The Megyn Kelly Show - Status of Trump Trials, and Cornell Student Arrested Over Threats to Jews, with Mike Davis, Dave Aronberg, and Maureen Callahan

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.900 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. So much to get to today with

00:00:16.340 the state of our cultural world in disarray. Later, we're going to be joined by one of our

00:00:20.840 favorites, Maureen Callahan of the Daily Mail. I love talking to her. She's coming here right

00:00:25.540 into the studio. But first, we begin with the Trump legal world, which has got a lot of activity

00:00:33.320 in it right now that may be relevant to who will be the next president. The former president's legal

00:00:38.720 troubles are, of course, seemingly never ending. He's facing four criminal indictments and four

00:00:44.560 criminal trials over the next year or so. But two other major cases are taking place right now that

00:00:50.000 have gotten less attention but are very important. One is in Colorado. In this case, the plaintiffs

00:00:56.400 seek to remove Donald Trump from the 2024 ballot altogether from one of the critical swing states.

00:01:03.300 Imagine it if they prevailed and they got him off the ballot in Colorado, presuming he

00:01:08.320 gets the Republican nomination. This is based on that 14th Amendment argument that we've raised with

00:01:14.340 you before. We've discussed it with Professor Dershowitz and others. But it's now on trial. It's

00:01:19.720 being tried in front of a judge out in Colorado. We'll take a look at it. Over here, closer to home

00:01:24.440 in New York State, Attorney General Letitia James's civil fraud case against Trump and his family

00:01:31.120 business continues today with Donald Trump Jr. expected to take the stand today. Eric Trump is

00:01:37.740 supposed to take the stand later this week. And Donald Trump Sr. is also expected. And there is also

00:01:43.920 news in the Georgia Fannie Willis case in the D.C. Judge Chetkin case and more. So there's a lot going

00:01:50.040 on. We've we've not been paying as close attention to it because of Israel. But today's a good day to

00:01:55.280 turn back. And we've got our favorites here to break it all down for us.

00:01:58.100 Now streaming on Paramount Plus. Someone is trying to frame us. Until our names are cleared.

00:02:05.920 We're fugitives from Interpol. Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks. Espionage. You still as good

00:02:12.500 a shot as you used to be? Better. Is there love language? We like to walk that fine line between

00:02:18.760 techno thriller and romantic comedy. We make up our own rules. NCIS Tony and Ziva now streaming on

00:02:26.780 Paramount Plus. Two expert attorneys, Mike Davis, founder and president of the Article 3 project,

00:02:33.640 possibly Trump's future attorney general, and Dave Ehrenberg, state attorney for Palm Beach County,

00:02:39.440 Florida, possibly another future Trump prosecutor. You can find Mike on Fox and Dave on MSNBC,

00:02:47.920 but only here together. Guys, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having us.

00:02:54.300 Okay, that could actually happen. Like where you could be prosecuting, you'd be defending.

00:02:58.580 I feel like I'm going to get the exclusive if that happens. So that's exciting to me.

00:03:02.440 Let's talk about Colorado. It really would be extraordinary. We haven't been paying much

00:03:06.280 attention to it, but Colorado, like that's a critical swing state. And if they can manage to

00:03:11.220 keep him off the ballot, it would be huge in Colorado, but it would be tried immediately in

00:03:16.260 several other states. And there are efforts already underway in other states to get him off the

00:03:20.380 ballot because the 14th amendment reads in part, no person shall hold any office, civil or military

00:03:30.920 under the U.S. who having previously taken an oath as an officer of the U.S. to support the

00:03:37.900 constitution shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion or given aid or comfort to the enemies

00:03:45.520 thereof. So if you, you're not allowed to hold office, civil or military at the federal level or

00:03:51.480 otherwise, frankly, if you previously took an oath to support the constitution of the United States,

00:03:56.900 and then you went on to engage in an insurrection or you gave aid to our enemies. This is what they're

00:04:05.680 using to say Donald Trump did that. The insurrection, that's what the left says January 6th was.

00:04:11.740 And they say nothing really needs to be done. It's self-executing. Like that's, that's what

00:04:16.300 the 14th amendment says. That's what he did. It's done. The secretary of state of Colorado should

00:04:21.340 remove him if he wins the nomination from all the ballots. She's a Democrat who would love to take his

00:04:27.140 name off the ballots. She's made that clear publicly, but she says, I will wait until the judge tells me

00:04:32.780 what to do. So thumbs up on that. Cause that's how this should work. And there is a judge trial,

00:04:37.900 a bench trial happening right now in Colorado to figure out whether this can happen. Uh, the judge

00:04:44.360 out there is named judge Sarah B Wallace state district court judge. She, um, doesn't appear to

00:04:52.820 love Republicans. She, she donated a hundred dollars in 2022 to act blue, which is a group that says its

00:05:03.500 goal is to quote, eliminate Republicans currently in national office from Colorado. So she's not a

00:05:11.400 Trump fan, Mike Davis. She's not a fan. Uh, however, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say she

00:05:16.660 can interpret the law irrespective of her politics. And how do you think this case is likely to come down?

00:05:22.460 It's being tried right now. Well, I'm out here in Denver, uh, watching this trial in the courtroom

00:05:28.320 all week. I'm taking a break now to come to come talk to you on this show, but I'll tell you, is this

00:05:33.020 Denver district court judge, uh, Sarah Wallace was just appointed, uh, by the, uh, she was appointed.

00:05:40.400 She was named in August of 2022 by the Denver or by the Colorado Democrat governor and, uh, effective

00:05:48.340 January of 2023 and two months after she was named. Uh, but before she became a judge, she donated to

00:05:55.300 this, uh, this group called the Colorado turnout project and the Colorado Colorado turnout projects

00:06:02.100 specific mission is to remove Republicans from office who, uh, who supported president Trump on

00:06:10.720 January 6th. Right? So how the hell can she donate to an anti-Trump January 6th group and then sit on a

00:06:19.600 trial this week, going after preside over a trial that's trying to throw president Trump off the

00:06:25.140 ballot based upon what he did on January 6th. That is an obvious conflict of interest. President Trump's

00:06:31.540 lawyers raised this issue on Monday morning when they found this donation. And she said, ah, don't worry

00:06:37.880 about it. I can be fair. Right? Well, guess what? That's not the legal standard as both you and Dave

00:06:43.540 know that is she, it doesn't matter whether she subjectively thinks that she could be fair when

00:06:48.940 you're dealing with recusal issues. It's whether objectively the public thinks that she can be fair.

00:06:55.300 And I don't think any objective human being would think a judge could be fair on a January 6th trial to

00:07:01.340 throw Trump off the ballot when she donated to a January 6th group to throw Republicans out of office

00:07:07.340 who supported president Trump. So that's, that's a very big, you know, that that's reversible air

00:07:13.920 right there. I presume that she's going to rule in favor of these Democrats who are trying to throw

00:07:20.180 president Trump off the ballot. This is an election challenge in Colorado. So it's immediately appealable

00:07:25.780 to the, uh, to the Colorado Supreme courts, the Colorado Supreme court has been stacked with left

00:07:31.960 wing activist. So I don't think there's any chance that president Trump wins there. All these dirt

00:07:37.040 balls from New York and California have moved into Colorado and destroyed my beloved Colorado so they

00:07:42.980 can smoke weed. And, um, and so that's right. Just stay, stay home, stay home people. So now,

00:07:51.580 so now I think the Supreme court of the United States, which has discretionary review,

00:07:55.980 I think they're going to have to put on their big boy pants and actually take a Trump case with their

00:08:00.120 lifetime tenure and pay protection. I hope they find the courage to do their job here. And they're

00:08:04.640 going to have to fix this because other States are going to use this Colorado precedent. States

00:08:09.100 like Michigan are going to point to Colorado as president and try to take Trump off the ballot in

00:08:13.620 other, uh, sweet swing States around the country. I mean, that would be huge. It would be huge for both

00:08:20.040 sides, Dave, if he actually couldn't get on the ballot, if he wins the nomination, but can I get on the

00:08:25.300 ballot in these critical swing States or some handful of them? That's, that's ball game. Um,

00:08:29.860 it does feel like lawfare. So can you speak to the judge's alleged conflicts of interest here?

00:08:36.880 Good to be back with you, Megan. And with my friend, Mike, uh, first off, I don't think

00:08:41.480 Colorado is a swing state just as an initial matter. Uh, in fact, I don't see this happening

00:08:45.580 in any true swing States only about six swing States and Colorado is pretty blue, but, uh, let's

00:08:51.560 talk about the judge. You know, I understand that it doesn't look good that the judge

00:08:55.280 gave money to act blue, which is just like the general, uh, clearing house for democratic

00:08:59.920 candidates. I mean, act blue is what all of us Democrats would give to, we give to act

00:09:03.640 blue. It's it's, I wouldn't read that much into it. She's trying to destroy the Republican

00:09:07.720 party, but the, I admit that it doesn't look good. Um, but neither does the fact that judge

00:09:14.120 cannon in the Trump case was appointed by Donald Trump. The standard for accusing a judge, a judge

00:09:19.280 is really high. It's a high burden and she's not going to be recused and nor should judge

00:09:25.320 cannon be recused for the case, even though Donald Trump appointed her to the bench or

00:09:29.780 when this eventually gets to the Supreme court, if Colorado rules to, you know, to, if the judge

00:09:34.820 rules to bump them off the ballot, I do think it gets to the U S Supreme court where there

00:09:38.860 are three judge justices appointed by Donald Trump. And ultimately they are going to rule

00:09:44.140 my view that you can't use this process to remove a candidate for president off the ballot

00:09:51.280 for a few reasons. Number one, he hasn't been charged with insurrection. Number two, section

00:09:56.000 three of the 14th amendment is not that clear that applies to the president. It applies to

00:10:00.780 others, but doesn't say the president. Um, and so I think that this in the end will not

00:10:05.960 be the reason why Donald Trump is not in the white house. If he is not returned to the white

00:10:10.360 house, won't be because of this. It'll be because the voters have spoken.

00:10:14.140 Oh, so he's conceding the argument, Mike, a surprise twist for the audience at home.

00:10:18.640 They agree that Trump should not be bounced off the ballot because of the 14th amendment

00:10:22.900 thing. Can I ask you about that? Because there has been some legal debate about whether the

00:10:26.120 14th amendment applies to somebody because you know, the full textual version, I read a

00:10:31.500 version with my own ellipses just to make it easier for people to follow the longer version

00:10:36.920 disqualification from holding office has other language like no person shall be a Senator

00:10:41.840 or representative in Congress. All right. He's not running for that or elector of president

00:10:46.160 or vice and vice president. He's not running to be an elector, but then we get to, or hold

00:10:50.480 any office civil or military under the United States. So why wouldn't that apply to the president?

00:10:55.580 Well, is it not a civil or military office to be the commander in chief and president, Dave?

00:11:00.240 It could, uh, but legal scholars are dispute over this. It's not, I didn't say wouldn't necessarily

00:11:05.960 apply. I said it's not clear. And I think that is just another reason why ultimately this United

00:11:10.840 States Supreme court, six to three conservative majority with three justice appointed by Donald

00:11:15.780 Trump, they're not going to remove him from the ballot. Uh, so I would agree with you guys that

00:11:22.380 this is not going to happen. And, um, as far as whether it should happen, I've never been a big

00:11:28.100 fan of this argument. I think there are a lot of reasons not to put him back in the white house,

00:11:32.900 but I don't think this is the best one. What's happening out there, Mike, I'm interested in your,

00:11:38.000 and your feelings because it seems to be an effort to persuade this judge who already seems

00:11:43.560 very anti J six and what happened, not that anybody's in support of what happened on January

00:11:48.160 6th, but, um, to persuade her that it was just, just as horrible as she's heard. It was even worse.

00:11:53.760 Um, what I read is that they started with, uh, opening statements, then a U S Capitol police officer

00:11:58.640 who was on the quote front lines of the quote violent assault. And then, I mean, truly one of my least

00:12:04.080 favorite Democrats and there's a long list on both sides who I can't stand, but representative Eric

00:12:09.160 Swalwell, I'm sorry, but he is like, I try never to mention him. I try net. I do both parties,

00:12:16.700 the service of never, if I can avoid it mentioning their worst people, because I just think my audience

00:12:22.340 hates them all and doesn't want to hear about them, but audience, I'm sorry. He showed up and

00:12:26.980 testified in the trial. So we're talking about him. Uh, he recounted the horrors of the January 6th

00:12:32.640 day and the, and the riot. So Mike, what did, what does all of that add up to just heartstrings

00:12:39.460 or what insurrection you have to convince her? There was one. Well, and here's the issue. The

00:12:45.760 14th amendment amendment was ratified in 1868. And there's actually a case on point dealing with

00:12:52.100 disqualification of, of the, of the civil war insurrectionist is from 1869 chief justice,

00:12:59.160 the chief justice, uh, at the time, Samuel chase held that in order to disqualify under section

00:13:05.740 three of the 14th amendment to disqualify for insurrection or rebellion, it's not self-executing

00:13:11.340 Congress has to pass a federal criminal statute, which Congress did in 1870. There's an insurrection

00:13:18.300 or rebellion federal criminal statute on the books since 1870 was last updated in 1948.

