The Megyn Kelly Show - Secretary of State Marco Rubio on Buying Greenland, His Trip to Panama, and How to End the Russia-Ukraine War ｜ Ep. 995

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:12.220 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.320 Today, our exclusive interview with the 72nd Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.

00:00:21.480 This is his first long-form sit-down.

00:00:23.960 He said it was his first interview since taking on the new role just over one week ago.

00:00:29.560 Of all the Trump 2.0 nominees, he's the only one so far who gained, I mean, entirely bipartisan support,

00:00:36.660 passing unanimously by the Senate with a 99-0 vote, and as the only nominee to receive a vote on day one of the second Trump administration.

00:00:46.240 On the eve of his first foreign trip as Secretary of State, interestingly, to Panama, we get into everything.

00:00:54.500 We go to Greenland, we talk China, we talk Iran, Israel, and we do get into the deep state. Enjoy.

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00:01:59.800 Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for doing this.

00:02:01.820 Thank you. It still feels weird to hear that, but thank you.

00:02:03.640 It does, right? You're a week in now?

00:02:05.960 Eight days, but I'm not counting. I'm just saying it's been eight days.

00:02:08.360 Yeah, eight, nine days.

00:02:10.080 There's so much I want to go over, like the change between the Senate and here, how you're, you know, what's it like to be at the heart of the deep state?

00:02:17.100 But let me start with the plane crash.

00:02:19.940 Yeah.

00:02:20.280 It's so awful.

00:02:21.200 It is. It's horrible.

00:02:22.140 I mean, just from a human standpoint of it, to think these are people that were, I mean, they were landing.

00:02:26.380 I mean, we've all been on these planes.

00:02:27.420 You're getting ready to land.

00:02:28.280 You're excited.

00:02:28.860 You're getting ready to go.

00:02:29.680 Maybe your phone's already connecting because you're ready to get on the ground,

00:02:32.240 and then something like this comes out of the blue, and it's a horrible tragedy.

00:02:35.740 And we don't forget that there were service members involved in this as well who lost their lives in this terrible accident.

00:02:41.540 Obviously, it's not a State Department function, but the key to these is first to honor those who have passed and understand the pain of these families.

00:02:48.940 The second is to figure out why this happened so that it never happens again.

00:02:52.880 This is a very busy airport, and there's a lot of traffic going in and out through the city.

00:02:57.600 But it's just heartbreaking, and I'm sure as we hear the individual stories of the people involved, we'll be even sadder.

00:03:03.480 Does it underscore at all why President Trump needs his nominees confirmed quickly?

00:03:08.100 Yeah, especially on the response part of it, right?

00:03:10.020 I mean, so ultimately, there was a failure here at some point.

00:03:12.500 Like, helicopters and airplanes are not supposed to crash into each other in the capital of the United States at one of the busiest airports in the country.

00:03:18.940 This isn't supposed to happen.

00:03:20.220 So it happened for a reason, and someone needs to lead a process that figures out why, and then you need to lead a process to make sure it doesn't happen again.

00:03:26.780 And look, it happened here.

00:03:27.640 It could have happened in some other city too.

00:03:30.100 And so you need to have someone at the head of these departments that are in charge of this.

00:03:33.960 And it may be multiple departments because it's going to involve DOD.

00:03:37.520 It's going to involve the Department of Transportation, but it may involve other elements of the U.S. government.

00:03:41.960 And you need to have somebody running the agencies or they will not be.

00:03:44.920 You're just not going to get the same responsibilities without that.

00:03:46.800 Yeah, God forbid we had something happen on an international basis.

00:03:49.820 You're installed, but Tulsi's, you know, that could take a while.

00:03:53.000 And there's been a little foot dragging.

00:03:55.380 All right, so you've been in the job now for eight days.

00:03:57.600 What's the biggest difference between being a U.S. senator and being the secretary of state?

00:04:01.140 Well, two things.

00:04:01.760 First of all, my boss, President Trump, is a person that moves very quickly.

00:04:06.720 I'll give you a perfect example.

00:04:07.920 This weekend we had a disagreement, not with Colombia, with the president of Colombia, who at four something in the morning decided to turn around flights that he had agreed to.

00:04:17.400 We have it in writing.

00:04:18.240 They agreed.

00:04:18.720 These are Colombian nationals illegally in the United States.

00:04:22.300 And they have, I mean, under international agreements, they have to take back their nationals.

00:04:25.660 And they agreed to it.

00:04:26.400 At 4.30 in the morning, he, for whatever reason, was either awake or about to go to bed.

00:04:31.220 And he decided to go on X and write that he had ordered that one plane was halfway there and the other had just taken off and ordered them turned around.

00:04:38.740 And so in a traditional administration, it would have taken about two and a half years to react to it.

00:04:44.480 It would have gone through all this and all these policy options.

00:04:47.060 With President Trump, it happened within a matter of hours.

00:04:49.240 It was very quick.

00:04:49.900 And so the ability to execute on action, on directives, is a big difference between being in the Senate.

00:04:55.380 The Senate, the House, play a very important role.

00:04:57.960 But it doesn't have the executive role.

00:05:00.120 And the executive part of it is the one that I think is the biggest difference, the ability to see a problem and under our authorities address it.

00:05:07.520 And when you're working for someone like President Trump, it's going to happen very quickly.

00:05:11.260 There's not going to be a lot of debate.

00:05:12.440 You know, in the wake of that plane crash, I had to wonder last night whether, you know, their predecessors from the prior administration were calling Pete Hegseth, were calling Sean Duffy.

00:05:23.440 Have you spoken with Anthony Blinken at all?

00:05:25.520 Was there any sort of good tidings sent your way?

00:05:27.780 Well, it's not at the State Department.

00:05:29.260 And it's possible because when we're in our offices, we don't have our phones here in this building because for security reasons.

00:05:33.880 So it's possible they've reached out as of this morning.

00:05:36.160 But the truth of the matter is, you know, this is – well, there may be a state component if there were internationals on the flights of citizens of another country.

00:05:45.340 You know, we obviously would notify their embassy or consulate because their families and loved ones for that notification.

00:05:51.380 But I would expect that at DOD because obviously that was the Department of Defense.

00:05:55.360 That was a military helicopter.

00:05:56.820 Three service members have lost their lives.

00:05:58.660 And then most certainly in Department of Transportation because they have the primary jurisdiction over the FAA and the broader, you know, airplane safety challenges.

00:06:07.200 But what about just since you took the job?

00:06:08.900 Is there – is like – does he give you a letter in the way that Biden left him for drop?

00:06:12.200 He left a very nice note and, you know, basically said, welcome to the best job in the world and I'm here to help anything you need.

00:06:19.480 And it's – like I said, it's a really important job.

00:06:22.620 It needs to become even more important.

00:06:23.980 The State Department, in my view, over the years has become less and less relevant in the making of foreign policy for a variety of reasons, not because there aren't talented people in the State Department.

00:06:35.500 There are.

00:06:35.980 And I've known that from the past interacting with them, but because it moved too slowly, because it took too long to action, because you gave a directive and it took so long for the State Department to do something because of internal processes or whatever that largely administrations would start to work around the State Department.

00:06:51.620 And I want the State Department to be relevant again.

00:06:53.580 I want it to be at the center of foreign policymaking.

00:06:58.320 And so that's – by providing advice to the president, who ultimately makes the decision about what we're going to do.

00:07:04.760 So it's a great job.

00:07:07.200 And I tell you, it's not just the position, but to be Secretary of State for Donald Trump is a great job because, you know, you're not going to be wasting a lot of time.

00:07:15.320 Once the decision's made, you're going to get to act.

00:07:16.840 It's such a tricky time to be Secretary of State, especially as a Republican, because you look at the Republican Party and it's fractured internally about where we should be on foreign policy.

00:07:28.040 It's not like during the Bush years where it was, you know, we were much more neo-conny on the right.

00:07:32.980 And now there's a real division within the right, within MAGA even, on how – what should we do about Ukraine?

00:07:40.040 There's – most of the party, I think, wants nothing to do with that anymore.

00:07:43.280 How – what kind of saber-rattling should we be doing about Iran? 0.60

00:07:46.720 You know, there's a large strain that believes none.

00:07:49.360 We should be focused on China and we should stop demonizing Iran and Russia and keep our eye on our biggest threat. 0.91

00:07:54.740 I know you think they're our biggest threat as well.

00:07:56.680 So how – just give me the 30,000-foot level view of how you're going to navigate that fraction.

00:08:03.020 Well, I think we spend a lot of time in American politics debating tactics, like what we're going to do, who we're going to sanction, what letter we're going to send or whatever.

00:08:10.020 I think it really has to start with strategy.

00:08:11.720 What is the strategic objective?

00:08:13.380 What's the purpose, the mission?

00:08:14.480 And I think the mission of American foreign policy – and this may sound sort of obvious, but I think it's been lost.

00:08:20.180 The interest of American foreign policy is to further the national interest of the United States of America, right?

00:08:25.420 America first.

00:08:26.340 Well, and that's the way the world has always worked.

00:08:28.300 The way the world has always worked is that the Chinese will do what's in the best interest of China.

00:08:31.940 The Russians will do what's in the best interest of Russia.

00:08:34.680 You know, the Chileans are going to do what's in the best interest of Chile.

00:08:37.260 And the United States needs to do what's in the best interest of the United States.

00:08:40.700 Where our interests align, that's where you have partnerships and alliances.

00:08:44.480 Where our differences are not aligned, that is where the job of diplomacy is to prevent conflict while still furthering our national interest and understanding they're going to further theirs.

00:08:54.520 And that's been lost.

00:08:55.660 And I think that was lost at the end of the Cold War because we were the only power in the world.

00:08:59.160 And so we assume this responsibility of sort of becoming the global government in many cases, trying to solve every problem.

00:09:05.860 And there are terrible things happening in the world.

00:09:07.720 There are.

