The Megyn Kelly Show - The Weak Case Against President Trump, with Rep. Byron Donalds, Arthur Aidala, Dave Aronberg, and Brad Smith

00:00:00.000 Your business doesn't move in a straight line.

00:00:02.840 Make sure your team is taken care of through every twist and turn

00:00:05.980 with Canada Life Savings, Retirement and Benefits Plans.

00:00:09.660 Whether you want to grow your team, support your employees at every stage

00:00:13.120 or build a workplace people want to be a part of,

00:00:16.200 Canada Life has flexible plans for companies of all sizes

00:00:19.400 so it's easy to find a solution that works for you.

00:00:22.840 Visit canadalife.com slash employee benefits to learn more.

00:00:26.540 Canada Life. Insurance. Investments. Advice.

00:00:31.100 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:33.120 Your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.600 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:46.060 What a day yesterday. What a sad day for America.

00:00:50.940 James Comey once again tweeting out,

00:00:53.560 another good day. What a small, petty man.

00:00:58.680 Working out his own vindictiveness

00:01:00.440 on the nation, on our conscience,

00:01:03.520 as we watch this spectacle unfold that's bad for the country.

00:01:07.080 I think it's good for Trump politically.

00:01:09.260 It's not good for Trump as a human.

00:01:11.300 And it's certainly not good for America.

00:01:13.620 James Comey, all about him to the end.

00:01:16.600 What a sad, sad ending for that man.

00:01:19.020 I used to respect him. He's not the story.

00:01:21.320 Thirty-four felony counts.

00:01:23.400 That's what we've seen.

00:01:24.680 A lot of prosecutors I respect

00:01:26.160 recoiling with what Alvin Bragg,

00:01:28.980 the New York DA, did there,

00:01:30.600 which is called stacking.

00:01:32.280 He doesn't really have 34 crimes.

00:01:33.900 He has one alleged action

00:01:35.440 that he's piecemealed out

00:01:37.060 into 34 felony counts

00:01:38.680 because on this date,

00:01:39.700 an entry was made in the books.

00:01:40.780 And on this date,

00:01:41.600 an entry was made in the books.

00:01:43.040 And he's trying to make Trump

00:01:44.740 look like a multiple-time felon

00:01:46.820 when really he's got one course of conduct

00:01:49.200 that he claims is illegal.

00:01:51.280 And we've got a great legal panel

00:01:53.100 to get into that in one minute.

00:01:54.420 But I'm going to set you up with the facts.

00:01:57.160 I've listened to show after show,

00:01:59.520 and I probably love the same ones you do.

00:02:02.020 Jumping right at what BS

00:02:03.760 this whole thing is.

00:02:04.800 Well, let's talk about

00:02:05.480 what he actually revealed, okay?

00:02:06.800 Because it's worthwhile to see

00:02:08.020 what does Alvin Bragg say

00:02:09.920 his case is about.

00:02:12.260 It's, yes, the Stormy Daniels thing.

00:02:13.780 There's more to it.

00:02:14.420 But let's look at what he says

00:02:16.080 so far his evidence is.

00:02:18.920 And then we'll talk with the lawyers

00:02:20.120 about whether the law

00:02:21.080 makes anything out of those facts,

00:02:23.180 whether the law has any problem

00:02:24.500 with those facts.

00:02:26.100 He's alleging, as we expected,

00:02:27.760 the falsification of business records

00:02:29.800 by Trump in the first degree.

00:02:32.920 And he dates it back to 2017.

00:02:35.360 Now, this is a DA, Alvin Bragg,

00:02:37.040 who will barely prosecute

00:02:38.120 violent crime in New York City.

00:02:39.940 He has reduced 52% of felonies

00:02:42.280 in a city that is crime-ridden

00:02:43.840 to misdemeanors,

00:02:46.240 failing to convict

00:02:47.020 in half of those felonies

00:02:47.900 he does choose to prosecute.

00:02:49.540 So this guy is not too cognizant

00:02:51.960 of the safety of New Yorkers.

00:02:54.060 But this case,

00:02:55.180 he cares deeply about.

00:02:56.180 Not because of politics, no.

00:02:57.700 No.

00:02:58.680 But because while armed robberies

00:03:01.380 may not really trouble him,

00:03:03.380 proper document maintenance

00:03:04.940 is integral to a safe metropolis.

00:03:08.960 That is why we have a history

00:03:10.380 in the Manhattan DA's office.

00:03:11.800 of vigorously enforcing

00:03:13.480 white-collar crime.

00:03:14.940 He said it's the bread and butter

00:03:16.180 of our white-collar work.

00:03:18.240 We have a distinct and strong,

00:03:19.800 I would say profound,

00:03:21.300 independent interest

00:03:22.080 in New York State.

00:03:22.840 This is the business capital

00:03:24.420 of the world.

00:03:26.820 Profound interest

00:03:27.960 in going after those

00:03:29.040 poor bookkeepers.

00:03:31.000 God knows where things could go

00:03:32.260 if you didn't stay on top

00:03:33.600 of the cross T's and dotted I's.

00:03:35.800 Trust me,

00:03:36.320 it has absolutely nothing to do

00:03:38.080 with any of these boasts

00:03:40.000 that Alvin Bragg offered

00:03:42.020 to get elected DA

00:03:43.820 in the first place.

00:03:45.820 When I was in the AG's office,

00:03:47.660 I sued Trump over 100 times

00:03:49.220 for his administration's misconduct

00:03:50.680 and brought a case

00:03:52.880 against the Trump Foundation

00:03:53.980 and held him accountable.

00:03:55.060 I'm the candidate in the race

00:03:56.260 who has the experience

00:03:57.380 with Donald Trump.

00:03:58.980 I was the chief deputy

00:04:00.080 in the attorney general's office.

00:04:02.000 We sued the Trump administration

00:04:03.340 over 100 times.

00:04:04.880 I know how to litigate with him.

00:04:07.320 I also led the team

00:04:08.260 that did the Trump Foundation case.

00:04:10.180 So I'm ready to go

00:04:11.500 wherever the facts take me.

00:04:12.920 I'd be hard to argue

00:04:13.600 with the fact that that'd be

00:04:14.580 the most important,

00:04:15.520 most high-profile case.

00:04:17.400 And I've seen him up front

00:04:18.480 and seen the lawlessness

00:04:19.400 that he can do.

00:04:20.160 So I do have a lot of experience

00:04:21.800 with the former president.

00:04:23.860 I think it's important

00:04:24.660 to elect someone

00:04:25.900 who is well-prepared

00:04:27.320 to pick up wherever

00:04:28.220 the sitting district attorney

00:04:29.800 leaves off.

00:04:30.660 If Brock would be

00:04:32.040 one of the most consequential cases

00:04:33.660 I'm in the history

00:04:34.640 of local enforcement

00:04:35.560 and we need someone

00:04:36.160 who's ready on day one.

00:04:39.400 Okay.

00:04:40.300 So it's not political.

00:04:41.520 Got it?

00:04:42.160 Check.

00:04:42.900 So exactly how

00:04:44.380 did Donald Trump

00:04:45.100 allegedly mischaracterize

00:04:46.740 his business records,

00:04:47.740 according to Alvin Bragg?

00:04:48.960 Well, Bragg alleges

00:04:49.700 Trump indirectly

00:04:50.500 through his then-lawyer

00:04:51.780 paid off three people

00:04:53.240 who were about to trash him

00:04:54.240 publicly before the 2016 election.

00:04:56.320 Then he listed those expenses

00:04:57.820 as reimbursement

00:04:59.280 for legal expenses.

00:05:01.500 That's what he's alleging.

00:05:03.500 Bragg says that

00:05:04.220 Trump,

00:05:05.540 his then-attorney and fixer,

00:05:06.800 now-convicted liar and felon,

00:05:08.240 Michael Cohen,

00:05:09.320 and a third party,

00:05:10.620 the CEO of AMI,

00:05:11.840 that's the publisher

00:05:12.340 of the National Enquirer,

00:05:13.480 David Pecker,

00:05:14.320 got together

00:05:15.560 and struck a deal

00:05:16.740 to catch negative stories

00:05:18.720 about Trump

00:05:19.200 in the lead-up

00:05:19.640 to the 2016 election

00:05:20.660 and to kill them,

00:05:22.340 to not run them,

00:05:23.420 and to bury them.

00:05:24.980 Bragg alleges

00:05:25.560 this effort began in 2015

00:05:26.840 and included

00:05:27.540 three payoffs

00:05:28.620 to people

00:05:29.000 with unflattering stories

00:05:30.080 about Trump.

00:05:30.540 Porn star Stormy Daniels,

00:05:32.760 a woman named

00:05:33.680 Karen McDougal as well,

00:05:35.060 both of whom claimed

00:05:35.860 to have had affairs

00:05:36.900 with Trump,

00:05:37.520 he denies it,

00:05:38.420 and a former Trump Tower

00:05:39.520 doorman who allegedly

00:05:40.380 had a story about

00:05:41.640 a so-called Trump love child,

00:05:43.820 which turned out

00:05:44.360 to be a lie.

00:05:45.860 Michael Cohen,

00:05:46.640 who's already pleaded guilty

00:05:47.980 to other offenses

00:05:49.280 which landed him in jail

00:05:50.480 as well as this one,

00:05:52.000 is cooperating with the feds

00:05:53.480 but has the credibility

00:05:54.780 of a psychopath.

00:05:55.460 He is not a reliable witness,

00:05:58.180 we'll get to that,

00:05:59.560 but Bragg says

00:06:00.780 he has more

00:06:01.320 than just Michael Cohen.

00:06:03.160 Michael Cohen

00:06:03.840 did testify

00:06:04.300 before this grand jury,

00:06:05.300 David Pecker,

00:06:05.960 the National Enquirer guy,

00:06:07.420 did too.

00:06:08.900 Now, normally,

00:06:09.920 falsification of business records

00:06:11.280 in New York

00:06:11.960 is a misdemeanor.

00:06:13.320 That would have posed

00:06:14.080 a problem for Alvin Bragg

00:06:15.300 and his promises

00:06:16.020 to get Trump

00:06:16.600 because the statute

00:06:17.480 of limitations

00:06:17.980 on these misdemeanors

00:06:18.920 two years

00:06:20.040 had long since expired.

00:06:22.640 Bragg gets around

00:06:23.320 that problem

00:06:24.060 by elevating

00:06:24.780 these alleged petty crimes

00:06:26.300 to felonies

00:06:27.020 which have a five-year

00:06:28.240 statute of limitations.

00:06:29.620 How does he do that?

00:06:31.000 He says

00:06:31.600 the alleged record shenanigans

00:06:33.440 were done

00:06:34.740 with the intent

00:06:36.060 to cover up

00:06:37.220 an underlying crime.

00:06:39.020 Remember that,

00:06:39.740 with the intent

00:06:40.700 to cover up

00:06:41.860 an underlying crime.

00:06:44.080 He says

00:06:44.640 Michael Cohen

00:06:45.240 used some shell companies

00:06:47.120 to make the relevant payments

00:06:48.740 and even recorded

00:06:49.920 Donald Trump

00:06:50.640 discussing these deals

00:06:52.640 urging Cohen

00:06:53.760 paying cash

00:06:54.580 which Bragg suggests

00:06:56.240 shows Trump knew

00:06:58.280 he was doing something wrong.

00:07:00.660 Here's the tape.

00:07:01.840 I need to open up

00:07:03.360 a company

00:07:04.040 for the transfer

00:07:05.940 of all of that info

00:07:07.420 regarding our friend David

00:07:09.060 so that I'm going to do

00:07:11.360 that right away.

00:07:11.900 I've actually come up

00:07:12.640 and I've spoken to Alan

00:07:14.780 Weisselberg

00:07:15.660 about how to set

00:07:17.420 the whole thing up

00:07:18.280 with

00:07:19.340 funding.

00:07:22.000 Yes.

00:07:23.600 And

00:07:24.000 it's

00:07:24.740 all the stuff

00:07:25.880 all the stuff

00:07:27.000 because, you know,

00:07:27.620 you never know

00:07:28.000 where that company

00:07:28.660 you never know

00:07:29.020 where he's going to be.

00:07:30.200 Correct.

00:07:31.020 So I'm

00:07:31.600 I'm all over that

00:07:32.560 and I spoke to Alan

00:07:33.820 about it

00:07:34.280 when it comes time

00:07:34.980 for the financing

00:07:35.740 which will be

00:07:36.580 what financing?

00:07:38.720 We'll have to

00:07:39.280 pay you.

00:07:40.520 So

00:07:40.560 no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:07:42.240 Okay.

00:07:45.080 Bragg also alleges

00:07:46.140 the meetings

00:07:46.660 around these payments

00:07:47.880 and the timing

00:07:48.720 of those payments

00:07:50.380 themselves

00:07:50.940 make clear

00:07:51.600 that this was all

00:07:53.300 about helping

00:07:53.900 Trump's electoral chances

00:07:55.620 and had nothing

00:07:56.300 to do with sparing

00:07:57.160 Trump any embarrassment

00:07:58.220 with Melania

00:07:59.760 or his family,

00:08:01.220 et cetera.

00:08:02.380 Now,

00:08:02.540 Bragg claims that

00:08:03.220 after the election,

00:08:04.800 Trump actually invited

00:08:05.740 David Pecker

00:08:06.280 to the White House

00:08:06.900 to, quote,

00:08:07.620 thank him for his help

00:08:08.540 during the campaign.

00:08:09.680 Maggie Haberman

00:08:10.220 at the New York Times

00:08:10.900 in a jaw-dropping moment

00:08:12.080 today.

00:08:12.500 I didn't know that.

00:08:13.880 I didn't know

00:08:14.360 David Pecker went

00:08:15.160 to the White House

00:08:15.580 and Trump thanked him.

00:08:16.920 Did you watch

00:08:17.640 the National Enquirer

00:08:18.560 during 2016?

00:08:19.540 Trust me,

00:08:20.020 I was on it regularly

00:08:21.720 because Trump

00:08:23.180 was not too happy

00:08:23.940 with me during that time

00:08:24.860 and they just

00:08:25.800 excoriated me

00:08:26.780 week after week.

00:08:28.200 I'm not surprised

00:08:29.260 at all Trump

00:08:30.060 thanked David Pecker

00:08:31.140 and it may have had

00:08:31.880 absolutely zero to do

00:08:33.480 with his whole

00:08:34.360 catch and kill scheme.

00:08:35.420 I have no idea

00:08:36.020 why he was thanking him,

00:08:36.960 but I could show you

00:08:37.580 several covers

00:08:38.220 that I was on

00:08:39.700 that Trump

00:08:40.420 probably was happy about.

00:08:42.460 And may have had

00:08:43.360 absolutely nothing to do

00:08:44.120 with Stormy Daniels

00:08:44.920 or Michael Cohen

00:08:45.560 or any of this.

00:08:46.420 The Enquirer was very much

00:08:47.720 behind Trump

00:08:48.420 throughout this election.

00:08:50.240 So thanking him,

00:08:51.620 Pecker,

00:08:51.880 for his help,

00:08:52.680 your humble correspondent

00:08:53.700 would submit,

00:08:54.800 is perhaps not the

00:08:56.320 nail in the coffin

00:08:57.260 Alvin Bragg thinks it is.

00:08:58.820 All right,

00:08:59.880 so that's the alleged scheme

00:09:00.880 as portrayed

00:09:03.240 by Alvin Bragg.

00:09:04.060 That's it.

00:09:04.980 That they got together,

00:09:05.960 they caught and killed,

00:09:07.240 they got rid of these stories

00:09:08.580 and ultimately

00:09:09.580 it was paid off

00:09:10.500 by Michael Cohen.

00:09:11.640 They claim he was

00:09:12.440 reimbursed by Trump.

00:09:13.540 They seem to admit

00:09:14.360 it was Trump's

00:09:15.040 personal funds.

00:09:16.100 It wasn't from

00:09:16.460 campaign finance funds.

00:09:18.040 It was from

00:09:18.280 campaign funds.

00:09:19.440 Trump's personal funds.

00:09:20.800 And then Trump,

00:09:21.440 when he listed it

00:09:22.060 on his business records,

00:09:23.780 did not say

00:09:24.480 payoffs to Stormy Daniels.

00:09:25.780 He said,

00:09:26.680 pay off to my lawyer.

00:09:28.340 He said,

00:09:28.740 legal reimbursements.

00:09:31.040 That's the scheme

00:09:32.140 as alleged

00:09:33.280 by Alvin Bragg.

00:09:34.580 But was it actually

00:09:36.260 illegal?

00:09:38.140 As alleged,

00:09:39.760 do we see

00:09:40.740 an actual felony here?

00:09:42.760 The intent

00:09:43.540 to cover up

00:09:44.380 an underlying crime.

00:09:46.060 What was

00:09:46.860 the specific crime

00:09:47.940 that Trump

00:09:49.020 committed here

00:09:49.920 and was trying

00:09:51.300 to cover up?

00:09:52.480 Listen to Bragg on that.

00:09:54.420 The indictment

00:09:55.220 doesn't specify

00:09:55.680 because the law

00:09:56.260 does not so require.

00:09:57.840 In my remarks,

00:09:58.640 I mentioned

00:09:59.160 a couple of laws

00:10:00.100 which I will highlight

00:10:01.360 again now.

00:10:03.480 The first

00:10:04.440 is New York State

00:10:05.740 election law,

00:10:06.780 which makes it a crime

00:10:07.940 to conspire

00:10:09.440 to promote

00:10:10.260 a candidacy

00:10:10.960 by unlawful means.

00:10:13.240 I further

00:10:14.020 indicated

00:10:14.620 a number

00:10:15.340 of unlawful means,

00:10:16.360 including

00:10:16.660 more additional

00:10:17.840 false statements,

00:10:19.180 including statements

00:10:19.980 that were planned

00:10:20.480 to be made

00:10:20.840 to tax authorities.

00:10:23.220 I also noted

00:10:24.340 the federal

00:10:24.860 election law

00:10:25.840 cap on

00:10:26.700 contribution

00:10:27.760 limits.

00:10:31.060 Okay.

00:10:32.020 It's so cute.

00:10:33.340 I don't have to tell you.

00:10:34.640 I know,

00:10:35.300 but you don't.

00:10:36.740 Seriously,

00:10:37.460 that's the level

00:10:37.920 we're at

00:10:38.200 on a presidential

00:10:38.820 indictment.

00:10:39.680 First time in U.S.

00:10:40.500 history,

00:10:40.880 we have a

00:10:41.720 former U.S.

00:10:42.680 president

00:10:43.020 sitting now,

00:10:44.380 arrested,

00:10:45.280 indicted,

00:10:46.140 being arraigned,

00:10:46.840 and Alvin Bragg

00:10:48.080 is too cute

00:10:48.880 by half.

00:10:50.240 He won't tell us?

00:10:51.300 Oh,

00:10:51.720 sure,

00:10:52.500 that's fun.

00:10:53.520 We'll just figure it out

00:10:54.220 as the case goes on.

00:10:55.000 Thanks so much.

00:10:56.340 Joining me now

00:10:56.880 to discuss all of this,

00:10:58.140 we've got some

00:10:58.480 brilliant legal minds,

00:10:59.960 two of whom

00:11:00.680 gave their legal

00:11:01.380 analysis to us

00:11:02.200 on Monday

00:11:02.760 before we saw

00:11:03.520 the indictment,

00:11:04.480 before we saw

00:11:04.960 the actual charges,

00:11:06.460 and now they're back

00:11:07.160 to break down

00:11:07.940 all the angles.

00:11:08.660 Arthur Idala,

00:11:09.880 one of New York City's

00:11:11.300 top criminal defense

00:11:12.340 attorneys,

00:11:12.660 former prosecutor,

00:11:13.260 he's now managing

00:11:14.320 partner of Idala Bertunas

00:11:15.740 and Caymans,

00:11:17.280 and also with me,

00:11:18.300 Dave Ehrenberg.

00:11:19.220 He's the state attorney

00:11:20.040 for Palm Beach County,

00:11:20.920 Florida,

00:11:21.280 where Mar-a-Lago

00:11:22.080 is located,

00:11:23.280 and we're happy

00:11:23.900 to also be joined

00:11:24.740 today by Brad Smith.

00:11:26.340 Brad is a former

00:11:27.320 commissioner

00:11:27.800 of the Federal

00:11:28.720 Election Commission.

00:11:30.420 He served on

00:11:31.080 the commission

00:11:31.940 for five years,

00:11:33.780 appointed by

00:11:34.540 former President

00:11:35.180 Bill Clinton.

00:11:36.000 He's also a graduate

00:11:36.640 of Harvard Law,

00:11:38.100 and we really thought

00:11:38.800 it'd be great

00:11:39.140 to have Brad join us

00:11:39.980 because we need

00:11:41.360 to know about

00:11:41.820 election law

00:11:42.540 and how one

00:11:43.480 violates it.

00:11:44.380 Guys,

00:11:44.780 welcome back

00:11:45.100 to the show.

00:11:47.280 Great to be with you,

00:11:48.260 Megan.

00:11:49.240 Okay,

00:11:49.840 so before we get

00:11:51.300 to you,

00:11:51.580 Brad,

00:11:51.780 because we're

00:11:52.040 going to go

00:11:52.380 into this

00:11:53.160 federal election

00:11:53.840 law analysis,

00:11:55.140 let me start

00:11:55.660 with you guys,

00:11:56.340 Dave and Arthur,

00:11:57.180 on what you thought

00:11:58.580 when you actually

00:11:59.300 got to read

00:11:59.840 the indictment

00:12:00.520 plus the extra

00:12:02.500 indictment edition

00:12:03.820 of the statement

00:12:04.720 of facts.

00:12:05.500 This is stuff

00:12:06.100 Alvin Bragg wanted

00:12:06.800 us to hear,

00:12:07.520 much of which I just

00:12:08.280 read.

00:12:09.280 That's where I got

00:12:10.020 most of my information

00:12:10.840 from that I did

00:12:11.540 in my intro.

00:12:12.080 But it was not

00:12:13.020 in the actual

00:12:13.580 indictment.

00:12:14.200 It was just

00:12:14.760 sort of his

00:12:15.240 storytelling.

00:12:16.920 It was story time

00:12:18.100 with Alvin Bragg.

00:12:19.460 I'll start with you,

00:12:20.240 Arthur,

00:12:20.460 your thoughts.

00:12:22.200 Well,

00:12:22.600 let me just give you

00:12:23.100 a little what happened

00:12:24.300 yesterday and I'll give

00:12:24.960 you a little horse's

00:12:25.720 mouth.

