The Megyn Kelly Show - Russell Brand on His Upcoming Trial and Past Mistakes, Addiction, His Past Marriage to Katy Perry, and Finding God

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00:00:29.180 connexontario.ca. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at

00:00:35.640 New East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and what a show we have

00:00:46.660 for you today. Russell Brand is here and this is going to be unlike anything you've ever seen here

00:00:52.220 on the MK show. We first met several years ago on my set at NBC where he came out and, uh, at the

00:00:59.800 time was full of energy and a huge star. And even back then, I remember said something like, you're,

00:01:07.460 you're far less polarizing than people tell me you are. And we bonded immediately. He's of course

00:01:14.660 a British comedian. He's an actor. He's immediate personality. Uh, and he knows a thing or two about

00:01:19.560 being polarizing now himself, unfortunately. Rising to fame back in the 2000s as a stand-up

00:01:24.980 comic and landing high-profile roles in Hollywood films like Forgetting Sarah Marshall and Get Him

00:01:30.100 to the Greek, not to mention the animated blockbusters Despicable Me, Trolls, and Minions.

00:01:36.060 He appeared on TV shows, comedy programs, and landed on the front cover of The Rolling Stone.

00:01:41.900 How about that? As an iconic image of him. And he was further catapulted into the headlines

00:01:46.900 with his high-profile marriage to pop star Katy Perry.

00:01:50.300 Everyone wanted to know every detail about their lives.

00:01:52.900 They were one of the it couples of the decade

00:01:54.760 until the marriage ended a couple of years later in divorce.

00:01:58.760 In recent years, he's reinvented himself

00:02:00.580 as a host and a commentator,

00:02:02.260 amassing millions of followers and content

00:02:04.580 focused on politics, media criticism,

00:02:07.240 and what he describes as threats to free speech,

00:02:09.220 particularly during the COVID pandemic

00:02:11.500 where he was absolutely fearless,

00:02:14.140 questioning government policies,

00:02:15.640 big pharma and mainstream narratives in a way few were, and it was bold and it was noticed by the

00:02:22.860 British government. Brand has also spoken openly about his personal turn towards spirituality and

00:02:27.600 Christianity, saying that his faith has given him a sense of peace after years of struggling

00:02:32.160 with various forms of addiction, about which he is very open. But there have been some serious

00:02:38.120 allegations against Russell too, and he is set to go on trial in the UK later this year. We're

00:02:43.000 going to get into that as well. Nothing's off the table today. As the investigations and public

00:02:47.380 debate continue about him, he remains as outspoken as ever. And now he's out with a brand new book.

00:02:54.320 It's called How to Become a Christian in Seven Days. May take 50 years of sin and serious fuck 1.00

00:03:00.800 ups to get started is the subtitle, which is pretty spectacular. Great title. Here's a question 0.98

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00:04:26.580 Russell Brand joins me live here in the Red Studio. Great to see you.

00:04:30.640 Thank you. Thanks for having me.

00:04:31.760 Thanks for coming.

00:04:34.040 Okay, so it's been a while.

00:04:36.500 What has it been?

00:04:37.100 Eight years since we last saw each other.

00:04:39.340 Yes, I remember where you were in the culture then

00:04:41.840 is I feel that you've previously been on Fox

00:04:43.860 and then you came on to having your own show

00:04:46.280 and I feel like it was you moving

00:04:47.700 from being a news-oriented person

00:04:49.840 to let's have a daytime version of you

00:04:53.600 with celebrities and the culture.

00:04:56.000 But I feel like there's a lot of kind of excitement

00:04:57.700 around you at that time.

00:05:00.220 And so while I was preparing, I mean sort of mentally and spiritually to come and meet you, I was thinking that both of us have moved through the culture in ways that are comparable, have been very close to its sort of what one might call its centre.

00:05:14.800 Because I was going to use the word heart, but heart doesn't seem quite the right word for the culture because heart is perhaps what it's most lacking.

00:05:21.000 And it's exciting and interesting to speak with you because I know that you will recognise themes and trends that I've experienced.

00:05:29.920 Yes, very much so. I mean, watching your evolution has been very interesting to me because I didn't know you other than as a celebrity back then. But when you came onto the set, you had so much energy, positive energy. You were so kind. And I was in the midst of a terrible year there because it didn't go well for me at NBC. I wasn't liked by virtually any celebrities. And yet I found myself immersed in them.

00:05:52.000 and it was so rare to have somebody come on the set

00:05:55.240 and be so nice to me and like so complimentary.

00:05:58.860 And I remember being like, I love Russell Brand.

00:06:01.360 And actually somebody asked me a couple of years after that,

00:06:03.740 who was my favorite celebrity who I met,

00:06:05.700 you know, in my time at Fox and NBC.

00:06:07.320 And I said, Russell Brand, because you were so warm.

00:06:10.200 You were so nice.

00:06:10.960 You acknowledged the thing about being polarizing.

00:06:13.380 You said, you're actually quite lovely.

00:06:14.580 And I remember we had a laugh over it.

00:06:17.000 And now, you know, as I've watched you go through

00:06:19.260 your, you know, past few years and become this scourge of a certain section, I feel for you

00:06:25.620 because they're doing it to you. Same stuff they've done to me. As soon as you get political,

00:06:31.200 especially right-wing political, boy, they come for you. Are you able then, I wonder, Megan, to

00:06:37.540 whilst, because I suppose the impression I had when I met you, I was wondering why I would have

00:06:42.460 a prejudice before meeting you. Where would I have gotten that from? And I suppose there are

00:06:46.900 some assigned cultural figures that you're allowed to like if you're a participant in the culture

00:06:52.480 and then there are other people that are meant to be kind of pariah or that you're not meant to

00:06:57.580 approve of or like and I reckon I suppose that I came in there as part of a Hollywood liberal set

00:07:03.200 even though like that kind of liberalism would not be the values that I grew up with

00:07:07.320 in a way what I'm starting to feel now is a connection to actually where I'm from and kind

00:07:11.900 of who I've always been that when you get sort of pulled into fame it does an interesting thing to

00:07:16.880 you because any sense of deficiency inferiority can be sort of temporarily medicated by the

00:07:23.080 attention the soothing balms the soothing balms of synthetic glory like if they will give you a

00:07:29.420 kind of you're amazing because in addition it's not like everybody didn't like you on NBC you

00:07:33.060 were sort of a glorious enough individual to have your own sort of show and everything and I said

00:07:37.580 So, you know, what I'm going through now is acknowledging and addressing

00:07:43.400 how I have contributed to the conditions that I am experiencing

00:07:48.840 and what lessons are available.

00:07:50.800 And they're pretty obvious and pretty evident.

00:07:53.620 The complexity only being in the small portion that is framed

00:08:00.600 by illegality and criminality.

00:08:03.420 There's a very small margin.

00:08:04.480 Almost everything else I would entirely agree with.

00:08:07.580 own and you've been self-reflective on. I want to talk to you about so much of it because

00:08:11.340 my next phase of you, well, I watched you during COVID and I loved all that. And I thought you've

00:08:16.680 got, he's gotten very brave and very outspoken in a great way. Then came all the allegations,

00:08:21.300 the sexual alleged sexual assault and rape and so, and it first came in this UK quote documentary.

00:08:27.520 And they use that term very loosely there and here. And I'll tell you upfront, I was angry

00:08:33.100 when I saw that because they did it in such a compelling way that, especially the stuff about

00:08:38.120 the 16-year-old, that I was angry with you. I believed what they said, or at least believed

00:08:43.840 that there was enough smoke, there might be fire, and said to the audience at the time,

00:08:50.720 you know, the conservative movement doesn't need somebody like that. Like, we love what he's

00:08:55.420 saying about COVID, but if this is a guy who's sexually assaulting women and taking advantage

00:09:00.120 of 16-year-olds, we need to move on without him, and felt that anger for a couple of years

00:09:06.720 around you, because I just thought it was so reckless, and it was so wrong. And I knew that

00:09:14.360 it might be false, but it seemed overwhelming, the way that they presented the evidence.

00:09:19.820 And then the more I looked at it, the more I started to recognize I might not know the full

00:09:24.940 story, because since then, I have seen what the British government has done, what my own

00:09:30.040 government has done to certain figures that it doesn't like. And I have an enormous amount of

00:09:37.540 open-mindedness to you are being railroaded and attacked by people for reasons having nothing to

00:09:43.940 do with actual facts, but with your right-leaning stance on certain issues, your growing prominence

00:09:50.320 as a figure in a bunch of discussions that they find very threatening. And honestly, I just

00:09:56.940 re-evaluated the whole thing and thought I need to be open-minded to having been wrong in my

00:10:02.040 initial assessments. And I'm interested in a conversation about it all. Thank you, Megan

00:10:05.580 Kelly, for giving me the grace to address in particular your anger, which is entirely legitimate

00:10:10.820 and recognizable. And the plain fact of it is, is that in Europe and in the United Kingdom where

00:10:16.700 I'm from the age of consent is 16 and I did sleep with a 16 year old when I was 30 but when I was

00:10:24.580 30 I was a very different person I was a lot younger and I was an immature 30 year old

00:10:30.780 consensual sex actually with a variety of people when there is a strong power differential as there

00:10:37.580 is when you're a famous man that has the ability to attract women that I had at that time I think

00:10:44.040 involves exploitation i think it is exploitative i recognized that my sexual conduct in the past

00:10:51.060 was selfish and uh i didn't i did not apply enough consideration barely any i suppose

00:10:59.640 really to how that sex was affecting other people the only matter that i would contest

00:11:07.420 while acknowledging firstly your right to be angry with as a woman who given what i know

00:11:12.880 about you in the industry you've worked in I'm sure that you have personal reasons for feeling

00:11:16.460 aggrieved towards powerful men because in spite of occasionally men coming to the forefront of

00:11:22.140 the culture whether it's the most hideous gargoyle villains as rendered and portrayed or the more

00:11:29.540 sort of innocuous and party boy style exploits of women a category that I suppose I must fall into

00:11:36.140 it's a it's plainly something that exists within our industry and one might say culture at large

00:11:42.820 while I was transgressing lines of being a person that was sleeping with people because I had

00:11:47.900 availability to not only by the way waitresses and strippers and fans and people but like you 1.00

00:11:53.200 know powerful women as well like powerful professional women that had gravitas and status 0.94

00:11:57.920 and power I was only really thinking of myself and obviously this is I have to be careful of

00:12:04.420 contempt of court because that's a law in my country where I can't say anything publicly

00:12:09.980 that might in any way influence a potential jury.

00:12:14.140 But obviously, as soon as I've said, I'm not guilty,

00:12:16.340 what I'm in effect saying is I had consensual sex 0.77

00:12:19.000 with lots and lots of women. 0.75

00:12:20.440 And you can argue that that's not appropriate.

00:12:22.500 But the age of consent is an important thing.

00:12:24.760 The ability to consent is an important thing,

00:12:27.420 like i.e. drunk people can't consent,

00:12:29.520 mentally ill people can't consent, 0.99

00:12:30.880 children can't consent.

00:12:32.700 Consent is what's important.

00:12:34.820 And what fame gave me and what addiction fuelled 0.99

00:12:38.220 was opportunity for endless consent, which led me to be a hedonist and a fool and an exploiter of 0.99

00:12:46.080 women. And that is wrong. And that is something that needs to be redeemed and addressed and atoned 0.99

00:12:53.220 for. What I'm obviously not only querying, but violently or aggressively or assertively opposing

00:13:00.880 is the idea that this is a judicial criminal matter where consent was overridden.

00:13:06.340 actually what happened was is consent was directed that's what being famous and being

00:13:12.580 if i may say forgive me charismatic affords you is the ability to direct consent that doesn't

00:13:18.580 mean it's right it's actually not right it's wrong it's a sin it's an expression of selfishness and

00:13:23.440 false idolatry i provided a lot of material through my foolishness and my selfishness around women

00:13:29.620 that meant that when i became not a person that was celebrated by the culture as a representative

00:13:34.700 of individualism hedonism you're the most important thing in the world there's no essentially acting

00:13:40.300 like if there is a god you're it that's what the culture wants you to believe it doesn't want you

00:13:44.760 to have a higher higher authority to which you submit that none of us have control over but we

00:13:49.380 don't actually we're not the final say on what's right and wrong god is the final say now i have a

00:13:55.840 trial so in that trial i'll have the opportunity as will people that feel wronged against to achieve

00:14:01.420 justice and I have no problem in praying for absolute justice and the best possible outcome

00:14:05.980 for everyone involved and indeed that is my prayer Megan because however I look at this or carve this

00:14:09.980 up there are people that feel hurt enough to participate in this venture now as to the second

00:14:14.540 part of what you're saying why did it happen when it happened because a documentary was made that

00:14:19.520 framed my very explicit public behavior in a particular way I believe that there is a strong

00:14:24.680 connection between when it happened and what I was doing publicly I'd moved from being

00:14:29.180 acting in movies and being on tv and writing books and essentially advocating for the kind

00:14:35.400 of cultural values that most people within the institutions of power and entertainment power

00:14:40.840 endorse and espouse to being quite critical of them openly critical of the pharmaceutical

00:14:45.780 industry the british government bureaucratic agencies that have unelected power that we

00:14:50.200 often are taxed for and are funding and and in covid i really started to find a voice for

00:14:55.900 something i'd long felt that real power is inaccessible to ordinary people i'd got into a

00:15:00.840 lot of controversy and trouble in around 2015 when i was thinking of running for mayor of london

00:15:05.200 when i'd said there's no point voting for anybody because whoever you vote for you're going to get

00:15:08.600 the same institutions and boy does that seem apposite and perspicacious now yeah when we have

00:15:15.360 a very powerful and idiosyncratic and seemingly self-empowered individual as the leader of your

00:15:22.560 country, the most powerful nation in the world, who many people believe is currently fulfilling

00:15:28.240 an agenda that is not endorsed by the American public. And many people also believe it's not

00:15:33.300 even in the best interests of the United States of America. So if someone as powerful and magnetic

00:15:38.780 and idiosyncratic as Donald Trump can be maneuvered by invisible institutions of deep state

00:15:44.960 international power that are not beholden to the populations of the nations that they are elected

00:15:49.420 to represent then all of us are participating to some degree or another in sets of powers and

00:15:55.580 interests that do not like to be challenged and are difficult to challenge whatever one thinks

00:16:00.320 about this current conflict one thing i pretty strongly believe is if kamala harris had been

00:16:04.900 elected you would still have this war with iran in more or less the same way and that's what's

00:16:09.520 kind of disheartening about it is that power is going to do what it's going to do in fact when

00:16:13.760 you reflect even for a minute it's ridiculous to think otherwise otherwise true global power

00:16:18.180 would have to pivot every four years to accommodate significant variation depending on which

00:16:23.420 on which political party got elected the likes of kissinger players on the world stage have always

00:16:29.560 known you need 20 year 30 year 50 year 100 year american projects and it's very interesting to

00:16:34.800 know that the the project of the next american century included we're going to have wars with

00:16:38.640 iran we're going to have wars with lebanon iraq north korea afghanistan you can tick all those

00:16:43.880 nations off and most people that have been paying attention have already conducted that exercise now

00:16:47.860 what the pandemic provided, I suppose, was an interesting window where for a moment there was

00:16:53.200 an attempt to assert global control, not even national control. You remember, we all do at the

00:16:58.640 beginning of the pandemic. They said, well, in China, of course, with their social credit scores

00:17:02.980 and their centralized communist control, they can immediately submit an entire population.

00:17:08.000 But you try that in the United Kingdom or Italy or Lord above forbid the United States of America.

00:17:13.120 Well, what happened? They were more or less able to assert that level of control in what is

00:17:17.280 superficially a very different political system explicitly democracy and yet when it was the

00:17:22.740 lockdowns when it was you can't worship when it was take these vaccinations people generally

00:17:27.020 speaking obeyed the only problem was that with a decentralized media that's not controlled by the

00:17:33.280 same resources and forces as customary media there were voices like joe rogan most obviously and

00:17:39.880 evidently, who I suppose framed and platformed significant and more importantly, authoritative

00:17:47.680 voices around the vaccine. I'm talking about McCulloch, Robert Malone, Jay Bhattacharya,

00:17:52.900 people who blessedly now, one positive of the current administration, are in government under

00:17:56.580 the HHS of Secretary Robert Kennedy. Now, outspoken critics of the COVID pandemic, people that said,

00:18:02.740 how can they possibly research these vaccines? How can we know what the side effects are? Did

00:18:06.440 they even test for transmission they once these threads start getting pulled we know that cove

00:18:11.020 that companies like moderna and pfizer spent a good deal of money observing and doing their best

00:18:15.960 to de-amplify what they called anti-vax voices in my country for example megan there's a group

00:18:21.800 called the 77th brigade they're a psyops organization run by a man called mark lancaster

00:18:27.160 who's married to dame caroline dynage who she's the one who tried to stay for you on the very

00:18:31.840 first day on the very first day that these unsettling and disturbing allegations were made

00:18:37.020 Caroline Dynage whose works for the government was ready to say X should demonetize Russell

00:18:41.960 Brand Rumble should demonetize him YouTube and the YouTube of course did now when did Caroline

00:18:49.080 Dynage even learn the nomenclature of CPMs and programmatic ads well perhaps it's possible to

00:18:57.140 imagine in a nancy pelosi and paul pelosi type way perhaps some information crossed the marital bed

00:19:02.820 because her husband mark lancaster runs the 77th brigade they are and you can look at this now

00:19:07.820 online to ensure that what i'm telling you is at least somewhat accurate the 77th brigade are a

00:19:12.340 psyops organization that operate in partnership with the with the military in countries like

00:19:17.320 syria and afghanistan when those nations are occupied and internal dissent has to be quashed

00:19:22.740 and controlled an online organization such as we saw in the arab spring has to be managed and

00:19:28.160 manipulated that includes de-amplifying online messaging intercepting controlling shutting down

00:19:33.260 and all sorts of things that we don't understand because we simply don't know the technology

00:19:36.400 normally psyops of that nature are not able to be practiced domestically it's illegal but in the

00:19:42.780 same way that they found a way around surveilling citizens using the five eyes and i understand from

00:19:47.880 netanyahu there is now a sixth eye in israel the five eyes get around that problem the five eyes

00:19:53.400 being the anglophonic nations canada the united states america new zealand australia the uk by

00:19:58.680 spying on one another's citizenry and sharing information that way the u.s doesn't break any

00:20:03.380 of its internal laws about spying on its citizens and neither does the uk and yet the information

00:20:08.320 is acquired the information to control people as edward snowden revealed at the time they have all

00:20:13.200 the information they need on you so if in one in one day in the future you become an enemy of the

00:20:17.620 state they will find something with which to criminalize you if that should be required god

00:20:23.480 forbid that that is ever required in anyone's life but if it happens they've got the information

00:20:27.140 so 77th brigade were allowed to do that in the uk because covid was treated as some of you will

00:20:32.480 remember and it was extremely advanced in your nation as a kind of military exercise a kind of

00:20:37.120 war now i only know this because i was reading the good work of other journalists and reporters

00:20:43.580 and independent media contributors at the time and that meant that most of us a significant number

00:20:48.880 of us had a very different picture of covid in real time than the one we were being offered

00:20:52.880 by the very institutions that you and i worked for megan where on late night tv you know the

00:20:59.460 likes of stephen colbert were dressing up as a syringe and dancing around where i remember

00:21:04.580 another late night show by my fellow brit and um you know a person i have good affection for

00:21:10.540 James Corden, dancing in the street, celebrating Anthony Fauci.

