The Megyn Kelly Show - Shawn Ryan and Charlie Sheen - Megyn Kelly's ＂Double Feature＂ of Fascinating Interviews

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00:01:11.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:23.660 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show and today's double feature

00:01:27.700 Sunday mega episode. Today we're bringing you the very first conversation I ever had with two

00:01:33.500 fascinating people with whom I've developed friendships since these interactions you're

00:01:37.920 about to listen to. The first is Sean Ryan. When Sean flew into our studio two years ago,

00:01:44.340 I didn't know what to expect, but the two hour conversation we had blew me away. I just love

00:01:48.900 this guy. Professionally speaking, I just adore him. He was so open and honest in ways that many

00:01:54.640 aren't, and his life story from the Navy SEALs to crime committing, as he put it, to finding God and

00:02:01.340 redemption started our beautiful journey together. I recently saw Sean, as you may have seen, when I

00:02:07.640 took a trip down to his studio in Nashville last month, which involved three and a half hours of

00:02:12.260 conversation and a lot of shooting guns, which was super fun. You can go check that out on his feed

00:02:17.900 and enjoy, but you'll listen to our first meeting today, which was very, very deep and insightful

00:02:22.960 on his part. Then there's Charlie Sheen. Charlie came in last year for an interview about his life

00:02:28.440 and career, and it became very clear why he was, for a time, the biggest star in Hollywood.

00:02:33.640 Since this interview, we got a chance to meet in person during the MK Live tour last year,

00:02:37.780 and he delighted our entire in auditorium audience and beyond. And I would imagine that

00:02:45.660 our conversations will continue in the future. I certainly hope so. Enjoy, and we'll see you Monday.

00:02:51.900 On Memorial Day, we remember and honor the men and women who have died while in military service.

00:02:57.220 Every year, we welcome a military veteran here on this show to share their story. And today,

00:03:02.700 I'm very excited to talk to Sean Ryan for the very first time. Sean's a former U.S. Navy SEAL

00:03:08.340 and CIA contractor with 14 years of service, spanning multiple combat operations. He is also

00:03:15.320 the host of the hugely popular The Sean Ryan Show, where he has an audience of millions on YouTube,

00:03:21.720 podcast platforms, and more. This is where he goes in-depth, and I mean in-depth, with a host of

00:03:28.120 guests for fascinating conversations on a whole range of subjects. Sean developed the show to

00:03:33.240 document the untold stories of war, loss, and redemption, and he does that and much, much more.

00:03:39.080 glad to welcome him here in person for this special episode sean welcome thank you for having

00:03:48.280 me thank you for your service to get to get kick it off oh thank you for saying that yeah appreciate

00:03:53.980 that no i appreciate it too it's it's it's hard on memorial day because it's it's a solemn day

00:03:58.440 right but people are out there trying to get their big tv and i understand that right people

00:04:04.740 are like, they work hard and they, but you got to take a moment or an hour or two just to stop

00:04:10.600 and think about why you have the freedom to shop where you want and wear what you want and say

00:04:14.160 what you want and do what you want. And that boils down to you guys, you and the friends

00:04:17.840 you've lost. Well, thank you. So let's talk about you and your background and how you wound up a

00:04:23.960 Navy SEAL because it takes a certain kind of person. I know this from my many interviews of

00:04:29.620 SEALs over the years. It's not like, you're not normal people. I think that's fair to say. Am I

00:04:35.660 wrong? I think that's fair to say. Okay. And so when, tell us what you were like as a child,

00:04:41.100 because there are always some signs of a future Navy SEAL in there, whether it's a rebellious kid

00:04:46.120 or a leader or obsessive about something. Jocko said his parents wouldn't let him quit anything.

00:04:51.980 Like if he took up knitting, they wouldn't let him quit knitting. So looking back at your own

00:04:56.580 childhood, were there signs of the future you there? There probably were. I was definitely very

00:05:03.280 rebellious, not a great student, not a great listener, very creative, and just not very

00:05:14.780 academic at all. So the teams, the SEAL teams were kind of came on my radar. I don't remember

00:05:24.400 exactly but i was always infatuated with the military uh i was when i was growing up the

00:05:29.080 gulf war was going on and and uh i remember picking up all the magazines and all that stuff

00:05:35.340 and just and just looking at all the pictures really into gi joes and uh and it got to the

00:05:44.220 point where when i got to high school i just like i said i wasn't an academics guy i didn't

00:05:50.600 I wasn't interested in school, and I definitely wasn't going to do well in college, so I decided to look into the military.

00:06:01.460 Alternatives.

00:06:02.280 Did you come from a military family?

00:06:05.000 Not exactly.

00:06:05.880 I mean, my dad did serve.

00:06:07.200 He was a pharmacist in the Army, so definitely a totally different role, different direction.

00:06:15.560 Had no interest in the medical field at all.

00:06:17.520 So, so I started looking at the Marine Corps. I wanted to be a recon guy. They wouldn't let me in. I went to the Army, wanted to be a Green Beret, wouldn't let me in. And the Navy recruiter kind of stuck his head out and asked if I'd ever heard of the SEAL teams, and I hadn't at the time.

00:06:37.460 So he gave me endless material to pick through, and so I did that very fast.

00:06:47.180 And when I realized what it was, it just captivated me.

00:06:52.540 So how does a guy who's not devoted to his academics, which does require the kind of tenacity and hard work you put in to become a SEAL,

00:07:00.600 find it in order to go through Bud's training and actually perform that elite level as a soldier?

00:07:07.460 I mean, I don't, it's just the only thing that caught my interest, you know?

00:07:11.540 And so nothing really in school caught my interest.

00:07:15.340 And I didn't, I never really felt challenged, I don't think.

00:07:19.520 And so, I mean, there was a multitude of things.

00:07:22.460 I wasn't the top performer out of my three siblings in sports or in academics.

00:07:31.240 Where were you in the birth order?

00:07:32.600 I'm first.

00:07:33.440 And where'd you grow up?

00:07:34.640 I grew up, we moved around a lot, but primarily Missouri.

00:07:38.340 Okay, keep going.

00:07:39.420 You're first.

00:07:40.420 Yeah, yeah, firstborn.

00:07:42.800 And so I got in there, and I mean, long story short, maybe we'll dive in,

00:07:51.140 but I just wanted to do something.

00:07:53.300 One, I wanted to serve my country,

00:07:55.000 and I wanted to finally give my parents a reason to be proud of me.

00:08:02.020 And so that kind of carried me through.

00:08:04.200 uh and were they like when you signed up at first were they what year would that have been

00:08:09.100 that would have been 2000 2000 no wait when i signed up it was 2001 okay right it was before

00:08:17.080 9-11 it was right before 9-11 i i went to the navy to boot camp in july of 2001 oh my gosh

00:08:25.000 little did you know what was about to happen to the country the world and you yeah um so were

00:08:32.220 your parents proud when you signed up? Were they? Uh, I think they were, they were definitely

00:08:36.620 worried. Uh, it surprised them. It kind of came out of left field. Um, and so, but, but once they

00:08:43.840 wrapped their head around it and saw that I was, I seem to be serious, they, they, they, they fully

00:08:49.580 supported it. See, that's how I feel. I would love for, I'll be sexist, my boys to serve, but I'd be

00:08:57.280 terrified if they actually said they were going to do it. I'd be in church every day, praying to

00:09:01.420 God lighting every candle in the church.

00:09:04.240 You know, I can see what your parents went through,

00:09:06.100 and I'm sure most parents go through that,

00:09:07.820 especially if it's not a lifelong military family.

00:09:10.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:11.100 I would, too.

00:09:12.040 I have two little ones now, so I get it.

00:09:15.700 And, you know, especially if you're looking at your kid,

00:09:17.740 and so far he's been kind of a knucklehead. 0.64

00:09:20.620 I don't think this kid should have a gun.

00:09:22.340 I'm not sure how this is going to go.

00:09:24.720 Very true.

00:09:25.420 So there had to be some concerns there.

00:09:27.340 And just out of curiosity, what did your siblings wind up doing?

00:09:30.980 My brother is in hospitality and my sister has her hair salon.

00:09:36.820 Okay, so they were not tempted to follow you down this road?

00:09:40.300 No.

00:09:40.860 All right.

00:09:41.340 So you decide to join up for military service, and not just any military service,

00:09:46.060 not just like, I don't know, the regular infantry with the Army.

00:09:50.160 You decide to go for Navy SEALs.

00:09:51.880 So inside, there's an overachiever just waiting to be born.

00:09:56.460 And did you know anything about how hard that was going to be?

00:10:00.740 I did once I started researching it.

00:10:03.300 I just, I didn't care.

00:10:04.840 I was just, I was going to do it.

00:10:07.700 And I felt great all the way up until I arrived at civil training.

00:10:14.860 In my mind, I was amazing right up until I started.

00:10:18.100 Exactly.

00:10:18.580 And I mean, when I got there, I was 18 and, you know, barely a man.

00:10:24.120 And when I got there, there were guys that had, there were Olympic athletes.

00:10:30.020 There were guys that had already been to war and come back.

00:10:34.680 Guys that had been to Panama, guys that had been to Iraq.

00:10:37.660 It was, it was championship boxers.

00:10:42.000 And, and I was probably about a buck, buck 30.

00:10:46.320 Wow.

00:10:47.240 So now is this why I read you got, you got laughed out of the, one of the recruiting offices.

00:10:52.460 Yeah, that would be the Army and the Marine Corps.

00:10:55.540 Yeah, okay, the Marine Corps told you no, hard to know.

00:10:57.980 This is a common story.

00:10:59.160 I've heard this from a few of our Navy sail buds

00:11:01.280 that they got laughed at when they tried to sign up.

00:11:04.680 What is it with the Army?

00:11:05.980 Are the Marines just like, hmm?

00:11:08.660 I think, I mean, it's just, you know,

00:11:10.780 it's pretty ambitious to walk in and say,

00:11:13.220 hey, I want to operate at the top level right away.

00:11:17.980 Yeah, right, right.

00:11:19.460 And they're kind of like, okay, guy,

00:11:21.260 pump the brakes, maybe do infantry, go the long route. And I just, I had no interest in

00:11:27.420 going the long route. I didn't want to do regular infantry. There's nothing wrong with that,

00:11:32.360 but I just wanted, I wanted the challenge. Do you remember back in those early days when you

00:11:38.220 were first starting to train, what jumped out at you amongst the guys who surrounded you? Like,

00:11:44.380 were there commonalities in this pocket of the world that were immediately noticeable as different?

00:11:50.740 Once I got to Bud's.

00:11:52.540 Or even when you just first signed up and started training.

00:11:54.700 Because you didn't go right to Bud's training, right?

00:11:56.080 You do normal training before.

00:11:57.440 You do normal training before.

00:11:58.720 I mean, I grew up in a town of 6,000 people, so there wasn't that many people that wanted to do this.

00:12:08.700 I remember the first time I met, they called him a SEAL motivator.

00:12:14.340 He was kind of a guy that would go around, I don't know, the country who was a SEAL.

00:12:19.900 and then now he's teaching you how to swim

00:12:24.660 and kind of refining some of your techniques with running and swimming

00:12:29.020 and some things that you might expect.

00:12:32.700 And he just carried himself different than anybody else I'd been around before.

00:12:40.860 So there's definitely a type.

00:12:44.140 Mm-hmm. Now knowing what you know, does that come from combat or just the grueling nature

00:12:52.880 of SEAL training? Like guys who are going through it today, can they get that without

00:12:57.020 actually going into combat like you have? Oh, I think so. I mean, I do believe that.

00:13:02.660 So the Navy will get it into you? They will. They'll figure out a way.

00:13:07.920 I'm thrilled and impressed and want to do it. A secret version of myself would love to try this.

00:13:12.640 I don't think I can. I can't really even make it through 10 minutes of jumping jacks in my hit

00:13:17.900 class. But in my mind, this could happen for me someday. And we've had lots of tough guys come on

00:13:25.360 here and talk about how the toughest guys they knew didn't make it through training, just couldn't

00:13:30.200 make it through. It's just a mind over matter kind of situation. But you're telling me you didn't

00:13:34.820 have anything in your past that told you you could put mind over matter and accomplish this.

00:13:40.640 no i didn't i didn't and um so it was i mean i was an 18 year old kid at buds and uh i it was

00:13:48.760 it was i mean it's scary to see who quits you know i mean you're seeing people that you look up to

00:13:57.020 people that i mean you you're constantly measuring up to somebody else and comparing yourself to

00:14:03.280 somebody else and going oh you know if that guy if that guy didn't make it i i don't i don't think

00:14:09.700 I have a chance. And so you just put your head down and drive on and try to make it to the next

00:14:15.980 meal, try to make it to the next day and, and, uh, and just keep driving on. And, and, and it,

00:14:22.400 it, I get to the point where I did, I wanted to quit, but, um, but I, I could not, I could not

00:14:29.900 face calling my parents and tell them that I, I had failed again. Oh, wow. So yeah, I've had guys

00:14:37.920 say there's no way I was going to see my father's name on that hat and ring that bell. Nope, not me.

00:14:45.440 So you, you talked a little bit about your upbringing. Was it a modest upbringing? Like

00:14:50.760 what kind of childhood did you have? Yeah. Uh, I mean, I would say upper middle class, uh,

00:14:58.080 upbringing and small town. We moved around a lot, probably moved over 10 times, um, in my childhood,

00:15:05.280 But we finally settled in Missouri in a small farm town known as Chillicothe, Missouri, and haven't been back there in several years.

00:15:15.140 But I liked full contact sports, tried football, was too small, couldn't make it, got into wrestling, was a mediocre wrestler, nothing, no state championships or anything like that.

00:15:29.160 Just kind of an average kid, troublemaker, really into booze and partying.

00:15:36.900 And, yeah, I mean, that was my childhood.

00:15:42.180 Did you have strict parents?

00:15:44.120 They tried to be strict, but—

00:15:47.600 You managed to find ways around it.

00:15:49.080 I would—

00:15:49.920 That was the future CAA contractor.

00:15:52.000 The foundation was being laid.

00:15:53.880 Little did they know this is important research for you.

00:15:55.940 Yeah, good point, good point.

00:15:57.340 But, yeah, I mean, they were definitely against a lot of the things that I was doing.

00:16:02.480 They were not happy that I was drinking.

00:16:06.500 They were not happy with some of the crowd that I was running around with.

00:16:10.180 They were not happy with my grades.

00:16:13.140 And, yeah, like I said, when it came time to make some decisions on what I'm going to do with my future,

00:16:21.460 I had to take a hard look, and so I went the military around.

00:16:28.340 I was just talking to Riley Gaines not long ago.

00:16:31.240 She was talking about how she's this competitive swimmer,

00:16:34.260 and now she's an activist on the trans insanity that's happening to women. 0.94

00:16:38.160 And she was talking about how her dad put her in the pool one time

00:16:41.040 and just made her be in that pool for some eight to ten minutes, freezing cold.

00:16:45.040 It was not a summer pool.

00:16:46.800 He pulled off the cover during the winter and made her get in.

00:16:49.400 And it was an exercise in mental toughness, you know, just to, like, you're not cold.

00:16:53.300 You got to get, that's you guys, you do, you do that every day during SEAL training.

00:16:57.740 When you're a SEAL, it's horrid and it is somewhat tortuous from what I've heard.

00:17:03.280 So when you finally see yourself in those situations, how do you, how do you say I'm

00:17:08.520 not quitting?

00:17:08.960 How do you get through?

00:17:09.620 How do you get from minute 10 to minute 11 to minute 12?

00:17:14.340 I mean, it, you just have to dig deep.

00:17:17.840 I mean, it's not, it's not, it is very physical, but it's more mental.

00:17:23.300 And so everybody, everybody in training is going to break.

00:17:27.780 They're just, it's going to happen.

00:17:29.360 And it just, you get to this point where you go numb.

00:17:37.240 You get to this point where you go numb and, and then it just doesn't matter anymore.

00:17:42.060 Nobody, nobody really quits after, I think Wednesday night is the day where it's very,

00:17:47.280 very rare for anybody to quit, but it's just, it's breaking time down.

00:17:52.960 And instead of going, I'm going to make it through this entire six months, it's I'm going to make it to hell week.

00:18:00.160 And then when you get to hell week, it's I'm just going to make it to the next meal or I'm going to make it to the next med check.

00:18:06.420 And and by Wednesday night, I mean, you you haven't slept.

00:18:11.020 Remind me of when it starts.

00:18:12.400 It starts.

00:18:13.180 I think it starts on Sunday night and I believe it's done Friday night.

00:18:17.700 OK, it's five days with minimal sleep.

00:18:22.500 But your muscles break down, you get, what do they call it, elephantitis, your ankle starts swelling up.

00:18:32.060 Oh, I had that when I was pregnant.

00:18:33.420 Oh, really?

00:18:34.000 No, I mean, it just happens naturally.

00:18:36.280 Everything swells up.

00:18:37.420 Yeah, but it's doing those little time hacks and just breaking it down and making it to the next meal, making it to the next med check, checking your buddies.

00:18:49.540 By Wednesday, it's a pretty tight group.

00:18:52.500 everybody's pretty much gone. And you kind of just go into maybe this flow state, you know,

00:19:00.140 and you're just moving. Yeah, it sounds kind of transcendent in a way. So then you have to

00:19:07.560 actually be a Navy SEAL, which is no easier. And especially when you complete your training in July

00:19:13.500 of 2001, all hell breaks loose in the country, in the world. And how many combat deployments did

00:19:21.340 you have? With the SEAL teams I had two combat deployments. To Iraq and Afghanistan? Yep. Okay

00:19:27.720 and two different SEAL teams? Yeah so there was so when I got into the SEAL teams it was around

00:19:36.060 2003 and the first deployment we went to Germany which was a really boring deployment and then we

00:19:45.260 We went to Afghanistan in the late summer of 05, I believe.

00:19:53.440 And how long were you there?

00:19:55.960 We were only there for three months.

00:19:58.360 So it was right after Red Wings happened.

00:20:02.000 Are you familiar with Red Wings, the lone survivor?

00:20:04.380 Oh, yeah, of course.

00:20:05.140 Yes, I've had Marcus on.

00:20:06.480 He's amazing.

00:20:06.920 Yeah, so we relieved them after that happened.

00:20:10.360 That was the biggest SEAL team, the biggest loss in SEAL team history at the time.

00:20:14.120 And it was the SOCOM was doing this surge where they needed more guys.

00:20:22.500 And so they sped up the deployment cycle.

00:20:25.940 So I went from SEAL Team 8 to SEAL Team 2, did my Afghanistan deployment with SEAL Team 2.

00:20:33.240 We didn't do a whole lot there.

00:20:36.240 There was a lot of political stuff going on after that operation.

00:20:40.640 and uh to be a hundred percent honest i was really dissatisfied i went to the teams to

00:20:48.780 go to war and to fight for the country and i i wasn't getting enough i think we did one

00:20:55.540 direct action uh that entire deployment took a couple of prisoners uh no shots fired and then

00:21:03.540 And and then we got our admiral pulled us out of the country.

00:21:08.100 And so at that point, I kind of made a decision for me.

00:21:12.960 This this wasn't what I had expected.

00:21:14.880 And so I told my leadership, I said, hey, this is going to be my last pump.

00:21:22.040 I'm not doing another one. I'd like to finish my enlistment out on deployment.

00:21:27.180 So we had a sister platoon that was in Baghdad that was running a lot of sniper operations.

00:21:33.540 and so I volunteered to go there, and they threw my name in the hat,

00:21:38.520 and I got lucky and went.

00:21:40.620 Volunteered to go to Baghdad?

00:21:42.180 Yeah.

00:21:42.620 In 2000?

00:21:43.720 That would have been late 2005 or early 2006.

00:21:48.960 I mean, the worst absolute time to be in Baghdad for anybody who's not ready

00:21:54.320 to fight and kill and risk their life.

00:21:56.280 I mean, that was just a devastating time.

