The Megyn Kelly Show - Supreme Court's Seismic Affirmative Action Ruling and More, with Jason Riley, Heather Mac Donald, Carrie Prejean, and Britt Mayer ｜ Ep. 578

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00:00:30.880 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.700 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.300 What a day.

00:00:47.840 This is historic.

00:00:49.560 Thank God the Supreme Court has finally seen the light

00:00:53.540 and has ruled that racism in college admissions

00:00:57.840 is no longer allowed.

00:01:00.000 The U.S. Supreme Court announces another blockbuster

00:01:03.420 and, as I said, historic ruling.

00:01:05.420 It is a six-to-three decision

00:01:07.060 and the high court,

00:01:09.060 after decades of arguing over this,

00:01:12.240 has finally ruled that it is unconstitutional

00:01:15.060 to consider race in university admissions

00:01:18.360 under the Equal Protection Clause of our Constitution.

00:01:21.740 Chief Justice Roberts, writing for the majority,

00:01:25.420 quote,

00:01:26.280 eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it.

00:01:30.640 And he goes on from there.

00:01:31.960 Joining me now, someone who has written extensively on this topic,

00:01:35.600 Jason Riley.

00:01:36.680 Jason's been speaking and writing about the issue of affirmative action for decades.

00:01:40.960 He's a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute

00:01:42.720 and author of the recent book,

00:01:44.600 Maverick,

00:01:45.020 A Biography of Thomas Sowell.

00:01:47.940 Jason, thank you so much for being here today.

00:01:49.880 I thought of you.

00:01:51.400 I haven't read the whole thing.

00:01:52.280 It's like a tome,

00:01:53.580 the decision with all the concurring opinions and dissenting.

00:01:56.620 But when I flipped to Justice Thomas' concurrence,

00:02:00.000 he had Thomas Sowell all over the place.

00:02:02.860 And I thought,

00:02:03.300 gosh, how timely your book and the piece done on your book are.

00:02:08.380 This is historic.

00:02:09.420 And I know you've been talking about this for a long time.

00:02:12.140 The mainstream narrative already is how calamitous this is going to be

00:02:16.500 from minority students.

00:02:18.860 And I've heard you enough times to know your position is,

00:02:21.700 no, to the contrary,

00:02:22.980 it's exactly the opposite.

00:02:25.940 Yes, I think it is exactly the opposite.

00:02:29.400 You know,

00:02:29.660 the question here was not only for me,

00:02:32.520 the constitutionality,

00:02:34.040 the dubious constitutionality of racial preferences.

00:02:37.020 I also looked at the harm that these policies were doing to,

00:02:41.420 to black students.

00:02:42.840 And, and, and, and so I think,

00:02:44.820 you know,

00:02:46.020 we saw what would happen when they went away because some states had

00:02:50.840 eliminated race-based affirmative action and college admissions like

00:02:54.740 California back in the 1990s.

00:02:56.800 And after California did it,

00:02:58.840 black enrollment in the university of California,

00:03:01.840 the university of California system went up.

00:03:04.840 Black graduation rates went up and not by a little bit.

00:03:07.940 And in the more difficult STEM fields,

00:03:09.860 they went up.

00:03:10.940 So these were good outcomes.

00:03:12.560 You know,

00:03:12.800 these policies had been put in place to supposedly help increase the ranks of

00:03:17.740 the black middle class.

00:03:18.780 But in practice,

00:03:20.120 they had been resulting in fewer black doctors and lawyers and scientists than we

00:03:25.340 would have had in the absence of the policy.

00:03:27.840 So I'm,

00:03:28.380 I'm so happy.

00:03:29.320 I share your enthusiasm about the importance of today and getting rid of,

00:03:34.980 of these,

00:03:35.620 of these policies.

00:03:36.820 I think this,

00:03:37.440 this is a decision that makes America more just for everyone.

00:03:41.720 Megan.

00:03:43.280 No one should be discriminated against not blacks,

00:03:46.240 not whites,

00:03:47.400 not Asians,

00:03:48.180 not Hispanics. 0.55

00:03:49.020 And obviously the Asians were the plaintiffs in this case,

00:03:52.380 but what kind of sense does it make to discriminate against Asians because of

00:03:57.100 what whites did to blacks?

00:03:58.660 It makes no sense whatsoever.

00:04:00.560 The best way of going forward is not to discriminate period.

00:04:05.100 Yes,

00:04:05.580 exactly.

00:04:06.040 Right.

00:04:06.320 And,

00:04:06.560 and the court said that there was an original decision back in,

00:04:09.640 I think it was 78 was backy.

00:04:11.600 And then the court took another look at this in 2003 when Sandra Day O'Connor said,

00:04:16.260 all right,

00:04:17.100 you know,

00:04:17.420 we're going to allow it.

00:04:18.640 We're continue,

00:04:19.140 we're going to continue to allow race to be a factor,

00:04:21.720 but it cannot be the factor,

00:04:23.960 which was the first time the Supreme court actually sort of fully embraced what had

00:04:28.220 been a very divided decision back in 78.

00:04:30.200 And said,

00:04:30.780 yes.

00:04:31.020 Okay.

00:04:31.240 We stand by that.

00:04:32.160 And that is the law.

00:04:33.000 However,

00:04:33.440 we can only see this taking place for another 25 years or so.

00:04:37.300 Any race,

00:04:38.540 race based decisions would have to be evaluated under the strictest constitutional

00:04:44.760 scrutiny.

00:04:45.240 And we don't see this one withstanding scrutiny for more than the next two

00:04:48.520 decades.

00:04:49.300 And here we are,

00:04:50.440 we're two decades later,

00:04:51.460 not quite 25 years,

00:04:52.480 but two decades after that decision.

00:04:53.920 And the court finally saying it's time,

00:04:55.840 this is ridiculous.

00:04:56.760 We can't keep doing this.

00:04:57.840 And your justifications,

00:04:59.220 Harvard and UNC for continuing to use race as a factor are so vague and amorphous.

00:05:06.620 No court could ever meaningfully assess them.

00:05:09.500 You've been talking about that for a while too,

00:05:11.060 because they basically say,

00:05:12.360 well,

00:05:13.160 it's,

00:05:13.420 it's just good for the student body to have a diverse collection of students.

00:05:18.920 But how's the court supposed to put its finger on whether or not that actually is producing

00:05:23.340 real benefits?

00:05:24.120 Right,

00:05:25.180 right.

00:05:25.500 No one,

00:05:25.840 no one can,

00:05:26.560 can sort of quantify the benefits of diversity.

00:05:32.400 You know,

00:05:32.960 does it result in,

00:05:34.720 in,

00:05:35.040 in higher graduation rates?

00:05:36.540 Does it result in higher earnings after graduating?

00:05:41.220 No,

00:05:41.600 no one can sort of determine exactly what these benefits are in a quantitative way.

00:05:47.380 And,

00:05:47.700 and the justices have called,

00:05:49.200 called the,

00:05:50.080 the,

00:05:50.340 the,

00:05:50.600 the schools out on that.

00:05:51.760 They also called them out for essentially lying about using quotas.

00:05:55.200 I was very happy to look at Chief Justice Roberts,

00:05:58.660 majority opinion,

00:06:00.460 where he actually includes a chart showing the numerical quotas that these schools had been using.

00:06:06.020 And he looks at a period between,

00:06:07.440 I believe it's 2009 and 2019.

00:06:11.220 And he shows how the percentage of blacks and Hispanics admitted each freshman class at Harvard was right around 10 to 12%.

00:06:18.520 And for Asians,

00:06:20.000 it was right around 18 to 20% year after year after year.

00:06:24.400 And this was not a coincidence.

00:06:26.300 He says,

00:06:26.840 you guys are using,

00:06:28.480 essentially using quotas and lying about it.

00:06:30.800 And I was very happy for him to call them out on that because that again,

00:06:34.500 out in California,

00:06:35.440 when they overturned,

00:06:38.200 when the,

00:06:38.720 when the ballot initiative ended racial preferences and college admissions,

00:06:42.620 the flagship schools,

00:06:43.560 Berkeley and UCLA have been saying,

00:06:45.060 we don't,

00:06:45.400 we don't use caps on Asians either.

00:06:47.840 Yet after those,

00:06:48.980 those,

00:06:49.320 those preferences went away after they could no longer take race into account,

00:06:54.360 Asian enrollment spiked in the University of California system,

00:06:57.440 flagship schools.

00:06:58.360 And so these schools have been lying for decades about using these quotas.

00:07:02.940 And I was very happy to see the chief justice call them,

00:07:05.760 call them out on it.

00:07:07.520 Well,

00:07:07.560 when you hear the chief justice described the process at places like Harvard for admissions,

00:07:12.480 it really does make clear that race is the final.

00:07:16.760 It's,

00:07:17.120 it's both the initial and the final determining criteria.

00:07:20.200 It's not through.

00:07:21.680 Yeah.

00:07:21.900 Well,

00:07:22.420 what we've learned is that if you allow it to be a factor,

00:07:24.980 it will become the factor that that is what inevitably will happen.

00:07:29.540 And they were so blatant about it.

00:07:32.000 There,

00:07:32.320 there's a study that was submitted in one of the briefs showing that an Asian,

00:07:37.840 your,

00:07:38.040 your typical Asian male student admitted to Harvard had about a 25% chance of

00:07:44.260 admission.

00:07:45.020 If you keep everything about him,

00:07:47.220 the same,

00:07:47.720 all of his credentials,

00:07:48.680 class rank,

00:07:49.360 test scores,

00:07:49.900 and so forth,

00:07:50.760 and simply change his race to black,

00:07:53.900 his chances of admission went up to 95%.

00:07:56.660 So race was not just a factor or,

00:08:01.080 or some,

00:08:01.620 or a tipping issue that tipped the scales a little bit.

00:08:04.860 It was the factor and,

00:08:07.160 and,

00:08:07.300 and it was wrong.

00:08:08.360 It was wrong.

00:08:09.120 And when I talk about the harm that these policies were doing,

00:08:13.920 what they're essentially doing are setting up smart kids to fail.

00:08:18.880 These kids are being minority kids are being funneled into these highly selective

00:08:23.780 schools to make their,

00:08:25.700 their,

00:08:25.960 their,

00:08:26.300 the college catalog look like America to,

00:08:29.480 to sort of color code the campus,

00:08:31.840 the,

00:08:31.960 the window dressing.

00:08:33.340 And,

00:08:33.960 and,

00:08:34.120 and when you're a bad fit for a school,

00:08:36.260 you're less likely to graduate and to go on and,

00:08:39.820 and,

00:08:39.940 and have a profession and what you prefer.

00:08:41.660 There was a study that was also submitted by the plaintiffs by a Duke professor of economics,

00:08:48.920 who did a study of freshmen at Duke,

00:08:51.220 another highly selective school.

00:08:52.700 And he found that black males that were freshmen at Duke about 76% of them expressed an interest in majoring in economics or one of the STEM fields, which was far higher than among white males, but only about 35%, less than half actually ended up obtaining a degree in those fields.

00:09:11.820 Well, well, the fall off rate among whites was only about five percentage points.

00:09:15.900 And he said the entire difference here was the entrance scores of the black students.

00:09:21.140 Duke admitted some black kids who met the credentials of the average kid at the school.

00:09:25.160 And those kids did fine.

00:09:26.640 But Duke also admitted black kids who did not meet the average credentials of everyone else at the school.

00:09:32.400 And those kids struggled.

00:09:34.240 They dropped out.

00:09:35.420 They switched to easier majors.

00:09:36.640 You've, you've, you've cited something similar happening at MIT, which really underscores this problem too.

00:09:42.260 Can you tell that story?

00:09:43.760 Sure.

00:09:44.200 Uh, this was another study done, uh, a little further back of, of black students at MIT who were, um, you know, on, they had scored in, in, uh, the, the, the 90th percentile of, uh, of, of all black kids, of all kids in the country, uh, white or black on the math section of, of the SAT.

