The Megyn Kelly Show - The Disturbing and Incredible Story of Fake Cancer Survivor ＂Scamanda,＂ With Host Charlie Webster

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00:00:14.400 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:17.500 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:27.060 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:28.760 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:30.680 Oh, we have an incredible true crime story for you today.

00:00:34.700 A real mystery that went on for years.

00:00:39.360 Blogger Amanda C. Reilly had stage four blood cancer, except she didn't at all.

00:00:48.120 And the ruse she went through, the fraud she committed on her friends, her family, her

00:00:55.820 church members, is the subject of the hit investigative podcast, Scamanda.

00:01:02.680 It kind of gives it away in the name.

00:01:04.320 So I'm not, I'm not speaking out of school here when I tell you it was a scam.

00:01:08.040 But how she pulled it off and the lengths that this woman went to, to fool people into believing

00:01:15.220 she was ill and to donating to her funds in order to help her with her disease will just

00:01:22.800 leave you stunned in your chair.

00:01:24.200 The podcast was the number one show on Apple in all categories for weeks and for very good

00:01:30.620 reason.

00:01:31.200 It is riveting.

00:01:32.100 I listened to it with my whole family when we went to France.

00:01:35.320 We had long car rides.

00:01:36.540 We were, everybody was into it like Scamanda, more Scamanda.

00:01:39.500 The host and producer of the show, Charlie Webster, is here with us today to discuss how

00:01:44.220 one woman managed to scam friends, family, and strangers out of more than $100,000 with

00:01:50.800 her fake illness.

00:01:52.660 Charlie, welcome to the show.

00:01:54.700 Thank you.

00:01:55.240 Thank you for having me.

00:01:56.140 I love that description of your trip to France was just like dominator by Scamanda.

00:02:00.520 Yes, it was.

00:02:01.460 And here we are.

00:02:02.060 I mean, I'm 52.

00:02:03.100 My youngest is nine and it appealed to all of us.

00:02:06.080 So it's, it's got a wide range of listeners and fans and it's just completely exploded online

00:02:11.420 now.

00:02:12.500 And it's kind of, I mean, forgive me because I know some people actually really lost money

00:02:16.220 and were emotionally wounded by this woman, but it was fun.

00:02:18.900 It was fun.

00:02:19.400 You made it fun to listen to because the first several episodes, you really are, you know

00:02:25.660 from the name that it's not real, but you spend the whole time like, how did she do it?

00:02:30.460 How did she do it?

00:02:31.600 And that's part of the mystery of it.

00:02:33.920 So how did you get turned on to this story?

00:02:36.900 Just on the name.

00:02:38.060 It's funny you should say that, Megan, because I debated so much.

00:02:42.360 Honestly, I had 20 names in front of me.

00:02:45.620 I was scribbling notes all the time because I couldn't decide whether to call it Scamander

00:02:49.840 and whether it would give the game away too much.

00:02:53.060 Because for those that haven't listened, I actually don't let you really know what happens

00:02:58.840 until the very end.

00:03:00.640 And Megan, you'll know yourself as a broadcaster and journalist, how hard that is to do when

00:03:05.380 you're actually making and producing something.

00:03:07.320 And but how I actually got onto the story was there's an there's an investigative true crime

00:03:14.500 veteran and called Nancy Muscatello.

00:03:17.400 And she first looked at this story.

00:03:21.180 Well, it wasn't even a story because that's quite quite a few people have asked me, like,

00:03:25.240 why can't I find it online?

00:03:26.260 And I'm like, oh, no, we are like I actually kind of did the story.

00:03:30.900 It wasn't like we found the story elsewhere.

00:03:32.900 We are the original broadcaster of the story in a way.

00:03:37.160 And Nancy found this from an anonymous tip back in like 2015.

00:03:44.040 But then what was so interesting was she was looking into it for a potential story.

00:03:48.480 And then she ended up not making it as a story, but became embroiled in the story as a character

00:03:55.480 and as a protagonist herself.

00:03:57.600 And then she was telling me about it.

00:04:00.700 So then I started to look into the story.

00:04:02.620 And then that's when I came on board to build it further as a journalist and then look into

00:04:08.400 it.

00:04:08.620 And to be honest with you, when I first spoke to Nancy and I mean, we can go into the fact

00:04:14.480 that Amanda wrote a blog, but I started to read Amanda's blog and look at pictures and

00:04:20.740 hear testimony.

00:04:21.700 And I was like, OK, I need to just I need to make sure that we've got this right, because

00:04:28.300 she is that convincing.

00:04:30.540 Right.

00:04:30.680 She might have cancer.

00:04:31.800 You start you listen to her blog post and you're like, no, she definitely has cancer.

00:04:36.060 There's no way she doesn't have cancer.

00:04:37.640 And yes, this whole episode is a spoiler alert.

00:04:39.820 So if you're going to listen to Scamanda, you should probably come listen to this episode

00:04:43.960 after you've done that.

00:04:45.540 And then you'll have fun listening to Charlie and yours truly talk about it.

00:04:49.040 Um, but yeah, she this woman seemed to have a Ph.D.

00:04:53.860 in what it's like to have cancer.

00:04:55.260 So you spend much of the series wondering, well, maybe she had cancer for a little while.

00:04:59.760 Maybe she had like a small dose of cancer, but like she definitely had some sort of illness.

00:05:04.900 And then, of course, you find out at the end, the whole thing was a scam.

00:05:08.700 If she had devoted one tenth of her energies to actually just working and getting a like a

00:05:14.100 great job, and I know she had a job for some of this time, she she wouldn't have needed to commit

00:05:19.780 a scam.

00:05:20.460 But that that begs the question of why she did it, which we'll get to in a bit.

00:05:25.140 So Nancy Muscatello gets an anonymous tip.

00:05:28.120 She's a reporter.

00:05:29.100 She gets an anonymous tip.

00:05:30.120 You might want to look into this person who may be scamming people on cancer.

00:05:35.040 And just to just to top it off, Charlie, Scamanda is not the only person to scam people

00:05:41.240 when it comes to cancer like this, as it turns out, is a thing.

00:05:46.660 How how is it?

00:05:48.380 How is it?

00:05:49.520 Like, right.

00:05:50.460 How is it a thing?

00:05:51.420 This is what I when I first looked into it and started.

00:05:55.500 Honestly, I sat there with boxes and boxes of papers and documents, and I tried to access

00:06:02.060 bankruptcy documents, which took me months and months and months.

00:06:06.580 And and I was like, no, this isn't do people actually do this.

00:06:11.160 And then since I released Scamanda, people started telling me that, you know, oh, my best

00:06:17.580 friend did this or actually reminds me of this story.

00:06:19.700 And I'm like, I don't know.

00:06:21.580 Why do you think people do this, Megan?

00:06:23.380 And I didn't realize how common it was, to be honest.

00:06:26.180 Yeah.

00:06:26.420 I mean, I think there are there are lots of motivations, right?

00:06:28.500 Some people want money.

00:06:29.460 Some people want attention.

00:06:30.840 Some people have this used to be called Munchausen's.

00:06:34.180 Now they call it, I think, fictitious disorder or something like that.

00:06:38.060 But, you know, they why does somebody this doesn't sound like it was Amanda, but those

00:06:43.380 people who have Munchausen's will actually hurt themselves on purpose.

00:06:46.380 You know, they'll swallow bleach and things like that to to actually get into the hospital

00:06:50.880 and be treated by doctors and I guess feel special.

00:06:53.800 They're sick.

00:06:55.300 Scamanda, I think, is a different story.

00:06:57.360 I don't think she was sick.

00:06:58.640 I think she was, you know, messed up as anybody would have to be to commit this crime.

00:07:03.080 But I don't think she was actually mentally ill in the way somebody with Munchausen says.

00:07:10.080 So how did it start?

00:07:11.880 Like it was 2000, what, 11?

00:07:15.040 So Amanda started a blog and I think the timing is really key to what she did and a few other

00:07:21.660 things which we can go into.

00:07:23.220 But she started a blog in 2012.

00:07:25.400 And I remember looking back at my own career and OK, where was I in 2012?

00:07:29.080 What was I doing?

00:07:29.780 And it's a bit of a giveaway by the way that I sound that I am British.

00:07:36.140 I am in America, but I am British.

00:07:38.380 And I was actually hosting the London Olympics in 2012 as a broadcaster.

00:07:43.520 And I was like, what was that time like?

00:07:44.960 Well, TikTok didn't exist.

00:07:47.080 I'm not even sure I was really on Instagram.

00:07:49.060 And I think it was all about the blogosphere and Twitter.

00:07:52.540 And I think that's that is very key to her story.

00:07:56.220 So she started a blog at the time where blogging was really a thing.

00:08:00.260 And it was an automatic credibility, I think, for your narrative and your story.

00:08:06.940 And, you know, we had the mummy blogger, the fitness bloggers.

00:08:10.720 And Amanda started to share her story of her diagnosis of Hodgkin's lymphoma.

00:08:16.800 And she called her blog, What the Heck is Hodgkin's Lymphoma?

00:08:22.560 And she started that blog and she was so detailed in it.

00:08:27.600 And she was so raw and heartfelt and hopeful.

00:08:32.240 I mean, a lot of people, this is the thing about her.

00:08:34.500 She was an inspiration.

00:08:35.520 And a lot of people came to her blog and she started to get an audience.

00:08:40.300 To me, she was like an early day influencer.

00:08:42.900 And that's how it initially started.

00:08:45.960 But shall I give the spoiler away?

