The Megyn Kelly Show - The Robinson-Twiggs DNA Evidence, and Assassination Culture, with Jack Posobiec, Sean Davis, and Sohrab Ahmari ｜ Ep. 1355

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00:01:00.460 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.140 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Day three of the Tyler Robinson

00:01:17.000 preliminary hearing starting later this afternoon. They're getting a late start today.

00:01:21.820 And this afternoon, we are speaking with Jack Posobiec, a dear friend and colleague of Charlie's

00:01:28.020 who's been in court all this week, seeing everything firsthand.

00:01:32.600 And he'll describe to us the dynamic inside that courtroom and how he thinks it's going.

00:01:38.160 But I want to begin with what we learned yesterday about the man accused of murdering

00:01:42.540 Charlie, and that's Tyler Robinson.

00:01:45.160 and the timeline that we're learning about now detailing Robinson's time on campus at Utah Valley

00:01:53.460 University the day Charlie was killed, September 10th of last year. We saw pictures of the man

00:01:59.440 prosecutors say is Robinson for the first time last year as investigators desperately hunted him

00:02:05.960 down. And yesterday in court, we got to see some of the surveillance videos alleged to be of

00:02:12.180 Robinson as he moved about campus. It was the very first time we've seen them. We've seen some

00:02:17.840 still shots from these videos leading up to yesterday, but we have never seen these videos.

00:02:23.340 And, you know, there was a big fight in court because the prosecution has enhanced versions

00:02:30.500 of the videos with zooms and circles, which would be very helpful, wouldn't they? Because these are

00:02:36.640 surveillance videos which you know by their nature are not great and circling where he is

00:02:43.580 even if you don't accept this as tyler robinson circling where they're saying the perpetrator is

00:02:48.900 would be quite helpful but the defense objected so we don't get to see that we didn't we get to

00:02:55.340 see the videos but we don't get to see the prosecution's helpful zooms and circles and

00:02:59.860 here's the judge tony graff explaining why yesterday i don't find it's necessary to replay

00:03:06.100 this video given the representation that's the exact same video the difference being enhancements

00:03:12.660 made um if it was different in any way or if it added to or subtracted from uh that would be one

00:03:20.580 factor but because it's simply the same video simply zooming in with circles or or notations

00:03:27.220 the court does not find that the interests of justice requires it being played again

00:03:32.660 but it is received into evidence and will be reviewed by myself in determining a probable

00:03:40.420 cause determination. And I appreciate that, Judge. And so we're clear. State's exhibit

00:03:45.680 12.1 has been admitted. It is received into evidence, yes. And your intent is to review it

00:03:51.040 in its entirety, but not here in the courtroom. Yes.

00:03:56.360 Well, Utah law enforcement isn't the only group of folks who know how to enhance video.

00:04:02.660 So we did it ourselves for you.

00:04:04.780 And we're going to walk you through what the video showed yesterday so you can see the man alleged to be Robinson more clearly and see the prosecution's case laid out.

00:04:13.060 Here's Sergeant David Hull, who was with the Utah State Bureau of Investigation at the time of the murder, explaining the video they say is Robinson arriving on campus to the prosecutor who was questioning him, David Sturgill.

00:04:26.700 This is a little less than four hours before the shooting took place.

00:04:31.160 Watch.

00:04:32.660 Okay, what are we seeing here, Agent Hall?

00:04:35.120 That's the vehicle that is believed to belong to Mr. Robinson arriving in the parking garage on campus.

00:04:40.780 At what time in the morning?

00:04:41.920 Well, what time of the day?

00:04:43.640 It's approximately 8.30 in the morning on September 10th, 2025.

00:04:48.460 And what leads you to believe that this particular vehicle belongs to Mr. Robinson?

00:04:54.260 Information that was provided in regards to driver's license and Department of Motor Vehicle records.

00:05:01.660 The vehicle fits the description of a vehicle owned by Mr. Robinson.

00:05:05.340 Is there anything unique about that vehicle that stands out to you?

00:05:08.480 The shape of the vehicle is very distinct, but predominantly the wheels were very distinctive on this version of the vehicle.

00:05:16.460 Now what do we see?

00:05:18.520 The driver of the vehicle exits the vehicle and then walks on foot to exit the parking garage.

00:05:23.980 it's the individual in the red t-shirt and the shorts and the shoes

00:05:31.880 and do you believe you recognize who that person is yes who is that i believe that it's tyler

00:05:38.580 robinson you heard it there the police believe that is tyler robinson arriving on campus at

00:05:44.700 8 30 that morning according to sergeant hull the man next went onto the uvu campus and made contact

00:05:51.600 with Turning Point USA representatives

00:05:54.020 in the area where Charlie would soon be gunned down.

00:05:58.140 Just such a chilling fact.

00:06:00.280 I'm sure they thought he was a young student

00:06:02.080 interested in hearing Charlie's message.

00:06:04.440 And I'm sure they happily and willingly gave him

00:06:06.720 the details on exactly what time

00:06:08.420 things would be getting underway.

00:06:09.600 They weren't secret.

00:06:10.720 And how he could best see Charlie.

00:06:14.940 Whatever information he asked for,

00:06:16.800 as long as it was within the bounds of normal propriety

00:06:20.160 for a public appearance,

00:06:21.000 I'm sure they would have given. The whole goal was to be seen. Charlie didn't want to do these

00:06:26.740 events inside where he would have been safer because he wanted the hope of getting the passers

00:06:32.760 by. He wanted his message to reach far and wide for the chance to possibly persuade people over

00:06:39.220 to his point of view peacefully and logically. After that moment, the testimony was that Tyler

00:06:48.000 Robinson, again, the man believed to be, would leave campus again. You can see him on your screen

00:06:52.620 now returning to the parking garage. That's what they say he's doing here, going down the steps

00:06:56.340 back to the parking garage after that hour on campus. It's 9.24 a.m., just under three hours

00:07:01.920 before the shot rang out. The parking garage is just a short walk from the amphitheater area where

00:07:08.100 Charlie was set to speak, the outdoor amphitheater. In other words, the man spent a little less than

00:07:12.540 an hour on campus that morning, clearly scoping out the scene. The prosecution says Robinson then

00:07:18.520 returned to campus again shortly thereafter. Here's Sergeant Hull explaining this next video

00:07:25.620 to Sturgill. Now what have we seen? This is Mr. Robinson returning to the campus on foot

00:07:32.440 from the neighborhood to the northeast. You can see he's wearing the same clothing as in the

00:07:37.900 previous video. And he's carrying a blue backpack. Describe the clothing. It's a maroon-colored

00:07:45.280 t-shirt with gray or olive-colored shorts and then Converse shoes. And what time did he return

00:07:53.200 to campus? Just after 10 a.m. And during this visit, do you know where he goes after he leaves

00:07:59.780 the parking store? Yes, we were able to track his movements on campus. He went to Chick-fil-A

00:08:04.840 in the Sorensen building and purchased some food, sat and ate the food.

00:08:12.380 It's chilling. It's chilling to think about this man having a Chick-fil-A sandwich right before

00:08:20.020 he carried out a horrific assassination, according to prosecutors. And also, you know,

00:08:26.100 for that matter, expected himself to die or possibly get arrested, as his alleged note

00:08:31.800 would later reveal i mean just think about this guy like you you wanted to commit murder on a full

00:08:36.500 stomach what the the man would then go to a wooded area and leave campus again around 11 a.m so this

00:08:46.900 is another about an hour that he's spent on campus this time he came back with a backpack

00:08:51.660 and walks around campus for about an hour and then left campus around 11 a.m.

00:09:01.160 And they don't show us the video of him leaving the campus.

00:09:04.520 But now here he is returning to campus again, this time looking different, different outfit.

00:09:12.160 Watch.

00:09:13.040 You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus?

00:09:15.580 I do, yes.

00:09:16.160 And what do you believe is Mr. Robinson?

00:09:18.920 The shoes are the same, and the images that we have are, from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video, it's the same person.

00:09:34.060 He's noticeably wearing different clothing.

00:09:36.380 He is wearing different clothing, and he also is walking with a gait or a limp in this video.

00:09:43.220 So it's Mr. Robinson coming up the stairs of the parking structure.

00:09:49.040 Again, he seems to be having issues walking.

00:09:53.340 And again, were you able to track Mr. Robinson when he leaves this parking structure?

00:10:01.700 Yes, we were able to.

00:10:04.080 He comes up around Campus Drive, as you can see on the video here.

00:10:08.220 There is a cut through there north of the Loci building, and that's Mr. Robinson coming up the sidewalk.

00:10:15.000 He has the noticeable gait or limp in his walk.

00:10:18.240 and then he moves south across the front of the Losi building.

00:10:24.400 He would be the rear of the two individuals in this particular video.

00:10:29.320 And you watch him walk down the sidewalk.

00:10:33.480 Law enforcement testifying that they were able to continue to track

00:10:36.940 this man's movements and that he next went.

00:10:40.240 That video we just showed you, by the way, was 11.53 a.m.

00:10:43.620 Charlie was shot at 12.23.

00:10:45.220 so they were able to track this man's movements it looks like tyler robinson the police testimony

00:10:52.860 is that it is tyler robinson and um he's back on campus at 11 53 now dressed in jeans and a

00:11:00.760 different shirt has the hat and the sunglasses and the same sneakers as before but unlike before

00:11:05.980 he now suddenly has a limp he had no limp in either of the earlier videos and it does appear

00:11:11.940 there's something down his pant leg and obviously they believe it was the long gun it was the rifle

00:11:17.320 they say he next went to the low c center so i don't know if that's a student center but it's

00:11:23.940 one of the buildings on campus roof and that is where authorities believe robinson fired

00:11:30.020 the single shot that killed charlie kirk watch and what time is this it's just afternoon about

00:11:38.820 1215. What just happened

00:11:41.020 or what did we just see happen?

00:11:42.680 The individual actually kind of

00:11:44.600 rolls over the railing onto the

00:11:46.940 roof of the Lossie building.

00:11:47.880 And again in the

00:11:49.980 top left corner the individual is now seen

00:11:51.780 running across the rooftop of the Lossie

00:11:53.760 building

00:11:54.120 to what would be the southwest corner

00:11:57.440 of the building

00:11:59.460 crouching down and

00:12:01.860 then crawling to the corner of the building.

00:12:07.260 And

00:12:07.740 And this is at what time?

00:12:11.140 Around 12.23.

00:12:13.920 I think the time stamp on the video is 12.22.

00:12:17.600 On the 10th?

00:12:19.360 On September 10th, yes.

00:12:21.160 2025.

00:12:21.700 So we're clear, this is the roof of the Losey building?

00:12:23.860 Correct.

00:12:26.260 Can you still see that individual?

00:12:29.340 Yes, you can, lane prone.

00:12:30.940 And how long is he out there on the edge of the building?

