The Megyn Kelly Show - Shock New Details About Guthrie Kidnapping, and Don Lemon's Absurd Kimmel Appearance, with Rich Lowry, Charles C.W. Cooke, Jim Fitzgerald, and Randy Sutton ｜ Ep. 1244

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00:00:45.700 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:47.540 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:57.440 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:58.900 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:00.700 It is a race against the clock in the search for Nancy Guthrie, mother of Today Show host Savannah Guthrie.

00:01:06.760 This case is bizarre and disturbing.

00:01:10.600 Law enforcement sources telling the Los Angeles Times that blood was found inside of her Arizona home

00:01:16.400 alongside signs of forced entry, prompting detectives to investigate what they now describe as a, quote,

00:01:22.960 possible kidnapping or abduction.

00:01:26.260 Fox News reporting this morning that their sources say, quote,

00:01:29.240 blood drops were also found leading from the entryway outside down the house's pathway toward the driveway.

00:01:38.800 So both inside the house and a trail leading across the entryway and into the driveway.

00:01:47.760 During an interview with News Nation this morning, Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos would not confirm the reports of blood.

00:01:54.660 But again, those earlier publications are citing law enforcement and said that the DNA results that they have tested so far

00:02:02.680 have come back only belonging to Nancy.

00:02:06.360 We're not confirming whether there was blood in the home or any of that.

00:02:10.400 What we're saying is we do have evidence that we submitted to DNA labs actually through other sources that we use.

00:02:20.880 And they have confirmed that the DNA that we found was, in fact, belonged to Nancy, Savannah's mom,

00:02:32.680 which we were hopeful that it wouldn't, that it would give us a different profile than just hers.

00:02:39.040 But that's where we're at with the DNA.

00:02:41.300 We have other items that we submit for DNA research and see what that comes up.

00:02:46.820 But that was the first submittal we got back.

00:02:50.560 And we'll continue to wait for lab results, see if we find something else.

00:02:57.080 So if those reports are real and accurate, Nancy Guthrie was bleeding.

00:03:04.700 She was hurt somehow inside the house.

00:03:06.720 She was bleeding as she was taken outside of the house.

00:03:09.820 And so far, no DNA belonging to somebody else.

00:03:14.700 That doesn't mean no one else was there.

00:03:16.780 It just means no one else left DNA, at least not that they've found so far there.

00:03:20.980 Although, you know, with touch DNA being what it is in today's day and age, let's just wait and see on that.

00:03:26.520 I'm sure they did a comprehensive testing of all the surfaces and certainly anything that was near the blood trail to see whether they could get touch DNA.

00:03:36.780 And was this person, if they actually took her, so careful, Brian Kohlberger-like, that every inch of their person was covered?

00:03:44.620 The odds are against it.

00:03:45.840 But the sheriff confirmed that they are still waiting on the results of additional items that have been tested.

00:03:51.720 Time remains crucial in this case, with the sheriff warning that if Nancy does not get certain medication within 24 hours, it could be fatal.

00:03:59.480 I mean, he said that yesterday.

00:04:01.240 She was taken Saturday night, we believe, overnight Saturday into Sunday.

00:04:06.040 And now here we are Tuesday.

00:04:08.840 He issued a direct plea to whomever may be holding her.

00:04:12.100 What would you say to someone who, if they're holding Nancy Guthrie right now, what's your message to them?

00:04:17.520 Just call us.

00:04:18.340 Let her go. 0.99

00:04:18.920 Just call us.

00:04:19.700 We, family would tell you.

00:04:21.980 There's no questions asked here.

00:04:23.440 Look, if she's alive right now, her meds are vital.

00:04:32.820 I can't stress that enough.

00:04:34.720 You know, it's been better than 24 hours.

00:04:37.120 And the family tells us if she doesn't have those meds, it can become fatal.

00:04:44.540 Today's show host Savannah Guthrie posted on Instagram last night asking for prayers for her mother's safe return, writing, quote,

00:04:51.340 We are expecting a press conference from local authorities to take place at 1.30 p.m. Eastern today.

00:05:10.820 And just of note, before I bring in my panel, you heard the sheriff starting to sound a bit more dire now in the way he's talking about this.

00:05:19.060 That was my impression, too.

00:05:20.120 He did a lengthy interview with Ashley Banfield on her podcast yesterday, Drop Dead Serious.

00:05:26.200 And he actually used the word dead.

00:05:30.220 He didn't say she's dead, but he used it in a way that was kind of jarring and gave you a bit of a window, perhaps, into what his worries are, what he's thinking, maybe even what his opinion is.

00:05:41.800 I don't know.

00:05:42.320 Here's top three.

00:05:43.760 We also know we have to be careful.

00:05:45.680 I mean, we hope that, you know, it's happened before.

00:05:48.460 Or the police is, the sheriff is, oh, this person's dead and this, that, and that.

00:05:54.640 And then I see, you know, some hospital calls and says, hey, I think I've got this lady in my hospital room. 1.00

00:05:59.780 So, you know, we're never going to give up hope.

00:06:02.940 That's why you guys are so critical to us.

00:06:05.500 Somebody out there sees something, says maybe they'll see her.

00:06:08.700 We've gotten calls like that.

00:06:10.020 Hey, I think I saw her in Flagstaff.

00:06:12.680 Hey, I think I saw her here.

00:06:14.360 And so we'll chase those leads down.

00:06:17.400 Now, that was pretty interesting where he's basically saying he doesn't want to say anything about her being dead until he knows for sure.

00:06:25.040 But to me, that sounded an awful lot like somebody who thinks the outcome right now is not good.

00:06:30.060 It's unconfirmed.

00:06:31.020 Obviously, he doesn't know, but he's seen the inside of the house in a way that none of us has.

00:06:36.020 And he knows a lot more than he's saying.

00:06:38.360 In fact, he's been, you know, clearly somebody and likely him because he's been the spokesperson for the office, told NBC about that blood and the L.A. Times and Fox News has it, too, about the blood droplets.

00:06:51.860 But then sort of tried to walk it back, saying, if I were asked that by NBC now, I wouldn't confirm it.

00:06:56.800 Well, OK, he seems like a very nice guy, but his messaging has been a little inconsistent from place to place.

00:07:02.860 It seems clear that there was blood inside the house, that it was hers and that it led a trail right outside of the house, which is more than likely how they determined this is a crime scene.

00:07:16.380 And this was not somebody who walked off of her own volition.

00:07:19.380 Again, we're going to be having a presser in about an hour and a half, and we will bring you all the latest news from that as it unfolds.

00:07:25.840 Joining me now in the meantime, James Fitzgerald, former FBI supervisory special agent and criminal profiler and host of the Code Red podcast, and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton.

00:07:38.160 He's also founder of The Wounded Blue.

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00:08:46.560 Jim, Randy, welcome to you both.

00:08:49.220 What do you make of what we've heard so far?

00:08:52.660 Randy, I'll start with you.

00:08:54.020 Your thoughts.

00:08:54.500 So, I watched the presser yesterday.

00:08:57.900 I've been following this case since it became public.

00:09:02.060 And you're right in your characterization of the way the sheriff has communicated the issues of this case.

00:09:09.200 There are a little disjointed.

00:09:11.200 But clearly, they are taking this really, really seriously.

00:09:17.060 They did call in the homicide section.

00:09:18.920 That was very telling in and of itself.

00:09:21.560 They did say that there was blood evidence and that they were treating it like a crime scene.

00:09:28.260 They had the search and rescue team out there.

00:09:31.360 They were doing physical search of the area with people on foot, using their drones, using their fixed-wing aircraft, their helicopters.

00:09:41.800 They did mention that they were using their forward-looking infrared, which would have a heat signature should they find someone walking or someone laying down somewhere in the area.

00:09:53.020 And all of that proved negative.

00:09:54.920 That would be an indication that Miss Guthrie was taken somewhere and is now not around that area because they did a pretty thorough search.

00:10:04.880 This is very, very troubling.

00:10:07.100 Remember, stranger abductions are very, very rare.

00:10:10.380 So there's going to be a—this is a massive investigation, and there's going to be a lot at play here.

00:10:17.400 The Daily Mail, just as we came to air, actually citing Fox News for this, reporting that Miss Guthrie's pacemaker stopped sinking with her Apple Watch in the early hours of Sunday morning around 2 a.m.

00:10:31.260 going from Saturday into Sunday, what they said was investigators told the outlet that Nancy's Apple Watch was left inside of her home.

00:10:41.500 They write, which likely means the device stopped sinking.

00:10:45.280 The device is.

00:10:46.020 Her pacemaker and the Apple Watch stopped sinking when the pacemaker was out of range from the watch.

00:10:51.540 So it doesn't mean she died.

00:10:53.900 It means she, with her pacemaker, was taken too far away from the Apple Watch for it to sink any longer.

00:11:00.160 And that happened around 2 a.m., which would be a very good investigative piece of information, Jim.

00:11:06.760 Yeah, I've worked a few cases even in retirement of homicides where these Apple Watches or similar watches, if they're found on the victim or certainly through the technology, through the cloud, whatever,

00:11:17.880 they can really help determine not only movement and locations but also time of death.

00:11:23.600 I suppose it makes forensic pathologist jobs a little bit easier in that way in terms of determining that.

00:11:30.360 But to go back to the sheriff, many times in the FBI, when we were working these real-time cases, we would be, as a profiler, we would be consulting with the spokespersons for different departments.

00:11:42.380 And we would not tell them what to say, of course, but we would certainly guide them and do certain language usages.

00:11:49.540 And especially as a linguist, I determine even better along the years how to do this.

00:11:54.200 And you don't want to be inflammatory.

00:11:55.620 You don't want to be overly accusatory.

00:11:58.120 You want to almost make it sound like, look, maybe someone made a mistake here, one or more people, and just, you know, drop the person off, leave them go.

00:12:05.740 Sometimes as kids, as you would know, Megan, or teenagers, it's not too often we get 84-year-old people like this.

00:12:12.040 The blood is not a good sign either, whether it was arterial bleeding, meaning it's much more serious or not.

00:12:16.880 So far, we just have drops.

00:12:18.820 So she's obviously in some level of danger, but hopefully the people who are, in fact, have her in custody, taking care of her, know this and are keeping her alive.

00:12:29.920 And I'll add to you, too, Megan, that whoever has done this are listening to us.

00:12:36.080 I don't mean us personally at this very moment, but they are following the media on this.

00:12:40.280 If you have even a modicum of sophistication to you when committing these types of crimes, you're going to be following the media to find out what they know and get everything possible to help protect yourself and carry out the crime.

00:12:53.940 And let's hope that's all they want to do is carry out the crime, get some money, and perhaps move on from there and not harm her.

00:13:00.740 Randy, what do you make of the fact that yesterday the sheriff started off with a presser in the morning where he offered some detail, and then as the day went on, seemed to be amping up his messaging around this, using the word kidnapping, using the word taken, abducted.

00:13:20.080 And obviously, I mean, I think it was him who leaked the stuff about the blood to the L.A. Times and possibly Fox, because he's been the main spokesperson.

00:13:29.700 I'm just assuming. I could be wrong. But in any event, we saw more and more of him.

00:13:34.220 I mean, I saw him everywhere. He was on CBS. He was on ABC. He was on NBC. He was on Fox. He was with Ashley Banfield.

00:13:39.960 He was with some other podcasts. Like, clearly, he made the decision to try to get out anywhere and everywhere that asked for him.

00:13:46.200 Yeah. And the terms that he used did escalate from he was he was catching his terms a little bit more diplomatically during his press conference.

00:13:58.940 But as the day went on, there were more and more details that leaked out.

00:14:05.260 So why? Why?

00:14:06.820 To tell you the truth, I don't know why. I can't even begin to guess other than in watching his his press and his interviews.

00:14:21.060 He's not he's not a very polished individual when it comes down to communicating what he should be communicating to the public.

00:14:30.620 Reference this reference this crime.

00:14:34.880 I'm hesitant to be too critical of him, but I've seen much more professional, you know, individuals be giving out information when it comes down to a serious issue like this.

00:14:48.060 I mean, I would imagine if what they really need is press coverage, which clearly they've made a decision they need press coverage.

00:14:57.920 It won't be long now before we hear from Savannah, because if there's one person involved in this case who can get the media to run a soundbite on every single television station there is and to be quoted in all the newspapers, it's Savannah Guthrie.

00:15:13.420 But what a terrible position for her to have to be in to, you know, have to come out in front of the cameras and make a comment right now when she doesn't know what's happened to her mother. 1.00

00:15:22.900 I my heart goes out to her.

00:15:26.260 Jim, how do you even begin to to come up with a profile of who would potentially steal an 84 year old woman?

