The Megyn Kelly Show - Robert O'Neill on Killing Bin Laden, Life Lessons from SEAL Training, and American Unity

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.960 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.400 We have an amazing, amazing show for you today.

00:00:18.960 I am honored to bring you Rob O'Neill, better known as the man who shot Osama bin Laden.

00:00:24.800 Now retired U.S. Navy SEAL, author of a book called The Operator, which was published in 2017, which I highly recommend to you.

00:00:34.180 And American Hero, truly an American hero.

00:00:36.760 That term gets overused, in my opinion, in today's day and age, but this is the real deal.

00:00:42.620 And we thought, what better way to mark and honor Memorial Day than to have a real-life American hero on taking us through some of the most incredible feats of bravery that you'll ever hear about.

00:00:55.640 And it's not just the raid on the bin Laden compound and what happened that night.

00:00:59.780 When you hear what Rob O'Neill and his fellow SEALs have been involved in and the things that he's seen and done, you'll have enormous respect for him.

00:01:07.160 It will make you want to try harder as a human being.

00:01:10.040 And that's the appropriate way to be feeling on Memorial Day, right?

00:01:13.500 I think for too many of us, just a three-day weekend, it's, you know, an extra day off, and it's the kickoff to summer, and we have barbecues, and we have drinks, and, you know, we sort of go about our business.

00:01:23.140 We see a lot of American flags, but do we really stop and think about what it means?

00:01:28.100 Well, we need to.

00:01:29.360 It's about respecting and honoring those who have died while serving our country or thereafter.

00:01:35.520 It's something you can mark, you can go, you can lay flowers at a veterans ceremony or a cemetery, or you can take a moment to educate your kids on what we're doing.

00:01:46.160 What does this day mean?

00:01:47.440 There's a national moment of remembrance everywhere at 3 p.m., whatever your local time is, at 3 p.m. on Memorial Day, just take a minute and take one minute of silence and think about the heroes who made such incredible sacrifices to make this world a safer place for you, for me, for our kids.

00:02:09.340 The strong, the brave, the heroic, who gave everything for us.

00:02:14.640 You know, you go about your daily life, and you don't think about them, and you don't think about the gold star families who bear the scars of those sacrifices.

00:02:21.840 So it's a day, yes, to celebrate those who are brave enough to join our military and who took these risks to celebrate their lives, but it's also a day of somber reflection, a day for profound gratitude.

00:02:35.620 And if you're not feeling that when you listen to Rob O'Neill, then I can't help you.

00:02:41.060 I can't help you.

00:02:42.900 You know, we played a soundbite from Ronald Reagan on Friday talking about the meaning of Memorial Day, and one of the things he said was, freedom is not bought cheaply.

00:02:52.480 And that is 100% true.

00:02:54.420 It's the thing that we should be thinking about on a day like this, and it's something Rob O'Neill has seen firsthand.

00:03:01.760 Proud to bring him to you.

00:03:03.600 60 seconds away.

00:03:05.620 Rob, how are you?

00:03:13.000 I'm doing very well.

00:03:13.980 How are you doing?

00:03:15.100 I'm great, and it is an honor to talk to you this Memorial Day.

00:03:19.080 You are the perfect person, and I'm delighted that you've given us this time this day.

00:03:23.640 Thank you.

00:03:24.720 That means the world to me.

00:03:25.700 Thank you.

00:03:26.040 I'm very excited to talk to you.

00:03:27.520 Oh, so here's something I didn't know about Rob O'Neill.

00:03:32.440 Even though I've interviewed you before, I know your story, I'm totally impressed by you, like most sane Americans.

00:03:38.140 I did not know, I guess I knew at one point but forgot, that you were from Butte, Montana, where we actually were for part of the quarantine last year during coronavirus.

00:03:47.880 I had no idea you were in Butte, Montana for the quarantine.

00:03:51.240 I was not.

00:03:51.940 I was in Tennessee.

00:03:52.640 But, yeah, I was actually just in Butte, Montana last week for a golfing event for some friends of mine.

00:04:00.020 And Butte, Montana in the summer, you really can't beat it.

00:04:02.900 The weather there is gorgeous.

00:04:03.860 The people are good.

00:04:04.600 The food is really good.

00:04:05.340 The only issue with the food is they have a tendency to cover everything in gravy.

00:04:09.620 So it's not best for physiques, but everything's wonderful.

00:04:13.280 I was going to say, you say that like it's a bad thing.

00:04:16.440 No, well, even when I'm in like New York City or anything, like at breakfast, I'll order hashbrows and ask for gravy and the diner will say, why would we have gravy?

00:04:24.000 Like, potatoes and gravy, what are we in, China?

00:04:28.000 Why not, madam?

00:04:29.380 Yeah, so we were out in Big Sky for most of it.

00:04:34.060 And then, you know, two months into it, it was like, OK, we got nothing to do.

00:04:36.700 We haven't seen humans.

00:04:38.100 And somebody recommended that we go to Butte, which, as you know, is totally open air and has this amazing playground, which they were recommending for our kids.

00:04:47.060 And has the mining museum, which had opened up by the time we went.

00:04:51.940 I think it was in May by the time we went to Butte.

00:04:54.440 And so we went into the mine and we got the tour and we had some great food and we played at the playground.

00:05:01.000 And it was such a special day.

00:05:03.000 And all three of my kids absolutely loved it.

00:05:05.040 But especially at that time, my then six-year-old, because, of course, he spent the whole day that day and thereafter telling everybody he was going to Butte, which doesn't take much.

00:05:16.240 Yeah, we've heard that one before.

00:05:18.620 The mining museum is incredible, too.

00:05:20.960 I'll still take the tour.

00:05:21.940 I grew up there the first 19 years of my life.

00:05:24.660 And just going up there and seeing what the miners did, how they lived.

00:05:29.200 My grandfather was a miner and how he – it was like 12 hours on, 12 hours off, a mile below the surface.

00:05:36.240 And he always would say, like, you only need two pairs of pants and two shirts.

00:05:40.320 You know, we would wear one in the mine and then just getting clean and he'd come back up, get some sleep, switch it out, go back into the mine.

00:05:45.200 But just to hear the stories of the work that they used to do and everything from the copper, the gold, the molybdenum to the ghost stories to all the stories about the red light district and then the birth of the pork chop sandwich and all that.

00:05:58.980 It's a wonderful city.

00:06:00.240 It was awesome.

00:06:02.240 It is a day that we will never forget.

00:06:03.540 It was one of the highlights of our entire year and I recommend it to everybody.

00:06:07.160 And just the people are so nice and beautiful.

00:06:09.300 It's just a different way of living out there.

00:06:11.380 Just sort of – I don't know.

00:06:12.760 I don't want to say good, clean living because that assumes too much, but just open air, you know, respect your country, love the flag, do your duty, go to work, don't complain.

00:06:24.360 It's just – I don't know.

00:06:25.680 It's sort of old school and I love that.

00:06:27.740 And that's how you grew up.

00:06:29.880 That is.

00:06:31.240 And, Megan, I've got to be honest.

00:06:32.600 You're the first person I've ever heard in my life say that the highlight of the trip to Montana was beautiful.

00:06:37.300 It was.

00:06:38.140 It was great.

00:06:38.960 We have all the pictures of us in the hard hats with the lighting, you know, the lights on our foreheads and going down under and seeing how dark it is and learning about, you know, what happened, even with the animals that they said that – I think it was donkeys or – it was donkey.

00:06:52.720 I think it was donkeys.

00:06:53.600 That they would keep in there to help.

00:06:54.660 I think it was donkeys, yeah.

00:06:55.200 Yeah, and they would go blind because they were underground all the time.

00:06:59.320 I'm getting a nod from my chief of staff, Chris Kelly, who – you actually met her.

00:07:04.740 She's also my sister.

00:07:05.660 She's in Butte, Montana right now.

00:07:06.880 Yes.

00:07:07.080 She's up there.

00:07:07.540 When you came on the telephone.

00:07:08.300 Yes.

00:07:09.140 That's right.

00:07:09.860 Yeah.

00:07:10.160 Very cool.

00:07:11.980 Please tell her I said hello.

00:07:14.120 She can hear you.

00:07:15.540 She's blushing right now.

00:07:16.500 She's a big fan.

00:07:17.280 She's a fan of mine, too, so don't worry about it.

00:07:19.160 I talk to her every day, so she gets starstruck once a day, so don't worry about it.

00:07:24.060 So the two of you grow up out there, and you did not have helicopter parents.

00:07:28.520 This does not surprise me.

00:07:29.620 None of us really did back then.

00:07:30.920 How old are you now, Rob?

00:07:32.560 I just turned 45.

00:07:34.880 Okay.

00:07:35.160 Yeah, so you're five years younger than I am, but nobody in the 70s or 80s grew up with helicopter parents.

00:07:39.980 And even though your parents weren't helicopter-y, you write in your book about how your mom did worry about you.

00:07:46.420 I mean, there's all sorts of ways you can get in trouble in the great outdoors, especially in Montana.

00:07:50.060 And you were out there learning to shoot with your dad, hunting and so on, so it comes back later.

00:07:55.720 But your mom, she did keep an eye on you.

00:07:57.760 She did worry for your safety.

00:08:00.520 Yeah, she was good, too.

00:08:01.540 And speaking of helicopter parents, I remember, as opposed to getting a group text message,

00:08:06.740 you could tell everyone was where all the bikes were crashed in the front yard.

00:08:10.380 And you could go out back and drink out of the hose.

00:08:13.220 That's our bottled water.

00:08:14.620 And then when the streetlights come on, everybody has to go in.

00:08:17.240 That's it.

00:08:17.940 And we're all fine.

00:08:19.020 I think a couple of cuts and bruises and scrapes and the occasional fight in the back alley makes you a better person

00:08:26.000 because you learn from adversity and from losing.

00:08:29.840 It's the whole, you know, I've never lost.

00:08:32.180 I've either won or I've learned type thing.

00:08:34.040 And, you know, you've got your kids with you right now.

00:08:37.320 I have my children, too.

00:08:38.320 And, you know, we're all trying to do the right thing, but there's nothing wrong with not wearing a helmet everywhere

00:08:42.700 and occasionally falling in a mud puddle.

00:08:45.220 Oh, my gosh, it's crazy.

00:08:46.400 We never wore helmets.

00:08:47.340 Biking?

00:08:47.780 Never.

00:08:48.160 Skiing?

00:08:48.620 Never.

00:08:49.020 I mean, it was just never even wore a seatbelt.

00:08:51.240 I mean, my parents stuffed us into a VW Bug, all three kids and two parents and a dog.

00:08:55.600 No one had a seatbelt on and both parents were smoking with the windows up.

00:08:58.380 It's like they were trying to hurt us.

00:09:01.840 If you had a bigger a bigger sedan, you could fit the little carrier, the baby in the back window.

00:09:07.400 She's fine.

00:09:08.000 Right.

00:09:08.180 That's my my younger sister, Kelly.

00:09:10.100 She's in there.

00:09:11.500 Exactly.

00:09:11.860 And then we moved up to sort of the big wagon, you know, the sort of Chevy Chase vacation family truckster.

00:09:17.920 Oh, yeah.

00:09:18.400 And you could sit in the way back.

00:09:21.060 It was like, God forbid there was that you were rear ended.

00:09:23.220 I mean, all all of the children be instantly gone.

00:09:26.340 No one thought about it.

00:09:27.480 I'm pretty sure I'm surprised there wasn't like an autopilot for the guy driving the van to go back and make a cocktail or something like that.

00:09:34.420 Just the way it went.

00:09:35.900 It's not autopilot.

00:09:36.760 Maybe we need to bring that back.

00:09:40.760 So.

00:09:41.140 All right.

00:09:41.860 I think it's interesting in your history because this is sort of true of Scott Kelly, the astronaut.

00:09:46.560 You know, he he talks openly about how if you look at how he did in school, if you look at his early childhood and even later childhood in college, you would not have predicted this guy's going to go on to become a famous astronaut.

00:09:57.020 Right.

00:09:58.800 You.

00:10:00.140 I would say it's fair to say it was not totally clear.

00:10:02.700 You were destined to become a historical figure because before you joined the SEALs, tell us what your job was.

00:10:10.480 I well, I had a few jobs right before I left.

00:10:13.340 I was a miner.

00:10:14.220 I worked at Montana Resources and by mining because it is a mining town.

00:10:17.400 I mean, I was the guy that was smart enough to go in, use a shovel and put the the silt back on the conveyor belt.

00:10:23.000 That was pretty much it for that.

00:10:24.780 I did I did did odd jobs like delivered pizzas, worked at a furniture store.

00:10:28.740 But one of my favorite jobs is actually I worked at McDonald's.

00:10:32.700 Oh, awesome.

00:10:33.780 And I heard you were delivering taco pizzas and I was like, I did.

00:10:37.480 I did.

00:10:37.740 I did.

00:10:38.180 I delivered taco pizzas from the Boo Villa, which I think it's still open.

00:10:42.040 I drove past it last week and the taco pizzas were incredible.

00:10:44.780 We were just a bunch of college kids that invented a, you know, regular sauce and the ground beef.

00:10:50.460 And then you put on lettuce and cheese.

00:10:52.080 It's like it's ranch dressing or sour cream.

00:10:53.820 We called it a taco pizza.

00:10:55.240 So that was.

00:10:55.520 Yeah, that was my job.

00:10:56.380 It was.

00:10:56.480 Yeah, but I was I mean, I still know my way around the small town because of that job.

00:11:00.980 So I like this, though, because, you know, you can.

00:11:03.660 And how old were you at that point?

00:11:05.060 Right before you joined the SEALs?

00:11:06.720 About 17.

00:11:08.500 Yeah.

00:11:08.680 So you go through your first 17 years of life and it's not like, oh, you know, it is as it is with some people like, oh, yeah.

00:11:14.360 Oh, he's going to go on.

00:11:15.400 He's got an amazing future guaranteed.

00:11:18.900 No, no.

00:11:19.380 It was I even when I told people I was joining the military, which was very, very quick when they found out because I became I joined the Navy on accident.

00:11:27.740 I wanted to be a Marine.

00:11:28.860 But when they found out I was trying to be a SEAL, there was there was no way because I was never a tough guy growing up.

00:11:34.180 I was I was more of I had a sense of humor, which which eventually helped me do a lot of the things I did, because you need to if you lose your sense of humor, if your mind goes, your body's going to follow.

00:11:43.980 But, you know, when when people found out I was trying to be a SEAL, that was one of those things where, well, you're never going to make it that nobody ever makes it to that.

00:11:50.620 And especially being from landlocked Montana, where I don't think I'd ever been in the ocean.

00:11:54.980 I didn't really I could keep myself alive in the water, but I didn't know any techniques.

00:11:59.320 I didn't really know how to swim when I joined.

00:12:00.800 So it was one of those one one foot at a time.

00:12:04.340 Positive attitude will get you a lot further if you just, you know, just do it that way.

00:12:08.580 So it was because I was I was actually playing basketball at Montana Tech, which is the small college in Butte and just had a bad relationship.

00:12:16.800 And it was time to leave town.

00:12:17.880 And I just I was never going to be in the military.

00:12:20.160 I love military movies, but I was never going to join.

00:12:23.020 And all of a sudden I joined one day.

00:12:25.800 I love this because I read that you had a bad breakup and you were kind of, you know, like the sad dog who can't let go of the bone.

00:12:32.380 You kept following her around.

00:12:33.500 And finally, her dad gently escorted you out of their house.

00:12:37.340 You're not at your strongest.

00:12:39.440 No, you've known again for good food, for a little bit of a drink.

00:12:43.300 And I did have a cocktail one night.

00:12:44.820 I decided to walk in to have a word with my ex-girlfriend and her her dad, who he he wasn't a minor.

00:12:50.400 He actually had a tougher job used to move houses.

00:12:53.360 And when he woke up and found my he I was very, very fortunate.

00:12:56.960 He just escorted me out, politely let me know this is not a good idea as opposed to just, you know, doing what he could have done to me.

00:13:03.540 But, yeah, that was it.

00:13:04.600 And it was it was more of and I tell people this now, if you have a if you're having such a bad time, don't do anything drastic.

00:13:10.760 Just go on an adventure.

00:13:12.640 And for me, it was I can I can leave tomorrow.

00:13:15.360 I can go in, sign up and they'll put me on a plane and I can be like I said, I wanted to join the Marine Corps.

00:13:21.600 So I'll be in either San Diego Recruit Depot or Parris Island.

00:13:25.180 And that was it.

00:13:26.180 And and I went to be a Marine.

00:13:27.720 I thought it was awesome.

00:13:28.520 Like I said, I like movies.

00:13:29.620 I love full metal jacket.

00:13:31.240 That just looks cool.

00:13:32.200 And, you know, it looks so hard Marine Corps boot camp that I'll forget about all that dumb stuff back in Montana.

00:13:38.520 And that was it.

00:13:39.380 And I went to I went in to join the Marine Corps and the Marine wasn't there.

00:13:43.240 I mean, that changed history, honestly, in a way that that moment changed history.

00:13:48.580 It certainly changed your own history, your destiny at that moment.

00:13:52.260 And it was this it was being a naive, either 18 or I think 19 year old.

00:13:58.100 I the reason I went in to see the Navy guy was because two guys that I knew, Ben and Jim, that wanted to be Marines, that became Marines, that were two years older than me.

00:14:08.160 They went through through high school with my older sister, Chris, who's who's here now.

00:14:11.960 Now, they always wanted to be Marines.

00:14:14.040 And when they came home, they looked like Marines.

00:14:16.260 But they did tell me a joke.

00:14:18.460 They said, you might not know this, but the Marine Corps is actually part of the Department of the Navy.

00:14:23.120 It's just the men's department.

00:14:25.600 And that's why I went into the Navy office, because I figured he would if anyone's going to know where the Marine is, he will.

00:14:30.920 And he's the Marine or the Navy recruiter said, why do you want the Marine?

00:14:34.200 I said, I want to be a sniper.

00:14:35.040 And he said, look no further.

00:14:36.740 We have snipers in the Navy.

00:14:38.080 You need to become a SEAL first.

00:14:39.640 But after that, no big deal.

00:14:40.700 I'll send you to the sniper school, which was kind of the truth.

00:14:42.980 But he left a lot out.

00:14:45.060 And did not say, are you a good swimmer?

00:14:47.680 No, he didn't even care.

00:14:48.680 Well, I was standing over him.

00:14:51.040 And I thought, you know, I'm kind of naive.

00:14:52.740 But this guy's a professional recruiter.

00:14:54.260 Why is he going to lie to me?

00:14:56.200 And he said, he's just filling a quota.

00:14:58.380 I mean, why wouldn't he?

00:15:00.300 Being a recruiter in Montana, it's a lot easier to recruit for the Army or the Marines than the Navy.

00:15:05.360 So he's just trying to get guys in there.

00:15:06.860 And I signed.

00:15:08.000 And then he actually showed me a video.

00:15:09.400 And I was like, well, OK, I better learn.

00:15:11.960 I have five months before they ship me out.

00:15:13.800 I thought I was going to leave that day.

00:15:15.220 But they put me in what's called the delayed entry program.

00:15:18.260 And so I had five months to kind of what I would do with my time is try to get in shape, learn customs and courtesies of the Navy.

00:15:25.520 And then there was a pool at the college where I still had a student ID.

00:15:29.140 And I was like, well, I guess I can learn how to swim now.

00:15:31.940 Wow.

00:15:32.700 So you ship off for, is it called boot camp or basic training?

00:15:36.580 Yeah, it's boot camp in the Navy.