00:12:26.560 So I was there,

00:12:27.480 I was at the courthouse

00:12:28.240 yesterday and as you

00:12:30.240 know,

00:12:30.540 Megan,

00:12:30.800 I have a long-term

00:12:32.220 relationship with Joe

00:12:32.940 Takapina.

00:12:33.520 We went to high school

00:12:34.120 together.

00:12:34.640 We've been buddies.

00:12:35.240 We had dinner the night

00:12:35.900 before this whole thing

00:12:37.100 went down.

00:12:38.420 And Susan Necklace

00:12:39.140 and I have cases

00:12:39.840 together.

00:12:40.320 We know each other

00:12:40.700 a long time.

00:12:41.420 So they came out

00:12:42.380 of the courthouse

00:12:43.040 and literally I was

00:12:44.280 the first person

00:12:44.900 they spoke to.

00:12:46.140 And I looked,

00:12:46.820 I said,

00:12:47.120 I asked them two

00:12:47.720 questions.

00:12:48.200 I said,

00:12:48.440 what took so long?

00:12:49.780 Because that was a

00:12:50.680 long period of time

00:12:51.740 to be in the courtroom.

00:12:52.440 And they said it was

00:12:53.080 the media,

00:12:54.340 the media's attorney

00:12:55.360 arguing for more

00:12:57.020 access.

00:12:57.420 They wanted

00:12:58.040 photographs to be

00:12:59.540 taken during the

00:13:00.160 whole proceeding.

00:13:00.840 They wanted video in

00:13:01.600 the courtroom.

00:13:02.000 So that was my

00:13:02.540 first question.

00:13:03.480 But my second

00:13:03.980 question is,

00:13:04.880 what's in the

00:13:05.380 indictment?

00:13:06.180 And Megan,

00:13:06.580 they were both,

00:13:07.260 both Joe and Susan

00:13:08.380 had these big smiles

00:13:09.580 on their face.

00:13:10.260 They're like,

00:13:11.040 it's nothing.

00:13:12.360 It's nothing.

00:13:13.220 It's what we thought.

00:13:14.320 They didn't use the

00:13:15.140 term you used,

00:13:15.900 which is an accurate

00:13:16.460 term, stacking.

00:13:17.460 They go,

00:13:17.740 it's one crime

00:13:18.460 that he turned

00:13:18.920 into 34 crimes.

00:13:20.780 And then Takapina

00:13:21.500 looks at me and

00:13:22.020 goes,

00:13:22.460 Idala,

00:13:23.100 it's not a crime.

00:13:24.280 There's no crime

00:13:25.120 here.

00:13:25.800 And I think

00:13:26.800 our friend

00:13:27.600 is going to be

00:13:28.840 able to tell us

00:13:29.420 that there's no

00:13:29.920 election law

00:13:30.620 violation here.

00:13:31.600 At best,

00:13:33.920 at best,

00:13:35.520 there may be

00:13:36.660 some misdemeanors

00:13:37.460 here.

00:13:38.520 And if the judge

00:13:40.220 said they didn't,

00:13:41.860 in the grand jury

00:13:42.700 minutes,

00:13:43.180 did not satisfy

00:13:44.000 that bootstrapping

00:13:45.020 into the felony

00:13:45.840 part of it,

00:13:47.920 it's a possibility

00:13:48.920 that either the

00:13:50.300 whole case gets

00:13:50.960 thrown out,

00:13:51.480 which is going to

00:13:51.820 be the first

00:13:52.220 motion they file,

00:13:53.500 or maybe there's

00:13:54.620 misdemeanors left.

00:13:56.000 But weak,

00:13:56.520 weak,

00:13:56.760 weak.

00:13:56.960 As you and I

00:13:57.520 said on Monday,

00:13:58.600 this was weak.

00:13:59.340 It turned out to

00:13:59.980 be weak.

00:14:00.400 I've looked at

00:14:01.220 thousands of

00:14:02.160 indictments in

00:14:03.220 the city of New

00:14:03.920 York,

00:14:04.580 and this is a

00:14:05.340 weak indictment

00:14:06.820 period.

00:14:07.320 Amen.

00:14:07.600 And Alvin Bragg

00:14:08.240 did himself no

00:14:09.000 favors yesterday,

00:14:09.760 as you said,

00:14:10.740 doing story time

00:14:11.680 with Alvin Bragg,

00:14:12.700 as opposed to

00:14:13.360 doing what Mr.

00:14:14.040 Borgenthau would

00:14:14.660 have done,

00:14:15.360 the storied

00:14:15.960 district attorney

00:14:16.680 in Manhattan,

00:14:17.280 which would have

00:14:17.760 come out with

00:14:18.260 guns blazing and

00:14:19.680 basically would have

00:14:20.320 done an opening

00:14:20.900 statement to a jury

00:14:21.960 at this press

00:14:23.240 conference showing

00:14:23.880 you what a

00:14:24.680 powerful case he

00:14:25.620 has.

00:14:25.980 That did not

00:14:26.500 happen yesterday.

00:14:27.820 I think,

00:14:28.100 Dave,

00:14:28.220 you'll agree that

00:14:28.800 if it's reduced

00:14:29.360 to the misdemeanor

00:14:30.140 of falsification

00:14:31.040 of business

00:14:31.540 records,

00:14:32.260 this case is

00:14:32.900 done.

00:14:33.380 The statute of

00:14:34.020 limitations has

00:14:34.640 run on that.

00:14:35.240 The only way we're

00:14:35.800 still having a

00:14:36.360 court proceeding

00:14:36.860 is by tying it

00:14:38.180 to the alleged

00:14:39.220 intent to cover

00:14:40.420 up an underlying

00:14:42.020 crime.

00:14:44.420 And Megan,

00:14:44.940 even if he's

00:14:45.660 found guilty

00:14:46.320 and the statute

00:14:46.840 of limitations

00:14:47.240 has not run

00:14:48.700 of the

00:14:49.460 misdemeanors,

00:14:50.260 it would get a

00:14:50.860 slap in the wrist.

00:14:51.440 It would be a

00:14:51.820 loss for the

00:14:52.440 prosecutors.

00:14:53.500 The only way

00:14:54.180 they can move

00:14:55.360 forward with this

00:14:55.860 is if it's a

00:14:56.520 felony.

00:14:56.820 And when

00:14:57.540 Arthur and

00:14:58.380 I were on

00:14:58.800 your show

00:14:59.220 on Monday,

00:14:59.980 I thought

00:15:01.140 maybe there'd

00:15:01.620 be some

00:15:01.860 surprises.

00:15:02.440 Remember I

00:15:02.700 said,

00:15:03.360 perhaps there's

00:15:03.900 some more

00:15:04.260 serious financial

00:15:04.960 crimes here.

00:15:06.060 And you

00:15:07.240 were very

00:15:08.240 prescient because

00:15:09.020 you said

00:15:09.860 that my

00:15:11.420 reliance on

00:15:12.060 Jennifer Weisselberg,

00:15:12.900 the ex-daughter-in-law

00:15:13.760 of CFO

00:15:14.520 Alan Weisselberg,

00:15:15.620 was misplaced

00:15:16.580 because although

00:15:17.900 she may have

00:15:18.420 testified before

00:15:19.200 a grand jury,

00:15:20.440 it was a

00:15:20.720 different grand

00:15:21.280 jury,

00:15:22.080 and the

00:15:22.820 prosecutors

00:15:23.160 weren't going

00:15:23.540 to rely on

00:15:23.980 her.

00:15:24.160 I thought

00:15:24.700 that she was

00:15:25.380 testifying for

00:15:26.160 a reason

00:15:26.520 and they

00:15:26.860 would add

00:15:27.200 more financial

00:15:27.780 crimes.

00:15:28.240 They didn't.

00:15:29.180 This case

00:15:29.820 is all about

00:15:31.280 the hush money

00:15:31.720 payments.

00:15:32.560 And so,

00:15:33.200 as Arthur

00:15:33.920 said,

00:15:34.220 you've got to

00:15:34.660 find the

00:15:35.140 second crime

00:15:35.860 that it

00:15:37.220 leads to,

00:15:38.460 that it

00:15:38.880 conceals,

00:15:39.540 or else

00:15:39.840 you've got

00:15:40.080 nothing.

00:15:41.120 So what is

00:15:41.680 that second

00:15:42.060 crime?

00:15:42.760 Unfortunately,

00:15:43.740 the district

00:15:44.360 attorney's

00:15:45.040 indictment

00:15:45.520 does not

00:15:46.000 tell us.

00:15:47.340 We don't

00:15:48.180 know.

00:15:49.040 And he

00:15:49.500 made a

00:15:49.880 press conference

00:15:50.880 afterwards where

00:15:51.640 he suggested

00:15:52.460 it was

00:15:52.940 federal

00:15:53.680 campaign finance

00:15:55.160 violations,

00:15:55.680 and that's

00:15:56.040 why I'm

00:15:56.240 glad we

00:15:56.480 have Brad

00:15:56.780 on the

00:15:57.940 show.

00:15:58.700 Also,

00:15:59.060 you have

00:15:59.320 state

00:15:59.740 election

00:16:00.220 law

00:16:00.580 violations

00:16:01.200 and

00:16:01.960 possibly

00:16:02.300 some

00:16:02.560 tax

00:16:02.880 fraud.

00:16:03.080 Now,

00:16:03.280 each one

00:16:03.680 of those

00:16:04.120 is

00:16:04.820 problematic.

00:16:06.100 When it

00:16:06.280 comes to

00:16:06.520 the federal

00:16:07.000 campaign

00:16:08.380 finance

00:16:08.860 violations,

00:16:09.660 you'd have

00:16:09.940 to piggyback

00:16:10.680 on federal

00:16:11.200 law as a

00:16:12.020 state

00:16:12.180 prosecutor.

00:16:13.080 That's

00:16:13.540 uncharted

00:16:13.900 territory.

00:16:15.460 Number

00:16:15.600 two,

00:16:16.040 when it

00:16:16.320 comes to

00:16:16.600 state

00:16:16.880 election

00:16:17.380 law

00:16:17.740 violations,

00:16:18.360 that's

00:16:18.560 a vague

00:16:19.020 broad

00:16:19.540 statute that

00:16:20.280 may or may

00:16:21.100 not be

00:16:21.440 preempted by

00:16:22.040 federal law

00:16:22.640 when it

00:16:22.840 comes to

00:16:23.100 federal races.

00:16:23.680 And number

00:16:24.620 three,

00:16:24.900 when it

00:16:25.060 comes to

00:16:25.360 tax fraud,

00:16:26.260 that could

00:16:26.800 also be

00:16:27.140 problematic

00:16:27.620 because it

00:16:28.660 looks like

00:16:28.920 Michael Cohen

00:16:29.440 paid the

00:16:29.920 taxes.

00:16:30.200 That's why

00:16:30.540 he got

00:16:30.820 such an

00:16:31.120 excessive

00:16:31.480 reimbursement

00:16:32.140 for the

00:16:32.400 money he

00:16:32.680 laid out

00:16:33.140 and there

00:16:33.960 would be

00:16:34.260 no loss.

00:16:35.660 Now, to

00:16:36.380 me, this

00:16:36.920 means that

00:16:37.580 the greatest

00:16:39.020 threat for

00:16:39.740 prosecutors is

00:16:40.540 this case

00:16:41.040 getting dismissed

00:16:42.280 in advance.

00:16:42.980 If they could

00:16:43.380 get this case

00:16:43.960 to the jury,

00:16:44.440 I think the

00:16:44.860 facts and the

00:16:45.480 statement of

00:16:45.840 facts were

00:16:46.720 more compelling

00:16:47.340 than I thought

00:16:48.120 they would be.

00:16:48.500 I think they

00:16:48.780 do show

00:16:49.200 intent to

00:16:50.480 influence an

00:16:51.060 election, but

00:16:51.640 I don't know

00:16:52.040 if this case

00:16:52.500 will get to

00:16:52.960 the jury.

00:16:53.440 That's the

00:16:53.820 big question

00:16:54.260 I have.

00:16:55.400 All right.

00:16:55.960 And that

00:16:56.180 leads me to

00:16:56.600 Brad.

00:16:57.420 So, I

00:16:58.620 mean, I

00:16:58.940 do think

00:16:59.340 Andy McCarthy

00:17:00.580 was saying

00:17:01.020 yesterday, you

00:17:02.080 can't do

00:17:02.560 this.

00:17:03.320 No matter

00:17:04.000 what Bragg

00:17:04.600 says about,

00:17:05.980 oh, the

00:17:06.440 law doesn't

00:17:06.960 require me to

00:17:07.500 tell you what

00:17:08.260 your underlying

00:17:08.740 felony was.

00:17:10.260 He's trying to

00:17:10.960 keep his options

00:17:11.540 open.

00:17:12.160 Andy McCarthy

00:17:12.580 was saying,

00:17:13.060 no, this

00:17:13.280 violates a

00:17:14.260 defendant's

00:17:15.080 fifth amendment

00:17:15.640 right to have

00:17:16.640 notice of the

00:17:17.120 charges against

00:17:17.680 him so he can

00:17:18.140 adequately defend

00:17:18.820 it and also

00:17:20.300 to prevent

00:17:21.400 double jeopardy.

00:17:22.360 Because what if

00:17:22.880 we go through

00:17:23.160 this whole trial,

00:17:24.220 Alvin Bragg never

00:17:24.840 commits himself

00:17:25.780 to a theory,

00:17:27.160 Trump gets

00:17:27.920 off, and then

00:17:29.100 somebody else

00:17:29.680 tries to take a

00:17:30.220 second bite at

00:17:31.140 the apple,

00:17:32.040 right?

00:17:32.200 He wants to

00:17:32.600 use the

00:17:32.940 indictment to

00:17:33.420 say, I've

00:17:33.900 already been

00:17:34.340 acquitted on

00:17:34.980 this stuff.

00:17:35.720 You can't

00:17:36.100 try me again.

00:17:36.780 This is my

00:17:37.540 constitutional

00:17:38.140 right.

00:17:38.500 So we do

00:17:39.520 need to know

00:17:40.300 what the

00:17:40.780 underlying

00:17:41.280 alleged felony

00:17:42.280 is, no matter

00:17:43.000 what Bragg

00:17:43.520 says, whether

00:17:44.560 he thinks he's

00:17:45.600 required to tell

00:17:46.120 us or not.

00:17:47.080 So probably

00:17:47.680 as Dave

00:17:49.300 points out,

00:17:49.700 we've got

00:17:49.900 federal election

00:17:50.400 law, we've

00:17:50.740 got state

00:17:51.060 election law,

00:17:51.900 we've got

00:17:52.100 state tax

00:17:52.600 law.

00:17:52.820 That's what

00:17:53.080 Bragg said

00:17:53.560 are the three

00:17:54.040 possibilities.

00:17:55.000 So federal

00:17:55.500 election law,

00:17:56.300 you were the

00:17:56.920 guy, Brad,

00:17:58.060 who was

00:17:58.700 responsible with

00:17:59.440 figuring out

00:18:00.040 whether somebody

00:18:00.600 should be charged

00:18:01.160 for violating

00:18:01.820 this.

00:18:03.400 Why?

00:18:04.480 Well, you tell

00:18:04.900 me whether it

00:18:05.540 would potentially

00:18:06.120 be a violation

00:18:07.060 of federal

00:18:07.500 election law

00:18:08.160 for Trump to

00:18:09.660 have sat down

00:18:10.240 with David

00:18:10.680 Pecker of the

00:18:11.500 National Enquirer

00:18:12.380 and Michael

00:18:13.040 Cohen, Trump's

00:18:13.780 fixer lawyer,

00:18:14.540 and said, let's

00:18:15.900 set up this

00:18:16.320 scheme whereby

00:18:17.560 David Pecker, you

00:18:18.760 either go find

00:18:19.640 people who are

00:18:20.220 going to trash

00:18:20.780 Trump or you

00:18:21.820 just remain

00:18:22.240 open-minded when

00:18:23.260 those people walk

00:18:23.820 through your door

00:18:24.280 and we establish

00:18:25.680 a fund and we

00:18:26.840 pay those people

00:18:27.500 to say, thank you

00:18:28.500 so much.

00:18:28.800 We'll take the

00:18:29.480 exclusive rights

00:18:30.200 to your story

00:18:30.740 and then you

00:18:31.600 never publish

00:18:32.140 them.

00:18:32.720 Thanks.

00:18:33.340 I appreciate

00:18:33.960 it.

00:18:34.440 You're a great

00:18:34.960 man, David

00:18:35.440 Pecker.

00:18:36.440 Peace out,

00:18:37.220 Trump.

00:18:37.540 Is that a

00:18:37.960 crime?

00:18:39.860 No.

00:18:40.540 Now, let me

00:18:41.220 begin by going

00:18:42.020 to the state

00:18:42.840 election crime

00:18:43.820 because I think

00:18:44.620 this is all

00:18:45.060 tied in.

00:18:45.820 As we just

00:18:46.480 heard the

00:18:47.280 DA Bragg say,

00:18:48.780 the state law

00:18:49.860 is a state law

00:18:50.940 that says it's

00:18:52.100 unlawful to

00:18:53.040 try to influence

00:18:54.180 an election by

00:18:55.700 an unlawful

00:18:56.440 means.

00:18:57.160 So he still

00:18:57.980 needs an

00:18:58.480 unlawful means

00:18:59.720 even to get

00:19:00.380 that state

00:19:00.960 charge in.

00:19:01.620 So you've

00:19:01.920 still got that

00:19:02.540 piggybacking

00:19:03.200 requirement.

00:19:04.140 And that takes

00:19:04.640 us to the

00:19:05.040 federal election

00:19:05.840 law, which is

00:19:07.140 the only thing

00:19:07.680 that appears

00:19:08.340 to be claimed

00:19:09.000 in the

00:19:09.900 indictment.

00:19:11.560 The statute,

00:19:12.620 the federal

00:19:12.900 statute says

00:19:13.620 that a

00:19:14.020 contribution

00:19:14.520 or an

00:19:14.860 expenditure

00:19:15.220 is anything

00:19:16.020 that is for

00:19:16.720 the purpose

00:19:17.520 of influencing

00:19:18.180 a campaign.

00:19:19.300 And this

00:19:19.560 is what

00:19:19.820 they've

00:19:20.040 hinged

00:19:20.540 everything

00:19:20.960 on and

00:19:21.580 they say,

00:19:22.420 well, look,

00:19:22.820 that was his

00:19:23.200 purpose was to

00:19:24.220 influence the

00:19:24.580 campaign, case

00:19:25.240 closed.

00:19:26.100 The problem

00:19:26.560 is that's

00:19:27.160 not,

00:19:27.560 quite the

00:19:28.460 proper reading

00:19:29.080 of that

00:19:29.400 statute.

00:19:30.260 The Supreme

00:19:30.740 Court is

00:19:31.080 long held,

00:19:31.580 and this is

00:19:31.860 a bedrock

00:19:32.420 principle of

00:19:32.980 federal campaign

00:19:33.660 finance law

00:19:34.440 that you

00:19:34.780 can't have

00:19:35.720 vague standards

00:19:36.840 that are subject

00:19:38.040 to the

00:19:38.560 interpretation

00:19:39.020 of the

00:19:39.500 listener or

00:19:40.340 the subjective

00:19:41.060 mindset of

00:19:42.280 the person

00:19:42.680 who's speaking

00:19:43.320 or acting.

00:19:45.080 So, for

00:19:45.460 example, if I

00:19:46.660 run an ad

00:19:47.340 saying, you

00:19:48.460 know, they

00:19:49.180 shouldn't indict

00:19:49.720 Trump, they

00:19:50.260 should indict

00:19:50.780 Hunter Biden,

00:19:52.500 right?

00:19:52.740 Even though

00:19:53.200 my purpose

00:19:54.440 might be to

00:19:55.740 help Trump

00:19:56.320 win re-election,

00:19:57.240 that's not an

00:19:58.160 expenditure under

00:19:58.800 the Federal

00:19:59.080 Campaign Act.

00:20:00.020 You have to

00:20:00.480 say something

00:20:00.980 like vote for,

00:20:01.860 vote against,

00:20:02.660 defeat, support,

00:20:03.560 that type of

00:20:04.360 thing.

00:20:05.020 Similarly, if I

00:20:05.840 give money to,

00:20:06.740 say, a pro-mega

00:20:08.340 think tank,

00:20:09.100 thinking that this

00:20:09.820 is a good way to

00:20:10.680 help Trump win

00:20:11.340 re-election, so

00:20:12.300 my purpose is to

00:20:13.560 help Trump win

00:20:14.120 re-election, is to

00:20:14.780 make a contribution,

00:20:16.180 that's not going

00:20:17.260 to count.

00:20:17.720 It has to go to

00:20:19.060 the campaign or to

00:20:20.180 some other

00:20:20.600 operation that

00:20:22.360 is specifically

00:20:23.060 advocating that

00:20:23.920 election or

00:20:24.340 defeat.

00:20:24.740 So the

00:20:24.980 subjective purpose

00:20:25.920 of the spender

00:20:26.640 is not really

00:20:27.500 what's at issue

00:20:28.040 here.

00:20:28.720 We can play

00:20:29.220 that out into

00:20:29.660 other examples.

00:20:30.720 Let's suppose I

00:20:31.380 decide to run for

00:20:32.120 Congress and I

00:20:33.500 say, you know, I

00:20:34.440 need to be in a

00:20:35.020 debate and I need

00:20:36.160 a really good

00:20:36.820 suit.

00:20:37.420 So I go out and

00:20:38.020 I spend, you

00:20:38.540 know, $2,000 on

00:20:39.940 a suit, which I

00:20:40.580 would never

00:20:41.000 otherwise do,

00:20:42.020 right?

00:20:42.900 It doesn't make

00:20:43.740 it a campaign

00:20:44.360 expense, even

00:20:45.260 though my purpose

00:20:46.400 was to do it to

00:20:47.420 influence the

00:20:47.960 election.

00:20:48.800 Or suppose I

00:20:50.160 I'm an

00:20:50.540 individual and I

00:20:51.420 have a messy

00:20:51.920 divorce in my

00:20:52.580 background and I

00:20:53.220 decide I'm going

00:20:53.720 to run for

00:20:54.120 office and I

00:20:55.120 say to my

00:20:55.560 lawyer, can we

00:20:56.440 seal those

00:20:56.900 records?

