Amber Heard and Johnny Depp get their day in court and Michael Sussman gets a chance to speak for himself. Megyn talks about the latest in the Mueller and Depp cases. Plus, a story about a woman who was on the jury in the Hillary Clinton impeachment trial.
00:00:00.520Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
00:00:11.380Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I hope you all had a nice Memorial Day weekend, spending time with your family, with your friends, and hopefully taking some time to remember those who sacrificed for our country and the freedoms we hold so dearly.
00:00:27.000I spent a long time talking about it with my kids, trying to get them to understand what it means, what Memorial Day means, and who we're honoring, and why we're so lucky to live in this country.
00:00:37.780Didn't come easy and didn't come for free. And by the way, on that subject, it's always a busy weekend for everyone, so if you missed our Friday interview with Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer, I promise you it is well worth your time.
00:00:52.560I had so many friends come to me this weekend. We went to the Jersey Shore and say that they listened to it on their ride down there or what have you.
00:01:01.500And he's just an incredible person with a spectacular story that just will move you to all sorts of places.
00:01:09.580So if you have a good drive ahead of you, we went long on that one. We played a version live on Sirius, but the podcast was a little longer because we didn't want to cut him short.
00:01:18.260But listen to it. Cue it up. Dakota Meyer from this past Friday.
00:01:23.040OK, so now we are on Monday and at this hour, we're waiting for verdicts in two big court cases.
00:01:30.900And I wonder which one you think is the bigger court case. I mean, I can tell you this weekend where I went, nobody was talking about anything other than Amber Heard and Johnny Depp.
00:01:38.980But my one friend who's more conservative said, I've been following it at all. I've been following the trial of Michael Sussman.
00:01:45.160So it really kind of depends. I've been following both because I'm in the news biz.
00:01:49.680And I have to say that that Sussman verdict could come down at any minute and has much larger implications for for politics, at least.
00:01:57.900And you could argue the country than Amber and Johnny, though that one has larger cultural implications to Sussman is the former Hillary Clinton campaign lawyer accused of walking into the FBI shortly before the 2016 election and trying to say, hey, you know, just as a concerned citizen, I want to let you know that something bad is happening.
00:02:19.580We appear to have unearthed the connection between this Russia bank, Alpha Bank and Trump.
00:02:25.280It's not good. You guys should look into it.
00:02:27.900Same time, they dropped that same oppo research, which had been totally manufactured to The New York Times.
00:02:34.560And they were trying to get The Times to publish it.
00:02:37.240And they thought they'd get a better shot at that if they could get the FBI to investigate it.
00:02:42.260And in the end, the only one they got to bite was Slate, that left wing, totally uncredible rag that said, oh, we'd love to run with this.
00:02:51.740We would love to do it. Sure. They're embarrassed.
00:02:57.160But now there's an attempt at accountability to the guy who tried to peddle it to the FBI without disclosing he was there on behalf of the Hillary Clinton campaign.
00:03:05.140All right. It gets kind of complicated, but we've got a guy who's been neck deep in it.
00:03:08.220He's going to he and I will walk through it with you so you can accurately understand where this is going as we are on verdict to watch.
00:03:14.840The second verdict, as I mentioned, between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, he sued her for defamation.
00:03:19.740She's counterclaimed for the same. And that thing began with a bang and ended with one, too.
00:03:25.000The closing arguments last week were amazing.
00:03:39.020And can I tell you not surprised just reading this article out of the Boston Herald by Howie Carr car talking about the jurors who made it onto that jury.
00:03:51.760The judge was, I think, Barack Obama appointee whose wife is all tied up in Democrat firms involving Eric Holder.
00:04:00.320And it's a who's who of Democrat administrations, Obama, Biden, Merrick Garland.
00:04:08.240You go down the list, but that's the judge.
00:04:10.560The jurors who are allowed on that jury openly said, I donated to Hillary Clinton.
00:05:00.620And the FBI has already had one guy convicted, an FBI attorney for wrongfully trying to get gin up a case against Carter Page.
00:05:09.460And they had one other guy who he testified on the stand.
00:05:13.600He's under investigation right now for withholding information that would have undermined the Russia Trump narrative.
00:05:20.760So the FBI is not exactly a sympathetic, a sympathetic victim here, if you will.
