The Megyn Kelly Show - Threats Aimed at Kavanaugh, and a Free Speech Culture, with Greg Lukianoff and Anjelah Johnson-Reyes

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00:00:31.160 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:33.120 Your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.040 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:46.040 Protesters once again targeting Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh

00:00:49.980 and it's disgusting. It's absolutely disgusting what they're doing.

00:00:53.860 This time they forced him to run out the back of a D.C. area steakhouse.

00:00:59.020 According to reports, the protesters gathered outside of Morton's steakhouse

00:01:02.480 after finding out that Justice Kavanaugh was there.

00:01:05.940 They reached out to the manager and demanded that our sitting Supreme Court justice

00:01:11.740 be kicked out.

00:01:13.820 Morton's, to its credit, said,

00:01:15.500 You're lunatics.

00:01:17.220 Okay, that's what I said, but basically they said no dice.

00:01:19.640 And now they are reportedly condemning the actions of the protesters.

00:01:24.300 Morton's just as mad as we are about this,

00:01:27.500 saying that these protesters unduly harassed the Justice and other patrons

00:01:30.980 and calling it shameful.

00:01:33.500 Kavanaugh was forced to exit through a back door.

00:01:36.440 And the protesters love that.

00:01:39.000 They're celebrating it.

00:01:40.360 Keep in mind this comes weeks after a 22-year-old man was arrested near Kavanaugh's home

00:01:44.800 after threatening to kill him.

00:01:47.780 Right?

00:01:48.380 That's the tension.

00:01:49.620 That's the tenor of the conversation around Justice Kavanaugh

00:01:53.460 and some of these conservative justices now.

00:01:55.960 And yet this group gleefully encourages people to continue doing this.

00:02:01.320 Continue targeting him.

00:02:02.420 This will be fun.

00:02:03.620 We'll try to ruin his life.

00:02:04.840 How about cost him his life?

00:02:06.780 That's a real risk in this behavior,

00:02:09.400 which no one seems to give two dams about on the side of the protesters.

00:02:13.500 Today, we are joined by one of the most important voices

00:02:17.120 on the issue of free speech and due process and a lawyer himself.

00:02:22.380 Greg Lukianoff is the CEO and president of FIRE.

00:02:26.520 This group was focused on education exclusively and free speech rights on campus.

00:02:31.960 But recently, to all of our excitement,

00:02:35.380 it has expanded its efforts and its mission

00:02:37.660 and changed its name slightly to now the Foundation for Individual Rights,

00:02:41.760 not in education, but for individual rights and expression

00:02:45.140 because their mission is much wider.

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00:03:22.380 Greg, welcome back.

00:03:24.060 Good to be in here, Megan.

00:03:25.760 I'm so ticked off about the Kavanaugh thing.

00:03:28.240 It's insane.

00:03:29.680 And I realized, OK, you know, this group shut down D.C.

00:03:33.040 They can run around calling him whatever names they want to call him.

00:03:35.460 Fine.

00:03:35.900 That's their right, as you know.

00:03:37.880 They can go protest outside of the Supreme Court.

00:03:39.960 That's uniquely American.

00:03:41.020 Love that.

00:03:41.500 As a matter of fact, I think that's awesome,

00:03:43.020 even if I don't agree with what they're saying.

00:03:45.680 But going to his house is a different thing.

00:03:48.400 It actually does violate at least one law on paper.

00:03:51.040 And targeting the man in his personal life,

00:03:54.240 as he sits with friends or family, I don't know who he's with,

00:03:57.560 trying to have a meal.

00:03:58.840 And they're not done.

00:04:00.260 They're not done, Greg.

00:04:00.980 I mean, this group is tweeting out that they want more.

00:04:03.880 Or that hold on, I want to get the first of all,

00:04:07.240 they're celebrating per Politico that they got a tip where he was eating.

00:04:10.880 And then all the protesters rushed.

00:04:12.580 They showed up out front.

00:04:13.740 That's when they called the manager demanding that he be kicked out,

00:04:17.140 forced to exit through the rear,

00:04:19.200 snuck out the back with his security detail.

00:04:22.980 And now they're out there saying more, more, more.

00:04:26.580 Shut down D.C. tweets today.

00:04:28.080 No rights for us.

00:04:29.760 No peace for you.

00:04:30.720 Get effed at Morton's.

00:04:32.960 P.S.

00:04:33.440 Eat the rich.

00:04:34.640 And they retweeted this.

00:04:36.640 I wish every Supreme Court justice a very fuck you.

00:04:39.900 Leave the kitchen.

00:04:41.080 I hope you didn't pay for it and didn't get dessert.

00:04:43.100 And on it goes.

00:04:44.180 What are your thoughts?

00:04:45.800 Well, from a First Amendment standpoint, I mean, I live in D.C.

00:04:48.820 Can they protest, you know, from the public street?

00:04:51.500 And this is to keep in mind, this is downtown.

00:04:53.200 This is two blocks away from the White House.

00:04:54.880 So if they're doing a peaceful protest outside of a restaurant,

00:04:58.400 they're absolutely willing to have the rights to do that.

00:05:00.420 Where it starts getting a little dicier is if they're, you know,

00:05:03.000 preventing people from getting into the getting into the restaurant.

00:05:06.060 If they're actually, you know, shutting down operations there,

00:05:08.580 that kind of stuff, then there's very common sense limitations

00:05:11.600 on what you can and can't do in this kind of protest.

00:05:14.560 I get why people are, you know, frustrated or think it's just completely wrong

00:05:19.440 to target someone in their personal capacity.

00:05:21.260 But as a matter of rights, this is something that has happened,

00:05:24.100 you know, since since the dawn of the republic.

00:05:25.900 Now, I was happy to see in The Washington Post that they were covering the fact

00:05:30.020 that there was someone who was arrested, you know, for plotting to kill Kavanaugh,

00:05:34.260 which was not, in my opinion, getting nearly nearly enough coverage.

00:05:38.380 And that's that's a sobering fact that people really need to be presented with.

00:05:42.240 And when you and one thing I want to be extremely clear about, you know,

00:05:44.980 threats to kill somebody, threats of bodily harm or death.

00:05:48.240 Those are not protected north.

00:05:49.640 Should they be?

00:05:50.180 You know, the it to me, it's not even about whether it's protected speech.

00:05:56.000 It's about the bounds of decency in and what kind of society we want to live in.

00:06:01.420 We cannot have Supreme Court justices under constant threat like this disruption to their

00:06:07.800 personal life.

00:06:08.520 And this group, I'll give you an example.

00:06:11.040 They they tweeted out.

00:06:13.100 It's called Shutdown, D.C.

00:06:14.300 And they continue to tweet out his personal information and call for protests against them

00:06:18.940 in their personal spaces.

00:06:20.460 And this one this morning was D.C.

00:06:22.600 service industry workers, meaning, you know, all waiters, waitresses, everybody everywhere.

00:06:26.320 If you see Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Coney Barrett or Roberts, DM us with the details.

00:06:31.480 Exclamation point will then mow you fifty dollars for a confirmed sighting and two hundred dollars

00:06:38.440 if they're still there.

00:06:40.020 Thirty minutes after your message, someone responded, you are literally putting a bounty on Supreme

00:06:44.940 Court justices heads and Shutdown, D.C.

00:06:47.280 responded.

00:06:47.780 No, we're putting a bounty on their dinners because Shutdown, D.C., I'm sure, has perfect

00:06:52.540 accuracy in its prediction of who will show up, what their motivation will be, whether

00:06:57.340 they will be a dangerous person.

00:06:58.960 Right.

00:06:59.220 I mean, they're playing with fire here, so to speak.

00:07:02.200 Greg.

00:07:03.280 Yeah.

00:07:03.840 Well, that's one of the things that we point out a lot in higher ed is trying to get people

00:07:07.500 to put themselves in the shoes, you know, of what if it was someone they really liked

00:07:11.740 being targeted in this way.

00:07:13.160 And even though the law protects this, you know, the can versus should part is a big part

00:07:18.160 of, you know, the analysis in a democracy.

00:07:21.320 But unfortunately, we seem to have, you know, gotten entirely out of the idea that that you

00:07:27.760 should put yourself in the person you're censoring shoes, the person that you're targeting

00:07:31.740 shoes.

00:07:32.540 They say they tweeted out Ruth Ruth sent us.

00:07:36.260 That's the one that's been protesting outside of the justices homes.

00:07:39.260 It was Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Amy Barrett.

00:07:41.860 Amy Coney Barrett this week and last.

00:07:44.140 I mean, honestly, like they both have children.

00:07:45.960 She has she has a 10 year old child.

00:07:48.600 This is beyond.

00:07:51.300 So they continue protesting out there.

00:07:53.080 And Ruth sent us.

00:07:54.760 They tweeted out how the protesters found out that Kavanaugh was there.

00:07:58.380 They said one of our regular one of our regular Wednesday SCOTUS six protesters sent us this

00:08:04.300 text.

00:08:05.140 Morton's needed me to work tonight, but mother effing Brett Kavanaugh is here eating.

00:08:09.820 He could probably hear you from the street.

00:08:11.840 So we should know Morton should be able to figure out who this was, who released the

00:08:16.840 fact that Justice Kavanaugh was was eating there.

00:08:19.460 This is a security issue.

00:08:20.660 That person should be fired immediately.

00:08:22.300 I'm 100 percent fired.

00:08:23.220 And then they they tweet out the following.

00:08:26.060 The nation's rage is growing.

00:08:28.320 What would you do if you were his waiter?

00:08:32.040 That that's obviously threatening.

00:08:34.700 And the Supreme Court security team ought to be looking at that.

00:08:37.620 What they need food tasters.

00:08:39.000 Now, we just left Rome with our kids where the tour guide was explaining to our little

00:08:44.400 kid, our eight year old, among others, and the other three.

00:08:47.560 How many do I have?

00:08:48.660 Three total.

00:08:49.060 About how the pope still has a food tester because there's been, you know, such a long history

00:08:55.980 of the pope's quietly being assassinated.

00:08:58.400 My son Thatcher said, that's a terrible job, which it is.

00:09:03.160 But are we at the point now we're going to need that for the justices?

00:09:05.900 Will you get these lunatics tweeting out?

00:09:07.400 What would you do if you were his waiter?

00:09:08.820 What is that supposed to mean?

00:09:09.880 It's just getting very disturbing.

00:09:12.420 Yeah.

00:09:12.600 And just as Morton can decide not to serve whatever customers they don't want, you don't

00:09:17.620 have to continue to hire a waiter who you think actually ratted out someone who was there.

00:09:24.900 So, yeah, it's difficult times for the republic.

00:09:27.880 And one thing that I point out is that sometimes on both sides, both extremes of the right and

00:09:33.600 the left, there's an idea that kind of like the time is over for free speech or civility

00:09:37.520 or other democratic, other democratic norms.

00:09:40.480 But I always point out, particularly when it comes to freedom of speech, that's when

00:09:43.780 all of these other things fall apart.

00:09:45.960 That's when the rules of the game become more important, not less.

00:09:50.480 They just adding some more to it.

00:09:53.360 The protesters got to Morton's.

00:09:54.640 They waited at the entrance.

00:09:55.580 Justice Kavanaugh got out the back and they tweeted out.

00:09:58.760 This is their messaging from Ruth sent us again.

00:10:01.600 A tweet saying Kavanaugh just snuck out with security through the loading dock.

00:10:05.540 You should have seen how scared he was.

00:10:07.260 It's pretty hilarious.

00:10:08.880 Also, Clarence Thomas is a regular here.

00:10:11.160 There will be hashtag no peace for sexual deviance.

00:10:15.580 Now, I assume they're referring to the Blasey Ford claims against Kavanaugh, the Anita Hill

00:10:21.260 claims against Thomas.

00:10:22.780 Strange, though, because I don't see them doing this to Joe Biden, who's been credibly accused

00:10:26.820 by Tara Reid and many others of odd behavior, weird grooming type behavior towards 12 year

00:10:33.320 old girls and so on.

00:10:34.520 They don't they don't want to do this to their side.

00:10:36.540 They just want to target justices who got smeared totally unfairly during their confirmation

00:10:41.640 hearing.

00:10:42.540 It's also really weird to hear people on the left, you know, quote unquote, targeting sexual

00:10:46.920 deviance.

00:10:47.420 Like, basically, that was what they used to call gay people, you know, like so it's a

00:10:50.600 borrowing that link.

00:10:51.540 It's just it's driven.

00:10:52.980 And by the way, that's their bread and butter.

00:10:54.480 Take a look at the presidents they've elected, you know, Bill Clinton.

00:10:56.760 Oh, what's he?

00:10:58.000 He's OK.

00:11:00.140 Anyway, I feel very uncomfortable with where it's going.

00:11:02.480 And it's not that they don't have the right to say these things or be obnoxious.

00:11:07.000 They have the legal right because we live in that kind of a country.

00:11:10.760 But I mean, you could cross a line.

00:11:12.800 You're the expert on free speech.

00:11:13.940 You could cross a line where, you know, you directly encourage them to show up.

00:11:18.360 And if you directly encourage violence and then violence happens, that's what they're

00:11:22.520 trying to say.

00:11:22.980 Trump did on January 6th legal incitement.

00:11:25.820 But the standard is very high, very high.

00:11:27.960 They'd have to cross a lot more bars before you could get them on that same same as with

00:11:32.800 Trump on January 6th.

00:11:34.700 Yeah, something I have to explain a lot.

00:11:36.020 There's a lot of common sense sort of built into the way we interpret the First Amendment.

