The Megyn Kelly Show - Stormy Daniels' Inconsistencies, and Judge Losing Control of Trial, with Julian Epstein and Phil Holloway ｜ Ep. 786

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.280 That dress?

00:00:21.060 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.760 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.720 Stop wondering.

00:00:26.980 Start winning.

00:00:27.920 Winners.

00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:00:32.540 live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.260 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:44.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.560 We are taking a deep dive today

00:00:47.520 into the news breaking on several fronts

00:00:49.860 regarding the lawfare against former President Donald Trump.

00:00:53.980 You know, we've been saying all along

00:00:55.320 he needs to draw an inside straight

00:00:56.880 in order to defeat this lawfare against him.

00:01:00.220 He's doing it.

00:01:01.400 Every day brings more good news for the former president.

00:01:05.600 He's doing it.

00:01:06.980 Today, a couple of things.

00:01:08.500 Georgia's State Court of Appeals just announced

00:01:11.480 that it will consider an appeal from Mr. Trump

00:01:14.680 challenging the decision made by Judge Scott McAfee

00:01:17.880 overseeing the case to disqualify DA Fannie Willis.

00:01:22.740 You remember that she was not disqualified.

00:01:26.120 Well, that's going up now on appeal.

00:01:28.340 The appellate court did not have to take it.

00:01:30.260 They're taking it.

00:01:31.560 And so they're going to review Scott McAfee's decision

00:01:34.040 on whether she should have been DQ'd.

00:01:36.540 Huge, huge news.

00:01:38.680 Late Tuesday, Judge Aileen Cannon,

00:01:41.600 she's the one down in Florida,

00:01:43.380 indefinitely postponed the trial date

00:01:46.500 regarding the classified documents case down there.

00:01:49.020 And then Thursday morning, Stormy Daniels

00:01:52.620 is expected back on the stand in Manhattan.

00:01:54.940 Her testimony on Tuesday made headlines across the nation.

00:01:59.540 And if you ask me, it did not go well for Stormy Daniels.

00:02:03.800 You may hear something different if you listen to MSNBC,

00:02:07.400 but Trump's actually doing well in that case

00:02:10.460 on a number of fronts,

00:02:12.120 though I still think he's going to lose it.

00:02:14.720 The mainstream media, however,

00:02:16.720 this is like, this is the most exciting thing

00:02:19.340 that's happened to them in years.

00:02:20.580 Silk pajamas.

00:02:21.920 Oh, he was dressed like Hugh Hefner.

00:02:25.000 STDs.

00:02:25.540 They had a chat about them.

00:02:27.420 Missionary position.

00:02:28.460 Tell us more.

00:02:29.180 I'm telling you, this show called it

00:02:31.740 when we did our fake porn reenactment show,

00:02:35.460 reading the media's write-ups

00:02:37.340 about just him sitting there

00:02:39.280 during voir dire of the potential jurors.

00:02:42.040 Now they're at actual sex

00:02:43.780 and the media's beside itself.

00:02:46.500 What they seem to miss,

00:02:48.320 given all of their focus on the prurient details,

00:02:51.160 was the revisionist history

00:02:53.440 told by Stormy Daniels on the stand.

00:02:57.040 Listen, we've kept the receipts.

00:02:58.300 When Stormy was on The View this past March,

00:03:02.320 March, we reported on her change of tune

00:03:05.200 regarding the encounter that she had with Donald Trump.

00:03:07.880 Back in 2018, she told Anderson Cooper on 60 Minutes

00:03:11.660 that what happened that night,

00:03:13.360 she specifically said,

00:03:15.080 was not a Me Too situation.

00:03:17.820 Then, to The View, just a month ago,

00:03:21.500 she said she realized after seeing the movie Bombshell,

00:03:25.140 which was about the sexual harassment scandal at Fox News,

00:03:27.720 there was indeed, now she believes,

00:03:31.620 a power imbalance between Stormy and Donald Trump.

00:03:35.620 Watch.

00:03:35.820 They're trying to.

00:03:38.480 Like, oh, you know, Stormy Daniels comes out,

00:03:40.740 hashtag Me Too.

00:03:41.780 This is not a Me Too.

00:03:43.460 I did remember a little more of the words that he said to me

00:03:46.760 because originally I didn't know that they were that important

00:03:49.280 because they weren't direct threats.

00:03:50.640 It was more like,

00:03:51.860 I thought you wanted to be a, you know,

00:03:54.480 I thought you wanted to be successful.

00:03:56.000 You have to show me what it takes.

00:03:57.120 It was that kind of thing.

00:03:58.340 And I didn't really realize the gravity of that

00:04:01.340 until I watched the movie.

00:04:02.540 Here, I'm going to say the word again.

00:04:03.340 Bombshell.

00:04:04.640 That kind of thing.

00:04:05.940 That kind of language is a qualifier,

00:04:07.800 which means he may have said nothing of the sort.

00:04:10.160 That kind of thing.

00:04:10.960 He said, you know,

00:04:12.440 this thing about power.

00:04:14.380 Okay.

00:04:15.080 That didn't happen.

00:04:15.860 I'm just going to say.

00:04:16.700 Didn't happen.

00:04:17.560 That's a new fact she's offered just now

00:04:20.060 in anticipation of her testimony

00:04:22.380 and while they're doing a documentary about her.

00:04:24.800 But don't take my word for it.

00:04:26.600 Here's a closer look at what she said on the stand this week

00:04:30.720 versus what she has said in the past.

00:04:33.580 Keep in mind,

00:04:34.000 she testified yesterday on Tuesday

00:04:36.660 to how much she now hates Donald Trump

00:04:40.500 and how much she would like to see him incarcerated.

00:04:43.500 Speaking about the night she says they had sex in 2006,

00:04:48.680 Stormy Daniels testified that she blacked out,

00:04:52.820 clearly implying to the jury

00:04:54.240 that this was a traumatic event.

00:04:56.000 So traumatic she blacked out

00:04:58.400 despite not consuming any drugs or alcohol.

00:05:01.780 Here's what she said on the stand

00:05:03.440 per the Washington Post in the courtroom.

00:05:06.040 She had gone to the bathroom to freshen up. 0.83

00:05:08.040 This is before they had any interlude.

00:05:10.220 When she emerged from the bathroom,

00:05:11.800 she was surprised to find Trump

00:05:13.500 wearing a t-shirt and boxers and sitting on the bed.

00:05:16.420 She testified to the following,

00:05:18.260 quote,

00:05:18.760 That's when I had that moment

00:05:20.260 when I felt like the room spun in full motion

00:05:24.660 and I felt the blood leave my hands and my feet,

00:05:28.300 almost like if you stand up too fast.

00:05:30.400 She said Trump, quote,

00:05:31.620 stood up between me and the door,

00:05:33.360 not in a threatening manner.

00:05:34.840 I think I blacked out.

00:05:36.820 Next thing I know, I was on the bed.

00:05:39.320 I was staring at the ceiling.

00:05:40.660 I don't know how I got there.

00:05:43.740 She talked about the sex that they had.

00:05:47.960 She described the position in which it happened.

00:05:52.360 And we'll get to the differences there too.

00:05:55.620 After the sex act,

00:05:57.340 she testified, quote,

00:05:58.320 My hands were shaking so hard.

00:06:00.540 I was having a hard time getting dressed.

00:06:03.060 All right.

00:06:03.320 So that's her on the stand this week. 0.96

00:06:04.720 It was obviously traumatic.

00:06:06.280 So traumatic she blacked out.

00:06:08.200 He had blocked her way

00:06:09.740 when she exited the bathroom from leaving,

00:06:12.040 though not in a threatening manner.

00:06:13.960 And she was so shaken up

00:06:16.000 that she actually was physically shaking

00:06:17.780 and could barely get dressed,

00:06:19.500 was having a hard time getting dressed.

00:06:20.840 That's her testimony before this jury.

00:06:23.120 In 2011,

00:06:24.460 Stormy Daniels gave an interview

00:06:25.640 to InTouch magazine.

00:06:27.080 It wasn't printed until 2018

00:06:28.680 because Michael Cohen

00:06:30.280 was called for comment

00:06:31.620 on that magazine article in 11,

00:06:33.940 and he threatened to sue InTouch.

00:06:35.640 Boy, oh boy, have times changed.

00:06:37.540 In 18, they finally ran with it.

00:06:39.920 Here is what she told the outlet

00:06:41.300 at that point.

00:06:42.640 Again, this is from an interview

00:06:43.680 they did in 11 with her

00:06:44.700 regarding the encounter with Trump.

00:06:46.340 Quote,

00:06:46.800 We started kissing.

00:06:48.180 I actually don't even know why I did it,

00:06:50.480 but I do remember

00:06:51.800 while we were having sex,

00:06:54.160 I was like,

00:06:55.100 please don't try to pay me.

00:06:57.160 And then I remember thinking,

00:06:58.240 but I bet if he did,

00:06:59.320 it would be a lot.

00:07:01.220 Okay.

00:07:01.840 So far from being blacked out,

00:07:04.120 she was well aware

00:07:05.880 of what was happening

00:07:06.660 and she was thinking

00:07:07.740 about money.

00:07:10.660 Stormy went on,

00:07:11.680 you know,

00:07:12.080 it was one position,

00:07:13.480 what you would expect

00:07:14.540 someone his age to do.

00:07:16.140 It wasn't bad.

00:07:17.780 Don't get me wrong.

00:07:19.840 Okay.

00:07:20.220 So it wasn't bad.

00:07:21.400 She went on

00:07:22.000 in that old interview to say,

00:07:23.520 I was more like fascinated.

00:07:26.280 I was definitely stimulated.

00:07:28.560 We had a really good banter,

00:07:30.760 good conversation

00:07:31.460 for a couple of hours.

00:07:32.300 I could tell he was nice,

00:07:34.200 intelligent in conversation.

00:07:36.920 That's her description then.

00:07:38.560 All right.

00:07:38.860 He's fascinating.

00:07:40.080 She was stimulated by him

00:07:41.700 and it wasn't bad.

00:07:43.820 The sex itself wasn't bad.

00:07:45.980 Don't get me wrong.

00:07:47.020 Back to blacked out.

00:07:49.260 We're shaking.

00:07:50.980 The blood rushed out

00:07:52.200 of my extremities.

00:07:53.520 Oh my God.

00:07:54.880 Come on.

00:07:56.020 Usually I'm guessing

00:07:56.940 like if you black out

00:07:57.800 during a sex act,

00:07:58.560 you don't remember

00:07:59.060 how good or bad it was,

00:07:59.960 but let's move on.

00:08:01.700 The reporter for In Touch

00:08:02.960 also asked,

00:08:04.340 did you think the conversation

00:08:05.660 would have led

00:08:06.900 to what happened?

00:08:08.880 In other words,

00:08:09.280 did you think

00:08:09.860 that you were going to have sex?

00:08:10.640 Stormy.

00:08:11.240 Yeah.

00:08:12.160 Okay.

00:08:12.520 So she wasn't really surprised

00:08:14.400 as she testified on the stand.

00:08:16.620 She wasn't surprised at all.

00:08:17.860 She knew when having the conversation

00:08:19.080 this was leading to sex.

00:08:20.280 She was not shocked

00:08:21.280 as she now claims

00:08:22.060 when she exited the bathroom

00:08:23.200 to find him ready for it.

00:08:24.980 This is all revisionist history.

00:08:26.960 The In Touch reporter

00:08:28.040 also asked,

00:08:29.060 were you attracted to him?

00:08:30.520 She responded,

00:08:31.760 would you be?

00:08:32.740 And here's she said,

00:08:33.580 I was more like fascinated.

00:08:35.020 I was definitely stimulated.

00:08:36.520 We had a really good banter.

00:08:38.220 Oh, what do you mean?

00:08:39.220 She was stimulated

00:08:40.400 and had good banter

00:08:41.340 and found him fascinating

00:08:44.180 and interesting

00:08:44.820 and a nice guy,

00:08:46.140 not somebody who behaved

00:08:48.420 in some way

00:08:48.900 that caused her to black out 0.92

00:08:49.940 and lose the blood

00:08:51.160 in her extremities.

00:08:52.700 In the full In Touch interview,

00:08:54.300 Stormy never talks about

00:08:56.300 not remembering details,

00:08:58.100 being shaky, shaky hands,

00:09:00.520 or having trouble getting dressed.

00:09:02.380 In 2018,

00:09:03.420 when speaking to 60 Minutes,

00:09:05.440 Anderson Cooper,

00:09:06.620 she did not use

00:09:07.480 any of those words either.

00:09:10.080 Instead,

00:09:11.240 she laughed at times.

00:09:12.600 Watch.

00:09:12.960 So I excused myself

00:09:15.700 and I went to the restroom.

00:09:17.680 You know,

00:09:17.900 I was in there for a little bit

00:09:19.240 and came out

00:09:19.900 and he was sitting,

00:09:21.060 you know,

00:09:21.320 on the edge of the bed

00:09:21.940 when I walked out.

00:09:23.960 Perched.

00:09:24.360 And when you saw that,

00:09:27.120 what went through your mind?

00:09:28.980 I realized exactly

00:09:30.440 what I'd gotten myself into

00:09:31.900 and I was like,

00:09:32.900 ugh,

00:09:34.280 here we go.

00:09:37.300 And I just felt like

00:09:38.240 maybe

00:09:38.700 it was sort of,

00:09:41.400 I had it coming

00:09:42.060 for making a bad decision

00:09:43.200 for going to someone's room alone

00:09:44.920 and I just heard the voice

00:09:46.340 and I said,

00:09:46.660 well,

00:09:46.860 you put yourself

00:09:47.440 in a bad situation

00:09:48.280 and bad things happen

00:09:49.100 so you deserve this.

00:09:51.840 And you had sex with him?

00:09:53.200 Yes.

00:09:53.640 Yes.

00:09:55.340 Unbelievable.

00:09:56.380 And still,

00:09:56.940 at that time,

00:09:57.460 not a Me Too situation,

00:09:58.780 not suggesting that in any way.

00:10:02.020 Here with me now

00:10:02.780 to discuss

00:10:03.260 all the latest news,

00:10:04.400 Phil Holloway,

00:10:05.100 legal analyst

00:10:05.600 and host of

00:10:06.260 Inside the Law

00:10:07.360 on YouTube,

00:10:08.600 and Julian Epstein,

00:10:09.840 a longtime Democratic lawyer

00:10:11.060 and consultant

00:10:11.940 who served as chief counsel

00:10:13.580 to Democrats

00:10:14.280 during Bill Clinton's

00:10:15.120 impeachment trial.

00:10:17.860 Guys,

00:10:18.360 welcome back to the show.

00:10:19.120 My gosh,

00:10:19.440 there's a lot to discuss.

00:10:20.760 Phil,

00:10:20.980 your take on

00:10:21.860 what we just went through,

00:10:22.880 the difference

00:10:23.280 in her testimony

00:10:24.060 then and now.

00:10:24.600 You know,

00:10:25.320 Megan,

00:10:25.580 great to be here

00:10:26.240 as always.

00:10:27.600 Look,

00:10:28.060 we always knew

00:10:29.200 that Stormy Daniels

00:10:30.460 was going to have

00:10:31.680 credibility problems

00:10:33.140 because just like

00:10:34.100 other witnesses

00:10:34.740 in the case,

00:10:35.500 I'm looking at

00:10:36.120 Michael Cohen,

00:10:37.160 for example,

00:10:38.420 she can't remember

00:10:39.380 what she said

00:10:40.380 from one day

00:10:41.500 to the next.

