The Fallout From Racism Accusations： Two Real-Life Stories ｜ Ep. 65
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 56 minutes
Words per Minute
178.7872
Summary
Jane Doe speaks out exclusively on what she says was the shocking abuse her St. Louis school allowed her to suffer, all in the name of critical race theory and a racist approach to education. This is a real life victim of this insanity, or so her complaint alleges.
Transcript
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Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.
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Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater?
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Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
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Today, we have something extraordinary for you.
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A young girl, who we are calling Jane Doe, speaking out here exclusively on what she says
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was the shocking abuse her St. Louis school allowed her to suffer, all in the name of critical
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race theory and its racist approach to education.
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This is a real-life victim of this insanity we've been talking about on this show, or so her complaint
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At age 17, she was accused of a racist act by a classmate.
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She denied it, and all hell broke loose from there.
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As she walks us through, incident by incident, how her life started falling apart, and her
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school's indifference to any pain she suffered, allegedly.
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Her attorney happens to be a name you might know, Mark McCloskey.
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This is the guy who, along with his blonde-haired wife, was brandishing a gun in front of their
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home in St. Louis last summer, as a group of BLM protesters trespassed into his gated community.
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He and his wife were threatened, they were terrified, and they were ultimately charged
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with felonies for that moment, for defending their home.
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They were scared, they had their guns, apparently they weren't holding them properly, according
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But he's going to tell us not only about the lawsuit he has filed on behalf of Jane Doe,
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our guest, Mark is a lawyer in St. Louis, but where his own case stands and what's
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We know her real identity, but we're not going to make that public.
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She was a minor when this happened and has gone anonymous in the court pleadings.
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And at that time, I guess, and now, what year were you in in high school?
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And have you had generally a good experience at this school, Villa Duchesne in Missouri?
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I mean, I had somewhat of a good experience there, for sure.
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Help us understand what your life was there prior to all this.
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You know, just give us a general feel for life for you.
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So I played basketball, tennis, golf, lacrosse.
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And I thought I had a relatively good relationship with everyone.
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And I realize when you have a class of about 50 people, you know everybody really well.
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But you've been in school with them perhaps as many as 12 or 13 years.
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Or I've known the majority of them since eighth grade.
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And then a whole bunch of girls come freshman year as well.
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Um, well, I mean, I think like any school, you know, you find your friends who you're
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going to hang out with on the weekend, especially like since coronavirus, everyone's circles
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have gotten a little bit smaller and more like exclusive.
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But at school, everyone's friends and like everyone talks and helps each other out, especially
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because like if you're an athlete, you're playing on every team.
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I understand you come from a Republican family.
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Like where I am, there are no Republican families on the other side of Manhattan.
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But it's not unusual to be Republican if you go a little bit further out past St.
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And how did you how did you become a Republican?
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Well, my parents are great, but that's not really why I'm Republican.
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So anything that like I'm just interested in furthering like the pro-life message.
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We were online for the end of last year, but we're completely in person now.
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You have the option of going online, but you can't just you can't go online if you don't
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OK, OK, so as of September, you've been back in person in school.
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OK, so now as I read your complaint, you say that there was an incident starting on October
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10th, 2020, where you were informed by a fellow student that I guess there are three black
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young women in your in your entire grade and that one of them was accusing you of doing
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And this is how you learned about it from a friend.
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A friend came over and said, hey, you got to know this is happening.
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So what did your friend tell you was going on that you were being accused of?
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So we were at a sleepover and we're all sitting around the fire.
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And she told me like, hey, do you know what's going on at school?
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Well, you know what everyone's saying about you.
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And I was like, no, no one's ever like I kind of suppose it doesn't happen that much
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And she's like, yeah, well, my accuser came up to her in the common room, which is where
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like we're all allowed to like sit and hang out and was like, gosh, sorry.
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So but so my accuser, she got into my friend's face and said that I said I stood up in class
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And that I'm like and just like really like push that.
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And then all the girls in the common room at the time heard that and that she was calling
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me a racist and then a whole bunch of the girls in the common room were like, oh, we
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We're going to jump her in the parking lots like that started spreading.
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And then just like it started like spiraling all over the school and I just didn't know
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So, I mean, that had been going on for like two or three days by the time that I found
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And while I was like we're around the fire, other girls were like chiming in telling me
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And some of the girls that were at the sleepover, they were actually in the room when like my
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And the girls that were in there, they all know I didn't say anything.
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Hold on a thought because I want to I want to get there.
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But before we go there, how long have you known the accuser?
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Um, but, and I've always been very nice to her.
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I wouldn't say we were like friends, but she kind of causes a hard time sometimes.
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And when people give her too much trouble back, I always was sticking up for her.
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So when you say you felt bad for her, why is that?
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And I think that it would be a very like miserable life to live that upset, like in your own head.
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Even prior to this summer, George Floyd, I know, you know, all the schools have been reacting to that.
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But even prior to that, did you notice this thread with with the accuser?
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Since I've known her, she's always been just like, very like wound up and sad.
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And do you know, has she accused others in your grade or class of racist behavior prior to this?
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If she's like confused on something at math, she'll be like, oh, the math teacher is just racist.
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So you find out at this event with your friends, a social event that she has accused you of having stood up in a class, pointed at her and said, black lives do not matter.
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And, and, and apparently the class in which you allegedly did this was a zoom class.
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So does that mean it had taken place the previous spring?
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No, this took place in October and the class was in person, but we like, it's recorded on zoom for people who are not there.
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So not just, just forgive me because I don't totally understand the tech, but not every zoom class is recorded.
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So you're, but your school has made the decision to actually record the classes that they're offering via zoom.
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At this point, we were recording the classes, um, because if a girl wasn't there so that they could like keep it up.
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Cause some girls, um, like if they weren't there, they would just watch all the classes at night cause they were like out of town or something.
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Okay. Okay. So that seems like a pretty simple case, right? Like, okay, let's go back and look at the tape.
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I mean, was she specific on what day it happened?
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Oh yeah. I mean, it's like, that's the thing. Like it, the school knows I didn't say it. That's not the problem.
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The day it happened, like they all know that and the time and like, it's not that they don't know. I didn't say it.
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No, we, we asked for them to send us the tape and they said that they wouldn't send it to you.
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Had they admitted to you that the tape does not show you doing anything like that?
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I never asked that. I just, my teacher told me, or my, my principal, Ms. Steenberg, she told me that she knew I didn't say it.
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And I know I didn't say it. And my advisor, Ms. Lish, she's like, I didn't say it. So I know that the recording doesn't say it.
00:15:39.780
Well, I mean, the thing is, Jane, that if you had stood up in class in October of 2020 and, and pointed at a black fellow student and said, black lives do not matter.
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Am I correct in assuming that would have been a major deal in your school and in your class at the moment you did it?
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Well, yeah. The problem is, it's like, it's a major deal right now because I'm being treated like I said it.
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It's just upsetting because I didn't think anything was wrong for like, so like three or four days in which like the whole, that rumor of me saying it got spread.
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And then whenever, so then I'm being treated like that by not only people from my school that didn't know me or weren't in the room, but kids from other schools too.
00:16:32.920
Right. And it's knowable. I mean, that's the thing that's so crazy is in most situations, this would be a, she said, she said, but there are, there's a room full of witnesses who can tell us whether it was said.
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And there's even a videotape. And as far as you know, how is the class lined up? Like, is the class being asked? And I realize you're telling me the principal and the teacher have already said she didn't, she didn't say it, but like, has the class weighed in on this at all?
00:16:59.400
Yeah. So they have pulled in girls to like, when I say they, I mean, the principal has pulled in girls to talk to them and like, but they're saying that the girls aren't allowed to tell anyone that they're being pulled in and interrogated, including their parents.
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So it's like, I don't, they're not telling me that they're getting pulled in, but I've like heard snippets.
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And one of my friends told me she was pulled in one time. So like, I know that it's happening, but the school's making them not like the school's scaring them and telling them they're not allowed to tell anyone.
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But you, do you know, just from your private conversations that people have been telling the principal, Jane never said this, this isn't true.
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And just, just for the record, do we, do you agree that anybody who would say such a thing would be doing something totally outrageous?
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And I, I'm, well, let me ask you this way. Do you believe that black lives do matter?
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Okay. So you're, you're reeling. You find out with your friends in a social setting that this thing is going around about you. And especially in this political climate, I'm sure you understood the gravity of something like that.
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Even if you knew it wasn't going to be backed up by the video evidence, but I understand having gone through middle school and high school, I understand that's got to be damn scary.
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So your complaint alleges that threats began, even physical threats. Can you talk a little bit about those?
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Yeah. So girls were talking about jumping me in the parking lot. And that scared me really bad. And like that I needed to get smacked in the face was one that I kept hearing. And like, um, like she needs to be taught a lesson.
00:19:00.700
My house was threatened to be vandalized, which it later did get vandalized. My, um, and like my accuser, she's in her English class and she started like getting riled up about this. And she was like, I already told my mom, I don't care if I get expelled. I'm going to.
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She was like, she was like making fist punching motions and just like threatening me. And it was like, also in addition to like the physical threats, like socially, the girls, like the majority of the girls at my school, um, there was like a lot of girls in there at the time who were like defending me and everything.
00:19:42.540
But like the social aspect of this, of like kids from other schools who don't know me, but know my name or like who can find me on Instagram or whatever. That's like another scary thing. Cause like Villa's just girls, but I don't know. Being labeled as a racist is a really dangerous thing to be labeled as, especially when you didn't do it.
00:20:05.520
Hmm. Oh my goodness. So I assume you told your parents about this. Yes.
00:20:13.340
Yeah. I didn't tell my parents right away because I was, well, how it happened was that my friend told me and like my friends were telling me what was happening. And then, um, I, we were actually camping. So I, we were having a really good time. So I kind of let it go and then I couldn't sleep. So then I emailed my
00:20:34.620
principal right away, like at night. And that was like way before I told my parents, I told my parents when I had gotten home, like later the next day, but I told my, like contacted my principal first.
00:20:49.400
And so I understand that the principal on October 13th, again, going from your complaint, uh, arranged a meeting between you and her. And, um, you, you told her what you were hearing was being said about you. And she set up a second meeting for that same day between you, your accuser, your teacher and her, the principal. Is that correct?
00:21:14.020
Um, yeah. I mean, she didn't really set up the first meeting. She never responded to my email, um, that I sent her like three days prior about what was happening to me, where I told her like in the email, I told her how there was physical threats being made to me.
00:21:31.020
And like that my house had been vandalized and that, or like the threats of vandalized. Oh wait, no, my house hadn't been vandalized. And like that there was a zoom and that like what she said, and then she wouldn't meet with me the next day. Or like when I, we got back to school, which it was a long weekend. That's why there was so many.
00:21:51.180
And so I, and so I like literally forced myself into her office to try and meet with her. Cause I realized like time is of the essence here. And then I asked to meet with my like accuser and my advisor. And so then we had a meeting later that day.
00:22:14.420
Wiss. Okay. And this is also the person who was the teacher during the alleged class.
00:22:19.700
Okay. So you do have that meeting on October 13th and I know there's an allegation and a complaint about what happened right before you went into the meeting. You overheard something allegedly in the stairwell. What was that?
00:22:32.800
Oh yeah. Um, uh, one of the girls, uh, my accuser's friend said, do you want me to face that bitch with you? And I like heard that while I was walking up the stairs, which freaked me out.
00:22:47.100
And the accuser's friend is also a black student.
00:22:52.480
Okay. So, so there's a threat that you hear before you go in allegedly. And now you walk into the meeting, which I'm sure felt tense. And what happened?
00:23:02.380
I just forgot to say something before, but in the meeting that I was with it, when it was just me and my principal, Ms. Stainberg, uh, she was incredibly supportive of me. And she was like, yes, I know you would never say anything like that. I know you didn't say it. Um, we're going to fix this. Like she's so, so supportive.
00:23:24.040
So I went in upset, but with like the confidence that I had, my principal support and like, I was going to be vindicated that you're going to be supported and backed.
00:23:36.520
Yeah. I really did think I was going to be supported. So whenever we go to the meeting, it was super awkward because it was just me and the girl for like 10 minutes because my principal and was late.
