The Megyn Kelly Show - SCOTUS Hears ＂Affirm Only＂ Therapy Arguments, AG Bondi Clashes with Dems over DOJ： AM Update 10⧸8

00:00:00.000 Good morning, everyone. I'm Megan Kelly. It's Wednesday, October 8th, 2025, and this is your

00:00:08.220 AM Update. It is a one-way ratchet that is designed to push kids down a radical path.

00:00:15.840 Lots of kids are being harmed because they can't get the help they need.

00:00:18.880 The Supreme Court taking up a challenge to Colorado's so-called conversion therapy law.

00:00:24.260 We talked to one of the lawyers at the center of the case.

00:00:26.980 I wish you loved Chicago as much as you hate President Trump. And currently,

00:00:31.280 the National Guard are on the way to Chicago.

00:00:34.100 And Attorney General Pam Bondi battling with Senate Democrats on law and order 0.98

00:00:38.500 as Republican senators sound off on bombshell reporting that the Biden FBI secretly obtained

00:00:45.340 their phone records in connection with its January 6th investigation.

00:00:50.400 All that and more coming up in just a moment on your AM Update.

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00:02:03.580 The Supreme Court yesterday hearing arguments testing the limits of a therapist's free speech

00:02:12.020 in a challenge to Colorado's ban on so-called conversion therapy treatment. In 2019, Colorado

00:02:18.820 enacting the Minor Conversion Therapy Law, prohibiting mental health professionals from

00:02:24.100 engaging in, quote, conversion therapy with patients under the age of 18. The law, which targets

00:02:30.860 therapists, defines that as an effort, quote, to change an individual's sexual orientation or gender

00:02:38.080 identity, including efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions or to eliminate or reduce

00:02:44.960 sexual or romantic attraction or feelings toward individuals of the same sex. Colorado therapist

00:02:51.680 Kaylee Childs argues the ban amounts to a, quote, viewpoint-based speech restriction on counselors

00:02:56.840 in violation of the First Amendment. If she were to counsel a patient suffering from gender dysphoria

00:03:02.500 who wanted affirmation of their transgender identity, that's totally permissible under the law.

00:03:08.980 If Childs were to counsel a gender dysphoric patient who sought to grow comfortable with his or her

00:03:13.960 natural body, it would be illegal. The Alliance Defending Freedom represents Childs in this case.

00:03:20.140 We spoke with President and CEO, Kristen Wagoner, who says Colorado's definition of conversion therapy

00:03:26.860 is far broader and more misleading than what the public has been led to believe.

00:03:32.120 Colorado's description of conversion therapy is very misleading, and I think intentionally so.

00:03:38.060 It actually, in the statute itself, defines conversion therapy as including any practice that you engage in

00:03:45.700 that helps a client lessen their behaviors or change their behaviors, their affections, their attractions.

00:03:52.680 And so it includes just simple conversations that we know the science says people benefit from.

00:03:58.000 Kids need to be heard and be able to talk through things.

00:04:01.160 And that is actually labeled as conversion therapy in this law.

00:04:04.820 You can't lump things in that are different.

00:04:07.760 And again, Kaylee's counseling is simply listening and talking as are, you know, a number of therapists

00:04:14.460 that are out there trying to help these kids navigate this issue.

00:04:18.520 Colorado has no problem with therapists who affirm a child's preferred gender identity,

00:04:24.660 but bans counseling that encourages the acceptance of biological reality.

00:04:29.740 Colorado is saying, look, if you have a client that comes to you, a minor in this case,

00:04:34.620 who's voluntarily wanting to be listened to and to talk to, and they say, I'm uncomfortable

00:04:40.060 with my body, can you help me align my identity with my biological sex, Colorado says it has

00:04:47.040 the power to censor those conversations and say, you can't even talk about that unless you help

00:04:52.740 them transition to the opposite sex.

00:04:54.800 It's blatant viewpoint discrimination and violates the First Amendment.

00:04:59.160 Wagoner says the one-sided restriction not only fails to protect children,

00:05:03.640 it also can force them down an irreversible path that they would likely have grown out

00:05:08.660 of over time.

00:05:09.800 It is a one-way ratchet that is designed to push kids down a radical path.

00:05:17.020 And what the science tells us, and even what has uncontested in this case, is that 90% of

00:05:23.180 kids who are allowed to just go through puberty, who are experiencing gender dysphoria, but they

00:05:28.400 naturally grow comfortable with their bodies.