00:09:08.600 And then there are things that are terrible that impact our national interest directly.

00:09:12.940 And we need to prioritize those again.

00:09:15.540 So it's not normal for the world to simply have a unipolar power.

00:09:19.740 That was not – that was an anomaly.

00:09:21.220 It was the product of the end of the Cold War.

00:09:23.120 But eventually you were going to reach back to a point where you had a multipolar world, multi-great powers in different parts of the planet.

00:09:30.900 We face that now with China and to some extent, you know, Russia.

00:09:34.380 And then you have rogue states like Iran and North Korea you have to deal with.

00:09:37.620 So now more than ever, we need to remember that foreign policy should always be about furthering the national interest of the United States and doing so to the extent possible, avoiding war and armed conflict, which we have seen two times in the last century be very costly.

00:09:53.740 You know, they're celebrating the 80th anniversary this year of the end of the Second World War.

00:09:59.180 You know, that – I think if you look at the scale and scope of destruction and loss of life that occurred, it would be far worse if we had a global conflict now.

00:10:08.780 It may end life on the planet.

00:10:09.980 I mean, it sounds like hyperbole, but that's – you have multiple countries now who have the capability to end life on Earth.

00:10:16.640 And so we need to really work hard to avoid armed conflict as much as possible, but never at the expense of our national interest.

00:10:23.760 So that's the tricky balance.

00:10:24.860 So I think returning us to that, now you can have a framework by which you analyze not just diplomacy but foreign aid and who we line up with and the return of pragmatism.

00:10:35.720 And that's not an abandonment of our principles.

00:10:37.500 I'm not a fan or a giddy supporter of some horrifying human rights violator somewhere in the world.

00:10:43.820 By the same token, diplomacy has always required us and foreign policy has always required us to work in the national interest, sometimes in cooperation with people who we wouldn't invite over for dinner or people who we wouldn't necessarily ever want to be led by.

00:10:59.580 And so that's a balance.

00:11:00.780 But it's the sort of pragmatic and mature balance we have to have in foreign policy.

00:11:04.060 How do you think we did in the last administration?

00:11:07.780 Because Jake Sullivan, former national security advisor, now former, under Joe Biden said,

00:11:12.380 our alliances are now stronger as they left office.

00:11:15.220 Our adversaries and our competitors are weaker.

00:11:17.460 Russia's weaker.

00:11:18.240 Iran's weaker.

00:11:19.080 China's weaker.

00:11:20.180 And all the while, we kept America out of wars.

00:11:22.400 What's your response to that?

00:11:23.380 Well, a couple points.

00:11:24.380 The first is – and we're looking forward and moving forward, but we have to analyze where we stand and the world that we inherited.

00:11:29.400 And I would disagree with that assessment.

00:11:30.900 I think it really begins because the Biden administration, from my view, had internal fractures between State Department and the National Security Council, between different elements of their party.

00:11:39.960 You saw that come to fruition, for example, with our position on Israel, where you had a group that wanted to head in a different direction.

00:11:46.900 That's really a fracture within the Democratic Party as well.

00:11:49.320 If you look around the world, I would say that in many cases, our adversaries are stronger than they've ever been and became stronger over the last four years.

00:11:58.920 Certainly, Russia does not consider itself weaker than it were four years ago.

00:12:02.360 They now control territory they didn't have when Donald Trump left office.

00:12:06.180 I think if you look at the Middle East, we had the outbreak of a war that's been incredibly costly and divisive.

00:12:12.100 It started on October 7th when these savages came across and committed these atrocities.

00:12:17.160 We have a war in Europe as well, in Ukraine, as I mentioned a moment ago.

00:12:21.740 So we had the – and I think really one of the linchpins that sort of triggered all of that was that chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan.

00:12:28.820 I think that sent a very clear signal to someone like Vladimir Putin that America was actually in decline or distracted.

00:12:35.640 We can move.

00:12:36.280 And he did.

00:12:36.780 I think you see it in the Indo-Pacific.

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00:13:37.000 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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00:14:36.460 It's not just Taiwan.

00:14:42.020 It's the Philippines are being aggressively challenged by the Chinese militarily, where

00:14:47.280 coercion is spreading throughout the world.

00:14:49.120 The Chinese are using coercive tactics, not just in their near abroad, but in other parts 1.00

00:14:53.920 of the world as well.

00:14:55.620 So I don't agree with that assessment.

00:14:58.000 I think we have a lot of work to do.

00:14:59.700 And I'm going to tell you, and this is something that's not often appreciated enough, countries

00:15:03.840 will openly complain about the U.S. being very firm and being engaged in these things

00:15:09.220 in a very firm way.

00:15:10.540 But privately, in many cases, they welcome it.

00:15:12.940 They welcome U.S. engagement.

00:15:14.420 They want clarity in our foreign policy.

00:15:17.240 And then they want us to take action to be reliable.

00:15:19.500 And I know of no president, certainly in modern American history, who's more clear than Donald

00:15:24.580 Trump.

00:15:25.060 And I know of no one who's more action-oriented than President Trump.

00:15:28.360 And so that's what the State Department is going to reflect in how we proceed.

00:15:31.820 I'm just wondering, as I listen to you, whether you think Joe Biden's mental infirmity, which

00:15:36.300 we all witnessed, especially during his last year in office, cost us anything with these

00:15:41.720 adversaries.

00:15:42.540 Yeah, look, both adversaries and allies analyze everything, just as we do, right?

00:15:47.720 We would watch foreign leaders and how they behave and make decisions upon that.

00:15:51.880 And there's no doubt that foreign adversaries are going to look at how our leaders, not

00:15:56.600 just presidents, but anybody else, react and make assumptions on the basis of it.

00:16:00.820 And sometimes, you know, look, China's perception of America, this is China's perception of the

00:16:05.960 world.

00:16:06.520 China's perception of the world is that they are inevitably going to be the world's greatest

00:16:11.300 power.

00:16:11.940 By 2035, 2050, whatever date they've set in their mind, they believe that they're on an irreversible

00:16:16.920 rise.

00:16:17.560 And we are an inevitable decline, that the West at large, but the U.S. in specific,

00:16:23.340 is a tired, spent, former great power in inevitable decline.

00:16:28.120 And they believe that foreign policy is about managing our decline and their rise, and they

00:16:31.880 want nothing to interrupt it.

00:16:33.780 That's how they view the West writ large in the United States in particular.

00:16:38.700 And so anytime our leaders sort of personify their vision of our problems, it only further

00:16:46.040 cements that belief that they have, and frankly, invites them to do things that perhaps they

00:16:50.320 wouldn't do if they have a different calculus of us.

00:16:52.660 And by that logic, we got safer the day Trump was inaugurated.

00:16:55.960 There's no doubt.

00:16:56.500 I've seen it.

00:16:56.980 I mean, I'm telling you that if you look at what happened with Colombia, you know, generally

00:17:01.180 speaking, if a leader had said, I'm going to turn back these planes, I'm not going to

00:17:04.720 take them, we would have sent a note, a demarche to call it, you know, complaining about it.

00:17:08.800 And we would have then had a high-level outreach back and forth, and we would have figured this

00:17:12.640 out, and it would have taken six weeks or what have you.

00:17:14.800 In this particular case, we presented President Trump with options.

00:17:18.520 He immediately took action.

00:17:20.500 And the Black Channels existed.

00:17:22.340 There was a lot of conversation with other figures in the Colombian government who had

00:17:26.660 agreed to this, and were trying to figure out a path to get us right.

00:17:29.140 But it didn't take six weeks or six months.

00:17:31.180 It took six hours.

00:17:32.020 Were they shocked when Trump sent out his tweet?

00:17:34.720 Shocked?

00:17:37.420 No, I don't think they were shocked.

00:17:38.960 I think it reaffirmed what they believe about him, and that is that this is not a traditional

00:17:43.060 sort of orthodox American president who is going to be tangled up by interagency, you

00:17:51.580 know, impediments in our government.

00:17:54.400 This is someone who's action-oriented and is going to do things, actually going to do what

00:17:57.340 he says.

00:17:57.960 So, yeah, I mean, I don't think they were shocked.

00:18:01.020 I think it was a good reminder.

00:18:02.800 And look, I want to be clear, most of the people in the Colombian government are friendly

00:18:07.120 to the United States.

00:18:08.000 They were horrified about what was happening.

00:18:09.860 I mean, there were leaders of their congressional branch over there that were putting messages

00:18:14.540 on X like, this is crazy. 0.99

00:18:16.140 Our president's a nutcase. 0.97

00:18:17.440 I mean, they were writing that. 0.99

00:18:18.300 That's their internal politics.

00:18:19.320 But I think it reaffirms what a lot of leaders believe about America under Donald Trump, and

00:18:24.400 that is we are led by someone who is not very mysterious.

00:18:28.040 He's going to tell you what he's going to do, and he'll actually do it.

00:18:30.440 And I think foreign policy works a lot better when you're led by someone like that.

00:18:33.940 Now, does that make your job easier then?

00:18:36.640 Easier, no doubt.

00:18:37.460 So you can just say, hey, look, the boss has said exactly how he feels.

00:18:40.220 Believe him.

00:18:40.760 Yeah.

00:18:40.780 I mean, I think oftentimes people think there's posturing going on.

00:18:43.600 Well, they don't really mean this, or they're not really going to do it.

00:18:45.920 I think in my particular case, I don't have to make that argument, right?

00:18:49.020 I mean, I think they understand it.

00:18:51.120 I think it's also a lot of – every conversation I've had with foreign leaders, to the extent

00:18:54.940 it's been conflictive or that we've had areas of conflict to talk about, I've been very

00:18:58.960 clear in that is, look, I expect you to do what you're doing because you're acting in

00:19:03.080 your national interest.

00:19:04.160 And I know you've gotten used to a foreign policy in which you act in the national interest

00:19:07.900 of your country, and we sort of act in the interest of the globe, of the global order.

