The Megyn Kelly Show - The Left's Brainwashing and the Nancy Guthrie Case Sheriff's Alarming Changing Story, with Buck Sexton and Former FBI Agents

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00:01:00.120 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:11.800 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:13.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:14.960 Back at home in the Red Studio today,

00:01:16.740 and we have a lot to get to later.

00:01:18.740 The latest on the investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie.

00:01:22.500 Wait until you hear what the sheriff is saying now, today.

00:01:25.520 But we begin with a disturbing shooting at a youth hockey game in Rhode Island.

00:01:31.040 The shooter has been identified as a man pretending to be a woman.

00:01:34.980 Another one of these.

00:01:37.340 The gunman shot and killed his wife,

00:01:39.580 and then opened fire on his children before turning the gun on himself.

00:01:44.720 And we have a guest with a perfectly timed book out to talk about this

00:01:49.080 and all the other big stories in the news.

00:01:51.140 Buck Sexton is a former CIA officer and co-host of The Clay, Travis, and Buck Sexton Show.

00:01:56.520 He has a new book out called The Manufacturing Delusion.

00:02:02.040 Manufacturing Delusion.

00:02:04.020 How the left uses brainwashing, indoctrination, and propaganda against you.

00:02:10.740 And it's out today.

00:02:12.320 Go and get it right now.

00:02:13.280 It's a great and it's an important read.

00:02:15.440 And it makes some shockingly persuasive arguments about Buck's experience as a CIA officer

00:02:22.580 and what he saw with these jihadis and what the left is doing right now

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00:03:32.780 Buck, welcome back.

00:03:33.820 Great to see you.

00:03:34.920 Thanks so much for having me, Megan.

00:03:36.000 Appreciate it.

00:03:37.320 Of course.

00:03:37.980 So congrats on pub day, manufacturing delusion.

00:03:42.060 Who is doing the manufacturing?

00:03:43.860 Oh, anybody who is seeking totalitarian mind control.

00:03:50.340 So it can be a regime.

00:03:51.800 It can be a cult.

00:03:52.700 It can be a terrorist group.

00:03:54.960 It can be a faction of left-wing loons in our own country.

00:04:01.120 It really depends on the phase that you're in.

00:04:04.260 And I try to break this down when I approach this book.

00:04:08.220 Megan, the initial idea behind it, or rather why I was thinking about this in the first place,

00:04:13.300 was people will talk about things like climate change, and they'll say, this is the biggest threat that we face.

00:04:19.940 Or they'll talk about, I don't know, we're going to all run out of water or something.

00:04:24.320 The biggest threat that we as a species face is mass hysteria and mass delusion.

00:04:29.880 And I think that's been the case for a very long time.

00:04:31.800 Certainly the 20th century showed that that was the case, and I hope we don't have to relearn that lesson in the 21st.

00:04:39.380 But it's essentially when people go mad in masses or in herds, and this is done often intentionally.

00:04:47.500 There are people who can control this.

00:04:49.340 There are tactics that are used.

00:04:50.780 And I get into, and the book is really about, chapter by chapter, various approaches to this kind of mind control,

00:04:59.080 whether it's the Soviets, the Chinese, a bunch of different cults that I talk about,

00:05:04.920 and also takes you a little bit into the earliest days of the brain stimuli to the outside,

00:05:12.100 or rather stimuli from the outside to the brain connection that Pavlov, the Russian scientist, developed in the early 20th century.

00:05:19.580 So there's a lot, a lot to go through in it, but it's certainly, there's a whole chapter on menticide

00:05:24.080 and about the transgender situation, which is menticide obviously being mind-killing.

00:05:30.480 That's exactly what we're seeing in this country, menticide.

00:05:33.920 I think it's so interesting because I love anything involving cults, first of all.

00:05:38.460 And this really shows, like you talk about many infamous cults like Jim Jones, people drinking the Kool-Aid,

00:05:44.060 taking their own lives, convinced that doom and gloom was awaiting nuclear attacks and so on.

00:05:51.260 But, and then you liken it to what's happening today.

00:05:54.860 And when you watch, like the lunacy on the streets of Minneapolis,

00:06:00.240 is it so different from being in the Jim Jones cult and being convinced that, you know,

00:06:06.740 you have everything to fear, the Gestapo's here, like these ICE agents, they're locking people up,

00:06:13.300 they're stopping innocents and throwing them away without a key, American citizens.

00:06:18.040 The through line, like it didn't really dawn on me until I read the book on exactly how the same tactics

00:06:25.220 are being used only on American citizens.

00:06:27.880 Well, you know, Megan, this is why I draw upon, and I had the CIA, I'm absolutely contractually obligated

00:06:34.380 if I write about CIA operations I was a part of, for the first time ever I've written about them.

00:06:39.400 I wrote about going after Boko Haram, it was actually called something else at the time,

00:06:44.900 Boko Haram in Nigeria and Al-Qaeda in Iraq and Iraq, and then, of course, various,

00:06:50.500 whether it's the Taliban, Al-Qaeda remnants, the Haqqani network in Afghanistan.

00:06:56.840 But one thing that I found fascinating, and then I had some time at the NYPD doing counterterrorism there,

00:07:03.020 you would have people who would show up in Iraq or in Afghanistan, and they were willing to blow themselves up

00:07:10.120 in countries they had really never been in before, spent a very short amount of time in,

00:07:14.160 to kill people they had never met because of a cause that they only recently became aware of,

00:07:19.980 and often through online means.

00:07:22.480 So, if that's possible, if it's possible to have some kid who grows up in Birmingham in the UK and goes,

00:07:28.780 you know what, I'm going to strap, I'm going to fly to Turkey, make my way into Syria,

00:07:33.420 go across into Iraq, and try to blow up as many people as possible to fight against the,

00:07:38.740 you know, they always would call them the Crusaders and Jews, the Christians and Jews in Iraq,

00:07:42.540 then it must be possible for this to be happening elsewhere in different ways, at different levels,

00:07:47.900 perhaps not quite as violent, but also using the same process.

00:07:51.800 And that brings me to Minneapolis.

00:07:53.680 How do you get, you know, suburban, middle-aged, seems mostly, in the case of Minneapolis,

00:08:00.040 white women, to think that they should be blocking ICE officers with their body,

00:08:05.160 that they're stopping Nazis, that they should spit at them,

00:08:08.380 or that they should, you know, physically throw themselves in the midst of law enforcement?

00:08:13.320 Try to run them over?

00:08:14.680 This is crazy.

00:08:16.060 I mean, this is a word that is applicable.

00:08:18.640 This is crazy.

00:08:19.540 There's something, something has happened to their mind.

00:08:22.760 And I mean, I get into, like, menticide is based on artificial breakdown and deconditioning.

00:08:26.160 So the artificial breakdown is, and in the case of the trans situation, this really hits home,

00:08:32.680 it's getting you to just believe it's the belief in the most core and fundamental lie.

00:08:39.120 And to give up all that you have believed in before,

00:08:42.560 give up all on this issue you thought you knew,

00:08:45.180 and then it can be reconstructed, reconditioning to the new order is what they call it.

00:08:50.300 And this is what you see where people not only are led to believe that you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman,

00:08:56.280 or that a baby is assigned gender at birth.

00:08:59.900 Think about what a crazy, I mean, we, you know,

00:09:01.980 we've all on the right been making jokes about the pronouns thing for a long time.

00:09:05.120 And I think we realize now it's actually very, very, I mean, we, you know,

00:09:08.260 I've done that too, but it's actually gotten quite serious as we see with more and more of these mass shooting incidents involving trans individuals.

00:09:15.900 But, you know, you see this and you say, hold on a second.

00:09:19.180 If I can't tell the difference between a man and a woman,

00:09:21.800 or rather if I'm willing to have someone else tell me that there is no difference biologically,

00:09:27.000 we can't tell the difference.

00:09:28.340 What else am I open to?

00:09:29.480 What other kind of persuasion?

00:09:30.720 What other kind of rewriting of my basic circuitry is possible?

00:09:36.180 Yes.

00:09:36.620 Oh, that's, that's such a good, that's such a good way of putting it.

00:09:41.180 Rewriting of my basic circuitry.

00:09:43.580 That's truly what the trans thing does.

00:09:45.680 And like when they make you say, she, when you are looking at Dylan Mulvaney, or you're looking at Leah Thomas,

00:09:54.520 and you know, this is a, he, you know, this is a man or these enormous guys who come into the women's locker room or the women's bathroom.

00:10:02.740 And they, they are trying to make you say, she belongs there.

00:10:07.640 And your circuitry tells you it's a lie.

00:10:12.060 Yes.

00:10:12.600 And this is why I start off the whole book with the initial, some of the initial research and the most famous research about Ivan Pavlov.

00:10:21.380 And now he, this is somebody who got a Nobel prize for science, had to do with gastric juices and, and digestion actually.

00:10:28.020 But this guy comes along, he's the most famous Russian scientist of all time.

00:10:31.580 And Russia's actually producing pretty darn good scientists.

00:10:34.940 And, and he came along and he goes, well, hold on a second.

00:10:37.320 And not, I can prove that what your brain processes has actual physical effect in the body.

00:10:44.240 And so his whole, his life's work really was trying to understand that at a time when really there was almost no understanding of this, right?

00:10:51.640 And they're talking about the very end of the 19th century, early 20th century.

00:10:55.140 But there's a fascinating situation that occurred where his, his lab, he's had a bunch of different labs over the course of his career, but there was a lab in St. Petersburg, Megan.

00:11:05.520 And as we all know, he kept dogs.

00:11:07.400 He didn't actually, people always say that, that he would ring a bell.

00:11:10.760 It was actually a buzzer or a metronome.

00:11:12.240 There's a lot of stuff that is sort of like the lore of Pavlov versus the truth.

00:11:15.960 I get into some of that, but this is all true.

00:11:17.880 He had a lab and there was a flood and the dogs, and I love dogs.

00:11:23.640 You love dogs.

00:11:24.300 Like it's like, it gets me upset.

00:11:25.660 Just thinking about the dogs, when the flood was going up and up and up, realized that it was very likely that they were, you know, that they were in mortal, they were in cages and they were all going to drown.

00:11:34.540 Some workers from the lab got into Pavlov's lab and were able to release these dogs just in time, just in time, and noticed extreme changes afterwards in their behavior.

00:11:48.400 Essentially, that trauma was so profound in dogs that some of them became far, that had been a little aggressive, became far less aggressive and timid.

00:11:58.980 Some of them that had been really friendly became quite, you know, ferocious toward members of staff.

00:12:03.840 They had a, the circuitry had changed because of a fear stimulus.

00:12:08.060 Now, I know we think about this stuff more now, but a hundred years ago, that was a eureka moment.

00:12:15.400 It was, wow, you can actually take external, externalities, in this case, a natural, kind of a natural phenomenon, but you could then force it perhaps and make people change behavior based upon things in their environment and get physiological changes from that as well.

00:12:32.700 So that is a huge transformation in our sense of where the brain and our psychology ends and our physiology and our bodies begin.

00:12:42.900 And this matters so much, obviously, in the trans debate in a whole bunch of ways, because if you can submit on this issue and give up the most fundamental understanding of biology that I think really all of us have, that is a huge step in this process of getting people to be willing to say absolutely anything.

00:13:02.440 That is why, these are the outside stimuli.

00:13:05.160 Use the pronouns.

00:13:06.680 Say you don't know.

00:13:07.720 You're constantly undermining your own cognition, your own ability to think through these problems.

00:13:13.260 And that's why they're so insistent on it.

00:13:15.100 And by the way, the Soviets knew this, and I get into this history in the book.

00:13:19.420 The Chinese, during the Cultural Revolution, knew this as well.

00:13:22.800 They were insistent upon the constant barrage of falsehoods.

00:13:27.700 Even if they knew, Megan, you didn't know it, and this gets into Mao.

00:13:33.020 By the way, the term brainwashing, which there's a whole chapter on, comes from a Chinese, it's like a Chinese neologism, which is wash brain.

00:13:42.140 And, you know, they switched it around.

00:13:44.620 A journalist named Edward Hunter, who is familiar with what had happened in the early days of the Chinese Cultural Revolution, says, this is crazy what they're doing over there.

00:13:53.500 And there's been some amazing studies.

00:13:55.000 There's a guy, Robert Lifton, who wrote a study of all these people, including some Westerners, by the way, who were just completely, like, rewritten by this process of Chinese brainwashing over time.

00:14:08.500 And there's a, it's very clear, there's a very sort of structured process to it.

00:14:16.420 And this is how they thought they were going to, and it worked in a lot of cases.

00:14:20.280 And this is how they seized control of the populace in China.

00:14:23.780 This is what Stalin, Stalin was, had a little bit of a different approach.

00:14:27.380 The Chinese kind of built on that.

00:14:28.940 But this is what they did there.

00:14:30.120 It's what they do in North Korea today.

00:14:32.380 Everybody has to use the preferred phrases.

00:14:34.420 Everybody has to bow in front of the emblems or the, or the posters or whatever.

00:14:39.020 Yeah.

00:14:39.320 Because even if you don't believe it, Megan.

00:14:40.560 So what we do on the American left today, too.

00:14:43.140 Here's a, I just remind you, for the listening audience, we're talking to Buck Sexton.

00:14:47.040 The name of his book out today is Manufacturing Delusion, How the Left Uses Brainwashing, Indoctrination, and Propaganda Against You.

00:14:54.960 And as you're talking, Buck, I'm thinking about the mass hysteria around BLM and the surveys by the far, asking far left liberals how many black men are, unarmed black men are killed by police in a year.

00:15:10.480 And some said over 10,000, right?

00:15:13.180 And it was 12, over 10,000.

00:15:15.060 They've been so diluted.

00:15:16.460 I'm thinking about the climate change hysteria with, yes, of course, Greta Thunberg.

00:15:21.740 But this, I mean, she's a good example because she was a kid, you know?

00:15:25.380 I mean, she's kind of turned into a bit of a villain, but she started off as just a deluded kid who was brainwashed by this same set of psychos, including people like Al Gore and Bill Gates and others who influenced that sect.

00:15:38.980 Now it's AOC, et cetera.

00:15:40.720 And then most recently, COVID.

00:15:44.160 COVID is like that trauma that the dogs suffered that you write about in Manufacturing Delusion.

00:15:51.380 Where the water was rising, not for normies, but for lefties who convinced themselves that this was like the end times and that we were all almost about to die.

00:16:03.920 And people like, forgive me because she's a minor, but Violet Affleck, who's still going back to the UN in her mask, demanding that we all wear the masks so that we don't die from a resurgence of some COVID strain.

00:16:19.820 Like, it is, as you write, a manufactured delusion, and it was intentional.

00:16:26.600 COVID was really the beginning of the idea for the book, Megan, because I kept looking around, as many of us did, as I think so many of us did, and saying,

00:16:36.920 Okay, guys, explain to me why the wearing, and it's not a COVID book, to be clear, but this was, there's a chapter where I deal pretty extensively with this.

00:16:46.460 And it is, by the way, the wearing of the mask is very much like, use the preferred pronouns.

00:16:51.860 Even if they know you don't believe, and even if you're doing it under protest, the act of submission itself continuously is part of the process of that rewiring or rewriting.

00:17:04.400 But I, I, I, I just remember people saying things like, well, put on the mask for the walk to your table.

00:17:11.860 I'm like, in a small restaurant, I'm going to walk 15 feet to a table, have to put my mask on for that, but then when I sit, it's okay.

00:17:20.180 Or, or close a bar at 10 o'clock.

00:17:22.340 That's right.

00:17:22.780 This is crazy.

00:17:24.860 That is the only word.

00:17:25.800 This is nuts.

00:17:26.800 And Fauci, who I find to be a vile coward, and have absolutely nothing but, but contempt for him professionally and what he did.

00:17:36.560 Fauci and all the rest of them, like, this is why it's manufactured.

00:17:40.580 They found these things and these rituals to be useful tools of control.

00:17:45.960 And there's all these different approaches to how you get people to think and to mobilize around lies, falsehoods, crazy ideas.

00:17:56.540 Again, and that is, that is the meat of the book.

00:17:58.760 And that's why I wanted to write it.

00:17:59.720 Because I really wanted to say, the book was like, what happened to you people?

00:18:03.620 Why do you go so crazy?

00:18:05.300 Including people that I knew who I had always thought were pretty normal.

00:18:09.160 But, you know, now you're seeing this with the trance thing.

00:18:12.060 I mean, I think it was a really, you know, a really helpful moment when, on Bill Maher's show, it was Neil deGrasse Tyson went on, right?

00:18:21.780 He's like a celebrated astrophysicist, a man of science.

00:18:26.040 And he won't say.

00:18:26.720 He's a loon on this issue.

00:18:28.380 Yeah.

00:18:28.920 He won't say that men have an advantage over women biologically in athletic competition.

00:18:33.780 That is submission.

00:18:36.380 I got dollars to donuts.

00:18:37.040 That's Neil deGrasse Tyson is wearing a dress at night.

00:18:39.460 He is so defensive of this issue of, like, men being able to come into women's spaces.

00:18:45.080 And there's nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with the trance.

00:18:47.900 Like, I'm sorry, but there's something going on there that makes him so defensive of this.

00:18:53.180 Maybe somebody in his family.

00:18:54.240 I have no idea.

00:18:54.920 It's just my opinion.

00:18:55.960 But there's something off about that guy.

00:18:57.940 Well, definitely.

00:18:59.020 But I would also say that this is something, you know, when I was doing the research for this,

00:19:05.840 the willingness of people who are supposedly experts to go along with this is so directly correlates, I think,

00:19:14.920 to the coercive mechanisms that exist within our society.

00:19:18.640 It seems less so now.

00:19:20.520 And I think a huge part of this is Trump has broken down so many of these just systems of coercion that exist around us in our society by whether you want to say broadening the Overton window, opening the realm of discussion.

00:19:35.700 I mean, this is just a fact.

00:19:37.200 And you know this, Megan.

00:19:38.420 People can say stuff now.

00:19:40.480 Like, you can say now, you know, a lot of minorities got into Harvard who honestly shouldn't have gotten into Harvard.

00:19:45.660 They weren't academically ready.

00:19:46.920 And they didn't have the grades.

00:19:47.920 And they didn't have the boards.

00:19:48.900 And the whole thing was kind of a scam.

00:19:50.440 And it's wrong.

00:19:51.000 You know.

00:19:51.820 And you're actually just stating facts because that's actually what's come out of the Supreme Court.

00:19:56.420 And we're all very aware of this.

00:19:58.000 And you say to yourself, OK, there was a time when I faced major professional consequences for even stating things that are true.

00:20:08.060 You can say that people used to wear blackface Halloween costumes when they wanted to look like Diana Ross or Michael Jackson.

00:20:14.080 And it wasn't a big thing.

00:20:15.460 No one cared.

00:20:15.980 You can say that.

00:20:16.840 And you won't get canceled.

00:20:18.020 You won't get fired.

00:20:19.060 Because it's true.

00:20:20.920 Yeah.

00:20:21.160 But, see, these are the ways that people will say, oh, Buck, why do you talk about, like, menticide in the context of the Soviet Union?

00:20:29.620 And I get into the Stalinist show trials because I think this is so important for people to remember.

00:20:34.640 And I don't think people learn about this in schools.

00:20:36.640 Stalin killed millions of people.

00:20:38.380 Stalin could have liquidated anybody.

00:20:39.720 Why did he have these people, including some incredibly dedicated communist revolutionaries that he had paraded out in these courts and for everyone to know about and everyone to see and hear about, read about, and had them confess to absurd crimes?

00:21:01.060 I mean, basically had these guys confess to, like, assassinating Abraham Lincoln or something.

00:21:05.040 It was crazy.

00:21:05.740 Why do that?

00:21:06.640 To show everyone, this is what we can do.

00:21:11.000 I can take someone and break them down so much that they will confess to absurdity.

00:21:16.800 They will call for their own execution in court, which is also what happened.

00:21:22.360 And it's because I am so good at this mind control.

00:21:25.980 I am so good at breaking you down at the menticidal process.

00:21:29.340 Like I said, played out in China, too.

00:21:31.480 If you've ever seen, there's this incredible documentary.

00:21:34.900 I think it was actually National Geographic.

00:21:36.100 I talk about North Korea, too, because North Korea is like if you have a society built on menticide today, right, where they have the full force of the government.

00:21:45.780 I mean, they'll execute you for using the wrong pronouns, so to speak.

00:21:49.020 Obviously, that's not an issue over there.

00:21:50.280 But you know what I mean?

00:21:50.860 If you break with the party line, you can be executed.

00:21:53.880 And they have these doctors that visited.

00:21:57.280 This is on a documentary.

00:21:58.660 And they're doing basic surgeries, but they do amazing things for people because they obviously have no medical care.

00:22:02.840 In this case, it was eye surgeries.

00:22:05.100 And people, I think they were moving cataracts so people can see.

00:22:07.540 Do you think the first thing that the people that have doctors from mostly European countries come in and give them their sight back is say thank you to the doctor?

00:22:16.940 No, they turn around, they bend the knee, literally, and they cry with thanks to the portrait of the member of the Kim family that was alive at the time, whichever one it was, for giving them back their sight.

00:22:30.780 That is like, so I think it's important for people to understand, that exists.

00:22:34.780 I know you've interviewed Yeonmi Park before, so have I.

00:22:37.940 That exists today.

00:22:38.940 She's great.

00:22:39.900 Yeah, she's incredible.

00:22:40.900 That exists today.

00:22:42.440 So if that exists in a country of tens of millions of people, as North Korea is, clearly it is possible to hold large numbers of people psychologically captive.

00:22:52.840 And if that exists in a society with totalitarian force, how does it manifest in our own society, which obviously we don't have, you know, like death squads.

00:23:02.980 Although, you know, the Democrats will say we're committing genocide against the trans community.

00:23:06.980 We've got the Gestapo with ICE.

00:23:08.860 So there are threads that I connect between all of this.

00:23:12.080 But the irony, of course, because it's there, they are the ones, not with death squads, but who would absolutely kill your career, who would absolutely kill your spirit, who will shame you to high heaven to the point they would be delighted if something bad happened to you, if you just didn't go along with their party madness.

00:23:30.580 I want to show this, Buck, this, when you're talking, it reminded me of one of the first stories we did when we launched the show.

00:23:36.540 Now it's a famous story, but it's what happened to Brett Weinstein at Evergreen College.

00:23:41.680 And it was back in, I want to say, 2019 that this went down.

00:23:45.160 But by now, the story's well known that Brett Weinstein was a professor there and he was shamed because they used to have a, like, one day a year they would have black students do like a sick out just to show white students what it would be like on campus if the black students didn't show up.

00:23:59.960 And then one year they said, we don't want to do that anymore.

00:24:02.700 This year, we want the whites to stay home.

00:24:04.260 We're coming to campus and we want no whites to be there.

00:24:07.660 And Brett Weinstein said, as a professor, I'm not sure that's the same.

00:24:11.520 It's like one thing if you want to say you don't want to come, it's different for you to say, hey, whites, stay home or else.

00:24:17.220 So this is not so cool.

00:24:19.440 And all hell broke loose on Evergreen.

00:24:21.800 They treated him like he was the head of the KKK.

00:24:24.580 And there's lots of clips from this terrible, terrible episode on campus.

00:24:28.000 But the one that always gets me is there is a black student because they shamed any student who didn't want to go along with this.

00:24:35.380 And there was a black student who really liked Brett Weinstein and she didn't like what they were doing to him.

00:24:40.820 He was under threat.

00:24:41.760 They stormed campus.

00:24:44.400 The campus security told him and his wife, Heather, we can't keep you safe.

00:24:48.900 You know, you need to leave.

00:24:49.900 They were like, this is for him just saying, and very gently, I don't think you should do this.

00:24:54.800 Anyway, they took this young black woman, she's probably 18 years old, and shamed her, shamed her in the middle of campus for the sin of not hating Brett Weinstein.

00:25:07.800 And they made her read a forced apology that had clearly been written for her.

00:25:13.760 And you can, this is the clip, this is your book, again, which is called Manufactured Delusion by Buck Sexton.

00:25:23.300 Look what they did to her.

00:25:24.500 Has demonstrated anti-blackness in the pigeon-holding, charging, and sincing of two black trans disabled students based on false racially charged allegations, sorry.

00:25:49.560 So publicly flogged her.

00:25:52.220 Right.

00:25:52.460 She couldn't even get it out.

00:25:53.800 She stuttered.

00:25:54.700 The words were unfamiliar to her.

00:25:56.540 It was a public shaming.

00:25:58.760 By the way, it was in 2017.

00:26:00.600 But this is straight out of the Chinese Cultural Revolution, where they would have these struggle sessions, which is a term that people know, but I don't think they really understand.

00:26:14.080 I mean, there were students who were beating their own teachers to death on stage in front of crowds, right, to show that it's really bad to be against the revolution.

00:26:22.560 And we're going to, I mean, it was horrific stuff.

00:26:26.100 And there should be much greater awareness, I think, in this country of exactly how they mobilized the youth, I might add, college students.

00:26:34.740 That's interesting, isn't it?

00:26:36.560 To be the vanguard of the revolution because they tend to be very full of zeal, very full of emotion, and they don't have a lot of life experience and therefore wisdom.

00:26:45.940 So they're easy to manipulate.

00:26:48.220 If you're going to manufacture a delusion, it's much better to start with people who are going to be susceptible to the tactics from the get-go.

00:26:56.320 But the self-denunciation, which is what that is, is a critical part of a menticidal process.

00:27:05.080 And this has been seen, again, all totalitarian regimes do this.

