J.K. Rowling may be facing jail time for speaking the truth about gender ideology in Scotland, and P. Diddy could be facing a perjury charge in the case of his ex-wife. Plus, we take a look at the new evidence released by prosecutors in the Ruby Frankie case.
00:00:00.520Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:00:12.200Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:00:15.700Kelly's Court is now in session. We've got a packed show full of analysis on all the big legal stories making headlines.
00:00:22.460The judge overseeing Donald Trump's upcoming criminal trial in New York about those Stormy Daniels hush payments.
00:00:28.260Since expanding the gag order placed on the former president, Mr. Trump can no longer attack the judge's politically active adult daughter whose clients include some of Trump's loudest opponents.
00:00:41.820Fair? Plus, we'll dive deep into the investigation into P. Diddy and what we're learning, and we will take a look at the evidence just released by prosecutors in the Ruby Frankie case.
00:00:51.700She's the YouTube star now in prison for abusing her children. This one is so disturbing, and what they just released is truly shocking.
00:01:00.360Does the sentence fit the crime? But we begin today with the question of whether J.K. Rowling may be going to jail.
00:01:08.820Her possible offense? Speaking the truth about gender ideology.
00:01:13.220The famous author lives in Glasgow, Scotland, where a new law just went into effect on Monday, criminalizing the act of, quote, stirring up hatred by speaking or behaving in a way that, quote, a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive, or insulting.
00:01:34.600Insulting? Yes, it is now criminal to insult someone in Scotland, at least if it might, quote, stir up hatred.
00:01:45.900Free speech is officially dead in Scotland. Scotland, which is literally known for the physical and mental toughness of its people.
00:01:52.760A country famous for its never-ending gray and gloomy weather. In one area years ago, they only got 36 minutes of sunshine in a month, okay?
00:02:29.620The Scottish government says the law will protect against, quote, hate and prejudice without stifling expression, reports the BBC, which quotes the, quote, victims and community safety minister over there, Siobhan Brown, as downplaying fears over the legislation.
00:02:48.040You see, Ms. Brown said, I think there's been a lot of misinformation about this, before pointing out that this law passed unanimously.
00:02:57.080And speaking of misinformation, Ms. Brown, this abomination actually passed 82 to 32.
00:03:03.420So far, too many yes votes for me, but 32 no's makes it non-unanimous, my friend.
00:03:09.680While Great Britain, which includes Scotland, already criminalizes stirring up hatred based on race, color, nationality, or ethnicity, the Scottish law adds transgender identity, along with sexual orientation, religion, disability, and age to the list.
00:03:34.260So moms worried about autogynephiles, those who get sexually aroused from cross-dressing, which experts say constitutes over 82% of men claiming they are, quote, trans women.
00:03:50.100So you're talking about the vast majority who get off by putting on women's clothes?
00:03:55.420Those guys who decide to change in their little daughters' locker rooms, these moms' daughters' locker rooms, and get erections in their miniskirts?
00:04:04.300Well, those moms can't say a word about that without potentially facing criminal threat.
00:04:27.060But if these males say they're female, you see, you need to STFU and accept that, quote, fact, or you're the one who could be headed to prison in Scotland.
00:04:40.820But wait, supporters of the law remind us a defense to criminal charges under this law is that one's speech or actions, that they were reasonable.
00:04:55.920So people arrested for spewing these vile insults, and by that we mean saying fake women are really men, they needn't worry, you see.
00:05:05.200After the embarrassment of a public arrest, potentially for saying something in your living room and not even in a public forum, and the expense of hiring an attorney, maybe a few nights in jail before the lucky ones bond out, you can go through the joys of a criminal trial.
00:05:21.320Taking off work, taking off work, being publicly dragged as a criminal, and letting a jury of strangers decide whether your speech was reasonable in their view.
00:05:34.040You see, they care very much in Scotland about hurting the feelings of trans people.
00:05:39.340Anyone else's humiliation, they don't give a damn.
