The Megyn Kelly Show - The TRUTH About Jill's Treatment of Joe Biden, Bari Weiss' Leadership, and ＂Strangers＂ Accuracy, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1332

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00:00:56.760 luggage, smart glasses. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:01:02.620 live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.480 Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Thursday. It's

00:01:16.640 another day filled with breaking news from all over the country and another day where we do not

00:01:20.520 know who's moving on to the runoff in the major California elections for governor and Los Angeles

00:01:26.580 mayor because they really just have to wait for the mail-in votes to arrive. And there's apparently

00:01:35.080 been a surge in mail-in votes, especially from Democrat areas of California. So it's really just

00:01:42.700 too difficult for them to predict how these races are going to come down. I'm sorry, but if you don't

00:01:49.360 smell a rat, your olfactory nerves are not working. This is sick. This is no way to run an election.

00:01:56.580 There will be no public confidence in this if it doesn't track the way the actual in-person vote tracked as of Tuesday.

00:02:04.540 I mean, this is third world shit we're looking at right now because you have Tom.

00:02:10.640 Sorry, not Tom Steyer. Thank God. You have Steve Hilton leading in California and you've got Spencer Pratt currently in second in L.A.

00:02:21.140 But they won't call it for either one because they think Tom Steyer at the gubernatorial level and Nithya Raman at the L.A. mayor level may surge miraculously in the mail-in votes and overtake one of the top two spots, leaving the Republicans in the dust and not able to move on.

00:02:46.260 Like, no one's going to accept this.

00:02:50.640 Like, California is 39% Republicans.

00:02:54.500 They have no representation whatsoever at the state level.

00:03:00.080 And now, for the first time with their, you know, half their city in L.A. burning down

00:03:05.180 and their state in tatters with homeless everywhere and hypodermic needles on every sidewalk.

00:03:11.840 Now the public gets to vote.

00:03:13.560 and what we have to wait, they're saying it could be weeks before we know the result, weeks, days or weeks.

00:03:20.820 You've got Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, rightfully ripping them, saying we have 10 million voters here.

00:03:29.460 We count it in a day. Get your shit together.

00:03:33.020 It's not exactly how we put it, but that's what he's saying.

00:03:35.060 And you've got a lot of Californians out there who want real change and have it available to them in like a realistic way.

00:03:44.860 This could actually happen for the first time in a long time.

00:03:48.260 And it just feels very much like it is in serious danger of getting stolen out from under them.

00:03:55.420 And you guys know I'm not a big stolen election person.

00:03:58.500 You know, I I'm not. I've never bought into that shit.

00:04:01.460 I want to see cold, hard proof if somebody is going to make allegations of a stolen election.

00:04:05.540 But how are you going to have confidence when they're talking about surge in mail in vote votes, especially from Democrat counties and more than half of the vote outstanding in mail in balloting more than half?

00:04:19.900 So you can control any election if you've got more than half of the vote outstanding and control anything.

00:04:24.980 This is not just military vets who are overseas. This is like half of the populace there who they

00:04:30.680 are letting, and you can mail in the ballots on election day. They don't have to be in by

00:04:36.680 election day. I'm just like, okay, I'll give you the specifics as we get into this in just a bit.

00:04:42.120 Then we also have got to get into this. All right. So for months now, I've actually been

00:04:47.220 obsessing over this book. I've shared my thoughts with a lot of my dear friends over this book.

00:04:51.400 I don't know why this book has struck such a chord with me and a lot of other women in

00:04:57.860 particular, but now it finds itself immersed in controversy and for good reason, right?

00:05:03.860 It's a bestseller and it's called Strangers.

00:05:06.840 Now, I actually saw it because my husband Doug's book is on the New York Times bestseller

00:05:10.020 list, thanks to all of you in large part.

00:05:12.160 So thank you.

00:05:13.100 It's called The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel.

00:05:15.800 I'll have an update on that in a second.

00:05:17.080 But I looked at the Times bestseller list, which I don't normally do.

00:05:21.400 And thankfully, Doug made it.

00:05:23.180 And this woman, Belle Burden, and her book, Strangers, is still at the top of it.

00:05:27.640 It's also nonfiction, like Doug's book, and it's called A Memoir of Marriage.

00:05:31.820 It's been 19 weeks on the bestseller list now, in fact.

00:05:35.040 So, wow, good for her.

00:05:36.780 But it turns out that much like another book that our friend Maureen Callahan took a deep dive into and exposed as a fraud,

00:05:45.780 and now the author of that other book

00:05:48.280 is facing a lawsuit

00:05:49.780 from the woman who claims her story was

00:05:52.220 stolen, just like

00:05:54.220 that book, this book too

00:05:56.100 appears to have taken some serious

00:05:58.140 liberties with the truth

00:06:00.160 in order to create a narrative around

00:06:02.120 this poor me mom and wife

00:06:04.220 who was left by the evil

00:06:06.000 financier husband

00:06:07.300 that are now just coming out.

00:06:10.420 It's coming out that

00:06:11.400 this woman can buy you and your entire family.

00:06:14.420 OK, like she wrote a whole novel, not novel, nonfiction piece about how her husband left her in the lurch for another woman, how her financial security was in tatters.

00:06:26.700 She didn't know where to turn, what to do next.

00:06:28.520 She was going to lose all her houses.

00:06:30.280 And it turns out the New Yorker did a deep dive.

00:06:33.240 She's worth sixty seven million dollars.

00:06:38.240 We're like crying tears to this woman, this woman, some of us.

00:06:41.540 Uh, do you have $67 million? Would you be writing a piece about how you didn't know how to pay your

00:06:48.200 bills? If you can't pay your bills with $67 million, it's a you problem. Okay. So there's

00:06:55.860 a lot to get into and the perfect person is here to do it. Her name is Maureen Callahan and she

00:07:00.140 is the host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan on our MK Media podcast network. Go and subscribe

00:07:05.520 now on YouTube. It's on every podcast platform so you can get it for free wherever you go

00:07:10.060 or just go to thenervshow.com to find out all the deets on how to connect with Maureen.

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00:08:31.720 slash Megan today. That's supersure.com slash Megan paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency,

00:08:37.300 LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Maureen, welcome back. Thank you for having me, Megan.

00:08:44.080 You've been on all of these stories right from the get-go and it's the same publisher.

00:08:49.560 Is it? Who did Amy Griffin's The Tell and then did Belle Burden's Strangers, the same publisher.

00:08:56.380 You know, her story never struck me as real in the first place. I remember reading her Modern Love column, which was the precursor, and that got her the book deal.

00:09:08.080 In the New York Times, they have a column where you can write in about your Modern Love story, and she did that, and that turned into the book.

00:09:13.420 And this was the story, Sum and Substance. My husband came home one day and said he wanted a divorce.

00:09:20.080 I don't know what's a differentiating factor that makes that story unique.

00:09:25.740 I'm sorry for her that her marriage ended and she didn't want it to, but it happens every day.

00:09:32.000 I went and reread it because we're doing this on the nerve tomorrow as well.

00:09:36.680 And I reread that original column.

00:09:40.280 And you can tell because in the book, she writes about, she had a very lengthy back and forth with the editor at the New York Times.

00:09:47.600 This is like a 900 word column.

00:09:49.520 It should not take that long, right?

00:09:52.600 And you can tell the editors pushing her, like, what's different about your story?

00:09:57.260 Yes, Belle, you may be a New York City heiress.

00:10:01.660 You may be descended from Standard Oil, the Vanderbilts.

00:10:06.080 You know, your grandmother may have been, you know, Babe Paley, who is, by the way, married to the head of CBS, Bill Paley.

00:10:12.600 So she's not some fawn in the woods who doesn't know how media works and big media and big money.

00:10:17.800 Okay. So Belle, what makes your story different? What makes it different? And what she comes up

00:10:23.460 with is, I'm special because this happened to me during a pandemic. Yeah, that is. She does

00:10:30.300 highlight that a lot in the book. Okay. Is she the only person whose marriage fell apart during

00:10:35.620 the stress of the pandemic and global lockdown? Right. Come on. I really found this an interesting

00:10:41.800 read. I listened to the audio as I do with most books and she reads it herself. You have to speed

00:10:47.420 it up. She's got a very slow cadence. But I thought it was just interesting from like a human

00:10:52.080 perspective. But the more I listened, the less I liked this woman. Because if you listen to the

00:10:58.480 book or read the book, what you will see is somebody who is very much like, he left me.

00:11:03.020 It's all about not giving anything away. This is how it basically opens. But the husband comes,

00:11:06.980 actually, they're in their Martha's Vineyard multi-million dollar estate in the pandemic.

00:11:12.840 And she gets a call from a man who says, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but your husband has been having an affair with my wife.

00:11:20.620 And she's devastated.

00:11:22.980 And the first night, her husband admits to it, but apologizes and feels bad.

00:11:28.540 And then by the next morning at 6 a.m., he awakes her in bed saying, with his backpack saying, I thought I loved you.

00:11:35.800 I don't.

00:11:36.560 I'm leaving you.

00:11:37.260 I haven't been happy in a long time.

00:11:38.500 And he pieces out and he goes back to their pad in the city, which is also a multimillion dollar home. And before you know it, he really does. He is leaving her. He does not ever come back and say, I made a mistake. It's totally unclear to me whether he winds up with the woman like the affair partner. I don't think that they wound up together, but I could be wrong.

00:11:57.680 and then she talks about the journey of like how devastating this was because she was

00:12:03.520 blindsided that's what interested me and it's like the nightmare you know that like someone

00:12:09.820 you deeply love just one day comes to you and says i don't love you i'm out like you've somehow

00:12:14.800 grown repulsive to me that's a horrible horrible nightmare i i i think we've talked about this

00:12:21.040 because it's like i never forgot it when i heard about it but it was like lonnie anderson and

00:12:25.200 Burt Reynolds, who were supposed to be like the it couple. Remember everybody? Back in the day,

00:12:29.760 they were on Battle of the Network Stars and all the things together as husband and wife. They were

00:12:33.820 so sweet. Their love affair was held up as the love affair of all love affairs. She said one

00:12:41.000 morning, he looked at her in bed and said, you know you're the love of my life, don't you?

00:12:45.560 She said, of course, and you're the love of mine. That afternoon, she got served with divorce

00:12:50.900 papers. So it's like that kind of shit is very tough to recover from. It's like all my judgment

00:12:57.920 sucks. My interpersonal skills are bad. I can't read people. I have no EQ. I can never trust again.

00:13:04.900 I can never love again because I'm going to set myself up for this. So that's to me why Belle

00:13:09.460 Burden's story was interesting. Like she wrote about how she really, really, really did not see

00:13:14.300 problems in their marriage. And this husband doing this to her completely undermined her sense of

00:13:19.860 self. But if you read the book more carefully, then you hear little signs like she admits

00:13:27.120 she completely let herself go physically. That's not an excuse to cheat on your wife and dump on

00:13:34.060 her, but let's face it. It does matter. If you marry a thin fit person and they completely let

00:13:40.900 themselves go physically, don't be surprised if the sexual attraction goes down. And eventually,

00:13:47.260 especially with a man. I mean, if they say he's not getting it from you, he's getting it from

00:13:50.940 somebody else, not excusing him, just talking about realities here. And that's what happened.

00:13:56.080 And then she admits she completely ceded all of the financial responsibilities to him. He married

00:14:02.820 a corporate lawyer who I think she was at Paul Weiss, like a big, great firm. So he married a

00:14:09.020 Gunner, who was an heiress, but like a serious professional.

00:14:15.180 And then she gave up her job to raise the kids.

00:14:19.100 That's fine.

00:14:19.740 But like, he's getting something a little different than he thought he was getting.

00:14:23.080 And on top of that, ceded everything to him.

00:14:27.120 She never paid a bill.

00:14:28.360 She never looked over his shoulder at a checkbook.

00:14:30.240 She couldn't even balance a checkbook.

00:14:31.600 She had no idea what the finances were.

00:14:33.680 So this guy had all of the responsibility, everything.

00:14:36.820 and she limited herself to one thing,

00:14:39.600 taking care of Junior.

00:14:41.400 By the way, I don't even know where actual Junior was

00:14:43.680 because they had a boy and two girls.

00:14:44.860 The boy's not even there.

00:14:46.000 He's with another family throughout the whole pandemic.

00:14:48.400 He doesn't live with them.

00:14:50.000 Only her two younger daughters live with them,

00:14:51.660 which is weird.

00:14:53.360 And so she dumps on this husband

00:14:55.360 like it's all his fault.

00:14:57.920 And that's clearly not right in any marriage

00:15:00.740 or even any affair.

00:15:02.740 And now it turns out the main thread

00:15:05.740 of like what he had done to her other than the cheating which was like he left her high and dry

00:15:10.320 with the finances is a lie she's worth almost 70 million dollars maureen and she's wrote a whole

00:15:16.740 book getting us to feel sorry for her and her financial situation this this story is so i i

00:15:24.420 love this story and i'm actually so glad like i bought the book a while ago and i read it after

00:15:30.040 the new yorker thing oh because i oh you must have enjoyed that i i really did first of all i love

00:15:34.780 that word gunner. Like he married a gunner. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. I don't like, let's see,

00:15:41.920 how do I start this? She is a liar. We know she's a liar. Okay. She says in the book,

00:15:47.260 not only did he just come home and say, I don't love you anymore and I'm leaving and I was just

00:15:51.000 the perfect wife. What did I do? Sorry, you weren't the perfect wife, you know, and you're

00:15:55.820 constructing yourself in this book as like the perfect wife and a total victim. And I just don't

00:16:00.960 buy it. Something was deeply wrong in that marriage for quite some time. Okay. Secondly,

00:16:06.460 she's like, yeah, not only I was, I was up against it. I was going to have to sell the

00:16:10.580 Martha's Vineyard home and the expensive penthouse in New York city. And we were going to have to

00:16:17.000 split the proceeds, Megan, split the proceeds. And what turns out is like the husband who she

00:16:23.680 paints as evil, like almost like a psychopath. Like I married Christian Bale, an American psycho,

00:16:29.020 What's wrong with me?

