The Megyn Kelly Show - Speaking Freely and Kaepernick Truth, with Michele Tafoya, Plus Hillary Spying on Trump, with Victor Davis Hanson ｜ Ep. 261

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.760 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday.

00:00:16.500 It's Valentine's Day, so happy Valentine's Day.

00:00:20.740 Sadly, as we know, there's still no love lost, however, between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

00:00:26.340 And there is just a stunning, stunning new court filing laying out how Special Prosecutor John Durham believes that the Clinton campaign spied, spied on Trump both before and after he became president.

00:00:42.380 I mean, specifically saying that they managed to hack into his computer in the executive office of the president.

00:00:50.120 Okay? If that's true, someone's going to jail, someone other than the lawyer, who right now they're allegedly getting this information from.

00:00:58.180 This is enormous. We don't know whether it's true, though.

00:01:01.320 So we're not going to be a Rachel Maddow and assume it is.

00:01:04.680 She's gone the other way on Russia the whole time.

00:01:07.240 We'll tell you what is being alleged when one of our favorite people, Victor Davis Hanson, joins us in our next hour.

00:01:14.980 But first, we begin with an exclusive interview today as one of the best in the business calls it a day after the Super Bowl.

00:01:23.480 Michelle Tafoya is widely regarded as the top sideline reporter in all of sports.

00:01:30.280 She recently made waves discussing off-the-field topics.

00:01:34.700 You may know her if you're not a sports fan from when she appeared on The View a couple of months ago.

00:01:39.900 And it was wonderful. It was like, wait, who is that voice of reason over there who is incredibly smart, armed with facts, not afraid of these other women,

00:01:50.760 especially on dicey issues like race, the NFL, Colin Kaepernick.

00:01:57.040 She was battling the co-hosts over everything from COVID to critical race theory.

00:02:01.620 And for those who do not know Michelle, there's just a tiny bit of that.

00:02:05.300 Why are we even teaching that the color of the skin matters? 1.00

00:02:09.940 Because to me, what matters is your character and your values.

00:02:12.900 Yes, but you know, you live in the United States.

00:02:15.380 You know that color of skin has been mattering to people.

00:02:19.240 Can't we change it that it doesn't?

00:02:21.140 Well, we need white people to step up and do that. 0.57

00:02:23.640 But I think that they've been doing that since the Civil War.

00:02:26.680 And I'm not saying it's perfect.

00:02:28.020 No, no, no, no, they haven't.

00:02:29.300 What do you mean they haven't?

00:02:30.560 They have, listen, when you have a country or a state, let's talk about a state where somebody can be hung from a tree and it's okay.

00:02:42.280 That's not okay.

00:02:43.140 Well, it was okay.

00:02:44.340 It was okay in the South. 0.88

00:02:45.580 People did it all the time.

00:02:47.260 And no one's disputing that happened all those years ago.

00:02:50.280 Anyway, Michelle was amazing. 0.99

00:02:51.900 She's had an incredible career and now she's starting a new chapter and has yet to reveal what it is.

00:02:57.580 Michelle, thank you so much for being here.

00:02:59.900 Oh, my goodness.

00:03:00.600 It is my pleasure.

00:03:01.960 Thank you for having me.

00:03:03.380 Oh, I'm honored.

00:03:04.460 I'm honored.

00:03:05.480 Everything I've read about you, everything, I'm like, I love this woman.

00:03:09.420 This woman and I are going to be friends.

00:03:10.940 Honestly, you're so sensible and you are ready to back up your opinions.

00:03:16.160 And you're not like a bomb thrower, but you're like, this is how I feel.

00:03:19.520 Too bad if you don't like it.

00:03:20.840 This is how I roll.

00:03:22.340 And weirdly, because I like to think about myself that way, Michelle, but I don't think if I were to retire from a career, let's say at NBC or elsewhere, that everybody, every single person would be saying such nice and laudatory things the way they have about you.

00:03:41.540 And everyone loves you.

00:03:43.320 Well, not all those women on The View and certainly not their audience.

00:03:48.120 No, the women were great, but their audience did not love me.

00:03:51.240 So it's not like I'm universally loved because I don't share their opinions.

00:03:56.540 But it is crazy to me.

00:03:59.960 I think people that know me, they get me.

00:04:02.920 And it obviously takes a little while for the rest of the world to get to know you.

00:04:07.880 So that's what I hope to do here now.

00:04:11.020 Yes.

00:04:11.280 OK, so this is the thing.

00:04:12.280 I mean, it's been a big mystery.

00:04:13.280 Why?

00:04:13.660 Why would you be leaving?

00:04:14.480 It's not like you're struggling to make it as a sports reporter, all the Emmys and all the awards.

00:04:19.340 And like, I mean, the list of accolades you've received is really impressive.

00:04:22.220 Plus just the beloved, you know, your beloved Al Michaels last night, I think was going to shed a tear.

00:04:26.540 That it was your last night.

00:04:28.060 Chris Collinsworth, they all adore you.

00:04:30.320 So but you've been saying you you want to do something that exercises other muscles.

00:04:35.460 I can relate to this.

00:04:36.580 This happened at my career.

00:04:38.000 What what does that look like?

00:04:40.600 Well, there are a couple of things that are starting right this minute.

00:04:43.660 I am the co-chair now of the Kendall Qualls for Governor campaign in Minnesota, where I've lived for 25 plus years.

00:04:51.820 And I've been asked to run for Governor Megan.

00:04:55.020 But this is not the right time.

00:04:57.280 I have two kids that are in high school and junior high.

00:05:00.400 I want to see I've missed so much.

00:05:02.820 So I want to devote some time to my family, certainly my husband included.

00:05:06.880 And but I am willing to step up for this gentleman, Kendall Qualls, and say we need a change in leadership.

00:05:14.860 We need sensible, reasonable people.

00:05:17.460 And it's just it's I got to tell you, I wake up every single morning, every morning, and there is a tug at my chest.

00:05:27.360 And that tug is telling you, Michelle, you have to help somehow you've got to help.

00:05:33.060 And I can't do that in this role as a sideline reporter.

00:05:35.980 This has been a phenomenal career.

00:05:37.900 I've loved every minute of it, almost, except for the freezing cold temperatures in Lambeau Field in December.

00:05:43.600 But other than that, I've loved it.

00:05:46.720 But there is so much work to be done.

00:05:49.320 And I'm sitting around fretting about it and thinking about it constantly.

00:05:54.960 And one thing I've learned is that you can't fret and think and complain unless you're really willing to do something about it.

00:06:02.220 Otherwise, you've got to let it go.

00:06:03.560 And I'm not ready to let it go.

00:06:05.060 I'm really concerned about the future of this country.

00:06:08.820 I love this country.

00:06:10.560 I'm not ashamed to say it.

00:06:12.100 My family's story is the American dream, both my mom and my dad and me.

00:06:16.820 And I love it.

00:06:17.920 And I know it's there for everyone.

00:06:19.900 And I'm tired of people trying to tell other people that it's a farce or that it's not real or here's why you can't succeed instead of telling people why you can succeed.

00:06:32.560 And so I just I can't keep it to myself anymore.

00:06:36.880 And I feel like I need to be a voice.

00:06:40.260 Yes.

00:06:40.800 Right now is not a good time to be on the sidelines for someone like you.

00:06:44.660 Right.

00:06:46.040 That's exactly what it feels like.

00:06:47.560 And it's a I can't the only way I can describe it to you.

00:06:50.940 And I have a feeling you'll understand this is like I wake up and something's pulling at my chest, at my heart and my guts, at my soul.

00:06:58.800 Like it's a palpable feel.

00:07:01.620 Go help. 0.81

00:07:02.920 And I just couldn't ignore that anymore.

00:07:05.120 I couldn't ignore it.

00:07:06.240 And so whether it's a run in the future or not, I am going to stand behind people and with people and I am going to let my voice be heard, which is just something that you can't do when you're a very public, silent reporter on a sports slash entertainment show that is supposed to just make people happy.

00:07:23.100 And NBC was great about saying, look, go, you know, say the things you want to say.

00:07:28.980 Be careful.

00:07:30.060 And I don't want to be careful anymore.

00:07:32.960 I don't I did not have that experience with NBC.

00:07:37.100 That's interesting.

00:07:38.260 I'm glad.

00:07:38.980 I'm glad you had that direction.

00:07:43.240 Yeah, a little bit different situation.

00:07:45.760 Well, you note that.

00:07:47.940 I mean, there was a lot I could not that they asked me not to do.

00:07:51.100 I was asked to start a podcast a year or so ago and they said, you know, can you just hold off?

00:07:56.900 So it wasn't like I was given total freedom.

00:07:59.840 And I do understand that.

00:08:02.060 And it's what I signed up for.

00:08:03.320 So I couldn't complain.

00:08:04.420 And and I just waited for the right time.

00:08:07.460 And this seemed everything came together right now with the Super Bowl and everything happening.

00:08:12.480 And I just said this.

00:08:14.620 This is the time.

00:08:16.060 Honest question.

00:08:16.960 Do you think that if you were a liberal who privately was espousing more progressive values, they would have let you do the podcast?

00:08:23.900 That's a great question.

00:08:26.940 I don't know.

00:08:28.000 You know, I will say that, you know, I will say this.

00:08:31.980 Bob Costas, my former colleague at NBC Sports, is that person, is more liberal and did some halftime essays during Sunday Night Football over the years that drew some ire from some of our fans.

00:08:45.240 And I think what fairly NBC wanted to avoid was taking off their fans of the sport, of the game, of this opportunity to escape that stuff.

00:08:57.020 But that was a different day.

00:08:59.540 What's that?

00:09:00.320 That was a different day.

00:09:01.620 I remember that.

00:09:02.140 What?

00:09:02.240 Didn't he write some dicey piece on the Second Amendment or something about guns?

00:09:05.080 Yeah.

00:09:05.700 But but since then, you know, since the wokeification of ESPN and NBC and all these sports in general, I just wonder whether they would be saying, you know, if you wanted to go out there and be like BLM and, you know, trans swimmers should swim and all that stuff.

00:09:22.700 I just can't imagine them silencing you.

00:09:25.320 I don't know.

00:09:26.000 I never experienced it because I never tried.

00:09:29.200 But I also don't know really anyone at NBC Sports with that agenda who has been unleashed.

00:09:37.080 I think, you know, I just don't.

00:09:39.860 But I maybe I wasn't paying attention.

00:09:41.640 But I I do know I felt supported.

00:09:45.620 There were they let me go speak to police groups.

00:09:48.140 They let me speak on behalf of candidates in small settings.

00:09:51.280 You know, they just they just they didn't love the view and that appearance.

00:09:58.040 And you revealed that you were a conservative, basically kind of conservative, at least.

00:10:01.560 But they know that they know that about me.

00:10:03.940 Right.

00:10:04.180 I know.

00:10:04.640 But the public didn't necessarily.

00:10:06.580 It's different.

00:10:07.200 Yeah.

00:10:07.820 Yeah.

00:10:08.260 Right.

00:10:08.940 That's right.

00:10:09.920 Well, and that's the thing.

00:10:10.800 So, like, I have told the story before, but one time I was talking to my therapist and it was shortly after I left NBC and I had just like launched Instagram.

00:10:19.380 And I don't know how many followers I have on Instagram.

00:10:22.660 You know, I really just post dog photos on there.

00:10:25.060 And occasionally if I do something fun, I'll put something up there.

00:10:27.580 But I didn't have very many followers.

00:10:30.340 And literally at that moment, Jennifer Aniston had posted one photo and gotten like eight million followers in a day.

00:10:36.920 I'm like, my God, it's incredible.

00:10:38.060 And I was like, well, I think we've established I'm no Jennifer Aniston.

00:10:41.720 And I remember my it was a joke.

00:10:43.320 But my therapist was laughing because he's like, you talk about the most divisive issues in America for a living.

00:10:52.580 He's like, she does silly comedies with people who are literally called friends.

00:10:59.200 You know, so I get I get the hesitance, you know, the hesitancy about putting you out there with your political opinion.

00:11:05.400 I wish more news organizations would do that.

00:11:07.480 I wish more sports organizations would say that.

00:11:09.620 But it does seem to be especially dicey in the eyes of a lot of these execs if you're a conservative because they know instantly you're going to alienate the entire left.

00:11:19.440 The left will not tolerate a conservative newscaster.

00:11:21.980 The tolerant left will not tolerate conservatives.

00:11:27.000 And that's just something that I've learned the hard way.

00:11:29.960 And it's it's it's very frustrating.