00:10:42.260 And anytime

00:10:42.640 you get a witness

00:10:43.560 that gets in

00:10:44.340 the witness stand

00:10:45.260 and you can show

00:10:46.680 that they've made

00:10:47.460 dozens of prior

00:10:49.600 inconsistent statements,

00:10:50.920 and we're talking

00:10:51.560 about wildly

00:10:52.500 inconsistent,

00:10:53.760 it goes to

00:10:54.540 their credibility.

00:10:55.500 At least it would,

00:10:56.520 Megan,

00:10:56.680 in a typical

00:10:57.640 criminal case.

00:10:58.920 Here,

00:10:59.300 when you're in

00:10:59.820 Manhattan

00:11:00.260 with this Manhattan

00:11:01.140 jury

00:11:01.620 that's

00:11:02.240 pre-conditioned,

00:11:04.020 I think,

00:11:04.340 to sort of

00:11:05.320 believe anything

00:11:06.020 that Alvin Bragg

00:11:07.380 may be selling,

00:11:08.160 but typically

00:11:08.880 it would be

00:11:09.480 a fatal blow

00:11:10.720 to the prosecution

00:11:11.580 in New York.

00:11:12.440 It remains to be seen.

00:11:14.200 It's amazing

00:11:15.180 when you hear

00:11:15.740 the details,

00:11:16.640 Julian.

00:11:17.260 This is the New York

00:11:18.200 Times repeating

00:11:18.800 what she said

00:11:19.240 on the stand.

00:11:19.640 She's describing

00:11:20.320 a remarkably

00:11:21.060 intense encounter.

00:11:22.360 She says

00:11:22.640 the room spun

00:11:23.640 in slow motion

00:11:24.740 and the blood

00:11:25.700 left her hands 0.98

00:11:26.980 and feet.

00:11:27.700 Says she blacked out.

00:11:29.740 Okay,

00:11:29.980 so now she's

00:11:30.480 traumatized,

00:11:31.180 shaking,

00:11:31.960 bewildered.

00:11:33.120 It's a

00:11:34.060 distinction

00:11:35.820 in the balance

00:11:37.140 of power

00:11:37.740 versus

00:11:39.660 what she's been

00:11:40.980 saying a lot,

00:11:41.640 laughing.

00:11:42.620 It was pretty good.

00:11:43.920 It was not bad.

00:11:45.260 It was what you'd

00:11:45.780 expect of a man

00:11:46.640 that age.

00:11:47.580 I mean,

00:11:47.780 it's night and day,

00:11:48.720 which the jury's

00:11:50.320 going to know

00:11:51.040 because that 2011

00:11:51.980 InTouch magazine

00:11:53.940 was the subject

00:11:54.560 of the cross-examination.

00:11:56.280 Well,

00:11:56.360 yeah,

00:11:56.600 and I think,

00:11:57.260 well,

00:11:57.400 first of all,

00:11:57.780 good afternoon,

00:11:59.100 Megan,

00:11:59.380 and it's great

00:11:59.820 to be with you again.

00:12:00.780 I think the rift

00:12:02.100 that you went through

00:12:02.900 at the opening

00:12:03.520 of the show

00:12:04.220 is exactly

00:12:05.040 what the defense

00:12:06.660 attorneys are going

00:12:07.380 to use

00:12:07.900 in cross-examination

00:12:09.000 of her.

00:12:10.060 And,

00:12:10.560 you know,

00:12:11.420 I would hate

00:12:12.660 to be,

00:12:13.280 you know,

00:12:14.400 on her side

00:12:15.260 when that occurs

00:12:16.300 because I think

00:12:16.960 it's going to be

00:12:17.380 a pretty tough

00:12:18.080 cross-examination.

00:12:19.780 And I think

00:12:20.160 the prosecutors

00:12:20.880 will end up

00:12:21.520 regretting

00:12:22.580 even calling her

00:12:24.020 in the first place.

00:12:25.260 I think the judge

00:12:26.580 has let this case

00:12:27.660 get out of control.

00:12:28.620 This case has now

00:12:29.440 become an official

00:12:30.860 dumpster fire

00:12:31.780 on just so many levels.

00:12:35.460 But what they're doing

00:12:36.980 to Donald Trump

00:12:37.800 right now

00:12:38.280 is exactly what

00:12:38.980 they tried to do

00:12:39.580 to Bill Clinton.

00:12:40.180 They didn't have

00:12:41.460 a strong case

00:12:42.220 against Bill Clinton.

00:12:43.240 They don't have

00:12:43.880 a case against

00:12:44.560 Donald Trump.

00:12:45.440 So what they're

00:12:46.060 trying to do

00:12:46.800 is to dirty him up 0.56

00:12:48.220 with all of these

00:12:49.380 prurient,

00:12:50.200 you know,

00:12:50.520 details of,

00:12:51.600 you know,

00:12:51.800 the affair

00:12:52.340 and all the stuff

00:12:53.340 that you just

00:12:53.800 sort of went through.

00:12:54.960 And I think

00:12:55.580 at the end of the day

00:12:56.520 it risks

00:12:57.420 turning off

00:12:58.320 the jurors.

00:13:00.720 I think

00:13:01.440 it will continue

00:13:02.640 to look to the public

00:13:04.020 that this is

00:13:04.920 a political persecution.

00:13:07.060 And I think

00:13:07.800 if nothing else

00:13:09.100 this is

00:13:10.920 reversible error.

00:13:12.200 I mean,

00:13:12.420 the fact that

00:13:12.920 the judge

00:13:13.360 is letting

00:13:13.800 something,

00:13:14.940 a testimony

00:13:15.340 like this in

00:13:16.140 is reversible error.

00:13:17.220 This has nothing,

00:13:18.520 nothing,

00:13:19.220 zero to do

00:13:20.560 with what Donald

00:13:21.400 Trump is being

00:13:21.960 charged with,

00:13:22.700 which is misrepresenting

00:13:23.960 records and furtherance

00:13:25.460 of a federal

00:13:25.920 campaign violation.

00:13:27.200 It's completely

00:13:28.040 irrelevant to that.

00:13:30.180 To our last

00:13:31.220 conversation,

00:13:31.880 you talked about

00:13:32.740 Brad Smith

00:13:33.220 being disqualified

00:13:34.120 from testifying

00:13:36.480 at the trial

00:13:37.520 when Brad Smith

00:13:38.240 could have given

00:13:38.700 very important

00:13:39.480 testimony

00:13:39.920 about him being

00:13:41.440 the chief law

00:13:42.120 enforcement officer

00:13:42.760 at one point

00:13:43.200 on federal

00:13:43.580 campaign finance

00:13:44.600 laws,

00:13:45.420 saying that

00:13:45.860 hush money

00:13:46.220 is not a

00:13:46.600 reportable

00:13:47.060 expenditure.

00:13:48.380 And Donald

00:13:48.740 Trump probably

00:13:49.400 relied on that

00:13:50.300 kind of analysis.

00:13:51.480 So how can you

00:13:52.040 show he was

00:13:52.520 intending to

00:13:53.040 violate the law

00:13:53.780 if he in fact

00:13:54.760 was relying on

00:13:55.620 expert analysis

00:13:56.580 saying that

00:13:57.520 hush money

00:13:57.840 is not reportable?

00:13:58.880 Well, they won't

00:13:59.280 let that in the

00:13:59.920 case, but they'll

00:14:01.100 let something

00:14:01.620 completely irrelevant

00:14:02.760 like this,

00:14:04.100 intended just

00:14:04.760 to dirty him

00:14:06.580 up as much

00:14:07.380 as they can

00:14:07.900 in order to

00:14:09.080 poison the jury

00:14:09.920 pool.

00:14:10.740 And this is

00:14:11.180 reversible error.

00:14:12.800 They're trying,

00:14:13.580 Phil, to humiliate

00:14:14.480 him, and this

00:14:15.100 judge is aiding

00:14:16.860 and abetting

00:14:17.680 the effort.

00:14:19.020 The defense

00:14:19.480 went up there

00:14:20.180 before she took

00:14:20.960 the stand to

00:14:21.620 try to say

00:14:22.140 she is irrelevant,

00:14:23.680 her testimony

00:14:24.300 is irrelevant,

00:14:25.140 and certainly

00:14:25.620 any descriptions

00:14:26.280 of the alleged

00:14:27.380 interlude

00:14:28.060 are irrelevant.

00:14:29.760 And the

00:14:30.140 prosecution said,

00:14:30.940 no, we need

00:14:31.540 to establish it,

00:14:32.400 we have to show

00:14:32.920 that sex took

00:14:33.520 place, and the

00:14:34.600 judge said,

00:14:35.080 okay, so then

00:14:36.580 she starts 0.57

00:14:37.440 talking about

00:14:38.100 how they had

00:14:38.560 conversations about

00:14:39.300 STDs in the

00:14:40.160 porn industry.

00:14:41.360 She actually

00:14:42.280 testified and

00:14:43.160 was allowed to

00:14:43.940 that he didn't

00:14:45.120 wear a condom.

00:14:46.380 Okay, so the

00:14:46.840 jury's now heard

00:14:47.520 that he's having

00:14:48.160 an extramarital

00:14:49.100 affair with a

00:14:50.520 porn star without

00:14:51.320 wearing a condom.

00:14:52.700 How is that,

00:14:53.500 again, relevant to

00:14:54.560 the core issue of

00:14:55.360 campaign finance

00:14:55.980 violations or

00:14:56.680 falsifying business

00:14:58.040 records?

00:14:59.040 And she goes on

00:15:00.480 and on about

00:15:01.300 the details of

00:15:02.720 the missionary,

00:15:03.280 why do we

00:15:03.680 know it was

00:15:03.980 missionary,

00:15:04.540 right?

00:15:04.720 Like, all this

00:15:05.340 stuff she got

00:15:06.000 in without

00:15:07.340 much of a

00:15:08.040 fight, right?

00:15:08.880 The defense

00:15:09.300 stood up here

00:15:09.960 or there, but

00:15:11.220 not that much

00:15:12.280 because they'd

00:15:12.960 just been

00:15:13.260 overruled at

00:15:13.980 the beginning

00:15:14.340 of her

00:15:14.600 testimony.

00:15:15.440 And you and

00:15:15.920 I both know

00:15:16.520 you don't want

00:15:17.700 to look like

00:15:18.240 it's hurting

00:15:18.940 me, it's

00:15:19.440 hurting me.

00:15:20.180 You know, when

00:15:20.420 you've already

00:15:20.800 been ruled

00:15:21.160 against privately

00:15:21.820 by the judge,

00:15:22.360 you know all

00:15:22.800 this stuff is

00:15:23.140 coming in.

00:15:24.060 You don't stand

00:15:24.700 on every question

00:15:25.400 because then

00:15:26.100 you're just

00:15:26.380 telegraphing to

00:15:26.980 the jury,

00:15:27.420 this shit is

00:15:27.960 really hurting me.

00:15:28.680 So they pick

00:15:29.720 their places

00:15:30.500 to object.

00:15:31.440 Then they have

00:15:31.980 a sidebar and

00:15:33.160 the judge is

00:15:33.660 like, this is

00:15:34.740 not appropriate

00:15:35.260 testimony.

00:15:35.920 I expected

00:15:36.600 more objections

00:15:37.420 from the

00:15:38.120 defense.

00:15:38.760 He's blaming

00:15:39.360 them for the

00:15:40.340 situation he

00:15:40.900 created.

00:15:43.900 He's putting

00:15:44.680 them between a

00:15:45.480 rock and a

00:15:45.880 hard place

00:15:46.260 because if

00:15:46.680 you, you

00:15:47.340 know, if

00:15:47.620 you don't

00:15:48.180 object, you

00:15:49.020 know, you

00:15:49.280 can waive the

00:15:50.240 error for

00:15:51.620 appeal.

00:15:52.060 You can be

00:15:52.560 deemed to

00:15:53.040 have not

00:15:54.040 objected timely.

00:15:55.800 They should

00:15:56.260 have asked

00:15:56.680 for like a

00:15:57.380 continuing

00:15:57.840 objection or

00:15:58.600 something like

00:15:59.120 that.

00:15:59.880 Hopefully

00:16:00.200 everything that

00:16:00.820 was said at

00:16:01.300 sidebar was

00:16:02.000 taken down and

00:16:02.700 there's no

00:16:03.100 waiver issues.

00:16:04.800 But apparently

00:16:05.640 Judge Merchant

00:16:06.520 is, he's not

00:16:08.300 been reading his

00:16:09.260 slip opinions

00:16:10.240 because I think

00:16:10.920 he failed to

00:16:11.820 read that the

00:16:13.700 appeals court in

00:16:14.900 New York has

00:16:15.960 reversed one of

00:16:17.000 his colleagues for

00:16:18.040 allowing prosecutors

00:16:19.420 to put in too

00:16:20.880 much irrelevant

00:16:21.840 stuff and to

00:16:23.220 slime Harvey

00:16:24.420 Weinstein,

00:16:25.280 to the point

00:16:25.920 that it

00:16:26.820 created an

00:16:27.460 unfair trial.

00:16:28.720 And of course

00:16:29.280 that case was

00:16:30.100 recently reversed.

00:16:31.920 Judge Merchant

00:16:32.540 would do well

00:16:33.720 to take a

00:16:34.300 lesson from

00:16:34.840 that.

00:16:35.760 This testimony

00:16:36.940 is, I

00:16:38.500 mean, we've

00:16:39.500 said it's

00:16:39.860 irrelevant and

00:16:40.760 I don't know

00:16:41.060 any other way

00:16:41.520 to say it

00:16:42.100 other than

00:16:42.600 it's now

00:16:43.700 cumulative.

00:16:44.760 It's the

00:16:45.140 kind of

00:16:45.560 evidence that

00:16:46.180 even if it

00:16:46.940 were relevant

00:16:47.640 to one of

00:16:48.120 the issues,

00:16:49.040 it's so

00:16:49.880 unfairly

00:16:51.060 prejudicial to

00:16:51.840 the defense

00:16:52.500 that it

00:16:53.300 becomes

00:16:53.960 otherwise

00:16:54.740 inadmissible.

00:16:56.700 Now, the

00:16:57.180 only thing I

00:16:58.100 think that you

00:16:58.560 can say about

00:16:59.240 this testimony

00:16:59.900 that might

00:17:00.520 help Donald

00:17:01.600 Trump, one

00:17:02.500 of the points

00:17:03.100 that he is

00:17:03.620 making, and I

00:17:04.220 think he's

00:17:04.560 doing a good

00:17:05.080 job making

00:17:05.660 it through his

00:17:06.180 counsel, is

00:17:07.300 that any

00:17:08.380 payments, and

00:17:09.100 by the way, I'm

00:17:09.540 not going to

00:17:10.040 call them

00:17:10.380 hush money

00:17:10.960 because that

00:17:11.520 implies there's

00:17:12.240 something sinister,

00:17:13.180 but the media

00:17:13.920 will call it a

00:17:14.620 hush money

00:17:15.120 payment.

00:17:16.320 His purpose in

00:17:19.060 doing that is

00:17:19.820 not for

00:17:20.620 benefiting his

00:17:21.720 campaign.