00:16:30.020 And that's what I hate about this

00:16:31.200 because this is what it implants this fear into women.

00:16:34.960 Like, are you with a psychopath?

00:16:36.880 Yeah.

00:16:37.200 Do you really know your husband or your boyfriend?

00:16:39.400 It's like, the guy was like,

00:16:40.720 hey, have both properties.

00:16:43.800 Take both of them.

00:16:44.700 You know what else you can take?

00:16:45.700 Now, these are the details

00:16:46.740 that really make this story sing.

00:16:48.600 They have a private beach on Martha's Vineyard,

00:16:52.040 which requires a key,

00:16:53.940 which was most recently valued at $400,000.

00:16:56.860 You can take that.

00:16:57.780 Do you remember? And he's paying for the kids until they're 22, 50 grand a month.

00:17:02.680 And that only that's just child support. That doesn't include tuition, doctor bills, extracurriculars.

00:17:07.740 He's covering everything. Who couldn't make life work on a, you know, who could make life work on a paltry $600,000 a year, Maureen?

00:17:17.080 Poor Belle. She says in the book, this is a direct quote. It brought me to my knees.

00:17:22.560 This is what brought her to her knees, Megan.

00:17:25.380 She's at the country club one day.

00:17:27.360 She's not a country club person, but she joined anyway.

00:17:29.540 Oh, sure.

00:17:30.140 She joined.

00:17:30.680 She's just a regular person.

00:17:31.980 She joined anyway because she needed a social circle.

00:17:35.440 So she's at the country club minding her business.

00:17:37.840 And, you know, she's expecting everybody to be on her side because her big bad husband had the affair.

00:17:41.880 He cheated.

00:17:42.620 Yeah.

00:17:43.380 And she's basically telling everybody, you should hate him.

00:17:45.540 He cheated on me.

00:17:47.400 And life is very complicated.

00:17:48.960 I'm sorry.

00:17:49.380 It just is.

00:17:50.680 This woman comes up to her and says, listen, sister, I'm going to I'm going to clue you in on something.

00:17:55.500 When a couple gets divorced up here, typically only one person gets custody of the country club.

00:18:01.460 Bahara.

00:18:02.460 And Belle is like, I'm sorry, excuse me.

00:18:04.740 What was that?

00:18:06.080 Only one.

00:18:07.260 And Belle says, but I'm the wrong spouse.

00:18:10.460 It should be me.

00:18:11.480 Right.

00:18:11.720 Me.

00:18:12.240 And she's like, it doesn't work that way.

00:18:13.740 I mean, come on, you know that, like that, that level of male of like 1% or 0.1, like

00:18:20.360 they've got a lot of options.

00:18:22.140 It happens every day.

00:18:23.680 Rubbing the elbows.

00:18:24.520 They want the guy who can create additional business connections for the people who are

00:18:29.120 there.

00:18:29.760 Yeah.

00:18:30.060 She's very concerned about their country club in the book.

00:18:32.360 And the other thing is the, um, oh, she also admits in the book and you got to get deep

00:18:38.800 into it to hear this piece.

00:18:41.040 She was boring.

00:18:42.640 She admits she was boring, not exciting socially, not a great conversationalist, and never wanted

00:18:49.900 to go out.

00:18:51.020 Like, her arm had to be twisted.

00:18:53.480 Now, I get it.

00:18:54.520 Like, I'm not a huge go-out person.

00:18:56.920 We do go out.

00:18:57.740 We meet friends for dinner, but, like, I'm not on a red carpet very often.

00:19:01.300 Every once in a while, you got to do it.

00:19:02.560 But my point is simply, that works in my marriage because my husband's fine with that.

00:19:06.620 But if you're married to somebody who's, like, a captain of industry who constantly

00:19:10.760 needs to be out there rubbing elbows and like glad handing with potential clients. Like he

00:19:14.840 works for a hedge fund. So he needs to get rich people to invest in him with him. You do need a

00:19:19.840 wife who can play that part. And I know a lot of them here in my town and they're amazing at it.

00:19:23.740 The women who can do it well are like equal partners to those husbands, man. They're incredibly

00:19:28.300 charming, very good conversationalists, keep the convo going in a way sometimes even the husbands

00:19:33.520 can't. So they actually do wind up being very, very important business partners in the way to

00:19:37.060 their spouses. She admits she couldn't. And repeatedly, he was kind of disappointed by her

00:19:42.060 rejection of him on this run and rejection in the bedroom. I'm sorry, but like, what did you

00:19:48.180 think was going to happen? Well, I think she thought I brought the real money to this marriage.

00:19:53.160 You know, I mean, it's so out of touch because I think what's so deeply offensive about this book,

00:19:56.980 which has been propped up by the likes of Oprah, Gwyneth, Drew Barrymore, NPR, the New York Times,

00:20:02.540 the media industrial complex is that it is an insult to women everywhere who do not have nearly

00:20:10.160 as many means, whose husbands do walk out the door, who are left with small children to support,

00:20:15.940 who are now facing down the barrel of selling probably their only asset, the family home,

00:20:20.420 and being bankrupted by the cost of litigation if it gets ugly. Who's going to pay the child

00:20:24.740 support? Is he going to show up? Is that going to be another fight? Do I have to get two jobs?

00:20:28.460 Who's taking care of my kids?

00:20:29.760 Do I have to, you know, all of those things.

00:20:31.840 Belle Burden, and you're so right, she's boring.

00:20:34.260 She's boring.

00:20:35.520 This book is, this is why this book exists, my theory.

00:20:39.460 It is a complete act of revenge against the husband.

00:20:43.200 It is, this is the sole reason this book exists.

00:20:46.160 It is to punish the husband who had the temerity to leave her.

00:20:50.900 There's this moment in the book, again, she doesn't even hear herself.

00:20:54.320 She's so bloodthirsty for vengeance.

00:20:57.640 And she's like, you know what I'm going to do?

00:20:59.120 James is the name.

00:21:00.000 It's a pseudonym.

00:21:01.020 But you could Google the guy and find him.

00:21:02.560 Yeah.

00:21:02.860 You know what I'm going to do, James?

00:21:03.780 I'm happy to say his name.

00:21:04.700 He doesn't need any protection.

00:21:05.980 I'll find it and read it.

00:21:07.200 I actually didn't know.

00:21:08.080 It's Henry Patterson Davis.

00:21:10.620 He's a hedge fund executive.

00:21:11.720 She calls him James in the book.

00:21:13.980 And they've got three kids, as I point out.

00:21:15.500 So it's not just she hates him, but she's also hurting her kids with this.

00:21:17.980 Oh, and, you know, she dedicated the book to the children.

00:21:20.380 I'm sure their therapists are going to die to hear that little detail.

00:21:24.000 She says, I'm going to tell the kids that you're leaving me and we're getting a divorce.

00:21:28.800 And he's like, please don't do that.

00:21:30.740 Wait till I'm there and we can break the news together and try to minimize this trauma.

00:21:34.820 She's like, no, no, I'm going to do it.

00:21:36.740 I'm going to do it.

00:21:37.760 His boss calls her and says, don't do that.

00:21:41.120 I have been divorced too.

00:21:42.840 We have children.

00:21:44.020 That is a cruelty.

00:21:45.380 Let him be there.

00:21:46.600 And she says, you know what I decided to do?

00:21:48.700 I allowed for it.

00:21:50.020 And that boss gave James, loaned James, his seaplane and his pilot so James could get back forthwith and deliver the news.

00:21:59.340 It's like loaned, loaned, not just the plane, but the pilot as if the pilot is an object, not a person.

00:22:05.440 It's this kind of language that really just gives you insight into who she is.

00:22:09.080 That's how she grew up.

00:22:10.240 She went to Harvard undergrad and I think NYU law school.

00:22:15.700 She got this great job.

00:22:17.240 Again, I'm pretty sure it's Paul Weiss.

00:22:18.500 I read the book in January, but it's been a few months, but I'm pretty sure that's where she was working.

00:22:22.580 Might have been Davis Polk.

00:22:23.540 They're basically the same.

00:22:25.180 But like white shoe law firms where you make boatloads of dough.

00:22:28.240 She was in corporate law.

00:22:29.540 So she was in sort of the M&A deal making piece of the firm.

00:22:34.420 And half the book is about how she had no idea what she was going to do.

00:22:38.980 You know, he was going to leave her.

00:22:40.300 She gets $600,000 a year from him in child support only.

00:22:43.860 I mean, at minimum.

00:22:46.460 She undisclosed is her $67 million trust fund.

00:22:49.620 And on top of that, she's got a fucking law degree from NYU and an undergrad degree from Harvard.

00:22:56.900 I think she'll be OK.

00:22:59.080 Like it's the gall to ask us to feel sorry for her.

00:23:03.280 Like, where is my next meal coming from?

00:23:06.640 Maybe you should put a skirt on and go apply for.

00:23:10.460 It's called a J.O.B., bitches.

00:23:12.560 I can't stand disempowered women like this.

00:23:16.160 I'm not going to lie.

00:23:17.160 I can't stand them.

00:23:18.680 Go get a job.

00:23:20.360 Support yourself.

00:23:22.000 Stop with the boo fucking who for me because my husband is leaving me and no longer wants

00:23:28.060 to be my financial support net.

00:23:29.940 You know, I just, I hate how disempowering it is.

00:23:33.320 Well, the thing that also is really galling is she's out there saying, you know what I'm

00:23:36.720 doing?

00:23:37.380 I'm helping other women.

00:23:39.400 I'm your cautionary tale.

00:23:41.560 Don't leave all your finances to your husband.

00:23:44.340 Don't let him, you know,

00:23:45.260 this idea that she doesn't know how to balance a checkbook

00:23:47.180 and she has that kind of like education.

00:23:49.240 Went to Harvard.

00:23:49.940 And was in that kind of a high powered law firm.

00:23:52.020 I think what this woman's problem,

00:23:53.260 her real problem is,

00:23:54.640 she doesn't have a real passion in life.

00:23:56.900 And did you happen to see, by the way,

00:23:58.460 the Wall Street Journal ran this fascinating piece

00:24:00.860 over the weekend.

00:24:02.020 There are all of these like major seminars

00:24:04.800 that are dedicated to the children of massive wealth.

00:24:09.600 Oh yeah.

00:24:09.820 And they go, the billionaire children's go and learn how to stay billionaires.

00:24:14.760 Not just that, but how to find purpose, how to get out of their bubble.

00:24:19.400 Like one of the kids literally says, and they might be 28, it is funny, but like, you know

00:24:23.140 what I did do?

00:24:23.900 I put on a baseball cap and I rode the public bus.

00:24:26.280 Oh my God.

00:24:26.780 Like something I've never done.

00:24:28.600 And this is Belle Burden.

00:24:30.020 This is stuff she's never done.

00:24:32.080 I think when you're cosseted by that amount of wealth and privilege and access, and you

00:24:36.580 never have to fight for anything. Your back has never been up against the wall financially.

00:24:41.940 It saps you of a sense of finding something that you love so that when you do enter the workforce,

00:24:49.460 your job is a joy, right? I feel that way. I feel very lucky, but that's also because I didn't come

00:24:55.140 from anything. I would look at friends of mine as I entered my young adulthood in New York City,

00:25:01.560 and my roommates came from money

00:25:03.860 and they just had a completely different,

00:25:06.600 they were lost in a way.

00:25:08.240 Like I had a real direction

00:25:09.540 and I would always say to myself,

00:25:11.580 would I ever trade that?

00:25:12.940 Would I ever trade having like parents

00:25:15.660 who could bail me out versus having,

00:25:19.020 like being fundamentally lost

00:25:20.820 and casting about for what I wanted to do?

00:25:23.140 And it was a no brainer.

00:25:24.460 It was never would I change places.

00:25:26.480 Same, it created ambition.

00:25:28.700 I always wanted enough money

00:25:30.060 just so that I could, I told the audience this before,

00:25:33.100 but my dream was to be able to walk in a pottery barn

00:25:35.040 and just buy what I wanted, you know?

00:25:36.760 I love that.

00:25:37.360 And I remember when I got to that place in my career

00:25:40.100 and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing.

00:25:41.780 I can do it.

00:25:42.480 And I've learned now through the course of my career

00:25:44.180 for having, I had no money,

00:25:45.760 then I had like a decent amount of money

00:25:47.240 and then I had a good amount of money

00:25:48.660 that your happiness does not change the more money you get.

00:25:52.260 Once you get past the stage of,

00:25:54.480 I can pay my bills without feeling sick,

00:25:56.900 there is no difference in happiness.

00:25:58.580 Truly, there is none.

00:26:00.060 just get past the point where you don't feel sick when those bills come every month. I've been there

00:26:04.820 too. In my 20s, for sure, when I graduated from law school, I didn't know if I'd get a good job.