00:05:41.600Even misgendering someone, which means accurately gendering them, can land you in jail.
00:05:51.480At Minister, I mentioned Ms. Brown, she was specifically asked about this, misgendering.
00:05:56.940And she said, well, it would be up to the police to determine whether calling a he, a she, makes you a criminal.
00:06:06.360Doesn't matter if you don't believe in the transgender cult or not, you will say she for a 6'6", 280-pound man who wants to play in your daughter's field hockey team.
00:19:40.860Alvin Bragg, the DA, went in and said, judge, you need to expand your gag order.
00:19:45.240And the judge just did yesterday saying, you're right.
00:19:48.600I'm going to expand my gag order to bar Trump from attacking the court's family members, the judge's family members, along with those of Alvin Bragg, the DA, though he can still criticize Alvin Bragg.
00:20:01.700Trump's not correct that that he's not allowed to criticize Alvin Bragg or the judge himself.
00:20:07.400And I'll just give you a little color on what the judge said.
00:20:10.160He said Trump has a pattern of attacking family members, of presiding jurists and attorneys assigned to his cases, and that pattern serves no legitimate purpose.
00:20:20.860It merely injects fear in those assigned or called to participate in the proceedings that not only they, but their family members as well are fair game for defendants' vitriol.
00:20:31.520It is no longer just a mere possibility or a reasonable likelihood that there exists a threat to the integrity of the judicial proceedings.
00:20:41.300The average observer must now, after hearing defendants' recent attacks, draw the conclusion that if they become involved in these proceedings, even tangentially, they should worry not only for themselves, but for their loved ones as well.
00:20:54.320Such concerns will undoubtedly interfere with the fair administration of justice and constitute a direct attack on the rule of law itself.
00:21:02.380So there's more, which I'll get to in a minute.
00:21:04.360But what do you make of Judge Merchant saying, that's it, you're done, you can't attack my daughter, and Trump saying, she's fair game, she's a political operative?
00:21:39.340And I know personally, I wouldn't feel bad if somebody came after me, but you come after my family, I can understand why the judge would want to do this.
00:21:49.480If it runs afoul of the law, then the appellate court would say, hey, judge, you stepped over the line.
00:22:05.760You know, there is a legitimate purpose.
00:22:07.280It at least lets me discern what credibility I want to give to his statements and decide whether the judge has some type of interest in the outcome.
00:22:19.660I'm not saying that he does or he doesn't.
00:22:21.480I just want to know all available information.
00:22:38.520He shouldn't be allowed to go after a judge's minor children.
00:22:40.980But this woman is an adult and a professional political operative who makes her living getting people like Adam Schiff reelected, who is fundraising off of the Trump trials.
00:22:56.640So, you know, Trump's point is the more money Adam Schiff raises off of my trial, the more money the judge's daughter makes, who's already been paid reportedly $10 million by Schiff in his reelection quest.
00:23:14.460And so why on earth am I barred from calling her out as a partisan hack and saying the judge has an interest in promoting his daughter and everybody on the merchant side will do much better if Trump is a criminal than if Trump isn't a criminal?
00:23:32.480Well, let me just address one thing, because what you're talking about, the financial aspect of this and his daughter's financial gain.
00:23:40.180If she lived in the judge's household, he would unequivocally have to recuse himself, the judge.
00:23:47.220The ethical rules state that if it's a spouse or a child who lives in the judge's household has a financial interest in the outcome of the matter, then the judge has to recuse him or herself.
00:24:00.120Now, she doesn't live in his house, she doesn't even live in his state, but boy, I will tell you, and I know it's hard to do from an egotistical point of view, but if I was that judge, I would recuse myself.
00:24:11.980I'd say, listen, my daughter is working for the other team, this is the biggest case in the United States of America, and my ethics and my integrity are such that I don't want any interference, that my personal life and my personal views, because I want to protect my daughter, is going to affect my judgment in this case.
00:24:29.540But, you know, he has a little out because she doesn't live with him, but you're right, Megan, she does have a financial interest in the outcome of this.
