The Megyn Kelly Show - ＂The View＂ Exposed, Biden's Glitzy Fundraiser, and MSNBC's Tantrums, with The Fifth Column Hosts

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.700 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, coming to you live from Sirius XM headquarters in New York City with my pals from the fifth column.

00:00:20.960 We're making this like an, not an annual, a monthly, a monthly, live in person. And I'll introduce them properly in one second.

00:00:26.900 A short time from now, President Biden is due to land in the Big Apple for a star-studded campaign fundraiser tonight with former Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton.

00:00:38.980 All right, so you've got three former Presidents joining in New York City today to raise money for Joe Biden and a fourth former U.S. President showing up for a very different reason.

00:00:49.320 Tonight's event is expected to bring in a whopping $25 million for Joe Biden with Stephen Colbert, quote, moderating, Mindy Kaling, hosting appearances from Lizzo, and more.

00:01:05.740 Guests who pay enough can have their portrait taken with the three Presidents for the low, low price of $100,000.

00:01:11.640 Sure. Okay, that's worth it. We've got world-renowned photographer Annie Leibovitz taking those pictures, by the way, of course, because why not?

00:01:20.920 And you can contrast that with what is happening over on the Republican side, where former President Donald Trump has also planned a trip to New York today.

00:01:29.800 And his trip is for a very good reason. The current president will hobnob with the elites, while the former president, Donald Trump, will be in Long Island to attend the wake of the first NYPD cop killed in the line of duty since 2022.

00:01:47.880 We're going to get to all of this. What a juxtaposition, just in your mind, and I'm sure by the end of the day on screen.

00:01:53.200 So much more to talk about, including the amazing Coleman Hughes' appearance on The View. If you haven't seen it, it's well worth watching the whole thing.

00:01:59.500 I posted it on X in full, so you can just watch it there or wherever you want.

00:02:04.020 Our pals join us from the fifth column today. Michael Moynihan, Camille Foster, and Matt Welsh back with us in studio here at SiriusXM.

00:02:12.860 Find all of their work at wethefifth.substack.com.

00:02:19.180 Hi, guys. Hi. Hello, Megan. Great to have you.

00:02:21.540 You know what happened is I asked them to make the prompter smaller, like the type, and I'm actually having difficulty reading it, so I just kept stumbling.

00:02:29.060 I thought you were just making all that up. I couldn't see anything there. That is tiny.

00:02:32.800 Kelly McGuire, my crack producer, wrote that, and I took a look at it before the show, but it's tiny. It was tiny.

00:02:38.640 Okay. I do think it's a remarkable split screen to have three former Democratic presidents over there raising $25 million for Joe Biden while one former Republican president is there at the wake of this murdered cop.

00:02:51.740 It's a terrible look for Joe Biden. Corrine Jean-Pierre was asked, is Joe Biden, you know, would he like to say something?

00:02:58.840 Is he going to do something in response to this officer being shot down just as he tried to check a car that was sitting in a bus lane and got shot?

00:03:08.140 He's a 31-year-old guy, has a one-year-old son, married.

00:03:11.620 No. You know, so sorry about the loss of life. In fact, we have that. We can kick it off with Corrine Jean-Pierre remarking on it. Here we go.

00:03:16.960 Our hearts go out to this officer who tragically lost his life in the line of duty. We're also praying for his family.

00:03:24.500 President Biden is deeply grateful for the sacrifices police officers make to keep our community safe.

00:03:30.440 This shooting is yet another painful reminder of the toll of gun violence, what it's doing to inflict on families and our communities and our nation.

00:03:40.180 And that's why the president signed more than two dozen executive actions.

00:03:43.980 That's why we're able to pass a bipartisan agreement to deal with the gun violence that we're seeing in this country.

00:03:49.840 Obviously, more work needs to be done.

00:03:52.360 It's about gun violence. Officer Jonathan Diller, his wake will happen today on Long Island.

00:03:59.460 His funeral is set for Saturday. The suspect, Guy Rivera.

00:04:04.040 Here he is. Poor guy. God rest him.

00:04:07.540 The suspect, Guy Rivera, was found to have a shiv stored in his rectum during the shooting in an apparent anticipation of being sent to jail again.

00:04:17.400 One can only hope it gets used against him soon.

00:04:20.900 And he's arrested and responsible, according to the cops, for the murder of this young cop.

00:04:27.800 What do you guys make of it?

00:04:29.280 It's just monstrous. It is unfortunate that there is a political dimension to acts of violence like this.

00:04:35.480 But there is certainly with respect to New York and local politics and how the city has just been in this very weird place.

00:04:41.620 I'd say we saw a monstrous climb in violence in the city.

00:04:45.620 It's gone down in a pretty dramatic way as well, but only because it went up so big.

00:04:49.540 But with respect to presidential politics, the national politics, I mean, I feel a little bad for Corinne Jean-Pierre there.

00:04:56.620 She has a president who probably doesn't have the stamina to make it to awake early in the day and then go to a big event like this later on tonight.

00:05:02.480 And by the way, Camille, on that point, he's got several hours of free time between the time he arrives momentarily and this evening's event.

00:05:08.680 He could go.

00:05:09.200 One could imagine what he might look like later in the evening, though.

00:05:12.020 I mean, the guy just does not have the stamina to do it.

00:05:14.100 When he's doing the State of the Union in the evening, he's resting up all day to go to that event.

00:05:17.980 So their hands are perhaps somewhat tied.

00:05:21.440 That said, it is a really, really bad look from a political standpoint.

00:05:25.980 Yeah, I mean, regardless if you think this is smart to politicize certain things like that, it's irrelevant in a way.

00:05:33.000 It is political, yeah.

00:05:33.660 But it is political.

00:05:34.740 It reminded me of 2006, sorry, 2020 when I was in Wisconsin.

00:05:41.340 And after the Jacob Blake shooting, which left him paralyzed, and of course the original narrative of that was that he was just going to break up a fight.

00:05:51.800 It turned out he was like, you know, had a restraining order and he had a knife on him and pulled the knife.

00:05:57.060 I was there and I said, oh, God, this everything just shut down while President Trump came to town and he was surveying the damage, all the stuff that was burned down.

00:06:05.480 But I think it was the same day or maybe the morning after, Joe Biden met with Jacob Blake and his family.

00:06:12.300 And Jacob Blake is not a good guy.

00:06:14.160 And what happened to him was his own damn fault, I'm sorry to say.

00:06:18.500 But, you know, I mean, it's like even when Crane Jean-Pierre says, and I hate to nitpick like this, he lost his life in the line of duty.

00:06:25.080 He was murdered.

00:06:26.180 And I watched the video, which I do not recommend anyone watches.

00:06:30.100 There's another video that was released today, which you can just hear him screaming and writhing in pain after he's been shot.

00:06:35.520 But it's important to see those things because those bring home just the hideousness of this violence and the effect it has on, obviously, this guy is a very young child and a wife.

00:06:44.540 And it's absolutely awful.

00:06:45.780 You would imagine that in a presidential race, which is all about gesture politics, it's the only thing it is.

00:06:51.480 I mean, you would make that gesture and go do it.

00:06:53.860 And Donald Trump's going to step into that, you know, breach there and do it.

00:06:57.940 It's the right decision, I would say.

00:06:59.740 It's no, it's no, why wouldn't Joe Biden go to this?

00:07:01.940 I'm sorry, but like this cop is going to be, his picture is going to be used in this campaign for the next seven months if he completely blows this off.

00:07:09.580 Because the Democrats have been criticized, been criticized for being too soft on crime.

00:07:14.080 This guy was a career criminal who shot this cop, had been arrested 21 times.

00:07:18.380 He was out on parole.

00:07:19.660 I mean, anybody who's got the shiv up the anus in anticipation of the cops pulling them over is a career criminal with whom society should be done.

00:07:27.740 We should be done with him.

00:07:29.180 But, you know, New York City went cash bail.

00:07:32.360 We've had soft on crime prosecutors.

00:07:34.380 A lot of people believe that's why we've had the decrease in crime.

00:07:37.720 Rafael Mangal has been saying that, that don't believe these soft, these lower crime numbers because the cops aren't making the arrest now.

00:07:44.400 They know that the people just get turned right back out on the street.

00:07:47.120 In any event, people are angry about the crime situation, even though it's kind of like the economy where we're being told, oh, it's better, it's better, it's better.

00:07:54.140 Well, tell it to the family of this officer.

00:07:58.000 Eric Adams had a press conference and he's like literally schizophrenic, at least on a policy level, because on one hand, he'll portray the city as a hellhole.

00:08:08.700 And the next day, it's like, I can't believe everyone's calling this place a hellhole.

00:08:11.980 Our trains are safe.

00:08:14.300 You can pay no attention to the National Guard.

00:08:16.160 And by the way, you can come here and someday you get a 9-11.

00:08:18.820 If anyone doesn't remember that, what is great about New York?

00:08:22.020 Someday you get a 9-11.

00:08:22.860 I was like, this man is deranged.

00:08:25.040 He had.

00:08:25.500 I'm sorry.

00:08:26.020 He listed it as one of the great things about New York.

00:08:28.480 If you don't believe me, go look this up.

00:08:30.160 He had at his press conference this week, a big like prop arrow pointing down, an orange arrow pointing down.

00:08:37.020 And it had 5.6 percent saying, since I've been mayor, crime on the subway has gone down 5.6 percent.

00:08:44.020 No, it hasn't.

00:08:45.640 It hasn't.

00:08:46.380 Like reported crime.

00:08:48.020 Sure.

00:08:48.440 Right.

00:08:48.640 I was just today taking the subway here, and on the 8th or so stop, I was remarking to myself in my interior monologue, jabbering like a crazy person.

00:08:59.120 Like everyone else in the train.

00:09:00.520 This is remarking to myself.

00:09:03.140 This is the first time that I've taken a train ride in weeks where I haven't seen some kind of jabbering lunatic or someone who's asleep in their own feces or something.

00:09:15.320 And just when that happened, the jabbering lunatic came staggering down the aisle and not menacing people but just like freaking people out.

00:09:22.740 I mean that is the observed reality.

00:09:25.120 This week, four people have died so far, probably more, but since on Monday and Tuesday of this week, I think we're on Thursday now, four people died.

00:09:33.920 Some were killed.

00:09:34.580 One was a teenager one stop away from my house who's one year older than my daughter, was walking on a catwalk, got hit by a subway car.

00:09:40.660 There's just no way in which you don't feel like the city is less safe than it was five years ago and the subways in particular.

00:09:48.420 And the juxtaposition is astonishing.

00:09:50.640 You have Stephen Colbert, who was funny 15 years ago but has become part of this kind of claptor democratic chorus comedy in air quotes, is giving a Radio City Music Hall $25 million fundraiser in a city that has a lot of rich people.

00:10:09.860 It's great to be rich.

00:10:10.800 It's awesome.

00:10:11.940 And if you're super rich, it's great to live in Manhattan and it's great to live in Hollywood and other places like that.

00:10:16.660 But all you have to do is look around you, and the same is true in Chicago where the Democrats are really wisely having their Democratic National Convention this year.

00:10:23.780 There are dysfunctions happening in major cities that are obvious to the people who live there that aren't rich.

00:10:29.760 And to allow that and even showcase that disparity is amazing.

00:10:35.240 And also it must be said that Biden is going to have a huge fundraising advantage all throughout this presidential campaign because Donald Trump is raising every single dollar to pay for his own legal technique.

00:10:44.660 Donald Trump would have a full fee.

00:10:45.880 He would have a field tax.

00:10:47.700 Bonfires of vanities.

00:10:49.020 It's like I have to point this out all the time, and it's frustrating to do so.

00:10:53.460 But when people talk about the numbers in New York, and the numbers have gone up, particularly in the subway crime, but I always hear these pompous assholes that are just on, you know, what's happening.

00:11:04.540 If you look at the numbers, I was like, dude, I ride the subway every day.

00:11:07.420 I texted these guys last night.

00:11:08.680 We recorded last night.

00:11:09.560 The episode will be up later.

00:11:10.460 It's an outrageous one.

00:11:11.760 You'll enjoy it.

00:11:12.280 I left, and I got on the subway at Spring Street, and it was the fucking Michael Jackson thriller video.

00:11:18.480 They're just zombies.

00:11:20.020 And I was like, and I said, this is how crazy it is.

00:11:22.180 As I said to Camille, this guy came up to me, and he was like, you look like Robin Williams.

00:11:26.800 And I was like, no, I don't.

00:11:27.760 I don't look like Robin Williams.

00:11:29.420 Like a hairy, what are you talking about?

00:11:31.880 What did you actually say?

00:11:32.700 Yeah, I said, please leave me alone.

00:11:34.740 Here's a dollar.

00:11:35.620 Go away.

00:11:36.100 But that is the thing.

00:11:37.720 And they say, well, subway crime.

00:11:39.640 Matt is right.

00:11:40.540 Every time you're on the subway, there's something.

00:11:42.540 Every time.

00:11:43.560 None of this is reported.

00:11:44.860 What do you do?

00:11:45.380 Call 911 and say it's full of crazy people that are menacing?

00:11:48.360 I sent you guys a video this morning that was taken on the subway last night of a guy going around and fakely punching.

00:11:53.700 I saw him.

00:11:54.180 This is, you can't call the police.

00:11:56.400 Nobody calls the police.

00:11:57.420 What are you going to say?

00:11:58.400 There's a crazy person on the subway who didn't hurt anyone, but was menacing people.

00:12:02.320 Okay.

00:12:03.120 That's not recorded.

00:12:04.340 And if you ride the subway as much as I do, and I do, this is a class issue.

00:12:08.580 Because Matt is right to point that out.

00:12:10.240 When you have these pompous people right over here at, you know, literally a block away, you know, $25 million, you know, $100,000, take a picture with these desiccated old presidents.

00:12:19.740 Well, the normal people living in this city are riding the subway and seeing something that these people will never see in their lives.

00:12:26.820 Yeah.

00:12:27.060 Or never see it again, if they ever saw it in the past.

00:12:29.660 And to live in this world, and when people say, well, actually, here are the numbers.

00:12:34.440 And I'm like, I'm sorry.

00:12:35.300 At least it's not 1975.

00:12:36.800 Yeah, no, it's like you said, okay, so four people were murdered last week.

00:12:40.280 Down from five.

00:12:41.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:41.660 Oh, yeah.

00:12:42.400 It's a win.

00:12:43.000 It's not as bad as Baghdad in 2002, though.

00:12:46.740 What?

00:12:47.340 How is this one of these comparisons?

00:12:49.120 No, but I do think it's like, it's pretty devastating.

00:12:51.280 It's pretty dumb for the Biden campaign to have proceeded with this, understanding the optics of what's happening in the New York City area today.

00:12:57.980 This is going to be out on Long Island, Massapequa's on Long Island, where this officer is going to be waked and then the funeral this weekend.

00:13:04.000 But what a stupid thing to have your $25 million glitzy fundraiser with former presidents on the night of this man's death and the, you know, the honor that's going to be paid to him today of the wake.

00:13:16.640 And I think they're going to live to regret it because I think most Americans are going to have that cop's death on their mind as they go into this evening and see the glitzy coverage of Colbert and Lizzo and whoever else is going to be there with these three.

00:13:27.640 And then Trump's going to be all over the news as having been at the wake.

00:13:30.560 You know, I mean, it's a very, very different juxtaposition.

00:13:33.200 So that's CBS.

00:13:35.700 I mean, I remember the days when they wouldn't have let a late night host go and host something like this because Stephen Colbert is associated with CBS.

00:13:43.340 And they would have said, no, it doesn't look good for the network in an election year for you to be fundraising for the Democratic candidate.

00:13:49.620 Literally fundraising.

00:13:50.420 Literally fundraising.

00:13:51.000 Not like emceeing, but like add a fundraiser.

00:13:53.480 Add a fundraiser.

00:13:54.220 So that's CBS.

00:13:55.660 Used to be very storied and respected.

00:13:57.540 And that brings me to NBC, another big network.

00:13:59.880 You may be familiar.

00:14:00.740 They were in the news this week.

00:14:01.560 Have you, do you have any relationship with them?