00:23:49.860
And the advisor just left, or Ms. Swiss left because it was so awkward. So we're just sitting there staring at each other. Um, anyway, that's just nothing was said.
00:24:07.400
Yeah. And then finally Ms. Stainberg comes in and she start, or like whenever, like she starts out with like,
00:24:17.780
so there was a situation in your class and then the, my accuser, she starts like being like,
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I can't believe you'd be lying right now. It's like all direct to me. And she's like raising her voice,
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getting really upset. She's like, I can't believe you'd lie right now. Like, I just cannot believe you're
00:24:37.960
doing this. Like, and then she's, she denied saying anything, like making any of the statements about
00:24:43.820
me. Like she then like, well, she was contradicting herself the whole entire meeting, like saying she
00:24:49.540
did by the end. But, and she was like, calling me and she's like, you know, you're racist. You're
00:24:57.240
the biggest racist in school. You're in love with Trump. You have Trump screensaver, socks and poster.
00:25:03.760
Everyone knows all Trump supporters are racist. And she's just like, really like upset. And I kept
00:25:10.460
trying to like, bring it back to, I was like, this is just not a political thing. Um, this is just a,
00:25:17.220
you made a lie that's making my reputation or you said something that's a lie that's making my
00:25:23.500
reputation bad. And like, I'm just trying to fix the lie. Like all this is like a political thing
00:25:29.320
aside. Like, this has nothing to do with politics. I don't have like a Trump screensaver or any of that
00:25:34.100
stuff. It was weird that she was saying all that. And she's like pointer finger in my face and like
00:25:39.560
loud and like calling me a liar, that I'm the fakest pro-life person she's ever met, that I
00:25:45.040
constantly devalidate her life and the lives of the two other, um, African-American girls at my
00:25:52.120
school. And that, um, I have a police support flag on my computer and that it's like further showing
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how big of a racist that I am. Every time that that was being said, I kept, I kept trying to bring
00:26:04.080
it back to the actual lie. And Ms. Steenberg isn't saying a word and I'm crying. And then
00:26:10.140
Ms. Wiss, she like looks over at me and she knows, like she was there and she's like, you need to
00:26:16.780
realize that having a blue lives matter flag is racist. And that it was made to crush the black
00:26:24.340
lives matter movement. Simply having that sticker, I need to expect to be treated like a racist and
00:26:30.840
that I'll never understand the pain of like people of color. I just need to accept that.
00:26:37.820
Um, and then she asked the girl, if I took the sticker off my laptop, would she feel more
00:26:44.980
comfortable? And she's like, no, she's still racist. That's never changed.
00:26:50.040
Can I just ask you what were the, what, first of all, what did, I know there was a dispute about
00:26:54.300
whether it was in fact a blue lives matter flag or something else. Can you talk about that?
00:27:00.840
The police support flag is what I have been calling it because like, that's why I have
00:27:08.160
it. Like I have family members that are police officers and I, um, really respect them. And
00:27:15.140
so I said that and the girl, like her dad's a police officer. So I didn't think that, oh yeah. And
00:27:25.280
it's like a flag with a line and a blue line in it. So it's not, there is a, like, there is an
00:27:31.200
actual blue lives matter flag that, um, it doesn't just have one blue line. I think it's got
00:27:36.880
many. And I can't remember obviously black stripes and blue stripes, but anyway, so the, but the point
00:27:42.320
is you were trying to show your support for police and was that placed on there after the whole BLM and
00:27:49.280
the summer and all that, or had it been on prior to that? It has been on there for a really long
00:27:53.400
time. It like, I, I don't actually know when I put it on there, but let me ask it this way.
00:27:59.300
What, why did you put it on there? I put it on there just because my uncle and my cousins
00:28:06.180
have just, are just sharing their experiences. And I'm, I'm really proud of like the way that
00:28:12.620
they've led their life for their family and like to protect all of us. I just think it's a very
00:28:20.960
honorable job that they've been doing. And did you, did you worry at all when you put it on there
00:28:28.600
that it might be seen as provocative by, you know, some other students, especially the black students
00:28:34.480
in, in light of what was happening in the country? I didn't really worry that much about it
00:28:39.240
because they all have like black lives matter stuff on their computers. They do. So you're allowed
00:28:44.980
to sort of take a, a stance on issues that are, you know, charged racially and politically in your
00:28:51.320
school. Well, I mean, I guess I did worry a little, like one of my friends told me that like my
00:28:57.620
friends, they all, it's a little bit different because for those types, like black lives matter and
00:29:04.240
stuff, like you're allowed to wear that stuff at school and you would not wear, like, you wouldn't
00:29:10.540
wear something about like guns or anything like that. Like, or the blues, like police support,
00:29:17.320
you wouldn't wear that at school. So. Would you wear, would it, would anybody wear like a MAGA hat?
00:29:22.220
No, no. How about Joe Biden? Like what were people openly supporting him?
00:29:28.460
Like, okay. So that's interesting. Uh, so sort of one view is being allowed, but not all views were
00:29:35.920
being allowed. Yeah. All right. So, I mean, I, I understand that. I mean, I have to tell you,
00:29:41.180
like, I get that. I, I have police in my own family of whom I felt very defensive when these massive
00:29:47.140
sweeping statements about cops, all cops being racist and wanting to hurt or kill unarmed black
00:29:55.420
men were being pushed is I just, I know it's not true. There may be a problem in some circles with
00:30:00.500
policing, but I understand the need to support them in a way that doesn't diminish the experience
00:30:07.120
of black people, right? It's like, you don't want to be forced to choose a side. It's not about
00:30:11.280
choosing a side. It's about saying the narrative isn't correct. At least this is my case. The
00:30:15.100
narrative isn't correct that you're pushing and we have to get real about what the facts are. And I
00:30:19.720
don't mean to put words in your mouth, Jean. I just, I don't mean to make you feel uncomfortable
00:30:24.160
about putting the flag on your computer. I just recognize this. I think you do now that,
00:30:28.260
that that would be likely to turn into an issue. Yeah. I was surprised in the meeting. I did say,
00:30:33.880
I was like, I, of course I don't support police brutality. Like that is, I would never support
00:30:40.040
police brutality. I'm supporting the good police. More with our guest in just one second. And we'll
00:30:46.820
also bring in Mark McCloskey in our next little bit. But first let's talk about Zip Recruiter.
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00:32:03.440
And so your teacher, Ms. Wiss, basically told you that your sticker was evidence of racism and
00:32:15.720
that you should have realized that and you should expect to be treated like a racist.
00:32:23.300
Well, I was crying and my principal was like, well, I think we had a very constructive conversation here.
00:32:32.420
And then I stood up and I like, and we all left. I like ran, like it was, I was not a constructive
00:32:42.240
conversation. Like I was being screamed at for the whole time. So I would, so, oh, the bell rang and
00:32:49.120
then she wrapped it up and said that. And I mean, that meant me and the girl had to walk out into the
00:32:58.120
same parking lot at the same time. And she's walking out happy as a clam because she just got
00:33:04.700
away with that. And she's telling her story to everyone. And I walk out like sobbing. I had to
00:33:11.440
stop on a tree because I thought I was going to throw up. Everyone sees that. Like then it is like
00:33:17.780
for like how upset I was and how happy she was made it look like by not like ever saying what she did
00:33:27.200
didn't happen. And like, it just really made it look confusing to everyone else.
00:33:32.340
So they just sat there and let her hurl the allegations without saying,
00:33:35.400
yeah. Madam accuser, we, I, Ms. Wiss was there and she didn't say it or we've been speaking to
00:33:42.340
people in the class and she didn't say it. They didn't say anything.
00:33:45.500
No, they didn't say anything, especially after Ms. Steenberg told me earlier that she knew I didn't
00:33:51.960
say it. She didn't say anything. And she's trying to act like that was a constructive conversation.
00:33:58.040
So can I ask you just a couple of questions? Cause in your complaint, you alleged that in that meeting
00:34:01.840
you were subjected to a verbal and physical assault. What was the physical assault?
00:34:06.720
It was the, like the gestures that, um, uh, the accuser was making, like just really like
00:34:13.960
in my face. Okay. So she didn't actually lay hands on you.
00:34:17.760
No, no, there's no hands on you. Okay. And then you, your house at some point was indeed
00:34:23.980
vandalized. You say, what happened to it? Um, we had a Trump sign in my yard and it was like
00:34:32.700
destroyed. So then time passes, you know, some time passes, let's say, I think it was 10 days
00:34:41.040
and you get pulled out of class again. Um, and you get brought down, I think to Ms. Steenberge,
00:34:48.960
the principal's office again. And there, there's going to be another meeting now that you didn't
00:34:54.200
expect. It's got some other parties in it, but notably it doesn't have your mom, your dad,
00:35:01.260
your lawyer, who they admit they knew you had hired by that point to help protect you.
00:35:05.480
And I wonder like, to me, that just sounds outrageous at the point that you'd involved
00:35:11.520
a lawyer and they knew that this was becoming a thing that they wouldn't include any grownup for
00:35:18.120
you. That just sounds incredible. Especially after like, I kept asking for my mom the whole entire
00:35:24.760
time. I was asking for my mom and I asked for my lawyer and they would not let me leave. They
00:35:30.000
wouldn't let me bring anything. And like, I didn't want to even leave the class. You're discussing
00:35:35.040
final project. And so like, that was like 10 days after the meeting that I had where the girl was
00:35:42.880
yelling at me and like threats were getting worse at that point and they weren't responding to my
00:35:47.600
parents. So like I, and like my principal before that meeting, she had like, I was crying in the
00:35:57.380
hallway and I was crying in the bathroom and I realized, okay, you've been crying for a while now.
00:36:04.600
I mean, like I could barely think at school. I was so scared. Like my friends would walk me in and
00:36:09.400
out of school and to each class. Like I was, I was such a wreck. And because I'm like, my school
00:36:16.860
didn't help me at all. So my principal saw me in the hallway with like all my like tears on my face.
00:36:23.260
And she like pulled me into her office and told me I was mentally unstable and I needed to be able to
00:36:28.740
deal with trauma like this. And like that, this stuff happens. I just need to be able to deal with
00:36:35.220
it. So like that happened. And my, and my parents kept like trying to contact the school. And so
00:36:41.640
like whenever I got pulled in on the October 23rd and it's like three administrators and me
00:36:49.400
and them like screaming in my face and me not being able to have anyone to support me was scary.
00:36:56.820
So you're telling me you were saying, can I please call my mom? Can I get my mom down here? And they
00:37:03.620
Yeah. They were like, no, we need an answer from you now.
00:37:09.120
There was a variety of questions. So like they, so like whenever, yeah, whenever,
00:37:16.860
when, sorry, I'm thinking it was very upsetting. Um, so whenever the meeting started, um, Miss
00:37:24.180
Deanberg said that she's like, Oh, we got a letter from your lawyer. And I had no idea that there was
00:37:30.080
any threats to your physical safety, which is like a lie right off the bat, which I knew this was
00:37:35.400
going to be a horrible meeting, right? When she says that, cause that I, she knows that I said that
00:37:40.300
my first email and all the like meetings with her and she's, um, so then at like, she's like, we need
00:37:50.700
to, um, they were like, we need to come up with a solution for this. I was like, well, I just need
00:37:57.260
to talk to my mom. And then, then things started to like heat up and, um,
00:38:05.400
my principal was like, you need to realize that you are racist and that like everyone who's white
00:38:12.600
is racist. Uh, I'm racist cause I'm white and she is white. And then, but the whole meeting was like
00:38:20.320
mainly, um, led by Mrs. Morrow, who is, um, who used to be my basketball coach. She's African-American
00:38:28.860
and like the fact that she was even in the meeting was like, it was just strange. And then there was
00:38:34.800
also my, uh, she's a Dean of students now, I think. Um, or not, she's like the Dean of excellence.
00:38:42.620
We got a whole new bunch of new roles, but, and then Mrs. Catherine was also in the meeting
00:38:48.360
and Mrs. Morrow was really angry and she was like, like karate chop handing to me, like hand gestures
00:38:57.260
to me. And like, she was, she was like, you need to say that you feel safe. Like, tell me you feel
00:39:01.760
safe. You feel safe. Say it. This is a yes or no. Say yes or no. And I was like, I don't feel safe.
