Shock New Details About Guthrie Kidnapping, and Don Lemon's Absurd Kimmel Appearance, with Rich Lowry, Charles C.W. Cooke, Jim Fitzgerald, and Randy Sutton ｜ Ep. 1244
It is a race against the clock in the search for Nancy Guthrie, mother of Today Show host Savannah Guthrie. This case is bizarre and disturbing, with law enforcement sources telling the Los Angeles Times that blood was found inside of her Arizona home alongside signs of forced entry, prompting detectives to investigate what they now describe as a, quote, "possible kidnapping or abduction." Fox News reports that their sources say, "Blood drops were also found leading from the entryway outside down the driveway toward the driveway."
00:01:26.260Fox News reporting this morning that their sources say, quote,
00:01:29.240blood drops were also found leading from the entryway outside down the house's pathway toward the driveway.
00:01:38.800So both inside the house and a trail leading across the entryway and into the driveway.
00:01:47.760During an interview with News Nation this morning, Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos would not confirm the reports of blood.
00:01:54.660But again, those earlier publications are citing law enforcement and said that the DNA results that they have tested so far
00:02:02.680have come back only belonging to Nancy.
00:02:06.360We're not confirming whether there was blood in the home or any of that.
00:02:10.400What we're saying is we do have evidence that we submitted to DNA labs actually through other sources that we use.
00:02:20.880And they have confirmed that the DNA that we found was, in fact, belonged to Nancy, Savannah's mom,
00:02:32.680which we were hopeful that it wouldn't, that it would give us a different profile than just hers.
00:02:39.040But that's where we're at with the DNA.
00:02:41.300We have other items that we submit for DNA research and see what that comes up.
00:02:46.820But that was the first submittal we got back.
00:02:50.560And we'll continue to wait for lab results, see if we find something else.
00:02:57.080So if those reports are real and accurate, Nancy Guthrie was bleeding.
00:03:04.700She was hurt somehow inside the house.
00:03:06.720She was bleeding as she was taken outside of the house.
00:03:09.820And so far, no DNA belonging to somebody else.
00:03:14.700That doesn't mean no one else was there.
00:03:16.780It just means no one else left DNA, at least not that they've found so far there.
00:03:20.980Although, you know, with touch DNA being what it is in today's day and age, let's just wait and see on that.
00:03:26.520I'm sure they did a comprehensive testing of all the surfaces and certainly anything that was near the blood trail to see whether they could get touch DNA.
00:03:36.780And was this person, if they actually took her, so careful, Brian Kohlberger-like, that every inch of their person was covered?
00:03:45.840But the sheriff confirmed that they are still waiting on the results of additional items that have been tested.
00:03:51.720Time remains crucial in this case, with the sheriff warning that if Nancy does not get certain medication within 24 hours, it could be fatal.
00:04:34.720You know, it's been better than 24 hours.
00:04:37.120And the family tells us if she doesn't have those meds, it can become fatal.
00:04:44.540Today's show host Savannah Guthrie posted on Instagram last night asking for prayers for her mother's safe return, writing, quote,
00:04:51.340We are expecting a press conference from local authorities to take place at 1.30 p.m. Eastern today.
00:05:10.820And just of note, before I bring in my panel, you heard the sheriff starting to sound a bit more dire now in the way he's talking about this.
00:05:30.220He didn't say she's dead, but he used it in a way that was kind of jarring and gave you a bit of a window, perhaps, into what his worries are, what he's thinking, maybe even what his opinion is.
00:06:31.020Obviously, he doesn't know, but he's seen the inside of the house in a way that none of us has.
00:06:36.020And he knows a lot more than he's saying.
00:06:38.360In fact, he's been, you know, clearly somebody and likely him because he's been the spokesperson for the office, told NBC about that blood and the L.A. Times and Fox News has it, too, about the blood droplets.
00:06:51.860But then sort of tried to walk it back, saying, if I were asked that by NBC now, I wouldn't confirm it.
00:06:56.800Well, OK, he seems like a very nice guy, but his messaging has been a little inconsistent from place to place.
00:07:02.860It seems clear that there was blood inside the house, that it was hers and that it led a trail right outside of the house, which is more than likely how they determined this is a crime scene.
00:07:16.380And this was not somebody who walked off of her own volition.
00:07:19.380Again, we're going to be having a presser in about an hour and a half, and we will bring you all the latest news from that as it unfolds.
00:07:25.840Joining me now in the meantime, James Fitzgerald, former FBI supervisory special agent and criminal profiler and host of the Code Red podcast, and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton.
00:07:38.160He's also founder of The Wounded Blue.
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00:09:11.200But clearly, they are taking this really, really seriously.
00:09:17.060They did call in the homicide section.
00:09:18.920That was very telling in and of itself.
00:09:21.560They did say that there was blood evidence and that they were treating it like a crime scene.
00:09:28.260They had the search and rescue team out there.
00:09:31.360They were doing physical search of the area with people on foot, using their drones, using their fixed-wing aircraft, their helicopters.
00:09:41.800They did mention that they were using their forward-looking infrared, which would have a heat signature should they find someone walking or someone laying down somewhere in the area.
00:09:54.920That would be an indication that Miss Guthrie was taken somewhere and is now not around that area because they did a pretty thorough search.
00:10:07.100Remember, stranger abductions are very, very rare.
00:10:10.380So there's going to be a—this is a massive investigation, and there's going to be a lot at play here.
00:10:17.400The Daily Mail, just as we came to air, actually citing Fox News for this, reporting that Miss Guthrie's pacemaker stopped sinking with her Apple Watch in the early hours of Sunday morning around 2 a.m.
00:10:31.260going from Saturday into Sunday, what they said was investigators told the outlet that Nancy's Apple Watch was left inside of her home.