00:26:09.840 I was $100,000 in debt, which back then was more like $500,000 in debt. I had to pay it myself.

00:26:15.440 My mom had no money. I knew that I was going to have to take care of her too. And it was my dad

00:26:19.740 died. And it was stressful. I had this sick feeling. But once you get to the point where

00:26:24.740 like you can pay your mortgage or your rent, you can pay your utilities, you can pay for a car.

00:26:30.760 You know, I had a Toyota Corolla when I was first getting started in the law. It's the pressure's

00:26:35.300 off. So you don't, you don't need all those extra billions. I, the thirst, like the hunger came from

00:26:40.560 getting to that spot where the bills wouldn't be sickening and you could possibly have a little

00:26:47.020 extra. I was actually, Maureen, just looking through old journals just yesterday because a

00:26:51.320 friend of mine was going, is going through something and I had been through something

00:26:53.800 similar. I wanted to find my entry from back in the day. I have them back to when I was a kid.

00:26:58.560 Wow.

00:26:59.000 Yeah, they're stacked up.

00:27:00.000 Wow.

00:27:00.700 And I found this one entry. This is early on at my career at Fox, where I was doing my

00:27:06.280 finances. And I was like, if I can manage, you know, to like manage my money, I could potentially

00:27:11.780 get to the point where I have as much as $1,000 extra a month to spend. You know, like I'll have

00:27:17.000 real spending money, $1,000 a month. And I was so excited over it. I am no happier today than

00:27:22.140 i was that day more money generally creates more problems and like more things you have to worry

00:27:27.440 about i'm not saying it's not a blessing i'm just saying for people out there who think like a lot

00:27:30.980 of money is the be-all end-all it's not and this woman was too busy nurturing i don't know like her

00:27:38.160 sense of being a super mom which she doesn't necessarily sound like she was sounds like a

00:27:43.400 terrible mother i'm sorry this book is the act of a terrible mother i'm sorry and come and also

00:27:48.580 it's not a great mother super mom thing to do to forget to nurture your marriage and like the

00:27:54.620 institution that you're bringing the children up in like the loving family the core of what will

00:27:59.360 produce strong egos and you know abilities to handle themselves when adversity adversity comes

00:28:04.800 their way and instead of just a normal divorce where it's like it didn't work out we're still

00:28:07.960 gonna be in each other's lives she blows it up into this national story to where now Gwyneth

00:28:12.580 Paltrow's going to star in a Netflix movie about her shitty husband and her kids have got to see

00:28:19.500 that. Well, will she? Can Netflix go through with this? The whole premise of the book was blown up

00:28:25.160 by the New Yorker. The whole thing was blown up and she's an unreliable narrator, which is why I

00:28:30.640 don't believe anything she has to say about her marriage or her husband. She said he was going

00:28:35.580 to leave me with nothing. He was basically a sociopath. I was listening to, she did any number

00:28:41.100 of podcast interviews in which she said, what was it?

00:28:45.660 Oh, she was on the Foster Sisters one and they said, it sounds really like you were

00:28:50.380 married to a sociopath, you know?

00:28:52.640 What do you think about that?

00:28:53.640 And she says she was gleeful about it.

00:28:56.540 That's definitely what she wants us to think.

00:28:57.980 She says, well, you know, I wasn't allowed to put anything regarding mental health in

00:29:01.360 the book.

00:29:02.440 So she was like, I had to take some stuff out, which to me says she basically called

00:29:07.720 him a sociopath in the book and legal over at her publishers, which has another fire on their hands

00:29:15.140 with Amy Griffin, who accused a man everybody can identify in Amarillo, Texas of being a violent

00:29:21.140 child predator and brutal child rapist. They've got a real problem there. They were like, uh,

00:29:27.280 you can't, you can't call your husband a psychopath. And at least legal was on,

00:29:30.740 on alert that day. And by the way, the fact that he has no feelings left for you doesn't mean he

00:29:35.420 has no feelings exactly like a narcissist right right and like his his one statement he gave that

00:29:41.720 everybody's had to include when reporting on her book basically ends with you know i dispute her

00:29:46.620 characterizations of me in in this book and i and also i have a loving supportive relationship with

00:29:53.820 my children and they are loving and supportive of me as well like that was you could see that

00:29:58.520 was the one thing he was like don't go there like do not f with anything suggesting i haven't been

00:30:03.860 a supportive dad. And then she talks about in the book, she writes out how he made fun of her

00:30:09.840 one time. She was like, you're going to leave me with nothing. You're not going to let me have

00:30:13.700 the houses or whatever. And he responded in a mimicking voice like, poor Belle,

00:30:20.940 nothing ever goes her way. So you can hear the contempt. And this is her description of how he

00:30:26.620 spoke to her, the contempt he has for her. That doesn't develop overnight out of nothing. There's

00:30:32.600 a reason for that. And then the most famous story in the book that made the rounds that made a lot

00:30:38.840 of people want to read it was about the sandwich. All right. So when he goes back to the Martha's

00:30:45.820 Vineyard house to tell the children with her, he's having the conversation. He's got the plane

00:30:52.680 and the pilot waiting for him. And in the middle of telling the girls, like he's leaving their

00:30:59.520 mother, he looks at Belle, the mom, and he was like, starving. Can you make me a sandwich?

00:31:05.180 Which does make you hate him, right? You're like, well, you're a prick. And then she did it.

00:31:11.560 She did it. So you're like, oh my God, my skin's starting to crawl. Like this, this is not a

00:31:18.080 healthy couple at all. So the fact that he would ask her to make him a sandwich while he's leaving

00:31:23.140 her and delivering the breakup news is very bizarre and unhealthy. And I do give her credit

00:31:28.860 Because I think it was an aha moment for her in retrospect to realize she did it, that she did it.

00:31:35.240 And she describes in the book about how she just wanted to make that the best sandwich he'd ever eaten so that he would be like, how could I leave this woman who makes the amazing sandwiches?

00:31:46.480 Like they don't have help who makes sandwiches.

00:31:49.000 Sorry.

00:31:49.420 I don't believe they didn't have help in the house during COVID.

00:31:51.940 I don't even know if I believe this story.

00:31:53.900 Because, again, if she's going to lie about the big stuff, I can't trust her in any way.

00:31:58.860 There are bits of it that sound plagiarized to me, really.

00:32:01.640 Okay, so there's a very famous scene that has blown up into a cultural meme

00:32:07.620 surrounding a very popular Bravo reality show called Summer House.

00:32:11.820 And at the crux of that fight between a boyfriend and a girlfriend

00:32:14.660 or an engaged couple breaking up was a sandwich.

00:32:17.520 A sandwich.

00:32:18.680 Now, Belle, at another point in the book, finds herself on the bathroom floor.

00:32:23.680 Her husband's leaving her, and she cannot get herself up off,

00:32:26.420 not just any floor, it's the bathroom floor. Elizabeth Gilbert in Eat, Pray, Love,

00:32:31.960 the cultural cancer that is Eat, Pray, Love. I love when you talk about this.

00:32:36.260 Elizabeth Gilbert. She opens that book and she is on the bathroom floor of her well-tended New

00:32:43.800 Jersey home at 3 a.m. and she cannot get herself off. And she's like a 28-year-old healthy woman.

00:32:49.580 And why? She has come to the conclusion she must leave her husband. Does she know why? She does

00:32:54.740 not is the guy a bad guy no in fact he's a great guy he makes a nice living he loves her he's in

00:33:00.760 love with her nothing's wrong with him she just wants to leave and she doesn't know why spends

00:33:05.180 that book vilifying the husband who everybody identified you know what i mean yeah there are

00:33:09.500 these tracks that are just so parallel on the floor of her closet great primal scream every

00:33:16.760 everyone's on the floor in these megan markle is on the floor waiting for harry to come home

00:33:21.820 at least drew barrymore actually gets down on the floor we can see her doing it so we know in her

00:33:27.740 case it's legit um i want to play some of the sound bites because the audience by this point

00:33:32.080 is kind of like let me have a look at this gal let's play thought 21 this is bell burden on oprah

00:33:36.920 you just brought up finances i wanted to say this i hear a lot of women a lot of women have made a

00:33:42.740 similar mistake as you did, allowing your spouses to handle all the finances. And you write on page

00:33:53.360 95 about, I lost touch with both the big picture and the details of our financial life, depending

00:34:01.440 on James to tell me what to do. I felt some shame about it, about not being involved, about not

00:34:07.360 asking questions, but I was afraid I wouldn't understand it, that it was too complicated for me,

00:34:13.140 even though I was a former corporate lawyer. I settled into the vagueness, the luxury,

00:34:19.380 and privilege of not knowing. What do you want to say to all the women doing that right now?

00:34:25.540 If my book does one thing, if it makes women pay more attention to their finances and what's going

00:34:31.720 on in their relationship or their marriage financially, I will be so happy because I

00:34:37.220 think I'm not alone in what I did.

00:34:40.240 I mean, truly, who is she talking to?

00:34:42.380 Like the 0.0001%.

00:34:45.500 Yes, virtually all women are paying attention to the finances.

00:34:50.580 They have to help pay them.

00:34:52.780 Usually women are the check writers and the bill payers.

00:34:55.880 And the purchasers.

00:34:57.040 Yeah.

00:34:57.480 So like she sees herself as our like, you know, our underdog.

00:35:01.720 here to save the day. We're way ahead of you, Belle. We actually do. Most of us work and pay

00:35:07.640 the bills. And it's not unfamiliar to bust out a checkbook or go online and pay our bills. Like

00:35:12.360 I really, if this does one thing, I'll let it be that. And let me give you a similar one. She goes

00:35:17.680 on with, um, this is Drew Barrymore, right? Uh, is it 22B? I think, yeah, let's play that one.

00:35:25.740 I want this to be an incredible tutorial on how we as women can really give up the power and find themselves in scenarios where they are very financially hurt.

00:35:41.500 Absolutely. And if I am a cautionary tale on this one subject, I am happy with that.

00:35:46.700 OK, because I really I think you've given a scout's guide for how women can approach the financials in their marital life in a way that protects them.

00:35:58.460 I really kind of got very comfortable in not knowing and put you in a terrible position.

00:36:05.000 It did. I was really at risk of losing my financial security.

00:36:10.340 Here's your scout's guide. Have a sixty three million dollar trust fund.

00:36:15.880 63, I said 67 earlier, I think it's 63.

00:36:19.200 45 million of which comes from a trust

00:36:21.460 from your father, Carter Burden's estate.

00:36:24.620 Tell everyone that you don't know

00:36:26.060 how you're gonna make ends meet

00:36:27.180 when you're earning $800,000 a year.

00:36:30.340 Apparently that was her income in 2019.

00:36:33.480 That was her income.

00:36:34.880 So I think that's over and above

00:36:36.220 what the husband was giving in the 600,000

00:36:38.340 because this is before he left her.

00:36:39.840 He left her in 2020.

00:36:41.460 This is 2019, she earned $800,000.

00:36:45.060 in income and had $10 million in assets that the husband had no claim to, reports the free press.

00:36:52.660 They had a Tribeca apartment that last year was listed for just under $12 million. They had

00:36:59.000 purchased it for four, so that's $8 million in change. All of this is, this is how she's our

00:37:05.540 cautionary tale, Maury. She's our cautionary tale. You know, you look at her with Oprah in particular,

00:37:10.680 everything about this tableau bell is on cream upon cream upon cream we're virginal we're just

00:37:16.820 innocent the big bad wolf came and got me and she's smiling ear to ear she's so excited to tell

00:37:24.460 her tale of whoa there's not a tear there we're on oprah megan we're sitting across from oprah

00:37:31.240 we've done it we did it we accomplished something mommy do you love me now and then

00:37:36.640 Yes, look at them.

00:37:37.760 Cream on cream.

00:37:38.480 You're right.

00:37:39.000 Cream everywhere.

00:37:40.140 Oh, and so she's like, yeah, I didn't understand.

00:37:44.040 You know, I left it all to him.

00:37:45.320 I do not buy this fundamental premise at all.

00:37:47.940 A woman who comes from that level of wealth has had a team of accountants and lawyers and money managers since birth.

00:37:54.700 Since birth.

00:37:56.540 Yeah, sorry.

00:37:57.380 Don't buy it.

00:37:58.200 She's upset because they have a prenup.

00:38:00.400 And the prenup that she willingly signed said that you keep what you come into the marriage with.

00:38:06.260 And the normal rule, the default for a prenup would be you keep what you come into the marriage with, and then monies that are earned during the course of the marriage will be divided between the two parties in some shape or form, but it'll be divided.

00:38:20.780 And he said, I don't want that.

00:38:23.060 You keep what you came into the marriage with, but I think we should keep what we earn.

00:38:28.420 Like, he was only making $200,000 a year.

00:38:31.320 Now, I say only just because he wound up, you know, very rich at a hedge fund.

00:38:34.320 when he signed that prenup.

00:38:36.440 So he didn't know, in his defense,

00:38:38.480 he didn't know he was going to make it big

00:38:39.720 at a hedge fund.

00:38:40.760 He was a lawyer, just like she was.

00:38:42.120 He didn't come from money either, did he?

00:38:43.300 He came from no money.

00:38:44.020 That's why this marriage initially kind of worked

00:38:46.860 because let's face it,

00:38:48.540 it's like some people marry for love

00:38:50.200 and some people, especially from this kind of wealth,

00:38:53.220 choose other things.