00:11:32.480 But I think, see, to me, you talk about issues, but you are not a divisive character.

00:11:38.320 You're not a divisive human.

00:11:40.200 So to me, I'd much rather God love Jennifer Aniston.

00:11:44.680 I'd follow you over her any day.

00:11:46.840 If I had to.

00:11:48.040 No, that's the God's honest truth, because you're smart.

00:11:50.840 You're, you know, look, we talk about things that matter.

00:11:55.040 And that's what's that's what scares me right now is that not enough people are talking about things that matter.

00:12:02.400 And if you know, I'm amazed at just people that I talk to now and then how little they know about what's going on in the world, in this country, the things that really should be affecting them and opening their eyes.

00:12:17.760 And it's not happening and you go, it must be that the message isn't getting presented the right way or by the right people.

00:12:25.660 And so I guess I hope I'm not thinking too highly of myself.

00:12:29.960 But I do think of myself as sane and and someone who maybe can help convey the message.

00:12:35.440 Yes.

00:12:35.660 You're a great communicator.

00:12:37.220 I mean, I've watched you enough.

00:12:38.140 No, you're great at it.

00:12:39.440 And that's why you've done so well when the chips are down in like clutch moments.

00:12:42.860 And so when I remember the one I'm not a sports person, but that when the one coach collapsed on the field during the halftime, that made national news and you handled it so beautifully.

00:12:51.240 You didn't know what was going on.

00:12:52.680 It had a stroke, I think.

00:12:54.400 But anyway, that's you're a great communicator.

00:12:56.480 So sometimes we get wrapped up in our world of politics and think everybody's paying attention.

00:13:01.100 And what you're saying is kind of a good reminder that a lot of people aren't.

00:13:05.640 And the fabric of the country is being eroded bit by bit.

00:13:09.760 And you're right in the heartland.

00:13:11.420 I mean, at some point we have to talk about how a California girl got sucked into Minnesota.

00:13:15.460 I believe it was love.

00:13:16.720 It must have been deep, true love.

00:13:20.180 But that's that's a pretty blue state.

00:13:23.180 So, you know, do you think you can get through to people out there?

00:13:26.420 I think I it is a pretty blue state, but I think it's trending purple.

00:13:32.080 It's a really interesting state in that we have what's called the metro, Minneapolis, St.

00:13:36.540 Paul and the surrounding suburbs.

00:13:37.960 And then they have what they call out state, which is everybody else.

00:13:41.860 And I think that out state is primarily red country.

00:13:46.340 And I think that we're seeing more of it move into the metro because, look, we were right at the heart of the defund movement.

00:13:54.400 We were right at the heart of that.

00:13:56.460 The George Floyd thing happened right in my backyard.

00:13:59.860 And now initially there was that moment.

00:14:02.960 But now people are seeing carjackings.

00:14:06.080 They're getting scared.

00:14:07.300 They're not feeling as safe in the state of Minnesota as they used to feel.

00:14:11.420 And I think that's really hitting home.

00:14:13.840 So I like to think that we have a lot of persuadables.

00:14:18.840 I, you know, fingers crossed.

00:14:21.100 Mm hmm.

00:14:22.140 And what does this mean no more broadcasting?

00:14:24.480 Are you going to do the pot?

00:14:25.440 Now you should do the podcast.

00:14:26.680 Now you got you got to do something to keep your voice out there.

00:14:29.660 Yeah, that's that's the goal is to launch something here.

00:14:32.980 And there are many irons in the fire.

00:14:34.880 And I'm grateful for this opportunity because it lets me continue to get that message out that that's what I do want to do, that I want my voice to be out there.

00:14:42.640 But I and it's purely out of I remember someone sat me down once and said, there are three reasons people run for office.

00:14:51.160 Number one, they want power.

00:14:52.580 Number one, they want popularity or number two, they want popularity or number three, they really want to serve.

00:14:57.980 And I said, well, for me, it's I really want to serve.

00:15:00.600 I I'm a I'm a huge believer in the power of what this country is built on.

00:15:06.320 And I'm terrified for my kids and their kids and yours and everybody else's that, as you put it, the fabric is going to get torn apart to a point where we're not recognizable anymore.

00:15:17.480 And I believe there are enough people to save it, but also people are being silenced or afraid to speak out.

00:15:27.260 The number of friends I have that say, I don't want to talk politics.

00:15:31.120 You know, I don't want to say that.

00:15:32.560 I am afraid to say this on Facebook.

00:15:34.700 Yeah.

00:15:35.200 Fear to speak, fear to express yourself.

00:15:38.940 That's as un-American as it gets. 0.72

00:15:41.220 And I'm going to fight it every step of the way.

00:15:43.620 I love that.

00:15:44.360 I love that.

00:15:44.920 I can relate to this so fully.

00:15:46.660 I was on the couch for a long time after I left NBC, first licking wounds and then just being like, I don't know what I want to do.

00:15:52.960 I really don't don't want to go back and work for the man.

00:15:55.980 You know, I don't want to get myself in the same situation where I have some prick boss.

00:15:59.800 I just you know, I've done that.

00:16:02.060 And then the whole world exploded between covid and then George Floyd happened in May of 2020.

00:16:07.280 And I was like, I've got to get back out there.

00:16:09.400 I the lies that are being told about our country, about us, about like we we've got to push back.

00:16:16.060 And it was for me, too, the thing that in my own way got me off the sidelines.

00:16:21.440 Thank goodness.

00:16:23.260 I mean, your voice is so important.

00:16:25.420 And, you know, I can't tell you how many people were excited I was coming to talk to you.

00:16:30.160 Oh, I'm I'm honestly I'm so, so thrilled that you're partaking in this because we do need that pushback.

00:16:37.960 We absolutely do.

00:16:39.640 We can't see there are a lot of people who are afraid right now and that just breaks my heart.

00:16:45.200 And I'm just not one of them.

00:16:46.740 I'm not going to have to see.

00:16:48.180 I mean, you know, I don't fear it.

00:16:51.480 Throw me in there.

00:16:52.320 I'll take your barbs.

00:16:53.480 I'll take whatever.

00:16:54.400 I'll go on the view and take that audience booing me.

00:16:57.900 I'll do it because somewhere maybe I can affect one one person.

00:17:03.620 That's that's a start, you know.

00:17:06.120 So, yeah, wherever I am, wherever I land, whether it's in my the principal's office at my kid's school, because I think they're being taught something that I don't agree with.

00:17:16.160 I'm going to be there.

00:17:17.220 And now I have the time and the freedom to do that.

00:17:19.620 But I love it.

00:17:21.140 I want to see more of it.

00:17:22.000 I want to hear more of it.

00:17:23.080 I'm just looking for it.

00:17:24.080 Yes.

00:17:24.340 OK, we have a little bit of you on the view because I love this moment.

00:17:29.380 You're battling about Colin Kaepernick.

00:17:31.240 And unlike the ladies of the view, you actually knew what you were talking about. 0.97

00:17:35.900 Like they messed with the wrong person.

00:17:38.280 They're used to having some some shill on there. 0.98

00:17:40.860 It was like, well, I don't believe in kneeling.

00:17:43.060 And you were like, you know, and whatever you were like, let's go.

00:17:46.680 I've got my facts.

00:17:47.860 And here's just a little bit of that.

00:17:49.340 But the white owners have prevented him from doing it.

00:17:54.240 They've colluded from and they have the power to they have.

00:17:59.700 They have all the power to prevent him from doing the one thing that he loves.

00:18:04.680 If they believe he could win them a Super Bowl, he would be on a team right now.

00:18:08.420 I promise you that.

00:18:09.880 I promise you that.

00:18:11.420 And he lost everything because of the stand that he took.

00:18:14.080 And there is no owner in the NFL to this day that has the courage to take him back.

00:18:21.460 A lot of teams have tried him out.

00:18:24.020 I will tell you that.

00:18:24.720 I know my stuff, too, on this.

00:18:26.180 A lot of teams have tried him out.

00:18:27.820 And he didn't lose everything.

00:18:29.420 In fact, I would say he's gained a whole lot.

00:18:31.980 He is now a leader of a movement.

00:18:34.620 He's got a Netflix series.

00:18:36.360 He's got Nike endorsements.

00:18:37.920 He lost the one thing he wants to do.

00:18:39.720 Well, you know, I don't get to do what I want to do either.

00:18:43.420 And sometimes life just ain't fair.

00:18:45.600 I think we can all all of us can agree that there is probably a lot to this story.

00:18:50.360 We still don't know.

00:18:52.620 I'm not sure.

00:18:53.480 You're all going to groan at me.

00:18:54.840 OK, bring it on.

00:18:56.220 Bring it on.

00:18:56.680 People feel like you, honey.

00:18:59.020 So this is the moment at which you lost your potential role co-hosting The View because

00:19:03.180 you made everyone look dumb. 0.55

00:19:04.640 Well, I, you know, look, it was it was disheartening because I as much as they were saying, you

00:19:15.100 know, he lost the one thing he wants to do with his life.

00:19:17.700 Well, look, is everyone in America entitled to do the one thing that they want to do with

00:19:25.760 their life if that's becoming the star starting quarterback for an NFL team?

00:19:29.820 No, there are 32 guys out there who get that job and it's for a whole lot of reasons.

00:19:35.820 And it's not just whether or not they can throw a football down the field.

00:19:39.740 Look, Colin Kaepernick, they settled his lawsuit.

00:19:43.340 The guy that was in on it with him, Eric Reid, they settled with him, too.

00:19:47.340 He's still playing in the NFL, Eric Reid.

00:19:50.100 So to suggest that, you know, Colin's the old Colin lost out and he's never going to

00:19:57.160 play again.

00:19:58.000 Well, Colin made a lot of decisions about he did a tryout.

00:20:02.460 He said, come, come, come look at me, throw everyone.

00:20:04.940 I'm going to do this throwing demonstration.

00:20:07.260 You can all come scout me.

00:20:08.760 And then at the last minute, he moved the site of that.

00:20:12.480 Now they'll say, well, because he didn't want cameras there.

00:20:14.820 Well, these are decisions you have to make.

00:20:18.060 What is it you really want?

00:20:19.340 Do you not want cameras there or do you really want a legit shot at getting back into the

00:20:23.320 NFL, which is it that you want?

00:20:25.540 And you make those decisions.

00:20:26.740 And sometimes the way to getting where you want to go is is making some compromises.

00:20:33.240 I love the story of Amelia Earhart.

00:20:35.540 And the first time she was asked to get in a plane and become the first woman to to help

00:20:40.520 fly a plane, it was as the navigator, not as the pilot.

00:20:43.780 It was as the co-pilot.

00:20:45.520 And she could have been offended and said, no, no.

00:20:48.260 It's either all me or nothing.

00:20:50.020 Well, she didn't.

00:20:50.900 She said, this is an opportunity.

00:20:52.220 I'm going to do it.

00:20:53.260 She did it.

00:20:53.980 And now we all she's a household name. 0.99

00:20:55.980 And, you know, sadly, for terrible reasons.

00:20:58.680 But the point is, she saw her path.

00:21:02.740 You can't have everything your way in this life.

00:21:07.080 You work your way around and through the obstacles.

00:21:10.420 If he really, really wanted the one thing he wanted, Megan, in this life was to be a starting

00:21:16.940 quarterback in the NFL, he'd be one right now.

00:21:20.300 And, you know, given that he had the talent.

00:21:22.980 But he made some business decisions and they didn't necessarily.

00:21:27.560 And I think he knew what he was risking.

00:21:30.400 And I think that there are legitimate complaints about race in the NFL and everywhere else in

00:21:35.120 America.

00:21:35.700 But that's not why Colin Kaepernick's not in the NFL.

00:21:38.120 So it does make you think, like, if Tom Brady took some controversial stance on something

00:21:43.500 before he retired, they would still hire him.

00:21:46.400 I mean, like talent in the end wins out because they're capitalists.

00:21:50.600 They want to make money off of you.

00:21:52.020 They want a winning team.

00:21:53.940 It's exactly right.

00:21:55.200 And they'll spend a fortune to do it.

00:21:57.440 And just ask the highest paid athletes in the NFL.

00:22:00.680 It is about winning.

00:22:02.600 But I do know for a fact that teams talk to Colin Kaepernick.

00:22:06.920 They talk to him about because, really, at that point in his career,

00:22:12.140 backup was the only position that was available to him for a number of reasons.

00:22:17.880 He was a good quarterback.

00:22:19.280 He had a really good season the year they went to the Super Bowl.

00:22:22.360 He was not Tom Brady.

00:22:23.940 He was not Matthew Stafford.