00:19:13.480 But we're led by a different kind of person now, and under President Trump, we're going

00:19:17.940 to do what you do.

00:19:19.020 And one of the terms that President Trump loves is reciprocity.

00:19:22.580 And it's very simple, but I think people would understand it.

00:19:25.320 If you charge us a 50% tariff for an American product to enter your country, we should charge 0.62

00:19:30.440 you a 50% tariff here, maybe 55.

00:19:34.220 You know, President Trump likes to have leverage too.

00:19:36.920 And who would not argue that that's not fair?

00:19:40.060 And how can you argue against it?

00:19:41.440 But that's been our policy in many cases.

00:19:44.020 In country after country around the world, we have no access to their markets, but their

00:19:47.820 products have open and free access to ours.

00:19:50.500 How can that continue?

00:19:51.800 That's absurd.

00:19:53.100 I think anybody who has common sense would argue that.

00:19:56.140 Frankly, I think a lot of these leaders have been wondering why it took us so long to figure

00:19:59.240 that out.

00:19:59.860 But under President Trump, they know we have.

00:20:01.600 The New York Times said, OK, you guys got away with this with Colombia, but you're not

00:20:07.720 going to be able to pull that trick with Russia, with China, with Iran.

00:20:12.080 If you try to sort of bully these stronger nations in this way, it's not going to go very

00:20:16.480 well.

00:20:16.860 Is that a fair point?

00:20:17.500 Well, we're not interested in bullying anybody.

00:20:18.840 And we don't feel like we bullied Colombia.

00:20:20.600 We feel like we had a deal.

00:20:21.880 Colombia signed a deal.

00:20:23.040 They signed a piece of paper that said, yes, send us these airplanes.

00:20:25.580 And then halfway into the flight, they broke it.

00:20:27.300 And so our answer was, well, now we flew these planes.

00:20:30.840 We had to bring them back to the United States. 0.90

00:20:32.840 So now you're going to come pick them up.

00:20:34.520 Why are we going to pay for those flights?

00:20:35.760 Because you canceled them.

00:20:36.640 It's not bullying.

00:20:37.460 It's they broke a contract that we had made with them.

00:20:40.360 Obviously, look, China has nuclear weapons.

00:20:42.120 They're tough people.

00:20:42.840 There's no doubt about it.

00:20:43.660 They're tough people.

00:20:44.420 They have nuclear weapons.

00:20:45.260 They're a great power with a large economy.

00:20:47.240 They're going to be a global power, but it can't come at our expense.

00:20:50.780 And so ultimately, when you're dealing with great powers like China, it's going to be at

00:20:54.040 the highest levels of their president and ours, their premieres.

00:20:57.300 And ours and our president.

00:20:59.200 And that interaction will happen in the case of Russia, the same.

00:21:01.980 Obviously, there's going to be whatever happens with Russia will be a Putin-Trump dynamic.

00:21:06.820 But I think most certainly, sure.

00:21:08.960 I mean, the world is the way you do treat, not the way you treat countries, but the way

00:21:13.300 you approach a nation has to be based on the strategic balance.

00:21:17.720 But I don't view that we bullied Colombia, nor do I think these articles about, oh, they're

00:21:21.440 going to turn to China.

00:21:22.220 That's absurd.

00:21:23.020 That's an absurd argument.

00:21:24.080 I think the overwhelming majority of people in Colombia, a country I know very well, don't

00:21:29.200 even like their president.

00:21:30.360 I mean, this guy had an election today.

00:21:31.440 He'd lose.

00:21:32.440 Well, he'd lose.

00:21:33.000 I mean, he's unpopular in Colombia.

00:21:34.440 I mean, that's not up to us.

00:21:35.700 People there will get to vote, and they'll decide who they want to lead them.

00:21:38.560 But I think a lot of their people in their business class are like, what's this guy

00:21:41.280 doing?

00:21:41.580 This is absurd.

00:21:42.220 I mean, it's normal that you would, we were deporting people to Colombia, just like we

00:21:48.560 deport people to every country in the world.

00:21:49.880 And by the way, if there are illegal American immigrants in another country, we would have 0.97

00:21:52.880 to accept them coming this way.

00:21:54.520 So I don't pay a lot of it.

00:21:57.520 Most of the people, unfortunately, that opine on, the more I have been delved into foreign

00:22:03.100 policy, and the more I read people who claim to know about foreign policy, the more I realize

00:22:07.200 that a lot of the people we believe are experts have no idea what they're talking about.

00:22:11.080 There's a large delta.

00:22:12.620 What about, you mentioned China.

00:22:14.280 Did you recently have a call with the foreign minister?

00:22:18.680 And there was a report that you were, you received a sort of warning that you needed

00:22:22.440 to basically watch.

00:22:23.080 Yeah, somebody told me that, and that's two things that the game that they play.

00:22:26.080 Number one is they put out an English translation, and they put out a Chinese translation, and

00:22:29.580 they don't always overlap.

00:22:31.160 The call was very straightforward, and I basically said, you're acting in the best interest of

00:22:34.680 China.

00:22:35.000 We're going to act in the best interest of America.

00:22:37.060 We're two great powers, and in areas where we can work together, there's

00:22:41.000 probably no problem in the world we couldn't solve working together.

00:22:44.140 In areas where we have disagreements, we have a responsibility to manage it so it doesn't

00:22:48.140 escalate into something catastrophic, but be clear that we're going to do these things.

00:22:52.600 I did not, at least the translator that was on the call, did not say anything to me that

00:22:57.320 I felt was over the top.

00:22:58.960 But then they put out these games.

00:23:00.120 They like to play these games.

00:23:01.040 They put out these translations where it says one thing in English, and then it's translated

00:23:05.100 in a different, they use a different term in Mandarin.

00:23:07.520 So he was warned not to overstep himself.

00:23:09.860 They never said that, and if they had, I would have told them, well, I would say the

00:23:13.280 same to you.

00:23:13.740 Don't overstep either.

00:23:15.380 But that didn't happen, at least not on the call, or at least maybe their interpreter didn't

00:23:18.700 want to interpret it that way.

00:23:19.980 But that was not the readout we got. 0.95

00:23:21.700 But it's silly and irrespective and irrelevant.

00:23:24.620 What really matters is the decisions we make moving forward.

00:23:27.660 And China wants to be the most powerful country in the world, and they want to do so at our

00:23:31.020 expense.

00:23:31.900 And that's not in our national interest.

00:23:33.480 And we're going to address it.

00:23:34.480 We don't want a war over it, but we're going to address it.

00:23:38.320 Well, that brings us, and we have more on China, but that brings us to Panama, where

00:23:41.940 you're about to go.

00:23:43.340 And China's obviously playing a role down there, and is one of the reasons why Trump has been

00:23:46.880 saying, President Trump has been saying, we want the canal back.

00:23:49.440 We never intended to give it to the Chinese.

00:23:52.080 That was never the game plan.

00:23:53.900 They don't technically control the Panama Canal, but they do have interest down there.

00:23:58.720 Can you explain it?

00:23:59.620 Yeah, so they're all over Panama.

00:24:01.240 A few years ago, Panama made a decision that they were going to de-recognize Taiwan and

00:24:05.320 align with Beijing.

00:24:08.700 And with that came all sorts of money that was provided to the then president's administration

00:24:14.000 for projects and things of that nature, but also Chinese investment.

00:24:18.220 And one of the main investments they have is in these two port facilities on both sides

00:24:23.180 of the canal and all kinds of other infrastructure, cranes and the like.

00:24:26.860 And so people will argue, well, that's not China.

00:24:29.880 That's a company based in Hong Kong.

00:24:31.940 Well, a company based in Hong Kong is the government of China.

00:24:34.720 You are not a company in China if the Chinese government doesn't control you.

00:24:38.560 It's similar to the argument about ByteDance and TikTok, which is every company that operates

00:24:44.860 from China or Hong Kong, which is controlled by China, more than ever controlled by China.

00:24:50.300 It's no longer autonomous.

00:24:51.340 Because they have to do whatever the government tells them.

00:24:54.060 And if the government of China in a conflict tells them, shut down the Panama Canal, they

00:24:57.720 will have to.

00:24:58.540 And in fact, I have zero doubt that they have contingency planning to do so.

00:25:02.260 That is a direct threat.

00:25:03.760 So it's a technicality.

00:25:05.480 But in reality, if China wanted to obstruct traffic in the Panama Canal, they could.

00:25:11.180 That's a fact.

00:25:11.840 And it's my view.

00:25:12.580 That's a violation of the treaty agreement.

00:25:14.400 And that's what President Trump is raising.

00:25:15.940 And we're going to address that topic.

00:25:17.400 It's one of deep concern.

00:25:18.420 That dynamic cannot continue, not simply because we built it at great cost in lives and treasure,

00:25:24.060 but because it is contrary to our national interest.

00:25:28.120 It is not in the national interest of the United States to have a canal we paid for and

00:25:32.480 we built used as a leverage and a weapon against us.

00:25:36.380 That can't happen.

00:25:37.320 So what's the solution?

00:25:39.080 Well, that's what we're going to have to talk about.

00:25:40.560 And I think the president's pretty clear he wants to administer the canal again.

00:25:44.160 Obviously, the Panamanians are not big fans of that idea.

00:25:46.560 But we're, you know, that message has been brought very clear.

00:25:49.280 And there are a lot of other areas we can work very closely with Panama on.

00:25:52.460 I mean, their government generally is pro-American on a number of fronts.

00:25:56.240 But this is a core national interest for us.

00:25:58.420 We can work together on a lot of things.

00:25:59.820 And there are a lot of things we can work with them on that are very positive on migration.

00:26:03.000 And they can be very helpful on all sorts of things.

00:26:05.340 And I hope we'll get resolution to those very soon.

00:26:07.680 But that does not in any way replace the core reality that the Panama Canal, we cannot allow any foreign power, particularly China, to hold that kind of potential control over that they do.

00:26:20.080 That just can't continue.