00:20:57.380 And I pay my

00:20:58.040 lawyer to try to

00:20:58.660 seal those

00:20:59.020 divorce records.

00:20:59.840 Even though I'm

00:21:00.400 doing it for the

00:21:01.000 purpose of

00:21:01.520 influencing a

00:21:02.120 campaign, it's

00:21:03.140 not a campaign

00:21:03.800 expenditure.

00:21:04.840 And in fact, the

00:21:05.660 federal law

00:21:06.520 discusses this in

00:21:07.800 detail with another

00:21:08.520 part of the

00:21:08.940 statute that says

00:21:09.700 not only are

00:21:10.820 these things not

00:21:11.480 campaign expenditures,

00:21:12.720 it is illegal to

00:21:14.040 use campaign

00:21:14.800 funds for these

00:21:16.220 types of

00:21:17.380 activities.

00:21:18.880 Anything that

00:21:19.480 might exist

00:21:20.440 whether you

00:21:21.060 were running

00:21:21.520 for office or

00:21:22.900 not.

00:21:23.840 You just can't

00:21:24.700 spend the

00:21:25.080 campaign funds

00:21:25.820 on it.

00:21:26.360 And I think

00:21:26.680 that's a very

00:21:27.400 practical observation.

00:21:29.760 So that's where

00:21:31.180 we begin.

00:21:31.860 The mere fact that

00:21:32.500 it was for the

00:21:32.900 purpose of

00:21:33.260 influencing the

00:21:33.760 election in

00:21:34.880 Trump's subjective

00:21:35.860 mind or anybody

00:21:36.640 else's isn't

00:21:37.720 really the criteria

00:21:38.860 that we use for

00:21:40.160 determining if

00:21:40.720 federal is for the

00:21:42.500 purpose of an

00:21:43.320 election.

00:21:44.080 And of course,

00:21:44.480 the whole alleged

00:21:45.060 crime then is that...

00:21:45.940 Hold that next

00:21:46.160 thought.

00:21:46.500 Hold that next

00:21:47.000 thought.

00:21:47.140 Let me just

00:21:47.500 jump in.

00:21:48.040 So if Brad can

00:21:49.160 prove the

00:21:50.140 Pecker-Cohen-Trump

00:21:51.700 meetings happened,

00:21:52.900 the three of them

00:21:53.540 got together and

00:21:54.220 said, these women

00:21:55.300 are a pain in the

00:21:55.960 butt, so is that

00:21:57.140 doorman.

00:21:57.860 We need to pay

00:21:58.520 them off, make

00:21:59.420 them go away.

00:22:00.180 I don't want this

00:22:00.680 coming out before

00:22:01.260 the people go to

00:22:02.140 the polls.

00:22:03.160 You say, as the

00:22:04.240 former head of the

00:22:04.900 FEC, that is not

00:22:06.660 illegal.

00:22:07.680 That's not an

00:22:08.240 illegal contribution

00:22:09.580 to a campaign.

00:22:10.320 That's right.

00:22:10.680 No more than if the

00:22:11.400 four of us sitting

00:22:12.100 here now said, let's

00:22:13.480 hope that we could do

00:22:14.720 everything we can to

00:22:15.880 make this session

00:22:17.060 help Trump get

00:22:17.840 re-elected, right?

00:22:18.820 It still doesn't make

00:22:19.660 us involved in a

00:22:20.780 federal campaign

00:22:21.780 expenditure.

00:22:22.900 Our subjective

00:22:23.520 intent is not

00:22:24.780 really what's going

00:22:25.440 to matter here.

00:22:26.620 It's sort of like

00:22:27.440 you can envision

00:22:28.020 if a person thinks

00:22:29.200 it's a crime to

00:22:30.720 walk back in front

00:22:32.000 of a store and

00:22:33.400 they do that, they

00:22:34.420 still haven't

00:22:34.780 committed a crime.

00:22:35.940 There's nothing

00:22:36.500 illegal about what

00:22:37.480 they're doing.

00:22:37.860 And that's the kind

00:22:38.360 of thing we're

00:22:38.660 talking about.

00:22:39.120 It has to be an

00:22:39.720 objective expenditure.

00:22:41.320 So in this case,

00:22:42.320 even though they

00:22:43.060 might have had the

00:22:43.560 subjective intent,

00:22:44.520 it's not going to

00:22:45.200 be a campaign

00:22:45.940 expenditure.

00:22:46.920 And at that point,

00:22:47.420 I think the entire

00:22:48.100 case pretty much

00:22:49.200 falls apart.

00:22:50.160 Give us an example,

00:22:50.860 Brad, of what they

00:22:51.380 would have had to

00:22:52.220 do to make it an

00:22:55.220 illegal campaign

00:22:56.180 expenditure.

00:22:56.800 Okay.

00:22:57.300 Well, let me talk a

00:22:58.800 touch more to get to

00:22:59.660 that about what maybe

00:23:00.620 is not.

00:23:01.400 So let's take Pecker.

00:23:02.200 He publishes the

00:23:02.880 National Enquirer and

00:23:03.840 we have varying views

00:23:04.940 of the Enquirer and

00:23:06.420 so on as to its

00:23:08.580 reliability and such,

00:23:09.940 right?

00:23:10.420 But it is, I think,

00:23:11.260 by most definitions,

00:23:12.740 press.

00:23:13.560 Okay.

00:23:14.200 You would think that

00:23:15.120 newspapers and other

00:23:15.980 press around the

00:23:16.560 country would be very

00:23:17.400 concerned about defending

00:23:18.520 Pecker because while

00:23:19.700 catch and kill is not a

00:23:21.000 common practice here,

00:23:22.900 it isn't, for example,

00:23:23.860 the United Kingdom.

00:23:25.200 And while our papers

00:23:26.360 don't use catch and

00:23:27.180 kill, do you mean to

00:23:28.360 tell me the Washington

00:23:29.160 Post and the New York

00:23:29.980 Times have not on

00:23:30.980 various occasions spent

00:23:32.340 tens of thousands of

00:23:33.500 dollars investigating a

00:23:34.760 story and then not run

00:23:36.700 it because they thought

00:23:37.580 you were a politician?

00:23:38.420 I work at NBC and the

00:23:40.320 Harvey Weinstein scandal.

00:23:42.140 Arthur represented Harvey

00:23:43.320 at trial, but that's

00:23:44.780 that's what led to the

00:23:46.400 whole breakdown with

00:23:47.080 Ronan Farrell.

00:23:47.820 He had the Harvey

00:23:48.640 Weinstein story.

00:23:49.600 NBC buried it.

00:23:51.680 Many of us believe that

00:23:53.100 was done to protect

00:23:53.880 Matt Lauer.

00:23:55.560 And Ronan Farrell walked

00:23:57.100 out and said, I'm

00:23:58.120 bringing my story and

00:23:59.060 they let him go.

00:24:00.200 And NBC didn't say,

00:24:01.220 okay, you can walk out

00:24:01.980 and take your story to

00:24:02.620 The New Yorker for which

00:24:03.600 you want to pull a

00:24:04.100 surprise and we'll keep

00:24:05.520 working it.

00:24:06.180 We'll keep sending our,

00:24:07.160 you know, our intrepid

00:24:08.340 reporters to try to nail

00:24:09.460 this huge story of one

00:24:10.740 of the biggest producers

00:24:11.340 in Hollywood allegedly

00:24:12.140 harassing all these

00:24:12.840 women.

00:24:13.400 No, they let him go and

00:24:14.840 they let the story go with

00:24:15.760 him and they never,

00:24:16.820 that's, that was a kill.

00:24:18.140 They had the story,

00:24:19.440 they'd caught it, they

00:24:20.580 killed it.

00:24:21.260 And then there was a

00:24:22.540 reporter who said,

00:24:23.360 screw you, I'm going to

00:24:24.960 get this on the pages of

00:24:26.440 a print magazine one way

00:24:27.720 or another and walked out.

00:24:28.940 So that was another

00:24:29.580 version to your point.

00:24:30.720 It's not just the

00:24:31.620 National Enquirer that

00:24:33.260 does it.

00:24:34.100 Right.

00:24:34.760 And so what actually

00:24:35.840 would have been a crime

00:24:36.960 would have been had they

00:24:37.740 paid for this with

00:24:38.840 campaign funds.

00:24:40.140 And again, it doesn't go

00:24:41.000 to the fact that maybe

00:24:42.480 Stormy Daniels wouldn't

00:24:43.800 have asked for money.

00:24:44.780 Maybe Trump wouldn't

00:24:45.700 have agreed to pay her if

00:24:46.520 he were running for

00:24:47.140 office.

00:24:47.600 It goes to what created

00:24:49.060 the obligation, right?

00:24:50.340 And that wasn't anything

00:24:51.140 to do with the campaign.

00:24:52.640 Campaign expenditures are

00:24:53.620 things that no one would

00:24:54.580 spend money on unless

00:24:55.680 you're running for office.

00:24:56.800 So if I buy ads saying

00:24:57.780 vote for Brad Smith for

00:24:58.660 Congress, that's a campaign

00:24:59.900 expenditure, right?

00:25:00.740 If I hire a campaign

00:25:01.920 manager, that's a campaign

00:25:03.220 expenditure.

00:25:04.160 If I set up field

00:25:05.540 offices, you know, nobody

00:25:06.680 sets up campaign field

00:25:07.900 offices unless they're

00:25:09.060 ready for office.

00:25:09.440 Aren't they going to

00:25:09.620 argue?

00:25:10.300 They're going to argue he

00:25:11.420 never would have paid

00:25:12.140 Stormy Daniels $130,000

00:25:13.700 hush money or the other

00:25:15.260 two if you weren't running

00:25:16.860 for office.

00:25:17.480 The affair happened 10

00:25:18.400 years earlier, yes, but

00:25:20.160 her attempted extortion,

00:25:22.400 her attempt to come

00:25:23.420 forward and say, I'm

00:25:24.480 going public unless you

00:25:25.580 pay me, happened right

00:25:26.720 before the election.

00:25:27.380 But exactly, we're not

00:25:29.540 focused on, again, why

00:25:31.000 Trump did it.

00:25:31.760 We're focused on the

00:25:32.540 nature of the

00:25:33.040 expenditure.

00:25:33.940 So people do pay hush

00:25:35.440 money even if they're

00:25:37.180 not running for office.

00:25:38.360 Like I said, we use the

00:25:39.180 example of a suit I used

00:25:40.180 earlier.

00:25:40.480 People do buy clothes

00:25:41.680 even if they went by a

00:25:43.560 $2,000 suit unless they

00:25:45.160 were running for office.

00:25:46.420 So again, it's not the

00:25:47.760 subjective reason why

00:25:49.000 Trump made the payment.

00:25:50.100 It's the actual nature of

00:25:51.440 the payment itself.

00:25:52.720 And that's, you know,

00:25:53.380 it's just common sense,

00:25:54.280 right?

00:25:54.400 And ask people, if you

00:25:55.560 contribute $20 or $50 or

00:25:56.900 $500 or $1,000 to a

00:25:58.760 candidate, whatever you

00:25:59.420 can afford, do you think

00:26:00.720 that's being used to pay

00:26:02.220 hush money?

00:26:02.840 And the answer is no,

00:26:04.040 it's being used to

00:26:05.060 convince an electorate.

00:26:06.520 And so even though, you

00:26:08.260 know, that argument that,

00:26:09.120 well, he wouldn't have

00:26:09.680 paid this otherwise,

00:26:10.800 doesn't matter.

00:26:11.680 Again, imagine my example

00:26:12.720 of the person hiring a

00:26:13.680 divorce attorney to seal

00:26:14.560 up his records.

00:26:15.320 Or imagine any businessman

00:26:16.440 going to his corporate

00:26:17.340 attorney and saying, look,

00:26:18.560 I'm going to run for

00:26:19.080 office.

00:26:19.540 I know these lawsuits

00:26:20.640 against me alleging race

00:26:21.720 discrimination are bogus,

00:26:23.040 but they would really

00:26:23.980 damage my candidacy.

00:26:25.260 So pay these people off

00:26:26.480 quietly with a

00:26:27.200 non-disclosure agreement.

00:26:28.260 It's for the purpose of

00:26:29.620 influencing a campaign,

00:26:30.720 but I don't think anybody

00:26:31.680 would think you can use

00:26:32.800 campaign funds to pay for

00:26:34.080 that rather than business

00:26:35.320 funds.

00:26:35.820 And that's the problem the

00:26:36.780 prosecutor has.

00:26:38.100 I see.

00:26:38.900 So like if you could use

00:26:40.360 campaign funds to pay it,

00:26:42.900 then it's a campaign

00:26:44.820 expenditure.

00:26:45.920 And there's no question he

00:26:47.100 couldn't have used campaign

00:26:48.340 funds to pay off Stormy or

00:26:50.660 these other two.

00:26:52.320 Right, right.

00:26:52.500 You could not have done

00:26:53.040 that.

00:26:53.280 And, and, you know, one

00:26:54.160 more thought for people to

00:26:55.020 bear in mind is, is think

00:26:56.280 about that, you know, the,

00:26:57.340 the fundamental difference

00:26:58.780 between a campaign

00:27:00.360 expenditure and a personal

00:27:02.020 sort of expenditure or bribe,

00:27:03.460 I guess we would say, is

00:27:04.540 that you, the campaign

00:27:05.300 expenditure has to be spent

00:27:06.720 to try to convince people to

00:27:09.180 vote for you.

00:27:09.880 So having a strong line that

00:27:11.620 says you can't spend the

00:27:13.300 money on things that, that

00:27:14.860 are of personal benefit, that

00:27:16.080 are not, again, created by the

00:27:17.740 act of campaigning, such as

00:27:19.320 running an ad saying vote for

00:27:20.840 me, hiring a campaign

00:27:22.220 manager, hiring a lawyer to

00:27:23.800 comply with campaign finance

00:27:25.120 laws.

00:27:25.580 You don't do those things

00:27:26.680 unless you're running for

00:27:27.400 office.

00:27:27.880 And regardless of what Trump

00:27:29.540 personally would have done,

00:27:31.400 right, generally speaking,

00:27:33.200 people do sometimes,

00:27:34.920 unfortunately, pay hush

00:27:36.260 money, even if they're not

00:27:37.780 running for office.

00:27:38.700 And that's why it's not a

00:27:39.580 campaign expense.

00:27:40.800 I see you're kind of coming

00:27:42.200 at it from the other way.

00:27:43.120 Like if you would have had

00:27:43.960 to, like, sometimes people

00:27:46.180 want to write it off as a

00:27:47.540 campaign expenditure,

00:27:48.380 because that's a benefit to

00:27:49.700 them.

00:27:50.240 And you, your group would

00:27:51.900 say, no, that doesn't

00:27:52.820 qualify.

00:27:53.420 No, you can't use your

00:27:54.280 $2,000 suit.

00:27:55.240 No, you can't use this

00:27:56.140 either because it wasn't

00:27:57.260 done solely for your

00:27:58.300 election.

00:27:58.900 And this kind of, it's sort

00:28:00.180 of the reverse analysis

00:28:01.080 and looking at payments

00:28:01.960 that came out of Trump's

00:28:03.140 personal checking account

00:28:04.180 from what we're told.

00:28:05.140 None of this came out of

00:28:06.040 the Trump organization

00:28:07.460 checking account.

00:28:08.600 Go ahead, Brad.

00:28:09.140 And if I can make one more

00:28:10.240 final point, the FEC, when

00:28:12.620 it wrote regulations on this

00:28:13.920 25 years ago, it

00:28:15.560 specifically rejected a

00:28:17.440 formula, which some people

00:28:18.720 advocated, that if something

00:28:20.200 was primarily to influence

00:28:22.160 an election, it should

00:28:23.240 count.

00:28:23.680 Instead, the FEC said, no,

00:28:24.880 it has to be an obligation

00:28:26.180 that only exists because one

00:28:28.460 is campaigning.

00:28:29.600 Not that one wanted to pay

00:28:30.740 it because one is

00:28:31.380 campaigning, but that it

00:28:32.560 only existed because of

00:28:33.920 that.

00:28:34.620 And again, Stormy Daniels

00:28:36.800 had the right to blackmail

00:28:37.980 Donald Trump, whether he

00:28:39.080 was running for office or

00:28:39.940 not.

00:28:40.520 Trump could have paid it

00:28:41.340 whether he was running for

00:28:42.120 office or not.

00:28:43.020 So, you know, people can

00:28:44.020 judge for themselves what

00:28:45.340 they think of the behavior

00:28:46.320 and so on.

00:28:46.920 And that's legitimate

00:28:47.580 things for voters to look

00:28:48.720 at.

00:28:49.340 But in terms of is it a

00:28:50.180 violation of campaign

00:28:51.020 finance law, I just think

00:28:52.480 the answer is no.

00:28:53.120 And I think we wouldn't

00:28:53.980 want it to be yes.

00:28:54.980 That would open up a whole

00:28:55.880 can of worms down the line

00:28:57.080 for future candidates who

00:28:58.400 would start stuffing

00:28:59.100 everything into their

00:29:00.380 campaigns.

00:29:00.840 Well, I'm only doing this

00:29:01.600 because I'm running for

00:29:02.140 office, so therefore it's

00:29:03.000 a campaign expenditure.

00:29:04.560 And then they go out and

00:29:06.280 ask people, give me money

00:29:07.180 so I can make this

00:29:07.840 expenditure.

00:29:08.420 It starts to look much

00:29:09.060 more like a bribe.

00:29:10.020 It's very difficult.

00:29:11.120 Let me ask you one other

00:29:11.760 question before I bring it

00:29:12.540 back in the legal panel.

00:29:13.760 Um, and that is, let's

00:29:15.840 say it was a campaign

00:29:17.240 expenditure.

00:29:17.700 Okay, let's say, let's

00:29:18.460 say everything you just

00:29:19.060 said is rejected.

00:29:20.100 And the court says, no, we

00:29:21.900 see it as a campaign

00:29:22.580 expenditure.

00:29:23.000 It, and, and it

00:29:24.220 exceeded, this is, this

00:29:25.820 was what was suggested by

00:29:26.820 prosecutors.

00:29:27.140 It exceeded the amount

00:29:28.840 that's proper as a campaign

00:29:30.900 donation.

00:29:31.360 Um, I heard Hans von Spakovsky

00:29:34.920 who's at the heritage

00:29:35.980 foundation.

00:29:36.280 Now he used to be on the

00:29:37.200 FEC saying there is no

00:29:39.080 limit on what an individual

00:29:41.080 can donate to his own

00:29:42.440 campaign.

00:29:43.740 And therefore, even if you

00:29:45.200 get to the worst case

00:29:45.880 scenario, which is yes, it

00:29:46.960 was a campaign expenditure.

00:29:48.700 It's still not problematic

00:29:50.040 for Trump because he can

00:29:51.500 donate just as much as he

00:29:52.540 wants to his own campaign.

00:29:54.300 Do you agree with that?

00:29:55.900 Right.

00:29:56.120 I do.

00:29:56.820 And Hans is a super guy that

00:29:58.300 he literally sat in my chair

00:30:00.000 at the FEC, uh, he

00:30:01.460 replaced me at the FEC.

00:30:03.000 Um, he's right that a

00:30:04.220 candidate can give whatever

00:30:04.960 they want.

00:30:05.660 You would still arguably

00:30:07.020 have a claim, which would

00:30:08.340 be that it wasn't reported.

00:30:09.680 So the candidate can spend

00:30:10.820 whatever he wants on his

00:30:11.940 own campaign, but he would

00:30:12.880 have to report it as a

00:30:13.940 campaign expenditure.

00:30:15.500 Um, you know, I don't

00:30:16.800 know that that's a pretty

00:30:17.960 petty offense.

00:30:18.960 So even if you took sort of

00:30:20.240 that best case scenario, uh,

00:30:22.520 I'm not sure that we get

00:30:23.540 very far and it is

00:30:25.380 interesting.

00:30:25.980 I had thought that they

00:30:26.940 might allege that these

00:30:27.940 were corporate funds, which

00:30:29.040 would be an illegal

00:30:29.700 corporate expenditure, but

00:30:30.660 they haven't done that in

00:30:31.600 the indictment.

00:30:32.200 They've, as you said

00:30:33.040 earlier, suggested it's all

00:30:34.120 personal funds.

00:30:35.180 And yes, Trump can

00:30:35.920 contribute as much of his

00:30:36.780 personal money to the

00:30:37.520 campaign as he would like.

00:30:39.160 This is so interesting.

00:30:40.480 Arthur and Dave, isn't this

00:30:41.300 so fascinating, right?

00:30:42.160 To hear right from Brad's

00:30:43.820 mouth.

00:30:43.980 I was very, very informative.

00:30:45.140 And I will tell you, Joe

00:30:46.400 Tacopina has been saying in

00:30:47.840 all of his media appearances

00:30:49.100 that he has consulted with

00:30:50.800 someone with Brad's

00:30:51.840 qualifications and everyone

00:30:53.860 he's spoken to said, there's

00:30:55.680 no crime here.

00:30:56.360 There's no federal election

00:30:57.480 law crime here.

00:30:58.340 There's no crime here.

00:30:59.600 And Bragg is saying, well,

00:31:01.920 that's the crime.

00:31:02.800 Now, I don't know, Megan,

00:31:04.280 did you touch on that, like

00:31:05.180 the tax part of it, this

00:31:06.440 little, they try to, they

00:31:07.760 try to, Bragg is trying to

00:31:08.900 give you a multiple choice.

00:31:10.480 You can choose what crime

00:31:11.800 it is.

00:31:12.560 Maybe it's the election law

00:31:13.600 crime.

00:31:14.400 Maybe it's this tax thing.

00:31:16.360 And I think he had one other

00:31:17.500 thing in his bag of, it was

00:31:19.300 a, it was federal election

00:31:20.620 law, state election law and

00:31:22.620 state tax law.

00:31:23.580 But I think Dave just hit on

00:31:25.360 the state tax law thing

00:31:26.460 accurately, which is the, or

00:31:28.380 the, sorry, the state, um,

00:31:30.620 I can't remember how we,

00:31:31.800 yeah, the state election law

00:31:33.060 because the state election

00:31:33.940 law is really kind of

00:31:34.860 indistinguishable from the

00:31:36.220 federal, uh, one, the state

00:31:38.260 election law.

00:31:38.960 Hold on.

00:31:39.240 I pulled it in front and had

00:31:40.220 it in front of me or a second

00:31:41.340 ago.