00:13:25.600 So if you want to get president Trump thrown off the ballot, you can't go to a partisan secretary

00:13:30.380 of state or some goofball bias judge in Denver, Colorado. You have to have a U S attorney bring

00:13:36.340 federal charges in federal court. You have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. You have to have

00:13:41.140 a unanimous federal jury, find him guilty, a federal judge can convict, and it has to be upheld on

00:13:46.220 appeal. If that happens, then under this federal statute that was passed pursuant to section five of the

00:13:52.160 14th amendment to enact section three, then you can disqualify him short of that. You cannot

00:13:57.720 just disqualify, right? That January six committee spent tens of millions of dollars looking for this

00:14:03.280 evidence. Jack Smith has spent tens of millions of dollars looking for this evidence. There is no

00:14:08.160 evidence of an insurrection because it does not exist, right? What happened on January 6th was a lawful

00:14:14.760 protest permitted by the national park service that devolved into a riot. It got out of control and turned

00:14:20.880 into a riot. Hmm. I want to say this, um, just going back and looking at it, your Colorado has

00:14:27.120 been blue for a while, but I would say it's definitely not as blue as, you know, like my

00:14:32.440 home state of New York or New Jersey and so on. Like it's, it's been in play. It's certainly on the

00:14:37.000 lower levels. And we've been watching the Senate races very carefully there over the past couple of

00:14:40.700 cycles, but Michigan, Dave Trump won Michigan in 2016, which is also getting ready. They actually have

00:14:47.700 a challenge right now that Trump is trying to get rid of Minnesota. That's the case. He that's a

00:14:52.200 state Trump lost to Hillary by I think one, 1.5%, 1.6%. So it was tight, you know? So this Colorado

00:14:59.600 ruling, especially it goes up to SCOTUS could actually have a big impact on these other states.

00:15:05.120 So we do need to watch it. It's also a similar challenge filed in New Hampshire and so on. Um,

00:15:10.580 so I can see why the Trump campaign doesn't like these lawsuits and that it's important for them to win

00:15:16.940 them, even though they don't think they, they probably agree with you that they're not likely

00:15:20.280 to prevail. Um, okay, let's talk about what's happening in New York because this guy, I mean,

00:15:26.060 this, this judge is, he's a piece of work. He obviously cannot stand Donald Trump and is not

00:15:33.720 afraid to show it. Um, so this is the case. Do you want to explain it, Dave? He's it's, it's basically

00:15:40.640 the state attorney general going after the Trump organization and Trump saying he and his,

00:15:46.340 in particular, his two sons overstated the Trump company assets in order to get bank loans

00:15:52.820 at more favorable rates than he would have gotten if he had valued the assets of his company more

00:16:00.180 accurately. But no one's claiming he didn't pay the loans back or that the banks somehow got screwed.

00:16:07.460 The banks aren't complaining. So Trump all along has been saying, no, there's no victim. What he

00:16:11.640 tweeted out or truthed out was there's no victim except me, except me. Cause you know, he's losing

00:16:18.380 this case. This judge hates him. So this is wrapping up now. What do you, what do you, how do you see this

00:16:24.380 case going? It's pretty much over already, Megan, because the judge, Judge Engron ruled via summary

00:16:31.500 judgment that the fraud occurred. He's liable. Now this is more about damages than about whether he did

00:16:37.700 it. There are some other measures that they're going to have to deal with, but for the most part,

00:16:42.380 this case has already been decided. It's just how bad it's going to be for Trump. And now this week,

00:16:48.380 Trump's children are going to have to start testifying. And this really bothers Trump deeply

00:16:52.460 because his business is himself. This is something he cares about more than you could even say the

00:16:57.820 criminal cases because it strikes at the heart of who he is. And so that's why he shows up to court

00:17:02.800 and he lashes out against this judge, which is really not a smart move because the judge is the

00:17:07.660 decision maker. There's no jury here. And the reason why there's no jury is because Trump's own

00:17:12.000 lawyer, Alina Haba, didn't check the box for a jury trial. So he has only his own team to blame for it.

00:17:18.440 But in the end, I think it's going to go poorly for Trump. I think he'll probably get fined the

00:17:22.760 maximum amount, $250 million. This is about inflating the value of your assets, including by the way,

00:17:29.940 his apartment in New York. It's one thing to say, hey, it's a rounding error or we're just estimating

00:17:35.700 it wrong. Well, when you're estimating your apartment being three times the size of the actual

00:17:41.340 size, that's fraud. So that's what they're saying. You can't do this to get bigger bank loans. You

00:17:46.920 can't do this to get bigger insurance policies. And at the same time, deflating your property values

00:17:52.820 like they've done with Mar-a-Lago to get better tax rates, because for Mar-a-Lago, they estimated

00:17:59.060 their property is worth between 18 and 28 million. And the judge used that figure. And it's so upset

00:18:04.440 Trump. And Trump was pissed off at the judge for it. But then the judge was like, hey, I'm basing my

00:18:09.540 estimate on your own figures that you gave to the Palm Beach County property appraiser. So this is why

00:18:15.780 he's on trial. And I think it's going to be a negative ruling for him when the damages verdict comes

00:18:21.780 out. I think we're going to reach another point of agreement here, Mike. Do you also predict it's going

00:18:27.440 to be a negative ruling for Donald Trump by this judge? Of course it is. But I think I need to

00:18:33.760 correct a couple of things. I don't think that there's not a jury trial because Elena Hava didn't

00:18:38.460 check the box. I think this is a New York civil enforcement matter by the attorney general's

00:18:43.800 office where there's not an option for a jury, which is a head scratcher to me, because that seems to

00:18:49.660 violate the Seventh Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, because this Tish James is seeking

00:18:56.060 $250 million in damages. I don't know how you can see $250 million in damages and not have a jury under

00:19:04.020 the Seventh Amendment to the Constitution. And also on the valuation of Mar-a-Lago, you know this

00:19:10.280 better than anyone. You're down there, Dave, but I thought that there is a law that the property

00:19:16.140 assessment can't go up more than a certain percentage each year. And that's why Mar-a-Lago

00:19:21.780 under the assessor's value is like $18 million. But as you know, a tennis court at Mar-a-Lago is

00:19:29.620 worth more than $18 million. The property down there is extremely expensive. You have prime real

00:19:35.480 estate on the intercoastal waterway to the ocean. I think that to say that that's only worth $18

00:19:43.280 million in this fraud case is silly. There's a difference between how your property is assessed

00:19:50.120 by the tax collector and what you pay for property taxes versus what it's actually worth.

00:19:55.840 How about that, Dave?

00:19:57.380 Yes. Well, there's a deed restriction on Mar-a-Lago. So you can't build high-rises there.

00:20:02.280 You're limited to how you can use the property. It has to be used as a social club, which is why

00:20:06.820 you wouldn't get $1.5 billion on the open market for it. But point taken that it's definitely worth

00:20:12.880 more than $28 million. That is a beautiful property. But the reason why it's valued at

00:20:19.580 $28 million, it's because Trump in 2020, his representatives asked the property appraiser's

00:20:25.560 office to keep it at that amount. They wanted that lower figure because they could pay less in taxes.

00:20:31.420 And so now when Trump is bashing Judge N'Goron for using that figure, I think that he's hoist by his

00:20:37.220 own petard, to use a Shakespearean phrase from Hamlet. It's that that's a figure that he agreed with.

00:20:42.420 And that's why he's on trial there is because on one side, he's saying, look how little the

00:20:47.000 properties are worth for tax purposes, but look how much they're worth to get bank loans. And the

00:20:51.980 fact that no one was hurt is really not a matter because in New York, you don't have to have a

00:20:59.120 victim to be charged with fraud. And besides, you can actually-

00:21:02.180 Well, I mean, that I've had to say is an absurdity. Like as a lifelong New York stater,

00:21:07.540 that law needs to change. It's absurd, but it's on the books and it's enforceable.

00:21:11.720 And, you know, that's what the voters of New York have chosen. And Letitia James is an AG who's a

00:21:16.940 true blue Democrat who would love to get Trump, promised to get Trump as she was running for

00:21:21.320 office a couple of times. And so this is where we are. I mean, she has the right to go after him

00:21:26.620 because the law is what it is, Mike. And it looks to me like Judge N'Goron, who already gave Trump

00:21:31.960 a defeat in the summary judgment motion in large part, is now going to give him a second blow when he

00:21:38.920 finds against him at the end of this case. However, Trump is scoring some points. I actually do think

00:21:44.740 it's not totally foolhardy of him to go out there and criticize this judge who's already, you know,

00:21:49.100 the cake is baked. He knows. He has no chance of persuading him. But what happened with Michael Cohen

00:21:53.680 on the stand this week was kind of interesting. And I heard both sides arguing about Michael Cohen.

00:21:59.000 But when I saw that Tish James came out and said, well, you know, he's not our star witness.

00:22:04.180 Because then I knew I knew exactly how badly it had gone for her. Right. Like you don't have the

00:22:08.680 AG saying things like that unless it went terribly for her. So, Michael Cohen, do you want to tell us

00:22:13.760 what happened, Mike? Or would you like us like me to summarize it? You may want to summarize it.

00:22:18.960 OK, so here's what happened. Michael Cohen, who is Trump's former fixer, was like his conciliary

00:22:23.320 because he was more than a lawyer. He was like, I don't know, his henchman. I mean, he would just do

00:22:27.820 whatever Trump wanted him to do. He was he took the stand. But this is a guy who's already a convicted

00:22:35.600 felon. He served time. And so that's never ideal for any prosecutor or any lawyer bringing this guy

00:22:40.920 to the stand. And in this case, AG, Letitia James and her people, I'm sure, weren't too thrilled about

00:22:46.120 Michael Cohen's status as a convicted felon. So he gets up there and takes the stand. And he tries to

00:22:52.980 say first, I have in front of me, stand by, that Trump had asked him to increase the total assets

00:23:00.460 based on a number that Trump arbitrarily chose. Like, you got to get my assets up so I can get

00:23:05.780 this bank loan. Then on Wednesday, this is, yeah, last week, he gave combative testimony in the face

00:23:13.800 of cross-examination after he had implicated Trump, as I just stated, saying he told me to increase the

00:23:19.220 assets. And he said, OK, again, that Trump had directed him to reverse engineer financial

00:23:28.840 statements to increase his net worth. So same Tuesday and Wednesday, he's going after Trump,

00:23:33.980 saying he's a bad guy. He told me to do bad stuff. Then Trump attorney Alina Habak pressed Cohen

00:23:39.600 about earlier testimony he had given that contradicted those two statements. In particular,

00:23:43.680 he gave testimony, sworn testimony in 2019 in front of Congress. And when he was asked whether Trump at

00:23:48.820 that time had directed him to inflate numbers for Trump's personal statements, he said, not that I

00:23:54.480 recall, no. Then Alina Habak, Trump's lawyer, said, oh, well, that doesn't seem entirely consistent with

00:24:01.780 what you just told this court on Tuesday and Wednesday. And Trump admitted that he had been

00:24:06.420 lying in his testimony back in 2019 before Congress. Oh, it's a record scratch. All right,

00:24:12.140 this is bad. Letitia James is sitting in the pews thinking, my God, no, by the with the rest of the

00:24:18.100 audience. She's not actually trying the case. After lunch, another Trump attorney pressed Cohen further

00:24:24.400 on that deceitful congressional testimony. And Cohen, over the lunch break, changed his testimony,

00:24:31.820 now saying that earlier testimony actually was not false. And then Trump's lawyer said, so Mr. Trump

00:24:39.340 never asked you to inflate the numbers on his financial statement. And Cohen's now answer was

00:24:45.280 correct. So he's I know. So he's going with. First, he says he told me to do it. Then they say

00:24:54.560 you didn't say that at your 2019 congressional testimony. Then he says, well, I was lying then.

00:24:59.500 Then he comes back in the stand and says, actually, I was lying just when I said I was lying then,

00:25:04.980 because actually he never did tell me to do it. I mean, it's this guy. He can't even keep his lies

00:25:09.080 straight. And that is what led Trump to abruptly leave the courtroom and declare a victory outside

00:25:14.820 the courtroom, saying the witness just admitted that we won the trial, that he never asked me to

00:25:21.220 do any of this, that he did it. And, you know, no one's going to trust Michael Cohen. That's when

00:25:25.360 Trish Letitia James came out and said, oh, he's not our main witness. It's not our main witness. But

00:25:31.540 the judge did not strike Cohen's testimony. The judge did not rule in Trump's favor on this point,

00:25:37.420 Mike, because he said there's a mountain of evidence that supports the idea that you like

00:25:44.300 a mob boss didn't have to give the order directly. You could do it with your eyes. You could do it with

00:25:50.600 a wave of a hand. I'm giving this judge a better accent than he actually has. And when they asked

00:25:56.560 for a verdict in their favor, he said, absolutely denied. So what do you make of Michael Cohen's

00:26:03.300 role, his recurring role, frankly, in Trump's legal troubles, Mike?

00:26:07.420 I think Michael Cohen may have realized that, oh, crap, the statute of limitations is like

00:26:13.840 five years for perjury to Congress. And this 2019 testimony, we're in 2023. Crap, I could be charged

00:26:22.420 for perjury to Congress. So maybe I should fix that. So I think Michael Cohen's testimony was

00:26:28.240 disastrous for Trish James. It just shows that the wheels have fallen off the clown car in this New

00:26:35.480 York fraud case. And let's just step back and remember this. How is it fraud for a businessman

00:26:41.440 to pay back sophisticated Wall Street banks in full, on time, as agreed with interest? I'm still

00:26:49.060 trying to get my head around this idea that somehow these sophisticated Wall Street banks were defrauded

00:26:55.660 by President Trump. And I'm trying to get my head around the fact that somehow the public was defrauded

00:27:01.480 by these transactions between these sophisticated Wall Street banks and Trump.

