The Megyn Kelly Show - The Cost of ＂Transition,＂ and Detransitioners Fighting Back, with Mary Margaret Olohan and Luka Hein

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00:01:01.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.300 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:13.080 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.760 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:16.520 Joining me today, a reporter who has done a very deep dive

00:01:20.140 and thorough one into the world of radical gender ideology

00:01:24.500 to expose the truth of what's happening in our culture today.

00:01:28.940 She talked with several young girls who have detransitioned

00:01:33.000 after trying to transition to boys.

00:01:36.420 And the girls are now calling attention through this reporter

00:01:40.600 to the lack of safeguards, formal processes,

00:01:43.320 and lack of medical protections when it comes to minors

00:01:47.360 making life-altering decisions.

00:01:50.200 Later, we'll be joined by one of the detransitioners

00:01:52.240 featured in the book.

00:01:53.340 But we begin with Mary Margaret Olihan,

00:01:56.820 a senior reporter for The Daily Signal

00:01:58.760 and author of the new book,

00:02:00.900 Detrans, True Stories of Escaping the Gender Ideology Cult,

00:02:05.700 which is out later this month

00:02:07.060 and available for pre-order right now.

00:02:09.580 So, welcome to the show, Mary Margaret.

00:02:13.700 Great to see you, Megyn.

00:02:14.760 It's so fun to be here.

00:02:16.880 So, thank you for writing this book.

00:02:19.060 What was the reason?

00:02:21.640 Like, what were you seeing

00:02:22.660 that drew you to these people's stories?

00:02:26.760 Well, I think it was the stories themselves

00:02:28.800 that made me want to write this in the first place.

00:02:31.880 I've been covering gender ideology for several years now,

00:02:35.400 and, you know, culture issues in general

00:02:37.000 has always been my beat.

00:02:38.220 And a couple years ago,

00:02:39.900 I started seeing more and more

00:02:41.760 of these detransitioners popping up online.

00:02:44.460 And, you know, at the time,

00:02:45.540 we weren't really calling them detransitioners.

00:02:47.660 And I remember my editors and I were like,

00:02:49.680 oh my gosh, we've been wondering

00:02:50.800 if this was going to happen.

00:02:52.240 So, we were excited to see

00:02:54.020 that people were speaking out about it

00:02:55.520 because, you know, it wasn't really that common yet.

00:02:58.380 And so, one day, as I was following

00:03:00.260 a bunch of these different people online

00:03:02.120 and trying to get a handle on their stories,

00:03:04.400 I noticed they were going to have

00:03:05.560 a Twitter Spaces event.

00:03:06.660 And I tuned in.

00:03:08.060 I was the only reporter on it.

00:03:09.380 It was just a whole bunch of people

00:03:10.640 who regretted their hormonal transitions.

00:03:13.040 And I was living in this really

00:03:15.320 ratchet little apartment in Arlington at the time.

00:03:17.800 So, I remember I was making dinner

00:03:18.860 while I was listening.

00:03:20.440 And, oh my gosh, Megan,

00:03:21.700 I just, I will never forget what they were saying.

00:03:24.220 They're describing these horrific experiences

00:03:27.240 that they've endured from hormones.

00:03:29.220 So, for example, the women taking testosterone

00:03:31.760 and the men taking estrogen.

00:03:33.720 Their voices didn't match anymore.

00:03:35.480 They were describing how their emotions

00:03:37.880 had been messed with,

00:03:39.480 the physical features, you know,

00:03:41.220 hair loss, bone density change,

00:03:43.760 muscle atrophy, sexual dysfunction,

00:03:46.700 all these different side effects

00:03:48.580 from the hormones that they had had

00:03:50.240 no idea would be occurring

00:03:52.240 and no one had told them about.

00:03:54.320 And so, as I listened to these stories,

00:03:56.360 I thought, oh my gosh,

00:03:58.200 I need to write about this.

00:03:59.360 But I was a little bit younger at the time.

00:04:01.620 I didn't totally know how to handle it

00:04:03.340 because, you know,

00:04:03.900 all these people are anonymous, first of all.

00:04:05.940 So, I didn't really know

00:04:07.500 how to get a grasp on their stories.

00:04:09.840 And as the couple years went by

00:04:11.680 and more and more detransitioners

00:04:14.120 started speaking out

00:04:15.300 and I had the opportunity to write a book,

00:04:17.560 I immediately thought,

00:04:18.720 this is what I want to do.

00:04:20.020 I want to tell reported stories

00:04:21.920 of detransitioners in their words,

00:04:23.840 their experiences.

00:04:24.920 So, someone who picks this up off the shelf

00:04:27.120 will read it and think,

00:04:28.580 I don't care what that reporter thinks,

00:04:30.820 but these stories are horrific

00:04:32.580 and I don't want anything like that

00:04:34.280 to ever happen to a child again.

00:04:36.180 So, that's my goal with this book

00:04:37.680 and I hope that that's what will happen.

00:04:40.820 It's so infuriating

00:04:42.080 because the way they push

00:04:43.740 the puberty blockers today

00:04:45.060 and the social transitioning

00:04:46.260 as though it's a nothing

00:04:47.920 without disclosing

00:04:49.860 the very serious, severe path

00:04:52.660 you're putting your kid on.

00:04:54.240 Social transitioning will lead

00:04:55.920 in virtually all cases

00:04:57.180 to puberty blockers

00:04:58.360 and cross-sex hormones

00:05:00.020 in virtually all cases.

00:05:01.820 So, it is a very big deal

00:05:03.440 if you socially transition

00:05:04.540 your child,

00:05:05.200 meaning start calling her a him

00:05:06.900 or by a male name

00:05:08.020 or let them start dressing

00:05:09.800 as the opposite sex.

00:05:11.200 And that's what these schools

00:05:11.960 are doing in private

00:05:13.520 without the parents' knowledge

00:05:15.560 as we just discussed.

00:05:17.340 Miguel Cardona falsely saying,

00:05:20.340 oh, it's up to our investigators

00:05:21.360 whether they want to investigate.

00:05:22.380 Well, weirdly, they don't at all.

00:05:25.620 In fact, these policies are in place

00:05:27.280 at school after school

00:05:28.340 and they don't give a damn.

00:05:30.240 So, the social transitioning happens.

00:05:32.100 But can you just spend a minute

00:05:33.460 on the physical ramifications?

00:05:36.840 Because this, I've seen this happen

00:05:38.920 with young girls

00:05:40.140 who are just confused about something

00:05:43.020 or they have autism

00:05:44.640 or they have ADHD.

00:05:46.680 And before you know it,

00:05:48.100 they're on testosterone

00:05:49.260 and it has some very dark effects

00:05:53.140 on the body.

00:05:54.260 And I do want to get graphic

00:05:55.300 because it's important

00:05:56.180 that people hear it

00:05:57.000 because they won't tell you this on CBS.

00:05:59.900 No, they won't.

00:06:00.680 And for that reason,

00:06:01.580 I'm going to share something

00:06:02.520 that I learned about

00:06:03.440 from one of the young female

00:06:05.220 deep transitioners in my book.

00:06:07.340 She told me about bottom growth

00:06:09.600 and it's horrible

00:06:11.240 and it's definitely TMI to share this.

00:06:14.680 But when you take testosterone

00:06:16.680 as a girl,

00:06:17.880 it has an effect on your genitalia.

00:06:20.440 And what these pro-trans websites

00:06:21.940 will tell you

00:06:22.820 is that you're going to grow

00:06:24.620 male genitalia.

00:06:26.060 You're going to grow a penis.

00:06:27.400 Well, obviously, that's impossible.

00:06:29.320 That's never going to happen.

00:06:30.460 You're a woman.

00:06:31.200 You're not going to ever grow a penis.

00:06:33.160 But when you're taking testosterone,

00:06:35.280 it is going to affect your genitalia.

00:06:37.660 And so things are going to enlarge in

00:06:39.980 and they're going to become

00:06:41.060 very uncomfortable.

00:06:42.360 It's not a good thing in any way.

00:06:44.760 It's uncomfortable.

00:06:45.680 It's painful.

00:06:46.940 One of the young women in my book

00:06:48.720 described it to me.

00:06:50.040 She said she couldn't even wear underwear

00:06:51.340 because it was so painful.

00:06:53.480 And if you look on these pro-trans websites,

00:06:55.480 they'll give you graphics

00:06:56.300 and try and show you the progression.

00:06:58.960 It's a bull-faced lie.

00:07:00.740 They'll show you graphics of pictures

00:07:02.160 of your supposed male genitalia growing.

00:07:04.980 It doesn't.

00:07:05.520 That's not how it happens.

00:07:06.680 It grows a little bit

00:07:07.480 and it's painful

00:07:08.140 and it doesn't go back.

00:07:10.780 But that's just one of the lies

00:07:12.940 that these girls are being sold.

00:07:14.660 Another one is that

00:07:16.620 the testosterone has an effect on your body,

00:07:20.440 but it's not going to ultimately

00:07:21.620 make you look like a man.

00:07:23.000 It's going to alter your appearance.

00:07:24.780 You're going to lose hair

00:07:26.520 where you might want it.

00:07:27.920 You're going to grow hair

00:07:29.060 where you might not want it.

00:07:31.080 It's going to be thicker.

00:07:32.400 Your bone density is going to change.

00:07:34.500 Your voice is going to change.

00:07:35.940 You're going to lose the ability

00:07:37.340 to scream for a lot of girls,

00:07:39.440 which is terrifying,

00:07:40.400 especially because many of them

00:07:41.840 are victims of sexual assaults.

00:07:44.420 One girl told me

00:07:45.440 that she lost the ability to sing.

00:07:47.900 This was Prisha,

00:07:48.680 one of the girls in the book.

00:07:50.160 Prisha had a really high operatic voice.

00:07:52.400 She liked to sing Phantom of the Opera.

00:07:54.140 Once she started taking testosterone,

00:07:56.040 she just started realizing

00:07:56.960 she was losing the ability.

00:07:58.500 It almost reminds me, Megan,

00:08:00.320 of The Little Mermaid

00:08:01.620 when the girl's voice gets stolen

00:08:03.620 by Ursula, the bad witch.

00:08:05.540 That was what I thought of

00:08:06.600 when Prisha was telling me this story.

00:08:08.280 And in the same dramatic, horrifying way,

00:08:12.160 you know, she wants to sing

00:08:13.280 and she can't anymore.

00:08:14.300 She wants to scream

00:08:15.260 and she can't anymore.

00:08:17.500 And these are things

00:08:18.760 that as they're taking the testosterone,

00:08:20.800 they're still being told

00:08:21.860 that this is a good thing,

00:08:23.560 that, you know,

00:08:24.140 they're on their way to transition.

00:08:25.800 They can surgically transition soon.

00:08:27.980 And so they're thinking,

00:08:28.780 OK, well, this is kind of freaking me out,

00:08:30.520 but I'm going to continue with this

00:08:32.000 because I'm told

00:08:33.340 that this is good for me.

00:08:34.940 But it's unsettling.

00:08:36.960 It's disturbing.

00:08:38.280 And another another aspect of it

00:08:40.100 that's not talked about a ton

00:08:41.760 is the emotional changes

00:08:43.720 that a lot of these girls

00:08:44.840 experience on testosterone.

00:08:46.920 Helena describes at length

00:08:48.500 how she would just go

00:08:49.380 into these rages

00:08:50.300 that she had never experienced before,

00:08:52.740 just testosterone rage.