00:05:30.920 But if instead you socially transition them, 97% of those kids will become lifelong medical

00:05:38.680 patients and struggle with their biological sex for the rest of their lives.

00:05:43.220 Not only does Colorado fail to prove that its law is necessary or that simply talking and listening

00:05:49.820 to kids causes harm, but actually the evidence shows the opposite.

00:05:54.320 Lots of kids are being harmed because they can't get the help they need.

00:05:57.160 Justice Neil Gorsuch, a conservative, bringing up the issue of viewpoint discrimination,

00:06:02.620 as did liberal justice Elena Kagan.

00:06:05.380 Justice Kagan saying in normal circumstances if one therapist is allowed to help a patient

00:06:09.840 accept being gay, but another is barred from helping a patient change that, it sure sounds 0.89

00:06:15.700 like viewpoint discrimination.

00:06:17.600 Colorado Solicitor General Shannon Stevenson asserting speech in a medical setting between a doctor

00:06:23.800 and a patient is different from free speech and can be more freely regulated.

00:06:29.520 Justice Samuel Alito questioning Stevenson on the politicization of medical consensus.

00:06:36.020 Had there been occasions, I mean the medical consensus is usually very reasonable and it's very important,

00:06:43.300 but have there been times when the medical consensus has been politicized, has been taken over by ideology?

00:06:53.800 We have no facts about that in this case, but I wouldn't disagree that that's possible.

00:06:59.680 And I think that's a really...

00:07:00.380 Isn't that a fact that it's happened in the past?

00:07:02.440 Was there a time when many medical professionals thought that certain people should not be permitted

00:07:09.800 to procreate because they had low IQs?

00:07:12.620 I don't know that, but I will accept the premise.

00:07:14.860 I mean, was there a time when there were many, many medical professionals who thought

00:07:19.580 that every child born with Down syndrome should be immediately put in an institution?

00:07:26.380 I don't know that, Your Honor.

00:07:27.980 Thank you.

00:07:28.980 As usual, Justice Alito gets it.

00:07:31.980 The so-called medical consensus in America on treating gender-confused children is

00:07:36.680 affirm their delusion, no questions asked.

00:07:39.760 This, despite systematic reviews, the gold standard, showing the benefits of this approach to be

00:07:45.620 weak at best and more likely at risk of causing children serious harm.

00:07:51.040 The UK, Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Denmark have all either banned or sharply curtailed the

00:07:57.700 use of gender-affirming care for minors.

00:08:00.620 The UK's well-respected CASS review, finding that children were being fast-tracked to medical

00:08:06.480 interventions without sufficient psychological assessments of their mental health.

00:08:11.120 You know, the kind where therapists get to ask questions about what's really behind the

00:08:16.240 child's distress.

00:08:18.200 Despite all that, the alleged medical consensus in America is still to affirm the delusion and

00:08:25.180 provide drugs and surgeries on minors.

00:08:28.520 Standing alone in its effort to push back on this is the American College of Pediatricians,

00:08:33.940 which issued this warning last year.

00:08:36.680 We are calling on these medical organizations of the United States, including the American

00:08:41.960 Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society, the Pediatric Endocrine Society, the American

00:08:47.280 Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Child

00:08:52.440 and Adolescent Psychiatry to follow the science and their European colleagues and immediately stop

00:08:58.260 the promotion of social affirmation, puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries

00:09:03.320 for children and adolescents who experience distress over their biological sex.

00:09:08.660 We are here defying the claims made by these medical organizations in the U.S. that those

00:09:13.920 of us who are concerned are a minority and that their protocols are consensus.

00:09:18.520 They are not consensus, and we are speaking in a loud, unified voice enough.

00:09:23.040 Attorney Kristen Wagoner, who was present for yesterday's arguments, believes the high court's

00:09:28.460 decision will come down in her client's favor.

00:09:31.380 I'm very optimistic about how the court will rule on this case.

00:09:34.640 I think that the court, it's likely going to be a vote that crosses, you know, potential

00:09:39.980 ideological sides because the same standards of speech should be protected regardless of

00:09:45.080 what side you're on on a particular issue.

00:09:47.420 And the government has no business peering into the counseling room and censoring conversations.

00:09:51.460 We would be thrilled with a ruling that says this law impinges on free speech, that it's

00:09:57.340 restricting counselors, and especially those who are seeking voluntarily to have these conversations

00:10:02.140 as a violation of the First Amendment.

00:10:04.560 While declining to predict the final vote, Wagoner believes there will be significant agreement

00:10:09.380 among the justices.

