The Megyn Kelly Show - Shocking DOGE Findings, Elon vs. Sen. Kelly, and Hillary's Hypocrisy, with Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine ｜ Ep. 1037

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00:00:31.280 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.960 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:44.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:47.420 Yes, it's Friday.

00:00:48.480 Did this feel like a long week to you or a short week?

00:00:51.800 I'm kind of in between.

00:00:53.600 In any event, it's going to be a great day today.

00:00:58.260 It's day 67 of the Trump administration.

00:01:01.140 Only 67.

00:01:02.080 Can you believe that?

00:01:03.060 You know how like after 100 days, the news media always looks back and says like,

00:01:07.080 what did this president accomplish?

00:01:09.000 It's only day 67.

00:01:10.720 He's lived up to virtually every single campaign promise he made.

00:01:14.680 It's absolutely stunning.

00:01:17.500 Through no thanks of the courts who have been trying to stop him via leftist petitions to

00:01:23.120 do just that at every turn.

00:01:24.940 And we have breaking news on that in one second.

00:01:26.740 But first, just let me give you a couple of the headlines we're looking at this morning.

00:01:30.460 We've got Elon Musk's Doge now going on real offense.

00:01:35.020 This seems like overdue to me because, look, they've been taking such a beating in the press

00:01:39.960 and in terms of their reputation and so on.

00:01:42.120 And finally, they spoke out.

00:01:44.460 They went on with Bret Baier last night, Elon, and some of his top lieutenants in Doge.

00:01:48.460 And what a difference.

00:01:50.320 I think the numbers on Doge are going to go up after that interview and pretty quickly,

00:01:54.780 their efforts to cut waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:01:56.800 I really, now having seen them, I'm like, why did they let this image of just young whippersnappers

00:02:03.020 in their backpacks and, like, surfer boy clothes go on as long as they did?

00:02:08.240 These are studs.

00:02:10.380 And they should have been put out there a little earlier.

00:02:13.780 Well, whatever, you know, better late than never.

00:02:16.680 So we'll show you a lot of the clips from that.

00:02:19.400 And we are also going to talk about this, the breaking news at the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:02:23.360 I want to get to it all with editor-in-chief of Two-Way, Mark Halperin, and host of the

00:02:27.820 new Megyn Kelly media podcast called Next Up with Mark Halperin, launching soon, along

00:02:34.200 with former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer and former Democratic strategist Dan

00:02:39.660 Turrentine together.

00:02:41.140 They are the hosts of The Morning Meeting on the Two-Way YouTube channel.

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00:03:48.000 Guys, welcome back.

00:03:49.640 Good to see you.

00:03:50.320 Good to be here, Megan.

00:03:51.260 Thank you.

00:03:52.640 Mark, I'm so excited to be working together.

00:03:54.560 I can't wait to get this thing started.

00:03:56.100 And the feedback from the viewers has been overwhelming.

00:03:59.240 They are in love with this idea.

00:04:02.380 Well, I couldn't be more excited.

00:04:03.740 Very grateful to you, Steve, and your colleagues there for inviting me to join up.

00:04:07.340 And it will be fun.

00:04:09.440 And I hope to be worthy of being part of the mega metropolis of your media empire.

00:04:18.340 So thank you.

00:04:19.040 Very excited about it.

00:04:20.580 Mark, my words.

00:04:21.600 You will be.

00:04:22.380 Okay, let's get to it.

00:04:23.520 So moments ago, the Trump administration filing a petition with the U.S. Supreme Court

00:04:30.200 asking it to review the Court of Appeals order in the Judge Boasberg case on the deportations

00:04:38.220 of suspected Venezuelan gang members.

00:04:42.160 This has been one of, if not the biggest legal matter that they've been hashing out in the

00:04:46.080 courts, though how can you really choose?

00:04:48.160 And Trump lost on Wednesday with a divided D.C. Circuit three-judge panel.

00:04:55.500 A Trump-appointed judge would have sided with the administration.

00:04:58.940 An Obama-appointed judge sided with the ACLU.

00:05:03.680 And the splitter was an H.W. Bush appointee who sided with the Obama judge and said, 0.78

00:05:10.380 you can't use the Alien Enemies Act to just deport a bunch of people.

00:05:16.220 Now, here's what's interesting.

00:05:16.940 So they're asking the Supreme Court for immediate review because right now what's happening is

00:05:21.440 Judge Boasberg's order halting these deportations stands.

00:05:26.460 So the Trump policy has effectively been shut down until we get a final ruling from the U.S.

00:05:32.260 Supreme Court on this.

00:05:33.000 And, you know, there's been no, like, real evidentiary hearing.

00:05:36.220 Like, Trump is in there saying, no, the policy should be allowed to go forward until we have

00:05:41.380 our final order.

00:05:42.340 This is wrong.

00:05:43.940 Okay, so we'll find out what the Supreme Court does.

00:05:45.680 But as this happens, a very interesting piece in the news this morning.

00:05:52.120 Okay, it was, do you have it, Abby?

00:05:56.380 All right, no, I don't think that's it.

00:05:58.140 Hold on, stand by, stand by.

00:06:01.100 Okay, I've got it.

00:06:02.420 Sorry, I have so much paper.

00:06:03.300 This is all stuff we're going to be getting to, so buckle up.

00:06:08.820 The question is whether the Alien Enemies Act can be used by a president when it's not

00:06:17.740 technically a time of war, meaning war hasn't been declared by Congress, but the president

00:06:23.760 has used other language from the Alien Enemies Act to declare an invasion or an incursion.

00:06:30.000 Now, Judge Boesberg was not convinced that a president can do that by proclamation and

00:06:35.200 that if he can, it's an appropriate circumstance here.

00:06:38.620 And the Court of Appeals agreed with Judge Boesberg on those points.

00:06:43.260 They're not convinced that this is an incursion or an invasion as those terms would typically

00:06:51.080 be used.

00:06:52.460 Enter this piece today.

00:06:56.180 It's posted on Real Clear Politics.

00:06:57.560 It's by Bart Marquois, C-O-I-S.

00:07:01.980 And he makes the strong case based on another piece of journalism he had witnessed that Tren

00:07:11.340 de Aragua is indeed, it qualifies as a military incursion that's been unleashed on us by the 0.72

00:07:20.000 Venezuelan government.

00:07:21.980 And he goes through it in great detail, guys.

00:07:24.420 He says, there was an extraordinary article last week by Miami Herald investigative reporter

00:07:29.120 Antonio Maria Delgado.

00:07:31.820 And Delgado interviewed a team of high-level investigators and analysts who had been following

00:07:35.720 the Venezuelan regime for over 10 years.

00:07:38.560 The only team member to speak on the record was Gary Bernson, among the most highly decorated

00:07:42.480 CIA veterans in recent history.

00:07:44.660 The author here spoke with Bernson as well.

00:07:46.740 He confirmed that Tren de Aragua was purposefully sent into the U.S. to destabilize our country

00:07:54.940 by the Venezuelan government.

00:07:56.820 Quoting Bernson here, the Venezuelan regime has assumed operational control of these guys,

00:08:02.920 Tren de Aragua, and has trained 300 of them.

00:08:06.280 They have given them paramilitary training, training them to fire weapons and how to conduct

00:08:10.980 sabotage.

00:08:11.660 They have given them all a four- to six-week course.

00:08:16.120 They put these 300 guys through that course, and then they were deploying them into the

00:08:22.180 United States to 20 separate states.

00:08:26.640 And Bernson confirming to the author here that sabotage includes arson, taking a look at the

00:08:33.320 L.A. wildfires, the cause of which we still have not yet determined, and so on.

00:08:36.960 Um, the CIA, he says, doesn't have this information, according to Bernson, because they refused to

00:08:43.460 look at it.

00:08:44.180 We tried to brief them about this three years ago.

00:08:47.320 They were directed by the Biden administration to ignore it.

00:08:50.840 And now those officials are trying to undermine President Trump, who listened.

00:08:55.960 I have to tell you, as a lawyer, this is a very important addendum to this argument.

00:09:00.840 And if, if they can just get a hearing in front of this court to justify Trump's declaration

00:09:08.920 of invasion or incursion, I'll start with you on a Spicer, um, it could be a game changer.

00:09:15.340 Yeah, I'm going to go back to that.

00:09:16.800 I'm sure as a lawyer, you know, the case I'm going to cite common sense versus nut job,

00:09:20.740 where it, it very clearly, the court, the, the court, the court ruled that you shouldn't

00:09:27.680 have to argue that hard to get known gang members out of a country who came here illegally.

00:09:32.260 I mean, this is on its face, an insane idea that a president of the United States has to

00:09:37.620 go all the way to the Supreme court to argue that people who are known gang members coming

00:09:42.800 illegally into the country have to go through some serious process to get sent back.

00:09:47.560 I, I, I believe the court will side with president Trump, but I, I think it's sad that we actually

00:09:53.880 had to go to this level to do it.

00:09:55.920 Mm-hmm.

00:09:56.960 I don't, you know, this clearly has the support, I think, of most Americans, the deportation

00:10:01.320 plan in general, Mark has the support of most Americans.

00:10:04.100 Maybe they've got some questions on trend or Aragua, but if so, that hasn't manifested

00:10:08.160 in any polls I've seen.

00:10:09.840 I think, you know, the more dangerous the, the potential illegals are, the more Americans want 1.00

00:10:15.560 them gone, um, but you tell me how you see it.

00:10:19.400 Cause as a legal matter, it's tricky, but I think Trump's in the right, but the biggest

00:10:23.640 matter will be politically.

00:10:25.560 If the Supreme court doesn't uphold the DC circuit and allows Trump to do this, how does

00:10:32.360 it play?

00:10:32.760 And if they, if they don't allow Trump to do this, how does it play?

00:10:37.900 Well, Henry common sense versus nut job, there's always in the law, right?

00:10:44.200 There's always ambiguity and, and we don't know how any of these judges or justices will

00:10:48.000 rule when you add in the overlay of politics becomes more complicated.

00:10:51.460 I think there's two important things here.

00:10:53.060 One you've illuminated, which is super important, which is the actual facts.

00:10:56.920 If those facts are true, you'd have to make it akin to the president striking the hooties.

00:11:03.620 No federal judge is going to, is going to say, I'm enjoining the president from striking

00:11:09.440 the hooties because this is for most Americans.

00:11:12.320 And, and as a practical matter, it's every bit as urgent a war in some ways, more urgent

00:11:17.580 because it's right here at home than the president trying to, you know, clear up the shipping

00:11:22.180 lanes in the middle East.

00:11:23.580 So number one, the facts matter.

00:11:25.640 And if those facts are close to true, he should be unshackled to do this.

00:11:30.000 And these district court judges, I think should show some humility about what they're interfering

00:11:34.260 with and, and stop acting like this isn't urgent.

00:11:37.460 Number two, as someone who's had, who had federal litigation that lasted 20 years, I

00:11:42.980 know full well how slow the wheels of justice grind.

00:11:45.820 In this case, I urge every district court judge, every appellate judge, every Supreme Court

00:11:51.280 justice to think about these cases and not treat them all like they're on the same conveyor

00:11:56.280 belt of slow molasses moving.

00:11:58.600 This one should get expedited and ruled on so the president can deal with not just fulfilling

00:12:04.720 a campaign promise, but dealing with something that's threatening the life and liberty and

00:12:08.920 property of Americans, which is yes, akin to a war.

00:12:14.440 Here's, here's how the DC circuit court of appeals saw it, Dan.

00:12:19.900 They said, we understand that the government is arguing that we've had these unwanted illegals 1.00

00:12:26.700 come into the country unlawfully and you're calling it an invasion or an incursion.

00:12:32.760 But the court said those terms as used in this statute must be considered in their military

00:12:39.100 sense.

00:12:39.880 Now, already as, as a lawyer, I'm thinking, okay, that's fine.

00:12:43.700 Who, who has the ultimate say on military calls?

00:12:46.260 It's it's the commander in chief.

00:12:48.120 It's not judge Bozberg and it's, it's not even the U S Supreme court.

00:12:52.080 And if you read the terms of the alien enemies act, it specifically says that, I mean, the

00:12:56.460 Supreme court's already said, we don't have jurisdiction to review commander in chief calls

00:12:59.980 under this, but under very limited circumstances, they can review a couple of pieces of it.

00:13:04.780 So in any event, that's what they said.