00:14:03.740 Did you ever, have you watched it?

00:14:05.220 It's like, it's not very good.

00:14:06.140 Just so you know.

00:14:06.620 This whole area.

00:14:07.620 It's like, all my past ghosts are everywhere.

00:14:10.260 The ghosts of Megan's past.

00:14:12.240 I set the watch at Sirius in the lobby there.

00:14:14.920 Thank God I found my way to the right building ultimately.

00:14:18.820 So now there are reports that there are a possibility some executives might be, their next might be on the chopping block over at MSNBC or NBC.

00:14:30.340 As reports emerged that the head of MSNBC was actually in on the decision to hire Ronna McDaniel.

00:14:36.480 Rashida Jones.

00:14:37.260 Yeah.

00:14:37.560 Even though, like as soon as her people started freaking out on her, she's like, she will never be on MSNBC.

00:14:42.760 Never be on MSNBC.

00:14:44.060 Meanwhile, turns out she was behind the scenes approving the hire.

00:14:47.740 That had not been disclosed.

00:14:50.420 And now there are reports that multiple reporters inside of NBC are scared that their Republican sources are going to dry up and that they'll never get Republicans on either MS or regular NBC again.

00:15:05.080 Do they have Republicans on them?

00:15:06.280 I know.

00:15:06.720 I'm like, which Republicans are these?

00:15:08.780 Michael Steele.

00:15:09.500 Really right wing people like Michael Steele and Nicole Wallace, right?

00:15:12.400 Right.

00:15:13.040 But I will say, like, I'm not sure.

00:15:14.860 I actually think the last point is kind of interesting because do you think core MAGA is going to refuse to deal with the NBCs of the world, Meet the Press and so on, Lester Holt, as a result of this?

00:15:26.000 Because I don't think they care about Ronna McDaniel.

00:15:28.640 I think that's right.

00:15:29.400 And I also think they want media coverage.

00:15:31.800 So I think big NBC will not pay any penalty for this.

00:15:34.520 I mean, they'll pay a penalty internally, not from externally from MAGA.

00:15:40.000 I mean, the people on the outside watching this are mostly just rubbing their hands.

00:15:44.380 How can you have an actual internal leadership crisis based on the hiring and unhiring of another political hack to be a panelist?

00:15:55.160 That's crazy.

00:15:55.920 You are running your organization so badly when that happens.

00:15:59.100 And now we're getting leaks, right?

00:16:00.820 Showing Rashida Jones here.

00:16:02.540 That didn't come from her, I don't think.

00:16:04.020 The news that she had been part of that.

00:16:06.920 So, you know, if you're on the outside looking in, you're just like, oh, can I throw a little fuel in that fire?

00:16:11.180 That's fantastic.

00:16:12.120 I am fascinated by the self-conception of these places, right?

00:16:16.580 The common viewer, I believe, is smart enough to know that cable news for 30 years has always had the Republican strategist, the Democratic strategist.

00:16:25.640 Now, maybe there'd be the never-Trumper and the MAGA person, right?

00:16:28.460 But, like, they don't expect those people to be neutral truth seekers.

00:16:32.480 Right.

00:16:32.620 It's not hard.

00:16:34.000 You know what they're doing when they're up there.

00:16:35.840 What's happened over the last 10 years is that in all of cable news, but even more on CNN and MSNBC than had been previously, the space for the actual MAGA contingent of the Republican Party, which is the dominant contingent, has shrunk down even while the self-conception of the places is like, no, we're not doing partisan cope television.

00:16:57.800 No, that's not what we're doing.

00:16:59.180 What we're doing is neutral truth-seeking.

00:17:01.180 And whenever we see somebody out there, somebody named Donald Trump usually, who's saying things on camera live, the first thing that we're going to do when it comes back into the studio is tut-tut about all the false hits that we're just going to have to debunk right now in real time because the truth is what matters at this network.

00:17:18.420 Like, damn it, I think they have gotten high on their own supply.

00:17:22.600 They don't realize how the rest of the world understands them accurately, which is not even to say that, like, oh, they're bad because they're liberal.

00:17:29.420 It's like, no, you're just on—you're a partisan cope.

00:17:31.660 Fox is a partisan cope, too, in a different direction.

00:17:34.080 But we all know that.

00:17:35.300 Fox manages to have liberals and progressives on air.

00:17:38.580 They would have more of them on air if they would actually come over.

00:17:41.340 And that's the dimension of this particular controversy that I find so weird.

00:17:46.380 Miss Romney McDaniels, McDaniels Romney, depending on the day.

00:17:49.940 She's Romney's niece, and she had to give up Romney because Trump didn't like it.

00:17:54.360 She did that for him, and then she's pushed out by him.

00:17:57.680 And that is the person that MSNBC just hired.

00:18:00.620 You people ought to be able to run rings around her in a debate, bring her on once per day, dress her down for five minutes of shame.

00:18:08.860 You're terrified of the prospect of having her on air.

00:18:11.980 What do you think about your viewers?

00:18:13.780 What do you think about yourselves?

00:18:14.860 You imagine that your arguments are so facile that they can't stand up to her being in the room interrogating them?

00:18:21.820 It is obscene.

00:18:22.520 It's a good point.

00:18:23.180 Did you ever, Megan, when you were working in television, get the impression that the people that were ruling over you, signing your paychecks, were complete morons?

00:18:33.140 There was a moment that I realized that they were all stupid.

00:18:36.600 Other than Roger.

00:18:37.980 Roger was not stupid.

00:18:38.780 Like, he is, I mean, if you look at him and the Nixon campaign, you're like, wow, this guy has a storied history, and you can love him or hate him, but he was a smart guy.

00:18:46.200 No, but over at NBC, it was the classic, like, Harvard-educated, have absolutely no feel for what actual people care about type of executives.

00:18:54.360 You hire, so, like, I always think back, when they were getting criticized, MSNBC, and they start becoming a very liberal network, and people say, this is who we are.

00:19:02.700 This is who we are, and we have no black executives.

00:19:05.540 So they start on this kind of, you know, Rashida Jones, the head of the network is black.

00:19:10.000 They said, we need somebody to host a show.

00:19:11.780 In the most kind of upper west side white person thing, they're like, I don't know, Al Sharpton, he's like a black guy.

00:19:17.560 And they gave him a show.

00:19:19.820 It's like, what is wrong with these people?

00:19:21.660 He's a black guy.

00:19:22.440 He can't even read the prompter.

00:19:24.320 Which gave us so many great compilations of his teleprompter.

00:19:27.440 So many great clips.

00:19:28.000 And on SNL, making fun of him for that.

00:19:30.080 That's the least of his problems.

00:19:31.340 That's the least of his problems.

00:19:32.340 I mean, actually, they have him on, and they say, oh, Rona McDaniel, she was horrible on January 6th.

00:19:38.000 It's like, do you want to go back into Al Sharpton's past?

00:19:40.100 Right.

00:19:40.720 And all the sort of problems that he tried to precipitate.

00:19:44.960 Raise your hand if you try to start a race war.

00:19:46.740 Raise your hand.

00:19:47.620 Anybody?

00:19:48.140 Multiple times.

00:19:49.280 Let's note that Megan's hand was up.

00:19:52.140 She went, I know, she told that before.

00:19:56.120 But this is because it's a bad hire.

00:19:58.700 Just from a television perspective, it's a bad hire.

00:20:01.400 Because if you've seen her on television, it's like, oh, God, this woman.

00:20:04.440 She's not good at it.

00:20:05.620 You get somebody who's good at it.

00:20:06.800 But also, it's good television to have people disagree once in a while.

00:20:10.740 In this kind of amen choir that you get, particularly when it's like election nights.

00:20:16.380 And the MSNBC table has like 70 people around it.

00:20:19.240 Like, mm-hmm.

00:20:20.020 Yes.

00:20:20.840 And Michael Steele comes in.

00:20:21.980 He's like, I was a Republican.

00:20:23.000 I was like, yes.

00:20:24.000 You're a good guy.

00:20:25.120 Like, this is bad TV.

00:20:26.700 And then you hire this dope.

00:20:28.060 And I'm sorry, she's dope.

00:20:29.400 But you keep saying this.

00:20:30.480 Like, well, she's lied about something.

00:20:33.140 Okay.

00:20:33.480 Let's go back from 2017 to 2021.

00:20:36.040 And let's just do an audit of Rachel Maddow's show.

00:20:39.140 Yeah.

00:20:40.200 Convincing Americans that we're being ruled by a puppet of the FSB and the Kremlin.

00:20:46.100 Maybe that has kind of malicious and bad side effects.

00:20:49.200 Well, I wish.

00:20:50.100 One of these days, I'm actually going to wear her little outfit.

00:20:51.920 Because there's only the one that she wears.

00:20:53.400 I'm going to take off all the makeup.

00:20:54.900 I'm going to pull my hair back even tighter than this.

00:20:57.200 And I'm going to do a real imitation of her.

00:20:58.720 Because I watched her for 27 minutes the other night for the first time.

00:21:01.540 I don't remember ever doing that before.

00:21:03.820 And it was the most, like, she was like.

00:21:06.920 Yeah.

00:21:08.900 Yeah, it's very performative.

00:21:10.260 Right?

00:21:10.540 It was so performative.

00:21:11.540 Like, really trying to get, like, you know, we're going to find out whether the Congress

00:21:15.360 will do its job or not.

00:21:18.580 Whether the Supreme Court will do its job or not.

00:21:23.160 And then the credits roll and she walks out into her helicopter and disappears.

00:21:27.500 She's a woman of the people, though.

00:21:28.720 She's a woman of the people.

00:21:30.360 You got $35, $30 million to do one show a week.

00:21:32.520 You have some work to do on the eyebrows, though.

00:21:33.540 Like, the eyebrow placement is really.

00:21:35.300 Well, that's thanks to my doctor.

00:21:36.720 There's nothing that can be done about that for another three or four months.

00:21:39.080 You haven't felt those since the toilet center.

00:21:41.500 So, all right.

00:21:42.360 Predictions.

00:21:42.960 Do you believe that an executive at MSNBC or NBC will be fired?

00:21:49.880 I would predict yes.

00:21:50.380 Can you fire Rashida Jones?

00:21:52.320 No.

00:21:53.100 Can you do that?

00:21:53.620 I didn't think so.

00:21:54.460 She's got the double.

00:21:56.060 That's the black and the woman.

00:21:57.420 That's their whole thing.

00:21:57.920 On fire.

00:21:58.340 It's all they care about.

00:21:58.980 We've tried to fire Camille.

00:22:00.400 And, like, we don't even care about those politics.

00:22:02.500 And he's like, nope.

00:22:03.420 Sorry.

00:22:03.880 It's in the rules.

00:22:04.200 I'm sorry.

00:22:04.940 I don't know if you know how.

00:22:05.680 As he refers to it, he has the melanin force field, which is Camille's term for his protection.

00:22:10.100 I think they have to fire somebody because they have a staff revolt.

00:22:12.660 And, I mean, it's the thing that we've seen so many times.

00:22:15.060 Although it feels a little bit hungover, right?

00:22:16.400 It was like – that was classic 2020 behavior.

00:22:19.300 It started with a Me Too ramp up and then, like, when everyone lost their mind in the summer of 2020.

00:22:23.680 The Woody Allen book, Spotify with Rogan, staff revolts.

00:22:27.540 Which, you know, now Neil Young's back on Spotify.

00:22:29.800 Oh, he's such a – you know what he is.

00:22:32.300 The P word.

00:22:33.000 Knows where he is on any given day.

00:22:35.260 But it feels like that is crested.

00:22:37.820 But still you have these places, generally large institutions, who will make the mistake of having, like, a staff meeting to talk about a controversial, read, political, coded event.

00:22:51.140 And they're still in terror of their staffs and of their 25-year-olds and 30-year-olds.

00:22:54.620 On that front, did you see the letter from the head, the head guy over at NBC, Cesar, whatever his last name is.

00:22:59.600 Conda.

00:23:00.140 Yeah, thank you.

00:23:01.160 Who – he said you can't run a newsroom without cohesion amongst the staff.

00:23:07.340 Yes.

00:23:07.860 What?

00:23:08.460 Absolutely.

00:23:09.160 That's the only way you can run a newsroom.

00:23:10.340 What?

00:23:10.420 So 100 percent.

00:23:11.260 What are you saying?

00:23:12.100 Yeah.

00:23:12.380 Yeah.

00:23:12.540 So we all have to be in agreement before we can make any executive moves, any hires, any directional changes, any story pitches.

00:23:18.420 Real leadership.

00:23:19.300 That's insane.

00:23:20.160 And that's the head of NBC.

00:23:20.840 And people at home don't necessarily always understand the difference.

00:23:25.280 NBC News is a fairly straight for a broadcast company news division, just like CBS has a news division.

00:23:34.400 That's like MSNBC is understood to be more to the partisan tip of the spear.

00:23:38.180 And this is part of actually the story.

00:23:39.960 Like the Roe McDaniel hire – they hired her first at NBC and then like let's go on MSNBC where we're more partisan.

00:23:46.020 So when the head of NBC, right, the more truth-seeking news organization is saying we need staff cohesion.

00:23:52.380 Cohesive and aligned, he said, the newsroom must be.

00:23:54.960 God, no.

00:23:55.760 Diversity.

00:23:56.080 I mean Reason Magazine, which I worked for and have for 20 years, a libertarian magazine.

00:24:00.820 We know where libertarians are coming from, where Reason staffers are coming from.

00:24:04.500 We still disagree with each other about plenty of things internally.

00:24:07.820 It couldn't be that someone would work there and say, you know what?

00:24:10.520 The government needs to solve every problem.

00:24:12.380 OK, you're not going to – it's not going to work out here.

00:24:15.340 But there's all kinds of ways and all kinds of issues, abortion, immigration, whatever, where that – there could be disagreements of it.

00:24:21.920 We don't want everyone to be aligned because then suddenly you're not going to be able to speak to everybody in your audience.

00:24:27.840 And you're going to get things wrong.

00:24:29.220 And you're going to get things wrong.

00:24:30.140 Exactly.

00:24:30.600 So you know Cheryl Ackeson, former – she worked at CNN for a few years and then she spent most of her career at CBS.

00:24:36.740 I really – I love her and I love her podcast.

00:24:39.080 And she was just telling a story on her podcast the other day.

00:24:41.300 She's very just the facts, ma'am.

00:24:42.720 You know, she really is.

00:24:43.660 And she was talking about how when she was at CBS News and Hillary Clinton was running for president in 1516, she told that lie about getting shot at at the airport in Bosnia.

00:24:52.220 In San Rambo.

00:24:52.760 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:53.760 And Cheryl had been with her on that trip as a CBS News correspondent.

00:24:59.060 And didn't get shot at.

00:25:01.420 Yeah.

00:25:01.720 Doesn't remember any bullets.

00:25:02.940 That's the kind of thing you'd remember.

00:25:03.960 And actually had videotape from the moment.

00:25:07.220 And went to her bosses at CBS News.

00:25:09.060 She was like, well, I got something helpful to show you here because I was there.

00:25:12.360 Maybe it was when she was with CNN.

00:25:13.560 I don't know when she had the tape from.

00:25:15.240 But in any event, she was talking about how her boss, I think it was Rick Kaplan, who was a lefty and was aligned with the Clintons and friends with them.

00:25:23.380 She kind of said to him, like, sorry.

00:25:26.440 And he was like, absolutely not.

00:25:28.040 He was like, it's a great story.

00:25:29.160 And she's like, well, I know you're close with them.

00:25:30.400 And he's like, not that close.

00:25:31.540 We're running that tonight.

00:25:32.680 That's right.

00:25:33.240 That's journalism.

00:25:34.480 That's journalism.

00:25:35.300 You don't care about your partisan affiliations.

00:25:37.840 You don't need cohesive and aligned.

00:25:39.840 We disagree on politics.

00:25:42.080 But this is a story and we're running it.

00:25:44.260 They're trying to win elections.

00:25:45.740 It's totally changed.

00:25:46.280 They're very clear about that at MSNBC.

00:25:48.140 And they're doing penance for giving Donald Trump so much airtime on Morning Joe.