00:22:25.300 He was not those guys.

00:22:27.660 Trust me.

00:22:28.120 I think if he were, if he had that kind of talent, he would have found his way onto a

00:22:33.300 roster because you're right.

00:22:34.560 They want to win.

00:22:35.300 But he also made that decision.

00:22:37.460 He made that decision that if I'm going to any team, all of this is coming along with

00:22:43.800 me.

00:22:44.520 If, you know, I've got to be able to do and say what I want.

00:22:47.780 And even if I'm a backup quarterback, I'm still going to, you know, do and say what I

00:22:52.280 want and maybe bring this along with me.

00:22:54.860 And I'll tell you this as well.

00:22:56.580 Teams don't necessarily want to bring all of that with you unless you're Tom Brady or Aaron

00:23:04.020 Rogers, you know, so it's not the same as like discriminating against him because he stood

00:23:10.860 up against racism.

00:23:12.020 It's are you going to be like a political activist looking to capitalize on every wrong

00:23:17.920 move?

00:23:18.360 A coach makes a player makes a fan makes like I, I can relate to this in a way.

00:23:24.000 I mean, when I, you know, got involved in sort of, I was sort of drafted into the Me

00:23:29.100 Too movement in a way.

00:23:30.460 It was never something I wanted to be affiliated with.

00:23:33.320 You know, it was like, I'm going to do the next right thing.

00:23:36.960 And before you know it, that led to a whole cascade of things happening.

00:23:41.040 But my point was, I didn't want to be affiliated with any movement.

00:23:44.220 I don't really like activism.

00:23:46.020 I just, it's not my thing.

00:23:48.140 But I understood in not backing Roger Ailes, I could never work again.

00:23:52.920 It was possible that I would never work again because all of our companies, for the most

00:23:56.280 part, are run by men.

00:23:57.260 And, you know, maybe they would look at me and say, she doesn't, she's not loyal to

00:24:01.100 the men who run these companies.

00:24:03.020 And therefore, I don't want.

00:24:03.980 So you make your own decisions, right?

00:24:05.680 That wouldn't have been illegal for somebody to do that to me to say, she's a headache. 0.71

00:24:09.980 Like, you know, she might turn on me.

00:24:11.520 I don't want.

00:24:11.980 I get it.

00:24:13.240 And by the way, if you're a shitbag, I might.

00:24:16.260 That's why I don't have a boss now.

00:24:20.440 Isn't that a beautiful thing?

00:24:21.940 I mean, we all make our own choices.

00:24:24.960 Choices.

00:24:26.160 Choices.

00:24:26.980 And you just put it so well.

00:24:29.620 I don't know that there's a whole lot more I can add to that.

00:24:31.780 But you are spot on that every player in the NFL comes with a set.

00:24:37.040 And there have been plenty of players speaking out against racism, which is a welcome thing

00:24:42.680 to see and hear.

00:24:43.980 But they've done it in a way that hasn't been detrimental to their team.

00:24:47.800 That's such a good point.

00:24:48.920 And you also you also pointed out, you know, it's tough to cry a tear for Colin Kaepernick

00:24:53.100 with his Nike deal.

00:24:54.800 And I mean, his Netflix deal.

00:24:56.420 It's like, could you please spare me?

00:24:58.600 Cry me a river.

00:24:59.980 Right.

00:25:01.360 Right.

00:25:01.640 Again, I think he's going to be financially just OK.

00:25:05.960 Yes.

00:25:06.360 I was Sonny Hostin's talking about him like he's homeless on the street.

00:25:09.100 Like, you know what?

00:25:09.840 He's good.

00:25:10.380 He clearly wants to do social activism.

00:25:12.200 He's doing it and he's getting paid tens of millions of dollars.

00:25:15.260 So move on to your next cause.

00:25:17.380 And we'll see if we feel sorry for that one.

00:25:19.720 All right.

00:25:19.900 Michelle Tafoya is amazing.

00:25:21.460 She's staying with us.

00:25:22.080 I'm going to squeeze in a break.

00:25:23.120 And then we have so much more to go over.

00:25:24.480 So don't go away.

00:25:26.200 All right, Michelle.

00:25:34.060 So I did watch the Super Bowl last night.

00:25:36.800 Unlike you, I was not on the 50 yard line, but I watched at home with my kids.

00:25:41.980 And it was so funny because, of course, my I have two boys and a girl and they were watching.

00:25:45.720 They were asking about the players.

00:25:46.580 And then you popped in.

00:25:47.600 I'm like, hey, I'm interviewing her tomorrow.

00:25:49.240 They're like, you are.

00:25:50.680 Oh, my gosh.

00:25:52.240 Suddenly you became the biggest star.

00:25:54.140 They were very excited for our exchange.

00:25:57.960 And then this moment happened and they were even more excited.

00:26:01.980 Here's soundbite one from last night.

00:26:03.840 Michelle interviewing Aaron Donald, the star defender of the Rams, after his big Super Bowl win.

00:26:10.080 What did you see on that last play that enabled you to do what you did and make that stop?

00:26:15.220 Strange, strange.

00:26:16.560 You know, one last play.

00:26:19.360 They'll be world champs.

00:26:20.420 Give it everything you got.

00:26:21.280 I found the way to get to them.

00:26:23.000 We made a play and we won.

00:26:24.000 That's all that matters.

00:26:26.800 You talked about the confetti, the feeling.

00:26:30.080 I know you're going to get a chance to hug that Lombardi trophy that you wanted to hug for so long.

00:26:35.840 How does this measure up to what you thought it might be like, Aaron?

00:26:39.180 It's the best feeling in the world, man.

00:26:41.640 God is great.

00:26:42.880 God is great.

00:26:43.820 I just, I'm lost the word.

00:26:45.860 I don't know what to say.

00:26:47.620 I don't know what to say.

00:26:48.760 This is a blessing.

00:26:49.740 This is a blessing.

00:26:50.900 It was a great moment.

00:26:51.960 And by the way, it's a great follow up because he had said moments earlier, I've dreamed of this.

00:26:56.140 I've dreamed of this.

00:26:57.500 And it seems like a simple question.

00:26:59.360 Like, how does it measure up?

00:27:00.320 But it's actually not.

00:27:01.100 It was a clever way to round back to it and to the emotion and bring us there again and get him to expand on it.

00:27:06.940 And that was like the moment of the night.

00:27:09.180 That's what you're looking for, just to make people at home feel something.

00:27:12.340 Yeah.

00:27:12.800 And he, I mean, I was feeling it from him.

00:27:15.560 He was sobbing by the time I got to him.

00:27:18.240 You're in this moment of chaos right after the game ends up.

00:27:22.000 You're getting Aaron Donald go.

00:27:23.320 And there are two full teams plus all their staffs and family and PR on the field.

00:27:29.020 And you're trying to find your guy.

00:27:31.440 And fortunately, I mean, I had help, obviously.

00:27:33.800 But you're desperately and you want to do it live.

00:27:37.180 So you're trying to get it immediately.

00:27:39.400 And by the time I got to him, he was just he was crying so hard.

00:27:42.960 It was just beautiful.

00:27:44.820 We had spent time with Aaron.

00:27:46.740 I mean, I've spent time with him over the years, just knowing what kind of competitor he is, what this meant to him.

00:27:52.560 And it's hard to explain because I think people think, you know, it's already so glamorous and so amazing to just be an NFL player.

00:28:03.380 There is a an enormous step that changes in your life or that you take in your life once you become a world champion.

00:28:12.980 It's something that no one can ever take away.

00:28:15.900 All your regrets are released because your career has meant it.

00:28:19.320 It's been worth it.

00:28:20.140 And I know that's what this was for Aaron.

00:28:23.120 And nobody works harder than that man.

00:28:26.040 And so to see him able to do it, to achieve that final play and then to be able to soak it in, it was it was really it was beautiful to watch.

00:28:35.580 All right. Now I'm getting emotional because I'm thinking about you and I'm thinking about that was your last Super Bowl.

00:28:40.300 Like that was a culminating moment for you, too.

00:28:43.140 I don't know why I'm feeling emotional about this, but I but like it was a big night for you, too.

00:28:47.820 And and to spend your last night reporting on the sidelines at the Super Bowl and celebrating whoever's win, probably in your view, although you're from California.

00:28:55.580 So maybe you like the Rams.

00:28:56.520 That must have been great.

00:28:58.840 Like your your colleagues in the booth giving you an emotional goodbye.

00:29:01.800 Do we have I think?

00:29:03.220 Yeah, we've got Al Michaels.

00:29:04.340 Here's Al Michaels.

00:29:05.040 This is SOT 16.

00:29:06.380 A couple of things.

00:29:07.060 Number one, Michelle Tafoya retiring from sportscasting.

00:29:09.940 Michelle, we love you.

00:29:11.480 You have been so much fun.

00:29:13.360 And we'll hear a lot more from her.

00:29:15.360 You and I don't know what the future holds, pal.

00:29:16.920 So, yeah, like, I mean, how many people were watching last night saw that moment?

00:29:22.060 You know, it's just like a moment.

00:29:23.120 But it's it means something.

00:29:25.520 It did.

00:29:27.020 But I'll tell you what you didn't see that really was.

00:29:31.820 Shocking and surprising to me.

00:29:34.260 So I finally was getting ready to leave the field.

00:29:37.320 And I said and I was I had a couple of people with me, but I stopped and I said, I should I should turn around and look at this field.

00:29:43.720 Just kind of because I hadn't been able to soak it in yet.

00:29:47.580 So I turn around.

00:29:48.920 I'm in the kind of right outside of a tunnel and I'm looking at the whole stadium is beautiful, by the way.

00:29:54.300 And I'm looking at it and I'm looking at the lights and I'm looking at this place where I've spent the last 25 years of my life as kind of like my workplace.

00:30:03.200 And that I would never stand right there again in that role with that kind of view and that kind of access and that kind of excitement and that kind of feeling.

00:30:16.560 And I lost it.

00:30:18.920 And I had been keeping it together all week.

00:30:21.620 I hadn't been thinking about it because I just had a job to do.

00:30:24.920 And I was looking forward to getting on with Meg and Kelly on Monday morning.

00:30:27.520 And I was just like, go, go, go.

00:30:29.860 And all of a sudden I just I lost it and I just started crying and I didn't want anyone to see it.

00:30:36.280 I'm just like going like this.

00:30:37.960 And but I didn't want to walk away still.

00:30:40.440 I wanted to just look.

00:30:41.500 And I said to myself, this is this is really weird and sad.

00:30:46.100 But I've got to just look at I got to so I got to look at this and not forget that this is what I've done for 25 years.

00:30:54.000 It's been a privilege.

00:30:55.980 It's been fun.

00:30:57.360 It's been hard.

00:30:59.220 This is the last view, Michelle.

00:31:00.860 Just take it in for another minute.

00:31:04.020 Yeah.

00:31:04.820 So that was that was when it all came crashing home as to I won't be standing on a field again anytime soon.

00:31:13.840 Meanwhile, the fans were like, Bengals fan.

00:31:22.400 Jeez.

00:31:23.400 Good Lord.

00:31:24.320 Save it for the sideline lady. 1.00

00:31:27.360 No, but I get it.

00:31:28.500 It would be emotional.

00:31:29.740 And I and I I think that's important to take stock is change while I totally believe in it.

00:31:35.000 I think, you know, you can't be willy nilly about it, but rush to change if you're feeling stale.

00:31:41.120 I like it.

00:31:41.740 It's always worked for me.

00:31:42.460 I don't understand those people who live in the same house for their entire life and like have the same job for their entire life.

00:31:47.620 Like I need more.

00:31:48.680 I need to mix it up more than that.

00:31:50.280 But that doesn't mean it's easy.

00:31:52.020 And the goodbye part before the new part is the hardest part of it.

00:31:56.620 Right.

00:31:57.060 Once you've made the decision, like the separation and the end of something, that's most the reason why most people don't do it.

00:32:03.880 But it's it's worth it in the end.

00:32:05.340 I I really believe it will be.

00:32:08.640 I've been thinking about this change for multiple years.

00:32:11.660 I originally gave notice to NBC, I think, after the twenty eighteen season.

00:32:16.620 I said twenty nineteen would be my last.

00:32:19.300 And then they said, could you just stay on till the Super Bowl and all kinds of machinations happened.

00:32:24.860 And and so here I am.

00:32:26.300 But I, you know, I wouldn't trade it.

00:32:28.620 Um, but it has been a long thought out change.

00:32:32.980 Uh, exactly what's going to come next.

00:32:35.660 Exactly.