00:31:41.680 Um, this is why people think

00:31:43.640 he alleged conspiracy, but he

00:31:45.020 did not allege conspiracy.

00:31:46.980 The New York state election

00:31:47.820 law makes it a crime to

00:31:49.480 conspire to promote a

00:31:51.360 candidacy by unlawful means.

00:31:53.760 So if he's going after Trump

00:31:55.060 on a violation of state

00:31:56.340 election law, if that's the

00:31:57.180 underlying felony, he's got

00:31:58.600 to prove that Trump

00:31:59.640 conspired to promote a

00:32:00.740 candidacy by unlawful means.

00:32:02.120 And that leads us back to

00:32:03.760 Brad.

00:32:04.680 What are the unlawful means?

00:32:06.360 It's, it's like a rope-a-dope.

00:32:07.860 You still need something

00:32:09.100 unlawful.

00:32:09.880 You, you try to promote,

00:32:11.080 promote your candidacy

00:32:12.140 unlawfully.

00:32:13.280 And that again is how, how

00:32:15.480 go ahead, Dave.

00:32:16.520 Oh, thank you.

00:32:17.480 I have a couple of

00:32:18.200 questions here.

00:32:18.700 First, the, uh, indictment

00:32:20.420 does say that the money was

00:32:22.940 reimbursed for the first two

00:32:24.140 months by the Trump trust.

00:32:26.760 The, so it wasn't Trump

00:32:28.160 personally, it was the trust

00:32:29.280 that they put all their

00:32:29.980 assets to when he became

00:32:31.600 president.

00:32:32.180 I don't know if that is a

00:32:33.380 difference, but that's not

00:32:34.540 his own pocket.

00:32:35.460 Then later he switched to

00:32:37.720 paying it out from his own

00:32:38.760 pocket.

00:32:39.140 And number two, my big

00:32:40.840 question though, for Brad

00:32:41.760 is John Edwards was

00:32:44.460 prosecuted by the feds for

00:32:46.940 something just like this.

00:32:48.620 Now I know he wasn't

00:32:49.580 convicted one count.

00:32:50.780 He was acquitted, but the

00:32:51.440 others were home.

00:32:52.420 How did that get to a jury?

00:32:54.620 Because this is the same

00:32:55.660 conduct.

00:32:56.500 The, he had an outside,

00:32:57.700 some rich folks who are

00:32:59.320 paying off his mistress so

00:33:01.700 that he could help win the

00:33:02.940 election.

00:33:03.220 Now in his John Edwards case,

00:33:04.600 it's actually, I think a

00:33:05.520 weaker case than Trump case

00:33:06.700 because they kept paying off

00:33:08.400 the mistress even after the

00:33:09.780 election and he, his wife had

00:33:12.420 cancer and it was clear that

00:33:14.100 she, he didn't want her to

00:33:15.080 know.

00:33:15.300 I think the facts are much

00:33:16.660 stronger for Alvin Bragg to

00:33:18.780 say that this was intended to

00:33:20.440 influence an election.

00:33:21.240 So my question is how then were

00:33:23.320 the feds able to prosecute John

00:33:25.340 Edwards under the same set of

00:33:26.900 facts?

00:33:27.700 Right.

00:33:28.060 That's a, that's a great

00:33:28.840 question.

00:33:29.200 And it's a, it's a valid point

00:33:30.780 and it's probably the best point

00:33:32.080 Bragg has going for him.

00:33:33.160 So a federal judge in North

00:33:34.860 Carolina district judge, let

00:33:36.640 this case go to trial and

00:33:37.920 what is essentially the

00:33:38.860 identical theory of the law.

00:33:40.620 And it's fair to say that a

00:33:41.720 lot of people, you know, you

00:33:42.320 read the law, you said it's

00:33:43.100 for the purpose of influencing

00:33:44.040 the election.

00:33:45.660 Judges are not experts in

00:33:46.860 campaign finance law.

00:33:48.860 Most prosecutors are not.

00:33:50.460 And I think it was just a

00:33:51.200 wrong decision.

00:33:51.840 It was not one that could

00:33:52.580 ever have been appealed.

00:33:53.700 And as you gentlemen, I

00:33:54.400 think you probably know more

00:33:55.480 than I do, you know, a

00:33:57.200 judge, even after it goes to

00:33:58.820 the jury, you know, sometimes

00:34:00.240 the judge will let it go to

00:34:01.060 the jury, hoping the jury

00:34:01.940 will do the right thing.

00:34:02.960 Or after the jury comes in,

00:34:04.580 they'll realize that case

00:34:05.620 should never have gone to

00:34:06.380 the jury and they can still,

00:34:07.520 you know, take the case

00:34:08.680 away.

00:34:09.260 So, you know, there's no

00:34:10.920 appeal there.

00:34:11.560 It's no precedent.

00:34:12.420 The Supreme Court has never

00:34:13.280 decided this exact issue,

00:34:15.060 never interpreted this

00:34:15.880 particular part of the

00:34:16.680 statute, nor is there much

00:34:18.000 other court precedent on it.

00:34:19.520 But there is a lot of

00:34:20.600 Supreme Court precedent

00:34:21.600 emphasizing that idea that

00:34:23.560 you have to use objective

00:34:24.840 standards for campaign

00:34:26.460 finance law, not subjective

00:34:28.340 standards.

00:34:29.200 And as I say, it's also

00:34:30.020 supported by the FEC

00:34:31.080 regulations that

00:34:32.160 interpreted the statute.

00:34:33.540 And I think it's the sort

00:34:35.020 of the only logical

00:34:35.800 reading of the statute

00:34:36.680 because otherwise, you

00:34:38.420 know, take a person like

00:34:39.520 Hillary Clinton, right?

00:34:40.560 One could at least

00:34:41.340 theoretically argue that

00:34:42.400 everything she did between

00:34:43.600 1976 and 2016 was for the

00:34:46.620 purpose of influencing her

00:34:47.760 election as president.

00:34:49.080 You know, and I kind of

00:34:49.720 exaggerate there, but not

00:34:50.740 too much.

00:34:51.560 A lot of things people do

00:34:53.280 are for the purpose of

00:34:54.480 influencing their election

00:34:55.440 and that doesn't make them

00:34:56.360 campaign expenditures.

00:34:57.280 We need an objective line

00:34:58.540 there.

00:34:59.740 This is so interesting.

00:35:01.600 So and then on the tax,

00:35:03.240 the state tax law, which

00:35:04.180 was the only other thing

00:35:04.900 Bragg mentioned.

00:35:06.060 I mean, that to me seems

00:35:07.300 like such a farce.

00:35:08.100 And I think there's a

00:35:08.640 reason he threw it in there

00:35:09.620 as just a throwaway.

00:35:10.560 It's really not emphasized

00:35:11.300 at all in the indictment or

00:35:12.620 his statement of facts.

00:35:13.500 And he seems to be saying

00:35:14.980 that because the way they

00:35:16.900 paid off Michael Cohen, he

00:35:18.240 paid Stormy 130, Karen

00:35:19.880 McDougal 150, whatever the

00:35:21.800 total was or 30.

00:35:23.000 The total number that he

00:35:24.520 paid was 180 and they

00:35:26.700 doubled that and added a

00:35:28.720 $60,000 bonus on top of

00:35:30.700 it.

00:35:31.220 And that's what they repaid

00:35:32.440 Michael Cohen over the

00:35:33.300 course of 12 plus months

00:35:34.620 saying reimbursement for

00:35:36.380 legal expenses.

00:35:37.500 And the reason they

00:35:38.000 doubled it is because we

00:35:39.120 all know we pay 50 percent

00:35:40.260 in taxes in New York City.

00:35:41.780 So they wanted to make

00:35:42.720 sure he was whole at the

00:35:43.800 end of it because he paid

00:35:45.200 it out of his own account

00:35:46.540 and then it was paid back

00:35:47.220 to him out of Trump's

00:35:47.920 account.

00:35:49.400 So that's so even under

00:35:51.200 Alvin Bragg's theory,

00:35:52.420 Arthur, the other

00:35:53.000 state wasn't deprived of

00:35:54.620 one dollar.

00:35:55.120 It's not like they

00:35:55.660 committed a tax fraud and

00:35:57.360 New York State didn't get

00:35:58.400 its money.

00:35:59.800 Actually, Cohen wound up

00:36:01.540 putting more into the New

00:36:02.940 York State coffers by

00:36:04.480 counting this as as

00:36:06.260 salary, right, as

00:36:07.580 reimbursement for a

00:36:08.540 legal expense.

00:36:09.580 So where's the damage

00:36:10.980 again?

00:36:11.200 Like this is like another

00:36:12.540 crime in search of a

00:36:13.760 victim.

00:36:14.980 You just hit the nail on

00:36:17.460 the head.

00:36:17.880 And that's what I've been

00:36:18.500 saying nonstop.

00:36:19.500 And that's really why I'm

00:36:20.380 sad.

00:36:20.720 And, you know, in my law

00:36:22.000 firm, I have two former

00:36:23.280 Manhattan DAs, like very

00:36:24.520 former.

00:36:25.620 They're very proud of that

00:36:26.760 office.

00:36:27.520 If you're going to bring the

00:36:30.340 first case against the

00:36:31.660 president of the United

00:36:32.780 States, not only the past

00:36:34.000 president, I think it's the

00:36:35.040 guy who was the leading

00:36:35.740 candidate for his own party

00:36:37.420 to become the next

00:36:38.620 president of the United

00:36:39.440 States.

00:36:40.760 You've got to do better than

00:36:42.460 this.

00:36:43.040 There's not going to be one

00:36:44.020 family member sitting

00:36:45.340 behind the prosecutor during

00:36:47.460 any of these proceedings

00:36:48.780 saying, thank you, Mr.

00:36:50.080 Bragg, for doing justice

00:36:51.140 for my family.

00:36:52.120 There's not going to be

00:36:52.660 anyone from the IRS saying,

00:36:54.580 thank you, Mr.

00:36:55.180 Bragg.

00:36:55.440 You brought $8 million in.

00:36:56.960 We're going to be able to

00:36:57.940 pay all these school

00:36:59.880 teachers.

00:37:00.560 It is a victimless crime.

00:37:02.460 And the fact that you

00:37:03.500 have to have legal experts

00:37:04.880 and FEC experts to

00:37:06.740 dissect this indictment,

00:37:09.640 it's just like, I mean,

00:37:11.180 look, thank God I have

00:37:12.560 Judge Barry Cummins, who's

00:37:13.540 my partner, who's a

00:37:14.620 scholar.

00:37:15.460 I mean, we sat here for an

00:37:16.420 hour, like trying to

00:37:17.740 figure out what this

00:37:18.840 indictment really means.

00:37:20.680 That is not the type of

00:37:21.960 case you should be

00:37:23.000 bringing.

00:37:23.520 A case of first

00:37:24.380 impression.

00:37:25.380 Cy Vance never brought

00:37:26.720 the case.

00:37:27.180 They asked Bragg that in

00:37:28.900 the news conference.

00:37:30.220 How come Cy Vance didn't

00:37:31.660 have it?

00:37:32.060 And he kind of had, he

00:37:32.860 said, well, I wanted to

00:37:34.440 do a more, and they

00:37:35.440 asked Bragg, you didn't

00:37:36.520 bring it when you first

00:37:37.320 came in.

00:37:38.160 He goes, well, I wanted

00:37:38.760 to do a more thorough

00:37:39.760 investigation and new

00:37:41.300 evidence has come to

00:37:42.180 light.

00:37:42.560 No new evidence has come

00:37:43.580 to light.

00:37:44.100 It's the exact same thing

00:37:45.200 that they had.

00:37:46.180 And I don't know what

00:37:47.140 happened.

00:37:47.420 I don't know if they got

00:37:48.440 such an easy conviction

00:37:49.560 on the Trump

00:37:50.880 corporation case.

00:37:52.620 I don't know if George

00:37:54.140 Soros picked up the phone

00:37:55.300 and said, you know what?

00:37:56.700 Trump seems to be surging

00:37:58.060 and we got to put a

00:38:00.260 speed bump in front of

00:38:01.120 him.

00:38:01.440 Maybe you want to take a

00:38:02.220 second look at that case.

00:38:03.680 I don't know.

00:38:04.320 Or if Alvin Bragg wants to

00:38:05.560 figure out if this is his

00:38:06.600 way to become Senator

00:38:08.140 Bragg or United States

00:38:09.560 Supreme Court Justice

00:38:10.360 Bragg.

00:38:11.100 I don't know.

00:38:11.780 But it makes no sense

00:38:13.440 from a former prosecutor in

00:38:15.180 New York, surrounded by

00:38:16.580 former prosecutors in New

00:38:17.820 York, who's been a criminal

00:38:18.900 defense attorney for 25

00:38:20.220 years and is a diehard New

00:38:21.980 Yorker.

00:38:22.400 This sucks.

00:38:24.140 I like it.

00:38:25.140 Give it to us in New York

00:38:25.980 language.

00:38:26.760 Now, wait.

00:38:27.400 Dave raised this point the

00:38:28.280 other day that Cy Vance

00:38:30.140 said, I stood down, the

00:38:32.240 previous DA, because the

00:38:34.840 feds came to me and said,

00:38:36.100 stand down.

00:38:36.840 And so I thought they were

00:38:38.200 going to take it.

00:38:39.060 And that's that's why I

00:38:40.380 stood down.

00:38:41.020 Now, he still could have

00:38:42.460 brought it.

00:38:42.960 Alvin Bragg could have

00:38:44.740 brought it.

00:38:45.340 Are you persuaded by that,

00:38:46.680 Arthur?

00:38:46.900 Because that's a lot of the

00:38:47.820 left yesterday where they

00:38:49.260 were sure to raise that

00:38:50.480 point.

00:38:50.760 They love the fact that Cy

00:38:52.040 Vance said he was told to

00:38:52.860 stand down by the feds.

00:38:54.660 Oh, well, I think two

00:38:55.420 things.

00:38:55.740 Number one, I know Cy Vance

00:38:57.660 pretty well.

00:38:59.040 He wasn't exactly a

00:39:00.180 prosecutor to put his neck

00:39:01.540 out on the line too much.

00:39:02.720 And he knew that if he

00:39:03.800 brought this kind of case,

00:39:04.960 he would be getting the

00:39:06.120 storm that that Bragg is

00:39:07.920 countering.

00:39:09.560 And I don't think that's how

00:39:10.580 he wanted to leave office.

00:39:11.740 Number one.

00:39:12.400 Number two, there were

00:39:13.460 two federal prosecutors

00:39:14.680 who looked at this case.

00:39:16.120 One under the Trump

00:39:16.860 administration and one

00:39:18.060 under the Biden

00:39:18.760 administration.

00:39:20.060 And neither of them

00:39:21.180 went forward.

00:39:22.520 As you know, the Southern

00:39:23.440 District of New York,

00:39:24.640 unlike maybe the Manhattan

00:39:25.540 District Attorney's

00:39:26.320 Office, they're not shy

00:39:27.600 about going after the

00:39:28.920 big guys.

00:39:29.800 They do it all the time.

00:39:30.860 That's how they make

00:39:31.980 their name.

00:39:32.980 So I think they looked

00:39:34.480 at this case and they

00:39:35.360 said, you know what?

00:39:36.320 There's just not enough

00:39:37.620 there there for this

00:39:39.320 particular case.

00:39:40.360 Mr.

00:39:40.600 Trump may have some big

00:39:41.360 problems in Georgia.

00:39:42.400 In Mar-a-Lago regarding

00:39:44.140 January 6th, those may be

00:39:46.120 some other real cases, but

00:39:47.500 this is not the case that

00:39:48.520 should have been brought.

00:39:49.540 A case of first

00:39:50.680 impression.

00:39:51.440 This judge, Judge

00:39:52.960 Bershon, has a lot on his

00:39:54.820 plate.

00:39:55.520 He got to he better have a

00:39:56.680 big set of cojones when he

00:39:58.700 digests the law, because I

00:40:01.180 think he's going to have some

00:40:02.000 really tough decisions to

00:40:03.700 make.

00:40:03.880 This is the kind of case

00:40:04.720 that's on a knife's edge, a

00:40:05.920 knife's edge.

00:40:06.600 And one judge could rule one

00:40:08.040 way and a different judge could

00:40:09.180 rule another way.

00:40:09.860 And obviously, there's going

00:40:10.880 to be a lot, a lot of

00:40:11.740 pressure on this judge to

00:40:13.840 not, in my opinion, to not

00:40:16.680 dismiss this case.

00:40:18.020 But there may be case law or

00:40:21.160 lack of case law that puts

00:40:23.000 him in the position where he

00:40:23.920 has to dismiss this case.

00:40:25.580 He has to dismiss it if there

00:40:27.600 is not the intent to cover up

00:40:29.900 an underlying crime.

00:40:31.460 He has no choice.

00:40:32.980 The statute of limitations

00:40:34.120 will have run on what will

00:40:35.840 then be a misdemeanor.

00:40:37.140 And so finding the underlying

00:40:39.080 crime is critical to Alvin

00:40:42.200 Brad.

00:40:42.360 Michael Cohen, I think, Megan,

00:40:43.740 I think that's going to be

00:40:44.660 they're going to have to rely

00:40:45.880 on Michael Cohen's testimony

00:40:47.400 and said Cohen's going to have

00:40:49.140 to have testified in the grand

00:40:50.520 jury.

00:40:51.160 What's he going to say?

00:40:51.880 Donald Trump told me A,

00:40:52.520 told me B, told me C.

00:40:54.520 Even no matter what he says.

00:40:56.140 I mean, Brad is telling us the

00:40:57.260 subjective intent or what's in

00:40:58.660 Donald Trump's.

00:40:59.420 If Donald Trump said to

00:41:00.920 Michael Cohen, get rid of

00:41:02.460 Stormy and McDougal and the

00:41:04.700 doorman, I they're going to

00:41:06.340 ruin my chances of being

00:41:07.420 president.

00:41:08.040 Pay him off.

00:41:09.000 Brad is telling us that

00:41:10.600 doesn't do it.

00:41:12.460 Well, there was a federal

00:41:13.340 judge who said differently,

00:41:14.940 and that's why John Edwards

00:41:15.920 was a defendant and was close

00:41:18.340 to getting convicted.

00:41:19.120 There were many counts that

00:41:20.240 were hung and the feds decide

00:41:22.040 not to pursue the trial again.

00:41:23.400 So, look, Brad knows more

00:41:24.720 about election law than anyone

00:41:26.340 I know.

00:41:26.800 But I guess got to say a federal

00:41:28.320 judge did say the opposite.

00:41:31.060 And if I could also add something,

00:41:32.740 Megan, I first the part I agree

00:41:34.260 with Arthur about is I do wish

00:41:36.360 that my counterpart, the D.A.,

00:41:37.780 had had done more with this

00:41:39.880 indictment.

00:41:40.520 And it wasn't it's incomplete.

00:41:42.120 It should reveal the details of

00:41:44.620 what the second crime is.

00:41:46.340 I don't like playing hide the ball,

00:41:48.060 especially with something so

00:41:49.120 politically charged.

00:41:50.160 So I agree with him on that.

00:41:52.260 But I have to disagree on a

00:41:53.540 couple of things.

00:41:54.140 First, Cy Vance said that the

00:41:56.820 reason why he didn't pursue

00:41:57.860 this was he was told to stand

00:41:58.980 down and we state prosecutors

00:42:00.340 deferred to the feds.

00:42:01.540 He assumed the feds were

00:42:02.500 taking up the case.

00:42:03.660 They didn't.

00:42:04.500 This happens all the time

00:42:05.340 when the feds come to us and

00:42:06.420 say, hey, stand out.

00:42:07.860 We're going to do this.

00:42:08.640 OK, no problem.

00:42:09.460 That's how it works.

00:42:10.620 Also, the two prosecutors who

00:42:12.300 left Pomerantz and Dunn,

00:42:13.960 they left because they wanted

00:42:15.980 to pursue the financial crime

00:42:17.420 case that Trump had

00:42:18.700 overvalued his assets and had

00:42:20.920 committed financial fraud.

00:42:22.340 And Bragg said, no, there's

00:42:23.640 not enough.

00:42:24.280 They're there.

00:42:24.940 Not enough evidence.

00:42:25.700 So we can't do it.

00:42:26.560 So they left, according to

00:42:28.480 what I have seen.

00:42:30.000 This case is the zombie

00:42:31.240 theory.

00:42:32.080 It wasn't right when when

00:42:33.440 Bragg took office.

00:42:34.720 It died.

00:42:35.720 It came back.

00:42:36.600 And he said, now there's

00:42:38.080 more evidence.

00:42:38.640 So I don't think it's quite

00:42:40.220 accurate to say that those

00:42:41.120 guys left because that he

00:42:42.460 wouldn't pursue the zombie

00:42:43.740 case was because of the

00:42:44.680 financial crime case.

00:42:45.780 And then as far as

00:42:47.560 this is a victimless crime.

00:42:49.300 Look, the argument is that

00:42:50.900 the voters were deprived of

00:42:52.260 knowing important information.

00:42:53.860 That's why it's an election

00:42:54.700 law crime.

00:42:55.160 That's why it's a crime.

00:42:56.040 Have they known this

00:42:57.140 information?

00:42:57.820 No, show me the statute.

00:42:59.000 What statute says the voters

00:43:00.280 get to know everything?

00:43:01.180 Where's that statute, Brad?

00:43:02.460 Does that exist?

00:43:04.680 Well, that's what Bragg is

00:43:05.920 saying.

00:43:06.680 David is making Bragg's

00:43:08.040 argument.

00:43:08.500 And the thing is, from a

00:43:09.360 lawyer's point of view, these

00:43:10.960 crimes took place in 2017,

00:43:13.300 right?

00:43:13.500 Because the crime is writing

00:43:14.800 the check.

00:43:15.600 The crime is not the actual

00:43:16.880 deprivation.

00:43:17.860 The deprivation happened in

00:43:19.000 2016.

00:43:20.220 And so, right, that's when the

00:43:21.340 vote took place.

00:43:23.500 Then we're way past the

00:43:24.380 statute.

00:43:24.780 That's what makes sense.

00:43:26.160 Then we're way past the

00:43:27.220 statute.

00:43:27.760 And David, if I just might say

00:43:28.780 something, Bob Morgenthau, when

00:43:30.360 he was the district attorney in

00:43:31.400 Manhattan, there were plenty of

00:43:32.760 times when the feds would come

00:43:34.220 in and say, step down and we're

00:43:35.940 doing this.