00:08:48.420 Well, yeah, you said we're going to give spoilers away.

00:08:51.220 This is for people who have listened to it or they know they're going to get spoilers.

00:08:55.960 It's still worth your time to go back and listen to the whole thing.

00:08:58.840 Absolutely.

00:09:00.020 Yeah, because I think to that point, I think it's not really about the end result.

00:09:04.720 What I wanted to try and show in the podcast was how she did it.

00:09:08.600 And I used her blogs.

00:09:11.300 So she was part narrator and telling you how she did it herself, in a way, alongside me,

00:09:20.160 which I had a lot of fun, a lot of late nights doing and a lot of sleepless nights,

00:09:26.140 but a lot of fun doing.

00:09:27.520 Anyway, she wrote this blog.

00:09:29.560 But then this started in 2012 when she said she was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma.

00:09:33.680 And then I found out that in 2010, she told a couple in San Jose that actually she was diagnosed

00:09:42.100 with Hodgkin's Lymphoma stage four in 2010.

00:09:46.560 So then, OK, that slightly doesn't add up.

00:09:49.840 And then I then found out, actually, after the podcast, that this was going on even before that.

00:09:57.680 So there's a pattern of behavior.

00:09:59.320 Like, I'm sure we'll get into the motivation, which we've touched upon a little bit, which

00:10:02.360 I think is so interesting, and her behavior and the psychology.

00:10:05.960 But there seems to be a pattern of behavior of lying or saying that you're, you know, I

00:10:12.140 found out that she said she got lupus as a teenager.

00:10:15.040 You know, I don't know whether she definitely didn't have that, but people think she didn't

00:10:19.580 that I've spoken to.

00:10:20.540 And then I feel like it grew and grew, and I feel like she realized that she could get

00:10:24.880 things, and not necessarily money, but attention or, I don't know, get away with not doing that

00:10:31.980 project or work or something by not being very well.

00:10:35.300 And I think it kind of grew from there.

00:10:36.760 But we can talk a bit more about her past anyway.

00:10:40.420 But yes, she wrote this blog and then became a bit of a blog influencer and then a local

00:10:47.600 celebrity, and then she infiltrated the church and then became a known person within the

00:10:53.740 church and was actually called the anointed one.

00:10:57.180 It's so sad.

00:10:58.180 She took advantage of people of faith who were rooting for her and believing and praying for

00:11:03.100 a miracle for her and donating to her.

00:11:06.040 It's just absolutely exploitative.

00:11:07.780 But one of the interesting things about it to me was she's married ultimately to this

00:11:13.220 guy named Corey, and she met Corey because Corey was married to Alita, and they had two

00:11:20.920 daughters, and one of them did get cancer.

00:11:25.400 And they hired Amanda originally when Amanda was a teenager, like 18, to sort of come in

00:11:32.720 and be with the two daughters and be a source of light, play with them, teach them cheerleading

00:11:38.480 or something like that.

00:11:39.360 And she was this super and I think remained this super bubbly, positive force, you know,

00:11:46.940 that she happens to be a criminal.

00:11:48.640 We learn later, but that's how she first got folded into this family.

00:11:53.220 And it seems to me, you tell me, but like she looked at this daughter's cancer and learned,

00:11:59.060 you know, and I bet she saw how much attention the child got.

00:12:02.780 And thank God that the child survived.

00:12:04.660 But that seemed to me to be like where she got the idea, like, oh, look at all the attention

00:12:10.740 that goes to this, this young girl who's been stricken with this terrible disease.

00:12:15.760 Yeah.

00:12:15.920 And the fact that she ends up with Corey, who's 12 years older than her.

00:12:20.220 Yeah, she steals the husband.

00:12:21.580 Yeah.

00:12:22.120 And I, but I also, you know, when I started to look into that part of it, I did wonder,

00:12:27.340 because I really tried to, to make sure I didn't have blinkers on and to make sure that I didn't

00:12:33.280 have a preconceived idea of what I thought it was or wanted it to be, because I thought

00:12:39.540 that was very important.

00:12:41.660 Especially because you've got Nancy's now a character of the story and Amanda, well, hated

00:12:48.900 Nancy and the feelings kind of mutual really.

00:12:52.460 Nancy, the investigative journalist who got turned on to the story and started pushing

00:12:57.780 on it.

00:12:58.260 Keep going.

00:12:59.240 Yeah.

00:12:59.760 Yeah.

00:13:00.440 And she pushed on it.

00:13:01.760 And then, then it didn't become about making the story.

00:13:05.480 She didn't make the story.

00:13:06.340 She just became the story and she ended up a source to the police and she ended up being

00:13:10.660 the protagonist against Amanda.

00:13:12.280 So it's Amanda against Nancy, basically.

00:13:14.140 And then I wanted to try and play that off in the podcast because I didn't quite want

00:13:20.240 you to know who you believed or who you liked.

00:13:22.900 And the reason why was because that's exactly how it played out.

00:13:26.860 And I wanted to show you that as a listener, because I wanted you to feel how this went along

00:13:32.100 and why people didn't believe Amanda, sorry, did believe Amanda, but didn't believe Nancy.

00:13:38.360 Um, so to go back to Corey, Alita, the two girls, Jess and Jamie, it was Jamie that had

00:13:47.260 cancer.

00:13:48.060 And yet, as you said, Megan, Amanda was brought in to, to spend time with them and teach them

00:13:55.220 cheerleading.

00:13:55.780 And they weren't having a lot of social interaction because of, um, Jamie's cancer and she is doing

00:14:02.020 really well now, thankfully.

00:14:03.400 And actually she's, um, just had a baby, um, so, which is actually a genuine miracle baby

00:14:08.760 for those that have listened to the show, uh, which we can talk about.

00:14:12.980 And Amanda came into the home and one of the things I wanted to make sure was, well, was

00:14:18.140 there coercive control here from Corey?

00:14:21.100 Did Corey, was there any kind of grooming?

00:14:23.840 I don't know because she was so young.

00:14:26.060 She, there was definitely a position of power there.

00:14:27.860 She was 17.

00:14:28.540 He was much older, like in his, what would he be like late twenties, 29, 30.

00:14:34.320 And, um, she went to his graduation.

00:14:39.260 I don't know, kind of a bit strange for me why somebody would do that.

00:14:43.180 And then ended up with her.

00:14:46.300 But I think you're right.

00:14:47.740 There was an element of some of the things that Jamie went through and her story and what

00:14:54.100 Amanda picked up.

00:14:54.960 And now this becomes the pattern of behavior because she went to cancer groups for young

00:15:00.460 people and mimicked some of their stories.

00:15:05.060 And I think she took on other people's stories and then created her own narrative from that.

00:15:11.160 She's so detailed though, and knew so much.

00:15:14.540 And people thought she was an, she must've known because she was an oncologist.

00:15:18.840 I mean, people actually thought she was an oncologist.

00:15:20.820 I actually told somebody, oh no, she's actually not an oncologist.

00:15:23.520 Um, because she would say things about the different drugs that we use, the different

00:15:27.600 treatment that was used, all the symptoms of what you're going through, which I don't

00:15:31.160 think is just something you can find off the net.

00:15:33.380 I think you would have to listen to people's stories and build that your own picture in

00:15:39.460 your head.

00:15:39.980 And I think that's how, I mean, there's so many reasons of how she managed to do this,

00:15:44.560 but one of them was that it was very, very hard to catch her and to prove that she was

00:15:49.460 lying because it was so genuine in a strange way.

00:15:54.440 No, it's true.

00:15:55.140 She, this woman deserves an Academy award.

00:15:56.980 She's a great actress.

00:15:58.260 We showed her picture.

00:15:59.240 She's super smiley.

00:16:00.720 She's got this thousand watt smile.

00:16:02.880 She looks non-threatening.

00:16:04.340 She looks like somebody you want to root for.

00:16:06.580 Yeah.

00:16:06.900 She's super charming.

00:16:07.900 And then when you listen to her talk about it and you, the, the podcast is a good job

00:16:12.280 because you hired an actress to read the Amanda blog posts and the actress does a great job.

00:16:19.200 She sounds super bubbly and she sounds like someone you'd want to know and like maybe go

00:16:23.460 out for dinner with.

00:16:24.880 And then you also intersperse the real Amanda because you have her on tape repeatedly speaking

00:16:32.120 to the church group, speaking to others.

00:16:33.720 And she too is, she's just like the actress playing her super bubbly and so on.

00:16:38.220 And very, very knowledgeable about cancer, cancer, drugs, you know, experimental treatments.

00:16:43.760 Here's just a little, this is all from Scamanda podcast, um, of the actual Amanda talking about

00:16:50.340 a new cancer drug.

00:16:51.620 It's soundbite four.

00:16:54.380 I've been fighting stage four blood cancer for the past three years to the point that doctors

00:17:00.060 don't want to treat me anymore.

00:17:01.140 They developed a new drug, immunotherapy, and they wanted to give it a try on me.

00:17:07.240 We'd been warring and praying and fundraising and the doctor, you know, told me, I like your

00:17:11.920 positivity, but you need to understand that in your situation, this drug working would

00:17:19.020 be like rain in California.

00:17:22.760 Sorry that I'm laughing, but that's my favorite.

00:17:25.240 One of my favorite when she says like rain in California, because she comes up with these

00:17:28.980 like poetic quips.

00:17:30.880 Yeah, she actually does.

00:17:32.740 If you listen to the whole thing, she she's, she's good with the phrases.

00:17:35.340 She's good at sort of spinning a yarn in a way that's very believable.