00:12:34.040 um just until the the reported shot was fired at 12 23 and 28 individual then stands up and

00:12:44.180 then moves across the building to the north is that what we're seeing happening right now

00:12:47.660 it is yes they moved behind the the atrium area on the rooftop

00:12:53.280 to the northeast corner where the white triangle is

00:12:56.560 do you see mr robinson now i do yes he's just arriving at the corner of the building

00:13:05.500 what are we seeing now mr robinson lowering and jumping off of the roof of the low feet

00:13:14.360 building onto the grass area and then moving away towards campus drive

00:13:19.240 that figure on the roof then went on the run and we now have video of his car on campus

00:13:27.000 about six hours after the shooting watch this is the intersection of campus drive and 800 south

00:13:34.240 um there's a vehicle attempting to turn right onto campus drive

00:13:37.920 um that's the vehicle that's driven by mr robinson now what do we see that vehicle's

00:13:44.820 now pulling away and heading east on 800 south. Early the next day, technically later that same

00:13:54.340 evening, about 1230 a.m., a local police officer on traffic duty made contact with Tyler Robinson

00:14:01.860 driving that same car, according to Hull. Based on his, quote, cop intuition, this officer ran

00:14:09.080 the license plate of the car that by this point a manhunt was underway. They knew that Charlie had

00:14:14.600 been murdered on their campus earlier that day, 12 hours earlier. And the license plate

00:14:21.120 belonged to Tyler Robinson. So this is the cops telling us that Robinson came back to the scene

00:14:28.860 at 12.30 a.m., 12 hours after he allegedly shot Charlie. According to prosecutors,

00:14:35.220 Robinson had left a note for his trans furry lover, Lance Twiggs, that read, quote,

00:14:40.580 I have the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. Upon finding it, Twiggs

00:14:46.800 texted Robinson back, quote, you weren't the one who did it, right? Robinson replying, I am. I'm

00:14:52.280 sorry. Twiggs asked why, and Robinson texted back, quote, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't

00:14:59.780 be negotiated out. Joining me now for reaction is Jack Posobiec, a senior editor at Human Events

00:15:07.240 and a Turning Point USA contributor

00:15:09.140 and a dear friend of Charlie's.

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00:16:19.740 a licensed insurance agency. Jack, I know you've been sitting there all week. What's that been like

00:16:26.840 and how do you think it's going well hey megan thanks so much for having me on and of course

00:16:32.780 for your extensive coverage of this case and the hearing as we're into it now i i've i struggled

00:16:40.580 to find the words to put it together it's surreal the whole thing is completely surreal when you get

00:16:46.700 to that courthouse and you walk through i mean the security situation is absolutely um is is

00:16:55.320 is absolutely tremendous uh there's uh security from counter snipers up on the roof to drones to

00:17:01.920 uh when don jr was there we had secret service um we have men with long guns we've got swat team

00:17:08.280 inside and outside so you're walking through all of that then the media and then when you get into

00:17:14.280 the room itself the courtroom is actually it's quite small uh there's only about four rows with

00:17:20.420 wooden sort of like church pews where you sit in it's not particularly comfortable and that's the

00:17:28.340 whole gallery so i'm in the front row don jr's over here and then right on the other side it's

00:17:35.620 it's erica charlie's parents and then just in the next row is um tyler robinson's family and again

00:17:45.460 you've just got these SWAT officers all over the place, even inside the courtroom and then

00:17:50.920 sheriffs and the bailiffs up front. And there's media in the jury box right now. And I don't know

00:17:58.480 how much of this you can see on the live stream because I think they put some restrictions on

00:18:02.880 exactly what can be shown. And then there's only a few feet between us and right there is Tyler

00:18:12.340 robinson and he's he's right he's right there and he's been right there the whole time um he hasn't

00:18:18.020 turned back he hasn't um acknowledged uh either charlie's family or even his own family um you

00:18:26.200 know from from their part i would say that just seeing charlie's family go through this they're

00:18:31.660 showing incredible strength and you see erica and charlie's mother just been sitting next to each

00:18:38.140 other, being there for one another and being willing to face down that hell itself and

00:18:45.760 be there going through this.

00:18:48.400 And then also, I would even say that, you know, my heart goes out to to Tyler Robinson's

00:18:53.740 family as well, because their family was also destroyed by this act.

00:18:59.420 And they seem to be they seem to be good people.

00:19:02.820 They did the honorable thing, I think, in watching the news, seeing what happened and

00:19:07.820 then picking up that phone um i haven't i haven't heard them say one word the entire time um very

00:19:14.740 quiet there's you know obvious reasons for that but uh it can't be easy for them but they seem

00:19:20.860 like they seem like good people they seem like honorable people they seem like good american

00:19:25.180 citizens and uh i think they probably never expected to be in a situation where they find

00:19:32.620 themselves now. And so I've just, you know, we're, we're, we're praying for, we're praying for

00:19:38.180 everyone involved in this. I've had my rosary out the entire time. I've actually been saying the

00:19:43.080 rosary during court. I will say I'm not the only one with my rosary out. I'm not going to say who

00:19:48.540 else did that's for them to come out and say, but there's been a lot of prayer and we were doing

00:19:54.760 everything we can to make sure that the Holy Spirit is in that room with us. Thank God. Thank

00:19:59.580 God, that makes me feel better to know that you have that beautiful rosary you gave me one too,

00:20:04.020 which I use all the time in there with you. It just feels like a measure of

00:20:07.720 protection somehow. Who is there for Tyler Robinson? Is it just his parents?

00:20:15.140 I don't know all of his family members. It's clearly his mother and father that I do recognize.

00:20:20.680 And then they do have a number of people with them. I think more than likely extended family.

00:20:25.460 um again there's not much communication because when you're in court you're not you're not talking

00:20:30.700 um they do ask that we you know maintain decorum they ask that we be quiet so and then when we

00:20:36.780 break you know there's sort of an area where they go and there's an area where where we go there's

00:20:41.500 an area where the media and the public go and so it's it's you know not really conducive to

00:20:45.820 any sort of uh back and forth or interaction and uh and the same you know no cell phones actually

00:20:52.960 someone had a cell phone at one point and they were asked to ask to you know take it out and so

00:20:57.120 we do have notepads a number of us and so we're doing what we can to take notes but yeah no no

00:21:02.400 phones or anything like that but yes tyler robinson's family is there in the courtroom

00:21:06.880 as well and again it's it's a very very small space and that's it just adds to how surreal it

00:21:14.080 is because you think about how this had so much impact not on just the lives of the families but

00:21:21.840 on our country and the world. And yet here we all are. And it's just a room. It's just a very

00:21:29.640 small room. Can you describe the moment? Because this is the first moment you, Erica, Charlie's

00:21:37.460 parents, his sister have come face to face with his accused killer. And there was a moment where

00:21:44.060 for the first time you saw this man walk in or you saw his face in person, as opposed to what

00:21:50.920 we've all seen on the air describe that for us so the way the way it was set up was that

00:21:58.340 he was there prior to us coming in um and sitting in a in a light suit there at the defendant's

00:22:08.920 table and he's seems small next to his his legal team um and uh we were standing and a few other

00:22:20.100 people were standing and i think for for a moment we actually you know didn't even realize that he

00:22:24.860 was there and then once we got situated again there's so much security or you're being you

00:22:30.260 know asked to sit down etc and and so we sit down and look over and realize that it's him

00:22:35.720 and and i would say just a just a cold a very cold feeling came over me just a very

00:22:42.080 just I just felt very cold and uh like a like that sense of of cold running up and down your

00:22:53.700 spine and the hairs on the back of your neck go up and glad I had my rosary in that moment

00:23:00.400 and I look over and I see Erica and I see the parents and you know and and they were there

00:23:07.660 they were, they were strong. They had grace. They did not flinch. And they sat down and

00:23:16.420 were had very stern looks on their faces. And it was very obvious that they wanted to see justice

00:23:22.360 done for what happened to their son and husband. The reports were that he was seen laughing with

00:23:32.240 counsel that Erica burst out into tears before the proceeding began, but that he, Tyler Robinson,

00:23:37.320 was seen at various points laughing at counsel table with his lawyers prior to things getting

00:23:43.740 underway. Did you see any of that, Jack? I did, as a matter of fact. And it's something that I

00:23:49.300 noted when it happened. Like I said, there's no discussion in the courtroom. So I didn't even know

00:23:55.560 if anyone else had noticed it. And I didn't realize that it had kind of taken on a life

00:24:00.540 of its own. I later found out that, you know, obviously it was being reported and had gone

00:24:04.100 quite viral but in that moment it was just something that i know they're looking over saying

00:24:08.220 charlie's wife and his mother are here and they're in tears and you're just gonna act like that

00:24:16.800 like even even if you're you know presumption of innocence okay sure but you know that these

00:24:22.940 people lost somebody and you know that there's a human element to this and a human toll and don't

00:24:27.520 you think just maybe have a little bit of respect and basic human decency towards someone else and

00:24:36.920 I got pretty angry when I saw that I'll just say that I got I didn't sit well with me

00:24:42.780 yes it makes me feel that he's a true sociopath you read those text messages you know which the

00:24:50.720 police say are his where he says oh it turns out grandpa's rifle really got it done you know it's

00:24:56.640 it works great after he knows he's he's nearly blown our friend's head off he knows that he has

00:25:04.780 two little children he knows he has a wife who loves him and then when confronted with the family

00:25:09.240 member members whom he's devastated he has the gall to yuck it up in front of them with his

00:25:18.440 lawyers there's something completely inhuman about this behavior i i couldn't agree more it's it's

00:25:25.560 inhuman behavior it's on human behavior and you know i i was surprised too that no you know

00:25:34.140 recognition of his own family that's that's been there in the room his mother and father

00:25:40.000 and you know what we know that's come out is that uh it seemed like they did not have a

00:25:47.260 particularly close relationship i think he'd essentially been kind of thrown out of the house

00:25:52.080 because of the lifestyle and that's been in some of the reporting and i'm sure we'll get more of

00:25:57.060 that when uh when twigs's testimony comes up which we expect to come up either today or tomorrow

00:26:02.360 and um but that being said they're still they are there they have been there every single day and

00:26:08.980 you'd think that on some level if your own mother was in a courtroom there for you right regardless

00:26:16.840 of what you did you know that your mother's there for you because that's a mother's love and you

00:26:21.120 don't even turn around to your own mother i just i i can't i can't square that that's just it's

00:26:29.000 something that's so beyond my experience because you know even at any time in my life where i've

00:26:34.360 you know faltered or made a mistake or anything my mother's always been there for me and i'll tell

00:26:41.200 you what there's the you know you say what you know the media is going to say what they say but

00:26:44.920 the one person that I never, ever want to disappoint is my mother. It's surprising when

00:26:51.780 you think of even Brian Kohlberger, who murdered four University of Idaho students in cold blood,

00:26:59.640 I mean, hacked them to death with a knife, was communicating with his family in the courtroom,

00:27:05.260 was sort of doing loving gestures back and forth to them, was in regular contact with his mom and

00:27:11.100 dad via phone, you know, right after the murders, he called and had a very lengthy call with his

00:27:17.200 mom, like was managed to maintain a relationship, in other words, with the people who raised him

00:27:22.720 and who actually did show up in court for him. And this guy, yeah. And this guy, nothing. So,

00:27:29.740 I mean, it's, it's somewhat eerie. It's eerie. It's hard to understand. All I can think of right

00:27:34.500 now, Jack, is that video that we saw of, of Tyler Robinson, when this first came out of

00:27:39.000 him finding out that he got into a university and he got some sort of a scholarship and his mom

00:27:44.080 filmed it in the way parents do sometimes when their kids get their letters from colleges.

00:27:49.960 And it was like this, she was so celebratory of him. He seemed off. I'm going to say he seemed

00:27:54.620 maybe like he was on the spectrum or something. His response sounded weird. The tonality of it

00:27:59.900 seemed off to me, but she seemed like a loving parent to him in this video. We'll pull it over.

00:28:04.680 We played it months ago. And it's so it's so shocking to me that there there's nothing.

00:28:09.900 No. You've seen no acknowledgement on his part. No.