00:26:21.180 But what could they do?

00:26:22.320 I mean, are they these, you know, Chinese control or Chinese businesses along the canal, very large ones that could easily be turned into military facilities? 0.83

00:26:29.580 Do they have to get rid of them?

00:26:31.040 Do they have to?

00:26:31.660 Like, what are the kinds of things we could ask for that would satisfy us?

00:26:34.940 With Hong Kong-based companies having control over the entry and exit points of the canal is completely unacceptable.

00:26:41.680 That cannot continue.

00:26:42.920 Because if there is a conflict and China tells them, do everything you can to obstruct the canal so that the U.S. can't engage in trade and commerce, so that the U.S. military and naval fleet cannot get to the Indo-Pacific fast enough, they would have to do it.

00:26:57.120 They would have to do it.

00:26:58.260 And they would do it.

00:26:59.120 And now we have a major problem on our hands.

00:27:01.180 That's number one.

00:27:01.880 And number two, we have to talk about the fact that we built this thing.

00:27:05.340 We paid for it.

00:27:06.640 Thousands of people died doing this.

00:27:08.680 Americans.

00:27:09.800 And somehow our naval vessels who go through there and American shipping that goes through there pays rates, some cases higher than other countries are paying.

00:27:18.740 Or, you know, for example, a vessel from China.

00:27:21.800 That's also not acceptable.

00:27:23.800 It was a terrible deal when it was made.

00:27:25.720 It should never have been allowed.

00:27:26.740 They're going to tell you that it's set by an independent administrative entity and not the government.

00:27:32.580 That's their internal problem.

00:27:33.800 They'll have to figure that out.

00:27:34.680 But we should not be in a position of having to pay more than other countries.

00:27:37.680 In fact, we should be getting a discount or maybe for free because we paid for the thing.

00:27:41.980 There, too, like you mentioned with Colombia, is there a risk if we play too hardball, we drive them into the arms of the Chinese? 1.00

00:27:49.260 Well, I would argue that the canal is already in the arms of the Chinese. 1.00

00:27:52.320 So, I mean, that's one aspect, I would say.

00:27:55.160 And we can't operate that way.

00:27:56.680 Like, we can't operate in the world saying, well, we can't defend our national interest because if not, these countries will turn to China against us.

00:28:04.460 I mean, we wouldn't allow that to happen.

00:28:06.120 It would be against our national interest.

00:28:08.160 So, but that said, I hope we don't get to that point, right?

00:28:11.100 We have a, on so many topics, have a very good working relationship with Panama and with their government.

00:28:16.840 And I want that to continue.

00:28:18.300 But we have a core national interest that's at stake.

00:28:20.380 They should understand that.

00:28:21.400 And I think that they will understand that.

00:28:24.460 And it needs to be addressed.

00:28:25.820 And we'll do that.

00:28:26.500 We'll do it in the right form.

00:28:27.560 We'll do it appropriately.

00:28:28.580 I'm not here to, we're not here to embarrass anyone or cause internal friction or problems for them.

00:28:33.080 But I can assure you if it was the other way around and that was a canal that the Chinese had built, they would be very forceful about it. 0.99

00:28:39.520 So we can no longer operate in the world with two hands tied behind our back.

00:28:43.020 People need to understand that Panama is not exactly about Panama.

00:28:45.700 It's about the Chinese, which you've been jumping up and down about for a while, warning that people may not realize just how grave the threat is. 1.00

00:28:53.420 And you said something I think was at your confirmation hearing to the effect of if China gets what it wants in 10 years or so, life could look very different.

00:29:02.660 Like it could be dramatic for us, for America.

00:29:04.980 So, I mean, they can, today control, I mean, we love our technology and we need it for all kinds of advances.

00:29:10.220 All of that depends on critical minerals at the end of the day, ranging aluminum, cobalt, you name it.

00:29:16.060 They have gone around the world buying up mining rights and they control not just the mining of it, but the refining and the production of it and the use of it for industrial purposes.

00:29:26.220 So, I remember during COVID, everybody was freaking out because we couldn't get the masks because they were all made in China. 1.00

00:29:31.620 And then we couldn't get this because they were all made in China. 0.81

00:29:33.960 We had lost and given away our industrial capacity.

00:29:36.620 This is even graver.

00:29:37.820 This is the rare earth minerals.

00:29:39.940 This is the raw materials necessary for some of the things that go into our most advanced technologies in the defense realm and in medicine.

00:29:49.020 Eighty-something percent of the active ingredients and generic pharmaceuticals in the United States are made in China.

00:29:54.560 We can't make them.

00:29:55.420 So, if they decide we're going to cut you off from these things, we'd be in a lot of trouble because we gave away our industrial capacity on those things.

00:30:02.740 That can't continue.

00:30:03.960 That's a vulnerability that we face.

00:30:05.440 And they will use it as leverage.

00:30:06.740 In fact, they are already using it as leverage.

00:30:09.060 For the first time ever, they have actually imposed export controls on critical minerals to damage our national security, but ultimately our technological capacity as well.

00:30:21.760 So, it ranges topics, but ultimately, if China controls the means of production for both raw material and industry, then they have total leverage on us economically.

00:30:33.140 And that's the world we're headed to.

00:30:34.320 And I was wrong.

00:30:34.920 Maybe not in 10 years.

00:30:35.740 Maybe in five.

00:30:36.320 So, I mean, it's a dicey situation.

00:30:39.700 Trump, President Trump knows all this.

00:30:41.380 Yes.

00:30:41.560 And yet, one of the top Chinese leaders attended his inauguration.

00:30:45.180 He understands that it has to be played very carefully.

00:30:47.900 We don't want to make an open hot war enemy out of them, but we've been passive for too long.

00:30:53.520 Yeah.

00:30:53.820 First of all, one of the interesting things about President Trump is he's incredibly accessible.

00:30:58.740 People don't believe this, but, I mean, if you're a rank and file, not even leadership member of Congress, and you call the president of the United States, the chances are you're going to get a call back.

00:31:08.940 And you're going to get a call back from him.

00:31:10.300 And you might get a call back that very day, maybe within an hour or two.

00:31:13.480 He's incredibly accessible to both Americans and also to foreign leaders.

00:31:17.460 His policies generally have been, I'll meet with any world leader.

00:31:19.820 You know, I'll engage with any world leader.

00:31:22.080 That doesn't mean just because you're meeting with him you're giving anything away, but he's willing to engage.

00:31:26.720 In the case of China, there's two things.

00:31:28.600 I've just described one, which is the grave threat that they pose to our national interests.

00:31:32.980 And the other is the mature realization that no matter what happens, China is going to be a rich and powerful country.

00:31:38.400 We are going to have to deal with them.

00:31:39.620 In fact, and I said this in my call with their foreign minister, but I've said this publicly,

00:31:44.220 the future, the history of the 21st century will largely be about what happened between the U.S. and China.

00:31:50.960 So for us to pretend that somehow we're not going to engage with them is absurd.

00:31:54.940 Now, we should engage on our national interests.

00:31:58.260 That is, engagement and concessions are two different things.

00:32:01.220 What's been horrifying is that for 25 or 30 years, we've treated China as a developing country,

00:32:06.680 and we allowed them to continue to do things that were unfair.

00:32:09.140 We said, go ahead, let them cheat on trade, let them steal our technology, 0.83

00:32:13.120 because when they get rich, they'll become just like us.

00:32:15.580 They became rich, they did not become like us, and now they want to continue to have these unfair benefits.

00:32:21.160 That has to stop.

00:32:22.100 And they built up their military.

00:32:23.800 Their military, their industrial capacity, but all over the world, their control of critical minerals.

00:32:29.580 Again, I go back to them because people don't think about it.

00:32:30.580 Buying up land in the United States.

00:32:31.940 Buying up farming land in the United States in particular as well,

00:32:35.000 because they need to produce food and they want to be able to control that.

00:32:37.260 They're doing it because it's in their national interest.

00:32:39.480 They are doing, frankly, what I would do, well, maybe not the human rights violations,

00:32:43.400 but they are doing what anyone would do if they were the leader of China.

00:32:46.300 They are acting in China's best interests.

00:32:48.280 What's been missing is American policy that acts in our best interest, and that needs to return.

00:32:53.280 How does Greenland fit into all of this?

00:32:55.480 Well, the Arctic, which has gotten very little attention,

00:32:58.600 but the Arctic circle and the Arctic region is going to become critical for shipping lanes,

00:33:02.420 for how do you get some of this energy that's going to be produced under President Trump?

00:33:06.680 These energies rely on shipping lanes.

00:33:09.200 The Arctic is some of the most valuable shipping lanes in the world.

00:33:12.240 As some of the ice is melting, it's become more and more navigable.

00:33:15.740 We need to be able to defend that.

00:33:17.340 So if you project what the Chinese have done, it is just a matter of time before, 1.00

00:33:21.400 because they are not in Arctic power.

00:33:22.880 They do not have an Arctic presence.

00:33:24.120 So they need to be able to have somewhere that they can stage from.

00:33:26.700 And it is completely realistic to believe that the Chinese will eventually, 1.00

00:33:31.800 maybe even in the short term, try to do in Greenland what they have done at the Panama Canal

00:33:36.560 and in other places, and that is install facilities that give them access to the Arctic

00:33:40.580 with the cover of a Chinese company, but that in reality serve a dual purpose,

00:33:45.400 that in a moment of conflict, they could send naval vessels to that facility and operate from there.

00:33:51.140 And that is completely unacceptable to the national security of the world and to the United States,

00:33:56.060 the security of the world and the national security of the United States.

00:33:59.120 So the question becomes, if the Chinese begin to threaten Greenland,

00:34:01.980 do we really trust that that is not a place where those deals are going to be made?

00:34:05.900 Do we really trust that that is not a place where they would not intervene?

00:34:09.380 You don't think Denmark would stop them?

00:34:12.080 I think that's been the president's point, and that is that Denmark can't stop them.