00:38:54.840 For her, this guy was,

00:38:56.820 she thought he was kind of sexy.

00:38:58.260 He was dynamic.

00:38:59.620 He was an up and coming lawyer at the same firm she was,

00:39:02.460 who I think was a little bit senior to her.

00:39:04.320 So there's that dynamic of, wow, he's important.

00:39:07.460 And he was a mover and a shaker who was clearly going places.

00:39:11.600 For him, he was, I don't know if he was from the wrong side of the tracks exactly, but he had no pedigree like she did.

00:39:17.140 Right.

00:39:17.380 She had the family background, connection to the Vanderbilts, the famous grandma, the mother too, was high up in the Bloomberg administration.

00:39:24.360 And she had the $70 million trust fund, which we just learned about.

00:39:29.180 And so she could connect him to the right people because he apparently all along wanted to get into leave the law and be a hedge fund guy, which is where the big bucks are.

00:39:38.220 But it's hard to do unless you have the right connections.

00:39:41.300 And she did.

00:39:42.300 So clearly he was using her to some extent.

00:39:45.520 And look, she went into it when he when they met at the law firm, he was dating somebody else.

00:39:50.900 So it's how she.

00:39:51.960 Oh, that's right.

00:39:52.540 She was too.

00:39:53.360 So it started a little like, all right, you lose them how you get them.

00:39:57.360 Like, be careful how you get them.

00:39:58.600 Here's the other thing that she writes about in the book, which I, oh, by the way, I forgot one of her ancestors, John Jay.

00:40:04.420 Oh.

00:40:06.080 Okay.

00:40:07.360 We have Roger Sherman on Doug's side.

00:40:09.540 Who's that?

00:40:10.060 He signed the Constitution.

00:40:11.240 He's one of our founding fathers.

00:40:12.320 Or the Declaration.

00:40:13.560 Yeah.

00:40:13.840 Oh, that's amazing.

00:40:14.540 I know.

00:40:14.940 It's so fun.

00:40:16.340 We should have named Stradwick Sherman.

00:40:18.480 Well, there's, I'm sure that another dog will find his way.

00:40:21.480 Oh, no, there will be no other dog.

00:40:23.180 Oh, really?

00:40:23.360 Well, maybe in the distant, distant future.

00:40:26.240 Anyway, keep going.

00:40:27.080 Earmark that name.

00:40:28.460 So she writes about him.

00:40:31.120 This is the allure he had for her.

00:40:33.800 This may have been transactional, but I don't think it was just one way.

00:40:37.060 He had a little bit of danger to him.

00:40:39.460 He lived downtown.

00:40:41.280 He introduced her to nightclubs and rock venues down there.

00:40:46.800 She was like, oh, my first show.

00:40:48.400 I wasn't cool.

00:40:49.720 This guy was kind of cool.

00:40:50.740 My brother was cool.

00:40:51.600 This guy was kind of cool.

00:40:52.360 He had a roommate who had like a drug problem, which to someone like for that's like, oh, we're now we're down at the zoo.

00:40:58.540 I get to look at this like this.

00:41:00.300 I get to feel a little bit cool, you know.

00:41:02.420 So she I think that that was an attraction for her.

00:41:05.720 And I think, you know, I didn't know that actually that it's really hard to break into the hedge fund world if you don't come from that world.

00:41:12.940 Well, because you need access to rich people, you know, that's how you get them to invest with you.

00:41:17.920 And if you've got the connections, if you're in the social register, which is a thing, it's actually a very funny thing.

00:41:24.900 My college roommate, who I adored, she was in the social register.

00:41:28.260 She had gone to Princeton Day School, which is a day school that's a private school in Princeton.

00:41:33.140 And at the time, this is, of course, back in the late 80s, early 90s.

00:41:37.440 I'm like, how much was that?

00:41:38.240 And it was $15,000 a year, which is what Syracuse would cost.

00:41:40.860 And I was like, your parents paid $15,000 a year for you to go to high school?

00:41:43.600 You wound up the same place I did?

00:41:45.400 I'm like, my parents paid nothing, just the taxes.

00:41:47.560 And I wound up here.

00:41:48.860 I don't think Princeton Day School worked out,

00:41:50.340 but we always had a good laugh over that.

00:41:52.020 But she was in the social register.

00:41:53.980 She was like, and she would show it to me.

00:41:55.900 And it's like, you list the name of your boat.

00:41:58.980 The little boys are referred to as master,

00:42:01.680 master so-and-so.

00:42:03.140 Wow.

00:42:03.640 It shows all the lineage

00:42:04.700 because these people tend to inbreed,

00:42:06.880 you know, like they want to stay amongst their own.

00:42:08.540 Right.

00:42:09.060 They don't really want to welcome a Maureen Callahan

00:42:12.140 or a Megyn Kelly at all.

00:42:13.780 That's cool with me.

00:42:14.800 Yeah, no, it's fine.

00:42:15.720 They want like their own.

00:42:17.580 You have to have the right lineage, the right pedigree.

00:42:21.320 You know, the blue bloods want to create more blue bloods.

00:42:23.420 So for him to have broken in there, that was a big plus for him.

00:42:28.140 You know, even though-

00:42:28.980 This is great insight into a lot of the source of the rage

00:42:32.100 and why we have to publicly burn the husband down.

00:42:34.940 Yeah.

00:42:35.880 She gave him, in her mind, you're not there without me.

00:42:40.720 She's not wrong.

00:42:41.660 And you used me.

00:42:42.860 you now she knew the using was obvious but you know but they they also had kids together there

00:42:49.400 must have been love there at some point oh my favorite thing she goes uh you know what really

00:42:54.420 what really really um was just so dastardly was we had just ordered a new bed and it was a very

00:43:00.360 expensive mattress very expensive it was a sleeve number which they advertise on television you know

00:43:07.260 there are really expensive mattresses that go for like two hundred thousand dollars oh my i didn't

00:43:12.260 know that it's a sleep match like elon musk buys those uh it's a sleep mattress and uh yeah one

00:43:18.180 side can be firm and the other side can be soft and once you know it's like nasa technology and

00:43:23.600 she's like oh in our bed frame it was really a bitch to get that thing on the bed frame like as

00:43:27.420 if she can't just have a custom bed frame you know what i mean yeah it's like her gripes are so

00:43:32.280 outer limits oh at some point i can't remember whether i read this in the book or heard her

00:43:38.300 say this on an interview, but she was talking about how their wine collection is worth so much

00:43:45.360 money. They have to keep it off site. It's not even at their home and their art too. They've

00:43:51.820 got some crazy ass amount of like valuable art. That's what the super rich do. And that was my

00:43:58.140 first clue that I should really stop listening to this woman's tale of woe.

00:44:01.540 So like the climate controlled warehouse for the Rothko's, but now to see the numbers,

00:44:11.100 I mean, the New Yorker to its credit did a deep dive on like all the finances and it's

00:44:15.140 really, it's stunning that the, uh, yeah, the $5.4 million home in Martha's Vineyard,

00:44:20.620 the place in Tribeca, which they just sold for 12 million, but bought for four.

00:44:23.560 So that's an $8 million profit, um, her overall $63 million in assets and trusts.

00:44:29.400 Again, you might say, well, that's tied up.

00:44:30.900 I don't know. I'm not a trust baby, a trust fund baby, but okay, let's say most of that's tied up

00:44:35.960 and she can't touch it for some time. By the way, they say it's hers. So if she's sharing it with

00:44:41.620 siblings, they don't mention that. They say that that's her 63 million she inherited. But on top

00:44:46.700 of that, she's got these degrees. She was making $800,000 a year in 2019. There's some asterisks

00:44:52.680 saying, well, that was an especially good year for her because she sold something that was worth

00:44:56.340 $200,000. All right, well, that leaves $600,000. Again, this is before the $600,000 per year she

00:45:01.180 was getting from the husband for child custody. So clearly she's doing something. And you know

00:45:05.040 how it is when you have a lot of money like that. Money begets money. People will pay you all sorts

00:45:10.480 of money for whatever. You can start some stupid ass business and you've got all these rich people

00:45:14.620 who are used to just giving money to each other. It's not that hard. So in any event, yet another

00:45:19.380 embarrassment for this publication. Hold on a second. Let me see if I can find. I'd love to

00:45:25.340 find the name of the publication. I had it in here someplace that actually put this out the same as

00:45:30.880 the one that did The Tell. Oh yeah, here it is. Dial Press. And in particular, there's an editor

00:45:37.580 there named Whitney Frick. And she also did Amy Griffin's book, The Tell. The same editor did both

00:45:45.600 books. And she defended The Tell when it came out that Amy was being accused of fabricating the

00:45:52.680 whole thing and stealing another woman's story, which she denies. They came out and said the

00:45:58.040 following, book publishers are not investigators. This is Amy's story. We trust her and all of our

00:46:06.240 authors that they are recounting their memories truthfully. This is so pathetic. What do you mean?

00:46:15.180 You've disparaged and defamed this guy, James, whose real name I just said a minute ago,

00:46:20.860 you've disparaged and defamed essentially the teacher down in Texas in Mr. Mason yeah

00:46:26.620 Amarillo where Amy Griffin's from what do you mean you they are we trust them that they are

00:46:32.280 recounting their memories truthfully that's how you get sued like that what a shirking of all

00:46:38.400 burden and especially in Amy's case and now in Bell Burden's once it comes out from an in-depth

00:46:44.020 investigation the Times has done two on Amy Griffin and the New Yorker's now done one on

00:46:48.680 Bell Burden, don't these publishers have a responsibility to go back and say, we feel

00:46:55.120 the need to add a note at the beginning of this publication, that we've misled you actively

00:47:01.160 in something that's supposed to be a memoir, like a truthful recitation of one's life.

00:47:05.960 This is not nonfiction.

00:47:07.620 This is not fiction, I should say.

00:47:09.420 And same for Oprah and Gwyneth and the others who whitewashed these stories, Maureen.

00:47:16.060 that statement from the publisher sounds to me like a cover your ass statement because they all

00:47:22.860 have legal departments this is like you wouldn't know this unless you're writing a book whether

00:47:28.020 it's fiction non-fiction a memoir well fiction is fiction okay non-fiction so ask not i wrote about

00:47:34.200 a large number of the girls and women i wrote about are no longer with us yeah the law in

00:47:39.200 America is you cannot defame the dead. And yet I had legal eyes on that book from inside the

00:47:46.620 publisher eight ways to Sunday on top of also paying. They don't fact check it per se. They

00:47:51.880 just try to protect themselves from a lawsuit. As the author, it's prudent to spend your money

00:47:58.420 to hire an outside fact checker to make sure that everything you've got your eyes dotted,

00:48:03.780 et cetera. That's a cover your ass statement. They're trying to say, we didn't have a lawyer.

00:48:07.600 Look at that. It's a memoir. We just got to trust the writer. That's all on her. She's getting sued.

00:48:12.600 We're indemnified, which they're not. And how this woman has a job still. I know. Out of my mind.

00:48:17.660 Honestly, like beware if Whitney Frick is the editor on your book, that's her attitude,

00:48:22.200 apparently toward truth or falsity. And what's being billed is a true story in the form of a

00:48:26.780 memoir. So good luck with that. Gwyneth, good luck with your project on Netflix. Now, I do want to

00:48:32.880 talk about a book that deserves to be on the New York Times bestseller list, because I just want to

00:48:36.560 tell you quickly. My husband, Doug Brunt, his book, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel is crushing

00:48:42.940 it. It's doing really well. Amazing. And it's very hard to say this for any book. The reviews

00:48:48.340 have been uniformly raves. He's gotten such great reviews on this and it's selling well too.

00:48:55.960 And I just wanted to read one to you. You'll hear what it's about in this review, but this guy,

00:49:01.440 we don't know him. His name is Steve Eubanks, and he wrote a very long, great review. Not very long,

00:49:06.900 but a nice in-depth review, and I'll read you some of it. He goes on, first of all, that the best

00:49:12.820 nonfiction writers are ones who started in fiction because they know how to tell a tale. They know

00:49:17.920 how to spin a story for you so that it's interesting. And then they can use those

00:49:22.340 same storytelling abilities when they write the nonfiction work, which is exactly what Doug did.

00:49:26.880 so he says yeah the biggest compliment you can give a narrative non-fiction book is it reads

00:49:32.520 like fiction enter doug brunt who had a best-selling fiction catalog before shifting

00:49:36.560 gears with the wildly successful the mysterious case of rudolph diesel which i praised to the

00:49:41.260 rooftops when it hit but there's always the risk of a sophomore slump many great writers have one

00:49:46.140 book in them the follow-up always tells the tale well fear not brunt's newest book the lost empire

00:49:52.300 of Emanuel Nobel is at least as good, if not better, than his first. Like Diesel, most people

00:49:57.560 only know the name Nobel because of Emanuel's uncle Alfred, the inventor of dynamite who created

00:50:01.920 the Nobel Prize. But what you don't know is that Alfred did not conjure his invention out of some

00:50:07.520 dream. His father, Emanuel, was an explosives expert who created the first contact mine, blah,

00:50:13.020 blah, blah. There wouldn't be a Nobel Prize if not for Emanuel, however, who stood up to the

00:50:18.640 king of Sweden and wanted the family to contest, which wanted the family to contest

00:50:23.000 Alford's will. And then he goes on to talk about learning stuff in school that it turns out was

00:50:28.400 not true at all, how Doug disproves it in this book. He says, this is not just a book about an

00:50:32.820 industrialist, although it would be excellent if that was its only storyline. This is the most

00:50:37.340 fascinating history you will ever read about the Romanovs, Rasputin, Lenin, and especially Joseph

00:50:43.980 Stalin. Brunt takes you places your history professors dared not tread for fear of ticking

00:50:49.280 off cranky old commie department heads with dandruff on the shoulders and their tweed jackets

00:50:54.140 and teeth the color of not good hide. I don't know who that is, but it sounds fun. If you want

00:50:59.420 the real story of the Russian Revolution, its devastating impact on the Russian people, Europe

00:51:03.000 and the rest of the world, read this book. And then here's just one more. There's more though,

00:51:08.180 he says. Brunt never writes this. The best ones don't. But the subtext of Nobel is that the

00:51:13.460 revolutionary impulses that darkened Eastern Europe and led to 70 years of death haven't gone

00:51:19.200 away. And he goes on just talking about how timely the book is. He says, read this book and recommend

00:51:24.520 it to others. You won't regret it. That's incredible. So sweet. Such a good one.