00:11:40.000 That's why when I go to other countries, I'm the obnoxious American saying that, you

00:11:43.780 know, the way they do it in Europe with the ridiculous restrictions on free speech.

00:11:46.880 It's like they think that we have something where, you know, threatening somebody actually,

00:11:50.880 you know, stalking someone and harassing them is they think that anything goes.

00:11:55.260 It's like, no, we've actually got 100 years of solid common sense thinking on these

00:11:59.520 kind of things.

00:11:59.980 But one rule is that you can't censor somebody just because you don't like their point of

00:12:03.640 view.

00:12:04.720 You know, the sort of propaganda around this issue, around Dobbs being decided by the Supreme

00:12:10.540 Court conservative majority, just looking for my note here, has led to so much just

00:12:16.340 misleading, you know, by by pundits in the press about how this is a right.

00:12:22.100 And, you know, it's been taken away as opposed to a Supreme Court decision that reversed an

00:12:27.340 earlier decision recognizing a right that is nowhere in the Constitution.

00:12:30.240 It is that's indisputable, not doesn't appear in the Constitution.

00:12:33.060 This guy, Ali Mastal, Ali Mastal with The Nation and an MSNBC contributor, writes, quote,

00:12:40.200 quote, the right of white men to eat dinner in peace without being interrupted by mouthy

00:12:45.600 women complaining about politics or who has access to their bodies was well established

00:12:51.060 at the founding of this nation.

00:12:53.500 Quote, near Neil Gorsuch soon joined by Kavanaugh, suggesting that's what they're like.

00:12:59.220 These two are going to find that white men have a right to eat in peace without being bothered

00:13:03.240 by mouthy women. You get it all in there, Greg. You got white, right? Their race somehow

00:13:08.380 has to be injected into this. Of course, men, because, you know, Amy Coney Barrett's vagina

00:13:14.300 didn't give her special rights to issue the decision in Dobbs. But these men with the male

00:13:19.460 parts, forget it. They're not allowed to say what they want to say. And now just the demonization

00:13:25.020 of them, as opposed to like saying they have a conservative judicial philosophy makes sense

00:13:28.500 with a conservative judicial philosophy. By the way, even liberals like Lawrence Tribe

00:13:32.160 have criticized Roe as poorly founded. You've got to go after them for all of their

00:13:38.240 identity issues.

00:13:41.020 Mm hmm. Yeah. Actually, this is a good time as any to announce. I'm writing a book with

00:13:45.780 Ricky Schlott.

00:13:46.980 I love her.

00:13:48.340 Yeah. Who you've worked with called Canceling of the American Mind. And while it's about free

00:13:52.320 speech and the legal rights, it's also about the way we argue as a society at the moment and

00:13:57.240 saying that we figured out this Byzantine system to actually never address what someone's saying

00:14:02.160 on the merits, to immediately make it personal about the person. The sort of ad hominem ways

00:14:07.660 certainly have the right to engage in ad hominem arguments. But if you care at all about getting

00:14:12.260 closer to the truth, that's not going to get you there.

00:14:14.940 It's just so distressing to me. And they don't show any signs of stopping. I do want to point

00:14:19.800 out we played this the other day. Sam B went on TV. She's still on TV. I'm not exactly

00:14:26.680 sure where this is from. And specifically called out to her followers to do this. We have the

00:14:34.020 clip. Here it is.

00:14:34.800 I can't describe how painful it is to be here now in a place where the Supreme Court has the power

00:14:41.020 to erase 50 years of constitutional law. Make no mistake, this is not where it ends.

00:14:46.980 Conservatives will not rest until they have come for all of our rights. And we have to raise hell

00:14:51.560 in our cities, in Washington, in every restaurant Justice Alito eats at for the rest of his life.

00:14:57.860 Because if Republicans have made our lives hell, it's time to return the favor.

00:15:03.080 There we go. There we go. I mean, I wouldn't I would not think I would still not think even if

00:15:08.620 she said that and violence had erupted against Kavanaugh at the restaurant or Alito, it's still

00:15:14.020 not incitement. Right. Yeah. No, it wouldn't cross the line of incitement. And the incitement

00:15:19.520 standard being very high is overall a good thing. But this is one of the things that seems to have

00:15:25.880 fallen out of the discussion a lot. There are some things that are supposed to be decided in the realm

00:15:29.600 of politics, like just as much as they are allowed to criticize and protest, calling people

00:15:35.620 counter protesting for one thing or saying that we think this is inappropriate. That's the way we're

00:15:41.460 supposed to handle a lot, a lot more of these things in a at least in a healthy republic. I'm

00:15:45.640 not sure that's where we are at the moment. It would have been great. I don't know what happened,

00:15:49.900 but it would have been great if you had seen people come out of Morton's and start chanting as well,

00:15:56.500 like get out of here, like leave him alone. Of course, as tempers ratchet up, so does the danger.

00:16:03.040 So it's these things you do have to worry. And there's a reason that these justices now have to have

00:16:07.760 round the clock protection. And so do their children because they're being blamed for this

00:16:12.320 decision. So the whole thing is out of control. And by the way, we still haven't found the Supreme

00:16:16.400 Court leaker, still haven't found the Supreme Court leaker. And I have to I have to say the more time

00:16:21.220 that goes by, the less we're supposed to take it seriously. It's like if the Supreme Court is not

00:16:27.500 taking the endangerment of these justices via that leak seriously, why should the nation like they got

00:16:33.140 to get on there, you know, get on it and find the damn leaker if they haven't already, because I'm

00:16:38.380 starting to lose faith. And actually, it's causing more and more people to wonder whether it was a

00:16:41.920 justice, whether they do know who the leaker was, but they're protecting him or her.

00:16:47.120 Yeah, no, I'm a member of the Supreme Court bar, and I've never seen a historical moment like this.

00:16:52.720 Yeah. Just to give you the full Morton's statement, because it was pretty good. Honorable Supreme

00:16:59.320 Court, Justice Kavanaugh and all of our other patrons at the restaurant were unduly harassed

00:17:03.520 by unruly protesters while eating dinner at our Morton's restaurant. Politics, regardless of your

00:17:08.660 side or views, should not trample the freedom at play of the right to congregate and eat dinner.

00:17:14.160 There is a time and place for everything. Disturbing the dinner of all of our customers

00:17:19.360 was an act of selfishness and void of decency. That's exactly right. Selfishness and decency. And

00:17:26.120 that's like, look, you could potentially cross over in this behavior to where it does amount to

00:17:30.800 some sort of unlawful harassment. You know, that that can be a criminal charge. It's tough to turn

00:17:37.760 protest into that, even at one's home, though there are certain laws on the books, which we've

00:17:41.980 discussed with respect to the Supreme Court. But really, this is a matter of they need to be shamed.

00:17:46.700 They need to be shamed out of doing this. It is about decency and their selfishness and possibly

00:17:51.740 having the other patrons in the restaurant come out and say, get out of here. Leave him alone.

00:17:56.200 You know, like like him or dislike him. This is wrong. OK, so let's move on, because there are

00:18:02.340 some a couple of other things in the news about free speech that I think are interesting. I wanted

00:18:05.640 to ask you about Alex Berenson, one of the most provocative covid tweeters has been he was kicked

00:18:13.140 off Twitter permanently and now he just got back on. And it's actually very interesting. I don't know

00:18:17.540 if you know who this is, but he's a vaccine skeptic. I mean, he's just been pointing out

00:18:24.700 all along that the vaccines don't seem to do what the companies or the government are telling us they

00:18:31.780 do. And he's had questions certainly about the efficacy of masks and so on. So in August of last

00:18:39.180 year, almost 12 months later now, he was permanently suspended by Twitter over allegedly violating

00:18:45.440 their, quote, misinformation policy. And this is the final tweet that got him axed.

00:18:50.260 It doesn't stop infection or transmission. Don't think of it as a vaccine. Think of it at best

00:18:55.920 as a therapeutic with a limited window of efficacy and terrible side effect profile that must be dosed

00:19:03.140 in advance of illness. And we want to mandate it? Insanity. So he filed a lawsuit against them,

00:19:09.680 Greg. And it appears that he has won. He filed it in San Francisco, looks like federal court where

00:19:16.520 they're based. And the statement Berenson released as he's back on Twitter is the parties have come to

00:19:22.680 a mutually acceptable resolution. I have been reinstated. Twitter has acknowledged that my

00:19:27.120 tweets should not have led to my suspension at that time. To recap, last August, Twitter banned me

00:19:33.100 after I got five strikes under its covid-19 misinformation policy, which meant I had supposedly made claims

00:19:38.940 of fact that were, quote, demonstrably false or misleading and, quote, likely to impact public safety or cause

00:19:44.140 serious harm. That's the policy, Alex writes. That's what it takes to get a strike. Look it up. Now we come to

00:19:50.520 find those tweets, quote, should not have led to my suspension. And Alex writes, oopsie. And here's the part I

00:19:57.620 want to ask you about. The settlement does not end my investigation into the pressures that the government

00:20:05.420 may have placed on Twitter to suspend my account. I will have more to say on that issue in the near

00:20:11.760 future. And Elon Musk, who, of course, is in the midst of trying to buy Twitter more on that in a

00:20:16.320 minute. There's an update there, says tweets at Alex Berenson saying, can you please say more about

00:20:22.360 this, quote, pressures that the government may have placed on Twitter? Berenson responds, I wish I could,

00:20:27.440 Elon Musk, but the settlement with Twitter prevents me. However, in the near future, I hope and expect to have

00:20:32.120 more to report. Now we're in a very dangerous free speech territory. Twitter suppressing Alex is one

00:20:38.060 thing. The the federal government pressuring them to do it is another go. Yeah, no, this is concerning

00:20:46.860 the you know, I'm not used to a situation because Twitter is, of course, a private company so that

00:20:51.560 they have free speech rights and association rights of their own. But there's a line, you know,

00:20:56.600 when the government is actually saying you have to kick these people off, you have to fire that

00:21:00.320 journalist, all that kind of stuff where it starts actually looking a lot more like state action,

00:21:04.680 which is bound, which is prevented by the First Amendment. And the the whole misinformation

00:21:10.740 argument scares me because, you know, free speech is all about the fact that none of us are all

00:21:16.540 knowing none of us are omniscient, you know, and the idea that we can say definitively that any given

00:21:22.140 speaker is absolutely for all times, you know, wrong, or for that matter, isn't contributing something

00:21:27.260 to the argument just by being skeptical is misinformation opens up like a ability to censor

00:21:33.600 that's a mile wide. And people should be much more critical when it comes up because it's not

00:21:38.120 that easy to know the truth. And they're not even hiding it. I mean, Glenn Greenwald had a piece

00:21:43.160 last year. It was February, I think, of twenty twenty one calling out House Democrats saying they've made

00:21:49.560 no secret of their ultimate goal with these hearings that they're holding to exert control over the content

00:21:54.960 on online platforms. They called in the heads of Twitter, Facebook. And who is the other one?

00:22:01.300 Oh, Google and Google. Those three. They called them in and said they this is a quote from one of

00:22:07.140 the House Democrats. Industry self-regulation has failed and therefore we must begin the work of

00:22:12.120 changing incentives, driving social media companies to allow and even promote misinformation

00:22:17.200 and disinformation. So this is this is them trying to use state power to change what the social media

00:22:23.420 platforms will allow on their sites. This is why Vivek Ramaswamy had a piece last year arguing in the

00:22:33.780 Wall Street Journal that we do need to take a hard look at whether when thanks to both the carrot and

00:22:39.000 the stick being used against the social media companies by the government, they've they've

00:22:43.800 transformed into something much closer to a state actor that we could treat them, though private,

00:22:48.860 as more of a public entity for purposes of free speech. What do you think?

00:22:53.960 I mean, that line exists and the and the amount of of of of encouragement, of coercive action that the

00:23:03.800 government's taking, that that's going to be the key question. But it's already at a stage where it's

00:23:07.840 kind of like, OK, you're really pushing on the social media companies to, you know, for example,

00:23:13.400 exclude some of Joe Rogan's episodes. And it's like, OK, that's even even if you don't think you're

00:23:22.180 crossing in the line of an abuse of power, which is which is debatable. You know, one thing that the

00:23:27.340 new fire of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, you know, tries to emphasize are these

00:23:31.680 norms about freedom of speech, about free speech culture. And the idea that kind of like you,

00:23:37.080 you are also knowing that you can decide for people in advance what they are or are not allowed

00:23:42.080 to hear is fundamentally troubling. And it's also incredibly, frankly, arrogant.

00:23:48.100 Yes. Oh, this is I want to talk about this. I also want to I forgot to mention my friend,

00:23:51.840 my friend, Jed Rubenstein, who was the co-author of that Wall Street Journal piece with Vivek,

00:23:55.760 well worth everyone's time. Humility, free speech and humility go hand in hand. And this is part of

00:24:03.000 earlier this week, we had Noah Rothman, who has a new book out called The New Puritans on how

00:24:06.560 sort of these wokesters who are trying to police everybody's speech are just like the old Puritans

00:24:11.100 and they are totally against fun and they think they know better. And there's a condescension to

00:24:16.340 the way they try to police all of our speech and thoughts and so on. And it's that's the opposite

00:24:21.360 of humility, which is the willingness to admit you don't know everything. Not all of your opinions

00:24:27.360 may be perfectly, quote, right. And that in this country, we prize something above being right

00:24:32.460 anyway, which is debate and freedom of expression and the ability to duke it out.

