The Megyn Kelly Show - Steyer's Plan to Protect Illegals, and Gallego's Curious Swalwell Spin, Plus Jack Carr on American Chaos and Distrust ｜ Ep. 1296

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.300 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.360 We have a lot of news to get to, plus the mega best-selling author Jack Carr is here with me right here in the Red Studio.

00:00:23.160 Looking forward to that.

00:00:24.340 But before we get started, I have some news for you in the world of Devil May Care Media.

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00:03:03.160 slash MK or by entering MK at checkout. That's Dosedaily.co, D-O-S-E-D-A-I-L-Y.co slash MK for

00:03:12.360 35% off your first month subscription. Is President Trump's mass deportation plan

00:03:19.620 collapsing in slow motion? Has it been abandoned altogether? With the Iran war and the Eric Swell

00:03:27.020 wall situation, we haven't heard much about what's going on with ICE and President Trump's

00:03:30.680 campaign promise to deport as many illegals as possible. Well, President Trump suggested

00:03:35.720 the administration could use, quote, a little bit of a softer touch after Renee Good and Alex

00:03:42.860 Preddy were killed in confrontations with immigration agents in Minneapolis. I mean,

00:03:46.920 what we haven't really realized or talked about, we've been mentioning it on this program for a

00:03:51.440 couple of months now, is the Trump administration lost that whole standoff in Minneapolis.

00:03:57.640 Unfortunately, they've changed their policies as a result.

00:04:02.700 And, you know, when Homan came in and Noam got fired, well, first she got pushed out, then she gets fired.

00:04:09.000 The softer touch is now we've gone from worst first to pretty much worst only, if that.

00:04:16.420 The number of detainees in jail in out in Minneapolis is lower than ever, at least lower than the past couple of months, not than ever.

00:04:30.020 The Biden administration was a different situation.

00:04:31.800 But what we've sort of seen is that the Trump administration realized this turned into a political loser thanks to the nonstop negative coverage, which was totally unfair.

00:04:42.300 And unfortunately, it appears now we've changed policy.

00:04:47.700 What we've seen is a drop in polling support for the administration's immigration enforcement.

00:04:53.760 And since then, we've had the Border Patrol commander at large, Greg Bovino, retire.

00:04:59.760 Noam, again, removed as DHS chief.

00:05:01.940 First, she was moved out of enforcement over Minnesota.

00:05:05.260 And the border czar, Tom Homan, who we love, formerly for Mully, ended the Operation Metro Surge in Minnesota.

00:05:14.520 Remember, he went in.

00:05:16.040 Remember, he first went in there and he was like, I'm going to try to get these sanctuary cities to cooperate by, like, agreeing to call ICE before they let loose criminals in their jails.

00:05:27.740 And we were covering on this show and on AM Update every day, like, how are you going to do that?

00:05:32.100 They're sanctuary cities.

00:05:33.240 It's in their policy.

00:05:34.640 it's like in their law, to not cooperate with ICE? Well, the answer has been they weren't able to do

00:05:40.260 it. Nothing ever changed in Minneapolis. They just quietly moved on to other stories, and the media

00:05:47.780 did too, including Iran and so on. And Minneapolis remains a sanctuary city that appears to have

00:05:54.780 zero intention of cooperating with ICE, which has now all but left the city. So FYI, those crazy 0.51

00:06:03.280 ass protesters succeeded. You got to admit, they succeeded in what they wanted to do there. 0.99

00:06:10.300 And it's really unclear to me exactly what the new immigration regime is. I mean, what does all

00:06:18.320 of this mean for the Trump administration's literally either the number one or number two

00:06:25.660 or three, one of the top three agenda items when they were elected in 2024? Okay, because the

00:06:32.700 numbers are in and ICE detentions are down. They're down big. After a record number of

00:06:39.220 illegal immigrants were in custody in January, the figure dropped 12 percent by the end of March.

00:06:46.920 12 percent. We're going in the wrong direction in terms of the detention of illegals.

00:06:54.020 This is the first time detentions saw a major decline in Trump's second term. We were going

00:07:00.900 in the right direction. He came in with a full gust of wind behind him, understanding that this

00:07:07.440 was a mandate. And then here's how it went. In January, an average of nearly 72,000 illegal

00:07:14.480 immigrants were in ICE detention every day, 72,000. By March, the number had fallen nearly

00:07:21.920 10,000, down to 63,000 and change. The decline, primarily driven by the decline in arrests of

00:07:30.440 illegal immigrants without criminal records. It very much appears like we have moved considerably

00:07:37.280 on from that group. But the story is not just about the numbers. The left is totally emboldened

00:07:43.820 on this issue. And I do mean totally emboldened, making outlandish claims about what they want to

00:07:51.060 do to stop ICE even further. All right. Exhibit A is the California gubernatorial campaign of

00:07:57.620 far left billionaire and ascending California Democrat, Tom Steyer, who would benefit from

00:08:05.260 Swalwell's collapse. This guy's name has been mentioned more than anyone else's. I'm still

00:08:10.360 rooting for Katie Porter. Get the fuck out of the shop. She's our fave. I mean, obviously we want 1.00

00:08:15.820 Steve Hilton, but if it can't be Steve, it should not be Steyer. Okay. So Hilton was here, by the

00:08:22.620 way, yesterday in a really interesting interview. He still leads the open primary polling. If you

00:08:26.960 look at the real clear politics average. But the betting markets have Steyer as the overwhelming

00:08:32.340 favorite after Swalwell's withdrawal, because nobody thinks that California is going to elect

00:08:38.240 a Republican once this thing boils down to two candidates squaring off. So the expectation is

00:08:44.120 that Democrats are going to come together and they are going to support this lunatic Steyer

00:08:48.680 in the general election after they split their votes in this crowded field in the primary. So

00:08:55.580 the primary gets decided June 2nd, and then the general gets decided in November.

00:09:02.040 Yesterday, this guy, Tom Steyer, let me just say, this guy was like, kind of had a reputation as

00:09:06.600 being like somewhat more reasonable. Wrong. Wrong. He put out a statement yesterday promising

00:09:12.400 to abolish ICE. I'm just going to go through the litany of what he promised. Here's what you need

00:09:19.320 to know. None of this is possible. It would all be illegal. He doesn't have the power to do it.

00:09:24.020 this is a bunch of nonsense, sweet nothings. This is like the 800 pound lady saying she's

00:09:30.440 going to look like Cindy Crawford for this summer. It is not possible. I'm sorry. No matter what you

00:09:37.420 do, how hard you try, you are not going to be able to do this. So he apparently has decided

00:09:42.760 to just do what a lot of desperate politicians do and promise the world, none of which will be

00:09:46.940 delivered, to get votes. But we'll go through what he's promising. So, you know, he wants to put

00:09:53.640 ICE agents and their leadership in jail for their crimes, I'm quoting here, because that's how you

00:10:00.320 take on a violent extremist group and win. You're an idiot. Okay, that's never going to happen. 1.00

00:10:08.000 They have federal responsibilities under the law that they are enforcing. And if you try to insert

00:10:14.180 yourself in that process by dubbing federal immigration enforcement behaviors crimes,

00:10:19.900 the courts will not listen to you. There's something called the supremacy clause where

00:10:24.800 the federal law, where it conflicts with the state law, trumps it. Say, okay, so you should know that.

00:10:32.060 You probably do know that. You're just a naked panderer. And he says that he's going to do this 0.99

00:10:37.640 if he becomes the California governor. Same way we took on the mob. Okay, Tom, you might want to

00:10:44.380 crack a law book instead of whatever it is you're smoking out there in the mountains of Utah,

00:10:51.480 one of his favorite getaway spots. He also promised to, quote, bring those detained and

00:10:57.500 kidnapped by ICE back home. Kidnapped by ICE. So not only does he want to stop deportations,

00:11:04.300 he wants to bring back the illegal immigrants we've already been trying to imprison and,

00:11:12.620 I guess, sent home too? Are we going to travel down to Venezuela and get them, Tom? Or do you 0.89

00:11:17.980 just mean the ones we put in jails because A, they're here illegally, and B, they've committed

00:11:25.960 additional crimes? There are a lot of disgusting child molesters who were arrested and put in crime 0.91

00:11:31.680 in California. And I'm going to guess that even his most ardent constituents might have at least

00:11:37.340 a second thought. Maybe not all of them, because we saw the loons in Minneapolis protecting the

00:11:42.560 pedophiles. But a fair amount of Californians are like still reasonable. They vote Democrat

00:11:48.480 because they're super crunchy, you know, like the hippie types. But they don't not pro child

00:11:54.620 molester. They certainly wouldn't want like a child molester in jail to be released because

00:12:01.320 Tom Steyer says it's an illegal who is unfairly imprisoned. And one thing we know is that he will

00:12:08.720 be totally immune from the consequences of mass immigration himself. He doesn't have to worry

00:12:13.660 about any of this. He's a former hedge fund manager. Forbes estimates that his net worth is

00:12:19.420 about $2.4 billion. So this is going to be the problem of regular Californians,

00:12:25.740 not Tom Steyer. He's good. Don't you worry. He'll be fine. Here's a rendering of what his San

00:12:31.680 Francisco cliffside property will look like when it's completed. It's being worked on right now,

00:12:37.100 per the San Francisco Chronicle. It's going to be just a $4 million mansion, so it's like

00:12:42.540 one of his lesser properties. It's going to overlook the bay, though. What a view.

00:12:49.800 The current 5,500-square-foot house is going to be demolished, because obviously

00:12:54.260 we need something new. It's going to be demolished. It's going to make way for a more expansive

00:13:00.340 7,500 square foot structure spanning three levels above the basement. And then here's his stunning

00:13:08.960 Lake Tahoe house per the New York Post. This home is worth $18 million. Very nice. Lake Tahoe is

00:13:17.760 spectacular. Sure, he enjoys much of the gorgeous town. The lake itself is spectacular. It's a cool

00:13:24.760 18 mil. It's going up in value. He reportedly bought it for 15. So already he's made 3 million

00:13:29.580 on it. This is a look inside the home. Floor to ceiling, glass windows overlooking the lake.

00:13:37.320 It's safe to say he won't have many new immigrants as neighbors anytime soon. So 1.00

00:13:42.120 he's in the catbird seat. He can woke virtue signal to all Californians who also are largely

00:13:49.320 on beautiful lots behind their gated properties, the ones who are going to vote for him.

00:13:54.680 And they're all going to feel really good about themselves because they helped the poor embattled illegals, unlike the working class in California, the ones who are the restaurant workers and the construction workers and the salon workers, who are the ones who are going to get killed and whose children will be molested by the ones he's going to let out of jail.

00:14:18.780 So, great job.

00:14:20.960 Great job, Democrats, in trying to pave the way for this guy to be your next governor.

00:14:27.160 He's certainly not going to have to worry about this guy, 26-year-old Ola Olu Katan Adan Abel.

00:14:36.060 He was taken into custody Monday following a string of shootings on the other side of the country in DeKalb County, Georgia,

00:14:44.960 Georgia, that left two women dead and a third person in critical condition. This guy, we

00:14:51.120 inherited him. We're so lucky here in the United States that we not only get to deal with our own

00:14:55.560 homegrown criminals, but we import them from other countries. And not only do we let them stay here 1.00

00:15:00.900 illegally, but many like this guy, we actually allow to naturalize, which is not possible, 0.82

00:15:07.660 and become U.S. citizens. So he was a U.K. national from Great Britain, and now he's one of ours.

00:15:15.540 Now he's an American, only because Joe Biden made him one in 2022.

00:15:23.580 Now, as a result of his naturalization and permission slip to stay here forever, 0.79

00:15:28.500 40-year-old Lauren Bullis is dead. She's one of his victims. She was known as a friendly face.

00:15:37.660 in her neighborhood who walked her dog daily. Listen to what this sick F allegedly did to her. 1.00

00:15:44.740 Watch. A neighbor tells us she ran outside after hearing about six or seven gunshots. 0.98

00:15:49.080 When I came out, he's still standing. He was pulling her clothes, her pants off her. Like

00:15:55.380 I'm standing at the end of the driveway. Just he didn't care at all. So he shot her and then

00:16:04.080 took her clothes off? Fox News' Bill Malugian reporting that DHS confirms he had prior

00:16:10.820 convictions, because of course he did, for sexual battery, battery against a police officer and

00:16:17.000 assault with a deadly weapon. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not recognize we have an 0.97

00:16:22.320 immigrant crime problem in our country, including from people like Abel, who again was allowed to 1.00

00:16:28.340 become a citizen. So shot and killed two people. One, he shot and stabbed, also attacked a homeless 1.00

00:16:36.460 man who now is in critical condition. So Renee Goods and Alex Preddy's deaths were tragic,

00:16:43.400 but President Trump promised to solve our open border problems. And these two people's decision

00:16:50.760 to interfere with immigration enforcement should not have brought an end to that.

00:16:56.580 Because the trend line right now on our enforcement efforts, it's not looking so good. It's really not looking so good. Distractions abroad should not be an excuse to pull back on the clear and present danger here at home.

00:17:12.480 it shouldn't be the worst first it should be yes okay the worst and everyone else

00:17:21.600 because what's what we're seeing now according to the reports is that the numbers are way down

00:17:26.740 on when ICE goes to arrest let's say it's got a list of 10 illegal immigrants who have committed

00:17:32.260 additional crimes so it's going to go into Detroit to pick a city to go arrest those 10 people if

00:17:38.360 they then encounter other illegals in the attempt to arrest those 10, they would arrest

00:17:44.140 them too. Like, oh, you live here too? You didn't commit an additional crime, but you're 0.52

00:17:47.900 here illegally? Get in the back of the van. You're going to detention too. You're going 1.00

00:17:52.560 to be deported. Now those additional arrests are way down. It appears we're not really

00:17:59.900 doing them much, if at all. So it's gone from worst first to worst only, which is not what

00:18:07.140 we agreed to. That is not why we elected President Trump. The polls were overwhelming that the public

00:18:14.380 wanted all of the illegals gone. And it's because a lot of them actually don't have a long rap sheet 1.00

00:18:21.620 before they commit their first big crime. Right. Well, what exactly is the story with the illegal

00:18:30.580 from Venezuela who killed Sheridan Gorman. Sometimes they get here for whatever reason 1.00

00:18:37.780 and they decide to kill. Still a mystery in that case. He killed her in Chicago. She was a freshman

00:18:45.740 in college going out to try to get a peek at the Northern Lights with her friends. And for no

00:18:50.340 apparent reason, he chased her. She ran, terrified, and he shot her in the back of the neck, 0.53

00:18:56.780 killing this sweet, beautiful 18-year-old girl

00:19:00.380 with her whole life in front of her.

