The Megyn Kelly Show - Shocking Busfield Allegations, Oprah's Obesity Spin, and Kohberger and Sinema Lawsuits, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1232

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00:01:00.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:01:02.480 live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.340 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.080 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:01:16.000 We have got updates on the Brian Koberger case and the Timothy Busfield case.

00:01:20.900 Plus, Oprah and Kamala Harris are both on the road.

00:01:24.160 We'll get to what they're saying.

00:01:25.480 But first, people continue freaking out about the Trump administration's ice operation in Minneapolis.

00:01:30.420 We've got more videos of leftists melting down.

00:01:33.440 And if you believed everything on NPR, maybe you would too.

00:01:37.680 You would also be in the midst of a midlife crisis meltdown.

00:01:41.140 Listen to this report from NPR's Up First this morning.

00:01:44.840 As you know, I listen so you don't have to.

00:01:48.440 And I should note the observers filming and making noise.

00:01:52.100 Those peaceful acts of resistance, even though they're chaotic, are protected by the Constitution.

00:01:57.600 But ICE has responded to some confrontations over the last week with a lot of aggression.

00:02:01.820 Over the last five days, NPR reporters, myself included, we've seen ICE officers using tear gas, flashbangs, and pepper balls to disperse crowds.

00:02:11.300 But the community here, you know, it's responding in quieter ways, too.

00:02:15.240 Well, say more about that if you would. How so?

00:02:17.720 Yeah, so if you drive around the Twin Cities, you'll see parents and other community members standing guard outside of schools and daycares with whistles around their necks.

00:02:26.200 Residents are collecting food donations and giving rides to people who are afraid to leave the house.

00:02:30.940 And people are afraid to leave their homes.

00:02:35.040 And these fears, being afraid to leave the house, they're not unfounded.

00:02:39.420 NPR reporters have witnessed immigration officers stopping and even detaining people of color, seemingly at random, on the street.

00:02:46.580 Oh, seemingly. What did you do to satisfy yourself, NPR, that it was just at random?

00:02:52.400 And by the way, most of the illegals are indeed people of color.

00:02:56.360 Okay, sorry, they're all coming from Venezuela, which means they're brown. 1.00

00:03:00.100 It's not a racist thing. It's a country thing, a nationality thing.

00:03:04.960 They don't stop just any brown person.

00:03:06.940 They stop the people who are on a list that they have figured out, got in, most of them under Joe Biden's presidency,

00:03:12.460 who are here illegally, like the three Venezuelans who attacked the ICE officer two days ago.

00:03:17.780 And, like, the ICE, you know, they appear, they appear to be stopping people of color at random.

00:03:23.980 Meanwhile, just for good measure, here they are proving their, like, their bona fides over at NPR of, like, actual Latina and Latino knowledge.

00:03:32.680 Here is the guy, A. Martinez, who wants you to know he totally understands how to pronounce the Latin words the right way.

00:03:40.100 Here he is, Liz in Sot 3.

00:03:42.840 Venezuela's leading opposition figure came to Washington, D.C. to meet with President Trump for the first time and presented him with her Nobel Peace Prize.

00:03:50.840 Maria Corina Machado is making a push to remain part of Venezuela's future after the U.S. military operation that led to the seizure of deposed leader Nicolás Maduro.

00:03:59.300 Trump has sidelined Machado and is backing Venezuela's acting president, who, at the same time yesterday, was in Caracas giving a defiant and at times compliant speech before lawmakers.

00:04:11.700 Caracas.

00:04:12.760 Okay, we get it, A. Martinez.

00:04:14.980 You know, we get it, okay?

00:04:17.160 I'm Megyn Kelly, but when we do stories about Ireland, I'm not like,

00:04:21.260 Oh, lassies, time to get out of the bar. 1.00

00:04:25.780 I don't know if that was an Irish accent or not. 0.55

00:04:28.200 It's just absurd.

00:04:29.520 All of this is absurd, okay?

00:04:31.220 No mention in the NPR report of the ICE officer ambushed Wednesday night or of the crimes committed by the illegal immigrants ICE is lawfully targeting.

00:04:39.800 Nothing about the violent protesters who literally ransacked a federal vehicle, including its weapons locker, grabbing the rifle, putting the emails and the address information for ICE officers out into the public.

00:04:53.240 I didn't hear anything about getting beaten with a shovel and a broom handle to where the ICE officers in the hospital, nothing.

00:05:00.860 It's just, they're just standing guard with their whistles.

00:05:03.520 They're so sweet.

00:05:04.360 And also here is news from Caracas.

00:05:07.340 Joining me now to react to all of this and more, one of our very favorites and yours, Maureen Callahan is here.

00:05:12.400 She's host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan on the MK Media Podcast Network.

00:05:16.280 Go and subscribe right now to all of her platforms.

00:05:19.720 The Nerve Show dot com will bring you there or just go into podcast and type in The Nerve.

00:05:24.240 You will figure it out and you'll be glad you did.

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00:06:26.840 Maureen, hi.

00:06:27.940 Hi.

00:06:28.560 I mean, can you get over the NPR virtue signaling and lies?

00:06:32.000 This story, I mean, as it develops, I find it really upsetting actually.

00:06:38.160 I really, really do.

00:06:39.240 You know, when you see this footage on the news that I know, the most recent one was that woman being dragged out of a car.

00:06:45.480 Yeah, that's Florida.

00:06:46.600 Right.

00:06:46.880 Okay.

00:06:47.300 And then you look at it and you're like, oh my God, this is horrifying.

00:06:50.120 And then you read in a little bit more and it's like, well, was she attempting to block ICE from doing what they were doing by like, they're triangulating all these cars, citizens.

00:06:59.260 And I feel like, you know, I did a column on this and I just feel like we are in this culture of escalation where the streets feel like unduly militarized in a way.

00:07:11.680 You know, I don't enjoy seeing federal agents pepper spraying and violently pulling people out of cars, women especially. 0.99

00:07:20.640 I don't like it.

00:07:21.540 But I also don't like being told that these are peaceful protests when they're not.

00:07:26.040 Mm-hmm.

00:07:56.020 And then we learn also that the ICE agent who shot her had been dragged six months prior and in that horrific, horrific event probably thought he was going to die.

00:08:17.240 Mm-hmm. 0.86

00:08:17.580 If not, get his arm ripped off. 0.73

00:08:19.000 33 stitches.

00:08:20.300 Yeah.

00:08:20.620 And then so my question is, should this guy have been back out in the field six months later, you know?

00:08:25.020 Does he have some form of PTSD?

00:08:26.860 I just think there's so much that we don't know.

00:08:32.320 And I feel like both sides are retreating to their corners.

00:08:37.640 If you're on the right, ICE is completely in the right.

00:08:40.480 You know, watching Tom Homan with Tony Ducoppo the day that this happened with Renee Goode saying ICE never makes a mistake, ever. 0.96

00:08:47.680 You know, and then on the left hearing that ICE is just a bunch of white supremacist thugs who are looking for anyone of color to terrorize and brutalize. 0.95

00:08:56.660 I just, I don't know. 0.97

00:08:58.900 It just doesn't feel right to me.

00:09:00.240 Oh, man.

00:09:00.680 I'm 100% on ICE's side.

00:09:02.640 I don't see the nuance on this one.

00:09:04.120 I feel like you don't want to get shot in the face by ICE.

00:09:06.660 Don't try to run one down.

00:09:08.340 Don't try to antagonize them. 1.00

00:09:09.560 Don't inject yourself in the middle of a law enforcement operation, you fool. 0.99

00:09:13.760 Everybody knows not to do that. 1.00

00:09:15.480 Everybody knows not to do that.

00:09:16.860 And everybody knows that these cops are being antagonized and might be a little on edge.

00:09:20.980 Like in the law, we call it assumption of the risk.

00:09:23.380 That's what I see Renee Goode doing that day. 1.00

00:09:25.240 It's not that I have no empathy for her family, but I have empathy for them because they had a dumbass mother who made very fucking dumb decisions that got her killed. 1.00

00:09:33.480 Like that's how, to me, it's so clear. 0.99

00:09:35.640 I'm one of those 67% more Republican-leaning people who are in favor of this.

00:09:39.680 But as we pointed out on an AM update today and yesterday on the show, 53% of the populace is saying they're on the side of Renee Goode.

00:09:47.080 Like they think the ICE officer made a mistake and that he should be prosecuted, the majority, and that's all Democrats and independents.

00:09:54.200 So you're not wrong that people are definitely seeing it vehemently differently.

00:09:57.600 The woman, I said that one woman getting dragged from her car was in Florida only because that's the most recent.

00:10:02.800 But we did show a video yesterday of this woman getting dragged by cops like, I have a brain injury. 0.98

00:10:07.120 I have autism.

00:10:08.200 I have everything.

00:10:08.840 No, you don't.

00:10:09.580 You don't.

00:10:10.900 You were like two minutes earlier, you were in your car antagonizing them and you were fine.

00:10:14.540 Only now that you're caught and getting dragged off, are you suddenly disabled?

00:10:17.920 But this woman down in Florida is, she takes the cake. 1.00

00:10:21.580 Her name is Jennifer Cruz and she decided it might be a good idea to punch a police officer in the face as she tried to valiantly guard illegals down in Florida. 1.00

00:10:32.440 Unlike Minnesota, Florida does not F around.

00:10:35.700 Like you mess with a Florida ICE enforcement officer and you're going to regret it, which is exactly what happened to Jennifer Cruz,

00:10:42.560 who, apart from being morbidly obese and in no condition to fight with grown, trained law enforcement officers, is rude and committed a felony.

00:10:52.260 So here's how that went down. 1.00

00:10:56.000 Weak-ass motherfucker. 1.00

00:10:57.300 Hey, huh. 1.00

00:10:59.400 Don't you dance, fuck you. 1.00

00:11:00.480 Police are in the police car. 1.00

00:11:01.640 She's kicking the cops still. 1.00

00:11:03.900 And that's not what I'm talking about. 1.00

00:11:05.080 You're just motherfuckers and they cased her. 1.00

00:11:09.240 Close. 1.00

00:11:09.680 Lift your head up.

00:11:13.820 Lift your head up.

00:11:18.720 She's just kicking the police car. 1.00

00:11:23.360 She displaced the camera. 0.94

00:11:30.600 I mean, it's sad because this person considers herself some sort of weekend warrior, Jennifer Cruz, and she found out the hard way, this is a very bad idea.

00:11:38.620 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:40.220 The thing that I really, I think about this so much because I do believe that most people, not all, there are definitely bad actors out there.

00:11:50.300 But this is, I think, just the result of where certain media narratives have brought us.

00:11:57.920 I think these agitators on the left truly believe they're doing the right thing.

00:12:02.380 I really do.

00:12:03.200 Yeah.

00:12:03.420 I don't think they hate America.

00:12:05.060 Oh, no, some of them do.

00:12:05.920 Some of them do.

00:12:06.480 Some of them do.

00:12:07.140 And some of them hate Trump and see this all through that lens.

00:12:10.020 And, you know, I think we might talk about one battle after another later, which folds into this, really.

00:12:15.900 But I think that they think they're really doing the right thing and that they're standing up for the most vulnerable among us.

00:12:21.760 And I think those on the right feel like, no, we are absolutely doing the right thing.

00:12:26.400 There are illegals here and there are bad actors. 1.00

00:12:28.620 They're molesting our children. 0.99

00:12:30.620 Yes. 0.98

00:12:30.780 They're molesting little children. 0.98

00:12:32.820 And need to be removed. 0.99

00:12:34.880 Yes.

00:12:35.080 I agree with you completely.

00:12:36.820 But, you know, I was thinking a lot about in the aftermath of Martin Luther King's assassination, height of the civil rights movement.

00:12:45.580 JFK had been assassinated just a few years prior.

00:12:48.480 And Bobby Kennedy Jr. was due to give a speech that night, the night of the assassination.

00:12:54.040 And all of his advisors said, don't do it.

00:12:56.160 It's a powder keg.

00:12:57.020 It's going to explode.

00:12:58.300 It's going to erupt into violence.

00:12:59.940 And he said, no, I want to do it.

00:13:01.640 And he only had a couple of hours to really cogitate and think about what he wanted to say.

00:13:07.280 And what he did say was to advocate for calm and encourage, as the Greeks said, to make gentle the world.

00:13:15.540 And we lack that rhetoric now, I feel.

00:13:19.220 It doesn't sound like Trump.

00:13:21.060 It's definitely not Trump.

00:13:21.980 That would not be Trump's response to virtually anything.

00:13:24.100 But we don't have anybody on any side, I feel, calling for that.

00:13:27.480 You know?

00:13:28.160 Yeah, I agree with that.

00:13:29.100 I just feel like if they would stay at home and let ICE do their business, they'd get in and get out.

00:13:34.820 If Minnesota would cooperate by turning over these criminals at the jail, which is what ICE has asked for, a lot of them get arrested for these child molestations and attempted murders.

00:13:45.560 And instead of just calling ICE and saying, here they are, we detained them on a traffic violation, but it turns out there's a warrant for their arrest or we know that they're a criminal, dangerous, illegal.

00:13:54.580 They won't.

00:13:55.680 So Tom Holman has no choice but to go into the community and track them down.

00:13:59.040 And these people playing, you know, wannabe cop are playing with fire.

00:14:04.720 I just feel like it's very clear there is a duty by law enforcement to enforce the law.

00:14:11.080 These people have broken the law, even if they've committed no additional crime.

00:14:14.440 If they're here illegally.

00:14:15.820 Like the NPR report talks about someone who's afraid to leave her house, so they're bringing her groceries.

00:14:20.560 She is, quote, an asylum seeker, which is another way of saying she's most likely just an illegal. 1.00

00:14:25.000 The odds of this woman actually crossing a point of entry and declaring that she's here for asylum are extremely slim.

00:14:32.280 This is just what they say after they get in here, trying to play on people's heartstrings.

00:14:36.060 There's a way of handling that, and it's not to just cross the border illegally and hope that no one finds you.

00:14:41.800 What they do is in New York, they take over our schools.

00:14:44.540 You know, you have to have 40 different types of languages.

00:14:47.040 The American kids get the short end of the stick. 0.99

00:14:49.000 Like, they're actually literally molesting young girls and killing them, like Jocelyn Nungare down in Texas.

00:14:55.680 Jasmine Crockett is crying her eyes out over the ice raids and Jennifer Good.

00:15:01.560 She's crying over Jennifer Good, or Renee Good.

00:15:04.600 She didn't cry over Jocelyn Nungare, who's from Texas like she is. 0.99

00:15:08.360 Not a fucking tear. 0.99

00:15:09.940 We went back and checked. 1.00

00:15:11.200 Not a word.

00:15:11.960 She didn't care.

00:15:12.620 So it's just, to me, none of these people who have been murdered, brutally murdered by these illegals, gets a demonstration by these people. 0.80

00:15:21.120 Where are they with their whistles when the illegals are crossing the border meaning to do Americans harm? 1.00

00:15:26.000 It's just until they can get their faces on TV and cause chaos for Trump that they suddenly become these warriors thinking,

00:15:32.160 it's civil war and I'm on the side of the good guys.

00:15:34.940 I just, I have zero tolerance for it.

00:15:37.140 I am firmly in the 67%.

00:15:40.080 I know.

00:15:40.800 I know.

00:15:41.180 So anyway, okay, this goes on and it's not showing any signs of resolving anytime soon,

00:15:46.840 and nor is the rhetoric calming down at all, but there's a lot more to get to.

00:15:49.740 So you mentioned one battle after another, which my team mentioned to me this morning,

00:15:53.340 and I had zero familiarity with it.

00:15:55.300 What is it and why is it relevant?

00:15:56.960 So it's the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, Sean Penn, and it's directed by Paul Thomas Anderson.

00:16:03.380 It just won at the Golden Globes.

00:16:05.320 Best musical or comedy.

00:16:06.600 I think it's a drama.

00:16:07.540 I don't understand it.

00:16:08.580 Okay.

00:16:08.940 Um, so it's not, the time in which it is set remains distinctly, deliberately unclear.

00:16:16.100 Leo plays an agitator.

00:16:18.360 Uh, he is a, um, they use violence to get their ends across, their message across.

00:16:25.940 He is in an interracial relationship with a black woman, and the way the film opens is

00:16:30.780 they are, uh, setting a bomb, uh, outside of a, like a federal agency, and they're running 0.88

00:16:37.800 away, and, um, his girlfriend, his pregnant girlfriend wants to have sex as the bomb goes 0.96

00:16:43.560 off. 1.00

00:16:43.900 Okay.

00:16:44.400 Okay.

00:16:44.800 We're setting the table.

00:16:46.260 And Leo is sort of in this post-COVID, again, the time is unclear by deliberate choice, but

00:16:51.920 he's in this sort of post-COVID ratty, like, uh, bathrobe throughout the whole movie.

00:16:58.260 Like, it's unclear.

00:16:59.540 They're telling me that we have a clip from the, is this from the trailer, Steve?

00:17:02.980 Is that what we're about to see?

00:17:04.280 It's from the opening scene.

00:17:05.260 Okay, let's watch.

00:17:07.580 Our best guess, there's about 250, 275 people in there.

00:17:11.140 It's hard, it's hard to count.

00:17:12.560 We need to be prepared for like 300 people by the time we get there, right?

00:17:16.340 At an ice facility.

00:17:17.100 Our cargo container, 18-wheeler, that thing only holds 160 people.

00:17:22.700 I'm talking about crammed in there tight.

00:17:24.980 Cheek to chow. 0.98

00:17:25.940 Smash face to face.

00:17:27.620 Women and children first. 1.00

00:17:28.780 Got tear gas, I got whatever you guys need, but I'm, I'm unclear as to what the plan is.

00:17:33.320 I'm in some direction.

00:17:34.280 Don't be unclear.

00:17:36.060 I got a plan for us.

00:17:37.720 What is it?

00:17:38.480 You need to create a diversion?

00:17:39.860 I'm going to blow something up?

00:17:40.880 You know what?

00:17:43.040 Everyone shouldn't create a show, Pat.

00:17:46.480 Okay? 0.99

00:17:47.000 This is an announcement, a motherfucking revolution. 0.99

00:17:49.700 Make it good. 0.98

00:17:50.720 Make it bright.

00:17:52.160 Impress me.

00:17:52.720 They're talking about blowing something up.

00:17:55.380 Make it good.

00:17:57.460 The ice stuff.

00:17:58.640 That's, that's exactly what it is that makes it that I see.