00:05:27.820And I'm using that term, that quote in quotes, that term in quotes, victim.
00:05:33.000Anyway, we'll get into all of this in just one second.
00:05:35.220But we're going to kick it off today in Uvalde, Texas, where there's disturbing new information about the shooter's actions leading up to that awful day.
00:05:44.020And indeed, now we know there were more warning signs that it seemed that no one cared to flag.
00:05:51.600And by the way, new developments today into the Supreme Court leaguer, the leaguer, the marshal, maybe getting a little closer to figuring out who it was.
00:06:05.240He's the founding editor and co-owner of The Weekly Dish, a hugely successful newsletter on Substack and hosted the podcast The Dish Cast with Andrew Sullivan.
00:06:20.220So I won't put you on the spot and make you discuss Sussman because we do have a lawyer coming on who's been following it very carefully.
00:06:26.460Um, but I do want to talk about Uvalde, which is in the news very much.
00:06:32.600I know you've written about it yourself and the absolutely dreadful developments that have come out of there about the police in action on the spot.
00:06:40.200And it's not to say that the blame lies with the police.
00:06:42.400The blame lies with the shooter 100 percent.
00:06:45.200But what happened down there is absolutely extraordinary and it's unforgivable and it's painful to even discuss.
00:06:53.420Well, like you, I, I just, I, I almost don't know what to say when 19 children are gunned down.
00:07:03.020It, it, every time I think about it, my heart sinks even lower.
00:07:07.980And I think that kind of numbness, uh, was bad enough.
00:07:13.620And then when you got the subsequent news that the cops seem to have completely bungled this and that those lives might have been saved.
00:07:23.180And then you also see the story of this incredibly troubled, obviously pathological kid, bullied, isolated, angry, threatening, lots and lots and lots of red flags right there.
00:07:39.460I, Megan, I, I don't know what to say.
00:07:45.940So the gun situation here is for me and for anybody outside the United States, uh, pretty hard to understand.
00:07:55.700I mean, it's, you understand why, and this is, this is the only sort of Western developed country that for hundreds of years had a completely open frontier.
00:08:04.540You, you, you, you can understand why with the second amendment that evolved, but then we're in a situation where the, the simple consequence of that is the massacre of children.
00:08:17.340And that will happen again and again and again.
00:08:26.300I don't think there's anything to be done.
00:08:28.500I've watched the politics of this and I don't, I feel, I don't feel strong.
00:08:34.100I'm not one of these new immigrants think that America's gun laws are without reason or without defense or without historical roots, but I don't know how much longer our collective consciences.
00:08:47.400Can allow something like an AR-15 in the hands of anyone, really, uh, a machine gun that was devastated.
00:08:58.220These children's bodies to such an extent that the parents had to give DNA to recognize their children.
00:09:06.380Uh, it is, it is unconscionable in any other place.
00:09:10.380I don't disagree with your feeling of futility.
00:09:15.080Um, but, and I'm not a huge gun person.
00:09:18.000My audience knows like I'm, uh, it's a, it's an amendment.
00:09:59.300But doesn't it have many more bullets?
00:10:01.420No, this guy modified it or I think I'm pretty sure he modified it and the previous shooter modified it, but no, it can't fire faster or more bullets than, than a handgun.
00:10:12.820So I know it looks like, I'm happy to say I don't know the difference, but that, but to me, that's the futility of the problem.
00:10:18.840It kind of goes to your original point because, you know, we have 330 million people here and we have 400 million guns and we're not getting rid of them.
00:10:27.020We, we are not, we're not doing what Canada just did today and said, we're going to have an assault weapons ban.
00:10:57.540I can, I understand that, but what it means, what it means is that America is the only country that will massacre its own children on a regular basis.
00:11:29.300I understand that being an American means to live in a country where children will be massacred on a regular basis.
00:11:34.180Well, uh, listen, I'm, I find this deeply alarming too, but there have been massive shootings of children overseas and other countries, perhaps not as regularly as we see here.
00:11:45.540And it's a problem we have to take a hard look at.
00:11:48.040Um, but the, the thing is we have a huge country.
00:11:51.820Our country's way bigger than virtually all the other countries that in which this has happened or where we look at to sort of see what's happening there.