00:17:39.360 So she's out there.

00:17:40.960 It's starting to grow.

00:17:42.000 She, she winds up with Corey, the husband of the family who she was supposed to be there

00:17:45.760 helping.

00:17:46.500 And then the relationship goes downhill between Amanda, Corey, and now the ex-wife Alita, who's

00:17:52.980 the mother of the two girls.

00:17:54.020 And this is important because Alita, as many ex-wives who are in custody battles over their

00:18:01.200 children, does not wind up really feeling all that great about Amanda.

00:18:06.480 And Amanda and Corey want full custody of the daughters.

00:18:10.960 And Alita is angry about it.

00:18:13.080 And Alita is paying attention.

00:18:14.780 And Alita is noticing she doesn't.

00:18:17.680 I'm not sure this woman's on the up and up.

00:18:19.300 And one of her daughters is starting to have the same feeling from inside the family, not

00:18:25.380 the one who had cancer, Jamie, the other daughter, Jessa.

00:18:29.140 But it's hard for them to really be heard because she's disgruntled.

00:18:35.260 She's the ex-wife, you know, it's and then you've got the sunny, cheery thousand watt smile.

00:18:41.500 Poor me.

00:18:42.140 I have cancer on the others.

00:18:43.020 Nobody wants to look at the sweet cancer victim and say, like, you don't have it.

00:18:47.120 I believe the bitter ex-wife, which is how they portrayed the ex.

00:18:50.920 Yeah, there's so much in that around human behavior, which is what I find so fascinating.

00:18:56.720 Like, I love psychology and how complex we are, because I think there's so many possibilities

00:19:02.720 in between good and bad.

00:19:05.720 But I think we like to put them in those, for want of a better phrase, buckets, because

00:19:12.120 it helps us identify people or maybe feel safer.

00:19:17.460 But if you look at the way you do, you described it perfectly, Megan, because if you look at

00:19:21.440 Amanda, yes, very, very, to me, the typical manipulation, master manipulator, they're not

00:19:30.420 horrible, as in how we would perceive aggressive, horrible.

00:19:34.780 They're not this big, bad monster that comes up to you in the street.

00:19:37.380 There's somebody who is very, very charming.

00:19:39.100 That's how they manipulate and get through the situation.

00:19:42.700 And then you've got somebody like Alita who, and it really is, in all seriousness, awful

00:19:47.780 what happened to Alita, because Jessa got taken off Alita for a year.

00:19:53.280 Like, I can't even imagine what that must feel like for a mother.

00:19:56.020 And then, to top that off, Amanda and Corey were influencing Jessa to make her turn against

00:20:07.100 her mother.

00:20:08.160 And what do we expect Alita to portray herself like?

00:20:12.340 Like a charming, happy, smiley person?

00:20:15.220 No, of course not.

00:20:16.320 I love that this happened.

00:20:18.140 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:18.700 Oh, it's okay.

00:20:19.400 Like, she's not going to.

00:20:22.240 So then she is desperate and heartbroken and hurt and absolutely devastated.

00:20:28.800 But then that gets perceived as like the, you know, like you said, the disgruntled ex-wife.

00:20:34.320 And then Amanda used that to play into the narrative.

00:20:38.000 You know, she's just jealous of me because then when Alita did start to say, you know,

00:20:42.760 she's faking cancer, why would then they believe the ex-wife?

00:20:47.980 Because Amanda had already spun the yarn of the fact that she was not a good mom.

00:20:54.400 She was doing X, Y, and Z.

00:20:56.480 She was, you know, doing all these things, basically, trying to portray her as a bad character.

00:21:04.040 So then you've got this woman who's smiley, charming, Amanda I'm talking about.

00:21:08.220 And now she's got cancer that's so awful.

00:21:11.460 And she's just trying to protect her, her stepdaughter and her family from the big bad mom.

00:21:18.280 So you can see how convincing it became when you talk about it like that.

00:21:22.580 And, you know, I think we've got to remember that there was a child in the middle of this,

00:21:27.640 poor Jessa, who spent, you know, I've spoken to her a lot and she's in the podcast.

00:21:32.940 And she feels, she feels not only horrifically betrayed and violated, but that was her upbringing.

00:21:41.740 She was lied to her whole upbringing, her whole childhood.

00:21:46.060 And she feels guilty, though, for what Amanda did,

00:21:49.880 because on the receiving end of some of the gifts and the kindness of people was Jessa.

00:21:56.300 Jessa got free tennis lessons.

00:21:58.280 She got meals, she got to go and see concerts, she got to appear, you know, she got to go to sports games.

00:22:05.920 So she did receive some of that.

00:22:07.740 And she feels guilty because she was taking that, you know, under the premise of a lie,

00:22:14.500 but obviously didn't realize.

00:22:16.160 She didn't know.

00:22:16.840 So, you know, there's a lot of deep, yeah, deep complications of relationships here.

00:22:20.720 And it's so much more than money.

00:22:23.240 In fact, to me, money doesn't even, when I spoke to so many people, money wasn't the thing.

00:22:28.780 Even so many people spoke to me off the record because they were scared of Amanda and what she might do to them.

00:22:33.340 And it was, it was just about the betrayal.

00:22:38.520 It couldn't have been about the money, because if you look at what the feds say she stole,

00:22:43.140 I mean, she defrauded people out of, it was $105,000 over, what, seven years, I think.

00:22:51.000 So that's $12,000 a year.

00:22:53.780 That's not enough.

00:22:55.080 Like, that's, that, it can't have been about the money.

00:22:58.380 It has to, as you point out, have been about attention.

00:23:02.200 You describe her almost as like having celebrity status in San Jose, in particular in her church.

00:23:09.740 Um, and on top of that, it seems like she used it to make other people do her mothering, take

00:23:20.360 care of her household, hold responsibilities that I've seen as a pattern in other cases,

00:23:25.440 because I'm obsessed with cases like this.

00:23:27.080 So I, I absolutely love like the stories about Munchausen by proxy or all that.

00:23:30.880 But like, they use it to make other people do their responsibilities.

00:23:34.480 So poor Jess is over there and, uh, somebody else is going to have to make Jess's dinner

00:23:39.060 because Amanda's too sick.

00:23:42.100 Yeah.

00:23:42.720 And you said about the $105,000, it wasn't about the money, but also it's important to

00:23:49.760 point out that the way of the laws, um, very black and white, right?

00:23:55.920 Uh, justice system.

00:23:57.020 Um, so the only way that they could get Amanda criminally was for wire fraud, because technically

00:24:04.880 it's not, you know, you can lie.

00:24:06.860 I could sit here and lie and not be arrested.

00:24:09.560 It's not illegal to lie.

00:24:11.480 Um, even though it obviously has a horrific impact on people, that's not against the law.

00:24:16.640 So they had to find a way to get her legally.

00:24:19.560 And the only way was wire fraud.

00:24:21.360 So if she hadn't have, and that was because she did a good, like a, an online fund page,

00:24:27.460 like a GoFundMe.

00:24:28.900 So that's how they managed to criminally charge her.

00:24:32.600 Now, if she'd have not done it online, where she'd have just collected money, um, through

00:24:37.340 check and through cash, she would not be in prison.

00:24:40.780 I've just given it away where she is now, but yeah.

00:24:43.340 So she would have got away with it because, yeah, because there was lots of money.

00:24:47.700 So there was so much more money, but it was cash and checks.

00:24:52.140 And, um, I've got a picture of her in church and she was part of a mega church.

00:24:56.380 So think how many thousands of people that are, that, that is, that's not just a couple

00:25:00.160 of hundred people, that's thousands.

00:25:02.200 And they're putting money and throwing money at her feet on stage.

00:25:05.980 So then you think, well, how much money was that?

00:25:08.620 And then how much money over that seven years, Megan, did she collect in cash and check?

00:25:13.580 Nevermind what you said in kind, which was through babysitting.

00:25:19.600 And there was a lot of patterns of babysitting when she said she was in hospital and Corey

00:25:25.040 was with her.

00:25:26.120 So I don't know.

00:25:27.340 Well, I mean, she actually was in hospital because she took loads of pictures of herself

00:25:31.100 in hospital, but there was people that were trying to help her babysitting, cleaning,

00:25:37.300 um, cooking meals, gifting things, raising money, uh, for her.

00:25:44.420 Even there was somebody, um, who gave a nutritional supplement every month.

00:25:50.820 So she could just go on and a membership to an, like a nutritional supplement.

00:25:54.940 So every month she could order as much as she wanted.

00:25:57.380 So how much did that come to over seven years?

00:26:00.040 So I think there was so much more, but none of that counted as the criminal charge.

00:26:04.600 It was just the wire fraud, which makes you think, oh my gosh, how do people, how does

00:26:11.200 I, I don't know, maybe we should change the law.

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00:26:46.760 One of the great moments in the podcast is where you, cause you interview the nanny to

00:26:50.760 the family to, you know, the Corey, Amanda family.

00:26:54.540 And if at one point the nanny talks about how she had a wealthy friend who wanted to

00:27:00.480 help Amanda and the person made a donation of like 50 bucks and Amanda was mad and mocked

00:27:09.280 the donation to the nanny.

00:27:10.920 And that's one of those like, oh, that veils down moments where like, she's bad.

00:27:16.080 She's bad.

00:27:16.840 No, no one would ever mock a donation from anybody helping anybody with cancer.

00:27:21.940 But there are these little clues there where you start to see who she really is.

00:27:26.280 She's not the sweet, bright smile.