00:08:54.280 It got to the point

00:08:55.180 where her dad would have her

00:08:56.360 go outside and chop wood

00:08:57.520 so that she could have

00:08:58.520 some kind of some kind of outlet

00:09:01.460 to get all this pent up rage out.

00:09:04.100 She'd never experienced

00:09:05.180 anything like this before.

00:09:06.280 Similarly, she said

00:09:07.620 she had this intense sexual urges

00:09:09.660 that she had never had before.

00:09:11.640 And what a bunch of these girls

00:09:12.620 likened it to was going it

00:09:14.460 going through puberty as a boy.

00:09:16.340 But when you're not a boy

00:09:18.220 and no one is going to be able

00:09:20.260 to understand that.

00:09:21.600 And you also aren't having

00:09:23.060 a full male puberty

00:09:24.000 because that's never going to happen

00:09:25.620 because you're a girl.

00:09:26.560 So just all these really disturbing

00:09:30.020 emotional and physical effects

00:09:32.280 on these girls' bodies.

00:09:34.740 And, you know, for the boys

00:09:36.260 that take estrogen,

00:09:37.940 it's a whole other animal.

00:09:39.400 You know, the fat redistribution

00:09:40.680 happens for both, right?

00:09:42.180 You know, you take testosterone,

00:09:43.500 your body's going to redistribute

00:09:45.280 your fat.

00:09:45.820 But for a boy taking estrogen,

00:09:48.500 that's all that.

00:09:50.040 That feels very weird physically

00:09:51.680 to have your fat redistribute

00:09:53.280 to your hips

00:09:54.580 and more to your chest.

00:09:57.040 The hair loss is significant

00:09:59.280 for the boys who are on estrogen.

00:10:01.040 The voice changes.

00:10:02.680 One guy who was on estrogen

00:10:04.020 told me that he felt like

00:10:05.660 he had the ability to multitask.

00:10:07.720 I don't know if he himself said

00:10:09.320 he's not sure if that was

00:10:10.080 in his head or not,

00:10:10.920 but it was something that he felt like

00:10:12.340 he was having a little bit

00:10:13.840 more access to,

00:10:15.200 which I thought was interesting.

00:10:16.800 But all of these effects,

00:10:20.200 you know, they they come

00:10:22.260 with the physical effects

00:10:24.020 that are ultimately very draining.

00:10:26.140 And then some of these people

00:10:27.640 told me that, for example,

00:10:28.740 when you stab yourself with a needle

00:10:30.060 to give yourself testosterone,

00:10:31.580 they started developing

00:10:32.720 a really severe aversion

00:10:34.100 to doing that combined

00:10:35.780 with all the effects

00:10:36.920 that they knew were coming from it.

00:10:38.620 And then just the needle itself,

00:10:40.640 they were realizing

00:10:41.620 that this act was just

00:10:43.380 such an aversion to them

00:10:44.540 that they had to stop.

00:10:46.660 The guy who was multitasking,

00:10:48.880 like, did he also become

00:10:50.380 a bad driver?

00:10:51.120 Did he, like, what's in that shot?

00:10:56.440 I know.

00:10:57.960 The things that you're outlining,

00:10:59.960 I've heard many of these,

00:11:01.460 and it's dark.

00:11:02.480 I remember Abigail Schreier,

00:11:03.840 when she had launched her book,

00:11:05.160 we talked about irreversible damage,

00:11:07.040 and she was saying,

00:11:07.840 forgive me, audience,

00:11:08.920 but basically, at best,

00:11:10.600 what a girl could grow

00:11:11.580 out of her clitoris

00:11:13.360 is a baby carrot,

00:11:15.340 something akin to that.

00:11:16.500 Now, nobody ever is ever

00:11:18.720 going to want to have

00:11:19.760 a sexual interlude with that

00:11:21.600 other than a freak.

00:11:23.380 I mean, so you're freakifying yourself,

00:11:25.120 not disclosed in the,

00:11:27.040 it's just a harmless

00:11:28.060 social transition slash pause

00:11:30.100 where you're definitely

00:11:30.720 going to go into cross-sex hormones,

00:11:31.960 and this could happen to you.

00:11:33.660 The other thing is the boys,

00:11:36.920 okay, so let me stay on the girls

00:11:37.820 for one more second.

00:11:38.460 So they stop their puberty

00:11:40.200 where all this estrogen

00:11:41.780 is about to flood their bodies.

00:11:43.920 That's what's supposed to happen.

00:11:45.040 And instead of that happening,

00:11:47.980 they lose all that estrogen,

00:11:49.440 and there are serious repercussions

00:11:51.340 for bone growth and strength

00:11:54.480 for these girls.

00:11:56.080 There have been tests

00:11:56.740 that IQs go down

00:11:58.280 for girls and boys

00:11:59.480 who take these puberty blockers

00:12:01.460 and then into the hormones.

00:12:03.360 And then on the boys' side,

00:12:04.960 when they take the puberty blockers,

00:12:06.560 they freeze their penis development

00:12:09.500 into a little boy's penis.

00:12:12.340 And so if they detransition

00:12:14.640 it's something that

00:12:16.140 they're basically stuck with,

00:12:17.580 like a micropenis

00:12:19.140 in a lot of the cases.

00:12:20.600 And so these girls

00:12:22.000 and boys don't know,

00:12:23.980 they have no idea

00:12:25.180 that's what they're taking on.

00:12:27.920 Right.

00:12:28.460 And that's something

00:12:29.420 that I found incredibly upsetting

00:12:31.660 as I was writing this book

00:12:33.100 because, you know,

00:12:33.760 Megan, this was emotional.

00:12:34.920 I spent so many hours

00:12:35.860 on the phone

00:12:36.420 talking to all of these people,

00:12:38.200 and some of them

00:12:39.580 would cry with me

00:12:40.480 as they were sharing

00:12:41.160 some of these really

00:12:41.760 vulnerable, intimate stories.

00:12:43.260 I would cry with them.

00:12:44.340 And I have a lot of siblings,

00:12:45.620 so just imagining

00:12:47.400 these young people

00:12:48.400 going through these things

00:12:49.440 and being lied to in this way

00:12:50.760 is just so infuriating.

00:12:52.920 But for example,

00:12:53.980 Chloe Cole had never had sex

00:12:55.940 or had any kind of sexual encounter

00:12:57.560 when she made the decision

00:12:58.620 to go on puberty blockers

00:13:00.300 or begin her transition.

00:13:01.880 And that's mind-boggling

00:13:03.680 that all of this

00:13:05.600 is being shoved on someone

00:13:06.880 who's never had any kind of

00:13:08.340 sexual intimate moment before.

00:13:10.700 How is a little girl

00:13:13.740 supposed to know any of that

00:13:15.800 when she has never even

00:13:17.080 held hands with a boy?

00:13:18.880 It just, it's infuriating.

00:13:19.580 Oh my God, that is such a good point.

00:13:21.460 That's such a good point.

00:13:22.400 She hasn't even had her first kiss

00:13:23.940 and they literally chopped off

00:13:25.760 Chloe's breasts.

00:13:27.240 They did.

00:13:27.840 And when she began taking testosterone

00:13:30.840 and hormones,

00:13:31.860 she had no idea

00:13:33.000 whether she wanted to have kids.

00:13:34.580 She was a little girl.

00:13:35.480 She hadn't really thought about it.

00:13:36.480 She hadn't really thought about

00:13:37.160 whether she wanted to breastfeed.

00:13:38.620 She hadn't really thought about

00:13:39.500 whether she wanted to have a family.

00:13:41.100 You know, these are all things

00:13:42.240 that we might think about.

00:13:43.560 But as a little girl,

00:13:44.740 it kind of, it's not

00:13:45.500 it's not on the mind all the time.

00:13:47.820 And something that I wanted to bring up

00:13:49.560 in relation to that very topic is

00:13:51.360 because I found this really fascinating.

00:13:53.800 Chloe and I kind of deep dived

00:13:55.180 into her reasons

00:13:57.180 for being interested

00:13:58.100 in transgender ideology

00:13:59.240 in the first place.

00:14:00.780 And something that I think

00:14:02.320 a lot of us in the political world

00:14:03.920 don't have a good grasp on,

00:14:05.820 but I'm sure you do, Megan,

00:14:06.920 as a woman is the effect

00:14:08.720 that Instagram has on girls

00:14:10.720 and their perceptions

00:14:12.180 of womanhood and femininity.

00:14:14.200 So Chloe was telling me

00:14:15.020 she was like 13

00:14:15.900 when she got on Instagram

00:14:16.880 for the first time.

00:14:17.960 And she's seeing

00:14:18.940 all these depictions

00:14:19.780 of womanhood, you know,

00:14:20.700 these like very sexy,

00:14:21.980 voluptuous, sensual women

00:14:23.440 who have millions of men

00:14:25.360 and they're following

00:14:26.140 and they get so much male affirmation

00:14:28.280 for the basically soft porn photos

00:14:30.880 that they posted themselves all day.

00:14:33.060 And so she's seeing

00:14:33.900 these representations of womanhood

00:14:35.440 and thinking, I don't think

00:14:37.260 I can be that.

00:14:38.180 That's that's very daunting.

00:14:39.680 I don't know how to do that.

00:14:40.600 I don't look like that.

00:14:41.860 And then at the same time

00:14:43.160 as a little girl on the Internet,

00:14:45.080 she's being exposed to pornography,

00:14:46.820 which is something that

00:14:48.160 many of the detransitioners

00:14:49.480 I talked to said

00:14:50.340 they were exposed to at a young age.

00:14:52.300 And so in the pornography,

00:14:53.560 we know that women are degraded

00:14:55.580 and humiliated and treating

00:14:56.780 in a really horrible fashion.

00:14:58.700 So she's seeing on the one hand,

00:15:00.560 the women treated horribly

00:15:01.640 in these scenarios.

00:15:02.540 And on the other hand,

00:15:04.040 these like really aggressively

00:15:05.180 sexual depictions of women

00:15:06.600 on social media.

00:15:07.820 And she's thinking,

00:15:08.920 A, I don't want that.

00:15:10.580 The depictions in pornography.

00:15:12.580 One girl told me

00:15:13.280 that doesn't look fun,

00:15:14.560 looks fun for the guys,

00:15:15.440 not for the girls.

00:15:16.260 And B, I don't think

00:15:17.800 I can ever achieve that.

00:15:19.020 I can't be that sexy.

00:15:20.280 I don't know how to do it.

00:15:21.720 And so when you have that

00:15:23.280 combined with these ideologists saying,

00:15:25.860 oh, you don't feel like you fit in.

00:15:27.140 You feel lonely.

00:15:28.020 You don't really like

00:15:28.860 hanging out with girls.

00:15:29.560 Obviously, you're a boy.

00:15:31.400 You're trans.

00:15:32.740 That's just, it's too easy.

00:15:34.500 It's too simple.

00:15:35.600 If you say,

00:15:36.340 if you think you're trans,

00:15:37.300 you're trans.

00:15:38.060 That's it.

00:15:38.300 Exactly.

00:15:38.800 You have the thought.

00:15:40.380 You are.

00:15:41.240 And all the memes,

00:15:43.200 they all say,

00:15:43.880 if you think you're trans,

00:15:44.580 you're trans.

00:15:45.320 Or, you know,

00:15:46.180 all the affirmations.

00:15:48.040 If you,

00:15:48.780 if your parents aren't affirming you,

00:15:50.040 they hate you.

00:15:50.580 If your friends aren't affirming you,

00:15:51.620 they hate you.

00:15:52.280 Be with people who love you.

00:15:53.640 All of that on social media.

00:15:55.440 It's just,

00:15:56.380 it's like catnip for a lonely person.