00:24:38.640In terms of the gag order, you know, for me, I have PTSD with this whole case.
00:24:43.140It's in the same courthouse, in the same courtroom that I tried the Harvey Weinstein case with the same DA's office, and we were told to shut up.
00:24:52.000I mean, I went on IMIS just to talk about, like, what was going on in jury selection, like, just vanilla how jury selection works in the county of Manhattan.
00:25:03.160And I got, oh, I got so yelled at by the judge, and you're not supposed to talk about this case.
00:25:07.140I said, judge, it could have been this case or any other case.
00:25:09.280I was just talking about the logistics.
00:25:11.880And then what would happen every day after the Harvey Weinstein case, it was either Gloria Allred or Doug Wigdor having their own press conference beating the hell out of us.
00:25:22.260And unlike Donald Trump, who will probably have surrogates protecting his role in all of this, there wasn't too many people standing up for Harvey Weinstein giving his side of the story.
00:25:31.840So I think gag orders should be put in very limited circumstances, but I think the overall message has to do with witness tampering.
00:25:41.960The judge does not want to have someone as powerful as the former president of the United States or maybe the next president of the United States, his words, his Twitter account, so powerful that it thwarts other people who might want to come forward and be witnesses and participate in any trial from doing so.
00:25:58.840You know, a word on the recusal, Mark, because there was a request that he recused himself and the judge apparently went to Team Trump asked him to recuse himself and he apparently went up the line.
00:26:14.960I don't know who he asked, probably the state bar, whether he needed to.
00:26:17.660And they said, you're good, which doesn't surprise me.
00:26:20.220But Arthur's right, the standard under Section 100.3 of the statute governing when a judge shall recuse says he's disqualified, yes, if there's a minor child and so on who's affected.
00:26:35.660And then it says, if the judge knows that he or a person known by him to be within the sixth degree of relationship to him, which would include a daughter, has an interest that could be substantially affected by the proceeding.
00:26:54.640I can see the argument that her interest is somewhat attenuated.
00:26:57.980She's not she's not Adam Schiff, right, running on whether Trump is a criminal.
00:27:05.780If Adam Schiff were the kid, the judge would definitely have to recuse.
00:27:10.460She's helping Adam Schiff and Democrats in the Senate run for reelection.
00:27:18.680But I think if there's a doubt, you recuse yourself as a judge.
00:27:22.100And the fact that he didn't is what's put his daughter in this situation where Trump has a right to criticize her and to criticize the judge for the for this relationship, saying this is a family of Democrat operatives.
00:27:36.840His politics are likely to be those of his daughter's and on his daughter's allegedly now defunct Twitter account, X account, there was up until a couple of days ago, you know, the picture you put of yourself there as your little like face, a picture of Trump behind bars.
00:27:54.960Now, there's a whole story behind that here.
00:28:53.360And if he did do the wrong thing and Trump is convicted, then the first issue on appeal is going to be this judge shouldn't have been the judge.
00:29:05.120And the judge at least feels like he's on solid footing, at least if the appellate court ever looks at this, to say he didn't have to.
00:29:12.680And I looked at the same statute that both you and Arthur talked about.
00:29:15.860I don't think that the daughter meets the definition that would require him to remove himself.
00:29:21.900So now we're traveling under, does it give the image of impropriety?
00:29:26.000And I think there you can make a strong argument, you know, that that while he doesn't have to recuse himself, you know, it does give the image of impropriety when your dear daughter, you know, hates the very defendant that's in front of you.
00:29:39.700That said, yes, it'll be an appellate issue.
00:29:42.800No, the judge, in my opinion, doesn't have to recuse himself.
00:30:14.360So I've actually had a couple conversations with my dad recently where he's kind of like, I hate that politicians use Twitter and like it's so unprofessional and, you know, that's not how a politician should behave themselves.
00:30:28.140And I explained that like, yeah, I think there are a lot of instances where it is not used and like when our president tweets anything that he thinks and like that's not what he should be using it for.