00:15:38.380 And that was in, I went January 96 to Great Lakes, Illinois, right outside of Chicago.

00:15:44.280 And that's where, is that where the 1,000 push-ups a day were and 1,000 sit-ups a day and all the craziness?

00:15:49.760 No, no, that was just boot camp for Navy.

00:15:51.580 So I'm in there with guys from all over the country.

00:15:56.580 And it was everyone, what I learned the first few days in the Navy, just the Navy, was it doesn't matter what you look like or where you're from.

00:16:06.680 Everyone's had their first day, whether you're the CEO of a company or the guy going through Bin Laden's bedroom.

00:16:11.920 We've all had our very first day somewhere, and we've all been afraid, and that's OK.

00:16:15.320 And it was weather, you know, we had guys in there getting out of South Central, leaving the gangs, guys from Long Island, guys from South Florida, and, you know, me from Montana.

00:16:25.900 And we're all there to be in the Navy.

00:16:28.280 And we learned Navy stuff, how to, you know, how to march, how to fold clothes, how to live on a ship.

00:16:33.980 But from there, I did need to take a test there to make it into SEAL training.

00:16:39.900 And from there, they sent me to Coronado.

00:16:41.840 And Coronado is where basic underwater demolition SEAL training is.

00:16:45.200 And that's where all the push-ups and all the hard stuff, the 75% to 80% of every class doesn't make it through.

00:16:51.680 And that's all before Hell Week, where you're getting tied up and thrown into the pool.

00:16:55.920 This is before Hell Week.

00:16:56.860 Yeah, there's three phases of SEAL training.

00:17:01.260 The first, I love how they label them.

00:17:03.220 The first phase, I want to say, is about nine weeks, nine to 11 weeks.

00:17:07.660 And then they call it physical training, which means they're just pounding you.

00:17:10.460 And it's a thousand push-ups a day, a thousand sit-ups a day, a thousand flutter kicks a day, tying you up, throwing you into pools, two-mile ocean swims.

00:17:18.260 From where we would get beat up, it was a mile to the chow hall.

00:17:21.960 So you get to run six miles a day every day just to eat meals, log workouts, hundreds and hundreds of pull-ups.

00:17:30.360 That's the first part.

00:17:31.700 And when I went through, I want to say the fifth week in was Hell Week.

00:17:35.800 And Hell Week is where you wake up on Sunday and don't sleep until Friday.

00:17:41.900 And you're training around the clock, over and over, carrying heavy boats on their heads.

00:17:49.060 They keep us in groups of seven just to realize if one person in the team doesn't give their effort, it's going to hurt everyone else.

00:17:55.560 It's teaching you teamwork through negative reinforcement.

00:17:58.760 But this is where the mindset came in.

00:18:01.780 When we first got there, we didn't really know what to do because boot camp is very structured.

00:18:07.600 There's people following you around and yelling at you, telling you where to go.

00:18:10.140 This one, SEAL training, they need your class to already know how many people are there, how many people you're missing, and be at the 5 a.m. workout on time.

00:18:18.240 So it's very confusing.

00:18:19.520 And they brought us into a room the very first day, and this instructor said, I know you've seen the movies and read some of the books, regardless of what you've been told.

00:18:29.200 However, this course is not impossible.

00:18:32.000 People graduate.

00:18:33.000 Look at me.

00:18:33.640 I'm living proof, so I'll never ask you to do anything impossible.

00:18:36.580 But I will make you do something very hard, followed by something very hard, followed by something very hard, day after day after day for eight straight months.

00:18:43.720 And that sounds like a lot to get from now to eight months from now.

00:18:46.940 But don't think about it that way because that's not how you achieve a long-term goal.

00:18:50.700 I want you to do it like this.

00:18:52.420 Wake up in the morning on time.

00:18:53.820 Make your bed the right way and then brush your teeth.

00:18:56.280 You just started off the day with three little victories.

00:18:59.000 Make it to the 5 a.m. workout on time.

00:19:01.140 And as we're beating you up, don't concentrate on the pain.

00:19:03.560 Think about your next goal in life, which is breakfast.

00:19:06.440 After breakfast, make it to lunch.

00:19:07.760 After lunch, make it to dinner.

00:19:08.960 After dinner, do everything you need to do to get back inside that perfectly made bed.

00:19:13.460 And because you took the time in the morning to make your bed the right way, regardless of how bad today was, and it will be bad, tomorrow's a clean slate.

00:19:22.160 Tomorrow's a fresh start.

00:19:23.120 And when you feel like quitting, which you will, do not quit right now.

00:19:26.900 That's your emotion.

00:19:28.060 Quit tomorrow.

00:19:29.400 If you can keep quitting tomorrow, you can do anything in life.

00:19:32.220 And that turned out, I mean, that's great advice for SEAL training, but that's great advice for life.

00:19:36.080 One meal at a time.

00:19:37.480 And that's it.

00:19:38.240 And that's how simple it was.

00:19:38.960 And then we got to the SEAL training part.

00:19:41.420 And I mean, these instructors, if you just pay attention to the life goals they're giving you.

00:19:45.400 So the Hell Week, I mentioned, you don't go to your bed.

00:19:47.960 You just go through the entire week without sleeping.

00:19:50.340 He said, you're about to go to, right before it started, he said, you're about to go to war for the first time.

00:19:55.560 And the enemy is all your doubts, all your fears, and everyone you know back home that told you, you weren't good enough to do this.

00:20:02.340 Keep your head down.

00:20:03.040 Keep moving forward.

00:20:04.000 No matter what, never quit, and you'll be fine.

00:20:06.640 It's kind of like the time heals everything.

00:20:08.220 So that was the mindset of getting through the first part of SEAL training.

00:20:11.380 My gosh, because I'm glad you explained that about, you know, the seven guys and how everybody relies on each other.

00:20:18.320 Because one of the things I think when I look at this is I know we need tough guys in our military, but I think, why is this insanity necessary?

00:20:24.380 Why must we beat them to hell in order to make them SEALs?

00:20:29.140 I think it's to the realization that you can convince your body through your mind to do anything.

00:20:38.180 And even, and it was, you know, because I went through before 9-11, and it was more of just a badge of honor that I went through SEAL training.

00:20:45.600 But then, you know, as I was SEAL team too, one of the SEAL teams, and then 9-11, when we were on the mountain, and I'll back up in a minute, but I do jump around.

00:20:53.520 When we were on the mountain to rescue the lone survivor in 2005, Marcus Luttrell, we'd been away, you know, we were awake for a few days.

00:20:59.220 We're on top of a mountain in Konar province.

00:21:01.600 And I remember looking at one of my guys and saying, this is why training is so hard.

00:21:07.380 Because if we were going to quit right now, where are we going to go?

00:21:11.060 We're just here.

00:21:12.000 And that's it.

00:21:12.900 So that was a mindset that we carried into it years later.

00:21:15.760 But that's why the training is so important.

00:21:17.720 Is it the hardy?

00:21:18.760 I'm not a big on cliches, but they do say the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war.

00:21:25.220 I like that.

00:21:26.660 I think that makes sense.

00:21:27.520 I mean, I know nothing but just listening to the stories and reading them.

00:21:33.020 I heard you tell the story about how you just, and I've heard this from others as well, like Jocko Willink was on, saying you just, the key to surviving boot camp and BUDS, the extra crazy training and Hell Week is just, you just can't quit.

00:21:50.480 You don't have to be the most extraordinary person.

00:21:52.320 You don't have to be the strongest.

00:21:53.100 You don't have to be the fastest.

00:21:53.840 You just have to be the guy who just refuses to quit.

00:21:58.340 And you talked about how there was one guy in your unit who put quitting in perspective for you when looking at this quitting bell and the helmets of the guys who had chosen to leave.

00:22:10.340 The famous way, one of the famous things about SEAL training is we all wear a helmet on our head.

00:22:16.060 And it looks like an old school Army helmet, like maybe from the 40s.

00:22:20.820 And the two things on there is, on the front and back is your last name, and then on the side is your class number.

00:22:27.600 And SEAL training started at 1, and it went up.

00:22:30.560 My class was 2-0-8, and I think they're right around 3-40 right now.

00:22:35.120 But there's a bell that all you need to do to make them – the only thing easy to do at SEAL training is quit.

00:22:42.360 They make it easy.

00:22:43.860 They encourage it.

00:22:45.540 All you got to do is go to a bell, ring it three times, and then you put your helmet down.

00:22:50.440 There's a line of helmets to go from the bell, and it stretches down what we call the grinder, which is an outdoor concrete slab.

00:22:57.240 And you just put it in line.

00:22:58.220 It's called the quitters line.

00:22:59.100 And I remember thinking – because people always ask, did you ever think about quitting?

00:23:03.880 I'm like, yes, every second I thought about quitting.

00:23:06.320 But there's no way in hell I'm going to ring that bell and put a helmet with my father's name on it in a quitters line.

00:23:12.300 And just little things like that that you can talk yourself through it.

00:23:15.360 And, again, it's a lot of mental – it's very physical, but it's a lot of mental.

00:23:19.900 And some of the mentality is talking yourself through the pain because the pain will end.

00:23:24.440 But your legacy is forever.

00:23:26.780 Your pride is forever.

00:23:29.460 I love that.

00:23:31.220 I mean, I think that's – that would do it.

00:23:33.780 Like the shame, you don't want to bring shame on your family name, on yourself.

00:23:37.540 You're in this thing with your brothers.

00:23:38.840 But it's just so physically challenging and mentally challenging that – what are the numbers again?

00:23:44.200 How many people leave versus how many people who make it through?

00:23:47.220 It's about 75% to 80% fail or quit or get thrown out or – there's a myriad of ways to get out.

00:23:54.940 But the majority of people quit, although they'll never admit it.

00:23:59.040 Most people will say, well, the instructors didn't like me or blah, blah, blah.

00:24:02.080 They'll make up excuses.

00:24:04.200 And, you know, if you showed up and quit, that's fine.

00:24:07.120 I mean, good on you.

00:24:07.700 You tried.

00:24:08.120 You admitted it.

00:24:08.440 It was too hard.

00:24:09.240 That's great.

00:24:09.940 You know, you don't need to make excuses.

00:24:11.180 I actually – I had a story when I deployed before 9-11 on a ship as a Navy SEAL.

00:24:17.260 And I was eating one of the meals in the chow hall.

00:24:19.960 And I was sitting there in my camouflage uniform.

00:24:22.000 I had my trident, which is the insignia for Naval Special Warfare.

00:24:24.860 And a sailor came up to me and he sat at my table.

00:24:27.340 And he said, huh, you know, I went to SEAL training.

00:24:29.460 I said, you did?

00:24:30.680 He goes, yeah, I didn't make it.

00:24:31.560 I said, what happened?

00:24:32.080 He goes, I quit.

00:24:33.200 I was like, really?

00:24:34.360 You quit, huh?

00:24:35.380 Why is that?

00:24:35.920 And he goes, I don't know.

00:24:36.820 I lost my hoo-yah, I guess.

00:24:38.300 I don't know.

00:24:39.580 Okay.

00:24:40.600 That's fair.

00:24:41.820 Oh, my God.

00:24:42.240 That happened to me, too, in college.

00:24:43.960 And then I had to go confess it to the priest.

00:24:46.880 Okay.

00:24:47.480 So you make it through.

00:24:51.220 You mentioned Jocko Willink.

00:24:52.580 You know, he and I have roommates for a while.

00:24:54.880 Oh, is that right?

00:24:56.000 And just for the record, he is that tough in person.

00:25:00.200 I'm not surprised.

00:25:01.080 I follow him on Twitter, and you get these little updates on how it's pictures of his

00:25:06.100 military watch showing 430.

00:25:08.720 Yeah, what time it is.

00:25:09.480 Brute force.

00:25:10.480 You know, he's up working out.

00:25:12.180 Oh, yeah.

00:25:12.280 And I'm like, oh, my God.

00:25:13.100 Go to sleep, Jocko.

00:25:14.380 I have my followers that say, yeah, I'm doing the Jocko Willink workout.

00:25:17.680 I'm like, you realize he's like a top 1% of humanity.

00:25:20.860 It's going to kill you.

00:25:22.520 I'm like, he can do it.

00:25:24.460 He can, and you cannot, sir.

00:25:26.780 So you finish it up.

00:25:28.000 You make it through.

00:25:29.040 And then that's not enough.

00:25:29.840 You decide to go to sniper school because, of course, back to your original point, this

00:25:33.020 is what you really wanted to do.

00:25:34.440 And it turns out you're pretty good at that.

00:25:35.800 You had a pretty good aim.

00:25:37.760 I got good at that.

00:25:38.720 And that was, again, just because of hunting in Montana with my father.

00:25:44.420 We actually graduated because we learned how to hunt together.

00:25:46.600 The same thing, like everything in life, we didn't know how to do any of it.

00:25:49.400 We kind of learned as we went.

00:25:50.960 And so we started buying a long range rifle and I ended up, he ended up buying me a 300

00:25:54.980 Winchester Magnum that I used to hunt elk.

00:25:57.160 And that eventually was the same sniper rifle.

00:25:59.840 And just growing up hunting, I was interested in ballistics.

00:26:03.720 Where does a bullet go?

00:26:04.640 I know it doesn't go straight.

00:26:06.020 It goes up and down like a football.

00:26:07.320 What range do we do this?

00:26:08.520 How does the wind affect it?

00:26:09.540 So by the time I got the marksmanship, I'd shot before.

00:26:12.500 They did send me to sniper school and that turned into just a great school for camouflage,

00:26:17.360 for ballistics, for learning how to spot.

00:26:19.480 So I went through that in 1998, I want to say.

00:26:22.340 So I finished SEAL training and sniper school before I even went overseas for the first time.

00:26:28.000 And this is all before 9-11.

00:26:29.760 Just to keep in mind, we weren't actively involved in that conflict yet, which would dominate the

00:26:34.680 next decade plus of your life.

00:26:36.820 So you're getting your training.

00:26:38.280 You get married.

00:26:39.100 You have two young children.

00:26:41.720 And what year did you get married?

00:26:43.940 I actually got married in 2004.

00:26:46.580 So I was deploying.

00:26:48.560 We were dating a little bit.

00:26:49.520 And then we got married as I was going through selection for SEAL Team 6, which is the Tier

00:26:54.040 1 counterterror unit.

00:26:56.040 But they were my daughter.

00:26:56.960 So my daughters were born after 9-11, and they've known everything.

00:27:01.560 I don't talk a lot about them, but they know everything.

00:27:05.920 They've been involved the entire thing.

00:27:07.180 And it's crazy.

00:27:09.000 So I have the mindset to get through stuff.

00:27:11.120 And then I have the emotional attachments to everything going on in the world because

00:27:14.200 of my children.

00:27:15.440 Because, I mean, you know, like anyone, the world is your children.

00:27:20.180 That's right.

00:27:20.980 And you had them as a SEAL knowing that you would be deployed and that you would be leaving

00:27:26.060 them for long periods of time and that every time you said goodbye could be the last time

00:27:30.180 that you laid eyes on each other.

00:27:32.260 That's true.

00:27:32.820 Yeah, we did.

00:27:33.460 I tell people, too, the hardest part of combat, because, you know, my first started as a SEAL,

00:27:38.180 it was more of a look at me, I'm cool, and they make movies about us, too.

00:27:40.960 We're going to war against al-Qaeda in Iraq, al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, ISIS.

00:27:45.760 And the hardest part about combat is not getting shot at or having stuff blow up, because

00:27:49.220 that's actually very easy.

00:27:50.320 The hardest part is kissing your kids goodbye for what could be the last time.

00:27:53.780 I'm realizing, looking at your daughter and realizing this could be it.

00:27:59.840 Coming up after this break, we're going to get into the first warriors in the fight against

00:28:04.320 Bin Laden, and that is the people who are on Flight 93 on the day of 9-11.

00:28:09.800 And to hear Rob talk about it, I can't tell you the number of times I got chills during this

00:28:16.020 interview, not just me, my whole team, many times in tears.

00:28:19.540 And he's just such an effective spokesperson for what we've been through as a country.

00:28:25.140 He lived it in a way very few did.

00:28:28.480 So anyway, we'll get into the beginning right after this break.

00:28:35.040 So you knew, you knew after 9-11 that you were going to be deployed.

00:28:39.720 I mean, you must have known.

00:28:40.500 And I know I've heard you and others make the point that those guys on Flight 93, that

00:28:47.480 they were the first warriors in the battle against Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden and in the war

00:28:53.460 that would come to dominate our country.

00:28:55.280 Yeah, we were.

00:28:56.660 I was actually deployed as a sniper in 2001 to Kosovo.

00:29:01.980 If you recall, there was a lot of bad stuff going on there with ethnic cleansing and we were

00:29:06.660 bombing and peacekeeping.

00:29:07.420 And they sent us in as snipers, not necessarily snipers, more of observers to make sure, you

00:29:12.280 know, we'd hide in the hills and make sure nothing was happening in the cities.

00:29:15.700 We weren't there to shoot, we were there to report.

00:29:18.060 And we got back.

00:29:18.740 So we were deploying out of Germany.

00:29:20.500 We have a unit there down to Kosovo.

00:29:22.160 And I'd gotten back from Kosovo and I was in Germany.

00:29:25.520 We'd got all our gear ready.

00:29:26.720 We're, you know, a couple of months into a deployment.

00:29:28.820 I was sending emails in an operations center when I heard breaking news behind me and the North

00:29:34.320 Tower had been hit by a plane.

00:29:35.600 And it's one of those kind of exciting, you turn around, well, what is, and they said,

00:29:39.020 yeah, a small plane just hit the North Tower.

00:29:40.680 And I said, well, that's a, that's a really wide tower.

00:29:43.700 That's a huge hole.

00:29:45.100 That's a, that's a clear day.

00:29:46.860 What's, that's not an accident.

00:29:48.100 And we're talking about a group of Navy SEALs.

00:29:50.320 And then we saw the South Tower explode.

00:29:52.760 Within 15 seconds, one of the guys said, Osama bin Laden, this is real war.

00:29:56.260 And so now we're, you know, just like everyone, complete chaos.

00:30:00.180 What, what, what are we going to do now?

00:30:01.660 Where do we go?

00:30:02.160 Do they know?

00:30:02.820 And then obviously flight 93, which stuck with me forever, what, what, what, um, because

00:30:07.540 we all know what happened with flight 93.

00:30:09.020 It was heading back to probably the Capitol and the terrorists let the passengers talk

00:30:14.300 to their families.

00:30:14.900 And they told them, this is, this is a suicide mission.

00:30:17.400 And what I love about 90, not love, but just what gives me goosebumps is they, they were

00:30:22.500 the first Americans to attack, to fight Al Qaeda.

00:30:25.480 And they did it because they voted, which is the backbone of this society.

00:30:30.800 They voted and then they fought.

00:30:32.760 And that's part of the reason that the reason that we, you know, especially up to the mission

00:30:37.300 to kill bin Laden, where we knew we were going to die too, but we're doing it for them

00:30:40.220 type thing.

00:30:40.660 Um, and it's, you know, that, that was where we went from, you know, the, my friend, Charlie

00:30:45.340 Sheen and that cool movie Navy SEALs to, okay, now we're going to the mountains and we're

00:30:48.220 fighting these guys and we're going to find them and we're going to kill them.

00:30:50.640 I got the chills too.

00:30:51.700 And you said that I, whenever I think about flight 93 and when my kids are old enough,

00:30:55.720 we're going to go there and we're going to see the memorial.

00:30:58.360 Um, I, it makes me proud to be an American.