00:39:08.560
And she's like, what percentage do you feel safe? And I was like, I don't feel safe. And she was,
00:39:12.880
and then she was like, say you're racist. You're like, you're white. Like you need to realize that
00:39:18.180
all white people are racist. And then like, she was trying to say that she was trying to get,
00:39:23.400
she was like, say, Oh, she was saying like, if you won't tell me, tell me the names of the girls
00:39:30.200
who are making you feel unsafe. And I, after they were like, kept trying to tell me that I was racist.
00:39:36.140
And I like, like every time I got a break, I would say no, like I want to, my mom. And they just kept
00:39:42.620
saying no. And so then they were trying to get me to say that because I, I, sorry, I refused to get
00:39:54.380
the names of the people who were making me feel unsafe because I have already given those names
00:40:01.640
to them and like prior emails and conversations. And like, it's not like this was any new information.
00:40:10.200
And at this point they're like in my face telling me I'm a racist. Oh, and right when the meeting
00:40:16.280
started, Ms. Mara told me like, yeah, the girl, like my accuser, yeah, she's not getting punished at
00:40:22.500
all. So I just want you to know that. So like, I just knew nothing good is coming out of this meeting
00:40:28.560
for me. And so then, so she's trying to get me to say that, um, I'm lying about the
00:40:40.180
physical threats and that my dad's putting me up to this and that this is all actually all in my head
00:40:47.340
and that I'm over all of this and that none of this matters to me anymore. And I kept having to
00:40:53.400
like defend myself and saying like, no, it does matter. Like, I'm not over this. Like, this is not
00:40:59.300
a lie. And then my friend who had, who the accuser had actually said the like statement to, they're
00:41:08.220
trying to get me to say that she was not a credible source and that she's lying.
00:41:14.980
Wait a minute. But just to back up, just to back up in that first meeting that you had with the
00:41:18.420
principal and the accuser, didn't the accuser ultimately stand by that allegation anyway and
00:41:24.880
say she did say it? Yeah, but, um, she did say that. Unfortunately, like at that point, it just
00:41:32.080
nothing mattered because she had said that she didn't say it. And then she said, she said it. And
00:41:36.020
obviously the teachers are like, didn't care. So nobody was paying any attention really to the
00:41:43.300
original allegation, which was by the accuser against you, uh, an allegation that, you know,
00:41:51.040
allegedly will not be proven out by the videotape or the witnesses who are in that class. That's all
00:41:56.360
been abandoned. And now it's an effort to get you to stand down and your complaints about getting
00:42:02.360
bullied, the house getting vandalized, getting besmirched as a racist. It's all about getting
00:42:09.140
you to drop all of that. Yeah. And I actually was saying stuff in the meeting, like, because
00:42:15.920
there is like a strange dynamic, like I am a kid. So, um, like these are my teachers who I'm supposed
00:42:24.920
to respect. But like in that meeting, I knew everything had changed. Like they were sent in
00:42:30.460
the meeting to get me to say some things because it was no longer like, cause whenever I had to hire
00:42:36.340
a lawyer to get them to, or my family had to hire a lawyer to even get them to respond,
00:42:40.860
then they were given the task to get me to say some things so that they could like,
00:42:48.100
I don't know, clear their own name. Like, cause the way they were talking was not the way that they
00:42:52.220
were talking prior to this meeting. And so like in the meeting I said, like, if this was, I was like,
00:43:00.760
you guys are literally, I can't believe this is happening right now. Like I seriously cannot
00:43:04.900
believe that this is happening. Like if this was a different situation and there was someone going
00:43:11.180
around calling me a slut and that I'm such a whore and just ruining my reputation and I brought it to
00:43:16.020
the school, you guys, I know I'm confident that you guys would do something to help me, but because
00:43:21.040
this is a race issue and she's black, you're too scared to help me. And like, I just can't believe
00:43:28.060
that this is happening. And they were like, yeah, I did. And then, uh, yeah, what did they say?
00:43:34.640
They were saying like, you have to understand, like my accuser is hurt and hurt people hurt. And I said,
00:43:41.480
I understand that she's hurting and I've always felt for her. Um, but let's get her help instead
00:43:48.860
of like allowing this kind of behavior, because if she goes out into the world and continues to do
00:43:54.220
this, it's never going to help her. She's never going to be able to succeed. Like if, because
00:43:59.480
she's hurting, like, let's get our like school therapist to help her. Like she needs to be able
00:44:04.180
to deal with emotions like this, but she cannot make up lies about people who didn't do stuff like
00:44:09.140
this. And you guys can't just like allow it to happen. And, um, after that, nothing got better
00:44:15.740
for me. They continue to like, try and get me to admit that I was over it. So, and did you admit
00:44:25.100
that by the way, did you admit any of the things they wanted you to, that it was all in your head,
00:44:28.820
that your, that your witnesses were lying? No. None of that. And let me just ask you for the record,
00:44:36.040
do you have any history of mental problems or, uh, have you ever been accused of being a serial
00:44:41.980
fabulist of somebody who makes things up stories over and over? No. And have you, have you had any
00:44:49.080
problems at the school prior to this? Have you, have you been on probation? Have you been suspended?
00:44:53.340
Have you had issues like disciplinary issues prior to this? No. Okay. And I should, I should note for
00:44:58.500
the record at this point that these are allegations and the other side hasn't, hasn't been,
00:45:03.860
I mean, we invited them and of course offered them the chance to weigh in on all of this. Um,
00:45:09.680
they declined. They do deny the allegations. I'll, I'll read their statement in just a bit,
00:45:13.900
but they, um, they, they say these are unproven and they're not true. So that, you know, they're,
00:45:18.880
they're going to fight it in court and they're going to fight it in the court of, of public opinion
00:45:21.960
too. I might as well just read it now since I'm pausing. This is what they gave us, Jane. They said,
00:45:26.920
um, dated February 8th, a lawsuit was filed against our school in late December,
00:45:31.020
2020 regarding allegations of discrimination. While it is not our policy to publicly discuss
00:45:35.980
the details of lawsuits involving our school, we dispute the allegations made in this lawsuit.
00:45:41.240
And the complaint is full of factual inaccuracies, distortions, and conversations taken out of
00:45:47.780
context. Our primary focus remains on our mission of providing an excellent sacred heart education.
00:45:54.760
While conflict is inherent in a school that fosters dialogue and analytical thinking,
00:45:58.860
we strive for relationships characterized by inclusion and mutual respect. We love and care
00:46:05.100
for each and every one of our students signed Michael F. Baber, head of school,
00:46:09.940
village of Shane and Oak Hill school. Any thoughts on that? Um, yeah, I mean, they have like a rule book
00:46:20.680
that they're not following. It's just really like, this is upsetting to me that this is still going on
00:46:26.360
and that like literally just an apology would have ended this and that like, they're allowing this
00:46:32.620
kind of thing to happen. They actually, during that meeting, um, Ms. Kaplan was taking, well,
00:46:40.440
she kept telling, like, I wasn't asking. She was on her computer the whole entire time. And she told me
00:46:45.060
like three times that she wasn't taking notes. Like, it's not about this. Don't worry. And then
00:46:51.100
after the meeting, my lawyer gets sent like a whole bunch of notes from the meeting that don't have,
00:46:59.260
like the majority of the meeting, the other, or Mrs. Morrow was talking. It wasn't me. And it,
00:47:05.540
the notes have my words taken so out of context or not like things I didn't even say. And like,
00:47:14.280
just like one question and not all the stuff that they said to me. So like, I, that's just,
00:47:23.040
I like, after I heard that, after that happened, I was really, really upset because I just couldn't
00:47:28.780
believe that they would take my words and like twist them like that. Like I'm a kid. I don't,
00:47:32.920
I didn't have any defense. I kept asking for someone like, I, and like, I was like trapped in
00:47:38.360
there. Like I didn't want to be in there. Do you believe what you are suggesting that
00:47:42.640
they're treating you differently and your accuser differently because you're white and she's black?
00:47:48.600
Yeah. They said that they've been saying like, you have to understand like, this is a
00:47:53.580
difficult issue because of race being involved. How has this affected you?
00:48:00.360
This has been like really upsetting to me, obviously, because I'm like scared at school.
00:48:06.300
And I mean, I'm really lucky to have like a really supportive parents and like some really
00:48:14.620
great friends, but like people are like commenting on my Instagram to kill myself and that like,
00:48:22.260
I need to die and all this stuff. And like a whole bunch of girls at school, like school,
00:48:27.740
like good girls all used to say hi to me in the hallway. Now they just like look down.
00:48:31.440
So unless like, you know, the whole story, which it's so hard for me to tell the story. Like
00:48:37.780
it is so hard for me to get all this like information out. It's been so traumatic for me.
00:48:43.280
All you're hearing is a story that my accuser has given out, which makes me like, obviously like the
00:48:51.160
girls are thinking that I said that if they didn't know my, like they didn't hear what I said,
00:48:56.880
the other thing. Yeah, I said that. Do you feel like as your school states in this statement to us
00:49:03.060
that they are striving for relationships characterized by mutual respect?
00:49:09.620
Absolutely not. They're just trying to avoid the problem.
00:49:13.500
Well, they say they love and care for each and every one of their students. Do you,
00:49:19.420
Um, I do not feel like the administration love and cares for me, but, um, there is like one teacher
00:49:28.700
who's been incredibly nice to me. Um, who like he was whose class I got taken out of, um, to go to that
00:49:38.400
meeting. And also I was like a Kairos leader, which is our, like, it's like a senior retreat. So I like
00:49:46.460
led one of the retreats and I was writing to talk with him and he like, he has been so supportive of
00:49:54.020
me. He's like, he always is like offering out his like prayers and trying to talk to me and make sure
00:50:01.240
that everything's okay. Because like, um, he just knows how much this has been affecting me. And
00:50:10.600
And what happens now in the hallways? Like, do you, do you and your accuser see each other? What's
00:50:29.500
Um, the dynamic is so much different. Like I used to be like,
00:50:35.520
I like, um, like for example, I started ping pong club this year and it was like the biggest club
00:50:46.540
at Villa, like the big, biggest club ever to like happen. And I'm like super excited about it.
00:50:54.080
Now, like the thought of emailing my whole school makes me nauseous. Like there's so like, I, there's
00:51:00.840
no way I could like clear my name to the whole entire school. Like there's like all these
00:51:09.380
underclassmen, all these girls that don't know me that, cause like, I just don't know underclassmen
00:51:16.260
because we haven't been doing sports like we used to. So like, there's no way for me to like get,
00:51:21.240
like not even all the girls in my grade know what fully happens. So, um, like it's just,
00:51:28.820
I'm not like, I used to be able to talk to anyone and now I'm like, I can't. And, um,
00:51:35.020
it's like, it's just really upsetting because the school told me that they would make an
00:51:43.060
announcement clearing my name and they said that they're not going to do that. And so like, I can't,
00:51:48.640
like, I just want this to be over and I don't, yeah.
00:51:51.520
Well, I mean, that's where the law comes in. That's, that's why we have the law and juries
00:51:59.860
and judges to run a fair procedure where you can't just say, you know, we don't care what the
00:52:07.100
facts are. That's the, the courts are still the one area in which that is not okay to do. And this
00:52:13.260
seems like a good place to bring in Mark, your lawyer. Um, don't go away cause I'm not, we're not
00:52:18.860
done. I'd love to keep you in this conversation too. Mark, thank you for joining us and for making
00:52:24.120
Jane available too. It's heartbreaking. It's just so, it's so damn sad. And it, it makes me so angry
00:52:30.900
because these school administrators, I mean, unless Jane is pathological and has made this up from
00:52:37.420
start to finish, uh, these school administrators have a lot of explaining to do and really ought to
00:52:44.280
Yeah. Appreciate how easy it would have been to solve this entire thing. At that first meeting
00:52:50.160
on October the 13th, all the principal and the, uh, and this wish had to do is say, we know this
00:52:57.880
didn't happen. By the way, let me backtrack a little bit. The school has a parent student handbook
00:53:02.640
that outlines different kinds of disciplinary offenses and remedies. And they outline various things with
00:53:10.060
penalties such as detention, full day detention. And then there's a category for more severe offenses,
00:53:16.580
which require more severe discipline than even full day, uh, detention. The first one is lying.