00:28:13.200 You know, sometimes they do like hearts to each other.

00:28:15.320 We've seen criminal defendants do that. Nothing.

00:28:18.080 I haven't seen a single moment where he's acknowledged his family.

00:28:24.280 And, you know, maybe that's something that they didn't in other hearings.

00:28:29.200 I don't know. But even in this one, you would think that this is such a key moment.

00:28:35.540 The evidence is now being unveiled for the first time. And it's hard. It's very hard.

00:28:41.000 There was one moment where I believe it was Agent Hull came out and, you know, he sort of did that, you know, infamous line where he said, you know, do you see that suspect in the room today?

00:28:55.620 And, you know, he gestured to the defendant. He said, yes, he's right there. It's Tyler Robinson. And then they, they, you know, make that for the record. And that was, I mean, it was just a, you could feel the shockwave, the emotional shockwave hit the entire gallery.

00:29:09.920 and the the weight of that moment uh hit all of us in in the room there's no question and people

00:29:17.000 were breaking down in tears and just no response no reaction no turnaround to see what people were

00:29:26.340 doing um nothing and and i would include as well when the videos were played when the when the the

00:29:33.260 the videos were played too the graphic videos nothing we have that moment such as it is our

00:29:39.540 angle of it here in SOC 22. For the benefit of the record and for thoroughness, if you wish to

00:29:47.120 re-ask that question, you certainly, well, we can see what happens.

00:29:53.780 If I could judge, I'd like to. Would you please point him out and identify something that he is

00:30:00.320 wearing? Yeah, I believe that Mr. Robinson is between Ms. Nestor and other counsel wearing a

00:30:06.080 gray suit, a jacket with a dark tie, and a light-colored shirt.

00:30:10.340 I would ask that the record reflect that Agent Hull has identified the defendant.

00:30:17.020 I have no objection. I mean, I've made my objection already.

00:30:20.200 Okay, I just wanted to check.

00:30:21.780 No, thank you, ma'am.

00:30:22.420 All right. For the purposes of this hearing, I find that Agent Hull has identified Mr. Robinson.

00:30:28.600 Again, this is only for the preliminary hearing.

00:30:31.480 i mean it is something to thank god we have because i think about the nancy guthrie case

00:30:39.120 where this poor woman's been stolen and you know is presumed dead at this point and we have no

00:30:45.440 idea who took her there's not a person to point at there's no this family's gonna have to live

00:30:49.760 likely possibly at least forever more without knowing at least this man thanks to the parents

00:30:55.440 as you point out, is in police custody, is facing justice. Whether you think he did it or he didn't,

00:31:02.020 he's getting his due process, and the jury will be the final arbiters of his guilt or innocence.

00:31:07.680 But thank God, thank God his parents, when they recognized him from the tape, they called their

00:31:13.180 son, they demanded to see pictures of the rifle to see if it was still in his custody, which it

00:31:17.120 wasn't. He claimed he'd been home sick that day and the day before, which the mother didn't believe.

00:31:21.940 and then they talked to him directly about whether he had killed Charlie Kirk and he told them he

00:31:28.160 wanted to kill himself there was obviously a bargain a bargaining going on between them they

00:31:33.180 called that family friend who was a former sheriff's deputy that man came over and what the

00:31:39.780 parents reported was that he convinced Tyler Robinson to turn himself in and to to do it at

00:31:45.520 the police station so that the police didn't have to search his parents home you know he pitched it

00:31:50.160 to him as a way of protecting his family. This would be the honorable thing to do. And he did.

00:31:55.520 And there's been testimony in this trial, Jack, that they did not know who the perpetrator was

00:31:59.860 before Tyler Robinson contacted them and turned himself in, that he was the one who first made

00:32:04.680 himself identifiable to them. Let's talk for a minute about the evidence. Has there been a

00:32:11.180 moment in the court that you've found especially compelling one way or the other? Well, I think

00:32:17.440 it's more of the process of the evidence that, you know, it, and they're, they're going through

00:32:23.000 it in a very methodical, but very relentless manner where they walk you through. So we started

00:32:29.740 with the, and you can see what they're doing chronologically speaking, where first they start

00:32:34.740 with the officer who was working that day. He was on top of the hall of flags. He reported what he

00:32:40.720 saw. Then they worked through the evidence from his perspective. Then they brought up the case

00:32:44.900 agent now they're getting into the investigation of the cameras and what the cameras see and the

00:32:51.220 cameras saw these objects okay these objects were later found what was found on those objects okay

00:32:56.260 dna with the dna matched and were there exclusions and then so we're going through all of that and

00:33:01.300 it it's laborious it's it's grueling while you're especially when you're you know hearing this this

00:33:07.200 two and a half hour argument over whether or not dna science is real like this filibuster that

00:33:12.220 happened yesterday but when you actually just look at the the nuggets of evidence again and again

00:33:18.280 and again they're building their case and they are building the scaffolding of a very very strong case

00:33:25.720 against tyler robinson uh one thing that just kind of popped in my head and i know everyone keeps

00:33:31.460 asking about this you know the the chick-fil-a um uh and and agent hole brought up that he got

00:33:37.240 the Chick-fil-A beforehand. And on one hand, you think, how can someone just eat a Chick-fil-A

00:33:44.820 before you go and do something like that? And my gut reaction was revulsion. But then my prior

00:33:53.140 intel officer side kicked in. I thought, wait a minute, if he purchased Chick-fil-A, then that's

00:34:00.000 something you can corroborate. If he used a card or if he used cash, then you could go to that

00:34:06.200 chick-fil-a uh outlet or you could go to the credit card statement and now you can begin the

00:34:11.180 process of corroborating is that person that we see on video buying the chick-fil-a at this time

00:34:17.160 does that match up to a financial transaction same with the car if he got gas which i assume

00:34:22.640 we're going to get very shortly um is you know cell phone metadata it's very clear by the way

00:34:27.620 that there was something that agent hull said that we tracked him to that area later in the day and

00:34:33.340 And that's where they got that new ring camera footage, or I guess Nest camera footage, of the Challenger driving up in the middle of the night.

00:34:40.640 And reading between the lines, it was pretty clear they had checked his phone to be able to know, to ask for that specific house at that specific time.

00:34:48.320 So it seems to me that they're building a very multi-layered, multi-tiered case against him in a sense where, you know, you just mentioned Brian Koberger, where it seems like there's a lot more evidence in this case than there was against Koberger because there you didn't have all the video.

00:35:07.660 you didn't have the eyewitnesses you didn't have family members and all of these other pieces you

00:35:13.220 had uh you had the cell phone you had i think you know uh uh fingerprints you know on some sightings

00:35:19.920 of the car that was really it right and and that was that was pretty much it whereas this case

00:35:25.880 you've got a lot more to deal with you certainly didn't have an alleged confession and there the

00:35:31.960 most damning evidence against skull burger was that knife sheath and his touch dna being found

00:35:36.400 on the sheath. But of course, had they gone to trial and there had been nothing else,

00:35:40.080 they could have argued he went to the gun store or the knife store and he touched that. How can

00:35:44.140 you prove that he was the one holding the knife sheath when the murders were committed? It was

00:35:48.580 all the other evidence. And yes, I did notice as they released the longer video of who they say

00:35:55.520 is Tyler Robinson coming back to campus with the jeans on now with the newfound limp, which it

00:36:02.280 seems very clear. He's got something down the right leg of his pants, um, that it looks like

00:36:06.700 there's a cell phone in his pocket. In fact, we froze the frame and have it here where we zoomed

00:36:11.060 in on it. To me, it looks like obviously the, the outline of his cell phone. Do we have it? Can we

00:36:15.980 put it on the board, please? Um, where it seems obvious that he not only had his cell phone as

00:36:21.500 every young person does, but that he was, he was carrying it as he committed the crime, because

00:36:27.320 this is him coming back to allegedly commit the crime. This is right before. And so if he had

00:36:32.840 that cell phone on him while he committed the crime, then they're going to know a lot from

00:36:36.300 that phone. I agree, but I have also heard a theory posited that that might be the buttstock

00:36:45.600 of the rifle. And that what you're looking at is, in fact, the buttstock of the rifle. And that's

00:36:54.560 why he has that limp because he's got the rifle sort of in between his pants and his shirt and

00:37:00.560 that's how he's concealing it but it seems very clear that he's got a cell phone on him somewhere

00:37:05.560 and the the car too i mean in the alec murdoch case the car data and i don't know how recent

00:37:14.820 his dodge challenger was but you know if you looked at my car right now which is a 2025 or

00:37:21.940 24 model, it would tell you everything about me. The car can reveal how fast you went, where you

00:37:27.380 went, whether you slowed down, whether you sped up, what buttons you were pressing. They can merge

00:37:33.600 it with the cell phone now to see whether you were on the cell phone while you were speeding.

00:37:37.560 We've seen that being done in accidents. So both of those two things, neither of which is on the

00:37:42.040 evidence list for this hearing because they don't need it. This isn't the full, this isn't the real

00:37:46.100 Magilla. This is just, just got to show enough to show he probably did it. So the prosecution's

00:37:51.140 not going to show all of their cards, though they're showing a lot. Let's talk about the DNA

00:37:55.900 because this made a bunch of headlines yesterday because they found the towel that the gun was

00:38:01.680 wrapped in. They found the gun in the woods and they found it wrapped in a towel. And they also

00:38:06.400 found a screwdriver on the roof of the Losey building from which they believe the shot was

00:38:11.840 fired. And they had, the prosecution had a DNA expert testify about the DNA found on those items.

00:38:21.680 And it was revealed for the first time that not only was Tyler Robinson's DNA on those items,

00:38:26.480 but so was the DNA of Lance Twiggs, the trans furry roommate who we expected to testify by

00:38:33.120 videotape again, either later today, they were hoping it would happen yesterday. So I'm hopeful 0.90

00:38:37.400 it'll happen today. If not, then tomorrow we, we think, um, and people were running with a report

00:38:43.800 that it was predominantly Lance twigs DNA on this towel and this screwdriver, which would be

00:38:50.940 potentially a game changer in the case. That's not what was testified to here is what was testified

00:38:56.960 to setting the record straight on some misinformation that's out there. Watch.

00:39:01.700 You stated, I believe that the minor sample, the minor contributor was less than 20%

00:39:06.220 and that it was actually 5% and the ratio was 5% to 95%?

00:39:11.680 For one of the samples, yes.

00:39:13.140 Do you remember that?

00:39:14.020 Yes.

00:39:14.300 Does that mean the 5% was from twigs and the 95%? 0.81

00:39:19.980 That 95% is assumed from the Robinson?

00:39:27.360 When I calculate the statistic, 0.63

00:39:30.600 twigs' DNA profile aligned with the 5% contributor

00:39:33.980 and Mr. Robinson's DNA profile aligned better with the 95% contributor.

00:39:39.180 Okay.

00:39:39.760 Same question with regard to eight.

00:39:41.700 I think you said the ratio was 11% from the minor and 89% from the major.

00:39:47.280 Is that twigs being the 11% and Robinson being the 89%?

00:39:54.000 Yes.

00:39:54.540 Twigs better aligned with that 11% contributor

00:39:57.580 and Mr. Robinson better aligned with that 79% contributor.