00:30:40.780So that just shows she's commented on Trump in the past and on her conversations with her father, this judge, about Trump in the past and Trump's social media use.
00:30:55.700But they're talking about his Twitter use is directly at issue in this trial.
00:31:00.720It's one of the reasons why they just got a three-week delay because this case was supposed to start in March, but they got a bunch of documents from the feds that related to this case and potentially related to Trump's Twitter use.
00:31:15.120This is one of the issues why he's, this is one of the reasons, let me correct myself, this is one of the reasons why Trump is arguing that he has immunity because some of the things at issue are tweets he sent out while president.
00:31:24.460So in any event, the judge's thoughts on his immunity, the judge's thoughts on his Twitter use, all of this, the judge is too close.
00:31:31.260Like there's just, I'm sorry that your daughter became a political operative and ruined your chances of trying this case, but I think this judge should be gone.
00:31:38.140And I think this is actually a legit issue.
00:31:40.840Even though I have empathy, truly, I do have empathy for the daughter who, it's okay to be in Democrat politics.
00:31:46.120It's okay to be in Republican politics while your father is a judge.
00:31:51.020It doesn't really, shouldn't really make her a direct Trump target, but that's the world we live in.
00:31:56.660We've crossed the Rubicon in indicting, you know, former presidents and would-be presidents.
00:32:35.260And I think it's incumbent upon the Manhattan DA, along with whatever Judge Mershon is capable of doing, to do something to protect not just staff, not just his own child, but all of the witnesses that are being asked to testify.
00:32:54.540How can it be that he can go out and say what he wants, but Trump cannot?
00:32:59.300Well, I think, Megan, I think it goes back to what I was saying about, you know, tampering with a witness.
00:33:07.140This isn't, you know, Arthur Idala is sending out these tweets or going on the airwaves.
00:33:11.580This is the guy who was the former president of the United States and could be the next president of the United States.
00:33:59.800But how can he not, how can he be protected from return fire?
00:34:03.580Because what the judge is saying is, Mr. Trump, if you and your team want to go after Mr. Cohen's credibility, you're going to do so in my courtroom in front of 12 jurors under the rules of evidence.
00:34:15.480You're not going to just start spewing things out and taking the whole jury pool here in New York City before the trial starts.
00:35:04.380But this judge is saying that the legal distinction is that whatever Trump is putting out there could have an adverse effect on justice and could intimidate witnesses.
00:35:20.580Courts are understandably concerned about the First Amendment rights of the defendant, especially when the accused is a public figure.
00:35:27.420The circumstances of the instant matter, however, are different.
00:35:30.580The conventional David versus Goliath roles are no longer in play, as demonstrated by the singular power defendants' words have on countless others.
00:35:41.120I mean, that bothers me because he's basically saying Trump is so well known with such a powerful online following that he, he in particular, should be gagged because he's not David versus Goliath, the system.
00:35:56.760And that's just not true because the system is still Goliath, even if the person they're going after is the former president.
00:36:40.100When Megan, are you actually saying that it's not relevant for the judge to consider the reach that the person sending out the message has, that somehow Donald Trump has the same impact on potential witnesses and potential jurors as the average Joe who has 16 followers?
00:37:25.240Whether it's the judge's daughter, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels.
00:37:29.000I want my audience to remember that, too.
00:37:31.640I want you to remember that just because you may love Trump doesn't mean it's appropriate for him to be threatening anybody.
00:37:36.280But these are not threats that what I see here are criticisms and attempts to diminish the credibility of the people who are going to come for him, like Cohen, like Stormy Daniels.
00:37:49.640And if they are going to take the stand and come for him in a criminal setting, they have to expect that he is going to have thoughts on those accusations and their behavior.
00:38:00.500And Michael Cohen, not only he's all over MSNBC, but Stormy Daniels just had a whole documentary made about her and her relationship with Trump.