00:24:40.000 Well, this is one of just in the past couple of weeks, you know, I've been seeing, you know,

00:24:45.120 mainstream, you know, mainstream media outlets coming out with things and assertions that were

00:24:51.640 considered misinformation and disinformation at the beginning of covid. You know, so it's the what is

00:24:57.840 popularly known has already changed. And we haven't apologized, you know, to some of the people who

00:25:03.560 got their accounts shut down because they actually said, hey, maybe actually that. And the funny thing

00:25:08.940 about when you mentioned the getting Alex getting in trouble for saying that the vaccines are more of

00:25:15.300 a therapeutic. I mean, I've heard very pro vaccine people say essentially that that it doesn't prevent

00:25:20.540 transmission. So it's one of these things where if someone is selling you a bill of goods that,

00:25:25.320 oh, yeah, we have perfect knowledge at this at this moment, we always think we have perfect knowledge

00:25:30.240 and we're always wrong. How do you make of because I mean, I think I know the answer, but what do you

00:25:35.760 make of the fact that Alex sued Twitter, you know, that of using the courts to battle these overreaches?

00:25:44.360 Well, I mean, one thing that that we see, like so, for example, like fire, we fight private colleges.

00:25:50.180 And even though private colleges are not bound by the First Amendment, they do make promises of

00:25:56.320 freedom of speech. They do make promises of academic freedom. And a lot of these social media

00:26:00.220 companies, they have, you know, at least some minimal guarantees of process and minimal guarantees

00:26:05.200 of, you know, that we won't shut down people because of their viewpoint. And if they if they're

00:26:10.420 promising that contractually speaking, then you potentially have a lawsuit.

00:26:13.480 That's how he won. He tweeted out a step by step guide and basically said if Twitter had just

00:26:20.700 had issued no terms of service, they would have won. But because they said, here's our five strike

00:26:27.580 procedure. And, you know, these are the circumstances under which we would permanently

00:26:31.860 ban somebody. And they didn't follow it in his case. And it seemed tailored, you know, specifically

00:26:38.420 after the fact to get Alex off Twitter. That's why he won. So just because it's a private company,

00:26:45.680 it's not true that they can just do whatever they want. There are terms of service and there are

00:26:50.360 implicit and explicit promises in some cases to the users on what they will and will not do.

00:26:56.820 It's helpful, right, to have a lawyer to at least look into a lawyer to call a group like yours and say,

00:27:01.800 do I have something or don't I? And so is that something that you like with the new fire,

00:27:06.420 the new and expanded fire that's off of the college campuses, not off, but adding to help

00:27:11.180 in a case like this for a civilian? We're always willing to answer questions. And particularly when

00:27:17.160 you start having that nexus between, you know, government coercion. One thing that we want to do

00:27:22.020 to target social media, first of all, we, you know, we promote free speech norms, you know,

00:27:27.100 like hearing people out, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, all of these old idioms of a free

00:27:32.680 society. But we want to go a little further with social media. And we're still, you know,

00:27:37.080 we just launched about a month ago, the new expanded mission. So we're still, you know,

00:27:41.420 figuring a lot of stuff out. But one thing I would love to be able to do is to use market pressure on

00:27:47.400 social media and give them ratings in terms of like this, you know, this social media site,

00:27:53.180 if you have controversial opinions, if you want free speech, go to this one. This one gets a D or an F

00:27:58.900 or however we decide to do the ratings. I think that just because something isn't a state actor

00:28:03.900 doesn't mean they're above criticism. And you would think sometimes that people who normally

00:28:08.580 are fairly critical of corporations suddenly are like, well, no, the social media companies can do

00:28:12.760 whatever they want. They can't violate their own promises and they can't avoid criticism if they're

00:28:17.400 going to kick people off for saying, for just having, you know, the wrong opinion.

00:28:22.300 Yeah. It's disturbing because while the courts remain a very important part

00:28:27.580 of this fight against this, you know, identity politics and wokeism and censorship and so on,

00:28:34.340 they're not, it's not good enough. You know, what we really need is for people

00:28:39.240 in their hearts to prize free speech and to be against this. I think it was somebody on my team

00:28:47.620 forwarded me. I'll find it someplace. But it was Judge Learned Hand's take on this, talking about how,

00:28:54.900 you know, I understand, obviously, the Constitution is important and laws are important. But once

00:29:01.000 you've lost the desire for liberty in your heart, there's very little hope for society. And that's

00:29:08.560 what's really disturbing about what's going on here. The social media companies, the people

00:29:12.920 pressuring them, in this case, House Democrats, you know, they've lost the desire for liberty in their

00:29:18.940 hearts. Mm hmm. Yeah. Oh, well, and everybody should check out the speech. It's a 1944 speech

00:29:26.140 given by Judge Learned Hand, one of the probably the most famous lawyer who never made it to the

00:29:30.340 Supreme Court, you know, of all time. It's absolutely beautiful. It's a beautiful poetry

00:29:35.380 about this. It's called the spirit of liberty. And it's something that Americans tweeted it out. That's

00:29:40.000 why it was in my packet. Sorry. Keep going, Greg. It's we also have an audio version of it because

00:29:44.360 it's kind of our lodestar when it comes to free speech culture, because it's just such a beautiful

00:29:48.640 expression of the of this idea. One of the things that I talk about is like the true spirit of

00:29:54.120 liberty is that which is not always sure that it is right. And I say this on campuses, like it's like

00:29:59.800 I'm saying a Zen cone, it like blows people's mind. Like, what does that even mean? It's like, no,

00:30:03.980 there are all these norms that mean that mean make our constitutional norms matter, because there's a

00:30:09.620 million countries out there who have promises of free speech nominally in their constitutions and in

00:30:14.960 their laws. But if they don't have the culture to back it up, it ends up meaning pretty much nothing.

00:30:20.740 Yes, this is. So you tweeted on Independence Day. This is what he writes in part.

00:30:26.040 What do we mean when we say that, first of all, we seek liberty? This is Judge Learned Hand, 1944.

00:30:32.620 I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon

00:30:38.540 courts. These are false hopes. Believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men

00:30:44.440 and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it.

00:30:52.880 That's I mean, it's profound and it's true and it's slightly depressing.

00:30:57.900 Let me ask you this, though, absolutely. As so much of what he did was Elon Musk,

00:31:04.340 the purchase of Twitter. I support it 100 percent, as most people most

00:31:08.540 people who are not far left do, I think, because he's way more pro-free speech than the people

00:31:13.320 running Twitter now. But the latest news today is this is per The Washington Post. His deal is in

00:31:19.500 peril. It's in, quote, serious jeopardy, according to three people familiar with the matter.

00:31:24.520 His team has stopped engaging in certain discussions around funding for the $44 billion deal,

00:31:30.620 including with one party likely a backer of it. Somebody said somebody, one of the three people

00:31:37.300 close to it, said his team doubts the bot figures that they've been provided by by Twitter and they

00:31:44.520 don't think they have enough information to evaluate Twitter as a business. So that's kind

00:31:49.720 of depressing, too. We need we needed it to happen. It would have been nice to have one platform owned

00:31:55.920 by somebody who genuinely cares about and gets what free speech is.

00:31:59.740 Yeah, no, we did an open letter to Elon Musk saying that, listen, we don't want the government

00:32:06.680 coming in and saying that you have to abide by First Amendment norms. But we got about 100 years

00:32:11.840 of thoughtful, of thoughtful wisdom from people, including people like the great learned at hand

00:32:17.040 on how you can have free speech in the real world. So by all means, you know, look at that. But the

00:32:22.560 thing that I was kind of the most mind blowing, I think, for the American people, unfortunately,

00:32:26.600 by this point, I was kind of used to it to myself, was seeing that after so many articles, so many

00:32:31.680 think pieces, you know, particularly some really, truly atrocious programs on the media, on NPR,

00:32:38.200 that really came out with bad information about freedom of speech, straw man arguments, you know,

00:32:43.140 explaining that free speech is actually turns out actually free speech is not so great or not.

00:32:47.760 Those don't produce the same kind of negative reaction in Twitter, for example, as someone just

00:32:53.640 coming out and saying that I want Twitter to protect freedom of speech. The sheer freak out,

00:33:00.040 you know, of people when he just uttered, you know, the idea that this should do a better job

00:33:04.380 protecting freedom of speech really can show the American people to a degree how much the sort of

00:33:10.540 academic negative conception of freedom of speech, which was even unpopular on campus until fairly

00:33:15.900 recently, is winning the day with a lot of the most influential people in the country.

00:33:20.480 Hmm. And the other the flip side of that is forced speech, you know, forced, you will use

00:33:26.720 the pronouns of someone's choice, or you will be expelled or you will be fired more and more of

00:33:33.720 these. This is becoming mandated on campuses in employment. And is that legal? Well, there's the

00:33:41.360 question we'll leave hanging in the air while we squeeze in a quick break. And Greg will answer it

00:33:45.980 when we come back. We'll talk about some of the insanity that he's fighting.

00:33:48.520 My guest today is Greg Lukianoff for the organization FIRE, the Foundation for Individual

00:34:00.400 Rights and Expression. And if you don't already support them, you should because he's got your

00:34:04.480 back and he doesn't care whether you're a Republican or Democrat. His organization is

00:34:09.240 basically what the ACLU used to be, but no longer is. He's not about politics. He's about principle

00:34:15.760 and your lawsuits that you guys have brought right now that you have pending reflect that you you've

00:34:21.060 defended liberal students whose speech has been punished like a Black Lives Matter poster in a

00:34:27.340 window. And you've defended conservative students who have been punished. You don't care about

00:34:31.300 somebody's politics. What you care about is our Constitution. So good for you. And so give us a

00:34:36.740 minute on how you're expanding, because I even as your fan, I don't totally get get like how big

00:34:41.700 are we going here? Sure. Well, we're going very big. And we're currently an organization about 85

00:34:48.100 people. We're about a 20 million dollar organization now focused overwhelmingly on higher ed, but already

00:34:53.700 doing some amount of education about freedom of speech. We have K through 12 outreach. We have we were

00:34:59.600 expanding to begin with to some degree. But we decided that we needed to go beyond campus ASAP,

00:35:07.380 because frankly, 2020 was the worst year for free speech, at least in the US that I have seen,

00:35:13.620 period. And so even though we were thinking about maybe holding off expanding beyond campus until

00:35:19.440 2024, our 25th anniversary, we're like, this cannot wait. So we announced it about a month ago,

00:35:24.780 we're expanding the most in three places. Research, litigation, we're tripling our litigation

00:35:31.040 staff. And so, you know, lawyers out there, people who really care about freedom of speech,

00:35:36.180 contact us, apply for jobs, we need the best of the best. But the biggest thing we're doing,

00:35:40.600 and one thing I'm super excited about is doing a gigantic public education push, a series of

00:35:45.980 wonderfully moving ads that reminds people that free speech, just like Learned Hand, like to

00:35:51.320 remember us, is about these compelling, beautiful ideas about what a democracy, what a democratic

00:35:57.340 republic is supposed to look like. Or going a different way. I love that you're fighting it.

00:36:04.200 Um, I mentioned before the break, you know, this now push and more and more schools and even

00:36:09.920 companies to make the unwillingness to say somebody's preferred pronouns, effectively the

00:36:17.040 professional death penalty, like you, you can be fired for that, or you can be expelled for that. And

00:36:22.640 it's not just college. This isn't about pronouns, but it is about speech. Our friends over at FAIR

00:36:28.180 Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism sent this to us. Uh, the Hamilton Southeastern School Board

00:36:33.560 of Trustees in Indiana, right? So this is a heartland, just decided to change its K through 12

00:36:40.040 student handbook. You can now potentially get expelled for the following microaggressions,

00:36:47.780 right? All right, listen, here's a couple of examples. If you say to somebody, and it doesn't

00:36:52.100 matter what their skin color is, you are so articulate. The message they say is it's unusual

00:36:57.740 for someone of your race to be intelligent. So I guess it doesn't matter. If I say that to you

00:37:02.120 as a K through 12 student, I could basically be insulting your race, not your whatever. Um,

00:37:09.220 if you look at a person of color, I guess, I don't know, they just say, if I, if you look at

00:37:12.760 somebody and say, when I look at you, I don't see color. Well, that denies a person of color's racial

00:37:17.420 and ethnic experiences used to be a principle of Martin Luther King's, but now it can get you

00:37:22.500 expelled. Um, if you say, yeah, use of the pronoun of the pronouns, he, or the term guys to refer to

00:37:32.120 all people. So a teacher standing in front of a room full of kids saying, all right, guys, it's time

00:37:36.880 to wrap it up. Fired. Potentially could be suspended by this is insane. And yet when, when fair wrote to

00:37:44.620 them and complained, the board wrote back, uh, we're doubling down. No, a hundred percent. We

00:37:49.280 stand by every word. We're doing it in the heartland and beyond. Yeah. So microaggressions,

00:37:55.820 a lot of times people misunderstand what me and my coauthor, Jonathan height, you know,

00:37:59.320 are saying about microaggressions. Should you be aware of ways that you unintentionally insult

00:38:03.560 people without knowing it? Absolutely. Um, but when you try to, when you make these into rules,

00:38:08.400 you produce truly ridiculous and really scary, uh, results. Um, I mean, one of the ones that they

00:38:14.040 would talk about was, uh, as being a microaggression from the very beginning is asking someone where

00:38:18.640 they're from. I'm a first generation American. My mom's from Britain. My dad's, uh, from Russia

00:38:23.300 by way of Yugoslavia. Um, that was a very normal thing for immigrant kids and first generation

00:38:27.900 kids to ask. There's nothing that it wasn't considered. It was considered being incurious

00:38:31.980 to not ask that. So it really, it shows you how far we've gone from appreciating free speech,

00:38:37.740 both as a legal right, but also as a cultural right. If you're suddenly saying that actually

00:38:41.780 these things that we've now decided, um, are deeply offensive, even though we thought

00:38:46.280 the exact opposite were deeply offensive 10 years ago. Now these will get you kicked out

00:38:50.720 of K through 12. Um, it's been, it's been a very rapid slide over the last 10 years.