00:18:01.780 So I don't really believe that Paul Thomas Anderson is like, I've been working on this

00:18:04.840 movie for 16 years and it just happens to be centered around the powder cake issue of

00:18:09.940 the moment.

00:18:10.280 Okay.

00:18:10.540 And this is why this movie is a lock for best picture.

00:18:12.900 Okay.

00:18:13.200 It's a lock.

00:18:14.880 Sean Penn plays a military guy.

00:18:18.780 His name is Lockjaw.

00:18:20.160 It's Stephen Lockjaw.

00:18:21.600 The girlfriend in the movie is Perfidia Beverly Hills. 0.97

00:18:24.660 Okay.

00:18:25.040 The names are not subtle.

00:18:26.440 Come on.

00:18:27.220 Now, Sean Penn gets an invitation and he's very excited to get this invitation to meet

00:18:32.220 with a white supremacist cabal led by Tony Goldwyn.

00:18:36.080 They call themselves like the Christmas group or something.

00:18:39.040 And I've read, it depends on the, on the reviewer and what outlet, whether it's a right

00:18:44.040 or left leaning outlet, but some of them believe it's being played for camp.

00:18:47.820 I read it as pure, like they were playing it straight.

00:18:51.400 This is a white supremacist cabal that wants all of the Brown people out.

00:18:57.080 And, and I don't, I don't know where the Sean Penn character is coming from because frankly,

00:19:01.280 this movie is a mess and I could not make it through it, but the movie ends. 0.57

00:19:05.520 Sean Penn begins a sexual relationship with the Leo character's girlfriend, the black woman, 0.86

00:19:11.220 Perfidia Beverly Hills, Beverly Hills, Megan. 0.99

00:19:14.880 And that sex scene culminates.

00:19:17.560 And this is why Sean Penn's probably a lock for an award with that woman ramming a firearm 1.00

00:19:22.420 up his anus. 1.00

00:19:24.280 No. 1.00

00:19:24.720 Yes.

00:19:25.140 No.

00:19:25.540 We showed it.

00:19:26.140 We showed it on our live stream.

00:19:27.880 It's real.

00:19:29.420 It's not real.

00:19:30.300 He climaxes.

00:19:30.960 No, it isn't.

00:19:32.140 Like the weapon insertion is off screen, but like, yeah, it's, it's unmistakable.

00:19:36.900 Oh my gosh.

00:19:38.220 So that's our next best picture. 0.97

00:19:39.600 Ridiculous. 0.83

00:19:40.060 That tells you where Hollywood's at right now. 0.98

00:19:41.780 Oh, come on. 0.87

00:19:42.880 All right.

00:19:43.000 I know.

00:19:43.380 So now I understand it.

00:19:45.080 I actually saw an interesting film last weekend.

00:19:48.140 I think it was, we watched it.

00:19:49.380 It's styled.

00:19:49.900 It starred Kyle Chandler as the male lead.

00:19:54.420 And the female lead was Diane Lane.

00:19:57.920 I don't know if you've seen it.

00:19:59.200 I can't remember what it was called.

00:20:00.080 It's called the anniversary.

00:20:01.480 Okay.

00:20:02.040 And the whole time I'm like, is this about Trump?

00:20:04.960 Is this because the premise of the film is it starts off with, they're celebrating their

00:20:10.000 anniversary and they have four kids, three daughters and a son. 0.99

00:20:12.700 The son's kind of a loser. 0.81

00:20:14.280 The daughters have their acts more together. 0.98

00:20:16.540 And the son is dating a girl just at the beginning of the movie who it turns out had been in Diane Lane's class at Georgetown.

00:20:26.940 And Diane Lane, when she meets her son's girlfriend is not happy because she didn't like this student because this student wrote a dissertation that was very subversive

00:20:37.960 and was proposing that we kind of overthrow the government and redo things here in the United States to where it's just one party and there's no more two-party system.

00:20:46.460 And they changed the American flag to move the stars right in the center of the flag as opposed to the top left.

00:20:53.800 And she's like really triggered by this young girl.

00:20:56.220 Well, then they flash forward five years.

00:20:58.240 The son has married this girl.

00:20:59.860 This girl's dissertation has turned into a best-selling book that sold 10 million copies.

00:21:05.980 It started like a cult in the United States.

00:21:08.960 And then as the movie goes forward, and she's the cult leader, you start to realize it's about authoritarianism that she's proposing.

00:21:17.100 And a heavy-handed ruler who basically says it's my way or the highway gets rid of the two-party system because we've come to learn he can't stand those pesky Democrats. 0.93

00:21:29.480 And the only time they lift up the dress on what they're really talking about is there's a Thanksgiving dinner table scene where the mother, Diane Lane, says something about how we're with you to one of her daughters who's saying Thanksgiving sucks. 0.98

00:21:42.580 We killed the Native Americans. 1.00

00:21:44.960 We gave them smallpox and the blankets. 0.71

00:21:47.300 And this is nothing to be celebrated.

00:21:48.920 And the parents show their politics by saying, we agree with you.

00:21:52.040 But, of course, the evil new daughter-in-law is sitting there nasty at the end of the table, was the cult leader who doesn't seem to like this, demands, I guess, that you like Thanksgiving and that you celebrate America. 0.91

00:22:04.960 And she is the one imposing the authoritarian rule where, like, you're not allowed to be registered to the other party.

00:22:10.360 The Stassi will show up and actually arrest you if you're not. 0.99

00:22:13.380 People are getting killed if they have different—and by the end of the movie, I'm like, this is all about Trump.

00:22:18.420 This is all this big, subversive movie trying to say that this is Trump's imaginary future, even though they never mention him.

00:22:25.620 And it was the first time that I ever questioned whether Kyle Chandler actually is as hot as I think he is.

00:22:31.740 Interesting.

00:22:32.800 Interesting.

00:22:33.480 You know, he's also in the—he's in the new Ben Affleck, Matt Damon movie, I think, that just dropped on Netflix, The Rip.

00:22:39.780 I like Kyle Chandler.

00:22:40.960 I love him.

00:22:41.940 He is the only male celebrity who I genuinely find attractive.

00:22:46.220 Really?

00:22:46.560 Yes.

00:22:47.020 I like—nobody else does it for me, but Kyle Chandler is hot, and I loved him in Friday Night Lights.

00:22:53.660 But I object to this movie.

00:22:55.000 I've never seen Friday Night Lights.

00:22:57.820 I've admitted this on the nerve.

00:22:59.780 It's my shame crush.

00:23:01.060 I find Ben Affleck really attractive, but I can't help it.

00:23:03.600 You do.

00:23:04.000 I know he's a bad guy.

00:23:05.880 I know he's a real shame—I can't help it.

00:23:07.980 But I—I don't—

00:23:09.400 So as between Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, you'd go Ben Affleck?

00:23:13.380 I like the height.

00:23:14.340 I like the features.

00:23:15.240 Okay, I see that.

00:23:16.040 Yeah.

00:23:16.420 Like current Ben Affleck or the one from that military movie where he did look kind of cute?

00:23:21.200 Oh, Armageddon?

00:23:21.980 You're talking about Armageddon?

00:23:22.320 Is that—yeah, Armageddon.

00:23:23.120 Was that the one where he was in his, like, military—

00:23:25.260 Okay, I got to tell you something.

00:23:26.380 He's also very funny.

00:23:27.760 He is.

00:23:28.380 You may not like his politics, but—

00:23:29.980 Okay, okay.

00:23:30.000 No, he doesn't like my politics.

00:23:31.660 I didn't judge him.

00:23:32.600 Have you guys had a skirmish?

00:23:33.780 No, but he says publicly he wouldn't act across from a Republican.

00:23:37.680 Oh, get out. 1.00

00:23:38.660 Yes.

00:23:39.420 Yeah, he says that.

00:23:40.320 Okay.

00:23:40.740 I'm not a Republican.

00:23:41.760 I'm an independent, but my sensibilities are conservative.

00:23:43.840 So there's an amazing director's cut or voiceover of Armageddon where the director and the actors give the color commentary about what was going on in any given scene.

00:23:55.800 I've never listened to one of those.

00:23:56.920 Are those worthwhile?

00:23:57.920 I don't know.

00:23:58.620 I've never listened to one either, but I've listened to this segment that was cut out on YouTube that lasts for, like, maybe a minute or under.

00:24:04.820 Anyway, Ben Affleck is—you know, the whole premise of the movie is, like, an asteroid's about to hit the Earth.

00:24:08.920 And so the president and NASA commissioned a bunch of oil drillers to learn how to become astronauts and go into space and blow up the asteroid.

00:24:17.360 Oh, this was not the movie.

00:24:18.480 This is not—he was—there was a different movie where he was in a military—he was, like, a military guy.

00:24:22.600 It was—you guys do a Google search and tell me what Ben Affleck movie I'm thinking about.

00:24:26.000 Keep going, Will.

00:24:26.900 So Ben Affleck's commentary includes this very salient and, I think, smart observation.

00:24:32.520 He goes to the director.

00:24:34.180 It's like Michael Bay.

00:24:35.300 And he's like, Michael, explain this to me.

00:24:37.640 Why is it easier to teach a bunch of oil drillers to become astronauts than a bunch of astronauts who are geniuses to drill?

00:24:47.520 Astronauts who are geniuses to drill.

00:24:49.280 Rather than train oil drillers to become astronauts in, like, a week.

00:24:53.480 Okay, I got it. 1.00

00:24:54.500 And he said—the director said to him, shut the fuck up, Ben. 0.99

00:24:57.320 And he laughed. 0.99

00:24:58.140 And I thought it was very—when you listen to the way he tells—he's very bemused.

00:25:01.320 Okay. 0.99

00:25:01.740 You know, he's like, I know it was a pain in the ass. 0.99

00:25:03.260 So he has a sense of humor about himself. 0.99

00:25:04.560 It's a plot hole.

00:25:05.500 It's a logical plot.

00:25:08.020 It just doesn't make any sense.

00:25:09.120 Yes.

00:25:09.500 The premise of the whole movie makes no sense.

00:25:10.960 Well—

00:25:11.220 I enjoy it.

00:25:11.720 His leftist politics are definitely a turn-off to me.

00:25:14.240 And I know that Matt Damon shares them.

00:25:16.380 We're comparing them because they kind of came up together, of course.

00:25:19.020 And they made a splash together in Good Will Hunting and both starred in it.

00:25:24.440 But I know that Ben Affleck is a leftist.

00:25:26.840 I just don't think he's as far left as Ben Affleck.

00:25:28.640 But I could be wrong because he was showing up at the Golden Globes the other night with a Be Good pin.

00:25:35.060 It was just Matt Damon.

00:25:35.640 Matt Damon.

00:25:36.340 That was—

00:25:36.660 I'm like, oh, please. 0.94

00:25:37.800 And I guarantee you, Matt Damon doesn't know shit about everything that went down. 0.99

00:25:40.940 I really—I believe he doesn't know shit. 0.99

00:25:42.580 Yeah, just like Mark Ruffalo. 0.99

00:25:43.900 Yeah.

00:25:44.200 Oh, he's the worst.

00:25:45.100 He thinks he knows everything. 1.00

00:25:45.840 He's such a dope. 1.00

00:25:46.720 He's the worst. 0.99

00:25:47.020 Have you ever heard that guy, like, interviewed about real—like, he doesn't know a thing. 1.00

00:25:51.140 He's so stupid. 1.00

00:25:52.160 It's painful. 1.00

00:25:52.760 But, I mean, it's also not a shock.

00:25:55.780 But in any event, okay.

00:25:56.880 So, wait.

00:25:58.200 While we're on the subject of movies, where did I want to go with this?

00:26:02.060 Oh, to Timothy Busfield.

00:26:04.160 Oh, yeah.

00:26:04.760 On the subject of Hollywood stars.

00:26:06.180 So, there's developments in the Timothy Busfield child molestation accusation case where he was—I don't know if we call it on the lam when you're just not turning yourself in.

00:26:17.800 The arrest warrant went out Friday, and he didn't turn himself into authorities until—well, Friday was day one, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, day five, Tuesday.

00:26:28.680 He says it's because he was driving cross-country 2,000 miles. 0.98

00:26:32.040 That's bullshit. 0.99

00:26:33.160 You can, A, get on a plane. 1.00

00:26:34.720 B, if you really just didn't want to, like, get onto a plane for whatever reason, you would call the authorities and say, I'm coming.

00:26:40.980 I'm going to drive cross-country, and I will be there on whatever.

00:26:44.480 But he was whereabouts unknown.

00:26:47.280 I don't know what he was doing, but that is not the behavior of an innocent man in my view.

00:26:52.340 But now he's hired some expensive defense lawyer who has come out, and this guy claims that he has passed a, quote, independent examiner's polygraph.

00:27:04.980 That his lawyer hired an independent polygraph examiner, and that Timothy Busfield has allegedly passed it.

00:27:13.400 Period.

00:27:13.760 End of report.

00:27:14.420 Absolutely no additional details.

00:27:15.940 I don't believe it.

00:27:17.760 I'm just going to be honest.

00:27:18.840 There's no way that this lawyer would have hired somebody who they couldn't control to do something like this.

00:27:25.560 But that's what they're using to make us, you know, believe that he's innocent.

00:27:29.660 And here's a bit of—okay, this is TMZ with video from Timothy Busfield's lawyer's office in Albuquerque.

00:27:37.320 Is this a video we saw the other day where he denies it?

00:27:41.780 Oh, okay.

00:27:42.360 Yeah, we already saw this.

00:27:43.240 Never mind.

00:27:43.520 We already played this.

00:27:44.440 He had his first court appearance the other day.

00:27:46.780 And meanwhile—so that case is going to play out, Maureen.

00:27:49.560 But meanwhile, his wife, Melissa Gilbert, is on her brand website.

00:27:56.340 She's got—she's like a Meghan Markle wannabe with her little home-style brand, like Home on the Prairie or whatever it is.

00:28:02.840 She's still posting.

00:28:04.560 So she's deleted her personal socials, though she was very active using them, trying to shame people like me, who she didn't feel talked about abuse in the proper way.

00:28:15.380 Hello, heal thyself, preacher.

00:28:17.780 Now she's posting on her lifestyle brand all about what's in her refrigerator and having the brand people point out that Melissa has nothing to do with the allegations against Timothy, which is not true.

00:28:31.280 She is repeatedly referenced in the police affidavit in support of the charges, accusing her of being part of the grooming by taking these two seven-year-old boys out for dinners and buying them presents, not specifically saying that she knew they were being abused, but definitely pointed to her as fostering the close relationship.

00:28:50.980 So it's not true that she has nothing to do with it.

00:28:53.660 And she has nothing suddenly to say about abuse, Maureen.

00:28:57.600 Absolutely nothing.

00:28:58.740 She's deleted the socials.

00:28:59.960 So what do you make of this whole thing?

00:29:03.300 I don't mean to be superficial, but I look at the two of them and they look like a colossal mess.

00:29:08.920 They look like very heavy drinkers to me.

00:29:11.060 Yeah, you can see it.

00:29:12.360 They look unhygienic to me.

00:29:14.180 Yes, they do look unhygienic.

00:29:15.520 It speaks to just a sort of chaos, like an emotional, intellectual chaos.

00:29:21.100 That guy was missing for five days.

00:29:24.000 If law enforcement knew where he was, we would have known.

00:29:26.940 And I think the feds raiding the House upstate, ramming their way in.

00:29:32.560 I think that was an F you to those two for him being wherever he was.

00:29:38.480 You know, as you said, innocent people don't run.

00:29:40.720 No.

00:29:40.780 My opinion, innocent people don't run.

00:29:43.640 She then deletes her Instagram account, but then reactivates the modern prairie, whatever her thing is, to show us the contents of her refrigerator as one does when one's husband is facing multiple accounts of child abuse.

00:30:02.320 That police affidavit, by the way, I believe the part where Melissa—well, Melissa's involved, too, because when the police in Albuquerque were interviewing Timothy in New York via speakerphone, he said, Melissa is here with me.

00:30:17.740 She heard everything, November 3rd.

00:30:19.400 Heard everything.

00:30:21.400 Heard—you read his denial, it's like it's all over the place.

00:30:25.300 Yes.

00:30:26.120 Yeah, I definitely would have touched those kids.

00:30:28.600 Are you allowed to touch those kids is the question from the authorities?

00:30:31.740 Well, no, you're definitely not allowed to touch the kids.

00:30:33.580 I mean, there's no protocol for it.

00:30:34.820 I mean, there may be a protocol for it.

00:30:36.160 I don't know.

00:30:36.560 You know what happened?

00:30:37.460 The father of those boys wanted me to hug them.

00:30:39.880 I didn't want to hug them.

00:30:41.000 And then—

00:30:41.500 Oh, wait.

00:30:41.880 I don't know who those boys are.

00:30:43.120 Yes.

00:30:43.280 I don't remember them.

00:30:43.880 Yes.

00:30:44.300 I don't remember them.

00:30:45.380 Yes.

00:30:45.540 Okay.

00:30:46.060 Wait a minute.

00:30:46.480 The ones that you just admitted playfully tickling?

00:30:48.920 You don't remember them suddenly?

00:30:49.960 Highly likely you touched.

00:30:51.440 Yeah.

00:30:51.640 So which is it?

00:30:52.380 And honestly, like, it's a no.

00:30:54.020 Can you imagine someone playfully tickling your seven-year-old boy who—

00:30:59.080 There is no reason an adult should be putting hands on a child that is not their own.

00:31:03.540 That's right.

00:31:04.180 And especially everybody knows that, quote, playful tickling of another man's son is inappropriate

00:31:11.500 for you to be doing as a grown man and is considered a grooming behavior.

00:31:16.040 It is absolutely grooming behavior.

00:31:17.500 I had a distant relative, distant, distant, who we all knew there was something deeply

00:31:24.300 wrong with him.

00:31:25.120 And clue number one, he lived in Southeast Asia and, you know, never came back.

00:31:29.780 But when he would come over, and this was, this was, again, this was before, like, this conversation

00:31:35.080 was, like, just part of our, like, we all are very fluent in what this stuff is now, would

00:31:41.000 love to tickle me.

00:31:41.740 And I was a highly ticklish child. 0.99

00:31:43.060 And I knew it was so fucked up and disturbing because it's, like, you're laughing, but it's 0.99

00:31:49.080 an involuntary reaction. 0.99

00:31:50.700 But inside, you're in agony.

00:31:52.540 And the longer it goes on, you can't stop yourself.

00:31:55.940 And you can tell the sadistic glee that the adult—like, they're violating you.

00:32:00.340 It's an utter violation.

00:32:01.860 Yes.

00:32:02.240 And, you know, you find out that any stranger is tickling your kid.