00:40:01.120 just to correct myself that was a defense witness they they called their own forensic witness who 0.62

00:40:07.620 had done examinations in this case because she wasn't going to be able to testify later so she

00:40:12.520 kind of came during the prosecution's case your thoughts on all that jack yeah and i actually this

00:40:18.260 is my notes from in the the courtroom as well and so item seven that they're talking about if i have

00:40:24.720 this correctly, is the towel. And then item eight is the screwdriver. So the major contributor,

00:40:33.180 Tyler Robinson, is the 95%. The minor is 5%. That's the towel. And then 89%, 11% on the

00:40:43.440 screwdriver. Now, the reason that, so this was the FBI DNA tech out of Quantico. The reason that

00:40:50.480 we're not hearing yet about any touch DNA that was found on the rifle was because that was sent

00:40:55.340 to the ATF labs. That would have been a different lab, a different technician that would come

00:41:00.900 forward to discuss that, which I believe we will be getting at some point as well. So we're going

00:41:06.180 to have another one of these sort of DNA days. But this idea, of course, that they were roommates,

00:41:13.560 you know, had towels that, you know, had shared DNA from touch DNA or, you know, just towels that

00:41:19.500 are that are in the same bathroom that's that's something that's pretty common i think

00:41:23.180 screwdrivers as well obvious reason that that would be a common uh a common piece of the uh

00:41:29.580 you know something that would be shared a common item one thing that i did not find that was

00:41:33.620 interesting was that mcbride uh who was the the prosecutor mr mcbride uh he's he's the star of

00:41:39.440 the day as far as i'm concerned in terms of just his clarity and his ability to get the message

00:41:44.820 across the same way he fought for one of the affidavits earlier regarding uh some of the

00:41:50.300 turning point mission that he he pointed out that there's degradation potentially if something is

00:41:57.560 left exposed to the elements and it took me a second to realize to wonder why does he keep

00:42:03.080 bringing up degradation then he realized oh because he's talking about the fact that one of these was

00:42:07.280 left on a rooftop exposed to uvu it was a sunny day so excuse me exposed to uv light so it's a

00:42:13.060 sunny day at UVU. And then the other was left in a, uh, in a wooded area. So even for several hours

00:42:20.020 was exposed to the elements as well. And it seemed to me that he was, he was kind of working

00:42:24.920 his way to lay the foundation to tie that together. Jack, something that's confused me

00:42:29.820 about this case, since we first started getting glimpses of screen grabs from the videos is what

00:42:36.920 if you know, and it may not have been discussed yet, or you may not know, but what is the theory

00:42:44.020 about how the gun was transported there and, and, and away from there? Because they show him

00:42:51.540 returning to campus in the long pants. And it looks like he's got the long gun down the right

00:42:56.560 leg, which is why he has the limp, but he has the backpack on him. And then we see him get onto the

00:43:04.360 roof. We, assuming it's Tyler Robinson, as I say, see him get onto the roof and we're told he fires

00:43:09.140 the fatal shot and then runs across the roof and has the gun still. And by the way, we believe

00:43:15.080 the, we believe the screwdriver was necessary to assemble the gun, but if he had the gun down his

00:43:21.540 pants, why would he need to assemble it on the rooftop? And then why, when he ran after the

00:43:27.280 shooting, would the gun remain assembled, which it appeared to be as he jumped off the side and

00:43:32.460 then it was found assembled that's my information in the woods he didn't disassemble it or stuff it

00:43:39.280 into a backpack so do we understand anything about how the gun was or was not assembled what

00:43:46.520 the screwdriver was for and what he did with the gun there was um there's a youtuber and i have to

00:43:52.760 give a shout out to him named matt kester who's actually done some really really good reconstructions

00:43:58.000 on this because he's been trying to answer that same question something that i uh certainly have

00:44:03.200 thought about over the last 10 months and he put together a pretty compelling um i guess

00:44:09.280 reconstruction where he took the two pieces of the mauser the the stock and then the barrel

00:44:16.940 separated them and he found uh i guess a friend who's pretty much the same build as tyler robinson

00:44:23.340 and put the stock down one side of the pant leg and then the barrel down the other and said, look,

00:44:29.920 if you disassemble this into the two major pieces, then so the barrel would have the scope on it,

00:44:36.860 that it's actually concealable underneath the clothing without even needing to use the backpack.

00:44:43.620 So the backpack could just be the other set of clothes. And then they showed as this individual

00:44:48.960 was walking up and down the stairs or just walking back and forth he had the exact same sort of

00:44:55.100 stilted gait and limp that we see tyler robinson have but he's still able to bend his knee move up

00:45:02.500 the stairs so it may have been that the gun was disassembled he gets up to the roof and and by

00:45:08.140 the way i've gone to the um the campus now uh and walked this very same area the stairwell

00:45:13.900 gone up to the roof part of it's blocked off now but got as close as we could to the area

00:45:18.180 it's very accessible this is a uh a campus that's built into the side of a a hilly area there off of

00:45:24.800 utah lake and so there's stairwells and walkways all out all open to the public it's very very easy

00:45:31.320 to access this area and so he gets on the roof then assembles the gun so puts the two pieces

00:45:38.860 back together of the rifle, uses the screwdriver, and it's very quick, kind of like field stripping.

00:45:44.840 So a very quick way to reassemble it only takes about 35 seconds and fires the shot. And then

00:45:51.280 after firing the shot, drops the screwdriver, or perhaps forgets that it's up there, presumably,

00:45:57.860 then runs away with it still assembled, and we find it still assembled. So that's the best theory

00:46:04.920 that I've seen on this and seems to fit the facts as they lay.

00:46:10.260 We actually have some of that Matt Kester video demonstrating part of what you just said.

00:46:15.960 We'll look at it now, SOP 41.

00:46:18.220 You remember that image of the gigantic cell phone sitting right here on the thigh?

00:46:22.200 That's your stock.

00:46:23.520 That explains why the leg motion cannot come forward because it's completely locked in.

00:46:29.100 and if you see i'll put the video or the image up on the screen in the photo you can start to see an

00:46:36.540 outline of the stock okay this has solved the riddle that has been bugging me the whole time

00:46:41.780 about the bulk of the stock essentially i believe now with 90 something percent certainty that the

00:46:48.840 stock was carried this way and the barrel was carried on the side now whether or not the scope

00:46:54.520 came off or not that's an item for debate and we can talk about the ramifications of that later

00:46:59.360 but i think with certainty you're fair not you can't be certain about anything but i

00:47:03.840 i think as close as we can be to certain this is how this was carried

00:47:08.120 that's why he i think he hooked it underneath his armpit yeah kept his arms straight down

00:47:18.820 because if you see when he walks he doesn't have his hands in pockets they're out keep your hands

00:47:22.240 out. All right. Now walk towards model walking. Yeah. It's a similar gate. It's, it looks like

00:47:41.400 somebody who has lost the full use of their right leg, which is how Tyler. I find that. I find it

00:47:46.960 very compelling. I find it very compelling. Yeah. Well, and on top of that, there's been

00:47:51.880 a debate about whether it would have required some special skill by Tyler Robinson to get

00:47:57.220 onto the roof. Um, that too seems like it was very easy. Brian Enten reporting for News Nation,

00:48:04.400 he went and did it and filmed himself doing it. And here's that video.

00:48:10.220 The, um, courtyard where the shooting happened is right back there, but this is all, you know,

00:48:15.440 public area where people walk around. If you just go up these stairs right here, I'm going to walk

00:48:20.660 up the stairs. You're suddenly up here. This is a, this is a walkway here. Okay. So you can get

00:48:32.560 between buildings here. Um, and on this side, it's now gated off. This was not gated off before

00:48:41.280 the Charlie Kirk assassination, but it is now gated off. Basically what investigators say

00:48:47.260 Tyler Robinson did is this gate wasn't here. So he just walked right over to that short little

00:48:51.800 gate that you see over there, that more permanent gate. And then all you had to do is just go right

00:48:57.020 on top of that, which would anybody could do. It would just take a second and then walk out on the

00:49:02.320 roof. And right over there on the edge would be a direct view, just the perfect line of sight to

00:49:09.860 where charlie kirk was speaking so very easy and the only acrobatics required would have been

00:49:17.680 jumping off the roof and running and we've all seen that video with our own eyes clearly it

00:49:23.420 wasn't much of a challenge no it wasn't and and we uh just got to see brian the other day and i

00:49:29.400 thanked him for all the work that he's been doing out here he's been here every day as well uh doing

00:49:35.120 his reporting and we went as well i went with my team to that same area and did the walkthrough

00:49:40.680 and in fact one piece that i guess i would add is that so we started right where charlie's tent was

00:49:47.360 and then just walked from the tent all the way back to the sniper perch and i would say we made

00:49:56.160 it there in about five minutes uh this is a very small area and i think it's something that on

00:50:02.100 video, you just don't quite see how small it is and how compact of an area it is. It's sort of

00:50:08.660 this fishbowl amphitheater. And so, you know, while you were going through and indicating the

00:50:15.000 different buildings, the low sea side of the Sorensen, it's all connected. All the buildings

00:50:18.820 are interconnected. And again, it's just very small. So the idea that it would be hard to get

00:50:24.780 up there is, you know, it's just not true. It just doesn't comport with the facts. This is a very

00:50:30.000 small area. It's very easy to get up there and it's designed to be able to have access to those

00:50:35.100 roofs and those walkways. And of course we have only to ask ourselves why do they think they

00:50:41.920 didn't think of that, you know, uh, why the security didn't plan for that. We were told

00:50:47.860 that the local police had assured the turning point security that they were covering it. Um,

00:50:54.120 They weren't. They didn't. And they have only regrets now when they think about that security

00:51:01.480 plan. Jack, we'll check back in with you as this thing goes on. Thanks so much for being there and

00:51:06.040 for coming on today. Thank you so much, Pink. And I really appreciate it. And we all appreciate your

00:51:10.400 coverage. Lots of love to you and everybody out there. Coming up next, Saurabh and Sean are here

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00:53:11.440 Just want to spend a little bit more time

00:53:14.020 on this Tyler Robinson hearing

00:53:15.100 because this all leads to the obvious question

00:53:18.440 that I raised right before we said goodbye to Jack,

00:53:20.580 which is why wasn't the roof covered?

00:53:25.740 Why wasn't the roof being protected and patrolled?

00:53:28.680 why 14 months after Butler was Charlie so exposed

00:53:33.780 like a sitting duck down below.

00:53:36.580 And we do know some of the answers around that.

00:53:40.960 I have spoken to Turning Point myself directly.

00:53:44.060 I did right after Charlie was killed.

00:53:46.180 And they were asking those same questions.

00:53:48.960 And they were told by Charlie's security team

00:53:52.900 that the UVU cops said they had it,

00:53:59.320 that the UVU cops said

00:54:00.960 that they would be patrolling the rooftop.

00:54:02.800 And we heard testimony to that effect

00:54:05.680 exactly from the head of Charlie's security team

00:54:09.880 at Turning Point USA,

00:54:12.700 a man named Brian Harpool,

00:54:14.700 who went on with Sean Ryan

00:54:17.620 and showed the text exchanges

00:54:20.140 between himself and the chief of the uvu police force according to harpool and here is what

00:54:30.100 brian harpool told sean ryan here's how him describing it we have some correspondence with

00:54:36.400 the chief of the school uh on that day on monday before charlie was killed and why this hadn't come

00:54:44.700 out. And why he won't stand up like a man and admit this, I don't know. But he's watching a

00:54:51.460 bunch of men lose their careers. And he's okay with it. On Monday before, this correspondence

00:55:00.660 went to Chief Long. Hello, Chief Long. We received this message today from the student group.