00:38:56.500 And yeah, I I'm right with fair. I'm very worried about these kinds of policies.

00:39:00.720 And even like the use of the pronoun he as a stand in for everybody, and we've been doing

00:39:05.220 that for time in memoriam. It's too laborious. It takes too much space on the paper to cover

00:39:10.780 everybody. What are you supposed to do in the case of emergency? Um, if one finds oneself

00:39:17.060 locked in, one should get the key. And then when one wants to leave, he, she, they say them

00:39:25.140 should come on. We need a short form. And it doesn't, as a woman, I've never felt offended

00:39:30.700 by this is absurd. This is like solving a problem that only a few loud, annoying people actually

00:39:36.520 have. In my first book on learning Liberty, I talk about the, the will to be offended,

00:39:41.740 that it's kind of a decision to figure out a way to be offended, because I think it makes

00:39:45.900 people feel, you know, elevated in some way. And when it comes to, I also think that there's

00:39:50.700 a sense that anybody before 2020, you know, was some kind of horrible, uh, troglodyte,

00:39:57.460 like they, they, they, they were evil and none of the stuff that occurred to people before.

00:40:00.960 And I grew up with a very strong sense that, uh, and so did, I think everybody else that guys,

00:40:05.460 you know, had become something that was completely gender neutral. Like when you're telling your

00:40:08.860 friends, Hey guys, let's go over here. And you have to decide to figure out a way to make that

00:40:13.080 offensive. I would say it when speaking to a group of women I'm, I'm out with that are all women.

00:40:19.440 I would say, Hey guys, are we ordering? What are we doing? Like what? Right. Gwendolyn shaking her

00:40:23.720 head. Yes. And she's young. Um, unlike me. Okay. So let's talk about the latest because the other

00:40:30.080 thing that I know that you guys have been saber rattling about in a good way is the title nine

00:40:35.060 revisions that the, that this administration is trying to push through and how wrong they are

00:40:43.040 for all of Trump's, you know, troubles in terms of whatever my audience heard me talk about his

00:40:47.720 temperament and so on. This is one of the greatest things he did. He reversed the Obama era's erasure

00:40:54.240 of due process process for young men accused on college campuses. And now Biden's bringing back

00:40:59.580 those problematic due process approaches. Uh, and I don't know, are they going to get away with it?

00:41:06.220 Greg outline what he's doing and whether you think he's going to get away with it.

00:41:10.360 Well, this has been, you know, battle, uh, you know, of, of my life, you know, my careers go,

00:41:14.560 goes back to 2001 and believe it or not, back then the department of education was actually saying

00:41:19.480 that if universities pass speech codes and claim that title nine made them do so, uh, that's not us.

00:41:25.180 Um, you can't, you know, if you go ahead and do that, um, you can't do that. If you're,

00:41:29.740 if you're bound by the first amendment, even if you're a private college, you shouldn't blame us

00:41:34.240 for that. And that'll change in 2011. That's when you started having the department of education under

00:41:38.800 Obama, you know, passing all of these new rules, limiting due process for people accused of sexual

00:41:43.920 harassment. People sometimes immediately jump to assault. It's like, no, it's actually about harassment.

00:41:48.420 Just rape is considered a kind of harassment and, uh, and so is assault, which is, which is an

00:41:54.160 interesting progression of law anyway. And then in 2013, they made an even bigger threat to freedom

00:41:59.140 of speech because your listeners might not know this, but since the eighties, those, those campus

00:42:03.820 speech codes that came out in the eighties, um, just 20 years after the free speech movement in Berkeley,

00:42:08.280 those were all harassment codes. And they all claimed that they had to pass these codes that may

00:42:12.840 be anything that could be deemed offensive, uh, you know, punishable under that university policy.

00:42:18.420 So we fought so hard to get rid of, um, these ridiculous codes. We knew that general counsels

00:42:24.740 at universities, if you get behind closed doors, we're saying this is impossible. We are being put

00:42:29.540 in a situation where we will be on the losing side of a due process lawsuit. If we implement these

00:42:34.660 policies, because they, they provide practice, they provide very little due process to those accused

00:42:39.220 of harassment and assault. And we, and we got the, we got these changes. Uh, Betsy DeVos's department

00:42:46.300 education did a great thing here. Um, they included limit limiting harassment, so it couldn't be used

00:42:50.780 against freedom of speech. And all that work has, has been undone despite the fact, by the way,

00:42:56.220 Megan, that there's been, you know, 200 cases almost so far where universities have been on the losing

00:43:01.700 side of cases. We're just trying to enforce the, these rules they're losing. And still they go ahead

00:43:07.860 and pass. They get rid of all these important reforms to title nine. Let's just talk about a

00:43:13.200 few of them because it really, it's shocking. It shocks the conscience, what they want to get rid

00:43:17.200 of, uh, things like the right to cross-examine your accuser and the right to see the evidence

00:43:25.140 against you. That it's insane. That's what Joe Biden wants to eliminate. Uh, among other things

00:43:31.620 for in particular, it tends to be young men, could be young women, but accused of sexual harassment on

00:43:36.900 college campuses. And if you get found guilty of one of these things, you get expelled. Usually

00:43:40.360 you get kicked out of the college and you get a label on you that follows you around like the

00:43:43.980 grim reaper. So you can't see the evidence against you and you can't cross-examine your accuser

00:43:49.700 anymore. And they're taking us back. I, as I understand it, Greg, to these kangaroo courts where

00:43:55.820 the victim's rights advocate will be the investigator on the case and will also be now the cross-examiner

00:44:03.000 if she thinks cross-examination is necessary and will be the finder of fact on whether you did it.

00:44:10.120 Yeah. Well, and the cross-examination, eliminating that is particularly striking because a court,

00:44:15.400 uh, I believe it was six circuit court said that you have to allow for, for cross-examination. If

00:44:19.980 you want to have a program that, that is in the least bit, uh, in the least bit fair. So they're,

00:44:25.760 they're actually knowingly defying existing law. Uh, and also things that just, you know,

00:44:30.180 that anybody who cares about fairness, uh, should, should be, uh, could, should be concerned

00:44:34.320 about. Here's what's great about fire among other things, the law that you helped get passed

00:44:42.460 in Louisiana. And I didn't even know about this. I, I took a look at what you advise them and they

00:44:47.920 did it good for them. Um, and all, and the next thing I did was to Google the best colleges in

00:44:53.660 Louisiana because I want my children to go there. I want, I want them to be Tulane came up first,

00:44:58.120 Louisiana attack, university of Louisiana. I could go down the list. Um, these are the things that

00:45:03.900 they just put into law. They're saying any public college students and student organizations,

00:45:09.000 um, basically have to follow when somebody gets accused, the express presumption of innocence.

00:45:14.980 It's crazy, Greg, but that's, that's not a thing anymore, right? Most college campuses don't,

00:45:19.060 they don't have that. Yeah. The idea that you even have to argue for this stuff is,

00:45:23.280 is kind of mind blowing. And meanwhile, when it comes to like, I, there was a, uh, Dean from a

00:45:30.200 school and I can't actually name the Dean cause he doesn't want me to, but he would say that like

00:45:34.120 that the, these laws create the worst of all possible worlds. And I was wondering what he

00:45:38.520 meant by that. And what he was saying was, listen, if you're guilty of rape, then you're surely not

00:45:44.180 being punished nearly enough by just being kicked out of a college. But if it's just because of

00:45:48.900 something you said, if it's speak at, and if it's a total, you know, um, a kangaroo court situation,

00:45:54.000 and clearly you did nothing wrong, then, uh, then it's truly, uh, it's a miscarriage of justice.

00:45:59.140 So even, you know, people who are guilty, aren't being punished nearly enough. And people who aren't

00:46:03.820 are consistently being kicked out of school. So you've got the presumption of innocence written

00:46:08.120 into this law that would govern the public colleges. Um, you've got the right to the active

00:46:14.300 assistance of attorney during all stages of the disciplinary process, the right to cross

00:46:18.340 examination, advanced notice of the charges, reasonable, continuous access to the administrative

00:46:23.320 file, and all of the evidence in the institution's possession, including evidence that might demonstrate

00:46:28.260 the accused innocence, uh, and impartiality from the hearing panel, including a prohibition

00:46:33.280 against one person filing or filling multiple roles during the adjudication process. This is the

00:46:39.300 way forward. We need more. Is there any other state besides Louisiana who's passed a law like this?

00:46:43.920 We got some good, um, due process protections, I think in, in North Carolina, pretty early on,

00:46:49.400 but we're going to, we're going to keep pushing this. And I, I love the fact that you read those

00:46:53.040 rights because I think every American would assume like, wait, there are situations where I can't know

00:46:57.340 what the evidence against me is or what I'm charged with or the presumption of innocence. And

00:47:01.460 the more people look into this, I think the more horrified they'll be.

00:47:04.340 All right. This is why everybody needs to support fire and Greg's new expanded mission. I know you've

00:47:10.640 gotten some big donations. You need even more. Uh, what's the website before I let you go. So

00:47:15.360 people who want to support this mission can the fire.org and we've raised $30 million for the

00:47:20.260 expansion already, but I'm still trying to raise another, another 50 because what we, what our research

00:47:25.220 tells us is that Americans want freedom of speech and that really the emperor is wearing no clothes and

00:47:30.100 you just have to stand up to the bullies who want to shut you up. Our young lawyer. I would love to

00:47:36.120 work for a group like yours. I would love to spend my life fighting these legal battles. They matter.

00:47:41.280 It really is what the ACLU used to be. And I know, you know, you did a whole documentary on what the

00:47:46.360 ACLU used to be. Um, it's over for them. We've got to move on without them. We need fire, thefire.org.

00:47:53.160 Greg, what a pleasure. Great to see you again. Thank you, Megan.

00:47:55.600 And don't forget folks, you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM triumph channel one

00:48:01.020 11 every weekday at noon East and the full video show and clips. When you subscribe to our YouTube

00:48:06.120 channel, that's a youtube.com slash Megan Kelly posted there. Now it's still our July 4th video

00:48:12.080 of my family dressed up and all of our friends is, um, you know, the folks inhabiting the colonies

00:48:17.320 back in 1776. And you will get a laugh out of my little Ben Franklin. Uh, if you prefer an audio

00:48:22.600 podcast, you can follow and download an Apple, Spotify, Pandora stitcher, or wherever you get

00:48:27.920 your podcasts for free. And there you'll find our full archives with more than 350 shows. Now

00:48:34.280 we're going to close out the week with some fun. Joining me now is one of the most successful

00:48:43.000 standup comedians touring today, Angela Johnson Reyes. Angela recently released a memoir called,

00:48:49.740 who do I think I am? Who do I think I am? Stories of Chola wishes and caviar dreams.

00:48:56.660 And we're so glad to have her with us today. Angela, welcome to the show.

00:49:00.060 Hi, how are you?

00:49:02.300 So good to have you here. I'm great. I'm great. Thank you so much for doing this. So I,

00:49:06.340 where, where does the title come from? Because now having read, uh, large portions of the book,

00:49:10.700 I haven't made the entire way through, but I love what I've read. Um, what, what are you trying

00:49:15.060 to get at when you say, who do I think I am? So who do I think I am is layered. It's who do I think

00:49:20.880 I am? Stories of self-identity growing up Mexican and American, but I didn't speak Spanish. My last

00:49:26.540 name was Johnson. I wanted to be a Chola real bad, but nobody was scared of little Payasa Johnson.

00:49:32.580 Like it just did not work. And it's like, who am I trying to figure that out? Who I am,

00:49:38.420 even in my faith, like growing up, you know, Christian and evolving and, and finding out who

00:49:44.040 am I, who do I think I am? But it's also, who do I think I am to dream such big dreams and go for

00:49:51.420 them? Like, who do I think I am to say something outrageous? Like I want to be an actress. Like,

00:49:55.560 what did I know about being an actress? I knew nothing about being an actress, the audacity I

00:50:00.100 have to say something like that. So it's like, who do I think I am to go for my dreams, to be writing

00:50:06.360 a book, to be living this life. So it's like the audacity to chase your dreams and figuring out who

00:50:11.460 I am. All right. So what's a Chola? Okay. So a Chola is like a tough Latina, like gangbanger

00:50:20.480 chick. Like I wanted to be that girl from the movies that you saw, the Mi Vida Loca from Training

00:50:28.780 Day. Like I wanted to be that tough chick in a low rider. I want, but I wasn't cut out for it. Let me

00:50:35.640 tell you, I want to, I would tell my mom, I'd be like, mom, do we have any family members

00:50:39.420 in prison? Like I wanted some like street credit. You know what I mean? I was like, give me some

00:50:43.180 street credit. Mom, do we have any family members in prison? And she's like, no, we're not that

00:50:46.660 family. Stop. But I wanted it so bad. I wanted my Chola name. I wanted to ride in a low rider

00:50:53.540 with hydraulics. I wanted that life. But there's still part of me that still wants that, that

00:50:57.600 life. Just the look of it. I don't actually want to commit crimes or anything.