00:34:16.020 They would rely on the United States to do so.

00:34:17.800 And so his point is, if the United States is on the hook to provide, as we are now,

00:34:22.040 we have a defense agreement with them to protect Greenland if it comes under assault,

00:34:26.360 if we're already on the hook for having to do that,

00:34:29.020 then we might as well have more control over what happens there.

00:34:32.060 And so I know it's a delicate topic for Denmark,

00:34:35.200 but it's, again, a national interest item for the United States.

00:34:38.340 So there was a conference call between President Trump and the Danish prime minister.

00:34:44.400 Apparently it didn't go very well.

00:34:45.620 It reportedly involved some sort of a meltdown on the prime minister's part.

00:34:51.620 They don't want to give it up.

00:34:53.520 So what does that, what options does that leave us?

00:34:56.940 Because President Trump did not rule out economic or potentially military use.

00:35:02.980 Well, I think President Trump's, what he has said publicly is he wants to buy it.

00:35:06.800 He wants to pay for it.

00:35:07.800 And how we worked on something like that, how something like that is approached,

00:35:12.640 obviously is probably done better in the appropriate forms.

00:35:16.060 A lot of the stuff is done publicly, and it's not helpful because it puts the other side in a tough spot domestically.

00:35:20.960 So those conversations are going to happen.

00:35:22.820 But this is not a joke.

00:35:24.360 Like what he is saying is pretty accurate.

00:35:26.640 People haven't talked about it for years.

00:35:28.180 We do have, this is not about acquiring land for the purpose of acquiring land.

00:35:31.380 This is in our national interest, and it needs to be solved.

00:35:34.620 President Trump's put out there what he intends to do, which is to purchase it.

00:35:38.400 I wasn't privy to that phone call, but I imagine the phone call went the way a lot of these phone calls go,

00:35:42.920 and that is he just speaks bluntly and frankly with people.

00:35:46.120 And ultimately, I think diplomacy in many cases works better when you're straightforward

00:35:50.820 as opposed to using platitudes and language that translates to nothing.

00:35:55.040 So when President Trump said he might use economic or military coercion, what does that mean?

00:36:01.160 Well, I don't remember him saying military coercion.

00:36:03.980 He did.

00:36:04.500 He was asked, you know, what would you rule out?

00:36:06.820 Would you rule it out?

00:36:07.540 Right.

00:36:08.160 I don't think he's in the, he's, listen, he also brings to this.

00:36:11.240 He said, no, I won't rule it out.

00:36:13.100 Because he brings to this, this is a businessman who's involved in politics,

00:36:18.160 not a politician involved in politics.

00:36:20.300 So he approaches these issues from a transactional business point of view.

00:36:24.400 So he is not going to begin what he views as a negotiation or a conversation

00:36:28.380 by taking leverage off the table.

00:36:31.460 And that's a tactic that's used all the time in business.

00:36:34.660 It's being applied to foreign policy.

00:36:37.100 And I think to great effect in the first term.

00:36:38.940 You look at the Abraham Accords, and the Democrats mocked the Abraham Accords when they were made.

00:36:43.880 And then by the end of the Biden administration,

00:36:45.880 they became the linchpin of a lot of what we're hoping to build on.

00:36:49.040 That never would have happened had there not been a transactional approach.

00:36:51.780 You look at what his envoy to the Middle East, Steve Woodcoff, has achieved.

00:36:54.900 The Biden administration asked Woodcoff.

00:36:57.940 They asked for him to be involved in these conversations.

00:37:00.460 He has brought a businessman's approach to a very delicate and intractable foreign policy

00:37:05.800 challenge and delivered a ceasefire that obviously is tenuous and has long-term challenges to it.

00:37:11.280 But there are hostages being released every day.

00:37:13.420 That didn't happen for over a year and a half until he became involved.

00:37:16.300 And that's the president's envoy and very close friend who's brought the same kind of business

00:37:20.320 approach to some of these challenges.

00:37:22.540 So let's look forward four years.

00:37:24.240 Does the U.S. own Greenland?

00:37:27.460 We'll see.

00:37:28.180 I mean, obviously, that's the president's priority, and he has made that point.

00:37:30.940 I think that what I can tell you about four years without getting into specifics,

00:37:33.960 because I don't, you know, I'm not, we're not in a position yet to discuss

00:37:37.300 exactly how we'll proceed tactically.

00:37:39.380 What I think you can rest assured of is that four years from now, our interest in the Arctic

00:37:44.060 will be more secure.

00:37:45.640 Our interest in the Panama Canal will be more secure.

00:37:48.400 Our partnerships in the Western Hemisphere will be stronger, will be stronger.

00:37:52.200 We need to understand a lot of these countries in Central America, they're not destination

00:37:56.380 sites.

00:37:56.940 They are countries that migrants come through and that these human trafficking rings run

00:38:01.640 people through.

00:38:03.180 It creates tremendous instability for these countries at a tremendous cost as well.

00:38:06.900 They would welcome help in stopping that migration corridor from continuing because it's 1.00

00:38:11.820 destabilizing their countries.

00:38:13.560 So I think we're going to have a Western Hemisphere that's more secure, and our national

00:38:16.620 interest in all parts of the world, that's the goal, are going to be more secure from

00:38:19.680 the Arctic to Central America to even Africa, and certainly the Indo-Pacific.

00:38:24.360 We talked about Colombia.

00:38:25.660 That's part of President Trump's effort to shore up our borders and get rid of the illegal 1.00

00:38:30.540 aliens who came under Joe Biden.

00:38:33.380 Part of that's going to include, yes, Canada.

00:38:35.940 He's said that as well, but also, obviously, Mexico.

00:38:38.760 And President Trump is threatening to slap tariffs on both of them if they don't get in

00:38:43.520 line and start doing some of the things that we want them to do as soon as this Saturday. 0.93

00:38:48.480 They're jumping up and down saying, we want to cooperate.

00:38:51.080 Let's work diplomatically before you slap tariffs on us.

00:38:54.480 Where do you stand on that?

00:38:55.460 Well, we've had conversations with Mexican government officials.

00:38:57.860 I met yesterday with a foreign minister of Canada.

00:39:00.540 I think there are two topics, and they have to be separated, but they're interrelated.

00:39:03.620 The first is the migration, particularly with Mexico.

00:39:06.320 There are parts of Mexico, many parts of Mexico, in which the government doesn't control those

00:39:11.660 areas.

00:39:12.040 They're controlled by drug cartels.

00:39:13.320 They are the most powerful force on the ground, and they are plowing into the United 0.99

00:39:17.160 States.

00:39:18.020 They're facilitating illegal migration, but they are also bringing in fentanyl and deadly

00:39:21.980 drugs to our country.

00:39:23.400 That's a national security threat, and that needs to stop.

00:39:26.560 So we expect their cooperation on that, because they should.

00:39:29.260 If it was the other way around, they would expect that as well.

00:39:31.400 And that needs to be addressed.

00:39:34.040 Secondarily to that is the president feels that we have a trade imbalance and unfairness

00:39:38.660 with Mexico on a number of products, including agricultural products that are dumped on our

00:39:43.280 markets, but also the Chinese.

00:39:45.360 What the Chinese are now doing is they're creating these front companies. 1.00

00:39:47.820 They're investing in Mexican manufacturing and then backdooring, using the USMCA, the free 0.99

00:39:52.780 trade agreement, to get Chinese goods into America.

00:39:55.260 And so it creates this trade imbalance, and that needs to be confronted.

00:39:58.120 So when the president talks about tariffs, he talks about it on two fronts, as obviously

00:40:03.220 a leverage and pressure point when it comes to cooperation on migration.

00:40:07.360 But separate from that, it's also related to unfairness in our trade relationship.

00:40:12.060 With the Canadians, obviously, the border is one of the biggest, if not the biggest border,

00:40:15.520 land border in the world.

00:40:17.000 We share common interests there.

00:40:18.540 I think they don't want to see their country filled with fentanyl either.

00:40:20.900 I think if I were them, I'd be concerned that with the crackdown on illegal immigration in

00:40:26.540 the United States, people would flee north into Canada.

00:40:29.440 So you would think we'd be able to work with them very cooperatively on border security.

00:40:33.340 And then there's a broader trade imbalance with them that the president wants to address

00:40:37.060 as well.

00:40:38.160 And so that's why those conversations are important.

00:40:40.960 These are not hostile moves.

00:40:42.260 Are these tariffs going to kick in on Saturday?

00:40:44.100 Well, we'll see.

00:40:44.700 I mean, that's the president's decision to make.

00:40:46.200 And, you know, we'll be prepared to address it from a foreign policy perspective, whatever

00:40:51.920 decision he makes on those things.

00:40:53.300 That's his decision to make.

00:40:54.820 Whether he makes it this weekend or a week from now or a month from now, he clearly wants

00:40:58.900 to address both illegal migration, but ultimately also our economic interests.

00:41:04.060 Who is more likely to be the 51st state, Canada or Greenland?

00:41:08.520 Well, again, look, I think that, you know, we're a long ways from that point.

00:41:12.500 I think the president's made his view on this very clear.

00:41:15.440 And that is our interests in Greenland are endangered and that needs to be addressed.

00:41:19.560 And he's willing to buy it.

00:41:21.080 And our interest with Canada, particularly, you know, I think if you go back and I think

00:41:24.460 he said this publicly, he had a conversation with Trudeau and he asked Trudeau, well, what

00:41:29.180 would happen if I imposed these tariffs on you?

00:41:31.680 And he said, well, we would be done as a country.

00:41:33.540 We would be finished.

00:41:34.520 And his whole point is, well, if the only way you can survive as a country is by having

00:41:38.320 a trade imbalance with the United States, then maybe you should just become a state.

00:41:42.220 Right.

00:41:42.540 And that was the genesis of that conversation.

00:41:44.320 So we have issues that we need to address with Canada.