00:21:14.240 Who now would celebrate Anthony Fauci in the same manner,

00:21:16.560 knowing his involvement with the HIV crisis?

00:21:19.100 Trump.

00:21:21.040 Still defending him.

00:21:22.900 So I suppose, you know, that was rather a long answer,

00:21:24.900 but it was a complex question.

00:21:26.360 And I want to thank you for having me on

00:21:29.420 and give me the opportunity to address the thing that's troubled me most about this

00:21:32.220 is I have obviously through my conduct hurt people.

00:21:35.600 It's not criminal conduct.

00:21:37.240 It's not right.

00:21:37.780 In fact, to use the phrase that they use to censor people on X these days, awful, but lawful, I think is what I say.

00:21:45.980 It's not right to sleep around with lots of people.

00:21:48.560 I say that not only as a father of daughters, but of a son.

00:21:51.400 I don't want my children growing up thinking the apex of your human power is having a lot of sex with people. 0.84

00:21:57.480 Sex is a very powerful thing.

00:21:59.040 It's a gift.

00:22:00.140 And I misused it.

00:22:01.380 And I understand now that there are consequences to that.

00:22:04.400 Can we talk about we can circle back on the on the allegations, but let's just talk about how you got to be you, because I have a terrible mistake.

00:22:13.280 Megan, what's happened? Having read more about your background, your whole story came into more clear focus for me.

00:22:21.620 So it wasn't an ideal childhood. Your dad wasn't really present.

00:22:26.280 Your mom went through a lot while you were young, and forgive me for raising it so casually, but you also were the victim of sexual abuse, my understanding is.

00:22:34.960 So that's a lot for anybody's first 18 years.

00:22:38.480 How would you describe your childhood?

00:22:41.200 Well, I suppose because I have the blessing of being in 12-step recovery now, I encounter people on a daily basis that have suffered enormously, enormously.

00:22:50.160 and i have the privilege of very uh dedicated imperfect parents like my children have got very

00:22:56.880 dedicated and imperfect parents my father ron brand he did his best but he was on his own mission

00:23:01.900 he lost his own father when he was a baby when he was seven years old my mother as you've alluded

00:23:06.640 to had cancer about five six seven times in a very short time frame that was in my childhood and

00:23:11.040 you're right i did experience some sexual abuse um outside of the family when i was uh very young

00:23:17.840 when I was seven and then again when I was a teenager um now because I'm aware that my doting

00:23:23.380 loving parents god love them my dad in particular he'll watch he'll be watching this live if he

00:23:27.780 knows I'm on it like I don't want to prioritize my own self-aggrandizement and my tendency to

00:23:35.200 mythologize myself and to sort of lean into this idea that I come from a humble blue collar

00:23:41.540 background and I overcame heroin addiction and crack addiction and all of that some of those

00:23:47.160 things are true because now i recognize that who i've always been and who i am now is a broken

00:23:52.080 person who my parents are a broken people and i was talking to my mom on the phone here and she's

00:23:56.260 like this you know my mom who loved me was so happy when i've got to be famous because she

00:23:59.700 thought oh look it all makes sense now that weird little kid that i was raising now he's famous and

00:24:03.980 like look everyone loves him or you know at least some people love him um yeah so my childhood was

00:24:09.580 chaotic and it was difficult and it was hard and i've always always felt desperately desperately

00:24:15.460 alone and exiled here and broken and a lot of the time very very afraid and very very unhappy in the

00:24:21.660 world and frankly when i became a drug addict it was a tremendous relief and any drug addict

00:24:27.740 watching this or alcoholic will recognize what i'm saying it was the first time life made sense

00:24:31.780 was when i was able to medicate internally and chemically the feelings of total abandon and

00:24:36.600 loss here and that's really nobody's fault because i know people that have grown up in care and

00:24:41.040 foster homes and with unbelievable horrific suffering and i know people that have grown up

00:24:46.180 in opulence and splendor when did the drug start because i know you you found acting in high school

00:24:51.460 yes and so when did the drug start after that yeah immediately after it's almost you recognize

00:24:56.040 in your own life megan two tracks running simultaneously one where you're being guided

00:24:59.640 by sort of almost one might say a heavenly hand and the other sort of pulling you back i sort of

00:25:03.960 started smoking weed like any kid at 15 16 then it just escalated i had such an appetite for it

00:25:10.160 every single drug well this is what i think might be somewhat significant is that i treated it like

00:25:14.880 worship like i worshipped drugs i worshipped it i loved taking cocaine i loved heroin i was

00:25:21.600 fascinated with heroin before i ever took it i really thought this is gonna be it this is gonna

00:25:25.980 solve everything i was around the first time i took it was 19 i was dependent on it by the time

00:25:30.820 i was i reckon 22 23 i got i got my first like real gig was i started hosting shows when i put

00:25:37.480 on a 24 25 on mtv this was before i knew i was they were late at night i was in nightclubs

00:25:42.140 and i would talk to people that it was when club culture was a big deal in europe and people taking

00:25:45.800 like ecstasy and mdma molly you call it in your country i think and like people were off their

00:25:50.260 faces and i would say like crazy stuff to them because i was high also but i was able to follow

00:25:55.380 these very surreal and unusual rants what people didn't know is that while they were on ecstasy i

00:25:59.260 was on crack and heroin and that was my first like little go at being famous and having money and not

00:26:03.920 living on welfare and i exploded into that little life so quickly that i you know i hit a ceiling i

00:26:10.260 hit parameter i crashed and burned real fast to the point where just i don't know it sounds like

00:26:15.000 it was just prior to this but you you did your first acting gig in high school then you went to

00:26:19.000 the royal academy of theater what do you call it what's the name of it interrada is what you're

00:26:22.700 alluded to and i still feel a pang of disappointment even to hear its name mentioned i went to a place

00:26:26.460 called drama center which is a very good school where people like pierce brosnan and simon

00:26:30.220 and Callow. And who are these stars nowadays? Fassbender, Tom Hardy, like good actors went

00:26:36.680 there. So like a very gritty Stanislavski based school. I went there and they loved me. They

00:26:41.120 adored me. Then I went crazy. I took too many drugs. They threw me out. I could get thrown

00:26:44.420 out of everywhere. Thrown out of the UK, thrown out of Hollywood, thrown out of every school I

00:26:48.840 was ever at. But you kept landing on your feet. So you were young, you were in your young 20s when

00:26:53.040 you found the glory of these drugs, which of course is always followed by something. I don't

00:26:58.680 know what we call it but it's the opposite of glory and how long did it take you before you

00:27:02.240 got clean off the drugs and sort of the sex addiction took it took their place oh well the

00:27:07.140 sex addiction i have to say was you know like i got concurrent yeah but it gets worse without drugs

00:27:14.000 you know because obviously there are impeding factors with if you're if you're dependent on

00:27:18.420 heroin without going into too much graphic detail there are a number of obstacles to a successful

00:27:22.760 sex life um but like i stopped taking heroin when i was like 27 and stopped drinking and by god's

00:27:28.180 Grace became abstinent one day at a time through the 12-step programs, which are really the

00:27:32.440 foundation of my spiritual life, thank God, because that's where you first learn that it's

00:27:35.960 not really drugs you're addicted to. You're addicted to yourself. You're addicted to this

00:27:39.640 particular perspective. You're addicted to control. You are so obsessed with who you are and what you

00:27:44.980 want that you can't really be of any use to anybody in this world. That's what I learned

00:27:48.940 anyway. But I only learned it briefly. And the thing is, is once I stopped taking drugs, my life

00:27:54.140 improved radically in a number of ways. I became successful in my country. I got a bunch of

00:27:57.960 tv shows and became quite celebrated in fact one might say it really took off like a rocket

00:28:02.660 and there was a moment of real glory don't you remember megan wasn't there a bit when you first

00:28:07.140 started to be successful it's like oh my god it's working i'm successful people see me a world that's

00:28:12.300 continually saying no is now just saying yes yes yes you can host these awards you can have a book

00:28:17.380 deal you can have your own shows it was so amazing when that happened but i think probably because of

00:28:23.260 what I would now call a sort of false idolatry, I easily, or cross addiction might be an easier

00:28:28.860 term, I drifted into just the worship factor, that tendency to worship really drifted into

00:28:35.360 the availability of, you know, casual encounters. I mean, can you describe, because when you write

00:28:41.000 about it in the book, you're very open about these addictions and the sex addiction details.

00:28:46.340 By the way, we're speaking with Russell Brand and the book is How to Become a Christian in Seven

00:28:50.080 days. You, you put it out there. And I, one of my questions was like with the number of women who

00:28:57.960 you openly talk about having interludes with at a time in a day, several times a day, like this is

00:29:05.700 all before you were young, but like there was no little blue pill. Like how does a man even

00:29:09.840 keep up at that level? I have a real appetite for what I recognize now is God. And that's not unique

00:29:15.680 to me. I think anyone that is an addict, and this is how the 12 step program describes it, Megan,

00:29:20.080 really they are looking for god we are all looking for god we were made for god and by god we were

00:29:25.800 made to love god now if you live in a culture and a world that denies the existence of god

00:29:30.600 i personally was trying to defibrillate the dead and inert world into life through chemicals at

00:29:39.280 first and then you know sex is a gift and sex used appropriately is a marvelous and wonderful 1.00

00:29:45.240 and holy experience but sex in the hands of an idiot is a sort of a dangerous tool so how i did 1.00

00:29:51.520 it is i've got a lot of energy i've got a lot of yes we can see that and a lot of gifts and but 0.99

00:29:57.260 those gifts must always be marshaled to the service of the highest good and if you don't know that and

00:30:02.780 you use it essentially for self uh indulgence you will get in as it turns out very very serious

00:30:08.880 trouble you will get in very serious trouble and you will hurt a lot of people wow just the other

00:30:12.880 day in a 12 step environment i heard someone say that when you drink a bottle of jack daniels the

00:30:17.940 bottle that once you put it down doesn't have any feelings about it when you start to do stuff like

00:30:22.540 that in other areas of behavioral addiction obviously sex is what i'm referring to then

00:30:27.320 you are creating a lot of ill will have you ever tried to put a number on the number of women who

00:30:32.860 you've still got the fox skills there i'm curious the fox skills get a number get a stat um well

00:30:38.960 all right let's think about this mathematically there was a sort of a period between like you

00:30:42.260 I think I became sort of attractive in the late 90s,

00:30:44.820 and I think that that attractiveness endured

00:30:46.740 until possibly in 2015, let's say.

00:30:50.960 Megan, we are talking very high numbers.

00:30:53.320 We're talking four figures, and it's difficult,

00:30:56.460 particularly if you want to include all of the varieties

00:30:58.620 of sexual contact, then it would be...

00:31:00.860 So thousands.

00:31:01.580 Thousands, thousands, thousands.

00:31:03.060 It was my main job.

00:31:04.240 I was very, very devout. 0.99

00:31:05.460 It was very foolish. 0.98

00:31:06.560 My main job. 0.98

00:31:07.160 I can even feel a little smile curling at the corners of my lip,

00:31:10.220 even as a person is facing trial.

00:31:12.260 In October, I'm still like, yes, I did very well.

00:31:14.760 I've still not learned the lesson.

00:31:16.020 I have learned the lesson.

00:31:17.240 I've learned the lesson, Lord.

00:31:18.740 I have learned the lesson.

00:31:19.400 Yes, well, we're talking about sex here.

00:31:20.900 We're not talking about sexual assault, which is very different.

00:31:23.540 Well, but it's still sex is sacred. 0.85

00:31:25.780 Sex is sacred. 0.99

00:31:26.660 And pornography desacralizes sex. 0.97

00:31:29.600 Promiscuity desacralizes sex, making sex the apex of your identity, 0.93

00:31:33.700 whether you're a heterosexual or not. 0.90

00:31:36.220 It desacralizes sex.

00:31:38.080 It's a holy power that I misused.

00:31:40.340 So you write, you go on a deep dive on your sexual escapades in the book, and I'm just going to read a little bit from it.

00:31:47.760 Again, it's called How to Become a Christian in Seven Days with Russell Brand. 0.75

00:31:50.800 I had sex with multiple women, often at the same time, most days for years. 0.83

00:31:54.600 It was normal to have three ways and four ways, and for women who had not met prior to fold into one flesh in my bed.

00:32:01.160 It happened every day. 0.91

00:32:02.380 Here are a few occasions that stand out that will help you understand the levels of excess, the sheer abundance and implausibility,

00:32:07.580 the pointlessness of coercion, meaning you never had to nor did coerce anybody to do this with you,

00:32:14.380 as well as the hollow sadness that is an inevitable accompaniment to all forms of

00:32:19.540 addiction and sin. Such an important point, the hollow sadness. You write,

00:32:24.580 after a transatlantic flight from LA, I invited the whole female flight crew back to my house. 1.00

00:32:31.020 They came, they drank, we all messed around, some of them were married or in relationships, 1.00

00:32:35.940 I felt like an alchemist. I could create ecstasy out of mundanity. When I would tell my male

00:32:41.320 friends these stories, especially older married ones, I felt so valuable and impressive. Now I

00:32:45.860 see things very differently. After a show at the Brixton Academy, the female cast of a popular 0.98

00:32:50.180 reality TV show tumbled out of the after party and poured into my hot tub with no more fanfare 0.99

00:32:55.580 or fuss than I once would have tipped the contents of an instant soup into a mug. There were at least

00:33:01.720 five of them, a couple were sisters, as if some dormant part of me were, at least some dormant,

00:33:09.220 as if some dormant part of me, alive only in Christ, already knew the man I would become,

00:33:13.760 the challenges and trials I would face, and the significant fact that I myself would one day be

00:33:17.940 a father to daughters. The apparent mad and hedonic glamour was haunted by something I

00:33:23.840 couldn't understand. So this is a fascinating picture because this is the kind of stuff that

00:33:29.380 everybody dreams a famous man, a successful actor, host, comedian, rock star, whatever life

00:33:35.900 will look like. But they don't acknowledge that second piece of it, that it actually is the same

00:33:42.400 as doing heroin or being an alcoholic, that there's a downside of shame, disgust, and never

00:33:50.020 being able to fill the thing you're trying to fill inside of yourself. Yes. If God wants you and God

00:33:54.880 loves you and God does then you will feel this presence even at times where you think it unlikely

00:34:01.600 and that I suppose is in my book because I recollect it so clearly that it seemed on the 0.87

00:34:08.060 surface like everything you would want in the most ridiculous male fantasy that you can be offered

00:34:13.880 multiple attractive women simultaneously you as the adored center and focus and in the midst of

00:34:21.460 that I sensed something kind of a bit icky and death-like and obviously in retrospect as I've

00:34:28.700 said oh I see what that is now what you are creating for yourself and for other people

00:34:33.520 is suffering and you are making yourself into this is what I understand it as now Megan

00:34:38.880 is making yourself a kind of God gifted as I have been with the ability to connect I could help a

00:34:45.740 lot of people I could help people I didn't recognize that or see that I have an opportunity

00:34:51.800 to be of real value to live a life of actual meaning of meaning these things oh man I was

00:34:58.320 once at a 12-step meeting in New Orleans and I was famous then I guess and this guy who like had

00:35:03.900 this great beard he was older and kind of scruffy and dirty but solid looked like a sailor or

00:35:07.960 something wearing like a sailor's hat and he was sort of big and it was in New Orleans that I got

00:35:13.380 arrested on that movie even man it's been so crazy this life he said fame celebrity those things

00:35:19.220 those are crumbs i want to be at the banquet and just yesterday i was reading in the gospel of

00:35:25.320 matthew the banquet is what we've been invited to we are able to be participants in the glory of all

00:35:31.180 creation and our challenge is this all of us will be like christ tempted by the devil we will be

00:35:36.560 offered the world have the world be in charge have big contracts be a star be fantastic have

00:35:43.940 women envy you and men want you or whatever is correct for your gender but if you choose that 0.83

00:35:50.720 path you will end up in a hollow empty barrenness and maybe even worse maybe you won't be blessed 0.58

00:35:56.780 as i have been to see the way out of there and even with the trials and challenges ahead what

00:36:02.860 I've been granted as a slow learner is a very clear correction and a very obvious illustration

00:36:09.960 that I've been blessed with I've got an amazing wife that just loves me I've got really really

00:36:16.160 beautiful children I've got amazing friends now when that voice and that appetite that craving

00:36:23.340 that longing which I would see kind of as demonic now when I feel it I give it to the cross I give

00:36:29.260 to him if i'm smart enough if i'm alert enough if i'm awake enough to i don't ever want to go back

00:36:34.200 there and i am sad but grateful to have been a participant in a culture that amplifies and

00:36:40.140 advocates for that way of life continually because even though we've been post me too now

00:36:44.360 and we've seen lots of statues real and figurative pulled down i think a lot of young men that don't

00:36:51.760 even observe traditional media anymore but like uh you know participating in online media figures

00:36:58.100 and there are a lot of them very male oriented social media figures will still think that my 0.96

00:37:03.820 identity is if I can sleep with lots of women if I can have fast cars if I can dominate and control 0.99

00:37:08.580 but this empire of domination and control it uses us as its fuel it's for a minute it will tell us

00:37:14.680 we're beautiful but when it's finished with us it will spit us out well we have the opportunity to

00:37:20.060 love someone who loves us in our brokenness in our vulnerability in my ineptitude in my frailty

00:37:26.120 in my inability to continually be the man that I'd like to be,

00:37:29.820 to not be a good enough dad, to not be a good enough husband?

