The Megyn Kelly Show - Sharon Osbourne on Her ＂The Talk＂ Exit and Marriage, and Adam Curry on Cancel Culture and Dave Chappelle

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.420 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Coming up just a bit later,

00:00:17.020 we're going to have a legend in the podcast world, Adam Curry. But we begin today with Sharon Osbourne,

00:00:23.760 the one and only. This is her first long-form interview since leaving the CBS show The Talk

00:00:29.220 after her co-hosts and women she thought were her friends insinuated on air that she was a racist

00:00:34.540 based on absolutely nothing. Of course, behind closed doors, they were saying something much

00:00:39.980 different to her, and there is actually a tape to prove it. We're going to get into that.

00:00:45.460 But first, it all started when Sharon tweeted in defense of Piers Morgan, who was under fire for

00:00:50.740 questioning Meghan Markle's claim to Oprah during that Meghan and Harry primetime tell-all. You

00:00:57.440 remember Meghan Markle claimed that she felt suicidal and no one in the royal family would

00:01:02.120 help her. She said that the royal family, quote, had concerns over their son's skin color when she

00:01:10.180 was still pregnant with little Archie. And Piers said he did not believe a word of it. The next day,

00:01:16.480 he was asked by his boss to apologize, and he refused on free speech grounds, saying he wasn't sorry.

00:01:23.460 And by the way, his alleged controversial comments were later supported by the authorities in England

00:01:30.400 who said he didn't cross any lines for broadcasters over there. Piers quit rather than apologize.

00:01:36.940 Well, Sharon and Piers went way back. They were friends. They'd co-hosted a show before,

00:01:40.980 and she tweeted at Piers, quote, I'm with you. I stand by you. People forget that you're paid for

00:01:47.540 your opinion and that you're just speaking your truth. By the next morning, it was Sharon Osborne who was

00:01:53.160 facing the firing squad on her very own show. Here's a sampling of what happened.

00:01:59.600 And everybody has a right to say what they feel with freedom of speech. Did I like everything he

00:02:06.320 said? Did I agree with what he said? No. If he says, I don't see it as being racist or what she's

00:02:15.200 going, I don't believe what she's going through. It's that white entitlement privilege that makes it

00:02:21.420 racist upon itself. So if you're saying I stand with you, how do you address people who say then

00:02:28.540 you are standing with racism? Not saying that you are. People feel that he's racist. People have

00:02:34.420 receipts. I wish we had them today so that we could actually go deeper into this conversation so

00:02:39.580 people could see why people feel that he's racist. And when we kind of give passes or give space to

00:02:46.560 people who are saying damaging, harmful things, what we're kind of doing is permissing it. And I

00:02:54.420 think that's what people are reacting to. And I think people believe that you're not racist. I don't

00:02:58.800 think you're racist. Just to say that super plainly. I don't think you're racist. But I think if people

00:03:03.840 know you're not racist, they would want you to stand up to your friend. I stick up for my friends. If I

00:03:09.180 was ever needed him, he would be there for me. And that's it. I feel even like I'm about to be put in

00:03:19.080 the electric chair. I will ask you again, Cheryl. I've been asking you during the break. I am asking

00:03:24.860 you again. And don't try and cry because if anyone should be crying, it should be me. This is the

00:03:30.880 situation. You tell me where you have heard him say, educate me. Tell me when you have heard him say

00:03:40.200 racist things. Educate me. Tell me. It is not the exact words of racism. It's the implication and the

00:03:51.880 reaction to it. Does that clarify anything for you? Immediately afterwards, Sharon said she felt

00:03:59.740 blindsided by the questioning. The show went on a two week hiatus. An internal investigation was

00:04:06.100 launched. And a few days later, CBS released a statement claiming Sharon's behavior toward her

00:04:12.700 co-host did not, quote, align with CBS's values. Sharon Osbourne was out after 11 seasons in the chair,

00:04:22.200 one of the original co-hosts. But as we all know, there's always much more to the story. Sharon Osbourne

00:04:27.520 is my guest now. Sharon, so happy to have you here. And I apologize for beginning with

00:04:32.920 what is probably traumatic to rewatch. It's just annoying to sort of be brought back to these events.

00:04:38.880 I can speak to that firsthand. But now with the benefit of some hindsight, what do you think

00:04:44.100 happened to you there? What were they doing?

00:04:47.100 I honestly think it's a very complex situation. I think that CBS, I mean, you know, you just look at

00:04:59.500 their ratings, have not been great. They got a coup by getting the Oprah, Meghan and Harry interview.

00:05:10.240 And they put so much into it. The whole world was watching. It was kind of what they needed was the

00:05:20.600 jewel in the crown. And that's what it was for them at that time. And you just look at it business wise

00:05:28.440 for them. The network was failing. And this was their big coup. And to them, it was like, it's untouchable.

00:05:40.840 You cannot, cannot say anything against that interview, because it was the jewel in their crown.

00:05:48.640 And because Piers Morgan was saying what he felt about it in a negative way, and I was standing behind

00:05:59.440 them. I don't think they liked it at all. Because this was their coup. This was bringing them back,

00:06:08.200 you know, from basically, they were, you know, they were number one for so many years,

00:06:14.920 and then it started to slide. And this was bringing them back. And they didn't like the fact that I

00:06:23.140 didn't go against Piers. And then, too, was a woman by the name of Amy Rosenbach is the show,

00:06:38.400 is in charge of the show. And apparently, she turned around to the producers,

00:06:44.040 and she said, I'd like some gentle, I'm trying to think of the word. I can't think of the exact words

00:06:55.260 that she said, because it was told to me by somebody else who was on that call. But they wanted

00:07:02.140 some gentle disagreement. And at the time, I did have on my socials, people complaining that

00:07:13.120 I should have supported Piers, and that made me look like a racist. But I don't think that anybody

00:07:24.500 complained to the FCC. I don't think that I was out of order by dealing with it the way that I did,

00:07:36.320 because I was talking to a friend of 11 years, I was talking to a woman that I've traveled with,

00:07:44.300 that I've worked with, that I sat beside for 11. Well, it's actually she was there for 10 seasons. So

00:07:51.740 for 10 seasons, I had sat next to this woman, she was a family friend. And then boom, she puts me on the

00:07:59.760 hot seat, and talking about racism. And she knows my history. She knows me, she knows I'm not a racist.

00:08:11.040 And Cheryl, you're talking about?

00:08:13.260 I'm talking about Cheryl. Yeah, your co host, who we saw going at you.

00:08:17.440 I'm sorry?

00:08:18.660 That's your co host, who we saw going at you pretty good. And that Cheryl Underwood, she was

00:08:22.380 Cheryl Underwood. Yes. She's, she's, she was the one sort of leading the charge against you.

00:08:29.460 And she was, but Cheryl was, at that time, Cheryl was very, very much a part of the movement. And so

00:08:42.700 she should be. So she should be for, you know, for rights for her people, for people of color. And she,

00:08:51.500 she was very, what should I say? She wanted more of these topics on the show. She wanted the show to

00:09:03.440 be more political than it was.

00:09:06.760 Do you think you, because you were accused by the LA Times of, quote, tone policing her,

00:09:13.580 the tone policed, you know, you're not allowed to say, I have no idea. But I think what they say is

00:09:20.320 you shouldn't say, educate me. And you shouldn't say, don't cry.

00:09:24.200 Oh, that's so, that is from, um, oh God, what is the book called? Uh, white for, is it white

00:09:32.400 fragility?

00:09:32.920 White fragility, Robin DiAngelo.

00:09:35.260 That's what it's from. And they just read that book and took those lines out of that book. Now,

00:09:41.420 everybody has their own opinion. And some people agree with that book. I have read that book. In fact,

00:09:47.660 Elaine gave it to me. And I, I agreed with some of it and a lot of it I didn't agree with. And I'm

00:09:56.960 sorry, but I don't look at her as a woman of color. I look at her as a friend that, and a work colleague,

00:10:04.680 a family friend that has been in my house so many times that has been there for me. And I've been

00:10:10.740 there for her. And I was having a disagreement. You must have been shocked. I mean, I didn't

00:10:20.260 actually realize that you were that close. So you must've been shocked when you sat down on the set

00:10:24.380 that day after doing nothing other than sending out that tweet, defending peers is right to have

00:10:30.480 his own opinion. And so you it's so when we see Cheryl Underwood coming after you, and then Elaine

00:10:38.380 Welteroff was the woman with the long ponytail, we also saw coming after you on the set and nobody

00:10:44.180 there defending you. It wasn't just business. It was personal.

00:10:47.480 It was personal. And Oh, Lord, I mean, I just feel whatever I say is going to get twisted and

00:10:56.740 somebody is going to hate it. But you know what, I can only talk the way I the way I feel right now

00:11:03.640 about the situation that happened to me. Okay, first of all, I'm going to take you back at 730 that

00:11:11.440 morning, March 10. Cheryl Underwood sent me an emoji of, you know, love you. It was the one where you

00:11:22.400 know, there's the little face with the kiss coming out of the side of the mouth. Now, I'm looking at it

00:11:29.660 going. Why did she send me this emoji at 730, whatever it was in the morning? And I, I didn't get it.

00:11:41.440 But anyway, I didn't say anything. I get to this, I get to the studio, I'm always late. So I get to

00:11:49.940 the studio, at a quarter to 10, we go live at 11. And I saw my the show, one of the showrunners,

00:12:01.100 Heather Gray, I bumped into her as I was going into the dressing room. And she said, there's been a lot

00:12:10.380 of, you know, backlash on your social again, do you want to try and clear it up? We'll start the show

00:12:16.500 with it a couple of minutes, just say what you feel. And I'm like, sure, I don't care. I'll do it.

00:12:24.140 Eight minutes before we're going on air, I get a call from her. Because remember, we were not seeing

00:12:31.560 each other, everything's on zoom and on phone with prepping for the show. So I get a call from her. And

00:12:38.820 she says, how do you feel about a couple of the ladies that disagree with you that maybe want to

00:12:46.920 ask you questions about peers? And I'm like, okay, all right. I'm a team player. Okay, fine. If that's

00:12:54.260 what you want. Fine. But my producer had, we all had a producer that would prep us for the show.