00:38:41.140Didn't you plead to lying and this and that in front of a jury under the rules of evidence, under the control of a judge?
00:38:48.280And yes, Donald Trump, as a criminal defendant, whether you like it or not, he loses certain rights and privileges that those of us are entitled to.
00:40:00.220But if you start threatening her or any other witness in this case, we're going to have a problem.
00:40:05.240And but I'd also say this, if my daughter attacks you first or if a witness attacks you first publicly, then go for it.
00:40:15.860Like, I would not allow them to be out there publicly attacking Trump every night on the airwaves and in movies and so on.
00:40:23.380And then say he has no right to because you're ignoring his other lane, which is the future president of the United States and all like that.
00:40:31.480The judge is allowed to ignore his other lane.
00:40:33.800The judge is looking at him with blinders on him.
00:40:35.440Why does the judge get to take into account his power when deciding whether he needs to be silenced, but not in deciding whether he has the right to speak and we have the right to hear him?
00:40:44.840Because it's about intimidating a witness.
00:40:47.280I'll give you the scenario I just gave you.
00:40:49.260If there's a witness in the coffee shop who's about to testify and some big bruiser comes and says you probably shouldn't go to court on Monday, that's one thing.
00:40:56.260If some little meek, like 17-year-old kid says it, it's not really a big threat.
00:41:01.820So the judge is allowed to take into consideration, am I allowing a criminal defendant to prevent a witness from testifying in a case against him?
01:10:02.420That's, it's amazing that they have the actual videotape.
01:10:06.100I mean, and good for the cops for holding onto that and making sure those moments were documented.
01:10:10.100But these children were emaciated, Arthur.
01:10:12.520The boy who had been, you know, escaped, gone over the neighbors, had clear marks of being shackled around his legs.
01:10:19.920He had, he had duct tape around his legs.
01:10:23.560Underneath the duct tape was saran wrap, but he had visible wounds all over his body.
01:10:28.680And it's amazing to me that this, this boy, this is a viewer warning, just FYI, this, we are showing pictures of the results of abuse, which I understand can be jarring and upsetting to some.
01:10:40.100But it's important to see what was happening, because what happened over and over, oh, that's awful.
01:10:53.820That's exactly, that's, you just, that was the question I was going to have.
01:10:58.900Like, I know I don't have a typical lifestyle.
01:11:01.260There's a lot of people around my world.
01:11:03.080But, you know, even the neighbor on the 911 call says, I don't forget what exactly we said.
01:11:08.340There's some weird things going on there, or some, he alluded to the fact that there was some weird stuff going on at the house.
01:11:14.680Look, I know in New York, if you call, it's not that hard, as unfunctional, dysfunctional as the city of New York is, you start calling about kids being abused, the children's services are at your house pretty quickly, because they didn't do it once about a decade ago in a girl, in a case, and the girl died, the little child died.
01:11:34.460So they've really upped their game in terms of doing wellness visits to the house, and, you know, why that wasn't done earlier or sooner, and there's teachers, there's providers that have, they're obligated to call and ask for help.
01:11:51.020You know, the teacher who says, you know, your kid didn't come to school, well, she's going to be hungry, but, you know, she'll learn a lesson now.
01:12:11.840And we'll talk about Kevin in one second.
01:12:13.240But before I get to that, I want to stay on the fact that nobody was following up on, you know, obvious red flags all over this household, Mark.
01:12:21.220There are four older children who were not living in this home.
01:12:25.060Again, where Ruby Frankie, the mother, I use that term generously, and her counselor slash friend, Jesse Hildebrandt.
01:12:38.220And one of the older siblings in the Frankie family called Protective Services and asked for a welfare check on her younger siblings in 2022.
01:12:51.140The father, Kevin, had moved out because the counselor, Jody, told him to get out to allegedly work on a porn addiction, which now he says he didn't have.
01:13:10.980My four younger siblings are living in Springville, and my neighbors have been telling me that they have been left home alone for about four or five days.
01:13:19.300And so I was curious if someone could go check on them.