00:25:53.580 Yes.

00:25:53.860 Not just airtime.

00:25:55.040 But sycophantic coverage.

00:25:56.720 Sycophantic running your hands through his hair kind of thing.

00:25:58.360 This stuff was absolutely bizarre.

00:26:00.460 There's something else up the rectum.

00:26:02.860 What?

00:26:04.080 Why'd you say that, Matt?

00:26:06.640 These are supposed to go on, right?

00:26:08.560 I thought we were going to break.

00:26:10.760 I was hoping we were.

00:26:12.580 But also, speaking of fake war stories, like, you actually have Brian Williams there.

00:26:16.780 Oh, my God.

00:26:17.560 We haven't even talked about him.

00:26:19.200 He's like, because when he was shot down in Iraq.

00:26:20.940 They're telling us we're about truth.

00:26:22.960 Yeah, we're about truth.

00:26:23.800 But when he was shot down in Iraq, and he was tortured by Saddam Hussein's son, Uday and

00:26:28.060 Qusay at the same time.

00:26:29.440 But he got out.

00:26:29.920 He's a remarkable survivor's tale.

00:26:31.880 But I think what you see, this is kind of the thing that no one expected or gamed out

00:26:38.320 with this obsession with there being a truth.

00:26:41.200 We are in possession of the truth.

00:26:43.000 There is one truth.

00:26:44.180 This woman's coming, and she said things that aren't true.

00:26:46.540 But you have two.

00:26:47.700 But Al Sharpton has.

00:26:48.760 But Brian Williams has.

00:26:50.300 But, you know, Rachel Maddow has.

00:26:51.680 No, no, no.

00:26:52.220 No, this is we have truth.

00:26:53.840 That's not that those are fine.

00:26:55.320 This is not true.

00:26:56.440 And so therefore, we cannot have those people on.

00:26:58.680 And when you're a part of an organization, what does that do?

00:27:01.180 It narrows it down to having people that just agree with you and agree with your conception

00:27:04.880 of truth.

00:27:05.660 And I'm starting to sound like a postmodernist.

00:27:07.480 But, you know, what is truth in that sense?

00:27:09.540 I mean, it is true that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7th.

00:27:13.620 Why that happened is up for interpretation.

00:27:15.440 The thing about they say that there is a truth about these things that is never clearly

00:27:20.600 defined, but it's weaponized in this way against people like, you know, their Republican

00:27:25.600 opponents.

00:27:25.900 And again, I don't think she would be a good hire.

00:27:27.920 But truth is kind of a bullshit reason to fire.

00:27:30.740 All right.

00:27:31.080 Now, we've done CBS and we've done NBC.

00:27:33.940 And next, we're going to do ABC.

00:27:35.400 And what happened when Coleman Hughes went on with women who, I mean, the battle of intellectual

00:27:42.260 wits there was really unfair.

00:27:43.900 It was a real David and Goliath situation.

00:27:47.720 And it's absolutely delicious.

00:27:49.440 We'll do it after a quick break as the guys stay with us.

00:27:52.360 Don't go away.

00:27:57.020 Okay.

00:27:57.500 So, Coleman Hughes.

00:27:59.160 And I don't know if you guys, I don't know if I've told you this story, but I've told the

00:28:02.280 audience years ago because he's been on the show a bunch of times.

00:28:04.440 This is how I met Coleman.

00:28:05.480 This is how much I love Coleman.

00:28:07.280 I had just been canned from NBC.

00:28:09.620 Technically, I was only let go from the show.

00:28:11.600 What happened after that remains confidential.

00:28:15.340 Okay.

00:28:15.580 But in any event, we had separated.

00:28:17.440 And everybody's calling me a racist.

00:28:19.760 All the papers and all is like because of the Halloween thing.

00:28:22.920 So, I go to the comedy cellar with Doug, which is a great place to take in comedy here.

00:28:28.260 And we saw a great set.

00:28:30.260 Had a great time.

00:28:31.100 Sat down afterward with Noam, who runs the joint.

00:28:34.780 And Coleman.

00:28:35.580 Coleman was there.

00:28:36.180 I didn't know Coleman.

00:28:36.860 He introduces me.

00:28:38.720 Coleman comes over and he's like, what's happening to you is total bullshit.

00:28:43.300 This is so unfair.

00:28:45.140 And I was like, oh my God.

00:28:46.800 You know, it's like this young black guy who's like, I see.

00:28:50.640 I see what they're doing.

00:28:52.060 Like, you're good.

00:28:53.000 And it was just, it meant so much to me.

00:28:54.740 And a friendship was born.

00:28:55.920 He's been great to me ever since.

00:28:57.100 He's a lovely guy.

00:28:57.400 And I love him too.

00:28:58.500 So, he goes on The View, which is great.

00:29:00.760 I love to see him getting his message out there and going on, you know, these other places

00:29:04.140 where that's the audience that needs to hear Coleman's message, right?

00:29:06.920 Like, exactly the audience.

00:29:08.300 And he's got a new book out, which I will get the name of so that we can promote it here

00:29:11.980 too.

00:29:12.760 And of course, Coleman's whole thing on the issues of race are more like you, Camille.

00:29:17.620 Like, colorblind.

00:29:18.560 Like, stop.

00:29:19.100 I'm not all about my race.

00:29:20.560 Stop making my race so important.

00:29:22.340 Like, what matters is character and values and so on.

00:29:25.040 Well, the ladies of The View didn't much like that, especially Sonny Hostel.

00:29:31.940 Watch.

00:29:34.140 We should try our very best to treat people without regard to race, both in our personal

00:29:38.380 lives and our public policy.

00:29:40.060 Of course.

00:29:40.380 And the reason I wrote this book, thank you.

00:29:42.380 Congratulations.

00:29:43.140 Congratulations.

00:29:45.120 The reason I wrote this book is because in the past 10 years, it has become very popular

00:29:49.620 to, in the name of anti-racism, teach a kind of philosophy to our children in general that

00:29:55.280 says your race is everything, right?

00:29:57.180 And I think that is the wrong way to fight racism.

00:29:59.920 I don't want to say it's your youth, but I think you have a point, but I think you have

00:30:06.840 to also take into consideration what people have lived through.

00:30:10.340 The default right now in a lot of areas of policy is to use, you know, black and Hispanic

00:30:15.440 identity as a proxy for disadvantage.

00:30:17.540 And my argument is that you actually get a better picture of who needs help by looking

00:30:21.420 at socioeconomics and income.

00:30:24.020 That picks out people in a more accurate way.

00:30:28.180 And I've read your book twice because I wanted to give it a chance.

00:30:30.800 Sure.

00:30:31.420 Your argument that race has no place in that equation is really fundamentally flawed.

00:30:37.860 Okay.

00:30:38.520 Okay.

00:30:38.940 So she really gives it to him in the next stop, which we're going to run in a second,

00:30:41.660 but just what do you make of the setup?

00:30:43.500 Because Whoopi kicks it off with, you're too young to know anything.

00:30:47.120 And we, back in the day, we never even taught black history, which is why we've overcorrected

00:30:51.900 now to the point where race is dominating everything.

00:30:54.500 So that's how they kick it off.

00:30:55.540 The name of the book, by the way, is The End of Race Politics.

00:30:58.420 The End of Race Politics by Coleman Hughes.

00:31:00.320 The subtitle.

00:31:00.980 The Case for Colorblindness.

00:31:02.140 The End of Race Politics, I think.

00:31:03.480 Right?

00:31:03.540 Well done.

00:31:03.960 Yeah.

00:31:04.280 Yes.

00:31:04.540 So what do we make of just the scene setting by The View and how it kicked off?

00:31:09.680 I mean, where does one begin already?

00:31:12.120 I mean, the fact that I love this thing.

00:31:13.960 I read the book twice because I wanted to give it a chance.

00:31:16.600 And she was like, this is a piece of shit.

00:31:17.800 I'm going to read it one more time.

00:31:19.800 It's a lie.

00:31:20.600 I don't think you read it once.

00:31:22.080 She didn't read anything.

00:31:22.700 She seems to have picked through.

00:31:23.780 But to cut, like, it's like, that's what a dumb person says to sound like they're smart.

00:31:28.540 Like, it's fundamentally flawed.

00:31:30.400 And it's not, I mean, the premise itself is, I suppose people can say it's controversial.

00:31:34.540 But it's not flawed.

00:31:36.100 And then she's going to go on.

00:31:37.400 And obviously, you'll play that.

00:31:39.000 But you see the hostility at the very beginning.

00:31:42.560 And these are not people that are coming to this with an open mind and saying, well, here's

00:31:46.700 a guy with a different set of views about this.

00:31:48.800 Let's listen to him.

00:31:49.880 The Whoopi Goldberg idea that, you know, there's no timeline here.

00:31:54.000 I don't know how old she is.

00:31:55.260 But she says, you know, we never learned this.

00:31:57.420 I am not young.

00:31:59.060 And in seventh grade, I had the entire year was on slavery and the Holocaust.

00:32:03.160 This is not a new thing.

00:32:04.540 Did we teach it in the best possible way?

00:32:06.040 Absolutely not.

00:32:06.900 Were things good back when?

00:32:07.900 No, it's not.

00:32:08.600 But to say that.

00:32:09.780 She's 68.

00:32:10.540 She's 68.

00:32:11.180 OK.

00:32:11.620 To say that without mentioning in the same breath any amount of progress.

00:32:16.660 And we've talked about this a lot on the show.

00:32:18.040 The number of people who have said to me, who I've heard in public, who say that we've

00:32:23.000 made no progress is astonishing to me, astonishing to me.

00:32:27.040 And that is kind of feeding into that narrative, which I find disingenuous.

00:32:30.120 If you watch, I don't think we have this in the clip.

00:32:31.920 My team will tell me, but in the next clip.

00:32:33.880 But Coleman goes on to say, we actually were doing very well on our racism as a country.

00:32:41.680 And it's pegged to 2013 when it started to go back down.

00:32:44.740 He's like, it wasn't because of Obama and it wasn't because of Trump.

00:32:48.560 He pegs it to, in large part, the iPhone and the nonstop feeds that we get where I would

00:32:55.580 say the left and their operatives are pushing like one.

00:32:58.640 Trayvon Martin.

00:32:59.060 Yeah, exactly.

00:32:59.860 One black man getting shot by a cop over and over and over.

00:33:02.000 And then it's amplified by the Russians.

00:33:03.220 But Coleman was saying, it's us.

00:33:04.380 We've done it to ourselves.

00:33:05.300 Without a doubt.

00:33:05.820 OK, but here's so Sonny's getting upset because one of the big problems with Coleman is

00:33:10.220 he's black and you can't dismiss it.

00:33:13.160 Please take that quote out of context.

00:33:14.740 It's just the worst.

00:33:19.400 Sonny would love to be like, OK, Karen, but she can't.

00:33:25.640 Yeah.

00:33:25.820 Right.

00:33:26.180 She can't.

00:33:27.900 So here's how it went from there.

00:33:30.260 Yeah.

00:33:31.860 Your argument for colorblindness, I think, is something that the right has co-opted.

00:33:37.020 And so many in the black community, if I'm being honest with you, because I want to be

00:33:42.700 that you are being used as a pawn by the right and that you're a charlatan of sorts.

00:33:47.640 He's not a Republican.

00:33:48.580 So how do you.

00:33:49.300 He's never voted for a Republican.

00:33:51.020 You've said that you're a conservative.

00:33:52.800 No.

00:33:53.160 No.

00:33:53.500 No, you did.

00:33:54.300 You actually said that in a podcast that you did two weeks ago.

00:33:58.000 I said I was a conservative.

00:33:58.880 He's not.

00:33:59.200 He's not.

00:33:59.620 Yes, he did.

00:34:00.140 I'm I don't think I've been co-opted by anyone.

00:34:02.200 I've only voted twice, both for Democrats, although I'm an independent.

00:34:05.280 I would vote for a Republican, probably a non-Trump Republican if they were compelling.

00:34:09.600 I don't think there's any evidence I've been co-opted by anyone.

00:34:12.080 And I think that that's that's an ad hominem tactic people use to not address really the

00:34:17.780 important conversations we're having here.

00:34:19.480 And I think it's better and it would be better for everyone if we stuck to the topics rather

00:34:24.680 than make it about me.

00:34:25.560 I want to give you the opportunity to respond to the I appreciate the criticism.

00:34:29.740 I appreciate it.

00:34:30.220 There's no evidence that I've been co-opted by anyone.

00:34:32.900 I want to give you the opportunity.

00:34:34.360 This is an opportunity for you to respond to.

00:34:36.940 I just made.

00:34:38.060 And then pinned on other unnamed people.

00:34:40.160 In fact, it was an opportunity.

00:34:41.720 I mean, like part of what makes this whole clip compelling and worth talking about is

00:34:46.280 that she channeled a lot of the way that people interact with Coleman Hughes in the

00:34:50.380 world.

00:34:50.900 That is a style of argumentation that is really popular in the media.

00:34:54.640 Canada and broadly on the left as well of like, oh, you know, you're being co-opted

00:34:59.140 by the right.

00:34:59.720 You said something that the bad people agreed with and like retweeted or did this.

00:35:04.940 And I thought that you were an ally and now I guess you're not an ally or whatever.

00:35:08.240 This is a style of argumentation.

00:35:09.940 And it was great to see Coleman with his like heart rate down at 42, as it always is, point

00:35:17.520 out that this is a bad style of argumentation.

00:35:20.760 And also she got straight to the charlatan part.

00:35:22.780 Oh, she's like, I don't mean to offend you, but you're a pawn, a charlatan and a conservative.

00:35:27.340 It's deplorable.

00:35:28.120 Which one's worse?

00:35:28.740 Yeah.

00:35:28.920 It's one of the most incredible displays of condescension I have seen on network television.

00:35:33.740 And I think that's saying a lot.

00:35:35.160 And I can only imagine what the interactions were like there behind the scene.

00:35:39.300 Coleman keeping his composure, all credit to him.

00:35:42.100 But it is just such an embarrassing, embarrassing thing to see happen.

00:35:45.640 And for him to, you know, to be gracious, thank her for the opportunity to respond to these

00:35:50.820 things.

00:35:51.360 When I'm having a sophisticated argument about some important issue that has great gravity

00:35:55.860 to me, the last thing that I want to do is burn time talking about this person's presumed

00:36:01.880 motives and the way that they've been mind controlled into having their particular views.

00:36:07.200 Talk about my ideas.

00:36:08.880 Don't talk about me.

00:36:09.760 Don't talk about my relationship with my kids or my wife if it isn't relevant to the

00:36:13.300 discussion.

00:36:14.080 Talk about the ideas.

00:36:15.500 He did that.

00:36:16.100 He stuck to the point.

00:36:16.840 There is a reason why people like Sonny run away from the opportunity to actually debate

00:36:21.940 the merits of very crystal clear, transparent proposals.

00:36:26.040 Coleman is a dear friend of mine, but I would say this if it weren't the case.

00:36:30.260 His book is really stellar.

00:36:31.920 People should go out and grab it.

00:36:33.300 And he and I have some pretty meaningful disagreements about certain things.

00:36:36.800 It's like colorblindness is not actually my jive, but I do think what he is doing in

00:36:41.440 public is important and relevant and is helping to elevate our discussions about race and

00:36:46.180 a range of other issues.

00:36:47.600 So I'm really grateful for that.

00:36:48.020 You saw the bit at the end though, right, Camille, where he was saying, what I'm saying

00:36:50.920 is, he also says, like, it's not about colorblind exactly.

00:36:54.000 Like, I understand people do see color.

00:36:55.800 Yeah, that's the part I disagree with, actually.

00:36:57.280 Right, right.

00:36:57.720 But he then went on to say, like, I'm saying, I don't like the super emphasis on race.

00:37:03.980 You know, I want people to be judged by their character, by their values.

00:37:06.800 And the audience did erupt in a blood.

00:37:08.080 The audience is with him.

00:37:09.900 And I think it tells you a great deal.

00:37:11.400 The executives in the C-suite, the people who are hosting these shows, they may be complete

00:37:16.360 fundamentalist ideologues on these issues.