00:27:09.000 And people might say, oh, what?

00:27:10.360 Yeah, but they also do this in cults, too.

00:27:12.320 You'll see a very standard thing in cults is people, I mean, one, there's a whole chapter in the book, Megan, on isolation because, of course, they want to have much greater control over you.

00:27:22.540 And you become unmoored.

00:27:23.920 You're much easier to kind of mold if you don't have family members, friends, things like this.

00:27:28.640 And that's pretty standard, pretty standard cult stuff.

00:27:32.080 Speaking of COVID.

00:27:32.660 Yeah, of course.

00:27:34.660 And, you know, separating us, whether on your VAX status.

00:27:38.380 I mean, once you start to see all of this stuff and you start to look at these, at the connective tissue between how all this stuff works.

00:27:45.220 But even in the case of people who are trying to join cults, trying to find themselves, often there'll be some version of, like, they have to, you know, they have to confess.

00:27:56.900 I know they have this.

00:27:58.060 And I didn't write about Scientology, so I'm not in.

00:28:01.220 I want to get sued.

00:28:02.660 But, you know, there's a thing in Scientology, right, where you basically tell somebody, like your auditor, all of your things.

00:28:08.540 There's all this stuff where it's basically, I will admit I'm horrible.

00:28:12.560 I will admit I'm terrible.

00:28:13.420 And then, once you're broken down, they try to rewrite the script.

00:28:19.040 And the left does this all the time.

00:28:21.260 I mean, there was a fascinating article.

00:28:23.880 All the time.

00:28:24.520 I feel like I read this, gosh, I don't know, over a decade ago.

00:28:28.820 I can't remember the author.

00:28:30.220 I think it was Freddie DeBoer was the guy's name.

00:28:32.460 But he talked about how the left was just getting so insane that no one on the left was safe from anyone else on the left.

00:28:38.820 And that he was at a meeting of all these, like, this is a, by the way, this guy's like a far left writer.

00:28:44.300 But it was an interesting piece.

00:28:46.020 And he was talking about how he was at this meeting.

00:28:47.820 And there was a Latino, you know, like, I think a Latino disabled veteran who was, like, really fired up about social justice.

00:28:57.380 And he said, it's time for, like, us to man up and, like, really work together for the people.

00:29:02.380 And a few of the women in the room were like, how dare you?

00:29:04.460 Oh, boy.

00:29:05.160 How dare you?

00:29:06.080 Man up.

00:29:06.460 Right.

00:29:06.860 Man up.

00:29:07.460 I mean, and they were serious about it.

00:29:08.820 And he was like, this is these people, again, they're nuts, Megan.

00:29:12.460 You know, I kind of wanted the book to be, like, left wingers are insane and just call that the title.

00:29:17.200 And here's why.

00:29:18.560 And get into, like, the roots of it.

00:29:20.400 But, yeah.

00:29:21.380 But, you know, that would be a little.

00:29:23.160 I remember one time on Twitter, Buck, I tweeted out something.

00:29:26.780 It was some public figure.

00:29:29.040 I can't even remember who it was.

00:29:29.860 It was a female, though.

00:29:30.580 And I said, she needs to woman up and, like, whatever, you know, be strong is basically what I was saying.

00:29:35.980 And the left range shit down on me for that, too.

00:29:38.420 Like, you can't say, well, which is it?

00:29:40.540 I mean, that's actually kind of a compliment.

00:29:42.280 I'm saying she should be strong.

00:29:44.480 But, no, you can't say that.

00:29:46.040 Their word policing is all part of the control game.

00:29:49.220 But explain to me why.

00:29:51.900 Like, why are they constantly trying to control us?

00:29:55.580 This is critical.

00:29:56.300 And especially the weakest among us.

00:29:58.300 Sure, sure.

00:29:58.820 So this is, well, one is that it's, there's no greater power than power over people's minds.

00:30:04.460 Right?

00:30:04.640 That's actually what, it doesn't matter who has the most guns or whatever.

00:30:08.080 If the people wielding them will do whatever you say, that you are in charge.

00:30:13.840 Right?

00:30:14.100 So the ultimate power comes from the control of people's minds.

00:30:18.080 But in the, why the hyper, the hyper policing of things, even like language, for example.

00:30:24.780 And this comes up in Lifton's study, which I get into in brainwashing.

00:30:30.240 By the way, the Chinese didn't call it brainwashing.

00:30:32.440 We call it brainwashing.

00:30:33.700 They called it thought reform.

00:30:36.260 And they tried to be very, in their own terminology of this, Megan, because they were doing this to Chinese.

00:30:41.860 Right?

00:30:42.000 This wasn't something they were trying to do to the external world necessarily.

00:30:45.160 There were some Westerners left behind.

00:30:46.480 So you had to be smart about it.

00:30:48.040 The Chinese are smart.

00:30:49.360 They are.

00:30:49.720 They're very smart.

00:30:50.760 And they called it thought reform.

00:30:52.520 And they took a very scholarly approach to it.

00:30:54.180 But one of the things that they would do in the artificial breakdown and deconditioning phase of the process is they would have someone write a confession.

00:31:03.000 And, and of course, initially it starts off with what, what, what do you, like, I didn't do anything.

00:31:08.240 I mean, they had priests, like an Italian priest writing a confession about what doesn't matter, write a confession.

00:31:14.480 And then they, they would beat you down.

00:31:16.760 Sometimes physically, of course, they would beat you and they would keep you in the cell.

00:31:19.740 And it was okay.

00:31:21.060 And so then they realized, I'll just tell them whatever they want to hear.

00:31:23.740 And then they thought, okay, well, that will be good enough.

00:31:26.080 Now, now, by the way, you're starting to give into your capital.

00:31:28.660 You're starting to have Stockholm syndrome, which again, I talked about the origins of that.

00:31:31.820 It comes from a bank robbery in Sweden.

00:31:34.000 But okay, I'm, I'll do whatever.

00:31:35.920 I'll write the crazy thing.

00:31:38.040 And you give them this thing that says, I'm the counter-revolutionary.

00:31:40.940 I'm a spy.

00:31:41.700 I do all the things.

00:31:42.800 And they look at you and they, they, they would just tear the whole thing up and say, not sincere enough.

00:31:51.500 Not, like, not sincere enough.

00:31:53.340 And then you go again and again and again.

00:31:55.740 And the point is, it is debasing your mental faculties and you're showing them there is a conditioning of who is in charge.

00:32:05.180 So, Megan, if you can't have a conversation about the trans community without being told, oh, I'm sorry, what about Z-Zen?

00:32:14.980 Or, like, what about, you know, you're, now you're on, now you're completely flummoxed.

00:32:21.100 Like, what are you talking about?

00:32:22.240 And it shows you at every stage.

00:32:23.900 Yeah, you're unmoored.

00:32:24.400 Unmoored.

00:32:24.940 It shows you who's in charge.

00:32:26.900 And it destabilizes your own thinking.

00:32:28.180 And that's exactly how they want you.

00:32:29.700 Yeah.

00:32:30.760 Yes.

00:32:31.300 This is, okay.

00:32:32.060 We're talking to Buck Sexton.

00:32:33.200 The book is Manufacturing Delusion out today.

00:32:35.900 This is reminding me of the school that we were at in New York.

00:32:39.900 We were at two private schools in New York before we fled.

00:32:42.540 And our daughter's school, and I talked about this at the time, but our daughter's school, she was only in fourth grade at the time.

00:32:47.720 But there was a 10th grade girl who they put through hell, Buck.

00:32:51.300 They put this girl through hell.

00:32:53.680 It was a long story, which I'll tell in full someday, but the short version is this girl was accused by two of her classmates of saying something racially insensitive about a Halloween costume.

00:33:04.660 And the school, having gotten wind of it, it was said on private time, made this girl stand in front of the entire upper school assembly and apologize to everybody for being racially insensitive.

00:33:17.140 Meanwhile, she wasn't.

00:33:18.560 It truly was completely blown out of proportion.

00:33:20.640 It was a nothing what she said.

00:33:21.840 So she did it.

00:33:23.920 Then they called her back in to say it wasn't good enough.

00:33:27.760 You have to racialize your apology.

00:33:30.320 You have to get back up in front of the assembly and racialize the apology.

00:33:34.560 Like I, as a white girl, could never know how my insensitive comment about, by the way, the comment was about what we're not going to be for Halloween.

00:33:40.880 It was something like we're definitely not going to be a slave master and slaves.

00:33:44.700 And one of the girls to whom she said it was mixed race.

00:33:48.360 So now you have to get back and you have to racialize it.

00:33:51.100 And only at that point did she say, I'm going to tell my parents this is happening to me.

00:33:55.560 I'm not sure this is totally kosher.

00:33:57.440 And the parents got involved, like, what the hell is going on?

00:34:00.500 She's been publicly flogged twice for this throwaway comment.

00:34:03.440 Long story short, it wound up the two girls who were sort of coming for her, claiming offense, had been so incendiary on their own social media about race.

00:34:12.020 Race, there wasn't, they weren't offended at all.

00:34:15.640 The whole thing wound up being a target hit job on this girl.

00:34:19.700 La, la, la, la.

00:34:20.620 The school should have done so much better by her.

00:34:23.180 But what you are saying is exactly what they put this girl through.

00:34:28.700 And it's no accident they didn't call in her parents.

00:34:31.360 They wanted control over this 15 or 16-year-old girl.

00:34:34.920 They wanted a public self-flagellation.

00:34:39.220 It wasn't good enough.

00:34:41.600 They couldn't have an authority figure or a family member to whom she felt close step in.

00:34:45.480 And they try to humiliate her again.

00:34:47.900 You bend over and humiliate yourself.

00:34:50.400 You do it.

00:34:51.200 Fucking do it.

00:34:52.020 And thank God this girl had something in her, at least at that point, that said, I'm calling my mom.

00:34:57.940 And everything turned at that point.

00:34:59.840 But it's making my blood boil going back through it as you spell it out, right?

00:35:05.680 Like, this is an old playbook.

00:35:07.400 This is a real thing.

00:35:08.240 This is a real thing, Megan.

00:35:09.360 In fact, Juiced Miraloo, who, again, he had a book called The Rape of the Mind, which has fallen completely.

00:35:16.740 Like, no one, like, it's just not something that anyone's reading and talking about.

00:35:20.260 It's an incredible book.

00:35:21.280 But he was a psychiatrist in the Second World War.

00:35:24.620 He was a prisoner of war himself.

00:35:26.280 And he dealt with captured Nazis.

00:35:28.380 So, I mean, you want to talk about somebody who has frontline psychiatric research against what was brainwashing before we called it that.

00:35:36.620 But what was going on with members of the SS and the Gestapo in this?

00:35:40.660 He wrote an incredible book.

00:35:42.340 But to your point about what they did to this girl, the two, to simplify this for anybody, what are the two pillars, according to Dr. Miraloo, of menticide?

00:35:51.780 Confusion and degradation.

00:35:54.500 Keep someone confused.

00:35:55.960 And degrade them.

00:35:57.180 And then you can remold them.

00:36:00.220 You can convince them of anything.

00:36:02.400 In fact, he writes,

00:36:03.060 One important result of this procedure is the great confusion it creates in the mind of every observer, friend or foe.

00:36:08.940 In the end, no one knows how to distinguish truth from falsehood.

00:36:12.240 The totalitarian, in order to break down the minds of men, first needs widespread mental chaos and verbal confusion because they paralyze his opposition.

00:36:22.880 This is, this is, this is, this is exact.

00:36:26.420 Now, yes, you can do that with a, you know, a squad of, like, secret police in some totalitarian hellhole.

00:36:34.280 But the same process of confusion and degradation from authority figures in a different context in, in a, you know, free liberal democracy or free for now.

00:36:45.420 The same tactics can be used, right?

00:36:48.760 So this is why I think it's so important for people to see.

00:36:50.680 Yeah, or you can start degrading high school students for nothing.

00:36:53.740 Keep them confused, keep them degrading.

00:36:55.100 You can start hiring people for nothing, or you can just publicly humiliate them for nothing.

00:37:00.460 I mean, like, it's, it makes so much sense.

00:37:03.080 You can read about it in Manufacturing Delusion, Buck Sexton's new book.

00:37:06.740 We've mentioned the trans thing a couple times.

00:37:09.860 There was just a, there was just a mass shooting in Rhode Island yesterday that I mentioned at the top of the show by a trans person, a man claiming that he was female.

00:37:17.180 But before that, there was one last Friday, which was horrific, eight dead, 25 injured in Canada.

00:37:26.860 This is at the Tumblr Ridge Secondary School in British Columbia.

00:37:30.420 And this was unbelievable.

00:37:33.420 The initial alert described the shooter as a female in a dress with brown hair.

00:37:38.520 I mean, it's just, that's just dangerous.

00:37:40.580 You're just actually endangering lives.

00:37:42.420 It was a man dressed as a woman pretending to be female.

00:37:45.780 And then the police later described the shooter as a gun person.

00:37:50.720 They wouldn't call him a gunman, gun person, and was actually correcting people on the gender so that we didn't offend the dead mass shooter.

00:38:01.980 It was a biological male who started identifying as female back in 2023.

00:38:07.600 And they appeased him.

00:38:10.720 They coddled him.

00:38:12.460 They affirmed him.

00:38:13.620 And he, like so many, including the guy who just shot up the Rhode Island ice skating rink yesterday, was driven to madness.

00:38:22.620 And none of the coddling or appeasing wound up helping him.

00:38:27.360 And it actually endangered their families and those around them, including the community.

00:38:31.400 And even in death, in a place as fucking nutty as Canada.

00:38:35.080 I'm sorry to my Canadian friends, but your country's lost its mind.

00:38:39.280 They'll lecture you on pronouns posthumously standing in a field of blood with the 25 people who are still struggling to save their lives with eight dead all around them.

00:38:49.700 And yet the Canadian authorities know that by policing language and by using these, like we're all gerbils getting little electric shocks, by using these constant tools of shaping the way we discuss and therefore think about these things.

00:39:08.500 We don't have to rather the Canadians don't don't necessarily come to the very obvious conclusion, which is that these people are insane and need extremely serious mental help.

00:39:20.980 The ones that think that they're women or whatever.

00:39:23.140 It's very obvious.

00:39:24.400 It's very obvious to everybody who is thinking for themselves.

00:39:27.640 And also all of the enabling that goes on is a grotesque submission to an evil ideology.

00:39:34.200 I mean, this is how this has to be thought of.

00:39:37.360 This is how it has to be talked about.

00:39:39.500 You know, I have friends now who will refer to they'll they'll call them like a tranny jihadi.

00:39:44.840 Essentially, these are like holy warriors for the trans agenda.

00:39:48.860 Now in their own mind, people who think that they are standing up for a I don't know what you can say.

00:39:57.080 They're like the community, because, as you know, there's verbiage or there's there's talk about how there's a trans genocide, because if you won't affirm you are erasing and therefore you not using the preferred pronouns, it's almost like you are making a species or a, you know, a group of people go extinct.

00:40:17.820 Like, this is bonkersville.

00:40:22.260 Like, yeah, this is crazy.

00:40:25.600 And yet every major university in this country to this day, pretty much still goes along with this, like little automatons that are doing what they're told.

00:40:35.400 Most of corporate America until five minutes ago was absolutely devoted to this.

00:40:40.440 And the Democrat Party to this day in this country is still doing this thing.

00:40:46.500 And, you know, we have to see this what it is.

00:40:50.980 The there was Global News did a report on Friday about what happened in Canada at that mass shooting we just discussed and listen to how they reported it.

00:41:01.680 It's SOT 3.

00:41:04.020 As Tumblr Ridge is grieving unimaginable loss, some community members are urging Canadians to resist division.

00:41:11.700 This is really a time to put that away and to really think about compassion and love.

00:41:19.200 Trans people are substantially more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators of violent crimes.

00:41:24.100 There's fear around different identities.

00:41:27.020 What we know is that people don't do these things because of their individual identity.

00:41:31.660 Between 32 to 41 percent of trans people are estimated to have attempted suicide in their lifetimes due to stigma and discrimination.

00:41:39.440 Something a now removed Reddit account, JesseBoy347, appearing to belong to Van Rootselaar, described.

00:41:46.160 It really hurts.

00:41:47.460 I am genuinely considering taking my own life.

00:41:50.140 Yeah, I mean, I mean, this is what that's a sheer propaganda.

00:41:55.360 That's a Canadian news outlet.

00:41:57.240 That's fucking propaganda.

00:42:00.320 This is in the wake of this guy shooting over 30 people, eight dead, 25 injured.

00:42:06.060 And this is it's all about how the trans people are the real victims here.

00:42:09.780 Yes, of course.

00:42:10.920 No, there's a and in fact, I think you could, you know, again, I'm not a psychologist, but did a lot of research into this.

00:42:18.480 It's kind of a covert narcissism, I think they call it, where we're a victim based narcissism, where no matter what you do, you're not responsible because somebody else has done something to you first.

00:42:30.780 And therefore, you're absolved of all moral agency.

00:42:34.040 And by the way, you know, you see this with Hamas, for example.

00:42:38.480 Oh, you know, we had to go in with the suicide vest on and blow up a bunch of people on a pizza talking about second indifat.

00:42:43.540 I'm not talking about this recent war.

00:42:44.860 It's a whole other conversation.

00:42:45.720 But we had to blow up a whole bunch of people at a bar mitzvah.

00:42:48.980 But, you know, they took our land a long time ago.

00:42:51.160 So we got OK, guys, we need to actually live in the world we're in now and look at ourselves as human beings who make choices and have individual agency.

00:42:59.820 And this is removed from us in these in these processes where they talk about this.

00:43:04.600 I also think anyone who if you strip away the propaganda, if you strip away the confusion and degradation, that is, that the heart of the trans agendas meant aside, both of the individuals suffering from it, but also from all the people who are supposed to clap and say, oh, and like trans affirmation, all this stuff.

00:43:23.260 When they say things like 30 to 40 percent of trans individuals have tried to commit suicide, which also has nothing to do with the mass shooting, Megan, which you just pointed out.

00:43:32.080 Why are we trying to create sympathy?

00:43:33.980 But maybe that's because they're deeply mentally ill.

00:43:39.180 And instead of applause and special days in school celebrating it, we should get them help.

00:43:46.660 They need help.

00:43:49.440 You know, that that that is the kindness, the kindness.

00:43:52.400 And I hate when people weaponize kindness because it really is the most beautiful human thing is to be kind to each other and to take care of each other.

00:43:59.060 But when they say be kind, use the pronouns, pretend that the 200 pound guy who's, you know, breaking girls noses on the female lacrosse field is just a girl like everybody else.

00:44:10.960 First of all, they're being quite unkind to those women.

00:44:14.020 And in the case of these horrible situations with these mass shootings, it's really it is evil for the state and for the society.

00:44:23.820 You're endangering your community.

00:44:25.280 You're endangering your own kids, your society's kids.

00:44:29.020 That's why Bucket's like this year.

00:44:31.860 Before we met Tish Hyman, who is now running for mayor out in L.A., you know her.

00:44:36.580 Oh, I'm going to show you the clip and she's going to come to mine immediately.

00:44:38.940 But that's why it's so I call it I always try to make this show.

00:44:44.120 I call it cool water over a hot brain.

00:44:46.220 You know, like I don't want the audience to ever have to work for it.

00:44:48.920 You know, I want them to hear the news and it's that they understand it immediately because I didn't use a term that not everybody understands without defining it.

00:44:54.940 I didn't reference a news story that not everybody knew about without giving them a quick two liner on it.

00:44:59.960 And Tish Hyman is cool water over a hot brain.

00:45:02.600 Tish Hyman went out to the Gold's Gym and tried to work out and saw this dude pretending to be a woman.

00:45:10.020 But but barely, barely continuously stripping down in the women's locker room.

00:45:15.320 And she had it.

00:45:17.740 I'm going to show you the clip.

00:45:18.640 You'll remember her.

00:45:19.380 But she's cool water.

00:45:20.620 Here it is.

00:45:20.940 At Gold's Gym, men, grown men with big dicks in the women's locker room.

00:45:30.720 And that's why I'm getting kicked out.

00:45:33.220 And I want to make sure the girls know.

00:45:36.420 The fuck?

00:45:39.320 Everybody saw that man in the fucking locker room.

00:45:43.660 No one's saying shit.

00:45:46.680 And I'm fucking done with this.

00:45:49.120 It's fucking stupid.

00:45:51.940 It's dangerous.

00:45:55.220 Me naked in front of a man without my permission.

00:45:58.560 But I'm the one who gets kicked out of the gym, y'all.

00:46:01.300 I'm terminated for not wanting men in the locker room.

00:46:06.060 All right, Buck Sexton, you tell me, as the author of Manufacturing Delusion,

00:46:10.300 what makes a Tish Hyman say, F this, it's a no, versus the so many others who get caught up in the madness, bend the knees, say the pronouns, whatever.

00:46:24.740 We're just on the trans thing right now.

00:46:26.220 But we could apply this across the board on the woke issues.

00:46:28.540 Well, first of all, she's a civil rights hero.

00:46:32.760 And I know that the media will never say that, but she's standing up for the civil rights of women.

00:46:38.820 Full stop.

00:46:39.640 If I had a daughter, I have a little son, but if I had a daughter who was trying to work out in the gym,

00:46:45.560 and she had some dude next to her, you know, the whole, so we can't have gender separate spaces,

00:46:52.120 we can't have women feeling safer, and anyway, we know this, but you're asking a very important question,

00:46:57.560 and I do get into this toward the end of the book.

00:46:59.620 And by the way, one thing that I'll just note, I have a whole chapter, Megan, on how mind control in the era of AI and deepfakes

00:47:09.240 and possibly even brain implants, like we're entering a whole new, so it's really important to understand all this stuff now

00:47:16.700 and how these things work together and how these tactics are used against populations for control and for power,

00:47:25.180 because that's ultimately what this is about.

00:47:26.680 This is about controlling people so that, you know, you can be in power, the group, the entity, whatever, the individual.

00:47:33.300 There was also incredible brilliance and beautiful thought that came out of some of the dissidents,

00:47:39.860 and one of the great examples of that would be Alexander Solzhenitsyn,

00:47:44.560 and his probably most famous phrase is, live not by lies.

00:47:49.760 And that's a, you know, it's a very important proclamation, it's a very important mantra.

00:47:56.520 The woman that you showed here, out at that gym, and I remember that clip very well, we talked about it on radio,

00:48:01.540 she refuses to live by the lie.

00:48:04.580 She just won't do it.

00:48:06.080 And if you go through your life that way, if you refuse to live by lies,

00:48:10.880 it's really hard to control your brain.

00:48:15.260 It's really hard to make you part of the hive mind,

00:48:18.180 to make you a tool in someone else's quest for power,

00:48:22.440 to bring you into political madness, the madness of crowds.

00:48:27.980 And it really all starts with the individual.

00:48:29.520 There's no group defense against this.

00:48:31.580 That's what everyone has to do.

00:48:32.380 It's all an individual.

00:48:33.780 It's a group process of falling into madness,

00:48:36.600 but you only return to your senses one by one,

00:48:40.480 as actually Mackie in The Madness of Crowds wrote, not too far back.

00:48:45.240 So, yeah, that's...

00:48:46.400 Buck, this is incredible.

00:48:48.180 This is such an important book right now.

00:48:49.980 I mean, this social experiment,

00:48:52.520 this seizing of control in every corner is happening all around us.

00:48:58.700 It really does explain what we have seen on the streets of Minneapolis,

00:49:03.260 what we've seen when it comes to the trans madness,

00:49:06.700 what we've seen when it comes to some of these mass shootings,

00:49:09.500 what we've seen with the crazy race essentialism

00:49:11.760 and people pretending that things are as bad right now as they were during Jim Crow.

00:49:16.120 So, it's because these people have been the victims of manufactured delusion.

00:49:22.160 That's the book, Manufacturing Delusion,

00:49:23.880 How the Left Uses Brainwashing, Indoctrination, and Propaganda

00:49:27.920 against you, against its own and against you.

00:49:32.220 But unlike most on the left,

00:49:33.780 you actually have a shot at standing up against it

00:49:36.260 and going with the live not by lies

00:49:38.580 that we saw Tish Hyman stand up for as well.

00:49:41.680 Buck, thank you.

00:49:42.420 I love talking to you.

00:49:43.500 Good luck with the book.

00:49:44.240 Can I say one quick thing?

00:49:44.660 Everybody go buy it and support Buck.

00:49:46.880 Can I say one quick thing?

00:49:47.940 I just think this is particularly full circle, Megan.

00:49:51.640 And I really, first of all, I really appreciate you.

00:49:53.840 And you really find out who your friends are

00:49:55.780 when you've spent 18 months sweating blood and tears for a book

00:49:59.580 and six months of CIA review.

00:50:02.020 Who's, you know, who's got your back?

00:50:03.800 You are my very first interview on pub day.

00:50:06.820 You were the first person that I wanted to talk to about this book.

00:50:09.960 And I think it's full circle

00:50:10.920 because you're also the first person

00:50:12.220 who ever put me on primetime TV

00:50:13.700 when no one had any idea who I was.

00:50:15.720 And look how it's all worked out.

00:50:17.100 I knew you were going to be a star.

00:50:18.060 Thank you.

00:50:18.920 I knew it.

00:50:19.820 I appreciate you very much.

00:50:22.500 Listen, I'd love to say it's all benevolent,

00:50:24.320 but thank you for your excellence.

00:50:25.700 You're always fascinating to talk to, Buck.