00:15:58.720 All of whom doesn't fit in.

00:16:00.240 All of whom,

00:16:01.160 Mary Margaret,

00:16:01.640 will abandon them

00:16:02.540 as soon as they have second thoughts.

00:16:05.560 As soon as like Chloe was like,

00:16:07.660 I don't know if I,

00:16:08.680 it's a big middle finger.

00:16:10.820 F off.

00:16:11.780 You were never really trans.

00:16:13.120 You're out of our club.

00:16:14.480 Our cult,

00:16:15.280 as you accurately call it.

00:16:17.180 Yes.

00:16:18.020 No,

00:16:18.440 and it really is a cult

00:16:19.720 because like you were saying,

00:16:21.300 there's this love bombing

00:16:22.720 and this insistent determination

00:16:25.020 to bring everyone,

00:16:26.740 as many people as possible

00:16:27.780 into the fold.

00:16:28.960 And then when these people desist

00:16:31.320 or the detransitioners dare to say,

00:16:34.120 actually,

00:16:34.760 I had a really horrible experience here

00:16:36.340 and I'm suffering mentally

00:16:37.420 and physically

00:16:37.900 and I need help.

00:16:39.200 Those people are told

00:16:40.360 that they are gaslighters,

00:16:41.920 that they are betrayers,

00:16:43.640 that they obviously never were part

00:16:45.600 of the trans community

00:16:46.580 and they're just thrown out.

00:16:48.500 And the saddest part is

00:16:49.880 they're thrown out

00:16:51.500 and they don't really

00:16:52.940 have anywhere to go.

00:16:54.220 The doctors today

00:16:55.260 are such cowards

00:16:56.500 that they are not willing

00:16:57.860 to put their reputations

00:16:58.960 on the line

00:16:59.580 and help people

00:17:00.720 like Prisha and Chloe

00:17:01.860 who have complications

00:17:03.260 from their experimental transitions

00:17:05.940 and they need help.

00:17:07.720 They need someone

00:17:08.240 to put them back together.

00:17:10.640 This is what's so galling

00:17:12.100 about the whole thing.

00:17:12.980 These are almost all

00:17:14.800 of the activists

00:17:15.620 representing the so-called

00:17:16.740 trans community are men.

00:17:18.140 They're men posing as women.

00:17:19.980 They're aggressive

00:17:21.520 and they're angry.

00:17:23.360 They're very angry

00:17:24.460 about the fact

00:17:25.240 that they are not women

00:17:26.280 and they never will be women.

00:17:28.120 And what they really want to do

00:17:29.300 is stifle and control

00:17:30.360 women's voices

00:17:31.180 and spaces for that matter.

00:17:33.260 And I was thinking about this

00:17:34.400 as I was reading

00:17:35.080 some excerpts of your book.

00:17:36.820 When I was at NBC,

00:17:38.500 we did a story

00:17:39.760 with a roundtable discussion.

00:17:41.340 We had like the same panels

00:17:43.020 every week.

00:17:44.100 So like pick 12 people

00:17:46.040 and it was the same 12.

00:17:47.060 And that day

00:17:49.160 we were talking about

00:17:49.960 remember when Scarlett Johansson

00:17:51.540 got cast to play

00:17:53.180 a trans person

00:17:54.200 in some movie

00:17:55.120 and there was so much

00:17:56.800 blowback against her

00:17:58.020 immediately because

00:17:58.780 she's not trans

00:17:59.840 that she decided

00:18:01.140 not to do the role.

00:18:02.940 And by the way,

00:18:03.340 the movie never got made.

00:18:04.640 They had one of the biggest

00:18:05.580 stars in the world.

00:18:06.580 They could have,

00:18:07.740 you know,

00:18:08.180 brought all these eyeballs

00:18:09.220 to whatever cause

00:18:10.080 they were pushing

00:18:10.620 and they didn't get any of them

00:18:12.460 because they,

00:18:13.140 you know,

00:18:13.560 stood on principle

00:18:14.240 that only trans people

00:18:15.300 can play trans people.

00:18:16.160 But trans people

00:18:16.880 can play straight people.

00:18:17.720 No problem.

00:18:18.180 Anyway,

00:18:19.060 we heard about it

00:18:20.840 from,

00:18:21.680 I think it was GLAAD,

00:18:22.500 which is no longer

00:18:23.100 for gay rights.

00:18:23.800 It's all about the trans

00:18:24.740 who was all over us

00:18:26.840 like white on rice

00:18:27.600 on every single segment

00:18:28.860 we did that touched on this.

00:18:30.320 And they were so angry

00:18:32.260 that we did not have

00:18:33.640 a trans person

00:18:34.540 at the table,

00:18:35.680 at our roundtable

00:18:37.340 to represent trans views

00:18:39.780 and trans rights.

00:18:41.560 And NBC shared in their,

00:18:43.620 they were like

00:18:44.300 tail between the legs.

00:18:45.120 Oh my God,

00:18:45.540 we should have had

00:18:45.960 the trans person there

00:18:46.800 to discuss it.

00:18:47.380 It was like,

00:18:48.500 it's just looking back

00:18:49.540 is further evidence to me

00:18:50.980 of how they've been

00:18:52.560 playing this game

00:18:53.660 smartly and aggressively

00:18:55.820 for so long.

00:18:58.220 And we've been acquiescing

00:19:00.560 at every turn

00:19:01.660 to be nice,

00:19:02.920 to not get criticized

00:19:03.980 or called the mean names.

00:19:06.180 And that's why they're winning.

00:19:07.920 But these are sick,

00:19:09.760 sick representatives.

00:19:11.640 They don't speak

00:19:12.320 for all trans people,

00:19:13.520 but the representatives

00:19:14.760 are the worst

00:19:16.320 and aggressively toxic

00:19:18.620 and it's all disturbed men.

00:19:23.100 It is.

00:19:24.100 And I do want to touch

00:19:25.840 on the media aspect of it

00:19:27.260 that you just mentioned

00:19:28.080 because as a reporter,

00:19:29.740 this just makes me incensed

00:19:31.680 and I'm sure it makes you

00:19:32.760 so angry as well.

00:19:33.800 The way in which

00:19:35.000 our establishment

00:19:36.220 or liberal media

00:19:37.300 just completely buys

00:19:38.880 into the talking points

00:19:40.040 on all of this.

00:19:41.020 I think the New York Times

00:19:42.220 and the Washington Post

00:19:43.060 just recently,

00:19:44.800 only just recently,

00:19:46.160 covered Chloe Cole

00:19:47.200 and some of the other

00:19:48.000 detransitioners.

00:19:49.100 And to me, that was huge.

00:19:50.440 It was a real sign

00:19:51.520 that these stories

00:19:52.800 are so powerful.

00:19:54.320 They are what is

00:19:54.920 changing the tide

00:19:56.180 on this gender ideology movement

00:19:58.340 because you can't ignore

00:20:00.160 these stories.

00:20:01.340 You can't listen

00:20:01.980 to Chloe Cole's story

00:20:02.960 and say,

00:20:03.360 well, maybe you should

00:20:04.220 have just tried harder

00:20:05.000 or waited longer.

00:20:06.120 This is just part

00:20:06.700 of your gender journey.

00:20:07.620 You can't listen to that,

00:20:08.860 to what she's been through

00:20:10.160 and feel that way.

00:20:11.440 Yeah, and that's what

00:20:12.100 a lot of these people

00:20:12.820 are told when they go

00:20:13.640 back to their doctors.

00:20:14.520 This is just part

00:20:15.200 of your gender journey.

00:20:16.800 So what about Mary Margaret

00:20:18.460 the complete capture

00:20:19.760 of the medical professionals?

00:20:21.140 Because, you know,

00:20:21.800 that to me

00:20:22.520 is the most unforgivable

00:20:25.220 part of all.

00:20:27.260 It's not,

00:20:27.740 these are not the first kids

00:20:28.700 to have issues,

00:20:31.180 mental health challenges,

00:20:32.220 to be misguided

00:20:34.100 in what they think

00:20:35.120 is the solution.

00:20:35.860 But this is the first time

00:20:37.900 we've seen the complete surrender

00:20:41.100 of the entire medical community,

00:20:43.760 whether it's the endocrinologists

00:20:45.420 or the pediatricians

00:20:47.200 or the therapists

00:20:48.760 and psychiatrists

00:20:50.140 to whom parents turn wrongly

00:20:52.180 for help on this issue,

00:20:53.820 all captured.

00:20:56.480 It's evil, Megan.

00:20:58.320 It is pure evil.

00:21:00.140 It's so hard to look at,

00:21:02.400 you know,

00:21:02.720 one person's story.

00:21:03.820 Like, let's just say, Chloe,

00:21:05.120 you go down the line

00:21:06.460 and you see

00:21:06.980 this therapist failed her.

00:21:08.680 That surgeon failed her.

00:21:10.020 That surgeon failed her.

00:21:11.280 Like every single person

00:21:13.040 who, by the way,

00:21:13.700 she names in her lawsuit,

00:21:14.720 which these lawsuits

00:21:15.740 are amazing.

00:21:16.260 And they are such

00:21:18.400 an impactful way

00:21:20.260 of fighting this battle.

00:21:21.800 Absolutely.

00:21:22.800 But each of these people,

00:21:24.900 you look,

00:21:25.320 I looked into them

00:21:26.040 for my book, right?

00:21:26.880 And I reached out

00:21:27.500 to them for comment

00:21:28.340 and you see their face online

00:21:30.680 and you think,

00:21:31.620 you did this.

00:21:33.820 Like, you made the choice

00:21:35.320 to look this little girl

00:21:36.700 in the eye and say,

00:21:37.700 yes, you should take this drug.

00:21:39.940 We have no idea

00:21:41.040 what effect it will have on you,

00:21:42.560 but we're going to pretend

00:21:43.440 that you can consent to this

00:21:44.820 even though you have no idea

00:21:46.200 what effect it will have on you.

00:21:47.980 And then you go home at night

00:21:49.380 and let's say you have kids

00:21:51.040 and you tuck them into bed

00:21:51.960 and you sleep well.

00:21:53.120 Like, how many children

00:21:54.160 have you done this to?

00:21:56.000 One health official

00:21:58.360 in particular,

00:21:59.160 actually, this guy was

00:21:59.840 with the California

00:22:01.340 Department of Child

00:22:02.980 and Family Services.

00:22:03.800 So not necessarily medicine,

00:22:05.840 but, you know,

00:22:06.560 he's in a position of authority.

00:22:08.220 The last chapter of my book

00:22:09.360 is about a girl

00:22:10.160 who ultimately committed suicide

00:22:12.000 because of this gender journey

00:22:14.840 that she was on.

00:22:15.800 It's incredibly tragic.

00:22:17.440 And I got this guy on the phone,

00:22:18.860 the guy that signed off

00:22:19.840 on her transition,

00:22:20.560 and I said to him,

00:22:22.440 why did you sign off on this,

00:22:24.500 especially considering

00:22:25.640 this little girl

00:22:26.800 threw herself in front of a train?

00:22:28.180 And he couldn't remember her story.

00:22:30.820 He literally could not remember it.

00:22:33.160 And I said to him,

00:22:34.120 he was, you know,

00:22:34.520 he's being really condescending with me.

00:22:35.820 And I said to him,

00:22:36.460 does this happen a lot?

00:22:37.900 Like, why can't you remember this story?

00:22:40.060 Are there many instances of this?

00:22:42.040 And then he got awkward

00:22:42.960 and wanted to get off the phone.

