Shocking Busfield Allegations, Oprah's Obesity Spin, and Kohberger and Sinema Lawsuits, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1232
Episode Stats
Length
2 hours and 25 minutes
Words per Minute
180.17603
Summary
On today's show, we have updates on the Brian Koberger case and the Timothy Busfield case, plus, Oprah and Kamala Harris are both on the road, we'll get to what they're saying. Meanwhile, people continue freaking out about the Trump administration's ICE operation in Minneapolis, we ve got more videos of leftists melting down, and if you believed everything on NPR, maybe you would also be in the midst of a midlife crisis meltdown.
Transcript
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.
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We have got updates on the Brian Koberger case and the Timothy Busfield case.
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Plus, Oprah and Kamala Harris are both on the road.
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But first, people continue freaking out about the Trump administration's ice operation in Minneapolis.
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We've got more videos of leftists melting down.
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And if you believed everything on NPR, maybe you would too.
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You would also be in the midst of a midlife crisis meltdown.
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Listen to this report from NPR's Up First this morning.
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And I should note the observers filming and making noise.
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Those peaceful acts of resistance, even though they're chaotic, are protected by the Constitution.
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But ICE has responded to some confrontations over the last week with a lot of aggression.
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Over the last five days, NPR reporters, myself included, we've seen ICE officers using tear gas, flashbangs, and pepper balls to disperse crowds.
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But the community here, you know, it's responding in quieter ways, too.
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Well, say more about that if you would. How so?
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Yeah, so if you drive around the Twin Cities, you'll see parents and other community members standing guard outside of schools and daycares with whistles around their necks.
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Residents are collecting food donations and giving rides to people who are afraid to leave the house.
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And these fears, being afraid to leave the house, they're not unfounded.
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NPR reporters have witnessed immigration officers stopping and even detaining people of color, seemingly at random, on the street.
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Oh, seemingly. What did you do to satisfy yourself, NPR, that it was just at random?
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And by the way, most of the illegals are indeed people of color.
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Okay, sorry, they're all coming from Venezuela, which means they're brown.
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It's not a racist thing. It's a country thing, a nationality thing.
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They stop the people who are on a list that they have figured out, got in, most of them under Joe Biden's presidency,
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who are here illegally, like the three Venezuelans who attacked the ICE officer two days ago.
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And, like, the ICE, you know, they appear, they appear to be stopping people of color at random.
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Meanwhile, just for good measure, here they are proving their, like, their bona fides over at NPR of, like, actual Latina and Latino knowledge.
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Here is the guy, A. Martinez, who wants you to know he totally understands how to pronounce the Latin words the right way.
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Venezuela's leading opposition figure came to Washington, D.C. to meet with President Trump for the first time and presented him with her Nobel Peace Prize.
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Maria Corina Machado is making a push to remain part of Venezuela's future after the U.S. military operation that led to the seizure of deposed leader Nicolás Maduro.
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Trump has sidelined Machado and is backing Venezuela's acting president, who, at the same time yesterday, was in Caracas giving a defiant and at times compliant speech before lawmakers.
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I'm Megyn Kelly, but when we do stories about Ireland, I'm not like,
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I don't know if that was an Irish accent or not.
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No mention in the NPR report of the ICE officer ambushed Wednesday night or of the crimes committed by the illegal immigrants ICE is lawfully targeting.
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Nothing about the violent protesters who literally ransacked a federal vehicle, including its weapons locker, grabbing the rifle, putting the emails and the address information for ICE officers out into the public.
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I didn't hear anything about getting beaten with a shovel and a broom handle to where the ICE officers in the hospital, nothing.
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It's just, they're just standing guard with their whistles.
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Joining me now to react to all of this and more, one of our very favorites and yours, Maureen Callahan is here.
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She's host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan on the MK Media Podcast Network.
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I mean, can you get over the NPR virtue signaling and lies?
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This story, I mean, as it develops, I find it really upsetting actually.
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You know, when you see this footage on the news that I know, the most recent one was that woman being dragged out of a car.
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And then you look at it and you're like, oh my God, this is horrifying.
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And then you read in a little bit more and it's like, well, was she attempting to block ICE from doing what they were doing by like, they're triangulating all these cars, citizens.
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And I feel like, you know, I did a column on this and I just feel like we are in this culture of escalation where the streets feel like unduly militarized in a way.
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You know, I don't enjoy seeing federal agents pepper spraying and violently pulling people out of cars, women especially.
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But I also don't like being told that these are peaceful protests when they're not.
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And then we learn also that the ICE agent who shot her had been dragged six months prior and in that horrific, horrific event probably thought he was going to die.
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And then so my question is, should this guy have been back out in the field six months later, you know?
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I just think there's so much that we don't know.
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And I feel like both sides are retreating to their corners.
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If you're on the right, ICE is completely in the right.
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You know, watching Tom Homan with Tony Ducoppo the day that this happened with Renee Goode saying ICE never makes a mistake, ever.
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You know, and then on the left hearing that ICE is just a bunch of white supremacist thugs who are looking for anyone of color to terrorize and brutalize.
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I feel like you don't want to get shot in the face by ICE.
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Don't inject yourself in the middle of a law enforcement operation, you fool.
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And everybody knows that these cops are being antagonized and might be a little on edge.
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Like in the law, we call it assumption of the risk.
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It's not that I have no empathy for her family, but I have empathy for them because they had a dumbass mother who made very fucking dumb decisions that got her killed.
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I'm one of those 67% more Republican-leaning people who are in favor of this.
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But as we pointed out on an AM update today and yesterday on the show, 53% of the populace is saying they're on the side of Renee Goode.
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Like they think the ICE officer made a mistake and that he should be prosecuted, the majority, and that's all Democrats and independents.
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So you're not wrong that people are definitely seeing it vehemently differently.
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The woman, I said that one woman getting dragged from her car was in Florida only because that's the most recent.
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But we did show a video yesterday of this woman getting dragged by cops like, I have a brain injury.
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You were like two minutes earlier, you were in your car antagonizing them and you were fine.
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Only now that you're caught and getting dragged off, are you suddenly disabled?
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But this woman down in Florida is, she takes the cake.
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Her name is Jennifer Cruz and she decided it might be a good idea to punch a police officer in the face as she tried to valiantly guard illegals down in Florida.
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Like you mess with a Florida ICE enforcement officer and you're going to regret it, which is exactly what happened to Jennifer Cruz,
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who, apart from being morbidly obese and in no condition to fight with grown, trained law enforcement officers, is rude and committed a felony.
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I mean, it's sad because this person considers herself some sort of weekend warrior, Jennifer Cruz, and she found out the hard way, this is a very bad idea.
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The thing that I really, I think about this so much because I do believe that most people, not all, there are definitely bad actors out there.
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But this is, I think, just the result of where certain media narratives have brought us.
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I think these agitators on the left truly believe they're doing the right thing.
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And some of them hate Trump and see this all through that lens.
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And, you know, I think we might talk about one battle after another later, which folds into this, really.
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But I think that they think they're really doing the right thing and that they're standing up for the most vulnerable among us.
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And I think those on the right feel like, no, we are absolutely doing the right thing.
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There are illegals here and there are bad actors.
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But, you know, I was thinking a lot about in the aftermath of Martin Luther King's assassination, height of the civil rights movement.
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JFK had been assassinated just a few years prior.
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And Bobby Kennedy Jr. was due to give a speech that night, the night of the assassination.
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And he only had a couple of hours to really cogitate and think about what he wanted to say.
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And what he did say was to advocate for calm and encourage, as the Greeks said, to make gentle the world.
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That would not be Trump's response to virtually anything.
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But we don't have anybody on any side, I feel, calling for that.
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I just feel like if they would stay at home and let ICE do their business, they'd get in and get out.
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If Minnesota would cooperate by turning over these criminals at the jail, which is what ICE has asked for, a lot of them get arrested for these child molestations and attempted murders.
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And instead of just calling ICE and saying, here they are, we detained them on a traffic violation, but it turns out there's a warrant for their arrest or we know that they're a criminal, dangerous, illegal.
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So Tom Holman has no choice but to go into the community and track them down.
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And these people playing, you know, wannabe cop are playing with fire.
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I just feel like it's very clear there is a duty by law enforcement to enforce the law.
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These people have broken the law, even if they've committed no additional crime.
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Like the NPR report talks about someone who's afraid to leave her house, so they're bringing her groceries.
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She is, quote, an asylum seeker, which is another way of saying she's most likely just an illegal.
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The odds of this woman actually crossing a point of entry and declaring that she's here for asylum are extremely slim.
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This is just what they say after they get in here, trying to play on people's heartstrings.
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There's a way of handling that, and it's not to just cross the border illegally and hope that no one finds you.
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What they do is in New York, they take over our schools.
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You know, you have to have 40 different types of languages.
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The American kids get the short end of the stick.
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Like, they're actually literally molesting young girls and killing them, like Jocelyn Nungare down in Texas.
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Jasmine Crockett is crying her eyes out over the ice raids and Jennifer Good.
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She's crying over Jennifer Good, or Renee Good.
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She didn't cry over Jocelyn Nungare, who's from Texas like she is.
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So it's just, to me, none of these people who have been murdered, brutally murdered by these illegals, gets a demonstration by these people.
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Where are they with their whistles when the illegals are crossing the border meaning to do Americans harm?
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It's just until they can get their faces on TV and cause chaos for Trump that they suddenly become these warriors thinking,
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it's civil war and I'm on the side of the good guys.
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So anyway, okay, this goes on and it's not showing any signs of resolving anytime soon,
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and nor is the rhetoric calming down at all, but there's a lot more to get to.
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So you mentioned one battle after another, which my team mentioned to me this morning,
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So it's the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, Sean Penn, and it's directed by Paul Thomas Anderson.
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Um, so it's not, the time in which it is set remains distinctly, deliberately unclear.
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Uh, he is a, um, they use violence to get their ends across, their message across.
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He is in an interracial relationship with a black woman, and the way the film opens is
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they are, uh, setting a bomb, uh, outside of a, like a federal agency, and they're running
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away, and, um, his girlfriend, his pregnant girlfriend wants to have sex as the bomb goes
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And Leo is sort of in this post-COVID, again, the time is unclear by deliberate choice, but
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he's in this sort of post-COVID ratty, like, uh, bathrobe throughout the whole movie.
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They're telling me that we have a clip from the, is this from the trailer, Steve?
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Our best guess, there's about 250, 275 people in there.
00:17:12.560
We need to be prepared for like 300 people by the time we get there, right?
00:17:17.100
Our cargo container, 18-wheeler, that thing only holds 160 people.
00:17:28.780
Got tear gas, I got whatever you guys need, but I'm, I'm unclear as to what the plan is.
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This is an announcement, a motherfucking revolution.
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That's, that's exactly what it is that makes it that I see.
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So I don't really believe that Paul Thomas Anderson is like, I've been working on this
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movie for 16 years and it just happens to be centered around the powder cake issue of
00:18:10.540
And this is why this movie is a lock for best picture.
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The girlfriend in the movie is Perfidia Beverly Hills.
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Now, Sean Penn gets an invitation and he's very excited to get this invitation to meet
00:18:32.220
with a white supremacist cabal led by Tony Goldwyn.
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They call themselves like the Christmas group or something.
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And I've read, it depends on the, on the reviewer and what outlet, whether it's a right
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or left leaning outlet, but some of them believe it's being played for camp.
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I read it as pure, like they were playing it straight.
00:18:51.400
This is a white supremacist cabal that wants all of the Brown people out.
00:18:57.080
And, and I don't, I don't know where the Sean Penn character is coming from because frankly,
00:19:01.280
this movie is a mess and I could not make it through it, but the movie ends.
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Sean Penn begins a sexual relationship with the Leo character's girlfriend, the black woman,
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And this is why Sean Penn's probably a lock for an award with that woman ramming a firearm
00:19:32.140
Like the weapon insertion is off screen, but like, yeah, it's, it's unmistakable.
00:19:45.080
I actually saw an interesting film last weekend.
00:20:02.040
And the whole time I'm like, is this about Trump?
00:20:04.960
Is this because the premise of the film is it starts off with, they're celebrating their
00:20:10.000
anniversary and they have four kids, three daughters and a son.
00:20:16.540
And the son is dating a girl just at the beginning of the movie who it turns out had been in Diane Lane's class at Georgetown.
00:20:26.940
And Diane Lane, when she meets her son's girlfriend is not happy because she didn't like this student because this student wrote a dissertation that was very subversive
00:20:37.960
and was proposing that we kind of overthrow the government and redo things here in the United States to where it's just one party and there's no more two-party system.
00:20:46.460
And they changed the American flag to move the stars right in the center of the flag as opposed to the top left.
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And she's like really triggered by this young girl.
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This girl's dissertation has turned into a best-selling book that sold 10 million copies.
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And then as the movie goes forward, and she's the cult leader, you start to realize it's about authoritarianism that she's proposing.
00:21:17.100
And a heavy-handed ruler who basically says it's my way or the highway gets rid of the two-party system because we've come to learn he can't stand those pesky Democrats.
00:21:29.480
And the only time they lift up the dress on what they're really talking about is there's a Thanksgiving dinner table scene where the mother, Diane Lane, says something about how we're with you to one of her daughters who's saying Thanksgiving sucks.
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And the parents show their politics by saying, we agree with you.
00:21:52.040
But, of course, the evil new daughter-in-law is sitting there nasty at the end of the table, was the cult leader who doesn't seem to like this, demands, I guess, that you like Thanksgiving and that you celebrate America.
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And she is the one imposing the authoritarian rule where, like, you're not allowed to be registered to the other party.
00:22:10.360
The Stassi will show up and actually arrest you if you're not.
00:22:13.380
People are getting killed if they have different—and by the end of the movie, I'm like, this is all about Trump.
00:22:18.420
This is all this big, subversive movie trying to say that this is Trump's imaginary future, even though they never mention him.
00:22:25.620
And it was the first time that I ever questioned whether Kyle Chandler actually is as hot as I think he is.
00:22:33.480
You know, he's also in the—he's in the new Ben Affleck, Matt Damon movie, I think, that just dropped on Netflix, The Rip.
00:22:41.940
He is the only male celebrity who I genuinely find attractive.
00:22:47.020
I like—nobody else does it for me, but Kyle Chandler is hot, and I loved him in Friday Night Lights.
00:23:01.060
I find Ben Affleck really attractive, but I can't help it.
00:23:09.400
So as between Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, you'd go Ben Affleck?
00:23:16.420
Like current Ben Affleck or the one from that military movie where he did look kind of cute?
00:23:23.120
Was that the one where he was in his, like, military—
00:23:33.780
No, but he says publicly he wouldn't act across from a Republican.
00:23:41.760
I'm an independent, but my sensibilities are conservative.
00:23:43.840
So there's an amazing director's cut or voiceover of Armageddon where the director and the actors give the color commentary about what was going on in any given scene.
00:23:58.620
I've never listened to one either, but I've listened to this segment that was cut out on YouTube that lasts for, like, maybe a minute or under.
00:24:04.820
Anyway, Ben Affleck is—you know, the whole premise of the movie is, like, an asteroid's about to hit the Earth.
00:24:08.920
And so the president and NASA commissioned a bunch of oil drillers to learn how to become astronauts and go into space and blow up the asteroid.