00:17:22.320 Now we

00:17:23.560 see that he

00:17:24.300 could have

00:17:24.780 other non-related

00:17:26.540 purposes like

00:17:27.820 to avoid

00:17:29.040 embarrassment and

00:17:29.960 also for the

00:17:30.660 sake of his

00:17:31.340 spouse and

00:17:33.040 any number in

00:17:34.120 his business

00:17:34.920 enterprises,

00:17:35.780 things that are

00:17:36.300 unrelated to the

00:17:37.180 campaign.

00:17:37.880 So this, I

00:17:39.020 think, helps

00:17:39.680 him make that

00:17:40.480 argument that

00:17:41.200 even if there

00:17:42.200 was anything

00:17:42.820 wrong with it,

00:17:45.160 it wasn't for

00:17:45.960 the purpose of

00:17:46.800 benefiting the

00:17:47.580 campaign, and

00:17:48.440 that is the

00:17:49.080 so-called other

00:17:49.960 crime.

00:17:50.600 Well, wait a

00:17:51.960 minute, because

00:17:52.240 on that front,

00:17:52.940 she testified

00:17:53.500 that he did

00:17:55.440 not ask her to

00:17:56.320 keep it quiet.

00:17:57.420 The prosecution

00:17:58.140 brought out

00:17:58.640 testimony from

00:17:59.180 Stormy that

00:17:59.800 Trump did not

00:18:00.760 say, don't

00:18:01.220 tell anyone at

00:18:02.840 any point or

00:18:03.800 immediately after

00:18:05.540 it happened,

00:18:05.980 and they wanted

00:18:06.820 to bring that

00:18:07.260 out to suggest

00:18:08.780 Trump didn't

00:18:09.900 want to shut

00:18:10.440 her up until

00:18:10.920 he ran for

00:18:11.540 office.

00:18:14.320 Well, there's

00:18:15.180 also, they have

00:18:15.920 to bring that

00:18:16.420 out because she's 0.94

00:18:17.240 now intimating

00:18:18.220 through her

00:18:18.740 testimony, I

00:18:19.520 think, that

00:18:20.520 perhaps somehow

00:18:21.620 this was

00:18:22.740 something less

00:18:23.440 than fully

00:18:24.320 consensual.

00:18:25.300 I think that's

00:18:26.240 the sinister

00:18:26.920 motive behind

00:18:28.260 Alvin Bragg's

00:18:29.220 testimony.

00:18:29.820 I think he

00:18:30.300 knew good and

00:18:30.920 well what she

00:18:31.880 was going to

00:18:32.260 say about

00:18:32.780 possibly blacking

00:18:33.820 out and all

00:18:34.360 that sort of

00:18:34.920 thing, because

00:18:36.200 that's the

00:18:37.720 message to the

00:18:38.360 jury that he's

00:18:38.960 a real, real

00:18:39.540 sinister and evil

00:18:40.540 person.

00:18:41.140 To me, that was

00:18:42.100 the real purpose

00:18:42.800 of this testimony.

00:18:44.000 That, I mean,

00:18:44.460 it's truly shocking.

00:18:45.200 Megan, two quick 1.00

00:18:45.700 points.

00:18:46.220 Yeah, go ahead,

00:18:46.520 Julian.

00:18:46.660 Yeah, so

00:18:49.480 again, you

00:18:50.380 know, I take

00:18:52.040 Phil's point on

00:18:52.660 the NDA

00:18:53.120 hush money

00:18:53.740 semantic issue,

00:18:56.460 but you said

00:18:57.580 that the

00:18:57.840 prosecutors said

00:18:58.560 they needed to

00:18:59.060 establish that

00:18:59.700 sex occurred.

00:19:00.820 That's just

00:19:01.360 wrong as a

00:19:01.920 matter of law.

00:19:02.960 Whether or not

00:19:03.540 sex occurred,

00:19:04.700 there was an

00:19:05.560 NDA, and the

00:19:06.680 only issue

00:19:07.500 before the

00:19:09.660 court is

00:19:10.560 whether the

00:19:11.920 NDA was

00:19:12.600 misreported on

00:19:13.440 the business

00:19:13.880 records.

00:19:14.300 And I'm not

00:19:14.680 sure, by the

00:19:15.180 way, calling

00:19:15.640 an NDA

00:19:16.240 a legal

00:19:16.840 expense is

00:19:17.460 a misreporting.

00:19:18.260 I'm not

00:19:18.580 either.

00:19:18.820 There's no

00:19:19.140 clear guidance

00:19:19.780 in New York

00:19:20.340 on that.

00:19:21.840 So that's

00:19:22.920 one point.

00:19:23.760 So whether

00:19:24.340 they had sex

00:19:24.880 is completely

00:19:25.420 irrelevant.

00:19:25.920 The only

00:19:26.160 question is

00:19:26.660 whether there

00:19:27.080 was an

00:19:27.340 NDA that

00:19:27.880 was misreported

00:19:28.700 on business

00:19:29.160 records, and

00:19:30.120 whether there

00:19:30.560 was a federal

00:19:31.160 crime that

00:19:31.760 that misreporting

00:19:32.560 was furthering.

00:19:34.060 And whether,

00:19:35.520 you know, you

00:19:36.380 want to

00:19:36.800 subjectively say

00:19:37.700 one of the

00:19:38.160 purposes, to

00:19:38.940 Phil's point,

00:19:39.540 was not

00:19:41.400 reporting it

00:19:43.040 on federal

00:19:43.680 campaign records,

00:19:45.000 if you read

00:19:48.240 the rules,

00:19:48.760 the FEC

00:19:49.140 rules, it's

00:19:49.740 clear that

00:19:50.860 an NDA is

00:19:51.760 not considered

00:19:52.760 a reportable

00:19:53.580 campaign expenditure.

00:19:54.400 What matters is

00:19:56.160 the nature of

00:19:56.660 the expenditure,

00:19:57.540 not the

00:19:57.860 subjective

00:19:58.260 motivation in

00:19:59.460 the payor's

00:20:00.260 mind.

00:20:00.760 Even if it

00:20:01.280 was, correct,

00:20:03.360 but even if it

00:20:03.860 was, it

00:20:04.260 wouldn't have

00:20:04.540 been reportable

00:20:05.180 until 2017.

00:20:06.600 So it wouldn't

00:20:07.120 have been

00:20:07.300 appeared in

00:20:07.660 the 2016

00:20:08.400 election.

00:20:09.580 When he was

00:20:10.260 already in

00:20:10.540 office, and

00:20:10.840 even if it

00:20:11.300 was, Braggers

00:20:12.220 don't have

00:20:12.500 jurisdiction to

00:20:13.300 enforce that.

00:20:14.360 So this case

00:20:15.520 has become a

00:20:16.220 joke.

00:20:16.800 I mean, this

00:20:17.140 is embarrassing.

00:20:18.020 This is exactly

00:20:19.160 what the left

00:20:19.760 argued during the

00:20:20.500 Bill Clinton

00:20:20.980 and another

00:20:21.400 prosecution.

00:20:21.840 I mean, we

00:20:22.720 know that the

00:20:23.840 sweeping

00:20:24.340 condemnations are

00:20:25.180 interesting, but I

00:20:25.760 want to stay to

00:20:26.200 the specifics

00:20:26.580 because we've

00:20:27.580 got a lot of

00:20:27.980 them to get 0.86

00:20:28.280 through today.

00:20:29.240 And that brings

00:20:29.980 me to Stormy's

00:20:30.620 claim.

00:20:31.000 This is another

00:20:31.440 area in which

00:20:32.060 they tried to

00:20:32.920 ding her up 1.00

00:20:33.600 on cross.

00:20:34.680 She claimed

00:20:35.700 that she was

00:20:38.360 threatened.

00:20:39.600 So the

00:20:39.880 prosecution is

00:20:40.440 trying to say

00:20:41.020 you came

00:20:43.440 forward and

00:20:44.800 or you did

00:20:45.620 not come

00:20:46.040 forward, right?

00:20:46.820 You did not

00:20:47.380 come forward to

00:20:48.000 say anything

00:20:48.520 about this.

00:20:50.980 Until you

00:20:51.420 decided to

00:20:51.920 shake down

00:20:52.560 Donald Trump.

00:20:53.220 That's what

00:20:53.440 you wanted to

00:20:53.860 do.

00:20:54.080 Shake him

00:20:54.420 down.

00:20:54.840 And she's

00:20:55.520 like, no,

00:20:56.060 the reason I

00:20:56.820 didn't come

00:20:57.180 forward earlier

00:20:57.760 is because I

00:20:58.580 was threatened.

00:20:59.640 I was in a

00:21:00.340 parking lot

00:21:01.060 years ago,

00:21:03.200 like after it

00:21:03.880 happened, closer

00:21:04.520 in time to when

00:21:05.000 it happened.

00:21:05.540 And a man

00:21:06.580 came up to me

00:21:08.500 in a parking

00:21:09.080 lot when I

00:21:10.220 was in Las

00:21:10.620 Vegas with my

00:21:11.380 daughter.

00:21:12.460 And she

00:21:13.700 he threatened

00:21:15.860 me that if I

00:21:16.640 told people I

00:21:17.480 was going to be

00:21:18.160 in some sort of

00:21:18.580 trouble.

00:21:19.160 And she says

00:21:20.240 that she

00:21:20.980 didn't report

00:21:21.560 it because it

00:21:22.600 would have been

00:21:22.920 upsetting to the

00:21:23.560 person she was

00:21:24.060 in a relationship

00:21:24.580 with at the

00:21:25.100 time.

00:21:26.160 Now, the New

00:21:26.420 York Times

00:21:26.740 reports that

00:21:27.400 this is an

00:21:28.160 account.

00:21:28.840 This is an

00:21:29.500 account she

00:21:29.840 never told

00:21:30.320 some of the

00:21:30.700 people who

00:21:31.580 worked closely

00:21:32.160 with her on

00:21:33.420 the NDA.

00:21:35.260 And she first

00:21:35.920 revealed it in

00:21:36.540 that 60 0.62

00:21:37.060 Minutes interview

00:21:37.640 in 2018.

00:21:39.600 All right.

00:21:40.100 So now in

00:21:40.700 2018, she

00:21:42.000 first time for

00:21:42.980 the first time

00:21:43.440 says the reason

00:21:44.060 I haven't come

00:21:44.500 forward until

00:21:45.440 now, 12 years

00:21:47.220 after the act,

00:21:47.940 by that point,

00:21:48.640 was because somebody

00:21:49.540 threatened me.

00:21:50.060 And the

00:21:50.660 prosecution got

00:21:51.720 all over her.

00:21:54.060 Actually, wait, we

00:21:54.820 have a soundbite of

00:21:55.560 what she told

00:21:56.520 Anderson Cooper in

00:21:58.340 2018 about what

00:21:59.640 she did right after

00:22:00.760 this alleged scary

00:22:01.880 parking lot threat.

00:22:03.700 And a guy walked

00:22:06.860 up on me and

00:22:08.360 said to me,

00:22:09.900 leave Trump

00:22:10.500 alone, forget

00:22:11.180 the story.

00:22:12.060 And then he

00:22:12.580 leaned around and

00:22:13.240 looked at my

00:22:13.620 daughter and said,

00:22:14.540 a beautiful little

00:22:15.480 girl, it'd be a shame

00:22:16.200 if something happened

00:22:16.720 to her mom.

00:22:17.260 And then he was

00:22:17.680 gone.

00:22:18.260 I was rattled.

00:22:19.160 I remember going

00:22:19.620 into the workout

00:22:20.960 class and my hands

00:22:22.600 were shaking so much

00:22:23.240 I was afraid I was

00:22:23.820 going to drop her.

00:22:24.940 Did you go to the

00:22:25.480 police?

00:22:25.980 No.

00:22:26.620 Why?

00:22:27.360 Because I was

00:22:28.280 scared.

00:22:28.580 OK, so back

00:22:31.020 then she says, I'm

00:22:32.880 rattled and the

00:22:34.640 prosecution gets up

00:22:36.620 to her, gets up in

00:22:37.800 her grill and says 0.98

00:22:38.600 in your book, you

00:22:40.160 write that you went

00:22:41.040 to an exercise

00:22:42.160 class after this

00:22:44.280 alleged threat.

00:22:46.480 So you went to an

00:22:47.700 exercise class and

00:22:48.780 the defense is trying

00:22:49.980 to suggest she made

00:22:50.860 up the whole thing

00:22:51.940 to explain why she

00:22:53.600 didn't come forward

00:22:54.680 earlier.

00:22:55.340 The question by the

00:22:56.200 defense counsel was

00:22:57.200 you were using it

00:22:58.900 as an excuse to

00:23:00.140 lie.

00:23:00.800 You use this

00:23:01.840 supposed threat as

00:23:02.920 an excuse for why

00:23:04.360 you did not talk

00:23:05.460 publicly.

00:23:06.620 She said the man

00:23:08.140 who allegedly

00:23:09.060 threatened you

00:23:09.800 doesn't exist,

00:23:11.200 does he?

00:23:12.320 I thought that was

00:23:13.120 actually quite

00:23:13.660 effective because

00:23:14.900 who goes into an

00:23:16.420 exercise class right

00:23:17.900 after they've been

00:23:18.640 threatened?

00:23:19.560 Their life has been

00:23:20.320 threatened if they

00:23:20.880 reveal that they've

00:23:21.760 had sex with Donald

00:23:22.440 Trump.

00:23:26.160 Yeah.

00:23:26.600 If you're asking

00:23:27.100 me, I don't

00:23:27.540 think anybody

00:23:28.240 does.

00:23:28.660 This is the kind

00:23:29.280 of thing that it

00:23:31.540 just defies common

00:23:33.940 sense.

00:23:34.460 It defies belief.

00:23:36.340 It's the kind of

00:23:36.980 thing that there's no

00:23:38.220 way that it's ever

00:23:39.000 going to be able to

00:23:39.820 be conclusively proven

00:23:41.240 one way or the

00:23:42.540 other.

00:23:42.800 And it's the kind of

00:23:43.380 thing if you like

00:23:44.600 Donald Trump or

00:23:45.480 you're at least not

00:23:48.300 opposed to the man,

00:23:49.280 you might tend to

00:23:50.580 say, well, she's

00:23:51.220 lying.

00:23:51.500 But on the other

00:23:51.980 hand, if you just

00:23:52.760 can't see past your

00:23:53.940 visceral hatred for the

00:23:55.480 defendant, you

00:23:56.460 absolutely believe

00:23:57.620 that that is the

00:23:58.300 gospel truth.

00:23:59.720 And so it's easy

00:24:01.100 for the kind of

00:24:01.780 thing for a witness

00:24:02.420 to just come out

00:24:03.180 and say because

00:24:04.300 there's no way to

00:24:06.200 prove or disprove it.

00:24:07.520 We're not going to

00:24:08.120 hear from anybody

00:24:08.820 else that was there.

00:24:09.940 We're not going to

00:24:10.440 see any security

00:24:11.540 camera videos from

00:24:12.740 wherever it was.

00:24:13.460 There's no police

00:24:14.160 reports.

00:24:14.620 There's no

00:24:15.080 investigation.

00:24:16.240 It's easy to

00:24:17.440 fabricate and

00:24:18.720 difficult to

00:24:19.600 disprove.