00:22:44.600 But just the many, many children

00:22:47.720 that are in the wake

00:22:48.660 of these health professionals

00:22:50.180 and these, you know,

00:22:51.740 school officials

00:22:52.660 who just flippantly

00:22:53.760 change these lives in this way.

00:22:55.640 I, for one,

00:22:56.720 would not want that on my conscience.

00:22:58.180 And I don't know

00:23:00.260 how they sleep at night, Megan.

00:23:01.240 I really don't.

00:23:02.880 I don't either.

00:23:04.240 And I think the lawsuits

00:23:05.900 really might be the answer.

00:23:07.700 Because if there's one thing

00:23:08.680 we know from American history,

00:23:09.940 when the lawyers get involved

00:23:11.740 with massive class actions,

00:23:13.920 real change does happen.

00:23:15.620 If they win,

00:23:16.500 if they win big verdicts,

00:23:18.680 that's the almighty dollar

00:23:19.940 does rule here in America

00:23:21.180 for better or for worse.

00:23:22.680 And if you can hit them severely

00:23:24.980 in the pocketbooks,

00:23:26.680 they'll stop.

00:23:27.840 They're profit motivated.

00:23:29.200 That's why they're doing this

00:23:30.820 in the first place.

00:23:32.400 Right.

00:23:33.180 Absolutely.

00:23:34.100 No, the monetary incentive here is,

00:23:36.900 I mean, I think we all assume it's there,

00:23:39.380 but it is so perverted.

00:23:41.760 If you think about it,

00:23:42.980 when someone gets on testosterone,

00:23:45.240 so let's say a girl

00:23:45.940 gets on testosterone,

00:23:47.260 she's not getting on it

00:23:48.400 for like two years.

00:23:50.760 She's kind of getting on it for life.

00:23:52.800 I'm Megan Kelly,

00:23:53.900 host of The Megan Kelly Show

00:23:55.360 on SiriusXM.

00:23:57.120 It's your home for open,

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00:24:00.500 with the most interesting

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00:24:59.100 Back with me now,

00:25:00.060 Mary Margaret Olihan,

00:25:01.280 author of the new book,

00:25:02.640 D-Trans,

00:25:03.540 which is out May 28th.

00:25:04.860 Get your copy now.

00:25:05.980 Well worth your time.

00:25:07.400 And joining me now as well

00:25:08.520 is D-Transitioner Luca Hine,

00:25:11.140 who shares her story

00:25:12.220 in the book.

00:25:13.440 Luca was just 16 years old

00:25:14.820 when doctors performed

00:25:15.840 a double mastectomy on her.

00:25:18.800 As a D-Transitioner,

00:25:20.100 she claims

00:25:20.580 she should not

00:25:21.960 have been allowed

00:25:23.040 to consent

00:25:24.100 to the surgery

00:25:24.980 and these treatments

00:25:26.140 as a minor.

00:25:27.520 Today,

00:25:27.840 she's fighting back

00:25:28.520 by telling her story

00:25:29.340 and letting her experience

00:25:30.460 serve as a warning.

00:25:32.460 Mary Margaret,

00:25:32.860 welcome back.

00:25:33.400 Luca,

00:25:33.580 welcome to you.

00:25:35.660 Hi.

00:25:37.340 Great to have you.

00:25:38.900 I just want to finish up

00:25:40.040 the talk I was having

00:25:42.040 before you got here

00:25:42.880 on the money

00:25:43.640 because that's one of the pieces

00:25:46.280 of this story, Mary Margaret.

00:25:47.380 We took a deep dive on this

00:25:48.720 not too long ago,

00:25:50.220 but there are real people

00:25:51.500 making millions

00:25:52.620 off of pushing this

00:25:54.360 and it does in part

00:25:55.880 explain the total surrender

00:25:57.520 of the medical industrial complex.

00:26:00.960 Right.

00:26:01.060 Yeah, I think Matt Walsh

00:26:02.920 did a really interesting

00:26:04.140 investigation about a year ago,

00:26:06.380 maybe six months ago,

00:26:08.100 where he had someone

00:26:09.320 go undercover

00:26:10.120 and just try and order hormones

00:26:11.920 from one of these online sites.

00:26:14.800 And that in and of itself

00:26:16.080 was so interesting

00:26:17.060 because it was so easy,

00:26:18.620 way too simple.

00:26:20.220 The lack of informed consent,

00:26:23.060 first of all,

00:26:23.680 is just typical,

00:26:25.040 but horrifying.

00:26:26.220 And then during that process,

00:26:27.840 they were able to get letters

00:26:29.400 from these alleged therapists

00:26:31.520 to go ahead

00:26:33.180 and get surgeries.

00:26:34.580 So the process

00:26:36.040 has been streamlined

00:26:37.120 in the extreme

00:26:38.260 to help facilitate

00:26:39.700 getting hormones

00:26:40.660 and getting surgeries.

00:26:42.420 And especially

00:26:43.720 for young people

00:26:44.740 who don't really know

00:26:45.760 what they're doing.

00:26:46.260 And you were saying

00:26:46.380 these are things

00:26:46.940 that they're going to need

00:26:47.560 to stay on forever.

00:26:48.700 So you get a 16-year-old

00:26:50.920 who's going to be on it.

00:26:52.160 That's maybe 70 years

00:26:53.860 of guaranteed money.

00:26:56.420 Right.

00:26:56.620 And then complications,

00:26:57.940 follow-up surgeries.

00:26:59.340 You know,

00:26:59.600 a lot of these young people,

00:27:00.920 and Luca can tell you,

00:27:02.180 they feel like

00:27:02.780 once they've had

00:27:03.640 these double mastectomies,

00:27:04.980 their wounds don't really heal

00:27:06.440 for a long time.

00:27:08.060 Requires upkeep

00:27:09.140 and continued follow-ups.

00:27:10.860 And then the medical complications

00:27:12.420 of the hormones themselves

00:27:13.880 requires more medical help.

00:27:15.760 And like I was saying earlier,

00:27:17.240 that also is a whole issue

00:27:18.800 because not a lot

00:27:19.760 of these doctors

00:27:20.400 are willing to

00:27:21.840 so experiment per se

00:27:24.720 on the people

00:27:25.820 that have been mangled

00:27:27.140 by these past other doctors.

00:27:29.120 So the whole thing

00:27:30.320 is a convoluted,

00:27:31.920 very manipulative,

00:27:33.740 very manipulative mess.

00:27:35.560 We had Jennifer Billick on.

00:27:37.780 I'll get you the episode number

00:27:38.860 for the audience

00:27:39.620 who's done incredible work

00:27:41.780 on all of this.

00:27:42.380 She's really exposed

00:27:43.460 exactly who.

00:27:45.500 Like Penny Pritzker,

00:27:47.320 that's one of them,

00:27:48.540 of the famed Pritzker family.

00:27:50.260 She's related

00:27:50.800 to the Illinois governor.

00:27:53.020 Six, four, seven,

00:27:54.060 episode six, four, seven.

00:27:55.380 People who are making bank on this

00:27:57.400 and some are trans

00:27:58.740 or have a trans relative

00:28:00.040 or so on

00:28:00.920 who are pushing it,

00:28:01.740 pushing it, pushing it.

00:28:02.740 And they really want,

00:28:04.040 they're trans

00:28:04.560 and they want your kid

00:28:05.400 to be trans too.

00:28:06.640 Truly, they want your child

00:28:08.980 to make them feel better

00:28:10.720 about their life choices

00:28:13.020 and mental illness

00:28:14.960 in so many cases.

00:28:16.500 It's obscene what they're doing.

00:28:19.220 So, Luca, you,

00:28:20.500 let's talk about your story.

00:28:21.980 So, you're a young girl.

00:28:24.240 Tell us a little bit

00:28:24.880 about your family

00:28:25.680 and sort of the lead up

00:28:27.360 to this drastic decision.

00:28:30.060 Yeah.

00:28:30.600 So, I was, you know,

00:28:33.540 pretty standard teenager.

00:28:37.000 Had a lot going on at home

00:28:38.580 at the time.

00:28:39.340 My parents had broken up.

00:28:40.860 I was just switching

00:28:42.980 into high school.

00:28:43.940 I was going through puberty

00:28:46.320 and all of the uncomfortable

00:28:48.240 experiences that go along with that.

00:28:51.380 But on top of that,

00:28:52.400 I was dealing with depression,

00:28:54.780 anxiety,

00:28:55.600 and was a victim of being groomed

00:28:58.180 and exploited online.

00:29:01.440 And that really led me

00:29:03.220 to kind of spiral down the path

00:29:05.980 of poor mental health.

00:29:08.200 And also...

00:29:08.580 Can you expand on that word groomed?

00:29:10.580 Yeah.

00:29:12.060 Yeah.

00:29:13.100 Groomed as in adult predators

00:29:15.940 talking to me online

00:29:18.500 and getting to the point

00:29:19.960 where,

00:29:21.240 whether through,

00:29:22.280 like, enticement or threats,

00:29:24.960 getting me to send them

00:29:26.640 things they want

00:29:27.360 or talk with them

00:29:28.760 in a certain way.

00:29:30.720 All the time.

00:29:31.900 Keep going.

00:29:32.640 Sorry.

00:29:32.820 But yeah,

00:29:35.040 I did that entire experience,

00:29:37.380 including how

00:29:38.240 when the adults in my life

00:29:40.300 did find out

00:29:41.440 that that grooming was going on,

00:29:44.700 led me to heavily,

00:29:47.840 heavily disassociate

00:29:49.620 from my body

00:29:50.520 and disassociate

00:29:51.800 from womanhood

00:29:52.540 as a concept

00:29:53.500 and my very,

00:29:54.300 like,

00:29:54.500 the femaleness

00:29:55.180 that is my body.

00:29:57.560 And I just so happened

00:29:58.760 to be,

00:29:59.400 you know,

00:30:00.320 born at a time

00:30:01.620 where...

00:30:02.820 the concept of,

00:30:04.620 oh,

00:30:04.720 you don't like your body

00:30:06.040 or,

00:30:06.440 oh,

00:30:06.500 you don't like your period.

00:30:07.620 You don't like

00:30:08.200 how your body is changing

00:30:09.340 during puberty.

00:30:10.660 That's not normal

00:30:11.900 teenage uncomfortableness.

00:30:13.680 That actually means

00:30:14.680 that you're a boy

00:30:15.560 born in the wrong body.

00:30:18.060 Can you...

00:30:18.980 Are you saying

00:30:20.080 what state you're in?

00:30:22.500 I am from Nebraska.

00:30:24.600 Okay.

00:30:25.360 I mean,

00:30:25.660 that's heartland.

00:30:26.520 You wouldn't think,

00:30:27.500 you know?

00:30:27.920 I mean,

00:30:28.240 you just wouldn't think.

00:30:29.200 But yes,

00:30:29.660 it's happening everywhere.

00:30:30.540 We covered a case,

00:30:31.860 a disturbing case

00:30:32.560 out of Montana

00:30:33.200 where their child

00:30:34.600 was essentially

00:30:35.620 wrested away

00:30:36.500 from the parents

00:30:37.320 who were not affirming.

00:30:39.720 So you start to go down

00:30:41.300 and what was it?

00:30:42.520 Was it Reddit?

00:30:43.380 What were the websites

00:30:44.420 that you'd like to flag

00:30:46.120 for people

00:30:46.640 where the most

00:30:47.400 danger lurked?