00:21:58.320 I remember just as a journalist covering those years,

00:22:01.280 and that's when all the beheading started.

00:22:02.940 And it was bad. It was about as bad as it could be. I mean, it's amazing. Again, it being Memorial

00:22:10.200 Day, I have to think about guys like you who volunteered to go into it. The guys who volunteered

00:22:14.300 to go into the buildings on 9-11 at great risk to themselves. And then they're brothers in arms

00:22:20.140 in a way who volunteered to go into the fire in a different way a couple of years after that.

00:22:24.220 We all have a lot to be thankful for.

00:22:26.540 So how long were you there?

00:22:27.960 I was in Baghdad for about four months. And so we got there. The operational tempo was pretty slow at first. There was an election going on, if I remember. And then we were on the hook to do protection for the Iraqi government officials.

00:22:52.220 And nothing was happening.

00:22:54.140 So we wound up, the lieutenant threw our name in the hat to just help conventional units who were getting blown up on their reconnaissance routes, supply routes, whatever the routes were.

00:23:08.240 I mean, they had these bombs called EFPs over there, which were, I don't know if you remember, maybe you covered this.

00:23:15.160 But they would basically put them on the side of the road, and they could be triggered by IR lasers.

00:23:22.060 So they would pick up heat sensitivity to engine blocks, and they had the timing down perfectly to where the projectile would go through the passenger or driver's side door of the Humvees,

00:23:36.620 and basically it would vaporize everything in the vehicle, and you'd just get sucked out of a little hole on the back end.

00:23:43.620 and um so that was that was chewing a lot of our guys up and uh we just got tired of seeing these

00:23:53.020 conventional guys just get crushed by these efps and so so we started attaching ourselves to these

00:24:00.840 conventional units uh that didn't have the knowledge or know-how on how to kind of combat

00:24:05.480 this set up a targeting package to get these guys and so what we would do is we would we would

00:24:11.920 get in with them in bed with them train them for a couple of weeks uh bring them out teach them how

00:24:17.700 to set up sniper hides teach them how to do a targeting package teach them how to conduct

00:24:22.980 surveillance teach them how to start running assets uh within the local population to to try

00:24:29.460 figure out who's doing this and teach them how to shoot taught them everything um um gave them a lot

00:24:37.240 of stuff we really kind of like took these guys under our wings and then we would take them out

00:24:42.260 on operations and um so we would go out find all the places they were getting hit and set up sniper

00:24:50.000 teams along all of those different routes all those uh points of interest and we would take

00:24:58.000 each sniper observation team would take maybe one or two conventional guys with them on the actual

00:25:04.780 operation and uh and we started killing bad guys started turning things the other way

00:25:12.880 you must have lost a lot of friends every guy who serves does and you're one of the lucky ones if

00:25:19.620 nothing happens to you uh to take a limb or a traumatic brain injury as you're going through

00:25:27.040 it there's no time to deal with any of that right it's just forward like we talked about in the

00:25:31.440 in the training just forward.

00:25:32.580 There's no time to think about that stuff,

00:25:34.140 but you're,

00:25:35.400 you're in active combat situations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:25:38.900 And eventually that stops.

00:25:40.680 Right.

00:25:41.800 And is it at that point that you have to deal with that?

00:25:45.820 Or is it later?

00:25:47.420 Cause I know then comes a CIA stint.

00:25:50.560 It's,

00:25:51.340 it's a gradual,

00:25:54.580 it just comes on gradual.

00:25:57.640 And I mean,

00:26:00.400 there's a lot of,

00:26:01.300 There's a lot of coping mechanisms that we use, and that numbs it out.

00:26:08.740 Booze, pills, sleeping pills, whatever you can kind of do to numb it out.

00:26:16.540 And, you know, in the early days, nobody knew any better, you know.

00:26:21.900 That kind of all came crashing down later on for a lot of guys,

00:26:26.100 and that's what we cover on my show.

00:26:27.600 But it took a while, you know, for that stuff to start sinking in, probably well into my contracting career at the agency.

00:26:41.780 Well, that's the thing.

00:26:43.000 If when you have massive crises, especially repeated and ongoing sustained crises, there's only one way, like you have to compartmentalize.

00:26:50.520 How could you possibly function if you were dealing with any of it?

00:26:54.700 I mean, you're not, you actually are human despite all appearances of our SEALs and our

00:27:00.220 Rangers and all those guys. So was it right after your service in Iraq that you decided to join the

00:27:05.980 agency? No, honestly, I didn't want to, I never wanted to go back and I wanted to pursue some

00:27:14.020 type of a career in business. And so I tried a lot of things, civilian life. I just, I wasn't

00:27:21.340 ready for it yet. And, uh, I decided that I'd missed the brotherhood, the camaraderie, the,

00:27:29.840 the obnoxiousness of being on a team. And so I, I decided I would try to get into a fire academy

00:27:39.160 and, uh, and I did wasn't, it wasn't what it wasn't. What do you mean? Fire academy is a

00:27:46.600 firefighter firefighter okay yeah i wanted to be i just thought well that seems like the the next

00:27:51.760 best thing to what i was a part of and um it just wasn't going to work for me uh a lot of family

00:27:57.800 ties help in the fire service and i had none so i had a friend and um that was in afghanistan with

00:28:06.920 me another seal and he said hey i'm working for blackwater and i think you should come work with

00:28:15.780 us and i had seen a lot of the blackwater contractors and heard a lot of the stuff that

00:28:20.400 was going on over there at the time some of it was true some of it wound up not being true

00:28:24.800 but uh i decided while i was over there and i saw how those guys operated i just i didn't want to

00:28:31.020 be a part of the contracting career and uh especially at blackwater and so i'd express

00:28:37.000 that to him and he said this is different this is a different project the qualifications

00:28:44.120 operations all have to be at least six years in special operations or above.

00:28:51.420 Then there's a month-long tryout.

00:28:53.860 I can't tell you who I'm working for, but I think you would really fit in well here.

00:28:59.180 And it's not what you're thinking.

00:29:01.860 It's very high caliber operators working here.

00:29:06.040 So I threw my name in the hat and took about six months to get a call back.

00:29:12.820 And then I did, and it was just an email that said, hey, be here at this time, bring this year with you.

00:29:20.620 And it was a vetting course that was for Blackwater.

00:29:26.380 So I don't know how familiar you are with Blackwater, but Blackwater is a massive organization.

00:29:34.400 And they have, so under Blackwater, they have all these different contracts.

00:29:37.920 They have the Department of State contract.

00:29:39.500 They have the DEA contract.

00:29:42.920 They have probably all kinds of government contracts.

00:29:47.440 And then in the very back of the compound, which the Blackwater compound was, I don't know how many thousands of acres, is the black sites. 0.70

00:29:57.500 And so you go back there. 0.75

00:30:00.600 They don't tell you anything.

00:30:03.280 And you're with a group of guys.

00:30:06.520 And you start off with a PT test.

00:30:08.520 And then you do some shooting qualifications.

00:30:11.300 They don't really tell you what the standards are.

00:30:14.680 They're just, it's just, just here's the time, do your best.

00:30:20.060 And, um, or sometimes when they won't even give you the time, just hit that target as

00:30:25.920 many times as you can and, uh, as fast as possible.

00:30:30.100 And so you do that and it's, you know, it's really, uh, it's, you don't know the standard

00:30:37.920 And that's the biggest stressor is there's nobody.

00:30:41.240 It's not succeeding.

00:30:41.980 What's failing?

00:30:42.640 Yeah.

00:30:42.900 You don't, you have no idea and you don't even know if you passed at the end of the

00:30:47.520 day or not.

00:30:48.640 And so it's just, I mean, you, you know, you passed if you're showing up the next day to

00:30:55.580 work to try out.

00:30:57.540 And so we had made it through the shooting qualifications and then you go through a lot

00:31:02.920 of kind of situational stuff.

00:31:04.320 They'll put you in these situations, and they want to just see how you react, how you can lead a team, how you can integrate in with a team, all kinds of different scenarios, scenarios that you're never going to fight your way out of, lots of civilians.

00:31:21.240 They would plant lots of, like, role players with simunition rounds, which is basically kind of like a paintball gun but more realistic.

00:31:30.580 And they would put you in all these scenarios to see if you could keep your cool under pressure, not shooting any innocent civilians.

00:31:41.980 It was a protection-type gig as well.

00:31:44.640 So a lot of times they would have some type of an asset that you have to go in and extract.

00:31:51.660 And I made it through that.

00:31:55.040 And then at the very end, there was also driving, surveillance, all kinds of stuff that they wanted to just kind of see how you were in all these different scenarios.

00:32:05.920 And at the end, they give you the brief and say, hey, you know, this is the OGA, other government agency, CIA contract.

00:32:14.720 And they start looking for dates to go overseas.

00:32:18.580 Yes, but you don't know for what?

00:32:20.580 No, you never know.

00:32:21.880 You just know that you've been selected as this elite kind of service member and whatever it is is going to be very high level and complicated and complex, right?

00:32:32.860 So you're in, but you don't know what you're in for.

00:32:35.720 Yeah.

00:32:36.240 Well, that's disconcerting.

00:32:37.640 Just listening to you, you are cool.

00:32:39.660 You are calm.

00:32:40.640 Like that, that probably really helped you.

00:32:43.000 I mean, I was just thinking, who do I know who's kind of more on the hysterical end?

00:32:48.100 I don't know her, but she's the only one who came to mind.

00:32:50.140 Somebody like a Bethany Frankel. 0.72

00:32:51.600 the former real housewife. I know that's a bizarre compare, but I mean, she's tightly wound,

00:32:56.500 Sean. She's like, oh, he's like, everything is up here, right? And you're just the opposite of it.

00:33:00.980 You're just kind of a cool cat, like a low blood pressure kind of guy.

00:33:04.320 Well, I mean, when you're in a job like that, and I'm sure you can relate being on TV and with the

00:33:10.480 career that you've had, but I mean, it gets to be so high stress. Every day you're being judged,

00:33:18.380 you're being graded it's do you have what it takes to be a part of this team you know from

00:33:23.600 the from from SEAL training through the through the teams the six years that I was there to CIA

00:33:29.940 or Blackwater training for the subcontract of CIA contractor I mean it's just you have to get to

00:33:37.620 the point where you can you know blow that stuff off and and that that came to me in the teams it

00:33:45.180 And it, I was constantly just, it was just stress all the time.

00:33:50.820 Do I deserve to be here?

00:33:52.200 Am I going to get kicked out this week?

00:33:54.880 You know, what does my team think of me?

00:33:56.680 I'm a new guy.

00:33:57.780 And you have to, and that stuff can hinder your performance.

00:34:02.360 And so, you know, the most stressful thing you can do, at least for me as an operator,

00:34:09.760 is when you're doing the kill house,

00:34:11.140 which is entering buildings, saving hostages, 0.97

00:34:16.040 killing bad guys all in your face,

00:34:17.840 clearing houses, basically. 0.98

00:34:20.000 Are we talking about real life now or the training?

00:34:21.700 We're talking about training and real life.

00:34:23.640 Okay.

00:34:24.080 But primarily, I guess primarily training.

00:34:28.340 And it gets to the point where if you let this stuff get to you,

00:34:31.660 every house, we call them a house run,

00:34:33.980 where you go through the doors, maybe you blow the doors,

00:34:37.380 maybe you're climbing in a window,

00:34:38.540 maybe you're coming in from the rooftop doesn't matter but once you enter that house and training

00:34:43.900 every every move you make is critiqued and it can make it seem like and purposely that that

00:34:53.640 they're picking on you that you're not any good that that they don't want you there

00:34:57.860 and you just have to get to the point where you can't let that stuff affect you it just got to

00:35:04.400 the point in the teams where i i i had hit this mental switch where i i don't care anymore i i

00:35:13.740 had like tricked myself into thinking i don't care how this run this house run ends i don't care

00:35:20.720 what these guys think of me i'm just going to do the best i can do and that's that's all i can do

00:35:25.660 do you know the the free solo movie and that the story about that mountain climber who refused to

00:35:31.120 use any lines and supports and he wound up dying no but they talk about these guys who climb these

00:35:36.520 mountains and they're they're nuts they do it with no support you know there's there's nothing

00:35:40.960 to you know and a lot of them do die uh but they identify with a lot of these guys that they've

00:35:47.640 lost their ability to get an adrenaline surge and that's actually one of the reasons why they do it

00:35:52.040 the way they do it without all the belts and suspenders can you relate to that at all oh yeah

00:35:58.440 Yeah. Do you lose adrenaline? Yeah. And then maybe crossing over to it's gone. Like, where is it? How can I get it again?

00:36:05.360 Yeah. You find it through. I mean, that's why so many guys honestly wind back up in the in the contracting arena is especially like these guys, you know, that spend 30 plus years at the SEAL teams or a SF team or Delta or wherever, Rangers, MARSOC.

00:36:28.440 And you can't, it's never enough.

00:36:31.880 I mean, it's like, it's like a heroin addiction.

00:36:34.820 You know, you're constantly looking for the fix and then it gets so bad that, that even

00:36:40.480 on your off time, you know, you're looking for it.

00:36:43.040 It's not, you can't take six months and not feel that.

00:36:47.060 It is, it's the pinnacle of your existence at the time.

00:36:56.340 Expedia, you're here.

00:36:58.720 But are you here, here?

00:37:01.800 You go to Hawaii in your head all the time.

00:37:05.220 During meetings, in the car, Hawaii is on the mind.

00:37:08.740 But when you're ready to go, there's Expedia, the one place you go to go places.

00:37:13.500 Flights, hotels, vacation homes, cars.

00:37:16.160 You can save when you bundle or book as you go and still save.

00:37:20.240 So what are you waiting for?

00:37:21.960 Expedia, the one place you go to go places.

00:37:25.240 Members only savings vary.

00:37:28.440 I can't imagine, you know, just the other night I was at a dinner party at a friend's house in

00:37:35.560 Connecticut and it was absolutely lovely. The hostess knew all the right things to do. We had

00:37:41.200 a lovely cocktail hour. We sat down for dinner. There was even some dancing after the fact,

00:37:45.020 which was a successful cocktail party, a dinner party by any measure. I can't imagine a Sean Ryan

00:37:51.340 having lived the life you've lived, right? Coming back from all of that and even participating in

00:37:58.420 such. I mean, I just feel like your whole life must, must have been, you know, when this was

00:38:03.300 done, like, what is this? Who are these people? What is, does, this is just absolute drivel around

00:38:11.180 me everywhere. None of this matters. Did you go through that? Oh yeah. It created a lot of anxiety,

00:38:19.400 a lot of anxiety. I had really bad social anxiety when I, when I left the agency. And, uh, I just,

00:38:26.240 I mean, you are thrown into a world that you thought you knew, and it's just, it's hard.

00:38:41.120 I mean, it's really hard to relate to anybody who has not lived the kind of life that you've lived.

00:38:47.700 It takes a long time, you know, and it takes a lot of self-work.

00:38:52.780 It's like you were on Mars for 14 years.

00:38:54.620 Pretty much. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. Right. And you come back and earth has changed a lot. You know, now there's an internet, internet, GPS and iPhones and social media. So it's like the dramatic changes.

00:39:06.140 And a lot of different opinions on what we're doing over there.

00:39:09.260 So can you help me understand, because we talked about leaving seal, the seals and going to Blackwater and then, but that, and that, do you count that as CIA time? I don't totally understand.

00:39:18.380 Yeah, so I spent a very brief time at Blackwater as well.

00:39:22.500 So I did two deployments, I think, with Blackwater.

00:39:29.280 So basically, if you're going to get your housework done, right, you're going to use a general contractor.

00:39:35.640 And then he's going to subcontract out the plumbing, the drywall, the air conditioning.

00:39:41.880 So think of Blackwater as the general contractor for the U.S. government.

00:39:48.380 And so then Department of State says, hey, we need 500 guys in Baghdad to protect all of our state diplomats.

00:40:00.360 Okay, so Blackwater goes and they, what kind of guys do you want?

00:40:04.120 What do you want to pay?

00:40:05.680 You know, what qualifications are you looking for?

00:40:08.080 And then they go find those type of people, train them up, put them through a vetting course, and then here's your 500 guys.

00:40:14.220 And so CIA does the same thing.

00:40:15.960 It's, hey, we have this very particular set of skills we're looking for.

00:40:20.960 This is the job description.

00:40:23.820 You guys, you, Blackwater, go find these guys for us.

00:40:27.160 So we're basically subcontractors for the agency.

00:40:30.880 Okay.

00:40:31.180 Does that make sense?

00:40:31.820 Yeah.

00:40:32.220 I don't understand Blackwater that well, but why would they not just go tap the SEALs or the Green Berets?

00:40:40.520 Why would they go to Blackwater for any of this?

00:40:43.880 That's a great question.

00:40:44.880 I wish I could answer that.

00:40:46.760 And they do go direct.

00:40:48.780 And so later on in my career after Blackwater, I had taken a break from Blackwater.

00:40:54.700 Then I went to a company called SOC, did a couple appointments with them, got kind of tired of the agency stuff for a little bit.

00:41:03.040 So then I jumped on an anti-piracy gig back.

00:41:07.000 Do you remember the Marist, Alabama?

00:41:08.940 Yeah.

00:41:09.060 So after that happened, all these contracts spun up and it was, all right, we need we need seals on ships to kill pirates that are trying to, you know, kidnap the crew and take over the ship.

00:41:22.240 Just another day at work.

00:41:23.280 Yeah. And ransom.

00:41:24.580 No, that's like Rob O'Neill. I told him he's like the Waldo of servicemen. He's everywhere.

00:41:29.780 Yeah.

00:41:30.160 Every movie that's ever been made, Rob O'Neill had a role in it.

00:41:32.520 He's been on all of the ops, right?

00:41:33.860 But, yeah, so I did that for two deployments, and then the agency got back in touch with me, and then they wanted me to come work direct for them as a contractor, but not through any companies.

00:41:47.660 Okay.

00:41:48.240 And so—

00:41:49.020 But now you're actually earning some money.

00:41:50.480 Yeah.

00:41:50.900 So that's good.

00:41:51.680 Yeah.

00:41:52.100 I mean, more so than you ever got paid by the Navy.

00:41:55.320 Way more than I got paid for by the Navy.

00:41:57.460 Can you get rich doing that, or not really?

00:41:59.980 I mean, I guess it depends on how you invest your money.

00:42:03.240 I mean, at that time, a good rate was about $1,000 a day.

00:42:09.420 So that would be a really, that would be a good rate.

00:42:13.200 Some guys, a low rate would be about $550 a day.

00:42:17.600 And so, yeah, I mean, it depends on how much you want to deploy.

00:42:22.860 Where are you sitting in between deployments?

00:42:25.720 Are you back here, like going to the movies and Starbucks?

00:42:30.560 I spent a lot of time.

00:42:34.760 Well, I mean, it was 14.

00:42:36.860 Agency was about a little shy of nine years.

00:42:39.940 And so I would, man, I would go all over.

00:42:46.140 But towards the end, I started going to Columbia, South America.

00:42:51.680 This was not a good period in your life.

00:42:54.160 You know about this.

00:42:55.060 Nothing good happens in Columbia.

00:42:57.160 Nothing good does happen in Columbia.

00:42:59.820 Now, I do know a little bit about your troubles, and that was a rough period for you.

00:43:04.460 Explain why and why Columbia?

00:43:06.800 Well, originally, I went to Columbia because when I joined the SEAL teams,

00:43:13.460 I had always wanted to go to Team 4 because I wanted to do the counter-drug ops.

00:43:18.220 Well, then, you know, 9-11 kicked off, obviously, and that wasn't a focus at all.