00:19:02.740 Either for no reason, possibly as a gang initiation.

00:19:05.700 We had the former governor of Illinois,

00:19:07.100 Rod Blagojevich, on the show saying to him,

00:19:08.860 this looked like a gang introduction or initiation.

00:19:12.620 We don't know.

00:19:13.520 There's some evidence he was making gang signs.

00:19:17.180 The problem is sometimes

00:19:18.580 they don't have the long rap sheet.

00:19:20.620 In many cases, they do.

00:19:22.400 In many cases, like the murder of Kate Steinle

00:19:24.300 out in California,

00:19:25.840 You know, they have a long rap sheet and they've been deported five times.

00:19:30.500 But the point is, you can't go by whether they have a rap sheet. 0.89

00:19:34.940 If they are here illegally, they have to go. 0.93

00:19:38.600 That's why President Trump was elected.

00:19:41.780 And again, like we're doing our foreign adventurism.

00:19:44.500 Okay, could we keep our eye on the real ball here?

00:19:48.880 Like, you know, we're pretending that Iran was about to drop a nuclear bomb on us.

00:19:52.980 It's not true. 0.96

00:19:53.800 But we actually are under a different kind of bomb thanks to these illegals, like the bomb that explodes city after city after city across the country at disparate times and kills random Americans. 1.00

00:20:09.320 And why is it so often women? 0.99

00:20:13.000 Again, I've covered this before. 0.99

00:20:14.480 We've done retrospectives on the victims.

00:20:18.860 And believe me, there are millions of men who are endangered by these illegals, too.

00:20:23.800 And far too many American males who get killed by them, get shot, the homeless guy who I just mentioned, get run over by DWI illegals and so on.

00:20:34.800 But it seems like these days every report is of a young woman between the ages of 18 and 25 doing nothing, living her life like Sheridan Gorman, going for a jog like Lakin Riley or Rachel Morin, mother of five. 0.62

00:20:52.500 and they get killed for no reason other than the perversions or psychosis of these illegals. 0.89

00:21:00.760 So they need to go. That actually is a clear and present danger to Americans who today are 0.99

00:21:08.400 going to go to the grocery store, buy food for their children, drop their kids off at school,

00:21:13.680 pick them up later, make a nice dinner. And tomorrow, some will die at the hands of people

00:21:20.700 who have no business being here.

00:21:24.100 Where's the laser-like focus on that?

00:21:28.260 Truly.

00:21:30.180 I mean, for all of her faults,

00:21:32.080 Kristi Noem seemed to be intolerant 0.99

00:21:35.840 toward the presence of any illegals here, 1.00

00:21:39.040 which was a good thing. 1.00

00:21:40.880 I believe she thought she was enacting 0.85

00:21:42.800 President Trump's agenda.

00:21:45.760 Could we get back to that?

00:21:47.900 Could we not bend the knee 1.00

00:21:50.080 to the outraged, blue-haired women in Minneapolis 1.00

00:21:55.300 and their weird TikToks?

00:21:58.500 Because the core votership that put President Trump in office

00:22:04.220 was made a promise on this and abandoning it

00:22:07.980 is not going to serve anyone well, anyone,

00:22:11.220 even the leftists who claim they want it.

00:22:14.240 And now, we talked earlier this week about this bill

00:22:19.440 that's being pushed by a Republican Congresswoman along with a Democrat.

00:22:23.500 But I mean, the Republicans, there are some 20 Republicans in the House

00:22:26.020 who are in favor of this thing, which is amnesty. 0.75

00:22:30.920 It's amnesty for that segment of illegals who have been here for more than five years

00:22:37.220 that had to predate the Biden administration.

00:22:39.040 So they're trying to exclude the ones who came in under Joe Biden.

00:22:42.700 OK, great.

00:22:43.420 But why are we doing it?

00:22:44.500 We're not giving amnesty.

00:22:45.480 What do you mean?

00:22:45.820 Like, so if you got here during the Trump administration or during the Obama administration and you've managed to last five years, you can stay.

00:22:54.120 And they're like, you've got to pay a fine.

00:22:55.860 You've got to pay back taxes.

00:22:57.060 OK.

00:22:58.000 And in exchange, we swear we're going to crack down on the border.

00:23:00.920 We're going to make sure, you know, we're going to do E-Verify, which I love.

00:23:04.140 We should do E-Verify.

00:23:05.240 But somehow it never seems to come along, never actually seems to get implemented.

00:23:09.320 They put all these nice little sticks in for the Republicans. 0.63

00:23:13.060 Like, here are the sticks we're going to use to, like, keep the illegals out, the scary things. 0.86

00:23:17.880 And then the sticks get removed and only the carrot remains, which is amnesty, the lure to get the illegals to come over.

00:23:27.580 Every time you give amnesty, more illegals come because they know we're weak.

00:23:32.140 And with enough pressure every 10 years, somebody's going to bring it up and actually has a shot.

00:23:37.140 So now there is an actual bill for amnesty.

00:23:40.280 They deny that it should be called that, but it is.

00:23:43.060 It's got some border tightening and some provisions like E-Verify, but it's got a whole lot of amnesty, too, for the so-called dreamers, kids who are brought here by their parents under the age of five and have lived their whole life here, and for others who've been here for at least five years.

00:24:01.880 Okay, so that's working its way through the House, sponsored by a Republican, Maria Salazar, and Stephen Miller.

00:24:12.880 I mean, is there a greater spokesman or policy hawk on illegal immigration than Stephen Miller?

00:24:20.920 There is not.

00:24:21.940 Like, he's solid.

00:24:24.160 Stephen Miller was interviewed the other night on Fox.

00:24:28.740 I think it was with Brian Kilmeade.

00:24:30.820 Do we have this thought?

00:24:32.280 And he was asked about this bill, this amnesty bill.

00:24:37.160 Now, having listened to Stephen Miller for many, many years, what I would have expected Stephen Miller to say when even the word amnesty came up was something along the lines of hell no.

00:24:47.700 Not only no, but hell no.

00:24:49.240 There will be no amnesty under President Trump.

00:24:52.540 Absolutely not a single illegal will be made legal.

00:24:56.900 These people are going to be deported.

00:24:58.760 Period.

00:24:59.360 End of report.

00:25:00.040 unfortunately that's not what we heard watch here's some of the facts with the dignity act

00:25:06.740 where do you stand with it steven well you you know that this administration imposes amnesty

00:25:14.400 president trump has always been clear in his opposition to amnesty and i of course you know

00:25:19.980 my own my own views but i want to i want to reframe this whole conversation brian if i could

00:25:26.140 to something that President Trump has been very focused on for a long time.

00:25:30.960 And that's about having the kind of immigration to this country that makes us stronger, not weaker.

00:25:39.120 I think this conversation gets siloed too often when we have to look at the whole picture.

00:25:44.680 And so this old Washington conversation about amnesty is missing the whole point.

00:25:49.140 The real conversation is how do we have an immigration policy that makes America stronger and more unified, not weaker and more divided?

00:25:56.140 uh, that it, it sounded like someone else invaded Stephen Miller's body and spoke for him there.

00:26:03.760 I'm sorry, but to me, that sounded like somebody getting ready to lay the table for something

00:26:08.700 other than deportations, something possibly approaching amnesty like that Salazar bill.

00:26:17.480 Um, that was not a no. And I don't know why there's zero chance that Stephen Miller has

00:26:23.440 softened on this issue. If he's, if the message is softening, it's because his boss is taking a

00:26:28.580 different position. And it was just a couple of months ago that president Trump suggested he might

00:26:34.360 be open to something like this. He says no amnesty. And then he softens it with another

00:26:40.280 statement like, well, but we have to see people who have been here for a long time. Like what

00:26:43.960 This can't happen. It cannot happen. I mean, I cannot imagine what will happen in 26, never mind, 28, if Trump betrays the base on Epstein, on Middle East war, and then grants amnesty, okay, for anyone.

00:27:08.020 Like that. There's just no way if he does that. He's intentionally trying to give the elections to Democrats. If he does that truly, like then he's trying to get Democrats elected. And there's there's just no way he would intentionally do that.

00:27:22.060 but i don't know why they're softening in the message i don't know why we have a republican

00:27:28.500 co-sponsor who trump endorsed after she became a co-sponsor of this so-called dignity or dignidad

00:27:34.900 act so he endorsed her after that and something appears to be in the mix which is not going to

00:27:44.040 go over well with the gop base with the america firsters who put him in office this so-called

00:27:50.180 Dignity Act, offers a seven-year temporary legal status for undocumented immigrants who have been

00:27:57.860 here five years or more since before 2021. They must pass a criminal background check. They must 0.53

00:28:03.680 pay $7,000 in restitution over seven years, no federal benefits or entitlements, no path to

00:28:09.120 citizenship for them, though for the dreamers, different story. Once completed, can continue to

00:28:14.200 stay and work in the United States. Um, this is the last thing we need in this country. 0.84

00:28:23.580 This guy, Abel, who I mentioned to you out of Savannah, Georgia. I mean, I'm just looking this,

00:28:28.780 um, Matt Vance wall online, got a, he got access to his case files for the previous sexual battery

00:28:35.460 in Savannah that, that caused him to be banished from the entire city.

00:28:40.200 And here are his headlines.

00:28:41.740 He assaulted, because he went to jail, and then he was released.

00:28:46.320 And that's why he was back out on the streets to kill those two women and attack a homeless man, placing him in critical condition.

00:28:54.840 He had assaulted four different women in the span of a few hours, four victims, four counts of sexual battery, in April 2025.

00:29:02.440 When police tried to arrest him, again, quoting here from Matt Van Swal, he resisted.

00:29:07.880 They added an obstruction charge on top of everything else.

00:29:11.100 That obstruction charge vanished magically before trial.

00:29:14.280 Prosecutors dropped it entirely, no explanation given.

00:29:17.820 His attorney got all four sexual battery counts handled under George's First Offender Act.

00:29:23.460 Aren't you a second offender when you move on to the second woman?

00:29:26.840 Meaning if he completed probation, the whole thing would essentially disappear from his record.

00:29:32.620 The judge sentenced him to 48 months and then suspended most of it.

00:29:36.940 He actually served 120 days in prison total, four months in prison total.

00:29:45.220 I guess each woman got one month.

00:29:48.220 That's how much her sexual battery and assault was worth, one month, 30 days per victim.

00:29:56.380 How much did he pay in fines?

00:29:58.080 Zero.

00:29:58.880 How much did he pay in restitution to any of the four women?

00:30:02.740 Zero.

00:30:03.760 The court did order a psychological evaluation and required that he follow whatever treatment

00:30:09.400 came from it, mandating mental health counseling, and then they banned him from the entire city

00:30:15.280 of Savannah for four years.

00:30:17.640 They explicitly prohibited him from possessing any firearm.

00:30:21.660 That always works so well with the lawbreakers.

00:30:24.320 They always honor those mandates.

00:30:27.360 He signed the probation agreement on June 7th, 2025.

00:30:31.340 We couldn't even make it one year before he got a gun, murdered two women, and attacked a homeless man again.

00:30:43.100 Okay, so this is where we stand today.

00:30:48.560 This guy, again, was legal.

00:30:50.500 We made this guy a citizen, but he wasn't prior to that.

00:30:54.960 He's from the UK.

00:30:55.700 He was not a citizen. 1.00

00:30:56.420 We made him one. And then he took a gun and murdered two women, shot a homeless man. 0.97

00:31:02.940 One of the women he shot, he also stabbed and was caught pulling her pants down after he shot her. 1.00

00:31:08.120 So what the fuck did we let into our country? 1.00

00:31:11.020 And how many more are there, like April, who are getting ready to murder, rape and hurt more young American mothers? 1.00

00:31:21.260 honestly what the f this one one of the women worked for dhs it's just awful this is her 1.00

00:31:31.700 she looks happy she looks joyful she looks fun she's got some sort of a costume on here holding 0.99

00:31:38.700 up an award she looks like she's having a great time as she should be today and tomorrow and the

00:31:43.600 next day instead she's dead and bleeding in a morgue thanks to this guy who we decided to make

00:31:50.080 one of us, with the blessing of American citizenship, as a Republican congresswoman

00:31:54.560 pushes for many, many more to get permanent legal status and for others to get actual

00:31:59.640 citizenship. I mean, it's just, it's a disgrace. President Trump cannot allow it. There's just,

00:32:06.600 there'll be nothing left. There'll be nothing left of the America First coalition if the promise

00:32:14.700 to deport the illegals is abandoned in favor of amnesty of any kind, of any kind. 0.57

00:32:25.840 All right, we're going to take a quick break and we will be right back. There's much, much more.

00:32:30.600 Don't go away. Okay. Quick break. And then we'll be back. And in a bit,

00:32:36.580 just a bit after that, Jack Carr will be here live. Here's a question for you. How many brokers

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00:34:26.400 And speaking of criminals who should have been behind bars instead of out hurting American

00:34:34.080 families, we've got to go to what happened at Walmart in Nebraska yesterday. Have you seen

00:34:40.560 these pictures? A warning, this is disturbing. A mom was pushing her little toddler boy in the cart

00:34:48.940 at Walmart, as we've all done 10,000 times. This psycho other woman comes over to her, 1.00

00:34:56.920 reportedly, according to the cops, takes a knife that she had stolen from Walmart, a large butcher knife, the kind you have in your knife block that, you know, it's like the biggest one, and threatens the mom to basically get out of the way and to give the psycho the grocery cart with the child in it.

