The Megyn Kelly Show - Savile's Horrific Crimes, and Life After the Cancel Mob, with Dan Wootton, Joseph Massey and Dr. Robert Maloney

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.580 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.220 The sun never goes down in cool town.

00:00:19.480 I had my LASIK surgery yesterday, and for those of you who are just listening,

00:00:26.020 I've got my sunglasses on because two things.

00:00:29.020 Number one, first of all, it went great, and I'm going to have more on it for you in just a bit.

00:00:34.300 But number one, I mean like very bloodshot eyes, like very, very bloodshot eyes, like patches of blood.

00:00:42.320 It's not quite Joe Biden debate level bloodiness, but yeah, it's not attractive.

00:00:47.460 And number two, I'm not allowed to wear any eye makeup at all until Tuesday,

00:00:52.660 and there's really no reason to subject you people to that.

00:00:55.080 So I'm wearing makeup on the rest of my face and sunglasses.

00:01:00.600 And you know what? It's working for me.

00:01:02.020 I see why Comfortably Smug does this.

00:01:04.240 I think I might be glomming onto his game.

00:01:07.280 At the end of the show, we're going to be joined by Dr. Robert Maloney.

00:01:10.620 He's a very, very famous LASIK doctor, eye doctor.

00:01:13.780 He does cataracts. He does everything.

00:01:15.320 He wasn't the guy who did my procedure, but he did do all of the Kardashians.

00:01:18.740 And he's one of the guys who helped like get this thing going back in the 90s when nobody would do it.

00:01:24.780 So I'll give you the full report of how it went and he'll walk you through, you know,

00:01:29.460 how it would go for you and what the concerns might be and so on.

00:01:32.760 But so far, so great.

00:01:34.920 OK, before we get to Dr. Maloney, two of my favorite people, one I know very well,

00:01:39.740 one I'm looking forward to meeting for the first time.

00:01:42.680 In a second, we're going to be joined by Dan Wooden, our friend across the pond.

00:01:46.720 But before we get to him, well, after we get to him,

00:01:50.040 I want to tell you that we're going to be joined by poet Joseph Massey, a.k.a. Paul.

00:01:55.980 To me, remember, in my audience, I love him on Twitter and he sent me a nice note and I responded.

00:02:01.780 And, you know, I'll explain in a minute.

00:02:03.900 Anyway, before we get to poet Joseph Massey, the first poet I think I've ever interviewed.

00:02:09.620 Do you remember me ever interviewing a poet, Abbs?

00:02:11.900 I don't think so, but I'm excited.

00:02:14.900 I'm excited for you to meet him.

00:02:16.720 And you must, must, must follow him on Twitter if you want to make your life better.

00:02:21.660 But we're going to begin across the pond with multiple scandals involving the royal family.

00:02:28.640 Prince Andrew is in hot water again.

00:02:30.900 There was like two minutes he was out of hot water.

00:02:33.000 And now a new Netflix documentary about a notorious British pedophile and his association with Prince

00:02:40.500 Charles.

00:02:40.880 And there's always something going on with Harry and Meghan.

00:02:44.780 My God.

00:02:45.880 You know, the little barf emoji like that.

00:02:48.520 That's what I kind of see now whenever I read their names.

00:02:52.460 We're going to cover it all now with my pal Dan Wooden.

00:02:55.120 He's host of GB News' Dan Wooden tonight.

00:02:57.600 And he's a Daily Mail columnist.

00:02:58.980 And he's an all-around great guy.

00:03:04.840 Hey, Dan.

00:03:05.560 How's it going?

00:03:06.440 Megan, I am great.

00:03:07.580 But firstly, I have to say, wow, you pull off the sunglasses.

00:03:12.180 And boy, oh boy, I didn't even think you would be here today.

00:03:15.720 I certainly didn't think you would be on camera.

00:03:19.080 So my respect for you as Wonder Woman just grows.

00:03:22.980 Because it's pretty big surgery, isn't it, really?

00:03:26.340 It's not nice anyway, what they do.

00:03:28.860 Well, it's certainly not.

00:03:30.640 It's not flattering cosmetically in day one.

00:03:33.300 I can tell you that.

00:03:34.640 I showed my team my eyes without the sunglasses on.

00:03:37.040 They were like, we've seen enough.

00:03:38.480 We're good.

00:03:39.120 You can put those back on.

00:03:41.660 Well, I'm super impressed that you're at work.

00:03:44.100 Thank you, sir.

00:03:44.700 I actually feel 100% fine.

00:03:46.220 Physically, I'm totally normal, as normal as I'm ever going to get anyway.

00:03:51.120 OK, so let's kick it off with Prince Andrew.

00:03:55.080 So something nice happened to Prince Andrew, where the queen selected him to be with her.

00:04:00.660 And I know it was sort of controversial.

00:04:02.560 He was going to escort her to, was it a Prince Philip's memorial?

00:04:06.840 And then he screwed it up by diverting press to his misuse of his royal title.

00:04:13.620 Explain what happened.

00:04:14.580 This is absolutely fascinating because what it shows, Megan, is that the queen at 95 years old,

00:04:20.440 and certainly in the twilight years of her reign.

00:04:23.480 I mean, I'm known for saying I want the queen to go on for decades, and I hope she can.

00:04:28.520 But very sadly, Megan, this appearance at the memorial service for Prince Philip could even be one of the last times we ever see her in public.

00:04:36.820 And for the British people, and I think folk all around the world, that is hugely significant.

00:04:41.260 We don't know life without the queen at these national events.

00:04:45.620 So it was a big moment for the queen.

00:04:48.480 We knew it was going to be one of her final appearances.

00:04:51.060 She is struggling to walk, so she was brought in through a special entrance at Westminster Abbey.

00:04:56.160 The eyes of the entire country were on her, and guess who she chose to escort her to her seat?

00:05:04.320 Prince Andrew, the man who all of the courtiers in the royal family, who all of the other senior members of the royal family,

00:05:10.120 including Prince Charles and Prince William, they want him out the way.

00:05:12.960 They want Prince Andrew never to be seen again in public.

00:05:16.700 And I've been investigating this a lot over the past few weeks, Megan, because you know I do cover the royals on top of what I do at GB News,

00:05:23.480 and I write about them a lot for the Mail Online and DailyMail.com.

00:05:27.460 And this was the queen making a big public statement that she believes her son,

00:05:34.400 that even though he settled the lawsuit with Virginia Dufresne, she doesn't believe the allegations against him.

00:05:41.420 She wants the world to give him a second chance.

00:05:44.640 And this is one of the first times, Megan, in her entire reign, and this is why I find it so historically significant,

00:05:50.540 where the queen has put family ahead of Commonwealth and country.

00:05:54.840 Because you remember, of course, she denied her sister, Princess Margaret, the opportunity to marry the man who she loved because he was a divorcee.

00:06:06.100 And so I thought this was such a significant moment.

00:06:09.680 And what was particularly fascinating about it is the queen ignored Prince Charles and Prince William,

00:06:16.020 who did not want Prince Andrew put on center stage at such a significant event.

00:06:21.080 You've said it before.

00:06:22.220 They covered it in The Crown.

00:06:23.420 He's her favorite.

00:06:24.800 I mean, he's her favorite.

00:06:25.980 She's not afraid for people to know that.

00:06:28.100 So right.

00:06:28.540 She doesn't believe Virginia Dufresne.

00:06:30.080 Neither do a lot of people.

00:06:32.040 I mean, you know, we've talked about this before.

00:06:33.940 Just because Virginia Dufresne was definitely a victim of Jeffrey Epstein's does not mean she was Prince Andrew's victim of anything.

00:06:41.120 And she's made allegations against other men, including Alan Dershowitz, that I don't believe for one second.

00:06:46.640 Her stories have been inconsistent very often.

00:06:49.020 So I don't know whether Prince Andrew did what she claims or not, but he's been punished for a colossal lapse in judgment in going back to Jeffrey Epstein as a friend and staying with him in his New York mansion after the guy pleaded guilty to solicitation of prostitutions, prostitutes who were understood to be very young.

00:07:13.860 So anyway, like any royal, the dumbest royal has got to know you're not supposed to do that.

00:07:19.520 And that's really what led to his public's shaming.

00:07:23.480 I know.

00:07:23.740 And I think that's what's unforgivable, Megan, actually, in the eyes of the British public.

00:07:28.060 Although I will tell you, there is a growing group of people, especially folk like me, who are very much against cancel culture and believe that you shouldn't be found guilty before you lose your career, who say, hang on a moment.

00:07:41.780 What's Prince Andrew actually done?

00:07:46.240 And of course, he's got lots of friends behind the scenes, including Lady Victoria Harvey, who was very close to Prince Andrew in the years where he knew Virginia Dufresne, who's working hard behind the scenes.

00:07:58.080 And I had Lady Victoria on my show, actually, and she is convinced that she will be able to clear Prince Andrew.

00:08:04.560 Now, personally, Megan, I don't take that position on this because I think Prince Andrew had multiple opportunities to clear his name.

00:08:12.020 He could have done it in the civil court case, which he said he would do.

00:08:16.080 He could have done it by traveling to New York to assist the FBI in their investigations.

00:08:21.780 He refused to do that.

00:08:22.840 And of course, remember that cringeworthy, but very famous car crash interview with the BBC and Prince Andrew, probably actually the biggest royal car crash interview in history, where he said he didn't regret his friendship with Epstein.

00:08:38.500 And he said it couldn't have been him that Virginia Dufresne was describing because he doesn't sweat.

00:08:44.160 And she said he was sweaty.

00:08:45.900 I mean, he was ridiculous about it.

00:08:48.080 So he behaved like a buffoon, but I, you know, I might, I might be leaning more in your friend's camp because I just think like the, the proof isn't there.

00:08:57.860 I want due process.

00:08:58.900 I want due process for guys, even if they're royals accused, there's no question he behaved badly and he made stupid decisions.

00:09:05.560 But that's a world away from you knowingly sex trafficked a 17 year old for, you know, self-pleasure.

00:09:13.240 My God, that's a world away from that.

00:09:15.900 So I may, I guess I'm with the queen.

00:09:17.800 I don't, I'm not sure I believe these allegations against him.

00:09:21.740 And to try and explain the situation from Prince Andrew's side, even though I will repeat, I think he's acted appallingly at certain points throughout this whole scandal.

00:09:31.240 But from his point of view, he was almost pushed into a corner in terms of having to settle with Dufresne because all of the drumbeat from people behind the scenes, the men in gray suits, as they've described at Buckingham Palace, was that you cannot overshadow your mom's platinum jubilee by pressing ahead with this civil court case.

00:09:52.640 So the idea was he had to settle to save the queen, all of this embarrassment in what is a very big year for her.

00:09:59.580 Okay.

00:10:00.060 But then, because he is sort of the buffoon of the family, he's a little Fredo-ish.

00:10:05.840 Um, he, he has his moment with the queen.

00:10:09.440 She's trying to rehabilitate him.

00:10:11.100 That's nice that, you know, a mother's love knows no bounds.

00:10:14.400 And then there's some other moment, I don't know what, I don't know what he was posting for on, on his ex-wife's Instagram, Fergie's Instagram.

00:10:23.060 He takes over the, the pen and decides to post all about his service in the military to commemorate this day.

00:10:30.460 And, uh, what does he do?

00:10:32.240 Cause he screwed it up again and he gained headlines for the wrong reasons.

00:10:36.640 Yeah.

00:10:37.140 It's the 40th anniversary of the Falklands war, which is of course a major event in British history.

00:10:43.520 No one expected Margaret Thatcher's invasion, uh, sorry, Margaret Thatcher's defense of the Falklands after the Argentinian invasion to be successful.

00:10:52.440 And it was, and that was the time that Prince Andrew was a national hero because he fought in the Falklands.

00:10:58.840 And as you say, Fergie, who, let's be honest, has gotten to so many scrapes over the years and certainly is not the person that you would want to turn to, Megan, if you were seeking a crisis PR advice.

00:11:13.080 But really she's the only person who has publicly stood by Andrew and to all intents and purposes, Megan, they are in a relationship.

00:11:20.380 I'm not saying it's a sexual relationship, but they live together.

00:11:24.600 They are each other's rock.

00:11:26.360 And a lot of people believe that at some point they will actually, uh, formally remarry.

00:11:31.960 And she posted these words, uh, from Prince Andrew reflecting on his service in the Falklands.

00:11:37.360 And actually, again, without wanting to defend Prince Andrew, I found the words quite powerful.

00:11:42.940 He was talking about the Falklands in the context of the conflict in Ukraine at the moment and talking about how we should avoid war at all costs.

00:11:52.160 Slight problem though.

00:11:53.100 He signed off the message, his Royal Highness, the Duke of York.

00:11:57.580 He used the HRH title.

00:12:00.040 And again, if you're into the British Royal family, that's a big no-no for Prince Andrew because he's not meant to be a working royal.

00:12:07.640 So it summed up what I've been saying for a good couple of years, Megan.

00:12:11.520 Prince Andrew doesn't believe he's going to retire in disgrace from the public spotlight.