00:15:37.220 Well, we always start with victimology.

00:15:39.860 What do we know about our victim?

00:15:41.700 This is a low risk victim, probably as low as you can get in terms of her everyday activities, her behavior, and even the environment in which she lives, where she travels.

00:15:51.140 And of course, her physical condition, which is not the best in terms of mobility, etc.

00:15:57.240 So we want to find out everything about her in that regard.

00:16:00.180 And of course, expanding that, it's everyone she knows, of course, family, friends, interview, all of them go through emails, text messaging, such as that.

00:16:09.280 But then to then really hone in on who have been guests in her house in the last month plus, obviously, family and friends will know about those.

00:16:19.220 What kind of repairman?

00:16:20.340 What kind of medical people?

00:16:21.840 What kind of delivery people?

00:16:23.700 Salesmen just randomly knocking on doors.

00:16:25.880 And even those people, maybe plumbers or HVAC guys, they may be legitimate and have nothing to do with this, but they have friends and those friends talk to friends.

00:16:37.860 So that sort of all has to be worked out exponentially to find out everyone who's been in or near that house.

00:16:43.660 These people didn't wake up at noon on Saturday and say, let's go out and kidnap Mrs. Guthrie. 0.99

00:16:49.100 I'm saying these people, even though she's an older woman, you'd probably want someone to back you up, drive the van, the car, SUV, whatever, and then have someone else go in. 1.00

00:16:58.320 They could have, was it forced entry?

00:16:59.980 It seems like it was breaking a window or something or a little woman, you know, a younger woman knocking on the door.

00:17:05.100 Oh, my car broke down and they tricked her into opening the door.

00:17:08.280 Another part of victimology.

00:17:09.820 What kind of a risk averse person is she? 1.00

00:17:14.280 Would she open the door for a stranger?

00:17:16.040 These are things her family and friends can tell.

00:17:17.920 So that's what we first want to do to find out everything about her, all her goings on for the last month or so, emails, social media, all those type things.

00:17:28.240 Who's she been in contact with?

00:17:29.740 And all those people have to be interviewed and friends of those people and to see possibly a linkage to this.

00:17:36.100 I won't say these are criminal masterminds who undertook this, but they at least got away with this so far.

00:17:41.200 And they did some practice, some surveillance.

00:17:43.620 And we got to look at technology for not just that weekend, but going back a week before.

00:17:48.060 No doubt they cased her house.

00:17:49.720 They surveilled it to make sure they knew what neighbors were doing, who's on the streets.

00:17:53.680 And and that technology may give some clues to that and to who did this also.

00:17:58.300 And just to let the audience know, the sheriff had told one outlet that she was snatched from her bed in the middle of the night.

00:18:06.520 And then he took that back to saying he didn't mean to say that.

00:18:10.100 So, like, I feel for the sheriff.

00:18:11.940 You know, this is he's been thrust into the national spotlight in a way he didn't anticipate.

00:18:15.040 But you do have to give him like a day or two to find out whether he's going to stick with the message that he delivered at the presser or in these interviews.

00:18:24.220 But again, he's just trying to get the word out and get attention drawn to this.

00:18:27.320 So we don't right now know whether she was snatched from her bed or whether it was the scenario like you just outlined, Jim,

00:18:32.520 where maybe they rang the doorbell and she came down and they grabbed her. 0.97

00:18:36.220 I mean, what we do know, Randy, is that the sheriff said she cannot walk more than 50 yards herself.

00:18:42.100 Like she's infirm physically, but not mentally at all.

00:18:46.060 And that would mean that somebody would have to either take her or, quote, help her get out of the house and get into a car. 0.86

00:18:58.760 Potentially she saw we saw her with a cane on the set of the Today Show. 1.00

00:19:02.340 So she clearly used a cane and I'm sure she was slow going and they'd have to have pulled a car right up to that door. 1.00

00:19:09.240 Right. I mean, like it's 2 a.m.

00:19:11.860 They would have had to pull the car if they know this woman's on a cane and she can't move well and she's fighting. 1.00

00:19:16.900 You know, she's at the point where she's potentially bleeding. 1.00

00:19:19.420 Don't you think they would have had to have a car right up there in her driveway? 0.86

00:19:23.800 Absolutely. And they're in one of in one of the reports.

00:19:27.700 And, you know, as this dripped and drabbed information came out, there was a mention of forced entry.

00:19:36.880 That was one of the things that was said.

00:19:39.800 And so I was hopeful that when I heard that and then the droplets of blood, I was really hopeful that those droplets of blood might belong to the suspect.

00:19:49.100 We might have cut themselves when breaking a window or something like that.

00:19:52.780 That that hope has been dashed because they did confirm that that DNA belonged to the victim here.

00:19:59.620 So unfortunately, what about touch DNA, Randy?

00:20:02.800 You know, it's like now we've got touch DNA.

00:20:04.840 That's what caught Brian Kohlberger.

00:20:06.620 Well, for sure. And you can bet that.

00:20:08.240 And this is one of the beautiful, beautiful things about the cooperation with the FBI.

00:20:12.320 They are unparalleled with their forensic abilities and and seeing that they were called into the scene early on.

00:20:20.820 They have tremendous assets at their disposal.

00:20:24.400 So they they but it takes time for that DNA evidence to to surface.

00:20:30.700 And then and then, of course, you know, DNA databases aren't aren't, you know, it's not like the fingerprint database where everybody that's been arrested as has DNA out there.

00:20:40.440 So it is.

00:20:42.120 Well, and on top of that, if it's we have to factor in the possibility that this is somebody from Mexico, since it's only, you know, an hour away from the southern border.

00:20:50.340 And would we have, you know, if it's not an American, potentially, would we have DNA in the way we do for most Americans linked at least, you know, maybe 10 times removed.

00:21:00.920 But most of us are in there now, thanks to some distant relative who's gone to these DNA databases and given their blood.

00:21:06.860 We just we don't know.

00:21:07.900 But, Jim, it's an interesting question about DNA and the FBI's help.

00:21:11.180 And also, we know it's been reported that the FBI is using its cell phone towers, its triangulation, you know, how it can check the towers to see what phones were in the area at a certain time.

00:21:24.800 So now the 2 a.m. info is very helpful.

00:21:27.980 And unlike the three of us, the FBI almost certainly has Nancy's actual phone and they can see what time she put it down.

00:21:37.560 They can tell what time you went to bed.

00:21:38.840 They can tell us certainly what time you stopped texting people, what time you went offline on it.

00:21:43.860 So if they can probably put the time to within maybe even, you know, a couple of minutes of when she got taken.

00:21:50.460 And then they use those cell phone towers to see which phones may have been in the area.

00:21:55.200 I mean, that ultimately that's how they caught the D.C. pipe bomber or so they tell us.

00:21:59.240 What do you make of those potential leads?

00:22:01.280 Oh, sure. All of that is very important.

00:22:02.840 And I assure you, as Randy was saying, there's a task force already assembled in the Tucson area of multiple agencies.

00:22:09.220 I know Border Patrol is involved, certainly FBI, Tucson Police Sheriff's Department and no doubt the state police.

00:22:16.660 And they're all working together on this.

00:22:18.140 And I know I don't know for a fact, but I can I can tell you that people from Quantico, the FBI laboratory are there in position now.

00:22:26.300 And they're running through all these aspects you just described.

00:22:29.240 Don't forget all the surveillance cameras up and down the streets of Tucson, tag recognition software, facial recognition software.

00:22:37.520 And again, not just that night.

00:22:39.060 They're going to have to, you know, grab it, of course, for that night, everything they can for those few hours before and after, you know, 2 a.m.

00:22:45.860 But they want to go back before that.

00:22:47.580 Jim, would the fact that it might have been done at 2 a.m. be helpful because there's going to be less traffic, fewer license plates to read and try to identify on the highway right around?

00:22:58.400 You know what I mean?

00:22:58.860 Like, is that is that a good thing that that it's been limited to a low traffic hour?

00:23:02.860 Well, sure.

00:23:03.340 And I mean, the benefit to the bad guys is that it's dark under the cover of darkness, all that they can get away with it.

00:23:09.500 The bad news from a forensic and technology perspective is there's going to be fewer people out there to, in fact, you know, correlate or collate the different tags that are running back and forth and going, you know, in whatever direction.

00:23:22.800 And this will be expanded by 50 miles to 100 miles in concentric circles, which would take us right to that Mexican border.

00:23:29.280 And by the way, these kidnappings, as Randy said earlier, they don't happen in the U.S.

00:23:33.440 They're very, very rare.

00:23:35.000 They do happen a lot in Mexico, Latin America and South America.

00:23:38.820 They know Mrs. Guthrie is the daughter of a very, I'm sorry, the mother of a very wealthy woman newscaster.

00:23:46.460 And they know this is a prime target.

00:23:49.460 And I'm just wondering if there's been a ransom demand already, but that's not being released.

00:23:54.420 And we, you know, some criticism perhaps justified of the sheriff, but maybe they're sitting on something that we, I'm sure they're sitting on a lot we don't know.

00:24:01.580 Is it possible there's a ransom demand?

00:24:03.480 If there's no ransom demand, then what's the purpose of this?

00:24:05.980 Some kind of a revenge or something.

00:24:09.580 And I, six weeks ago, we had the Brown University shooting and the MIT shooting.

00:24:14.400 That goes back 25 years and a whole continent apart.

00:24:17.400 So if there's no money demand, then what's the, what's the motivation behind this?

00:24:21.440 And I'm sure that's what the police and law enforcement are struggling with right now.

00:24:25.420 Motivation will be nice to know for money or for revenge.

00:24:28.540 He said no, he said no to ransom.

00:24:31.600 And he said no in a way that I believed.

00:24:33.400 He was like, that's just, we haven't heard anything about that yet.

00:24:36.800 No, no ransom demand.

00:24:38.020 Unless they insisted he doesn't, unless they insisted he doesn't say that publicly.

00:24:42.280 That's right.

00:24:42.960 He could be, could be misleading for everyone's protection.

00:24:45.720 But for whatever it's worth on the record, he denied that there had been a ransom demand.

00:24:49.840 But you tell me, Randy, I, there's just no way in my lay person's view, they didn't take her because she's related to Savannah Guthrie.

00:25:00.920 I mean, what are the odds that this is just some caper where they've kidnapped an 84 year old woman who just so happens to be the mother of one of the biggest news stars in America?

00:25:11.860 Like that just, that does not track to me.

00:25:14.020 Well, in law enforcement, we don't believe in coincidences and I don't believe in that coincidence either.

00:25:20.220 You're absolutely right.

00:25:21.280 Here is a very high profile.

00:25:23.780 You know, her daughter is very, very high profile.

00:25:26.180 And, and, you know, Jim was talking about victimology, highly critically important in, in this type of investigation.

00:25:33.620 But the victimology is going to have to now expand to include the daughter because they're going to be looking into any threats, any, any type of past occurrences that might lead to some type of, of a grudge.

00:25:52.020 You know, you know, there, there's, there's people out there in the world and you and I both know that they, they aren't playing with a full deck and, and, and there, there are people that, that, you know, concentrate on, on a, on an individual and they become, you know, so incredibly attuned to them that they, they view themselves as being related to them or a love interest or anything like that.

00:26:20.900 So all of this has to be looked at.

00:26:23.460 You can't, you can't discount anything here.

00:26:25.960 And that's what makes this such a, a, a, a very, very difficult investigation.

00:26:30.920 And it's, it's going to require, um, all of the resources at play here.

00:26:36.360 And I, and I just, as the time ticks by here, Megan, I'm, I'm really concerned as time ticks by the chances of survival are diminishing, uh, literally by the hour.

00:26:48.920 I, I, I'm just trying to figure out, you know, why, why would you do this?

00:26:55.480 You know, Jim, I'm, I'm thinking in, we talked to Matt Murphy, a longtime federal prosecutor yesterday, and he was saying, you know, forgive me, but don't rule out a possible sex crime because he's prosecuted cases where 79 year old women were raped and attacked.

00:27:13.880 And, and so sadly that made some sense, but one would think that if that were to happen, she would have been left there or if she'd been killed afterward that she'd be left there.

00:27:27.340 I don't know. Um, it's strange that they took her like they, they clearly took her.

00:27:34.020 And I suppose you could make the case that if they killed her in the house, forgive me for this kind of speculation, but we're all wondering what happened.

00:27:42.420 That, that also could explain the pacemaker no longer communicating with the Apple watch at 2 AM.

00:27:48.780 You know, that's the other possibility of why the, the, the, the sinking stopped.

00:27:53.500 Well, this was a high risk crime to go to the door, grab the woman and do anything with her.