00:24:18.480
This is not—he was—there was a different movie where he was in a military—he was, like, a military guy.
00:24:22.600
It was—you guys do a Google search and tell me what Ben Affleck movie I'm thinking about.
00:24:26.900
So Ben Affleck's commentary includes this very salient and, I think, smart observation.
00:24:37.640
Why is it easier to teach a bunch of oil drillers to become astronauts than a bunch of astronauts who are geniuses to drill?
00:24:49.280
Rather than train oil drillers to become astronauts in, like, a week.
00:24:54.500
And he said—the director said to him, shut the fuck up, Ben.
00:24:58.140
And I thought it was very—when you listen to the way he tells—he's very bemused.
00:25:01.740
You know, he's like, I know it was a pain in the ass.
00:25:11.720
His leftist politics are definitely a turn-off to me.
00:25:16.380
We're comparing them because they kind of came up together, of course.
00:25:19.020
And they made a splash together in Good Will Hunting and both starred in it.
00:25:26.840
I just don't think he's as far left as Ben Affleck.
00:25:28.640
But I could be wrong because he was showing up at the Golden Globes the other night with a Be Good pin.
00:25:37.800
And I guarantee you, Matt Damon doesn't know shit about everything that went down.
00:25:47.020
Have you ever heard that guy, like, interviewed about real—like, he doesn't know a thing.
00:25:58.200
While we're on the subject of movies, where did I want to go with this?
00:26:06.180
So, there's developments in the Timothy Busfield child molestation accusation case where he was—I don't know if we call it on the lam when you're just not turning yourself in.
00:26:17.800
The arrest warrant went out Friday, and he didn't turn himself into authorities until—well, Friday was day one, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, day five, Tuesday.
00:26:28.680
He says it's because he was driving cross-country 2,000 miles.
00:26:34.720
B, if you really just didn't want to, like, get onto a plane for whatever reason, you would call the authorities and say, I'm coming.
00:26:40.980
I'm going to drive cross-country, and I will be there on whatever.
00:26:47.280
I don't know what he was doing, but that is not the behavior of an innocent man in my view.
00:26:52.340
But now he's hired some expensive defense lawyer who has come out, and this guy claims that he has passed a, quote, independent examiner's polygraph.
00:27:04.980
That his lawyer hired an independent polygraph examiner, and that Timothy Busfield has allegedly passed it.
00:27:18.840
There's no way that this lawyer would have hired somebody who they couldn't control to do something like this.
00:27:25.560
But that's what they're using to make us, you know, believe that he's innocent.
00:27:29.660
And here's a bit of—okay, this is TMZ with video from Timothy Busfield's lawyer's office in Albuquerque.
00:27:37.320
Is this a video we saw the other day where he denies it?
00:27:44.440
He had his first court appearance the other day.
00:27:46.780
And meanwhile—so that case is going to play out, Maureen.
00:27:49.560
But meanwhile, his wife, Melissa Gilbert, is on her brand website.
00:27:56.340
She's got—she's like a Meghan Markle wannabe with her little home-style brand, like Home on the Prairie or whatever it is.
00:28:04.560
So she's deleted her personal socials, though she was very active using them, trying to shame people like me, who she didn't feel talked about abuse in the proper way.
00:28:17.780
Now she's posting on her lifestyle brand all about what's in her refrigerator and having the brand people point out that Melissa has nothing to do with the allegations against Timothy, which is not true.
00:28:31.280
She is repeatedly referenced in the police affidavit in support of the charges, accusing her of being part of the grooming by taking these two seven-year-old boys out for dinners and buying them presents, not specifically saying that she knew they were being abused, but definitely pointed to her as fostering the close relationship.
00:28:50.980
So it's not true that she has nothing to do with it.
00:28:53.660
And she has nothing suddenly to say about abuse, Maureen.
00:29:03.300
I don't mean to be superficial, but I look at the two of them and they look like a colossal mess.
00:29:15.520
It speaks to just a sort of chaos, like an emotional, intellectual chaos.
00:29:24.000
If law enforcement knew where he was, we would have known.
00:29:26.940
And I think the feds raiding the House upstate, ramming their way in.
00:29:32.560
I think that was an F you to those two for him being wherever he was.
00:29:38.480
You know, as you said, innocent people don't run.
00:29:43.640
She then deletes her Instagram account, but then reactivates the modern prairie, whatever her thing is, to show us the contents of her refrigerator as one does when one's husband is facing multiple accounts of child abuse.
00:30:02.320
That police affidavit, by the way, I believe the part where Melissa—well, Melissa's involved, too, because when the police in Albuquerque were interviewing Timothy in New York via speakerphone, he said, Melissa is here with me.
00:30:21.400
Heard—you read his denial, it's like it's all over the place.
00:30:26.120
Yeah, I definitely would have touched those kids.
00:30:28.600
Are you allowed to touch those kids is the question from the authorities?
00:30:31.740
Well, no, you're definitely not allowed to touch the kids.
00:30:37.460
The father of those boys wanted me to hug them.
00:30:46.480
The ones that you just admitted playfully tickling?
00:30:54.020
Can you imagine someone playfully tickling your seven-year-old boy who—
00:30:59.080
There is no reason an adult should be putting hands on a child that is not their own.
00:31:04.180
And especially everybody knows that, quote, playful tickling of another man's son is inappropriate
00:31:11.500
for you to be doing as a grown man and is considered a grooming behavior.
00:31:17.500
I had a distant relative, distant, distant, who we all knew there was something deeply
00:31:25.120
And clue number one, he lived in Southeast Asia and, you know, never came back.
00:31:29.780
But when he would come over, and this was, this was, again, this was before, like, this conversation
00:31:35.080
was, like, just part of our, like, we all are very fluent in what this stuff is now, would
00:31:43.060
And I knew it was so fucked up and disturbing because it's, like, you're laughing, but it's
00:31:52.540
And the longer it goes on, you can't stop yourself.
00:31:55.940
And you can tell the sadistic glee that the adult—like, they're violating you.
00:32:02.240
And, you know, you find out that any stranger is tickling your kid.
00:32:13.240
And for him to have admitted, oh, you know, yeah, I might have tickled.
00:32:18.600
As they're admitting that the woman who was responsible for keeping eyes on those children
00:32:22.580
was off gallivanting and talking to the crew elsewhere, not doing that job.
00:32:27.240
And that right about the time that Timothy came on as director is when they got rid of
00:32:32.260
the iPads that the parents were allowed to look at and watch the children at every moment.
00:32:37.660
Somehow they decided that those—he claims it wasn't his decision.
00:32:45.820
So now, coincidentally, no one can watch the children if the woman's not got eyes on
00:32:52.580
And at the same time, Maureen, there was a complaint made by a hair and makeup person
00:32:59.180
She saw Timothy Busveld do toward the boys in the trailer where she saw him kissing their
00:33:06.100
faces and touching, like, their heads, their hair in a way that made her uncomfortable
00:33:15.580
She knew, and she complained, which is an act of bravery, anonymously, but she did complain
00:33:23.720
He's creepy, and I don't like the way he's interacting with these boys long before the
00:33:31.020
But it's ridiculous that Melissa Gilbert thinks she can just post pictures of butter and milk
00:33:37.100
and have us go buy her lifestyle brand while her husband's accused of genuinely hurting
00:33:44.460
two little boys, one of whom, the therapist says, has constant nightmares, bedwetting, and
00:33:53.900
There's a third accuser that just came forward.
00:33:58.260
He filed on Wednesday, so years, several years ago, his then 16-year-old daughter was auditioning
00:34:05.100
for Timothy Busfield's theater company in San Francisco or something.
00:34:17.320
So the father alleges that Timothy Busfield got this girl alone, kissed her, no doubt under
00:34:33.060
And when the father found out, went to Timothy Busfield, who, according to him, begged the
00:34:37.900
family not to press charges and said he would go get therapy.
00:34:41.000
And this is why these conversations are so important.
00:34:46.180
There is zero rehabilitation for sex criminals.
00:34:54.400
And now Timothy's new expensive lawyer is saying, oh, that's totally unrelated.
00:34:59.000
You know, anything that happened 25 years ago with a 16-year-old bears no, bears not at
00:35:06.920
Obviously, 16-year-old girl, and there's also an allegation involving a 17-year-old girl is
00:35:14.940
They're both taking advantage of a minor in a totally inappropriate way.
00:35:18.220
And the fact that this guy and his daughter let him off the hook from going to the authorities
00:35:23.260
and turning him in does not mean it was a nothing burger.
00:35:26.920
It means he, someone had grace for him 25 years ago, who probably is really regretting
00:35:33.260
that now that they see these allegations brought by these then seven-year-old, now 11-year-old
00:35:42.540
So this was what was really, really just under my skin watching the Globe's red carpet and
00:35:47.200
the likes of Mark Ruffalo, like, hop over to the media, like, Mark, what's the button?
00:35:51.780
Oh, the button's for, you know, you got white supremacists and blah, blah, blah.
00:35:57.960
Why don't you guys who kept your mouth shut throughout the Diddy trial, throughout watching
00:36:02.680
Cassie on a loop, and you kept your mouth fucking shut, why don't you address your backyard?
00:36:10.240
Clean that up, and then get back to the rest of us about how we should live and vote and
00:36:15.180
We got to go through some of this Nickelodeon stuff that we have pulled, and I've been meaning
00:36:23.060
We had Alexa Nicholas on, and she was a child star on Nickelodeon.
00:36:26.920
She starred in Zoe 101, and she talked to us about a number of things that happened on
00:36:31.520
Nickelodeon, but Nickelodeon had multiple child molesters.
00:36:35.460
I mean, actual child molesters on set, molesting children.
00:36:41.620
Like, they molested, one of them molested Drake Bell, who shared in this documentary what
00:36:48.220
happened to him at the hands of this guy, Brian Peck.
00:36:51.500
Viewer warning, this is disturbing, but this is from a documentary that we discussed with
00:36:56.240
Let me just show you Alexa first, discussing the most disturbing episode of Zoe 101 that
00:37:07.940
There are these goo pops, and my character can't get it open.
00:37:19.900
So the prop, a person comes onto set with a syringe.
00:37:28.040
We all, like, stood behind the camera to watch.
00:37:38.400
So first it was Dan roaring, laughing, and then everyone kind of giggling.
00:37:57.140
Once I saw it again as an adult was when that memory came back.
00:38:15.040
This is Ariana Grande got her start on Nickelodeon, which a lot of people don't know.
00:38:18.580
But she became a child star over there, acting and singing.
00:38:24.900
But this is all at the hands of this guy, Dan Snyder, who was running Nickelodeon.
00:38:30.920
He was never accused of molesting anybody, just to be clear.
00:38:33.560
But he was accused of creating extremely vile setups for young girls over and over.
00:38:40.980
And fostering an environment in which actual child predators worked all over the set.
00:38:46.480
So no one's been able to get Dan Snyder on actual charges of molestation.
00:38:50.960
But it's very clear that he created a very inappropriate atmosphere.
00:38:58.960
And you tell me whether these are appropriate scenes for this young girl.
00:39:02.260
Sometimes I wonder if you can get juice from a potato.
00:39:23.980
In another video, Ariana's pouring water on herself in what seems like a very sexual manner.
00:39:29.020
And people started saying, this feels inappropriate for children.
00:39:39.300
What's the name of this film again, you guys, that we highlighted from Nickelodeon?
00:39:45.720
Drake Bell appears in it and shared what happened to him.
00:39:49.520
There was a guy named Brian Peck on set, who I think was the voice coach or the dialect coach.
00:39:54.600
And this guy slowly, according to Drake, drove a wedge between Drake and his father, who was his primary caregiver.
00:40:06.560
He got Drake to sleep over at his house one night.
00:40:09.280
And ultimately, in this movie, Drake shared what happened.
00:40:13.880
I was sleeping on the couch where I would usually sleep.
00:40:36.640
And I froze and was in complete shock and had no idea what to do, no idea how to get out of the situation.
00:41:03.200
You know, I don't know what got into me, and I crossed the line, and this will never happen again.
00:41:24.320
Why don't you think of the worst stuff that someone can do to somebody as a sexual assault?
00:41:34.800
That man who molested him, Brian Peck, was the dialogue coach at Nickelodeon.
00:41:40.960
He was found guilty of lewd acts with a child in 2003.
00:41:43.700
And then, unfortunately, Drake Bell was sentenced much later to two years of probation after pleading guilty to two charges against him relating to a girl he met online who attended one of his concerts in Cleveland in 2017.
00:42:02.840
So clearly, that was an underage girl, because this can turn into a cycle.
00:42:09.400
And that's what was going on the set of America's premier children's programming network for years.
00:42:17.020
And I'm sorry, but it's like your reaction when I said that Timothy Busfield was running a children's theater was exactly the same reaction I had, which is, okay.
00:42:26.520
The same way, like, they become Boy Scout leaders.
00:42:31.740
And they volunteer to help at children's charities.
00:42:39.200
I'm not saying Timothy Busfield is a pedophile.
00:42:41.460
He's got charges against him that he'll fight in court.
00:42:43.780
He says the mother is a money-grubbing revenge artist who's pissed that he was the director of the show when her two seven-year-old twin boys were fired from it.
00:42:51.660
That's his story, and he has a star of the show, a female actress, who told the Warner Brothers investigator that the mother said that to her, that the mother said, I'm going to get revenge on Timothy Busfield.
00:43:08.140
But we're broadening it out now, and you and I both know the way Warner Brothers conducted this investigation and failed to cooperate fully, in my view, with the police looking into Busfield is par for the course in Hollywood.
00:43:20.340
How did Nickelodeon get away with this for all those years, allowing so many children to get hurt?
00:43:26.280
I was going to say the same thing about the Warner Brothers, quote-unquote, investigation and the Warner Brothers lawyer once this was brought to their attention.
00:43:34.500
I don't necessarily believe Nickelodeon's cleaned up their house.
00:43:39.660
There were rumors about Dan Schneider forever, way before this documentary.
00:43:49.240
And it's the same with Bryan Singer, allegedly, the director, who allegedly had lots of sex parties in Hollywood.
00:44:00.600
All these young actors who would cycle through, who wanted entree into Bryan Singer's world, into Bryan Singer's movies.
00:44:13.820
By the way, we just not—well, no, actually, Diddy does have allegations of child abuse against him.
00:44:35.680
There's a new character for me on All That, named Noseboy.
00:44:41.440
Naturally, I'm in a superhero costume, which is just tights and underwear.
00:44:46.060
They gave me a prosthetic nose, like an enlarged nose.
00:44:58.140
You can't help but notice that it looks like penis and testicles on my shoulders.
00:45:08.780
And the joke in that sketch is effectively a shot joke.
00:45:20.960
In the moments to myself, you would just be thinking, like,
00:45:24.440
hey, this is what we got to do to be on the show.
00:45:26.540
I always did my best to be a trooper, never complain,
00:45:29.680
because we knew being close to Dan could mean an extra level of success.
00:45:40.300
It sounded like when he entered that room in the costume—
00:45:44.760
I don't think that was the character's name, but it was very close to it.
00:45:51.540
But yeah, and look, this is why—this is as serious as a heart attack.
00:45:57.680
It's not time to be posting pictures of the butter in your refrigerator.