00:51:00.980 Right. Good call. And we'll get to that. We're like, there's a character based on that

00:51:04.760 in part. And I think it's also based on your brother, which is amazing and extremely, extremely

00:51:08.920 popular, which we'll talk about in one second. But, um, so is it true that you, when considering

00:51:13.480 what you might be, cause I've talked about this before, I was made to take a little test

00:51:16.320 of what you might be, you know, when you're late, when you're older, what do you want to

00:51:19.360 be when you grow up? And believe it or not, it actually told me that I should be a journalist

00:51:22.640 and I rejected that and went to law school. Yours told you, you should go to law school

00:51:28.520 and you actually considered that and wisely moved on from that as a suggestion, found

00:51:34.220 a much happier way to live your life.

00:51:36.240 Yep. I realized I didn't want to actually be a lawyer. I just wanted to play a lawyer

00:51:40.280 on TV. Like, that's what I want. I wanted to be an actress is what it was. But, um, you

00:51:45.540 had to go to a lot, a lot of school to be a lawyer and I did not love school. So I was

00:51:50.680 like, you know what? Let me just pretend. And you spent like a day, right? You spent

00:51:54.000 a day pretending. Like, what would it, what would it, what would I look like? What would

00:51:57.140 I sound like if I were a lawyer? And I'm curious as somebody who practiced law for 10

00:52:00.180 years, whether you did like run, run me through it.

00:52:03.420 It was just real stressed. All I would do is I would pretend to answer a phone and be

00:52:07.960 like, I'm on it and slam the phone down and I would get a red pen and I would write

00:52:12.900 things in a red pen and it was just stressed out. Like that's, I just knew how to be

00:52:17.340 stressed. That's what it meant to be a lawyer is that's all I know how to do.

00:52:20.680 I love it. Yes. I, uh, I think your books did something like, I just kept yelling out

00:52:25.160 to Cheryl. That's actually exactly how it is. Yeah. I think you nailed it. Yeah. Very

00:52:35.400 stressed and angry and angry. And I know you can relate to that. We'll get to that in a

00:52:39.620 minute. So you decided no to the law career, but you did decide acting would be fun, but

00:52:44.840 it sounds like you felt like that was just too like, Oh, come on. I'm from California.

00:52:48.220 I'm going to be an actress. Okay, sure. Sure. That's going to happen. So you kind of didn't

00:52:52.460 take your own dream seriously for a while. Well, I didn't take it seriously because it

00:52:57.620 felt so far fetched. Like I'm this little Mexican American girl from San Jose, California.

00:53:03.000 Where do you see actors in San Jose? You don't like, I don't, how do you even be in the movie?

00:53:07.780 Like I remember I would go to the movies and I couldn't enjoy it because I was just mad that

00:53:12.260 I wasn't in it and I didn't know how to get in it. I was like, if somebody told me how I could be

00:53:17.940 like, just show me where that car is and I can stand by that car. Like that girl's doing, like

00:53:22.380 I knew I could do, I just didn't know how. And I would never say it out loud because I was embarrassed.

00:53:27.620 It was like, I was ashamed to say that I had such big dreams to be an actress because I might as well

00:53:34.320 say I want to be a princess, you know, like that's how far fetched it was. And so I kind of tucked it

00:53:39.320 away in my heart. And it wasn't until I had a friend who moved from San Jose to Hollywood

00:53:45.540 and she was in a Ross commercial. She was in an NSYNC video. And I was like, Ooh, I know somebody

00:53:51.620 famous. Oh my God. And, um, I remember talking to her one day and I was like, Hey, I want to do

00:53:57.560 what you're doing. And she's like, okay, if you move out here to Hollywood, I will help you get

00:54:03.180 started and I'll help show you the ropes. So now this far fetched fantasy was becoming more of an

00:54:08.740 attainable dream, something I could actually go for. And she was the only person that I had

00:54:13.480 like told my secret to. And right around the same time, I had another friend who was a cheerleader

00:54:18.880 for the Oakland Raiders. And, um, she was like, Hey, I'm a cheerleader for the Raiders. Now you

00:54:24.440 should come try out. And I was like, Oh, that's not really my jam. That's not my thing. Um, and then

00:54:30.900 it was one of those moments where I was like, I was praying about it. And I was like, God, what do I do

00:54:34.900 with my life? Like I want to be an actress. I'm going to go and I'm going to try out for the

00:54:39.640 Oakland Raiders. And if I make the squad, I will do it for one year and then I will move to LA and

00:54:45.540 I will pursue my dreams to be an actress. And if I don't make the squad, then I'm going to take that

00:54:49.820 as my sign from God that the entertainment industry is not for me. And I will go be a dog

00:54:54.720 walker or a massage therapist or something. Cause those are the only other things that I'm good at

00:54:58.640 is giving massages and petting dogs. So I was like, I'll be one of those things. And I tried out

00:55:03.520 for the Raiders. I made the squad and I came home from the Superbowl. We went to the Superbowl

00:55:08.460 that year is like the best year to pick to be a cheerleader for the Oakland Raiders came home from

00:55:12.220 the Superbowl, packed up my stuff. And I moved to Hollywood and started from the ground up as an

00:55:18.180 extra. And that's when I really started to pursue my dreams to be an actress. How did you make it onto

00:55:25.320 the Oakland Raiders cheer squad without, it doesn't sound like you were a hardcore cheerleader or dancer.

00:55:31.520 Like, how did you do that? It must've been very competitive.

00:55:34.260 I was a cheerleader, but a different kind of cheerleader. I grew up doing like pop Warner

00:55:39.240 college all-stars, like that kind of stuff where it's stunts and tumbling. The Raiders was more

00:55:45.840 sexy, beautiful, and like train dancing, like pirouettes and, you know, spot when you turn.

00:55:53.720 I'm like, I don't know how to turn. Like, what do you mean? And, um, so when I went to this

00:55:58.580 audition, um, I drove by myself to Oakland, there was about 700 girls at this audition. It was an

00:56:03.980 open call audition. They had everybody there. They had people wearing like cat costumes and like, it

00:56:09.220 was anybody who was welcome. And, um, so I try out and I make it to the second round. I'm like,

00:56:15.240 oh, okay. I mean, the first round was like, they ask you a few questions and you smile. Um, and then

00:56:19.880 I made it to the second round. We had to learn dance. And so I'm learning the choreography that at

00:56:23.680 this point, there's maybe 300 girls left. And we're in this banquet room at this hotel in Oakland

00:56:29.160 and the choreographer is on stage and she has one of those like Britney Spears microphones on and

00:56:34.700 she's, you know, five, six, seven, eight doing the choreography and whatnot. And then she stops and

00:56:41.200 she jumps off the stage and she kind of weaves her way through the crowd. And she comes up to me and

00:56:45.720 she goes, clearly you have no dance training, but you have something that cannot be taught.

00:56:53.980 And that was the most powerful backhanded compliment I had ever received in my life.

00:56:58.940 And I still hold onto it till this day because I got what she was saying. She was absolutely right.

00:57:03.880 I had no dance training, but I had something within me. I had the it factor. I had something that you

00:57:09.560 can't teach people. You either have it or you don't. What was it? Cause I know you would wind up

00:57:13.780 winning rookie of the year as a cheerleader for the Raiders. And so like you did have,

00:57:19.240 she was right. What was it? I don't know, girl. It's just my it. You know what I mean? It's just,

00:57:24.700 I have what it takes to do what I do. You have what it takes to do what you do. Not everybody can

00:57:29.660 do what you do and you do it so well. And it's just like, you can't teach people how to do you

00:57:34.680 either have it or you don't. It's that it factor. It's, it's what the X factor on the TV show,

00:57:40.000 either have it or you don't, you know? But, um, yeah, I'm, I'm grateful that this is what I get

00:57:45.560 to do. You know, it reminds me of a young aspiring broadcaster at Fox when I was there, um, who used

00:57:52.500 to put on the camera, she would like put on, on the screen, like right beneath the screen that

00:57:57.480 you'd be looking into a sign, a message to herself that read, and I quote, don't forget to sparkle.

00:58:04.120 Oh, bless her. You either sparkle or you don't sparkle, but you can't, you can't remember to

00:58:14.840 sparkle. Turn on my sparkle. Don't forget it. Hey, I'm going to, I may adopt that. Don't forget

00:58:23.900 to sparkle. You guys remind me of that. That is it prep and landing. That's Chris's special

00:58:28.520 where they're like, that's not very tinsel. Oh, you've got to watch it. It's amazing. Okay. So

00:58:35.100 you have a very successful year as a cheerleader and that's your, that's your sign, your sign from

00:58:41.860 God that you're on the right path and you're going to go pursue your, your dream of becoming an

00:58:46.160 actress. You moved to Hollywood, your friend starts helping you and your, your desire to start as like

00:58:51.460 getting parts as an extra made me laugh because my mom, who is hilarious, she, she always feels that,

00:58:58.200 you know, she could have had a career in front of the camera because she's very vivacious. And, uh,

00:59:03.020 for a short stint after law school, I dated a filmmaker. He was an aspiring filmmaker. He'd been,

00:59:08.220 he'd made one independent film and he told her that if she just says the word hello in a movie,

00:59:14.880 they have to pay her $500. So every time she would open the door, when he would come to visit me,

00:59:20.380 she'd be like, hello, hello. Everything was an audition. He never cast her practice or different

00:59:28.540 hellos. But that's how the greats get started by being an extra. And you wound up becoming an extra

00:59:35.080 on literally like one of the most successful shows in television history friends. So how did that

00:59:41.520 happen? Oh my gosh. Great story. I love this story. Um, so my friend kept her word. She said,

00:59:49.120 if you move out here, I will help you get started. I'll help show you the ropes. And she sure did.

00:59:53.100 And she was like, okay, listen, you're going to go sign up to be an extra and you're going to go

00:59:58.320 to central casting. And that's where they cast all the extras for all the TV shows and movies.

01:00:02.280 And she's like, you're going to see a line of people standing outside all the way out the door

01:00:06.980 down the block. And they're all waiting to be an extra. I don't want you to wait in line. Okay.

01:00:10.820 I want you to go to the store, get a tray of cookies, and I want you to bring your Raider at headshot.

01:00:15.300 And I want you to go straight through the doors to the front window. And you tell the lady that

01:00:19.500 you're here to see Sam. And when Sam comes out, I want you to give him the cookies and give him your

01:00:25.320 headshot. And I want you to tell him you're new to town and you want to be an extra. That's it.

01:00:29.900 And I was like, girl, this sounds real sleazy. Like this sounds like all the casting couch stories

01:00:35.640 that I've heard that you don't want to be a part of. Like, what are you doing? And she's like,

01:00:40.040 Sam, take a look at my cookies.

01:00:41.200 No, exactly. Don't get no funfetti cookies. And I'm like, okay, what's funfetti cookies? Is that

01:00:46.160 code word for something like funfetti cookies? And she's like, just get chocolate chip. So I show up

01:00:52.960 at central casting. I have my tray of cookies, my sleazy cookies, my bribe. I'm walking past all

01:00:57.560 these people. It's like that I can tell that they know what I'm doing. I'm like, I'm sorry,

01:01:01.040 you guys, I'm just doing what I have to do. I'm trying to do what you think.

01:01:03.940 So I go through, I go to the front door and I talked to the woman at the window and I'm like,

01:01:09.920 hi, I'm here to see Sam. She's like, okay, he'll be right out. And here through the doors walks this

01:01:15.740 guy, Sam, and he's wearing a Raiders hat. Now keep in mind, he had just come off the Superbowl,

01:01:21.860 maybe like a month ago. And so he's wearing a Raiders hat. And here I am with my tray of cookies

01:01:26.660 and my Raiderette headshot. And he's like, hey, what's up? And I'm like, oh, hi, I'm new to town

01:01:33.960 and I wanted to be an extra. These are for you. And this is for you. And I hand him my Raiderette

01:01:38.500 headshot. And he's like, Raiders, no way. And he's like flipping out. And he's like, yeah, we'll get

01:01:44.200 you signed up. Don't even worry about it. He calls me like three days later. And he's like, hey,

01:01:48.180 do you want to be an extra on Friends? And I was like, my favorite show of all time. Yeah.

01:01:52.400 Wow. And so immediately, that's my first job is I'm an extra on my favorite show of all time. And I

01:02:00.900 remember walking onto the set and seeing the guy's apartment, the girl's apartment, Central Park,

01:02:08.580 the coffee shop. It was so magical. I can still smell the soundstage today. Like it just it feels

01:02:14.900 so magical. Like the dreamer inside of me wakes up, you know, and I think about that time and and just

01:02:20.540 walking on. And I was nobody. I was an extra like extras are not respected. We're like the bottom of

01:02:26.240 the totem pole. But I didn't care. I wasn't there to be respected. I was there to chase my dreams,

01:02:31.660 to watch and learn. And it was basically like I got to take free class from Jennifer Aniston,

01:02:36.640 Lisa Kudrow, Courtney Cox. I'm watching them make their decisions. I'm watching them communicate with

01:02:43.660 the crew, communicate with the director, communicate with the writers. I'm learning all this

01:02:48.620 new language. I'm I'm watching and learning from the best of the best. And I ended up being an extra

01:02:54.600 on friends for seasons nine and 10. And I made friends with the second AD. And he was funny. I

01:03:02.940 was funny. We kept making each other laugh. And he's like, I'm gonna bring you back tomorrow. I'm

01:03:06.480 like, okay. And then I come back tomorrow. And he's like, I'll bring you back next week. I'm like,

01:03:10.100 okay. And next thing you know, I come back for the whole season nine and the whole season 10.