00:30:50.400 It was mainly

00:30:51.520 sites like

00:30:52.260 Instagram,

00:30:53.980 YouTube,

00:30:54.600 and then

00:30:56.100 at the time

00:30:56.960 there was a really

00:30:57.920 big just messenger

00:30:59.040 app called

00:30:59.820 Kik,

00:31:00.360 K-I-K.

00:31:01.580 I don't think

00:31:02.360 it's used

00:31:03.700 very much anymore

00:31:04.880 but I found out

00:31:06.540 in hindsight

00:31:07.120 later when I got older

00:31:08.500 that that app

00:31:09.660 has a massive

00:31:10.800 predator problem on it.

00:31:13.060 I think it got

00:31:13.680 shut down

00:31:14.220 for the predator problem.

00:31:15.760 Yes.

00:31:16.620 So what happens

00:31:17.720 if you're...

00:31:18.500 It's going to be

00:31:19.060 a male predator

00:31:19.720 99% of the time.

00:31:21.960 What do they do?

00:31:23.140 They go on

00:31:23.780 these websites

00:31:24.460 and then how do

00:31:25.700 they get access

00:31:27.040 to you, Luca,

00:31:28.080 or another girl

00:31:28.980 just like you

00:31:29.840 who's, you know,

00:31:30.740 just quote questioning,

00:31:32.140 right?

00:31:32.320 You're in this like,

00:31:33.020 I don't know,

00:31:33.520 maybe I'm trans.

00:31:34.400 Everyone around me

00:31:35.100 says that you might be

00:31:35.960 if you're on...

00:31:36.420 So you're doing

00:31:37.160 your web searches,

00:31:38.600 the web's repopulating

00:31:39.900 things and it's pushing you.

00:31:41.300 The social media companies

00:31:42.140 are pushing you this stuff

00:31:43.180 but how does

00:31:44.060 the predator

00:31:45.000 get access to you?

00:31:47.660 It's pretty simple.

00:31:49.100 Typically when a kid

00:31:50.200 is having these feelings

00:31:51.640 in the first place,

00:31:52.520 they are vulnerable.

00:31:53.380 They are distressed

00:31:54.640 and oftentimes

00:31:55.680 they don't feel like

00:31:56.820 they have someone

00:31:57.580 they can talk to

00:31:58.700 which puts it

00:31:59.560 in a very dangerous position

00:32:01.060 for a predator

00:32:02.300 to come in

00:32:02.920 and be like,

00:32:03.620 oh, I will be that person

00:32:05.080 you can talk to.

00:32:06.360 You don't want to talk

00:32:07.620 to your parents about this?

00:32:08.720 Well, I can be like

00:32:09.580 your parents.

00:32:10.320 I care about you.

00:32:12.300 I care about you.

00:32:15.120 I love you.

00:32:15.760 I want to see you succeed.

00:32:17.580 Stuff like that.

00:32:18.480 So this person

00:32:20.900 is pretending

00:32:21.580 to be a trans person

00:32:22.980 who can walk you

00:32:24.460 through the process

00:32:25.360 or no?

00:32:26.920 There were multiple people

00:32:28.980 but yes,

00:32:29.620 there were those individuals.

00:32:31.760 Okay.

00:32:32.700 And then we've heard

00:32:33.800 quite a bit about this

00:32:35.260 about how

00:32:36.220 we just spoke

00:32:37.320 with somebody

00:32:37.720 the other day

00:32:38.200 about how

00:32:38.760 some will encourage you

00:32:40.460 to show your body

00:32:41.700 or send naked pictures

00:32:42.900 because you're getting

00:32:45.240 out of that body.

00:32:46.040 That's not really

00:32:46.600 your body anyway.

00:32:47.700 So, you know,

00:32:48.660 what do you care

00:32:49.320 if you send me

00:32:49.940 naked pictures

00:32:50.520 and young girls do it?

00:32:52.880 Young girls do it

00:32:53.700 who have no trans issues

00:32:54.980 because predators

00:32:55.920 find access to them

00:32:56.940 on the internet,

00:32:57.540 you know,

00:32:57.760 and then your whole life

00:32:58.740 has changed.

00:32:59.600 You get exploited.

00:33:01.140 It's like a downward cycle.

00:33:03.100 So can I ask you,

00:33:04.360 you were how old

00:33:05.140 when this was happening to you?

00:33:07.900 13, 14 initially.

00:33:10.100 And did your parents

00:33:11.120 have any idea

00:33:12.160 about this?

00:33:12.900 They found out eventually,

00:33:16.220 but at the time,

00:33:17.260 everything in my home life

00:33:18.900 was just so incredibly chaotic

00:33:20.940 that it just kind of

00:33:22.780 slipped through the cracks.

00:33:24.660 Thanks to the divorce.

00:33:27.000 To the divorce,

00:33:28.220 to the having to deal

00:33:30.700 with my other mental health issues

00:33:32.160 at the time,

00:33:33.000 having to, you know,

00:33:34.740 deal with,

00:33:35.200 oh, I'm going to a new school soon.

00:33:37.120 Just all,

00:33:37.740 all everything in life

00:33:38.980 and just the fact

00:33:39.700 that I had become

00:33:40.740 consumed by spending

00:33:42.840 time on my phone

00:33:43.960 did just kind of

00:33:46.380 unfortunately slip

00:33:47.380 through the cracks

00:33:48.080 and that's where

00:33:48.700 those predators

00:33:49.600 were able to take hold.

00:33:50.880 And I'm not blaming

00:33:52.140 your parents at all

00:33:52.880 because, you know,

00:33:54.180 this happened to a lot of parents,

00:33:55.220 but I do think

00:33:56.060 it's important to figure out

00:33:57.120 exactly what went wrong

00:33:58.380 and the social media.

00:34:00.060 That's a problem, right?

00:34:02.340 I mean,

00:34:03.040 explain how big that became

00:34:05.780 in your life

00:34:06.380 and your transition.

00:34:09.680 It became where I was spending

00:34:12.040 the majority of my free time

00:34:15.240 once I was like home from school

00:34:16.860 in one way or another online.

00:34:20.960 Whether that be

00:34:22.260 just watching YouTube

00:34:23.520 all the time

00:34:24.460 or, you know,

00:34:25.900 going on these other

00:34:26.620 social media apps

00:34:27.480 like Instagram,

00:34:28.200 it really became

00:34:29.840 an all-consuming thing,

00:34:31.420 especially when I was

00:34:32.780 dealing with stuff

00:34:33.520 like depression

00:34:34.940 at the time

00:34:35.680 and it was so much easier

00:34:37.500 to just sit in bed

00:34:39.160 and scroll on my phone

00:34:40.980 rather than,

00:34:42.520 you know,

00:34:43.440 get up.

00:34:45.000 Yep.

00:34:45.720 This is,

00:34:46.300 again,

00:34:46.660 a Lucas story

00:34:47.400 is told

00:34:48.540 in Mary Margaret Olihan's

00:34:50.800 new book,

00:34:51.280 D-Trans,

00:34:52.260 True Stories of Escaping

00:34:53.660 the Gender Ideology Cult.

00:34:55.540 It comes out

00:34:56.220 later in May.

00:34:57.880 You can buy it now

00:34:58.920 to support both of these women.

00:35:01.920 Dr. Laura,

00:35:02.740 who follows me on the air

00:35:03.820 at SiriusXM,

00:35:05.020 who's got a lifetime

00:35:06.180 of being a child

00:35:07.020 and family therapist,

00:35:08.060 always says,

00:35:08.980 divorce can have

00:35:10.800 real consequences.

00:35:12.000 It is not this

00:35:13.080 frivolous thing

00:35:14.340 that we,

00:35:14.700 you get married,

00:35:15.580 you get divorced.

00:35:16.360 You know,

00:35:16.560 there are real consequences

00:35:18.420 to children

00:35:19.600 in a mom

00:35:21.420 and a dad

00:35:21.940 deciding to separate

00:35:23.100 like this,

00:35:23.820 especially at an

00:35:24.760 already tender age

00:35:26.240 of 12 or 13.

00:35:29.220 And she also,

00:35:30.040 by the way,

00:35:30.420 not for nothing,

00:35:31.000 says the same thing

00:35:31.640 about changing

00:35:32.880 your child's school.

00:35:35.120 It's a very dramatic,

00:35:37.140 drastic thing

00:35:37.940 to do with a kid

00:35:38.960 and should not be entered

00:35:40.740 into lightly at all.

00:35:42.440 So you are having

00:35:43.220 all this,

00:35:44.500 plus you said

00:35:45.120 you had mental health issues.

00:35:46.320 these things

00:35:47.840 made you prime

00:35:49.380 for exploitation

00:35:50.840 and to be misguided.

00:35:53.440 What you needed

00:35:54.320 was a group

00:35:55.740 of professionals

00:35:56.700 who cared about you,

00:35:59.540 who were not

00:36:00.520 pushing an ideology.

00:36:02.120 And I can only imagine

00:36:03.460 how angry

00:36:05.240 you feel now

00:36:06.560 that you didn't

00:36:08.000 get that.

00:36:11.500 I look back

00:36:13.280 at like my teenage self

00:36:14.800 and I look at everything

00:36:16.280 that was going on

00:36:17.400 in my life

00:36:18.140 because I essentially

00:36:19.340 had the

00:36:20.060 like perfect storm

00:36:22.520 of comorbidities

00:36:24.040 going on.

00:36:25.640 Everywhere from,

00:36:26.840 you know,

00:36:27.040 depression,

00:36:27.640 sexual trauma,

00:36:28.860 rough home life,

00:36:29.660 the perfect like checklist

00:36:31.320 of what should be

00:36:33.200 major red flags

00:36:34.880 for any professional

00:36:36.740 that doesn't have

00:36:39.180 this kind of agenda.

00:36:40.240 And somehow

00:36:40.700 this was all pushed

00:36:41.840 to the side.

00:36:42.500 And I think

00:36:43.040 that is the most

00:36:43.760 baffling part to me.

00:36:45.220 The fact that

00:36:46.120 all of this going on

00:36:47.400 and them knowing

00:36:48.380 about it,

00:36:49.660 not once

00:36:50.560 did they decide

00:36:51.360 to push back

00:36:52.260 or at least

00:36:53.060 just say,

00:36:53.760 hey,

00:36:54.240 wait,

00:36:54.700 you're going

00:36:55.320 through a lot

00:36:55.920 right now.

00:36:56.920 Let's work on that.

00:36:59.200 So let's talk about

00:36:59.860 how the medical complex

00:37:01.040 got involved.

00:37:01.800 So you're at this point

00:37:02.660 in our story

00:37:03.280 on Instagram

00:37:04.880 and these other websites

00:37:05.920 all the time.

00:37:06.980 Your parents are

00:37:07.740 not paying attention

00:37:08.780 to this at the moment.

00:37:09.680 And what's

00:37:11.240 the next step

00:37:11.860 for you

00:37:12.320 in saying out loud,

00:37:14.260 I quote,

00:37:15.480 think I'm a boy

00:37:16.180 or, you know,

00:37:17.160 how did you start

00:37:17.960 taking it next level?

00:37:20.280 So at that point,

00:37:21.380 I had already been

00:37:22.520 seeing the posts

00:37:23.480 on my social media

00:37:24.480 about like,

00:37:25.640 oh, if you,

00:37:27.020 you know,

00:37:27.460 disliking your period

00:37:28.500 can be a sign

00:37:29.160 that you're trans,

00:37:29.900 it might mean

00:37:30.320 you're a boy

00:37:30.760 born in the wrong body,

00:37:32.340 essentially priming

00:37:33.720 with that,

00:37:34.660 that sort of messaging

00:37:35.660 about disconnect

00:37:36.960 from your body

00:37:37.580 or feeling comfortable

00:37:38.320 with your body.