00:46:00.920
You cannot distract us from the absolutely vile allegations against your husband
00:46:05.000
that you were made aware of on November 3rd, two months ago,
00:46:09.140
by trying to redirect us to the, quote, Modern Prairie brand.
00:46:13.340
And by the way, you and your husband have sullied that brand beyond repair just by getting involved in this.
00:46:19.640
And by the way, also, I don't see a clear denial of the charge from 25 years ago.
00:46:27.300
I hear your lawyer saying it's not related to the current charges.
00:46:32.060
I don't—look, where is the explicit—she's a liar.
00:46:35.920
My team will correct me if he has explicitly denied it.
00:46:40.580
There was a 17-year-old who sued him and threatened him for allegedly molesting her.
00:46:46.440
He sued her law firm saying, you've defamed me.
00:46:49.460
He had to pay them $150,000 and then settled with a 17-year-old.
00:46:54.920
He took out to the movie theater on a date back in, like, 2012, right before he married Melissa Gilbert,
00:47:00.060
who said he—okay, started kissing her in the theater.
00:47:03.480
Many women have been there, but then got so aggressive with her that she considered it a sexual assault,
00:47:12.140
They said, no, there's not enough here to pursue anything because, you know, you're on a date, whatever.
00:47:18.160
Most men do not have at least three females accusing them, 116, 117, 128, of aggressive,
00:47:26.720
inappropriate sexual assault, and then followed up with now this latest allegation.
00:47:36.840
And by the way, I was talking about this with Arthur Idalla the other day.
00:47:41.100
The New York Times, a few years ago, did, like, a real estate piece on Timothy Busfield and Melissa Gilbert's house in upstate New York.
00:47:49.020
And I'm just going to be a bitch about it because I think these people are disgusting.
00:47:58.240
And the New York Times was even snobby about it.
00:47:59.940
They were like, if we're going to be honest, it's more World of Interiors than Architectural Digest.
00:48:03.980
But the salient part for our discussion is in the living room, there was a wall.
00:48:10.180
And the art on the wall was a series of still photographs and Polaroids of multiple people.
00:48:17.000
And there were some younger people on that wall.
00:48:19.440
And I wonder if, like many predators, some of those photos are trophy photos.
00:48:25.660
I wonder if some of those photos – I hope that the feds are looking at every single individual that Timothy Busfield and Melissa Gilbert – I'm not saying she was involved in anything, but, you know, I don't know that she didn't know anything.
00:48:38.060
Also, by the way, in that affidavit, I believe it says that both Timothy and Melissa also took the parents out with the young kids.
00:48:47.960
And that's also a way of trying to develop trust with the parents to say, you could trust us with your kids.
00:48:55.100
Okay, we haven't even touched on Jared of Subway fame.
00:49:02.360
He would go from school to school to talk to kids about diet and eating.
00:49:08.780
And he would do whatever he could to get himself in front of children.
00:49:12.580
And, you know, we interviewed the woman who worked with the FBI for years and getting him on tape.
00:49:21.380
And she started to tape Jared and work with the FBI on taping Jared.
00:49:25.420
And she got his grooming on tape where she was not offering up her children for his pleasure.
00:49:33.340
But she was playing as though she would just because she was trying to get him on tape.
00:49:39.580
And it is the most stomach-turning stuff you will ever hear.
00:49:42.380
But he talks about how, yeah, get him talking about like R-rated things so that they can get used to hearing that.
00:49:52.740
They often will involve other adults, whether they're knowing or not, about like getting this inappropriate talk in front of them or getting the child used to the predator being around them so that they let their guards down.
00:50:08.920
I think we're only scratching the surface right now.
00:50:13.280
And we can't be ashamed to ask these questions.
00:50:16.760
Offering the appropriate defenses and qualifications, we are not condemning Timothy Busfield before there's been a jury trial.
00:50:26.780
There's a lot more to get to, including an explosive piece in The New York Times today on a horrific IVF story.
00:50:35.320
I, like, teared up several times when I listened to this this morning on their podcast, The Daily.
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It's a Maureen Callahan day here at the MK Show.
00:52:52.920
Go and subscribe to it right now on YouTube, all podcast platforms, and at thenerveshow.com,
00:52:58.220
which is really your central receptacle for all of the offerings.
00:53:03.740
Subscribe now on a Friday because then you can take in the nerve, the mini nerve over
00:53:10.340
It's been a very hard-hitting two weeks of news, and the nerve is exactly what we need
00:53:15.740
to have a couple of laughs, make fun of ourselves, and more importantly, others.
00:53:20.400
And Maureen is our leader, so she will take us through all of that.
00:53:27.100
But first, while we're on the more serious topic of abuse and terrible things happening
00:53:31.800
to children, we've got to get to Megan Rapinoe.
00:53:34.320
Megan Rapinoe, who, according to most estimates, is worth several million dollars.
00:53:39.080
I mean, she's probably worth 15, 20 million bucks, probably more, given all the endorsements
00:53:43.460
that she's made and so on, and got to the top of the sports ranks and decided to pull
00:53:48.120
up the ladder behind her because she no longer has to play on these soccer fields against
00:53:53.060
biological boys, but she wants my daughter to have to, and she's made that perfectly clear.
00:53:58.200
So now in the wake of Tuesday's Supreme Court hearing, no ruling yet, but it's clear the
00:54:02.960
high court is going to rule that the 27 states that have bans against boys participating in
00:54:07.460
girls' sports, it's going to uphold those bans.
00:54:11.360
Now in the wake of that, the ACLU, which argued, of course, against the bans, has released
00:54:16.880
an ad starring Megan Rapinoe, Elliot Page, who is Ellen Page, Naomi Watts, who has a child
00:54:27.020
who's declared himself a her, and Chase Strangio, which is the perfect last name for this person
00:54:35.260
who is a, it's a woman pretending to be a man who is also somebody who's argued before
00:54:40.180
the Supreme Court, and lost because they let their ideology drive their argument, and the
00:54:44.760
Supreme Court saw right through that shit. Here's a collection of them in an ad from the ACLU trying
00:54:53.000
When you're young, you believe that you can do anything. And then the world tries to set limits
00:54:57.500
for you. Tell you what's allowed. What's normal. Who you're supposed to be. But on the field,
00:55:02.100
the track, the court, here, you get to be exactly who you are. Because at our core, we're still the
00:55:08.180
kids who just want to play. The go big game changers. The living, breathing fabric of this
00:55:13.820
country. Supporting trans youth isn't just about sports. It's about freedom. On and off the field.
00:55:19.540
It's more than a game. Shame on you, Naomi Watts. Shame on you. And shame on you, Megan Rapinoe.
00:55:26.220
Because of all those people there, you above all know what you're asking to do to little girls.
00:55:32.600
She doesn't care. No, they don't care. That makes me so angry. It is the
00:55:37.920
insistence. They insist upon this messaging that this is all just about being American.
00:55:43.260
They said it's the fabric of the country. It's the fabric of the country that is a woman
00:55:47.900
and our young girls have to have their rights violated, have to be placed in danger of sexual
00:55:54.680
assault. That story you ran like a week or so ago. Equinox.
00:55:58.780
Yes. No, Planet Fitness. The guy jerking off in the women's stall claiming to be a woman.
00:56:03.620
And the staff at Equinox was like, well, we don't really know what to do.
00:56:06.700
Are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah. Because they'll get sued. Yeah. They'll get sued.
00:56:10.100
No. So it was like we had Tish Hyman on yesterday. She got it in Gold's gym. We had that video.
00:56:15.440
That was Planet Fitness. I'm sure it's Equinox too. You can't go anywhere in California without
00:56:19.020
this happening to you because it's the law, thanks to Gavin Newsom, that these men are
00:56:22.960
allowed to parade right into our locker rooms and our gyms and into our daughters. Thanks to people
00:56:28.360
like Megan Rapinoe who have pushed for laws in the other 23 states that allow this. And it's honestly
00:56:34.460
like Naomi Watts. Okay. So she said, she's, I guess I think she's standing up for her quote
00:56:38.840
daughter. Who's really a boy without any thought for maybe I just try to support my child to
00:56:45.920
whom I've allowed this to happen, but without trying to hurt anybody else's child, but she's
00:56:50.260
not a thought for anybody else's child. She's going to roll in her millions and let poor kids
00:56:55.160
deal with boys going into the girls locker rooms and onto their fields and stealing their medals
00:57:00.220
and jerking off in front of them and saying they featured in here this, the athlete that
00:57:06.860
was the plaintiff in one of the Supreme court cases. It was, there was one from Idaho, which
00:57:13.560
involved a college student. And there was one from West Virginia, which involved a high school
00:57:18.040
student, a middle school slash high school student. And the, that West Virginia plaintiff was a young
00:57:24.000
woman, a teenager whose first name is Becky BJP. They were calling her. She's outed herself
00:57:30.480
and himself. It's a boy. Okay. And that, that boy dresses a girl is featured in this ad. And you
00:57:40.140
know what they forgot to mention in this ad, Maureen, they forgot to mention what this so-called boy
00:57:44.980
has been saying, according to the other girls on the team to the girls. But we happen to have it
00:57:52.060
because we know Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the girl. And they have a video
00:57:58.060
that they put out of this young girl, the actual girl named Adelia Cross, who talks about the
00:58:04.060
inappropriate sexual remarks. Again, this boy posing as a girl in this video made to the actual girls on
00:58:11.080
the team, including Adelia. Watch. I started doing track in middle school and a male student joined the
00:58:18.920
girls team and made really inappropriate comments and took me out of my own sport. And she lost out
00:58:25.460
on her equal opportunities to compete. She lost out on opportunities to move up in competition. But at
00:58:30.640
the same time, she was also being subjected to sexual comments from this male athlete. And so that forced
00:58:35.940
her to change in a bathroom stall because she felt so uncomfortable with this male having access to her
00:58:40.780
locker rooms. I didn't really know if I even wanted to say anything at first because I was told that
00:58:45.960
everything was like this is normal and that you're transphobic if you don't think it should be
00:58:50.660
happening. Adelia is telling us about the bullying that that she's enduring from him. And she tells us
00:58:57.920
one of the sexual comments involving his male genitalia that he is saying to the girls. And we were
00:59:06.000
horrified by that. Things that were, you know, really vile, really vulgar. You would hope that your
00:59:13.260
daughter would never have to hear. It would be from walking to the middle school to the track
00:59:18.240
field. He might come up behind and whisper it to her. He would say it in the locker room.
00:59:25.120
And in the girls' bathrooms were said, which is just the worst place to hear it. Like that's
00:59:30.120
supposed to be my safe space and it's just not safe at all. Good for you, Adelia, for coming forward.
00:59:36.680
You're going to win your case. Here, they were too polite to say it, but I'll tell you what they said,
00:59:41.000
what they said, because she did, she did detail it in her Supreme Court brief. The comments range
00:59:46.160
from BPJ telling Adelia that she had a nice butt to remark so vulgar that merely repeating them,
00:59:52.140
they write, is incredibly embarrassing to Adelia. During the end of her eighth grade year, about two
00:59:56.920
to three times per week, BPJ would look at her and say, forgive me, audience, suck my dick. There
01:00:02.660
were usually other girls around who heard this. Adelia heard so-called Becky say the same thing to her
01:00:09.560
other teammates. BPJ also made other more explicit sexual statements that felt threatening to Adelia.
01:00:14.480
At times, BPJ told her quietly, I'm going to stick my D into your P word. And BPJ sometimes added,
01:00:20.900
and in your, yeah, backside as well. That's who Megan Rapinoe and Naomi Watts chose to appear in an ad
01:00:30.680
next to, talking about being kind and standing up for human rights. Maureen.
01:00:36.600
This is why it's so important to completely, you know, a celebrity comes out and says, absolutely,
01:00:43.640
this is 100% the right way to be, think, feel about something. You're, really, you should probably
01:00:49.760
think the exact opposite. You know, this is such bullshit. This girl, and this is, this stuff trickles
01:00:56.360
down. Like, it's not just like, oh, a celebrity said it. Who cares? It's like an idiot. No, this
01:01:00.620
helps this sort of become institutionalized thought. She's at a school where she's told like so many of
01:01:06.920
these girls, you're the problem. You're transphobic. Suck it up. The real victims over here grappling with
01:01:12.240
their identity. The real victims over here saying to a young girl, I'm going to rape you. That's what
01:01:17.800
he's saying. Get out. Get out. And demanding access to her bathroom and her locker room where
01:01:25.200
she changes and gets naked as a young middle school girl. What the F are we doing? What are
01:01:32.040
we doing to these young girls? And the nerve of these Hollywood celebrities, these multi-millionaires
01:01:37.640
to appear out there. Never touch them. It'll never touch them. Screw them. I will never watch another
01:01:41.740
Naomi Watts film ever in my life. Fuck her. Nevermind Megan Rapinoe, who I can't stand anyway. She's,
01:01:47.600
she makes my stomach turn. All right. I want to keep going on a lighter note when we're still in the
01:01:52.140
field of celebrity, you had some issues with, well, that's when I get mildly Sarah, Jessica
01:01:57.880
Parker's, her, her latest, um, iteration of sex in the city. I've been enjoying your take. I never
01:02:06.560
have seen one episode of the, of the reboot, but I totally love listening to you talk about it
01:02:11.420
anyway. And then I know prior to this, I know your love of Carol Burnett. I know you, you revere
01:02:17.580
her. Revere her. And unfortunately, these two things came together at the Golden Globes
01:02:22.360
where SJP got the Carol Burnett award. And here is some of her acceptance speech in Sop 38.
01:02:33.820
My parents who made certain they found the money and the time equally valuable to take me and my seven
01:02:40.240
siblings to the theater, the ballet, the symphony, the movies, museums, and to make sure we never left the
01:02:47.340
house without a book who grew our imaginations and our dreams, who insisted that curiosity was the
01:02:55.620
gateway to a rich world who birthed my love of acting and provided a path to my 50 year, 52 year old
01:03:06.560
career. Birthed. She's so pretentious. She's so precious. She made her name and her money playing a sexually
01:03:17.300
promiscuous woman who was sleeping with half of Manhattan. And as I said on there, Hey, I don't judge
01:03:21.980
like live your life, but like none of these women ever caught so much as an STD. Yeah. Like a mild one.
01:03:26.740
You know, and they sort of, you know, anybody who behaved that way in real life would be
01:03:30.440
swimming with crabs. You're at least getting harpies. Like you're at least like, you know,
01:03:34.520
you're at least maybe getting an HPV screening. And on top of that, then they're, they're glamorizing
01:03:40.240
like materialism and spending beyond your means. And like the idea that like buying $500 shoes you
01:03:46.440
can't afford is just how it is. You know, I've discussed this many times. I met way too many young
01:03:51.020
women who came to New York city from points elsewhere and were like, I'm a Carrie. And I'd be like,
01:03:55.180
you're fucked. Yeah. Right. Exactly. You're never going to make it here. Um, but you know,
01:03:59.360
so she's been making the rounds for her, like that was the inaugural Carol Burnett award.
01:04:04.120
And much as there is online theorizing that Kris Jenner is buying Timothy Chalamet,
01:04:08.780
all these awards, including an Oscar. Yes. Right. I believe Carol Burnett, I'm sorry. I believe
01:04:13.680
SJP purchased that award. That was the inaugural. There's no way. These awards are bought and paid for.