00:11:58.660Um, 330 million people are not easy to control and we have lunacy and we have red flags that we ignore.
00:12:05.880And I mean, both in connection with the selling of guns and just in connection with policing ourselves, you know, like being a conservative citizen and calling up, you know, the authorities and saying, Hey, this guy's a problem.
00:12:17.800Like we saw with a Buffalo shooter, he tortured a cat to death.
00:12:21.100I mean, animal torture is always a precursor.
00:12:24.920It's all, I mean, like you can take it to the bank anyway.
00:12:28.140Um, well, I mean, I think one of the things I would say is that I have been persuaded these red flag laws partly because of David French's passionate support for them seem like at least one way forward, uh, to try and catch, uh, psychopaths or just deeply troubled young men from doing this.
00:12:50.880And if you look at this kid's past, no father, if you know, present father, if, and you will find through all these cases and through a lot of, not just mass murders, but regular shootings, which happen every day, that it's, it's young men without fathers that are doing this.
00:13:12.560And at some level, we have to also get the deeper cultural issues here, which is that men and boys, boys need dads.
00:14:15.900It's like, no, you can, you can, when they're a minor, you can force them to go to school or you can seek help.
00:14:21.140And you can understand he's withdrawing from society and you can monitor his online behavior and so on.
00:14:26.220And that was the news just, uh, over the weekend that he did.
00:14:30.880In addition to this timeline, we're now getting about what happened with the, with the police.
00:14:36.100There is a social media app called Yubo, Y-O-Y-U-B-O.
00:14:42.220And, um, I had never heard of this, but apparently it's based in Paris.
00:14:46.940And sure enough, Andrew, we heard from the FBI after the Buffalo shooting that the vast majority of school shooters or mass shooters do telegraph their intentions beforehand.
00:14:55.780And the news is we went into the Memorial day weekend was, Oh, he, you know, 30 minutes before he shot his grandmother.
00:15:01.200He was like, I'm going to shoot my grandma.
00:15:24.780There was one woman, um, last name Robbins, 19 years old, said he verbally threatened to break down her door and rape and murder her after she rebuffed his sexual advances.
00:15:33.020She reported him to Yubo several times, she says, and blocked him, but continued seeing his live streams.
00:15:39.760Another girl, Hannah, 18, from Canada, said she reported him, too, to Yubo in early April after he threatened to shoot up her school and rape and kill her and her mother during one live stream session.
00:15:54.780But we don't have a big system to collect all the red flags as they pop up, be it on Yubo, be it from the school that sees the dropout come, be it from his friends at Wendy's who said he was inappropriate there and making troubling remarks.
00:16:10.540You know, there's just no way to capture it in such a large country.
00:16:13.660And the other thing is that online, of course, you add the number of people with a million different avatars, a million different names, and a huge amount of anonymity.
00:16:25.840And I don't know what would be required for us to be able to find these things.
00:16:31.880But I'm sure it's doable at some level, and we should have better ways in which we can identify this, and social media companies should take responsibility.
00:16:54.180And that seems to be something that social media companies, again, so many major companies seem to think their only goal and their only motive is to make money.
00:17:05.620And it is to make money and to help please their shareholders.
00:17:13.560And I think it's a terrible thing that major companies do not feel in any way responsible for the social peace of their own societies.
00:17:24.220It's as if they exist in some weird world of cyberspace where they don't acknowledge that they also have responsibilities as well as rights.
00:17:35.060And you point out that it's almost always young men between the ages of, let's say, 15, if it's a school shooting, and 22, you know, around there.
00:18:01.640I can't even remember a case where it was a young girl or a woman.
00:18:05.060So there's a way of creating a profile in the same way, frankly, we did for the, you know, radical Islamist terror attacks that the country was suffering for for a long time after 9-11, the domestic terror attacks.
00:18:18.340And people can say it's inappropriate, but there's a profile, you know, and there's a reason, like, you're not going to suspect me of committing radical Islamist terror on the homeland or you of committing a school shooting.
00:18:59.120And, of course, it's 90% happening among men whose testosterone levels are at their natural life peak, which is likely to reduce their inhibitions, increase their likelihood for anger, and especially if they're in conflict with others, lead to outbreak.