00:32:06.900 That's step one.

00:32:08.040 Oh, my God.

00:32:08.600 That's step one.

00:32:09.420 Alarm bells everywhere.

00:32:10.800 I mean, you would never allow this.

00:32:13.240 And for him to have admitted, oh, you know, yeah, I might have tickled.

00:32:16.320 It was a very playful set.

00:32:17.860 What?

00:32:18.600 As they're admitting that the woman who was responsible for keeping eyes on those children

00:32:22.580 was off gallivanting and talking to the crew elsewhere, not doing that job.

00:32:27.240 And that right about the time that Timothy came on as director is when they got rid of

00:32:32.260 the iPads that the parents were allowed to look at and watch the children at every moment.

00:32:37.660 Somehow they decided that those—he claims it wasn't his decision.

00:32:40.800 But it happened right when he came on board.

00:32:42.120 He's only the director.

00:32:43.380 Yeah.

00:32:43.660 He's only running that set, not his decision.

00:32:45.820 So now, coincidentally, no one can watch the children if the woman's not got eyes on 1.00

00:32:50.920 them, and she's admitted that she hasn't.

00:32:52.580 And at the same time, Maureen, there was a complaint made by a hair and makeup person

00:32:57.700 about conduct.

00:32:59.180 She saw Timothy Busveld do toward the boys in the trailer where she saw him kissing their

00:33:06.100 faces and touching, like, their heads, their hair in a way that made her uncomfortable

00:33:10.460 without knowing any of this.

00:33:12.960 This is before any of this had broken.

00:33:14.600 Women always know. 1.00

00:33:15.580 She knew, and she complained, which is an act of bravery, anonymously, but she did complain

00:33:21.220 saying, there's something off about this guy.

00:33:23.720 He's creepy, and I don't like the way he's interacting with these boys long before the

00:33:27.780 mother came forward. 0.96

00:33:28.580 It doesn't mean he's guilty.

00:33:29.840 He deserves his day in court.

00:33:31.020 But it's ridiculous that Melissa Gilbert thinks she can just post pictures of butter and milk 0.85

00:33:37.100 and have us go buy her lifestyle brand while her husband's accused of genuinely hurting

00:33:44.460 two little boys, one of whom, the therapist says, has constant nightmares, bedwetting, and

00:33:50.260 PTSD to this day.

00:33:51.960 They're only 11 now.

00:33:53.900 There's a third accuser that just came forward.

00:33:56.900 The father, this broke.

00:33:58.260 He filed on Wednesday, so years, several years ago, his then 16-year-old daughter was auditioning

00:34:05.100 for Timothy Busfield's theater company in San Francisco or something.

00:34:09.000 Children's Theater.

00:34:10.200 Oh, is it a children's theater?

00:34:11.620 Children's Theater.

00:34:12.020 Okay, okay.

00:34:12.400 We know exactly who we're dealing with.

00:34:13.860 I'm sorry.

00:34:14.760 My opinion.

00:34:15.820 My opinion.

00:34:16.580 Mine too.

00:34:17.320 So the father alleges that Timothy Busfield got this girl alone, kissed her, no doubt under

00:34:25.080 the guise of it's a scene.

00:34:26.580 Yeah.

00:34:26.820 It's a scene. 0.83

00:34:28.260 Kissed her, jammed his hands down her pants.

00:34:31.000 She was 16. 0.99

00:34:31.720 And progressed from there.

00:34:33.060 And when the father found out, went to Timothy Busfield, who, according to him, begged the

00:34:37.900 family not to press charges and said he would go get therapy.

00:34:41.000 And this is why these conversations are so important.

00:34:43.360 There is zero therapizing a child predator.

00:34:46.180 There is zero rehabilitation for sex criminals.

00:34:49.340 They have to be put away for life.

00:34:50.900 That's it.

00:34:51.420 The recidivism rate is like 100%.

00:34:53.240 Yes, you can take it to the bank.

00:34:54.400 And now Timothy's new expensive lawyer is saying, oh, that's totally unrelated.

00:34:59.000 You know, anything that happened 25 years ago with a 16-year-old bears no, bears not at

00:35:03.620 all on the accusations here.

00:35:05.600 Now, they're different.

00:35:06.920 Obviously, 16-year-old girl, and there's also an allegation involving a 17-year-old girl is

00:35:11.120 different than a seven-year-old boy. 0.99

00:35:12.600 They're both disgusting. 1.00

00:35:13.760 They're both abuse. 1.00

00:35:14.940 They're both taking advantage of a minor in a totally inappropriate way.

00:35:18.220 And the fact that this guy and his daughter let him off the hook from going to the authorities

00:35:23.260 and turning him in does not mean it was a nothing burger.

00:35:26.920 It means he, someone had grace for him 25 years ago, who probably is really regretting

00:35:33.260 that now that they see these allegations brought by these then seven-year-old, now 11-year-old

00:35:38.040 boys.

00:35:38.760 Yes, absolutely.

00:35:40.140 And I just, God.

00:35:42.540 So this was what was really, really just under my skin watching the Globe's red carpet and

00:35:47.200 the likes of Mark Ruffalo, like, hop over to the media, like, Mark, what's the button?

00:35:51.780 Oh, the button's for, you know, you got white supremacists and blah, blah, blah. 0.99

00:35:54.960 Pedophilia is so effing rampant in Hollywood. 0.98

00:35:57.960 Why don't you guys who kept your mouth shut throughout the Diddy trial, throughout watching 0.99

00:36:02.680 Cassie on a loop, and you kept your mouth fucking shut, why don't you address your backyard? 1.00

00:36:08.200 Yes, where's that pin? 1.00

00:36:08.800 Clean that up.

00:36:09.360 Where's that pin?

00:36:10.240 Clean that up, and then get back to the rest of us about how we should live and vote and

00:36:14.080 think.

00:36:14.420 A hundred percent.

00:36:15.180 We got to go through some of this Nickelodeon stuff that we have pulled, and I've been meaning

00:36:19.580 to get to.

00:36:20.200 So we have been covering this.

00:36:23.060 We had Alexa Nicholas on, and she was a child star on Nickelodeon. 1.00

00:36:26.920 She starred in Zoe 101, and she talked to us about a number of things that happened on

00:36:31.520 Nickelodeon, but Nickelodeon had multiple child molesters.

00:36:35.460 I mean, actual child molesters on set, molesting children.

00:36:41.620 Like, they molested, one of them molested Drake Bell, who shared in this documentary what

00:36:48.220 happened to him at the hands of this guy, Brian Peck.

00:36:51.500 Viewer warning, this is disturbing, but this is from a documentary that we discussed with

00:36:55.660 Alexa.

00:36:56.240 Let me just show you Alexa first, discussing the most disturbing episode of Zoe 101 that 0.93

00:37:02.560 involved Jamie Lynn Spears.

00:37:04.820 It's SOT 26.

00:37:07.940 There are these goo pops, and my character can't get it open.

00:37:12.780 It's not coming out.

00:37:14.040 And it ends up squirting onto Jamie's face.

00:37:19.900 So the prop, a person comes onto set with a syringe.

00:37:28.040 We all, like, stood behind the camera to watch.

00:37:34.500 It lands on her face.

00:37:38.400 So first it was Dan roaring, laughing, and then everyone kind of giggling. 0.99

00:37:43.560 We heard the boys saying, it's a c**t shot. 0.97

00:37:51.320 And I had no idea what that meant. 0.96

00:37:57.140 Once I saw it again as an adult was when that memory came back.

00:38:01.060 I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh.

00:38:05.220 Wasn't funny.

00:38:06.380 It still isn't funny to me, to be honest.

00:38:08.240 It's just like, that's a kid.

00:38:10.180 And it's so obvious what they were.

00:38:13.760 Let me give you another one.

00:38:15.040 This is Ariana Grande got her start on Nickelodeon, which a lot of people don't know. 0.90

00:38:18.580 But she became a child star over there, acting and singing.

00:38:22.700 And I'm sorry, this is so vile.

00:38:24.900 But this is all at the hands of this guy, Dan Snyder, who was running Nickelodeon.

00:38:29.200 He was the man over there.

00:38:30.920 He was never accused of molesting anybody, just to be clear.

00:38:33.560 But he was accused of creating extremely vile setups for young girls over and over.

00:38:39.320 And young boys, too.

00:38:40.980 And fostering an environment in which actual child predators worked all over the set.

00:38:46.480 So no one's been able to get Dan Snyder on actual charges of molestation.

00:38:49.880 But there's Snyder.

00:38:50.960 But it's very clear that he created a very inappropriate atmosphere.

00:38:55.140 And here is Ariana Grande, his biggest star.

00:38:58.960 And you tell me whether these are appropriate scenes for this young girl.

00:39:02.260 Sometimes I wonder if you can get juice from a potato.

00:39:14.820 Did that air on Nickelodeon?

00:39:17.900 Come on, give up the juice.

00:39:21.780 Yikes.

00:39:22.900 I'm thirsty.

00:39:23.980 In another video, Ariana's pouring water on herself in what seems like a very sexual manner. 0.88

00:39:29.020 And people started saying, this feels inappropriate for children.

00:39:34.200 Oh, my God.

00:39:35.120 And there's just one more, Maureen, one more.

00:39:37.980 Drake Bell.

00:39:39.300 What's the name of this film again, you guys, that we highlighted from Nickelodeon?

00:39:42.020 It was very dark.

00:39:43.980 Quiet on set.

00:39:45.720 Drake Bell appears in it and shared what happened to him.

00:39:49.520 There was a guy named Brian Peck on set, who I think was the voice coach or the dialect coach.

00:39:54.600 And this guy slowly, according to Drake, drove a wedge between Drake and his father, who was his primary caregiver.

00:40:00.220 And like, your dad doesn't understand you.

00:40:01.980 Your dad's not taking care of you.

00:40:03.320 He doesn't care about your career, whatever.

00:40:05.180 And Drake was 15.

00:40:06.560 He got Drake to sleep over at his house one night.

00:40:09.280 And ultimately, in this movie, Drake shared what happened.

00:40:13.500 Here it is.

00:40:13.880 I was sleeping on the couch where I would usually sleep.

00:40:20.080 And I woke up to him.

00:40:28.880 I just opened my eyes. 0.87

00:40:31.080 I woke up and he was sexually assaulting me.

00:40:36.640 And I froze and was in complete shock and had no idea what to do, no idea how to get out of the situation.

00:40:52.720 I had no car.

00:40:53.800 I didn't drive.

00:40:57.480 I was 15 at this time.

00:40:59.680 He's so apologetic.

00:41:00.960 Oh, this will never happen again.

00:41:02.300 I'm so sorry.

00:41:03.200 You know, I don't know what got into me, and I crossed the line, and this will never happen again.

00:41:11.040 The abuse was extensive.

00:41:16.340 And it got pretty brutal.

00:41:22.520 Why don't you do this?

00:41:23.680 Yeah.

00:41:24.320 Why don't you think of the worst stuff that someone can do to somebody as a sexual assault?

00:41:29.700 And that'll answer your question.

00:41:32.000 Hmm.

00:41:33.200 That's so dark.

00:41:34.800 That man who molested him, Brian Peck, was the dialogue coach at Nickelodeon.

00:41:40.960 He was found guilty of lewd acts with a child in 2003.

00:41:43.700 And then, unfortunately, Drake Bell was sentenced much later to two years of probation after pleading guilty to two charges against him relating to a girl he met online who attended one of his concerts in Cleveland in 2017.

00:41:59.840 And the charge was child endangerment.

00:42:00.840 And the charge was child endangerment.

00:42:02.840 So clearly, that was an underage girl, because this can turn into a cycle. 1.00

00:42:08.400 Mm-hmm.

00:42:09.400 And that's what was going on the set of America's premier children's programming network for years.

00:42:17.020 And I'm sorry, but it's like your reaction when I said that Timothy Busfield was running a children's theater was exactly the same reaction I had, which is, okay.

00:42:26.520 The same way, like, they become Boy Scout leaders.

00:42:31.420 Mm-hmm.

00:42:31.740 And they volunteer to help at children's charities.

00:42:34.560 Mm-hmm.

00:42:35.160 And pedophiles go where children are.

00:42:39.200 I'm not saying Timothy Busfield is a pedophile.

00:42:41.460 He's got charges against him that he'll fight in court.

00:42:43.780 He says the mother is a money-grubbing revenge artist who's pissed that he was the director of the show when her two seven-year-old twin boys were fired from it.

00:42:51.660 That's his story, and he has a star of the show, a female actress, who told the Warner Brothers investigator that the mother said that to her, that the mother said, I'm going to get revenge on Timothy Busfield.

00:43:03.820 And he claims he has a clean polygraph.

00:43:06.080 That's where he's going with his defense.

00:43:08.140 But we're broadening it out now, and you and I both know the way Warner Brothers conducted this investigation and failed to cooperate fully, in my view, with the police looking into Busfield is par for the course in Hollywood.

00:43:20.340 How did Nickelodeon get away with this for all those years, allowing so many children to get hurt?

00:43:26.280 I was going to say the same thing about the Warner Brothers, quote-unquote, investigation and the Warner Brothers lawyer once this was brought to their attention.

00:43:34.500 I don't necessarily believe Nickelodeon's cleaned up their house.

00:43:38.300 Why would I believe that?

00:43:39.660 There were rumors about Dan Schneider forever, way before this documentary.

00:43:46.200 Way before.

00:43:46.820 Everybody knew.

00:43:48.320 Everybody knew.

00:43:49.240 And it's the same with Bryan Singer, allegedly, the director, who allegedly had lots of sex parties in Hollywood. 0.98

00:43:58.840 He's an out gay man. 1.00

00:44:00.600 All these young actors who would cycle through, who wanted entree into Bryan Singer's world, into Bryan Singer's movies.

00:44:08.760 He was the X-Men director.

00:44:10.740 Very powerful guy.

00:44:12.540 Nothing's ever happened to him.

00:44:13.820 By the way, we just not—well, no, actually, Diddy does have allegations of child abuse against him.

00:44:21.120 And he's serving two years, you know?

00:44:23.900 Yep.

00:44:24.060 Like, so, here's another one.

00:44:28.320 This is Saw 21.

00:44:29.460 It's Leon Frierson of the show All That.

00:44:34.980 Let's watch it.

00:44:35.680 There's a new character for me on All That, named Noseboy.

00:44:41.440 Naturally, I'm in a superhero costume, which is just tights and underwear.

00:44:46.060 They gave me a prosthetic nose, like an enlarged nose.

00:44:49.040 And they put this same nose on the costume.

00:44:54.440 I'm Captain Big Nose!

00:44:56.420 What are your special powers? 1.00

00:44:58.140 You can't help but notice that it looks like penis and testicles on my shoulders. 1.00

00:45:02.780 Yep, it does. 0.99

00:45:04.940 I'm allergic to asteroids!

00:45:08.780 And the joke in that sketch is effectively a shot joke.

00:45:18.040 Frankly, it was just uncomfortable.

00:45:20.960 In the moments to myself, you would just be thinking, like,

00:45:24.440 hey, this is what we got to do to be on the show.

00:45:26.540 I always did my best to be a trooper, never complain,

00:45:29.680 because we knew being close to Dan could mean an extra level of success.

00:45:37.240 Mm-hmm.

00:45:38.340 This is sick.

00:45:40.300 It sounded like when he entered that room in the costume—

00:45:44.760 I don't think that was the character's name, but it was very close to it.

00:45:47.200 It sounded like he said, I'm Captain Dildo.

00:45:49.320 It's Captain Big Nose.

00:45:50.820 Oh, okay.

00:45:51.540 But yeah, and look, this is why—this is as serious as a heart attack.

00:45:57.300 Mm-hmm.

00:45:57.680 It's not time to be posting pictures of the butter in your refrigerator.

00:46:00.920 You cannot distract us from the absolutely vile allegations against your husband

00:46:05.000 that you were made aware of on November 3rd, two months ago,

00:46:09.140 by trying to redirect us to the, quote, Modern Prairie brand.

00:46:13.340 And by the way, you and your husband have sullied that brand beyond repair just by getting involved in this.

00:46:19.640 And by the way, also, I don't see a clear denial of the charge from 25 years ago.

00:46:27.300 I hear your lawyer saying it's not related to the current charges. 0.93

00:46:32.060 I don't—look, where is the explicit—she's a liar. 1.00

00:46:35.920 My team will correct me if he has explicitly denied it.

00:46:38.680 But there was that 16-year-old girl.

00:46:40.580 There was a 17-year-old who sued him and threatened him for allegedly molesting her.

00:46:46.440 He sued her law firm saying, you've defamed me.

00:46:48.880 He lost.

00:46:49.460 He had to pay them $150,000 and then settled with a 17-year-old.

00:46:53.140 There was a 28-year-old young woman.

00:46:54.920 He took out to the movie theater on a date back in, like, 2012, right before he married Melissa Gilbert,

00:47:00.060 who said he—okay, started kissing her in the theater.

00:47:03.480 Many women have been there, but then got so aggressive with her that she considered it a sexual assault, 1.00

00:47:08.140 shoving his hands down her pants.

00:47:09.340 She didn't want it.

00:47:10.240 She actually went to the cops.

00:47:12.140 They said, no, there's not enough here to pursue anything because, you know, you're on a date, whatever.

00:47:15.700 They didn't buy it.

00:47:16.680 But there's a pattern.

00:47:18.160 Most men do not have at least three females accusing them, 116, 117, 128, of aggressive,

00:47:26.720 inappropriate sexual assault, and then followed up with now this latest allegation.

00:47:33.400 Most men don't have one.

00:47:35.060 Right.

00:47:35.860 Most men don't have one.

00:47:36.840 And by the way, I was talking about this with Arthur Idalla the other day.

00:47:41.100 The New York Times, a few years ago, did, like, a real estate piece on Timothy Busfield and Melissa Gilbert's house in upstate New York. 0.99

00:47:49.020 And I'm just going to be a bitch about it because I think these people are disgusting. 0.99

00:47:52.140 It was a dump. 1.00

00:47:53.160 Yeah. 0.97

00:47:53.340 It was a dump. 0.86

00:47:54.100 It is a dump. 0.99

00:47:54.800 It's still there. 0.95

00:47:55.480 It's still there.

00:47:56.280 It's the same house that the feds raided.

00:47:58.240 And the New York Times was even snobby about it.

00:47:59.940 They were like, if we're going to be honest, it's more World of Interiors than Architectural Digest.

00:48:03.980 But the salient part for our discussion is in the living room, there was a wall.

00:48:10.180 And the art on the wall was a series of still photographs and Polaroids of multiple people.