00:50:27.520 I never walk away from a segment with you

00:50:29.200 thinking anything other than,

00:50:30.240 my God, he's so smart.

00:50:31.820 Thanks for your being here.

00:50:33.220 And thanks for writing this.

00:50:34.100 This is truly an important book.

00:50:35.480 Awesome.

00:50:35.940 Thanks, everyone.

00:50:36.440 All right, guys, check it out.

00:50:39.640 Manufacturing Delusion.

00:50:40.960 Get it today.

00:50:41.680 As you well know,

00:50:43.100 the New York Times is not going to be doing

00:50:44.540 a nice spread on Buck and his book.

00:50:47.240 So we need to support him

00:50:48.720 and give a middle finger to the New York Times

00:50:50.620 and tell them we decide

00:50:52.160 who's going to be a bestselling author,

00:50:53.960 not them.

00:50:55.040 Okay?

00:50:55.580 Manufacturing Delusion by Buck Sexton.

00:50:57.700 Up next, the latest on the Nancy Guthrie case.

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00:53:06.260 We are now more than two weeks

00:53:08.100 since Nancy Guthrie went missing

00:53:09.760 in Tucson, Arizona.

00:53:11.080 She lives with a pacemaker.

00:53:12.940 Plus, we are told

00:53:13.640 she needs medication to stay alive

00:53:15.240 and has limited mobility.

00:53:17.420 In other words,

00:53:17.980 time is and has been of the essence.

00:53:21.060 And yet, we don't know where she is.

00:53:23.100 And day after day after day,

00:53:27.060 we are seeing a delay

00:53:28.060 on the processing of the DNA

00:53:29.860 found on those black gloves

00:53:32.520 that were found two miles

00:53:33.920 from Nancy Guthrie's home

00:53:35.580 because this local sheriff

00:53:37.260 refused to send the gloves

00:53:38.880 to the FBI lab at Quantico,

00:53:41.080 insisted on using his lab in Florida.

00:53:43.020 And apparently,

00:53:44.080 they're having real difficulty

00:53:45.260 due to the FBI protocols

00:53:46.700 in uploading any of that information

00:53:48.500 or making sure

00:53:49.480 it's of the quality needed

00:53:50.580 in order to run it

00:53:51.800 into the federal database

00:53:53.300 that compares the DNA

00:53:54.680 to that of known criminals

00:53:56.140 or CODIS.

00:53:57.400 It would have been nice

00:53:58.400 if he could have just cooperated

00:53:59.720 with the FBI

00:54:00.340 and conceded

00:54:01.660 that it's possible

00:54:02.660 the gold standard lab at Quantico

00:54:04.360 might do a better job.

00:54:06.020 But it appears to many of us

00:54:07.900 that this is a turf war

00:54:09.020 in the sheriff's mind only.

00:54:11.140 And rather than using

00:54:12.160 all the resources of the FBI

00:54:13.420 in order to expedite things

00:54:14.700 because there's an 84-year-old woman

00:54:16.280 who's missing

00:54:16.840 and maybe dying,

00:54:17.740 he wants to protect his turf.

00:54:21.060 He likes to be in control.

00:54:23.280 There's something very off

00:54:24.220 about this sheriff.

00:54:25.520 Very off.

00:54:26.660 Okay?

00:54:28.460 Yesterday, we told you

00:54:29.740 during our show

00:54:31.080 that while the sheriff

00:54:32.680 was trying to say,

00:54:33.640 or NBC News at that point

00:54:34.840 had said,

00:54:35.620 they're moving away

00:54:37.140 from the family.

00:54:38.240 Then after the show,

00:54:39.180 the sheriff came out

00:54:39.800 and said,

00:54:40.660 none of the family members

00:54:41.600 are a suspect.

00:54:42.600 I'm saying it affirmatively.

00:54:44.320 The family members

00:54:45.300 are not suspects

00:54:46.900 in this case.

00:54:48.960 Okay?

00:54:49.580 That's not consistent

00:54:50.740 with what we were told

00:54:52.140 by our federal

00:54:53.660 law enforcement sources,

00:54:55.280 which was,

00:54:56.540 no one's been ruled out.

00:54:58.000 No one has been ruled out,

00:55:00.780 including members

00:55:01.500 of the family.

00:55:02.700 Diametrically opposed information.

00:55:04.340 So we decided

00:55:05.200 to go back and say,

00:55:06.080 all right,

00:55:06.300 well, what is it?

00:55:06.940 The sheriff's the sheriff.

00:55:07.980 He may have learned something

00:55:08.980 that changed

00:55:10.000 what he told the Daily Mail

00:55:11.400 on Sunday,

00:55:12.620 which was the same

00:55:13.700 as our federal source.

00:55:16.120 No one's been ruled out.

00:55:17.800 That was Sunday.

00:55:18.660 Then Monday,

00:55:19.320 the sheriff said,

00:55:20.020 all the family's been ruled out.

00:55:22.180 What happened?

00:55:23.300 Do we get DNA back?

00:55:24.740 Do we get a polygraph?

00:55:26.300 Do we get phone data?

00:55:27.700 What did we get?

00:55:28.780 Here is what we got.

00:55:33.420 The sheriff,

00:55:34.740 according to Matt Finn

00:55:35.600 of Fox News,

00:55:36.960 Matt reports,

00:55:37.820 quote,

00:55:37.980 I just asked Sheriff Nonos

00:55:39.120 if DNA helped clear

00:55:40.120 the Guthrie family

00:55:40.820 from being suspects.

00:55:41.740 He says,

00:55:42.200 quote,

00:55:42.680 not going there.

00:55:43.700 They are victims

00:55:44.520 and I will not stand quiet

00:55:46.120 when they are re-victimized.

00:55:48.020 It is not just my duty.

00:55:50.140 It is every cop's duty

00:55:51.520 to stand up

00:55:52.360 and be the voice for victims.

00:55:54.580 What?

00:55:55.800 Enter Tom Winter

00:55:56.760 of NBC News,

00:55:57.980 who reports it explicitly,

00:55:59.680 quote,

00:56:00.020 there is no indication

00:56:00.920 this is the result

00:56:01.660 of any new evidence.

00:56:04.060 No indication

00:56:04.960 this is the result

00:56:05.700 of any new evidence

00:56:07.480 whatsoever.

00:56:09.640 So what happened here,

00:56:11.120 quite clearly,

00:56:11.700 is the sheriff

00:56:12.920 decided,

00:56:14.760 probably after a phone call

00:56:16.020 from the family,

00:56:16.740 he says he mostly speaks

00:56:17.900 to Savannah,

00:56:19.240 to just say,

00:56:20.900 nobody there is a suspect

00:56:21.740 anymore.

00:56:22.860 When 24 hours earlier,

00:56:24.460 he said,

00:56:24.800 no one's been cleared.

00:56:25.520 And that's what we were told

00:56:26.580 by our federal law enforcement

00:56:27.780 source too.

00:56:28.740 No one has been cleared.

00:56:29.880 But magically,

00:56:32.160 over the course of 24 hours,

00:56:33.580 because it's his duty

00:56:34.540 to stand up

00:56:35.680 and be the voice

00:56:36.400 for the victims

00:56:37.040 and will not stand quiet

00:56:38.280 when they are re-victimized,

00:56:40.780 the sheriff finds

00:56:42.100 the wherewithal to say,

00:56:43.440 just no one's a suspect

00:56:44.300 in the family.

00:56:45.540 Okay,

00:56:46.120 maybe that's true.

00:56:47.860 Maybe they're not

00:56:48.360 the prime suspects now.

00:56:49.600 Maybe they're moving

00:56:50.260 away from the family,

00:56:51.080 as NBC reported yesterday.

00:56:52.760 But it's diametrically

00:56:54.580 opposed to what both

00:56:56.100 the sheriff said

00:56:57.460 24 hours earlier

00:56:58.360 and what my sources said

00:57:00.440 within hours

00:57:01.540 of our reporting yesterday.

00:57:02.900 Okay?

00:57:03.320 So something's off.

00:57:05.140 And we don't do feelings

00:57:06.740 in a criminal investigation.

00:57:08.980 We don't do feelings.

00:57:09.820 We do facts.

00:57:10.860 Okay?

00:57:11.480 That's how it's supposed to work.

00:57:12.980 And the sheriff

00:57:13.520 should know better.

00:57:15.420 It's actually quite interesting now

00:57:16.980 because I'll show you

00:57:19.580 what the douchebag

00:57:21.080 Chris Cuomo is saying.

00:57:22.400 In fact,

00:57:22.660 let's just play it now.

00:57:23.760 It's SOT 52.

00:57:25.420 He's very upset

00:57:26.260 that Ashley Banfield

00:57:27.720 and yours truly

00:57:28.340 have raised questions

00:57:29.240 about the brother-in-law,

00:57:30.780 Ashley's reporting.

00:57:31.980 And based on Ashley's reporting,

00:57:33.280 we've asked questions

00:57:34.160 on this program.

00:57:35.220 And here's Fredo Cuomo

00:57:36.980 on his little-known show

00:57:40.560 on News Nation,

00:57:41.500 which has less viewers

00:57:43.040 than I have fingers.

00:57:44.800 Now, look,

00:57:45.620 I've never heard law enforcement

00:57:46.900 make this kind of a statement

00:57:47.980 during an investigation.

00:57:48.840 And I'm not calling

00:57:49.780 for the family

00:57:50.440 to be removed from suspicion.

00:57:51.980 The job is the job.

00:57:53.740 Right?

00:57:54.580 But the job is also,

00:57:55.840 you don't speculate

00:57:56.660 just because you don't care

00:57:58.340 that you're destroying

00:57:59.040 this family

00:57:59.720 just because it may

00:58:01.280 get you some clicks.

00:58:02.600 But I want to correct

00:58:03.680 something the sheriff said.

00:58:05.000 It's not the media.

00:58:07.080 No one who pays attention

00:58:08.280 to the law

00:58:08.980 or any standard of decency

00:58:10.860 is doing this.

00:58:12.600 What these digital people

00:58:13.820 are doing.

00:58:14.280 It's the digital media.

00:58:15.560 It's those denizens.

00:58:17.000 It's people who get paid

00:58:18.180 for clicks and rage bait.

00:58:20.220 All right?

00:58:20.940 These fugazi,

00:58:22.320 sloppy influencers

00:58:23.500 and would-be sleuths.

00:58:25.500 Right?

00:58:26.160 The truth about whether

00:58:27.860 Nancy Guthrie's family

00:58:29.400 is under scrutiny.

00:58:30.520 She doesn't know

00:58:30.900 a damn thing.

00:58:32.260 The reason the cops

00:58:33.420 are going back to the comb

00:58:34.580 is because the police

00:58:35.420 think she did it.

00:58:36.760 Where'd she get that?

00:58:38.480 Bullshit.

00:58:40.180 The video messages

00:58:41.140 from the family

00:58:41.900 are like a movie.

00:58:43.140 It's from Silence of the Lambs.

00:58:45.060 Are they,

00:58:45.460 why are they doing that?

00:58:47.900 Okay.

00:58:48.860 So let me tell you

00:58:49.960 what Fredo

00:58:50.580 is really upset about.

00:58:51.980 He has,

00:58:53.000 Fredo no Rado.

00:58:54.200 That's his real problem.

00:58:55.460 Nobody watches his show

00:58:56.500 on News Nation.

00:58:57.300 And I mean nobody.

00:58:58.680 And nobody watches

00:58:59.620 his failed podcast either.

00:59:01.460 Nobody watched

00:59:02.060 his serious radio show.

00:59:03.460 Nobody watched him

00:59:04.200 on CNN.

00:59:05.240 And therefore,

00:59:06.640 he gets upset

00:59:07.560 at anybody who does well

00:59:09.140 like our show,

00:59:10.300 which is always

00:59:11.820 one of the top three

00:59:12.780 conservative podcasts

00:59:13.700 in the nation.

00:59:14.620 It's currently number one

00:59:15.800 on Apple.

00:59:17.440 Fredo doesn't like that.

00:59:18.820 Okay?

00:59:19.520 Because as I say,

00:59:20.440 Fredo no Rado.

00:59:21.180 So he gets upset

00:59:22.620 and he gets jealous.

00:59:24.160 Sometimes in the past

00:59:25.160 on this show,

00:59:25.700 we've called out Fredo

00:59:26.540 for his terrible behavior,

00:59:27.880 for his bad ratings,

00:59:29.860 for his lies

00:59:30.740 about bumping into people

00:59:31.980 who just happen

00:59:32.500 to be listening

00:59:32.940 to his podcast

00:59:33.820 because literally

00:59:34.460 nobody does.

00:59:35.860 And Fredo

00:59:36.300 can't take criticism.

00:59:37.940 And I'll tell you something

00:59:38.640 I've never told before.

00:59:40.000 Fredo actually called

00:59:41.060 my lawyer,

00:59:42.580 who he happened

00:59:43.340 to use briefly

00:59:44.400 on a legal matter,

00:59:45.360 and begged the lawyer

00:59:47.380 to get me

00:59:48.600 to stop mentioning him.

00:59:51.420 He didn't want me

00:59:52.960 to attack him

00:59:54.220 because it hurt

00:59:55.100 his little feelings.

00:59:56.440 So now Fredo

00:59:57.020 sees an opportunity

00:59:57.860 to attack yours truly

00:59:59.480 because, of course,

01:00:00.720 we're doing well

01:00:01.420 with this story too,

01:00:02.440 as we do when we do

01:00:03.380 other news,

01:00:04.440 which Fredo

01:00:05.160 can't relate to.

01:00:06.220 So Fredo's upset

01:00:07.480 and Fredo's trying

01:00:08.540 to play the protector

01:00:09.520 of the Guthrie family.

01:00:12.400 Meanwhile,

01:00:13.420 there are few in news

01:00:14.640 who have done more

01:00:15.860 for the Guthrie family

01:00:16.780 than this show.

01:00:18.060 We have covered this story

01:00:19.580 extensively since it broke

01:00:21.320 because Fredo

01:00:22.960 doesn't understand,

01:00:23.860 but I too am a newswoman

01:00:26.080 like Savannah.

01:00:27.140 I too worked

01:00:27.860 at the Today Show

01:00:28.840 like Savannah Guthrie.

01:00:30.260 I too have been the victim

01:00:31.520 of a deranged stalker,

01:00:33.160 which may be one

01:00:33.840 of the possibilities here,

01:00:35.040 something Fredo

01:00:35.640 doesn't realize

01:00:36.200 we've covered extensively

01:00:37.120 as well on this program.

01:00:38.860 I too know Ashley Banfield

01:00:41.500 extremely well

01:00:42.400 and she's had

01:00:43.300 extremely solid reporting

01:00:45.020 for 20 years

01:00:45.780 in the crime

01:00:46.620 and other fields as well.

01:00:48.000 And so when she tells me

01:00:48.820 she's got a solid source,

01:00:49.760 I take her very seriously.

01:00:51.160 And I also saw

01:00:52.820 this matter being discussed,

01:00:54.300 guess where else?

01:00:55.020 On News Nation,

01:00:55.920 all around Fredo,

01:00:57.040 by Elizabeth Vargas,

01:00:58.240 by Jesse Weber,

01:00:59.580 Dan Abrams,

01:01:00.280 who had the show

01:01:00.800 right before Chris Abrams

01:01:01.920 or Chris Cuomo for years,

01:01:03.800 did a long segment on it

01:01:04.920 with Ashley Banfield.

01:01:06.060 It's all over Fox News,

01:01:07.300 Jesse Waters,

01:01:08.960 Sean Hannity,

01:01:09.780 up and down the lineup,

01:01:10.580 Laura Ingraham,

01:01:10.920 all of them have discussed

01:01:12.160 whether the brother-in-law

01:01:13.300 had anything to do with it

01:01:14.780 because in an investigation

01:01:16.780 like this,

01:01:17.840 you don't rule out family

01:01:18.780 because of feelings,

01:01:20.520 because of your little feelings,

01:01:21.720 Fredo,

01:01:22.360 because I know you're

01:01:23.220 in the business

01:01:23.620 of protecting your family.

01:01:25.080 Okay, we learned that firsthand

01:01:26.180 during COVID

01:01:27.180 when you put your loser brother

01:01:28.620 on there

01:01:29.100 and ran cover for him

01:01:30.320 and then ultimately

01:01:30.920 it was one of the things

01:01:31.960 that led to your downfall

01:01:32.880 because you didn't report honestly

01:01:34.500 on his many, many problems

01:01:35.840 during COVID

01:01:36.760 or his many, many problems

01:01:38.040 in grabbing women.

01:01:39.060 And perhaps the reason

01:01:40.280 you chose not to do that

01:01:41.260 is because you yourself

01:01:42.480 were accused of having

01:01:43.380 a Me Too problem

01:01:44.160 as you well know.

01:01:45.800 Okay?

01:01:46.280 We had the senior executive producer

01:01:47.960 on this program

01:01:48.660 who talked all about you

01:01:50.160 and your behavior

01:01:51.300 in a bar with her.

01:01:52.380 There was another woman

01:01:53.300 at CNN

01:01:54.480 who came forward

01:01:55.220 against you

01:01:55.940 who did a whole podcast

01:01:57.620 about the discomfort

01:01:59.040 you made her feel.

01:01:59.920 And then there was

01:02:00.520 an anonymous woman

01:02:01.180 who came forward

01:02:01.720 who was the last straw

01:02:02.520 before your firing.

01:02:03.720 So you have a long history,

01:02:05.300 I understand,

01:02:05.820 of running cover for family.

01:02:07.220 That's not what we do here

01:02:08.580 on the actual news.

01:02:10.980 We talk about

01:02:11.760 what the police are doing

01:02:13.140 and we try to glean

01:02:14.380 where the investigation

01:02:15.380 is going.

01:02:16.640 And we especially do that

01:02:17.920 when we have a sheriff

01:02:18.600 who repeatedly,

01:02:19.760 when asked

01:02:20.500 whether anyone

01:02:21.060 has been ruled out,

01:02:22.280 says no.

01:02:23.200 No one's been ruled out.

01:02:24.600 Absolutely not.

01:02:25.480 Not the family.

01:02:26.600 No one.

01:02:27.560 No one's been ruled out.

01:02:29.720 Everyone remains a suspect

01:02:31.040 until we have somebody

01:02:32.080 in handcuffs.

01:02:33.720 That's the way you do it.

01:02:34.760 And you especially

01:02:35.620 do it that way

01:02:36.460 when the sheriff

01:02:38.040 tows the car

01:02:40.620 belonging to the sister

01:02:42.380 and her husband

01:02:43.220 and impounds it.

01:02:44.920 You do that

01:02:45.500 when the sheriff

01:02:46.240 and the FBI

01:02:46.900 continuously return

01:02:48.380 to the sister

01:02:49.420 and her husband's home

01:02:51.120 taking pictures

01:02:52.320 in the middle of the night

01:02:53.360 with the lights off

01:02:54.640 suggesting there may be

01:02:56.560 something that they need

01:02:57.380 to capture

01:02:57.820 in the same hour of night

01:02:59.460 as Nancy Guthrie

01:03:00.780 went missing from her home.

01:03:02.720 Go back time and time

01:03:04.640 and time again

01:03:05.740 to search the home

01:03:06.640 and take belongings

01:03:07.640 from the home

01:03:08.220 and take photographs

01:03:09.000 of the home

01:03:09.620 which is not the crime scene.

01:03:11.700 So this is what

01:03:12.540 a responsible reporter does.

01:03:15.080 What they don't do

01:03:16.180 is stage news.

01:03:18.200 Okay?

01:03:18.520 I just,

01:03:19.020 I need to help you Fredo

01:03:20.020 because you're a little

01:03:21.300 begging to my lawyer

01:03:22.600 to get me to lay off

01:03:23.640 if you didn't work.

01:03:24.800 So this is what

01:03:26.180 you're going to have

01:03:26.580 to deal with.

01:03:27.280 Actual facts

01:03:28.100 when you try to come

01:03:29.300 for yours truly.

01:03:31.220 This is what we don't do.

01:03:32.780 We do cover facts.

01:03:33.880 We do follow leads

01:03:35.100 but we don't stage news,

01:03:36.880 Fredo.

01:03:37.420 We do not pretend

01:03:38.720 that we are walking

01:03:39.920 out of the basement,

01:03:40.960 our basement,

01:03:42.020 during COVID,

01:03:43.020 haven't smelled

01:03:43.760 the fresh air

01:03:44.560 in months

01:03:45.980 when everybody knows

01:03:47.920 you were on the street

01:03:49.120 in an altercation

01:03:50.660 involving your bicycle

01:03:51.720 weeks earlier.

01:03:53.080 Remember this moment

01:03:53.860 on CNN?

01:03:54.400 All right,

01:03:56.120 here is the official

01:03:57.680 re-entry

01:03:58.880 from the basement

01:04:00.060 cleared by CDC.

01:04:02.340 A little sweaty.

01:04:03.180 Just worked out.

01:04:04.020 Happens.

01:04:05.580 This is what

01:04:06.820 I've been dreaming of

01:04:07.760 literally for weeks.

01:04:10.120 My wife,

01:04:11.040 yeah,

01:04:11.320 she was cleared

01:04:14.460 by the CDC.

01:04:15.780 She doesn't have fever.

01:04:16.860 She doesn't have

01:04:17.160 the symptoms anymore.

01:04:18.080 More than seven days

01:04:18.980 from quarantine.

01:04:20.560 We're still a little scared

01:04:21.740 so I'll just give you

01:04:22.440 one of these.

01:04:23.520 Just give you one of these.

01:04:25.180 Just give you one of these.

01:04:26.720 Just give you one of these.

01:04:28.140 Bella has,

01:04:28.800 of course,

01:04:29.000 taken the video.

01:04:30.820 This is the dream.

01:04:32.620 This is for when

01:04:33.180 we go outside.

01:04:34.720 That's what we have to do

01:04:35.700 now,

01:04:36.020 all of us,

01:04:36.560 in New York.

01:04:37.140 So anyway,

01:04:37.980 I'm back.

01:04:39.200 His mask.

01:04:39.740 It was all fake.

01:04:42.760 He'd been on the street.

01:04:44.200 It had made

01:04:44.920 the New York Post

01:04:45.980 and he humiliated himself

01:04:47.800 and he continues

01:04:48.920 to humiliate himself

01:04:49.960 with his four viewers.

01:04:51.700 Envy is a very

01:04:52.980 unattractive thing,

01:04:54.040 Fredo.

01:04:54.820 Work on that.

01:04:56.060 In any event,

01:04:56.680 we've had a few updates

01:04:57.980 since our show yesterday,

01:04:59.700 including News Nation's

01:05:01.120 Brian Enten

01:05:01.800 saying the FBI

01:05:02.940 is now visiting

01:05:04.220 gun stores

01:05:05.240 with a list of

01:05:06.420 40 names

01:05:07.220 and 40 photos.

01:05:08.760 That's very interesting.

01:05:10.820 Agents are asking

01:05:11.560 whether the people

01:05:12.240 on the list

01:05:13.160 have purchased

01:05:14.420 a gun

01:05:15.080 at that store

01:05:16.600 that they're visiting.

01:05:17.680 It's unclear

01:05:18.260 if all 40

01:05:18.980 are persons of interest

01:05:19.860 or what exactly

01:05:20.620 is happening there.

01:05:21.420 I have a theory,

01:05:22.180 but more importantly,

01:05:23.160 my panel's going

01:05:23.860 to have thoughts.

01:05:24.920 Joining me now

01:05:25.240 for reaction,

01:05:26.020 Chad Ayers,

01:05:26.700 former SWAT team leader,

01:05:28.560 former Navy SEAL

01:05:29.480 and FBI special agent

01:05:30.600 Jonathan Gillum,

01:05:31.760 and Maureen O'Connell,

01:05:32.840 a 25-year-old veteran

01:05:33.920 of the FBI

01:05:34.700 and co-host of

01:05:35.540 the best case,

01:05:37.080 worst case

01:05:37.760 podcast.

01:05:38.980 Great to see you all.

01:05:40.180 Welcome back, guys.

01:05:41.520 So it's very interesting to me.

01:05:43.220 We'll get to

01:05:43.960 the gun stores

01:05:44.940 in a second.

01:05:45.700 But the fact

01:05:46.320 that the sheriff

01:05:47.380 comes out,

01:05:48.960 Jonathan,

01:05:49.600 just based on

01:05:50.320 feelings,

01:05:52.140 it's my obligation,

01:05:53.600 he says,

01:05:54.040 that they are victims

01:05:56.240 and I will not stand quiet

01:05:57.700 when they are re-victimized.

01:05:59.640 It's just my duty.

01:06:00.980 It's every cop's duty

01:06:02.100 to stand up

01:06:02.760 and be the voice

01:06:03.380 for victims.

01:06:03.980 With NBC reporting,

01:06:05.560 there is no indication

01:06:06.800 this is the result

01:06:07.760 of any new evidence

01:06:09.900 whatsoever.

01:06:11.300 So what is the sheriff doing?

01:06:13.320 Well,

01:06:13.760 I think he's making

01:06:14.180 an emotional statement

01:06:15.560 and it's not based in fact

01:06:17.860 because you can't clear people

01:06:20.520 unless you know the motive

01:06:22.080 and you know,

01:06:22.820 you have suspects

01:06:24.120 and you have,

01:06:26.120 and perhaps they do have that stuff

01:06:27.920 and he's not saying,

01:06:28.520 but he's not the voice

01:06:30.460 of the family

01:06:31.940 and he doesn't speak

01:06:34.140 for the family.