00:41:49.000 They're good friends.

00:41:49.720 I mean, we work with them on a lot of things.

00:41:51.040 We have a deep partnership with them.

00:41:52.780 And but there are some issues we're going to need to address.

00:41:54.980 But what are the risks to us?

00:41:56.900 Because you've got the premier of Ontario saying we can't bring a knife to a gunfight here.

00:42:01.700 If they're going to do this to us with these tariffs, we've got to fight back the same

00:42:04.580 way.

00:42:05.260 We supply them with a bunch of electricity.

00:42:07.360 Let's shut it down.

00:42:08.220 So can Canada shut our lights off?

00:42:10.620 Well, then who would they be selling it to?

00:42:12.020 Where else would they send that electricity?

00:42:13.700 I mean, it would hurt them as well.

00:42:14.780 They would have no market to sell it to.

00:42:17.200 And I would also argue that the United States and that look, that's a I don't think Canada

00:42:22.240 is a strategic threat to the United States.

00:42:24.620 I'm not comparing them to China or what have you.

00:42:26.680 But it brings to mind the point of energy independence and how critical that is.

00:42:30.540 We don't want to be in a situation.

00:42:32.020 You mentioned that about Canada.

00:42:33.220 Imagine if in the future, the argument is not Canada is threatening that.

00:42:37.080 Well, who's threatening that is China.

00:42:38.260 Who's threatening that is Russia. 0.67

00:42:39.340 I mean, one of the great mistakes that were made is by unilaterally disarming when it

00:42:43.900 comes to energy production, by not fully utilizing our energy resources in this country.

00:42:50.140 Other countries didn't follow the same line.

00:42:52.620 They, for example, China today has the largest capacity of unused, they are able to process

00:43:01.160 more oil than any country in the world right now.

00:43:03.320 They've, and they build more coal plants than anybody in the world right now.

00:43:06.780 They'll talk about green energy and batteries and cars and all, but they are using all of

00:43:11.060 the above strategy on their energy.

00:43:13.020 We've unilaterally disarmed on energy.

00:43:15.180 All they've done is continue to increase their capabilities on energy because they know you

00:43:19.660 need energy to fuel all this.

00:43:21.200 AI alone was going to require an extraordinary amount of energy that the world right now can't

00:43:25.340 produce to fuel it.

00:43:26.480 Whatever country has energy resources that are cost effective is going to dominate AI, which

00:43:30.360 is going to dominate many, many fields.

00:43:31.760 So I think at the end of the day, it's a reminder when you talk about Canada of why energy is

00:43:37.900 a national security matter and why the U.S. must be able to have a reliable and consistent

00:43:42.620 source of energy, or we are in a lot of trouble.

00:43:45.480 Our planes won't fly, our ships won't be able to sail, and our economy will not function without

00:43:49.540 energy.

00:43:50.180 One of those issues that's become dicey within the Republican Party is NATO, which we've

00:43:56.080 talked a lot about these other countries doing their fair share and doing their part.

00:43:59.260 And this is why NATO's become controversial, because there are many people who believe,

00:44:03.100 what are we doing this for?

00:44:04.320 It's, I mean, it made sense right after World War II, but does it make sense today?

00:44:08.300 And the United States tends to be the dominant player.

00:44:10.520 The Europeans can support themselves. 0.63

00:44:11.860 They don't need the United States to be the big babysitter of the world.

00:44:15.100 And it creates more opportunities for us to get involved in foreign conflicts that we

00:44:19.800 shouldn't be involved in.

00:44:20.840 To that, you say what?

00:44:22.040 Well, the president's position on NATO is the same every other president has had.

00:44:25.380 And that is that our allies, many of our allies in NATO do not do enough to provide for their

00:44:29.980 own security.

00:44:31.080 Every other president's made the same complaint.

00:44:32.860 He's just actually been serious about it.

00:44:34.660 And that's what he's pointing to.

00:44:36.080 And look, it's interesting.

00:44:36.940 And in fairness, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, the closer you are to Russia, the more they're

00:44:41.440 spending as a percentage of their GDP on national defense.

00:44:44.320 But then you have countries like France, okay?

00:44:46.880 Or you have countries like Germany.

00:44:48.480 These are big economies, powerful economies.

00:44:50.680 And they don't spend as much on national security.

00:44:54.260 Now, why?

00:44:55.560 Because they rely on NATO.

00:44:57.000 They say, well, we don't need to spend that much on.

00:44:58.860 Yeah, we don't need to spend as much on defense because America has soldiers here and if they

00:45:02.480 get attacked, they'll be our national defense.

00:45:04.560 So we can instead spend all that money on this enormous social safety net.

00:45:09.220 When you ask those kids, why can't you spend more on national security?

00:45:12.800 Their argument is because it would require us to make cuts to welfare programs, to unemployment

00:45:18.300 benefits, to being able to retire at 59 and all these other things.

00:45:22.440 That's a choice they made.

00:45:23.760 But we're subsidizing that.

00:45:25.700 So I think if you were to articulate the president's point on NATO, number one, they need to do more.

00:45:29.580 And I do think long term, there's a conversation to be had about whether the United States needs

00:45:34.020 to be at the front end of securing the continent or as a backstop to securing the continent.

00:45:40.140 And if you talk to countries on the eastern periphery, the ones closest to Russia, all of them

00:45:43.840 are building the capability to be at the front end, the Poles, the Czechs, all of these different

00:45:49.540 places.

00:45:49.960 And if you move further west to the richest economies, Germany, France, Spain, they don't

00:45:55.240 spend enough on national security.

00:45:56.880 They're relying on us to be the front stop.

00:45:59.260 And that's not an alliance.

00:46:00.820 That's a dependence.

00:46:01.960 And we don't want that.

00:46:02.700 We want NATO.

00:46:03.480 We want a NATO in which we have strong and capable allies.

00:46:07.480 You know, Finland's a very capable ally.

00:46:09.000 They make weapons.

00:46:09.760 They bring something to the table.

00:46:12.700 We need more countries like that to behave in that manner in the alliance.

00:46:16.980 And then it'll be a stronger alliance.

00:46:18.700 And it'll be able to work cooperatively, not just in Europe, but in other challenges we

00:46:22.140 face around the world, hopefully even the Indo-Pacific potentially.

00:46:25.620 Ukraine's another issue that's got the party divided.

00:46:28.360 You know, you've got a lot.

00:46:30.460 I'm sticking with the Republicans now because there's a whole other debate with the other

00:46:33.320 side of the aisle.

00:46:34.180 But who say, no, you know, Putin's a bad actor.

00:46:36.760 Russia is a growing threat and we're doing the right thing by backing Ukraine. 1.00

00:46:40.980 And I would say the majority of Republicans now are against that viewpoint and think we've

00:46:45.260 lost.

00:46:45.940 We've spent too much.

00:46:47.160 It's any place from $105 billion to $187 billion.

00:46:50.620 And they've lost.

00:46:52.340 We just have to be realistic about the fact that Ukraine has lost.

00:46:55.760 It's not going to gain back any of this ground.

00:46:57.520 And we need a negotiated settlement now before we keep throwing good money after bad.

00:47:01.180 And we can't afford it.

00:47:02.440 We've got Americans who are suffering now.

00:47:03.900 I think that's the majority view, even on the Republican side now.

00:47:06.460 It also happens to be the reality on the ground.

00:47:08.820 First, let me say this.

00:47:10.720 We think what Putin did was terrible, invading a country, the atrocities he's committed.

00:47:14.860 He did horrible things.

00:47:16.500 But what the dishonesty that has existed is that we somehow led people to believe that

00:47:21.800 Ukraine would be able not just to defeat Russia, but, you know, destroy them, push 0.53

00:47:25.820 them all the way back to what the world looked like in 2012 or 2014 before the Russians took 0.99

00:47:31.780 Crimea and the like.

00:47:33.040 And in the result, what they've been asking for the last year and a half is to fund a

00:47:36.580 stalemate, a protracted stalemate in which human suffering continues.

00:47:40.140 Meanwhile, Ukraine is being set back 100 years.

00:47:43.080 Their energy grid is being wiped out.

00:47:44.660 I mean, someone's going to have to pay for all this reconstruction after the fact.

00:47:48.320 And, you know, how many Ukrainians have left Ukraine living in other countries now?

00:47:51.420 They may never return.

00:47:52.280 I mean, that's their future.

00:47:53.100 And it's endangered in that regard.

00:47:54.800 So the president's point of view is this is a protracted conflict and it needs to end.

00:47:58.620 Now, it needs to enter a negotiation.

00:48:00.100 In any negotiation, both sides are going to have to give something up.

00:48:04.060 I'm not going to pre-negotiate that.

00:48:05.800 I mean, that's going to be the work of hard diplomacy, which is what we used to do in the

00:48:09.420 world in the past.

00:48:10.300 And we were realistic about it.

00:48:11.840 But both sides in a negotiation have to give something.

00:48:15.260 And that's going to take time.

00:48:16.440 But at least we have a president that recognizes that our objective is this conflict needs to

00:48:20.300 end.

00:48:20.540 And it needs to end in a way that's enduring because it's an unsustainable on all sides.

00:48:26.440 It's ultimately unsustainable for Russia is paying a big price for this in their own

00:48:29.400 economy, their inflation rate and the like.

00:48:31.680 But at the end, that's the president's position.

00:48:34.880 And it's the truth.

00:48:36.140 And I think even a growing number of Democrats would now acknowledge that what we have been

00:48:40.020 funding is a stalemate, a protracted conflict, and maybe even worse than a stalemate, one

00:48:45.000 in which incrementally Ukraine is being destroyed and losing more and more territory.

00:48:48.880 So this conflict needs to end.

00:48:50.580 Who's the bigger problem in reaching a final negotiated settlement there, right?

00:48:55.420 Is it Putin or is it Zelensky?

00:48:57.620 There's a report out that the Ukrainians are just banking on Putin, digging his heels in

00:49:03.900 and becoming annoying to President Trump on this because he won't give an inch.