00:43:24.040 and so um when i was in the agency i'd broken up with uh with a girlfriend and so i decided i

00:43:32.320 wanted to travel and i'd always i was just in fact i mean those were all the documentaries

00:43:36.660 i was watching when i went to the recruiter it was that was the only thing going on at the time

00:43:41.360 was panama and kind of the the the counter-drug situation down in south america which a lot of

00:43:47.920 that was in Colombia. Since documented in shows like Narcos. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and, uh, so I

00:43:55.520 decided I wanted to go check it out down there. And, um, so I, I mean, that's crazy talk just

00:44:01.560 just like as a pin in this car, that's crazy talk. Nobody looks at a show like Narcos or Panama and

00:44:07.420 says, yes, I want to go there. That's you'd all normal people are like, thank God that's down

00:44:14.300 there yeah well I mean I went it was for a number I wanted to see I just I wanted to be in a jungle 0.98

00:44:21.760 environment and uh so I went to check it out had a a great time and uh and so I kept I just kept

00:44:30.320 going back kept going back kept going back all the way past my time at the agency but uh then it

00:44:36.780 turned into, we had just kind of spoken about addiction to adrenaline. And so I was going down

00:44:45.480 there doing a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be doing, cocaine. And, and, and then once I left

00:44:54.280 the agency, I kind of started building a network down there. And it just, it was exciting to me.

00:45:02.780 I was in overseas, building my own network, kind of felt like I was kind of running my own operations.

00:45:12.860 What kind of operations?

00:45:14.700 Drug networks.

00:45:16.440 And so I wanted to see how deep into the kind of narcos network I could get myself.

00:45:25.700 But this was not for crime fighting?

00:45:28.040 No.

00:45:28.840 This was...

00:45:29.800 For crime committee?

00:45:31.160 Pretty much.

00:45:31.740 Yeah.

00:45:32.020 And, um, so I kind of started at street level and built a network out and went to clubs and met people and, and, and found my guys and started testing cocaine and finding the best stuff.

00:45:48.500 And, and, and I found it and, um, and that lasted for, for a couple of years.

00:45:55.040 And I would bounce. I would just bounce. I mean, it was really I got a lot of satisfaction out of the adrenaline and seeing and just seeing how much I could have been my and bed myself into these different cultures.

00:46:09.100 And so then I started flying all over the all over South America. I started going to Peru and starting to build network there and Dominican Republic and Panama, all over Colombia, all over the country.

00:46:24.280 and uh costa rica and then i started looking up the most dangerous places you could go in the

00:46:30.600 world and at the time it was san pedro sulla honduras so i went there and started uh i didn't

00:46:38.160 get very far there but uh but um that was that was my life for several years wow and the the

00:46:48.020 part was cocaine and you would find what like would be dealers people to distribute it i would

00:46:52.500 find dealers and then I would find their dealers and then I would find where their dealers get

00:46:58.160 their stuff. And, and I got to a pretty high level. It's a miracle. You weren't killed.

00:47:04.120 It is a miracle. It was, I mean, it was, I mean, this is what I do for a living though,

00:47:09.440 you know? And so that's true. You had some pretty superior training. I was, I was pretty good at it

00:47:14.240 and pretty fearless at the time. So when you're talking to your old Navy seal buds or, you know,

00:47:21.860 Blackwater buds and you're down there and they're saying, what are you up to?

00:47:26.200 What were you saying?

00:47:27.520 I would just tell them.

00:47:29.080 I've crossed over to the other side.

00:47:30.760 I wouldn't tell them exactly what I'm doing, but I would, I mean, they knew.

00:47:34.780 Everybody kind of knew, you know, I mean, it just, I started losing friends.

00:47:41.820 I know the conversations were like, oh yeah, I mean, he's down in Columbia and nobody really

00:47:47.220 hears from him anymore. And I would resurface every once in a while. Sometimes guys would

00:47:52.480 come down to see me. They wouldn't last very long. They'd head back out immediately. And

00:47:58.100 it just, it got to be very dark. And, you know, I OD'd down there a couple of times.

00:48:12.300 And I remember one time I woke up and it was like it was Mother's Day.

00:48:28.740 And I remember calling my mom and I was all junked out.

00:48:37.040 And I remember after that conversation, it just hit me like a ton of bricks.

00:48:43.500 And I knew I needed to pull myself out of that.

00:48:49.020 And it kind of like went right back to the time when, you know,

00:48:52.960 I told you the only reason I made it through BUDS was I didn't want to let my parents down.

00:48:56.660 And I sure as hell didn't want my parents to get a notice weeks later

00:49:02.500 that their son had OD'd on cocaine

00:49:05.840 in a penthouse in Columbia.

00:49:07.640 And who knows how long that would take

00:49:09.720 to even get to them.

00:49:10.640 And so it had painted this picture in my head

00:49:16.720 and I started seeking help, kind of.

00:49:21.600 It's a big moment.

00:49:22.780 Yeah.

00:49:24.500 Before you begin that path to redemption.

00:49:28.340 Yeah.

00:49:29.840 What got you there?

00:49:31.160 What made you establish residency in Colombia and go all over these countries, the most dangerous countries on earth, to mess with other people's drug rings?

00:49:41.640 My God, right?

00:49:42.800 It's like playing with plutonium for a living.

00:49:44.740 Yeah.

00:49:45.980 And be so reckless with your life and your well-being.

00:49:52.260 You know, I just didn't value life anymore.

00:49:57.440 I didn't care.

00:49:58.740 I mean, I had expected to die down there.

00:50:04.840 And then when I got close, I realized there's a lot more to life than this.

00:50:12.640 And so I cleaned it up.

00:50:15.680 And truth be told, I mean, that was kind of an awakening, but I wasn't 100% ready to shut it down.

00:50:21.040 And then I had, you know, I had built quite the network down there and I got tipped off that the federal police in Columbia were surveilling me and people that I was with.

00:50:37.880 And so I had, I E&E'd out of the country.

00:50:43.380 What's E&E'd?

00:50:44.540 I mean, I just, I abruptly left. And I did kind of a, we call them an SDR, but surveillance detection route. And I wanted to see if they were surveilling me if I was walking around town.

00:50:58.540 and um so i got rid of everything cleaned everything up and uh went to an internet cafe

00:51:07.140 booked myself some tickets uh to a couple different places jumped on one and and uh

00:51:13.740 and left the country came back stateside yeah do we extradite to columbia

00:51:18.880 just asking for a friend yeah yeah um but uh but yeah no i got out of there and uh

00:51:28.720 went home home to missouri talked to my parents they knew some you told them was really everything

00:51:37.180 yeah i don't remember telling them anything and uh woke up the next day after telling them with

00:51:42.980 a hangover and my dad was, I could just tell by the look on his face that I must have spilled

00:51:52.580 probably just about everything. What did the look say? Very concerned and worried.

00:52:12.980 People will doom scroll you.

00:52:14.520 Expedia, the one place you go to go places.

00:52:17.120 Terms apply.

00:52:21.040 I didn't take it seriously.

00:52:22.740 I didn't think I needed any help.

00:52:24.620 And I just kept at it.

00:52:27.980 What do you mean?

00:52:28.560 Kept at what?

00:52:29.300 I kept at, I wouldn't put the bottle down.

00:52:32.500 Wasn't ready to do that.

00:52:33.780 I don't think I could have done that.

00:52:35.180 And then, you know, through the career, I mean, you just, you know, I had mentioned, you know, numbing it out.

00:52:42.140 and numbing it out becomes, it's not even a cycle.

00:52:47.160 It's just pills after pills after pills.

00:52:51.260 It's Valium, Xanax, lorazepam, Ambien, hydrocodone, oxytramidol,

00:52:58.180 kind of whatever you can just wash down to shut the brain down and get some rest.

00:53:05.820 And so I wasn't doing that.

00:53:08.600 I wasn't ready to clean that up.

00:53:10.740 I had kind of weaned myself off the coke, and then things just weren't getting better.

00:53:23.300 My life wasn't developing afterwards, and so I started going to therapy, which was—

00:53:32.140 Talk therapy.

00:53:33.020 Yeah, I started going to talk therapy, extremely hesitant.

00:53:36.660 And I thought, well, I need to go to somebody.

00:53:39.500 I have to go to somebody that's experienced what I've experienced.

00:53:42.160 I need, like, a Vietnam vet or somebody that has seen action.

00:53:49.720 And I couldn't find anybody.

00:53:53.320 And so I just Googled.

00:53:55.860 I just Googled therapist, talked to two or three of them, and walked into one, which was very –

00:54:04.960 It was interesting because this was kind of before anybody really knew

00:54:11.100 about the suicide epidemic, before PTSD and traumatic brain injury

00:54:15.780 and operator syndrome or whatever they're calling it this week,

00:54:18.900 kind of started getting out there.

00:54:22.640 And, man, it took me a while to warm up, but I love it.

00:54:30.260 Male or female? 0.98

00:54:31.200 Female. 0.99

00:54:32.420 Nice. 1.00

00:54:33.440 Yeah. 1.00

00:54:33.700 I love a female therapist. Mine currently is male, but there was a woman who I Googled 0.99

00:54:37.960 when I was leaving my first husband before there was Doug, there was Dan with whom I'm still

00:54:42.700 friends, but we did get a divorce. And same thing. I Googled this woman and she totally changed my

00:54:48.060 life. You never know. I mean, you can, you can strike gold and then their yellow pages or Google 0.99

00:54:54.720 pages as it is now. And I can relate to doing that and having it be a life changer. Yeah.

00:55:01.740 Yeah, good for you.

00:55:04.500 I'm happy for you.

00:55:05.280 Oh, thank you.

00:55:06.920 So yeah, interesting enough,

00:55:08.460 she had never talked, ever talked to a combat vet

00:55:11.920 and wound up, I did my own research

00:55:16.480 and wound up being a pretty staunch liberal,

00:55:22.340 which I probably wouldn't have gone to her.

00:55:24.860 So you were more conservative going in.

00:55:26.420 I know you lean right now, but back then you were too.

00:55:29.780 Yes, definitely.

00:55:30.660 Probably more so. 1.00

00:55:32.960 But I got to be honest, you know, that woman is like an angel. 0.99

00:55:39.420 And I don't care what her political beliefs are.

00:55:44.640 That woman has saved more special ops guys from suicide than anybody saved in combat, than anybody I know.

00:55:57.840 And she still does it to this day, and that was back in probably 2015, 2016 timeframe.

00:56:07.560 And it was me, and when I left the agency, I was also trying to save my best friend's life who had a terrible heroin addiction.

00:56:18.880 And I talked him into going in to meet her, and then I just started telling everybody.

00:56:26.300 And I remember my best friend's name was Gabe, and we gave her a SEAL team plaque just to say thank you because she was helping us out.

00:56:41.060 She had dubbed her prices down, and just an amazing woman.

00:56:47.880 And now you go in there, and her entire office is just plaque after plaque after plaque after plaque.

00:56:55.780 Pretty soon you're going to see a Trump banner.

00:56:58.000 She's going to be wearing the MAGA hat.

00:57:01.540 Yeah, but that would be a sight to see.

00:57:04.640 But, I mean, you know, the reason I say that is because there are some things that can, you know, political agendas don't, they don't get in the way.

00:57:17.940 Transcend politics.

00:57:18.660 You don't see that very often these days, and I think that's important.

00:57:22.500 I love that you said that.

00:57:23.700 I feel the same.

00:57:24.380 I have very strong political views on a number of issues, but pretty much 80% of the people around me who I love in my life, the woman who raised me, all my best friends, my best friends growing up, are liberal.

00:57:39.000 They're not woke, but they're liberal.

00:57:41.800 They're Democrats.

00:57:42.940 So I have tons of love in my heart for all of them, even though they don't vote the way I vote and they don't feel the way I do about the issues that are really important to me.

00:57:52.420 But I don't care.

00:57:53.680 Those don't have to be the stakes of the relationship.

00:57:56.140 Yeah.

00:57:56.860 It takes a strong person to overcome that these days, but they're out there.

00:58:02.620 Yeah.

00:58:03.380 Do you say her name or at least her first name?

00:58:06.080 Her first name's Amy. 1.00

00:58:07.500 My lady was named Amy. 1.00

00:58:09.420 Really? 1.00

00:58:09.560 What area of the country was this?

00:58:10.740 Missouri?

00:58:12.160 Well, no, no.

00:58:13.540 That's South Florida.

00:58:16.280 Okay.

00:58:16.840 Yeah. 0.99

00:58:17.320 My lady was in the Virginia area, Northern Virginia. 1.00

00:58:20.040 Interesting.

00:58:20.720 We'll talk after.

00:58:21.820 All right.

00:58:22.440 specifics but same thing um and i when you were telling me that story it reminded me so you know

00:58:29.180 we we have military guys on all the times i just absolutely respect the hell out of you guys and

00:58:34.440 what you do and as i said and would love to raise two little soldiers but don't really want to for

00:58:41.400 the reasons discussed and uh we interviewed dakota meyer oh and of course his story is just it's

00:58:49.120 incredible medal of honor talked about how he was drunk up there when president bush was pinning the

00:58:53.560 medal on him and or was obama and um he talked very openly about how difficult it was for him

00:59:00.900 to come back and miss the guys and miss the adrenaline and just dealing with the trauma

00:59:06.820 of everything he'd seen and done and he talked about his own moment of super low and being

00:59:16.440 rescued by an angel and we pulled the soundbite so take a watch i felt like where i was at in life

00:59:24.060 at that point that that you know that i just couldn't get my stuff together and and and i just

00:59:31.880 i i should fix it right like the fear i could see in people's eyes you know with me like i was a

00:59:38.280 monster it's just like drinking and just you know you know the thing is is and people don't talk

00:59:44.200 about this much you know you don't fight evil with nice people and i just remember driving home

00:59:53.600 and i pulled off this highway at my buddy's shop because i knew you know i didn't want anybody

01:00:00.420 worried about me right so i pulled in and i knew that he would be in because he comes into work

01:00:05.280 every morning and i just yeah i mean i was i was gonna do it right there i stuck it to my head and

01:00:11.780 I squeezed the trigger and it just like it went click and there was no round in it.

01:00:15.500 And I don't know if, you know, I feel like I know who did it.

01:00:19.560 I don't I don't I don't truly know, though.

01:00:23.320 But he said he does believe he knows a friend had removed the bullets from the gun.

01:00:29.040 Wow. He thinks it was a friend.

01:00:31.420 Yeah. Does he know who it was?

01:00:33.060 He said he thinks he does. But that's an angel.

01:00:37.700 That's a real life God's angel on this earth.

01:00:41.780 yeah looking out for him you know she saved him and i believe you know amy may have saved you

01:00:48.960 and maybe my amy saved me it's like yes you kind of have to be a willing participant but

01:00:54.860 i know you found faith and i i'm also a person of faith and i do think like if you're just open

01:01:00.840 eyed you can see these angels like often all around us yeah and they look like mere mortals

01:01:07.820 but they were sent here for a purpose.

01:01:11.020 Your therapist goes home at night

01:01:13.540 and when she looks back at her day to say,

01:01:16.860 what did I do today that really mattered?

01:01:18.620 My God.

01:01:19.540 Yeah.

01:01:19.940 Does anybody have a better roster?

01:01:22.400 Probably not.

01:01:24.500 Probably not. 0.98

01:01:25.600 She's amazing.

01:01:26.620 Now you're doing it.

01:01:27.640 I mean, that's kind of how you make your living now.

01:01:30.520 Just talking to guys who probably aren't that used

01:01:33.560 to talking about this stuff in like a safe place, right?

01:01:37.380 somebody who gets it it's kind of a form of talk therapy just to sort of be able to speak about it

01:01:42.900 at least it's a step well it is and uh you know i think um you know my podcast is is done well

01:01:51.600 and super well you're being humble and uh but i give i give amy a lot of credit to how i interview

01:02:00.240 Because I realized, you know, I realized in therapy, she really didn't say a whole lot.

01:02:08.380 And a lot of times, you just start figuring things out yourself by just getting it out.

01:02:13.960 And so I realized, you know, I realized that if you just let somebody talk, they're just going to keep going nine times out of ten.

01:02:26.960 And, um, and, um, yeah, so, so being in therapy twice a week for three and a half years really

01:02:34.240 helped me as an interviewer. Yeah. Right. As an interviewer too, right. Just to let people talk

01:02:39.480 and to listen, to listen, it's helpful too, as opposed to be thinking about your next question.

01:02:44.200 So when did you find love? Because that seems relatively recent, right? You got engaged,

01:02:50.860 you got married. Now you have two kids and including a new daughter. Congrats.

01:02:54.020 Thank you. Thank you.

01:02:55.300 So what did you find your wife, your future wife, during all of the Amy time or when?

01:03:01.100 Yep. Right in the middle of it.

01:03:03.060 I met my wife on a gun range at a sporting club in Florida.

01:03:08.900 Nice. That's beautiful. That's amazing.

01:03:10.540 I know, right?

01:03:11.700 And my best friend still to this day, David Rutherford, had a new sniper rifle that he wanted to sight in.

01:03:21.820 and he knew somebody that had access to a 1,000-yard range.

01:03:29.120 And so we went out there.

01:03:30.740 Her dad met us, and my wife's name is Katie.

01:03:33.860 She jumped out of the truck, and that was that. 0.67

01:03:38.620 We shot some guns.

01:03:41.400 We went to the club restaurant.

01:03:44.480 She gave me some tots, and that was it.

01:03:47.520 What's tots?

01:03:48.480 Tater tots.

01:03:49.140 Tater tots.

01:03:49.200 big fan oh me too also because i haven't had a french fry in three years what yes it was a

01:03:58.660 personal mission i'm basically a navy seal too in my strength and my ability to say no to the

01:04:04.200 to the things that are bad for me um no i decided in june of 2021 they were becoming a problem for

01:04:12.400 me i'm not gonna lie and that i need to swear off and so i decided to go a year and now i'm

01:04:18.360 I'm almost three years clean.

01:04:20.260 Well, congratulations.

01:04:21.600 But the tot is the back door to the fried potato.

01:04:26.720 I may not pass like a drug test of potato eaters.

01:04:32.820 Right on.

01:04:33.340 But it's not even called the same thing.

01:04:35.340 It's called a tater tot.

01:04:36.360 It's not even a French fry.

01:04:37.460 Anyway, big fan because they allow me to still have my delicious.

01:04:40.440 They're amazing.

01:04:41.400 But I'm not as addicted as the French fry. 1.00

01:04:43.300 They don't have the same down the rabbit hole quality for me.

01:04:46.400 Yeah.

01:04:46.640 Yeah, you know, French fries are, it's like a conveyor belt for ketchup.

01:04:50.740 Yes, totally agree.

01:04:52.740 The only purpose of the tot is to deliver the ketchup.

01:04:57.340 Right?

01:04:58.060 I know.

01:04:58.700 And then somebody will buy like the Whole Foods ketchup and you're like, ew, what is this?

01:05:03.180 It just ruins the entire meal.

01:05:04.820 Right?

01:05:05.440 You need the sugar, the preservatives, whatever Heinz does, that's what we need.

01:05:10.640 That's right.

01:05:11.280 That's right.

01:05:11.800 All right. So I never realized it could be an aphrodisiac, but I like how Katie rolls. 0.85

01:05:17.780 So she lures you in with the tots and the guns and you were like, I'm home. When are we getting

01:05:23.380 married? That's right. So how long thereafter were you married? Oh man, I think it was,

01:05:29.640 I think it was about a year and a half. So we were in Boca Raton, Florida.

01:05:36.700 I was definitely a fish out of water in that town.

01:05:40.180 Why?

01:05:40.460 And, you know, there's a lot of, I grew up in the Midwest in a town of 6,000 people in a farm town.

01:05:49.500 Now I'm in Boca Raton, Florida.

01:05:51.880 Lots of money.

01:05:52.840 Super fabulous.

01:05:53.860 Lots of flash.

01:05:54.400 Okay.

01:05:54.920 Lots of that.

01:05:57.440 And so when me and Katie got serious, it didn't take long.

01:06:01.820 And, you know, Katie has been sober for 15 years now, and I was on a path to get, it was on my radar.

01:06:15.340 And so I had asked her a couple of questions that really resonated with me.

01:06:22.440 And, you know, there's a lot of fake people in South Florida, at least in my experience.