00:31:00.740 I mean, the fact that these regular civilians who had not picked up arms, had not planned on

00:31:05.560 fighting, found a way to bring that plane down and to, to protect America.

00:31:10.660 I mean, think about, think about the emotional devastation, not to mention the loss of life

00:31:14.800 we would have suffered if they had, if they had dropped that plane into the Capitol, into

00:31:19.960 the Capitol.

00:31:21.120 Oh yeah.

00:31:21.820 I mean, it's, it's, it's amazing.

00:31:23.280 And just think about too, these are, these are families going on vacation, business people

00:31:27.640 going to the West coast.

00:31:28.680 They're not tactically savvy people, but they thought of what can we use?

00:31:33.020 They, they're taking off belts, boiling water in the galley.

00:31:36.020 Like they're thinking like warriors.

00:31:37.700 I'm just, I, again, I can't think about them and not have a tear in my eye and get goosebumps.

00:31:42.220 No, they, it's, I think they'd be so honored to know somebody like Todd Beamer that in any

00:31:47.420 way they inspired you, you know, because you, you picked up that same mission and how seal

00:31:52.000 missions.

00:31:52.540 Are they all classified?

00:31:54.000 That's what I read.

00:31:54.560 They're all classified.

00:31:55.900 Um, not really.

00:31:57.580 Uh, they, they, they fall under a certain blanket of classification, but there are very,

00:32:02.940 very few that, uh, well, you saw, I mean, the most secretive mission given a different

00:32:07.440 authority other than the military was all over the internet that night, which is the bin Laden

00:32:12.180 race.

00:32:12.320 So most of the, most of the missions that, that, that happened, um, uh, they don't say that's

00:32:17.320 very, very hard to keep toothpaste in the tube when they want to, people want to say what,

00:32:22.260 what other people didn't.

00:32:23.380 And, you know, president Biden, then vice president Biden got some, some flack for saying

00:32:27.640 seal team six.

00:32:28.400 And people have asked me, what do you think about that?

00:32:30.140 And I said, you know what?

00:32:30.640 I don't have a problem with that because he's letting our enemies know.

00:32:34.140 It doesn't matter where you are.

00:32:35.580 We will find you and we will send people to get you.

00:32:38.500 And that's, that's cool with me.

00:32:39.420 That's, that was the whole reason people don't even know this.

00:32:42.000 They always, that's why it was called seal team six.

00:32:44.900 The way they, the reason that Richard Marcinko, who was the commander that founded seal team

00:32:48.960 six named it seal team six, because at the time we had seal team one and seal team two

00:32:53.440 and he invented seal team six because the Russians would say, okay, there's one, two

00:32:57.460 and six, where the hell are three, four and five?

00:33:00.900 I like that.

00:33:02.120 I did not know that.

00:33:03.600 Oh yeah.

00:33:03.960 This is usually the point where I, I sat in my forehead and say, not just a hat rack.

00:33:10.260 That's crazy.

00:33:11.040 I did not know that either.

00:33:12.120 Well, the reason I ask is I heard that they're, that they're classified or at least many of them

00:33:15.660 are, but then I thought how many seals are involved in, in three missions that wind up

00:33:21.740 major motion pictures like you have been, right?

00:33:25.700 So let's just, let's, I want to say what we want.

00:33:28.440 I want to do, you know, what happened with bin Laden, but can we just start?

00:33:31.440 Cause you mentioned Marcus Luttrell and that, that turned into the lone survivor, a movie

00:33:35.300 back in June of 2005.

00:33:37.260 Can you just tell us how did you get involved in that?

00:33:39.880 And what did you do in, in that?

00:33:41.300 I, I, I happened, my, my wife actually called me the,

00:33:45.660 the luckiest unlucky man in the world.

00:33:48.300 It always seems like I'm in a predicament, but I get out of it for some weird reason.

00:33:51.900 And so I've just, I've just been, I've been there at the right place, right time.

00:33:56.500 And I tell people that too.

00:33:57.640 Now, just one of my favorite things is wherever you are, be there.

00:34:02.340 Meaning it could happen right now.

00:34:03.980 The stuff you worry about rarely happens.

00:34:07.200 It's, it's not, it's like, again, I don't mean to jump all over.

00:34:09.600 It's like a year or so ago, we're thinking about the South Carolina primaries.

00:34:13.680 Is who's going to be the, is it going to be Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders?

00:34:16.640 We're worried about the election.

00:34:17.920 Then Thursday night, we get hit with a pandemic.

00:34:20.000 You didn't see it coming.

00:34:21.400 But if you're there, you know, stuff can happen.

00:34:24.360 So I just happened to be in Afghanistan and a SEAL team, not six, a different team wanted

00:34:30.720 to, SEAL team 10 and then SEAL delivery vehicle team too.

00:34:32.960 They wanted to insert their snipers into the Korengal Valley, which is in the Konar province

00:34:38.900 to find a terrorist named Ahmad Shah.

00:34:42.040 They flew in there and it's in the movie Lone Survivor.

00:34:45.420 We weren't involved with that.

00:34:46.660 I was actually, I was living in a, in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, which is another, another completely

00:34:51.780 different story.

00:34:52.780 But I did see some of the guys at the airfield that we actually, some of us rode motorcycles

00:34:57.040 out to the airfield to see them.

00:34:58.120 They told us what was happening and, you know, we had words with them and then we left and

00:35:02.020 helped them to have a good fight.

00:35:03.240 We went back to our, what we call the safe house.

00:35:06.100 The sun came up and then one of the army guys came in and said, Hey, your, your boys just

00:35:10.320 got hit really, really hard that we lost the helicopter.

00:35:13.440 And so we were briefed on the story that the four snipers did get hit.

00:35:18.520 Three of them were killed.

00:35:19.820 They sent in two helicopters to get them.

00:35:22.500 One helicopter turbine, three, three was shot down and killed.

00:35:25.720 I want to say 18 soldiers.

00:35:27.740 Some of my friends that I just saw the night before were on that.

00:35:29.860 And then they told us now we're missing snipers.

00:35:32.160 We have a helicopter down.

00:35:33.320 You guys need to go up there and figure it out, but we're not going to fly you because

00:35:38.540 they're shooting helicopters down, figure it out.

00:35:40.820 And so we had to walk around and gather.

00:35:43.140 It wasn't, it wasn't like the base in Jalalabad that it is now.

00:35:46.800 It was ragtag people here and there.

00:35:48.520 So we gathered anyone we could find Marines.

00:35:51.620 We had Rangers, Green Berets, Air Force people.

00:35:54.320 And we actually walked into this tent and said, there was like, I think 20 Rangers in

00:35:58.800 there.

00:35:58.960 And we said, Hey, here's the situation.

00:36:00.340 I need at least five volunteers.

00:36:01.840 And all 20 dudes got up and they said, it normally takes us 10 minutes to get ready,

00:36:06.160 but we'll be outside in five.

00:36:07.880 And everyone went with us and we, we drove as far as we could.

00:36:10.680 And then we hiked when we could no longer drive and we hiked up the mountain.

00:36:15.720 We did run into some Taliban up there.

00:36:19.080 Some of my guys got to the crash site.

00:36:20.720 No one survived.

00:36:21.580 And a couple of days later, we were able to pinpoint where Marcus Luttrell was, went

00:36:26.800 back up the hill.

00:36:28.280 Some, some Rangers, I think flew in and helicopters and did pull them out.

00:36:31.400 Big team effort.

00:36:32.340 I make me proud to be part of that coalition.

00:36:34.180 Just, just seeing, you know, being a Navy SEAL team six operator, but looking at Marines

00:36:38.240 thinking, God, that guy is cool.

00:36:39.460 Look at that Marine is out here doing his thing.

00:36:41.820 So we got Marcus.

00:36:43.060 It was a tragic time, but we did get Marcus out.

00:36:46.540 And he's a, he's a good friend of mine, uh, just the epitome of what it is to have a will

00:36:50.900 to live because he was everything that he was down to, um, his, his back was broken.

00:36:56.060 He'd broken.

00:36:56.820 He'd been shot at shrapnel.

00:36:58.480 And I think I want to say his pants had been blown off by an RPG, which just to get in your

00:37:04.720 mentality, imagine being by yourself.

00:37:06.180 You're that thirsty.

00:37:07.280 Everyone's trying to kill you and you don't have pants.

00:37:09.360 I mean, where do you get morale?

00:37:11.060 Where do, how don't you just give up?

00:37:12.600 And he didn't, and he's alive now.

00:37:14.280 How, how long was he there?

00:37:17.620 Um, three or four days.

00:37:19.560 He was, he was out there and he did get picked up by some villagers, which says a lot about

00:37:23.700 the villagers too.

00:37:24.740 They have a, uh, uh, an ancient, uh, uh, not a saying, but a way of life called Pashtun

00:37:29.860 Wali, where if you ask them for help, they will, they will die.

00:37:33.480 They'll fight to the last man to help you.

00:37:34.820 And he asked for help and they helped him.

00:37:36.500 It's incredible.

00:37:36.820 Uh, so that was the first of so many, and let's flash forward to April of 2009.

00:37:43.400 It was your birthday, April 10th.

00:37:46.680 You tell us where you were when you got a message about something that was breaking that

00:37:51.460 it was, it was my daughter's, uh, it was good Friday, April 10th, my birthday.

00:37:57.180 And I was at my daughter's, uh, her preschool for an Easter tea party.

00:38:01.720 They're going to have a quick Easter tea party.

00:38:03.860 The parents come in, we give them cookies and stuff.

00:38:06.320 And then we stand around to have them sipped tea.

00:38:08.500 And we, I was bringing my, I had a pink plate and I'm bringing my daughter cupcakes and stuff.

00:38:13.540 And I'm walking over to her and she, um, I got a message and said that a guy by the name

00:38:18.420 of Captain Richard Phillips had been taken by Somali pirates and they're calling my team

00:38:22.360 to go get them now.

00:38:23.920 And, and by now they mean now.

00:38:25.480 And so there you are at the little tea party with the pink plate, this trained seal sniper.

00:38:32.080 I love it.

00:38:33.000 You know, it's like the seals, they're just like us.

00:38:35.700 Um, and, and tell us where you were 15 hours and 46 minutes later.

00:38:40.400 Yeah.

00:38:40.760 15 hours, 46 minutes later, we had a full head count of Navy seals in the Indian ocean.

00:38:44.500 And we had, uh, our boats, all the guys.

00:38:47.600 And a day and a half later on Easter Sunday, we rescued Richard Phillips with some shots of

00:38:52.160 our snipers.

00:38:52.620 And we did that because we were prepared.

00:38:53.880 And that's just something about, I was not one of the shooters on that mission, but we

00:38:59.660 didn't know what we were going to do anyway.

00:39:01.260 On the flight over, we had, you know, 15 hours to plan.

00:39:04.920 We, we thought we thought of anything, everything we never thought of in the history of seal

00:39:09.260 team six, um, a fully engulfed orange lifeboat being towed by a Navy destroyer.

00:39:14.200 So on the flight over, we're, we told everyone, let me, let me, let me pause you there just

00:39:19.320 cause I want to get the audience up to speed.

00:39:20.700 Cause it's been a while since that, that happened.

00:39:22.480 Uh, and there was a movie about this too, but so what happened was there was, um, in the

00:39:27.700 Indian ocean, uh, off the coast of Somalia, which is on the Northeast coast of Africa.

00:39:31.000 Uh, they, this group of pirates, Somali pirates had, had captured the Maersk, right?

00:39:37.900 Was it the Maersk?

00:39:39.120 The Maersk, Alabama, which was a U S cargo ship.

00:39:43.400 I'm trying to remember my facts.

00:39:44.940 It's a cargo ship.

00:39:46.140 Yeah.

00:39:46.320 It's from, it's from Virginia.

00:39:47.600 Yes.

00:39:48.180 Okay.

00:39:48.440 So it's ours.

00:39:49.060 So we got to go help our guys out.

00:39:50.660 We got to defend it and we're not going to let it be taken by a bunch of pirates.

00:39:53.760 And then this sort of lifeboat, this smaller, it, to me, the boat that they wound up in,

00:39:59.280 uh, which was, it wasn't the actual Maersk.

00:40:01.620 It was like this sort of lifeboat off of it.

00:40:03.200 It looks just like the little tugboat you get for your kids and you put in the bathtub.

00:40:06.480 I mean, it looked a lot like that thing.

00:40:08.340 And they've got captain Phillips on it.

00:40:10.400 They've got our American captain Richard Phillips on it.

00:40:13.280 He's their hostage.

00:40:14.540 And that's when the seals came in.

00:40:16.660 So I don't know.

00:40:17.520 I'm amazed that you're on the airplane over there and you don't, I mean, in my mind, there's

00:40:22.060 some admiral who's like, this is exactly what you're going to do when we get there.

00:40:24.960 That didn't, that's not how it went down.

00:40:26.680 The military was really good about that.

00:40:28.560 And I mean, the Navy and the army, as soon as we get there, the, uh, not only the captain

00:40:32.820 of the ships, there was three ships there, but even the admiral who was the battle room

00:40:36.520 commander gave us tactical authority and they, they don't want to plan the mission.

00:40:39.920 They want us to plan.

00:40:41.140 Uh, so we, we had everybody come up with a plan because we, we can't necessarily just rush

00:40:45.640 the boat because there's only a very small entrance.

00:40:48.300 And if, you know, if one guy can't get through, he kills, it only takes a second to kill

00:40:51.660 him.

00:40:52.060 Um, we, you know, we, do we ram it with one of our speed boats?

00:40:55.240 How do we do?

00:40:55.720 So we came up with all these different plans.

00:40:57.420 We narrowed them down to five great plans, everything.

00:41:00.700 I mean, we didn't go there to kill them.

00:41:02.340 We went there to, to get the hostage.

00:41:04.080 So if it comes to a negotiation, great.

00:41:06.080 And it might work that way because these are not necessarily terrorists.

00:41:09.440 They're, um, criminals and maybe they just want to go home too.

00:41:13.000 We don't know, but we put our snipers down to watch them.

00:41:16.340 But how did, first of all, how did you have, I understand how the snipers got there and

00:41:20.820 the helicopters, but where, where did the speed boats come from?

00:41:23.600 No, no, we jumped everything out.

00:41:24.840 We took, we flew from Virginia beach in two airplanes and had two boats per airplane.

00:41:29.400 And we jumped, we've jumped the boats out.

00:41:31.240 And when we jumped out, all of us, when you say you jumped the boats out, what is that?

00:41:35.100 You dumped them out of the plane?

00:41:36.740 No, no.

00:41:37.000 We, yeah, we dropped them.

00:41:37.740 They had four parachutes each.

00:41:38.720 We have, we, when, when, when it comes to a national mission like that, there are so

00:41:42.180 many people from the sniper back all the way back to the forklift driver who puts the

00:41:46.580 boats on the plane to the parachute riggers who pack the shoes, make sure that boats are

00:41:49.920 rigged.

00:41:50.240 So then we throw them out, the parachutes open to, you know, the administrative, administrative

00:41:55.060 people making sure our wills and powers of attorney are in order.

00:41:57.820 Like there's a, there's a, such a huge team behind all of us that we're just the end.

00:42:02.640 I always, I always tell people that we're kind of like, um, we're kind of like salesmen.

00:42:06.360 There's a huge company behind us, putting the buttons on the radio, making sure we have

00:42:09.440 the product.

00:42:09.820 And we're just a salesman that go to the door, except the problem with us is, uh, the customer

00:42:13.700 is always wrong.

00:42:16.240 That's a great point.

00:42:18.100 Wait a minute.

00:42:18.680 So not to be too naive, but you're telling me that, so you jumped out of, you jumped out

00:42:22.580 of the helicopter 15 hours.

00:42:24.160 No, no, we jumped out of, uh, airplane.

00:42:26.960 Okay.

00:42:27.320 Jumped out of an airplane and you have your gun on you.

00:42:30.980 I mean, this is a really dumb question.

00:42:32.560 I know it like the guns can go in the ocean.

00:42:34.420 They still work.

00:42:35.160 Like you have to hold onto it while you jump.

00:42:36.860 How does that work?

00:42:38.000 The guns will work.

00:42:38.880 We do have different, uh, types of, uh, bags and stuff to wrap them up in if we need

00:42:43.080 to, but yeah, you can get a gun and it'll be fine.

00:42:45.140 The guns that we use are great.

00:42:46.660 Uh, but, but you know, if you're jumping out of a plane into the ocean, everything that you

00:42:50.440 think you need better be on your body because you know, if you keep it in the boat,

00:42:54.080 the boat might, the chutes might not open, whenever you do anything, Murphy shows up,

00:42:58.000 Murphy's law and something's going to go back.

00:42:59.840 So yeah, everything that we need is, is it's on us.

00:43:02.960 And then the boat's rough.

00:43:03.900 Was there any fear about jumping out of the airplane?

00:43:06.440 No, we, we, we jumped, I have over a thousand jumps, uh, in training.

00:43:11.460 It's, it's, it's second nature to us.

00:43:13.060 It's, we, we do that all the time.

00:43:14.840 It wasn't, no, that's the fun part.

00:43:16.900 Leaving the plane.

00:43:17.480 Once your feet hit the water, that's when the work starts.

00:43:21.460 Oh, wow.

00:43:22.160 So is, I mean, just again, a technical question, but is there any problem collecting all the

00:43:25.740 guys and getting them into the boats?

00:43:26.800 Are you that accurate in your jumps that you, you land near your boat and you can get right

00:43:29.840 in?

00:43:30.640 Well, yeah, I was, I was actually the, what's called the lead jumper.

00:43:34.260 So I'm in the first plane.

00:43:35.600 I jump out and then I need to get everyone in, in a line.

00:43:38.120 It's called a stack.

00:43:39.480 And so my job is to find the, the four boats that jumped out and then lead everyone into

00:43:44.200 them, go, uh, you know, take some turns, do an upwind landing so we can slow down and

00:43:48.520 put everyone next to the boats.

00:43:49.720 But we, we have these, um, we call them training stars.

00:43:53.620 If you train all the time, but never do it, there's stuff you're doing in training.

00:43:57.340 You don't realize we, we've never done this ever.

00:43:59.580 And in the history of CLT of six, this is the first time ever, but we trained on it

00:44:04.040 a lot.

00:44:04.520 But when we're training, it's off the coast of Virginia or North Carolina.

00:44:07.600 And there are safety boats in the water that you can see that are like, they spin in circles

00:44:11.880 kind of mark the drop zone.

00:44:13.080 When you're in the Indian ocean, there's no safety boats.

00:44:16.080 I couldn't find the boats at first and me not be as, as a lead jumper, not being able

00:44:21.220 to find them.

00:44:22.060 I need to act like I can see them because everyone behind me, all 100 jumpers behind me, panicking

00:44:27.500 is not going to help.

00:44:28.160 I need to pretend I found them until I really find them.

00:44:30.900 God help us.

00:44:31.660 Because if I, if I don't, then we have a bunch of guys lost in the Indian ocean.

00:44:35.340 But how did you find them?

00:44:37.220 Um, well, believe it or not, it was, it was a daytime jump because, um, they, in the movies

00:44:41.300 they do nighttime jumps.

00:44:42.160 I always tell people there's no reason to jump at night into the ocean because if you get

00:44:47.540 lost, you're lost forever.

00:44:48.620 Um, so just go 50 miles away and jump where they can't see it.

00:44:51.800 Um, but it turned out the sun, the sun was shining on the ocean and boats were in the

00:44:55.440 sunshine.