00:19:17.560And as I said, we can do all this stuff, but unless these boys, and that's what they are in so many circumstances, don't have someone in their lives who can tell them what's right and what's wrong, they are going to keep doing this.
00:19:57.980There may be beginnings of a shift on mental illness, I think, Megan.
00:20:00.900I mean, I do think that the way in which mental illness has combined with drug addiction, especially with meth and to some extent with fentanyl now, and homelessness, we, I think, need to have a conversation again about whether it is a good thing for the mentally ill to be allowed to walk free everywhere and not to have some compulsory kind of care.
00:20:28.500If not for their own sake, then for the sake of the rest of the country.
00:20:33.340I mean, many of these shootings of people with serious, you know, really difficult mental challenges.
00:20:39.860And that's, you know, that's, we did, we started doing that in the 80s.
00:20:44.700It was Reagan, actually, that supported the deregulation of what we used to call committing.
00:20:52.180I don't know what the, in England it's called sectioning or something, they come up with some word.
00:20:56.060But it means involuntary, being involuntarily sent to a hospital where your mental health can be tackled.
00:21:04.800And I, for one, having looked around me and seen the city I grew up in, and also in my own life, people with mental illness,
00:21:12.080I think allowing people with mental illness to get sicker and sicker until their lives are being thrown away is not something I could do in good conscience with a family member or someone I had any, and I've had family members in such institutions.
00:21:28.460And I, and they are, you know, they are incredibly important for helping people with serious mental illness.
00:21:36.820We have such a mass problem with it now because we don't have good facilities.
00:21:40.320We don't have, I've said before, loving facilities for, let's say, a mom or a grandma, in this case,
00:21:45.760that wanted to involuntarily commit with their, their 18-year-old son or grandson, that there's no place right now that you would willingly put a loved child or grandchild.
00:21:57.100And then we need to be, you know, the, the left wants to go after the Second Amendment rights.
00:22:01.660What about the Fourth Amendment rights, right?
00:22:03.520The, the, the freedom to be in, to avoid involuntary searches and seizures or unreasonable searches and seizures, right?
00:22:10.040That's, that's why they can't just lock us up and throw away the key.
00:22:13.060Well, why don't we take a look at that?
00:22:15.080Because I think a little, if we're going to ebb and flow on some of these rights, that should be one on the table.
00:22:19.440I mean, what was this guy doing out and about after making these threats that were public and knowable?
00:22:24.940You know, shouldn't we be casting a wider net while Merrick Garland's so busy investigating parents as threats for not wearing masks at school board meetings,
00:22:35.120but he's doing nothing to coordinate, at least with the social media.
00:22:38.780That, you know, he wants to coordinate with the social media on disinformation doesn't, people putting out wrong COVID info.
00:22:43.880But what about coordinating with social media companies on men who fit this profile, who are of the age,
00:22:49.300who have been reported repeatedly by people for making threats to shoot up schools, right?
00:22:55.060The left won't even talk about that because civil liberties, other than the Second Amendment, they care about civil liberties, except for that one.
00:23:00.740There are civil liberties, civil liberties.
00:23:04.140But I do think that when you're dealing with people who are not fully able to be, to consent to things,
00:23:09.380who aren't fully able to be in control of their own faculties, in which we can have good criteria for recognizing that
00:23:15.860and for helping them and thereby saving the community from the constant interactions that one has.
00:23:24.200I mean, you think of the subway in New York City and so much of the people that are committing violence there or just disruption are clearly not mentally well,
00:23:32.900like the subway shooter not so long ago.
00:24:40.300The soft targets are attractive for a reason to these lunatics.
00:24:44.140And I feel like, and by the way, another thing, just as an aside, is the media has to stop with the constant publication of the names and pictures of the shooters.
00:28:53.260Well, I can't put it better than that.
00:28:57.420Although I am not going to be a judge of people in that situation, but it does seem to me to be just horrifying incompetence and cowardice.
00:31:28.420We do appear to now know the name of the the head officer who made the call to treat this as a hostage situation instead of as an active shooter situation.
00:31:37.660And I have to say, you're more generous than I am, because unlike you, I am willing to judge.