01:06:29.260 And so with Katie, I remember asking her a question, and it was something along the lines of, you know, now that, you know, how do you find real hobbies once you're sober?

01:06:44.140 Because I don't, I had zero hobbies other than boozing.

01:06:50.500 And she had a real answer, and it was just, that's a great question.

01:06:57.620 And it just takes time.

01:07:00.700 But she was engaged in that conversation.

01:07:03.960 And so I knew I was like, this is a good one.

01:07:07.820 And she's real.

01:07:09.880 And I had not been around a real woman in a long time.

01:07:16.260 And that was, I still remember where I was.

01:07:19.260 It was at a Thai restaurant in Fort Lauderdale.

01:07:21.820 And she had told me that.

01:07:23.240 And I was like, the conversation just got, it, it, it, uh, I couldn't talk to anybody

01:07:30.620 like that other than my therapist and, um, or anybody that had been through something

01:07:35.720 like that, like, like what I was in the middle of.

01:07:38.560 And, um, so anyways, uh, we, we got closer and I knew we were going to get married.

01:07:48.080 I know I was going to marry her.

01:07:49.240 And I just I said, I don't want to I don't want to raise my family in South Florida.

01:07:56.020 So we're going to have to leave. And and so, yeah, we wound up in Tennessee.

01:08:01.920 Does she have any roots there or was it just the flocking to Tennessee that so many conservatives did?

01:08:07.140 We no roots, no roots. We just packed up and went to Franklin.

01:08:13.880 At least you went from the one state with no state income tax to another state.

01:08:17.680 with no state income tax.

01:08:19.340 New Hampshire is suddenly amongst the crew.

01:08:21.900 That's nice to see here in the Northeast.

01:08:23.620 Yeah, I know.

01:08:24.380 It looks like it's blowing up.

01:08:25.780 We were looking there for a little bit.

01:08:27.100 Let's go Connecticut.

01:08:28.200 That's right.

01:08:28.820 It's not going to happen.

01:08:30.080 It's far too blue.

01:08:31.920 That's all good.

01:08:32.720 On the hobby front,

01:08:33.680 have you considered needlepoint

01:08:35.440 or as my good friend describes it,

01:08:37.520 a high-class finger sport?

01:08:39.540 Interesting.

01:08:40.460 I have not.

01:08:41.480 No?

01:08:42.020 Are you into needlepoint?

01:08:43.020 Hell no.

01:08:43.520 I said we are too young to be doing that.

01:08:45.440 Get off of the beach immediately

01:08:46.700 with that monstrosity in your hand. 0.98

01:08:48.960 I refuse to sit with you.

01:08:52.220 So did you find whatever, a hobby?

01:08:54.960 Business.

01:08:55.640 I was going to say, it's this,

01:08:56.620 it involves this microphone, right?

01:08:57.940 I found business and that's my hobby.

01:09:00.960 So yeah, my hobbies, I mean, I don't have time for them.

01:09:04.440 I don't have hobbies either,

01:09:05.400 if it makes you feel any better.

01:09:06.440 I love being in my business.

01:09:08.500 And now you have two kids.

01:09:09.480 And I love being with my kids.

01:09:11.100 And so anything outside of that,

01:09:12.760 there's just not much time for.

01:09:14.140 Yeah, no, there really isn't.

01:09:15.300 I mean, I remember when we had kids,

01:09:16.540 a good friend of mine said you should tell your friends you just had your kids and that you won't

01:09:20.520 be seeing them for about 10 years that's right and he's like the true friends will still be

01:09:23.840 there for you when you get there and the ones who aren't really your true friends good riddance

01:09:28.260 we're figuring that out we are definitely figuring that out it's it's interesting how fast

01:09:33.800 your taste in friends changes yeah you know especially i don't know how old your kids are

01:09:40.340 14, 13, and 10.

01:09:42.460 Oh, okay.

01:09:43.580 Nice.

01:09:44.500 I'm looking forward to those ages.

01:09:46.260 They're great ages.

01:09:47.940 Highly recommend this period of parenthood.

01:09:51.260 It's awesome.

01:09:52.460 Really?

01:09:52.820 They're so easy and they're so fun and they have the best personalities and they still love us.

01:09:58.700 I think we're in the sweet spot of parenting right now.

01:10:01.340 When they're little, I know you've got two littles, it's hard.

01:10:04.580 They're adorable, but it is hard labor.

01:10:07.580 Yeah, we're in potty training right now.

01:10:09.880 But I love every minute of it.

01:10:12.280 You know, I just, it's a tough balance, you know, between work and family.

01:10:19.420 But I always lean more towards family.

01:10:22.800 And, man, it just goes so fast.

01:10:26.240 I'm already realizing that.

01:10:28.260 And I don't want to, you know, I'm glad that I waited until after service for kids.

01:10:33.620 Because it sounds like you've listened to at least a couple of my interviews.

01:10:37.340 And, man, you know, I'm just I'm glad that I never had to put my I will never have to put my kids through what that was like, what what it turned to be into being gone all the time.

01:10:51.960 And I'm a lot better now than than than back then.

01:10:56.480 And you don't have to live with the regret of having missed it.

01:10:59.180 Yeah.

01:11:00.200 Even for a good cause.

01:11:01.880 You know, it's hard to miss it.

01:11:04.280 I've talked to enough people who have made a different choice.

01:11:06.740 you can just hear the regret in their voice and see it on their face and it's not recapturable

01:11:11.960 once it's gone. Very true. Very true. But, um, you know, I think in Tennessee, you'll do better

01:11:19.700 in instilling values into your kids that reflect your own, right? That's one of the challenges

01:11:25.060 here in the Northeast. It's really, well, yeah. I mean, these woke schools, we fled our New York

01:11:30.240 city schools because of that here in Connecticut, we got it made. We did our homework this time

01:11:34.660 since we were fleeing and, um, we found two great ones, but it's important, right? Because you'll

01:11:41.040 find out when you're, how old is your oldest, your boy? Two and a half. Yeah. So you'll find

01:11:45.380 out when they start to go to school that the schools are, they're your partners. I mean,

01:11:49.600 you need to find a partner. They're the ones who are going to spend the most waking hours with your

01:11:54.080 kids every day. Yeah. So if you're not on the same page about how we're raising a boy or how

01:11:59.820 we're raising a girl how we're creating a good human being and future citizen you know current

01:12:05.540 citizen but like you know responsible citizen things can go south quickly that is a constant

01:12:13.440 topic of discussion at our house is well how we're going to do that are we going to homeschool

01:12:17.580 we're going to do private school what are we going to do and uh turns out we live in a like

01:12:23.760 a homeschool Mecca. That's good. Yeah. So we're looking into possibly doing that. I love the

01:12:30.540 homeschooling communities. I have a dear friend who's doing that. He swears by it. So what does

01:12:35.300 life look like now? You do the podcast like 25 hours a day. Honestly, how do you do these five

01:12:40.420 hour podcasts? Man, I just, I just listen, you know, and, and, uh, you know, I, I get people

01:12:52.240 to open up about things they've never talked about before and go to places that they probably

01:12:58.360 have not been in their mind in, in years. And, um, and you can't do that on a time,

01:13:08.420 on a timeline you can't you can't do that in a condensed timeline and so

01:13:13.300 you know my longest one i think is nine hours is that right yeah who is that with this this guy

01:13:20.940 cody alford who was a marsoc guy okay but um marine but um and so you know in and i think

01:13:30.300 the first one i did was right about two hours and um but then i kept getting longer and i noticed

01:13:36.940 the more time i spend on the more time i give them the more they open up and and what it kind

01:13:43.880 of developed into is is i remember i don't remember who the first guy was it might have

01:13:50.040 been this guy prime hall but do you have any idea how many people have been through like child

01:13:55.720 trauma sexual trauma abusive uh parents whatever it is and it's like everybody and so our the first

01:14:06.320 time that happened I I was like all right I got to start diving more into childhood and and I'll

01:14:14.700 bet 75 percent of the people have come on uh have experienced some type of abuse as a child and

01:14:22.320 and I dig into kind of what's happening today with trafficking and pedophilia and and and all of that

01:14:30.960 kind of stuff and so I think it's really important to dive into the to the childhood stuff because

01:14:37.000 it gives people that have been abused that are trying to process that still into their adult

01:14:42.300 life and kids that are going through right now I mean it it shows them like man no matter what

01:14:48.700 I'm going through right now like I can still find success and and and find happiness in life and

01:14:56.960 And, you know, there's just not a lot of people doing that right now.

01:15:00.160 And so when somebody goes into their childhood experience and they're going to get descriptive about it, you know, that when they're done and we're done with that section, I always ask, you know, for a kid that's in your position right now, you know, looking back, what could you have done or what would you advise, you know, other kids that are in your position or are there?

01:15:26.000 You know what I'm trying to say.

01:15:26.900 And what advice do you have for them?

01:15:29.280 And, I mean, it's helping.

01:15:31.860 You know, it's really helping.

01:15:33.300 And then we get into the military stuff, and it's super descriptive.

01:15:38.320 And, you know, and I want it to be, I don't want a condensed format

01:15:41.320 because when I started doing this, I wanted to do it because

01:15:44.400 these guys weren't getting a voice in the media at all.

01:15:50.300 Yep.

01:15:50.840 And when they did, it was a 30-second blurb.

01:15:55.580 And, you know, so why are we having talking heads in the media documenting what happened over there with a bunch of people that weren't there that thought they knew?

01:16:08.280 And so I wanted to it kind of started with I wanted to just document history the way it actually happened with people that were at the events.

01:16:17.840 And so now we've got, you know, just about every major operation that has happened.

01:16:22.840 And we got—

01:16:24.760 I heard the one with—forgive me, I don't remember his name,

01:16:27.040 but the gentleman who lost his arm and his leg in the Afghanistan withdrawal.

01:16:31.900 Tyler Vargas.

01:16:32.980 Oh, my God.

01:16:33.920 And that—just his whole life had been rough with the dad who was a child molester.

01:16:39.540 And it was just—there was a lot in there.

01:16:42.200 And those stories are—they're infuriating, right, because they're recent and we lived them.

01:16:47.120 And we still have those same leaders who have yet to make any apology for what happened to guys like Tyler.

01:16:53.140 Nothing.

01:16:54.440 Yeah, it's very discouraging.

01:16:57.580 I mean, he's a perfect example, though.

01:16:59.080 You know, he interviewed with Good Morning America for seven hours.

01:17:04.900 Did he really?

01:17:05.680 And they released, I believe he said, five seconds of that interview because it made POTUS look so bad.

01:17:13.240 and and so i had reached out to him i wanted to give him the opportunity to get his story out

01:17:21.800 and he had testified in front of congress and no no i mean none of us were getting the actual

01:17:26.660 boots on the ground version of what the hell happened during that withdrawal and so he came

01:17:32.540 on we got it out they tried to censor us and and he had all kinds of of actual footage of what was

01:17:40.920 going on and they kept dinging us oh you can't have that in there you can't have that in there

01:17:44.800 and who was youtube you know and it's like guys like this happened like how dare you censor what

01:17:52.500 happened to a u.s marine yeah you know it's it's like this is actual footage this is a lot of this

01:17:59.760 footage has been some of it had been in the media and it's like guys you can't like this is this is

01:18:05.100 what happened so we yanked all the footage and then put it behind um put put the real version

01:18:11.580 behind a paywall because the most important thing was just to get his story out and we wound up

01:18:16.820 it wound up we wound up getting it getting it out you know after several attempts but um not for

01:18:22.940 nothing i know this isn't at all why you're doing this but in any sane world you'd be getting an

01:18:27.980 award for that kind of coverage in any sane world somebody like you would get recognized

01:18:32.340 with a Peabody for something like that.

01:18:34.980 Not the nonsense that now gets rewarded with Pulitzers

01:18:37.960 and other awards like the Cronkite.

01:18:40.420 That's actual journalism,

01:18:42.120 actually getting the story and being unafraid to tell it

01:18:44.140 no matter where it takes you.

01:18:45.520 Thank you.

01:18:46.900 We actually pulled a soundbite from that interview.

01:18:49.820 Here he is, Tyler Vargas Andrews,

01:18:52.440 talking about what happened during the attack

01:18:55.480 as we withdrew from Afghanistan.

01:18:57.260 like 10 minutes goes by and just flash and just get hit with this massive wave of pressure and

01:19:05.140 then i'm like my eyes my eyes are closed my vision is black and i'm like slowly coming to

01:19:10.460 my right ear is just like super high-pitched ringing my left ear is muffled and i can just

01:19:16.560 hear people screaming in the distance and i'm just like struggling to open my eyes finally can open 0.94

01:19:22.060 my eyes and it was someone else's fucking body part just like laying in front of me and the people 0.97

01:19:26.900 on the other side of the canal just immediately in front of me just got fucking evaporated i kept 1.00

01:19:31.640 trying to stand up i'm like fuck like why can't i stand up and we started taking fucking shots 0.99

01:19:36.060 from the neighborhood and like almost immediately after the blast i tried my fucking hardest to 0.99

01:19:41.800 crawl backwards all i could do was like put my left arm on the ground and i'm just like 0.90

01:19:46.140 fuck like why is my right arm not working and i remember lifting it up it's there but it's just 0.97

01:19:50.940 like fucking shredded up at the elbow and bloodied and i'm just fucking red everywhere 0.99

01:19:57.200 pretty horrific we just got into this recently because president biden's former press secretary 0.99

01:20:08.680 jen saki wrote a book trying to say it's not true he looked at his watch when the bodies came

01:20:14.620 home to Dover. It's a lie. He looked at his watch several times. She's still running cover for him

01:20:22.160 in her job as a so-called journalist. It's on tape. You can see it repeatedly. There he is

01:20:27.320 in the ceremony over and over trying to sneak in glances. And some of the parents of the fallen

01:20:32.400 are very angry still about that and now about the lies to whitewash it. But no one ever got

01:20:39.680 fired for any of it yeah so how are these guys you know like tyler feeling about about that about

01:20:47.960 the administration how it was handled i mean they're they're enraged we're all enraged i mean

01:20:54.240 do you know that we're sending 40 million dollars a week to the taliban now right it's actually like

01:20:59.940 43 to 87 million a week the Taliban yep the same people that we fought for what 20 20 plus years 0.72

01:21:10.420 who are now not allowing girls to go to school dressing them in full burqas 0.68

01:21:16.340 marrying them off at age 12 that those people yeah cutting people's heads off assassinating 0.99

01:21:24.000 all of our allies over there lining them up shooting them in the back of the head 0.95

01:21:28.480 And, I mean, it's pretty, I just don't know how anybody can support that. 0.97

01:21:38.260 Why are we doing that?

01:21:39.060 Why are we doing that?

01:21:40.300 Why are we giving Iran money, you know, or we're up until 10-7?

01:21:45.660 I don't, you know, I wish I could answer that.

01:21:49.320 I don't, I just don't know.

01:21:52.520 It doesn't, you know, what's up is down now and what's left is right.

01:21:56.880 What's black is white. 0.80

01:21:57.780 And it's the deconstruction of America.

01:22:07.520 Well, what do you, I mean, it's got to be directly related to the recruiting rates, no?

01:22:12.320 Like, guys are looking at this saying, why would I join up for that?

01:22:18.300 There's no responsibility.

01:22:19.560 Our lives are taken for granted.

01:22:23.060 No one gets fired.

01:22:24.320 No one says sorry.

01:22:25.640 We continue to funnel money to our enemies 0.92

01:22:27.900 who how much blood and treasure was lost in Afghanistan

01:22:30.600 fighting the same group, which we're now funding.

01:22:32.780 I just like, I know people say that's not it.

01:22:34.920 No, I think that's it.

01:22:35.780 We looked at the surveys

01:22:36.580 as to why guys are not signing up anymore.

01:22:39.160 And like the top item was fear of death,

01:22:43.140 which is okay, yes, normal, but for centuries,

01:22:48.140 and guys have been getting past that

01:22:49.860 and signing up anyway, but they're not.

01:22:52.420 So what is it?

01:22:53.580 I mean, I think it has to do with a lot of things. I think it had to do with the forced vaxes. I think it has to do with the woke agenda. I mean, nobody – I mean, talk about miscalculating your body of work.

01:23:09.300 I mean, it is not liberal Democrat families that sign up for the military.

01:23:17.640 It is middle class to low class conservative families, and you just alienated your entire base.

01:23:25.440 Nobody wants to do that.

01:23:27.420 Nobody wants to go to become a SEAL, to be going to gender ideology crash courses and pronoun training or whatever the hell else they're doing in there, how not to be a right-wing extremist. 0.94

01:23:43.060 Deal with your white rage. 0.79

01:23:44.740 Yeah, yeah. 0.97

01:23:46.500 And, I mean, I think it's that.

01:23:50.300 I think it's the way the war's ended.

01:23:51.800 I think it's the new advertising that they do for recruitment. 1.00

01:23:57.840 She's a lesbian.

01:23:58.780 Her mothers are LGBTQ. 1.00

01:24:01.180 It's everything.

01:24:03.240 Everything about what the messaging they're putting out is, who are they going to get?

01:24:12.380 Right.

01:24:12.560 I mean, the numbers are at record lows, and we are precariously perched on possible conflict, God forbid, in Ukraine.

01:24:24.240 The United States doesn't want any part of that.

01:24:27.260 God forbid the Middle East.

01:24:29.360 And they're still talking about Taiwan.

01:24:30.900 Like, it's like, I don't know, like, we might actually get involved over there.

01:24:35.320 I was talking to a former Navy SEAL whose name you would know, and he was like, we're not going to win the Taiwan thing.

01:24:41.820 like they're going to take it China's going to take it and there's not much we're going to be

01:24:46.580 able to do about it without actually getting involved militarily boots on the ground and

01:24:51.500 the American people aren't going to want that like if if China takes it his analysis was we're

01:24:55.580 going to have to let him take it I mean we'll probably provoke him to take it just to start

01:25:00.080 another war just to spin up the military industrial complex more than it already is and and I mean

01:25:06.220 And that seems to be what we do is we provoke and then capitalize.

01:25:13.020 Can you zoom out on that, Sean?

01:25:15.680 Explain that to me because I understand people throw that term around, military-industrial complex.

01:25:20.540 But you understand it better than most.

01:25:23.660 Yeah.

01:25:24.000 So the military – I mean let's take it back to the Iraq war.

01:25:29.640 I don't think we should have been there. 1.00

01:25:30.900 At the time, I think, yeah, it was great.

01:25:33.400 I got action.

01:25:34.060 I got to do what I signed up to do. 1.00

01:25:36.520 We got to kill a bunch of bad guys. 0.99

01:25:38.800 Now that I'm older and I'm out and I see a bigger picture, I mean, I just think it's 0.98

01:25:43.200 kind of weird that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton.

01:25:46.180 Halliburton was the biggest logistics, not the biggest, probably the only logistics company

01:25:53.180 in both wars.

01:25:55.720 And so everywhere you went, it was Halliburton did the laundry.

01:26:00.920 Halliburton did the gas.

01:26:02.180 Halliburton built the barracks.

01:26:03.940 Halliburton built the chow hall. Halliburton cooked the food. Halliburton did, they did everything, the mail, everything. It was KBR Halliburton. He was the CEO of that. So all infrastructure in the entire Iraq war was Halliburton, who is the former CEO, is the vice president of the United States.

01:26:29.400 mm-hmm that's what we're getting at you know there's then there's there's you know there's

01:26:37.420 Boeing Lockheed Martin Raytheon Northrop Grumman and all of these they make a lot of the tech and

01:26:45.900 the missiles and the planes and all of these sorts of things guns um communications equipment

01:26:53.820 And everything that is new that's being developed, it's not the government developing it.

01:27:00.700 It's these companies that get paid ungodly amounts of money to fund, to develop things you would use in war.

01:27:14.420 And then they put people like Nikki Haley on their boards.

01:27:17.020 Exactly.