00:44:55.660 Once I, I turned to my left and then started doing what we call a downwind leg, I spotted

00:44:59.220 them.

00:44:59.440 And after I, you know, took a nice deep breath and got the color back on my face, I brought

00:45:02.760 everybody into their boats.

00:45:03.620 All right.

00:45:04.620 So as long as I'm asking my dumb question, let me ask one of my kids.

00:45:07.580 Those are great questions.

00:45:09.060 This one's not great, but I, but my children are going to be glad I asked it.

00:45:12.320 Would you ever worry about sharks?

00:45:15.340 That's funny is, um, we all think about it.

00:45:18.140 And one of my new hobbies recently has been diving without cages with sharks just to prove

00:45:22.660 to myself they're actually, sharks are, sharks are polite predators, but, uh, people always

00:45:28.640 tend to think about, I think the movie Jaws, Peter Benchley's Jaws ruined everybody's

00:45:32.620 ocean experience because if you've been in the ocean, if you've been in the ocean, you

00:45:36.580 have had a very positive encounter with a shark.

00:45:39.260 You just don't realize it.

00:45:40.580 You're not on the menu, but, um, yeah, but Indian ocean is not bad.

00:45:43.840 They have, they have bulls are not bulls, but, um, whale sharks, which are harmless.

00:45:47.040 I didn't see, I might've seen one, but that's no big deal.

00:45:49.360 But I have been in the water with, uh, over the course of four days recently, uh, I look

00:45:53.580 about a loop.

00:45:54.020 I was in the water with 31 different great whites, maybe 33.

00:45:58.680 Great whites.

00:45:59.440 I mean, I've done the, uh, the black reef tip, you know, shark.

00:46:02.620 They hang out and, uh, I don't know, I was on Bora Bora or wherever.

00:46:05.900 And, uh, they, they seemed respectful of the little anchor line I was holding on to,

00:46:10.000 but I wouldn't get in with great whites.

00:46:12.140 We did, we did that.

00:46:12.940 And then we, we, that was in Mexico.

00:46:14.500 And then we actually went out to Bimini and did, we're free diving with, uh, with, uh,

00:46:19.180 tigers and tigers are funny.

00:46:20.820 These sharks actually all have different personalities.

00:46:23.380 Like the great whites, very, uh, polite and curious.

00:46:27.240 Um, like a great hammerhead is, is, uh, very smart.

00:46:30.820 The, the reef sharks are like puppies.

00:46:33.200 The bull sharks are mean.

00:46:34.600 I'll give them that.

00:46:35.180 But then like the tiger sharks are, they're like clumsy.

00:46:38.020 It's almost like they've been drinking a little and they just want to play with you.

00:46:40.320 It's funny.

00:46:40.600 It's really funny.

00:46:41.420 Oh, wait.

00:46:41.900 So just so I know, you know, out of curiosity, what does a bull shark look like?

00:46:44.920 Just, just in case.

00:46:46.240 Uh, they're just, they look angry.

00:46:48.260 They're just mean.

00:46:48.920 And they, they, they give other sharks a bad rap because they're the ones that have

00:46:53.220 a lot of adrenaline.

00:46:54.040 They'll just bite you because they're angry.

00:46:55.280 They're the ones that bite people in like three feet of water.

00:46:57.460 I mean, I've given them a bad name here too.

00:46:59.220 They're just, they're just the mean, the mean one that shouldn't.

00:47:01.780 Abby, could you just Google bull sharks coast of New Jersey just so I, just so I can go

00:47:06.060 in the ocean this summer with some.

00:47:07.520 They're not, they're not in that.

00:47:08.940 They're not in New Jersey.

00:47:10.160 Okay.

00:47:10.560 Excellent.

00:47:11.040 Are you just saying that the way I say that to my children?

00:47:12.860 No, no, no.

00:47:13.820 I'm actually going, I'm, I'm, I'm going to Cape Cod very soon.

00:47:16.140 There's a ton of great whites up there and I still swim there.

00:47:18.420 Okay.

00:47:18.880 I mean, we've had no choice, but to just lie.

00:47:21.280 We're like, no, there's no sharks.

00:47:22.520 No, the sharks don't come in this, this shallow.

00:47:24.920 They won't come into this.

00:47:26.440 Meanwhile, it's like, they love to come in in shallow water.

00:47:29.500 I have a great joke.

00:47:30.540 People will say, well, how do you know there's sharks in the water?

00:47:33.180 And I say, well, I have a very scientific test that I do.

00:47:35.620 I get a teaspoon from my kitchen and I walk down to the water.

00:47:38.920 I dip in the water and I taste it.

00:47:40.220 And if it tastes like salt, there's sharks out there.

00:47:44.920 This is somehow not reassuring to me.

00:47:47.500 Okay.

00:47:47.980 So you guys get, you get Captain Phillips.

00:47:50.220 It's a huge deal.

00:47:51.280 It's a huge win for the United States, for our military, for the SEALs, for you, all, everybody.

00:47:55.880 And I would imagine at that point, you're thinking, this is the biggest mission I've

00:47:58.600 ever been on.

00:47:59.080 This is like, this is it.

00:48:00.080 This is the apex of my military career.

00:48:02.000 And that was the same group.

00:48:04.000 Most of the same group on the Bin Laden radio year later, a year or so later.

00:48:07.380 And what I love about that movie, Captain Phillips, is at the end of the movie, when the snipers

00:48:12.080 take their shot, what you see them do is they put up their bipods, which are the stabilization

00:48:17.140 platforms.

00:48:18.160 And then they leave.

00:48:19.140 They don't say a word.

00:48:20.020 And it just made Navy SEALs look cool.

00:48:21.900 And that's pretty much what it was.

00:48:23.840 I remember one of my, one of my friends that was actually in my wedding was the lead sniper.

00:48:28.580 And I saw him after he did that.

00:48:31.160 And I said, do you realize you just did the most historically significant thing in the

00:48:35.320 history of the SEAL team?

00:48:36.300 And his response was, yeah, can we go home now?

00:48:38.920 That was it.

00:48:39.360 I would have been like, go on.

00:48:42.760 Yeah, I'm listening.

00:48:45.040 Right.

00:48:45.500 But yeah, that was it.

00:48:46.840 And we figured that, yeah, it will not get bigger than that.

00:48:50.000 No, right.

00:48:50.640 How could you possibly think it would?

00:48:52.120 And by the way, just, just not for nothing, but my old agent at CAA, Matt Del Piano, was

00:48:57.340 the guy who saw that story and said, that's got to be a movie.

00:49:00.360 And he was, he was the guy who first thought of that and got and bought the rights and made

00:49:03.840 it happen.

00:49:04.200 But they did it.

00:49:04.860 Okay.

00:49:05.100 So great job.

00:49:05.880 Great job with the movie.

00:49:06.540 A couple years later.

00:49:07.640 Yeah.

00:49:07.800 So now everybody who hasn't seen it has to see, see Lone Survivor.

00:49:11.200 And was the Captain Phillips movie called Captain Phillips?

00:49:13.940 I'm trying to remember.

00:49:14.520 Captain Phillips.

00:49:15.060 Yep.

00:49:15.620 Okay.

00:49:15.820 With, with Tom Hanks.

00:49:17.260 Yes.

00:49:17.720 And then we flash forward to May, 2011.

00:49:20.900 By this point, you've been going off to fight wars for six years.

00:49:24.680 So where were you when you got the call something was about to happen?

00:49:28.700 We had just finished another deployment to Afghanistan and I was running different stations

00:49:35.560 out of Jalalabad where I had been for the Marcus Luttrell thing, but now they'd built

00:49:40.560 it up and we had different, we're doing, we're trying to do cross border intelligence

00:49:44.840 for high value targets.

00:49:47.320 We, nothing was mentioned there.

00:49:48.500 And we got back from that deployment.

00:49:50.000 We had a few weeks of leave with our families because we just got back from war and I took

00:49:55.060 my team to Miami for a training trip where we could hopefully do some diving, but also

00:50:00.200 get some good fellowship camaraderie, if you will.

00:50:03.520 And, um, we were down there after a night of training and we were at happy hour on the

00:50:08.640 beach and we got a call that a few of us needed to go back to Virginia tonight.

00:50:12.640 And we weren't sure exactly what, why they wouldn't tell us.

00:50:17.700 And we flew up there.

00:50:18.940 So some of the guys from Miami went up there, a couple of guys from another team from like

00:50:22.660 out in Nevada, out in Arizona, doing different training were there.

00:50:25.820 And they brought like 28 of us into a room and they said, uh, now, first of all, guys,

00:50:31.280 this is not a drill.

00:50:31.960 This is real.

00:50:33.320 We found a thing and this thing is in a house and this house is in a bowl between some mountains.

00:50:40.220 These mountains are in a country and you guys are going to go fly in to this house.

00:50:44.620 You're going to get this thing and you're going to bring it back to us.

00:50:48.460 And we said, well, okay, what's the thing?

00:50:50.900 We can't tell you.

00:50:51.500 Okay.

00:50:52.080 Um, where's the house?

00:50:53.260 Can't tell you.

00:50:53.760 What country?

00:50:54.320 Can't tell you.

00:50:54.780 How are we getting there?

00:50:56.000 We can't tell you.

00:50:58.040 How much air support?

00:50:59.140 And they said, none.

00:50:59.880 Like, okay, good.

00:51:00.460 That's an answer.

00:51:01.180 So we know there's no air support.

00:51:03.280 And, um, they said, you know, they said, well, and you can't, we're not bringing any,

00:51:06.520 uh, support, meaning, um, not support, but.

00:51:10.220 Uh, air force pararescuemen who are combat surgeons or, uh, combat controllers, air force

00:51:15.340 who are radio matter, master radio guys.

00:51:17.300 It's only seals.

00:51:18.840 So if you used to know how to do medic medical stuff, bring it.

00:51:22.840 If you know how to use a radio, bring it.

00:51:24.620 And we assumed that we were going into Libya for Qaddafi because the Arab spring had just

00:51:31.520 started in Tunisia, worked its way over to Egypt, into Libya.

00:51:34.340 That's right.

00:51:34.860 And we assume they found Qaddafi and we're just going to go grab him, bring him back

00:51:38.260 and maybe he'll get debriefed by intelligence agencies or something.

00:51:42.920 So we're getting our gear ready for a couple of days.

00:51:45.460 And on Friday they said, okay, go home, be with your kids, come back on Sunday.

00:51:50.860 We're going to drive you somewhere and we're going to read you in on what's happening.

00:51:55.040 And we're like, okay, cool.

00:51:56.220 Who's going to be at the read-in?

00:51:57.360 And they said, probably the vice president, secretary of defense, the secretary of the

00:52:01.620 Navy, blah, blah, blah.

00:52:02.460 Oh my God.

00:52:04.060 And then they're going down the list.

00:52:06.760 They're going down the list.

00:52:08.280 And they said, somebody, somebody, CTC pad, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:52:12.780 Now I didn't say anything, but CTC pad is a counter-terror desk, CIA, Pakistan, Afghanistan.

00:52:18.840 And so we went home, saw the kids, came back on Sunday and we're driving down to a place

00:52:24.020 in North Carolina.

00:52:24.640 And I was, I told my boss next to me, uh, there's four of us in the van.

00:52:28.600 I said, man, this isn't Qaddafi.

00:52:30.240 They found Bin Laden.

00:52:31.140 And he said, that's exactly what I was thinking.

00:52:32.820 We talked back and forth.

00:52:34.220 We got to a spot, um, went in, there was armed guards.

00:52:37.420 They locked the doors.

00:52:38.260 And, um, the woman that found Bin Laden was there.

00:52:41.020 We'd never met her before.

00:52:41.900 And the commanding officer-

00:52:43.040 The CIA analyst.

00:52:44.160 Yep.

00:52:45.120 And she's real.

00:52:46.020 She's a real person.

00:52:47.440 Another movie.

00:52:48.800 That movie was Zero Dark Thirty.

00:52:50.380 They made about her.

00:52:51.080 It's so crazy.

00:52:51.780 You've been involved in a lot.

00:52:52.580 Okay, so, so she comes in and did you know her?

00:52:55.500 Did you know this is the woman?

00:52:56.980 No.

00:52:57.300 No idea who they were.

00:52:57.960 And to be fair, it was actually a team of maybe three women.

00:53:01.440 She was the, she was the lead one that the movie was about, but there was a, it was mostly

00:53:05.380 women that found Bin Laden, which I think is just cool.

00:53:07.900 It is cool.

00:53:08.420 It's sort of like the, the hidden figures, you know, it's like-

00:53:11.120 It is.

00:53:11.800 Totally.

00:53:12.260 Totally.

00:53:12.860 Like I was saying earlier, you don't know who's behind the scenes and they deserve all the

00:53:15.720 credit.

00:53:15.920 But, but the, the commanding officer of COPM-6 came up and, and we had a room full of very

00:53:21.560 experienced Navy SEALs.

00:53:22.680 And he said, the reason you guys are here is this, this closest we've ever been to Osama

00:53:26.380 Bin Laden.

00:53:27.700 And we look around the room and it wasn't, there was no high fives or cheers.

00:53:31.620 It was professionals.

00:53:32.600 And we said, okay, can we go right now?

00:53:36.300 And they, he said, no, here's why.

00:53:37.940 And then the woman that found Bin Laden started briefing us.

00:53:40.300 She was actually the first person I'd ever heard to say the word Abbottabad.

00:53:44.640 And I remember hearing the word Abbottabad come out of her mouth.

00:53:47.600 And I thought, I remember thinking, this is serious.

00:53:49.500 Like I've never heard that.

00:53:50.320 And tell people where that, where that was.

00:53:52.100 This, uh, it's Abbottabad, Pakistan is a resort town north of Islamabad, Pakistan.

00:53:56.880 And she kept saying it.

00:53:57.860 And we'd been on targets before, but no one had ever mentioned a city I'd never heard of.

00:54:01.640 And it's like, this is legit.

00:54:02.740 And she explained in depth how she found him to the point where we're like, okay, look,

00:54:07.840 I don't need to know all this.

00:54:09.120 You're way smarter than me.

00:54:09.880 It's obvious.

00:54:10.540 Just let me have a sledgehammer and a gun.

00:54:12.200 Point me in the direction.

00:54:13.000 I'll trust you.

00:54:14.400 More chills coming up in about 60 seconds as we get into what actually happened on the

00:54:19.160 Bin Laden compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, that fateful day, uh, overnight, May 1st into

00:54:25.840 May 2nd, 2011.

00:54:33.280 First of all, were you surprised she said Pakistan?

00:54:35.600 You know, because I, I, people had been surmising, but, you know, we were fighting the war in Afghanistan.

00:54:39.780 That's where he had been.

00:54:40.920 And was that a surprise to you?

00:54:42.520 No, not at all.

00:54:43.560 We, we kind of knew he was in Pakistan.

00:54:45.560 I assumed he was in Canada, Pakistan with the, like, the Haqqani network and where, uh,

00:54:50.120 I, when I was always, I, I mean, I was over here.

00:54:52.020 Like, that's where he is right now.

00:54:52.820 Like, that's where they are.

00:54:54.400 But they kept him in, in Nevada bed just because it was out of the way.

00:54:58.100 Um, and, and they had been, they had been doing counterintelligence against Al Qaeda.

00:55:02.040 They, we made up the cave stuff with the dialysis machine because our intel people knew that if,

00:55:09.080 if someone came in telling intelligence that it was definitely Bin Laden, I saw him, he had a dialysis machine.

00:55:13.920 The intelligence analysts would be thinking, no, you're lying because we made that up.

00:55:17.260 He doesn't have dialysis.

00:55:18.200 I didn't know that.

00:55:19.120 I love, I think the tactics are so fascinating.

00:55:22.640 No, wait, I want to, I want to jump in and say that Admiral McRaven, who, was his official title head of special ops?

00:55:29.480 Like, was he the?

00:55:30.040 He was the, he was the commander of, uh, Joint Special Operations Command, JSOC.

00:55:34.340 So he ran the whole thing.

00:55:35.620 He's the one that sold it to President Obama.

00:55:39.060 So he was, he's a four-star Admiral.

00:55:41.400 At the time, he, I think he was a three-star, but I mean, he's getting his four-star.

00:55:45.440 There was never a doubt.

00:55:46.320 Like the second he graduated, he was going to be a four-star Admiral.

00:55:49.420 There's no doubt about it.

00:55:49.620 This guy's crazy good.

00:55:50.780 Like, if you want to feel good about America, go listen to anything that Admiral McRaven has said or written.

00:55:55.300 And here is, here is his description of, of this moment you're telling us about that he said, and I'm quoting now.

00:56:01.720 There were two commanders that I trusted implicitly for a mission like this.

00:56:05.000 And one of them, a Navy SEAL commander and his team, had just gotten back from Afghanistan and were all on leave.

00:56:11.220 That's you.

00:56:12.280 Uh, you're one of those guys.

00:56:13.540 I recalled the squadron, and frankly, these were not happy campers.

00:56:17.560 I've got them in this classroom, and I can see the body language.

00:56:20.740 Then a CIA officer comes out and hands out some nondisclosure statements.

00:56:25.000 Then the next agency officer comes out and briefs the target, Osama bin Laden.

00:56:29.820 And, oh, I mean, it just must have been, it must have been such a moment when you, I mean, this is what it's about.

00:56:36.460 We're trying to get this guy.

00:56:39.020 And now you realize you are one of the chosen to, to actually do it.

00:56:44.300 Why, why do you think you were, why do you think you got that tap on the shoulder?

00:56:49.040 There were, again, um, luck, uh, right place, right time.

00:56:53.220 There were a number of people who could have done it from different services.

00:56:57.320 It just so happened that we, we would give off the, the smallest footprint training because we needed to train to prove to the powers that be that we could go in there.

00:57:07.780 Uh, even president Obama said when, when we were done, uh, I was never 100% convinced that Osama bin Laden was there, but after seeing you, I was convinced you guys could go in, find out and get out.

00:57:19.720 And, and so we were training, we needed to go train for a few weeks to prove to people that we could do it.

00:57:26.020 And so you think the seals were chosen?

00:57:27.680 Cause I mean, I'm thinking this is not a water situation, right?

00:57:30.280 So they, why, why did they use the seals?

00:57:32.260 And like, what, what was it?

00:57:33.600 It was your small footprint.

00:57:34.600 We'd been, no, we, well, we've been training in Afghanistan and, uh, sorry, we've been at war in Afghanistan for the longest time.

00:57:41.180 Our army counterparts, the tier one, tier one unit there had been Iraq mostly.

00:57:44.780 And we were just most, we, we were so familiar with the, the environment that we were just, we were the natural call for it.

00:57:52.100 Plus our commanders were so good at putting a senior seal officers and senior enlisted off, uh, senior enlisted seals in the DC area, working in certain places.

00:58:00.920 Uh, we had, uh, uh, officers at the white house, national security council, Pentagon, just so when they needed a, like a little back rub saying, Hey, you've seen us, we'll, we'll do this.

00:58:10.160 We're good.

00:58:10.740 They would have been working on it for years.

00:58:12.540 They've been prepping for this forever.

00:58:14.080 And it just, it just so happened that we were, because we, like I said, we were on a training trip.

00:58:18.220 It was natural for the people in Virginia beach, which is a small community to see this one squadron leaving to train.

00:58:23.840 So it wouldn't be out of the ordinary that if, if the team that was there started training, people would say, well, what are they training for?

00:58:30.540 If the team that was in Afghanistan stopped going to war and started training, well, what are they training for?

00:58:35.120 We were supposed to be training.