00:12:16.180 He's going to spend the rest of his life, however long he has left on earth, trying to cleanse his reputation.

00:12:22.220 And that poses a really big issue for Prince Charles and Prince William, who are trying to modernize the Royal family and having Epstein's BFF hanging around in Prince Andrew doesn't make that easy for them.

00:12:35.040 And yet, uh, Andrew gets a, gets a card to use against Prince Charles, just as if, you know, from the heavens.

00:12:43.400 Netflix drops this documentary about this apparently very, very famous British guy.

00:12:49.780 He's dead now.

00:12:51.400 Um, and he was accused of pedophilia during the course of his life, I guess, or some sort of child, uh, molestation or inappropriate behavior with kids.

00:12:59.140 But now it's coming out.

00:13:00.460 He was 84 when he died.

00:13:01.340 Now it's coming out.

00:13:02.460 Um, it's much, much worse than we knew.

00:13:04.700 And he was a very close confidant and friend of Charles.

00:13:09.180 I should say, no one's suggesting that Charles knew that this guy was hurting children during the course of their friendship.

00:13:17.460 But who is this guy?

00:13:18.980 And how did he get so close to so many Royals and other muckety mucks in, in Great Britain over the years?

00:13:25.100 So Jimmy Savile, Megan, is one of the most famous figures in the UK.

00:13:30.580 While he was alive, he was the most popular TV presenter in Britain.

00:13:35.280 He was attracting 20 million viewers for his shows on the BBC.

00:13:39.540 And he was friends with Charles and Diana.

00:13:42.220 He was friends with Margaret Thatcher.

00:13:44.900 Problem is, Megan, he was also Britain's most notorious pedophile and necrophiliac.

00:13:51.020 And it was known over the course of his life that he abused young girls.

00:13:58.680 And what ended up happening was, I think, one of the most shameful establishment cover-ups in British history.

00:14:07.160 The BBC, the organization that is meant to be the public broadcaster of this country, covered up Savile's behavior.

00:14:15.960 They knew and they covered it up.

00:14:18.040 And even after his death, Megan, when one of the news programs at the BBC Newsnight wanted to broadcast, to tell all investigation about Savile's pedophilia, they were banned from doing so by BBC management.

00:14:33.940 Now, the issue is, the first person who offered a full and wholesome tribute to Jimmy Savile following his death was Prince Charles.

00:14:42.740 And this Netflix documentary couldn't come at a worse time for Charles and the entire British royal family, which has been rocked by a series of scandals, of course.

00:14:52.980 And clearly there is an argument for Prince Andrew to make, hang on a moment, big bro.

00:15:00.160 Yes, I was pals with Epstein, but you were close pals with Jimmy Savile, who was widely known behind the scenes to be a dodgy pedo.

00:15:12.980 And the notes between Savile and Prince Charles, which have been included as part of this Netflix documentary, show just how close their relationship was, Megan.

00:15:26.100 Savile was actually offering lots of communications and PR advice to the royal family, including advice that was shown to Prince Philip and the Queen.

00:15:35.120 He also offered, sorry, Prince Charles also asked him to provide PR advice to Fergie, the Duchess of York, who was involved in all of her own scandals at the time.

00:15:46.000 So, look, I'm not saying for a single second that Prince Charles was aware of Jimmy Savile's behaviour.

00:15:52.380 And remember, lots of other people were sucked in, including Margaret Thatcher, the very well-respected first British female prime minister.

00:16:01.240 So, maybe we should give Prince Charles a pass on exactly what he knew about Savile, but you can understand why it's particularly uncomfortable, given what's just gone on with Prince Andrew.

00:16:13.280 Well, was there, you say that a lot of people knew he was a dodgy pedo.

00:16:20.140 When did they know, right?

00:16:21.440 So, that's relevant.

00:16:22.080 Did Charles, in the way that Andrew did with Epstein, continue the friendship after it was known this guy was likely hurting kids?

00:16:32.240 Well, look, the BBC knew as early as 1973, Megan, that Jimmy Savile took underage girls back to his apartment following filming of Top of the Pops, which was a really big music chart show in the UK.

00:16:49.040 Quite an iconic show where all of the big pop acts would perform every week.

00:16:52.340 Now, Savile's argument at the time was that, oh, yeah, I'm taking the young girls back to my apartment, but nothing sexual is going on.

00:17:02.000 And obviously, the culture was incredibly different back then.

00:17:06.500 And that argument was accepted and BBC bosses turned a blind eye.

00:17:09.780 Of course, what we don't know is how aware Prince Charles was.

00:17:13.660 But look, there were various newspaper reports throughout Savile's life about some of his dodgy practices.

00:17:19.960 But again, the British libel system makes it incredibly difficult for British newspapers to publish those sorts of allegations without hard and fast proof.

00:17:28.700 And Savile would boast while he was alive that, oh, well, every time the newspapers publish one of these exposés, it's great because I just get thousands more pounds when I take them to court.

00:17:39.900 So at the very least, it's hard to believe that Prince Charles hadn't heard that he was a dodgy character.

00:17:46.940 The full extent of his reign of terror and his shocking abuse of children didn't fully emerge publicly, though, until well after his death.

00:17:58.520 Here's just a bit from the Netflix trailer.

00:18:00.660 This is Soundbite 2 on Jimmy Savile.

00:18:04.640 He knew everybody.

00:18:05.640 I thank you for everything you do, every good course.

00:18:09.900 How on earth do you raise ten million pounds in three years?

00:18:16.440 With Jim, you accept you think it's normal, but it was abnormal.

00:18:24.160 That is supposed to be me.

00:18:26.640 What did I ever do to you that you would draw that picture of me?

00:18:32.480 He's very intuitive.

00:18:34.200 He did a terrific job to me.

00:18:35.660 No, that's all front. That's all nice.

00:18:37.040 He was making the screen in front of him.

00:18:39.140 It's like you couldn't see through it.

00:18:41.340 He knew fame and power gave him every door.

00:18:46.240 I am a voluntary helper.

00:18:48.040 Sometimes when nobody's looking, I help the losses.

00:18:51.140 It turns out everywhere he'd been, there'd been abuse.

00:18:55.500 Oh, my gosh.

00:18:57.880 And you mentioned just in passing, necrophilia?

00:19:02.200 Yeah.

00:19:03.360 Yeah.

00:19:03.900 And it was well known that he would maintain these relationships, Megan, with hospitals and children's hospitals.

00:19:13.120 So that he had access to dead bodies.

00:19:18.020 So, you know, this, I mean, this is the worst story of celebrity abuse, I think, that exists.

00:19:26.820 And I can completely understand why Netflix has decided this is a big story in Britain,

00:19:34.280 but no one outside of the UK has even heard of this bloke.

00:19:38.880 Plus, there's a royal connection.

00:19:40.640 So let's turn it into a big series.

00:19:43.060 But at the same time, Megan, there are questions being asked about Netflix as well.

00:19:49.220 And I wrote a column for the Daily Mail about this yesterday because very interesting, isn't it?

00:19:56.160 It's intriguing, you might say, that from the moment that Netflix signed their big multi-million dollar deal with Prince Harry and Megan,

00:20:04.900 there's been a slew of negative programs about the royal family.

00:20:10.300 And they seem to be targeting Harry and Megan's relatives.

00:20:14.520 Oh, that's so interesting.

00:20:16.440 And soon to be followed by a Spotify podcast audio series along the same lines, I'm sure,

00:20:23.760 since that's the other entity with whom they have a deal.

00:20:26.160 OK, now, wait, before we I'm going to take a break in a second, but I do want to ask you on the subject of Harry.

00:20:32.980 So we started it off by talking about Prince Philip's memorial service.

00:20:37.600 That was Prince Harry's grandfather, the queen's husband.

00:20:41.020 That's his grandpa.

00:20:42.140 And he refused to go home to England to say goodbye.

00:20:47.740 He didn't show up.

00:20:49.280 And to me, it's like, once again, his reason is incredibly flimsy, pathetic and all about himself.

00:20:59.140 Will you tell us what he said?

00:21:01.200 I mean, Megan, I just have to be honest now.

00:21:03.640 Prince Harry is a complete and utter scumbag.

00:21:06.280 He has spent years saying how much he cares for the queen and how much respect he has for the queen.

00:21:12.760 This might have been his last opportunity to see the queen.

00:21:18.860 This memorial service meant so much to the queen, Megan, because you might remember those horrifying pictures over the course of COVID lockdowns in the UK,

00:21:28.480 when the queen sat alone at Prince Philip's funeral without a soul nearby her because of the ridiculous and actually quite inhumane government restrictions when it came to funerals.

00:21:42.040 So this was the opportunity for the queen to give Prince Philip the funeral that he had wanted.

00:21:47.900 Her entire family was there.

00:21:50.960 There were only two people missing, Harry and Megan.

00:21:54.120 And the reason they weren't there, Megan, is because of a pathetic and petulant row with the British government over who gives Prince Harry security when he comes back to the UK.

00:22:09.100 Because he wants, Megan, even though he's no longer a working royal and he's in Hollywood making tens of millions of dollars,

00:22:14.500 he wants to still be treated as if he's a working royal.

00:22:18.120 And he wants the British government to provide security for him.

00:22:21.820 Quite rightly, in my opinion, the British government is saying, you and our private citizen, that is the decision that you made.

00:22:28.940 So you have to provide and pay for your own security because the metropolitan police are not security guards for hire.

00:22:36.340 And if we make that arrangement for you, we're soon going to have Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg or whatever celebrity chooses to arrive in the country asking for privately paid for metropolitan police security.

00:22:53.720 But for me, it actually doesn't matter what the reason is.

00:22:57.160 But he let down the queen.

00:22:59.820 And I think if he doesn't get to see her again, we know she is 95.

00:23:05.180 She is Aileen.

00:23:07.020 He should he should never forgive himself for a decision like that.

00:23:10.180 I think it just shows how destroyed his relationship is now with the royal family.

00:23:16.800 Of course, Megan plays a big part in that, in my opinion.

00:23:19.700 And do you think, Dan, with the British people, too?

00:23:22.180 I mean, I feel like the British people, they must have been horrified by that decision.

00:23:25.940 He's got tens of millions of dollars pouring into him from the two companies we just mentioned.

00:23:31.300 And he's not wanting for funds to begin with, thanks to Prince Charles and the queen.

00:23:36.400 So he can't hire a bodyguard to go over them.

00:23:39.600 Like, what does George Clooney do?

00:23:40.940 He doesn't get the royal guard.

00:23:42.900 He gets a private bodyguard to walk around and make sure he stays safe.

00:23:46.500 And that's what Prince Harry could have done.

00:23:49.040 Or, well, I'll play the soundbite.

00:23:51.100 This is Prince Philip's former royal personal protection officer.

00:23:55.680 You tell me.

00:23:56.320 But it sounds like being, I mean, shockingly candid for somebody in that role on his thoughts about Harry's decision.

00:24:02.900 Listen to Richard Griffin.

00:24:05.560 Weren't people talking about that?

00:24:07.660 Yes, they were.

00:24:08.920 What were they saying?

00:24:11.020 Certainly wrong were either.

00:24:12.260 They thought you should have been here.

00:24:13.340 Yeah, and all this nonsense about he couldn't get protection.

00:24:18.280 You know, as far as I'm concerned, that was a pathetic excuse.

00:24:21.480 He should have been here to honour his grandfather.

00:24:23.540 There is certainly a great deal of security here today, isn't there?

00:24:26.800 So there wouldn't have been any question about that.

00:24:29.820 At the end of the day, if he was that worried about security, he could have stuck with his brother and his father,

00:24:35.640 who've got wonderful security, and he'd be more than safe.

00:24:40.160 Fair point.

00:24:40.800 Oh, absolutely.

00:24:42.680 And Megan, do you actually know what this is about?

00:24:45.040 It's about the fact that when he came over in July for the unveiling of the statue of Princess Diana,

00:24:51.320 where he had a very awkward meeting with his brother, Prince William, in public,

00:24:55.840 because the relationship between them is, for the moment at least, more than a little icy.

00:25:03.060 Let's just say, verging on toxic.

00:25:05.760 Basically, some photographers followed him in a car when he left the service.

00:25:11.580 There was no security scare.

00:25:14.380 There was no issue with the photographers following him.

00:25:17.660 And by the way, Megan, if he drove through Hollywood, he would be trailed by photographers too.

00:25:23.580 That is part of his life.

00:25:25.300 And of course, since the death of his mother, there is so much regulation in Britain about where photographers can go,

00:25:33.880 about how they can behave.

00:25:35.640 So, in my view, Prince Harry has been looking for a reason to avoid the UK,

00:25:41.600 looking for a reason to create drama with the British government.

00:25:45.840 But I just think it makes his decision to name his daughter after Queen Elizabeth II,

00:25:53.560 using her nickname, Lilibet, feel particularly hollow,

00:25:58.200 given that the Queen hasn't met this young girl.

00:26:02.040 She hasn't even met her namesake.

00:26:04.560 Wow. I hadn't considered that.

00:26:07.060 So, what about the British people?