00:53:23.440
The second one is bigotry. And the third one is internet abuse. And so by the time of that first
00:53:29.940
meeting, the administration of the school knows that the accuser made up a lie. It was a lie based on
00:53:37.400
race and bigotry. And it was posted on the internet. And so all the first three of the major
00:53:43.860
enhanced offenses as outlined in the student handbook have been violated. And yet my client's
00:53:51.120
told that this accuser will not be punished under any circumstances because she's African American.
00:53:57.760
And my client is asked to fix the problem by admitting to lies. And all the school had to do,
00:54:04.800
all the administration had to do at the very first meeting is say to the accuser,
00:54:08.600
we know this didn't happen. Apologize for it. They don't even have to discipline her if they're
00:54:14.360
afraid of disciplining an African American student and, and make a public statement that this did not
00:54:20.180
happen. Instead, to this day, as from the statement you just read a minute ago, they're still denying it
00:54:25.620
happened. And they're still not coming to the support of a person that they know is innocent.
00:54:29.640
And, and it sounds like they've abandoned even entertaining the allegation that Jane may have
00:54:37.640
stood up in a class and looked at the accuser and said, black lives do not matter.
00:54:42.580
You know, and it seems to have gotten to be beyond that. It seems that their need now,
00:54:46.700
their, their kind of knee jerk need to support the concept of critical race theory,
00:54:51.720
obviates anything in the way of a, of a real discourse or obviates the need to investigate
00:54:56.680
what did or did not happen because the, uh, the, the need to enforce the concept of critical race
00:55:03.760
theory that all white people are racist because they're white overrides any factual inquiry.
00:55:10.100
And, and is that something I, I mean, I, I guess I could ask Jane that too, but is,
00:55:14.440
has critical race theory been, um, used? Has it been taught this year as we've seen at so many
00:55:20.520
schools or are you just referring to the messaging she got in the meetings?
00:55:25.520
Um, you know, it's my understanding. Well, let me, let me back up and say this. Since we filed this
00:55:29.620
lawsuit, I've gotten calls from parents from a variety of the prep schools in St. Louis, both,
00:55:34.660
um, Catholic prep schools and others, including one that I went to, uh, complaining about critical
00:55:41.140
race theory being forced down the throats of their kids. I think Villa Duchenne has probably had less of
00:55:46.400
that than the other schools that I've been contacted by. Um, despite the fact that in,
00:55:51.780
in my client's specific case, they've made no bones about their belief in critical race theory and
00:55:56.800
their desire to enforce it by force and intimidation if necessary.
00:56:01.400
Mm-hmm. What do you make of the fact that these teachers, uh, are allowed to, and students too,
00:56:08.140
are allowed to display BLM stickers and paraphernalia? And this is a controversial group. I don't,
00:56:13.320
I don't care who has a problem with me saying that it is a controversial group to, to put it at a
00:56:18.780
minimum. It's the concept of black lives matter is not controversial, but the group is, um, and yet
00:56:24.740
you're not allowed to show support for police and no one would feel comfortable showing support for
00:56:30.460
Trump. You know, what do you make of that? Well, you know, I gotta say that I know, and I know that
00:56:35.920
the administration knows, I know that Mr. Baber, the, uh, the head of school knows that BLM is a, uh,
00:56:41.940
as a Marxist organization, this anti-Catholic, anti-family, anti-capitalism, and that it stands
00:56:48.400
for everything that, that, uh, the traditional American values stand against. And no one can
00:56:54.120
honestly promote black lives matter as the organization, um, without being a, without having
00:57:01.360
at core adherence to a concept that America is intrinsically an evil place, that capitalism is
00:57:08.960
intrinsically evil, that families are bad, and that the religion is antithetical to, uh, to a race
00:57:15.840
free existence. I mean, this black lives matter is not a benign organization and anybody who promotes
00:57:22.420
it is, they either have to feign ignorance or they're, or they're in on it, in my humble opinion.
00:57:28.580
Well, that's the thing is that the group, like the, the idea of it was not that controversial,
00:57:32.900
right? I mean, like, that's why the marketing is so brilliant because lowercase black lives matter is
00:57:37.400
something everyone can agree with. But as we saw over the summer, the organized group has caused
00:57:43.240
a lot of damage and they are anti-capitalist. They are Marxist. That was in their own founding
00:57:49.320
documents, which up until recently were online until they started to scrub them, um, and have
00:57:54.540
problems with the nuclear family and so on and so forth. They go, it goes on and on, but I think it
00:57:59.580
was one thing to let somebody have a black lives matter t-shirt or sticker, uh, prior to all the damage
00:58:04.860
that was done this summer. But as of October of 2020, you know, cops had been murdered. David
00:58:09.500
Dorn was murdered right outside of, right in St. Louis, wasn't he? The retired cop who got killed.
00:58:13.500
Yeah. About a half of them are sitting right now.
00:58:16.540
Yeah. So it's like, look, all my, my only point is they're controversial and there's this one girl
00:58:23.280
who's got a couple of cops in the family who wants a single blue line and a flag just to say like,
00:58:28.980
not all cops are bad. And this turns into, you know, something really dark according to your
00:58:35.500
complaint. Um, so what, what should happen? I mean, actually, no, let me back up. Can we just
00:58:41.560
talk about the video? Have you seen the video of the, of the class? Will they not release that to
00:58:46.260
you? We have not gotten it. The, uh, the school was just served in this litigation, I think this
00:58:51.580
week because of COVID, um, the court system works very slowly. We filed this lawsuit, I think on
00:58:57.400
December 23rd, summons just got issued recently. And I think the school has just served this week.
00:59:03.700
And so we don't have any discovery yet. The, um, I'm the second lawyer on the case. The first lawyer
00:59:08.480
who's not, um, necessarily a litigator, uh, had requested the video. They refused to produce it.
00:59:15.700
Interestingly, uh, the standard practice to the school was that all the, all the zoom, all the,
00:59:20.660
uh, classes were zoomed and the zoom, uh, conferences were recorded and then posted to the internet
00:59:26.920
saying that this, this video has never been posted. And now, uh, after we filed our lawsuit,
00:59:34.160
the policy has changed to where you can only get the videos of the zooms upon its written request.
00:59:41.320
Um, but nonetheless, they have never produced this video.
00:59:44.920
Hmm. That's fascinating. I mean, the video, like that, that's very telling because of the video had
00:59:51.020
Jane on it, standing up and saying black lives do not matter. This would be a slam dunk for them.
00:59:56.920
Oh yeah. Well, you know, it's not, we're not in a unique situation where, where, uh, facts are all
01:00:03.720
into the discourse. Right. So, so what about the meeting then when she was represented either by
01:00:12.180
you or your predecessor, uh, Jane and her family had gotten a lawyer and the principal nonetheless pulls
01:00:18.500
her in for a meeting without any representation. And even without her parents, that to me sounds
01:00:25.540
hard to believe that you'd have a crying teenager there saying, please, may I call my mom? And the
01:00:31.740
principal is saying no, as another teacher's yelling at her, that she's a racist and it has
01:00:37.340
to admit it's all in her head and that she feels safe when she's saying she doesn't.
01:00:40.840
And more than that, this was prearranged because as she's called out of her class, she's specifically
01:00:46.580
told that she could not bring anything, including her cell phone. Um, and so they had every intention
01:00:52.000
of browbeating her into, well, she put it very nicely. They've gotten a letter from council.
01:00:57.360
They know that they, that they're, uh, in some hot water and what they wanted to do was to
01:01:03.000
coerce her, browbeat her into saying things, which could then be taken down by Ms. Kaplan on her laptop
01:01:09.060
in defense of, of what they saw as a coming lawsuit. And to have three adults, and by the way,
01:01:14.880
we're talking to principal of the school, uh, Ms. Michelle Mora, who is the quote, Dean of Student
01:01:20.980
Excellence, uh, which I don't even know what that means. And Ms. Kaplan, who's I think the Dean of
01:01:26.320
Students, um, three senior administrators, all browbeating a 17 year old girl who's begging to
01:01:34.040
talk to her mom and they won't let her. That's the, that's the basis of the, um, uh, unlawful
01:01:39.780
restraint aspect of our, of our lawsuit. But I mean, you imagine that. And by the way, all three of
01:01:46.200
these people are new to their positions. Ms. Steenberg is newly the principal. Ms. Morrow had been the
01:01:52.140
basketball coach until she got elevated to Dean of Student Excellence. Ms. Kaplan had just recently
01:01:58.760
become the Dean of Students. None of these people have advanced degrees or any specialized training
01:02:03.920
and administration. They were just bodies that needed to fill slots. And it'd be interesting to
01:02:09.600
find out, um, what the, what the selection criteria was for these positions. I know that the head of
01:02:16.600
school, Mr. Faber, um, had come from the East coast, I think he was from Connecticut. He had spent some
01:02:22.240
time in Chicago. He had most immediately before taking over his head of school at Philadelphia,
01:02:27.940
been the head of school at another sacred heart school down in the Lafayette, Louisiana, um, called
01:02:34.300
the Grand Coteau and, uh, had instigated a very, um, extreme, uh, uh, anti-racist criteria down there.
01:02:46.360
And by anti-racist these days, we mean racism, by identifying people by race and segregating them
01:02:52.080
by race to, uh, to, uh, to show how unracist we are by, by treating everybody differently based on
01:02:57.440
our race. What do you make of that statement they gave us that I, that I read? I don't know if you
01:03:01.720
heard that, but yeah, what do you, what do you make of that? Well, I'd like to know what lawyer
01:03:05.400
drafted it, um, because it seems to be, uh, at least to what I know so far, completely the opposite of
01:03:12.180
what that in fact occurred and what has continued to occur. Now their student, uh, parent handbook
01:03:17.860
states expressly that they're going to treat everybody the same, regardless of race and
01:03:22.700
religion and national origin, that they want to treat everybody fairly. I mean, what that letter
01:03:27.140
that she wrote, that statement she just read says is basically verbatim out of their student parent
01:03:32.260
handbook, but it flies in the face of the fact that they have in fact treated my client differently,
01:03:38.680
expressly, expressly based on her race and her political positions, um, and have expressly treated
01:03:44.920
her accuser differently and beneficially because of her race. I will, I've, since the time that we
01:03:51.700
filed the lawsuit, I have learned that there was one phone call from the principal with my client's
01:03:57.960
parents in response to, uh, the initial, uh, complaint. And, uh, the parents were told by the
01:04:05.300
principal that the accuser who had been there since the seventh grade, uh, says that there had been,
01:04:10.740
this is a, this is the statement from the principal of true. There had been a lot of, uh, hostile
01:04:16.860
outbursts from the accuser since the seventh grade, but she hasn't hurt anybody yet. And therefore they
01:04:24.420
didn't, they weren't concerned for the physical safety of Jane. Um, since even though this, this accuser
01:04:31.060
had been hostile and, and, and engaged in outbursts on a regular basis, um, she hadn't actually hurt
01:04:36.940
anybody yet. So we're just going to ignore it. Hmm. Well, I mean, I, you can hear the pain that your
01:04:44.300
client's going through. You can hear it. She's a kid. This is extremely traumatic stuff. And, you know,
01:04:50.800
it sounds like the school is just totally insensitive to, to anything that Jane might be going through,
01:04:56.400
at least according to what she said to us here today. And I, and I realized the school
01:05:00.520
gets its day in court too, but they just, I don't know that Jane's pain matters to anyone.
01:05:08.500
I think there is such a, uh, the fear of, uh, not going along with the, the, the new reality of,
01:05:14.980
of education, that everything is race-based and that everything in every course, whether it's math
01:05:19.800
or science or religion or art or music, um, or history or social studies or anything else,
01:05:25.660
everything is based on race now. And I think that, I don't know what happened to this country in this
01:05:31.680
last year, but now every school is basing every course and every, every concept on the need to
01:05:38.820
segregate us by race and treat us differently. And I think every administrator is now afraid of going
01:05:44.160
against that grain for fear of losing their job, losing their futures, um, and being, you know,
01:05:50.180
called a racist. Oh, I mean, here in New York city at the Dalton school, parents just wrote a letter
01:05:55.560
complaining. I mean, this is one of the most liberal schools in the country. Just wrote a
01:05:58.580
letter complaining about that. Among other things, they're having the kids reenact, uh, cop shootings,
01:06:04.560
reenact alleged, you know, shootings of racist white cops and black men. I mean, it's like, it's nuts.