00:10:04.300 So these are some very smart black kids, but among their peers at MIT, they were in the 10th percentile in terms of their test scores.

00:10:13.560 So kids who would have been hitting it out of the park at a less selective university, um, uh, would have been on a Dean's list at a less selective university.

00:10:22.700 We're struggling at MIT.

00:10:24.760 What, what is the point, Megan, of flunking out of MIT, uh, instead of graduating from UC Santa Barbara?

00:10:32.060 I mean, what are we trying to do here?

00:10:34.740 Uh, and, and, and yet this is what these policies are doing.

00:10:37.220 They were setting up kids to fail and, and good riddance to them.

00:10:40.980 Good riddance to them.

00:10:42.260 Mm-hmm.

00:10:42.920 The chief justice said, uh, many universities have concluded wrongly that the touchstone of an individual's identity is not challenges bested, skills built, or lessons learned, but the color of their skin.

00:10:54.980 Our constitutional history does not tolerate that choice.

00:10:59.220 Uh, he, now he goes on to say at the end, something interesting and somewhat controversial.

00:11:04.020 He says, um, universities can still consider applicants discussion of their personal race based experiences as part of essays that we all have to submit when we apply to college.

00:11:15.720 Here's what he wrote, quote, not just heat, the majority, nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise.

00:11:30.080 But despite the dissent's assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today.

00:11:39.560 And the question is, I get what he's saying.

00:11:41.760 You know, it's the same way I could write an, even if I didn't check on a box that I was a woman applying to Harvard, I could write a big essay about how I was part of the Me Too movement.

00:11:51.680 And, uh, you know, I came forward and I stood up for other women, hint, hint, hint.

00:11:56.980 That's what he's saying you're allowed to do.

00:11:58.720 And, and the question is really, does this give the permission slip for the regime to just continue?

00:12:06.540 Well, he, he very explicitly says that it does not.

00:12:09.400 And I think he's trying to preempt that, that, that he's, he's concerned that schools might try and use proxies for race to get, uh, the result that they want.

00:12:19.520 And I don't, I don't doubt that they will.

00:12:21.380 I mean, um, I, I don't, I don't expect the other side to just back down and say, oh, we lost the court.

00:12:27.100 We tried, uh, we're just going to move on.

00:12:29.540 I think, I think they're going to really challenge this ruling and it's going to take repeated lawsuits to, to test the resolve of the Supreme Court justices in this ruling.

00:12:38.380 Um, you know, Thomas, Thomas talks about how, and in his, uh, concurring opinion about how it took more than a half century, uh, after the, the Plessy v. Ferguson, uh, decision to correct it.

00:12:50.280 And Brown v. Board of Education, that took, you know, more than 50 years.

00:12:53.520 He said separate, but separate, but equal is okay.

00:12:56.720 You can have.

00:12:57.100 Yeah. And so, and now we've taken 46 years to correct the Bakke decision that you mentioned, which was handed down in 1978.

00:13:04.620 But I suspect that, um, what you're going to see from the left is a lot like what you saw after the Brown v. Board of Education from Southern segregationists who said, frankly, we don't give a damn what the Supreme Court decided.

00:13:20.560 We are not integrating.

00:13:21.780 And you saw them, uh, go through all kinds of contortions to try and not do this.

00:13:27.940 I mean, it took more lawsuits.

00:13:29.320 It took the sending of federal troops down in some cases to have the Supreme Court decision enforced.

00:13:35.620 And I don't expect the other side to give up.

00:13:38.480 I think they're going to fight this just as hard.

00:13:40.460 And I know they hate the analogy of being likened to those Southern segregationists, but that's exactly what they're, what, what the role they're applying here.

00:13:47.440 And I expect them to play.

00:13:49.900 Well, I want to talk to you more about California and what happened there, because I know you've pointed out in the past, Americans approve of, they will approve of a decision.

00:13:59.240 Like this, because they disapprove of affirmative action across racial groups.

00:14:03.320 And that's one of the reasons why when it's put to the voters, even in a state as liberal as California, they voted to strike down affirmative action in the college level long before today.

00:14:12.020 They did that long before.

00:14:13.180 So we do have some evidence of how this is likely to go.

00:14:15.240 But so let's just put a pin in that right now, because I do want to talk a little bit about Justice Jackson, Ketanji Brown Jackson and Clarence Thomas's response.

00:14:23.540 These are two African-American jurists having a battle over whether race is an appropriate consideration at the college level.

00:14:32.200 And it's kind of interesting to watch them go back and forth.

00:14:34.140 She, in her dissent, says the following, I write separately to expound upon the universal benefits of considering race in this context in response to a suggestion that it's unfair for a college's admission process to consider race as one factor in a holistic review of its applicants.

00:14:52.700 Again, back to sort of the lie that it's just one of many.

00:14:56.080 It's just one of many.

00:14:56.780 She writes, this contention blinks both history and reality in ways too numerous to count.

00:15:02.080 But the response is simple.

00:15:03.320 Our country has never been colorblind.

00:15:05.300 Given the lengthy history of state-sponsored race-based preferences in America, to say that anyone is now victimized in a college, if a college considers whether that legacy of discrimination has unequally advantaged its applicants, fails to acknowledge the well-documented intergenerational transmission of inequality that still plagues our citizenry.

00:15:25.680 It is that inequality that admissions programs, such as UNC's, help to address to the benefit of us all.

00:15:32.800 She's back to the, it's the past history of discrimination that makes this discrimination necessary. 0.96

00:15:38.880 We're only righting the ship.

00:15:41.180 We're just getting, we're trying to get back to that true guarantee of equality.

00:15:45.160 Well, that's why I think the California example is so important, Megan.

00:15:49.800 Where is her evidence?

00:15:51.100 Again, after the University of California ended racially-based college admissions policies, Black graduation rates went up.

00:16:00.800 Black enrollment went up.

00:16:02.780 So these policies are not having the effect that she is alleging that they are having.

00:16:08.440 And then there's a larger point here to be made, which is that people like Justice Jackson are suggesting that affirmative action somehow created the Black middle class, that Blacks can't go to college or become professionals without affirmative action policies.

00:16:25.500 That too is belied by history.

00:16:28.000 In fact, the Black middle class was growing at a much faster rate in the decades before affirmative action than it was in the decades after these policies began in earnest in the 1970s.

00:16:39.940 The idea that, you know, Blacks were already going to Harvard, were already teaching at Harvard before affirmative action, the era of affirmative action.

00:16:48.980 So just the idea that Blacks, where does she think people like Martin Luther King and Thurgood Marshall came from?

00:16:56.380 There was no affirmative action back then.

00:16:59.080 So this idea that Blacks cannot enter the middle class, that this is going to decimate the ranks of Black professionals, the ranks of Black college students, is just, I think, belied by history.

00:17:11.980 And I also mentioned, I mentioned the STEM fields earlier, and for Black students, you know, who does the best job of graduating Blacks in the STEM fields, are the HBCUs, the historically Black colleges, which don't use affirmative action.

00:17:28.160 Wow. All right.

00:17:28.940 So, but listen to this, because this is how they do the sleight of hand.

00:17:33.200 You know, given the stats you just gave us about California admissions and how Black graduations went up at these universities.

00:17:39.780 So today, in response to this, the dean of undergraduate admissions at the University of California, Berkeley, said as follows.

00:17:48.480 Actually, I don't know if this was today, but this person has said this.

00:17:51.540 Femi Ogundeli says as follows, quote, California is one of nine states that banned the use of affirmative action for public universities.

00:17:59.900 In the immediate aftermath, selective schools in the state had a 50 percent decline in Black and Latino students admitted.

00:18:10.780 Those numbers have never rebounded.

00:18:12.940 You tell me, Jason, my instinct in just having read your books is, sure, maybe the admissions declined at the top, top, like Berkeley in the UC system, but they likely went up at the other universities and the graduation rates then improved.

00:18:30.500 Not only, yeah, they not only, and they did mostly rebound, even at the elite schools, they mostly rebounded.

00:18:36.500 I don't know if they reached the exact parity to what they were before, but they largely did rebound after initial dip.

00:18:42.220 Again, a dip you would expect if you're going to start matching kids properly with the schools, they're most likely to excel while attending.

00:18:50.020 I mean, what is the goal here to have the most diverse freshman class and then and then have a more racially monotonous graduating class? 0.97

00:19:01.100 I mean, what is the goal here is to produce college graduates, not just to produce a freshman class that looks like America.

00:19:09.760 The goal is to produce college graduates.

00:19:12.360 They kept going back to the reason a student body benefits from a diverse, you know, racial diversity is, among other things, it's hobnobbing with power.

00:19:23.520 If you have more Black students at Harvard, they have better connections.

00:19:26.560 You know, the same reason why people who went to Harvard want little junior to go to Harvard is those connections last for life.

00:19:32.740 If it's a better springboard into a, you know, more fruitful and productive and lucrative profession.

00:19:39.860 And if you stop Blacks from going to the Harvards and so on, they're not never going to make those connections. 0.99

00:19:45.220 Well, again, we want them to graduate, though.

00:19:47.660 I mean, we want at the end of the day, we want a college graduate to go out into the world who knows something and can apply what they've learned in college to their profession.

00:19:56.480 That's what we want.

00:19:57.120 And again, affirmative action is resulting in higher dropout rates or switching to easier majors where you can handle the work.

00:20:05.680 And that's the problem.

00:20:07.720 And even at the University of California, even though there was that drop off at Berkeley and UCLA initially, overall in the entire University of California system, Black enrollment went up and Black graduation rates went up.

00:20:22.040 And so I think that is the better outcome.

00:20:25.300 And it's not a sort of Yale or jail world, Megan.

00:20:28.280 You can you can graduate from a good state school and go on and have a very productive life.

00:20:34.140 I agree that some of these elite schools are going to have networking opportunities.

00:20:38.280 That that that's always been the case.

00:20:40.460 But you need to graduate and you need to be confident in what you do.

00:20:43.920 And affirmative action is setting up kids to fail. 0.79

00:20:46.460 Yeah, I totally agree with you.

00:20:49.040 We've talked about this before and I've talked about it with Heather McDonald, who, by the way, is coming up next on how I was bright enough.

00:20:55.300 But if somebody had put me into Harvard where I didn't belong and my grades would never have got me in, it would have been an utterly frustrating failure for me there.

00:21:05.760 Whereas at Syracuse, where I matched, I did well enough to get myself into law school and through hard work and all the rest of it.

00:21:12.900 I got myself advanced beyond that.

00:21:15.280 And that's true of everybody, which is why, Jason, I've got to ask you about.

00:21:18.780 Yeah, go ahead, because I want to ask you about Michelle Obama.

00:21:20.660 I was just going to say, and I'm glad you made the point that you did, because this is not a racial issue per se.

00:21:27.720 Anytime you admit a student to a school who doesn't meet the credentials of the average student at that school, whether they're they're an athlete, whether they're a child of alumni, they're going to struggle.

00:21:39.140 They're going to congregate in the bottom of the class. That's that's that's just the nature of how that happens.

00:21:45.280 If you admit a kid to a school that can't handle the work, they're going to struggle.

00:21:48.800 So we talk about affirmative action and its negative and negativity in terms of race often, but it's not limited to to to the racial context.

00:21:57.240 Not at all. OK, so listen to what Michelle Obama said in response to this opinion today.

00:22:02.740 She tweeted a lengthy statement that reads in part, of course, students on my campus.

00:22:08.200 And I don't know what she means by my campus. I think she went to Princeton. Right.

00:22:12.220 So maybe she means Princeton and countless others across the country were and continue to be granted special consideration for admissions.

00:22:19.520 Some have parents who graduated from the same school. Others have families who can afford coaches to help them run faster and hit a bit hit a ball harder.

00:22:26.480 Others go to high schools with lavish resources for tutors and extensive standardized test prep that help them score higher on college entrance exams.