00:43:36.360 And Bob Morgenthau said, uh-uh.

00:43:37.860 No, this is the Manhattan DAs.

00:43:38.840 And by the way, can I just say, so

00:43:40.220 anyway, stand by, because I got to

00:43:41.260 get a break in.

00:43:41.980 But can I just say this?

00:43:42.820 The other thing is, so was

00:43:44.760 Cy Vance told to stand down under

00:43:46.120 the Bill Barr AG's office?

00:43:49.760 Yes, it would have been under

00:43:50.660 Bill Barr.

00:43:51.360 Correct.

00:43:51.560 Okay, so that's all right.

00:43:52.620 So then the evil Trump

00:43:53.600 administration decided not to go

00:43:54.860 after this.

00:43:55.280 I get it.

00:43:55.960 But then Merrick Garland took

00:43:57.020 over.

00:43:57.680 And Merrick Garland, a guy who

00:43:58.800 worked as assistant AG under

00:44:00.120 Merrick Garland, was on MSNBC

00:44:01.360 yesterday.

00:44:01.900 I tweeted it out if you want to

00:44:02.820 see it with your own eyes.

00:44:03.620 Uh, went on MSNBC and greatly

00:44:06.100 disappointed the panel by saying

00:44:07.700 Merrick Garland rejected bringing

00:44:09.920 these Alvin Bragg claims because

00:44:12.240 they are, quote, relatively trivial

00:44:14.660 and insignificant, relatively trivial

00:44:17.700 and insignificant as a judge by

00:44:20.080 Merrick Garland, according to a guy

00:44:22.380 who worked as the assistant AG in

00:44:24.780 the office.

00:44:25.360 And that's that's what everyone's

00:44:26.980 saying, that even if the worst

00:44:29.140 case scenario, they exist.

00:44:30.440 They are relatively trivial, trivial

00:44:32.500 and insignificant and not

00:44:33.740 something you cross the Rubicon to

00:44:35.280 use the term everybody's been

00:44:36.180 using of indicting not just a

00:44:38.100 former president for the first

00:44:39.020 time ever, but the forerunner for

00:44:41.120 the GOP nomination in the

00:44:42.260 existing presidential race.

00:44:44.320 Okay, so that's where we are.

00:44:45.380 Quick pause.

00:44:46.360 Got to pay some bills.

00:44:47.380 Be right back.

00:44:47.980 Arthur, Dave and Brad after this.

00:44:49.860 Your business doesn't move in a

00:44:51.380 straight line.

00:44:52.420 Some days bring growth.

00:44:53.900 Others bring challenges.

00:44:55.520 But what if you or a partner

00:44:56.840 needs to step away when the

00:44:58.680 unexpected happens?

00:45:00.120 Count on Canada Life's flexible

00:45:02.020 life and health insurance to help

00:45:03.820 your business keep working, even

00:45:05.400 when you can't.

00:45:06.580 Don't let life's challenges stand

00:45:08.360 in the way of your success.

00:45:10.020 Protect what you've built today.

00:45:12.080 Visit CanadaLife.com slash

00:45:13.940 business protection to learn more.

00:45:16.200 Canada Life.

00:45:17.400 Insurance.

00:45:18.360 Investments.

00:45:19.060 Advice.

00:45:23.420 So Arthur, you were there yesterday.

00:45:25.140 When last we spoke, you weren't sure

00:45:26.320 you were going to get in.

00:45:27.100 What did you see?

00:45:28.060 It's a day I'll never forget.

00:45:29.260 I mean, and I literally started

00:45:31.480 interning there in that building in

00:45:32.980 1990.

00:45:33.640 My father worked there on the Frank

00:45:35.060 Hogan.

00:45:35.480 First time I walked in, it was like

00:45:36.660 1973.

00:45:38.220 But it was, I was there for DSK.

00:45:40.560 That was DSK.

00:45:41.500 If you remember, that was the biggest

00:45:43.400 media turnout I ever saw because it

00:45:45.240 was international.

00:45:46.360 There were people there.

00:45:47.220 Oh, the guy who allegedly raped the

00:45:49.380 maid?

00:45:50.440 Exactly.

00:45:51.060 Yes.

00:45:51.460 The International Monetary Fund guy?

00:45:53.580 Right.

00:45:53.900 Exactly.

00:45:54.280 He was going to be president of the

00:45:55.140 International Monetary Fund.

00:45:56.400 And there were people there literally

00:45:57.740 all over the world.

00:45:59.380 And then Harvey, which I handled, was

00:46:01.120 probably second to that.

00:46:02.320 That was pretty nuts.

00:46:03.900 But yesterday was, I mean, there was

00:46:05.660 more media than there than it was at

00:46:07.240 the Super Bowl.

00:46:07.960 And I don't think I'm exaggerating when

00:46:09.420 I say that.

00:46:10.100 It was insane.

00:46:11.840 But the only reason why I was able to

00:46:13.260 get in there was, number one, we

00:46:15.120 represent, my law firm represents the

00:46:16.620 New York State Court Officers Union.

00:46:18.700 Number two, Megan, it's the exact same

00:46:21.000 crew in terms of law enforcement

00:46:23.480 personnel in the courthouse from Harvey

00:46:25.720 Weinstein's case.

00:46:26.540 So I know all of them.

00:46:27.540 And you know me, Megan.

00:46:28.740 During the trial, I was bringing them

00:46:29.920 loaves of Italian bread from Brooklyn

00:46:31.460 and Buttsdale and all that stuff.

00:46:33.260 So I have a great, and they were

00:46:34.660 fantastic, the New York State

00:46:36.020 officers.

00:46:36.300 I wrote a beautiful letter to them.

00:46:37.560 So they're very, very nice to me.

00:46:39.200 So I was able to go right there.

00:46:41.400 I mean, I didn't, the Secret Service

00:46:42.940 didn't let me get anywhere near the

00:46:43.980 president.

00:46:45.060 But, you know, just, I mean, it really

00:46:47.800 was a historic moment.

00:46:49.460 And it did make me happy.

00:46:51.320 I wasn't happy.

00:46:52.080 You know, my dad, who was a

00:46:54.440 prosecutor under Frank Hogan, who was

00:46:56.500 the DA, even more so than

00:46:58.200 Morgenthau, you know, he always had

00:47:00.340 the term, you know, you don't play

00:47:01.360 politics with people's lives.

00:47:02.900 And that's really what was going on

00:47:04.500 here.

00:47:05.860 The logistics, the amount of money

00:47:08.980 that Alvin Bragg spent yesterday or

00:47:11.620 was caused to spend.

00:47:12.920 He estimated 200 million.

00:47:14.720 All the cops, he had to divert to this

00:47:17.340 instead of fighting crime.

00:47:18.920 Correct.

00:47:19.200 Correct.

00:47:19.680 Correct.

00:47:20.060 If you took that energy, the brain

00:47:22.340 power, all of that, and you put it

00:47:24.400 into Brownsville and Brooklyn or East

00:47:27.920 New York, like the worst neighborhoods,

00:47:29.280 you said, OK, we're going to do all

00:47:30.780 of this.

00:47:31.040 We'll put all this in here.

00:47:31.940 You'd solve all the crime.

00:47:32.980 You'd solve all the issues of the world.

00:47:34.680 And the fact that the judge, they asked,

00:47:36.500 can you waive Donald Trump's appearance

00:47:37.720 on December 4th?

00:47:38.840 They just said, no, I'd like him here.

00:47:40.580 Why?

00:47:40.920 To have this craziness once again, just

00:47:43.560 to hear the answer to the motions.

00:47:45.000 But then the judge hedged and said, well,

00:47:47.660 write me a letter if there's some

00:47:48.880 scheduling issues.

00:47:49.980 But it was a historic day in New York

00:47:52.340 City.

00:47:52.680 I'm so glad everyone has been safe so far.

00:47:55.460 I hope no nutjob gets any stupid ideas

00:47:57.960 about going down to the courthouse and

00:47:59.680 doing anything silly.

00:48:00.640 But kudos to New York City because it

00:48:03.500 was really handled very well considering

00:48:05.980 everything that was going on.

00:48:07.400 It was, but it's such a waste.

00:48:09.260 It's like, what a waste of resources on

00:48:11.580 this inflated misdemeanor, which, as we've

00:48:15.400 been discussing, is based on a lie.

00:48:17.520 There's nothing to inflate it with.

00:48:20.300 How could we divert all those cops and

00:48:22.380 spend all that city money on what's

00:48:24.700 essentially a misdemeanor that could

00:48:26.540 potentially result in probation?

00:48:28.940 This is how rabid Alvin Bragg is.

00:48:33.000 And while normally, honestly, while normally

00:48:34.660 I'd be like, this is terrible.

00:48:35.720 The things that Trump is tweeting about

00:48:37.340 him and what his wife and I says,

00:48:39.400 normally my instincts are protect the

00:48:40.700 DA.

00:48:41.120 He's made it personal.

00:48:42.860 He's crossed a line that no other DA

00:48:44.760 would cross.

00:48:45.780 So there is a piece of me that's like,

00:48:47.400 you asked for this.

00:48:48.800 You crossed the line first.

00:48:50.280 It wasn't Trump.

00:48:51.300 I got to leave it at that.

00:48:52.100 I know Arthur's got to peace out.

00:48:53.200 But Dave and Brad stay with us.

00:48:54.300 Great to see you, my friend Arthur.

00:48:55.900 I want some of that mozzarella as well.

00:48:58.700 We'll be right back because we've got a

00:48:59.540 few more topics to get to.

00:49:00.720 34 felony counts of falsifying business

00:49:06.020 records in the first degree.

00:49:08.000 It is a felony to falsify business

00:49:10.420 records with intent to defraud and an

00:49:13.480 intent to conceal another crime.

00:49:15.920 34 false statements made to cover up

00:49:20.140 other crimes.

00:49:21.600 And they were done to conceal another

00:49:23.200 crime.

00:49:23.700 The indictment doesn't specify that

00:49:31.480 because the law does not so require.

00:49:33.540 Oh, it's pin the tail on the crime.

00:49:36.120 Pin the tail on the felony.

00:49:38.280 We'll figure it out.

00:49:39.480 Just place it anywhere.

00:49:40.920 I don't have to tell you.

00:49:41.880 Na, na, na, boo, boo.

00:49:43.680 That's such an unbelievable moment in

00:49:45.520 the case of this magnitude yesterday.

00:49:47.620 Joining me still, Palm Beach County

00:49:49.000 State Attorney Dave Ehrenberg and

00:49:51.020 former FEC Federal Election

00:49:52.700 Commission Commissioner Brad Smith.

00:49:55.380 Remain with me.

00:49:56.020 Arthur's off to his day job.

00:49:58.760 OK, so again, you have to be you

00:50:01.720 have to you have to falsify the

00:50:03.500 business records to it with the

00:50:04.900 intent of covering up a crime.

00:50:06.980 So we kind of went right with.

00:50:09.200 Yeah, Trump intended to buy off

00:50:12.440 these women and buy off the doorman.

00:50:14.060 OK, let's say he intended it.

00:50:15.540 And he intended it for the worst

00:50:17.140 purpose, which is to make sure he

00:50:19.240 got elected.

00:50:20.060 And, you know, you heard Brad saying

00:50:21.080 that's that's not going to do it.

00:50:23.700 Trump's lawyers appear like they are

00:50:25.420 going to argue not only that,

00:50:27.860 but he had no intent because he did

00:50:29.720 not know about this.

00:50:31.160 This is a Michael Cohen operation.

00:50:34.020 And Michael Cohen, I mean, I can speak

00:50:35.080 to this personally.

00:50:36.120 He really was Trump's conciliary.

00:50:38.180 You know, he was not a good man.

00:50:40.440 I think everybody knows that now he's

00:50:42.020 he's a convicted felon.

00:50:43.280 He is a serial liar.

00:50:44.900 He's lied both ways.

00:50:46.300 He tried to cut a deal with the feds.

00:50:47.520 He's trying to reverse himself on that

00:50:48.780 now, too.

00:50:49.240 I mean, he's just you cannot take his

00:50:50.720 word.

00:50:51.160 Never mind to the bank.

00:50:52.160 You can't take it.

00:50:52.780 You can't put in a piggy bank.

00:50:53.760 You can't get anywhere near a bank

00:50:54.720 with Michael Cohen's word.

00:50:55.900 But he's critical to this prosecution.

00:50:58.380 And I played in part

00:51:00.560 the tape that was released by

00:51:02.480 Michael Cohen's lawyer,

00:51:03.360 Lanny Davis,

00:51:03.960 to CNN and MSNBC

00:51:05.960 played it yesterday as well,

00:51:07.040 where Trump's saying, OK,

00:51:09.200 he's saying, I got to set up the

00:51:10.460 the fund we discussed with David.

00:51:12.380 One presumes

00:51:13.080 David Pecker.

00:51:15.180 I think he mentions Allen Weisselberg

00:51:16.640 on it.

00:51:17.780 And Trump says paying cash.

00:51:19.560 OK, I don't know what that's telling us.

00:51:21.140 There's a discussion.

00:51:21.980 Sure.

00:51:22.240 It talks about names that we've heard.

00:51:24.120 I'm not sure what that fund was

00:51:26.020 or whether Trump understood

00:51:27.040 what's going on.

00:51:27.880 They don't have to prove all that.

00:51:29.200 But they are going to argue,

00:51:30.620 I think, Dave,

00:51:31.600 that Trump did not know

00:51:32.740 about this whole deal,

00:51:34.040 that Michael Cohen is making it up

00:51:36.260 because he's a liar

00:51:37.320 and he really,

00:51:38.360 really hates

00:51:40.240 Trump.

00:51:41.840 And one of the last witnesses

00:51:42.980 the grand jury heard from

00:51:44.260 was this guy, Bob Costello,

00:51:45.860 who was brought in

00:51:47.840 as a Michael Cohen

00:51:49.460 legal advisor.

00:51:50.840 Though the way I read it,

00:51:52.000 tell me if you disagree,

00:51:53.140 he was kind of

00:51:53.940 both Michael Cohen's

00:51:55.800 and Donald Trump's

00:51:57.060 legal advisor

00:51:57.920 in the beginning.

00:51:59.520 So he had that sort of

00:52:00.800 divided loyalty

00:52:01.560 when things started to go south.

00:52:04.240 And, you know,

00:52:04.680 it was like Trump at that point

00:52:05.720 was already president

00:52:06.420 and they were kind of like,

00:52:07.940 all right,

00:52:08.640 let's make sure we're all covered.

00:52:10.240 That's how I read it.

00:52:11.460 Anyway, they got him on tape.

00:52:12.840 But this is what

00:52:13.960 Bob Costello says

00:52:15.400 Michael Cohen was saying

00:52:17.040 as the law enforcement

00:52:19.560 was starting to circle in on him

00:52:21.060 and he knew

00:52:22.000 not just this alleged crime,

00:52:23.720 but many other alleged crimes

00:52:25.080 that he's pleaded guilty to

00:52:26.260 might come back

00:52:27.380 to haunt him.

00:52:28.160 Listen.

00:52:29.560 What do you have

00:52:30.500 on Donald Trump?

00:52:31.420 And that's when he started

00:52:32.720 with the same litany

00:52:33.900 that he used

00:52:34.660 for the rest of the two hours.

00:52:36.200 I swear to God, Bob,

00:52:37.540 I don't have anything

00:52:38.500 on Donald Trump.

00:52:39.440 But the point is

00:52:40.700 when somebody is really thinking

00:52:42.680 of committing suicide

00:52:43.680 and you're offering them

00:52:45.420 a legal way out of this,

00:52:47.120 if he had any information

00:52:48.540 about Donald Trump,

00:52:49.700 that would have been

00:52:50.640 the one time

00:52:51.260 even for a serial liar

00:52:52.680 like Michael Cohen

00:52:53.600 to fess up and say,

00:52:56.040 well, I know this or that

00:52:57.360 because I want to save

00:52:59.180 my own hide.

00:53:00.160 But he didn't do that.

00:53:01.900 Michael Cohen,

00:53:02.580 who, as I said before,

00:53:03.640 was pacing back and forth,

00:53:05.280 would suddenly stop

00:53:06.660 in the middle of whatever

00:53:07.560 he was talking about

00:53:08.600 and turn and point

00:53:10.160 his finger at us

00:53:11.080 and say,

00:53:11.700 I want you guys

00:53:12.660 to understand

00:53:13.380 I will do whatever

00:53:15.020 the F I have to do.

00:53:17.040 I will never

00:53:17.980 spend a day in jail.

00:53:20.640 So, David,

00:53:21.440 it's to the point now

00:53:22.040 where people like

00:53:22.660 Alan Dershowitz

00:53:23.980 are saying there is

00:53:24.860 no way Alvin Bragg

00:53:26.160 can put Michael Cohen

00:53:27.340 on the stand.

00:53:28.960 Do you agree?

00:53:30.280 I would disagree

00:53:31.180 with my former law professor.

00:53:32.600 I don't know if Brad

00:53:33.180 had Dershowitz

00:53:34.160 at law school,

00:53:35.520 but didn't every lawyer

00:53:36.760 who went through?

00:53:37.560 Harvard, have him?

00:53:40.600 No?

00:53:41.620 No.

00:53:42.600 25% would be able

00:53:44.400 to get him,

00:53:44.960 and I was one

00:53:45.560 of those lucky few.

00:53:46.760 So, I disagree with him

00:53:48.760 because the prosecutors

00:53:50.820 have corroboration.

00:53:52.420 They've got tapes.

00:53:53.500 They've got David Pecker.

00:53:54.900 And the other thing

00:53:55.520 is this.

00:53:55.860 This is important.

00:53:57.180 If you are to believe

00:53:58.160 Robert Costello

00:53:58.960 and what he apparently

00:53:59.760 told the grand jury

00:54:00.880 is that Michael Cohen

00:54:02.760 did this on his own,

00:54:04.040 it doesn't make sense

00:54:05.100 because that would mean

00:54:06.180 that Michael Cohen,

00:54:06.880 a man of non-extravagant means,

00:54:09.560 he took a home equity loan

00:54:11.220 out for $130,000

00:54:12.540 to pay off a woman

00:54:14.380 he did not know

00:54:15.320 to benefit his boss

00:54:16.500 and didn't tell the boss.

00:54:18.260 Really?

00:54:18.620 That means he's

00:54:19.200 the most magnanimous,

00:54:20.960 selfless liar

00:54:21.980 in the world.

00:54:23.040 And it doesn't pass

00:54:24.360 the smell test.

00:54:24.980 So, look,

00:54:25.920 I think Trump-

00:54:26.860 Well, he definitely

00:54:26.980 got reimbursed for it,

00:54:28.140 right, Dave?

00:54:28.560 I mean,

00:54:28.780 we appear to know

00:54:30.340 that he was reimbursed.

00:54:33.060 Maybe the story

00:54:34.640 from the Trump team

00:54:35.340 is going to be

00:54:35.860 they didn't realize

00:54:37.260 what they were

00:54:37.720 reimbursing him from

00:54:38.880 for?

00:54:39.920 They just paid him off

00:54:43.340 but they knew

00:54:44.420 it was for Stormy Daniels.

00:54:46.360 I mean,

00:54:46.540 I can't imagine

00:54:47.420 or else they just

00:54:48.260 didn't know

00:54:48.680 here's money

00:54:49.240 to reimburse for something

00:54:50.180 and then they

00:54:50.740 structured it in a way

00:54:51.980 where it would be

00:54:53.400 concealed.

00:54:54.600 Why conceal it?

00:54:55.660 Or maybe, Dave,

00:54:55.960 why couldn't it have been

00:54:56.920 Michael Cohen's the fixer?

00:54:59.160 You know,

00:54:59.380 you go back to the godfather,

00:55:00.580 the conciliary.

00:55:01.620 The godfather does not ask

00:55:02.660 the conciliary

00:55:03.280 what the money is for.

00:55:04.620 The godfather just

00:55:05.480 makes the deposit

00:55:06.640 and for, you know,

00:55:08.260 intentionally does not

00:55:09.020 want to know.

00:55:09.920 But that would matter

00:55:10.660 in this case

00:55:11.180 because Trump's

00:55:12.320 falsification of business records

00:55:13.800 has to be

00:55:14.720 because he has an intent

00:55:15.920 to conceal

00:55:16.900 his underlying crime

00:55:18.560 and the argument's

00:55:19.360 going to be

00:55:19.680 he didn't even know

00:55:20.600 he'd committed one.

00:55:22.740 Well, that's what

00:55:23.320 David Peckers

00:55:23.880 testimony

00:55:24.320 would be important.

00:55:25.440 That's where the text messages

00:55:26.380 referred to

00:55:26.980 in the indictment

00:55:27.740 would be important.

00:55:29.040 And also what's important

00:55:29.780 is that Trump

00:55:30.360 has been making

00:55:31.680 admissions

00:55:32.420 throughout this whole thing.

00:55:33.660 On his true social site,

00:55:35.400 he actually said

00:55:36.240 that this was

00:55:36.980 a long time ago

00:55:37.860 and it happened

00:55:39.100 and he relied

00:55:40.100 on Michael Cohen's advice.

00:55:41.780 It's a reliance

00:55:42.340 on counsel advice.

00:55:43.660 So, again,

00:55:44.980 you know,

00:55:45.320 he keeps,

00:55:46.040 that's why his lawyers

00:55:46.900 probably want a gag order

00:55:48.020 in place

00:55:48.460 to keep him from

00:55:49.280 keep making these admissions.

00:55:50.360 He keeps changing

00:55:51.040 his defense.

00:55:51.960 I think for his sake

00:55:53.320 it would be better

00:55:54.060 if he just said,

00:55:55.260 yeah, I did it.

00:55:55.960 I didn't want

00:55:57.160 Melania to find out.

00:55:59.100 But to this day,

00:55:59.940 he still says,

00:56:00.620 no, I never did it.

00:56:01.360 It has nothing to do with Melania.

00:56:02.260 I never did it.

00:56:02.920 Never even had it done.

00:56:03.760 I was just being extorted.

00:56:04.980 And I think that

00:56:05.540 costs him an ability

00:56:06.560 to give what

00:56:07.360 may be his best defense,

00:56:08.880 which is the

00:56:09.500 John Edwards defense,

00:56:10.560 which is,

00:56:11.040 I did this

00:56:11.480 to protect my marriage.