00:27:06.720 Well, and he also had disclaimers in all of his loan applications and his financial statements,

00:27:11.600 Dave, saying, do your own homework, you know, kick the tires on your own. These are my representations,

00:27:16.400 but you've got to figure it out for yourselves. And these were not podunk, ma and pa investors.

00:27:22.040 These were it was, you know, Citibank. It was huge banks that have due diligence teams that and this

00:27:27.560 is why they're not complaining. They understand perfectly well that they were not victimized by

00:27:31.100 Trump. Well, first, as we discussed, the law doesn't require there to be victims. But secondly,

00:27:36.860 you could say that they were victimized because had they had accurate numbers, they wouldn't have

00:27:41.560 given Trump as favorable rates as they got. They would have made more money. So in that sense,

00:27:46.020 they were victimized. Plus, the disclaimers that he gave were pretty vague. It wasn't like he said,

00:27:50.420 hey, these are fraudulent numbers. We're making them up. It was it reminded me when I went after

00:27:55.680 Miss Cleo years ago. Remember the Jamaican Shango Shaman, late night psychic? Miss Cleo,

00:28:00.320 what'd she do? Well, I was the guy who took her down. That was my claim to fame.

00:28:05.860 I don't like Dave anymore. No, we used to call him all the time, Mike. Remember that?

00:28:11.940 Call me now. Well, on the screen, it would say we're for real. We're psychics. We're for real.

00:28:17.780 On the bottom, they would say for entertainment only. And that reminds me of Trump's disclaimers.

00:28:21.520 It's like this little disclaimer. It's kind of vague. That doesn't undo all the alleged fraud

00:28:27.160 that's out there. So that's why, I mean, he's going to lose this case, if nothing more than the

00:28:31.380 fact that you've got a judge who clearly, by the fact that he said, what was the term he used?

00:28:37.000 Absolutely denied.

00:28:38.700 Right. When a judge tells you absolutely denied as opposed to denied, you know you're in a lot of

00:28:43.400 trouble. So put it in perspective. Why? Because Trump does clearly care about this case

00:28:50.420 very much. He does not have to be there. And he's showing up two out of his kids. Two out of

00:28:55.200 his three kids are showing up. I know Ivanka is showing up, too. She's been ordered to give

00:28:58.260 testimony, though. She was released as a defendant. She's coming next week. So, I mean, as a practice,

00:29:03.560 I read the penalties that he's facing here, and they're absolutely draconian. I mean, he's gonna

00:29:08.860 he's not going to be able to do business at all. They're saying they want to permanently prevent

00:29:15.240 Trump and his sons from running any New York companies that judge anger anger on already

00:29:21.860 stripped the Trump's of control over their signature New York properties. We talked about

00:29:26.040 that once before. They want two hundred and fifty million dollars. And I don't know that

00:29:31.720 Trump has two hundred and fifty million dollars. I know he says he's a billionaire and so on,

00:29:35.020 but that's that doesn't mean he's liquid and can pay two hundred and fifty million dollars.

00:29:38.220 So, Dave, what do you think the stakes are here?

00:29:40.740 They're huge. This is a big reason why Trump's so upset. And there's talk that perhaps he could

00:29:46.720 put the company in Ivanka's name if she's not, in the end, part of the final judgment because

00:29:53.460 she's not named as a defendant. She was dropped from the case, as you correctly noted. Or he could

00:29:58.620 set up shop in Florida where he lives now. He's a resident there. But this will really strike to the

00:30:03.700 heart of the Trump organization. This is really damaging to him. And you're right. I'm not sure he's

00:30:08.820 liquid enough to pay a two hundred fifty million dollar fine. I wonder if that could come from

00:30:13.800 his supporters around the country who were eager to pay for his election defense when the money

00:30:18.780 didn't really go for election defense. So we'll see what happens. But there's no doubt this is

00:30:22.940 very potentially damaging for him, even though it does not involve potential incarceration.

00:30:29.300 Mike, he clearly cares about this one. You know, to the outside world, it makes it feel like his

00:30:33.960 freedom's not in jeopardy. But his businesses, the thing that made him famous is right. This business

00:30:38.740 man in New York, he's declared bankruptcy before I was in New York when it happened. They had those

00:30:42.780 little coffee cans at your local coffee kiosk kiosk with like a help Trump as a joke because he was

00:30:47.980 he declared bankruptcy, but he was still a millionaire. It was kind of a you know, it was a business

00:30:51.620 decision. In any event, is there any chance that when Trump runs for office in November 2024,

00:30:56.700 as a result of this case, he's not only going to be a potentially convicted felon, but a bankrupt one?

00:31:01.480 I don't know if you can discharge fraud damages in bankruptcy. So I mean, this, this might be a

00:31:09.260 case that has to get resolved by the Supreme Court of the United States as well on constitutional

00:31:13.400 grounds. First of all, this judge just entered summary judgments before the trial even began,

00:31:19.440 when there's conflicting evidence about the valuation of Mar-a-Lago, he just said, I'm gonna,

00:31:24.280 there's no conflicting evidence. I'm gonna, I mean, this, this judge is such a goofball,

00:31:28.540 he couldn't even pretend to be fair. He couldn't just wait until the end of the trial to rule how

00:31:33.600 he was going to rule. He did it at the beginning of the trial, because he's a goofball. He's a

00:31:37.080 partisan hack. And then, like we, like we discussed, there's no jury here when you're seeking

00:31:42.300 $250 million in damages. So I don't know how that passes muster under the Seventh Amendment. So there,

00:31:49.300 there are some clear constitutional issues. Even if New York laws is as screwed up as Dave says it is,

00:31:55.740 I think that you might have a problem with the U.S. Constitution.

00:31:59.480 It almost certainly is. Having practiced law in New York for a long time. Yes, I, my money is

00:32:04.960 on. It is as screwed up as Dave suggests. Stand by because there's much more happening in Trump world

00:32:10.320 and elsewhere. We're going to pick up a couple of other cases, non-Trump related right after the

00:32:15.040 break. Don't go away.

00:32:15.720 If you've never had a reading from a real psychic, try us right now for free. Your father had a stroke

00:32:25.100 at a young age, did he not? Right. Did you get strep throat a great deal in your late teen years?

00:32:31.360 Yes, I did. Okay. His eyes are almost spooky. They're so pretty. That would be my ex-boyfriend.

00:32:36.680 The five of swords is next to him. And that means that he is away. Yep. Did you think Cleo

00:32:42.280 wasn't going to see that? Oh, I knew you were. Ups. You go, girl.

00:32:48.700 Dave. Good for Danny. Hey, hats off to my team. That, that actually was Debbie Murphy,

00:32:57.400 of course, Canadian Debbie, uh, who found Miss Cleo, who you put out of business,

00:33:01.880 a tone, sir, a tone. Look how she helped that young woman with her boyfriend problems.

00:33:06.320 Right. Uh, the thing about Miss Cleo, and kudos to Debbie for finding that,

00:33:09.500 is that she was a Jamaican Shango Shaman psychic who is neither Jamaican nor a Shango Shaman psychic.

00:33:16.380 Everything was a fake. Was her name Cleo? Uh, no, that was her stage name. It was Uri Del Harris.

00:33:24.200 Spectacular. I, not guilty. I love it. See, see, Mike, Dave has done some good in the world.

00:33:31.240 Um, okay. I want to finish up with one Trump thing before we move on to a couple of others.

00:33:35.220 And that is the gag order. He's been gagged in the New York state case that we just discussed

00:33:39.860 to about his business. Whatever. If the judge doesn't want him making fun of the judge's law

00:33:44.540 clerk, who's pretending to be a judge sitting right next to judge Erdogan. What I don't care that much

00:33:49.680 about that one. Trump's not really listening. He's getting fined 5,000 and then 10,000. Good luck to

00:33:53.900 that guy. If he tries to put Trump in jail as he's threatening, not going to happen. But the one in the DC

00:33:58.120 federal case case is more interesting, Mike. So the January 6th case brought, um, by Jack Smith

00:34:04.360 in, in DC about the alleged insurrection, uh, not to be mistaken with the federal case about the

00:34:10.140 documents at Mar-a-Lago. The one in DC is being tried by judge Chuck in who really doesn't like

00:34:16.120 Trump. That's been clear. She's been very, very, very hard on all J six defendants. And she's

00:34:20.720 implemented a gag order on him that even now the ACLU has stepped into challenge as in violation of

00:34:31.160 the first amendment that his right to speak and the public's right to hear him. So what is happening

00:34:37.600 with that gag order and what's your opinion of it? Yeah, just a side note, judge Chuck and even

00:34:42.260 denied the ACLU's ability to file an amicus brief. So she just doesn't want to hear it at all. So

00:34:48.420 this Obama DC judge, Tanya Shukin has teamed up with this Biden special counsel, Jack Smith,

00:34:55.380 to put this unconstitutional gag order on a criminal defendant. If there is anyone in America who needs

00:35:03.340 the first amendment right to speak out, it is a criminal defendant, uh, and to speak out against

00:35:09.220 the prosecutor, against the judge, against the court staff, against the process that is clearly

00:35:15.320 protected by the first amendment. This is an illegal prior restraint on president Trump's first

00:35:21.820 amendment rights. The first amendment protects Americans, including criminal defendants, not the

00:35:27.340 government, including Jack Smith's bruised ego. The sixth amendment guarantees the criminal defendants

00:35:33.220 rights to a fair trial, not Jack Smith's right to a fair trial. And the local criminal rule to which

00:35:40.800 Jack Smith and judge Tanya Shukin site, I think it's 57.7 talks about protecting the accused,

00:35:48.660 the defendants. And so they started doing these gag orders on these criminal defendants,

00:35:53.540 criminal defendants with Roger Stone. And this is a very dangerous precedent. They're saying,

00:35:58.720 they're saying they're trying to do this so they can protect witnesses from intimidation.

00:36:02.960 There are federal criminal statutes on the books right now, right now for obstruction of justice,

00:36:08.840 including witness intimidation. So if they think president Trump is intimidating witnesses or

00:36:14.220 intimidating court staff or intimidating the prosecutor, charge him under the criminal

00:36:18.800 statutes, but don't put this unconstitutional prior restraint on his first amendment rights.

00:36:24.960 What do you make of it, Dave?

00:36:27.200 I have to disagree with my friend, Mike. You know, judge Chukin, uh, implemented a partial gag order.

00:36:33.440 She said that if Donald Trump wants to criticize the Biden administration and call this

00:36:38.340 a political persecution, he can do so. He just can't intimidate witnesses. He can't go after

00:36:43.460 and start attacking prosecutors and the judge because you do so you put people's lives at risk.

00:36:48.980 And look, this is not unprecedented. SBF, Sam Bankman Freed is also subject to a gag order.

00:36:54.340 Roger Stone, as Mike said, was subject to one. And look, I've never seen any criminal defendant

00:36:59.400 in my jurisdiction, uh, use such inflammatory language. And I can tell you that if anyone did,

00:37:04.780 they would be in jail. The fact is, is that judge Chukin stayed her limited order to allow Trump to

00:37:11.460 appeal. And then only after he attacked Mark Meadows, an important witness in his social media

00:37:16.580 posts, then it was re-implemented. So he's been given a lot of the benefit of the doubt because

00:37:21.180 he's a former president running for president again. And I think this gag order strikes the right

00:37:26.360 balance here. Hmm. All right. So you mentioned Sam Bankman Freed. I wanted to touch on that case too,

00:37:31.320 because that's expected to go to the jury. I think today, Wednesday, he's been tried for

00:37:36.520 conspiracy to commit several versions of fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, you name it,

00:37:41.040 which has a little bit less of an, of a legal burden than proving just fraud than making it

00:37:46.140 just a pure fraud case. It's these are conspiracy counts to commit fraud. The star witness, but there

00:37:52.260 have been a few of his top emissaries within his crypto company. FTX was his ex-girlfriend, uh,

00:37:59.500 Caroline Ellison, and she took the stand and blamed it all on him. And basically what he's

00:38:04.140 accused of doing is having this crypto exchange, FTX, and this hedge fund investment firm called

00:38:09.080 Alameda. And his girlfriend was running Alameda and Alameda wasn't making very good investments.

00:38:14.340 Things were going South as the crypto market was deeply troubled. And instead of just being honest

00:38:19.160 about that and giving investors bad news, they started borrowing funds from FTX and the crypto

00:38:23.900 exchange. That's a no, no. And apparently there was a big meeting. She testified about it in Hong

00:38:29.540 Kong. She held it with her friends. She looks about 14 to think of this woman hosting a big meeting of

00:38:34.520 all the Alameda hedge fund people saying to them, um, the shit hit the fan and we kind of had to borrow

00:38:39.780 some money from FTX. And then some of the FTX people wanted their money back and we don't have it

00:38:44.700 to give. So that's bad. Anyway, she's blaming it all on Sam saying, this is all Sam's idea. This is his

00:38:50.520 vision. And that's pretty good testimony for the prosecution. Dave, his lawyers are painting him as a

00:38:58.100 hapless kind of doofus who didn't know what he was doing, wasn't committing fraud so much as negligent

00:39:06.200 management of a business. Do you think there's any chance this jury is going to buy that?