00:37:39.580 But at the time,

00:37:40.600 as my mental health

00:37:41.440 was spiraling,

00:37:42.340 I actually ended up

00:37:43.820 doing multiple sessions

00:37:45.500 in what is called

00:37:46.980 a partial hospitalization program.

00:37:49.160 It is a step down

00:37:50.160 from inpatient.

00:37:51.780 This was all during

00:37:52.520 my freshman year

00:37:53.140 of high school.

00:37:54.360 And it was during

00:37:55.520 one of those sessions

00:37:56.700 that I brought up,

00:38:00.040 I wonder,

00:38:01.120 I wonder if I'm

00:38:01.960 actually a boy.

00:38:02.880 And it was like

00:38:05.260 I said the magic words

00:38:07.500 when I brought up

00:38:08.680 the gender topic

00:38:09.600 because suddenly

00:38:10.440 there was an easy

00:38:12.040 explanation for professionals

00:38:13.700 as to why I was struggling

00:38:15.200 in all these other areas.

00:38:16.740 There was an easy,

00:38:17.880 essentially,

00:38:18.300 band-aid

00:38:18.740 to slap on top of

00:38:19.900 all these other issues

00:38:21.020 I was having

00:38:21.820 that would have been

00:38:22.680 much harder

00:38:23.480 and a much longer process

00:38:24.880 to work through.

00:38:27.100 And everything else

00:38:28.320 seemingly got pushed

00:38:29.100 to the wayside.

00:38:29.800 So what did they say

00:38:32.780 on this?

00:38:33.440 These were like psychiatrists

00:38:34.740 or what were the credentials

00:38:35.900 of the people

00:38:36.540 you were dealing with?

00:38:37.160 These were therapists,

00:38:38.620 psychiatrists,

00:38:39.780 nurses,

00:38:40.860 think any,

00:38:41.380 essentially anyone

00:38:42.160 you would see

00:38:42.800 in an inpatient

00:38:43.840 hospitalization program

00:38:44.960 for mental health.

00:38:46.900 So it wasn't like

00:38:47.780 a place for trans people.

00:38:49.860 It was just

00:38:50.320 for mental health.

00:38:51.820 You mentioned

00:38:52.260 the trans thing

00:38:52.820 and all of them

00:38:53.700 were like,

00:38:54.180 yes.

00:38:56.100 Yes, it was.

00:38:57.200 I mentioned,

00:38:57.940 hey,

00:38:58.300 I'm seeing this stuff.

00:38:59.800 That's saying like,

00:39:00.640 oh,

00:39:00.740 if I feel this way,

00:39:01.780 that might mean

00:39:02.260 I'm a boy.

00:39:03.080 What if I think

00:39:03.780 I'm a boy?

00:39:06.040 And like I said,

00:39:07.020 it was like

00:39:07.740 I said the magic words.

00:39:10.780 And that was

00:39:11.640 the only topic

00:39:12.440 that was really focused

00:39:13.500 on from then on out.

00:39:15.740 How long

00:39:16.460 from that time

00:39:17.440 to when

00:39:18.580 you started

00:39:19.880 taking,

00:39:20.600 I imagine,

00:39:21.340 puberty blockers

00:39:22.020 and then testosterone?

00:39:22.940 So at that point,

00:39:27.180 I,

00:39:27.800 after my last stint

00:39:29.140 in the partial

00:39:30.080 hospitalization program,

00:39:31.680 I was then

00:39:32.720 recommended

00:39:33.100 to go see

00:39:33.880 a therapist

00:39:35.260 who works

00:39:36.500 with gender

00:39:37.660 diverse young people.

00:39:40.320 Boy.

00:39:41.340 And from there,

00:39:42.440 once again,

00:39:43.000 it was affirmation only.

00:39:44.400 And after

00:39:46.900 seeing her

00:39:47.420 for a bit,

00:39:47.900 the first

00:39:48.580 like medical

00:39:50.180 intervention,

00:39:51.140 like physical

00:39:51.560 medical intervention

00:39:52.400 I ever had

00:39:53.400 was the double

00:39:54.040 mastectomy

00:39:54.540 at 16.

00:39:56.040 Before anything else.

00:39:58.300 Before any hormones?

00:40:00.120 Before any hormones.

00:40:01.520 I was never

00:40:02.260 on puberty blockers

00:40:03.140 because I was

00:40:03.520 a little bit

00:40:04.240 too old

00:40:04.680 at that point

00:40:05.360 for them to

00:40:06.120 stunt anything.

00:40:07.920 But the first

00:40:10.400 medical intervention

00:40:11.160 I had

00:40:11.580 was the surgery.

00:40:14.240 What did

00:40:14.580 your parents say?

00:40:16.680 They were scared.

00:40:18.160 They were scared

00:40:18.960 and they trusted

00:40:19.840 medical professionals

00:40:20.880 who at that point

00:40:22.160 had given them

00:40:23.000 no reason

00:40:23.800 to distrust them.

00:40:26.160 They sounded sure.

00:40:27.340 They sounded like

00:40:28.100 this was a well-settled

00:40:29.600 scientific fact

00:40:31.020 that this was

00:40:31.860 the only path forward.

00:40:34.400 And of course,

00:40:35.040 if you're a parent

00:40:35.760 and you care

00:40:36.540 about your child,

00:40:37.380 you see that

00:40:37.880 your child

00:40:38.380 is suffering,

00:40:39.840 especially when

00:40:40.780 they bring up

00:40:41.300 the risk

00:40:41.680 of possible suicide

00:40:42.940 if you don't

00:40:43.900 move forward

00:40:44.540 with something

00:40:45.160 like this,

00:40:46.740 of course,

00:40:47.700 they're going

00:40:48.040 to look at

00:40:48.560 a professional

00:40:49.160 who is offering

00:40:49.960 to help

00:40:50.500 and seem so sure

00:40:51.740 in what they're doing

00:40:52.560 and trust that person.

00:40:55.280 This is such

00:40:56.160 a common story,

00:40:56.880 Mary Margaret.

00:40:57.320 I'm sure you heard

00:40:57.920 this with all

00:40:58.760 of the folks

00:40:59.300 you talked to

00:40:59.980 where they scare

00:41:01.500 the parents

00:41:02.160 into compliance.

00:41:04.240 Yes,

00:41:04.660 and it is

00:41:05.540 frankly a threat

00:41:06.640 that the line

00:41:07.760 that they give

00:41:08.320 to every parent.

00:41:09.220 Would you rather

00:41:09.700 have a dead daughter

00:41:10.560 or a living son?

00:41:11.980 And it's framed

00:41:12.680 as this compassionate

00:41:13.840 kind of warning,

00:41:15.900 but I view it

00:41:16.880 as a death threat.

00:41:18.040 They're saying,

00:41:19.380 if you don't do this

00:41:20.460 for your child,

00:41:21.260 your child will die

00:41:22.360 because of you.

00:41:24.160 And what a manipulative,

00:41:25.660 horrible thing

00:41:26.220 to say to any parent

00:41:27.280 who,

00:41:27.880 like Luke is saying,

00:41:29.140 these parents

00:41:30.000 all care about

00:41:30.720 their kids.

00:41:31.360 you know,

00:41:32.320 there definitely

00:41:32.900 are cases

00:41:33.740 where there are

00:41:34.680 very,

00:41:35.580 very bad parents

00:41:36.820 who are purposefully

00:41:37.780 doing this

00:41:38.260 to their children

00:41:38.840 out of a desire

00:41:39.620 for attention

00:41:40.900 or something worse.

00:41:42.920 But in many cases,

00:41:44.000 these parents

00:41:44.640 are victims

00:41:45.120 of gender ideology

00:41:46.060 as well

00:41:46.680 and they want to do

00:41:47.780 what's best

00:41:48.200 for their daughter

00:41:48.860 and they think

00:41:49.560 these medical professionals

00:41:51.000 know what they're

00:41:51.520 talking about.

00:41:52.300 How should I know

00:41:53.080 better than them?

00:41:53.880 And so they trust

00:41:54.720 just like Luca trusted,

00:41:56.420 like her parents trusted.

00:41:58.120 And then when they get

00:41:59.160 to the other side,

00:42:00.320 I'm sure Luca can share,

00:42:02.500 they're abandoned.

00:42:03.480 There's no one

00:42:04.120 to trust anymore

00:42:05.180 because they were betrayed

00:42:06.400 and the people

00:42:07.200 that they trusted

00:42:07.900 don't want anything

00:42:08.780 to do with them

00:42:09.540 because for someone

00:42:10.860 like Luca,

00:42:11.580 going back to the

00:42:12.380 medical professionals

00:42:13.260 who did this to her,

00:42:14.960 she is living evidence

00:42:16.140 that they failed,

00:42:17.460 that their efforts

00:42:18.360 are experimental.

00:42:19.840 And so they don't want,

00:42:21.300 they don't want

00:42:21.760 to interact with her.

00:42:23.380 Oh, I'm sure.

00:42:24.940 Again,

00:42:26.100 this story

00:42:26.820 and others told

00:42:27.820 in Mary Margaret

00:42:28.800 Olihan's new book,

00:42:29.920 D-Trans,

00:42:30.640 True Stories of Escaping

00:42:31.880 the Gender Ideology Cult,

00:42:33.920 which is available

00:42:34.420 for pre-order right now.

00:42:36.620 So Luca,

00:42:37.180 you have a double mastectomy.

00:42:39.700 I assume you're living

00:42:41.340 sort of as a boy,

00:42:43.220 right?

00:42:43.440 You're, you know,

00:42:44.320 presenting now as male.

00:42:46.440 Okay.

00:42:47.080 And then-

00:42:47.440 Whatever that means.

00:42:49.780 Yeah.

00:42:50.540 Did you start

00:42:51.740 testosterone after that?

00:42:55.660 Yes.

00:42:56.220 So I had,

00:42:57.300 I had the double mastectomy

00:42:58.420 in July

00:42:59.180 and then November

00:42:59.980 of that same year

00:43:00.740 I was put on testosterone.

00:43:02.900 And how long

00:43:03.780 were you on that for?

00:43:05.940 I took that

00:43:06.780 for four years.

00:43:08.680 Wow.

00:43:09.860 From 16 to 20.

00:43:12.020 What did it do to you?

00:43:15.060 It made my voice deeper.

00:43:17.180 It changed my skin

00:43:18.660 and hair texture.

00:43:20.320 It gave me

00:43:21.240 really bad,

00:43:22.320 like,

00:43:22.840 acne.

00:43:23.160 It made, like,

00:43:27.680 body hair texture change.

00:43:29.660 It essentially

00:43:30.400 also just

00:43:31.860 launched

00:43:32.660 my teenage body

00:43:34.340 into

00:43:35.060 chemically induced

00:43:36.380 menopause.

00:43:38.440 Right.

00:43:39.620 Just chaos.

00:43:40.440 It just seems like

00:43:41.120 you're taking a

00:43:42.320 God-given

00:43:43.000 natural-born system

00:43:44.180 and

00:43:44.680 creating

00:43:45.900 utter chaos

00:43:46.860 in it.

00:43:47.400 what were those

00:43:50.760 four years like

00:43:51.480 before I get to

00:43:52.160 the detransitioning piece?

00:43:53.540 Like,

00:43:54.060 what,

00:43:54.520 describe your

00:43:55.360 happiness,

00:43:56.180 your interactions,

00:43:57.100 your life

00:43:57.500 for those four years?