00:37:33.080 Why would I not participate in that

00:37:34.880 and participate along with other people in that?

00:37:37.400 Why would I follow this empire of false idolatry and lies

00:37:40.620 where every single hero that it erects

00:37:42.680 eventually inevitably tumbles and falls

00:37:44.620 because that's what empires do

00:37:46.260 when what we have access to is eternity,

00:37:49.460 that which is outside of time?

00:37:51.060 We will go at best gracefully to our graves,

00:37:53.620 but the grave is coming with its hungry mouth.

00:37:56.120 When we get there, let's go there hand in hand together into eternity,

00:38:00.420 not having tried to create the simulacrum of permanence here,

00:38:04.660 permanent idols and skyscrapers and self-made icons

00:38:08.580 scratched out with our own clumsy hands.

00:38:12.120 Let me ask you something that Bill Maher says

00:38:14.540 about something he says on this subject.

00:38:16.280 He never married, and he says it's because

00:38:20.280 he didn't want to have to give up lust,

00:38:23.340 that he enjoys lust too much.

00:38:26.120 As somebody who's been on both sides of this and is currently in a loving marriage, which does, I hate to tell you, Bill, include lust, it's not like the first day, it's not like the first year, but it develops into something else.

00:38:39.200 What do you think he's missing?

00:38:41.860 What Bill Maher, with all due respect to him, there is missing and living through is a self-perpetuated adolescence clinging to some injury or wound, I would imagine, that occurred around the time when, you know,

00:38:55.180 and I speak as someone who belatedly received these lessons,

00:38:58.140 what Bill Maher is missing is intimacy.

00:39:00.480 You can achieve through promiscuity a kind of false intimacy

00:39:05.300 that sort of feels kind of wonderful sometimes,

00:39:07.200 particularly with the charge of sexuality around it.

00:39:09.800 Especially the whole flight crew there. 0.53

00:39:11.240 Oh, man, there's nuts coming at you from every direction.

00:39:14.840 Can I get you a hot house?

00:39:16.160 That's what she said.

00:39:18.040 But what you are missing out on is true intimacy.

00:39:20.420 You are eating the crumbs, that which has fallen from the table,

00:39:23.440 the appearance of something, instead of the thing itself.

00:39:26.220 I actually really love Bill Maher.

00:39:29.020 I think he's a, I've been on his shows a couple of times,

00:39:31.440 and I think he's a really, really lovely person.

00:39:33.800 And I reckon that what Bill Maher,

00:39:36.000 what I would pray for Bill Maher is the ability for him to love.

00:39:40.280 Like, one day we will hear Bill Maher say,

00:39:44.380 man, I don't know what I was afraid of.

00:39:46.880 I have a father, I have a wife that I love.

00:39:49.260 This is amazing.

00:39:50.180 Right, why did I wait so long?

00:39:51.400 Yeah.

00:39:51.860 I don't know if he's capable.

00:39:53.440 He doesn't strike me as somebody who's capable.

00:39:55.780 He's in a very different place.

00:39:56.900 You have to arrest yourself.

00:39:58.320 You have to participate in your own delusion.

00:40:00.460 We all of us hold the key to the way out.

00:40:02.300 I recognize that I did.

00:40:03.300 I didn't have to.

00:40:03.900 Like, you know how all of us are meant to say,

00:40:05.280 like, oh, I don't regret anything

00:40:06.180 because I wouldn't be the person I am.

00:40:07.500 And that is one perspective that's available.

00:40:09.340 But obviously for me, I'm like, wow,

00:40:10.760 I wish I hadn't hurt all of these people.

00:40:12.280 Also, I knew my wife when I was,

00:40:13.980 when she was 19 and I was 30,

00:40:15.420 around to like, you know,

00:40:16.080 the time all of these things are sort of kicking off.

00:40:17.900 I could have married her.

00:40:18.680 I could have eight kids.

00:40:19.520 I could have been 20 years in.

00:40:20.500 and I could have had more time with her.

00:40:21.700 But you know that's not really true

00:40:23.020 because had the you of that year married her of that year,

00:40:26.860 you wouldn't have produced the same kids.

00:40:28.180 You wouldn't have been the same people.

00:40:29.320 You wouldn't have been as good parents.

00:40:30.480 I do think that kind of stuff is meant to be when it happens.

00:40:34.820 Yeah, there's zero point in lamenting timing

00:40:36.960 on things like a great relationship.

00:40:38.460 It's like it came when it came

00:40:39.440 because you were ready for it.

00:40:40.320 You manifested it when you were ready for it.

00:40:43.680 Okay, let's talk about the young girl

00:40:45.900 because that one's just bothering me.

00:40:47.600 how is it that you had a relationship with a 16 year old girl right i'll give you some stories

00:40:53.380 because some of this stuff pertains to ongoing legal situations that have respect for the

00:40:58.000 judicial process and everybody involved i don't want to get you in more trouble than you're already

00:41:01.660 facing with yes i'm in enough trouble um when i want to contextualize it in this way the reason

00:41:06.940 the age the age of consent exists is to protect people children who can't make a decision so if

00:41:12.480 the age of consent is 18 then don't have sex with someone that's 16 if the age of sex is 16 don't

00:41:17.880 have sex with someone that's 15 that's the law i'm talking about the law if you're a 30 year old

00:41:22.180 man and you're really famous i now know don't have sex with anybody at all because you are over

00:41:27.220 endowed and empowered in ways that make the match unlikely to be fair what i would say is i did i

00:41:34.080 didn't have a passion for young girls you know that's not my thing that's not my thing that's

00:41:39.260 just um like no it's just reading up on this piece of your history it's not like it does not

00:41:44.420 it's not a common theme that keeps coming no i really liked older women black women white women

00:41:48.540 thin women fat women it's love it's it's perverted love actually it's like a it's like oh my god

00:41:54.040 you're so and also it was sincere the reason that i was sleeping with lots of people i think is 0.99

00:41:57.840 because i see beauty i see it i see the beauty i'm not like oh i'm just gonna tell this ugly cow

00:42:03.220 I mean, I love you.

00:42:05.140 I love you.

00:42:06.180 It feels very, very real.

00:42:07.900 So for me, like the age of consent would be something I'd be very alert to

00:42:12.460 and would check.

00:42:13.840 And also, by the way, I'm not like, yeah, it's not a kink of mine to like,

00:42:17.640 you know, if anything, it would be, oh, no, man. 0.59

00:42:20.560 Like the seniors?

00:42:21.880 Yeah, if anything.

00:42:22.900 I mean, do you know what?

00:42:24.420 I didn't know that was a thing.

00:42:25.760 When I was young, when I was really little, I just grew up with my mum, huh?

00:42:29.720 Just I'm the only son of a single mum.

00:42:31.840 the lady on from the house opposite Josie who I just was on the phone with when my mum was with

00:42:37.800 her they're like 80 like my mum's 80 now so I think Josie might be older than my mum and like

00:42:41.620 I remembered that when I wrote my first book I'd wrote in it written in my book should know the

00:42:45.880 tenses as an author like uh Doug would never make a mistake like that I'd written about Josie right

00:42:50.380 and she would have been like you know she was a single mum herself and she one time her water

00:42:54.140 her hot water weren't working at the house and I was about seven years old and like I went and

00:42:58.620 played with my toys in the bathroom she'd said can we use your kind of have a bath at your house

00:43:02.920 babs my mom because uh the hot water's not working at mine and i heard that phone call and i went and 0.70

00:43:08.640 like took all my toys into the bathroom and like played in there and like when josie came my mom

00:43:13.640 went um hey russell get out there josie's having a bath and just oh he's only a little boy and i was

00:43:18.900 ha ha ha the whole thing's a scheme you were looking for a cougar i found her like that

00:43:23.860 obviously nothing happened i sat there playing with like my farmyard animals and toys like any

00:43:28.160 innocent normal child but what i want to tell you is i just had an enormous appetite and craving

00:43:33.900 for sexual inc where do you go with it if you're like looking for looking for something of meaning

00:43:39.180 and feel like look i started with weed then i end up on heroin i start with like sleeping with one

00:43:43.420 person at a time and i wish i'd had the common sense to fall in love and to be a bit more and

00:43:47.440 by the way sometimes i was i keep telling people this like because i'm when i was touring doing

00:43:52.020 like crazy ass world tours in arenas and like i'm telling you it's like people frying women

00:43:56.960 throwing their underwear at me and all that kind of stuff and people getting wristbands to come

00:44:00.600 backstage it was unbelievable remember i wasn't like captain of the football team at school right

00:44:05.900 i was like a nervous weird kid like you know i'm unusual so like when that happened i was very um

00:44:14.780 all like just like a like a fish trawler or like just some open hole just everything falling into

00:44:19.460 this open hole so i'm not like you know hey can i check your id what about you have you got any

00:44:23.780 psychological problems were you abused as a kid was that well you know i have that level of

00:44:27.280 awareness now that i can see where people's injury are i really sense it now but i wasn't i didn't 0.57

00:44:30.980 care i've been stupid but i do remember actually in australia uh like encountering a young woman

00:44:37.380 and there being anatomical evidence of her lack of experience and saying to her in that situation 0.98

00:44:42.780 oh actually hey like this probably isn't a good way for you to have sex for the first time

00:44:48.400 so i wasn't like an inner unalert you know like i'm explaining in the book he's always there he's

00:44:55.400 watching you and also i'm a 12-step person that means as a 12-step person that means you do an

00:45:00.560 inventory with your sponsor where you where you tell them absolutely everything if you're not

00:45:04.600 entirely honest you do not receive the benefits confession truth is the foundation of everything

00:45:09.740 i would be lying to myself if i lied to you i mean we're on you know where it's being filmed

00:45:14.380 and broadcast and stuff like that and i'm not stupid but what i'm saying is but i've never done

00:45:19.860 anything where i've i've manipulated consent i've manipulated consent by conducting it it's a kind

00:45:25.600 of energy energy conduction but bypassing consent is when you make people do things they don't want

00:45:29.760 to do not make things do think make people do things they wouldn't normally do that is too

00:45:33.900 young you shouldn't sleep with anyone really younger than you and if i'd had more i mean i

00:45:38.660 wouldn't go but i don't want to time travel back and be a more efficient womanizer i don't think

00:45:42.360 14 years difference is in itself scandalous it's just given the age she was it was but you know

00:45:47.840 if she were 25 and you were 39 i don't think people would be looking at that you know it's

00:45:52.540 yeah it is young but i don't know if you remember from your own adolescence because i do that there

00:45:57.880 were some young women like you know girls you let's call them girls like there were 16 that

00:46:03.380 were like kids and then there were others that were like women and like 25 year old guys would

00:46:07.560 pull up in cars outside the school like we're just at my normal comprehensive that means regular

00:46:11.620 state school you know when all the girls in your year go out listen you don't have to tell i was

00:46:16.200 called a pedophile enabler because i said there's a difference between 15 year olds and five year

00:46:21.640 olds when we were talking about what jeffrey epstein is and really the point i was making

00:46:26.340 was that the term pedophile only a point applies to somebody who likes pre-pubescent girls which

00:46:32.780 is a very different thing than liking women who are in their you know late teens and then you get

00:46:39.840 in the 15 16 range and it depends it really depends i guess the law is the law i'm in a

00:46:44.380 legal situation morally it's course it's wrong it's morally but one but i mean there are 15 and

00:46:49.520 16 year old girls who are having sex with 18 and 17 year old boys like they're right it's the like

00:46:55.500 the age difference there does feel exploitative and shocking yes like 15 year old 16 year olds 0.94

00:47:02.160 kids having sex with each other is none of my business me as a 30 year old i had no business 0.98

00:47:06.680 having consensual sex with women that were just past girls, 0.99

00:47:11.620 that were just over the age of consent.

00:47:13.080 But it wasn't really, it wasn't like my thing.

00:47:15.600 You know what I mean?

00:47:15.880 It was like, oh, this one, that one, this one, fine.

00:47:17.520 When you saw, so I think her fake name is Alice.

00:47:21.040 I don't know if that's her real name.

00:47:21.720 From the documentary.

00:47:22.600 From the documentary.

00:47:23.140 She went on camera.

00:47:24.500 Actually, it wasn't, they were all actors, I believe. 0.96

00:47:26.720 All of the women.

00:47:27.360 I had some more actors and some more like the adult version.

00:47:30.800 I thought that we had the actual version of Alice.

00:47:33.040 I don't know, actually, to be honest.

00:47:34.220 But did you were you shocked to see that she was speaking out about it in a way that painted it as not consensual?

00:47:42.380 Yes, because yes, of course, actually. Yes. Yes, absolutely.

00:47:46.660 i if um again with respect to ongoing judicial proceedings this is a person that outside of

00:47:58.080 this difficult matter were i to encounter her i would greet her as a person that i held in

00:48:04.520 very high regard did you and she did you feel like it ended well did you feel like you had a good

00:48:09.440 you know you you got out of it well and you you two were in a good place um yes so you were you

00:48:16.360 were stunned yes yes yes is there any way i have to take a break in a minute here but is there any

00:48:23.820 way do you think russell like out of these criminal charges do you think have you been

00:48:28.500 able to speak to any of these women to try to like find out one-on-one i think about that sometimes

00:48:33.360 and i would like to i would like to because there's i would i wish i pray that there were a

00:48:39.980 way that i could as a man you get in trouble for witness tampering at this point i guess right it's

00:48:45.560 not legally permissible but yeah like i recognize that people feel that they have been wronged and

00:48:51.960 i understand why they would feel like they have been wronged but you know like it's it's a sort

00:48:57.660 of an odd um philosophical device to use your own children but like i've daughters uh seven day

00:49:04.040 babies but they're presumably i'd imagine from the way you know there's a potential that they

00:49:08.640 will find a certain type of man appealing when they grow up based on the way that they're being

00:49:12.500 raised and who their primary male role model is there will be a very very strong difference in

00:49:17.360 my mind were one of my beloved daughters to sleep with a charismatic wild womanizer than if they were

00:49:24.080 to be violated by a rapist in one case i would be sad about it and go well there's the life is full

00:49:31.740 of lessons kid and in the other one we've got a situation yeah all right stand by we have to take

00:49:38.320 break. There's so much more to go over. What a man, what a life. Russell Brand bears it all in

00:49:42.800 his new book, How to Become a Christian in Seven Days, asterisk, may take 50 years of sin and 0.87

00:49:48.920 serious fuck-ups to get started. Don't go away. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, 0.98

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00:50:46.260 We are back now with Russell Brand. He is the author of How to Become a Christian in Seven

00:50:52.480 Days. Asterix may take 50 years of sin and serious fuck ups to get started. It is available now at 0.99

00:50:58.040 tuckercarlson.com. Our pal Tucker is launching an imprint and Russell's book is the first big

00:51:04.860 project within the imprint. So we're supporting two people at once, but read the book because

00:51:08.760 you're going to love it. And Russell is unsparing of himself, which you can hear him do here on this

00:51:13.600 set as well. So I'll move on from the women thing in one minute, but I want to ask you about one

00:51:18.760 other person who was featured in the documentary because I think her story illustrates how this

00:51:24.080 whole thing is a lot more complicated than it may look to the outside world. Now, this woman's name

00:51:28.900 is Nadia, and she's featured in this British documentary called In Plain Sight, which details

00:51:34.540 an alleged rape. That's what she says. The problem for Nadia is, and in this, I'm going to play a

00:51:40.060 soundbite from it. Oh, wow. It's played by an actress, to your point. I see. It's not, whoever

00:51:46.440 Nadia actually is, this is not the actual Nadia. It's some woman claiming, I had this relationship

00:51:51.400 with Russell. And this is the terrible thing that happened to me. And we'll go through it in just a

00:51:56.100 couple of details. But here it is. I think it's that too. And he's like, please come just come

00:52:00.840 and cuddle with me. So then I gave in. He comes running out of the bedroom naked.

00:52:11.400 He came at me with kisses and stuff, which was kind of fun. And then it wasn't that fun when I

00:52:20.400 couldn't move or i knew what he wanted from me he pushed me up against the wall i'm like no

00:52:27.600 that's not happening we're not doing that and at this point he's grabbing at my my underwear

00:52:35.520 pulling it to the side i'm telling him to get off me and he won't get off

00:52:40.880 and he has that glazed look in his eye again i was very distraught trying to get out of the house

00:52:46.640 with him being so much taller than me like holding me up against the wall pushing himself in me

00:52:54.960 i couldn't move

00:52:58.960 and he finally comes and gets off of me and i push him away

00:53:05.280 he blocks the door he's like are you okay i'm like no i'm not okay get away from me

00:53:11.920 And he's like, well, let's calm down.

00:53:17.840 Again, that was an actress purporting to be this woman based on this woman's testimonial of her relationship with you.

00:53:25.540 She also claims that there was a text message after the fact between the two of you where you sent her a text message at 3.29 a.m.

00:53:34.740 I'm sorry.

00:53:35.620 That was crazy and selfish.

00:53:37.720 I hope you can forgive me.

00:53:38.680 I know that you're a lovely person, X, that you tried phoning her at 3.51 a.m., but the call went

00:53:44.100 unanswered. And she says later in that same day, she went with a friend to a rape treatment center

00:53:49.240 at UCLA Santa Monica Medical Center. She did not go to the police. And then she saw a therapist and

00:53:57.200 they saw therapy notes from this rape treatment. It was all at the rape treatment center where she 0.68

00:54:02.080 had though. So that's her story. Then, then you find out a little bit more in that she says in

00:54:10.640 this text to you, allegedly, this is reported later by the mirror. Russell, when a girl says

00:54:16.260 no, it means no. Do I have to go and get myself tested? Last time you asked me condom or no 0.99

00:54:23.720 condom. When I say condom, that doesn't mean it's optional. You don't have the best reputation.

00:54:29.700 And you responded saying, I pride myself on being safe, trying to make the right decisions.

00:54:34.160 Obviously, this is a bad one.

00:54:35.300 I'm so disappointed in that you wrote, you don't need to get tested.

00:54:38.460 I will make this up to you somehow with love and kindness.

00:54:42.280 Not my original idea, which was more sex.

00:54:44.460 You're being funny here.

00:54:45.960 So this whole text exchange is kind of illuminating to me.

00:54:50.520 And I wonder, because this is somebody who claims she was in a relationship with you.