01:03:14.140 And it was probably till this day, still my most favorite job that I have ever had. And I can't

01:03:22.100 believe that I got to be on a part of history to be on that show. And I can still see me in the

01:03:26.760 background sometimes because I still watch. Yeah. Well, like, where were you? If I wanted to find

01:03:30.120 you in the background and friends, where would you be? In the coffee shop. And I was in Central

01:03:34.900 Perk many times. And you know, just walking in the back and they'll be like, okay, when you hear

01:03:39.460 Joey say, how you doing? Then you walk from the bar over here to this seat over here, like that was

01:03:44.420 your cue and stuff. But there's one episode that that people will for sure see me. It's I don't

01:03:50.280 know if they were like trying to keep it real this one episode. But they're like, how is it that this

01:03:54.300 gang really gets to sit on the couch every single time they come there? Right? So there's one episode

01:03:59.560 that they're sitting at the high top table behind the couch, because there's two girls sitting on the

01:04:04.660 couch. And I'm one of the girls. And they had me with like my books out, like I'm a college student

01:04:09.440 studying. It was I was pretending to be a lawyer. Again, I was studying on the couch. And that's me.

01:04:14.400 So you could definitely Cheryl, Cheryl. Yeah. So that's amazing. That's like being able to audit an

01:04:21.580 acting class, right by some of the top most talented actors in the country. So what fun and I love the way

01:04:28.240 you write about in your book about how they were all your friends, or in your mind, at least.

01:04:32.360 Um, but, but I don't like over two years, you must have spent some time with them. And was it a

01:04:38.620 positive experience? Like, you know, the interactions you had with them?

01:04:42.220 Oh, yeah. Incredible. I mean, I got invited to their holiday party, which, you know, being an extra

01:04:50.160 getting invited to a holiday party, that must mean you're one of the favorites, because extras don't

01:04:54.000 get invited to the holiday parties, but I sure did. And I, I remember just, I would have small

01:05:00.440 interactions with them. I wouldn't try to do the most like anytime there was somebody trying to do

01:05:04.100 the most trying to like strike up a strike up a conversation with them. They'd be like, No,

01:05:07.940 move her out of the way. Please stop talking to Jennifer Aniston. I was never seen again.

01:05:12.640 Like I was just quiet, minding my own business. And if they spoke to me, I would speak back,

01:05:18.040 period. And so there would be times like at the craft service table. And I'm just there like

01:05:23.300 getting some snacks. Yeah, I was getting my groceries for the week is what I was doing because I was

01:05:26.600 poor. And I was just making, you know, like 100 bucks being an extra. So I was like, let me get

01:05:30.400 my groceries, put them in my backpack and take them home. That's what I was doing. And then there's

01:05:34.440 one time Lisa Kudrow walks up. And she's standing next to me at the craft service table. And she she

01:05:39.600 gets this little tea cake, she takes by a tea cake. She's like, Oh, these are good, right? And I was

01:05:45.160 like, mm hmm. And that's all she said to me, like 20 years ago, she said, Hmm, these are good,

01:05:51.600 right. And still, I remember the one time Lisa Kudrow talked to me and said, these are good,

01:05:57.600 right? And that's it. And I said, Mm hmm. That's it. And I remember my interaction. All she had to do

01:06:02.640 was pay attention. See me. She saw me. And that's all I needed. Was it one of those things where you're

01:06:06.880 like, where was my natural wit at that moment? Why couldn't I have said something would have been my

01:06:10.360 funny self? Yeah, nothing. I that could have been my audition. She could have been like, Oh, let's put

01:06:14.920 her in a scene. Nope. I just said. Nailed it. Okay, so after friends that it ended after a couple

01:06:22.900 of years. And I recall a passage in the book to the effect of now I'm broke. I'm out of a job. I

01:06:29.160 don't know what to do next. You can't just be an extra forever because it doesn't really pay your

01:06:33.360 bills. And this is when comedy began for you. Like, I mean, you were always funny from the sound

01:06:38.400 of it. But like, the beginnings of it were what an improv class somebody wanted you to take.

01:06:43.780 So I would go to this church back in the day, it was called the Oasis. And every Tuesday night,

01:06:51.180 they would have creative arts night at this church where they would have an acting class,

01:06:55.400 a dancing class, a production class, like, whatever you wanted to get involved in, they were aware that

01:07:00.620 everybody in their congregation was probably in the entertainment industry in some way, shape or form.

01:07:05.380 And so on Tuesday nights, they would have classes for people. So I was in the acting class.

01:07:10.000 And there was a woman there, she saw me, we would play improv games in the acting class. And I was

01:07:14.160 funny in the improv games. And she was like, Hey, do you want to come take my joke writing stand up

01:07:18.840 comedy class? And I was like, I don't know, is it free? And she was like, Yeah, it's free. And I was

01:07:24.280 like, I guess so. I had no desire to be a stand up comedian at all. It was just a free class. So I was

01:07:29.500 like, Sure, get in where you fit in. I might as well. So I take this joke writing class. One of the

01:07:34.620 first jokes that I wrote in this class was this nail salon bit that ended up blowing up my spot

01:07:40.060 years later on YouTube. And I remember at the time I would tell her, I was like, Hey, I have this,

01:07:45.200 this kind of like character that I do. I talked about going to get my nails done. And I remember

01:07:52.680 her saying, Oh, nail salon jokes are so hacky. Everybody has a nail salon joke, just steer clear

01:07:58.160 of nail salon jokes, kind of like steer clear of, you know, flight jokes, like, Oh, you know,

01:08:03.560 in flight food, huh? Like, steer clear of that kind of stuff. And I was like, You know what,

01:08:07.740 I don't know if anybody does it like me. So I'm just gonna do it anyway. And I did that joke. And

01:08:12.800 it ended up blowing up my spot years later on YouTube. But that's how I started doing stand up

01:08:17.240 was in a free class at a church. Wow, you went viral before people were really going viral.

01:08:23.620 And this we have a bit of it, the nail salon clip, one of the reasons that you became a star.

01:08:29.400 Here's here's a little introduction. And enjoy, watch.

01:08:34.280 Me and my sister, we go over, it's a place called Beautiful Nail. I was kind of confused when I first

01:08:39.800 read the sign, though. Beautiful Nail. Just one. Just one nail. Do I get to pick which one? Or?

01:08:55.300 No. Now, with these ladies, they're so nice. You know, they make you feel like it's all about you

01:08:59.260 and customer service. You know, whatever you lie, we do for you.

01:09:02.760 Really nice. Yeah. As soon as I walk in, they greet me right away. Hi, honey, what you need today?

01:09:19.300 Oh, um, can I get my nails done? Okay, honey, do you lie pedicure, too?

01:09:26.220 Uh, no, no, just my nails. Honey, why you don't lie?

01:09:32.760 Pedicure, it made it look nice. It's so sexy.

01:09:39.600 It's better for you.

01:09:42.800 Oh, oh, all right, sure, then. I'll get a pedicure, too. Thanks.

01:09:46.580 Okay, honey, sit down. No. 6. My Ling, she do for you. Good job.

01:09:49.060 Only $20, but that's okay. Sit down.

01:09:52.840 Oh, okay, thanks.

01:09:54.600 So, my Ling starts doing my nails right away.

01:09:57.300 Um, by the way, her American name is Tammy.

01:09:59.460 Tammy.

01:10:02.500 Tammy.

01:10:07.720 You have boyfriend?

01:10:12.620 Um, no, no, I don't have a boyfriend.

01:10:16.560 Honey, why you don't have?

01:10:19.600 You look so pretty, like model.

01:10:23.120 Cheerleader, something pretty.

01:10:24.240 You like long or short nails?

01:10:28.540 Uh, short nails, please. Thanks.

01:10:30.840 Oh, honey, that's why you don't have boyfriend.

01:10:35.100 I do for you. Long better.

01:10:38.240 All right, fine. I'll have long nails. Thanks.

01:10:41.340 It's okay, honey. Only $4 more. That's okay.

01:10:43.280 It's amazing.

01:10:48.080 It's been a while since I've actually watched that video.

01:10:52.980 I have been doing, when that video was taken, I had been doing stand-up for four months.

01:10:57.920 I had just started doing stand-up comedy.

01:11:00.320 Like, you could even see, like, I was too nervous to take the microphone out of the mic stand.

01:11:05.100 I didn't, I didn't have confidence.

01:11:07.920 I was just, I had just started doing stand-up when that video was taken.

01:11:12.000 And then it ended up going viral and blowing up my spot.

01:11:15.040 And then here I am 15 years later.

01:11:16.860 I've been doing stand-up for 15 years.

01:11:18.640 And if I don't do that joke, the crowd will protest.

01:11:22.020 Like, it's unreal how this joke is all over.

01:11:23.920 We just checked.

01:11:25.220 It, it, right now it has 42 million views on YouTube.

01:11:30.340 That's just on one video.

01:11:31.680 It's been uploaded so many times.

01:11:33.740 It's, there, it's, it's unreal, that video, how viral it went.

01:11:38.220 It's crazy.

01:11:38.780 But I, seeing it, like, I, I'm getting the it factor there.

01:11:42.360 You know, like, there, you're very beautiful and you have, there's a natural ease.

01:11:46.120 And my God, your impressions are next level.

01:11:49.320 Because it's not just that one.

01:11:50.640 We can go through and we will a couple more.

01:11:52.680 But like, have you always been good at impressions?

01:11:55.000 When you were growing up, if you wanted to do it, were you one of those people was like,

01:11:58.100 it would just come naturally to you.

01:11:59.600 You'd get the, you'd get the sort of the gate perfectly.

01:12:02.440 And you'll get, you'd get the way they speak perfectly.

01:12:04.600 And that the facial mannerisms.

01:12:07.040 Yeah.

01:12:07.240 I feel like I've always had an ear for accents and I'm very observant.

01:12:13.540 So whether I'm doing an impression of my grandpa or my nail tech or my next door neighbor, I, I watch how their face moves.

01:12:26.920 I watch and I listen to what their voice sounds like.

01:12:30.620 And I don't know exactly how to, like, I couldn't really teach how to do it.

01:12:36.300 But there's something in my ear that I can hear and mimic.

01:12:41.100 And it's why I always say, like, I like to sing, but I can never harmonize.

01:12:45.660 Because in a harmony, you, you do a note and then I do a different note.

01:12:50.820 You play this one and I play this one.

01:12:52.300 And then we do it at the same time.

01:12:53.280 It sounds beautiful.

01:12:53.900 But once I hear you do what you're doing, I'm just going to copy you.

01:12:56.740 Because that's what I do is I copy what I hear.

01:12:59.020 So I can never harmonize.

01:13:01.040 If I'm singing with somebody, I can never harmonize.

01:13:03.060 I'll sing by myself.

01:13:03.900 Give me a microphone, girl.

01:13:04.840 You pause for a second.

01:13:05.740 Because let me not hear what you're doing so I can sing.

01:13:08.940 But the second I hear something, if somebody's talking in an accent to me, I can't help but

01:13:14.760 start talking the way they talk.

01:13:16.400 I did an interview yesterday with a guy from Australia.

01:13:18.960 And I was like, I'm sorry.

01:13:20.920 I keep trying to sound like you sound.

01:13:23.720 And like, sorry.

01:13:25.220 But, yeah.

01:13:28.040 I don't know what it is.

01:13:29.360 I've noticed that whenever I rarely try to do an accent because it's just not right for

01:13:33.340 somebody in my role.

01:13:34.420 It doesn't end well.

01:13:35.200 But even in social conversation, if I try to do anybody's accent, it always comes out.

01:13:38.400 And that's just like that's inappropriate, too.

01:13:41.740 Like, I just stay away.

01:13:43.960 Yeah.

01:13:44.320 Yeah.

01:13:44.580 Same thing.

01:13:45.160 There's some accents that I do that it just it'll always end up British or it'll always

01:13:51.340 end up Indian or something like I can start one way.

01:13:54.460 I was like, OK, this is my Irish accent.

01:13:56.420 And it's like you're Irish or from Dubai.

01:13:58.260 Which one?

01:13:58.900 You know what I mean?

01:13:59.380 And I'm like, I don't know.

01:14:00.720 It just goes whatever direction it wants.

01:14:03.280 Just stay tuned.

01:14:05.360 All right.

01:14:05.540 So after that, it went viral.

01:14:07.440 People, you get you're generating buzz.

01:14:09.420 And as I understand it, you get an agent and the agent helps you get an audition for Mad

01:14:14.480 TV.

01:14:15.740 And help me remember what Mad TV is and its importance at this point in our in our cycle.

01:14:22.200 So Mad TV is some people would say like Saturday Night Live's little sister.

01:14:28.620 Um, and, um, I grew up watching Mad TV and I loved Stuart, Miss Swan.

01:14:36.460 Like there were some really great characters that I just loved watching on Mad TV.

01:14:39.900 The fact that I could get an audition to be on this show was unreal.

01:14:43.580 It was unbelievable.

01:14:44.420 And this all happened because this nail salon video went viral and people started seeing

01:14:49.900 me.

01:14:50.140 I ended up getting an agent, getting a manager.

01:14:52.040 I started getting messages.

01:14:53.340 This is back in MySpace days.

01:14:54.800 So people would come to my MySpace page and be like, hey, I'm the assistant to so and so

01:14:59.440 at Fox, at CBS, at, you know, this production company, that production company.

01:15:03.500 And they want to meet with you.

01:15:04.780 They saw this nail salon video.

01:15:05.820 They want to meet with you.

01:15:06.520 So I started taking all these meetings and, um, getting auditions.

01:15:10.480 And one of the auditions I got was for Mad TV and they said, you need to come with three

01:15:15.660 original characters and three celebrity impressions.