00:58:36.320 So no one would notice that we were out of town training.

00:58:38.040 We're just training for the bin Laden raid.

00:58:39.780 And that they just picked up because we were out of the group that got picked.

00:58:42.700 We were the most senior.

00:58:44.940 All right.

00:58:45.380 So McRaven is the guy who, who gave Obama the options.

00:58:47.860 Once the CIA had located what, where they thought Osama bin Laden was, and they, so what I, what I heard McRaven say and what I've read is that they gave Obama four options.

00:58:58.640 They said, McRaven and his team said, you got, you got four options.

00:59:02.480 You could do a B-2 bomber to blast the whole compound.

00:59:05.680 You could do a drone strike.

00:59:07.240 You could use commando forces, or you could use the SEALs.

00:59:11.500 And Obama chose the SEALs on McRaven's recommendation.

00:59:14.680 McRaven says, and quoting again, we were out there for several days rehearsing all aspects of the, of the mission.

00:59:20.700 Then once we were through, I had one more meeting with the president and he asked me, can you do this?

00:59:26.680 And I said, sir, we can, I'm confident we can do this.

00:59:31.140 And thus began operation Neptune spear, which he named in a tip of the hat understanding.

00:59:37.820 If you guys got him, it would be one of the biggest things we've ever done, uh, to the, the history of the SEALs, uh, and some symbolism that he was looking at with respect to the spear.

00:59:48.700 Can you, can you explain that?

00:59:51.140 Um, that was for the spear carried by King Neptune and, uh, who rules the seas and because we're Navy SEALs.

00:59:56.900 We thought we would pay homage to, uh, King Neptune.

00:59:59.620 So Neptune spear, and it just sounds cool.

01:00:01.700 And, you know, Bill McRaven came up with it and, uh, you know, regardless of any beliefs or politics, I will follow Admiral McRaven to hell.

01:00:08.440 And, uh, just love, you know, he came up with it.

01:00:10.220 It's just a brilliant, brilliant, everything just worked out well.

01:00:12.820 Like he said, the ground force commander that he picked, I I've known for many, many years.

01:00:17.060 And he had always been the guy that should be the guy that leaves the mission on the ground.

01:00:21.060 Admiral McRaven was the guy that should have overall lived the mission.

01:00:23.660 And just to be a part of it was, um, you know, it's one of those, this is, this is why we're here guys.

01:00:28.340 This is what we're doing.

01:00:28.960 They're going to pick us.

01:00:29.800 We're going to go.

01:00:30.900 It was just, uh, when the, when the mission was carried out,

01:00:33.420 well, we, we all flew to Jalalabad, Afghanistan, the same place that I, for some reason it's entwined in my history.

01:00:40.260 Uh, um, we're, we're over there at one of our tactical operations centers.

01:00:44.180 We're waiting on the word from president Obama.

01:00:46.780 And so we were just kind of there, um, waiting for the green light.

01:00:50.600 And we had 48 hours to do it.

01:00:52.740 Two cycles of zero illumination was completely dark.

01:00:55.280 And that's when we're going to go.

01:00:56.720 And, um, once we got the green light, we were actually, before we left, we could have left Saturday.

01:01:02.360 They decided not to, because the correspondence dinner was happening.

01:01:05.000 We don't need a cabinet getting up and leaving because the press is there.

01:01:08.000 So we went on Sunday and before we left, we're in a hangar.

01:01:11.900 And Adam McCrave has kind of given us our final talking to before we were actually getting ready to get on the helicopters.

01:01:19.340 And he said, uh, uh, you know, last night, guys, I watched my favorite movie, uh, Hoosiers.

01:01:25.000 And at the end of the movie, when that small town basketball team is playing in that huge arena for the Indiana state championship, they walk in in awe.

01:01:32.580 They've never left their hometown.

01:01:34.340 They're looking around this huge arena.

01:01:36.160 And coach had the smallest guy on the team, get on the shoulders, the largest guy on the team and pull out a tape measure.

01:01:41.340 And he said, what's the measurement from the rim to the floor?

01:01:44.340 And he said, 10 feet.

01:01:45.680 What's the, what's the measurement from the back of the rim to the freestyle?

01:01:48.180 I go 15 feet coach.

01:01:49.500 And he said, these are the same measurements as your gym in old Hickory.

01:01:52.240 It's just a bigger audience.

01:01:54.060 And he looked at us and go, he said, guys, you do this every single night.

01:01:57.440 It's just a bigger audience.

01:01:58.680 And so we're leaving.

01:02:00.520 And I remember I talked to Adam McRaven.

01:02:02.580 I said, Admiral, you're so busy with this.

01:02:04.960 I seriously doubt you watched Hoosiers last night, but I got to tell you, if you were, you were, you were born to give that speech right now.

01:02:12.980 Oh, wow.

01:02:14.620 Again, chills.

01:02:16.140 He said what worried him most was the unknown, whether the whole place would be booby trapped.

01:02:20.700 As we had seen some of these Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters do before at the compounds holding important, you know, fighters, Al Qaeda, you know, it's always the number three guy of Al Qaeda who gets killed.

01:02:30.940 They would booby trap their compounds.

01:02:32.660 And so the whole place would, would blow up.

01:02:34.560 He said, McRaven, he was confident you guys could get past Pakistani integrated air defense.

01:02:39.860 You were in these, these two helicopters or their Black Hawk helicopters, right?

01:02:44.940 They had been modified to be extra stealthy.

01:02:46.640 And they, yeah, they, they'd been modified by, again, people, people smarter than me.

01:02:51.440 And after seeing them, people probably smarter than this planet.

01:02:55.020 I don't know how they did it.

01:02:56.640 But so he knew that they could get past the Pakistani air defense and that you guys, he could get you, he could get you to the compound.

01:03:04.200 But nobody was 100% sure.

01:03:06.780 I mean, the CIA analysts believed bin Laden was there, but nobody knew.

01:03:10.400 And so you, you wrote in your book about the moonless night, the 90 minute flight on a moonless night from your base in Afghanistan to the compound in Pakistan, 162 miles away.

01:03:21.100 And that, I mean, that 90 minutes must be seared in your memory.

01:03:25.640 Walk us through what you were doing.

01:03:27.260 Well, we, we, see, they were convinced that we could get past the air defense, but they weren't on the plane.

01:03:32.560 We were.

01:03:32.940 So we could get shot down at any second and not even be angry about it because we're invading a sovereign nation.

01:03:39.220 The house is going to blow up when we get there.

01:03:41.600 If anyone's going to martyr himself at bin Laden, there will be a gunfight when we get there.

01:03:45.340 If we run out of fuel, we're going to end our short lives either in a gunfight with the Pakistani police or we're going to die in Pakistani prison.

01:03:52.040 It's, it's, it's a one-way mission to the point that before we left, this is a very important emotional part.

01:03:57.920 Before we left, I had one of my guys say, um, cause we accept the death.

01:04:01.920 That's it.

01:04:02.360 We're, we're going to die.

01:04:03.920 He said, don't take this the wrong way because I'm 100% going.

01:04:08.620 Don't worry about that.

01:04:09.440 I'm going, I just need to say it out loud.

01:04:11.920 If we know we're going to die, why are we going?

01:04:16.460 And, and so we had a conversation and we had a conversation.

01:04:19.140 We said, okay, well, we're not going after bin Laden for the fame or the reward, um, or the bravado.

01:04:26.140 We are going after Osama bin Laden for the single mom who dropped her kids off at elementary school on a Tuesday.

01:04:32.380 And 45 minutes later, she jumped to her death out of a skyscraper because that was a better alternative than whatever the hell was going on inside at 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit.

01:04:41.840 And her last gesture of human decency was holding her skirt as she jumped out of a building and murdered herself.

01:04:47.820 She was never supposed to be in the fight.

01:04:49.840 We're supposed to be in the fight.

01:04:51.500 That's why we're going.

01:04:53.700 Oh my God.

01:04:55.100 Dying.

01:04:55.500 I mean, I both have tears in our eyes.

01:04:57.920 Yeah.

01:04:58.460 It's incredible.

01:04:59.800 But you're right.

01:05:00.760 That's the perspective on it.

01:05:02.460 Yeah.

01:05:02.740 And it was, and we talked about flight 93.

01:05:04.280 We talked about Todd Beamer.

01:05:05.360 We talked about the people in the Pentagon who went to work and never came back.

01:05:08.240 And so for us, that made it easier because now with the acceptance of death, there is no fear.

01:05:15.260 But just to ask you prior to that moment, I understand you had written goodbye letters to your kids.

01:05:20.580 Yeah, I did.

01:05:21.160 But the daughter that I just FaceTimed a few minutes ago, she was, I, she was always there.

01:05:27.020 I always said goodbye to her, but she was seven when I said goodbye to her on this one.

01:05:30.400 But the letter I wrote, I wrote letters to everybody, but the letter I wrote to her was not to the seven-year-old.

01:05:35.380 It was to the 27-year-old explaining, I'm really sorry I missed your wedding.

01:05:39.980 I know you're beautiful.

01:05:41.360 Thanks for taking care of your sisters and your mom.

01:05:43.800 What we did was noble, explaining the mission, you know, to someone eventually that will read it.

01:05:49.140 And, you know, tears hitting the page is not even fun to think about now.

01:05:51.560 And then, but it was, it was, it was, it was one of those moments in time that's bigger than me.

01:05:56.400 It's like the Braveheart thing.

01:05:57.900 You know, we could, I could pull myself off this mission anytime I wanted to and live.

01:06:01.280 But, you know, when I'm dying at 95 years old on my deathbed, would I give every single day back for that one night?

01:06:07.500 Yeah.

01:06:07.780 And so we do it.

01:06:08.360 And we, we went and even with my father, like I would call him on missions when I was in Iraq or wherever, some in Afghanistan.

01:06:15.040 And he would always say, man, I wish I was going with you.

01:06:17.740 And, and I said, I know, dad, I wish you were too.

01:06:19.920 And on this one, I called him and I said, and he didn't know where I was.

01:06:22.460 And he said, I wish I was going with you.

01:06:23.700 And I said, don't worry, dad.

01:06:24.440 I'm with some really good guys.

01:06:26.560 And your poor mom, I'm sure was worried as she always had been.

01:06:30.220 You're off there.

01:06:30.820 I know you'd won a silver star already.

01:06:32.320 And you were like, don't worry, mom, I won't win any more silver stars.

01:06:34.820 At the commemoration, what, or at the, at the medal ceremony, what you had done, she was like, oh my God, what?

01:06:40.800 And you said, promise no more silver stars.

01:06:42.720 I'll never get another silver star, I promise.

01:06:44.320 And so you're on the, you're on the flight over there.

01:06:48.180 We had 90 minutes.

01:06:48.860 And you're counting.

01:06:49.860 Tell us, talk about the counting and what that led to.

01:06:52.900 Everybody there realized if you're worrying about, and this is good advice again for life.

01:06:58.300 If you're worrying about something that your worry can't affect, stop worrying.

01:07:01.660 You're wasting your energy.

01:07:03.080 So us worrying about a missile right now isn't going to stop the missile.

01:07:06.620 So stop wasting it.

01:07:07.800 So I'm looking around, some guys actually put in their, their earbuds and fell asleep.

01:07:12.960 And I'm looking at my friends sleeping.

01:07:14.920 And I remember looking at some of my best friends thinking, you are asleep literally on the ride to Osama Bin Laden's house.

01:07:20.880 You have ice in your veins.

01:07:22.060 What I was doing though, I learned as a sniper was to count when you're looking through a binoculars or a spotting scope and your board just count and change the cadence, you know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, just count to a thousand and start backtracking.

01:07:37.280 Remember counting, you know, to keep your mind occupied.

01:07:39.540 And I was counting and it's a 90 minute flight and we have 80 minutes basically to where the pilots who don't get any credit are flying so close to the earth, weaving in and out of everything.

01:07:49.000 We get to 90 or 80 minutes into a 90 minute flight and we bank to the South.

01:07:52.720 And I know it sounds Hollywood, but in my mind, I said, five 56, five 57 freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended.

01:08:03.180 And I have no idea how I remembered that.

01:08:04.820 That's what president Bush said on nine 11.

01:08:06.600 I said, well, forget counting.

01:08:07.840 I'm going to say that over and over freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended.

01:08:13.760 And that's when it finally sunk in and hit me.

01:08:16.160 And I said to myself, I'm on this mission and we're going to kill him.

01:08:20.920 And then we did another bank to the South and we, uh, the air crew, the air crew, here's people that don't get credit.

01:08:26.820 They put their butts on the, on the seats.

01:08:29.100 They could have died with us.

01:08:30.240 They opened the door for us.

01:08:31.720 And imagine if we weren't smart enough to know how to open that door on that super secret helicopter.

01:08:35.240 And we got two helicopters full of Navy SEALs who can't get out, but you know what I mean?

01:08:40.180 Again, guys, guys that did their part to get us out.

01:08:42.680 And, um, we, he opened the door.

01:08:44.180 I remember looking out the side, I got Cairo, the dog, uh, the Belgian Malinois next to me.

01:08:48.780 And I look out, there's electricity.

01:08:50.940 I know that we just flew over a golf course.

01:08:52.700 This is not a war zone.

01:08:53.960 And I kind of smiled at my last arrogant smile.

01:08:56.760 And I remember thinking, this is some serious Navy SEAL shit we're about to do.

01:09:01.660 And then, and that, so can I, can I, can I be, yeah, no, we got to get to what happened when you went in there, but we do have the president Bush soundbite.

01:09:11.140 Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended.

01:09:19.580 Make no mistake.

01:09:21.780 The United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts.

01:09:31.640 The resolve of our great nation is being tested, but make no mistake.

01:09:38.060 We will show the world that we will pass this test.

01:09:42.820 Every once in a generation, you get a leader who, who says exactly the right thing at the right time.

01:09:47.100 And that was one of those moments.

01:09:49.180 Yeah, that, I mean, no doubt about it.

01:09:50.420 That, that was a, it's a, I always, um, I'll tell people, you know, I never, ever want another a 9-11, but I would love another 9-12.

01:09:57.680 Because that was, that was a time when we were all together as a nation.

01:10:00.820 And we took off the, the, the, the ridiculous blinders of political correctness and realized that we're on this team and there are people that are at war with us and we can beat them.

01:10:08.280 You have spoken of the now famous photo in the Situation Room that night.

01:10:14.000 You're, you're in the helicopter on your way to the Bin Laden compound and President Obama, who made the call to, to, to put you on this mission, is sitting in the Situation Room in the White House with Hillary Clinton, with the Secretary of Defense, Gates and others.

01:10:29.820 And that photo is just so iconic.

01:10:32.520 What do you make of it, of what, of what that photo captured?

01:10:35.640 See, that photo captured so much because the first point right there is that was not the Situation Room.

01:10:41.860 That was a room adjacent to the Situation Room.

01:10:44.500 And the guy in the middle is a one-star general, General Webb.

01:10:47.520 The people in the Situation Room could not get the feed up, so they couldn't see it.

01:10:51.240 General Webb did.

01:10:52.800 And that's the contingency.

01:10:53.960 Well, well, well, it didn't go the way it was supposed to be planned.

01:10:55.880 He called people.

01:10:56.460 And President Obama is sitting in the back corner in a folding chair because General Webb offered him his chair.

01:11:01.220 He said, no, no, you're doing the right thing.

01:11:02.540 I'll sit back here, which I think is cool.

01:11:04.900 And so they're watching.

01:11:06.240 And that picture was taken with the helicopter, the first one.

01:11:08.640 I wasn't on the one that went down.

01:11:10.600 It went, the first helicopter crash landed in the front yard, which was, which was the, what's the worst thing that could happen scenario for us.

01:11:16.980 And when it crashed, again, Admiral McRaven, realizing what I said earlier, if you're worrying or freaking out about something, won't help it.

01:11:25.800 Don't do it.

01:11:26.840 He calmed them down by saying, he didn't even know half the team was dead right now.

01:11:32.900 He said, obviously, we've had a contingency, but don't worry, my guys are prepared to carry on.

01:11:36.820 Knowing that would calm them down.

01:11:38.680 But he's like, I don't, you know, I don't know what we're going to do.

01:11:41.400 But then the guys got out and started, they took it from there.

01:11:43.880 So that picture right there was the entire cabinet watching it unfold.

01:11:49.440 And that was a, it wasn't a crash.

01:11:51.140 The lead pilot, flight lead, saved everyone's lives by realizing he couldn't hover because it was warmer.

01:11:56.060 There was an updraft.

01:11:56.900 And if he could get the tail to that fence and pin the nose, it wouldn't roll.

01:12:00.980 And he did exactly that.

01:12:02.140 And that photo says so much.

01:12:03.940 It's one of the most amazing photographs in this nation's history.

01:12:07.300 It's crazy.

01:12:08.180 And they were watching it.

01:12:09.180 They were watching.

01:12:09.740 And now we can watch it, you know, as a result of the technology and the cameras that you guys had and the helicopters.

01:12:15.040 We can watch it.

01:12:15.920 And that's eerie and amazing and really pretty cool, too.

01:12:19.800 So so all of this is happening.

01:12:21.760 And you and you get there soup to nuts, 15 minutes, right?

01:12:25.120 In inside and outside, like the whole mission, what you got out of those helicopters, 15 minutes long.

01:12:30.540 I think it was about 15 minutes till we killed in London.

01:12:33.380 We were on the ground for 47 minutes because there was so much there was so much stuff in the house.

01:12:38.320 We didn't realize that Bin Laden had been running Al Qaeda from the second floor of that building, three offices.

01:12:42.940 He was running the entire show.

01:12:43.980 When we got in there, we got up to him and got him.

01:12:46.320 But then it was it was it was just there was so much stuff to get.

01:12:50.020 And plus, we had to blow up the helicopter.

01:12:51.940 How many guys are on the ground for this?

01:12:54.960 I think 20, 23 guys.

01:12:57.540 Well, the plan was 23.

01:12:58.980 We also had two pilots and two air crew from the first helicopter.

01:13:03.380 Where I remember I didn't know the helicopter crashed when I went through the front carport.

01:13:07.260 I looked to the side and they were standing there.

01:13:08.540 I remember looking at these guys with American flags like, who are these dudes?

01:13:12.040 Because I didn't know the helicopter crashed.

01:13:13.240 It was very, very chaotic few first minutes until we got in.

01:13:16.340 But but just when we got in, because I was I was initially supposed to be on the team that went to the rooftop.

01:13:21.400 We were going to drop snipers, the dog, an interpreter and a machine gun outside.

01:13:26.060 And they were going to put my team on the roof.

01:13:27.560 We were going to jump on the roof down to the balcony and hopefully engage through the glass window to the bedroom.

01:13:33.100 But because they put us out, put us down outside, I was like in the back and I got to watch cool guys do cool things.

01:13:39.680 And when we actually got into Bin Laden's house, I was in the back looking down a hallway on the first floor of Bin Laden's house.

01:13:45.220 And I remember just being so proud of my guys thinking, you know, we could blow up at any time.

01:13:49.440 But look at these guys. No one's being fazed by this.

01:13:51.760 They're doing they're doing exactly we're doing everything like we do anything.

01:13:54.720 We're slow as smooth, smooth as fast, escalate forces you need.

01:13:57.700 And even even to the point where they were moving children from different rooms to be with elder women because we're the good guys.

01:14:05.380 And we don't want these kids to be any more scared than they are.

01:14:08.560 Just the stuff that the good guys do that Al Qaeda would not to us.

01:14:11.900 And it was and so, yeah, and, you know, it's methodical.