00:54:53.800 She had had consensual sex with you. 0.90

00:54:55.480 that particular night she did not want to have sex with you and that you forced yourself upon her. 0.72

00:55:00.760 When you watch that and when you see that, what's your reaction to it?

00:55:05.220 Well, I must say, Megan, it makes me uncomfortable, to tell you the truth,

00:55:10.380 Because, as I've said, even whilst I believe that the challenge that I face is one of the misuse of being in a position where lots of people had sex with me, just to even see iterated, albeit by an actor in a documentary, which I think had an agenda, if that's my opinion about that.

00:55:36.140 Nor is it journalistically sound to use an actor like that, but that's another problem.

00:55:39.840 and also to shoot an actor in silhouette as well if it is an actor if it's an actor you don't need

00:55:44.320 to shoot them in silhouette that shows that there's an intention and the type of music being

00:55:47.720 used but yeah i suppose look i'm here in of course i sort of think about what's my motivation even

00:55:54.460 i'm coming on your show what's my motivation am i falling again into the trap of wanting stuff

00:56:00.160 wanting to be successful wanting to be powerful wanting to have influence wanting to get out of

00:56:06.040 consequences of my actions and so what i have to say is my behavior which my position is was

00:56:14.400 consensual and therefore non-criminal is definitely immoral and i suppose my job as a follower of

00:56:21.940 jesus is to focus on how i can follow him more closely and i don't really megan get a lot of

00:56:29.540 delight out of going that person said this but actually that although those things will be very

00:56:34.440 important in the trial that i'm facing because that's the nature of it i'm being put into a

00:56:40.160 criminal situation you know of it that's the nature of what i'm facing and do you know that

00:56:46.000 i'm like will be literally in like a like a glass box like hannibal lecter like in the in the in

00:56:50.980 the pre-trial one so like to me it's i'm in a sense trying to manage this in a number of different

00:56:56.260 fields. In the judicial and legal one, it's a matter of, of course, demonstrating that the

00:57:04.780 encounters that I had were consensual. In a public relations field, which is, I suppose, what I'm in

00:57:10.000 now, I think I have to take the opportunity to say that I'm not saying, so what? These women are 1.00

00:57:17.380 lying. They wanted money. Who cares? I'm not like, that's not my position. My position is, yes, I 1.00

00:57:22.520 recognize that my conduct has caused harm and pain in in a in a pr situation like being on the

00:57:30.800 megan kelly show my i think my role and my job is to make it very clear to people that that behavior

00:57:38.140 as i describe it was not behavior that i would endorse but it's not non-consensual or coercive

00:57:48.600 behavior however people obviously plainly as we just saw there albeit played by an actor they'll

00:57:53.580 hurt by the encounters by me and so i've obviously got some work to do somewhere so what level of

00:57:58.240 stress are you at about this criminal trial all right so sometimes it's unbelievable sometimes

00:58:03.920 it's kind of unbelievable sometimes i can't sometimes i think if this can happen then anything

00:58:09.840 can happen if look when i was coming in december october i think it's october the 7th the trial

00:58:17.020 in the united kingdom um so it's sort of you know it's coming up close and i've got like a normal

00:58:23.100 family i've got young children and all that kind of stuff so i'm living a normal life i'm working

00:58:27.220 and sort of i'm part of my job is public facing and i'm assessing that and what contribution can

00:58:32.300 i make and how has it impeded me and impaired me and slowed me down what are the positive things

00:58:37.380 that have come from it like certainly it's been very very very humbling and confronting because i

00:58:41.600 I've already recognized that sexual addiction is wrong.

00:58:44.960 I've already recognized that as a married man or anyone in a committed relationship, I suppose,

00:58:50.040 you've got to be straight and faithful.

00:58:52.960 All of those lessons I kind of learned.

00:58:54.880 But I believe in God, so all things are from God.

00:58:58.360 This is from God.

00:58:59.380 Yeah, I agree.

00:59:00.200 And I don't like it very much.

00:59:01.900 I mean, and it is extremely stressful.

00:59:04.140 But because of my faith in God, when I feel frightened, and I sometimes do,

00:59:07.700 what i try to do is recognize that he is a great and loving god and that he will use this in some

00:59:14.740 way and on a slightly less mystical plane i recognize that i have some serious amends to

00:59:23.440 make and perhaps by god's grace an opportunity to put right the wrongs i've done but i have to

00:59:29.420 tell the truth i can't put right wrongs i haven't done only the things that i've done and i've been

00:59:34.260 i was clear about those things at the time because again when i was doing that stuff i was on a talk

00:59:38.400 show or if like you know i'm aware of attractive women i'm i'm not blind i can see attractive and

00:59:42.760 when i was like a single person i'm like assessment are you married yes okay no problem unless you're

00:59:48.200 married and you've got an open marriage right fair enough uh what about you are you not like

00:59:51.440 some of those flight attendants right like so i was an open channel but for the for the wrong

00:59:57.120 frequency and the wrong energy what's it like now it's um very very pressurizing and as a christian

01:00:02.780 i recognize that pressure can be very refining very refining so i try to keep my mind and my

01:00:09.760 prayers on the people involved in this that are hurt and that need resolution and justice i'm

01:00:16.120 trying to be aware of that i'm trying not to be selfish i'm trying to pay attention to that

01:00:20.180 everyone participating in this is doing their best does it does it make you angry

01:00:24.340 the anger i've never felt i understand the position look in the when me too happened in

01:00:32.020 2015, you know, I was like, wow, I've slept with lots and lots of women. I wonder if during this

01:00:37.440 moment I'm going to face some allegations. And that did not happen. Because I think some people,

01:00:44.100 it seemed, were facing allegations that maybe it looked like consensual activity reframed.

01:00:49.140 Again, that's one of the things that's very, you know, suspicious about the allegations against

01:00:54.360 you is that no one did come forward then. It wasn't until you got very outspoken in your more

01:00:59.660 right-wing views that suddenly Channel 4 thought it would be a great time to do a hit piece on

01:01:05.060 Russell Brand and found some women. I mean, it'd be the equivalent of going around and finding all 0.93

01:01:10.560 the women who had slept with Jon Bon Jovi and saying, do you ever have anything that didn't

01:01:15.180 feel 100%? It's just when you go to a man who's been as exposed as you have, like a rock star,

01:01:22.240 as you were describing, if you really, really, really lift up every sheet and kick every tire,

01:01:27.380 you may find some women who are unhappy about their experiences.

01:01:30.360 I'm not diminishing them. 1.00

01:01:31.260 Maybe they're true, whatever.

01:01:32.200 We'll find out at the trial.

01:01:33.500 But maybe they're not true, and maybe this did come up

01:01:36.540 because there was a new agenda when it came to your name,

01:01:40.560 and it was much more interesting to silence you and smear you.

01:01:43.840 And honestly, Russell, I'm not diminishing anybody's story.

01:01:47.080 I don't know what happened.

01:01:48.040 But I can relate to this to some extent.

01:01:50.240 I have seen myself get attacked by different groups over the years

01:01:56.100 when you fly too close to the sun

01:01:58.180 or when you're over an issue

01:01:59.700 that's this particular group's favorite issue

01:02:02.400 and they need you to say it in a different way

01:02:05.020 or feel a different way,

01:02:06.800 that I now am very suspicious

01:02:08.700 about massive harms that come to people

01:02:12.320 when they speak out on a particular issue

01:02:14.080 or in a particular way.

01:02:15.520 It happens over and over and over.

01:02:17.560 Yes, it is interesting.

01:02:19.520 One of the outside of my own experience

01:02:21.560 where of course, by definition,

01:02:23.720 I can't be objective

01:02:24.800 because i am the subject of it i do try to imagine that the way that power operates these days is

01:02:32.240 to first decide an outcome this is the outcome we want how do we get to that outcome we need

01:02:39.340 these resources we need control of social media like when there's a spate of stories for example

01:02:45.080 saying we're really concerned that young people using their social media are getting too much

01:02:50.400 access to pornography. Either the government and the state are really concerned about the moral

01:02:55.080 well-being and purity of our youngsters, or they're looking for a way to legitimize some

01:03:01.600 measures and control that they'd like to assert. That's why I think the pandemic period that many

01:03:05.860 of us have sort of, you know, everyone wants to just get on with their lives and no one wants to

01:03:08.620 look back over their shoulders. It's so depressing. It's interesting. It's interesting. But what were

01:03:13.740 the results of the pandemic? I think when we look at, you know, key bono, I think is the phrase in

01:03:17.940 Latin, who benefits, when we look at what happened, who benefited, whether it's a sort of something

01:03:22.800 that's personal or whether it's something that's larger, more macro, then it helps us to understand

01:03:28.720 clearly what's required. I think that the agenda right now is to create a great deal of social

01:03:35.820 unrest and cultural confusion. People arguing and quarreling about identity and ideology,

01:03:41.880 a kind of Tower of Babel moment where everybody is in a mad conflict, a cacophony of argument.

01:03:51.060 In this cacophony of argument, I think there will be an attempt to assert centralized control,

01:03:57.120 increasing centralized control that is not national, but international. And I think the

01:04:02.280 pandemic, whether deliberately or not, was a opportunity to pilot levels of control.

01:04:08.720 what are the problems you face if you tell people everyone's got to get in their house

01:04:12.720 how do they respond to it how much trust do the media have these days who trusts cnn msnbc fox

01:04:19.240 whoever and i think they learned a great deal and i would be very surprised if we didn't see

01:04:24.920 in the coming years attempt to shut down anybody who has a meaningful dissenting voice if you have

01:04:31.520 a meaningful dissenting voice it's quite likely that you will be subject to attacks 100 the money

01:04:38.420 People will look at your taxes and the way you've paid.

01:04:41.100 They will look at your sexual history.

01:04:42.520 They will do whatever they can.

01:04:43.980 And, you know, if there's nothing else they can do,

01:04:46.160 it seems that sometimes very convenient people are assassinated,

01:04:50.500 people that it's beneficial to not have around.

01:04:53.180 Well, you made an interesting point, Tucker.

01:04:54.680 You made it, you know, facetiously,

01:04:57.060 but, you know, there was obviously an element of

01:04:59.020 are we on to something in the discussion about the lone gunman.

01:05:02.720 I never heard somebody say it the way you said it.

01:05:05.640 like, wow, it's really interesting how these lone gunmen are out there assassinating all these

01:05:10.780 really prominent, important figures. You know, if you were a, if you were a government who really

01:05:15.300 wanted to get rid of a problematic person, you'd be really smart to partner with one of these lone

01:05:18.800 gunmen. Like, that's basically how you put it. You said it more articulately than that, but

01:05:22.920 I like that. That, that was more persuasive to me than any conspiracy theory in quotes I've heard

01:05:29.220 on any of the assassinations. It's like, if you are a government or a government agency or an

01:05:34.180 underworld related entity and you want to take out somebody really famous wouldn't it make sense

01:05:40.120 to do it that way as opposed to just sending your super secret sniper into the crowd and taking him

01:05:46.420 out yes are you a teenager with no social media imprint who's never been on any of these sites

01:05:52.880 are you despairing and at a loss then you could be a long one hundred one hundred lone gunman

01:05:59.780 maybe you could be a tool of the state i was just thinking then that perhaps what's important

01:06:04.760 is for us to recognize that everyone is broken and any of us that have invested our hope in some

01:06:10.340 political figure or cultural figure in the end disappointment is what's coming because they're

01:06:14.880 all broken and hopeless in their own way and another thing that i feel might be important

01:06:19.900 is to look at who we can forgive and who we can move towards in good faith because i think we're

01:06:25.340 doing their work for them when i say they i mean the true power the empire we're doing their work

01:06:31.900 for them when we quarrel with one another when the chat is full of in intermittently anti-semitism

01:06:38.880 islamophobia hatred loathing i regard it as a kind of frequency once you are on that frequency

01:06:45.300 of hatred and condemnation they've already got you you've been as we would say in the uk 0.98

01:06:49.900 lifed off you're partitioned you're no good you're useless now when you remain in faith and in grace

01:06:56.280 open-hearted and willing to forgive and willing to love you move into a different terrain and

01:07:00.980 different territory if we don't instantiate a different type of politics that's actually I mean

01:07:06.520 ironically the system that would work rather well is democracy if we do not use the technology that

01:07:11.540 we have right now that's in my country being used for facial recognition technology that's just been

01:07:16.020 litigated. They're now going to have facial recognition technology cameras all across the

01:07:20.480 UK. Many people are concerned that in the United Kingdom, you're very likely to be arrested. We

01:07:24.900 have more arrests than any other nation for social media posts. There's an attempt to get

01:07:30.100 digital ID mandated that has been temporarily rescinded because there was so much public

01:07:35.100 resistance, which optimistically suggests that if we are willing to unite in a line, we can oppose

01:07:40.760 this technological feudalism that seems to be coming down the line.

01:07:44.340 what terrifies me megan is that the the enemy the empire deal only in counterfeits instead of unity

01:07:52.240 they will have totalitarianism instead of intercommunication they will have mass surveillance

01:07:57.720 all of our communications observed and controlled all of our information pre-tued any opinion that's

01:08:04.460 not convenient to the empire or to the state passed off ignored and censored i really believe

01:08:11.120 that we are at a pivotal moment.

01:08:12.700 I think everybody knows that.

01:08:14.120 I don't want to indulge

01:08:15.100 that kind of fin de sequela narcissism

01:08:17.300 that every generation feels.

01:08:19.040 We are the ones

01:08:19.720 that will experience the Armageddon.

01:08:21.400 We are the ones

01:08:22.100 that will experience the apocalypse.

01:08:23.600 Surely we will.

01:08:24.440 But in the wake of COVID,

01:08:25.820 why wouldn't we be asking those questions?

01:08:27.380 I mean, we just had our president

01:08:28.960 send out a post saying,

01:08:31.860 no, I think I'm willing to sacrifice

01:08:33.980 my liberties, my civil liberties,

01:08:36.540 in order to have the government

01:08:37.640 have this control.

01:08:38.480 It's fine when in the context

01:08:40.320 of these FISA warrants in the FISA court.

01:08:42.780 And this was something that we on the right cheered post 9-11,

01:08:46.960 you know, these Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,

01:08:49.400 these warrants that you can get to,

01:08:51.160 you can get access to millions of people's metadata

01:08:53.500 from their phones.

01:08:54.620 And the way the government justified it was,

01:08:56.860 yes, some Americans may get swept up

01:08:58.420 in our search for spy communications

01:09:00.680 or terrorist communications,

01:09:02.200 but we're not after them.

01:09:04.360 We're after the bad guys.

01:09:06.060 And it's not like we're pulling, you know,

01:09:07.340 Megyn Kelly's texts and reading them.

01:09:08.640 We're basically just going to see her metadata in the field of lots of metadata.

01:09:12.620 And we accepted that post 9-11 because we were scared shitless.

01:09:16.140 It was, we were, I mean, we really had been attacked and 3,000 of our fellow Americans

01:09:18.960 were killed in the most brutal way possible.

01:09:21.160 So we sacrificed a lot of our core beliefs back then, but it's been 25 years since 9-11

01:09:27.220 and to pretend that we still need this tool for the terrorists, all right, like what? 0.99

01:09:33.160 To prevent that from happening is bullshit. 0.95

01:09:35.840 That's for us, and there should be objections by the American public. 0.98

01:09:39.940 But wait, I want to circle back.

01:09:41.740 We went back to policy and our governments,

01:09:43.180 and I just want to stay on something about you,

01:09:45.240 because I read, I don't know where I read it,

01:09:46.600 but your wife said to you, or maybe gave you a written,

01:09:52.900 was it a psalm, a verse from the Bible about when we get persecuted,

01:09:57.600 we feel great joy, something to that effect?

01:09:59.640 Yes, that's from James 1.

01:10:01.060 Now, I don't want to paint a picture of my wife as a devout Christian.

01:10:03.680 She's very much a lapsed Catholic. Her family, her father in particular, is a very dedicated Catholic.

01:10:09.120 But my wife, you know, if anyone's suffering as a result of my Christianity, it's my wife.

01:10:15.640 And if anyone would know if it were a performance, it would be my wife.

01:10:20.900 But she did very beautifully when I was going back for one of the preliminary hearings prior to my trial,

01:10:26.820 made this beautiful painting of a magnolia

01:10:29.980 and a verse from James first in the New Testament

01:10:32.620 of James's letter for the first chapter is,

01:10:36.040 we consider it great joy when we face trials of any kind.

01:10:41.020 Well, we're being invited.

01:10:42.000 Yes, I love that.

01:10:44.280 So I didn't-

01:10:45.240 Do you do that?

01:10:46.540 I always, always say this.

01:10:48.660 I say that to myself.

01:10:49.440 I say it to my staff.

01:10:50.220 I say it to young people

01:10:51.020 when I speak to them on college campuses.

01:10:53.760 I confess it's a take on something.

01:10:55.860 I first heard many, many moons ago from Oprah Winfrey back when we liked her.

01:11:00.380 But it was a good piece of advice.

01:11:02.220 And it was whenever something comes your way that's hugely negative or a massive challenge, your first response should be, thank you.

01:11:09.820 Thank you.

01:11:11.040 Because how do we grow?

01:11:12.240 How do we evolve as human beings?

01:11:13.820 How do we become, you know, people with superhero muscles, emotional muscles?

01:11:18.120 Unless that stuff does come to us.

01:11:20.160 If that stuff never comes to us, we remain boring, rather uninformed, weak, unprepared for some massive crisis that may be coming down the line.

01:11:30.480 Each one of these that does get thrown to you as long as you don't even have to win.

01:11:34.400 I mean, I'm not talking about like, okay, you go to prison for 10 years.

01:11:37.520 That's tough.

01:11:38.980 But my point is if you just keep going, if you just handle it, if you don't stay in the fetal position in your bed, it's already a win.

01:11:46.260 You've already grown.

01:11:47.140 It's a huge opportunity to evolve as a human.