00:37:18.660 But regular people, everyday Americans generally share the same sensibilities.

00:37:24.580 They want to do the, they believe in human dignity.

00:37:27.540 They want to judge people on the basis of their individuality.

00:37:30.160 And I think a lot of people have been pulled in unhealthy directions in recent years, but

00:37:34.800 that is starting to snap back into the right place.

00:37:37.280 But that can only happen if people are going to be honest and sincere and share their genuine

00:37:42.300 perspectives on these issues.

00:37:43.820 Cowardice is really just dominant these days.

00:37:46.300 When she weighs into what would appear to be something of an intellectual argument, she

00:37:51.860 gets her ass handed to her immediately.

00:37:53.120 She quotes Martin Luther King, because, you know, by the way, she knows King's daughter.

00:37:59.100 Yes.

00:37:59.460 Yeah.

00:37:59.760 Just so you know, I know her.

00:38:00.720 So I'm one up on you.

00:38:01.780 Three times.

00:38:02.320 I'm one up on you.

00:38:03.360 It's bizarre.

00:38:04.160 Bernice, who was texting me this morning, she doesn't like you.

00:38:07.340 Meanwhile, it's like, because any knowledge you would have of MLK is erased, thanks to the

00:38:12.300 fact that I know the daughter.

00:38:13.060 This is a historical figure we can all study.

00:38:16.340 Because Coleman says, well, yeah, you're not quoting what happens right after that, what

00:38:20.240 he says right after that.

00:38:21.520 But, you know, she says he's a conservative and then is fumbling.

00:38:24.440 It was in a podcast.

00:38:25.400 And he's like, well, I'm not.

00:38:26.520 OK.

00:38:26.940 And we went back and fact check that.

00:38:28.200 It's not true.

00:38:29.080 Somebody else said it about him.

00:38:30.920 Coleman did not say that about himself.

00:38:32.420 The New York Times did that.

00:38:33.740 And he was, I mean, you could have just looked.

00:38:35.260 I think he tweeted about it.

00:38:36.140 Other people were like, Coleman's not a conservative.

00:38:37.920 And they said he was.

00:38:39.760 But it's just on this issue.

00:38:41.000 He had tweeted that, like, if you want to call me a conservative, I'm not going to be

00:38:44.560 bothered.

00:38:45.220 But that's not how I call myself.

00:38:46.360 That's not how I'm right.

00:38:46.840 Yeah.

00:38:47.100 Yes.

00:38:47.340 Aha!

00:38:49.460 That's how the thinking is at The View.

00:38:51.420 But can we just say what she is saying in so many dumb, sort of convoluted ways?

00:38:59.960 She's trying to call him an Uncle Tom.

00:39:02.440 Yes.

00:39:02.860 That's what it is.

00:39:03.640 Without a doubt.

00:39:04.100 Why do white people on the right like you?

00:39:07.960 And I remember one time I was in a green room at Fox in probably 2010 or something.

00:39:14.760 And I was sitting, and I will tell the person's name because we don't really know each other,

00:39:18.160 but I was sitting, I said, Jonah Goldberg.

00:39:19.280 And this was in D.C.

00:39:20.280 And there was somebody on that was saying something crazy.

00:39:23.340 And I said to Jonah, who, again, I don't know very well.

00:39:26.140 I said, you know, this is going to be on after this guy.

00:39:28.660 It's kind of humiliating.

00:39:30.000 And he just looked at me and he said, you're only responsible for what you say.

00:39:33.320 Don't worry about anybody else.

00:39:34.800 And it was just, I don't, you would never remember this.

00:39:36.740 It was a throwaway comment.

00:39:37.680 And it stuck with me.

00:39:38.480 I was like, yeah, no, I don't care who fucking retweets me.

00:39:41.140 Sorry.

00:39:41.360 I don't care who retweets me.

00:39:42.820 I don't care who likes my stuff, provided I have the sort of, you know, firepower to

00:39:48.180 say this is the argument that I'm making and this is why it's true, to say that and

00:39:52.560 say, well, why, and co-opted, what does that mean?

00:39:56.860 So this, the New York Times, just to add to what you're saying.

00:40:00.280 The New York Times had a headline about him, the young black conservative who grew up with

00:40:05.100 and rejects DEI.

00:40:07.400 I mean, it's wrong in the first, in the title of the article.

00:40:10.480 They keep calling me a Republican in all of their article.

00:40:13.240 I'm not a Republican.

00:40:14.280 I've been a registered independent for almost 20 years.

00:40:16.640 I've actually asked them to correct it.

00:40:18.160 They don't.

00:40:18.600 It's just like, they won't.

00:40:19.700 They have their mind made up about who you are and that's where they go with.

00:40:22.240 Then this guy, Clay Cain, who's got some number of followers on X, retweets that New York Times

00:40:28.160 headline and writes, Coleman Hughes calls for a colorblind society, but this New York Times

00:40:33.000 headline says he's a black conservative.

00:40:35.320 He's getting press because he is black.

00:40:38.720 Calling.

00:40:39.140 It's all in caps.

00:40:40.020 That's why I'm saying it like that.

00:40:41.340 Calling for colorblindness.

00:40:42.840 Why is his race mentioned?

00:40:43.940 Shouldn't he denounce any mention of his race, grift on?

00:40:50.060 Like Coleman's got some obligation to run all over all of his press mentions.

00:40:54.100 He's not Camille Foster.

00:40:55.640 Camille would be out there denouncing the whole thing.

00:40:58.340 But I know what Camille would think about this, but I'm, you know, I have a slightly different

00:41:02.820 view on this.

00:41:03.560 Like he should, I'm glad that it's being presented that he's a black person.

00:41:08.620 And the reason is, is because there is a instinct, particularly on the left, that

00:41:13.840 to be black is to think one way.

00:41:16.360 And if you're going to highlight this, why are you highlighting it?

00:41:19.120 It's because there's many ways of quote unquote being black.

00:41:22.140 If you believe it is such a thing, Camille does not.

00:41:24.700 But if you're going to go there and say, well, everybody, and then the polls, the Trump

00:41:29.280 polls, you see them inching up.

00:41:30.740 People say, I can't, how is this happening?

00:41:32.860 Well, you've been telling everybody on television, on radio, in books, in newspapers and magazines

00:41:37.460 for years, that to be black is one set of political beliefs.

00:41:42.920 And that is not true.

00:41:44.600 If Coleman, by quote unquote being black, can maybe complicate that idea for people, maybe

00:41:49.360 that's a good thing.

00:41:49.940 He's a threat.

00:41:50.980 The interesting discussion about MLK was also a highlight of this for me.

00:41:55.700 So he's trying to say MLK recognized what the society has done to black Americans through

00:42:03.000 slavery and Jim Crow and all that, and that he thought the solution was focus on increasing

00:42:08.320 people's socioeconomic status, people who are at the bottom rung.

00:42:11.140 And that will help blacks and Latinos and so on, people who are historically more poor

00:42:15.580 and in that group.

00:42:16.320 But it'll also help disadvantaged whites.

00:42:18.300 And that was MLK's solution.

00:42:19.960 And she was like, but it was about race.

00:42:22.680 He's like, he recognized what had happened to black people, but his whole, his remedy

00:42:30.340 was the way to solve it is to look at who's poor and to help them.

00:42:35.100 And yes, that, that will help blacks who have been disadvantaged, Latinos, whites too.

00:42:38.920 And she couldn't get past the fact that no, what he wanted was reparations for blacks.

00:42:45.120 And they had a disagreement about the substance of what was in MLK's book.

00:42:48.440 We went back and looked at it.

00:42:49.420 You won't be surprised to learn Coleman was right.

00:42:51.400 Coleman was right.

00:42:52.280 Sonny was misstating the facts as usual.

00:42:55.480 And by the way, reading off her little note cards, right?

00:42:58.080 I've been on the view.

00:42:59.380 Let me tell you something.

00:43:00.220 They write everything.

00:43:01.380 I've, I've been like, they, they write your questions for you.

00:43:03.800 They write like for the guests.

00:43:05.860 They tell you where exactly what they're going to ask because they know, because it's all

00:43:08.620 choreographed.

00:43:09.400 And so Sonny Hostin got it wrong having written it before she actually sat down or at least read

00:43:14.560 a producer's writings.

00:43:15.900 Anyway, they tried to embarrass him.

00:43:17.280 They didn't know their scholarship and Coleman stuffed it down.

00:43:20.280 It was a thing of beauty.

00:43:22.280 Yeah.

00:43:22.540 Yeah.

00:43:22.760 She's a, she's an academic, right?

00:43:24.600 Sonny, Sonny Hostin.

00:43:26.100 I, by the way, I just want to point this out again.

00:43:28.340 I pointed it out many times in the show.

00:43:29.720 Um, I had never heard of this woman until you forced me to, I don't know, I still don't

00:43:36.080 know who she is.

00:43:36.680 Only seeing her on the show.

00:43:37.280 Who is she?

00:43:37.840 You're welcome.

00:43:38.500 Yeah, but what does she do?

00:43:40.000 You're looking for her.

00:43:40.400 But I mean, I know she humiliates herself on television, but so do I.

00:43:44.040 What?

00:43:44.440 She's the ship that keeps on giving point in.

00:43:46.200 Is she an actress?

00:43:48.080 No, she's a lawyer.

00:43:49.100 She's a former prosecutor.

00:43:50.280 Oh.

00:43:50.740 I used to debate her on Bill O'Reilly back when I was like, uh.

00:43:53.980 Was she better then?

00:43:54.820 No, no, not really.

00:43:56.420 She was less partisan.

00:43:57.520 Mm-hmm.

00:43:57.780 Like, she wasn't dumb.

00:43:59.620 Um, you know, we used to have our debates on O'Reilly and, you know, I used to crush

00:44:02.920 her.

00:44:03.400 She, she comes out and says, like, I used to kill Megyn Kelly on, on O'Reilly.

00:44:06.520 I'm like, that's why you got pushed out and I got my own primetime show.

00:44:09.780 In any event.

00:44:10.840 Available evidence suggests otherwise.

00:44:12.240 I'm sorry, just like facts are facts.

00:44:13.820 But so now she's gone to The View and what happened to her is kind of what happened to

00:44:18.340 Nicole Wallace over at MSNBC, where like you're immersed in this far left thinking all

00:44:22.280 day, every day, and it like, it rubs off on you like a stank.

00:44:25.360 And now she's just, she sees everything through her partisan lens.

00:44:29.160 She's the opposite of like Alan Dershowitz, who also is a Democrat.

00:44:32.620 He's a liberal.

00:44:33.760 He is not going to vote for Trump.

00:44:36.180 But notwithstanding the fact that he's been immersed in academia for all these 50 plus

00:44:40.020 years, it hasn't rubbed off onto him to where his legal analysis gets sacrificed in

00:44:45.380 the name of hard partisanship.

00:44:47.220 He sees things first through his constitutional lens and then secondly talks about what he

00:44:51.020 would like as a partisan.

00:44:52.160 She's not able to do it.

00:44:53.160 It's audience capture, right?

00:44:54.520 I mean, that's what we've seen with a lot of people in our universe, right?

00:44:58.920 I think that's certainly part of it.

00:45:00.420 There's a loud section of the audience who would respond in a really critical way where

00:45:04.920 she'd deviate from certain sacred cows with respect to issues.

00:45:09.460 But it's also the case that the audience in the room, when Coleman was presenting his

00:45:12.860 arguments, was enthusiastic and extremely excited to hear those ideas.

00:45:17.240 Yeah, I know.

00:45:17.600 It's a microcosm of everything.

00:45:19.340 It's the microcosm of like the New York Times comment section.

00:45:21.840 When they come out with a bunch of woke stuff, then the comments are like, what are you doing?

00:45:25.540 This is not liberalism as we understand it.

00:45:28.020 Also, just want to shout out Martin Luther King.

00:45:30.460 He doesn't get nearly enough credit.

00:45:34.160 He really doesn't.

00:45:34.900 Credit out here.

00:45:36.860 No, just the universality of his approach, of his writing, of his remedies is what makes

00:45:46.600 him, is one of the things that makes him such an incredible American character like Thomas

00:45:49.680 Jefferson, too.

00:45:50.520 I mean, it is a challenge to everybody, and it depends on what time of year or time of

00:45:56.280 the discourse it is, that he looked back at the founding, the Declaration of Independence.

00:46:01.740 That's where he got all this strength.

00:46:03.200 And he was criticized in real time.

00:46:04.360 That's not what Bernice said.

00:46:06.940 Exactly.

00:46:07.420 I just talked to him.

00:46:08.160 We just talked to Fat Joe in the green room, and he told us a completely different thing.

00:46:11.580 Fat Joe knows a lot.

00:46:12.660 And it's a great challenge, and there's universality even in his remedies right before he got killed

00:46:19.280 in the passage that was under dispute.

00:46:22.040 It should be a challenge.

00:46:23.720 He was looking for a kind of broader humanity out there, regardless of whether you agree with

00:46:29.160 this bit or that bit.

00:46:30.420 And part of the reason why everybody has a piece of Martin Luther King, like they did with

00:46:34.380 Thomas Jefferson, like they did with George Orwell, too, I think, and that they need to come

00:46:38.900 back and revisit the texts, that is an accomplishment that very few people who ever have worked in

00:46:47.200 the written language have ever managed.

00:46:48.800 I do think we have an obligation, though, and I share all of those sentiments to respect what

00:46:54.160 King has done and to think about what new vistas look like with respect to justice, which is part

00:46:59.220 of the reason why, to the extent Coleman and I have any disagreements about race stuff, my aspiration

00:47:04.580 is to transcend this notion of identifying ourselves by race and to recognize that there

00:47:09.520 is nothing fundamentally true about this notion of a kind of universal notion of blackness or

00:47:14.820 whiteness.

00:47:15.460 There is nothing that all black people have in common.

00:47:18.020 There is nothing fundamentally different about persons imagined to be black with respect to

00:47:22.720 someone who is imagined to be right.

00:47:24.160 We see the ridiculousness of race any time we talk about it, if we actually scrutinize it.

00:47:29.740 Coleman's mother isn't black.

00:47:31.280 What is this notion of him being a black man?

00:47:34.060 It's absurd.

00:47:35.020 We're completely incurious.

00:47:36.760 We have habituated ourselves to the practice of putting everything in the context of race,

00:47:42.500 and we can actually practice our way out of it if we can be thoughtful and sensible and

00:47:47.740 listen to people like Coleman who talk about these things in sane ways, and myself as well,

00:47:52.340 and give one another the benefit of regarding each other as individuals.

00:47:57.600 It's the least that I can do for you, and I'd hope it's the least you can do for me.

00:48:00.940 This is what Sage Steele was trying to say recently, too, right?

00:48:03.660 Also the same person.

00:48:04.980 Yes, man.

00:48:05.440 They ruined her career over there, and one of her biggest sins there was, A, she had some

00:48:09.020 questions about the vaccine mandates, but B, she had the nerve to say, like, okay, Barack

00:48:13.780 Obama identifies as white, even though he has one, as black, even though he has one white

00:48:17.560 parent and one black parent.

00:48:18.660 It's bizarre.

00:48:19.380 She's like, that's my same situation, she said, and I don't see it like that.

00:48:22.860 I'm mixed race, and I wouldn't say I'm black, and I feel like it would be sort of a rejection

00:48:26.620 of my mom, and I'm not comfortable.

00:48:28.760 That was too big a sin.

00:48:30.220 If you have brown skin, you have to own the black thing, otherwise you're hashtag part

00:48:34.660 of the problem.

00:48:35.640 It's insane what we're doing to each other.

00:48:37.820 Stand by.

00:48:38.400 There's so much more to get to, and we will do it in next hour.

00:48:41.180 Don't go away.

00:48:41.580 Okay, so I would be remiss while we're on the topic of media if I didn't mention that

00:48:50.400 Don Lemon has a new show, and kicked it off with Elon Musk, and got fired before, and

00:48:56.040 it may, I know you're joking that it's so good, but, because you haven't watched it,

00:49:00.000 but I did get some clips for you, Moynihan.

00:49:02.120 Oh, I watched the Elon one.