00:39:11.640 No, I, and I don't think he helped himself on the stand. He came across as arrogant, um, and a doofus. I mean,

00:39:16.540 he was asked to read something and he used like an infomercial voice, you know, and, and it really,

00:39:21.660 uh, came across like a Ms. Cleo voice, right? Exactly. Came across that he just wasn't taking

00:39:28.940 it that seriously. I mean, these are serious charges. And then he tried to conflate what he

00:39:33.140 did with just margin training trading, which is where you borrow funds to trade, but that's not

00:39:38.540 what he did. He was taking from accounts. He wasn't allowed to take from, it wasn't really margin

00:39:42.840 trading. And when they, when they went after him on that, on cross-examination, he pulled up Bill

00:39:47.600 Clinton and was like, well, it depends on what the definition of is, is type of thing. And it's not

00:39:52.640 going to go well before the jury. I think he's headed for a conviction. Hmm. You know, the judge

00:39:57.740 Mike said something like, I can't remember what the phraseology was, but something to the effect of

00:40:01.860 part of the problem here is Mr. Bankman Freed has a unique way of answering the questions and that

00:40:08.460 does telegraph. And he was annoying according to the lawyers and the journalists watching it.

00:40:12.940 That doesn't bode well for the jury to like him where you can see the judge. I mean,

00:40:17.700 the judge is so irritated. He has to make a comment like that. The other thing is

00:40:20.800 apparently on direct examination, he was loquacious. He was giving long answers,

00:40:25.460 but they were reasoned and they had, you know, a normal story arc to them. And then as soon as he

00:40:30.220 got on cross, it was, I don't remember. I don't remember. I have no idea. I can't remember anything.

00:40:35.000 He went right. I mean, you tell me, does any jury buy that when somebody remembers everything on direct

00:40:42.040 and then forgets it all when cross-examination starts? I mean, this guy is a total scumbag and

00:40:48.220 I am pretty confident, very confident that the jury is going to hate him and he's, it's not going

00:40:55.960 to end well for him. I think you're right. And, uh, I think it's going to be a pretty quick verdict.

00:41:01.180 He could be in jail for 20, 30, 40 years. I mean, realistically he could, he could easily get a

00:41:06.380 very hefty sentence. So we'll see. And then we'll have to deal with his, his parents who are also

00:41:11.500 taking the money, knowing about the problems with the company. Um, okay. Last but not least Israel

00:41:18.100 it's being accused as it has been since it began fighting back after the terrorist attack on it

00:41:24.880 now of war crimes. I mean, repeatedly, some people are using that word, those words against Israel,

00:41:30.400 but today the news is being dominated by an airstrike that happened yesterday in Northern

00:41:35.880 Gaza in the area of a large refugee camp. Uh, they were targeting a Hamas command and tunnel network

00:41:43.540 that as far as I can tell is not in dispute. It was right there. And, um, the Hamas and

00:41:50.980 related officials say many were killed and wounded. Once again, we have no idea what the truth is

00:41:55.320 because Hamas is a terrorist organization, like taking your death numbers from ISIS, but undoubtedly

00:42:00.620 some number of innocents or certainly civilians were killed. Um, Israel's military says it struck

00:42:06.980 them, including a commander who helped plan the October 7th terrorist attack on Israel.

00:42:12.220 And, uh, also they effectively targeted those terror tunnels right underneath it,

00:42:17.040 collapsing them and bringing them down. Wolf Blitzer had an Israeli military spokesperson on

00:42:22.440 and pressed him saying, you knew there were innocent civilians there. The IDF spokesperson said,

00:42:27.200 this is the tragedy of war. We told them move South. Uh, and Blitzer said, you decided to drop

00:42:32.680 the bomb. Anyway, the spokesman said, we're doing everything we can to minimize civilian deaths.

00:42:37.340 Sadly, the terrorists are hiding among civilians in Bremer and others now all over Twitter saying

00:42:42.740 it's a war crime, Mike, but this is a war crime, clear, plain, and simple. Do you agree?

00:42:46.560 I want these people to hear this clearly. They can go to hell. Israel just faced the worst

00:42:53.340 terrorist attack imaginable. We had over 1300 Israelis murdered, 31 Americans murdered. There were over

00:43:03.200 200 hostages that Hamas still has. They kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered women, children,

00:43:12.980 babies, the elderly, and the disabled. There is a report that Hamas killed a husband and raped

00:43:20.020 the wife while they baked the baby alive in the oven. So I do not want to hear anything from any of

00:43:26.800 these terrorist sympathizers. The only thing Gazans should be thankful for is that Israel has shown

00:43:33.320 so much restraint because Hamas is using Gazans as human shields. Hamas does not give a damn about

00:43:42.660 Gazans. They're committing war crimes and Israel is well within its rights, clearly within its rights,

00:43:49.020 to respond. And Gaza is lucky that Israel has not wiped it off the face of the damn map.

00:43:56.440 You know, Dave, it is a war crime to use human shields. Nobody talks about nobody. They go right

00:44:02.720 to, oh, Israel, you know, they don't talk about Hamas's daily war crimes.

00:44:05.900 Exactly. And Megan, I want to thank you and Mike for being so strong and combating this

00:44:14.120 misinformation with facts. You've been doing it for some time now. You know, the death count was

00:44:18.740 yesterday, according to Hamas, was 400. And now today it's 50. This is what happens when you depend

00:44:24.360 on an international terrorist group for your facts, for your facts, for your information.

00:44:28.100 The numbers will get revised. And look, no one wants any loss of innocent life, Israeli or

00:44:33.640 Palestinian. But you are right when it comes to international law. There is an international

00:44:38.580 humanitarian law treaty. Article 58A actually says that parties to a conflict are required

00:44:45.120 to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control

00:44:52.160 from the vicinity of military objectives. So Hamas purposely locates their military targets under

00:44:59.300 hospitals and in civilian areas. And it's Israel who gets blamed when they try to send in troops

00:45:06.900 and do anything but have wholesale massacres. They try to target and pinpoint the military.

00:45:13.160 And sometimes, sadly, the innocent Palestinians get to be our casualties of war. And that's awful.

00:45:19.180 And no one wants that. But that's the blame. Hamas. Hamas puts them in harm's way.

00:45:23.140 So if there is an international war crime, it's on Hamas, not on Israel.

00:45:27.340 I got to spend a minute asking about what's happening on the college campuses and in some

00:45:31.940 instances, public protests on the streets off of the college campuses. We played last week what

00:45:36.540 happened to this Jewish student at Harvard as he happened to walk by the, quote, die in that

00:45:42.300 these pro-Palestinian students were hosting. It wasn't enough for them to host their die in in support

00:45:48.380 of what happened to Israel. They actually chose to harass this Jewish student. We played what we

00:45:54.600 had of the tape, but now more of it from a different angle. And right before the piece we played

00:45:59.000 has been released, showing them physically laying hands on the guy and attacking him. Watch this.

00:46:03.760 Mike, we've seen them bring in the cops, consult with the FBI in Cornell, where that guy was just

00:46:26.800 arrested. Some 21-year-old student was arrested for those disgusting death threats against Jews.

00:46:31.920 They're saying slit their throats. Turns out to be some engineering student. How about this? This is also a crime.

00:46:37.680 Yeah, I would say this. This is outrageous that it is just blatant open season on Jewish Americans all over the

00:46:46.460 country, particularly on college campuses. And I would say this to the Biden Justice Department, to Kristen

00:46:53.200 Clark, who is the assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division. Where the hell are you, Kristen?

00:46:59.400 The Civil Rights Division has put out like 26 press announcements since October 7th, since Israel's most horrific

00:47:10.380 terrorist attack imaginable. Not one of those. Zero of those 26 have dealt with these clearly illegal,

00:47:20.300 under federal law, it is illegal. These are hate crimes that they are targeting Jewish people around

00:47:26.040 America, including Jewish students on college campuses. Not one statement has been put out

00:47:30.900 on this by the Civil Rights Division and the Justice Department. Where the hell is the Biden Justice

00:47:35.800 Department on these anti-Semitic attacks across the country, including on college campuses?

00:47:41.980 What about it, Dave?

00:47:43.800 Well, that video you show was so troubling. That kid was not attacked because he was Israeli. He was not

00:47:49.300 showing an Israeli flag. He was attacked because he was Jewish. And if the administration at Harvard,

00:47:54.400 my alma mater does not act, then shame on them because anti-Semitism is thriving on college

00:48:00.280 campuses. And it's in part enabled because of weak administrators who are so scared to stand up to

00:48:06.100 thugs like this. That is outrageous, what you just showed. And as far as the Biden administration,

00:48:10.920 look, I can't speak to Kristen Clark because I'm not as familiar with it as Mike is. But I can tell you

00:48:15.340 that President Biden has really been strong. His statements have been 100 percent on point.

00:48:19.800 He has shown his support to Israel since this has happened in such a strong way that it looks like

00:48:25.100 he's losing support amongst Arab constituents in Michigan. It could hurt his chances for re-election.

00:48:30.920 So I'm hopeful that cooler heads will prevail and we will stand with our ally, our only democracy in

00:48:36.240 the Middle East, and we'll do it on both sides of the aisle.

00:48:38.800 I know he's under increasing pressure from, I don't even know, the progressive flank,

00:48:45.820 the progressive woke flank of his party. It's hard to identify who's falling in, but we know it's,

00:48:51.100 you know, some constituents who are sort of the wokesters of the party trying to push him to be

00:48:56.320 more pro-Palestinians. So far, he's not going there. Mike and Dave, such a pleasure. What a great

00:49:01.960 hour, you guys. Thanks so much for being here.

00:49:03.480 Thank you. Thank you, Megan.

00:49:06.300 Okay, we're going to be right back with Maureen Callahan, and there is

00:49:09.340 so much to go over. Really looking forward to that. She's live here with me in studio. Don't go away.

00:49:17.900 Brittany, the Beckhams, Alicia Keys. There's so much to get to in our world outside of hard politics.

00:49:24.560 And joining me now here in the studio is Maureen Callahan. Maureen is one of my favorite writers,

00:49:29.340 and you can find her work at the Daily Mail. She's always worth clicking on. Always. Even if

00:49:34.680 I don't think I'm interested in what she's written on, I click on Maureen's article, and I realize

00:49:38.820 her column that I am. So, so great to have you here.

00:49:42.060 It's so great to be here, finally. Thank you, Megan.

00:49:44.460 Oh, my pleasure. Okay, so there is a lot to go over. I would like to kick it off where I left off

00:49:50.600 with our last panel, and that is the arrest of this guy for the anti-Jewish death threats

00:49:57.880 on Cornell campus. The guy's been arrested. His name is Patrick Dye, D-A-I, 21-year-old

00:50:04.200 engineering student, a junior. He's from Pittsburgh, New York. He posted messages on this

00:50:11.400 online campus chat thing like, fuck Israel. You should slit the Jews' throats. He personally

00:50:18.440 threatened to kill Jews. He said he was going to bring an assault rifle to campus, and on and on it

00:50:24.340 went, now his parents are speaking to the New York Post saying he was depressed. He was severely

00:50:29.960 depressed, and that's what led him to do it. I don't know, Maureen, whether he was depressed. I

00:50:35.300 don't really care whether he was depressed or not. That kind of rhetoric actually can get people spun

00:50:40.080 up. Maybe he was planning on doing it himself. Maybe he wasn't, but it's just probably the most

00:50:45.120 extreme example of what we're seeing on so many college campuses right now.

00:50:48.380 It is, and I was having this conversation last night, actually. I find it all the more shocking

00:50:53.760 it's happening in New York, a heavily Jewish city. I find it shocking the level of anti-Semitism

00:51:02.460 that has sprung up in just the past few weeks that now feels emboldened to be out in the open.

00:51:09.360 I was listening the other night to a student who had been behind the barricaded door at another

00:51:16.380 university in New York City. Cooper Union? Yes. She was saying something that I found had been left

00:51:21.920 out of a lot of reportage, which was the Jewish students who were taking refuge in this room

00:51:26.900 got in this room, closed the door, and then realized the door did not lock from the inside.

00:51:32.780 The door only locked from the outside. So here are these pro-Palestinian agitators coming after them,

00:51:39.740 and you can only imagine the thoughts that are going through their minds. All they have to do is lock

00:51:43.840 the door, set a fire. I mean, nothing is off the table right now. And it's, it feels a little bit,

00:51:51.980 it's a low bar to say it's heartening that this student has been arrested. One of many

00:51:57.400 who have given voice to this. Who knows if they even would have sent the cops to go look into this

00:52:02.120 if finally they hadn't gotten loud at Cornell. The Jewish students there have been through it

00:52:06.100 these past few weeks. Like, Cornell's done absolutely nothing. I mean, they've really let these

00:52:10.420 Jewish students, you know, fend for themselves. Don't go to the dining hall. You might not be

00:52:14.080 safe. That's not the answer. You will go safe. You will, you will be safe. I, as the president

00:52:18.580 of the university, will eat there every night myself to make sure that you are safe. And I will

00:52:22.720 bring in, I will spend endowment money to bring in security, to bring in police. It's not you stay

00:52:28.360 home. So great. Okay. They arrested the guy who was making actual death threats, but I'm not exactly

00:52:33.460 ready to take out my violin for the administrators. Nevermind this guy. What did you say, Steve,

00:52:38.880 that we have that soundbite Maureen was talking about of the, of one of the girls who was in

00:52:42.080 Cooper union? Oh, okay. Okay. Let's play. Stop four.