00:22:33.860 We don't usually question if those students belong. So often we just accept that money, power and privilege are perfectly justifiable forms of affirmative action while kids growing up like I did are expected to compete when the ground is anything but level.

00:22:48.480 So already I'm going to get to already. You know what, Michelle? Same, same. And I'm white. I didn't have any of those advantages.

00:22:55.700 I showed up the day the SAT. I was like, it's the SAT today. Oh, shit. OK. My friend loaned me a pencil. I never took a review class.

00:23:02.920 We didn't have the money for anything. It's not just a black thing, but she and other progressives, Jason, are going to completely tie the racial inequity and its ongoing nature to this decision.

00:23:14.020 And the irony here, Megan, is that they oppose policies that that in theory would obviate the need for affirmative action and college admissions.

00:23:25.740 This is a K through 12 education issue. Yes.

00:23:28.760 You cannot sit down at age 17, given the inequality that exists in our K through 12 education system,

00:23:35.580 and expect every 17 year old in this country to be on an equal playing field when it comes to taking that test.

00:23:40.840 And this is regardless of the income. It's just we have very poor quality K through 12 education.

00:23:47.060 And and at the K through 12 level, I think, is where our focus should be on things like school choice, on letting parents decide which schools are best for their kids.

00:23:57.060 We know that there are models out there that can produce black kids and white kids, poor kids and rich kids who will do well in that SAT test. 0.67

00:24:04.180 We have a problem doing is scaling up those models to meet demand.

00:24:08.320 And the Michelle Obama's of the world are opposed to many of these school choice measures, vouchers and so forth that would give parents the ability to send their kids to the schools where they would be able to excel and be ready when they sit down and take that test.

00:24:23.540 But the idea that you're going to have you have black kids graduating from high school reading at an eighth grade level, the idea that you're going to make that up with a few remedial classes freshman year at Duke is ridiculous. 0.96

00:24:35.760 You're not. So we really need to be focused on the K through 12 education system.

00:24:39.920 And hopefully there will be a little more of that given this decision.

00:24:44.680 Right. But we can't get any of that addressed because the Democrats are beholden to the unions, which are strongly opposed to charter schools and vouchers and all of school choice.

00:24:53.940 And so she's got only herself to blame for the problem in this education system where you've got, I know, charter schools right now with black kids, mostly black and Hispanic kids who are crushing their white counterparts coming out of public schools that are well funded and so on.

00:25:09.640 But they people like Michelle Obama and her husband shut those down.

00:25:14.240 They don't want more black kids to go to those institutions because the teachers unions don't like them. 0.74

00:25:19.380 There's another thing now because there's been a push recently to get rid of the SAT, to get rid of GPAs, to sort of just any standardized criteria that would let these schools assess somebody's ability to perform at the school is getting erased because they believe it's going to lead to fewer minorities entering the school.

00:25:37.580 I heard you not long ago talking with I think it was somebody I can't remember.

00:25:42.380 Maybe she's from The Wall Street Journal, but you were talking about a study that showed the number of words like that that a young child who is from an affluent family, doctors or lawyers here by a certain point versus right down the line.

00:25:58.220 And how your point was that student coming out at 17 or 18 to apply for college is not going to do well just because they get rid of GPAs and standardized testing.

00:26:09.620 Could you make could you tell us about that study?

00:26:11.960 Sure.

00:26:12.420 This is a study.

00:26:13.560 It's been cited by a number of people.

00:26:15.220 I think Robert Putnam is who I was referring to, the Harvard political scientists, but basically it was a study of words that kids hear per hour at home based on their class background.

00:26:28.920 So a child of parents of professionals, doctors, lawyers might hear something like 2400 words per hour at home.

00:26:37.140 An auto mechanics kid might hear about 1200 and a child of someone on welfare might hear about 600 words per hour at home on average.

00:26:45.860 And it might not seem like a huge difference, but what it means that over a period of time, a three year old child of professionals will have heard more words than a 10 year old child of a family on welfare.

00:26:57.340 And so you think about how early these learning discrepancies begin and the idea that we are blaming a test that kids take at age 17 for being racist is ridiculous.

00:27:12.880 This is something we need to that test is happening way too far downstream.

00:27:18.220 We need to we need to go to the source of the problem.

00:27:22.040 And that's occurring in the K through 12 system.

00:27:24.860 And so that's what the what the study was was was was really getting.

00:27:29.380 So in other words, you're you're you're getting rid of the thing that exposes the problem, not the thing that's causing the problem.

00:27:36.400 And then you're letting kids into the system who will fail because the problem is still there, even if you choose to ignore the diagnostic.

00:27:44.560 Right. All the test is doing is identifying the problem.

00:27:48.700 And if you want to help someone, Megan, you need to know where they are, not where you hope they are or want to pretend they are, but where they actually are, because they can only get where they need to go from where they are.

00:28:00.080 And that test is telling you where they are.

00:28:02.900 Get rid of the test.

00:28:04.080 You're not closing the achievement gap.

00:28:05.720 You're just obscuring the achievement gap and you are not doing that kid any favor.

00:28:10.420 So so I'm and also, Megan, I make one last point here about this, this opposition to the meritocracy.

00:28:17.840 If you are someone on the left, some progressive who believes, you know, that racism is in the air, we breathe in this country.

00:28:23.560 Why would you want to submit your child to some holistic committee at Harvard?

00:28:31.360 Wouldn't you rather want to go in there and say, my kid scored this on the test?

00:28:35.140 He has this GPA.

00:28:36.840 He has this class rank.

00:28:38.420 He deserves to be in the school.

00:28:40.620 I mean, this is what the Jews went through more than 100 years ago.

00:28:43.520 That's why we have the SAT test, because Harvard and Princeton wanted to submit them to holistic review.

00:28:49.500 They would say, oh, yes, you're smart and so forth.

00:28:51.720 But, you know, you're just not the Harvard type.

00:28:54.260 And so we got these objective tests out of that experience so that these schools couldn't do that.

00:28:59.760 And it's bizarre that they want to go backwards to that system that allowed people to discriminate as they as they have done in the past.

00:29:08.180 So last question.

00:29:09.460 Your prediction now in the wake of the Supreme Court striking down affirmative action, saying it is not OK.

00:29:14.140 It is no longer OK to consider race in the admissions process.

00:29:17.800 What's going to happen next?

00:29:19.760 Well, as I said earlier, I think there's going to be a lot of resistance on the left.

00:29:23.540 I think they're going to try and find end runs, proxies for race to continue getting the diversity that they want on campus.

00:29:29.540 So I think more follow up lawsuits will need to be filed to keep the schools honest here.

00:29:34.880 In terms of public opinion, though, and you cited some of this earlier, I think that this is probably going to be a pretty popular opinion with the general public, if not with the with the media elites.

00:29:46.200 I mean, surveys have shown that a majority of whites, blacks, Asians and Hispanics all oppose using race in college admissions.

00:29:54.520 And we had that ballot initiative out in California in 2020, in which there was an attempt to reinsert race based admissions in the University of California system.

00:30:05.720 And it went down. It went down badly.

00:30:07.940 And it was led by Asian parents who said, we are not going back to that old system because it disproportionately harms our kids.

00:30:15.000 So I think the general public is going to side with with this with this opinion.

00:30:19.580 But you'll have your media elites out there, including your black elites like Michelle Obama, claiming to speak for for the masses, but not really, really just speaking for themselves. 0.82

00:30:28.820 Absolutely. Jason Riley, love listening to you. Thank you so much for being here.

00:30:34.460 Thank you, Megan.

00:30:35.780 When we come back, another favorite of my own and of our shows, Heather McDonald is here with thoughts.

00:30:42.380 You could not ask for better guests. I mean, honestly, I love bringing you these brilliant minds on a big day like today.

00:30:48.900 Thank you for listening. During the now, Heather McDonald, Heather is a contributing editor at City Journal and author of the book When Race Trump's Merit, How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty and Threatens Lives.

00:31:06.040 I love this book. Heather, so happy to have you here.

00:31:09.240 Thank you for joining us. Your reaction to the breaking news that Supreme Court has finally struck down the use of race in the admissions process.

00:31:17.100 Well, I was actually sort of disappointed in the Roberts decision because it did not throw out the entire incoherent, conceptually muddled, incredibly frustrating equal protection jurisprudence until I read Justice Sotomayor's dissent, which was so over the top that it made me realize that Roberts actually was quite clever.

00:31:40.260 When Sotomayor claims that the opinion entrenches racial inequality in education, which is a complete lie, I'm grateful for what Roberts did.

00:31:53.380 The idea that this harms Black students is preposterous, Megan.

00:31:59.160 We're going to have as many Black students go to college as before. 0.99

00:32:03.100 The doors are wide open to Black students.

00:32:07.480 It simply means that they will not be as easily catapulted into schools for which they are academically not competitively qualified as before this decision.

00:32:19.920 So this is an improvement.

00:32:23.600 It is not as resounding a refutation of the courts of preposterous rulings as I would have liked.

00:32:32.160 It does not overrule the previous precedent, which allowed racial preferences grutter.

00:32:38.560 But it is it cleverly finesses it to make things harder for colleges to exercise racial preferences.

00:32:46.940 This is directly opposed to the messaging you're hearing right now on places like MSNBC, where a legal analyst named Catherine Christian had the following question.

00:32:55.440 Now that schools no longer have to consider race, you know, I fear what will happen and what will there be many lawyers who look like Charles and I in the future or doctors or accountants.

00:33:12.040 It is a problem and it's not preferential treatment.

00:33:15.440 It's it's really stunning.

00:33:17.960 It is simply absurd.

00:33:19.940 It's racist.

00:33:20.940 Well, but but but it's as a as a just a logical or functional matter.

00:33:28.380 Black students are going to be admitted to hundreds of schools, but they'll be admitted on the same basis as every one of their peers.

00:33:39.540 So if you're qualified to go to Amherst as a black student, you'll go to Amherst, but you won't be catapulted into Harvard, but you will have Amherst available to you.

00:33:50.620 If you're qualified to go to a state school that is perfectly valid as an educational opportunity, you will go to that state school.

00:34:02.260 Every college in the country still is desperate to get as many black students as possible.

00:34:07.700 There is no exclusion of black students in any college today.

00:34:13.000 What there has been is a set of incredibly massive racial preferences, which said that black students with academic scores that would have been automatically disqualifying for a certain set of schools.

00:34:28.640 If presented by whites and Asians, nevertheless, get admitted to those schools, that's not fair. 1.00

00:34:35.600 And it's also not good for those beneficiaries.

00:34:38.540 Instead, those same black students will be admitted to the schools for which they're competitively qualified. 0.98

00:34:44.960 Mm hmm. The the left, the dissents in this case seem to think that race is the only thing stopping people of color from getting the same admission rates at a place like Harvard.

00:34:55.800 It is their race. Like if either it's run by a bunch of racists and because of this racist country, they've been kept down and so on.

00:35:02.160 But Justice Thomas responds to some of that, in particular, responding to Justice Jackson and he says Justice Jackson would replace the founders vision with an organizing principle based on race.

00:35:15.300 In fact, in her view, almost all of life's outcomes may be unhesitatingly ascribed to race.

00:35:21.560 This is this is so she writes because of statistical disparities among different racial groups.

00:35:27.060 Even if some whites have a lower household net worth than some blacks, what matters to Justice Jackson is that the average white household has more wealth than the average black household.

00:35:37.580 He goes on. This lore is not and has never been true.

00:35:41.140 Even in the segregated South where I grew up, individuals were not the sum of their skin color.

00:35:46.340 Then is now. Not all disparities are based on race.

00:35:49.280 Not all people are racist and not all differences between individuals are ascribable to race going on.

00:35:54.900 Worse still, Justice Jackson uses her broad observations about statistical relationships between race and select measures of health, wealth and well-being to label all blacks as victims.