00:35:19.760 the suspect is named Nomi Guzman 31 the little boy in the front of this cart just for the

00:35:27.220 listening audience we're showing this psycho perpetrator holding one of those huge knives

00:35:32.160 like the psycho knife over this little boy he's got long blonde hair so he looks like a girl from

00:35:37.880 the back this is a boy and he's got a baseball hat on he's turning around I think he's looking

00:35:42.200 at his mother because when the psycho forced the mother out of the store and and the psycho had

00:35:47.900 the little boy, Siler, in front of her, like the mom was reportedly in front of the cart.

00:35:53.220 So the psycho was forcing them both out of the store for some reason. We have no idea.

00:35:57.080 This is an actual photo for the people who are watching this on YouTube. You are seeing,

00:36:00.880 I assume it's from the cop's body cam. You can see the cop's two hands holding the gun,

00:36:06.660 pointing at Psycho, this Guzman, who's got the knife raised as though she's going to stab this

00:36:12.580 little boy, and he's okay, but she did cut him. It obviously must have been right before this

00:36:19.860 because he's got a long, looks about like a six-inch, yeah, here's his face, cut on the

00:36:26.040 left cheekbone going up over the top of his ear that now looks stitched up. Thank God he is

00:36:33.900 physically all right. This could have been so much worse. And thank God that the Omaha police

00:36:40.340 responded quickly. So here's what the Daily Mail says happened. Guzman, the perp, approached Sarah,

00:36:47.580 the mom, and Siler, her son, who was in the shopping cart with a large kitchen knife,

00:36:53.100 ordered the mother to leave the store. She took possession of the child, essentially kidnapping

00:36:57.140 him, and forced Sarah to walk in front of the cart while she took control of it. She held the weapon

00:37:01.460 to Siler's body as she issued commands to Sarah, telling her to stop and then keep walking as they

00:37:06.320 headed to the parking lot. No doubt half of Walmart was calling the cops by this point.

00:37:11.280 Police intercepted Guzman shortly after she, the little boy, and his mother exited the store.

00:37:16.380 Photos show how she held the knife to Siler's head as she repeatedly made threats with the weapon.

00:37:21.260 Officers gave multiple verbal commands for her to drop the knife, but she refused to do so and

00:37:25.260 cut the boy in the face, say police. That's when two officers fired their service weapons at her,

00:37:29.880 killing her. Good. Sarah and a bystander immediately removed Siler from the cart and

00:37:35.420 provided aid. He was taken to a nearby hospital with lacerations on the face and hand, required

00:37:39.840 surgery and stitches. By the way, a GoFundMe campaign was started to help the family with

00:37:44.840 medical bills, therapy, and daily expenses. As the toddler recovers, his dad was at a job interview

00:37:50.920 when the attack unfolded. This is not a well-off family. Unlike Tom Steyer, they don't have the

00:37:58.640 $18 million mansion in Tahoe, in addition to the cliffside home in LA. He was looking for a job

00:38:07.480 when his wife and son were attacked at a Walmart in Omaha, which is supposed to be safe

00:38:14.820 by this criminal, not an illegal. Sarah Hillman, the mom, urged her, she's, I guess,

00:38:24.600 some sort of an influencer online, urged her followers to please pray for my baby.

00:38:28.700 Again, a GoFundMe campaign was started to help them.

00:38:31.480 After the shooting, police attempted life-saving measures on Guzman, but she was pronounced dead.

00:38:37.000 Okay, her history.

00:38:39.060 She was arrested in 2024 after her father's home was set on fire.

00:38:42.140 Gee, good call on that arrest.

00:38:46.700 According to Omaha police, she doused her father, Octavio Guzman, in a flammable liquid and cut him with a knife.

00:38:53.220 That was 2024.

00:38:54.060 It's 2026. What is she doing out? If you or I doused a person in lighter fluid and then lit the home on fire and then cut that person with a knife, I think we'd still be in prison right now. Why is she out? Why is Naomi Guzman out on the street to commit this crime in the first place?

00:39:17.160 Then she left the location after this crime back in 24 and broke into a church rectory in South Omaha, more via KETV. 1.00

00:39:25.840 She left and broke into San Francis Cabrini Church, St. Francis Cabrini Church. 0.68

00:39:32.700 Investigators say she had a knife and was destroying property in the rectory.

00:39:36.320 A priest inside barricaded himself in a second floor room, called 911.

00:39:39.760 Omaha cops said she broke through the door with a knife, sensing a pattern.

00:39:43.920 Just as crews were getting the priest out through the window.

00:39:46.280 This woman is clearly, deeply, deeply, dangerously unwell and a threat to society. 0.99

00:39:52.420 She should not have been out and free.

00:39:54.800 She was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

00:39:59.920 That's why she was out.

00:40:01.680 And guess what, though?

00:40:02.480 Don't worry.

00:40:03.340 She was assigned a treatment plan.

00:40:05.780 Her annual review was scheduled for June 12th.

00:40:08.840 She had a treatment plan, guys.

00:40:10.180 tell it to little Siler, who's now going to have emotional wounds that last him well after the

00:40:17.880 healing of that physical cut on his head. We don't imprison people anymore, and we really don't

00:40:24.900 institutionalize them. We have psychos roaming the streets, and we don't imprison them. I mean,

00:40:33.300 even Sheridan Gorman's accused killer, this guy in Chicago, his defense lawyers are standing up 0.54

00:40:39.100 saying, oh, he had a mental deficiency. He got, I think, shot in the head. He had a massive head

00:40:45.040 wound. He's got like a crater in his forehead. And that that left him unable to tell right from

00:40:49.920 wrong. Oh, he he was able to cross the border illegally. He was able to claim he needed asylum

00:40:55.520 that that requires two brain cells to rub together. He was able to know that he should run after he

00:41:00.240 committed the crime, go back to his apartment and hide. Sounds like he actually kind of had

00:41:05.040 malice aforethought and knew exactly what he was doing. But now, and what about Irina's killer

00:41:10.820 down in Charlotte, North Carolina? That guy too. He was just found incompetent to stand trial,

00:41:17.200 at least for now. It has to go to another decision. So he was fine. He had multiple arrests,

00:41:22.420 a long, long rap sheet, but he was still roaming the streets because judge after judge put him

00:41:27.120 back on the streets to hurt us. So between the fucking illegals and the nutcases we refuse to 1.00

00:41:32.000 institutionalize. We are lucky to live nine to five out on the streets every day, my friends. 1.00

00:41:39.180 More than half the point of electing Trump was to crack down on crime in these cities and to get 1.00

00:41:44.540 rid of these illegals. Obviously, we can't do it all. Obviously, not every single criminal will be 1.00

00:41:49.860 locked up and not every illegal will be deported. But to in any way take our foot off the gas pedal

00:41:56.400 is to endanger more Americans.

00:42:00.120 And these cities that don't seem to care about

00:42:03.220 keeping criminals locked up

00:42:04.560 or to institutionalize the mentally insane

00:42:08.060 are complicit.

00:42:11.020 They're complicit.

00:42:12.920 So we'll see now what happens.

00:42:16.980 I mean, obviously the woman who abducted the child

00:42:18.920 at Walmart is dead, and that's a blessing.

00:42:21.200 But in these other cases that we outlined,

00:42:24.680 like in Georgia.

00:42:26.400 Okay. I want to move on to a couple of other things. Let's go to Ruben Gallego. So he's the

00:42:33.660 senator who beat Carrie Lake in Arizona, unfortunately. He's a Democrat, and he was

00:42:39.220 also the best friend of Eric Swalwell. I guess now they're breaking up. Now that Swalwell's in

00:42:45.440 trouble and has been accused by five women of various acts ranging from sending unsolicited 0.99

00:42:50.060 dick pics to alleged rape. I feel the need to add the first woman who accused of him that 0.99

00:42:57.920 said he molested her when she was blacked out one night, and then she called him again

00:43:02.340 five or six years later to have drinks with her, and the alleged rape happened that second

00:43:07.720 time together. Now a woman came forward with Gloria Allred's daughter, Lisa Bloom, yesterday,

00:43:14.680 Gloria and her daughter, both lawyers, and that woman said she believes he slipped her a date 0.96

00:43:18.740 rape drug and that he raped her and choked her out. He denies all these accusations. But Ruben

00:43:25.460 Gallego's name has come up repeatedly because they're best friends. He helped run Swalwell's

00:43:29.160 very brief presidential run in 2019. And many people have questioned, what did he know and

00:43:36.500 when did he know it? And he came out to speak to some of that yesterday. Here's some of it in

00:43:41.460 sat 14. We all heard rumors in Washington, D.C. about Eric Swalwell for many years. And my family,

00:43:49.280 again, was with him all the time, with his wife, with his kids. And we saw a different side of Eric

00:43:56.100 that I never saw. And and when I asked him about some of these rumors that were starting on the

00:44:05.260 internet, you know, a few weeks back, he also denied it and said the same thing, like the same

00:44:12.300 thing they tried to do to you is in 2024 is what they're trying to do. In the beginning, you said

00:44:17.060 when you first heard these rumors a few weeks ago, that's when you called him. Then you said

00:44:20.020 you've heard these rumors for years. So which one is it, Senator? So I heard rumors of him being

00:44:24.300 flirty. And that wasn't an issue enough for you to not trust him to watch your kids or be close

00:44:28.380 with him? Because, you know, you hear this and then when you're close to somebody and you know,

00:44:32.940 you know his wife you see this you see that relationship you know that like it maybe just

00:44:38.240 isn't true i asked him about it prior to the few weeks i asked him about it a few weeks ago when

00:44:43.620 it when it started coming up online oh my god i mean like the deception meter is going off the

00:44:49.420 charts a lot of signs of deception there hands above the midline arms crossed offensively

00:44:56.780 not answering the specific question, spiraling, deflecting, adding in unnecessary details.

00:45:04.040 We're going to get this. We're going to run this by Phil Houston and have an analysis for you. But

00:45:07.400 I mean, you don't you don't need Phil Houston, the human lie detector of the CIA, 30 years

00:45:12.120 to see this guy's obviously misleading us. You can see he's in a panic. He seems extremely nervous.

00:45:17.480 What do you have to be nervous about? Really? If you ask me, I've actually known people who

00:45:24.180 have been accused of serious felonies. I have. If you asked me if I had anything to do with him,

00:45:28.760 I'd say no. If you said, did you know anything about it? I'd say no. Nope. Didn't. Had dinner.

00:45:36.560 Saw a nicer side. Wasn't really involved in any of that. That's it. I wouldn't get nervous. Spiral.

00:45:43.180 Arms crossed. Hands above the midline. Not making eye contact. Unnecessary detail. What do you have

00:45:49.400 to hide, Ruben. Citizens of Arizona, you did the wrong thing. You put the wrong man in office. You

00:45:55.720 should have gone with Carrie Lake. She's bold. She's unafraid. Maybe some of you found that a 1.00

00:46:02.200 little off-putting in a woman, but that's exactly what you needed, somebody bold and unafraid in

00:46:07.900 that post, and not somebody who's running around with his shirt off with Eric Swalwell in Abu Dhabi. 1.00

00:46:15.420 all right look at these two morons on their camels god only knows what happened after this 0.96

00:46:22.920 i don't think ruben gallego's troubles are over they're just starting here he is more of him in 0.99

00:46:28.020 stop 15 i let this man into my family i trusted this man and through some of the hardest things

00:46:37.740 i ever had to deal with i trusted him with my family and it hurts and it hurts the fact that

00:46:42.640 He hurt a lot of people and it pisses me off that now we all have to deal with all of his

00:46:49.200 BS, his family, the poor victims that are still going to have to seek justice.

00:46:55.320 And of course, this is just, this is a horrible situation.

00:47:00.820 Okay.

00:47:01.560 I'm just going to go ahead right now and say it's going to come out that Ruben Gallego

00:47:04.600 knew everything.

00:47:05.840 You can just tell.

00:47:06.820 It's just my opinion.

00:47:08.160 You can just tell.

00:47:09.060 They were best friends. 0.99

00:47:10.080 Swalwell never said a word to him about the many dick pics he was sending young interns. 0.97

00:47:14.020 You're telling me Swalwell never pulled out his phone and showed Ruben Gallego the naked shots he managed to get back from the young women who wanted to work for him or get to know him? 0.98

00:47:26.000 Never did that? 1.00

00:47:27.560 Bullshit. 1.00

00:47:28.060 I call bullshit. 1.00

00:47:29.840 Does that guy look like he's telling you the truth? 1.00

00:47:33.100 He's in a shit ton of trouble, which is why his voice cracked.

00:47:36.980 again in my opinion because he's scared for himself uh here's a little more in sat 13

00:47:44.700 swallow have called you his best friend you have never asked him about any of the rumors

00:47:50.280 that have been swirling around democratic politics of his inappropriate behavior i did uh look

00:47:56.640 we knew each other differently for what else my family and his family were as close as it gets

00:48:04.980 our kids were in baseball camp together you know we we had dinner together as a family it it was

00:48:10.820 entirely different i think what people understand but when there was rumors going around a couple

00:48:15.020 weeks ago not of the the folks in whatever in summer school chronicle um i did ask him and he

00:48:21.680 lied to me he knew that i just came off a very very hard campaign for two years where he lied

00:48:26.960 about me and my family for two years he manipulated me to have the same sentiment that i was having

00:48:32.560 back in the day and use as an opportunity to move me to to defend him you you a couple days

00:48:38.540 how did you not know about the allegations so considering you chaired his presidential campaign

00:48:43.520 wouldn't some of this have come up some of those allegations predated when he ran for office

00:48:48.260 again this man led a double life he lied to us look how nervous he is these are very simple

00:48:56.600 questions and you know i i brought it up just a few weeks ago when the allegations first started

00:49:01.280 a disservice? No, I don't believe you. And by the way, a truth teller doesn't sound like that.

00:49:07.260 You know, a truth teller runs toward the truth. That's what we know from Phil.