00:13:07.360 First of all, those terms invaded or encourage incursion has to be considered in the military

00:13:12.140 sense.

00:13:12.820 Uh, and then they go on to say, uh, okay, these words in the statute must be read to mean quote,

00:13:20.860 a hostile encroachment by a nation state and concluded that these conditions do not exist

00:13:27.840 because we haven't had a hostile encroachment by a nation state.

00:13:30.340 Now, if this stuff about trend to Aragua is true, that's a very different story.

00:13:37.180 And judge Bozberg had no right to shut down the commander in chief's call on this just

00:13:44.880 from just with his pen.

00:13:46.640 He hasn't had an evidentiary hearing at all.

00:13:50.000 He shut it down saying, I believe they're going to win.

00:13:53.040 And the DC circuit court said, yeah, us too.

00:13:56.160 And now if the Supreme court doesn't step in, this whole policy could be shut down, even

00:14:01.000 though the Venezuelans really may be trying to send an incursion into the United States

00:14:06.600 because judge Bozberg thinks he knows better.

00:14:10.860 Look, Democrats should not ever be on the side of criminals, uh, who are illegal immigrants. 0.88

00:14:16.480 And I think the issue of immigration has bedeviled the party now for the last, you know, eight

00:14:21.640 or nine years.

00:14:22.680 And I think to Sean's point, we have been on the wrong side of common sense issues the

00:14:28.080 last couple months.

00:14:29.300 And so I think the party's probably best path here is to support the crackdown on criminal

00:14:36.080 illegal immigrants and just say, look, the justice system should work this out.

00:14:40.740 We have rules and processes in place.

00:14:42.980 You know, let's let it work its way, but not try to kind of like spike the football and

00:14:49.200 look like we are on the side of protecting criminal illegal immigrants. 0.56

00:14:54.420 It is in everyone's interest to get them off the streets.

00:14:57.920 To Mark's point, poll after poll, you know, here where I live in New York City and down in

00:15:02.340 DC, they had the big arrest earlier this week.

00:15:04.900 MS-13 has been terrorizing parts of DC where a lot of Democrats live for the last 10 years.

00:15:10.460 And so where they're doing this, we should applaud Trump's efforts to try to clean up

00:15:16.080 the streets and make America safer.

00:15:18.620 Megan, if I can real quick, this is a win-win politically for President Trump.

00:15:23.360 If the Supreme Court, which I believe it will, rule in his favor for all the reasons that

00:15:28.600 you kind of enumerated there, then it's a political win.

00:15:31.980 If by chance the court at the highest level rules against him, I think at least on the MAGA

00:15:38.620 base side, and I think for a lot of independents, after the four years that we were gaslit and

00:15:43.200 told that there was no problem with immigration, that the border was sealed, that criminals

00:15:48.620 weren't coming in, they'll give President Trump credit for fighting.

00:15:53.240 And so, you know, this to him is a perfect issue because there is no downside.

00:15:57.620 There's a downside for the country.

00:15:59.180 If the court rules against us, God forbid they make us bring criminals back into the country.

00:16:03.240 But at the end of the day, I think this is one of those ones where you, if you're President

00:16:07.420 Trump leading this, to Dan's point, you have, you've put Democrats in a trap.

00:16:12.400 They either have to side with you or with the criminals.

00:16:16.880 Yeah.

00:16:17.360 With the worst of the worst, at least in some cases, the, um, the Trump administration is

00:16:22.860 asking for an urgent review at the U S Supreme court.

00:16:26.680 And my understanding is though, I'm going to have to go, have to go back and check this,

00:16:29.880 but my understanding is it's potential, it's potentially the case that chief justice, John

00:16:34.540 Roberts will be able to grant that.

00:16:36.820 Um, I know he can either at least grant them urgent review.

00:16:40.680 My only question is whether he can actually, without the support of, uh, at least four justices

00:16:45.900 in this circumstance, um, reverse the, the temporary restraining order being blocked.

00:16:52.440 Anyway, I'll find out, but this is getting hotter, uh, this whole case.

00:16:57.040 And now it's going up to the big boys and girls who actually will have the final say.

00:17:01.980 And one of the reasons why that's good is because I've made this point on this case before,

00:17:08.000 but the Supreme court's more aware than anyone, more aware than anyone, Mark, that

00:17:12.880 they don't have police power.

00:17:16.060 And that the only thing that gets us to comply with their rulings is our general respect for the

00:17:22.940 rule of law for one another, for this sort of implicit agreement. We have to live as non-barbarians

00:17:30.360 in a country where we've agreed that there's this through line that will keep us all within the 0.92

00:17:38.500 certain bounds of behavior. And, um, the Supreme court has the ultimate authority on what the law

00:17:43.440 is. And the Supreme court knows, however, John Roberts above all knows if he hands down our

00:17:51.400 ruling telling the commander in chief that the nine men and women in black robes have the final say

00:17:58.660 over what is perceived as a military threat unleashed on us by a foreign government.

00:18:05.820 He's on the thinnest of possible ice and he's so obsessed with the court. Just can't see him

00:18:13.500 wanting to do it. Well, he's an interesting figure, right? Because he does vote sometimes against

00:18:19.780 Republican presidents, including this one. Uh, he does care about the integrity of the court,

00:18:24.580 the reputation of the court, the statement he put out a few days ago, uh, uh, in reaction to the

00:18:30.380 president calling for impeachment of judges whose rulings he didn't like testifies to his willingness

00:18:35.460 to play in the real world and not just in the rarefied earth, uh, air of the high court.

00:18:40.640 I think that they're going to rule some against the president in some form, and they're going to be

00:18:44.840 some that are result oriented. They don't, they don't all rule on the merits. Sad to say, I think in

00:18:50.120 this case and in the ones, uh, that are comparable, as you suggested, as we've been mentioned,

00:18:55.500 deference, the commander in chief on this stuff, something where there's clearly popular will.

00:18:59.440 You can find that you don't need, you don't need to look outside the walls, the constitution to find

00:19:04.340 that. And I agree with Sean, they'll probably vote with the president on this one, but Roberts is got

00:19:08.800 to expedite these things. It's, it doesn't make any sense for America to not expedite them. These

00:19:13.960 should be on the fastest of tracks. They should be on a track like Bush v. Gore, not treated at all

00:19:19.920 like normal cases because it's a campaign promise and it's, it's happening now. This is not some abstract

00:19:25.600 thing. It's happening now. So I wish you were, I wish you would expect them. And then however,

00:19:30.380 the court rules, I hope the president does what he said several times he'll do, which is adhere to

00:19:35.080 the rulings of the court. I think he will. I actually do. I think he will. I think he understands

00:19:40.300 blowing off the Supreme court is, and that, that really is a true constitutional crisis. Um, we can't

00:19:46.740 have more Lake and Riley's while we wait this out. John, John Roberts, controversial though,

00:19:51.780 he is, especially with righties who wanted somebody who was more like a Thomas or an Alito

00:19:55.700 is a good man. And he is going to understand the danger of leaving little kids out there getting

00:20:03.520 molested by these rapists. That's that is happening with these gang members and young women and men being

00:20:10.020 murdered by them. I mean, every week we have a story. So time is of the essence. It's long overdue.

00:20:17.480 Thanks to Joe Biden and Trump is trying to clean up a mess. That was not of his own making. I just

00:20:22.880 don't see John Roberts wanting the Supreme court to be the thing that stops him. I will see what

00:20:29.100 we'll know better after we hear from them. And, uh, if we get an oral argument after that, okay,

00:20:34.820 let's, well, I want to get to Elon Musk and what happened last night. Cause it was such good stuff.

00:20:38.940 But before we go there, can we just spend a minute on something else Trump did yesterday,

00:20:42.800 which I think is awesome and not getting enough attention. We got an executive order that will

00:20:50.660 pull wokeness, DEI and radical, uh, you know, race essentialism and gender ideology out of the

00:20:59.900 federal museums, including most specifically the Smithsonian, uh, the zoo he mentioned. And also

00:21:07.260 he's directed JD Vance to restore the national monuments and statues that fell post George

00:21:15.980 Floyd, meaning they were ripped down by protesters, not all necessarily, but he wants him to take a

00:21:22.680 look at this. I mean, it wasn't all, you know, people who are pro-slavery or who were armies in

00:21:28.720 the Confederate army or generals in the Confederate army, Sean, that we tore down. We country Christopher

00:21:36.860 Columbus statues, Thomas Jefferson statues, George Washington statues, Ulysses S Grant,

00:21:43.700 Francis Scott key. Like you didn't have to be all that controversial for these things to get torn down.

00:21:49.260 And so Trump is actually going to take a look because for example, at this women's museum,

00:21:53.180 um, that's being built, he says specifically they were about to put trans women, meaning men posing as

00:22:01.140 women and honors to them in this thing of Trump is stopping it in its tracks.

00:22:04.940 Well, look, obviously this was a big issue in the election. Dan referenced it earlier before. I mean,

00:22:11.800 the wokeism, the pendulum swung way, way, way too far. And I think what Trump is doing is resetting

00:22:16.940 that. This is again, where he can get some great wins on these things through executive order that

00:22:22.360 while he waits for reconciliation, some of the big policy issues to come in really kind of score

00:22:27.500 points for the American people resetting the culture issues that swung too far. And so going

00:22:32.680 through the museums, resetting these things, rebuilding these statues. And the funny thing

00:22:36.540 is it's been probably eight or nine months since I seen, I saw any, any inside polling on this,

00:22:41.460 but even when it comes to Confederate statues and renaming things like Fort Bragg, uh, those were

00:22:47.120 extremely popular. It didn't mean that anybody was a Confederate or racist or anything like that.

00:22:52.160 I just, I think there's an aspect of not whitewashing history that was important. So there's,

00:22:56.460 this kind of covers a lot of ground that I think he's on solid ground with the base and,

00:23:01.820 and probably the majority of Americans, regardless of party.

00:23:04.800 What he's doing, Dan, is he's actually having JD Vance, take a look at the Smithsonian and the zoo,

00:23:09.960 et cetera. And he's having Doug Burgum as secretary of the interior, take a look at public monuments,

00:23:14.860 memorials, statues, markers, and similar properties, um, that have been removed or changed. He says to

00:23:20.800 perpetuate a false reconstruction of American history, et cetera. He can't go after like state

00:23:26.640 monuments. He can't go after, you know, the museum of natural history had Teddy Roosevelt out there.

00:23:32.420 He got torn down because there was a native American near him. I like whatever. There's 1.00

00:23:38.060 just been a lot of tearing down. He can't, if it's a local thing, he doesn't have jurisdiction,

00:23:42.100 but the, the federal land stuff and federal monuments, he does. Here are a couple of examples

00:23:47.660 on what he's concerned about in the Smithsonian American art museum. There's an exhibit that said,

00:23:54.460 quote, societies, including the U S have used race to establish and maintain systems of power,

00:23:59.420 privilege, and disenfranchisement by it. Another national museum of African-American history and

00:24:05.260 culture proclaimed that hard work, individualism, and the nuclear family are aspects of white culture

00:24:12.460 by, and then, as I told you, the women's history museum soon to soon, soon it will be forthcoming

00:24:20.840 planned to feature female athletes, including male athletes who claim to be female, which is not a

00:24:30.540 thing. It's not real. And it's not recognized by the Trump administration. So what do you think? I

00:24:34.920 mean, here's the interesting thing. It's going to happen. Trump will sanitize these organizations of

00:24:39.660 all this. And then we're going to be in an interesting position four years from now, if a Democrat were to

00:24:44.440 win the presidency, because I think this stuff will be very popular to get rid of this nonsense,

00:24:48.980 to put back up the non-controversial statutes, George Washington among them. And whenever Trump

00:24:55.440 does something, I guess, with an EO, Dan, I've been asking myself, would the Democrats really have

00:25:00.220 the nerve to tear back down George Washington, to shove back in the race essentialism at the

00:25:06.260 Smithsonian, the trigger warnings on the national archives that were all over the electronic database

00:25:11.440 about our declaration of independent? Like, what do you think?