00:49:08.020 And they're hoping that President Trump will come back over closer to their worldview about

00:49:12.700 Putin, about Russia, about this conflict.

00:49:14.280 So who do you see as the bigger obstacle into getting a negotiated peace there?

00:49:17.380 Well, I think there's the public and then there's the private, right?

00:49:20.280 So and what you see portrayed publicly in conversations and what leaders say, a lot of it is speaking

00:49:25.560 they have domestic political considerations.

00:49:28.500 Even Vladimir Putin, who controls media, still has to care about what public opinion is in

00:49:33.140 Russia and his image and what his entire personality is built around.

00:49:37.640 Why do you think he does the shirtless pictures?

00:49:39.860 He didn't do those anymore.

00:49:40.960 I think it's been a while.

00:49:42.260 I asked him.

00:49:43.140 I asked him, why do you do it?

00:49:44.620 When I interviewed him and he said, I give the people what they want.

00:49:47.100 Yeah, well, you know, the point is that he has got his own domestic considerations and

00:49:52.840 so does Zelensky, right?

00:49:53.800 I mean, at the end of the day, he's got, if you imagine if you're a Ukrainian, the Russians 0.99

00:49:57.520 have made you suffer so much and now you're going to let them keep land.

00:50:00.240 I mean, people would be upset about that in Ukraine and you would understand it.

00:50:03.660 And then there's the mature realities of life on this planet.

00:50:07.320 And that's where this work is going to have to be defined.

00:50:10.040 Both sides are paying a heavy price for this.

00:50:12.500 Both sides have incentive for this conflict to end.

00:50:15.360 Both sides are in a, it's not going to end with the maximalist goals of either side.

00:50:20.360 And there's going to have to be a lot of hard work done.

00:50:23.000 And I think only the United States under the leadership of President Trump can make that

00:50:26.520 possible.

00:50:27.420 But it won't be easy and it'll take some time.

00:50:29.660 But it's certainly something I know he's strongly committed to being, to seeing happen.

00:50:32.900 And then there's Israel and the return of the hostages, which still include Americans.

00:50:38.240 Right.

00:50:40.440 Supposedly, we're going to get three Americans back in the first, the first tranche, the first 0.99

00:50:44.560 phase of this hostage deal.

00:50:47.540 Do you believe we will?

00:50:48.800 And what are we going to do if we don't?

00:50:50.340 Well, I expect we will, because that's the agreement that was made.

00:50:54.540 And, but the core problem here remains.

00:50:56.900 And that is ultimately, as long as there is an entity like Hamas, whose express purpose 0.95

00:51:04.300 is the destruction of the Jewish state, who is willing to commit horrifying atrocities 0.92

00:51:08.780 against civilians, against teenage girls at a concert and do the things that they've done 0.91

00:51:13.740 and take hostage for a year and a half babies and elderly and murder and all the things that

00:51:17.360 they did.

00:51:18.220 That's a threat to Israel's national security. 0.53

00:51:20.300 What country in the world can be expected to live alongside an enemy armed, capable and

00:51:25.560 willing of committing horrifying atrocities?

00:51:27.860 You can't.

00:51:28.480 It's awful.

00:51:28.860 So I think that the ceasefire is important because it brought an end to some of the destruction

00:51:33.080 and certainly allowed hostages to be freed at an extraordinary cost.

00:51:36.500 I mean, we're talking about a ratio of one that, you know, you get a teenage hostage in

00:51:41.760 exchange for 250 killers, Hamas killers that are released from prison.

00:51:45.980 So just think about how unfair that trade is.

00:51:48.100 But it tells you how much, you know, we value life compared to what the other side, the Hamas 1.00

00:51:54.460 animals view this.

00:51:56.040 Now, that said, the real challenge here is going to be what happens when the ceasefire

00:52:01.620 period expires?

00:52:02.680 Who's going to govern Gaza? 0.55

00:52:04.240 Who's going to rebuild Gaza? 0.98

00:52:05.920 Who's going to be in charge of Gaza?

00:52:07.780 Because if the people who are in charge of Gaza are the same guys that created October 7th, 0.99

00:52:12.240 then we still have the same problem.

00:52:13.940 Past this prologue.

00:52:14.620 It is.

00:52:15.360 And so now the good news in the region is in Lebanon, we have a government that hopefully

00:52:20.020 will become more powerful than Hezbollah in the Lebanese government.

00:52:23.060 And there's a ceasefire that was extended there that ultimately will lead to that.

00:52:26.560 In Syria, a group has taken over.

00:52:29.960 These are not guys that would necessarily pass an FBI background check, per se.

00:52:33.300 No, would not be coming over for Sunday dinner.

00:52:35.000 But if there's an opportunity in Syria, if there is an opportunity in Syria to create 0.63

00:52:39.040 a more stable place than what we've had historically, especially under Assad, where Iran and Russia

00:52:44.320 dominate it and where ISIS operated with impunity, we need to pursue that opportunity and see where that leads.

00:52:49.840 And if you have a region in which you have a more stable Syria, a more stable Lebanon where Hezbollah

00:52:54.780 is not able to do the things it does on behalf of Iran, a weakened Iran, who's now lost all of these proxies,

00:53:02.060 it now opens the door to things like a deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel,

00:53:06.480 which would change the dynamic of the region.

00:53:08.140 And then ultimately, not make easy, but make easier resolving some of these challenges

00:53:13.500 that we face with the Palestinian question, and in particular with the Gaza question.

00:53:17.920 So there's a lot of work to be done there.

00:53:19.860 None of it is certain.

00:53:20.800 All of it is hard.

00:53:21.840 But real opportunities that we couldn't have even imagined 90 days ago.

00:53:26.700 Domestically, Trump pulled the security around Mike Pompeo, who was his secretary of state.

00:53:33.520 And I wonder if that, what your reaction was to that, because his defenders are saying

00:53:38.840 it's an outrage and that, you know, he exposed now.

00:53:41.420 Look, the president has the authority to make those decisions and to execute those orders.

00:53:47.240 I can tell you they're all were run through the process that exists for assessing threat versus cost.

00:53:54.380 That process was executed on.

00:53:57.280 There was agreement that this was something that could be done.

00:53:59.820 I've never taken lightly, and if circumstances change and new threats emerge or additional

00:54:05.860 threats emerge, that will always be an option to address.

00:54:09.480 But if you look at some of it, it's also not sustainable.

00:54:12.600 I mean, theoretically, Iran decided or things got out there that Iran wanted to continue to

00:54:19.220 kill people. 0.90

00:54:19.720 We would have to provide everybody a security detail. 0.99

00:54:21.800 So there's a balance there.

00:54:22.760 We don't want to see any Americans harmed.

00:54:24.260 But those decisions about who we provide security for have to be based on a risk assessment.

00:54:32.520 And those risk assessments were done.

00:54:34.960 And it led to that outcome and that conclusion.

00:54:37.800 On the subject of risk assessment, we pulled U.S. foreign aid.

00:54:41.340 We paused U.S. foreign aid with humanitarian exceptions.

00:54:45.320 And then there was a bunch of negative blowback on how this was stopping critical medications

00:54:51.900 and other humanitarian aid that was being provided to our, you know, third world allies.

00:54:57.660 Now we've loosened that spigot again.

00:54:59.540 So the criticism is that we got too far ahead of our skis by pulling too much too soon in

00:55:05.000 which you respond to what you say.

00:55:06.440 No, I mean, we didn't issue a pullback.

00:55:08.340 We issued a clarification.

00:55:09.120 We always said from the very beginning, with the exception of, you know, Israel and Egypt, 0.52

00:55:13.000 because that security assistance is a cornerstone of that Camp David Accord and the deals that

00:55:17.760 were made there and are critical to that region.

00:55:19.740 With the exception of that, we said all foreign aid is paused for 90 days, except for things

00:55:24.980 that save lives.

00:55:25.760 And what was mentioned in the executive order were things like food and the like.

00:55:30.280 We went back, people say, well, people, we have medicines that we've paid for and that

00:55:33.460 are deployed and it's sitting on a shelf somewhere and we are not authorized to give

00:55:37.420 it to people.

00:55:37.920 So I said, all right, it makes no sense for us if we've already paid for the medicine

00:55:41.200 not to distribute it and give it to people.

00:55:42.880 We don't want to see people die and the like.

00:55:44.980 But this, I think what's important is to talk about the purpose of this pause, okay?

00:55:48.740 If I went to these foreign entities, $60 billion a year, if I went to these and said, okay,

00:55:53.000 show me your foreign aid programs and what they do, historically, we've gotten very little

00:55:56.980 cooperation.

00:55:58.380 But if you go to them and say, okay, your money is stopped until you tell us what you

00:56:01.880 do, now you get a lot more cooperation.

00:56:04.280 So now a process exists and that process is you apply for a waiver.

00:56:08.320 And everybody knows how to apply for a waiver.

00:56:10.200 They know how to come forward and say, this is what our program does.

00:56:12.880 This is why it's important.

00:56:14.260 This is why it makes America safer, stronger, and more prosperous.

00:56:17.340 This is why it's in our national interest.

00:56:19.340 Now we get details about these programs and we may say, okay, the program gets a waiver.

00:56:24.200 Or we may say, well, the program gets a partial waiver.

00:56:27.020 You do five things.

00:56:27.980 Three of them are critical.

00:56:29.420 Two of them remain under pause.

00:56:31.980 That's what it gives us the opportunity to do now.

00:56:33.920 Thinking of it almost as an audit, but not an audit in which we're voluntarily asking

00:56:37.660 for cooperation.

00:56:38.500 I think we're now getting a lot more cooperation because otherwise you don't get your money.

00:56:42.520 And so I think as the weeks go on, you will see more and more programs come back online

00:56:46.940 because we've had a chance to review what they actually are.

00:56:49.480 Some will be partial.