01:04:20.420
We discussed this. We talked about it in the context of the podcast award,
01:04:24.940
which they, we were on the short list for that, but we had to pay all this money if we wanted to
01:04:29.480
actually be considered. And also it was made clear to me, then you have to actually have to go out
01:04:34.100
to LA and meet with all these golden globes, voters and executives and try to razzle dazzle them
01:04:39.940
and then pay more money. And of course I said at the time on my show, go fuck yourselves. Absolutely
01:04:45.360
not. It's my worst nightmare to have to spend time like that with people like that. We pulled our,
01:04:49.660
our show from the consideration. Amy Poehler won it. And at the time I did this on the show,
01:04:54.320
I didn't realize the New York times did this whole expose on the amount that Spotify is believed to
01:05:00.560
have had to spend to get her the award. What was it? It was some huge number. Steve, you looked at it.
01:05:08.300
like over a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. Over a hundred thousand dollars to get her. So you can
01:05:15.780
imagine what's SJP had to pay to get, you know, the first inaugural, uh, I guess, whatever the first
01:05:21.380
Carol Burnett award. And then they go out there and Maureen it's acting, right? Like, Oh, my parents
01:05:28.800
said they birthed me and my love of the arts. And even though we were dirt poor, I went to the
01:05:35.060
ballet and the opera and the theater. No, you didn't. Cause if you were dirt poor, you did not
01:05:40.180
go to any of those events. The symphony. You fucking lie. You're so dirt poor. You have seven
01:05:45.040
kids in your family. Your parents are taking you to the symphony and the opera and like where? Like
01:05:50.120
they were sorry. They grew up in like bumfuck somewhere. No offense, but like we're, we're not
01:05:54.060
living in like midtown Manhattan where, you know, you're getting part of like a, a free, you know,
01:05:59.500
developing adolescence in the arts, whatever. Then my favorite thing about, so she's, she's,
01:06:04.300
she's always breathless. She's always, she's breathless. Yeah. So, so we bought and paid for
01:06:07.960
this award allegedly and we didn't know it was coming. And then we get up there and we're
01:06:11.260
breathless and we just sound like, she's always like doing this tick where she's moving her hands
01:06:16.540
out from her womb. Like, it's like, this is, I'm, I'm being really authentic here because I'm
01:06:21.700
talking to you from my gut. I'm being authentic. Where I birthed my babies except the other two
01:06:25.640
that were surrogates. No, no shame. But like, it's coming from here. It's coming from my solar
01:06:29.620
plexus. And then she's going on the today's show and New York live and all this bullshit. And you
01:06:35.380
know, she's really hawking after doing her victory lap for this bullshit. She is hawking, Megan. I kid
01:06:41.540
you not, a line of prescription. It's a brand of prescription. Oh, eye drops. Eye drops.
01:06:46.620
Eye drops. Called Viz. Okay. Which is a little too close to a slang word.
01:06:51.700
for things we were discussing earlier. It is. Yeah. So wait, now there is, um, what is it? Did
01:06:57.580
you say the, what, what is the number of the site, Steve? The 40 B is the today show. Okay. Let's
01:07:05.140
take a look at her hawking those. You probably don't know this, but Sarah Jessica Parker reads
01:07:11.940
more than anybody. I know more than you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're close. Maybe now we're back
01:07:17.200
because I was judging a literary word. So she said, I was sort of on adrenaline. Um, we read
01:07:23.000
about the math really, I think comes back out to like 172 books, but that's rereading long
01:07:28.800
and short list. Wow. And also reading along with it. But anyway, so as you were reading
01:07:33.260
and recently I learned about, um, these prescription eye drops, went to my eye doctor. He was excited
01:07:39.160
about it and he had been waiting for it and I, I started using them and it changed the
01:07:45.580
course of my day, you know, just in the ways in which those of us who reach for glasses
01:07:49.760
all the time, especially for, I've heard enough. Exactly. So, um, I'm done with Sarah Jessica
01:07:56.980
Parker. I really am like so over her. Uh, but I do want to stay on the today show for one
01:08:01.500
second. You'll be shocked, shocked to learn who, who showed back up on the today show this
01:08:06.120
week. Oh, is it my favorite? Yeah. Who just wants to spend time with her daughters? Oh
01:08:10.460
yeah. She doesn't really want to be in TV anymore. I know. Here she is. Let's roll
01:08:14.020
it. Sat 36. Okay. It is our first official day together. And right now Chanel and I have
01:08:22.320
no idea what's about to happen. They said, just read the prompter. So here we go. This
01:08:26.660
is literally in real time. Our producers wanted to celebrate the premiere of the new fourth hour
01:08:41.380
There is Hoda. Kathy Lee. It's really sweet. It's really sweet.
01:08:47.020
It's Hoda and Kathy Lee, for those of you listening. What a shock. Oh my God.
01:09:02.920
Oh my God. Can you believe I ever thought I could have a career there?
01:09:09.720
You know, it's, I think you had to go through that crucible to get to,
01:09:13.360
to this. But this is the cheesiest. It's, it's the most brain dead. So I have so, so like I,
01:09:18.740
you know, I watch this stuff with like morbid fascination. I really do. Cause I wonder what
01:09:22.360
the actual conversations in the control room and the, and the C-suites are about the talent
01:09:27.220
down there. Chanel, the new, the new diversity hire. Let's just be honest. That's what this
01:09:32.800
is. She's a dud. She's a dud. She has a charisma vacuum. We're going in on the, we went on
01:09:39.860
in on a thing on the nerve on Friday today. But, um, so then Hoda, who is not going to let anybody
01:09:45.160
else have that seat. She will not. And it's such an F you. And you know, like the, I think the exact,
01:09:50.560
I think that there's resentment about having to put this woman in that chair, Chanel. I really do
01:09:55.540
because I think they all fucking hate Hoda too, but they're letting Hoda come back on Chanel's first
01:10:00.520
day in that chair. It's mine. Put her stink bomb there. Be like, it's my, don't forget me. I'm
01:10:05.420
coming back. She'll never be me. You'll never, you'll never last. You'll never last. It's amazing.
01:10:10.620
They're fighting over this chair next to Jenna Bush Hager. Oh my God. Also an idiot. Honestly,
01:10:15.360
the dumbest dirt. Like let's face it. Never has anything clever to say. I know I worked across
01:10:19.600
from her for a year. There was never anything clever whatsoever. I don't know. She claims to be
01:10:23.500
reading all these books. They must be very surface level books because she's learning very little.
01:10:27.220
They're awful. You go into the bookstore and you see like a book with, it's got the read with
01:10:30.980
Jenna stamp. Like, you know, to just bypass it. That's how I feel. I just steer clear. If I see
01:10:35.740
that, if I see the Reese Witherspoon, if I see Oprah, oh hell no on the Oprah. Okay. And speaking of
01:10:40.620
Oprah, now we've got to talk about her. This is incredible. Okay. Oprah Winfrey has decided,
01:10:46.960
hold on. I need my glasses because I really do have to read this. You should get Viz, Megan.
01:10:50.480
Yeah, I need Viz. I need the Viz. Yeah. Yo, Doug. Okay. So here's the story.
01:10:57.220
Oprah is on a book tour again. Oprah is opening up, writes USA Today or people. We got it from both
01:11:05.160
about her weight loss journey, Maureen. You don't say. She never talks about it.
01:11:10.800
Never. It's like pulling teeth. She's opening up about her weight loss journey in a new book,
01:11:15.860
sharing how she overcame the shame of not being able to manage my weight. It's called
01:11:21.180
Enough, Your Health, Your Weight, and What It's Like to Be Free. Enough is a collaboration between
01:11:26.840
Winfrey and Dr. Anya M. Jostiboff, an endocrinologist and professor at Yale, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:11:33.660
Okay. In Enough, Winfrey recalls, quote, one of the most humiliating moments of her life
01:11:38.160
when Joan Rivers asked her how she gained weight on The Tonight Show in 1985. From there,
01:11:45.600
Winfrey became a running joke. Winfrey has previously credited GLP-1s for more than just weight loss.
01:11:53.080
She said it's helped her strengthen her relationship with her longtime partner,
01:11:56.040
Stedman. Where's Stedman? Where is Stedman, Maureen? Where is Stedman? We did a whole episode
01:12:00.940
on this on the nerve. We're still investigating. Yeah. We don't know. We've got the little dog
01:12:05.640
looking for him. I have updates. Oh, okay. So, but allegedly, allegedly Oprah has strengthened
01:12:11.720
her relationship with the, we believe, missing Stedman. Winfrey, let's see. It's given her more energy
01:12:18.760
and it's helped her consume less alcohol. Now, here's this. This is the best part. This is why
01:12:23.560
I, this is why we're doing this segment. She says, you all know to People Magazine in December,
01:12:29.720
I've been on this journey for most of my life. My highest weight was 237 pounds, which I have to say,
01:12:35.600
I call bullshit in. I think it was higher. I don't know if there is another public person
01:12:40.080
whose weight struggle has been exploited as much as mine over the years.
01:12:47.440
Oh, please. Exploited? It's her narrative. It's her favorite narrative. It's her favorite
01:12:52.320
moneymaker. Who is she kidding? Like, oh, mean Joan Rivers set her up for this and then the terrible
01:12:58.940
industry just kept exploiting it. I'm just going to like quickly toss to a soundbite of the exploitation
01:13:04.240
that she seems to have forgotten about. This is what 67 pounds of fat looks like.
01:13:12.660
I can't. Yeah, we're looking at a skinny Oprah. Now, when you talk about Jimmy, is this gross or what?
01:13:19.440
It is amazing to me that I can't lift it, but I used to carry it around every day.
01:13:24.200
Who were the people who exploited her, Maureen? You know, that was before a GLP one existed.
01:13:29.820
Yeah, she did it. She did it somehow, you know. Oh, but now the whole theory of this book,
01:13:34.240
is obesity is a disease that happens to you. And all those efforts were for not,
01:13:41.000
not because she doesn't have willpower, but because she has a disease that made her eat.
01:13:46.180
By the way, this book is bullshit because she didn't, she didn't collaborate on it. I got the
01:13:50.260
book. She wrote a forward that's like three and a half pages long. And the doc who like is kind of
01:13:55.960
in her shadow at all of these like, you know, media appearances, she wrote the actual book.
01:14:03.080
Graphics. So Oprah, again, is shilling a bunch of bullshit. And you can't also posit yourself as
01:14:09.500
like, and as Gail will frequently remind us, as America's foremost influencer and like the person
01:14:15.260
who moves the needle culturally and be like, Joan Rivers victimized me. You know, if you can't take
01:14:20.860
Joan Rivers, you have no business being in the spotlight.
01:14:23.060
Joan Rivers victimized all of us. It was a badge of honor to be made fun of by her.
01:14:32.800
I'll never forget this one episode. She was on Fox and Friends and I was hosting America's
01:14:36.180
Newsroom with Hemmer and they said, you know, we got to go, Joan. She was the last said we
01:14:39.500
had a Fox and Friends. So it was like a moment before I came on it. They're like, we got to go.
01:14:42.680
And we're tossing to now to Bill Hemmer and Megyn Kelly. And she was like, Megyn Kelly,
01:14:46.340
that bitch. I was like, I've arrived. I've arrived. It was like, it was a compliment.
01:14:51.960
It's a total compliment. I don't know if I told you this, but I, when I was back at the
01:14:55.980
New York Post, I did a phone interview with Don Rickles once and I, he got on the phone.
01:14:59.900
I said, hi, this is Maureen Callahan at the Post. He goes, Maureen Callahan. He's like,
01:15:03.960
where's your father right now? Falling off a bar stool somewhere. I died. I died.
01:15:09.700
I mean, we're talking about the Irish now. So I believe you mean to say talking about my
01:15:13.520
dad falling off the bar stool somewhere. We have to go slip into the dialect, just like
01:15:19.720
A. Martinez. Exactly. You know that guy on a news channel four? This makes me think of that.
01:15:25.560
His name is Gabby Acevedo. Okay. He's been doing news for news for New York city for like 25 years.
01:15:32.800
His accent is so thick. You're like, dude, come on. It's a put on. Right. Like you've like,
01:15:37.260
you know how Anna Wintour has this mix of like a British and an American accent. You live here long
01:15:41.520
enough. Oh, come on. It gets diluted, you know, but it's always like very, very thick. We're always
01:15:45.740
very, you know, you're like, okay. It's an affectation. It's affectation. Even last night
01:15:49.340
we were tracking AM update and I said to my producer, Julia, who I love, I'm like, Julia,
01:15:55.520
because we're naming these illegals who attacked the ICE officer with a shovel. And she's got like
01:16:00.900
four or five names for each one of these guys. They're from Venezuela. You know, they take the
01:16:06.000
mother's last name. They take the father's last name. Then they have four middle names. I'm like,
01:16:09.540
they get two. Choose your best two. I don't really give a shit which ones they are,
01:16:14.800
but we are certainly not bending over backwards for the illegals to get their middle name,
01:16:18.580
their second middle name, their grandpa's name. Fucking two. That's what you get. You're in
01:16:23.060
America now. Okay. So that's Oprah. And here she is. There's one more of her. What is it? 35.
01:16:28.860
This is her on the view on Wednesday. So this is what I wanted everybody to know
01:16:34.120
that all these years I thought I was overeating. I was standing there with all the food noise,
01:16:40.060
what I ate, what I should eat. How many calories was that? How long is it going to take? I thought
01:16:43.780
that that was because of me and my fault. Now I understand that if you carry the obesity gene,
01:16:50.920
if that is what you have, that is what makes you overeat. You don't overeat and become obese.
01:16:57.840
Obesity causes you to overeat. Obesity causes you to have all of that food noise. And what the GLP-1s
01:17:05.560
have done for me, and I know a number of other people, is to quiet that noise.
01:17:10.800
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me just, and then she adds the following. Okay. She writes this. Okay. Oh,
01:17:17.520
she writes the medication helped her quiet the food noise, that relentless voice in your head, urging,
01:17:23.660
urging, no, demanding that you eat another cookie or chip, even after you finished the whole bag
01:17:30.520
or constantly distracted by trying not to eat. This is what people without obesity felt like all their
01:17:38.100
lives. She writes, that's a fucking lie. That's a lie. I have not been obese my whole life,
01:17:45.860
though. I was a little heftier when I was younger, for sure. I constantly think about food too. It's
01:17:51.960
called being human. It's a reward. We all love it. You eat out of boredom. I mean, millions of
01:17:57.680
Americans who have never been obese have that food conversation in their head, but they manage
01:18:03.280
to say no. Some have greater self-discipline. Some are more vain. Some just find a way to channel
01:18:10.340
their energy into something else. But I remember talking to Tanya Zuckerbrot, who started the F
01:18:14.660
Factor Diet, which I used to follow for years. And I love Tanya Zuckerbrot. And she's got a rocket body.
01:18:19.720
And she said that her number one irritant was people in her family or friends who would be like,
01:18:25.100
you're so lucky. And she was like, luck has nothing to do with it. You don't think I want
01:18:31.240
that dessert? You don't think I want those French fries? I say, no, I beat myself up to walk away from
01:18:37.840
the table and it's not easy. And look, I do like, I have nothing against the GLP ones, but I do think
01:18:45.040
this like, it's a disease. And I had no personal responsibility in my morbidly obese body is a cop-out.