00:10:41.500They write, which likely means the device stopped sinking.
00:10:53.900It means she, with her pacemaker, was taken too far away from the Apple Watch for it to sink any longer.
00:11:00.160And that happened around 2 a.m., which would be a very good investigative piece of information, Jim.
00:11:06.760Yeah, I've worked a few cases even in retirement of homicides where these Apple Watches or similar watches, if they're found on the victim or certainly through the technology, through the cloud, whatever,
00:11:17.880they can really help determine not only movement and locations but also time of death.
00:11:23.600I suppose it makes forensic pathologist jobs a little bit easier in that way in terms of determining that.
00:11:30.360But to go back to the sheriff, many times in the FBI, when we were working these real-time cases, we would be, as a profiler, we would be consulting with the spokespersons for different departments.
00:11:42.380And we would not tell them what to say, of course, but we would certainly guide them and do certain language usages.
00:11:49.540And especially as a linguist, I determine even better along the years how to do this.
00:11:54.200And you don't want to be inflammatory.
00:11:55.620You don't want to be overly accusatory.
00:11:58.120You want to almost make it sound like, look, maybe someone made a mistake here, one or more people, and just, you know, drop the person off, leave them go.
00:12:05.740Sometimes as kids, as you would know, Megan, or teenagers, it's not too often we get 84-year-old people like this.
00:12:12.040The blood is not a good sign either, whether it was arterial bleeding, meaning it's much more serious or not.
00:12:18.820So she's obviously in some level of danger, but hopefully the people who are, in fact, have her in custody, taking care of her, know this and are keeping her alive.
00:12:29.920And I'll add to you, too, Megan, that whoever has done this are listening to us.
00:12:36.080I don't mean us personally at this very moment, but they are following the media on this.
00:12:40.280If you have even a modicum of sophistication to you when committing these types of crimes, you're going to be following the media to find out what they know and get everything possible to help protect yourself and carry out the crime.
00:12:53.940And let's hope that's all they want to do is carry out the crime, get some money, and perhaps move on from there and not harm her.
00:13:00.740Randy, what do you make of the fact that yesterday the sheriff started off with a presser in the morning where he offered some detail, and then as the day went on, seemed to be amping up his messaging around this, using the word kidnapping, using the word taken, abducted.
00:13:20.080And obviously, I mean, I think it was him who leaked the stuff about the blood to the L.A. Times and possibly Fox, because he's been the main spokesperson.
00:13:29.700I'm just assuming. I could be wrong. But in any event, we saw more and more of him.
00:13:34.220I mean, I saw him everywhere. He was on CBS. He was on ABC. He was on NBC. He was on Fox. He was with Ashley Banfield.
00:13:39.960He was with some other podcasts. Like, clearly, he made the decision to try to get out anywhere and everywhere that asked for him.
00:13:46.200Yeah. And the terms that he used did escalate from he was he was catching his terms a little bit more diplomatically during his press conference.
00:13:58.940But as the day went on, there were more and more details that leaked out.
00:14:34.880I'm hesitant to be too critical of him, but I've seen much more professional, you know, individuals be giving out information when it comes down to a serious issue like this.
00:14:48.060I mean, I would imagine if what they really need is press coverage, which clearly they've made a decision they need press coverage.
00:14:57.920It won't be long now before we hear from Savannah, because if there's one person involved in this case who can get the media to run a soundbite on every single television station there is and to be quoted in all the newspapers, it's Savannah Guthrie.
00:15:13.420But what a terrible position for her to have to be in to, you know, have to come out in front of the cameras and make a comment right now when she doesn't know what's happened to her mother.1.00
00:15:41.700This is a low risk victim, probably as low as you can get in terms of her everyday activities, her behavior, and even the environment in which she lives, where she travels.
00:15:51.140And of course, her physical condition, which is not the best in terms of mobility, etc.
00:15:57.240So we want to find out everything about her in that regard.
00:16:00.180And of course, expanding that, it's everyone she knows, of course, family, friends, interview, all of them go through emails, text messaging, such as that.
00:16:09.280But then to then really hone in on who have been guests in her house in the last month plus, obviously, family and friends will know about those.
00:16:23.700Salesmen just randomly knocking on doors.
00:16:25.880And even those people, maybe plumbers or HVAC guys, they may be legitimate and have nothing to do with this, but they have friends and those friends talk to friends.
00:16:37.860So that sort of all has to be worked out exponentially to find out everyone who's been in or near that house.
00:16:43.660These people didn't wake up at noon on Saturday and say, let's go out and kidnap Mrs. Guthrie.0.99
00:16:49.100I'm saying these people, even though she's an older woman, you'd probably want someone to back you up, drive the van, the car, SUV, whatever, and then have someone else go in.1.00
00:17:09.820What kind of a risk averse person is she?1.00
00:17:14.280Would she open the door for a stranger?
00:17:16.040These are things her family and friends can tell.
00:17:17.920So that's what we first want to do to find out everything about her, all her goings on for the last month or so, emails, social media, all those type things.
00:18:11.940You know, this is he's been thrust into the national spotlight in a way he didn't anticipate.
00:18:15.040But you do have to give him like a day or two to find out whether he's going to stick with the message that he delivered at the presser or in these interviews.
00:18:24.220But again, he's just trying to get the word out and get attention drawn to this.
00:18:27.320So we don't right now know whether she was snatched from her bed or whether it was the scenario like you just outlined, Jim,
00:18:32.520where maybe they rang the doorbell and she came down and they grabbed her.0.97
00:18:36.220I mean, what we do know, Randy, is that the sheriff said she cannot walk more than 50 yards herself.
00:18:42.100Like she's infirm physically, but not mentally at all.