00:13:04.560 Everyone had their own personal producer. So my producer and I had gone through the show,

00:13:10.840 we were meant to talk about Selena Gomez. We were meant to talk about, would you believe,

00:13:16.320 Pepe Le Pew being a rapist? Oh, boy. And how Dumbo and another Disney movie was going to be

00:13:27.820 re-edited because it was racist. At the beginning of the show, that's what was being promoted at the

00:13:38.100 show. Right. Not Sharon responds to the social media backlash and the ladies give it to her.

00:13:45.180 Yeah. So you walked into an ambush. That was clear.

00:13:49.160 A total ambush. The first part of the show is like 10 minutes. The whole 10 minutes was on me

00:13:57.140 and about racist and Cheryl saying, I don't think you're racist. I don't think you are,

00:14:06.260 which is a huge difference from I know you're not.

00:14:09.040 Meanwhile, let's just keep reminding people, your alleged sin was just that tweet saying,

00:14:15.940 I support Peer's and his right to say, to give his opinion. That's why they hired him.

00:14:20.540 Exactly.

00:14:21.000 This is insane.

00:14:22.460 Already, this has gone so far off the rails. And when you looked at them and said repeatedly,

00:14:27.820 I realize, educate me. We've heard that all through the Black Lives Matter movement. It's not

00:14:33.400 my job to educate you, but you should know everything. But you weren't saying educate me on racism,

00:14:37.280 education. You were saying, what specifically has he said that you think is right? You were saying,

00:14:43.220 give me the evidence against him and by implication, me for supporting him. And they couldn't do it.

00:14:49.800 I watched the whole thing repeatedly. It was painful. They couldn't do it, Sharon. They didn't

00:14:55.820 have it.

00:14:57.260 No, they didn't have anything on him. Nothing. And in fact, Elaine asked them for evidence and they

00:15:05.580 didn't have it. And she said to Heather Gray, just before she went on, you heard it on the tape.

00:15:11.960 And she said, there's no evidence. We can't find anything. And so Elaine was not happy with the

00:15:20.060 situation.

00:15:21.080 Okay. But here's what's crazy. So Elaine, nonetheless, went on the show and did attack you.

00:15:24.880 She was one of the ones piling on. She's the one with the long ponytail, again,

00:15:27.680 for people who don't watch the talk, which frankly is everyone. Now that you're gone, especially.

00:15:33.600 Okay. So, but Elaine was caught on tape after, after she piled on you on tape, admitting her heart

00:15:42.680 wasn't in it. It was basically all for show. Here is part of that. Elaine Welteroff.

00:15:49.980 I just want you to know, Sharon, Cheryl loves you and respects you so much and had your back

00:15:59.600 behind the scenes. She was not trying to attack you. And I, but I also understand when you've

00:16:06.520 had a night long of trolls attacking you online, that puts you in a position where you're just

00:16:12.900 like, you have to defend yourself. You feel like you have to defend yourself. And I know

00:16:17.280 you're upset. I know it was terrible, but I just hope that once this blows over, once

00:16:23.020 we, that, you know, Cheryl is your friend. She really is your friend. She doesn't think

00:16:29.200 you're racist. I don't think you're racist. No one here who, no one who knows you would

00:16:34.700 ever say that or think that.

00:16:36.540 But why couldn't she say, I've known you for 11 years. I know you are not racist instead

00:16:43.440 of, I don't think you are. No, I know you're not. There's a huge difference.

00:16:49.180 And here's the thing I just want you to just know, Cheryl, I are held to a different standard

00:16:56.600 by black people and people of color out there who expect us to say something about every

00:17:05.620 racist, anything similar. And it puts us in such a up position that even if we don't have

00:17:13.420 the information, if we don't even really care, if we don't really want to engage, that it feels

00:17:18.160 like a spotlight is on us, you know? And, and so it's like, I think that Cheryl was trying to

00:17:26.120 navigate that line. You know what I mean? Where she was like, this is my friend. I know you're not

00:17:30.920 racist. And I hear you though. She did. I will take that to heart. You are right. Like you wanted

00:17:36.540 to hear you are not a racist, Sharon. Yeah, we know that.

00:17:41.820 Unbelievable. So do you think they were faking it on the show?

00:17:44.760 No, I don't. And right after that, um, she was in my dressing room. She went to HR and complained

00:17:53.840 about me. So talk about hypocritical. Her, her makeup artist and her hairdresser all went to HR and

00:18:03.120 complained. Well, so which was the truth? The complaints that you're allegedly a racist and

00:18:10.240 she can't work in this environment or what she said to you, which is, I know you're not a racist

00:18:14.400 and Cheryl knows it too. And there's just enormous pressure on us as black women to say what people

00:18:19.440 want to hear us say. I, I think it was, um, her wanting to, um, she complained, she complained a

00:18:30.500 lot. She did go to HR a lot, Elaine. Um, she's just one of those people, you know, it's, that's who she

00:18:38.580 is. She wants, she feels she wants her rights and she'll fight for it, which I kind of admired at the

00:18:45.800 beginning. I don't know her. Well, you've got to remember, I only worked with her for, for, from

00:18:51.960 January to March. So I really don't know her well, but, um, just a hypocrite says one thing to me.

00:19:00.940 She also asked me at the same time, um, business advice, all in the same way.

00:19:08.700 She's talking to you in that dressing room. She seems sincere, you know, to me, I feel like the

00:19:14.980 fake version must've been on the air because she says she's under pressure to do it. And when she

00:19:20.700 speaks to you, she didn't sound like she was lying. So I don't, I don't know what's in her head, but

00:19:24.320 that doesn't reflect well on any, any of those. I don't know. I know that she's, you know, a bright

00:19:31.040 young woman, very, very ambitious. I admire that within her, but she doesn't care about me. She

00:19:37.880 doesn't think she did anything wrong, but she's a hypocrite because she sat and said one thing to me

00:19:44.840 and then went right to HR. And by the way, it was, the show wasn't off the air for two weeks. It was

00:19:52.540 off for over a month where they all had sensitivity training. Everyone.

00:19:59.380 I mean, you tell me, cause Cheryl has come out and said, um, trying to find the exact quote,

00:20:05.200 but she said that, that that exchange in that exchange, you traumatized her, that you traumatized

00:20:11.760 her the way you treated her.

00:20:13.480 She said that she suffered from, um, PTSD.

00:20:18.320 Do you believe that?

00:20:19.380 Absolutely not. You're talking about a woman that has served in the military.

00:20:25.200 You're talking about a woman that started off, uh, as an erotic dancer. Then she joined the

00:20:33.000 military. Then she did stand up and she worked her way up from every little comedy club in America

00:20:41.580 and worked her way up to, to what she is today. And I think any woman that has that sort of

00:20:49.220 background would not be traumatized by a woman saying to her, you shouldn't be crying. It's

00:20:56.200 me that should be crying. And I don't think that traumatized her. She's changed her tune.

00:21:03.940 Then she said it was the Lord was in her and her Lord was telling her to do this. So she,

00:21:11.440 you know, and she also lied about, I didn't apologize, which I did. So it's all very confusing.

00:21:19.280 Meanwhile, CBS stuck the knife in and twisted it and left you hanging out there to dry for all that

00:21:25.940 time. Nobody came out to defend you on or off the, you know, without attribution in the papers. It was

00:21:31.560 brutal, been there. And I wonder whether you think, you know, CBS would like us to believe that they

00:21:37.980 are moral, that they are woke, that they don't tolerate bigotry, that they are on the side of the

00:21:42.740 angels. Oh, give me a break. Oh my God, Megan, you know, you know, TV, you know, how it works.

00:21:52.640 You know, you have no friends, these people that run these networks, especially one that was failing.

00:22:01.380 They are desperate to keep their jobs. They are desperate in these times we live in to be perceived

00:22:08.960 as more than woke. You know, they want to be seen as Mother Teresa and Jesus Christ. And they,

00:22:17.480 and, but they're all hypocrites. They're liars and they're hypocrites and they'll do whatever they

00:22:23.080 have to do to keep their job.

00:22:25.680 Is there one person at CBS that you think was behind this whole thing against you?

00:22:32.100 Yeah. Amy Rosenbach, Risenbach her name is. And, uh, the two showrunners, Heather Gray and Kristen

00:22:41.420 Matthews, who I'd worked with for, I'd worked with the showrunners for 11 years. They were friends of

00:22:48.720 mine, especially Kristen Matthews. And I told them that they destroyed me. I told them I will never

00:22:57.260 be able to get over this. It's like, once you have that seed put on you, that you are a racist,

00:23:04.080 it never goes away. Sadly.

00:23:06.980 And I told them they destroyed me. They, and, uh, when I said that they left me out there to drive for

00:23:14.920 the first part of the show for 10 minutes, there was a break in the break. There was no executive

00:23:22.440 on the floor. Cheryl refused to look at me. Look, she would not look at me. She would not talk to me.

00:23:29.420 And I kept saying to her, why are you doing this? Why, why, why do this to me?

00:23:35.740 Mm hmm. And she wouldn't talk to me. And I did swear at her. I did. Yeah. Well, of course you were

00:23:44.860 upset. Of course. And the thing was, it's like, she, she's been at my side all for 10 years. And

00:23:52.520 it's like, if you can't swear at a friend, yeah, I swore at her. So, um, I wonder though, like,

00:24:01.520 what do you think the motivation was? Right. They were upset about the Prince Harry. They didn't want

00:24:04.660 Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's interview with Oprah to be criticized, but these specific women

00:24:09.100 who came for you. I mean, you know, I, the people who've come for me in my past, I know why they did

00:24:14.540 it. I, I can't always reveal it publicly, but I know a hundred percent. I know. So what was it?

00:24:21.260 Um, I think that the show runners were doing what Amy had told them to do. Weak, weak women that

00:24:31.100 didn't have a backbone to turn around and say, this is suicidal. We can't do this. And to let it go

00:24:38.720 after the break. So it was 20 minutes on national TV of bashing me 20 minutes. It was, it was

00:24:47.340 interminable. What about Pepe Le Pew? What about bloody, you know, Dumbo? No, all of that. They just

00:24:55.580 hit me. It was, it was, they just, you know, it, it blindsided me, but the thing was, it was,

00:25:04.520 you know, Cheryl, I think thought she was Gayle King. She was, she was hitting me up, not as,

00:25:12.200 not as a co-host and a friend. She thought she was a journalist. And then you've got Elaine who I don't

00:25:21.040 know. Cause I don't know her that well agreeing. And, you know, it was just a nightmare. But, um,

00:25:28.560 yeah, it was this woman, Amy, who I, who I've met in my life, maybe three times.