00:24:20.360 It's the kind of

00:24:21.140 thing that all the

00:24:22.060 defense lawyer can do

00:24:23.540 is ask the question

00:24:25.460 the way that he

00:24:26.440 asked it and

00:24:27.460 leave it there

00:24:28.080 because there's no

00:24:28.860 way to prove it

00:24:29.640 through any kind of

00:24:30.920 intrinsic facts

00:24:31.780 otherwise.

00:24:32.380 So they're just

00:24:32.680 trying to chip away

00:24:33.580 at her credibility,

00:24:34.520 ding her up and 0.99

00:24:35.040 ding her up. 1.00

00:24:35.960 And Julian, they

00:24:37.520 did that by getting

00:24:38.780 her in part to

00:24:39.520 admit she hates

00:24:41.120 Donald Trump.

00:24:42.320 She would love to

00:24:43.400 see him incarcerated.

00:24:44.900 And also she

00:24:46.060 admitted on the

00:24:46.560 stand that even

00:24:47.240 though she's been

00:24:47.740 ordered by a federal

00:24:48.500 judge to pay his

00:24:49.520 attorney's costs in

00:24:51.320 connection with a

00:24:51.820 defamation suit she

00:24:52.680 brought against him

00:24:53.300 and lost, she

00:24:54.520 won't pay it at

00:24:55.200 some, I think,

00:24:55.640 500,000 bucks.

00:24:56.540 And she said on

00:24:57.320 cross, I'm not

00:24:57.940 going to pay it.

00:24:58.460 I don't care.

00:24:58.980 She admitted that

00:24:59.620 she had previously

00:25:00.380 said she'll never

00:25:01.600 pay it and she

00:25:02.120 doesn't care about

00:25:02.660 the court order.

00:25:03.640 So this jury is

00:25:04.300 hearing she'll

00:25:05.180 defy a court order

00:25:06.460 to pay what she

00:25:07.420 owes when it

00:25:08.480 comes to Donald

00:25:09.000 Trump.

00:25:09.600 She's dying to

00:25:10.420 see him incarcerated

00:25:11.200 and she hates

00:25:11.820 him.

00:25:12.700 And they have

00:25:13.640 more than enough

00:25:14.220 basis to disregard

00:25:15.520 every word she

00:25:17.460 has said for that

00:25:18.620 reason alone,

00:25:19.580 never mind the

00:25:20.140 many inconsistencies

00:25:21.380 we just went

00:25:21.880 through, many of

00:25:22.840 which they heard

00:25:23.240 about.

00:25:25.980 Well, this is why

00:25:26.860 I think the

00:25:27.260 prosecution may

00:25:28.080 regret calling

00:25:29.260 her.

00:25:29.720 I think the

00:25:30.260 defense is going

00:25:30.960 to make mincemeat

00:25:31.860 out on cross

00:25:33.120 examination.

00:25:35.020 As Phil said,

00:25:35.900 as for this

00:25:36.360 2011 incident,

00:25:37.660 it's completely

00:25:38.040 impossible to

00:25:38.680 prove it was

00:25:39.160 true.

00:25:40.040 And no one has

00:25:41.200 tried to attach

00:25:42.180 Donald Trump to

00:25:43.060 it, even if it

00:25:43.660 were true.

00:25:44.320 If you were to

00:25:45.240 attach Donald

00:25:46.180 Trump to it,

00:25:46.580 it would prove he

00:25:47.100 wanted to keep

00:25:48.260 the affair quiet

00:25:49.500 long before he

00:25:50.500 ran for president.

00:25:51.300 Let me just add

00:25:52.300 to that for one

00:25:52.780 second, Julian.

00:25:53.360 Even on that

00:25:53.920 front, Michael

00:25:54.540 Cohen, who's

00:25:55.600 now turned in

00:25:56.380 favor of the

00:25:57.300 prosecution and

00:25:58.040 against Donald

00:25:58.560 Trump, even he

00:25:59.720 has never to

00:26:00.620 this day alleged

00:26:01.980 that somebody in

00:26:03.320 Trump's orbit or

00:26:04.120 Trump himself or

00:26:04.920 he is the

00:26:05.560 conciliarity Trump

00:26:06.480 dispatched somebody

00:26:07.600 to go threaten

00:26:08.400 Stormy Daniels.

00:26:09.540 It's a lie.

00:26:11.160 She told the

00:26:12.020 lie to justify

00:26:13.120 why she didn't

00:26:14.120 come forward all

00:26:14.920 that time and

00:26:16.200 the defense

00:26:17.300 attorneys were

00:26:18.420 on to it.

00:26:19.300 Go ahead.

00:26:20.940 But there's a

00:26:21.680 bigger point, too.

00:26:23.340 All of this

00:26:24.180 stuff we are

00:26:24.720 talking about is

00:26:26.000 completely irrelevant.

00:26:28.100 It has nothing

00:26:29.200 to do with

00:26:30.760 whether or not

00:26:31.600 the records were

00:26:32.360 falsified, as we

00:26:33.260 just mentioned.

00:26:33.900 It's not clear that

00:26:34.540 they were.

00:26:35.260 And it has nothing

00:26:36.340 to do with whether

00:26:37.120 they were falsified

00:26:37.880 in furtherance of

00:26:38.740 some federal crime

00:26:39.600 which wasn't a

00:26:40.180 crime.

00:26:41.120 So what has

00:26:42.700 happened is the

00:26:44.400 judge here has

00:26:46.440 completely lost

00:26:47.260 control of this

00:26:48.020 trial and is

00:26:50.360 now trying to

00:26:51.460 is has become

00:26:53.120 and remember

00:26:53.860 this judge

00:26:54.420 made political

00:26:56.600 contributions to

00:26:57.660 Biden in

00:26:59.540 2020.

00:27:00.980 His daughter is

00:27:02.060 a political

00:27:02.520 activist.

00:27:03.380 I wouldn't

00:27:03.760 normally say

00:27:04.220 these kinds of

00:27:04.760 things, but I

00:27:05.220 think the

00:27:05.480 conflicts are so

00:27:06.260 rife here.

00:27:07.220 Both prosecutors,

00:27:08.240 Colangelo and

00:27:08.920 Bragg, made

00:27:09.860 political

00:27:10.240 contributions to

00:27:11.080 Democrats,

00:27:11.580 including Biden.

00:27:12.900 This case now

00:27:14.320 has become so

00:27:15.280 out of control

00:27:16.220 that rather than

00:27:17.420 dealing with a

00:27:17.980 central question

00:27:18.680 here, the judge

00:27:19.580 is playing party

00:27:21.480 to this death

00:27:23.080 by a thousand

00:27:23.740 cuts on

00:27:24.520 completely irrelevant

00:27:25.840 issues aimed at

00:27:27.400 going after

00:27:28.080 reputational

00:27:28.860 matters that have

00:27:30.100 nothing to do

00:27:30.820 with the core of

00:27:31.480 the case here.

00:27:32.180 This is a joke

00:27:33.100 and Democrats

00:27:33.900 and civil

00:27:35.080 libertarians should

00:27:35.880 be saying this

00:27:36.580 case is a joke

00:27:37.380 and this is

00:27:38.180 exactly the kind

00:27:39.120 of thing that

00:27:39.600 Republicans will

00:27:40.320 do to Democrats

00:27:41.000 when they get

00:27:41.520 into office and

00:27:42.700 this is why,

00:27:43.760 and it will be

00:27:44.220 no one's fault

00:27:44.820 but the Democrats

00:27:45.520 for not having

00:27:46.160 objected to it

00:27:46.960 when the shoe

00:27:47.660 was on the

00:27:48.020 other foot. 0.98

00:27:48.980 Here is Judge

00:27:50.300 Shira Scheinlin,

00:27:52.280 no relation to

00:27:53.040 Judge Judy.

00:27:54.100 She was appointed

00:27:54.640 to the federal

00:27:55.160 bench by Bill

00:27:55.960 Clinton saying

00:27:57.200 much the same.

00:27:58.260 Listen to her

00:27:58.640 analysis.

00:27:59.180 I think this is

00:27:59.600 from a CNN

00:28:00.260 clip,

00:28:00.740 Sot 10.

00:28:02.640 The material

00:28:03.480 that came in

00:28:04.160 was not relevant

00:28:05.020 to this criminal

00:28:06.120 case at all

00:28:07.020 and I think it

00:28:08.160 shows that she

00:28:09.040 was trying to

00:28:09.740 get Trump.

00:28:10.700 I actually thought

00:28:11.180 there was a

00:28:11.540 motive there.

00:28:12.040 She said she

00:28:12.460 hates him.

00:28:13.080 She said she'd

00:28:13.560 like to see him

00:28:14.020 in prison.

00:28:14.640 I think she

00:28:15.140 was purposely

00:28:15.860 throwing out

00:28:16.560 this stuff to

00:28:17.520 make sure the

00:28:18.080 jurors were

00:28:19.000 prejudiced,

00:28:19.540 particularly the

00:28:20.080 women jurors,

00:28:20.700 but probably half

00:28:21.440 of the men

00:28:21.840 too,

00:28:22.380 were really

00:28:22.840 put off.

00:28:24.380 That's the

00:28:24.940 big question,

00:28:25.500 Phil.

00:28:25.660 Did she succeed?

00:28:26.580 Because she

00:28:27.400 was,

00:28:27.920 the judge

00:28:28.420 pointed out

00:28:29.080 a difficult

00:28:30.020 witness.

00:28:30.920 The reporting

00:28:32.260 of many

00:28:33.560 journalists who

00:28:34.100 were in the

00:28:34.360 courtroom was

00:28:35.440 that she was

00:28:36.140 squeezing these

00:28:36.800 things in.

00:28:37.460 She would

00:28:37.700 speak fast

00:28:38.680 on direct

00:28:39.620 and would

00:28:40.320 slip in

00:28:41.060 new information

00:28:42.140 about Donald

00:28:43.180 Trump,

00:28:43.640 like the

00:28:44.240 no condom

00:28:44.860 and things

00:28:45.180 like that

00:28:45.700 before the

00:28:46.720 defense could

00:28:47.140 even get on

00:28:47.900 its feet to

00:28:48.560 object and

00:28:49.900 was trying to

00:28:50.780 joke with the

00:28:51.500 jury.

00:28:52.480 The journalists

00:28:53.560 were reporting

00:28:54.120 most of them

00:28:55.040 didn't land.

00:28:55.760 The jurors did

00:28:56.260 not smile or

00:28:56.960 laugh in response

00:28:57.680 to her attempts

00:28:58.380 at humor.

00:28:59.680 So it sounded

00:29:01.040 to me like she

00:29:01.700 was not a very

00:29:02.460 effective witness.

00:29:03.860 However,

00:29:04.640 she managed to

00:29:05.580 get those things

00:29:06.120 in and they

00:29:06.980 have a way of

00:29:07.400 lingering.

00:29:07.680 Yeah.

00:29:09.620 Well,

00:29:10.020 this is also

00:29:10.700 New York and

00:29:11.720 if the jurors

00:29:12.600 are predisposed

00:29:13.600 to hate

00:29:13.980 Donald Trump

00:29:14.600 as well,

00:29:15.140 I mean,

00:29:15.360 the man won

00:29:16.160 only I think

00:29:17.400 12% of the

00:29:18.400 vote there

00:29:19.960 the last

00:29:20.460 election and

00:29:20.960 that was

00:29:21.240 before everybody

00:29:22.120 fled New York

00:29:23.020 to go to

00:29:23.660 free states

00:29:24.540 like Florida

00:29:25.160 and elsewhere.

00:29:26.240 So who knows

00:29:26.820 what the

00:29:27.140 demographics are

00:29:28.000 now,

00:29:28.520 but if the

00:29:29.400 majority of

00:29:30.020 the people

00:29:30.300 on that jury

00:29:30.900 are predisposed

00:29:31.720 to hate

00:29:32.240 Donald Trump,

00:29:33.460 then everything

00:29:34.460 that we are

00:29:35.280 saying here

00:29:36.120 about Stormy

00:29:37.020 Daniels and

00:29:37.540 her lack of

00:29:38.140 credibility

00:29:38.600 and the lack

00:29:39.200 of relevance

00:29:39.600 may not even

00:29:40.460 matter because

00:29:41.500 the deck is

00:29:42.340 stacked against

00:29:43.140 Donald Trump.

00:29:44.340 Normally,

00:29:44.880 if this was

00:29:45.500 someplace even

00:29:46.400 maybe in

00:29:46.980 Fulton County,

00:29:47.700 Georgia of

00:29:48.160 all places,

00:29:48.860 a jury,

00:29:49.740 if the jury

00:29:50.300 hears this

00:29:51.140 kind of

00:29:51.500 testimony,

00:29:52.080 maybe they

00:29:52.520 ignore the

00:29:53.080 witness,

00:29:53.780 maybe they

00:29:54.220 even tend

00:29:55.380 to side

00:29:56.480 with the

00:29:56.840 defense because

00:29:57.500 the prosecution

00:29:58.200 is bringing

00:29:58.980 an irrelevant

00:29:59.820 witness and

00:30:00.520 wasting their

00:30:01.380 time.

00:30:02.000 But if the

00:30:02.640 deck is stacked

00:30:03.520 against him

00:30:04.200 in New York,

00:30:05.540 in Manhattan,

00:30:06.460 then I just

00:30:07.760 can't help

00:30:08.460 but be

00:30:08.880 concerned that

00:30:09.900 despite the

00:30:11.300 legal flaws

00:30:12.200 with this

00:30:12.820 testimony and

00:30:13.540 despite the

00:30:14.140 fact that the

00:30:14.720 judge should

00:30:15.240 have granted

00:30:15.540 a mistrial

00:30:16.160 and despite

00:30:16.860 the fact that

00:30:17.500 it's cumulative

00:30:18.680 and irrelevant,

00:30:19.600 all these things

00:30:20.400 don't matter,

00:30:21.320 I'm concerned

00:30:22.020 that a jury

00:30:22.700 is also going

00:30:24.200 to be out

00:30:24.600 to get Trump

00:30:25.480 just like

00:30:26.040 Stormy Daniels

00:30:26.860 is out to

00:30:27.340 get Trump,

00:30:27.940 just like

00:30:28.320 Alvin Bragg

00:30:29.120 is out to

00:30:29.840 get Trump,

00:30:30.320 and just like

00:30:30.800 speaking of

00:30:31.240 Colangelo,

00:30:32.200 leaves a lofty

00:30:33.860 perch at

00:30:34.340 Biden's

00:30:34.820 Department

00:30:35.220 of Justice

00:30:35.760 takes an

00:30:36.540 apparent

00:30:36.880 demotion to

00:30:37.760 come to

00:30:38.180 Manhattan

00:30:38.580 to get

00:30:39.460 Trump.

00:30:40.000 If everybody

00:30:40.860 is in on

00:30:41.800 the get

00:30:42.220 Trump game

00:30:42.960 plan,

00:30:43.300 including the

00:30:43.920 jury,

00:30:44.700 then none

00:30:45.200 of the

00:30:45.540 points that

00:30:46.100 we are

00:30:46.400 making here

00:30:46.940 today might

00:30:48.080 matter until

00:30:49.460 it is perhaps

00:30:50.860 a court of

00:30:51.340 appeal,

00:30:51.760 and that's my

00:30:52.380 real concern.

00:30:53.240 Yeah,

00:30:53.440 and that's not

00:30:53.900 going to happen

00:30:54.200 until after the

00:30:54.840 election.