01:14:15.900 It was this was by no means one of the most difficult targets we'd ever taken down.

01:14:19.080 We're with some of the best guys in the world.

01:14:20.660 And we methodically took the second floor and then went to the third.

01:14:23.260 All right. Now I want to go through that.

01:14:24.460 But before we get to that, I understand there was a prearranged word that you would use to to communicate back to Admiral McRaven that you did get Osama Bin Laden.

01:14:36.320 And what was that word?

01:14:37.640 The word was and it's a pro word.

01:14:40.160 It was by no means a nickname.

01:14:41.900 The pro word was Geronimo.

01:14:44.400 And all the Geronimo means is we are in this position.

01:14:47.840 Now Geronimo happens to mean we are with Bin Laden right now.

01:14:51.980 And Geronimo E.K.A. means we're with Bin Laden.

01:14:54.260 Enemy killed in action.

01:14:55.760 It was.

01:14:56.120 You know, there was.

01:14:57.060 There was.

01:14:58.300 That was the plan because you don't want to be saying, oh, we found him over there.

01:15:02.920 You don't want to communicate more than you have to over the walkie talkies and so on.

01:15:06.000 OK, I get that.

01:15:06.600 All right.

01:15:06.760 So you go to the you go to the first floor and I mean, I'm talking about you.

01:15:10.860 You go to the first floor.

01:15:12.480 And how do you get in?

01:15:14.700 It was already open.

01:15:16.080 My guys had breached the front door.

01:15:18.420 I don't even think they needed to go explosive.

01:15:20.400 I think they just opened it.

01:15:22.180 They had already.

01:15:22.780 There had been a shootout in the guest room, which is behind us, the south.

01:15:26.820 They killed a bar.

01:15:27.860 One of the one of the one of the al-Qaeda couriers.

01:15:30.100 They killed Abu Ghrahmat al-Kuwaiti through the one of the windows and his wife.

01:15:33.960 His wife actually jumped on top of him.

01:15:35.640 She was trying to be a human shield, which is another indicator.

01:15:38.620 Yep.

01:15:38.760 There's an indicator that there's somebody important here.

01:15:41.300 So the door was open when I got there.

01:15:42.620 And I had about eight guys in front of me, eight or nine guys in front of me going down

01:15:45.420 a hallway.

01:15:46.700 And part of my guys toward the end of the hallway from me was a barricaded door.

01:15:50.780 They were breaching it, hitting it with some tools.

01:15:52.720 And then they went explosive.

01:15:54.260 It opened.

01:15:54.920 And then we found a stairwell.

01:15:57.640 And the woman that found bin Laden said, I don't know what it looks like inside the

01:16:01.300 house, but you will find a stairwell.

01:16:03.460 And on the stairwell, you will find Khalid bin Laden.

01:16:06.600 And he's his 20-year-old son.

01:16:08.200 He will be armed.

01:16:08.860 And if you can get rid of Khalid bin Laden, the way she said was, you will get a shot at

01:16:12.580 the big guy.

01:16:13.740 I can't believe she knew that much because that's what happened.

01:16:17.440 She was 100% right about everybody in the house.

01:16:21.180 Holy cow.

01:16:21.840 She knew her deal.

01:16:23.540 She knew her deal.

01:16:24.800 You saw him going from one to two or two to three?

01:16:28.740 I went up.

01:16:30.160 The guy in front of me took care of Khalid bin Laden.

01:16:32.360 There was about seven guys in front.

01:16:33.760 We stepped over Khalid's body and we got to the second floor.

01:16:37.000 And that's when everybody except one guy went to the right and left.

01:16:41.240 They were clearing the rooms to our right and left because there were more rooms.

01:16:43.880 So all the guys in front of you went and started clearing the rooms on the second floor.

01:16:47.180 You were in the back of the line at that point.

01:16:48.780 I was in the back.

01:16:49.400 But then from there, I turned into what we call the number two man.

01:16:52.620 So the number one man is now pointing up the last set of stairs at a curtain.

01:16:56.700 There wasn't a door.

01:16:57.460 There was a curtain.

01:16:58.360 And I became the two man, which means I put a hand on his shoulder to kind of let him

01:17:02.880 know he's got a guy behind him.

01:17:04.100 And when I squeeze him, it means we have enough guys.

01:17:06.780 It's time to go.

01:17:07.640 So he doesn't need to look back.

01:17:08.860 His eyes are front.

01:17:09.580 He's looking forward to control the threat.

01:17:11.760 My job is to look backwards.

01:17:12.860 And then we didn't have enough guys, though.

01:17:15.400 And he just started talking to me like, we got to go now.

01:17:17.780 We got to go.

01:17:18.700 And what he was what he had seen was he saw people behind the curtain moving and he assumed

01:17:24.140 those are the suicide bombers.

01:17:26.420 But we can beat him if we go now.

01:17:30.760 And he's telling me to go.

01:17:32.020 But you're watching.

01:17:32.660 But you're watching these guys go in and out of these rooms on the second floor.

01:17:35.600 And you still don't know whether they're going to find bin Laden in one of those rooms.

01:17:38.260 Well, we didn't.

01:17:39.760 But I knew for some reason, the woman that found bin Laden said he was on the third floor.

01:17:45.120 I knew we had to get up there.

01:17:46.500 And the guy in front of me wanted to go now.

01:17:47.860 And I was like, you know what?

01:17:49.120 Let's just do it.

01:17:49.860 And I squeeze his shoulder.

01:17:51.560 And for me, it wasn't bravery.

01:17:53.100 It was more of a, OK, we're going to blow up now.

01:17:55.300 I'm tired of thinking about it.

01:17:57.680 So I squeezed him.

01:17:58.840 I can close my eyes and see those stairs right now.

01:18:02.360 Going up, he went up the stairs.

01:18:03.580 He moved the curtain.

01:18:04.660 And there were people there that he assumed were the suicide bombers.

01:18:07.820 So he tackled them down the hallway to absorb the explosion.

01:18:12.040 What are you looking at at this point?

01:18:13.420 You're looking at a room or a hallway or setting up?

01:18:15.220 No, a hallway.

01:18:16.420 We went up the stairs.

01:18:17.760 Top of the stairs.

01:18:18.360 He moved the curtain, which is right at the end of the stairs, went into a hallway.

01:18:21.400 He moved down the hallway.

01:18:22.600 And because he went forward, I turned to the right.

01:18:24.980 And that right was right into a doorway.

01:18:27.280 And standing in front of me three feet away was Osama bin Laden.

01:18:31.080 And his hands were on his wife's shoulders.

01:18:33.460 And he's sort of pushing her toward me.

01:18:37.740 And he was a very high threat of being a suicide bomber.

01:18:41.400 He had less than a second to convince me not to kill him.

01:18:44.240 I remember looking at him thinking, he's taller than I thought.

01:18:46.680 And he's a lot skinnier than I thought.

01:18:48.660 And his beard is gray.

01:18:50.720 But that's his nose.

01:18:51.960 And that's him.

01:18:52.560 I've seen that picture a thousand times.

01:18:53.980 He is a threat.

01:18:54.820 He's a suicide bomber.

01:18:55.640 I need to treat him as such.

01:18:56.520 And I shot him twice in the head.

01:18:57.900 And he fell down.

01:18:58.800 I shot him again over the shoulders of his wife, Amal.

01:19:02.100 And then he was down.

01:19:03.540 And then I moved Amal.

01:19:04.940 I moved her out of the way.

01:19:05.880 You can sort of get this sixth sense of who's a threat and who's not.

01:19:08.560 And I could tell she wasn't.

01:19:10.120 And so I moved her towards the wall.

01:19:12.880 And I wanted to sit her on the bed away from bin Laden's body.

01:19:15.720 And as I was moving Amal, I looked down.

01:19:18.460 And bin Laden's two-year-old son was there.

01:19:21.060 And I remember thinking as a father, like the humanity of this, I'm thinking,

01:19:24.320 this kid has got nothing to do with this.

01:19:27.340 And I picked him up.

01:19:28.300 And I sat him down.

01:19:28.940 And other Navy SEALs, now we're coming in the room.

01:19:30.980 I could hear bin Laden taking his last breath.

01:19:32.540 I could smell it.

01:19:33.800 And I was standing there.

01:19:35.260 And a guy came up to me, one of my guys.

01:19:37.240 And he put his hand on my shoulder.

01:19:38.600 And he said, are you OK?

01:19:40.660 And I said, no.

01:19:42.520 What do we do now?

01:19:44.400 And he smiled.

01:19:45.340 I kind of laughed and said, well, now we find the computers, man.

01:19:47.400 We do this every night.

01:19:48.540 Hundreds of times.

01:19:49.220 We always do this.

01:19:49.820 And I said, yeah, you're right.

01:19:51.180 I'm back.

01:19:52.240 And I said, oh, my God.

01:19:53.200 He said, yeah, you just killed Osama bin Laden.

01:19:55.400 Your life just changed.

01:19:56.380 Let's get to work.

01:19:57.960 Oh, my God.

01:20:01.460 Yeah, it was crazy.

01:20:02.740 Did you put him in a body bag right away?

01:20:05.380 Were you worried somebody was going to take him?

01:20:07.200 Because his fighters would not want you to have the body.

01:20:11.380 We took pictures.

01:20:14.380 I was actually the guy holding his head together.

01:20:16.640 If the pictures are ever released, those are my gloves in the picture putting his head together.

01:20:21.060 Took pictures of that.

01:20:22.180 Our Arabic speaker was talking to his kids, his daughters, his older daughters, trying to get them to say who it was.

01:20:29.940 We put him in a body bag.

01:20:31.200 Some of us went to the second floor, started clearing out the offices, all kinds of intelligence, anything from papers to hard drives to thumb drives, compact discs, computers, anything we could fit in bags.

01:20:43.540 We started trying to round people up.

01:20:44.940 I went back upstairs and helped three other guys carry his body down the stairs.

01:20:49.600 I heard the Arabic speaker.

01:20:52.460 He was talking to one of the older daughters.

01:20:54.180 She said in Arabic, yeah, that's him.

01:20:56.220 And she called him Sheikh Osama.

01:20:57.640 You got Sheikh Osama.

01:20:58.380 And that's when we called the ground force commander.

01:21:01.920 And he said over the radio for God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo.

01:21:05.160 We carried Bin Laden's body out.

01:21:07.920 And actually, when we brought him outside of the compound, the sniper that initiated the fire for Captain Phillips to save Captain Phillips, we said, here's your guy.

01:21:15.620 And he looks back because you're kidding me.

01:21:16.840 Like, no, we got him.

01:21:17.540 He's like, let's leave.

01:21:18.300 We, so we, um, the helicopter, they blew up the helicopter that was in the front yard.

01:21:23.580 The helicopter I came in landed.

01:21:25.480 We did.

01:21:25.780 We did that intentionally so that the bad guys couldn't have any, uh, intel or any of the parts.

01:21:29.980 Yeah, we wanted to blow it up.

01:21:31.140 Yeah, we blew it up because we didn't want them getting the technology, um, which sort of worked, but the tail fell over and we saw that.

01:21:38.160 Uh, so they didn't get the tail and abruptly sold it to the Chinese because Pakistan's definitely our ally.

01:21:42.320 But, and then another helicopter came in and, um, we got on that helicopter and, um, and then we left.

01:21:49.900 And so we're flying out on a mission that we're supposed to die.

01:21:53.960 I was just going to say that there is, you can see in that infrared video that we've seen now, the, the body bag, the, the white body bag, or at least it looks white on the, on the camera.

01:22:02.040 And it's crazy to, even for us to look at that and know that that's Bin Laden in there.

01:22:05.620 That's Osama Bin Laden.

01:22:06.420 You think about Obama and you think about McRaven hearing that it's such a great line for God and country.

01:22:12.320 For God and country Geronimo Geronimo Geronimo was that, I mean, is that a thing?

01:22:18.980 Is that the way you say something like that in the military?

01:22:21.240 Why?

01:22:21.400 I mean, or was that an ad lib for God and country?

01:22:24.040 I think that, um, like I said, the ground force commander who said those words to McRaven was born to lead this mission on the ground.

01:22:30.720 And I, I, I bet he had said that in his head a million times since 2001, something like that, that he knew what he was going to say when he was the guy to lead it.

01:22:38.980 He'd always been the guy that was going to lead it.

01:22:40.420 And everyone knew it.

01:22:41.000 I don't know.

01:22:41.460 I don't know what.

01:22:42.320 I don't know how, but we just knew it would be him.

01:22:44.880 That is in the field of one small step for man and one giant step for mankind, giant leap.

01:22:52.740 Uh, so you, okay.

01:22:53.420 So keep going.

01:22:54.000 You, you get, you get on the helicopters and you start getting out of there.

01:22:57.600 Yeah.

01:22:57.920 And even Admiral McRaven and President Obama was thinking, okay, now we got to get them out because everyone knows we're here now.

01:23:04.060 And Pakistan's got F-16s and they're going to scramble them or something's going to happen.

01:23:07.660 We got to leave and we're, we're flying.

01:23:10.240 And again, we're in a position where worrying about getting shot down is not going to help.

01:23:15.080 So I'm not going to worry about it.

01:23:16.220 And all the other guys knew that.

01:23:17.720 And, um, we just started our stopwatches.

01:23:20.180 So we're, we're, we're looking at our stopwatches and we know that it, but we know that it's a, it's a, it's a 90 minute flight.

01:23:26.640 And if we can live for 90 minutes, if we can live for 90 minutes, we can live for 50 years.

01:23:32.540 We get to see our kids.

01:23:33.840 We can do this, but we're not there yet.

01:23:36.520 So you're looking at our, at our watches and it's like, okay, it's been 10 minutes.

01:23:40.240 Now it's been 20 minutes and it's, you know, it's loud in there, but no one's talking.

01:23:43.400 And now it's been 30 minutes.

01:23:44.800 Okay.

01:23:45.000 It's been 40 minutes.

01:23:46.720 And then I love sports analogies just because most sports are team efforts.

01:23:50.500 Um, I'm, I'm thinking about like watching a, a no hitter being pitched at Yankee stadium at the top of the seventh.

01:23:56.360 And the fans are like, you know, I'm not going to say anything, but I don't want to jinx it.

01:24:01.780 Now it's 50 minutes.

01:24:02.860 It's been 60 minutes.

01:24:03.780 It's been 70 minutes.

01:24:05.000 Now it's 80 minutes.

01:24:07.040 And the best sports analogy for this is when team USA hockey was beating the Russians in Lake Placid in the, in the, in the Olympics.

01:24:13.420 And you can, they're not supposed to win this game, but they're up by one.

01:24:16.100 And you can hear the crowd in New York, 10, nine, eight.

01:24:19.840 We're nervous.

01:24:20.480 We can still screw this up.

01:24:21.520 And then at 85 minutes, because we're flying really fast, the pilot came over in that typical monotone voice.

01:24:27.580 The pilots always have a monotone voice because they're trying to keep everyone in the back.

01:24:30.500 Calm.

01:24:30.940 That's what they're doing.

01:24:31.840 Don't worry.

01:24:32.340 We're calm.

01:24:32.980 And the pilot came over and said, all right, gentlemen, for the first time in your lives, you're going to be happy to hear this.

01:24:37.740 Welcome to Afghanistan.

01:24:39.580 Oh, that's it.

01:24:42.120 And that's, that's the high five.

01:24:43.460 At first I thought you're going to say, and he said, do you believe in miracles?

01:24:48.160 See, that would have been better.

01:24:49.260 We should have thought that we're good.

01:24:51.540 I love the piece of the story because now you get there.

01:24:56.800 And by this point, the female CIA analyst and her team must know they've, they're exposed to the information as well.

01:25:04.600 And tell us what you did with her.

01:25:07.700 We, we landed, the other team landed.

01:25:10.460 It was, you know, we're giving hugs to each other.

01:25:12.700 We, I talked to the point man, the guy that led me up to the third floor.

01:25:16.100 And he and I set aside to a corner and had a few words, the whole, what in the world did we just do type thing.

01:25:20.740 And, and then he said, there she is.

01:25:22.540 And there's, there's the woman, they called her Maya in the movie.

01:25:26.280 And he goes, there she is.

01:25:27.120 We, you know, you got it.

01:25:27.660 And he said, you got to give her something.

01:25:29.380 You own this.

01:25:30.360 So we walked over and I pulled the magazine out of my gun.

01:25:33.260 And, um, I said, you have room for this.

01:25:36.360 And your backpack.

01:25:37.220 He said, yeah, I think I do.

01:25:38.680 And then we walked her over to Bin Laden's body.

01:25:40.760 And, and, um, um, in the movie Zero Dark Thirty at the end, they showed her Bin Laden's body and she got emotional and cried.

01:25:48.120 That's not at all what happened.

01:25:49.780 No.

01:25:50.160 She was so mentally strong.

01:25:51.500 No, no.

01:25:51.740 We walked her over and I remember thinking, this is historic.

01:25:55.940 This is like, this is going down in the history of books with Iwo Jima and George Washington crossing the Delaware to fight the Hessians in the Revolutionary War.

01:26:03.520 And she found him.

01:26:04.800 And then I'm looking at her thinking, she gave up her life for this.

01:26:07.280 She, she never got married because she's working 20 hours a day to find him.

01:26:10.840 And there he is.

01:26:11.380 And then me being the arrogant Navy SEAL, I said, um, well, um, I, I got to think of something cool to say.

01:26:17.720 This is a lot of pressure now.

01:26:19.080 And we don't, what do we say?

01:26:20.180 And so, you know, typical Navy SEAL.

01:26:22.480 This is a lot of pressure.

01:26:24.420 So we walk over there and you got to excuse my language, but the story doesn't work without it.

01:26:28.580 We, uh, we looked down and I thought it would have been good enough for this.

01:26:31.720 I said, I pointed at Bin Laden.

01:26:33.460 I said, is that your guy?

01:26:36.120 And she looked down for a second and a half and said, well, I guess I'm out of a fucking job.

01:26:43.500 And then she left.

01:26:44.820 That was it.

01:26:45.340 No cry.

01:26:46.960 No way.

01:26:47.940 She's never gone public.

01:26:50.880 We don't know who this person is.

01:26:52.960 Do you think she'll ever reveal herself?

01:26:55.260 I don't think she will.

01:26:56.440 Um, and I, I mean, I mean, you know, if she, you know, anyone in their right mind would hire

01:27:01.360 her for any job in the world, but I think that's just not her style.

01:27:04.540 She's just completely cool.

01:27:05.860 Completely tough.

01:27:06.460 Very smart.

01:27:07.140 Smartest person I think I've ever met.

01:27:08.540 And just, um, you know, she did it and, and just incredible.

01:27:11.660 And I, you know, yeah, she's, I don't think she ever will.

01:27:14.820 Do we know what she's doing now?

01:27:16.020 I have no idea.

01:27:19.500 So she could still be with the CIA.

01:27:21.680 I could be.

01:27:22.500 I, I thought to her though, cause you know, the movie is pretty accurate how no one believed

01:27:25.920 her and she got a bunch of grief.

01:27:27.520 And as soon as we got Bin Laden, everyone's at an award ceremony getting awards except for

01:27:31.440 her.

01:27:32.060 And I, I talked to her at some point and I ran into her in New York and I said, uh, how'd

01:27:35.560 it go down there?

01:27:36.020 She goes, I didn't even get a parking spot.

01:27:38.000 That, that had to change later.

01:27:42.040 I mean, come on.

01:27:42.540 I was doing so.

01:27:43.640 Yeah.

01:27:45.160 Okay.