00:43:58.240 I,

00:44:00.820 you know,

00:44:01.660 tried my best

00:44:02.660 throughout those

00:44:03.380 four years

00:44:04.020 and to a certain extent

00:44:05.680 when you have

00:44:06.340 everyone around you

00:44:08.020 telling you

00:44:08.940 this is the right thing,

00:44:10.540 you should be so happy,

00:44:12.280 you should feel good

00:44:13.540 about this,

00:44:14.200 of course there is a

00:44:15.420 level of, like,

00:44:16.540 placebo to that.

00:44:17.560 Of course,

00:44:17.840 when everyone around you

00:44:19.020 is affirming this

00:44:20.220 and telling you

00:44:20.780 you're right

00:44:21.440 and that

00:44:22.120 this is the good

00:44:23.440 thing to do,

00:44:24.680 of course you're

00:44:25.380 going to go along

00:44:26.100 with that.

00:44:26.680 Especially after

00:44:28.020 having just come off

00:44:29.360 such a, like,

00:44:30.800 a awful time

00:44:31.740 in your life

00:44:32.440 where you were

00:44:32.920 at your lowest.

00:44:35.800 And of course

00:44:36.580 you have the,

00:44:37.260 the effect that

00:44:37.980 testosterone is,

00:44:39.720 it's,

00:44:40.000 it's a steroid,

00:44:40.960 it's going to give you

00:44:41.720 energy,

00:44:42.240 you're going to,

00:44:43.120 you're going to feel good

00:44:44.080 and it was that

00:44:44.900 mixed with all the

00:44:45.600 other mental health

00:44:46.460 medications I was on

00:44:47.500 at the time.

00:44:49.300 But looking back

00:44:50.480 at it,

00:44:51.340 I didn't realize

00:44:53.600 just how

00:44:54.200 disconnected

00:44:55.140 I felt

00:44:56.140 from everything

00:44:56.920 in my life

00:44:57.940 until I

00:44:59.540 detransitioned,

00:45:00.600 disconnected from

00:45:01.400 my physical self,

00:45:02.820 from just

00:45:03.860 everything,

00:45:05.020 everyone around

00:45:05.800 me.

00:45:07.260 To the point

00:45:08.260 where I,

00:45:09.020 yeah,

00:45:09.700 sorry,

00:45:09.900 go ahead.

00:45:10.620 To the point

00:45:11.640 where I

00:45:12.220 was so

00:45:13.240 disassociated

00:45:14.440 from myself

00:45:15.260 throughout those

00:45:16.120 years,

00:45:16.540 that when it all

00:45:17.780 came crashing

00:45:18.520 back down,

00:45:19.700 it,

00:45:19.980 it felt like

00:45:20.900 the emotional

00:45:21.600 equivalent of being

00:45:22.420 hit by a bus,

00:45:23.420 essentially.

00:45:23.820 Were you,

00:45:26.440 you know,

00:45:26.900 people often confuse

00:45:27.860 gender with sexuality.

00:45:29.420 They're two separate

00:45:30.520 highways.

00:45:31.880 And just because

00:45:33.120 you think you're

00:45:34.420 trans doesn't mean

00:45:35.480 your sexuality

00:45:36.220 changes at all.

00:45:38.420 So you were

00:45:39.680 a straight girl

00:45:40.360 when this all

00:45:40.940 started,

00:45:41.400 as I understand

00:45:42.060 it,

00:45:42.300 yes?

00:45:44.540 I suppose more

00:45:45.620 or less,

00:45:45.880 yes,

00:45:46.060 yeah.

00:45:46.880 Okay,

00:45:47.240 okay.

00:45:48.140 And then you

00:45:49.540 start transitioning

00:45:50.560 or for four years

00:45:51.280 you're living,

00:45:52.340 quote,

00:45:52.440 as a boy.

00:45:53.980 And during

00:45:54.280 that time,

00:45:55.660 I mean,

00:45:55.920 most 16 to 20

00:45:56.720 year old young

00:45:57.560 girls are starting

00:45:58.200 to have some

00:45:59.220 hormones kick in

00:46:00.160 for sexual

00:46:00.740 attraction,

00:46:02.120 whoever you're

00:46:02.720 attracted to,

00:46:03.220 whether you're

00:46:03.540 a lesbian or

00:46:04.180 you're straight.

00:46:05.740 Was that

00:46:06.440 happening and

00:46:07.440 was it

00:46:07.920 confusing given

00:46:09.560 what you were

00:46:10.220 doing over here

00:46:11.140 in the gender

00:46:11.720 lane?

00:46:12.020 It was confusing

00:46:16.900 in like there's

00:46:17.860 there's two

00:46:18.500 separate aspects

00:46:19.500 I suppose I

00:46:20.160 could divide

00:46:20.600 this into.

00:46:21.360 You have the

00:46:22.200 aspect of,

00:46:23.200 okay,

00:46:23.300 my body is

00:46:24.140 being pumped

00:46:24.660 with high

00:46:25.100 amounts of

00:46:25.880 testosterone

00:46:26.800 and that's

00:46:28.220 just wreaking

00:46:28.700 havoc on

00:46:29.620 everything and

00:46:30.620 making everything

00:46:31.420 very confusing

00:46:32.340 and kind of

00:46:33.380 warping

00:46:33.900 any attraction

00:46:36.620 I had.

00:46:37.560 And then you

00:46:37.960 had the

00:46:38.660 aspect

00:46:39.240 of just

00:46:41.520 navigating the

00:46:43.680 world like

00:46:44.580 that and

00:46:45.760 also not

00:46:46.480 knowing what

00:46:48.040 to do because

00:46:49.220 of the fact

00:46:50.060 that the,

00:46:51.120 you know,

00:46:51.800 the sexual

00:46:52.520 trauma I had

00:46:53.480 was never

00:46:54.280 addressed in

00:46:55.420 favor of the

00:46:56.580 gender thing.

00:46:57.660 So then you

00:46:58.000 have essentially

00:46:58.920 a, you know,

00:47:00.140 16 to 19

00:47:01.160 year old who

00:47:01.960 doesn't really

00:47:02.540 have a picture

00:47:03.100 of what healthy

00:47:03.640 relationships look

00:47:04.540 looks like,

00:47:05.660 has these

00:47:06.820 raging wrong

00:47:08.120 hormones in

00:47:09.040 her body

00:47:09.640 that are

00:47:10.540 throwing

00:47:10.900 everything out

00:47:12.040 of whack.

00:47:13.280 It was on

00:47:14.060 mental health

00:47:14.920 medication that

00:47:15.900 is also throwing

00:47:16.980 everything there

00:47:18.140 out of balance

00:47:19.400 and just a

00:47:20.900 very confusing

00:47:21.740 time where

00:47:23.020 there never

00:47:24.040 was a serious

00:47:25.360 relationship in

00:47:26.500 any of that

00:47:27.280 because I don't

00:47:28.000 think at the

00:47:28.460 time that would

00:47:29.000 have been

00:47:29.240 possible given

00:47:30.200 what was

00:47:30.620 happening.

00:47:31.740 This is so

00:47:32.620 cruel.

00:47:33.880 So what was

00:47:34.900 it?

00:47:35.480 What did it

00:47:36.080 for you,

00:47:36.480 Luca,

00:47:36.760 where you were

00:47:37.240 like,

00:47:38.260 wrong choice,

00:47:39.040 I don't

00:47:40.400 want this?

00:47:42.340 I grew up

00:47:43.380 a little.

00:47:44.460 And I think

00:47:44.820 that is the

00:47:45.580 most simple

00:47:46.100 way to put

00:47:46.640 it is I

00:47:47.240 grew up.

00:47:49.420 I grew up

00:47:50.460 and I was

00:47:50.940 able to

00:47:51.400 think about

00:47:52.260 the world

00:47:52.980 and my

00:47:53.500 future in

00:47:54.300 ways that

00:47:54.780 just were

00:47:55.620 not possible

00:47:56.560 at 16

00:47:57.560 years old

00:47:58.100 because I

00:47:58.800 was a

00:47:59.180 16 year

00:47:59.860 old.

00:48:01.700 You know,

00:48:02.340 we don't

00:48:02.720 necessarily

00:48:03.360 consider

00:48:03.940 teenagers

00:48:04.440 the ones

00:48:04.940 with the

00:48:05.240 best long

00:48:06.180 term decision

00:48:06.760 making

00:48:07.200 in the

00:48:07.980 things they

00:48:08.340 do.

00:48:10.260 But it

00:48:11.180 was a

00:48:11.560 combination

00:48:11.920 of that

00:48:12.420 is like

00:48:12.760 the overarching

00:48:13.460 theme.

00:48:13.960 It's just I

00:48:14.400 grew up.

00:48:15.020 And then you

00:48:15.360 got into the

00:48:15.920 other aspects

00:48:16.540 of, okay,

00:48:16.940 I'm able to

00:48:17.660 think about

00:48:18.240 do I want

00:48:19.540 children?

00:48:20.300 What do I

00:48:20.920 want my

00:48:21.500 serious

00:48:21.940 relationships

00:48:22.620 to look

00:48:23.160 like?

00:48:24.060 You have

00:48:24.860 the health

00:48:25.480 complications

00:48:26.100 at that

00:48:26.460 point I

00:48:26.800 was experiencing

00:48:27.420 from

00:48:27.700 testosterone.

00:48:28.880 And then you

00:48:29.220 have another

00:48:29.820 overarching

00:48:30.580 theme of I

00:48:32.260 don't want to

00:48:33.240 be chained to

00:48:34.220 a medical

00:48:34.700 industry.

00:48:35.840 I want my

00:48:36.440 freedom.

00:48:37.120 I want to

00:48:37.540 be able to

00:48:37.900 go places.

00:48:38.660 I want to

00:48:39.040 be able to

00:48:39.820 not be

00:48:40.240 reliant on

00:48:41.360 this medication

00:48:42.220 that is now

00:48:43.180 at this point

00:48:43.660 hurting me.

00:48:46.460 What's the

00:48:47.100 story normally

00:48:47.980 like in your

00:48:48.520 experience,

00:48:49.060 Mary Margaret?

00:48:50.420 Is there a

00:48:51.260 trigger for

00:48:51.920 most detransitioners

00:48:53.160 so they know

00:48:54.400 they're done?

00:48:55.220 Like how does

00:48:55.800 the light bulb

00:48:56.400 come on?

00:48:57.820 I found it

00:48:58.680 was kind of

00:48:59.240 different in a

00:48:59.840 lot of cases

00:49:00.540 like Helena

00:49:01.500 Kirshner was

00:49:02.360 in a relationship

00:49:03.180 with another

00:49:04.200 girl who

00:49:05.060 identified as

00:49:06.360 a transgender

00:49:07.380 man and

00:49:08.700 that person

00:49:09.420 made Helena

00:49:10.880 a slideshow

00:49:11.780 of their

00:49:12.120 relationship and

00:49:13.140 Helena saw

00:49:13.980 how she had

00:49:15.000 gone from

00:49:15.700 being this

00:49:16.440 kind of happy

00:49:17.160 teenager to

00:49:18.020 just being

00:49:19.020 this really

00:49:19.720 sad hurting

00:49:21.280 person and

00:49:22.040 she saw

00:49:22.420 visible photos

00:49:23.640 of this and

00:49:24.960 it made her

00:49:25.640 just kind of

00:49:26.340 crack and

00:49:26.940 realize oh my

00:49:27.620 gosh look

00:49:28.660 what I've done

00:49:29.160 here where

00:49:29.520 here's where

00:49:30.020 I am.