00:49:03.580 Is this a new episode?

00:49:04.280 Yes, this is a new little compilation of his questions.

00:49:06.220 Is this like a review copy?

00:49:07.500 Questions, you tell me what you think about this, to Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful, just

00:49:14.640 yesterday on his show.

00:49:18.500 TikTok.

00:49:19.520 Oh, no.

00:49:20.180 Time is running out for the social platform known as TikTok.

00:49:23.180 Oh, no.

00:49:24.100 Hi, everyone.

00:49:24.520 I'm Don Lemon.

00:49:25.020 Welcome to the Don Lemon Show, and I couldn't help myself with that one, because many people,

00:49:28.680 including senators, members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, they have really

00:49:32.820 expressed concerns about TikTok's Chinese ownership, that it compromises this platform

00:49:39.240 and that platform.

00:49:40.360 I want you to compare that to, you know, what is happening with other platforms, including

00:49:45.080 X.

00:49:45.440 But, so, if you're concerned about the Chinese in all of this, then why do it?

00:49:53.740 But I just want to get to some other things before I get into that.

00:49:56.220 I don't know if you saw me writing notes.

00:49:57.800 I was writing down, White House, National Security Advisor, and now Donald Trump I'm going

00:50:01.700 to write down, because I want to talk to you about, is that why you feel the way you feel

00:50:05.660 about his court cases?

00:50:07.160 Why am I here?

00:50:07.600 But stand by for that.

00:50:08.560 Okay, listen.

00:50:09.160 So, I want you to compare this to X.

00:50:12.540 That's, you know, that's Elon Musk's, you know, digital platform, a social media platform.

00:50:19.140 And it has caused intense controversy.

00:50:21.740 Is he having a stroke?

00:50:23.800 Oh, my God.

00:50:24.840 Do you think the digital town squares, any of them, like these, should be owned by one person

00:50:29.900 or one organization who the person owns the microphone, and the speaker, and the volume?

00:50:36.360 What?

00:50:38.140 Well.

00:50:41.300 What a great cut.

00:50:44.160 Steve Krakauer.

00:50:46.000 Well done.

00:50:46.860 Fabulous.

00:50:47.420 It's like public access.

00:50:48.800 That is amazing.

00:50:50.160 What's happening?

00:50:51.180 I'm going to write some notes.

00:50:52.540 Can you hang on for a second?

00:50:53.820 That is amazing.

00:50:55.220 And it's what I noticed, and I have to be honest about this, when the Elon thing came

00:50:59.120 out, that he had fired him, right?

00:51:00.700 I said, well, that's terrible.

00:51:01.880 That's not good.

00:51:02.700 From Elon's point of view.

00:51:03.580 Yeah, from Elon's point of view.

00:51:04.320 That's terrible.

00:51:04.800 You shouldn't do that.

00:51:05.560 And then we hadn't recorded an episode.

00:51:07.540 And then by the time we recorded the episode, I watched the interview, and I was like, oh,

00:51:10.960 that was absolutely the right decision.

00:51:12.620 This was not ideological.

00:51:14.080 It was the most bumbling, confused interview I'd ever heard.

00:51:18.060 And they were just awful questions.

00:51:19.720 Yeah.

00:51:19.840 And by the way, even the first thing that you show, TikTok's not even owned by China.

00:51:25.460 It's like Chinese ownership.

00:51:26.700 That's not even true.

00:51:27.780 But you see what happens.

00:51:29.300 And when you're ever an editor at a magazine or newspaper, I know Matt has done this, you'll

00:51:34.540 sometimes get copy from people that you loved, right?

00:51:37.500 And you'll see them without their makeup on.

00:51:39.820 And you're like, oh my God, they can't write.

00:51:41.600 All of us are doing it.

00:51:43.140 And then you see Don Lemon had a big staff, right?

00:51:45.180 And he has the IFB.

00:51:45.980 People are like, Don, you're swallowing your tongue again.

00:51:48.620 And I'll tell you what to say.

00:51:49.580 And he's like, okay, good.

00:51:50.620 You're wearing the weird glasses.

00:51:51.420 And no one is there.

00:51:52.260 He's doing it on his own.

00:51:53.780 And he's just like, so that, um, I don't know.

00:51:56.500 There's a thing that's called like X and this.

00:51:58.400 So is that good?

00:51:59.700 It's like the Chris Farley show on SNL.

00:52:01.560 If you ever saw that.

00:52:02.120 The greatest.

00:52:02.720 The greatest sketch of all time.

00:52:03.980 So like, you were a Beatle.

00:52:05.260 Remember when you were in the Beatles?

00:52:06.320 What was that like?

00:52:07.200 That was what that was.

00:52:08.800 Remember when you were on Shark Tank?

00:52:10.640 That was great.

00:52:12.540 Unbelievable.

00:52:12.860 Someone should put a wallet in his mouth.

00:52:15.480 Does anyone have a tongue depressor?

00:52:17.200 It was like a stroke.

00:52:17.700 I was worried about him.

00:52:21.640 The best part of that whole Elon Don Lemon flap is there's, there's a week.

00:52:27.220 Like this happens.

00:52:28.080 The news breaks.

00:52:29.240 Elon looks dumb.

00:52:30.300 It's stupid.

00:52:31.020 Yeah.

00:52:31.660 Mr. Free Speech.

00:52:32.840 By the end of seven days, Elon has put Starship up into orbit, the largest rocket in history.

00:52:39.080 He's helped a quadriplegic man, like learn to use the computer with his mind, which is amazing.

00:52:45.400 And he promises at the end of that, yeah, we're working on blindness next.

00:52:49.780 We're going to start installing chips in your head.

00:52:51.820 And yet he could not make a star out of Don Lemon.

00:52:55.000 He's like, this is too great a task.

00:52:57.720 Keep in mind that the other good thing he did that week was not pay Don Lemon a party, which is a noble role.

00:53:03.920 Don Lemon, who wanted half the company.

00:53:05.980 He wanted to do podcasts in space.

00:53:06.380 He wanted to be shot in his face, which was the only good idea.

00:53:08.380 He had a cyber truck.

00:53:09.500 He wanted editorial control over at Twitter.

00:53:12.220 Why not?

00:53:12.980 I mean, look at that.

00:53:13.740 Sure, right?

00:53:14.800 Sure.

00:53:15.260 He's a brilliant man.

00:53:15.940 So here's another little, little ditty.

00:53:18.660 He weighed in on Candace Owens parting ways with the Daily Wire.

00:53:22.500 And this is what he had to say about it.

00:53:25.800 Candace Owens finally went too far for the far right.

00:53:29.740 The real story here is not the drama.

00:53:32.080 It's not that.

00:53:32.920 It's not the Daily Wire.

00:53:34.500 They're office politics.

00:53:35.740 The story is the fact that Ben Shapiro, like Elon Musk before him, has been outed as a free speech fraud.

00:53:43.440 So to say that Candace Owens is a firebrand would really be inaccurate because bigotry is her bread and butter.

00:53:51.520 And that's exactly why Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire hired her.

00:53:55.460 They hired her because they traffic in bigotry and rage bait every single day, all while using free speech as a guise.

00:54:04.380 The moment that Candace Owens said something vile about Israel, poof, Candace Owens is gone.

00:54:11.700 Free speech for me, but not for thee.

00:54:15.840 Oh, God.

00:54:16.680 What?

00:54:17.320 He's so dramatic.

00:54:19.340 Straight out of the racial meadow.

00:54:21.560 Yeah, that like sarcastic kind of – he's incredibly dumb, isn't he?

00:54:25.140 You can, by the way, be a bigot and a firebrand at the same time.

00:54:28.240 Can I tell you something?

00:54:28.900 Here's a true conversation on our team, and I will do the person who responded the courtesy of not naming them.

00:54:33.520 But he also claimed – because Elon was calling him Don Veruca Salt Lemon because of his nasty demands.

00:54:40.220 Like, I want it all.

00:54:41.500 I want it all.

00:54:42.080 And he was like, I've never even heard of Veruca Salt.

00:54:44.280 And I'm like, that's a lie.

00:54:45.720 He grew up when I grew up.

00:54:46.840 We've all heard of Veruca Salt.

00:54:48.080 And the person on my team said in his – oh, we have it.

00:54:50.960 Okay, wait.

00:54:51.340 Let's listen.

00:54:51.760 We have lots of Don Lemon queued up.

00:54:53.120 Let's take a listen.

00:54:53.780 You know what I thought was funny?

00:54:56.600 Because in pain, I always laugh.

00:54:58.400 When he called you Veruca Salt from the – Elon Musk has been insulting Don.

00:55:03.440 Some of the stuff I won't even read because I'm just not going to read it.

00:55:06.720 But he said you were like Veruca Salt from – that you were asking for everything.

00:55:11.400 And I thought, well, who doesn't ask for everything in a negotiation?

00:55:15.660 I mean, he's a shrewd and smart businessman.

00:55:17.780 And to criticize you for asking – I think they said you asked for like $5 million and

00:55:23.240 $8 million up front and whatever those details are.

00:55:25.880 You asked for a Tesla truck.

00:55:26.960 I would have asked for a fleet of Teslas.

00:55:29.300 And you also wouldn't have done the job.

00:55:31.060 You would have humiliated yourself.

00:55:33.260 I was like, he's mad at you for being a good businessman?

00:55:37.860 Here's the thing.

00:55:39.140 That was a funny tweet.

00:55:39.940 You've got to admit it.

00:55:40.620 Veruca Salt was good.

00:55:41.220 Well, at least we have on the same call, right?

00:55:43.140 I don't know who that is.

00:55:44.940 I'm laugh.

00:55:45.380 Let me just say this.

00:55:46.560 It's an obvious distraction, right?

00:55:48.200 They're trying to sully by reputation.

00:55:50.540 They're trying to smear me.

00:55:52.120 I don't know who that is.

00:55:53.320 There's no way he doesn't know who Veruca Salt is.

00:55:55.280 But then said person on my team said, in his defense, he's dumb.

00:55:58.040 He doesn't know a lot of things.

00:55:59.480 Also, in his defense, Megan, no one knows Veruca Salt as well as you.

00:56:03.920 That's true.

00:56:04.700 That's true.

00:56:05.840 You probably had dinner with Veruca Salt.

00:56:08.280 100%.

00:56:08.680 I did have – yes.

00:56:09.980 I did.

00:56:10.880 That's right.

00:56:11.300 I have her in my phone.

00:56:12.880 I can text Veruca right now.

00:56:14.860 Yeah.

00:56:14.960 Don Lemon has no idea who you are.

00:56:16.640 He's like, who?

00:56:17.520 I don't know Don Lemon.

00:56:19.060 I told my nine-year-old daughter that because we recently watched the original and her mind was absolutely blown.

00:56:24.920 I'm finally someone because I know someone who knows Veruca Salt.

00:56:28.160 I'll give you some behind-the-scenes pictures you can show to her.

00:56:30.560 This is my only claim to fame.

00:56:32.720 Getting back to the very important issue at hand, I do want to point out that two people who have been fired from cable news, former MSNBC host and a former CNN host, who don't – you know, and has some – I don't know.

00:56:45.180 But where's that show, the Tamron Hall show?

00:56:47.360 Oh, yeah.

00:56:47.680 I don't – I think it's on, like, Bosnia or something.

00:56:49.540 I don't know.

00:56:50.140 The Albanian television.

00:56:51.460 It doesn't make a lot of headlines.

00:56:52.400 But I think that I understand why.

00:56:54.580 Because they both believe that asking for an insane thing is good at negotiating.

00:56:58.980 And you're like, that's just business.

00:57:00.900 That's just business.

00:57:01.620 They asked for $40 million.

00:57:03.680 I need $200 million.

00:57:05.620 What are they saying?

00:57:06.800 That is absurd.

00:57:08.240 What's wrong with you?

00:57:09.020 Everyone – trust me.

00:57:10.200 As somebody who actually has negotiated several contracts in cable news and broadcast news, you know, that's exactly the opposite of what you do.

00:57:18.680 You make a demand that is reasonable, that is a big, that, you know, you think you could get over what you think it's actually going to land at because you want to leave yourself some room for negotiation.

00:57:27.200 But you don't want to make yourself look like an asshole, right?

00:57:31.080 You're off on a new foot with your employer.

00:57:33.520 You don't want to make yourself look like an asshole.

00:57:35.300 Nobody in history has asked to be the first person in space and for full editorial control over any news decisions made.

00:57:45.540 Like, that's something – maybe Rachel Maddow has that at MSNBC because she appears to be running the joint.

00:57:50.200 Don Lemon at Twitter when this guy is resurrecting him from the dead?

00:57:54.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:54.720 The hubris.

00:57:55.520 If you went back 20 years and you thought there's going to be a cable news guy who sucks and gets fired and then in his next job he's going to demand to go into space or you can't hire him?

00:58:04.420 Like, what is going on with this world?

00:58:06.400 No, that – the interview style, watch the Elon Musk one.

00:58:09.560 He's a very bad debater.

00:58:12.040 He keeps getting tripped up by Musk who is like a very odd guy.

00:58:15.680 I mean I've seen him do this up close and he's just like a brilliant guy but he's kind of a weird, socially a very strange guy.

00:58:22.220 And he just handles him the whole time and he's flustered like the whole interview.

00:58:27.320 That's why it was so bad.

00:58:28.040 He's just not very good at follow-up questions.

00:58:30.360 He's reading off.

00:58:31.300 Don't read.

00:58:32.240 Listen.

00:58:32.640 Know your subject.

00:58:33.520 Listen.

00:58:34.100 And go in knowing your subject and talk.

00:58:35.800 Have a conversation.

00:58:36.320 One of the closing bits in that interview because I suspect most people haven't watched it all the way through.

00:58:41.120 You've seen clips.

00:58:41.740 But right towards the end, there's this moment where Elon says to Don, think about your next question very carefully.

00:58:49.680 You don't have much time left.

00:58:51.220 That's correct.

00:58:53.240 So good.

00:58:55.200 Truer words.

00:58:56.040 Well, apparently his second interview was of Kara Swisher, tech journalist Kara Swisher.

00:59:00.260 And she hasn't even retweeted it.

00:59:01.960 She retweets all of her podcasts.

00:59:03.220 At least she has it over the past – recent past.

00:59:05.960 Not that one.

00:59:07.160 If you're too dumb for Kara Swisher, ouch.

00:59:09.440 And then he sat down with somebody named Monique.

00:59:13.540 I guess she's a star.

00:59:14.500 I don't know Monique.

00:59:15.520 But apparently nobody knows her because the last we checked, it had 13,000 views.

00:59:18.940 She's like your Veruca Salt.

00:59:20.180 You have no idea who that is.

00:59:22.200 Except genuine.

00:59:23.220 Is she a singer?

00:59:23.940 I don't know.

00:59:24.220 She's whatever.

00:59:25.340 Anyway.

00:59:25.900 Comedian actress.

00:59:26.740 Okay.

00:59:27.100 She's not very popular.

00:59:28.140 Sorry, Monique.

00:59:28.720 Or at least maybe it's the forum.

00:59:30.080 She also accused Netflix of being racist, I think, for not giving her a big special.

00:59:34.880 There you go.

00:59:35.380 Go back.

00:59:35.860 I think that's true.

00:59:36.500 How much did she demand on her deal?

00:59:37.960 She demanded a lot.

00:59:38.620 And she, like Tamron Hall, is now doing a show out of a trailer.

00:59:42.900 That might be on network TV.

00:59:45.400 No idea.

00:59:45.980 That might be on network TV.

00:59:46.860 She's got good hair.

00:59:47.760 Let's move on to Sam Bankman-Fried.

00:59:50.340 He got sentenced today for all those crimes with respect to FTX and his cryptocurrency and the girlfriend with the hedge fund and all this investment nonsense that they were pulling.

01:00:01.480 And they sentenced him to 25 years.

01:00:03.620 That's extraordinary.

01:00:04.460 The defense wanted between five and six years.

01:00:07.400 The prosecution said between 30 and 50.

01:00:10.120 That's insane.

01:00:10.420 So he went, you know, the judge went on the heavier end.

01:00:13.140 How much of that will he have to serve?