00:27:29.260 Lovely.

00:27:29.820 She's a fraudster.

00:27:31.520 She is a fraudster.

00:27:32.480 And we wouldn't know had not been for Nancy.

00:27:35.560 So Nancy, the investigative reporter is fun to listen to.

00:27:39.100 She's almost a co-host in the, in the, in the podcast.

00:27:42.580 And she also wrestled with her doubts.

00:27:46.500 Like, I know she's a scammer, but is she a scammer?

00:27:50.660 She says so many things that seem legit.

00:27:53.200 So here's a little bit of Nancy, uh, Moscatello from the podcast talking about, you know, her

00:27:59.240 trying to deal with this and, and how she got sort of, um, involved.

00:28:03.020 So this is top three.

00:28:04.920 I felt really torn more so with, is this real or not?

00:28:09.540 Does she have cancer or not?

00:28:10.760 So every time I would read something, I'd say, oh no, she's got cancer.

00:28:14.580 Like, look at this photo.

00:28:16.280 Like she, this is intense looking.

00:28:18.240 This looks like, yeah, she has cancer.

00:28:19.700 And then I would read on a little bit further and I'd go, oh no, she doesn't have cancer.

00:28:24.280 But the detail and the energy and everything that went into it, it just felt really real.

00:28:34.580 So I start looking through the bankruptcy documents and there's just pages and pages of debt.

00:28:42.140 And I figured the best place to start is going through and see what that debt's all about.

00:28:48.480 And there's not one doctor, one medical expense.

00:28:52.120 It's just all debt.

00:28:54.280 Oh, that was an exciting moment too, because Amanda had to file for bankruptcy and Nancy

00:28:59.820 actually went and looked at the filings.

00:29:01.240 Like what, what's in there?

00:29:02.600 Are there an actual cancer victim?

00:29:05.160 Would have had lots of doctor's bills.

00:29:06.920 And that's, I think for Nancy and for the audience, that's a big aha moment.

00:29:11.740 Yeah.

00:29:11.840 There's also this, this document.

00:29:13.620 You just reminded me when I first saw it that, um, I'm trying to remember the figures

00:29:19.360 now, it was like a one in front of a zero five or something and, or a zero or two five.

00:29:25.600 And it, if you look at the bank, we held it up to the light and it was doctored.

00:29:30.580 So it was actually for like 2,500 or something like that.

00:29:34.500 And it was to do with, cause Amanda ended up having two boys, um, two Corey and it was to

00:29:40.580 do with her pregnancy, but she'd put a one in front of it and, and done it as if it was

00:29:46.840 for her cancer treatment.

00:29:47.940 But they claimed bankruptcy several times.

00:29:51.060 And, um, in the podcast, there's a moment where you hear both of them, uh, take the

00:29:56.160 stand and, you know, swear under oath and talk about their bankruptcy.

00:30:02.420 And I was like trying to get a hold of that audio for ages and ages because it was a really

00:30:06.120 key point.

00:30:07.040 And to me, it also pointed about, I have to be careful what I say, but further knowledge

00:30:13.120 of what was happening, not just with Amanda herself, because it was also, I can tell you

00:30:21.280 I, in my opinion, Corey knew everything in my opinion, Corey is guilty too.

00:30:27.260 Um, and that's one of the mysteries people have to decide for themselves and listening

00:30:30.640 to the podcast, whether the husband knew, but my opinion is he clearly knew and helped

00:30:36.120 her.

00:30:36.620 How else was he taking these trips to the hospital with her out of town for days?

00:30:43.120 We're, we now know she was not in any hospital.

00:30:46.820 And he, well, she did what the, the, the crazy thing about all this is she did go to hospital.

00:30:54.260 Like she did go to clinical trials.

00:30:56.760 She did see doctors.

00:30:58.120 She did sit in hospital and take photos of herself hooked up to IV machines.

00:31:03.440 There's a, there's a picture right in front of your screen.

00:31:05.520 Now she did do these things.

00:31:07.700 So she wasn't sat behind a keyboard, like a keyboard warrior, just putting out this narrative.

00:31:12.660 She actually did spend her time in hospitals, taking selfies.

00:31:17.720 And I would just want to pick up on what you said about Corey.

00:31:22.260 So again, remember what we're talking about with the justice system, just because you haven't

00:31:27.740 been convicted of something doesn't mean that you didn't do it.

00:31:31.420 It's just the bar of evidence with our justice system is so high.

00:31:35.680 And if you listen to the podcast carefully, I planted some things there on purpose.

00:31:42.420 And one of them was the bankruptcy because they both swear under oath and talk about it.

00:31:47.660 And the other one is, um, Nancy, I'm sure you'll want to talk about this, Megan, but now Amanda

00:31:53.940 was taken to court by Nancy for civil harassment.

00:31:57.640 So Amanda tried to sue Nancy.

00:31:59.800 Vice versa.

00:32:00.520 Yeah.

00:32:00.720 Yeah.

00:32:01.000 Yeah.

00:32:01.240 It's Amanda tried to sue Nancy.

00:32:03.940 And that's a crazy thing.

00:32:05.420 Yeah.

00:32:05.620 And Corey again, took the stand and said that he was at every appointment with Amanda.

00:32:12.740 So there's lots of little things that I dot in on purpose.

00:32:15.680 If you listen to carefully, that will give you clues that maybe I'm not allowed to say outright.

00:32:23.020 Yeah, well, the beauty of, you know, being an American now, now you are, um, is you can

00:32:31.240 offer your opinion and, uh, that's it's protected as free speech.

00:32:35.640 And that is 100% my opinion.

00:32:37.220 So, but let's talk about, I'm ready about the, uh, yeah, I know the UK has much stricter

00:32:42.660 rules, um, about the, the lawsuit.

00:32:45.920 So Nancy is onto, um, Amanda, she's onto her.

00:32:51.660 She got the anonymous tip.

00:32:52.760 She starts looking into this woman's blog.

00:32:54.780 She starts noticing things like the hospital gown.

00:32:59.040 She's posting photos of doesn't actually match up with that hospital.

00:33:04.780 She notices little things.

00:33:06.240 She's a smart reporter and, um, starts sniffing around her, starts talking to the ex-wife

00:33:11.880 Alita, who's got other info and crazy ass.

00:33:16.080 Amanda sues Nancy.

00:33:18.700 She tries to get a restraining or that's how crazy this woman was.

00:33:25.060 Normally, like if, if a reporter's onto you, most people probably give it up, just like

00:33:29.820 close up your scam and move to another town.

00:33:32.640 She goes on offense against the investigative journalist and actually drags her into court,

00:33:38.520 trying to get a restraining order against her all while in role.

00:33:43.980 I am a cancer victim.

00:33:45.640 This lunatic reporter is after me and now completely upends poor Nancy's life to the point where

00:33:53.700 you don't know how the judge is going to rule in this court proceeding, whether he's going to see

00:33:58.120 the truth, what we think is the truth going into this episode, or whether he's going to actually

00:34:03.880 restrain Nancy from any further reporting on Amanda.

00:34:07.240 Yeah, I mean, I was just listening to when you were explaining it, because, um, I think, I, I understand, right?

00:34:18.280 This might sound weird, but I understand why Amanda did that.

00:34:21.560 If you get into her head a little bit, which is what I was trying to do.

00:34:25.340 And I don't know what this says about me, but, um, without putting myself across in the wrong way,

00:34:29.640 because if you've lied that long and you've got so many people adoring you and she did, um,

00:34:37.780 like I said, she was a local celebrity.

00:34:39.580 People knew her name and knew her story.

00:34:43.140 She's not going to stand there and run away or take it.

00:34:47.340 She's in too deep.

00:34:48.840 So I suppose, what do you do when you're in too deep?

00:34:52.080 You know, you go on the offense.

00:34:54.640 So she attacked.

00:34:56.120 She did sue Nancy, which she tried to.

00:34:58.300 She got a restraining order out against her and she accused Nancy of civil harassment.

00:35:05.100 And it could have in a way gone either way, because, um, something I try and show in the

00:35:11.580 podcast is, well, Nancy did call people.

00:35:15.780 She did try and find out information.

00:35:17.720 So what the thing about Amanda does, that's so clever because Amanda is very clever.

00:35:22.320 She uses some of the truth to try and showcase that because she said, you know, Nancy was

00:35:30.380 harassing and Nancy was calling people.

00:35:32.240 Nancy was calling family members, not as much as Amanda made out, but Nancy kind of was.

00:35:38.000 So you do wonder like, oh my gosh, and could she try and shut her up?

00:35:42.960 And because Nancy was part of the press, then obviously the laws here do protect, as you

00:35:47.480 said, freedom of press.

00:35:50.040 And so, but it was on a fine line.

00:35:52.700 And imagine if that would have happened.

00:35:54.780 And, you know, that was like two days of Nancy's time, nevermind of six months of preparation

00:36:02.620 and $200,000 as well of a court case.

00:36:08.240 And that would have ruined a lot of people.

00:36:10.980 And Nancy's worked in true crime for a long time, but Amanda could have ruined her reputation.

00:36:15.080 So you can see how deep this goes.

00:36:16.840 But she turns up the heat and then she turns up the heat again, because at that point, that's

00:36:23.760 when the police, the local police started looking into her.

00:36:26.800 And instead of stepping away, she goes forward.

00:36:29.520 So her MO in a way is to turn the heat up, to attack again, to go in even deeper.

00:36:36.540 And I do honestly believe it's because she kind of believes her own narrative and is in

00:36:42.600 too deep to be able to step away.