00:26:09.160 How are they feeling, do you think, about these two?

00:26:13.140 Oh, they've lost patience completely.

00:26:15.120 Their popularity is at an all-time low.

00:26:18.620 It's particularly shocking for Prince Harry,

00:26:21.720 who at one point was more popular in public opinion surveys, Megan,

00:26:26.180 than the Queen or Prince William or Kate.

00:26:29.680 He was the most popular member of the royal family.

00:26:34.560 And now, aside from Fergie and Prince Andrew and Prince Andrew's daughters,

00:26:41.260 he's one of the least popular.

00:26:43.940 Who's your favourite?

00:26:45.000 Are you allowed to say?

00:26:45.980 I know you cover them.

00:26:46.820 Who's your favourite?

00:26:47.420 Of course the Queen.

00:26:48.600 Of course the Queen.

00:26:50.120 And I think she has acted impeccably throughout her entire reign.

00:26:54.520 And at the moment, Megan, it actually makes for people like me.

00:26:58.900 And yes, we do cover her and we have to cover the royal family,

00:27:02.020 I believe, critically through a critical lens and treat them as public officials.

00:27:07.320 But when you see the Queen struggling to stand up, struggling to walk,

00:27:14.020 but being so stoic because she knows that she has to be seen to look regal.

00:27:20.960 She doesn't want to be in a wheelchair.

00:27:22.860 She doesn't want the public to see her fade away in the same way that they saw her mother,

00:27:28.180 the Queen mother, and her sister, Princess Margaret, fade away in public.

00:27:31.780 It just gives you goosebumps.

00:27:33.620 And as she stood in that memorial service at Westminster Abbey for Prince Philip

00:27:38.340 and the congregation sang God Save the Queen,

00:27:43.480 there was a particularly emotional moment because I think a lot of people in the room

00:27:49.340 felt this might be one of the last times we get to do this for the Queen.

00:27:54.320 And she stood and there were no issues.

00:27:57.000 And I just think it says a lot about the stoicism of the generation that we're so tragically losing,

00:28:04.880 who lived through World War II, who know what it's like to be in a house as bombs rain down on London,

00:28:14.560 Hitler's bombs.

00:28:15.960 And that's my grandparents' generation.

00:28:18.860 And for me, I've lost all of my grandparents.

00:28:21.240 And the Queen is almost like that last remaining connection to those wonderful people.

00:28:27.960 They are the greatest generation.

00:28:30.040 And even though I think we know it's coming because the Queen's health is deteriorating,

00:28:37.280 Britain certainly isn't ready for life without her.

00:28:40.320 And a new poll this week, Megan,

00:28:42.220 showed that less than half the British people are comfortable with the idea of Prince Charles becoming king.

00:28:49.660 So there are choppy waters ahead for the royal family.

00:28:52.920 That is for sure.

00:28:54.760 You know, the thing is, you look at her and you think selflessness.

00:28:57.980 That's what I think when I look at her.

00:28:59.160 She just, her whole life and all the bios about her, documentaries about her show that,

00:29:04.880 that she puts service above herself and others for years.

00:29:09.680 And boy, it's tough to find that.

00:29:12.300 I mean, I think Prince William's living up to that more and more.

00:29:15.360 Princess Kate, I think more and more people over here are falling in love with them.

00:29:19.300 Because you don't hear about too much drama.

00:29:21.680 They're not constantly trying to make the news cycle about themselves,

00:29:24.580 unlike his little brother and his American wife.

00:29:27.840 And they're the opposite.

00:29:29.560 Harry and Megan are the opposite.

00:29:31.000 While they want, they want to be seen the same as these selfless,

00:29:35.340 I don't want press.

00:29:36.580 I don't, I don't need it.

00:29:37.720 This is perfect.

00:29:38.240 My sunglasses right now are perfect for this.

00:29:40.000 No cameras, no, no lights, no, no press.

00:29:43.620 Of course, they're like, but I'll be at the Beverly Hills Hilton at 2 p.m. on Sunday

00:29:48.600 if you want to get me in my gray limo, right?

00:29:50.460 Like that's what, that's who they are.

00:29:53.020 And people know it.

00:29:54.580 They may not know all the ins and outs of how they manipulate,

00:29:57.220 but you just know it on a gut level.

00:29:58.860 Because if you are a manipulator, it comes through.

00:30:01.960 Their latest manipulation is where I'm going to pick it up with Dan

00:30:05.180 right after this quick break.

00:30:07.380 More with Dan Wooten in one second.

00:30:15.600 So Dan, the, this pair has decided to unleash their, their messaging.

00:30:21.620 Uh, they're finally going to get going on their Spotify podcast,

00:30:24.420 but I guess it's just Megan as it turns out.

00:30:26.660 Uh, she couldn't get Harry.

00:30:28.000 So it's just going to be her.

00:30:29.720 What a shock.

00:30:30.320 She just wants it to be all of her airtime.

00:30:32.360 Although I can relate.

00:30:33.680 Um, and she has decided that she wants to trademark a word that is 476 years old

00:30:42.460 as hers, uh, in the broadcast of her new podcast,

00:30:46.720 which I guess is going to hit this summer.

00:30:48.720 The word is archetype archetype.

00:30:51.580 It's something you would use.

00:30:53.280 For example, you might say, um, you know, in any given,

00:30:57.020 I don't know, um, crime drama, you could have the villain, the hero, the consoler.

00:31:06.800 Those are archetypes that we are sort of familiar with.

00:31:09.580 She wants to use it in the context of women, Dan, because she's a champion for female empowerment.

00:31:15.180 And the statement is that she wants to address the labels and stereotypes

00:31:19.280 that try to hold women back.

00:31:22.700 And then the articles add in our patriarchal society.

00:31:26.880 So she's going to fight the patriarchy after giving up her entire career,

00:31:31.820 her religion, her country, and her family for a guy.

00:31:36.380 You might say, Megan, this is an archetypal Megan Markle move.

00:31:42.920 Because it's just crass, isn't it?

00:31:45.120 It's crass commercialization that makes no sense.

00:31:50.740 It's like you're making your tens of millions of dollars from Spotify.

00:31:54.780 You don't have to try and own a word.

00:31:58.080 It reminds me, Megan, when Victoria Beckham, you know, the Spice Girl,

00:32:02.600 who's nicknamed Posh Spice, tried to trademark the word posh.

00:32:07.540 And she was roundly condemned for it because it's ridiculous.

00:32:10.740 I can use the word archetype in whatever context I want to, I'm afraid, Megan.

00:32:15.720 But it just shows you how bad their advice is and how they're surrounded by this sort of ridiculous Hollywood types

00:32:23.420 who think like celebrities.

00:32:26.360 And I feel like Megan's rebrand is just to say, I'm a victim.

00:32:31.360 And she's about as far from a victim as you could possibly get.

00:32:35.980 But I think it's bad because to me, all right, I have a saying and I say to my kids all the time,

00:32:42.580 it's about the people who brag about how much money they have or how smart they are or whatever it is.

00:32:48.380 The seven foot center doesn't tell you how tall he is.

00:32:51.620 There's a reason for that.

00:32:52.620 He doesn't have to.

00:32:53.960 And they're trying to use like the fancy word to make her sound smart.

00:32:58.480 Like he knows something.

00:32:59.720 The regular people here in America, what loves her?

00:33:01.920 We like Arch type Archie is an Archie type.

00:33:04.520 What is it?

00:33:04.980 And even I was like, what is that?

00:33:06.660 Why don't you ever use that word?

00:33:07.880 I had to look it back up just to remind myself.

00:33:09.620 What is she trying to say?

00:33:10.480 That's a bad sign.

00:33:11.700 You want it to be relatable to as many people as possible, unless your name is Megan Markle,

00:33:16.040 where you've spent your whole life trying to be less relatable to the common man and woman.

00:33:20.420 You want them to feel that you are above them, smarter than they are, richer than they are.

00:33:26.100 And now at the same time, more of a victim than they are.

00:33:29.300 And I wonder, Dan, whether there's any appetite from people here or in Great Britain to listen

00:33:36.000 to this woman talk about how hard it is to be female.

00:33:42.180 Absolutely not.

00:33:44.120 And what I found so hilarious, Megan, was when the other Megan, the Megan we don't like,

00:33:51.420 who spells her name funny, unlike you, said, oh, goodness me.

00:33:56.920 Maybe I'm going to have to leave Spotify unless they sack Joe Rogan.

00:34:02.460 And obviously, Spotify said, oh, hang on a moment.

00:34:07.440 Take care.

00:34:08.340 Joe Rogan ain't going anywhere.

00:34:10.100 And so Megan very quickly said, oh, well, in that case, OK, I'm OK with it.

00:34:15.400 Because look, they need the moolah.

00:34:18.280 They need the big bucks.

00:34:19.580 This is all about the greenback.

00:34:21.180 So they can be as pious and virtue signaling as they want.

00:34:25.820 But actually, when push comes to shove, Megan will share a platform with Joe Rogan because

00:34:33.040 she needs the money.

00:34:36.420 She would share a platform with anyone as long as the check cleared.

00:34:41.420 Who is she kidding?

00:34:42.960 Yeah, the statement from their spokesperson basically said, well, the release of this podcast

00:34:47.460 was originally delayed due to concerns over Spotify's role in spreading misinformation,

00:34:53.800 in particular with respect to covid.

00:34:56.420 I challenge I want I'd love to talk to her name, three name, three facts, just any.

00:35:01.620 You know, it doesn't even have to be misinformation.

00:35:03.160 Tell me three facts about covid at all.

00:35:05.000 Let's see if you get them right.

00:35:06.220 You know what?

00:35:06.620 I'll give it to you multiple choice.

00:35:07.700 You just you click the one you think is right.

00:35:09.720 Miss backup, Howie Mandel.

00:35:12.260 I opened the suitcase girl spokesmodel.

00:35:14.340 She doesn't know anything about anything.

00:35:15.640 She literally knows nothing about it.

00:35:17.940 Megan, how dare Megan accuse Joe Rogan of misinformation?

00:35:24.520 She is the queen of misinformation.

00:35:27.360 You remember the Oprah interview.

00:35:29.360 She even lied about when she got married.

00:35:32.700 For God's sake, the interview was literally two hours of misinformation.

00:35:38.420 So to me, your misogyny is showing irony is Megan lambasting anyone about misinformation.

00:35:46.740 It's just it's laughable now.

00:35:49.280 It's actually laughable.

00:35:50.400 And we see through it.

00:35:51.980 It's so true.

00:35:53.260 I've had just about enough of these two.

00:35:55.800 And by the way, just one other small point.

00:35:57.580 They on their website, you know, they're partnering with women's groups again to lift up women,

00:36:02.740 women, the very women who choose not to leave their country and their religion and their

00:36:05.900 husband and everything that they hold dear abandon their entire family so that they can

00:36:09.240 marry a rich guy in Britain, which was her goal from the beginning, as we've discussed

00:36:12.040 in other episodes.

00:36:13.380 OK, she wants to lecture those women about how to empower themselves.

00:36:16.240 So we do not need her advice.

00:36:18.160 But on her website last week, our friends at the National Women's Law Center released

00:36:24.540 a new report providing a timely snapshot of the continuing multifaceted impact of the

00:36:29.040 COVID-19 pandemic on women and mothers.

00:36:31.360 And then in particular, women and mothers who are black and brown and so on, blah, blah,

00:36:34.680 blah.

00:36:35.800 She doesn't have friends at the National Women's Law Center.

00:36:38.220 She doesn't have friends.

00:36:39.220 She doesn't.

00:36:39.780 Beyonce is not her friend.

00:36:41.280 George Clooney is not her friend.

00:36:43.000 Oprah is not her friend.

00:36:44.040 And Gail's not her friend.

00:36:45.420 All of these people showed up at the royal wedding and go on her stupid website and do

00:36:49.120 her little PSAs for the only reason she got married to Harry, because it's access to the

00:36:53.660 royal family and it makes them feel somehow better, smarter, more fabulous.

00:36:59.240 That's all that's going on there.

00:37:00.940 And these people like the use of my friend.

00:37:03.720 Bull, you know, to me, it's so pathetic that like she did abandon all of her friends

00:37:07.320 and all of her family for these people.

00:37:09.500 She doesn't know at all.

00:37:10.420 And she's still referring to them as like her friends.

00:37:13.520 She doesn't know.

00:37:14.240 She doesn't know these people and they don't know her.

00:37:17.100 She wasn't friends with Oprah and Gayle King, who wanted nothing to do with her when she

00:37:23.500 was a D-list actress on Suits.

00:37:25.480 They became interested when she got it on with Prince Harry.

00:37:29.320 And look, I've actually got to know Meghan's family really well over the past few years.

00:37:34.720 And her father, Thomas, and her sister, Samantha, to me, are good, ordinary Americans.

00:37:43.260 I'm not saying they haven't made a few mistakes, Meghan.

00:37:46.820 But anyone who is thrust into that sort of worldwide spotlight are going to make a few mistakes.

00:37:53.060 But I'm a good judge of character.

00:37:54.620 And they are good, honest people.

00:37:56.520 And I just cannot believe that Meghan won't drive down that highway to Mexico a couple

00:38:03.220 of hours and at the very least just allow her dad to meet his grandson and granddaughter.

00:38:11.140 I just say shame on you, Meghan.

00:38:12.920 Yep.

00:38:13.220 No relationship with the grandparents on either side, even though one of them is the Queen of

00:38:18.360 England.

00:38:18.800 OK, so that tells you something.

00:38:20.980 All right.

00:38:21.500 Moving on.

00:38:22.460 On your nightly show, you cover all sorts of news in the UK.

00:38:25.380 It's fascinating.

00:38:25.880 I watch it on YouTube all the time just to keep up on what's happening across the pond

00:38:29.540 with my pals, my actual pals like you, not the fake pals like she has.

00:38:33.880 And one of the things you've been covering is you guys are going through the same weird

00:38:38.360 transgender revolution that we are, where it's crossed over to the point of absurdity.

00:38:43.460 But your leader, old Bojo, has handled this a little different than, I'm sorry,

00:38:49.540 all I can think is what Ben Shapiro says.

00:38:51.000 He calls him president of houseplant.

00:38:52.580 It's not nice.

00:38:53.320 But I mean, he just, you know, he's not we're not sure he's still alive.

00:38:56.260 That's the problem with our president.

00:38:58.020 So as I understand it, Boris Johnson has come out and said because there was a debate about

00:39:03.080 whether the that they should ban, quote, conversion therapy for young gay boys and girls and young

00:39:14.160 trans boys and girls.

00:39:15.360 And they came out and said, definitely conversion therapy is totally inappropriate for young

00:39:20.240 gay people.

00:39:20.700 That's absurd.

00:39:21.340 We've known that for decades.

00:39:22.840 But young trans kids, this has been looking more and more like a social contagion.

00:39:28.340 And we're not prepared to do that.

00:39:29.920 And Boris Johnson came out and said, I I've got my concerns about all of this, too.

00:39:35.960 Here he is talking about transgender issues.

00:39:37.760 This is soundbite for I don't think that it's it's reasonable for kids to be deemed so-called

00:39:48.100 Gillick competent to take decisions about their their gender or irreversible treatments that

00:39:55.540 they may they may have.

00:39:57.840 I just don't I think there should be parental involvement at the very least.

00:40:01.320 That's the first thing.

00:40:02.320 Second thing, I don't think that biological males should be competing in female sporting

00:40:08.340 events.

00:40:09.160 And maybe that's a controversial thing, but it just it just seems to me to be sensible.

00:40:14.320 And I also happen to think that women should have spaces which are whether it's in in in

00:40:24.640 hospitals or prisons or change rooms or wherever, which are dedicated to to to women.

00:40:29.780 Yeah, revolutionary.

00:40:33.060 So how does that go over with the British public?

00:40:35.080 Where do they stand on these issues?

00:40:36.840 Well, incredibly well, and obviously very few people, Megan, would listen to what Boris Johnson

00:40:41.400 just said and think it's at all anything other than complete common sense.

00:40:46.580 But to contextualize what's been going on here in the UK the past couple of weeks is that

00:40:51.920 the leader of the opposition, Keir Starmer, the bloke who wants to be prime minister and

00:40:57.180 at the moment, Megan, is actually leading Boris Johnson in the polls, has been asked numerous

00:41:02.440 times, what is a woman and can a woman have a penis?

00:41:07.480 And he has stuttered and he has been completely pathetic and unable to answer the question.

00:41:15.000 Even Boris Johnson's rival for the main job within his own party, his chancellor, Rishi Sunak,

00:41:21.420 was asked to define what a woman is, and he refused to answer the question.

00:41:27.420 So this is a big win for Boris Johnson electorally because a new group has just been launched and

00:41:33.080 they've been all over the media, including the front page of the Daily Mail, which is the

00:41:37.000 most read newspaper in the UK.

00:41:39.360 And it's called, you won't get my ex unless you respect my sex, because we have the local

00:41:46.780 elections coming up here in May.

00:41:48.720 It sort of plays a similar role as the US midterms.

00:41:52.980 And this group described themselves as the most important feminist movement since the

00:41:59.180 suffragettes.

00:42:00.120 And it's actually very hard to argue against that, Megan, given we're currently living in

00:42:04.280 the world here in the UK, where British cycling want a competitor called Emily Bridges to be

00:42:12.040 able to compete against biological female cyclists.

00:42:16.940 When Megan, Emily Bridges was competing as a man just a few weeks ago.

00:42:22.220 So Boris Johnson has tapped into the anger and the frustration going on here about trying

00:42:30.580 to erase women from society.

00:42:32.940 Thank God, because so few are willing to do it, are actually willing to stand up for

00:42:38.100 for women and allow just the complete takeover of traditionally women's sports, locker rooms,

00:42:45.180 whatever areas you were not to be left sitting on the sidelines on this one, Dan.

00:42:51.040 You sent out one of your fearless producers onto the streets of Great Britain to figure out

00:42:54.700 what's the what's the pulse of the populace on this important issue about the penis.

00:42:59.880 And we have a clip of that.

00:43:02.940 A quick question that Sir Keir Starmer has struggled with in recent days.

00:43:07.320 Can women have penises?

00:43:09.900 You'll have to ask the Prime Minister for what does he think, do you know?

00:43:13.800 Don't know.

00:43:14.600 I'm taking into consideration how women feel about it and women's rights.

00:43:19.420 Surely it's a simple answer that women can't have penises.

00:43:23.780 He's asking if women can have penises.

00:43:26.180 Is there something you'd like to elaborate on?

00:43:30.560 I don't know.

00:43:31.360 You don't know?

00:43:32.240 No, the cat can.

00:43:33.140 Can women have penises?

00:43:35.060 I'm not going yet.

00:43:36.080 I'm just asking people a simple question whether women can have penises.

00:43:40.600 I'm not prepared to answer that because I don't know enough about the subject.

00:43:43.680 But thanks very much for asking.

00:43:44.600 You don't know enough about men or women's simple biology?

00:43:47.820 Can women have penises?

00:43:49.100 Can women have penises?

00:43:50.540 Sir, Ben from GB News, can women have penises?

00:43:54.100 He doesn't know enough about the subject room.

00:43:56.140 I mean, never sleep with him, Dan.

00:43:57.780 Don't let me sleep with that random man.

00:43:59.140 They are some of our political leaders.

00:44:02.640 You know, they are cabinet ministers.

00:44:04.140 They are party leaders.

00:44:06.000 And it is gutless.

00:44:07.360 But I think folk like that will be punished at the polls because it's not just women who've had enough, Megan.

00:44:14.240 I mean, I speak as a bloke.

00:44:15.980 I'm a massive fan of women's sport.

00:44:19.300 And I just fundamentally believe anyone biologically born a man cannot compete in women's sport.

00:44:26.660 I don't buy this thing that there's any gray area or that hormone levels make a difference.

00:44:32.400 We just have to have hard and fast rules on this one.

00:44:35.900 And so it's been very pleasing for me to see Boris Johnson be morally courageous enough to do this.

00:44:41.100 Because interestingly, a little bit of background to this, Megan.

00:44:43.740 His wife, Carrie Johnson, who is certainly, let's just say she's on the woke side of things.

00:44:50.100 And she's been a bit of a negative influence in terms of Boris Johnson's policy.

00:44:54.640 And she is actually in cahoots with one of the LGBT, that's what we're meant to say now, right?

00:45:02.080 I mean, I just say gay organization Stonewall, which very much backs the trans lobby on these issues and thinks that trans competitors should be able to compete in women's sport.

00:45:14.040 So Boris Johnson, by making this public statement, let's just say things might have been a little bit difficult when he got home, if you get what I mean.

00:45:22.400 Carrie Johnson wouldn't have been happy because that's not the position that she shares.

00:45:27.880 And she's become, for all the wrong reasons, increasingly influential on Boris Johnson's decision making over the past couple of years.

00:45:35.240 All right. We have about a minute left. What do we think about his chances of re-election?

00:45:41.560 Well, they're looking better now. I mean, I'm sorry, if you've got a leader of the opposition who cannot answer the question, does, can a woman have a penis?

00:45:52.300 I mean, I think that's someone who's heading to electoral disaster.

00:45:56.420 We just put one on the Supreme Court.

00:45:57.820 I know. I know. I know. It's bad.

00:46:03.060 And I think if you look at what's happened in the Biden administration, actually, there's a great warning.

00:46:07.820 And the British people are very much taking note at what happens when you have woke warriors taking over power.

00:46:15.540 I will say, and Megan, by the way, I'm not one of the people that particularly cares about what's become known as the Partygate scandal,

00:46:22.820 you know, whether Boris Johnson was having people over to his house when he had locked the whole country down,

00:46:27.580 because I just feel like the world has moved on and all the scandal should prove is that we should never have locked down in the first place.

00:46:34.000 It was completely morally wrong to ask people to go through that.

00:46:37.000 But I will just say the police investigation is continuing.

00:46:41.100 So there is still the possibility that Boris Johnson could be fine.

00:46:44.240 But look, I think Boris has provided great moral leadership over the Ukraine crisis.

00:46:48.980 Boris Zelensky, obviously one of the most popular politicians in the world in some quarters at the moment.

00:46:53.660 I know there's other people who are very anti-Zelensky, but in a lot of quarters, he's very popular.

00:46:57.220 And of course, he's bigging Boris Johnson up all the time.

00:46:59.920 So, no, I think Boris is in a in a good place at the moment.

00:47:04.100 Dan, always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

00:47:07.700 Thank you so much, Megan. Keep well. Hope your eyes are OK.

00:47:10.700 Thank you very much. We'll be right back.

00:47:12.440 Thank you.

00:47:42.440 And how he survived it and how what his advice is for others to survive it when the cancellation mob comes for them.

00:47:50.080 I've become a true fan and he's here to talk about all of it, along with his new poetry book, which we all have to buy to support him because the mainstream will not promote him.

00:48:00.300 The book is called Rosary Made of Air.

00:48:04.520 Welcome, Joseph Massey. Great to have you here.

00:48:06.880 It's great to see you, Megan, or kind of see you.

00:48:10.900 You're wearing the shades. Can you see?

00:48:14.220 I can see. I can't like when I'm reading my papers.

00:48:16.640 It's hard only because my shades are so tinted.

00:48:20.280 But my eyes are now seeing perfectly. Praise Jesus.

00:48:24.720 Praise Jesus. Yeah.

00:48:26.440 Amen.

00:48:26.760 So there's a lot to go over.

00:48:29.940 Now, first of all, should I call you Joseph or Joe or Paul?

00:48:34.840 Joseph's fine.

00:48:35.820 Your producer was I think he was calling me George and he did it twice.

00:48:39.700 It runs in the family, Joseph.

00:48:41.400 Even after I corrected him.

00:48:42.700 And then your other producer called my book Rosemary Made of Air.

00:48:47.080 I can't get a break on the Megyn Kelly show.

00:48:52.400 So but but you give the breaks out as often as human humanly possible.

00:48:56.640 I told my audience about this.

00:48:58.040 I know you heard this.

00:48:58.740 But for those who didn't hear this episode, we were doing an episode on time management.

00:49:02.780 And I was saying I'm not very good at responding to people via text message, via email.

00:49:07.200 Abby's over there going via DM doesn't matter.

00:49:10.720 And you were nice enough to reach out to me via DM.

00:49:13.200 I follow you on Twitter for very good reason.

00:49:15.100 And you're amazing.

00:49:16.300 And and you you sent me a note.

00:49:19.440 So about a month later, I realized I had a note from you and I responded.

00:49:22.820 And again, your name is Joseph Massey.

00:49:25.280 And I responded as follows.

00:49:28.060 Paul.

00:49:30.740 Why?

00:49:31.420 I don't know why I I am bad at checking DMs and apparently at remembering names that are

00:49:37.300 written right down for me.

00:49:38.540 But a belated thank you for doing this and for putting beauty into my days.

00:49:41.960 You may be the most thoughtful person on Twitter, which I realize is a low bar.

00:49:46.380 But still, and this is the thing that made me fall in love with Joseph Massey.

00:49:50.120 He writes back.

00:49:51.640 He writes back, Megan, your note made my night.

00:49:55.280 Thank you.

00:49:55.880 Your work is fearless and an inspiration and always great company.

00:49:59.560 I like the name Paul.

00:50:01.240 You can call me Paul if you want.

00:50:03.300 Normally I go by Joseph.

00:50:04.980 It's all very Catholic.

00:50:06.020 Either way, love your sense of humor.

00:50:10.240 So thank you for letting me off the hook on that one.

00:50:12.760 All right.

00:50:13.000 So let's go back to how you got into poetry, because I was just saying I've never interviewed

00:50:18.120 a poet before.

00:50:19.160 What drew you to it?

00:50:22.240 I was very young.

00:50:23.440 I was 12 years old and I was a very troubled student.

00:50:28.480 And I think that was the sixth grade year.

00:50:30.640 And they just told me to sit in the auditorium every day.

00:50:34.900 Don't go to don't go to class.

00:50:37.380 I don't know if that was legal.

00:50:38.900 I don't know how that happened, but that's what I did.

00:50:42.560 And during that time, I stumbled upon a biography about Jim Morrison, of all people.

00:50:49.460 I didn't even like the doors.

00:50:50.720 But it was through that book and reading about Jim Morrison's early life that I discovered

00:50:56.140 the French poet, Arthur Rimbaud and Friedrich Nietzsche, German philosopher, and then also

00:51:06.820 the beats, the beat poets, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, those poets especially.

00:51:12.100 And yeah, from that point forward, my life changed.

00:51:17.460 Was it one of those things you knew you had to do it?

00:51:19.760 It was therapeutic for you?

00:51:22.960 Yeah, at the time, it certainly was because my home life was rough.

00:51:26.560 You know, my family, the adults I was surrounded by, you know, they were very busy people working

00:51:35.760 in factories and just trying to survive and, you know, working in diners.

00:51:39.820 And so language was usually pretty coarse.

00:51:44.500 And reading these poets felt like real rebellion to me.

00:51:53.300 It was a way of reclaiming this language that, as far as I had known up to that point, was

00:52:00.960 only being used to curse at the Eagles game, you know, or yell at the dog or something.

00:52:08.000 Mm-hmm.

00:52:09.420 So I was wondering and reading more about you personally, because even before the Me Too

00:52:14.700 mob came for you, you had a tough upbringing.

00:52:18.800 You know, you made reference to it here, but there was abuse of all kinds.

00:52:22.940 You've been very open about it.

00:52:24.900 And it made me start to wonder whether...

00:52:26.200 I mean, forgive me the indelicacy of it, but whether one can be a happy poet.

00:52:32.900 Does one go into poetry to reflect on one's joys and happiness full-time?

00:52:38.840 Or do you think most people are drawn to it, at least initially, to express some form of

00:52:43.520 despair?

00:52:43.880 Well, I think it's both.

00:52:47.800 I don't know if someone can experience, for lack of a better way of putting it, full-on

00:52:55.820 joy if they haven't also experienced terrible despair.

00:53:01.420 What would they have to compare it to?

00:53:04.400 And so that's how I see that.

00:53:07.940 And a lot of my poetry does come out of a...

00:53:11.020 It's more than joy.

00:53:12.120 It's ecstatic.

00:53:16.360 There's a mystical kind of edge to some of the things that I do.

00:53:21.060 I mean, I'm constantly in wonder.

00:53:23.120 I'm in wonder of the world around me all the time.

00:53:25.360 I'm never bored.

00:53:27.920 So, yeah.

00:53:29.040 But I would not be a poet if it hadn't been for all of the, frankly, trauma that I endured.

00:53:37.540 Well, this is the reason your name came up in my earlier conversation, because we were

00:53:41.780 talking about how it's important to put down the iPhone and step away from the screens and

00:53:49.500 just take a moment to appreciate the beauty in life, life's small beauties, which, of course,

00:53:54.380 are also its great ones.

00:53:55.860 And you help do that in my life.

00:53:59.320 I've been following you for years now.

00:54:01.260 And you'll be scrolling through on Twitter, and it'll be a massive toxicity.

00:54:05.720 And then you'll hit a Joseph Massey tweet, which is usually about the bullshit nature.

00:54:10.800 Sorry, God, forgive me, Lent.

00:54:11.940 I'm screwing it up again.

00:54:12.940 Um, the BS nature of cancel culture and sort of wokeism, or it'll be an injection of beauty.

00:54:20.160 It'll be, it'll be like a link to something you've done, or the email is what I really

00:54:24.400 recommend.

00:54:24.780 And people can get this.

00:54:25.920 I went and looked today.

00:54:27.200 You can, you can join, you can follow Joseph Massey Substack for five bucks for month one.

00:54:32.580 You can try it out for one, for $5.

00:54:34.300 And you see his beautiful poems, always accompanied by a beautiful photograph.

00:54:39.700 And it's the smallest stuff.

00:54:41.400 And you can find beauty.

00:54:42.280 I mean, I've read your poems.

00:54:43.380 I've read your book.

00:54:44.520 You, you write about, you know, the scene at family dollar, you know, like over the parking

00:54:49.560 lot, like images we've all had, but we don't appreciate them in the, in the right way, in

00:54:54.400 the way that you help us to, to see them.

00:54:56.820 Yeah, that, well, my, my modus operandi on Twitter is to disrupt the toxicity.

00:55:01.680 I really love the idea of putting a poem without commentary, just putting the screenshot of a

00:55:07.920 poem up on Twitter and imagining somebody scrolling through just the most horrible, um, shit.

00:55:14.380 And then they come and they stumble upon the poem.

00:55:17.180 It must be, if they spend time to, to, to read it, it must be very, um, disruptive, but

00:55:23.360 I would hope in a, in a very positive way.

00:55:27.400 And, um, that's what poetry can do.

00:55:29.860 It reclaims, it rejuvenates language that's been so abused and, and used for manipulation.

00:55:38.140 It's been drained of its life through politics, the language of politics and the language of

00:55:43.920 war and the language of commerce.

00:55:46.100 And, um, the poem brings language back to a really human place.

00:55:51.960 And the purpose of a poem is to communicate.

00:55:55.780 And that's something that's lost in the world of screens and yada, yada, yada.

00:56:02.300 Mm-hmm.

00:56:03.120 And yet it's not as readily available as we'd like, you know, it's, you don't get poems

00:56:07.460 foisted on you the way you get links to books or new podcasts or new digital shows.

00:56:12.940 And that's another thing I love about following you on Twitter and also dispatches from the

00:56:18.040 basement, which is what you call the substack emails, uh, and links to your work.

00:56:23.160 Because it's, it just makes it, it's right there.

00:56:26.180 It's one click away as opposed to having to go look for it for somebody who doesn't follow

00:56:29.480 poetry like me.

00:56:30.860 It's, you make it super easy and the poems are easy to connect with.

00:56:35.180 I mean, you don't have to work that hard.

00:56:36.380 It's just beautiful.

00:56:37.360 Um, I'm sure for you, there's some labor that goes into it, but for the, for the reader,

00:56:42.460 there's no labor.

00:56:43.420 It's just, it's just love and connection and a thought or a moment of serenity.

00:56:49.700 It's the opposite of what I say.

00:56:51.500 Like a lot of these websites now are too cold about our feelings when they post things like

00:56:59.660 about child abuse or like, there's a terrible story going on right now about the killing of

00:57:05.700 this innocent dog in China by their, their crazy COVID police over there who have zero

00:57:11.280 COVID and the video is horrific.

00:57:13.500 I mean, they just post this, like you're just scrolling on Twitter and there's this, suddenly

00:57:17.140 you're assaulted with the video of, of animal torture.

00:57:20.080 That's not okay.

00:57:21.480 You're the antidote for that.

00:57:23.240 You're the antidote for that.

00:57:24.380 So I feel like what you're doing is important.

00:57:26.840 I want to give people just a sense.

00:57:28.040 This, this just came in my inbox on Monday.

00:57:29.720 All right.

00:57:29.960 This is from Joseph Massey's dispatches from the basement.

00:57:32.220 He writes, the poet has two jobs, write and survive.

00:57:37.640 And I got a list about my glasses.

00:57:39.400 I can't read.

00:57:39.960 Okay.

00:57:40.600 Write and survive.

00:57:41.880 Between the two, some kind of life occurs close to the ground in poverty.

00:57:47.000 And there are seasons, even as a snow squall pixelates the alley outside my window in the

00:57:53.940 middle of May.

00:57:55.380 Poetry is time chiseled into a shape that makes a sound.

00:58:00.440 Yes.

00:58:00.860 I love that.

00:58:01.580 So this is obviously written before, cause it's April, but, um, I, I wanted to ask you

00:58:06.380 about that, the poverty, cause you write about, you don't have a lot of dough.

00:58:10.400 Um, you should be charging more than $5 a month, first of all, but second of all, is that also

00:58:15.480 part of it?

00:58:16.060 And are there any rich poets?

00:58:19.240 Oh yeah.

00:58:20.020 The rich, the rich poets are the tenured professors who are, who are ruining poetry in my opinion,

00:58:25.260 uh, because the MFA poetry world is quite a racket.

00:58:30.360 And, uh, uh, I think there are 300 MFA programs in the country and pumping out how many thousands

00:58:37.820 of, uh, want to be poets every year.

00:58:41.260 Um, yeah.

00:58:43.260 And so the, the big money is in being a, a tenured professor.

00:58:46.560 It's rare to achieve that, but, um, and, and there are poets with trust funds.

00:58:53.100 I mean, the more that these MFA programs proliferate, uh, the more you see 20 somethings who, you know,

00:59:01.340 have very wealthy parents who never told them that, Hey, maybe you're not all that talented.

00:59:07.780 Maybe you should, uh, do ceramics and, you know, uh, pick something more practical, but,

00:59:14.720 um, that, that, that never happens.

00:59:18.840 So no, there aren't the poets that I've loved in my life.

00:59:23.600 They've dedicated their lives entirely to poetry and there is no real financial reward.

00:59:30.020 And that, however, since I was canceled and then had to rebuild my life over the course of

00:59:37.040 two or two and a half years, something like that, you know, I've been able to make some

00:59:42.680 money through the sub stack and the book that I just put out, I published it myself.

00:59:47.540 I've never published my own book before and I won't give the number, but I mean, I've, I've,

00:59:52.980 I've made enough in royalties to pay a couple of months worth of rent.

00:59:57.540 That's pretty unheard of for any poet.

01:00:01.340 All right.

01:00:01.500 But we have to, we have to, that's not good enough.

01:00:03.460 We have to do better.

01:00:04.240 Rosary made of air.

01:00:05.160 Everyone can go to amazon.com and buy it.

01:00:08.100 It's available on Amazon and we need it right now.

01:00:10.120 It's like number 70 in certain, in a poetry sub that's not good enough.

01:00:13.180 Let's get it to number one, please support Joseph Rosary made of air.

01:00:16.720 I never actually asked my audience to go.

01:00:19.380 I say, rec, I recommend it.

01:00:21.180 You should check it out.

01:00:21.960 I never say, please go buy it.

01:00:23.300 I'm saying, please go buy it, but we have to support artists like you who are putting

01:00:27.140 out good works into the ether who have been silenced by, you know, this group of moralists

01:00:33.680 who decides if you make mistakes in your life, you are never to be forgiven.

01:00:36.560 No matter how many mea culpa's, no matter how much you've shown the world that you see

01:00:41.140 the error of your ways, you understand you may have misstepped, but you're like, you're

01:00:46.400 human and you're on the same journey.

01:00:48.420 The rest of us are on evaluating past behaviors, learning from them.

01:00:52.640 If you're at all evolved, which you are and trying to do better.

01:00:56.980 So that leads us to the, the cancellation that you suffered during the me too movement.

01:01:02.480 And as I understand it, and I would love to have you back another time, really get into

01:01:07.200 it because the story is way, way more dense and complex than, you know, we, we can do justice

01:01:12.680 to here, but you had, you had a, a romance with a married woman.

01:01:18.620 She was a poet as well.

01:01:20.720 And it was bad.

01:01:21.900 It went bad.

01:01:22.880 It ended badly.

01:01:24.680 And it was always bad.

01:01:26.340 It was always bad.

01:01:27.560 Okay.

01:01:27.900 So it was always bad.

01:01:29.000 And as I understand that, this is my take on it.

01:01:31.360 You were in a bad place.

01:01:33.540 You contacted the husband on Facebook and told him that you were having an affair with the

01:01:36.980 wife and the wife decided the things were going to get worse for you and started publicly

01:01:45.340 making very derogatory posts about you, having her friends write long, anonymous letters about

01:01:51.320 what a terrible man you are contact.

01:01:53.700 It's more than that.

01:01:55.380 Contacting everyone with whom you did business in the poetry world.

01:01:58.160 I mean, everyone and, and encouraging them, urging them to cut ties with you, all of whom

01:02:04.160 did without offering you any chance to defend yourself, your actions, or really even in a lot

01:02:10.460 of circumstances to know what the specific allegations were.

01:02:15.480 No one told me anything about any specific allegations.

01:02:19.300 When you, I, I was working for the university of Pennsylvania, which was, I mean, it just felt

01:02:27.720 amazing.

01:02:28.280 I'm, I'm making money doing poetry.

01:02:30.060 I can possibly have a real living at this.

01:02:33.720 And with a ninth grade formal education, it felt like a real coup for me.

01:02:38.040 And, um, yeah, the director who was singing my praises only months before at a, uh, fundraiser

01:02:45.700 that he had me read for, uh, he, um, dumped me with a very legalese laden email and said,

01:02:55.200 point blank, I will not discuss any of the allegations against you.

01:02:59.980 And I won't discuss any of this with you.

01:03:02.440 You're just, you're done.

01:03:04.460 And, um, when these kinds of things continuously come at you over the, I mean, it went on for

01:03:11.760 it's like a year, like this really intense, um, loss of, of what I've felt I'd earned.