00:51:29.860 That's incredible. That's so exciting. You know, we're lucky enough we have Doug on the nerve

00:51:34.120 tomorrow. Oh, yay. Which I'm really excited about. And I was really thinking about it,

00:51:38.400 You know, because when he left a copy of the book for me the last time I was here and he prefaced it by saying, you know, I don't necessarily think it's your thing, but I'm just going to leave it for you.

00:51:48.720 And that was really sweet.

00:51:50.680 But I was really I was thinking about him and Nobel and I had obviously read some of the book and loving it.

00:51:59.060 But I was like, we write about very different things, but we definitely have a similar interest as authors.

00:52:05.420 And that is in hidden parts of history.

00:52:07.960 Yeah. And people lost to history and there's nothing more fun, whether you're a writer or

00:52:12.520 a reader in digging that up. And you both have a great gift of a writer, which is an economy

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00:54:56.380 Oh my goodness, Belle.

00:54:58.820 We got some talking to do, girl.

00:55:01.920 I see that you've marked the book up.

00:55:03.980 I have marked the book.

00:55:05.520 I wanted to do this book because there are so many friends

00:55:08.740 that I've had who've gone through this.

00:55:10.940 And I feel like I've gone through it with them.

00:55:13.580 Yes.

00:55:13.980 you are every woman that you have written the manual for every woman this is the this is book

00:55:20.620 is just it's a memoir of marriage but it's also a memoir of every woman who's gone through divorce

00:55:25.340 you are every woman oprah is so out of touch i mean this is i i have to recant because the other

00:55:33.320 day you know i know you did this as well gail on call her daddy yeah with the finding the friend

00:55:39.080 in bed with the husband and you know my producer marlena and i we went through it together and i

00:55:44.800 was kind of like i can't help but like oprah in this moment she's being a good friend she's like

00:55:49.900 what do you mean he's driving your best friend who we just fucked to the train station what are

00:55:53.760 you talking about and i'm like everybody does need an oprah and then i see that and i'm like no no

00:55:59.220 no more catch yourself before you go any further you are every woman really really really no we

00:56:07.120 We were just talking in the break about what what makes us resent this woman.

00:56:10.480 And I was saying I can't stand the fact that she took a spot at Harvard and NYU law and and apparently just use them, those spots and those degrees to get her MRS degree, which is what she really wanted.

00:56:23.780 And there's nothing wrong with getting wanting to be a wife and a mother.

00:56:26.820 Stop taking up other people's spots at these institutions if that's what your goal is.

00:56:32.960 It pisses me off because there are a lot of young men and young women who would kill to get a spot at one of those institutions and then would use it to actually make a difference in this world and then sit around after, you know, the husband leaves you because you got uninteresting and you let yourself go and you were already boring to begin with.

00:56:51.280 You gave up the one thing that would have given you something to discuss when you came at the dinner party, dinner table at night and say, I don't know how to make ends meet.

00:56:59.300 Like use your damn degree, go practice law, hang out your shingle, do something like the

00:57:05.380 ineptitude, the, the helplessness, the feigned helplessness projects a weakness that I really

00:57:13.240 abhor.

00:57:14.720 Here's another theory of the case.

00:57:16.960 What if she's not that bright?

00:57:18.960 What if she's a good student and could do the memorization and test taking and had all

00:57:23.700 the top tutors to help her through and all of the special dispensations.

00:57:27.780 and then she got a nice cushy job

00:57:29.800 because of who her parents were.

00:57:31.500 But what if she's not that bright?

00:57:33.640 She's clearly not an original thinker.

00:57:35.760 She couldn't even craft a story

00:57:37.260 that could hold up to scrutiny for more than a year.

00:57:39.760 As soon as the New Yorker took one look at it

00:57:41.800 and was like, why don't I check the marital assets?

00:57:44.460 Although, you know, my theory is that he gave the financial,

00:57:48.640 he gave the divorce settlement

00:57:49.640 or like papers from the divorce proceeding to the New Yorker.

00:57:52.200 I think you're dead on.

00:57:53.380 I'm sure he was sick of this narrative.

00:57:55.320 Like, who does she think she's kidding?

00:57:56.820 Of course. And he's got to run around New York City circles with this on his back. His reputation counts for something in the world he's in. You're asking people to trust you with great amounts of wealth. And she's out here trying to assassinate his characters, trying to fuck with his life in every way possible.

00:58:15.060 And every woman on the talk show circuit line has bought it hook, line, and sinker.

00:58:22.720 The Oprah treatment, the Gwyneth treatment, the Drew treatment, now the Netflix treatment.

00:58:29.440 And this poor guy is like, you know what?

00:58:32.180 It was a complicated marriage.

00:58:33.420 I choose not to say anything because he's smart.

00:58:36.460 He realizes coming out there and saying, let me tell you what a nightmare Belle was.

00:58:40.860 It's not going to win him any fans.

00:58:43.160 It's not going to win him all these women who now hate him back over.

00:58:46.820 He had an affair.

00:58:47.780 But again, what preceded it?

00:58:49.700 What was going on in the marriage?

00:58:51.100 That's really not disclosed.

00:58:52.360 She makes it sound like, oh, it's just a total surprise.

00:58:54.420 And then these quiet admissions about letting herself go, not being interesting, not going out, not having sex, not doing whatever.

00:59:00.860 Okay, so enough about Bell Burden, but this is the greatest book promo she's had.

00:59:05.920 Okay, I want to talk about CBS News.

00:59:09.200 Wow, a lot of drama over there.

00:59:12.120 So I didn't realize that now in the wake of like bloody Sunday, they only have three correspondents left.

00:59:20.260 It's Bill Whitaker, Leslie Stahl, and some other guy who's like a sports guy over there.

00:59:25.620 I can't remember his name.

00:59:26.700 That's it.

00:59:27.880 Everyone's been fired.

00:59:29.660 Barry Weiss fired the executive producer.

00:59:32.500 She fired the top two female correspondents.

00:59:35.080 Anderson Cooper quit.

00:59:36.920 Obviously, he was not in line with the new management.

00:59:39.240 He chalked it up to all my busy life.

00:59:42.120 But the timing was not accidental, just as the Ellisons took over CBS and they came under all this scrutiny, each are trying.

00:59:48.480 It's funny because there's a divide.

00:59:49.620 You know, the left wing thinks that Barry and the Ellisons are trying to Trumpify CBS, and that's why they're leaving and no longer watching.

00:59:56.360 I disagree with that.

00:59:57.720 I think the Ellisons would like to make CBS somewhat more Trump friendly because they want an end with the administration.

01:00:02.880 They want the administration to approve all of their mergers.

01:00:06.300 Barry can't stand Trump.

01:00:07.380 Barry is a non-woke Trump-hating liberal, which is fine.

01:00:12.280 That's who she is.

01:00:13.020 But, like, Barry's definitely not trying to, like, do more and more pieces that fluff Trump.

01:00:19.620 She may be trying to inject a little bit more fair and balance into the 60 Minutes pieces here and there.

01:00:23.880 I'm sure that's what Scott Pelley objected to.

01:00:26.920 That's not a bad goal, right?

01:00:28.540 60 has gotten so far left.

01:00:30.580 Scott Pelley, Leslie Stahl, they all hate Trump.

01:00:33.200 That guy Bill Whitaker, the fluffing he did of Kamala Harris in that one ridiculous interview.

01:00:36.920 Like, they're not wrong that 60 Minutes has a bias problem and it leans left.

01:00:42.520 My issue about how this shit is going down, Maureen, is, of course, Scott Pelley is a prig and deserved to be canned long ago.

01:00:49.300 He's totally unrelatable and he's very biased.

01:00:51.840 However, irrespective of the fact that what they're trying to do in, like, fixing the editorial over there, you know, I think as somebody on the right side is something that's laudable, they're not handling it well.

01:01:03.260 Whenever the drama of inside your company blows up to the point where it is a multiple-day story on every news outlet in the country, you've done something wrong.

01:01:15.560 You haven't managed your talent and your off-air talent well at all, and it's part of what a good leader does.

01:01:23.160 Yesterday I was explaining Roger Ailes and how whenever he had to demote somebody or lateral move somebody, he always made it seem, both to them, and they'd know, but definitely to the outside world, like it was a promotion.

01:01:37.880 And he would put personal skin in the game to make sure it looked like that because he cared about his people.

01:01:43.700 Sometimes you're not making it in the ratings.

01:01:46.620 That's unfortunate, but he wouldn't fire you.

01:01:49.560 I mean, honestly, he did it to Gretchen Carlson.

01:01:51.740 She was hosting Fox and Friends.

01:01:53.400 That wasn't working out.

01:01:54.780 She wasn't fun.

01:01:56.660 And so he gave her her own solo show in the middle of the day.

01:02:01.520 No offense to Gretchen.

01:02:02.640 I was in the middle of the day solo too.

01:02:04.880 But it actually was a promotion for me.

01:02:06.520 And I wound up going from there to the prime time.

01:02:08.920 With Gretchen, it wasn't because Fox and Friends was one of our highest rated shows.

01:02:12.140 And she wasn't working on it.

01:02:14.360 But he made it look like it was good.

01:02:16.920 He gave her her staff.

01:02:18.040 She got to name it what she wanted, whatever.

01:02:19.620 I wasn't just thinking of her. There are many people who did this too. And then they don't run

01:02:24.160 to the news media and start complaining. Now she wound up complaining about him in a different way.

01:02:29.580 But my point is simply when it's spilling out like this with this drama and now the other,

01:02:34.000 the last remaining three are threatening to quit, something's gone very, very wrong in the way that

01:02:39.160 the problems are being managed over there. What's your take? Well, you and I have been talking about

01:02:42.660 this for a while, ever since she took over. And I remember saying to you that what I have heard

01:02:47.280 is that very like impeccable source uh barry's terrible at managing people terrible she was

01:02:55.060 terrible at the free press you know she she's very lucky that the ellisons came according

01:02:59.980 because the free press started off as very buzzy and kind of electric and then it just

01:03:05.400 it fell flat like nobody talks about it anymore at all were leaving the staff morale was

01:03:12.200 terrible. She doesn't listen to anybody. She's busy having dinners over at Bill Ackman's private

01:03:18.200 residence being told what a genius she is, you know? And so she, you know, and I remember saying

01:03:22.960 to you, like, you can't go in and fire the entire newsroom. Like your job coming in is to have a

01:03:28.340 little bit of humility and say, you know, what can I learn from you? What can you tell me about

01:03:32.400 this storied institution? You know? And when you've got like people who are, Leslie Stahl is

01:03:36.900 like 84 years old. She's going to be like, I don't need this. I don't like, you're going to

01:03:41.100 have an empty roster i mean my problem with 60 minutes is that it's just gone soft like mike

01:03:46.180 since the days of mike wallace it is murderers row what it used to be a murderers row what it's

01:03:51.580 amazing what a compliment to be when i was at the post somebody was like you're on murderers row and

01:03:56.520 i was like deeply thankful yeah you know that's a real bad compliment they were great you want to

01:04:02.200 be on murderers row and now it's like they're doing softballs of like let's go visit adele

01:04:06.660 in her mansion. You know, it's like, who cares? What is this thing doing? Why does it exist?

01:04:10.380 So Barry goes in there and one of the first things she does is steals an on-air opportunity

01:04:17.640 from one of the correspondents by doing that town hall with Erica Kirk, which bombed. I'm sorry,

01:04:24.420 but there is, I've said this before, more to broadcast journalism than just the journalism

01:04:30.220 piece. Barry, with all due respect, is not a television personality at all in any way. She's

01:04:35.740 not. And she failed. It was a miserable exchange. Erica is a very interesting person. Love her or

01:04:43.260 hate her. And I realize there are a lot of people there who feel strongly about Erica. I love her.