01:11:49.280 and the bigger the challenge the bigger the fear the bigger the opportunity yes so i love what she

01:11:55.460 wrote yeah that was she didn't write it originally but i love that what she stitched yeah absolutely

01:12:00.220 it is incredibly encouraging and precisely the wife that i'm i'm i deserve what i did that maybe

01:12:08.360 i don't deserve no you must deserve her you must deserve her man thank god you wouldn't you wouldn't

01:12:12.960 have or if you didn't you know like what i think megan whether it's you or me or tucker who or

01:12:19.540 whoever there's this sense that in the end the technology that meant that you don't have to

01:12:25.640 work for fox no more you know you can work for serious if you want to and you can do partnerships

01:12:29.800 that i don't work for serious they license my show license your show brokerage the power of

01:12:34.480 the brokers has been diminished that's the real trend that's significant that in information has

01:12:39.840 been decentralized so either the political systems will have to learn to evolve and adapt and reflect

01:12:47.280 this decentralization or perversely they will constrict and try to legitimize more and more

01:12:53.720 centralization and authoritarianism and a kind of technological feudalism a centralized control

01:12:59.760 it's pretty clear that they've taken the latter path i think most people were temporarily excited

01:13:06.100 about MAGA nationalism, because it seemed like in the powerful, and as I say, idiosyncratic figure

01:13:11.260 of Donald Trump, there was at least a kind of stumbling block and maybe even a bulwark against

01:13:16.140 advancing global imperialism, where using the idea of care and protection, more and more control was

01:13:23.400 being asserted. You have to sign this in order to do that. We need you to carry this. We're going to

01:13:28.140 eventually plant a chip under your skin. All those things that were once the preserve of the 1.00

01:13:32.180 conspiracy theorists are advancing into everyday life think about what you thought about what david

01:13:37.420 and alex jones were saying in the 90s and and and how you revered the new york times and bbc well

01:13:43.920 which direction is that needle moving in as we you know are there pedophile rings is there a cultist

01:13:49.980 power can we trust the mainstream narrative on the most important issues whether it's wars or

01:13:55.680 assassinations what i believe they fear most of all is that this ability to instantaneously

01:14:01.380 communicate will become politicized that ultimately people could have decentralized communities and

01:14:08.140 localized politics that you would have minimal government minimal intervention maximum ability

01:14:15.360 to run your community like the amish if you wanted or like gay people if you wanted or like

01:14:21.160 muslims if you wanted that you don't need the intervention of a global bureaucracy anymore

01:14:27.860 I wanted to read this to you because you mentioned Alex Jones.

01:14:32.980 So he and I have a very interesting history together.

01:14:37.020 But I have to tell you, even at our worst in terms of our fighting, I always said he has been right about so much.

01:14:44.120 Right.

01:14:44.260 We had our big.

01:14:45.220 Would he attack you sometimes or did you attack him?

01:14:47.540 No, he never attacked me.

01:14:48.500 It was.

01:14:48.680 You could do an attack once in a while.

01:14:50.280 I can definitely do an attack, but I went to interview him while I was at NBC to do like an in-depth profile on him.

01:14:59.240 And it was not long after he had said that the Newtown families made up the murder of their children.

01:15:06.080 So, you know, he was like very, very hot potato to touch at the time, but I thought it would be an interesting profile.

01:15:11.560 And he had moved off of that, so I kind of thought we were just going to do a profile on Alex Jones.

01:15:17.560 And we would touch on that,

01:15:18.740 but it wouldn't be the theme of the piece

01:15:19.900 because he was interesting

01:15:21.360 and I knew he had gotten a lot right.

01:15:24.260 Anyway, we went there 0.84

01:15:25.760 and he kept doubling down on the Sandy Hook thing,

01:15:28.160 which turned the whole piece into something

01:15:30.040 that did look more like a hit piece

01:15:31.400 because of course I had to get contentious with him

01:15:33.820 because that's insane and wrong

01:15:36.240 and it wasn't made up.

01:15:37.520 Those kids were killed.

01:15:38.920 So anyway, then he taped me, he released the tape. 1.00

01:15:41.640 It just was like this crazy, crazy ass shit time in my life. 0.98

01:15:45.440 But having said all that, it's water under the bridge. And I've been watching what Alex Jones has been doing lately, and I actually really appreciate it. I think he's been doing great shows and his messaging around the whole Israel thing has been must see. And I mean, like, like I said, from the beginning, he's been right about a lot. 0.98

01:15:58.720 Just today, there was a big piece of news last night.

01:16:03.000 I don't know if you saw, Cash Patel announced

01:16:04.520 that the Southern Poverty Law Center, the SPLC,

01:16:08.680 which is supposed to be this great group

01:16:09.920 that protects America from racism and all the isms.

01:16:13.720 Like, they'll be the first to call you out

01:16:14.860 if you're a terrible person so that everybody knows

01:16:16.640 Russell's terrible, Megan's terrible, stay away. 0.98

01:16:19.320 They're this or that and the other thing.

01:16:20.640 And then turned into just this left-wing group

01:16:23.620 that would bash anybody on the right.

01:16:25.680 That's how it's been for years. 0.84

01:16:26.580 that they have been paying, paying members of the Ku Klux Klan, of the Aryan Brotherhood to go 0.80

01:16:35.180 infiltrate. They say, oh, it's just infiltrate. They're like inside sources. We didn't pay them

01:16:42.220 to create the event, just to infiltrate. That's not what the indictment says. And they've been

01:16:48.280 exposed now as basically paying the very people. They then look at their donors and say,

01:16:53.940 pay me to protect you from that person I'm paying. I'm going to use your money to pay him to cause

01:17:00.340 hell, including in Charlottesville, Virginia, at the Unite the Right rally that would just cause

01:17:07.240 a massive headache for President Trump from the beginning of his first term, where he said,

01:17:11.360 because there were skinheads there, but there were also people who were just pissed off that

01:17:14.680 we were pulling down statues of like Confederate generals or just even Christopher Columbus.

01:17:19.360 And Trump said, you know what? He said, not the white supremacists, but outside of them, there were very fine people on both sides. And that quote was used against him unfairly for many, many years and still is. Alex Jones. Okay, back in August of 2017, Charlottesville was a false flag run by Southern Poverty Law Center operatives who hired actors to pose as Nazis.

01:17:43.760 Fucking, the guy, I could give you so many of these by Alex Jones. 0.93

01:17:48.420 After we did my interview with him, where it did get contentious, but I spent days with him, he said so many things. 0.99

01:17:54.820 They sounded crazy, Russell.

01:17:57.340 We went back to the NBC fact-checking machine, which is good.

01:18:00.840 NBC's biased, but they're not reckless, generally, when it comes to their reporting.

01:18:05.260 Don't get me wrong, I understand what happened with Russiagate, and I'm not talking about MSNBC, I'm talking about NBC.

01:18:10.000 They all came back true. 0.99

01:18:11.900 Everybody's like, he's a lunatic. 1.00

01:18:13.860 He says the frogs are turning gay 1.00

01:18:15.660 and they're turning transgender. 1.00

01:18:17.000 We're like, he's a nutcase. 1.00

01:18:18.280 True, true, true, true, true. 0.67

01:18:19.920 It was amazing.

01:18:21.980 The Sandy Hook stuff was very, very wrong

01:18:23.860 and untrue, must be said again. 1.00

01:18:25.600 In any event, he's on the list, right?

01:18:29.080 Like he's been, of course, due to his own behavior

01:18:32.200 and due to just being right about a lot of the stuff

01:18:35.260 that they don't want out there, they've otherized him.

01:18:38.620 They've done it to Tucker.

01:18:39.900 They're in the process of trying to do it to me.

01:18:41.680 I'm a lot harder because I don't have the conspiratorial gene

01:18:45.480 that a lot of these folks have.

01:18:47.780 And their conspiracies in many places have turned out to be true.

01:18:50.520 So it's like, shame on me for not having more of one.

01:18:53.660 But I just, I'm not built like that.

01:18:54.700 I'm a lawyer.

01:18:55.200 I'm a linear thinker.

01:18:56.360 Very, very fact-based.

01:18:57.740 You know, I don't believe anything until it's really been proven to me

01:18:59.880 with like facts I can hold.

01:19:01.960 But they're trying, like, they're trying to do it to me right now.

01:19:05.360 And it's infuriating.

01:19:07.000 And now I'm much, much more suspicious about the narratives I've been sold about many, many other people, right?

01:19:11.900 Like, are they really crazy and conspiratorial or do they know something?

01:19:17.780 Have they hit on one of those soft spots that you're not allowed to touch?

01:19:21.920 It's very hard to stay present.

01:19:23.440 It's very hard to stay present and assess when you're being emotionally stimulated.

01:19:27.760 The whole culture is continually emotionally stimulated.

01:19:31.260 Sexual imagery, imagery of violence and fear.

01:19:34.580 These things create bewilderment and disorientation.

01:19:38.580 You shouldn't consume too much of it, if any, at all, as a matter of fact.

01:19:43.180 Over time and right now, AI and the Internet are creating something that's akin to a counterfeit consciousness.

01:19:51.340 Remember Carl Jung saying that we have a collective unconscious.

01:19:55.420 It's almost as if there's a repository for all of our thoughts.

01:19:57.980 It says that we are all participants in the Holy Spirit, that all of us can share in God's grace and presence right now, that eternity is not just beyond time, but it is within and throughout time.

01:20:10.240 Now, in creating this online Internet space where all consciousnesses and individuals can potentially interconnect with one another, we've created a kind of facsimile or counterfeit of a psyche.

01:20:22.000 The psyche is generating the kind of shadow archetypes that Jung himself spoke about.

01:20:27.980 And because we live in this materialistic, secular culture, we don't have the language or even the diagnostic tools to recognize these types.

01:20:37.440 The dark woman that will tell you truths that people don't want to hear and uncomfortable about. 0.94

01:20:43.520 The ranting preacher that might say things that are sometimes crazy or prophetic.

01:20:49.180 Have you looked at the prophetic language in the Bible, but has a great many truths to tell us?

01:20:54.240 the thoughtful Khan, the meaty, solid warrior that thoughtfully pontificates and interrogates

01:21:02.720 people. Our internet online new media space is like a new consciousness inhabited with people

01:21:09.140 like you and me and Tucker that have lived for a while in the old media and then these other

01:21:14.300 creatures that came from the periphery or were born within it. But there are great truths that

01:21:19.440 are being told by you with your understanding of litigation and systems of justice media you have

01:21:24.940 a great deal to offer tucker with his background there that's sort of deep deep embedded in systems

01:21:31.180 of state and power and media and journalism those outlier characters like jones you can see that guy

01:21:37.360 when he's on there 25 or 30 turning up protesting against wars telling us way before 9-11 that it

01:21:43.420 was going to happen and who was going to have done it if you dismiss that person or if you condemn

01:21:48.240 that person or if you try to control or shut down that person. There may be reasons for it,

01:21:52.980 but those reasons are not going to be for your protection. And again, another useful paradigm

01:21:57.040 for understanding this is what was the entire mentality behind the pandemic? We have to take

01:22:02.720 these medicines and we have to go into our homes because life is sacred and we have to protect each

01:22:08.380 other no matter what. We especially have to protect the vulnerable. Well, where else do you see them

01:22:14.760 operating and governing in order to protect the vulnerable i don't see it i see exploitation and

01:22:20.340 i see control whenever they come to you saying that they want to protect you they actually want

01:22:24.640 to control you and you know from your own life as a parent or someone who loves anybody the

01:22:28.880 protection control are on a spectrum i want to protect my children and part of that is i have

01:22:32.820 to control them but we are children of god we are not children of the state the state tells you there

01:22:38.880 is no god the empire tells you that nothing is real if it can't be measured and then it acts like

01:22:44.400 God. It wants to control every aspect of your life. And like God, it wants you to come innocently

01:22:48.660 like little children. It wants to determine right and wrong. Even something like wokeism. And a

01:22:53.800 couple of times you've said that I'm sort of right wing. And I would like to say that I don't

01:22:56.820 agree with those taxonomies or labels anymore. I'm a follower of Jesus. And if more people follow

01:23:03.220 Jesus, I believe the world will just naturally improve. Because as C.S. Lewis said, if you have

01:23:08.300 lawyers that are Christian, they'll run the law in a Christian way. If you have media commentators

01:23:13.400 they're christian they'll do their job every role could do with christ being in charge of it now

01:23:18.760 what i see when you live in an anti-christ world where you deny connection where you deny eternal

01:23:23.040 life where you deny the love of god where you say you're just a you're an insignificant set of

01:23:27.440 molecules in infinite space that somehow has evolved to the point where it's even able to

01:23:32.080 make that assessment which is one of the great paradoxes of atheism of course that the instrument

01:23:36.520 with which you've deduced there is no meaning is itself a result of these meaningless procedures

01:23:42.400 How can you ever make such an assessment while telling us they do that, that they can do that?

01:23:47.560 Their rationalism always leads you to the same place, whether it's the bombast and, you know, let's face it, media brilliance of Donald Trump or the kind of sterile charisma of Barack Obama.

01:23:59.140 It always leads to them being in control, you needing them, you paying too much tax,

01:24:06.540 you ceding too much control, police forces that are disoriented and exhausted and not respected

01:24:13.480 and not living in the communities that they're policing. We can change all of it. We can change

01:24:18.920 it with ideas that people purportedly believe in already. We've got people in government telling us

01:24:23.820 that they're Christian. Let's see the Christianity. Get back to that. Let's do it. 0.99

01:24:28.360 And people running every country in the world, more or less, that say they believe in democracy.

01:24:33.680 Democracy, if it doesn't mean that we govern in accordance with the will of the people, means nothing.

01:24:39.060 What democracy means, I have been taught these days, is these institutions that we control constitute democracy.

01:24:47.920 We're going to put them all around the world and control them there.

01:24:50.360 But we could have democracy.

01:24:51.620 The technology exists.

01:24:52.780 I mean, look, we thought we were getting that when we elected Trump.

01:24:55.960 Did you?

01:24:56.820 Yeah, I did.

01:24:57.740 I don't know.

01:24:58.080 I'm maybe I'm naive. I'm old, but I'm naive. I don't I just I just thought that Trump really

01:25:02.660 meant it when he promised to buck the system. He promised he couldn't be bought. He was bought

01:25:07.780 like the Miriam Maddelson, $250 million bought him on Iran and Israel. And he's doing exactly

01:25:15.220 what she wanted him to do. He was manipulated by Netanyahu. She's thrilled. This is not what

01:25:20.760 his base wanted. And it's unfortunate. I didn't think Trump could be bought. I really believed

01:25:25.280 that he couldn't. It's hugely disappointing. And I feel as many do, which is it's a betrayal.

01:25:31.580 A lot of my audience disagrees with me and I understand their POV too, but that's how I feel

01:25:36.300 on Trump. What do you think they love about Trump still once the migration from America first

01:25:43.940 politics becomes evident? What is it? The charisma, the figure? Because what I like about him is his

01:25:49.720 energy. I was like, Trump was coming into a set when I was 2015. I was like, this guy's crazy.

01:25:53.680 that's ridiculous it's not possible but the second time but i liked it the the central powers didn't

01:25:59.040 get what they wanted i liked that same as with brexit i don't care about brexit eu not eu i don't

01:26:03.340 care about admin but what i like is when you see the people not behave as they're supposed to i

01:26:08.860 love that but what is it this time what's happened megan and what and people that still love him

01:26:13.620 what is it that they still love there's a lot um i think his sense of humor is very endearing is

01:26:20.360 very charming and um you know he can actually be very self-deprecating which is charming too 0.99

01:26:25.720 especially given the amount of power that he has uh i think the amount of shit that's been thrown 0.96

01:26:31.080 at him and his unwillingness to stay down you know he just gets back up no matter what people 0.99

01:26:36.380 do to him no i mean try to put him in jail multiple times they tried to ruin his family

01:26:40.300 they tried to kill him you know i mean so much has happened to him and he just keeps going like

01:26:45.380 you just cannot stand him down. And that's very admirable. For most of his time in the public eye,

01:26:51.420 he has had all the right enemies. You know, he stood up against the race dogma, the trans dogma, 0.97

01:26:58.620 the xenophobe dogma about having a Southern border in a way that was very admirable. And

01:27:03.880 we needed desperately because we were losing those wars. You know, the woke thing was taking

01:27:08.320 over in every department with our children, with our lives and our employment. And Trump was the

01:27:13.820 bulwark against it saying, hell no. And he had this sheer strength and power to turn it all

01:27:19.880 around. He really did. It was like the parting of the seas. I will just make this happen despite

01:27:26.460 all odds with my immense power. So all of that has been just inspirational, inspirational. I think

01:27:34.880 many of us just like Trump. We like his personality. But then the other truth of it is

01:27:40.840 there are aspects of his personality which are obviously not good and that we've mostly just

01:27:46.600 chosen to overlook. You know, he's not a moral man. He's obviously not the greatest husband

01:27:51.000 in the world. And he's extremely petty and thin-skinned, extremely petty and thin-skinned. 0.82

01:27:56.180 And what we're seeing right now is he's churning on his most loyal supporters because they don't 0.98

01:28:01.760 support this war and getting in bed with people who fucking hate him and have hated him from the 0.97

01:28:08.140 beginning and were the original never Trumpers as though that's what MAGA is. That's what his 0.99

01:28:13.280 core support should look like. Meanwhile, there are many who are over here who have loved Trump

01:28:17.640 for many, many years. We've had our skirmishes in the past. Tucker's had skirmishes with him.

01:28:21.820 I have too, but who fought harder than a lot of others during the law fair against him to make 0.90

01:28:27.140 sure people knew that it was bullshit, stood up for him during the actual electoral contest to

01:28:32.240 make sure people understood what was at stake and why he had to be the choice, who he just, 0.91

01:28:38.480 you know, there's no loyalty in return ever from Trump, ever. If you have a principled

01:28:42.180 disagreement with something he does, you're otherized, you're the enemy. And at this

01:28:47.360 particular moment, he's alienating so many of his core supporters, biggest believers and boosters

01:28:53.540 and running to people who have not been able to stand him for 10 years, like a Mark Levin

01:29:00.820 or a Ben Shapiro who actively was against Trump.

01:29:03.820 He was a total DeSantis guy.

01:29:05.320 He only went on board with Trump

01:29:06.520 when DeSantis was, of course, toast

01:29:09.220 and he had no choice but to save his audience

01:29:11.860 and get on board with a Republican nominee.

01:29:14.040 Whatever, it is what it is.

01:29:17.100 You know, it is what it is.

01:29:18.260 But there's still, in my view, a lot to like about Trump.

01:29:21.320 It's just some of those darker demons

01:29:24.380 are much more in the front view right now

01:29:26.980 because he's like a cornered animal.

01:29:28.400 He's got no support in this Iran war.