00:25:15.540 I certainly hope that no Democrat would talk about doing that. I mean, as a rule, this is mostly one of

00:25:23.820 those 80-20 issues. You know, James Carville said last summer, or I think it was maybe a few years ago,

00:25:29.000 that sometimes Democrats sound like they're talking at the Harvard faculty lounge and not like a real person

00:25:34.000 in the real world, you know, on the streets of any town USA. I think where Trump does stuff like, you know,

00:25:40.960 put George Washington back on a military base or something like that, there is general support for

00:25:47.760 it. I think when he does something like eliminate the, you know, recognizing the Tuskegee airmen at

00:25:54.380 the Pentagon, I think sometimes people will say, hey, it's a little too far. And this is like small and

00:25:59.300 petty. And so I think generally speaking, though, look, Sean said it is a huge issue in the election.

00:26:05.640 The country kind of voted pretty overwhelmingly on this front. I think he enjoys broad support.

00:26:11.840 And look, I don't know how much you remember, I think it was a year and a half ago or two years ago,

00:26:16.480 the San Francisco school board, several members were voted out in a in a like recall election,

00:26:23.280 because the people of San Francisco parents of who lived in downtown were upset that the school

00:26:29.300 board meetings during COVID were focused on renaming the schools in these kind of DEI, you know, neutral

00:26:36.360 names and not reopening the schools for their kids to go back to. And so the history of Democrats

00:26:42.820 focusing on issues that aren't, you know, important to the average American per se is part of what has

00:26:49.680 got us in the hole that we've dug. And so to get out, I think we are best to focus on real issues

00:26:55.660 that impact the real lives of real Americans and not go back to trying to relit again, DEI.

00:27:01.220 What do you know? Tim Walsh has a bone to pick with you, my friend. He was out there campaigning

00:27:08.220 with Beto O'Rourke. Why? I don't. But he was out there having a town hall with Beto. And he sees

00:27:15.460 the loss in 2024 very differently than you do, my friend. Here he is.

00:27:20.000 That our strength is our diversity. We've been talking about this for years as a country of

00:27:27.380 immigrants, and we let them define the issue on immigration. We let them define the issue on

00:27:32.800 DEI, and we let them define what woke is. We got ourselves in this mess because we weren't bold

00:27:41.400 enough to stand up and say, you damn right were proud of these policies. We're going to put them in

00:27:45.760 and we're going to execute them. Lean in, he's saying. Lean in to all those messages.

00:27:53.240 Sean agrees. Sean says, yes, go for it. That's how we all feel. I have his back. Lean in. Lean in,

00:27:59.100 brother. And more of Jasmine Crockett, I think we can all agree, except for Dan.

00:28:04.040 Yeah, I think that, look, I think most Americans, I think, do applaud efforts to diversify

00:28:11.360 a workforce to include different people in decision-making. I think companies, and there's

00:28:19.200 a lot of research that you do get better outcomes if you have different aspects, different slices of

00:28:24.840 America at the table. I think where there's real objection is on the E, the equity, the idea that

00:28:32.420 you're going to specify 30% has to be X and 30% has to be Y, not who's most qualified, not who is

00:28:40.120 the best for that position. And I think that's where the party kind of just really lost control

00:28:45.280 of this issue. I think if we just say we're proud of having a diverse country, we're proud to try to

00:28:51.980 include people, but the most qualified, the best person should be hired or get the admissions slot

00:28:59.340 is probably kind of the middle ground when we think about the future.

00:29:04.820 On Governor Walz, I didn't understand why he was picked originally and nothing he's done since he

00:29:14.280 was picked has cleared up my confusion. On the question of these policies, your viewers understand

00:29:21.200 the central role these issues played in the election. I think part of the challenge for the

00:29:26.880 part of the country that still doesn't get it is the media, for the most part, still doesn't get it.

00:29:32.400 And when you ask about will a Democrat change it back? Well, if they rename Dulles Airport,

00:29:38.880 Steve Bannon Airport, maybe they would change that back. But most of these things I think will be very

00:29:44.120 difficult to change back because the energy in this country is not with this frog boiling in the water,

00:29:50.840 move towards a fetishizing race and gender. But the energy is for people who say,

00:29:56.880 thank goodness for the change and the change happening quickly. The changes in the other

00:30:01.900 direction happen very slowly. But they change dramatically over time. President Trump and

00:30:07.840 the cultural and social forces that are pushing back are happening quite quickly. And I think

00:30:13.160 they're going to they're going to move as things things tend to move quickly, tend to move hard

00:30:17.980 and fast. And I think it's gonna be very difficult for a Democrat, not just politically,

00:30:21.520 but practically to try to put these things back.

00:30:24.880 They they're the Republicans, and frankly, the more centrist Democrats who objected to this stuff

00:30:29.780 when it was overwhelming us. They were silent about those objections because they were scared.

00:30:35.700 Not only has that fright been eliminated, they're emboldened, you know, they voted for Trump,

00:30:42.060 he's emboldened all of them. They're ready for this war. They now have learned that they're in the

00:30:46.940 majority and that this was a temporary insanity that we went through and that it has to be stopped

00:30:53.040 because it's actually extremely dangerous. It's like the whole everything's turned, you know,

00:30:56.380 in the past five years and dramatic. So I agree with you. It will not be brought back

00:31:00.480 because the popular will of the people will not allow it. Now, I opened the show talking about Elon

00:31:05.960 on with Brett Baer and some members of the Doge team last night. And.

00:31:11.340 You know, I did wonder in watching it, why didn't we see this earlier? These guys are amazing.

00:31:19.460 Like this is exactly we should all be on our hands and knees at night, thanking God that men and I

00:31:26.220 presume there are women, too. They weren't on the set last night are willing to take time off from 0.95

00:31:32.060 their real jobs and real lives and do this for us. They were all really just public servants.

00:31:38.440 Go ahead, Sean. But to your point, the caliber of these people,

00:31:42.000 when he was talking about what Brett Baer was telling him. So you co-founded Airbnb. You're

00:31:47.180 the CFO of Morgan Stanley. These the credentials of these people. We talked about this a little

00:31:52.740 on the morning meeting this morning that it was the illumination of of just the it wasn't like,

00:31:58.080 you know, finding some buried treasure. The guy was like, yeah, we found out that the

00:32:02.380 Department of HHS has 40 CFOs, 40 CFOs, 40 CIOs, chief information officer. There are four point

00:32:10.180 three, four point six million government credit cards and two point one million employees.

00:32:15.940 There's obvious things that are like that doesn't make sense. That doesn't compute.

00:32:20.080 Eight thousand American federal workers can retire in a given month because that's all the system can

00:32:26.600 handle because it has to take a manila envelope going down a mine, a mine. That's how many envelopes

00:32:33.980 can go down in a month. That's insane. And the idea that they were talking about utilizing common

00:32:40.940 sense technology reforms, efficiencies to allow the government to run better. And even Elon, when it

00:32:49.160 came to Social Security, made it very clear that what 40 percent of the people who call the Social

00:32:55.680 Security hotlines were fraudsters trying to steal the money of American retirees. And what they're

00:33:03.360 trying to do is put processes in place to protect the American consumer from fraud. It's something that

00:33:10.640 I agree with you. I was like, where has this been? I wanted to hear this for the last 70 days. And I

00:33:16.100 finally, I was excited. I was fired up. I hope they do more because I think that the more people hear

00:33:23.360 about not only what's really goes on in government, but how it's being corrected, the more support Doge

00:33:29.460 and Elon will get. Here's just a little bit. You mentioned this in your last answer of Joe

00:33:36.420 Jebbia, the Airbnb co-founder and Doge digital retirement project guy. Here he is.

00:33:42.300 Now picture this. This giant cave has 22,000 filing cabinets stacked 10 high to house 400 million

00:33:52.040 pieces of paper. It's a process that started in the 1950s and largely hasn't changed in the last 70

00:33:58.300 years. And so as he dug into it, we found retirement cases that had so much paper, they had to fit it on

00:34:04.620 a shipping pallet. So the process takes many months and we're going to make it just many days.

00:34:11.060 Will it be digitized or how? Absolutely. So this will be an online digital process that

00:34:15.060 will take just a few days at most. And I really think, you know, it's an injustice to civil servants

00:34:21.420 who are subjected to these processes that are older than the age of half the people watching your show

00:34:27.140 tonight. So we really believe that the government can have an Apple store like experience, beautifully

00:34:34.140 designed, great user experience, modern systems.

00:34:36.880 He he said that there were actually at the point where we have to train federal employees on how to retire.

00:34:46.020 They have to go through a training training. It's so embarrassing.

00:34:53.240 It is embarrassing. You know, Mark, I like what Americans sit at home is going to have any reaction to that

00:34:59.400 other than what? It's great to have private sector people in in the government who, you know, my favorite

00:35:08.020 moments was when Brett was asking them their motivation for doing it. And one of them said he's got four kids

00:35:12.520 and he doesn't want the country to decline for his kids. They're an impressive group. And, you know,

00:35:20.040 even Democrats, most Democrats will say, yeah, there's inefficiencies, the federal government.

00:35:24.140 But this is an attempt to to get rid of them. You know, we talk about waste, fraud and abuse.

00:35:31.360 This is, you know, you could call it waste, but it's really just inefficiency.

00:35:34.960 And it's really not having the will to use the ingenuity of the private sector up until now to try to change these things.

00:35:41.940 Al Gore talked about reinventing government, but that was in the dawn of the digital age.

00:35:46.440 There's so much more that can be done now using digital stuff. And this is, again, as Sean said a couple of times,

00:35:53.200 this is such an impressive group from the private sector. I just hope that they're adhering to guidelines

00:35:57.820 and I just hope that they don't get shackled. They do need to move fast for all the reasons that this plan was launched.

00:36:04.500 In my head, like the way they were being described by the media, it was like I pictured like these dope,

00:36:09.720 smoking, hacky sack, kicking, beanie wearing foggy shirts, put them in, right.

00:36:16.440 Put them in tie dye shirts.

00:36:18.180 Did I see these guys?

00:36:19.360 Were they wearing Crocs or, or, or Birkenstocks in your, in your mind? I couldn't get sandals.

00:36:25.100 I never got down below the ankle in picturing them, but I definitely, I could smell the aroma.

00:36:30.460 I had a perceived smell. This is, they're not that at all. These are actually really accomplished,

00:36:35.180 bad-ass professional guys who are super articulate on top of their game. Now I'm sure they sent their

00:36:41.160 best for the Brett Baer interview. Uh, there may be guys who better match my description,

00:36:46.080 but you know, chief among them was Elon with some very interesting facts of his own. Here's one,

00:36:53.360 uh, here that is somebody, somebody mentioned, but it's not for,

00:36:58.520 uh, the sheer amount of waste and fraud in the government. It is astonishing. It's mind blowing.

00:37:04.400 Uh, just, uh, we routinely encounter wastes of, uh, a billion dollars or more casually.

00:37:13.400 Um, you know, for example, like the, the, the, the, the simple, the simple survey, uh, that was,

00:37:17.740 uh, uh, uh, literally a 10 question survey that you could do with survey monkey cost about $10,000,

00:37:23.100 uh, was, uh, uh, the government was being charged almost a billion dollars for that for just the

00:37:28.760 survey, a billion dollars for, for a simple online survey. Do you like the national park?

00:37:32.480 And then there appeared to be no feedback loop for what would be done with that survey. So the

00:37:36.440 survey would just go into nothing. It was like, you're saying

00:37:38.180 Casually. And you know what, the, what's so devastating about that, Sean is, you know,

00:37:44.580 it's true. I know I've been in the military for 26 years in and out of government. I mean,

00:37:50.840 it's finally good hearing someone articulate, uh, what, what I've known to be the case for,

00:37:55.980 for decades. Yeah. And just be honest about it. That's like the social security thing.

00:38:01.020 Everybody can understand that too. Why are we sending social security checks to people who

00:38:05.240 appear to be 120 or an infant, which is what Elon was saying. He was like, there people are,

00:38:13.040 we're sending checks to infants. And he was explaining exactly how they do the fraud.

00:38:18.900 Someone has a baby and they steal their own child's social security number and they use it to get 0.63

00:38:25.360 some sort of payout from the federal government. And they ruin that child's credit because they just

00:38:29.860 don't give a damn. Here is Steve Davis, who was called the CEO of Doge though. He didn't seem

00:38:36.220 totally comfortable with that label. Um, speaking to some of that issue in SOT6.

00:38:42.100 Now the, um, the amount of issues that were the social security system are enormous. As an example,

00:38:47.880 there are over 15 million people that are over the age of 120 that are marked as alive

00:38:54.500 in the social security system. And that's an accurate figure. Yes. Correct. 15 million. Correct.