00:32:36.420 Specifically.

00:32:37.460 I don't know.

00:32:38.340 But I like the start I'm having right here, right now.

00:32:41.000 Me, too.

00:32:41.760 Is it possible you could wind up on the ticket?

00:32:44.540 Like, is it?

00:32:46.360 They've asked and it's doubtful.

00:32:49.500 Um, look, in this first year off, I kind of want to take it at my own pace.

00:32:53.860 And that would not allow me to take it at my own pace.

00:32:56.440 I mean, I have to be just off and running eight, ten hour days.

00:32:59.680 And, you know, I, I don't think that would be putting my money where my mouth is as far

00:33:04.560 as my kids go.

00:33:06.080 How old are they now, Michelle?

00:33:07.520 They are sixteen and eight and thirteen.

00:33:10.080 And they don't really need me, but I kind of need them.

00:33:13.600 And I, I miss so much.

00:33:15.840 And, um, and, and I just, I want to make sure I'm at every baseball game and every soccer

00:33:21.420 game and every basketball game.

00:33:22.780 I want to be there.

00:33:24.200 I want to share that time with my husband.

00:33:26.000 And he's been just flying solo for so much of it.

00:33:29.640 And, um, and so, you know, I want us to find a new family footing.

00:33:35.000 Um, listen, it's tempting, uh, but I do feel like I'm, I can better effectuate change.

00:33:42.280 I think, um, in the short term, at least by just using my voice, you have time, 56 years

00:33:51.040 old.

00:33:51.300 I, I'm 51 and I laugh because I feel old sometimes.

00:33:54.940 And then I look at how they talk about the Supreme court nominees and they're like, she's

00:33:59.600 only 50.

00:34:00.220 I'm like, Oh, I'm good.

00:34:01.280 Yeah.

00:34:01.440 Just compare yourself to the Supreme court.

00:34:02.760 Oh, you're so good.

00:34:03.740 Yeah.

00:34:03.940 Like she could do 35 years.

00:34:05.280 I'm like, yeah, I feel so much better.

00:34:06.620 Plus 50 is the new 30 Megan. 0.91

00:34:09.740 So, you know, that's what Tony Robbins tells me.

00:34:12.020 All I have to do is have something called peptides and, uh, I'm going to live forever.

00:34:15.340 According to him, check, buy out his, buy his new book.

00:34:17.700 And you will too.

00:34:19.440 Speaking of which, um, my husband, Doug was out of town last night.

00:34:24.380 He texted me about the Superbowl show and said, I thought it was amazing.

00:34:27.820 And, uh, he said, best Superbowl show I've seen in years.

00:34:30.240 And I said, literally, my friend just texted me saying, if you like the Superbowl show, it's

00:34:34.960 time to get your colonoscopy suggesting it's for old people, Michelle. 0.75

00:34:41.000 I'm like, I'm concerned.

00:34:42.300 Cause I do like some of these artists.

00:34:44.060 They are more my era and yours too.

00:34:46.280 And Doug's too.

00:34:47.140 So what did you make of it?

00:34:48.280 Like, what was the buzz there about the big, the big show?

00:34:50.360 The buzz in the, the arena was like awesome.

00:34:54.140 And, um, it's, it's, you know what?

00:34:56.600 I'll tell you what I've done five Superbowls and every time there's a mixed reaction afterward.

00:35:02.000 There's one experience that people get inside the stadium and there's a completely different

00:35:06.460 experience people get watching at home.

00:35:08.540 But even as we left last night and all the texts are flying and everyone's looking at

00:35:12.940 Twitter and all the rest and the best Superbowl show ever halftime shows the best.

00:35:16.900 Uh, there were some people, I got texts this morning saying, I don't need to see men grabbing

00:35:22.140 themselves at halftime.

00:35:23.260 The NFL should be ashamed of itself.

00:35:25.040 So, you know, it's, uh, I, I, I was energized by it.

00:35:29.260 I enjoyed it.

00:35:30.240 I thought it was good.

00:35:31.440 Um, and I, I thought it crossed a lot of, uh, generations because some of that music is

00:35:38.180 transcendent and, uh, like my kids were so impressed.

00:35:41.460 Um, somebody, I think it was the, the New York times, I think it was referred to it

00:35:46.320 as oldies presenting old.

00:35:47.820 I'm like, oldies.

00:35:48.960 What?

00:35:49.540 That's bullshit.

00:35:51.040 That, that, that, that kind of gets past me.

00:35:54.080 I don't get that at all.

00:35:55.200 Cause I, you know, I, I mean, I, if they had gone any newer into some of the rap and R&B

00:36:01.220 that's out there, it wouldn't have been, we couldn't have televised it by the way.

00:36:05.080 That's exactly right.

00:36:05.740 Well, I, I was like you, I was like that old lady, like, um, well, your friend, I guess

00:36:10.600 I should, I was like, I did, I'm seeing too much.

00:36:12.520 I don't need to see the gyrating, you know, people watch this with their young kids.

00:36:15.960 And then I actually said, I actually said the line of, yeah, there's no melody.

00:36:21.840 You know, back when I was a kid, I mean, I've become my grandpa.

00:36:25.720 My music had a melody.

00:36:30.760 This is happening so much.

00:36:33.420 I know it's crazy.

00:36:34.740 It's, it's funny.

00:36:36.060 A little behind the scenes story.

00:36:38.200 So, um, after the game, I finally made my way back to what our little production hub.

00:36:43.380 It's actually quite large, but so Al and Chris were waiting there for me.

00:36:46.800 And then I saw this whole group amassing and there was Eminem, Mr. Mathers, and he is diminutive.

00:36:54.880 He's small.

00:36:55.840 I feel like a giant next to him, but he was waiting.

00:36:58.720 He loves, he's always loved Al Michaels, just thinks the world of Al Michaels.

00:37:02.340 And so they were talking and, and I was just sort of like peeking and, and Al said, Hey, uh, do you know Michelle?

00:37:09.040 And he brought me over and, and he looked at me, Eminem, and he goes, Oh shit, you're that woman. 1.00

00:37:14.620 And I was like, wow, you know who I am.

00:37:18.180 I mean, I was just, I was so floored, but, um, I mean, seriously, but I, I don't know.

00:37:24.980 You know, it, every year it never fails.

00:37:28.080 You're going to have people who hate it.

00:37:29.900 Yeah, that's right.

00:37:30.800 Well, one thing I didn't hate was, uh, there wasn't a mask in sight.

00:37:34.540 The mandate is still in place.

00:37:37.160 The Indoor California, I said to my assistant, I'm like, is the mask mandate lifted?

00:37:41.580 Like, no, it's not.

00:37:43.860 Might as well be.

00:37:44.580 Right?

00:37:45.040 Like there were more bare faces than masked.

00:37:48.280 I totally, totally, totally, totally.

00:37:50.720 And there are rumors that they're going to drop this mask mandate tomorrow here in California

00:37:55.140 or in Los Angeles.

00:37:55.960 I was thinking, you, if you do that, you're going to look so bad for mandating these masks

00:38:01.900 at the Superbowl.

00:38:02.560 I mean, it's going to be ridiculous, but by the way, nobody wore them.

00:38:06.380 And they said, you know, we're going to have people walking around enforcing and everyone's

00:38:09.960 going to get a free N95 when they walk in.

00:38:12.620 Guarantee you, by the way, I say it shouldn't guarantee, but I strongly suspect those N95s are 1.00

00:38:17.680 N95s were made in China because the one I was given was made in China. 0.74

00:38:21.600 So bravo.

00:38:23.160 But yeah, look at these pictures.

00:38:25.580 There's not one human in a mask.

00:38:27.660 These are all these celebrities.

00:38:28.900 Or the cards on their chin.

00:38:30.800 Right, exactly.

00:38:31.680 All these celebrities who are constantly lecturing America with the, there's not even pretending.

00:38:36.240 There's not even like the mask hanging from the ear the way some people do.

00:38:39.080 But forget the celebrities.

00:38:39.980 It was like all the California authorities from the governor to once again, the LA mayor.

00:38:44.460 I mean, it's their mandate.

00:38:45.960 And even they.

00:38:48.080 So Michael Brendan Doherty of the National Review, who I love, he was like, it's officially

00:38:51.800 the end of the pandemic.

00:38:52.740 It's over.

00:38:53.580 It sort of began with a sports moment.

00:38:55.520 Remember, there was a basketball player who had like touched all the microphones and he

00:38:58.820 got it and he made national news and it ended.

00:39:01.200 It ended officially last night when I mean, in the in the bluest state with the most restrictive

00:39:06.820 mask policies, everyone, including the officials who put them into place, blew them off entirely.

00:39:12.680 That's why people are so pissed off and sick of the authorities and sick of listening to

00:39:22.820 people who are have lost so much credibility in all this.

00:39:28.680 I think, Megan, that's the other scary thing we're enduring right now is where do we look

00:39:35.040 for true leadership and credibility?

00:39:37.480 Right now, I don't have a good answer for that.

00:39:40.700 So I say, OK, in our house, this is how we're going to do it.

00:39:44.260 I don't care what this is.

00:39:46.640 So everyone's kind of left on their own right now, which might be the best thing.

00:39:50.920 But eventually, where who are we going to trust?

00:39:54.540 Yeah, no, I mean, after this, like, truly, especially in California, do not wear a mask.

00:40:00.240 Like the thing that's infuriating is the children have no choice because they work, you know,

00:40:03.760 they go into school and these crazy teachers are like, put your mask on and they're little.

00:40:07.820 So they do it.

00:40:08.620 And they're you know, they have to be respectful of authority.

00:40:11.580 But we don't.

00:40:13.080 And especially in California, you like take it up with Governor Newsom.

00:40:16.520 Take it up with Mayor Garcetti.

00:40:17.920 I'm not wearing it.

00:40:18.880 Why should they?

00:40:20.040 Anyway, all right.

00:40:20.440 I have to pause.

00:40:21.040 I have to do one more break.

00:40:21.840 And then I'm coming back to Michelle DeFoy because there's still much more to discuss.

00:40:31.940 All right.

00:40:32.440 A weird question for you, but not really.

00:40:34.340 As a woman who's made it in the man's world, I mean, it's a world and there are a lot of 0.86

00:40:38.100 men in it, but they do tend to run sports and sports television.

00:40:42.780 What do you make of Joe Biden's decision to say I'm picking a black woman for the Supreme

00:40:47.660 Court?

00:40:48.100 I'm sure you got some feelings on this.

00:40:49.680 I do, too.

00:40:50.180 I'm really genuinely curious to know what you think.

00:40:52.980 If that was really what he wanted, go ahead and do it.

00:40:56.020 Don't announce it to the world.

00:40:57.320 Just do it.

00:40:58.240 And let us stand on the merits.

00:41:00.280 You didn't need to make that like your agenda.

00:41:03.800 Just just do it.

00:41:05.120 I just don't.

00:41:06.380 You know, I know there are credible women of color out there. 1.00

00:41:10.280 So go nominate one.

00:41:11.820 But don't after, you know, he kneecapped the choice before he named her to help himself.

00:41:17.440 It's awful.

00:41:18.640 I don't even get me started.

00:41:20.380 Yeah.

00:41:20.680 OK, good.

00:41:21.180 Because I because, you know, I get it.

00:41:22.660 And I know you've been saying I don't want to be known as the best women's sports reporter.

00:41:26.720 I want to be known as the best sports reporter.

00:41:28.120 And that's been the key to your success.

00:41:29.540 You why would you put these things in your way that are sort of made up constructs of I mean, yes, there are men and there are women, as you said.

00:41:40.540 But I don't go and battle just women in my industry. 1.00

00:41:43.580 I went and competed with everyone.

00:41:45.960 And I didn't think of myself and put my check this box.

00:41:49.080 I mean, if I could if I were going to check boxes, I'd be doing it all day.

00:41:52.100 Oh, I'm Hispanic with a little Irish blood.

00:41:54.080 And I'm brunette and I'm less than five foot eight.

00:41:57.160 So that's the group I'm going to compete with.

00:41:59.120 No, just go compete as a human being.

00:42:02.020 That's right.

00:42:02.620 OK, let me talk to you about you personally, because there's some interesting stuff in your background.

00:42:06.040 I could relate to your struggles with infertility because in my case, you know, I got married to my husband.

00:42:14.000 I had a starter marriage.

00:42:15.020 So then my real marriage to Doug didn't start until I was 37.

00:42:18.460 So I was kind of getting long in the tooth for the babies.

00:42:21.500 And I could relate to your frustration and trying to get pregnant and so on.