00:36:04.820 Her desire to do so is unfathomable to me.

00:36:08.100 I cannot deny the great accomplishments of black Americans, including those who succeeded despite long odds and goes on to say the following.

00:36:16.540 I'm ending here.

00:36:18.740 She claims. OK, he says he's talking about socioeconomic status, other factors and so on.

00:36:24.420 He says Justice Jackson suggests the legacy of slavery and the nature of inherited wealth lingers large.

00:36:30.980 She's saying this, she claims, locks blacks into a seemingly perpetual inferior caste.

00:36:37.380 Such a view is irrational.

00:36:39.280 It is an insult to individual achievement and cancerous to young minds seeking to push through barriers rather than consign themselves to permanent victimhood.

00:36:48.200 He is a treasure, Heather.

00:36:50.100 He is such a treasure.

00:36:51.840 And yet and yet here's the reaction to Justice Thomas by the NCAA president, Derek Johnson.

00:37:00.160 The worst thing about affirmative action is that it created a Clarence Thomas who benefited for the from the program and now is in a position where he's going to deny many young African-American talented individuals an opportunity.

00:37:13.640 NAACP should have said, go ahead.

00:37:18.040 Well, that's outrageous.

00:37:19.480 It's a smear.

00:37:21.540 And whether or not Thomas did benefit from affirmative action, that should not prevent him from looking at it rationally and seeing whether this is a way to help blacks.

00:37:32.420 It is not.

00:37:34.000 There's black students pretty much know that they don't have to meet the same standards, that standards will be lowered for them throughout their careers.

00:37:41.980 They should be told to meet the standards.

00:37:46.100 At this point, there was no mention really in the any of the opinions about the racial skills gap, the academic skills gaps.

00:37:53.780 But that's what's preventing Harvard from being able to create 10 percent black student body without vast racial preferences.

00:38:04.820 If Harvard admitted students based on academic skills alone, there would be less than one percent black students at Harvard.

00:38:15.160 That's because the skills gap is so great.

00:38:17.560 Now, those students that wouldn't be admitted to Harvard with racial preferences will instead go to perfectly good schools like Amherst.

00:38:26.600 Again, this this whole structure is based on such extraordinary academic snobbery and elitism.

00:38:33.060 I'm amazed that so-called second tier colleges put up with it because Harvard is basically saying unless black students come here, their their fate in life is sealed.

00:38:43.580 They are doomed.

00:38:44.800 You know, they have no possibility of succeeding.

00:38:47.360 UC Berkeley said that when the voters in California voted to ban racial preferences, the chancellor said, well, where will we get the leaders of tomorrow if they can't go to Berkeley?

00:38:57.400 Well, they will go to the University of California at Riverside or Santa Cruz or Irvine, and they will get perfectly good educations.

00:39:04.960 Again, Megan, I'm repeating myself.

00:39:07.400 This does not prevent any black student from getting a college education.

00:39:12.860 Opportunities are open.

00:39:14.860 What needs to happen if Harvard wants to get its 10 percent black student bodies absent racial preferences, and I can guarantee you it is going to continue using racial preferences. 0.93

00:39:26.000 Lawrence Bacow announced today that it is already looking for ways to take advantage of the Roberts huge loophole, which he gave, which said, well, of course, you can consider race as part of somebody's life story.

00:39:41.260 So we're back to holistic admission.

00:39:43.440 So I don't think all that much is actually going to change as a result of this.

00:39:46.560 But if Harvard really wanted to say we'll be colorblind, but we still want 10 percent black student body, what it should have said is let's work on closing the academic skills gap.

00:39:58.760 Let's change the academic culture within too many inner city black families that spurns academic achievement rather than studies relentlessly in order to academically succeed. 1.00

00:40:11.600 They won't do that. And they don't care about diversity. I mean, Justice Thomas said when they heard this case, I don't know what diversity means.

00:40:17.720 What what does that mean? And talked about how, you know, look, is it is a college campus like Harvard truly diverse when they have what, four percent conservative professors?

00:40:27.600 Professors, if that never mind the student body where they're openly discriminated against when they join the college Republican club at all these schools, which just has maybe a dozen members when secretly there's scores of others who are just closeted and had to lie through their high school years and on their college admissions essays just to get in.

00:40:44.640 Is that diverse? And the other thing is that these universities, Heather, who want to tout themselves and cloak themselves in glory about how open minded they are and how they really want to help these minorities have a better life.

00:40:55.340 You know, you know, the reality is the half of these admissions are made based on legacy status and whether you're going to help Harvard win the big football game or lacrosse game or what have you.

00:41:07.020 These are not noble people making these decisions at all. They want blacks who are going to make them look good. 1.00

00:41:13.780 They're not actually admitting them because they have some higher purpose.

00:41:16.900 Well, there was a period very early on when Harvard admitted lower income blacks and they did so poorly that it junked that right now Harvard has huge preferences of higher income over lower income blacks. 0.58

00:41:29.280 So it's not interested in, you know, what might be an actual predictor of life experience, which is socioeconomic background.

00:41:38.460 But, yeah, I mean, the whole I would go to pure academic skills admissions.

00:41:45.100 I would throw out any whole anything holistic.

00:41:47.760 I would go purely on a numbers based system precisely in order to put out of a job these outrageously narcissistic screening admissions officers that give themselves such airs.

00:42:00.640 The University of North Carolina admissions officers, we got data on them talking about their little brown people and how, well, this little brown person can't qualify for this scholarship because her grades aren't good enough, but we'll get her in in another way. 0.89

00:42:15.060 And Harvard admissions officers asks 16 year olds, you know, what have you done in life that shows courage and what sort of character do you have?

00:42:25.620 Oh, come on. What sort of character do these admissions officers have?

00:42:29.560 They fancy that they're creating this little utopian perfect community with this, that and that.

00:42:37.860 It's just preposterous. They have such power over these students' lives.

00:42:42.920 Basically, many students today spend the first 18 years of their lives trying to craft some ridiculous resume that will make them stand out to the Ivy Leagues.

00:42:52.960 Get over it. Let's just study, learn things, not engage in preposterous.

00:42:59.560 Learn, you know, internship programs doing homes for habitat or homeless advocacy.

00:43:05.460 Learn, learn history, read literature, be the best possible student you can and go to schools for which you are academically qualified.

00:43:12.760 That is the solution to America's failing education.

00:43:19.280 I mean, we're going further and further behind.

00:43:21.820 Our academic skills are pathetic compared with other countries. 1.00

00:43:26.020 And when we should not be lowering our skills further by the charade of diversity and penalizing academic success.

00:43:34.240 Well, this is part of the problem. So we don't have fourth graders or eighth graders who can read or do math.

00:43:41.500 And yet we're trying to make social justice warriors out of them. 0.96

00:43:44.960 So these kids get up. They do badly on the SAT.

00:43:47.980 They get poor GPAs and then they get admitted to Ivy League schools.

00:43:51.240 It's unbelievable. That's what's happening.

00:43:52.720 But then now at the university level, it looks bad for these Ivy League colleges to keep having all these black students or Hispanic students fail out.

00:44:03.640 So unless they lower the standards of their institution, they're going to be embarrassed.

00:44:08.960 So they have to lower the standards of their institution.

00:44:11.480 And then those people graduate and probably get the same preferences in their medical school application or their law school application.

00:44:17.780 And then we have to compete. Those are the very people we need to compete on behalf of our country in science and technology and innovation.

00:44:25.060 Whereas other countries, like you just mentioned, like South Korea, like the Japanese and so on, aren't worrying about any of this and are on a much different path.

00:44:33.120 Well, racism is irrelevant to a medical lab trying to solve cancer or Alzheimer's disease as it is to getting into a college.

00:44:41.240 And yes, Megan, you're absolutely right. The preferences never end.

00:44:44.620 You know, we point to to Sotomayor and say, well, you see, preferences worked.

00:44:49.240 Well, no, they didn't necessarily because who says she wasn't the beneficiary of preferences throughout her post law school career?

00:44:58.480 In fact, she probably was.

00:45:00.700 So we are now engineering, deliberately engineering mediocrity, if not outright negligence and malfeasance.

00:45:07.880 We are putting our scientific competitive edge at risk by racial preferences throughout our society and especially in the STEM fields.

00:45:18.620 And so really, I would have liked to have seen a more resounding refutation of the idea of using race at all in this majority opinion.

00:45:27.880 But it's better than nothing. But it did not discuss, as I say, the vast academic skills gap, which is why we don't have, you know, why Harvard can't get all the black students that want the demand outstrips the supply. 0.60

00:45:44.080 That's what's really happening. As you point out, these Harvard admissions officers are actually not sitting there saying like they were with the Jews.

00:45:49.500 Let's find a way to keep out the blacks. That's not what they want at all. But the demand outstrips the supply right now. 1.00

00:45:55.520 And the question is, how do we increase the supply of academically gifted, talented, prepared African-American applicants and Hispanic applicants?

00:46:04.300 And they the Democrats won't take an honest look at that, Heather.

00:46:07.980 No. And and you know what needs to happen again?

00:46:11.560 Above all, it has to be an internal culture change.

00:46:14.200 No, we all pretend the discourse around racial preferences and admissions is extraordinary.

00:46:19.960 They will never mention the academic skills gap.

00:46:22.340 There's just some kind of mysterious fact that Harvard can't get all of its its black students that it wants.

00:46:29.000 But what we don't know why is that it is discriminating.

00:46:32.000 Of course, Harvard would rather claim that it is somehow discriminating than to look at that skills gap honestly.

00:46:39.120 But all that's going to happen is is the Harvard core of black students shifts once baby step level down and and vice versa, all the way down the line. 0.85

00:46:48.840 There's just this ratchet that's been going on.

00:46:51.540 So let's hope that the next step, because it's going to get harder now to monitor preferences.

00:46:58.540 But the next step the court will take would be to say completely no more race.

00:47:04.500 It's it's irrelevant.

00:47:06.440 Admit on the basis of neutral, objective facts, not on the basis of the trivialities of race.

00:47:15.660 We should have also had, I think, a more resounding refutation of the idea that to be black represents some kind of specific life experience.

00:47:25.280 You know, and you also get the inevitable contradiction, Megan, where the whole diversity rationale is, well, because because you're black, you, by definition, have some different set of life experiences than some your fellow Brearley student, white Brearley student.

00:47:42.660 That's ridiculous.

00:47:43.880 Manhattan. So but then what happens is so then in in in constitutional history class.

00:47:50.380 Oh, excuse me. They don't teach that any longer.

00:47:52.120 But in your in your race studies class, everybody looks to the black students to tell us what it means to be black or what's your experience of civil rights.

00:48:01.060 And the black students get all mad. Well, why are you stereotyping me because I'm black?

00:48:05.200 Because that's what the diversity rationale says you're here for.

00:48:08.120 So, you know, they wanted both ways to be be let in on the basis of race.

00:48:13.260 And then if anybody actually says, OK, we'll give us the black perspective. 0.77

00:48:17.480 Oh, that's a microaggression. Listen, the whole diversity apparatus is based on racial preferences.

00:48:25.540 The reason we have these DEI bureaucrats is because allegedly it's so awful to be black on a college campus today.

00:48:31.700 Because, as you say, Megan, blacks experience extreme academic difficulty because they're in an academic environment for which they're not competitively qualified. 1.00

00:48:41.660 Again, they should be at a different college. I'm not saying they don't go to college.

00:48:44.980 They go to a college for which they're prepared.

00:48:47.980 And so the DEI bureaucracy comes and says the reason you're experiencing trouble in your first year chemistry class is because you're in a racist environment.

00:48:56.900 So it's ridiculous. Meanwhile, Heather, I know you pointed out in your books.

00:49:00.980 Meanwhile, a lot of these students are two standard deviations below the average SAT score and other scores of their competitors.

00:49:08.500 We're not setting these folks up for success under the current regime.