01:13:22.680I know CPS has come a couple times because of this already, but they never find a problem, but it keeps happening.
01:13:28.740So I'm going to have an officer give you a call back.
01:13:31.720So to fill in the blanks here, this daughter, after her mother was arrested, said justice is now being served.
01:13:40.980We've been trying to tell police and CPS for years about this.
01:13:44.040So glad they finally decided to step up.
01:13:46.160Kids are safe, but there's a long road ahead.
01:13:53.080Police told 2020 they were not able to get a warrant to search the home.
01:13:57.440An unnamed neighbor claimed that multiple adults in the community had been trying to get the Utah Division of Child and Family Services involved for over a year, having noticed Frankie's long absences.
01:14:09.540I'm really angry, says one, because I spoke up.
01:14:12.300If people knew the amount of tears and time spent talking with law enforcement and CPS over the last year, I want people to understand that.
01:14:19.360And I want these kids to know that because I think they thought they were abandoned.
01:14:23.580The Springfield-Springville Police Department told NBC that officers did show up at Frankie's home to investigate, but their attempts and attempts by DCSF to contact the children proved unsuccessful because the kids wouldn't come to the door.
01:14:42.360So I would pray that somebody from that jurisdiction conducts an in-depth analysis to how they failed these children.
01:14:52.420If you can explain it away, all right, well, the cops showed up and then, okay, they couldn't just go in because of X, Y, and Z, then we'll understand it.
01:15:01.340But someone needs to be held accountable.
01:15:03.400I bet there was something more that could have been done.
01:15:06.000And if something more was done, we're talking about years of torture that could have been avoided.
01:15:12.000I don't understand a scenario, Arthur, in which the cops are getting called by multiple community members.
01:15:20.020DCFS is getting called by multiple community members.
01:16:22.940And if there's anything positive that you want to take out of this horrible story is I, I would hope that the regulations and the rules and their, the response time, you know, is altered.
01:16:35.460I am thinking, Megan, I'd like to hear your opinion on this.
01:16:38.980The fact that this is in Utah, which is a kind of a different state than maybe other states in the union.
01:16:44.340Do you think that has any effect on this?
01:16:51.360I mean, you know, Mormons, this isn't a Mormon thing, but there may be some extreme sect of, you know, an offshoot that is, is more prone to like living without the authorities coming or not sending their kids to school.
01:17:05.260I mean, we've seen that in like cults.
01:17:06.780And this woman, uh, Jody was accused of running her own kind of cult because what happened was she became the therapist for Ruby Frankie and her husband, Kevin.
01:17:18.060And then before you knew it, she had Kevin out of the house.
01:17:21.200She had Kevin out of the picture telling him he had a porn addiction.
01:17:24.460Apparently she said that to anybody who had ever like seen porn or like, you know, self-pleasure would get you in trouble with this woman in any degree.
01:17:32.540She's got a, a niece who, when news broke of the, her arrest, Jody and Rudy's, uh, arrest Ruby, Jesse, the niece reached out to cops to help them with their investigation.
01:17:43.420And she said, quote, Ruby needs to be held accountable because she made these choices.
01:17:47.860She's just as guilty, but Jody's been doing this for years for much longer, says the niece.
01:17:52.680She says back in 2010, I, the niece, Jesse went to cops in Utah and said there'd been extreme mental abuse at Jody's hand that I, Jesse, the niece needed a safe house because my aunt Jody subjected me to severe emotional, spiritual, and psychological abuse.
01:18:10.340Jody accused her, that, that my aunt Jody accused me, Jesse, of being a sex and a porn addict addicted to masturbation, said the therapy she insisted on included the niece not being able to use tampons or having any privacy in the bathroom.
01:18:25.760Quote, she wanted to make my life so uncomfortable that it would have forced sin out.
01:18:29.680This continuously got worse and worse.
01:18:31.640So there's a reference there to religiosity, right?
01:18:34.560Jesse went to cops to report the alleged abuse.