01:27:45.520 The conclusion to our episode is right after this.

01:27:48.140 Don't go away.

01:27:52.840 There's so many heroes in this whole thing.

01:27:55.560 I love that you point out, you know, the guys who flew the helicopters, you know, like

01:27:58.760 there's so, so many people who have gone rather unsung in this and it's to your credit

01:28:03.220 to give the credit away.

01:28:05.200 Um, so can I, we just jump forward now you've done it by the way, did, did you ever have

01:28:10.780 a conversation with your mom about like, when did you get to reveal to her?

01:28:14.660 I, I did, um, because we, well, we, we brought the body up to Bagram airfield.

01:28:21.120 So the, the smart guys, the, uh, federal law enforcement and intelligent agencies could

01:28:26.300 do the proper DNA test did confirm it.

01:28:29.660 Uh, we're standing there.

01:28:31.020 Um, bin Laden's body is right next to us as we're eating these sandwiches.

01:28:35.080 He's right here getting tested.

01:28:36.540 And we saw president Obama walk out.

01:28:38.520 We're watching the news.

01:28:39.440 He walked down a red carpet and I'm standing there and I hear president Obama say tonight,

01:28:45.780 I can report to the American people and to the world.

01:28:48.160 The United States conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of

01:28:52.000 Al Qaeda.

01:28:53.060 I hear president Obama say, Osama bin Laden.

01:28:56.440 I look at Osama bin Laden.

01:28:58.720 And I take a bite of my sandwich and I thought, how in the world did I get here from Butte,

01:29:03.300 Montana?

01:29:04.240 Right.

01:29:04.760 The taco pizzas.

01:29:06.180 Not long before.

01:29:07.760 Yeah.

01:29:08.120 Right.

01:29:08.900 And so, yeah.

01:29:09.500 So, and then, uh, so obviously everyone knew I did get a chance to call my mom and,

01:29:13.220 uh, they, I couldn't say anything cause I was still in Afghanistan, but I said, mom, you

01:29:16.060 remember how, um, I said, I'd never get a silver star.

01:29:20.020 Yeah.

01:29:20.360 I'm sorry.

01:29:20.740 I think I'm probably going to get another one.

01:29:22.200 And then she laughed and I'd always been joking with my mother, um, cause she sort of knew

01:29:26.720 what happened.

01:29:27.460 And, um, I'd always joke with her, even when I was playing basketball in high school and

01:29:30.260 college, even when I went to the Navy, I always joke with her and say, mom, don't worry about

01:29:33.760 me.

01:29:34.120 You don't need to worry because I'm here to do something special.

01:29:36.520 Don't worry about me.

01:29:37.300 Blah, blah, blah.

01:29:37.900 And I always joke with her.

01:29:38.820 Hey, you know, we're in Iraq.

01:29:39.660 Don't worry about me.

01:29:40.220 Mom, I'm fine.

01:29:40.920 I'm here to do something special.

01:29:41.860 On this call, I said, Hey mom, by the way, you can start worrying about me because I think

01:29:45.220 I just did that special thing.

01:29:46.300 Oh my gosh.

01:29:48.180 I mean, now that, that, that has to be the moment you're like that.

01:29:52.100 Now this is the apex.

01:29:53.700 This is the moment.

01:29:54.840 Forget everything.

01:29:55.720 It's surreal.

01:29:56.460 Surreal.

01:29:56.860 And just, I just want an honor to be a part of that amazing team, uh, to, to be in the

01:30:01.020 presence of that intelligence team, to fly with those pilots, to, to listen to Admiral

01:30:05.260 McRaven, who like, if you've never to your listeners that, uh, listen to the speech,

01:30:09.780 uh, make your bed when he, when he talks to the university of Texas, that it's got 20 million

01:30:14.340 views on YouTube.

01:30:15.400 Oh my God.

01:30:16.300 That's the one where I heard, uh, I'm a public speaker.

01:30:18.140 I heard that.

01:30:18.540 I was just jealous.

01:30:19.380 I can't believe I didn't write that.

01:30:21.900 He, he's got a special gift with them word things.

01:30:24.580 He is, he is incredibly worthy.

01:30:27.500 But hearing you and hearing this story, I mean, this is why most of us, I certainly love

01:30:33.440 our, love our U S military.

01:30:36.140 You guys are the ones who make me feel everything.

01:30:41.160 When I look at that flag, I think about stories like this.

01:30:43.420 I think about courage.

01:30:44.340 Like you had, I think about the brotherhood.

01:30:45.840 I think about the sacrifice.

01:30:47.540 I feel gratitude.

01:30:48.940 I love our country.

01:30:49.920 I love our flag.

01:30:50.620 I love you guys.

01:30:51.280 I love what you stand for.

01:30:52.140 I love what you, you make me feel like I'm a part of, you know, that that's, you are the

01:30:57.100 ones who make us stand up and say, yes, yes.

01:31:00.540 This is what it means to be an American.

01:31:02.240 This is what, this is what the stars and stripes mean, right?

01:31:04.880 It's like, and this is why it is infuriating when people don't see it.

01:31:11.360 And when you see these Gallup polls, the patriotism is at an all time low.

01:31:15.200 And you see people out of the streets this past summer saying America is a failed experiment

01:31:19.540 and the, and there's shame in some quarters at displaying the U S flag.

01:31:25.160 I know what, what will you tell me?

01:31:28.140 What do those people need to know?

01:31:30.300 Well, what they need to know too, first off is because one of the things they're worried

01:31:33.240 about, they say domestic terrorism.

01:31:34.860 They're talking about radicals in the U S military, which is so undermining and so insulting

01:31:40.260 to everyone there because it doesn't matter.

01:31:42.260 Everything from, from, from, well, especially race doesn't matter when you raise your hand,

01:31:47.100 you're defending each other.

01:31:48.100 When, when I was getting out of the Navy, one of, um, one of the big things, so this

01:31:52.560 is back in 2012 was don't ask, don't tell us, repeal it.

01:31:55.220 I was looking at my guys.

01:31:56.220 I was in Afghanistan.

01:31:57.140 I said, do any of you guys really care if anyone's gay?

01:32:00.700 No, I don't care what, I don't care what you do.

01:32:03.400 I don't care what you look like or where you're from.

01:32:05.300 We took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies.

01:32:08.000 And that's what the, that's what the military does.

01:32:10.040 And the vast majority is just like that red, white, and blue.

01:32:13.400 That's what everyone's like too.

01:32:14.640 It's a shame to see them try to try to pin everyone against each other, especially

01:32:18.080 in the military.

01:32:18.640 These are great people, men and women right now who are over there doing what needs to

01:32:22.260 be done.

01:32:22.800 And it's just, just morale is huge.

01:32:25.220 Morale is so key.

01:32:26.160 Everything from sense of humor to knowing what you're doing and why, and just to, to throw

01:32:29.840 the sideshow out there for, for, for political points is it's, it's sad to see it, especially

01:32:34.880 during, you know, this, this, uh, upcoming Memorial day.

01:32:38.340 Um, it's just, you need to remember what's important.

01:32:40.380 It's just the people next to you.

01:32:42.300 Well, and I hate to go this low with you because I just see you as such an elevated guest,

01:32:46.620 but, um, I do have to ask you about the ridiculous woke military ad that, uh, the army put out,

01:32:52.880 which I, not the one that was spliced and diced with, it was sort of showed our soft ad next

01:32:59.040 to these Russians training and looking tough.

01:33:01.060 That was BS.

01:33:01.740 That was Russian propaganda.

01:33:02.560 But the ad, the, the American piece of it was real, which I did not know.

01:33:07.600 I was like, wait, no, that has to be put together by Putin.

01:33:10.220 He's just trying to show us as, you know, non-threatening, which of course is not what

01:33:14.560 Putin thinks.

01:33:15.560 Um, but that the American piece of that ad was real.

01:33:19.740 And for those of you at home who haven't seen it, we're going to play it.

01:33:23.100 Listen, this is the story of a soldier who operates your nation's Patriot missile defense

01:33:29.080 systems.

01:33:29.940 Although I had a fairly typical childhood, took ballet, played violin, I also marched

01:33:43.180 for equality.

01:33:44.840 When I was six years old, one of my moms had an accident that left her paralyzed, but

01:33:49.540 she tapped into my family's pride to get back on her feet.

01:33:53.560 Eventually standing at the altar to marry my other mom.

01:33:56.360 But as graduation approached, I began feeling like I'd been handed so much in life, a sorority

01:34:02.880 girl stereotype.

01:34:04.460 I needed my own adventures, my own challenge.

01:34:09.380 And after meeting with an army recruiter, I found it a way to prove my inner strength

01:34:15.400 and maybe shatter some stereotypes along the way.

01:34:20.620 Okay.

01:34:21.200 So we, we pulled the highlights from the ad, but I mean, look, I'm all for female empowerment.

01:34:25.160 I think my audience understands that, but I don't need to hear about her, her ballet,

01:34:29.460 her violin and her two moms and her sorority past to be inspired about our U.S. military

01:34:34.120 or to get any young woman, I think, in America to join.

01:34:38.080 Yeah, I don't think that's any part of it.

01:34:39.680 Again, we all have different backgrounds.

01:34:41.380 That's fine.

01:34:41.840 And you can, I have a big, I'm a libertarian.

01:34:43.680 You do whatever you want, as long as you're not hurting anyone else.

01:34:46.000 The problem I see here is this is the gateway to experimentation, but the military doesn't

01:34:51.060 need to be.

01:34:51.540 And what that means is they want to, I'm all about equal opportunity, equal opportunity

01:34:56.220 to show up.

01:34:57.240 And if you can't meet the standards, I'm sorry, you just couldn't meet the standards.

01:34:59.720 That's fine.

01:35:00.200 But once you start lowering the standards, that's where the problems come in.

01:35:03.980 You know, I know, I know women right now that I'm thinking of that can kick my butt and

01:35:07.280 I'm not even making that up.

01:35:08.520 And that's fine.

01:35:09.100 But we don't need to lower the standards to get more, if the best person flying the

01:35:15.820 S-18, if the top five out of 20 happen to be Asian females, fine.

01:35:20.260 I want those five flying the jets because they're the best.

01:35:23.260 And that's what we have to do.

01:35:24.120 We equal opportunity, keep the standards high, but you don't get equal outcomes.

01:35:27.500 And the problem is we're just, they're experimenting on the military for some reason.

01:35:30.700 And even in the, it's not as tragic in the military.

01:35:33.600 I do know people who are getting out early because a lot of the political correctness, but

01:35:37.280 most of the, like the young guys, I've got nephews that join the army, they kind of roll

01:35:40.700 their eyes at it.

01:35:41.420 And they'll ask me as a, well, the old man now, you know, what's the point of this?

01:35:45.140 And I'm like, I don't know.

01:35:45.780 You should be on the range trying to get your, trying to get your, your, your scope sighted

01:35:49.660 in.

01:35:50.320 Can you imagine if you guys, as you were boarding those, those helicopters that were like,

01:35:54.360 okay, do we have someone who's black, someone who's a lesbian, someone who's trans?

01:35:58.640 Like, let's make sure we're selecting.

01:36:01.420 There are, there are things that are fine in life, but they're not, you know, it should be,

01:36:05.620 you know, I suppose who's qualified go.

01:36:07.520 That's it.

01:36:08.260 And it's not, it's not complex.

01:36:09.740 The military is not complex.

01:36:11.100 Like I, like I said, the complexity comes with the intelligent people.

01:36:13.920 Like I said earlier, I'm smart enough to carry a hammer and a gun, point me in the direction

01:36:17.720 I will go.

01:36:18.560 I can climb the fence.

01:36:19.420 I can go through the window.

01:36:20.320 That's it.

01:36:21.140 It's not, it's not complicated.

01:36:22.900 It doesn't matter that I'm from Montana and couldn't swim.

01:36:24.860 I'm just, here we are.

01:36:26.020 Well, that's the thing.

01:36:26.940 Everybody has different skills.

01:36:28.240 I mean, you've, you've been pretty clear about Maya playing an awfully important role in finding

01:36:32.520 Bin Laden and having the, the, the design of his compound down to the, to the step on which

01:36:38.400 you'd find his son.

01:36:39.380 I mean, this is obviously a brilliant woman.

01:36:41.220 Why, why are we not okay with different people have different skills and they can make the most

01:36:45.520 of them and they can be important in different ways.

01:36:47.800 Why do we have to say that the guys who we need to be the strongest physically and the biggest

01:36:52.560 risk takers when it comes to physical confrontation generally happen to be men.

01:36:56.420 That's fine.

01:36:56.980 That is not diminishing to women.

01:36:58.260 I, people have feminism completely confused that their definition of feminism, what it

01:37:02.960 means to empower women doesn't mirror my own at all.

01:37:05.220 I think most sane people think that, but you know, we're going a different way now.

01:37:08.820 I was shocked to see that from our military.

01:37:10.400 I was shocked to see, um, that they're flying the BLM flag now at our bases, at our military

01:37:17.080 bases, and that this was approved at the highest levels.

01:37:19.340 That's a political message.

01:37:21.000 Why is our military doing politics?

01:37:23.100 I don't understand that either.

01:37:24.200 I think at a certain level, especially the general officer level, you're appointed by certain

01:37:28.700 people in Congress and everything becomes political and you need to tell the party line

01:37:31.620 or the politically correct line or else you're not going to get a job.

01:37:34.260 And at some point it becomes too personal selfishness.

01:37:38.580 What do I need to do to make myself better?

01:37:40.780 What do I need to do in Congress?

01:37:41.820 Same thing to get paid more to, to, to, how's the pork going to help my district in this

01:37:46.480 infrastructure package.

01:37:47.460 So I get reelected.

01:37:48.680 And, uh, I mean, the issue is to it.

01:37:50.600 And, uh, you know, we, we need to get some of the junior officers to be in charge because

01:37:54.500 we've been pretty good at everything except winning a war.

01:37:57.080 Maybe we're doing something wrong.

01:37:58.140 Uh, you know, we, we had a war that we should have won in 2004 and we're still not out of there.

01:38:02.860 Um, I, I, I don't know.

01:38:04.440 It's not someone wants to get promoted.

01:38:06.320 So they bring in something more ridiculous that we need to check the block.

01:38:08.620 Like we thought it was ridiculous.

01:38:09.960 Now that, uh, you know, when, before we go to war, I had to go to dental to make sure

01:38:13.800 my cavities were updated.

01:38:14.700 Now it's got to make sure you have all this, um, this political science online stuff done

01:38:20.560 before you can go to Syria.

01:38:22.160 And it's making you do sensitivity training or you have to take anti-bias training now.

01:38:26.840 Oh, they're doing everything.

01:38:28.020 There's stuff that's so ridiculous.

01:38:29.200 I, I, I like that, that commercial that was just out as the tip of the iceberg.

01:38:32.380 I wanted to believe for a week it was fake.

01:38:34.600 Like, I hope that Russia's did this because if you think, if you think Russia, Iran and

01:38:38.480 China are looking at us and thinking there's, there's America leading the way they're laughing.

01:38:42.640 Oh my God.

01:38:43.260 When they see the violin, the violin and the ballet.

01:38:45.560 I mean, well, it's, it's completely not representative.

01:38:48.220 I mean, the ad and its tone and its approach made the military sound like some sort of effete

01:38:53.240 place you can go, you know, where you're going to see a little ballet dancing around it.

01:38:56.840 And the American military is exactly the opposite.

01:38:59.840 It is the toughest, most severe, most threatening, most powerful fighting force in the world.

01:39:05.700 And as you point out, not perfect.

01:39:07.860 History may not be a hundred percent clean, but 99% of the time we're the good guys.

01:39:12.780 And we, we are always aiming to do the right thing.

01:39:15.900 We are the good guys and we are the most powerful military in the world.

01:39:18.840 And, and again, everything is more dramatic, um, on online and on, as you know, on, on cable

01:39:24.660 news, we'll get the most ratings.

01:39:25.620 Most people out there are really doing a great job.

01:39:28.040 Our military, our air force, Navy, Marine Corps, uh, it's phenomenal.

01:39:31.380 And, and as opposed to being afraid of what they're doing, they're, they're more of a

01:39:34.420 roll your eyes.

01:39:34.860 Like, are we seriously doing this before we go over there?

01:39:37.060 But, um, I'm, I'm very confident with this, this military was designed to fight bigger

01:39:41.500 militaries and we could destroy anyone in the world if we want to.

01:39:44.100 The only reason we haven't is because we're the good guys, but a lot of the sensitivity

01:39:47.760 training, you know, it's fine on the university campus, even though I disagree with it.

01:39:51.320 Um, black lives matter has been hijacked by Marxists.

01:39:54.100 We know that I'd like black lives just matter, but now these white liberal markets taken

01:39:58.100 over, just keep that out of the military, off the embassies.

01:40:01.000 Um, you know, uh, uh, forward defense, alliance, solidarity, and deterrence.

01:40:05.520 That's what we need to do as a military.

01:40:06.880 What do you, I think it's interesting.

01:40:08.940 You say you're a libertarian cause I know you're not a partisan guy.

01:40:10.900 I saw you tweet out Democrats aren't the answer.

01:40:12.620 Neither are Republicans.

01:40:13.720 Wise up in response to which I said, amen.

01:40:16.820 Yes, that's how I feel too.

01:40:18.460 But, uh, I was surprised that I, I will confess.

01:40:20.840 I kind of thought you were a Republican.

01:40:21.960 I thought you were, I think you were a Trump supporter, although I, I don't totally remember

01:40:24.940 my history on that.

01:40:25.840 Uh, but what, why do you say neither party is the answer?

01:40:30.200 Well, I'm, I'm conservative as far as, um, you know, do your own thing.

01:40:33.780 The government needs to keep, you know, stop taking my money to give it to all these social

01:40:37.300 programs.

01:40:38.060 Um, you know, the economy, other stuff, uh, a big business.

01:40:40.540 I think that if, you know, pay your people what they deserve, I believe in paying my employees

01:40:44.880 more than, you know, just take care of your people.

01:40:46.980 Um, but as far as like the liberal side of it, like, like I said about don't ask them

01:40:51.100 self, fine, whatever, you're good.

01:40:52.480 I don't care.

01:40:53.060 You do what you want to do as long as you're not hurting someone else.

01:40:55.620 I'm fine with that.

01:40:56.540 Don't lie to yourself, admit what you're doing and do it.

01:40:58.780 It's fine.

01:40:59.200 Just don't affect anyone else.

01:41:00.540 So I'm, I'm on both sides.

01:41:01.560 I, um, and I've spent a little bit of time in Washington on Capitol Hill.

01:41:05.760 That was one of my first jobs up there.

01:41:07.160 And just, I've just seen, I'm, I'm a big believer that, uh, a lot of narcissists go there and

01:41:11.480 there's no shame and, and politicians will say anything they can to get reelected.

01:41:14.740 So I don't, I think the two party system is wrong and there's, there's gotta be, most

01:41:19.000 of us are in the middle.

01:41:19.780 We just don't have the platforms anymore.

01:41:21.920 That's right.

01:41:22.700 Welcome to my show.

01:41:24.240 Um, you, I got to get you to comment on what you point out, you know, about the war, about

01:41:30.400 the war in Afghanistan.

01:41:31.400 Uh, we are, we're officially pulling all of our troops out.

01:41:33.980 Uh, they're saying it's going to happen in July and the Taliban is, is openly saying

01:41:39.200 we won the Taliban.

01:41:40.860 We, the Taliban have won.

01:41:42.400 We've defeated America.