01:06:12.920
Yeah. And I know that I've read the Dalton school manifesto and it's just, it's, it is almost exactly
01:06:19.820
like the, uh, uh, uh, movement for black lives, uh, manifesto that was published in 2016. I mean,
01:06:28.660
it's just, it's, it's a movement that is centrally organized and is emanating out of, of basically,
01:06:35.460
you know, uh, the weather underground and black Panthers. And, um, you know, I, I get into this for
01:06:42.300
hours because I just, I can't imagine how the entire country has been taken over by this. And nobody has
01:06:47.280
mentioned the fact that these people are just blatant racist. Well, you know, that that's why
01:06:52.160
it's like, I feel like people like Coleman Hughes or Chloe Valdary or Glenn Lowry are very brave
01:06:57.480
because those are two, the first two I think are more liberal for sure. And Glenn Lowry is more
01:07:02.780
conservative. These are just a couple of news, but these are black scholars who are speaking out
01:07:07.200
against this saying we all want the same thing. We want unity. We want cohesiveness. We want love.
01:07:13.480
We want support. Um, but we have very, very different views of this country, the, the severity
01:07:19.760
of racism in the country, whether it's institutional or not, and the way forward. And, um, you know,
01:07:25.920
you're allowed to, you're, you're allowed to have different views and, and the, the schools that are
01:07:29.740
just jumping right into all white people are racist, you know, and just shoveling Robin DiAngelo's
01:07:34.540
messages down the throats of children with no thought for how that's going to make them feel or change
01:07:40.080
their lives are really endangering them. This is, this is dangerous stuff. So what that, which leads
01:07:47.020
me to the question of what do you think should happen to the, these teachers and these administrators?
01:07:52.740
Well, I think that, uh, I'm hoping that in the course of this litigation, we're going to demonstrate
01:07:57.980
that, you know, the facts are, are what we allege they are, that the administrators knew that at the time
01:08:05.660
and that they put the, uh, the political, uh, expediency of critical race theory and black lives
01:08:13.280
matter movement, uh, ahead of the, uh, of the welfare of the kids. I mean, it's, you see that
01:08:19.580
every place. I mean, I, I, uh, had a, uh, another client of mine whose, uh, uh, son goes to the same
01:08:27.760
prep school I went to here in St. Louis where a math teacher went off in a math class, totally
01:08:32.780
unprovoked for, you know, 45 minutes about critical race theory, about how all these kids
01:08:37.380
were racist and they need to admit it. And, uh, when that current sent a letter to the headmaster
01:08:43.160
and had it sit down with him, the headmaster was shocked and put an end to it. And that's
01:08:48.640
all that needed to happen here. All they need to do is acknowledge what really happened and what
01:08:53.440
didn't happen and support the student instead of sacrificing the student on the altar of critical
01:08:58.780
race theory. What is the claim for? Well, you know,
01:09:02.780
uh, I always say to my clients, all I can do is turn their, their pain and misery into
01:09:07.700
dollar bills. Unfortunately, the way the legal system works, that the only remedy is really
01:09:12.400
monetary. But that I think is a, is the secondary import in this case. I think what my clients
01:09:18.620
want to do is just have an opportunity to show the community that this is what's going on. This
01:09:23.460
is, this is what's festering amongst them. And, and parents don't realize it. And by the time
01:09:30.180
it comes to a head, by the time they realize what kind of poison is being fed their children,
01:09:35.100
it's already happened. And so this is kind of a wake up call. This is an opportunity to let the
01:09:39.660
community know that, uh, uh, that this is going on. And the problem is what's your alternative?
01:09:45.920
The, um, I got another, I have another client who told me last week that, uh, his son goes to the
01:09:52.500
public school, uh, in the wealthiest neighborhood in St. Louis and, uh, that they've had an hour long
01:09:59.060
session where they were lectured on, um, uh, ACAB, all cops are bastards. And they had to accept that.
01:10:07.760
And, you know, I, I, you know, I, I, I know that in your case, your, your former kid's school wanted
01:10:14.440
to teach them that in every classroom, there's a killer cop being bred, but I mean, this is every
01:10:20.400
place. And just in one year, how the heck did that happen? I know, I know it's disturbing. And I know
01:10:27.160
you've had personal experience with this to some extent. Well, I'll talk to you about that in one
01:10:30.880
second, but can I ask you, um, I don't have the complaint in front of me, in front of me, but what are the
01:10:35.360
claims? One is a breach of contract because the contract executed by my client and the school
01:10:42.220
incorporates by reference, the student parent handbook where, um, and I detail it paragraph by
01:10:48.940
paragraph, all the different ways that the school has violated their mutual covenants in that, that
01:10:54.620
student parent handbook by treating my client differently because of race, by not enforcing
01:10:59.940
discipline evenly, um, by preferences based on, on race and political opinion, um, all contrary
01:11:07.800
to the contractual obligations, uh, uh, based on the student parent handbook. Then there's
01:11:13.020
kind of an interesting claim under Missouri law. We have a Missouri, uh, uh, merchandise practices
01:11:19.240
act, uh, where it's, uh, actionable in Missouri if you sell a product under false pretenses, similar
01:11:27.000
to the federal statute. And there's a, and it has been specifically applied to selling education
01:11:33.460
as a, as a, a merchandise. And if they take in students and accept tuition on the basis,
01:11:42.800
on the representation that they're going to be unbiased, non-racist, even-handed, and treat
01:11:48.680
all people equally on the, on the basis regardless of their, of their race, gender, or national origin,
01:11:56.100
in fact, they know that's not true. That's a, that's an actionable, um, misrepresentation
01:12:03.860
Do you think you have available to you, um, a discrimination claim, you know, a, a claim
01:12:09.460
that they've discriminated against Jane on the basis of race?
01:12:12.820
Yes. And, you know, we, uh, Missouri, uh, constitution specifically prohibits that. That's,
01:12:17.160
that's the last allegation of the, of the petition. Uh, unfortunately that unless they're accepting,
01:12:22.980
uh, some federal or state aid, uh, if they're accepting support, I'm not sure we have a,
01:12:30.300
a good constitutional claim. But once again, we've alleged that because we do not know whether
01:12:35.100
or not that's the case, but if they're using federal money or state money to promote this
01:12:39.320
propaganda, then yes, that's a, that's a constitutional violation as well.
01:12:43.240
Are you prepared to try this all the way through? I mean, would this be a jury trial? And are you
01:12:47.940
I don't file any lawsuit though. I'm thinking all the way through if I have to.
01:12:51.820
Hmm. Let's just go the other way. If, if Jane really did stand up in the classroom and yell this
01:12:57.020
and then feigned indignance at being falsely accused, then there's something seriously wrong
01:13:04.240
with Jane and the school has been awfully aggrieved. Um, but I, I just keep coming back to you. If that,
01:13:11.940
if that were the case, they would have released the video that the video would show us and we'd see
01:13:16.780
Jane on the tape and, and maybe they'll do that and, and I can have you back. And then I'll say,
01:13:20.960
Hey, Mark, there she is. But until that happens, they, they don't deserve a presumption in their
01:13:27.460
Well, even, even if let's say, let's say the facts weren't so self-evident, let's say the case
01:13:32.340
wasn't videoed and a class wasn't videoed. And it was a, he said, she said, or she said,
01:13:36.820
she said in this case, even if that were the factual background, what on earth would be the
01:13:42.160
legitimate basis for pulling my client into the principal's office and having her brow
01:13:46.920
beat? What would be the point in having your accuser spend an hour screaming at her and jabbing
01:13:52.940
her finger in my client's face, calling her a racist? That's no way, even if the facts are in
01:13:58.880
dispute, that's no way to reach a resolution. That's the way to escalate rather than deescalate
01:14:04.460
the situation. And I've got to tell you, yeah. And since then, as, as Jane referenced when you were
01:14:12.820
asking her question, since these events, her accuser has become emboldened. She feels that
01:14:18.480
the school is supporting her and knows that nothing she does will result in any sanction against her.
01:14:24.100
And so she's become more outspoken and more defiant and more out there than she was before.
01:14:32.040
And so it's given, it's given the accuser license to, to kind of flourish while at the same time
01:14:39.980
really crushing my client, making her life miserable. I mean, at this point, Jane can't
01:14:45.580
transfer to another school, right? I mean, we're, we're four months away from the end of the school
01:14:49.260
year. Yeah. I'm just hoping that, uh, that she's allowed to graduate. We've gotten at least one
01:14:54.660
ominous, uh, uh, correspondence from the school talking about how close she is to the end of her,
01:15:01.100
uh, high school career and how they hope that this won't interfere with their ability to
01:15:06.400
conclude her seniors, uh, her final semester. It kind of not very, you know, well hidden
01:15:13.380
subtext there. Well, we'll look forward to covering that if they try to kick her out before
01:15:18.340
she's had her day in court. That's talk about adding insult to injury. Up next, Mark is going
01:15:23.320
to walk us through the latest on his case and wait until you hear what happened to this activist
01:15:28.640
prosecutor who has been coming after Mark and his wife. Guess what she did and the consequence to
01:15:36.500
her in trying to make these guys into a political football that's up in one second. But first let's
01:15:43.340
talk about HR issues. I mean, how many conversations do you begin like that a day? Hey, talk about your,
01:15:49.460
actually we should, because the reason you want to avoid talking about HR issues is because they're
01:15:54.180
stressful. And if you're a business owner, they can kill you wrongful termination suits and minimum
01:15:59.080
wage requirements and red tape and labor regulations. And it's overwhelming and no one wants to do it.
01:16:04.040
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01:17:02.260
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01:17:14.220
That's Bambi.com slash MK. Bam to the B-E-E dot com slash MK. Check them out. And now we want to
01:17:23.220
bring you a feature we have here on the show called Asked and Answered, where we try to respond to some
01:17:28.480
of our listener mail. Steve Krakauer is our executive producer, and he's been sorting through
01:17:33.860
the submissions. Hey, Steve. Hey, Megan. Yeah, lots of good ones this week. And this one comes to us at
01:17:39.200
questions at DevilMayCareMedia.com, so people can write in there or just ask a question on one of
01:17:45.220
our social media accounts at Megan Kelly Show. This one is from John Harbor, and he's got a question
01:17:49.940
that I ask myself every day. He says he's a moderate. He enjoys listening to the show, appreciates your
01:17:55.460
points of view, but he has one question. Why are you still using Twitter? The obvious solution to me,
01:18:00.520
he says, is for conservatives to drop it. It's a great point, John. I think I'm just going to go over
01:18:05.100
to Parler. Oh, wait. You know, you know, it's like they have a monopoly. And I was on Parler,
01:18:14.200
and I was actually doing pretty well on Parler until I got pulled. But I confess I didn't leave
01:18:18.420
Twitter, and it wasn't because I thought Parler would go out of business. It's because Twitter
01:18:22.520
just has such huge reach, and I've got pretty significant reach on it. And even though it's
01:18:29.340
completely dominated by the left, I mean, Twitter is definitely a leftist site. So you're going to be
01:18:34.860
subjected to a fair amount of bullying, ridicule, and scorn if you're not a leftist over there.
01:18:41.300
And frankly, even if you are a leftist, they're not nice to anyone. But especially if you're not,
01:18:45.540
it is also a place where I feel a connection to people who are sane, who are kind, who I think are
01:18:53.800
rooting for me and for whom I am rooting. And I'll just give you one example. You remember we had
01:18:58.060
Bridget Phetasy on the show, right? I wouldn't have known about Bridget Phetasy had it not been for
01:19:01.940
Twitter. Chloe Valdary, same thing. I found her on Twitter. Love her. She's the answer to all of
01:19:06.760
our problems. If you haven't listened to that episode, go do it. And Bridget, you know, she sent
01:19:11.200
me a sweet DM, you know, the direct message on Twitter after I left NBC. And I was like, who is
01:19:16.200
this wonderful person who's thinking about me? You know, she said she was worried about me. I'm like,
01:19:20.940
oh my God, who's this beautiful person who's worried about me? Most people are like, F you,
01:19:25.340
enjoy your money, you biatch. Right? So it's like, it's like so sweet. That's how we became friends.