00:49:12.200 Heather McDonald, thank you so much. Love hearing from you.

00:49:15.480 When we come back, we turn the page with Carrie and Brit, who've got a lot of thoughts,

00:49:20.080 including on that lunacy happening in California with that legislation trying to criminalize parents who don't affirm.

00:49:25.540 Don't go away.

00:49:26.900 As we near the end of Pride Month, don't kid yourself, it's not over.

00:49:34.960 It's now going to be the summer of Pride, perhaps the season of Pride, if you ask Justin Trudeau up north.

00:49:42.340 And we're just going to take a pause and take a look at some of the big stories that we have seen as this thing goes on and on and on,

00:49:48.320 including this now viral moment from a Friday drag march in New York where the attendees openly chanted,

00:49:54.740 we're coming for your children. Now they claim it was taken out of context.

00:49:59.080 What context would make it OK? All this, as I mentioned, a Biden appointee, Rachel Levine,

00:50:06.560 who is a man who now says he's a woman, declares it's a summer.

00:50:10.560 It's a summer of pride. Disturbing displays taking place in front of children across this country and beyond.

00:50:16.100 Here to discuss it all and more, two former Miss California USAs and more importantly,

00:50:21.600 now co-founders of The Battle Cry, Carrie Prejean Bowler and Britt Mayer.

00:50:26.660 And we're excited to tell you that they have a new podcast of their own.

00:50:30.060 It's called The Battle Cry. It's launched on Spotify and it's focused on conversations that matter.

00:50:36.480 So happy for you, ladies. Very glad you're doing this.

00:50:40.000 Oh, thank you. We're excited. We're we're yeah, we're excited about it.

00:50:44.260 And congratulations to you coming back to America and hitting the one million mark on your subscribers.

00:50:50.480 We are so excited for you. Thank you. You gals helped me do it. So I appreciate it.

00:50:56.280 So, OK, there's so much to get to. But and this is, you know, we've been talking about this on the show,

00:51:01.640 but I've got it because you guys have been on to Scott Wiener long before the rest of us.

00:51:06.940 You're Californians. There's a lawmaker, a state senator out there named Scott Wiener,

00:51:10.780 who you actually went and followed around, tried to stick the mic in his face like, what are you doing?

00:51:14.300 What are you? Well, there was very good reason for this. This guy is behind this push in California.

00:51:20.980 It's Assembly Bill 957 in which they are trying to criminalize parents who don't affirm their genders,

00:51:29.480 their child's gender confusion. And it could mean as much as you're you won't allow your child to have 0.99

00:51:35.440 his penis cut off before he's reached the age of majority. The whole thing is so vague and problematic.

00:51:40.880 I don't know whether it would withstand legal scrutiny. It hasn't yet passed the Senate in

00:51:46.060 California, of which he's a part, nor has Gavin Newsom signed it. Newsom signed it. But this is

00:51:51.740 deeply problematic. The fact that it passed the state assembly, ladies, and that now you've got

00:51:56.000 Republican lawmakers, one in particular, saying outright, the only choice at this point is to

00:52:01.580 flee, flee California. It's no longer safe as a parent to stay there. You're both there. What do

00:52:07.420 you make of it? Oh, it's getting bad. The crazy part about it is everybody says, oh, crazy California.

00:52:15.020 But what people don't realize is that what happens here spreads across the nation. So we're here on the

00:52:20.580 front lines in California, but people need to know across the country, like this is coming into a city

00:52:26.440 near you. Like we are, you know, pushing this and pushing against this in California, but people need

00:52:32.960 to wake up and realize that this is coming into your homes, into your children. You know, this, this

00:52:38.460 gender ideology cult, which is exactly what it is. It's a cult that is systematically, you know, 0.94

00:52:44.560 destroying America as we know it. And so we here at the battle cry, and thank you so much, Megan,

00:52:50.140 for standing up against this. We are pushing back against this and saying people better wake up and

00:52:55.000 realize this is a kidnapping bill. This is a child traffic. Yes. This is insane. It's insane.

00:53:01.860 And that's why we did it. Right. Because you could lose custody of your child if you don't affirm.

00:53:07.780 Not only could you go to jail, that'd be the least of your problems. You could lose custody of your

00:53:11.660 child unless you affirm, even though we all know that over 90% of children who have any gender

00:53:16.840 confusion grow out of it. If you just leave them alone. Yes. And this is what we have seen repeatedly

00:53:22.700 with Scott Wiener. And it's why we confronted him when we had the opportunity to, um, when he was

00:53:28.340 outside of his little culture bubble and he came down here and realized not everyone likes his policies.

00:53:33.340 And what we have seen repeatedly with this guy is he wants to create and drive a wedge between

00:53:39.340 parents and children. And I don't even think he has any kids. The guy is a psychopath and he is one

00:53:45.800 of the cult leaders of the gender ideology club, but it's, uh, really concerning that we're reaching

00:53:51.220 a point out here in California. And like Carrie said, California sets the tone for the nation.

00:53:55.280 And it's concerning to see that it's gone to the extreme where now this religion, which that's what

00:54:01.000 this gender ideology is. This religion is now being upheld by government and it's being forced into 1.00

00:54:06.900 legislation that will say, Hey, if you're a parent who, let's say you're a Christian or a Muslim that

00:54:12.120 says, we don't agree with this too bad. We're going to come in and we're going to take your kids,

00:54:16.620 or we're going to favor the parent that says we're going to affirm your gender confusion.

00:54:21.660 So this is the government coming in and literally uprooting the nuclear family is what's happening in

00:54:27.160 California. And don't think it stops here. It will absolutely go outside of California.

00:54:31.780 And AB nine five, seven is one of four horseman bills that we have in California.

00:54:35.280 Actually our first podcast that we had, we had Nicole Pearson with facts, law, truth, justice,

00:54:40.580 who is amazing, break down these four bills. And they're all Trojan horses under this whole guise

00:54:46.020 of LGBT that is aimed at destroying the nuclear family in California under the guise of LGBTQ, 0.97

00:54:54.360 whatever it is, very concerning. This is really scary, you know, because we're all trying to raise

00:54:59.000 our children right and inoculate them against this gender madness. But you just, you never know what's 1.00

00:55:05.180 going to happen. There's so much school pressure. You know, the girls in their school are suddenly 0.97

00:55:09.060 saying, oh, we're all non-binary and you just, you never know. And now they're trying to change the law

00:55:15.380 such that if your kid gets dragged into this nonsense, even temporarily, and you don't affirm,

00:55:21.120 which is honestly the worst thing you can do. I think it's the worst thing you can possibly do.

00:55:26.360 You're a criminal and you lose custody potentially. Like even in California,

00:55:30.560 I'd like to say no lawmaker would pass this, but it just happened in the assembly.

00:55:34.100 Do you ladies think this is going to pass in the state Senate and that even leftist Gavin Newsom

00:55:40.320 would sign such a thing? Well, he is the devil. So nothing, I wouldn't pass anything, you know,

00:55:48.080 I mean, he's literally the devil himself. And so he probably will pass this. We are praying against

00:55:53.320 it. The church needs to stand up and start praying against this because this is evil. This is

00:55:58.440 diabolical evil and it is wreaking havoc on our nation and destroying America. This is a war.

00:56:05.520 This is an absolute war on America. And people need to wake up and realize that this is very

00:56:11.260 serious and scary. I think it's going to pass. And to your point, it's not just California.

00:56:16.200 Rachel Levine, I mentioned, who lived as a man until I think age 55 in medical school and so on,

00:56:22.220 now wants to tout himself as like the first female admiral to be in HHS. You're not. No,

00:56:26.480 you're not. Okay. Until you're actually a woman and an actual woman who lived 55 years as a woman 0.71

00:56:31.920 gets that position. There's no first female. Um, but in any event, this person is a senior 0.97

00:56:37.560 executive within department of human health and human services and is talking about how this kind

00:56:42.520 of care, uh, this cross gender care is necessary for suicide prevention. I'm trying to find the 0.92

00:56:49.880 sound bite. Hopefully my team has got it at the ready. Here we go. Sock 23. Listen to this.

00:56:55.280 We often say the gender affirming care is healthcare. Gender affirming care is mental 1.00

00:57:01.340 healthcare and gender affirming care is literally suicide prevention care.

00:57:07.080 Look at this man, like in his skirt and his pantyhose. Okay. Look at this. We're supposed

00:57:12.620 to listen to him. It's saying that, you know, if you don't, this is back to the lie about if you

00:57:16.840 don't get your child, this affirming care, quote unquote, you're, you're going to lead them into

00:57:21.860 suicide. I want him to show us the freaking data, show us the data. You know what? It reminds me of

00:57:28.960 COVID when they kept harping on us about, you know, stay home, mask, save lives, all of their

00:57:35.640 rhetoric. Show me the freaking data. That's what I want to know. Where, where are the follow-up studies

00:57:41.680 on where the follow-up studies on these kids who have been mutilated and we're throwing thousands

00:57:47.780 on the machine now? Where's, where's the data for those kids showing their long-term benefit risk

00:57:53.960 rate, the analysis done as we continue to throw kids on this, this chopping block. I mean, give

00:58:01.080 me a break. That's what I want to say. I want to say, you can get up there as a puppet and say

00:58:06.020 whatever you want to say. Biden's doing the same thing. Show me the data, show me the follow-up

00:58:10.300 studies, show me the conclusive evidence from which you have formed that opinion. Otherwise get off

00:58:15.940 this stage, take your freaking skirt off and put on a pair of pants and shut up. That's what I want 1.00

00:58:20.680 to say. It's always somebody who's got an agenda of their own, Carrie, right? Like this is a man

00:58:24.840 who's posing as a woman wanting us to call him female. And the first woman, this, the first woman

00:58:29.080 that he's trying to push his own sickness on, on others, right? It's like his mental challenges.

00:58:35.680 He wants normalized through your children and mine. And that other co-sponsor for the bill we were just

00:58:41.880 discussing in California is a woman. She's assembly, an assembly woman who's, she openly says, well, I

00:58:48.820 have a child who's trans or non-binary and I want all these parents to affirm them like I did. Like

00:58:54.160 I, that's your choice, madam. That's your choice. So do you remember Megan, this, this is a big trigger

00:59:00.440 for me because I was one of the first to speak out. I was at Miss USA and I gave my answer about gay 1.00

00:59:06.040 marriage. Now, whether or not you agree with that stance or not, it really doesn't matter. But what

00:59:10.740 happened after that is that they said, well, I'm not going to tell you what you can do in your

00:59:15.820 bedroom. Well, now we're seeing the repercussions of that, the bad fruit from that of, Hey, do what

00:59:22.980 you want in your bedroom. No, it didn't stop there. Megan. Now, now the bedroom is now in the kids'

00:59:28.080 schools. It's now in the classrooms. It's now in the boardrooms. It's now everywhere. And so they're

00:59:34.940 coming after our children. It's not a conspiracy. They're saying it themselves. We're here. We're queer.

00:59:40.040 We're coming for your children. They're not hiding it anymore.

00:59:43.880 It's terrifying. To your point, um, we'll put it on tape. This is the New York city drag

00:59:49.660 marchers. Now they're trying to say, Oh, it's no big deal. Oh, stop it. But here it is. I mean,

00:59:53.960 listen for yourself. Sot 20.

01:00:05.580 Good luck with that. Good luck. Yeah. I mean, and you know how they, they twisted it. They,

01:00:12.020 they twisted it by saying, we've been saying this for years. You're just now catching on.