01:06:35.840 He is there

01:06:36.980 leading an investigation

01:06:38.140 and so,

01:06:39.700 you know,

01:06:40.360 as you go through

01:06:41.560 and do case study

01:06:42.700 after case study,

01:06:43.860 you'll see where law enforcement

01:06:45.520 has cleared family members

01:06:46.820 before only to come back

01:06:48.140 years later

01:06:48.720 and find out

01:06:49.680 that it was a family member

01:06:50.720 that profited

01:06:51.900 from the death

01:06:52.660 of someone

01:06:53.440 and actually

01:06:54.960 either hired somebody

01:06:56.500 to do it

01:06:56.960 or carried it out

01:06:57.820 in some way

01:06:58.780 that they just weren't able

01:06:59.580 to find until later on.

01:07:00.860 So listen,

01:07:02.220 if it was one misspeak

01:07:03.700 by this sheriff,

01:07:04.580 that would be one thing,

01:07:05.640 but he keeps saying

01:07:06.860 and doing things

01:07:07.760 that I think

01:07:09.220 have put this investigation

01:07:11.000 in real jeopardy

01:07:11.920 and I think

01:07:13.300 any time

01:07:14.000 that you tell

01:07:14.720 the public

01:07:16.140 that you need

01:07:18.200 to calm down

01:07:18.820 or tell the media

01:07:19.480 you need to calm down,

01:07:20.760 the problem with that

01:07:21.720 is that you're losing

01:07:22.840 that force multiplier.

01:07:24.460 So instead of saying

01:07:25.540 these people

01:07:26.060 are no longer

01:07:26.820 a suspect

01:07:28.480 they're cleared,

01:07:29.480 he should just

01:07:29.960 come out and say

01:07:30.500 listen,

01:07:31.240 the vitriol

01:07:31.700 is getting so bad

01:07:32.460 against people

01:07:32.920 that you have

01:07:33.340 no evidence against

01:07:34.300 and we're not

01:07:36.040 looking at currently

01:07:37.100 that you're causing

01:07:38.420 threats,

01:07:38.960 you're causing

01:07:39.340 potential danger

01:07:40.180 to these families

01:07:40.800 and I need that

01:07:41.380 to stop

01:07:41.820 because it's

01:07:42.180 hampering the investigation.

01:07:43.540 You see how much

01:07:44.060 better that would have

01:07:45.200 been if he would

01:07:45.740 have said that?

01:07:46.720 I mean,

01:07:47.240 this guy,

01:07:48.520 he's pointed out

01:07:49.460 once that

01:07:50.820 one of the reporters

01:07:51.880 asked him a question,

01:07:52.720 she had a name

01:07:54.760 that resembled

01:07:55.280 a male's name

01:07:56.040 and he got in

01:07:56.880 a conversation

01:07:57.560 laughing about that.

01:07:58.960 This is like

01:07:59.460 two days after

01:08:00.480 this disappearance

01:08:01.540 and so I think

01:08:03.820 that he just,

01:08:05.960 he's been in,

01:08:06.620 it says law enforcement

01:08:07.400 in his bio

01:08:07.840 for 50 years

01:08:08.660 but for somebody

01:08:09.720 who's been in law

01:08:10.240 enforcement for 50 years

01:08:11.420 he does not know

01:08:12.400 how to work the media

01:08:13.740 and he certainly

01:08:14.680 does not know

01:08:15.300 how to run

01:08:15.800 a task force investigation

01:08:17.420 that utilizes

01:08:18.880 all the tools

01:08:20.200 in the toolbox.

01:08:20.920 Well,

01:08:22.180 here's what's crazy,

01:08:22.820 Maureen,

01:08:23.060 now he's saying

01:08:23.900 to Local 13 News

01:08:25.740 that the family's

01:08:26.540 been 100% cooperative

01:08:27.540 if he said that before

01:08:28.360 and that family members

01:08:29.800 were ruled out

01:08:30.400 as suspects

01:08:30.880 in the first few days.

01:08:33.500 Now,

01:08:34.500 if he means Savannah,

01:08:36.120 I can accept that.

01:08:37.240 I believe she was

01:08:37.800 in New York

01:08:38.400 at the time

01:08:38.920 her mother went missing

01:08:39.760 but if he's referring

01:08:41.260 to Annie and Tomas,

01:08:43.420 it's a lie.

01:08:44.540 That's a lie

01:08:45.240 and we know

01:08:46.260 it's a lie

01:08:46.820 because we need

01:08:47.800 only to look back

01:08:48.740 at the sheriff's

01:08:50.000 own statements.

01:08:51.560 Here he is

01:08:52.240 in a montage

01:08:53.660 dating back

01:08:54.940 since the beginning

01:08:55.620 of this case

01:08:56.200 in SOT 50.

01:08:57.980 Nobody's eliminated

01:08:58.900 but we just really

01:09:00.440 don't have

01:09:01.400 enough to say

01:09:02.580 this is our suspect,

01:09:03.820 this is our guy,

01:09:04.640 we know,

01:09:05.300 or our gal.

01:09:06.220 We just don't know that.

01:09:07.260 Are you actively

01:09:08.080 investigating the son-in-law

01:09:09.980 in this case?

01:09:10.840 You said you haven't

01:09:11.400 eliminated everybody.

01:09:13.120 Have you eliminated him

01:09:14.120 or come close to him?

01:09:15.040 We're actively looking

01:09:16.340 at everybody

01:09:17.280 we come across

01:09:18.180 in this case.

01:09:19.220 Everybody.

01:09:19.900 It's so cliche.

01:09:21.000 But everybody's

01:09:21.580 still a suspect

01:09:22.200 in our eyes.

01:09:23.060 That's just how

01:09:23.620 we look at things

01:09:24.460 and think as cops.

01:09:26.540 Does that mean

01:09:27.000 we have a prime suspect?

01:09:28.800 No.

01:09:29.400 And the family

01:09:30.420 has been very cooperative.

01:09:33.040 They've done everything

01:09:35.240 we've asked of them

01:09:36.060 and we want

01:09:37.500 that relationship

01:09:38.640 to continue.

01:09:40.860 And sometimes

01:09:41.500 people can be

01:09:43.080 mean out there

01:09:44.120 and that can

01:09:46.840 really harm us

01:09:47.860 and harm our efforts.

01:09:50.240 Weird, Maureen.

01:09:51.340 That doesn't sound

01:09:52.440 the same to me

01:09:53.460 as all of the family members

01:09:54.760 have been ruled out

01:09:55.420 as suspects

01:09:55.840 from day one.

01:09:56.960 No, it doesn't.

01:09:58.060 And he acts

01:09:59.160 as if we're all

01:09:59.980 being unreasonable

01:10:00.800 for even questioning

01:10:02.080 whether or not

01:10:04.300 Nancy or Annie

01:10:07.000 and her husband

01:10:07.720 are involved

01:10:08.680 when,

01:10:09.700 as I've said

01:10:10.560 numerous times,

01:10:11.600 and all of us

01:10:13.580 on this panel here,

01:10:15.020 we've done a number

01:10:15.800 of rollback warrants

01:10:17.160 to different locations

01:10:18.120 but I've never done

01:10:19.000 six on one location.

01:10:21.260 I mean,

01:10:21.960 we're just following,

01:10:23.340 we're the ones

01:10:23.980 following the facts.

01:10:25.200 When law enforcement

01:10:26.600 shows up at a house

01:10:28.000 over and over

01:10:29.660 and over

01:10:30.580 and seizes a vehicle,

01:10:34.600 you know,

01:10:35.180 and then

01:10:35.520 the one,

01:10:37.000 her husband,

01:10:38.000 Tommaso,

01:10:38.540 has been

01:10:38.960 completely out of pocket.

01:10:40.580 No one has seen him

01:10:41.920 since that day

01:10:43.020 he did like that,

01:10:44.200 you know,

01:10:45.340 the gangster lean

01:10:46.280 in his car

01:10:46.860 trying to get away

01:10:47.940 from the press.

01:10:50.800 We're not the ones

01:10:51.800 being unreasonable here.

01:10:53.240 And the only thing

01:10:54.020 that this sheriff

01:10:55.740 has said

01:10:56.200 that has been

01:10:56.680 definitive and decisive

01:10:57.800 since the very beginning

01:10:59.120 of this case

01:10:59.840 was this report

01:11:02.020 that the whole family

01:11:03.120 is just

01:11:03.800 not even in the crosshairs

01:11:05.440 for this investigation

01:11:06.460 any longer.

01:11:07.980 Don't even think about it.

01:11:09.220 Don finito.

01:11:09.940 Well,

01:11:10.600 that's going to be

01:11:11.040 a big problem

01:11:11.760 if we can't bring

01:11:13.220 someone to justice

01:11:14.800 and then

01:11:15.660 as

01:11:16.240 our other panel member

01:11:18.200 said

01:11:18.520 and then

01:11:19.240 two years

01:11:19.780 or three years

01:11:20.440 down the road

01:11:21.020 we get additional

01:11:21.740 information

01:11:22.280 and now

01:11:23.120 we're saying

01:11:24.000 oh yeah,

01:11:24.580 someone is in the frame

01:11:25.780 for this again.

01:11:27.120 Now what are we going to do?

01:11:28.080 It's going to cause

01:11:28.600 problems for the trial.

01:11:29.880 You've got to think

01:11:30.340 about the trial more.

01:11:32.080 You know,

01:11:32.420 focus on what

01:11:33.360 this trial is going

01:11:34.100 to look like.

01:11:35.520 Chad,

01:11:36.040 I think about

01:11:36.820 you know,

01:11:38.220 the

01:11:38.440 Tomas is who

01:11:40.460 people have speculated

01:11:41.200 about

01:11:41.480 originally based

01:11:42.500 on Ashley Banfield's

01:11:43.340 reporting

01:11:43.640 but also because

01:11:44.460 obviously you look

01:11:46.000 at the family first

01:11:46.820 and you know

01:11:47.600 who else you look at?

01:11:48.460 You look at the last

01:11:49.120 person we know

01:11:49.780 for a fact

01:11:50.360 to have seen her

01:11:51.280 and that is

01:11:52.500 Tomas Sioni

01:11:53.820 Annie's husband.

01:11:55.000 How do we know that?

01:11:56.220 From the sheriff.

01:11:57.780 The sheriff told us

01:11:58.860 that.

01:11:59.200 He said it to

01:12:00.320 the New York Times

01:12:01.040 on the record

01:12:01.940 and then admitted

01:12:03.440 that when he went

01:12:04.760 back to that presser

01:12:05.720 and said

01:12:06.180 oh we're going to

01:12:07.280 go with just

01:12:07.760 the family

01:12:08.280 he changed that

01:12:09.580 only because

01:12:11.100 he didn't want

01:12:12.220 to draw too much

01:12:12.900 attention onto

01:12:13.900 Tomas.

01:12:14.800 Well that's the most

01:12:15.780 foolhardy thing ever.

01:12:17.720 You can't say

01:12:19.100 I'm changing it

01:12:20.440 from Tomas

01:12:21.580 to just the family

01:12:23.140 because I want

01:12:24.220 to remove

01:12:25.040 any suspicion

01:12:25.760 or focus

01:12:26.720 on Tomas

01:12:27.580 especially when

01:12:28.560 you've been going

01:12:29.280 to his house

01:12:29.840 overnight repeatedly

01:12:30.920 you've sent people

01:12:31.900 in there to search

01:12:32.580 who have left

01:12:33.140 with evidence bags

01:12:34.320 and we know

01:12:35.140 that you impounded

01:12:35.840 the family car

01:12:36.600 and you refuse

01:12:37.500 over and over again

01:12:38.300 to say

01:12:38.740 that he's not

01:12:39.480 a suspect

01:12:39.900 on camera

01:12:41.180 to reporters

01:12:42.280 from the beginning

01:12:42.920 of the case.

01:12:44.280 I mean the sheriff

01:12:44.840 needs some serious

01:12:45.720 media training

01:12:46.620 so obviously

01:12:47.580 he's not good

01:12:49.120 at crisis management

01:12:50.040 either.

01:12:50.640 He's not good

01:12:51.120 at crime scene

01:12:51.920 management

01:12:52.480 at all.