00:55:07.020 There is a student roof access pretty close to where CK will be set up at the Utah Valley,

00:55:13.560 the Sorensen Center, has a couple of staircases that go up to walkways on the roofs.

00:55:20.080 He comes back, and for edification, the Sorensen Center was the building in front of the Lucy Center.

00:55:27.480 And so he comes back and says, you want access to the roof.

00:55:33.320 And came back and said, I was told students have access above us.

00:55:38.320 if this is true, it would be nice to either have it controlled access or allow one of my guys to

00:55:46.960 be there as well, if possible. He comes back and his last correspondence was, I got you covered.

00:55:55.220 what else am i to do when a command level

00:56:04.760 a person from an accredited police department says i've got this area

00:56:11.160 jeez have you been in con who was that that was the chief of police for the uvu police department

00:56:20.960 We've called him.

00:56:21.980 He's never called us back. 0.99

00:56:23.300 Holy shit. 0.99

00:56:26.840 I mean, it's chilling. 0.99

00:56:30.300 And I'd love to hear from that man directly.

00:56:34.580 I'm sure he sleeps very poorly at night,

00:56:38.640 asking himself why he didn't have it covered after all.

00:56:43.100 There's a separate question of whether that excused Brian Harpool.

00:56:48.160 and the Turning Point security team

00:56:51.600 from making sure it was covered

00:56:54.580 because they ultimately were responsible

00:56:57.000 for Charlie's security.

00:56:58.400 My own view on it, having met a bunch of those guys,

00:57:00.820 I don't think I've met him,

00:57:03.700 is that any one of them would have happily

00:57:07.080 given their life to protect Charlie,

00:57:08.980 absolutely would have given their life

00:57:10.540 in a heartbeat to protect Charlie.

00:57:12.040 it I think this guy trusted the wrong group of people and I don't know you know I've asked

00:57:22.480 various members of my own security team about this sound but it's been out there for months

00:57:26.620 um just you know shooting the breeze saying what did you make of that after the interview came out

00:57:32.260 like do you think that's an okay stance do you think he's got a point and I have to tell you

00:57:37.960 I have yet to find the security person who thinks, what am I to do when the guy says he's got it

00:57:45.580 covered? Pretty much everybody, and maybe it's just 2020 hindsight, says, no, you make sure

00:57:50.420 when you're the one getting paid to protect a principal, it's your job to make sure everything

00:57:56.980 is covered and you follow up and you make sure in 14 months after Butler, you make super sure

00:58:02.260 about the roofs. And I believe that. I believe that because the first question virtually all

00:58:09.140 of us asked after Charlie was killed was how could, how could he be killed from the roof 14

00:58:12.700 months after Butler? How, how could the roof be left unprotected? You know, and it looks like he

00:58:19.260 did think of it. The team did think of it and they trusted where they shouldn't have. That's

00:58:26.000 how it looks to me. Um, I'm not an expert, not a security expert. I just know what I saw and it's

00:58:33.720 heartbreaking because again, these guys are in the business of protection and I know they loved

00:58:37.420 Charlie. I know they did. And I know I saw them days after this happened and not again, not him

00:58:42.340 again, but the guys I saw were absolutely distraught, um, over what had happened to him.

00:58:49.120 So it's just so unfortunate. And look, it's, it's, it's not about, you know, that Charlie's

00:58:54.920 death was caused by his killer by his killer but anybody who's ever been exposed to a security

00:59:01.080 threat had questions about how he was so exposed you know myself included as his friend and as

00:59:07.580 somebody who has her own security threats um you know and charlie and i had spoken about the

00:59:12.380 security threats that we were facing so it's just it's chilling to me you know that one one did come

00:59:19.660 to fruition in his life i keep thinking about erica telling me about how he didn't sleep well

00:59:24.620 the night before and she said he got up and Charlie, so Charlie, he got a snack. She said he

00:59:31.300 had a banana and olives. Charlie was so wholesome. He was so wholesome. At Charlie's presidential

00:59:38.160 medal of freedom ceremony, she talked about how Charlie would only have ice cream, I think she

00:59:43.020 said twice a year, it was either once a year or twice a year, but the one, I think once was on

00:59:47.080 his birthday and the other time was on the 4th of July. He would allow himself some ice cream. He

00:59:51.580 was just so wholesome. He was so committed to wellness, mental, spiritual, emotional, and

00:59:58.300 physical. And you do wonder whether he had some sort of a premonition before that event that,

01:00:05.420 you know, his wellness was in jeopardy. We'll continue to follow it today. We expect in two

01:00:12.840 hours now. The hearing will resume out in Provo, Utah. And we do believe, though it's not guaranteed

01:00:22.480 that the Lance Twiggs video testimony will happen today. As a reminder, we are streaming the whole

01:00:27.640 thing live on our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. So you can watch it there

01:00:32.120 and rest assured if that happens, or no matter what happens, we will have full coverage of the

01:00:35.980 hearing and what happens this afternoon on our regular program tomorrow, as well as a deep dive

01:00:41.380 on this Lance Twiggs that we've been working on for a while. In the meantime, I want to continue

01:00:48.100 on and bring in our panel joining us today. We've got a lot of other news. We've got Graham Plattner,

01:00:53.560 whose political campaign is continuing its downward spiral. Reports now are that he could

01:00:58.540 be dropping out at any moment. Expect it. And by the way, the ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran,

01:01:04.260 it's over, at least according to President Trump. He's now calling the Iranians sick people and 0.93

01:01:10.360 liars and, um, threatening more bombing. Uh, so it's not great here to break it all down is Sean 0.99

01:01:17.780 Davis. He's CEO and co-founder of the Federalist and Saurabh Amari is here as well. The U S editor

01:01:23.260 for unheard Sean, Saurabh, welcome back. Great to have you guys. Good to be here. You know,

01:01:29.540 I know you guys have been covering to some extent what's happening out in Provo and Sean, that is,

01:01:35.340 it's like the whole thing is just so chilling you know it's like we all cover legal cases all the

01:01:40.700 time we cover crime and this one is just it just has so many different layers to it because it was

01:01:47.140 our friend it was Charlie everyone knew him even the audience listening now felt very much like

01:01:52.220 they knew him he was a regular guest on this program and it is tough to get immediately past

01:01:57.860 questions like why wasn't the roof patrolled you know it's not to take anything away from the actual

01:02:03.940 killer, but it's just, you know, conservatives are being killed and they're being threatened 0.97

01:02:09.460 and that these crazy leftists are celebrating it. And you think about the next one and the next one 0.99

01:02:15.800 after that, and this assassination culture that's taking too many of ours. And, you know, you don't

01:02:21.560 want to see it take anybody, but how we shore up the protection around our public figures like

01:02:29.420 charlie who was literally irreplaceable is obviously on the mind of many so your thoughts

01:02:35.100 on all of it yeah and i'm so glad you brought that up because i feel like it's gotten lost in a lot of

01:02:40.140 the you know examining all the details in the trial and everything sora ever and i were we're

01:02:44.560 talking about this uh off camera before the show and you know talking about threats we have to deal

01:02:50.400 with and it to me it's absolutely unconscionable and it's not talked about nearly enough that if

01:02:55.600 you are a Christian, if you're a conservative or a Republican, you walk out your door every day

01:02:59.960 wondering if someone's going to try and kill you. You walk out the door every day, you go to an

01:03:03.820 event, and you wonder if someone's going to try and kill you and kill your family. You talked 0.53

01:03:07.660 about it yourself. You have a security team. We all have security teams. We all have to be thinking

01:03:11.660 through every last little thing. We have to micromanage every aspect of our security. We

01:03:18.160 have to start asking questions that no one should have to ask about security at hotels or conferences

01:03:23.260 or things like that. I never hear this conversation among people on the left anymore.

01:03:28.300 They are not walking around worrying if if somebody who's hopped up on hormones and

01:03:33.320 trans surgery is going to try and kill them. This seems to be a threat that is completely isolated

01:03:38.040 to those of us on the right. And thank you for bringing it up, because it's totally unacceptable.

01:03:45.120 And yet it's been utterly normalized. I don't know how we get back from it.

01:03:49.780 But you talked about Butler.

01:03:51.920 They tried to kill Trump.

01:03:53.220 They killed Charlie.

01:03:54.500 Instead of everyone getting together after that and saying, hey, we have a real problem

01:03:58.140 with political violence on the left in this country, everyone's devolved down into conspiracy

01:04:02.120 theories on the far right.

01:04:04.400 Oh, Tyler didn't do it.

01:04:06.240 This country did it.

01:04:07.460 Meanwhile, on the left, they tell us that, oh, actually, it was a right winger who did

01:04:11.400 it and it's good that it happened.

01:04:13.040 This is a horrible environment that we are in politically right now where these are the

01:04:17.720 the terms of conversation and these are the things we're talking about. It's an utter tragedy. And

01:04:22.540 what I find so frustrating, disheartening is I don't know where we go from here. I don't know

01:04:26.680 how we get back to where we can just disagree over things without wishing everyone who disagreed 0.82

01:04:31.340 with us got killed or is dead. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I can't tell you the number of conversations I've

01:04:37.400 had over the past year before that too, but especially since Charlie, as the death threats

01:04:41.900 have escalated exponentially about fortifying every single area of our lives, every single area,

01:04:48.580 any place I go, any place I'm going to be, certainly any place we've announced publicly,

01:04:53.280 just in case somebody wants to kill me for my opinions, right? Like that's what we're talking

01:04:58.900 about right here. That's what Charlie's issue was. We're not public officials. We haven't run

01:05:03.800 for office. We're not elected leaders. I'm not saying that makes it better, but it's not a new

01:05:09.020 thought that like a president might be the subject of an assassination attempt. But we're we're

01:05:14.340 podcasters. You know, we're we're media. We're journalists. This is so bizarre. So why would

01:05:20.100 somebody want to kill you, Sean Davis or you, Saurabh Amari or me, Megan Kelly, for our opinions?

01:05:25.740 That's why for our opinions, it's we've crossed over to a truly bizarrely dangerous

01:05:31.000 way of living where this is just accepted. And 90% of journalists do not have the resources

01:05:39.600 to even employ a security team. Most journalists don't make a lot of money.

01:05:46.360 That would be an impossibility to surround themselves with the appropriate team.

01:05:51.020 Even Charlie, you know, he had a team because he was with Turning Point, but it's a non-profit,

01:05:54.480 you know, it's like there were limits. Even I was mistaken to think that Charlie had a

01:05:58.940 bulletproof vest on. Even when I went out and I hosted his show with the Turning Point crew,

01:06:04.120 I sat there with them. They were the ones who told me Charlie was not wearing a bulletproof vest.

01:06:07.860 He was relying on that team to protect him. And even they couldn't give him presidential level

01:06:13.840 protection because he's he was a civilian. You know, he was one of us.