00:36:44.220 And I'm not going to label her because one thing I did want to point out, actually, I

00:36:48.920 don't want to go on a tangent, but I did really want to point this out is you mentioned Munchausen

00:36:53.220 syndrome and there's Munchausen by internet.

00:36:57.260 And one of the things I didn't do, which people have questioned, is I didn't talk about Amanda's

00:37:02.540 mental health at all.

00:37:04.440 And the reason why is because it was never brought up by the police in the case, by her

00:37:10.320 defence, in the sentencing, in any place at all.

00:37:14.500 So I thought it was really important that I didn't go and diagnose her because this is

00:37:19.520 also kind of textbook narcissist behaviour.

00:37:23.220 It's compulsive lying.

00:37:25.000 And I've, you know, we can get to it.

00:37:27.140 But I have spoken to Amanda.

00:37:28.420 I have met her.

00:37:29.280 I've had conversations with her.

00:37:30.280 And I genuinely believe that she believes her own lies in a way, maybe not at an unconscious

00:37:37.880 level, but definitely somewhere on a, you know, conscious level or convincing herself

00:37:44.080 otherwise.

00:37:45.080 And when somebody does that, my point is that they're not going to walk away and they're

00:37:50.100 not going to hide.

00:37:50.980 They're just going to go forward and make themselves the victim.

00:37:54.720 And that's what she did.

00:37:55.440 I mean, to the point of lying under oath and a bogus court proceeding against a reporter,

00:38:00.440 that's like now you really are, you know, you're compounding crime with more crime.

00:38:05.980 You know, you can be arrested for that, too.

00:38:07.580 She's lucky she wasn't prosecuted for that.

00:38:09.900 Corey, too, for that matter.

00:38:11.820 So you mentioned the detective who ultimately Nancy goes to and tries to get interested in

00:38:18.260 this in San Jose, because, you know, what's the point of all this other than, you know,

00:38:21.160 there needs to be accountability.

00:38:22.300 And this guy gets frustrated, too, like he he also is trying to figure this out and call

00:38:28.080 people's attention to it.

00:38:29.100 You think once it's in the hand of the police in San Jose, it's nearly over, but it's not.

00:38:35.100 But here's just a little from the podcast on Detective Martinez trying to figure out whether

00:38:40.760 she actually had attended this hospital City of Hope that she posted on.

00:38:46.100 Detective Martinez was waiting for a call back from City of Hope to confirm Amanda was a

00:38:51.500 patient there.

00:38:52.480 I sent them the blog that Nancy had sent me.

00:38:55.960 They took a while to get back to me, like a week.

00:38:58.280 So they gave me an email basically saying, no, she's not a patient.

00:39:03.060 She's never been a patient.

00:39:06.960 And that was from their legal department.

00:39:08.460 And I got chills because I was finally after all these calls or all these emails, this phone

00:39:17.620 conversation.

00:39:19.180 I have her.

00:39:21.020 I know she's a fraudster now.

00:39:24.100 And Charlie, just that moment, right?

00:39:30.440 It was so big because one of the things you do a great job of outlining is HIPAA prevented

00:39:36.720 the investigation of Amanda time and time again.

00:39:41.560 So just to get the one letter from the one hospital saying, no, she's never been a patient

00:39:47.160 here, was huge.

00:39:49.760 Yeah, it was huge.

00:39:50.780 HIPAA laws protected.

00:39:52.640 So one, we talked about wire fraud.

00:39:54.480 So how do you actually get somebody?

00:39:57.060 And Amanda's case was the first in its history in America.

00:40:01.420 It was the first of its kind in ever in IRS history.

00:40:05.260 And I have found out since the podcast released that the podcast is now being used as an example

00:40:11.860 for other police in different states, basically.

00:40:17.940 And I know there's another case going on somewhere else at the moment.

00:40:20.920 And it's being used to help them build a case, which is amazing that we could tell this story

00:40:27.520 and do that because it's so hard.

00:40:30.200 Because again, like I said, you can't put somebody behind bars for lying.

00:40:36.040 And she was protected by HIPAA laws.

00:40:39.680 So you couldn't access her medical records.

00:40:42.300 So what Detective Martinez had to do was try and ask questions in a way that wasn't giving

00:40:49.080 away her medical history.

00:40:51.080 And that was one of them.

00:40:52.820 Like, OK, was she a patient here?

00:40:54.600 Because she said on her blog, so it's like cross-referencing her blog and exactly where

00:41:00.140 she was.

00:41:00.680 She said she was a patient here.

00:41:02.340 So can you at least just tell me whether she was a patient there?

00:41:05.260 And because at one point they were both...

00:41:08.760 So Nancy became a source for Detective Martinez.

00:41:11.460 And then it just hit a dead end every time because they couldn't access.

00:41:17.320 The basic thing was to show whether she had cancer or not.

00:41:21.240 But then you think if she didn't have cancer, if she did have cancer, then you would just...

00:41:26.980 If somebody, you know, accused me, I'd just present them with my medical records.

00:41:30.240 But again, there's no evidence.

00:41:34.120 Even if she didn't, that's still not hard evidence.

00:41:38.200 And Detective Martinez did make contact with her.

00:41:41.200 And this is a funny story.

00:41:43.160 And again, shows her behavior.

00:41:44.840 And said, oh, you know, can you send me your medical records?

00:41:50.300 And she was like, yes, no problem.

00:41:52.360 And so she actually marched herself down to the police station with an envelope full of

00:41:57.260 her documents with doctor's letters in them.

00:41:59.380 Real doctor's letters.

00:42:01.140 The other interesting thing, and I'm coming from someone who wasn't raised in this culture.

00:42:05.760 So in the UK, we have the NHS and the National Health Service and our medical records are one.

00:42:14.620 So I can go to a hospital in London and then I can go to a hospital in the north of England.

00:42:20.720 Completely nothing to do with the London hospital.

00:42:23.040 And my medical records will, you know, they'll be able to access exactly the same thing.

00:42:27.900 Whereas in the state, you can go to a different state and a different hospital.

00:42:32.720 And nobody knows that you've just been in that other hospital.

00:42:36.420 So she would go from one hospital to another hospital and to one, you know, accident and

00:42:42.020 emergency to another accident and emergency.

00:42:44.820 So then nobody ever connected the dots because you don't share medical records.

00:42:50.680 I think that is something that's changing actually in the state of California.

00:42:53.620 So that's how she got real medical records.

00:42:56.200 That's how she got real medical records because she was faking it even with the doctors and in

00:43:01.160 emergency rooms.

00:43:02.720 Yeah, because she would.

00:43:03.740 So that's how she did it, which I think is important to talk about because a lot of people

00:43:07.780 are like, but how?

00:43:09.240 How?

00:43:09.720 And again, when I was speaking to all the people involved in her story, her friends or

00:43:16.400 former friends, some still believed her at the time.

00:43:18.960 So I had to be very careful, especially because Nancy was depicted as this like the enemy now,

00:43:24.480 this person who was vindictively going after this poor woman who's got cancer.

00:43:28.880 So I had to be so careful and be really independent when I was speaking to people because a lot of

00:43:34.440 people still believed her.

00:43:37.260 And it was because she people had seen her in hospital.

00:43:41.060 People had gone to visit her.

00:43:43.140 So so they're like, well, no, I've seen her.

00:43:45.280 She grew up from the hospital in the middle of the night one night.

00:43:48.100 Like she was definitely in the bed.

00:43:51.220 Exactly.

00:43:51.820 So you're like, who would you believe, Megan?

00:43:54.200 I think I'd probably believe Amanda because I've seen her.

00:43:58.080 I've sat by her bedside.

00:43:59.600 I've seen the IV tubes in her arm.

00:44:02.400 I've seen the hundreds and hundreds of selfies, her shaved head, losing her hair.

00:44:08.620 There you go.

00:44:09.120 The oxygen tube in her nose.

00:44:11.820 And, you know, the she collapsed and fainted in church and wet herself and was taken off by

00:44:18.000 an ambulance.

00:44:18.460 To me, that is proof and evidence of what this woman is saying.

00:44:22.520 So that's how complex and deep it was.

00:44:24.940 She flew to New York to a clinical trial.

00:44:27.460 That's what she said, but she did fly there.

00:44:31.340 And yeah, she went to.

00:44:32.500 So what did she do?

00:44:33.240 She just walks in like, hey, I'm here for the clinical trial, too.

00:44:35.980 And they give her the medicine, even though she doesn't have cancer.

00:44:39.180 I don't think she took part in the whole thing, but I think she definitely went.

00:44:43.240 Well, I know she definitely went to meet the consultant.

00:44:45.420 She signed up.

00:44:46.720 And yes, she got that far.

00:44:49.460 Oh, my gosh.

00:44:50.360 Which is mind-blowing.

00:44:51.300 You point out in the podcast, it's like kind of disturbingly easy to get admitted into the

00:44:56.660 hospital.

00:44:57.460 And to get medical supplies.

00:45:00.500 Like there's, you know, where does the doctor's office get its medical supplies?

00:45:03.780 There are stores you can walk into.

00:45:05.300 You can buy an oxygen tank.

00:45:06.780 You can do all sorts of things to make yourself look like you're actually in a medical facility.

00:45:12.340 Yeah.

00:45:12.660 And please don't do this.

00:45:14.180 Don't use this as a conversation to go and do this.

00:45:16.700 I was just thinking about that.

00:45:18.380 But yes, it's very easy.

00:45:19.440 Not a instruction manual.