01:00:17.180 Uh, they, they even, I read an article, I think it's NBC. Yeah. Like it was supposed to

01:00:22.700 excuse them from criticism because they've been saying it for years. They even said in this NBC

01:00:27.620 article, one of the founders of the parade was quoted as saying that they've been saying far

01:00:33.040 worse things. They've been saying kill, kill. And there were a couple of other just horrific

01:00:37.640 things that they said, um, that they've been saying it for years. So somehow that abdicates them

01:00:42.380 of criticism because now we've caught on and we're saying, Oh, Whoa, you have been saying that for

01:00:47.080 years. Well, maybe we weren't paying attention. Maybe we were excusing it. Maybe this is a huge

01:00:50.940 problem that we've let manifest that we need to start to focus on now. Yeah. Because they can't

01:00:55.440 get away with that. I mean, maybe if, if we had seen that a few years ago, we would have said, Oh,

01:00:59.380 whatever. It's a troll move on, but give it, look at the way we spent the first 11 minutes together.

01:01:03.900 The stories that we were discussing, it's real. No one's laughing anymore in response to this

01:01:09.240 chant. It's not meaningless. It's actually deeply disturbing and it's happening. It's,

01:01:13.640 it's happening, Carrie. Yeah. And this, I just thought of this now. Um, I don't know how long

01:01:18.460 we've been on with you, Megan, but I think it's been at least six months. Think about our first

01:01:22.760 episode together. I mean, we were talking about drag shows in schools. Think about how much worse

01:01:27.140 it's gotten. I mean, so much of our content is being consumed by this garbage and it's a poison.

01:01:33.120 And I want people to realize that and recognize that this is a poison and it's a cancer and it is

01:01:38.520 spreading. It is spreading like wildfire. And now we have, we have Biden saying that it is sinful

01:01:45.760 if you are not affirming your kids' gender confusion. I mean, there's this, there's something

01:01:52.320 it's not just, you know, the trans thing is bad enough, but there is sort of a sickness in the 1.00

01:01:58.480 amount of sexuality they want to shove in front of our kids. And this is when that is exactly what we 1.00

01:02:03.820 first, when we first saw you, of course, Carrie, I knew you back from the Fox years, but we saw Brit

01:02:08.860 on camera. I remember we talked about this and she was going off on, you know, what, what's a family

01:02:13.280 friendly drag show. And then you popped up. I'm like, is every one of my sisters out in California

01:02:18.660 just as gorgeous, you know, mama bear advocate. Um, but anyway, that's what you were protesting 0.82

01:02:26.380 over. And now, now you look at it. This is from, I mentioned the Seattle pride, uh, parade. We get

01:02:32.980 all these pride praise. What are they proud of? Not that they shouldn't be proud of this. Take a look

01:02:36.680 at this nonsense, uh, with naked cyclists biking in front of children. It's VO one here. Let's watch it.

01:02:43.440 Oh my God. I can't, there's so many, I can't count their butt naked, full frontal nudity 0.99

01:02:52.000 on their bikes. Kids. Where, where were the arrests, Megan? Yeah. Why did they have

01:02:59.840 public indecency? Why are they given privilege? That's what I want to know. Yeah. It's a good

01:03:06.080 question. I mean, if you walk down the streets of Texas like that, you'd be in a lot of trouble,

01:03:11.760 legal and otherwise. But think about it. Is that where this is going? Like if you can just identify

01:03:17.760 as whatever you want, like, why can't you say, well, this is my freedom of expression. Like I

01:03:22.480 want to make it. I want to walk down the street. I want to identify as a five-year-old. I want to

01:03:26.940 identify as, you know, whatever the hell I want to like, where do we draw the line? Where is objective

01:03:34.120 truth in our nation? And someone needs to stand up and say, absolutely not. Will you do this in front of

01:03:40.380 children? Right. It's not decent. It's, it's indecent. We do have laws against public indecency 0.98

01:03:46.900 and yet they're not being enforced, Brit. They just don't care. They, I guess they don't view

01:03:50.680 this as indecent. Why not? Why not? Because they don't want to touch the LGBT mafia. That's why. 1.00

01:03:56.200 That's exactly what Carrie just said. And it's what we saw at the YMCA when, which really launched

01:04:01.020 the battle cry was we had the situation in San Diego at the YMCA where we had a naked man in the

01:04:07.920 girl's locker room and he exposed himself to a minor who was showering. And we learned really

01:04:13.960 quick as we started asking questions that they are a protected class and that's not okay. And I

01:04:20.940 think that we've reached the tipping point now, you know, you see those parades, you see what

01:04:24.680 happened at the YMCA. The Dodgers literally just honored that dude who is naked in the YMCA.

01:04:30.320 Hey, yeah. I saw you raise this. There he is. That's, that's, that's the man. He claims

01:04:36.040 he's a woman on the right in the black outfit who exposed themselves to young girl to a 17 0.78

01:04:42.120 year old girl in the YMCA. And she was, she testified, you know, and saying, what, what

01:04:46.660 about my young sister? What? And he, and he, there he is next to the sisters for a perpetual

01:04:50.780 indulgence, the Catholic hating group, the Dodgers honored. 0.72

01:04:53.640 That's the guy with the gynecologist, Megan.

01:04:58.460 And we've reached out to the Dodgers. We reached out to the Dodgers for comment. They, they've

01:05:03.100 refused to respond, but it's like, it's worse than, you know, yes, they honored the sisters

01:05:07.360 of perpetual indulgence, which is a complete hate group, but they're also bringing up the

01:05:11.200 dude that the pervert that was in the girl's locker room at the YMCA out of all of the millions

01:05:17.020 in California, that's who they're choosing to honor. So not only is it a protected class,

01:05:21.620 but it's also a forced celebrated class and we've allowed it. We've allowed it. We've been

01:05:27.940 sleep at the wheel. And that's why, you know, the chance they've been a while we're just now

01:05:34.220 catching on. But when you look at where this ideology first started, you go back to Kinsey

01:05:38.660 America in the 1940s. It was based on fraud, perversion, and abuse, a bad seed. When it's 0.77

01:05:45.480 grown to maturity, it gives bad fruit. You don't get good fruit from a bad seed. And that's

01:05:51.380 reality is that we've been sleeping so long. We've allowed this tree to grow and grow and

01:05:56.600 grow. And now we're eating the fruit and we're realizing it's poison. What do we do? Do we

01:06:00.380 start pruning the branches? No, like the thing is disease. We're going to have to go back

01:06:06.200 and we're going to have to pull it out by its freaking roots. That's what we're going to

01:06:10.220 have to do. Why is there such a high percentage of inappropriate sexuality from, you know, these

01:06:19.480 parades? And in particular, we've seen these trans activists behave really inappropriately with the

01:06:24.740 bondage wear and so on. Like it was on display when I was in France for two weeks. And that that

01:06:31.120 trans activist who was invited to the White House and actually flashed his fake breasts.

01:06:39.040 This really got me like the level of disrespect and narcissism espoused here. It's it's not a one

01:06:46.440 off. And this man's apology, quote unquote, because the White House had to come out and say that was

01:06:54.080 inappropriate. They had to. They had no choice. The American people are not having it. Even their

01:06:58.840 fans didn't like this. And I'm dying to get your reaction to this, quote, apology from this trans 1.00

01:07:05.640 activist who goes by Rose Montoya. Here it is in SOT 27. Today, I need to apologize. I was invited by

01:07:14.940 the White House to attend a pride celebration with both President Biden and Dr. Biden. In a quick moment

01:07:22.060 of fleeting and overwhelming trans joy, I decided to do something unbecoming of a guest of the president 1.00

01:07:28.620 president. I have learned how powerful and just how impactful my actions are. It was also never my

01:07:36.760 intention to create a situation that would lead to harassment and harm of myself and others, nor for

01:07:44.960 trans joy, like my little moment of trans joy to be weaponized by vile people of the opposition.

01:07:54.180 I am unavailable for additional comments, and I will not be conducting interviews at this time.

01:08:00.100 Thank you so much for listening.

01:08:03.560 Is that a real joke?

01:08:05.560 Save your apology. Disgusting. Filth. And you know what? I've been in the White House several times,

01:08:11.160 and they you got to show a lot of documentation to get in that White House. They got to do a deep

01:08:17.560 research on who that person is. Did they not do their due diligence and find out that this person

01:08:23.660 is a sick human being? I mean, listen to what he said. He got trans joy out of doing that. 1.00

01:08:29.860 It's disgusting. He talked about how he in the longer clip saw he's a man posing as a woman,

01:08:39.040 and he saw women posing as men who had had their breasts chopped off, showing their naked chests with

01:08:47.360 their, you know, their double mastectomies, their unnecessary double mastectomies. And that inspired 0.88

01:08:53.620 him to share his trans joy of showing his breath. This is like one of the things that like, why is it 0.99

01:09:01.140 so objectionable? Why? Yes, it's disrespectful to the White House. But you know what? I'm sorry.

01:09:05.580 Actual women wouldn't behave this way if asked to the White House. I yes, there's a few I'm sure 1.00

01:09:12.600 you could find. But like you say you've been to the White House many times. You you're a former

01:09:16.880 beauty queen. Wouldn't even cross your mind to be so inappropriate. Like so he wants to walk in our

01:09:22.520 shoes, put on a dress and then represent us like that. That's that guy. Yeah, it's mental illness on

01:09:32.060 full display. And we need to start like going back to those words and saying that's what this is. It's

01:09:36.360 deranged mental illness. And it's part of a cult. I was thinking to you know, why was it that the

01:09:43.160 focus was all on Rose Boy, and not the women who were exposing their breasts? I mean, those were women 0.99

01:09:49.280 with with choice. What do you even call it? It's not a mastectomy. I mean, they chopped off their boobs 1.00

01:09:54.560 in favor of a cult ideology, but they were bearing their breasts. But it was all the focus on the dude 0.98

01:10:00.720 that had fake breasts. Like it was all of them. They were all it's all this gross, deranged mental 1.00

01:10:06.740 illness on full display at the White House. I mean, I'm glad that they're not allowed back. But

01:10:10.940 that's where this is headed. And I guarantee you mark my words now in five years, that will be

01:10:15.380 completely normalized. It will be completely acceptable. We are on such a slippery slope

01:10:20.340 that in five years from now, that will be the norm that will not be the exception.

01:10:25.520 The apology had all of the hallmarks of what this group does, right? Like play the victim,

01:10:31.800 even when you're the offender, even when the White House that invited you has said you behaved

01:10:36.520 inappropriately. You have to play the victim. You know, it's saying I certainly didn't intend to

01:10:41.660 create a situation that would lead to harassment or harm of myself or others just for expressing

01:10:47.040 trans joy. Didn't expect it to be weaponized by vile opponents. I mean, my real intention is to be

01:10:54.180 an educator and to articulate to others the importance and power of trans joy. You're not 0.98

01:11:01.340 our educator on anything, Rose, anything, nothing.

01:11:07.140 I want to know where Secret Service was. I mean, they're everywhere. Why didn't they take this dude

01:11:11.440 out? I mean, what was going to come next? Like, was he going to show his penis to everybody? And is

01:11:15.740 that OK? Like, right. How far was he going to take it?

01:11:18.300 Yeah. This whole trans privilege thing like has to stop. Like they don't want equality. They want 0.96

01:11:24.160 total domination. Their rights are super rights and we have no rights at all. We have to take it.

01:11:29.700 It is abuse and it is it is wrong. It is it is a war not only on women, but it is a war on our

01:11:36.960 children and it is a war on truth. And that's what we're saying here at the battle cry. We have to end

01:11:41.880 this war and we're going to win it. Hopefully, if you have. As going so fast, as for Rose being our

01:11:49.280 educator and our, you know, the person from whom we're going to learn these issues. Here's what I

01:11:53.680 have to say. It's a no. It's a no. It's a hard no. Hard no.

01:12:02.240 You guys, they made a button. They made a button for me on my little like serious radio panel where I

01:12:08.540 can just play that whenever I want. They know how much I love that clip. You know what? We should

01:12:12.740 invite Rose boy on our next episode with you, Megan, and we should debate him on this topic.