01:27:17.420 I mean, she not only was on the Boeing board, but she has a husband who's making military vehicles right now.

01:27:25.660 That's his side business, where he's making the vehicles that will be used in war, which they profit off of.

01:27:31.840 Yeah.

01:27:32.520 This is what you're talking about.

01:27:34.040 And then she, you know, in her world, was about to step into the presidency and, what, have zero conflicts?

01:27:40.800 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:41.600 or you know like ukraine i mean we send all of our stuff over all of our missiles our tanks our

01:27:48.640 uavs our javelins whatever you fill in the blank and so now we have to replenish all the stockpiles

01:27:55.720 and which is making these companies it's given the companies work to make more money and and

01:28:02.060 that's what this i'm convinced that that's what this is all about the saber rattling

01:28:07.920 and the reason the politicians do it is because these are big donors yeah i mean i can't be you

01:28:16.020 know you would probably know more about that than i do but yeah i mean lobbying organizations uh

01:28:22.520 hey you look at all the people that are like that are supporting what's going on in ukraine and

01:28:29.720 and russia and and still yeah still it's it's in why were we i mean why were we in afghanistan for

01:28:37.560 20 plus years just to completely abandon it yeah you know there was so many things we could have

01:28:43.780 used there we gave up bob bob air force base uh one of the most strategic air force bases in the

01:28:50.980 world afghanistan has endless amounts of lithium that we could utilize for our green initiative

01:28:58.280 right but we'll just give those over to china and let them sell us the lithium even though we had

01:29:05.020 built all the infrastructure there and they're already mining it why why would we do that why

01:29:10.060 would we give it up yeah because we made a decision to cut and run and that was the decision we were

01:29:15.380 going to live by i guess i mean i i mean i can't i can't find any logic i mean the problem is on

01:29:22.420 that one both parties are to blame right i mean trump came up with a plan and then biden executed

01:29:27.300 it terribly yeah but i mean trump too wanted to pull us out of there and not keep anything i mean

01:29:32.060 i realized we were over war and i mean the forever wars are a real thing and people who grew up i

01:29:39.700 mean i'm a little older than you are but both of us grew up in a time where in the beginnings we

01:29:44.640 thought these are just wars and we're serving a worthy cause here and we understand why the united

01:29:50.900 States is doing it. It's only having sort of been in the midst of this like belief and then seeing

01:29:57.460 it all crash down and then seeing the aftermath that you realize I was sold a bag of goods.

01:30:01.440 Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting if you can take yourself out of the, you know, the politics

01:30:07.300 and in your emotional state and look at these things from like a 30,000 foot view and it might

01:30:16.600 paint a different perspective and you know maybe maybe we aren't the good guys

01:30:22.000 Expedia you're here but are you here here you go to Hawaii in your head all the time

01:30:33.960 during meetings in the car Hawaii is on the mind but when you're ready to go

01:30:39.520 there's Expedia the one place you go to go places flights hotels vacation homes cars

01:30:45.540 you can save when you bundle or book as you go and still save.

01:30:49.980 So what are you waiting for?

01:30:51.700 Expedia, the one place you go to go places.

01:30:54.980 Members only savings vary.

01:30:59.500 What do you think will happen with Ukraine?

01:31:01.560 I mean, at what point does the United States say they're not, they can't win.

01:31:07.520 This is throwing good money after bad and get more aggressive

01:31:11.600 about forcing some sort of compromised end to this thing.

01:31:15.540 man what do i think will happen in ukraine i think

01:31:19.480 i mean i think a change in the presidency could possibly end it ours or ukraine's ours i don't

01:31:28.880 think theirs will ever i mean why would you not now yeah why would you so much they're getting

01:31:34.760 so much out of this but um i'm just saying like i don't know that the ukrainian people are as 0.88

01:31:38.720 insane as zelensky seems with his you know no compromise we're gonna see it through to the end 0.68

01:31:42.840 all your people will be dead yeah yeah i don't know i mean i think uh

01:31:48.240 i think this bricks thing has a lot i think that things will get interesting when china starts

01:31:58.620 making more moves that's what i think i don't think any of these wars are going anywhere should

01:32:04.440 we have nothing to do with that with with taiwan china man you're asking some tough questions

01:32:12.440 And that's one I think we would probably need to step in on.

01:32:21.240 Actually step in, though.

01:32:22.280 I mean, do you agree boots on the ground will be required?

01:32:24.600 How are we going to fight that one from drones?

01:32:30.060 How are we going to fight that?

01:32:31.540 I think that I don't know.

01:32:38.080 definitely

01:32:40.900 a lot of navy

01:32:45.020 that's right 0.80

01:32:46.840 we don't have enough ships

01:32:48.660 a lot of navy

01:32:49.800 and I think all of our allies

01:32:53.980 would need to come together

01:32:54.960 to

01:32:55.380 I mean I think that

01:32:57.860 I mean I personally think we're on the brink of

01:33:00.320 World War 3 1.00

01:33:01.440 with China

01:33:02.080 over Taiwan 1.00

01:33:04.200 I mean look at all the angles they have on us 1.00

01:33:08.060 You know, they they are behind the fentanyl crisis. They're sending in all the supplies. They're trading the cartels how to make the world's most potent fentanyl.

01:33:19.380 Actually, now now they're teaching them how to make Nidison, which so went from what heroin to fentanyl to Nidison.

01:33:27.720 They're behind they're behind that. They're buying all our farmland. They're capturing all of our elites, politicians and just tech gurus.

01:33:37.240 I mean, I have to mention the spying this.

01:33:41.020 Yeah, I mean, we have our I mean, yeah, that's that's out there, right?

01:33:44.960 What's his name was sleeping with a Chinese spy.

01:33:47.260 Eric Swalwell, right?

01:33:49.620 Is that I get I get my far left Democrats confused.

01:33:52.820 I can't remember his name, but that's who it was.

01:33:55.580 But I mean, they have they have so I mean, look at California.

01:34:00.200 From what I understand, all the real estate signs now are all in Chinese.

01:34:03.800 And I've always wondered, I mean, you see this massive migration happening all across the country with red states being inundated with people fleeing California, New York, Chicago.

01:34:19.800 And I've always wondered, you know, who's buying all this real estate over there?

01:34:24.640 If everybody's leaving, who's buying all this real estate?

01:34:27.920 They're selling it to China.

01:34:29.960 We rolled out the red carpet for them when it came to visit.

01:34:32.620 their takeover of hollywood yeah the nba yeah they have more money than god when it comes to

01:34:41.000 buying things that are american or american owned you know their own people can suffer

01:34:44.920 but they're very interested in spending tons of money buying up our industries and our land

01:34:51.660 and we're just suckers for the dollar so we say yes yeah you know that's why that's why the nba

01:34:58.620 said, sure, we'll, we'll do whatever you want and we won't criticize you. That's why Hollywood takes

01:35:04.280 anything they find offensive out of its films so they can make money over in China on, you know,

01:35:10.600 the sales there. We've bent the knee, you know, to our Chinese masters. So you're right. It's 0.98

01:35:15.240 happening in more and more. People just aren't paying attention. They're living their lives,

01:35:17.880 not paying attention to a little bit more here and there, but they're not. It's happening all

01:35:21.260 over the world. I mean, look what they're doing in Africa. You know, they're settling Africa. 1.00

01:35:24.880 They are the influence in Afghanistan now. 0.99

01:35:29.420 I mean, they have- 0.99

01:35:30.040 They go in with their money

01:35:30.940 and they make these countries dependent on them.

01:35:33.840 And that used to be us.

01:35:35.340 That used to be the United States

01:35:36.360 being the leader of the free world

01:35:37.760 and being out there helping the third world countries

01:35:39.680 and creating some loyalty and some allyship.

01:35:46.040 We're not doing that anymore, but China is.

01:35:49.740 You're exactly right.

01:35:50.940 And then it's just, I mean, that right there alone shows how many angles they have.

01:35:58.300 And I know there's more.

01:35:59.240 I'm just put on the spot.

01:36:02.000 It's scary to think about.

01:36:03.960 It is.

01:36:04.700 You know, it's very scary.

01:36:06.440 And I don't think people understand, you know, how pertinent it is that we need to start addressing this stuff like yesterday.

01:36:16.320 I mean, the one thing we have going for us is their economy is not strong.

01:36:19.600 That's what I keep hearing.

01:36:20.940 But I hear both sides, you know, and I don't, I mean, they have so much influence across the world now. 0.53

01:36:33.760 And their version, I mean, the BRICS initiative, you're aware of the BRICS initiative, you know, and devaluing our currency.

01:36:43.600 And I think the last time I checked, there's like 22 countries on board that now.

01:36:46.960 there's and there's it's a sketchy crew but they have a lot of money yeah so now more than ever we

01:36:54.980 need new up and coming the next generation of sean ryan's yeah yeah i guess so so what do you do

01:37:01.540 trump's gotta win and people have to see america as strong again and maybe you'll be a little afraid

01:37:07.940 of us you know i mean that's um the new york times just did a poll showing that trump's beating

01:37:13.960 Biden in five out of the six swing states, same as it was in November, by a healthy margin in most

01:37:20.100 of them. And they were so befuddled by their own poll, they went back to their, to the people who

01:37:25.700 responded to say like, why, why again? What is it? Really? The orange man? He's so bad. How could

01:37:31.500 you? Insurrectionist. And in particular, it was interesting because they went to some black voters

01:37:36.560 saying, we don't get it. Why are your numbers surging? And they said, oh, you know, we don't

01:37:40.360 we don't love Trump. He's got a big mouth. He says some stuff we don't like, but he's strong.

01:37:45.060 And I think the country's going to be a little safer with him in there. It keeps people off

01:37:49.580 balance. And then others said, the economy, I don't need to like him. I need my wallet to be

01:37:54.900 a little fatter. And it was, they just did some look back and the economy was like definably 16%

01:38:01.160 more was going into people's average paychecks under Trump than it is now.

01:38:04.860 um so yeah we need a strong leader there's a chance we won't get one it's not a lock trump wins

01:38:14.160 robert kennedy also anti-military industrial complex could you ever vote for him i think i

01:38:21.140 could vote for him could you yeah i definitely could vote for him he's too left for me on many

01:38:25.960 many issues but i'm not as hardcore conservative as like a lot of my audience um i love that he's

01:38:33.440 kind of anti-establishment, anti-military industrial complex, anti-big pharma, that

01:38:38.760 he's an environmental lawyer.

01:38:40.440 I'm actually, I'm kind of green.

01:38:42.240 I like the green agenda, not the green new deal or any of that nonsense.

01:38:45.180 But like, I, as a mother, you know, I would like to see us be a little bit more realistic

01:38:48.960 about climate change.

01:38:49.760 Hey, you know, that's, that's something I love talking about this, you know, because 0.99

01:38:53.560 you, you do something positive for the planet and conservatives like throw a shit fit. 0.99

01:38:58.360 Yes. 0.99

01:38:58.900 And it's like, Hey man, we live here.

01:39:01.560 Right.

01:39:01.900 in case you haven't noticed, everybody's dying of cancer. Cancer from shit in our foods, 1.00

01:39:09.240 cancer from shit in the air, cancer from everything. It might be good for us to 1.00

01:39:15.740 improve the planet a little bit, but that's just my take.

01:39:19.080 What if we had a RFKJ in there saying, don't eat that, don't do that, that's not getting a blessing

01:39:24.500 anymore, this is a problem over here, that he spent his whole life filing lawsuits against

01:39:29.900 people who are polluting our environment in one way, shape, or form. I love that. I realize,

01:39:34.940 I mean, he said he would allow abortion until the ninth month, then he walked it back. He's

01:39:40.800 not good on my issue, which is women's rights against the crazy trans lobby, but I have more 1.00

01:39:47.400 issues than just that. So I definitely could vote for RRKJ. I just asked him about the full-term

01:39:53.480 abortion thing. I just interviewed him last week, and he told me that the only reason that he would

01:39:59.860 go full term would be for the mother if she was going to die. If she, if she, if there was a

01:40:05.560 life threatening. So he's arrived at that a little late. Yeah. He told Sage Steele, it's up to the

01:40:10.980 mom. Okay. Whatever she wants all the way through ninth month. And then Sage, who's amazing, was

01:40:16.140 like, a lot of us get uncomfortable when you say it's okay for a mother just based on her own

01:40:22.320 desire to abort a baby at full term. And he answered it again saying, well, I would. Oh,

01:40:27.260 really but then all the shit storm came and he walked it back it was like oh never mind gotcha 0.95

01:40:33.120 i mean i understand if that's your biggest issue and it is for a lot of you know deeply faithful 0.84

01:40:38.120 people in particular he's out yeah but anyway it all depends on your hierarchy of you know

01:40:45.520 principles and i just i love how anti-establishment he is me too man me too so speaking of faith

01:40:53.440 you are you've had a bit of a metamorphosis in your own life on this front is that because

01:41:00.520 of Katie or is that your own journey that's my own journey and um do you want me to go into it

01:41:08.060 yeah okay um well so I interview some really I have some really heavy interviews uh Tyler

01:41:19.320 Andrew Vargas was one of them and I mean I it's been a long time since I've seen that and to see

01:41:26.820 a 24 year old you know my studios on the second floor and to watch him hobble up there with one

01:41:34.560 leg one arm you know it's just it's it got to me and the the day before I interviewed him I

01:41:43.960 I interviewed a hacker who had hacked into all these websites and kind of pedophilia websites and downloaded all the user lists, got it to the FBI.

01:41:57.180 The FBI did nothing with it until I interviewed him.

01:42:01.240 And super dark interview.

01:42:06.000 The reality is, I mean, we pulled, we caught a child predator in five seconds.

01:42:13.960 Because I didn't realize, I was like, you hear about this stuff, right?

01:42:17.600 And how common it is.

01:42:20.280 But you don't, I don't, I didn't see it.

01:42:23.120 And so he's in there and we're doing the interview.

01:42:25.280 And I said, hey, you got your laptop, pull it out.

01:42:27.900 Get in any, I don't care what it is, Instagram, TikTok, whatever team chat room you want.

01:42:33.320 I just want to see how long this takes.

01:42:35.740 He made the screen name Ashley 13, New Jersey.

01:42:41.420 Literally five seconds.

01:42:42.840 It's on camera.

01:42:43.620 we screen recorded until he was in like a room where five seconds before a 40 something year

01:42:48.960 old man was wanting to meet a 13 year old girl at a wherever sick yeah and so so that's that that's

01:42:58.560 what i mean this is the stuff that i cover and um so me and my wife were going on vacation i just

01:43:04.820 i just finished up those two interviews the especially the one with with ryan montgomery

01:43:09.380 He's the hacker.

01:43:11.100 That just really got to me.

01:43:13.280 You know, the kid stuff really gets to me.

01:43:15.380 The guys who work in that industry shutting those down.

01:43:19.100 Yeah.

01:43:19.500 It's a very hard life.

01:43:21.120 Yeah.

01:43:22.000 And so we went to Sedona and there was also, what else was happening?

01:43:28.020 The Chinese spy balloon just flew over.

01:43:32.500 The, I saw, I think it was, was it Reba came out saying, 1.00

01:43:38.660 I know I think it's freedom of speech that that drag queens should be able to, you know, show up at your town library kids. 0.97

01:43:47.000 And I'm just and I got to this point where I was like, man, am I the only person that like gives a shit about this stuff that actually cares about kids? 0.95

01:43:56.500 And like why we just abandoned our allies in Afghanistan and why is there a 24 year old that was blown up unnecessarily? 0.97

01:44:05.320 I mean, they had the guy P.I.D. in his sights.

01:44:07.800 They could have killed that bomber, you know, and now all of his friends are dead.

01:44:13.620 And so these are all the things that are going through my head.

01:44:16.960 And I had hit this point.

01:44:22.120 I was having a conversation in my head, and I had hit this point where it was like, why do you even talk about this stuff anymore?

01:44:29.460 Nobody cares.

01:44:30.720 You know about the maps thing, minor attracted persons.

01:44:33.740 Yes, they're trying to redefine pedophilia into this minor attracted person, normal, just like a fetish.

01:44:40.780 You know, like some people have a foot fetish, some people have a toddler fetish, and we're supposed to accept this. 0.99

01:44:46.260 Yeah, and, you know, and so I'm just seeing all these things, and I'm like, how can anybody, like, buy into this shit? 0.99

01:44:56.200 I have I have I have family that like votes left, you know, and it's it's it gets to me. 0.71

01:45:07.760 It makes my skin crawl like I can't I don't understand how anybody can support any of the what I just list rattled off.

01:45:16.400 And so it got to me and I got to this point where I was like, I'm not I can't like I can't live like this anymore. 0.97

01:45:23.840 Like, I can't, if nobody gives a shit, maybe I'm, maybe I am the one that is, maybe I'm the one that has something wrong with it. 0.96

01:45:31.640 You know, maybe, maybe this is all acceptable and I just, I'm not, my brain isn't switching. 0.98

01:45:36.740 Maybe I'm the problem and I shouldn't be fighting this anymore.

01:45:41.240 I need to, I need to be happy.

01:45:43.340 And it basically felt like I was surrendering to evil.

01:45:49.780 and uh and i was trying to convince myself to be fine with it so we're staying in this nice resort

01:45:59.020 in sedona uh they got a uh guarded gate and i pay attention to that kind of stuff because of my

01:46:04.600 background and uh a lot of the guys knew me that worked in there for the from from my podcast and

01:46:11.200 and wanted to talk well this we were there for a week the last day i walked through and it's this

01:46:16.620 old uh old man in there and he's wanting to talk to me me and my wife had gone up to a hike because

01:46:24.120 i was like i just i gotta get the hell out of here maybe a hike will make me feel better walk

01:46:27.660 back down and and this guy starts trying to talk to me it's dark at this point i had already kind

01:46:34.200 of surrendered like i'm done i didn't feel good but i kind of made my decision like i'm not doing

01:46:39.280 this anymore and um i'm kind of looking at him over the shoulder like and i'm i'm not in the 0.62

01:46:46.380 mood to like strike up a conversation and but my wife starts talking to him and I'm like shit I 0.70

01:46:55.340 just want to go to my room so I turn around and this guy this guy read my mind from front to back

01:47:04.820 and I mean like I've never had that happen it wasn't it I mean it was descriptive it was it

01:47:14.800 scared the shit out of me because i was like how are you how how are you in my head and uh he

01:47:21.660 started rattling off all these thoughts that i was having on that entire hike and he's like 0.81

01:47:25.980 this stuff that's going on in china that's not your fight anymore and this stuff that's going

01:47:32.040 on with the kids that's not your fight either and this stuff that's going on with the trans

01:47:36.900 community that's not your fight and and i my i had shut down i was like well how was this guy

01:47:44.020 in my head right now so freaked me out we're walking back to to our bungalow we were in a

01:47:51.100 place where it was like kind of like a duplex and um we're on one side somebody else on another side

01:47:57.120 we got there we got when we got to Sedona uh my best friend that I was referring to earlier his

01:48:04.520 name's gabe he he died of a of a heroin overdose uh later on but uh gabe was a seal gabe was a

01:48:13.380 pro hockey player gabe was a fighter uh was into mma gabe was at the agency with me and no matter

01:48:20.520 where gabe was gabe was always always known as a protector like no matter what unit he was in no

01:48:27.680 matter what, who he was with could be the, the, the, the manliest of all men. Like everybody knows

01:48:35.360 Gabe has got you. And, and he was my best friend. Well, we get there and we see this guy and he

01:48:42.940 looks identical. He could be Gabe's identical twin. I mean, you could see differences, but

01:48:47.720 same brow line, same jawline, same build, same walk, same three-day shadow, same everything,

01:48:54.520 muscular and me and my wife were both like man that looks exactly like Gabe and everywhere we

01:49:02.220 would go this guy was at if we were at the pool this guy was at the pool if we were going on a

01:49:07.420 hike this guy was coming back from a hike if we were out in town getting dinner he was out in town

01:49:11.860 getting dinner and and we had always thought it was weird because I'd kind of had a breakdown on

01:49:18.860 the plane, uh, to Sedona. And so I was in a vulnerable spot. My wife knew it. I was in a

01:49:26.120 vulnerable spot. I knew it. Uh, I was with my buddy Dave and he knew it. And it was just odd

01:49:32.800 that Gabe, who's always known as a protector is like every, this guy that looks identical to him

01:49:38.180 is, is everywhere. Well, it turns out right from that gate, we walked to our bungalow and it turns

01:49:46.760 out this guy and his family is staying right across the the thing from us and we hadn't seen 0.84

01:49:53.120 him all week and I'm like that was weird and on the way back I'm telling Katie I'm like holy shit

01:49:58.100 like I think I think that was God that was reading my mind and she's like yeah Sean that was God and

01:50:06.240 I'm like I can't believe this like how is this happening and and she's like Sean God's always

01:50:11.840 been around you you just don't make time for him and uh i knew that to be true so we get to the

01:50:19.640 bungalow gabe staying across the way or the the look-alike whatever uh you want to call it he's

01:50:26.060 we find out he's staying right across this is all within like 10-15 minutes then we go in and i i am

01:50:31.400 i'm crying and i'm like i can't believe this is happening and right before also right before we

01:50:37.640 went to Zona. A good friend of mine, his name was Dan Cirillo, died. He was kind of the only,

01:50:46.220 he was a SEAL and a businessman, and he lived in Franklin. And I don't have a lot of people

01:50:53.160 that I can relate to where I live now in Franklin. And Dan is one of those guys that

01:51:01.340 that he's very successful he owned a couple of hospitals he owned a a big security business

01:51:09.060 and he's like one of the few people that i can sit down with and talk business and talk friends

01:51:14.040 and he doesn't need anything from me and i don't need anything from him and those

01:51:17.400 you know those relationships get hard to come by and uh so we hit it off really fast and then he

01:51:24.380 died on a hunting trip with his son had a heart attack and um and uh but hey i mean that if there's

01:51:31.760 a way to go good on him but uh anyways his daughter who i had never met i'm having this

01:51:40.340 breakdown in the in the hotel and uh his daughter i heard my phone go go off while i was talking to

01:51:48.840 katie and as soon as we kind of finished what we were talking about about what was going on

01:51:54.200 I check my phone, and it's from his daughter, and it's this text.