00:45:20.080 No, please.

00:45:21.600 Yeah.

00:45:22.180 I, you know, I could go on the internet now.

00:45:24.720 I had a look.

00:45:25.240 I could go on the internet and I could order everything I needed to make it look like I

00:45:29.560 wasn't very well.

00:45:30.280 I could order a wheelchair.

00:45:31.260 I could order an oxygen tube.

00:45:34.420 You know, I could order bandages.

00:45:37.020 You can order anything.

00:45:38.160 And you can also walk into an accident and emergency room and get help.

00:45:43.240 You can say that you're dehydrated because you've got, you know, you're having chemotherapy.

00:45:48.400 You could say that you weren't feeling very well and they're not going to say, no, let

00:45:54.080 me check your records to make sure you have cancer.

00:45:56.320 They're going to treat you for what you're not for the cancer, but they're going to treat

00:45:59.400 you for dehydration, for example.

00:46:02.920 Yeah, it's an honor system.

00:46:04.300 I mean, we're not.

00:46:05.300 This isn't such a huge problem that the doctors and nurses are now like, oh, we've got to

00:46:08.800 make sure she's really got the cancer because this is a thing.

00:46:11.740 Yeah, it's an honor system.

00:46:14.120 And it was it was pretty easy for her to get these pictures, as it turns out.

00:46:17.720 But Nancy noticed something that was pretty telling about all these blog posts.

00:46:24.240 And this is where smart investigative journalism comes in.

00:46:27.840 Not what was there, but what wasn't there.

00:46:30.960 Here's soundbite six.

00:46:34.000 One thing I noticed right away is Amanda would talk about facilities or names of of the places

00:46:40.460 she was going, but there was never any mention of the actual doctors or nurses or the people,

00:46:47.720 you know, that were basically saving her life on a daily basis.

00:46:51.620 It was always very generic.

00:46:54.580 And that stood out to me as strange.

00:46:56.480 Right, because it's a different matter altogether.

00:47:00.660 When you say it was this doctor by name who treated me.

00:47:05.760 Now it's a lot easier to check.

00:47:08.640 Yeah, we there was things like you could zoom in in some of the pictures and see logos.

00:47:14.840 And you're like, hang on, does that logo match with where she says she is?

00:47:18.960 No, it doesn't.

00:47:19.620 You mentioned the hospital gowns.

00:47:21.520 And the other thing that I looked at was there's a picture of some pill bottles.

00:47:27.980 And I didn't notice this until halfway through making it, to be honest.

00:47:32.060 And I zoomed in and I was like, because I was cross-referencing things.

00:47:37.140 And I was like, oh, my God, there's a different name on that pill bottle.

00:47:40.380 But she turned it so you could only see like it.

00:47:43.280 But it was a man's name.

00:47:44.120 You could see the first few letters.

00:47:46.640 So, again, it's just it was just very well.

00:47:51.360 Very detailed and very well orchestrated.

00:47:54.700 It's you you put out a like a mashup of some of her lies, the actual Amanda, not the actress reading the blogs to promote the podcast.

00:48:03.280 I've got to play for the audiences.

00:48:04.400 It's entertaining and it gives them a feel for just the number of things she said.

00:48:08.260 Here's soundbite one.

00:48:10.580 My stage four refractory blood cancer patient.

00:48:13.200 I'm still a patient.

00:48:15.280 I'm a four time relapse.

00:48:17.080 I'm in a clinical trial right now.

00:48:19.080 I still have active cancer.

00:48:21.120 Technically a survivor, too.

00:48:22.660 I'm in the hospital all the time.

00:48:24.700 I'm traveling to New York for my clinical trial.

00:48:27.820 No, I'm a terminal patient.

00:48:29.520 I'm in a clinical trial just trying to buy more time.

00:48:32.280 I have a website.

00:48:33.160 So anybody interested in learning more about my story, just support Amanda dot com.

00:48:36.600 So anybody who wants to go on there and follow my story and root me on.

00:48:40.420 I love prayers and happy thoughts and anything else.

00:48:44.280 Oh, my God, Charlie.

00:48:46.120 It's so good.

00:48:48.040 Oh, God, we had a laugh making that.

00:48:50.700 I couldn't stop laughing.

00:48:51.880 I've seen that a million times and it still makes me laugh.

00:48:54.000 And I shouldn't laugh.

00:48:54.940 It's so well done.

00:48:56.500 There is a there is obviously like a seriousness under it.

00:49:00.780 But you just when you look at that, you it kind of fits home, I think, and puts it into perspective.

00:49:06.900 Her reference there to I'm a terminal patient reminds me of another strain in the show, which is about how she did infiltrate actual cancer support groups.

00:49:22.260 I mean, this is where it's sick and was working with the American Cancer Society on like, you know, not fundraisers for her exactly if memory serves, but just sort of, you know, let's beat cancer type events.

00:49:34.960 And they didn't know either.

00:49:36.700 You know, you in their defense, they don't.

00:49:39.280 Again, it's beyond her system.

00:49:40.600 If you go to them and say, I have stage four Hodgkin's lymphoma, they believe you.

00:49:45.500 They don't ask for medical records to make sure.

00:49:48.800 And she took advantage of all these good hearts.

00:49:51.480 Yeah, she really did.

00:49:53.400 And I think I think we've got to be careful that we don't end up living in a totally cynical system where because a few people and Detective Martinez actually said this to me.

00:50:06.560 Well, well, they should have checked or the church should have checked.

00:50:09.340 And where's their protocol?

00:50:10.300 And I was like, well, should they, though?

00:50:12.360 Because, I don't know, I'm a survivor myself of abuse, and I would hate to be questioned like that because we do live in a culture where we still sadly blame the victim.

00:50:27.840 And you shouldn't need you shouldn't for the people that genuinely need help, I think is what I'm trying to say, to walk in somewhere and these amazing charities and nonprofit organizations that do help so many people.

00:50:39.980 You shouldn't have to go through a checklist and show your medical records or prove that something's happened to you.

00:50:47.160 I think that's a really awful and sad world.

00:50:50.140 So I don't think it should be on them or on any because a lot of the people who I spoke to were like, you know, I don't consider myself a naive person.

00:50:57.980 Like, I'm not stupid.

00:50:59.580 I don't understand why I was taken in by this.

00:51:02.640 And I'm like, no, no, no, you're thinking about it all wrong.

00:51:04.820 It's not Hodgkin's.

00:51:05.920 It's not the American Cancer Society's fault.

00:51:08.740 It's not the Hodgkin's lymphoma society's fault.

00:51:12.260 It's not the church's fault.

00:51:14.060 These people, all the people that were victimized by her, these people are just that good.

00:51:19.280 Groomers and manipulators are that good.

00:51:22.000 They infiltrate society and do these things and spin a narrative as this charming and lovely person that's helping people.

00:51:29.300 And to go to your point is, well, she did fundraise and help people.

00:51:32.920 She even sent cancer patients packages because she said, I know what it feels like and I know what you need.

00:51:41.920 Which is obviously a lie, but she did send care packages to people that needed them.

00:51:49.860 So you're like, what's so fascinating about her is she was inspirational.

00:51:55.660 She did stand on stage.

00:51:56.800 She did offer hope to people, even though it was a lie.

00:52:00.460 But at the time, it inspired people.

00:52:03.020 It gave people hope in a situation that, you know, this was coming in, you know, but the back end of this was coming into COVID times.

00:52:11.220 And, you know, she inspired people and raised money for people.

00:52:16.260 So it's very conflicting.

00:52:18.160 It's one of the worst parts of it because it's like inspiration that you then find out is totally false.

00:52:23.720 And this is a fraudster is like you're going to be more cynical.

00:52:26.480 You just can't help it.

00:52:28.540 The IRS is ultimately who got her.

00:52:31.920 So, you know, we just had on the show these two IRS agents, these whistleblowers who investigated Hunter Biden.

00:52:39.640 And these guys know the law forward and backward.

00:52:42.260 They know exactly what you can and cannot do when it comes to raising money, wire fraud, all of it.

00:52:47.080 I mean, you do not want to get sideways with IRS agents.

00:52:50.400 And that's ultimately who got her.

00:52:52.480 The feds got her.

00:52:53.500 So they looked into this for a long, long time, got all the records and ultimately brought her to court.

00:52:59.820 And we don't need to speculate or couch whether she did it because she admitted it.

00:53:07.040 Ultimately, she pleaded guilty.

00:53:09.360 She admitted she never had cancer.

00:53:11.900 The whole thing was a fraud.

00:53:13.080 And she got one of the most remarkable prison sentences for something like this that we've ever seen.

00:53:21.800 Yeah, she got five years in federal prison with no appeal.

00:53:26.920 And it was Special Agent Lee, I'd love to give her a mention, from the IRS, who's amazing, who ended up taking her down, obviously, with the information from Detective Martinez and then backing that with the information that Nancy had collected and given to the police.

00:53:43.180 Now, the thing about that is it became very personal for these people.

00:53:49.540 So, again, you look at a few people, it wasn't a lot of money.

00:53:51.940 And it's like, that's not the point.

00:53:53.180 And for Agent Lee, we've all been affected by cancer in some way, whether it's through ourselves or our family and through a loved one or a friend.

00:54:05.740 And so Detective Martinez, it became very personal.

00:54:08.740 How could somebody do this?

00:54:10.460 She could be asking money from my family.

00:54:13.580 And then Special Agent Lee had someone close to her who had cancer.

00:54:18.380 And she was like, how can somebody do this?