01:15:19.160 And I was like, okay, well, I don't do celebrity impressions.

01:15:22.520 I've never done celebrity impressions in my life.

01:15:24.860 So what I did was I went to this brand new thing called YouTube and I was like, let me just

01:15:29.800 look for any Latina celebrity that I could look like or impersonate.

01:15:35.040 And let me just watch some videos of them and let me just copy them.

01:15:38.820 So first one, Jennifer Lopez, obviously I start watching video after video, after video of

01:15:44.600 Jennifer Lopez.

01:15:45.660 And then I start noticing things about her.

01:15:48.040 I noticed that when she's on the red carpet, she's doing interview and she waves, she waves

01:15:51.960 like this.

01:15:52.520 She does the hand puppet wave.

01:15:53.820 She doesn't do the finger wave.

01:15:55.200 She doesn't wave like this.

01:15:56.240 She does this hand puppet wave.

01:15:57.460 So I'm like, okay, she does this wave.

01:15:59.040 And then I noticed that when she laughed, she would like do this like high pitch kind of like

01:16:03.220 raspy in the back of her throat, like laugh.

01:16:06.520 And I was like, okay, so I'm going to be Jennifer Lopez on the red carpet and I'm just going

01:16:12.540 to wave and I'm going to laugh.

01:16:15.220 And, and the one video that I saw, she was saying hi to Philly.

01:16:19.220 She was going, hi Philly.

01:16:20.660 And that's it.

01:16:21.620 And so when I auditioned for the show, I was like, this is Jennifer Lopez on the red carpet.

01:16:25.900 And every question that they would ask me, her response was hi Philly wave.

01:16:32.280 And she would laugh and she would just laugh to all their questions.

01:16:34.660 So they thought that I was making this creative choice to be like, oh my gosh, this is so funny.

01:16:40.460 Jennifer Lopez.

01:16:41.060 She just laughs and waves to every question.

01:16:42.980 That's hilarious.

01:16:44.180 Now girl, that's all I could do.

01:16:46.040 That's the only part of Jennifer Lopez I could get down was her laugh and her wave.

01:16:49.300 So I was like, well, let me just do this a bunch of times.

01:16:51.200 And then I look up Rosalyn Sanchez from without a trace and I start watching her.

01:16:57.020 And I noticed that the way she, she spoke with her accent, she spoke very fast.

01:17:00.480 She was very quickly with all her words that she was saying.

01:17:02.400 And all of her words came out of the front of her mouth.

01:17:04.480 She'd be like, did you get a good look at the wisdom is in the case.

01:17:06.560 Like it was very in the front of her mouth.

01:17:08.720 So I was like, okay, I'll be Rosalyn Sanchez.

01:17:10.300 And I'm just going to do that.

01:17:11.380 I'm going to talk real fast with the Spanish accent.

01:17:13.540 And then it was at the time when Paula Abdul was a judge on American Idol and where she would

01:17:19.960 be like, was she intoxicated?

01:17:21.500 We're not quite sure, but she's doing her, her laugh and just kind of all over the place.

01:17:25.840 And so I was like, I'm going to be Paula Abdul and I'm just going to do my drunk clap.

01:17:29.640 And, and that was it.

01:17:31.360 And they were like, oh my God, genius.

01:17:34.400 Yes.

01:17:34.940 And I was like, and, um, and then my three original characters were characters that I wrote

01:17:43.080 in this free joke writing class at church and they weren't characters for sketch.

01:17:48.600 They were just jokes in my act for standup.

01:17:51.920 So I did a joke about my grandpa and I was like, well, let me just change it to my grandma.

01:17:56.380 And let me just like mold her a little bit, give her some more act outs.

01:18:00.000 And I'll, I'll say, this is my grandma and this is my sister.

01:18:03.840 She wants to be a rapper.

01:18:05.260 She, her name is Bonquiqui.

01:18:06.540 And I was like, this is my sister.

01:18:07.660 And I just started doing all the characters from this free class that I wrote in church

01:18:13.140 and audition for mad TV.

01:18:15.080 And then I ended up booking it.

01:18:16.160 I was like, you guys be kidding me.

01:18:17.260 Now I got to learn how to do all these celebrity impressions.

01:18:20.840 Cause I don't know what I'm doing.

01:18:22.640 I never took a sketch comedy class.

01:18:25.220 I never went to ground lean second city, any of these schools.

01:18:28.400 So I was kind of like teaching myself on YouTube, how to do it.

01:18:32.140 And I booked it.

01:18:32.800 You didn't need to, you, it, it, forgive me for this analogy, but it reminds me a little

01:18:37.560 bit.

01:18:38.120 We just got back from vacation in Italy and we spent a lot of time looking at the David

01:18:42.740 and Florence, you know, Michelangelo sculpture and his one painting in the Uffizi and so on.

01:18:47.860 But they, they talked a lot about the tour guides, his sculpture and how he, like Leonardo

01:18:52.900 da Vinci used to dissect dead bodies so that they could see the musculature and like the

01:18:59.020 ligature and like actually understand the biology, the anatomy.

01:19:03.160 And that was reflected in their works of art.

01:19:05.540 You could see there's a reason why the David is just so perfect.

01:19:08.140 And he's even got the vein running down his arms, just so lifelike in an extraordinary

01:19:12.480 way.

01:19:12.880 So he saw that in, in the dead bodies and the other, in the live ones that he studied,

01:19:17.420 and he was able to translate it in a way that was just so realistic.

01:19:20.500 And that, that was his gift.

01:19:22.400 I hear the same kind of gift in you.

01:19:24.780 Like I could have looked at those same three actresses, those same clips you looked at,

01:19:29.100 and I would never have noticed the, the puppet wave ever.

01:19:33.820 I would never have noticed that the woman was speaking out of, as you just said, the

01:19:37.020 front of her mouth.

01:19:37.740 I've never even said that phrase.

01:19:39.300 It's not even something that would occur.

01:19:40.580 But when you say it, I'm like, yes, a hundred percent.

01:19:43.280 Like that's a gift you have.

01:19:45.040 So whether you know that you're studying, you know, you're probably your whole life you've

01:19:49.820 been studying and you didn't even realize you were developing this extraordinary gift

01:19:55.420 that was probably inborn, right?

01:19:57.320 You probably had this and now you're finally getting to use it in a way that's paying the

01:20:00.940 bills.

01:20:01.260 It's extraordinary.

01:20:02.920 Yeah.

01:20:03.120 Thank you.

01:20:04.220 But thank you for saying that.

01:20:05.680 It's interesting because my dad is hilarious.

01:20:08.160 I say that my dad is the first comedian that I ever met.

01:20:10.540 He was not a standup comedian.

01:20:12.280 He was just life of the party.

01:20:14.180 Funny guy.

01:20:14.840 He's still with us.

01:20:15.640 I speak in past because I'm talking about when I was younger, watching him growing up

01:20:19.760 life of the party.

01:20:21.980 He taught me how to get the laugh in a conversation, not by teaching me, okay, you say this.

01:20:28.100 And then you say this.

01:20:29.100 He didn't teach me like that.

01:20:30.100 He taught me just by doing, and I would watch him in every conversation.

01:20:34.400 He had a zinger.

01:20:35.460 He had a one liner.

01:20:36.440 He had something going back and forth, back and forth.

01:20:38.900 And he was funny.

01:20:39.860 He was always making everybody laugh.

01:20:41.600 He was very charming.

01:20:42.800 Um, he, he was a flirt.

01:20:45.420 Like he, that was my dad.

01:20:47.340 He's a flirt, charming, funny guy.

01:20:49.080 And so, and he was very athletic and he's very competitive.

01:20:52.460 So I grew up watching that and being like, okay, this is what we do.

01:20:57.900 Somebody says this, then you say this real fast.

01:21:00.080 And then they start laughing.

01:21:01.040 So my whole family is funny.

01:21:03.580 I am not the funniest one in my family.

01:21:06.460 I would say that my brother, Kenny is probably the funniest one in our family.

01:21:11.540 He is so funny, but he's so quick.

01:21:13.940 He's very quick witted.

01:21:15.240 Like before we on a text thread in our sibling text thread is hilarious.

01:21:19.760 But before I could reply, he already sent it.

01:21:22.800 He already is in there.

01:21:23.840 He's so quick witted.

01:21:25.240 But the only thing is I'm the performer of the family.

01:21:28.940 My brother, he won't perform.

01:21:30.380 He shuts down.

01:21:31.020 You put him a microphone in front of him.

01:21:32.520 He'll get quiet.

01:21:33.100 He'll say not one word.

01:21:33.980 He's so embarrassed.

01:21:35.020 He's not a performer.

01:21:36.380 I'm the performer, but he's the one who's so quick.

01:21:39.500 I'm like, oh, I wish I had your quick wit.

01:21:41.280 I wish.

01:21:41.640 Well, he could help.

01:21:42.400 He could help write material, right?

01:21:43.740 I mean, there's a, there's a job for him too.

01:21:45.340 And when you expand, when you get your own Sirius XM radio channel, you can put him on.

01:21:50.240 It doesn't have to be on camera.

01:21:51.220 He can just do his brilliance behind, behind the microphone, but not necessarily on cam.

01:21:55.520 And you'll have the whole family do exposing us to your, your quick wit and your humor.

01:22:00.120 All right.

01:22:00.240 So let's talk about him.

01:22:01.840 He is the one who's my inspiration for my other character.

01:22:05.240 For one of your most famous characters.

01:22:07.080 You met, you mentioned her.

01:22:08.680 And I actually, I don't want to mispronounce.

01:22:11.100 Bon Cui Cui.

01:22:12.240 Can you say it again?

01:22:13.160 Bon Cui Cui.

01:22:14.080 Bon Cui Cui.

01:22:14.740 Okay.

01:22:14.980 Sorry.

01:22:15.260 Forgive me.

01:22:16.220 I was in tears watching this.

01:22:18.100 Um, so explain Bon Cui Cui and how you came up with her for Mad TV.

01:22:22.900 So.

01:22:23.760 And then I'm going to play a clip.

01:22:25.360 Okay.

01:22:25.700 When I auditioned for the show, I said, uh, this is my sister.

01:22:28.500 She wants to be a rapper.

01:22:30.100 And, um, Bon Cui Cui is a mix of a lot of people that I've met throughout my life.

01:22:35.200 Like we were just talking about, I watch and I observe.

01:22:37.320 And, and so Bon Cui Cui is a mix of a lot of different people, but, uh, two specific

01:22:42.380 people, mostly, um, one is a girl from a Burger King drive-thru in Memphis, Tennessee that I

01:22:48.480 met when I was a teenager.

01:22:49.520 I was young.

01:22:50.700 I was still in high school, went to Memphis, met this girl at a Burger King drive-thru

01:22:54.440 and my mind was blown.

01:22:56.160 And then the other part of Bon Cui Cui is my brother.

01:23:01.120 My brother, Kenny, the one who I said is hilarious.

01:23:03.820 Uh, at the time when I created this character, my brother was not sober.

01:23:08.940 So he was just wild.

01:23:11.580 He would say whatever he was thinking.

01:23:14.240 And a lot of times it was what other people were thinking, but they would never say it

01:23:17.600 out loud.

01:23:18.020 That was my brother.

01:23:18.860 He had no filter, but he was, uh, very funny and quick witted and he was a trendsetter.

01:23:24.860 So he would say something and people would start saying it.

01:23:27.760 He had a new way that he would laugh and everyone would laugh the way he laughed.

01:23:32.520 And it would just be a little, and next thing you know, all his coworkers, he does hair.

01:23:36.680 So at the hair salon, all the coworkers, all the other hairstylists, now they all go and

01:23:41.380 they all laugh like that just because it's a thing that he did.

01:23:44.240 And he, he's always been that trendsetter.

01:23:48.000 He's going to, um, start closing his hand when he talks.

01:23:51.400 Now everybody around him, close their hand when he talks, whatever he does, people start

01:23:57.080 doing.

01:23:58.580 And so Bonquiqui, a lot of what she says and does came from me watching my brother and

01:24:06.020 things that he would say and do.

01:24:08.540 And so that's who Bonquiqui is.

01:24:11.240 She's basically this disgruntled fast food employee who wants to be in music.

01:24:16.480 She wants to be a rapper and she gets fired from every job that she has.

01:24:19.720 She, she has issues with authority.

01:24:21.520 Um, she don't like being told what to do.

01:24:23.940 Um, but that is who Bonquiqui is.

01:24:26.760 Oh, we've got this genius.

01:24:29.160 It's so well done.

01:24:30.280 She's amazing.

01:24:31.160 Here's a little bit of Bonquiqui.

01:24:34.260 Welcome to King Burger, where we could do it your way, but don't get crazy.

01:24:38.660 All right.

01:24:39.320 Can I get a number six with a cookies and cream milkshake?

01:24:44.440 You sure you just don't want a Coke?

01:24:46.360 Pardon?

01:24:47.440 I gotta get the ice cream out, put some cookies all up in it.

01:24:50.020 I don't even know how to use that blender, like I'm pressing all these crazy buttons.

01:24:52.600 No, you can have a Coke.

01:24:53.940 Let me get a number six with a large Coke.

01:24:56.200 Next.

01:24:57.640 All right, um, I'll have a number three with no cheese, no tomato, and no lettuce.

01:25:04.300 Dang, anything else?

01:25:06.280 I got a complicated order.

01:25:09.920 Let me get a number three with no cheese, no tomato.

01:25:13.940 Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry.

01:25:14.660 Uh, excuse me, sir.

01:25:16.140 You see me trying to put in my order?

01:25:17.680 Don't interrupt.