00:27:58.920 Uh, it, it, it increases a hundred fold by putting her in a car and driving away with her.

00:28:04.020 So much can go wrong after that.

00:28:05.920 You cross the line or one of your taillights is out.

00:28:08.320 A police officer could stop you.

00:28:09.500 And you have all kinds of issues.

00:28:10.980 Now, whether she's in the trunk, she has duct tape around her, you know, I'm just speculating here also, we don't know.

00:28:16.800 Um, but the, the, the, the reason to be fine, I agree with Randy, this is not coincidence.

00:28:21.800 They knew she was the daughter of this, uh, this prominent news person in the U S worth, worth some money.

00:28:27.620 I'm sorry, the mother, uh, uh, and her daughter was of course the newscaster and, and, and, and, and if, if money is not a factor, then it has to go back to some personal issue.

00:28:37.400 And there has been research done over the years.

00:28:39.540 Of course, there are some men out there who get kicks out of sex, uh, with much older women.

00:28:46.180 And the research was the older, the women, uh, the younger, the offender. 0.97

00:28:50.500 So we have her at 84.

00:28:52.320 What does that say about this case?

00:28:53.900 But there may be so much more involved here.

00:28:55.800 We're not going to lock into someone in their teens or early twenties necessarily because of that research.

00:29:00.840 Um, but, uh, nothing can be ruled out at this point.

00:29:03.600 Um, I would urge if the person is listening to us out there.

00:29:07.100 You make it look like this is so random and meaningless.

00:29:10.000 You must have a meaning.

00:29:11.460 You must have a purpose for doing this.

00:29:13.280 Let the authorities know, put something out there somehow.

00:29:15.920 And, uh, and hopefully give us a proof of life that this woman is alive. 1.00

00:29:19.480 She doesn't deserve to be killed. 0.97

00:29:20.860 She didn't do anything to you. 1.00

00:29:21.940 I can assure.

00:29:23.400 Do you know, Jim, is they brought dogs in all sorts of dogs.

00:29:27.020 And I'm, I'm just assuming they brought both rescue dogs, you know, bloodhounds and also cadaver dogs.

00:29:32.760 But would a cadaver dog get a hit if a person had only been dead in the house for a half an hour?

00:29:40.300 I think, and, and, and Randy can perhaps discuss this too, but cadaver dogs are so well-trained, uh, and, and they have such an expertise.

00:29:47.600 I mean, and there's some dogs even better than others, but I think they could pick up the scent, whether recently dead, dead in the house or, or, uh, or, or, you know, down the line somewhere.

00:29:57.200 But I, I believe a dog, a cadaver dog, well-trained with a proper, you know, uh, master, if you will, or, or trainer, uh, they would find the remains if they're somewhere in the area.

00:30:07.500 Maybe it's a good sign so far.

00:30:08.980 Because Randy, the, the, the, the one thing from that sheriff is he, he's not talking like she was killed in the house.

00:30:16.260 He's, he's, he clearly doesn't know whether she's alive or dead right now, but he's not talking like he thinks she was killed in the house.

00:30:23.140 He did bring in homicide detectives right away, but like there's an urgency to him and him covering the field with the press yesterday afternoon suggests he, he thinks there's still time to save her.

00:30:32.800 Yeah. And if that is, uh, that's all correlation to what they found at the crime scene.

00:30:38.880 I remember very early on, they did, they did, uh, couch this as a crime scene and they talked about droplets of blood, you know, later on, um, when, when a body, when a killing takes place, a murder takes place, it is, it is, uh, it is very messy.

00:30:56.880 Okay. You know, uh, whether it's from blunt, uh, you know, trauma for, uh, you know, hitting someone with an object, if it's a stabbing, if it's a shooting, it is, um, it leaves, it leaves a lot of evidence around.

00:31:11.520 And so when he talks about that, it was a crime scene and that they found evidence and especially the droplets that indicates to me that, um, that there was not a major crime scene found here, that there was not, um, a pool of blood or if you will, or, or tissue or things like that.

00:31:31.320 And that would be, that would, I mean, if you look at all the different ways that, that, um, that a body can lose, you know, its life, it's from, it's, it's from blunt, uh, trauma, it's from gunshots, it's from stabbings, it's from strangulation, but, um, but generally it's going to leave, it's going to leave a lot of forensic evidence behind.

00:31:52.860 And there's been no indication that there was a major scene found here.

00:31:57.520 Uh, I think, I think that probably would have been something that, that would have been, uh, that would have been told.

00:32:03.740 And then they would have changed the way the sheriff sounds when he's, when he's talking, you know, Jim, the, um, there's a possibility that they did kidnap an alive Nancy Guthrie and that she did pass after the kidnapping.

00:32:20.000 I mean, good God, I think about my own mom who's the same age and I don't know if my mom could handle that.

00:32:27.180 You know, like, I don't know if her heart could handle that, that sort of trauma.

00:32:30.360 And poor Nancy Guthrie had the pacemaker, was on some sort of medication that they said she needs every 24 hours or it could be fatal. 1.00

00:32:38.980 And I guess that's a possibility that could explain why we haven't had a ransom.

00:32:43.980 Well, a few things here, Megan, and good points.

00:32:46.700 Uh, the, the minimal blood and it's, it's too much of course for anyone, but the minimal blood of the scene could have been used a, a, a form of a control early on slap across the face, punch to the nose.

00:32:58.680 And that's where that blood came from just to get her to cooperate or get her limp and bring her out to the car. 1.00

00:33:04.580 And I hate to be this graphic, but let me go back, uh, in time to when I was an FBI agent in New York city, right across the river was the Exxon executive, uh, who was kidnapped, uh, from right outside of his door.

00:33:15.820 That was 1992.

00:33:17.140 His name was Sidney Riso and a high ranking, uh, Exxon executive.

00:33:21.600 And it turns out he was put in the box, taken away back of a van, then eventually put in a box, put in the pine barrens.

00:33:27.940 He died, but the husband and wife team still carried through on the attempt to get the ransom.

00:33:33.980 And eventually within a few days to a week, they were identified and arrested and they took, uh, they took FBI agents to the body.

00:33:40.820 So I, and I, I don't want to make this predictive or is something that we know it's going to happen in this particular case, but with older people, uh, the stress and the strain of a forced kidnapping. 0.96

00:33:52.420 I mean, think about it, your mother yourself.

00:33:54.900 I mean, how would you handle this?

00:33:56.740 Uh, you know, even above 50 years of age, uh, it could be very, very traumatic.

00:34:01.460 And, and if you already have preexisting medical conditions, pacemaker, as she does, you're not getting the meds.

00:34:07.000 It only exacerbates all the problems that can go wrong.

00:34:10.360 Um, but there have been, my point is here, there have been kidnapped victims who have died and the kidnapper said, well, you know, we did what we did.

00:34:19.100 Uh, we still want to get the money.

00:34:20.480 Of course, I'm hoping they would add the family would ask for a proof of life.

00:34:23.780 The old days, they would hold a newspaper up with the current headline to show that they're alive.

00:34:28.100 Uh, nowadays with technology, you can do it different ways, but there's also AI, which can make them look like they're alive and they're not.

00:34:33.960 So, uh, that part gets kind of iffy.

00:34:36.040 So I'm just hoping I'm going to be positive here that she's alive and the kidnapper just finding a way to either release her, get the money for her, then release her and go from there.

00:34:44.780 But does it, since we're all on the same page that none of us here thinks that this was coincidental, that, you know, it just so happened.

00:34:52.320 They, they targeted an 84 year old who was Savannah Guthrie's mom. 0.66

00:34:56.700 Um, it does make it so it back to your theory.

00:35:01.400 It's so it's either for money potentially, or to punish her for a report, potentially raw speculation with no support, but possibly there was some report she did.

00:35:10.320 I'm sure the FBI is combing through all of her recent reporting for, you know, the today show, any in-depth interview she did when I would imagine they're looking at all of that.

00:35:22.080 But I also wonder, like, you tell me, wouldn't somebody that high profile be a huge risk for kidnappers, even south of the border kidnappers where it's more frequent?

00:35:34.840 Like, you gotta know, if you go for a woman like that, it's gonna be on every television station in the country and the heat is gonna be really, really high, which I feel like would be a deterrent. 0.99

00:35:49.140 Like, maybe that's an argument against them knowing who this was.

00:35:53.140 Either of you guys have thoughts on that?

00:35:54.300 Yeah, I agree with you.

00:35:57.280 Um, when you look at the, uh, high profile nature of this, uh, you know, I, I would venture to guess that, uh, most of America is now aware of this situation and they're not operating in a vacuum, right?

00:36:12.800 They, they have a landlord, whoever took this, whoever took this woman, they don't live in a vacuum.

00:36:18.860 They, they have a life, they have, uh, relatives, they have friends, uh, they have, uh, business associates.

00:36:24.760 They, they have, uh, they have an area that they need to cover.

00:36:28.480 Um, so it, it's really, it's really, um, worrisome that, that they have taken this, this, uh, uh, action.

00:36:39.200 Megan, if I may add, what do you think, Jim?

00:36:41.360 Willie Sutton used to say, he was asked, why do you rob banks?

00:36:44.520 Well, that's where the money is.

00:36:45.960 Uh, so why would someone kidnap a high profile person or their heir or, or whatever?

00:36:52.720 And that's because that's the best chance of getting money.

00:36:55.860 Look, uh, Patty Hearst, that was a political kidnapping in the early seventies, but they knew the Hearst family had tons of money. 0.99

00:37:01.800 Uh, Frank Sinatra Jr.

00:37:03.060 Was kidnapped in the early sixties.

00:37:04.560 That was a high profile person.

00:37:06.280 There was an heir to the Coors, uh, uh, brewery, uh, uh, company.

00:37:11.800 I believe late fifties, early sixties kidnapped.

00:37:14.220 He was eventually found dead.

00:37:15.960 Uh, so, uh, and this happens across, you know, Europe and South America all the time.

00:37:20.880 A lot of soccer players or football players in other countries, they come from, you know, Ecuador, Brazil, wherever.

00:37:27.420 And the kidnappings occur there, even though they're making their money elsewhere.

00:37:30.740 So, uh, it's, it's high risk.

00:37:32.820 You're right about that, Megan, but it's also high reward because as Willie Sutton said, that's where the money is.

00:37:37.700 So they think it's worth a shot here.

00:37:39.700 We don't know this is a kidnapping for profit yet.

00:37:41.820 They're very, very rare in the U S but 65 miles from the Mexican border.

00:37:46.420 It certainly can't be ruled out, but where's that ransom note or ransom demand that we're waiting to hear about.

00:37:52.440 And like cartels, you know, are, we've been ramping up our efforts against them.

00:37:58.740 You know, it's not, it's not Mexico, it's America, it's, it's Tucson, Arizona, but it's very close.

00:38:04.540 And, you know, you've got to factor in what's happening down there.

00:38:07.380 Speaking of possible politics, uh, the white house just put out a post on X about it.

00:38:13.060 That reads as follows the search for Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie is ongoing and authorities are requesting assistance from the public.

00:38:21.520 Anyone with information is urged to contact 9-1-1.

00:38:24.340 Our prayers are with the Guthrie family as we hope for Nancy safe return home.

00:38:28.360 And they posted the picture of her.

00:38:31.320 If you have information called 9-1-1 pointing out, this is what she looks like.

00:38:35.000 She's a five foot five. 0.98

00:38:36.340 She weighs 150 pounds, uh, blue eyes, brown hair, last seen January, um, 31st. 0.86

00:38:44.480 And then this just also in, hold on, um, Brian Enten, who works for NewsNation, just posted a video from Nancy's home.

00:38:52.520 Uh, he's saying the first thing he noticed coming out there is how incredibly remote the area is, that everyone lives on an acre or more.

00:38:58.900 There are no streetlights.

00:39:00.460 He was out there last, last night.

00:39:02.040 It was very dark and we were also told that this is an, a neighborhood with like mostly elderly people reportedly, Randy, that, you know, it's one of those sleepy retirement communities from the sound of it, this particular area where she lived.

00:39:15.860 But with a house that's a million dollars, that's got acreage around it.

00:39:19.800 We've seen the aerials.

00:39:20.720 It clearly had some grounds.

00:39:22.700 You're going to have to have groundskeepers.

00:39:25.320 You're going to have to have most likely a maid or a maid service that comes in. 1.00

00:39:29.240 And you're probably going to have somebody who comes in and helps you with your meals.

00:39:33.960 You know, I mean, if Savannah was taking care of her mom in any way close to the way I take care of mom, my mom, I'm sure she had all of those things, you know, because she's, both of our moms were widowed at very young ages and didn't have a husband to do any of that.