01:41:43.580 Um, what do you make of that?

01:41:46.080 Did they, did they win?

01:41:47.600 And what do you make of the fact that already, uh, there's news just today that the Taliban

01:41:51.160 attacks are picking up there right now and what's going to happen there?

01:41:54.180 Well, we knew that was going to happen.

01:41:55.260 And it doesn't matter what you do.

01:41:56.400 They're going to say they won.

01:41:57.280 You just saw Hamas recently said they beat Israel.

01:41:59.340 That's what they do.

01:42:00.280 And they can shout it from the rooftops, which they will.

01:42:03.340 But we just did, we went about it the wrong way.

01:42:05.480 We did it the right way when we invaded, when we bombed them, we kicked them all into Pakistan.

01:42:08.860 Um, the problem that we had is we, we were not nation builders.

01:42:12.820 We shouldn't have Marines driving through these roads, trying to build schools, get them

01:42:16.560 hard, keep up, maintain a presence of air superiority.

01:42:19.140 If they set up the camps, you bomb them, get them really, really hard.

01:42:21.740 Look them in the eye and say, no, you do that again.

01:42:23.880 We're coming back.

01:42:24.700 We're not going to make peace.

01:42:25.720 We're not going to bring Jeffersonian democracy there.

01:42:27.680 They don't want it.

01:42:28.420 They want their valleys.

01:42:29.240 If Taliban knew that we were going to, we were just coming for Al Qaeda, they would

01:42:32.540 have given them to us.

01:42:33.240 They just, they thought we were a paper tiger.

01:42:35.240 Um, but we're not going to, we're not going to stay in there and force them to do it.

01:42:38.000 If we, if we can't teach them to fight in 20 years, they're never going to learn to

01:42:41.460 fight.

01:42:41.880 Yes.

01:42:42.180 The warlords are going to take over again.

01:42:43.600 It's going to happen.

01:42:44.320 It happens every single time back to Alexander the Great.

01:42:46.840 We knew it.

01:42:47.400 We got to be smart about being stupid.

01:42:49.000 We're not going to sit there and turn it into the United States.

01:42:51.720 Do you see terrorist attacks going up as a result of this, you know, long haul, once

01:42:56.000 they get their act back, back together and get resettled there and don't have to worry

01:42:59.860 about military, U S military on the ground.

01:43:02.420 No, I mean, we're, we're going to, we're going to maintain a presence and probably an

01:43:05.300 embassy.

01:43:05.540 So we'll have Bagram airfields.

01:43:06.820 We'll have some stuff in Jalalabad for cross borders.

01:43:08.700 We'll be able to launch jets and bomb them.

01:43:10.900 But I mean, they're already doing this and they're in Yemen, they're in Syria, they're

01:43:13.840 in Iraq, they're in Sudan.

01:43:15.300 Al Qaeda is the whole nail, the jell-to-the-wall thing.

01:43:17.760 They're not, we just get front side focused on Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan.

01:43:21.480 Afghanistan was one in 2004.

01:43:22.860 I was driving motorcycles up and down the street in Jalalabad and eating shawarmas

01:43:27.060 in the bazaar.

01:43:28.760 We just, we stay, if you stay long enough, regardless of your intentions, you will be

01:43:32.480 seen as an occupier.

01:43:33.640 And that's where we're at now.

01:43:34.680 I mean, giving them, we don't need to tell everyone when we leave and we can do what we

01:43:38.160 want.

01:43:38.380 You can just leave.

01:43:39.100 You don't need to say, and certainly don't say September 11th we're leaving.

01:43:42.000 Just leave.

01:43:43.100 And, and, and you know what, if, if, if you, if you know that the Americans are going to

01:43:47.560 protect you, but then we're going to leave and you're going to get massacred, maybe that's

01:43:50.720 incentive to finally learn how to fight for yourself.

01:43:53.680 Hmm.

01:43:54.160 Yeah.

01:43:54.440 Cause that was the original statement by the abide administration.

01:43:56.520 We're going to leave on September 11th.

01:43:57.840 And then people are like, really, you're giving us a set date, you know, just so you can have

01:44:00.960 a spike the ball moment.

01:44:01.760 And then he moved it to July.

01:44:03.760 Can I just ask you a quick question about Israel?

01:44:05.380 Because as somebody who, you know, we are the good guys.

01:44:07.740 And I, when you hear the full Rob O'Neill story, you'll hear about how you and other

01:44:11.120 troops while in that compound, I know you took care of a little girl who was standing

01:44:14.740 there alone.

01:44:15.240 You got her to an adult, you bin Laden's two year old son, you put him on the bed and made sure

01:44:18.740 he was out of harm's way as much as he could be.

01:44:22.820 There's been a lot of discussion about whether Israel's response to the Hamas rockets was

01:44:26.640 disproportionate, whether they should have, it was not proportional, I should say.

01:44:31.520 And, and whether they had an obligation to be more protective of civilians, even though

01:44:37.440 those civilians were put in harm's way by Hamas, that's documented.

01:44:40.420 The people who criticize Israel would say, we don't care that they were put in harm's

01:44:44.180 way by Hamas.

01:44:44.920 Israel is supposed to be the good guys.

01:44:46.040 And Israel should have been not so severe and should have taken extra pains and should

01:44:50.260 have sort of gone easy, given the number of civilian deaths.

01:44:53.260 So your thoughts on that?

01:44:55.100 Well, Hamas doesn't have to tell the truth.

01:44:57.020 They like to lie.

01:44:57.700 And they know the more Palestinian children that die, the better for their cause, because

01:45:01.480 they will get the, I don't know what it is about the media worldwide.

01:45:04.880 They love Hamas.

01:45:05.880 I don't know what the deal is.

01:45:07.160 They, they hate Israel.

01:45:08.200 They love Hamas.

01:45:09.080 And I mean, figure out how many Hamas is randomly shooting rockets that fall short and kill

01:45:14.000 Palestinian children.

01:45:14.980 That happens all the time.

01:45:15.900 They can blame that on Israel.

01:45:16.920 And then in their, in their media centers and where they're launching missiles, they happen

01:45:20.960 to put them in schools and hospitals and put human shields and children in there,

01:45:23.760 which is horrible.

01:45:24.260 I feel horrible for the Palestinian people because most war zones I've been in, there

01:45:29.660 are just people trying to get on with their lives.

01:45:31.280 And that's the Palestinian people.

01:45:33.220 Horrifying.

01:45:33.840 It's Hamas that's the problem.

01:45:34.880 They're going to lie about everything.

01:45:36.120 If Israel was going to do too much, they would level the entire place and kill everyone

01:45:40.620 which they could.

01:45:42.000 They're the ones, they're the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

01:45:45.560 They're the only ones really not expanding the way other countries are.

01:45:48.840 They're not the bad guys.

01:45:50.000 All you need to do is tell yourself the truth.

01:45:51.440 If, if, if, if Israel put down their guns and threw them in the, in the Mediterranean

01:45:55.260 sea tomorrow, there'd be genocide.

01:45:57.040 If Hamas did it, there'd be peace.

01:45:58.940 Like, it's not hard to see that, but for some reason they want to spin everything.

01:46:02.160 And, and, and, and the, the poor Palestinian children, man, they're, they're just, they're

01:46:05.420 being used by the media, used by Hamas.

01:46:07.600 And yeah, Israeli bombs kill them.

01:46:09.320 And I hate that.

01:46:09.860 I mean, I believe me as someone that's seen war and people at its worst, I wish we could

01:46:14.140 all hold hands and have peace.

01:46:15.580 I would love it.

01:46:16.240 And it's just, it's, it's, it's tragic to see, but it gets spun so bad to the point that makes

01:46:20.300 Israel look like the aggressor.

01:46:21.560 Okay.

01:46:21.860 There's the land thing, but how far back does that go?

01:46:24.700 Yes.

01:46:24.960 The Palestinians were there, but I'm pretty sure Jews were there a long, long time ago

01:46:28.100 too.

01:46:29.120 And look, I mean, look at Jerusalem, you have Christians, Jews, and Muslims all living in

01:46:32.680 peace.

01:46:34.240 It's, it's very possible.

01:46:35.540 It's Hamas.

01:46:36.040 It's Hamas and the radicals that are, that, you know, it's, it's, it's, um, like people

01:46:40.600 aren't born to hate.

01:46:41.640 They're taught to hate.

01:46:43.200 And that's this part of the problem that Hamas is doing with a lot of these people

01:46:45.780 over there.

01:46:46.360 It's, we're, this, I mean, we're, we could be close to peace over there.

01:46:49.320 It's heartbreaking to see that, that honest people are just trying to live through this

01:46:53.060 stuff.

01:46:54.240 I know.

01:46:54.620 And it's just never ending.

01:46:56.180 All right.

01:46:56.440 So let me shift gears and end it with this.

01:46:58.420 Um, you're out of the military now.

01:47:00.400 So what are you doing?

01:47:01.180 How do you pay the bills when you leave the military?

01:47:03.680 Um, I started as a public speaker.

01:47:05.860 I speak with leading authorities out of, um, Washington, DC, and it wasn't a, um, show

01:47:10.380 up and tell the demand story is more of a, what did we learn as a successful team?

01:47:14.380 What traits are common to success and how does that apply to you?

01:47:17.380 And the very, very basics, you know, keep it simple is, uh, your team will work harder

01:47:20.900 if morale is high.

01:47:22.460 If people know what they're doing and why effective communication, you know, when you're

01:47:26.260 done saying what you're saying, stop, stop saying it.

01:47:28.980 And, um, no matter what, never quit.

01:47:31.240 Um, and, and so I give speeches on that.

01:47:33.680 I did start a foundation called special operators transition foundation, which helps special

01:47:38.900 operators go from the military to the private sector.

01:47:41.980 Cause when I got out, I had no idea.

01:47:43.360 What am I going to do now?

01:47:44.340 Sell sunglasses or t-shirts or whatever.

01:47:46.280 And I learned that I had traits that I learned working with men and women in special operations

01:47:51.260 that people want to hire.

01:47:52.480 So my foundation helps those men and women transition to get their careers.

01:47:57.560 That's awesome.

01:47:57.920 Can I ask you that?

01:47:58.480 Let me follow up on that.

01:47:59.760 Um, and I'll give you the floor, but, but do you, do you see?

01:48:03.680 A lot of PTSD in these warriors?

01:48:05.720 Do you have it?

01:48:06.420 You know, how, how does that factor in?

01:48:08.080 I think we skip over that too, too often.

01:48:10.820 Um, I do, I know I have it and a lot of people have it.

01:48:14.580 And the problem with PTSD is it normally shows up about six years after the fact when the,

01:48:20.060 the realization that what we were doing is not normal.

01:48:23.160 And, um, we didn't, and they'd really asked a lot of us and it comes with, um, everything

01:48:28.140 from, um, thinking, depressing thoughts to sometimes nightmares, not necessarily about

01:48:33.320 war, but just on edge.

01:48:34.900 Um, and a lot of guys get into the depression, which leads to self-medication that leads down

01:48:38.960 a bad path.

01:48:39.960 So, um, the, the, I tell people now that you, you, you probably have some form and the way

01:48:45.320 to handle it is to really talk to someone.

01:48:47.220 And, and what I mean is I recommend a therapist, but also if you're having a, if you're having

01:48:51.660 a bad day, call someone and if you're having, you know, cause they might be having a good

01:48:55.060 day, but if you're having a good day, call someone cause they might be having a bad day

01:48:58.700 and you're having a good day, you know, just, it's okay to get it out there that, uh, this

01:49:01.980 is not, it's not normal to do a lot of stuff we did.

01:49:04.400 So the PTSD is there, but it's manageable.

01:49:07.360 Um, uh, you know, again, with a sense of humor.

01:49:10.560 Yeah.

01:49:10.980 I like that.

01:49:11.740 I like that a lot.

01:49:12.420 And I'm sorry, were you going to say something else that you're doing?

01:49:14.740 Uh, I didn't, I cut you off.

01:49:16.760 No, I just said that that's the foundation.

01:49:18.800 Um, and then, uh, you know, I obviously wrote the operator.

01:49:22.140 I'm, I'm collaborating with Dakota Meyer, Medal of Honor recipient Marine, a book that

01:49:26.140 we're hopefully coming out with soon.

01:49:27.380 I have it at the Pentagon, which is the right thing to do.

01:49:29.700 If you're going to ever write a book, make sure you get it approved.

01:49:32.120 So you don't give up tactics that'll come out.

01:49:34.040 And that's more of a, what next?

01:49:35.800 Like, what do we do now?

01:49:36.620 Cause like I said earlier, you know, everyone's got their first day, but everyone has their last

01:49:40.420 day.

01:49:41.280 Um, and what do we do now?

01:49:42.540 Like, like when people say to me,

01:49:44.200 Oh, of course.

01:49:46.200 Yeah.

01:49:46.300 That'd be great.

01:49:46.660 I'll have Dakota with me too.

01:49:47.560 He's, he's, he's hilarious.

01:49:48.620 But like when people say, well, what's the seal?

01:49:50.340 Always a seal.

01:49:50.940 I'll say, no, I wasn't seal.

01:49:52.200 Now I'm not.

01:49:52.940 We just, you move on.

01:49:53.780 Like I was in high school and I'm not, and I wasn't seal.

01:49:55.900 Now I'm not.

01:49:56.580 We all have to move on.

01:49:57.580 Like you retire, you can retire for 20 years in the military at 39 years old.

01:50:02.600 Your life is just starting.

01:50:03.860 What do we do now?

01:50:04.400 Mm-hmm.

01:50:06.280 So, okay.

01:50:07.100 So picking up on, on, um, something I heard, there's a Fox news documentary that I saw with

01:50:13.220 Peter Doocy when shortly when you first came out.

01:50:16.200 Um, and it was a good, it was a good question and it was an interesting answer.

01:50:20.400 And I, I wanted, I wondered if there was an update to it because in that exchange, you

01:50:25.760 said you weren't sure if killing bin Laden was the best or worst thing to ever happen

01:50:29.660 to you.

01:50:30.680 Yes.

01:50:31.160 What are your thoughts on that now?

01:50:33.020 Well, at the time I didn't know what it was because, um, no one's really ever, ever done

01:50:38.900 this before.

01:50:39.440 I remember even someone said, wow, this is kind of like if we hired the guy that killed

01:50:43.340 Hitler.

01:50:43.600 And I said, well, Hitler killed himself.

01:50:44.980 And they said, exactly.

01:50:45.900 I'm like, okay, that's deep.

01:50:46.900 That's pretty deep.

01:50:47.820 Um, I don't know.

01:50:48.900 It, it, it was, I, it's been the best thing when I donated the shirt that I wore into

01:50:55.200 bin Laden's bedroom to the nine 11 Memorial museum in lower Manhattan.

01:50:58.620 And when I, I donated it anonymously, just so people could something tangible that was

01:51:05.300 there.

01:51:05.600 I never wanted it to be about me, but when I donated it, they had about 30, um, family

01:51:10.000 members there.

01:51:10.640 And they said, having a, a real face, tell us, you know, they lost family members.

01:51:15.140 They said a real face with what happened.

01:51:17.100 There will never be closure, but this helps with the healing and to see their emotional

01:51:21.080 response.

01:51:21.560 If I can tell more people what happened, I can help more.

01:51:25.200 So that that's worth it.

01:51:26.300 But then there's the other side too, with the, the, you know, we get conspiracy theories

01:51:30.780 from the far right wing because, um, they, they just hate, they hate that, um, the president

01:51:37.280 Obama ordered the mission.

01:51:38.620 And so they want to say it was a fake.

01:51:40.160 It was, you know, it's all like president Trump retweeted some QAnon, all this nonsense

01:51:43.920 and people say like, you're lying.

01:51:46.020 You didn't kill bin Laden.

01:51:46.800 I'm like, you know what?

01:51:47.240 I sometimes wish I didn't.

01:51:49.340 I'm just telling you what happened.

01:51:50.500 So I don't know.

01:51:50.960 I mean, it was great for the world.

01:51:52.080 It was great for, for the coalition, great to prove that we can do it.

01:51:55.140 But it's, um, you know, sometimes it'd be better.

01:51:56.940 Sometimes I'd rather just be out, you know, playing really bad golf.

01:52:00.240 Mm-hmm.

01:52:01.820 There, there was a story I read about a man coming up to you with his grandson and that

01:52:07.780 man's son had died on nine 11.

01:52:11.160 What did he say to you?

01:52:13.220 He said, um, my grandson always asked me, why did God do this?

01:52:18.060 And, uh, the grandfather said, God didn't do this.

01:52:21.600 The devil did.

01:52:22.340 And he looked at me and said, you sir, killed the devil.

01:52:25.140 So that was pretty deep.

01:52:26.360 You sure did.

01:52:28.940 And we, we are grateful.

01:52:30.940 This is a grateful nation.

01:52:32.040 No matter what these morons who are too young to understand anything about our history say

01:52:36.080 in the streets, it is a grateful America loving nation.

01:52:38.900 Still, I believe that.

01:52:39.880 And the polls do reflect that the majority of people still feel that way about our country.

01:52:43.860 So last question on this Memorial day, as we, as we honor the fallen, many of whom you've

01:52:49.680 known and served beside, what do you love about America?

01:52:54.420 Uh, what I do love about America.

01:52:56.360 Memorial day to us, people realize it's not, uh, a lot of people realize it's not just

01:53:01.480 a three day weekend.

01:53:02.320 And it's not for the veterans.

01:53:03.460 It's for the fallen.

01:53:04.640 It's for everyone that died.

01:53:05.920 You know, the 173 women that died in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, uh, all the, all the men that

01:53:10.320 died there as well.

01:53:11.380 Um, that it's not just a three day weekend, but it's also not to be, you know, yeah, have,

01:53:16.100 have your moment of silence, have a tear.

01:53:17.640 But then when you drink that beer, that glass of wine, tilt it up, uh, look at the sky and

01:53:22.280 realize that they want you to do that, that they died for the freedom to do that.

01:53:25.640 And they would do the same thing in your shoes.

01:53:27.600 And, uh, um, I, uh, again, as opposed to going on Twitter, when you go outside on Sunday and

01:53:33.660 Monday, look at, look at America, look at the people notice the American flag is everywhere

01:53:36.880 you go to and everyone respects it.

01:53:38.920 It's just, you know, not for ratings, just for love of the country.

01:53:43.640 Rob O'Neill, a true American hero.

01:53:46.060 I'm proud to know you.

01:53:47.400 Thank you so much for spending this time with us.

01:53:50.040 Thank you, Megan.

01:53:50.880 And, uh, we'll do this again when, when I get Dakota on here for the next book.

01:53:54.540 You are booked.

01:54:00.020 All right.

01:54:00.600 So I hope that was as meaningful to all of you as it was to me.

01:54:03.660 I, I can't wait to share this one with my kids and to share the meaning of Memorial

01:54:07.960 Day with them.

01:54:08.620 The privilege it is to be an American, to live in this great country and to have guys

01:54:13.400 like Rob O'Neill out there defending our freedoms, right?

01:54:16.560 Take a moment to, to say, thank you, to remember, to be humble, to be grateful and enjoy your

01:54:22.240 loved ones and your friends and your time together.

01:54:24.680 That's what it's all about.

01:54:25.920 I'm thinking of all of you.

01:54:27.160 I'm very grateful to all of you for listening and God bless America.

01:54:30.280 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:54:33.560 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:54:37.780 The Megan Kelly show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 31, 2021

Robert O'Neill on Killing Bin Laden, Life Lessons from SEAL Training, and American Unity ｜ Ep. 109

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