00:48:17.000 And there were some younger people on that wall.

00:48:19.440 And I wonder if, like many predators, some of those photos are trophy photos.

00:48:25.660 I wonder if some of those photos – I hope that the feds are looking at every single individual that Timothy Busfield and Melissa Gilbert – I'm not saying she was involved in anything, but, you know, I don't know that she didn't know anything.

00:48:38.060 Also, by the way, in that affidavit, I believe it says that both Timothy and Melissa also took the parents out with the young kids.

00:48:47.500 Yes.

00:48:47.960 And that's also a way of trying to develop trust with the parents to say, you could trust us with your kids.

00:48:53.700 Yes.

00:48:54.080 You could leave them alone with us.

00:48:55.100 Okay, we haven't even touched on Jared of Subway fame.

00:48:58.760 Oh, right.

00:48:59.340 And what did Jared do on his downtime?

00:49:02.360 He would go from school to school to talk to kids about diet and eating.

00:49:08.780 And he would do whatever he could to get himself in front of children.

00:49:12.580 And, you know, we interviewed the woman who worked with the FBI for years and getting him on tape.

00:49:18.120 She was a radio host.

00:49:19.120 And she met him.

00:49:19.980 She got alarmed early on.

00:49:21.380 And she started to tape Jared and work with the FBI on taping Jared.

00:49:25.420 And she got his grooming on tape where she was not offering up her children for his pleasure.

00:49:33.340 But she was playing as though she would just because she was trying to get him on tape.

00:49:38.080 She wanted people to know what he was.

00:49:39.580 And it is the most stomach-turning stuff you will ever hear.

00:49:42.380 But he talks about how, yeah, get him talking about like R-rated things so that they can get used to hearing that.

00:49:49.860 You know, like, it is groomers do.

00:49:52.740 They often will involve other adults, whether they're knowing or not, about like getting this inappropriate talk in front of them or getting the child used to the predator being around them so that they let their guards down.

00:50:04.960 This is all—and I totally agree.

00:50:07.240 This is rampant in Hollywood.

00:50:08.920 I think we're only scratching the surface right now.

00:50:11.460 But we must continue to go.

00:50:13.280 And we can't be ashamed to ask these questions.

00:50:16.760 Offering the appropriate defenses and qualifications, we are not condemning Timothy Busfield before there's been a jury trial.

00:50:23.320 He says he's passed a polygraph.

00:50:25.320 We'll see.

00:50:26.140 All right.

00:50:26.400 Stand by.

00:50:26.780 There's a lot more to get to, including an explosive piece in The New York Times today on a horrific IVF story.

00:50:35.320 I, like, teared up several times when I listened to this this morning on their podcast, The Daily.

00:50:40.600 Stand by.

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00:52:43.620 It's a Maureen Callahan day here at the MK Show.

00:52:50.480 She's back.

00:52:51.160 She's the host of The Nerve. 0.99

00:52:52.920 Go and subscribe to it right now on YouTube, all podcast platforms, and at thenerveshow.com,

00:52:58.220 which is really your central receptacle for all of the offerings.

00:53:01.640 It's a huge hit.

00:53:02.680 Do yourself a favor.

00:53:03.740 Subscribe now on a Friday because then you can take in the nerve, the mini nerve over

00:53:08.340 the weekend, catch up on some old nerves.

00:53:10.340 It's been a very hard-hitting two weeks of news, and the nerve is exactly what we need

00:53:15.740 to have a couple of laughs, make fun of ourselves, and more importantly, others.

00:53:20.400 And Maureen is our leader, so she will take us through all of that.

00:53:24.600 And we have some of that coming.

00:53:27.100 But first, while we're on the more serious topic of abuse and terrible things happening

00:53:31.800 to children, we've got to get to Megan Rapinoe. 0.68

00:53:34.320 Megan Rapinoe, who, according to most estimates, is worth several million dollars.

00:53:39.080 I mean, she's probably worth 15, 20 million bucks, probably more, given all the endorsements 1.00

00:53:43.460 that she's made and so on, and got to the top of the sports ranks and decided to pull

00:53:48.120 up the ladder behind her because she no longer has to play on these soccer fields against

00:53:53.060 biological boys, but she wants my daughter to have to, and she's made that perfectly clear. 0.99

00:53:58.200 So now in the wake of Tuesday's Supreme Court hearing, no ruling yet, but it's clear the

00:54:02.960 high court is going to rule that the 27 states that have bans against boys participating in

00:54:07.460 girls' sports, it's going to uphold those bans. 1.00

00:54:11.360 Now in the wake of that, the ACLU, which argued, of course, against the bans, has released

00:54:16.880 an ad starring Megan Rapinoe, Elliot Page, who is Ellen Page, Naomi Watts, who has a child

00:54:27.020 who's declared himself a her, and Chase Strangio, which is the perfect last name for this person

00:54:35.260 who is a, it's a woman pretending to be a man who is also somebody who's argued before

00:54:40.180 the Supreme Court, and lost because they let their ideology drive their argument, and the 0.99

00:54:44.760 Supreme Court saw right through that shit. Here's a collection of them in an ad from the ACLU trying 0.99

00:54:49.680 to push for boys and girls' sports.

00:54:53.000 When you're young, you believe that you can do anything. And then the world tries to set limits

00:54:57.500 for you. Tell you what's allowed. What's normal. Who you're supposed to be. But on the field,

00:55:02.100 the track, the court, here, you get to be exactly who you are. Because at our core, we're still the

00:55:08.180 kids who just want to play. The go big game changers. The living, breathing fabric of this

00:55:13.820 country. Supporting trans youth isn't just about sports. It's about freedom. On and off the field.

00:55:19.540 It's more than a game. Shame on you, Naomi Watts. Shame on you. And shame on you, Megan Rapinoe. 1.00

00:55:26.220 Because of all those people there, you above all know what you're asking to do to little girls.

00:55:32.600 She doesn't care. No, they don't care. That makes me so angry. It is the

00:55:37.920 insistence. They insist upon this messaging that this is all just about being American.

00:55:43.260 They said it's the fabric of the country. It's the fabric of the country that is a woman 1.00

00:55:47.900 and our young girls have to have their rights violated, have to be placed in danger of sexual

00:55:54.680 assault. That story you ran like a week or so ago. Equinox.

00:55:58.780 Yes. No, Planet Fitness. The guy jerking off in the women's stall claiming to be a woman. 0.85

00:56:03.620 And the staff at Equinox was like, well, we don't really know what to do. 0.99

00:56:06.700 Are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah. Because they'll get sued. Yeah. They'll get sued.

00:56:10.100 No. So it was like we had Tish Hyman on yesterday. She got it in Gold's gym. We had that video.

00:56:15.440 That was Planet Fitness. I'm sure it's Equinox too. You can't go anywhere in California without

00:56:19.020 this happening to you because it's the law, thanks to Gavin Newsom, that these men are

00:56:22.960 allowed to parade right into our locker rooms and our gyms and into our daughters. Thanks to people

00:56:28.360 like Megan Rapinoe who have pushed for laws in the other 23 states that allow this. And it's honestly

00:56:34.460 like Naomi Watts. Okay. So she said, she's, I guess I think she's standing up for her quote

00:56:38.840 daughter. Who's really a boy without any thought for maybe I just try to support my child to

00:56:45.920 whom I've allowed this to happen, but without trying to hurt anybody else's child, but she's

00:56:50.260 not a thought for anybody else's child. She's going to roll in her millions and let poor kids 1.00

00:56:55.160 deal with boys going into the girls locker rooms and onto their fields and stealing their medals

00:57:00.220 and jerking off in front of them and saying they featured in here this, the athlete that 0.65

00:57:06.860 was the plaintiff in one of the Supreme court cases. It was, there was one from Idaho, which 0.87

00:57:13.560 involved a college student. And there was one from West Virginia, which involved a high school

00:57:18.040 student, a middle school slash high school student. And the, that West Virginia plaintiff was a young

00:57:24.000 woman, a teenager whose first name is Becky BJP. They were calling her. She's outed herself 0.99

00:57:30.480 and himself. It's a boy. Okay. And that, that boy dresses a girl is featured in this ad. And you

00:57:40.140 know what they forgot to mention in this ad, Maureen, they forgot to mention what this so-called boy

00:57:44.980 has been saying, according to the other girls on the team to the girls. But we happen to have it

00:57:52.060 because we know Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the girl. And they have a video

00:57:58.060 that they put out of this young girl, the actual girl named Adelia Cross, who talks about the

00:58:04.060 inappropriate sexual remarks. Again, this boy posing as a girl in this video made to the actual girls on

00:58:11.080 the team, including Adelia. Watch. I started doing track in middle school and a male student joined the

00:58:18.920 girls team and made really inappropriate comments and took me out of my own sport. And she lost out 1.00

00:58:25.460 on her equal opportunities to compete. She lost out on opportunities to move up in competition. But at

00:58:30.640 the same time, she was also being subjected to sexual comments from this male athlete. And so that forced

00:58:35.940 her to change in a bathroom stall because she felt so uncomfortable with this male having access to her 0.99

00:58:40.780 locker rooms. I didn't really know if I even wanted to say anything at first because I was told that

00:58:45.960 everything was like this is normal and that you're transphobic if you don't think it should be

00:58:50.660 happening. Adelia is telling us about the bullying that that she's enduring from him. And she tells us

00:58:57.920 one of the sexual comments involving his male genitalia that he is saying to the girls. And we were 0.95

00:59:06.000 horrified by that. Things that were, you know, really vile, really vulgar. You would hope that your

00:59:13.260 daughter would never have to hear. It would be from walking to the middle school to the track

00:59:18.240 field. He might come up behind and whisper it to her. He would say it in the locker room.

00:59:25.120 And in the girls' bathrooms were said, which is just the worst place to hear it. Like that's

00:59:30.120 supposed to be my safe space and it's just not safe at all. Good for you, Adelia, for coming forward.

00:59:36.680 You're going to win your case. Here, they were too polite to say it, but I'll tell you what they said,

00:59:41.000 what they said, because she did, she did detail it in her Supreme Court brief. The comments range

00:59:46.160 from BPJ telling Adelia that she had a nice butt to remark so vulgar that merely repeating them, 0.76

00:59:52.140 they write, is incredibly embarrassing to Adelia. During the end of her eighth grade year, about two

00:59:56.920 to three times per week, BPJ would look at her and say, forgive me, audience, suck my dick. There 1.00

01:00:02.660 were usually other girls around who heard this. Adelia heard so-called Becky say the same thing to her

01:00:09.560 other teammates. BPJ also made other more explicit sexual statements that felt threatening to Adelia.

01:00:14.480 At times, BPJ told her quietly, I'm going to stick my D into your P word. And BPJ sometimes added,

01:00:20.900 and in your, yeah, backside as well. That's who Megan Rapinoe and Naomi Watts chose to appear in an ad 1.00

01:00:30.680 next to, talking about being kind and standing up for human rights. Maureen.

01:00:36.600 This is why it's so important to completely, you know, a celebrity comes out and says, absolutely,

01:00:43.640 this is 100% the right way to be, think, feel about something. You're, really, you should probably

01:00:49.760 think the exact opposite. You know, this is such bullshit. This girl, and this is, this stuff trickles 1.00

01:00:56.360 down. Like, it's not just like, oh, a celebrity said it. Who cares? It's like an idiot. No, this

01:01:00.620 helps this sort of become institutionalized thought. She's at a school where she's told like so many of

01:01:06.920 these girls, you're the problem. You're transphobic. Suck it up. The real victims over here grappling with 1.00

01:01:12.240 their identity. The real victims over here saying to a young girl, I'm going to rape you. That's what 1.00

01:01:17.800 he's saying. Get out. Get out. And demanding access to her bathroom and her locker room where 1.00

01:01:25.200 she changes and gets naked as a young middle school girl. What the F are we doing? What are 0.84

01:01:32.040 we doing to these young girls? And the nerve of these Hollywood celebrities, these multi-millionaires

01:01:37.640 to appear out there. Never touch them. It'll never touch them. Screw them. I will never watch another

01:01:41.740 Naomi Watts film ever in my life. Fuck her. Nevermind Megan Rapinoe, who I can't stand anyway. She's, 1.00

01:01:47.600 she makes my stomach turn. All right. I want to keep going on a lighter note when we're still in the

01:01:52.140 field of celebrity, you had some issues with, well, that's when I get mildly Sarah, Jessica

01:01:57.880 Parker's, her, her latest, um, iteration of sex in the city. I've been enjoying your take. I never

01:02:06.560 have seen one episode of the, of the reboot, but I totally love listening to you talk about it

01:02:11.420 anyway. And then I know prior to this, I know your love of Carol Burnett. I know you, you revere

01:02:17.580 her. Revere her. And unfortunately, these two things came together at the Golden Globes

01:02:22.360 where SJP got the Carol Burnett award. And here is some of her acceptance speech in Sop 38.

01:02:33.820 My parents who made certain they found the money and the time equally valuable to take me and my seven

01:02:40.240 siblings to the theater, the ballet, the symphony, the movies, museums, and to make sure we never left the

01:02:47.340 house without a book who grew our imaginations and our dreams, who insisted that curiosity was the

01:02:55.620 gateway to a rich world who birthed my love of acting and provided a path to my 50 year, 52 year old

01:03:06.560 career. Birthed. She's so pretentious. She's so precious. She made her name and her money playing a sexually 1.00

01:03:17.300 promiscuous woman who was sleeping with half of Manhattan. And as I said on there, Hey, I don't judge 0.99

01:03:21.980 like live your life, but like none of these women ever caught so much as an STD. Yeah. Like a mild one. 1.00

01:03:26.740 You know, and they sort of, you know, anybody who behaved that way in real life would be

01:03:30.440 swimming with crabs. You're at least getting harpies. Like you're at least like, you know,

01:03:34.520 you're at least maybe getting an HPV screening. And on top of that, then they're, they're glamorizing

01:03:40.240 like materialism and spending beyond your means. And like the idea that like buying $500 shoes you

01:03:46.440 can't afford is just how it is. You know, I've discussed this many times. I met way too many young

01:03:51.020 women who came to New York city from points elsewhere and were like, I'm a Carrie. And I'd be like, 1.00

01:03:55.180 you're fucked. Yeah. Right. Exactly. You're never going to make it here. Um, but you know, 1.00

01:03:59.360 so she's been making the rounds for her, like that was the inaugural Carol Burnett award.

01:04:04.120 And much as there is online theorizing that Kris Jenner is buying Timothy Chalamet,

01:04:08.780 all these awards, including an Oscar. Yes. Right. I believe Carol Burnett, I'm sorry. I believe

01:04:13.680 SJP purchased that award. That was the inaugural. There's no way. These awards are bought and paid for.

01:04:20.420 We discussed this. We talked about it in the context of the podcast award,

01:04:24.940 which they, we were on the short list for that, but we had to pay all this money if we wanted to

01:04:29.480 actually be considered. And also it was made clear to me, then you have to actually have to go out

01:04:34.100 to LA and meet with all these golden globes, voters and executives and try to razzle dazzle them

01:04:39.940 and then pay more money. And of course I said at the time on my show, go fuck yourselves. Absolutely 1.00

01:04:45.360 not. It's my worst nightmare to have to spend time like that with people like that. We pulled our,

01:04:49.660 our show from the consideration. Amy Poehler won it. And at the time I did this on the show,

01:04:54.320 I didn't realize the New York times did this whole expose on the amount that Spotify is believed to

01:05:00.560 have had to spend to get her the award. What was it? It was some huge number. Steve, you looked at it.

01:05:06.380 Do you remember what it was? But they were

01:05:08.300 like over a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. Over a hundred thousand dollars to get her. So you can

01:05:15.780 imagine what's SJP had to pay to get, you know, the first inaugural, uh, I guess, whatever the first

01:05:21.380 Carol Burnett award. And then they go out there and Maureen it's acting, right? Like, Oh, my parents

01:05:28.800 said they birthed me and my love of the arts. And even though we were dirt poor, I went to the

01:05:35.060 ballet and the opera and the theater. No, you didn't. Cause if you were dirt poor, you did not

01:05:40.180 go to any of those events. The symphony. You fucking lie. You're so dirt poor. You have seven

01:05:45.040 kids in your family. Your parents are taking you to the symphony and the opera and like where? Like

01:05:50.120 they were sorry. They grew up in like bumfuck somewhere. No offense, but like we're, we're not 0.99

01:05:54.060 living in like midtown Manhattan where, you know, you're getting part of like a, a free, you know,

01:05:59.500 developing adolescence in the arts, whatever. Then my favorite thing about, so she's, she's,

01:06:04.300 she's always breathless. She's always, she's breathless. Yeah. So, so we bought and paid for

01:06:07.960 this award allegedly and we didn't know it was coming. And then we get up there and we're

01:06:11.260 breathless and we just sound like, she's always like doing this tick where she's moving her hands 0.95

01:06:16.540 out from her womb. Like, it's like, this is, I'm, I'm being really authentic here because I'm

01:06:21.700 talking to you from my gut. I'm being authentic. Where I birthed my babies except the other two

01:06:25.640 that were surrogates. No, no shame. But like, it's coming from here. It's coming from my solar

01:06:29.620 plexus. And then she's going on the today's show and New York live and all this bullshit. And you 0.99

01:06:35.380 know, she's really hawking after doing her victory lap for this bullshit. She is hawking, Megan. I kid 1.00

01:06:41.540 you not, a line of prescription. It's a brand of prescription. Oh, eye drops. Eye drops.

01:06:46.620 Eye drops. Called Viz. Okay. Which is a little too close to a slang word.

01:06:51.700 for things we were discussing earlier. It is. Yeah. So wait, now there is, um, what is it? Did

01:06:57.580 you say the, what, what is the number of the site, Steve? The 40 B is the today show. Okay. Let's

01:07:05.140 take a look at her hawking those. You probably don't know this, but Sarah Jessica Parker reads

01:07:11.940 more than anybody. I know more than you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're close. Maybe now we're back

01:07:17.200 because I was judging a literary word. So she said, I was sort of on adrenaline. Um, we read

01:07:23.000 about the math really, I think comes back out to like 172 books, but that's rereading long

01:07:28.800 and short list. Wow. And also reading along with it. But anyway, so as you were reading

01:07:33.260 and recently I learned about, um, these prescription eye drops, went to my eye doctor. He was excited

01:07:39.160 about it and he had been waiting for it and I, I started using them and it changed the

01:07:45.580 course of my day, you know, just in the ways in which those of us who reach for glasses

01:07:49.760 all the time, especially for, I've heard enough. Exactly. So, um, I'm done with Sarah Jessica

01:07:56.980 Parker. I really am like so over her. Uh, but I do want to stay on the today show for one

01:08:01.500 second. You'll be shocked, shocked to learn who, who showed back up on the today show this

01:08:06.120 week. Oh, is it my favorite? Yeah. Who just wants to spend time with her daughters? Oh

01:08:10.460 yeah. She doesn't really want to be in TV anymore. I know. Here she is. Let's roll 0.59

01:08:14.020 it. Sat 36. Okay. It is our first official day together. And right now Chanel and I have

01:08:22.320 no idea what's about to happen. They said, just read the prompter. So here we go. This

01:08:26.660 is literally in real time. Our producers wanted to celebrate the premiere of the new fourth hour

01:08:31.480 by passing the torch.