01:18:52.820
Well, I also think she's just flattening the conversation in a way that's highly
01:18:56.900
irresponsible. I actually have a lot of questions about GLP ones. And I hear from people all the
01:19:02.040
time who are like, my side effects were so severe. I wound up in the hospital. I thought I was going
01:19:07.640
to lose an organ. Kelly Means says he thinks they're going to be recalled.
01:19:10.320
I would not be surprised at all. And I think she's highly irresponsible pushing the shit. One
01:19:14.900
question nobody's asking her is, hey, Oprah, you know, you had to sell all of that steak you had
01:19:20.000
in Weight Watchers when you were representing them on the points system. What's your stake now in GLP
01:19:26.020
ones? You're such an evangelist for it. You're sitting here going, I got an email from a registered
01:19:31.600
nurse that I read on The Nerve the other day in which she said, we saw the shift. We never used to
01:19:38.200
see people coming in at 400 pounds, 500 pounds, 600 pounds. And it started in like the 90s, 2000s.
01:19:44.960
And she said, you wouldn't believe the way the patient rooms were left after these people left.
01:19:49.500
Two liter, empty two liter bottles of Coke. Oh my God. Just bags of like junk food. Like you're
01:19:55.080
telling me like it's morbid, morbid obesity somehow alights upon you. It is, her narrative is always
01:20:03.880
shifting with whatever circumstances benefits her. I know she saw yet another way to get herself
01:20:11.200
into the news and get her face back on camera, which is the only thing that makes her happy.
01:20:16.320
100%. And she used it. All right. We've got to get to Brian Kohlberger and this IVF story. Why don't
01:20:22.200
we take our quick break now? We'll get it out of the way. Love our breaks and our advertisers. I really
01:20:26.080
do love them. Can I tell you, I love them for a number of reasons. They've been very loyal, but whenever
01:20:30.100
someone tries to stir up shit in my life, they try to pressure my advertisers to like abandon me.
01:20:35.560
And no one ever has. I freaking love my advertisers. It takes a spiny, steely spine to, to back more
01:20:44.840
controversial news figures and they do it. So please do patronize these people because they're
01:20:50.620
the reason we're able to bring this show to you for free. Um, so God bless them. Grand Canyon
01:20:55.500
University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona believes we are endowed
01:21:00.620
by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
01:21:05.920
GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American dream starts with purpose by honoring your
01:21:11.180
career calling. You can impact your family, friends, and your community change the world for good by
01:21:16.280
putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's master's or doctoral degree,
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GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your
01:21:27.780
unique academic, personal, and professional goals. With over 340 academic programs as of September,
01:21:33.680
2024, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to
01:21:39.920
serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University, private,
01:21:53.720
Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan is my guest.
01:21:57.780
Today, okay, we have like so much goodness to get to. We just discussed during the break how we're
01:22:01.820
going to have to go over today because there's too many, too many good stories. We haven't done
01:22:05.980
culture in forever. We've been talking about Minnesota and Venezuela and Iran. Okay, here we are
01:22:11.860
back where we belong. Crazy update in the Brian Kohlberger case. So the families of the victims have filed a
01:22:22.160
lawsuit against Washington State. And my sincere apologies to all of the alums from the University
01:22:30.560
of Washington, which I keep saying is the relevant university, and it's not. And the grads of University
01:22:37.500
of Washington are like, for the love of God, would you say where he actually was a teaching assistant,
01:22:42.680
which was Washington State? You are right. And I was wrong. And that was loose language,
01:22:47.080
which I now humbly correct and apologize for. So they have filed a lawsuit against the university
01:22:55.020
claiming that the university knew Brian Kohlberger was a predator, a dangerous person to have on campus,
01:23:04.460
and nevertheless, not only had him as a PhD student, but went so far as to employ him as a TA
01:23:12.560
in this PhD program of criminology. And they go through the litany of complaints that were made
01:23:22.960
about Brian Kohlberger by, I mean, more than a dozen female students and fellow teachers and professors
01:23:32.180
within his department. Brian Enten went through the whole complaint of News Nation. He does a great
01:23:38.020
job. And he outlined it in great detail. Excuse me. Here's some of that. Listen to Brian.
01:23:44.600
In August 2022, early in the semester, a fellow graduate student began leaving her office door
01:23:49.240
open because she believed this guy was going to do something inappropriate with a student and said
01:23:54.120
that Kohlberger struck her as a stalker or sexual assaulter type. Another fellow graduate student
01:24:01.060
described him as a possible future rapist. He was noted to be obsessed with studying sexually
01:24:06.080
motivated burglars and serial killers. One female graduate student reported that Kohlberger
01:24:11.200
would trap her in her office and try to talk to her about the Ted Bundy murders. Multiple female
01:24:17.100
students and staff members were so uncomfortable with Kohlberger's behavior that security escorts
01:24:22.540
were arranged for them after 5 p.m. One sophomore student reported that Kohlberger had followed her
01:24:28.860
and told her bosses at WSU about the incident. In response, they told her she should not be alone
01:24:33.880
with Kohlberger, suggested that campus security should escort her out and commented that she was not the
01:24:39.420
first to report such problems. During one of several faculty meetings where Kohlberger was discussed
01:24:45.700
extensively, one faculty member remarked, mark my words, I work with predators. If we give him a PhD,
01:24:52.980
that's the guy that in many years when he's a professor, we will hear is harassing, stalking,
01:24:58.380
and sexually abusing his students. Wow. Okay. So they now are accusing Washington State of negligence
01:25:04.960
and of violating Title IX, which is an interesting way in. They argued that the university
01:25:11.220
located just across Idaho's border with Washington State failed to take meaningful action after
01:25:17.260
receiving complaints about Kohlberger, at the time a criminology graduate student. They called the murders
01:25:22.020
a foreseeable and in fact predictable tragedy. The lawsuit claims the university received 13 formal
01:25:31.060
complaints about Kohlberger's inappropriate, predatory, and menacing behavior. Just a couple of
01:25:37.180
more things. Students, okay, they said he, according to the lawsuit, he repeatedly blocked exits, invaded
01:25:43.600
women's personal space, followed multiple women to their vehicles to the point that they requested
01:25:47.720
personal campus security escorts. You heard some of that. Students fled into bathrooms to
01:25:51.920
hide from him. One WSU employee even advised other employees to email them with the subject line
01:25:57.580
911 if they were in a situation with Kohlberger where they felt threatened by him. WSU employees
01:26:03.380
would often stay in the room where Kohlberger was meeting with students in fear of leaving them
01:26:10.300
alone together. These types of predatory occurrences happened from the moment he arrived in Washington
01:26:16.160
State. Maureen, this is very dark and there is a real question here. At first I was like, oh, I don't,
01:26:22.480
how can you blame the university? And the more I read, the more I was like, oh my God, the university
01:26:27.020
Mm-hmm. Yeah, several things. I think also Brian Enten had talked about even local businesses had a sort
01:26:35.500
of alert system amongst each other about this guy. One, I think it was a local bar that had an alert
01:26:40.660
because he would come in and he would speak in very sexist, misogynistic ways to the women.
01:26:45.180
That. You've got at least two reports, one of like breaking and entering. It's believed he stole
01:26:51.600
a young woman's underwear and perfume. Yep. Okay. And then another woman called her boyfriend and was
01:26:58.540
like, there's a white like car outside. He's been stalking, this guy's been stalking. Staring in her
01:27:03.420
windows. Staring in her windows. So, you know, it sort of ties in a little bit to that clip you were
01:27:10.580
playing earlier, the Megan Rapinoe, Naomi Watts clip, where why this guy wasn't removed instead
01:27:19.020
of having 13 young women come and say, he's stalking me. He's following me out to my car.
01:27:25.500
He broke into my apartment. This guy's got like, you know, a no fly. He's on the no fly list at the
01:27:31.340
local bar. He looks crazy. It's like Nick Reiner. It's in the eyes. He looks it instead of removing him
01:27:39.860
because they were worried about a lawsuit. Well, now you got a fucking lawsuit. Yeah. Yeah. We're
01:27:44.780
going to, we're going to make sure that we just keep him, you know, we, we don't offend him and
01:27:49.420
girls, you know what? Call us when you want to leave for the day and wait around till somebody can
01:27:54.480
walk you to your car. Are you kidding me? It was to the point where when the four students at the
01:28:00.120
University of Idaho right across the way were killed, more than one of these women said, according
01:28:06.300
to the lawsuit, it was him. Like he was a suspect on the minds of some of these women who knew he was
01:28:12.920
a creep, who felt their exit had been blocked by him. One woman, he stared down in his class to the
01:28:18.960
point where she felt so uncomfortable. She went and complained. Like she, it was described as like an
01:28:24.000
act of dominance over her. I mean, quite clearly misogynist doesn't cover it, but he had a deep
01:28:31.380
hatred of women to the point where, I mean, Ethan Chapin was killed too, but he was a, he was just
01:28:36.220
there with his girlfriend. He was out to kill women that night in that house. And they knew it.
01:28:41.240
These women were saying he will be the sexual predator. We're writing about years from now.
01:28:46.620
And they're saying it to the university. They're saying you're teaching him how to do this. Yes.
01:28:54.100
This is the criminology, how the criminology department hasn't had his doors closed permanently
01:28:59.220
over there is beyond me. It is an obscenity that it exists still. He came in the morning after the
01:29:05.240
murders or the day, the school day after the murders, he had a slash on his face. His hands
01:29:09.600
were cut up. Oh, who do you think could have done this? Are you kidding me? Yes. And these women are
01:29:13.900
sitting there like, oh my God, look at him. His face is slashed. He's got cuts on his hands. And now,
01:29:18.500
by the way, that new detail, which we didn't know beforehand, does shed some light on the creepy
01:29:23.780
selfies he was doing with the thumbs up in the mirror. Remember in the bathroom,
01:29:28.600
he's all in white. He looks like an albino and he's like taking his photographs with his,
01:29:32.620
with his thumbs up. He's trying to get his hand on, on camera to make it look like it's not
01:29:37.520
scratched up at all, but you can't see the other hand and possibly he put makeup on it. But now it
01:29:44.100
makes more sense. He was trying to create some sort of weird alibi, like I'm fine. What do you mean?
01:29:48.660
There wasn't a scratch on me and who knows what he had done to make himself look like he was fine.
01:29:53.380
Um, Brian interviewed a camp, not at, not at, uh, these universities, but a campus security
01:30:01.860
expert because every universe, most universities have experts who come on and they actually run
01:30:08.260
down threat profiles of anybody on campus about whom they get a complaint. And he was talking about
01:30:13.940
how his university, which went unnamed when I think he said it was a small university in California
01:30:17.620
had a ratio of about one of these campus officers who would assess threats and prediction on threat
01:30:24.500
levels for every 10 students. So one per 10 students, which sounds manageable to me and how
01:30:29.820
the ratio at Washington state was grossly out of whack with that. It was like one per, you know,
01:30:35.880
several hundred. And he was like, there's no way they could keep up with, with things under those
01:30:41.560
levels. And then went on to offer a bunch of insights. Here's one of them.
01:30:45.860
We've got two reports of a stalker and they're both this guy. And this guy is, is studying and
01:30:54.560
getting a graduate degree, basically getting a graduate degree in sexual assault. In the complaint,
01:31:00.320
I found that the university's threat assessment team uses a, uh, uh, protocol called the waiver 21,
01:31:07.600
which is what we use. And it is a series of, um, a series of potential behaviors that you rate the
01:31:17.160
person on. Like, uh, is he professed violence? Is it, uh, mild, none, uh, medium, or is it prominent?
01:31:26.600
And you take all these things, you give them number values and you finish up with a score. I went through
01:31:33.020
the waiver 21, just on what I saw in the complaint. And this guy was way up there in threat, uh,
01:31:39.880
potential. Hmm. Yeah, that's disturbing. Um, I did this just off a complaint. These guys had this
01:31:46.840
information years ago. I'm looking at the waiver that they would have used. He had a violent fantasies,
01:31:53.380
preoccupation with it, um, stalking, menacing behavior, job problems, um, lack of conscience,
01:32:01.680
anger problems, substance abuse, isolation, history of violence, criminality, or, or conflict. I mean,
01:32:09.360
you got it. You've got to realize this person is the ticking time bomb.
01:32:15.120
And, and not only did they have him as a student, but again, they chose to employ him and in a way
01:32:21.740
forcefully subject groups of young women to him and, and underneath him, like in a, in a, yes,
01:32:27.980
he was in an authority position over them. Yes. I mean, they, they need to settle this case.
01:32:34.680
I mean, I, I would, Oh God, I would really love to know the institutional failures here.
01:32:40.540
And I really would love to know, you know, I think you and I talked about this, but
01:32:43.800
what makes this so, it, it makes me furious because women are, these things are still not taken
01:32:51.880
with the seriousness with which they should be taken. I don't understand what more these girls and
01:32:57.940
women could have done. I don't know where you go when the university's responses, we'll just get
01:33:02.520
a male escort for you. Right. Instead of saying, we're going to get rid of this guy and we're going
01:33:06.440
to have him on the no fly list and security will be all over this campus, making sure he has no
01:33:10.940
access anywhere. Are you, I mean, I know, right. That's not okay. It's not good enough. And you had
01:33:15.680
the one, um, I think it was a professor teaching in the criminology department who was creeped out by
01:33:20.480
him. It doesn't sound like he was her TA, but she made sure she, according to the complaint,
01:33:25.160
it's an allegation. All these are allegations. The university has yet to respond. We should
01:33:28.480
keep an open mind for their defense. Um, but this professor, according to the complaint,
01:33:32.740
would keep her door open because she was worried that when young women had to go visit Brian
01:33:38.400
Kohlberger in his TA office, something might happen to them. And she wanted to be able to like
01:33:43.900
save them. So she kept her door. I'm like, first of all, terrible, terrible position to put this
01:33:48.920
professor in this female professor. But how about these young girls? Remember in college,
01:33:53.720
like you had to see a TA fair amount, getting direct access to the professor was a lot harder.
01:33:58.180
Yes. And so they, they were forced to deal with this creep while at this university. And they're
01:34:03.840
all talking to themselves about how they're afraid of him. And the university, according to the
01:34:08.820
complaint, knew it. So I don't know, Maureen. And, and like, how did they wind up catching Brian
01:34:15.240
Kohlberger? Well, it was because of the touch DNA, you know, that he left, he touched that knife
01:34:21.220
sheath. He left that knife sheath in the murder house and they then gave it to the FBI. They found
01:34:27.620
the touch DNA. They uploaded the results to private databases ultimately and found a match to his dad.
01:34:33.900
And that's how they found Brian Kohlberger. Then they started looking through old files or complaints
01:34:39.260
that they had received. And they put together that the university, sorry, that the, that Washington
01:34:44.500
State University, a campus police had said, there is somebody with a Hyundai between the relevant ears
01:34:50.360
that matches the description of bushy eyebrows. Anyway, so they find Brian Kohlberger. Imagine
01:34:56.780
if the university had said, why don't we look to see what predators we've, we have on our campus.
01:35:03.560
Let's look to see if there's anybody here who's been accused of being a serial misogynist.