00:54:20.000 So I think it was very emotionally driven, which I think is important to point out.

00:54:25.540 But, you know, Megan, you said about her saying that she didn't have cancer.

00:54:30.720 Now, this is what I find.

00:54:34.660 So I looked into this really closely and I played out the statement in the podcast on purpose, the full statement, because I wanted to showcase you exactly what she was like.

00:54:43.580 This is the statement she made to the court, read by actor Kendall Horn.

00:54:48.660 Your Honor, there aren't enough words to adequately express how horrific I feel and how sorry I am that this happened.

00:55:01.540 My heart aches every day thinking that I did something that hurt other people.

00:55:07.140 This is the worst thing I've ever done and the worst mistake I could have made.

00:55:15.040 I was there in the sentencing and I met her, I watched it.

00:55:25.860 And so I worked really closely with the actress, Kendall, who I brought on board to try and mimic exactly that.

00:55:32.220 So we had, you know, we were stood in this room recording and I was mimicking her, her body language.

00:55:37.960 Kendall was copying me because she didn't actually say that she never had cancer.

00:55:44.840 And she actually pleaded guilty.

00:55:46.440 Yeah.

00:55:46.820 She pled guilty in the end.

00:55:49.540 Initially, she didn't.

00:55:50.680 Initially, she didn't plead guilty until the very, very end, until she was backed into a corner where she had to because they had proof, like physical proof that she didn't have cancer.

00:56:00.720 But again, I find that so interesting.

00:56:03.080 The reason why I bring that up is because I have spoke to her and she thinks that she was victimized and she was targeted by Nancy and Alita.

00:56:16.460 Oh, my Lord.

00:56:17.360 Still.

00:56:19.020 Yes.

00:56:21.540 Tell it to your cellmate.

00:56:23.200 OK, the jig is up, Amanda.

00:56:25.360 I hate to tell you you've been caught and your guilty plea tells us everything we need to know.

00:56:29.780 So she's off.

00:56:30.880 It is a big sentence and it's a great sentence.

00:56:32.760 It's a totally appropriate sentence.

00:56:34.300 So the husband gets no charges for the reasons that you mentioned earlier, but they have two boys.

00:56:40.920 And what happens now?

00:56:42.540 Like, did they stay?

00:56:43.580 Are they still together?

00:56:44.620 She's in prison until what, 27?

00:56:47.980 Yeah, it's a good point you made, actually, about the sentence.

00:56:50.340 I'd love to bring that up because the recommended sentence was 12 to 18 months.

00:56:53.900 So you can see how hard the judge went on her.

00:56:56.180 Five years.

00:56:57.480 And that was in a courthouse in San Jose, which I believe you could probably inform me more.

00:57:02.620 I was fairly liberal.

00:57:03.540 So I think it was really unexpected.

00:57:05.760 And I remember sitting in the court and everybody just gasped.

00:57:11.840 But even the, you know, even the prosecutors, because I didn't think they thought that would happen.

00:57:17.060 And I feel like the judge was like, no, I can see through you.

00:57:20.600 And we need to show that this is not acceptable and it's not okay.

00:57:24.440 Make an example of you.

00:57:25.400 Yes, and the people that you've hurt.

00:57:28.200 And again, you know, we talk, I find the law very interesting because it's very old fashioned in a way.

00:57:33.760 It's very adversarial where it's about, you know, I don't know, belongings, money, you've stolen my property, this is mine, et cetera, et cetera.

00:57:41.340 And less about behavior, which is why it's harder sometimes to convict these crimes.

00:57:45.180 But I thought that was really important sentence to show that these things are serious.

00:57:49.880 They might not be your typical thing.

00:57:51.240 And a lot of it is an emotional trauma and damage, but that is as valuable, if not more, than materials.

00:57:59.560 So she did get five years in prison.

00:58:02.440 She's actually got a slight early release.

00:58:06.260 I think it's there's about 10 months off the last time I checked.

00:58:10.100 I presume that's for good behavior.

00:58:11.660 She's been in prison since September of last year, 2022.

00:58:16.700 Megan, you asked me about the boys.

00:58:18.240 Yes, she's got two young boys.

00:58:19.460 They are with her father, their father, Corey.

00:58:24.100 And I believe the parents are, as in Amanda's parents, are also helping look after the children.

00:58:32.280 But then you've also got a, you know, there's Jessa, who we mentioned, and that was the daughter who, that's Corey's daughter.

00:58:40.780 And Alita's daughter, who Amanda, they did get custody of for a year, who they called her bonus daughter.

00:58:47.340 Amanda, they have this, like, weird thing for names, yeah.

00:58:51.420 Miracle baby, bonus daughter.

00:58:52.920 Miracle baby, bonus daughter.

00:58:54.660 I mean, Amanda's mom referred to herself as goddess.

00:58:58.200 I mean, that, to me, tells you everything.

00:59:00.220 Please, she's another questionable character.

00:59:01.920 Absolutely.

00:59:03.660 Yeah, so you've got to think about these two young boys who thought that their mom was dying.

00:59:08.140 I mean, at one point, Jessa.

00:59:09.460 Right, thank you for raising that.

00:59:10.980 That's another thing you feel like, oh my God, she led her own children to believe that their mother had cancer.

00:59:16.380 Yeah.

00:59:17.440 Yeah, and that's when you start to go, okay, like, what?

00:59:24.480 She's a sick person.

00:59:26.380 Yeah, because at one point.

00:59:27.320 Not in the way she claims.

00:59:30.200 Yes, exactly.

00:59:32.160 They've got these two boys and Jessa, and at one point, the three of them were told that they might have to donate some of their own, you know, organs or blood.

00:59:44.060 Bloods and platelets, bone marrow for her.

00:59:50.020 There was no reason to do that.

00:59:52.480 Like, that didn't bring in more money, you know?

00:59:55.220 Right.

00:59:55.480 What was the reason behind doing that?

00:59:58.880 I mean, and also at one point, she was given money for a funeral that she'd planned.

01:00:06.900 Like, it goes so, I'm kind of like, I feel like I'm stuttering, but purely out of trying to bring to the audience, to your audience, how deep this went.

01:00:18.560 This was so much more than, you know, we called it Scamander, and it goes back to the question you asked me in the beginning, Megan, and you started talking about the title and giving things away.

01:00:27.520 And to me, the reason why I was, like, iffy with the name, because the name is brilliant and amazing and clever, was purely because, to me, it's so much more than a scam.

01:00:37.300 Yeah, it is.

01:00:38.480 I mean, you get into, like, the harm she did to her own children, the psychological damage.

01:00:44.060 And speaking of psychological damage, none of hers has been addressed.

01:00:47.660 She's not getting the help she needs in federal prison.

01:00:51.320 And so when she gets out, what do you think is going to happen?

01:00:56.060 I mean, I think she's going to go back to it.

01:00:58.140 I really do.

01:00:58.780 I think she's going to perpetrate another scam because it's inside of her.

01:01:04.500 She did it for too many years.

01:01:07.380 You know, she's pathological, this woman.

01:01:09.500 What do you think?

01:01:11.240 Million dollar question, right?

01:01:12.520 Because I suppose that's why I brought up that she, I don't think she believes that on a, I know this might sound like on a surface level.

01:01:23.300 I don't, you know, you know, deep down she might know, but, you know, we can separate ourselves, can't we, and convince ourselves of things.

01:01:29.660 I think we've all done that to an extent.

01:01:31.460 Obviously nothing like this.

01:01:32.600 But I always think of, like, relatable behavior to try and understand, which I think is important because it helps you maybe predict of whether somebody is safe or not.

01:01:42.820 And if she doesn't think she's really done something wrong and she feels like she's been a victim of this kind of witch hunt, again, from Nancy and Alita, then how could she possibly not, if she doesn't think it's wrong, how can she then redeem herself and change?

01:01:58.460 Exactly.

01:01:58.780 So that is, a lot of people think that she will, and I must tell you this, because when she was sentenced, she was originally raised in California and she was sentenced in San Jose and she perpetrated her scam, let's say, in San Jose, Northern California.

01:02:20.720 But then she moved to Texas afterwards, before she went to prison.

01:02:26.740 And we found out that she was going into hospitals even after she was sentenced because there was a gap of about, I'd say, three or four months before she went in prison.

01:02:40.680 So, I mean, what does that tell you?

01:02:44.600 And, yeah, I was kind of shocked myself, even though I shouldn't have been, because I spent so much time looking into this and making the show.

01:02:50.980 So, and then, you know, it does beg the question of, well, if she was still doing it after she was sentenced and called out and going into hospitals, but she also thinks that she's not, she thinks there is, she says there is something wrong and people don't know the full story.

01:03:08.200 So, I think that's why the judge put her in prison for so long and gave her a five-year sentence, because the judge said, I don't, I believe you're a threat to public safety, because I believe you're going to do this again.

01:03:22.000 And even when I spoke to, what I also find quite surprising with the people that I interviewed was how forgiving they were.

01:03:29.420 I don't think, personally, I would have been as forgiving or as kind.

01:03:33.600 You know, some people really, you know, didn't have a nice word to say.

01:03:38.980 Well, yeah, and I mean, it's so much to say, but.

01:03:39.000 It shows all these people in the faith community who are generally forgiving to begin with.

01:03:43.620 I wanted to say two things.

01:03:45.000 Number one, you've got to listen to the podcast to find out the extraordinary job that Amanda had and was promoted to during the midst of all of this.

01:03:53.560 I mean, if you think it's not happening in any town that you would ever frequent, think again.