01:04:48.120 She's interesting. You could make an interesting interview with her. You know what I mean? Like

01:04:51.700 you could definitely go to very, but Barry chose her favorite issues and tried to zero in on those

01:04:59.280 without realizing those don't have mass appeal and, and also stole the on-air opportunity from

01:05:05.280 an on-air talent. You never saw Roger Ailes doing his own interview. You didn't see Chris Licht or

01:05:12.140 Jeff Zucker, the bosses at CNN sequentially, go take the big interviews from Anderson Cooper or

01:05:19.180 Caitlin Collins. Most people have no idea who's been running MSNBC all these years because that

01:05:24.500 person would never swoop in and do the job of the on-air talent. Barry Weiss did that because Barry

01:05:31.760 Weiss wants to be a star like you said and I'm sorry whatever you think of Barry Weiss let me

01:05:37.220 tell you that the on-air talent don't like her and they don't appreciate this bullshit so she

01:05:42.940 swoops in she's going to rule with an iron fist there's a report out today that she said to David

01:05:47.080 Ellison the son of Larry uh what's your what's your tolerance for pain and he said hi and so

01:05:54.000 they fired Scott Pelley then played the tough guy like yeah yo bitch you're out of here Scott Pelley

01:05:59.860 And no one's crying any tears over Scott Pelley, but on the, on the heels of firing Sharon

01:06:04.320 Alfonsi, the other woman, the executive producer who they just lost an executive producer.

01:06:09.900 This was the new executive producer.

01:06:12.360 So three women, by the way, last week fired in one fell swoop.

01:06:17.440 Then Scott Pelley, that's four in seven days.

01:06:21.020 And he came out, Scott Pelley said that he said to Barry in front of the staff, why did

01:06:28.400 you fire the executive producer of the show and she was like i'm not answering that question okay

01:06:33.820 you can do that you can say i don't owe anybody an explanation he's like why did you fire sharon

01:06:37.500 i'm not answering that question why'd you find it i'm not answering that question what you can

01:06:43.000 play hardball all you want what is that going to do to the existing morale within cbs news within

01:06:50.160 60 minutes it's going to make everyone hate you you won't even say why that's their boss that's

01:06:57.400 their boss, but that's their colleague with whom they've been building this show now for many

01:07:01.520 months during a tumultuous time. And all they know is you've canned her. It makes everybody

01:07:06.440 feel unsteady. I'm sorry, but there's a way to handle people. And she doesn't know what it is.

01:07:11.700 And clearly neither do the Ellicents. They're enjoying their little two minutes of power. Like,

01:07:16.080 yeah, my tolerance for pain is high. Fuck them. Fuck all of them. Let's red wedding them,

01:07:21.380 you know, from Game of Thrones. And you can feel really good about yourself for a while

01:07:26.460 until you see the bad ink start to pop up

01:07:29.500 in publication after publication after publication

01:07:32.300 and people like Steve Croft start to come out,

01:07:35.360 who was part of Murderer's Row,

01:07:37.060 and say, what are you doing?

01:07:39.660 He says 60 Minutes is a shadow of its former self.

01:07:42.020 He's like, he says it no longer exists.

01:07:44.800 Yeah, sorry, it was an interview with New York Magazine.

01:07:46.660 The firings are too substantial.

01:07:48.540 It seems almost impossible for me to imagine

01:07:50.380 what kind of a show they can put on in September.

01:07:53.660 It is very difficult for me to imagine a world

01:07:55.620 without 60 Minutes, or a show like 60 Minutes, which is not afraid to take on the government,

01:08:00.600 you see the timidity all across the broadcast schedule right now. And all of this is self-created.

01:08:08.520 It's self-inflicted. You know, I wouldn't necessarily trust it if my boss says to me,

01:08:14.700 my tolerance for pain is high because I'm going to think that's going to boomerang back on me

01:08:19.520 someday. Yeah. David Ellison's tolerance for pain is not going to be super, she's not going to last

01:08:24.500 more than a year in this job.

01:08:25.800 No.

01:08:26.040 She's not.

01:08:26.960 And I also, listening to you read that

01:08:29.220 and what Steve Croft had to say

01:08:30.760 about the hollowing out of 60 minutes now,

01:08:33.420 they'll never rebuild it.

01:08:35.420 I actually think that what's going on here

01:08:38.500 is that Barry doesn't know how to create.

01:08:41.440 She knows how to destroy.

01:08:43.000 She knows how to be in opposition to something.

01:08:45.000 She made her name with that open letter

01:08:46.600 to the New York Times saying

01:08:48.220 the editorial page has gone too woke, too left.

01:08:51.500 She wasn't wrong, but that's how she made her bones.

01:08:54.500 and how she got her venture capital to found the free press,

01:08:58.080 which was exciting for a minute, and then it flopped, right?

01:09:02.480 And now we're over here at CBS, and we're not creating new things.

01:09:05.900 We're not creating excitement.

01:09:07.760 We're not bringing in people to make something bigger or better.

01:09:12.080 She's destroying it, because I don't think she knows what else to do.

01:09:14.980 Yeah, I know.

01:09:15.900 And honestly, you can't swoop into 60 Minutes,

01:09:19.980 fire all the top staff without any explanation,

01:09:23.380 and then expect the remaining ones

01:09:25.840 to do exactly what you want them to do.

01:09:27.800 It's not a prison camp, right?

01:09:29.860 This is not forced labor.

01:09:31.360 Right.

01:09:31.760 Like you are not the Gestapo.

01:09:33.280 Like just ease up a little.

01:09:34.640 These are human beings.

01:09:35.900 They've built their careers there.

01:09:37.760 They've put in a lot of blood and sweat and tears at CBS.

01:09:40.320 And listen, CBS is leftist, it's whatever.

01:09:43.020 But like these people have worked there for a long time

01:09:46.860 and they, not like us, but they respect Scott Pelley.

01:09:51.440 They love 60 Minutes.

01:09:53.340 they're not going to take well to this.

01:09:55.400 So I really, I said from the beginning,

01:09:57.760 you actually can fire everybody

01:09:59.400 and that's what you're going to need to do.

01:10:00.860 If you want this kind of change,

01:10:03.180 yeah, then you better fire them all

01:10:05.420 or you're going to have a very unhappy work staff

01:10:07.800 sitting there very resentful of you

01:10:10.040 and looking to undermine you at every turn

01:10:12.460 and they can.

01:10:13.660 They're like the CIA.

01:10:14.960 They will be leaking on Barry now to the end of time.

01:10:17.560 She already has taken a massive black eye

01:10:19.580 and it's only going to get worse.

01:10:22.060 She doesn't understand that she's going to conduct meetings like that and tell Scott Pelley basically fuck off.

01:10:28.140 And that entire full of investigative journalists isn't recording this.

01:10:32.580 Yes.

01:10:32.880 And going to leak it to everybody they know.

01:10:35.240 Is she that thick?

01:10:36.240 And wait for the next mistake you make and the next meeting and the one after that.

01:10:40.740 Because they're loyal to him, not to her.

01:10:44.740 That's the truth.

01:10:45.980 Okay.

01:10:46.120 I'm just giving the dynamics inside a newsroom.

01:10:48.720 I'm not defending Scott Pelley.

01:10:49.900 But these are the dynamics inside a newsroom, and they do need to be managed.

01:10:54.080 Like any corporation, you can't just go in there like, what's your tolerance for pain?

01:10:58.880 Hi, then let's start hurting people.

01:11:01.640 Oh, great.

01:11:02.260 What a wonderful place to work.

01:11:05.360 Here, by the way, is Topra.

01:11:09.580 That's Tony Doka pool.

01:11:11.220 Oh, right.

01:11:11.840 Yeah.

01:11:12.180 The one who's always crying.

01:11:13.480 He should be crying because his show has never seen worse ratings.

01:11:15.880 lionizing scott pelly on the way out the one they just fired here's what he said sat six

01:11:23.240 he was in some ways a man from another era and that's not a knock he didn't watch the competition

01:11:29.200 he said because he knew who he was a journalist who valued truth at all costs and always kept

01:11:36.400 alive the memory of colleagues killed in the field a reminder that his chosen line of work

01:11:42.060 could be a dangerous one but pelly also made one major break from the past he changed the signs

01:11:50.180 around here under the cbs evening news logo where scott pelly's own name would have been

01:11:54.860 he instead wrote the cbs evening news with all of us well scott from all of us thank you

01:12:02.560 that red sounded watched like an obit like he's dead he's dead he may as well be dead because

01:12:12.480 he's not 60 anymore so he's dead we can bury him so there was just on the break i was looking at

01:12:17.180 the daily mail and they have this amazing piece about scott pelly uh this this woman who interned

01:12:22.720 for him years ago you know my my whole thing with scott pelly is i cannot stand the taking of the

01:12:27.720 readers on and off and putting the arm of the readers into our mouth and we're just we're so

01:12:33.940 we're such an intellectual and i gotta put him back on and they care about the news maureen

01:12:38.840 megan this former intern who now works in the media says she was in the control room working

01:12:45.640 for him and she saw him instruct the cameraman slowly zoom in on me as i remove my eye and it's

01:12:54.160 like William Hurt in broadcast news. She said from that moment on, I was like, you can't take

01:12:58.000 this guy seriously. That is so like with all of us. So that's perfect because it's the same way

01:13:06.920 that somebody's like, I don't like to talk about myself. I never talk about myself. I only know

01:13:11.960 my friends are really interested in talking about me for some reason. So I'll talk to myself about

01:13:15.340 them because they ask, but like, I hate to talk about myself. I would never, it's narcissistic

01:13:19.060 and it's self-centered, but you know, a lot of people do have questions about me. So what would

01:13:22.500 you like to know about me right like that that taking putting all of us instead of like with

01:13:27.620 scott pelly while night after night he's insisting he's the ultimate authority on every story he he

01:13:35.200 is the ultimate know-it-all he's in not in the business of learning anything he proved that time

01:13:41.760 and time again is just perfect that is chess kiss on brand for him we played the moms for liberty

01:13:48.140 site yesterday. He's such an arrogant jerk trying to tell these moms for liberty who are on there

01:13:54.100 lamenting porn, basically, in our school libraries, that it was a figment of their imagination and

01:14:01.640 that they make things up and then they don't back them up. It's like this is not a question of

01:14:06.360 opinion. It's a matter of fact. It's been proven over and over. A Supreme Court case acknowledged

01:14:10.040 it, but he never corrected the record. That's just one example. Here, interestingly, well,

01:14:15.840 here's more first before we move on to that jimmy kimmel uh had some thoughts on scott pelly last

01:14:21.080 night saw five last night the trump suck-ups at cbs fired a uh great and deeply respected

01:14:28.540 journalist scott pelly from his job at 60 minutes because he stood up for truth and integrity at a

01:14:34.480 show that's been the gold standard for broadcast journalism for 57 years he said the collapse of

01:14:40.320 values at the top has become untenable and he let him have it in a staff meeting right to the new

01:14:45.240 guys face okay uh 57 years i i would guess it's more like 42 60 has not been respected for the

01:14:55.380 past 15 years no like they they did go hard left we could see it the leslie stall the laptop can't

01:15:02.320 be verified right right which we only knew about because trump tape recorded it himself you know

01:15:08.580 that's right she didn't air that right that the ridiculous fluffing of kamala harris that was

01:15:14.120 insane during the campaign trying to make her sound better than she was all that you know we

01:15:18.540 the audience knows that the it was terminal that Sharon Alfonsi who got fired again I'm not

01:15:23.980 defending her journalism just saying that the handling of it has been very poor but she was

01:15:27.680 the one who was giggling about the crackdown on free speech in Germany like the arrest of people

01:15:32.340 for their opinions that's right she thought it was hilarious that's right like you clearly saw

01:15:36.640 a woman who wanted to bring that over here to the United States so it has not been the gold standard

01:15:41.940 for that long. And it actually is interesting because Steve Croft, in addition now here

01:15:46.460 speaking out to New York Magazine, he went out with Bill O'Reilly recently.

01:15:50.760 Really?

01:15:51.300 Yes, which I thought was very interesting because clearly they have different political

01:15:54.700 sensibilities, but they're both kind of older, grizzled news guys, you know? So there seemed

01:16:00.400 to be a mutual respect there. And he did lift the dress up a little on what it was like

01:16:06.100 to be on 60 Minutes during the heyday? You know, the 60 Minutes. And the answer is not great.

01:16:13.240 Listen here, Asat, 6B. I can remember when I was tapped to go to 60 Minutes, I thought this was

01:16:18.720 fantastic. And I expected to a lot of people would just come up and say, that's really great. I'm

01:16:23.580 really happy for you, whatever the thing. And then you realize after a while that not everybody was

01:16:28.700 happy that I got this job. There were other people that wanted it. And so,

01:16:36.100 Then you've all of a sudden made a bunch of enemies.

01:16:39.920 And that's, it's just, you know, it's a snake pit.

01:16:46.560 Okay.

01:16:47.440 It's fascinating that he used that word.

01:16:50.300 I actually put this in my book.

01:16:52.580 When I got offered the primetime spot at Fox, O'Reilly was my mentor.

01:16:58.640 But the name of my show came from a segment I had done on O'Reilly for years called The Kelly File.

01:17:03.840 And I talked to him about it.

01:17:06.380 He was one of the first people I talked to about it.

01:17:07.920 Like, what should I do?

01:17:09.400 Should I take it?

01:17:11.000 How should I think about this?

01:17:13.220 And he encouraged me, but he warned me.

01:17:17.180 And he said, cable news primetime is a snake pit.

01:17:22.180 And was really kind of warning me to watch my back.

01:17:27.480 It's interesting to hear somebody like Steve Croft,

01:17:30.120 who I always looked at as like,

01:17:31.840 just a tough shoe leather reporter.

01:17:34.220 You know, he's definitely a lefty.

01:17:35.620 His interviews of Obama were just downright shameful.

01:17:38.060 He was in love with Obama.