00:32:26.860OK, so, Andrew, let me kick it off with Leah Thomas, the transgender swimmer who's on the UPenn team, who's been breaking records and beating all the biological women.
00:32:42.160She's finally on camera giving an interview now to ABC News, sat down with Juju Chang and had some things to say about her right to swim in women's sports.
00:32:56.060The women who signed the letter anonymously said that they absolutely supported your right to transition, but they simply think it's unfair for you to compete against cisgender women.
00:33:08.000You can't go halfway and be like, I support trans women and trans people, but only to a certain point where if you support trans women as women and they've met all the NCA requirements,
00:33:25.000and then I don't know if you can really say something like that, trans women are not a threat to women's sports.
00:33:39.920One is that I understand and appreciate the situation that Leah Thomas finds herself in, and I don't think this is a ploy or something fake.
00:33:52.220I think it's real, and I want to respect her and her rights in every single respect, and that means 99% of the situations I would support her in.
00:34:04.980There's just like 1% of a few small things like biology, which is incredibly important, in something like sports, in which biology is central.
00:34:15.200So, similarly, I do think that there are questions in which women who've been abused and need to find shelter should have an option to have a shelter for their domestic abuse in a place where there are no people with penises.
00:34:33.080You can have shelters, which have both trans women and women, but I think there should be some options for women who don't want to be in the presence of men, and I would say that also for prison.
00:34:49.880Now, those aren't huge exceptions, Megan.
00:34:52.940They're just a small concession to reality.
00:34:55.300And, look, I have always felt myself to be a big supporter of trans rights, and you know what?
00:35:23.980All that's left is the cultural issue, and the cultural issue, in my view, has been co-opted by the radical left, which has taken hold of what was once the gay rights movement and turned it into something called the LGBTQIA++ movement, which is really an attempt not to grant civil rights to transgender people or to gay people, which has happened,
00:35:51.660but to destroy the sexual binary, because they believe it's somehow oppressive.
00:36:00.560Now, I don't believe the sex binary is oppressive.
00:36:03.660In fact, I think it's kind of liberating in many ways.
00:36:06.080It's oppressive for the tiny proportion of people who have this deep conflict between how they understand themselves and how their bodies are.
00:36:16.320And I understand that, but it's a tiny minority.
00:36:20.660And for the vast majority of people, the sexual binary is, in fact, a fact.
00:36:25.580If we didn't have a sexual binary, there would be no human beings.
00:36:29.200It is integral to our reproductive strategy as a species.
00:36:33.300There are no people who are both men and women.
00:36:36.740There are a tiny number of people who are intersex, but normally you can tell whether they have large or small gametes.
00:36:43.860No one is born with the ability to have sperm and eggs, right?
00:37:41.980We've always had solid gay conservatives and liberals who are not party to this neo-Marxist claptrap.
00:37:50.840And the trouble is the intimidation of those of us who stick up for being gay or lesbian, who are same-sex attracted, not same-gender attracted, has rendered this debate skewed.
00:38:09.020I have to say one good news about this was finally the New York Times ran Michael Powell's piece for Sunday, which is the first time that newspaper has published anything approaching objectivity on this question.
00:38:23.540Previously, it's just been pure propaganda.
00:38:25.680And look, there is and has to be a distinction between trans women and women.
00:38:35.060And women who have always been women, are biologically women, are chromosomally women, are functionally women, have had the experiences of a woman from childhood onwards.
00:38:47.140That distinction between that and someone who's biologically male with all the male nibbly bits, as it were, it's real.
00:40:14.640The great thing about America is if you make the argument, and it makes sense, a majority of people will be fair-minded, and we change the world.
00:40:22.740And now this group of leftists is throwing so much of that goodwill away by being so viscerally hostile to so many people.
00:40:32.620And to bring the debate also down to the children, which is the children should be left alone.
00:40:42.460You have no right to indoctrinate my child with your weird views of biological sex and gender and so on.
00:40:50.400But to hear Leah Thomas tell it, this is really, you know, you're really sort of stuck in the past.
00:40:58.000And that she really doesn't, she doesn't have any advantages over the biological women just because she's lived her entire life as a man, but for the last couple of years.
00:41:09.260Here was a question on, and listen, listen for the term, legacy effects, legacy effects.