01:52:03.940 I'd never even met her before, and she says, she must have got my number from her dad's phone,

01:52:12.220 and she said, hey, Sean, this is Taylor, Dan's daughter,

01:52:17.900 and I just walked into my dad's gun room for the first time since he had passed away,

01:52:23.300 and he grabbed me by the arm and told me that I needed to contact you

01:52:30.980 because you knew a side of him that nobody else knew

01:52:33.520 and that he wanted me to tell you that he loves you just the way that you are

01:52:40.240 and that you're doing exactly what you should be doing.

01:52:44.280 And then I'm trying not to lose it right now.

01:52:48.480 But so that was like the third thing all within, like I said, 10, 15 minutes. 0.99

01:52:56.380 And I was like, holy shit, like, there's no denying this one. 0.98

01:53:02.140 Exactly. 0.99

01:53:03.640 A little brick wall.

01:53:05.320 Yeah.

01:53:06.280 And so, you know, I grew up Catholic and never really took church seriously.

01:53:14.540 I never did.

01:53:15.600 And then when I left home, I never really went back, and it kind of lost faith.

01:53:20.020 And I'm not saying I wasn't a believer.

01:53:21.880 I just didn't really care, and I didn't think about it.

01:53:24.760 And I had definitely no time for God.

01:53:29.680 And so I took that as a, I mean, that was like a slap in the face,

01:53:34.180 and I decided I needed to get serious about faith and at least look into it.

01:53:38.580 And so I started looking into it, and it's been great.

01:53:42.640 And, you know, to be honest, it's the only thing I can find that makes any damn sense anymore.

01:53:47.880 And it's all in that book.

01:53:49.980 Everything we're seeing happening right now is in that book.

01:53:52.320 Is that how you started, just reading the Bible?

01:53:54.200 I did.

01:53:55.020 I did.

01:53:55.420 I started trying to read it from front to back, and I wasn't really getting anywhere.

01:54:01.240 Some shocking stuff in that Old Testament, if you go that way.

01:54:04.940 Yeah.

01:54:05.160 And but then turns out, as it turns out, my entire team, I'm really close with my team, my podcast team, the guys that work for me and make it what it is.

01:54:19.800 And it turns out one guy was raised Southern Baptist, super well-versed in the Bible.

01:54:25.320 My editor, Darren, grew up a Jehovah's Witness and escaped it, but knows that book from front to back. 0.70

01:54:38.120 My IT guy, Adam, devout Catholic, knows it all.

01:54:44.940 Everything, Elijah, my production manager, he's the Southern Baptist guy.

01:54:49.760 And they kind of started pouring into me.

01:54:52.360 and a lot of my buddies that were in the SEAL teams,

01:54:57.720 Eddie Penny really kind of paved the way for all of this, I think.

01:55:02.420 Eddie Penny was a, we were a team two together,

01:55:05.460 and then he went on to Dev Group,

01:55:08.500 and just like a mob.

01:55:11.000 I mean, not who you would expect to come to faith,

01:55:16.180 but he was my Christmas episode a couple years ago,

01:55:20.800 And ever since he came on and gave his testimony of how he came to, everybody that's been on the show has brought it up.

01:55:31.620 And he became kind of a mentor of mine.

01:55:34.920 So I called Eddie and told him.

01:55:37.340 And I said, hey, this is what happened.

01:55:39.840 I don't really know where to start.

01:55:41.740 I don't really know what this means.

01:55:45.000 And we had a conversation.

01:55:46.760 and uh he goes who he was like oh man he's like a lot of us have been praying for this to happen

01:55:53.680 wow and that kind of freaked me i was like well what do you mean and uh he's like we've been

01:55:59.620 waiting for this he's like you have a big voice and and this needs to happen and so that was at

01:56:08.100 about midnight i'm now i'm getting into some other kind of weird synchronicity uh coincidences

01:56:14.380 And so about 12 hours later, I had a meeting that Adam, my IT guy, had scheduled with me at noon.

01:56:24.860 And Eddie was telling me during the conversation, he was talking about guardian angels and all this other stuff that was spiritual warfare, stuff that I'd known like nothing about.

01:56:35.140 Well, fast forward 12 hours, I'm talking to Adam.

01:56:38.540 I didn't know what this meeting was.

01:56:39.660 I thought it was about email marketing or something.

01:56:41.600 and uh he wanted to talk to me about spiritual warfare and guardian angels wow and i was like

01:56:49.840 it was literally like almost the exact same conversation as i had had with eddie penny

01:56:55.540 you're like that's not on the drop down menu of message manager i know manager you know and

01:57:00.440 they're not friends i mean adam is with all due respect they hadn't coordinated those two guys 0.74

01:57:05.580 eddie is a built like a shit brick house a dev group operator and adam is a it computer nerd who

01:57:15.200 i love to death and uh so no they don't they don't there's no cross pollination they're not 0.97

01:57:20.960 friends i've never spoken exact same conversation at noon come home for lunch from my studio to

01:57:27.240 to be with the wife and kids, and Adam, and anyways, I go back to work, I look at my clock

01:57:36.960 in my truck, and it says it's 444. I look at the odometer, it says 444 miles left to E,

01:57:45.080 and this is four hours and 44 minutes after my conversation with Adam about guardian angels,

01:57:50.660 So I look up the meaning of 444, and it is your guardian angels want you to know that they have got you. 0.99

01:58:01.780 And I'm just, I'm like, holy shit, man. 0.78

01:58:06.500 Like, we just had two conversations about guardian angels, and now I'm saying 444 everywhere within. 0.96

01:58:12.860 You saw Gabe.

01:58:13.460 Yeah, and it's in the meaning of it supposedly, according to Google, is your guardian angels want you to know that they've got you.

01:58:24.520 And so I've been in it ever since, and I've had some great mentors and started going to church.

01:58:32.260 That didn't last very long.

01:58:33.880 And now we have a group of, there's four families, including us, a lot of trust, very close friends of ours.

01:58:45.600 And we just have a discussion every week, every Tuesday.

01:58:50.400 So when I get home today, that's what we're doing.

01:58:54.440 And it's cool.

01:58:55.980 You get to ask the tough questions.

01:58:58.400 You don't need to be embarrassed.

01:58:59.880 You're not going to offend anybody.

01:59:00.940 You don't feel judged like you're going to church.

01:59:03.880 You know, I always feel like I'm being judged.

01:59:06.640 Oh, hello, we're Catholic.

01:59:07.940 Yeah.

01:59:08.720 Built in.

01:59:09.920 And there's none of that.

01:59:12.500 And man, you know, when you kind of take all of the BS that religion kind of injects into your journey of building a relationship with the creator and Jesus, it's really interesting and it can be a lot of fun.

01:59:31.860 I know what you're saying.

01:59:32.980 My audience knows I've been having a not-unrelated struggle on that exact score.

01:59:39.340 Really?

01:59:39.980 Yeah, yeah.

01:59:41.240 I'm Catholic, lifelong Catholic, and I started the process of having my first marriage annulled.

01:59:48.580 And instead of bringing me closer to God or setting me in a path that I thought would land well,

01:59:54.140 it really has kind of alienated me.

01:59:56.740 And it's caused a bit of a crisis of faith.

01:59:59.980 You know, like, who are these middlemen I have to go through in order to have a clean relationship with God?

02:00:05.640 That doesn't make any sense to me.

02:00:07.760 I think God loves me and God sees me in a loving marriage with three wonderful kids who have two great parents who are in love.

02:00:16.620 And he's thrilled.

02:00:18.340 And he will accept me into his kingdom when it's all said and done.

02:00:23.560 And if he doesn't, it's certainly not going to be because I didn't get a paper.

02:00:26.520 I got a paper divorce from Dan, but I didn't get an annulment from a priest, you know, and then 0.57

02:00:32.860 Mary dug in a Catholic church. It doesn't make any sense to me. So that's sort of where I am right

02:00:39.380 now. I'm still wrestling with it. I got tons of great feedback. By the way, thank you to my

02:00:42.520 audience because so many thoughtful emails on it, you know, from Catholic listeners, but also

02:00:48.980 just Christian listeners who don't believe in that, you know, middleman thing either.

02:00:53.060 and I haven't resolved it well I'll keep my opinion to myself but why the middleman is a lie

02:01:03.400 there are no middlemen it's just about you and your relationship and that's it

02:01:12.400 I'll let you know that and when you think like that I mean it's a it gives me a sense of peace

02:01:20.900 You know, and then you start looking at all the stuff that's going on, like Trans Visibility Day being declared on Easter Sunday.

02:01:28.800 Like you can't tell me these aren't signs, you know, and this is all like I said, this is all in there. 0.53

02:01:35.260 I'm still reading through it. I'm not through it all yet.

02:01:37.420 I don't claim to be an expert, but but, you know, I see things.

02:01:42.560 I have a team to lean on who's well versed in this stuff and very fortunate.

02:01:46.940 and uh and it's everything we're seeing happen is in that book and when you can when you

02:01:56.640 come to that realization it's really odd but all the stuff that like all the stuff that was

02:02:04.180 bothering me and it still does bother me but at the same time it makes me stronger because

02:02:10.240 up that was supposed to happen you know up that's in that book up like really like trans visibility

02:02:20.980 day a confusion of genders on easter sunday making a mockery of the resurrection like

02:02:27.360 that was in there yep and uh and uh so so how do you feel now do you feel a difference physically

02:02:36.320 you know emotionally oh yeah now versus during the chinese trial balloon period oh yeah which

02:02:43.080 was dark definitely i mean i'm at uh i'm at peace with it i mean i'm still gonna fight the good

02:02:49.300 fight and i'm still gonna bring truth and uncover corruption and tell these stories and i'm not

02:02:53.720 gonna bend a knee to anything and and uh and but you know it it but seeing it all happen it's it

02:03:02.940 is actually making me stronger because I found something in a world of nothing that makes any

02:03:10.540 sense at all, not a damn bit of sense. This makes all the sense in the world. It's, it aligns with

02:03:16.360 the values that I've always had, or maybe I align with its values, you know, but, um, but it, yeah,

02:03:23.840 it's helped me. And, uh, and then you start learning about, you know, maybe forgiveness is

02:03:30.760 for you and not for the people that did something bad to you that was unjust you know it's it's it's

02:03:40.920 for your sense of peace not for theirs you know you can you can go on and waste all that bad energy 0.98

02:03:47.100 hating somebody and talking shit about them and you know complaining you know i got screwed over 0.93

02:03:53.060 and i'm a victim and but the minute you forgive them that's off your plate and it just it it's 0.99

02:03:59.440 It's like a cleanse.

02:04:03.620 Amen.

02:04:08.600 God bless you.

02:04:10.880 Thank you so much for coming on and telling your story and all these personal details about your life.

02:04:17.220 What a pleasure.

02:04:18.320 What an honor to know you.

02:04:19.800 Well, thank you.

02:04:20.620 Thank you for having me.

02:04:21.820 And like I said, I was really excited to meet you and just happy to be here.

02:04:27.540 I'm honored.

02:04:28.240 And honestly, God bless you.

02:04:30.140 Thank you for your service.

02:04:31.160 Thanks to all of our military members, active duty and retired,

02:04:35.020 and those we've lost for the service and sacrifice.

02:04:37.820 We appreciate it.

02:04:38.740 God bless you, too.

02:04:40.120 I hope this is a first of many, Sean.

02:04:41.880 Me, too.

02:04:43.760 It was amazing.

02:04:45.760 Thank you.

02:04:53.920 You go to Hawaii in your head all the time.

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02:05:11.060 We have an amazing show for you here.

02:05:13.580 We've got Charlie Sheen.

02:05:15.520 And we couldn't wait to talk to Charlie Sheen.

02:05:18.380 And we taped a conversation with Charlie Sheen on Tuesday of this week.

02:05:23.400 And he was amazing.

02:05:25.020 like completely honest and full of candor and self-deprecating and very reflective about the

02:05:31.540 incredible life he's had. And we had always planned with his team, they're doing a press

02:05:39.080 rollout around his book and his documentary on Netflix to air it on Friday. Well, as you know,

02:05:44.660 something massive happened in the country between Tuesday and Friday involving another Charlie.

02:05:50.180 And we asked ourselves what to do about the Charlie Sheen interview.

02:05:54.980 And in the end, we've decided to put it out because I think we need it.

02:06:00.020 I think it's good.

02:06:01.460 We can't spend every moment in darkness and thinking about the awfulness that happened on Thursday.

02:06:07.540 We can't.

02:06:09.200 I'm losing track of my days on Wednesday.

02:06:12.160 We can't and we shouldn't.

02:06:13.480 We should take a moment to watch a silly comedy or listen to a podcast about decorating.

02:06:20.500 I don't take your pick sports.

02:06:23.300 We have to continue on with our lives somewhat normally.

02:06:28.440 And so we are going to air this.

02:06:30.240 We also have an hour long program that we're airing in tribute to Charlie Kirk.

02:06:34.640 But I think you'll enjoy this hour with Charlie Sheen.

02:06:37.240 I really did.

02:06:38.440 I did not expect to like him as much as I did, and I just adore the guy now, and I think

02:06:44.700 he will too, so enjoy.

02:06:48.000 Charlie Sheen is an American actor and an icon.

02:06:51.500 His life has been a wild ride, born to father actor Martin Sheen.

02:06:55.360 What do you care if your brother ditches school?

02:06:57.180 He achieved success seemingly overnight and went on to star in films like Platoon, Wall

02:07:02.600 Street, and The Rookie.

02:07:03.980 You want a do-over?

02:07:04.940 No, I don't want a do-over.

02:07:06.200 He eventually became the highest paid actor in television history as a star on the beloved sitcom Two and a Half Men.

02:07:14.180 I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen.

02:07:16.360 But all of that success came with challenges, addiction and tumultuous relationships.

02:07:22.860 Now Charlie Sheen is eight years sober and back to tell his story his own way.

02:07:28.600 His new memoir, The Book of Sheen, tells all.

02:07:32.100 And we do mean all.

02:07:33.260 All the way to go.

02:07:34.400 and a new netflix documentary released at the same time aka charlie sheen hits this week too

02:07:41.860 i lit the fuse you know and my life turns into everything it's it wasn't supposed to be i've

02:07:49.520 read the book i've watched the documentary and i could not recommend both more than i do

02:07:55.060 charlie welcome to the show thank you thank you man it's an honor to be here thank you i can't

02:08:00.860 you didn't use a ghostwriter on this thank you for the lovely intro firstly um you bet no i i uh

02:08:07.960 there was talk of that early on and and i just thought that that wouldn't um that that wouldn't

02:08:13.520 give me an opportunity to to to deliver it um you know from the from the deepest reaches of myself

02:08:21.720 you know um and and i and i knew that that it would to the reader that it would it would feel

02:08:27.700 counterfeit you know no you can tell it's you i mean your voice all right resonates right on comes

02:08:34.000 right off the page and then if you read it while you're watching the documentary it just validates

02:08:38.340 that it's 100 you it's all you i feel like i know you so well now having read this and watched this

02:08:43.300 and here's where i want to kick it off um okay it seems like you know the addiction i said to

02:08:50.820 myself who is charlie sheen like what do i think of when i think of charlie sheen yes icon huge star

02:08:56.640 addict, of course, is one of the words, but truly also a genius. And those things are not

02:09:02.620 unusually paired. It's not unusual to see those things together. But it seems like there was a

02:09:08.960 feeling of inadequacy in, let's say, Carlos Estevez versus Charlie Sheen, the icon movie star that we

02:09:16.900 know now. And my question in watching the film and reading the book was, where did that come from?

02:09:21.980 and I'll just give you my own pitch on it. You tell me whether I have anything like the truth

02:09:26.880 here. You had a very famous father. You then had a very famous brother, both of whom went before you

02:09:34.200 and became famous in your brother's case or were famous in your dad's when you were not. You were

02:09:41.360 just a regular kid. And I think it probably had a profound effect on you being around that level

02:09:47.780 of wealth and attention directed at people around you but not at you that maybe planted some seeds

02:09:55.340 that weren't potentially healthy for you in the long haul what do you make of my theory i think

02:10:00.500 your i think your theory is is is more than just a theory i think i i think you've tapped into um

02:10:08.400 some some some very solid truths about uh about what what you know what motivated me or or at

02:10:16.940 least what um what what what what drove me um like it did because um you know for for for so long i

02:10:25.280 was i was martin sheen's son and then you you you add to that um uh and you know amelio that was

02:10:33.060 his brother um and it and it just it it it got to the point where um and and then you know growing

02:10:39.980 up on dad sets and then going out with Emilio and his crew of newly famed-minted actors that

02:10:49.720 he was making all his movies with and just seeing the type of energy and the type of

02:10:54.300 access and the type of fun and mischief that they all had such limitless access to that

02:11:04.140 that I just, I, I, I wanted a taste of it so badly and, and, and it was, it felt so close yet at the

02:11:12.200 same time it was, it was, it was light years out of reach, you know? Yeah. Because just because

02:11:18.540 you have fame in the family doesn't mean it's going to happen for you. And so even trying for

02:11:23.840 it was pretty bold on your part, but your story is not one of somebody who knew he had to be an

02:11:28.860 actor you had the thespian gene you were gonna see it through it was kind of like just happened

02:11:35.440 and then it happened really quickly yeah no it um i got i got a little bit of a warm-up i i i'd done

02:11:42.380 i'd done a couple films and um that that nobody really cared about i was just trying to trying to

02:11:47.260 get a sag card just trying to be a consistently uh employed actor and and and just you know kind

02:11:53.460 of go from one job to the next and hopefully leave some good work behind and um and then just

02:12:00.060 you know when when when i guess stuff happens when it's supposed to or or at times how it's

02:12:06.580 supposed to and you know this this this cameo just just falls out of the sky into into my lap

02:12:14.540 and and uh that was the film uh ferris bueller's day off what do you care if your brother ditches

02:12:19.900 school why should he get to ditch when everybody else has to go you could ditch gosh i'm only on

02:12:27.740 film like probably less than three minutes um and even having done a couple of lead roles

02:12:34.380 in forgettable films before that and then that thing hits and it's that thing i talk about in

02:12:40.060 the book where the day before in the grocery store um the girls thought i worked there you

02:12:46.560 You know, and then Bueller hits, and I'm no longer wearing that imaginary Vons vest, you know?