00:39:48.880 And even an 84-year-old husband is not totally capable of doing all that.

00:39:54.020 So would you imagine that's where they're going to start?

00:39:56.560 Not to blame the staff, but look, the odds are that close to Mexico, you're going to have a fair amount of people who are volunteering for those roles.

00:40:06.160 And I don't know, I feel like if I were a cop, that's where I'd start.

00:40:08.300 There's absolutely no doubt that that is paramount in the investigative process here.

00:40:14.580 And I spoke to a law enforcement officer yesterday who has jurisdiction down there.

00:40:21.000 Just tell me about this, about the area.

00:40:23.760 And yeah, exceedingly dark.

00:40:25.960 There's not a streetlight anywhere near these.

00:40:29.320 It's a hilly area.

00:40:31.120 If you're even going out for a walk, then you're going to be straining.

00:40:38.500 So yeah, the surrounding area would be inhospitable for any length of walking.

00:40:46.540 That's why when Jim talked about a vehicle being utilized at the outset, there's absolutely no doubt that that was a mode of transportation that will play a key role here.

00:40:57.980 But you did hone in on something critically important, and that is the people who work there, who would be most familiar with the property, who would be most familiar with the actions and the scheduling of the victim here.

00:41:14.240 So yeah, they will not only look at them, but they will look at everyone that they know.

00:41:18.660 Because remember, nothing happens in a vacuum.

00:41:24.400 There's conversations that take place between friends and relatives.

00:41:30.200 So you can bet that the landscapers, that the maid, whoever was working over there, and just like Jim said earlier, was a plumber there earlier in the week. 0.93

00:41:39.340 Every one of these people has to be vetted, and they're going to have to undergo some serious questioning.

00:41:45.480 I mean, I was thinking about it, because like, again, if her mom's anything like my mom, she was shouting from the rooftops about her well-known daughter.

00:41:55.280 I mean, I was a kid, my mom, when I go home to visit her, will go out to eat, and she'll say, stand up so people can see who you are.

00:42:01.520 She loves it.

00:42:02.400 It's like, you know, it's vicarious, you know, and affection, and she enjoys telling people that.

00:42:07.740 But it can be potentially dangerous, and I'm sure that Nancy Guthrie had pictures of Savannah all over her home, so she wouldn't even have to shout it from the rooftops for somebody who had been in there as a service personnel, as, you know, a temporary worker, what have you.

00:42:24.700 And that's another form of exposure.

00:42:27.240 I don't, I, I don't know.

00:42:31.560 I just feel like, what kind of a plan is that?

00:42:33.620 I listened to Ashley Banfield talk to the sheriff yesterday.

00:42:36.680 She asked a lot of good questions, Jim.

00:42:38.400 She asked, were there any footprints that were recovered, like, outside, you know, if there were gravel or some sort of sand?

00:42:45.640 Nothing.

00:42:46.220 He said the driveway was not that kind of driveway.

00:42:49.040 And so he clearly does think they used the driveway.

00:42:52.640 Nothing.

00:42:53.240 No footprint, blood, nothing like that.

00:42:55.200 She asked about the cameras.

00:42:56.780 He said, he actually, I think he said there were not cameras inside, but there were outside.

00:43:02.420 And then there was a report today that they had, when he talked to Ashley, he said, I'm hoping that we can find the data on the cloud, but if not, then from the manufacturer, like the service provider.

00:43:14.820 And then today it hit that there is no cloud database for these cameras.

00:43:19.880 So now they're dependent on whoever maintains the cameras.

00:43:24.180 And I suppose we also have to wonder whether the cameras were on and operational and not just for show or the contract lapsed.

00:43:33.460 You know, there's also, just because there's a camera doesn't mean it was on.

00:43:36.520 But how long would that take, right?

00:43:38.640 It's like, what's the point of having the security camera if they can't get back to you with what happened in your driveway at 2 a.m.

00:43:45.680 on Saturday morning?

00:43:48.040 You know, if they can't do that within a day or two, if you've got to wait a month, forget it.

00:43:53.180 Yeah.

00:43:53.340 I mean, lesson learned here for a $99 investment and $99 a year subscription, get a security system.

00:44:00.120 Whether you're wealthy or your daughter's wealthy and famous or not, you know, that's an idea for everyone out there.

00:44:06.400 And look, it's very likely, again, I'm not going to paint whoever took Mrs. Guthrie as a criminal mastermind, one or more people, but they probably had enough common sense to know whether in advance whether there was a camera system or not.

00:44:20.560 Because that would be a dead giveaway.

00:44:21.860 They know the police, the first thing they would look at is the ring camera, blink camera, whatever it is, and try to get information off of that.

00:44:28.420 So they either knew how to disable that, or they knew in advance it wasn't operational, or perhaps in advance they disabled the system there.

00:44:37.920 So, because so far we're not getting any breaks there.

00:44:40.860 I think it's going to come down to other cameras, you know, from other neighbors' houses, even down the street.

00:44:46.860 There had to be an ingress and egress to that property, east, west, north, south, whatever direction it is.

00:44:52.340 Whether they came back the same way they went, of course, we don't know.

00:44:54.920 But every single camera system along that way has to be looked at.

00:44:58.660 And, Megan, you said very early on in our talk today that, you know, at 2 a.m., I don't know what time the bars close in that area,

00:45:04.880 but, I mean, you will think the roads are a lot less crowded at 2 a.m. on a Sunday morning than certainly 2 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon.

00:45:12.200 So that could be an advantage also.

00:45:14.060 So it may be technology.

00:45:16.020 It may be DNA.

00:45:17.200 We didn't talk about fingerprints.

00:45:18.880 They probably wore gloves to the scene, which would have prohibited those being left behind.

00:45:23.180 But other forensic evidence of old-school kind, forensic kind, as well as technology are hopefully going to put this together.

00:45:30.020 And they're going to take every path they can from that house in any direction and look at cameras in that regard

00:45:35.760 and see who they can find that may somehow become a suspect law.

00:45:39.660 And those license plate readers, those license plate readers, that's, like, only on the highways?

00:45:46.740 I mean, that's – are they not – you tell me.

00:45:49.280 I mean, how are they going to be helpful?

00:45:51.160 Well, police cars have them, too.

00:45:52.620 And they can pick up tags and they can look at them, retrieve them, and archive them for days, weeks afterwards, depending on the department.

00:45:59.000 So there are always – yeah, it's going to be a Herculean task.

00:46:02.300 And I tell you, whether because she's a famous – the mother of a famous person or not, that can be a whole different discussion.

00:46:08.580 But there is going to be a large task force here.

00:46:11.520 We're at least at dozens of people now, maybe approaching 100, bringing people in from all over the country,

00:46:17.440 certainly on the federal level, to help out on this case.

00:46:20.480 And they're going to be – just like with the Boston bomber back in 2012, I think it was, you know,

00:46:25.700 all the video they were going through then, they eventually found the two brothers.

00:46:29.860 And these things – and with the Idaho killer, they made a car stop on him somewhere in the Midwest when he was driving back with his father.

00:46:37.720 That was plate recognition software that got him at least pulled over then.

00:46:41.820 So that will be put to use.

00:46:43.760 It's being put to use right now, 24-7, and hopefully they're going to get a break in that regard.

00:46:48.760 Someone is where they shouldn't be.

00:46:50.500 That plus the cell phone.

00:46:51.400 Throw in cell phone information.

00:46:53.100 It could be helpful.

00:46:53.840 The towers.

00:46:54.500 And that's going to help.

00:46:55.020 I mean, I'll guarantee you the NSA knew almost immediately who was in that area at 2 a.m.

00:46:59.440 Like the NSA has got those records time after time, we're told, in a way that's very helpful.

00:47:06.120 But this is not helpful, guys.

00:47:07.520 This is just crossing my desk from the Daily Mail.

00:47:10.160 Quote, a doorbell camera Nancy owned was removed by the time investigators arrived on Sunday.

00:47:19.340 Now, that's very odd wording.

00:47:22.120 I don't know whether that means they think the bad guys took out the camera, right?

00:47:28.020 Like, I mean, that would certainly track with what they're saying, Randy, evidence of foul play, including – they've said like around the door, like around – they think there was a breaking and entering.

00:47:39.280 You know, so like it's possible – I mean, if this person actually knew enough to go like take out the ring camera or the Nest camera before they went in there, that's – I don't know.

00:47:51.360 Is that sophisticated or isn't it?

00:47:52.800 Does every – do you think every crook would know how to do that?

00:47:54.880 Well, with the advent of these security cameras, you know, for years now, they're so commonplace.

00:48:03.200 It is not an unusual set of circumstances for a crook to know about how to disable those cameras.

00:48:09.840 It really is not difficult.

00:48:11.620 So – but it does show the nefariousness of this, that – it's interesting that it's coming out now that that ring camera was removed, not just disabled, it was removed.

00:48:25.180 And the question that, of course, I have is, is that – because the sheriff mentioned something about a search warrant yesterday when he was referring to the security footage.

00:48:36.980 You know, I'm not familiar enough with the ring camera to know whether that information was, you know, centralized somewhere within the ring system.

00:48:48.820 I know that, you know, to access it from your device, you know, generally speaking, it's your phone, you know, that you can go back and you can see what took place.

00:49:00.740 So that's – but that's a critical component now that that's been released, that it just brings more and more attention to the fact that this was a planned abduction and this was not a crime of passion.

00:49:15.220 This was something that was planned, that was – you know, that was – and I agree with Jim, too.

00:49:22.100 I don't think it's one person.

00:49:24.240 And – but here's where that plays a role. 0.56

00:49:28.300 You know, we all know that if you want to keep a secret, you got to kill the other person, right?

00:49:33.540 So the fact that we believe that there is more than one person involved could lead to a, you know, an ability to solve this through some information that might surface from that.

00:49:50.600 Yeah, somebody talks.

00:49:51.460 Yeah, exactly.

00:49:52.520 Or makes a mistake.

00:49:53.900 This is just in on what to expect at 1.30.

00:49:57.860 Per a spokesperson at the Presser, later this morning, Sheriff Nanos is expected to talk about some of the evidence recovered at the Guthrie home to clarify what steps are being taken in the investigation and to address information regarding a potential vehicle of interest.

00:50:12.940 Let's hope they actually have one.

00:50:14.440 Guys, thank you both so much, Jim and Randy.

00:50:16.460 All the best.

00:50:17.040 Really appreciate it.

00:50:17.800 You're welcome.

00:50:18.040 Thanks for having us, Maggie.

00:50:19.200 Thanks for having us.

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00:52:25.800 Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes.

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00:52:59.120 I want to tell you big news.

00:53:00.660 Tomorrow, we will be heading down to Washington, D.C. for an interview with Vice President J.D. Vance.

00:53:06.200 It will be our first sit-down with him since 2024 during the campaign.

00:53:11.620 There's a lot to discuss, and we're very excited to bring that to you tomorrow.

00:53:16.280 We're going to try to get it on the air during the 12 to 2 live SiriusXM show.

00:53:22.220 But you know how these things go.

00:53:23.580 That may or may not be possible, but we'll definitely release it on YouTube and via pod tomorrow.

00:53:28.680 Anyway, stay tuned.

00:53:30.500 We are going to aim to get it during our live slot on SiriusXM.

00:53:35.120 So that ought to be fun.

00:53:37.440 Why don't you send me an email if you've got something that you want me to ask the Vice President.

00:53:43.200 It's megan at megankelly.com.

00:53:46.040 So much more news to get to before we do that.

00:53:48.660 Don Lemon went on Jimmy Kimmel last night and played the victim.

00:53:51.800 And the ladies of The View are speaking out about this case, too, giving their brilliant legal analysis, as always.

00:53:58.680 Because, of course, you ask yourself, well, but what does Ana Navarro think when you look at any complex legal case? 1.00

00:54:05.000 I know that's what Rich and Charlie do.

00:54:07.720 They're here.

00:54:08.700 It's an NR day.

00:54:10.020 Rich Lowry is here.

00:54:10.900 He's editor-in-chief of National Review and Charles C.W. Cook, senior writer for National Review and host of the Charles C.W. Cook podcast.

00:54:18.140 Find all of their work by becoming an NR Plus subscriber.

00:54:23.320 Highly recommend I am.

00:54:25.420 And I subscribe to the – all of it.

00:54:27.700 The paper magazine and NR Plus online profiles, and it gets rid of almost all the ads.

00:54:33.100 And it's wonderful.

00:54:33.980 Guys, great to see you.

00:54:34.900 Thank you.