00:25:34.980 Wow. For the record, Piers Morgan, uh, he called her out for being, uh, dishonest Megan Markle in

00:25:42.580 that interview. It's now been proven that she was dishonest on several points. She lied on several

00:25:47.680 points in that interview that's come out. He has every right as a journalist, as a newsman,

00:25:53.220 as a news commentator to say, I questioned her credibility. He had very good reason to do so

00:25:58.080 irrespective of skin color. It's a, it's ridiculous to have to reduce everything to skin color. I don't

00:26:03.900 think Piers said anything racist. You didn't say anything racist. And what happened to you

00:26:07.980 was disgusting. Um, and not without significant trauma in its aftermath. I, I want to move on from

00:26:15.180 these ridiculous people, uh, because your life is so much richer and more interesting and layered

00:26:20.580 than this one event. And I want to do that after the break, but I, I, before we pick up with the

00:26:25.240 rest of Sharon Osbourne, when we come back, I do want to spend a minute on the effect this had on

00:26:29.940 you. That's where we'll pick it up right after this quick, quick commercial break.

00:26:38.920 Sharon, I know what it's like to be at the center of all these national news articles and people

00:26:43.120 piling on and seeming to enjoy your struggle and people calling you terrible names and you

00:26:48.060 sort of have to bite down and just bear it. But at some point, CBS comes to you in the midst of this

00:26:53.400 trauma and says what, because their public statement was Sharon has decided to leave the talk. Uh,

00:27:00.300 clearly they forced you out, but what, how did they, how did they break that to you? How did they

00:27:04.960 explain it? Okay. I, when all of this happened, I went to HR and said, I want an investigation.

00:27:14.080 I want to know who decided to do this, why I was left out to dry for 20 minutes. I want to know why.

00:27:23.280 And so they did do the investigation, but it was, um, as usual with corporations like this,

00:27:31.860 did they speak to my producer that was prepping me that morning? No, she was never interviewed.

00:27:38.940 Did they speak to people who were in the booth directing the show? No. So they spoke to a few

00:27:48.020 people. Did they speak to the cameraman? Did they speak to people on the floor? What was going on

00:27:53.440 during the break? No. So they selectively chose certain people to talk to? And it came back that,

00:28:04.600 um, I was very offensive, the way I treated Cheryl, the way I, I, the way my behavior. And so they said to

00:28:15.640 me, you are on permanent suspension with no pay, and we don't know if we'll ever bring you back.

00:28:24.800 And I said, well, what does that mean? Who is going to decide if I come back or not?

00:28:31.440 And they wouldn't tell me. And then HR said to me, we feel that you're not repentative enough.

00:28:42.160 Where are you repenting? What are you doing? You, you, you have no, um,

00:28:50.020 your behavior around this is not appropriate for this situation.

00:28:54.180 Oh, wow. So I told them all what I felt about them all. I told them about some dirt that had

00:29:02.900 gone on at the company that I knew about. And they were very afraid of me because I'm not afraid to say

00:29:11.460 what I feel. And they just wanted me gone. Because when I started talking about things that had gone

00:29:18.040 on, on the show before, they got very, very nervous and just wanted me gone, which I can

00:29:25.480 understand. Like what? I, I said to them, oh, I'm sorry, Megan. What did you say? Well, like what,

00:29:31.720 what had gone on? What was it that was so scary to them? Um, uh, the way people were treated when

00:29:38.420 Leslie was at the show, Leslie Moonvest, um, things that had gone down that I knew personally had gone

00:29:44.900 on. Is there anything you can share with us? No, I wish I could. It will come out though. It always

00:29:55.300 does. It always comes out. Right, Megan? Yeah. Well, hopefully if there's a God in heaven.

00:30:01.940 And so things about, okay, Cheryl, Cheryl was, had three complaints about her from different producers

00:30:09.840 and, um, about the way she treated them. And so they called me and I said, you cannot get rid of

00:30:21.260 Cheryl. There is no way. She can't take that. You just can't do it. So they sent her to anger

00:30:28.280 management. So it's all right to, to, to treat producers that way, but I can't say anything to,

00:30:39.840 a co-host. Well, and also when the chips were down, you had her back and she certainly did not

00:30:46.340 have yours. No. And of course, when it came out that I was mouthing about Cheryl being at anger

00:30:52.580 management because of the way she treated the staff, of course they were all like panic, panic,

00:30:58.920 panic. And listen, none of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. Everybody does. Nobody's perfect.

00:31:06.400 And I'm not saying that Cheryl was a terrible person because she treated producers the way

00:31:12.160 she did. Hey, that's her problem, not mine. But when you bring up the truth, they don't like it.

00:31:22.140 Well, right. And also then to then portray her as this delicate flower who could be traumatized by you

00:31:29.020 out there saying, explain it to me. Right. What you were just asking for was what, what are the facts

00:31:34.540 that he, he, and by implication I am being accused of that's it. Just educate me. Tell me what, what's

00:31:39.320 your evidence. Yeah. What, what has this man said in the past when peers was, um, investigated by

00:31:50.120 Ofcom, which is the equivalent of the FCC in England because Megan went to the head of the network

00:31:59.560 ITV and, um, complained about peers. Megan Markle. And so then, um, they bought in Ofcom to do an

00:32:09.080 investigation. The investigation went through every article he had ever written, every TV appearance he

00:32:16.180 had ever done. And you're talking about a man with a massive, massive body of work behind him with

00:32:22.460 it, all his writings and books and everything. They found nothing.

00:32:28.880 Piers's problem is not that he is racist. Piers's problem is that he will attack anyone who he thinks

00:32:36.020 is a bullshitter, irrespective of race. And sadly, that is too rare in today's day and age.

00:32:43.960 Well, it's not woke, is it? Not at all. And, and you're not, and I'm not, and we've all gotten in

00:32:50.340 trouble for it. I'm not, I am not. And do you know what? People who are, God bless you, have a great life.

00:32:57.880 And if that's the way you feel fine, but don't try and put it on me. I'm too old. I treat people with

00:33:06.540 respect. I treat people with respect. I come in on a good side. And then if you don't give respect to

00:33:14.020 me, then I'll cut your balls off. But the thing is, I give people the benefit of the doubt.

00:33:21.900 That's right. Well, that's right. I, I want to ask you about that later because getting on your

00:33:25.280 bad side could wind up with a Tiffany box in your, in your inbox with some very unfortunate contents.

00:33:30.660 But let's, before we get to that, let me just ask you. So they, they come and you're like,

00:33:35.100 I'm not going to live like that. So forget it. So it's over.

00:33:38.080 But I, I, sorry for interrupting, Megan, but I said, I said to HR, look, let's end it. I want out.

00:33:46.340 I am not going on suspension. I'm not waiting in never, never land. Um, I am, I want out,

00:33:53.660 but let me come back. Let me sort this out. We need a proper mediator here. Let's sort this out

00:34:03.320 and then I'll go. And I thought that it could have been somewhat groundbreaking. It would have been

00:34:10.420 something very interesting for everybody to listen to.

00:34:15.280 On air or off air?

00:34:16.900 On air.

00:34:17.800 On air. Okay. And they didn't want to do it.

00:34:19.560 You must be joking. You must be nothing. Just get out, gone. You have no rights here. Nothing, nothing.

00:34:30.440 Wow. Um, okay. So you, you leave and you're tough. Anybody doubting that go read Sharon's

00:34:42.740 autobiography, extreme 2005. Still, I think number one, um, best selling, biggest selling

00:34:49.220 autobiography since British records began. It's, and it's an amazing book. Um, so you're

00:34:55.360 tough. You have been through a lot in your life, but cancel culture is vicious and it's

00:35:02.780 incredibly painful and it involves not only public humiliation, but the breakdown of a,

00:35:07.420 of a tons of relationships that are very close to you and around you that you didn't expect

00:35:12.420 to lose in a moment's notice. And I would like to ask you how bad it got for you personally.

00:35:19.280 Oh, I don't want to seem a victim, Megan, but it was, it was pretty damn tough. You know,

00:35:27.420 you've got all the crazies coming out saying, um, we're going to cut your throat in the night.

00:35:33.680 We're going to kill your whole family. We're going to even kill your dogs. I mean,

00:35:37.880 the whole nine yards, um, of constant, constant abuse. And then you get people like the LA times,

00:35:46.960 you know, woke, woke, woke. And then you get people like Don Lemon, who I have adored. I,

00:35:53.240 I absolutely adore Don Lemon going on saying it was right that they got rid of me. Well,

00:36:00.300 he doesn't know me. He doesn't know the situation, but it's, Oh yeah, she must be off with a head.

00:36:07.860 He did the same thing to me, Sharon. He did the same thing to me. We were friends.

00:36:11.980 I had written something about him nice in a, in a paper, in a magazine. Cause he asked me to,

00:36:16.420 we were collegial and liked one another. And as soon as I got in trouble at NBC,

00:36:22.140 he stuck the knife in just as fast as he possibly could and turned it. I was stunned, stunned.

00:36:29.620 Me too, because I'm thinking this man is a journalist. Do a little bit of research.

00:36:36.020 I mean, it's, it's stunning. And then there was that guy that's got a really big podcast. What's

00:36:44.580 his name? Joe Rogan. I've never met him in my life. Sorry. He came after you? Yeah. Cause he,

00:36:54.240 he knew, he knew Cheryl because she was a standup and I suppose they'd work together and he said how

00:37:00.360 funny she is. And Cheryl's funny. I mean, she can be, when Cheryl turns it on, she's the best,

00:37:06.980 but he didn't know me. He didn't know the circumstances. People are so quick to tear you

00:37:14.760 down, tear you down. I'm amazed. Joe Rogan came for you. The number of people who have come for him

00:37:21.180 and he's had to withstand with, you know, withstand withering criticism, including accusations of

00:37:26.680 racism. You know, he's there, he's on tape using the N word many times and some other things. I

00:37:32.660 won't relive that. I'm sure he'd appreciate me not going down the list. Um, you know, cause people are

00:37:38.200 mean and insane and they'll use anything you've ever said against you, whatever. I'll let him defend

00:37:42.420 himself, but for him to come for you, I'm shocked. I didn't know that. But it's, um, it's people love

00:37:53.540 to tear other people down. And, and the thing that got me was how I work with women. I love women.