01:08:41.380 There is Hoda. Kathy Lee. It's really sweet. It's really sweet.

01:08:47.020 It's Hoda and Kathy Lee, for those of you listening. What a shock. Oh my God.

01:09:02.920 Oh my God. Can you believe I ever thought I could have a career there?

01:09:09.720 You know, it's, I think you had to go through that crucible to get to,

01:09:13.360 to this. But this is the cheesiest. It's, it's the most brain dead. So I have so, so like I,

01:09:18.740 you know, I watch this stuff with like morbid fascination. I really do. Cause I wonder what

01:09:22.360 the actual conversations in the control room and the, and the C-suites are about the talent

01:09:27.220 down there. Chanel, the new, the new diversity hire. Let's just be honest. That's what this

01:09:32.800 is. She's a dud. She's a dud. She has a charisma vacuum. We're going in on the, we went on 1.00

01:09:39.860 in on a thing on the nerve on Friday today. But, um, so then Hoda, who is not going to let anybody

01:09:45.160 else have that seat. She will not. And it's such an F you. And you know, like the, I think the exact,

01:09:50.560 I think that there's resentment about having to put this woman in that chair, Chanel. I really do 1.00

01:09:55.540 because I think they all fucking hate Hoda too, but they're letting Hoda come back on Chanel's first 0.95

01:10:00.520 day in that chair. It's mine. Put her stink bomb there. Be like, it's my, don't forget me. I'm 0.96

01:10:05.420 coming back. She'll never be me. You'll never, you'll never last. You'll never last. It's amazing.

01:10:10.620 They're fighting over this chair next to Jenna Bush Hager. Oh my God. Also an idiot. Honestly,

01:10:15.360 the dumbest dirt. Like let's face it. Never has anything clever to say. I know I worked across 1.00

01:10:19.600 from her for a year. There was never anything clever whatsoever. I don't know. She claims to be

01:10:23.500 reading all these books. They must be very surface level books because she's learning very little.

01:10:27.220 They're awful. You go into the bookstore and you see like a book with, it's got the read with

01:10:30.980 Jenna stamp. Like, you know, to just bypass it. That's how I feel. I just steer clear. If I see

01:10:35.740 that, if I see the Reese Witherspoon, if I see Oprah, oh hell no on the Oprah. Okay. And speaking of

01:10:40.620 Oprah, now we've got to talk about her. This is incredible. Okay. Oprah Winfrey has decided,

01:10:46.960 hold on. I need my glasses because I really do have to read this. You should get Viz, Megan.

01:10:50.480 Yeah, I need Viz. I need the Viz. Yeah. Yo, Doug. Okay. So here's the story.

01:10:57.220 Oprah is on a book tour again. Oprah is opening up, writes USA Today or people. We got it from both

01:11:05.160 about her weight loss journey, Maureen. You don't say. She never talks about it.

01:11:10.800 Never. It's like pulling teeth. She's opening up about her weight loss journey in a new book,

01:11:15.860 sharing how she overcame the shame of not being able to manage my weight. It's called

01:11:21.180 Enough, Your Health, Your Weight, and What It's Like to Be Free. Enough is a collaboration between

01:11:26.840 Winfrey and Dr. Anya M. Jostiboff, an endocrinologist and professor at Yale, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:33.660 Okay. In Enough, Winfrey recalls, quote, one of the most humiliating moments of her life

01:11:38.160 when Joan Rivers asked her how she gained weight on The Tonight Show in 1985. From there,

01:11:45.600 Winfrey became a running joke. Winfrey has previously credited GLP-1s for more than just weight loss.

01:11:53.080 She said it's helped her strengthen her relationship with her longtime partner,

01:11:56.040 Stedman. Where's Stedman? Where is Stedman, Maureen? Where is Stedman? We did a whole episode

01:12:00.940 on this on the nerve. We're still investigating. Yeah. We don't know. We've got the little dog

01:12:05.640 looking for him. I have updates. Oh, okay. So, but allegedly, allegedly Oprah has strengthened

01:12:11.720 her relationship with the, we believe, missing Stedman. Winfrey, let's see. It's given her more energy

01:12:18.760 and it's helped her consume less alcohol. Now, here's this. This is the best part. This is why

01:12:23.560 I, this is why we're doing this segment. She says, you all know to People Magazine in December,

01:12:29.720 I've been on this journey for most of my life. My highest weight was 237 pounds, which I have to say,

01:12:35.600 I call bullshit in. I think it was higher. I don't know if there is another public person 0.87

01:12:40.080 whose weight struggle has been exploited as much as mine over the years.

01:12:47.440 Oh, please. Exploited? It's her narrative. It's her favorite narrative. It's her favorite

01:12:52.320 moneymaker. Who is she kidding? Like, oh, mean Joan Rivers set her up for this and then the terrible 0.99

01:12:58.940 industry just kept exploiting it. I'm just going to like quickly toss to a soundbite of the exploitation

01:13:04.240 that she seems to have forgotten about. This is what 67 pounds of fat looks like.

01:13:12.660 I can't. Yeah, we're looking at a skinny Oprah. Now, when you talk about Jimmy, is this gross or what?

01:13:19.440 It is amazing to me that I can't lift it, but I used to carry it around every day.

01:13:24.200 Who were the people who exploited her, Maureen? You know, that was before a GLP one existed.

01:13:29.820 Yeah, she did it. She did it somehow, you know. Oh, but now the whole theory of this book,

01:13:34.240 is obesity is a disease that happens to you. And all those efforts were for not,

01:13:41.000 not because she doesn't have willpower, but because she has a disease that made her eat. 0.99

01:13:46.180 By the way, this book is bullshit because she didn't, she didn't collaborate on it. I got the 0.98

01:13:50.260 book. She wrote a forward that's like three and a half pages long. And the doc who like is kind of

01:13:55.960 in her shadow at all of these like, you know, media appearances, she wrote the actual book.

01:14:00.580 Oh, no way. Oh, of course. What am I saying?

01:14:03.080 Graphics. So Oprah, again, is shilling a bunch of bullshit. And you can't also posit yourself as 1.00

01:14:09.500 like, and as Gail will frequently remind us, as America's foremost influencer and like the person

01:14:15.260 who moves the needle culturally and be like, Joan Rivers victimized me. You know, if you can't take

01:14:20.860 Joan Rivers, you have no business being in the spotlight.

01:14:23.060 Joan Rivers victimized all of us. It was a badge of honor to be made fun of by her. 1.00

01:14:28.840 Like Don Rickles.

01:14:29.560 Yes.

01:14:29.760 She was a legend.

01:14:30.740 You wanted it.

01:14:31.360 She was so smart. Like, yeah.

01:14:32.800 I'll never forget this one episode. She was on Fox and Friends and I was hosting America's

01:14:36.180 Newsroom with Hemmer and they said, you know, we got to go, Joan. She was the last said we

01:14:39.500 had a Fox and Friends. So it was like a moment before I came on it. They're like, we got to go.

01:14:42.680 And we're tossing to now to Bill Hemmer and Megyn Kelly. And she was like, Megyn Kelly,

01:14:46.340 that bitch. I was like, I've arrived. I've arrived. It was like, it was a compliment. 1.00

01:14:51.960 It's a total compliment. I don't know if I told you this, but I, when I was back at the

01:14:55.980 New York Post, I did a phone interview with Don Rickles once and I, he got on the phone.

01:14:59.900 I said, hi, this is Maureen Callahan at the Post. He goes, Maureen Callahan. He's like,

01:15:03.960 where's your father right now? Falling off a bar stool somewhere. I died. I died.

01:15:09.700 I mean, we're talking about the Irish now. So I believe you mean to say talking about my

01:15:13.520 dad falling off the bar stool somewhere. We have to go slip into the dialect, just like 1.00

01:15:19.720 A. Martinez. Exactly. You know that guy on a news channel four? This makes me think of that.

01:15:25.560 His name is Gabby Acevedo. Okay. He's been doing news for news for New York city for like 25 years.

01:15:32.800 His accent is so thick. You're like, dude, come on. It's a put on. Right. Like you've like,

01:15:37.260 you know how Anna Wintour has this mix of like a British and an American accent. You live here long 0.98

01:15:41.520 enough. Oh, come on. It gets diluted, you know, but it's always like very, very thick. We're always

01:15:45.740 very, you know, you're like, okay. It's an affectation. It's affectation. Even last night

01:15:49.340 we were tracking AM update and I said to my producer, Julia, who I love, I'm like, Julia,

01:15:55.520 because we're naming these illegals who attacked the ICE officer with a shovel. And she's got like 1.00

01:16:00.900 four or five names for each one of these guys. They're from Venezuela. You know, they take the

01:16:06.000 mother's last name. They take the father's last name. Then they have four middle names. I'm like,

01:16:09.540 they get two. Choose your best two. I don't really give a shit which ones they are,

01:16:14.800 but we are certainly not bending over backwards for the illegals to get their middle name, 0.99

01:16:18.580 their second middle name, their grandpa's name. Fucking two. That's what you get. You're in 1.00

01:16:23.060 America now. Okay. So that's Oprah. And here she is. There's one more of her. What is it? 35.

01:16:28.860 This is her on the view on Wednesday. So this is what I wanted everybody to know

01:16:34.120 that all these years I thought I was overeating. I was standing there with all the food noise,

01:16:40.060 what I ate, what I should eat. How many calories was that? How long is it going to take? I thought

01:16:43.780 that that was because of me and my fault. Now I understand that if you carry the obesity gene,

01:16:50.920 if that is what you have, that is what makes you overeat. You don't overeat and become obese.

01:16:57.840 Obesity causes you to overeat. Obesity causes you to have all of that food noise. And what the GLP-1s

01:17:05.560 have done for me, and I know a number of other people, is to quiet that noise.

01:17:10.800 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me just, and then she adds the following. Okay. She writes this. Okay. Oh,

01:17:17.520 she writes the medication helped her quiet the food noise, that relentless voice in your head, urging,

01:17:23.660 urging, no, demanding that you eat another cookie or chip, even after you finished the whole bag

01:17:30.520 or constantly distracted by trying not to eat. This is what people without obesity felt like all their

01:17:38.100 lives. She writes, that's a fucking lie. That's a lie. I have not been obese my whole life, 1.00

01:17:45.860 though. I was a little heftier when I was younger, for sure. I constantly think about food too. It's

01:17:51.960 called being human. It's a reward. We all love it. You eat out of boredom. I mean, millions of

01:17:57.680 Americans who have never been obese have that food conversation in their head, but they manage

01:18:03.280 to say no. Some have greater self-discipline. Some are more vain. Some just find a way to channel

01:18:10.340 their energy into something else. But I remember talking to Tanya Zuckerbrot, who started the F

01:18:14.660 Factor Diet, which I used to follow for years. And I love Tanya Zuckerbrot. And she's got a rocket body. 1.00

01:18:19.720 And she said that her number one irritant was people in her family or friends who would be like,

01:18:25.100 you're so lucky. And she was like, luck has nothing to do with it. You don't think I want

01:18:31.240 that dessert? You don't think I want those French fries? I say, no, I beat myself up to walk away from

01:18:37.840 the table and it's not easy. And look, I do like, I have nothing against the GLP ones, but I do think 1.00

01:18:45.040 this like, it's a disease. And I had no personal responsibility in my morbidly obese body is a cop-out.

01:18:52.820 Well, I also think she's just flattening the conversation in a way that's highly

01:18:56.900 irresponsible. I actually have a lot of questions about GLP ones. And I hear from people all the 1.00

01:19:02.040 time who are like, my side effects were so severe. I wound up in the hospital. I thought I was going

01:19:07.640 to lose an organ. Kelly Means says he thinks they're going to be recalled.

01:19:10.320 I would not be surprised at all. And I think she's highly irresponsible pushing the shit. One 1.00

01:19:14.900 question nobody's asking her is, hey, Oprah, you know, you had to sell all of that steak you had

01:19:20.000 in Weight Watchers when you were representing them on the points system. What's your stake now in GLP

01:19:26.020 ones? You're such an evangelist for it. You're sitting here going, I got an email from a registered

01:19:31.600 nurse that I read on The Nerve the other day in which she said, we saw the shift. We never used to

01:19:38.200 see people coming in at 400 pounds, 500 pounds, 600 pounds. And it started in like the 90s, 2000s.

01:19:44.960 And she said, you wouldn't believe the way the patient rooms were left after these people left.

01:19:49.500 Two liter, empty two liter bottles of Coke. Oh my God. Just bags of like junk food. Like you're

01:19:55.080 telling me like it's morbid, morbid obesity somehow alights upon you. It is, her narrative is always

01:20:03.880 shifting with whatever circumstances benefits her. I know she saw yet another way to get herself

01:20:11.200 into the news and get her face back on camera, which is the only thing that makes her happy.

01:20:16.320 100%. And she used it. All right. We've got to get to Brian Kohlberger and this IVF story. Why don't

01:20:22.200 we take our quick break now? We'll get it out of the way. Love our breaks and our advertisers. I really

01:20:26.080 do love them. Can I tell you, I love them for a number of reasons. They've been very loyal, but whenever

01:20:30.100 someone tries to stir up shit in my life, they try to pressure my advertisers to like abandon me.

01:20:35.560 And no one ever has. I freaking love my advertisers. It takes a spiny, steely spine to, to back more 0.98

01:20:44.840 controversial news figures and they do it. So please do patronize these people because they're

01:20:50.620 the reason we're able to bring this show to you for free. Um, so God bless them. Grand Canyon

01:20:55.500 University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona believes we are endowed

01:21:00.620 by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

01:21:05.920 GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American dream starts with purpose by honoring your

01:21:11.180 career calling. You can impact your family, friends, and your community change the world for good by

01:21:16.280 putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's master's or doctoral degree,

01:21:22.600 GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your

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01:21:39.920 serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University, private,

01:21:46.280 Christian, affordable. Visit gcu.edu.

01:21:53.720 Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan is my guest.

01:21:57.780 Today, okay, we have like so much goodness to get to. We just discussed during the break how we're

01:22:01.820 going to have to go over today because there's too many, too many good stories. We haven't done

01:22:05.980 culture in forever. We've been talking about Minnesota and Venezuela and Iran. Okay, here we are

01:22:11.860 back where we belong. Crazy update in the Brian Kohlberger case. So the families of the victims have filed a

01:22:22.160 lawsuit against Washington State. And my sincere apologies to all of the alums from the University

01:22:30.560 of Washington, which I keep saying is the relevant university, and it's not. And the grads of University

01:22:37.500 of Washington are like, for the love of God, would you say where he actually was a teaching assistant,

01:22:42.680 which was Washington State? You are right. And I was wrong. And that was loose language,

01:22:47.080 which I now humbly correct and apologize for. So they have filed a lawsuit against the university

01:22:55.020 claiming that the university knew Brian Kohlberger was a predator, a dangerous person to have on campus,

01:23:04.460 and nevertheless, not only had him as a PhD student, but went so far as to employ him as a TA

01:23:12.560 in this PhD program of criminology. And they go through the litany of complaints that were made

01:23:22.960 about Brian Kohlberger by, I mean, more than a dozen female students and fellow teachers and professors

01:23:32.180 within his department. Brian Enten went through the whole complaint of News Nation. He does a great

01:23:38.020 job. And he outlined it in great detail. Excuse me. Here's some of that. Listen to Brian.

01:23:44.600 In August 2022, early in the semester, a fellow graduate student began leaving her office door

01:23:49.240 open because she believed this guy was going to do something inappropriate with a student and said

01:23:54.120 that Kohlberger struck her as a stalker or sexual assaulter type. Another fellow graduate student

01:24:01.060 described him as a possible future rapist. He was noted to be obsessed with studying sexually 0.98

01:24:06.080 motivated burglars and serial killers. One female graduate student reported that Kohlberger

01:24:11.200 would trap her in her office and try to talk to her about the Ted Bundy murders. Multiple female 1.00

01:24:17.100 students and staff members were so uncomfortable with Kohlberger's behavior that security escorts

01:24:22.540 were arranged for them after 5 p.m. One sophomore student reported that Kohlberger had followed her

01:24:28.860 and told her bosses at WSU about the incident. In response, they told her she should not be alone

01:24:33.880 with Kohlberger, suggested that campus security should escort her out and commented that she was not the

01:24:39.420 first to report such problems. During one of several faculty meetings where Kohlberger was discussed

01:24:45.700 extensively, one faculty member remarked, mark my words, I work with predators. If we give him a PhD,

01:24:52.980 that's the guy that in many years when he's a professor, we will hear is harassing, stalking, 0.92

01:24:58.380 and sexually abusing his students. Wow. Okay. So they now are accusing Washington State of negligence 0.97

01:25:04.960 and of violating Title IX, which is an interesting way in. They argued that the university

01:25:11.220 located just across Idaho's border with Washington State failed to take meaningful action after

01:25:17.260 receiving complaints about Kohlberger, at the time a criminology graduate student. They called the murders

01:25:22.020 a foreseeable and in fact predictable tragedy. The lawsuit claims the university received 13 formal

01:25:31.060 complaints about Kohlberger's inappropriate, predatory, and menacing behavior. Just a couple of

01:25:37.180 more things. Students, okay, they said he, according to the lawsuit, he repeatedly blocked exits, invaded

01:25:43.600 women's personal space, followed multiple women to their vehicles to the point that they requested 1.00

01:25:47.720 personal campus security escorts. You heard some of that. Students fled into bathrooms to

01:25:51.920 hide from him. One WSU employee even advised other employees to email them with the subject line

01:25:57.580 911 if they were in a situation with Kohlberger where they felt threatened by him. WSU employees

01:26:03.380 would often stay in the room where Kohlberger was meeting with students in fear of leaving them

01:26:10.300 alone together. These types of predatory occurrences happened from the moment he arrived in Washington

01:26:16.160 State. Maureen, this is very dark and there is a real question here. At first I was like, oh, I don't,

01:26:22.480 how can you blame the university? And the more I read, the more I was like, oh my God, the university

01:26:26.380 knew a lot.