00:38:59.660 This has been something that's been identified as a problem. Again, preexisting problems since 2008,

00:39:04.860 at least from an IG report. So there were some great people working at the social security

00:39:10.140 administration, social security administration that found this 2008 and nothing was done.

00:39:15.060 And so 15 to 20 million social security numbers that were clearly fraudulent, um,

00:39:19.240 were floating around, um, that can be used to only for bad intentions. There'd be no way to use those

00:39:24.280 for good intentions. And so what, one of the things the Doge team is doing is carefully and very

00:39:29.400 methodically looking at those and making sure that any fraudulent ones are eliminated.

00:39:34.620 Well, that is shocking, but also not. Um, and this, here's my question. I'm going to play one more

00:39:39.880 SOT on social security, Dan, but this question is coming to you on how,

00:39:42.800 how are the Democrats going to object to this? Everybody knows what a money suck social security

00:39:49.080 is along with Medicare slash Medicaid. We all know that we all know we're not going to make

00:39:52.920 a lot of progress, if any, on our national debt, unless we get honest about what's happening there.

00:39:57.520 Nobody wants us to touch the retirement age. We get it. It's political poison, but this stuff,

00:40:03.700 this stuff we can do, we can do, but the Democrats are saying no, no to Doge, no to Elon. He's evil.

00:40:10.780 Here's the second soundbite on social security with a guy named Aram Mogadassi. He's a Doge engineer.

00:40:18.620 I'll say the two improvements that we're trying to make to social security are, um, helping people

00:40:24.160 that legitimately get benefits, protect them from fraud, um, that they experience every day on a

00:40:29.900 routine basis and, uh, also make the experience better. Um, and I'll give you one example is at

00:40:37.140 social security. Um, one of the first things we learned is that they get phone calls every day

00:40:41.780 of people trying to change direct deposit information. So when you want to change your

00:40:46.080 bank account, you can call social security. Um, we learned 40% of the phone calls that they get are

00:40:51.840 from fraudsters. 40%. That's right. Almost half. Yes. And they steal people's social security is what

00:40:59.380 happens is they call in, they say, uh, they claim to be, uh, a retiree. Um, then they, they, and they

00:41:06.640 convince the post, the social security person on the phone to change the, where the, where the money's

00:41:11.020 flowing. Uh, it, it actually goes to some fraudster. In 67 days, they figured all of this out, Dan,

00:41:18.520 why would the Democrats stand in the way of these fixes? So I think the important thing for the party

00:41:23.740 is they need to split what is common sense from what is questionable. I think what they're talking

00:41:29.340 about here, and I actually saw this morning too, they're talking about trying to upgrade the social

00:41:33.380 security software and computer systems, which are literally decades old just because they haven't

00:41:38.960 received the funding. They want to migrate it to a new platform where they're trying to do stuff like

00:41:43.800 stop fraud. I ran government relations for H and our block, and I know the, a lot about the IRS and

00:41:49.320 fraud. And they're absolutely right. It's the Russian mob. It's all sorts of people who try to 1.00

00:41:54.940 steal your social security file returns, you know, falsely before you do and get your refund. And by the

00:42:01.420 time you realize what happened, it's too late where they're trying to do that. We should say that is

00:42:08.100 good. It will also give us credibility with the public for when we say timeout, this might be

00:42:13.760 objectionable. And one of those things is I know we all say, okay, cutting phone service

00:42:19.200 and making you have to come in, make sense to try to deal with fraud. Sure. If I live in New York

00:42:24.780 city, I can walk down to the social security administration or take the subway or a bus

00:42:28.680 in lots of parts of this country. It is hundreds of miles to reach it. And the elderly it's hard.

00:42:35.620 Some of them don't drive. They have a medical issues that makes movement challenging. And so when

00:42:41.780 Democrats say, wait a second, you need to offer those telephone services. People need, there has to be a

00:42:47.560 way for them to verify and get through. That is where I think the public will say, yeah, okay.

00:42:52.700 All right. But if all we do is always scream no and everything, it's a huge problem. And I actually

00:42:59.220 thought, you know, look, we're making some headway. We Democrats with Elon's favorabilities coming down.

00:43:04.700 But to your point, Megan, those were real people. They were uncomfortable. They looked anxious. There's

00:43:10.200 empathy and sympathy as they talked because they're just regular real people trying to help.

00:43:14.760 And that as Democrats, you know, is a, is something that we need to recognize.

00:43:19.740 I mean, it's the same party that didn't stand for the little boy who got the badge and became the

00:43:23.800 honorary secret service mate. So I don't think they're going to feel for the, for the Doge agents,

00:43:28.640 but here's why I think Mark, they're not going to give an inch on Doge or Elon. NBC news just did a

00:43:37.180 focus group of black men who backed Trump and approve of his presidency and asked how they're

00:43:45.280 feeling. And that focus group showed that nearly all of them, 10 of the 12 still are with Trump and

00:43:53.120 staunchly. The only concern that some of them raised, uh, was about Doge. They said, I'm trying to get my

00:44:02.700 numbers. They say 10 of the 12 said they approved of Trump's early tenure during his second presidency,

00:44:08.000 but only five said they approved of Doge's actions. Only five said they approved three said

00:44:15.440 they disapproved and the rest of the group, they weren't sure. So if I'm a Democrat who really just

00:44:21.580 wants to win back power, I see something I can exploit here. And I'm not sure I want to do anything

00:44:28.580 to give Doge credit for anything, even if it would be good for the country. Well, except as Dan said,

00:44:34.500 they need to have credibility. I think we, you know, we've all wondered why, what we saw last

00:44:39.100 night, those very articulate spokespeople for this effort were not out sooner. I'd say there are two

00:44:44.900 other things that they've done to hurt their cause and, and made it easier for Democrats to rally public

00:44:50.320 opinion around some things. Number one, they've not totally been truthful and accurate as Musk has

00:44:56.020 acknowledged about what's being saved about certain programs are using as examples. And they've not

00:45:04.100 quantified it or qualified it accurately. And that's allowed the press, which is hostile to Doge

00:45:07.880 and those Democrats who want to be against it, to be against it. But the other thing I think they

00:45:13.460 haven't done is they haven't told the stories. They haven't humanized it. We saw humanization last

00:45:18.880 night with these folks, but to say, here's, there's just a cert people are having their social

00:45:23.980 security stolen. This has to be on a human level because cuts while popular in the abstract,

00:45:29.080 when you start to cut specific programs, you run into trouble. I don't think the democratic party

00:45:33.260 has a plan right now. They're all over the map about how to deal with this, but their job of

00:45:38.000 opposing it would be a lot more challenging. If the administration talked about this in a way

00:45:42.740 that was easier to understand why it's a good thing, not just in the abstract, but with some real

00:45:47.380 specifics that can be emotionally, emotionally told in a way that involves great storytelling.

00:45:53.180 I don't know why they haven't done it. Yeah. Why don't we see the guy who says,

00:45:57.220 I tried to retire and it took me six months to, I wanted to retire and one month took me six months

00:46:01.460 to just get out because of the paperwork. We haven't seen those people all over TV.

00:46:06.340 We, we had these guys getting closer and closer to real person stories where you were like,

00:46:12.120 oh yeah, oh God, that would be really annoying. Oh, that sounds so dumb.

00:46:15.120 Um, here's one, Anthony Armstrong, uh, Doge OPM. What does that stand for? Operating

00:46:22.040 Office of Personnel Management. Office of Personnel. Why aren't they all, I guess he's over there in

00:46:26.840 particular. Um, anyway, he's over there at the group that, that takes care of all your paperwork

00:46:32.020 if you're a federal government employee. And here's what he said. Sade.

00:46:34.540 A good example of overstaffing would be the IRS has got 1400 people who are dedicated to provisioning

00:46:42.860 laptops and cell phones. So if you join the IRS, you get a laptop and a cell phone, you're provisioned.

00:46:47.860 So if each of those IRS officers or employees provisioned two employees per day, you could

00:46:55.200 provision the entire IRS in a little more than a month. So 12 times a year, you can reprovision.

00:47:00.920 Why would you have 1400 people whose only job it is to give out a laptop and a phone?

00:47:04.500 Right. The whole IRS could be handled once a month. So that doesn't, that doesn't make any sense.

00:47:09.640 And president Trump's been very clear. It's scalpel, not hatchet. And that's the way

00:47:13.000 it's, it's getting done. I mean, that sounds so right. Sean, you've worked for the federal

00:47:18.480 government. That sounds so right that you'd have to go through that number of people just to,

00:47:23.780 whose only job is to do two things, give you a laptop and give you a phone, which literally

00:47:28.660 should take, even if you consider setting up your password and getting you registered on it

00:47:33.540 at most a half an hour, how does somebody, how do we have 1400 of those in the IRS alone?

00:47:40.560 Yeah. Well, the scary part is, is that they're not alone. There's probably 1400 people who

00:47:45.020 do various other tasks. And as a guy who look, I'm all about tech support. I either I've learned

00:47:51.260 that you just power things on and off and that's, that's the extent of my tech support. So I get it.

00:47:56.480 I appreciate that and I welcome it, but I think 1400 is a bit excessive. And unfortunately it's

00:48:00.740 not, you know, like I said, you go to HHS and they talk about having 40 chief information officers,

00:48:06.760 40. I mean, generally when you're the chief, there's only one, but I, it just shows you the

00:48:13.060 duplicity that exists. Um, I think to your point, these individuals themselves did the, the, the effort,

00:48:21.160 a huge bonus by going out the examples they gave. And then if we can add in the human element,

00:48:26.360 the number of people who, you know, took a month to retire or who couldn't get a benefit

00:48:32.260 or who had their money stolen, we're missing that third of the, of the piece. I was thinking about

00:48:38.260 this, as you were saying a moment ago, you know, the, the, the young gentleman that, that was so cool,

00:48:42.740 um, during the state of the union, president Trump, I think did better than any previous president

00:48:47.440 highlighting his policies through those individuals in the gallery. I think they almost need to embark

00:48:52.620 on a very similar policy or a similar effort now, which is to go highlight individuals who've had

00:48:57.680 struggles with the federal government, uh, who haven't been able to retire, who were taken

00:49:01.500 advantage of who worked in the government, but there was massive duplicity or et cetera, and start to

00:49:06.680 literally put faces to these problems, uh, because they did. And, and by the way, continue to roll out

00:49:13.240 members of Doge, uh, who are finding these things, not just the dollar amount in the programs,

00:49:18.560 but the overall crisis that exists, because that's not to Mark's point though. Those aren't,

00:49:23.760 it's not waste or fraud. The fact that you can't retire, you know, that you can only retire 80,000

00:49:29.080 people. It just doesn't make sense in the military. We went to medical record, electronic medical records,

00:49:34.420 because literally you would have to carry your bulky medical record around with you, wherever you went

00:49:40.480 from assignment to assignment, station to station. And that's how we handle it for until some genius

00:49:45.620 realized, wow, we could just digitize this like everyone else. And it has made life a lot easier,

00:49:51.020 right? What, if we can start doing that within the federal government, it's a win-win for the

00:49:55.640 government. It saves us money. It saves us time. It cuts down on bureaucracy. In fact, I'm sure as one

00:50:01.160 of those gentlemen alluded to the, the federal workers themselves would probably like to go that route,

00:50:07.100 as opposed to climbing up 10 file cabinets high to grab somebody's record from 1979.

00:50:13.440 So we'll have to get training on how to retire, how to retire. It's the least amount of time you

00:50:19.040 want to, you want to take on new training. Personally, I think they should just move all

00:50:22.580 these records onto signal could make everybody's life easier. Nothing more secure, right? I'd get at,

00:50:29.700 get at it in. We'd all get at it in. The best people use it. All right, stand by guys. I'll be

00:50:36.380 right back. And I want to play you an extraordinary exchange with Elon. Let's talk about that car you

00:50:41.060 own, but don't use the one you're paying to keep registered and insured. It's just sitting out there

00:50:46.560 taking up space out front and it's not doing anybody any good. You have a choice. You can give

00:50:53.360 cars for kids. That's cars with a K a call and have them take care of it for you. Just give them the

00:50:59.200 info and they will come to you as soon as the next day and take that car off your hands at no cost to

00:51:04.680 you. Even better, they will turn that car into funds to help children. So visit cars with a K

00:51:11.360 for kids.org slash MK that's cars with a K and then the number four to donate or just call cars for kids

00:51:18.780 directly at 1-877-CARS-4-KIDS and they will get that car picked up quickly. Plus you can get a tax

00:51:26.420 deduction and a vacation voucher. These guys have been around for 30 years. You've seen the ads,

00:51:31.780 right? They've done this over a million times. Call now or head on over to cars, K-A-R-S, the numeral

00:51:38.780 four and then kids.org slash MK right now to get this done. Cars for kids.org slash MK. That's cars with a K.