00:38:01.940 I always protect women, but yet they tore me down. Yeah. Like, like you're not human. Like you have no

00:38:09.700 emotions and it really did have a lasting effect on Sharon Osbourne for a long time. I'm going to

00:38:15.060 pick it up with her. Don't go away. Sharon, I, I had Lara Logan on the show a couple of months ago.

00:38:25.600 We had a great talk. And one of the things I confessed to her was, um, I seriously considered

00:38:31.020 and my therapist offered antidepressants to me after my exit from NBC. I mean, it was,

00:38:37.400 it was extremely traumatic and you know, you see your career you've worked so hard for just

00:38:42.040 completely implode and you just, you can't quite understand what happened. Um, and I wouldn't do

00:38:49.020 it. And there's, it's nothing against antidepressants. As my mom always says, better living through

00:38:53.160 medicine, but I just couldn't do it in response to them. I wasn't going to let Andy lack drive me

00:38:59.220 to antidepressants. I just couldn't, I couldn't. Oh my God. I worked with him for a while.

00:39:05.800 You did? I did because he used to run, he ran C, um, Sony, Sony music for a while.

00:39:15.580 Oh, that's right. And was he a woke and gentle evolved leader? Get out of here.

00:39:21.360 Give me a break. Okay. I'm not allowed to say anything more. You can see it in my eyes.

00:39:29.180 It's how our lives have gone like this. Megal, it's unbelievable. I know. Okay. But here's what

00:39:36.140 I wanted to ask you because one thing my, my therapist did not mention to me was ketamine

00:39:40.800 treatments. And I know people who have done those. And, but when I read that you had done those after

00:39:46.020 your exit from the talk, I'm like, see, this is what people don't fucking get about cancel culture.

00:39:49.740 It's awful. And they, they just look at you and I know you're rich and you're powerful and you've

00:39:54.400 got a famous husband and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but you're human. You're human.

00:39:59.120 Oh, I, okay. First of all, CBS knew that I am a depressant, a manic depressant. They know that

00:40:10.760 they know that I've been on medication for a hundred years. They, they know that I tried to commit suicide.

00:40:18.060 They know that I went into an institution. They know all of this, all of it. So, um,

00:40:27.180 they didn't care. They didn't think about my mental state. They didn't think about that.

00:40:34.080 I didn't fit within their, what was it? Their, whatever their bullshit pressure was. Yeah.

00:40:41.640 You know, it's like, they didn't think, or maybe that, you know, we've got to go gently here and look

00:40:48.220 at her, you know, look at her history here, mental, her mental state. They didn't care. And the thing is

00:40:57.120 because I come off bullshit and I say what I feel because I feel at my age and all my life experiences,

00:41:06.740 I can. You've earned it. Yeah, exactly. You've earned it. You earned the right. You earned the

00:41:12.720 right when you, and it's, it's like, they didn't, they didn't give a shit about me. They,

00:41:18.700 they were scared of my mouth, things that I knew that I was going to, I would eventually talk about.

00:41:24.520 Did any of the women call you after? Yes, yes, yes. My God. Carrie Ann Inaba is

00:41:33.220 an incredible human being. She's incredible. She's a great woman. She has been at my side.

00:41:42.200 You know, she never went back. She went back for one day.

00:41:45.220 Yeah. I was going to say she's no longer with them. Any of the others?

00:41:49.040 Oh, Amanda. Amanda Kloots. Yeah. She's a sweet gal.

00:41:52.680 Yes. Oh my God. Just, you know, she's like a ray of sunshine when she comes into a room,

00:41:58.740 a ray of sunshine. Just, and you know what? The crew.

00:42:04.140 Yes. It's always, the crews are always great. It's the, it's the talent and the executives that

00:42:09.540 are horrible. Oh my God. The crew stood up for me. The crew, when they were doing all of this

00:42:15.260 training that they had to do, the sensitivity training, they all stood up for me. They said

00:42:20.640 that this was wrong. Of course. And for them to do that, right. It's like, they're the least

00:42:25.980 powerful guys in the building. So for them to do that takes balls and they, they have them.

00:42:30.660 All right. Well, let's, let's move on from that unpleasantness because FCBS, you know, you've got

00:42:35.960 bigger, bigger and better things ahead of you. I just didn't want to skip past how awful this stuff

00:42:40.700 is. Cause I know it's like, ah, ha ha ha. Sharon Osborne went down to her life is better than mine.

00:42:44.660 So I don't care. Well, what happens to Sharon or to me or to anybody is happening to Joe Schmo.

00:42:50.240 So every day in this country. And so while we may be public examples of it, you have to understand

00:42:55.280 there are people with a lot less riches around them that this happens to. And it's freaking

00:42:59.240 devastating and it's not something to be celebrated. We got to be kinder and find more grace and

00:43:04.340 understand that people are human and do misstep though. You did not. I mean, that's what's crazy.

00:43:09.200 I continue to struggle to see what you did that was worthy of this kind of backlash. All right,

00:43:14.920 let's move on because you are way more interesting than all this. You're 69 years old. Now you've been

00:43:19.220 married almost 40 years to Ozzy Osborne, the Prince of Darkness. But as I studied up on

00:43:24.220 you and Ozzy in preparation for this, I realized he's not really, he's actually quite a charmer.

00:43:30.940 He's sweet. He's a little goofy. What would you say? Describe Ozzy Osborne in three words.

00:43:36.220 Oh, it's so hard, Megan, because he's so multi-layered. He's like a bloody onion. You go through

00:43:42.280 one layer and then there's another. He's, he's soft. He's sensitive and loving, but barking mad.

00:43:51.280 So now I read this on your 39th anniversary. You posted it on Insta. Thank you for 39 years for

00:44:01.280 the most incredible life together. The crazy, wonderful, and insane times. Yes, pain and sorrow

00:44:06.260 too. But we got through it. We worked so hard for years, professionally and personally. We succeed

00:44:11.820 together. You are my soul, my life. What a fantastic life we've lived so far. The best thing is there's

00:44:18.140 more to come. Every day is an adventure. Every day I love you more and respect you more. My soulmate,

00:44:23.160 my love, my friend. Here's to our next adventure. Love you always, Sharon. Wow. Wow. I know you've said

00:44:31.920 that if you hadn't met Ozzy and fallen in love and married him that you feel you would have died an

00:44:38.220 early death. Why? Because I was always a depressant. I was always, I was untreated. I was a terrible

00:44:49.000 depressant. I would always be thinking that really what's it, what's it all about? If you don't have

00:44:58.220 that one person in your life to love and feel is your soulmate, you know, it can be pretty damn tough.

00:45:06.060 And I didn't date much. I, it just wasn't for me. I worked. That's all I did.

00:45:12.560 Your whole life. I mean, you did not have it easy growing up in terms of your parents, which I,

00:45:18.520 I definitely want to get into with you, but you met him when you were 18. He was married to somebody

00:45:24.120 else. Is that why it took you 12 years to find each other and sort of get married and, you know,

00:45:28.220 fall in love? Yeah. It's just the way, you know, life, life was, he was married. He, um,

00:45:36.540 you know, was this wild, wonderful young man and, uh, so charismatic and funny, so funny. And our paths

00:45:45.820 kept crossing and crossing and, you know, one thing led to another when we started to work together and

00:45:54.220 it was, um, he saved my life as much as I saved kids.

00:45:59.920 You were his manager, have been his manager, his virtually his entire career. Um, we'll squeeze

00:46:06.540 in a break, but I have one minute until we have to take it. Some of our guests, some of our listeners

00:46:11.220 say, why do you have a hard break? Cause that's serious. We're at, we have that hard break. So

00:46:14.220 in just a few seconds or less, who was more responsible for his music success, him or you?

00:46:21.920 Him.

00:46:23.240 Okay. What's the percentage, would you say?

00:46:26.500 Um, you know, without somebody that's talented and creates wonderful music,

00:46:32.920 what, what is a manager going to do? It's easy when, when they create great music and are so

00:46:40.340 charismatic and talented, it's easy. You're being self-deprecating. Cause I know it's not easy.

00:46:46.420 I've read your, I've read your book. Um, listen, there's so much more to go over with Sharon.

00:46:50.240 We're going to pick it up right after this break, uh, with life as an Osborne and that's worth sticking

00:46:56.680 around for. With me today, Sharon Osborne, who has hosted shows like the X factor America's got talent,

00:47:08.820 her own talk show, the Osborne's hugely successful. I did not realize that that MTV reality show,

00:47:14.940 which started it all before there were the Kardashians. There were the Osborne's highest

00:47:19.220 ratings ever for MTV in the USA and in Britain, not to mention the talk for 11 years and so on and

00:47:25.000 so forth. Oh, I forgot to mention a celebrity apprentice, uh, which would become relevant

00:47:28.620 later. Okay. So you've done a lot, but going back before all of that, your childhood in England

00:47:34.820 was very colorful with very colorful characters. Your dad, Don Arden, which is a name he made up.

00:47:41.480 Um, he was a music promoter manager. He used you to hide money, act as a shield to some shady activity

00:47:47.340 and to help with his business. Um, and your mom was not exactly stellar. You, how did it happen that

00:47:56.560 you're, you, I guess when your mom died, you found out, you said, what a shame and hung up the phone.

00:48:03.640 Like how does the relationship with your mom get to that point?

00:48:07.840 Oh, um, it just, you know, my mom adored my brother and they had a very special bond and having a son.

00:48:17.180 Now I understand that bond. I totally understand it. I was more, um, like my father and my brother was

00:48:28.100 very much like my mom. My mom was a dancer. She was in variety the same as my father was.

00:48:36.520 She was, she had been married. She, her husband left her with two children. She had a very,

00:48:44.620 and I never knew hardly any of this until recently because I did a show. Um,

00:48:53.780 and it goes in, what's the name of the show, Megan, that goes into your heritage?

00:49:00.460 Who do you think you are? Oh, I don't know that. It's called something else here,

00:49:05.920 but they go back to your family history and they tell you all about, you know,

00:49:10.920 your family from, you know, a hundred years ago and they track everything in your family.