00:10:11.140 Oftentimes, the court's most controversial decisions do come out in June, but oftentimes when there

00:10:16.040 is significant agreement among the court, the decisions will come out sooner.

00:10:20.680 And I think that's actually a possibility here.

00:10:22.840 We'll have to wait and see.

00:10:24.500 A decision is expected sometime next year, and it won't just affect Colorado.

00:10:29.300 About 20 other states have similar laws on the books, meaning the decision could have nationwide

00:10:34.740 implications.

00:10:37.240 Coming up, Attorney General Pam Bondi goes toe-to-toe with Democrat senators on Capitol Hill

00:10:42.580 as Republicans demand answers over a bombshell report that the Biden-FBI secretly pulled their

00:10:50.200 private phone records.

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00:11:55.440 Attorney General Pam Bondi appearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday in a

00:12:00.340 four-and-a-half-hour hearing exposing the deep partisan divide over law and order in America.

00:12:06.580 A.G.

00:12:06.900 Bondi's opening statement highlighting the DOJ's recent successful state and federal partnerships

00:12:12.240 targeting high-crime cities.

00:12:14.480 Our federal surges in Washington, D.C. and Memphis are a perfect example of how the Department

00:12:20.240 of Justice should operate.

00:12:21.800 We created strong partnerships with local leadership, working hand-in-hand with both cities to send

00:12:29.060 resources where they were needed most.

00:12:31.680 The results speak for themselves.

00:12:34.240 We have made more than 3,800 arrests here in Washington while seizing more than 365 illegal

00:12:43.020 guns.

00:12:43.780 In Memphis, we have already made more than 300 arrests and close to 80 illegal guns in just

00:12:50.480 a week.

00:12:51.040 We are replicating that tough-on-crime approach throughout this country.

00:12:55.940 Under the leadership of Director Cash Patel, the FBI is doing outstanding investigative work

00:13:01.020 to keep American people safe.

00:13:03.260 The FBI just conducted a months-long operation called Summer Heat, which resulted in over 8,600

00:13:09.060 arrests from June to September.

00:13:11.440 More than 6,500 arrests fell under the FBI's violent crime and gang program.

00:13:17.360 In both cities, the National Guard invited to provide additional support to federal agencies in D.C. by

00:13:24.640 President Trump and in Memphis by Republican Governor of Tennessee Bill Lee.

00:13:30.120 Recently in Portland and Chicago, President Trump deploying the National Guard, not by invitation

00:13:35.700 from local authorities, but under his own federal powers to protect federal agents and property amid

00:13:41.800 unrest.

00:13:42.480 In Oregon and Illinois, Democrat leaders pushing back, filing lawsuits accusing the White House

00:13:48.600 of overreach.

00:13:50.220 The administration countering that it is stepping in where local law enforcement efforts have failed,

00:13:55.680 exposing ICE agents and DHS facilities to great peril.

00:13:59.440 A.G. Bondi challenging Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, a Democrat, on the recent order deploying

00:14:05.580 hundreds of National Guard troops to Chicago.

00:14:08.120 Were you consulted by the White House before they deployed National Guard troops to cities

00:14:14.400 in the United States?

00:14:15.940 I am not going to discuss any internal conversations with the White House.

00:14:20.020 The word is, and I think it's been confirmed by the White House, they are going to transfer

00:14:23.960 Texas National Guard units to the state of Illinois.

00:14:27.900 What's the rationale for that?

00:14:29.440 Yeah, Chairman, as you shut down the government, you voted to shut down the government, and

00:14:33.820 you're sitting here, our law enforcement officers aren't being paid.

00:14:36.860 They're out there working to protect you.

00:14:38.860 I wish you loved Chicago as much as you hate President Trump.

00:14:41.920 And currently, the National Guard are on the way to Chicago.

00:14:45.300 If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will.

00:14:49.260 Your city has a murder rate five times higher than New York's.

00:14:54.380 Five hundred and seventy one homicides last year.

00:14:59.760 We're there to help make America safe and Illinois safe, whether or not you want to.

00:15:07.760 Former FBI Director James Comey, also a focus of Democrats throughout this hearing.

00:15:12.580 Last month, Comey indicted by the DOJ on two counts, lying to Congress and obstruction relating

00:15:18.420 to 2020 congressional testimony about authorizing leaks.

00:15:23.140 Democrats reacting to the charges, accusing President Trump of carrying out unprecedented

00:15:28.020 retribution against political enemies.

00:15:30.940 Some have questioned, retribution for what exactly?