00:30:56.080 You're not

00:30:56.800 wrong about

00:30:57.620 any of that,

00:30:58.080 but I will

00:30:58.400 say it's

00:30:59.500 this woman

00:31:00.620 now trying to

00:31:01.240 spin this

00:31:01.800 into a

00:31:02.280 Me Too

00:31:02.680 situation,

00:31:03.420 both with

00:31:04.740 the testimony

00:31:05.240 on the

00:31:05.600 stand on

00:31:06.140 Tuesday and

00:31:06.880 what she

00:31:07.200 said to

00:31:07.540 The View

00:31:07.960 about the

00:31:08.780 power imbalance

00:31:09.580 is really

00:31:10.160 galling,

00:31:11.160 okay,

00:31:11.560 because that

00:31:13.160 applies in

00:31:14.160 the workplace,

00:31:15.520 Stormy.

00:31:16.280 You don't get

00:31:17.120 to suggest

00:31:17.760 you're a

00:31:18.180 Me Too

00:31:18.600 victim just

00:31:19.780 because you

00:31:20.700 had sex

00:31:21.440 with a man

00:31:22.400 who has

00:31:23.120 more money

00:31:23.760 than you.

00:31:24.540 That's not

00:31:25.240 what Me Too

00:31:26.260 was about.

00:31:27.460 It was about

00:31:28.060 extracting

00:31:28.880 sexual favors

00:31:30.340 while threatening

00:31:31.560 one's position

00:31:32.720 of employment.

00:31:34.200 At best,

00:31:34.860 what she's

00:31:35.180 alleging is

00:31:35.780 that Trump

00:31:36.260 said,

00:31:36.620 I might be

00:31:37.020 able to get

00:31:37.480 you on

00:31:37.860 Celebrity

00:31:38.380 Apprentice,

00:31:39.520 and she's

00:31:40.660 the one

00:31:41.020 trying to

00:31:41.420 exploit her 0.98

00:31:42.000 ability to

00:31:42.500 give him

00:31:42.700 sex so she 0.97

00:31:43.780 could get

00:31:44.060 the role.

00:31:44.920 All right?

00:31:45.160 She never

00:31:45.600 said it

00:31:46.360 wasn't

00:31:46.620 consensual,

00:31:47.300 that she

00:31:47.560 didn't do

00:31:48.020 it willingly.

00:31:49.040 And this

00:31:49.380 is just a

00:31:49.860 bastardization

00:31:50.720 of what the

00:31:51.760 Me Too

00:31:52.040 movement at

00:31:52.900 its core

00:31:53.360 was.

00:31:54.480 It was

00:31:54.900 bastardized by

00:31:55.520 many people,

00:31:56.220 but the core

00:31:56.640 of the movement

00:31:57.100 was women 1.00

00:31:58.260 trying to get

00:31:59.080 ahead at the

00:31:59.560 office based on

00:32:00.300 their merit,

00:32:00.800 should not have

00:32:01.180 to sleep with

00:32:01.740 their boss or

00:32:02.320 give sexual 0.59

00:32:02.820 favors to a

00:32:03.600 superior at

00:32:04.380 the workplace

00:32:05.220 in order to

00:32:06.700 get there.

00:32:07.360 That's not

00:32:08.580 what happened.

00:32:09.720 It's infuriating

00:32:10.540 to watch her

00:32:11.080 try to glom

00:32:12.040 on Julian.

00:32:13.240 And by the

00:32:13.880 way, the

00:32:14.720 leftist reaction

00:32:15.580 to her,

00:32:16.600 nobody's pointing

00:32:17.180 that out,

00:32:17.960 right?

00:32:18.120 Nobody will

00:32:18.520 speak up for

00:32:19.040 what the core

00:32:19.800 of the women's

00:32:20.540 rights issue

00:32:21.020 was.

00:32:21.500 They'd love to

00:32:22.120 have her on 1.00

00:32:22.600 board because

00:32:23.280 it makes

00:32:23.560 Trump look

00:32:24.040 bad.

00:32:24.820 And I'll

00:32:24.980 just give you

00:32:25.280 a sampling.

00:32:25.700 It's not on

00:32:26.040 Me Too,

00:32:26.500 but here's a

00:32:26.960 little bit of

00:32:27.660 Maddow and

00:32:29.180 Nicole Wallace

00:32:29.820 talking about

00:32:31.180 their observations

00:32:31.980 in the wake

00:32:32.380 of Stormy.

00:32:33.000 Listen.

00:32:35.120 She said

00:32:35.780 today, I have

00:32:36.320 no shame

00:32:36.660 talking about

00:32:37.240 her career

00:32:38.840 choices.

00:32:39.500 And there's

00:32:40.500 no reason she 0.94

00:32:41.000 should.

00:32:41.320 She's got

00:32:42.100 self-determination.

00:32:42.960 She has given

00:32:43.820 herself the

00:32:44.280 career that she

00:32:44.760 wants.

00:32:45.260 But we can

00:32:46.300 have shame.

00:32:47.740 We can have

00:32:48.700 shame about

00:32:49.140 our political

00:32:49.840 choices as a

00:32:50.640 country in terms

00:32:51.220 of who we are

00:32:51.740 elevating as

00:32:52.520 America's face 0.61

00:32:53.340 to the world.

00:32:54.380 And today is

00:32:55.840 just, I mean,

00:32:57.140 none of us will

00:32:57.580 ever get this

00:32:58.040 taste out of

00:32:58.460 our mouth.

00:32:59.720 Wow.

00:33:00.620 Because I guess

00:33:01.740 all the Democrats

00:33:02.360 are pitch perfect

00:33:03.400 when it comes to

00:33:04.000 their sex lives 0.55

00:33:04.640 in office.

00:33:08.260 Yeah, well, I

00:33:09.060 think in addition

00:33:09.560 to the point

00:33:10.120 that you just

00:33:10.680 made, certainly

00:33:11.740 about the legal

00:33:13.020 requirements of

00:33:13.680 workplace harassment,

00:33:14.720 which I think is

00:33:15.340 accurate, the, you

00:33:19.020 know, the role of

00:33:19.580 the news media

00:33:20.160 here is to be

00:33:21.560 getting issues

00:33:22.600 like that, the

00:33:23.280 way you just

00:33:23.780 stated, be

00:33:24.400 getting it

00:33:24.820 accurate and to

00:33:26.600 and to be

00:33:27.460 correcting things

00:33:28.260 that are false.

00:33:29.460 The fact that

00:33:30.520 they don't do it

00:33:31.360 along the lines

00:33:32.320 of what you

00:33:32.780 just said, and

00:33:34.140 they are in fact

00:33:34.900 treating this case

00:33:35.820 as a serious

00:33:36.440 case, I think

00:33:37.740 tells you about

00:33:38.520 the corruption

00:33:39.100 of a lot of

00:33:40.360 mainstream media

00:33:41.100 today.

00:33:42.020 They are not

00:33:42.800 looking at the

00:33:43.380 truth.

00:33:43.720 They are not

00:33:44.100 looking at getting

00:33:44.680 the facts.

00:33:45.220 If you look at

00:33:45.780 the number of

00:33:46.520 people and news

00:33:48.180 organizations that

00:33:49.400 have saved the

00:33:51.180 ratings, that have

00:33:52.460 built their careers,

00:33:53.680 that have otherwise

00:33:54.340 benefited personally

00:33:55.540 from going after

00:33:56.940 Trump since

00:33:57.640 2016, it's

00:34:00.120 just staggering.

00:34:01.520 I mean, you

00:34:02.000 know, the whole

00:34:02.720 Russiagate issue

00:34:04.100 was sort of

00:34:04.680 built on, I

00:34:05.360 mean, it saved,

00:34:06.680 you know, it may

00:34:07.160 have saved the

00:34:07.800 ratings for CNN

00:34:08.600 and MSNBC, and

00:34:10.260 it built a lot of

00:34:11.180 careers over there,

00:34:12.020 and it built a lot

00:34:12.640 of careers in

00:34:13.240 newsrooms, but it

00:34:14.600 turned out to be

00:34:15.460 not really factually

00:34:16.540 based, right?

00:34:17.200 But, you know,

00:34:18.180 when we found out

00:34:20.740 that there wasn't

00:34:21.360 strong evidence that

00:34:22.420 Trump was a Russian 0.96

00:34:23.280 mole, you didn't

00:34:24.300 hear a lot of the

00:34:24.980 people that spent

00:34:25.660 three, four, five

00:34:26.500 years building their

00:34:27.300 careers saying, you

00:34:27.860 know, we were

00:34:28.280 wrong.

00:34:28.960 I mean, you can

00:34:29.440 make the same kind

00:34:30.240 of analogies about

00:34:31.300 the Wuhan lab, and

00:34:33.340 you can go on down

00:34:35.320 the line about the

00:34:36.680 news media making

00:34:37.660 these, their careers,

00:34:39.900 reporters, news

00:34:41.420 people who are

00:34:42.100 supposed to be

00:34:43.340 honoring the

00:34:43.880 profession by going

00:34:44.780 after the truth,

00:34:45.920 what they've become

00:34:46.700 is opinion

00:34:48.160 activists, and

00:34:49.780 sort of all that

00:34:50.820 matters is that

00:34:51.680 they can get a

00:34:52.900 viewership that

00:34:53.700 gets angry, that

00:34:54.540 gets upset, that

00:34:56.080 can throw contempt

00:34:58.080 towards the other

00:34:58.780 side, and that's

00:34:59.340 how they build

00:34:59.800 their careers, and

00:35:01.020 when they make

00:35:01.520 that leap to

00:35:02.280 opinion activism,

00:35:03.720 it's when you

00:35:05.120 stop thinking

00:35:05.940 critically along the

00:35:07.020 lines of the

00:35:07.720 rift that you just

00:35:08.340 made, which I

00:35:08.960 think was, you

00:35:09.900 know, was spot on,

00:35:11.080 or looking at

00:35:11.860 really is this case

00:35:12.920 being handled in a

00:35:13.760 fair way, so the

00:35:14.540 media is going

00:35:15.380 along with this

00:35:16.300 charade.

00:35:17.020 They're complicit.

00:35:17.580 Because it's good

00:35:18.160 for them personally,

00:35:19.060 it's good for their

00:35:19.700 careers.

00:35:20.040 Well, they're

00:35:20.820 more than

00:35:21.180 complicit.

00:35:22.220 They are playing

00:35:23.160 along with it

00:35:23.980 because it's good

00:35:24.780 for them personally.

00:35:25.840 They think it

00:35:26.440 builds their

00:35:26.960 followers, their

00:35:28.180 ratings, their

00:35:29.400 social media

00:35:30.380 brand, and this

00:35:32.700 is a corruption of

00:35:33.600 the system that

00:35:34.280 more people need

00:35:35.020 to be calling

00:35:35.540 out.

00:35:35.960 All right, and

00:35:36.320 not for nothing,

00:35:37.220 but I completely

00:35:38.380 disagree with

00:35:39.240 Rachel Maddow.

00:35:39.960 Stormy Daniels

00:35:40.740 should have some

00:35:41.700 shame around being

00:35:43.320 a porn star.

00:35:44.640 That's not something

00:35:45.500 to be proud of,

00:35:46.340 and I'm not afraid

00:35:47.140 to say that.

00:35:47.920 She's got

00:35:48.340 self-determination.

00:35:49.320 Yes, she's

00:35:49.800 self-determined to

00:35:50.960 be a professional

00:35:51.960 hooker.

00:35:52.800 That's what you

00:35:53.480 are.

00:35:53.840 You're getting

00:35:54.420 paid to have

00:35:55.160 sex on camera. 0.72

00:35:56.280 That's what being

00:35:56.940 a porn star is.

00:35:57.900 You take something

00:35:58.640 that's supposed to

00:35:59.220 be absolutely

00:35:59.900 lovely and special

00:36:01.400 and awesome between

00:36:02.700 two loving people,

00:36:04.140 ideally to procreate

00:36:05.300 or be in a marriage

00:36:06.860 or a relationship in

00:36:07.820 which that will

00:36:08.320 happen, and you

00:36:09.380 bastardize it so

00:36:10.360 that random

00:36:10.900 strangers can get

00:36:11.680 off in their

00:36:12.360 basements.

00:36:12.900 There's nothing

00:36:13.500 valorous about it.

00:36:14.820 I would have

00:36:15.320 shame, too, if I

00:36:16.140 were Stormy

00:36:16.560 Daniels.

00:36:17.300 Sorry, but we

00:36:17.980 shouldn't be

00:36:18.280 celebrating it,

00:36:19.160 Rachel.

00:36:20.060 Okay, let's

00:36:21.260 move on because

00:36:21.780 there's a lot

00:36:22.260 going on in

00:36:22.760 Trump legal

00:36:23.180 world.

00:36:23.660 And Phil, how

00:36:25.100 about the

00:36:25.820 Georgia appellate

00:36:27.140 court taking up

00:36:28.800 the Fannie 0.98

00:36:29.420 Willis case,

00:36:31.100 suggesting maybe

00:36:32.520 she is going to

00:36:33.300 get DQ'd from

00:36:34.120 this thing after

00:36:34.720 all?

00:36:35.240 Tell us the

00:36:36.040 headlines here.

00:36:37.800 Yeah, so today

00:36:38.880 I got a text

00:36:40.360 message right when

00:36:41.280 the news was

00:36:41.940 breaking, and so

00:36:42.820 I immediately took

00:36:43.680 to X and posted

00:36:45.100 it out there, and

00:36:46.660 you know, it's

00:36:47.820 as I predicted,

00:36:48.880 the Court of

00:36:49.340 Appeals, because

00:36:50.520 this issue of

00:36:52.000 Fannie Willis and

00:36:53.560 whether she has a

00:36:54.400 conflict of interest

00:36:55.300 and how she has

00:36:56.400 behaved, quite

00:36:58.260 frankly, in an

00:36:59.760 irresponsible way in

00:37:01.040 bringing this case,

00:37:02.280 because it's such an

00:37:03.280 important issue, the

00:37:04.960 trial judge took the

00:37:06.800 unusual step of

00:37:07.920 allowing the parties

00:37:08.860 to take his order

00:37:10.680 up on appeal with,

00:37:12.820 you know, prior to the

00:37:13.700 trial.

00:37:14.200 It's an interlocutory

00:37:15.460 appeal, it's what we

00:37:16.140 call it, it's unusual,

00:37:17.060 but it can happen, but

00:37:18.540 the Court of Appeals

00:37:19.340 also has to agree to

00:37:20.960 hear it, Megan, it's

00:37:22.100 discretionary, and so

00:37:23.300 they had like 45 days

00:37:25.120 and the clock was

00:37:25.840 ticking, I think it

00:37:26.600 was going to be

00:37:26.980 Monday.

00:37:28.100 Today, they said,

00:37:29.120 yes, we are going to

00:37:30.200 agree to hear the

00:37:31.060 appeal, and so now we

00:37:32.200 move on to the next

00:37:33.260 phase.

00:37:34.400 There's going to have

00:37:35.360 to be briefing by the

00:37:36.540 parties and, of course,

00:37:37.360 oral argument in a

00:37:38.720 couple of months, and

00:37:39.460 it's going to be heard

00:37:40.220 by a panel of three

00:37:42.100 judges, and the

00:37:43.680 it's going to take,

00:37:45.020 of course, a majority

00:37:45.740 of that, so two

00:37:46.620 judges on the panel

00:37:47.620 of three are going to

00:37:49.120 have to decide with

00:37:50.260 the defense in order

00:37:51.460 to disqualify Fonnie

00:37:53.400 Willis, but that's not

00:37:54.380 all.