00:18:46.060And that would mean that somebody would have to either take her or, quote, help her get out of the house and get into a car.0.86
00:18:58.760Potentially she saw we saw her with a cane on the set of the Today Show.1.00
00:19:02.340So she clearly used a cane and I'm sure she was slow going and they'd have to have pulled a car right up to that door.1.00
00:19:11.860They would have had to pull the car if they know this woman's on a cane and she can't move well and she's fighting.1.00
00:19:16.900You know, she's at the point where she's potentially bleeding.1.00
00:19:19.420Don't you think they would have had to have a car right up there in her driveway?0.86
00:19:23.800Absolutely. And they're in one of in one of the reports.
00:19:27.700And, you know, as this dripped and drabbed information came out, there was a mention of forced entry.
00:19:36.880That was one of the things that was said.
00:19:39.800And so I was hopeful that when I heard that and then the droplets of blood, I was really hopeful that those droplets of blood might belong to the suspect.
00:19:49.100We might have cut themselves when breaking a window or something like that.
00:19:52.780That that hope has been dashed because they did confirm that that DNA belonged to the victim here.
00:19:59.620So unfortunately, what about touch DNA, Randy?
00:20:02.800You know, it's like now we've got touch DNA.
00:20:08.240And this is one of the beautiful, beautiful things about the cooperation with the FBI.
00:20:12.320They are unparalleled with their forensic abilities and and seeing that they were called into the scene early on.
00:20:20.820They have tremendous assets at their disposal.
00:20:24.400So they they but it takes time for that DNA evidence to to surface.
00:20:30.700And then and then, of course, you know, DNA databases aren't aren't, you know, it's not like the fingerprint database where everybody that's been arrested as has DNA out there.
00:20:42.120Well, and on top of that, if it's we have to factor in the possibility that this is somebody from Mexico, since it's only, you know, an hour away from the southern border.
00:20:50.340And would we have, you know, if it's not an American, potentially, would we have DNA in the way we do for most Americans linked at least, you know, maybe 10 times removed.
00:21:00.920But most of us are in there now, thanks to some distant relative who's gone to these DNA databases and given their blood.
00:21:07.900But, Jim, it's an interesting question about DNA and the FBI's help.
00:21:11.180And also, we know it's been reported that the FBI is using its cell phone towers, its triangulation, you know, how it can check the towers to see what phones were in the area at a certain time.
00:21:24.800So now the 2 a.m. info is very helpful.
00:21:27.980And unlike the three of us, the FBI almost certainly has Nancy's actual phone and they can see what time she put it down.
00:21:37.560They can tell what time you went to bed.
00:21:38.840They can tell us certainly what time you stopped texting people, what time you went offline on it.
00:21:43.860So if they can probably put the time to within maybe even, you know, a couple of minutes of when she got taken.
00:21:50.460And then they use those cell phone towers to see which phones may have been in the area.
00:21:55.200I mean, that ultimately that's how they caught the D.C. pipe bomber or so they tell us.
00:21:59.240What do you make of those potential leads?
00:22:01.280Oh, sure. All of that is very important.
00:22:02.840And I assure you, as Randy was saying, there's a task force already assembled in the Tucson area of multiple agencies.
00:22:09.220I know Border Patrol is involved, certainly FBI, Tucson Police Sheriff's Department and no doubt the state police.
00:22:16.660And they're all working together on this.
00:22:18.140And I know I don't know for a fact, but I can I can tell you that people from Quantico, the FBI laboratory are there in position now.
00:22:26.300And they're running through all these aspects you just described.
00:22:29.240Don't forget all the surveillance cameras up and down the streets of Tucson, tag recognition software, facial recognition software.
00:22:39.060They're going to have to, you know, grab it, of course, for that night, everything they can for those few hours before and after, you know, 2 a.m.
00:22:47.580Jim, would the fact that it might have been done at 2 a.m. be helpful because there's going to be less traffic, fewer license plates to read and try to identify on the highway right around?
00:23:03.340And I mean, the benefit to the bad guys is that it's dark under the cover of darkness, all that they can get away with it.
00:23:09.500The bad news from a forensic and technology perspective is there's going to be fewer people out there to, in fact, you know, correlate or collate the different tags that are running back and forth and going, you know, in whatever direction.
00:23:22.800And this will be expanded by 50 miles to 100 miles in concentric circles, which would take us right to that Mexican border.
00:23:29.280And by the way, these kidnappings, as Randy said earlier, they don't happen in the U.S.
00:23:49.460And I'm just wondering if there's been a ransom demand already, but that's not being released.
00:23:54.420And we, you know, some criticism perhaps justified of the sheriff, but maybe they're sitting on something that we, I'm sure they're sitting on a lot we don't know.
00:24:01.580Is it possible there's a ransom demand?
00:24:03.480If there's no ransom demand, then what's the purpose of this?
00:24:42.960He could be, could be misleading for everyone's protection.
00:24:45.720But for whatever it's worth on the record, he denied that there had been a ransom demand.
00:24:49.840But you tell me, Randy, I, there's just no way in my lay person's view, they didn't take her because she's related to Savannah Guthrie.
00:25:00.920I mean, what are the odds that this is just some caper where they've kidnapped an 84 year old woman who just so happens to be the mother of one of the biggest news stars in America?
00:25:11.860Like that just, that does not track to me.
00:25:14.020Well, in law enforcement, we don't believe in coincidences and I don't believe in that coincidence either.
00:25:23.780You know, her daughter is very, very high profile.
00:25:26.180And, and, you know, Jim was talking about victimology, highly critically important in, in this type of investigation.
00:25:33.620But the victimology is going to have to now expand to include the daughter because they're going to be looking into any threats, any, any type of past occurrences that might lead to some type of, of a grudge.
00:25:52.020You know, you know, there, there's, there's people out there in the world and you and I both know that they, they aren't playing with a full deck and, and, and there, there are people that, that, you know, concentrate on, on a, on an individual and they become, you know, so incredibly attuned to them that they, they view themselves as being related to them or a love interest or anything like that.