01:00:15.480 I have to check the federal sentencing guidelines on it because there are factors about, like, I don't think he's committed any prior crimes.

01:00:21.140 But here's the thing.

01:00:23.760 He went in there today to argue that the reason he should get the shorter end is because he's got autism and he's got this condition.

01:00:33.200 I don't – I wrote it down.

01:00:34.560 I don't have it in front of me.

01:00:35.300 But he's got some condition that has a fancy word that does not allow you to feel happiness.

01:00:41.140 Oh.

01:00:41.360 I like –

01:00:42.600 Oh, I have that.

01:00:43.600 It's called being a journalist.

01:00:45.060 What do you mean?

01:00:45.460 Yeah, exactly.

01:00:46.080 It's called being –

01:00:46.580 Irish Italian?

01:00:47.540 Irish.

01:00:48.340 Yes.

01:00:48.880 Thank you, Matt.

01:00:49.420 Irish disease.

01:00:50.280 Yeah.

01:00:50.900 And so this is their way of getting him out of all the glitzy photos with Tom Brady and all of the elite of Hollywood.

01:01:00.440 Like, he wasn't enjoying it.

01:01:02.180 You know, he wasn't enjoying it.

01:01:03.880 So you shouldn't hold it against him.

01:01:06.220 And also they talked about his charitable donations.

01:01:08.960 I'm like, hashtag part of the problem, right?

01:01:11.040 This is all part of the problem.

01:01:12.600 So anyway, the judge didn't buy any of it.

01:01:14.820 But the interesting thing in the case was, much like the undercover piece of the Madoff story, do you know all the investors have been paid back?

01:01:22.640 Yes.

01:01:22.980 No.

01:01:23.500 Yeah.

01:01:24.060 They've been paid back.

01:01:25.120 Is it all of them?

01:01:25.900 I know some had been.

01:01:27.160 Yeah.

01:01:27.280 Forgive me because I haven't fact tested that.

01:01:29.240 But that's what I read.

01:01:30.740 And they're still mad.

01:01:31.900 They're still saying, look, we could have had a greater value if we had had our investment grow as it should.

01:01:36.900 Like, crypto's way up right now.

01:01:37.960 We could be selling.

01:01:38.540 All the benefit of that bargain is gone because, as the judge put it, you stole people's money.

01:01:44.540 And the fact that you won in your bed in Vegas, or at least you broke even, doesn't make it any less of a theft for these people.

01:01:50.140 You know, they could have done what they wanted with their money.

01:01:51.640 They could have earned money on their money.

01:01:53.340 Anyway, I do think it's kind of interesting.

01:01:55.200 And apparently most of the Madoff victims have been paid back to an undercover.

01:01:59.720 In fact, it doesn't make it any better, but it's sort of they get their money back.

01:02:03.380 And this guy's going to jail for 25 years, which I'm fine with.

01:02:07.120 It seems a bit long to me.

01:02:08.480 It's a lot of time.

01:02:08.940 You know, 25 years.

01:02:10.380 But the thing about this at the time is just kind of less of a intellectual point about cryptocurrency.

01:02:17.440 But it was it was a weird gold rush in getting involved in that.

01:02:21.260 Everybody knew this was something that wasn't tightly regulated.

01:02:25.280 I mean, in some cases wasn't regulated at all.

01:02:27.400 I mean, there were pump and dump schemes every day during that wild ride.

01:02:31.420 And hedonia and and A-N-H-E-D-O-N-I-A.

01:02:36.460 Right.

01:02:36.740 That's the unhappiness.

01:02:37.860 And happy.

01:02:38.320 So keep going.

01:02:38.920 Keep going.

01:02:39.340 Well, I'm going to have to write that one down.

01:02:41.760 What are my new afflictions?

01:02:42.900 I'm so unhappy that I can't even remember it.

01:02:45.180 But no, this was like he committed like a very, very, very bad, particularly when he's

01:02:51.380 taking money, shifting it somewhere else and using that.

01:02:54.080 And the investors are not aware of it.

01:02:55.780 But the one thing that gives me pause about it is that when I was doing that, investing

01:03:01.980 in cryptocurrency, I understood that the next day it was all going to be gone.

01:03:05.300 Probably it's not going to be the case if you're doing it in Wall Street, you might lose

01:03:09.680 a lot of money, but it's not going to go poof.

01:03:11.980 I mean, sometimes things get delisted, but it's usually a long slide until they'll delist

01:03:17.420 you from the stock exchange.

01:03:18.800 But this was like a total I mean, it looked like a scam from the beginning.

01:03:22.680 And I was my first response was, and again, this is not to mitigate all the terrible things

01:03:28.320 that he did, was that didn't you expect this to happen?

01:03:31.360 Because I sort of did.

01:03:33.020 And I ended up taking crypto stuff that I have in putting it in a place where I knew

01:03:37.980 this company was a little more secure and on the level.

01:03:41.320 I'm really holding myself back from another rectum joke.

01:03:45.080 Please make it because it's the best part of my day when somebody makes a rectum joke.

01:03:51.360 Are we going to talk about Diddy?

01:03:54.320 There are a lot of rectum jokes in that, too.

01:03:56.620 Oh, yeah.

01:03:57.720 Well, does anybody else want to say anything about SBF in 25 years?

01:04:00.720 I mean, 25 years feels like a lot.

01:04:03.020 Clearly trying to send a message here.

01:04:05.480 I'm still like sort of dazzled by Michael Moynihan's cryptocurrency analysis.

01:04:11.000 I can tell you I work in SF.

01:04:13.860 I know a lot of people in the Bay Area.

01:04:15.400 I can tell you that a number of people, including Elon Musk, for example, has talked about this

01:04:19.900 publicly, like smelt fraud on Sam Bankroom Freed.

01:04:23.760 So hopefully people have learned their lesson from this.

01:04:26.820 But I just I don't even know.

01:04:28.400 I don't even know that we've seen a serious kind of regulatory push with respect to crypto

01:04:32.800 that is obviously going to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen again.

01:04:36.460 No, we haven't.

01:04:36.960 I mean, New York is pretty tough.

01:04:38.740 Not a sober one.

01:04:39.420 So on on the subject of putting things inside of your body.

01:04:44.200 Yes.

01:04:44.820 Yeah.

01:04:45.960 Again, my favorite subject.

01:04:47.860 Is there a disorder for that?

01:04:50.700 We were talking now about Vanderbilt.

01:04:53.420 Oh, yes.

01:04:55.500 You saw the story.

01:04:57.120 Yes.

01:04:57.840 Yes.

01:04:58.220 I didn't know this was a thing.

01:04:59.520 It's a thing.

01:05:00.420 I didn't know.

01:05:00.960 He's too young.

01:05:01.680 He doesn't remember the 80s.

01:05:02.700 It's my privilege.

01:05:03.880 It's not a thing for eight hours.

01:05:05.800 No, it's not.

01:05:06.520 I mean, if having a tampon in for several hours at a time caused death, we'd all be in

01:05:10.900 the hospital.

01:05:11.500 I mean, it's absurd.

01:05:12.580 Not all of us.

01:05:14.240 In fairness.

01:05:15.660 I didn't see this morning a conversation about insulin with Fat Joe or a conversation about

01:05:21.480 tampons with you.

01:05:22.260 They don't have that context.

01:05:23.100 Yeah.

01:05:23.600 All right.

01:05:23.840 I got to get the audience up to speed.

01:05:25.220 We talked about it yesterday.

01:05:25.860 So I think the audience knows.

01:05:26.900 But just a quick primer.

01:05:28.840 Yesterday, a bunch of students went on the campus of Vanderbilt and it was a very great

01:05:32.820 school and used to be and went down there and did a sit in.

01:05:36.520 At the chancellor's office because he wouldn't allow a vote on the BDS movement.

01:05:40.880 We're trying to divest from Israel.

01:05:43.960 They want their pro-Palestinian.

01:05:45.760 And he wouldn't allow a vote.

01:05:46.940 So they did a sit in.

01:05:48.020 And they were very upset that they weren't allowed to just do it on their terms for as

01:05:53.240 long as they want and say whatever they want.

01:05:55.080 And like if they got up, they weren't going to be let back into the room.

01:05:57.340 So they didn't feel that they could get up and leave.

01:05:58.940 And they were worried about getting arrested.

01:06:00.360 It's kind of part of violating the rules.

01:06:02.020 You know, if you like you got to kind of be ready to take the arrest.

01:06:04.820 Maybe some consequences.

01:06:06.000 In any event, one of the big moments was when they called 911 because one of the protesters

01:06:11.520 allegedly had a tampon in and was claiming if she didn't change it, she was going to get

01:06:17.260 toxic shock.

01:06:18.700 Yes.

01:06:19.000 And here's that 911 call for people who missed it.

01:06:23.460 Toxic shock.

01:06:24.400 Yeah, there's a currently a female student who has been in for multiple hours, which leads

01:06:31.260 to an increased risk of toxic shock syndrome.

01:06:33.900 She's like, we need to look at her.

01:06:35.240 I understand.

01:06:36.620 Right.

01:06:36.980 So then you should understand.

01:06:38.580 Okay, what you are not hearing, what you're not hearing is that if she stands up to use

01:06:44.760 the restroom to change her tampon, they are threatening arrest.

01:06:47.500 So it is not an option for her.

01:06:49.760 Ma'am, do you have an emergency?

01:06:51.760 Yes, ma'am.

01:06:53.920 Do you have an emergency?

01:06:56.000 Not to find this in five.

01:06:57.400 Do you have an emergency?

01:06:58.640 That is my emergency.

01:06:59.940 Yeah, I don't remember the time that I needed to have an emergency personally to call 911

01:07:04.180 I don't remember the time.

01:07:05.640 Okay, so snap, snap.

01:07:08.260 I love it.

01:07:08.820 The right, the right to change her tampon.

01:07:11.040 It's right after speech and religion.

01:07:13.500 You might have missed it when you read.

01:07:16.060 These Republicans, man.

01:07:17.260 So she got up, she got out, and the tampon was changed.

01:07:23.300 And reportedly, it was changed in front of others.

01:07:26.620 No, no, what?

01:07:28.000 She lived.

01:07:29.120 Oh, wow.

01:07:30.120 Misinformation.

01:07:31.180 Reportedly, it was like one of those things where like the guys pee in the,

01:07:34.180 you know, empty bottle.

01:07:36.100 She kind of took care.

01:07:37.100 I don't know whether that's true or not, but I did read that, that she took care of business.

01:07:40.560 She did not die.

01:07:41.560 There was no toxic shock.

01:07:42.860 But there is an embarrassment to a generation.

01:07:45.340 It is very odd, like the entitlement of these kids, like sitting there watching them on the

01:07:49.600 phone with more context.

01:07:52.220 Like I just saw the footage of them forcing their way into the building.

01:07:55.340 Oh, yeah.

01:07:55.980 Like shoving past the security guard.

01:07:57.660 Yeah.

01:07:57.860 Who is trying to hold them back.

01:07:59.760 And I mean, they are literally forcing their way into the building.

01:08:02.980 It's very Washington State, you know, or Evergreen.

01:08:06.460 Evergreen.

01:08:06.980 I mean, just a really, really bad look.

01:08:09.580 Audience.

01:08:09.980 Look at this guy.

01:08:10.480 He's trying to close the door so they can't get in and bother the chancellor and everybody

01:08:13.580 else.

01:08:14.300 I mean, the kid is throwing himself bodily into this man at the door.

01:08:18.300 Like you could cause him serious injury.

01:08:19.820 This is terrible.

01:08:20.360 These are not peaceful protests once you do that.

01:08:22.220 Why do we blur them?

01:08:23.240 Are we not sure whether they're minors?

01:08:25.200 I'm not sure.

01:08:25.520 No, the one that I saw was blurred too.

01:08:27.680 Okay, so it's, oh, it was blurred.

01:08:29.540 Okay, it wasn't us.

01:08:30.140 Yeah, I don't know why they blur it.

01:08:31.660 Yes, it's a source.

01:08:32.260 They don't have the right to be blurred.

01:08:33.800 No.

01:08:33.960 Shut your faces.

01:08:34.860 Let's see them.

01:08:35.560 They've posted all over TikTok.

01:08:37.100 The school must have released this footage.

01:08:38.880 I think they probably did.

01:08:40.580 Yeah, I mean, I was at Evergreen the day, two days after that happened, filming a piece

01:08:46.180 there.

01:08:46.480 And it was remarkable.

01:08:48.120 I mean, there were gangs of people, and I'm not joking about this, you can go look this

01:08:52.340 up, of people, the weakest looking human beings, like physically weak looking human

01:08:56.260 beings, roving the camps with baseball bats to enforce their vision of the world.

01:09:01.280 This kind of Maoist idea that if you're not with us, we're going to, I don't know, baseball

01:09:05.280 bat you.

01:09:05.600 They didn't end up doing that because they couldn't lift them.

01:09:07.860 I can't imagine.

01:09:09.240 The swings on those guys.

01:09:10.160 I walked into, this is true, so this is the language policing of these people.

01:09:14.760 This kind of, like, it's so bizarre.

01:09:16.780 So I was talking to these young people, and I told them, or interviewed, a very difficult

01:09:22.220 interview to do because they're all very hostile.

01:09:24.060 And I said, if you guys want to break off the interview, you want to stop, just tell

01:09:27.220 me.

01:09:27.680 And they went and had a little conclave and came back, and they said, we, this is a

01:09:31.180 true story, said, we would appreciate if you didn't use you guys to us.

01:09:36.180 And I, and she said, can you use y'all?

01:09:41.960 And I said, and I'm not, my producer can absolutely attest to this happening.

01:09:45.600 I said, and this was the biggest fail of a joke of all time.

01:09:49.280 I thought it was great, but it was like, it died.

01:09:51.300 I said, well, ma'am, I don't want to appropriate Southern culture, which isn't mine.

01:09:56.040 But I said, y'all, and they looked at me like, if this was the cultural revolution, I would

01:10:00.560 have been shot on the spot.

01:10:01.620 But these, the madness that had overtaken these people in that example, it reminded

01:10:08.060 me of the guy who was the president of Evergreen, who they wouldn't let go to the bathroom.

01:10:12.420 Do you remember this?

01:10:13.000 Yeah.

01:10:13.240 There's video of this.

01:10:14.060 And they said, no, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom.

01:10:16.160 And he said, okay.

01:10:17.540 And he's asking them, may I please leave my office?

01:10:20.340 And they say, no, in this woman, the madness of these people that calling 911, because

01:10:25.640 if I leave, I will get arrested for the crime I actually committed, which is trespassing.

01:10:30.200 And that they wanted a guarantee that it wouldn't happen.

01:10:31.980 No, I'm not going to give you that guarantee.

01:10:33.000 It's just some random guy.

01:10:34.220 And he was like, I can't, no.

01:10:35.340 Who are you?

01:10:35.900 No, I can't.

01:10:36.540 You're breaking the law.

01:10:37.360 How's your tampon?

01:10:37.980 Yeah.

01:10:38.120 No, we should pull, you guys, see if we can pull that clip of the girl who was like stuttering

01:10:43.960 and delivering her mandated mea culpa on Evergreen Campus, talking to my producers here.

01:10:49.040 They know what I'm talking about.

01:10:50.080 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:50.500 It's truly like, it's one of the first clips I played when I launched the show.

01:10:53.620 As soon as we added Brett Weinstein on, we played that clip.

01:10:56.320 It's always stayed with me, how they humiliated one of the dissenters.

01:11:01.060 And it was a black student who was kind of like, are we doing what's right?

01:11:04.740 I feel kind of uncomfortable about like harassing a professor just because he didn't think we

01:11:09.960 should divide each other by race and mandate that the whites stay off campus so that, you

01:11:13.260 know, it's like this whole racial protest.

01:11:14.800 Michael's Vice News piece on that changed my mind about the importance of campus culture

01:11:24.740 kind of wars.

01:11:25.520 Up till that moment, I was like, maybe it's overblown.

01:11:28.360 You know, Ben Shapiro's out there like talking about this so much.

01:11:31.600 He's being opportunistic and stuff.