00:37:54.820 They're asking that the

00:37:55.780 case be dismissed in

00:37:57.760 addition to her being 0.98

00:37:59.420 disqualified.

00:38:00.420 What we don't know is

00:38:01.840 who we're going to get

00:38:03.040 on the panel, who are

00:38:04.220 the three judges, we

00:38:05.080 just don't know that

00:38:06.040 right now, but if

00:38:07.420 there's two judges

00:38:08.260 that at a minimum

00:38:09.160 believe that she

00:38:10.040 should be disqualified,

00:38:11.300 the case is going to

00:38:12.780 be effectively over

00:38:13.920 because there's no

00:38:14.900 other prosecutor in

00:38:16.160 their right mind that

00:38:16.960 would want it, because

00:38:17.760 Megan, the odor of

00:38:19.820 mendacity will remain

00:38:21.460 in the case even if

00:38:23.320 another prosecutor gets

00:38:24.580 on it, and it's

00:38:25.600 irreparable.

00:38:26.420 They would have to

00:38:26.920 start over from

00:38:27.700 scratch, and it's

00:38:28.940 just the kind of thing

00:38:29.800 that's too big of an

00:38:31.040 ask for another

00:38:31.820 prosecutor.

00:38:32.360 Phil, when do we

00:38:32.860 find out which panel

00:38:35.340 they pulled to hear

00:38:36.480 this appeal?

00:38:36.940 Well, we don't know

00:38:40.060 yet.

00:38:40.260 It's going to have to

00:38:40.920 be assigned to a

00:38:42.480 panel, and of course

00:38:44.260 these things rotate,

00:38:45.480 right?

00:38:46.260 It's not the same

00:38:47.460 panel, I don't believe,

00:38:48.740 that agreed to hear

00:38:49.800 it.

00:38:49.980 It's going to be a

00:38:50.900 second panel, so we're

00:38:52.760 going to have, at this

00:38:53.960 point, at least six

00:38:55.040 judges involved in the

00:38:56.360 decision, the combined

00:38:57.720 decision, to take the

00:38:59.280 case and then what to

00:39:00.240 do with it, so we don't

00:39:01.640 yet know how it's going

00:39:02.680 to be assigned, but

00:39:03.520 that's going to be

00:39:04.100 something, obviously,

00:39:04.900 we're going to have to

00:39:05.320 watch very closely.

00:39:07.020 Phil, does the case

00:39:07.960 keep moving in the

00:39:08.740 meantime while they

00:39:09.420 take this up on

00:39:10.240 appeal?

00:39:10.720 Does Fannie Willis get 0.94

00:39:11.700 to go forward at the

00:39:12.420 trial level?

00:39:14.560 Until now, I'm of the

00:39:15.880 belief that it does not

00:39:16.980 because once the case

00:39:18.300 goes up on appeal, and

00:39:19.560 up until today, it was

00:39:21.260 not officially on

00:39:22.400 appeal.

00:39:22.960 Now it's officially on

00:39:24.380 appeal, and so I think

00:39:26.360 maybe the argument was

00:39:27.540 that some of the other

00:39:28.620 business of the court,

00:39:29.840 trial court, could

00:39:30.600 continue.

00:39:31.320 I am of the belief

00:39:32.400 that now that the case

00:39:33.520 is officially in the

00:39:34.640 court of appeals, that

00:39:35.420 the trial judges,

00:39:36.800 divested of

00:39:37.580 jurisdiction to take

00:39:38.560 any action, and I

00:39:39.700 think even if it's

00:39:41.580 unwise because you

00:39:42.740 don't want to do a

00:39:44.040 whole lot of work

00:39:44.980 preparing the case,

00:39:46.700 gearing it up for

00:39:47.340 trial, if it turns out

00:39:48.840 the prosecutor who's

00:39:49.940 representing the state

00:39:50.820 at these pre-trial

00:39:51.600 matters is not

00:39:52.780 supposed to be there,

00:39:53.740 so I think that is a

00:39:55.120 practical matter.

00:39:56.860 That is just a true

00:39:58.240 bombshell, Julian.

00:39:59.200 I don't know how

00:39:59.660 closely you follow this,

00:40:00.620 but Phil and we were

00:40:02.680 on this case from the

00:40:05.100 beginning in a very

00:40:05.960 detailed way, and this

00:40:07.340 is huge.

00:40:08.000 I mean, we talked

00:40:08.960 about the inside

00:40:09.520 straight.

00:40:10.820 Georgia very well

00:40:12.780 could go away.

00:40:13.480 If Fannie Willis gets 0.87

00:40:14.580 disqualified, it's done,

00:40:16.500 and this one needs to go

00:40:17.920 away for Trump because

00:40:18.820 he can't on the two

00:40:19.760 federal cases.

00:40:20.800 He can pull the

00:40:21.280 prosecutor off of that,

00:40:22.100 but he can't pull them

00:40:22.900 off of New York and

00:40:24.180 Georgia.

00:40:24.740 New York's going to be

00:40:25.580 resolved before November.

00:40:27.060 Then there's Georgia

00:40:27.740 lingering.

00:40:28.180 Yeah.

00:40:30.620 Well, I think this

00:40:31.600 case will go away.

00:40:32.600 I mean, look, I was

00:40:33.520 critical of what Donald

00:40:34.600 Trump did with

00:40:35.220 Rosenberger in Georgia.

00:40:37.020 I don't know that it

00:40:38.300 crossed the line into

00:40:39.040 criminal behavior.

00:40:39.840 I have my concerns

00:40:40.720 about that.

00:40:41.160 I've written about that.

00:40:42.480 The use of the

00:40:43.280 racketeering laws is

00:40:44.500 almost unprecedented in

00:40:46.000 a circumstance like

00:40:46.860 this.

00:40:47.580 And remember, Fannie 0.60

00:40:48.280 Willis herself was

00:40:49.280 conflicted, just the way

00:40:50.220 Bragg was conflicted and

00:40:51.380 Letitia James were

00:40:52.180 conflicted.

00:40:52.720 She held a fundraiser for

00:40:54.260 one of the opponents of

00:40:55.700 the target of the

00:40:56.460 initial investigation.

00:40:57.920 So she was deeply

00:40:59.040 conflicted, and she's

00:41:00.280 been very clear about

00:41:01.180 her dislike of Donald

00:41:02.240 Trump.

00:41:02.800 These conflicts with

00:41:03.700 these prosecutors are a

00:41:04.860 big deal.

00:41:05.800 And then when it crosses

00:41:07.360 over into what she was

00:41:09.180 accused of, which was

00:41:10.040 basically a kickback

00:41:11.180 scheme in which she 1.00

00:41:12.680 hired an unqualified

00:41:13.840 boyfriend, spent over

00:41:15.640 half a million dollars,

00:41:17.100 sent him over a hundred

00:41:17.900 and a half million

00:41:19.320 dollars.

00:41:20.240 He was then kicking that

00:41:21.340 money back to her.

00:41:22.620 She claimed she paid it

00:41:23.480 back, but she's got no 1.00

00:41:24.340 records.

00:41:24.880 It was all in cash.

00:41:26.060 I mean, sort of all of

00:41:27.040 that stuff is just hard

00:41:28.460 to swallow.

00:41:29.760 So I think not only

00:41:31.140 will, on appeal, is

00:41:32.800 there likely to be a

00:41:34.620 finding of a conflict of

00:41:35.780 interest, I think she's

00:41:36.860 got to be careful about

00:41:38.120 potential perjury charges

00:41:39.840 here.

00:41:40.500 But this is another case

00:41:42.020 where it's sort of, you

00:41:43.560 know, this has become, I

00:41:44.600 sort of sometimes wish Tom

00:41:45.820 Wolf were still alive

00:41:46.780 because this is such great

00:41:47.980 material for sort of a

00:41:50.340 discussion about this

00:41:51.400 charade that a lot of this

00:41:54.160 lawfare has become.

00:41:55.440 I mean, if Donald Trump

00:41:56.580 did something wrong, there

00:41:58.120 should be consequences

00:41:58.920 clearly.

00:41:59.400 But the way that the left

00:42:00.380 has behaved, bringing

00:42:01.900 these cases, waiting

00:42:03.060 eight years in the case

00:42:05.100 of the New York case we

00:42:06.020 were just discussing,

00:42:06.920 waiting four years in the

00:42:08.020 case of the election

00:42:08.820 interference just before

00:42:09.940 the election, it's

00:42:11.080 outrageous to be, this is

00:42:12.060 election interference.

00:42:12.960 What's happening is

00:42:14.100 bringing these cases, and

00:42:15.140 I'm not a Donald Trump

00:42:15.920 supporter.

00:42:16.620 I voted for Hillary in 0.91

00:42:18.020 16, I voted for Biden

00:42:19.340 in 20, I didn't vote for

00:42:21.600 Donald Trump at all.

00:42:22.420 But waiting to bring

00:42:23.460 these cases until the eve of

00:42:25.420 election is abuse of

00:42:27.040 authority.

00:42:28.060 And at some point, there

00:42:29.100 needs to be a reckoning

00:42:30.000 here because this is

00:42:31.120 exactly the kind of thing

00:42:32.480 that Republicans are going

00:42:33.900 to do to Democrats when

00:42:35.300 they get into power.

00:42:36.580 And Democrats will have

00:42:37.520 no one to blame but

00:42:38.480 themselves for not

00:42:39.540 speaking up and for

00:42:40.760 countenancing the abuse

00:42:42.380 of the legal system the

00:42:43.420 way it's being abused in

00:42:44.340 these cases.

00:42:44.980 So, so true.

00:42:46.560 Phil, I've been dying to

00:42:47.620 ask you about Nathan

00:42:48.400 Wade's interview on ABC.

00:42:50.700 We ran this soundbite the

00:42:51.740 other day on the show, but

00:42:52.680 your reaction, I'd really

00:42:53.980 love.

00:42:54.360 Can we run SOT 18?

00:42:58.380 So you didn't realize when

00:42:59.660 you took the case, your

00:43:00.820 life was really going to be

00:43:01.760 under a microscope.

00:43:02.920 I did not realize that my

00:43:05.000 life would be in danger.

00:43:07.620 The microscope, I don't have

00:43:09.060 a problem with.

00:43:10.940 The truth is, you know, if

00:43:13.000 the worst that you could

00:43:14.340 find was the fact that I

00:43:17.000 had a relationship with

00:43:19.600 someone or that I happened

00:43:23.560 to be going through a

00:43:24.340 divorce, that's okay.

00:43:26.500 That's that.

00:43:27.200 That's okay.

00:43:27.800 I have nothing to hide.

00:43:30.780 That's the worst that you

00:43:31.740 could find.

00:43:32.240 That's what he that's how he

00:43:33.160 styles what happened to him.

00:43:34.780 Phil, that's you know that

00:43:35.780 they found out I was in a

00:43:36.900 relationship and got a

00:43:38.460 divorce.

00:43:41.140 Well, look, when you're in a

00:43:43.200 hole, the first thing you have

00:43:44.860 to do is stop digging, and I

00:43:47.160 wonder if the judges on the

00:43:48.920 Court of Appeals were

00:43:49.840 watching this news this week

00:43:51.600 because that was just a

00:43:52.440 couple of days ago, right?

00:43:53.680 And just today we get the

00:43:55.080 news that, of course, the

00:43:56.400 disqualification issue is

00:43:57.840 going to be before the Court

00:43:59.420 of Appeals.

00:44:00.820 His testimony, as I recall it,

00:44:02.940 his and hers, by the way, from

00:44:04.380 the disqualification hearing,

00:44:05.740 was that they were no longer

00:44:07.540 a romantic item before the

00:44:10.560 Trump indictment, which I

00:44:11.780 think was the first week of

00:44:13.360 August of 2023.

00:44:15.540 In that interview, he said

00:44:17.380 that they ended their

00:44:18.640 relationship towards the end

00:44:20.260 of 2023.

00:44:21.720 Well, which one was it?

00:44:22.900 Okay.

00:44:23.400 Were you were you telling the

00:44:24.780 truth on ABC or were you

00:44:26.260 telling the truth under oath

00:44:28.160 in court or maybe neither one?

00:44:29.740 We just don't know because

00:44:30.900 you can't square what he's

00:44:32.960 saying with to ABC with what

00:44:34.720 was said in court.

00:44:36.420 So it's just another example.

00:44:38.700 And Phil, we know he

00:44:40.260 perjured himself.

00:44:41.520 We know he perjured.

00:44:42.400 I'm Nathan Wade.

00:44:44.280 You can come sue me.

00:44:45.220 You lied under oath in your

00:44:47.760 divorce proceedings.

00:44:49.020 Sue me if I'm not saying the

00:44:50.980 right thing.

00:44:51.800 Go ahead.

00:44:52.420 Bring it.

00:44:53.060 Sue me if that's not true.

00:44:54.600 You lied.

00:44:55.380 You lied under oath in your

00:44:56.500 divorce proceedings.

00:44:57.420 And I believe you lied in

00:44:59.960 your proceeding with Fannie 0.65

00:45:00.980 Willis.

00:45:01.340 But now he's trying to forget

00:45:02.740 like, oh, I just had a

00:45:04.960 divorce, Phil.

00:45:05.840 That's the worst they could

00:45:06.900 find on me.

00:45:07.620 Well, that's not the worst

00:45:10.600 they can find.

00:45:11.260 No, the worst they found on

00:45:12.380 him was that he was arguably

00:45:14.300 giving kickbacks after this

00:45:15.800 no bid contract that his

00:45:17.200 girlfriend gave him to

00:45:18.200 prosecute a case that he had

00:45:19.820 no business being on.

00:45:20.900 That's the worst thing.

00:45:22.180 But on top of all of that,

00:45:23.840 and it's not the fact that

00:45:24.880 they were sleeping together

00:45:25.940 that I or anybody really, I

00:45:27.620 think, has a problem with.

00:45:29.020 It's the fact of the money.

00:45:31.300 It's the fact of the not

00:45:33.040 telling the truth to the

00:45:34.400 court.

00:45:34.640 It's the fact of filing

00:45:36.140 what I believe, in my

00:45:37.600 opinion, to be a false

00:45:39.020 document, an affidavit in

00:45:40.520 the court, and what I

00:45:41.660 believe to be false

00:45:43.020 testimony in court.

00:45:44.160 That is turning the justice

00:45:45.900 system on its ear.

00:45:47.120 It's making a mockery of

00:45:48.460 the judicial system.

00:45:50.020 All of these lawfare cases

00:45:51.880 make a mockery of it, and

00:45:53.240 it's embarrassing.

00:45:54.760 It's embarrassing to me as

00:45:55.940 a member of the legal

00:45:56.860 profession.

00:45:57.820 This is not what the court

00:45:59.020 system is supposed to be

00:46:00.240 about.

00:46:00.580 This is not how lawyers are

00:46:02.320 supposed to behave.

00:46:03.340 And it's the kind of thing

00:46:04.800 that makes me just feel,

00:46:06.980 it makes me feel disgusting.