00:54:35.260 Charles, did you or did you not text Rich this morning or the morning of Don Lemon's arrest and say,

00:54:40.880 what does Ana Navarro think? 1.00

00:54:42.720 Well, I didn't because it's just an assumption between us at this point that we wait for her take and then we both echo it and usually incorporate it into National Review's editorial line.

00:54:56.580 If only someday you could actually get her so you didn't have to go through this farce.

00:55:00.720 Now we're on pins and needles.

00:55:01.840 It would be a lot easier.

00:55:02.760 I don't think Charlie or I know what she said, so we need to know.

00:55:06.180 We're going to come down on this issue.

00:55:07.680 We need to hear the clip.

00:55:10.580 I got you covered, Rich.

00:55:11.580 Who looks after you better than I do?

00:55:14.560 She went on The View and she discussed the grand jury indictment of Don.

00:55:19.300 And this was her take in Sot 21B.

00:55:23.320 He was at that protest like a week ago, right, in the church.

00:55:28.060 And then a week later they sent –

00:55:30.600 They got a grand jury to indict him.

00:55:32.420 To indict him.

00:55:33.480 But this is after they had gone to three different courts trying to get judges to sign off. 0.99

00:55:40.380 And the judges, in all three previous cases, said to the DOJ, get the hell out of my courtroom, you clowns. 0.97

00:55:46.740 There is no case here. 0.97

00:55:48.040 So they basically did it themselves.

00:55:50.460 They did it.

00:55:51.360 They released the news at the exact same time that they released the Epstein documents.

00:55:55.780 The Epstein files.

00:55:56.400 So make no mistake about it.

00:55:58.180 This was about gaslighting.

00:55:59.940 This was about going against Don Lemon and other journalists. 0.99

00:56:03.060 By the way, all who happen to be black.

00:56:05.160 Happy Black History Month.

00:56:07.000 And I think it's, you know, to send a chilling message to anybody who is covering facts.

00:56:13.620 So she's not a big fan of the Minnesota grand jury.

00:56:18.980 She doesn't appear to believe in the sanctity of that organization or the indictment it handed down.

00:56:24.380 That's not how she felt when President Trump was indicted, when he was a candidate.

00:56:28.960 Just for old time's sake, let's take a look at 21C.

00:56:32.000 I want to thank this special grand jury because they have been meeting for weeks and weeks.

00:56:36.760 They've done this incredibly seriously.

00:56:38.540 These are not people with a political agenda.

00:56:40.520 These are regular New Yorkers.

00:56:43.180 Donald Trump finally won a popular vote yesterday.

00:56:47.940 The grand jury voted to indict him.

00:56:52.540 So there's a bit of an inconsistency there, Rich.

00:56:55.580 But for the record, she doesn't think much of the grand jury and its indictment of Don Lemon.

00:57:02.000 And they appear to believe that it's a race thing on the side of The View.

00:57:06.380 Yeah, well, they seem to think he was just picked up randomly walking down the street.

00:57:10.300 And if you're being arrested just for being annoying and being Don Lemon, there would have

00:57:13.600 been so many offenses prior to this where they could have gone to a grand jury and got some

00:57:18.180 supposedly bogus indictment.

00:57:20.800 He was indicted because he has likely committed a crime.

00:57:26.280 And whether he'll ultimately be convicted of this, I'm a little skeptical.

00:57:29.680 But he was conspiring with these people.

00:57:31.220 He knew about it beforehand.

00:57:32.860 He was helping conceal it.

00:57:34.460 He went into the church.

00:57:35.600 He was part of the disruption.

00:57:37.080 He was asked by the pastor to leave.

00:57:38.840 He didn't leave, at least not when requested by the pastor.

00:57:42.340 And those are the facts that led to this indictment.

00:57:46.420 So I understand saying, look, I think journalists have a special status or he was a journalist

00:57:51.520 in this instance.

00:57:53.380 And it's an ambiguous case.

00:57:54.740 And I don't think he should be indicted.

00:57:56.180 There's some reasonable people to say that. 0.61

00:57:57.740 But say he was indicted because he's a black man or he's a Trump critic.

00:58:00.680 No, he was indicted for what he did.

00:58:03.160 And the First Amendment is not this special badge you get to hold up as a member of the

00:58:07.040 press that makes you immune from laws that are applicable to everyone else in the United

00:58:12.320 States.

00:58:12.700 That's just not how it works.

00:58:14.020 That's so that's exactly right.

00:58:16.140 That's what's so infuriating to hear these inane discussions, Charlie, because the three

00:58:20.320 of us know if we said we're members of the press and therefore we can accompany this group

00:58:25.620 storming an abortion clinic.

00:58:27.300 We have a microphone and we have a little thing that says press pass and they are storming.

00:58:32.420 They're chaining themselves to the door.

00:58:34.660 They're blocking women from entering the surgery room. 0.75

00:58:37.520 And we're part of it.

00:58:38.460 Like we're not chanting.

00:58:39.360 We're not saying don't have an abortion, but we're right there.

00:58:42.960 We're also looking at the women who are in the clinic and just by being there, posing

00:58:49.120 somewhat of an impediment to their exercise of what they want to do.

00:58:52.960 But we have a microphone.

00:58:54.180 We said, well, I'm a member of the press.

00:58:55.420 I'm documenting this historic protest that they're doing inside of it.

00:58:59.320 They're so brave.

00:59:00.260 They're in here.

00:59:01.020 This is what protest is all about to make people feel uncomfortable.

00:59:04.940 Trauma is part of it.

00:59:06.180 You crying lady over there, does anybody think that the Joe Biden Department of Justice would 1.00

00:59:12.300 have said, well, Charlie, Rich and MK, you're members of the press, so we're not going to

00:59:16.780 bother you?

00:59:18.400 No, I don't think so.

00:59:19.820 I think one of the annoying parts of this, and I do think it will be close when it goes

00:59:25.540 to trial.

00:59:26.360 It's hard to convict people.

00:59:27.560 It should be.

00:59:28.640 There will be arguments advanced on both sides that might be persuasive to a jury.

00:59:33.440 But I think the most annoying thing about this is that the defense of Don Lemon thus

00:59:39.980 far has been to shout the First Amendment.

00:59:43.780 And as you say, not only is it the case that that is not a blanket warrant for anyone who

00:59:49.680 considers himself to be connected to the press to get away with crimes, but the First Amendment

00:59:54.820 is on both sides of the ledger here.

00:59:57.380 The reason the Faith Act, at least the second part of it, which relates to churches, was

01:00:03.720 passed, was to deal with circumstances in which the First Amendment rights of churchgoers

01:00:09.980 are being violated by protesters, if you must call them that.

01:00:14.820 These people went further than that.

01:00:16.280 And the local government does nothing about it.

01:00:18.680 In structure, this is the sort of post-reconstructional civil rights era law that in other circumstances

01:00:25.680 Democrats like.

01:00:27.720 And in this case, for good reason.

01:00:29.400 You don't want a scenario in which people can storm into a religious service and stop

01:00:34.280 it and intimidate the churchgoers.

01:00:36.160 And then the local government, because it happens to approve of the cause, says, ah, well,

01:00:40.480 we're not going to deal with it.

01:00:41.620 The federal government in this case is acting to uphold the civil rights of those churchgoers.

01:00:46.180 So if you're going to look at the First Amendment in Don Lemon's case, that will be his defense

01:00:51.400 that he was merely there as a journalist.

01:00:53.240 You also have to look at it on the other side of the ledger.

01:00:55.600 But the people who are making this argument don't care about the other side of the ledger.

01:00:59.660 They don't think that that counts.

01:01:01.680 And in one case, Julian Castro, they excised it from the First Amendment.

01:01:07.100 You see this?

01:01:08.080 Julian Castro tweeted out the First Amendment.

01:01:10.500 And he did dot, dot, dot, where all the religious bits are.

01:01:15.720 Because he, yeah.

01:01:16.760 So he said, he said when he was asked why he thought Don Lemon was in the right, the First

01:01:22.100 Amendment, and they said Congress will pass no law.

01:01:24.220 And he went dot, dot, dot.

01:01:25.400 And then he said, respecting.

01:01:27.640 And then he just did the bits to do with freedom of speech in the press.

01:01:30.760 He missed out the religious part.

01:01:32.380 So you can't look at this if you don't look at both sides of it.

01:01:35.380 Now, in a courtroom, they will look at both sides of it.

01:01:37.500 It is quite complicated.

01:01:39.420 But the notion that Don Lemon is presumptively the victim here, I think, is absurd.

01:01:46.700 Yeah.

01:01:47.300 I mean, part of the problem is many of the people who have chosen to opine on this case have

01:01:52.160 not actually watched what Don Lemon actually did inside that church, how he sounded, how

01:01:58.420 he behaved.

01:01:59.220 I mean, I saw a debate between Harvey Levin of TMZ and Mark Garagos.

01:02:04.520 Harvey was on Don's side and Mark was on the prosecutor's side.

01:02:09.440 And Harvey was like, he had absolutely every right to go in there.

01:02:13.280 It's a public place.

01:02:14.040 It's a public place.

01:02:14.720 It's not.

01:02:15.260 A church is not a public place.

01:02:16.700 It's a private place.

01:02:17.840 And you get invited for a specific reason, which is to worship here as a Baptist.

01:02:22.840 You can't just storm in there and start getting a manicure.

01:02:26.720 That would also be trespass.

01:02:28.540 You have a limited invitation to come in for a specific purpose.

01:02:31.600 And if you're there for a different purpose, you are trespassing.

01:02:34.400 But on top of that, as everybody who's been in journalism for two minutes knows, as soon

01:02:39.120 as they tell you to get out, even if you do have the right to be there, even if it were

01:02:42.800 a public place, if you don't, you're in trouble.

01:02:46.880 Now you're in trouble.

01:02:47.860 And he was told, he was explicitly told by the pastor, I want you to leave.

01:02:52.780 It's on camera.

01:02:53.960 And we went back and actually watched exactly what happened after that moment.

01:02:57.440 He went on to interview, because he kept sticking his mic in people's faces, at least two more

01:03:02.680 people.

01:03:03.240 He continued his questioning.

01:03:04.760 He did not even come close to immediately leaving the church.

01:03:08.300 Several more minutes passed with him in the church. 1.00

01:03:11.140 And then even when he finally did leave, that's when he made his infamously stupid comment, 1.00

01:03:16.720 watching the people run and cry, saying, trauma's part of it. 1.00

01:03:21.300 Trauma's all part of it.

01:03:22.700 Which is what the three of us are going to say with the crying abortion seekers. 1.00

01:03:27.080 Sorry, you're going to have to feel the trauma.

01:03:29.980 I'm just here as a journalist.

01:03:31.200 This is what we journalists do.

01:03:32.640 We enjoy other people's trauma that we helped cause.

01:03:36.540 Here's part of what he did inside.

01:03:38.400 I've played this for almost everybody, because it's just so clear what he's doing.

01:03:41.660 This is SOT 20.

01:03:43.160 Our church had gathered for worship, which we do every Sunday.

01:03:47.380 And we were interrupted by this group of protesters.

01:03:50.340 We asked them to leave, and they obviously have not left.

01:03:56.780 What do you think of this?

01:03:58.360 I mean, this is unacceptable.

01:03:59.780 It's shameful.

01:04:00.720 It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.

01:04:07.720 But there were folks who will say, I have to take care of my flock, my family.

01:04:11.980 Listen, there's a constitution in the First Amendment to freedom of speech and freedom

01:04:15.820 to assemble and protest.

01:04:16.760 But we're here to worship Jesus, because that's the hope of these cities.

01:04:21.840 That's the hope of the world, is Jesus Christ.

01:04:23.740 I want to be very respectful.

01:04:24.720 Please don't push me, though.

01:04:25.880 We're here to worship Jesus.

01:04:28.420 That's why we're here.

01:04:30.040 That's why we're here.

01:04:31.120 That's what we're about.

01:04:32.100 Don't you think Jesus would be understanding and love these folks?

01:04:36.140 We're about spreading the love of Jesus.

01:04:37.700 But did you try to talk to them as a Christian?

01:04:39.920 No one is willing to talk.

01:04:41.080 Okay.

01:04:41.660 I have to take care of my church and my family, so I ask if you actually would also leave

01:04:45.980 this building.

01:04:46.620 You don't want us to chronicle or worship?

01:04:48.500 Unless you're here to worship.

01:04:49.200 I'm always worship.

01:04:50.000 I'm a Christian.

01:04:51.740 It's right there.

01:04:52.620 I mean, he explicitly tells him to leave.

01:04:55.220 And he starts it off by saying, I've asked everyone to leave.

01:04:58.060 And he just keeps going and going and going.

01:04:59.840 And then the ongoing commentary about how this is what it's all about.