00:56:12.940 Or better yet,

00:56:15.340 barren,

00:56:16.420 you know,

00:56:16.880 the son,

00:56:17.600 the young son

00:56:18.180 from seeing

00:56:18.880 an allegation

00:56:19.840 about an affair

00:56:20.380 with a porn star

00:56:21.200 and some other woman

00:56:22.000 and some alleged love child,

00:56:23.380 which we know is a lie.

00:56:24.860 Trump says the first two

00:56:25.780 are lies, too,

00:56:26.780 from reading that in the paper.

00:56:28.000 I mean,

00:56:28.160 I don't know

00:56:28.420 what kind of marriage

00:56:29.160 Trump and Melania have.

00:56:30.780 It seems to me

00:56:31.400 to be unconventional.

00:56:34.400 So,

00:56:35.080 I think it'd be

00:56:35.940 a better

00:56:36.320 and easier sell

00:56:37.400 to say,

00:56:38.160 I didn't want my kids

00:56:38.960 reading that

00:56:39.400 about me in the paper.

00:56:40.240 But, yeah,

00:56:40.820 so far he's saying

00:56:41.580 it didn't happen.

00:56:42.120 So, Brad,

00:56:43.360 question for you

00:56:44.560 on a New York Times op-ed

00:56:46.800 that was submitted today

00:56:48.760 and this pair of lawyers

00:56:49.700 also went on CNN

00:56:50.680 and they're defending

00:56:51.960 Alvin Bragg

00:56:52.740 and the whole

00:56:53.380 campaign finance lane

00:56:55.660 as the underlying felony.

00:56:58.140 They,

00:56:58.620 the one woman's name

00:56:59.840 is Karen Friedman Agnifilo.

00:57:01.700 I'm really wondering

00:57:02.580 if she's married

00:57:03.140 to Mark Agnifilo,

00:57:04.140 who was the lawyer

00:57:04.780 in the NXIVM cult case.

00:57:07.760 I interviewed him

00:57:08.240 when I was on NBC.

00:57:08.980 It's such an unusual last name,

00:57:10.300 at least in my experience.

00:57:11.080 And they're both lawyers.

00:57:11.600 Anyway,

00:57:11.940 we'll look into it.

00:57:13.640 Karen Agnifilo

00:57:14.660 files this op-ed

00:57:15.660 and she used to work

00:57:16.340 in the DA's office

00:57:17.060 and she says,

00:57:18.660 court after court

00:57:20.640 across the country

00:57:21.440 has recognized

00:57:22.500 state authorities

00:57:23.840 can enforce

00:57:25.200 state law

00:57:26.080 in cases

00:57:27.000 relating

00:57:27.540 to federal candidates.

00:57:29.280 Now,

00:57:29.580 how about that,

00:57:30.280 Brad?

00:57:30.440 Because some people

00:57:31.180 have said

00:57:31.760 Bragg

00:57:32.840 has no jurisdiction

00:57:34.360 or authority

00:57:35.280 to assert

00:57:36.320 that there's been

00:57:37.200 a violation

00:57:37.840 of federal

00:57:38.860 election law.

00:57:40.360 he's outside

00:57:41.600 of his remit

00:57:43.540 and if he's really,

00:57:45.560 if the underlying felony

00:57:46.740 is federal election law,

00:57:48.560 he needs to stand down.

00:57:49.900 Do you agree with that?

00:57:51.340 The Federal Election

00:57:52.100 Campaign Act

00:57:53.280 is the governing statute

00:57:54.280 and it includes

00:57:54.900 a broad preemption

00:57:55.860 provision.

00:57:57.220 Now,

00:57:57.620 state laws

00:57:58.900 can be fulfilled

00:57:59.920 concurrently

00:58:00.920 if they don't conflict

00:58:02.520 with the Federal Election

00:58:03.380 Campaign Act

00:58:04.140 and there's been

00:58:04.520 a fair amount

00:58:04.980 of debate

00:58:05.400 both among commissioners

00:58:06.480 on the commission

00:58:07.040 and in courts

00:58:07.620 as to how far

00:58:08.300 the preemption extends

00:58:09.260 but the difference

00:58:10.420 here is that

00:58:11.240 he's not saying

00:58:12.520 I'm enforcing

00:58:13.280 a separate state law

00:58:14.860 that doesn't conflict

00:58:15.940 with the Federal

00:58:16.400 Campaign Act.

00:58:17.400 He says,

00:58:17.880 I'm enforcing,

00:58:18.740 you know,

00:58:18.880 I think the underlying

00:58:19.380 crime is the Federal

00:58:20.200 Campaign Act

00:58:20.960 and to the extent

00:58:21.900 he cited a state law,

00:58:23.440 it seems to be

00:58:24.060 a state law

00:58:24.680 that says

00:58:25.220 it's illegal

00:58:26.040 to try to influence

00:58:27.080 an election

00:58:28.340 through an unlawful process.

00:58:30.420 Well,

00:58:30.580 what is the unlawful process?

00:58:32.580 We're back to the

00:58:33.300 Federal Election Campaign Act.

00:58:34.940 So I don't think

00:58:35.980 that that argument

00:58:36.660 works here.

00:58:38.680 You know,

00:58:38.840 in truth,

00:58:39.280 I mean,

00:58:39.540 the much stronger argument

00:58:40.300 is the argument

00:58:41.100 that David pointed out

00:58:42.640 which is to say,

00:58:43.320 look,

00:58:43.540 Smith's wrong

00:58:44.260 and,

00:58:45.480 you know,

00:58:46.660 general intent

00:58:47.460 can do it.

00:58:49.040 But even if you got

00:58:50.000 to that general intent

00:58:51.240 and by the way,

00:58:52.120 I agree with what

00:58:52.920 David just said too.

00:58:53.620 I think Trump made

00:58:54.260 a huge mistake

00:58:54.960 right at the beginning.

00:58:55.500 They didn't quite seem

00:58:56.040 to know how to respond.

00:58:57.380 His proper response

00:58:58.460 at the beginning

00:58:59.180 of his legal team

00:59:00.440 with getting him

00:59:00.980 to be quiet

00:59:01.440 would have been,

00:59:02.000 look,

00:59:02.180 this was a personal expense

00:59:03.420 and it was paid

00:59:04.320 for personally

00:59:04.960 and I think that's right.

00:59:06.080 I think it's right

00:59:06.500 as a matter of law

00:59:07.220 and I think that would have

00:59:07.980 solved a lot of issues

00:59:09.300 but instead they kind of said,

00:59:10.420 well,

00:59:10.740 it was this,

00:59:11.360 it was that,

00:59:11.900 it was the other,

00:59:12.440 I did it for this reason,

00:59:13.200 for that reason

00:59:13.860 and I think in part

00:59:15.840 that's because

00:59:16.260 they didn't know the law.

00:59:17.520 So even if we went

00:59:18.820 to his subjective intent,

00:59:20.680 remember the FEC regulation

00:59:22.400 which also has

00:59:23.320 the force of law

00:59:24.180 is that you have

00:59:25.880 to be solely

00:59:27.320 for the campaign

00:59:28.440 not primarily

00:59:29.320 for the campaign

00:59:30.300 and so to the extent

00:59:31.880 he has any,

00:59:32.760 you know,

00:59:33.160 reasonable argument

00:59:34.080 as has been suggested

00:59:35.160 protecting Barron,

00:59:36.260 protecting his family,

00:59:37.760 protecting his image

00:59:38.420 for future commercial endeavors,

00:59:40.180 anything like that,

00:59:41.780 he would have,

00:59:42.600 I think,

00:59:42.800 a pretty strong case there.

00:59:44.360 And once again,

00:59:45.200 you've wiped out

00:59:45.800 the underlying felony

00:59:46.740 which reduces

00:59:47.360 the records violations

00:59:48.980 to misdemeanors

00:59:50.060 which means we're past

00:59:50.920 the statute of limitations.

00:59:52.200 I mean,

00:59:52.340 that's just,

00:59:52.720 you can just keep going

00:59:53.380 round and round on it.

00:59:54.720 I will give you a sampling

00:59:55.760 of what Trump said

00:59:56.420 he spoke at Mar-a-Lago

00:59:57.280 last night

00:59:57.840 on the gag order

00:59:59.040 which we discussed

00:59:59.680 at length,

01:00:00.160 Dave,

01:00:00.280 the other day,

01:00:00.760 you and Arthur and I,

01:00:02.020 the judge did not impose one

01:00:04.420 and,

01:00:05.520 you know,

01:00:05.900 really felt like

01:00:06.780 I think

01:00:07.200 you just can't,

01:00:08.460 you know,

01:00:08.700 but free speech

01:00:09.440 is at its apex

01:00:10.380 in terms of importance

01:00:11.680 when it's a public figure

01:00:12.980 discussing politics,

01:00:14.760 you know,

01:00:14.900 the political

01:00:15.580 doings of a campaign

01:00:17.580 and so on

01:00:18.000 and that's this case

01:00:19.380 and

01:00:20.360 so he said

01:00:21.920 I'm not going to do it yet

01:00:22.700 but he kind of urged

01:00:24.160 the lawyers

01:00:24.600 to have a talk

01:00:25.260 with

01:00:25.540 their clients.

01:00:27.200 I mean,

01:00:27.520 really,

01:00:27.780 hello Trump

01:00:28.260 about proper decorum

01:00:30.800 and not saying anything

01:00:32.120 that would be

01:00:32.580 unnecessarily inflammatory

01:00:34.200 and then Trump

01:00:35.580 went down to Mar-a-Lago

01:00:36.560 and here's a bit

01:00:37.500 of what he said.

01:00:39.400 And now this massive

01:00:40.840 election interference

01:00:41.920 at a scale

01:00:42.740 never seen before

01:00:43.780 in our country

01:00:44.440 beginning with

01:00:46.160 the radical left

01:00:47.060 George Soros

01:00:48.380 backed prosecutor

01:00:49.400 Alvin Bragg.

01:00:50.580 The criminal

01:00:51.020 is the district attorney

01:00:52.360 because he illegally

01:00:53.400 leaked massive amounts

01:00:54.740 of grand jury

01:00:55.560 for which he should

01:01:01.060 be prosecuted

01:01:02.060 or at a minimum

01:01:04.020 he should resign.

01:01:06.020 Alvin Bragg's wife

01:01:07.300 confirmed a report

01:01:08.400 that claimed her husband

01:01:09.520 has Trump

01:01:10.480 nailed

01:01:11.680 on felonies.

01:01:13.580 She has since

01:01:15.040 locked down

01:01:16.200 her Twitter account.

01:01:17.720 I have a Trump-hating

01:01:19.000 judge

01:01:19.560 with a Trump-hating

01:01:21.380 wife and family

01:01:22.540 whose daughter

01:01:23.900 worked for

01:01:24.720 Kamala Harris.

01:01:27.700 And then

01:01:28.880 I think it was

01:01:29.380 Don Jr.

01:01:30.180 tweeted out a picture

01:01:30.900 of the judge's daughter.

01:01:34.440 We're on thin ice,

01:01:35.880 Dave.

01:01:36.200 You're a prosecutor.

01:01:37.720 You have to deal

01:01:38.300 with threats

01:01:38.720 all the time.

01:01:40.300 I don't know.

01:01:41.880 What do you make of it?

01:01:43.480 I don't think

01:01:44.120 it's a crime.

01:01:44.880 That's the best thing

01:01:45.420 I can say for Trump.

01:01:46.860 But I think

01:01:48.020 he is treading

01:01:48.660 on thin ice.

01:01:49.280 And the judge

01:01:50.100 gave him a reprieve

01:01:50.940 as we predicted.

01:01:51.980 And look,

01:01:52.660 I'll admit that

01:01:53.240 I thought there would be

01:01:54.440 a Jennifer Weisselberg

01:01:55.500 connection here

01:01:56.160 and there wasn't.

01:01:56.860 But one thing

01:01:57.560 that Arthur and I

01:01:58.280 got right

01:01:58.740 was that

01:01:59.640 we predicted

01:02:00.500 the judge

01:02:00.960 would just

01:02:01.560 admonish the parties

01:02:02.520 and not impose

01:02:03.980 a gag order.

01:02:05.100 Well,

01:02:05.620 he's been admonished

01:02:06.460 and he went ahead

01:02:07.380 and didn't anyways.

01:02:08.200 He can't contain himself

01:02:09.540 and he went after

01:02:10.720 not just the judge

01:02:11.520 and the prosecutor

01:02:12.100 but their families.

01:02:13.440 That's a big no-no.

01:02:14.900 And as such,

01:02:15.580 I do expect

01:02:16.380 the judge to

01:02:17.200 issue at some point

01:02:18.600 a partial gag order.

01:02:19.980 He recognizes

01:02:20.680 that Trump

01:02:21.240 has not only

01:02:22.360 First Amendment rights

01:02:23.100 but he's campaigning

01:02:23.900 for president

01:02:24.500 so he needs to be able

01:02:25.320 to speak about things.

01:02:27.140 So I think he's going

01:02:27.840 to rein him in somewhat.

01:02:29.220 The danger for Trump

01:02:30.020 is that if you violate

01:02:31.040 even a partial gag order

01:02:32.920 then you could be held

01:02:34.380 in contempt of court

01:02:35.320 and get up to 30 days

01:02:36.340 in jail.

01:02:37.220 He won't get 30 days

01:02:38.180 but it's possible

01:02:39.120 if it's an egregious

01:02:40.120 violation

01:02:40.600 that he could be wearing

01:02:42.000 an orange jumpsuit

01:02:42.820 at some point

01:02:43.300 which is probably

01:02:43.740 the most likely

01:02:44.520 time that he would

01:02:45.760 in this case

01:02:46.260 because I don't see

01:02:47.020 necessarily

01:02:47.460 he'd get prison time

01:02:49.100 at the end of this case

01:02:50.180 but could he actually

01:02:51.380 get in trouble

01:02:52.120 by violating a gag order?

01:02:54.120 Yeah, very possible.

01:02:55.800 Oh my goodness.

01:02:56.880 The other issue

01:02:58.020 was that tweet

01:02:59.900 that Trump sent out.

01:03:01.440 I think it was a retweet

01:03:02.240 or a retruth, whatever.

01:03:03.660 It showed a picture

01:03:04.420 of him holding

01:03:05.100 a baseball bat

01:03:05.800 and Alvin Bragg

01:03:06.460 right next to him,

01:03:07.600 the prosecutor

01:03:08.060 and then Trump

01:03:09.760 did take this down.

01:03:11.980 It can,

01:03:12.500 it can,

01:03:12.720 it's a crime

01:03:13.720 to threaten

01:03:14.720 a prosecutor.

01:03:17.380 You can argue

01:03:18.100 about whether

01:03:18.500 this is what that was.

01:03:20.340 Joe Tacopina,

01:03:21.040 Trump's lawyer,

01:03:22.300 tried to defend

01:03:22.880 Trump on this.

01:03:23.500 Here's what he said.

01:03:25.340 That picture

01:03:25.860 was not his

01:03:26.440 swinging a baseball bat.

01:03:27.680 I mean,

01:03:27.820 if you want to distort

01:03:28.440 the facts,

01:03:28.820 go right ahead.

01:03:29.520 I want to address that.

01:03:30.460 Yes, it is.

01:03:31.080 He wasn't swinging

01:03:31.720 a baseball bat

01:03:32.520 at anyone's head.

01:03:33.800 That was a picture

01:03:34.320 of him showing off

01:03:34.960 an American-made bat.

01:03:36.240 Someone else

01:03:37.080 put a picture

01:03:37.960 of the district attorney

01:03:38.860 next to him

01:03:39.320 and in an article

01:03:40.340 posted that.

01:03:41.340 That's not his article,

01:03:42.100 it's not his photo.

01:03:42.720 But Trump,

01:03:45.700 I'm told,

01:03:46.760 also tweeted it

01:03:48.240 or whatever,

01:03:48.840 truth social,

01:03:49.620 and then took it down.

01:03:50.380 So, you know,

01:03:51.200 that's the kind of thing

01:03:51.960 that's going to get him

01:03:52.580 in trouble.

01:03:53.920 Do you actually think,

01:03:55.400 though,

01:03:55.620 I mean,

01:03:55.840 would a fine,

01:03:56.740 would a thousand dollar

01:03:57.460 fine do it?

01:03:58.300 If he imposes

01:03:59.120 the gag order,

01:03:59.820 do you think

01:04:00.140 we have a judge

01:04:00.720 who's got the spine

01:04:01.740 to start actually

01:04:03.180 punishing Donald Trump?

01:04:05.160 I think it would

01:04:06.280 be done in stages.

01:04:07.480 I think that

01:04:08.340 next step would be

01:04:09.440 to impose a partial

01:04:10.300 gag order.

01:04:10.800 And then if he

01:04:11.880 violates that,

01:04:12.980 then he could hit him

01:04:13.680 with a fine

01:04:14.140 and then even

01:04:15.460 strengthen the gag order.

01:04:16.480 And then if he does it

01:04:17.420 again and again,

01:04:19.020 yeah,

01:04:19.240 I could envision

01:04:20.300 the nuclear option

01:04:21.840 where he could serve

01:04:23.280 a night in jail.

01:04:24.500 I mean,

01:04:24.620 it's very possible.

01:04:25.400 I mean,

01:04:25.720 because we're dealing

01:04:26.220 with someone

01:04:26.660 who can't stop

01:04:27.920 talking about this stuff.

01:04:28.960 I mean,

01:04:29.180 last night,

01:04:29.980 he admitted he moved

01:04:31.500 the boxes around

01:04:32.600 at the Mar-a-Lago

01:04:33.360 Doctrine Matter.

01:04:34.540 He did.

01:04:35.540 Right?

01:04:35.780 So if there's anyone

01:04:36.500 who supports a gag order,

01:04:37.580 wouldn't you think

01:04:37.960 it'd be Trump's own lawyers?

01:04:39.080 He'd probably say,

01:04:39.740 please, dude,

01:04:40.600 stop talking.

01:04:41.340 You're making our jobs harder.

01:04:43.220 Yes, I know.

01:04:44.240 Right, exactly.

01:04:44.800 Because that,

01:04:45.260 of course,

01:04:45.500 as we discussed

01:04:45.960 the other day,

01:04:46.380 is one of the main,

01:04:47.600 you know,

01:04:48.820 avenues that could

01:04:49.880 result in real

01:04:50.900 legal trouble for him.

01:04:51.940 I also think

01:04:52.560 that that's just absurd,

01:04:53.780 too.

01:04:53.920 We've given a pass

01:04:54.840 to Hillary Clinton.

01:04:55.520 We could go down

01:04:56.060 the list again.

01:04:56.680 But anyway,

01:04:57.760 all of this is so disconcerting

01:04:59.000 unless you're James Comey

01:05:00.040 who just revels

01:05:01.420 in anything bad

01:05:02.220 for Donald Trump,

01:05:02.960 irrespective of how bad

01:05:03.980 it is for the country.

01:05:04.740 That man,

01:05:05.520 my I don't think

01:05:06.600 there's a person

01:05:07.320 in America

01:05:08.000 who my image of

01:05:09.820 has done such a 180 on.

01:05:12.180 Right.

01:05:12.600 Do you guys I'm like,

01:05:13.420 I'm sorry,

01:05:13.800 but do you remember

01:05:14.340 I used to deeply respect

01:05:16.140 that guy, Robert Mueller,

01:05:17.540 and I'm not a hard partisan.

01:05:19.080 I'm a lawyer.

01:05:19.900 I thought, you know,

01:05:20.360 I'd love the whole story

01:05:21.260 of those two

01:05:21.780 and the one hospital bed.

01:05:23.280 I find his comments

01:05:24.420 absolutely disgusting.

01:05:26.400 All right.

01:05:26.660 Sorry, I stole the last word.

01:05:28.020 You guys, thank you both.

01:05:29.000 So much for your legal expertise.

01:05:30.800 It's been a pleasure.

01:05:31.960 Thanks for having us.

01:05:35.780 We just discussed

01:05:36.720 the legal issues at play

01:05:38.100 in the case against Donald Trump,

01:05:39.540 but the political ramifications

01:05:40.920 cannot be overstated.

01:05:42.500 While some of the left

01:05:43.240 and Trump's fiercest media critics

01:05:44.840 have reacted with outright glee,

01:05:47.860 this situation threatens to tear

01:05:49.560 at the very fabric

01:05:51.000 of who we are as a country.

01:05:52.140 I said yesterday,

01:05:52.620 this is a before and after moment for us.

01:05:54.420 There's no going back now,

01:05:55.600 now that we've done this.

01:05:57.040 Byron Donalds is a Republican,

01:05:58.260 U.S. representative for Florida,

01:06:00.060 and he joins me now.

01:06:01.280 Congressman, welcome to the show.

01:06:02.820 It's good to be with you.

01:06:04.140 Actually, real quick,

01:06:05.100 I'm a big fan.

01:06:06.000 I love the show,

01:06:06.760 love the pod.

01:06:07.920 I've been listening for a while,

01:06:09.180 so this is actually

01:06:09.780 pretty exciting for me.

01:06:11.160 Okay, I'm going to stop

01:06:11.760 being a fanboy.

01:06:12.540 We can get to it now.

01:06:13.280 Thank you.

01:06:13.900 No, no, go on.

01:06:14.780 No, thank you so much.

01:06:16.080 I appreciate it.

01:06:17.240 So, I mean, I'm so,

01:06:19.280 I hate to make the whole show

01:06:20.440 about James Comey,

01:06:21.420 but I just thought it was

01:06:22.300 such a petty moment

01:06:23.100 that embodied so much

01:06:24.140 of what we're seeing on the left.

01:06:25.580 Glee because they hate Trump so much

01:06:27.680 and have the Trump derangement syndrome

01:06:29.060 without being able to see beyond it

01:06:30.960 to what this just did

01:06:32.880 to the United States of America.

01:06:35.320 I mean, look,

01:06:36.200 unfortunately,

01:06:36.940 this is where we are.

01:06:38.080 You know,

01:06:38.280 we have a situation in our country

01:06:39.780 where we become heads I win,

01:06:41.480 tails you lose,

01:06:42.460 and who really loses

01:06:43.600 are the American people.

01:06:45.280 So for him not to be able

01:06:46.260 to, you know,

01:06:46.740 do his job

01:06:47.340 and actually look at the facts

01:06:48.460 as they are,

01:06:49.000 look at the law

01:06:49.700 and make a determination,

01:06:51.660 he's still caught up

01:06:52.780 in his petty grievances

01:06:53.980 with Donald Trump,

01:06:55.360 the individual,

01:06:56.120 as opposed to looking at

01:06:57.340 the fabric of not just

01:06:58.820 criminal justice in America,

01:07:00.280 but just the law in general

01:07:02.120 in America.