00:52:46.040 You know what I'm just realizing? I'm pretty sure that's my old apartment building. I'm pretty,

00:53:15.040 I lived in a building that was mostly Orthodox. And we were like one of the only Gentiles. We were

00:53:20.120 so well treated and well loved, but I, we felt like honorary Jews. We went to so many Shabbat

00:53:25.600 dinners, but I recognize the church across the street. And, um, there's, there's a very high

00:53:30.300 Jewish population on the Upper West side. That's where they were. They're thugs. Those were their

00:53:34.520 women. It's usually a term we associate with men. They're thugs. They're disgusting. And it's

00:53:39.080 happening. Like you point out in a Jewish enclave. I mean, everywhere. It's terrifying. I mean, to see

00:53:45.720 the stars of David spray painted on homes in Paris and New York, it, it, it, it's shocking. It's,

00:53:54.700 you know, I was listening this morning to one of the New York times is podcast, the daily coverage of

00:54:02.460 this war. And they, they devoted half an hour to talking about how unfair it was of Israel not to

00:54:11.240 give the Palestinians and the world at large, basically their playbook for how they're going

00:54:16.700 to retaliate, how they're going to try to recover these 200 hostages that let's be real. Hamas is

00:54:23.340 using as human shields to see these protesters, many of whom in New York city identify as non-binary

00:54:31.040 LGBTQ plus waving the Palestinian flag. When this is a group that would throw you off the nearest roof

00:54:39.680 at the first available opportunity is mind blowing. And to your point about the universities and their

00:54:47.440 spineless reaction to this antisemitism, all you have to do is imagine any other cohort threatened

00:54:54.320 in such a manner, any other minority cohort and the reactions on these left-leaning campuses.

00:55:03.120 They say that the way to determine whether it's antisemitism, because you can criticize the Israeli

00:55:08.620 government all you want. I mean, many in this country have been doing that very robustly for the

00:55:12.260 past year plus, as they've had this massive judicial dispute over there, the internal Israeli politics,

00:55:17.120 many people have been critical of Israel, of Netanyahu. That's not antisemitism. This is. And they say

00:55:23.960 the definition is, one of the definitions of antisemitism is, if it's reserved for this group, if you

00:55:29.940 wouldn't be getting into these criticisms, if it were another group, then it's antisemitism. And since

00:55:35.700 when, you know, I was talking about the other day about 9-11 and we went and we bombed the hell out of

00:55:39.420 Afghanistan, nobody was going into Afghani villages and saying, reporting live on the number of

00:55:44.020 civilians who have been taken out by the U.S.'s latest bomb, it was over here to bomb them to

00:55:49.460 smithereens. We're sad if civilians get caught in the crossfire, but this is about making sure the

00:55:55.240 people who tried to kill us can come back and try again. You know, and that's what Israel's saying,

00:56:00.120 but totally different standard. Totally different standard. And the lack of moral clarity, you know,

00:56:05.540 again, goes unremarked upon in most of the media. It was over two weeks before Israel began its

00:56:11.480 incursion. Over two weeks, that shows remarkable restraint. It says a lot about the power of

00:56:17.240 American foreign policy that they did hold back. The lack of moral clarity in the immediate

00:56:26.560 aftermath of the Hamas terrorist attack, when you saw leftist groups in this country begin to co-opt

00:56:34.380 the paragliders that were used to swoop in. When you saw the unbelievable footage of women

00:56:44.140 being kidnapped, that poor tattoo artist who we now know was beheaded in the back of a pickup truck.

00:56:52.080 And the immediate reaction on the left in America is this is Israel's fault. This is all Israel's

00:56:58.020 fault. They kind of had it coming. The same group that's been lecturing us in particular,

00:57:02.260 let's talk about the women, right? They want us to believe they're, they're pro woman,

00:57:06.420 that they would always stand up for women's rights. And they're like, there's no proof of rapes.

00:57:11.620 Okay. So there is, there are tons of proof of rapes. There's firsthand eyewitness testimonials.

00:57:17.080 There's women with bloody pants who then got their brains blown out. We could go down the list,

00:57:22.740 but that's not good enough for them. I don't know what is proof. If you don't, if,

00:57:26.920 if one person coming and saying, I saw the woman get raped next to me, isn't proof what is,

00:57:32.600 but how about murder? Is that, does that get you upset? Cause there's a lot of women murdered.

00:57:36.280 That's not good enough either. And I saw you raising this point. It was a very good one

00:57:40.640 about Alicia Keys, who I think we are on the same page is lying about her initial support. And I'm sure

00:57:49.420 it's sustained for Hamas. She posted that ridiculous photo of herself days after the terrorist attack.

00:57:57.600 And it was before Israel had really engaged in its response. So you can't even say here it is

00:58:03.160 that it was about, Oh, they were killing too many civilians. She's wearing what the Palestinian flag

00:58:08.560 colors. And she posted about how she was one thing she really was looking at trying was paragliding

00:58:16.580 paragliding. And then of course, and she had somebody post it on two of her social media

00:58:21.380 sites. It was like Insta and Tik TOK, two, two different platforms. And then of course was

00:58:26.020 forced to take it down when the backlash started to roll in. Now she's claiming, I just like paragliding.

00:58:31.940 What do you get off my case? I'm very pro Jewish people and pro Israel. No, you misunderstood me.

00:58:36.720 Oh, please. The four side eye emojis next to I'm thinking of paragliding dot, dot, dot, dot,

00:58:41.660 dot. She was all but smirking in that photo. I still am shocked that she has not been canceled

00:58:48.200 by major corporations. You know, she is the voice of all state. When you see those commercials,

00:58:53.120 that is the voice you're hearing that friendly, velvety voice. She should lose that, that sponsorship.

00:58:59.580 She should lose that, that job. I don't understand. And then to have Gai Osiri, who is a very prominent

00:59:05.880 Israeli American. He's like one of the biggest music managers in the business has worked with

00:59:11.720 Madonna forever. You two forever to very always pro Israel acts come out and allow her to hide

00:59:19.020 behind his skirt and say, Oh, this is not the Alicia that you think, you know, we, she loves the Jewish

00:59:24.940 people. She's pro Israel. She you're misunderstanding. It's like, who are you going to believe mirror your

00:59:29.860 lying eyes, right? Who the hell wears Palestinian colors all over them and posts about wanting to

00:59:37.700 paraglide within days of the Hamas terror attack using paragliders and says, Oh gee, I just, I didn't

00:59:45.000 mean anything by it. Bullshit. Everyone's letting her get away with it because she once did a concert

00:59:50.420 in Israel. Well, I mean, if we're going to go down to facts like that, she's married to an Egyptian man,

00:59:54.420 she or to a Muslim man. She has a son named Egypt. Like you could make the argument either way. If

01:00:00.000 you're just going to go with her random appearances or associations, I'm going by what she posted

01:00:04.160 100% and not for nothing. Then she took it down. Yeah. And she can't even make her own statement.

01:00:09.720 Have the courage of your convictions. If you feel emboldened enough to post something that

01:00:13.560 incendiary that, you know, is going to be a flashpoint and quite likely let's give her benefit of the doubt

01:00:18.560 misunderstood say, right. Then you should have the courage of your convictions to stand up and say,

01:00:23.040 I am mortified that anybody would take it in this manner. I apologize. I stand strongly with the

01:00:29.540 people of Israel. This was a terrorist attack. Women and babies were murdered and beheaded.

01:00:35.680 There are old women who need medication, who let's be real. They're being raped and tortured right now.

01:00:41.740 And she, she's, she sits quietly and allows somebody else to clean up her mess. It's disgusting.

01:00:46.920 Her statement she put out was so anodyne. It was like, I'm, I'm against suffering of any kind.

01:00:51.080 Who isn't? You're right. Oh, profound. I'm really feeling it. Thank you. Thanks for feeling their

01:00:56.340 pain. But you've been pointing out. It's not just Alicia Keys, the entire Hollywood crowd for the

01:01:01.500 most part, that's been lecturing us for years on women's rights on you name it. All the woke causes

01:01:08.920 very quick to speak out. If they see an injustice of any kind, oddly silent right now, Maureen.

01:01:14.640 It's, it's, it's shocking to me. It's shocking to me. It, it, it's why I feel this is so worrisome.

01:01:21.220 It's, it's there. Somebody said to me, you know, if the, if the October 7th attack surprised you,

01:01:28.020 if the level of antisemitism in the world surprised you, then you haven't really been paying attention.

01:01:32.900 But I think I'm somebody who does pay attention as you are somebody who pays deep attention.

01:01:37.400 And still I am shocked. Same. I did not realize it was this deep and this widespread and this abiding

01:01:43.600 and this waiting for a sort of opening in the ether to allow it to just spread and mushroom.

01:01:52.740 And I suspect we will watch the Oscars this year and there will be nary a celebrity with a ribbon

01:02:01.220 or whatever sort of accoutrement. Think about the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris

01:02:06.040 and they all were adorning themselves and we stand with free speech and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:11.440 I mean, again, this was a terrorist attack.

01:02:13.820 Well, you pointed out one of your columns, Boko Haram.

01:02:16.420 Boko Haram, bring back our girls. There was no moral hand-wringing about the geopolitical torment

01:02:22.320 that must have brought this terrorist attack upon these young women. It was the West uniting.

01:02:28.600 And, you know, again, our fearless celebrities saying,

01:02:33.520 this is wrong. This is an atrocity. Bring these girls and women home.

01:02:38.160 Bring back our girls.

01:02:38.940 Bring back our girls. You know, the moral, you know, bastions of TikTok.

01:02:43.300 Hashtag bring back our girls.

01:02:45.000 Instead, now it's the effective equivalent of tearing down the posters of the hostages,

01:02:49.280 which is what, you know, a lot of these people are cheering.

01:02:51.980 Kylie Jenner taking down her tweet in support of Israel.

01:02:55.380 Again, in the hours after this horrendous attack, she tweeted something sympathetic toward them.

01:03:00.460 No, she had to take it down.

01:03:02.300 And then Amy Schumer, who is Jewish, has been saying all the right things.

01:03:07.580 You know, like, this is horrific.

01:03:08.980 Look what happened to these poor women, these children, these innocents.

01:03:11.800 And she's been getting so much shit, but she's standing her ground.

01:03:16.160 She's like one of the only ones I can think of who's really like,

01:03:19.440 pour it on. I don't care.

01:03:20.740 Yeah. Jerry Seinfeld, Sacha Baron Cohen, you know, very few, very, very few.

01:03:27.240 And it's.

01:03:32.500 Hollywood has always been a moral rot of hypocrisy.

01:03:35.380 You know, I think now we're just really seeing it.

01:03:37.060 We're just really, really seeing it.

01:03:38.700 That list of people who signed the other letter, right, demanding an immediate ceasefire,

01:03:43.100 was was very long, too, with some very well-known names.

01:03:46.500 I mean, please, Alyssa Milano, right?

01:03:48.120 It's awful. Wanda Sykes, OK, whatever.

01:03:50.900 But Channing Tatum, now I'm not allowed to watch Magic Mike.

01:03:54.480 It's just like it's amazing that people would sign their name to something like that.

01:03:57.820 And what's happening is it's morphing suddenly into.

01:04:02.100 Well, it's just an old, old conflict, you know, that goes back for thousands of years.

01:04:06.720 And Israel has done bad things.

01:04:08.940 And the Palestinians were kind of forced to do some bad things as a result of the evil Israel.

01:04:13.000 So everything needs to be, quote, contextualized.

01:04:15.780 Yes.

01:04:16.080 And that is how now this same crowd that was cheering within moments of the dead babies on

01:04:21.040 October 7th is now trying to justify itself by saying, well, you know, look at the Israeli

01:04:26.160 response.

01:04:27.020 You know, that that's really what I'm upset with.

01:04:29.300 And I know we know it's a lie.

01:04:31.380 Bullshit.

01:04:32.000 You cheered moments after the original attack.

01:04:34.500 All you have to do is listen to those who survived that attack on Israel on October 7th.

01:04:41.820 There was an incredible story on 60 Minutes of a grandfather who was former IDF, who basically

01:04:48.120 traversed miles and miles and miles to get to his family that was hiding in a safe house

01:04:53.460 and along the way saved about three other lives.

01:04:55.980 But when you you the unfathomable assault on civilians ripped from their homes in the middle

01:05:04.740 of the night, when you think about the sophistication of this attack, you know, it took an ISIS level

01:05:09.640 attack to an unthinkable level and the next one will be even worse.

01:05:13.520 It will be even worse.

01:05:14.920 But one of the the.

01:05:18.100 Things about attacking people in their homes as they sleep is.

01:05:21.980 It takes them a minute or two to realize what's going on.

01:05:25.260 They're still in that liminal state of am I awake?

01:05:27.680 Am I having a nightmare?

01:05:28.660 What's happening?

01:05:29.220 Is there somebody in my house?