01:11:32.900 But seeing particularly the Maoist stuff and seeing the and seeing the the chancellor

01:11:38.060 of the university, like saying things that, you know, that he knows is not true.

01:11:43.100 And because he's desperately trying to keep his job, it said to me, oh, there's something

01:11:47.340 has changed.

01:11:48.200 People are afraid of the proletariats.

01:11:51.140 One of the most amazing things, and we didn't get this into this piece, but if you follow

01:11:54.660 me on Instagram, I think I posted it there.

01:11:56.400 Some of the outtakes when I was interviewing George Bridges was his name.

01:11:59.500 Um, you'd seen how the language policing had taken over people's brains.

01:12:03.280 And I said to him, you know, here's a scenario.

01:12:06.140 And I said, just war game this with me.

01:12:08.040 And he stopped and he said, well, I wouldn't use that word.

01:12:10.620 Oh, my God.

01:12:11.040 And I said, well, why?

01:12:12.140 What that's what we would do.

01:12:13.520 And he gave a babbling answer.

01:12:15.100 And then he did this again.

01:12:16.320 And when I said, and this one I cannot figure out, I said, rope-a-dope.

01:12:20.780 And I was like, you're taking these punches, like Muhammad Ali, you're rope-a-doping.

01:12:23.540 And he's like, well, I wouldn't use that word.

01:12:25.800 And I was like, rope, like lynching.

01:12:28.020 I don't know.

01:12:29.000 But this is, you can see this.

01:12:30.100 I have this footage up on my Instagram.

01:12:31.880 He was so, like, overwhelmed with fear that you would constantly step on a landmine in a

01:12:38.020 conversation.

01:12:38.460 He kept on stopping me, saying, I want people to know that I am not using that language,

01:12:42.900 which was not offensive, was not egregious.

01:12:44.880 It was boring, everyday language.

01:12:46.480 But he had been a creature of fear.

01:12:48.720 He'd been overwhelmed by this fear.

01:12:50.400 They'd taken over his office.

01:12:51.540 And he was like, yes, you're right.

01:12:53.160 And that is the Maoist comparison in the sense that they would kill you.

01:12:56.660 But this idea that there isn't a debate.

01:12:59.340 You don't debate these people.

01:13:00.700 They have the truth on their side.

01:13:02.360 And you either adhere to that or you're run out of town.

01:13:05.740 We're back to MSNBC again.

01:13:06.780 Exactly.

01:13:07.060 This is one truth.

01:13:07.980 We found the clip.

01:13:08.940 So this young black student had spoken up, saying, I don't think what we're doing is

01:13:14.280 right.

01:13:14.500 And just as a quick primer, the problem was at Evergreen College, they used to once a year

01:13:20.800 do a sick out.

01:13:22.040 The black students would go.

01:13:22.900 The day of absence.

01:13:23.520 Yeah, right.

01:13:24.300 And where they would sort of leave campus to show the other students what life would be

01:13:27.640 like without any of the students of color.

01:13:29.640 And this one year, they said, you know what?

01:13:31.120 We're done doing that.

01:13:32.240 This year, the whites should stay home.

01:13:33.940 And we mandate that they do so.

01:13:35.660 And Brett Weinstein, who was then a professor, said, that's kind of different.

01:13:39.180 It's not the same like people voluntarily doing it versus one race telling another race

01:13:43.540 of students you have to stay home.

01:13:44.760 And that led to Brett Weinstein getting protested, getting his life threatened and ultimately

01:13:49.860 losing his job.

01:13:51.020 Well, there was a black female student on campus who was like, I'm kind of on his side.

01:13:55.600 I think we're being.

01:13:56.160 And she was made to apologize in this exchange, which is just so disturbing.

01:14:02.440 It stayed with me.

01:14:03.480 Here's what they did to her.

01:14:04.280 Speaking of Mao.

01:14:04.900 Has demonstrated anti-blackness in the religion-holding, charging, and sensing of two black, trans, disabled

01:14:21.220 students based on false, racially charged allegations.

01:14:29.260 Sorry.

01:14:30.560 Whoa.

01:14:31.640 This poor girl.

01:14:32.700 Yeah.

01:14:32.980 I've never seen that before.

01:14:35.040 You know, I just watched Three Body Problem on Netflix, which I tried to read the book.

01:14:39.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:40.320 But there's a scene in there, like a depiction of the cultural revolution at the very beginning

01:14:45.300 of the show.

01:14:46.800 And it is visceral.

01:14:49.220 It is incredibly hard to watch.

01:14:50.840 There is a woman who's brought out on stage to condemn her husband, who is about to be,

01:14:56.560 unbeknownst to the audience or the reader, who's about to be stoned to death, essentially.

01:15:01.040 He's going to be stomped to death by these people who are holding him captive.

01:15:04.720 He is about to lose everything.

01:15:06.320 And his wife condemns him while his daughter is watching from the audience.

01:15:11.420 These are not identical circumstances by any stretch of the imagination.

01:15:14.940 But the mechanics are the same.

01:15:17.560 The particular ideas, this is actually why I have a problem with the word wokeness, because

01:15:22.120 it focuses you on the wrong thing, in my estimation.

01:15:24.820 Like, the particular ideas are bad, and I want to fight and argue about those ideas.

01:15:28.520 But what I am most aggrieved by is the fact that so many people have abandoned, like, civility,

01:15:35.120 that they don't care about civil liberties anymore, this idea of a culture of free expression,

01:15:40.100 where people have differences of opinion, and we can have a conversation about that.

01:15:44.100 Like, they've abandoned all of that in service of a totalitarian impulse to forcefully impose

01:15:50.740 their views on you, to condemn any sort of dissension in the ranks.

01:15:55.060 Even an appeal for a reasonable conversation is somehow incredibly suspect.

01:16:00.120 It is so dangerous.

01:16:02.380 And people don't appreciate that.

01:16:04.360 And I do think there is a real risk if we're paying too much attention to the particular

01:16:09.360 bad ideas that are being articulated, and not really appreciating the degree to which

01:16:13.980 the mechanisms are actually the most dangerous part of what's going on here.

01:16:18.000 The loose side of the fact that that could happen on the right.

01:16:20.240 There's a version of that, that right-wing people could embrace, a kind of ideological

01:16:23.880 fundamentalism, where the most important thing is that we win and they lose.

01:16:27.780 It's how, I think, many conservatives who have traditionally been right on these issues

01:16:33.460 have become suspicious of the First Amendment in certain respects, are interested in censorship

01:16:38.260 as a remedy to those bad ideas.

01:16:40.920 Those people are wrong.

01:16:42.600 They do not appreciate what they're putting at risk by endorsing those policies.

01:16:46.740 And also, this needs to be said, I think, more often than it is in centrist or right-of-center

01:16:52.220 circles, there are so many Republican politicians, conservative people in the public eye who are

01:17:00.140 saying things that have something to do with Donald Trump that you know they don't believe.

01:17:05.120 Oh, yeah.

01:17:05.560 That's cowardly.

01:17:06.460 You see that, too?

01:17:06.920 That's cowardly.

01:17:07.720 Absolutely.

01:17:08.000 Like, I wince right now, anytime someone I know and have a positive feeling towards who

01:17:12.880 works in politics and is a Republican is staying in their job or competing for a job or running

01:17:18.880 for office, I wince because I don't want to inevitably lose respect for them, and I'm

01:17:23.680 going to, almost in every case.

01:17:26.000 There's one or two exceptions I can think of because they're compromising themselves in

01:17:29.900 the name of doing that.

01:17:30.660 And it's so painful to watch.

01:17:33.280 Actual courage, something Moynihan points out a ton, and this is true when you look at

01:17:37.840 communist countries now and especially before, actual courage.

01:17:41.960 People are willing to face the consequences of saying what they actually believe and not have

01:17:48.100 to read.

01:17:48.560 My God, that thing is just horrible.

01:17:49.980 She's like, she's tripping on the words.

01:17:52.280 It's so rare.

01:17:53.140 It is actually rare to say what you believe.

01:17:55.160 And it is something that is worth honoring, not overly valorizing if you're just saying

01:17:59.420 it to get to a new audience to love you in a way and then changing your views in order

01:18:03.680 to get there, which a lot of the never Trump people, I think, have done politically.

01:18:07.100 And the Rona McDaniel thing is that this, you know, Casablanca, like shock, shock that

01:18:14.160 somebody would say something in defense of her boss in politics.

01:18:19.000 I mean, that's what Jen Psaki does.

01:18:20.680 That's what Karine Jean-Pierre does.

01:18:22.140 I mean, I don't know if she believes any of that stuff.

01:18:23.580 Her job is to spin and lie.

01:18:25.180 That's what you do.

01:18:26.400 That's what politics is about.

01:18:27.600 And like, she's saying this thing about January 6th.

01:18:29.900 It's like, yeah, that's her job.

01:18:31.460 Right.

01:18:31.660 And I don't think that's a good thing.

01:18:33.060 But I know that it is a thing.

01:18:34.760 And that's what happens in politics.

01:18:37.060 And all these people expressing this shock.

01:18:38.580 And, you know, bravery in these situations is incredibly rare on the Evergreen campus.

01:18:43.740 To get back to that, the number of both students and I believe I may even talk to her, the students

01:18:49.660 and faculty who said to me, I cannot go on camera and say I disagree with this mob.

01:18:56.820 Oh, hell no.

01:18:57.260 They're not even affirmatively stating an ideological position.

01:19:00.720 They just would have been saying, hey, running people off campus because they disagree with

01:19:05.160 you is a bad thing on a campus.

01:19:07.440 I mean, this is supposed to be the crucible of learning.

01:19:09.680 They would have gotten the same treatment as that young woman.

01:19:11.800 Yes.

01:19:12.140 She could barely get it out.

01:19:13.240 She didn't even know the words she was reading.

01:19:14.700 Most people, and I don't blame them for this, don't want to walk into a situation like that,

01:19:19.760 be tagged forever, have to be humiliated by their peers in public.

01:19:23.480 That takes a lot.

01:19:24.400 That takes a lot.

01:19:25.060 That's why.

01:19:25.800 And again, to Matt's point, it's why this type of heroism is so rare.

01:19:30.660 That's why there's only one Solzhenitsyn or two Solzhenitsyns or Sakharov, these people

01:19:34.640 in the Soviet Union.

01:19:35.560 It's just why bother?

01:19:36.900 It's just going to cause me an enormous amount of harm.

01:19:40.640 So the people that do that are rare.

01:19:43.020 And on this campus, what people need is an assurance that they can survive, right?

01:19:49.560 When I got an assurance that we could have an audience of our own, I started being a

01:19:54.680 little more open about the things that I believed when I was working in journalism.

01:19:57.600 Not to a point where I was being ideological, but if I was in a meeting or something, I was

01:20:01.300 with people, you'd be more open about what you believe.

01:20:03.820 Otherwise, you're like, you know, I don't want to rock the boat.

01:20:06.420 And if I get fired from here, you know, where am I going to get hired unless I go to somewhere

01:20:10.280 super ideological?

01:20:11.280 But when you can do it on your own, people start being a lot more honest about things

01:20:16.840 because you're not reliant upon.

01:20:19.080 You're a great example of this, too.

01:20:20.440 I mean, this your podcast came to Sirius.

01:20:23.160 It didn't start at Sirius, right?

01:20:24.520 I mean, this was a thing that was an organic thing.

01:20:26.600 And you had an audience and you cultivated that audience.

01:20:29.080 NBC, Fox doesn't make a difference.

01:20:30.560 They can go, screw it.

01:20:31.580 I mean, you did this.

01:20:32.840 That we can do that now allows much for your conversation.

01:20:36.180 And I'm seeing that for your conversation.

01:20:37.980 And it's been an unbelievable boon to us and to our careers.

01:20:41.880 But I worry about people like these, you know, kids, maybe the dissenters.

01:20:45.580 I mean, who knows?

01:20:46.000 Maybe there were some dissenters in that room.

01:20:47.520 Maybe, you know, a girl who called and complained about toxic shock.

01:20:50.780 Probably not her.

01:20:51.480 But maybe the person to her left or right.

01:20:54.280 Because, all right, so I launched this show when I was already known, right?

01:20:57.960 People knew who I was.

01:20:58.860 So I had a running start in trying to reconnect with an audience.

01:21:02.260 And you guys have been well-known.

01:21:03.260 You've been all over the news for years and, you know, intellectuals.

01:21:07.300 I knew Matt back in my Fox days as a Reason Magazine guy.

01:21:10.840 So these kids, they don't have, nobody knows them.

01:21:14.460 They don't have one, quote, fan.

01:21:17.020 They don't have a connection with it.

01:21:18.180 Now, yes, you could build it brick by brick.

01:21:19.740 But there's a lot more risk to them in saying no.

01:21:24.320 And we played this clip yesterday, too, but I'll play it again.

01:21:26.700 But it shows.

01:21:28.100 It's another example of exactly what we're talking about, where they shouted down the cop.

01:21:32.000 The paid cop who's not probably a graduate of Vanderbilt and probably isn't going to get exactly the same financial advantages as these snot-nosed kids are.

01:21:42.900 And what was their objection to this one cop?

01:21:46.000 And we saw how they treated the one security guard already, right?

01:21:48.620 Like, completely disrespectfully.

01:21:49.960 No care for his fear on, like, January 6th, right?

01:21:54.100 Weren't we shown that one cop over and over who tried to stop the mob?

01:21:57.540 Here, it's not a problem.

01:21:59.260 But try to humiliate him for just doing his job.

01:22:01.660 Here it is.

01:22:02.260 I hope you know that.

01:22:05.260 You're protecting a terrible man.

01:22:07.900 And a coward.

01:22:09.000 Absolute coward.

01:22:10.100 Who is aiding and abetting an actual genocide.

01:22:13.280 Show your morality.

01:22:14.620 What if it was your kids?

01:22:16.140 Would you care?

01:22:17.140 It will be your kids.

01:22:18.400 It will be our kids.

01:22:19.880 It will be your kids?

01:22:21.860 Is a job worth it, sir?

01:22:23.800 Is a job worth it?

01:22:25.780 And you're flat, Thor.

01:22:27.200 We're already dealing with it.

01:22:28.680 32,000 dead, and you don't care.

01:22:32.040 You can stand with us right now and be on the right side of history.

01:22:34.900 But you won't.

01:22:36.100 Shame.

01:22:36.640 Shame on you.

01:22:37.680 Shame on you.

01:22:38.580 Shame.

01:22:39.420 Shame.

01:22:39.580 Shame.

01:22:40.080 Shame.

01:22:40.940 Shame.

01:22:41.420 Shame, man.

01:22:42.540 You are black in America, and you're not standing with the marginalized people of the world.

01:22:47.240 What does that make you?

01:22:48.740 What does that make you?

01:22:49.900 A coward.

01:22:50.760 Coward.

01:22:52.040 Shame.

01:22:52.660 Shame.

01:22:53.580 Free, free Palestine.

01:22:54.960 Free, free Palestine.

01:22:57.560 Remarkable.

01:22:58.200 It's like, kid, I'm a security guard at the university.

01:23:01.820 I'm like, what?

01:23:02.460 Yeah.

01:23:03.140 You're on the wrong side of history.

01:23:04.600 It's like, I'm in the middle of Tennessee, like working on a college campus.

01:23:07.580 What are you talking about?

01:23:08.300 What do you want me to do?

01:23:09.080 That is what universities create.

01:23:13.360 I'm sorry to say.

01:23:14.120 I don't want to feel like I'm overstating it.

01:23:15.780 But that is a level of fanaticism that, you know, is alien to most Americans.

01:23:20.540 I mean, that was what you saw on Evergreen's campus.

01:23:22.740 It's not a coincidence that this keeps happening on campuses.

01:23:26.200 Like if a disease is like under the power lines, you start saying, hey, what's going

01:23:29.860 on here?

01:23:30.580 Like this is happening at all these campuses, these protests that people then believe that

01:23:36.060 they're in, you know, the university exists to serve them.

01:23:39.080 They pay to go there.

01:23:40.140 Right.

01:23:40.580 They seem to forget that.