01:26:27.020 Mm-hmm. Yeah, several things. I think also Brian Enten had talked about even local businesses had a sort

01:26:35.500 of alert system amongst each other about this guy. One, I think it was a local bar that had an alert

01:26:40.660 because he would come in and he would speak in very sexist, misogynistic ways to the women.

01:26:45.180 That. You've got at least two reports, one of like breaking and entering. It's believed he stole

01:26:51.600 a young woman's underwear and perfume. Yep. Okay. And then another woman called her boyfriend and was 0.90

01:26:58.540 like, there's a white like car outside. He's been stalking, this guy's been stalking. Staring in her

01:27:03.420 windows. Staring in her windows. So, you know, it sort of ties in a little bit to that clip you were

01:27:10.580 playing earlier, the Megan Rapinoe, Naomi Watts clip, where why this guy wasn't removed instead

01:27:19.020 of having 13 young women come and say, he's stalking me. He's following me out to my car.

01:27:25.500 He broke into my apartment. This guy's got like, you know, a no fly. He's on the no fly list at the

01:27:31.340 local bar. He looks crazy. It's like Nick Reiner. It's in the eyes. He looks it instead of removing him 0.97

01:27:39.860 because they were worried about a lawsuit. Well, now you got a fucking lawsuit. Yeah. Yeah. We're 1.00

01:27:44.780 going to, we're going to make sure that we just keep him, you know, we, we don't offend him and

01:27:49.420 girls, you know what? Call us when you want to leave for the day and wait around till somebody can

01:27:54.480 walk you to your car. Are you kidding me? It was to the point where when the four students at the

01:28:00.120 University of Idaho right across the way were killed, more than one of these women said, according 0.88

01:28:06.300 to the lawsuit, it was him. Like he was a suspect on the minds of some of these women who knew he was

01:28:12.920 a creep, who felt their exit had been blocked by him. One woman, he stared down in his class to the

01:28:18.960 point where she felt so uncomfortable. She went and complained. Like she, it was described as like an

01:28:24.000 act of dominance over her. I mean, quite clearly misogynist doesn't cover it, but he had a deep

01:28:31.380 hatred of women to the point where, I mean, Ethan Chapin was killed too, but he was a, he was just

01:28:36.220 there with his girlfriend. He was out to kill women that night in that house. And they knew it. 0.94

01:28:41.240 These women were saying he will be the sexual predator. We're writing about years from now. 0.74

01:28:46.620 And they're saying it to the university. They're saying you're teaching him how to do this. Yes.

01:28:54.100 This is the criminology, how the criminology department hasn't had his doors closed permanently

01:28:59.220 over there is beyond me. It is an obscenity that it exists still. He came in the morning after the

01:29:05.240 murders or the day, the school day after the murders, he had a slash on his face. His hands

01:29:09.600 were cut up. Oh, who do you think could have done this? Are you kidding me? Yes. And these women are 1.00

01:29:13.900 sitting there like, oh my God, look at him. His face is slashed. He's got cuts on his hands. And now,

01:29:18.500 by the way, that new detail, which we didn't know beforehand, does shed some light on the creepy

01:29:23.780 selfies he was doing with the thumbs up in the mirror. Remember in the bathroom,

01:29:28.600 he's all in white. He looks like an albino and he's like taking his photographs with his,

01:29:32.620 with his thumbs up. He's trying to get his hand on, on camera to make it look like it's not

01:29:37.520 scratched up at all, but you can't see the other hand and possibly he put makeup on it. But now it

01:29:44.100 makes more sense. He was trying to create some sort of weird alibi, like I'm fine. What do you mean?

01:29:48.660 There wasn't a scratch on me and who knows what he had done to make himself look like he was fine.

01:29:53.380 Um, Brian interviewed a camp, not at, not at, uh, these universities, but a campus security

01:30:01.860 expert because every universe, most universities have experts who come on and they actually run

01:30:08.260 down threat profiles of anybody on campus about whom they get a complaint. And he was talking about

01:30:13.940 how his university, which went unnamed when I think he said it was a small university in California

01:30:17.620 had a ratio of about one of these campus officers who would assess threats and prediction on threat

01:30:24.500 levels for every 10 students. So one per 10 students, which sounds manageable to me and how

01:30:29.820 the ratio at Washington state was grossly out of whack with that. It was like one per, you know,

01:30:35.880 several hundred. And he was like, there's no way they could keep up with, with things under those

01:30:41.560 levels. And then went on to offer a bunch of insights. Here's one of them.

01:30:45.860 We've got two reports of a stalker and they're both this guy. And this guy is, is studying and

01:30:54.560 getting a graduate degree, basically getting a graduate degree in sexual assault. In the complaint,

01:31:00.320 I found that the university's threat assessment team uses a, uh, uh, protocol called the waiver 21,

01:31:07.600 which is what we use. And it is a series of, um, a series of potential behaviors that you rate the

01:31:17.160 person on. Like, uh, is he professed violence? Is it, uh, mild, none, uh, medium, or is it prominent?

01:31:26.600 And you take all these things, you give them number values and you finish up with a score. I went through

01:31:33.020 the waiver 21, just on what I saw in the complaint. And this guy was way up there in threat, uh,

01:31:39.880 potential. Hmm. Yeah, that's disturbing. Um, I did this just off a complaint. These guys had this

01:31:46.840 information years ago. I'm looking at the waiver that they would have used. He had a violent fantasies,

01:31:53.380 preoccupation with it, um, stalking, menacing behavior, job problems, um, lack of conscience,

01:32:01.680 anger problems, substance abuse, isolation, history of violence, criminality, or, or conflict. I mean,

01:32:09.360 you got it. You've got to realize this person is the ticking time bomb.

01:32:15.120 And, and not only did they have him as a student, but again, they chose to employ him and in a way

01:32:21.740 forcefully subject groups of young women to him and, and underneath him, like in a, in a, yes,

01:32:27.980 he was in an authority position over them. Yes. I mean, they, they need to settle this case.

01:32:34.680 I mean, I, I would, Oh God, I would really love to know the institutional failures here.

01:32:40.540 And I really would love to know, you know, I think you and I talked about this, but

01:32:43.800 what makes this so, it, it makes me furious because women are, these things are still not taken 1.00

01:32:51.880 with the seriousness with which they should be taken. I don't understand what more these girls and 0.99

01:32:57.940 women could have done. I don't know where you go when the university's responses, we'll just get 1.00

01:33:02.520 a male escort for you. Right. Instead of saying, we're going to get rid of this guy and we're going

01:33:06.440 to have him on the no fly list and security will be all over this campus, making sure he has no

01:33:10.940 access anywhere. Are you, I mean, I know, right. That's not okay. It's not good enough. And you had

01:33:15.680 the one, um, I think it was a professor teaching in the criminology department who was creeped out by

01:33:20.480 him. It doesn't sound like he was her TA, but she made sure she, according to the complaint,

01:33:25.160 it's an allegation. All these are allegations. The university has yet to respond. We should

01:33:28.480 keep an open mind for their defense. Um, but this professor, according to the complaint,

01:33:32.740 would keep her door open because she was worried that when young women had to go visit Brian

01:33:38.400 Kohlberger in his TA office, something might happen to them. And she wanted to be able to like

01:33:43.900 save them. So she kept her door. I'm like, first of all, terrible, terrible position to put this

01:33:48.920 professor in this female professor. But how about these young girls? Remember in college, 1.00

01:33:53.720 like you had to see a TA fair amount, getting direct access to the professor was a lot harder.

01:33:58.180 Yes. And so they, they were forced to deal with this creep while at this university. And they're

01:34:03.840 all talking to themselves about how they're afraid of him. And the university, according to the

01:34:08.820 complaint, knew it. So I don't know, Maureen. And, and like, how did they wind up catching Brian

01:34:15.240 Kohlberger? Well, it was because of the touch DNA, you know, that he left, he touched that knife

01:34:21.220 sheath. He left that knife sheath in the murder house and they then gave it to the FBI. They found

01:34:27.620 the touch DNA. They uploaded the results to private databases ultimately and found a match to his dad.

01:34:33.900 And that's how they found Brian Kohlberger. Then they started looking through old files or complaints

01:34:39.260 that they had received. And they put together that the university, sorry, that the, that Washington

01:34:44.500 State University, a campus police had said, there is somebody with a Hyundai between the relevant ears

01:34:50.360 that matches the description of bushy eyebrows. Anyway, so they find Brian Kohlberger. Imagine

01:34:56.780 if the university had said, why don't we look to see what predators we've, we have on our campus.

01:35:03.560 Let's look to see if there's anybody here who's been accused of being a serial misogynist.

01:35:08.180 They should, they would have had a file from the sound of it, you know, as big as the Webster's

01:35:11.960 Dictionary. They could have caught him a lot sooner. I mean, the family's not exactly alleging

01:35:16.660 they would have caught him sooner. They're alleging he wouldn't have been on campus to

01:35:19.580 commit these crimes if the university had done its duty to protect the community by not inviting

01:35:25.900 and then fostering the continuing presence of a female predator. 1.00

01:35:30.760 This is why I kind of don't want the suit to be settled because I want as much discovery as

01:35:34.800 possible because you can't tell me that there weren't people in positions to know at that 0.97

01:35:40.340 university who upon hearing of that crime thought, holy fucking shit, it's Brian Kohlberger and we 0.98

01:35:47.800 ignored every single glaring, waving, enormous red flag because we were worried that he would sue 0.99

01:35:56.980 us. Yeah. And now four coeds are dead and the blood is also on our hands. And I hope that family

01:36:03.260 get those families get everything they ask for. He was saying the security expert was saying,

01:36:07.660 because there is an allegation in the complaint that that is the reason they didn't do anything

01:36:10.560 about it. They were worried about getting sued, that there was actually a conversation about that,

01:36:14.200 that they were worried about getting sued. And yeah, it would have had to be sued by him,

01:36:17.780 like for getting kicked off, for being accused of being a predator. I've, we've seen this at other

01:36:23.460 schools. Sometimes you just got to take the risk of getting sued. You know, that the Washington State

01:36:30.780 University has plenty of money. Yeah, they have plenty of money. And this is not going to be a

01:36:35.100 multimillion dollar lawsuit that this guy gets. It's like, all right, you're going to have to pay

01:36:38.120 probably at most a couple hundred thousand dollars. How is that not worth it? And maybe

01:36:42.940 you do, but you've got 13 students and no shortage of teachers and administrators at your university

01:36:50.120 and, and men who are forced to escort young girls to their cars because he's stalking them on their way

01:36:55.580 out. And teacher, like half the courage, what kind of criminology department are you running?

01:36:59.800 What kind of institution of higher learning is this?

01:37:02.240 This, this, okay. So another point on this, I talked about two weeks ago, I don't know,

01:37:07.260 since new year, that interview that Brian Kohlberger's sister gave to the New York Times.

01:37:12.720 And you know, she's all like, oh, we didn't know. We just, in retrospect, we thought he was kind of

01:37:17.380 autistic, but that's it. The New York Times did not ask, it appears because they certainly did not

01:37:23.020 report on any Q and a or attempt to get information on the allegations that this sister, Melissa, who gave

01:37:28.380 the interview, knew that she suspected Brian of the murders and had raised it with her dad

01:37:33.680 prior to him getting caught. That's completely glossed over, not a mention of it in the New York

01:37:37.860 Times. But so all these women, pretty much anybody who came in contact with Brian Kohlberger on this

01:37:44.140 campus thought he was a perverted creep sex pest, but the sister had no idea. The sister was completely 0.98

01:37:52.720 clueless that he was just this sweet brother who had reformed his, you know, heroin addiction ways

01:37:58.160 and was flabbergasted, just shocked, Maureen, shocked. That's what the New York Times would have

01:38:03.380 us believe.

01:38:03.940 I don't believe a word of it. You know, it's, as we're learning, it's tangential, but as we're

01:38:08.440 learning more about that, the Nick Reiner case in the house, like that, that was a very sick house.

01:38:13.660 That Reiner house was a very sick house. Now we're learning he was placed in a conservatorship

01:38:18.040 back in like 2020, you know, that he had had violent outbursts that he had been threatening

01:38:23.780 before. You know, I don't buy for a second that the sister had no idea that her brother,

01:38:30.240 I would imagine that that was, that was one of those moments when a sibling leaves the nest where

01:38:36.660 like a sigh of exhale of relief was like, thank God he's gone. And I didn't know until listening to

01:38:42.300 your show that, um, he had called the mother, like demanding to speak to the mother in hours

01:38:49.640 and, and was talking to her allegedly from outside the crime scene, which he went three hours,

01:38:55.640 starting two hours after the crimes were committed from two hours after the crimes were committed.

01:39:00.840 He spent three of the next five hours on the phone with his mother.

01:39:03.960 You can't tell me she didn't know. She knew that's our allegedly reportedly.

01:39:08.680 Allegedly. She knew she knew. Yeah, I agree. And now the,

01:39:11.880 but the New York times wants to do a whitewashing for this family. I'm not saying it's their fault.

01:39:16.140 I'm just saying they know more than they're letting on. And the New York times should not

01:39:18.800 have led the sister get away with this. The New York times should have spiked that piece. 0.98

01:39:22.820 It was journalistic malpractice. Who's in the business of rehabilitating the

01:39:26.560 Kohlberger family. Aren't we all in the business of actually getting to the bottom of

01:39:29.820 what the fuck happened in the Kohlberger family? Well, you know, over at the New York times, 0.96

01:39:33.580 everybody's a victim. Yeah. Except like the ones you cannot at all defend the likes of Brian

01:39:38.740 Kohlberger. I mean, I'm sure they probably tried eight ways to Sunday to,

01:39:41.880 contextualize this within the world of autism and drug addiction. And you know,

01:39:46.860 they let her get away with that. Now in retrospect, we think he was autistic. What?

01:39:50.580 How dare you? And she wants to work in mental health. 1.00

01:39:53.300 Oh yeah. Okay. Sure. Um, if you ever walk in and see a therapist with blue hair,

01:39:59.260 and it's a female who's like in the mid twenties or pushing 30, you should ask whether her name has 1.00

01:40:04.300 always been whatever it is and say, was there ever a connection to the Poconos and the last name

01:40:08.800 Kohlberger? Um, all right, now we have a couple of more stories that we want to get to, including

01:40:12.600 this incredible IVF story that we've got to talk about. And then we will, we will take the time to

01:40:16.480 talk about this explosive allegation against Kirsten Sinema that has now just broken. Stand by for that.

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01:42:32.560 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel

01:42:38.440 on SiriusXM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered

01:42:43.600 with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people

01:42:48.080 like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics,

01:42:53.980 and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megan Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111, and on the

01:43:01.120 SiriusXM app.

01:43:02.120 My guest today is Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan. Check it out. Go to

01:43:12.460 wherever you get your podcasts and just type in The Nerve. It'll come up. Check her out on YouTube.

01:43:17.080 And thanks to all of you for joining us for this discussion. All right. I want to kick it off here

01:43:21.460 with Kirsten Sinema. One time Democrat, then turned independent. Then she left the Senate because of

01:43:28.820 bullying altogether. I was actually reliably informed by a very prominent U.S. Senator that

01:43:34.240 the Democrats, once she went independent, would make her sit alone. Like there's a little area in

01:43:39.520 the Senate where they sit and they eat lunch.

01:43:41.680 Oh my God.

01:43:42.220 Yes. No one would sit by her. It's ridiculous. But she's in the news for not such great behavior, 0.70

01:43:51.000 alleged behavior. She's being sued by the ex-wife of Sinema's bodyguard.

01:43:57.840 And this woman is accusing her of having an affair and basically stealing this woman's husband, 0.99

01:44:05.400 who was Sinema's bodyguard. Former independent Democrat senator, they're saying, let's say,

01:44:11.180 okay, accused of having a relationship with her bodyguard when she was in office.

01:44:14.680 The lawsuit, followed by Heather Amel, A-M-M-E-L, claims Sinema engaged in an intentional and malicious

01:44:21.420 interference in Amel's marriage to Matthew Amel, an Armory veteran who began working on Sinema's

01:44:27.820 security detail in 2022. By January, 2024, Heather Amel found that her husband was receiving signal

01:44:35.540 messages from Sinema that were of a romantic and lascivious nature. She originally filed suit in

01:44:42.320 North Carolina state court. Sinema removed it into federal court in North Carolina because North

01:44:46.520 Carolina has a cause of action. Not every state does called alienation of affection, where you can

01:44:53.200 potentially get punitive damages. It gives a spouse legal grounds to sue a third party for interference

01:45:00.260 in a marriage. Here are the elements of the claim. The elements are that the plaintiff and their spouse

01:45:11.560 were happily married and that a genuine love and affection existed between them. Two, that the love and

01:45:18.660 affection so existing was alienated and destroyed. And three, that the wrongful and malicious acts of

01:45:25.800 the defendant produced and brought about the loss and alienation of such love and affection. Now,

01:45:30.860 this actually seems tough to me because you got to prove that the affair partner ruined a previously

01:45:36.380 loving, happy marriage. And typically, if somebody is straying from their marriage, it's really not that

01:45:44.480 happy a marriage. Exactly. So we'll see. But it's at least a claim that you could bring. And they are

01:45:49.960 saying, oh, by the way, they point out that this is from Law 360. There was a case in North Carolina

01:45:56.720 involving someone named Brene Canard. And a state court jury ordered Canard, a TikTok star, to pay 1.75

01:46:05.780 million to Akira Montague, who said Canard broke up her marriage. In 2011, Betty Devin was ordered to pay 0.96

01:46:13.020 $30 million to Carol per year, the ex-wife of a man who at the time owned a trucking company. So

01:46:19.620 they're not kidding around in North Carolina. Like, if you get in front of one of these North

01:46:24.200 Carolina juries, which again, that's why Kyrsten Sinema removed it to federal court, it doesn't tend 1.00

01:46:28.580 to go well. Okay. So it's kind of scary. Okay. Anyway, the wife is seeking damages for her alleged lengthy 0.98

01:46:35.940 sexual conversations with her husband and coordination of trysts around the globe, all of which led to

01:46:43.000 their divorce. And I'll just give you one other thing, a couple of details from the complaint.

01:46:49.160 The wife, Heather, claims she found Sinema wrapped in a towel and texts, I guess, pictures of Sinema

01:46:56.040 wrapped in a towel and texts between them, in which Sinema called the idea of having missionary 0.94

01:47:00.260 sex, quote, boring. Said she, Sinema and Matthew frequently attended concerts together, and she

01:47:06.700 encouraged him to bring MDMA on Senate-related travel so that she could, quote, guide him through

01:47:12.600 a psychedelic experience for the lawsuit. I mean, at concerts together, hello, Coldplay.

01:47:18.180 Sinema eventually began paying for psychedelic treatments for Matthew for his PTSD from his

01:47:22.780 military service. She also purchased him a Theragun so she could, quote, work on his back.

01:47:27.640 This is all according to the lawsuit. We'll see how Sinema responds on the merits.

01:47:31.920 Um, their public displays of, uh, displays of affection were so frequent that Amel allegedly

01:47:36.980 stopped wearing his wedding ring so it wouldn't look like Sinema was putting her hands all over 1.00

01:47:40.120 a married man while they were at their concerts. Um, Heather Amel confronted her husband in October

01:47:45.420 of 2024. She texted Sinema on her husband's phone. Are you having an affair with my husband? You took a 0.84

01:47:50.100 married man away from his family. The two separated later that year. Heather Amel's complaint centers on

01:47:56.440 allegedly lascivious behavior, but she includes instances like accompanying her husband, she did,

01:48:01.600 and Sinema to a Taylor Swift concert and to Las Vegas. Sinema and Matthew Amel's relationship is

01:48:08.120 ongoing. According to Heather, they're still at it. And so your thoughts on whether this should be

01:48:15.340 something you can sue over and just on the thought of a sitting U.S. Senator getting it on with her 1.00

01:48:22.800 married bodyguard. Oh, worse has happened. I don't know. It's not a deal. Bill Clinton.

01:48:28.000 Yeah, yeah. Epstein. Yeah. You know, but so I have several thoughts. Okay. So I read this whole

01:48:32.760 complaint. You know, I love a legal document. Um, the, the, the, the thing about the missionary

01:48:38.340 sex is so funny. There's actually another detail in there that like she was talking about missionary

01:48:43.320 sex with the lights on as being boring. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I mean, any sex with the lights on is not 0.96

01:48:49.660 boring. And then, so I noticed the, uh, the original two, they were, they were women who were 1.00

01:48:57.120 successfully sued for alienation of where are the men in this? Yeah. Okay. The married person in this

01:49:02.500 scenario is the one at fault. Yeah. The one who broke the vow. He broke the vow to you. He betrayed

01:49:08.840 the vows of your marriage. He's the problem. Where's his agency? Misdirected anger. You know what I mean?

01:49:14.480 Like I'm going to go after her and think about that because do you really, really want your dirty 0.99

01:49:18.960 laundry made public? They have two young kids. Um, I, you know, what struck me as really vile,

01:49:26.480 I mean, Kirsten Sinema, Kirsten Sinema, however you say it, she, according to this filing, when they,

01:49:33.180 when, uh, Heather was in mediation with her husband to, to separate the marriage, uh, she, 0.94

01:49:38.960 she sat in, um, the driveway and she sat in the, in the parking lot while they were in there.

01:49:44.060 Kirsten Sinema did? Yeah. Working it out. And then, um, I think when he was like,

01:49:48.760 he was moving out or he was coming to get one of the kids at the home, she sat in the car in a

01:49:52.980 cul-de-sac. Again, she's really inserting herself there. Like they took one of the children out to

01:49:59.240 like, you know, do something together. That's really fucked up and it's vile, but I don't think, 0.99

01:50:05.500 I mean, if you could sue for alienation of affection, like as a federal law, the courts would be 0.98

01:50:11.060 clogged. I know. Nothing would ever get done. I mean, let's be adults here.

01:50:14.360 I have to say though, that the, the thought of like the thought of sharing children with someone

01:50:19.920 and then having the marriage breakup and then, and because of an affair and then having to see

01:50:25.380 your husband's affair partner with your children. It's awful. Like at Christmas or Thanksgiving

01:50:32.840 or a birthday is infuriating. I cannot imagine the anger that someone would feel like, I think if

01:50:42.540 you could have a lawsuit, I think I can understand how people would lash out with whatever they could.

01:50:48.240 Listen, I think if she's going to sue, ask for more than 25 K, you know?

01:50:52.380 Well, no. So the, in order to get into federal court, there has to be a dispute worth at least

01:50:55.740 50,000 or actually, I think it's now 75,000. Um, so yeah, that's, so she has to allege that

01:51:01.440 those are the minimum damages. Um, we have one picture of Matthew ML. My team is telling me

01:51:06.360 it's a little weird. It shows him at a hearing and it shows cinema looking at him. That's cinema

01:51:11.840 with her darker hair. This is the guy with the beard. This guy? They're fighting over this guy.

01:51:18.020 He's kind of a schlub. According to the New York post, that's him. All right. Uh, like ladies, 1.00

01:51:23.400 this is not worth the fight. I mean, I feel like Heather, she may have done you a favor. You should

01:51:29.180 just consider it. Yeah. Consider it. She did you a favor that you want that guy back.

01:51:34.100 I mean, it's sort of the nature of a marriage that has an affair that it's probably over.

01:51:41.640 You know what I mean? Like whether you knew it was over prior to the affair, it's probably over.

01:51:46.560 Yeah. So it's like, I'm not actually saying she did her a favor, but in a way a favor was done.

01:51:52.580 I'll just put it. And to your point, like the, the, the beginning of that, that, um, motion,

01:51:57.700 you know, she says this was a, this was a happy, loving, emotionally fulfilling. Well, maybe to her

01:52:03.740 or delusion it was, but maybe to him, it wasn't, you know, I don't know how you prove what goes on

01:52:09.380 in the human heart. I think you'd have to, you'd have to have a scenario where it like,

01:52:13.240 it was indisputably loving and happy, at least according to every witness around and texts and notes

01:52:20.380 and like objective behaviors you could point to. And then you'd have to show, I think in my mind,

01:52:25.300 the best like scenario for this lawsuit would be a woman who was conniving to steal your husband, 1.00

01:52:31.340 which does happen. There are definitely husband stealers out there who are like, I want him. 0.98

01:52:36.720 And, um, you know, like Jolene, she could have taken anyone's husband from the Dolly Parton song.

01:52:43.540 Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene. Yeah, she does. But I'm just saying,

01:52:48.720 Jolene, she could have had anybody at the point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know what you're saying.

01:52:51.260 And, and really all Dolly could do is beg Jolene not to set her sights on her man. 0.98

01:52:56.160 Okay. But so think about this, uh, Diana and Camilla, right? Charles, Diana, Camilla.

01:53:03.060 Yeah. Yes. And Diana's the gorgeous young, has everything going for her. And Camilla is sort

01:53:08.260 of the more homely, like, you know, whatever. And Camilla won, you know, like Charles was

01:53:14.640 he was never in love with Diana. That's what I mean. Like, it's like, I don't like short of like

01:53:19.580 a, a minority report level where like they can get in your brain and your heart and your gut. How do 0.96

01:53:25.520 they ever prove? I guess it would have to come down to whether the woman who steals the husband 1.00

01:53:30.060 is a conniving bitch. Like if there's evidence, she's like, I'm getting him, you know, like somehow 1.00

01:53:35.140 I'm getting sort of what Meghan Markle did to Harry. But in this scenario, Harry would be married.

01:53:38.960 But don't you think Harry's already paying that price? Like I have to just think, let

01:53:43.200 it, let it happen. Go, go and let it all happen. It all sorts itself out. So I just a quick

01:53:48.620 diversion on those two. Uh, she's in the news today. Hold on because she, hold on. This

01:53:56.360 is an exclusive from Rob Shooter who appears on the nerve and his sub stack. Meghan Markle's

01:54:02.280 planning her first return to Britain in four years, but insiders say it will only happen

01:54:05.440 if her strict personal conditions are met. She's expected to join Prince Harry at the

01:54:09.520 one-year countdown for the 2027 Invictus Games in Birmingham this July, but only on her terms.

01:54:14.440 According to his source, she wants four kind of four floors of the Hyatt completely shut

01:54:18.660 down just for her. Extra security outside. Staff not allowed to look at her. She's in total

01:54:24.420 control. Another insider adds anyone who has any interactions with her has to call her her 0.73

01:54:29.560 Royal Highness, the Duchess of Sussex. No exceptions. I totally believe that. Security

01:54:35.160 arrangements are said to include 24 seven drivers, a fleet of luxury cars, and a police

01:54:39.480 export, escort from the airport to the hotel. This is not just protection. She's asking for

01:54:44.300 a fortress, bulletproof glass at the games, armed security everywhere she goes. She is

01:54:49.680 also flying her own chef, assistant, hair and makeup team, and four separate rooms for

01:54:54.120 her PR staff alone. Nothing will be left to chance. Um, who travels with their chef? I mean,

01:55:00.940 that's the next level and bulletproof glass, of course, because she really thinks that people 0.81

01:55:06.260 are much more focused on her than they are. I'm sorry. I believe every word. I believe every word

01:55:11.180 of that. I do as well. And I think that means that this trip is going to go really well for her.

01:55:16.140 She's really going to convince those Brits that she's a changed woman and they should really love

01:55:20.940 her. She's no longer drunk on her own wine. She's humbled herself. She's a woman of the people.

01:55:25.740 Yeah. I love the HRH detail because she's not allowed to use it. The queen, that was, that was 0.53

01:55:31.820 the, I don't know if it was memorialized in writing, but that was part of the deal of Megxit. HRH off

01:55:37.580 the table. She can use the Duchess of Sussex, but she's not supposed to use HRH. Right. Whatever. I

01:55:43.180 feel like people are over her. Don't you think she's like, they're over this bitch. I do, but I feel 1.00

01:55:46.440 to your point, like it's a, it's a dig, it's a, it's further, um, aggression against William and

01:55:52.860 Catherine. Oh, you say we can't use the HRH. Guess what? I'm going to use it. I'm just doing

01:55:57.200 it. Call me. Yeah. F you, you know, it's so, uh, everything about this woman is aggression. It's 1.00

01:56:03.420 just insufferable. She's petty. She's a petty person. She's a miserable person. Yeah. And the 1.00

01:56:08.440 title, my God, she's the kind of person who would pay to get a golden globe. Absolutely. All right.

01:56:12.880 Now we've got to move on to the story that I have been dying to do. I like an hour before airtime,

01:56:17.100 I was like, Maureen, we've got to talk about this. And we've both now gotten up to speed.

01:56:20.800 So about, it was like November of 2024. Hold on. I actually have it right in front of me.

01:56:26.140 Yeah. November of 2024, the New York times dropped this piece, but today, January 16th,

01:56:32.700 2026, they dropped the podcast with live interviews. Well, not live interview, but on tape interviews

01:56:39.140 of the parents involved. And it is a riveting piece of work. I highly recommend everybody

01:56:46.040 listen to today's The Daily. It was an excellent episode. And it is an episode about two parents,

01:56:53.720 um, whose names are, hold on, uh, Daphna and Alexander, who goes by Xander. They're married

01:57:00.640 to each other and they were trying to conceive a baby. They already had one daughter and they went

01:57:06.000 to the IVF clinic because I think the mom was in her forties, needed help. And she conceived another 0.98

01:57:11.000 child. She gave birth to the child, a girl. And they did notice shortly after the baby was born

01:57:18.240 that the baby did not look like them. They are, the mother is, I think they said she has red hair

01:57:24.540 or she comes from like a long line of red heads and her hair is more like light brownish red. 0.99

01:57:29.020 And the husband's more fair too. Their skin seems very fair. And, um, their baby, it, it would come

01:57:37.220 to look more so over the first three months, looked darker skinned and looked Asian. And, you know,

01:57:46.680 dark skinned Asian is not something a Maureen Callahan or a Megyn Kelly could produce, um, 1.00

01:57:52.900 if we're married to guys who look anything like us. So they started to get a little nervous as I

01:57:58.520 think any IVF parent would, because let's face it, it's not like having a baby naturally. We're like,

01:58:04.240 you know, damn well who fathered your child. Um, so they were getting nervous and eventually they 0.73

01:58:12.460 did decide to do a parent test, like a genetic test where they sent in for results and they sent

01:58:20.780 their baby's like cheek swab in. Then think of it like, what a scary thing to do? Because like,

01:58:27.020 what if the outcome is not what you want? Then, then what, what are you going to do next? I think a lot

01:58:33.200 of parents would just like never ask, but they felt like they had to, they felt like, what if this

01:58:40.200 is not our child and we've effectively stolen somebody else's child without any fault of our

01:58:44.460 own. And also what if the child we conceived in a Petri dish, we all know that's how IVF is done 0.82

01:58:51.720 is out there being raised by someone else. So they sent the cheek swabs into this company 1.00

01:59:00.020 that will run the tests. And the, the mother talks about how she called and said, when am I getting

01:59:08.220 the results? And they were like, Oh, so you know, we have them, but you'll get them sometime next week.

01:59:12.280 And the mother's like, please don't do that to me. And the woman was like, we'll have them to you in

01:59:18.380 an hour. And somehow they got like an envelope to them. Maybe it was just an email. I don't know.

01:59:24.680 But here's that piece of the daily podcast. Listen. So I open it up. It's a jumble of words

01:59:34.280 and numbers. At first, there's two PDFs. I lock in on one for the, you know, father, one for the

01:59:40.000 mother. So I open up the father one and I'm going through the numbers and I'm going through the letters

01:59:44.880 and the words, and I'm trying to make sense of it. And then at the bottom, there it is 99.9% positive

01:59:50.000 that the subject is not the father. And your reaction was really quick. It was just like,

01:59:57.120 what about me? What about me? Yeah. Cause I'm in full panic mode. I'm like pacing with the baby.

02:00:01.220 You're holding her and you're like, okay, well, what about me? Let's like click on the other

02:00:04.280 attachment for the mother. Then he has a big, long sigh without any words.

02:00:11.020 Yeah. And it said 99.9% chance you're not the mother.

02:00:20.000 Neither one of them is the genetic parent of Maymay. She's not the biological mom. He's not 0.51

02:00:28.240 the biological dad. And this beautiful baby who has made their lives so whole and feel so complete

02:00:36.080 and has brought them so much joy is really in a sense, a genetic stranger.

02:00:41.260 Maureen. It was, you know, I, I, I couldn't understand how the mother in particular was so

02:00:54.340 composed in retelling the story because I think your mind could go to some very dark places. Like

02:01:00.560 if the embryo wasn't accidentally destroyed, if it's not sitting in a freezer, it's been implanted in

02:01:08.120 someone else and who are these people and where is my baby?

02:01:11.960 Yes. And I think the, the very first thought I would have, which would be someone's going to

02:01:19.140 take my baby, like my baby that I carried and I birthed and I use Sarah Jessica Parker's favorite

02:01:24.940 word. Um, and that I've been raising and nursing for three months. They've had this baby. Someone's

02:01:32.140 I'm going to lose this baby. I'm going to have to give this baby to somebody because it turns out

02:01:36.860 she's not mine. And the thought of that for any mother would be totally devastating.

02:01:42.980 You know, I, I know it's a, it's a shorter episode, but I wish they had touched on this

02:01:47.420 now that you bring it up. She did give birth to that child. She carried that child for nine months, 0.83

02:01:54.860 10 months, gave birth to it, nursed it, stayed up with it all night. You know, that child was hers

02:02:02.600 in so many ways, that child was hers. And, um, I, when you, when you get to the point where they,

02:02:10.740 they figure out what's happened and the, the grief that comes along with knowing, like,

02:02:17.100 even though they knew like evolution kicks in, this is not our child, but this is our child.

02:02:23.100 Yeah. You know, I mean, it's the same as like an adoptive mom and dad,

02:02:26.260 100% feel that this is their child. They know biologically it's not their child,

02:02:30.480 but every adoptive parent I know says you lose that very soon after you get that child. Like

02:02:34.740 there's a little bit in the beginning, like, okay, this is not ours genetically,

02:02:37.720 but very soon after it's forgotten. This is your child. And, and also knowing for this baby,

02:02:46.540 you are the only mother. Yes. And you, you know, in your heart,

02:02:52.020 you are going to be torn apart from this child. Like this child's going to lose. It's the only

02:02:57.200 mother it's ever known. It's so devastating. Honestly, I listened to this episode several

02:03:02.920 times. I teared up and I have to give credit to the New York times. They did a great job

02:03:06.980 with the storytelling. And then, so now they know and they hire a lawyer who contacts the fertility

02:03:17.280 clinic to say, Oh my God, you know, they, you implanted someone else's baby in Daphna and the

02:03:27.200 fertility clinic goes back and checks its records and figures out what other transplants transfers,

02:03:33.160 they call them when they put the embryo inside of you. We're done that day. And they do figure out

02:03:39.200 whose baby this is. And now the question is, okay, we, we found, they call their daughter,

02:03:47.500 Maymay. We found Maymay's real parents, her biological parents. Where's our embryo? Cause

02:03:53.960 we fertilized an embryo too. Did it not take because you can fertilize an embryo and it can

02:03:58.860 not take like, I mean, for lack of a better term, it kind of melts or like it, it has enough

02:04:04.560 genetic defects that it doesn't like work out or you discarded it accidentally. Or did you put it

02:04:13.940 in Maymay's biological mom, which is what happened. So Maymay's biological mom, who is Asian, I think,

02:04:24.980 no, no, she's Latina and Maymay's biological dad is Asian. So indeed the baby that they're raising as

02:04:32.360 Maymay looks Latina and Asian because she is, they've been raising a white, you know, fair, 1.00

02:04:41.920 I don't know if she had red hair, but like obviously much more light skinned and light haired baby 1.00

02:04:45.940 who's a lot larger too than little Maymay. They've been calling their baby Zoe. And it turns out

02:04:52.560 they had similar worries about their baby because they too realized that this is a picture of Zoe.

02:05:02.360 Um, who doesn't look Asian or Latina. I know, but as sweet as they come and they had this worry in

02:05:10.920 the back of their heads, but they, unlike the first couple had not done anything about it. I'm sure

02:05:14.740 they were living in fear. It's just like the babies were only about a month or two old, right? I thought

02:05:19.440 they, I think they were three months old when they began. Okay. Yeah. And, but they didn't have to go

02:05:23.620 through the hellacious period that Daphna and Xander had to go through because they did not do genetic

02:05:28.740 testing. They just got a call one day from the fertility clinic saying, oh my God. I mean,

02:05:33.560 they had a terrible dose of news, but they didn't have like the anticipatory period that Daphna and

02:05:38.140 Xander did. They got the call saying, your baby's not your genetic baby. You do have a biological child.