01:29:29.980 He can't bring it to an end. These are tough motherfuckers who are not doing what we want them 1.00

01:29:33.660 to and coming to the negotiating table and giving us what we want so we can get out and just declare 0.99

01:29:37.720 it a win. He sees his poll numbers are now his latest poll approval on Iran was 30 at 30%. I

01:29:45.160 mean, his job approval in like the last five polls has been in the low 30s, low 30s. So his legacy's

01:29:52.520 on the line and you can tell he can tell. So he's acting out in a very, very bad way. And I, my

01:29:59.020 prayer every night, every night, Russell, is that he will get back on track. He will reconnect with

01:30:04.780 what, you know, the agenda that we put him in office to enact. He will extract himself from

01:30:10.040 this very money-driven agenda by the Miriam Adelsons of the world. You know, she's purchasing 0.99

01:30:15.280 what she wants, and Trump's being manipulated into doing it, which is infuriating. And that

01:30:20.940 the country, or at least those of us who are on what I call team sanity, can come back together 0.84

01:30:25.280 and work to defeat these crazy leftists like James Carville, who wants to pack the Supreme

01:30:29.440 Court and add Puerto Rico and D.C. as states, right? Like the Republicans will never win 0.93

01:30:34.140 another national election if we do that. Anyway, it's a very tumultuous time.

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01:32:01.400 It sounds deeply tumultuous.

01:32:03.340 It sounded like you, points feel like personally betrayed

01:32:07.660 as an advocate for Trump

01:32:09.080 and at other times ideologically betrayed.

01:32:12.520 And with this war, some of the larger points I've seen sort of play out over a long time

01:32:19.700 because I don't have anything like the granular detail or the journalistic excellence

01:32:23.140 that you've just displayed in describing that.

01:32:25.060 But from my sort of more vague and hazy perspective, like what I've seen,

01:32:29.200 I've just seen people saying, oh, well, Trump always had those views about Iran.

01:32:32.540 Trump always said that Iran...

01:32:33.920 That's what they say.

01:32:34.460 That's what they say. 0.59

01:32:35.480 And that Iran, if they were ever to develop a nuclear capacity.

01:32:39.620 Now, for me, those arguments seem, in one case, irrelevant, that he's always felt it,

01:32:44.960 and in the second instance, very similar to the weapons of mass destruction argument that was used.

01:32:52.080 That's it, exactly.

01:32:52.800 So I wonder then, what is this force, this power, that is so sufficient that it would even...

01:33:00.360 See, don't you say something with great leaders and great people?

01:33:03.340 All it is, is just for a moment, they're the temporary conductor.

01:33:06.200 You know, Churchill, very fallible, broken, alcoholic, depressive, lunatic, who, not necessarily lunatic, but for a moment, was able to carry world opposition against, as best we can understand, this great force for evil.

01:33:21.020 So with Trump, what do you suppose is happening? 0.71

01:33:24.060 Do you think bought in a sort of financial and economic way?

01:33:27.700 Do you think compromised in the post-Epstein world?

01:33:31.840 We all have to assume that it seems that people largely are.

01:33:34.400 What is this power that is so large that it can wrangle this gargantuan male away from what seemed to be his evident trajectory to at least continue to consolidate a very large group of supporters?

01:33:51.200 I mean, I think on Israel, in the Republican Party, there's never been any downside to being 100% pro-Israel.

01:33:58.020 From the time I started at Fox News in 2004 until only very recently, in the Republican Party, there was no downside to saying you were 100% on Team Israel, to promote Israel, to go visit Israel, to take money from AIPAC.

01:34:11.960 That was—no one in the Republican politics would ever second-guess it or judge it.

01:34:16.580 it's only been more recent because, well, I mean, Gaza, I mean, that's really one of the main

01:34:22.620 things. It was happening on the left prior to Gaza, but the violence that Israel unleashed

01:34:27.880 on civilians in Gaza just got to pass the point where you could overlook it as a friend who was

01:34:33.980 like looking at your friend who got attacked viciously on 10-7 and trying to look the other

01:34:37.480 way. Like some of these civilian casualties are going to happen. It's war. It happened when we

01:34:41.440 did wars too, but like to the point where it's like, geez, like this is out of control. Like it

01:34:47.740 defended you a lot of times on the genocide claim, uh, you know, tens of thousands more and more and

01:34:54.380 more. You're kind of undermining my ability to root for you, nevermind defend you. And I think

01:34:59.360 Republicans started to feel it too. Young Republicans first, and they started to migrate

01:35:03.600 away from Israel. So the stakes changed like this ardent support of Israel no longer became

01:35:08.180 totally acceptable within Republican politics. And the coalition that was totally pro-Israel 0.56

01:35:13.300 started to fracture. The Democrats left, the independents left, the Republicans started to

01:35:17.540 trickle away with the youth first going entirely, entirely. And now the only people who really

01:35:22.660 support Israel are senior citizen Republicans. People basically are 65 or around there or older

01:35:29.240 and Republican. Those are the ones who are still pro-Israel, which includes Trump. And he didn't

01:35:34.340 get it. Like he did not have his finger on the pulse of where the party was on Israel. And still,

01:35:39.580 I think, thought he could do something that would be great for Israel, which is start a war with 0.96

01:35:44.220 Iran. And it would go over well, that his core base would applaud him for it. And I believe him 0.97

01:35:50.820 that he never wanted Iran to have a nuclear weapon. I think those statements were sincere.

01:35:56.120 But more than that, he promised no new wars and no wars in the Middle East, which last time I

01:36:00.220 Act includes Iran. And so, but if Trump had looked at us and said, and Tulsi Gabbard had

01:36:05.080 looked at us and Joe Kent had looked at us and the IAEA had looked at us and said, Iran is within

01:36:10.960 a month of getting a nuclear bomb, the country would have stood behind Trump. We would have

01:36:15.300 believed them, but that's not what happened. The IAEA and Tulsi and Joe Kent, they all said, no,

01:36:22.200 they're not. They don't have the capacity to get a nuclear bomb. They're nowhere close to getting

01:36:25.760 a nuclear bomb. And by the way, those strikes we did last June were very effective.

01:36:30.220 in dismantling whatever nuclear program they had, whether it was civilian or not. And they'd been

01:36:33.980 enriching beyond civilian needs. So it wasn't true that they were about to get it. If it had been,

01:36:40.540 the country would have gotten behind him and we would have looked at that secret escape hatch from 0.88

01:36:44.000 No New Wars of unless Iran's about to get a nuclear weapon. It wasn't true. He used that 0.86

01:36:50.280 excuse that he had always said they can't have a nuclear bomb to do what Netanyahu wanted him to do

01:36:58.700 and what Netanyahu convinced Trump to do,

01:37:01.380 which was to start a war with them.

01:37:02.700 And he did that because he was razzle dazzled

01:37:04.960 by Netanyahu into believing that

01:37:07.020 the Ayatollah is going to be above ground.

01:37:08.860 So are his top emissaries. 0.84

01:37:09.920 We can take them out. 1.00

01:37:11.000 They tried to kill you. 0.95

01:37:12.080 Now you can get him before he gets you. 0.99

01:37:14.080 It'll be like Venezuela. 0.99

01:37:15.180 You'll get in, you'll get out. 1.00

01:37:16.240 You'll be a hero.

01:37:17.180 You'll change the whole world

01:37:18.380 because a kinder, gentler Jeb Bartlett type 0.93

01:37:20.500 is going to take over in Iran

01:37:22.200 and be the new Ayatollah,

01:37:23.760 the sweet, loving one who sends his cookies

01:37:25.420 upon his ascension.

01:37:27.140 And Trump listened.

01:37:28.700 Netanyahu playing him like a fiddle. He played to his hubris, which is exactly how you're supposed

01:37:34.640 to manipulate Trump. All these world leaders know it. Look how they bend the knee at NATO now.

01:37:39.240 You know, it's ridiculous. Oh, my daddy, our daddy. It's like, oh, my God. That's what they do. Look 0.97

01:37:44.020 at the cabinet members at the cabinet meetings. Oh, thanks to you, Mr. President. It's like they

01:37:50.600 all have to kiss his ass before they give their updates because they're trying to manipulate him 1.00

01:37:55.360 into keeping them in their roles and into liking them. 1.00

01:37:58.560 And that's all well and good.

01:37:59.600 It never really bothered me that much.

01:38:01.040 I don't love it, but it doesn't.

01:38:02.380 But when it's working to start wars,

01:38:05.100 it's deeply problematic.

01:38:07.360 And it's how we got in this mess.

01:38:08.960 With people like, say, Thomas Massey,

01:38:10.940 who would have long contested this would play out

01:38:13.780 in this manner, or any average pick-em-it random Democrat

01:38:17.740 that would have said, if, well, don't you remember

01:38:20.100 what they were saying is if you vote for Trump,

01:38:22.100 it's going to bring about global annihilation

01:38:24.200 and all of the, you know, what they call Trump derangement syndrome.

01:38:29.020 Now, do you say that your adjustment is as a result of action

01:38:33.460 and therefore legitimate and anyone,

01:38:35.400 like whether it's you or Tucker or Candice

01:38:36.720 or people whose opinions matter in this country,

01:38:39.360 you have a responsibility to alter your perspective

01:38:42.780 on the basis of new information and evidence

01:38:45.620 or is there a concession to be made to those people

01:38:50.220 that prior to Trump 0.20, however you say that thing,

01:38:53.860 were saying, you can't have this guy in Chahit and Narcissus,

01:38:56.820 you know, all of the stuff that they said.

01:38:58.160 Do you feel any of that?

01:38:59.840 Or is it like, because where I am, not that you've asked,

01:39:03.560 but like, you know, just to add this,

01:39:05.300 is that we all feel that politicians like Barack Obama, Netanyahu,

01:39:10.320 Tony Blair, not we all, some people feel that those people are kind of,

01:39:13.800 whether they're the sort of compromised political class

01:39:16.900 that is epitomized by the Epstein stuff or not,

01:39:20.860 there is some way that they are controlled.

01:39:23.000 that's what people feel they're controlled they're not really in charge there's a set of powers

01:39:27.680 that are beyond and behind them and maybe it's a cultist maybe not difficult to corroborate who

01:39:32.140 knows where do you stand on that and do you not feel what do you feel now like where do we go

01:39:39.900 now because you're not gonna get another trump you're not gonna get another populist like that

01:39:45.340 yeah so like where do you put your political vigor and influence in light of all this well i certainly

01:39:52.580 i'm not thinking gee we should have gone with kamala yeah at all i mean because as as upset

01:39:58.040 as many of us are about this war trump closed the border which saved countless lives trump did issue

01:40:05.440 a bunch of his executive orders on the trans issue which saved a bunch of children's lives

01:40:09.980 um and you know trinity hhs that's all good huge i mean we could do more i have to be honest like

01:40:16.940 there's more that kennedy could do standby let's leave it there i'm gonna i'm gonna take a break

01:40:22.420 do an ad, and we're going to pick it back up on the opposite side with Russell Brand. Buy his book,

01:40:26.020 How to Become a Christian in Seven Days. He sticks around. Quick break first.

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01:42:16.040 channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app. We are back now with Russell Brand. His new book

01:42:26.640 is How to Become a Christian in Seven Days. It's out now. Go get it on tuckercarlson.com,

01:42:34.720 because this is the first of the new Tucker imprints. So we were talking about Trump when

01:42:39.400 we last left off, which is, that's all we've been talking about for 10 years. Trump dominates

01:42:45.380 every thought and every conversation.

01:42:47.220 But what were you trying to ask me?

01:42:48.760 Well, I'm trying to ask you anything.

01:42:50.080 I was successfully asking you,

01:42:51.540 where do you put your political enthusiasm

01:42:54.180 if you've been disabused of the notion

01:42:56.280 that any political leader,

01:42:57.720 no matter how charismatic and demagogic,

01:43:00.160 is going to achieve anything,

01:43:02.760 that they will ultimately be subsumed

01:43:05.080 by some invisible interests

01:43:06.460 that appear to steer world power?

01:43:08.340 What do you do next?

01:43:08.740 Yeah, and you were saying,

01:43:09.520 could it happen to like a Thomas Massey?

01:43:11.240 I actually don't think it could happen to a Thomas Massey.

01:43:13.660 I don't think it could happen to a Rand Paul.

01:43:15.380 No, I was using Thomas Massey as an example of someone that sort of trod the line.

01:43:19.620 Like that guy, he's, no, this is my views, this is my views.

01:43:22.960 They're trying to buy me, I'm not doing it.

01:43:24.740 Like someone that's sort of shown kind of an integrity,

01:43:27.300 and I mean integrity in the sense of he's remained sort of in alignment.

01:43:31.040 And I think there was a red flag on Trump because what was he at heart?

01:43:33.860 A dealmaker.

01:43:34.980 Right.

01:43:35.540 He's been a dealmaker his whole life.

01:43:37.560 And that should have been maybe more of a red flag.

01:43:40.620 that there's no core principles in there

01:43:44.560 that are driving him on most issues.

01:43:48.220 There are a couple.

01:43:49.280 I do believe he's against illegal immigration. 0.94

01:43:54.020 I do believe he saw genuine concerns

01:43:56.360 around the trade war

01:43:57.920 and manufacturing and what China was doing.

01:44:00.820 I think that was sincere

01:44:01.660 and we've seen him try to do something about that.

01:44:05.680 He's got sincere beliefs about

01:44:07.380 doing business with other nations

01:44:09.760 and how we can make America richer.

01:44:12.140 And I think like all that glad handing he did

01:44:14.560 with his Saudi Arabia summit where he's like,

01:44:16.560 yeah, you're gonna invest in America, great.

01:44:18.240 We're all gonna get rich.

01:44:19.160 We don't have to like hate each other anymore.

01:44:20.460 I think that was sincere.

01:44:21.780 But that deal maker thing is probably

01:44:24.020 what got us into trouble on the Iran thing.

01:44:26.620 So I don't know.

01:44:27.160 I rarely put my faith in politicians.

01:44:29.900 I'm not sure I ever really totally put it in Trump.

01:44:32.300 I fell in love with Trump's professional promises to us.

01:44:34.880 Like I really believed he would close the border. 1.00

01:44:37.720 He would kick out the illegals, that he would stop the trans mania. 1.00

01:44:44.140 I believe that he would crack down on crime to the extent you can at the federal level. 1.00

01:44:48.000 And I have to say he's lived up to those promises, except for the deportations.

01:44:52.320 He has closed the border. 0.88

01:44:53.420 He has done a lot on trans.

01:44:54.480 He has tried to do what a president can on crime.

01:44:57.320 And I'm grateful for all those things. 0.64

01:44:58.600 But, you know, this other stuff, Epstein, Iran, the economy have been pretty disastrous.

01:45:04.820 Okay, so it's like you are quite objective. And while I'm listening to you, I'm remembering that famous moment, I think, in the primaries where he said red eyes and red blood coming out of my eyes and out of my wherever.

01:45:16.340 So it's a kind of like that's a kind of one of the most memorable and whoa, Trump kind of pop culture moments. But now from a it seems from a well versed studied and journalistic perspective, you're saying that Trump isn't fulfilling his pledge to his voter base.

01:45:34.160 And what I'm curious about is the problem we have, Megan, as content creators, is that we can just live in the mad vicissitudes of never-ending conflict and just sort of find a path through it.

01:45:46.820 Someone's telling me, oh, a lot of people think that Tucker has become more expressive or condemnatory of Trump and in particular regarding foreign policy in Israel, obviously.

01:45:57.460 There's a kind of a tactical move.

01:45:59.040 There's a strategic move.

01:46:00.040 There's a way of garnering audience.

01:46:01.280 That's a lie.

01:46:01.720 I really don't feel that either.

01:46:04.160 about tucker at all or anyone actually or you know people we're discussing but so but what i'm

01:46:10.240 i'm trying to ask and i suppose now i am trying to ask is like where do you put your enthusiasm

01:46:15.980 now because 28 jd vance like where do you go okay but this time because me i can't i've reverted to

01:46:25.340 where i was as a kid and a smackhead a drug addict saying you can't trust any of them because there

01:46:31.760 are systems that control them and it doesn't matter how as long as these systems are fundamentally

01:46:35.440 controlled by the same interests whether they're global bureaucratic yeah or deep state they call

01:46:39.340 that being blackpilled so where do we as if that if we're blackpilled then and me as a follower of

01:46:45.680 jesus and you're christian hey yeah where right so where do we go where do we go when it comes to

01:46:52.000 advocacy what are you saying well the next the next step is relative evils oh great well i don't like

01:46:58.040 that. I know it's unfortunate, but that's the next logical step because it is a binary system.

01:47:03.660 One of them is going to ascend to power and you have to choose the lesser of two evils. That's

01:47:09.440 really what it's always been about. You know, I mean, even with Trump, you know, he asked me to

01:47:15.640 come speak for him and, and, you know, go to that rally and sort of endorse him the night before the

01:47:20.380 vote. And I, I did wrestle with it, but something inside of me told me you have to do it because I

01:47:26.440 knew, I knew we'd be in far worse shape if Kamala Harris won. She could not win. There was just

01:47:31.620 absolutely no way we could allow that. So it wasn't like I love and adore Trump. You know,

01:47:37.820 personally, he and I have always had a friction between us. You know, it's been very complicated

01:47:43.940 between us for many, many years, which is good. I would take complicated. I'm a journalist. You

01:47:49.320 know, I never wanted to be his bootlicker and I never have been. I never have been. He and I have

01:47:54.480 had ups and downs and i've been critical at times and very very promotional at other times um but i

01:48:01.200 knew that he was better than she was yeah and i still feel like we'll have to make that choice

01:48:06.100 next time around but look i i have voted in nine presidential elections um five of them i voted

01:48:14.020 republican and four of them i voted democrat and they have it wasn't all like the four when i was

01:48:18.860 super young you know like i am a true independent i will make up my mind based on the person who

01:48:25.060 gets the nomination and go from there and what what does the country look like what are the

01:48:29.240 issues that are really important right now but megan from where we are now what level of

01:48:34.300 independence does that demonstrate really when surely what we have agreed on is that there is

01:48:39.060 no meaningful transaction taking place in the tension of a bipartisan system well but take what

01:48:46.540 i just said like what if your top issue is and my my two top issues were the border and the trans

01:48:51.700 thing and trump did a good job on those um i'd like the deportations to to happen but like we've 0.99

01:48:57.600 made so much progress on the trans thing we're not we are still cutting off the penises of little 0.96

01:49:01.420 boys but not as often as as we used to i did one this morning and the the whole the whole messaging 0.89

01:49:09.400 around it has changed the olympics changed this is all thanks to trump all these hospitals are

01:49:14.600 stopping the procedures. That's thanks to Trump. So we've gotten something.

01:49:18.680 But compared to potential Armageddon and yielding to perhaps the supreme forces that

01:49:24.180 ultimately control the world, those are pyrrhic victories indeed.

01:49:27.860 Somebody had to ascend. So what are you going to do? Like completely

01:49:31.260 withdraw from the process altogether? Seed the arguments? Let the Democrats make two new states

01:49:38.660 so we'll never see a Republican in national power again? Like, no, I have to fight those battles.

01:49:42.700 What if the, can we not generate new battles by proposing radical systemic change and the radical decentralization of political power?

01:49:55.380 I'm asking you this because I'm curious.

01:49:56.560 We'd have to get rid of the two-party system.

01:49:58.400 Yeah, the first thing you'd have to do is get rid of the two-party primary system.

01:50:01.500 Cool, just do that.

01:50:02.460 I mean, you know, why are people not acknowledging that if the technology exists for all of us to carry digital ID, essentially 70 percent of the global population to get vaccinated overnight from either a made up or potentially not as threatening as it was presented disease, then why don't we collectively, particularly people that have extraordinary sway?

01:50:22.860 And indeed, if you are about to face extraordinary attacks, it's precisely as a result of the influence and impact you could have.

01:50:29.820 Why? I'm curious. Genuinely, it's a real question because I'm trying to understand it myself.

01:50:33.600 What if these voices in independent media became overtly and deliberately active in politics?

01:50:40.760 Doesn't that have the extraordinary salve of resolving these cultural issues instantly?

01:50:48.060 i.e. if there is a community that wants to be run according in accordance with sharia law within

01:50:54.500 some state somewhere then allow them to democratically do it if there is a community

01:51:00.240 that want to have a sort of a trans utopia allow them to do it however in these communities we

01:51:07.380 want to maximally run them in accordance with these principles in a sense what is the point

01:51:13.780 of nations of this size and scale do you not consider that the rise of nationalism was itself

01:51:21.180 a response to globalism and people beginning to sense that there was no natural national sovereignty

01:51:26.840 in france or in germany or in sri lanka or in the united states of america and if you look at trends

01:51:31.200 like for example the rise of agricultural protests it's an indication that through global bureaucratic

01:51:36.840 edicts they're trying to control food sourcing yep and indeed then if there is a global problem

01:51:42.900 perhaps because of the miracle of this new communication in which you are a leader that

01:51:48.420 we could be advocating not just for a different incumbent in a corrupt system but a different

01:51:55.420 system entirely and it's not that long ago 250 years or wherever it was since the establishment

01:52:00.060 of your great country that even when the war of independence was won against the other country

01:52:04.660 don't remember who lost it but i'm sure they had some good points and a reasonable king

01:52:08.540 who was not syphilitic, syphilitic and mad.

01:52:13.240 Many, like isn't it Patrick Henry, said we've got to go further.

01:52:16.960 Too much centralization.

01:52:19.000 Empower states and then the states empower communities

01:52:21.400 and the communities empower the individual.

01:52:23.400 And you have to end the problem of donation has to end.

01:52:28.340 Lobbying has to end.

01:52:29.600 Unless you make those kind of proposals,

01:52:31.820 unless you make the position of leadership a position of service

01:52:35.600 so that you don't even attract those people.

01:52:37.880 Smaller or just smaller.

01:52:39.400 Wherever possible.

01:52:40.320 Yeah, much, much smaller.

01:52:41.520 De-ideologize it.

01:52:43.540 Look, I love your optimism.

01:52:45.380 I guess I'm just a cynical mofo at heart where I'm like, that's never going to happen.

01:52:48.580 You don't seem cynical.

01:52:49.960 I'm a little cynical on this front.

01:52:51.320 I just feel like there's too much money.

01:52:54.500 There are too many entrenched interests that control all of this that I feel no cogs in the wheel are going to change it.

01:53:01.920 But maybe I'm wrong.

01:53:02.860 Maybe I should be more optimistic.

01:53:04.140 No cogs in the wheel will.

01:53:04.780 But I will say one thing to your point.

01:53:06.560 I think that this little ecosystem of, you know, independent voices is important.

01:53:13.340 People are getting killed for it.

01:53:14.820 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:53:15.920 People are getting shot dead in public because of the impact, it seems to me.

01:53:19.520 People are having their reputations tarnished, I think, precisely because of that.

01:53:23.580 So what my interest is, is why are we pretending that we are at an advantage when you centralize power?

01:53:32.280 Of course, there are areas where central coordination is beneficial, but the principle ought be decentralization and democracy.

01:53:41.780 These are not new ideas.

01:53:43.080 If the technology that existed today existed when this nation was founded, how much power would they have afforded at the local level?

01:53:51.900 They would have afforded more.

01:53:53.480 Yeah, a lot.

01:53:53.860 Now that technology does exist.

01:53:55.440 That, of course, was the original ideal anyway.

01:53:57.760 That was the whole goal of having these little states that were experimental and a very small national federal government that would – we'd all join and that would be sort of – we'd have some basic ideals that would be enforced at that level.

01:54:09.620 But that each state could have its own personality and its own laws and its own culture.

01:54:14.860 That was always the vision for America.

01:54:16.980 It's only as the country went on that we got a more bloated and empowered federal government that we then ceded a bunch of powers, you know, from the congressional branch, which is the people's representative to the executive branch.

01:54:29.340 It's gotten bigger and bigger under Obama, under Biden and now under Trump.

01:54:35.480 I'd love to get back to where we have a very, very, very tiny, disempowered executive who really can't do much. 0.97

01:54:43.460 Yeah, that'd be great. 0.99

01:54:44.280 That would be much more consistent with the way the founders wanted the country to be run.

01:54:47.700 And now with the technology that we have, that flow, that charge could be reversed.

01:54:52.080 It's absolutely possible that people could participate in democracy.

01:54:55.380 When I've had to do it, like in 12-step groups that I'm a member of,

01:54:59.320 they're democratic and it's slow and it's boring.

01:55:02.100 And it doesn't matter how well you think you talk or how charismatic you think you are.

01:55:06.360 You only have one vote and you only have one voice.

01:55:09.420 And so if they want a coffee machine, they'll get one.

01:55:11.960 If they don't want a coffee machine, they won't get one.

01:55:14.280 It's humbling, and it's cohesive, and he has no favourites, our Lord.

01:55:18.380 He sees us all, you're all just my kids, I love you all,

01:55:21.180 I made you perfect and individual, you're exactly as you're meant to be.

01:55:24.000 And then we won't dislocate into bizarre crazies like wokeism,

01:55:28.480 the important principle of kindness and compassion.

01:55:31.280 We know that our Lord, if he were here, would love people that were confused

01:55:35.040 and broken and concerned and trying to align their inner self

01:55:38.080 with an outer world that they felt didn't understand them.

01:55:40.280 We know that the broken, that were lost in the fentanyl crisis,

01:55:44.280 would find comfort in him i feel that he has to have the government resting on his shoulders we

01:55:50.640 can't let human beings run society through rationalism with the idea that human authority

01:55:56.760 and the human mind is the supreme system of judgment and i feel like i know what i'm asking

01:56:04.080 actually because i don't know anything what the last few years has taught me is how little i know

01:56:07.240 about anything but what i'm wondering oh my god same why not have dissolve dissolve power wherever

01:56:14.100 possible wherever possible allow people to run their own communities locally grow food locally

01:56:20.180 do not put poisonous substances into food or water or the air do not try to control nature

01:56:27.160 have independence when it comes to the manufacturing of your food and utilities

01:56:31.220 lose your obsession and fixation with gadgets and endless progress it's not going to answer

01:56:36.780 of the problem even the mad and giddy progress and ascent of the false gods of neuralink et al

01:56:43.500 will come tumbling down eventually we are made to be custodians and stewards to the land and 0.76

01:56:49.660 we're here to love one another and these ideas are perfectly expressed and the miracle of my

01:56:54.280 christianity let me for one second talk about this book and not do my trial practice which

01:56:58.860 you have been very good at thank you for being a compassionate and judicious interrogator when

01:57:03.100 it's come to those complex matters but what i really want to say is that the reason i became

01:57:07.780 christian is because what i had learned as an addict in recovery that this world can never

01:57:12.320 give you what you think it can give you not through drugs not through sex not through fame

01:57:15.920 not through approval applause or anything christ has it for you already and he's waiting to give

01:57:21.620 it to you and i thought i was so smart i thought i was so smart i'm counter-cultural before you

01:57:28.460 were talking about red pills and blue pills. I'd already taken so many hallucinogens. I'd seen

01:57:33.720 through all of the veils and walls of your phony systems. Then I read that book, the holy book. I

01:57:39.260 read the Bible. And what does it say in there throughout the New Testament? Be careful in this

01:57:43.680 world. The devil's in control. It's fallen into the control of someone who's going to create

01:57:47.740 systems that seem like God's kingdom, but they're actually false, completely false. Don't trust any

01:57:53.280 leaders they're all broken and fallen even the wisest kings we've ever had may fall into corruption 0.98

01:57:59.340 and concubines and idiocy because of hubris because of vanity vanity all is vanity what do i learn in

01:58:05.860 there that god loves us so much that not only does he create us to be in relationship with one another 0.98

01:58:10.220 that he is willing to absorb all of our sins and our brokenness and the worst things you could say

01:58:14.360 about yourself and think about yourself he knows them all and he loves you anyway and it doesn't

01:58:19.540 matter if you think you're born in the wrong body and it doesn't matter if you think you don't fit

01:58:22.540 in with this tribe or that tribe or you don't fit in or you don't belong. He loves you. He made you

01:58:26.780 to be as you are. And we can't outsource power anymore to ideologues who don't understand the

01:58:33.180 most basic principles of unison. We are all his son. He loves all of us. He don't want us hating

01:58:38.760 Muslims. He don't want us hating gay people or trans people or people south of the border or 0.95

01:58:42.940 north of the border. He wants us to be one family. And reason decoupled from the divine leads to a

01:58:48.940 kind of insanity but reason is a perfect and beautiful tool for organizing resources if we

01:58:54.040 recognize our place as his children but when we start to clamber above him which by the way was

01:58:59.180 the flaw of satan satan's self the fallen one who wants to run his own counterfeit kingdom who

01:59:04.260 thinks there is no god who poses as a god then we get into very very deep trouble so i don't even

01:59:10.300 really care if this book gets read or not read or creates one christian or no christians or many

01:59:17.600 many christians all i'm really interested in is participating in something truthful and valuable

01:59:22.980 even when i come on your podcast i don't want to sit here and try and persuade people that i am

01:59:26.960 something that i'm not although it wasn't something that other people say i am i'm gonna die you're 0.55

01:59:31.340 gonna die we're all gonna die that's the truth of our situation now while we're here do you want to 0.99

01:59:37.640 stay in some stupid fetishized hatred or do you want to participate in the coming of his kingdom 0.99

01:59:44.340 which is what you are called to do and if ideas occur to you that might bring that about don't be 0.99

01:59:50.680 afraid to openly share them don't be afraid to notice that the technology that you vote for pop

01:59:55.800 idols or x factors or some dumb thing for could be used to say i don't want to have a war with

02:00:01.920 iran i don't want one i'm not sending you my taxes i'm not doing that anymore we're not being radical 0.56

02:00:09.200 enough. We're not being Christian enough. We've forgotten who the God is that died for us.

02:00:15.320 You have to be bold and you have to be willing to die for it. And given what you're saying on

02:00:19.860 your show right now, it seems like you're willing to die for what you believe in. So

02:00:23.500 die for something worth believing. It's a risk we're all taking every day these days. I mean,

02:00:27.340 just being bold with our opinions and saying them unapologetically given the environment we're in.

02:00:32.060 So what about the title? Can you expand on that for the listening audience,

02:00:36.120 It's how to become a Christian in seven days.

02:00:37.940 What is it with the seven days? 0.90

02:00:39.660 I liked that the world was created in seven days

02:00:42.760 or all of reality was created in seven days.

02:00:44.860 And of course it can't have been

02:00:46.120 because day is a rotational astrophysical phenomena.

02:00:50.960 So seven, it's the number that means completeness,

02:00:54.820 become complete.

02:00:56.400 And then I liked that it had that little potential for a joke, 0.59

02:00:58.980 how to become Christian in seven days. 0.86

02:01:00.500 Asterisk may take 50 years.

02:01:02.200 And initially it said,

02:01:03.060 and false rape charges to get started.

02:01:04.920 but then when i was showing my daughters the book cover i didn't want to have to explain to them

02:01:10.620 so i changed it to serious f-ups yeah that and so that's what it means it means that and also

02:01:18.000 coming christian it's not like you actually you already are a christian you've just forgotten

02:01:22.920 because what it means is you're the follower of the way that's what it was called in the first

02:01:26.660 place there is this way there is a righteous path you can see it's a neurological path if you want

02:01:31.480 to because such things surely exist mris reveal that or you can see it as a geographical one

02:01:36.160 or you can see it in a whole bunch of meridian myriad meridian ways but there is a path there

02:01:42.160 is a way there is a calling there is a real you that you've always known you were and you got

02:01:46.660 distracted at points by glamour and the things of this world but there is a home calling for you

02:01:51.900 in a way the likes of you and me are participating in apostasy we are leaving a culture that told us 0.99

02:01:58.240 you are the golden and blonded goddess woman that's actually smart, you poor broken silly 0.99

02:02:04.860 little boy go out there and womanize, we can leave that false priesthood, we can leave that and we 0.99

02:02:10.640 can participate in something valuable and all it really is is God incarnated, God within you,

02:02:18.840 you can know God yourself, you don't need brokerage, you don't need institutions whether

02:02:23.380 They're vast and wonderful like the Roman Catholic Church or disparate and magnificent like the evangelical movement in this country or traditional like the Church of England in mine.

02:02:33.380 You don't need that brokerage. He is here now with you.

02:02:36.940 He died for you and he spent quite a lot of his time actually saying you lot that are saying you're the authorities are really misrepresenting the message as I understand it using the word with the Pharisees to demonstrate to them exactly how they've gone wrong.

02:02:49.620 that there are two forces of power in this world babylon the power of empire that wants to control 0.57

02:02:54.620 you militarily and the pharisaic class that wants to control you ideologically and our lord he came 0.85

02:02:59.540 to oppose both of them and to let them know that they were both wrong and forgiven and that we as 0.97

02:03:04.860 individuals could follow him and what we have a chance to do and what i'm really trying to put

02:03:09.840 across in this book actually and i'll shut up is it's in the bible all these things i thought i'd

02:03:15.460 understood like i can't trust this system i need the mystery of god where is god i feel so alone 0.63

02:03:20.140 i'm so broken all the things i was looking for in lsd and false intimacy all the things i was

02:03:25.080 trying to rant about at mtv vma awards it's all in there he's telling you it's all explained in

02:03:31.880 his own language and i like it like when he came to me he came to me as a feeling in my abdomen in

02:03:37.760 my gut it came in an instant a suicidal moment i knew christ was real like jesus from school

02:03:43.800 and nativity plays and boring oh no domine that's it's real and from that moment on i had to read

02:03:50.780 the bible and i read it and then i learned oh my god all of it is all in here it's all real

02:03:55.480 and it's so close to being crazy it's so close to being crazy it's so close to folklore and

02:04:01.080 mythology but these edgeland ideologues that we've cited already today the alex joneses who

02:04:07.840 is a christian of course or david ike who's vehemently opposed to christianity tell you

02:04:11.940 continually there are demonic, difficult to detect forces that are controlling our reality

02:04:17.440 supernaturally. They tell you that institutions are controlled by occultist endeavors. They tell

02:04:23.640 you that there are paedophile cults sacrificing children. None of that's not in the Bible. Every 0.96

02:04:27.620 single thing that I've just said is in the Bible. There are demons, there are devils, there are

02:04:31.020 angels, there were giants. To conquer those giants, you're going to have to think different.

02:04:35.680 You're going to have to think different. Ah, the sad ingenuity of Steve Jobs wrestled towards just

02:04:41.820 making gadgetry when he understood something vital connection and extension of yourself through

02:04:47.880 technology could bring about his kingdom the merging of the kingdoms a new kingdom is coming

02:04:55.000 it's changing it's happening now it's happening now through eternity in this moment now through

02:05:00.920 him and we can be participants in it if we're and this is where it's wonderful because everyone

02:05:05.320 thinks what can i do like you just said i'm just a cog in the mission and all of that well you're

02:05:08.780 actually a pretty important cog you're a vital cog you are a perfect cog you're interconnecting

02:05:13.360 actually you specifically megan beloved megan kelly are connecting with millions and millions

02:05:17.900 of people and people actually really care about what you're saying and if they hear your optimism

02:05:21.740 and your faith and your boldness and your bravery which they are hearing every day then they will

02:05:25.940 understand it they will know it you're the sheep will hear their the shepherd's voice they will

02:05:31.520 hear it in you they're hearing it now even in someone as broken as messed up as selfish as 0.90

02:05:36.420 foolish as me they know right we all have those foibles expressed in different sins and different 0.92

02:05:42.420 mistakes but we all have those foibles and speaking of katie perry hold on that was pretty skillful 0.92

02:05:48.920 go on well i wonder i've met doug now and i like him yeah i'm gonna read them books of dougs i

02:05:55.220 think you'll really enjoy them historical novel plus he's double handsome yeah right double dutch

02:05:59.320 handsome you said he looks like a dutch he looks like a dutch he is dutch and he looks dutch he's

02:06:04.080 tall he's got the wide set eyes he's got the angular face touch that dutch now but check first 0.94

02:06:09.540 don't put them clogs on without asking don't you put that finger in that dike without asking 0.81

02:06:14.580 don't you spin them windmills well don't you got that and frank museum who talked about a finger

02:06:19.620 in a dike that's a dutch story i'm just kidding sorry gotta be careful these days i went with it

02:06:24.440 um although look about where you're gonna go and you'll see a double joke uh because you're gonna

02:06:30.480 go back to your subject yes right and the last thing i said was oh that's true you're gonna say 0.91

02:06:34.900 okay so well how what is it like to have your ex-wife dating dyke justin trudeau 0.63

02:06:39.820 i've put up with a lot with that ex-wife of mine but you took it too far kp with true orlando bloom 0.77

02:06:48.620 yeah respectable legolas i love that guy yeah brilliant good fair enough trudeau though

02:06:55.780 Potentially Fidel Castro's spawn?

02:06:58.240 No.

02:06:59.040 There we draw the line.

02:07:00.340 It's horrible.

02:07:01.240 I did not like that Trudeau.