01:12:53.500 We've got

01:12:53.780 investigators

01:12:54.900 discarding their gloves

01:12:56.260 we've had

01:12:57.180 I still don't

01:12:58.660 do not understand

01:12:59.360 why Nancy's house

01:13:00.340 was not roped off

01:13:01.460 taped off

01:13:02.500 sealed until

01:13:03.520 she's brought home

01:13:04.200 we talked about

01:13:04.700 that the other day

01:13:05.580 we are seeing

01:13:06.660 sloppy sloppy

01:13:08.080 investigations going

01:13:09.500 on here

01:13:10.060 and just like

01:13:10.880 Maureen said

01:13:11.460 this is this very

01:13:12.520 well Megan

01:13:13.320 can affect the trial

01:13:14.560 if and when

01:13:15.480 someone is brought

01:13:16.220 into custody

01:13:16.780 for this

01:13:17.340 so again

01:13:18.600 what is going

01:13:19.560 on

01:13:19.960 this is police

01:13:21.080 101

01:13:21.540 I mean this sheriff

01:13:22.400 is acting like

01:13:22.900 he's on paw patrol

01:13:23.820 this is policing 101

01:13:25.720 you start

01:13:26.840 with the family

01:13:28.200 all right

01:13:28.780 you start

01:13:29.340 with the people

01:13:29.860 who last saw

01:13:30.840 Nancy

01:13:31.260 family

01:13:32.140 so again

01:13:33.100 in this back

01:13:33.720 and forth stuff

01:13:34.400 this is why

01:13:34.920 nobody

01:13:35.320 you know

01:13:35.880 has any

01:13:36.280 credibility

01:13:36.980 with this guy

01:13:37.800 it's so true

01:13:39.780 and he's not

01:13:40.980 doing anybody

01:13:41.400 any favors

01:13:41.900 if this were me

01:13:42.840 and my mother

01:13:43.480 God forbid

01:13:43.980 I wouldn't care

01:13:45.180 if they focused

01:13:45.680 on me

01:13:46.140 my husband

01:13:46.980 my brother-in-law

01:13:48.060 my sister-in-law

01:13:49.300 anybody

01:13:49.680 I would not

01:13:50.360 as long as

01:13:51.080 they were still

01:13:51.620 talking about

01:13:52.280 my case

01:13:52.820 I'd be thrilled

01:13:53.960 that's it

01:13:55.060 what is

01:13:55.720 the family

01:13:56.440 of every

01:13:57.400 missing person

01:13:58.400 want

01:13:58.960 media

01:14:00.040 coverage

01:14:00.980 they would

01:14:01.820 give anything

01:14:02.800 to have the

01:14:03.720 three of you

01:14:04.420 moderating a panel

01:14:06.020 about their

01:14:07.180 missing loved one

01:14:07.960 day in

01:14:08.700 day out

01:14:09.320 if they had to

01:14:09.880 be the subject

01:14:10.340 of the speculation

01:14:11.020 so be it

01:14:12.340 the whole point

01:14:13.360 is to keep

01:14:13.980 your loved one

01:14:14.600 in the news

01:14:15.620 so that people

01:14:16.540 are still thinking

01:14:17.500 about her

01:14:18.180 and looking

01:14:19.060 for her

01:14:19.500 that's

01:14:20.280 the name

01:14:21.080 of the game

01:14:21.700 it's the only

01:14:22.500 name of the game

01:14:23.280 when it comes

01:14:24.160 to finding

01:14:24.560 a missing

01:14:24.940 person

01:14:25.380 assuming you

01:14:26.320 have a competent

01:14:26.940 law enforcement

01:14:28.260 leader

01:14:28.680 who's going

01:14:29.760 after the search

01:14:30.480 now in the

01:14:31.800 meantime

01:14:32.060 it does appear

01:14:32.960 that they're

01:14:33.340 pursuing other

01:14:34.000 avenues

01:14:34.400 which are good

01:14:35.080 shoe leather

01:14:35.900 police work

01:14:38.200 and that leads

01:14:39.180 me to the FBI

01:14:40.200 going into these

01:14:41.180 gun shops

01:14:41.920 and asking

01:14:43.500 if they know

01:14:44.800 anybody

01:14:45.260 if anybody

01:14:45.760 on this list

01:14:46.540 of the 40 names

01:14:47.360 or the 40 pictures

01:14:48.680 has been in there

01:14:49.940 to buy

01:14:50.480 a gun

01:14:51.460 what is that

01:14:52.160 all about

01:14:52.680 Maureen

01:14:53.040 I'll start

01:14:53.300 with you on it

01:14:53.860 I think

01:14:54.640 what they're

01:14:55.440 doing is

01:14:56.200 it seems

01:14:56.900 to me

01:14:57.140 as soon

01:14:57.400 as I heard

01:14:57.840 that number

01:14:58.420 that they

01:14:59.180 probably have

01:14:59.860 about six

01:15:00.800 suspects

01:15:01.460 that they're

01:15:02.040 looking at

01:15:02.560 and the

01:15:03.460 gold standard

01:15:04.260 for like

01:15:06.120 a photo array

01:15:07.020 or for

01:15:07.840 what we call

01:15:09.180 a six pack

01:15:09.920 is to have

01:15:10.920 one defendant

01:15:12.240 or one person

01:15:13.260 we're looking

01:15:13.720 at in with

01:15:14.460 five other

01:15:15.040 innocent people

01:15:15.820 so if you

01:15:16.860 you know

01:15:17.240 divide 40 by

01:15:18.160 six you get

01:15:18.900 a little over

01:15:19.560 six so I

01:15:21.100 think they have

01:15:21.620 six people

01:15:22.220 they're looking

01:15:22.580 at maybe

01:15:23.000 seven and

01:15:24.060 they put them

01:15:24.580 in photo

01:15:25.040 arrays with

01:15:25.700 known individuals

01:15:26.540 that don't

01:15:27.100 have any

01:15:27.460 criminal

01:15:27.900 backgrounds

01:15:29.220 or others

01:15:30.180 and they're

01:15:31.100 showing them

01:15:32.140 to the gun

01:15:33.120 owners with

01:15:34.420 a whole list

01:15:35.040 of names

01:15:35.500 just to see

01:15:36.080 if anything

01:15:36.640 pops out

01:15:37.400 but it's

01:15:38.060 it's a way

01:15:38.660 to look

01:15:40.280 into everyone

01:15:41.040 without telling

01:15:42.760 them who

01:15:43.200 you're looking

01:15:43.680 at exactly

01:15:44.380 if that makes

01:15:45.000 sense

01:15:45.360 yes yes

01:15:47.120 they have to

01:15:47.740 do it this

01:15:48.180 way

01:15:48.440 Jonathan

01:15:49.480 because

01:15:50.020 they

01:15:50.740 they can't

01:15:51.780 it'll be a

01:15:52.380 bad lineup

01:15:52.980 if they don't

01:15:53.760 sure

01:15:54.000 it won't be

01:15:54.500 admissible

01:15:54.900 yeah and also

01:15:55.920 you know

01:15:56.240 we're so stuck

01:15:57.320 on talking

01:15:57.820 about DNA

01:15:58.380 that sources

01:15:59.440 and other

01:16:00.000 methods that

01:16:00.660 the FBI

01:16:01.180 and law

01:16:01.620 enforcement

01:16:01.960 in general

01:16:02.340 have

01:16:02.720 you know

01:16:03.900 when these

01:16:04.180 people do

01:16:04.620 bad things

01:16:05.440 they usually

01:16:06.320 usually and

01:16:07.100 typically run

01:16:07.800 in a bad

01:16:08.280 crowd

01:16:08.660 and people

01:16:10.280 will give

01:16:10.720 hints or

01:16:11.200 they'll talk

01:16:11.680 about or

01:16:12.080 they'll tell

01:16:12.500 in confidence

01:16:13.080 another bad

01:16:14.360 guy what

01:16:14.800 they've done

01:16:15.340 and so

01:16:16.240 sources

01:16:17.220 that

01:16:18.000 that we

01:16:19.060 have

01:16:19.460 that are

01:16:19.780 paid

01:16:20.100 sources

01:16:20.540 or they

01:16:21.020 they're

01:16:21.300 working

01:16:21.620 off a

01:16:22.060 debt

01:16:22.300 those

01:16:23.540 individuals

01:16:24.320 can

01:16:24.720 can

01:16:25.220 spring

01:16:25.860 a

01:16:26.160 an

01:16:26.740 investigation

01:16:27.140 forward

01:16:27.680 you know

01:16:28.800 very quickly

01:16:30.180 and that

01:16:30.900 could be

01:16:31.400 where some

01:16:31.900 of this

01:16:32.120 information

01:16:32.580 is coming

01:16:33.080 from

01:16:33.380 you know

01:16:34.560 and so

01:16:34.820 when you

01:16:35.220 do get

01:16:35.720 a list

01:16:36.060 of names

01:16:36.600 and you

01:16:37.620 go out

01:16:38.000 there

01:16:38.200 and you

01:16:38.500 float

01:16:38.740 these

01:16:38.960 things

01:16:39.180 it's

01:16:39.540 just

01:16:39.680 showing

01:16:39.980 me

01:16:40.240 that

01:16:40.560 just

01:16:41.420 like

01:16:41.640 Brown

01:16:41.900 University

01:16:42.460 where they

01:16:43.100 were having

01:16:43.480 these

01:16:43.740 terrible

01:16:44.240 press

01:16:44.600 conferences

01:16:45.100 and people

01:16:46.140 were like

01:16:46.560 what is

01:16:47.060 going on

01:16:47.580 there

01:16:47.700 well the

01:16:48.020 investigators

01:16:48.480 were there

01:16:48.840 just

01:16:49.160 killing it

01:16:49.800 man

01:16:49.960 they were

01:16:50.240 doing

01:16:50.440 incredible

01:16:50.920 work

01:16:51.380 and that

01:16:52.280 investigation

01:16:52.900 was

01:16:53.480 was closed

01:16:54.340 very quickly

01:16:54.980 and I

01:16:55.780 think

01:16:56.000 that's

01:16:56.500 that's

01:16:56.820 probably

01:16:57.480 what's

01:16:57.880 happening

01:16:58.120 here

01:16:58.360 that despite

01:16:59.100 the sheriff

01:16:59.680 the FBI

01:17:02.180 and the

01:17:03.120 investigators

01:17:03.900 even though

01:17:04.640 we've heard

01:17:05.440 that the

01:17:05.780 investigators

01:17:06.320 on the

01:17:07.480 case

01:17:07.780 for the

01:17:08.080 sheriff

01:17:08.360 that he

01:17:09.220 kind of

01:17:09.540 cleaned

01:17:09.780 house

01:17:10.080 and has

01:17:10.500 very

01:17:10.760 inexperienced

01:17:11.480 investigators

01:17:12.340 running

01:17:13.140 that

01:17:13.420 case

01:17:13.820 but I

01:17:14.620 still

01:17:14.900 think

01:17:15.140 that

01:17:15.300 there's

01:17:15.520 people

01:17:15.800 there

01:17:16.040 that

01:17:16.260 are

01:17:16.580 really

01:17:17.300 working

01:17:18.100 hard

01:17:18.460 what I

01:17:19.280 also

01:17:19.520 don't

01:17:19.780 see

01:17:20.020 which

01:17:20.560 when you

01:17:20.880 got to

01:17:21.120 look at

01:17:21.340 the

01:17:21.440 totality

01:17:21.880 of the

01:17:22.080 circumstances

01:17:22.600 of these

01:17:23.020 things

01:17:23.280 is the

01:17:23.940 fact that

01:17:24.460 they found

01:17:25.300 one glove

01:17:25.940 in like

01:17:26.420 15

01:17:27.160 or at

01:17:28.460 least a

01:17:28.820 dozen

01:17:29.240 gloves

01:17:30.040 that have

01:17:30.300 been

01:17:30.600 thrown

01:17:31.260 down

01:17:31.540 by

01:17:31.800 searchers

01:17:32.220 the FBI

01:17:32.520 said

01:17:32.740 they found

01:17:33.080 16

01:17:33.520 right

01:17:33.760 so gloves

01:17:34.720 that

01:17:35.200 searchers

01:17:35.700 have thrown

01:17:36.040 down

01:17:36.260 so what

01:17:36.900 that tells

01:17:37.320 me

01:17:37.440 is there's

01:17:37.720 a lack

01:17:38.140 of standard

01:17:38.580 operating

01:17:39.060 procedures

01:17:39.640 a lack

01:17:40.640 of

01:17:40.840 briefing

01:17:41.360 which

01:17:42.400 signals

01:17:42.960 a lack

01:17:43.480 of

01:17:43.620 control

01:17:44.140 by the

01:17:45.040 investigative

01:17:45.560 lead

01:17:46.200 agency

01:17:46.720 which is

01:17:47.260 the

01:17:47.400 sheriff's

01:17:47.680 department

01:17:48.040 that's a

01:17:49.760 good point

01:17:50.220 I mean

01:17:50.500 I'm hearing

01:17:50.780 the same

01:17:51.100 thing

01:17:51.360 Chad

01:17:51.640 which is

01:17:52.000 that

01:17:52.280 there

01:17:52.920 are a

01:17:53.580 bunch

01:17:53.720 of

01:17:53.840 novices

01:17:54.180 in the

01:17:54.620 sheriff's

01:17:54.960 office

01:17:55.220 with respect

01:17:55.760 to those

01:17:56.160 who are

01:17:56.400 serving

01:17:56.740 that

01:17:57.300 they're

01:17:57.480 all

01:17:57.800 maybe

01:17:58.120 two

01:17:58.360 years

01:17:58.640 under

01:17:58.820 the

01:17:58.980 job

01:17:59.360 three

01:17:59.720 years

01:18:00.000 at

01:18:00.160 most

01:18:00.500 and

01:18:00.940 so

01:18:01.100 these

01:18:01.320 are

01:18:01.480 baby

01:18:01.820 homicide

01:18:02.400 cops

01:18:02.800 and

01:18:03.700 don't

01:18:04.520 have

01:18:04.780 the

01:18:04.980 experience

01:18:05.620 when it

01:18:06.240 comes to

01:18:06.540 investigating

01:18:06.960 cases

01:18:07.340 like this

01:18:07.880 of the

01:18:08.460 ones

01:18:08.680 who

01:18:08.820 left

01:18:09.180 because

01:18:09.440 they

01:18:09.640 can't

01:18:09.880 stand

01:18:10.080 working

01:18:10.360 under

01:18:10.600 this

01:18:10.820 sheriff

01:18:11.100 some

01:18:12.080 of

01:18:12.200 that

01:18:12.320 seems

01:18:12.540 to be

01:18:12.780 manifesting

01:18:13.320 in

01:18:13.480 the

01:18:13.580 case

01:18:13.960 the

01:18:14.460 FBI

01:18:14.780 however

01:18:15.140 with

01:18:15.500 this

01:18:15.760 visiting

01:18:16.520 of the

01:18:17.220 gun

01:18:17.460 stores

01:18:18.200 thing

01:18:19.080 sounds

01:18:19.940 they sound

01:18:21.180 like

01:18:21.340 they're

01:18:21.460 on their

01:18:25.760 whether

01:18:26.100 or not

01:18:26.380 these

01:18:26.560 people

01:18:26.800 have

01:18:26.980 been

01:18:27.120 inside

01:18:27.400 the

01:18:27.560 store

01:18:27.820 and

01:18:28.320 whether

01:18:28.540 they

01:18:28.720 have

01:18:28.900 purchased

01:18:29.320 a

01:18:29.920 gun

01:18:30.160 can

01:18:31.200 I

01:18:31.360 go ahead

01:18:34.220 chat

01:18:34.460 real quick

01:18:37.560 I think

01:18:38.160 it's just

01:18:38.720 important

01:18:39.120 to know

01:18:39.540 that

01:18:39.760 obviously

01:18:40.080 in

01:18:40.220 these

01:18:40.360 gun

01:18:40.640 stores

01:18:41.060 you

01:18:42.080 go

01:18:42.420 in

01:18:42.520 to

01:18:42.600 purchase

01:18:42.860 a

01:18:43.060 firearm

01:18:43.380 you

01:18:43.560 fill out

01:18:43.840 the

01:18:43.980 ATF

01:18:44.460 form

01:18:44.740 for

01:18:45.220 ask

01:18:45.740 you

01:18:45.860 a

01:18:45.960 bunch

01:18:46.120 of

01:18:46.260 questions

01:18:46.860 so

01:18:47.740 that's

01:18:47.940 great

01:18:48.100 it's

01:18:48.260 a

01:18:48.380 great

01:18:48.600 starting

01:18:49.000 point

01:18:49.300 obviously

01:18:49.620 we

01:18:49.840 know

01:18:50.080 this

01:18:50.280 person

01:18:50.540 was

01:18:50.720 armed

01:18:51.040 we

01:18:51.200 saw

01:18:51.440 it

01:18:51.600 is

01:18:52.080 it

01:18:52.200 possible

01:18:52.540 that

01:18:52.720 they

01:18:52.860 used

01:18:53.140 some

01:18:53.340 digital

01:18:53.700 enhancement

01:18:54.140 and able

01:18:54.760 to

01:18:54.960 identify

01:18:55.480 what

01:18:55.880 kind

01:18:56.100 of

01:18:56.200 firearm

01:18:56.580 that

01:18:56.820 is

01:18:57.100 possibly

01:18:57.780 but

01:18:59.220 again

01:18:59.580 coming

01:19:00.300 from

01:19:00.720 my

01:19:01.240 side

01:19:01.560 I

01:19:01.740 also

01:19:02.000 know

01:19:02.240 that

01:19:02.520 many

01:19:02.900 times

01:19:03.340 criminals

01:19:03.860 aren't

01:19:04.940 going

01:19:05.180 to

01:19:05.360 gun

01:19:05.620 stores

01:19:06.120 and

01:19:06.940 purchasing

01:19:07.340 their

01:19:07.600 firearms

01:19:08.020 most of

01:19:08.520 them

01:19:08.600 are

01:19:08.720 purchased

01:19:09.020 off

01:19:09.340 the

01:19:09.480 streets

01:19:09.980 these

01:19:10.660 things

01:19:10.860 are

01:19:11.020 hot

01:19:11.300 anyways

01:19:11.800 not

01:19:13.160 ideal

01:19:13.500 go ahead

01:19:13.820 Maureen

01:19:14.060 I was

01:19:14.640 just

01:19:14.820 going

01:19:14.980 to

01:19:15.060 say

01:19:15.220 I'm

01:19:15.380 not

01:19:15.540 going

01:19:15.640 to

01:19:15.740 throw

01:19:15.920 the

01:19:16.120 sheriff's

01:19:16.460 department

01:19:16.820 under

01:19:17.100 the

01:19:17.260 bus

01:19:22.200 you

01:19:22.340 had

01:19:22.600 a

01:19:22.720 really

01:19:22.920 good

01:19:23.320 training

01:19:24.220 officer

01:19:24.660 or

01:19:25.280 a

01:19:25.860 really

01:19:26.140 good

01:19:26.380 detective

01:19:26.780 that

01:19:27.000 was

01:19:27.160 training

01:19:27.480 you

01:19:27.640 for

01:19:27.780 those

01:19:27.980 three

01:19:28.240 years

01:19:28.560 you're

01:19:29.060 going

01:19:29.140 to

01:19:29.200 make

01:19:29.360 really

01:19:29.600 good

01:19:29.880 solid

01:19:30.260 decisions

01:19:30.860 I

01:19:31.560 know

01:19:32.820 that

01:19:33.040 they're

01:19:33.200 pouring

01:19:33.480 their

01:19:33.660 heart

01:19:33.860 and

01:19:34.040 souls

01:19:34.300 into

01:19:34.540 this

01:19:34.760 I

01:19:34.920 can

01:19:35.080 see

01:19:35.360 them

01:19:35.560 out

01:19:35.740 there

01:19:35.900 working

01:19:36.320 they're

01:19:36.920 all

01:19:37.160 paired

01:19:37.420 up

01:19:37.680 with

01:19:37.920 FBI

01:19:38.400 agents

01:19:38.880 and

01:19:39.160 we

01:19:39.520 learn

01:19:39.780 from

01:19:39.980 each

01:19:40.180 other

01:19:40.380 in

01:19:40.540 these

01:19:40.720 instances

01:19:41.220 so

01:19:42.040 I'm

01:19:42.780 not

01:19:43.140 going

01:19:43.280 to

01:19:43.360 go

01:19:43.620 down

01:19:44.020 that

01:19:44.220 road

01:19:44.540 with

01:19:44.860 I

01:19:45.180 mean

01:19:45.400 with

01:19:45.660 you

01:19:46.220 know

01:19:46.340 just

01:19:46.540 throwing

01:19:46.800 that

01:19:46.980 whole

01:19:47.160 department

01:19:47.560 under

01:19:47.840 the

01:19:48.360 bus

01:19:48.700 because

01:19:48.960 I

01:19:49.160 don't

01:19:49.460 believe

01:19:49.700 that's

01:19:50.000 fair

01:19:50.340 and

01:19:50.920 with

01:19:51.080 regard

01:19:51.400 to

01:19:51.640 the

01:19:51.880 gloves

01:19:52.460 those

01:19:52.840 17

01:19:53.300 other

01:19:53.560 gloves

01:19:53.900 that

01:19:54.080 they

01:19:54.220 found

01:19:54.620 so

01:19:55.660 they

01:19:56.140 had

01:19:56.380 a

01:19:56.500 bunch

01:19:56.680 of

01:19:56.880 volunteers

01:19:57.440 out

01:19:57.740 there

01:19:57.900 doing

01:19:58.240 as

01:19:58.600 part

01:19:58.860 of

01:19:58.940 the

01:19:59.060 search

01:19:59.300 and

01:19:59.440 rescue

01:19:59.720 team

01:20:00.100 and

01:20:00.560 they're

01:20:00.720 going

01:20:00.800 to

01:20:00.840 have

01:20:00.960 a

01:20:01.080 different

01:20:01.420 standard

01:20:02.580 with

01:20:03.100 regard

01:20:03.460 to

01:20:03.900 evidence

01:20:04.720 and

01:20:04.900 evidence

01:20:05.180 collection

01:20:05.640 and

01:20:05.980 how

01:20:06.240 we

01:20:06.440 do

01:20:06.620 things

01:20:07.060 and

01:20:07.580 then

01:20:07.760 they

01:20:14.860 that

01:20:15.420 group

01:20:15.720 and

01:20:16.320 then

01:20:16.460 they

01:20:16.600 had

01:20:16.780 the

01:20:16.940 sworn

01:20:17.300 officers

01:20:18.000 each

01:20:18.820 of

01:20:18.960 those

01:20:19.220 groups

01:20:19.860 has

01:20:20.140 a

01:20:20.280 different

01:20:20.600 standard

01:20:21.620 for

01:20:21.860 what

01:20:22.060 they

01:20:22.200 do

01:20:22.360 they

01:20:22.500 should

01:20:22.740 be

01:20:22.920 trained

01:20:23.220 to

01:20:23.360 the

01:20:23.500 same

01:20:23.720 level

01:20:24.020 but

01:20:24.280 oftentimes

01:20:24.740 they

01:20:25.100 aren't

01:20:25.440 and

01:20:26.220 you

01:20:27.220 know

01:20:27.620 when

01:20:27.940 the

01:20:28.080 FBI

01:20:28.380 comes

01:20:28.740 in

01:20:28.900 we

01:20:29.100 always

01:20:29.460 have

01:20:29.760 a

01:20:30.200 bag

01:20:30.580 of

01:20:30.800 that

01:20:31.320 we

01:20:31.500 designate

01:20:32.000 from

01:20:32.180 the

01:20:32.320 beginning

01:20:32.620 hey

01:20:32.840 guys

01:20:33.140 this

01:20:33.300 is

01:20:33.380 where

01:20:33.520 all

01:20:33.680 our

01:20:33.840 trash

01:20:34.160 goes

01:20:34.440 so

01:20:34.840 our

01:20:35.000 Tyvex

01:20:35.460 suits

01:20:36.500 gloves

01:20:36.920 everything

01:20:37.340 like

01:20:37.600 that

01:20:37.780 goes

01:20:38.000 into

01:20:38.180 that

01:20:38.360 one

01:20:38.580 bag

01:20:38.860 but

01:20:39.300 there's

01:20:39.460 been

01:20:39.600 more

01:20:39.780 than

01:20:39.900 one

01:20:40.040 occasion

01:20:40.360 when

01:20:40.560 that

01:20:40.740 bag

01:20:41.260 has

01:20:41.640 blown

01:20:41.960 off

01:20:42.380 and

01:20:43.200 stuff's

01:20:43.760 flying

01:20:44.060 all over

01:20:44.420 the

01:20:44.540 place

01:20:44.820 and

01:20:44.940 you're

01:20:45.080 trying

01:20:45.260 to

01:20:45.440 pick

01:20:45.620 it

01:20:45.760 up

01:20:45.980 so

01:20:46.540 there

01:20:47.420 are

01:20:47.880 things

01:20:48.160 that

01:20:48.320 happen

01:20:48.680 obviously

01:20:49.280 they

01:20:49.500 should

01:20:49.660 have

01:20:49.780 all

01:20:49.940 been

01:20:50.060 picked

01:20:50.300 up

01:20:50.560 none

01:20:51.100 of

01:20:51.220 them

01:20:51.360 should

01:20:51.540 have

01:20:52.400 been

01:20:52.560 left

01:20:52.780 there

01:20:53.060 but

01:20:54.220 there

01:20:54.420 are

01:20:54.700 mitigating

01:20:55.840 circumstances

01:20:56.800 to a

01:20:57.500 certain

01:20:57.700 extent

01:20:58.160 well

01:20:59.140 that's

01:20:59.340 the

01:20:59.420 thing

01:20:59.560 is

01:20:59.680 that

01:20:59.780 we've

01:20:59.940 got

01:21:00.080 so

01:21:00.280 many

01:21:00.500 eggs

01:21:00.780 in

01:21:00.960 basket

01:21:01.400 of

01:21:01.600 these

01:21:01.760 gloves

01:21:02.220 and

01:21:02.420 the

01:21:02.660 DNA

01:21:03.220 analysis

01:21:03.740 being

01:21:04.080 done

01:21:04.320 by

01:21:04.460 the

01:21:04.620 Florida

01:21:04.860 lab

01:21:05.300 which

01:21:05.500 is

01:21:05.640 completed

01:21:06.060 but

01:21:06.720 now

01:21:06.880 it

01:21:06.980 has

01:21:07.120 to

01:21:07.200 be

01:21:07.320 uploaded

01:21:07.700 onto

01:21:08.960 CODIS

01:21:09.540 to see

01:21:09.860 if it

01:21:10.100 matches

01:21:10.360 any

01:21:10.600 of the

01:21:10.820 perps

01:21:11.080 in the

01:21:11.360 federal

01:21:11.620 database

01:21:12.260 but

01:21:12.780 they

01:21:12.920 won't

01:21:13.200 upload

01:21:13.600 it

01:21:13.780 until

01:21:14.060 they've

01:21:14.440 been

01:21:14.640 assured

01:21:14.940 that

01:21:15.100 the

01:21:15.340 quality

01:21:15.760 of

01:21:16.020 it

01:21:16.100 is

01:21:16.300 adequate

01:21:17.060 I

01:21:17.340 don't

01:21:17.480 totally

01:21:17.740 understand

01:21:18.040 what

01:21:18.160 the

01:21:18.260 FBI

01:21:18.500 is

01:21:18.620 doing

01:21:18.820 there

01:21:19.080 but

01:21:19.780 I

01:21:20.340 guess

01:21:20.500 they're

01:21:20.860 not

01:21:21.040 going

01:21:21.160 to

01:21:21.240 upload

01:21:21.540 it

01:21:21.700 until

01:21:21.960 it's

01:21:22.160 of

01:21:22.280 a

01:21:22.400 certain

01:21:22.560 quality

01:21:22.980 and

01:21:23.580 now

01:21:24.020 they're

01:21:24.300 saying

01:21:24.520 it has

01:21:24.760 to

01:21:24.900 be

01:21:25.200 shipped

01:21:25.420 back

01:21:25.720 to

01:21:25.900 Arizona

01:21:26.480 and

01:21:27.120 then

01:21:27.420 to

01:21:27.580 Quantico

01:21:28.080 all

01:21:28.440 of

01:21:28.600 this

01:21:28.760 is

01:21:28.900 like

01:21:29.160 Nancy

01:21:29.760 Guthrie

01:21:30.120 could

01:21:30.300 be

01:21:30.460 lying

01:21:30.760 dying

01:21:31.120 somewhere

01:21:31.540 I

01:21:31.760 mean

01:21:31.880 truly

01:21:32.120 like

01:21:32.380 many

01:21:33.320 of

01:21:33.460 us

01:21:33.580 think

01:21:33.760 she

01:21:33.940 may

01:21:34.080 have

01:21:34.180 already

01:21:34.480 passed

01:21:34.920 but

01:21:35.120 what

01:21:35.320 if

01:21:35.440 she

01:21:35.560 hasn't

01:21:35.960 what

01:21:36.140 if

01:21:36.260 she

01:21:36.380 is

01:21:36.520 sitting

01:21:36.720 there

01:21:36.900 clinging

01:21:37.180 to

01:21:37.380 life

01:21:37.700 and

01:21:38.300 really

01:21:38.540 can't

01:21:38.860 go

01:21:38.980 many

01:21:39.200 more

01:21:39.380 days

01:21:39.680 without

01:21:39.940 her

01:21:40.240 heart

01:21:40.500 medication

01:21:51.700 we

01:21:51.800 do

01:21:51.980 have

01:21:52.160 some

01:21:52.380 promising

01:21:52.840 possibilities

01:21:54.620 on

01:21:55.620 the

01:21:55.800 backpack

01:21:56.200 and

01:21:57.160 Walmart

01:21:57.700 okay

01:21:58.320 the

01:21:58.640 the

01:21:59.060 New York

01:21:59.480 Post

01:21:59.940 is

01:22:00.200 reporting

01:22:00.560 that

01:22:00.960 detectives

01:22:01.980 have

01:22:02.680 been

01:22:02.840 handed

01:22:03.140 their

01:22:03.400 quote

01:22:03.640 most

01:22:03.880 promising

01:22:04.300 lead

01:22:04.600 yet

01:22:04.880 according

01:22:05.440 to

01:22:05.640 a

01:22:05.800 former

01:22:06.040 top

01:22:06.320 cop

01:22:06.620 who

01:22:07.020 they

01:22:07.140 interviewed

01:22:07.440 who

01:22:07.620 said

01:22:07.940 that

01:22:08.380 Walmart

01:22:08.720 has

01:22:08.960 now

01:22:09.140 handed

01:22:09.380 over

01:22:09.580 the

01:22:09.740 purchase

01:22:10.020 records

01:22:10.420 for

01:22:11.160 backpacks

01:22:12.000 that

01:22:12.220 match

01:22:12.540 the

01:22:12.720 one

01:22:13.000 used

01:22:13.720 by

01:22:14.120 the

01:22:14.600 perp

01:22:14.940 the

01:22:15.180 abductor

01:22:15.680 it's

01:22:16.140 a

01:22:16.240 black

01:22:16.540 Ozark

01:22:17.120 trail

01:22:17.620 hiker

01:22:18.060 they're

01:22:18.900 99%

01:22:20.000 sure

01:22:21.700 that bag

01:22:22.160 is sold

01:22:22.700 exclusively

01:22:23.640 at

01:22:24.260 Walmart

01:22:24.620 so

01:22:25.400 that's

01:22:25.720 great

01:22:26.120 now

01:22:26.840 they do

01:22:27.300 point out

01:22:27.620 look

01:22:27.740 it doesn't

01:22:28.200 mean

01:22:28.460 couldn't

01:22:29.440 have wound

01:22:29.720 up at

01:22:30.040 a

01:22:30.200 Goodwill

01:22:30.800 or a

01:22:31.420 thrift

01:22:31.700 store

01:22:32.200 or a

01:22:32.660 flea

01:22:32.960 market

01:22:33.320 or been

01:22:34.180 gifted

01:22:34.800 by somebody

01:22:36.000 to somebody

01:22:36.520 else

01:22:36.800 but

01:22:37.060 let's

01:22:38.040 face it

01:22:38.320 the

01:22:38.460 overwhelming

01:22:38.880 odds

01:22:39.560 are that

01:22:39.840 this

01:22:40.020 guy

01:22:40.180 bought

01:22:40.460 it

01:22:40.660 and

01:22:41.520 he

01:22:41.620 bought

01:22:41.820 it

01:22:41.920 at

01:22:42.020 a

01:22:42.140 Walmart

01:22:42.400 and

01:22:42.720 so

01:22:43.000 they're

01:22:43.400 going

01:22:43.980 back

01:22:44.300 now

01:22:44.640 and

01:22:44.860 trying

01:22:45.100 to

01:22:45.260 figure

01:22:45.460 out

01:22:45.840 thanks

01:22:47.040 to

01:22:47.220 like

01:22:47.400 the

01:22:47.580 SKU

01:22:47.840 numbers

01:22:48.220 you know

01:22:51.700 who bought

01:22:52.380 these

01:22:52.860 backpacks

01:22:53.560 when

01:22:54.220 where

01:22:55.040 and

01:22:55.880 trying

01:22:56.340 to find

01:22:56.720 videotape

01:22:57.400 that'll

01:22:57.640 match

01:22:57.860 the

01:22:58.020 transaction

01:22:58.540 and

01:22:58.880 any

01:22:59.080 other

01:22:59.260 identifying

01:22:59.800 information

01:23:00.260 this

01:23:00.600 seems

01:23:01.160 to me

01:23:01.400 like

01:23:01.600 good

01:23:02.060 old

01:23:02.200 fashioned

01:23:02.420 police

01:23:02.720 work

01:23:02.980 very

01:23:03.700 good

01:23:03.920 one

01:23:04.280 thing

01:23:04.480 I

01:23:04.600 can

01:23:04.740 say

01:23:04.940 about

01:23:05.180 Walmart

01:23:05.540 is

01:23:05.780 they

01:23:05.900 have

01:23:06.100 phenomenal

01:23:06.720 technology

01:23:07.300 and

01:23:07.480 cameras

01:23:07.800 in

01:23:07.980 there

01:23:08.200 every

01:23:09.160 register

01:23:09.740 has

01:23:10.180 a

01:23:10.340 camera

01:23:10.620 in

01:23:10.780 it

01:23:10.900 we

01:23:11.300 know

01:23:11.480 we

01:23:11.680 have

01:23:11.940 them

01:23:12.060 at

01:23:12.200 the

01:23:12.360 entrances

01:23:12.800 the

01:23:13.080 parking

01:23:13.440 lots

01:23:13.840 so

01:23:14.680 what

01:23:15.880 will

01:23:16.020 be

01:23:16.180 really

01:23:16.520 interesting

01:23:16.920 is

01:23:17.160 I

01:23:21.700 ski

01:23:22.000 mask

01:23:22.340 is

01:23:22.760 also

01:23:23.040 sold

01:23:23.520 at

01:23:24.300 Walmart

01:23:24.700 so

01:23:25.540 what

01:23:26.920 a

01:23:27.140 golden

01:23:27.500 egg

01:23:28.920 this

01:23:29.220 would

01:23:29.360 be

01:23:29.600 Megan

01:23:29.920 if

01:23:30.460 all

01:23:30.620 of a

01:23:30.840 sudden

01:23:31.120 you

01:23:31.580 see

01:23:31.760 the

01:23:31.880 guy

01:23:32.040 with

01:23:32.160 the

01:23:32.260 old

01:23:32.420 soul

01:23:32.720 patch

01:23:33.220 and

01:23:33.880 the

01:23:34.260 backpack

01:23:34.640 and

01:23:34.960 the

01:23:35.080 ski

01:23:35.280 mask

01:23:35.720 at

01:23:36.500 that

01:23:36.780 point

01:23:37.080 you

01:23:37.240 better

01:23:37.420 start

01:23:37.740 stretching

01:23:38.240 and

01:23:38.460 get

01:23:38.600 ready

01:23:38.940 because

01:23:39.800 things

01:23:41.000 are

01:23:41.140 going

01:23:41.240 to

01:23:41.300 start

01:23:41.440 moving

01:23:41.680 really

01:23:42.020 quickly

01:23:42.440 but

01:23:43.040 it's

01:23:43.740 almost

01:23:43.960 like

01:23:44.200 a

01:23:44.340 tale

01:23:44.520 as

01:23:44.660 old

01:23:44.800 as

01:23:44.920 times

01:23:45.180 how

01:23:45.360 many

01:23:45.520 dateline

01:23:46.000 episodes

01:23:46.520 or

01:23:46.800 crime

01:23:47.220 shows

01:23:47.540 have

01:23:51.700 the

01:23:51.860 Walmart

01:23:52.200 the

01:23:52.460 Ace

01:23:52.680 Hardware

01:23:53.080 and

01:23:53.200 you

01:23:53.300 see

01:23:53.500 them

01:23:53.680 buying

01:23:54.040 the

01:23:54.320 type

01:23:54.720 of

01:23:54.840 equipment

01:23:55.140 to

01:23:55.360 dispose

01:23:55.720 of

01:23:55.880 a

01:23:55.980 body

01:23:56.240 or

01:23:56.400 to

01:23:56.540 break

01:23:56.840 in

01:23:57.020 or

01:23:57.140 whatever

01:23:57.480 tape

01:23:57.960 exactly

01:23:58.560 it's

01:23:58.940 a

01:23:59.100 shovel

01:23:59.440 it's

01:23:59.920 duct

01:24:00.200 tape

01:24:00.560 it's

01:24:00.860 a

01:24:01.000 tarp

01:24:01.320 it's

01:24:01.400 a

01:24:01.480 murder

01:24:01.640 I

01:24:01.960 mean

01:24:02.120 like

01:24:02.380 every

01:24:02.740 other

01:24:02.940 dateline

01:24:03.360 we're

01:24:03.620 still

01:24:03.820 dealing

01:24:04.140 with

01:24:04.320 this

01:24:04.720 is

01:24:06.120 still

01:24:06.300 a

01:24:06.440 criminal

01:24:06.760 right

01:24:07.580 criminals

01:24:07.960 aren't

01:24:08.280 smart

01:24:08.580 they do

01:24:09.020 screw

01:24:09.300 up

01:24:09.480 and I

01:24:09.720 get

01:24:09.880 it

01:24:10.020 I'm

01:24:10.240 sitting

01:24:10.420 there

01:24:10.540 going

01:24:10.720 well

01:24:10.860 this

01:24:21.700 he

01:24:22.380 didn't

01:24:23.200 think

01:24:23.380 he

01:24:23.480 was

01:24:23.580 going

01:24:23.720 to

01:24:23.760 get

01:24:23.900 caught

01:24:24.120 on

01:24:24.300 camera

01:24:24.680 that

01:24:25.060 night

01:24:25.340 at

01:24:25.640 Nancy

01:24:25.940 Guthrie's

01:24:26.400 he

01:24:26.560 did

01:24:26.720 he

01:24:26.880 did

01:24:27.040 not

01:24:27.240 think

01:24:27.460 so

01:24:27.720 you

01:24:28.120 know

01:24:28.180 he

01:24:28.300 wore

01:24:28.520 his

01:24:28.620 little

01:24:28.740 ski

01:24:28.980 mask

01:24:29.280 to

01:24:29.460 protect

01:24:29.680 his

01:24:29.860 identity

01:24:30.220 then

01:24:30.760 he

01:24:30.880 thought

01:24:31.060 he

01:24:31.180 was

01:24:31.420 hiding

01:24:32.480 or

01:24:32.720 covering

01:24:33.080 up

01:24:33.280 that

01:24:33.440 camera

01:24:33.740 and

01:24:33.860 then

01:24:33.960 eventually

01:24:34.280 took

01:24:34.620 it

01:24:34.760 down

01:24:35.160 I'm

01:24:35.660 sure

01:24:35.760 he

01:24:35.900 was

01:24:36.060 shocked

01:24:36.520 to

01:24:36.840 learn

01:24:37.080 that

01:24:37.240 there

01:24:37.340 were

01:24:37.460 still

01:24:37.660 images

01:24:38.020 of

01:24:38.300 him

01:24:38.500 so

01:24:39.020 what

01:24:39.240 are

01:24:39.340 the

01:24:39.480 odds

01:24:39.740 when

01:24:39.940 he

01:24:40.060 bought

01:24:40.360 this

01:24:40.580 backpack

01:24:41.100 we're

01:24:41.900 told

01:24:42.240 if

01:24:42.680 it's

01:24:42.820 the

01:24:43.440 backpack

01:24:43.720 they

01:24:43.940 think

01:24:44.200 it's

01:24:44.380 only

01:24:44.580 available

01:24:44.940 at

01:24:45.140 Walmart

01:24:45.380 what

01:24:45.900 are

01:24:45.980 the

01:24:46.120 odds

01:24:46.380 this

01:24:46.600 guy

01:24:46.940 was

01:24:47.540 there

01:24:47.780 buying

01:24:48.220 it

01:24:48.420 thinking

01:24:48.760 I've

01:24:49.220 got to

01:24:49.480 hide

01:24:49.680 my

01:24:49.880 identity

01:24:50.220 here

01:24:50.720 they're

01:24:51.240 going

01:24:51.440 to

01:24:51.600 figure

01:24:51.780 out

01:24:51.980 I

01:24:52.100 had

01:24:52.320 this

01:24:52.500 backpack

01:24:52.860 meanwhile

01:24:53.260 he

01:24:53.440 thought

01:24:53.600 he

01:24:53.720 wouldn't

01:24:53.900 even

01:24:54.060 be

01:24:54.200 on

01:24:54.380 camera

01:24:54.800 they're

01:24:55.300 going

01:24:55.360 to

01:24:55.440 figure

01:24:55.600 out

01:24:55.740 I

01:24:55.820 have

01:24:55.940 the

01:24:56.040 backpack

01:24:56.320 though

01:24:56.660 and

01:24:56.800 I

01:24:56.880 got

01:24:56.980 to

01:24:57.060 hide

01:24:57.260 the

01:24:57.500 trip

01:24:57.840 to

01:24:58.020 Walmart

01:24:58.320 maybe

01:24:59.180 I'm

01:25:00.580 wrong

01:25:00.880 but

01:25:01.040 even

01:25:01.280 the

01:25:01.460 DC

01:25:01.760 pipe

01:25:02.200 bomber

01:25:02.580 accused

01:25:03.280 who

01:25:03.880 seemed

01:25:04.260 like

01:25:04.520 autistic

01:25:05.000 and yet

01:25:05.840 very

01:25:06.240 smart

01:25:06.660 in some

01:25:07.140 ways

01:25:07.420 had

01:25:07.620 bought

01:25:07.820 pieces

01:25:08.300 of

01:25:08.540 that

01:25:08.700 bomb

01:25:09.040 in

01:25:09.600 this

01:25:09.940 radio

01:25:10.320 shack

01:25:10.640 and

01:25:10.820 that

01:25:11.120 store

01:25:11.420 and

01:25:11.580 this

01:25:11.820 store

01:25:12.080 and

01:25:12.220 the

01:25:12.320 other

01:25:12.500 store

01:25:12.740 and

01:25:12.880 waited

01:25:13.100 years

01:25:13.700 between

01:25:14.320 the

01:25:14.500 purchases

01:25:14.880 to

01:25:15.280 make

01:25:15.460 it

01:25:15.560 look

01:25:15.760 less

01:25:16.040 suspicious

01:25:16.480 but

01:25:17.280 they

01:25:17.460 pieced

01:25:17.800 it

01:25:17.920 all

01:25:18.080 together

01:25:18.500 what

01:25:19.100 are

01:25:19.200 the

01:25:19.300 odds

01:25:19.520 that

01:25:19.700 this

01:25:19.900 guy

01:25:20.220 Mr.