00:26:23.460You can't, you can't discount anything here.
00:26:25.960And that's what makes this such a, a, a, a very, very difficult investigation.
00:26:30.920And it's, it's going to require, um, all of the resources at play here.
00:26:36.360And I, and I just, as the time ticks by here, Megan, I'm, I'm really concerned as time ticks by the chances of survival are diminishing, uh, literally by the hour.
00:26:48.920I, I, I'm just trying to figure out, you know, why, why would you do this?
00:26:55.480You know, Jim, I'm, I'm thinking in, we talked to Matt Murphy, a longtime federal prosecutor yesterday, and he was saying, you know, forgive me, but don't rule out a possible sex crime because he's prosecuted cases where 79 year old women were raped and attacked.
00:27:13.880And, and so sadly that made some sense, but one would think that if that were to happen, she would have been left there or if she'd been killed afterward that she'd be left there.
00:27:27.340I don't know. Um, it's strange that they took her like they, they clearly took her.
00:27:34.020And I suppose you could make the case that if they killed her in the house, forgive me for this kind of speculation, but we're all wondering what happened.
00:27:42.420That, that also could explain the pacemaker no longer communicating with the Apple watch at 2 AM.
00:27:48.780You know, that's the other possibility of why the, the, the, the sinking stopped.
00:27:53.500Well, this was a high risk crime to go to the door, grab the woman and do anything with her.
00:27:58.920Uh, it, it, it increases a hundred fold by putting her in a car and driving away with her.
00:28:10.980Now, whether she's in the trunk, she has duct tape around her, you know, I'm just speculating here also, we don't know.
00:28:16.800Um, but the, the, the, the reason to be fine, I agree with Randy, this is not coincidence.
00:28:21.800They knew she was the daughter of this, uh, this prominent news person in the U S worth, worth some money.
00:28:27.620I'm sorry, the mother, uh, uh, and her daughter was of course the newscaster and, and, and, and, and if, if money is not a factor, then it has to go back to some personal issue.
00:28:37.400And there has been research done over the years.
00:28:39.540Of course, there are some men out there who get kicks out of sex, uh, with much older women.
00:28:46.180And the research was the older, the women, uh, the younger, the offender.0.97
00:29:23.400Do you know, Jim, is they brought dogs in all sorts of dogs.
00:29:27.020And I'm, I'm just assuming they brought both rescue dogs, you know, bloodhounds and also cadaver dogs.
00:29:32.760But would a cadaver dog get a hit if a person had only been dead in the house for a half an hour?
00:29:40.300I think, and, and, and Randy can perhaps discuss this too, but cadaver dogs are so well-trained, uh, and, and they have such an expertise.
00:29:47.600I mean, and there's some dogs even better than others, but I think they could pick up the scent, whether recently dead, dead in the house or, or, uh, or, or, you know, down the line somewhere.
00:29:57.200But I, I believe a dog, a cadaver dog, well-trained with a proper, you know, uh, master, if you will, or, or trainer, uh, they would find the remains if they're somewhere in the area.
00:30:08.980Because Randy, the, the, the, the one thing from that sheriff is he, he's not talking like she was killed in the house.
00:30:16.260He's, he's, he clearly doesn't know whether she's alive or dead right now, but he's not talking like he thinks she was killed in the house.
00:30:23.140He did bring in homicide detectives right away, but like there's an urgency to him and him covering the field with the press yesterday afternoon suggests he, he thinks there's still time to save her.
00:30:32.800Yeah. And if that is, uh, that's all correlation to what they found at the crime scene.
00:30:38.880I remember very early on, they did, they did, uh, couch this as a crime scene and they talked about droplets of blood, you know, later on, um, when, when a body, when a killing takes place, a murder takes place, it is, it is, uh, it is very messy.
00:30:56.880Okay. You know, uh, whether it's from blunt, uh, you know, trauma for, uh, you know, hitting someone with an object, if it's a stabbing, if it's a shooting, it is, um, it leaves, it leaves a lot of evidence around.
00:31:11.520And so when he talks about that, it was a crime scene and that they found evidence and especially the droplets that indicates to me that, um, that there was not a major crime scene found here, that there was not, um, a pool of blood or if you will, or, or tissue or things like that.
00:31:31.320And that would be, that would, I mean, if you look at all the different ways that, that, um, that a body can lose, you know, its life, it's from, it's, it's from blunt, uh, trauma, it's from gunshots, it's from stabbings, it's from strangulation, but, um, but generally it's going to leave, it's going to leave a lot of forensic evidence behind.
00:31:52.860And there's been no indication that there was a major scene found here.
00:31:57.520Uh, I think, I think that probably would have been something that, that would have been, uh, that would have been told.
00:32:03.740And then they would have changed the way the sheriff sounds when he's, when he's talking, you know, Jim, the, um, there's a possibility that they did kidnap an alive Nancy Guthrie and that she did pass after the kidnapping.
00:32:20.000I mean, good God, I think about my own mom who's the same age and I don't know if my mom could handle that.
00:32:27.180You know, like, I don't know if her heart could handle that, that sort of trauma.
00:32:30.360And poor Nancy Guthrie had the pacemaker, was on some sort of medication that they said she needs every 24 hours or it could be fatal.1.00
00:32:38.980And I guess that's a possibility that could explain why we haven't had a ransom.
00:32:43.980Well, a few things here, Megan, and good points.
00:32:46.700Uh, the, the minimal blood and it's, it's too much of course for anyone, but the minimal blood of the scene could have been used a, a, a form of a control early on slap across the face, punch to the nose.