00:49:17.880 Well, they tracked my mom. And when I heard about the things that my mom had gone through as a child,

00:49:25.320 I understand so much now. And I regret things I'd said, the way our relationship ended up,

00:49:37.060 because when you're young, I, you never think about, well, I wonder what my mom's life was like

00:49:45.300 before she met my dad and this, that, and the other, you just, you know, if you have an argument,

00:49:51.080 it's like, Oh, how dare you with this, that, the other, and you, you don't sit down and think about

00:49:58.780 maybe why did she say this? Why did she do this? These are things you learn when you get older.

00:50:04.760 Hmm. And that's one of the gifts of getting older about understanding people.

00:50:10.280 Yeah. And I, I'm being told it's called, uh, find your roots is the name of the show.

00:50:15.660 Right. And so I did the English equivalent. And so they couldn't, they were going to do it on my

00:50:22.020 father, but my father being a Russian, a Russian Jew. And during the war, there were so many

00:50:29.660 papers destroyed, they couldn't do his background. So my mother was an Irish Catholic. And so they found

00:50:38.420 everything on my mother. And so we did my mom and I learned so much of pain that she had gone through

00:50:46.500 pain, suffering, rejection. And, you know, it changed the view on my mom, but at the time she died,

00:50:56.440 I hadn't seen her for years. She'd never seen my children. And we had no relationship at all.

00:51:04.260 But my mom came from the generation of, I stick by my husband, not my children.

00:51:10.700 Hmm. And even though my, my father was, um, had always cheated on my mom and had a mistress for

00:51:21.240 many, many years in Los Angeles, my mom lived in England and she knew this, she still stuck by him.

00:51:30.520 And if he had an argument with me, she had an argument with me. She would take it on. She wouldn't

00:51:37.080 say, well, that's with your dad. It's got nothing to do with me because that was her generation.

00:51:43.520 That's what women did.

00:51:45.640 And you coming up behind him in the family business. I mean, you, you did spend a lot of

00:51:49.580 time with him. You did a lot of stuff. I mean, you were, you were successful in your own right

00:51:53.760 before you ever met Ozzy. You know, you, yes, you managed his career, but you were managing a lot

00:51:58.960 in the music business prior to meeting him. And I, as I read your autobiography and some of Ozzy's,

00:52:04.720 um, I, I wanted to talk about it cause I saw a music business with drugs, extramarital affairs,

00:52:11.900 absentee parenting. That's what Ozzy says about him himself, dishonesty, double crossing. And I

00:52:17.100 would, first of all, I thought reminds me of media. It sounds very familiar. I wonder so quickly,

00:52:23.700 which, which one of those is a dirtier business media or rock and roll? Oh, media. Oh,

00:52:30.620 terrible. Why am I not surprised? Um, but I wonder how you think, because I feel like the

00:52:38.760 me too movement and sort of this PC woke stuff, maybe rock and roll music is the one industry

00:52:44.680 it hasn't really rained down upon. But you tell me as somebody who's had a front row seat to it,

00:52:49.700 do you think, how do you think the music business of like the seventies and the eighties compares

00:52:52.940 to that of today in terms of debauchery and drugs and all the rest of it? Um, it doesn't,

00:53:00.500 it was a whole different world, the sixties, the seventies, the eighties, and then the nineties,

00:53:06.380 people became more sophisticated. There were more lawyers in the industry and, um,

00:53:13.840 it, it kind of leveled out. But before that, it was like the wild, wild West. I mean, people,

00:53:21.980 it was, you know, if you wanted a record playing, you'd go get the radio station guy, Coke, a

00:53:29.040 prostitute, a gift, fly him around the world and you'd get your record played. Wow. And it, it was,

00:53:37.760 everything was payola, payola. That's the way it was. And being a woman, you know, or I've got,

00:53:46.120 I've got seats for the Superbowl dude. Come on, we're going to the Superbowl and they take,

00:53:51.980 the head of whatever TV show they wanted their artists on, or, you know, the head of a radio

00:53:57.800 station. And it was all payola. It was all gifting. And, and people, bands didn't have great lawyers.

00:54:08.580 Everything was wrong, but yet it was sexy. It was exciting. It was,

00:54:17.480 you know, you look at the people that came up in the industry from those times. Those are the true

00:54:25.760 legends. Those are the legends, the people that have gone with the, you know, the little Richards and,

00:54:32.680 and Jerry Lee Lewis and Sam cook. These are the people, the foundation of the music that you hear

00:54:41.060 today. Yeah. What do you, what do you, what do you, what do you think having been there, you know,

00:54:46.580 been front row, probably understates the experience you had in the, in the music industry. What was like,

00:54:54.320 what's the craziest thing you've seen backstage or at a concert?

00:54:59.140 Oh, my Lord. Um, so many terrible, when you think about it now, but at the time you laugh, you,

00:55:10.880 oh, you know, you, you forget it in a second, you, you just forget it in a second, you know,

00:55:15.980 gone. And, you know, some poor girl that's not well in the head is, you know,

00:55:21.240 going to have sex with every crew member to get to somebody in the band. And they're all of 16 years

00:55:28.900 of age and they're following you across country and all things like that, you know, it's just,

00:55:36.260 um, but they were great, creative, innovative times musically. They, they, nothing compares to

00:55:47.580 the music that came then to what it is today. Um, I know you've answered this a million times,

00:55:53.360 but could you just set the record straight on the bat and the two doves? Um, the bat was true.

00:55:59.880 People. Yeah. I mean, it all true. The rabies shots were true. Nightmare time.

00:56:07.820 He bit the head off of a dead bat that somebody threw on stage. The first people said it was live,

00:56:12.020 but it wasn't, it was dead. And he thought it was rubber and he bit its head off and then he had

00:56:15.640 rabies shots. Right. And the doves, it was a case of, we were going, Aussie was going to meet the

00:56:24.480 American record company for the first time. Um, it was a favor that they signed him. They didn't

00:56:31.160 really want him, but they, they signed him. It was a very cheap deal and it was a kind of meet and

00:56:38.020 greet for Aussie and the record company. So they gathered everybody in the boardroom and we said,

00:56:43.120 what can we do that's going to, they'll remember. So we said doves, doves of peace, beautiful. So he

00:56:51.720 took two doves, had them in his pocket and he was, you know, very merry at the time. It was the

00:56:59.580 morning and, and, um, he'd been drinking for several hours before he got there and he was in a very

00:57:05.500 merry mood. And he sat on the knee of the girl that was the head of publicity for, um, epic records.

00:57:14.680 And she was all, hello, hello. And he went into the inside of his jacket pocket, had the dove and

00:57:21.660 just bit its head off and threw it down. Oh my God. And of course it was like, oh my God. Then he got

00:57:29.680 the other dove and just let it go in the room. But you have to remember that Aussie and those days

00:57:38.380 he used before he's, you know, he worked in a slaughterhouse for years.

00:57:44.400 Yes, that's right. I did read that. That's right.

00:57:46.340 That was the only job he could get, you know, no education, no nothing. And that was the only job

00:57:52.460 that he could get. So for Aussie to rip the head off a dove was nothing, but would he do that today?

00:58:00.360 Never in a million years, he won't even kill a fly. He is, but that's life. And that's how

00:58:07.960 life changes you and you grow as a person. And he has grown so much as a person.

00:58:15.700 He's still making music about to tour. I wondered what you thought, because I read,

00:58:22.000 I think it was in your book, I'm getting the two confused, but when he was trying to find

00:58:26.580 bandmates for his solo act after he left Black Sabbath, one of the comments was, well, you can't

00:58:31.700 get like a bunch of 60 year olds, you know, you need somebody younger. And I thought, well, so what

00:58:35.820 happens to the rock star, somebody like Aussie, we've seen it with the Rolling Stones and others,

00:58:41.140 when you get older, how, how does an aging rock star handle getting older?

00:58:47.800 It's tough. It's very, very tough, very, very tough on them. But, um, his audience have grown

00:58:57.240 with him. They've grown old with him, but he's managed to always remain relevant. So he gets a

00:59:05.480 younger generation as each decade goes by. So he has his old fans and new fans, which is very few

00:59:16.280 people can say. Well, that's, that's what the Osbournes did for your, for you guys. Is it,

00:59:21.660 it brought him from sort of this, you know, whatever you want to call it, heavy metal or dark music

00:59:26.360 into sort of mainstream celebrity status. Everybody saw him and saw a different side of him,

00:59:31.860 saw him with, in clips, like, uh, you or somebody in the family was telling him to clean up after

00:59:36.980 the dog who had pooped inside the house. And he was like, I'm a rock star. I don't want to clean

00:59:40.520 up the dog shit. And there's those little moments. This just showed us who your family was. And that's

00:59:48.180 one of the reasons why it was so successful. Can I ask you about your kids? Because your, your book

00:59:53.740 opened up with a story about your three kids. You have Jack and Kelly, who we all know from the

00:59:58.200 Osbournes, but there's also Amy who decided not to be a part of the show.

01:00:01.860 Um, but you, you write about how, oh my gosh, they're not there anymore. And as a mother of

01:00:09.540 three children, this got me, you said, what I realized is they don't need me anymore. You say

01:00:14.500 they lie and say they do, but I know they don't. And then you say, but I need them. Oh, took my breath

01:00:21.380 away, Sharon. So how years later, cause that was back in 2005. How years later has that settled?

01:00:26.960 Like how, how, how is that now? Um, it's, it's really weird because I always refer to them as the

01:00:33.980 kids. You know, my son is, is a dad. He's got three amazingly wonderful little girls. Um,

01:00:42.420 everybody is, you know, they're, they're adults. They are not kids, but they'll always be my kids.

01:00:50.160 They will always, always be my kids. And, um, you know, I think I put in that book too, about

01:00:57.220 how, because of the work that I was in, you know, I spend a lot of time away and how that's one of my

01:01:06.760 biggest regrets. And I always, you know, people who are pregnant, I always say, try and take as

01:01:14.500 much time as possible when they're young, because it goes too quick, too quick. And then they're

01:01:21.160 adults and then they don't need you. And then they have their own lives and, you know, it's, but I,

01:01:27.120 I think, you know, and I wish that I could have had just probably one week again with my mother and

01:01:35.700 father to make amends, to try and put things right, which I never put right when they were alive.