01:06:18.900 Yeah, the failure here, which you highlighted, is the fact that I don't think the TPUSA security

01:06:28.040 team. Because when you go to a police chief, and you say, hey, like, we're concerned about this

01:06:32.900 particular area, and he says, I've got you covered. That's pretty definitive. And as you said,

01:06:40.420 Megan, if I were in the shoes of his security team, I would go to bank with that reliably. So

01:06:45.220 here's a, you know, a credible police officer saying, don't worry, I've got that. And that

01:06:50.140 ends up being the precisely the area from which the assassin operated, I do think. So that's a

01:06:56.400 kind of failure of just just the idiocy right uh but there's a long way from that to some of the 0.96

01:07:04.880 conspiracy theories that were circulated on the hard right where it was like the egyptian and 0.97

01:07:10.380 israeli governments and all this stuff right like we yeah the the threats that we face um although

01:07:17.300 i have to say i don't have a security team but uh are much more banal and it's this kind there's this 0.88

01:07:23.120 specific type of what I call trans involved, lefty, crazy person. And he, you know, Tyler 0.61

01:07:30.700 Robinson, the alleged assassin fit that profile. There were others. There was the sort of school

01:07:35.800 shooter, Catholic school in Wisconsin. I don't know if you guys remember that case, less,

01:07:39.560 less remembered, of course, but yes, that's, that's really the profile. That's really the

01:07:45.980 profile. Often there is marijuana leftist. Yeah. Marijuana used a combination of marijuana use

01:07:52.320 sort of strange sexual attractions and ideology. And so I think that's a more productive area for

01:08:00.980 the right to like talk about than, you know, conspiracy theories, to be honest.

01:08:07.120 Well, you know, what I was saying after Charlie died, and I think everyone went a little crazy.

01:08:13.660 I just think like watching our friend get assassinated really did a number on many people.

01:08:18.340 I just like I haven't felt totally myself since, you know, I feel like I've been a little off since and I can see it in a lot of friends.

01:08:26.860 But I think many people reverted to their priors, you know, like people who had been openly fighting with Israel and Israel defenders really wanted to investigate that angle because Charlie was drifting from the Israeli cause, was expressing privately in group chats his consternation with Jewish donors who were leaning on him not to abandon Israel, not to question Israel.

01:08:53.340 right so they revert to their priors you know we i think i speak for all three of us have done a lot

01:08:59.560 of coverage on this the radical trans tifas out there who have all who start with the screw loose

01:09:07.440 and then in some cases add drugs to it or like obsessive gaming which communities can be actually 0.64

01:09:13.280 disturbing or you have layer in the furry thing which actually is also very sick and we've seen

01:09:19.860 that erupt in violence, not to mention SSRIs, which become a common thread in a lot of these. 0.96

01:09:24.920 And who do they take aim at? People like us, people like Charlie. So it's like, I'm not,

01:09:30.320 I'm not surprised at all. You know, I mean, the day after Charlie was murdered, that's exactly

01:09:35.700 where I went. I thought it was over the trans stands. And I went on the air and said, just so 1.00

01:09:41.740 you know, a man cannot become a woman. A woman cannot become a man. There's no such thing as a 1.00

01:09:46.460 trans child, you know, and said, you can't stop all of us. Like, well, if this is what this is, 0.99

01:09:51.420 is this is who killed him. You can't stop all of it. I just think people reverted to their priors

01:09:55.980 because I don't know, we're just getting used to this leftist violence. And so we see through it

01:10:01.280 what what we want to see through it, Sean. Yeah. So I've spent probably, I think, the last 14 years

01:10:07.380 in investigative journalism. Before that, I was a chief investigator on the Hill for Tom Coburn,

01:10:13.460 who is just a renowned investigator of waste and fraud.

01:10:17.740 And there's a thing you learn to do when you're investigating

01:10:21.280 is that you always kind of have to start with a hypothesis.

01:10:24.920 You have an idea in your head of what happened.

01:10:27.280 And then from there, you have to look at all the facts

01:10:29.440 and you ask yourself,

01:10:30.580 do all these facts align with this hypothesis I have?

01:10:35.120 And you know what?

01:10:35.640 Sometimes they add up perfectly and you're like,

01:10:37.900 okay, I nailed it.

01:10:38.860 This is what happened.

01:10:39.580 And then sometimes they don't.

01:10:41.580 And it takes time and wisdom and discernment and experience to notice when the facts don't quite line up to be able to tell yourself, OK, that original hypothesis I had, I don't think that's correct.

01:10:53.900 So what is actually able to explain all these known facts?

01:10:57.920 What's the thread that runs through all of them?

01:11:00.120 And what's the story that aligns with all of them?

01:11:02.800 And the one in this one is not Israel or Egypt or helicopters or planes or exploding microphones. 0.96

01:11:09.440 It's that we have an utter epidemic of transgender terroristic violence in this country. 0.97

01:11:15.680 This wasn't the first time it happened. 1.00

01:11:17.580 We have scores of examples. 0.99

01:11:19.660 We had a woman who decided she was a boy go and shoot up a bunch of third graders at a 0.59

01:11:26.080 Christian school in Nashville.

01:11:27.880 It happened in Minnesota.

01:11:30.120 It happened in Wisconsin.

01:11:32.160 It is not a big leap to be like, oh, this guy whose DNA is on everything.

01:11:36.720 The guy whose text messages were everywhere. The guy who's he's accounted for all over the campus. His parents recognized him. They turned him in. They confessed it. They have all of it in black and white. He was angry over Charlie's belief that boys can't become girls and girls can't become boys.

01:11:55.080 this isn't a particularly difficult case. This isn't something where we're having to go plumb

01:12:00.900 the depths of the internet and look at this document and that document to figure out what

01:12:04.860 going on. The dots basically connect themselves. It's not a revolutionary theory. This is yet

01:12:09.980 one more example of left-wing transgender terroristic violence. It has to stop. We have 1.00

01:12:15.540 to crack down on it. One thing that I've been frustrated by is that we have not seen Antifa

01:12:20.020 be dragged from their homes, their bank accounts raided, their assets frozen and liquidated,

01:12:25.260 because this is a terrorist movement, is a demonic, violent, terroristic, ideological

01:12:30.840 movement that has been very open about its aims. And we can't just sit by and wait for one more to

01:12:36.760 happen and then put that person in jail. This is something we actually have to tackle head on.

01:12:41.280 I had hoped it would have happened immediately after Charlie was assassinated, and it wasn't,

01:12:45.760 But it's never too late to start. And I just want to say, for the record, you you're fine

01:12:51.900 criticizing Israel. You have not been some shill for Israel, nor have I. Obviously, this whole year 0.53

01:12:57.500 has been very tumultuous because I've refused to do that. And I'm with you. I I've I've been

01:13:04.360 very open minded to if Israel controlled Tyler Robinson and made him a patsy. What the fuck do 1.00

01:13:09.800 I know whether our government or another does that to people and uses them? I'm not I'm open 0.99

01:13:14.000 minded to that. The JFK, there's a big whole theory about that CIA and all that. I get it.

01:13:18.500 I totally get it. But at some point when we're in court, we need to see some proof that he was

01:13:23.920 controlled, that there was an intervention somehow in his life. Like we do need some evidence. And

01:13:31.020 by the way, even if that's somehow lurking out there, we just haven't found it yet.

01:13:36.460 Today's task is to figure out whether Tyler Robinson pulled the trigger.

01:13:40.060 That is today's task. And the evidence that he did is overwhelming. It's overwhelming. I mean, it's video. It's digital. There are notes. There are pictures. There are email correspondence, text messages.

01:13:53.780 There's a witness who's going to take the stand effectively by video, his lover, who

01:13:58.820 we believe is going to point the finger squarely at him and talk of his confession.

01:14:02.100 His parents, we understand at trial, are going to be forced if they don't volunteer to talk

01:14:06.940 about how they were on the receiving end of what has been described as a confession.

01:14:11.060 I actually just pulled that file right here because people don't believe that Tyler Robinson

01:14:14.980 did confess to his parents and they don't believe that they heard anything from him.

01:14:20.680 Here is from the criminal information filed against him.

01:14:23.400 As they discussed the situation, his parents with Tyler Robinson implied that he was the shooter and stated that he couldn't go to jail and just wanted to end it.

01:14:32.240 When asked why he did it, Robinson explained to his parents there is too much evil and that Charlie Kirk spreads too much hate.

01:14:39.560 They talked about Robinson turning himself in and convinced Robinson to speak with a family friend who's a retired deputy sheriff at Robinson's father's request.

01:14:48.300 the family friend met with Robinson and his parents and convinced Robinson to turn himself

01:14:54.220 in. The family friend spoke to police, reported telling Robinson that it would be best if he

01:14:59.500 brought all the evidence with him to the sheriff's office to avoid police having to search his

01:15:03.440 parents' home. The family friend also asked Robinson if he had any clothes that were related

01:15:08.620 to what he did. Robinson replied that he had disposed of the clothes in different areas,

01:15:12.120 and then he went in and did exactly that, turned himself in. That is what's been alleged.

01:15:17.680 that is where the proof is going to take us if there's more beyond it i await the proof of it

01:15:22.740 i mean i i like you i'm a lawyer i want proof i want facts i want admissible evidence that i can

01:15:30.480 then consider as a juror and that's what i've been doing over the course of this preliminary hearing

01:15:35.500 and it's taking me in one direction right now and that is that this is the trigger man

01:15:39.160 they have the right person okay let's keep going the graham platner implosion his has been nothing

01:15:46.780 short of epic, epic Saurabh. I mean, this guy, he had red flags all over him from the beginning.

01:15:55.400 And I get why the Democrats wanted to look past them. You know, he's they finally found somebody

01:15:59.900 who seemed like a real man, like not like the Tim Walz fake man with the camo, you know, like

01:16:05.600 man's man. And they thought, OK, this is this is it. This is what the right wing has been saying

01:16:10.400 we need to do if we want to win in places like Maine. And they just had willful blindness about

01:16:15.960 the fact that it should be somebody who can wear camo credibly, but also doesn't have 25 other

01:16:23.340 problematic allegations around him. And only when they had a leftist come out and say, I love his

01:16:29.780 politics. My my adherence to them is the reason it took me this long to come out and tell the world

01:16:36.680 he allegedly raped me. Did they finally jump ship? And we are now hearing as we are sit here at 1

01:16:42.520 23 p.m. Eastern, that it's a matter of moments before we get the pre-taped video from Graham

01:16:47.320 Plattner dropping out of this Senate race. So what do you make of how we got here and where we are?

01:16:53.320 So I have two thoughts. The first is that, look, after a while, as you said, Megan,

01:16:59.900 once the allegations and different red flags start to pile up, the totality of them becomes hard

01:17:07.000 to resist right in terms of how to deal with with this right so like if it were just this

01:17:13.340 allegation if it were just the other one if it were just the the kind of questionable tattoo if

01:17:19.380 it were just uh um the fact that he described himself as a communist on on reddit forums if 0.79

01:17:26.720 it were just the fact that he said that he likes he likes to think of himself as raping you know 0.51

01:17:32.280 home intruders not to enjoy it but as an act of dominance like any one of those things that you

01:17:37.500 could sort of contextualize and deal with but the totality uh you know makes it you begin to think

01:17:43.120 look this is this is the higher chamber of our legislative branch and it could be a problem

01:17:49.240 could be a problem um that said i will say i'm as i when we discussed it the last time i was on with

01:17:56.060 Sean and Plattner was on the agenda. I am deeply troubled by the larger sort of sexual culture of

01:18:03.800 which I would argue both he and his partners are victims in various ways, where there are no guard

01:18:10.720 rails except after the fact accusations that are very hard to refute. There was no police report

01:18:17.700 at the time. I think it's worth watching Mika Brzezinski's questioning on Morning Joe of the

01:18:23.840 political reporter. She does a very forensic job. And yes, lots of people said that they wish she

01:18:29.160 had done the same thing with Christine Blasey Ford. And that's a fair point. Nevertheless,

01:18:33.640 it's worth watching because it's a it's a rare case where she like puts on her journalist hat

01:18:38.640 and becomes very aggressive and questioning. And it's worth watching that because even this set

01:18:43.800 of allegations, it look, it's bad, but it's not it. There are issues. You know, there's there's

01:18:50.160 talk of Instagram messages in which she reportedly confronted him, the new accuser, or the more

01:18:58.000 recent one, about his behavior that night. And then the journalist is pressed, like, did you

01:19:04.400 see these? And the journalist says, no, she couldn't find a record of them.