01:12:16.880 I would love to hear what he has to say. I would love it. And look, it's not my business to take

01:12:23.940 random private citizens and excoriate them. OK, but Rose put himself out there. Rose is the one who

01:12:30.060 showed up at the White House and made it about him and asked for attention by lifting up his shirt

01:12:34.720 and showing off these fake breasts and then putting out videos online trying to play the 1.00

01:12:39.920 victim. So, YouTube, we are well within our rights to respond to Rose as the aggressor in this fight. 0.74

01:12:47.740 And real women need to be offered the opportunity to respond to this bastardization of our sex and how 1.00

01:12:55.920 we behave. It's a lie. It's an offensive lie. Nailed it.

01:13:01.860 Let's let's let's talk about some other fallout that's happening, because while we're on the

01:13:08.120 subject of trans activists who don't accurately represent our sex, Dylan Mulvaney, Bud Light,

01:13:14.820 there's a new update. Bud Light still suffering mightily from sending that that Bud Light to

01:13:21.420 Dylan Mulvaney and Dylan Mulvaney basking in a bath with the Bud Light and so on. Worst quarter or week,

01:13:27.840 worst week of sales since the whole controversy began. People are not over it. They're not over it.

01:13:31.860 And the reason they're not over it is because there's been absolutely no responsibility taken.

01:13:38.120 And that was underscored in in droves this week when the Anheuser-Busch CEO, Brendan Whitworth,

01:13:45.620 went on CBS this morning and spoke out for the first time publicly. Listen to this exchange.

01:13:52.440 How and why did it did it go so off the rails? Because that certainly wasn't your intention when

01:13:59.620 you did one can to one person. It's been a challenging few weeks. And I think the conversation

01:14:06.240 surrounding Bud Light has moved away from beer and the conversation has become divisive. And Bud Light

01:14:12.700 really doesn't belong there. What was your intention? What were you all trying to do here? And you've done

01:14:16.800 this before these promotional campaigns. Yeah, it was just to be clear. It was it was a gift and it

01:14:22.480 wanted and it was and it was one can. Would you send this can to this one person again? There's a big

01:14:28.460 social conversation taking place right now and big brands are right in the middle of it. And so for us,

01:14:34.560 what we need to understand is deeply understand and appreciate is the consumer and what they want,

01:14:40.720 what what they care about and what they expect from from big brands. I asked you, would you do it

01:14:46.100 again? And people on the on the trans right side of things supporting that community want you to say

01:14:50.820 yes, of course, we want that fortitude. And people on the right would criticize you for saying yes. So

01:14:57.320 where are you on the issue? I mean, was this a mistake? You know, we Bud Light has supported LGBTQ

01:15:03.640 since 1998. So that's 25 years. And as we've said from the beginning, we'll continue to support the

01:15:10.180 communities and organizations that we've supported for decades. And over the last month, we've talked

01:15:14.260 to over 100,000 consumers and their feedback is very clear. What is it? The feedback is to reinforce

01:15:20.780 what Bud Light has always meant to them, which is good times, goodwill and easy enjoyment.

01:15:29.480 Oh, what a joke. What a joke. I love it that he's getting it from both sides. I hope they tank.

01:15:36.880 I am so disgusted with them that he didn't have the balls to come out there and say, you know what,

01:15:42.520 our customers, we're so sorry. We made a mistake. We honored a man wearing woman face and we will 0.99

01:15:48.060 never do it again. I mean, how stupid could he be? Yeah. How cowardly, right? How cowardly I've got

01:15:55.860 I handed to the CBS This Morning co-host, Tony, who said, where are you on the issue? He kept pressing

01:16:03.200 him. Where are you? Wasn't a mistake. And in just an act of cowardice, the CEO dodged. He can't. I mean,

01:16:10.420 with the sales where they are, they're what, 28 percent down, Brit. Why wouldn't he just look

01:16:15.320 into the camera and say, we screwed up and we're sorry? That's that's how strong the hold of these

01:16:22.340 activists on corporate America is. Yeah, I'll tell you what it is. We we have we're just coming

01:16:30.160 into the point of realizing that there is a strong divide in America on this issue and that middle

01:16:37.120 ground that was once here, right, where a brand like Budweiser or Target could kind of play both

01:16:43.620 sides, even Dodgers. Dodgers tried to do it where they said, you know, they had thousands protesting

01:16:48.340 outside when they honored the sisters of perpetual indulgence. And then they were like, hey, we're going

01:16:52.100 to do a Christian family night next week. So these companies thought that they could absolve

01:16:58.020 themselves from criticism by playing middle ground. Well, guess what? There is such a divide

01:17:02.760 now in America. It has become so clear that there is no longer middle ground on this issue.

01:17:07.520 And he's caught in that place the tension of you can't play both sides. So what are you going to do?

01:17:12.940 Are you going to play to the trans cult or are you going to play to their traditional Christian 0.98

01:17:18.820 values and what Bud Light always was an icon of America? And he's realizing right now and he's

01:17:24.440 probably on the forefront of it that there's no longer middle ground. It's been swept away.

01:17:28.740 I saw that Bud Light is trying to, you know, get people to buy their beer now to the point of

01:17:34.820 offering a rebate. And that rebate literally makes the Bud Light free. And I asked my followers

01:17:40.960 on social media, you know, what would it take for you to go get a pack of Bud Light? And the comments

01:17:46.040 coming back, I mean, it's just no one's interested. Like they're like they've become the queen of beer,

01:17:51.480 like never, never going to drink it again. But then the one comment that kept on coming up was

01:17:56.480 if they came out and made a genuine public apology and said, we screwed up, only men are men,

01:18:04.120 only women are women. And they honored that. And it was legitimate and it was genuine. I mean,

01:18:08.980 I would go like, I wouldn't even take the rebate. I would actually go pick up a pack of Bud Light

01:18:13.780 and I would drink it on air right now with you, Megan. Like I would pop it at whatever time we are.

01:18:21.260 In California. But Carrie, no. The reality is there's no longer middle ground.

01:18:26.880 Carrie and I will be drinking the Corona, whatever, something else. I know I'm still so mad at them.

01:18:32.480 And this guy, look, this is a former Navy SEAL. You know, where is it? Where's that courage now

01:18:36.500 when he needs it most? When we're at the heart of an issue that is dividing America,

01:18:41.420 the chance to stand up for half the population, Americans, American women, and he won't do it.

01:18:48.000 I think he should be fired. Really, this guy should be fired. We now know that they did fire

01:18:52.320 Alyssa, the one who was behind the campaign and her boss in marketing. That's official. They're no

01:18:58.000 longer there. It's no longer just a leave of options. This guy should be fired because he

01:19:01.720 doesn't get it. Carrie. Yeah. What's so funny is that now the LGBT mafia is like against him. So 0.83

01:19:09.220 he's he has them against him and then he has the conservatives against him. Like, how is he going

01:19:13.720 to get out of this hole? He has to. He should listen to us because we're much bigger. Women are 1.00

01:19:18.720 much bigger. Conservatives are much bigger. And honestly, our complaint is not ill founded. It's

01:19:24.260 not bully everybody. It's what you said. And when you said it was an endorsement of so many

01:19:30.720 problematic things that affect us, that affect our children, that affect our rights. In the midst of

01:19:35.020 the battle, you chose a side and you chose the wrong one. But now he's trying to dig his heels into

01:19:41.140 middle ground. There isn't middle ground. He will make his brand completely irrelevant because both

01:19:45.900 sides are going to hate him. He has to choose a side. And they I mean, they were just at a big old

01:19:51.500 pride parade where the guys were naked in front of kids. So it looks like he's choosing his side

01:19:56.700 without saying it out loud. But that's that's where big companies are in America are going to have to

01:20:02.600 realize like there's no longer middle ground. We've called that out. We've pulled that rug out.

01:20:06.300 You're going to have to choose a side now. You don't get to play to both sides.

01:20:09.900 I hadn't considered that. You're right. He's choosing a side without saying it out loud.

01:20:14.580 He I keep feeling like he's on our side, but he can't say it. And I think what we're starting to

01:20:20.200 see is he's not on our side. He's on their side. I can't say it. That's what's actually happening.

01:20:24.740 What he said in the interview was he goes on to say this is how he alleges that people see Bud Light

01:20:30.980 an American institution. It's really, to me, one degree of separation from the American flag.

01:20:38.620 Oh, no, he did not say that. Yes. Really?

01:20:45.400 What? Well, and especially when when the host asked him, like, would you send this can to Dylan

01:20:51.000 Mulvaney again? Why as a businessman would you not think? Absolutely not. That's just a business

01:20:58.680 decision that we're not willing to take. They're taking a stand and they're standing with them.

01:21:02.980 And it's very obvious at this point. It's true. And I have to say, like a normal responsible

01:21:08.160 follow up to his dodging would have been you clearly aren't answering the question. Why did

01:21:12.720 you get rid of those two top marketing executives? If you if you stand by the decision, if you would

01:21:16.800 do it again, why'd you fire them? Why are they on permanent leaves of absence? What happened there,

01:21:20.380 sir? Are you or are you not sorry? You know, do you understand how outrage people? There's a way of

01:21:25.260 doing the interview where you don't look like you're just rolling over. But instead, CBS,

01:21:29.400 you know, this morning just kept saying one can one time, one can one time, you know,

01:21:34.000 obviously trying to downplay it there. It's because they're protecting him. They don't want to push him

01:21:40.000 to have to say that possibly he does align with the conservatives who are pissed off about what he did.

01:21:47.180 So they NBC, the anchors protecting him CBS to not forcing his hand. Yeah, I guess you're I

01:21:55.660 challenge him to come on this show. I would pay top dollar to see. Let's do it. I'm on with Megan

01:22:04.160 Kelly. Let's go, Brendan. Come on, Brendan. That is the road to redemption, sir. Let's have it out.

01:22:11.260 You're a Navy SEAL. I'm sure you're tougher than I am. Oh, I would love it. I would love that.

01:22:14.880 Maybe not. We'll find out. All right. More with Carrie and Britt after the break as we talk about

01:22:19.000 the Girl Scouts and what they're now doing for Pride Month. Oh, stand by.

01:22:27.300 President Biden reacting just a short time ago to the Supreme Court ruling,

01:22:31.140 finding that it is unconstitutional to consider race now in university admissions.

01:22:36.220 The president outright questioning the legitimacy of the Supreme Court,

01:22:39.420 because when things don't go your way, you see, you have to delegitimize the entire institution

01:22:43.400 saying, quote, this is not a normal court. What's normal, sir? Someone who does exactly

01:22:48.540 what you want. That's what normal. This is disgusting. That's disgusting coming from the

01:22:53.400 president of the United States. He's out of line saying we cannot let this decision be the last

01:22:59.200 word. Well, you can, because under Marbury versus Madison, the Supreme Court gets the final say on what

01:23:04.920 law is. Take a listen. We cannot let this decision be the last word. I want to emphasize we cannot let

01:23:12.440 this decision be the last word. While the court can render a decision, it cannot change what America

01:23:18.280 stands for. Truth is, we all know it. Discrimination still exists in America. Discrimination still exists in

01:23:26.500 America. Discrimination still exists in America. Oh, my God. Today's decision does not change that.

01:23:32.420 The congressional Blackhawk has said the Supreme Court has thrown into question its own legitimacy.

01:23:37.000 Is this a rogue court?

01:23:42.100 This is not a normal court.

01:23:44.620 Should there be term limits for the justice system? How dare he?

01:23:50.060 How dare he? So unifying. Remember, President Unity? He may be getting more disappointment tomorrow,

01:23:57.080 by the way. The high court's expected to release its decision on the president's student loan

01:24:00.300 forgiveness program, which is really just a wealth transfer. People like me who went to college and

01:24:05.820 went to law school and student loans. Well, the truckers are going to have to pay off those bills

01:24:09.320 now. I paid for my own. But that's what's going to happen. You were you were smart. You were sound.