00:41:15.980You mean the 20 years as a man, legacy part?
00:41:55.080The range of testosterone for women never overlaps with the range of testosterone for men, period.
00:42:04.620I recommend if people are not aware of the science of this, a terrific book by Carol Hoeven at Harvard, a brilliant professor at Harvard, well-loved, but also isolated now on this.
00:42:17.280Who's just, this is, this is about reality and bone structure, musculature, all these things, the wave of testosterone in the womb, the wave of testosterone at puberty.
00:42:31.540These things dramatically, dramatically alter your perspective.
00:42:35.980That's why every human being can look at another human being and instantly tell they're a man or a woman, instantly.
00:42:43.340Because that's what testosterone does to the body.
00:42:48.160And she is, look, I'm, she's this intelligent person.
00:44:40.300It's being indoctrinated into so many people who really should know better.
00:44:44.260And everyone else is too cowed by fear because the weapon of saying you hate a certain group of people, that weapon, which is a lie, a massive lie.
00:44:54.800I don't, now, some people, I've no doubt, are bigots towards people who are transgender.
00:45:11.160But we don't want to, we don't want to get put gender dysphoric children, children in a position of making decisions about their entire future lives without very, very, very careful mental health monitoring.
00:45:31.700And when they have weird, quote, peer pressure, although it's not a peer, from the adults teaching them, who are pushing them into this.
00:45:40.980And no one can tell me it doesn't happen.
00:45:45.960I witnessed this day after day when he would come home and tell me, and I was probing once I heard the first story, what they say today, what they say today.
00:45:52.840They were pushing it as though they wanted the boys in this all boys school to declare themselves girls.
00:46:00.760This school no longer uses the term sons or boys.
00:46:05.540They just say your student, your student, this, I mean, this is one of the reasons we left.
00:46:10.820Now, wait, I want to stand you by it because there's so much more to get to, including whether you learned that term nibbly bits while you were at Harvard.
00:46:16.600I'm sorry, it just came into my head, that phrase.
00:46:22.740I was just trying to think of something that wouldn't, uh, meat and two veg.
00:46:31.300All right, stand by, because I do want to ask you about that cad Jon Stewart, what happened there, and also Bill Maher pushing back on some of this, because he's been characteristically brave on this issue, I would say, and to his credit.
00:46:43.960Sorry, so stand by, we'll come back right after a quick break, more with Andrew, and then we will come back after that with analysis of the Sussman not guilty verdict.
00:46:53.000John Durham's case against the HRC lawyer, Michael Sussman, fell apart, and the jury saw it, and he was found not guilty.
00:47:02.040Let's talk about Bill Maher, because I know you think this was sort of an important moment, because he's listened to, he's, the left listens to him.
00:47:14.800He has influence with, I think, large swaths of the left still, even though he's not a, he's not a woke leftist, but he's still a leftist.
00:47:22.120He hasn't abandoned his liberal principles.
00:47:23.500I think he considers himself a man without a party currently, like a lot, like a lot of people.
00:47:27.960Anyway, he took on this whole transgender insanity recently on his show.
00:48:17.500Well, I think it misses one other central point here, which is that not just regional, but why has there been over the last 10 years a 5,000% increase in transgender identification among teenage girls, a group previously unheard of in this kind of study?
00:48:38.240And as you say, these kids are being taught, essentially, that if they're lucky, they're trans.
00:48:48.200If they want to be cool, they're trans.
00:48:52.620Now, I want to just say one word about what this does to gay kids.
00:49:17.840And you're putting that terrible idea into this boy's head at an incredibly impressionable age.
00:49:27.420These 80% of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it and turn up to be gay.
00:49:35.380Underneath this is an attack on gay kids.
00:49:37.880And the gay rights movement has been so co-opted by postmodern queer and transgender ideology that they can't see this.
00:49:51.180And I'm telling you, just as there is a big outcry on parents about this confusion of children with, let's face it, postmodern queer theory.
00:52:33.900And we gay people have to say, you do not represent us.
00:52:37.520We want to protect gay kids from this indoctrination, as well as straight kids from this indoctrination.
00:52:43.960And we are defined by the ownership of our own sex.
