SCOTUS Hears ＂Affirm Only＂ Therapy Arguments, AG Bondi Clashes with Dems over DOJ： AM Update 10⧸8
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Summary
The Supreme Court is taking up a challenge to Colorado's so-called "conversion therapy" law. We talk to one of the lawyers at the center of the case, and hear from a Colorado therapist challenging the ban. Plus, CozyEarth s pajamas and blankets are soft, breathable and so cute!
Transcript
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Good morning, everyone. I'm Megan Kelly. It's Wednesday, October 8th, 2025, and this is your
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AM Update. It is a one-way ratchet that is designed to push kids down a radical path.
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Lots of kids are being harmed because they can't get the help they need.
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The Supreme Court taking up a challenge to Colorado's so-called conversion therapy law.
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We talked to one of the lawyers at the center of the case.
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I wish you loved Chicago as much as you hate President Trump. And currently,
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And Attorney General Pam Bondi battling with Senate Democrats on law and order
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as Republican senators sound off on bombshell reporting that the Biden FBI secretly obtained
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their phone records in connection with its January 6th investigation.
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All that and more coming up in just a moment on your AM Update.
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The Supreme Court yesterday hearing arguments testing the limits of a therapist's free speech
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in a challenge to Colorado's ban on so-called conversion therapy treatment. In 2019, Colorado
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enacting the Minor Conversion Therapy Law, prohibiting mental health professionals from
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engaging in, quote, conversion therapy with patients under the age of 18. The law, which targets
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therapists, defines that as an effort, quote, to change an individual's sexual orientation or gender
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identity, including efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions or to eliminate or reduce
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sexual or romantic attraction or feelings toward individuals of the same sex. Colorado therapist
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Kaylee Childs argues the ban amounts to a, quote, viewpoint-based speech restriction on counselors
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in violation of the First Amendment. If she were to counsel a patient suffering from gender dysphoria
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who wanted affirmation of their transgender identity, that's totally permissible under the law.
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If Childs were to counsel a gender dysphoric patient who sought to grow comfortable with his or her
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natural body, it would be illegal. The Alliance Defending Freedom represents Childs in this case.
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We spoke with President and CEO, Kristen Wagoner, who says Colorado's definition of conversion therapy
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is far broader and more misleading than what the public has been led to believe.
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Colorado's description of conversion therapy is very misleading, and I think intentionally so.
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It actually, in the statute itself, defines conversion therapy as including any practice that you engage in
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that helps a client lessen their behaviors or change their behaviors, their affections, their attractions.
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And so it includes just simple conversations that we know the science says people benefit from.
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Kids need to be heard and be able to talk through things.
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And that is actually labeled as conversion therapy in this law.
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And again, Kaylee's counseling is simply listening and talking as are, you know, a number of therapists
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that are out there trying to help these kids navigate this issue.
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Colorado has no problem with therapists who affirm a child's preferred gender identity,
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but bans counseling that encourages the acceptance of biological reality.
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Colorado is saying, look, if you have a client that comes to you, a minor in this case,
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who's voluntarily wanting to be listened to and to talk to, and they say, I'm uncomfortable
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with my body, can you help me align my identity with my biological sex, Colorado says it has
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the power to censor those conversations and say, you can't even talk about that unless you help
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It's blatant viewpoint discrimination and violates the First Amendment.
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Wagoner says the one-sided restriction not only fails to protect children,
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it also can force them down an irreversible path that they would likely have grown out
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It is a one-way ratchet that is designed to push kids down a radical path.
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And what the science tells us, and even what has uncontested in this case, is that 90% of
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kids who are allowed to just go through puberty, who are experiencing gender dysphoria, but they
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But if instead you socially transition them, 97% of those kids will become lifelong medical
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patients and struggle with their biological sex for the rest of their lives.
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Not only does Colorado fail to prove that its law is necessary or that simply talking and listening
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to kids causes harm, but actually the evidence shows the opposite.