00:42:25.940 But I did want to circle to the part of you wound up you had you had one biological child who was just like a surprise after all your IVFs and miscarriages and some very tough times.

00:42:37.680 And then and that's the way it is.

00:42:39.440 Right.

00:42:39.680 As soon as you relax or give up, you know, right.

00:42:43.580 And then for your second child, you decided to adopt.

00:42:46.720 And I read that you said about your husband, your husband phrased it as now we get to adopt, not have to get to.

00:42:53.200 Correct.

00:42:54.280 That's it was one of the most freeing things he ever said to me.

00:42:58.420 I my husband's awesome.

00:43:00.020 And he said that now we get to adopt.

00:43:02.900 And and it's just been the greatest gift I've ever been given.

00:43:09.380 And I hope I do get to meet her mother face to face someday.

00:43:12.980 And if she wants to, we will do that because I want to thank this woman for giving me the greatest gift I've ever had the pleasure of having in my life.

00:43:21.660 And she just keeps on giving.

00:43:22.760 It's been amazing.

00:43:24.500 And Michelle, I talked to so many women who are so worried they don't want to use donor eggs or they don't want to adopt.

00:43:28.880 And they're like, you know, I always laugh because everybody thinks their genes are the best.

00:43:32.280 Like, oh, what if I get somebody else's, you know, and you're kind of looking at half of them like my that might not be such a bad thing.

00:43:37.300 You should maybe take somebody else's.

00:43:39.660 But you said the same thing.

00:43:41.460 My friends who are adoptive mothers have said, which is you told you forget it's that thing is a barrier to entry only.

00:43:49.520 You know, the fact that this was this baby was born to another woman.

00:43:53.640 They do become your child.

00:43:55.640 A hundred percent your child.

00:43:58.060 Totally and completely.

00:43:59.820 And whenever she calls me mommy, it's that much more special.

00:44:03.140 And even at 13, she's still calling me mommy.

00:44:05.780 That goes away.

00:44:07.060 And this is your child.

00:44:08.820 This is your charge.

00:44:09.760 This is your love.

00:44:10.700 This is.

00:44:11.440 And don't even get me started with my husband.

00:44:13.480 I mean, she's got him wrapped.

00:44:15.560 It it's and it is interesting.

00:44:18.560 Your own child is almost like a lab experiment.

00:44:21.080 Oh, that part's you.

00:44:22.040 And this part's me, you know.

00:44:23.200 And then this adoptive child, the things that she brings to our family that have nothing to do with my husband nor me are amazing.

00:44:33.020 And we love it.

00:44:33.980 Like she does not like chocolate.

00:44:35.900 So she's clearly biologically not ours.

00:44:38.460 You know, it's like little things like that.

00:44:40.680 She's a great athlete. 0.87

00:44:41.860 All these things.

00:44:42.840 And it's just it's so incredible to watch and help her grow.

00:44:46.780 And yet, if there's one piece of advice I could give, it's you will find your family somehow, some way.

00:44:54.380 Let it happen.

00:44:55.620 Because, oh, my God, I can't imagine my life without her.

00:44:59.260 So is that what happened?

00:45:00.800 The wonderful husband that she loves so much as well.

00:45:03.360 He pulled you to Minnesota because I truly I'm hung up on like who that was raised in California would move to Minnesota.

00:45:10.400 But well, the weather in California is so boring.

00:45:13.400 It's the same day after day.

00:45:14.920 I wanted a challenge.

00:45:15.820 No, honestly, I left California.

00:45:18.420 I was in Charlotte, North Carolina for my first job.

00:45:20.580 I wanted to leave there.

00:45:22.440 Minnesota offered me a chance to cover the Minnesota Vikings.

00:45:25.020 I wanted to cover the NFL.

00:45:26.900 And then I met my husband because honestly, Megan, when I first got to Minnesota, it was 30 below with wind chill.

00:45:34.180 And I what am I doing?

00:45:37.380 And then I saw the change of seasons.

00:45:40.120 And then I met my husband.

00:45:42.780 And, you know, it's turned into home.

00:45:45.080 It's crazy.

00:45:46.080 But there we are.

00:45:48.560 You know what?

00:45:49.140 He must be amazing in bed.

00:45:50.580 It's just good.

00:45:55.460 We'll talk later.

00:45:56.480 We'll have a drink sometime with you.

00:46:00.520 It's done.

00:46:01.640 I can't wait.

00:46:02.920 Michelle, please come back.

00:46:04.020 There's so many more things I wanted to get your opinion on.

00:46:06.540 You're a great talker, a great woman, a great professional.

00:46:10.220 You don't need it.

00:46:10.960 But good luck with all the next chapter.

00:46:13.540 I appreciate it.

00:46:14.500 And at the risk of sounding like I'm just blowing smoke here, you've been a big influence on my career and my decision making about all of this.

00:46:22.840 You're a phenomenal voice.

00:46:24.860 I'm so grateful for you in this space.

00:46:27.600 In this.

00:46:27.900 I hate that.

00:46:28.520 In this space.

00:46:29.480 In this arena.

00:46:30.780 Keep it going.

00:46:32.280 Oh, thank you.

00:46:33.160 Thank you.

00:46:33.600 I love that.

00:46:34.360 I appreciate it.

00:46:35.460 All right.

00:46:35.640 Lots of love to you and the fam.

00:46:37.660 You too.

00:46:39.220 OK, I want to tell the audience that up next we are bringing on Victor Davis Hanson and we're going to bring you what we're going to try to break down this rather complex story in terms you can understand, because it's if true, it's huge.

00:46:53.280 It could definitely result in criminal charges for a whole host of people.

00:46:57.100 And it's being completely blacked out by most in the mainstream media.

00:47:00.520 I mean, it is being ignored.

00:47:01.800 And trust me, if the shoe were on the other foot and and Donald Trump had been accused of spying on Hillary Clinton's winning White House campaign, it would dominate the news cycle everywhere.

00:47:13.240 But it's not.

00:47:14.480 We'll be right back.

00:47:15.200 Here to discuss the Clinton campaign's alleged spying on Donald Trump's campaign and on him while he was in the White House, as well as many other items in the news.

00:47:32.600 My pal Victor Davis Hanson, the Martin and E. Lee Anderson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution.

00:47:37.700 Victor, thank you for being back on.

00:47:39.620 What a day.

00:47:40.840 This Durham bombshell is significant.

00:47:45.200 Again, unconfirmed.

00:47:46.480 These are allegations and a report that he is getting ready to say that or is pursuing claims that the Clinton campaign attorneys paid a tech company to infiltrate Donald Trump's campaign headquarters, a Trump Tower and the executive office that he held in the White House.

00:48:08.380 His computers wanting to create a connection with Russia, hoping to find a connection with Russia, and if none existed, hoping to create a narrative that one nevertheless existed.

00:48:22.100 Just a little bit more.

00:48:23.340 This is the Daily Wire's Cabot Phillips did a good job explaining this today.

00:48:27.480 This goes back to a meeting that the Clinton campaign lawyer, Michael Sussman, had with the FBI back in 2016, two months before the election.

00:48:35.460 Sussman's been indicted for lying to the FBI, saying, I have no client.

00:48:38.820 I'm just here to give you information about Donald Trump's connection to Russia.

00:48:42.140 Meanwhile, it turns out he did have a connection.

00:48:43.600 He worked for the Hillary Clinton campaign.

00:48:45.060 Didn't disclose it.

00:48:45.820 So he's already been charged with that.

00:48:47.340 But more information appears to be coming out of Sussman.

00:48:49.940 Durham now says Sussman presented information to them and that Sussman was working with a tech executive to obtain this data from Trump in very sketchy ways that they infiltrated data from Trump's private residents during the campaign.

00:49:06.500 And then after the campaign hacked into hacked into the executive office, trying to dig up dirt on Trump and if none existed to create it.

00:49:16.780 So what do you make of this?

00:49:19.960 And, you know, the one layer deeper on the Durham investigation into what Hillary was up to when Trump was running and sitting as president?

00:49:28.660 Yeah, I think we go back to the times that it explains how audacious they were, because remember that Durham is just basically saying, well, you build them and you actually said alpha on your your charge that you charged.

00:49:42.240 You were working for Perkins Coe, and I guess you charged the DNC, who was being, you know, funded with the Hillary campaign campaign money.

00:49:52.160 So it's pretty evident that they felt that they were exempt from any scrutiny.

00:49:56.280 The other another really bothersome angle to that, Megan, is that the FBI seems to be almost in cahoots with the with the Clinton campaign, but because this was seated and the FBI was investigating.

00:50:09.080 And we know that the FBI at one time paid Christopher Steele as an informant, even though that wasn't their idea.

00:50:16.660 They were put on to Christopher Steele by people within the DNC or Perkins Coe via Glenn Simpson, etc.

00:50:24.560 So it also raises this question, and this is all in light of the Hunter Laptop and the going after James O'Keefe, that what is the FBI doing now?

00:50:33.580 It seems to be a retrieval or an auxiliary of the DNC and Democratic candidates.

00:50:38.600 That's bothersome.

00:50:40.580 And then the other thing is, Donald Trump, we all and I shouldn't say we all, but the country considered him unhinged when he said that they've been wiretapping me or putting wires.

00:50:51.100 And everybody said, what an archaic way of thinking.

00:50:53.920 He's paranoid.

00:50:55.040 And he apparently had been tipped off because, remember, he moved out of Trump Tower or he ceased communicating.

00:51:02.420 I went back just when I heard this story also, Megan, just a final thought.

00:51:07.160 And I was amazed at how many people, the New York Times especially, but also the Washington Post and major columnists that kept getting angry that this was not leading to a conviction or this was not being a scandal that would destroy the transition of Trump or even the presidency.

00:51:25.660 So nobody has come out and said, I'm sorry that we published accounts of this and we took the FBI and basically Mark Elias seeding the media.

00:51:36.620 Nobody's ever said it, just as they've never renounced Christopher Steele.

00:51:40.500 And I don't think they ever will either.

00:51:43.360 Correct.

00:51:44.000 They haven't.

00:51:44.880 They're still standing by him.

00:51:46.120 And even Adam Schiff is coming out and saying, well, you know, they'll deal with him in the court as appropriate.

00:51:51.160 But, you know, why should we have had had questions about him?

00:51:55.060 You know, he came forward, seemed like like a legitimate guy.

00:51:57.940 Really?

00:51:58.440 There were a lot of questions about him right from the get go, even to, you know, regular reporters.

00:52:03.340 Never mind if you're Adam Schiff.

00:52:04.960 So you raise a really interesting point.

00:52:07.160 If this was happening, if if what because what they seem to be alleging is that there was a contract with an outside tech firm to to run servers and monitor and or monitor servers.

00:52:20.280 That were being used inside the White House and that whoever this so-called unnamed tech executive is, instead of just doing that, actually started mining data and farming it off to some university researchers with the goal of finding dirt that would show Trump had a connection with Russia.

00:52:39.180 That was somehow illicit while he was the sitting president.

00:52:41.880 And so that whatever he kept can do it, kept doing that.

00:52:47.420 Now, the question is, if that were happening, wouldn't our intelligence officials have known about it?

00:52:53.500 Wouldn't the FBI know if that were happening to a sitting president?

00:52:56.840 Never mind prior when he was running, when it was just the campaign.

00:52:59.780 And why wouldn't they, Victor, have raised it with Trump, with the president at the time when it was going on?

00:53:09.940 Well, I think the answer to that, Megan, your second question is is found in something James Comey said when he met in a private conversation with the president of the United States as the director of the FBI.

00:53:20.600 And he assured the president that he was not the object of an ongoing FBI investigation, which he knew to be untrue, that he was.

00:53:28.860 And second, he went immediately out into his vehicle and used an FBI apparatus, a communications device, a pad, I guess, and then recorded it all.

00:53:38.920 And then subsequently, when he was fired, he leaked that.

00:53:42.000 So the FBI, for a variety of reasons, this is just one of the very minor ones, but for a variety of ongoing reasons, whether it's missing FBI phones during the Mueller investigation or Mueller staggering the ex-FBI head, staggering the dismissals of Stroke and Page so there didn't seem to be any connection between them.

00:54:04.620 They were reassigned rather than fired for their unprofessionalism or James Baker talking to sources and probably leaking it to Yahoo or other sources right before the 2016 election.

00:54:19.500 And then we have Kevin Clinesmith submitting a fraudulent doctored document.

00:54:24.600 So we could go on and on, but there's something existentially wrong with the FBI.

00:54:28.480 And I don't know if it's confined to the Washington echelon, but they seem to be an extension of the progressive movement or the DNC or whatever democratic administration is in power.

00:54:41.800 And they don't seem to, when we look at what they have done with Hunter Laptop, they had that in their possession.

00:54:47.300 They sat on it and they didn't come out because they were pressured because of the campaign.

00:54:52.500 The election was approaching in 2020, and then they kind of had more performance art with James O'Keefe, who hasn't been charged yet for all of the publicity that seems to have been provided to the New York Times that almost immediately aired that story.

00:55:07.680 So I don't know what to make of it because we all have respect for our investigatory agencies.

00:55:14.000 But I think it's a larger trend that all of us that are traditional, who have traditionally supported the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the Pentagon, they have lost the support of half the country.

00:55:27.420 And it's not just me, you know, pontificating.

00:55:30.260 If you look at the latest poll, the Pentagon, only 45% in a recent Reagan Library poll expressed confidence in the military.

00:55:37.860 When you look at the polls of the FBI, it's even more dismal.

00:55:40.500 And when you have people like James Comey, 245 times saying he can't remember while under oath or Andrew McCabe on three occasions lying under oath to federal investigators or John Brennan on two occasions lying under oath about the CIA tapping into Senate computers or that drone operations did not have any collateral damage or James Clapper lying under oath.

00:56:06.720 And he in fact, he said that I gave the least untruthful answer when he said the NSA doesn't spy on people or Adam Schiff, the same thing.

00:56:15.820 And so this is all a narrative that that we've lost confidence in what were very traditional American institutions.

00:56:24.420 This all appears in a John Durham motion in support of alleging conflicts of interest in the case.

00:56:29.320 So no one's been there haven't been new indictments handed down, but there absolutely could be, you know, Trump known for his hyperbole on a lot of issues may not be wrong when he says this is worse than Watergate.

00:56:43.020 I mean, if this pans out, if if she and her campaign were actively spying on the sitting president on his campaign for president, then on the sitting president and working to create dirt that would possibly bring him down, she definitely could be facing criminal charges.

00:57:01.660 She or whoever they can actually pin it on. And this would be an enormous, enormous, enormous ethical and legal breach.

00:57:08.860 We're not there yet, but that's what's being alleged. Essentially, we'll hear we'll see the names filled in.

00:57:13.720 But just by way of info, Victor, back in 2016, people are now pulling up her old tweets and it was October 31st, 2016, right before the election.

00:57:27.080 She tweets out computer science scientists have apparently uncovered a covert server linking the Trump organization to a Russian based bank.

00:57:38.600 Oh, which computer sciences are those, Hillary? Right. I mean, now we're getting a better picture.

00:57:44.740 Then she shared a statement from her campaigns, then senior policy advisor, Jake Sullivan.

00:57:48.800 He's now national security advisor. This guy saying as follows a couple of highlights from what he was saying.

00:57:53.260 They're stoking the fire. This is the point I'm going for.

00:57:56.240 This could be the most direct link yet between Donald Trump and Moscow.

00:57:59.920 Secret hotline may be the key to unlocking the mystery of Trump's ties to Russia.

00:58:05.100 It raises even more troubling questions in light of Russia's masterminding of hacking efforts that are clearly intended to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign.

00:58:13.420 Hello, pot, meat kettle. And here's the last one.

00:58:16.440 Can only assume federal authorities will now explore this direct connection.

00:58:20.200 Oh, really? You can only assume that can only assume federal authorities will now explore this direct connection between Trump and Russia as part of their existing probe into Russia's meddling in our elections.

00:58:30.320 Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign lawyer Sussman is in there telling the FBI, I've unearthed it.

00:58:35.300 This is the thing. You've got to look into it. No, I have no client.

00:58:38.400 It's not the Hillary Clinton campaign. I'm just a good citizen.

00:58:41.400 And now we know all this other stuff was happening behind the scenes.

00:58:44.120 This is this is criminal, Victor.

00:58:46.640 It is criminal. And it begs the question, why did Hillary Clinton have such confidence

00:58:52.060 that she could make these statements publicly when privately she knows she had some exposure?

00:58:57.880 I think the answer is that she had a series of Clintonites that were seated deeply within the Obama administration.

00:59:07.000 And we can see what Bruce Orr was doing at the time she was talking.

00:59:10.440 He was seating the dossier and talking to people in the Justice Department.

00:59:15.160 And Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton had been meeting on that tarmac and about what?

00:59:19.840 I don't know. Probably the Hillary Clinton email investigations that was kept quiet.

00:59:24.300 At the same time, Andrew McCabe was point man on the investigation while his wife was running for office in Virginia

00:59:31.640 and getting Clinton related PAC money from Terry McCall's PAC.

00:59:36.180 And the second thing was that this had been habitual for her, Megan.

00:59:40.340 Remember the Uranium One scandal where she and the State Department committee had pretty much allowed

00:59:45.960 20 percent of North American uranium to fall in the hands of Russia at a time when Bill Clinton had been given

00:59:53.620 five hundred thousand dollars to speak on just one occasion in Moscow.

00:59:58.460 And when there were a lot of multimillion dollar gifts to the Clinton administration from Russian related sources.

01:00:04.520 And then we had, of course, the missing email scandal.

01:00:08.280 And then we had the Steele dossier scandal.

01:00:11.380 And I don't know whether what to make of it.

01:00:14.140 Maybe you do. And it's either one of two things that this repeated violation of ethical and probably legal statutes.

01:00:21.980 Then it embolds her. And she says, well, if they didn't get me for that, then they won't get me for this.

01:00:26.440 And they won't get me for this. And she just becomes more emboldened.

01:00:29.060 Or it starts to erode, erode her credibility.

01:00:32.440 And at some point, people are so embarrassed.

01:00:35.000 They say, this can't go on.

01:00:36.260 She's just so fawning the law that let's let's stop it. 1.00

01:00:40.120 I don't know what will happen.

01:00:41.220 But no one, no other political figure in our generation has so deliberately and ostentatiously broken the law, in my opinion.

01:00:49.320 You know, they say, and I've talked to convicted felons about this, crossing the first ethical line is the hardest.

01:00:56.400 And once you've done that, you're pretty much good.

01:00:59.440 You know, it's sort of once you sort of abandon the commitment to following an ethical code.

01:01:04.160 And that's the biggest move.

01:01:05.760 And then you're on the other side and it's a party.

01:01:08.880 You know, it's like whatever you want.

01:01:10.740 I think you're right.

01:01:12.580 Especially when she said, I mean, she went around for most of 2016 suggesting that Donald Trump, I shouldn't say suggesting, explicitly saying Donald Trump was not legitimately elected.

01:01:23.840 They had all of those people, celebrities, grade B celebrities, making those commercials to reject the electors and have them defy their constitutional duty and reject Trump.

01:01:34.120 And then almost immediately she said she was part of the resistance, she said.

01:01:41.020 And then when Joe Biden, in the closing days of the campaign, she suggested to him not to accept the results of the election if he lost.

01:01:51.040 And then she, of course, during Trump's administration, said he was illegitimately elected.

01:01:54.640 What I'm getting at is that there's this psychological mechanism of projection.

01:01:59.340 She seems to project Russian collusion when she's using Russian-related sources herself.

01:02:05.220 She seems to suggest that it's dishonest, and it is, and it's probably illegitimate to question a sanctioned U.S. election.

01:02:13.780 But that's what she does all the time, sort of like Stacey Abrams. 1.00

01:02:17.960 And then finally, you know, we all feel that Trump goes over the top.

01:02:23.160 He's paranoid.

01:02:24.000 He makes these outlandish statements.

01:02:26.520 But if you or I or any of us in our own profession had been subject to what he was,

01:02:31.820 subject to where they tried to destroy his campaign by the use of a fake Russian-related dossier

01:02:38.900 and a discredited British spy who's not supposed as a foreign national to participate,

01:02:44.240 and then Hillary Clinton through three firewalls, the DNC, Perkins Coie, and GPS was funneling dirt against Trump. 1.00

01:02:52.660 And they tapped Michael Flynn's communications, and we're going to charge him with archaic statues that somehow he was communicating during the transition with foreign leaders, which they all do.

01:03:04.300 And then we went right into Mueller for 22 months, found nothing, and then we went into Ukraine.

01:03:09.800 And in light of what's happened to Ukraine and what's in light of what the Biden family revelations are about Ukraine, that first impeachment seemed very dubious.

01:03:19.820 So I don't think any president has been subject to such an array of illicit amount of attacks as Trump.

01:03:27.240 But because he's so controversial himself, he doesn't benefit from sympathy that's accorded to someone that's been on the receiving end of such illegal activity.

01:03:37.560 You know, I'm thinking right now of the election fraud claims, none of which he was able to sustain in court.

01:03:46.220 But a fair amount of Republicans believe that the election was stolen.

01:03:50.700 And this story kind of helps you understand how they got there.

01:03:54.660 If you're paying attention to anything that's not mainstream, because the mainstream buries this story, and any story is about Durham, or they mock Durham.

01:04:01.900 Um, you, you think it's a joke, you think it's made up, you don't think Hillary spied on Donald at all.

01:04:08.800 And you think he's some sort of weird conspiracy theorist who whenever anything bad happens to him, he just blames, you know, sort of some boogeyman, whether it's Hillary or somebody else or Comey.

01:04:17.200 But these things actually happened.

01:04:20.120 She, her campaign, I mean, there's an indictment alleging that her campaign was up to no good and trying to create this connection.

01:04:26.920 Even before today, we knew that, um, not to mention all the things you listed, Carter Page ruining his life and so on.

01:04:32.680 And then you get to the election and Trump is saying, no, I'm telling you that they stole it.

01:04:36.940 And a lot of these people who have seen him proven right time and time again and been told by the media, don't be so stupid, you know, there's no way, are like, we're not listening to you anymore.

01:04:51.620 Yeah. And that's not your impression or my impression.

01:04:55.440 Remember that notorious Time Magazine article where they were bragging that Martin Zuckerberg had injected $419 million in preselected precincts and swing states.

01:05:06.340 And they really absorbed the role and the job of state registrar employees.

01:05:12.380 They kind of took it over and they added more mailboxes.

01:05:15.600 They went out and harvested votes.

01:05:16.900 But the point of that article was they use, they use the word conspiracy as in good conspiracy.

01:05:22.960 We had a good conspiracy of changing the election laws in key states, A.

01:05:27.340 And then they said, B, we injected multimillion dollars in swing state precincts.

01:05:33.260 And what I thought was the most disturbing was they said that we were able to modulate the demonstrations, i.e.

01:05:40.800 And Tifa and BLM all of a sudden in August and September and October started to taper off that 120 days.

01:05:47.760 That was so it was really getting the middle class swing voter very upset.

01:05:52.220 And they admitted they admitted in kind of a braggadocio article that this is what they were doing.

01:05:57.660 And yet if anybody on the right or center had written that article, they would have been called a conspiracist.

01:06:03.580 But they were so arrogant and haughty after the Biden win.

01:06:07.000 They were they were bragging how they just manipulated with the help of money.

01:06:12.000 And they cited people in the street, demonstrators and the CEOs.

01:06:16.880 And it's amazing because I used to consume my information and say, all right, well, I know where not to go.

01:06:23.000 You know, I'm not going to go on Reddit to get my info as a news person.

01:06:25.980 And I'm not going to I'm going to take in sources from the far left and the far right and the center left and the center right and just sort of make up my own mind about where the truth is.

01:06:33.900 And now it's almost as if I'm getting to the point where I feel like I need to avoid the mainstream altogether.

01:06:39.880 It's just they look at YouTube as though it's full of disinformation.

01:06:43.880 I look at them that way.

01:06:45.140 Yeah, I do, too.

01:06:47.640 I go back to 2016 when Trump got the nomination and then during the campaign and right after the election of 2016, Jim Rutenberg of The New York Times, Jorge Ramos of Univision, Christian Amon Forbes, CNN.

01:07:02.720 And they all had the same narrative that traditional journalism could no longer sustain itself because Donald Trump posed such an existential threat to the election process, to global warming, to the border.

01:07:18.980 And all of them had a different take, but they had the same conclusion that journalists must be activists.

01:07:23.960 And that was replicated by the ACLU said the same thing almost.

01:07:27.180 And so we entered a new era of journalism that they were going to be activists.

01:07:31.840 And the data showed that.

01:07:33.020 Remember, the Shorenstein Center at Harvard in the first 90 days said that the mainstream media, as well as cable news, was 93 percent negative of the Trump administration.

01:07:42.540 They'd never seen anything approximating that.

01:07:45.060 So I think a lot of people just said the media by choice, and you can see it with CNN especially, its implosion, decided to be an arm of the progressive movement.

01:07:55.060 And they kind of turned off.

01:07:57.420 And it's disturbing because, you know, as I get older, my 68 years old, and all of these institutions that we all used to think were apolitical, the corporation, Wall Street, social media, Silicon Valley, K-12.

01:08:14.720 We knew the university was, but entertainment, Hollywood, they've all become biased in the sense that they don't believe because they think their ends are so noble or morally superior to everybody that any means necessary, even if it disrupts their professional code, it's okay and it's justified.

01:08:34.980 There's not going to be anybody who apologizes about this Alphabank episode, just like Christopher Steele is unrepentant.

01:08:45.080 So is Marco Lourdes.

01:08:45.460 No, they just bury it.

01:08:46.340 They bury it and it goes away unless you seek out alternative media, unless you turn off CNN and try to find yourself a fox, which most Democrats, they are watching it, but sort of the hardcore believers, maybe not.

01:08:59.760 And so the people who need to get the information about what she did, allegedly, aren't getting it.

01:09:05.760 Okay, there's a lot more to go over.

01:09:07.800 I've got to talk to you about your piece, Our Elite is No Elite at All.

01:09:12.660 I was thinking about it last night as I watched sort of the crowd shots at the Super Bowl and who's who of, you know, celebrity and political culture.

01:09:20.360 And you've got to hear what Victor Davis Hanson has to say on that.

01:09:23.180 Don't go away.

01:09:23.860 That's up next.

01:09:29.760 So, Victor, I'm looking at sort of the collection of, you know, our betters last night at the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl halftime show.

01:09:39.720 And I'm thinking, okay, this is this is the so-called elite.

01:09:42.140 This is the who's who of Hollywood and sports and so on.

01:09:45.980 It's like, okay, half the fans in the audience, whatever, Ben Affleck and so on, have had problems so bad they made national news for weeks.

01:09:55.360 You know, alcoholic cheating, serial cheating on the wife.

01:09:59.300 And then they got these singers out there who are celebrated, who have written songs at a time where we're seeing record murders of police celebrating cop killings.

01:10:10.120 I mean, you know, people accused of felonies left and right.

01:10:12.920 I'm thinking, okay, I don't to me, they don't feel that elite, but I guess I'm supposed to listen to these people.

01:10:17.660 Well, it's fine to sing and to act and for me to sort of take in the music and take in the acting, but the society wants us to believe they're more than that and treats them like they're more than that.

01:10:27.760 And you had a great piece about how the elites aren't.

01:10:31.760 What are your thoughts?

01:10:32.820 Well, I think there's two issues here, Megan.

01:10:34.620 There's what you and I feel about it.

01:10:36.580 And we have a definite, maybe traditional point of view.

01:10:39.480 So when we see Dr. Dre go up there and mention in his lyrics, anti-police, and I don't know if Kendrick Lamar said it or not, I couldn't tell, but he had the don't hate the popo or something, the police.

01:10:52.680 And then you have a record number of police killed and you're banning people like Kate Smith singing God Bless America.

01:10:58.400 There's obviously a point of view that the counterculture or people who have, they have gripes against the origins or the progression or the current state of America.

01:11:11.580 They don't like it.

01:11:12.560 Apparently they don't like what it is and this is an avenue.

01:11:15.120 But what's different is this was a national celebration, whether we like it or not, the Super Bowl is sort of a national celebration of Americana.

01:11:23.020 And yet for these performers and the people that you mentioned to have such a negative or not a very impressive record themselves, that's one thing.

01:11:33.240 And then there's also an abstract standard.

01:11:36.460 When we look at all of these people and we say, okay, let's see what this generation that calls itself an elite has done.

01:11:43.880 When we look at the Oscars today and we look at qualities of films in the 40s and 50s and we look at comic books or Marvel comic book remakes, or we look at hip hop compared to, I don't know, jazz or folk music.

01:12:00.180 Or we look at this generation's, I don't know, high speed rail in California versus the construction of the Hoover Dam.

01:12:08.140 Or when I look at the university curriculum, which I was a part of for 40 years, and I see that today's people at places like Stanford University have no idea who Dante is.

01:12:20.080 They don't know.

01:12:20.760 If you ask him what Plato wrote, they wouldn't know.

01:12:23.500 And then I look at scholarship and the quality.

01:12:26.020 I don't see any improvement, and yet it's juxtaposed to this self-important, arrogant view that they're somehow path breakers and they've created this wonderful new America.

01:12:37.000 And then this is all aside, Megan, we're looking at the national news, and we've had the greatest, this generation gave us the greatest humiliation since 1975 on the rooftop of Saigon and Kabul. 0.89

01:12:50.740 There is no border.

01:12:51.940 It's not that it's porous.

01:12:52.920 They just arbitrarily decided to violate federal law.

01:12:56.520 We've had the highest inflation in 40 years.

01:12:59.320 We're $30 trillion now in debt.

01:13:01.620 We're printing money at an astronomical rate.

01:13:05.340 And we were the world's greatest oil and gas producer just two years ago, and now we're not.

01:13:11.220 We're going down.

01:13:11.980 Why we're begging the Saudis and Russians to make up the slack. 1.00

01:13:15.620 So I don't see anything to be so proud about.

01:13:17.860 That's what I'm getting at.

01:13:18.800 No, you make a great point because you take aim at, you know, the Kardashians, their elites.

01:13:24.320 They've reached this by merchandising and popularizing larger than normal posteriors, you write, posting selfies of their ample boobs and butts.

01:13:31.960 That's amazing.

01:13:32.600 I love that.

01:13:33.160 But then you point out that the brilliant Thomas Sowell or Shelby Steele, they're not elites.

01:13:38.580 Instead, Ibram Kendi and Joy Reid, they are, right?

01:13:41.420 The juxtaposition, it all comes down to politics.

01:13:46.220 What are your politics?

01:13:47.020 And that's why people like Michelle Tafoya do need to be careful about speaking out about their conservative values because these industries will punish her where they wouldn't punish somebody who is necessarily going, you know, equally left. 1.00

01:14:01.400 Like center left, maybe far left, they'd punish, but they would never punish center left.

01:14:06.660 Yeah, I think that's a good point.

01:14:07.760 The arts by nature and academia have always been left center.

01:14:11.760 But what's different now is they have projected the idea that they are in control.

01:14:17.300 And this is the mainstream, even though there's no there's not very much popular support.

01:14:20.800 And most people don't have an ideology, the 80 percent in the middle, but they react to perceived momentum or pressure.

01:14:28.320 And they want to be part of a winning team, sort of like no fans when the 49ers are 0 and 10 and pack stadiums when they're 10 and 0.

01:14:37.200 But the left has created this illusion that they control all these institutions and therefore the majority of America are with them.

01:14:43.480 And so I think it's very incumbent upon people to keep trying to remind America that they don't have popular support and that they have an agenda that's by any abstract measure, empirical standard is unsustainable.

01:14:55.900 It just won't work.

01:14:57.040 You can't have a country when the elites don't believe in it.

01:15:00.220 They don't think it's better than the alternative.

01:15:01.840 They always look at the sum total of what is wrong with America, and that becomes America rather than incidental to a great nation.

01:15:10.200 So I think it's I think the midterms, we always say these are the most important midterms.

01:15:14.740 Usually they're not.

01:15:15.500 But if there is a if there is a referendum on all of this and is a large Republican victory, not that I'm trying to be a megaphone for the Republicans, I think it will have a profound effect.

01:15:28.900 It will be sort of like the McGovern era came to a terrible close and then people started pointing fingers and then the Democratic Party went to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and went back.

01:15:40.340 But I think they have to have a political rebuke or this will continue.

01:15:45.900 Following up on that, I did read you're a registered independent, which I am as well.

01:15:51.200 Why is that?

01:15:51.920 Because some people might be surprised you're not a Republican.

01:15:54.260 You know, I grew up in a Democratic household and I'm speaking from this farm that was been in my family since 1870 house right where I'm speaking as 150 years old.

01:16:06.860 And we were all agrarian, small farmers.

01:16:09.860 My grandparents didn't go to college.

01:16:12.080 And it was idea of this is a great country.

01:16:14.600 The Democratic Party gave us Social Security.

01:16:16.720 I had an aunt that was bedridden and she lived here for 70 years and had Social Security disability.

01:16:23.300 When she got that, that was a wonderful thing.

01:16:25.840 And it was the idea that the little guy, the middle class, was the backbone of America.

01:16:31.320 And they felt fairly or not that the Republican Party was easily caricatured as golfers, you know, were wealthy, the 1%, etc.

01:16:39.940 And then, so I was a Democrat.

01:16:43.920 And then I saw what we have been talking about, that the Democratic Party is becoming really a party of the mega rich or the upper, upper middle class and the very poor.

01:16:53.980 And that the middle class now is gravitated toward the Republicans of all different races.

01:16:59.100 I think that's starting.

01:17:00.100 So I guess that's, it was tradition or habit that I didn't register as Republican.

01:17:06.220 But there were certain things, I'll be candid, a little bit candid here, during the Bush years, and I don't know how to say it, but in the business that I got into writing, there were a certain type of Republican pundit, intellectual, that was condescending to people.

01:17:24.640 And I felt they didn't have a familiarity with the muscular classes.

01:17:27.880 They didn't get out of New York or Washington.

01:17:29.880 And they always were talking about, if we just had capital gains, if we can just privatize Social Security without ever having people that their lifeblood was Social Security.

01:17:40.300 So even though I was in some ways more conservative than, especially on the border, they were always telling, I got attacked from all these Republicans.

01:17:47.240 Let the market adjudicate the border.

01:17:49.440 When it gets down to $2 an hour, they won't come.

01:17:51.520 But so I just thought that I got kind of tired of the Republicans.

01:17:58.060 And then, you know, Trump, everybody makes fun.

01:18:00.840 But he did bring a nationalist populist flavor to traditionalism and said the middle class, when he started using the word our, our farmers, our workers, I thought that was, you know, for all of the criticism of him, there is a movement in the Republican Party to reflect the middle class.

01:18:17.680 And I think that I approved that.

01:18:21.660 But I didn't feel comfortable with traditional Romneyism or McCainism.

01:18:26.520 I just, I don't know.

01:18:27.660 The Bushes, I liked them.

01:18:28.920 But I just felt that they were not, they weren't part of the world that I see here in southwestern Fresno County.

01:18:36.060 And yet the left had gone on hinge.

01:18:37.920 So I didn't know where to go.

01:18:39.100 So I just stayed an independent.

01:18:40.300 Well, I like that.

01:18:41.640 Independent is, you'll make up your mind on a case-by-case basis.

01:18:45.120 You're not, you don't have to subscribe to anything.

01:18:46.500 You know what your own worldview is.

01:18:49.160 When you're talking about the difference between the muscular class, I like that, and the so-called elites, I was thinking about the crime rates.

01:18:55.680 Because, you know, time and time again, we see these politicians who live in gated neighborhoods push for these soft-on-crime DAs, not just politicians, George Soros.

01:19:04.980 He's not living in a crappy neighborhood.

01:19:07.000 He's got homes all over the world, and they're amazing.

01:19:09.720 Getting soft-on-crime DAs like Alvin Bragg elected in Manhattan, where the crime rate continues to spiral.

01:19:16.160 Ours is not the only city.

01:19:17.460 I just mentioned it because it's closest to me, and I've been there for, you know, over almost 20 years until recently.

01:19:22.300 And there is a horrific case in the news today.

01:19:28.040 On Friday, we ended the show with this horrific case of, oh gosh, it was another terrible crime where this man came up behind this woman with a baseball bat, a homeless, crazed man, and just swung.

01:19:39.700 It was out of Seattle, swung at her head like it was a baseball coming at him, and cracked her skull, and she went to the hospital.

01:19:45.660 That now we have something, not totally similar, but another homeless, deranged guy, that's what the papers tell me, in New York.

01:19:55.620 The New York Post has exclusive video of it, which, well, it's not of the crime.

01:19:59.360 It's of the guy following this woman.

01:20:01.640 She was, her name is Christina Yuna Lee, age 35, New York-based creative marketing producer.

01:20:07.140 His name is Asamad Nash, age 25, homeless career criminal.

01:20:11.020 That's how he's described.

01:20:12.480 The videotape we're showing, for those who watch it on YouTube, is he's following her.

01:20:16.260 She gets into her, I don't know how many floors, six-floor walk-up in Chinatown. 1.00

01:20:21.020 This is not a rich woman. 0.77

01:20:22.920 He lays in wait.

01:20:24.460 He follows her.

01:20:26.400 Slowly, he's following her behind and sort of waiting for her to take her next move, so she doesn't see him following her up stairway after stairway.

01:20:34.040 And then she, when she opens the door to her own apartment, he manages to follow her in and stabs her to death repeatedly.

01:20:42.280 It's horrific.

01:20:43.580 And the landlord of the building says, we have Alvin Bragg to thank this guy.

01:20:48.660 He was out on no bail on a crime he had just committed because this DA doesn't believe in bail and doesn't believe in locking people up.

01:20:58.980 I mean, even in a lot of the serious cases, never mind the misdemeanors, and I think the one that he was locked up on wasn't one of the ones that Bragg will lock you up for.

01:21:07.600 What do you make of it?

01:21:09.300 Well, I mean, deterrence makes the world go round.

01:21:12.980 And after the George Floyd death, there became the dominant narrative, which was false, that the police routinely and systematically and serially shoot unarmed black people.

01:21:24.260 That was not true.

01:21:25.860 In fact, of the 11 million arrests per year, African-Americans that come in custody of that group of 11 million people are no more likely to be shot by police than our other groups of the 11 million that are arrested.

01:21:40.260 And so, but that was the narrative.

01:21:41.400 And so, in reaction and that hysteria of that looting and protesting, and we had 35 deaths, $2 billion in property damage, I think there were almost 2,000 police officers injured.

01:21:56.200 There are these narratives of defund the police and the Sorrells-funded DAs, especially in San Francisco and Los Angeles, but also other where it's St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago.

01:22:06.500 And out of that conundrum, we got no deterrence, so that the criminal, in a cost-of-benefit analysis, decided that if he was going to commit a crime, there was very little likelihood that he was going to be arrested.

01:22:19.540 If he were going to be arrested, very little likelihood he was going to be put behind bars awaiting indictment.

01:22:26.360 And if he was indicted, he was probably going to be found innocent or charges dropped.

01:22:31.600 If he was convicted, there was very little likelihood that he was going to jail for traditional sentencing.

01:22:38.460 And out of that step-by-step analysis, and people that I know of commit crimes, I know some of them, they're very bright people, some of them.

01:22:45.500 They just decided that the chances were that it was much more lucrative to hurt or maim, or whether that's defined in material or psychological or satanic terms, whatever term we use, than face punishment.

01:22:58.740 And we have no deterrence now.

01:23:00.980 And you can't even talk about crime because it's been fused with the whole BLM woke movement. 0.76

01:23:08.080 Yes.

01:23:08.280 So I know a lot of Asian American people will write me and they'll say to me, or call me, and they'll say, why don't you write that in the big cities, that the African American male demographic is committing these crimes against Asians at a greater propensity than their 6 or 7% of the population.

01:23:29.000 And indeed, the FBI statistics show that in terms of hate crimes, the last year we had it.

01:23:35.420 But you can't talk about that.

01:23:37.160 In fact, I've given a lot of interviews to Chinese language, Taiwanese groups, and this is a big hot topic in that community, that African American males are committing anti-Asian hate crimes at a record level that is not proportionate to their demographic percentages.

01:23:58.000 And yet no one can talk about it.

01:24:00.120 In fact, they talk the opposite.

01:24:01.920 They just say hate crime.

01:24:03.300 And it's the same thing in universities right now, Megan, that we have something called the Clery Act, that because of a tragic death a few years ago, the federal government passed a law that said anybody on a campus that was a suspect or had a criminal record or came in contact, the campus police had to report any crime, any suspect.

01:24:24.240 And they had to give a full description of the suspect.

01:24:28.200 That simply disappeared, that noncompliance.

01:24:30.580 In fact, the Trump administration fined universities several million dollars that they were deliberately.

01:24:35.580 And so when I get things today, and I get them almost daily because I'm an emeritus from the CSU system and I work at Stanford University, if we had gone back two years ago, we would have said bike stolen or gun used or shots fired.

01:24:51.460 And witnesses said the suspect, and they would describe the suspect very clearly, clothes worn, ethnic background, male or female, et cetera.

01:25:00.540 Now they just say suspect, description, unknown.

01:25:05.400 No, we've seen that in the national media and the New York Times.

01:25:07.600 And I think your point is that I think if I understand what you're saying, and I agree entirely, is they have weighed in and decided that the safety, in this case, of a co-ed who's may have walked across a campus at night is not as important as virtue signaling that they don't want to be appearing to inordinately arrest somebody or demonize somebody of a particular race.

01:25:30.820 And therefore, they're erring on that side, and they don't really care about the other people.

01:25:35.700 Well, I mean, that's what I'm worried about.

01:25:38.440 To your point, too, that the woman, the Asian woman who was shoved in front of the New York City oncoming subway train and, you know, to her death, she was shoved by a black homeless man.

01:25:48.380 And the New York Times blacked out much of his history of crime and wasn't showing his picture.

01:25:58.180 You know, they don't talk about the race and they don't show the picture because they're trying to sort of snuff out that dynamic where, you know, very well that if it had been, you know, a white man committing a similar crime on a person of color or anybody, you know, with some sort of more minority cultural background, they would have highlighted it.

01:26:14.500 Right.

01:26:14.620 This is this appears to be policy for them.

01:26:17.400 And I realize it's it's you you cross a line when you just gratuitously put up every criminal accused of random crime and just keep saying, and this is a black person and this is a that's misleading to a lot of white people commit crime, too.

01:26:29.880 But this is a new dynamic, this black on Asian hate crime problem. 0.94

01:26:34.980 And we do no one any favors by ignoring it.

01:26:37.760 I mean, it's we've seen a pattern with respect to it.

01:26:40.200 And as you point out, the FBI has, too.

01:26:41.700 Now, Al Sharpton commented on not the race angle, but the increase in crime, because you don't you don't have to be the victim of something as horrific as this poor woman in Chinatown to to feel the crime creeping up in your neighborhood.

01:26:54.340 If you live near a big city, he's complaining about just going to the pharmacy and half the goods are locked up.

01:27:01.120 And I'd love to know, actually, if my audience is experiencing this in more rural parts of the country.

01:27:05.380 I am out here in Fresno County.

01:27:07.040 Is it right?

01:27:07.520 Is it for sure in New York?

01:27:09.140 Like, you can't get deodorant.

01:27:10.200 It's like, what are people are steering, stealing the secret?

01:27:12.620 Like, why?

01:27:13.100 Why are they stealing the secret?

01:27:14.320 Yeah.

01:27:14.460 So Al Sharpton goes on MSNBC to complain about this and then gets he takes a shot from Nicole Hannah-Jones, who's on the side of, you know, basically the criminals.

01:27:25.080 But let's listen to Al and then I'll tell you what Nicole said.

01:27:26.980 You go to a local pharmacy, Dwayne Reed or Wright, any of them, they have the little button there.

01:27:35.240 You hit the buzzer and the guy comes over and unlocks your toothpaste.

01:27:39.460 I mean, we're talking about basic stuff.

01:27:41.400 What did I miss that we now have to lock up toothpaste?

01:27:44.600 He's got a challenge there because there is a debate in the criminal justice system.

01:27:48.900 And there are those that are concerned, including me, about overloading the system in the jails with petty crimes.

01:27:55.540 But at the same time, you cannot have a culture where people are just at random, just robbing and stealing and is out of control and is put on the front page of newspapers, which only encourages others to do it.

01:28:09.860 OK, so that now Nicole Hannah-Jones of the 1619 Project writes as follows in a tweet.

01:28:16.380 This drumbeat for continued mass incarceration.

01:28:20.200 That's how she sees what he said is really horrific to watch.

01:28:23.700 A person stealing steak is not national news, and there have always been thefts from stores.

01:28:29.620 This is how you legitimize the carceral state.

01:28:34.420 What do you make of it?

01:28:36.100 Well, it's predicated that she's an elite and she would not say that if somebody went into her upscale apartment and looted it like they do Walgreens.

01:28:45.400 So all of these elites pontificate with the assumption they're never going to be subject to the consequences.

01:28:52.000 And these are the consequences of our own ideology.

01:28:54.620 Al Sharpton is very ironic because for years he advocated policies that their logical trajectory would lead to where we are now.

01:29:02.100 In case of Hannah, if I could just very briefly talk about Nicole Jones, this is a person from the very beginning she entered the university.

01:29:12.380 She wrote a letter at the University of Notre Dame and said that white people were civilizational bloodsuckers.

01:29:18.800 And it was very racist.

01:29:20.760 She's herself of mixed ancestry.

01:29:23.160 She's half white.

01:29:24.020 Of course, we don't use the term white-black in the way the left created a word white-Hispanic when they wanted to demonize George Zimmerman and the Trayvon Martin.

01:29:33.160 All of a sudden, he was white. 0.83

01:29:35.260 He was not half Peruvian because that wasn't a narrative.

01:29:40.000 But my point is that when you look at her career, she said during the 2020 riots that the property theft was not really theft because it was sort of, I guess that was a Marxist take on property owning.

01:29:54.020 And then she has become the folk hero of re-dating iconic events in America.

01:30:00.380 Remember, she was a 1619 architect.

01:30:02.860 And she basically said that America was created because it wanted to keep holding slaves unlike the British that were supposedly going to emancipate.

01:30:14.000 And there was no evidence for that.

01:30:15.420 In fact, some of the strongest anti-slavery movement in the world had come from abolitionists in the north.

01:30:20.940 But the point I'm making is, and then recently, she tweeted and she gave another lecture in the Civil War when she said, and we go back to, and she's saying basically it was racist because we didn't have it earlier.

01:30:32.420 But she said that the Civil War started in 1865.

01:30:38.060 And I thought to myself, you're the expert on the founding date, and you're wrong by four years when the Civil War, which is the most important racial, slavery, political, military conflict in history.

01:30:51.980 And you don't even know when it started.

01:30:53.400 And then she finally came into the news that she was offered at the University of North Carolina a tenure position.

01:31:00.160 She doesn't have a PhD.

01:31:01.460 She has no record of scholarship.

01:31:03.580 If it had been anybody that I know that applied, they would have to wait six years to get tenure.

01:31:08.860 And she thought that they had waited too long to offer that.

01:31:12.460 There was too much controversy.

01:31:13.760 So she was going to turn that down.

01:31:15.600 And then she went to Howard University, and apparently $20 million in various grants followed her to that position to endow her professorship.

01:31:24.600 She's got a Pulitzer Prize.

01:31:25.860 She's got a very lucrative MacArthur Award.

01:31:28.860 Everything that she criticized, the society that she continually criticized has been so generous to her.

01:31:36.360 And yet there's no gratitude.

01:31:38.240 There's nothing.

01:31:38.820 And she would get very angry at hearing that.

01:31:40.580 But I think she needs to hear it.

01:31:41.820 All these people.

01:31:42.520 Everybody is a human being.

01:31:43.980 They're not part of a tribe in America.

01:31:46.640 And you make your own destiny, and you're responsible for your own actions.

01:31:50.920 And you should be criticized when you're found wanting.

01:31:53.760 And she's got a record of very hysterical and angry and factually incorrect statements.

01:32:02.620 And yet she wants to be considered a scholar worthy of instant tenure when she goes to a university. 0.80

01:32:08.500 Victor Davis Hanson, nobody's got your memory, your recall of the facts, and your ability to use them in response to the right questions and the right inquiries.

01:32:19.280 It's been wonderful.

01:32:20.180 It's great to see you.

01:32:21.500 Thank you for having me.

01:32:22.660 I want to tell you, tomorrow we're going to take on an issue that a lot of our listeners and our viewers have been asking us to talk about.

01:32:27.880 Several states now are seeing legal challenges as these states take away the mask mandates, right, especially in the schools and elsewhere, where parents of kids who they claim are immunocompromised are filing lawsuits to try to stop the masks from coming off.

01:32:44.820 So tomorrow we're going to hear from an attorney, from some parents, and a school board member pushing back on this tactic.

01:32:52.940 And is this likely the next wave of the battle?

01:32:56.180 Don't miss that.

01:32:56.900 In the meantime, download the show, Megyn Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher.

01:33:00.320 Subscribe at youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly.

01:33:02.780 See you tomorrow.

01:33:05.120 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:33:07.300 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:33:14.820 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 14, 2022

Speaking Freely and Kaepernick Truth, with Michele Tafoya, Plus Hillary Spying on Trump, with Victor Davis Hanson ｜ Ep. 261

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