02:05:46.020 It was implanted in Daphna who now would like her baby back and would like to give you her baby.

02:05:55.180 Although it wasn't really clear what the remedy was going to be. I don't know. The clinic didn't

02:05:59.220 actually say that, but it was just like, Hey, FYI made a mistake. Take care. And then they talk about

02:06:07.340 how, how things would go down. Like they decided to meet the four parents with the babies. I'm trying

02:06:16.240 to remember the second thought that we have, Deb. Is it from the meeting? Um, stand by, hold on. It's

02:06:23.080 okay. Let's hear about, let's hear it. Here's the second sound bite from the daily.

02:06:30.320 So we have some information that we found, uh, the lab has found her parents. They think they know

02:06:39.200 who her parents are. They are pretty sure they have identified who Maymay's biological parents are.

02:06:46.800 Wow. Now that couple also is raising a young girl who is the same age as Maymay. We don't know if

02:06:56.780 that's another embryo of theirs. If that is your embryo, if that is someone else's embryo,

02:07:02.700 we don't know anything about that other baby, but we are, are, are pretty sure that, that this is

02:07:11.920 May's parents.

02:07:14.500 So it turned out to be the case that their child Zoe was being raised by, um, they go, the, the 0.98

02:07:21.500 Latina mom is going by Annie for purposes of the story. And the dad I think is unnamed.

02:07:25.940 So Annie, who's Latina is raising Zoe, but Zoe's not hers. Daphna, who's the fair skinned redhead 0.92

02:07:34.360 is raising Maymay, who's not hers. And now they have to decide what to do. And they say this,

02:07:40.580 listen, this is in the article that was written up back in November of 24. On the last day of the

02:07:44.960 year, Daphna and Alexander stood in their living room, waiting to meet Zoe, their biological baby

02:07:49.760 for the first time. They could hear her crying as Annie and her husband approached their front door.

02:07:54.600 The sound was eerily like Olivia's cry because Daphna and Alexander have an older sister named

02:08:00.120 Olivia, you know, a first child. The sound was eerily like Olivia's cry at that age, as if emerging

02:08:06.040 from a time capsule. Listening to it crystallized everything Daphna and Alexander had been feeling

02:08:10.820 for the past two weeks, that there was a child out there in the world so close, but whom they

02:08:15.320 couldn't see or hold or comfort. They lived 10 minutes away from each other. Daphna bounced

02:08:21.580 Maymay in her arms as they waited for the doorbell to ring. Alexander swore a nervous curse and May

02:08:28.260 stared at him, a look of consternation on her face, reaching for her father with her tiny hand.

02:08:33.820 Both couples had made other plans that day for their older children because little Zoe had an older

02:08:38.700 sister too. Their parents knew it would be hard enough to manage their own emotions without having

02:08:44.080 to manage the siblings too. The bell finally rang and then Annie was inside, smiling at the baby in

02:08:50.560 Daphna's arms, reaching for her. I'm sorry, she said, weeping, her breath ragged. She kissed May's

02:08:58.080 cheek twice as to the baby she's been raising that isn't hers and buried her face in the crook of the

02:09:03.000 baby's neck. She sat down on the couch, her backpack still on. How are you? How are you? She asked,

02:09:10.360 holding May in her lap so she could marvel at her face through tears. So this is, let me correct

02:09:15.340 myself, this is Annie meeting her own biological daughter for the first time. Um, then they talk

02:09:21.700 about, about Daphna holding her baby, who's Zoe, for the first time. She was shocked by how different

02:09:30.040 Zoe felt, how big Zoe was compared to May. She realized that none of the clothing she had bought

02:09:35.440 for this daughter would fit. Soon the husbands were holding the babies. Both mother, mother's

02:09:40.820 gazes veered from the sight of their own child in someone else's arms. Think of this moms out there. 1.00

02:09:46.420 It's your baby. You've raised the baby. You carried the baby. You gave birth to the baby. You've been

02:09:50.460 nursing the baby for three months. Now another woman is holding your baby and you're going to have to 1.00

02:09:55.140 give this baby up. You are not going to be able to keep this baby. It's so fucking devastating.

02:09:59.780 Veered from the sight of their own child and someone else's arms to the sight of the other 0.98

02:10:04.320 child in their husband's arms. Each was doing the best she could to let the other mother have all 0.94

02:10:08.420 the psychic space she needed with her daughter. For almost two weeks, the families visited every

02:10:13.960 other day. Sometimes at Daphna's house, sometimes at Annie's house. Often the two mothers did what

02:10:20.300 Alexander came to think of as the mama dance. Each would go to change a child's diaper, then step back

02:10:25.160 for a moment. Is it okay if I, like I'm getting emotional, I'm thinking about this. Can you imagine

02:10:30.660 like asking for permission if you could change your own baby's diaper because you didn't know

02:10:35.120 your baby because somebody else carried it? Would you rather that you, they had endless tiny details

02:10:41.100 to discuss. Does she use a binky? How long does she nap? Do you hold her until she falls asleep

02:10:45.280 and then put her down or just put her down? What's her favorite bedtime music? How much did she weigh? 0.98

02:10:50.500 The couples were inventing a new kind of relationship as they went and it was far from a given that the

02:10:56.080 transition would go smoothly. Then they write this, on January 16th, the families each had their

02:11:02.420 babies. January 16th, which is two years ago, I think exactly. I think this was, yeah. The families

02:11:07.480 each held their babies overnight for the first time and Daphna started to feel the connection

02:11:13.240 she'd been longing to feel. When she gave Zoe, again, this is her biological child who she's just

02:11:19.660 getting to know, a bath before bedtime. She took her daughter in her arms, inhaled the scent of her

02:11:24.300 head, felt her soft downy hair. Somehow she smelled like home, like their towels, like their shampoo,

02:11:29.900 maybe even their pheromones. Daphna couldn't help thinking of May, 10 minutes away, now at Annie's 0.89

02:11:37.160 and her husband's home. May seemed farther along developmentally than Zoe and Daphna worried

02:11:42.420 that the change would be harder for her. You know, worried that like her maymay is going to know 0.98

02:11:48.280 she's been switched. That night, in fact, May over at Annie's house was crying inconsolably. 0.74

02:11:56.000 Annie was distraught that she could not comfort her, her heart breaking for a baby she already

02:12:01.960 loved, but who was sobbing she was sure for a mother Annie could not possibly be at that moment.

02:12:09.780 Oh my God. This is so heartbreaking. Ultimately, they wind up thinking that they're just going to

02:12:18.360 switch the babies and they're going to have to go cold turkey because it's just too hard on the 1.00

02:12:22.720 families to do this half in, half out thing. And they try that and it doesn't work. The mothers miss

02:12:31.300 the babies and they wind up coming up with like a way to live. It was around COVID, almost like on a

02:12:37.760 family compound or in a way that's very integrated. And like they, Annie allows her child, her biological

02:12:48.640 child to call Daphna Mama D. And they find a way to keep the relationship alive for both parents with

02:12:59.200 the daughter that is not actually theirs, which like is a, is a relief somehow. I mean, like as a

02:13:05.600 mother, I'm just like, Oh my, thank God. Cause you like, it just raises the question. What is

02:13:10.940 motherhood? Like what is parenthood? You know, is it, you'd want your biological child back. There's

02:13:17.540 no question. You'd want your biological child, but who is the mother of the little baby at three months 0.99

02:13:23.160 in? Is it that other mother 10 minutes away? Who's got the biological claim? Or is it you 0.98

02:13:28.300 who carried the baby, gave birth to the baby? I've been nursing the baby and love the baby. And the

02:13:33.500 baby loves you. What is parenthood? And Aureen, I have to tell you, it made me think about

02:13:40.140 surrogacy for like gay men. This has become more and more controversial. And I have lots of gay

02:13:49.920 men friends in my life who's, who've used surrogates to have babies. And I have celebrated 0.89

02:13:55.300 with them and sent them baby gifts. And I never really gave a lot of thought to

02:14:01.920 what it was doing to a baby to, to take it away from its biological mother. I mean,

02:14:07.980 the surrogate carries the child. Sometimes the surrogate is the biological mother and it's her 0.77

02:14:13.120 eggs. And sometimes it's not, sometimes they use a donor egg and you just find a surrogate who will

02:14:18.000 carry the baby. But you think about the baby who gets taken out of the mother, like the bio,

02:14:22.820 the one who birthed it, her arms and given to two people who are strangers to the baby.

02:14:30.520 I don't know. Like, I love my gay friends too much to weigh in negatively on it. You know what

02:14:36.260 I mean? Like, it's too painful for me to think of, what if, what if one of my sons ever turned

02:14:40.100 out to be gay? They're not gay. I already know they're straight, but like, would I be okay with 0.99

02:14:44.140 them just never having children? And I know people in the Catholic faith and the Christian faith feel

02:14:48.440 very strongly about this, that it's deeply immoral and wrong. But anyway, the whole thing just raises

02:14:53.540 so many questions about IVF, which I'm also biased on because I use. I know my kids are mine.

02:14:59.220 Raises questions about surrogacy. Raises questions about messing with God's will. And then just raises

02:15:04.680 questions about whether these fertility clinics need to be much, much better regulated. Because 0.99

02:15:10.840 the lawyer in the piece points out that they say, um, he's, they did file a lawsuit against the

02:15:16.920 clinic for medical malpractice negligence and breach of contract. I don't know where it landed,

02:15:21.020 but this lawyer who specializes in these claims says, um, while he's encountered fewer than 10 cases

02:15:26.540 in which an embryo was transferred to the wrong woman, which is, what do you mean? Like how many more

02:15:31.840 are there? Okay. You've encountered fewer than 10. That doesn't mean there are fewer than 10,

02:15:35.880 but he believes that the public becomes aware of only a fraction of the errors that occur in these

02:15:42.220 labs. And he points out that they're under-regulated relative to most medical procedures or says,

02:15:48.280 this is what a law professor says in the piece. And also they point out that the reason it was

02:15:53.660 uncovered here is because the race of the children was different. Exactly. Exactly. That was my point.

02:15:58.840 That was exactly what I was going to say. Right. I do. You're definitely right. They need,

02:16:02.580 they need to be regulated far more, uh, with far more scrutiny. I believe there have,

02:16:07.340 there's been at least one case of a fertility clinic where the actual physician running it was 0.76

02:16:13.280 replacing the sperm with his sperm. With his own. You know, there's that, um, I'm pro surrogacy 0.81

02:16:18.720 for whoever wants it. I think, um, it, it is complicated. It is emotionally painful. It's not easy.

02:16:27.080 I think when all parties go into it willingly and know that, you know, heartbreak is there. Yes. But

02:16:34.740 also the, to, uh, for people who are, who are so desperate to have a child and this is their only

02:16:44.080 recourse and there are angels among us who do it. And you know what I learned recently,

02:16:48.160 often, um, um, women who are surrogates tend to get pregnant in their own relationships shortly 0.74

02:16:56.780 thereafter. Oh, interesting. Yeah. They're replacing it. It's kind of, I don't know if it's a

02:17:01.900 replacement that might be the incorrect word, but it has created a sort of a need to have a baby. I

02:17:08.160 actually found this story at one of hope and I found it actually quite heartwarming because the way

02:17:17.280 they build the story and you're with these people, but Daphna and Xander in particular,

02:17:21.640 because the other family doesn't really talk the agony. There's a moment where Daphna talks about,

02:17:27.440 um, she's got Zoe back and may may's, you know, 10 minutes away, but she, she would keep it together 0.83

02:17:34.060 during the day. And then she would go into the shower and she would weep. And her husband describes

02:17:38.720 the sounds as like a wounded animal. Like winning. Yeah. And that, and that she, at some point she had

02:17:44.860 like a moment where she said to herself, I have to be there for Zoe, you know, because Zoe,

02:17:49.420 Zoe got very, Zoe started crying when Daphna left the house for a minute to throw the trash out. 0.98

02:17:54.520 And she came back and Zoe was hysterical and she was like, that's it. But that they all,

02:17:58.520 like every person in the story seems like a wonderful person. They do. They seem like really

02:18:02.620 good people. They came together. The mothers each, it could have, one of the mothers could have been

02:18:07.420 like, you know, completely acrimonious, bitter. I'm not giving you any access to this kid. It's mine.

02:18:12.480 You know, all of those horrible thoughts. And instead these girls will grow up knowing each

02:18:16.880 other. They said they're like sisters now. Yes. And it's such a wonderful, beautiful,

02:18:22.060 it's like the best of humanity. It's the best possible outcome it could be. Yeah. Under the

02:18:27.280 circumstances. Yeah. I mean, they, they were very lucky. Here's a picture of the two girls for the

02:18:32.840 listening audience. It just shows a girl with blonde hair on the left and a girl with darker hair on the

02:18:36.920 right playing with a little doll setter. Barbie said, I can't quite make it out from the pick from here.

02:18:42.040 But the, in a way it's, it's like, like, God forbid they had found out that their biological

02:18:50.000 daughter, that that, that her embryo had been lost. I know. Right. Like, and they just had to give up

02:18:57.600 their baby. Yeah. And not have a baby. Yeah. You know, that's the worst case scenario. I'm sure for

02:19:04.580 the parents when they're, when they find out they're not the biological parents. Now they're asking what

02:19:08.620 happened to our embryo. There had to be that period where they're like, Oh my God.

02:19:12.420 Oh, definitely. We, we could have nothing. We could have no daughter. And, and, but there's

02:19:18.040 something in them that, that just wanted to know, you know, they talk about like pulling the trigger

02:19:22.440 to get the genetic test done. And, you know, to your point about like this raising questions about

02:19:27.640 surrogacy and technology and reproduction long before surrogacy was a thing. And, and we're similar

02:19:33.860 ages. So you probably remember it. I think it was a tri-state story. I think it was in New York,

02:19:38.160 a New Jersey woman. Remember it was like. Switched at birth. Well, there were switched at birth stories.

02:19:42.420 That was the greatest story ever told. I mean, it was terrible, but like most riveting.

02:19:45.960 Yeah. No, the switched at birth stories that happens in hospitals too, where, you know, parents get,

02:19:50.200 go home and like, you know, a week later they're like, this doesn't feel right, but they're like

02:19:53.980 gaslighting themselves because how could that happen? You know? And the, the very, one of the very

02:19:59.800 first surrogacy stories I think in America was the surrogate Mary Jo who was like, I want the baby 0.86

02:20:04.040 back. Oh God. Remember? Oh my God. Yes. And it was like this long, protracted lawsuit. And it went to

02:20:09.500 like ideas of, should we federalize this? Should we outlaw it? Like, is this what's going on? You

02:20:14.320 know, but humans want families, they want babies and you know, everything's imperfect. But I, I actually

02:20:23.260 really did find this story like beautiful. It was, I can't get over the thought of, and like,

02:20:30.040 anybody's ever had a child is thinking of this too. Like three months in, you're totally bonded to

02:20:34.180 this child. Three months is when they really start smiling and becoming much more interactive and like

02:20:38.680 less of like a blob, you know, that you love, but it's not as interactive with you. Um, and so like,

02:20:45.080 that's when you truly like, you're falling in love with your child. I mean, deeply in love with your

02:20:49.040 child and like, you've got to give it away. And then I just don't know when you get a child given to you,

02:20:55.940 you know, sort of in return, that's yours biologically. Do you love it instantly?

02:21:00.240 Or do you have to start a new falling in love with that child? Because the child you love that

02:21:04.660 you are in love with is out of your house and now is going to be calling someone else mother and mama.

02:21:11.560 And like, when she cries in the night, you won't be there. You have to rely on another mother's 0.99

02:21:17.120 generous, loving nature, which you believe in. They both say that they, these moms fell in love with

02:21:21.460 each other too. But like the thought that I bet you, she did wail like an animal in the, 0.98

02:21:26.740 in the shower because I'll bet it took a while to, to fall in love. It's just called being human

02:21:32.800 with the new baby who is yours biologically, but like, I don't think you just fall in love

02:21:39.120 immediately. No, I don't think so either. And I think it also goes to, you know, in some ways this

02:21:44.280 is like, I think this story is so illuminating because even mothers who give birth biologically to their

02:21:50.700 own child conceived naturally, people don't talk about it because there's stigma around it,

02:21:56.220 whether it's postpartum or whether it's something else. Sometimes it doesn't click in right away.

02:22:00.380 Yeah. Sometimes it takes them a while.

02:22:01.700 And you're made to feel like you're a freak. What do you mean you don't love your infant instantly,

02:22:06.160 your newborn instantly? And it just goes to the, how complicated love is and maternal love. And

02:22:13.320 I just, her mourning this baby while she's got her own biological baby who she's having trouble

02:22:20.660 bonding with and who she's probably worried she's failing in some way. And is she going to imprint

02:22:25.540 on this baby some sort of, you know what I mean? Yes. And then you look at that photo and they're,

02:22:31.060 they have, they actually like, they have a sibling they never would have had before.

02:22:35.260 Well, I really hope that those girls are playing with the greatest Barbie set known to mankind 1.00

02:22:40.160 because their parents got ideally an eight figure settlement from the IVF clinic. I mean,

02:22:46.220 the negligence in this field is completely unacceptable. It just cannot happen. There

02:22:51.400 are certain fields in which there just cannot be negligence or medical malpractice. It's just a hard

02:22:56.800 no because there are real lives at stake and you know, you are playing, you're playing God. You are.

02:23:03.320 And I say this, yeah, with some judgment, but it's not like I'm condemning IVF. I'm a big fan of it

02:23:08.860 because I used it myself and I wouldn't have my kids without it. So I don't know. I'm sure it's

02:23:13.880 raising a lot for a lot of people listening. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. You can email me

02:23:17.000 megan at megankelly.com. I always pause because I always almost give out my actual personal email.

02:23:26.280 No offense to you, members of the audience, but like that would be overwhelming if we filled up

02:23:29.860 that one with, with the show emails. Anyway, I would love to hear from you. And also Maureen would

02:23:35.480 too. Maureen, what's your email? Maureen at devilmaycaremedia.com. Yeah. All right. Listen,

02:23:40.580 what a, what a Friday show. Thank you all so much for listening. This has been a long one and a great

02:23:44.580 one. I needed this one, Maureen. It feels very cathartic, doesn't it? I love you so much. It's

02:23:48.560 great to see you. I love you too. God, everybody have a great weekend. Thanks to you all for joining us

02:23:53.360 and we'll see you on Monday. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - January 16, 2026

Shocking Busfield Allegations, Oprah's Obesity Spin, and Kohberger and Sinema Lawsuits, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1232

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