01:17:39.260 Shameful.

01:17:40.180 But, you know, I begrudgingly accept

01:17:43.860 that when not doing a political story, right,

01:17:46.760 like where his politics made their way into it,

01:17:48.860 he would do a good job.

01:17:51.840 That even at 60, there was that, like that jealousy

01:17:54.460 that makes ascension to a top spot,

01:17:56.580 a real, you know, double-edged sword. There can be serious positives, you know, in many ways

01:18:03.340 you succeed on paper, but like the downside to success is, it's enormous. You know, all of your

01:18:10.380 colleagues in his case turn against you. Some of mine did at Fox too, out of jealousy or competitive

01:18:18.400 feelings. And then the outside world starts paying a lot more attention to you. I would say not so

01:18:24.040 much in Steve Croft's case. But certainly at Fox, and even in this role, the more success you have,

01:18:30.760 the bigger target you are, the more people misrepresent you and just hate you for kind of

01:18:35.100 no reason other than you make them feel bad about themselves in some way. But it was interesting to

01:18:41.460 hear somebody like a man, like Steve Croft, talk about that dynamic. And I'm sure it's probably

01:18:46.440 true for all of them. It is probably true for all of them. You know, it's interesting because

01:18:50.220 at 60 Minutes, and I don't know if it will be the case going forward, but they would typically assign

01:18:55.460 one correspondent to presidential contenders. And then as the field winnowed, Croft was assigned

01:19:05.400 Obama, and he was lucky in that Obama got elected. And so Steve was Obama's guy. Every time Obama did

01:19:11.640 a 60 Minutes interview, he sat with Steve Croft. He owned that, right? So that's a great thing to

01:19:18.080 have but i think it's interesting to you're right to hear a man talk about like what we typically

01:19:23.580 consider like sort of more the province of mean girl stuff yeah you know competition jealousy

01:19:30.200 um sort of like an aggressiveness that can feel subterranean do you think it's every industry

01:19:37.580 like at that level i was gonna ask you that i i don't media is bad it's very bad in terms of

01:19:44.040 It's toxicity for sure.

01:19:46.740 You know, I was with Sean Ryan last week

01:19:48.240 and you can't go online right now

01:19:50.920 without seeing multiple attacks on me

01:19:52.380 by these bots that are clearly paid for

01:19:54.800 by AI firms that are very, very pro-Israel

01:19:57.760 who have decided I need to be destroyed

01:19:59.160 because I'm not in favor of this war.

01:20:01.760 And it's like swimming in a stew of toxicity.

01:20:04.540 And at this point in my career,

01:20:05.620 I've gotten used to dealing with that.

01:20:07.780 It doesn't make it any more pleasant.

01:20:09.380 But I was wondering, like,

01:20:10.460 do you think it's every industry?

01:20:11.600 And I think the answer is it's a lot of them.

01:20:14.040 I think a lot of the people listening to this right now have some measure of this in their day jobs.

01:20:18.360 Oh, sure.

01:20:19.040 Where like if they've ascended, they're a target.

01:20:21.380 Or even if they're whatever position they're in, there's somebody who begrudges them the job, the success, the benefits, the respect of the boss in the company.

01:20:30.960 You know, there's always something.

01:20:33.020 And people, as my therapist always says, people are complicated.

01:20:37.460 You know, they need to work out their issues on you sometimes.

01:20:41.500 You know, I think it happens at every point of your career. And I was thinking when I was first starting out and like, you know, I was ambitious and I was competitive and I wanted to do the best job. I wanted to be better than the person next to me and I wanted to get the promotion.

01:20:58.840 And that's – you're kind of, at least I was, under the impression that as you rise, if you're lucky enough to, because I think luck is a huge factor no matter how hard you work, that it somehow would lessen, right?

01:21:15.160 That as you get –

01:21:16.380 Your life is going to get better.

01:21:17.520 You're going to make a little more money.

01:21:18.920 You're going to have a little more institutional respect.

01:21:21.480 More people in your field will know who you are.

01:21:24.040 It'll get easier.

01:21:24.980 And in fact, sometimes I think it can get more intense, you know, because now you're fighting for fewer positions in rarefied air.

01:21:33.500 I'm sure it happens like at like at like the world's best medical facilities.

01:21:38.060 I'm sure it is a snake pit.

01:21:40.320 You know, colleges, neurologist.

01:21:42.380 Right.

01:21:42.840 Or if you're a Tesla or if you're in tech or like I think it's everywhere.

01:21:47.580 I think it's I'm sure it's like even like who got to go on that on that most recent moon voyage.

01:21:52.140 Who got to go?

01:21:53.080 you could hear little rumblings like, why is the head astronaut, is it DEI? I don't think it was.

01:22:00.580 I think it was the most qualified guy who was also mediogenic, right? Because you have to now

01:22:05.580 be mediogenic up in outer space. You got to project some confidence. You know what I mean?

01:22:10.320 It's true. Yeah. I don't know. Well, I feel like most people go through this and they go through

01:22:15.340 some sort of toxicity in their job that makes them question like, how great is this? Do I want

01:22:20.400 to keep doing this. For me, I've always been lucky in that I love the news. I love talking

01:22:26.460 about the news. I love reading the news and I love delivering the news. I think like we do it

01:22:31.380 in a very compelling, I think entertaining way, which is what our brand has been. That's why people

01:22:37.460 come to us. They trust us and they know that they're going to get the news in a way that's

01:22:41.480 interesting. It's not going to be like some bore fest like you can get from Scott Pelley, where

01:22:46.020 it's not only boring but it's wrong it's like biased and he'll never correct it um in any event

01:22:52.400 uh i don't think scott pelly's gonna wind up on a podcast anytime soon i think he's he's probably

01:22:57.900 thinking that's beneath him and he's too like important for that my prediction would be next

01:23:03.660 move will be like pbs you know like a frontline type program that'll be his ride off into the

01:23:11.120 sunset it won't be independent media i guarantee you he thinks that's been

01:23:15.280 beneath him it really it really it really only works if the arm goes into your mouth and it's

01:23:24.380 unhygienic and some poor minion of yours has to pick up your eyeglasses and clean them i would

01:23:29.040 i would put his future with a side of like teaching media studies at like columbia oh god or at the

01:23:34.600 kennedy school uh yeah yeah school of government sure the fake harvard uh okay maureen stays with

01:23:39.880 us. We've got a lot more to get to, including Dr. Jill Biden and the latest from Blake Lively.

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01:27:33.100 unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.

01:27:36.160 Along with the Megan Kelly Show,

01:27:37.320 you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin,

01:27:39.500 Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan,

01:27:41.400 Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly,

01:27:43.000 Real Clear Politics, and many more.

01:27:45.500 It's bold, no BS news.

01:27:47.620 Only on the Megan Kelly Channel,

01:27:49.460 SiriusXM 111, and on the SiriusXM app.

01:27:53.280 maureen callahan is back with me she is the host of the nerve which you should subscribe to

01:28:01.500 now on youtube and all podcast platforms i was saying the other day you weren't even here how

01:28:06.120 the nerve is perfect for the summer in particular you know and like it's the it's like the cocktail

01:28:11.240 you need when you go off to the beach you know like thank you that's exactly how i'd want to

01:28:15.940 spend my time on the beach just sitting in a chair under an umbrella listening to the nerve

01:28:20.540 it's shoot it into my veins.

01:28:22.380 Megan, thank you.

01:28:23.320 It's the truth.

01:28:23.900 You know I feel that way.

01:28:25.300 Okay, I don't exactly feel that way about Dr. Jill Biden,

01:28:28.100 but I do feel the need to get to an update on her

01:28:30.260 because she won't stop herself on this book tour.

01:28:33.440 She continues to go out and about.

01:28:35.780 And here is, okay, is it,

01:28:40.220 here's the slip she did on Morning Joe

01:28:44.940 when talking about the joint presidency she shared with Joe?

01:28:50.480 You tell me.

01:28:51.320 Listen to the pronouns in SOT 8B.

01:28:54.060 Me, Doug, I thought we were a great team.

01:28:57.000 We chose Kamala.

01:28:59.460 Joe chose Kamala to be VP.

01:29:01.540 And so we were supportive of her.

01:29:05.580 What?

01:29:07.220 We.

01:29:08.200 We chose Kamala.

01:29:10.480 Not he.

01:29:12.680 We.

01:29:13.640 Oh, I'm so happy to be talking to you about this

01:29:15.660 because I just want to get out of my system.

01:29:17.480 We're apolitical over at the nerve.

01:29:19.620 But this to me is just like,

01:29:21.240 this is just a malignant narcissist

01:29:23.420 who will not leave the stage

01:29:24.980 and is insistent upon bringing all of us

01:29:28.540 into her delusional reality

01:29:30.380 in which she had no idea

01:29:32.520 anything was wrong with her husband.

01:29:34.380 No idea.

01:29:35.780 And she says, we chose her, we chose her.

01:29:38.100 That isn't even factually correct

01:29:39.780 because if you remember the palace intrigue at the time,

01:29:42.460 they were forced into it the news dropped on a sunday normally it's a friday news dump so that

01:29:49.060 was how like perilous this whole thing was they really finally got him to sign the document like

01:29:55.460 i won't run and this is my announcement kamala immediately begins getting on the phone whipping

01:30:00.540 the votes whipping the votes whipping the calls getting in like that's how kamala got the nomination

01:30:05.320 it wasn't because the biden's hated her yeah they hated her guts and they were forced to take her

01:30:09.620 as his VP, too, even though she'd called him a racist on the open debate stage because she's a

01:30:13.900 black woman. That's why. And Jill apparently was the one who never forgave her for that.

01:30:18.640 Yeah. The debate. Yeah. Jill Biden can't stand Kamala Harris. It's mutual. So it's like, OK.

01:30:23.220 And she's she clearly seems kind of bitter at her and her complaints. There was this moment

01:30:28.520 at the 92nd Street Y in New York on Tuesday where she was doing her book event. And guess who made

01:30:34.520 a guest appearance awkward af as the kids say sought 8e oh joe has a question like you couldn't

01:30:44.060 ask it later who do you love most in the whole world whoopee

01:30:52.460 that pisses me off and the reason that pisses me off is that if they had their way he'd be

01:31:03.340 precedent right now? This pisses me off on a human level because I've got, I can speak as someone

01:31:11.300 who has a living parent with dementia and another parent who died of cancer. Now,

01:31:17.540 Jill's out here going, oh, you know, it's been very hard. Joe's got stage four cancer.

01:31:21.480 Very, very difficult diagnosis. Yeah, I know well. I would no sooner drag my father out

01:31:27.540 to a book event. Oh my God. You have to dress in a suit. Do you know how enervating that is

01:31:32.660 for someone who is that sick and then to have to sit there for two hours and be transported back

01:31:38.640 and forth and not for nothing. Traffic in New York right now, it took me two hours to get to

01:31:43.480 you today. It normally takes an hour. We've got the World Cup. We've got the Knicks. We've got

01:31:48.100 graduations happening. It is gridlock everywhere. That is not a kind act that you do for the man

01:31:54.340 you say you love more than anybody, which apparently she doesn't because now it's Whoopi

01:31:57.680 Goldberg. And like, he's infirm. Just take one look at him. Who do you love more than anyone else

01:32:05.420 in the world? And that was the most they could have him do. That was the most, the twisting of

01:32:10.280 the, you know, the turn behind the Barbie could deliver. And literally they wanted him to be the

01:32:17.380 leader of the free world right now, only because Trump stopped him. Did it not happen? I mean,

01:32:22.320 it's incredible to me to see him as he deteriorates even further, just the obviousness of their

01:32:29.080 lie. Of course, we all knew it. I'm just saying like, there it is the evidence, more evidence of

01:32:32.260 it. And it's so glaring and it's galling. Okay. So that's what's happening over in Jill Biden

01:32:37.040 world. Good luck with your book. That was the one thing Joe Biden gave us that I liked.

01:32:42.100 I liked his saying, good luck in your senior year. Wait, wait, what was that? He just randomly

01:32:47.520 says it and it works for me. I don't know. It's just like a good kiss off. Good luck in your

01:32:51.580 senior year. Um, okay. Uh, Blake Lively, something interesting happened on the show this week.

01:32:58.020 So there's a woman named Victoria Burke. Is that her last name? And she came on the program

01:33:04.960 because she is the one who came up with and drafted that 47.1 law that will allow a woman

01:33:16.360 who sues somebody for sexual harassment

01:33:18.520 and then gets slapped with a defamation lawsuit

01:33:22.340 as a counterclaim by the guy,

01:33:25.040 it'll allow her to recover her attorney's fees times three

01:33:28.780 if the defamation claim gets dismissed.

01:33:32.940 It was a way of evening the playing field.

01:33:36.160 It could be the man who's getting harassed.

01:33:37.920 I handled a case like that when I was a lawyer,

01:33:39.780 but usually it's the man harassing a woman, let's be honest,

01:33:42.860 because men are generally in the power position still.

01:33:45.660 And she was trying to help disempowered, unconnected, poor women who get harassed stop a really powerful, connected guy from making her life a living hell by giving him some skin in the game.

01:34:00.540 If you hit me with this defamation claim and I managed to make it go away, you're going to have to pay me my attorney's fees and whatever actual damages you caused me times three and punitives.

01:34:09.580 So it's a severe penalty.