01:35:08.180
They should, they would have had a file from the sound of it, you know, as big as the Webster's
01:35:11.960
Dictionary. They could have caught him a lot sooner. I mean, the family's not exactly alleging
01:35:16.660
they would have caught him sooner. They're alleging he wouldn't have been on campus to
01:35:19.580
commit these crimes if the university had done its duty to protect the community by not inviting
01:35:25.900
and then fostering the continuing presence of a female predator.
01:35:30.760
This is why I kind of don't want the suit to be settled because I want as much discovery as
01:35:34.800
possible because you can't tell me that there weren't people in positions to know at that
01:35:40.340
university who upon hearing of that crime thought, holy fucking shit, it's Brian Kohlberger and we
01:35:47.800
ignored every single glaring, waving, enormous red flag because we were worried that he would sue
01:35:56.980
us. Yeah. And now four coeds are dead and the blood is also on our hands. And I hope that family
01:36:03.260
get those families get everything they ask for. He was saying the security expert was saying,
01:36:07.660
because there is an allegation in the complaint that that is the reason they didn't do anything
01:36:10.560
about it. They were worried about getting sued, that there was actually a conversation about that,
01:36:14.200
that they were worried about getting sued. And yeah, it would have had to be sued by him,
01:36:17.780
like for getting kicked off, for being accused of being a predator. I've, we've seen this at other
01:36:23.460
schools. Sometimes you just got to take the risk of getting sued. You know, that the Washington State
01:36:30.780
University has plenty of money. Yeah, they have plenty of money. And this is not going to be a
01:36:35.100
multimillion dollar lawsuit that this guy gets. It's like, all right, you're going to have to pay
01:36:38.120
probably at most a couple hundred thousand dollars. How is that not worth it? And maybe
01:36:42.940
you do, but you've got 13 students and no shortage of teachers and administrators at your university
01:36:50.120
and, and men who are forced to escort young girls to their cars because he's stalking them on their way
01:36:55.580
out. And teacher, like half the courage, what kind of criminology department are you running?
01:36:59.800
What kind of institution of higher learning is this?
01:37:02.240
This, this, okay. So another point on this, I talked about two weeks ago, I don't know,
01:37:07.260
since new year, that interview that Brian Kohlberger's sister gave to the New York Times.
01:37:12.720
And you know, she's all like, oh, we didn't know. We just, in retrospect, we thought he was kind of
01:37:17.380
autistic, but that's it. The New York Times did not ask, it appears because they certainly did not
01:37:23.020
report on any Q and a or attempt to get information on the allegations that this sister, Melissa, who gave
01:37:28.380
the interview, knew that she suspected Brian of the murders and had raised it with her dad
01:37:33.680
prior to him getting caught. That's completely glossed over, not a mention of it in the New York
01:37:37.860
Times. But so all these women, pretty much anybody who came in contact with Brian Kohlberger on this
01:37:44.140
campus thought he was a perverted creep sex pest, but the sister had no idea. The sister was completely
01:37:52.720
clueless that he was just this sweet brother who had reformed his, you know, heroin addiction ways
01:37:58.160
and was flabbergasted, just shocked, Maureen, shocked. That's what the New York Times would have
01:38:03.940
I don't believe a word of it. You know, it's, as we're learning, it's tangential, but as we're
01:38:08.440
learning more about that, the Nick Reiner case in the house, like that, that was a very sick house.
01:38:13.660
That Reiner house was a very sick house. Now we're learning he was placed in a conservatorship
01:38:18.040
back in like 2020, you know, that he had had violent outbursts that he had been threatening
01:38:23.780
before. You know, I don't buy for a second that the sister had no idea that her brother,
01:38:30.240
I would imagine that that was, that was one of those moments when a sibling leaves the nest where
01:38:36.660
like a sigh of exhale of relief was like, thank God he's gone. And I didn't know until listening to
01:38:42.300
your show that, um, he had called the mother, like demanding to speak to the mother in hours
01:38:49.640
and, and was talking to her allegedly from outside the crime scene, which he went three hours,
01:38:55.640
starting two hours after the crimes were committed from two hours after the crimes were committed.
01:39:00.840
He spent three of the next five hours on the phone with his mother.
01:39:03.960
You can't tell me she didn't know. She knew that's our allegedly reportedly.
01:39:08.680
Allegedly. She knew she knew. Yeah, I agree. And now the,
01:39:11.880
but the New York times wants to do a whitewashing for this family. I'm not saying it's their fault.
01:39:16.140
I'm just saying they know more than they're letting on. And the New York times should not
01:39:18.800
have led the sister get away with this. The New York times should have spiked that piece.
01:39:22.820
It was journalistic malpractice. Who's in the business of rehabilitating the
01:39:26.560
Kohlberger family. Aren't we all in the business of actually getting to the bottom of
01:39:29.820
what the fuck happened in the Kohlberger family? Well, you know, over at the New York times,
01:39:33.580
everybody's a victim. Yeah. Except like the ones you cannot at all defend the likes of Brian
01:39:38.740
Kohlberger. I mean, I'm sure they probably tried eight ways to Sunday to,
01:39:41.880
contextualize this within the world of autism and drug addiction. And you know,
01:39:46.860
they let her get away with that. Now in retrospect, we think he was autistic. What?
01:39:50.580
How dare you? And she wants to work in mental health.
01:39:53.300
Oh yeah. Okay. Sure. Um, if you ever walk in and see a therapist with blue hair,
01:39:59.260
and it's a female who's like in the mid twenties or pushing 30, you should ask whether her name has
01:40:04.300
always been whatever it is and say, was there ever a connection to the Poconos and the last name
01:40:08.800
Kohlberger? Um, all right, now we have a couple of more stories that we want to get to, including
01:40:12.600
this incredible IVF story that we've got to talk about. And then we will, we will take the time to
01:40:16.480
talk about this explosive allegation against Kirsten Sinema that has now just broken. Stand by for that.
01:40:23.120
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Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel
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on SiriusXM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered
01:42:43.600
with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people
01:42:48.080
like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics,
01:42:53.980
and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megan Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111, and on the
01:43:02.120
My guest today is Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan. Check it out. Go to
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wherever you get your podcasts and just type in The Nerve. It'll come up. Check her out on YouTube.
01:43:17.080
And thanks to all of you for joining us for this discussion. All right. I want to kick it off here
01:43:21.460
with Kirsten Sinema. One time Democrat, then turned independent. Then she left the Senate because of
01:43:28.820
bullying altogether. I was actually reliably informed by a very prominent U.S. Senator that
01:43:34.240
the Democrats, once she went independent, would make her sit alone. Like there's a little area in
01:43:42.220
Yes. No one would sit by her. It's ridiculous. But she's in the news for not such great behavior,
01:43:51.000
alleged behavior. She's being sued by the ex-wife of Sinema's bodyguard.
01:43:57.840
And this woman is accusing her of having an affair and basically stealing this woman's husband,
01:44:05.400
who was Sinema's bodyguard. Former independent Democrat senator, they're saying, let's say,
01:44:11.180
okay, accused of having a relationship with her bodyguard when she was in office.
01:44:14.680
The lawsuit, followed by Heather Amel, A-M-M-E-L, claims Sinema engaged in an intentional and malicious
01:44:21.420
interference in Amel's marriage to Matthew Amel, an Armory veteran who began working on Sinema's
01:44:27.820
security detail in 2022. By January, 2024, Heather Amel found that her husband was receiving signal
01:44:35.540
messages from Sinema that were of a romantic and lascivious nature. She originally filed suit in
01:44:42.320
North Carolina state court. Sinema removed it into federal court in North Carolina because North
01:44:46.520
Carolina has a cause of action. Not every state does called alienation of affection, where you can
01:44:53.200
potentially get punitive damages. It gives a spouse legal grounds to sue a third party for interference
01:45:00.260
in a marriage. Here are the elements of the claim. The elements are that the plaintiff and their spouse
01:45:11.560
were happily married and that a genuine love and affection existed between them. Two, that the love and
01:45:18.660
affection so existing was alienated and destroyed. And three, that the wrongful and malicious acts of
01:45:25.800
the defendant produced and brought about the loss and alienation of such love and affection. Now,
01:45:30.860
this actually seems tough to me because you got to prove that the affair partner ruined a previously
01:45:36.380
loving, happy marriage. And typically, if somebody is straying from their marriage, it's really not that
01:45:44.480
happy a marriage. Exactly. So we'll see. But it's at least a claim that you could bring. And they are
01:45:49.960
saying, oh, by the way, they point out that this is from Law 360. There was a case in North Carolina
01:45:56.720
involving someone named Brene Canard. And a state court jury ordered Canard, a TikTok star, to pay 1.75
01:46:05.780
million to Akira Montague, who said Canard broke up her marriage. In 2011, Betty Devin was ordered to pay
01:46:13.020
$30 million to Carol per year, the ex-wife of a man who at the time owned a trucking company. So
01:46:19.620
they're not kidding around in North Carolina. Like, if you get in front of one of these North
01:46:24.200
Carolina juries, which again, that's why Kyrsten Sinema removed it to federal court, it doesn't tend
01:46:28.580
to go well. Okay. So it's kind of scary. Okay. Anyway, the wife is seeking damages for her alleged lengthy
01:46:35.940
sexual conversations with her husband and coordination of trysts around the globe, all of which led to
01:46:43.000
their divorce. And I'll just give you one other thing, a couple of details from the complaint.
01:46:49.160
The wife, Heather, claims she found Sinema wrapped in a towel and texts, I guess, pictures of Sinema
01:46:56.040
wrapped in a towel and texts between them, in which Sinema called the idea of having missionary
01:47:00.260
sex, quote, boring. Said she, Sinema and Matthew frequently attended concerts together, and she
01:47:06.700
encouraged him to bring MDMA on Senate-related travel so that she could, quote, guide him through
01:47:12.600
a psychedelic experience for the lawsuit. I mean, at concerts together, hello, Coldplay.
01:47:18.180
Sinema eventually began paying for psychedelic treatments for Matthew for his PTSD from his
01:47:22.780
military service. She also purchased him a Theragun so she could, quote, work on his back.
01:47:27.640
This is all according to the lawsuit. We'll see how Sinema responds on the merits.
01:47:31.920
Um, their public displays of, uh, displays of affection were so frequent that Amel allegedly
01:47:36.980
stopped wearing his wedding ring so it wouldn't look like Sinema was putting her hands all over
01:47:40.120
a married man while they were at their concerts. Um, Heather Amel confronted her husband in October
01:47:45.420
of 2024. She texted Sinema on her husband's phone. Are you having an affair with my husband? You took a
01:47:50.100
married man away from his family. The two separated later that year. Heather Amel's complaint centers on
01:47:56.440
allegedly lascivious behavior, but she includes instances like accompanying her husband, she did,
01:48:01.600
and Sinema to a Taylor Swift concert and to Las Vegas. Sinema and Matthew Amel's relationship is
01:48:08.120
ongoing. According to Heather, they're still at it. And so your thoughts on whether this should be
01:48:15.340
something you can sue over and just on the thought of a sitting U.S. Senator getting it on with her
01:48:22.800
married bodyguard. Oh, worse has happened. I don't know. It's not a deal. Bill Clinton.
01:48:28.000
Yeah, yeah. Epstein. Yeah. You know, but so I have several thoughts. Okay. So I read this whole
01:48:32.760
complaint. You know, I love a legal document. Um, the, the, the, the thing about the missionary
01:48:38.340
sex is so funny. There's actually another detail in there that like she was talking about missionary
01:48:43.320
sex with the lights on as being boring. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I mean, any sex with the lights on is not
01:48:49.660
boring. And then, so I noticed the, uh, the original two, they were, they were women who were
01:48:57.120
successfully sued for alienation of where are the men in this? Yeah. Okay. The married person in this
01:49:02.500
scenario is the one at fault. Yeah. The one who broke the vow. He broke the vow to you. He betrayed
01:49:08.840
the vows of your marriage. He's the problem. Where's his agency? Misdirected anger. You know what I mean?
01:49:14.480
Like I'm going to go after her and think about that because do you really, really want your dirty
01:49:18.960
laundry made public? They have two young kids. Um, I, you know, what struck me as really vile,
01:49:26.480
I mean, Kirsten Sinema, Kirsten Sinema, however you say it, she, according to this filing, when they,
01:49:33.180
when, uh, Heather was in mediation with her husband to, to separate the marriage, uh, she,
01:49:38.960
she sat in, um, the driveway and she sat in the, in the parking lot while they were in there.
01:49:44.060
Kirsten Sinema did? Yeah. Working it out. And then, um, I think when he was like,
01:49:48.760
he was moving out or he was coming to get one of the kids at the home, she sat in the car in a
01:49:52.980
cul-de-sac. Again, she's really inserting herself there. Like they took one of the children out to
01:49:59.240
like, you know, do something together. That's really fucked up and it's vile, but I don't think,
01:50:05.500
I mean, if you could sue for alienation of affection, like as a federal law, the courts would be
01:50:11.060
clogged. I know. Nothing would ever get done. I mean, let's be adults here.
01:50:14.360
I have to say though, that the, the thought of like the thought of sharing children with someone
01:50:19.920
and then having the marriage breakup and then, and because of an affair and then having to see
01:50:25.380
your husband's affair partner with your children. It's awful. Like at Christmas or Thanksgiving
01:50:32.840
or a birthday is infuriating. I cannot imagine the anger that someone would feel like, I think if
01:50:42.540
you could have a lawsuit, I think I can understand how people would lash out with whatever they could.
01:50:48.240
Listen, I think if she's going to sue, ask for more than 25 K, you know?
01:50:52.380
Well, no. So the, in order to get into federal court, there has to be a dispute worth at least
01:50:55.740
50,000 or actually, I think it's now 75,000. Um, so yeah, that's, so she has to allege that
01:51:01.440
those are the minimum damages. Um, we have one picture of Matthew ML. My team is telling me
01:51:06.360
it's a little weird. It shows him at a hearing and it shows cinema looking at him. That's cinema
01:51:11.840
with her darker hair. This is the guy with the beard. This guy? They're fighting over this guy.
01:51:18.020
He's kind of a schlub. According to the New York post, that's him. All right. Uh, like ladies,
01:51:23.400
this is not worth the fight. I mean, I feel like Heather, she may have done you a favor. You should
01:51:29.180
just consider it. Yeah. Consider it. She did you a favor that you want that guy back.
01:51:34.100
I mean, it's sort of the nature of a marriage that has an affair that it's probably over.
01:51:41.640
You know what I mean? Like whether you knew it was over prior to the affair, it's probably over.
01:51:46.560
Yeah. So it's like, I'm not actually saying she did her a favor, but in a way a favor was done.
01:51:52.580
I'll just put it. And to your point, like the, the, the beginning of that, that, um, motion,
01:51:57.700
you know, she says this was a, this was a happy, loving, emotionally fulfilling. Well, maybe to her
01:52:03.740
or delusion it was, but maybe to him, it wasn't, you know, I don't know how you prove what goes on
01:52:09.380
in the human heart. I think you'd have to, you'd have to have a scenario where it like,
01:52:13.240
it was indisputably loving and happy, at least according to every witness around and texts and notes
01:52:20.380
and like objective behaviors you could point to. And then you'd have to show, I think in my mind,
01:52:25.300
the best like scenario for this lawsuit would be a woman who was conniving to steal your husband,
01:52:31.340
which does happen. There are definitely husband stealers out there who are like, I want him.