01:19:31.640
And that's it. And if you don't know Bridget, listen to that episode too, because you'll see
01:19:35.280
what a beautiful person she is. Anyway, lots of relationships like that for me have begun on
01:19:41.820
Twitter and it's amusing. I have to say it's very funny. They're like Jesse Kelly. He's,
01:19:48.120
uh, he's with the first he's hysterical. That guy has me in stitches. Um, Stephen Miller,
01:19:55.260
not the one who worked at the white house. Another one. He's hysterical. He's like the
01:19:59.940
funniest guy on Twitter. So clever, literally makes me laugh out loud all the time. There's
01:20:04.480
a lot of people I could go on and say this stuff about. So it's worth the follow. And you,
01:20:09.420
you know, you get the news quickly, you get amused quickly, you get abused quickly. I'm on like a rap
01:20:14.960
now. So I would say net net is still a positive experience for me. And it doesn't really bother
01:20:20.260
me too much. Like when they, they, I start trending as people take something totally innocuous and make
01:20:25.340
it sound awful. I have learned by this point in my life that the people who are with me,
01:20:29.400
the sane people that doesn't make them hate you or think you've done anything wrong. They just scoff
01:20:34.300
at it and move on. Right. And if a left wants to get themselves, get themselves all up in arms about
01:20:38.300
something I've said. Okay. Kind of the way I felt about, there was this website when I was at Fox
01:20:42.880
and, um, their motto was we watch Fox. So you don't have to, and they would write just terrible
01:20:49.200
things about all of us. And I, it used to amuse me. Like think about your critics, the people who
01:20:54.800
hate you the most sitting around all day, watching you, listening to you, documenting your every word
01:21:03.920
you've already won. You've already vanquished them. Right. So it's, it's kind of like that when you
01:21:10.980
stir these people up who are dishonest brokers, right? Like I've already won. Just, just the fact
01:21:15.800
that you've tried, you, you picked the fight has, has been a win for me. So anyway, long-winded
01:21:22.000
answer, John, but I hope that helps you understand. And look, if we could, if we could actually build a
01:21:26.860
meaningful competitor to Twitter, I'd go in a heartbeat, but for now it's like, it's like high
01:21:32.260
school, right? Like we're talking about high school today. It's like high school. You've got to deal
01:21:35.620
with the bullies, but hang with your friends. And now back to Mark. Let me shift gears with you now,
01:21:45.300
if I may, because we got to talk about the fact that you've had your own experiences
01:21:48.200
with black lives matter, the protesters at least. And we're in the news all over the news in June
01:21:54.840
because you are the man who had to quote the mansion. Everybody made sure to refer to your house
01:22:00.860
as the mansion and stood out there with your gun with your wife because the protesters had come
01:22:06.080
into your private development through the gate and, um, were, were right by your property.
01:22:12.560
And the crazy thing that happened there, people had all sorts of opinions about whether you guys
01:22:16.800
should have been out there with your guns. The crazy thing that happened there was when all was said
01:22:20.740
and done, this, what appears to be a radical, uh, prosecutor, the circuit attorney has charged
01:22:28.120
only two people, you and your wife, not one of the people who were trespassing on, on the property.
01:22:35.680
You know, your, your development has been charged. Only you got charged. You and your wife got charged.
01:22:42.760
And she has basically said, this is a quote from circuit attorney, Kimberly Gardner.
01:22:48.340
We must protect the right to peacefully protest and any attempt to chill it through intimidation
01:22:54.540
will not be tolerated. And she says, you place the protesters in fear for their safety. And that's
01:23:02.340
why you're now facing felony charges, Mark. How, uh, how are you feeling about that today? And where
01:23:08.040
does that case stand today? Oh gosh, you know, I gotta tell you, I'll give you a little frame of
01:23:12.280
reference. Um, St. Louis is the murder capital of the world. This is one of the, this is the most
01:23:19.280
dangerous place for homicides in the country per capita. Uh, last year we had 262 murders in the
01:23:26.020
city of St. Louis out of a population of about 300,000. On June 1st and 2nd, after the George
01:23:31.560
Floyd thing, uh, the, the, uh, people of, uh, of the, the choose to hold themselves out as our moral
01:23:39.660
superiors and resolve all our problems through peace and love decided the way to, to show their
01:23:44.760
peace and love is to burn down downtown St. Louis. And that night, uh, millions of dollars worth of
01:23:49.740
property was burned down. Four police officers were shot. Uh, retired captain David Dorn was
01:23:55.340
murdered in a secondary employment at a pawn shop, not very far from my house. Uh, we watched the
01:24:01.380
7-Eleven in downtown St. Louis, my wife and I from a live helicopter feed for 10, 20, 30, 40 minutes
01:24:08.040
from the time the first rock went through a window, place gets looted empty. Then they set fire to it.
01:24:13.200
Building becomes engulfed in flames. Roof falls in. Not a single policeman shows up. Not a single
01:24:19.260
fireman shows up. And this is two blocks from police headquarters in downtown St. Louis.
01:24:23.920
We look at each other and say, oh my God, you know, when the pit hits the sand, you're all on
01:24:27.720
your own in this world. And then, um, the organization, the Antifa-like Black Lives Matter
01:24:33.720
organization in St. Louis called Expect Us, which is headed by none other than my new Congresswoman,
01:24:39.500
Cory Bush, starts having, um, periodic mob action, uh, peaceful protests. And because when you live in
01:24:48.120
a, in a city which has been controlled by Democrats for now 77 years, uh, and you've got a circuit
01:24:54.580
attorney who's vowed not to prosecute anybody for what they consider minor offenses, including up to
01:24:59.880
assault and everything else. Um, they advertise, Expect Us advertises when and where they're going to
01:25:05.900
have a mob action, including in my neighborhood. Um, but when you talk about Kimberly Gardner not
01:25:12.880
prosecuting anybody other than us for that, what happened on June 28th, 250 people or so got arrested
01:25:19.020
on that night of June the 1st and 2nd, the night when David Dorn was murdered and, uh, four other
01:25:26.900
This is one of the darkest days. This is one of the darkest days of those Black Lives Matter
01:25:31.600
protests that wound up being riots. That, that death toll and the death of David Dorn was the,
01:25:37.580
I'll never forget that. I mean, that, and people gloss right over it when they, when they defend BLM
01:25:42.260
and you can wear the t-shirt and there's no accountability for it. I'm sorry. I just, I,
01:25:46.100
I wanted to weigh in because that's, that's your neighborhood. That's your town.
01:25:49.880
And I've lived here. I've lived in the city of St. Louis. We, when, when my wife and I,
01:25:53.340
I grew up in St. Louis, but I went to school in Dallas, started practicing there. And, uh,
01:25:58.180
then my wife and I moved back to St. Louis. We were out in West St. Louis County on five
01:26:02.820
acres with our horses in the backyard and everything. And we decided to move back into the city
01:26:07.440
at a time when, when nobody was moving back to the city, when everybody was fleeing the
01:26:11.360
other direction. And we spent, well, on February the 11th of this year, it'll be 33 years in
01:26:16.320
that house. And, uh, we, we have lived in what has always been the most dangerous city in the
01:26:22.420
country now for 33 years. And, uh, um, when we protect our house against an angry armed and
01:26:31.020
dangerous mob, we've faced four years in prison. Kimberly Gardner is not prosecuting any of the
01:26:37.260
250 people that got arrested on that night of June 1st or so. Wow. Not one? Nope. People that
01:26:44.580
killed David Dorn, I think three out of four of them, um, or maybe four out of five of them have
01:26:48.860
been captured. Um, they were just random protesters, just the angry mob. Um, but all the other people,
01:26:55.840
the arsonists, the people that shot the other cops, nobody's getting prosecuted. In fact,
01:27:00.400
nobody in the city of St. Louis gets prosecuted for virtually anything. Uh, and now there's a big
01:27:05.640
movement. There's a big movement now to quote, well, you know, if you read the Black Lives Matter
01:27:10.100
stuff and the movement for Black Lives Manifesto, um, going back to, even before that, going back to
01:27:16.500
the 90s, that's the same program to, to defund the police, decriminalize everything, and, uh,
01:27:23.860
and to destroy traditional values. And right now, at least one of the people running for mayor in the
01:27:29.140
city of St. Louis wants to, uh, decriminalize prostitution and all drugs, uh, uh, uh, expunge
01:27:37.920
everybody's record for anybody that's ever been arrested for any sex or drug related crime and
01:27:43.360
then reimburse them for the time that they've lost whilst being in jail. Oh, come on. Crime does pay.
01:27:52.700
No, no. And you know, um, I'll go on and on, but I mean, I got to tell you this, but I, the fact
01:27:58.280
that people like Chris Cuomo and Don Lennon and all these guys support Black Lives Matter expressly
01:28:06.320
and never mentioned, for example, stuff like, well, you know who Susan Rosenberg is, right?
01:28:13.300
Well, she, um, as of now or last summer, she was on the, uh, uh, she was vice chairman of an entity
01:28:20.260
called Thousand Currents, which was a funding branch of Black Lives Matter. Susan Rosenberg was
01:28:26.580
a member of the M-19 communist organization in the 70s and 80s. She, um, was the getaway driver in a
01:28:34.420
branch robbery where two police officers and one guard were murdered. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I covered
01:28:39.440
that. I mean, I, I didn't cover it when it actually happened, but she, she, uh, her role in it came up
01:28:44.580
again. Her group, including her, bombed the U.S. Capitol building in 1984. They bombed an FBI office.
01:28:53.860
They bombed the Israel aircraft industry's office. They bombed the South African consulate. They bombed the
01:29:00.520
Morton, D.C., uh, Naval Yard, uh, Fort McNair. Um, she was sentenced to 58 years in prison. Oh,
01:29:08.680
more than that, she and her fellow, uh, uh, Linda Sue Evans created a, uh, prison break where two other
01:29:16.200
communists, one of whom is, uh, two of which are now still on the FBI's most wanted list, one of whom,
01:29:21.480
um, who, uh, uh, uh, is, her name was, uh, Joanne Chesemar, but she now goes by the alleged African
01:29:28.680
name of Assante Shakur hiding out in Cuba. Um, this woman got 58 years in prison and guess what?
01:29:37.000
On the last day of Bill Clinton's administration, at the insistence of none other than Jerry Nadler,
01:29:44.440
she gets her sentence commuted along with, uh, um, uh, Evans. These people are about communists.
01:29:51.560
They have, uh, they have, um, sworn to the destruction of the United States. They have,
01:29:57.640
they were trained in Cuba. Um, they have engaged in actual terrorism. They have been convicted of
01:30:04.600
actual terrorism. They have bombed the U.S. Capitol building. Susan Rosenberg, who, who is a convicted
01:30:11.000
terrorist and murderer and bomber of the Capitol building, um, is vice chair of the funding arm of
01:30:19.560
black lives matter. Okay. This is public, this is public record. Oh no, you, you know how it is,
01:30:25.800
Mark, any pushback on this group and people say you're a racist, like, and you just have to get
01:30:31.560
okay with being called terrible names. If you want to engage in this battle, because there are some of
01:30:36.280
us who are committed to facts and truth, wherever it leads us, whether it makes groups that sound great,
01:30:41.880
look bad or groups that sound bad, look great. We have to just go where the evidence takes us. And,
01:30:48.040
and in your case, I, I watched, I didn't know you. I, I wasn't rooting for you or anybody else. I
01:30:53.480
watched. I'm like, I don't think they don't look that, that menacing. I don't know. Why did they have
01:30:58.200
the guns? I guess I, I might do that. I might be a little worried if they had come into my private
01:31:03.000
development, which was trespass. And then I follow the evidence and I saw the police actually alleging,
01:31:10.360
contrary to what Rasheen Aldrich, who helped lead the protest in your neighborhood said, he said it was
01:31:15.160
peaceful and there were no threats so that you guys, the McCloskey's were overreaction,
01:31:19.000
overreacting. Uh, and the police investigated and said, all right, we found at least one person who
01:31:25.000
was armed. We found another person who had a bulletproof vest on. We found people holding
01:31:30.120
signs that read, you own a business. Your business is gone. We're coming back, baby. You ain't the only
01:31:35.640
blank blank with a gun and they coming back to your house. Then there was another protester heard on
01:31:42.120
tape saying I was the one who opened the gate. The gate was broken after they pulled a gun.