01:25:20.860 I'm

01:25:21.180 going

01:25:21.260 to

01:25:21.340 shove

01:25:21.500 some

01:25:27.840 he's

01:25:28.160 not

01:25:28.320 identifiable

01:25:28.960 but

01:25:29.760 they're

01:25:30.820 thinking

01:25:31.220 it's

01:25:31.700 hard

01:25:31.920 to

01:25:32.240 understand

01:25:33.100 these

01:25:33.420 criminals

01:25:33.900 in the

01:25:34.180 way

01:25:34.320 that

01:25:34.460 they

01:25:34.600 think

01:25:34.880 I

01:25:35.020 mean

01:25:35.180 one

01:25:35.740 thing

01:25:35.960 is

01:25:36.240 they're

01:25:36.500 bold

01:25:36.800 enough

01:25:37.200 and

01:25:37.500 comfortable

01:25:38.080 enough

01:25:38.540 with

01:25:39.140 walking

01:25:39.540 onto

01:25:39.800 somebody's

01:25:40.340 porch

01:25:40.680 at

01:25:40.880 2am

01:25:41.520 and

01:25:42.600 then

01:25:42.860 going

01:25:43.660 in

01:25:44.000 breaking

01:25:44.300 in

01:25:44.660 and

01:25:44.880 staying

01:25:45.220 in

01:25:45.420 there

01:25:45.600 for

01:25:45.880 what

01:25:46.340 we

01:25:46.560 know

01:25:46.980 at

01:25:47.180 least

01:25:47.360 41

01:25:47.840 minutes

01:25:48.160 that's

01:25:48.900 the

01:25:49.080 comfort

01:25:49.460 zone

01:25:49.780 that

01:25:49.960 they

01:25:50.100 work

01:25:50.420 in

01:25:50.560 which

01:25:50.760 is

01:25:50.980 you

01:25:51.400 know

01:25:51.520 it

01:25:51.660 can

01:25:51.760 be

01:25:51.880 a

01:25:52.060 psychopathic

01:25:52.880 type

01:25:53.180 of

01:25:53.360 where

01:25:53.740 they

01:25:53.940 don't

01:25:54.380 have

01:25:54.900 a

01:25:55.460 conscience

01:25:55.900 like

01:25:56.240 we

01:25:56.800 would

01:25:57.040 typically

01:25:57.540 have

01:25:58.360 so

01:25:58.960 they

01:25:59.120 don't

01:25:59.280 feel

01:25:59.460 the

01:25:59.620 emotions

01:26:00.000 like

01:26:00.260 we

01:26:00.420 feel

01:26:00.580 so

01:26:00.760 they

01:26:00.900 can

01:26:01.020 go

01:26:01.180 in

01:26:01.340 and

01:26:01.440 do

01:26:01.560 these

01:26:01.780 things

01:26:02.000 but

01:26:02.620 it

01:26:02.760 doesn't

01:26:03.100 mean

01:26:03.340 that

01:26:03.540 they're

01:26:03.720 good

01:26:04.020 at

01:26:04.140 what

01:26:04.300 they

01:26:04.460 do

01:26:04.760 and

01:26:05.080 so

01:26:05.480 what

01:26:05.680 we

01:26:05.880 typically

01:26:06.480 see

01:26:06.980 and

01:26:07.320 again

01:26:07.620 you

01:26:08.340 know

01:26:08.520 yeah

01:26:08.840 I've

01:26:09.000 been

01:26:09.080 in

01:26:09.120 the

01:26:09.220 FBI

01:26:09.460 and

01:26:09.600 done

01:26:09.720 all

01:26:09.840 the

01:26:09.920 other

01:26:10.100 things

01:26:10.280 but

01:26:10.500 watching

01:26:11.240 48

01:26:11.720 hours

01:26:12.140 binge

01:26:12.500 watching

01:26:12.860 that

01:26:13.100 for

01:26:13.300 years

01:26:13.640 and

01:26:13.820 years

01:26:14.120 what

01:26:14.700 you're

01:26:14.980 going

01:26:15.120 to

01:26:15.260 see

01:26:15.720 are

01:26:16.460 statistics

01:26:17.220 and

01:26:17.900 behaviors

01:26:18.600 and

01:26:19.420 things

01:26:19.700 that

01:26:19.840 come

01:26:20.000 out

01:26:20.200 with

01:26:20.340 these

01:26:20.500 people

01:26:20.820 and

01:26:21.480 they

01:26:21.660 do

01:26:22.080 things

01:26:23.640 because

01:26:24.080 they

01:26:24.440 don't

01:26:25.100 have

01:26:25.280 the

01:26:25.440 conscience

01:26:25.780 and

01:26:26.020 they're

01:26:26.120 not

01:26:26.320 scared

01:26:26.740 but

01:26:27.240 they

01:26:27.420 make

01:26:27.680 these

01:26:27.920 gigantic

01:26:28.500 mistakes

01:26:29.000 or

01:26:29.280 micro

01:26:29.740 mistakes

01:26:30.060 that

01:26:30.760 really

01:26:31.400 giant

01:26:32.040 investigators

01:26:32.720 are able

01:26:33.140 to go

01:26:33.420 out

01:26:33.540 and find

01:26:33.940 so

01:26:34.680 I

01:26:35.380 think

01:26:35.920 that

01:26:36.240 diligent

01:26:36.820 investigation

01:26:37.540 and

01:26:38.500 agencies

01:26:39.880 that

01:26:40.500 do

01:26:41.020 their

01:26:41.920 work

01:26:42.460 fast

01:26:44.660 is

01:26:44.940 smooth

01:26:45.580 smooth

01:26:45.860 is

01:26:46.040 slow

01:26:46.320 and

01:26:46.780 when

01:26:46.880 they

01:26:47.020 do

01:26:47.320 that

01:26:47.780 and

01:26:48.060 they

01:26:48.220 really

01:26:48.540 take

01:26:48.860 in

01:26:48.980 all

01:26:49.200 things

01:26:49.460 into

01:26:49.680 account

01:26:50.060 you

01:26:50.940 will

01:26:51.180 see

01:26:51.440 these

01:26:51.780 mistakes

01:26:52.780 that

01:26:52.980 these

01:26:53.120 criminals

01:26:53.400 make

01:26:53.700 and

01:26:53.880 it's

01:26:54.580 profound

01:26:55.440 we

01:26:55.740 mistake

01:26:56.340 though

01:26:56.660 we say

01:26:57.320 all the

01:26:57.600 time

01:26:57.840 that

01:26:58.040 this

01:26:58.380 was

01:26:58.660 an

01:26:58.940 advanced

01:27:01.920 or

01:27:02.260 that

01:27:02.740 this

01:27:02.960 person

01:27:03.220 had

01:27:03.780 some

01:27:04.000 type

01:27:04.200 of

01:27:04.320 expertise

01:27:04.800 in

01:27:05.120 this

01:27:05.280 as

01:27:06.180 we

01:27:06.380 see

01:27:06.640 with

01:27:06.820 that

01:27:06.980 guy

01:27:07.220 his

01:27:07.480 expertise

01:27:07.960 was

01:27:08.360 walking

01:27:08.780 up

01:27:09.120 covering

01:27:10.320 himself

01:27:10.740 completely

01:27:11.220 up

01:27:11.560 and

01:27:12.940 walking

01:27:13.420 into

01:27:13.660 a

01:27:13.780 home

01:27:14.020 but

01:27:14.680 I'm

01:27:14.860 sure

01:27:15.040 he

01:27:15.180 didn't

01:27:15.380 think

01:27:15.760 that

01:27:16.500 when

01:27:16.740 he

01:27:16.900 dropped

01:27:17.180 that

01:27:17.420 glove

01:27:17.860 a

01:27:18.800 mile

01:27:19.100 or

01:27:19.260 more

01:27:19.440 away

01:27:19.700 from

01:27:19.880 the

01:27:20.000 home

01:27:20.320 that

01:27:20.860 that

01:27:21.060 was

01:27:21.220 going

01:27:21.380 to

01:27:21.440 be

01:27:21.580 found

01:27:21.860 by

01:27:22.040 investigators

01:27:22.600 I'm

01:27:22.880 positive

01:27:23.460 that

01:27:23.700 he

01:27:23.840 didn't

01:27:24.020 think

01:27:24.340 that

01:27:24.440 if

01:27:24.460 that's

01:27:24.760 his

01:27:25.040 yeah

01:27:25.400 yeah

01:27:25.420 if

01:27:26.180 that

01:27:26.380 says

01:27:26.660 we

01:27:26.860 don't

01:27:27.180 know

01:27:27.400 one

01:27:27.480 caveat

01:27:28.520 to

01:27:28.800 that

01:27:28.960 bag

01:27:29.280 I

01:27:29.400 will

01:27:29.540 say

01:27:29.880 and

01:27:30.380 to

01:27:30.520 Walmart

01:27:30.820 is

01:27:31.180 that

01:27:31.440 they

01:27:32.060 do

01:27:32.260 live

01:27:32.480 very

01:27:32.640 close

01:27:32.900 to

01:27:33.020 the

01:27:33.080 border

01:27:33.300 and

01:27:33.740 there

01:27:34.040 are

01:27:34.220 Walmarts

01:27:34.700 in

01:27:34.960 Mexico

01:27:35.320 so

01:27:35.880 he

01:27:36.440 could

01:27:36.680 have

01:27:36.800 gotten

01:27:36.980 that

01:27:37.120 bag

01:27:37.360 in

01:27:37.520 Mexico

01:27:37.840 and

01:27:38.140 if

01:27:38.280 that's

01:27:38.560 the

01:27:38.680 case

01:27:38.980 then

01:27:39.280 it

01:27:39.740 throws

01:27:39.980 a

01:27:40.140 whole

01:27:40.300 other

01:27:40.640 problem

01:27:42.720 into

01:27:43.020 the

01:27:43.220 end

01:27:43.400 of

01:27:43.500 the

01:27:43.580 case

01:27:43.840 and

01:27:44.340 we're

01:27:44.760 also

01:27:45.000 told

01:27:45.260 that

01:27:45.380 the

01:27:45.520 Tucson

01:27:45.960 Walmart

01:27:46.520 does

01:27:46.860 not

01:27:47.220 have

01:27:47.500 that

01:27:47.720 ski

01:27:47.980 mask

01:27:48.260 they

01:27:48.420 don't

01:27:48.580 care

01:27:48.820 they

01:27:49.040 don't

01:27:49.220 keep

01:27:49.440 them

01:27:49.560 in

01:27:49.740 stock

01:27:50.140 and

01:27:50.680 so

01:27:50.840 that

01:27:51.000 would

01:27:51.120 have

01:27:51.280 to

01:27:51.380 be

01:27:51.480 an

01:27:51.600 online

01:27:52.120 purchase

01:27:52.580 if

01:27:52.960 he

01:27:53.080 got

01:27:53.240 that

01:27:53.400 at

01:27:53.540 Walmart

01:27:53.800 I

01:27:54.160 mean

01:27:54.260 that

01:27:54.420 one

01:27:54.540 could

01:27:54.700 have

01:27:54.800 come

01:27:54.920 from

01:27:55.080 Amazon

01:27:55.480 etc

01:27:55.900 so

01:27:56.500 that

01:27:56.600 one

01:27:56.720 may

01:27:56.880 be

01:27:56.980 a

01:27:57.120 little

01:27:57.240 tougher

01:27:57.600 to

01:27:58.100 track

01:27:58.380 Maureen

01:27:58.840 can I

01:27:59.080 ask

01:27:59.280 you

01:27:59.380 yesterday

01:27:59.780 I

01:28:00.120 did

01:28:00.600 the

01:28:00.820 show

01:28:01.540 without

01:28:01.800 you

01:28:02.020 guys

01:28:02.340 and

01:28:02.740 the

01:28:03.260 breaking

01:28:03.560 news

01:28:03.800 yesterday

01:28:04.100 morning

01:28:04.500 was

01:28:05.040 that

01:28:05.220 a

01:28:05.360 local

01:28:05.620 reporter

01:28:06.120 in

01:28:06.340 Tucson

01:28:06.640 was

01:28:07.180 claiming

01:28:07.860 based

01:28:09.040 on

01:28:09.260 an

01:28:09.820 inside

01:28:10.880 source

01:28:11.360 she

01:28:11.560 didn't

01:28:11.740 describe

01:28:12.120 it

01:28:12.240 as

01:28:12.420 law

01:28:12.660 enforcement

01:28:13.120 etc

01:28:13.480 that

01:28:14.180 this

01:28:14.700 whole

01:28:14.900 case

01:28:15.200 has

01:28:15.380 moved

01:28:15.600 closer

01:28:16.040 to

01:28:16.420 believing

01:28:17.280 that

01:28:17.980 a

01:28:18.280 Nancy

01:28:18.700 may

01:28:19.020 be

01:28:19.160 alive

01:28:19.780 and

01:28:20.080 b

01:28:20.440 that

01:28:21.100 this

01:28:21.320 was

01:28:21.480 a

01:28:21.760 burglary

01:28:22.360 gone

01:28:22.900 bad

01:28:23.480 now

01:28:24.100 no

01:28:24.320 sooner

01:28:24.580 did

01:28:24.820 she

01:28:25.040 take

01:28:25.320 to

01:28:25.460 the

01:28:25.580 airwaves

01:28:25.980 and

01:28:26.140 report

01:28:26.480 that

01:28:26.820 than

01:28:27.600 both

01:28:28.480 of

01:28:28.600 the

01:28:28.700 Fox

01:28:28.920 News

01:28:29.100 reporters

01:28:29.440 on

01:28:29.700 this

01:28:30.040 citing

01:28:30.660 their

01:28:31.060 federal

01:28:31.380 sources

01:28:31.760 said

01:28:32.120 getting

01:28:33.040 serious

01:28:33.400 pushback

01:28:33.880 on

01:28:34.060 that

01:28:36.120 they're

01:28:36.400 not

01:28:36.560 saying

01:28:36.780 Nancy

01:28:37.060 is

01:28:37.220 dead

01:28:37.460 they're

01:28:37.640 just

01:28:37.820 saying

01:28:38.100 don't

01:28:38.680 sign

01:28:38.920 me

01:28:39.100 up

01:28:39.280 for

01:28:39.400 we

01:28:39.580 believe

01:28:39.860 she's

01:28:40.280 you know

01:28:40.660 we strongly

01:28:41.000 believe

01:28:41.280 she's

01:28:41.500 still

01:28:41.680 alive

01:28:42.120 and

01:28:43.080 the

01:28:43.760 burglary

01:28:44.180 thing

01:28:44.400 but

01:28:44.560 she's

01:28:44.820 standing

01:28:45.020 by

01:28:45.220 her

01:28:45.380 sources

01:28:45.700 and

01:28:45.900 she's

01:28:46.160 she's

01:28:46.500 had

01:28:46.700 good

01:28:46.900 reporting

01:28:47.300 thus

01:28:47.620 far

01:28:48.000 do

01:28:48.620 you

01:28:48.800 believe

01:28:49.260 that

01:28:49.660 that

01:28:50.020 this

01:28:50.680 was

01:28:50.860 plausibly

01:28:51.520 a

01:28:51.840 burglary

01:28:52.440 gone

01:28:53.060 bad

01:28:53.440 no

01:28:54.040 I

01:28:54.760 know

01:28:56.020 I

01:28:56.240 don't

01:28:56.620 and

01:28:56.980 I

01:28:57.220 don't

01:28:57.580 know

01:28:57.820 of

01:28:58.000 many

01:28:58.220 burglars

01:28:58.860 that

01:28:59.540 go

01:28:59.820 into

01:29:00.200 a

01:29:00.380 house

01:29:00.760 don't

01:29:01.620 take

01:29:01.840 anything

01:29:02.260 of

01:29:02.600 value

01:29:03.020 other

01:29:03.400 than

01:29:03.760 a

01:29:04.940 female

01:29:05.260 victim

01:29:05.640 who's

01:29:06.340 practically

01:29:07.260 immobile

01:29:07.780 so no

01:29:08.740 I don't

01:29:09.160 think

01:29:09.380 that's

01:29:09.900 I

01:29:10.300 I

01:29:10.600 wonder

01:29:12.320 who her

01:29:12.780 source

01:29:13.340 is

01:29:13.780 and

01:29:14.480 what

01:29:14.900 they

01:29:15.100 heard

01:29:15.380 that

01:29:15.560 they

01:29:15.720 misunderstood

01:29:16.100 because

01:29:16.680 it

01:29:16.880 just

01:29:17.060 doesn't

01:29:17.500 seem

01:29:17.860 to

01:29:17.980 make

01:29:18.140 any

01:29:18.420 sense

01:29:18.680 to

01:29:18.840 me

01:29:19.100 at

01:29:19.640 all

01:29:19.820 I

01:29:21.640 wouldn't

01:29:22.120 rule

01:29:22.980 it

01:29:23.060 out

01:29:23.280 though

01:29:23.540 I

01:29:24.340 wouldn't

01:29:24.780 rule

01:29:25.000 it

01:29:25.140 out

01:29:25.360 and

01:29:25.580 I

01:29:25.780 hope

01:29:25.920 that

01:29:26.060 they

01:29:26.180 don't

01:29:26.380 why

01:29:26.520 not

01:29:26.860 because

01:29:27.180 the

01:29:27.820 reason

01:29:28.280 I

01:29:28.500 rule

01:29:28.920 it

01:29:29.040 out

01:29:29.160 is

01:29:29.260 because

01:29:29.540 he

01:29:30.280 didn't

01:29:30.540 take

01:29:30.800 anything

01:29:31.080 other

01:29:31.300 than

01:29:31.540 Nancy

01:29:31.920 that

01:29:32.060 we

01:29:32.180 know

01:29:32.380 of

01:29:32.620 if

01:29:32.820 you're

01:29:32.940 going

01:29:33.020 to

01:29:33.140 steal

01:29:33.560 and

01:29:33.960 well

01:29:34.720 yes

01:29:35.040 but

01:29:35.200 I

01:29:35.300 mean

01:29:35.400 I

01:29:35.560 feel

01:29:35.720 like

01:29:35.840 the

01:29:35.960 sheriff

01:29:36.160 would

01:29:36.340 have

01:29:36.420 told

01:29:36.640 us

01:29:36.820 if

01:29:37.000 there

01:29:37.240 we

01:29:37.420 have

01:29:37.540 reason

01:29:37.760 to

01:29:37.860 believe

01:29:38.020 there

01:29:38.140 was

01:29:38.260 some

01:29:38.420 burglary

01:29:38.820 there

01:29:39.100 was

01:29:39.220 a

01:29:39.320 burglary

01:29:39.620 aspect

01:29:39.940 of

01:29:40.180 it

01:29:40.240 I

01:29:40.340 feel

01:29:40.500 like

01:29:40.640 you

01:29:40.740 break

01:29:44.220 in

01:29:44.440 there

01:29:44.640 you're

01:29:44.840 going

01:29:44.900 to

01:29:45.000 steal

01:29:45.920 something

01:29:46.240 maybe

01:29:46.440 you

01:29:46.580 bump

01:29:46.800 into

01:29:46.920 the

01:29:47.060 homeowner

01:29:47.420 maybe

01:29:47.600 she

01:29:47.780 got up

01:29:48.140 for

01:29:48.260 a

01:29:48.380 cup

01:29:48.520 of

01:29:48.620 tea

01:29:48.740 in

01:29:48.840 the

01:29:48.920 night

01:29:49.300 because

01:29:49.440 she

01:29:49.540 couldn't

01:29:49.720 sleep

01:29:50.020 and

01:29:50.560 you

01:29:50.900 decide

01:29:51.300 you're

01:29:51.460 going

01:29:51.540 to

01:29:51.620 take

01:29:51.820 her

01:29:51.900 because

01:29:52.040 she

01:29:52.140 saw

01:29:52.300 your

01:29:52.440 face

01:29:52.700 or

01:29:52.820 what

01:29:52.980 have

01:29:53.260 you

01:29:53.420 you

01:29:53.760 aren't

01:29:54.280 you

01:29:54.380 at

01:29:54.500 least

01:29:54.660 going

01:29:54.820 to

01:29:54.880 take

01:29:55.060 your

01:29:55.200 loot

01:29:55.500 too

01:29:55.820 you're

01:29:56.140 going

01:30:26.140 I

01:30:26.360 order

01:30:26.700 something

01:30:26.960 online

01:30:27.420 like

01:30:27.620 a

01:30:27.740 drone

01:30:27.980 or

01:30:28.120 something

01:30:28.280 I

01:30:28.380 get

01:30:28.480 a

01:30:28.600 backpack

01:30:28.880 with

01:30:29.240 it

01:30:29.340 and

01:30:29.440 it's

01:30:29.600 cheap

01:30:29.960 and

01:30:30.180 that

01:30:31.140 guy

01:30:31.320 could

01:30:31.480 have

01:30:31.560 had

01:30:31.700 20

01:30:32.020 bags

01:30:32.380 stuck

01:30:32.780 inside

01:30:33.140 that

01:30:33.400 backpack

01:30:33.860 that

01:30:34.160 he

01:30:34.240 has

01:30:34.500 so

01:30:35.100 we

01:30:35.440 don't

01:30:35.820 know

01:30:36.220 what

01:30:36.700 his

01:30:36.960 intent

01:30:37.320 was

01:30:37.720 so

01:30:37.940 that's

01:30:38.200 why

01:30:38.360 I

01:30:38.480 just

01:30:38.640 say

01:30:38.920 I

01:30:39.600 don't

01:30:39.880 rule

01:30:40.100 these

01:30:40.300 things

01:30:40.480 out

01:30:40.600 just

01:30:40.760 like

01:30:40.960 I

01:30:41.080 wouldn't

01:30:41.280 rule

01:30:41.480 out

01:30:41.600 the

01:30:41.740 family

01:30:42.020 being

01:30:42.360 a

01:30:42.900 suspect

01:30:43.200 or

01:30:43.620 actually

01:30:44.420 having

01:30:44.960 paid

01:30:45.720 somebody

01:30:46.080 to

01:30:46.400 carry

01:30:46.880 out

01:30:47.020 this

01:30:47.180 crime

01:30:47.460 as

01:30:48.260 investigator

01:30:48.780 I

01:30:49.220 take

01:30:49.620 each

01:30:50.640 possible

01:30:51.400 lead

01:30:51.800 or

01:30:51.980 each

01:30:52.240 possible

01:30:52.900 theory

01:30:54.000 and

01:30:54.340 I

01:30:54.480 put

01:30:54.700 them

01:30:54.800 on

01:30:54.940 a

01:30:55.280 dry

01:30:55.620 erase

01:30:55.940 board

01:30:56.340 and

01:30:56.740 then

01:30:57.100 as

01:30:58.140 the

01:30:58.420 evidence

01:30:59.300 comes

01:30:59.620 in

01:30:59.860 then

01:31:00.260 I

01:31:00.540 will

01:31:01.120 chart

01:31:01.460 that

01:31:01.680 evidence

01:31:02.100 underneath

01:31:02.520 that

01:31:02.840 one

01:31:03.080 particular

01:31:03.720 avenue

01:31:04.860 of

01:31:05.020 approach

01:31:05.380 that

01:31:05.520 I'm

01:31:05.620 looking

01:31:05.840 at

01:31:06.020 and

01:31:06.160 so

01:31:06.420 as

01:31:07.900 crazy

01:31:08.340 as

01:31:08.640 it

01:31:08.920 may

01:31:09.100 sound

01:31:09.560 there's

01:31:10.060 always

01:31:10.420 a

01:31:10.620 plausibility

01:31:11.240 and

01:31:11.580 I

01:31:11.740 think

01:31:11.940 when

01:31:12.100 you

01:31:12.220 look

01:31:12.440 at

01:31:12.560 the

01:31:12.700 fact

01:31:12.920 that

01:31:13.060 we

01:31:13.220 don't

01:31:13.520 actually

01:31:13.800 know

01:31:14.100 when

01:31:14.420 and

01:31:14.600 what

01:31:14.800 happened

01:31:15.180 inside

01:31:15.500 that

01:31:15.700 house

01:31:16.040 then

01:31:16.580 you

01:31:16.840 can't

01:31:17.260 say

01:31:17.440 that

01:31:17.620 his

01:31:17.800 intent

01:31:18.300 was

01:31:18.640 not

01:31:18.840 to

01:31:19.000 show

01:31:19.220 up

01:31:19.380 there

01:31:19.640 and

01:31:20.340 rob

01:31:20.900 the

01:31:21.080 place

01:31:21.800 I

01:31:24.320 want

01:31:24.680 to

01:31:24.780 talk

01:31:24.980 about

01:31:25.260 a

01:31:25.460 couple

01:31:25.600 of

01:31:25.740 other