01:07:02.900 This is the same guy

01:07:03.960 who went out in 2016

01:07:05.460 and said, you know,

01:07:06.520 no reasonable prosecutor

01:07:07.880 will bring charges

01:07:08.840 even though everybody knew

01:07:10.660 that Hillary Clinton

01:07:11.420 violated the Espionage Act.

01:07:13.200 It was clear as day

01:07:14.240 he's the no reasonable

01:07:15.800 prosecutor guy.

01:07:17.280 I guess in his mind,

01:07:18.080 Alvin Bragg is reasonable,

01:07:19.180 but in nobody else's.

01:07:21.560 The media glee

01:07:22.880 was in your face

01:07:25.080 on every channel

01:07:26.140 and I searched them all.

01:07:27.800 And the overreach,

01:07:29.220 I don't know if you caught

01:07:29.840 any of the body language analysis

01:07:32.520 that some people were doing

01:07:33.760 as they,

01:07:34.140 we only got still shots

01:07:35.320 of Trump inside the courtroom.

01:07:37.080 They let a couple

01:07:37.900 of still photographers

01:07:38.700 to go in there.

01:07:39.820 And of course,

01:07:40.760 that didn't stop CNN

01:07:41.760 from going there.

01:07:43.300 Here is some of that

01:07:44.760 Sop 14.

01:07:46.820 Seeing that wide shot

01:07:49.300 where he is at

01:07:50.860 the defense table

01:07:52.160 and you see

01:07:53.440 the court police,

01:07:55.180 he's in custody,

01:07:56.840 he's in their control,

01:07:59.300 I think is very striking.

01:08:01.920 His body language

01:08:02.800 hunched over,

01:08:04.040 hands clasped

01:08:05.180 between his legs,

01:08:06.380 that is an angry Trump.

01:08:08.980 And he's forced today

01:08:10.280 to live in reality.

01:08:12.100 We're reading body language

01:08:13.060 right now.

01:08:13.500 Pretty soon we'll get

01:08:14.020 to read an indictment.

01:08:14.820 This has to be a thud for him

01:08:16.020 because he lives

01:08:16.640 in a fantasy land.

01:08:17.880 He looked really irritated

01:08:19.960 and annoyed.

01:08:20.880 That is a pissed off

01:08:22.420 Donald Trump.

01:08:24.180 I mean,

01:08:24.680 like,

01:08:26.540 okay,

01:08:27.480 right?

01:08:27.740 This is where

01:08:28.120 they're going to go.

01:08:28.560 But they're drunk

01:08:29.380 on the Trump wine

01:08:30.200 again already.

01:08:31.820 And this is what

01:08:32.240 we're going to get.

01:08:32.960 What?

01:08:33.260 The next court appearance

01:08:33.960 is in December.

01:08:34.960 Now through December,

01:08:35.720 is this how it's going to be?

01:08:37.840 Unfortunately,

01:08:38.540 yeah.

01:08:38.820 Look,

01:08:38.980 a couple things.

01:08:39.720 One,

01:08:40.080 the media need

01:08:40.960 their ratings

01:08:41.720 and ratings goal

01:08:43.060 for them

01:08:43.620 has always been

01:08:44.340 Donald Trump.

01:08:45.060 Let's just be perfectly clear.

01:08:46.600 A lot of the big media,

01:08:47.680 they are corporations.

01:08:48.460 As much as the left

01:08:49.480 loves to decry profits,

01:08:51.280 the big media

01:08:51.940 make big profits

01:08:53.100 off of scandalized

01:08:54.640 news coverage

01:08:55.340 because it keeps

01:08:55.920 eyeballs on the coverage.

01:08:57.860 This is what

01:08:58.280 they're going to do

01:08:58.980 and we're going to see

01:08:59.880 more of it,

01:09:00.760 not just through the,

01:09:01.620 I guess the next court date,

01:09:02.640 which is December

01:09:03.220 or January,

01:09:03.860 but frankly,

01:09:04.840 throughout the rest

01:09:05.480 of the presidential cycle.

01:09:07.220 Number two,

01:09:07.660 you know,

01:09:07.820 the people who are

01:09:08.420 describing it as,

01:09:09.480 oh my gosh,

01:09:09.980 he's leaned forward

01:09:10.840 with clenched hands.

01:09:12.220 Have they ever seen

01:09:12.760 Donald Trump sit

01:09:13.500 in any meeting?

01:09:14.680 I mean,

01:09:14.880 look,

01:09:15.040 take any White House,

01:09:16.320 any Oval Office meeting.

01:09:17.540 What's he doing?

01:09:18.280 Leaning forward,

01:09:19.100 hands clasped together

01:09:20.100 in front of him.

01:09:21.100 That's his normal posture anyway.

01:09:22.940 And the last piece is,

01:09:24.220 what American

01:09:24.940 wouldn't be pissed?

01:09:26.260 You're sitting in front

01:09:27.220 of a judge

01:09:28.260 on trumped up foolishness,

01:09:30.500 no pun intended,

01:09:31.280 and you realize

01:09:33.220 you're being taken

01:09:33.920 to the woodshed

01:09:34.740 simply because

01:09:35.360 the prosecutor

01:09:36.060 doesn't like you

01:09:37.040 and you're going to sit there

01:09:38.100 with a smile on your face?

01:09:39.180 I mean,

01:09:39.340 these guys are silly.

01:09:41.500 You know,

01:09:42.180 I was listening to

01:09:42.740 Brick Hume yesterday

01:09:43.500 and he was talking about

01:09:44.520 how the average American

01:09:45.740 is dealing with

01:09:46.420 rising inflation

01:09:47.360 and their own financial issues

01:09:48.800 and concerned about

01:09:50.100 what's happening

01:09:50.560 with Ukraine

01:09:51.100 and China

01:09:51.640 and so on.

01:09:52.460 And they look up,

01:09:53.540 they see this aged

01:09:54.360 82-year-old

01:09:55.380 almost president

01:09:56.140 who can't even

01:09:56.780 put two sentences together

01:09:57.740 when he's on cam.

01:09:58.860 And then on the other hand,

01:10:00.360 they have Donald Trump

01:10:01.120 who's the frontrunner

01:10:01.920 on the GOP side

01:10:03.020 who's dealing with,

01:10:03.880 you know,

01:10:04.300 allegations of the porn stars

01:10:05.620 and so on.

01:10:07.020 Okay,

01:10:07.500 that's one way

01:10:08.040 of looking at this.

01:10:09.380 Then I listened to Mark Levin

01:10:10.720 who came on

01:10:12.140 in a barn burner

01:10:12.920 on Hannity last night

01:10:14.000 and just went off

01:10:16.380 on how

01:10:17.000 the number one takeaway here

01:10:18.680 is Donald Trump

01:10:19.400 is literally

01:10:19.940 the only person

01:10:20.760 who can be elected

01:10:21.620 president right now.

01:10:22.480 That there is no way

01:10:24.020 of fighting

01:10:24.620 the radical left

01:10:27.320 that wants to undo

01:10:29.060 virtually every norm

01:10:30.180 we have

01:10:30.780 besides electing

01:10:33.000 Donald Trump.

01:10:33.620 There may be time

01:10:34.500 in the future

01:10:34.980 for other candidates,

01:10:36.020 but now's the time

01:10:36.960 for this guy

01:10:37.460 because who else

01:10:38.840 could withstand

01:10:40.000 this nonstop harassment

01:10:42.140 and still want the job?

01:10:44.640 Where do you fall?

01:10:46.740 Look,

01:10:46.960 I gotta tell you,

01:10:47.800 I think what Mark Levin said

01:10:48.920 is a lot of credence

01:10:50.000 to that.

01:10:50.860 This is the Democrat

01:10:51.940 playbook now

01:10:52.820 that it's fully

01:10:54.480 being played out.

01:10:55.720 At first,

01:10:56.280 they just try to

01:10:56.960 ridicule you

01:10:57.900 and a lot of Republican

01:10:58.760 leaders in the past

01:10:59.840 have just stopped

01:11:00.820 at the ridiculing

01:11:01.640 because they just

01:11:02.040 couldn't take it.

01:11:02.760 It was hurting

01:11:03.080 their poll numbers.

01:11:04.300 Then they try

01:11:04.680 to demoralize you

01:11:05.660 and that's where

01:11:06.060 the rest of them

01:11:06.760 will typically

01:11:07.240 get off the ship.

01:11:08.540 Then they will go

01:11:08.960 to demonization

01:11:09.800 and we've already

01:11:10.780 seen the demonization plays

01:11:12.240 and now they're

01:11:12.840 at criminalization.

01:11:14.360 This is a,

01:11:15.200 they're not going

01:11:15.880 to stop.

01:11:16.660 And so the question

01:11:17.840 for any other Republican

01:11:18.960 who wants to step

01:11:19.680 into this job is

01:11:20.520 are you prepared

01:11:21.980 to deal with

01:11:23.080 the constant onslaught

01:11:24.420 or are you going

01:11:25.440 to just give up

01:11:26.340 certain pieces

01:11:27.000 and let the Democrats

01:11:28.220 have their way

01:11:29.080 in their agenda?

01:11:30.000 Because at the end

01:11:30.720 of the day,

01:11:31.160 Megan,

01:11:31.480 this is about

01:11:32.300 the agenda.

01:11:33.360 It just so happens

01:11:34.260 that Donald Trump

01:11:35.040 is the target

01:11:35.780 because they know

01:11:37.440 he will not yield.

01:11:38.880 He will not bend

01:11:39.640 the knee.

01:11:40.620 He will continue

01:11:41.320 to fight for what

01:11:42.060 he believes in

01:11:42.860 in the correct direction

01:11:45.740 of the country

01:11:46.240 being America first.

01:11:47.400 He's going to go

01:11:48.260 forward with that

01:11:49.500 regardless of what

01:11:50.360 the press think,

01:11:51.360 regardless of what

01:11:52.060 the Democrat thinks,

01:11:53.340 regardless of what

01:11:54.340 the massive donors think,

01:11:55.760 he's going to press forward.

01:11:57.380 And so that's how

01:11:57.800 you arrive at this juncture.

01:12:00.480 So if you're looking

01:12:01.480 at having to go

01:12:02.240 through the federal agencies

01:12:03.320 and clean house,

01:12:04.320 if you're looking

01:12:05.020 at trying to find a way

01:12:05.900 to get our budget

01:12:06.780 under control,

01:12:07.760 if you're looking

01:12:08.420 at how to secure

01:12:09.320 our southern border,

01:12:10.400 how to deal

01:12:10.900 with the Chinese

01:12:11.580 who are on the move

01:12:12.980 and are our largest

01:12:14.080 adversary on the globe,

01:12:16.060 who do you bring

01:12:16.820 in to get all

01:12:17.540 that work done

01:12:18.480 in a four-year period,

01:12:20.640 that's the kind

01:12:21.580 of work you describe

01:12:22.380 for two terms

01:12:23.620 as president,

01:12:24.280 not just one.

01:12:25.780 And if you try

01:12:26.240 to take a psychological

01:12:27.920 viewpoint of everybody

01:12:29.800 who's trying to apply

01:12:30.620 for this job

01:12:31.220 or even maybe

01:12:31.880 want to apply

01:12:32.400 for this job,

01:12:33.520 the person at the top

01:12:34.400 of that list

01:12:34.820 to get it all done

01:12:35.520 is Donald Trump.

01:12:36.180 And I think that's

01:12:36.600 where Mark Levin

01:12:37.140 is going.

01:12:38.240 Now, what about

01:12:38.880 Ron DeSantis?

01:12:39.640 You're in Florida.

01:12:41.280 He's done so well there.

01:12:42.900 His approval ratings

01:12:43.600 have only gone up

01:12:44.500 since he slayed,

01:12:46.120 as my children would say,

01:12:46.960 in the midterm election.

01:12:49.180 And he is a fighter.

01:12:51.560 He doesn't get

01:12:52.000 as much press

01:12:52.900 as Donald Trump

01:12:53.780 because Trump,

01:12:55.020 but he too is a fighter.

01:12:56.740 He's not exactly known

01:12:57.500 for just laying down

01:12:58.480 when the tough times

01:12:59.260 come his way.

01:13:00.380 And there are still

01:13:01.460 so many of my listeners

01:13:02.500 and viewers

01:13:02.900 who will call in and say,

01:13:04.500 you know,

01:13:05.100 he is Trump

01:13:06.000 without the baggage.

01:13:06.840 Of course,

01:13:07.320 the Democrats

01:13:07.760 will try to demonize him,

01:13:09.000 but there's just

01:13:09.840 a particular thing

01:13:10.660 about Donald Trump

01:13:11.420 that makes him

01:13:12.140 especially toxic.

01:13:13.740 Time to move on.

01:13:15.360 Do you think

01:13:15.860 that the latest

01:13:16.520 legal events

01:13:19.520 have changed

01:13:20.640 that analysis?

01:13:22.800 No,

01:13:23.360 I really don't think so.

01:13:24.820 I think,

01:13:25.200 if anything,

01:13:26.120 the current legal problems

01:13:27.300 have rallied

01:13:27.980 more Republican voters

01:13:29.300 around Donald Trump

01:13:30.440 because even

01:13:31.360 some of those

01:13:32.100 who you say

01:13:32.700 might have Trump fatigue,

01:13:33.940 they want to move on.

01:13:35.340 You know,

01:13:35.500 they look at Ron DeSantis,

01:13:36.620 who, by the way,

01:13:37.100 has done a tremendous job

01:13:38.460 as governor.

01:13:39.420 I mean,

01:13:39.580 he's been excellent.

01:13:40.540 He's been

01:13:41.000 the elected leader

01:13:42.400 in Republican politics.

01:13:44.080 Even if you

01:13:45.860 look at him

01:13:46.360 and say,

01:13:46.920 you know what,

01:13:47.480 maybe we can

01:13:47.900 make that shift.

01:13:48.920 I think for a lot

01:13:49.600 of voters,

01:13:50.020 they got to understand

01:13:50.840 it doesn't matter

01:13:51.680 if it's Donald Trump

01:13:52.440 or Ron DeSantis.

01:13:53.600 This is what happens

01:13:54.920 when you say no

01:13:56.280 to the Democrat agenda.

01:13:57.620 They will not stop.

01:13:59.880 They're going

01:14:00.320 to press forward.

01:14:01.580 Do I think

01:14:02.080 Ron DeSantis

01:14:02.620 has a necessary strength

01:14:03.720 to step into

01:14:04.680 that forefront?

01:14:05.360 I actually do.

01:14:06.000 I think he would

01:14:06.540 step into it

01:14:07.600 and do it

01:14:07.980 because knowing him,

01:14:09.340 he just doesn't care.

01:14:10.480 He's just going to do

01:14:10.980 what he thinks is right.

01:14:12.720 But I think also

01:14:14.280 you're looking

01:14:14.760 at a situation

01:14:15.420 where muscle memory

01:14:16.820 I think is key.

01:14:18.240 Donald Trump

01:14:18.640 has been through

01:14:19.380 these fights.

01:14:20.060 He knows where

01:14:20.860 these landmines are

01:14:21.960 and so he can walk

01:14:23.140 in and be effective.

01:14:24.520 But to a broader

01:14:25.840 perspective,

01:14:26.380 I think that what's

01:14:27.200 going to happen

01:14:27.600 in the Republican primaries,

01:14:29.520 voters are going

01:14:30.140 to rally around

01:14:31.120 Donald Trump,

01:14:31.680 especially if the

01:14:32.420 New York DA

01:14:33.160 is going to stretch

01:14:34.260 these cases

01:14:34.980 through the primaries

01:14:36.020 because what voters

01:14:37.640 are going to see,

01:14:38.820 especially in a Republican

01:14:39.700 primary, is that

01:14:41.060 you are politically

01:14:42.460 persecuting this man

01:14:44.160 simply because

01:14:45.320 you don't agree

01:14:46.660 with his policy set

01:14:48.200 or how he goes

01:14:49.240 about his business.

01:14:50.440 And that's just

01:14:51.380 un-American.

01:14:52.560 Republican voters

01:14:53.300 are going to rally

01:14:54.000 to that kind of a cause.

01:14:55.220 I don't think

01:14:55.520 they're going to say,

01:14:56.320 you know what,

01:14:57.100 too much baggage here,

01:14:58.020 we're going to move on.

01:14:59.020 Now, here's the key thing.

01:15:00.700 In a general election,

01:15:02.640 I think you're going

01:15:03.240 to have a situation

01:15:03.920 where independent voters,

01:15:05.300 soft Democrats,

01:15:06.200 are going to look at this

01:15:06.880 and say, okay,

01:15:07.640 we can do four more years

01:15:09.280 of Joe Biden

01:15:10.100 where the country

01:15:11.320 is a mess

01:15:12.100 or we can go back

01:15:14.040 to the guy

01:15:14.700 who actually had

01:15:15.400 my 401k

01:15:16.260 and my business thriving.

01:15:17.740 Like, my 401k

01:15:18.680 was thriving,

01:15:19.220 my business was thriving

01:15:20.120 under this guy.

01:15:21.640 I get the mean tweets

01:15:22.680 and all,

01:15:23.800 but then they look

01:15:24.540 at these things

01:15:25.020 with these cases

01:15:25.680 and all this other stuff

01:15:26.440 and they say to themselves,

01:15:27.380 man, they really are out

01:15:28.940 to get this guy

01:15:29.820 and things have sucked

01:15:31.020 under Joe Biden.

01:15:31.960 I think that's going

01:15:32.500 to be your political question

01:15:33.580 in 2024.

01:15:34.840 That's the thing.

01:15:35.520 It's like,

01:15:35.840 I think the Democrats

01:15:36.500 and these media

01:15:37.340 who are just so gleeful

01:15:38.400 about this

01:15:39.040 are misunderstanding

01:15:40.340 how the average person

01:15:41.740 at home sees this.

01:15:43.160 I have friends

01:15:43.760 who marched

01:15:44.860 against Trump,

01:15:46.680 marched against him,

01:15:48.260 texting me

01:15:49.400 that they're ready

01:15:49.860 to donate to his campaign.

01:15:51.220 They're so mad.

01:15:52.500 They can see

01:15:53.220 what's being done to him.

01:15:55.280 And, you know,

01:15:55.720 this is on the heels

01:15:56.760 of so many targeting,

01:15:58.400 instances of targeting

01:15:59.980 of Trump.

01:16:00.380 You know,

01:16:00.480 we could go through

01:16:00.900 obviously the whole list

01:16:01.760 of Russiagate

01:16:02.280 and the double indictments

01:16:03.140 and everything they've done

01:16:04.280 and the numerous lawsuits.

01:16:05.680 I mean,

01:16:05.800 Alvin Bragg bragging

01:16:07.400 about being part

01:16:08.700 of over 100 lawsuits

01:16:10.080 that the AG's office

01:16:11.160 filed against Trump

01:16:12.020 and Trump organization

01:16:12.860 and Trump and his family.

01:16:14.160 And that's not including

01:16:15.400 what's happening now

01:16:16.220 with this latest indictment,

01:16:17.260 what's going to happen

01:16:17.840 in Atlanta,

01:16:18.720 what's going to happen

01:16:19.620 in the special prosecutor's office

01:16:21.820 in Washington, D.C.

01:16:23.020 I mean,

01:16:24.240 it's so much

01:16:25.260 they're making a victim

01:16:26.920 out of the guy

01:16:27.900 they wanted to be seen

01:16:29.180 as the villain.

01:16:29.900 I mean,

01:16:30.640 do you think they're

01:16:31.460 in danger of overplaying

01:16:33.280 their hand

01:16:33.820 or have already?

01:16:35.860 I think they've already

01:16:36.980 overplayed their hand

01:16:38.040 and I don't think

01:16:38.560 they're going to stop

01:16:39.260 because the radical elements

01:16:41.160 of the Democrat base

01:16:42.240 want this.

01:16:43.580 They thrive on this.

01:16:45.140 And let's be very clear

01:16:46.080 for the Democrat party,

01:16:47.380 they're in a catch-22.

01:16:49.200 They have to try

01:16:50.640 to go after Trump

01:16:51.600 to motivate their base.

01:16:53.100 But in the process

01:16:54.180 of doing that,

01:16:55.040 you elevate Trump.

01:16:56.620 And so it's,

01:16:57.240 and you,

01:16:57.760 then you're in,

01:16:58.540 it's not even a part

01:16:59.420 of,

01:16:59.940 well,

01:17:00.080 maybe he did it,

01:17:00.880 maybe he did.

01:17:02.320 You're in a mean-spirited argument.

01:17:04.300 You're in an un-American argument.

01:17:05.940 You're in a turning

01:17:06.640 the legal system

01:17:07.680 on its head

01:17:08.940 to go after

01:17:09.860 your political enemy's argument.

01:17:12.420 And that puts them

01:17:13.480 in a very terrible position.

01:17:14.860 But Megan,

01:17:15.200 let's remember one thing.

01:17:16.520 In 2016,

01:17:17.480 Hillary Clinton

01:17:18.120 funded a fake dossier

01:17:20.140 to go after Donald Trump.

01:17:21.680 In 2020,

01:17:23.200 the media,

01:17:24.020 by the way,

01:17:24.560 what Alvin Bragg

01:17:25.320 is accusing Donald Trump of,

01:17:26.600 he might as well

01:17:27.140 accuse big media of

01:17:28.380 because they suppressed

01:17:29.660 information

01:17:30.380 about Hunter Biden

01:17:31.620 in the middle

01:17:32.440 of that presidential election,

01:17:34.640 the 2020 election.

01:17:36.180 And by the way,

01:17:36.820 FEC came out

01:17:37.660 with a ruling

01:17:38.220 that said

01:17:38.880 this is not an,

01:17:40.280 this is not an in-kind

01:17:41.320 contribution from media,

01:17:42.780 although you could argue

01:17:43.780 that was by far

01:17:44.640 the largest in-kind contribution

01:17:46.160 ever conceived of

01:17:47.800 in politics.

01:17:48.840 And now 2024,

01:17:49.940 you have Alvin Bragg

01:17:51.500 and these DAs

01:17:52.520 in his various jurisdictions.

01:17:53.940 So what you're actually seeing

01:17:56.040 is Democrat interference

01:17:57.700 in elections

01:17:58.720 by suppressing information

01:18:00.620 or shoving new information

01:18:02.260 into the field,

01:18:03.220 which distracts

01:18:04.380 from the things

01:18:04.960 that actually do matter

01:18:06.080 to the American people.