01:34:11.260 blake lively tried to use it against justin baltoni right now after walking away from this

01:34:17.320 lawsuit which was bullshit from the start she's trying to make him pay this so she can declare

01:34:21.220 it a victory and victoria came on the program and made quite a bit of news about what's happened

01:34:27.860 here let listen listen here i received a communication from her attorney that blake

01:34:34.040 was intending to now move 47.1 nationwide, including to be moving it to New York. And I

01:34:41.380 responded, I'm already doing that. And can you please check with me before going forward? Because

01:34:48.540 my whole strategy was to fly this under the radar because we basically usually don't have much

01:34:54.140 opposition. And I said, there's oftentimes your client is compared to Amber Heard. And so I would

01:35:00.380 prefer you check with me and just stick with like mentioning the California part without mentioning

01:35:05.460 it's being moved nationwide. Cause I was worried that this is going to become just a PR campaign

01:35:12.400 for her. And it wasn't going to be about survivors anymore. It was going to be about like,

01:35:18.720 I didn't want her to turn my bill into the Met Gala.

01:35:21.060 amazing and that's what blake lively is doing so there this whole thing is about her trying to

01:35:30.560 emerge maureen as a champion of women trying to bring that 41 point 47.1 provision nationwide

01:35:38.060 she's the one who stole it from victoria burke and expanded it nationwide because she's blake

01:35:43.820 lively who was terribly sexually harassed by justin baldoni champion of the ladies meanwhile

01:35:49.940 the originator of the whole bill, who actually was the victim of a sexual assault, unlike Blake,

01:35:55.800 is saying, please don't do that. If anybody's going to bring it national, it's going to be me

01:36:01.780 who has learned how to get this thing passed in four states so far. And I neither need nor want

01:36:08.380 your help. And they're not listening to her. So Blake Lively is going to do even more damage to

01:36:14.940 women. It's not enough that she's damaged any other woman who's going to come forward and say,

01:36:20.360 that man sexually harassed me because now it's synonymous with this, right? Now she has to

01:36:27.220 further shit on not only the author, the hard one authorship of a bill and the author who says,

01:36:34.620 please don't do that. There is an entire strategy here that you don't understand.

01:36:38.680 You're a fucking actress. Get out of my lane. And I'm trying to help women of lower socioeconomic

01:36:44.920 class than the likes of you and Blake says no I'm gonna do what I want like it's so on brand

01:36:50.860 I just like just burn it to the ground I just want I just want her you know Ryan's out there

01:36:55.620 right now promoting his Wrexum series you know trying to just be Mr. Relatable got like Wrexum

01:37:02.100 these two yeah you know that welcome no but it sounds an awful lot like another word

01:37:06.180 you're so right nominative determinism Wreckum Wreckum who wants no Wreckum that's what oh oh

01:37:12.900 You're filthy.

01:37:14.440 I don't know.

01:37:15.060 It's what I heard.

01:37:18.020 Oh, my God.

01:37:19.060 So, yeah, no, but she's just burning it all to the ground, burning it all.

01:37:22.420 Not enough.

01:37:23.420 Not enough.

01:37:24.020 Like, if she really wanted that Taylor Swift invite to the wedding.

01:37:27.100 Yeah.

01:37:27.440 Now it's definitely not happening.

01:37:28.880 If she was on the bubble at all, Taylor is definitely crossing you off the invite list.

01:37:32.600 This is so humiliating.

01:37:33.680 I just feel like she truly is all about her.

01:37:37.820 Even in defeat, we knew that she was trying to make herself look like a victor by filing this thing

01:37:41.840 and pinching Justin for potential millions.

01:37:44.400 But I didn't realize this piece of it

01:37:46.040 until this woman came on our show and broke this news

01:37:48.060 that it's about much more than that.

01:37:49.980 It's about Blake trying to make herself look

01:37:52.480 like she's a champion for all women

01:37:54.740 and to bring this provision nationally,

01:37:57.000 even though the author of it, an actual victim,

01:38:00.320 does not want her interfering.

01:38:02.540 And basically it's stolen valor

01:38:04.220 because Blake's like, with all my money and resources,

01:38:07.200 I can do this faster and better than you can.

01:38:09.660 Meanwhile, she can't because she's a nitwit.

01:38:11.360 She doesn't understand the strategy. And this woman also was saying it was never intended for use by somebody like Blake Lively.

01:38:18.400 She said that also in our extended interview, saying like we talked about how she is the empowered one.

01:38:24.120 She's the one in the in the richer, more connected power position versus Justin Baldoni.

01:38:30.880 She doesn't need a defamation law tweak in order to protect herself from Justin.

01:38:37.220 You're right. It's like he's the one who, if anything, would need protection from her.

01:38:41.360 anyway, she's such a small person and that's been exposed to this whole lawsuit. So that's a

01:38:46.320 blessing. Um, Ted Danson. I know who saw this coming. I didn't either. It was just in my feed

01:38:53.900 yesterday. I'm like, well, this is interesting. Ted Danson is one of the people who has done

01:38:59.580 blackface in the most infamous way possible. He did minstrel show blackface. I think there's a

01:39:05.960 difference. There is a difference between, you know, blackface and that somebody wants to look

01:39:10.500 like Diana Ross and they tint their skin with like tanner. And this, we're showing the picture

01:39:16.240 of him in like what they used to do like in the 1930s with the white makeup around the mouth and

01:39:23.640 the black like shoe polish on the face, which is, I mean, whatever. You're not allowed to say either

01:39:29.960 one is okay. Trust me, I learned that the hard way. But this is just obviously so degrading and

01:39:34.100 nobody ever had an idea in modern history that this would be okay, except for Ted Danson. So he

01:39:39.300 did that in 1992 at the Friars Club in a roast of Whoopi, who was his lover at the time. And she

01:39:46.380 helped him write it and was totally in on it. And so he went on this podcast with W. Kama Bell,

01:39:56.100 W. Kama Bell. And he was so self-flagellated. Let me just give you a feel for how Ted sounded,

01:40:04.960 sat 29 why i would like to address this is and apologize forever i am i know what was in my

01:40:14.540 heart yeah so i have no problem talking about this but i need to and want to apologize for

01:40:20.520 the rest of my life because somebody today can go on the internet you're right and go what the fuck

01:40:26.000 yeah wow i feel betrayed i feel angry and whatever and i did that okay so let me tell

01:40:34.240 something about this Kamala Bell. After the 2024 election, he, this is the headline from him,

01:40:41.200 voters ran toward racism, misogyny, and xenophobia. If Kamala was a rich white man,

01:40:48.360 the race probably wouldn't be as close. The country still has an uninvestigated race problem

01:40:53.400 that we are afraid to investigate. After I said my comments on NBC about how I didn't like,

01:41:04.240 When I was growing up, blackface wasn't like, you wouldn't get canceled for it, like in the 70s and the 80s.

01:41:09.960 He came for me.

01:41:11.480 He started ripping me and was unforgiving, unapologetic, whatever, unforgiving entirely of me.

01:41:17.760 Let's see how he handled Ted Danson, who not only talked about, I never wore blackface, just talked about it, but Ted wore it in Minstrel Show.

01:41:26.720 Let's hear what he said to Ted.

01:41:27.960 So I do want to give you some more flowers around the fact that you demonstrated to me how to apologize in public.

01:41:39.320 Thank you.

01:41:40.280 How to say, oops, and around an issue.

01:41:46.020 And I'm sure you know what I'm referring to.

01:41:47.680 I do.

01:41:48.400 So we can go anywhere you want, but only because it's you.

01:41:52.800 Yeah.

01:41:53.260 Okay.

01:41:53.400 I mean, you would be the person I'd want to go talk to.

01:41:58.740 And when you did my podcast, I want to give you a little flower.

01:42:02.600 We nipped around.

01:42:03.860 We weren't nipping around it, but you said something, I said something,

01:42:08.840 and we both looked at each other going,

01:42:11.460 ah, I know what you're talking about.

01:42:13.280 And you said, yes, I do, and we'll move on.

01:42:17.320 Which was full of grace.

01:42:19.900 It went on like this for quite some time.

01:42:22.680 And Ted Danson talked about how he went to some race, like expert sat with her for an hour to, you know, expunge the sin from his head and heart.

01:42:33.540 You know, he did the mandated therapy, basically, and to make him non-racist, I guess.

01:42:39.900 And he got flowers for that, too.

01:42:42.240 This was like a lick fest by this Kamau Bell, who is completely forgiving of Ted Danson because he was self-flagellating over it.

01:42:48.900 I don't remember Ted Danson ever coming out when I was twisting in the wind at NBC and saying,

01:42:54.260 no, she's not wrong. It wasn't just the 70s and the 80s where people would do this

01:42:58.680 and think it wasn't a problem. I did it at the Friars Club in 1992 in the worst way you could

01:43:04.620 possibly do it. And I didn't realize when I did that, that it was incredibly like all these,

01:43:09.280 I love calling attention to this because all these people let me twist in the wind.

01:43:12.660 I know Jimmy, Jimmy Kimmel's done it too. I mean, I don't know that it's ever really been okay,

01:43:16.520 to don it. But what Ted had going for him in that moment is he was with Whoopi Goldberg. They were

01:43:23.700 having this hot affair and everybody was really, really like attract, like you couldn't look away

01:43:28.680 because it was like, you know, Ted Danson, he's such a good looking guy even now. And Whoopi

01:43:34.800 Goldberg? Like, I think he left his wife for Whoopi. His wife of many years. He suggested

01:43:40.000 this was racist too. The fascinating, the fascination. No, that was not it. That trust

01:43:44.640 me, it was not it. It was like this very handsome, talented, masculine guy with like Whoopi Goldberg

01:43:52.080 who doesn't look like she bathes very often. That's it. She's not as attractive. And, you know,

01:43:58.160 Whoopi took like half of that heat and she was like, if it's okay with me, it's okay. So you

01:44:03.900 can't assail him and everybody loved him, right? What was the other thing I was going to say about

01:44:08.100 this with the, oh, what that host said about, you know, America's still got a very big race problem.

01:44:15.140 Uninvestigated.

01:44:15.800 Uninvestigated.

01:44:16.300 Really?

01:44:17.200 Bullshit.

01:44:17.780 And I was thinking about this last night because I was watching the Knicks game, which was electrifying.

01:44:22.400 Yeah, go Knicks.

01:44:23.320 And you watch these guys on the court, you know, and a mixed race crowd and everybody's behind their team.

01:44:32.260 That's it.

01:44:33.220 And New York, one of the most polyglot cities in the world.

01:44:37.140 Nobody gives a shit what color your skin is.

01:44:39.280 They're just in it for the Knicks.

01:44:41.160 That's it.

01:44:41.980 And we are the melting pot and we love it.

01:44:43.940 So, you know, fuck off with this uninvestigated racism.

01:44:46.880 Oh, my God.

01:44:47.180 Like, uninvestigated?

01:44:48.680 Are you kidding me?

01:44:49.560 Like, do you watch MSNBC?

01:44:51.500 Have you seen them over the past six years?

01:44:53.300 Because it's been investigated.

01:44:54.840 CNN, too.

01:44:55.560 They've been investigating it.

01:44:57.100 Trust me.

01:44:58.040 But I just love how all these people were like, let her twist.

01:45:01.040 Because she said, you know, people used to do this in the 70s and the 80s, and they didn't get canceled.

01:45:04.500 Like, this was something you would see.

01:45:06.100 Turns out, NBC, I said that on NBC, and my show was canceled.

01:45:09.640 NBC's biggest star did it.

01:45:11.260 Ted Danson, not to mention Zach Graff, the one on Scrubs.

01:45:16.760 Oh, he did?

01:45:17.200 They'd been airing that on Scrubs two years prior to my comments on NBC.

01:45:22.000 Luanne de la Sepz from The Real Housewives.

01:45:24.420 That was a flashpoint moment.

01:45:25.180 She did it on Broadway, on Bravo.

01:45:26.920 It was a flashpoint.

01:45:27.960 That's the segment we were discussing.

01:45:29.780 Oh, really?

01:45:30.560 That was the segment we were discussing.

01:45:31.640 But my point was simply like, it was everywhere and you didn't always get canceled over it.

01:45:35.240 That's what I said.

01:45:35.860 Luanne survived.

01:45:36.980 Yeah, no, it was just ridiculous.

01:45:37.900 But Ted Danson let me twist in the wind.

01:45:40.820 Twisted.

01:45:41.760 So you twist too, sir, although not on Kamau Bell's show.

01:45:45.300 He's going to give you lots of flowers because you're a self-flagellating leftist.

01:45:49.880 Maureen, a pleasure, my friend.

01:45:51.800 Always lovely to see you.

01:45:53.020 Love you, Megan.

01:45:53.860 Can't wait to tune in to The Nerve.

01:45:55.060 Recommend you all do it as well.

01:45:56.340 I'll be listening right alongside you.

01:45:58.400 We're back tomorrow with somebody I've never interviewed, best-selling author James Patterson.

01:46:03.840 Now, we'll see if he has gotten a review like the ones Doug is getting.

01:46:09.680 Something tells me he has.

01:46:11.260 but I'm looking forward to meeting him

01:46:12.480 and it's going to be fun.

01:46:13.860 So we'll see you then.

01:46:14.500 Thanks for listening.

01:46:15.480 Until tomorrow.

01:46:17.840 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 04, 2026

The TRUTH About Jill's Treatment of Joe Biden, Bari Weiss' Leadership, and ＂Strangers＂ Accuracy, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1332

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