01:19:10.300 She said she deleted them all.

01:19:11.960 Right. Again, perfectly plausible. But, you know, when you're talking about an allegation

01:19:18.920 that can not only derail someone's campaign, but essentially ruin their life, I think the

01:19:24.200 evidentiary standard has to be high. And so I have my discomfort with the kind of larger sexual and

01:19:31.320 sort of evidentiary culture that's leading to this. However, to go back to my initial point,

01:19:36.660 again, if it were just the one thing, I would be a Bram Plattner bitter ender. But because it's not,

01:19:43.480 And because there are so many other character red flags and this is the United States Senate, you know, I think I think his candidacy becomes unsustainable.

01:19:54.560 I got you. I totally understand. I think you're in a very reasonable place.

01:19:59.020 I mean, I confess that. I saw Lindsay Fifield, who is the woman who they did feature, who the three of us discussed when this hit in The New York Times.

01:20:07.660 She's a conservative and she dated Graham Plattner.

01:20:10.080 Obviously, you know, her politics didn't make her not want to date him.

01:20:13.820 So clearly they're not making her want to sink him now.

01:20:17.300 But many of the critics of that New York Times article that first espoused some of his female 0.94

01:20:22.120 problems went out, dismissed her because she's a conservative. 1.00

01:20:25.000 Oh, she's a conservative operative.

01:20:26.380 But she's out there with with Jake Tapper now.

01:20:30.180 And she's talking about Graham Plattner.

01:20:33.140 I don't know if we actually have this one, but she's, she's talking about how he allegedly

01:20:39.780 would take off the condom, forgive the graphic descriptions here, but like right before and

01:20:47.800 like surreptitiously remove the condom. And I'm thinking, am I, and then I'm like, well, that's,

01:20:53.040 that's not great. I mean, that's, you know, you do need consent. But then she says repeatedly,

01:20:57.620 maybe six times I get myself okay if if this is important to you after your partner does this to

01:21:06.080 you once you're either out or you know like it's very strange to come back all this time later

01:21:12.600 years later and for the three of us you know Sean Davis of the Federalist so Rob Amari of Unheard

01:21:19.000 and Megan Kelly of the MK show to be litigating whether he took the condom off or not and how

01:21:23.940 many times it was and was there implied consent because she'd let him get away with it times one,

01:21:28.420 two, three, four and five. So on six, like, where are we that we're now getting, you know,

01:21:34.540 evaluating that stuff and assessing who belongs in the U.S. Senate? And I know it's not my turn,

01:21:38.860 but how is he supposed to refute that? Like, like, it's the kind of thing where it's so he

01:21:44.780 said, she said years later. Right. And they both are based on they both say these are based on

01:21:51.500 recollections or compilations of memories and so on. It's impossible to refute. And so, again,

01:21:57.220 as a father of a boy, I want to hold him accountable. And it certainly, clearly,

01:22:03.340 it doesn't belong in the Senate, right? The totality of the accusations is too much.

01:22:07.320 But at the same time, the entire sort of culture we've built in which this sort of accusation can

01:22:15.700 this derail a life and a career needs to be reconsidered. It won't be in the context of

01:22:21.240 Graham Plattner, but it's a larger like national and cultural project we need to have. It involves

01:22:26.260 parents, it involves government, it involves pastors and so on. It just, as you could tell,

01:22:31.740 I get kind of angry about this kind of where it's like he's supposed to refute the condom

01:22:36.900 allegations 12 years later. Come on, come on. How? I know, like how? And even with this woman,

01:22:45.700 This latest accuser who's come forward to say that he went into her home, you know, she says she talks about it.

01:22:54.160 She doesn't say he raped me.

01:22:56.980 I told him no. 0.94

01:22:58.800 And he forced me.

01:23:00.020 She says something like he's he's violated the language of consent repeatedly.

01:23:07.120 It's like consensually careless is the language she is.

01:23:10.460 Yeah, consensually.

01:23:11.420 Like, what does that mean?

01:23:13.180 You know, I get it. 1.00

01:23:14.540 He seems like a scumbag. 1.00

01:23:15.620 I'm not going to lie. I have no problem with him getting booted as the Democratic nominee for 1.00

01:23:19.640 Senate. None whatsoever. But I share some of your same concerns. John, what do you make of it?

01:23:24.780 Yeah. To me, it's just like a story that's a clown car of terrible judgment 0.67

01:23:29.240 involving every single person. And I'm going to apologize for coming across as the prude here.

01:23:36.380 But we actually have this amazing institution in America. I call it marriage. And within marriage,

01:23:43.600 you know sex is normal it's that's what it's designed for you can you can do things and you

01:23:48.600 don't have to worry about being accused of rape or non-consent and I think when people go down

01:23:53.580 this path when they're being promiscuous when you know they're with a guy like Graham Plattner who's

01:23:59.060 obviously a dirtbag that they've had a long time sexual relationship with bad things happen there 0.94

01:24:04.940 okay so I'm not trying to be judgmental I'm trying to like tell people that when you go down that 0.93

01:24:10.360 road you are setting yourself up for bad outcomes. Graham Plattner, you're going to be accused of

01:24:15.900 rape later. The women who are now talking about this stuff publicly, you had to go through that.

01:24:22.040 Number one, now you're deciding to talk about it publicly. So like your husbands get to learn all

01:24:26.420 about it now. I bet that's super fun for them. It's in the news. So your kids are going to read 1.00

01:24:31.260 about it one day. Does anyone think that everything that happened here has been good

01:24:36.040 for anyone involved. No, they all made terrible decisions. Okay. Sleeping with Graham Plattner,

01:24:42.060 bad decision. Being promiscuous before marriage or ever, bad decision. Talking in great detail

01:24:49.000 about your sex life to the New York Times, bad decision. Telling Jake Tapper about condom use

01:24:55.580 in your sex life, that's a bad decision. It's just terrible judgment all the way around. And by the

01:25:00.820 way, Democrat voters, you voted for this guy knowing what was going on, that he had a Nazi 0.88

01:25:04.700 tattoo and that he got a little handsy and maybe, you know, kind of rapey and you voted for him 0.89

01:25:09.160 anyway. I hate everyone in this story. Everyone is an idiot. Everyone has terrible judgment.

01:25:14.400 And can we just go back to all making good decisions that we all know are good?

01:25:18.840 Is that so hard? Apparently it is. All I can think about is Eric Swalwell and the women who

01:25:25.840 came forward against him who were like, and he date rape drugged me and then raped me. 0.75

01:25:33.100 And then I called him a year later and asked him if he wanted to get drinks.

01:25:35.980 But I'm I'm definitely a victim.

01:25:37.960 I'm really sad about my victimhood.

01:25:40.140 But it's like and then I did it again a year later. 0.98

01:25:42.680 But I'm telling you, he gave me a date rape drug and raped me. 0.97

01:25:46.400 And that should mean he it's like, I'm sorry. 0.99

01:25:49.480 But what person gets back together with her alleged druggist rapist and just, you know,

01:25:55.960 because he could write me a recommendation like I, I have a really hard time swallowing

01:26:00.520 that whole thing. 0.89

01:26:01.880 Not that Swalwell's not a dirtbag. 0.98

01:26:03.640 He is.

01:26:04.040 But in any event, that's where we are. 0.95

01:26:05.920 He's leaving the race. 0.76

01:26:07.440 What's going to happen there?

01:26:08.660 Is this is this good for Republicans because a flawed candidate is now exiting, Sean?

01:26:14.840 Or is this bad for Republicans?

01:26:17.520 No, reverse that.

01:26:18.640 Is it good for Republicans because a flawed candidate is exiting the Dem race and they

01:26:22.040 can replace him with somebody better who could more easily take down Susan Collins?

01:26:25.900 or is it is it is it good for Republicans because scandal they're a hot mess whoever comes in now 1.00

01:26:33.580 has a short runway and then there's to to to her credit in this context plain old boring Susan

01:26:41.080 Collins on the other end yeah I've got bad news for Democrats here and it's you we were never 0.94

01:26:46.500 going to beat Susan Collins anyway so like they've gone through this whole ridiculous charade with 1.00

01:26:51.100 this idiot who wasn't going to beat her, even if he wasn't a total freak show. He wasn't going to 1.00

01:26:56.900 beat her if he was awesome. So it's just like this voluntary seppuku that the Democrat Party has put

01:27:02.840 them through. You know, in the long run, it's probably better for Republicans to see this

01:27:08.580 total CF going on with them. They can't do anything right. Now they're going to overrule

01:27:12.780 their own primary voters and airdrop someone in that they didn't want, which is exactly what they

01:27:17.060 did when they put Biden aside, even though everyone knew he was a vegetable and then 0.98

01:27:21.140 installed Kamala.

01:27:22.440 So like, yes, yeah, long run, it probably helps Republicans.

01:27:24.700 But Democrats, I know maybe it's actually good news for them.

01:27:27.980 It doesn't matter what you're going to do. 0.94

01:27:29.640 She's going to win anyway.

01:27:30.940 So God bless and have fun.

01:27:34.020 So Sean is on a roll.

01:27:35.600 You guys both are on a roll today.

01:27:36.860 She brought the heat today.

01:27:38.520 I appreciate it.

01:27:39.860 They are looking at this guy to replace Graham Plattner, who's got his own issues, according

01:27:45.220 to, uh, what was it? Progressive democracy or progressive victory. Um, this other guy who

01:27:51.380 they're looking at has some, uh, alleged history of throwing a bottle at a woman and hitting her.

01:27:56.960 So like they're struggling to find somebody who they could really sell. Um, I, I, it, they are

01:28:03.380 facing a short runway and today's, uh, the daily podcast from the New York times was all about

01:28:09.120 what what Sean just said. They're worried on Team Blue about the fact that it was grassroots.

01:28:17.120 It was grassroots. The lie they told us about Kamala and that switcheroo didn't stick and that

01:28:22.820 they won't be able to get away with that twice. Well, luckily, in Texas, they're they're running

01:28:28.660 a former vegan who believes God is non-binary so that I mean, this is not a vegan. He put out a

01:28:38.420 picture of him eating a big wing. I said former. But yeah, look, I mean, he's a vegan. You know,

01:28:44.500 look, this is a this is an easy year for for Democrats. And that's what we were told. Right.