00:46:08.540 I mean, it's just ugly, and

00:46:09.920 it's the kind of-

00:46:10.620 She didn't ask him any of

00:46:11.840 that.

00:46:12.160 No follow-ups by that ABC

00:46:13.400 reporter.

00:46:14.060 She failed.

00:46:15.060 I've got to spend one more

00:46:16.260 question on this, and then

00:46:17.320 we'll move on to the other

00:46:18.240 case.

00:46:19.760 There, Sadow, Steve Sadow,

00:46:22.440 who represents, or Sadow,

00:46:23.880 Trump in the Georgia case,

00:46:26.400 is upset because his big

00:46:30.320 thing in trying to get Fannie

00:46:31.680 disqualified was she made

00:46:33.620 those statements in that

00:46:34.620 church suggesting that the

00:46:37.580 defendants were racists and 0.56

00:46:39.700 that they only went after

00:46:40.500 Nathan Wade because he was

00:46:41.600 black, as opposed to the

00:46:42.960 fact that he was the one

00:46:43.700 schtupping Fannie Willis and

00:46:45.500 doing the kickback scheme.

00:46:47.220 And the judge said, I'm not

00:46:50.440 going to disqualify based on

00:46:51.720 that.

00:46:51.880 I don't like it.

00:46:52.700 I don't like what she said,

00:46:53.780 and you better not do it

00:46:54.860 again, but I'm not going to

00:46:56.160 disqualify.

00:46:56.660 Well, the other day, Fannie

00:46:59.420 Willis goes out back in

00:47:00.460 public, and I'm going to show

00:47:02.100 the soundbite, and you're

00:47:03.420 going to hear this pastor

00:47:04.300 taking aim at Trump.

00:47:05.640 You can't see her in the

00:47:06.620 shot, but it is the case that

00:47:08.780 Fannie Willis was right in 0.59

00:47:10.460 front of him.

00:47:11.720 This was her event.

00:47:12.760 They were together.

00:47:13.960 And here's what this guy said,

00:47:15.580 the Reverend Motley.

00:47:16.760 It occurred to me after

00:47:20.960 watching him just for a

00:47:24.500 short while, Bishop, that

00:47:28.820 all of the, and this is what

00:47:31.100 came to my mind, all of the

00:47:32.700 resources of hell has been

00:47:38.980 made available to this man.

00:47:42.520 And somebody said on

00:47:46.280 yesterday that, I believe it

00:47:48.040 was Reverend Al Sharpton or

00:47:50.960 someone on his show, that

00:47:52.180 there's not a redeeming

00:47:53.740 quality in the man.

00:47:55.320 All right.

00:47:55.960 All right.

00:47:56.980 He is soaked and saturated

00:47:58.720 with evil.

00:48:00.160 Wow.

00:48:01.400 Here's the picture.

00:48:02.320 We'll show it of her sitting

00:48:03.260 right with him.

00:48:04.140 So look, there she is. 1.00

00:48:06.340 She's right there looking up

00:48:07.800 at him like he's her, her

00:48:09.500 apostle.

00:48:10.040 Um, Phil, could this get

00:48:12.640 her in trouble?

00:48:14.600 Yeah, it really should get

00:48:15.840 her in trouble.

00:48:16.720 She, she may not have

00:48:17.700 uttered the words herself,

00:48:18.820 but she stood up right after 1.00

00:48:20.140 that and gave prepared

00:48:21.680 remarks.

00:48:22.140 And you know, what she

00:48:23.100 should have done, Megan,

00:48:24.060 is she shouldn't have said,

00:48:24.840 wait a minute, pastor, I

00:48:26.340 can't be out here publicly

00:48:28.000 talking in a campaign

00:48:29.300 setting about a case that

00:48:31.020 I'm actively prosecuting.

00:48:32.640 It's not right.

00:48:33.560 It's not proper.

00:48:34.360 And she should have told

00:48:35.480 him that ahead of time, but

00:48:37.120 she's not interested in doing 0.89

00:48:38.940 the right thing.

00:48:39.740 She's only interested in

00:48:41.300 elevating herself politically.

00:48:42.740 So she's willing to flout the

00:48:44.560 rules.

00:48:45.040 But the right thing to do is

00:48:46.560 to not go out and publicly

00:48:48.580 talk about cases that you're

00:48:50.200 currently prosecuting.

00:48:51.260 And you damn sure don't say

00:48:53.460 or don't let others say on

00:48:54.760 your behalf that a defendant

00:48:56.380 in the case is evil and has

00:48:58.320 no redeeming qualities.

00:48:59.840 They were there to endorse

00:49:01.420 her.

00:49:01.800 They were there to endure.

00:49:02.740 It was all about her.

00:49:03.980 It's not like some random

00:49:04.900 gathering of them.

00:49:06.000 And she allowed it, Phil.

00:49:07.020 Yeah, and it's worse to me

00:49:11.700 than what was said almost

00:49:13.340 inside the church, because now

00:49:15.300 she's been put on notice.

00:49:16.940 The judge threatened her in his 0.85

00:49:18.260 order with maybe it's time to

00:49:19.780 put a gag order on Fonnie

00:49:21.460 Willis because in his words, she

00:49:24.320 was wading into dangerous

00:49:25.720 waters.

00:49:26.180 Well, she's neck deep in it now. 0.97

00:49:27.840 She is neck deep in dangerous

00:49:29.320 waters.

00:49:29.840 That is forensic misconduct.

00:49:31.800 It is unlawful.

00:49:33.020 Unlawful.

00:49:33.700 It is wrong.

00:49:34.680 And it's the kind of thing that

00:49:35.880 should have gotten her kicked off 1.00

00:49:37.080 the case already.

00:49:38.520 But if that wasn't enough, this

00:49:40.620 should be the straw that breaks

00:49:42.460 the camel's back.

00:49:43.380 That press conference was

00:49:44.960 absolutely egregious and it was

00:49:46.860 wrong.

00:49:47.280 And she needs to be accountable

00:49:48.740 for it.

00:49:49.320 Here's Steve Sadow saying Trump

00:49:51.580 Trump argued Willis engaged in

00:49:53.020 forensic misconduct.

00:49:54.040 The court said don't do it again.

00:49:55.320 So yesterday, Willis had a

00:49:56.360 religious endorser stand right

00:49:57.520 behind her, say to the media, 1.00

00:49:58.960 the president uses the resources of

00:50:00.480 hell and is saturated with evil.

00:50:02.220 Unbelievable.

00:50:03.840 All right.

00:50:04.080 Last, last question.

00:50:05.960 Fannie Willis has been

00:50:07.420 she's been called.

00:50:10.280 I don't know if it was a subpoena

00:50:11.200 or how they reached out to her

00:50:12.700 to testify before the Georgia

00:50:14.520 State Senate special committee

00:50:16.040 investigating whether she

00:50:17.520 misused taxpayer money during

00:50:19.440 her relationship with Nathan

00:50:20.820 Wade.

00:50:21.260 This is the panel that called

00:50:23.080 Ashley Merchant.

00:50:24.280 And she's saying she's not

00:50:27.340 going to go.

00:50:28.000 She was asked about it Monday

00:50:28.840 during the same thing with the

00:50:29.700 faith leaders.

00:50:30.540 Here's what she said in SOT 14.

00:50:32.220 Well, I don't even think they

00:50:34.760 have the authority to subpoena me,

00:50:36.340 but they need to learn the law.

00:50:38.340 Will you appear yes or no?

00:50:41.340 I will not appear to anything

00:50:43.200 that is unlawful.

00:50:44.700 And I have not broken the law

00:50:46.060 in any way.

00:50:47.620 I've said it, you know, I'll say

00:50:48.940 it amongst these leaders.

00:50:49.820 I'm sorry, folks, you're pissed

00:50:51.120 off that everybody gets treated

00:50:52.380 evil.

00:50:52.660 All right.

00:50:53.760 All right.

00:50:54.420 All right.

00:50:54.760 So she's thumbing her nose at them. 0.97

00:50:58.080 What do you think?

00:50:59.380 She could have she would have

00:51:01.920 thrown somebody in jail if they

00:51:03.560 refused to show up for her grand

00:51:05.000 jury, which, by the way, you can

00:51:06.300 make a strong argument was unlawful.

00:51:08.200 That issue is also about to be

00:51:09.800 before the Georgia Court of

00:51:11.920 Appeals because she did not have the 0.96

00:51:13.600 proper referral from the state

00:51:15.000 election board that she needed to

00:51:16.680 prosecute an alleged election crime.

00:51:18.480 But nevertheless, she is setting up

00:51:20.980 a legal challenge to fight the

00:51:22.880 Georgia State Senate, which has a

00:51:24.600 lawful and duly constituted

00:51:27.480 committee that's meeting.

00:51:29.040 The legislature is not even in

00:51:30.520 session, but they're still having

00:51:31.740 meetings because they want to be

00:51:33.200 able to propose legislation next

00:51:35.540 year when the legislature comes back

00:51:37.340 to prevent this kind of thing from

00:51:39.080 happening, to provide more oversight.

00:51:40.960 The committee the other day heard a

00:51:43.080 four hour had a four hour hearing.

00:51:44.900 They heard from the chairman of the

00:51:46.140 county commission that basically they

00:51:47.980 have no oversight whatsoever after

00:51:51.040 they award her money in her budget.

00:51:53.120 They give her the money.

00:51:54.060 She says what it's going to be used

00:51:55.280 for, but they can't stop her from 0.61

00:51:57.120 doing it on whatever she wants.

00:51:58.520 And guess who she had in attendance 0.87

00:52:00.880 as her lawyer, former governor Roy

00:52:03.860 Barnes, the same one who testified in

00:52:06.240 the.

00:52:07.520 So she's got him working now as her

00:52:10.200 lawyer, apparently setting up

00:52:12.440 state Senate to oppose any subpoena.

00:52:15.200 That's perfect.

00:52:16.120 Perfect. OK, let me move on, Julian,

00:52:18.500 because I want to I want to get to the

00:52:19.620 Trump case with you in Florida.

00:52:22.740 So we're not shocked that the Florida

00:52:26.400 case is not going to get tried before

00:52:27.780 November. But I mean, this is just

00:52:29.440 officially a death knell to that

00:52:31.800 happening. Judge Aileen Cannon has,

00:52:33.900 quote, indefinitely postponed the trial.

00:52:36.420 This was so predictable that they got to

00:52:40.960 figure out who, if anyone, the jury, the

00:52:45.040 defense counsel, even Trump at this point,

00:52:47.840 the defendant, can see the classified

00:52:50.840 documents that are the basis for the

00:52:53.340 claim against him.

00:52:55.100 And that requires all sorts of background

00:52:57.580 checks and security clearances is one of

00:52:59.440 everybody involved in arguments and pretrial

00:53:01.480 motions. So she's officially canceled the 0.97

00:53:04.480 May tentative date. They had saying

00:53:06.820 it's postponed indefinitely.

00:53:09.420 And you think what in response to that?

00:53:14.560 Well, there's a concept known as jumping the

00:53:16.760 shark, which is when you try to be too cute by

00:53:18.860 half, it ends up backfiring on you.

00:53:20.680 And the people bringing these cases that

00:53:23.860 waited till the last minute right before the

00:53:26.000 election to bring them, you know, there's

00:53:28.860 these things are starting to fall apart.

00:53:30.960 I actually think the New York case is

00:53:32.460 falling apart. But I and as you just

00:53:35.140 mentioned, the Georgia case is falling

00:53:36.420 apart. This documents case, I think, is

00:53:38.200 falling apart precisely because they waited

00:53:40.720 until the eve of election to do it.

00:53:42.760 Anybody familiar with the basic facts in

00:53:46.880 this case knows that when you're dealing

00:53:48.940 with classified documents, you're going to

00:53:50.740 have extended pretrial motions and

00:53:54.320 procedures, hearings in order to determine

00:53:57.000 who gets access to what documents, in

00:53:59.480 particular because many of the people that

00:54:02.360 need to review in order to put on the

00:54:03.840 defense don't have security clearances.

00:54:06.120 So you've got to go through the whole

00:54:07.480 process for security clearances.

00:54:09.200 The court's got to decide what is going to

00:54:11.080 be relevant in the case, what who gets to

00:54:13.740 see what sometimes he's involved.

00:54:15.620 Really, really important national security

00:54:17.320 issue. So the court tries to keep a lid on

00:54:19.200 it. The point of this all, Megan, it was

00:54:21.700 predictable.

00:54:22.800 So when the Justice Department waited, you

00:54:25.820 know, four years to bring the election

00:54:28.540 interference case on January 6th, they

00:54:30.520 should have known the question of

00:54:31.820 presidential immunity was going to be

00:54:33.260 litigated. The Wall Street Journal was

00:54:34.580 talking about this a year ago.

00:54:36.260 They should have known that this was going

00:54:37.480 to be something that would likely go to

00:54:38.980 the Supreme Court.

00:54:39.940 They should have known when they brought

00:54:41.300 this case that you were going to have

00:54:42.660 extensive pretrial motions on exactly

00:54:45.460 the issue that you just mentioned, which is

00:54:47.140 the classified documents and who gets

00:54:48.700 access to that and which documents are

00:54:50.840 actually going to see the light of day in

00:54:52.400 court.

00:54:53.280 So this is, I think, sort of

00:54:55.340 lawfare imploding on its own

00:54:57.620 weight. And it

00:54:59.020 you know, I think the left at some

00:55:01.280 point is going to have a reckoning on

00:55:03.500 this.

00:55:03.840 What is Jack Smith going to do?

00:55:07.080 Is he going to drop now?

00:55:08.180 Because there's two pieces of that case.

00:55:09.900 Trump had a bunch of documents he

00:55:11.100 shouldn't have had.

00:55:11.700 And then when hit with a subpoena by

00:55:14.480 the feds, he ignored it, defied it,

00:55:17.100 obstructed it.

00:55:18.120 And there are many arguing Jack Smith.

00:55:20.680 Many have said from the beginning he

00:55:21.800 never should have brought part one.

00:55:22.900 He should have just stuck to obstruction,

00:55:24.740 which is a much cleaner, easier case for

00:55:26.600 him.

00:55:27.020 Obstruction, I guess.

00:55:27.780 So does he do you think now in the

00:55:29.780 wake of this, does he, Jack Smith, drop

00:55:31.860 part one and just make this a pure

00:55:33.560 obstruction case in an effort to try to

00:55:35.100 put the pedal to the metal before

00:55:36.340 November?

00:55:39.600 Theoretically, he could do that.

00:55:40.880 It gets hard to sort of put the toothpaste

00:55:43.240 back into the tube at this point of the

00:55:46.180 case.

00:55:46.880 He could theoretically try to do it.

00:55:48.680 The strongest thing he has on the

00:55:50.140 documents case is the obstruction case.

00:55:52.440 But I think there are all kinds of

00:55:54.260 procedural hoops that he would have to

00:55:56.960 go through in order to segregate these

00:55:58.640 these two issues.

00:56:00.100 But, you know, again, I think that

00:56:02.440 Democrats got to be careful here because,

00:56:04.560 you know, you can make a quote in the

00:56:05.880 case of Biden documents.

00:56:07.300 There wasn't any obstruction there.

00:56:08.840 Biden agreed to give the documents back.

00:56:10.680 But under the Espionage Act, there is a

00:56:13.300 provision.

00:56:13.880 I think it's subsection F, which says

00:56:16.100 a reckless treatment, sort of gross

00:56:19.680 negligence treatment of documents.