01:24:13.680 You chose to watch your finances, not take out these loans. You're going to suffer. You're the

01:24:17.040 sucker. You're going to have to pay for the loans of the people who did who don't really want to pay it

01:24:20.760 back. That's what he addressed unconstitutionally. Charles C.W. Cook has been calling for impeachment

01:24:26.740 proceedings against him because of this. And that is the big last decision we're waiting for from

01:24:32.060 SCOTUS. We expect it tomorrow morning. We'll have it fully covered for you back with me now.

01:24:35.720 Activists, moms and founders of the battle cry. Find it on social media and now Spotify as a podcast.

01:24:41.860 Carrie Prejean Bowler and Brit Mayer. Can you believe the nerve of this guy? It's an it's not a

01:24:47.820 normal Supreme Court. It's not normal because they're not doing what he wants them to do on just

01:24:53.740 these radical issues from gender to race. Carrie. I mean, it's what's not normal is to have a

01:24:59.820 president of the United States dismiss an entire body of the Constitution as abnormal since they're

01:25:06.060 not doing what he wants. Mm hmm. There is nothing normal about Joe Biden at all and any of his policies.

01:25:12.680 So let's not talk about normal Joe Biden. Nothing you do is normal. You are not normal. So let's not

01:25:19.120 go there with the Supreme Court justices. It's offensive. This is the same guy who said Russia

01:25:25.280 is going to lose the war in Iraq the other day. I'm like he does. He he wants to second guess some 0.84

01:25:32.040 of the brightest minds that we have in America today or sitting in particular in that six person

01:25:36.360 majority in the Supreme Court. OK. All right. Let's see how that goes. The whole thing is just

01:25:41.540 maddening. I want to make a girl scouts in one second. Yeah, go ahead. Let me I wanted to I'm so

01:25:47.260 glad that this just broke because this the decision and the policies they actually personally affected

01:25:54.120 my family and my very, very close family members. I'm going to keep them anonymous. But

01:26:00.420 out here in California, there is a point system that you have to achieve in order to be accepted

01:26:07.400 into nursing school. And one of my very close family members was in, you know, had kind of gone

01:26:14.240 through a rough passion life and single parent and was getting life back on track and always had a

01:26:21.600 lifelong dream to be a nurse and went through with a daughter, went through the whole process to of

01:26:28.720 college to get all of those pre certifications in order to go into nursing school. Just was soaring 0.96

01:26:35.880 in GPA and at the point of admissions into nursing school was carrying close to a 4.0. And I have

01:26:43.600 the chancellor's office committee policy right here in my hands because when this news broke, I went back

01:26:50.520 and printed it out because I remember being so outraged when this person was given this point

01:26:57.560 system. It the deck was completely stacked against ability to be a nurse unless you qualified based on

01:27:11.540 a point system that wasn't based on merit. It was based on life experience and disability, low income,

01:27:20.820 low family income, first generation of family to attend college, disadvantages that are social or educational

01:27:26.820 and environment, difficult personal and family situations, a refugee, not proficient in English. 1.00

01:27:33.140 It goes on and on. And these 20 points, even with a 4.0 GPA and with everything else checked,

01:27:42.520 soaring, being able to proficiently provide as a nurse, this person would never have been able to

01:27:49.580 be admitted into a nursing school in California and actually had to move to Tennessee where it was 0.57

01:27:54.740 merit based on GPA and an essay and community service. And now people like you won't get the care of this

01:28:01.600 person if you exactly don't have to go to the hospital for any reason. That's that's exactly right. And what

01:28:06.220 we've seen is a flood of people leaving California because of these policies that are systemically embedded

01:28:12.080 to prevent people who, based on their character and merit, should be able to get into these positions that

01:28:19.140 can't. So I'm so thankful for this ruling today. I don't think it went far enough, but I think that

01:28:23.520 it's a start. And of course, the the cartel, the university cartel is going to continue to fight

01:28:29.040 against it. And Biden is going to say his things to fight against it. But I am so thankful that we

01:28:34.040 are trying to correct course and to be a nation that once again focuses on the content of of your

01:28:41.880 character and the quality of a person versus their skin color. Yeah. Amen to that. 1.00

01:28:47.920 I want to I want to round back because we talked a minute ago about how these trans activists try to 0.94

01:28:55.320 shut down debate. You know, they don't want cases going up to the Supreme Court. They don't want us

01:28:58.980 having this discussion. They will try to censor it all social media and elsewhere. And now it's turned

01:29:04.660 into an official push. Glad has joined with all of these big celebrities. You got Alyssa Milano. I don't

01:29:14.580 know if she's a big celebrity, but there are some like Ariana Grande, Shawn Mendes, Mark Jacobs, Demi

01:29:20.180 Lovato, Haley Baldwin, Bieber, Jamie Lee Curtis and others joining with glad now publishing a letter

01:29:27.860 this week signed by over 250 celebs and community leaders urging big tech to, quote, address hate

01:29:33.720 directed at LGBTQ people. They they want to shut down conversations like this one. That's what they

01:29:38.960 want. Look to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok and Twitter. And they're saying we don't we want you

01:29:44.340 to tackle accounts and postings that perpetuate anti LGBTQ extremist hate. What is that? Anything

01:29:50.720 that dehumanizes or has a, quote, hateful attack on prominent transgender public figures and influencers

01:29:57.160 and anti transgender hate speech, including targeted misgendering, dead naming and hate driven

01:30:04.960 tropes. They don't look the intentional nastiness. OK, you can be a platform that says I'm not going

01:30:12.260 to allow that. Right. Just like intentional nastiness. But in the context of the debate we're

01:30:16.800 trying to have here where we're standing up for our girls in the locker rooms and our girls in in our

01:30:22.160 bathrooms, there's just a case out of the UK where it came out that a school had to call in police over

01:30:27.100 allegations that female pupils were sexually assaulted in its gender neutral bathrooms. Teenage boy

01:30:33.480 arrested over four allegations of serious sexual assault. We're trying to stand up for those

01:30:37.680 girls. These social media companies better listen to us because honestly, ladies, if they try to shut 1.00

01:30:44.060 you down on Spotify or shut me down on YouTube or what have you, it's truly war. It's on. It can't be

01:30:50.600 allowed that just because you have glad with you or Demi Lovato or Haley Bieber, you win. Right.

01:30:57.900 Because it's like the women who don't have well-known names who are in the trenches fighting for their 0.91

01:31:02.800 daughters who YouTube or TikTok or whoever is likely to ignore.

01:31:08.200 Yeah, this is what they want, Megan. I mean, truth is now considered hateful. Why is that?

01:31:14.100 What is the objective? You know, what is hateful telling the truth? I mean, that's where our society

01:31:20.120 is going, is that if you say there is male and there is female and that's it, you cannot transition

01:31:26.520 from a boy to a girl or a girl to a boy. They will shut you down and they will say that's hateful.

01:31:32.340 That's where we're at as a society. People better wake up.

01:31:37.200 I haven't been able to figure out what to call exactly like a trans woman, but I've

01:31:41.180 kind of been settling on a man masquerading as a woman. That's what's actually happening.

01:31:45.800 Yes, that is so accurate. The question I keep asking, Bruce Jenner and I have been back and

01:31:51.980 forth in conversation over this and he's refused to give me an answer. But my question to him

01:31:56.520 repeatedly has been, at what point does a man become a woman and is no longer simply a man in

01:32:03.380 disguise? What is the objective standard? There's no transition. Without that, it's foolish fairy 0.97

01:32:10.300 tales. I mean, and then we're all being forced to make believe reality like it. See, now it's a

01:32:15.340 fairy tale. I will call Bruce Caitlin. People change their names. I'll be respectful of their

01:32:19.800 name change, whatever. But I am not going to say he's a she. It's just that's I've gotten to that 1.00

01:32:24.780 point. Thanks in part to you, ladies. We've talked about this. But, you know, that not calling

01:32:30.640 a he a she cannot be considered hateful in the context of this debate. And that's one of the things

01:32:36.180 that they're, you know, targeted misgendering right now, like exactly what you just did. This is what

01:32:41.520 they want banned from the discussion entirely. And it's just not fair to shut down one side of the

01:32:47.280 debate altogether. All right. Let me get to Girl Scouts because they're a hot mess. They've decided

01:32:53.320 to create a a badge, a badge, a patch. It's called for girls who attend pride parades or complete

01:33:04.660 LGBTQ themed activities, including protests. Some of these pride parades or protests by the trans

01:33:12.620 community. You can teach you to Girl Scouts. You had to like sew back in my day to get a patch

01:33:20.120 or like create fire in the woods. What the hell? Now you can get it for going to see the naked 0.98

01:33:25.220 cyclist in Seattle. What do you make of it? Yeah, exactly. Does the patch have a naked cyclist on it?

01:33:30.360 I it's what I don't know what it has other than maybe the word woman with the X through it. You

01:33:38.060 know, is that how you get it? Yeah. Look, it's a rainbow. It's a rainbow patch. You cannot make it

01:33:43.500 up. I'm surprised that there's still a lot of calm girls. That's a good point. What's a girl? Good 0.99

01:33:50.760 point. Mm hmm. Yeah. Just change it to Girl Scouts. If you're forcing little girls to go to 0.99

01:33:56.600 these or not forcing, I guess I shouldn't say forcing. But if you're encouraging little girls 0.72

01:34:01.100 to go to these parades to see naked men on display, then just call it what it is. Just say we're the

01:34:06.180 Groomer Scouts. Now we've changed. You can still keep the GS. It's just Groomer Scouts.

01:34:10.480 Be honest. You know, Ali London, he's been following these issues so well on on Twitter. And he had a

01:34:17.740 tweet pointing out that the something called the LGBT Foundation, which is one of these advocacy

01:34:22.980 groups, is now advising that the appropriate language to use if you support trans people or

01:34:30.380 non-binary people when talking about a vagina is, quote, bonus hole. Bonus hole. It's important to 0.97

01:34:39.920 check which words someone would prefer that you use. This is so disgusting. These are the people

01:34:46.640 petitioning YouTube and TikTok and, you know, Mark Zuckerberg over at Facebook. These people want

01:34:53.120 to reduce us to something called a bonus hole. And then they want to silence us when we get a little

01:34:58.840 mad about it, Carrie. Yeah, this is where I mean, my mind just is blown at this. It's crazy how they are

01:35:07.780 literally wanting to eliminate women completely. Think about it. They don't want to call us mothers. 0.76

01:35:13.140 They want to call us birthing people. You know, they don't want to call, um, women, you know,

01:35:20.240 it's just absolutely. Or menstruators, uterus havers. 0.81

01:35:25.340 Like it literally hurts. But we have to like, this is a psychological warfare that's going on

01:35:30.340 because it hurts my brain. I can't even speak right now because I'm so angry at this.

01:35:34.620 Okay. Like this is what I think. Saul Alinsky in rules for radicals said he who controls the

01:35:41.220 language controls the masses and we'd have to refuse to live by lies and refuse to use their 1.00

01:35:47.520 language of lies. Nope. It's not a bonus hole. It's a vagina. A bonus hole is what I got when I 1.00

01:35:50.980 got my second hole up here. That's, that's my only bonus hole right here is that little earring right

01:35:55.480 there. Okay, guys. And we're going to, we're going to refuse it. We're going to say, nope, men can't be 0.88

01:35:59.380 women. We're not going to use trans. There's no such thing. You cannot transition genders. We're not 1.00

01:36:03.800 going to use the term transgender because it's a fairy tale, but he who controls the language 1.00

01:36:08.640 controls the masses. And so we're going to have to reject all of the language if we want to 0.97

01:36:13.260 regain a sense of normalcy in America. And they want to beat you down to the point where you just

01:36:18.680 obey and go along with it. Thanks for coming on until the next time.

01:36:25.340 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:36:33.800 Bye.

01:36:52.960 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 29, 2023

Supreme Court's Seismic Affirmative Action Ruling and More, with Jason Riley, Heather Mac Donald, Carrie Prejean, and Britt Mayer ｜ Ep. 578

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