01:03:59.660 It could be closer than you think.

01:04:01.400 So, I'll leave that as a tease for the podcast.

01:04:03.600 And the second thing is, this is a reminder to be very careful about those online GoFundMets.

01:04:09.380 You know, like, be careful before you, if you want to help people with cancer, you could consider St. Jude's.

01:04:15.580 You could consider making a donation to the American Cancer Society, but you should look at them, too, just to make sure.

01:04:20.720 There's an online charity website that will tell you how many dollars, how many cents of the dollar that you donate goes to actually help victims,

01:04:28.960 as opposed to, like, line the pockets of the charity organizers.

01:04:33.000 And those I always check those before I make a donation.

01:04:35.160 And I have to say, I almost never support a GoFundMe because I've just seen too many of these stories.

01:04:42.760 It's also why I don't give money to homeless people on the street.

01:04:46.260 You know, like, there is an unhealthy percentage of those folks who are scamming, too.

01:04:51.300 If you want to help, there are actual organizations who will make sure the money gets to the right person and people who are really suffering.

01:04:57.360 Nothing's foolproof.

01:04:58.800 But, you know, randomly going to supportamanda.com is not a good idea, as the podcast makes really clear.

01:05:06.760 And, you know, like, it just made me think about this era we're in as well with social media and what you can put out there.

01:05:15.340 You have to be careful what you believe and what you see.

01:05:18.240 But then I just feel so sad listening to you because I'm like, oh, God, maybe I'm just being too empathetic.

01:05:24.220 But I just feel sad that we're in that situation where you won't donate to a GoFundMe page because you're questioning whether that person is lying or not.

01:05:34.400 And then there's people that really do need support and help because I don't think it's as, you know, misfortune isn't something we necessarily bring on ourselves.

01:05:41.680 You might be brought up in a really tough environment.

01:05:45.220 You know, you might a lot of people that are on the street is through domestic abuse or through divorce.

01:05:50.140 But again, you know, who do you know who's real and really needs help and who doesn't?

01:05:54.240 And then Amanda just make this Amanda story.

01:05:56.640 I didn't want it to be a case where you then start to doubt people, but hopefully a way that can showcase these behaviors, because there are red flags that you can look out for and there are genuine people.

01:06:10.500 Yeah. I mean, you don't want to get to the point where somebody is like, I need a month leave of absence because I have some hideous cancer diagnosis.

01:06:17.840 And you're like, I'm going to need to see a note from your doctor.

01:06:20.940 Bob does have cancer. OK. All right. Now, you know, that's not how we've operated in our society.

01:06:26.840 And this problem is not so ubiquitous. We need to change that.

01:06:29.580 But when it comes to actually donating your money, do be careful.

01:06:32.300 We Yahoo responding to the huge popularity of Scamanda podcast.

01:06:36.900 Again, everybody should listen to it. It's such a good summer podcast.

01:06:40.580 You know, like you want something that's like, again, it's not frivolous.

01:06:43.900 As we've been discussing, it's quite serious. But Charlie does such a good job of presenting it in a kind of fun way to, for lack of a better word, you'll enjoy it.

01:06:52.000 In any event, it got their attention and they went on to talk about some of the many, many examples of people who have done this over the last few years who have been caught.

01:07:01.560 Just to tick off a couple tick tocker Madison Russo arrested, charged with defrauding four hundred and thirty nine people out of more than thirty seven thousand dollars after she faked a cancer diagnosis.

01:07:11.500 Nineteen years old, said she had acute lymphoblastic leukemia, stage two pancreatic cancer and a tumor the size of a football.

01:07:19.080 She was caught after people with a background in medicine pointed out discrepancy in her story.

01:07:24.800 Taiwanese fitness instructor Mian Bobo confessed she'd lied about having late stage pancreatic cancer for three years.

01:07:33.540 She, too, posted photos of IVs, the hospital, her alleged hair loss, just like Scamanda.

01:07:39.260 Her ruse was up after a man who said he was her ex-husband revealed it was a lie.

01:07:44.780 Rhode Island woman Sarah Jane Kavanaugh pretended to be a former Marine with cancer, received more than two hundred and eighty thousand dollars in donations and benefits over five years before she was caught in twenty twenty two.

01:07:57.200 This person went all in, said she was wounded by an IED in Iraq, developed cancer from the burn pits.

01:08:03.580 She got nearly six years in federal prison.

01:08:07.420 I mean, we could keep going.

01:08:09.180 So beware.

01:08:11.980 Come on, people.

01:08:13.700 You know, God, how do you think it makes people feel that really do have cancer and that have lost people from cancer?

01:08:21.380 Why would you ever want to use that as a thing?

01:08:24.420 But again, that's why they get away with it.

01:08:26.600 Well, maybe not because you've just read people that haven't.

01:08:28.780 So clearly they're not anymore, which is great, but it's again using that cancer ruse because you're not going to question somebody who says they've got cancer because it's awful.

01:08:37.300 So I think I'm sure you're already considering this because the show is such a success.

01:08:43.220 I think part two, you've got to find these other people like we need more stories just like this.

01:08:48.560 You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be one that hasn't been out there, but I would 100 percent listen to a podcast about this tick tocker Madison Russo and how she did.

01:08:55.540 But what's what's act two going to be for you now?

01:08:57.520 Because you've got to keep this going somehow.

01:08:59.760 I know.

01:09:00.200 I mean, I'm not short of stories.

01:09:03.160 I've actually had so many people contact me and that have had stories like this or actually there's a few people that I've looked into that haven't been caught yet.

01:09:15.320 And I'm seeing if there's something I can do around.

01:09:18.300 Yeah.

01:09:18.960 Where there's like evidence gathering or people are suspicious.

01:09:22.000 So I'm having a look into a few things.

01:09:23.840 But, yeah, if people have a story or want me to look into something, then please, along this line, then definitely please contact me.

01:09:32.900 You can contact me by my website or social media.

01:09:35.780 But, yes, I do have a little thing up my sleeve.

01:09:39.400 Good.

01:09:39.560 Because, again, people absolutely loved and really did enjoy it, which, you know, I'm so grateful for because I think, you know, you all know, Megan,

01:09:51.000 but I think people sometimes don't realize how much work goes in behind the scenes to put these things together.

01:09:56.760 And, you know, it took a long time.

01:10:00.440 And then to see and hear it being, I don't know, appreciated and received in the way it has just means everything.

01:10:07.560 Because I can create something.

01:10:09.220 And if you don't hear it and get this response, then it doesn't really mean anything.

01:10:14.100 And then it was funny because so many people have told me now different stories about Amanda.

01:10:19.840 And I did record a few bonus episodes.

01:10:22.020 I listened to them.

01:10:22.820 Oh, my God.

01:10:23.520 I was like, I have to tell this story.

01:10:25.540 And there was this poor, this teacher who actually left her teaching career because of Amanda.

01:10:31.760 I'll say no more.

01:10:33.260 And, gosh, in the end, I was like, please, please go back into teaching.

01:10:37.560 And actually, somebody messaged me earlier in the week who was like, if this woman, she was anonymous.

01:10:42.580 I can't say her name because she was slightly concerned because she's still in the community.

01:10:46.980 And believe it or not, there are still a few people supporting Amanda in that community.

01:10:51.500 Oh, my Lord.

01:10:52.040 Yes, exactly.

01:10:53.640 But the bonus episodes make one thing clear.

01:10:56.640 They remind me of something that I've known, which is people who do this kind of thing tend to have a long history of dishonesty.

01:11:02.920 It's if you just dig a little, you know, you go you went back to her college years and those are I'll leave that as a tease.

01:11:09.040 But there was a man I knew in New York City who was accused of not being a Bernie Madoff, but being like a mini Madoff.

01:11:17.620 And they it turned out this guy had he tried he's trying to pass to get it.

01:11:24.840 I think it's called the series seven exam where you get your license to participate in the financial industry in certain ways.

01:11:30.660 And it turned out he had had another person take the exam for him.

01:11:34.560 Now, that's what, 30 years earlier by this point.

01:11:37.740 But I'm telling you, like once you cross that ethical line, you stay on the wrong side of it.

01:11:43.100 It's like once you cross it, it's very hard to get back onto the other side where you were not a criminal.

01:11:51.680 It really is.

01:11:52.380 And it's just we've just seen it so many times.

01:11:54.220 So it's not it's you were right.

01:11:56.740 It was smart to go back once you realize what you had and see what else we could find in Amanda's past.

01:12:01.660 Listen, I am so happy to meet you, Charlie.

01:12:03.440 I'm so happy for the success of the show.

01:12:05.400 And I look forward to the next submission and the next scam.

01:12:10.580 I'll keep you updated.

01:12:11.800 Thanks so much for having me.

01:12:13.520 All the best.

01:12:14.500 Thank you all for joining me today.

01:12:15.980 I want to tell you that tomorrow we are going to bring you my interview with Governor Ron DeSantis, the very first time he sits down with yours truly.

01:12:23.620 I'd love to hear your thoughts about it once you hear it.

01:12:25.880 So make sure to send me a note after you watch at Megan.

01:12:29.240 Email me at M-E-G-Y-N at MeganKelley.com.

01:12:34.540 Talk to you then.

01:12:37.660 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:12:39.860 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:12:43.100 Thank you.

01:12:43.920 Thank you.

01:12:44.440 Thank you.

01:12:44.820 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 27, 2023

The Disturbing and Incredible Story of Fake Cancer Survivor ＂Scamanda,＂ With Host Charlie Webster ｜ Ep. 596

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