01:52:36.720
And, um, you know, like Jolene, she could have taken anyone's husband from the Dolly Parton song.
01:52:43.540
Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene. Yeah, she does. But I'm just saying,
01:52:48.720
Jolene, she could have had anybody at the point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know what you're saying.
01:52:51.260
And, and really all Dolly could do is beg Jolene not to set her sights on her man.
01:52:56.160
Okay. But so think about this, uh, Diana and Camilla, right? Charles, Diana, Camilla.
01:53:03.060
Yeah. Yes. And Diana's the gorgeous young, has everything going for her. And Camilla is sort
01:53:08.260
of the more homely, like, you know, whatever. And Camilla won, you know, like Charles was
01:53:14.640
he was never in love with Diana. That's what I mean. Like, it's like, I don't like short of like
01:53:19.580
a, a minority report level where like they can get in your brain and your heart and your gut. How do
01:53:25.520
they ever prove? I guess it would have to come down to whether the woman who steals the husband
01:53:30.060
is a conniving bitch. Like if there's evidence, she's like, I'm getting him, you know, like somehow
01:53:35.140
I'm getting sort of what Meghan Markle did to Harry. But in this scenario, Harry would be married.
01:53:38.960
But don't you think Harry's already paying that price? Like I have to just think, let
01:53:43.200
it, let it happen. Go, go and let it all happen. It all sorts itself out. So I just a quick
01:53:48.620
diversion on those two. Uh, she's in the news today. Hold on because she, hold on. This
01:53:56.360
is an exclusive from Rob Shooter who appears on the nerve and his sub stack. Meghan Markle's
01:54:02.280
planning her first return to Britain in four years, but insiders say it will only happen
01:54:05.440
if her strict personal conditions are met. She's expected to join Prince Harry at the
01:54:09.520
one-year countdown for the 2027 Invictus Games in Birmingham this July, but only on her terms.
01:54:14.440
According to his source, she wants four kind of four floors of the Hyatt completely shut
01:54:18.660
down just for her. Extra security outside. Staff not allowed to look at her. She's in total
01:54:24.420
control. Another insider adds anyone who has any interactions with her has to call her her
01:54:29.560
Royal Highness, the Duchess of Sussex. No exceptions. I totally believe that. Security
01:54:35.160
arrangements are said to include 24 seven drivers, a fleet of luxury cars, and a police
01:54:39.480
export, escort from the airport to the hotel. This is not just protection. She's asking for
01:54:44.300
a fortress, bulletproof glass at the games, armed security everywhere she goes. She is
01:54:49.680
also flying her own chef, assistant, hair and makeup team, and four separate rooms for
01:54:54.120
her PR staff alone. Nothing will be left to chance. Um, who travels with their chef? I mean,
01:55:00.940
that's the next level and bulletproof glass, of course, because she really thinks that people
01:55:06.260
are much more focused on her than they are. I'm sorry. I believe every word. I believe every word
01:55:11.180
of that. I do as well. And I think that means that this trip is going to go really well for her.
01:55:16.140
She's really going to convince those Brits that she's a changed woman and they should really love
01:55:20.940
her. She's no longer drunk on her own wine. She's humbled herself. She's a woman of the people.
01:55:25.740
Yeah. I love the HRH detail because she's not allowed to use it. The queen, that was, that was
01:55:31.820
the, I don't know if it was memorialized in writing, but that was part of the deal of Megxit. HRH off
01:55:37.580
the table. She can use the Duchess of Sussex, but she's not supposed to use HRH. Right. Whatever. I
01:55:43.180
feel like people are over her. Don't you think she's like, they're over this bitch. I do, but I feel
01:55:46.440
to your point, like it's a, it's a dig, it's a, it's further, um, aggression against William and
01:55:52.860
Catherine. Oh, you say we can't use the HRH. Guess what? I'm going to use it. I'm just doing
01:55:57.200
it. Call me. Yeah. F you, you know, it's so, uh, everything about this woman is aggression. It's
01:56:03.420
just insufferable. She's petty. She's a petty person. She's a miserable person. Yeah. And the
01:56:08.440
title, my God, she's the kind of person who would pay to get a golden globe. Absolutely. All right.
01:56:12.880
Now we've got to move on to the story that I have been dying to do. I like an hour before airtime,
01:56:17.100
I was like, Maureen, we've got to talk about this. And we've both now gotten up to speed.
01:56:20.800
So about, it was like November of 2024. Hold on. I actually have it right in front of me.
01:56:26.140
Yeah. November of 2024, the New York times dropped this piece, but today, January 16th,
01:56:32.700
2026, they dropped the podcast with live interviews. Well, not live interview, but on tape interviews
01:56:39.140
of the parents involved. And it is a riveting piece of work. I highly recommend everybody
01:56:46.040
listen to today's The Daily. It was an excellent episode. And it is an episode about two parents,
01:56:53.720
um, whose names are, hold on, uh, Daphna and Alexander, who goes by Xander. They're married
01:57:00.640
to each other and they were trying to conceive a baby. They already had one daughter and they went
01:57:06.000
to the IVF clinic because I think the mom was in her forties, needed help. And she conceived another
01:57:11.000
child. She gave birth to the child, a girl. And they did notice shortly after the baby was born
01:57:18.240
that the baby did not look like them. They are, the mother is, I think they said she has red hair
01:57:24.540
or she comes from like a long line of red heads and her hair is more like light brownish red.
01:57:29.020
And the husband's more fair too. Their skin seems very fair. And, um, their baby, it, it would come
01:57:37.220
to look more so over the first three months, looked darker skinned and looked Asian. And, you know,
01:57:46.680
dark skinned Asian is not something a Maureen Callahan or a Megyn Kelly could produce, um,
01:57:52.900
if we're married to guys who look anything like us. So they started to get a little nervous as I
01:57:58.520
think any IVF parent would, because let's face it, it's not like having a baby naturally. We're like,
01:58:04.240
you know, damn well who fathered your child. Um, so they were getting nervous and eventually they
01:58:12.460
did decide to do a parent test, like a genetic test where they sent in for results and they sent
01:58:20.780
their baby's like cheek swab in. Then think of it like, what a scary thing to do? Because like,
01:58:27.020
what if the outcome is not what you want? Then, then what, what are you going to do next? I think a lot
01:58:33.200
of parents would just like never ask, but they felt like they had to, they felt like, what if this
01:58:40.200
is not our child and we've effectively stolen somebody else's child without any fault of our
01:58:44.460
own. And also what if the child we conceived in a Petri dish, we all know that's how IVF is done
01:58:51.720
is out there being raised by someone else. So they sent the cheek swabs into this company
01:59:00.020
that will run the tests. And the, the mother talks about how she called and said, when am I getting
01:59:08.220
the results? And they were like, Oh, so you know, we have them, but you'll get them sometime next week.
01:59:12.280
And the mother's like, please don't do that to me. And the woman was like, we'll have them to you in
01:59:18.380
an hour. And somehow they got like an envelope to them. Maybe it was just an email. I don't know.
01:59:24.680
But here's that piece of the daily podcast. Listen. So I open it up. It's a jumble of words
01:59:34.280
and numbers. At first, there's two PDFs. I lock in on one for the, you know, father, one for the
01:59:40.000
mother. So I open up the father one and I'm going through the numbers and I'm going through the letters
01:59:44.880
and the words, and I'm trying to make sense of it. And then at the bottom, there it is 99.9% positive
01:59:50.000
that the subject is not the father. And your reaction was really quick. It was just like,
01:59:57.120
what about me? What about me? Yeah. Cause I'm in full panic mode. I'm like pacing with the baby.
02:00:01.220
You're holding her and you're like, okay, well, what about me? Let's like click on the other
02:00:04.280
attachment for the mother. Then he has a big, long sigh without any words.
02:00:11.020
Yeah. And it said 99.9% chance you're not the mother.
02:00:20.000
Neither one of them is the genetic parent of Maymay. She's not the biological mom. He's not
02:00:28.240
the biological dad. And this beautiful baby who has made their lives so whole and feel so complete
02:00:36.080
and has brought them so much joy is really in a sense, a genetic stranger.
02:00:41.260
Maureen. It was, you know, I, I, I couldn't understand how the mother in particular was so
02:00:54.340
composed in retelling the story because I think your mind could go to some very dark places. Like
02:01:00.560
if the embryo wasn't accidentally destroyed, if it's not sitting in a freezer, it's been implanted in
02:01:08.120
someone else and who are these people and where is my baby?
02:01:11.960
Yes. And I think the, the very first thought I would have, which would be someone's going to
02:01:19.140
take my baby, like my baby that I carried and I birthed and I use Sarah Jessica Parker's favorite
02:01:24.940
word. Um, and that I've been raising and nursing for three months. They've had this baby. Someone's
02:01:32.140
I'm going to lose this baby. I'm going to have to give this baby to somebody because it turns out
02:01:36.860
she's not mine. And the thought of that for any mother would be totally devastating.
02:01:42.980
You know, I, I know it's a, it's a shorter episode, but I wish they had touched on this
02:01:47.420
now that you bring it up. She did give birth to that child. She carried that child for nine months,
02:01:54.860
10 months, gave birth to it, nursed it, stayed up with it all night. You know, that child was hers
02:02:02.600
in so many ways, that child was hers. And, um, I, when you, when you get to the point where they,
02:02:10.740
they figure out what's happened and the, the grief that comes along with knowing, like,
02:02:17.100
even though they knew like evolution kicks in, this is not our child, but this is our child.
02:02:23.100
Yeah. You know, I mean, it's the same as like an adoptive mom and dad,
02:02:26.260
100% feel that this is their child. They know biologically it's not their child,
02:02:30.480
but every adoptive parent I know says you lose that very soon after you get that child. Like
02:02:34.740
there's a little bit in the beginning, like, okay, this is not ours genetically,
02:02:37.720
but very soon after it's forgotten. This is your child. And, and also knowing for this baby,
02:02:46.540
you are the only mother. Yes. And you, you know, in your heart,
02:02:52.020
you are going to be torn apart from this child. Like this child's going to lose. It's the only
02:02:57.200
mother it's ever known. It's so devastating. Honestly, I listened to this episode several
02:03:02.920
times. I teared up and I have to give credit to the New York times. They did a great job
02:03:06.980
with the storytelling. And then, so now they know and they hire a lawyer who contacts the fertility
02:03:17.280
clinic to say, Oh my God, you know, they, you implanted someone else's baby in Daphna and the
02:03:27.200
fertility clinic goes back and checks its records and figures out what other transplants transfers,
02:03:33.160
they call them when they put the embryo inside of you. We're done that day. And they do figure out
02:03:39.200
whose baby this is. And now the question is, okay, we, we found, they call their daughter,
02:03:47.500
Maymay. We found Maymay's real parents, her biological parents. Where's our embryo? Cause
02:03:53.960
we fertilized an embryo too. Did it not take because you can fertilize an embryo and it can
02:03:58.860
not take like, I mean, for lack of a better term, it kind of melts or like it, it has enough
02:04:04.560
genetic defects that it doesn't like work out or you discarded it accidentally. Or did you put it
02:04:13.940
in Maymay's biological mom, which is what happened. So Maymay's biological mom, who is Asian, I think,
02:04:24.980
no, no, she's Latina and Maymay's biological dad is Asian. So indeed the baby that they're raising as
02:04:32.360
Maymay looks Latina and Asian because she is, they've been raising a white, you know, fair,
02:04:41.920
I don't know if she had red hair, but like obviously much more light skinned and light haired baby
02:04:45.940
who's a lot larger too than little Maymay. They've been calling their baby Zoe. And it turns out
02:04:52.560
they had similar worries about their baby because they too realized that this is a picture of Zoe.
02:05:02.360
Um, who doesn't look Asian or Latina. I know, but as sweet as they come and they had this worry in
02:05:10.920
the back of their heads, but they, unlike the first couple had not done anything about it. I'm sure
02:05:14.740
they were living in fear. It's just like the babies were only about a month or two old, right? I thought
02:05:19.440
they, I think they were three months old when they began. Okay. Yeah. And, but they didn't have to go
02:05:23.620
through the hellacious period that Daphna and Xander had to go through because they did not do genetic
02:05:28.740
testing. They just got a call one day from the fertility clinic saying, oh my God. I mean,
02:05:33.560
they had a terrible dose of news, but they didn't have like the anticipatory period that Daphna and
02:05:38.140
Xander did. They got the call saying, your baby's not your genetic baby. You do have a biological child.
02:05:46.020
It was implanted in Daphna who now would like her baby back and would like to give you her baby.
02:05:55.180
Although it wasn't really clear what the remedy was going to be. I don't know. The clinic didn't
02:05:59.220
actually say that, but it was just like, Hey, FYI made a mistake. Take care. And then they talk about
02:06:07.340
how, how things would go down. Like they decided to meet the four parents with the babies. I'm trying
02:06:16.240
to remember the second thought that we have, Deb. Is it from the meeting? Um, stand by, hold on. It's
02:06:23.080
okay. Let's hear about, let's hear it. Here's the second sound bite from the daily.
02:06:30.320
So we have some information that we found, uh, the lab has found her parents. They think they know
02:06:39.200
who her parents are. They are pretty sure they have identified who Maymay's biological parents are.
02:06:46.800
Wow. Now that couple also is raising a young girl who is the same age as Maymay. We don't know if
02:06:56.780
that's another embryo of theirs. If that is your embryo, if that is someone else's embryo,
02:07:02.700
we don't know anything about that other baby, but we are, are, are pretty sure that, that this is
02:07:14.500
So it turned out to be the case that their child Zoe was being raised by, um, they go, the, the
02:07:21.500
Latina mom is going by Annie for purposes of the story. And the dad I think is unnamed.
02:07:25.940
So Annie, who's Latina is raising Zoe, but Zoe's not hers. Daphna, who's the fair skinned redhead
02:07:34.360
is raising Maymay, who's not hers. And now they have to decide what to do. And they say this,
02:07:40.580
listen, this is in the article that was written up back in November of 24. On the last day of the
02:07:44.960
year, Daphna and Alexander stood in their living room, waiting to meet Zoe, their biological baby
02:07:49.760
for the first time. They could hear her crying as Annie and her husband approached their front door.
02:07:54.600
The sound was eerily like Olivia's cry because Daphna and Alexander have an older sister named
02:08:00.120
Olivia, you know, a first child. The sound was eerily like Olivia's cry at that age, as if emerging
02:08:06.040
from a time capsule. Listening to it crystallized everything Daphna and Alexander had been feeling
02:08:10.820
for the past two weeks, that there was a child out there in the world so close, but whom they
02:08:15.320
couldn't see or hold or comfort. They lived 10 minutes away from each other. Daphna bounced
02:08:21.580
Maymay in her arms as they waited for the doorbell to ring. Alexander swore a nervous curse and May
02:08:28.260
stared at him, a look of consternation on her face, reaching for her father with her tiny hand.
02:08:33.820
Both couples had made other plans that day for their older children because little Zoe had an older
02:08:38.700
sister too. Their parents knew it would be hard enough to manage their own emotions without having
02:08:44.080
to manage the siblings too. The bell finally rang and then Annie was inside, smiling at the baby in
02:08:50.560
Daphna's arms, reaching for her. I'm sorry, she said, weeping, her breath ragged. She kissed May's
02:08:58.080
cheek twice as to the baby she's been raising that isn't hers and buried her face in the crook of the
02:09:03.000
baby's neck. She sat down on the couch, her backpack still on. How are you? How are you? She asked,
02:09:10.360
holding May in her lap so she could marvel at her face through tears. So this is, let me correct
02:09:15.340
myself, this is Annie meeting her own biological daughter for the first time. Um, then they talk
02:09:21.700
about, about Daphna holding her baby, who's Zoe, for the first time. She was shocked by how different
02:09:30.040
Zoe felt, how big Zoe was compared to May. She realized that none of the clothing she had bought
02:09:35.440
for this daughter would fit. Soon the husbands were holding the babies. Both mother, mother's
02:09:40.820
gazes veered from the sight of their own child in someone else's arms. Think of this moms out there.
02:09:46.420
It's your baby. You've raised the baby. You carried the baby. You gave birth to the baby. You've been
02:09:50.460
nursing the baby for three months. Now another woman is holding your baby and you're going to have to
02:09:55.140
give this baby up. You are not going to be able to keep this baby. It's so fucking devastating.
02:09:59.780
Veered from the sight of their own child and someone else's arms to the sight of the other
02:10:04.320
child in their husband's arms. Each was doing the best she could to let the other mother have all
02:10:08.420
the psychic space she needed with her daughter. For almost two weeks, the families visited every
02:10:13.960
other day. Sometimes at Daphna's house, sometimes at Annie's house. Often the two mothers did what
02:10:20.300
Alexander came to think of as the mama dance. Each would go to change a child's diaper, then step back
02:10:25.160
for a moment. Is it okay if I, like I'm getting emotional, I'm thinking about this. Can you imagine
02:10:30.660
like asking for permission if you could change your own baby's diaper because you didn't know
02:10:35.120
your baby because somebody else carried it? Would you rather that you, they had endless tiny details
02:10:41.100
to discuss. Does she use a binky? How long does she nap? Do you hold her until she falls asleep
02:10:45.280
and then put her down or just put her down? What's her favorite bedtime music? How much did she weigh?
02:10:50.500
The couples were inventing a new kind of relationship as they went and it was far from a given that the
02:10:56.080
transition would go smoothly. Then they write this, on January 16th, the families each had their
02:11:02.420
babies. January 16th, which is two years ago, I think exactly. I think this was, yeah. The families
02:11:07.480
each held their babies overnight for the first time and Daphna started to feel the connection
02:11:13.240
she'd been longing to feel. When she gave Zoe, again, this is her biological child who she's just
02:11:19.660
getting to know, a bath before bedtime. She took her daughter in her arms, inhaled the scent of her
02:11:24.300
head, felt her soft downy hair. Somehow she smelled like home, like their towels, like their shampoo,
02:11:29.900
maybe even their pheromones. Daphna couldn't help thinking of May, 10 minutes away, now at Annie's
02:11:37.160
and her husband's home. May seemed farther along developmentally than Zoe and Daphna worried
02:11:42.420
that the change would be harder for her. You know, worried that like her maymay is going to know
02:11:48.280
she's been switched. That night, in fact, May over at Annie's house was crying inconsolably.
02:11:56.000
Annie was distraught that she could not comfort her, her heart breaking for a baby she already
02:12:01.960
loved, but who was sobbing she was sure for a mother Annie could not possibly be at that moment.
02:12:09.780
Oh my God. This is so heartbreaking. Ultimately, they wind up thinking that they're just going to
02:12:18.360
switch the babies and they're going to have to go cold turkey because it's just too hard on the
02:12:22.720
families to do this half in, half out thing. And they try that and it doesn't work. The mothers miss
02:12:31.300
the babies and they wind up coming up with like a way to live. It was around COVID, almost like on a
02:12:37.760
family compound or in a way that's very integrated. And like they, Annie allows her child, her biological
02:12:48.640
child to call Daphna Mama D. And they find a way to keep the relationship alive for both parents with
02:12:59.200
the daughter that is not actually theirs, which like is a, is a relief somehow. I mean, like as a
02:13:05.600
mother, I'm just like, Oh my, thank God. Cause you like, it just raises the question. What is
02:13:10.940
motherhood? Like what is parenthood? You know, is it, you'd want your biological child back. There's
02:13:17.540
no question. You'd want your biological child, but who is the mother of the little baby at three months
02:13:23.160
in? Is it that other mother 10 minutes away? Who's got the biological claim? Or is it you
02:13:28.300
who carried the baby, gave birth to the baby? I've been nursing the baby and love the baby. And the
02:13:33.500
baby loves you. What is parenthood? And Aureen, I have to tell you, it made me think about
02:13:40.140
surrogacy for like gay men. This has become more and more controversial. And I have lots of gay
02:13:49.920
men friends in my life who's, who've used surrogates to have babies. And I have celebrated
02:13:55.300
with them and sent them baby gifts. And I never really gave a lot of thought to
02:14:01.920
what it was doing to a baby to, to take it away from its biological mother. I mean,
02:14:07.980
the surrogate carries the child. Sometimes the surrogate is the biological mother and it's her
02:14:13.120
eggs. And sometimes it's not, sometimes they use a donor egg and you just find a surrogate who will
02:14:18.000
carry the baby. But you think about the baby who gets taken out of the mother, like the bio,
02:14:22.820
the one who birthed it, her arms and given to two people who are strangers to the baby.
02:14:30.520
I don't know. Like, I love my gay friends too much to weigh in negatively on it. You know what
02:14:36.260
I mean? Like, it's too painful for me to think of, what if, what if one of my sons ever turned
02:14:40.100
out to be gay? They're not gay. I already know they're straight, but like, would I be okay with
02:14:44.140
them just never having children? And I know people in the Catholic faith and the Christian faith feel
02:14:48.440
very strongly about this, that it's deeply immoral and wrong. But anyway, the whole thing just raises
02:14:53.540
so many questions about IVF, which I'm also biased on because I use. I know my kids are mine.
02:14:59.220
Raises questions about surrogacy. Raises questions about messing with God's will. And then just raises
02:15:04.680
questions about whether these fertility clinics need to be much, much better regulated. Because
02:15:10.840
the lawyer in the piece points out that they say, um, he's, they did file a lawsuit against the
02:15:16.920
clinic for medical malpractice negligence and breach of contract. I don't know where it landed,
02:15:21.020
but this lawyer who specializes in these claims says, um, while he's encountered fewer than 10 cases
02:15:26.540
in which an embryo was transferred to the wrong woman, which is, what do you mean? Like how many more
02:15:31.840
are there? Okay. You've encountered fewer than 10. That doesn't mean there are fewer than 10,
02:15:35.880
but he believes that the public becomes aware of only a fraction of the errors that occur in these
02:15:42.220
labs. And he points out that they're under-regulated relative to most medical procedures or says,
02:15:48.280
this is what a law professor says in the piece. And also they point out that the reason it was
02:15:53.660
uncovered here is because the race of the children was different. Exactly. Exactly. That was my point.
02:15:58.840
That was exactly what I was going to say. Right. I do. You're definitely right. They need,
02:16:02.580
they need to be regulated far more, uh, with far more scrutiny. I believe there have,
02:16:07.340
there's been at least one case of a fertility clinic where the actual physician running it was
02:16:13.280
replacing the sperm with his sperm. With his own. You know, there's that, um, I'm pro surrogacy
02:16:18.720
for whoever wants it. I think, um, it, it is complicated. It is emotionally painful. It's not easy.
02:16:27.080
I think when all parties go into it willingly and know that, you know, heartbreak is there. Yes. But
02:16:34.740
also the, to, uh, for people who are, who are so desperate to have a child and this is their only
02:16:44.080
recourse and there are angels among us who do it. And you know what I learned recently,
02:16:48.160
often, um, um, women who are surrogates tend to get pregnant in their own relationships shortly
02:16:56.780
thereafter. Oh, interesting. Yeah. They're replacing it. It's kind of, I don't know if it's a
02:17:01.900
replacement that might be the incorrect word, but it has created a sort of a need to have a baby. I
02:17:08.160
actually found this story at one of hope and I found it actually quite heartwarming because the way
02:17:17.280
they build the story and you're with these people, but Daphna and Xander in particular,
02:17:21.640
because the other family doesn't really talk the agony. There's a moment where Daphna talks about,
02:17:27.440
um, she's got Zoe back and may may's, you know, 10 minutes away, but she, she would keep it together
02:17:34.060
during the day. And then she would go into the shower and she would weep. And her husband describes
02:17:38.720
the sounds as like a wounded animal. Like winning. Yeah. And that, and that she, at some point she had
02:17:44.860
like a moment where she said to herself, I have to be there for Zoe, you know, because Zoe,
02:17:49.420
Zoe got very, Zoe started crying when Daphna left the house for a minute to throw the trash out.
02:17:54.520
And she came back and Zoe was hysterical and she was like, that's it. But that they all,
02:17:58.520
like every person in the story seems like a wonderful person. They do. They seem like really
02:18:02.620
good people. They came together. The mothers each, it could have, one of the mothers could have been
02:18:07.420
like, you know, completely acrimonious, bitter. I'm not giving you any access to this kid. It's mine.
02:18:12.480
You know, all of those horrible thoughts. And instead these girls will grow up knowing each
02:18:16.880
other. They said they're like sisters now. Yes. And it's such a wonderful, beautiful,
02:18:22.060
it's like the best of humanity. It's the best possible outcome it could be. Yeah. Under the
02:18:27.280
circumstances. Yeah. I mean, they, they were very lucky. Here's a picture of the two girls for the
02:18:32.840
listening audience. It just shows a girl with blonde hair on the left and a girl with darker hair on the
02:18:36.920
right playing with a little doll setter. Barbie said, I can't quite make it out from the pick from here.
02:18:42.040
But the, in a way it's, it's like, like, God forbid they had found out that their biological
02:18:50.000
daughter, that that, that her embryo had been lost. I know. Right. Like, and they just had to give up
02:18:57.600
their baby. Yeah. And not have a baby. Yeah. You know, that's the worst case scenario. I'm sure for
02:19:04.580
the parents when they're, when they find out they're not the biological parents. Now they're asking what
02:19:08.620
happened to our embryo. There had to be that period where they're like, Oh my God.
02:19:12.420
Oh, definitely. We, we could have nothing. We could have no daughter. And, and, but there's
02:19:18.040
something in them that, that just wanted to know, you know, they talk about like pulling the trigger
02:19:22.440
to get the genetic test done. And, you know, to your point about like this raising questions about
02:19:27.640
surrogacy and technology and reproduction long before surrogacy was a thing. And, and we're similar
02:19:33.860
ages. So you probably remember it. I think it was a tri-state story. I think it was in New York,
02:19:38.160
a New Jersey woman. Remember it was like. Switched at birth. Well, there were switched at birth stories.
02:19:42.420
That was the greatest story ever told. I mean, it was terrible, but like most riveting.
02:19:45.960
Yeah. No, the switched at birth stories that happens in hospitals too, where, you know, parents get,
02:19:50.200
go home and like, you know, a week later they're like, this doesn't feel right, but they're like
02:19:53.980
gaslighting themselves because how could that happen? You know? And the, the very, one of the very
02:19:59.800
first surrogacy stories I think in America was the surrogate Mary Jo who was like, I want the baby
02:20:04.040
back. Oh God. Remember? Oh my God. Yes. And it was like this long, protracted lawsuit. And it went to
02:20:09.500
like ideas of, should we federalize this? Should we outlaw it? Like, is this what's going on? You
02:20:14.320
know, but humans want families, they want babies and you know, everything's imperfect. But I, I actually
02:20:23.260
really did find this story like beautiful. It was, I can't get over the thought of, and like,
02:20:30.040
anybody's ever had a child is thinking of this too. Like three months in, you're totally bonded to
02:20:34.180
this child. Three months is when they really start smiling and becoming much more interactive and like
02:20:38.680
less of like a blob, you know, that you love, but it's not as interactive with you. Um, and so like,
02:20:45.080
that's when you truly like, you're falling in love with your child. I mean, deeply in love with your
02:20:49.040
child and like, you've got to give it away. And then I just don't know when you get a child given to you,
02:20:55.940
you know, sort of in return, that's yours biologically. Do you love it instantly?
02:21:00.240
Or do you have to start a new falling in love with that child? Because the child you love that
02:21:04.660
you are in love with is out of your house and now is going to be calling someone else mother and mama.
02:21:11.560
And like, when she cries in the night, you won't be there. You have to rely on another mother's
02:21:17.120
generous, loving nature, which you believe in. They both say that they, these moms fell in love with
02:21:21.460
each other too. But like the thought that I bet you, she did wail like an animal in the,
02:21:26.740
in the shower because I'll bet it took a while to, to fall in love. It's just called being human
02:21:32.800
with the new baby who is yours biologically, but like, I don't think you just fall in love
02:21:39.120
immediately. No, I don't think so either. And I think it also goes to, you know, in some ways this
02:21:44.280
is like, I think this story is so illuminating because even mothers who give birth biologically to their
02:21:50.700
own child conceived naturally, people don't talk about it because there's stigma around it,
02:21:56.220
whether it's postpartum or whether it's something else. Sometimes it doesn't click in right away.
02:22:01.700
And you're made to feel like you're a freak. What do you mean you don't love your infant instantly,
02:22:06.160
your newborn instantly? And it just goes to the, how complicated love is and maternal love. And
02:22:13.320
I just, her mourning this baby while she's got her own biological baby who she's having trouble
02:22:20.660
bonding with and who she's probably worried she's failing in some way. And is she going to imprint
02:22:25.540
on this baby some sort of, you know what I mean? Yes. And then you look at that photo and they're,
02:22:31.060
they have, they actually like, they have a sibling they never would have had before.
02:22:35.260
Well, I really hope that those girls are playing with the greatest Barbie set known to mankind
02:22:40.160
because their parents got ideally an eight figure settlement from the IVF clinic. I mean,
02:22:46.220
the negligence in this field is completely unacceptable. It just cannot happen. There
02:22:51.400
are certain fields in which there just cannot be negligence or medical malpractice. It's just a hard
02:22:56.800
no because there are real lives at stake and you know, you are playing, you're playing God. You are.
02:23:03.320
And I say this, yeah, with some judgment, but it's not like I'm condemning IVF. I'm a big fan of it
02:23:08.860
because I used it myself and I wouldn't have my kids without it. So I don't know. I'm sure it's
02:23:13.880
raising a lot for a lot of people listening. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. You can email me
02:23:17.000
megan at megankelly.com. I always pause because I always almost give out my actual personal email.
02:23:26.280
No offense to you, members of the audience, but like that would be overwhelming if we filled up
02:23:29.860
that one with, with the show emails. Anyway, I would love to hear from you. And also Maureen would
02:23:35.480
too. Maureen, what's your email? Maureen at devilmaycaremedia.com. Yeah. All right. Listen,
02:23:40.580
what a, what a Friday show. Thank you all so much for listening. This has been a long one and a great
02:23:44.580
one. I needed this one, Maureen. It feels very cathartic, doesn't it? I love you so much. It's
02:23:48.560
great to see you. I love you too. God, everybody have a great weekend. Thanks to you all for joining us
02:23:53.360
and we'll see you on Monday. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
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