01:05:31.060 Does is somebody somebody have my child, my baby?

01:05:34.120 Am I am I being you know that the sophistication with which this this was executed is, I think,

01:05:41.020 again, also an incredible failure of U.S.

01:05:43.900 intelligence, of Israeli intelligence.

01:05:46.120 There was a report in The Wall Street Journal today that the United States basically stopped

01:05:49.960 spying on Hamas the minute the September 11th attacks happened and turned its focus

01:05:55.140 purely to Al-Qaeda.

01:05:57.500 So there's a lot to be learned from this still.

01:06:01.060 But I just cannot fathom anybody excusing, contextualizing what has happened.

01:06:10.380 And we still don't know what will become of these 200 hostages when you think about the

01:06:16.320 Iran hostage crisis.

01:06:17.720 I mean, that was the beginning of Nightline, right?

01:06:19.660 Yeah.

01:06:19.880 It was every night, 11, 1130.

01:06:22.520 What is going on with the hostages?

01:06:23.900 What is the United States doing?

01:06:25.020 What is the world community doing?

01:06:26.740 Will they be returned safely?

01:06:28.160 Are they being treated humanely?

01:06:30.360 It's blanket silence.

01:06:32.000 And not to mention, I think it's the death toll of Americans.

01:06:34.960 Americans and the attack that's already gone down is now over 30.

01:06:38.740 It's the worst terrorist attack on Americans since 9-11.

01:06:42.000 But these people pulling down the posters on the Upper West Side, totally ignorant of

01:06:46.340 it.

01:06:46.720 Don't give a shit about it because you know what?

01:06:48.360 They were in Israel.

01:06:49.120 So F them.

01:06:49.860 Um, and yet there are, there are some heroes emerging.

01:06:54.320 There are new videos every night.

01:06:56.000 God bless the iPhone warriors who go out there and film those who are tearing down the posters

01:06:59.920 because then we post their pictures online.

01:07:02.220 They get identified and yes, they get fired.

01:07:04.400 And I'm totally fine with it.

01:07:06.040 Fire their asses.

01:07:07.160 You support terrorists.

01:07:08.600 You should be fired.

01:07:09.760 I keep going back.

01:07:10.920 I realized there've been a million cancellations that we could go back to.

01:07:13.640 But Chris Harrison of the bachelor really sticks in my craw of all the ones, this super nice

01:07:20.840 guy, right?

01:07:21.640 He's not a controversial figure.

01:07:23.720 One contestant on the bachelorette had once attended an antebellum party, like in the deep

01:07:29.220 South, you know, pretending that they were in the deep South and she wound up on the show.

01:07:33.660 It turned into a huge thing.

01:07:35.420 He just said, are we judging her by like the standards that we're using right now against

01:07:39.360 people or by standards we used to, you know, when she did it just a few years ago, the

01:07:44.140 things that it was different, right?

01:07:46.500 Fired.

01:07:47.320 He was the bachelor host.

01:07:48.680 You thought of the bachelor fired for that completely benign comment.

01:07:54.560 And yet you've got these people out there.

01:07:57.000 Nothing.

01:07:57.620 Nobody's getting canceled.

01:07:58.860 It's all like my mind.

01:08:01.600 It can't process how awful these people are and how they're not getting canceled.

01:08:06.400 So I'm happy to see them fired.

01:08:07.740 I don't care if they're famous or not famous, happy to assist in their terminations.

01:08:11.840 They shouldn't be operating on Jews, delivering babies for Jews, all that stuff.

01:08:16.560 Can you imagine?

01:08:17.260 Agreed.

01:08:17.480 And I don't want them doing that stuff on me either.

01:08:19.620 However, the good news is people like Pauly, the guy in Queens, right?

01:08:26.320 Who got after that guy the other night, the other day, who was like, I'm going to, I'm

01:08:30.160 going to litter the floor with you in a minute.

01:08:31.700 He's like, you don't have the right to pull down those posters.

01:08:33.560 You can say what you want, but you can't pull those posters.

01:08:35.380 Well, somebody caught up with our hero, Pauly, and asked him about what it's like to be a

01:08:40.920 superstar now.

01:08:41.820 And here's what he said.

01:08:42.960 No, I'm not a superstar.

01:08:44.120 I'm just a regular guy who didn't like what I saw.

01:08:46.840 And it shouldn't be celebrated what I did.

01:08:50.160 It should be normal.

01:08:51.680 Everyone should react like that.

01:08:53.040 This shouldn't be a news story because someone doesn't like posters of murdered children

01:09:00.480 and kidnapped children being taken down.

01:09:02.740 This should be the norm, not the exception.

01:09:05.540 What that guy was doing should be the exception.

01:09:08.960 Look at that.

01:09:10.500 That's New York for you.

01:09:11.840 That is New York for you.

01:09:12.960 That is common sense for you.

01:09:14.620 That is no bullshit for you.

01:09:16.420 And like, he's humble too.

01:09:18.220 You know, he doesn't want attention.

01:09:19.360 He's not going to call himself a superstar.

01:09:20.700 He wasn't looking to be made famous.

01:09:22.740 Will he be the next bachelor, you think?

01:09:25.480 Is he seeing anyone?

01:09:27.140 Right.

01:09:27.760 Asking for a friend.

01:09:29.340 We'll see if we can find out.

01:09:30.660 I love Pauly.

01:09:31.740 One of these days, I'm going to get Pauly on the show.

01:09:34.860 It's my dream.

01:09:36.180 Before we move off of the absence of, you know, forceful statements from these celebrities,

01:09:40.060 or in some cases, any statements, can we spend a minute on the king and queen of woke,

01:09:45.260 Harry and Meghan?

01:09:46.200 Always.

01:09:46.540 I mean, I, I don't, she's injected herself into every terrible story so she can look like

01:09:53.820 the caring princess.

01:09:55.760 Haven't seen it here, Maureen.

01:09:57.540 Such a great point.

01:09:59.060 Such a great point.

01:10:00.860 Now, I think Meghan's worst action among many was flying herself down to Uvalde in the aftermath

01:10:08.540 of that shooting.

01:10:09.920 Shooting, having herself photographed, laying flowers, making it known that she brought food

01:10:14.880 to people, somebody who was completely unwelcome, had no reason to be there.

01:10:19.700 You know, grief like that is sacred and it's profound and nobody has use for you and your

01:10:25.800 little Netflix crew.

01:10:28.920 I find this fascinating amongst, as she's, you know, attempting her eight millionth relaunch,

01:10:36.020 because maybe this time America will like her.

01:10:38.100 Maybe this time we'll just get her special sauce.

01:10:42.060 She's been extremely quiet and one can only wonder why.

01:10:49.300 And they're saying she wants to run for office.

01:10:51.660 So, okay, take a position.

01:10:53.820 This is exactly the kind of thing on which a politician is going to have to take a position,

01:10:57.800 but she won't.

01:10:58.720 So why?

01:10:59.420 Why won't she?

01:11:00.040 Well, I think for one thing, she wants to be handed a seat, you know, much in the way

01:11:06.160 Caroline Kennedy wanted Hillary Clinton's vacant Senate seat.

01:11:09.640 I think she wants Dianne Feinstein's vacant Senate seat.

01:11:11.920 She's that delusional.

01:11:13.240 God help us.

01:11:13.920 Right.

01:11:14.540 So, you know, I, again, it's a low bar to clear to say I am against the murder of innocent

01:11:21.920 civilians, women, children, the infirm, the elderly.

01:11:25.620 I am against home invasions by terrorists who are cowards, who are going after the most

01:11:32.200 vulnerable.

01:11:33.700 But I, it's apparently too much of a flashpoint.

01:11:38.200 It surprises me too, given that her agent in charge of her rebrand is Ari Emanuel, one

01:11:43.840 of the most powerful Jewish men in Hollywood.

01:11:46.320 But we've seen that, that wing of the progressive party, you know, there's the, there's the Democrats

01:11:52.300 and then there's the progressive wing and then there's this woke piece of the progressive

01:11:56.120 wing that has been pro Hamas.

01:11:58.500 They just have been, you know, the BLM statements, the weird trans flag merged with the Palestinian

01:12:04.460 flag.

01:12:05.380 Okay.

01:12:05.740 Have you done any homework?

01:12:07.300 And she's part of it.

01:12:08.880 So I can't help but think she's more in line with the BLM Chicago crew than she is with you

01:12:16.520 and with me on this.

01:12:17.560 Otherwise it would be a no brainer to put out a statement.

01:12:20.620 You know, I saw in a Maureen Callahan column, Oprah, same.

01:12:25.800 What about Oprah?

01:12:26.800 Where's she?

01:12:27.620 Yeah.

01:12:28.260 Yes.

01:12:29.240 Oprah, America's secular moral leader.

01:12:32.340 Oprah, who, as we now know from the Mitt Romney biography, was floating herself as a joint

01:12:38.560 ticket.

01:12:39.080 Yeah.

01:12:39.860 So somebody with the delusions of grandeur that she should be running the world, right?

01:12:44.720 The woman who foisted the secret upon us, the woman who foisted Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil

01:12:50.160 upon us, can't come down and make the moral determination that, again, is just so clear

01:12:57.920 that this is wrong, that Hamas are terrorists.

01:13:01.240 She put out something, right?

01:13:02.420 Something vague, something lily-livered, something, you know, that was not going to off-put, I

01:13:08.060 suppose.

01:13:08.800 And by the way, it was behind a paywall.

01:13:10.200 So I remember trying to access this for my column and talking to my editor and going,

01:13:15.060 this is behind a $35 paywall.

01:13:17.800 Oh, my God.

01:13:18.340 I have to pay to hear Oprah denounce, ostensibly denounce Hamas?

01:13:22.920 Wow.

01:13:24.020 Yeah, there's no real courage.

01:13:25.720 No.

01:13:25.920 And I guess, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised, but we should call it out because it's ridiculous.

01:13:29.500 And by the way, to be contrasted with the actual future king and queen, the prince and

01:13:35.440 princess of Wales, who said very simply, this is from your piece, quote, the horrors inflicted

01:13:40.180 by Hamas's terrorist attack upon Israel are appalling.

01:13:43.300 William and Kate utterly condemn them.

01:13:45.720 Done.

01:13:46.400 Great.

01:13:47.020 And then they went on to say the Jewish nation has a right to self-defense.

01:13:50.260 It's really not that hard, right?

01:13:51.780 It's really-

01:13:52.300 It's not that hard.

01:13:53.280 It's not that hard.

01:13:53.960 Yeah, but they won't because they're trying, I think they're trying to appease their woke

01:13:57.400 mob and they're part of it.

01:13:58.940 I mean, in the case of the Sussexes, they're part of it.

01:14:01.140 Um, okay, let's turn the page because I definitely am dying to discuss something much lighter

01:14:05.920 with you, but it's been on my mind.

01:14:07.840 Um, I don't know if the audience has watched the Beckham documentary.

01:14:11.600 I mean, using that term loosely documentary, but it's about David Beckham.

01:14:15.640 I'm not into European quote football, right?

01:14:19.020 My daughter plays soccer here.

01:14:20.080 I like that, but I don't know really many of the players.

01:14:22.500 It's not my thing in the way it is over in the UK, but this guy, I didn't know I was

01:14:26.880 interested in David Beckham until we were like, okay, everybody's talking about it.

01:14:29.420 Let's watch it.

01:14:29.900 And I think it's four episodes each or like an hour and a half.

01:14:32.300 So it's a hefty investment of your time.

01:14:34.400 And they do suck you right in.

01:14:35.760 You're like, oh yeah, look at this.

01:14:37.000 I mean, they're, they're beautiful.

01:14:38.160 They're rich.

01:14:38.740 They're famous.

01:14:39.240 It's like their beautiful homes are shown in the documentary or whatever.

01:14:44.080 And so you're pulled in like, I like to see how they live.

01:14:47.920 And I'd like to know she doesn't say anything publicly ever, right?

01:14:51.260 She's only known for her, you know, that face right there we're showing where she doesn't

01:14:54.700 smile in any of her.

01:14:56.600 Yeah.

01:14:56.960 Right.

01:14:57.540 So it kind of leads to an impression that maybe she's a bitch.

01:15:00.420 I don't know.

01:15:01.040 Dour, unhappy.

01:15:02.580 What a surprise.

01:15:03.860 Mm hmm.

01:15:04.480 She isn't.

01:15:05.500 Mm hmm.

01:15:06.280 But I said to you when you sat down on the set, I watched the thing.

01:15:10.240 I'm like, I love this.

01:15:11.320 This is so interesting to me.

01:15:12.640 What a life.

01:15:13.300 What a guy.

01:15:13.780 And then I read your piece after I was like, I have been fooled again because I agreed

01:15:23.120 with virtually all of your points in there about what was really going on and the obvious

01:15:29.420 now that you pointed out, you know, I got sucked in more.

01:15:31.400 But the obvious massaging of the message and the skipping past scandals I didn't even know

01:15:37.480 about because they chose not to feature them.

01:15:38.880 Exactly.

01:15:39.540 Scandals that, by the way, have been largely scrubbed from the Internet.

01:15:42.400 You can maybe find the one affair that was sort of the the real corker that there was.

01:15:48.720 They made a vague reference to it that somebody had accused him.

01:15:52.060 That's all I thought there was.

01:15:53.100 Mm hmm.