00:56:50.420 Some will be full.

00:56:51.540 But we've got to get control of this.

00:56:52.880 We have this thing that I've called the foreign aid industrial complex.

00:56:57.720 All these entities around the world that are getting millions and millions of dollars

00:57:01.140 from the United States, we have to make sure that it's aligned with our national interest,

00:57:04.400 that we are prioritizing that and that we're spending it on things that really matter

00:57:08.240 and are really producing.

00:57:09.140 Like we don't want 50 million in condoms to the Palestinians? 1.00

00:57:13.280 They deny that that's true.

00:57:14.620 The Biden administration denied that.

00:57:16.360 Okay, but part of it was they may deny the number, but they can't deny that there are things

00:57:20.980 that we were doing in Gaza that had nothing to do with saving lives on the short term

00:57:24.260 or even helping with a ceasefire.

00:57:26.060 Here's the broader point.

00:57:27.620 And I don't know the, I'm rounding numbers here, but on USAID, about 11, less than 12%,

00:57:35.380 let's be fair, let's say 12 and a half percent of every dollar.

00:57:38.840 So 12 cents of every dollar ultimately reached the end recipient.

00:57:42.760 That means the rest of the money was going to fund some NGOs somewhere, some organization.

00:57:47.100 Maybe there's a justification for it.

00:57:48.680 But before I stand before a congressional committee or the American people and say,

00:57:52.760 we sent a dollar to help this cause, but only 12 cents of it really got to the people

00:57:58.680 we're trying to help, the rest of it went into the hands of an organization.

00:58:01.960 How do we justify that?

00:58:03.060 I can't justify that.

00:58:04.140 I need to know answers to that.

00:58:05.680 And so these are the kinds of things that we have to go through.

00:58:07.700 And ultimately our foreign aid has to be a tool that we use to advance the national interest.

00:58:12.160 The U.S. government is not a charity.

00:58:13.960 It spends money on behalf of our national interest.

00:58:15.980 There are a lot of great causes in the world and the private sector can raise as much money

00:58:19.260 as they want for those.

00:58:20.600 We, taxpayers, are going to invest in the things that further our national interest.

00:58:24.320 And that's the process we're going through right now.

00:58:26.240 And the pause has helped accelerate it.

00:58:28.060 I'm going to wrap it up, but I do want to ask you about just a couple more things.

00:58:33.720 Number one, eight years ago, you and I were crossing each other on a debate stage.

00:58:39.620 Donald Trump was center stage and he was insulting both of us.

00:58:45.060 And things have really changed in eight years.

00:58:47.700 Yeah, I mean, can you talk about that evolution for you?

00:58:49.140 Yeah, I mean, though, I love like mixed martial arts and boxing, right?

00:58:52.900 And I see people go in the ring and I've never, no, I never heard anyone ask a boxer,

00:58:56.420 why did you punch him in the face in the third round?

00:58:58.340 And the boxer would say, well, because it was a boxing match.

00:59:01.020 And so, you know, campaigns are a competitive environment.

00:59:03.820 And Trump, President Trump's a tough guy.

00:59:05.980 And so these things are going to get rough and tumble.

00:59:07.640 But there's another difference.

00:59:08.880 I didn't know Donald Trump when he ran for president.

00:59:10.740 I mean, I knew who he was, but I didn't know him as a person.

00:59:13.580 Then he became president.

00:59:14.620 I was in the Senate.

00:59:15.660 Those were the four best years I've ever had in the Senate because we got a lot of things

00:59:18.860 done working with him.

00:59:20.120 I got to work around him.

00:59:21.100 I got to know him as a person, not as the caricature on television, but as a person

00:59:25.440 about the way he works, the way he makes decisions.

00:59:27.820 You learn from being around someone like that as well.

00:59:30.360 The things he does on an interpersonal basis with people, the acts of kindness that are never

00:59:34.760 going to be reported, the things he does for people that you're never going to hear.

00:59:38.660 But that he, I've just, and over time, there's a big difference between the way you know someone

00:59:43.560 and when you don't know them.

00:59:44.980 And I would also say this, you know, I worked in the Senate, 99 of my colleagues, 98 of my

00:59:49.360 colleagues, because I voted for myself, 98 of my colleagues.

00:59:51.860 These are people I strongly disagree with.

00:59:53.840 These are people that have accused people who hold some of my policy positions of being

00:59:58.020 some of the worst human beings on the planet.

00:59:59.580 And yet, on a personal level, I had to figure out a way to work with them and get along

01:00:03.600 with them.

01:00:03.900 And they're in the other party.

01:00:05.260 So I don't understand this idea where if I'm, if a Democrat and Republican run against

01:00:10.080 each other, you lose the election, you're expected to now, okay, the election's over.

01:00:13.780 You guys need to work together in the interest of our country.

01:00:15.940 If that's expected among people that are in opposite parties, what should be expected of

01:00:20.200 people that are in the same party?

01:00:21.740 They should be expected to also work together.

01:00:23.720 In the end, I'm in this because I want to serve my country, not because I want to be an

01:00:28.200 enemy of anybody else's on a personal level.

01:00:30.600 In the case of President Trump, I've worked alongside him and I've gotten to know him

01:00:34.220 over the years.

01:00:34.780 And I hope that we've gained a mutual respect for one another as well.

01:00:38.980 And so much so that I was honored to be his nominee for Secretary of State.

01:00:42.360 And now I am.

01:00:43.120 Yeah.

01:00:43.320 And it's an exciting time to be here.

01:00:45.360 You gave it back to him just as good.

01:00:47.020 And I gave him a few punches, too.

01:00:48.260 So we, you know, it was fair game.

01:00:49.660 We were both fair game back when that was happening.

01:00:51.480 It was almost 10 years ago now, that debate, that August 15 debate.

01:00:53.900 I mentioned at the top of the interview, flippantly, the deep state thing.

01:00:58.660 You know, it is a real concern for a lot of people that there's like a group of people

01:01:02.900 at state and elsewhere who will actively work to undermine your agenda and President Trump's.

01:01:08.240 Well, I think that's going to be true in any large organization.

01:01:10.740 You're going to have people that are not aligned with a mission or not aligned with

01:01:13.360 carrying things out.

01:01:14.220 And I think I always am careful about it, not because I'm resistant to the idea per se,

01:01:17.760 but because I also think there are very talented people who may not agree with me on policy,

01:01:22.060 but will do what the mission is.

01:01:26.340 They will carry out the mission.

01:01:28.600 And I think we expect that of people all the time.

01:01:30.880 You know, I mean, if you think about it, I don't know who the pilot on,

01:01:33.940 maybe it's a terrible analogy on a day like this,

01:01:36.180 but we don't know when we get on a commercial aircraft who the pilots voted for,

01:01:40.200 you know, or who they are, but I don't think they're going to harm us.

01:01:42.760 I don't, you go to a doctor, I don't necessarily check their voter registration.

01:01:46.000 And we expect doctors to treat us well.

01:01:47.800 And I think the same is true for people that work.

01:01:49.420 There are a lot of professionals that work in the State Department who will carry out the mission,

01:01:53.820 but they need to have a clear mission.

01:01:55.320 And they want the State Department to be relevant again and have deep expertise on topics that we need their support.

01:02:00.560 Now, look, if someone is going to actively undermine the work of the elected administration, that's a problem.

01:02:06.540 And I think any agency would argue that.

01:02:08.920 And I think any president would argue that.

01:02:10.960 In the end, the State Department and foreign policy is not separate from our republic.

01:02:15.840 In our republic, the American people elect a president.

01:02:18.700 And that president is the executive officer of our country and is in charge with executing our foreign policy.

01:02:25.080 And our agency's job is to execute the president's foreign policy.

01:02:28.200 We don't have an independent foreign policy, independent from our republic, independent from our people, independent from the outcome of elections.

01:02:35.600 And so our expectations is that no matter how people may feel about political leaders or me or the president or anybody else,

01:02:40.940 their job is to execute on the policies the American people have chosen through their elected representatives.

01:02:46.220 And that's what we're going to do at the State Department.

01:02:48.060 And I think the overwhelming majority of our workforce will comply with that.

01:02:51.720 Pretty cool.

01:02:52.500 Your parents were from Cuba.

01:02:54.240 They immigrated here in the late 1950s, I think.

01:02:56.380 Your dad was a janitor.

01:02:57.100 May 27th, 1956.

01:02:58.800 Your mom works in a hotel as a maid. 0.98

01:03:02.200 And here you are, Secretary of State.

01:03:04.780 Final thought on what that says about the United States of America.

01:03:08.880 That it remains the only place where anyone from anywhere can achieve anything.

01:03:12.700 And I think from our example is what other countries we hope will try to emulate in their own nations.

01:03:18.380 And so it's a testament not just to the country, but to the people of this country.

01:03:21.800 And the greatest gift my parents ever left me is they never did my parents ever say, you can't be that.

01:03:29.440 People like us can never be that.

01:03:31.640 They've always encouraged us to have big dreams and pursue them, whatever they may lead.

01:03:35.580 And if you work hard, you can achieve what they are.

01:03:37.780 For some people, that dream is I just want to have a really good job and raise a family and be able to leave my kids better off than themselves.

01:03:44.400 And for others, it's professional dreams as well.

01:03:46.980 And I am blessed to be a citizen of the only place in human history where that's happened for so many.

01:03:52.560 Those dreams have led you to this position and soon to Panama where we need you.

01:03:57.360 You've got an important job.

01:03:58.360 Good luck.

01:03:58.860 Thank you.

01:03:59.340 Thanks for doing this.

01:04:00.360 Great to see you again.

01:04:01.140 A lot of fun.

01:04:01.540 Thank you.

01:04:05.140 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:04:07.240 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:04:09.800 No BS.

01:04:14.400 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 30, 2025

Secretary of State Marco Rubio on Buying Greenland, His Trip to Panama, and How to End the Russia-Ukraine War ｜ Ep. 995

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