01:25:18.800 Rude.

01:25:20.020 And no lettuce, that's it.

01:25:22.040 What?

01:25:22.760 I changed my mind about the cheese.

01:25:24.780 Oh, now you want some cheese?

01:25:26.320 Yes.

01:25:26.780 Now you want some cheese?

01:25:27.920 You see me putting the order?

01:25:28.880 Why you didn't say that in the first place?

01:25:30.300 I tried to.

01:25:31.020 Oh, no, sir.

01:25:31.660 Don't get loud with me, sir.

01:25:32.880 Do not get loud with me.

01:25:34.440 Oh, no.

01:25:35.400 Security.

01:25:36.720 Security.

01:25:37.280 This do needs to go.

01:25:38.360 He needs to go.

01:25:39.260 He needs to go.

01:25:41.760 Security.

01:25:43.020 Rude.

01:25:43.480 I love that.

01:25:44.620 Rude.

01:25:44.940 I love, I love that.

01:25:45.960 She's so rude, but calling everybody else rude.

01:25:48.660 Like she calls you what she is.

01:25:50.660 Like all the things.

01:25:51.360 Don't interrupt, sir.

01:25:54.320 Hugely, hugely successful and famous for a reason.

01:25:57.780 All right.

01:25:58.160 Let me squeeze in one more quick break and then we'll come back much more with Angela and

01:26:02.500 maybe bunk weekly right after this.

01:26:08.440 So, Angela, I have a story to tell you.

01:26:10.060 And when I land it, you're going to know why I'm telling it to you.

01:26:13.080 Okay.

01:26:13.800 I have I have three kids.

01:26:15.460 They're they're 12, 11 and eight.

01:26:17.720 And my middle child was having a tutor help her with some of her homework.

01:26:22.620 And the guy's very nice.

01:26:24.120 And if I if she's just got ants in her pants that day, he'll like play ping pong with her

01:26:30.800 or something like that, just to sort of like help her.

01:26:33.360 Well, one day, my son, my eldest needed help with his math.

01:26:36.220 So I said, hey, could you could you help him?

01:26:37.860 So he did.

01:26:39.020 And they, too, took a break with the ping pong.

01:26:41.580 And so the tutor sends me a very nice note after spending some time with both of my two

01:26:45.740 oldest children and says they're great kids.

01:26:48.880 You know, they did fine.

01:26:50.460 They're really good at hand.

01:26:52.740 They've got crazy good.

01:26:54.280 Do you know that they have crazy good hand-eye coordination?

01:26:56.700 And I did know this about my kids.

01:26:58.320 And I said, oh, thank you so much.

01:26:59.960 I really appreciate that.

01:27:00.800 I said that they get their hand-eye coordination and athletic abilities from their dad.

01:27:06.760 From me, they get their anger.

01:27:10.880 When I read your book, I was like, OK, I need to know this girl because I think she she can

01:27:18.160 relate to that.

01:27:19.160 And it's, of course, me making fun of myself.

01:27:21.080 But there's a strain of truth in it.

01:27:22.940 And I know from your own upbringing, you can relate.

01:27:26.480 Oh, yeah.

01:27:27.600 That's why I got my royal inheritance from my dad.

01:27:30.940 My surprise, it's anger and rage.

01:27:33.820 But the crazy thing is there's the only people that have the the code to unlock the rage monster

01:27:42.640 is really my husband.

01:27:44.980 He's the only person that has the code to unlock the monster.

01:27:48.560 Growing up, it's your siblings.

01:27:50.360 You know, it's always the person close to you.

01:27:51.720 My siblings.

01:27:52.560 They were the only ones that could unlock the rage monster.

01:27:54.920 And then you grow up and now my siblings are my best friends.

01:27:57.440 And now it's my husband.

01:28:00.540 He's I don't know.

01:28:01.500 I don't even know the code to the rage monster.

01:28:03.740 And he knows it.

01:28:04.760 He'll push all the right buttons.

01:28:05.980 He'll get there.

01:28:06.400 Oh, beep, pop, beep.

01:28:07.860 Here she comes.

01:28:09.180 Whoa, here she comes.

01:28:11.000 You ask for it.

01:28:12.540 Yeah.

01:28:13.040 My family is actually the reverse where my husband, he never gets he never gets angry.

01:28:17.800 But I know how to do it.

01:28:19.040 Like, if I really want to do it, I can get him there.

01:28:22.860 I got to be really motivated.

01:28:24.820 Yeah, exactly.

01:28:25.380 I've got the code, too.

01:28:26.080 So now you and your husband, I understand within the past few years, you did something

01:28:30.400 we did as well, which was you moved to the suburbs.

01:28:32.400 And that is one of the many reasons I love this clip, because I did the same thing and

01:28:37.820 because I can 100 percent relate to this comedy bit about city sleep sounds.

01:28:43.180 It's from it's not seven.

01:28:45.400 Now that we live in a house, a lot of things are changing because we used to live in an

01:28:49.880 apartment on a street with all apartment buildings.

01:28:52.760 So it was crowded, noisy.

01:28:54.960 We didn't have a yard.

01:28:56.280 Now we live in a neighborhood with just houses and I have a backyard with nature and weird

01:29:07.860 noises like sounds I've never even heard before.

01:29:15.040 Weird, like...

01:29:17.360 I don't know what that is.

01:29:35.680 And that's scary because I don't know those sounds.

01:29:41.840 Because where I used to live, I'm used to hearing sounds that are more like...

01:29:48.840 Like the sound of somebody getting arrested out front.

01:29:57.420 That make me feel safe.

01:29:59.160 Same, 100 percent, same.

01:30:05.920 Listen, I got to feel comfortable.

01:30:08.360 I got to know my surroundings.

01:30:09.960 You know what I mean?

01:30:10.880 I remember when I first moved, it was we had wild animals.

01:30:14.960 We had all kinds of stuff going on.

01:30:16.680 I didn't know what was happening.

01:30:18.760 But you get used to it.

01:30:20.840 Yeah.

01:30:21.260 I remember literally there was several mornings in a row where I was like, what is that sound?

01:30:25.620 What is that?

01:30:26.820 I'm like, it's coming from my phone, I think.

01:30:30.040 Did Twitter change the alert sound?

01:30:32.480 It's like this tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet,

01:30:35.440 tweet, tweet.

01:30:36.480 Doug's like...

01:30:37.200 Talk to your new neighbor in the backyard.

01:30:38.560 It's a bird.

01:30:39.220 It's a bird, Meg.

01:30:40.980 It's outside the house.

01:30:42.720 It's not from your phone.

01:30:43.700 It's nature.

01:30:45.100 Mm-hmm.

01:30:45.780 And we moved to Nashville now.

01:30:48.240 And I had never seen a cicada in my life.

01:30:52.500 And people will be like, oh, it's cicada season.

01:30:55.960 Not like right now.

01:30:56.800 But when we first moved here, they're like, oh, it's cicada season.

01:30:59.240 This loud noise.

01:31:00.680 I didn't know what was happening.

01:31:02.000 I was like, I think the telephone pole, the wires, I think they're malfunctioning.

01:31:07.120 I think one of them is about to explode right now and fall into the house because it is making

01:31:11.020 the loudest noise of all time.

01:31:12.520 They're like, oh, no, that's cicada.

01:31:13.900 And I was like, okay, well, listen, I don't know how to do this out.

01:31:17.440 It's so true.

01:31:18.240 Now, one of the things I like about your comedy is you stay in your lane.

01:31:23.100 You're a comedian.

01:31:23.820 You try to make people laugh.

01:31:25.380 And I'm fine with people who get political in their comedy as long as they keep it both

01:31:29.680 sides, like a Jay Leno approach or a Johnny Carson approach.

01:31:32.860 But so many of the comedians today have gone like hardcore political.

01:31:35.600 They want applause more than they want laughs.

01:31:38.420 So was that a conscious decision by you to just make people laugh?

01:31:41.800 Like, let's not get into politics.

01:31:42.940 Yeah, I feel like when I'm doing my show, I want everybody to feel welcome.

01:31:50.360 And I am aware that I probably do not agree with a lot of people in the audience on on

01:31:55.340 a lot of different issues in our life.

01:31:57.060 And that's OK, because at that moment, I I always hope and pray that when people come

01:32:04.900 into my show, that they're able to leave behind the thing that was stressing them out

01:32:10.880 before, whether that be their marriage, maybe they're getting a divorce, maybe their mother

01:32:14.700 is sick, maybe their child is just like wilding out at school and maybe it's politics, maybe

01:32:20.920 it's, you know, all the shootings that are happening, maybe everything that you're seeing

01:32:24.900 on social media, you're seeing on the news, like it can really weigh you down.

01:32:29.660 And we're all on social media.

01:32:31.140 We're all scrolling.

01:32:31.840 So we're filling ourselves up with all these things that can feel heavy and enrage us that

01:32:38.180 when you come to my show, I'm like, let's talk about how when I brush my teeth, I do

01:32:42.100 this.

01:32:42.460 And they're like, oh, my God, me, too.

01:32:44.080 And all we're doing is talking about brushing our teeth like it's a very simple thing, but

01:32:48.140 it's relatable.

01:32:49.120 And as a human, we connect on that.

01:32:52.340 So it's like an opportunity for us to connect with each other.

01:32:56.680 And instead of disconnect, which is what we do on social media all day is realize who we

01:33:01.520 are disconnected with, like, oh, they believe that.

01:33:03.360 And I believe this disconnect disconnect.

01:33:05.040 And we're doing that all day long.

01:33:07.840 So in this one setting, I have every color in the audience.

01:33:11.160 I have all the different ages in the audience, different sexualities in the audience.

01:33:15.040 Everybody's different.

01:33:15.780 But we connect on something human.

01:33:19.040 And that's what I love to do.

01:33:20.280 When I write material, I write material to, yes, get a laugh, but more importantly, to connect

01:33:25.040 on a human level so people feel seen and heard.

01:33:28.100 I feel seen and heard.

01:33:29.440 They're like, oh, my God, me, too.

01:33:30.800 My husband does that.

01:33:32.500 Oh, my God, my wife does that.

01:33:34.020 I love to see that in the audience, to see people go, me, too.

01:33:38.880 That's what I love to see.

01:33:40.020 And I'm sure for other comics who do political stuff, they will see people on the audience

01:33:45.720 going, me, too, me, too, because you're in a yes room.

01:33:48.600 You know what I mean?

01:33:49.080 You're filled with people who agree with you on everything that you're talking about.

01:33:53.760 But I'm aware that we don't agree on everything and we don't need to agree on everything.

01:33:57.180 But what we can agree on is that I'm a human, you're a human, and we do weird things.

01:34:01.000 So let's talk about that.

01:34:02.160 It's so great.

01:34:03.360 There's so much fodder outside of politics.

01:34:04.980 And when you come into a stand up club and you deliver a routine, it's such a gift.

01:34:10.520 It's like I am here to give you this special gift to just trying to make you laugh.

01:34:13.940 All I really want to do is make you feel good.

01:34:15.880 I want to get your endorphins flowing.

01:34:17.400 I want to make the serotonin go like that.

01:34:19.780 That's what you're really saying.

01:34:20.500 And so it is filled with it's brought with peril when you go to the political place, because

01:34:25.140 now suddenly it's like, oh, wait, now I feel defensive or wait, now I feel angry or now

01:34:28.720 I don't feel like the fun, good stuff anymore.

01:34:31.500 So I have to say I appreciate your approach.

01:34:34.920 In the minute we have left, what's next for you?

01:34:36.820 So you're on tour.

01:34:37.620 You got your book.

01:34:38.740 What's next?

01:34:39.400 What is success 10 years from now look like for you?

01:34:42.400 You know what?

01:34:42.860 My dream has always been like a multicam sitcom.

01:34:45.700 I would love and I think it's because I started on Friends and that's like so nostalgic for

01:34:50.760 me.

01:34:51.000 I would love to do a multicam sitcom and like just love my life.

01:34:55.720 That's the goal for me.

01:34:56.720 Love my life.

01:34:57.920 Oh, I feel like it's going to happen.

01:34:59.940 You're so good.

01:35:01.560 I mean, you don't even need that, of course, but like it would be great to see you in that

01:35:04.460 setting because you obviously have many, many gifts.

01:35:07.100 And thank you so much for helping expose our audience to them.

01:35:09.520 We're going to buy the book and we're going to come check out your tour dates.

01:35:11.840 I'm sad you're not coming to New Jersey, but it seems like you're going to Washington,

01:35:15.420 D.C.

01:35:15.620 So that's mid-Atlantic.

01:35:16.400 We could make that happen.

01:35:17.700 Angela, thank you.

01:35:18.820 Thank you.

01:35:19.880 And don't forget, you can go to Angela.com.

01:35:21.620 She spells it in a different way.

01:35:22.940 A-N-J-E-L-A-H.

01:35:25.920 And there's also a funny story behind that if you read her book.

01:35:28.640 A-N-J-E-L-A-H.com to grab her book, Who Do I Think I Am?

01:35:33.800 and for her tour dates.

01:35:35.560 Well, she was delightful, wasn't she?

01:35:36.920 Thank you all for joining us all this week.

01:35:38.840 I want to tell you next week, we've got Dr. Drew coming back.

01:35:41.900 And comedian Andrew Schultz, he was a huge favorite.

01:35:45.140 You're going to love that.

01:35:45.920 Have a great weekend.

01:35:49.060 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:35:51.180 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 08, 2022

Threats Aimed at Kavanaugh, and a Free Speech Culture, with Greg Lukianoff and Anjelah Johnson-Reyes ｜ Ep. 353

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