01:23:41.520 They're like unionizing and all this stuff, but that everybody should have a political

01:23:45.300 position on something that's happening in the Middle East.

01:23:47.600 Why did they have a position on the war in Syria?

01:23:51.040 Did they have a position or a takeover of the invasion of Ukraine?

01:23:54.060 Why this one?

01:23:55.220 And why should everybody have an opinion?

01:23:57.320 I mean, that is just the marker, base marker of ideological fanaticism.

01:24:02.380 When you're like, you have to have a position.

01:24:04.260 And if you don't, if you don't agree with me, you're abetting the death of children.

01:24:07.700 I mean, the manipulation, it's a dumb manipulation.

01:24:10.480 Think about what would have happened to that cop if he actually had done what they wanted

01:24:13.420 and sat down and gave up order.

01:24:14.940 He'd be fired.

01:24:15.840 Think they'd be helping them?

01:24:16.780 Think their parents would be cutting him a check?

01:24:18.640 No, there's $70,000 a year or whatever.

01:24:20.240 I love the idea that students at Vanderbilt University are the arbiter of what is and

01:24:26.080 is not a marginalized community.

01:24:27.640 At least they feel bad about it, man.

01:24:29.360 At least they feel bad about it.

01:24:30.400 What does that make you, sir?

01:24:32.060 A cop!

01:24:33.620 Is there any reasonable argument to support the assertion that whatever it is that they're

01:24:40.040 suggesting is happening, that it is coming for his children?

01:24:43.420 What on earth are they talking about?

01:24:44.780 I mean, that, again, I think that's the mark of fanaticism.

01:24:48.780 When you can't win that argument, right?

01:24:51.580 When you're constantly saying that this is what's happening and it's just a totally fanciful

01:24:55.420 thing, you have to kind of personalize it for people and say, it's coming for you.

01:24:59.140 It's going to happen to you.

01:25:00.860 It's like, we're literally talking about Gaza, right?

01:25:03.840 Right, right.

01:25:04.280 We're in Tennessee.

01:25:05.740 I don't have a map.

01:25:07.180 I'm just a lonely cop, guys.

01:25:09.140 But I think it's pretty far away.

01:25:11.280 It will ultimately come for you.

01:25:13.500 That is a lunatic statement, obviously.

01:25:16.720 But yeah, that's the stuff you sort of hear.

01:25:19.300 It's so untethered from reality, all of it.

01:25:21.500 Not to be totally an old crusty dude, but like, what kind of manhood is that?

01:25:25.700 Like, you are a...

01:25:27.240 Thank you.

01:25:28.160 You're a person.

01:25:29.260 You're a penis haver.

01:25:30.520 And you're sitting there in your university and you're going, sir!

01:25:33.840 Yeah.

01:25:34.520 Sir!

01:25:35.320 Are you going to stand there?

01:25:36.980 Your voice is cracking.

01:25:38.440 Thank you, Matt.

01:25:39.060 You're assuming a lot about that penis haver.

01:25:40.600 This was the point.

01:25:41.660 This is the theme of the show.

01:25:42.560 This is the point I made yesterday.

01:25:43.620 I was like, I'm very worried about who the young college co-eds are going to sleep with.

01:25:47.500 Where are the sex partners?

01:25:50.460 Michael Moynihan is raising his hand.

01:25:52.420 He is willing, standing up for America, prepared to be drafted into service.

01:25:56.980 Yeah, I mean, if you want a resume, I have one in the car.

01:26:00.340 I'm sorry, but none of those men could perform.

01:26:03.400 It's not going to happen.

01:26:04.820 And also, I love...

01:26:07.040 Yes, it's performative, for sure.

01:26:08.320 But you can tell, like, the little tells, because, like, the one girl's, like, she's

01:26:12.100 waiting to yell her outrage thing, like, it's coming for you!

01:26:15.980 She's waiting.

01:26:16.940 Is it time?

01:26:17.600 Should I get in now?

01:26:18.540 Right?

01:26:18.740 In the fuller clip, they start singing a song that they've made up, and it sounds like one

01:26:24.360 of those, like, local couch commercials.

01:26:26.240 It's like, 1-800.

01:26:27.820 It's like this weird song about Gaza.

01:26:30.360 And it's like, did they just make this up?

01:26:32.080 Leave off the last desk for saving.

01:26:34.360 It's exactly that.

01:26:35.440 And go find it.

01:26:37.380 You'll find it.

01:26:37.940 You'll know what I'm talking about.

01:26:38.860 But yeah, it's 7-7 cash now.

01:26:40.540 Okay.

01:26:40.920 All right.

01:26:41.480 Quick pause, and we'll be right back with more with the guys from The Fifth Column.

01:26:46.220 What a show.

01:26:47.420 Don't go away.

01:26:48.440 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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01:27:46.320 Have you seen this TikTok thing where this guy's running around, maybe more than this

01:27:56.240 guy, it appears it's more than just this one guy, just randomly punching women in our

01:28:01.180 very safe city that we have nothing to worry about in, where crime has totally gone away.

01:28:05.960 There's a TikToker.

01:28:07.040 She's not the only one, but she actually documented it and put it on cam.

01:28:10.360 Her name is Hallie Kate McGookin.

01:28:12.540 And she posted this shortly after she'd been attacked.

01:28:15.820 Look at this.

01:28:17.940 You guys, I was literally just walking and a man came up and punched me in the face.

01:28:22.980 Oh my God.

01:28:23.980 It hurts so bad.

01:28:25.100 I can't even talk.

01:28:26.600 Literally, I fell to the ground and now this giant gusseg is forming and I'm like, oh my

01:28:32.220 God.

01:28:32.640 It's so crazy.

01:28:34.340 Oh, that poor girl.

01:28:37.460 They have made an arrest.

01:28:39.420 Many women then started sharing saying, it happened to me too.

01:28:42.640 Just walking down the street and they get attacked by somebody, punched.

01:28:47.180 She got it obviously in the front.

01:28:48.880 A couple of other have said they got attacked from behind, so they had no chance to respond

01:28:52.800 or protect themselves.

01:28:53.800 They didn't see it coming.

01:28:54.460 They made an arrest of this one guy, his Shabuki Stora.

01:29:01.880 And on his existing TikTok, he's posted these videos of him, Instagram, of him harassing

01:29:09.000 law enforcement and city workers.

01:29:10.820 Look at this.

01:29:12.860 Who's your daddy?

01:29:14.440 Who's your daddy?

01:29:16.300 Who's your daddy?

01:29:18.000 What's his name?

01:29:19.380 Satan.

01:29:20.640 No.

01:29:21.020 Satan.

01:29:21.460 That's good for you, man.

01:29:24.380 You finally harassing a white person, man.

01:29:26.200 Good job, man.

01:29:26.960 You're going to press charge on him?

01:29:28.200 He just put his hands on me.

01:29:29.880 He just put this white piece of shit just put his hands on me.

01:29:32.800 Yeah, you're not going to press charges?

01:29:34.600 You're not going to?

01:29:35.480 I'm not hurt?

01:29:36.860 And I'm telling you, all your faggots, man.

01:29:39.020 Let me see that badge.

01:29:40.160 Let me see that badge, man.

01:29:42.240 I'm Skabuki, Marcus Garvey grandson.

01:29:44.680 You're a white piece of shit, look.

01:29:46.420 And got a black partner, dog.

01:29:48.220 Look at this, man.

01:29:48.760 I'm running for office, man.

01:29:49.880 Man, but none of this shit, man.

01:29:51.700 I'm running for office, man.

01:29:53.060 But none of this, man.

01:29:54.020 I want you to mace me.

01:29:55.440 I want you to mace me.

01:29:57.180 Use your power to mace me.

01:29:59.880 So good luck on your subway ride home.

01:30:01.860 I think you'll be fine.

01:30:03.160 She'd be the chief of police, that woman.

01:30:04.980 Bye.

01:30:06.260 She laughs at his face.

01:30:08.880 Kabuki.

01:30:09.840 She's another day in New York.

01:30:11.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:30:12.040 Right?

01:30:12.320 My God.

01:30:13.220 Yeah.

01:30:13.820 No, I mean, it's not surprising that a person like that

01:30:16.080 is randomly punching white women

01:30:18.420 when he's, like, expressing, like, just rank racist ideas.

01:30:22.440 I would say, like, white piece of shit

01:30:24.080 is probably even telling you something about this guy.

01:30:26.860 It's a little sketchy.

01:30:27.680 Okay.

01:30:28.020 So I just had to get that in because I, you know,

01:30:30.060 I needed to discuss it earlier and I forgot to.

01:30:33.060 Okay, speaking of criminal trouble,

01:30:36.080 should we talk about Sean Diddy Combs?

01:30:39.180 He's in a whole host of trouble.

01:30:46.080 Can't stop, won't stop.

01:30:46.840 Yeah.

01:30:47.200 What?

01:30:47.640 You're a lawyer.

01:30:48.760 You play one on TV.

01:30:49.740 Why the Department of Homeland Security?

01:30:53.060 Because sex trafficking.

01:30:54.120 Yeah.

01:30:54.500 For sure they expect, they suspect actual sex trafficking.

01:30:57.580 So, but isn't, and this is something we've been talking about,

01:30:59.660 isn't, and I'm not to turn the tables and interview you,

01:31:03.080 but isn't sex trafficking often kind of a, like, a BS category?

01:31:06.520 Like, when I think of sex trafficking, I think of, you know,

01:31:10.160 like, massive prostitution rings of, you know, Russians and poor people.

01:31:14.080 That is just your poor education.

01:31:15.500 Yeah, well, no, I know.

01:31:16.240 I mean, this entire show shows my poor education.

01:31:18.760 I actually did a few shows on this back at NBC

01:31:22.400 and they were very interesting, very educational for me.

01:31:26.820 What happens a lot of the times is a young woman meets a young man.

01:31:31.680 He says, let's go out on a date.

01:31:33.560 She meets him on a date.

01:31:35.320 This actually happened to one woman who told me her story.

01:31:38.020 And he says, I'm taking you to the hotel and you're going to sleep with this guy

01:31:41.000 and you're going to give me the money or I'm going to hurt your son.

01:31:43.160 Oh, that.

01:31:43.740 I know you're back.

01:31:44.340 I know you got a two-year-old back at your house.

01:31:46.040 I've got a guy over there.

01:31:47.300 And so you will do it.

01:31:48.740 And they always pick somebody who's not always,

01:31:50.940 but usually more working class who doesn't, you know,

01:31:53.880 they're not going to have some high security guard on speed dial.

01:31:56.600 And before you know it, she's in it because now the threat keeps getting unleashed on her.

01:32:02.020 Or let's say it's somebody who's alienated from her parents.

01:32:05.020 She finds some guys like, move with me.

01:32:07.140 Let's go to Ohio.

01:32:07.960 Okay, we'll be together.

01:32:08.860 As soon as he gets her out to Ohio, he starts pimping her out with the same thing.

01:32:11.900 The threats, he beats her up.

01:32:13.040 She doesn't.

01:32:13.920 Next thing you know, her picture's posted on Backpage.

01:32:16.200 It's like a business.

01:32:17.180 She's miserable.

01:32:17.800 She wants to kill herself.

01:32:19.220 This is how it happens for a lot of women to young girls.

01:32:23.620 One girl, it had happened with her high school teacher who kind of ran a similar scam on her.

01:32:31.460 So it's usually somebody who you trust or you think you love, who you trusted the wrong person.

01:32:36.560 And before you know it, you've been threatened into doing this kind of work.

01:32:39.280 And you're not the only one.

01:32:40.900 Yeah.

01:32:41.320 Yeah.

01:32:41.500 The scintillating aspects of this story have been the things that people have talked about much.

01:32:45.220 Is it most, is he gay?

01:32:46.460 Is he trying to groom an adult man?

01:32:48.860 Is he doing sex trafficking?

01:32:51.300 But the legal filings, there are shootings in there.

01:32:55.620 That's right.

01:32:56.560 And Diddy has like a history of being in situations where someone gets shot.

01:33:01.920 There's a gun involved.

01:33:03.140 That's J-Lo.

01:33:03.460 It's like it had something to do with him.

01:33:06.000 And I mean, with the last situation with Cassie, which he settles out of court.

01:33:09.700 One day after she filed it.

01:33:12.300 I mean, her legal filing is extraordinary.

01:33:14.640 Threatening to blow up another celebrity's vehicle.

01:33:17.440 The vehicle then blows up.

01:33:19.720 Like this is a disturbing, disturbing trend.

01:33:23.580 And it is pretty alarming to see all of this stuff playing out.

01:33:27.020 I was a bit surprised as well to see Homeland Security involved.

01:33:30.360 And I understand why they might be.

01:33:32.080 Were you at all surprised by the scope of the raid when you said that?

01:33:36.820 And I didn't care.

01:33:37.520 I have to say, because in speaking with a lot of these recovering sex traffic victims, you know, obviously they've gotten out of it.

01:33:44.340 Now they're on NBC with me talking about it.

01:33:47.020 Many of them work with the FBI now.

01:33:49.260 Like, for example, I know the Super Bowl is a very popular spot for girls to get, quote, recruited against their will.

01:33:56.220 These young women are in danger.

01:33:58.680 And so victims of sex trafficking will work with the FBI.

01:34:01.820 So it is a federal thing.

01:34:02.860 Like, they actually are cracking down on this.

01:34:05.900 Donald Trump signed a law that made it up the penalties for sex trafficking.

01:34:09.960 So I'm not surprised if they actually have good reason to believe he's doing anything close to that with young women or men.

01:34:16.660 That's exactly what you would see.

01:34:18.140 So I do not I have no sympathy for him.

01:34:20.440 I'm not shocked by what I saw.

01:34:21.940 I hope we see many more just like it, because this is a disgusting crime that so many young women find themselves pulled into against their will.

01:34:30.340 These are not voluntary, quote, sex workers, which is the new favorite term amongst the left.

01:34:34.960 These are these are more like indentured servants who are afraid and getting hurt.

01:34:40.260 And we kind of just class them into willing prostitutes.

01:34:43.740 And we we don't send in any cavalry to save them.

01:34:45.980 And especially not in the case of somebody this rich and famous and powerful, not saying he did it.

01:34:50.900 He's denied this, not in response to these charges, but all the lawsuits against him.

01:34:54.500 I'm just wary of there have been a lot of cases where you hear sex trafficking at the beginning at the press conference and people like, oh, my God.

01:35:01.100 And then when it comes down to it, it's not just that, oh, they couldn't quite prove it.

01:35:04.480 But like, it wasn't sex trafficking.

01:35:05.780 Or it was like one flight of like one woman who may or may not have wanted to be there.

01:35:10.520 One Vietnamese prostitute that Bob Kraft was getting a handy from.

01:35:15.160 But that I mean, seriously, that was that was billed as a gigantic sex trafficking case.

01:35:19.840 And it just wasn't.

01:35:20.580 It never was from the beginning.

01:35:22.060 It was at the press conference level.

01:35:23.720 And then everyone goes crazy about it.

01:35:25.900 Not saying this is all the that's such the scale of this thing is absolutely different.

01:35:31.680 But I think it makes you think that with the military force that you saw marshaled for that for that raid that presumably they have something.

01:35:41.820 But, you know, at the same time, my skepticism, which everybody should have skepticism about these things, is, you know, we've seen this weaponized a lot against rich people, against, you know, Supreme Court justices, things like that.

01:35:54.560 But I just like to take a step back and let's see what the evidence produces.

01:35:59.060 And that's about it.

01:35:59.860 So I don't know what it's all about.

01:36:00.720 But if you're going to put money on it, bet my way.

01:36:02.940 Guys.

01:36:03.740 Are you betting on this?

01:36:04.780 Wonderful.

01:36:05.360 You're a sick woman.

01:36:06.900 We've established that.

01:36:08.320 I refer you back to the rectum.

01:36:11.640 You got it in by the end.

01:36:13.140 One more reference.

01:36:14.240 You got it in.

01:36:15.660 Bye.

01:36:16.020 Bye.

01:36:16.160 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:36:21.220 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 28, 2024

＂The View＂ Exposed, Biden's Glitzy Fundraiser, and MSNBC's Tantrums, with The Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 752

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