01:03:20.160 Um, it really starts to screw with your head, uh, not knowing what you're being accused of.

01:03:26.700 And later on, I came to find out that the woman I was in the affair with had been accusing

01:03:32.260 me of all kinds of things that were absolutely untrue and would have been easily enough, um,

01:03:40.960 disproven if I had been given a chance to defend myself.

01:03:44.680 Cause I never deleted a single email or text message from this lady.

01:03:48.260 Uh, and, uh, there are so many emails that would exonerate me.

01:03:54.060 Um, and, uh, I was never given that opportunity, which is why I eventually wrote the essay for

01:04:03.180 Quillette, which was my opportunity to give my side of the story.

01:04:08.000 But that was published in June of 2019.

01:04:11.140 The cancellation to have in January, 2018, it took that much time to kind of gather my

01:04:17.920 marbles.

01:04:19.380 And, and the audience should know you're very open in that, in that piece.

01:04:22.900 I mean, you, you lay it out very, very clearly that you've made mistakes, you've done bad things

01:04:28.140 and you're sorry for them.

01:04:29.080 And so it's not like you're trying to say nothing.

01:04:31.140 I've been perfect man.

01:04:32.320 And I treated all these women perfectly.

01:04:34.460 It's, it's, I'll own what I did, you know, some, some verbal mistreatment and, you know,

01:04:40.120 some bad incidents with me, but I'm not going to own what I didn't do.

01:04:43.420 And that's the problem with these like blanket allegations where people just want you canceled

01:04:47.200 for allegations without evidence.

01:04:49.660 And this is what I'm referring to in particular.

01:04:51.800 So I guess this woman with whom you had the affair had an anonymous, a friend penned this

01:04:56.400 anonymous letter and send it to all of your business associates.

01:05:00.900 And it, and she writes in it, this, a quote, anonymous person.

01:05:03.760 I hope you will end relations with Joseph and make a public statement about it, especially

01:05:08.960 in light of the cultural shifts around believing victims, right?

01:05:12.600 Back to the, you have to believe all women.

01:05:13.920 It's not, it's like not enough to have due process.

01:05:16.440 You have, the woman gets the thumb on the scale and then goes on to say, this is, this

01:05:20.740 is how she writes the letter to whom it may concern.

01:05:23.260 I just pulled out some phrases.

01:05:25.280 Far too many people have told me about his behavior.

01:05:29.800 Um, for many people in whisper networks, it is now taken for granted that he's a predator.

01:05:37.380 Well, what, that would never be admitted in a court of law.

01:05:40.260 You would get an objection that was sustained almost immediately upon saying something like

01:05:43.340 this and alleged encounter the writer had and so on and so forth.

01:05:48.080 Like, this is not proof.

01:05:50.200 This is, this is an attack that you should be given the opportunity to respond to.

01:05:55.960 And yet everyone in the poetry world turned their back on you.

01:06:00.500 That's right.

01:06:01.240 Yeah.

01:06:01.440 And you know, the, the main allegation in that letter was that I called the letter writer

01:06:06.780 hot at a poetry reading.

01:06:08.660 I know, I know who wrote that letter.

01:06:11.200 She's not hot and I never even met her.

01:06:14.380 So yeah.

01:06:16.140 And, uh, this was at the height, the peak of me too, when after it had kind of started

01:06:21.480 to spiral out of control, you know, the Oz, Aziz Ansari, um, situation and where things

01:06:28.060 really started to become kind of muddy, which was so unfortunate because me too was doing

01:06:32.640 a lot of good.

01:06:33.400 I know about your story.

01:06:35.800 That's disgusting.

01:06:37.380 Anybody could be treated that way in their workplace.

01:06:40.360 Um, but that energy that, that was behind that movement was taken and, uh, taken advantage

01:06:48.700 of by people like this woman I was in the affair with who orchestrated this destruction

01:06:57.560 of my life.

01:06:58.480 Um, but they failed.

01:06:59.940 They didn't destroy me.

01:07:01.040 It just took some time for me to, to rebuild.

01:07:04.220 Uh, but I have.

01:07:05.960 Now I'm so glad you're in a better place, but you, I think the.

01:07:09.680 The openness you've shown about the pain being canceled caused is admirable.

01:07:15.880 And I, I'd be lying if I said I didn't also relate to it.

01:07:20.800 Um, I think too often in an effort to make these stories empowering, we kind of skip over

01:07:24.900 just how devastating it can get.

01:07:26.480 You look around, you, I think you had a line in one of your pieces, the life, you know,

01:07:29.900 is now the life you knew it's gone.

01:07:32.320 It's gone in a second.

01:07:33.680 And you, you spend some moments in a tailspin asking yourself, how, what, what just happened?

01:07:41.400 What, you know, and the future, you don't know, you have no idea professionally, whether

01:07:46.580 you even have a future and it's devastating.

01:07:49.280 And in your case led to severe, severe depression and even suicide attempts.

01:07:55.420 Um, yeah, and extremely debilitating panic attacks almost every day.

01:08:04.060 Um, not the kind of panic attacks where it just, you know, uh, you know, I'm just a little

01:08:08.580 uptight or something, but like, I'm having a heart attack.

01:08:12.800 I'm, I'm dying, you know?

01:08:14.900 And, uh, yeah, that led me to, uh, being hospitalized for a couple of weeks.

01:08:21.200 And, um, that was incredibly helpful.

01:08:25.260 Uh, all the nurses there were so wonderful.

01:08:27.400 It was, I thought it would be like one floor with a cuckoo's nest, but it wasn't.

01:08:32.880 And, um, it really saved me, um, at that time.

01:08:37.020 And then also, you know, regaining my, uh, footing in a, on a spiritual path, uh, really

01:08:43.560 helped tremendously.

01:08:45.020 But, you know, Megan, one of the best things about writing that essay for Quillette is that

01:08:50.240 I've heard from countless people.

01:08:52.540 I still hear from them who've read the essay, who've experienced something or other that

01:08:58.300 I've described in the essay, and they have felt, uh, healed by it, or at least seen and

01:09:04.200 heard by what I wrote.

01:09:06.460 And that means the world to me.

01:09:09.560 I'm working on a memoir.

01:09:11.060 And the only reason I'm writing this thing is to potentially help other people.

01:09:15.340 I don't enjoy making art out of, uh, these horrible things that have happened.

01:09:21.700 Um, but I feel like it may be necessary.

01:09:25.700 Yes.

01:09:26.440 I feel that way too.

01:09:28.160 But you talk about how you got on medication.

01:09:31.900 First of all, you sought help, went to a hospital.

01:09:33.760 That was good.

01:09:34.380 You got on medication.

01:09:35.560 You went to Alcoholics Anonymous.

01:09:37.840 You got into meditation and breath work, which is so important.

01:09:42.840 And my sister-in-law, Diane, she loves breath work and can't say enough about it.

01:09:46.180 And I know you feel the same, you know, the deep breathing, holding it inside, you know,

01:09:51.400 and then exhaling and just sort of, if you can breathe, you're alive.

01:09:55.000 If you can breathe, you're still here.

01:09:57.400 If you can breathe, you can, you can write the poetry.

01:10:00.000 You know, you can go to the goodness.

01:10:01.800 For me, I, that's sort of where I diverged from you.

01:10:04.440 Cause I was like, I'm not sure rejoining the word, the world of media is goodness.

01:10:08.440 You know, like I had this toxic stew still sitting there saying, come back, come back.

01:10:13.980 And I was like, ew, ew, I don't want it on me.

01:10:16.000 I just got it off of me.

01:10:17.500 And then I kind of like you here, you know, found a different way.

01:10:21.100 It was like, oh my God, wait, what if you could do it without being in the toxic stew?

01:10:25.300 What if you could do the thing you love and that you know, you're really good at

01:10:27.480 without being in the toxic stew?

01:10:29.860 That's what you're doing.

01:10:30.700 That's what I'm doing.

01:10:31.560 But I want to say this.

01:10:32.400 Okay.

01:10:32.580 Can forgive me?

01:10:33.380 Cause I'm having, I'm just really trying to manage these sunglasses and all that, but you write

01:10:37.980 this.

01:10:38.740 Talking about sort of going for walks and feel companionship with everyone and everything

01:10:43.020 you pass.

01:10:43.940 You say, I, I know this drives against the grain of the fear and anger boiling within

01:10:49.180 you, but you have to find a way of re-channeling those emotions.

01:10:53.380 Don't let the mob drive you to annihilate yourself.

01:10:57.620 If the sun is out, turn your face toward it.

01:11:00.000 If it's raining, let it fall down the back of your neck.

01:11:03.380 Feel yourself present in every given moment.

01:11:05.880 The sense of loss is overwhelming, but now cannot be lost.

01:11:11.140 Now cannot be lost.

01:11:13.660 And if you continue with this practice, grace will find you.

01:11:17.620 Oh my God.

01:11:18.400 That's so beautiful.

01:11:19.300 That's not even a poem, but it makes me feel the same way your poetry does.

01:11:24.380 You do those things.

01:11:25.400 It's reflected in your photography, in your poems, the beauty of the puddle, the beauty

01:11:30.480 of the fence post, the beauty of what's out the window on a spring day.

01:11:36.100 I mean, it wasn't just the, it wasn't just the meds, you know, that helped or the breathing

01:11:42.560 techniques.

01:11:43.100 It was continuing to write poetry and continuing to take photographs and continuing to engage

01:11:50.500 the world as I always had.

01:11:53.260 And, uh, that is what really, I wouldn't be here without it.

01:11:58.980 And, um, yeah, in that essay, I stress again and again, uh, to continue to, to do what you've

01:12:05.700 always done, find a way to do it if you're able, you know, cause some people who go through

01:12:11.200 this, they're just, they're flat on their back and almost a catatonic state for, you know,

01:12:17.880 they're, they're not, they're not functional.

01:12:19.480 Um, it's such a devastating thing.

01:12:22.880 And I know about your story and I, you know, I've, I've had a tiny taste of being publicly

01:12:29.180 humiliated or having crappy articles written about me and, you know, you, you endured quite

01:12:36.340 a bit, but that's one of the reasons why I sent you my fan boy note is because you did,

01:12:42.860 you came back.

01:12:44.520 This show is terrific.

01:12:46.160 You've, it seems like you're, you're truly yourself in the show.

01:12:49.640 Like it's, it's fully you.

01:12:52.420 And, um, I love it.

01:12:54.880 It's, it's been, it's been part of my, uh, media healthy diet.

01:13:00.460 Oh, thank you so much.

01:13:02.520 Honestly, it's, it's a pleasure to meet you.

01:13:04.900 And, uh, I really, I want people for their own sake.

01:13:08.140 It'd be great to support Joseph, of course, for all the reasons I stated, but for your own

01:13:12.040 sake, follow on Twitter, go sign up for the substantial.

01:13:16.620 It's, it's inexpensive, even on a yearly basis.

01:13:19.280 I'm going to get one for all of my team before, before the day is out.

01:13:22.120 Abby, would you make a note of that?

01:13:24.100 Um, and just bring a little dose of lovely, of serenity, of thoughtfulness, of peace, of

01:13:32.600 wellness into your life, of meaning, meaning into your life.

01:13:37.600 Thanks to Joseph.

01:13:38.340 Meaning, that's right.

01:13:39.740 What a pleasure.

01:13:41.000 Thanks for everything, Joseph.

01:13:42.100 Joining me now is renowned LASIK surgeon, Dr. Robert Maloney.

01:13:49.420 He has helped the stars.

01:13:51.600 I mean, lots of them, including most of the Kardashian family see clearly for over 25 years.

01:13:58.760 Dr. Maloney, thank you so much for being here.

01:14:00.860 It's a pleasure, Megan.

01:14:01.880 Happy to be here.

01:14:02.540 All right, so I am 20 hours off of my own LASIK surgery, which I had here in Connecticut

01:14:09.440 yesterday.

01:14:10.060 I want to say it was Dr. Suresh Mandava in Stanford, Connecticut, who did mine.

01:14:15.780 And I love Dr. Mandava.

01:14:17.520 He's wonderful.

01:14:18.060 He's done a ton of these things, and I felt like I was in very good hands.

01:14:21.820 You can relate to that, because not only are your credentials impeccable, summa cum laude,

01:14:26.520 Harvard College, medical doctorate from University of California, San Francisco.

01:14:30.620 You were a Rhodes Scholar, went to Oxford, residency in ophthalmology at Johns Hopkins.

01:14:34.500 You were one of the first to get involved with LASIK, even having it on your own eyes back

01:14:39.600 in the dark ages, 1997.

01:14:42.620 So you're a perfect person to talk about, and Dr. Mandava agreed.

01:14:45.300 Um, let me ask you this.

01:14:48.540 One, one day out from LASIK, what should I be expecting?

01:14:52.620 Just so we can see whether I'm, I'm doing okay.

01:14:55.640 Sure.

01:14:56.040 And I'm sure you're, you're in great hands.

01:14:57.660 I'm sure you're doing great.