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Lots of kids are being harmed because they can't get the help they need.
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Justice Neil Gorsuch, a conservative, bringing up the issue of viewpoint discrimination,
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Justice Kagan saying in normal circumstances if one therapist is allowed to help a patient
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accept being gay, but another is barred from helping a patient change that, it sure sounds
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Colorado Solicitor General Shannon Stevenson asserting speech in a medical setting between a doctor
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and a patient is different from free speech and can be more freely regulated.
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Justice Samuel Alito questioning Stevenson on the politicization of medical consensus.
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Had there been occasions, I mean the medical consensus is usually very reasonable and it's very important,
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but have there been times when the medical consensus has been politicized, has been taken over by ideology?
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We have no facts about that in this case, but I wouldn't disagree that that's possible.
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Isn't that a fact that it's happened in the past?
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Was there a time when many medical professionals thought that certain people should not be permitted
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I don't know that, but I will accept the premise.
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I mean, was there a time when there were many, many medical professionals who thought
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that every child born with Down syndrome should be immediately put in an institution?
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The so-called medical consensus in America on treating gender-confused children is
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This, despite systematic reviews, the gold standard, showing the benefits of this approach to be
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weak at best and more likely at risk of causing children serious harm.
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The UK, Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Denmark have all either banned or sharply curtailed the
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The UK's well-respected CASS review, finding that children were being fast-tracked to medical
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interventions without sufficient psychological assessments of their mental health.
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You know, the kind where therapists get to ask questions about what's really behind the
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Despite all that, the alleged medical consensus in America is still to affirm the delusion and
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Standing alone in its effort to push back on this is the American College of Pediatricians,
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We are calling on these medical organizations of the United States, including the American
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Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society, the Pediatric Endocrine Society, the American
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Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Child
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and Adolescent Psychiatry to follow the science and their European colleagues and immediately stop
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the promotion of social affirmation, puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries
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for children and adolescents who experience distress over their biological sex.
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We are here defying the claims made by these medical organizations in the U.S. that those
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of us who are concerned are a minority and that their protocols are consensus.
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They are not consensus, and we are speaking in a loud, unified voice enough.
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Attorney Kristen Wagoner, who was present for yesterday's arguments, believes the high court's
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I'm very optimistic about how the court will rule on this case.
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I think that the court, it's likely going to be a vote that crosses, you know, potential
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ideological sides because the same standards of speech should be protected regardless of
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And the government has no business peering into the counseling room and censoring conversations.
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We would be thrilled with a ruling that says this law impinges on free speech, that it's
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restricting counselors, and especially those who are seeking voluntarily to have these conversations
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While declining to predict the final vote, Wagoner believes there will be significant agreement
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Oftentimes, the court's most controversial decisions do come out in June, but oftentimes when there
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is significant agreement among the court, the decisions will come out sooner.
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And I think that's actually a possibility here.
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A decision is expected sometime next year, and it won't just affect Colorado.
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About 20 other states have similar laws on the books, meaning the decision could have nationwide
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Coming up, Attorney General Pam Bondi goes toe-to-toe with Democrat senators on Capitol Hill
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as Republicans demand answers over a bombshell report that the Biden-FBI secretly pulled their
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Attorney General Pam Bondi appearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday in a
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four-and-a-half-hour hearing exposing the deep partisan divide over law and order in America.
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Bondi's opening statement highlighting the DOJ's recent successful state and federal partnerships
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Our federal surges in Washington, D.C. and Memphis are a perfect example of how the Department
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We created strong partnerships with local leadership, working hand-in-hand with both cities to send
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We have made more than 3,800 arrests here in Washington while seizing more than 365 illegal
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In Memphis, we have already made more than 300 arrests and close to 80 illegal guns in just
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We are replicating that tough-on-crime approach throughout this country.
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Under the leadership of Director Cash Patel, the FBI is doing outstanding investigative work
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The FBI just conducted a months-long operation called Summer Heat, which resulted in over 8,600
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More than 6,500 arrests fell under the FBI's violent crime and gang program.