00:49:10.300 They run toward the truth. They don't spiral into, oh, my family knew him differently. Our

00:49:15.560 kids play baseball together. Our family spent all the time together, the dinners. No, a truth

00:49:20.000 teller says, the first I ever heard of this was when that one woman posted the thing on the

00:49:25.760 internet saying there are a bunch of other women out there who are going to come forward against

00:49:30.040 Swalwell saying he molested them or he mistreated them or he harassed them. And I went to him and

00:49:35.760 the truth teller then recounts what happened in the conversation. I said to him, is there any

00:49:41.240 truth to any of this? And he said, absolutely not. Ruben, you know, I love my wife. This woman has an

00:49:47.820 ax to grind because I fight. You would remember the conversation. You would recite it and repeat 0.99

00:49:52.140 it fearlessly and with detail. You wouldn't be inserting our kids play baseball together.

00:49:58.860 So in my opinion, Ruben Gallego has something to hide, too.

00:50:04.040 And if it's bad, there's a real question about what's going to happen with him and his Senate seat.

00:50:11.000 Because if he knew, if there's pictures of him, if there's anything along the lines of what we've seen with Swalwell,

00:50:18.060 that's another political position that's very much in jeopardy.

00:50:23.020 It's really unbelievable.

00:50:24.660 This story is not done, not done by a long shot.

00:50:28.820 And so there's a question of who knew and when and who was complicit.

00:50:33.300 Who might have been in the pictures?

00:50:35.260 Who participated in Swalwell's depravity?

00:50:39.580 Yet to be answered.

00:50:41.120 Put a pin in that one.

00:50:42.620 Okay, up next, my pal Jack Carr is here.

00:50:46.440 He's a very, very famous author.

00:50:49.080 He's a Navy SEAL sniper.

00:50:51.820 We had dinner last night.

00:50:53.480 He was telling my kids about BUDS training.

00:50:55.780 You could hear a pin drop in the room.

00:50:57.180 Great storyteller. Great guy. We'll talk to him next. Don't go away.

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00:52:46.520 Credit cards can keep your payments secure

00:52:48.480 and provide rewards that families use

00:52:50.680 to help make everyday purchases more affordable.

00:52:53.280 The Electronic Payments Coalition

00:52:54.600 says the Durbin Marshall mandates

00:52:56.580 would let corporate megastores cut corners

00:52:58.960 on credit card processing,

00:53:00.740 routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks

00:53:03.380 with weaker security and fewer protections.

00:53:06.220 Find out more at guardyourcard.com

00:53:08.900 and consider telling Congress to guard your card.

00:53:13.800 Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news.

00:53:18.340 I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies.

00:53:27.940 Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.

00:53:36.900 It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

00:53:48.360 He is a former Navy SEAL sniper who spent 20 years in naval special warfare,

00:53:53.760 leading elite teams on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:53:57.440 After serving as a team leader, platoon commander, and task unit commander,

00:54:01.560 he transitioned from the battlefield to books and how,

00:54:05.100 becoming a New York Times bestselling author over and over and over again.

00:54:10.360 His debut novel, The Terminal List, became a massive hit

00:54:14.460 and was adapted into the wildly successful Amazon Prime video series

00:54:19.020 starring actor Chris Pratt.

00:54:21.300 Here's part of the trailer if you haven't seen it.

00:54:23.940 Want to tell me what happened?

00:54:25.620 Somebody fed us bad intel.

00:54:27.360 This is set up.

00:54:29.720 If I'm right, we need to act on this.

00:54:32.520 I need names.

00:54:33.640 There's connection to you and your men.

00:54:35.100 I'll find it

00:54:36.840 Answers

00:54:39.180 Or blood

00:54:40.480 Blood

00:54:43.520 Where's James Reese?

00:54:47.120 Is it true your fugitive is a Navy SEAL?

00:54:49.280 There's a bunch of people tracking you right now

00:54:50.840 So just lay low

00:54:51.880 I have 12 men flying home in caskets right now

00:54:55.340 This is personal

00:54:57.980 Oh, you wanted in on the fray

00:55:04.280 Now, you're in the battlefield.

00:55:08.520 So good.

00:55:09.760 Nice.

00:55:10.440 Now, author Jack Carr is opening a new chapter with an all-new series.

00:55:14.760 His latest book, The Fourth Option, set to hit shelves next month.

00:55:19.240 Jack Carr joins me now on set.

00:55:21.080 How are you?

00:55:21.680 I am great.

00:55:22.340 Thank you so much for having me.

00:55:23.460 Oh, my God, the pleasure's all ours.

00:55:24.660 In that video right there.

00:55:25.480 So I'm in that car that Chris Pratt backs into in the 1988 FJ-62 Land Cruiser.

00:55:30.760 That's me.

00:55:31.380 Well, there was a stuntman in it.

00:55:32.520 Then he got out, and I got back in.

00:55:33.620 they wouldn't let me do the crash. I have that shootout with Chris Pratt where he kills me in

00:55:37.400 episode three. That's your signature thing. That is. Your cameos. Yep, exactly. Get killed in every

00:55:42.180 season. But I had to tell him, hey, if this went down in real life, things would turn out a little

00:55:46.060 differently. I had to have that. I think he knows that. He knows that. It's all good. It's been like

00:55:50.540 a rocket ship for you. You got out of the SEALs, you got out of the service and decided to put some

00:55:55.440 of those stories to good use. Your imagination, son of a librarian, loved books and sort of put

00:56:00.520 your two greatest loves together, right?

00:56:02.280 The military and your love of books.

00:56:03.940 But it really happened for you

00:56:05.460 and your talent like shot you to superstardom

00:56:08.240 in like a year.

00:56:09.720 So take me back to that time when you're like,

00:56:11.880 maybe I'll write a book

00:56:13.100 and then like a year or two later,

00:56:15.880 Chris Pratt, miniseries, bestselling books,

00:56:18.440 like what a transition.

00:56:20.200 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:56:20.960 But I knew what I wanted to do from such an early age

00:56:23.060 that I never got dissuaded along the way

00:56:25.480 or if I did or someone tried to

00:56:26.920 and someone tried to tell me the odds

00:56:28.140 of becoming an ABC

00:56:28.840 CEO of the Oz of becoming a number one New York Times bestselling author. I just used it as fuel.

00:56:32.980 Somebody's become a SEAL before. Someone's made it through this training and someone's on that

00:56:36.160 New York Times list at number one. I can do it too. Somebody else has done it. And that reading

00:56:40.860 that I did really, I credit reading with not just what I'm doing now and providing that foundation,

00:56:44.980 but also the foundation that allowed me to go into the SEAL teams because I've been studying

00:56:48.700 warfare, terrorism, insurgencies, counterinsurgencies from a very early age. So I knew I wanted to serve

00:56:53.940 at age seven. I knew I wanted to be an author, certainly by age 11. And there was a book called

00:56:58.400 our novella, The Most Dangerous Game by Richard Connell, which was written in the early 1920s.

00:57:02.860 And I told myself one day I'd write a thriller that paid tribute to that short story. And I told

00:57:06.880 myself that in sixth grade. And that was my third novel, Savage Son. So the reading really informed

00:57:11.940 all the rest of it. And from the leadership perspective, I'm getting lessons from other

00:57:15.980 people throughout history. And then I'm going through Buds and I'm thinking, you know what,

00:57:19.940 people, I'm not storming the beaches in Normandy or Iwo Jima right now. I can do a few more push

00:57:24.400 in the sand in Coronado, California. And all those people from the inception of this country up until

00:57:28.980 today sacrificed so much for me to be able to pursue my dream. And it happens to be becoming

00:57:34.220 a Navy SEAL, testing myself here in Buds. And then very naturally, all those books that I'd

00:57:38.780 been reading really for the magic in the pages of the thrillers, because a lot of those thrillers

00:57:42.560 that I read growing up had protagonists with backgrounds I wanted in real life one day.

00:57:46.200 And so all of those books really became, and their authors became my professors in the art

00:57:50.780 of storytelling. I didn't think of it that way at the time, but I'm reading those things at a time

00:57:54.800 when I don't have a job, I don't have a family, I don't have a mortgage, any of those things. I'm

00:57:58.920 just a kid in sixth, seventh, eighth grade, ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th, continued throughout my whole

00:58:03.000 life. But I'm reading and I'm learning at the same time, but I didn't look at it that way.

00:58:08.180 But not having all those distractions, not having the job, whatever you do between age eight and

00:58:11.840 18 or 10 and 20, I think it just imprints on you in a different way. So if I'd been 40 years old,

00:58:16.680 close to getting out of the military and then decided, hey, you know what, I'm gonna give

00:58:19.340 this author thing a try? What should I have been reading for the last 30 years of my life? I think

00:58:23.040 that's a different reading experience because then I'm going back to read those greats. But now

00:58:26.700 there are time machines back to the time when they were contemporary thrillers. And that's when I got

00:58:30.420 to read them. Yeah, the imprint is different, for sure. So we talked about this a little privately,

00:58:35.100 but that in those moments in Bud's training, when you're freezing cold, and you've had no sleep,

00:58:40.740 and they're just dumping more and more on you. And you were telling us last night about getting

00:58:43.780 tell us about the tent experience when you have your two hours. Yeah, that's the one I wish we

00:58:48.480 didn't even get, I wish we did not get the two hours of sleep on Wednesday and Thursday. So you

00:58:51.720 wake up Sunday morning and then you get a little bit of sleep on Wednesday evening. As the sun's

00:58:55.840 going down, they throw you into a general purpose medium tent, I think it is. So for those who

00:58:59.820 watched MASH, it's just like a green tent with very thick canvas walls. And they put you in

00:59:04.720 there, but your body's been moving since Sunday morning nonstop. And so you're sweating, but

00:59:08.760 you're freezing. And it's just disgusting. It's like walking into a solid wall when you open the

00:59:13.260 tent flaps and walk in there. And as soon as you close your eyes, at least for me, I was out right

00:59:17.360 into REM sleep. And then it feels like you're woken up a second later. It's really been two

00:59:21.920 hours, but it's a second later and they throw the flash crash in there, which is like a grenade that

00:59:25.880 makes a sound in a flash. I mean, like you just skip over that. Like it's a normal thing. Like

00:59:29.520 they, like they shove the radio shack alarm clock in there. No, no, no. What did they throw in the

00:59:33.640 tent? Yeah. So like a little flash crash grenade, like it makes a bang. It just makes a big bang.

00:59:37.580 Yeah. But it's just a, but not, it's not going to hurt you, but it's going to scare though.

00:59:40.620 It's going to wake you up. Yeah. Okay. Wake up. And then they come in with M60 machine guns that

00:59:44.120 have blanks in them and start shooting over your head and you have to run down to the beach which

00:59:47.580 is like 20 yards away and then you go get the the omelet made for you by the chef or the creamy

00:59:52.320 eggs that comes later okay yeah they're teaching you how to write books yeah instead where where

00:59:56.880 do you have to go right into the water and so you link arms with your class and you go into that

01:00:00.160 surf zone and the brains crash over you and then you have quitters you know they we're gonna we're

01:00:04.300 gonna stop doing this only when we get five more quitters ten more quitters whatever which is not

01:00:08.180 really true but uh and then you can make it all stop by ringing that bell three times but you get

01:00:13.000 that little bit of sleep on wednesday a little bit of sleep on thursday and then uh friday

01:00:16.540 afternoon that's when it's all over you make it stop by ringing that bell three times and saying

01:00:20.120 i quit yeah and most quit you were saying last night it's like yeah about 80 percent 80 percent

01:00:25.300 of the class don't make it through for medical reasons how many started with you in your buds

01:00:29.440 training it was a little over 200 uh just keep it just keep it general so someone doesn't go back

01:00:33.340 and look up and i'm off by one number so we started in the 200s and i think through hell

01:00:36.440 week we ended up with 20 something and then you you roll for different things people get sick or

01:00:40.440 you know hurt their leg and have to go to medical and roll to the next class and that sort of thing

01:00:43.820 um but uh yeah it's a good it was a good little good little run and what's the distinction between

01:00:48.780 the ones who quit because these are tough guys for the most part who decided to even try this

01:00:52.440 it's not like the megan kelly's of the world who'd be like i'm so cold i'm out i know you like it

01:00:57.280 warm in here yeah i do like it warm it's these are tough guys for the most part to begin with

01:01:01.380 what so what is the difference between the ones who make it and the ones who don't it was that

01:01:06.660 mental fortitude. And you can't really tell by looking at somebody. You can't tell by looking

01:01:10.560 at someone's resume. You can't tell by how many pushups or pullups somebody can do. Because I got

01:01:14.820 there and I looked around and I thought, oh my gosh, how am I going to make it through this

01:01:17.420 program? Look at how huge that guy is. Look how fast he is. Look how loud he is when we're all

01:01:21.360 like getting motivated as a class or whatever. And I thought, oh my goodness. And then usually

01:01:26.140 those people are the first ones to quit in hell week. Wow. First hour. Why? Why is that? Do we

01:01:30.580 know? I don't know. I think it's something because, well, I can go take it to the example

01:01:33.700 of, let's say, a professional athlete or somebody who's been, if they have a little hurt on their

01:01:38.360 knee or something like that, then they go in and they get it massaged out and everyone tells them

01:01:41.460 how wonderful they are and they go right into the cold plunge or the sauna or whatever else you're

01:01:46.320 doing to make you the top athlete you possibly can be, whether it's high school, Olympian,

01:01:50.240 professional athlete, whatever it might be. And that's really not what we do at Buds. You're

01:01:54.600 looking for that. You're not looking for that Ferrari or Lamborghini that, oh, there's a little

01:01:57.880 sound, a little think, think, think. I better take it into the shop. You're essentially looking for

01:02:01.260 that Ford that's going to run forever and go through walls and make a bunch of noises. And

01:02:05.180 you're going to, you're going to play hurt. And, uh, I don't know why this is bringing this up for

01:02:09.160 me, but it's, it's like today the dogs had to go in for like an annual appointment, you know,

01:02:16.140 whatever. And the vet, they, every vet bill is ridiculous. They were like, Oh, you know, 0.85

01:02:21.640 thunder, she's getting older now. The strategist turned five, thunder's about to turn seven. And

01:02:26.100 they're like, she's going to need her blood work done just because she's becoming an older dog is 0.57

01:02:30.700 going to be $470. Now, Doug would have said no, just on principle. It's ridiculous. Nothing wrong

01:02:36.980 with her, but it's just because she's getting older. We have to take her blood, but I'm a sucker. 0.99

01:02:40.680 So I was like, okay, we'll, we'll pay it. Right. For sure. But that's okay. That's, that's fancy 0.98

01:02:45.700 veterinary care in the, in the city. We went to visit friends in Texas, um, when thunder was one,

01:02:53.720 It was during COVID and long story short, she, she had been spayed and her wound had

01:03:00.420 opened up and their horse vet was the only one who was available over Memorial Day weekend.