01:01:44.200 And I never want to be in that position with my kids. I always want to be the best that I can be

01:01:54.360 for them. So now what? So Sharon Osborne now, 69, you've accomplished so much in your life. You know,

01:02:01.660 I've ticked off just a few of the many successes. I, for one, am glad you're off of the talk, which

01:02:07.800 I didn't think was the smartest show. And you are a smart woman. So what, like now what, right? You

01:02:14.720 can't, you're not going to go back into daytime talk, right? That's, that's not happening. That's

01:02:19.920 no place for somebody who's not woke. So now.

01:02:23.160 Or wants to play the game. It's for people that want to play the game. And I don't want to play the

01:02:28.660 game. Um, it's, I'm have been trying to do a movie on Aussie for years and finally we've done

01:02:39.560 it. We've signed to Sony pictures and, um, it, it is being written by now by a great British writer,

01:02:47.860 um, Lee Hall. And it's going to be about the early years of our relationship.

01:02:57.840 Good stuff. That is well worth watching and listening and, uh, reading about. So I can't

01:03:05.020 recommend all, I mean, like getting to know the Osbournes, whether it's to the show or the books

01:03:09.900 or whatever your choice is, listening to Aussie's music is, is so worth your time. They are so much

01:03:15.120 more complex and rich and interesting than you even know. And Sharon, uh, I just want to say

01:03:19.740 again, you didn't deserve what happened to you. It's not the sum of your career. It's just a blip.

01:03:23.980 It's a ridiculous nonsense consequence of this crazy cancel culture that we're living in.

01:03:29.240 I think people see who you are and I'm so, so glad to meet you.

01:03:33.200 And I want to say to you too, I thank you for supporting me.

01:03:38.060 Oh, of course. Oh, of course. I hope we get to meet in person.

01:03:42.860 I'm going to give you a hug.

01:03:44.620 Oh, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling hugged.

01:03:46.780 Big hug.

01:03:47.760 Sending you so much love too. I hope we talk again.

01:03:51.160 Very soon.

01:03:52.480 Oh, what a doll to you too. Oh my God. That was all I hoped it would be and more.

01:03:59.520 If only the show were four hours. Um, you want to hear something sweet? Like she couldn't stay for

01:04:04.740 past the top of the hour. We had known that in advance. And, um, I just begged her to stay one extra

01:04:10.140 block because I just had to, I had to learn more about her. And our guest, Adam Curry has been such

01:04:14.780 a gentleman waiting. Um, he's next and he's fascinating. He's co-host of the no agenda podcast

01:04:20.400 and one of the very first ever podcasters might be the first. Um, so he's going to join us next

01:04:26.900 on the state of the industry and some other interesting stuff. Stay tuned.

01:04:30.020 Adam Curry was one of the most recognizable faces on MTV in the eighties and nineties until he shifted

01:04:40.820 gears in the early two thousands as one of the earliest adopters of the podcast medium. That

01:04:46.720 is why they call him the pod father. I love that. He was ahead of the game then. And he continues to be

01:04:53.260 on where our media is headed on Bitcoin and things like that. And more. He's a truly independent thinker

01:04:59.700 and political independent. He's talked to anyone and everyone of cultural importance over the past

01:05:04.480 several decades. And he is my guest now, Adam, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure

01:05:09.460 to be here, Megan. It was really nice to be able to hear Sharon for a, for good hour there. I haven't

01:05:14.280 seen her in over 30 years when we went to Moscow together. Oh my gosh. She's so fascinating. We didn't

01:05:20.400 even scratch the surface. You know, it's like the, the rock and roll years. I've got so much more to do

01:05:25.200 on that. And also, you know, knowing Sharon from then 1988 for the Moscow music peace festival and

01:05:31.680 seeing her now, she looks better now than she did 30 years ago. And I don't, maybe it's that,

01:05:37.100 it's that genuine sell stuff you're, you're putting on her. She admits, you know, she, unlike the

01:05:43.060 Kardashian, she admits what she's had done. I have to say, I appreciate that about her. You know,

01:05:47.040 you don't want like the little girls at home thinking, I hate the fact that they're led to believe

01:05:50.640 by anybody that those Kardashian boobs and bottoms are real. Hello, they're not. Um, okay. So let me

01:05:56.380 get, there's so many. There was also something else interesting, if you don't mind. No, no, not at

01:06:00.520 all. There's a little bit, I think there's more to what's happened, what happened with her, this vortex

01:06:04.400 that she's in with, um, with CBS, because I think in America, certainly there's no end to, uh, how far

01:06:11.560 the political system or corporations will go to benefit from race, gender, sexuality, political

01:06:19.400 affiliation. And she's caught in this vortex. And I think Oprah is not innocent in this. I did a

01:06:24.440 three hour show about the interview with, uh, with, uh, Markle and, uh, with, uh, Harry. And, um,

01:06:31.960 I believe that that was a direct attack on the British Royal family. Uh, you know, the question

01:06:39.180 that was obviously staged, put in there, like, Oh my gosh, Bill was worried about the color of the

01:06:44.060 child. Uh, I think that was an attack to get BLM black lives matter. Some stuff started in the UK.

01:06:49.380 And it did pay off. And I think that this is a tale of it. As Sharon said, that was their jewel

01:06:54.640 and they didn't really get enough juice out of it the first time with the interview. And I think

01:06:58.880 this is just trying to follow on. Seems obvious to me.

01:07:02.040 That seems absolutely possible because I will say, I love when people are like, Oprah, she got so much

01:07:07.940 out of her. I'm like, are you people stupid? Do you understand Oprah Winfrey does not sit down for

01:07:12.180 an interview without having a very top level producer sit down with the person she's going to be

01:07:16.700 interviewing who gets all the news nuggets and then gives them to Oprah. And then Oprah's job

01:07:21.240 as an actress, which she is, is to make it look organic.

01:07:25.640 That's Meghan Markle.

01:07:26.480 Right. These are two actresses putting on a show. The whole thing was choreographed. Nothing there

01:07:30.740 was organic. Absolutely not one thing. And the rest of us are supposed to be like, Oh, what a

01:07:35.760 beautiful, spontaneous, you know, baloney, baloney. Here's my bridge in Brooklyn.

01:07:40.720 Mo Fax and I, we saw black queen attack white queen. That's what we saw.

01:07:47.440 Wait, who? Oh, I get it. I'm up to speed. Yes, exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. Without the courage

01:07:53.660 to actually press for real answers. Right. She asked once like who? And she didn't answer. Well,

01:07:58.320 then you got all those questions should have had follow ups like, well, who was jealous of Meghan Markle

01:08:03.500 when she came back from Australia? Who specifically made a face? Who, you know, can you tell us the person

01:08:08.600 who alleged the objective of the skin color? That's why they don't ask you to do these things,

01:08:10.620 Meghan. That's obvious. Can I tell you, Adam? So I tweeted out something like this that night

01:08:14.800 saying like, why didn't Oprah say, well, was it, was it the queen? Can you rule out the queen? Can

01:08:18.580 you rule out Prince Philip who's dying right now as the alleged racists? Something to press her.

01:08:23.660 And people said, guess what they said to me? You're a racist for criticizing Oprah. Okay. Well,

01:08:28.580 yeah, exactly. But, but, but, but, you know, we're, we're in this, in this world right now where

01:08:34.060 you can get, Americans are very, very nice in our hearts. You know, the worst thing you can do is

01:08:38.960 call an American, even though Sharon's not American, but I consider her American enough.

01:08:42.820 You call us a racist. That's like, that's, that's so deep. That's so traumatizing. And the, the,

01:08:48.040 the shameless profiting on these scenarios by mainly mainstream media and, and the political

01:08:54.280 establishment is, is really beyond the pale at this point. So, and it's such an incredibly powerful

01:09:01.360 lever, you know, the cancel culture, it is literally using, um, advertisers, abusing the

01:09:07.480 fact that advertisers want to be brand safe and whether it's on social media or anywhere else,

01:09:11.600 um, to get you kicked off because of the money. And that's, that's all that it's about, but it has

01:09:16.340 a deeper underlying current, I'm afraid. And that's really to control everything. And if you can control,

01:09:21.980 um, are you familiar with ESG, uh, uh, environmental social governance? This is a real big thing on

01:09:28.240 wall street right now. Um, so everyone has to have an ESG. Is this like, uh, the activist corporations,

01:09:32.740 the social, socially activists? You get points for being woke. You get points for, uh, displaying

01:09:38.660 black lives matter. You get points for your greenness and you're uninvestable. Oh yeah. And

01:09:45.180 you're uninvestable if you don't have these elements and you don't hit the score, which is

01:09:50.420 completely put together by black rock themselves. You know, they got, they got all their little NGOs they

01:09:55.980 put together. So now it behooves everybody to speak woke, to speak green, because that's how

01:10:02.700 the investments flow, whether they believe it or not. And I never, look, the business of America

01:10:07.640 is business. And, uh, I don't think they have any shame. Corporations probably shouldn't really,

01:10:13.060 uh, they should be completely just going after the money, but they are really on one hand hurting

01:10:18.160 themselves to help this control because you can make anyone do every, anything you want. If you have

01:10:23.760 those, those three elements. Well, this is, I think you're right in the case of Sharon Osbourne,

01:10:27.760 and I could name some other cases too, in which race has been weaponized, right? It gets weaponized

01:10:33.760 against a target. And we see, we've seen the same in the Me Too movement. It's what happened to Brett

01:10:37.500 Kavanaugh. Um, and it totally undermines the legitimate claims, but that brings me to something

01:10:43.180 that's in the news today, which is Dave Chappelle. What's happening to him is very interesting,

01:10:47.460 right? He does these massively successful series of shows for Netflix, like 20 million bucks,

01:10:53.740 a show he's getting, I think. And the sixth, and I believe finals now coming out. And he does a bit

01:10:59.640 saying he's with JK Rowling on the whole trans thing. And, you know, what, what a woman is,

01:11:04.940 what a woman isn't, and so on. And now there's been some pushback inside of Netflix with,

01:11:09.120 with a trans activist and a couple of other people actually trying to storm some meeting of Netflix

01:11:13.640 executives. And they promptly got suspended. And I said, good for you, Netflix. And Netflix is refusing

01:11:18.460 to pull it. So, so far Netflix is showing a real spine, um, but it's become yet another cultural

01:11:23.980 moment.