01:31:47.080
What law did we break? We keep guns there, but not for show, not to look a certain way, but for use,
01:31:53.800
they would have shot. Then they would have been put down. So I, I will say when I look at your case,
01:32:00.440
I think it had I been the prosecuting DA, I would have said, and I'm just going to stand down on accusing
01:32:05.880
the McCloskey's of a disturbing the quote, peaceful protest by trying to chill, uh, and otherwise
01:32:14.680
entirely lawful thing through intimidation. You are trying to defend yourself in your home.
01:32:21.160
And you know, Megan, it's so much worse than you can possibly imagine. My, my wife, um, is still,
01:32:26.600
still brought to tears whenever she sees any of the video of this stuff. I mean, we're talking
01:32:31.080
three to 500 people screaming, shouting, threatening, threatening murder and rape and arson.
01:32:39.720
And, and not for just the 32 seconds that everybody saw in college, but this thing goes
01:32:44.440
on for 15 minutes. And, uh, uh, we were terrified and it, it was not a benign event. And it was
01:32:52.760
only the first of two events. The thing that the media did not cover is that that was June 28th.
01:32:58.280
We heard from a client of ours who's a member of the organization that they're coming back on July
01:33:02.920
the 3rd for the express purpose of killing us and burning down the house. And they did come back
01:33:08.760
on July the 3rd. And it was a crowd of up to a thousand people. And we couldn't get private
01:33:14.280
security of people that we normally would retain secondary employment cops. They didn't want to
01:33:19.720
get involved because they were afraid of getting bad press. We were referred to an entity that does
01:33:25.720
international corporate security, you know, special forces type guys that do pretty high
01:33:30.760
profile stuff all over the world. They got bad press over the Ferguson riots and they wouldn't
01:33:35.720
get involved. So I say to the guy who owns it, what the heck are we supposed to do? And he says,
01:33:42.680
well, I would just take whatever you can't live without, put it in your car, leave and abandon the
01:33:47.720
house. I said to him, there's no effing way. And heck, I'm going to do that. I'm going to go down to the
01:33:52.200
ship if I have to, but we're not going to, we're not just going to let these people take over and
01:33:55.720
burn down our house. And so, um, we had gotten a call earlier in the week from a gentleman at the
01:34:01.320
White House that said that the, uh, the president wanted to express his support. And if there's ever
01:34:06.680
anything that he could do for us, let us know. Well, now it's getting to be later on in the week.
01:34:11.640
And we've been, uh, we know for a fact that this crowd is going to come back with the express purpose
01:34:17.400
of killing us and burning down the house. So I called back up the White House and I said,
01:34:21.640
wait, you know, you, you guys said if there's ever anything you could do, um, for us, this is a
01:34:25.880
pretty gosh darn good time. So he gave me a Mark Meadows cell phone number. And I talked to Mark
01:34:30.680
Meadows and told him the long version of this very short version of the story. Uh, and he got to work
01:34:36.360
on it. Uh, the next call I made was to Tucker Carlson. Um, and I'm sitting on the bench in the kitchen
01:34:42.280
of our house. My wife is crying in the background. I'm telling the story I just told you about how
01:34:47.080
I can't get any help. The police have been ordered to stand down. Um, and we're facing death and
01:34:52.520
destruction on Friday. And I think this is probably Thursday by now. And, uh, Tucker goes on air with
01:34:58.360
that, which I kind of call arms, but we've spent now it's Thursday evening. Our daughter 31 years
01:35:05.400
old had been staying with us. Uh, she was in for, for dinner the prior Sunday and stayed because what
01:35:09.880
was going on. And, uh, um, she gave us each a hug and a kiss, took her favorite stuffed animal
01:35:16.200
from when she was a kid and left expecting to never see us again. Um, and then, uh, Thursday
01:35:22.680
comes Thursday's over and we not slept since Sunday. We're like, I'd been sweating 24 seven,
01:35:28.600
literally sweating, um, hiding stuff, sticking stuff in walls and under beds and trying to
01:35:35.160
think what the heck we're going to do. Um, with every expectation that our lives are going to end on
01:35:40.200
Friday. Uh, and then stuff came together. I mean, we had, by the time the crowd hit our gate on Friday
01:35:47.400
evening, uh, we had, uh, uh, six Navy SEALs, uh, that some had come up from Texas wanted the fourth
01:35:55.160
generation cattle farmer had heard our situation through his gear and his pickup and drove straight
01:36:01.640
in, got here about six 30 on Friday evening. Um, thanks in part to, to Tucker. Um, we got a whole
01:36:08.680
bunch of secondary employment, rural cops that showed up. Um, we had, uh, uh, the chief of police,
01:36:15.960
the only police officer in the city of St. Louis that was actually there that night all night
01:36:20.040
was a chief himself, John Hayden, by the way, he's an African-American gentleman, super guy.
01:36:25.000
He came and met with our private security forces and, uh, and organized a, you know, a plan of defense.
01:36:31.160
And he stayed there virtually all night when the crowd had served up against the fence,
01:36:37.240
he would personally go and talk them back, but we, uh, we survived, but I mean, it was harrowing.
01:36:42.600
It was, it was now a thousand people and it was, uh, that, that, that part of it never gets mentioned
01:36:50.040
by the press. And then we've got that night on July 3rd, when the crowd is coming down the street,
01:36:57.240
chanting, burn the MF down in the front of the crowd is none other than Corey Bush on a megaphone
01:37:03.720
standing out in front of my house, chanting, you can't stop the revolution. You can't stop
01:37:09.960
the revolution. Now she's got the goal to stand up on the floor of the House of Representatives
01:37:16.200
and say that anybody who supports insurrection is unfit to be in the House of Representatives.
01:37:22.280
Well, I got news for you. Her organization, uh, disavows peaceful protests. Um, you talked about
01:37:30.120
Rashid Aldrich. He has expressly said that expect us, this Antifa-like organization, doesn't like,
01:37:37.400
doesn't want to have peaceful protests. They want to be as disruptive and as in your face as possible,
01:37:43.880
uh, that they have to break laws in order to get their message across and they have no intention of
01:37:48.360
being peaceful. And you mentioned the gun and the, and the body armor, but I can tell you,
01:37:54.280
and I'm backtracking a little bit because this is the night of June the 28th. I'm out in the front
01:37:58.760
porch and I'm holding my rifle and my wife is holding that pistol that she knew didn't work.
01:38:04.120
And it's right in front of us in order to be intimidating are these two guys. One of them's
01:38:08.760
wearing camo colored body armor. Um, and the other guy's wearing the desert storm stuff,
01:38:14.600
style light colored body armor. The guy in the camel body, body armor is close enough to me that
01:38:20.440
he sees that I can see. So he pulls out from the ammo pouches on his, on his armor, two loaded
01:38:26.360
magazines, points them at me so I can see that they're loaded with cartridges, clicks them together
01:38:31.000
in front of me, points at me and says, you are next. Meanwhile, the, uh, the guy, uh, in the light
01:38:37.000
colored body armor, whose arm starts creeping closer and closer. And he's got typical, you know,
01:38:43.000
Antifa kind of face covering and head covering. So you can't see anything but the slit of his eyes.
01:38:48.120
And he keeps creeping closer and closer and closer. And I look at over at Patty and I said,
01:38:54.200
you know, if he comes a foot closer, I'm going to have to kill him. And, uh, he's armed and being
01:39:00.120
intimidating. And Patty leans over to me and, uh, says, you're not killing anybody tonight.
01:39:05.880
You know, the voice of reason, but we didn't, didn't put off the shot.
01:39:09.720
Yeah. Can I ask you, can I ask you the city slicker, you know, elite media question? Because
01:39:16.360
I do have this question genuinely. If this had been happening to me and I've got some property
01:39:21.480
in New Jersey, so I do have a little bit of a suburban existence, but I would have gone inside
01:39:26.120
my house. I would have gone inside. I would have deadbolted everything. And I would have called
01:39:29.240
every cop and every security person I could. So I'm sure you've got an answer to that, but what is it?
01:39:33.640
Well, the answer is this. I did a, uh, a, uh, interview with, uh, Carlos Watson, uh, last week
01:39:39.880
where he asked the exact same question. I like Carlos Watson. He's, he's a good guy.
01:39:44.440
He really is. And, and he is probably been, uh, he gave us all the time we wanted to. He's very
01:39:51.320
even handed, um, very honest and very sincere. And I was very impressed with his, with his interview.
01:39:56.520
And, uh, we told him so at the end, I, you know, at the end of it, he, he had asked us earlier,
01:40:01.080
who did we respect to the media? And after the interview was over, I said, well, you know,
01:40:07.080
Aw, that's great. I, he doesn't get enough attention for being the fair guy he is.
01:40:12.440
So anyway, the, the answer to the question is that between June the 1st, when they burned down
01:40:17.560
downtown St. Louis and shot four officers and killed Captain Doran, who, by the way, was,
01:40:23.640
you know, very well respected, just a wonderful guy. Um, uh, we have started seeing more and more
01:40:31.240
of the neighborhood getting burned and broken. The little pharmacy, I'm sitting here in my office,
01:40:35.480
which is three blocks to my house. This is a, uh, um, 1880s Victorian house that we, we turned in
01:40:41.720
our office building. Around the corner is a pharmacy we use. We've gone over there, um, shortly before
01:40:47.880
June the 28th, the windows were broken out, the steel roll-up doors were destroyed, and the place was
01:40:53.480
a mess. I was talking to the owner, and I said, what happened? He said, the alarm went off. I said,
01:40:58.440
you, you come down to see what was going on. He said, no, I didn't want to get killed. I said,
01:41:02.360
so what happened? Well, the alarm goes off. They were inside for six hours, breaking everything,
01:41:08.120
stealing everything they could steal and destroying everything they couldn't take. I said, did the police
01:41:12.520
show up? He said, yeah, 10 hours after the alarm went off. We started seeing more and more of the
01:41:18.600
buildings, uh, in the central west end here where we live boarded up, more and more, uh, businesses
01:41:24.360
closing down. Somebody drove a truck to the front of the office depot, uh, just across the street and
01:41:30.440
down a little bit from my office. Um, and the, the answer to the question is that the events that
01:41:37.480
were going on in St. Louis in those days, no matter whether they were billed as peaceful protests or
01:41:42.440
whatever, in every one of these events, things got broken and people got hurt. And the likelihood
01:41:48.680
that this crowd, when they crashed through the gate, broke it down and it started storming in,
01:41:53.480
the likelihood that they would be benign was small. And so I said to Carlos, for example,
01:41:59.960
if I thought that half of the time they were peaceful protesters and I had a 50, 50 chance of
01:42:06.360
being murdered or my house burned down, that's still too high of a percentage. But the percentage
01:42:11.000
wasn't that. The percentage was every time they've stayed in one of these actions, things got broken
01:42:16.280
and people got hurt. And that same night on June the 28th, after they left my house and they went
01:42:22.840
to the mayor's house, one of the peaceful protesters produced an AK-47 rifle and confronted an NBC
01:42:29.960
affiliate broadcaster who, by the way, was, had an armed guard with her and her, her armed guard.
01:42:37.640
Yeah. I mean, these people that are embedded with the, with the mob and the journalists,
01:42:42.280
I mean, they're, they don't think it's going to be a benign event. She had an armed guard.
01:42:46.680
The guard was going to, was, drew his weapon. They're about to have a gun battle in front of
01:42:51.160
the mayor's house, at which point the NBC affiliate reporter and her guard fled. But then they proceeded
01:42:57.400
to try to set the mayor's house on fire. And they've done that many times since.