00:51:47.180 Are you surprised at some of the legal efforts and some of the judges that have weighed in? There's

00:51:54.720 about eight or 10 now of these cases that are at least temporary holds. They're being challenged by

00:52:00.800 the DOJ. Are you surprised by that pushback? Well, the D.C. circuit is notorious for having

00:52:08.320 a very far left bias. And when you look at the people close to some of these judges,

00:52:15.820 who are, where are they working? Are they working at these NGOs? Oh, they're getting them. They're

00:52:20.540 the ones getting this money. Does that seem like a system that lacks corruption? It sounds like

00:52:25.460 corruption to me. Mm-hmm. I mean, not said was one of the judges he's thinking about is almost

00:52:32.140 certainly Judge Boesberg, who is the one behind the blocking of Trump's effort to deport Venezuelan

00:52:38.760 suspected gang members to El Salvador. Back with me now, my panel, Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer,

00:52:44.740 and Dan Turrentine of Two Way. Okay. I did look up the SCOTUS protocol for that appeal,

00:52:52.620 and here's how it's going to go down. So just for those who weren't with us at the top of the hour,

00:52:57.140 the Trump administration has appealed the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling against him.

00:53:02.140 On his effort to use the Alien Enemies Act to deport suspected Venezuelan gang members out of

00:53:08.300 the United States and place them in an El Salvadorian prison, the trial court judge was Judge

00:53:13.460 Boesberg, an Obama appointee, originally put on the bench by W many years ago, but elevated to the

00:53:18.640 federal bench by Obama. He has had a leftward bent, no question. And he's got a wife and a daughter

00:53:24.460 who own or work in and run, respectively, an abortion clinic, and reportedly the daughter

00:53:29.680 with this NGO organization that helps illegals and gang members. So yeah, I think that's what

00:53:36.700 Elon's suggesting is maybe going on there. And now the Trump administration, just before he came to

00:53:44.380 air, has appealed their loss on the temporary restraining order Boesberg put against them to

00:53:50.520 the U.S. Supreme Court just before we came to air. They want the high court to lift that temporary

00:53:55.700 restraining order so they can continue deporting these Venezuelan illegals and shipping them off 1.00

00:54:01.300 to El Salvador during the pendency of the litigation. And I was unclear when we started

00:54:06.800 whether Justice Roberts could do this chief justice alone. And I was right. He can do it alone.

00:54:13.040 He's the chief justice of the United States. And each justice on the court has a region of the

00:54:19.760 country for which he or she is responsible. And as the chief justice, he oversees the D.C. region,

00:54:26.720 which is where this case is coming out of because all these federal government agencies are in

00:54:30.700 D.C. Anyway, that's where it is. And so John Roberts, if he wants to, can grant the relief himself.

00:54:39.520 He could, with the stroke of his pen, lift the TRO and say, have at it, Trump. And then the case would

00:54:45.920 go back down to Judge Bozberg for litigation on the merits. You know, they would hash it out. It's

00:54:50.480 not a final adjudication, but it is on the TRO. It's in a form of relief that he could grant to

00:54:57.100 Trump. Or he could say, I'll give you an expedited briefing schedule in front of the United States

00:55:03.960 Supreme Court at large. And so we'll keep the pedal down, but we'll let all nine of us decide

00:55:10.460 whether you can do this. Or he could just deny it and say, I'm not dealing with any of this yet

00:55:16.120 and kick it back down, which would be a loss for Trump. So Trump could win with the stroke of a

00:55:20.300 Robert's pen. He could lose with a stroke of a Robert's pen, or he could get a hearing in front

00:55:24.800 of the all nine justices. And hopefully we'll find out soon which one of those it's going to be.

00:55:30.920 Okay. Elon Musk sat across from me in September at the All In Summit and said one of the main reasons

00:55:38.180 he wanted Donald Trump elected and was willing to serve and was talking about forming Doge and

00:55:43.880 doing the, finding the efficiencies was his experience as really a rocket scientist, right?

00:55:49.460 As a rockets guy and talked about how it takes longer to get the permission slip, in his words,

00:55:55.480 to launch a rocket than it does to build the rocket and how insane it is and how, you know, you,

00:56:02.440 you get fined $40,000 for dumping potable water, like water that one could drink. You dump it out

00:56:11.420 of the spaceship when you got back and the government would swoop in and fine you for it. You say, well,

00:56:16.860 what do you mean? It's, it's potable water. Why is, why am I getting fined? That cut like comes out of

00:56:21.000 the sky. Why, why if God drops it, is there no fine? But, but if I drop it, I'm getting fined. Well,

00:56:27.560 that's just the rules. I said, that's the way, well, what do you mean? Like, I'm trying to get

00:56:31.020 us to Mars. Why are you hassling me this way? Like I could, my daughter could come by with a little

00:56:36.260 garden, uh, pitcher and do the same thing. You're going to find her 40,000. This is what he was

00:56:42.000 dealing with. And he had it up to his eyeballs, which is why he's now doing all of this, the red 0.99

00:56:47.460 tape. And for those out there thinking it may just be a Republican issue, think again, because Ezra Klein

00:56:53.580 of the New York times, who's on this book tour, making a bunch of stops swung on by John Stewart's

00:57:00.640 podcast, I guess. I don't, I don't follow John Stewart at all. And it makes me a very happy

00:57:05.520 person, but there was the following exchange. Watch step four has to review and approve and award

00:57:14.320 again, planning grants, not broadband grants, planning grants. Step eight is states must submit an

00:57:21.780 initial proposal, an initial proposal to the NTIA. Then is that the result of their $5 million

00:57:30.380 planning fund? I assume, but then what was the five-year plan? And what the fuck did they apply

00:57:36.320 for? What was their nofo? Like if the five-year action plan isn't the initial proposal, then what's

00:57:42.980 the five-year action plan? Forget nofo, mofo. Step 10, states must publish their own map and allow

00:57:49.500 internal challenges to their own map. Wait, who's challenging it within the state?

00:57:54.740 Well, you know, organized interest groups, environmental groups, like I don't know who

00:57:58.100 specifically, but any, literally anybody. This is, I want to say something because it's very important

00:58:02.480 I say this. This is the Biden administration's process for its own bill. They wanted this to

00:58:08.280 happen. This is how liberal government works now. This is a bill passed by Democrats with a regulatory

00:58:15.180 structure written by Democratic administration. Step 12, states must run a competitive sub-granting

00:58:23.140 process. Oh my fucking God. At step 12, by after all this has been done, I'm speechless.

00:58:31.640 This is the $42 billion expansion of broadband internet service under Joe Biden, which has yet to connect a

00:58:39.220 single household. Ezra Klein, they're detailing how in the end, only three of the 56 jurisdictions that

00:58:45.160 did apply for it actually finished the process by the end of 2024. I mean, this is just, this is

00:58:52.020 devastating. And you know why, you know why, I mean, you guys tell me, I'll let any of you take it.

00:58:56.680 This is why I think Trump's approval ratings are at a historic high for him and why the direction of

00:59:03.900 the country numbers are so positive for him is because everyone knows this. They didn't apply for

00:59:10.460 broadband broadband internet expansion, but they've had to deal with the federal government when their

00:59:16.740 tax refund didn't come. It's a nightmare when they wanted to go on Medicare Advantage and like

00:59:23.960 upgrade that. Like when they, when anything went wrong with their federal government paperwork,

00:59:27.800 they had to correct it. We've all been there calling or dealing with the federal government on

00:59:32.780 any of this stuff. Nevermind like your taxes. It's a nightmare. So what Elon's saying,

00:59:38.440 the doge guys are saying, and Ezra's saying it all has the ring of truth. And I do think like,

00:59:44.480 while Elon's getting battered and bruised, the people are generally going to back this. Maybe

00:59:49.660 they, they feel a little bad about the layoffs of the federal employees. Uh, maybe they just don't

00:59:53.760 really like Elon cause he's brash, but they like the cleanup in aisle seven. Who would like to take

00:59:58.840 that? Well, it's even worse than that. Right. So that just laid out the stupid process and the amount

01:00:03.700 of money we wasted on broadband. And people look at that and say, I had my own experience with like

01:00:08.860 some Titsi fly in the backyard when they wouldn't let me put a shed up. But then they also look and 1.00

01:00:12.840 go, wait a second. Isn't there a thing called Starlink that you could get for like eight bucks

01:00:17.660 that you don't even need to do all that. That right. I mean, it's, it's worse than even that

01:00:23.760 example that Ezra Klein was going through. That's, that's just, if you wanted to, you know,

01:00:27.680 what it takes to lay down broadband and do this, but then you go, okay, that's stupid enough as it is,

01:00:31.840 but there's actually an alternative that's costs like no money. And that's linking up to Starlink,

01:00:38.660 getting you internet, not having to lay down all that. The, this, the mindlessness of everything

01:00:43.980 that the federal government touches is unbelievable. And you're right. Most people get it and they just

01:00:50.400 need to have it validated, uh, in terms of the absurdity. Explain to them. Yes. All right. So,

01:00:56.600 uh, I tease this before we took the break, we got into a bit of why Elon is disliked by some,

01:01:05.420 you know, he's not afraid to throw a barb on X, which he owns. You know, he's not,

01:01:11.520 he doesn't sound like Supreme court justice, John Roberts. He does not sound like he doesn't speak

01:01:17.640 the same way he does. And, um, one of the things he did was to call Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona,

01:01:23.860 a Democrat who's married to Gabby Giffords. And he's the brother of Scott Kelly, both of whom are

01:01:29.320 astronauts. Scott's amazing. By the way, came on my show at NBC and told us all about how he was a

01:01:34.180 straight C student, straight C, right? Isn't that your first question? Did you get all A's you crushed

01:01:39.840 physics? You know, you were a math whiz and a science. No, he was like, I was listless. I had no

01:01:44.760 direction. And I was a terrible student. If you became an astronaut, that's brother, Scott,

01:01:49.200 brother, Mark, also an astronaut and now a Democrat Senator. Elon called him a traitor

01:01:54.780 in the context of Ukraine. And Brett asked him about it and listen to this answer.

01:02:02.640 We should have empathy for the thousands of people that are dying every day in trenches

01:02:06.720 for no movement in the, in the lines. So the borders remain the same for the past two years.

01:02:12.900 Thousands of people have died every week for nothing. For what? And I, I take great, great

01:02:23.520 offense at those who, those who put the appearance of goodness over the reality of it. Those who

01:02:34.480 virtue signal and say, oh, we can't give into Russia, but have no solution to stopping thousands 0.98

01:02:40.360 of kids dying every day. I have contempt for such people. I don't want to make that clear.

01:02:44.620 Yeah. So you're optimistic because they're virtue signaling and their, their lack of a solution

01:02:50.960 means that kids don't have a father. It means that parents lost a son for what?

01:03:01.340 Nothing.

01:03:01.980 Pretty powerful. Mark Kelly came in his crosshairs because he posted something on X about having

01:03:09.780 just returned from Ukraine and how, in his view, it was very important that we stand by Ukraine. He

01:03:13.600 wrote, um, everyone wants the war to end, but any agreement has to protect Ukraine security. Can't

01:03:18.380 be a giveaway to Putin and went on from there. Um, I here again, I have to say, Dan, I think the

01:03:25.460 American public is with Elon. I think the American public, while they have nothing but empathy in

01:03:29.700 general for Ukraine, they realize where we are, that this thing needs to end and that we can't

01:03:35.080 keep throwing good money after bad as Americans. Well, I think there's two things here. I think 0.87

01:03:41.340 generally speaking, president Trump ran on trying to end the war in Ukraine. And I think you're right,

01:03:46.000 even within the democratic party and the Bernie Sanders kind of base, there is a desire to spend,

01:03:51.200 but you know, focus and spend money on problems at home, not necessarily abroad. Although aspirationally,

01:03:56.960 as you say, people would like Ukraine to be protected. I think where Musk gets in trouble

01:04:01.520 is when he makes statements like that. People died because Russia tried to invade Ukraine and

01:04:07.340 they're trying to defend their homeland. Right? So I, I get why they dug trenches and they're doing

01:04:13.400 everything they can to resist a country that's trying to take it over. I think when Musk does stuff

01:04:18.480 like in the interview, say, this is a revolution, we're trying to revolutionize things.