01:03:06.220 All the vets were closed and it was COVID.

01:03:08.120 Their horse vet was there.

01:03:09.560 He was around.

01:03:10.140 He was like, I'll see her.

01:03:11.400 So we go over to visit the horse vet and the horse vet is like to Doug, you know, like

01:03:15.540 you hold her down and I'll stick her with the stapler.

01:03:19.340 And Doug's like, is there going to be like an anesthetic for anything?

01:03:22.260 He's like, she's either going to wiggle when I hit her with the anesthetic or she's going to wiggle when I stitch her.

01:03:28.300 And Doug's like, okay.

01:03:29.500 So he did.

01:03:30.280 He held her out.

01:03:30.960 And then Doug's like, is there like an antibiotic or something?

01:03:34.720 She was running around with an open wound.

01:03:36.420 He's like, hold on.

01:03:37.440 He goes in the back.

01:03:38.260 He grabs his own antibiotics.

01:03:40.300 Nice.

01:03:40.740 Pours out like 10 penicillin pills and gives it to Doug.

01:03:44.340 And I'm like, okay, so this is the difference, right?

01:03:48.080 Like that guy is the kind of guy who could raise a Navy SEAL.

01:03:53.480 These veterans and I are not those kinds of massages, you know, make sure they're hydrated.

01:03:59.880 Right.

01:04:00.420 $470 on the anticipatory blood test for the older age phase of being here.

01:04:07.140 Anyway, probably difference between a city dog or a suburb dog and a country dog.

01:04:13.080 But in the Philippines, we're out there and you know how we say, don't let your dog have a bone.

01:04:16.320 Like that'll break a chicken bone.

01:04:17.560 It's stuck in their lungs.

01:04:19.140 So we're in the Philippines.

01:04:20.280 There's dogs everywhere in these villages

01:04:21.680 that we're living in.

01:04:22.900 And they just throw the whole carcass

01:04:24.940 of whatever's left of the chicken out there,

01:04:27.200 the bones essentially.

01:04:28.780 And they just, like 30 dogs.

01:04:30.840 And they're fine.

01:04:31.860 They're fine.

01:04:32.900 They are completely fine.

01:04:35.200 Everyone's soft now.

01:04:36.440 That's really kind of the bottom line.

01:04:38.000 It's kind of, this is Mike Rowe's whole reason for existence,

01:04:41.320 like to remind us of how soft we've gotten.

01:04:43.800 And Navy SEALs and BUDS training

01:04:46.060 is a way of seeing who's too soft to actually be a SEAL.

01:04:50.380 Yeah.

01:04:50.880 And then you were saying that not on top of that,

01:04:52.780 so you make it, you're one of the 20%

01:04:55.240 that actually manages to make it.

01:04:56.880 And my biggest takeaway in listening to you last night

01:04:59.200 was it's a difference between in these moments

01:05:01.120 that whole week thinking about yourself

01:05:02.700 and thinking about others.

01:05:04.840 If you can manage to keep it outside of yourself,

01:05:06.600 you can make it.

01:05:07.680 Yeah, I mean, you have to, it's a test.

01:05:09.180 I think it's a draw in that you want to test yourself.

01:05:11.320 A lot of young men in particular

01:05:12.440 want to test themselves some way.

01:05:13.940 They don't even know where it comes from,

01:05:15.040 but it comes i think it's innate it's within all of us we want to test ourselves somehow and where

01:05:19.020 does that come from it comes from we used to have to do it for our family our tribe our community

01:05:23.420 now our now our country but we used to have to show that we could add value to said family or

01:05:27.820 tribe otherwise we weren't going to be around much longer we had to be good at the hunting and

01:05:31.120 the fighting and we had ancestors that were otherwise we wouldn't be here today and i think

01:05:34.660 there's that something in our dna that that i listen to i tend to listen to that call so listen

01:05:38.900 to something that comes from that sixth sense that thing that's kept us alive for millennia

01:05:43.020 Uh, well, I still listen to that. So when I heard that calling early in life, uh, to test myself

01:05:47.380 and to try to become a Navy SEAL, to be one of the best operators in the world and go through

01:05:51.420 this toughest training ever devised by a modern military, or that's at least what I found out

01:05:55.420 when I found the end of the internet in the library in like 1982 or whenever it was, uh,

01:05:59.980 that's what I learned by doing the research that I did at that time. So I'm going to test myself

01:06:03.120 there. And I think that's innate really in all of us. But you're thinking about Iwo Jima versus

01:06:08.140 where you are in that water versus like, I'm so cold. I'm so cold. You're like,

01:06:13.020 think about what others have done. Think about a greater sacrifice. Like you're minimizing self

01:06:17.580 in that moment. Yeah. I think putting things in relative terms helps not just if you're going

01:06:20.280 through buds training or you're going through ranger school or whatever else, but in life in

01:06:23.960 general, cause we're all going to get knocked down. We're all going to face obstacles, but

01:06:26.900 really putting those in perspective. And so if failing that test is the hardest thing you've

01:06:30.900 ever dealt with, it's the hardest thing you've ever dealt with. But if you think about it,

01:06:34.760 you fail that test and then you think back to all of the things that people have survived for

01:06:39.140 millennia or just take it to this country. And for me specifically in buds, I thought about

01:06:42.880 those guys who are going over the beaches at Iwo Jima and Normandy and thought, I can do more

01:06:48.480 pushups here. I can make it through. It puts this in relative terms. This isn't actually that hard

01:06:52.980 in the grand scheme of things. It not only does it show your mental tenacity, but it shows your

01:06:56.700 smarts. Like it's, you do have to be smart mentally to make it into one of the elite groups of the

01:07:02.480 military in particular, like a ranger, a SEAL, sorry, but I mentioned them too, the Green Brays.

01:07:08.340 So like it's showing that you've got that.

01:07:10.280 But after you make it, if you make it,

01:07:12.940 you're one of the 20%, 0.99

01:07:13.700 you do not take off the helmet

01:07:14.880 and put your dad's name under that bell.

01:07:16.940 You do not ring the bell three times, you make it.

01:07:19.740 Then you have to go like underwater

01:07:21.840 and do all these crazy things

01:07:23.920 that like no normal human can do.

01:07:26.700 Well, that's the second phase, dive phase,

01:07:28.500 part of BUDS where they wanna make sure

01:07:29.680 you're comfortable in the water.

01:07:30.520 Cause you could be the toughest guy.

01:07:31.540 You could have that team ability we're looking for.

01:07:33.400 You could have that resiliency,

01:07:34.720 that moral courage, that physical courage,

01:07:36.560 all those things that we're looking for, but you just might not be comfortable in the water.

01:07:40.160 So when you do your open circuit test before you go on to the closed circuit, which means that

01:07:44.960 you're breathing a pure oxygen loop and there's no bubbles going up to give away your position,

01:07:48.800 you do a regular scuba thing, but you have kind of old tanks on your back, these twin 80s and

01:07:52.640 kind of an old school, early Jacques Cousteau type of a regulator system thing. And you crawl along

01:07:57.320 the bottom of the pool and the instructors hit you and smash you in the stomach. So you expel

01:08:00.740 some air and they pull the regulator out of your mouth and tie those hoses in a knot and rip your

01:08:04.440 mask off and then they back up and see how you handle it. And you have to go through the correct

01:08:08.100 procedures and the correct order to get your air back on, get everything situated and keep going.

01:08:12.100 And then they hit you again. And it's really just about seeing if you're comfortable in the water.

01:08:15.400 So you can lose some really good guys that are great with all the other stuff. And if they were

01:08:18.920 going through ranger school or the army Q course for army special forces or whatever it is,

01:08:22.720 they would have been fine, but crawling in the bottom of the pool and getting hit like that.

01:08:26.180 And the other things that we do to make sure you're comfortable in the water,

01:08:28.800 it's just, they just don't have that. To me, that seems closer to like, you actually are

01:08:32.600 close to death. You're underwater. You could die at any moment. They're messing with your air

01:08:36.360 supply. That, to me, just seems like it's less about discomfort. It's more about genuine fear

01:08:41.320 of dying. What did you use in that moment? Because I'm thinking, I don't know if Beaches

01:08:47.380 at Normandy would have done it for me. Well, I was lucky in that I was comfortable in the water.

01:08:51.060 For some reason, my dad got me certified in scuba diving when I was nine. I think you had to be 12,

01:08:55.080 but he was an attorney at the time. And so I think he talked him into it. He had that lawyer talk and

01:08:59.380 got me certified at nine. He was like, future Navy SEAL here, man. I don't know what it was.

01:09:02.700 Got to let him in there. Yeah. We had some great dives together. And I'd done going diving for

01:09:06.440 Avalonia up in Northern California, that sort of thing. So I was comfortable in the water at the

01:09:10.140 time. And also it's one of the only time in BUDS when it's you against the instructor. Usually

01:09:14.360 you're just getting yelled at, you're doing pushups, you're being told you're worthless.

01:09:17.600 But this time, and there's one other time as well, it's you against the instructor. It's how

01:09:21.860 I looked at it. Like, this is my time to go against you. That's good. The only times it's

01:09:26.100 going to happen. Another time they called these life-saving drills. They put, I don't know, five

01:09:29.540 or six different instructors out there in the pool and they all feign a different type of victim in

01:09:33.860 the water. And so you have this huge guy that is just lifeless and you have to get him back to the

01:09:37.940 back to the wall. You have someone who's fighting you and takes you down. And I love that one

01:09:41.580 because this is now you actually get to put your hands on an instructor. So you're grabbing them,

01:09:45.580 you're swimming them back to shore and then they take you down and then I just relax and they

01:09:48.560 bounce you off the bottom of the pool and they're, but they're now using their oxygen. So it's just

01:09:52.080 one of those ones, just hold on. Okay. And then you come back up, grab that breath, get a little

01:09:55.540 closer to the wall and then they take you down again. And so I love that because now it's hands

01:09:58.880 on. And that one of the very few times you get to do something like that in this year. So I love

01:10:03.140 that part. Oh my gosh. That is that the whole thing sounds quite terrifying to be honest with

01:10:07.460 you, but it does sound like you were made, you were made for that training and you were made

01:10:11.060 for the job. And there's a reason that the seals are so respected and people admire them. This

01:10:15.040 in, in getting briefed by like many security teams over the years, I've been told repeatedly,

01:10:19.900 Like in terms of your personal security, you don't, don't get like, uh, you don't, you

01:10:24.660 don't necessarily need to have a security expert.

01:10:26.940 You don't necessarily need a police officer, but if you can get like a former Navy SEAL,

01:10:31.860 somebody who's fine with physical contact, you know, who can kill you in two moves or

01:10:35.960 less, that's better.

01:10:37.340 That's better than having like somebody who's just more familiar with law enforcement.

01:10:42.040 You know what I mean?

01:10:42.580 Like, because they're comfortable with physical contact and they wouldn't let anybody get

01:10:45.580 anywhere near you.

01:10:46.480 Yeah.

01:10:46.760 I mean, there's, I mean, there's certainly everybody's different, of course.

01:10:48.940 And then there's now, we don't want to get to that point, having these different layers

01:10:52.560 of security.

01:10:53.240 Now you should hire like a tech guru.

01:10:55.040 Exactly.

01:10:55.580 Right?

01:10:56.100 Exactly.

01:10:56.660 Yeah.

01:10:56.800 You have those first layers in place because it's a scary time.

01:10:59.620 Now we do the work for, let's say someone in the 1950s wanted to rob your house or something

01:11:03.940 like that.

01:11:04.740 They would have to put in some work.

01:11:05.740 They'd have to find out the times you're at work, the times you're gone, who's at the

01:11:08.460 house, who's not at the house, what's the best time, like all of those things.

01:11:11.240 And they'd have to physically figure that out.

01:11:13.200 Now it's just out there online for a lot of people.

01:11:15.780 And so we're doing the job for essentially our enemy.

01:11:18.680 let's say a criminal element that they would have had to do themselves back in the 50s, 60s,

01:11:23.340 70s, 80s, 90s, even early 2000s. And now we've done that part of the job for them online for the

01:11:28.680 most part. So it's been a little bit harder target than than somebody else who's out there

01:11:32.640 in the public eye. Can you believe those stories that we started the show with? Well, I was supposed

01:11:36.840 I was trying to catch up on Iran upstairs because I've been busy doing things around here. And I

01:11:41.340 was like, I'm going to catch up on what's going on in the world. And I went on and then I had the

01:11:44.580 show on in the green room. And so I started to start watching and I was like, just put my phone

01:11:48.380 down and I could, I get so anxious up there. I mean, that woman having that knife to that kid's 0.65

01:11:55.600 head, I mean, some people will probably get me canceled. My, my, my publicist is probably like, 1.00

01:11:59.280 oh my gosh. But some people just need to be shot. Yeah. A hundred percent. Oh yeah. I mean, 1.00

01:12:03.380 there was no question that the world is safer without that woman in it, obviously, because 0.99

01:12:07.280 the courts were not going to lock her up. It's so sad. You know, it's like so many of these

01:12:10.940 criminals, it's like they went through the criminal justice system. Like that guy who shot

01:12:14.720 Irina in Charlotte, North Carolina. He was a nutcase. He had been in and out of the system 1.00

01:12:19.680 repeatedly. They knew he wasn't well. They were like, okay, we'll do, we'll do a psych eval at

01:12:23.960 some point, but sent him back out on the streets and he killed her. And now of course, the bitter

01:12:28.000 irony is now when he's finally going to face justice for this murder, this horrific murder,

01:12:32.060 they're like, oh, psychiatric issues. We're not sure he's competent. Oh, now, now we're finally

01:12:37.040 going to get the system involved. It's ridiculous. And I mean, at some point this is going to happen 0.97

01:12:40.900 to the wrong person's daughter.