02:07:02.660 Because, no, he's a child of God and he's beloved.

02:07:05.160 But what I will say is I didn't like it when he was having a go at them truckers.

02:07:07.940 I didn't like they kept blacking up inexplicably and then sort of pretend to be ultra-woke.

02:07:11.680 He does have fantastic hair.

02:07:13.140 I didn't like it when they invited, I think, an actual Nazi into the Canadian Parliament. 0.93

02:07:18.120 Yes, they did. 0.56

02:07:18.600 I specifically don't like what is typified by those good-looking politicians, Obama, Macron, Blair.

02:07:25.860 They're sort of good-looking and they're charming.

02:07:28.160 But you think, who do you work for, really?

02:07:30.600 Who's running this?

02:07:31.520 Because it can't be you.

02:07:32.860 And I don't like that sort of pose of compassion that's absolutely undergirded by selfishness,

02:07:37.840 probably because I recognise it myself.

02:07:39.000 I'm so selfish sometimes.

02:07:40.300 But I don't like that.

02:07:42.120 The trucker bit is what got me.

02:07:43.460 They called them Nazis. 0.98

02:07:44.860 Yeah, it was ridiculous. 0.92

02:07:45.300 And they were just being sort of bold and brave and stuff.

02:07:47.760 So, yes, is she still going out with him?

02:07:50.260 Yeah.

02:07:50.740 We checked this morning, and it appears that they are still together.

02:07:53.500 Keep checking.

02:07:54.380 She could come to her senses any minute.

02:07:57.520 It is disappointing, isn't it, when your ex gets together with somebody

02:08:00.640 who, like, doesn't make you look good at all,

02:08:02.320 doesn't increase the average at all.

02:08:04.860 Look at the category I'm in now.

02:08:06.340 I'm in with Trudeau.

02:08:08.180 It'll be a relief to be in a rape trial.

02:08:10.840 See? 1.00

02:08:12.980 Phew!

02:08:14.820 Never lose your sense of humor.

02:08:16.160 Not even about the darkest.

02:08:17.540 Take that away from you, baby.

02:08:19.240 Do you guys keep in touch?

02:08:20.480 She said you never contacted her again after you sent her a note saying you wanted a divorce. 0.67

02:08:25.720 Look, that is true.

02:08:27.540 Wow.

02:08:28.460 Never anything, not a text?

02:08:30.180 I stay in touch with her father, Keith, and her mother, Mary, because they're good Christian folks.

02:08:36.700 And I must say I feel a good deal of sympathy with the recent allegations around Katie from 2010.

02:08:42.700 She's been accused of sexually assaulting Ruby Rose by allegedly, like, exposing her vag to this gal's face, which she's denied.

02:08:51.580 But there's a criminal inquiry underway in Australia as a result of these allegations.

02:08:55.040 To me, that doesn't, I mean, this is probably the old school man in me.

02:08:58.540 I don't even hear the crime there.

02:09:01.520 What happened?

02:09:02.760 I don't even, I can't even hear where it is.

02:09:04.960 Like, someone would have to poke me with a stick.

02:09:06.600 There, that's the bit that's a crime. 0.99

02:09:07.840 No 20-year-old girl wants another woman rubbing her vag on her face uninvited. 1.00

02:09:14.180 That's the crime. 1.00

02:09:14.920 There it is, Russell.

02:09:15.880 I got it.

02:09:16.520 Thank you.

02:09:17.040 I got you.

02:09:17.820 Are you available for the trial?

02:09:19.500 The puck is coming.

02:09:21.340 Yes, I will come.

02:09:22.520 Thank you.

02:09:23.260 She denies.

02:09:25.060 Again, Katy Perry denies that she did this.

02:09:25.940 I didn't handle that marriage very well.

02:09:27.400 I can see in retrospect absolutely what the problem was.

02:09:29.080 In fact, I explained that in the book.

02:09:30.220 What it was was-

02:09:30.880 Well, you said you were married to celebrity itself.

02:09:32.760 I worked it out.

02:09:33.760 So how so?

02:09:34.420 well because i you know look when you fall in love with someone like isn't it amazing to be in love

02:09:40.200 isn't it so amazing well imagine that sort of compounded with everyone else acting like it's

02:09:45.480 important it's like oh my god this is overwhelming plus she's a really lovely you know what there is

02:09:50.940 about her she's she's has an innocence she's a very beautiful person she's also incredibly driven

02:09:56.660 and worked really really hard i saw her working really really hard here's me taking total

02:10:01.080 responsibility for all the mistakes i made in that marriage i like wanted to grab her like kind of

02:10:06.420 there got it you know like i wanted i felt like i was inadequate and not enough on my own so i saw

02:10:12.640 this big glorious thing and even though i knew her as a person as well as a person she's a normal

02:10:17.300 person like everyone's a normal person you've been around famous people you know who's famous 0.99

02:10:20.920 when it comes to shower time picking your nose scratching your ass like everyone just breaks 0.88

02:10:25.660 down into mundanity and flesh and fallenness in the end but she was really really really really 0.99

02:10:30.020 lovely but it was my fault because i pushed to get married early because i felt inadequate and

02:10:35.120 insecure and like i wasn't enough and that if i was married to her that i would somehow be a better

02:10:40.400 person and more important and that put her under a an unnecessary amount of pressure and strain

02:10:46.120 and then when she was unable as a very young woman like she was 25 or 26 she was young herself there

02:10:51.220 i she couldn't fulfill those obligations because she was quite rightly one might argue certainly

02:10:56.700 from a materialist and humanistic and celebrity-oriented perspective,

02:10:59.740 pursuing her dream, which she successfully did,

02:11:02.540 of becoming the world's most famous pop star.

02:11:04.620 And when she was doing that, I was in sort of a crisis of like,

02:11:08.320 hold on a minute, I'm lonely and this isn't working.

02:11:10.940 This isn't working.

02:11:12.240 Why do I not feel, you've married a pop star.

02:11:14.400 I did it.

02:11:15.160 Come on.

02:11:16.140 Why is this not working?

02:11:19.700 Do you feel like if she weren't a celebrity, it could have worked? 0.99

02:11:23.400 Probably not, because, like, I was fated to marry my incredible wife, Laura Brand,

02:11:28.020 who is sort of who I already knew and had already married.

02:11:31.180 But, you know, I didn't learn the lesson then.

02:11:32.580 I went on to go out with Jemima Khan, who was married to the now-jailed

02:11:35.960 former leader of Pakistan, who went out with Hugh Grant, a bunch.

02:11:39.320 She was, like, a billionaire and glorious and amazing hair 0.83

02:11:43.140 and a 300-acre estate and riches.

02:11:46.440 And I thought, yes, yes, this.

02:11:48.240 Then I will be OK.

02:11:49.480 Yes, that's it.

02:11:49.960 I got some of the details wrong. 0.81

02:11:51.140 it wasn't American pop star it was British aristocrat and then of course once again she's

02:11:55.560 a human being and I in my own foolish way objectified her so I had to learn that lesson

02:12:01.020 finally I think now I have learned don't try to take things from people just leave people alone

02:12:08.360 be happy in your marriage and serve God as best you can and remember you're going to forget that 0.99

02:12:14.260 all the time like an idiot and go back to thinking life's about you but then you've now hopefully a 0.99

02:12:18.420 part of a community see jake there who's with me i have people around me now who are they're 1.00

02:12:21.980 following god in their own broken way and i just can look at them how they're doing it you know

02:12:26.220 now as i'm listening to you talk i have this fear in the back of my head russell what is it i i'm

02:12:31.580 worried about your criminal trial i don't think that you're going to get a fair shake in great

02:12:36.180 britain oh no they love to put people in jail oh no i don't want to go to jail it's my strong

02:12:41.740 preference to not go to jail so what have you go to jail what kind of jail time would you be facing

02:12:46.660 if the worst happens.

02:12:47.460 I don't know. 0.78

02:12:47.620 I mean, I think if you are convicted of being a rapist,

02:12:50.180 you go to jail for a very long time,

02:12:51.960 which if you are a rapist,

02:12:53.760 I think is only right and only fair. 0.97

02:12:56.560 Yes, but what if you're not

02:12:58.240 and you get convicted anyway?

02:12:59.720 That's not fair.

02:13:00.860 That would be what we call injustice.

02:13:03.080 Okay, but I actually have a worry

02:13:04.780 that they'll send you

02:13:06.700 because maybe what if it is part of your path?

02:13:09.160 What if you're supposed to be like ministering

02:13:10.960 to men in jail

02:13:11.640 or changing the lives of the least fortunate among us

02:13:15.140 and this is part of God's plan for you.

02:13:17.300 Well, if it's God's plan, then there's no point resisting it, is there?

02:13:20.380 If it's God's plan, then off I go, and I will serve him there.

02:13:24.080 If that's God's plan.

02:13:25.020 I don't like that idea much because I'd much rather be with my little children

02:13:27.700 and my wife.

02:13:29.000 Herbie is two and a half.

02:13:30.540 Mabel is nine.

02:13:31.880 Peggy is seven.

02:13:33.300 They're a little, yeah.

02:13:34.720 You're still in the single digits.

02:13:36.920 But surely you can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone raped someone

02:13:40.220 if they've not raped someone, or prove beyond reasonable doubt.

02:13:42.540 Will it be jury trials?

02:13:43.080 Yeah, they've not banned them yet in the UK.

02:13:45.400 They're trying, but they've not managed to yet.

02:13:47.860 That's good.

02:13:48.380 That's good.

02:13:49.120 There's 12 human beings like me that will look and see what goes on.

02:13:52.400 But it's so hard to defend yourself against something that you may or may not have done 20 years ago.

02:13:56.560 Like that's the problem that we have with, you know, like the case against Trump,

02:14:00.480 the civil rape allegation that he faced by E. Jean Carroll, which she won.

02:14:05.600 Was that in the changing room one? 0.63

02:14:09.120 Yes, in Bergdorf Goodman, Bergdorf Goodman, that he allegedly grabbed her and raped her. 0.84

02:14:13.840 It was 30, 35 years earlier.

02:14:16.880 It's like, how are you supposed to, after all that time, or what happened to Justice Kavanaugh, our Supreme Court justice who got accused of sexually molesting a woman 30 years early?

02:14:25.420 Like, you have no papers to show where you actually were that day.

02:14:28.560 You don't have a contemporaneous memory of, I absolutely was not doing that with you because I was at a Starbucks and here's my receipt.

02:14:34.760 It's very, very hard to disprove.

02:14:36.780 The legal standard, Megan, is beyond reasonable doubt that this person did it.

02:14:43.860 Beyond it would be not reasonable to doubt it.

02:14:46.160 If you're like, hmm, I doubt that happened, that's, you know,

02:14:49.720 and one might think that 25, 30 years ago in itself is reasonable doubt

02:14:56.660 unless you're able to, and like, look, the thing that I take heart from

02:15:01.100 is I go in myself and I look at and I see, 1.00

02:15:04.460 I try my best to see myself as he sees me and I see what I am oh you idiot you fool you poor 1.00

02:15:11.720 broken silly boy I don't see oh yeah then there was that time you know like this like there's 1.00

02:15:16.380 and also as I was telling you before I think like when you do 12 steps you have to interrogate 0.78

02:15:20.900 yourself you have to honestly say to someone this is what I've done this is what I've not done I've

02:15:25.460 done these things you have to tell them because then they go okay well you know you've got to

02:15:29.560 make amends and the fact is that I owe an amends to women for sure in a sort of a general way and 0.79

02:15:35.700 in a specific way and may God grant me the opportunity to make those amends and I guess 0.99

02:15:40.740 look if we've got faith in God the faith in God has got to be is if it's not faith in God that

02:15:46.200 I'm going to get what I want it's faith in God that he knows what I want and he knows what's

02:15:50.380 best for me forget what I want what I want is not even a factor anymore sadly because what I want

02:15:55.300 you know like listen I tried to get what I want what I wanted was I want to be really really

02:15:59.200 famous i want to marry pop stars be around really glamorous and beautiful women sleep with them and

02:16:02.380 then one's not enough i'll have two i'll have 20 i'll have 500 you know like that's what i thought

02:16:05.820 when i'll do drugs i'll do drugs all the time then that i what i want is not a metric but i'm 0.99

02:16:11.040 we've learned to reject this but then the problem is is that we live in an idiot giddy donkey 0.99

02:16:16.340 island you know we're all living on pinocchio donkey island of pinocchio no like uh like 1.00

02:16:21.780 everyone thinks smoking cigars and like everyone's selling these ideas to one another to a lesser or

02:16:26.780 greater degree if you are this type of person pursue this false idol if you're this type of

02:16:30.920 person pursue this false idol i really really do not want to go to jail but look at what happened

02:16:35.860 to julian assange that dude they never even give him a trial they stuck him for five years he was

02:16:40.060 in that embassy i went and saw him there and i go can i look at your bedroom he goes well come on

02:16:44.100 let me have some privacy and you were not even the most famous person who went to visit him

02:16:47.400 pamela anderson was visiting him oh yes how did that pan i mean imagine being julian assange and

02:16:53.260 and pamela anderson walks into your little i'm like wait a minute i love my prison i'll wiki

02:16:59.540 leak that i'm like when i was um and when i was uh you can leave your file anonymously i'm like

02:17:04.440 when i um when i um when i visited him yeah god he's a hero that dude and i'm friends with his

02:17:09.920 wife stella and while he was away you know he would send me messages once it all kicked off

02:17:13.700 with me he goes because that's what happened to julian lissandra first of all is they accused him

02:17:16.920 of rape oh yeah yeah i remember um and then like uh i like well i yeah i've went and visited him

02:17:23.080 that time i like that dude but he did after he's a real hero he's a genuine hero so is edward snowden

02:17:28.020 the hero means you're willing to sacrifice everything for what you believe in that's a

02:17:32.820 hard line man he then did five years in belmarsh belmarsh is no joke of a jail that's a cat a

02:17:39.040 prison that's the most severe prison i think he did a lot of it in solitary never had a trial

02:17:43.900 And really what his crime was is he told the truth about corrupt,

02:17:47.180 in this case I have to say, American power.

02:17:49.580 He exposed Hillary Clinton to an enormous degree.

02:17:52.240 So the people that were disposed to supporting that dude,

02:17:55.600 all of the Democrat left, they went, we don't care.

02:17:57.900 And all the war hawk Republican types said, we don't care either.

02:18:01.720 Ten years, the CIA were going to kill him, weren't they?

02:18:04.120 So, yeah, you're right.

02:18:06.200 I mean, justice and truth, these are ideas that presume God.

02:18:10.460 In my country, the United Kingdom, it's gone a little bit godless.

02:18:13.240 like you can get an abortion now i think even on the child's third birthday you can still like

02:18:18.760 no i've gone off it no it's annoying get it out of here and like you can be euthanized 0.92

02:18:24.180 like like if you i think you could be euthanized if you're annoying yeah like god no you're out 0.75

02:18:29.880 and like this is britain a lot of people are annoying look at the just consider the teeth 0.54

02:18:33.300 that's probably why harry and megan left not bad thank you thank you well listen i hope i'm wrong

02:18:40.380 I hope, I'm not predicting, I'm not predicting a guilty.

02:18:44.080 I don't predict it.

02:18:44.960 I'm just, I'm worried as I, I'm looking at the cross on the cover of the book and I'm

02:18:48.560 thinking, well, how does this, where does this journey go next?

02:18:51.120 And I really hope, you know, and I'm also thinking about something Erica Kirk said at

02:18:55.220 Charlie's funeral, how Charlie said, use me, you know, use me, Lord.

02:18:59.600 And she was saying, those are powerful words, you know, like, I hope you don't get used

02:19:05.200 in the way we don't want to see you get used.

02:19:07.400 But as you point out, if that's God's will, then so it must be.

02:19:10.880 And he knows better than we do.

02:19:12.240 And there must be something for you there.

02:19:14.280 There must be some work for you there.

02:19:16.020 Oh, man.

02:19:16.340 Someone said, like, why did he come when he came, the Lord?

02:19:19.800 Why did he choose that moment out of all eternity?

02:19:22.820 Like, was it because of these political conditions with the Romans?

02:19:25.100 Was it because of the Pharisee at class? 0.62

02:19:27.220 Why was it he chose then?

02:19:29.140 And someone said, I think it was Father Mike Schmitz, actually, the Catholic YouTuber.

02:19:33.140 Yeah, he's fantastic. 0.75

02:19:33.720 And he said, it was just for a thief on the next cross.

02:19:37.400 that's the only time he could have got that guy oh that's right that's probably spot on

02:19:43.460 listen god god bless you good luck to you thanks we'll be following very closely god is great and

02:19:50.880 honestly like i'm so glad we have this conversation yeah me too i really enjoyed it yeah it was very

02:19:54.640 cathartic for me i i out of for all the reasons stated i i got to the place where i didn't want

02:20:00.220 to talk to you and then i really did want to talk to you and now i have talked to you and i'm so

02:20:04.500 grateful that I had the opportunity

02:20:06.360 and that I've gotten to know you better. Thank you. Are you available

02:20:08.460 for jury service in October

02:20:10.540 and then Night King? Don't have to be a resident. Yes, we'll

02:20:12.440 swing by. Thank you. I know Tucker's going.

02:20:14.420 He and I will go. We'll make a day of it.

02:20:16.560 I think he's going to be out in eight weeks.

02:20:18.620 I'm going to go out with you two. Nobody's going to have a glass of wine with me.

02:20:20.480 Abby, come with me.

02:20:23.220 All the best to you. Good luck.

02:20:24.220 Buy the book. Russell Brand, How to Become a Christian

02:20:26.100 in Seven Days. May take 50 years

02:20:28.120 of sin and serious fuck-ups 0.99

02:20:29.740 to get started. 0.98

02:20:31.720 Alright, we will be back tomorrow with some of

02:20:34.180 our mk true crime favorites and also do you do an old we usually do something called mk ultra do

02:20:40.100 you do that ultra that's my that's your elite that should be paywall that's my secret special

02:20:44.440 yeah exactly behind the payroll offering um tonight is the california gubernatorial debate 0.96

02:20:49.520 isn't it yes tonight is the debate with uh steve hilton and katie fucking porter can't wait so

02:20:55.440 we'll have that for you tomorrow as well thanks for tuning in thanks for listening to the megan

02:21:01.160 Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 22, 2026

Russell Brand on His Upcoming Trial and Past Mistakes, Addiction, His Past Marriage to Katy Perry, and Finding God

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