01:14:58.480 So you should have little red dots on your eye, which is, I suspect why you've got those

01:15:02.540 sunglasses on.

01:15:03.880 Yes.

01:15:04.460 And you're not supposed to wear makeup typically for a period of a week, which is another reason

01:15:08.360 to put the glasses on.

01:15:09.700 You should have a little bit of irritation today.

01:15:12.300 You should have a little bit of fogginess to your vision.

01:15:14.660 I saw you struggling to read momentarily there.

01:15:17.140 And that's pretty normal.

01:15:18.640 That fogginess will go away tomorrow.

01:15:20.740 The irritation will go away typically in a day to a week.

01:15:24.140 And then your vision should be incredible.

01:15:27.340 Great.

01:15:27.720 I mean, it was so great today to wake up for the first time ever in my memory.

01:15:31.500 Anyway, being able to see the alarm clock, like not struggling to find my glasses.

01:15:35.320 I know.

01:15:36.140 It's like, well, I woke up the morning after my LASIK surgery.

01:15:38.860 And for a moment, I thought I'd forgotten to take my contacts out because I was seeing so well.

01:15:42.400 Yes, exactly right.

01:15:44.060 So I want to tell the audience that, first of all, the procedure was, to me, a nothing.

01:15:48.280 I mean, he gave me some sort of a happy pill, which he said had Valium.

01:15:52.000 I think he said one of the ingredients was ketamine, which is the stuff you get, like it's

01:15:56.040 a psychedelic or something you get if you want to take a trip with your psychiatrist and some

01:16:02.780 third ingredient.

01:16:03.540 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:16:05.020 Yep.

01:16:05.540 Yep.

01:16:05.780 It really makes you very relaxed, doesn't it?

01:16:08.700 Yeah, exactly.

01:16:09.420 So I was like, it's not working.

01:16:10.620 It's not working.

01:16:11.140 Then I stood up and I almost fell over.

01:16:12.520 I'm like, it's working.

01:16:13.720 So I walk in, I lie down on the table.

01:16:17.060 And I mean, it was like 10 minutes, 12 minutes tops.

01:16:20.860 The machine came over my right eye and it did like, it looked like etching.

01:16:25.080 It looked like, I don't know, just lines.

01:16:28.160 And then it went away and then it came back and it did something else.

01:16:31.940 And then the same exact thing on the left side.

01:16:34.540 And then he said, get up, you're done.

01:16:37.220 That's, that's, that was it.

01:16:39.240 I know.

01:16:39.800 It's crazy.

01:16:40.440 I like to say it's the first procedure of the 20, 23rd century.

01:16:44.120 It just got here really early.

01:16:45.960 So I went in this morning before the show to get tested.

01:16:48.280 And already, even though I'm still a little cloudy already, I'm at 20, 20 vision without

01:16:52.760 any corrective lenses.

01:16:54.080 I mean, that's, it's a miracle.

01:16:55.940 Yeah.

01:16:56.500 Yeah.

01:16:57.060 It's, it's crazy how easy it is.

01:16:59.100 I mean, and it's scary for people because I mean, imagine you felt this way.

01:17:02.460 You're going in going, oh my God, they're going to laser my eyeball.

01:17:05.360 What's going to happen.

01:17:06.780 And then you take the, you take the sedative and it really, you still feel anxious and you

01:17:11.220 get in there and you're still anxious.

01:17:12.880 And then it's over in 10 minutes.

01:17:14.900 All of a sudden, wow, that was easy.

01:17:16.740 Yeah.

01:17:16.920 No, I will confess.

01:17:17.880 I had no nerves about it.

01:17:18.820 I don't, I just didn't feel nervous about this procedure, but my husband who won't even

01:17:22.860 go to the eye doctor for a normal eye exam, I have to lie to him and tell him they

01:17:26.280 got rid of the glaucoma test to get him to go because he doesn't like things coming

01:17:29.180 near his eye.

01:17:30.260 He, he was like, oh, I'm going to go with you.

01:17:32.180 I want to be supportive.

01:17:33.080 And then they convinced him to like watch it from outside.

01:17:36.340 And the, he wasn't expecting the closeup on the video screen.

01:17:39.840 And I'm like, oh, did you get, cause he was going to video it for my kids, our kids.

01:17:43.440 And I go, did you get it?

01:17:44.400 And he was like, no, I had to sit down.

01:17:47.440 We occasionally have people just faint.

01:17:49.440 And, uh, you know, when we're doing the surgery and it's, it's, we try and catch them before

01:17:53.400 they fall, but it, it, it can be hard to watch.

01:17:55.840 It's easy to do.

01:17:56.460 It can be hard to watch.

01:17:57.600 Okay.

01:17:57.960 So one of the reasons we always say, we always say, if you're thinking about LASIK, have it

01:18:01.920 before you watch it.

01:18:03.540 Exactly.

01:18:04.040 Okay.

01:18:04.300 There you go.

01:18:04.820 Cause one of the reasons that I was not nervous is I did not consult Dr. Google at all about,

01:18:10.540 you know, possible downsides.

01:18:11.760 I just listened to my doctor on that and I didn't watch it.

01:18:15.300 So I was like, fine, I don't need to know.

01:18:17.320 It's like, I didn't need to watch them do my, uh, cesarean section either.

01:18:21.080 Right.

01:18:21.300 There's no, some things are not necessary.

01:18:22.840 They get done works out.

01:18:24.160 Okay.

01:18:24.520 But the, the terrible, like LASIK will kill you.

01:18:28.600 It'll make you blind websites.

01:18:30.480 You tell me, cause my impression is those are people who chose doctors who should not be

01:18:35.300 doing LASIK.

01:18:37.200 Yeah.

01:18:37.560 I mean, the safety LASIK is unbelievably good.

01:18:40.760 You know, it's clear.

01:18:41.920 I mean, people worry about what will a disaster happen?

01:18:45.140 Will I lose my vision?

01:18:46.940 Um, it's very clear that LASIK is less likely to make you lose your vision than contact lenses.

01:18:52.380 I mean, the risk of a contact lens statistics is about one in 3,500 every single year.

01:18:56.980 It doesn't sound like much, but it adds up over time.

01:18:59.360 Wow.

01:19:00.020 And, uh, with LASIK, the risk of infection is incredibly low.

01:19:03.540 And so the safety of LASIK is unbelievable.

01:19:06.380 The, the, there are websites out there where people have problems and part of it's a reflection

01:19:10.340 that nothing is perfect.

01:19:11.900 There's always a slight risk to any procedure.

01:19:13.960 But these stories are generally from 10, 20, 25 years ago from the early days of LASIK when

01:19:20.620 doctors were treating people who maybe shouldn't have had LASIK and our equipment and techniques

01:19:27.160 were old.

01:19:28.160 I mean, it's like airplanes, right?

01:19:29.760 But if you're flying a Model T airplane, uh, I mean, a Model T, um, a Wright brothers airplane,

01:19:35.800 a lot of them crashed.

01:19:36.920 A lot of people died.

01:19:38.100 Nowadays, air travel is much safer than driving a car or walking through the streets of New

01:19:41.860 York.

01:19:42.820 As you know.

01:19:43.500 Mm-hmm.

01:19:44.280 Yeah.

01:19:44.620 If you go to one of those big surgical centers, that's just like they crank them out, then

01:19:49.700 that's like a volume business.

01:19:51.360 There may be pressure from, you know, corners.

01:19:53.620 You don't want pressure from to get a lot of surgeries done.

01:19:57.020 You don't want that.

01:19:58.120 You, you want to go to an individualized surgeon who's done, who does a ton of these and, um,

01:20:03.540 who will turn you away.

01:20:05.160 If you're not a candidate, like I have dry eye, which is really the reason I got LASIK.

01:20:09.960 I was, I could still wear my contacts.

01:20:11.860 They actually weren't bothering me, but I know that they're bad for dry eye.

01:20:14.900 They exacerbate dry eye over the long haul.

01:20:16.900 So, you know, my doctor was like, kind of, you should wear your glasses full time or consider

01:20:20.700 LASIK.

01:20:21.720 Um, so, but if you have severe dry eye, they probably won't do LASIK on you.

01:20:26.380 So I needed an honest doctor, right?

01:20:27.960 To say you are, are not a candidate.

01:20:31.940 Yeah.

01:20:32.340 So, um, did you, were you having trouble wearing your contacts because of the dryness?

01:20:37.280 Not really, but my eyes have definitely gotten drier over the past, like four years.

01:20:41.680 You know, if I step out into the wind, they instantly tear.

01:20:44.560 Um, if I read a lot, which I do for work, they get very, very tired pretty quick.

01:20:49.640 And did you have to use lubricating eye drops to keep your eyes moist?

01:20:53.100 I'm on restasis.

01:20:54.780 Yeah.

01:20:55.200 Which is just annoying as you're always putting something in your eye.

01:20:58.400 Contacts suck all the moisture out of your eyes.

01:21:00.320 So if you have mild dry eyes, contacts are hard to wear.

01:21:04.280 And we have very good studies that show that dry eyes on average improves after LASIK because

01:21:11.420 you get the contacts out and your eyes are now natural and healthy.

01:21:16.460 Wow.

01:21:16.660 That's not to say everybody.

01:21:17.880 Some people, their dry eyes get worse.

01:21:19.380 And that's why we're very careful about people who have severe dry.

01:21:22.120 For somebody like you with mild dry eye, with their contacts, it's a, it's a miracle.

01:21:25.660 I mean, you'll, you'll wake up every day and you'll stop putting those drops in.

01:21:29.460 You'll stop feeling your eyes tear up in the wind.

01:21:31.860 It's great.

01:21:32.700 Wow.

01:21:33.320 See, I always said, I can't lose my eyes.

01:21:36.300 You know, that's how everybody feels, right?

01:21:37.640 I'm like, I, I, I lose, I'll lose my job if I can't use my eyes and contacts correct me

01:21:42.560 perfectly.

01:21:43.240 So why would I get LASIK?

01:21:44.840 What I didn't realize was contacts day after day, even the daily disposables like I wore,

01:21:49.260 they actually can damage your eye.

01:21:51.320 They can add to dry eye and they can do long-term damage that you should factor into your decision.

01:21:56.800 Yes.

01:21:57.000 And they can cause blood vessels to grow into your eye that shouldn't be there.

01:22:00.140 I mean, there's, there's, there's issues with any way you correct your vision.

01:22:04.680 So you say your goal is to have a world that's glasses and contacts free, that you actually

01:22:09.080 think that's a reality.

01:22:10.620 Do you think that's a reality like in our lifetime?

01:22:13.100 I think we're really close.

01:22:14.600 Like sort of the dream that motivates me as a surgeon is for me to be kind of walking

01:22:21.120 through a museum with my grandchild someday and, and he pulls on my shirt and says, what's

01:22:27.040 that?

01:22:27.420 And it's, it's a display case with eyeglasses and contact lenses and he has no idea what it

01:22:32.940 is.

01:22:33.600 Wow.

01:22:34.300 That that's, that's sort of my dream.

01:22:36.380 And I, I think it's amazingly close to reality.

01:22:39.800 So we've solved almost every problem with glasses and contacts, except we don't yet

01:22:45.540 have a perfect solution for the loss of reading vision that comes with age, you know, where

01:22:50.380 grandma and grandpa pull out their reading glasses.

01:22:53.660 In fact, it's not just grandma and grandpa's anybody over 45 generally needs reading glasses

01:22:58.000 and it's frustrating.

01:23:00.000 You know, you, you see people holding things way out in front of them trying to read it.

01:23:04.320 And, um, we haven't got a great solution for that.

01:23:07.020 But usually we solve that by doing one eye more for distance vision, one eye more for

01:23:11.360 reading vision.

01:23:12.060 So the eyes kind of work together and let you read that doesn't work for everyone.

01:23:15.640 Yeah, exactly.

01:23:16.300 That's what I got.

01:23:17.040 They call it mono vision, right?

01:23:19.180 Exactly.

01:23:19.740 And it's perfect for somebody like you, who's an on-air performer.

01:23:22.200 You don't mean you don't want to be grabbing, you know, granny glasses and putting them on

01:23:27.820 in order to read something.

01:23:29.080 It doesn't work.

01:23:30.080 It's too much of a hassle.

01:23:31.440 Well, it's funny because my up close reading was doing okay, but I know it's going to go in

01:23:35.200 the wrong direction and my long distance vision was always the problem.

01:23:38.580 So I put people out there who wear contacts.

01:23:40.120 You'll understand this.

01:23:40.860 I was wearing a minus three in each eye, minus 3.0.

01:23:44.820 And, um, I tried doing a minus three and a minus two.

01:23:48.420 You figure out which one is your dominant eye.

01:23:50.000 Your doctor does that with you and your dominant eye.

01:23:52.040 They correct for the long distance.

01:23:53.220 So that stayed minus three.

01:23:54.420 And then the weaker eye, I guess, non-dominant, they'll, they'll under correct that in the

01:23:59.900 LASIK.

01:24:00.540 So that's going to be your reading eye.