01:11:24.580 Yeah. You saw it. I presume, uh, I watched it. Uh, I couldn't wait for it to drop. I watched it and

01:11:30.560 every review I've read or, yeah, I think just about every single one I've read that was negative,

01:11:34.680 um, usually somewhere three quarters, the way through it. Uh, the, uh, the reviewer will write,

01:11:40.440 well, I had to turn it off at that point. I just, I couldn't stand it anymore. I had to turn it off.

01:11:44.200 So I don't think you can, yeah, it was a GQ magazine, uh, uh, a gay black man that wrote a,

01:11:49.860 literally wrote that, you know, it's like, Oh, I just couldn't, I had to turn it off and this,

01:11:53.500 and suck. But I think that if anyone is capable of watching the entire special,

01:11:59.560 near the end, the whole, that was truly to me, the closer where he talks about,

01:12:05.020 and I haven't seen this spoken about anywhere in any of the reviews where he talks about,

01:12:08.460 uh, a comedian, a trans woman who became his friend and in a very odd and very public way.

01:12:14.900 And they were good friends for years. Um, and what, and he asserts that she killed herself,

01:12:21.860 uh, due to the incredible outrage and pressure from trans women and allies.

01:12:29.560 You know, that's not discussed in the reviews. Cause that was his point. He's like,

01:12:33.380 we all need to go easy on this. Let's all back off for a second. And instead

01:12:36.980 of focusing on typical, you know, we don't focus on the content of the character. We focus on the

01:12:42.000 color of your skin, uh, the what's between your legs and, uh, and how you describe them.

01:12:47.460 So it's, that's all I'm seeing. And it's very, very, I think years we'll look back and we'll go,

01:12:54.460 look at this piece of crap that someone wrote. Didn't even watch the series, did the special.

01:12:58.320 It was so crazy because Dave Chappelle, like people pick whatever it is that they're going to

01:13:02.660 either genuinely be outraged about or, or present faux outrage. But the sticks and stone special was

01:13:08.660 a piece of brilliance. Right. And he touched on every third rail there was to touch on. He was

01:13:14.060 saying that he doesn't believe the Michael Jackson accusers. I could do a whole show on that by the

01:13:17.540 way. Um, because there are definitely holes in the stories of the two accusers. Uh, right. So I'm not

01:13:22.500 defending Michael Jackson as overall, but I'm telling you there are major problems with the

01:13:26.480 backstories. I'm defending him. He was asexual. Believe me. Well, that's, I mean, well, we can

01:13:31.320 get into it because I actually went in all my spare time, Adam, this is what I do with my spare time.

01:13:35.100 I went, I pulled the court files on Woody Allen. At one point I went, I pulled the court files on

01:13:39.140 Michael Jackson at one point. And I will tell you that what that one guy, the guy who was the

01:13:43.020 choreographer, he had so many problems in his history. This guy was under, he was filing a lawsuit

01:13:48.720 against the Jackson estate. They said, do you ever write a book on Michael Jackson? He said,

01:13:52.140 Nope. They said, Hmm, let's just call around a random house and everybody else and make sure

01:13:56.280 that's not true. Well, sure enough, he had submitted something. Then he was told by the

01:13:59.520 court. If you have drafts of that, including metadata on your computer, computer, turn it

01:14:03.220 over. He lied. They got their hands on a computer. They found all sorts of metadata. He had tried to

01:14:08.220 change it before he turned over. I'm just saying lots of lies in that guy's history in dealing with

01:14:12.480 courts. So you tell me whether he'd tell the truth to a documentary maker. It wasn't a documentary.

01:14:16.820 You should do a podcast about this. I know I should. I should. Because I like to touch the

01:14:22.740 third rails too. What everybody neglects is Michael Jackson owned one of the largest music

01:14:28.620 catalogs, much to the chagrin of Sony, CBS, Columbia, much to the chagrin of Paul McCartney

01:14:36.520 even. It was part of his songs and Michael Jackson owned that. And they tried to get it back in that

01:14:43.420 way. And I personally believe he was killed for it.

01:14:46.820 Wow. Wow. What? What do you mean? Killed by Conrad Murray?

01:14:50.820 Yeah. Well, I mean, the actual method is not that important. But of course he was, I mean,

01:14:55.240 Conrad Murray was actually convicted of, you know, of manslaughter, I think, because he did kill him.

01:15:00.940 That's the doctor who kept giving him the, what's the drug? Propofol that knocks you out.

01:15:04.760 Propofol. Yeah. But just anyway, and I'd said this, of course, MSNBC called me. It was the last time I was

01:15:10.540 ever on MSNBC. And they said, well, you know, the day he died. Well, I said, well,

01:15:14.640 I haven't, has anyone questioned whether he was murdered? And they hung up on me. And that was

01:15:19.340 the last I ever spoke of that publicly.

01:15:23.100 All right. So my point back to Chappelle, he, he said he doesn't believe the Jackson accusers. He

01:15:28.240 said in that documentary, he made fun, not made fun, but sort of made jokes about school shootings,

01:15:33.980 school shootings. So he'll touch anything. And that's what people love about him. He touches the

01:15:38.560 untouchable. The things you could never laugh about. He somehow helps you find a way.

01:15:43.340 That's what we love in our comedians and always have, except now.

01:15:47.200 Well, except now, right, where he's got to be canceled. I have to say props to Netflix,

01:15:51.780 right? Like they're one of the only companies who just gave the middle finger to the activist saying,

01:15:55.640 protest all you want. It stands.

01:15:58.200 Yeah. And I don't think that they care one way or the other. They care about money. This is great for

01:16:02.380 Netflix. I'm not going to say, oh, boy, oh, they're so great now. They've done a lot of not so

01:16:07.160 great things. There's many comedians who cannot get a special on Netflix because they're not Dave

01:16:12.160 Chappelle. They are good, but they use certain words and that are not acceptable. And that's

01:16:17.380 predefined. And so it's just have they been weak? Has Netflix been one of the weak woke warriors?

01:16:22.400 Of course. Of course. Yeah. OK, so I take back my props, but I'm glad they stood by Dave Chappelle

01:16:27.660 because I want to see the specials. I want it to be ongoing. Right. It's like, all right, enough of

01:16:32.000 that. Let's talk about Matthew McConaughey and whether he has any real chance of running for

01:16:36.340 or winning as governor of Texas, because he comes out now and says, I'll do it if needed.

01:16:40.900 To me, it's interesting because Governor Greg Abbott should be a conservative's dream.

01:16:45.020 I mean, he's done so much down there that they should love, but they don't really seem to be

01:16:49.040 totally in love with him. Because Greg Abbott has an opinion and what what Texans want. I've been here

01:16:55.800 for 11 years. Texans just want some. It's not a hard job. You can be governor. I can be governor.

01:17:00.140 You have some minor requirements. Matthew can be governor. Just follow the Constitution of the

01:17:06.400 United States and follow the Constitution of the state of Texas. That's all that it is. And so when

01:17:10.960 we and I'll say we when we have an issue at the border, Governor Abbott should have followed this

01:17:17.500 Texas state constitution. And I think arguably the U.S. Constitution and should be defending the border.

01:17:23.200 That's just one small thing. There's many other things. The lockdown was very traumatizing for

01:17:30.200 Texans, for everybody, of course. But that was something very new. And there are multiple

01:17:35.980 cities and municipalities who are now claiming that they are a sanctuary city for business. And never

01:17:41.740 again will the federal government or the state of Texas even shut down their businesses for any

01:17:46.620 reason other than the decisions they make themselves. So could Matthew do it?

01:17:50.800 What about McConaughey came out and said he he was talking to Kara Swisher, who's you know,

01:17:56.500 she's definitely. I heard it. Sway. I heard it. And on Sway. And he said. Listen, I love it. I hate

01:18:01.680 listening to to Kara Swisher. I know. I love her. I have to say she's one of those people whose politics

01:18:07.400 I don't share at all. But I love the woman herself. She's such ballsy. She's just tough as nails. And I

01:18:11.860 like that. She asked him about mask mandates and he supports them. I'm like, well, there goes your Texas

01:18:18.280 gubernatorial career. Yeah, I think so, too. What is happening in Texas? Just my my view of it is

01:18:23.500 the Democrats are really, really smart. They've done some incredibly smart things here. And I'm not

01:18:29.500 still haven't figured out exactly how. But the the abortion law that went into effect, this is far

01:18:37.340 beyond what I think most Texans would really care about. They're like in general, I think Texans like,

01:18:44.040 you know, whatever. Personally, I have issues about, you know, the the age of an unborn child

01:18:51.180 when you're going to abort that. But they somehow that this law got put into place. And I think

01:18:57.140 everybody says, well, you know, come on, man, a heartbeat that could be just a few weeks. And

01:19:01.900 that's really, you know, you're pushing it here. I think that's moderate. Moderates would agree with

01:19:06.720 that. And they're going to use this. This is the whole idea. Then bringing in Matthew. That's that's

01:19:14.420 part of their strategy. Do I think it'll work? No, absolutely not. Good try. And I think he's a

01:19:19.380 great actor. I think he's a good guy. And and again, he could do it. All he has to do is just follow

01:19:24.420 follow the scripts, you know, follow the Constitution. Anybody can do that. And so far,

01:19:29.660 Governor Abbott has not really shown that any. And also during the the snowmageddon that we had,

01:19:37.820 we were out without power for four or five days. It was quite a shocker to be in Texas and looking

01:19:42.680 for a snow shovel and winding up with a trowel. And but he's not been honest about what really

01:19:48.960 happened. And I'm concerned about that. You know, this is this was more like Enron in California

01:19:55.420 turning power off than it was about our crappy grid or the windmills froze. Yeah. All contributed

01:20:02.420 to the problem. But it was, again, purely about money. And he knows it. ERCOT is a scam, a sham.

01:20:07.940 And he's appointing new people. We'll see what happens. But it's it's I don't personally think

01:20:14.820 he's that great. No, he's not that popular. And, you know, look, I I'm up here. I'm a Yankee,

01:20:19.240 you know, so I don't know. But I just know what I read in the papers.

01:20:21.300 Um, although, you know, half my team is in Texas. They're backing you up on the things

01:20:26.200 you're saying in my ear, by the way. Um, let's talk about Elon Musk. He's moving from California.