02:12:53.640 Well, I love the story behind that.

02:12:55.640 So Jennifer Gray did you a solid. 0.97

02:12:57.860 She got you the audition.

02:13:00.300 Yeah, she did.

02:13:01.280 You nonetheless showed up late.

02:13:03.980 You tried to stay up all night so you could look weathered and tired like your character and got a little too method, overslept the alarm, show up an hour and a half late. 0.70

02:13:12.800 Jennifer Gray is like, what the hell, man?

02:13:14.400 but it was a very interesting story you tell you're very insightful about how john hughes

02:13:20.140 you saw him you expected he was just going to throw you out of there and you got something

02:13:24.460 different i thought he would continue the drubbing that that that she had initiated um but with him

02:13:31.600 it it it came to a flintstones halt and um and he just like i i say in the doc and in and and the

02:13:39.780 book when he just took one look at me and he literally just said oh good you're here

02:13:44.340 let's get started and and just that what what that did for just calming my nerves and and and my

02:13:52.760 confidence and and just knowing that i was you know in the presence of a man that didn't care

02:13:57.800 about anything that that that led up to the the to the you know the moment that he needed to

02:14:03.720 to you know get his director brain around you know um so and then it's it's it's pretty cool

02:14:11.000 in the movie you can still see jennifer you can still see the the trailing effects of some of the 0.98

02:14:17.040 yes some of some of her ire and the animosity and just definitely yes no she was great in that scene

02:14:23.840 too and you stole the scene and you could argue you stole the movie and i i thought about that

02:14:30.060 with john hughes and i thought okay i understand why he did it because you walk in you're very

02:14:38.340 good looking you are like oozing the right attitude for this guy right he's like this is my

02:14:44.600 guy this is I need him in this scene and I think like that would come back to help you many times

02:14:49.980 your movie star appeal your good looks your charm and but it wasn't always a force for good like

02:14:56.260 this these things that would get you a pass from people like John Hughes that happened to you

02:15:00.260 repeatedly in your life sound good on paper but like maybe weren't because gave you a feeling of

02:15:07.580 invincibility, like you could get away with anything. And maybe that wasn't such a great

02:15:12.760 thing for the other piece of Charlie Sheen, which is the addict piece. Yeah, no, certainly was not

02:15:18.980 a great thing. I mean, it's nice to be forgiven. Obviously, it's nice to be given second chances

02:15:24.140 and all that good stuff. And we touch on this in the doc a little bit. What was interesting that

02:15:31.300 That even after not the biggest disasters or, you know, the furthest falls, but there was a pattern of, you know, fucking things up, sending shit off the rails, and then having a job literally on the other side of that event once I had, you know, once I dusted myself off.

02:16:01.300 and, you know, got back ready to work.

02:16:06.680 So, yeah, so, but, you know, I think there's two sides to that.

02:16:11.880 That didn't mean I had to take those jobs,

02:16:15.520 but it also didn't mean that they always had to be there.

02:16:19.620 Does that make any sense?

02:16:20.480 I kind of went completely around that.

02:16:22.980 I get it.

02:16:23.700 But I just think, like, opportunity kept coming your way

02:16:26.480 because you really do have true genius in this field.

02:16:30.460 that you can see it in the parts you play.

02:16:32.640 You embody these characters.

02:16:34.640 It seems to come easy to you,

02:16:36.700 like to us lay people, it certainly does.

02:16:39.600 And yet the universal rewards for those talents

02:16:43.140 may not be a good thing.

02:16:44.580 Like this kind of dawned on me

02:16:45.840 while I was reading the book.

02:16:47.260 Being universally rewarded

02:16:48.860 for these preternatural gifts,

02:16:51.360 whether it's appearance or abilities,

02:16:54.660 could in some ways be a devil on your back

02:16:57.600 because a life without consequences can lead to some bad choices

02:17:02.500 and a false feeling of invincibility.

02:17:06.460 Of course it can. Of course it can, yeah.

02:17:08.340 And there's also this thing about not having to deal with a ton of failure at first.

02:17:19.600 There's a little piece in the book where I mentioned that they teach us as kids

02:17:23.320 if at first you don't succeed, you try, try again.

02:17:26.420 And if at first you do succeed, that's where that saying ends because it was never written.

02:17:32.800 It doesn't exist, you know.

02:17:34.980 And then it's like even talking about, you know, watching dad, you know, with with with his ascent to stardom and his brilliant career and then watching Emilio.

02:17:43.360 um it's you you know i thought that that i would have a handle on what that might feel like once

02:17:52.520 you know were i fortunate for it to happen to me as well even on a smaller scale at at you know

02:17:59.280 just a fraction of what they'd achieved um but there's no way to really prepare anyone for it

02:18:05.640 There's no way to, I guess in some way it'd be like asking, you know, Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron, you know, what it actually feels like to hit a home run.

02:18:18.460 You know, they can describe the mechanics of it, but they can't really ever put you inside a moment that you have to inhabit to, you know, truly own that experience.

02:18:29.840 And so watching it and then living it was a whole different reality.

02:18:37.720 But then it's nice to have people you can check in with and say, hey, okay, so this happened with the thing and then I saw how you dealt with that.

02:18:44.280 And then any recommendations, any ideas.

02:18:47.420 But even the advice sometimes, it's well-intentioned, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be useful.

02:18:58.700 And I don't mean that dismissively, just that that, you know, giving people advice for things that they have to experience.

02:19:07.180 Yeah, doesn't work. Is that is that is that making sense?

02:19:10.820 Is that yeah, we all learn that as parents. We all learn that as parents.

02:19:14.280 You know, you want to spare your kids all the pain and anguish you experienced by telling them the life lessons you learned.

02:19:20.520 And I mean, I've concluded 15 years in a motherhood.

02:19:23.740 It's not a complete waste of time, but it's really close to a waste of time.

02:19:26.800 They have to make their own mistakes in order to really learn the lessons.

02:19:30.500 Sure.

02:19:32.140 It's pretty close to a waste of time.

02:19:34.000 That's brilliant.

02:19:35.020 Pretty close.

02:19:36.020 I can see, like, I'm sure Martin Sheen was like, Charlie, I'll walk you through exactly how to handle these massive challenges.

02:19:42.420 You know, he's a huge star, big movie star in his day, Apocalypse Now.

02:19:47.260 And he's probably thinking, I can spare you so much grief.

02:19:50.700 And then you learn the hard way.

02:19:52.220 Oh, God, he's going to need to experience grief his own way.

02:19:55.360 And it's going to be really public too, in your case.

02:19:58.780 But isn't it interesting in, in, in the book, there's those, there's those early examples of that.

02:20:04.840 He was the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the voice of advice that I would seek.

02:20:11.180 He, he was the guy that I would go to.

02:20:13.560 And, and, you know, the thing that happened with the Karate Kid, the thing that happened with that early MGM deal.

02:20:20.860 And he, he was the guy I would go to.

02:20:23.140 and then of course you know when it when it came to platoon and he advised against that as well

02:20:29.620 is when i finally told him i said i gotta i gotta just i gotta i gotta roll the dice on this one

02:20:35.320 because you were offered the lead role in karate kid ultimately played by ralph macchio and you

02:20:42.480 turned it down for some film with the word grizzly in it where yeah you and a very young

02:20:49.160 George Clooney and a young Laura Dern would make a movie no one would ever remember whatsoever and

02:20:55.460 your dad had told you you needed to say no to Karate Kid because you had committed to this

02:20:59.420 other film yeah yeah I mean it's not the worst advice in the world if you just break it down

02:21:06.160 just into the into the credo that that he was you know into just the the the noble essence of

02:21:14.140 of what he was trying to get me to, to, to, to pursue, you know, or, or, or, or to recognize,

02:21:20.520 you know? Um, so, but yeah, that was a hard one to watch and, you know, go get eaten by a bear

02:21:28.000 and then watch Ralph, you know, do with that. But again, but then I heard you, you say this

02:21:36.960 in the documentary, you know, no, no offense to Ralph Macchio, but like he was kind of typecast

02:21:41.380 after that. And Ralph did not go on to become some huge Hollywood movie star like you did.

02:21:47.840 But he still had a really respectable and terrific career and still does great work to this day,

02:21:53.400 you know? But if you think of the Karate Kid, it's really difficult to picture anyone except him,

02:21:59.800 even if you've just seen the first one. You know, I don't think I had the skills or the tools or

02:22:04.800 the mindset or anything at that moment in time

02:22:08.360 to pull off or bring to it what he was able to, you know?

02:22:13.000 So I think the film would have been different

02:22:15.300 or would have started with me

02:22:16.740 and that it finally just went, yeah, yeah, you know what? 0.89

02:22:18.680 Let's go with that Italian kid

02:22:20.860 that we had a couple of days ago, you know?

02:22:23.400 So who knows? 1.00

02:22:24.800 Instead of the Spanish kid. 1.00

02:22:27.020 Instead of the Spanish kid. 1.00

02:22:28.860 You come from a long line of Spanish people, 0.99

02:22:31.140 like a whole family, like Ramon,

02:22:32.980 he's in the in the documentary and emilio yeah your dad's name isn't really martin is very spanish

02:22:39.060 do you connect at all with that piece of your lineage um just through stories and just through

02:22:46.220 relatives and just um i don't i don't i don't go on the pilgrimages like my brother ramon does and

02:22:51.600 emilio and dad um i guess i um i guess i lean more into the into the irish side of of of our of our

02:23:00.780 roots you know no offense taken yeah i know exactly where you're going with that i would

02:23:05.680 say your love of beautiful women that that's very spanish so like maybe it's in you and in other

02:23:11.100 ways that are you know more silent um all right so now you you get cast in platoon and this too

02:23:18.000 was a role that was supposed to be amelios this was this was a role that was supposed to go to

02:23:22.140 somebody else that you got because of timing and he took on another project one thing led to another

02:23:27.380 so you wind up getting this role and that that was it right was platoon was the big before and

02:23:32.740 after like now i'm a household name there's there's bp and there's ap you ever get caught

02:23:39.240 the mistake that you just can't get out of okay yeah before platoon after platoon yeah yeah um

02:23:46.560 yeah you know um again uh oh hey there's a nice photo um johnny what a trip yeah that feels like

02:23:55.320 great one that feels like a hundred lifetimes ago you know you were a baby um yeah right um

02:24:02.060 yeah we didn't know what we were what we were what we'd created you know we didn't we we thought the

02:24:07.240 vets would appreciate it we thought you know we thought other filmmakers would think we'd we'd

02:24:12.080 given a you know taken a pretty good pretty good shot at it but um no it we did not expect that the

02:24:18.160 the entire world was going to join in the celebration you know it was it was a pretty

02:24:23.520 exciting time the first real movie about the war in vietnam is platoon

02:24:28.700 then you get the kind of fame that's like you walk into a football stadium and everybody knows you

02:24:37.080 not to mention you could sleep with any woman in there which you know like that's very heady

02:24:42.160 hugely heady and at the same time you're hanging out with all these big stars like i didn't know

02:24:46.220 anything about your long friendship with nick cage hello that's amazing yeah it's and i and i

02:24:53.600 think what's in the doc with with nicholas and myself and and and what's in the book i think

02:24:58.720 there's some really cool really just memorable you know unforgettable stuff between us you know

02:25:05.480 it's not all in there and that's just hey there we are and that's out of respect to him and myself

02:25:11.480 and you know there's there's some stuff that it's just probably better that it just it stays between

02:25:15.960 the people and exists only in that moment in time but i but i think there is enough there to to to

02:25:21.860 just uh give a taste just give a vibe of of the kind of that the energy that that we were both

02:25:28.000 uh you know that that it was weird we we it's like we found each other right when we needed to

02:25:35.280 and and it wasn't a competition thing but but we just i think i talk about something in the book

02:25:42.680 that, you know, something about we're both on the verge of complete fission

02:25:50.380 and I brought the missing neutrons, you know, stuff like that.

02:25:54.860 It's interesting.

02:25:56.000 I just spoke with Nicholas about an hour ago today.

02:25:59.980 And this dude at 9.01 in L.A., knowing it was past midnight, East Coast,

02:26:09.980 downloaded my audio book

02:26:12.620 and listened to it

02:26:14.840 like started it last night

02:26:16.160 and finished it today

02:26:17.660 and wrote to me

02:26:19.780 wrote this beautiful

02:26:21.360 penning of

02:26:24.280 just love and support

02:26:26.180 and he was just such

02:26:28.140 passion and excitement

02:26:29.400 I called him

02:26:31.740 and it was really

02:26:32.820 that was just like an hour ago

02:26:35.440 because when you write about people

02:26:38.500 about the disclosures you made he did not care about the disclosures you made about him no he

02:26:44.020 he loved the stories he loved the writing he loved he just loved that he just loved that he

02:26:47.860 was a part of it it was so cool it was such a just a loving i don't want to call it an endorsement it

02:26:53.660 was it was it was a uh it was just the kind of support that that i i i would have hoped for

02:27:01.380 but when you get it for real you know especially from him uh it was it was pretty special and i

02:27:06.580 nobody doesn't mind that i'm i'm sharing this with the world you know now i have to imagine

02:27:11.700 you've gotten a phone call from literally every gay man who's ever met you and has your number

02:27:17.240 saying i see a window is it still open i mean uh not not exactly no it hasn't it hasn't gone there

02:27:24.980 um because that was a pretty isolated isolated thing and again that's not about shame or that's

02:27:30.540 not about anything like that that's just about you know i'm trying to just be respectful of

02:27:36.300 you know other people's privacies and stuff like that but that is kind of funny yeah i actually

02:27:41.040 did have that thought what's it going to be like now in the streets am i going to be getting the

02:27:45.900 thing uh you know what i'm saying yes you're going to be getting the thing if i do is going to say so

02:27:52.200 you're saying there's a chance that for the listening audience charlie reveals in the book

02:27:56.700 that he, while on drugs, had a couple of interludes crossing over to the other side,

02:28:02.700 is not declaring that he's gay or bi or anything else,

02:28:05.360 but is just being honest about his life, intoxicated and high.

02:28:09.920 And that's why I say some will see a window.

02:28:13.020 That's all right. That's flattering. I mean, what the hell, right?

02:28:15.320 It's one moment in a very long life.

02:28:19.540 And I said something the other day that I guess I just wanted to have

02:28:23.220 just a little bit more in common with Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando and Mick Jagger.

02:28:31.300 Mick Jagger, that's who I was thinking of.

02:28:33.640 That's pretty good company.

02:28:34.840 That's some Hall of Famers right there, you know?

02:28:36.780 But it does have to be a relief.

02:28:38.480 You know, you write about how you paid people blackmail money to keep that secret.

02:28:43.700 You came out a long time ago as HIV positive.

02:28:47.400 You had to pay people to keep that secret.

02:28:49.580 I mean, this is a lot to be laboring under.

02:28:52.140 It's exhausting.

02:28:53.220 It's exhausting. And to always, anytime the phone rings or you see an email from a lawyer or just, or a manager that always talks to that lawyer.

02:29:01.220 And it's just, it just got to the point of this, you know, if, if, if this is prison, the only thing that's missing, it's the bars and the guards, you know.

02:29:11.640 But, but yeah. And, and, and, you know, I was talking to Emilio and, and, and he said, he said, are you, are you, are you cool that like all this stuff is, you know, is, is out there.

02:29:22.840 And like that. And I said, well, you know, I got to be honest, man, it's it feels a lot better, you know, out there than it did in here for so long.

02:29:34.080 And the other thing is, like, don't put something in a book and in a doc that come out, you know, a day apart unless you're going to be willing enough, courageous enough, open enough to discuss those things, you know?

02:29:54.800 Because I did the GMA piece.

02:29:56.820 I did the GMA piece with Strayham, which I think went pretty good, right?

02:30:00.560 Yeah.

02:30:00.740 And then one of the producers came up and said, wow, that was so courageous and you didn't dodge it.

02:30:07.240 And then I said, well, yeah, I already wrote about it and spoke about it and put it in.

02:30:10.680 And she said, oh, no, no, you'd be amazed how many people put stuff in a book.

02:30:16.020 And then when it comes time to promote it or discuss it or whatever, they completely lose their minds.

02:30:23.320 They just want to run and hide.

02:30:25.560 because i guess they never or they didn't see the connection between like okay it goes here

02:30:31.580 and then you know and then does that you're it's still you know it's you're responsible for all of

02:30:38.560 it and so sometimes you get the annoying publicist who says don't ask about this meanwhile the

02:30:45.920 principal is fine asking about it so oftentimes it's a function of that having worked on the

02:30:51.360 today show i know that the pr people can be absolutely awful and not they're telling you

02:30:57.040 not to ask something like like you've just read it in the book and then you you want to tell them

02:31:02.620 but it's here how do i know this i know this because he wrote it like he told me right i

02:31:07.620 didn't pull it out of the ether right so yeah that's interesting yeah some are awful i mean

02:31:13.240 that that was actually one of the questions i had for you

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02:31:50.220 I was on Fox News in 2011 when you had the two and a half men cancellation and the winning and like the super torqued up Charlie with all the testosterone you write about.

02:32:01.360 It was something like 4,000, which is, I don't know what number is supposed to be normal, but it's like two digits, not three and not four.

02:32:08.640 I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen.

02:32:10.780 I'm different. I just have a different constitution.

02:32:12.700 I have a different brain. I have a different heart.

02:32:14.120 I have a different, you know, I get tiger blood, man.

02:32:16.260 You don't worry that you're going to die when you take that many drugs. 1.00

02:32:19.100 Dying's for fools. 0.99

02:32:19.900 So you got fired from two and a half men, and you went on this, like, winning tour. 0.99

02:32:24.460 And what I see in the documentary really jumped out at me, which was, this is my opinion, 0.54

02:32:30.000 totally douchebag managers who exploited you.

02:32:32.500 The troubled actor is taking his bizarre behavior out on the road for Charlie Sheen live. 0.98

02:32:38.640 My violent torpedo of truth.

02:32:40.860 I think what your name is synonymous, and I don't mean this in a negative way, is Trouble.

02:32:44.620 And I think, like, Torpedoes of Truth is so brilliant because it's like, it just sounds exciting.

02:32:49.680 Who are like, get out there, go out on the stage, make money.

02:32:52.740 They want to see you.

02:32:53.580 Meanwhile, you are in crisis.

02:32:54.740 So it's kind of irritating as a fan and a viewer to see that happen.

02:33:00.460 How do you see the role of those around you, the professional people?

02:33:05.160 In the middle of that?

02:33:07.640 Yeah.

02:33:08.640 chaos uh yeah um i was

02:33:13.880 it's kind of a double-edged sword because i was really hard to control i i had found some

02:33:22.540 different level of of i don't know what there was just some other energy or some other possession

02:33:28.420 or just some just thing that that i just needed to to stay attached to and i can't even really

02:33:35.720 describe it it was i don't want to say it was out of body because then you're kind of like not owning

02:33:40.900 it um i i knew what was going on i just didn't want it to stop and that's the part i can't really

02:33:47.680 explain when i look back on that stuff it's like dude like okay maybe after that interview you

02:33:52.820 issue a statement or you just like go just disappear somewhere for a month or just but

02:33:59.240 to keep that thing going was just like that's the part um just the energy that required i don't have

02:34:04.760 that kind of stamina anymore um but as far as the people that um that i guess you could say

02:34:10.280 were more complicit than not um it does take two to tango um and i say in the book that in this

02:34:18.660 case it felt like um it felt more like 2000 but um but i also specifically write a line about um

02:34:25.740 uh in the years since i've i've i've combed through um the mental health manual and i still

02:34:33.120 can't find um vile exploitation as a treatment protocol so that is that is a quote from the

02:34:41.960 book so yeah i am gonna i'm gonna point some of that stuff out and then when i talk about

02:34:46.500 mark berg and mark and i are are great friends these days but i but i do say mark was the

02:34:52.400 gatekeeper um and and i and i wish he would have had a um a better key or a stronger lock um

02:35:01.980 or something that, or a lock that looked more like a comfy chair and a willing ear.