00:49:30.340 She started

00:49:30.640 sobbing and

00:49:31.280 that was her

00:49:31.960 realization

00:49:32.460 moment.

00:49:32.960 But I

00:49:34.680 think for

00:49:35.100 some of

00:49:35.440 the other

00:49:35.720 people like

00:49:36.360 that I've

00:49:36.980 been talking

00:49:37.340 to kind

00:49:38.520 of like

00:49:38.760 Luca shared

00:49:39.400 it was more

00:49:40.380 of a moment

00:49:40.880 of I'm not

00:49:41.780 feeling better

00:49:42.580 and then oh

00:49:44.140 is is there

00:49:45.200 something wrong

00:49:45.940 here?

00:49:46.320 Why am I not

00:49:46.940 feeling better?

00:49:47.820 I was told

00:49:48.440 that I would

00:49:49.080 find happiness

00:49:49.840 on the other

00:49:50.640 side of this

00:49:51.320 and that's

00:49:51.700 that's something

00:49:52.300 I brought up

00:49:52.840 a lot actually

00:49:53.600 and Luca maybe

00:49:54.840 you can chime

00:49:55.440 in on this

00:49:56.000 is the idea

00:49:57.600 that happiness

00:49:58.460 is on the

00:49:59.280 other side

00:49:59.920 of the hell

00:50:01.060 that is this

00:50:01.880 surgical and

00:50:02.640 medical transition

00:50:03.620 you know

00:50:04.380 that doctors

00:50:06.060 are telling

00:50:06.600 young people

00:50:07.280 you will be

00:50:08.200 happy if you

00:50:09.340 go through

00:50:09.780 all of this

00:50:10.440 not just that

00:50:11.440 you will be

00:50:11.900 a man

00:50:12.400 and that's

00:50:13.820 not something

00:50:14.400 that we tell

00:50:15.020 people in

00:50:15.560 any medical

00:50:17.360 field you know

00:50:18.360 that you will

00:50:19.140 be happy if

00:50:19.900 you get this

00:50:21.100 breast augmentation

00:50:21.860 or something

00:50:22.360 like that

00:50:22.800 that's just

00:50:23.100 not how

00:50:23.520 medical

00:50:23.840 professionals

00:50:24.380 speak

00:50:25.020 and yet

00:50:26.000 that is

00:50:27.260 what is

00:50:27.720 being sold

00:50:28.280 to these

00:50:28.720 young people

00:50:29.340 often young

00:50:30.540 people who

00:50:30.960 are looking

00:50:31.340 for identity

00:50:32.040 they're looking

00:50:32.580 for happiness

00:50:33.080 I mean that's

00:50:33.500 a human thing

00:50:34.060 right like

00:50:34.480 we're all

00:50:34.760 searching for

00:50:35.260 happiness

00:50:35.620 at the end

00:50:36.140 of the day

00:50:36.680 and so to

00:50:37.780 harness that

00:50:38.380 desire that

00:50:39.180 very human

00:50:39.860 desire is

00:50:41.100 evil and

00:50:42.520 and that is

00:50:43.200 what these

00:50:43.760 medical

00:50:44.100 professionals

00:50:44.740 have been

00:50:45.580 doing

00:50:45.920 Luca the

00:50:47.780 can I can

00:50:48.680 you just say

00:50:49.420 so you get

00:50:50.200 to this point

00:50:50.820 and ultimately

00:50:52.100 you do a

00:50:53.400 very smart

00:50:54.000 thing which

00:50:54.860 is hire

00:50:55.600 our pal

00:50:56.840 Harmeet

00:50:57.400 Dillon

00:50:57.740 who's a

00:50:59.080 brilliant

00:50:59.740 lawyer and

00:51:01.380 one of the

00:51:01.760 few who's

00:51:02.160 truly unafraid

00:51:02.860 to go after

00:51:03.820 true villains

00:51:04.580 and so who

00:51:06.040 are you suing

00:51:06.920 um I am

00:51:10.240 suing the

00:51:11.360 main gender

00:51:13.000 clinic doctor

00:51:13.820 the therapist

00:51:15.620 that wrote

00:51:16.840 all my letters

00:51:17.380 and was the

00:51:18.080 first to like

00:51:18.500 really affirm

00:51:19.400 me the one

00:51:19.700 I mentioned

00:51:19.980 earlier um

00:51:21.200 and then also

00:51:22.080 the surgeon

00:51:22.600 who performed

00:51:23.160 the double

00:51:23.480 mastectomy

00:51:24.860 and are

00:51:26.260 your parents

00:51:26.960 relieved now

00:51:28.020 that you've

00:51:28.840 transitioned

00:51:29.640 back

00:51:30.060 I think

00:51:32.280 in some

00:51:33.780 ways that

00:51:34.440 was you

00:51:35.360 know a

00:51:36.160 very hard

00:51:37.440 conversation

00:51:38.180 to have

00:51:38.840 um telling

00:51:40.460 I was telling

00:51:41.820 my mom that

00:51:42.840 felt like

00:51:44.300 the emotional

00:51:45.240 equivalent of

00:51:46.200 slapping her

00:51:46.800 in the face

00:51:47.360 because I knew

00:51:48.600 me telling her

00:51:49.820 that would

00:51:50.260 hurt her

00:51:50.780 um and

00:51:52.140 that's not

00:51:52.600 something you

00:51:53.580 know anyone

00:51:54.580 wants because

00:51:55.280 she wanted

00:51:55.700 you to be a

00:51:56.280 boy or because

00:51:57.000 she participated

00:51:57.760 in all of

00:51:58.520 this because

00:51:59.880 she had her

00:52:00.840 reservations and

00:52:03.220 was not listened

00:52:04.320 to by me they

00:52:06.120 were any

00:52:07.060 reservation she

00:52:07.820 had were

00:52:08.360 squashed out by

00:52:09.860 the therapists

00:52:11.320 and the doctors

00:52:12.260 and having

00:52:14.060 someone who

00:52:14.640 had that

00:52:15.480 protective

00:52:16.420 instinct and

00:52:17.340 tried to say

00:52:18.020 something and

00:52:19.520 then coming

00:52:20.000 back years

00:52:20.680 later and

00:52:21.340 going you

00:52:22.040 were right

00:52:22.620 I should have

00:52:23.580 listened to

00:52:24.180 you um and

00:52:26.780 knowing that

00:52:27.420 that in her

00:52:28.180 heart that

00:52:28.760 must hurt

00:52:29.580 knowing that

00:52:31.240 everything

00:52:31.620 happened and

00:52:32.420 she was

00:52:33.880 correct um

00:52:35.500 oh it was

00:52:36.720 it was one

00:52:37.300 of the

00:52:37.800 lowest moments

00:52:40.600 I think that

00:52:41.380 that conversation

00:52:42.340 on the phone um

00:52:44.020 to the point

00:52:44.920 where it started

00:52:45.800 out with she

00:52:46.680 she picked up

00:52:47.460 the phone and

00:52:48.800 I just I broke

00:52:50.060 down I I was

00:52:51.080 sobbing to the

00:52:51.840 point where she

00:52:52.420 was like are

00:52:52.980 you okay did

00:52:53.780 are you hurt did

00:52:54.540 someone attack

00:52:55.360 you because she

00:52:56.840 thought it was

00:52:57.380 that bad that

00:52:58.240 something else

00:52:58.780 was going on

00:52:59.540 um and the

00:53:00.480 answer was yes

00:53:01.300 the answer is

00:53:03.280 yes someone did

00:53:04.840 attack me

00:53:05.320 someone with

00:53:05.840 the scalpel

00:53:06.380 in a surgeon's

00:53:07.540 gown pretending

00:53:08.780 to be a

00:53:10.820 surgeon who

00:53:11.340 took the

00:53:11.640 Hippocratic oath

00:53:12.500 the before I

00:53:14.860 let you go

00:53:15.220 because we

00:53:15.460 got to wrap

00:53:15.900 it up but

00:53:16.240 before I let

00:53:16.680 you go what

00:53:17.280 is your

00:53:17.560 advice Luca

00:53:18.600 to other

00:53:20.640 kids out

00:53:21.980 there who

00:53:23.020 are being

00:53:23.840 tempted by

00:53:24.480 this same

00:53:25.240 messaging and

00:53:26.740 their parents

00:53:27.840 who are being

00:53:28.740 sold the lie

00:53:30.040 about the

00:53:30.720 suicide threats

00:53:31.500 um to the

00:53:34.440 young people

00:53:35.300 it would be

00:53:35.920 you are going

00:53:37.620 to do so

00:53:39.020 much growing

00:53:39.940 and so much

00:53:41.200 you know

00:53:42.220 finding yourself

00:53:43.420 and finding what

00:53:44.280 you're interested

00:53:44.920 in especially

00:53:45.980 in your teenage

00:53:46.660 years don't let

00:53:48.800 those years

00:53:49.740 become consumed

00:53:51.040 by a medical

00:53:51.900 industry that does

00:53:52.960 not care about

00:53:53.720 you and then

00:53:55.700 to the parents

00:53:56.540 I suppose I

00:53:58.800 would just say

00:53:59.320 in a world

00:54:00.200 that wants

00:54:02.040 you to always

00:54:02.740 say yes to

00:54:03.580 your child

00:54:04.160 know that

00:54:04.800 always saying

00:54:05.600 yes is not

00:54:06.680 an act of

00:54:07.340 love and

00:54:08.060 sometimes just

00:54:09.500 putting your

00:54:10.120 foot down and

00:54:11.220 saying no or

00:54:12.560 wait and

00:54:13.840 setting that

00:54:14.620 boundary is the

00:54:16.520 most loving

00:54:17.220 thing you can do

00:54:18.160 for your child

00:54:18.900 you give me the

00:54:21.240 chills thank you

00:54:22.920 thank you for

00:54:23.620 telling your story

00:54:24.380 god bless you

00:54:25.240 I hope you do

00:54:26.660 great on this

00:54:27.940 new path and

00:54:29.180 I'm really

00:54:30.160 awed by your

00:54:30.960 courage in telling

00:54:31.620 the story thank

00:54:32.480 you thank

00:54:33.200 you Mary

00:54:35.200 Margaret thanks

00:54:35.780 to you too

00:54:36.320 wow I can see

00:54:37.420 why you were in

00:54:37.980 tears a lot on

00:54:38.780 these interviews

00:54:40.040 and when writing

00:54:40.780 this book please

00:54:41.600 support the effort

00:54:42.460 and read more

00:54:43.400 because there are

00:54:44.180 so many heartbreaking

00:54:45.020 stories in here

00:54:45.700 but also important

00:54:47.020 important telling

00:54:48.740 ones and a

00:54:49.460 guide really for

00:54:50.460 parents and kids

00:54:51.660 too on how

00:54:52.840 it happens and

00:54:54.700 what to look out

00:54:55.360 for again the

00:54:55.940 book is D

00:54:56.580 Trans True

00:54:57.420 Stories of

00:54:58.200 Escaping the

00:54:58.880 Gender Ideology

00:54:59.780 Cult by Mary

00:55:01.040 Margaret Olihan

00:55:01.720 all the best

00:55:02.620 to you

00:55:02.900 thank you so

00:55:04.360 much

00:55:04.720 thank you

00:55:06.420 thanks for

00:55:11.260 listening to the

00:55:11.840 Megan Kelly show

00:55:12.640 no BS

00:55:13.520 no agenda

00:55:14.280 and no fear

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 02, 2024

The Cost of ＂Transition,＂ and Detransitioners Fighting Back, with Mary Margaret Olohan and Luka Hein ｜ Ep. 781

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