01:43:00.520
Hmm. So the same crowd, the same night that I'm supposed to go inside my house and hope that
01:43:07.400
they don't burn my house down or come in and kill me, proceeded to pull weapons and try to burn down
01:43:12.440
the mayor's house, uh, after they left my place. And when I stood out in the front porch, the first
01:43:18.680
thing I said, right, actually I was out in the wing of the patio because we were barbecuing when they
01:43:22.520
broke down the gate. First thing I said was private property. As soon as I said private property,
01:43:29.160
it enraged them and they came in and, and immediately started being very violent, very loud, very
01:43:37.960
angry. And, uh, that's when I grabbed my rifle, Patty went inside to call 9-1-1. My daughter went
01:43:45.000
inside to call 9-1-1. Um, not that it was going to be very useful, but, uh, as soon as we got in,
01:43:51.720
as soon as they got in the house, uh, and called 9-1-1, uh, they walked by the front doors of the
01:43:57.480
house with her glass. And the crowd outside the door of the house was such that my daughter,
01:44:02.760
once again, she's 31 years old, fell down to the ground out of terror and then ran upstairs and
01:44:08.760
hid behind a sofa. And that's when Patty grabbed that pistol and went out to the front porch.
01:44:13.800
Well, that's the thing is that that's why I framed the question the way I did, because I'm always
01:44:17.880
cognizant of the fact that I live in New York city. I live in a doorman building. There are many,
01:44:22.280
many layers between me and the outside world. And it's not the same. You know, I talked to my
01:44:27.400
pal, Dana Lash, who's a big second amendment advocate. She's a spokeswoman for the NRA,
01:44:31.400
her husband. Yeah, that's exactly right. She's St. Louis now, now in Texas, but you know, those two,
01:44:38.440
they're so comfortable with a gun and like that they're just, you know, it's like second nature
01:44:43.000
to them and they live in a much more exposed, you know, area. They would never ask that question.
01:44:49.520
I ask it for my listeners who are more in my camp, you know, like they don't understand why
01:44:53.600
wouldn't you just go inside and cower, which is exactly a hundred percent what I would do.
01:44:56.640
I'm like, victim here, victim here. But I appreciate the explanation.
01:45:03.120
Well, the first person to ask me that question was, I was on a breakfast in the
01:45:11.480
No. The lady asked me that exact question. I said, well, you know,
01:45:14.840
yeah, I had every expectation that if I hadn't gone out and defended my house,
01:45:19.700
sort of interviewing me here today, you'd be attending my wedding. And that's exactly the way
01:45:25.640
Just speaking of Dana and Chris Lash, there was something on Twitter the other day where the
01:45:30.000
question was something to the effect of a guy breaks into your house and goes over to your
01:45:34.900
refrigerator. What's the one thing you don't want him to steal? And people were offering up,
01:45:38.980
you know, my burgers, my Hellman's, whatever. And Chris Lash responded, he would never make it to the
01:45:44.280
refrigerator. I just think, you know, it's a mentality, you know, that's why we have castle
01:45:50.740
doctrines in this country. You are allowed to defend your home, your safety, your well-being.
01:45:56.620
And I do think most of the world has never even had to really contemplate that. But when you try to
01:46:02.620
put yourself in Mark's shoes and ask yourself what you do, and you have to think of the greater
01:46:07.300
context of what was going on in the world, in his neighborhood, all the videotapes we'd seen,
01:46:11.800
the threats, all of it. It's just the situation was fraught. Okay, can I end with this? I was
01:46:17.600
delighted to see that the circuit attorney has been booted off of your case, yours and your wife's,
01:46:23.700
because she did something wrong. Can you tell us what she did?
01:46:26.960
Sure. She used us in her advertising and her fundraising while she was running for
01:46:31.260
re-election of circuit attorney. She did so before we were charged. And then 48 hours or so
01:46:39.400
after we charged, she sent out another funding request to her constituents talking about how
01:46:46.980
she was going to fix this problem of people like us and President Bush, President Trump.
01:46:55.700
And when you read her campaign material, it has nothing to do with curing crime or reducing the
01:47:04.500
murder rate in the city of St. Louis. It had exclusively to do with restructuring the power
01:47:09.580
structure. But because of that, because she had used us in her fundraising, both the judge in my case
01:47:16.720
and the judge in Patty's case disqualified her and the entire circuit attorney's office from the
01:47:22.260
client from the case, she took that up on a writ to the Eastern District Court of Appeals,
01:47:27.880
which denied the writ in both cases. And so the status right now is we're waiting to see whether
01:47:32.800
or not she's going to take that up to the Missouri Supreme Court or not. If the Missouri Supreme Court
01:47:39.800
agrees with the trial judges, or if she does not take it up to the Supreme Court, then the local
01:47:46.320
judges will have to appoint the local statute says some other attorney to prosecute the case.
01:47:53.960
Yeah, she really wants to be the attorney. She's dying to be the attorney who prosecutes you.
01:47:58.720
Well, and you know, at the hearing, at the hearing where we were arguing, and my attorney was arguing
01:48:04.500
that she ought to be disqualified because of her bias and her interest in pursuing this on a political
01:48:08.980
basis, they denied that they had any political interest in pursuing the case. They were just doing it for
01:48:14.480
the safety and health and welfare of the citizens of St. Louis. And, you know, the proof of that is how
01:48:19.880
much she doesn't care whether or not she gets to prosecute us, right? Instead, she's doing everything.
01:48:27.780
Well, we'll see. I don't predict this going anywhere. I just cannot see this case going anywhere. I know
01:48:32.600
the attorney general of the state is more on your side, and we'll see how it plays out. But I predict
01:48:38.520
this is going to end well for you. Quick question. How are you doing with your neighbors? How are your
01:48:46.420
Well, I have one or two neighbors that, well, first of all, you got to appreciate that the
01:48:50.420
central west end of St. Louis is about as leftist as you can possibly get. And we're, you know,
01:48:55.980
the only people in the neighborhood that had a Trump sign out, I can tell you that.
01:48:59.800
We had our annual meeting for our neighborhood last Tuesday night, I guess, maybe two Tuesdays
01:49:06.140
ago. And every vote was 18 to 1, if that's any indication. You can guess who the 1 was.
01:49:19.740
Well, you know, I got it. I got to tell you. I was just doing a little head scratching last
01:49:25.220
night. You know, I don't know if this is off limits with you or not, but you get you get
01:49:29.640
camped for saying something about blackface. When you were in high school, I can't remember
01:49:34.620
the exact quote. It's OK as long as you're in character. And, you know, it wasn't anything.
01:49:40.080
Yeah. It used to be OK as long as you're in character.
01:49:43.640
But then you have what? Justin Trudeau. Did he have to resign as prime minister in Canada?
01:49:57.760
Who may. Listen, in his defense, he may not have been in blackface, something I've never worn. He
01:50:01.260
may have been wearing a KKK outfit. So, like, let's get it straight.
01:50:05.100
That makes it all better. OK. And then the president nominates for the head of the civil
01:50:13.120
rights division of the Department of Justice, the people that will decide what is racist and what
01:50:18.560
isn't. And who needs to go to jail for being a racist and who doesn't?
01:50:22.320
A woman who has written that blacks are genetically superior to whites.
01:50:27.800
And he is nominated for what? Undersecretary of Education.
01:50:32.160
A woman who is in glowing words talking about a woman who says that our children are being
01:50:42.560
Yeah. I mean, that's right. And yet and yet I'm the guy that's facing four years in prison
01:50:48.860
for intimidation. But can I tell you something, Mark? I don't know if you feel this way, but I
01:50:52.080
hate I hate when this stuff happens because, you know, I am a fighter like I can tell you are.
01:50:57.420
And when people veer off of the facts and the law, I have like a visceral instinct to to put them
01:51:03.340
back, like stay between the rails. These are the rules we all agreed to play by. Right.
01:51:07.080
There's no racial discrimination. Doesn't matter what the pigmentation is. You're not allowed to
01:51:10.880
hold someone's immutable characteristics against them in this case. And when they keep trying to
01:51:17.200
do it. Right. Like when it's like, well, you're bad. You're less than just because of your pigmentation.
01:51:21.820
Then they force you to say, no, I'm not. And you've got to get into this fight. And now you're in sort
01:51:26.280
of a race fight. And no one wants to be in a fight over race because it just doesn't tend to end well
01:51:30.780
for anybody. Right. And I feel like that's that's where your client is. That's where you are.
01:51:36.040
I've been there. And it's it's one of the great frustrations of this whole overreach is we can
01:51:41.920
agree that we could absolutely implement some police reforms that would make sense for our
01:51:48.180
community. We can agree that protest is as American as apple pie. But riots are criminal
01:51:54.460
and must be stopped. And by the way, we can agree that most cops are not violent and are actually out
01:52:00.160
there trying to protect in particular the communities of color that need the most. But the countries in a
01:52:05.440
place right now where it seems to have lost its mind. And I think it's a manifestation of what
01:52:09.320
began as political correctness and has morphed into something very dangerous. Wokeness is too cute
01:52:15.220
a name for it. One of my listeners wrote me that it's too. It makes it sound like they're adorable.
01:52:20.900
And what they're really what they really are is anti-American and trying to tear at the fabric
01:52:25.600
that holds us together as as Americans. So I appreciate your willingness to stand up for what you
01:52:33.240
believe in. And and also, you know, for what it's worth to protect others. You know, I mean, Jane
01:52:38.540
is a lot more vulnerable vulnerable right now than you were, or then I am. And she needs help. You can
01:52:45.440
hear how rough it's been on her, right? You can you can feel it. You know, I don't know what the future
01:52:52.460
holds. But I know that the powers that be the mainstream media, the political party in charge,
01:53:00.980
they're not ignorant. They don't misunderstand what's going on. They are promoting organizations
01:53:09.720
and elements in our society that actually are actively working to destroy Western culture.
01:53:16.560
America, as we know it, to destroy the underpinnings of the of the four pillars of our civilization.
01:53:22.720
That's family, God, individualism and capitalism. And this isn't this isn't coincidental. It's not
01:53:31.960
done because they're ignorant of what's happening. They're promoting it. They're actively promoting
01:53:36.620
entities that they know are not just a little to the left, but they're basically promoting Marxist,
01:53:44.460
communist, universal revolution. You go back to the very earliest documents of the movement for black
01:53:50.620
lives and its predecessor organizations. And they expressly say that they seek a universal
01:53:57.560
restructuring, which progresses beyond capitalism, is their way of phrasing. And this is very frightening.
01:54:05.580
And there's nobody, with very few exceptions, standing up and saying, that's what's going on right now.
01:54:12.260
And if the people don't wake up and take some action against it, and pretty gosh darn soon,
01:54:17.220
our real life is going to be history. Yeah, the country's changing in a radical and dangerous way.
01:54:24.740
Listen, do me a favor, if you get your hands on that videotape, we'd love to see it. And we'd love
01:54:29.100
any updates in your case or in Jane's case. And all the best to both of you guys. Thank you so much
01:54:35.420
for doing this and for being here. Oh, thank you for having us on.
01:54:38.560
Today's episode is brought to you in part by Legacy Box. Trust Legacy Box to digitally preserve
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for us to stay in touch with you. And you don't want to miss our next show because we've got Eric
01:55:05.220
bowling. Now, Eric and I are pals and have been for a long time, and I had him on the show to talk
01:55:09.800
politics once before, and that's fine. We'll talk politics when he comes back on. But what I really
01:55:14.520
wanted to have Eric on for this time was to talk about Eric's life and some of the stuff that he's
01:55:22.520
gone through. You know, he lost his son, Eric Chase, to a drug overdose when Eric Chase was in college.
01:55:29.820
And it was a tragic story. And it was totally misrepresented by the vicious press. And he's been
01:55:37.540
he's handled it all so beautifully. The guy's been through so much. Anyway, you're gonna love him. You're
01:55:43.120
gonna love the personal side of Eric. And we're gonna get into that. And we'll get his latest take
01:55:46.920
on all the politics. And so he's got a new podcast of his own with Brett Favre, by the way, or as I
01:55:52.200
said for years, Brett Favre. And we'll find out what's happening with that. So don't miss it. That's
01:55:59.180
Friday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. The Megyn Kelly
01:56:07.740
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