01:15:53.460 Keep going.

01:15:54.220 So there were there were more than one.

01:15:56.500 But the UK press, their libel laws are so stringent that they were only able to report

01:16:00.040 on this one because she had video and text messages and all this corroborating evidence

01:16:05.080 that he could not really sue for.

01:16:08.620 I thought the Beckham documentary was fascinating.

01:16:11.140 I, too, was like, I don't care about English football.

01:16:13.620 You know, Beckham, he's fine, whatever.

01:16:16.080 It really struck such a marrow.

01:16:17.900 It was 90s nostalgia.

01:16:19.920 It's a kind of global fame.

01:16:22.220 You know, this coupling, the superstar at their height.

01:16:25.180 They were sort of just this incredibly.

01:16:31.040 Fascinating, yet also tacky couple, you know, the purple thrones at their wedding and

01:16:36.280 Beckingham Palace and all of that.

01:16:38.140 And that is the documentary proceeds.

01:16:41.880 You see there's this other story.

01:16:43.820 There's Victoria Beckham, who is actually keeping her family together.

01:16:48.100 As David Beckham continually does this thing that is, I found, incredibly cruel and passive

01:16:54.720 aggressive, where multiple times they would settle in another country for his work, for

01:17:00.480 his job, get the children all enrolled in schools.

01:17:04.060 And she's getting a little life going for all of them.

01:17:06.320 And then he'll call and say, I'm switching teams and we're moving to another country.

01:17:09.760 And she'll say, when?

01:17:10.880 And he'll say 12 hours.

01:17:12.300 Yeah.

01:17:12.740 And this happens more than once.

01:17:14.780 Right.

01:17:15.460 And there are also moments where he's undercutting what she's saying.

01:17:20.460 That moment, I found it strange in the documentary where she's talking about how they were both

01:17:24.300 working class.

01:17:25.100 Wait, we have that.

01:17:25.700 We have that.

01:17:26.200 I'll tee it up and then you can take it.

01:17:27.700 Yeah.

01:17:27.820 And this is side 11.

01:17:30.440 Both of our parents work really hard.

01:17:32.940 We're very working, working class.

01:17:35.420 Be honest.

01:17:36.560 I am being honest.

01:17:38.160 What car did your dad drive you to school in?

01:17:40.520 So my dad did.

01:17:41.980 No.

01:17:42.360 One answer.

01:17:42.780 My dad.

01:17:43.640 What car was it?

01:17:44.220 It's not a simple answer because.

01:17:46.080 What car did you get your dad to drive you to school in?

01:17:48.860 It depends.

01:17:49.740 No, no, no, no, no.

01:17:50.660 Okay.

01:17:51.340 In the 80s, my dad had a Rolls Royce.

01:17:53.700 Thank you.

01:17:56.880 Door slam.

01:17:58.480 That one was funny.

01:17:59.900 It was great.

01:18:00.560 But I thought it was so telling.

01:18:02.020 He was outside listening to her one-on-one interview and he heard something he didn't

01:18:07.540 like and that wasn't part of the narrative that he preferred.

01:18:11.400 And so in he comes and he's grilling her like a prosecutor.

01:18:14.760 It's like the OJ trial.

01:18:16.180 I would kill Doug if he did that to me.

01:18:17.840 What kind of car?

01:18:18.480 What kind of car?

01:18:19.100 What kind of car?

01:18:19.700 No, be honest.

01:18:21.380 Yeah.

01:18:21.860 A Rolls Royce.

01:18:22.640 Heaven forbid, you know.

01:18:23.900 I want the truth.

01:18:25.000 Yeah.

01:18:25.280 She's keeping Brandt Beckham together.

01:18:27.240 She's just doing this little heavy lift over here, you know.

01:18:30.180 But and I found it fascinating, too, because I always watch documentaries like that that

01:18:34.660 have clearly been commissioned by the star involved and then sign on a director who's

01:18:40.780 willing to cue to a particular narrative.

01:18:43.100 Same with Harry and Meghan, where they still manage to leave in these telling details that

01:18:48.300 clue the audience into what the editors and the filmmakers really think of these subjects

01:18:53.100 with the Harry and Meghan one.

01:18:54.760 For me, it was the moment where she did that deep mocking curtsy.

01:18:57.700 Yes.

01:18:58.040 And he's looking on silent, but with this very pained, humiliated expression.

01:19:01.880 And she she, you know, lifts herself up with this very self-satisfied smirk.

01:19:07.440 And that was it.

01:19:08.720 That that to me was the damning, defining moment of that six hour.

01:19:13.060 So true.

01:19:13.740 You know, and I feel the same thing was was true with the Beckham documentary, even getting

01:19:17.980 an insight into just his rampant OCD.

01:19:20.580 Oh, it was crazy.

01:19:22.060 And how insane it must be to live with him.

01:19:23.940 Well, you can see how this person who achieved unbelievable success on the soccer field,

01:19:27.800 football field, you know, had such success because like a like a Kobe Bryant, he just

01:19:33.620 outworked everybody.

01:19:34.660 Yeah.

01:19:34.780 He just put way more time into it.

01:19:37.020 But he now in retirement from actually playing, at least.

01:19:41.620 What do you do with all that OCD, all that energy, all that lifetime of experience of doing

01:19:45.320 something over and over and over and over?

01:19:46.880 Well, we saw.

01:19:47.840 Yeah.

01:19:48.040 I mean, the scene in the kitchen where he's like scooping out the ashes from the candles

01:19:52.340 and like placing everything back.

01:19:54.820 And then and Victoria is looking on from the dining room and he's saying to her, well, where

01:19:58.820 are you going?

01:19:59.240 What are you doing?

01:19:59.840 And she's going, I'm going to work.

01:20:01.000 And he's like, work.

01:20:02.440 What work?

01:20:03.160 You know, like almost mocking her.

01:20:05.200 Yes.

01:20:05.840 And then, well, he he knew he was like, oh, is it your fashion brand?

01:20:09.340 And finally, she's like, no, I'm getting a facial.

01:20:11.540 And he's like, uh-huh.

01:20:12.840 But it was almost like, oh, wow.

01:20:15.060 OK, like that didn't make her look good.

01:20:17.600 Nor did that Rolls Royce thing make her look good.

01:20:20.220 Right.

01:20:20.680 And, you know, normally like Doug Brunt, my husband has been sitting in this chair and

01:20:24.920 everything he said was he's just a sweet, loving man who would love to make me look good.

01:20:28.900 He would never be doing daggers.

01:20:31.780 Little jabs.

01:20:32.620 Little jabs.

01:20:32.940 Little jabs that you think aren't really leaving fingerprints or that if you were to

01:20:36.400 respond to, you would look like you were overreacting.

01:20:39.220 Yes.

01:20:39.660 And that was the needle I think Victoria was trying to thread.

01:20:42.300 Instead, I read that Beckham had been having dinner with Leonardo DiCaprio and said, I

01:20:47.440 want to make a documentary about my life.

01:20:49.620 Do you think Netflix would be interested?

01:20:52.220 So.

01:20:52.620 Hell yes.

01:20:53.400 Right.

01:20:53.860 So but this is his legacy play, right?

01:20:55.920 This is enshrining the Beckham legend.

01:20:58.800 That's what it should be called.

01:20:59.740 Beckham.

01:21:00.460 My story.

01:21:01.380 Yeah.

01:21:01.800 Like first person.

01:21:02.620 And so we all it's very disclosed, you know, as opposed to it's not a documentary where

01:21:06.880 the filmmaker really does go to wherever he or she wants to go and the subject agrees

01:21:12.580 that that's how this is going to go down.

01:21:14.180 Right.

01:21:14.560 And it's the documentarians take on the subject matter he or she is taking on, not, you know,

01:21:20.000 where you've been patted on the head.

01:21:21.520 I like Fisher Stevens who did it.

01:21:23.040 Sure.

01:21:23.680 But very clearly everything in there is meant to not upset the Beckhams.

01:21:28.060 Yeah.

01:21:28.560 Yeah.

01:21:28.860 So it made for it's still made for an interesting viewing experience, I thought.

01:21:33.120 Well, the other tell was and I know that you notice this, too, but it jumped out at me

01:21:37.840 when he was traded.

01:21:39.480 I think this is when he was traded to Spain and he didn't want to leave Manchester United,

01:21:43.380 the team that he had been drafted to when he was 17, whatever the proper word is.

01:21:47.320 Right.

01:21:47.700 And but he got booted by the guy who runs that team.

01:21:51.280 He was I think he thought Beckham was getting too big ahead.

01:21:54.200 So he let him go.

01:21:55.900 So he needed to find another job.

01:21:57.040 But that the abrupt we're moving to Spain in 12 hours happened and it was jarring.

01:22:00.660 And this led to the alleged affair because they made a big deal of pointing out he stayed.

01:22:05.200 He had to go to Spain.

01:22:06.280 She stayed.

01:22:06.960 She had two young ones in school.

01:22:08.520 And he talks about, oh, well, you know, I was lonely.

01:22:11.020 I was lonely.

01:22:12.620 But then he had to give a press conference when he got to Madrid and she flew over for it.

01:22:17.860 And this is what he's done to his wife, who's been nothing other than supportive.

01:22:20.980 She had to give birth to the one baby without him there because he was doing a photo shoot with J-Lo and Beyonce.

01:22:28.960 So she seems like she's a very even though she's a superstar in her own right.

01:22:32.400 She's been very supportive of the guy.

01:22:34.460 So she flies over for his press conference as he joins the Madrid team and listen to what he says in SOT 13.

01:22:40.920 I have always loved football.

01:22:44.520 A mí siempre me ha gustado el fútbol.

01:22:46.520 Of course, I love my family.

01:22:48.840 Por supuesto, quiero a mi familia.

01:22:51.980 But football is everything to me.

01:22:54.400 Pero el fútbol es todo para mí.

01:22:58.920 Gracias.

01:23:00.100 A la Madrid.

01:23:04.460 That said it all to me.

01:23:06.440 That clip, I forgot about that clip.

01:23:08.320 She's sitting next to him.

01:23:09.840 Oh, yeah, I love my family's great.

01:23:12.460 She's cool.

01:23:13.620 Yeah, they're great to have around.

01:23:15.020 You know, they keep me occupied in my downtime.

01:23:16.800 But football, football is everything.

01:23:19.760 And, you know, I get that you kind of have to be that way to achieve a level of greatness.

01:23:24.540 I think you kind of have to have that monomania.

01:23:27.240 We see it in America with Tom Brady, who's the first to admit I wasn't the greatest born athlete.

01:23:32.160 I just worked harder than everybody.

01:23:34.280 But I think there's a similar parallel.

01:23:36.760 That's a good point.

01:23:37.960 Yeah.

01:23:38.240 I hadn't drawn that.

01:23:39.280 But you're absolutely right.

01:23:40.540 He and he lost his marriage.

01:23:42.020 Yeah.

01:23:42.440 Because of it.

01:23:43.420 Yeah.

01:23:43.740 Because of football also being his true number one.

01:23:46.540 Or at least that's how it looks from the outside.

01:23:48.320 So he's in Spain.

01:23:50.260 She's back in England trying to get the kids through their year of school.

01:23:53.420 And then she will eventually join him in Spain.

01:23:55.280 They you know, they are in love.

01:23:56.560 And she was commuting, by the way.

01:23:58.340 Yeah, she was.

01:23:59.080 Obviously, she's in that clip.

01:24:00.160 Yeah.

01:24:00.320 However, this is when his alleged affair with their family assistant there, Abigail Finan, he and as you point out, there was all sorts of proof provided by her.

01:24:11.520 He's always denied it, though didn't explicitly in this film.

01:24:14.340 This is about as much as he said about it in Sot 12.

01:24:18.340 There was some horrible stories that were difficult to deal with.

01:24:31.980 It was the first time that me and Victoria had been put under that kind of pressure in our marriage.

01:24:42.060 Would you say that was the hardest time in your marriage?

01:24:45.220 A hundred percent.

01:24:46.200 It was the hardest period for us because it felt like the world was against us.

01:24:52.580 And here's the thing.

01:24:53.420 We were against each other, if I'm being completely honest.

01:24:56.240 Mm hmm.

01:25:00.380 So but on unrevealed is, as you point out, there wasn't just the allegation of the one affair.

01:25:05.920 There were multiple allegations.

01:25:07.180 And now that assistant has reportedly come out and said, when I was having an affair with him, I walked in and found him sleeping with some Spanish model like there's.

01:25:15.720 Yeah.

01:25:16.260 So that Victoria called her on the phone and said, find David for me.

01:25:19.960 There was a party apparently in the suite and she goes and finds David and he's in bed with another model.

01:25:26.900 And, you know, I think it's also just a particularly cruel betrayal when it's somebody who's in your home taking care of your children who become something of a confidant.

01:25:36.800 You know, it feels very Arnold Schwarzenegger.

01:25:39.800 It feels very Ben Affleck.

01:25:41.840 It's that kind of betrayal that's often left to the women to explain to the children why this trusted, beloved person is now no longer part of the family unit.

01:25:51.580 That is so true.

01:25:53.620 It's sad because I liked Beckham in watching it.

01:25:57.060 Net, net.

01:25:57.400 I liked it.

01:25:57.740 Of course, that was the design.

01:25:59.060 You know, the goal was to get me to like him.