00:32:58.680And that's where that blood came from just to get her to cooperate or get her limp and bring her out to the car.1.00
00:33:04.580And I hate to be this graphic, but let me go back, uh, in time to when I was an FBI agent in New York city, right across the river was the Exxon executive, uh, who was kidnapped, uh, from right outside of his door.
00:33:17.140His name was Sidney Riso and a high ranking, uh, Exxon executive.
00:33:21.600And it turns out he was put in the box, taken away back of a van, then eventually put in a box, put in the pine barrens.
00:33:27.940He died, but the husband and wife team still carried through on the attempt to get the ransom.
00:33:33.980And eventually within a few days to a week, they were identified and arrested and they took, uh, they took FBI agents to the body.
00:33:40.820So I, and I, I don't want to make this predictive or is something that we know it's going to happen in this particular case, but with older people, uh, the stress and the strain of a forced kidnapping.0.96
00:33:52.420I mean, think about it, your mother yourself.
00:33:56.740Uh, you know, even above 50 years of age, uh, it could be very, very traumatic.
00:34:01.460And, and if you already have preexisting medical conditions, pacemaker, as she does, you're not getting the meds.
00:34:07.000It only exacerbates all the problems that can go wrong.
00:34:10.360Um, but there have been, my point is here, there have been kidnapped victims who have died and the kidnapper said, well, you know, we did what we did.
00:34:20.480Of course, I'm hoping they would add the family would ask for a proof of life.
00:34:23.780The old days, they would hold a newspaper up with the current headline to show that they're alive.
00:34:28.100Uh, nowadays with technology, you can do it different ways, but there's also AI, which can make them look like they're alive and they're not.
00:34:36.040So I'm just hoping I'm going to be positive here that she's alive and the kidnapper just finding a way to either release her, get the money for her, then release her and go from there.
00:34:44.780But does it, since we're all on the same page that none of us here thinks that this was coincidental, that, you know, it just so happened.
00:34:52.320They, they targeted an 84 year old who was Savannah Guthrie's mom.0.66
00:34:56.700Um, it does make it so it back to your theory.
00:35:01.400It's so it's either for money potentially, or to punish her for a report, potentially raw speculation with no support, but possibly there was some report she did.
00:35:10.320I'm sure the FBI is combing through all of her recent reporting for, you know, the today show, any in-depth interview she did when I would imagine they're looking at all of that.
00:35:22.080But I also wonder, like, you tell me, wouldn't somebody that high profile be a huge risk for kidnappers, even south of the border kidnappers where it's more frequent?
00:35:34.840Like, you gotta know, if you go for a woman like that, it's gonna be on every television station in the country and the heat is gonna be really, really high, which I feel like would be a deterrent.0.99
00:35:49.140Like, maybe that's an argument against them knowing who this was.
00:35:53.140Either of you guys have thoughts on that?
00:35:57.280Um, when you look at the, uh, high profile nature of this, uh, you know, I, I would venture to guess that, uh, most of America is now aware of this situation and they're not operating in a vacuum, right?
00:36:12.800They, they have a landlord, whoever took this, whoever took this woman, they don't live in a vacuum.
00:36:18.860They, they have a life, they have, uh, relatives, they have friends, uh, they have, uh, business associates.
00:36:24.760They, they have, uh, they have an area that they need to cover.
00:36:28.480Um, so it, it's really, it's really, um, worrisome that, that they have taken this, this, uh, uh, action.
00:36:39.200Megan, if I may add, what do you think, Jim?
00:36:41.360Willie Sutton used to say, he was asked, why do you rob banks?
00:37:39.700We don't know this is a kidnapping for profit yet.
00:37:41.820They're very, very rare in the U S but 65 miles from the Mexican border.
00:37:46.420It certainly can't be ruled out, but where's that ransom note or ransom demand that we're waiting to hear about.
00:37:52.440And like cartels, you know, are, we've been ramping up our efforts against them.
00:37:58.740You know, it's not, it's not Mexico, it's America, it's, it's Tucson, Arizona, but it's very close.
00:38:04.540And, you know, you've got to factor in what's happening down there.
00:38:07.380Speaking of possible politics, uh, the white house just put out a post on X about it.
00:38:13.060That reads as follows the search for Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie is ongoing and authorities are requesting assistance from the public.
00:38:21.520Anyone with information is urged to contact 9-1-1.
00:38:24.340Our prayers are with the Guthrie family as we hope for Nancy safe return home.
00:39:02.040It was very dark and we were also told that this is an, a neighborhood with like mostly elderly people reportedly, Randy, that, you know, it's one of those sleepy retirement communities from the sound of it, this particular area where she lived.
00:39:15.860But with a house that's a million dollars, that's got acreage around it.
00:39:22.700You're going to have to have groundskeepers.
00:39:25.320You're going to have to have most likely a maid or a maid service that comes in.1.00
00:39:29.240And you're probably going to have somebody who comes in and helps you with your meals.
00:39:33.960You know, I mean, if Savannah was taking care of her mom in any way close to the way I take care of mom, my mom, I'm sure she had all of those things, you know, because she's, both of our moms were widowed at very young ages and didn't have a husband to do any of that.
00:39:48.880And even an 84-year-old husband is not totally capable of doing all that.
00:39:54.020So would you imagine that's where they're going to start?
00:39:56.560Not to blame the staff, but look, the odds are that close to Mexico, you're going to have a fair amount of people who are volunteering for those roles.
00:40:06.160And I don't know, I feel like if I were a cop, that's where I'd start.
00:40:08.300There's absolutely no doubt that that is paramount in the investigative process here.
00:40:14.580And I spoke to a law enforcement officer yesterday who has jurisdiction down there.
00:40:21.000Just tell me about this, about the area.
00:40:31.120If you're even going out for a walk, then you're going to be straining.
00:40:38.500So yeah, the surrounding area would be inhospitable for any length of walking.