01:20:30.800 He's doing sort of he's pulling a not exactly he's pulling a Joe Rogan, right? He's leaving

01:20:35.480 California and going to Austin where you are, I think, uh, Tesla sort of nearby and taking Tesla

01:20:42.720 with him. Um, so what does this say and mean and do? I don't think it's going to change Gavin

01:20:47.560 Newsom's worldview, but your thoughts. Uh, well, first, uh, I was in Austin for 11 years

01:20:53.320 and Tina, my wife and I, we left Austin, uh, before the summer to reenter the state of Texas.

01:20:59.160 Uh, before that happened though, I had actually, I, I, I am responsible for bringing Joe to Austin.

01:21:04.360 He was thinking about Dallas to no man, you totally belong here. And I think he's a great asset to,

01:21:09.360 uh, to Austin. Austin is not weird enough for me anymore with, uh, it's not just, uh, Tesla,

01:21:14.820 but we also have Oracle, we have Google, we have Facebook. And, uh, for me personally,

01:21:19.840 I'm 57. So, um, I, I don't need to be sitting in Joe's cafe, uh, having a grilled cheese and hear

01:21:27.960 a couple of guys talk about their SPACs behind me. And so I I'm done with that. Uh, I'm not,

01:21:32.500 not interested. And when it comes to Elon, who I also know we shared investors, um, uh, back in the

01:21:40.340 early days of, uh, of podcasting. And I was at the launch of the first Tesla. Um, he's the Kim

01:21:46.900 Kardashian of tech. He's a really good pitchman. Um, he's, he's not, he's not insincere. Uh, but is

01:21:53.800 he the, uh, you know, is he the genius that is doing all this? No, no, uh, Elon Musk is a, oh no.

01:22:00.860 Uh, his space X is, is an extension of space forces expansion of NASA. These are big government

01:22:07.720 contracts. Um, I don't think that Elon, he's not that impressive to me. It seems like a nice guy,

01:22:13.760 um, very quiet when I met him, but, um, yeah, he's, he's a, he's a bit of a Barnum guy, you know,

01:22:19.420 he's, he pitches stuff and he shakes it up when he has to, and is very good at it. And, uh, he has,

01:22:25.140 you know, he has a momager. Just look at his mom. Who's been there his whole career. Yeah.

01:22:30.620 But that's, that's kind of the, the comparison I make. And that's not bad. I think Kim Kardashian's

01:22:35.840 fine too. You know, I enjoyed her on SNL. I especially enjoyed her joke about her having

01:22:40.840 50 million people following her and only 10 million viewers, which turned out to be only

01:22:45.820 4 million viewers. I thought that was pretty funny. She's more popular on social media.

01:22:50.400 They wish SNL that they could get her social media following. No kidding. I interviewed all the

01:22:54.620 Kardashians at this one. And they were all sitting there at once, Adam, like all of them. And I just

01:22:59.860 didn't even know where to look. It was like beauty, beauty, beauty. Like everybody, Kendall,

01:23:04.040 Kendall, the model, she had a skirt on that was, it looked more like a belt. It was so tiny. And I

01:23:11.500 could see basically her ass. And all I could think was, why can't I have that?

01:23:18.820 And then I thought, Oh, I like eating too much.

01:23:20.320 Look at you. One of the most beautiful women in media. And you're saying that no pass,

01:23:25.860 no pass for saying that, but I'm telling you that there's, it hasn't looked like that down

01:23:29.620 South in Rio on me ever. Um, okay. Uh, so that, so that's Elon. Um, can I ask you about Bitcoin?

01:23:36.540 I confess, I don't know much about it. I had one show I had Eric Bowling on. He explained it to me

01:23:41.820 a little, and he said, buy it. And then he said, it was going to cost me $50,000. And I said,

01:23:45.360 really? But I know you're big on it. And I, can you give us like the Bitcoin one-on-one,

01:23:51.240 your thoughts of Bitcoin, Bitcoin one-on-one. And so in a way that everybody can understand

01:23:56.080 what we're talking about, because now more and more seems like people are getting behind it,

01:24:00.240 including the, like our government seems to be favoring it. Uh, not so much the Chinese,

01:24:04.640 but you tell me whether this is a good investment and why.

01:24:07.420 Okay. So it's impossible to explain Bitcoin one-on-one people have to do their, their own

01:24:12.400 work to understand all the ins and outs of it. And that's mainly because our Western central banking

01:24:17.860 reserve, fractional reserve banking system is very complex, hard to understand, um, and is

01:24:24.360 completely corrupt. So, um, what is happening is, uh, and well, here's a simple example in the

01:24:31.760 seventies, uh, you might remember the jump for Toyota commercial. Um, that was, uh, and the truck at the

01:24:38.260 time costs $5,000. So now look at where we are. The truck from Toyota costs 10 times that much as

01:24:43.780 50,000, that's inflation. And that happens for a whole bunch of reasons, but it's accelerating.

01:24:48.360 And it's been happening on a much larger scale, certainly since 2009, uh, where the dollar is

01:24:53.780 literally becoming worth less than it was. Um, and, uh, and that makes your, uh, your salary,

01:25:01.280 you know, you're buying your purchasing power less on an ongoing basis at the same time,

01:25:06.240 housing costs expand or explode, et cetera. So there's a group of older millennials, 28,

01:25:12.160 29, who I work with mostly now in, uh, because we're doing streaming Bitcoin for podcasting so

01:25:17.440 people can get paid in real time. Um, oh yeah. I want to get you on that. Um, these people were

01:25:24.640 born in the early nineties. They were born in the Gulf war. Um, I know my daughter is now 31. You know,

01:25:30.380 she was in the, her little cradle there sitting watching, uh, you know, Baghdad, Bob and everything

01:25:35.480 happening. And then, um, of course we had nine 11. Well, if you're eight, nine, 10 years old,

01:25:40.360 that's super, super traumatizing, but don't worry about it. We're going to go invade the wrong

01:25:45.340 country. So they went through all of that. Well, everything's going to be fine. People

01:25:49.360 is going to be good. And we've, we've got a new president coming in and we're going to fix

01:25:52.880 everything. And then we had the, the great depression since, or the great recession since

01:25:58.400 the great depression, and we're going to fix all that. And we printed up a bunch of money and did a

01:26:02.500 bunch of things and we didn't fix it. And now we have this group of young people coming out of

01:26:07.480 college, $15 an hour jobs. If they're lucky, uh, a hundred thousand dollars in debt, no future.

01:26:13.620 And Oh, by the way, their peers are telling them they're going to die in 11 years from climate change.

01:26:17.860 So they are opting out of this system and they're doing that with Bitcoin. They're doing it with

01:26:23.740 Bitcoin and they are creating an entire, um, uh, financial system that does not require banks.

01:26:32.520 In fact, you are your own bank. It is financial sovereignty. It is not blockable, bannable,

01:26:38.380 turn offable, any of the things they're saying. And so governments have a choice. Either they

01:26:43.140 fight it and go down and lose their currency with it. Now the dollar is a big one, so that's not going

01:26:48.420 to be that easy, but you have smaller ones who were already crushed by the banking system,

01:26:52.540 such as El Salvador, who just made Bitcoin an official currency and Brazil is rumored about it.

01:26:58.240 Um, so the technology behind Bitcoin makes it so that mathematically, if you put in $1 into Bitcoin

01:27:06.760 and you don't have to buy 50,000, you can buy $1 worth of Bitcoin anywhere. You don't have to buy a

01:27:11.560 whole Bitcoin. You can buy little pieces of it. Mathematically, that will be worth much more in

01:27:18.160 five to 10 years from now. That's just mathematically true. Um, it, because that's how the protocol was

01:27:24.380 built. So instead of a federal reserve raising and lowering interest rates, um, it's built into

01:27:29.840 Bitcoin and it can only go one way. It's a deflationary currency because it's limited in supply. When you

01:27:35.640 can't print anymore, that's it. So we're seeing, I think, uh, sadly, uh, we're being helped by George

01:27:43.480 Soros because, you know, he's the guy that brought down the pound, uh, literally shorted the pound,

01:27:48.780 almost broke the bank of England. I think his, uh, uh, his coup de grace, his, uh, cherry on top

01:27:54.040 will be to break the U S dollar. And I think he actually may be behind a lot of the, uh, some of

01:27:59.200 the purchasing of Bitcoin that's happening right now. And they've certainly have, uh, have said they

01:28:03.440 are, uh, are, are, are accumulating, accumulating, but the good thing is even if he can help break

01:28:09.420 America, the dollar or whatever, which, you know, that may not happen in my life lifetime, but it could

01:28:14.200 all fiat currencies have gone away throughout history. Um, he won't be the only one. He won't

01:28:20.960 be the richest guy. There'll be lots of other people. My wife and I have Bitcoin. You can have

01:28:25.320 Bitcoin and everybody can have some, um, and be on that same level. And there's no, um, no financial

01:28:31.880 controls from the government, the way the treasury and the federal reserve exert on the American people,

01:28:37.740 which they've done. And they just say, shut up. It's just temporary inflation.

01:28:41.700 Fascinating. Might be. I've never seen it go down. Like, you know, after something like this,

01:28:45.800 it's a great, it's a great two, two minute pitch. I want to just clarify what I said. JP Morgan

01:28:50.560 Chase is backing it saying cryptocurrency, uh, is a better hedge than gold. So far there with our

01:28:56.720 federal government, they haven't done much, but they're, they're weighing a regulatory crypto

01:29:00.980 crackdown according to reports of weighing it. Listen, Adam, crypto is not Bitcoin. Not exactly the

01:29:06.420 same. Oh, well, we'll pick that. It says Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, whatever.

01:29:10.380 Uh, that might be included in the executive order. All right. Longer. Sorry. We got to pick

01:29:15.560 this up because I need more time with you. I needed more time with Sharon. I need more time

01:29:19.120 on the show. I need four hours. I got to start the show earlier, but this was so great. I love

01:29:23.140 meeting you. Thank you for coming on. My pleasure. And, uh, I look forward to coming back and, uh,

01:29:28.360 laying some real podcasting 2.0 smack on you. Yes. Yes. Let's not say goodbye. Let's say

01:29:33.420 to be continued. Uh, in the meantime, download the Megyn Kelly show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify,

01:29:38.440 and Stitcher. Got a great show for you tomorrow too. See you then.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 12, 2021

Sharon Osbourne on Her ＂The Talk＂ Exit and Marriage, and Adam Curry on Cancel Culture and Dave Chappelle ｜ Ep. 179

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