01:12:43.340 And that person is not just going to go after the perpetrator.

01:12:46.360 And once again, this is another thing that will probably get me canceled,

01:12:48.520 but it's just, it's just, it will happen.

01:12:50.440 Someone is going to die and it's going to be the wrong person's daughter.

01:12:53.120 Someone who has 20 years of experience in Iraq and Afghanistan,

01:12:55.560 and they're not going to care because that person is the light of their life.

01:12:58.420 And they're not just going to go after that perpetrator.

01:13:00.420 They're going to go after those politicians who kept that person in the country

01:13:03.860 and let them out of jail.

01:13:04.880 It will 100%.

01:13:06.540 It sounds like a plot of one of my books, but it's, it will happen.

01:13:10.840 Yeah. No, we're not calling for it. We don't want that to happen, but people need to be aware

01:13:14.200 that the string of consequences that comes from these horrible decisions, and they are decisions

01:13:18.980 that lead to these people being back on the street, could have devastating consequences

01:13:23.520 for more than just the innocent victims, for, yeah, anybody involved in it. And like, because

01:13:28.380 you know what's happening, Jack, and this kind of relates to what you're doing with your latest book,

01:13:32.220 but it's like, there's a frustration with the system. The system is not working. And more and

01:13:39.080 more people are looking at politicians like they're all gas bags who make politicians or

01:13:44.040 make promises that they are not going to live up to. And you feel like, you know, welcome to the

01:13:48.580 new boss, same as the old boss. No one's working for me. The system's not working for me. The

01:13:53.300 government, I don't trust. The judges, I don't trust. It's like up to me now to keep my family

01:13:59.020 safe. That's kind of where you go in the fourth option. It is. It's really an exploration of

01:14:03.680 justice and through the eyes of two different people. One's the government guy like you talk

01:14:07.640 about. He's an FBI agent and who came up through the system. He went to law school, became an

01:14:13.160 agent and has done all those things he needs to do to make that next rank and work his way up the

01:14:17.540 chain. And he has a certain view of justice. He's a constitutional scholar. He has the constitution

01:14:21.080 behind his desk in the field office. And then you have Chris Walker. He's the protagonist of this

01:14:25.760 story. And he's the opposite of all those things. He's an orphan. He has this background as a SEAL

01:14:30.260 and a CIA guy. So he has these skills to do what he does in the book, but he's also a philosopher.

01:14:35.780 So he's a little, little different.

01:14:37.160 He has this battle raging in his soul between all these different philosophers that are

01:14:40.240 essentially looking for truth and justice.

01:14:41.780 That's what they're exploring.

01:14:42.700 And he has this battle raging in his mind.

01:14:44.960 And he's actually about to, uh, to take his own life, unfortunately, uh, when he receives

01:14:49.140 this call that saves it, he feels responsible for the death of his friend in Afghanistan.

01:14:53.280 His widow calls and says that her son was killed in this opioid academic, and she doesn't trust

01:14:58.260 this investigation by the police officer in New Orleans, police department in New Orleans.

01:15:01.700 Can you come out and, uh, and help?

01:15:03.760 And so instead of jumping on a horse, because this is my interpretation and my modern take

01:15:07.740 on essentially have gun will travel and old Westerns, the stranger comes to town narrative

01:15:11.400 like Shane or High Plains Drifter or Pale Rider, he gets in his Volkswagen van, pop

01:15:15.640 top camper with his Belgian Malinois dog, and off they go across the country to New

01:15:19.100 Orleans to start investigating and see what he can do to help.

01:15:21.400 And he unravels this conspiracy that goes up through police officers and politicians

01:15:24.420 and drug cartels and lobbyists and pharmaceutical elements and all of that, and then starts

01:15:28.840 taking him out.

01:15:29.680 Right. Well, like somebody who's figuring out how to find justice through a system that doesn't deliver it.

01:15:36.980 Exactly.

01:15:37.600 I don't know. Are we, by the way, it's called, again, it's called The Fourth Option. Here it is.

01:15:41.000 There it is.

01:15:41.520 Jack Carr.

01:15:41.780 Look at that.

01:15:42.360 Check it out.

01:15:43.040 Nice.

01:15:43.520 You can be one of the first in on the latest Jack Carr thriller.

01:15:46.580 There it is.

01:15:46.960 This is like, this is a thriller. It's a true thriller. It's not just like a military saga.

01:15:51.440 Exactly.

01:15:51.940 It's just for people like me.

01:15:53.000 It's, yeah, like my James Reese Terminalist series, the stakes are usually geopolitical in nature.

01:15:58.900 There's some end of the world type of a thing coming, not in all of them, but in a lot of

01:16:02.080 them.

01:16:02.200 And James Reese has to save the world.

01:16:03.800 This is domestic. 0.68

01:16:04.620 I wanted each book in the series to take place in one place.

01:16:07.860 So he has to, a stranger has to ride into the town or drive into the town in this case.

01:16:11.620 And in this case, it's New Orleans.

01:16:13.180 That's the backdrop of this story.

01:16:14.660 There'll be another one that has another city in the future, but that's the backdrop.

01:16:19.160 So domestic, the stakes are very personal, very primal, very visceral, but it's that

01:16:23.860 exploration of justice.

01:16:25.200 And in this case, you have that FBI agents that's getting closer to understanding.

01:16:28.260 chris walker's version of justice and then chris walker maybe he's getting a little closer to

01:16:31.640 finding that uh maybe the system can work and so they're they're getting closer and closer until

01:16:36.780 they come to this penultimate confrontation you're going to finally resolve this for all of us

01:16:40.440 now tell us a little bit about the hollywood factor in your life because not only are you

01:16:45.360 bffs now with chris pratt but my my favorite character from friday night lights yes is now

01:16:52.580 in the Jack Carr universe, Taylor Kitsch.

01:16:55.560 Taylor Kitsch, yeah, Texas forever.

01:16:57.560 Two very homely men who you're hanging out with.

01:17:00.600 They're both great guys, such great guys.

01:17:02.340 They're both great.

01:17:03.060 And Chris Pratt, I think most of my audience

01:17:05.040 is gonna like him because he's right-leaning,

01:17:07.540 he's Christian, he seems like he's got very solid values.

01:17:11.120 He's married to a Schwarzenegger.

01:17:12.960 That's right, Catherine.

01:17:13.800 Right, Catherine Schwarzenegger.

01:17:16.000 And just seems like somebody who is pretty well-liked

01:17:18.880 in Hollywood, even though he's kind of openly right-leaning,

01:17:21.780 which is like, he's the one.

01:17:23.660 They don't allow that amongst any stars.

01:17:26.160 Well, yeah, but he's very thoughtful and very kind.

01:17:28.820 So I think that breaks through

01:17:30.180 and kind of trumps anything else

01:17:32.160 when you sit down and talk to somebody

01:17:33.440 and it's just well-known how kind he is.

01:17:35.000 And just like in any industry,

01:17:36.320 you hear things about people and it leaks out.

01:17:39.260 People have found out about our show

01:17:40.840 and how supportive this whole crew and cast is to one another.

01:17:44.280 The Terminalist.

01:17:44.820 How positive it is, yeah, on the Terminalist

01:17:46.320 and on the Dark Wolf set.

01:17:47.560 So now people have heard in Hollywood about this.

01:17:49.180 And it all comes from Chris Pratt at the top

01:17:50.880 setting that tone.

01:17:51.780 and then it filters down.

01:17:52.980 So he's number one on the call sheet

01:17:54.100 and just filters down

01:17:55.180 across all the different departments

01:17:56.540 through hair and makeup

01:17:57.640 and mobility and stunts

01:17:59.220 and everybody involved

01:18:00.020 in these productions

01:18:00.660 and these 350 people on set.

01:18:03.300 And they don't have to come up

01:18:03.960 and tell me this sort of thing,

01:18:04.880 but they come up and tell me

01:18:06.020 that they've been a part of,

01:18:07.540 and this is across the board.

01:18:08.340 This isn't just one instance.

01:18:09.260 This happens almost every time I'm on set.

01:18:11.560 And they say,

01:18:12.280 you know, I've been a part

01:18:12.740 of hundreds of Hollywood productions

01:18:14.060 and I've never felt the way

01:18:15.640 that I feel on this set right now.

01:18:17.900 And I just want you to know that.

01:18:19.580 And so that's very cool to hear.

01:18:21.140 It does make a difference. He sets the tone at the top, and then people know if they can behave like assholes or not. 0.99

01:18:25.480 Exactly. I can see how somebody at the top can poison that set for everyone and make it a miserable experience for everybody. 0.98

01:18:32.180 And so Chris does the opposite.

01:18:33.340 And then the showrunner, who is somebody – because you have multiple directors in a television show.

01:18:36.560 So the showrunner, David DiGilio, he's in charge of all these different directors, and he's kind of the singular point of contact for everything.

01:18:41.820 And same thing. He sets this tone and wants everybody to improve and move up the ladder in whatever they want to do in Hollywood and is so helpful and encouraging to everybody.

01:18:48.760 It's a really cool, I guess the kids would say, vibe on set.

01:18:52.500 Now, are they all enamored with your military service?

01:18:55.380 Like, I would imagine most of this Hollywood set is like, they can't understand this at all.

01:18:59.820 Oh, well, now-

01:19:01.020 Not Chris Pratt, but the others.

01:19:02.120 Yeah, yeah.

01:19:02.300 I mean, Chris Pratt played a seal in Zero Dark Thirty, which is where I first thought,

01:19:05.960 ah, you know what?

01:19:06.760 He could play this part.

01:19:07.880 Of course, I wrote my first sentence of the terminal list.

01:19:10.160 This is December of 2014.

01:19:11.640 I'm still in the Navy.

01:19:12.640 And of course, I write one sentence, and I think, who's going to star in this masterpiece?

01:19:15.620 Yes, of course.

01:19:16.160 I think, oh, I saw Chris Pratt in Parks and Rec, you know, kind of, you know, jolly, overweight, you know, that kind of funny.

01:19:21.480 And then, oh, he became a seal in Zero Dark Thirty.

01:19:24.440 And he hadn't done Jurassic World, hadn't done Guardians of the Galaxy, hadn't had that A-list success yet.

01:19:29.040 And I thought, this is the guy who needs to do this for his career.

01:19:31.760 He needs to show people he can play a darker role.

01:19:34.140 And plus, I need someone likable because James Reese is going to do things like gut a bad guy and make him walk around a tree and then get eaten alive by the animals of the swamp.

01:19:44.200 So I need someone who's likable.

01:19:45.580 and the audience can stay with him.

01:19:47.480 You know, just in knowing you,

01:19:49.160 because we know you personally a bit,

01:19:50.620 that all this time I thought to myself,

01:19:52.420 Jack doesn't seem to have any PTSD.

01:19:54.900 Like you don't seem to have a hangover in that dark way

01:19:58.440 that a lot of our great military guys do

01:20:00.360 through no fault of their own.

01:20:02.080 And now I see it's because you're working it out

01:20:04.380 on the pages of these books.

01:20:05.540 It's very therapeutic.

01:20:05.900 It's very therapeutic.

01:20:06.700 I mean, that's a way of doing it.

01:20:08.000 And especially in the first one,

01:20:09.100 there's politicians

01:20:09.980 and there are senior military officials

01:20:12.940 who get taken out

01:20:14.760 because they're part of this grand conspiracy.

01:20:16.820 And the Chris Pratt character, James Reese,

01:20:18.700 really has nothing left to lose

01:20:19.700 because he's got this tumor and this tumor,

01:20:21.780 this drug that's been tested on his platoon.

01:20:23.920 And he's the only survivor, but he knows he's dying.

01:20:27.120 So he has no family left and not,

01:20:29.160 he doesn't worry about going to prison or anything else

01:20:30.920 because he knows he's dead.

01:20:32.320 And so he goes and does this thing

01:20:34.200 with completely free of restraints.

01:20:36.120 And I remember reading a book about samurai

01:20:37.780 back when I was in probably junior high

01:20:39.640 or something like that.

01:20:40.420 And it said that the samurai would go into battle

01:20:42.860 thinking they were already dead

01:20:44.220 because that made them more effective and efficient warriors.

01:20:46.040 Oh, wow.

01:20:46.800 And so I thought, how do I bring that to a modern-day warrior

01:20:49.000 who has this skill set from the battlefields in Iraq and Afghanistan?

01:20:52.000 And I thought, oh, I give them a tumor.

01:20:53.800 Oh, I have them drugs tested on them by this military establishment.

01:20:57.360 And there was actually some of that going on

01:20:58.540 and came out in the church hearings in the 70s

01:21:00.020 is probably what inspired the idea,

01:21:02.360 where they tested some drugs on, let's say, people in the military,

01:21:05.520 college students, people in mental institutions,

01:21:07.940 prisoners, like that sort of a thing.

01:21:09.140 It all came out in the church hearings.

01:21:11.080 And so I incorporated that into the novel.

01:21:13.600 But point being, it's very therapeutic to work through some of those issues.

01:21:17.620 And a very healthy way of dealing with it.

01:21:19.180 I think so.

01:21:19.740 I think so.

01:21:20.240 So now what about Taylor Kitsch?

01:21:21.560 What's he's like?

01:21:22.140 So great.

01:21:22.560 He is fantastic.

01:21:23.760 And he's a little bit like his character, Ben Edwards, in The Good Ways, meaning it's a different type of character when you meet him in The Terminal List.

01:21:29.880 Not in the book.

01:21:30.560 And I think the show is much, but so much better with the character than I did in The Terminal List book as the author.

01:21:36.840 Came out of the writer's room as a better character.

01:21:38.740 And then Taylor brought this level of empathy and compassion to this character who ends

01:21:42.400 up being a, I don't know if you have a spoiler alert.

01:21:44.240 I mean, I shouldn't say it.