00:40:46.540That's why when Jim talked about a vehicle being utilized at the outset, there's absolutely no doubt that that was a mode of transportation that will play a key role here.
00:40:57.980But you did hone in on something critically important, and that is the people who work there, who would be most familiar with the property, who would be most familiar with the actions and the scheduling of the victim here.
00:41:14.240So yeah, they will not only look at them, but they will look at everyone that they know.
00:41:18.660Because remember, nothing happens in a vacuum.
00:41:24.400There's conversations that take place between friends and relatives.
00:41:30.200So you can bet that the landscapers, that the maid, whoever was working over there, and just like Jim said earlier, was a plumber there earlier in the week.0.93
00:41:39.340Every one of these people has to be vetted, and they're going to have to undergo some serious questioning.
00:41:45.480I mean, I was thinking about it, because like, again, if her mom's anything like my mom, she was shouting from the rooftops about her well-known daughter.
00:41:55.280I mean, I was a kid, my mom, when I go home to visit her, will go out to eat, and she'll say, stand up so people can see who you are.
00:42:02.400It's like, you know, it's vicarious, you know, and affection, and she enjoys telling people that.
00:42:07.740But it can be potentially dangerous, and I'm sure that Nancy Guthrie had pictures of Savannah all over her home, so she wouldn't even have to shout it from the rooftops for somebody who had been in there as a service personnel, as, you know, a temporary worker, what have you.
00:42:56.780He said, he actually, I think he said there were not cameras inside, but there were outside.
00:43:02.420And then there was a report today that they had, when he talked to Ashley, he said, I'm hoping that we can find the data on the cloud, but if not, then from the manufacturer, like the service provider.
00:43:14.820And then today it hit that there is no cloud database for these cameras.
00:43:19.880So now they're dependent on whoever maintains the cameras.
00:43:24.180And I suppose we also have to wonder whether the cameras were on and operational and not just for show or the contract lapsed.
00:43:33.460You know, there's also, just because there's a camera doesn't mean it was on.
00:43:53.340I mean, lesson learned here for a $99 investment and $99 a year subscription, get a security system.
00:44:00.120Whether you're wealthy or your daughter's wealthy and famous or not, you know, that's an idea for everyone out there.
00:44:06.400And look, it's very likely, again, I'm not going to paint whoever took Mrs. Guthrie as a criminal mastermind, one or more people, but they probably had enough common sense to know whether in advance whether there was a camera system or not.
00:44:20.560Because that would be a dead giveaway.
00:44:21.860They know the police, the first thing they would look at is the ring camera, blink camera, whatever it is, and try to get information off of that.
00:44:28.420So they either knew how to disable that, or they knew in advance it wasn't operational, or perhaps in advance they disabled the system there.
00:44:37.920So, because so far we're not getting any breaks there.
00:44:40.860I think it's going to come down to other cameras, you know, from other neighbors' houses, even down the street.
00:44:46.860There had to be an ingress and egress to that property, east, west, north, south, whatever direction it is.
00:44:52.340Whether they came back the same way they went, of course, we don't know.
00:44:54.920But every single camera system along that way has to be looked at.
00:44:58.660And, Megan, you said very early on in our talk today that, you know, at 2 a.m., I don't know what time the bars close in that area,
00:45:04.880but, I mean, you will think the roads are a lot less crowded at 2 a.m. on a Sunday morning than certainly 2 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon.
00:45:52.620And they can pick up tags and they can look at them, retrieve them, and archive them for days, weeks afterwards, depending on the department.
00:45:59.000So there are always – yeah, it's going to be a Herculean task.
00:46:02.300And I tell you, whether because she's a famous – the mother of a famous person or not, that can be a whole different discussion.
00:46:08.580But there is going to be a large task force here.
00:46:11.520We're at least at dozens of people now, maybe approaching 100, bringing people in from all over the country,
00:46:17.440certainly on the federal level, to help out on this case.
00:46:20.480And they're going to be – just like with the Boston bomber back in 2012, I think it was, you know,
00:46:25.700all the video they were going through then, they eventually found the two brothers.
00:46:29.860And these things – and with the Idaho killer, they made a car stop on him somewhere in the Midwest when he was driving back with his father.
00:46:37.720That was plate recognition software that got him at least pulled over then.
00:47:22.120I don't know whether that means they think the bad guys took out the camera, right?
00:47:28.020Like, I mean, that would certainly track with what they're saying, Randy, evidence of foul play, including – they've said like around the door, like around – they think there was a breaking and entering.
00:47:39.280You know, so like it's possible – I mean, if this person actually knew enough to go like take out the ring camera or the Nest camera before they went in there, that's – I don't know.
00:48:11.620So – but it does show the nefariousness of this, that – it's interesting that it's coming out now that that ring camera was removed, not just disabled, it was removed.
00:48:25.180And the question that, of course, I have is, is that – because the sheriff mentioned something about a search warrant yesterday when he was referring to the security footage.
00:48:36.980You know, I'm not familiar enough with the ring camera to know whether that information was, you know, centralized somewhere within the ring system.
00:48:48.820I know that, you know, to access it from your device, you know, generally speaking, it's your phone, you know, that you can go back and you can see what took place.
00:49:00.740So that's – but that's a critical component now that that's been released, that it just brings more and more attention to the fact that this was a planned abduction and this was not a crime of passion.
00:49:15.220This was something that was planned, that was – you know, that was – and I agree with Jim, too.
00:49:24.240And – but here's where that plays a role.
00:49:28.300You know, we all know that if you want to keep a secret, you got to kill the other person, right?
00:49:33.540So the fact that we believe that there is more than one person involved could lead to a, you know, an ability to solve this through some information that might surface from that.
00:49:53.900This is just in on what to expect at 1.30.