01:31:25.940 possibilities

01:31:26.640 here

01:31:27.040 because

01:31:27.440 we've

01:31:28.420 been

01:31:28.540 talking

01:31:28.800 about

01:31:29.000 the

01:31:29.240 other

01:31:29.860 possibility

01:31:30.340 there's

01:31:30.700 a few

01:31:30.980 yes

01:31:32.020 I

01:31:32.340 suppose

01:31:32.820 burglary

01:31:33.800 gone

01:31:34.060 bad

01:31:34.400 is

01:31:34.760 one

01:31:35.000 of

01:31:35.140 them

01:31:35.320 I

01:31:35.800 don't

01:31:35.920 think

01:31:36.040 it's

01:31:36.160 most

01:31:36.340 plausible

01:31:36.700 but

01:31:36.980 it's

01:31:37.460 one

01:31:37.760 of

01:31:37.860 them

01:31:38.040 one

01:31:38.800 of

01:31:38.920 the

01:31:39.020 leans

01:31:39.260 is

01:31:39.500 family

01:31:39.960 member

01:31:40.280 who

01:31:40.880 wanted

01:31:41.280 to

01:31:41.360 get rid

01:31:41.600 of

01:31:41.700 Nancy

01:31:41.900 for

01:31:42.080 some

01:31:42.300 reason

01:31:42.600 one

01:31:43.280 of

01:31:43.380 the

01:31:43.480 leans

01:31:43.780 is

01:31:44.240 stalker

01:31:45.080 of

01:31:45.300 Savannah

01:31:45.580 Guthrie

01:31:46.020 who

01:31:46.460 wanted

01:31:47.600 to get

01:31:47.840 closer

01:31:48.120 to her

01:31:48.500 wanted

01:31:48.800 to hurt

01:31:49.160 her

01:31:49.480 something

01:31:50.180 like

01:31:50.480 that

01:31:50.780 you know

01:31:51.100 doing

01:31:51.520 something

01:31:51.780 to the

01:31:52.000 mother

01:31:52.140 they

01:31:52.360 couldn't

01:31:52.780 get

01:31:52.900 close

01:31:53.120 enough

01:31:53.300 to

01:31:53.480 Savannah

01:31:53.840 and

01:31:55.480 then

01:31:55.800 there's

01:31:56.200 also

01:31:56.360 the

01:31:56.500 possibility

01:31:56.840 of

01:31:56.980 just

01:31:57.120 random

01:31:57.600 ne'er

01:31:58.240 do

01:31:58.380 well

01:31:58.700 worker

01:31:59.920 or

01:32:00.100 somebody

01:32:00.420 who

01:32:00.580 didn't

01:32:00.760 like

01:32:00.900 Nancy

01:32:01.240 yeah

01:32:01.960 a

01:32:02.240 worker

01:32:02.660 Nancy

01:32:03.640 didn't

01:32:03.880 give him

01:32:04.100 a good

01:32:04.280 enough

01:32:04.440 tip

01:32:04.740 Nancy

01:32:05.080 said

01:32:05.520 the

01:32:05.660 wrong

01:32:05.820 thing

01:32:06.120 they

01:32:06.360 whatever

01:32:07.040 they saw

01:32:07.400 an

01:32:07.500 opportunity

01:32:07.860 and there

01:32:08.980 is still

01:32:09.400 the possibility

01:32:09.900 of legit

01:32:10.380 kidnapper

01:32:10.960 who decided

01:32:11.800 to like

01:32:12.280 steal this

01:32:12.880 old lady

01:32:13.200 because she

01:32:13.460 had a famous

01:32:13.800 daughter

01:32:14.060 and he

01:32:14.280 thought he

01:32:14.500 could extract

01:32:15.000 a bunch

01:32:15.320 of money

01:32:15.580 from her

01:32:15.920 so there's

01:32:16.600 a couple

01:32:16.860 of those

01:32:17.140 lanes

01:32:17.320 that I

01:32:17.520 wanted to

01:32:17.880 explore

01:32:18.140 with you

01:32:18.400 guys

01:32:18.560 today

01:32:18.880 including

01:32:19.360 stalker

01:32:21.000 Savannah

01:32:22.520 stalker

01:32:23.100 there

01:32:24.420 it just

01:32:24.880 so happens

01:32:25.460 that just

01:32:26.040 this week

01:32:26.660 a BBC

01:32:28.420 presenter

01:32:29.540 that's what

01:32:30.060 they call

01:32:30.320 them over

01:32:30.600 there

01:32:30.940 news anchor

01:32:32.000 who is

01:32:32.840 Scottish

01:32:33.360 she works

01:32:33.900 for Scotland's

01:32:34.800 BBC

01:32:35.160 or is it

01:32:36.700 GB

01:32:36.960 in any event

01:32:37.620 she's a

01:32:38.960 UK

01:32:39.760 broadcaster

01:32:41.200 for the BBC

01:32:41.840 and she's

01:32:42.340 Scottish

01:32:42.620 her name

01:32:43.160 is Anne

01:32:43.780 McAlpine

01:32:44.560 and she

01:32:45.540 just came

01:32:46.120 out this

01:32:46.480 week

01:32:46.700 and gave

01:32:46.980 an interview

01:32:47.380 about

01:32:47.940 having

01:32:48.860 been

01:32:49.220 stalked

01:32:50.280 by

01:32:50.760 an

01:32:51.420 erotomaniac

01:32:52.780 a guy

01:32:53.880 who

01:32:54.240 very

01:32:54.880 wrongly

01:32:55.500 believed

01:32:56.100 that they

01:32:56.820 were in

01:32:57.160 a relationship

01:32:57.800 even though

01:32:58.480 they had

01:32:58.920 never

01:32:59.600 ever

01:33:00.220 met

01:33:00.880 and

01:33:01.860 here is

01:33:02.580 what she

01:33:02.920 said

01:33:03.220 in

01:33:03.460 Sat

01:33:03.740 61

01:33:04.900 it was

01:33:06.200 letters

01:33:06.740 that started

01:33:07.400 coming to

01:33:08.240 my work

01:33:09.360 and

01:33:10.180 they

01:33:10.820 were

01:33:11.900 declarations

01:33:13.180 of love

01:33:13.800 poems

01:33:14.360 gifts

01:33:15.020 CDs

01:33:15.600 cards

01:33:17.000 those sort

01:33:17.620 of things

01:33:17.840 so more than

01:33:18.360 fan letters

01:33:19.000 yeah and they

01:33:20.200 were quite

01:33:20.560 frequent in

01:33:21.280 nature as

01:33:21.800 well

01:33:22.060 sometimes I

01:33:22.740 would receive

01:33:23.200 up to

01:33:23.500 three or

01:33:23.900 four in

01:33:24.660 one week

01:33:25.240 over the

01:33:25.800 course of

01:33:26.160 about

01:33:26.540 eight to

01:33:27.060 twelve

01:33:27.320 months

01:33:27.720 didn't think

01:33:28.640 a huge

01:33:29.040 amount of

01:33:29.740 them at

01:33:30.040 the time

01:33:30.400 I didn't

01:33:30.720 find them

01:33:31.100 particularly

01:33:31.540 threatening

01:33:32.120 unpleasant

01:33:33.160 and

01:33:33.700 uncomfortable

01:33:34.160 certainly

01:33:34.780 yes and

01:33:35.300 a bit

01:33:35.520 of a

01:33:35.760 nuisance

01:33:36.180 but a lot

01:33:36.860 of the

01:33:37.080 time

01:33:37.400 these letters

01:33:38.440 would end

01:33:38.760 up in

01:33:38.960 the bin

01:33:39.200 depending on

01:33:39.780 where I was

01:33:40.400 when I read

01:33:41.120 them so they

01:33:41.820 were in

01:33:42.420 block capitals

01:33:43.160 all signed

01:33:43.800 off by the

01:33:44.320 same name

01:33:44.900 and so there

01:33:46.040 was a reference

01:33:46.520 point there

01:33:47.100 was a name

01:33:47.580 and they

01:33:48.020 were also

01:33:48.920 dated

01:33:49.480 but I got

01:33:51.620 engaged

01:33:52.240 at the end

01:33:53.620 of 2021

01:33:54.320 and the tone

01:33:55.800 in the letters

01:33:56.320 sort of shifted

01:33:57.380 why because

01:33:58.000 the engagement

01:33:58.440 was public

01:33:59.020 yes and I

01:34:00.000 think this

01:34:01.220 person seemed

01:34:01.900 to think that

01:34:02.700 we were in

01:34:03.040 some sort of

01:34:03.500 relationship

01:34:04.060 they would

01:34:04.560 comment on

01:34:05.200 the clothes

01:34:05.680 that I wore

01:34:06.240 on TV

01:34:06.940 the way that

01:34:08.160 I moved

01:34:08.720 the way I

01:34:09.080 held my

01:34:09.440 pen

01:34:09.920 they thought

01:34:11.360 I was giving

01:34:11.900 subliminal

01:34:12.500 messages through

01:34:13.440 the television

01:34:14.180 Chad that is

01:34:16.360 so chilling

01:34:16.920 because as I

01:34:18.040 told you guys

01:34:18.680 that's exactly

01:34:19.480 what happened

01:34:20.060 to me

01:34:20.540 with my

01:34:21.540 stalker who

01:34:22.140 was an

01:34:22.400 erotomaniac

01:34:23.320 back when I

01:34:24.520 first started

01:34:24.980 at Fox

01:34:25.340 News he thought

01:34:26.240 he was getting

01:34:26.600 messages from

01:34:27.400 me through

01:34:28.360 my hand

01:34:29.260 gestures on

01:34:30.140 television he

01:34:30.720 thought that

01:34:31.280 we had some

01:34:31.740 whole coded

01:34:32.800 language that

01:34:33.540 we spoke to

01:34:34.040 one another

01:34:34.520 all of which

01:34:35.340 was made up

01:34:35.980 by this

01:34:36.420 unwell person

01:34:37.300 and there

01:34:39.660 you see it

01:34:40.060 happening to

01:34:40.560 this gal

01:34:41.000 too is it

01:34:42.280 possible that

01:34:43.000 it was

01:34:43.340 happening to

01:34:44.080 Savannah Guthrie

01:34:44.900 too whether

01:34:45.380 she knew it

01:34:46.000 or not and

01:34:47.380 this person

01:34:47.900 saw a soft

01:34:48.780 target featured

01:34:49.760 in that

01:34:50.320 today show

01:34:51.180 segment she

01:34:51.960 did about

01:34:52.500 her mom

01:34:53.160 where she

01:34:53.900 went to

01:34:54.400 Tucson and

01:34:55.120 showed off

01:34:55.660 Tucson and

01:34:56.340 they sat

01:34:56.700 in a Tucson

01:34:57.180 bar and

01:34:57.760 had margaritas

01:34:58.520 three months

01:34:59.700 before this

01:35:00.300 happened

01:35:00.680 well I'm

01:35:01.360 sure that

01:35:01.820 the FBI

01:35:02.660 is diving

01:35:03.220 into Savannah's

01:35:04.340 unread or

01:35:05.280 you know how

01:35:06.400 your texts or

01:35:07.420 the Instagram

01:35:08.120 messages go to a

01:35:08.920 separate folder if

01:35:09.600 you're not friends

01:35:10.060 with people I'm

01:35:11.660 sure they're diving

01:35:12.240 into that but

01:35:13.100 Megan you bring up

01:35:13.780 a great point we

01:35:14.620 have seen an

01:35:15.700 increase and

01:35:16.480 there's a term

01:35:16.960 out there called

01:35:17.620 extreme misogyny

01:35:19.060 and that's these

01:35:20.140 guys predominantly

01:35:21.740 men that just

01:35:23.740 have this hatred

01:35:24.680 they get a

01:35:25.420 friend request

01:35:26.080 or they see

01:35:26.580 someone on TV

01:35:27.320 and they truly

01:35:28.520 believe that

01:35:30.040 you know there's

01:35:30.800 some this is a

01:35:31.420 mental illness and

01:35:32.100 that they are being

01:35:32.780 invited into some

01:35:33.600 type of relationship

01:35:34.380 or that this person

01:35:35.100 is communicating

01:35:35.720 with them and

01:35:36.800 when they do not

01:35:37.680 get what they are

01:35:39.000 looking for that

01:35:39.700 extreme misogyny

01:35:40.680 they turn to

01:35:41.800 violence it is

01:35:43.260 hard though to

01:35:44.300 wrap my head that

01:35:45.400 this person would

01:35:47.680 turn and and

01:35:49.140 kidnap an 84 year

01:35:50.580 old woman to

01:35:52.280 take out your

01:35:53.060 anger but I

01:35:54.260 guess it is

01:35:54.780 plausible it is

01:35:55.540 possible if you

01:35:56.280 if you want to

01:35:56.880 affect the hearts

01:35:57.740 of a young woman

01:35:59.400 go take her

01:36:00.280 mother I mean

01:36:02.220 that's one of the

01:36:02.720 reasons why this

01:36:03.400 this story is so

01:36:05.400 compelling and has

01:36:06.320 so many eyeballs

01:36:07.100 which is like who

01:36:09.140 takes somebody's

01:36:10.020 mom you know it's

01:36:11.260 just like it's it's

01:36:13.220 just that has it

01:36:14.660 ever happened before

01:36:15.480 somebody's mom got

01:36:16.540 stolen that's like

01:36:17.580 one of the things

01:36:18.200 it's so bizarre that

01:36:19.900 we're all searching

01:36:20.540 for some explanation

01:36:21.860 let me play one

01:36:22.700 more thing on it

01:36:23.560 yeah go ahead

01:36:24.700 Chad just one more

01:36:25.380 thing because I

01:36:25.880 think you've done a

01:36:26.480 really good job

01:36:27.280 there's so many

01:36:27.880 keyboard investigators

01:36:29.000 out here that are

01:36:29.720 saying hey I'm

01:36:30.240 getting tired in this

01:36:31.100 case yada yada yada

01:36:32.540 we have a family

01:36:34.380 whose mother is

01:36:35.380 missing anybody out

01:36:37.640 there who's that

01:36:38.840 had a mother or a

01:36:39.740 loved one that would

01:36:40.520 go missing would be

01:36:41.660 begging for

01:36:42.480 investigators and

01:36:43.940 and just like you

01:36:44.540 said in the media to

01:36:45.460 be covering this 24

01:36:46.760 7 until you brought

01:36:48.180 them home yes this is

01:36:49.440 a little bit more

01:36:49.920 high profile because

01:36:51.060 of who Savannah is

01:36:52.000 it doesn't matter if

01:36:53.420 it was Tom Dick or

01:36:54.680 Harry down the

01:36:55.320 street someone's

01:36:56.900 mother's missing and

01:36:58.380 law enforcement's out

01:36:59.260 there doing the best

01:36:59.900 they can one other

01:37:01.800 soundbite from anchor

01:37:03.120 and McAlpine

01:37:04.080 62 and so there was

01:37:06.620 a situation where I

01:37:07.960 was getting dropped

01:37:08.460 off by a friend and

01:37:09.480 colleague after a late

01:37:10.920 shift it was dark and

01:37:12.640 this man was standing

01:37:14.180 in the middle of the

01:37:14.640 road holding a carrier

01:37:15.680 bag outside your home

01:37:17.160 outside my home

01:37:17.960 he approached the

01:37:19.360 car I was still in

01:37:20.460 the car talking to

01:37:21.160 my friend and he

01:37:23.040 held eye contact was

01:37:24.800 walking towards me

01:37:25.740 quite slowly and

01:37:27.400 something just felt

01:37:28.520 really off he didn't

01:37:30.260 look friendly he

01:37:30.960 didn't look like he

01:37:31.680 was looking for

01:37:32.220 directions he didn't

01:37:32.920 look like he was

01:37:33.940 going to speak even

01:37:35.380 he came right up to

01:37:36.220 the passenger side of

01:37:37.420 the of the car just

01:37:39.260 looked in I said to

01:37:40.640 my friend listen I

01:37:41.240 think you should drive

01:37:41.860 off and we locked

01:37:43.300 the doors and drove

01:37:43.960 off and then I

01:37:44.560 called my husband to

01:37:45.320 come to the front

01:37:46.380 door to meet me so

01:37:48.260 that was the first

01:37:49.020 incident outside the

01:37:50.880 house yeah and it

01:37:52.300 sort of intensified

01:37:53.240 after that a few

01:37:54.300 months after that and

01:37:55.220 my neighbors were

01:37:55.760 involved in sweat as

01:37:56.660 well because he was

01:37:57.280 trying to gain access

01:37:57.980 to the house he was

01:37:58.800 buzzing the flat in the

01:37:59.620 middle of the night

01:38:00.260 he would stand in the

01:38:01.360 middle of the road

01:38:01.800 just look up at the

01:38:02.600 window and what in

01:38:04.180 the middle of the

01:38:04.540 night yeah yeah the

01:38:06.020 first time was in the

01:38:06.680 middle of the night and

01:38:07.400 then he was sort of

01:38:08.240 sitting on my steps

01:38:09.060 waiting for me all

01:38:11.540 right Maureen my

01:38:12.180 point is if you were

01:38:13.360 like this about

01:38:14.200 Savannah Guthrie you

01:38:15.840 couldn't get anywhere

01:38:16.700 near her is she is

01:38:18.580 too well protected

01:38:19.780 that's all I'll say

01:38:20.940 but trust me she is

01:38:21.980 but you could get

01:38:23.200 near her exposed

01:38:24.500 84 year old mom

01:38:26.080 right and she she's

01:38:28.540 got a good security

01:38:29.380 team Savannah does

01:38:31.660 and they were in

01:38:32.600 contact with the

01:38:33.380 police shortly after

01:38:34.960 you know this event

01:38:37.020 unfolded began to

01:38:38.240 unfold and they were

01:38:40.080 working on anybody

01:38:42.160 that was you know

01:38:43.480 looking at her from

01:38:45.380 afar or from close

01:38:46.920 up but you know

01:38:48.220 she just had that

01:38:49.100 surgery a couple

01:38:49.860 weeks ago and she

01:38:51.860 was in a hospital

01:38:52.620 on her vocal cords

01:38:53.480 yeah and you know

01:38:55.460 maybe her mom was

01:38:56.540 the emergency

01:38:57.660 contact maybe that

01:38:59.840 is something that

01:39:00.560 sparked something

01:39:02.600 like this in someone

01:39:03.540 but you know having

01:39:05.680 or the today show

01:39:06.740 feature yeah well

01:39:08.120 there's one thing

01:39:09.040 that anyone with

01:39:11.120 two eyeballs can

01:39:12.240 say for sure and

01:39:13.220 that is Savannah

01:39:14.000 Guthrie loves her

01:39:15.940 mom unbelievably just

01:39:18.640 like a lot of us

01:39:19.520 yeah or have you

01:39:20.860 could just see it it

01:39:21.720 was so apparent and

01:39:22.880 it was so beautiful

01:39:23.740 to see yeah so if

01:39:25.160 you did want to

01:39:26.020 exercise some sort

01:39:27.240 of control over her

01:39:29.160 that would be a way

01:39:30.560 to do it but

01:39:31.280 something's got to

01:39:32.500 be done to to stop

01:39:33.800 this nonsense because

01:39:35.140 I mean going all the

01:39:36.740 way back to you

01:39:38.280 know the early 80s

01:39:39.620 I I was a victim

01:39:40.660 of a stalker when

01:39:41.600 it really wasn't

01:39:42.460 even a word yet

01:39:43.420 and uh everyone

01:39:45.380 was just like oh

01:39:46.280 you just got to

01:39:46.840 deal with it no I

01:39:47.720 don't have to deal

01:39:48.380 with it finally my

01:39:49.680 mom did and then

01:39:50.420 my uncle and then

01:39:51.160 some other police

01:39:51.820 officers stepped up

01:39:52.940 to try to help

01:39:54.560 the situation

01:39:55.220 it's illegal it's

01:39:57.060 totally illegal

01:39:58.200 it wasn't illegal

01:39:58.860 that woman that

01:39:59.700 Scottish broadcaster

01:40:00.780 got a restraining

01:40:02.080 order for life

01:40:03.360 against the guy

01:40:04.620 after a criminal

01:40:05.820 trial so he he'll

01:40:06.820 never be bothering

01:40:07.520 her again

01:40:08.020 yeah well hold

01:40:11.620 that thought because

01:40:12.080 I got to take a

01:40:12.560 quick break we're

01:40:13.460 gonna come back I

01:40:13.940 know Chad's got to

01:40:14.600 run but I I I am

01:40:15.980 going to play you

01:40:17.000 Savannah Guthrie on

01:40:19.800 kidnapping from her

01:40:21.920 book in an incredible

01:40:23.760 excerpt that's next

01:40:24.820 we'll be right back

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01:43:35.300 hey everyone it's me megan

01:43:38.260 kelly i've got some exciting

01:43:39.980 news i now have my very own

01:43:42.000 channel on sirius xm it's

01:43:44.220 called the megan kelly channel

01:43:45.320 and it is where you will hear

01:43:46.480 the truth unfiltered with no

01:43:48.300 agenda and no apologies along

01:43:50.420 with the megan kelly show you're

01:43:51.500 going to hear from people like

01:43:52.460 mark halperin link lauren maureen

01:43:54.740 callahan emily joshinsky jesse

01:43:56.480 kelly real clear politics and

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01:44:01.520 only on the megan kelly channel