00:52:47.840The worst thing that was said to me as a kid, when I was at Christmas with my mom and my grandma, and I had a younger brother who was four years old.
00:52:56.060My younger brother was bashing a truck up against the wall.
00:52:58.820And I was sitting in the corner reading a book.
00:53:01.100And my grandmother looked at my mother and looked at the two of us.
00:53:03.180And she said to my mom, well, at least now you have a real boy.
00:53:06.040And do you know what that does to a kid?
00:53:13.540Being told that you're not really a boy?
00:53:55.020There is nothing transphobic about J.K. Rowling.
00:53:57.640That was a good bit of the New York Times piece you referenced where Martina, who I've sparred with online, but I got to give her this point.
00:54:03.580She's like, that's where you're going to go with me.
00:55:26.260Here's just a small clip of what you had to deal with there.
00:55:28.400I think you are not living in the planet most Americans are, which is why this kind of extremism, this anti-white extremism, is losing popular support, is creating a backlash, is going to elect Republicans and undo a lot of the good you think you're doing.
00:55:47.660This is what happens when you don't talk about it.
00:55:50.280This is what happens when white people don't talk about it, is you have racist dog whistle tropes like this that actually perpetuate and perpetuate and perpetuate.
00:56:00.140So, I am, I, I, and I did not come on this, on this show to sit here and argue with another white man.
00:56:07.940That's one of the reasons that we don't even engage with white men at race to dinner.
00:56:13.440So, you know, because quite honestly, if white men were going to do something about racism, you had 400 years.
00:56:47.820Well, Megan, I did it, I was asked 24 hours before, and I did it as a favorite, and I thought, and I was told I would just be one-on-one with, with John.
00:56:56.420So, I was a kind of ambush, but leaving that aside, to go on a television show and to be attacked because of your race and your sex, a dismissal of an entire group of people based upon their race and their sex, the definition of that is bigotry.
00:57:13.940And he gave a platform for that kind of bigotry.
00:57:18.460This woman, by the way, she runs an organization in which women pay her 2,500 bucks to go to dinner to be told how racist they are.
00:58:23.320The history of slavery and segregation is terrible.
00:58:26.080But the idea that's the only thing in America, that America's overcoming of that, you hear them say that no white people did anything for this, even though hundreds of thousands of white people gave their lives in a civil war for this?
00:58:42.160To see nothing of the goodness of America as well as it's obviously darkness?
00:58:50.840And I came here, like so many others, and look at the footfall.
00:58:54.960We didn't come here to join a white supremacy.
00:58:57.860We came here to join the most multicultural, multiracial democratic experiment in the history of humankind.
00:59:03.960And the idea that these people can now turn around and say nothing has changed since the 19th century, it's so ludicrous that it was given an entire New York Times magazine to explain itself.
01:00:29.340I said on the air that I didn't like him and that he wasn't an honest broker and that he hid behind the veil of, I'm a comedian, to offer a lot of bullshit without any accountability.
01:00:41.540And he was upset that I had called him all those things.
01:00:45.160And, of course, I stood by every word and I told him why I thought that.
01:00:48.420And I said, I'll give you three examples off the top of my head of what you've done.
01:00:50.860And with respect to me, because those are the ones that were, you know, in my head when I was talking about I know he's dishonest because he said things about me that I know are not true.
01:00:57.320And he had no answer for why he had misrepresented me so badly on so many occasions.
01:01:39.440They'd have to pay me twenty five hundred bucks to sit and be lectured by her.
01:01:43.340I mean, seriously, I can't imagine the levels of masochism of these people.
01:01:49.020Well, listen, she said after calling you racist after she said because Stuart looks at her like, how are we supposed to talk to these people?
01:01:54.940How are we supposed to, like, talk to somebody who's got these crazy views?
01:01:57.420And she said, well, we have to hold them with grace and compassion after calling you a racist.
01:02:03.320But also the arrogance of this, the idea that I that I that first of all, that I'm a Catholic.
01:02:13.040So I the idea that I don't believe that every person is made in the image of God, regardless of anything, their race, their sex or anything is so fundamental to my worldview.
01:02:22.900That to be brought on television, accused of being a white supremacist like that by the host.
01:02:30.160And it's different things with a guest.