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In both cities, the National Guard invited to provide additional support to federal agencies in D.C. by
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President Trump and in Memphis by Republican Governor of Tennessee Bill Lee.
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Recently in Portland and Chicago, President Trump deploying the National Guard, not by invitation
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from local authorities, but under his own federal powers to protect federal agents and property amid
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In Oregon and Illinois, Democrat leaders pushing back, filing lawsuits accusing the White House
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The administration countering that it is stepping in where local law enforcement efforts have failed,
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exposing ICE agents and DHS facilities to great peril.
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A.G. Bondi challenging Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, a Democrat, on the recent order deploying
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Were you consulted by the White House before they deployed National Guard troops to cities
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I am not going to discuss any internal conversations with the White House.
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The word is, and I think it's been confirmed by the White House, they are going to transfer
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Texas National Guard units to the state of Illinois.
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Yeah, Chairman, as you shut down the government, you voted to shut down the government, and
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you're sitting here, our law enforcement officers aren't being paid.
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I wish you loved Chicago as much as you hate President Trump.
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And currently, the National Guard are on the way to Chicago.
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If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will.
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Your city has a murder rate five times higher than New York's.
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Five hundred and seventy one homicides last year.
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We're there to help make America safe and Illinois safe, whether or not you want to.
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Former FBI Director James Comey, also a focus of Democrats throughout this hearing.
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Last month, Comey indicted by the DOJ on two counts, lying to Congress and obstruction relating
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to 2020 congressional testimony about authorizing leaks.
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Democrats reacting to the charges, accusing President Trump of carrying out unprecedented
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Some have questioned, retribution for what exactly?
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What was it the feds did to Trump again that would have inspired his unprecedented move to
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Bondi, probing whether the prosecution of James Comey came at the direction of the White
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Here, Senators Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Chris Coons of Delaware.
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I know you have said that you will not discuss discussions you've had with the president about
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That you won't testify here about that, because I was going to ask you if you received advice,
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instruction, or requests from anyone at the White House to direct the department to engage
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in any investigations, prosecutorial actions, including decisions not to investigate or prosecute
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The recent episode around the indictment of James Comey left me very concerned about the
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He was indicted by one of the most liberal grand juries in the country, and it's a pending
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So I'm not going to discuss the facts of a pending case.
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I don't remember these two questioning Biden AG Merrick Garland about whether he spoke to
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After all, Biden's push for him to do it was published in The New York Times in April 2022.
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James Comey set to be arraigned later today in Alexandria, Virginia.
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Several Republicans yesterday zeroing in on a new report from Just the News, revealing
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special counsel Jack Smith obtained the private phone records of eight, count them, eight GOP
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senators and one House member in connection with his January 6th investigation.
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Senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Josh Hawley of Missouri, and Marsha Blackburn
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of Tennessee all targeted, questioning AG Bondi.
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Can you tell me why my phone records, when I'm the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, were
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Why did they ask to know who I called and what I was doing from January 4th to the 7th?
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Tap five other phones of United States senators.
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Gee, it sure looks like targeting political opponents to me.
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But to tap our phones, to pull that data, for these wireless companies to have allowed
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them to have that, and for them to use it in their investigations.
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Ms. Bondi would not confirm or deny whether there is an active investigation into that
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discovery, but calling the matter one of great concern.
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Senator Blackburn, the weaponization against you and your colleagues should greatly concern
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There was a two-tier system of justice under the Biden administration.
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We saw Jack Smith weaponize the Justice Department against Donald Trump.
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We saw the Biden administration weaponize the entire Justice Department, all of the law
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enforcement agencies against Donald Trump, against his family members, against his friends
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And there is a one-tier system of justice in this Justice Department.
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Join me back here for The Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Triumph Channel 111 at Noon
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East, on YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly, and on all podcast platforms.