01:21:45.020 Anyway, he brings this level of compassion and empathy to this character that if you

01:21:48.520 read the book, you probably wouldn't deserve it.

01:21:49.960 But then, then you get curious about, hey, what made him this way?

01:21:52.700 He's best friends with these guys.

01:21:53.840 He does this thing in the terminal list.

01:21:55.520 How did he get that way?

01:21:56.440 So we go back and we do the prequel story with Dark Wolf that came out last year.

01:22:00.280 And Taylor's just awesome, right?

01:22:01.920 We ride motorcycles.

01:22:02.960 We're texting all the time, trying to figure out what our next bike adventure is going

01:22:05.820 to be.

01:22:06.340 And he's-

01:22:07.060 Well, that's the crazy thing about you.

01:22:08.260 so you where'd you grow up uh northern california yeah but you're i mean you had a relatively simple

01:22:14.440 upbringing it wasn't like this crazy i'm all over the world i'm doing all these exotic things

01:22:18.160 and then you write these books they become huge hits and now like every time we talk you're like

01:22:24.080 off in another remote part of the world doing something really cool yeah so just describe some

01:22:28.080 of the crazy things that you've done because there's a lot of them but there's a lot of them

01:22:31.820 but also i'll do the one that's coming up when i get back from this i have a few hours at home and

01:22:35.320 I pack up and head to Vietnam and taking a group of MACV SOG veterans, and that's what

01:22:39.440 my book, Cry Havoc, focuses on, 1968 Vietnam.

01:22:43.000 James Reese's dad, Tom Reese.

01:22:43.920 I came out in the fall.

01:22:44.740 And that came in the fall.

01:22:45.640 Yeah, it came in October.

01:22:47.180 And we're taking with the Best Defense Foundation that usually takes World War II veterans back

01:22:52.220 to the battlefields on which they fought for a little closure, getting closer to the end

01:22:57.160 of their lives.

01:22:57.880 This is the first one that we're going to do with Vietnam veterans, which will be very

01:23:01.140 different than taking World War II veterans back to Normandy in June, where there's American

01:23:04.840 flags everywhere and 82nd airborne flags and 101st airborne flags. And even the kids, they've passed

01:23:10.060 on through the generations, this gratitude for American service, men and women. And they're just

01:23:14.780 raving American flags, five-year-olds, 10-year-olds, 20-year-olds, and everyone else. 0.96

01:23:20.540 They're just waving American flags and so thankful Vietnam is going to be different. So 0.90

01:23:24.980 I'll be back from that. It'll be a 10-day trip out there and take these guys back to the forward

01:23:29.560 operating bases that they worked on. And then some of the places that they had maybe a little

01:23:33.120 R&R on the beach that now have resorts, full-on resorts there, but we'll take them to, you know,

01:23:37.680 Saigon, now Ho Chi Minh City. And it'll be, it'll be quite powerful. How do you think that

01:23:42.000 affects a soldier? You know, I've been thinking about it in the context of the Iran war

01:23:45.480 because there's not majority support for this war at all. In fact, the public is overwhelmingly

01:23:51.780 against it. It's more like two thirds of the country's against it. One third thinks it's a

01:23:55.100 good idea. I think Americans learned a lesson after Vietnam, which is you don't take that out

01:23:59.660 on the soldier ever. You know, you, you root for the military and the men and women in uniform who

01:24:04.740 are brave enough to make the sacrifice or risk it. And, uh, I think we, I pretty much everybody

01:24:09.580 follows that now in America. I'm sure there's one small, tiny percentage that is a bunch of dicks 0.99

01:24:14.100 for, sorry. But, um, for the most part, I think we understand that. However, I would imagine when 0.98

01:24:19.620 you are the fighter, you know, the sailor or the soldier, what have you, maybe it's harder. Maybe

01:24:25.540 it's like a little bit more mentally taxing when it's not like post 9-11 where we were attacked

01:24:32.080 you know and i know you fought in iraq and afghanistan so you can speak to this a little

01:24:36.140 because afghanistan was very very clearly in retribution for 9-11 and iraq was more ambiguous

01:24:41.240 even at the time you know they tried to sell it as sort of related but i think people knew

01:24:45.740 no is it and now this one too is more controversial so talk about that dynamic for a soldier mentally

01:24:52.000 Yeah, you have to focus on the task at hand. And as a leader, that's the part of the art of leadership. There's no manual that says this is how you deal with consternation back home or whatever else, because our job in the military is to be prepared to go to war and then to go when called. That's it. And then do it to the best of our ability, because that's what we owe it to the person to the right, to our left, to the mission as a whole, to the families of the guys who are right and our left.

01:25:14.460 So that's the focus.

01:25:17.000 And as a leader, if you have people with questions, that's where the art comes in.

01:25:20.460 Like, why are we here?

01:25:21.420 What are we doing?

01:25:22.800 Let's say this is my second or third time to Iraq, and it's even worse off than the

01:25:27.700 last time, and we put all this energy and effort, and I've lost my friends and all the

01:25:31.860 rest of it.

01:25:32.180 Why are we still here?

01:25:33.440 Those are the kind of questions you have to deal with, and you have to field those in

01:25:36.740 a way that's appropriate, that doesn't dodge it, of course, but then keeps everybody on

01:25:41.420 track.

01:25:41.640 and most everyone is a professional

01:25:42.840 that knows that anyway.

01:25:44.460 It's a business almost.

01:25:45.760 It's a business that has some dire consequences

01:25:47.920 if you mess up.

01:25:48.880 So that's why you have to stay on track.

01:25:51.420 So it's more afterward that you can look back and say,

01:25:54.580 what was all that worth?

01:25:55.800 And how can we take the lessons

01:25:57.480 of what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan

01:25:58.840 and apply them to the next problem set as wisdom?

01:26:02.080 We're not very good at doing that in this country.

01:26:04.320 And that's really how we honor those people

01:26:05.860 who lost their lives and those people who came home

01:26:08.220 with the physical and emotional trauma of the battlefield.

01:26:10.440 is so we don't do that exact thing again

01:26:12.440 and we take those lessons and use it as wisdom.

01:26:15.200 But once again-

01:26:15.820 Well, what do you make of the Iran war?

01:26:17.140 Because I've been so interested to talk to veterans.

01:26:20.700 I've interviewed countless vets over the years

01:26:23.360 and they have a special place in my heart

01:26:25.560 and I've been watching the crew that I know

01:26:28.020 that I've interviewed and it's kind of divided, I'd say.

01:26:31.740 I'd say maybe half, don't think this is a good idea.

01:26:35.240 They kind of were banking on the,

01:26:37.540 we're not gonna start anymore,

01:26:38.560 a war is promised by President Trump.

01:26:40.440 But another section, like Rob O'Neill is one of them, speaking of Navy SEALs, who's more defensive of the president's actions saying, you know, this actually could make some sense and has been, notwithstanding the fact that he too has made a lot of sacrifices and was involved, obviously, famously in some of the biggest battles that we had, open-minded to the use of military action in the Middle East when the circumstances justify it.

01:27:05.380 and is saying like, just because Iraq wasn't great

01:27:07.960 and Afghanistan wasn't great either,

01:27:09.660 doesn't mean that this is a bad decision.

01:27:11.140 So where do you fall?

01:27:12.260 Yeah, so it's when I first,

01:27:13.940 I was getting up already to do a news hit that morning

01:27:16.400 when we announced that we're now at war, 0.59

01:27:18.540 essentially with Iran.

01:27:20.020 And so I was getting up to do something else.

01:27:21.300 So I was coming on anyway.

01:27:22.380 And my first thought was, this again?

01:27:25.740 Like, it was always sad

01:27:26.920 because we're coming out of these negotiations

01:27:28.840 and obviously they did not go anywhere.

01:27:32.080 And what I expected,

01:27:32.740 what I thought I was gonna get asked about is,

01:27:34.140 what do you expect to have happen in the coming week? And I thought about it for a second and

01:27:38.640 was going to say that I think we'll probably have some strikes in order to try to coerce 0.72

01:27:43.320 the Iranian regime into whatever we wanted out of these negotiations. And then I woke up and,

01:27:49.560 oh my goodness, this is not what's happening. It's not just limited strikes. I mean,

01:27:53.460 there are limited strikes, but not as limited as I thought they were going to be if I was

01:27:56.420 asked to talk about it before we actually committed to this thing.

01:27:59.880 It was bigger. So it meant that diplomacy had failed. It meant that any sort of covert action we may have had in place failed. It meant that any sort of upstream disruption operations, which means things that you can do to say the best way to say it to to things that are made outside the country before they get in, that can be part of a sabotage type operation.

01:28:19.660 So all of those things above and below board failed.

01:28:22.940 And now we're at that point where we're going to commit the military.

01:28:26.740 And so my first thought, sad, but nothing else worked.

01:28:29.120 And then I was like, this again, I thought we did this for 20 years.

01:28:33.100 Those are my first thoughts.

01:28:34.560 And then, you know, I looked at it more analytically, not whether we should or we shouldn't.

01:28:39.660 That'll come over time, I think, after I get to filter through more of what led up to this,

01:28:44.640 but in specifics when books are written and all that stuff.

01:28:46.740 But I look at it as there's a lot more at stake here than just the midterms, than energy

01:28:54.560 prices, than just moving things through the Strait of Hormuz.

01:28:57.440 There's much more at stake here.

01:28:59.040 And what I mean is that after World War II, we had the Brentonwood, we had the Atlantic

01:29:03.920 Trade, I think, agreement, whatever it was called, that meant America was now not going

01:29:10.160 to seize these lands that we had fought for in World War II. 0.85

01:29:13.040 We're essentially giving those back to Germany. 0.73

01:29:14.720 We're giving those back to Japan and other places around the world.

01:29:17.960 And now we're going to guarantee this freedom of trade across the globe.

01:29:22.620 We're going to take on the economic impact of that as citizens.

01:29:25.680 And that is very different than most wars throughout history, where you seize control

01:29:29.960 of land, you take those resources.

01:29:31.700 But what it did is it ushered in this era of prosperity, really unheard of in human

01:29:38.040 history.

01:29:38.360 And it's on the backs of all those people who've sacrificed so much in World War II.

01:29:42.300 So we have this period of prosperity that we're now enjoying the benefits from today.

01:29:47.040 And then we go into Iraq, we go into Afghanistan, and the world sees that we are not using our

01:29:52.120 military in an effective way like we did in World War II. 0.73

01:29:55.160 And we're giving this lesson like 20 years in Afghanistan, and this is the best the Americans

01:29:59.360 can do with the mightiest military in the world. 0.88

01:30:01.740 And I think there's a direct line between that and Ukraine.

01:30:05.700 And of course, China watches that.

01:30:07.400 So what are they doing now?

01:30:08.560 They're watching to see if we can use our military effectively to coerce the Iranian regime into giving up this nuclear program, which has been a red line for every administration for decades of both parties.

01:30:19.140 So there's much more at stake than just Iran, just trade in that area.

01:30:25.260 It's global because when you look at, let's say, China from mid-1800s to the mid-1900s, there's this hundred years of humiliation that they have.

01:30:34.220 The last vestige of that is Taiwan. 0.89

01:30:36.940 And of course, most of our military runs on these chips from Taiwan. 0.57

01:30:40.540 Yeah.

01:30:41.040 So, and that was a huge mistake on our part to essentially to give not our enemy in Taiwan,

01:30:46.500 but something that our enemy considers Taiwan, part of China.

01:30:50.340 Yep.

01:30:50.540 So I know I'll never understand how we let that happen, but we're so dependent on that.

01:30:56.300 And so people are looking to see if we can use our military effectively.

01:30:59.400 Can we be this force for global good?

01:31:02.220 meaning can we deter just through an example here, an example there. World War II was our example

01:31:07.200 for those 50 plus years of prosperity. Yes, we had a couple of things like Korea, Vietnam that

01:31:10.960 were people took notes. But today, all these years later, it's really about global world order. And

01:31:17.740 I don't mean that in a conspiratorial way. I just mean freedom of navigation on the seas. We've been

01:31:23.220 the guarantor of that since the end of World War II. And if that falls, then everything is so

01:31:28.700 interconnected right now. It's not just us that feels it. It's not just the Middle East that

01:31:33.200 feels it. It's the world that- Do you think somebody had that talk with President Trump

01:31:36.580 after he said, okay, we'll have a joint venture or we'll just leave and they can have it. Remember

01:31:41.580 there was that where he was like, we'll just leave and the straight will go back to being

01:31:45.280 available to everybody. And do you think somebody sat him down to say, that's not what's going to

01:31:48.700 happen, Mr. President. We're actually going to have to do something over there to secure it.

01:31:51.680 The straight's an odd one because obviously this is going to happen. I just don't understand how

01:31:56.700 from the first moment, this is not one of our primary-

01:32:00.120 Somebody's saying the Iranians are going to take control of that strait and use it as

01:32:02.740 a pressure point.

01:32:03.220 I mean, I just don't, I do not get that.

01:32:04.920 And we have no information on that.

01:32:06.760 So we'll, we won't know.

01:32:07.480 Well, the New York Times reports that he was told by Netanyahu that the Iranian regime

01:32:14.120 would be so weakened by the initial strikes that they wouldn't be capable of doing it.

01:32:17.780 Oh, yeah.

01:32:19.940 You shall see.

01:32:20.900 And when his advisors get out and say, hey, I told him this, or, hey, we had this plan

01:32:23.960 in place.

01:32:24.340 We didn't exercise it or we didn't move into position what we needed to move in position, even though it was in these plans for decades because there's plans for essentially everything in the world.

01:32:32.880 You need to dust them off and you need to adapt because your enemy is going to make decisions and your enemy is going to have a vote and things.

01:32:37.720 You have to adapt faster than your enemy, both strategically and tactically.

01:32:40.860 And usually whoever does that comes out on top.

01:32:42.540 But there's second or third or effects.

01:32:44.260 There's these contingencies that you can't possibly have thought of ahead of time.

01:32:47.120 But you could have thought of this one.

01:32:48.240 So I don't quite understand that piece of it.