01:04:23.960 Yeah. The public doesn't necessarily love that language. I mean, this goes to like Joe Biden

01:04:28.980 trying to suddenly become FDR, right? That's not what a lot of people signed up for in 2020.

01:04:34.840 And so I think Musk, to your point is brash. I would never bet against him as a businessman.

01:04:40.720 He's unbelievably successful to state the obvious, but he's rough around the edges. And I think as he

01:04:46.540 wades more into politics, whether it's trolling people on X or kind of forcefully interjecting into

01:04:51.920 politics, you get the good, but you also get bad that I think, you know, you have to be willing

01:04:57.040 to digest, but I think his numbers are coming down. He is the wealthiest man in the world with

01:05:02.960 conflicts, you know, from here to kingdom come. I'm not saying I don't care about that.

01:05:08.060 Well, they, they, I, I actually think they do a little bit. George Soros.

01:05:12.820 Well, that's it. Americans are inherently distrustful of very wealthy people who start

01:05:17.780 getting involved in government. And to your point, Democrats who have had a lot of them in our

01:05:21.660 corner and we loved it. It was damage was done to us on George Soros and other things. So I, I,

01:05:28.000 I think again, it's good and bad with Elon. I want to get to what Elon's doing in Wisconsin,

01:05:33.600 because this is an important election that's coming on Tuesday and you guys are the people

01:05:37.900 to ask about it. But before we go to the special elections and what's happening in Wisconsin with

01:05:41.960 this judicial election, can we spend a minute on Hillary Clinton? Hillary Clinton decided to drop 1.00

01:05:52.420 an op-ed in the New York times today. Uh, that's entitled how much dumber will this get? And she

01:06:00.960 uses signal gate and the messaging by Pete Hegseth and Mike walls and JD Vance and Tulsi and others on

01:06:07.860 there as the jumping off point to talk about how dumb the Trump administration is. Uh, some

01:06:13.840 highlights, uh, she calls the Trump administration, hypocritical, dangerous, and dumb over this story.

01:06:18.980 It's not the hypocrisy that bothers me. It's the stupidity. We're all shocked, shocked that

01:06:24.380 president Trump and his team don't actually care about protecting classified information or federal

01:06:29.720 record retention laws. I mean, this is so rich given her history, but we knew that already. This is

01:06:36.160 her just trying to say like, I did nothing wrong. And all my whole controversy was made up. No one

01:06:40.440 actually cares about any of that because they're not blaming Trump harder. And Trump allowed this

01:06:45.040 in the first place, which much what's much worse is that top Trump administration officials put our

01:06:51.080 troops in jeopardy by sharing military plans on a commercial messaging app and unwittingly invited a

01:06:56.380 journalist into the chat. That's dangerous. And it's just dumb. Okay. I mean, fine. I really think

01:07:04.820 Hillary Clinton should have sat this one out given she's in no position to throw stones. She did this 1.00

01:07:10.460 willingly. She had her homebrew server for years, an intentional choice. Actually, we do need to stop

01:07:17.400 and take that one for on for a minute, like for years and intentional choice that she's, she's trying

01:07:23.300 to be like, no one really gave a shit about that. This is far worse. This unintentional mistake that was

01:07:29.840 done by adding in the journalist. And yes, they, obviously they intentionally chose signal to have

01:07:35.740 the discussion on, but we've already heard in recent days, Mark, that this was a means of

01:07:40.980 communication used by the Biden administration. I just think she should have had Bill write it.

01:07:46.700 She should have had some friend of hers on team blue, write it someone other than the person with 0.99

01:07:52.920 this brand of problems. Well, in Arkansas, we have a word for it. We call it chutzpah.

01:08:00.260 Look, Dan knows Hillary Clinton better than I do, but you can hear her voice in that thing.

01:08:06.260 There may have been some ghostwriting help, but that's her. And she has the rare honor,

01:08:13.940 along with Kamala Harris, of losing presidential elections to Donald Trump.

01:08:16.920 Trump and she will never get over it. And I understand why you're saying she shouldn't have

01:08:23.280 been to what right when the right it, but it's a pretty good enunciation of the view of tens of

01:08:27.660 millions of people about what's going on. And the Clintons, both Clintons, they just love the

01:08:33.080 national town square. They don't want to be away from it. I will also say that she has not just

01:08:40.840 because she lost to Donald Trump, but because of her worldview, she has a genetic inability to stay

01:08:48.440 off of the stand to criticize him. It's in her craw. She cannot help herself. And I'm surprised

01:08:57.580 that she's been relatively low key in the first 100 days here because she is, I know from talking

01:09:05.540 to her friends, she's very engaged on this in a day-to-day capacity. Here's, here's what really

01:09:12.460 galls me, Sean. She writes that as secretary of state under Obama, she used smart power while Trump

01:09:21.440 is now using dumb power. As secretary of state during the Obama administration, I argued for smart

01:09:27.500 power, integrating the hard power of our military with the soft power of our diplomacy, development

01:09:35.320 assistance, economic might, and cultural influence. None of those tools can do the job

01:09:42.180 alone. Together, they make America a superpower. The Trump approach is dumb power. I believe she's 0.76

01:09:50.580 talking about, among other things, Ukraine, where she was secretary of state when we went over there.

01:09:58.540 And to say we meddled in their election is to understate where we are today as a result of that

01:10:06.480 meddling, in part, for which she takes no responsibility. She just talks about how smart

01:10:11.380 she was and the way she manipulated the world and how dumb Trump is, who's now, again, having to clean up

01:10:17.660 a massive Democrat-fueled, if not made, but at least fueled, mess that's cost countless numbers of lives.

01:10:26.340 Yeah. If she still has that reset button that she handed Sergei Lavrov, maybe she wants to take a

01:10:34.080 do-over on this op-ed and get a reset there. I mean, this is the woman who literally brought a

01:10:39.620 reset button to try to make a joke over our relationship with Russia and wants to lecture

01:10:45.960 somebody else about that. I really wouldn't go there. Then to go into the classified issue,

01:10:51.640 after having kept all of your stuff on an unclassified server, wiping it with bleach blit.

01:10:59.540 I just, there are days when you go, you might want to sit this one out. This was one.

01:11:05.980 Wait, one quick follow-up for you on it, Sean. Then she goes on to say,

01:11:09.260 she criticizes him for de-emphasizing the importance of embassies. Oh my God.

01:11:16.700 Why would she touch anything having to do with an embassy or a diplomatic facility after Benghazi?

01:11:26.000 I just, there's a million, I literally feel like she's the one who let someone in her chat that

01:11:30.660 shouldn't have gotten in and wrote that op-ed. Cause that, that, that, that re- I know that's

01:11:36.240 where it's like, I wish she could have at least blamed that on somebody and, and use the reset button,

01:11:40.840 but it's just embarrassing how clueless, uh, and how unselfaware she is of her own vulnerabilities

01:11:48.360 that cause it's not just that when she does stuff like this, it means that Democrats have to answer 1.00

01:11:53.520 for it. We have to talk, we get to talk about it. This is one where you literally say, I'll write it

01:11:58.460 for you and then hand it off to somebody else or just sit this one out or don't send it into the

01:12:03.620 New York times, write it for your, in your journal or put it on your unclassified server and keep it

01:12:08.900 for yourself. I know how she tried to act bored during the Benghazi hearings. Like, Oh my God,

01:12:13.940 I just didn't listen to this nonsense. Well, also her homebrewer server or cell phones were wrong

01:12:19.160 either. Go ahead. But, but for, for, for just one thing we got, we lost in the conversation about

01:12:24.020 signal gate was that the president and his team knocked out all of those Houthi targets. No lives 0.53

01:12:31.460 were lost. Targets were hit. The Obama, uh, or the Biden administration lost 13 lives coming out

01:12:38.440 of Afghanistan. She dealt with Benghazi. If we want to talk about missions and diplomacy and,

01:12:45.220 and actions, I'll take the Trump record over her record over Biden's record any day of the week.

01:12:51.340 Yeah. I mean, we, uh, we lost an ambassador. Like she, now she's just kind of like, Oh,

01:12:56.780 the embassies, there's a de-emphasis. Would you like to have the embassy conversation? Cause we could

01:13:01.420 do that. We could definitely get back into it. You purported to be bored about it. I know you like

01:13:05.640 this thing, Dan, how did you like this thing? So I, I actually loved it. I will fully admit all

01:13:11.980 the things. Yes. All that, all the things that you guys both said and Mark that she may not be

01:13:17.220 necessarily the best messenger for the reasons that you guys all said, but I think she fully

01:13:21.820 believes it. She, she, she's throwing punches. And I think the party has sat around frozen since Trump

01:13:28.820 got elected. They're exhausted. They don't know what to do. They're questioning, you know,

01:13:33.720 all their strategies and tactics the last four or five years against Trump. And I think to Mark's

01:13:38.740 point, she sits there and she's, I mean, Hillary Clinton is if nothing else, one tough SOB. And I 1.00

01:13:44.880 think she's just like, gosh, darn it. We need to stand up and start saying stuff and I'll do it. 0.98

01:13:49.680 And I look, I give her credit. I mean, she knows exactly what we're saying are all the words about

01:13:54.960 her. And she's not going to be our candidate in 2028, but she is trying to give some, some steel 0.98

01:14:01.240 to the spine of Democrats to just say common sense, as we see it stuff and get in the game

01:14:08.000 and start trying to go at him instead of just sitting around in the fetal position, getting

01:14:13.300 rolled. Dan, do you think your donors on the Dem side or, or house rank and file house members

01:14:18.780 were excited to see that op-ed in the New York times this morning? I think they were probably

01:14:24.300 not excited to see the name. They're the reasons that we all just, but I think they probably say,

01:14:29.620 all right, you know, she's getting off the sideline. Like I think, and we may get to this,

01:14:33.120 this has been the best week for Democrats probably since August of last year, kind of optimism going

01:14:39.400 into the convention. There was less coming out of it, but I think they're like, all right,

01:14:43.900 now Hillary's in, in the game. She's one of the few people in the party who's an aircraft 1.00

01:14:48.280 carrier who can take the fight to Trump with clarity. And while the answer is some donors

01:14:55.240 were not happy to see it. I know some were not because it was her, but because as Dan said,

01:15:00.500 they need someone to enunciate the contrast, you know, Bill Clinton could do it. You know,

01:15:05.680 Barack Obama could do it. They won't, they won't because they're former presidents, but she will. 0.99

01:15:10.820 And so it's not an imperfect messenger, obviously, but, but go read it and take the name off of it.

01:15:16.320 And you'll see a lot of stuff. As Dan said, Democrats want to hear somebody saying,

01:15:21.280 Oh, I, I want to ask you a follow-up on signal gate, but you mentioned that they won't do it

01:15:26.080 because they're former presidents. And, you know, there's this, I guess, unwritten rule,

01:15:30.280 or at least used to be about unwritten about, about sitting presidents,

01:15:35.220 former presidents, trashing the sitting president. And this is what Joey Behar said about it on Thursday.

01:15:40.580 They also have a tendency to blame the Biden administration. It's like, move on, that ship

01:15:49.100 has sailed. I never remember in my lifetime, a sitting president, trashing a previous president.

01:15:54.340 I've never heard that before. You never heard, you know, Ronald Reagan didn't do it. They're,

01:15:58.620 they're saying Ronald.

01:16:00.800 And just quickly just found in like a 30 second Google search. Here's Joe Biden as president.

01:16:07.400 What in your view constitutes the primary threat to freedom and democracy at home?

01:16:14.140 Donald Trump. Donald Trump and the maggie Republicans 0.84

01:16:16.860 represented extremism that threatened the very foundations of our republic.

01:16:23.040 Donald Trump has no character. The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters.

01:16:27.780 There's one more thing Trump and his Republican friends want to do.

01:16:31.000 These are the kind of guys you like to smack in the ass.

01:16:33.400 Hey, so yeah, some of that was when Trump had declared, but I could have given you 20 other

01:16:40.680 examples of Trump not running of him. There's no, there's no rule anymore. The only rule is there's

01:16:46.640 no rules. It's just like the same as the end of Greece. When Danny Zuko and Kinnicky were doing the

01:16:52.840 drag race, the rule is there ain't no rules. That's where we are in today's day and age. Back to 0.97

01:16:57.760 Signalgate. Mark, what is happening with the weirdness between what seems to be like Team

01:17:04.780 Hegseth and Team Walsh? Like, are these two guys maneuvering against each other to see like if one

01:17:13.020 of us has to go down, it's going to be you? What's happening?

01:17:17.180 Um, there's certainly people in their orbit who are interested in of, uh, moving the spotlight if

01:17:23.560 necessary to save their friend or their boss. I don't know about between the two of them. I think

01:17:28.780 my, my belief is that everyone on that chain bears some of the responsibility because they should have

01:17:35.500 said, whoa, this conversation shouldn't be here. If there's two primary mistakes involved, errors of

01:17:42.800 judgment beyond the shared error of all of them. One is allowing Jeffrey Goldberg on the chain. Still

01:17:48.500 don't know how it happened, but the national security advisors taking the blame for that. And for many,

01:17:52.900 that's the big sin. And so Walsh is taking the blame there. But the other is the sharing of

01:17:58.140 information that almost everybody I know, including Sean, because we've talked about it on two-way,

01:18:03.240 doesn't believe should have been on Signal. And that falls primarily on the Secretary of Defense. So

01:18:07.820 they both have primary responsibility for one of the things that went wrong.

01:18:12.320 Many people have noticed that the president has been more critical of Walsh than he has

01:18:16.080 of, of Hegseth. And, and there've been some reporting that, that for a couple hours,

01:18:20.880 a couple of days, at least there was some chance the national security advisor would go. So

01:18:25.000 those guys are both ferocious competitors. They both want to stay in their jobs. One of them has

01:18:32.500 got more personal closest to the president, which is Hegseth, but it appears they're both fine for now.

01:18:38.120 And in the last day, the tensions that I've heard between their camps have tamped down appreciably as

01:18:44.220 it looked like they kind of teamed up to, to move the thing off the table.

01:18:47.900 All right, Sean, same question to you. What do you see happening there? Yeah, go ahead.

01:18:52.380 Well, this is my big tell. I said this this morning. It's the manifest to Greenland

01:18:57.760 is important today. More importantly, is the manifest returning from Greenland.

01:19:02.380 So is JD.

01:19:03.640 Right. So pay attention to the manifest on the flight home. Does anybody become the special

01:19:08.640 envoy to Greenland and just get stuck in Nook? You know, I mean, I know she's fine. I think

01:19:15.760 everybody loves her. She bought, she bought a round trip ticket. But, but I do wonder if somebody

01:19:21.700 ends up hanging around the commissary too long there at the, at the base. Um, can you, can you speak to

01:19:27.120 what he was saying about, you know, the biggest question is, and I've heard this too from Trump,

01:19:32.020 how did Jeffrey Goldberg get into Mike Wallace's phone? Something Mike is denying, but we all know

01:19:37.360 he was in there in one way, shape or form, or this mistake could not have happened.

01:19:42.680 Yeah. So there's two things. Not all sins are created equal. And I think in Donald Trump's

01:19:46.300 eyes right now, the sin of allowing Jeffrey Goldberg into that conversation is greater

01:19:50.520 than Pete Hegseth probably going beyond what he should sensitivity wise on that chain. Right.

01:19:56.820 And the mission was a success. So I think Trump looks at it and says, who am I more pissed at?

01:20:02.560 Uh, somebody who allowed this Jeffrey Goldberg guy into the thing who obviously is, uh, someone

01:20:08.980 of dubious character to begin with, uh, and obviously a never suckers and losers. So I, I,

01:20:14.920 I think Megan, the problem that a lot of people are having is, and I said this on the free Goldberg 0.89

01:20:20.900 is in my phone. I had to call and yell at him during the transition because of a horrible,

01:20:24.880 horrible story. Uh, when I met him the first time that his reporter wrote that I called to chastise

01:20:30.740 him about. So like, it's not a, I think if Mike Walt said, Hey, yeah, he was in my phone book

01:20:35.180 because one time he was writing a profile on blah, blah, blah. No one. I mean, I have a lot

01:20:40.580 of people in my phone that good and bad, but because over 30 years you that's, I mean, I actually

01:20:46.720 have Mark Halperin's contact information going back like 18 jobs time that I can do Mark's bio

01:20:52.420 because I don't delete anything, but that's another story. The point is that like, it wasn't,

01:20:58.380 if, if it doesn't Jamison Greer might've been the, who's the U S trade rep is JG. Maybe that's

01:21:03.760 who, why would they be putting a U S trade rep on the, such a conversation? I mean, that's,

01:21:07.880 that's again, that's a whole separate thing. But my point is it's an honest mistake instead of just

01:21:13.360 saying, Hey, look, the guy was in my phone book. Cause I had to yell at him eight years ago or he

01:21:16.960 did. Who cares? Instead of trying to do this, I don't know how he got in my phone book. I think that

01:21:22.500 that's gonna, that could be the bigger problem because he's opened himself up to, I think that

01:21:28.660 we should investigate this. Well, at some point, I don't know enough about tech, but you know,

01:21:33.120 maybe there's some way of finding out the date that a contact ended it entered into your phone

01:21:38.040 book or something like that. I bet there is. You don't want to look like Joy Reed. Like,

01:21:42.400 I don't know who made those anti LGBTQ entries on my blog. I demand an FBI investigation.

01:21:48.240 I agree with you. I don't think it's that controversial to have weird, bad, nasty,

01:21:54.320 anti-Trump reporters or whatever in your context. It's like the nature of all of our industry. You

01:22:00.380 deal with people you can't stand. You deal with people who can't stand you. 0.99

01:22:05.580 It's just change over time. I mean, you might've met someone 15 years ago. I've had people work for

01:22:10.360 me during my six years at the RNC who I haven't spoken to since because of some of the positions

01:22:15.520 they've taken. They're still in my phone book. I don't spend time purging it. I don't think that

01:22:19.800 was the big sin. And so this to me is going to be the rub. If there is something that comes of this,

01:22:26.280 that's going to be a problem because a crisis should die after 48 hours if it's not given

01:22:30.960 oxygen. And I think this thing has lasted way too long. I don't think they should have said it's

01:22:36.420 not war plans. I just don't think that was worth a worthwhile argument. Well, I don't think he

01:22:40.860 should have said Jeffrey Goldberg wasn't in my, I, I just think all of it, they should have said,

01:22:44.820 here's exactly what happened. You just, I mean, the way you put out a scandal is you say,

01:22:48.720 here's everything, here's everything. And we're going to get the defensiveness on the plan though.

01:22:53.740 I will say as somebody who, who understands what those terms mean, right.

01:22:59.140 But the average person isn't really drawing the same distinctions. I mean, I get it. I understand

01:23:05.560 why he felt unfairly attacked, but I just think as a PR, like PR is something I actually know pretty

01:23:11.200 well. He knows war plans and I know PR. But you also, but Megan, here's the thing. You also know

01:23:15.780 the law very well. And if I started pontificating and said, well, they should have just filed this

01:23:20.460 motion inside of you as the good lawyer you are, you'd say you can't do. And I think there's a

01:23:25.580 defensive posture for people in the national security space to say that wasn't a war plan.

01:23:30.660 Though Jeffrey Goldberg wouldn't have released the actual text with the, with the, whatever you want

01:23:37.080 to call those things. And the story didn't get better for Pete and Mike and everyone when he did

01:23:42.860 that. So it's like, I'm just saying, I'm just saying I get their defensive reflexive defensive

01:23:49.840 response because you're defending something, you know, not to be true. I get why they did it.

01:23:55.600 I know. I just like, you have to be smart when it comes to PR, same as you do as a military planner

01:24:01.640 and be able to see three, four or five steps ahead. So it's going to make you feel better to

01:24:05.920 do this counterstrike, but then, then what? Right. I, and that's, I bring it up because you're,

01:24:11.060 you know, we're talking about how we're now in day five of what should have been a 24 to 48 hour

01:24:15.520 scandal. I think it's over. I don't think it's, I mean, the Democrats will still continue to try to

01:24:19.420 light the flame. Megan, we also, you know, one of the things that didn't get much attention,

01:24:23.340 someone brought this up. I can't, I will steal the idea, but it wasn't mine is you think about

01:24:27.740 this. Goldberg knew about this for weeks, right? And he held it until he knew there was a pre-planned

01:24:34.040 hearing of the Intel chiefs on Capitol Hill. Like he got away with that. Just think about this. He

01:24:40.120 timed the drop of that story until he knew those chiefs were going to be on Capitol Hill. I mean,

01:24:44.980 you talk about the PR piece of this. I will give the Atlantic credit for, for literally thinking about

01:24:49.640 how to place this story and when to get the maximum effect.

01:24:53.860 Well, Walter Kern and Matt Taibbi were on the other day and they had a really good point.

01:24:58.320 They were like, why would you ever declare that you were on there? Just think you could have four

01:25:03.540 years of access to the most amazing communications ever. And then at the end of the administration,

01:25:09.080 be like, here's everything I saw. Oh my God. Like I could have been an even better scoop for them.

01:25:14.620 Anyway, I think it's over. I just thank God nobody on our side got hurt. The mission went

01:25:20.160 off perfectly and that we should be grateful that it did. I guess the trade representative

01:25:24.780 might've been on there because we were striking trade routes and the Houthis therein. Okay.

01:25:29.460 Next up, we've got to talk about, you know, on Monday, all the news was how the Democrat party is

01:25:34.500 in shambles. It has its worst approval ratings in years within its itself. You know, it's Democrats hate,

01:25:40.840 hate the party. Democrats hate their leaders. They have no leader. And then we start to see

01:25:45.980 like last night, Elise Stefanik was withdrawn as Trump's nominee for UN ambassador because he needs

01:25:52.180 her to stay in her seat. And then we find out that there was a special election in Pennsylvania

01:25:56.680 in a jurisdiction Trump won by double digits that went blue. And now we're looking at two in Florida

01:26:04.180 where Trump won by huge margins that are potentially in trouble. So what, what's happening? Is this a party

01:26:10.420 that's in trouble or isn't it? That's where we go with the guys right after this.

01:26:16.760 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open,

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01:27:19.320 What are we supposed to make of what I said before the break? I thought the Democrats were imploding

01:27:25.420 and yet Elise has got to leave the UN job so she can hold on to that seat. You've got, um, this was a

01:27:33.340 Pennsylvania state race that the Democrats won, but it was a, it was a jurisdiction by Lancaster

01:27:42.620 County, Pennsylvania. It was a state Senate seat that Trump won by 15 points in November and included

01:27:49.420 the more conservative parts of a County that only one Democrat presidential candidate, Lyndon Johnson,

01:27:55.400 had won since the civil war. So that's Dems have to be feeling good about that. And then you've got

01:28:01.080 the Matt Gates seat and the Mike wall seat in Florida, which are normally totally solidly red,

01:28:07.440 but Republicans are worried about those. Elise Stefanik won her seat by 24 points last year.

01:28:13.780 And the guy who was running to replace her as the Republican on the ticket is up 16 points,

01:28:18.260 but still Trump said, get back down there. Elise, we can't afford to lose it. So I like what,

01:28:23.640 what's happening, Mark, what's happening. Well, don't want to overstate what the trend here,

01:28:29.120 because the country, the polls say, yes, the country's thinks, uh, people think the country's

01:28:34.020 on the right track. Um, president Trump is still wielding his power in a pretty dramatic and some

01:28:39.740 ways unprecedented way. I think there's three things going on. First of all, with any president,

01:28:44.060 the year after the election, you almost always see some sort of bounce back, right? The two

01:28:48.700 gubernatorial races the year after the presidential, only two, uh, competitive races every year,

01:28:53.280 uh, or, or somewhat competitive, at least New Jersey and Virginia. And for years, they swung

01:28:58.700 almost always to the president, the party, not of the president. So part of it is just,

01:29:03.240 it's a year after. Second is some of the stuff the president's doing does not seem, uh, relevant on

01:29:09.800 the economy to a lot of voters, particularly on inflation, where the, where has the president's

01:29:17.020 focus been on the economy. It's been on tariffs. Most people don't understand that. Some people

01:29:20.760 are worried about them. Um, and we see consumer confidence is, is a little bit off. So, or,

01:29:26.380 and some polls a lot off. So I think, I think that there's an economic, uh, gap and then you see that

01:29:31.700 in the president's polling where his ratings on the economy are lower and that's a big issue for voters.

01:29:35.980 And then lastly, there's no perfect off year election. That's going to tell you, you know,

01:29:41.720 exactly what's going on nationally, but there's no doubt that a factor in these races is when Donald

01:29:46.880 Trump isn't on the ballot, Republicans don't do as well. He's not on the ballot in these races

01:29:50.940 and Democrats finally have a little bit of pep in their step. They finally have a feeling of, well,

01:29:55.920 we can't beat him in Washington. We didn't beat him in the last election, but if we win these

01:29:59.920 special elections, if we donate money, if we volunteer, if we get energized, we can send a

01:30:04.140 message to everybody that we want to check on Trump. I think all those things have combined to

01:30:07.920 put Republicans back on their heels. Doesn't mean they're going to lose any of these races

01:30:11.760 necessarily, although they did, as you say, lose the one in Pennsylvania, but this is a time,

01:30:17.080 uh, uh, we talked about it on the show, this, our show this morning, it's been the best week.

01:30:20.840 We all agree for, for Democrats since Trump got elected and, and that adds up to creating an

01:30:26.620 electoral environment that's favorable right now for Democrats as compared to the mean.

01:30:31.680 Dan, Scott Pressler is the guy who went to Pennsylvania, moved there for more than a year

01:30:37.080 prior to the vote and really was very instrumental in turning it red. Um, and he tweeted out,

01:30:43.120 I'm going to be honest with you, even if you don't want to hear it, Republicans have been losing

01:30:47.840 special elections all over the country, even red districts in Iowa and Pennsylvania. Democrats are

01:30:53.880 fired up. Unless we begin focusing on ground game, we will lose 2025 and 2026. Do you agree?

01:31:02.560 Yeah. And I think James Blair, I think it was in an interview with Politico,

01:31:05.760 the white house political director recently said, like, it is a little bit of a problem that our

01:31:10.340 team, meaning kind of Trump and MAGA supporters are pretty kind of happy right now. And you're

01:31:15.440 always a little less energized when you feel like everything is being accomplished that you fought

01:31:19.780 so hard for. Whereas angry MAGA is more effective, right? Whereas conversely Democrats are fired up.

01:31:26.120 And I think there's two things. Democrats are fired up about Donald Trump. They've also,

01:31:31.300 they're fired up about the kind of incompetence and ineptness of their own leaders. And what you're

01:31:37.500 seeing is this, like we've had enough and now like we are going to force action from the bottom up for

01:31:44.340 our own party to get its act together. And so on the local level, on the grassroots level, we can all

01:31:50.260 talk about AOC and Bernie Sanders. Their politics are not necessarily my politics, but what they're tapping

01:31:56.420 into, what they're showing the party. Hey, we can get 30,000 people to show up in a red state.

01:32:01.580 That is hard. I was in politics for 20 years. The only person who's been able to do it for year

01:32:06.600 after year is Donald Trump. You know, Obama had like a two year period where he was like really hot,

01:32:10.700 could fill arenas. And then it became a grind. Trump is the only one in Bernie Sanders who can do it.

01:32:17.000 And I think that you're seeing, you know, this week was signal. It was a little bit of a ding,

01:32:21.000 a self-inflicted error that Democrats said, okay, they're human a little bit, right? They were

01:32:25.440 fumbling around like it gave them some confidence. And so I think Democrats are energized. Republicans,

01:32:32.220 maybe not quite as much. And we'll see here. I also would not underestimate that what Mark said,

01:32:40.040 Trump got elected on the economy and inflation. And he doesn't even talk about those things most

01:32:45.320 of the time. Most of these press conferences, DEI, Doge with Elon Musk a lot, Ukraine, it's not on the

01:32:52.880 economy. And I think voters are frustrated. And you combine that with Doge having kind of a little

01:32:58.280 bit of a rickety, you know, reputation in polls, you see some, some pieces together.

01:33:05.080 You know, Megan, the thing is, look, special elections are special. That's a fact. There are

01:33:10.600 though lessons to be learned. And one of the things that I learned out of Pennsylvania beyond,

01:33:14.740 I mean, the environment we just talked about, there's no question. Republicans aren't as fired

01:33:18.640 up as Democrats right now, but mechanics matter and candidates matter. And in Pennsylvania,

01:33:23.100 by all estimation, the candidate was not very good. The mechanics on the ground were horrible.

01:33:28.320 That's what worries me about the Florida two special elections. The first district, which is the,

01:33:32.760 the, the one held previously by Matt Gaetz should be okay. Jimmy Petronis has run statewide before

01:33:39.280 and won several times. So he's a good candidate. He's got a good fundraising base. He's got people

01:33:43.760 motivated. The, the sixth district, which is the Matt, uh, Mike Waltsey, uh, which is the,

01:33:49.780 the Republican nominee state Senator Randy fine is not raising it by 30 points, 30 points. This

01:33:56.560 should be a slam dunk. Uh, now again, it's special. So maybe he only wins it by 10 or 12,

01:34:01.780 but right now it's dead. Even there's even one poll that shows the Dem up. This should be

01:34:06.660 a huge wake up call. The candidates matter. The mechanics matter, but that, I mean, that should

01:34:12.620 still keep it within five or 10. We have a problem. Scott Pressler is absolutely right. And that's the

01:34:17.860 thing is that at some point you can, you know, those things matter for a few points here and

01:34:22.200 there. We got a bigger problem too, in terms of keeping the base motivated. Well, um, it won't

01:34:28.120 be long until they get angry again. That's, that's Republicanism. There's always somebody disappointing

01:34:33.460 you. Um, go from fat and happy to angry in a big hurry. Yeah, it's, it's easy. Um, the Wisconsin

01:34:40.820 Supreme court race, we should spend a moment on spend a moment on too. There, there, I can't

01:34:45.380 believe the amount of messaging I get on a daily basis about this race as somebody lives in

01:34:49.980 Connecticut. Like, why am I getting this online and everywhere? Elon's doing his, you know,

01:34:55.340 you'll get a million dollars. If you can show me that you voted, you don't have to tell me who you

01:34:59.160 voted for. He's doing that thing again, uh, going back out there. Everybody's sounding very alarmist on

01:35:04.480 this thing. Uh, but the Democrat is up and by a lot, according to the latest poll, uh, where her

01:35:10.600 name is, uh, Crawford, Susan Crawford, she's up against Brad Skimmel and it's 50 42. According to

01:35:17.040 the latest poll of likely voters, 500 of them, although Wisconsin, they say is like impossible

01:35:21.180 to poll. So what's going to happen there and why does everyone care so very much? And is it

01:35:27.560 redistricting that this court is going to have the final say on? Yes. Yes. That's the biggest issue 0.98

01:35:35.000 redistricting. I mean, that, that's when they're going to, that would be a huge issue that people

01:35:39.040 should care about nationwide, not just the folks in Wisconsin, a lot of voter ID thing, a lot of

01:35:43.260 early voting all goes through this will go through the state Supreme court. So yeah, for a lot of

01:35:47.500 reasons, people should care about that. I think there's no question. Democrats have the edge going 0.96

01:35:51.480 to this. This is going to be a turnout thing. And that's why you're seeing Elon, Don jr. Others try to

01:35:55.860 make the case, tele-town halls, personal visits, et cetera, that Republicans could do themselves a

01:36:01.280 huge favor, uh, if they pick up the Supreme court seat. And, uh, I would say that they're not favored

01:36:07.000 to do it, but it's definitely one of those things is we head down the stretch that they have every

01:36:10.940 ability to do. I can't think of any state. Sorry. Go ahead, Mark. I can't think of any state

01:36:17.840 whose Supreme state Supreme court decisions have been as impactful, not just in the state, but kind of

01:36:23.160 nationally resonant as Wisconsin and like the, the, the political culture and the States and the U S

01:36:29.640 senators, they are actually purple, right? You can't think of very many States cause there aren't

01:36:34.060 very many left who have senators from different parties. Wisconsin does Ron Johnson, far right,

01:36:39.220 MAGA, Tammy Baldwin, pretty far left. And you see on that state Supreme court, the stakes are huge.

01:36:45.880 Again, Wisconsin's probably been supplant, supplanted by Pennsylvania as the battleground state,

01:36:51.480 but it's still number two. And so the stakes are high in order to not just impact that particular

01:36:57.320 state, but the symbolism is what's important to so many to say, we're going head to head with all

01:37:03.280 the outside money and the state ground games to see who can win a very contested seat in, in,

01:37:08.680 in Wisconsin. We've seen it before with Scott Walker. We've seen it before with the U S Senate race.

01:37:13.220 It is high stakes there because of the national resonance of the state of the state and it's put in

01:37:17.940 our political culture. So Dan is what's going to happen. Let's say that if the Democrat wins,

01:37:22.500 then the Democrats control that court. And then is it true that that could mean as many as two

01:37:28.520 congressional seats, additional congressional seats for the Democrats?

01:37:33.820 It could, I mean, we'll, we'll have to see, there's going to be a gubernatorial race in Wisconsin

01:37:39.020 here in two years in 2028. And, um, you know, we'll just have to see kind of how it shakes out.

01:37:44.800 Look, what it does do is just give a little, you know, momentum to the party. We just lost,

01:37:51.180 but Tammy Baldwin did win there. I think one of the things that we're really watching for all three

01:37:56.220 of us and Megan, you probably as well as Elon Musk in the fall last year was an asset to Donald Trump.

01:38:03.880 I don't think anyone would disagree with that. He is now going there this weekend. He's put a lot

01:38:09.840 of money into this race. He's been very vocal on X and other places. I'm curious if his presence 0.77

01:38:15.720 helps, if he is still an asset or if what we're seeing in polls, that his favorabilities are coming

01:38:21.900 down as unfavorables are rising, like the black focus group, people have concerns about him.

01:38:27.380 Does he become a liability? And if he does, that will be interesting, right? As we head into

01:38:33.680 more doge cuts, we, we head into this bill, the reconciliation bill, it will start to say to

01:38:39.520 Republicans, perhaps, perhaps the ground is shifting. Hmm. I don't like the chances in

01:38:46.780 Wisconsin, but I'm heartened by the fact that the polls in Wisconsin are never correct. I mean,

01:38:52.440 it's just like you, you can't, it's like having no pull whatsoever. So I suppose anything could

01:38:58.180 happen because Trump won it. So, you know, it's not like there's no. Yeah, so did Ron Johnson,

01:39:03.080 so did Scott Walker. It tends to break to the right at the end. Uh, but that assumes a strong

01:39:08.220 ground game. And as you know, these off year ones are just so, so, so, uh, reading the electorate's

01:39:14.900 very difficult. So I, I mean, that's, you're absolutely right. That's the one on one piece of

01:39:19.180 hope. The GOP has to learn to win without Trump because, you know, he's not going to be on the

01:39:25.560 ballot again. I mean, I know there's some ban and talk, but he's not going to be on the ban on the

01:39:29.760 ballot again. You guys, it's a pleasure. Have a great weekend. It's so great to see you. Thanks

01:39:36.300 for sticking with me. Great to see you, Megan. Thank you again. Great to see you. Wow. So

01:39:40.120 interesting. Aren't those guys great? Uh, if you would like to weigh in on the show, you can email me

01:39:43.920 Megan at Megan Kelly.com. And today is the day to go to Megan Kelly.com because there you can

01:39:48.980 register for our once a week email. We call it the American news minute, and it gives you all the

01:39:53.520 week news, uh, in 60 seconds or less, plus some fun highlights of the show and some Stradwick

01:39:59.140 antics. And I think you'll really like this week's Stradwick update among, among other things that are

01:40:05.120 newsy. Uh, thank you all so much for watching and you have a great weekend too.

01:40:08.460 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 28, 2025

Shocking DOGE Findings, Elon vs. Sen. Kelly, and Hillary's Hypocrisy, with Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine ｜ Ep. 1037

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