01:44:03.320 sirius xm 111 and on the sirius

01:44:05.500 xm app

01:44:06.240 welcome back to the megan kelly show

01:44:12.720 we're back now with our panel and

01:44:14.180 i'm like kind of stunned by what we

01:44:18.040 have here this was found online

01:44:20.600 originally by somebody on x who

01:44:22.480 goes by at mccann case tweet and

01:44:25.020 this woman i don't know flagged

01:44:27.580 that savannah's book which was

01:44:30.440 released in february of 2024

01:44:32.180 discussed a game she used to play

01:44:35.560 as a kid with her cousin and it was

01:44:39.820 a kidnapping game involving nancy so

01:44:44.300 we pulled the audio that savannah did

01:44:46.480 of her book she in it you're going to

01:44:49.140 hear her talk about her cousin terry

01:44:50.760 who was she said like an aunt to her

01:44:53.340 growing up terry's 20 years older than

01:44:55.740 savannah so terry would be 74 right

01:44:58.580 now but listen to this about once a year

01:45:02.660 in the summertime cousin terry orchestrated

01:45:05.280 a kidnapping of my sister and me it went

01:45:08.560 down like this the cousins would visit for a

01:45:11.100 few days at our house in tucson and then

01:45:13.640 on the morning they were to leave terry

01:45:15.600 would wake us up early shushing us in the

01:45:18.140 pre-dawn darkness as we made our escape

01:45:20.220 we would all pile into her rickety station

01:45:23.060 wagon and head north the sky streaking with

01:45:25.660 bright oranges and pinks as the sun rose

01:45:27.900 over the colorless desert landscape

01:45:29.940 somewhere between phoenix and tucson terry

01:45:33.200 would make a pit stop and let annie and me

01:45:35.020 call home at a payphone

01:45:36.180 mom cousin terry kidnapped us to take us to

01:45:39.820 her house my mother would feign shock protest

01:45:43.540 how terribly she would miss us and assure

01:45:46.080 us she'd drive up to retrieve us in a few

01:45:47.920 days

01:45:48.320 jonathan that is just eerie it's eerie she

01:45:53.700 she released that in 2024 talking about

01:45:58.080 kidnapping and her mom and her sister and

01:46:00.760 savannah a cousin i don't know about cousin

01:46:03.480 terry i'm not sure whether cousin terry is

01:46:05.260 still in the picture or what but i'm not

01:46:07.660 suggesting cousin terry is behind this but

01:46:09.680 i'm suggesting that just the mere

01:46:11.160 discussion of kidnapping amongst the

01:46:12.880 guthrie family is potentially the kind of

01:46:15.960 thing that could put an idea in somebody's

01:46:17.980 head could potentially be relevant and

01:46:19.840 trying to track down where somebody first

01:46:21.920 got the the notion of a kidnapping and the

01:46:25.020 guthrie's and then you have three months

01:46:27.000 ago savannah with her mom in tucson on the

01:46:29.740 today show showing off where they eat

01:46:31.800 where they hang out i'm just trying to

01:46:33.740 piece together how this possibly could have

01:46:35.700 even come about since the idea of kidnapping

01:46:37.860 a mom is unfathomable to most of us

01:46:41.400 yeah that is um there's a lot of detail to

01:46:45.040 that story and so you know i i have a degree

01:46:48.800 in political science and psychology double

01:46:50.660 major that is i call it a double useless

01:46:52.840 degree but some of the things that i i do

01:46:55.360 remember out of psychology that really

01:46:57.780 stands out is that there was one woman who

01:46:59.900 had one of the case studies she had like

01:47:02.020 14 different personalities and she had a

01:47:05.180 sister well they were both abused as

01:47:07.400 children and uh her mom their mom would do

01:47:10.220 things like when they were she felt they

01:47:12.600 were being bad she would put them in a

01:47:14.140 bathtub with scalding water in it and make

01:47:16.000 them sit there and one developed this

01:47:18.840 incredible deep psychosis the other one

01:47:23.320 was pretty normal and just hated her mom

01:47:25.200 so you know this is another reason why i

01:47:28.680 wouldn't rule people out and i'm not

01:47:30.020 saying people should go down this rabbit

01:47:31.680 hole but as law enforcement i don't

01:47:33.820 rule these things out because if the

01:47:35.280 sheriff's never heard this before

01:47:36.700 this would be something that i would

01:47:38.600 definitely look into um but anybody who's

01:47:42.360 read that book as well as you both have

01:47:44.260 talked about stalkers and we heard uh the

01:47:46.400 other individual from um i think it was a

01:47:48.780 bbc or wherever she was talking about

01:47:50.560 her stalker people latch on to things in

01:47:53.980 weird weird ways and and and i know

01:47:56.080 megan maureen perhaps you have because

01:47:58.720 you're on tv a lot and i know megan you

01:48:00.820 probably had these where uh you get

01:48:03.260 emails from people uh that say some of

01:48:06.560 the weirdest things especially if you've

01:48:08.180 been the fbi they're like can you help

01:48:09.760 me out with the fbi or people write and

01:48:11.480 say hey can you introduce i used to host

01:48:13.180 for sean hannity uh on the uh the radio i

01:48:16.140 was his fill-in host and people would

01:48:17.820 write me and say hey can you can you get

01:48:19.440 me in touch with hannity i got to tell

01:48:20.700 him these things right right well that's

01:48:22.280 not realistic sure and um and so i think

01:48:26.260 when we look at again the totality of that

01:48:29.020 show that was on there it showed where

01:48:31.340 nancy lives it talked about savannah um

01:48:34.560 and then there's this book out this is

01:48:37.460 kind of a striking coincidence uh which

01:48:39.940 does happen sometimes but a striking

01:48:41.880 coincidence i think needs to be looked

01:48:43.580 into

01:48:43.900 and i would if i was uh investigating this

01:48:48.540 i would be looking at the people who

01:48:50.060 continuously send um tmz these emails

01:48:54.020 about how they've seen uh nancy right

01:48:57.140 oh yes we're gonna get to that because

01:48:59.380 there's another one because that is the

01:49:02.700 individual who very well uh could be

01:49:05.420 responsible um again if these people are

01:49:08.320 that wacky uh like you were talking about

01:49:11.060 or that this other um uh woman who was

01:49:13.840 stalked a person thought they were in a

01:49:15.160 relationship so if a person they could be

01:49:18.580 thinking two different things at the same

01:49:20.180 time and uh and and still trying to get

01:49:23.180 some kind of glory out of this so i i would

01:49:26.160 really seriously be looking at that hadn't

01:49:28.080 even considered that had not even

01:49:29.980 considered that the that they what seems

01:49:31.760 like a fraudster continuously emailing harvey

01:49:34.640 levin at tmz about how i know who the

01:49:37.240 kidnapper is and i want a bitcoin half half

01:49:40.560 now half later might actually be the

01:49:43.180 kidnapper looking to insert himself into

01:49:45.520 the discussion as opposed to the person who

01:49:48.040 wrote the first two four million six

01:49:50.660 million dollar demands sure that's an

01:49:52.660 interesting thought had not even

01:49:53.920 considered that because a person sounds

01:49:55.020 so farcical hold on put a pin in that

01:49:56.880 because i do want to come back to that

01:49:57.960 but while we're on the subject of the

01:49:59.940 potential stalker we showed this a couple

01:50:02.200 weeks ago with with all of you but let's

01:50:04.240 take a look at that today show segment

01:50:05.960 that i've now referenced a couple times

01:50:07.360 mom you guys came here in the 70s and

01:50:10.900 you'd been moving all around what made

01:50:12.360 you want to stay in tucson internet roots

01:50:14.780 and so wonderful just the air the quality

01:50:17.320 of life is played back and gentle yeah i

01:50:21.780 like to watch the javelina eat my plants

01:50:25.020 but the best thing about tucson is coming

01:50:27.980 home yes you guys should we raise the

01:50:30.160 glass quickly fair margarita cheers cheers

01:50:33.400 cheers love you love you

01:50:35.240 it's eerie now it's sad maureen you're

01:50:40.480 right by the way you there the pictures of

01:50:43.400 savannah and her mom are like very

01:50:46.040 compelling they're very compelling you can

01:50:47.880 see the love rating radiating off of these

01:50:50.580 two and i i can relate to it honestly it's

01:50:53.400 like savannah used to not we've talked

01:50:55.240 about it many times her dad died when she

01:50:56.700 was 16 my dad died when i was 15 my dad

01:50:58.940 died when i was sudden heart attacks yeah

01:51:00.700 yeah like it there's something i don't

01:51:03.980 know your mom becomes your mom and your

01:51:05.560 dad your mom when your dad dies young your

01:51:09.040 mom becomes both parents and my mom wasn't

01:51:11.760 the tough guy when we were kids but she

01:51:13.420 had to become one because she had six

01:51:15.540 teenagers when our dad died well there's

01:51:18.760 it's no accident you became an fbi agent

01:51:20.660 it's definitely no accident you became an

01:51:22.480 fbi agent it's not and it's no accident

01:51:23.920 savannah and i both went to law school and

01:51:25.680 then we both became reporters and i don't

01:51:28.880 know i would suggest for the record maybe

01:51:30.520 we both had something to prove of our own

01:51:32.380 like there's no question that the loss of a

01:51:35.700 father figure and an actual father at a

01:51:37.460 very young age has a profound impact on a

01:51:39.860 young woman and savannah did not want to

01:51:42.400 leave her mom when it was time to go off

01:51:45.060 and get her first reporting job and the

01:51:46.400 mother insisted that she do it

01:51:47.700 i understand that too it was like i had it

01:51:51.080 more when i went to college i felt so bad

01:51:52.740 because i was the third kid and i did not

01:51:55.020 want to leave my mom alone at all you know

01:51:57.600 i knew she'd be alone and i did my mom

01:52:00.880 said you're going like get out this is this is

01:52:04.360 that i insist and i went and so it's

01:52:07.680 incredibly sad and it's incredibly awful to

01:52:10.580 think that something as sweet as a segment

01:52:12.820 with her mom could possibly have played a

01:52:15.800 role in the mom's targeting or like a you

01:52:19.240 know a fun childhood story about like a

01:52:21.900 silly game but that silly game involved the

01:52:24.440 word kidnapping and even a fake kidnapping

01:52:26.760 within the family where they took her you

01:52:29.220 just never know what's going to set a

01:52:30.720 lunatic down the lane he or she goes sweet

01:52:35.260 baby jesus can we just rid this world of

01:52:38.160 all the lunatics they are just outnumbering

01:52:41.760 us at this point it's it's crazy but with

01:52:45.180 with regard to the kidnapping thing in her

01:52:47.580 book you know it sounds like the older

01:52:52.040 cousin terry was just coming up with some

01:52:55.400 like secret plan to get the kids up early in

01:52:59.520 the morning to get them out of the house to

01:53:01.120 beat the traffic and she just had a had a you

01:53:04.060 know a a good imagination how someone else

01:53:08.300 takes that is is a totally different matter

01:53:10.580 you know my dad if he were late coming home

01:53:13.180 as a joke he would call my mom and you know

01:53:15.880 she'd be all upset and he would just say to

01:53:18.520 her hey mary don't pay the ransom i've

01:53:20.560 escaped and we would all crack up and she'd

01:53:23.460 say that's son of a gun you know but um

01:53:26.640 so there are people that can find a little

01:53:30.420 dark humor in things and our whole my whole

01:53:32.640 family's first responders so we all have

01:53:34.580 that kind of dark humor so i'm not blaming

01:53:38.340 we're irish so we have it's so true of the

01:53:41.200 irish it's we can't we try to hide it but

01:53:44.500 it just when it comes out you just see

01:53:46.380 everyone burst into laughter and you know

01:53:48.600 yes you just gotta joke about everything

01:53:51.020 inappropriate and appropriate especially

01:53:53.520 inappropriate a great that's it's a great

01:53:56.140 way to go through life honestly it's like

01:53:57.480 that's why you don't get too stressed out

01:53:59.120 and hopefully you live a long life because

01:54:01.400 you're not running running around with high

01:54:02.740 cortisol all the time you laugh it if away

01:54:05.180 if we got very effective tool if we got rid

01:54:06.940 of all the bad people like maureen saying

01:54:08.500 their social media would be reduced about

01:54:10.460 10 percent of the people that uh that go on

01:54:12.940 there every day so i don't know this is

01:54:15.320 also true some potential lunatic okay dive

01:54:17.560 right in don't yeah and now that that leads

01:54:20.880 me back to the fourth letter that harvey

01:54:23.560 levin uh got over at tmz so as the audience

01:54:26.220 knows i know maureen's rolling her eyes and

01:54:28.220 throwing her head back i know we all feel

01:54:30.280 that way like what the f i'm starting to

01:54:32.560 wonder does harvey have an alibi for where

01:54:35.680 he was that night just kidding so some many of

01:54:40.620 the twitter follows like they're so fed up with

01:54:43.340 like the way this investigation is going

01:54:44.940 they've been like they've they've been like

01:54:46.340 have they checked under nancy's bed have

01:54:49.220 they have they checked the basement you

01:54:51.100 know some basic searching mechanisms that

01:54:53.880 they're pushing but here's what's what's

01:54:56.180 happened harvey levin has now gotten four

01:55:00.680 letters from someone not claiming to be the

01:55:02.800 kidnapper but claiming to know who the

01:55:04.600 kidnapper is and for the low low price of

01:55:06.920 one bitcoin he will tell harvey who the

01:55:10.920 kidnapper is that's how number one started

01:55:13.860 then it grew to well now the fbi is offering

01:55:16.720 a hundred thousand bitcoin's only worth 65

01:55:18.960 so i'll take a hundred thousand for my

01:55:21.520 information now and i want it to be 50

01:55:23.120 grand in bitcoin before i reveal and the

01:55:25.880 other 50 after i reveal different iterations

01:55:28.940 of this then and also he was offended that

01:55:31.820 they raised the award he was like i feel

01:55:34.280 attacked something like that sounds like an

01:55:36.800 absolute moron um so harvey was on tv you'll

01:55:43.540 be shocked to hear talking about this uh

01:55:46.540 development and here is what he said stop

01:55:48.820 57 i have something to say to you um and i've

01:55:53.640 already talked to the fbi about this that if you

01:55:59.060 are not real um you're committing a crime this is

01:56:03.780 the fourth letter you've sent and i should tell

01:56:05.980 everybody that in this letter it says um i know

01:56:10.740 what i saw five days ago south of the border and i

01:56:14.720 was told to shut up so i know who he is and that was

01:56:20.720 definitely nancy with them uh this is the second time he

01:56:27.200 has referred to more than one person involved in

01:56:31.320 this he also says one of the reasons he's worried about

01:56:34.780 coming forward is he has a record he has a burglary on his

01:56:38.760 record from 10 years ago if you're worried about getting this

01:56:42.520 money um and you really do have this information send it to

01:56:47.680 us you're sending us these letters send it to us we will

01:56:51.480 forward it to the fbi so this is a way for you to get that

01:56:56.580 money if this really is legitimate okay um so now in the third letter by

01:57:04.260 the way that preceded this harvey said the man had written be

01:57:08.260 prepared to go international be prepared to go international and uh so

01:57:14.140 now we've got a fourth letter claiming

01:57:17.060 he saw nancy with quote them in mexico jonathan um i mean

01:57:26.120 to be honest we haven't fully explored the south of the border possibilities

01:57:31.340 the sheriff kind of ruled them out the other i mean i don't believe the

01:57:35.920 sheriff i gotta be honest i don't believe a word that comes out of the

01:57:38.020 sheriff's mouth but the other day he did say like no we don't even think that's a

01:57:41.500 thing so i okay based on what your democrat policies truly like how have

01:57:47.700 you totally ruled out south of the you don't know who fucking did it sorry i'm

01:57:50.440 just i've had it with this guy um should we be talking should we be

01:57:55.500 paying a bitcoin and a half to see what this guy may know about south of

01:58:01.040 the border well first of all let me say that

01:58:03.300 you know again hosting radio you make live reads so easy because they're terrible

01:58:07.540 but as you can see harvey levin who i figured he would be able to read a

01:58:13.040 little bit better than that that was terrible

01:58:14.720 first of all but it was pretty stilted yeah so but but listen this goes back i

01:58:20.700 found something very striking i've heard him read that

01:58:22.880 already a couple times but for whatever reason it didn't jump out at me that

01:58:27.380 the individual that is supposedly writing this this these letters first of all

01:58:31.360 are they coming from the same email and if they are

01:58:34.400 then that is very telling secondly the i think he said yes i think he did say

01:58:39.340 they so the individual just said that he has a record for burglary

01:58:42.200 now i find that very odd as well um as i told you last time i was on here

01:58:47.120 20 percent of the people who commit a homicide are the ones who call in and

01:58:51.360 report the homicide so they think that's going to keep

01:58:54.500 them out of trouble or for whatever reason so um it could be the case and i would

01:59:00.160 hope that they were looking into this that this individual could be the one

01:59:04.540 who was actually going in there to burglarize the place

01:59:07.440 um didn't even think about tmz or anything

01:59:10.720 and then uh these other potentially fraud uh ransom letters came in

01:59:16.860 and were read by by tmz and so this individual reached out

01:59:21.240 because he wants to get some money for something perhaps it was a robbery gone bad

01:59:25.580 but uh the reality is again when we're looking at the totality of all these

01:59:31.000 things this is how you go down as investigator you have to look down these

01:59:34.560 rabbit holes there's so many different cases that

01:59:37.880 were not solved until years later because they just

01:59:40.740 did not take a second to stop and say what what is this

01:59:44.640 is there a possibility here because statement analysis is one of the most

01:59:48.580 important things that you can go through

01:59:50.140 i think as an agent unfortunately a lot of us don't go through that much

01:59:53.340 training i got the opportunity to i wasn't a polygrapher but polygraphers

01:59:57.080 are amazing at it and statement analysis can tell you a

02:00:00.220 lot and that last email was was that that he got that's very

02:00:04.820 odd that it um that he mentioned that he has a record

02:00:08.280 for burglary it's so interesting so maybe

02:00:12.480 go ahead maybe we need to be i mean maureen that's a very interesting theory

02:00:16.800 that like because harvey keeps saying i'm telling you they're taking the

02:00:19.800 the earlier two notes that demanded a four million and six million dollar

02:00:24.800 ransom that's what the first note to harvey said

02:00:27.900 you know to to the media the the two local tucson stations and then harvey too

02:00:31.540 and then the follow-up note didn't offer proof of life but seemed to be

02:00:35.040 reiterating like i want the money um that those are not the real ones and

02:00:40.780 didn't come from a real kidnapper but possibly

02:00:42.720 these the weird one two three four emails that followed with this guy who

02:00:48.400 seems very much to want attention um and also a bitcoin and a half that

02:00:54.260 possibly possibly it is the real kidnapper

02:00:57.940 trying to get a quick buck off of this and just behaving

02:01:01.620 very recklessly well water seeks its own level

02:01:05.720 and this seems to be at about the same level as the activity we saw on nancy's

02:01:11.360 front porch yeah with regard kind of does yeah with

02:01:14.680 regard to the um border it is 60 miles away

02:01:18.220 it is a place where you could well you could do it anywhere you could

02:01:22.580 certainly do it in the united states also but

02:01:24.700 you could have you could pay someone to take care of nancy

02:01:28.320 while you go through the negotiation process to get your money

02:01:32.360 um you know but there would there are great cameras at the border

02:01:38.120 you know so if we're looking at that time frame

02:01:41.500 the the time that this event potentially ended

02:01:45.400 and and then go 60 miles or you're we always look at windows we always start

02:01:51.320 with these windows you can expand out

02:01:53.080 or you can um hone in but we're going to start with a window like that so there

02:01:57.620 it would it would definitely give us a whole bunch of leads and i'm

02:02:02.220 fairly certain they've got to be looking at that anyways because

02:02:05.140 it is a line of inquiry that is logical and we always follow these logical paths

02:02:11.260 but we were told initially that that was no no that isn't what was happening

02:02:15.680 um i don't think the bureau would listen to that

02:02:18.900 um i think they they would have definitely looked that way

02:02:23.000 my friend jim galiano um he he was the league at mexico and he talked the other day

02:02:29.700 on fox all about um um the type of behavior that you would see at our league at working

02:02:36.920 with the other people or working with everybody else in the government there at the embassy

02:02:40.840 and in other places and all of our partners we have really strong partnerships in mexico

02:02:46.080 believe it or not the fbi does we have a number of fbi agents assigned down there

02:02:50.480 we have dea agents assigned down there all kinds of people and we work together all the time

02:02:55.460 so if i have a lead in mexico i would send that lead to mexico i would speak to my counterpart there

02:03:02.360 they might refer me to the dea or department of state so there is a well oiled machine in all these

02:03:09.860 different countries but i would say in in particular mexico we have a very good working relationship

02:03:16.200 with our um counterparts unfortunately you don't know if if he if somebody took her south of the border

02:03:21.680 if they were smart enough to store her someplace for a day or two until the heat wasn't as intense

02:03:27.820 and then cross the border with her in the trunk or something and you know let's face it a guy

02:03:32.700 in in his 30s with the black mustache and the black goatee or soul patch that you're not going to look

02:03:39.520 suspicious driving from arizona into mexico that probably happens about a thousand times a day

02:03:45.960 unless he forgot to take off like i don't think he would have drawn a lot of suspicion unless he

02:03:49.880 forgot to take off the ski mask and the gloves well i mean if if we got that lucky my god and

02:03:56.880 they didn't crack that one then that that really is about the way there is another case i don't know

02:04:02.440 i just heard it in passing on one of the other networks a former fbi agent was talking about a case

02:04:07.800 where recently in recent history a guy was a wealthy male was abducted and taken into mexico for a ransom

02:04:16.700 so and from tucson so for this sheriff to say he said that i think the first or second day

02:04:22.940 that it is not likely to be something from across the border i mean again that's a political statement

02:04:29.780 just like i think the other thing about clearing the family is an emotional statement i i uh i think

02:04:35.520 that's the wrong avenue to go down because immediately he just stopped that force multiplier of people

02:04:40.460 considering the fact that it might have gone over the border or come from over the border but

02:04:45.600 i was i will say this if this individual how can you how can you say that's not a thing when you you

02:04:50.740 you don't know who did it that seems like oh it just definitely wasn't a mexican it wasn't an illegal

02:04:55.880 you know it's like it's a political but you have no idea who it was

02:04:59.100 how can you possibly say that it's kind of it kind of sounds like he he was thinking the same

02:05:04.920 thing we were thinking at that time yeah right exactly maybe maybe his focus was elsewhere so he

02:05:11.880 was pretty sure it wasn't somebody from mexico um i don't believe a word he says i really don't i

02:05:16.780 right now uh i'll believe my own eyes and i'll watch law enforcement and see where they go

02:05:22.840 and let that be our guide but i don't believe the sheriff's words i'll say this if

02:05:27.440 if this was not a kidnapping for ransom and and something happened in that house and the individual

02:05:32.820 moved her whether she was alive or she was already deceased at that point

02:05:37.900 i would suggest the possibility that she's within probably two hours of her home because that this

02:05:48.680 occurred and the removal was close to three o'clock in the morning which would give you about two hours

02:05:52.760 of sunlight and people that aren't that comfortable with moving somebody or that experience they may

02:05:59.680 be experienced with going into a home when everybody's asleep and robbing a place or burglarizing

02:06:04.220 but uh if they're not experienced with moving somebody and there's been a situation where something

02:06:09.860 went awry then the possibility is they wouldn't want to move them after the sun came up so because they

02:06:15.800 did this in the dark they're comfortable in the dark there's a potential she's within i would say

02:06:19.420 two hours driving distance uh which which could lead over the border but uh but most likely

02:06:25.960 somewhere within that vicinity yeah definitely could because they said she's about an hour from

02:06:31.680 the border clearly the police were also considering the possibility that nancy was killed and left

02:06:38.620 somewhere near her own property i mean all those searches in the backyard that looking in the sewer or

02:06:44.500 whatever that was um pacemaker bluetooth they're looking for now the septic tank the pacemaker exactly

02:06:50.480 like and by the way um ashley benfield interviewed somebody who said that that that helicopter um you

02:06:57.000 know signal seeker can can read sniffer about a thousand feet away so it can but like that that's great i mean

02:07:04.900 that's better than 50 or 30 or but like a thousand feet like a helicopter that's a thousand feet above me on

02:07:12.040 the ground is going to freak me out it's going to freak out pretty much anybody i don't i just can't imagine

02:07:17.300 that thing's going to be able to get super low throughout the tucson area without completely upsetting

02:07:22.840 the the local residents for what it's doing up there and how low it's going to come and is this safe

02:07:28.880 they're already complaining about the media about the police the neighbors are have about had it with

02:07:33.620 this whole thing but look a woman is missing all right we're going to leave it there for today you guys

02:07:38.420 but to be continued and thank you as always maureen and jonathan great to have you thank you

02:07:43.160 thank you all right we'll be back tomorrow with plenty of news we're actually preparing a deep dive

02:07:48.400 on epstein for you there's been so much going on over the past couple of weeks i mean it's just like

02:07:54.940 there's been so much irresponsible reporting on this as you sort of sit back and watch them just

02:08:00.020 throw out a name and then that name and then that name and it's like okay they're not all the same

02:08:04.960 like what what exactly did they do tell me exactly what this person did and that person did

02:08:09.140 in any event we took a shot at trying to figure that out and we will bring that to you tomorrow

02:08:13.260 along with the latest in this case of course we'll see you then thanks for listening to the

02:08:19.640 megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

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The Megyn Kelly Show - February 17, 2026

The Left's Brainwashing and the Nancy Guthrie Case Sheriff's Alarming Changing Story, with Buck Sexton and Former FBI Agents ｜ Ep. 1254

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