00:15:34.120 What was it the feds did to Trump again that would have inspired his unprecedented move to

00:15:41.420 indict his political enemies?

00:15:44.360 Hmm.

00:15:45.900 Democrats questioning A.G.

00:15:47.340 Bondi, probing whether the prosecution of James Comey came at the direction of the White

00:15:52.480 House.

00:15:53.280 Here, Senators Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Chris Coons of Delaware.

00:15:57.740 I know you have said that you will not discuss discussions you've had with the president about

00:16:02.540 Comey.

00:16:03.160 Is that correct?

00:16:03.900 That you won't testify here about that, because I was going to ask you if you received advice,

00:16:10.020 instruction, or requests from anyone at the White House to direct the department to engage

00:16:15.920 in any investigations, prosecutorial actions, including decisions not to investigate or prosecute

00:16:22.040 anyone.

00:16:22.500 I'm not going to discuss any conversations.

00:16:24.540 The recent episode around the indictment of James Comey left me very concerned about the

00:16:29.540 direction of the department.

00:16:30.880 James Comey is a pending case right now.

00:16:32.800 It's a pending indictment.

00:16:33.940 He was indicted by one of the most liberal grand juries in the country, and it's a pending

00:16:39.460 case.

00:16:39.920 So I'm not going to discuss the facts of a pending case.

00:16:42.340 I don't remember these two questioning Biden AG Merrick Garland about whether he spoke to

00:16:47.480 Joe Biden about indicting Donald Trump.

00:16:50.620 Maybe Garland didn't have to.

00:16:52.360 After all, Biden's push for him to do it was published in The New York Times in April 2022.

00:16:58.260 James Comey set to be arraigned later today in Alexandria, Virginia.

00:17:03.520 Several Republicans yesterday zeroing in on a new report from Just the News, revealing

00:17:09.040 special counsel Jack Smith obtained the private phone records of eight, count them, eight GOP

00:17:15.440 senators and one House member in connection with his January 6th investigation.

00:17:20.280 Senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Josh Hawley of Missouri, and Marsha Blackburn

00:17:25.640 of Tennessee all targeted, questioning AG Bondi.

00:17:29.200 Can you tell me why my phone records, when I'm the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, were

00:17:35.000 sought by the Jack Smith agents?

00:17:38.760 Why did they ask to know who I called and what I was doing from January 4th to the 7th?

00:17:45.880 Can you tell me that?

00:17:47.280 No, Senator.

00:17:48.180 And there were eight senators in total.

00:17:50.800 Let's look at it.

00:17:51.620 We've got a list.

00:17:52.740 Tap my phone.

00:17:54.020 Tap Lindsey Graham's phone.

00:17:55.620 Tap Marsha Blackburn's phone.

00:17:57.260 Tap five other phones of United States senators.

00:18:00.700 Gee, it sure looks like targeting political opponents to me.

00:18:04.240 We don't know what all they got.

00:18:07.100 We don't know who all they tracked.

00:18:09.660 But to tap our phones, to pull that data, for these wireless companies to have allowed

00:18:17.920 them to have that, and for them to use it in their investigations.

00:18:24.480 How disgusting.

00:18:26.560 Ms. Bondi would not confirm or deny whether there is an active investigation into that

00:18:31.260 discovery, but calling the matter one of great concern.

00:18:34.280 Senator Blackburn, the weaponization against you and your colleagues should greatly concern

00:18:42.160 all of us.

00:18:43.320 It should concern Democrats.

00:18:44.460 It should concern Republicans.

00:18:46.300 Yet, we don't see that.

00:18:47.700 There was a two-tier system of justice under the Biden administration.

00:18:51.980 We're learning that every day.

00:18:54.060 We saw Jack Smith weaponize the Justice Department against Donald Trump.

00:18:59.260 We saw the Biden administration weaponize the entire Justice Department, all of the law

00:19:06.540 enforcement agencies against Donald Trump, against his family members, against his friends

00:19:11.860 for years and years.

00:19:14.260 And that weaponization is over.

00:19:17.240 No one is above the law.

00:19:19.000 And there is a one-tier system of justice in this Justice Department.

00:19:25.780 And that'll do it for your AM Update.

00:19:27.900 I'm Megan Kelly.

00:19:28.640 Join me back here for The Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Triumph Channel 111 at Noon

00:19:33.120 East, on YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly, and on all podcast platforms.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 08, 2025

SCOTUS Hears ＂Affirm Only＂ Therapy Arguments, AG Bondi Clashes with Dems over DOJ： AM Update 10⧸8

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