00:49:57.860Per a spokesperson at the Presser, later this morning, Sheriff Nanos is expected to talk about some of the evidence recovered at the Guthrie home to clarify what steps are being taken in the investigation and to address information regarding a potential vehicle of interest.
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00:54:10.900He's editor-in-chief of National Review and Charles C.W. Cook, senior writer for National Review and host of the Charles C.W. Cook podcast.
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00:54:42.720Well, I didn't because it's just an assumption between us at this point that we wait for her take and then we both echo it and usually incorporate it into National Review's editorial line.
00:54:56.580If only someday you could actually get her so you didn't have to go through this farce.
01:15:51.340The only point at which the federal government gets to pass laws and enforce laws that protect civil rights is when the local laws are not enforced.
01:16:00.800That was true in the 1960s in the South, and it's true in Minnesota in 2026.
01:16:08.120And that's why I say it doesn't matter, because the left often thinks that unless the victims of a crime are African-Americans in the 60s, then civil rights don't apply.
01:19:08.780And this judge has said, and this is the same judge who said that Trump wasn't allowed to say transgender people can't serve in the military,
01:19:17.160and she was reversed for a hysterical opinion she issued there.
01:19:21.440And now she's at it again, saying Trump, as the sitting commander in chief, does not have the power to remove with his pen what Joe Biden granted with his.
01:19:30.440And on and on, you can hear the woman's ideology, Angela, Anna Reyes is her name, Federal District Court of Washington,
01:19:38.820where she says, there's a, there's a hostility to non-white immigrants that Kristi Noem has shown.
01:19:48.420She goes on to say, the government has not cited any reason to end temporary protected status for Haitians abruptly.
01:19:54.440And its approach is not in the public interest, she's decided.
01:19:57.520Quote, the government does not cite any reason termination must occur post-haste.
01:20:02.800Secretary Noem complains of strains that unlawful immigrants place on our immigration enforcement system.
01:20:58.240And this is a version of that made even worse by the fact that this is temporary protected status with emphasis on temporary, which means eventually it's supposed to go away and be reversed.
01:21:08.520Look, I don't think it's a bad situation for these Haitians.
01:21:11.880You had an administration letting them in with the assumption, oh, you get to stay forever.
01:21:15.120That's the way temporary protected statuses very often work.
01:21:18.160But under the law, Trump obviously can revoke it.
01:21:21.980And this just goes to the broader aspect of this whole immigration debate over the last year where the left and Democrats and Biden, they created facts on the ground by letting a bunch of people in, either legally kind of laundering people who otherwise wouldn't get in through these various means, the CPB app or this TPS status for Haitians and others, or just let them flood in and give them a notice to appear that it's going to be ignored.
01:21:47.900And then when Trump comes in and says, OK, I'm going to revoke the temporary status, I'm going to end CPP, I'm going to go after and deport these people, they're like, no, you can't do that.
01:21:59.940And a big problem are Hollywood celebrities, folks in Minneapolis, they now take it as a given that the status quo of ignoring the law, the black and white letter of the law was a status quo such as that it's an intolerable act of aggression if someone actually dares to do what the law says should be done.
01:22:20.620You detain the illegal immigrants until their proceedings reach a final conclusion, and if they can stay fine, if they go, you deport them.1.00
01:22:28.220That's what it says in the law, and Trump's offense here is just trying to actually apply the law for a change.
01:22:34.400I mean, now we have a pair of rulings over the past 72 hours.
01:22:38.960This one we discussed yesterday a bit with Jonathan Turley, the one from the judge in Texas, who decided that the little boy and his dad who were arrested by Border Patrol in Minneapolis and shipped down getting ready for removal back to their native country, that he had to be released.
01:22:58.860They both had to be released and finished his opinion with a picture of the little boy in the dog hat with the wrong date, said it was dated February 31st, was lecturing and sanctimonious throughout the opinion.
01:23:16.440I mean, speaking of Scalia, Charlie, he would be horrified at the attempts to legislate from the bench we are seeing these days.
01:23:24.260Yeah, that second opinion you mentioned was honestly one of the most unhinged things I've ever read from a judge, to the point at which I initially thought it had been faked.
01:23:32.600The February 31st made me wonder if it was a joke.
01:23:36.820That was not law, and he's not a judge.
01:23:42.360The annoying part of this, I think, is that these decisions are given the imprimatur of law.
01:23:51.680And so those who favor them can say, look, the Trump administration once again has been struck down by a judge.
01:24:03.860But what is conspicuously missing from the first case we were discussing, the Judge Reyes case with temporary protected status, is any specific references to the statute.
01:24:19.280Now, I am, as you know, a big critic of the way that Congress has, over the years, delegated powers to the president.
01:24:27.240There are far too many laws, in my view, that say, in the judgment of the president or in the estimation of the secretary,
01:24:34.020or that just hand sweeping powers that were reserved to Congress to the president.
01:24:38.840But Congress has done that, and it's done that a lot in the area of immigration.
01:24:44.380And one of the things that it has allowed the president to do, for example, is determine if there are any countries from which immigrants might pose a threat.
01:24:56.560Another thing that Congress has allowed the president to do is determine whether or not people deserve temporary protected status,
01:25:04.000and when that temporary protected status stops.
01:25:07.220The laws here aren't particularly complicated.
01:25:09.260They don't say the president has to file a report that meets 17 different criteria.
01:25:14.940They say in the public interest, they say in the judgment of the president.
01:25:18.280And the Supreme Court has historically treated this area as non-justiciable.
01:25:24.360That is to say that the Supreme Court does not decide whether or not the president's judgment was correct, only whether or not he got to make it.
01:25:32.360This isn't like the tariffs area, where it is much more cabined.
01:25:36.340So Joe Biden was allowed to determine that Haiti and Haitians qualified for temporary protected status, and Joe Biden did.