02:35:13.420 You know, it's like I just think there could have been a moment in the middle of all that

02:35:17.720 when someone could have just said, all right, we're going to, you know,

02:35:20.680 we're putting the chairs on the table, putting the lights on, the party's over,

02:35:26.180 this guy's coming with us.

02:35:27.340 and just and and it it could have it it could have been

02:35:32.920 could have been interrupted you know um but then suddenly there's this idea for a tour

02:35:40.080 you know and i and i'm like what would that even what does that mean i'm not a did i did i start a

02:35:45.740 band i can't remember forming is there some part of me like what are we because touring for me is

02:35:51.800 could only be a musician or like a really popular comedian right and there was nothing funny about

02:35:57.700 my act at that point right but um but yeah and then live nation gets involved and i go visit

02:36:04.920 them and suddenly you know i'm holding a machete to a cheering crowd and they're booking dates you

02:36:10.020 know which is why in the book the only thing that i describe on that tour is that is that i don't

02:36:18.760 want to give it away um but is that incident that takes place uh in the bathroom you know

02:36:24.120 and i think just symbolically that um that's that's really how i felt about about that that 0.54

02:36:31.560 that whole that whole shit storm you know i watched it i just thought i watched it when it 0.97

02:36:37.640 happened as a newswoman and i was horrified at how you were being exploited it was obvious 0.99

02:36:45.020 you were in crisis. I felt the same about Kanye. I did not interview Kanye when he was going on

02:36:50.940 his recent media tour because I could see the guy was in the middle of what appeared to be a

02:36:55.300 bipolar episode. I did not pile on when that mayor up in Canada was going through it. I just don't

02:37:00.960 like it when news people, I think news people too have a responsibility not to have you on when

02:37:06.320 you're in that state and pretend that you're okay or that this is an okay interview to be doing

02:37:12.600 because this is a compromised person who needs help

02:37:14.780 not to be exploited for clicks. 0.97

02:37:17.540 It's very fucking annoying as a news person to watch. 0.97

02:37:21.560 Yeah, no, and that's great to hear. 0.98

02:37:25.360 At least there's one of you that cares.

02:37:29.460 No, there's others, I'm sure.

02:37:31.160 But even the Andrea Canyon of it all, right?

02:37:35.440 She's terrific, and I'm a fan, and she does great work.

02:37:39.340 She was with ABC at the time,

02:37:40.880 and i put this responsibility on abc yeah but i was working out in a gym and i saw her on a on a

02:37:46.840 monitor like up in the corner of the room with the sound off and i knew this interview was coming and

02:37:52.720 i didn't know what the hell it was going to turn into but i was i was i was with somebody and i 0.98

02:37:58.060 said hey what about her she looks pretty smart she looks like she knows what she's doing maybe 0.83

02:38:03.280 she'll do the interview i mean literally it was like that no research nothing didn't know her

02:38:07.900 backstory so she gets just yanked into this thing you know and and and then um i i yeah she she was 0.93

02:38:18.320 like just front and center for that thing you know she was like putting on the seat belt to do that

02:38:23.880 interview so exactly yeah i want to talk about sobriety because i think it's sure kind of

02:38:29.580 interesting how it happened for you but before i get to that the hero in this story after you

02:38:36.100 for rescuing yourself from your addictions or at least from the active addiction is your dad

02:38:43.640 and i just like to me i i have such empathy for him because charlie i will tell you that

02:38:51.420 i lost my sister at age 58 two years ago a couple years ago and thank you and she she was an addict

02:38:59.900 and she had a lifetime of similar problems with her it started as a prescription pill that she

02:39:05.440 was given and like when i i saw the number of times your dad intervened and tried so hard

02:39:11.480 sometimes he did the right things sometimes it was questionable what he did but what i saw was

02:39:16.440 this extremely loving father who really wanted you to stop doing drugs who desperately wanted

02:39:22.860 you to get better and didn't totally know how to stop it and then i saw he didn't participate in

02:39:28.880 the documentary and neither did emilio and i know you say it's because they watched the rough and

02:39:33.140 they said you you got it all covered but i did wonder is that the full story or do you think

02:39:40.120 there's like a lingering resentment at all there because i i certainly think in my family having an

02:39:46.420 addict is like having a nuclear bomb go off in your nuclear family and there can be lingering

02:39:51.100 resentments interesting yeah no i i i think that's all face value i think that's all face value with

02:39:58.060 because i was in the room with them watching both of their reactions to the rough cut and they

02:40:05.100 they they couldn't have been more excited or passionate about it or celebrating it more and

02:40:10.920 and dad was just like i'm i'm in this i'm already in this start to finish and amelia was like geez

02:40:17.380 i i don't know what i could possibly contribute beyond what charlie's already doing and i just i

02:40:24.020 I genuinely think like they didn't want to get in the way or try to tell my stories through their POV, even though that's sometimes, you know, a that's part of how documentaries get to different parts of stories.

02:40:41.940 And that's a that's a device that they do lean into.

02:40:46.200 But no, I because I think, you know, we started this about two years ago.

02:40:52.260 So I was, at that point, clean almost six years.

02:40:57.240 And so they knew that I wasn't, you know, I was committed to this thing.

02:41:04.080 And you guys are good.

02:41:05.440 So, like, you feel legitimately like you've made amends with them and you're in a good place.

02:41:10.100 Oh, absolutely.

02:41:10.880 Yeah.

02:41:11.560 No, Emilio and I have been texting all day.

02:41:13.400 He'll read something about the doc or the blog and he'll send it to me.

02:41:16.840 And we just had a terrific piece come out.

02:41:19.500 he interviewed me for interview magazine and so and then they just print the transcript of our

02:41:27.260 of our zoom call even though we live a block from each other we did it on zoom you know and

02:41:33.300 and it dropped today and some of it is is hysterical and anybody that's like and i'm not

02:41:39.420 saying but like anybody that might be questioning that we're on the outs or there's a thing or

02:41:44.160 whatever it's you read this piece and you can see like two guys that are there still a couple

02:41:50.640 12 year olds like talking about jaws you know um and it's it's it's a wonderful piece part of what's

02:41:58.200 so great about the movie the documentary aka charlie sheen is um the super eight film that

02:42:04.960 you guys took of each other when you were kids and the way you talk about la is interesting too

02:42:09.460 it makes it sound like a city in which you might actually raise a family back in the day in the

02:42:13.180 70s and late 60s it used to be yeah yeah it used to be it's like more rural you're describing and

02:42:19.400 and that's why your your dad and your mom chose to raise their family there but you guys with the

02:42:24.160 super eight videos like pretend acting like trying to be actors like your dad and you were getting

02:42:29.980 good at like the death scenes and the shooting shooting up shooting up scenes it was like

02:42:34.100 pretty well done thank you thank you um we were we were we were front row watching him do it you

02:42:41.120 know um in in his roles on his sets uh sometimes all over the world um there'd even be days and

02:42:48.560 this isn't in the doc um where i'd be with chris pan and i'd be messing around with a cap gun or

02:42:53.700 starter pistol or something and dad would be watching and he'd be like you know doing a light

02:42:58.140 workout just over in the other part of the yard or getting some sun or whatever and there was one

02:43:04.360 day when he's when he said hey guys guys hold on a second hold on a second he says all right

02:43:09.460 if you guys are going to do it let me let me show you how it's going to look better

02:43:13.820 and and i got this this little cap gun or starter pistol with you know blanks and he says all right

02:43:20.660 charlie whenever you want i'm going to be folding i'm going to be folding this towel you shoot me 0.61

02:43:25.520 and i'll show you how a guy would respond you know more realistically getting shot

02:43:31.260 he's gonna be pissed that i shared this but it's really a cool a cool memory memory in a moment

02:43:37.800 It's not in the doc.

02:43:38.580 It's not in the book, but it's right here.

02:43:40.820 And I turned on him and I fired a shot and he took it.

02:43:44.780 And it wasn't like this super crazy five minute dramatic death. 0.94

02:43:48.140 He just buckled and then right on his back.

02:43:51.920 And Chris and I were just like, oh, my gosh.

02:43:54.900 OK, so now we had a template to work from.

02:43:57.960 Now we had like a real pro who'd been shot on film like a thousand times showing us like this is this is going to up your game.

02:44:07.040 A lot of parents will sit down with their kids and help them with their homework.

02:44:10.540 My dad was showing us, like, how to take a bullet.

02:44:13.100 How to get shot. 0.93

02:44:13.660 And a fake one. 0.57

02:44:14.460 It's quite helpful.

02:44:15.420 It's pretty wild.

02:44:16.340 Here's a tough one for you.

02:44:17.840 Who is the better actor?

02:44:21.140 Charlie Sheen, Martin Sheen, or Emilio Estevez?

02:44:24.540 wow uh gosh i think dad's the best dramatic actor of the three of us i think i may have a

02:44:38.940 slight edge in the comedy department right um and i think emilio is more comfortable

02:44:48.260 than pop and myself um with romantic stuff i can see that yeah but i didn't answer your question

02:44:58.440 did i okay we didn't go better or best you know like who's gonna get the lifetime achievement

02:45:05.520 award i uh hopefully pop because you know what i'm saying i mean he's he yeah but um i think

02:45:15.020 there's things that he he can do that emilio and i can't stuff emilio can do that pop and i can't

02:45:21.120 and then finish that triad with the other two that can't yep you know the scene of course in

02:45:27.760 wall street with you and your dad i told you not to get into that racket in the first place you

02:45:32.920 could have been a doctor or a lawyer you write about you write as follows uh there are a few

02:45:39.140 moments with dad in that film that had flashes of promise from my end he was his usual fabulous

02:45:45.880 self and i was doing whatever i could to not vanish on screen next to him i mean how special

02:45:53.180 was it that you had that feeling about him and working with him and in part that was portrayed

02:46:00.560 in the relationship you know between bud fox and his dad in the movie itself right right right no

02:46:07.200 it was it was it was it was an incredible experience um i you know little little pieces

02:46:13.000 of regret throughout that um that i could have been more present that i could have been

02:46:18.900 just more more dialed in more professional i think what's what's i think covered nicely in

02:46:24.920 the book is that you know platoon is still burning down the box office when when we start wall street

02:46:31.140 And so there was a lot of distraction. I wanted the party to keep going. And I think that I mentioned something about just wanting to be playfully drunk on a fancy boat in tropical waters with beautiful women, not working again, stuff like that.

02:46:54.100 So there was a lot of distractions doing that.

02:46:59.880 So some of the stuff with dad, and he was well aware of it.

02:47:04.520 And so he was, I think, just hoping for a more focused me.

02:47:10.240 And that's why I talk about doing my best to not vanish on screen next to him, talent-wise, but also just, you know, where my head was at, you know.

02:47:22.260 and and speaking of wall street

02:47:25.480 is it time it's time okay you know what um i think we should uh let's play sot 51

02:47:34.700 this is a kid calls me 59 days in a row wants to be a player

02:47:39.640 ought to be a picture of you in the dictionary on her persistence key

02:47:43.260 i just want to let you know mr gecko that i've read all about you at nyu business and i think

02:47:48.120 you're an incredible genius i've always dreamed of one thing and that's to do business with a man

02:47:53.340 like you what firm are you with pal jackson steinham they're going places good junk bond

02:47:59.200 department you the financing on that jansen investment yeah yeah we're working on some

02:48:04.820 other interesting stuff cosmetic company by any chance what are you 12th man the deal team last

02:48:11.220 to know i can't tell you that mr gecko great stuff is it true you don't look back fondly on

02:48:17.380 that film that you've only watched it twice i i liked that scene yeah what's not to like

02:48:24.900 i mean there there's there's some there's just there's a lot going on there there's some charm

02:48:30.000 there's some heart there's some you know um yeah you know what maybe it's time i i i revisit this

02:48:36.900 thing you should because i've seen it at least 20 times and it's seriously it's such a special film

02:48:43.940 i love the character arc of bud fox and i think it totally captures what happens

02:48:48.600 to young guys on wall street to this day my husband actually wrote a book called

02:48:53.280 ghosts of manhattan and it's all about this exact issue and i thought you just completely

02:48:58.720 portrayed it you nailed it and the relationship that you have with your dad in the film is just

02:49:03.140 the chef's kiss on top but can we both agree thank you that daryl hannah was miscast

02:49:08.960 she was and and she knew it and she knew it so really i mean she could feel it she could feel

02:49:17.460 it um and i think uh maybe some of the way that that um she wasn't as embraced as she could have

02:49:23.060 been by oliver and in just in certain moments you know and i and i do touch on some of that in the

02:49:27.180 book um oliver's the only guy in the book that i um i don't want to say i go after him but i but i

02:49:33.620 do talk about things because i was describing these other experiences and these other films

02:49:38.400 And I'm like, OK, you know, all this stuff can't just be like this lovey-dovey, flowery actor, director, you know, relationship stuff.

02:49:47.020 There's, you know, when it when it when it got a little grumbling, a little tense, I thought that was that was worth sharing.

02:49:53.540 And, you know, it's not about, you know, taking him to task.

02:50:00.920 It's just about, like, pointing out things about him that he's freaking pointed out about other people for years.

02:50:11.340 You know, he's never been shy talking about certain actors and certain things and experiences.

02:50:16.280 And so and also his slings and arrows.

02:50:19.360 Yes, he can. And he and I haven't worked together since Wall Street.

02:50:22.940 I mean, that shitty little cameo in the ill-advised sequel to Wall Street, right?

02:50:29.740 Yeah.

02:50:30.520 And so, but that doesn't count.

02:50:32.320 So it's not like Oliver's been banging down my door since 1987, right?

02:50:36.340 So maybe this approach gets his attention.

02:50:40.900 Maybe this will get him to reach out.

02:50:41.980 This he'll respect.

02:50:44.280 All right, now your people are telling us we got to wrap, so I want to close with this.

02:50:48.080 I know.

02:50:48.700 I thought we were just getting warm.

02:50:49.980 The PR people are annoying, I'm telling you.

02:50:52.420 You'll give me your number later, and I'll go directly to you next time.

02:50:55.320 They'll love that.

02:50:57.120 Awesome.

02:50:58.080 This is where I want to end it, and I hope this isn't too dark for you.

02:51:00.680 But you pulled yourself with some friendships and support out of decades of addiction.

02:51:09.940 And this time it seems to really be sticking.

02:51:12.680 You're eight years sober, which is amazing.

02:51:15.420 Thank you.

02:51:15.980 Thank you.

02:51:16.460 And here's what I want to ask you.

02:51:19.560 So I know you knew Matthew Perry.

02:51:20.900 You write in the book, we were both veterans of the unspeakable.

02:51:25.120 Really well said.

02:51:26.920 Thank you.

02:51:27.960 We did a long tribute to Matthew Perry, who was so talented after he died.

02:51:32.860 And it was obvious that his addiction had not been totally licked.

02:51:37.020 And if you don't ultimately lick it and stay off of the drugs and stay clean, it ends the same for virtually everyone.

02:51:45.340 So please don't do that to us.

02:51:48.500 please know how important you are in our culture and as a figure who kids look up to and people

02:51:56.880 admire and want to continue applauding and cheering for for decades to come i really hope you know

02:52:03.420 we're all rooting for you and just want nothing but good things for you that's amazing that that

02:52:08.800 is that there's such love and compassion in that and and and that is a uh that that that that is a

02:52:16.180 request um that i wholeheartedly um um have every intention of of honoring um because it's it's it's

02:52:25.860 like you were saying you know um drugs are are undefeated they're undefeated it's like 20 million

02:52:34.420 to zero yeah you know um and i i just i even writing the book watching the doc it's i mean

02:52:41.900 i'm the guy that lived it and survived it and i and i still don't completely know how i i think

02:52:48.620 the why part will be revealed over time and and you know and and that's fine that's not that's not

02:52:54.160 on that's that's not up to me but um but yeah i to to to get through that you know several times

02:53:02.940 and then continue to thumb your nose at the universe i think you at that point you're you're

02:53:09.640 you're asking for it you know um and and it's interesting because you do talk about um that

02:53:15.820 matthew you know was still struggling a little bit when he had to go on the tour and promote the

02:53:21.260 book and do all that stuff but i could see it i know a lot of other people could too and i could

02:53:25.600 also hear it when i listened to the book i could hear just because um for a guy that just had such

02:53:31.700 precision with his diction and his delivery and his timing and just everything um and it just

02:53:38.140 it was just a just left of center and you just felt like and i read his book i read it in a day

02:53:45.560 because i've just got so deep into it and nothing else mattered i wasn't stopping until i finished

02:53:51.040 and and i i i so wanted to reach out to him and i didn't and he he died a month later

02:53:58.620 and it was just you know um so yeah i i don't want to i don't want to do that to my to my kids i don't

02:54:06.200 want to do that to my, the rest of my family. Um, and yeah, it, um, if you, if you get a second,

02:54:13.820 third, fourth, fifth chance, you know, wrap your arms around it and just, you know, just consider

02:54:21.480 it a fricking lotto win every day. Well, maybe there's a good, a better chance this time,

02:54:28.300 because I'll tell you, um, I I'm a little younger than you are, but not by that much. And I've

02:54:33.540 referred to this as my fuck it fifties. So you really don't, you don't care what people think 0.99

02:54:38.720 of you. You really change in your fifties for the better. It's one delightful thing about getting

02:54:42.740 older. And I think more so when you're in your sixties. So I feel like you've got all that

02:54:47.980 ahead of you. You've got all this goodness here. You've hopefully will meet somebody and fall in

02:54:53.180 love, which is not a false God. You've already got enough money. So you don't have to chase the

02:54:57.400 dollar, which is another false God. You've already proven that you can do all this shit to your body 1.00

02:55:03.040 and still stay standing, which check. 1.00

02:55:05.520 Okay, we've got that.

02:55:07.260 Maybe we won't continue the parties with Nick Cage.

02:55:09.520 That could be a thing of the past.

02:55:10.640 That's fine.

02:55:11.080 I think that that might be a healthy choice.

02:55:12.860 I leave it up to you.

02:55:14.440 But whatever you choose, I really hope it fulfills you like from the inside 0.98

02:55:18.780 and that you have like a, maybe not a fucking 50s, 0.57

02:55:22.820 but like a spectacular 60s and beyond because we all are rooting for you. 0.97

02:55:29.140 Oh, thank you.

02:55:30.080 Thank you.

02:55:30.500 That is, that is, that just, that's the nicest thing ever.

02:55:32.900 That is so sweet and coming from you.

02:55:35.300 That means the world.

02:55:36.900 Thank you.

02:55:37.660 All right.

02:55:38.240 Well, I will talk to you on the next episode of The Megyn Kelly Show,

02:55:41.240 where I'll be thinking of you as I say the word SOT40.

02:55:46.340 That's amazing.

02:55:47.580 This has been a pleasure.

02:55:50.040 All the best, Charlie.

02:55:51.600 Or SOT60.

02:55:54.000 That's right.

02:55:54.920 SOT60 in honor of Charlie Sheen.

02:55:58.420 All the best.

02:55:58.760 Right on.

02:55:59.100 See you soon.

02:55:59.720 Thank you so much.

02:56:00.520 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

02:56:03.720 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 07, 2026

Shawn Ryan and Charlie Sheen - Megyn Kelly's ＂Double Feature＂ of Fascinating Interviews

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