01:32:50.420 How that wasn't better thought out.

01:32:51.740 Yeah. And there wasn't, we didn't have the, you know, we didn't have the 9-11 moment. We didn't

01:32:55.200 have the Pearl Harbor moment, but did we, if you go back to 1979, if you go back to 1983 and you 0.99

01:33:00.760 think of all the people that we lost from the EFPs, which are the IEDs that came over from Iran

01:33:04.880 in Iraq. So I guess you could think of those as 9-11 moments, but how much farther into the 0.74

01:33:12.040 future should you be before you take action? Like, why don't we have done something different in

01:33:15.100 1979? Would that have- Well, and like, look at the young people today. They're overwhelmingly

01:33:19.140 against this. They have no memory of that. They've only read about it in a history book. They care

01:33:23.180 much more about themselves right now in our economy and getting a job and all that. And that

01:33:26.560 just feels like a massive distraction, right? Like we're going to go off and we're going to fight

01:33:29.520 some foreign war, which we promised we wouldn't do. And now we've got our commander in chief

01:33:33.580 focused over there instead of over here. To them, it feels like a betrayal. To some of us who just

01:33:37.420 didn't want to see another Middle East war, it feels like one too. I mean, I personally feel 0.99

01:33:41.160 somewhat encouraged by the blockade, the partial blockade that we're doing because we haven't

01:33:47.360 ceded control of the straight to them. And I'm hoping that at least now that we're increasing

01:33:52.560 the pressure on them, right? Like they're losing something like $400 million a day as we control

01:33:57.080 these Iranian ports on the straight, that now they've got more skin in the game on this. And

01:34:00.960 now we're in like a standoff where it's like, who can withstand the pain more? Like us with

01:34:05.500 the economic problems that are going to come from this partial closure of the straight,

01:34:08.820 or you guys who are now losing $400 million a day. Yeah. And it's that we always do this,

01:34:14.620 it seems, that we mirror image the people that we're either negotiating with or fighting and

01:34:18.560 we put on them our values. And we think that, hey, this economic pain would do X, Y, and Z to us.

01:34:24.400 It's going to do this to the Iranian populace, meaning the regime is going to have to bend to

01:34:29.260 our will eventually. Maybe not. This is not a mirror image. This is a different culture with 0.99

01:34:33.980 different values. And they're revolutionaries who have been in charge. We tend to think of them as

01:34:39.020 the regime, but they're a revolutionary regime. So if someone else took over, that's a counter

01:34:42.360 revolution. So it's an interesting dynamic, but a lot of them are true believers. And you sit

01:34:47.200 across from someone like that, and you can't put American values on them. It just doesn't work that

01:34:52.740 way. So you have to put yourself in their enemy's shoes and realize that, oh, they might be willing

01:34:58.200 to sacrifice the entire population of Iran, just essentially in American terms, despite us. That's 0.80

01:35:04.180 not the best way to put it. But you're not negotiating with what we would consider rational

01:35:09.240 actors yeah they have their their own values their own culture their own history their own

01:35:13.260 traditions and uh and their whole modus operandi for all these years has been death to america

01:35:18.620 that's their that's their rallying point a central pillar that uh that rallies the populace to them 0.89

01:35:23.280 because the america wants to kill you israel wants to kill you all that so this is that this is our 0.51

01:35:26.740 uh this is what binds us all together and they're feeling emboldened because they fought the enemy 0.99

01:35:31.800 they were attacked by the enemy they fought the enemy and they're still standing like their

01:35:35.560 military is at the bottom of the ocean, but their insurgency, which is the same kind of fighting

01:35:39.940 that we saw in Iraq, in Afghanistan, is doing what it does. And, you know, a massive thorn in our

01:35:45.220 side. They won't give up. They won't surrender. They continue to find new pain in the ass ways

01:35:51.820 to make it really difficult for us, which is just, I mean, like, look, I haven't fought in 0.97

01:35:55.820 any wars, but I've covered them all. And I've talked to a lot of guys like you who fought in

01:35:59.060 them. It's a pattern. You know, you recognize a pattern from the outside when you see it. Like,

01:36:02.380 this is what happens when you go to war in the Middle East. They're, they're sticky sons of 1.00

01:36:05.380 bees. They find new ways to be motherfuckers as the whole thing goes on. They don't fight the 1.00

01:36:10.520 normal way. You can sink the entire ocean and they're still there finding new ways to be massive

01:36:14.860 pains. So that's what I see here too. I, I certainly hope if president Trump keeps saying

01:36:19.420 like every day, it's like, it's over, it's over. He'd have more credibility if he hadn't been

01:36:22.760 saying that from literally the first three days, he said it was over back then. And it wasn't over

01:36:27.420 and it kept getting, so I don't believe it's over. I'll believe it's over when it's actually over.

01:36:31.900 But, you know, reportedly they've made some progress on these negotiations.

01:36:35.960 So I pray God they finish it up.

01:36:38.080 They make a real ceasefire and they come to a peace agreement.

01:36:41.860 And we try to move past all of this.

01:36:43.880 That's my hope.

01:36:44.780 Yeah.

01:36:45.140 And the messaging coming out of the White House is the best way to put it is strategically

01:36:48.860 ambiguous, I think is the term.

01:36:51.560 I think that first part is being very generous these days.

01:36:54.460 So they're tough to decipher.

01:36:56.300 And then, but if you've listened to CENTCOM, those commanders, those guys just seem impressive

01:37:02.000 to me.

01:37:02.200 Yeah, I agree.

01:37:02.620 I was never really impressed with our senior level leaders when I was at the tactical level

01:37:05.480 in Iraq and Afghanistan.

01:37:06.380 And I saw these guys sit in front of Congress.

01:37:07.920 It seemed like, wait, you just said the same thing the last guy said two years ago or three

01:37:11.080 years ago or five years ago.

01:37:11.960 Yes, it's like another careerist.

01:37:13.220 Exactly.

01:37:13.660 You're saying the same things that they'll stand up, we stand down type of a thing.

01:37:17.040 We just need more money.

01:37:17.900 We need more time.

01:37:19.000 We need more troops.

01:37:20.040 Like every single one essentially says those things.

01:37:22.720 I think it was one guy in around 2009 said something different.

01:37:25.440 And then he was removed for other reasons, like a few months later, check me something.

01:37:30.380 I don't know what it was, but something like that.

01:37:32.720 And so it was just the same type of person in front of Congress every single time.

01:37:37.680 And we didn't understand the nature of the conflict in which we were engaged.

01:37:40.460 That was very clear to us at the tactical level.

01:37:42.460 But now I see these guys who came up in that time and know those lessons and are now in

01:37:47.520 these positions.

01:37:48.220 And they seem to me from the outside, of course, now I'm on the outside looking in and they

01:37:52.220 seem like they are much more competent than the people that we had in charge.

01:37:56.240 Well, it seems like CENTCOM is the one that said, we're not going to blockade the straight, 0.55

01:38:01.240 Mr. President, we are going to blockade the Iranian ports on the straight, which makes much

01:38:05.980 more sense. It gives them skin in the game, but it doesn't completely shut down all traffic there,

01:38:09.560 which is not good. So they're, yeah, they're, they're advising him well from the sound of it,

01:38:13.720 but you know, that doesn't answer the big question of whether it was a wise move politically or,

01:38:19.760 you know, to your point, for just beyond politically for the globe, was this a wise

01:38:25.620 move? And time will tell. All right. I want to ask you this. Yes. I was going to say one thing

01:38:29.860 about the early 70s. So when we have the oil embargo, I think people can check me in the

01:38:36.440 comment section and let me know if I'm wrong. But I think that only lasted for a few months,

01:38:40.980 but the economic repercussions of that lasted through the rest of the 70s. So this is coming

01:38:46.860 up on, what are we coming up? A couple months now. We're going to get through a couple months

01:38:49.500 here soon um so just things aren't going to change in a day and they have to know that that history

01:38:54.480 so uh would you feel better if kamala harris were our commander in chief is there a perhaps a sound 0.92

01:39:00.380 bite that will uh help me inform my well how about she this is her making fun of trump and unveiling

01:39:05.940 a new accent here at the national action network on friday sat 25 well he's pulled back because

01:39:12.640 you know, the way that he's thinking of foreign policy, it seems, is when he talks about America

01:39:19.820 first, it's to withdraw from these relationships and these connections. And then he kind of rev

01:39:27.440 acts like a mob boss. So then he's kind of like, well, you know, you take Eastern Europe

01:39:36.240 and i'll take the western hemisphere and then you over there you can you get asia

01:39:43.200 and we'll just divide it up right instead of understanding historically america has always

01:39:51.360 been about our global leadership imperfect though we have been okay that that's not a mob boss i

01:39:58.100 don't know what that is it sounds a little like louis armstrong with the raspberry boys i don't

01:40:02.060 know what that is why did you play that for me it's so painful to watch i missed the other

01:40:05.960 accents there's a lot of accents there's a lot of what are they with the world word salad she's

01:40:12.980 saying she might run again jack she could be the one to wrap this thing up if it if it happens to

01:40:17.800 you know get mired in the quagmire i saw her answer what it was it i might yeah or something

01:40:22.580 like that except she said it thinking about it she said it was it was something i just is that

01:40:27.460 do you look at her and think solution oh i think that's a that's a leader right there that i can

01:40:31.580 believe in right there. And it's like, it couldn't get that bad. Honestly, like people,

01:40:36.520 even if you're disappointed about this war, those of us who, you know, really believe the president's

01:40:39.920 promise is like, it's couldn't get as bad as thinking she was a better option. Oh, I mean, 0.62

01:40:46.220 I don't, I don't know what I would, I just don't know. I just don't know. I'm going to insulate

01:40:50.540 myself as I try to insulate myself these days as much as possible. I don't blame you, right? Who

01:40:54.160 wants to, who sees that and says, I want more of it. I want to be uninsulated from it. Oh,

01:40:58.160 it's so hard. Now, I have a question for you that I've been wanting to ask. Some Navy SEALs speak

01:41:02.800 out a lot about their time in war and in service, and some don't at all. Some have become like

01:41:08.260 public figures, and they're on the cover of books, and they become like influencers, and some don't.

01:41:12.980 What do you feel? What do you think the SEAL community feels about the guys who get pretty

01:41:18.200 vocal and pretty famous? Yeah, I try not to think about that because I knew exactly what I wanted

01:41:22.860 to do. I can't control what other people were going to say about my next chapter in life. I

01:41:27.320 knew I wanted to write. I knew I wasn't going to write a memoir or something like that. And I'm

01:41:31.100 not saying there's anything wrong with those who do, but everybody in the SEAL team is going to

01:41:34.940 have a different opinion of it. And I didn't want to have that waste any bandwidth that now in my

01:41:39.780 next chapter in life needs to be going into making this the best book that it can possibly be because

01:41:43.480 people are trusting me with time. They're never going to get that back. And that's something that

01:41:46.740 I take very, very seriously, whether they're listening or reading and which is harder to do

01:41:51.100 these days for someone to sit down and put those distraction devices away, devices that are

01:41:55.480 essentially keeping us from reading, uh, by the most powerful companies in the history of the

01:42:00.300 world. So very interesting time to become an author, but I wasn't going to, in my next chapter

01:42:04.940 in life, uh, get controlled by what someone might think of me. Um, and for the other,

01:42:10.900 just like your last chapter of life, you didn't get controlled by that.

01:42:14.260 No, no, I'm just going to do it. And, uh, I'm not going to, I mean, we only have one ride on this

01:42:17.800 planet. Uh, and I'm not going to have that ride dictated by what someone else might think of me.

01:42:22.660 So I didn't consider that for me.

01:42:24.980 Good.

01:42:25.420 Well, I wasn't even thinking about you.

01:42:26.840 You're not a self-aggrandizer.

01:42:28.900 Well, and I will say for the others,

01:42:30.320 I think that kids, especially in junior high,

01:42:34.240 high school, even college, they need heroes these days.

01:42:37.100 So like for us growing up,

01:42:38.320 we had Five Years to Freedom by Nick Rowe.

01:42:40.580 They had The Delta Force by Charlie Beckwith.

01:42:42.360 We had these books by guys who had been in Vietnam

01:42:44.200 and those were people we could look up to.

01:42:46.700 Those were role models.

01:42:47.340 Those were mentors if you didn't have one.

01:42:49.500 And kids don't have that today.

01:42:51.460 They have the influencers.

01:42:52.680 They're getting fed that by an algorithm

01:42:54.080 that's just supposed to enrage them

01:42:55.480 and keep them scrolling.

01:42:56.800 And now you can have this book

01:42:58.080 by somebody who did X, Y, or Z overseas.

01:43:00.360 Regardless of what the SEAL community

01:43:01.600 or special forces community or whatever it is.

01:43:03.620 I totally agree with you.

01:43:04.860 I take your point.

01:43:05.500 You can be a good influence on that next year. 1.00

01:43:07.140 My pal, Rob O'Neill takes shit 0.99

01:43:08.760 for being one of these guys. 0.98

01:43:10.060 But my interview of him,

01:43:11.720 which we did the first year we launched this show,

01:43:13.500 is my favorite interview of all time.

01:43:15.180 Anybody listens to that,

01:43:16.100 they want to go sign up for the military.

01:43:17.840 It makes them feel patriotic.

01:43:19.020 So there is value.

01:43:20.860 And there's value in reading Jack Hart books as well.

01:43:23.340 This one's called The Fourth Option.

01:43:25.020 Check it out and support Jack in all of his projects.

01:43:28.760 You're going to pre-order this one right now.

01:43:30.820 Jack, thank you.

01:43:31.580 Thank you so much for having me on.

01:43:32.520 Thanks for your service, your friendship, and your soul.

01:43:35.060 I was sharing it with our audience.

01:43:36.640 We're back tomorrow with Stephen A. Smith and more.

01:43:39.280 We'll see you then. 0.51

01:43:40.900 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:43:42.780 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:43:50.160 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 15, 2026

Steyer's Plan to Protect Illegals, and Gallego's Curious Swalwell Spin, Plus Jack Carr on American Chaos and Distrust ｜ Ep. 1296

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