01:24:02.580 And so I tried minus three and minus two, minus three and minus 2.25, minus three and

01:24:07.640 2.2, 2, 2, 5 and so on.

01:24:10.260 And I wound up settling on minus two, seven, five and minus three.

01:24:14.440 And I wore those contacts for months to see if I could read.

01:24:17.200 And I love it.

01:24:18.380 I was like, this one I could do.

01:24:19.540 So, yeah, and so kudos to, you know, kudos to your doctor, because that's what the kind

01:24:25.600 of the LASIK mills don't do is you need a doctor in a system that'll sit down with you

01:24:29.920 and really figure out how your vision should be corrected and what's the right procedure

01:24:33.960 for you.

01:24:34.400 You know, LASIK's not for everyone.

01:24:36.180 I mean, it's fantastic for people who are minus three, but not for people who are minus

01:24:40.060 12.

01:24:41.300 And so, you know, you need a center that'll figure out what's right for you.

01:24:46.700 For the really near-side up here, we do something called the implantable contact lens.

01:24:50.960 Yeah, what's that?

01:24:52.540 Ah, it's fantastic.

01:24:53.440 It's a tiny little clear.

01:24:55.120 It looks like your old soft contact lenses, but about half the size.

01:24:58.680 We roll it up in a little tube and insert it into the eye.

01:25:01.320 It unrolls, but it just stays there correcting vision permanently.

01:25:04.760 What?

01:25:05.760 Yep.

01:25:06.560 It's really neat.

01:25:07.660 Doesn't that cause dry, terrible dry eyes?

01:25:10.000 Yeah, no dry eyes.

01:25:11.800 Yeah.

01:25:12.240 That's a miracle.

01:25:13.780 Yeah.

01:25:14.220 Yeah, it's really neat.

01:25:15.200 And the next generation of this was just FDA approved this week, actually.

01:25:20.260 Wow.

01:25:20.540 And so that's growing in popularity.

01:25:23.480 That's for the people who have like minus 12, you're saying?

01:25:28.160 Well, actually, it's great for people a lot less than minus 12.

01:25:32.740 Like we're using it sometimes as low as minus four.

01:25:36.180 It just depends on the individual.

01:25:37.840 But my message is you want a center that'll figure out what's the right thing for you.

01:25:42.480 Because there's all saying if everything, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks

01:25:47.420 like a nail, right?

01:25:49.780 So you want a center that does a variety of procedures, got expertise in those.

01:25:53.880 It'll sit down with you and spend time to figure out what's right for you.

01:25:57.460 Well, I know that, you know, you've, you've taken care of every star in Hollywood.

01:26:00.680 They all go to you.

01:26:01.420 We've got video of you doing their Kardashians.

01:26:03.080 I think you did Kylie Jenner, you did Kendall Jenner, you did Kim Jenner, or Kim Kardashian,

01:26:07.800 Kris Jenner, William Shatner, Cindy Crawford, Dennis Quaid.

01:26:12.820 I could go on.

01:26:14.080 The list is pretty impressive of the people who have trusted you.

01:26:17.400 But finding the right doctor for, you know, the average Joe out there, they probably don't

01:26:21.780 have access to you.

01:26:22.700 They might not have access to a Dr. Mandava.

01:26:24.620 So how do they find out, okay, this guy's legit, I can entrust my eyes to him or her?

01:26:31.020 Yeah, well, 99.9% of people I correct are just regular people like, well, I was going

01:26:37.800 to say like you and me, but that would be just like me, actually.

01:26:40.760 And, you know, most of what we do is take care of school teachers and accountants and

01:26:45.720 other doctors.

01:26:47.060 I mean, that's, that's who we take care of.

01:26:48.920 The, there's a couple of things to look for in a, in a, in a surgeon.

01:26:52.120 One is you want somebody who's very experienced.

01:26:54.820 That's kind of obvious.

01:26:55.720 You want somebody who will sit around and answer your question.

01:26:58.220 You don't want to feel like you're getting a high pitch sales push.

01:27:01.960 You want people who are careful.

01:27:04.340 You want people with good reviews.

01:27:06.300 I mean, and you should read the reviews, find out not just how many good ones have, but look

01:27:10.760 at the bad ones.

01:27:11.540 Everybody gets bad reviews.

01:27:12.620 See how they responded or if they even did respond.

01:27:16.220 And they get referrals from your eye doctor because your eye doctor knows better than probably

01:27:20.920 anyone who the best LASIK surgeons are.

01:27:23.740 And so there's ways with a little bit of research, you can get great results like you've had.

01:27:29.100 All right.

01:27:29.620 So if you have a question for Dr. Maloney, he agreed to stay with us over the break.

01:27:33.180 You could call in now.

01:27:34.200 You could ask the Dr. Maloney about LASIK surgery.

01:27:38.120 He also is a world renowned cataract surgeon.

01:27:41.200 He does it all when it comes to the eyes.

01:27:43.140 All right.

01:27:48.200 Let's kick it off with Steve in Ohio.

01:27:52.060 Steve, what's your question for Dr. Maloney?

01:27:53.800 My question is, first of all, I appreciate the segment and I've learned a lot.

01:27:58.180 I actually have two quick questions.

01:28:00.080 My first is, how common is it for somebody to get the procedure in one eye only, like

01:28:05.400 my right eye, because my left eye is very close to perfect, far out and in close.

01:28:10.880 And then my second, go ahead with that.

01:28:15.100 You know, if it's not broke, we don't fix it.

01:28:19.360 So if one eye is good, we just do the other eye.

01:28:21.660 So that's not that uncommon.

01:28:23.580 Or sometimes we'll do just one eye for distance and leave the other eye for reading.

01:28:27.560 Megan mentioned monovision just a little bit ago.

01:28:30.380 Right.

01:28:31.320 Okay.

01:28:31.820 What's part two?

01:28:33.220 Part two was, I'm struggling with blood sugar that is higher than it should be.

01:28:38.260 I'm working it down.

01:28:39.460 I'm not on insulin.

01:28:41.140 And so going to my normal eye doctor, they realize that when your blood sugars change,

01:28:46.800 your eye and your vision changes.

01:28:48.900 And they don't want to invest in new glasses yet until I get my sugars stabilized.

01:28:54.260 Would you recommend the same stance about getting a LASIK procedure?

01:28:59.420 Yeah, kudos to them.

01:29:00.380 That's absolutely the right approach.

01:29:02.680 And get your blood sugar under control and then worry about your vision.

01:29:06.720 Look, it's real important for your health.

01:29:08.780 So don't give up.

01:29:09.940 Fascinating.

01:29:10.940 Okay, let's go.

01:29:11.780 Let's hop on over to Jim in South Carolina who's got a question.

01:29:14.760 Hi, Jim.

01:29:15.900 Yeah.

01:29:16.320 Hi, Megan.

01:29:16.880 Love the show, by the way.

01:29:18.440 Thank you.

01:29:18.760 I had a question.

01:29:20.980 I had cataract surgery last year and they just put in clear lenses and I am one of those

01:29:27.080 people that really wants to see perfectly out of both eyes and my right eye is still not

01:29:32.620 great for distance.

01:29:34.100 Can I, first of all, get the LASIK?

01:29:36.020 And second of all, is it worth doing?

01:29:39.000 Jim, you definitely can get the LASIK, assuming you're otherwise a good candidate.

01:29:42.380 In fact, I did my mom's LASIK after her cataract surgery because she still had some astigmatism

01:29:47.680 left over in both eyes.

01:29:49.380 So I did LASIK on both eyes.

01:29:50.420 She's had perfect vision now for seven, eight years.

01:29:53.600 Yeah, that was my issue.

01:29:54.940 They didn't correct the astigmatism.

01:29:56.820 Yeah.

01:29:57.200 So yeah, it can work very well.

01:29:58.900 You know, it just depends on the particulars of your case.

01:30:01.220 Find a great LASIK surgeon and ask.

01:30:03.180 So you can get LASIK after cataract surgery and you can get cataract surgery after LASIK?

01:30:08.400 Sure can.

01:30:09.060 Yeah, so Megan, someday you'll get cataract surgery.

01:30:13.100 Everyone, if you live long enough, gets a cataract, typically in your mid-70s.

01:30:16.900 But it's like gray hair.

01:30:17.760 It's just a normal part of aging.

01:30:19.020 So yeah, everyone gets it, even those who've had LASIK.

01:30:22.120 Sometimes you see people, elderly people, get like, it's almost like a buildup on their

01:30:26.900 eye.

01:30:27.280 You can see like their eyes becoming like, it almost looks like a scab is on it.

01:30:31.360 Is that a cataract?

01:30:32.900 No, you can't really see cataracts.

01:30:34.780 Cataracts, a haziness of the natural lens inside the eye.

01:30:38.040 So when you look out, your vision's foggy.

01:30:41.460 It's just not clear.

01:30:42.320 And it's very frustrating.

01:30:43.480 And you fix that.

01:30:44.760 Cataract surgery means you take your lens out, your natural lens, which is hazy, and put

01:30:48.820 a new clear lens in its place.

01:30:51.240 And that's what Jim was talking about.

01:30:52.920 And that works great.

01:30:53.940 Clears up the haze.

01:30:55.160 That thing you see on the eyes of old people is what we call a pinguicula.

01:30:58.640 It's like, it's usually a little yellow spot kind of just next to the colored part of the

01:31:03.260 eye.

01:31:03.440 And it's caused by age and sun exposure.

01:31:06.080 And they can be removed, actually.

01:31:08.160 And they don't look very good.

01:31:09.720 Good.

01:31:10.200 I don't want that.

01:31:11.660 I never go out in the sun because I'm so fair.

01:31:13.420 But it's good to know that's available.

01:31:15.680 All right.

01:31:15.840 Stacey in Wisconsin has a question for the good doc.

01:31:18.300 Stace?

01:31:19.140 Huge fam.

01:31:19.820 Thank you guys so much for talking about this.

01:31:21.960 Um, I have two questions, actually.

01:31:24.640 One, I'm just wondering when we're looking for the right place or doctor, is there some

01:31:29.360 kind of accreditation?

01:31:30.740 Is it just the American Medical Association?

01:31:33.400 Is there something we should be looking for that they have done training with that, you

01:31:37.900 know, kind of shows they're good?

01:31:41.380 Yeah, that's such a great question.

01:31:42.860 No, there's no accreditation, Stacey, for LASIK surgeons.

01:31:46.520 But there's some things that are sort of like accreditation.

01:31:49.100 Look for, look for people who are definitely board certified.

01:31:53.720 Look for people who've published articles about LASIK.

01:31:56.780 Generally, if you publish articles, you're probably an expert.

01:31:59.780 And, um, and again, get referrals from not just one person, but multiple people.

01:32:04.520 And the other thing is, here's another question.

01:32:06.800 How do they make sure, doc, that, that, that the guy has, or the gal, the most recent equipment?

01:32:11.120 Like you made the point about the Wright Brothers flight.

01:32:12.960 How do they make sure that it's the most recent laser?

01:32:15.740 Great question.

01:32:16.680 And one of the challenges is equipment.

01:32:18.340 It's, I've got about a million dollars of equipment in my, in my operating room.

01:32:22.460 And, uh, so the temptation is not to buy more equipment.

01:32:26.040 And so generally, um, places that do a high volume, uh, will have the latest equipment

01:32:32.320 because they can afford to reinvest in it.

01:32:33.960 So that's a good reason to stay away from people that don't do a lot of LASIK.

01:32:37.340 And then just ask them, what equipment are you using?

01:32:40.240 And, uh, they'll tell you.

01:32:42.000 And then you obviously won't know, but then go online and Google it and see if it's the latest

01:32:45.220 version.

01:32:45.980 All right.

01:32:46.120 Last question.

01:32:46.600 I'm going to steal this one.

01:32:47.380 What's the average price of LASIK?

01:32:48.600 A lot of people wonder that because it's not covered by insurance.

01:32:50.520 Is it not covered by insurance?

01:32:52.720 Um, price of LASIK per eye ranges at a good place from about 2000 to $3,500.

01:32:59.680 Um, you can get discount LASIK for a thousand, 1200, but usually that comes along with up

01:33:06.360 charges.

01:33:06.700 So you end up paying around 2000, $2,500 by the time you're done anyway.

01:33:10.840 All right.

01:33:11.140 Good to know.

01:33:11.740 And thank you so much for the great information and the great calls, everybody.

01:33:14.760 Thanks to everyone for the support on my own procedure.

01:33:17.720 I'll be looking like this again on Monday.

01:33:19.520 And until I can get my eye makeup back on in the meantime, don't miss Monday.

01:33:23.940 Cause my pal, Jeremy boring of the daily wire is here.

01:33:26.900 He's the one fighting back with Ben against all this nonsense.

01:33:29.560 You'll love him.

01:33:30.660 See you then.

01:33:31.040 And have a great, great weekend.

01:33:34.340 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:33:36.220 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 08, 2022

Savile's Horrific Crimes, and Life After the Cancel Mob, with Dan Wootton, Joseph Massey and Dr. Robert Maloney ｜ Ep. 296

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