00:56:22.140 And you're knowing that you know that

00:56:23.860 you have in your possession, even if you

00:56:25.360 later give that back. 0.95

00:56:26.320 So there's no obstruction.

00:56:27.580 Give them back.

00:56:28.180 So there's no obstruction is a felony.

00:56:30.860 And again, to my point about the tables

00:56:32.960 being turned, I can see a case where

00:56:35.560 somebody could bring a case could bring

00:56:37.340 an indictment against Joe Biden for that.

00:56:38.920 I'm not advocating that.

00:56:40.120 I hope that that doesn't happen.

00:56:41.900 But if you look at just the plain

00:56:43.620 reading of the law.

00:56:45.320 So I think Democrats have got to be

00:56:47.040 very careful here.

00:56:48.440 I don't think actually Jack Smith is

00:56:50.420 going to divide the case along the lines

00:56:51.900 you suggested, although theoretically,

00:56:53.420 how can he not?

00:56:54.300 I don't think this is a case.

00:56:55.240 I don't get it.

00:56:56.340 I don't know.

00:56:56.980 Phil, how can he not divide it at this

00:56:58.660 point?

00:56:58.860 Well, because he's not going to get a

00:57:00.400 trial.

00:57:01.200 I know, but he's not going to get a

00:57:03.720 trial.

00:57:04.460 His only goal is to get it before

00:57:06.400 November.

00:57:06.500 It would likely be a separate

00:57:06.760 indictment.

00:57:08.860 It's even if you do that, Megan, it's

00:57:10.400 not clear you have time to you have

00:57:12.520 time to schedule a trial on that part

00:57:14.240 of it before November.

00:57:16.000 But he's got at least a shot.

00:57:17.680 I don't know.

00:57:18.100 He's got at least a shot.

00:57:19.240 You've got to jump through.

00:57:20.160 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:57:20.880 And I'm sure there are hoops.

00:57:21.900 But there's zero chance of him

00:57:23.700 getting this case to trial before

00:57:24.700 November, which he's made very clear

00:57:25.920 as his sole goal for all the reasons

00:57:27.320 we know.

00:57:28.320 I don't see how he keeps part one

00:57:30.940 alive at this point.

00:57:31.780 I just I just don't.

00:57:32.680 But let me give you a little sampling,

00:57:34.500 Phil, of how the media has decided.

00:57:37.620 Look, this has been predicted.

00:57:39.100 If you listen to Andy McCarthy, he

00:57:40.500 tried these cases for a living where

00:57:41.760 he had lots of classified documents

00:57:43.100 involving terrorists.

00:57:43.900 He said from day one, no chances get

00:57:46.160 tried gets tried before November

00:57:47.300 2024.

00:57:48.440 Understanding the number of security

00:57:49.920 clearances and so on, you'd have to

00:57:51.060 go through.

00:57:51.660 This is not a shock, a shock, as

00:57:53.420 Julian's just said, just said.

00:57:54.640 It's not.

00:57:55.280 You could have foreseen that this was

00:57:56.500 going to take much longer.

00:57:58.160 Nonetheless, here's some of the

00:57:59.340 reaction from the media.

00:58:01.940 Here's Judge.

00:58:03.380 This is Lisa Rubin on The Judge

00:58:05.620 on Morning Joe.

00:58:07.160 And right after it, we'll play

00:58:09.040 Judge Joe Scarborough himself

00:58:10.840 on Aileen Cannon, the judge in the

00:58:12.780 case.

00:58:13.000 Listen.

00:58:13.140 This is a judge who is overwhelmed

00:58:17.380 and is second-guessing herself at

00:58:19.640 every corner.

00:58:21.260 She seems to be overwhelmed with

00:58:22.840 anxiety about the import of the case.

00:58:25.860 And so a combination of insecurity in

00:58:28.860 your own decisions, the gravity of the

00:58:31.700 case before you, and maybe also some

00:58:34.780 inclination to slow walk where you don't

00:58:37.480 have trust in yourself, that's a toxic

00:58:39.640 brew.

00:58:40.120 And we're, you know, we're all

00:58:41.580 drinking it right now.

00:58:42.420 We're watching it play out.

00:58:43.940 I guess she's either ill-equipped,

00:58:47.680 extraordinarily ill-equipped, or she

00:58:50.420 just doesn't care what the world

00:58:51.880 thinks of her.

00:58:52.700 She's right now looking like everything 0.78

00:58:56.480 she's doing, she's doing to help

00:58:58.060 Donald Trump.

00:58:59.240 I just want to tell the listening

00:59:00.600 audience, Phil, as Joe Scarborough is

00:59:03.240 saying, she's just ill-equipped. 1.00

00:59:04.720 You've got Mika Brzezinski there, who

00:59:06.600 knows nothing about anything and

00:59:09.480 certainly knows nothing about the

00:59:11.440 law, going, she's got the hands out 1.00

00:59:16.720 like, what can one do?

00:59:18.660 Shaking her head like, it's such a

00:59:20.580 shame that this federal district judge

00:59:22.400 is such a dumbass, unlike me.

00:59:24.560 The amount of delusion sitting on that

00:59:28.580 set, she knows nothing.

00:59:31.640 This coffee cup filled with water has

00:59:34.180 more legal gravitas than Mika Brzezinski

00:59:36.840 does. Just know when you don't know

00:59:39.460 anything and be quiet.

00:59:41.460 Anywho, what do you make of the

00:59:42.900 criticisms now that the judge was

00:59:45.040 overwhelmed and full of anxiety and

00:59:47.940 ill-equipped or just doesn't care,

00:59:50.240 Phil?

00:59:51.900 Well, I have news for MSNBC and all nine

00:59:55.840 people who watch MSNBC.

00:59:58.400 The magnitude of the case before the judge

01:00:01.620 alone, which one of the people I just

01:00:04.940 heard speaking about, that issue alone is

01:00:07.880 enough to cause a wise judge to pump the 0.90

01:00:11.140 brakes and say, look, we don't need to go

01:00:13.660 headlong into this thing without doing our

01:00:16.860 due diligence.

01:00:17.580 The judge's job is to make sure that the

01:00:21.120 trial and the process is fair.

01:00:24.020 And when you're rushing through it because

01:00:25.920 you're trying to get the trial done for some

01:00:29.080 reason, like, you know, before an election,

01:00:31.240 that's sort of arbitrary.

01:00:32.520 It has nothing to do with justice.

01:00:34.600 The judge's job is to make sure the trial

01:00:36.520 and the process is fair to the defendant.

01:00:39.560 And that's what due process requires.

01:00:41.620 And so the fact that a judge is actually

01:00:44.020 providing due process and a fair process

01:00:47.420 to a criminally accused is something that

01:00:49.960 people on the left used to celebrate.

01:00:52.620 But now, because they are so consumed with

01:00:55.180 get Trump hatred, it's the wrong thing to do in

01:00:58.480 their mind.

01:00:59.220 They would rather see somebody like Fonnie

01:01:01.480 Willis on the bench, who is absolutely just

01:01:04.240 going to do anything recklessly and carelessly

01:01:07.180 with one mission in mind, and that is to get

01:01:10.320 Trump before the election.

01:01:12.660 Julian, can you believe that?

01:01:14.140 Like, and Joe Scarborough, too.

01:01:16.360 Like, OK, so it just has to be she's dumb 0.99

01:01:20.300 or she doesn't care.

01:01:22.300 Do you think he's ever tried a case involving

01:01:25.040 this number of classified documents, allegedly

01:01:26.940 classified documents, Intel matters, having

01:01:29.560 security clearances?

01:01:31.180 This is a joke.

01:01:32.020 These people who pretend to be experts are a joke.

01:01:37.460 Well, that's right, because journalism has changed.

01:01:41.100 It is no longer about fact finding or searching

01:01:43.640 for the truth is about opinion and building your

01:01:46.500 following based on your opinion, even if it's

01:01:48.720 sort of superficial.

01:01:50.540 This was very predictable.

01:01:51.780 As I just said, I don't want to be repetitive.

01:01:53.400 But when this case was brought, there were plenty

01:01:56.940 of commentators, myself included, but lots of others.

01:02:00.460 Andy McCarthy is excellent, who said that, you know,

01:02:04.740 when you are anytime you bring a case with classified

01:02:07.060 documents, you will have extended pretrial procedures.

01:02:10.200 It was completely predictable.

01:02:11.540 So when Joe Scarborough, you know, sort of laments to the MSNBC

01:02:18.120 viewers that this is some type of abuse, he's got no solution.

01:02:24.960 He has no way, and nor does Mika have any way of saying this is

01:02:29.200 what the judge should have done in this case.

01:02:30.720 There's no way around the classified information

01:02:34.080 procedure.

01:02:34.540 But the act that requires that the court go through this kind

01:02:39.440 of motion in order to protect national security and determine

01:02:41.800 what national security documents will actually be seen by

01:02:44.840 witnesses, by defense counsel, and others before they make

01:02:50.700 their way, before all of this makes its way into the courtroom.

01:02:53.820 So completely predictable.

01:02:55.340 And, you know, in terms of a new trial, it's sort of, it would

01:02:57.640 be a new indictment, and the clock would start kicking.

01:03:00.160 As I say, it's theoretically impossible, it's theoretically

01:03:03.220 possible, but when you look at what's involved in bringing

01:03:07.100 just once the indictment, just on the obstruction, it's, it's

01:03:11.740 hard for me to see that getting done before November, no matter

01:03:14.720 how you slice it.

01:03:16.020 Yeah, that's why Trump's drawing the inside straight.

01:03:19.000 All right.

01:03:19.160 So you had mentioned during Stormy, that piece of our discussion,

01:03:22.840 you thought it was going poorly for the prosecution.

01:03:25.840 Does that lead you, Julian, even with this jury pool, to

01:03:29.900 believe there will be an acquittal or a hung jury?

01:03:34.660 I think there will be a hung jury.

01:03:36.540 I think when you get down to when, and I, and I know I'm going

01:03:40.720 out on a limb on that, I know I'm in the minority, but I think

01:03:43.040 when you get down to, yeah, I think that when you get down

01:03:46.080 to the question about whether this was a book creeping

01:03:48.220 violation, it's not, there's nowhere that I can find a New

01:03:51.600 York law that says an NDA shouldn't be recorded as a legal

01:03:54.260 expense.

01:03:54.680 So that's one.

01:03:56.280 And then there's a second question about whether there is a

01:04:00.700 federal offense that you can attach it to.

01:04:02.640 The court has, the court has no jurisdiction on that.

01:04:05.380 And as we've discussed that nausea, now there's no federal

01:04:08.000 crime here.

01:04:08.800 Right.

01:04:08.960 But we're talking about what the jury's going to do.

01:04:10.700 And I think the, I think that the defense has an opportunity in

01:04:18.380 closing arguments to, to, to make those points.

01:04:22.120 And I think that, I think there is, there is, for reasons we

01:04:27.540 discussed about how the prosecution is handling this case, I think

01:04:30.780 Stormy Daniels cross-examination is going to go very bad for the

01:04:34.540 prosecution.

01:04:35.040 I think there will be enough fair-minded jurors to say this

01:04:38.340 should, there's, there's not enough evidence for a conviction

01:04:41.240 here.

01:04:41.600 And they should do that.

01:04:42.780 This is, this is an abusive case for which there should be some

01:04:46.340 type of reckoning.

01:04:47.740 The, and let's not forget, Phil, that the true star witness of

01:04:51.800 this case is Michael Cohen.

01:04:53.420 And whatever cross, you know, we're in the midst of cross with

01:04:56.520 Stormy resumes on Thursday, whatever cross she gets will pale in

01:05:01.360 comparison to what Trump's lawyers are going to do to Michael

01:05:05.060 Cohen.

01:05:05.580 So are you at all newly optimistic about a possible acquittal or hung

01:05:12.580 jury?

01:05:14.680 Yeah, well, Michael Cohen is like the ideal witness.

01:05:18.620 Like this is the kind of witness that I dream about being able to have

01:05:22.140 on court station, not only because he's a convicted felon and all that,

01:05:26.300 but because of all the prior inconsistent statements and I'm going to go

01:05:30.020 through all of them and I'm going to take my time and I'm going to make

01:05:32.840 sure that I have fun with this and show the jury that he blows hot and

01:05:37.140 cold at the same time.

01:05:38.220 And he can't keep his story straight.

01:05:40.280 The thing about the jury though, and I agree that there's probably going to

01:05:44.180 be an acquittal.

01:05:45.780 I'm excuse me, not an acquittal.

01:05:47.020 I don't think there's going to be an acquittal.

01:05:48.300 I think it's going to be a mistrial based on the hung jury.

01:05:51.260 And here's why.

01:05:52.200 Remember there are two lawyers on this jury.

01:05:54.800 Normally I don't want a lawyer on my jury because then you wind up with a

01:05:58.820 jury of one effectively because the other jurors oftentimes would defer to

01:06:04.420 the, to the lawyer back in the jury room.

01:06:07.160 However, if you have a case where you have two lawyers,

01:06:10.520 it's very seldom that two lawyers agree completely on everything.

01:06:14.040 So they've got that going for them.

01:06:15.720 If you have disagreement in the jury room,

01:06:17.680 that's a good thing for Donald Trump,

01:06:19.820 but there's so much about this case that is in the weeds legally.

01:06:25.160 The things that we've been talking about here today, for example,

01:06:28.560 is minutiae that might get missed by the average lay person on the jury,

01:06:34.500 but a lawyer in the jury, or maybe two of them back there at least,

01:06:38.560 might be able to understand the finer points of the legal arguments.

01:06:42.220 And if, even if they hate Trump,

01:06:44.020 maybe they love the justice system enough to understand that they've got to put

01:06:48.140 their, their passion, their bias,

01:06:50.220 and their prejudice out of their mind and they've got to base their decision on

01:06:54.040 the law and the facts and do the right thing.

01:06:56.480 And if you can get one or two or three in that jury room that are fair minded in

01:07:01.120 that way, then I think Trump stands a chance.

01:07:04.080 And let's not,

01:07:04.640 let's not pretend that a,

01:07:06.900 a hung jury is a victory.

01:07:10.000 Okay.

01:07:10.160 It really is because we try it again.

01:07:14.040 No, it won't be.

01:07:14.840 Uh, all right.

01:07:15.720 I still maintain he's going to be convicted.

01:07:19.360 I don't think he should be, but I think he will be.

01:07:21.660 I think it all comes down to the jury instructions and they're going to be

01:07:25.080 extremely favorable and wrongheaded and will leave the jury right to guilty.

01:07:32.280 Um,

01:07:32.560 I don't have any doubt that one merchant will come through for the prosecution in

01:07:37.060 approving the final jury instructions, just as they want them.

01:07:40.280 Phil Julian, a pleasure.

01:07:42.480 Thanks to both of you so much for joining me today.

01:07:44.840 Having us great.

01:07:45.780 Thanks for having us, Megan.

01:07:47.140 All right, guys, all the best.

01:07:48.280 And we are back tomorrow.

01:07:49.700 Everybody will see you then.

01:07:50.580 Thanks for listening.

01:07:54.220 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:07:56.100 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 09, 2024

Stormy Daniels' Inconsistencies, and Judge Losing Control of Trial, with Julian Epstein and Phil Holloway ｜ Ep. 786

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