01:26:02.500 I do want to talk to you about one of the piece of it.

01:26:04.760 Oh, first, let me show you this.

01:26:05.800 They end the film.

01:26:06.740 I mean, the whatever documentary series with one of the last scenes is the two of them dancing.

01:26:12.520 Yes.

01:26:13.280 In front of their kids who are now grown.

01:26:15.520 I thought this.

01:26:16.940 I'm going to play it.

01:26:17.920 Just watch.

01:26:18.460 Here's the two of them.

01:26:20.220 Kind of dancing.

01:26:21.020 When I watched the whole scene.

01:26:27.680 Okay.

01:26:28.040 They got their moves.

01:26:29.120 All I felt was uncomfortable.

01:26:31.800 Mm hmm.

01:26:32.400 And like they were putting on this show for us.

01:26:35.240 Like, this did not seem genuine to me.

01:26:37.360 No.

01:26:37.620 Look how disconnected they are.

01:26:38.660 And I don't feel like these two, one of the sadnesses was I don't feel like these two have

01:26:42.900 anything close to the love affair that they had in the beginning.

01:26:46.340 You know, life's thrown a lot at them.

01:26:47.760 Mm hmm.

01:26:48.020 We've talked about some of the challenges.

01:26:49.560 Mm hmm.

01:26:50.100 And you do have to work hard.

01:26:51.520 I mean, they have just as many challenges as any average Joe has in his marriage.

01:26:55.620 And then 10 times more thanks to the fame and the money.

01:26:58.700 And I mean, imagine the number of women who threw themselves at David Beckham.

01:27:02.020 And I'm sure she had tons of opportunities, too.

01:27:04.000 Sure.

01:27:04.560 But is not accused of having acted on them.

01:27:06.360 Um, but one thing I've really wanted to talk to you about, because we've talked about

01:27:09.860 Meghan and Harry so many times before you, you took issue with his complaints about the

01:27:15.340 press.

01:27:16.280 And I'll let you explain why I felt like we're watching it.

01:27:20.380 These two are like the opposite of Meghan and Harry, because they actually were abused.

01:27:26.860 They were abused.

01:27:28.340 And I don't remember him running out to the cameras like poor me and filing 25 lawsuits

01:27:33.380 like that pair did.

01:27:34.480 And it's only years later now that he's about 50 that he is, I think, genuinely talking about

01:27:40.360 trauma.

01:27:40.900 He felt at the hatred that came his way via the media, but really via the fans of England

01:27:47.140 when he blew the World Cup game, a moment that is nicely documented in this piece.

01:27:52.280 So talk about the press coverage and your feelings on that.

01:27:55.400 It's interesting because I do think one of the things about the Beckhams that is admirable

01:28:01.040 is they make no claims to never having wanted not to be famous.

01:28:05.960 They both clearly wanted it and they both clearly enjoyed much of it.

01:28:10.660 And they also came of age as extremely famous people right before the advent of social media.

01:28:19.920 So there was a lot more they could do to control their image and their narrative.

01:28:25.000 And you see it even now to this day.

01:28:26.980 And I think part of the fascination with the Beckhams, too, is that David Beckham does have

01:28:33.160 a lot of goodwill.

01:28:33.980 He is an incredibly compelling character, a true rags to riches story.

01:28:38.880 You know, I feel about him the same way I do sort of feel about Tom Brady, which is I may

01:28:43.500 not really care for him or care much about his sport.

01:28:46.640 But that kind of singular determination and focus and the refusal to be victimized by anything

01:28:54.780 that happens to you in pursuit of that is a vanishing trait, I think, in American culture.

01:29:02.300 It circles back to a little bit of what we were talking about earlier, where, you know,

01:29:05.480 we're talking about the failure of the left or the extreme woke to just condemn what Hamas

01:29:11.060 is and just say the thing.

01:29:12.280 And I kind of feel like this is a trait that may be vanishing with Gen X, that Gen X may

01:29:18.480 be the last cohort that just says the thing, says what it is, and doesn't worry about whether

01:29:24.840 it feels polite or politically correct or it's hurting somebody's feelings.

01:29:30.740 You just sort of say what it is and then deal with it.

01:29:33.620 And I worry that that's a quality that we're losing in the national discourse.

01:29:37.680 And I think it's going to be devastating if we do.

01:29:40.800 So that's the one upside of what's happening on these college campuses right now is they I

01:29:46.560 realize why they're doing it, but they're suddenly discovering their commitment to free

01:29:49.880 speech.

01:29:50.580 Yes.

01:29:51.040 Has a real cost.

01:29:52.000 Yeah.

01:29:52.320 I mean, we do.

01:29:53.040 We'll take the concession.

01:29:54.420 Right.

01:29:54.880 The circumstances under which they're offering it are obvious and absurd.

01:29:59.180 But we'll take it if they're actually going to come over to our side and allow free speech

01:30:03.060 now on college campuses and with professors in class and with students who say things that

01:30:07.720 are not OK in the woke playbook.

01:30:10.240 Great.

01:30:10.560 We're going to be holding you to these promises.

01:30:12.220 Guest speakers.

01:30:13.360 Guest anodyne guest speakers who suddenly find themselves disinvited because words equal

01:30:18.500 violence.

01:30:18.960 Like federal judges out in Stanford or Michael Knowles or Matt Walsh or anybody from the Daily

01:30:24.060 Wire.

01:30:24.540 Right.

01:30:25.420 In any event, I think it's very interesting.

01:30:27.300 You raise some good points about how they invited the press into their world very much.

01:30:30.940 So their wedding, they sold to OK Magazine, you know, so it is tough to invite the press

01:30:36.640 in and then complain.

01:30:38.000 I mean, they've made hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars off of their relationship

01:30:43.080 with the press.

01:30:44.480 And then when they turn, you know, it can be very jarring.

01:30:47.280 But I do think prior to this, they weren't the whiners the Duke and Duchess of duplicity

01:30:52.740 have been.

01:30:53.480 And so I give them a thumbs up on that.

01:30:55.600 I absolutely do, too.

01:30:56.700 I think it's refreshing and I think that I thought, you know, it's so interesting.

01:31:02.440 I thought the thing that they didn't touch on in the documentary, do you remember when

01:31:05.960 Victoria Beckham tried to launch a reality show in America?

01:31:08.820 I didn't remember that until your piece.

01:31:10.920 Yeah.

01:31:11.440 And it was fascinating.

01:31:12.860 And it showed this other side of her where she had this like really dry, droll sense of

01:31:16.860 humor.

01:31:17.380 And, you know, it was sort of like, can they translate Bran Beckham to America, which they've

01:31:22.120 always really been trying to do.

01:31:23.640 But there's something for all of the things that they sort of paper over in the documentary.

01:31:28.560 There is something sort of it's sort of a kind of celebrity that that, again, like we're

01:31:34.480 losing.

01:31:35.520 We've all seen behind the curtain.

01:31:37.420 Yeah.

01:31:37.760 Yeah.

01:31:38.040 A lot.

01:31:38.580 I will say this.

01:31:39.280 She seems warmer than I expected.

01:31:41.260 He seems sadder than I expected.

01:31:44.280 He seems like a sad guy.

01:31:46.140 Yeah.

01:31:46.460 He seems like kind of an angry guy, too.

01:31:48.000 I think all those I stand and pick up angry, although I, I agree to the tension that was

01:31:53.640 between the two of them.

01:31:54.560 But he's really he did get screwed over by a couple of those football managers, kicked

01:31:58.660 him to the curb after years of faithful service unceremoniously.

01:32:02.160 The guy who coached that World Cup team he was on seemed like an absolute prick.

01:32:06.640 And I think he felt he felt the betrayal and becoming the scourge of the nation overnight.

01:32:12.140 Yeah.

01:32:12.620 Deeply.

01:32:13.120 I think it's caused wounds that he's still not over.

01:32:15.260 And so it was kind of interesting to see him wrestle with that on camera.

01:32:19.580 Yeah.

01:32:19.940 You know, you kind of got to see even somebody like Beckham, who hasn't been a whiner about

01:32:25.180 it.

01:32:25.420 Yeah.

01:32:25.920 Gets affected.

01:32:26.700 He's only human.

01:32:27.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:32:28.580 Yeah.

01:32:29.220 And I think that he, you know, the anger, I don't really feel that it's incredibly palpable,

01:32:36.480 but I always feel it when you see somebody with a kind of disorder, like the extreme to

01:32:41.740 which he has OCD, it feels like anger that's self-directed, which maybe goes to your point

01:32:47.540 about feeling suddenly becoming the scourge of a nation, going from the favorite son to

01:32:53.040 the scourge, to the reject, to the one who's fired, to the one who's being called essentially

01:32:58.060 a failure.

01:32:58.800 A punishment.

01:32:59.560 Maybe.

01:33:00.060 More and more punishment.

01:33:01.840 This is so exciting.

01:33:02.960 I mean, I really hope people watch it.

01:33:04.220 So we've helped the Beckhams by doing this long segment.

01:33:06.920 I thought it was that interesting, and I hope you do too.

01:33:09.620 A bit more with Maureen coming up after this.

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01:34:15.540 With Daily Mail's Maureen Callahan is here.

01:34:17.880 And we finally got our martinis, which I have promised to always have on the set.

01:34:22.240 Cheers, Maureen.

01:34:22.920 Cheers, Megan.

01:34:23.860 Doug wasn't here today, so he wasn't here.

01:34:25.600 So Abigail, find me these.

01:34:26.900 Let's see.

01:34:29.700 Solid.

01:34:30.760 Refreshing.

01:34:31.500 She's got talents I don't even...

01:34:32.940 I continue to discover.

01:34:34.100 Well, you have to keep her, clearly.

01:34:35.460 She's been together 15 years.

01:34:36.720 No, she surprises me.

01:34:38.540 All right.

01:34:38.880 So let's finish on the sad news about Matthew Perry.

01:34:43.340 And I know you've been covering the Britney book, too.

01:34:45.200 What are your thoughts on that?

01:34:46.080 You know, I was reading the Britney memoir as soon as it came out last week, and I kept thinking

01:34:51.880 about Matthew Perry because at this time last year, I was reading his memoir and columning

01:34:57.800 on his memoir.

01:34:58.600 And his memoir struck me as so much more candid than the average celebrity memoir.

01:35:06.220 You know, when you read memoir, be it a celebrity or just a quote-unquote civilian, I'm always

01:35:12.020 wondering what did they leave out, you know, for like 75...

01:35:14.460 Like if I can think.

01:35:15.460 Exactly.

01:35:16.280 The worst gets left out.

01:35:18.020 So the amount of trauma and physical debilitation and pain and the sheer consumption, not just

01:35:31.020 of drugs, but alcohol.

01:35:33.180 And, you know, he was a three-pack-a-day smoker, which I forgot about.

01:35:36.740 I didn't know that.

01:35:37.480 You know, just what he put his body through and that he was still even alive.

01:35:42.880 And that book to me felt like, I mean, talk about a legacy play, that book to me felt like

01:35:47.620 I may not live much longer.

01:35:50.460 And this is the thing I want to be remembered for, not being on a sitcom, not being this

01:35:55.460 sort of Gen X icon, but trying to help other people who are as tormented as I am.

01:36:01.880 And it was such an object lesson too.

01:36:03.420 And, you know, the people you think have everything, you know, and he says in the book, like, I would

01:36:08.740 give everything up if I could just not feel the way I feel about myself.

01:36:14.360 And with Brittany, it's a different sense in that book.

01:36:20.540 It's obviously not as insightful.

01:36:22.440 It's obviously not as self-aware, but she still, to me, just as a reader, seems to operate from

01:36:29.160 the addict mindset where nothing is ever her fault.

01:36:32.140 Oh, interesting.

01:36:33.060 Yeah.

01:36:33.320 And the key part to me that was most telling was the glossing over of that SWAT team, just

01:36:41.880 alighting on her mansion in Los Angeles when she had locked herself in the bathroom with

01:36:47.040 one of her little babies.

01:36:48.400 Oh, gosh.

01:36:49.400 And that was, she was carted off.

01:36:51.640 It was like LAPD were there, first responders were there.

01:36:54.620 It was clear that, like, it was a life-threatening situation.

01:36:58.360 And she writes about it in the book is, hey, I just wanted to spend some time with my babies

01:37:04.380 before they went back to their father.

01:37:05.940 Is that a crime?

01:37:07.300 You know?

01:37:08.000 So it's a whitewash.

01:37:09.000 Yeah.

01:37:09.240 Unlike his, which was, you know, reportedly as dark as it could be.

01:37:13.160 I gotta go.

01:37:13.940 But you just told me his book has now overtaken hers.

01:37:16.920 Yeah.

01:37:17.540 On the Times bestseller list.

01:37:19.180 People are very interested in missing him.

01:37:21.360 Yeah.

01:37:21.500 I'm one of them.

01:37:22.380 Yeah.

01:37:22.600 So glad you could be here.

01:37:23.580 Thanks, Maureen.

01:37:24.340 I'm so honored to be here in your studio.

01:37:26.140 Lots of luck till next time.

01:37:27.940 Thanks to all of you for listening.

01:37:30.020 We'll talk more tomorrow.

01:37:33.920 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:37:36.100 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 01, 2023

Status of Trump Trials, and Cornell Student Arrested Over Threats to Jews, with Mike Davis, Dave Aronberg, and Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 660

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