01:25:46.320And Donald Trump is allowed to say that they no longer do.
01:25:50.240If, I think it would be silly, but if Donald Trump tomorrow said,
01:25:54.460Britain is such a mess, that the British are entitled to temporary protected status,1.00
01:26:00.980no judge could say that that was wrong, and no judge could say that a subsequent president who made the opposite determination was wrong either.
01:26:09.900We've already had a Supreme Court case that is almost identical to this one.
01:26:14.680We know what the Supreme Court, this Supreme Court, thinks about this matter.
01:26:43.920If they were, she'd have a point, but they're not.
01:26:45.960So he gets to do this in the way Biden got to do it, and the judges do not get to second-guess him unless there is a law that says to the contrary.
01:26:57.320This is the second time now that she's tried to overturn a decision by Trump or his secretary, thanks to, quote, animus.
01:27:07.680The trans opinion she issued was all about his alleged animus and Pete Hexas alleged animus towards trans people.
01:27:14.260This one's all about the alleged animus of Kristi Noem to people from third-world countries.
01:27:20.560And they quote her saying stuff similar to what Trump has said.
01:27:23.900Like, I don't think she used the term shithole countries, but she came close.1.00
01:27:27.680Like, we just don't want these people here anymore.
01:27:29.960They leech off of us, and they're out.
01:27:32.040And she's using that to say this is a racial animus that's motivating this.
01:27:36.760Meanwhile, good luck with that if they actually do look at it.
01:27:39.240I mean, Trump very clearly wants to stop these immigrants from everywhere.
01:27:43.540I mean, look what he did at the southern border.
01:27:46.220He doesn't want anybody here on temporary protected status.
01:27:49.140Like, I don't know if there's another example of a group of white immigrants from, like, Denmark who he's allowing.
01:27:55.820They probably got shipped off to Greenland by Trump anyway in a dog sled.
01:28:02.780She's an activist, and she's using her own priors to try to sweep Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump all under this, you know, you're full of hatred banner.1.00
01:28:11.940And she's going to have to get her hand slapped again by the Supreme Court.1.00
01:29:10.300It's not like people are getting high off of ivermectin.
01:29:12.780You know, like, they want it because they're traveling, they don't want to have to wait, but they treat it like it's like some sort of contraband.
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01:29:47.180You've seen those red light panels, right?
01:34:09.060They have issued the following statement.
01:34:10.720We appreciate the opportunity to provide clarity regarding the recent comments made by Billie Eilish.
01:34:14.560As the first people of the greater Los Angeles basin, we do understand that her home is situated in our ancestral land, they said, adding, she has not reached out to the tribe herself.
01:34:27.680Eilish has not contacted our tribe directly regarding regarding her property.
01:34:33.000We do value the instance when public figures provide visibility to the true history of this country.
01:34:37.740Additionally, the tribe said, they've contacted Eilish's team, quote, to express our appreciation for her comments.
01:34:45.420It is our hope that in future discussions, the tribe can be explicitly referenced to ensure the public understands that the greater LA basin remains Gabrieleno Tongva territory.
01:34:58.620And so the real question here is when is she going to return her mansion to the Tongva?
01:35:04.640Rich, I mean, three, two, one, no time like the present.
01:35:08.600There's no such thing as an illegal, unstolen land.
01:35:10.780I'm sure it'd be a great community center for the tribe.
01:35:14.120And she can go someplace else that she thinks was rightfully secure.
01:35:19.600Now, so many levels of absurdity to this.
01:35:22.860One, stealing land is what human beings did almost throughout the entirety of our history, very much including Native Americans, right?1.00
01:35:30.480And this is, in some ways, it speaks well of us as a Western society that you have people thinking this in these terms.
01:35:38.540Because no one, no Comanche was thinking, oh, we really should have done that to the Apaches when we pushed them out.0.89
01:35:43.920No Iroquois, after they bought a bunch of rifles from the Dutch and the English, were thinking, no, we shouldn't do this to the Mohicans, right?0.97
01:35:51.920So if you kind of peel the onion, every tribe that, you know, Ben and Jerry say the Lakotas need the Black Hills back or whatever it is, they stole it from someone else.0.98
01:35:59.940They moved in there and displaced other people.
01:36:11.400And this just goes to how radical some of the contentions are on immigration.
01:36:16.740It's not just that borders don't have any legitimacy in terms of excluding people.
01:36:20.560We have no right to be here ourselves.
01:36:23.700It's a criticism of the United States of America at its foundations.
01:36:28.780Charlie, Billie Eilish will never give back her mansion to the Tongva, nor will any of these Hollywood celebrities who try to lecture us or make us do a land acknowledgement before we can hear them perform, ever do such a gesture.
01:36:46.860As stupid as her comments were, and they were made all the more so by the fact that for some reason she seemed to be wearing an academic gown of the sort you would expect the commencement speaker to wear.
01:37:30.880And I think as a result, we'll perhaps not take them too seriously because they're not going to do anything about it.
01:37:37.820As Rich says, though, the core idea there is, if taken to its logical conclusion, exclusive of the sovereignty and authority of the United States government and all of the 50 states as well.
01:37:51.440So while Billie Eilish might not worry me, those sentiments, when expressed from within the institutional left, as they often are and within academia, do.
01:38:02.100Because if there is no such thing as an illegal person, then there's no such thing as a citizen.
01:38:06.880And if there's no such thing as a citizen, then there's no such thing as a government because we live in a representative government and a constitutional republic.
01:38:42.720Now, speaking of someone who hasn't thought it through, a couple years ago, this guy was in the news for getting married and Taylor Swift went to his wedding.
01:38:53.240He's written a bunch of songs for her.
01:38:55.160Apparently, he's a prolific songwriter and he's very well known in the music industry.