01:05:03.560 This is protesting.

01:05:04.540 You can just protest wherever you want, whenever you want.

01:05:06.880 That's what the Constitution provides, Rich.

01:05:10.560 Yes.

01:05:11.480 He went to the Anna Navarro School of Law.

01:05:14.580 Yeah.

01:05:14.800 He used the term we at one point.

01:05:17.060 We're going to do this operation.

01:05:18.220 It wasn't a royal we, although given his self-regard, you know, you might want to account for that

01:05:22.700 possibility, is I'm part of this group.

01:05:24.960 We.

01:05:25.580 And he cites the First Amendment with the pastor.

01:05:27.740 He also showed the scene of these people, again, worshiping in accord with their First

01:05:32.500 Amendment rights, getting disrupted and brayed at by these protesters, said, oh, this is what

01:05:36.360 the First Amendment is, okay, when they're actually violating the First Amendment.

01:05:39.840 My other favorite moment of his from inside the church, he's talking to one of the parishioners,

01:05:44.580 you know, about what's going on.

01:05:45.660 He says, well, there's a rumor that one of the pastors might be with ICE.

01:05:48.940 And the parishioner's like, well, shouldn't you know?

01:05:51.560 Right?

01:05:52.460 I mean, it's not, you shouldn't, you have no right to go in there regardless. 1.00

01:05:54.880 But why are you going in there on the basis of some idiotic rumor? 1.00

01:05:58.980 So the whole thing is so moronic and wrong. 1.00

01:06:02.720 Again, maybe he gets off. 0.98

01:06:04.120 But if he gets off, it still doesn't really mitigate the offense.

01:06:08.200 This was a terrible thing to do.

01:06:10.780 It was a violation of our civil society and other people's rights. 0.90

01:06:14.920 And he should be ashamed.

01:06:16.140 But I'm sure he's enjoying it because there's more attention and he's getting celebrated

01:06:20.300 by all the people he cares about, whether it's Ana Navarro or Jimmy Kimmel.

01:06:25.800 Oh, yeah.

01:06:26.580 So he went on Kimmel last night.

01:06:28.880 And this, I mean, speaking of Don Lemon loving Don Lemon, here's SOT 18.

01:06:36.620 When did you realize that this was a very, very big story?

01:06:42.000 I did.

01:06:42.440 I had no idea.

01:06:43.300 I had a little bit of an idea when I got, when I asked to use the restroom and, you know,

01:06:48.800 sort of early in the morning, there was CNN on a monitor.

01:06:51.780 And on the thing I could see, former CNN anchor Don Lemon arrested in Los Angeles.

01:06:56.440 And I said to the guy, I was like, is that, he goes, I said, is that happening a lot?

01:07:02.460 He goes, you've been on all morning.

01:07:05.260 Yeah.

01:07:05.620 And he says, this is a big deal.

01:07:06.900 My attorney said to me, I've prepared a statement.

01:07:09.900 You can rewrite it and edit it, but you need to deliver the statement.

01:07:13.180 I'm like, deliver it to who?

01:07:14.220 Like, what are you talking about?

01:07:15.740 And they said, the people who are waiting outside.

01:07:18.460 And so I go, my husband and I walk out and I see this, like, I mean, I don't know how many

01:07:24.180 reporters and paparazzi and helicopters.

01:07:28.460 I had no idea.

01:07:29.660 And I asked my husband, I said, what happened with the channel today?

01:07:32.940 Because I was concerned about, that's my livelihood and my channel and my viewers.

01:07:37.520 And he said, the channel's been going all day.

01:07:43.320 I'm sorry.

01:07:44.560 He also didn't finish either his live stream at the church or his interview with Kimmel,

01:07:48.900 Charlie, without reminding people to like and subscribe.

01:07:52.340 That clip underscores one of the other problems with the commentary around this, which is common

01:08:01.180 in the media, which is the belief that the First Amendment treats journalists who have

01:08:08.820 press passes and W-2s differently than it does anyone else, that it applies to the press,

01:08:16.260 that it's a protection of the press.

01:08:18.140 It's not.

01:08:19.860 The First Amendment applies no differently to Walter Cronkite than to some guy with an iPhone.

01:08:26.140 But I do think that the way that the Walter Cronkites of the world, obviously he's dead,

01:08:31.360 but would expect to be treated, is different than the guy with the iPhone.

01:08:35.900 And I suspect that if this had been a right-wing protest, let's put it in a mosque just to make 1.00

01:08:40.500 it more salient, and some guy who had never been a CNN anchor and wouldn't have been covered

01:08:46.680 by CNN subsequently went in and did every single thing precisely the same as Don Lemon,

01:08:53.940 except he wasn't famous and he wasn't on the right, I don't think there would be any outcry

01:08:59.740 at all if a Democratic administration brought a case under the FACE Act.

01:09:04.440 I think part of this claim that Don Lemon and others have made is, but I'm famous.

01:09:10.940 But that's not how it works.

01:09:12.740 Now again, I think it will be 50-50.

01:09:14.560 I do think there are strong defenses.

01:09:16.480 I think that the facts will be difficult to pass out in front of a jury.

01:09:20.520 But I just think the idea that there is something intrinsically wrong about this is crazy.

01:09:23.960 And the analogy I've been drawing is with the Wisconsin judge who tried to help the illegal

01:09:27.860 immigrant escape. 0.63

01:09:28.540 If you remember at the time, the first line was, oh my God, the Trump administration's

01:09:33.840 arresting judges, as if judges are immune from being held accountable for breaking the

01:09:40.300 law.

01:09:40.580 She did it.

01:09:41.120 She was then charged and she was convicted by a jury of her peers because she committed

01:09:46.180 a crime.

01:09:47.240 There's nothing about a judge that is sacrosanct and there's nothing about a journalist that is

01:09:52.040 sacrosanct.

01:09:52.600 They are subject to the same laws and the same protections as the rest of us.

01:09:56.180 It's what Harmeet Dillon said on this show last Friday, which was, you don't have a magic

01:10:03.200 invisibility cloak just because you declare yourself a journalist while you are participating

01:10:09.740 in a crime.

01:10:11.860 And we all know that.

01:10:13.080 I mean, even just the basic prospect of trespass, which is not what he's been charged with because

01:10:17.540 that's a state crime.

01:10:18.700 But I mean, how many times in our journalistic careers have we not been able to enter a certain

01:10:24.340 venue, we have to stay on the on the sidewalk.

01:10:27.180 If I had a nickel for every time my photographer is like, my sticks are on the sidewalk, they're

01:10:31.840 on the sidewalk, you know, like to protect us because we we know we're going to get in

01:10:35.520 trouble if we go any further.

01:10:36.840 We can't.

01:10:37.900 We obey that.

01:10:39.160 There are laws that my point is simply not that he should be charged with trespass, though

01:10:42.980 he should.

01:10:44.040 But just there are laws that apply to us, even though we're journalists.

01:10:48.840 And we all know that.

01:10:50.600 And when you say that to, you know, these NBCers or ABCers or CNNers who are trying to defend

01:10:55.540 Don Lemon, they know that's true because that's at least one that they all know they have to

01:11:00.580 abide by.

01:11:01.180 Like our news organizations will make sure because there's the one they're the ones who

01:11:03.940 have to pay the bill.

01:11:04.840 But somehow when it when when it's a law other than trespass, when it when it's a law that's

01:11:10.860 on the books to protect a religious organization, they stop being able to understand.

01:11:17.380 It's like, but but what do you mean?

01:11:19.460 He was just there to document the anti ice protesters.

01:11:25.000 Important work is really the unsaid piece of it, Rich.

01:11:27.680 Yeah.

01:11:28.200 So he could have documented it, maybe not just as well, but could have documented on the sidewalk

01:11:32.400 and waited for everyone to come out.

01:11:33.580 He could have had them prior to going in and heard all their planning and whatnot, and

01:11:38.320 then talked to everyone when they came out.

01:11:39.620 But he was part of the disruption.

01:11:42.620 And I just want to underline what Charlie said.

01:11:44.500 Scalia is so good on this, was so good on this as so many other things.

01:11:47.880 He pointed out freedom of the press.

01:11:49.760 We tend to think, well, it's the press like CNN.

01:11:52.420 But at the time of the founding, that term kind of institutional press wasn't used.

01:11:55.900 They were thinking more of a printing press, which anyone could have access to.

01:11:59.480 Was Benjamin Franklin a journalist or was he a guy with a printing press?

01:12:02.680 So it's meant to protect the freedom of speech of everyone, not just people who work at CNN.

01:12:08.620 Now, Don Lemon now is more like the guy, as Charlie alluded to.

01:12:11.600 He's the guy with the iPhone camera rather than the guy with CNN.

01:12:14.660 He's just now delighted he gets covered by CNN in an instance like this.

01:12:20.120 But again, it's meant for everyone, freedom of speech.

01:12:23.620 There are all sorts of other First Amendment freedoms.

01:12:26.340 And just because you have that iPhone camera and you say you're covering it doesn't provide

01:12:31.000 immunity to the law and from the law and doesn't mean you can go violate other people's First

01:12:35.940 Amendment rights.

01:12:36.560 Which they all knew when the J6 reporters got charged by Joe Biden and tried to raise the defense that they were First Amendment press

01:12:49.280 and were just there covering it, which the DOJ did not tolerate or believe.

01:12:54.620 And through the book at that handful of journalists that was trying to cover January 6th, saying you crossed the line.

01:13:02.800 It is not a shield in the way that you are trying to use it, the First Amendment.

01:13:06.040 Just for the record, again, it's not exactly required as proof to get Don Lemon, but for the record for the Harvey

01:13:13.540 Levins of the world, after the pastor explicitly told him to get out, which we all heard.

01:13:20.300 He said in the beginning, I've asked everyone to leave.

01:13:22.180 And he said at the end, and I want you to leave.

01:13:25.440 He spoke to two more parishioners.

01:13:27.560 He continued to describe the scene.

01:13:29.480 He told viewers to like and subscribe.

01:13:31.580 I can't, you guys.

01:13:32.420 He talked about the music being very loud and the pastor not offering a prayer to calm things down,

01:13:39.240 which he didn't appreciate, that he didn't calm things down the way Don Lemon wanted in response to the upset Don helped cause.

01:13:46.360 He talked about a young man being in the corner looking upset.

01:13:50.300 He finally leaves about seven minutes later.

01:13:53.060 The whole thing was only about 15 minutes, if that,

01:13:56.940 because he wanted to see what was happening outside as parishioners left.

01:14:00.460 He never said he was leaving because the pastor asked him to.

01:14:03.940 Just at a human level?

01:14:04.220 He clearly did not care.

01:14:05.500 Who among us would not leave a church if we were asked by a priest or pastor to leave?

01:14:10.380 Right?

01:14:11.120 I know.

01:14:11.920 Legal questions aside, put First Amendment aside, who would stay after a pastor in good faith asks you to go?

01:14:18.740 It's reprehensible.

01:14:20.340 Well, Rich, who would then go?

01:14:22.420 He could use it.

01:14:25.720 But who would then go on the Angry Ladies podcast within 24 hours and say, those are all white supremacists in there? 1.00

01:14:34.240 He tried to justify it by then completely disparaging everyone in that church.

01:14:43.160 The children, no one had done anything.

01:14:46.120 As far as he knew, there was absolutely no support for ICE.

01:14:48.340 There may or may not have been one pastor who had an affiliation. 1.00

01:14:51.520 Charlie, that was like doubling down on stupid. 0.99

01:14:54.780 But, you know, I think that is a calumny and I think it is outrageous that he said it. 1.00

01:15:00.200 So please don't get me wrong.

01:15:01.780 But let's just assume for the sake of argument that it had been a white supremacist church.

01:15:06.940 The First Amendment protects that.

01:15:09.660 You don't get to do bad things and then go on television and say, but the victims were mean.

01:15:15.040 The victims are still the victims.

01:15:18.400 That's the whole point of having a constitution that is small l liberal and neutral and covers everyone.

01:15:25.740 It doesn't matter whether those people are the best people who have ever lived in the history of the world or the worst.

01:15:31.780 They're still protected under the FACE Act.

01:15:34.180 And you point out that it is or should have been a trespassing case at root.

01:15:38.760 But the point is, as you know, the reason the FACE Act has been invoked here is because the state didn't bring trespassing charges.

01:15:46.900 That is exactly why the FACE Act exists.

01:15:49.680 It's a civil rights law.

01:15:51.340 The only point at which the federal government gets to pass laws and enforce laws that protect civil rights is when the local laws are not enforced.

01:16:00.800 That was true in the 1960s in the South, and it's true in Minnesota in 2026.

01:16:08.120 And that's why I say it doesn't matter, because the left often thinks that unless the victims of a crime are African-Americans in the 60s, then civil rights don't apply.

01:16:19.900 But that's not true.

01:16:21.320 This is a misconception that has actually corrupted a lot of our civil rights laws.

01:16:25.280 So civil rights don't apply to Asians who are being discriminated against in education.

01:16:30.500 Civil rights don't apply to Christians whose rights are being abused by progressives.

01:16:35.400 But that isn't true.

01:16:36.840 You don't have to...

01:16:37.940 Or to whites who get fired for their skin color.

01:16:40.100 You do not have to raise an affirmative defense in a civil rights case to say that you're one of the good guys.

01:16:46.100 You're covered if you're an American citizen whose rights have been violated.

01:16:49.720 So it's especially annoying that he went and did that, because what he wants the audience to hear is, oh, they're bad guys then.

01:16:56.640 Well, they're not, and that's a horrible slander.

01:16:59.180 But even if they were, or the audience doesn't like them, or Anna Navarro thinks that they're undesirable, who cares?

01:17:05.220 The federal government still should uphold the law in their defense.

01:17:08.460 I'll tell you what, the other thing that needs to happen here is a civil lawsuit must be filed, in particular, against Don Lemon.

01:17:19.020 If I were any one of those parishioners, most especially a mother of a child who was terrified, or the woman who either broke her arm,

01:17:29.280 they alleged it was broken in the indictment, but clearly hurt, which is what Pam Bondi said later,

01:17:34.120 I'd be suing, because it helps.

01:17:38.340 An intentional infliction of emotional distress claim can be brought, but they're much stronger if you can tie it to some actual injury,

01:17:44.880 you know, like a physical injury.

01:17:47.740 And certainly eyewitnesses seeing somebody hurt her arm, or eyewitnesses seeing strong evidence of emotional distress,

01:17:54.120 like a child crying in his mother's arms, would be very helpful to this claim.

01:17:58.100 And Don Lemon has plenty of money from his multiple lawsuits he continues to file against anybody who tries to fire him.

01:18:05.120 And they should make him pay.

01:18:07.720 They should make it, at a minimum, he should be made to pay for the trauma he helped cause those children.

01:18:12.580 He's bragging about how he's the most famous, he's the biggest name.

01:18:16.680 You know what that gets you?

01:18:18.220 You get listed as the first defendant in the lawsuit against everyone who went in there.

01:18:22.240 So we'll watch as that unfolds.

01:18:23.900 All right, let's keep going.

01:18:24.680 Speaking of crazy things in courtrooms, this judge, this judge who late yesterday tried to stop the Trump administration,

01:18:36.740 and for now has stopped the Trump administration, from removing temporary protected status from Haitians.

01:18:45.360 So Joe Biden let some nearly 400,000 Haitians into the country and said,

01:18:50.720 with my magic wand, I declare you temporary protected status, which means you're not an illegal.

01:18:56.020 You can't be kicked out because you've got my magic, you know, designation.

01:19:00.100 And Trump came in and said, I'm lifting that, that we're not, we're not going to wait that out.

01:19:07.560 I'm lifting that right now.

01:19:08.780 And this judge has said, and this is the same judge who said that Trump wasn't allowed to say transgender people can't serve in the military,

01:19:17.160 and she was reversed for a hysterical opinion she issued there.

01:19:21.440 And now she's at it again, saying Trump, as the sitting commander in chief, does not have the power to remove with his pen what Joe Biden granted with his.

01:19:30.440 And on and on, you can hear the woman's ideology, Angela, Anna Reyes is her name, Federal District Court of Washington,

01:19:38.820 where she says, there's a, there's a hostility to non-white immigrants that Kristi Noem has shown.

01:19:48.420 She goes on to say, the government has not cited any reason to end temporary protected status for Haitians abruptly.

01:19:54.440 And its approach is not in the public interest, she's decided.

01:19:57.520 Quote, the government does not cite any reason termination must occur post-haste.

01:20:02.800 Secretary Noem complains of strains that unlawful immigrants place on our immigration enforcement system.

01:20:08.440 Her answer, turn 300,000, 352,959 lawful immigrants into unlawful ones overnight. 0.98

01:20:17.640 She complains of strains to our economy. 0.51

01:20:19.920 Her answer, turn employed lawful immigrants who contribute billions in taxes into the legally unemployable. 0.99

01:20:25.760 She complains of strains to our health care system. 0.99

01:20:28.620 Her answer, turn the insured into the uninsured.

01:20:31.860 This approaches many things.

01:20:33.760 In the public interest is not one of them.

01:20:37.580 What?

01:20:38.220 Who died and elected her president, Rich?

01:20:41.160 Yeah, she's the new DHS secretary, I guess.

01:20:44.200 So we saw this in the first term as well, where some judges apparently consider unilateral executive action a one-way ratchet.

01:20:50.760 So Obama could do things unilaterally, and then when Trump just wanted to reverse it, judges said, no, no, you can't do that.

01:20:57.100 That would be crazy.

01:20:58.240 And this is a version of that made even worse by the fact that this is temporary protected status with emphasis on temporary, which means eventually it's supposed to go away and be reversed.

01:21:08.520 Look, I don't think it's a bad situation for these Haitians.

01:21:11.880 You had an administration letting them in with the assumption, oh, you get to stay forever.

01:21:15.120 That's the way temporary protected statuses very often work.

01:21:18.160 But under the law, Trump obviously can revoke it.

01:21:21.980 And this just goes to the broader aspect of this whole immigration debate over the last year where the left and Democrats and Biden, they created facts on the ground by letting a bunch of people in, either legally kind of laundering people who otherwise wouldn't get in through these various means, the CPB app or this TPS status for Haitians and others, or just let them flood in and give them a notice to appear that it's going to be ignored.

01:21:47.900 And then when Trump comes in and says, OK, I'm going to revoke the temporary status, I'm going to end CPP, I'm going to go after and deport these people, they're like, no, you can't do that.

01:21:58.100 This is the status quo.

01:21:59.940 And a big problem are Hollywood celebrities, folks in Minneapolis, they now take it as a given that the status quo of ignoring the law, the black and white letter of the law was a status quo such as that it's an intolerable act of aggression if someone actually dares to do what the law says should be done.

01:22:20.620 You detain the illegal immigrants until their proceedings reach a final conclusion, and if they can stay fine, if they go, you deport them. 1.00

01:22:28.220 That's what it says in the law, and Trump's offense here is just trying to actually apply the law for a change.

01:22:34.400 I mean, now we have a pair of rulings over the past 72 hours.

01:22:38.960 This one we discussed yesterday a bit with Jonathan Turley, the one from the judge in Texas, who decided that the little boy and his dad who were arrested by Border Patrol in Minneapolis and shipped down getting ready for removal back to their native country, that he had to be released.

01:22:58.860 They both had to be released and finished his opinion with a picture of the little boy in the dog hat with the wrong date, said it was dated February 31st, was lecturing and sanctimonious throughout the opinion.

01:23:16.440 I mean, speaking of Scalia, Charlie, he would be horrified at the attempts to legislate from the bench we are seeing these days.

01:23:24.260 Yeah, that second opinion you mentioned was honestly one of the most unhinged things I've ever read from a judge, to the point at which I initially thought it had been faked.

01:23:32.600 The February 31st made me wonder if it was a joke.

01:23:36.820 That was not law, and he's not a judge.

01:23:42.360 The annoying part of this, I think, is that these decisions are given the imprimatur of law.

01:23:51.680 And so those who favor them can say, look, the Trump administration once again has been struck down by a judge.

01:24:03.860 But what is conspicuously missing from the first case we were discussing, the Judge Reyes case with temporary protected status, is any specific references to the statute.

01:24:19.280 Now, I am, as you know, a big critic of the way that Congress has, over the years, delegated powers to the president.

01:24:27.240 There are far too many laws, in my view, that say, in the judgment of the president or in the estimation of the secretary,

01:24:34.020 or that just hand sweeping powers that were reserved to Congress to the president.

01:24:38.840 But Congress has done that, and it's done that a lot in the area of immigration.

01:24:44.380 And one of the things that it has allowed the president to do, for example, is determine if there are any countries from which immigrants might pose a threat.

01:24:55.100 You can shut those down.

01:24:56.560 Another thing that Congress has allowed the president to do is determine whether or not people deserve temporary protected status,

01:25:04.000 and when that temporary protected status stops.

01:25:07.220 The laws here aren't particularly complicated.

01:25:09.260 They don't say the president has to file a report that meets 17 different criteria.

01:25:14.940 They say in the public interest, they say in the judgment of the president.

01:25:18.280 And the Supreme Court has historically treated this area as non-justiciable.

01:25:24.360 That is to say that the Supreme Court does not decide whether or not the president's judgment was correct, only whether or not he got to make it.

01:25:32.360 This isn't like the tariffs area, where it is much more cabined.

01:25:36.340 So Joe Biden was allowed to determine that Haiti and Haitians qualified for temporary protected status, and Joe Biden did.

01:25:46.320 And Donald Trump is allowed to say that they no longer do.

01:25:50.240 If, I think it would be silly, but if Donald Trump tomorrow said,

01:25:54.460 Britain is such a mess, that the British are entitled to temporary protected status, 1.00

01:26:00.980 no judge could say that that was wrong, and no judge could say that a subsequent president who made the opposite determination was wrong either.

01:26:09.900 We've already had a Supreme Court case that is almost identical to this one.

01:26:14.680 We know what the Supreme Court, this Supreme Court, thinks about this matter.

01:26:18.920 It has come up before.

01:26:20.380 It will come up again.

01:26:21.520 This will be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court.

01:26:23.860 And the Supreme Court is going to say, I think, what I just said, which is, this is a non-justiciable question.

01:26:29.040 The same power that allowed Biden to let them in allows Donald Trump to send them home.

01:26:33.720 It doesn't really matter whether people like that think it's fair or mean or great or bad.

01:26:38.040 She mentioned insurance, employment, economic contributions.

01:26:42.240 Those things are not in the law.

01:26:43.920 If they were, she'd have a point, but they're not.

01:26:45.960 So he gets to do this in the way Biden got to do it, and the judges do not get to second-guess him unless there is a law that says to the contrary.

01:26:57.320 This is the second time now that she's tried to overturn a decision by Trump or his secretary, thanks to, quote, animus.

01:27:07.680 The trans opinion she issued was all about his alleged animus and Pete Hexas alleged animus towards trans people.

01:27:14.260 This one's all about the alleged animus of Kristi Noem to people from third-world countries.

01:27:20.560 And they quote her saying stuff similar to what Trump has said.

01:27:23.900 Like, I don't think she used the term shithole countries, but she came close. 1.00

01:27:27.680 Like, we just don't want these people here anymore. 0.73

01:27:29.960 They leech off of us, and they're out.

01:27:32.040 And she's using that to say this is a racial animus that's motivating this.

01:27:36.760 Meanwhile, good luck with that if they actually do look at it.

01:27:39.240 I mean, Trump very clearly wants to stop these immigrants from everywhere.

01:27:43.540 I mean, look what he did at the southern border.

01:27:46.220 He doesn't want anybody here on temporary protected status.

01:27:49.140 Like, I don't know if there's another example of a group of white immigrants from, like, Denmark who he's allowing.

01:27:55.820 They probably got shipped off to Greenland by Trump anyway in a dog sled.

01:28:00.600 So this woman's a problem. 1.00

01:28:02.780 She's an activist, and she's using her own priors to try to sweep Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump all under this, you know, you're full of hatred banner. 1.00

01:28:11.940 And she's going to have to get her hand slapped again by the Supreme Court. 1.00

01:28:15.820 You're right.

01:28:16.220 Tricia McLaughlin, who's the DHS spokesperson, tweeted out, Supreme Court, here we come.

01:28:22.160 This is lawless activism that we will be vindicated on and went on from there.

01:28:26.380 All right.

01:28:26.740 Stand by, guys.

01:28:27.260 We're going to take a quick break, and we will be back.

01:28:28.960 And I have a special, special treat for you guys on Billie Eilish.

01:28:33.980 We did a story on her yesterday, and there's been quite a development, and you are just the perfect guys to discuss it with.

01:28:40.640 Next.

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01:31:52.400 Hey, everyone. It's me, Megyn Kelly.

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01:32:38.040 Back with me now are National Reviews, Rich Lowry and Charlie Cook.

01:32:42.240 Um, so yesterday we discussed some of the antics at the absurd Grammys on Sunday night,

01:32:48.600 and one of the people we discussed was singer Billie Eilish for saying the following.

01:32:55.860 Watch.

01:32:56.480 No one is illegal on stolen land.

01:33:02.860 I love that.

01:33:09.180 And

01:33:09.780 yeah, it's just really hard to know what to say and what to do right now.

01:33:16.300 And I just, I feel really hopeful in this room, and I feel like we just need to keep

01:33:21.740 fighting and speaking up and protesting, and our voices really do matter, and the people matter,

01:33:27.560 and, um, I say sorry.

01:33:33.280 In that blacked out part, she said, F ice.

01:33:36.360 Um, her voice does matter, guys.

01:33:38.440 It matters a lot.

01:33:39.320 It matters to the Tongva tribe, uh, which is actually technically under her logic, the owner

01:33:45.600 of the land on which her $14 million house sits.

01:33:49.780 It's worth much more than that.

01:33:50.740 It was bought for that a few years ago.

01:33:52.460 And here is what has happened since Sunday night.

01:33:55.600 Her lavish mansion located on land that belongs to the Tongva tribe, the indigenous people of the

01:34:00.720 greater Los Angeles basin.

01:34:04.120 Um, they're upset about this land.

01:34:06.060 It's theirs ancestral ancestral land.

01:34:09.060 They have issued the following statement.

01:34:10.720 We appreciate the opportunity to provide clarity regarding the recent comments made by Billie Eilish.

01:34:14.560 As the first people of the greater Los Angeles basin, we do understand that her home is situated in our ancestral land, they said, adding, she has not reached out to the tribe herself.

01:34:27.680 Eilish has not contacted our tribe directly regarding regarding her property.

01:34:33.000 We do value the instance when public figures provide visibility to the true history of this country.

01:34:37.740 Additionally, the tribe said, they've contacted Eilish's team, quote, to express our appreciation for her comments.

01:34:45.420 It is our hope that in future discussions, the tribe can be explicitly referenced to ensure the public understands that the greater LA basin remains Gabrieleno Tongva territory.

01:34:58.620 And so the real question here is when is she going to return her mansion to the Tongva?

01:35:04.640 Rich, I mean, three, two, one, no time like the present.

01:35:08.600 There's no such thing as an illegal, unstolen land.

01:35:10.780 I'm sure it'd be a great community center for the tribe.

01:35:14.120 And she can go someplace else that she thinks was rightfully secure.

01:35:19.600 Now, so many levels of absurdity to this.

01:35:22.860 One, stealing land is what human beings did almost throughout the entirety of our history, very much including Native Americans, right? 1.00

01:35:30.480 And this is, in some ways, it speaks well of us as a Western society that you have people thinking this in these terms.

01:35:36.720 We stole it.

01:35:37.300 That was bad.

01:35:38.540 Because no one, no Comanche was thinking, oh, we really should have done that to the Apaches when we pushed them out. 0.89

01:35:43.920 No Iroquois, after they bought a bunch of rifles from the Dutch and the English, were thinking, no, we shouldn't do this to the Mohicans, right? 0.97

01:35:50.340 They just took the land.

01:35:51.920 So if you kind of peel the onion, every tribe that, you know, Ben and Jerry say the Lakotas need the Black Hills back or whatever it is, they stole it from someone else. 0.98

01:35:59.940 They moved in there and displaced other people.

01:36:02.340 So this is how it works.

01:36:03.800 And then it was through American leadership that you get a post-World War II situation where we take national sovereignty seriously.

01:36:09.820 We take borders seriously.

01:36:11.400 And this just goes to how radical some of the contentions are on immigration.

01:36:16.740 It's not just that borders don't have any legitimacy in terms of excluding people.

01:36:20.560 We have no right to be here ourselves.

01:36:23.700 It's a criticism of the United States of America at its foundations.

01:36:28.780 Charlie, Billie Eilish will never give back her mansion to the Tongva, nor will any of these Hollywood celebrities who try to lecture us or make us do a land acknowledgement before we can hear them perform, ever do such a gesture. 0.98

01:36:46.860 As stupid as her comments were, and they were made all the more so by the fact that for some reason she seemed to be wearing an academic gown of the sort you would expect the commencement speaker to wear. 0.99

01:36:58.120 But the thing that I... 1.00

01:37:00.280 It means you can identify it as anything.

01:37:01.760 I thought it looked like a domino.

01:37:03.040 It was odd, wasn't it?

01:37:04.060 But she clearly had just heard that sentence somewhere or seen it on a fortune cookie or something and decided to say it.

01:37:10.220 But I thought the more disturbing part was when the camera panned to the audience.

01:37:15.420 The expressions on their faces were so vacant.

01:37:20.360 There was this sort of...

01:37:21.420 Yes.

01:37:23.280 ...look in their eyes that honestly kind of worried me.

01:37:28.680 It was weird.

01:37:30.880 And I think as a result, we'll perhaps not take them too seriously because they're not going to do anything about it.

01:37:37.820 As Rich says, though, the core idea there is, if taken to its logical conclusion, exclusive of the sovereignty and authority of the United States government and all of the 50 states as well.

01:37:51.440 So while Billie Eilish might not worry me, those sentiments, when expressed from within the institutional left, as they often are and within academia, do.

01:38:02.100 Because if there is no such thing as an illegal person, then there's no such thing as a citizen.

01:38:06.880 And if there's no such thing as a citizen, then there's no such thing as a government because we live in a representative government and a constitutional republic.

01:38:13.940 So she hasn't thought it through. 0.97

01:38:16.620 It's very silly. 0.83

01:38:17.520 But it is actually quite destructive of everything else that we believe in. 0.64

01:38:22.280 And then if you look at the behavior in Minnesota, you can sort of see how one leads to the other.

01:38:28.380 Because if...

01:38:29.060 Oh, yeah.

01:38:29.500 Right.

01:38:29.780 Because if there is no such thing as an illegal person, well, then all immigration laws are illegitimate.

01:38:35.340 And there's nothing wrong with nullifying federal law.

01:38:37.820 And then you kind of get rid of everything we've built up.

01:38:41.760 Yes.

01:38:42.440 Okay.

01:38:42.720 Now, speaking of someone who hasn't thought it through, a couple years ago, this guy was in the news for getting married and Taylor Swift went to his wedding.

01:38:53.240 He's written a bunch of songs for her.

01:38:55.160 Apparently, he's a prolific songwriter and he's very well known in the music industry.

01:38:58.420 And his name is Jack Antonoff.

01:39:00.320 And he was there at the Grammys and he did have on one of those little ice out pins.

01:39:08.960 And unfortunately for Jack, he got asked about it.

01:39:13.080 And here's how that went.

01:39:14.740 Watch.

01:39:15.360 Can you talk to me a little bit about the pin that you're wearing tonight?

01:39:18.920 I mean...

01:39:20.200 Why is that important?

01:39:21.860 It's just terrible.

01:39:23.060 You know, I mean, it's time to...

01:39:26.540 It's just...

01:39:27.060 It's just...

01:39:27.940 For every reason you could imagine, I would think.

01:39:30.560 But, um...

01:39:31.780 Yeah.

01:39:33.300 I'm a bit speechless trying to even talk about it.

01:39:36.580 Yeah.

01:39:37.560 Absolutely.

01:39:38.180 It's, like, hard to talk about anything else at this point.

01:39:40.300 I get it.

01:39:40.980 But...

01:39:41.460 We can do both and find a way to...

01:39:45.780 I don't know.

01:39:46.900 It's just a really good time for people to come together and figure out how to move through this.

01:39:53.460 Because it's only going to be small communities that can really help.

01:39:58.760 Rich, he has no idea why he's wearing that.

01:40:03.000 A Greenland-related protest, maybe?

01:40:05.040 The ice in Greenland?

01:40:07.680 This is why...

01:40:09.120 That was amazing.

01:40:10.120 This is why I've written about this.

01:40:12.380 This is why so many of those people, when they complain, use the phrase, you know, with everything that's going on.

01:40:18.780 Because they don't know what's going on.

01:40:21.100 So, they've just heard there's something bad.

01:40:23.160 And they say it's very hard to talk about anything else with everything that's going on.

01:40:26.440 And then you ask what's going on.

01:40:27.720 And they say, you know, everything. 0.97

01:40:30.140 And then the moronic reporter, as opposed to realizing, oh, my God, this is actually a great moment. 0.96

01:40:34.440 I could actually really expose him. 0.98

01:40:36.520 She's like, oh, you know, like, who does have the words?

01:40:39.540 You know?

01:40:40.140 Neither of them know what it is, probably.

01:40:41.580 No, and of course, for the listening audience, he's wearing the ice out pin.

01:40:46.600 But normally, you put that on your lapel.

01:40:48.400 He has it weighed down on his, like, his hip pocket.

01:40:52.120 It's almost like he didn't even want to wear it.

01:40:55.260 But they were handing him out when you walked in.

01:40:56.980 He's like, okay, I guess I have to put this thing on.

01:40:59.480 And then had the misfortune of being asked about it.

01:41:04.860 It's like a skip from Arrested Development or something. 1.00

01:41:10.120 So dumb. 0.99

01:41:10.860 And honestly, Justin Bieber, I mentioned him. 1.00

01:41:13.640 He was out there with one of those pins yesterday.

01:41:15.600 Truly. 1.00

01:41:16.060 I mean, honestly, one of the dumbest people in public life. 0.99

01:41:19.220 He sings well. 0.99

01:41:20.240 I wouldn't take that away from him.

01:41:21.740 But for him, who was like a week ago in his tighty-whities doing a concert to try to lecture us,

01:41:27.520 we pulled a couple of pictures of Justin Bieber.

01:41:29.120 Because, like, when you see Justin Bieber walking around in these paparazzi shots,

01:41:32.500 where, like, literally the only part of him you can really see is just the little circle of his face

01:41:37.140 because he's covered in his sweatshirt from head to toe.

01:41:39.880 Or he's wearing his bizarre, I don't know what, like, Justin Bieber is kind of like a Britney Spears figure to me.

01:41:46.380 He's, like, kind of gone.

01:41:47.720 He became too big a star, too rich, at too early an age.

01:41:50.920 And now I don't, I mean, he's, like, probably about six months away from a conservatorship from the look of it.

01:41:55.260 Who now wants to lecture us on immigration policy, Rich.

01:42:00.400 Should we ask him, perhaps, about temporary protected status and the latest decision, which is based on alleged racial animus?

01:42:07.140 Yeah, it's a little bit like the French Revolution.

01:42:10.140 You had to wear a cockade to show you were with the revolutionaries.

01:42:12.660 And a lot of people just did it because they were scared or because everyone else was doing it or they're forced to do it.

01:42:18.420 I think at one point the king was wearing it because, you know, he's afraid of getting executed.

01:42:22.820 But, you know, there's an elite that decides what the cause is.

01:42:25.780 And these are all lemmings.

01:42:27.740 They, of course, pride themselves in their great independence of mind and courage.

01:42:32.520 But there's nothing of the sort.

01:42:33.780 They just do what everyone else thinks they're, they do what they're supposed to do and play act.

01:42:38.480 And a lot of them are, you know, actors.

01:42:40.000 And they sing the words put in front of them.

01:42:42.840 And this is just a version of that.

01:42:45.160 All right, guys.

01:42:45.960 I got to go.

01:42:46.900 But you guys tell me.

01:42:48.840 You've got my phone number.

01:42:50.160 Show me a text.

01:42:50.760 You tell me what you think I should ask Vice President J.D. Vance about in our sit down tomorrow.

01:42:56.940 Looking forward to this.

01:42:58.180 It'll be super fun.

01:42:59.020 It's going to air in the program tomorrow.

01:43:00.640 Definitely it's going to air tomorrow.

01:43:01.940 And we hope it'll air during our two-hour block on SiriusXM between 12 and 2.

01:43:06.920 Okay.

01:43:07.440 Charlie, Rich, thanks.

01:43:08.520 You guys are the best.

01:43:09.120 And we'll have full coverage of what's happening in the Nancy Guthrie case as well.

01:43:14.300 And for those of you listening, I would love your thoughts on what I should ask the Vice

01:43:19.100 President tomorrow as well.

01:43:20.780 You can email me, Megan, at MeganKelley.com.

01:43:25.340 Keep them pithy. 0.95

01:43:26.680 As O'Reilly used to say, keep it pithy, please.

01:43:29.320 Name in town if you wish to opine.

01:43:30.840 No, that's not really necessary.

01:43:32.400 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:43:34.660 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:43:36.580 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - February 03, 2026

Shock New Details About Guthrie Kidnapping, and Don Lemon's Absurd Kimmel Appearance, with Rich Lowry, Charles C.W. Cooke, Jim Fitzgerald, and Randy Sutton ｜ Ep. 1244

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