01:28:50.300 Inflation is high. There's an unpopular quasi war afoot in the Middle East. And also just

01:28:56.820 generally voters tend to punish the incumbent party at midterms. So like so easy to just run

01:29:04.960 like normal nominees like how hard is it to find someone for texas i'm talking about james talrico

01:29:10.900 who doesn't have crazy heterodox views as a as a as a christian right um in in maine i think

01:29:20.020 in in all fairness and i say this is a matter of equity i i do i'm not a democrat but if i were

01:29:26.840 i would say grand pat plattner should be allowed kind of pretty exclusive king making authority

01:29:32.740 um because he won so overwhelmingly in the primary so to like for the for the local republic sorry

01:29:40.280 for the local democratic party to sort of parachute their own choice in someone who has um within the

01:29:46.040 spectrum of the left views that are completely contrary to platner's i think that's somehow

01:29:52.400 worse than running platner as as as flawed and damaged as he is so that's i think i think that's

01:29:58.500 the general point is that, you know, and if I were on his team, I would say like, yeah, you know,

01:30:04.220 you want to you want to make it painless. Like there has to be serious consultations. But also,

01:30:08.680 I think from a small democratic matter, the guy did win overwhelmingly. And much of it was out

01:30:14.800 there when voters went to the to the to the polls and chose him anyway, as the nominee. So virtually

01:30:20.500 all of it, virtually all of it. That's right. That's right. So then like, let him have his let

01:30:24.860 him have his say yeah because they're now they're warring his team wants to say and who the

01:30:29.560 replacement would be and the party's like f you you're you're too rapey to use your word sean that

01:30:34.820 to to be involved the guy who i mentioned who allegedly has some some accusation of throwing

01:30:40.900 a bottle at a woman and hitting her is troy jackson he's a logger by trade and a former

01:30:46.620 state senator um who lost last month's democratic primary for main governor and he uh submitted a

01:30:54.500 filing with the Federal Election Commission on Tuesday, setting up an, quote, exploratory

01:30:58.380 committee to replace Plattner.

01:31:00.340 So they certainly seem to be looking at this guy, Troy Jackson, but I can't imagine why

01:31:06.180 they'd want to replace one who's got a woman problem with another who's got a woman problem.

01:31:11.500 I guess it's just going to be fun to watch how they handle this problem, because it's 1.00

01:31:15.000 their problem.

01:31:15.980 For once, it's their problem and not about a Republican behaving badly with women or

01:31:20.960 otherwise.

01:31:22.220 OK, there's more to discuss, including Carmelo Anthony, who's just filed an appeal and is

01:31:27.920 asking for the judge who oversaw his case to be removed.

01:31:31.880 This guy would normally handle any post-conviction motions, not the appeal that's going to go

01:31:36.080 up to the appellate court, but I'll we'll explain why they're trying to get this guy

01:31:39.860 bounced off of the case altogether.

01:31:42.660 And also there's the matter of Iran, where the ceasefire is officially off, says President

01:31:48.080 Trump. 0.83

01:31:48.480 Stand by.

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01:35:26.020 I think it's over.

01:35:27.860 I don't want to deal with them anymore. 1.00

01:35:29.320 They're scum. 1.00

01:35:30.000 You know what scum is? 1.00

01:35:31.360 They're scum. 1.00

01:35:32.080 They're sick people. 1.00

01:35:33.280 They're led by sick people. 1.00

01:35:34.520 and they're vicious violent people and if they had a nuclear weapon they'd use it as far as i'm 0.98

01:35:41.720 concerned it's over i'll speak to our negotiators they want to negotiate they're good people

01:35:46.260 steve whitkoff jared kushner but they have to come back to me as far as i'm concerned it's

01:35:52.560 just a waste of time dealing with them they're liars we make a deal and they what if i make a

01:35:58.660 deal with him we have a deal and he goes out he talks we make a deal everyone's agreed no nuclear

01:36:03.520 weapon. We make a deal. They go outside, talk to the press. They say, we never even talked about

01:36:08.440 it. There's something wrong with them. They're cuckoo. As far as I'm concerned, it's over.

01:36:16.300 President Trump on Iran and the ceasefire, as you heard, now being over. Basically,

01:36:22.540 what happened was, you know, the strait was supposed to be open. They bombed three ships

01:36:26.640 in the Strait of Hormuz because they didn't like the route it was taking closer to Amman. I don't,

01:36:30.840 Who cares? They bombed three ships. Trump got pissed. He dropped bombs on them. Then they dropped

01:36:36.400 bombs as they had been during the war on our military bases in Bahrain and Kuwait. And now

01:36:43.960 Trump's angry. And you heard him there saying they're cuckoo. They're crazy. I can't deal with

01:36:49.760 these people. The ceasefire is over and there may be more bombs coming their way now, which is not

01:36:54.820 great. And I'm back to are we are we back in the escalation trap, Sean Davis? Like, where does this

01:37:01.740 go? Because this is this is really not great. And our pals are more neocon hawkish pals over on Fox

01:37:07.460 and people at CNN, too, are, I mean, salivating this morning. They're so excited that this thing

01:37:12.480 may be getting rejiggered back into action. Yeah. Wow. They are cuckoo for Cocoa Pops.

01:37:19.840 Um, it's the whole situation is good. Thank you. Is it's just kind of absurd. But I don't think

01:37:26.980 we are on this permanent escalation ladder is the foreign policy dorks might say, because Iran can't 0.98

01:37:35.220 really escalate beyond taking potshots. I'm also not even sure that the people who he was negotiating

01:37:43.120 with may even be aware of it. Like, I don't think we have a good, full understanding of command and

01:37:48.560 control over there. We killed so many of their leaders. Was this a directive from the central 0.93

01:37:53.740 government? Are these people factions within the Iranian military who just want the war to go on

01:37:59.540 because it strengthens their hand? I have no idea. But this is kind of like the maximum of what Iran

01:38:04.980 is able to do. And I think it's especially interesting. Why do you say that? Why can't 0.98

01:38:09.340 they just close the strait again like they did before and put us back into that same economic

01:38:14.340 pain that led us to want to deal in the first place. They may be able to try that. But what's

01:38:19.160 interesting here, I think, is where Trump is and what he's doing this week. So he is in Turkey.

01:38:24.280 He's meeting with NATO. The Strait of Hormuz is not something that's particularly essential

01:38:29.740 for America. We don't get most of our oil through there, but Europe does. And NATO exists to protect

01:38:36.380 Europe. It doesn't really exist to protect the United States. And so the fact that this is kind

01:38:40.540 bubbling up now, it strikes me as a largely European problem that this is a problem that

01:38:46.700 NATO and Europe are going to need to cause it, but they have to fix it. I honestly, I'm fine

01:38:51.460 with that. I got to be honest. I it's like the Pottery Barn thing. Like I went in, I handled

01:38:57.120 stuff. I broke the stuff. If I got out of the store and I'm already on the subway home,

01:39:01.980 does it have to be my problem? I kind of share that view. I've got to be honest, like,

01:39:07.360 sorry, we broke it, but we did actually bomb a lot of things in there that will wind up

01:39:12.240 potentially protecting Europe in some way. I guess so, Rob, is the argument. I don't know.

01:39:15.820 What do you think of all this? I think the Iranians are overplaying a good hand, right? 1.00

01:39:20.640 They had this capacity, which they didn't even weren't fully aware of it, which is to 1.00

01:39:25.820 choke this global energy point. Unfortunately, because commodity markets are global

01:39:30.700 and they're sort of oil is fungible. If you squeeze supply at one point, you do get pain

01:39:36.560 and the American consumer as well as actually is reflected in inflation numbers here and at the gas prices during the kind of peak of the war.

01:39:45.220 But be that as it may, like they recognize they have this capacity, but they're now overplaying their hand.

01:39:51.660 They want full control over the Strait of Hormuz. And, you know, the memorandum of understanding does allow them to have a say over it.

01:39:59.580 But if there are disputes, there are supposed to be mechanisms for resolving it that don't involve just firing at civilian ships and asking questions later.

01:40:10.220 You know, I joined the vice president as a reporter on his negotiations in Switzerland, and he touted this kind of communication link that was supposed to emerge between the United States and Iran so that they could de-escalate things.

01:40:23.400 And I think Vance is right here. He says he has tweeted since then, like they know they can pick up a phone if they have an issue. There is a negotiating table and we can resolve it. So this kind of behavior where you just fire at random civilian ships, it's unjust. It's irresponsible.

01:40:41.580 And ultimately, you know, what the United States can do, I don't think we'll ever return to a big escalatory war ever again.

01:40:49.020 I mean, or I shouldn't say ever, but it seems unlikely.

01:40:52.120 There's very little appetite for it from the president on down.

01:40:55.020 But what the U.S. can just reimpose its blockade and just squeeze Iran at a distance without getting into the sort of firing, you know, full on war. 0.51

01:41:08.640 And Iran is at some point.

01:41:09.840 Although Trump did say we are going to be hitting them again tonight and the U.S. is clawing back its oil sanctions waivers that we offered to them as part of this deal, which you would expect.

01:41:20.640 Like that's we said all along, if you behave badly, we're going to take back some of the relief that we're about to give you.

01:41:26.220 Yeah, that's like skirmishes or taking pot. It's not quite the same as a as a full war.

01:41:31.180 So, again, I think the blame here lies mostly with the Iranian regime and the fact that, again, there was a whole mechanism set up so that if you have complaints about how the memorandum is being implemented or how it should be implemented, we're across the table from each other and we talk.

01:41:49.940 So, you know, if the United States can impose a great deal of pain on Iran without without it really being full on war. 0.58

01:41:59.380 So if they want to go down this route, let them and they're going to feel the pain. 0.62

01:42:04.240 If you have complaints, please press one pound.

01:42:08.260 Don't blow up the phone line entirely.

01:42:10.600 There are other methods to take care of these problems.

01:42:13.500 All right. Before we go, I've got to show you Sonny Hostin of The View.

01:42:16.040 It was the big Fourth of July celebration.

01:42:17.700 vibration. I'm sure you guys had a great time with your family, as did we. And this is what

01:42:22.160 Sonny Hostin's thinking about these days. And with an American flag on that cap, you might as

01:42:27.720 well have a hood on. You might as well have a hood on because that's what it looks like. That's what

01:42:31.180 it feels like. But you say this is the best nation. It's the best nation for who? Yeah,

01:42:36.700 when you say it's the best nation, the best nation for who? Because if we are celebrating

01:42:40.880 250 years, what are we exactly celebrating is what I want to know. And so I'm really glad that

01:42:45.820 picture was taken because that picture is how we feel walking into many rooms down the street that

01:42:51.540 picture is how we feel and nobody will believe us so look at that picture and understand how it

01:42:57.140 feels you never should be made to feel like that it's wrong and i said this on this show many many

01:43:02.660 years ago because this is my 10th year on the show and i said there are times when i walk into a

01:43:06.960 community and i see um american flags all over the community and i suddenly feel unsafe because

01:43:14.180 there is a section of this country that has co-opted the american flag and they equate uh

01:43:19.940 being an american or an american flag with white supremacy and that should never be ever the symbol

01:43:26.400 of white supremacy but they have weaponized shut up all right sean you want to take that in a minute

01:43:33.920 we have left yeah we actually have a rule in our hoa that every house has to have a flag to make

01:43:38.980 sure Sonny Hostin doesn't show up. You know, we do it for our protection. Everyone. Everyone's

01:43:44.480 good. You have to have at least three. You got to have one in the backyard on the mailbox and

01:43:48.560 in the front of the house because you can't be too sure these days. She might just show up.

01:43:52.800 She's she lives in a palace. This woman is one of the richest women in America. 1.00

01:43:57.760 And yet she's still she's going to be targeted. This is her home. She's going to be targeted

01:44:01.900 just because of the color of her skin, because you can see how unfair America has been to her.

01:44:07.180 Guys, love talking to you.

01:44:08.960 Thanks for being here, Sareb, Sean, you too.

01:44:11.100 We'll do it again soon.

01:44:12.000 All the best.

01:44:12.640 And we'll have much more tomorrow

01:44:14.140 on the Tyler Robinson hearing.

01:44:16.020 In the meantime, check it out at youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.

01:44:19.280 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:44:21.160 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 08, 2026

The Robinson-Twiggs DNA Evidence, and Assassination Culture, with Jack Posobiec, Sean Davis, and Sohrab Ahmari ｜ Ep. 1355

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