01:18:07.340 Our economy,

01:18:08.600 our border,

01:18:09.420 our security,

01:18:10.580 foreign policy,

01:18:11.540 the things that the federal government

01:18:12.740 should actually be

01:18:13.520 focused on and doing.

01:18:15.440 And it's like,

01:18:15.820 you look at what

01:18:16.440 they're coming after him for

01:18:17.580 in these three potential

01:18:18.920 investigations.

01:18:20.360 One that's resulted

01:18:21.580 in an indictment

01:18:22.300 in New York.

01:18:22.860 It's really about paperwork.

01:18:24.400 You didn't fill out

01:18:24.920 the right papers

01:18:25.520 revealing what those

01:18:27.060 payments were for.

01:18:27.800 That's really Alvin Bragg's case.

01:18:29.460 You,

01:18:29.700 you wrote down the wrong thing

01:18:31.000 in your ledger.

01:18:31.980 And I really care about

01:18:33.240 ledgers in Manhattan

01:18:34.600 because we're the financial

01:18:35.520 capital of the world.

01:18:36.520 He's on camera.

01:18:37.400 That's what he's saying.

01:18:38.120 That's his case.

01:18:39.260 Then there's,

01:18:40.120 there's Washington, D.C.

01:18:41.540 What,

01:18:41.980 what is that special prosecutor

01:18:43.220 Jack Smith worried about?

01:18:44.780 Trump and documents.

01:18:45.980 You didn't keep

01:18:46.540 the proper documents.

01:18:47.680 You didn't satisfy

01:18:48.320 the,

01:18:49.100 the little national archivist

01:18:50.880 who was definitely

01:18:51.700 a Trump hater

01:18:52.320 who didn't decide

01:18:54.400 to do this

01:18:54.800 with any other president,

01:18:55.800 try to go through

01:18:56.400 and see exactly

01:18:57.120 what had been returned

01:18:57.800 and what hadn't.

01:18:58.660 That guy wasn't satisfied.

01:18:59.820 And then Trump apparently

01:19:00.800 didn't turn over

01:19:01.440 all the documents.

01:19:02.260 It's another,

01:19:02.640 it's just,

01:19:03.080 it's hard to feel

01:19:04.140 the heartstrings swell

01:19:05.400 on documents.

01:19:06.700 And even the Fulton County,

01:19:08.000 Georgia one

01:19:08.540 is about Trump

01:19:09.660 in a phone call

01:19:10.320 where he was saying,

01:19:11.220 find me the votes,

01:19:12.640 which is very ambiguous

01:19:13.800 and honestly can be spun

01:19:14.800 either way.

01:19:15.580 So it's tough,

01:19:16.720 you know,

01:19:17.240 to get people

01:19:18.400 emotionally behind you,

01:19:20.060 which you need to

01:19:20.880 given the context here

01:19:22.160 with documents

01:19:23.060 and a one-liner

01:19:23.880 on a phone call.

01:19:25.460 Well, I think,

01:19:26.240 look, for Democrats,

01:19:27.040 this will be the second time

01:19:28.000 they try to get Trump

01:19:28.860 on a phone call.

01:19:29.720 I mean,

01:19:29.860 that's what the first impeachment

01:19:31.260 was about a phone call.

01:19:32.600 That was stupid too.

01:19:34.160 You're right.

01:19:34.900 This stuff is so thin

01:19:36.320 and it's frankly,

01:19:37.040 it's deranged at this point.

01:19:39.040 Donald Trump's

01:19:39.600 not president right now.

01:19:41.160 He's not been

01:19:41.960 running the country

01:19:43.200 for what are we,

01:19:43.840 two and a half years

01:19:44.760 and now Joe Biden's

01:19:45.840 been president.

01:19:47.080 Yes, he's coming back.

01:19:48.280 He wants to run.

01:19:49.400 He wants to finish

01:19:50.080 the job that he started,

01:19:51.440 but they are so deranged

01:19:53.560 on this stuff

01:19:54.240 and frankly,

01:19:54.860 it's almost like

01:19:55.500 Stockholm syndrome.

01:19:56.660 It's like they can't

01:19:58.080 live with them.

01:19:58.720 They can't live without them.

01:20:00.180 It's a very weird place

01:20:02.920 to be in,

01:20:03.820 but the fact of the matter

01:20:05.280 is is that policy

01:20:06.960 and how you're actually

01:20:08.060 going to manage the country,

01:20:09.680 those are the things

01:20:10.420 that really matter

01:20:11.380 to the voters

01:20:12.020 at the end of the day.

01:20:13.540 What this is

01:20:14.280 is for them

01:20:14.700 to try to find

01:20:15.560 those emotional cords

01:20:16.980 to drive turnout.

01:20:18.720 I mean,

01:20:18.860 it's not something

01:20:19.340 we're talking about,

01:20:20.240 but yesterday,

01:20:21.260 you know,

01:20:21.440 you had the election

01:20:22.120 in Wisconsin,

01:20:23.260 the election in Chicago.

01:20:24.860 What the Democrats

01:20:25.760 are doing there

01:20:26.320 is using emotion

01:20:27.520 to drive those elections.

01:20:29.100 That's what they're doing

01:20:29.920 here with Donald Trump.

01:20:30.920 They're trying to use

01:20:31.660 the emotions

01:20:32.380 to drive their turnout

01:20:34.040 because if you look

01:20:34.940 at their policy

01:20:35.780 and what they stand for,

01:20:37.300 what they really want

01:20:38.060 to accomplish,

01:20:39.000 man, nobody wants

01:20:39.700 to deal with that.

01:20:40.240 That stuff is crazy,

01:20:41.780 but that's what they have

01:20:42.480 to do

01:20:42.860 in order to get

01:20:43.440 electoral success.

01:20:44.980 Can you believe

01:20:45.320 Chicago went farther

01:20:46.960 to the left?

01:20:48.660 Yeah.

01:20:49.240 It's unbelievable to me

01:20:50.440 that they had

01:20:51.180 a relatively reasonable

01:20:52.260 candidate right there

01:20:53.040 for the taking.

01:20:53.920 They rejected that candidate

01:20:55.360 and now have gone

01:20:56.540 more left

01:20:57.660 than they had

01:20:58.500 under Lori Lightfoot.

01:20:59.580 How?

01:21:00.280 How,

01:21:00.700 given the crime stats there?

01:21:01.880 How?

01:21:03.340 Because elections

01:21:04.280 are part policy,

01:21:06.040 but they're really

01:21:06.820 emotional creatures.

01:21:08.040 And I didn't really

01:21:08.620 follow that mayoral race,

01:21:09.980 but if you were

01:21:10.960 going to ask me

01:21:11.740 how they kind of

01:21:12.640 pulled it together,

01:21:13.820 I think it's Brandon,

01:21:14.840 I forget his last name,

01:21:16.200 doesn't really matter

01:21:16.860 right now,

01:21:17.480 that he's the new

01:21:18.640 wave of leadership.

01:21:19.260 He's going to make

01:21:19.860 things better,

01:21:20.460 even though his policy

01:21:21.740 set is going to

01:21:22.820 make things far worse.

01:21:24.480 And I think,

01:21:24.940 obviously,

01:21:25.380 the electorate in Chicago

01:21:26.500 is largely Black,

01:21:27.620 largely African American.

01:21:29.100 Look,

01:21:29.360 you got to understand,

01:21:30.020 there is a sense

01:21:30.840 of pride

01:21:31.520 for Black people

01:21:32.640 to see somebody

01:21:33.540 leading their city.

01:21:34.620 That's an emotional tie.

01:21:36.200 That is a matter

01:21:37.360 of pride

01:21:37.820 for the Black community.

01:21:39.140 But at the end

01:21:40.100 of the day,

01:21:40.980 policies matter.

01:21:42.340 Like,

01:21:42.580 I can have pride

01:21:43.300 in you,

01:21:43.820 but if my kids

01:21:44.820 can't walk down

01:21:45.560 the street

01:21:45.820 to go to school,

01:21:46.960 you know,

01:21:47.240 that's a tragedy

01:21:48.420 for my own family.

01:21:49.980 And my hope

01:21:50.560 is that the voters

01:21:51.420 in Chicago

01:21:51.960 begin to see

01:21:52.660 through this.

01:21:53.300 But unfortunately,

01:21:54.460 Chicago's going

01:21:55.020 to take the same

01:21:55.800 walk that San Francisco

01:21:56.860 has taken

01:21:57.500 in what my former

01:21:58.660 city of New York

01:21:59.380 has already taken.

01:22:00.640 Yep.

01:22:01.060 Baltimore,

01:22:01.620 we could go down

01:22:02.100 the list.

01:22:03.100 You know,

01:22:03.240 in the meantime,

01:22:03.720 I spoke about

01:22:04.200 how it's tough

01:22:04.800 for people to

01:22:05.200 emotionally connect

01:22:05.980 on document management

01:22:07.860 and a one-line

01:22:09.080 and a phone call.

01:22:10.480 In times like this,

01:22:11.780 and it is a big day.

01:22:13.060 Yesterday was a very

01:22:13.980 big day for America.

01:22:15.600 You look to the

01:22:16.460 commander-in-chief,

01:22:17.600 you know,

01:22:17.760 to our presidential

01:22:18.540 leadership

01:22:19.100 to set the tone.

01:22:21.200 You know,

01:22:21.980 somber.

01:22:23.080 Had I been advising him,

01:22:24.500 I would have said,

01:22:25.820 you can comment on it.

01:22:26.900 Stay somber.

01:22:28.280 You know,

01:22:29.020 tip of the hat

01:22:29.640 to the people

01:22:30.080 who are pained right now

01:22:31.320 because they understand

01:22:32.020 this is a before-and-after

01:22:33.220 moment.

01:22:34.160 Don't be gleeful

01:22:35.280 and make some

01:22:37.440 larger statement

01:22:38.360 about how America

01:22:39.040 will get through it.

01:22:39.880 That's what I would advise.

01:22:41.100 Here's what happened instead.

01:22:42.840 Take a listen.

01:22:43.380 Sot 16.

01:22:56.300 Okay.

01:22:57.240 So what they said was,

01:22:59.240 is the indictment

01:22:59.780 of your predecessor

01:23:00.380 politically divisive?

01:23:02.280 He understood

01:23:02.880 what they were yelling

01:23:03.420 at him because

01:23:03.800 they were all yelling

01:23:04.220 the same thing.

01:23:05.160 He just smirked

01:23:05.840 and smiled.

01:23:07.000 Didn't really say anything.

01:23:08.020 Corrine Jean-Pierre

01:23:08.600 was also asked about it.

01:23:09.560 Here's how she handled it.

01:23:10.880 Biden is a lawyer.

01:23:13.440 And the president

01:23:14.380 of the United States

01:23:15.020 and the commander-in-chief.

01:23:16.100 But go ahead.

01:23:16.680 He is.

01:23:17.520 But as a lawyer,

01:23:19.280 is he concerned at all

01:23:20.660 that a local DA

01:23:22.320 indicting a former president

01:23:24.080 could down the line

01:23:25.120 open up the possibility,

01:23:27.300 set the precedent

01:23:27.960 that local DAs

01:23:29.680 that don't like former

01:23:31.420 President Biden

01:23:32.200 could indict him.

01:23:34.120 I'm not going to comment

01:23:34.820 from here.

01:23:35.940 Why don't you have more

01:23:37.100 to say about the Trump

01:23:38.160 indictment?

01:23:38.320 It is an ongoing case.

01:23:40.480 And I've been very clear

01:23:41.500 about that.

01:23:41.960 We've been prudent about that,

01:23:43.200 not commenting on ongoing cases.

01:23:45.140 And we're going to stick to that.

01:23:47.220 So that's a lie.

01:23:48.940 That's a lie.

01:23:49.620 Any case involving,

01:23:50.860 you know,

01:23:51.160 police and a black defendant,

01:23:53.720 in which case,

01:23:54.440 you know,

01:23:54.640 there was violence.

01:23:55.540 So they've weighed in

01:23:56.760 every single time.

01:23:57.540 But this one,

01:23:58.280 they want to act like

01:23:58.980 they're above board.

01:23:59.780 And there's absolutely

01:24:00.260 no tone setting

01:24:01.240 for the country

01:24:02.300 from the commander-in-chief himself.

01:24:04.880 Well, look,

01:24:05.360 I'm going to do some

01:24:06.080 body language analysis,

01:24:08.040 you know.

01:24:08.620 Shout out to Bill O'Reilly

01:24:09.740 on the old show.

01:24:10.500 They would bring that segment.

01:24:11.320 I actually like that segment.

01:24:12.180 It was pretty cool.

01:24:12.560 That was a good segment.

01:24:13.060 But anyway,

01:24:14.040 here's what I will tell you.

01:24:15.420 What you see from

01:24:16.140 Corinne Jean-Pierre

01:24:16.920 and from Joe Biden

01:24:17.660 is smugness.

01:24:19.160 It is a smug

01:24:20.240 look on their faces

01:24:21.680 like,

01:24:22.860 they're doing our work

01:24:24.020 for us

01:24:24.600 and we're just going

01:24:25.200 to sit back

01:24:25.880 in the catbird seat

01:24:26.860 and watch it all unfold.

01:24:28.840 And I think that smugness

01:24:30.400 is really going to come back

01:24:31.520 to bite them.

01:24:32.860 Because no matter

01:24:33.740 how you feel

01:24:34.300 about Donald Trump,

01:24:35.820 what you don't want to see

01:24:36.960 is this political

01:24:39.000 persecution of people.

01:24:41.360 Like, look,

01:24:41.720 some people,

01:24:42.400 the Democrats will say,

01:24:43.180 oh,

01:24:43.740 but Donald Trump said,

01:24:44.840 you know,

01:24:45.200 to lock up Hillary Clinton.

01:24:46.600 Okay, yeah,

01:24:47.220 he definitely said that.

01:24:48.160 He said that in a speech

01:24:49.460 many, many times,

01:24:50.900 many, many rallies.

01:24:51.760 Megan, you've covered it.

01:24:52.820 But he didn't turn

01:24:54.320 his Department of Justice

01:24:55.540 loose on Hillary Clinton.

01:24:57.200 That never happened.

01:24:58.580 He didn't send the word

01:25:00.100 out to local DAs

01:25:01.240 around the country

01:25:01.840 to say, hey,

01:25:02.520 now's the time,

01:25:03.340 go get Hillary Clinton.

01:25:04.720 That never happened.

01:25:06.380 And so I think

01:25:06.920 it's important

01:25:07.520 for the president

01:25:08.680 to understand

01:25:09.440 that our country

01:25:10.860 has to be able

01:25:11.680 to still be

01:25:12.400 a united country,

01:25:13.660 which is becoming

01:25:14.400 harder and harder

01:25:15.100 as the days go by

01:25:16.360 after the next

01:25:17.520 presidential election.

01:25:18.860 That's something

01:25:19.360 that all presidents

01:25:20.120 have to make sure

01:25:20.980 that they guard carefully.

01:25:22.980 Do you think,

01:25:25.020 because this trial

01:25:25.880 is likely to be going on

01:25:27.220 past November,

01:25:28.540 November 2024,

01:25:29.740 and with every moment

01:25:30.760 that the other two

01:25:31.400 are delayed,

01:25:32.020 those as well.

01:25:33.080 So we could have,

01:25:34.300 if Donald Trump

01:25:34.780 gets the GOP nomination,

01:25:36.040 a candidate

01:25:36.580 and potentially

01:25:37.160 even a president

01:25:37.840 who's having to deal

01:25:39.020 with this stuff

01:25:39.660 while the leader

01:25:41.220 of the free world.

01:25:43.440 How do you,

01:25:44.500 how do you factor that in?

01:25:45.940 Because the concern

01:25:46.980 in Republican circles,

01:25:48.280 even though they don't

01:25:48.760 like these prosecutions,

01:25:49.700 they don't believe

01:25:50.180 that they're valid,

01:25:51.380 is that it's going

01:25:52.740 to do what some

01:25:54.920 of these prosecutors

01:25:55.420 may hope,

01:25:56.240 which is hamper him

01:25:57.500 electorally.

01:25:59.060 And that it's going

01:25:59.880 to be very hard

01:26:00.620 if he becomes the nominee

01:26:01.500 for him to run

01:26:02.160 against somebody

01:26:02.720 with three indictments

01:26:04.500 around his neck.

01:26:05.600 The other person's

01:26:06.380 going to try to play

01:26:07.040 high road,

01:26:07.760 Joe Biden,

01:26:08.340 Kamala Harris,

01:26:08.820 whoever winds up being

01:26:09.580 is probably Biden.

01:26:10.840 You know,

01:26:11.520 it's unfortunate

01:26:12.260 that we're dealing

01:26:13.260 with a felon,

01:26:14.220 an accused felon

01:26:15.040 on the other side

01:26:15.580 of the aisle.

01:26:16.380 That's not what

01:26:16.860 American needs.

01:26:17.900 You know,

01:26:18.060 we don't need to put

01:26:18.620 the country through this.

01:26:19.920 We're going to get

01:26:20.300 a lot of that

01:26:20.860 if this plays out

01:26:21.840 as I just described.

01:26:23.820 So that's an argument

01:26:24.860 potentially for somebody

01:26:26.080 other than Trump.

01:26:26.740 How do you see that?

01:26:28.420 It's going to be

01:26:29.060 a tough one,

01:26:29.820 but, you know,

01:26:30.260 my argument back

01:26:31.580 will be like,

01:26:32.980 Joe Biden's been

01:26:33.900 a disastrous president.

01:26:35.280 Who cares

01:26:35.860 if the activist DAs

01:26:38.360 have left him alone?

01:26:39.300 Who cares

01:26:39.740 if they've not looked

01:26:40.440 into the fact

01:26:41.140 that his family

01:26:42.160 has been getting

01:26:42.740 millions of dollars

01:26:43.620 from the Chinese?

01:26:44.900 The truth of the matter

01:26:45.820 is that our border

01:26:46.940 is wide open.

01:26:47.700 Our economy is a mess.

01:26:49.300 Foreign policy is a mess.

01:26:50.540 We're leading from behind.

01:26:52.100 Americans are not

01:26:52.900 in the position

01:26:53.360 they're supposed to be in,

01:26:54.540 and he's only going

01:26:55.300 to make it worse.

01:26:56.560 The second thing

01:26:57.060 I would say,

01:26:57.540 and this is just more

01:26:58.140 on a practical side,

01:26:59.800 it'll be very difficult

01:27:00.940 for Alvin Bragg

01:27:02.680 or anybody else

01:27:03.520 to have this case

01:27:04.960 with a sitting president

01:27:06.040 of the United States.

01:27:07.700 I think the American people

01:27:08.840 are going to look

01:27:09.700 through this

01:27:10.020 for what it is.

01:27:11.080 A lot of this

01:27:11.580 is going to depend

01:27:12.440 on how,

01:27:13.040 you know,

01:27:13.260 if it is Donald Trump

01:27:14.580 as a nominee,

01:27:15.140 how he manages

01:27:16.520 that situation

01:27:17.620 through the November election

01:27:19.020 and how the radical

01:27:20.400 left responds to this

01:27:21.520 because that's going

01:27:23.000 to be one of their

01:27:23.620 key talking points.

01:27:24.560 They're going to keep

01:27:25.060 pressing that point,

01:27:26.060 but it's essentially

01:27:27.220 like saying,

01:27:27.740 how can you say

01:27:28.440 I'm not qualified

01:27:29.300 when the person

01:27:30.500 coming after me

01:27:31.360 is you?

01:27:32.520 You know,

01:27:32.740 it's not like

01:27:33.120 it's just normal people

01:27:34.060 coming after me.

01:27:34.820 It's you crazy people

01:27:35.780 are coming after me,

01:27:37.180 and you're trying

01:27:37.760 to use that to say

01:27:38.540 that now I'm not qualified

01:27:39.940 to hold the highest

01:27:41.560 office in the land,

01:27:42.920 which, by the way,

01:27:43.660 I've already done once

01:27:44.780 and I did the job

01:27:46.040 better than you.

01:27:47.760 It's crazy

01:27:48.440 because it's really

01:27:48.920 like you're bullies.

01:27:50.540 Your bullies

01:27:51.040 have punched you

01:27:52.140 repeatedly.

01:27:53.080 You got a couple

01:27:53.820 bumps and bruises,

01:27:54.760 but you're still standing.

01:27:56.040 And then the bullies

01:27:57.000 want to say,

01:27:57.440 look at all the bumps

01:27:57.940 and bruises on him.

01:27:58.680 Do you really want to

01:27:59.300 do you really want

01:27:59.860 to elect him?

01:28:00.840 And they run a real risk

01:28:02.260 of the electorate saying,

01:28:03.280 we understand how

01:28:04.160 those bumps and bruises

01:28:04.900 got there,

01:28:05.440 and we respect the man

01:28:06.400 for still standing.

01:28:08.160 Congressman Byron Donald,

01:28:09.120 please come back.

01:28:09.820 I'd love to have

01:28:10.300 a longer talk.

01:28:10.960 I'd love to do

01:28:11.500 an in-depth profile

01:28:12.820 on you,

01:28:13.360 your whole history

01:28:14.520 and your run.

01:28:15.500 It's all been fascinating.

01:28:18.280 Well, listen,

01:28:18.680 anytime,

01:28:19.200 I would love to come back,

01:28:20.580 love the podcast,

01:28:21.540 like I said,

01:28:22.280 and looking forward

01:28:23.280 to listening to more.

01:28:24.660 Thank you.

01:28:25.180 Thank you so much.

01:28:25.940 All the best.

01:28:26.900 Tomorrow,

01:28:27.480 we're going to be joined

01:28:28.040 by our friends

01:28:28.480 from Ruthless,

01:28:29.420 and we'll take a deep dive

01:28:30.660 into other things,

01:28:31.640 the media.

01:28:35.240 Thanks for listening

01:28:36.020 to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:28:37.340 No BS,

01:28:38.240 no agenda,

01:28:39.080 and no fear.

01:28:39.900 I will be joined

01:28:42.240 by our host of the

01:28:44.440 The Megyn Kelly Show,

01:28:49.380 and we'll see you next time.

01:28:54.540 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 05, 2023

The Weak Case Against President Trump, with Rep. Byron Donalds, Arthur Aidala, Dave Aronberg, and Brad Smith ｜ Ep. 522

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript