The Megyn Kelly Show - Tiger Woods DUI Crash Video, and Truth About ＂Love Story,＂ with Maureen Callahan, Plus American Jet Shot Down in Iran ｜ Ep. 1288

00:00:00.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.260 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.280 Maureen Callahan will be here in just a bit, but we've got to start with something stunning happening in Iran right now.

00:00:23.560 Multiple news organizations confirming that a U.S. fighter jet has crashed in Iran and that a search and rescue mission is now underway for the two-person crew.

00:00:33.940 To our listening audience, we're showing you video right now from Iran verified by CNN that shows U.S. aircraft that's part of the search for the missing Americans.

00:00:45.080 Both Axios and The New York Times reporting that officials believe Iranian forces shot down the jet.

00:00:51.200 And The Washington Post reports that the aircraft is believed to be an Air Force F-15E.

00:00:56.220 The fate of the crew remains unclear, but Israel's Channel 12 is reporting that one of the crew members has been successfully rescued.

00:01:06.520 Let's pray that report is correct.

00:01:08.800 They are they are citing, quote, Western sources for their information.

00:01:13.620 But as of this hour, 1201 Eastern, that's not been confirmed by the American press.

00:01:19.960 CNN is also airing this image of an ejection seat on the ground in Iran, citing Iranian state media.

00:01:28.180 You can see it looks like a parachute is attached to what appears to be the pilot's chair or the co-pilot's chair.

00:01:37.140 can't tell. This picture from the Iranian state media as well, of a partially destroyed wing of

00:01:44.000 an F-15. It's also been circulating online. According now to multiple reports,

00:01:51.360 you can see it right there, an anchor on Iran's state television read a statement calling on

00:01:58.580 residents to help capture the downed Americans and turn them over to security forces for a reward.

00:02:05.420 In other words, there's now a bounty on the head of the Americans inside of Iran.

00:02:12.320 I thought we were supposed to be helping these people.

00:02:14.960 I thought we were supposed to be greeted as liberators.

00:02:18.300 I thought the vast majority of the Iranians were happy we were there.

00:02:21.900 Why is it now so apparently the hatred widespread that a news anchor there is comfortable saying,

00:02:28.380 yeah, work to find the pilot, there's a bounty on his head, and turn him over to the Iranian guard.

00:02:36.880 Not like, shelter them, hide them, till we can get them back to the Americans. 1.00

00:02:43.480 There are also reports that Iranian state media is encouraging residents to shoot at search and rescue operations personnel.

00:02:52.060 So our guys who are now over there in helicopters trying to perform the rescue may be getting shot at as they encourage residents to take up arms against us.

00:03:04.460 Again, I thought we were going to be treated as liberators.

00:03:09.520 According to the New York Post, the Iranians are claiming that the Revolutionary Guards, quote, their newly developed and advanced air defenses are what downed this jet, which they report is, quote, completely destroyed.

00:03:24.480 Now, assuming all of this is true and we don't have any official confirmation at this time, I mean, trying to piece information together out of Iran right now is like trying to staple jello.

00:03:34.720 It's just very difficult and not trustworthy.

00:03:38.200 But we do trust CNN's reporting on an American military jet going down.

00:03:43.660 But this would be the first time that Iran has downed a U.S. aircraft inside the country since the war began.

00:03:49.320 This morning on Truth Social, President Trump again commenting, not on this yet, but on the Strait of Hormuz, with new messaging.

00:03:58.460 I mean we think it's hard to decipher what he means writing quote with a little more time

00:04:07.560 we can easily open the Hormuz straight who is we we don't know take the oil and make a fortune

00:04:15.040 it would be a gusher for the world three question marks signed President Donald J. Trump I genuinely

00:04:21.560 do not know what he means does he mean we the United States because he just said the other

00:04:26.540 night in his remarks that it will open up as soon as we leave, suggesting it's up to the people who

00:04:33.660 rely on the oil coming out of the strait to get it back open. And the president's suggesting as

00:04:38.460 soon as we, the people who are bombing Iran, leave Iran, that will happen. But now he's saying we

00:04:44.840 will open the strait and create a gusher for the world. Take the oil, take whose oil? What do you

00:04:50.700 mean? Like I, this is just, this is no way to communicate war strategy, war thoughts, war

00:04:56.980 plans, war considerations that he wants our input on, that he wants to test. Obviously he wants a 0.90

00:05:03.220 reaction from the public very clearly. And I'm sure lots of us would like to give one, but how

00:05:09.460 can we, uh, based on that? It's, it's just, I think I, I speak Trump pretty well, uh, been covering

00:05:16.980 the president very, very closely for more than 10 years now, more like 20 when he wasn't president

00:05:23.000 too. And I don't understand what he's saying there. And so I'm sure I'm not alone. Look that

00:05:27.960 the top thing right now is not the Trump tweet. It is our guys, our fighter pilots, um, one,

00:05:34.060 potentially two who are down in Iran and possibly one recovered again, not yet confirmed. One

00:05:40.660 Israeli outlet is reporting that. Joining me now for a reaction is Wiz Buckley. He's a former

00:05:49.620 Top Gun pilot and founder of the No Fallen Heroes and Sacred Warrior Fellowship. He's here along

00:05:54.720 with Jason Redman, a retired Navy SEAL. Let me tell you about Cozy Earth, which makes relaxing

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00:06:55.320 Cozy Earth from this show. Welcome back, Wiz and Jason. Great to have you both.

00:07:00.820 This just in via CBS News.

00:07:03.900 They, too, confirm one rescue.

00:07:06.440 Thank God.

00:07:07.060 Thank God at least one.

00:07:08.340 U.S. forces rescued one crew member from the downed F-15E fighter jet over Iran, two U.S. officials say.

00:07:14.780 So that's the good news, that one's been recovered.

00:07:18.500 Thank God.

00:07:20.060 Wiz, you fly these jets.

00:07:22.300 You know exactly what they're dealing with here.

00:07:24.140 What have you gleaned from the reporting we have so far?

00:07:27.780 Well, Megan, good to see you.

00:07:28.720 Thanks for having me.

00:07:29.280 let's go 100,000 foot first of all. This could have been a mechanical issue. I had a right

00:07:35.420 engine fail in my F-18 in an Operation Southern Watch no-fly zone mission over Iraq. I couldn't

00:07:40.800 limp all the way back to the carrier. I barely made it to Kuwait International. So this could

00:07:46.220 have been a mechanical issue. Of course, Iran's going to claim no matter what that they shot one 0.96

00:07:50.700 of our aircraft down. So it could be mechanical. Something else. You just showed a video of our

00:07:56.740 CSAR, right, Combat Search and Rescue. There was an HC-130, and it looked like two of the

00:08:02.300 Jolly Greens, the HH-60s, refueling from the wings. So the vaunted Iranian air defense, 0.83

00:08:10.720 they would not be flying at that low of an altitude if we did not have air superiority.

00:08:16.140 So again, you know, the first casualty in combat is the truth.

00:08:20.040 Let me just ask you, sorry to interrupt, Wiz, but even if our guys are down, like even if we're

00:08:25.540 looking for downed American pilots? Well, they would be. They would be down at that altitude,

00:08:30.280 but if the Iranian air defenses were so great and their AAA anti-aircraft artillery, those are

00:08:35.320 sitting ducks, right? So I'm leaning towards mechanical, but it doesn't matter at this point

00:08:41.460 if they did get shot down. The instant that that air crew ejected, Megan, a well-oiled machine 1.00

00:08:48.220 kicks into operation. These CSAR, the Combat Search and Rescue Forces of the United States

00:08:53.680 Air Force are some of the most elite on the face of this planet. They train for years for this exact

00:09:00.200 scenario. They've been sitting around for the past month, and when that alarm sounded, a well-oiled

00:09:06.260 machine kicked off. An HH, you know, C-130 got airborne to be able to tank and provide command

00:09:12.580 and control. They also have PJs, pararescue airmen on board, to jump out of the aircraft.

00:09:18.200 then the Jolly Greens launch, and then the A-10s, the Sandys, we call them, to provide

00:09:24.060 air-to-ground surface fire. And then we also have drones. So this is a well-oiled machine,

00:09:31.800 Megan. I guarantee you these folks are in pretty good hands. Let me be clear to the Iranians.

00:09:38.500 If you do capture an air crew, the Geneva Convention applies. If one hair on their head

00:09:46.060 is harmed. If you think President Trump is upset now, just wait until something like that happens.

00:09:51.700 So this is a well-oiled machine, Megan, in process. The fact that they already potentially

00:09:56.380 rescued one of the aircrew is a good sign because when you pull the ejection handle in a two-seat

00:10:01.120 aircraft, in the blink of an eye, it's about a second, both aircrew are out of that aircraft

00:10:06.140 and in parachutes. So depending on the winds, they probably landed in close to the same area.

00:10:12.780 So our our force is nowhere to look. But thoughts and prayers go out to the air crew and obviously the families who who got a phone call or a knock on the door.

00:10:21.880 Let's pray they come home safe. Oh, God. Oh, my God.

00:10:25.480 I mean, I wonder, do they let the families know that quickly that their that their loved one is involved in this particular?

00:10:32.140 There's a whole I'm not going to dig too deep into what happens on the on that side, Megan.

00:10:37.060 But let's just say on the squadron level, we are fully prepared for all of this.

00:10:41.880 As an aviator, I'm fully prepared, as Jason can attest to.

00:10:45.580 When he gives his brief, we go through SEER, survival, evasion, resistance, escape training.

00:10:50.920 We have all sorts of secret squirrel code words and radios and all sorts of stuff.

00:10:55.620 I'm going to leave that aside until these aircrew are brought back safe.

00:10:59.820 But there's a whole system in place.

00:11:01.840 This is not a surprise.

00:11:03.060 It's when this happened, folks who were trained to do this said, let's go.

00:11:07.320 And they're doing it right now.

00:11:09.600 I mean, Jason, for the civilians who just care about the troops, it's scary, right?

00:11:13.700 Because it's like the last thing you want is one of our guys winding up in the hands of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and having to rely on the Geneva Convention.

00:11:22.460 Like, I, you know, I wouldn't put my money on any honor amongst these guys.

00:11:29.680 So it's scary.

00:11:30.600 But yeah, so as a professional soldier, I guess you look at it a little differently.

00:11:36.140 Yeah, Megan, 100 percent. First off, thanks for having me on.

00:11:38.620 My thoughts and prayers to not only the pilots and their families, but to the Seasar crews that are now launching on what they do best.

00:11:46.900 And Wiz is 100 percent right. These guys and gals, they've trained for years.

00:11:51.840 That package, once it launches, if we didn't already have some high level of air superiority,

00:11:57.220 We've even we've we've upped the ante exponentially and the levels of jamming and things we're doing that package that launch wasn't just the CSAR package.

00:12:05.520 It was self. It was layers upon layers of aircraft and electronic warfare that has penetrated into Iran to get our guys, depending on where they landed, is going to depend on the capabilities of the guys to get on the ground and obviously put that security around them and then bring in our aircraft to extract them.

00:12:25.240 We've got to evaluate, are they injured? What is their level of mobility? What they can do? What level of denied area? Are they in an area that's heavily controlled by the RGC or are they in more of a rural area?

00:12:37.180 And then, Megan, it's going to go back to what you stated at the beginning.

00:12:43.500 Nothing, nothing Iran puts out is fact.

00:12:48.880 Everything that they are playing a very high stakes game of information warfare.

00:12:53.220 But the problem is, is the IRGC now controls the country.

00:12:58.620 That is the reality.

00:13:00.140 And I made this statement at CPAC last weekend.

00:13:02.660 And for anyone who has ever questioned our Second Amendment rights and the ability of American citizens to have weapons and what the original intent of our founding fathers was, it was the last check and balance against a tyrannical government.

00:13:14.940 So for citizens in a nation that don't have weapons, there's no way for them to stand up and resist.

00:13:21.540 So what's happening is there's massive amounts of pressure from within Iran and within the IRGC.

00:13:26.940 So I guarantee even if that news anchor was sympathetic to America and she would like to see this diehard regime overthrown, she is or he, I'm not sure which, is receiving so much pressure.

00:13:40.820 I guarantee their families are being threatened.

00:13:43.260 If there is any signs of resistance, they're snuffing them out.

00:13:46.600 So, of course, he or she is going to say, hey, because that is the messaging.

00:13:50.940 I was reading earlier that Iran is prepping for a ground invasion, and they're doing it in a way, they're forcing citizens into positions to fight. 0.59

00:14:04.020 Children as young as 12 years old, I was reading that there's kids that have been killed in IRGC checkpoints because they're being placed in harm's way into the war zone.

00:14:13.440 So make no mistake. I think the majority of Iranian citizens are sympathetic. They want freedom. They want to change. And I think that they would protect our citizens if they're given the opportunity. Of course, the messaging coming from the leadership is going to be turn these people over and you need to step up and support the IRGC. 0.66

00:14:36.080 and make it real real quick just to be clear i'll give it back to you in one second whiz but just

00:14:42.220 fyi uh axios the new york times and cnn are all reporting that the jet was shot down so you know

00:14:49.260 that's those are three relatively solid american sources i mean it's it's a thing the thing about

00:14:54.700 media bias right now is you have to be there are certain things you can and you cannot trust the

00:14:59.900 media for if there's a massive weather story you know you can read the new york times just fine

00:15:04.160 like like hurricane hits Florida. You can trust what they're going to report as soon as it veers

00:15:08.840 into anything political or that might reflect poorly on the Trump administration. You've got

00:15:12.880 to have your hefty dose of skepticism on on basic war reporting about our military fighter pilots.

00:15:18.360 I trust these guys not to misreport the facts as they know them beyond that, like how it reflects

00:15:24.120 on the Trump administration. No, not at all. But in any event, if Axios, New York Times and CNN are

00:15:28.760 reporting shot down, I tend to believe it more. But to your point, Wiz, who knows? I mean, it's

00:15:32.940 no matter what, best case scenario, fog of war. But what do you think about the fact that

00:15:37.720 we got the one guy, Wiz, and not the other? Great question. Before I answer that,

00:15:43.160 just to piggyback on what Jason said, and this is public information so I can talk about it.

00:15:47.880 When I flew combat sorties over Iraq, Megan, we had what's called a bloodshed. It wasn't even a

00:15:55.060 piece of paper. It was like some sort of material that was waterproof, and you couldn't even rip it.

00:15:59.660 So we would, it said on it that you could, and you handed this, it had Farsi, I don't even know how many other languages were on this, Megan, but it had Farsi in all the languages of the region, and it said, and I'm going to paraphrase, I'm an American flyer, I mean you no harm, if you return me to friendly forces, you'll get a thousand gold coins, whatever it said, Megan.

00:16:25.180 But to Jason's point, not everybody in Iran is going to hate a U.S. aviator.

00:16:31.000 If anything, they might be sheltering that person.

00:16:33.580 And knowing the United States and Israel, we're going to hook those people up that helped us air crews.

00:16:38.720 So, you know, obviously, if they parachuted right into an IRGC compound or a police headquarters, it's going to be a different story here.

00:16:47.240 But we do carry things on there that say to talk to locals like, hey, here, if you can help me evade, your reward's going to be huge.

00:16:56.700 And again, Megan, again, with the shoot down at this point, I really don't care, to be honest with you, if it was shot down or if it was a mechanical issue.

00:17:03.920 If it were shot down, let's take this to the next point.

00:17:06.740 Oh, so you're winning?

00:17:08.240 I mean, it's absolutely insane.

00:17:10.580 No, it's just, I mean, to your point, it's a little better for us, is it not, if it were a mechanical failure?

00:17:14.580 just because then it's not necessarily eyes on the jet at the moment it goes down by the bad guys.

00:17:20.780 Even in North Vietnam, there was reports of a lucky farmer with a bolt-action rifle 0.91

00:17:26.840 being able to shoot down a helicopter with a lucky BB.

00:17:31.220 So we own the airspace over Iran.

00:17:34.580 The fact that we watch videos of A-10s doing gun runs over this airspace

00:17:40.040 just means we have air superiority.

00:17:42.080 If there's going to be a lucky shot, there's going to be a lucky shot.

00:17:44.420 This is combat. We you will never have 90. You'll never have 100 percent.

00:17:49.220 But having greater than 90 percent air superiority actually moves you into air dominance.

00:17:53.680 So I get it. It can be a propaganda win. But OK, so now you're winning and we should surrender because you got a lucky shot on a strike eagle.

00:18:02.700 And again, Megan, I don't know if those sources are reporting from, hey, we heard this from the Pentagon or we're still going on Iranian media that we shot this thing down.

00:18:11.060 I'll trust they wouldn't go off of Iranian media without reporting.

00:18:14.020 Well, you know who I'm going to believe, Megan?

00:18:16.540 A man I've known for over 20 years who's a great American is Raisin.

00:18:19.500 I know Dan Cain, and when he comes to a microphone and a podium and tells us what happened, I'm going to believe that.

00:18:26.760 Yeah, they're citing U.S. sources, all of these American publications, but, you know, we'll see.

00:18:32.960 How about the fact that – what do you make of the fact – I'll go with you, Jason, on this – that they found the one, but they didn't find the other?

00:18:43.040 I mean, I guess that's somewhat promising because now Americans like they're back in the in the hands of the good guys, the one pilot, because that guy's going to have a whole host of information, right, that potentially could help them find the other.

00:18:55.820 And I'm sure they've got some sort of mathematicians doing the physical, like the crunching the numbers in terms of the geography and what the radius might be for recovery of the other guy.

00:19:06.360 Yeah, 100 percent, Megan. Although I don't know. Yes. The pilot, they recover. And the question

00:19:13.800 is, is he back in the hands of the Americans or right now? Was it Israeli forces on the ground

00:19:19.720 who actually swooped in? No, it says U.S. forces rescued one crew member.

00:19:23.160 Awesome. They will know. But I will say this. I've never ejected from a jet in flight. I do

00:19:29.700 know it's incredibly violent. I don't know, Wiz, if you have. The question becomes what level

00:19:35.100 I guarantee you, Wiz has done it.

00:19:37.300 No, God, no.

00:19:39.020 I've never had to eject.

00:19:40.840 No, no, no.

00:19:41.620 As Jason alluded to, Megan.

00:19:43.040 They don't make you do that like in training?

00:19:44.420 Oh, you do an ejection trainer, but it's one, like one one hundredth of the force.

00:19:50.640 And it hurt.

00:19:51.840 I mean, when you pull that ejection handle, it's an instantaneous 10 to 20 Gs in the blink of an eye.

00:19:58.820 And depending on the speed and all these things that are happening, there's so many factors that go into that ejection.

00:20:05.100 that impact what's going on with the pilot.

00:20:07.580 So for the pilot, they recovered to provide information,

00:20:10.560 to be able to say that he's going to be able to provide information

00:20:13.060 on what was happening leading up to the moment that if they were shot down.

00:20:17.140 And I'll say this, Megan, I mean, it is war.

00:20:22.780 I've often said this in war. 0.97

00:20:24.800 A 12-year-old with an AK can kill you just as fast as a sniper,

00:20:29.720 a 30-year trained sniper on the battlefield.

00:20:32.280 Sometimes luck plays a major part in combat.

00:20:35.520 The fact that we're able to launch and go after these guys and get them,

00:20:38.820 the fact that we're already porting that American forces have recovered one.

00:20:43.300 Now, here's the deal.

00:20:45.140 Winds play a big part.

00:20:46.760 The angle of the aircraft when they ejected, whether they were in a spin,

00:20:51.040 whether they had been inverted, any of these things play a huge factor

00:20:54.540 in what happened when they ejected.

00:20:56.600 So depending on where they ejected and how they ejected,

00:20:59.820 there could be a great level of separation between these pilots.

00:21:02.600 So where one landed may be in an easier area to get to them, and where another landed, it could be separated by a couple thousand yards or even more.

00:21:13.340 That's the reality, depending on the winds and how they ejected.

00:21:17.040 And here's the thing.

00:21:18.760 When CSAR forces are on standby, they're literally on immediate launch.

00:21:24.280 Those guys are on standby, and when the call comes, they're in the air and they're gone.

00:21:28.180 They're literally in their gear on standby when they're waiting for these calls to go off.

00:21:34.760 And it is a race.

00:21:37.300 That is the reality.

00:21:38.420 They have to launch and get to that area because we're racing against enemy forces who are also trying to get to our pilots.

00:21:45.300 And the reality is who can get to them first?

00:21:49.060 So what do we know about the other pilot?

00:21:51.960 Are they injured?

00:21:52.720 Are they you know, they could be on the ground injured someplace and we're pinging off signaling devices to find them and get to them and lock them down.

00:22:02.220 So all those things are happening right now.

00:22:04.980 Yeah. Hey, Megan, the I just want to say before I go back to ways it just just to remind our audience,

00:22:09.900 Jason knows what he is talking about, that anybody with a machine gun can can take down a jet because he was shot by a machine gun serving in Fallujah seven times,

00:22:18.200 resulting in 37 surgeries, 1,200 stitches.

00:22:22.100 And you are the one who wrote the infamous sign

00:22:25.780 that would be hanging at Walter Reed

00:22:28.200 that we have a copy of right here in our red studio.

00:22:32.040 Do not feel sorry for me.

00:22:35.060 Do not come into this room unless you are positive.

00:22:37.760 I will get back 100%.

00:22:39.520 What is 100%?

00:22:40.580 It's the most I can get out of myself and then 10% more.

00:22:44.680 I mean, that's who we're talking with here,

00:22:46.260 genuine war hero with the best attitude of anybody we've ever met in real life. So just as a reminder

00:22:51.000 for the listening audience, go ahead, Wiz. Megan, what I was going to say is don't forget, we don't

00:22:55.760 send F-15E Strike Eagles into combat by themselves. They were not a raging single flying around Iran.

00:23:03.680 They were either in a section, a division, part of a strike package. And as a fighter pilot,

00:23:09.060 part of the contingency planning part of our brief is search and rescue. That's a big,

00:23:13.540 before we walk out to the airplane we talk about how are we going to get home so when they ejected

00:23:19.180 somebody saw that somebody in their flight their flight lead or if they were the flight lead their

00:23:23.900 wingman they immediately become what we call on scene commander you launch the search and rescue

00:23:29.760 effort and there's also secret squirrel stuff that's happening anyway soon as you pull the

00:23:34.000 ejection handle trust me satellites know they know where you are and they know all sorts of stuff

00:23:38.720 But one of our aircraft was the immediate on-scene commander.

00:23:42.420 If I was flying in a section with this Strike Eagle and they went down, I'm done with my mission.

00:23:46.900 Now all I care about is search and rescue.

00:23:48.940 So they have their exact position.

00:23:50.960 They are relaying communication.

00:23:52.620 And as Jason talked about, they launched that SAR effort.

00:23:55.980 Those folks were sitting there, the Jolly folks and the Sandys, they were playing cards.

00:24:00.500 That alarm went off, and they sprinted out to the aircraft, and they were there as soon as they can.

00:24:05.880 So we should know soon what happened to the second.

00:24:09.720 Remember, Megan, you probably saw the videos when the Kuwaiti accidentally shot down three of our strike eagles.

00:24:16.360 One of the guys was in the back of a Kuwaiti SUV, and he had a busted mitt.

00:24:22.980 So to Jason's point, that air crew might be injured.

00:24:26.100 If both their hands are injured, they might not be able to pull out their radio, right?

00:24:30.240 And we kind of train for all this stuff, but when you're in it, you're in it.

00:24:33.420 And as Jason said, you're going.

00:24:35.400 So, Wiz, this just hitting, this just hitting, CNN reporting on the rescue of the one crew member, two of the sources said the pilot was alive in U.S. custody and receiving medical treatment.

00:24:47.200 Thank God.

00:24:47.800 Perfect.

00:24:48.140 Thank God.

00:24:48.380 Thank God on this Good Friday.

00:24:49.660 Yeah.

00:24:50.240 Amen.

00:24:50.520 So that's good news.

00:24:51.500 So alive and receiving medical treatment.

00:24:53.160 We don't know the exact status, but let's hope that if it were severe injuries, that would have been in the report.

00:24:58.480 So if that is the pilot, so now we're looking for the WISO, the weapons systems operator, the person in the backseat.

00:25:05.940 And as we talked about with ejection, you're going from this.

00:25:09.160 You're going from zero wind and airspeed, and you're going into hundreds of miles of wind blasts.

00:25:15.700 If you're ever zipping down a highway and you decide to stick your hand out the window, just multiply that by a factor of four or five.

00:25:22.240 And as Jason, you know, alluded to, if they did get hit by a surface air missile or AAA and they were in some sort of spin, you know, it was a movie.

00:25:31.720 But, you know, for example, the F-14 Tomcat goose hitting the canopy, you might be out of position in order to eject.

00:25:38.140 We'd love to be in the perfect body position to eject, you know, you know, thighs against the seat, you know, chin 10 degrees up your chin in. 0.67

00:25:46.740 They talk you through the perfect ejection position, but if you're out of control and there's things and there's fire and you're out of position, you're just reaching down to that ejection handle.

00:25:56.800 So it's either death or pull.

00:25:59.420 That's your choice at that point, and clearly they pulled.

00:26:02.620 So it is an absolutely violent experience, and most people I know who have ejected, they're a couple inches shorter, and it takes a little while to get back on the horse and get back in the airplane.

00:26:14.380 That's chilling.

00:26:15.340 Jason, the thought of the IRGC getting its hands on one of our guys is not good. 0.97

00:26:23.500 But they're not dumb.

00:26:26.920 Like, if they get an American co-pilot, they have to know, do they not, that executing him would take this thing to an entirely different level?

00:26:39.620 and you want to get like the support of the American people behind a war that's flagging

00:26:44.520 in its numbers over here, do something like that. Right. I mean, how does that how do you

00:26:49.100 think it plays in the mind of the enemy if they do have our our second guy? First off, Megan,

00:26:54.020 I don't think there's any sort of rational thinking that's going with the Iranian IRGC.

00:26:59.320 I do. I do. I question some of the reasoning that led up to our strikes. And don't get me

00:27:09.040 wrong. Iran has been a thorn in our side for 50 years. I lost guys on my deployment directly 1.00

00:27:15.580 related to Iranian EFPs. July 6, 2007, we had three of our guys killed by this. We knew that

00:27:24.880 there were Quds Force commanders that were operating within Iraq while we were there on

00:27:29.540 the ground. So I am a huge fan of finally getting rid of this tyrannical regime that has killed off

00:27:36.480 thousands and thousands of their citizens. The Geneva Convention and the law of armed conflict

00:27:43.880 mean nothing to them. These are the same people that prior to us going in were killing off their

00:27:48.880 citizens because they were rising up against this regime. So what will the Iranians do?

00:27:55.540 I don't know. Everything they're doing is calculated on they want to get the American

00:28:00.780 people in the world to decide that this war is too costly to continue to fight. They're in pure

00:28:07.720 survival mode is the reality. So are they honestly going to make a logical decision if they get their

00:28:14.020 hands on it? They want this pilot. I'll tell you that right now, because it becomes a massive

00:28:18.900 political play if they can get their hands on them. And if they feel like it serves their

00:28:23.240 interests to execute him, to create more dissent against this war and ending this war,

00:28:30.820 they 100% will do it. I don't trust the Iranians for anything, which further leads me to my 1.00

00:28:37.400 belief that many people disagree with what has been done cannot be undone. President Trump and

00:28:44.740 Secretary Hegseth must finish this. And the American people I know don't want this. I mean,

00:28:49.180 I just built up this morning. It was over $4 a gallon. But I am willing to sacrifice in the

00:28:55.620 short term so that my grandson doesn't have to fight against the Iranians two decades from now. 0.99

00:29:02.620 So many Americans are so quick to sacrifice their future because they're a little uncomfortable

00:29:12.640 right now. And this is where I think Americans need to step up and recognize the threat that

00:29:17.620 Iran has posed against the U.S. for 50 years. And make no mistake, if you think they're chanting 0.98

00:29:24.340 death to America now in the IRGC, they are so committed now to get their hands on nuclear, 0.74

00:29:32.200 biological, chemical, because they recognize the only way they can survive is to have these

00:29:37.180 threats against us for the future. Go ahead, Wiz. Megan, it's interesting because, you know,

00:29:44.600 I'm old enough to remember Desert Storm and, you know, an A-6 guy.

00:29:48.760 He was a bombardier navigator, Jeffrey Zahn, that famous image of his face all black and blue and bloodied.

00:29:55.560 And you could hear the Iranian captors like, hey, what, you know, doing all that stuff.

00:30:00.080 That's why we've kind of moved closer and closer to drone warfare, because it's like, hey, let's send a million dollar drone.

00:30:07.500 It got shot down. That's not too bad.

00:30:09.320 They don't want Wiz on, you know, CNN or Fox or anything like that, all battered and bruised.

00:30:16.660 It's definitely a risk we take when we send manned aircraft over bad guy country.

00:30:23.120 But this is all part of it, you know, until AI and drones become self-aware and ultimately end up killing all of us, in my opinion.

00:30:31.260 We're going to have these type of issues where young men and women out there on the tip of the spear are put in these scenarios.

00:30:38.660 But, again, my hat is off to the combat search and rescue forces of the United States Air Force.

00:30:44.400 This is all they train for, Megan, at, you know, Kirkland Air Force Base and all around the United States.

00:30:51.260 This is not that they want this to happen, but it's like kind of being a firefighter sitting around, you know, all day being bored.

00:30:57.680 You want the alarm to sound, but you actually don't.

00:31:00.480 But the fact that they were playing cards, the alarm went off, this is what they train for.

00:31:05.060 It's a well-oiled machine.

00:31:06.440 I can almost guarantee you, you know, Raisin and the secretary and the president, they just have to sit back at this moment and let the tactical folks out on the tip of the spear get it done.

00:31:16.980 We trust you.

00:31:18.080 And it's really amazing.

00:31:19.780 That's where you put your money.

00:31:21.060 It's like my audience knows I've got real questions about the wisdom of this war.

00:31:25.580 And I completely take everything you said in good faith.

00:31:27.760 Jason, you have more than your right to your opinion.

00:31:31.000 You've actually been fighting, unlike me, in these wars.

00:31:34.480 But no one would ever question the incredible prowess of our troops, the ability, the commitment, the patriotism, the training, all of which is kicking in right now.

00:31:45.960 And we're all in complete agreement that we want our troops saved, rescued, not a hair on their head, harmed.

00:31:53.560 And that if it's a fair fight between that guy who we're still looking for and the Iranians, you take the Americans 10 times out of 10. 0.99

00:32:01.340 We've just got to hope for the best here.

00:32:03.220 And I, I, I take comfort knowing that they've trained for it was everything you just said

00:32:08.100 made me feel better about our chances.

00:32:10.660 Yeah.

00:32:10.880 And Megan, I mean, when we train these guys in SEER, survival evasion, resistance, escape,

00:32:16.840 I was, I was actually talking to Wiz about this.

00:32:19.380 I mean, I ran some of our CSAR training when I was an instructor in the SEAL teams.

00:32:23.560 I worked directly with both Navy and Air Force pilots on evasion exercises, meaning teaching

00:32:29.300 them how we obeyed in what we call denied non-permissive environments, meaning there

00:32:34.200 are enemy forces in the area actively searching for you. And I truly believe that there are a lot

00:32:43.060 more Iranians on the ground who don't agree with the IRGC. And I think that, you know, we can pray 0.93

00:32:49.420 and hope that they are offering support and that they have the ability to hopefully get these

00:32:54.320 individuals out of there. That could be similar to what happened with Marcus Luttrell and Lone

00:32:58.220 survivor. You had friendly Afghans who took him in and protected him. And I will pray because I

00:33:04.760 think there's there are I met so many Iranians recently, dissidents at CPAC and so many of them

00:33:11.460 who who are who believe in the future of Iran. And I think there's more of them just like there's

00:33:17.220 more mainstream Americans than the extremes that we're seeing. I think there's more of them on the

00:33:22.240 ground that would be willing to protect our pilot and get them out. Oh, my God, that pray God,

00:33:28.020 you're right. And what we will see in the coming days, no matter what, no matter what happens here

00:33:32.440 is a battle for the narrative. You know, the Iranians are going to be pushing out whatever 0.98

00:33:37.840 propaganda they can to spin it their way. You know, America's capable of propagandizing too. 0.95

00:33:43.900 We'll see. But we're going to have to be careful about information as it comes in because it gets

00:33:48.440 manipulated. I can see you want to say something, Jason. Yeah, Megan, I was just going to say, I

00:33:51.780 mean, they can propagandize all they want. I mean, whether they get our pilot or not changes

00:33:56.800 the narrative drastically. But if their sole victory is shooting down one aircraft, I think

00:34:02.780 I read this morning, Wiz, what we've flown 11,000, we've hit 11,000 targets, I believe,

00:34:08.340 up to today in four months. That's unprecedented in warfare history to be able to hit that many

00:34:15.220 targets. Four weeks. Exactly. Four weeks. So for them to say we shot down one aircraft,

00:34:21.220 hey, congratulations. Jason, I'll tell you. I mean, the whole thing,

00:34:25.440 it revolves around, Wiz, their understanding of how much we value life, especially the lives of

00:34:32.460 our men and women in uniform. So, yeah, you're right. They know we don't care about the fighter

00:34:38.640 jet a bit, but we care about life way more than the IRGC does. Go ahead, Wiz. I'll give you the

00:34:43.840 last word. I don't want this to come across wrong, but I got to be honest with you. I'm shocked,

00:34:50.120 or I'm not shocked because I have full faith in our air crews and our equipment and everything

00:34:53.380 like that. But I got to be honest with you, based on what Jason just said, 12, 13,000 target sets

00:34:58.720 and missions, I am stunned that we haven't lost more aircraft. And the three other strike eagles

00:35:04.900 that we lost were a Kuwaiti, the ghost of Kuwait type of thing. And that was friendly fire. So I 1.00

00:35:10.320 got to be honest with you, Megan, thank God we haven't lost more air crew. But that is a testament

00:35:15.540 to the young men and women out on the tip of the spear flying this stuff. I got to be honest with

00:35:19.720 Megan, I was a 27-year-old idiot from South Jersey flying a Hornet off the Lincoln over Iraq. 0.99

00:35:25.420 I'm like, there's no way they're letting me do this right now. 0.99

00:35:29.140 These are young, you know, I'm old now, but these are young kids, you know, mid-20s, 30s, flying these aircraft.

00:35:35.100 You know, the colonels and the generals aren't manning up too often for these missions.

00:35:39.000 And the young enlisted folks in the back of those helicopters right now, the PJs, they're kids.

00:35:44.920 This is just, this is American exceptionalism in action right now.

00:35:50.120 And, you know, God bless all of them.

00:35:51.820 May they all come home safe to their families and friends.

00:35:55.080 Right on, right on.

00:35:56.340 We're all in agreement on that.

00:35:57.460 Before you go, I'll just read part of Jason's note.

00:35:59.560 I have it right outside of my office here, my studio.

00:36:02.200 Attention to all who enter here.

00:36:03.720 If you are coming into this room with sorrow to feel sorry for my wounds, go elsewhere.

00:36:08.600 The wounds I received, I got a job I love, doing it for people I love, supporting the

00:36:12.640 freedom of a country I deeply love.

00:36:14.480 I'm incredibly tough and I will make a full recovery and look at you now my friend amen

00:36:19.300 great to see you God bless you guys Megan can I just say thank you thank you for recognizing me

00:36:24.260 and I will just say this that is the I all I did was capture the spirit of the American fighting

00:36:30.340 force that's what that note represents and there is no doubt in my mind I believe in our forces

00:36:36.900 I believe in our leadership I believe in those young Americans like Wiz talked about I was one

00:36:41.980 of them. Wis was one of them. And I know that we can do whatever needs to be done to make sure that 0.98

00:36:48.420 the sovereignty of our American citizens is protected for decades and decades to come.

00:36:53.280 Amen. Amen. Let's say a prayer on this Good Friday, Passover as well, and pray for the best.

00:36:59.620 We've got the best out there working for it. See you guys soon.

00:37:02.800 See you, Megan. Thanks.

00:37:04.840 Wow. What a story. Keep the prayers coming. Our guy could be a gal too, I guess. In today's day

00:37:10.540 and age, I got to get with the times, are going to need our prayers and all our good wishes and

00:37:14.900 vibes being sent over there nonstop until we get them. Okay. Maureen Callahan is here. We're going

00:37:20.960 to have some lighter, you know, when Maureen comes, we do cultural news and it's fun and we need a

00:37:25.380 break from all the heaviness of the news. This was a pretty heavy story to start with, but of course,

00:37:29.240 obviously we had to, but we will turn the page to some cultural fair when Maureen comes on set

00:37:35.760 right after this quick break. You've been hearing me talk a lot about Pure Talk lately. Pure Talk

00:37:41.380 is veteran-led, so helping veterans is their North Star. They have donated over half a million bucks

00:37:46.940 to America's Warrior Partnership, a fantastic organization that's on the front lines of

00:37:51.620 preventing veteran suicide. And Pure Talk's creating American jobs with a U.S.-only workforce.

00:37:57.700 Yes, it'd be a lot cheaper to send jobs overseas like other companies do, but they're committed to

00:38:02.540 delivering the best experience possible for their customers. And Pure Talk's service, I mean,

00:38:07.460 they give you the same towers, the same networks, same 5G coverage as one of the big guys,

00:38:11.360 but for a fraction of the price. Pure Talk supports veterans every single day and creates

00:38:17.360 American jobs. If you want to give it a shot, dial pound 250 and say Megan Kelly to switch to Pure 1.00

00:38:23.800 Talk. That's pound 250, 250, and say Megan Kelly to switch to Pure Talk, America's wireless company, 1.00

00:38:32.120 Pure talk.

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00:39:01.700 body camera footage from tiger woods dui arrest last week has been released and among the bizarre

00:39:13.160 moments he takes a call with president trump i mean i would submit to the jury he phoned

00:39:18.640 president trump to try to get his ass out of trouble that's my own theory plus we'll get to

00:39:23.120 the latest on christy noem's husband brian i've got some exclusive details to report to you and 0.88

00:39:27.780 wow, they're an eye-opener. Plus, Michelle Obama's mad again. Guess what she's complaining about. 1.00

00:39:32.940 I'll give you one guess. Maureen, what do you think it is? It's Barack. It's totally Barack.

00:39:40.740 Yes, it's Barack. Here to discuss it all, our pal Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve. Go to

00:39:48.000 youtube.com and subscribe there and wherever you get your podcasts. Great to see you, my friend.

00:39:53.220 Always lovely to see you, Megan. The Nerve is on fire. Everyone loves it.

00:39:57.320 Well, thanks. You know, the culture has made it very easy for us to prosper.

00:40:01.340 I love it because a friend of mine, a dear friend of mine told me last weekend,

00:40:05.220 and I actually didn't even know she was a fan of The Nerve. We had never discussed it.

00:40:08.560 But she just out of the blue said, you know what makes Maureen so great, among many things?

00:40:13.240 She said she's very sophisticated when it comes to cultural matters. Like it's so clear how well

00:40:19.360 read she is, how much exposure she's had to art, to music, to film, to books, like all of it.

00:40:25.760 and your vocabulary too.

00:40:28.640 It's just like you can go low or high

00:40:31.180 and you can do low

00:40:32.740 through your high vocabulary knowledge

00:40:34.840 or vice versa.

00:40:36.000 It just works, Maureen.

00:40:36.940 That's why you have universal appeal.

00:40:39.040 That is so lovely.

00:40:40.680 That is such a lovely thing to hear.

00:40:42.380 That actually makes me feel really, really great

00:40:44.620 when we talk about things,

00:40:45.840 you know, like the people

00:40:46.560 who are sort of in the muck and the mire,

00:40:48.180 like the lizards of the culture, you know,

00:40:50.480 but there's all,

00:40:51.060 like today we had on Mark Bowden,

00:40:53.320 who's this body language expert.

00:40:55.200 Yes.

00:40:55.480 And he, I was saying to him, like, he just expands all of our minds.

00:41:00.220 He uses phrases that I've never heard, but once he says it, they click.

00:41:04.040 He'll say things like, there's no body narration happening here.

00:41:07.260 Oh, yes.

00:41:07.980 Stuff like that.

00:41:08.640 That's true. 0.90

00:41:09.160 You know, we're like, we're all learning, even with these silly stories.

00:41:13.120 Was he doing Hoda?

00:41:13.880 What was he doing?

00:41:14.660 He did Hoda.

00:41:15.500 He did the lizard.

00:41:16.540 He did the lizard mouth?

00:41:17.500 The lizard mouth.

00:41:18.380 What was up with the Hoda lizard tongue when she interviewed Savannah?

00:41:21.960 So Mark found a couple of really interesting pieces in this.

00:41:26.140 He found evidence of a true smile with, she had lines around her eyes.

00:41:31.120 So it was a true smile that she was trying to suppress.

00:41:34.860 Talking about Savannah's missing, possibly dead mother.

00:41:37.300 To her mother, to Savannah rather, right?

00:41:39.600 To her face.

00:41:40.480 And then the moment where she sort of flutters the eyelids, which I described to him as a professional orgasm in my mind.

00:41:48.480 She was like, the story, I can't believe I got the story.

00:41:50.760 I'm so psyched to be on camera for this.

00:41:52.380 Yeah.

00:41:52.800 And the lip flicking, the lip licking, he thought was sort of an attempt to groom oneself on

00:42:00.760 cam, like that she was very, very cognizant.

00:42:04.620 No, that it was sort of like, am I looking okay?

00:42:06.340 Like she couldn't stop herself from like, he thought that was, this is, this is how

00:42:10.620 deep Mark goes.

00:42:11.380 He says, it's almost an attempt to like, when you, when you actually eat food, you get

00:42:17.080 proteins a little bit in the corners of the mouth.

00:42:19.500 And so the tongue is sort of doing this, it's like a cleaning, grooming, whereas I posited to him that I thought of, I immediately thought of the phrase licking one's chops.

00:42:31.300 Like she was licking her lips over the delicacy that was Savannah's anguish.

00:42:37.420 Yes, because she was thrilled to be on camera.

00:42:39.200 She was thrilled to be at the center of the story.

00:42:41.820 Here, I think it's 14, we have a montage of some weird Hoda moments throughout this interview.

00:42:47.700 Let's watch it.

00:42:48.140 And the ring camera had been yanked off.

00:42:52.280 And so we were saying, this is.

00:42:55.140 Do something.

00:42:56.140 This is not okay.

00:42:57.740 Yeah.

00:42:57.980 Did you guys talk about what possibly could have happened?

00:43:03.180 Like, what could have happened?

00:43:05.220 What went down?

00:43:06.460 And he said, I think she's been kidnapped for ransom.

00:43:11.260 And I said, yeah, I'm sorry, sweetie.

00:43:14.580 But, yeah, maybe.

00:43:17.460 But I knew that.

00:43:19.480 You did?

00:43:20.340 I'm sorry to my sister and my brother and my kids.

00:43:24.700 Were you able to do that in that moment?

00:43:28.620 And I haven't posted one thing or said one thing

00:43:32.960 that the three of us haven't decided together.

00:43:39.420 It is surreal.

00:43:40.340 It's how is it possible that we are having to make a video speaking to a kidnapper who took an 84 year old woman in the dead of night?

00:44:01.120 The ransom note notes or ransom requests came.

00:44:05.700 Did you believe those to be real?

00:44:07.480 there's no tears. And they're like, you use that term sometimes, vocal fry, like the fake,

00:44:13.760 the fake, Maureen, how are you? It's Jenna Bush Hager is also a prime offender. She's been trying 0.79

00:44:20.360 to squeeze out a lot of tears on the ramp up. And they've admitted they haven't even been talking

00:44:26.200 to her. Who are they kidding? If this is a dear friend about whose situation you're genuinely

00:44:31.980 distraught, you probably would have spoken to her in the seven weeks her mom was missing,

00:44:38.080 but they admitted that they haven't. I don't know what to say to it. You know,

00:44:43.500 I was listening to you breaking apart the Hoda one-on-one with Savannah from like a journalistic

00:44:50.300 standpoint, all of the malpractice committed in that interview. Yes. The lack of a follow-up on

00:44:56.480 Why did you believe two of those ransom notes were real, the others not?

00:45:01.060 And because I was really trying to figure out why Savannah would allow Hoda, who was exhibiting nothing but glee at being back in that chair.

00:45:09.680 That was it.

00:45:10.340 She was happy to be back in that chair.

00:45:11.900 If it had to be Savannah's tragedy that put her there, you break a few eggs, you know.

00:45:18.520 But I thought about it, and I think it might be that Savannah knew of the meager talent on that bench, Hoda would be the least likely to either have the capacity or inclination to ask follow-ups.

00:45:31.760 That's very true, because I was told by somebody who was well-known in the producing staff there that all Hoda ever does is ask the questions that are given to her.

00:45:41.760 No follow-ups.

00:45:43.000 She doesn't do the real journalism thing. 0.83

00:45:45.080 That's why they like her over there, the producing staff, because she'll just ask whatever questions are put in front of her. 1.00

00:45:49.580 And I'm sure they all say Savannah is the boss. 0.76

00:45:51.760 And so I'm sure they went over all of this in advance and she accepted, like, these are the questions that I'll be asked.

00:45:56.820 A real journalist wouldn't accept that.

00:45:58.340 A real journalist would say, I'm going to ask my own questions.

00:46:00.660 I've told the story before, but when I was there, I came from Fox and cable news where you don't – producers don't do anything like that for you.

00:46:07.040 You are on your own out there.

00:46:08.280 They'll give you elements.

00:46:09.240 They'll talk about editorial, but they certainly don't give you questions.

00:46:11.680 I didn't know that.

00:46:12.260 Yeah.

00:46:12.540 And, I mean, cable news anchors, I think, are much more facile at real live interviews and discussions because they don't have somebody writing questions for them.

00:46:21.400 And they were shocked at NBC when I went there and I wanted to ask my own questions to the point where one person who had come from Al Jazeera reported me to HR because I wouldn't ask her questions.

00:46:32.920 And, by the way, it was on a Supreme Court story.

00:46:35.620 This woman was – I mean, she didn't work the high court. 1.00

00:46:38.500 She wasn't a lawyer. 0.97

00:46:39.060 I was like, thank you for trying, but I don't need your questions.

00:46:41.460 I know how to ask questions about a legal story, madam, but that's how unused to an anchor with free will they are. 0.99

00:46:48.940 So I think you're probably right.

00:46:50.460 She knew, Savannah knew that, you know, she could make sure that Hoda wouldn't go off the script, wouldn't ask anything follow up in the moment.

00:46:57.020 Like, yeah, why did you believe the ransom notes?

00:46:59.600 And also, if you believe them, why didn't you pay?

00:47:03.800 Yes.

00:47:04.420 Right?

00:47:04.720 Like, that was the biggest one that went unasked.

00:47:08.560 But the biggest thing, and even just watching that montage is, why did you continue to interject yourself into Savannah's moment with the noises, the facial expressions, the tongue, the fake tears?

00:47:25.300 It was a narcissistic episode for Hoda Kotb.

00:47:29.580 I actually, like not much can shock me, but that shocked me.

00:47:32.640 Hoda's demeanor, like this, if there's ever a time when it is not about you, I understand this

00:47:39.100 is difficult for the players on the Today Show, but the guttural noises, and I was even, I was

00:47:45.320 speaking with Mark about the way, even if you look at the framing of that interview, Hoda's like

00:47:50.060 leaning herself into the frame. She just keeps, I'm getting into this story. I will be part of

00:47:55.700 this story. And it's sort of, I think you and I were also talking about this, the way in which Hoda

00:47:59.800 seems really, it really matters to her that the rest of America knows that she and Savannah are

00:48:06.200 friends. We know they're not. They're not. We know Savannah can't stand her. And this is the

00:48:13.360 thing you're not supposed to say. What is Savannah doing? What is she doing with this?

00:48:19.960 It was too soon. Not only was it too soon, but she is playing part of this game, right?

00:48:26.340 oh, it's going to be Hoda.

00:48:27.700 Give me the questions.

00:48:29.020 I know what we're going to say. 0.72

00:48:30.660 I can't stand this woman. 1.00

00:48:32.240 She wants to be friends with me.

00:48:34.200 I'm going to abide this

00:48:35.640 because I need to clear the runway for my return.

00:48:38.500 For my return.

00:48:39.120 She has to participate in the theater.

00:48:40.680 And what was that like end of the interview,

00:48:43.080 that 10 minutes at the end,

00:48:44.800 it was sort of like,

00:48:45.840 it felt like,

00:48:46.980 yeah, now I have to come back.

00:48:48.740 I'm like habituating the rest of us.

00:48:51.300 It shouldn't matter really what we think.

00:48:53.140 It's her decision.

00:48:54.240 Yeah, yeah.

00:48:54.960 Yeah, the Hoda copy weirdness in her physicality 1.00

00:48:59.420 translated into weirdness in her comments and her sounds

00:49:02.640 and even her questions.

00:49:04.100 There was one question, tell us about your mommy. 0.95

00:49:08.360 Oh, I hate that.

00:49:09.100 All right, now to me, it's always a little jarring

00:49:11.480 when an adult person is referring to their parents

00:49:13.400 as mommy and daddy, but I realize people do that.

00:49:15.440 I'm not one of them, but I realize some people do that.

00:49:18.620 But that is just for Savannah to say.

00:49:21.580 Like you don't then as the interviewer

00:49:24.300 adopt that terminology like you are interviewing a three-year-old, right? Like, tell us about your

00:49:31.280 mom. That would be okay. My skin was crawling with the Hoda because it was once again evidence

00:49:37.640 of her over-familiarity, right? For effect. Yes. The over-familiarity, it's Meghan Markle adjacent.

00:49:45.880 You know, we are all highly attuned to this stuff, to artifice, to forced intimacy.

00:49:52.720 Yes.

00:49:53.220 And it just makes us uncomfortable for many, many reasons.

00:49:56.800 I felt watching that interview was really strange.

00:50:01.160 I felt like this is stuff I shouldn't be seeing.

00:50:03.460 Yep.

00:50:03.980 But they're forcing it.

00:50:05.020 They're putting it on camera.

00:50:06.080 So why not?

00:50:07.040 Like, I don't.

00:50:07.820 No, we are totally within our rights to be discussing it.

00:50:10.780 They put it out there.

00:50:11.960 I agree completely.

00:50:12.680 But I'm just saying as a viewer, you know, watching Savannah, rarely do we see emotion that raw in the public domain.

00:50:20.160 Everybody's sort of with the era of social media.

00:50:22.580 Now we're all habituated to being on camera.

00:50:24.820 We all live in a world where we might get caught.

00:50:26.900 And I'm sure we'll talk about someone who was just caught on cam.

00:50:29.680 You know, but, you know, I don't, I thought it was a very interesting decision by NBC and Savannah to come back this soon because you're watching a woman who is a broadcast professional, who is used to speaking to millions of people on a daily basis, and she's having trouble getting a sentence out because she's so emotional.

00:50:51.860 It's like, it depends on the person.

00:50:54.140 Seven weeks might not be too soon for some,

00:50:56.260 but clearly for Savannah, it appears to be.

00:50:58.800 She can't even make it through an interview pre-taped 0.99

00:51:02.320 without crying nonstop.

00:51:05.520 It doesn't seem like it was time yet.

00:51:08.060 Maybe she really wants to get back on the air.

00:51:09.580 I think if I were running NBC,

00:51:10.640 I'd say, take another three months and then we'll do it.

00:51:13.880 You know, when you're back to like yourself,

00:51:16.460 we know you want to,

00:51:18.060 but what's best for us and you, we think,

00:51:21.040 is to wait a little bit. All right. Got to take a quick break. We're back with Maureen. She's here

00:51:24.580 for the rest of the show. We love our days with Maureen in studio. Stand by. Be right back.

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00:52:33.380 connections. Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve, is back with me. Go and subscribe wherever you

00:52:42.700 get your podcasts and go to youtube.com if you want to get all the nerve, including the weekend

00:52:47.460 mini nerve, which I wake up to on Saturday mornings and really enjoy. Yes. I would save

00:52:53.220 most of my nerves for the weekend because during the week I'm all hard news and then I have it all

00:52:57.040 waiting for me. And I love that. Oh my God. Yeah. It's a compliment. No, truly. It's like,

00:53:01.440 it's a getaway and it really is like culturally enriching because I do learn things. You always

00:53:05.420 have like a good book recommendation or film recommendation. Um, but then it also appeals to

00:53:10.520 our natural caddy size side. Like you say at the beginning of some shows, it's not for everyone,

00:53:15.920 but those for whom it is, they get it. It really is. Troublemakers unite. It's cathartic. Okay.

00:53:24.620 Let's talk about Kristi Noem and Brian Noem. Apparently the Washington Post is upset that

00:53:31.340 the Daily Mail ran the story and used what more than one photo of him. Suddenly the Washington

00:53:37.100 Post has a heart. I don't know why. Um, I have, oh my God, I have a lot of, a lot of thoughts on

00:53:46.600 this Maureen. Uh, there are rumors now and some reporting even that the reason this came out,

00:53:53.360 I've heard that it was like bitter women with the, in the big breasted world who were blackmailing 1.00

00:54:02.180 him for money who weren't getting paid so that they came out with it. But I've also read and

00:54:08.060 heard a suspect, a suspected theory that it was Kristi Noem who leaked it to engender sympathy

00:54:16.740 for her because she took such a beating getting fired in part because of the Corey Lewandowski

00:54:21.480 affair, allegedly, reportedly. And she wanted people to know, hello, this is what I'm dealing

00:54:28.000 with. And it did immediately shift the narrative on her. I was like, whoa, I understand everything.

00:54:33.800 So what would you guess? I love that theory. It's my favorite theory. And what makes me think

00:54:40.200 there's some truth to it is that Kristi Noem, who we all know can handle herself. We all know.

00:54:47.260 And was, you know, the head of DHS and being tough women, a tough woman in front of like,

00:54:52.440 you know, gang members and gauges, whatever. With her bulletproof vest on. It's like 80

00:54:57.660 pounds of lashes and hair extensions, don't F with me, is shocked and is devastated and is asking for

00:55:05.120 prayers. That boilerplate political hack statement makes me think she knew all along. She was waiting 0.99

00:55:13.960 for her moment. You can't be smart and stupid at the same time, right? You can't be somebody at 1.00

00:55:19.780 this high, high, high level of government and not realize that your husband's up to this for years

00:55:25.120 Years and years and years and years.

00:55:26.440 Yes.

00:55:26.940 Especially now we hear, okay, so there's a follow-up report in the Daily Mail, but there's

00:55:30.540 been similar reporting in the New York Post and elsewhere, suggesting that it was an open

00:55:35.200 secret within the White House, okay?

00:55:39.780 And I have to say, they don't name Trump as knowing, but there's no way he didn't.

00:55:44.540 If it was in the White House, he knew.

00:55:46.160 Trump loves gossip.

00:55:47.000 Yes, I was going to say that.

00:55:48.000 Don't they say Trump is like the biggest gossip of them all?

00:55:49.880 Totally.

00:55:50.480 He loves gossip.

00:55:51.580 I mean, to his credit, he wouldn't run around like betraying the secret to like the public on

00:55:56.060 Kristi Noem. And it's like, but it is a problem because she was blackmailable. He was blackmailable. 1.00

00:56:01.780 He was living with the DHS chief and had a massive secret. Like what would stop somebody? And there's

00:56:07.280 no, he was so cavalier and reckless with his name and his face. And he didn't hide his identity

00:56:13.240 hardly at all that I'm sure like the Chinese knew. I'm sure they're trying to hack her emails anyway. 1.00

00:56:18.440 like his was a cinch, what's to stop them from going to him saying, you will go copy the latest

00:56:25.500 DHS file on your wife's desk, or this will be on the cover of the New York Times, this picture we

00:56:30.940 just showed. So it is, it does matter. But anyway, the White House allegedly knew about it, that it

00:56:36.020 was an open secret, the mail reporting that, here's one quote, I've heard people say, Brian dresses up

00:56:41.440 in women's clothes, but I didn't imagine something this reckless, another, I've been hearing he was

00:56:46.360 a cross-dresser since last year and that she was telling people about it. We assume to justify her

00:56:52.020 affair, said a senior DHS official. They write, I can, one senior DHS official says, I can vouch for

00:57:01.160 the blackmail claim. This would have been a disqualification for national security eligibility

00:57:05.620 for anyone else whose spouse was hiding this. Then another inside the White House, they said

00:57:11.940 multiple actually, told the outlet that they openly speculated long before this broke that 0.99

00:57:17.620 Brian was either gay or had a cuck. That's C-U-C-K, people. Fetish. Cuck. Fetish. We looked 1.00

00:57:28.600 up cuck fetish. Boy, you got to be really careful on that. On Wikipedia, a cuck fetish is a sexual

00:57:36.280 interest where a person, typically a husband, the cuckold, is aroused by their romantic partner 0.99

00:57:41.720 that my team is laughing at me in my ear often called a hot wife having sex with a third party 0.97

00:57:48.820 often involves elements of humiliation jealousy and power dynamics so he in this scenario they

00:57:54.160 thought wanted to be humiliated wanted to feel jealousy wanted to feel powerless and that would

00:58:00.180 make him the cuckold um i don't think that's what this is it seems like because one of the text

00:58:08.060 messages that came out between Brian and one of the big breasted ladies was something like, 1.00

00:58:12.920 I can't leave or something. And it seemed more to me like it was a marriage of like, okay,

00:58:19.340 she's in politics. She was in the house. She was governor of South Dakota. Now she's DHF as chief. 0.88

00:58:24.440 She needs somebody on her arm. The husband she married when they were just young people.

00:58:28.480 So he had kind of struck the deal and she was going to be able to screw around with Corey or

00:58:33.080 whomever, and he was going to be able to do this. And now she's got to act shocked, shocked, right?

00:58:39.740 I think there are probably multiple layers. I think this is psychologically so dense and

00:58:44.400 interesting because the cuck theory was going around when he sat behind her at the Senate here.

00:58:51.020 Yes, that was bizarre.

00:58:52.240 And everyone was like, everyone knows about the Corey affair. Like this is common knowledge.

00:58:56.380 Open secret.

00:58:56.720 Open secret.

00:58:57.240 They deny it for the record.

00:58:58.080 They deny it for the record. What is he doing there? And there were even reports from

00:59:03.000 his family members saying we hope that maybe now he leaves right maybe now he he leaves

00:59:09.620 see this so those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it and if i may invoke one

00:59:16.320 carlos danger anthony wiener also known as a sex scandal for the ages selfies involved body parts

00:59:24.900 involved a wife who was a power player at a level he was never going to reach he torpedoed his uh

00:59:32.360 chances multiple times. The documentary Wiener is like, have you seen that? Yes. Yes. It was

00:59:38.100 amazing. Yeah. And he's like running for mayor and he's gaining real traction. And then the

00:59:42.760 Sidney Leathers scandal erupts. Wow. Remember Sidney Leathers? That's the one that really

00:59:47.200 brought him down, right? That was the one he texted. She was chasing him through the McDonald's.

00:59:50.620 Okay. That's all coming back to me. But there's, I feel like with a guy like this,

00:59:55.900 see, why can't he leave? Why can't he leave? If his wife is finding her contentment elsewhere

01:00:02.740 and he is finding his, if he is living his best life in the bimbofication scene.

01:00:08.880 In his little leggings. Yeah. Why can't they split? You know, divorce shocks no one these

01:00:13.980 days. I don't know. I don't know. And I have to say like, what's legit question. What's more

01:00:19.480 disturbing to you? The enormous fake balloon breasts that he wears or the teeny tiny hot 0.98

01:00:25.140 pink biker shorts. Well, you know, they always say it's one or the other. So you do, you show 0.62

01:00:31.080 some chest or you show some leg or it's not classy. It's not classy, Brian. All right. Well,

01:00:38.780 I can report that he was, he texted. I've been reliably told by a source and sent the text

01:00:47.160 messages, which my source, who I believe, has provided to me that he attempted a 12-step

01:00:56.100 program for sex rehab, that it was a place called Pure Desire, Pure Desire, and that

01:01:06.400 it incorporates the 12 steps, he wrote.

01:01:09.220 And we looked that up to see if that was a known rehab in South Dakota.

01:01:14.580 and we found that it's a, like a ministry,

01:01:18.300 12-step ministry or pure desire ministry, okay?

01:01:22.100 So we have a call in to see,

01:01:23.680 I mean, they're not gonna confirm

01:01:24.480 if somebody was in their program,

01:01:26.220 but this is what my source who says he reached out to her 0.86

01:01:29.780 because of her big breasts and he wanted in 1.00

01:01:32.320 and she wasn't, she didn't let it happen,

01:01:35.220 but she and he struck up a text relationship

01:01:38.100 and he confessed to her that,

01:01:40.740 this is in January of 2026,

01:01:43.240 He wrote, I just need to know, blah, blah, blah.

01:01:47.760 He says it's a men's group that he's in.

01:01:50.480 Then he asks her, did you try anything on?

01:01:52.260 He's back to wanting to see her.

01:01:53.980 She says, no.

01:01:55.320 And then she says, what type of men's group?

01:01:56.900 He says, recovery group.

01:01:58.000 She says, recovery for what?

01:01:59.260 He says, addiction, five of us.

01:02:01.920 What type of 12-step program, she asks?

01:02:03.880 It's not really 12 steps, he says.

01:02:07.140 She says, so what time just to recover everyone?

01:02:12.780 Oh, they're still talking about her outfit.

01:02:14.940 Okay, then he says, I'm a work in progress.

01:02:17.020 She says, what is your recovery group for?

01:02:19.820 She says, all of us are a work in progress.

01:02:21.980 And then he says, I'm entering a therapy program,

01:02:25.120 much needed and much overdue, 40 days.

01:02:28.020 This is January 12th of 2026, 40 days.

01:02:30.840 I appreciate the conversations we had

01:02:32.320 in getting to know you better.

01:02:33.200 You seem like a great person.

01:02:34.280 And I hope you get what you want out of it.

01:02:37.540 And then he writes, you're pretty great.

01:02:38.880 I really enjoyed talking to you.

01:02:40.800 Enjoy talking to you too.

01:02:42.520 So which treatment plan are you going to go with?

01:02:44.180 And he says, it's called Pure Desire.

01:02:46.140 It incorporates the 12 steps.

01:02:47.740 And then this person believes he left the program early, Maureen,

01:02:52.740 and did not complete the 40 days nor the 12 steps.

01:02:56.040 Maybe he got through the first three.

01:02:57.240 I don't know.

01:02:58.760 But to me, I have to say he went through something and he didn't do it after being caught.

01:03:08.100 So it seems like he was genuinely wrestling with his addiction, fetish, or whatever.

01:03:15.140 I don't know.

01:03:15.980 Like if you do that behind the scenes before you're caught, clearly the guy does have a problem.

01:03:20.500 Very clearly.

01:03:22.240 Okay.

01:03:22.840 I'm going to, I mean this sincerely.

01:03:25.060 Does he?

01:03:25.960 I was listening to you the other day.

01:03:27.900 You were talking about an interview

01:03:29.120 you had done very early on in this podcast.

01:03:31.420 Debra So. 0.83

01:03:32.460 Which was fascinating.

01:03:34.420 Where you said, she said,

01:03:36.080 these fetishes are almost ingrained.

01:03:38.900 Like they come out of the womb almost. 0.99

01:03:41.280 Well, I think something happens to you

01:03:42.680 when you're very, very young that creates it.

01:03:45.240 Okay.

01:03:46.360 So, but something is happening to many people.

01:03:49.780 This is a fetish I'd never heard of before. 0.95

01:03:51.960 The enormous breasts. 0.83

01:03:53.240 But like men wanting the enormous breasts and like, I'm not quite sure where the sexual kink is, but like, it's clear that my supposition, just mine, that's the only way he's finding sexual gratification. 0.64

01:04:09.000 It's not what we would consider conventional sex, right?

01:04:14.580 Is it an addiction?

01:04:16.300 is if it's harmless, if it's, if he's not hurting anybody else, if this is like through screens,

01:04:21.540 if it's not manifesting in other ways. It hurt me. I did not want to see those pictures.

01:04:27.380 When I saw those pictures, I was like, this cannot be real.

01:04:30.240 My eyes. Like I can't. To me, it was like, I was kind of okay with it when like, if like,

01:04:38.240 he's just looking at a large breasted woman, but that stuff of him, there's something very

01:04:43.560 deviant. I don't know. Maybe all fetishes are deviant, but I don't think so. Like some people

01:04:48.140 like Dom Sub, that doesn't seem totally deviant to me. But like the man putting enormous fake

01:04:56.300 breasts and the teeny tiny biker shorts, Maureen, look at him with his fake kissy face. That does 1.00

01:05:02.580 seem very, very freaking weird. It's weird to be sure. It's weird, but hey, he has a community

01:05:09.580 of like-minded souls.

01:05:11.280 He's getting it out, you know.

01:05:13.760 Oh, he's getting it out, all right.

01:05:14.900 He's getting it out.

01:05:16.460 Is it weird?

01:05:17.060 Like, so when I go to see a Quentin Tarantino movie,

01:05:20.120 I, as a woman, am always made very uncomfortable

01:05:23.160 because he forces his foot fetish on all of us.

01:05:25.740 Oh.

01:05:26.180 He has a major foot fetish.

01:05:27.740 He does.

01:05:28.360 Yes.

01:05:28.800 And one of the things he makes his actresses do, 1.00

01:05:31.720 so the last big film he did, I think,

01:05:33.920 was Once Upon a Time in America with Brad Pitt

01:05:36.020 and Leonardo DiCaprio.

01:05:37.940 Margaret Robbie, sorry, Margot Robbie, the lead,

01:05:41.920 playing Sharon Tate.

01:05:43.200 He has a scene in the film,

01:05:44.580 it doesn't need to exist at all,

01:05:46.240 where she's going to the movies to see herself.

01:05:48.660 And she's sitting in the seat in the theater 0.80

01:05:51.480 and she props up her dirty, bare feet. 0.80

01:05:55.760 We see the soles of her feet, they're dirty.

01:05:58.700 And I look at that scene,

01:06:00.180 which goes on for quite some time.

01:06:01.560 And I think this is for Quentin Tarantino's

01:06:03.400 personal gratification.

01:06:04.620 But he's also getting a gratification

01:06:06.660 out of making the rest of us paying moviegoers watch this,

01:06:10.540 those of us who know what he's up to.

01:06:12.220 You know what I mean?

01:06:12.680 Yeah.

01:06:12.900 This guy, I just feel like I don't think addiction treatment would work with him

01:06:18.520 because I don't know that it would classify, per se, as an addiction.

01:06:23.000 It's a deviance, perhaps.

01:06:25.220 It's a predilection.

01:06:27.040 It's a compulsion, even.

01:06:29.200 But he's not breaking any laws.

01:06:30.820 Do you think, how do you think, like, I have to tell you,

01:06:33.480 I can think of at least three couples that we've known over the years, you know, I'm talking two

01:06:40.380 plus decades where we have found out that, and it's always the husband, had some very strange

01:06:47.200 sexual fetish. We didn't know about it. We hung out with friends and then whatever, they got a

01:06:52.500 divorce or he was caught doing something, you know, like it comes out. And I have been shocked

01:06:56.640 because in each of the cases, kind of like the Brian Noem case, they've seemingly been normal

01:07:01.780 guys. Like you wouldn't have known that they're into something very weird, very weird in my humble

01:07:09.200 opinion. And so I do wonder like, how many are there? And like, how many people that you know

01:07:15.440 right now have like very abnormal, that's my word, fetishes or kinks that like are right behind the 1.00

01:07:24.320 closed door, right? Like they're at the church meeting all day. And then in the night they look

01:07:30.040 like Brian Gnome. And also at some point, I bet he broke that to Christy. I bet he was like,

01:07:37.600 what would you think about putting the big balloons down? Oh, 100%. Yes. Like soften you

01:07:44.480 up. You know, like we've all sort of, I don't know about you. I won't speak for you. I've

01:07:48.420 certainly been in situations where I thought they're, they're kind of testing the waters,

01:07:52.500 right? Like, are you, you know, like, and, and you, you, you recognize it sometimes in the,

01:07:57.700 in the immediate or you don't, you know, but I don't believe for a second that this came as a

01:08:05.260 complete and utter shock. Look, where's the guy hiding all of this gear? Yeah. It's a lot. His

01:08:11.060 little outfits. Like the hot pink Lycra. And the money. Where's the money going? Like you're

01:08:18.000 telling me they don't sit down with their accountant every year at tax time? It was

01:08:22.340 thousands of dollars. And I'm working to confirm this piece of it, but there's an allegation that's

01:08:28.100 been made that he was paying for even surgeries. Again, I'm working to track that down,

01:08:32.760 take it with a grain of salt, but I've definitely been told that he was paying for certain surgeries

01:08:36.900 for some of these folks. And so like, there would be a record that they were not rich.

01:08:41.740 You know, she did inherit her dad's ranch. I don't know how much money that entailed for her. 1.00

01:08:47.320 And but I think she's got siblings, too. But she was a congressman and then she was governor and then she was a senator.

01:08:54.760 So like you're making an OK living, but you're not it's not so much you wouldn't notice somebody like big surgery payments going out the door.

01:09:01.900 And he was an insurance is in insurance. So I don't like I just wonder because the first there had to be a first time where he was like, you know, no, it'd be great is if you had like triple J's. 1.00

01:09:14.220 Like, wouldn't that be hot?

01:09:16.820 You think that would help you win your congressional seat next time around?

01:09:21.000 It's a no.

01:09:22.680 And then he looked elsewhere.

01:09:24.760 I think we're going to be hearing a lot from Brian Noem.

01:09:28.700 You do?

01:09:29.300 I do.

01:09:30.100 I think we're going to, I think he's open to a one-on-one.

01:09:33.080 With Hoda?

01:09:34.140 Perhaps with you.

01:09:35.280 He could totally come on here.

01:09:36.680 I would be open-minded to talking to him.

01:09:38.500 Listen, you know, Oprah's going to go for this, like a heat-seeking missile. 1.00

01:09:42.980 But she's so irrelevant now.

01:09:44.420 Who would sit with Oprah? 0.79

01:09:45.660 You know, a lot of people still do, weirdly.

01:09:47.860 But who would be good for this?

01:09:49.940 Because when the New York Times approached him, did you see this?

01:09:53.520 What?

01:09:54.260 A reporter for the New York Times approached him outside of his house, and he said, I'm

01:09:58.380 not ready to speak yet.

01:09:59.660 But prayers?

01:10:00.420 He said something?

01:10:01.060 He said something like, but I appreciate your heart.

01:10:03.780 Yes.

01:10:04.180 Okay.

01:10:04.560 Now, a reporter who's going to door knock you at this moment, it's pretty calloused,

01:10:09.580 their heart, I'm just going to say.

01:10:10.840 But so like, he's like, he's, he seems to have this, I think like, I think like Anthony

01:10:15.900 Wiener, part of the fetish is like humiliation.

01:10:19.540 I like it.

01:10:21.440 This, this is like, oh, we're going to luxuriate.

01:10:24.800 So he's going to be on Nancy Grace soon is what you're telling me.

01:10:27.620 I think so.

01:10:28.320 I think so.

01:10:29.680 She's better than anyone at that.

01:10:31.040 I think he might get a book deal.

01:10:32.540 You know, I don't know.

01:10:33.520 I think, I think a documentary.

01:10:35.860 I'm not going to lie.

01:10:36.420 If he gets a book deal and writes a book, we'll cover it.

01:10:38.540 Of course.

01:10:39.340 Yeah, we will.

01:10:39.680 I mean, and I would happily speak with Brian Noem and I would be respectful of him unless he didn't want that, in which case I'd shame and embarrass him.

01:10:46.600 No, I don't know.

01:10:51.960 And I already know far too much about them.

01:10:53.940 I think it's a good thing that she's stepped down from her role.

01:10:57.820 All right, let's talk about Tiger.

01:10:59.960 Because I kind of I love it when we have different takes on it.

01:11:05.520 But I agreed with your take, too.

01:11:07.040 But I looked at it.

01:11:07.760 I was like, this is so sad.

01:11:08.760 I was like, this is somebody who was kind of abused in a way by his dad who like didn't let him be a little boy, just was building a future golf star.

01:11:18.240 And I'm sure the dad thought he was doing the right thing.

01:11:20.280 And of course, Tiger's a billionaire.

01:11:22.020 He's a world famous.

01:11:23.560 Okay, great.

01:11:24.220 You won.

01:11:25.000 You did it.

01:11:25.900 But he's unhappy. 0.95

01:11:27.500 He's so miserable. 1.00

01:11:28.520 He's so fucking miserable and fucked up and could have killed how many Americans at this point? 1.00

01:11:33.400 And it's because I think he didn't have real love. 1.00

01:11:37.380 That's not real love.

01:11:38.760 That's like, run, pony, run.

01:11:41.540 And he didn't have a childhood.

01:11:43.860 You know, he didn't goof around at the mall or the movies.

01:11:46.800 Like, he's 50, so I know when he grew up.

01:11:50.160 That's what you did.

01:11:51.080 You goofed around at the mall and the movies,

01:11:52.740 and you built forts and rode your bike

01:11:55.140 and sat by the stream by yourself, right?

01:11:57.960 Like, you had downtime is what I'm saying.

01:12:01.820 None of that happened.

01:12:02.940 So he wasn't equipped.

01:12:03.880 He didn't build any of the life skills.

01:12:05.200 And now he's had all these accidents,

01:12:07.060 not to mention sports, you know, challenges that have caused him to be in physical pain.

01:12:11.980 And even when he had that catastrophic crash in 2021, almost had his leg amputated.

01:12:17.620 How many surgeries did he have?

01:12:19.240 Like a dozen.

01:12:20.800 And then right back out there, he went on to win.

01:12:24.420 Well, no, he won the Masters in 2019, but he still got back out there in the tournaments.

01:12:27.720 And it's like, go racehorse, go.

01:12:30.700 So it's like, of course, he's in pain.

01:12:32.380 It's just like, this is a shattered human being.

01:12:34.680 I don't care what the bank book says. 1.00

01:12:37.060 But I understand the other point, which is stop fucking endangering the children of America, you selfish, spoiled gazillionaire. 0.99

01:12:47.520 Or any one of us. 1.00

01:12:48.840 I mean, he could smash into parents of young children and kill them and leave them orphaned. 0.89

01:12:54.720 You know, listening to you talk about this, and I was listening to you the other day, and I understand where you're coming from 100%. 0.95

01:13:01.320 But as you're talking, I'm thinking, you know, there's a corollary that we've got.

01:13:06.240 people not that much younger than Tiger,

01:13:08.340 and that's the Williams sisters. 0.78

01:13:10.040 Their father did the same exact thing.

01:13:11.840 It's true.

01:13:12.540 Richard Williams put those girls on the tennis court 0.99

01:13:15.280 when they were very young

01:13:16.380 and made it his mission to make them tennis pros and stars.

01:13:21.560 And just like-

01:13:21.960 They say he married their mother for that same reason.

01:13:24.480 She's very tall and she's strong.

01:13:26.160 Are you serious?

01:13:26.620 That's what they say.

01:13:27.560 I didn't know that.

01:13:29.000 Unconfirmed.

01:13:30.000 Whoa.

01:13:30.600 Yeah.

01:13:30.920 But the other corollary with the two

01:13:32.920 is that they both were,

01:13:35.300 and I think this is part of the reason they feel a little bit untouchable and reasons to make

01:13:40.680 excuses for. They both broke barriers, race barriers in sports that were traditionally

01:13:46.340 exclusively white. Tiger and the Williams. Yep. That's true. They both joined sports that were

01:13:50.740 dominated by whites. But the Williams sisters don't deal with whatever issues they may have 0.98

01:13:56.840 over a lost childhood by repeatedly getting behind the wheel off of their faces. They just

01:14:02.480 yell at the little umpire which is that's fine much much healthier keep it on the court keep it

01:14:08.260 on the court keep it on the golf course i just like and by the way that's just serena venus was 1.00

01:14:13.040 never yeah venus is venus is a much cooler cat than that also i will say the girls had each other 1.00

01:14:18.140 which is good that's true although you could look at it this way as well how difficult it must be to

01:14:23.600 be siblings grow growing up in this unique ecosystem and one of them is clearly just going

01:14:29.260 to be. Like she's going to be in the stratosphere. You're great. You're great. But in the history

01:14:36.100 books, it's her name first. We will find out later she was doping. I'm convinced, Serena.

01:14:41.560 Oh, I think they all are. Doug wrote a book. Before he turned to nonfiction, he wrote a couple

01:14:46.380 of novels. And one of them is called Trophy Son. And it's about this, like how basically that father

01:14:52.060 that you just described. And he did a lot of research in the tennis world, which we love

01:14:56.440 because we're a tennis family.

01:14:57.700 He plays, I don't play anybody,

01:14:58.760 but he plays, my kids play.

01:15:00.280 And he spoke to a very well-known tennis player

01:15:03.580 who said like, everybody's doping.

01:15:05.120 And if you don't dope, you can't make it.

01:15:06.880 You're kind of like, you have to choose to leave.

01:15:09.240 It makes sense because you see these players

01:15:11.400 come back out on the court after sustained.

01:15:13.860 Like Roger Federer, three knee surgeries,

01:15:17.600 aging, aging champion.

01:15:20.360 But you know, one knee surgery is enough

01:15:22.180 if you're not doping, it's taking you out.

01:15:24.020 I'm sorry, it is.

01:15:25.060 Um, but I think what just drove me nuts about Serena is everybody was pretending that the kind

01:15:31.580 of musculature she had on the court, which was a man's musculature. I'm sorry. Women, you can 1.00

01:15:38.360 work out all day long. You're not developing muscles like that, you know? So, okay. But that's-

01:15:45.360 She denies it. Of course she denies it. She's happy to be a spokesperson for her GLP-1.

01:15:51.360 Yes.

01:15:51.820 But we're not doping.

01:15:52.740 We never doped.

01:15:54.340 But anyway, yeah, the tiger thing, you know, so I was listening to Dave Portnoy, who has 0.55

01:16:00.220 been catching some crap in the culture, but I liked what he had to say.

01:16:03.780 What did he say? 0.96

01:16:04.440 He said, I don't know anybody who's ever rolled a car.

01:16:07.480 No, me neither.

01:16:08.800 Let alone twice.

01:16:10.120 Like, this guy's just rolling cars all, like, he's a menace to, if this had been you, me.

01:16:15.800 We'd be getting killed.

01:16:17.700 Our licenses would be permanently revoked.

01:16:19.720 And there'd be no sympathy. Like our core fans would, would have our backs, but God bless you all. Thank you. But the society, the way it's written up would have been completely excoriating.

01:16:30.040 The idea that, and I don't like what he's, he's doing what he did 16 years ago, except that we haven't seen the presser yet. But remember 16 years ago, it was like the mistresses, the drugs, the, you know, and he had a whole presser. I'm so sorry. I've got a lot of problems. I didn't have a childhood. I got to, you know, I got to make things right.

01:16:49.880 Now he's off in another country.

01:16:52.740 He petitioned the judge.

01:16:54.400 Can I leave the country?

01:16:55.320 The only way I'm going to get help, really good drug help, is in another country.

01:16:59.300 Okay.

01:17:00.040 Which made me think of Matthew Perry's memoir in which he wrote, which was published not long before he died of his addictions.

01:17:07.300 He wrote that he loved going outside of the United States.

01:17:12.120 Know why?

01:17:12.920 Easier to get drugs.

01:17:14.440 Oh, makes sense.

01:17:15.840 And by the way, Charlie Sheen went to American rehabs and eventually one took, in fact, I

01:17:21.980 know Charlie a bit now and I love him, but other friends of ours were in rehab with him

01:17:28.100 and had the most amazing stories about Charlie Sheen on one of the times it didn't take.

01:17:33.540 But anyway, my point is, Charlie Sheen is a household name too.

01:17:37.400 And this was at the height of his fame.

01:17:38.660 He went to an American rehab.

01:17:39.820 Tiger Woods can go to an American.

01:17:40.880 And part of the whole thing, as I understand it, is like humbling yourself and saying, yes, I'm Tiger Woods and I'm an alcoholic or I'm a drug addict.

01:17:48.980 Like the whole thing is to be like, I'm just like you.

01:17:51.020 I'm no better than any of you.

01:17:52.660 And I think the other people there struggling are very quick to accept that. 0.97

01:17:56.580 You know, like they're not fucking worried about you. 0.94

01:17:58.640 They're worried about the life they just blew up that landed them in rehab. 0.96

01:18:01.340 You know who famously talked about this way before this became like a culturally

01:18:06.480 commonplace thing to do was Elizabeth Taylor, who checked herself into Betty Ford, had many 1.00

01:18:13.060 issues with addiction throughout her life. And she came out of Betty Ford and she said,

01:18:17.080 do you know what helped fix me? They didn't treat me like a movie star. I had to clean the toilets

01:18:21.520 just like everybody else. Yeah. That makes perfect sense to me. Tiger didn't kick things off on a

01:18:27.760 good note when we now know, thanks to TMZ, that which got the body cam from the officer, the

01:18:33.420 footage, he called President Trump. Like as soon as he rolled the car and got out of it and the

01:18:41.140 cops like were there, he called the president, which is a douche move, I think. It's very clear

01:18:47.980 he called to try to get out of this somehow. I mean, it's my supposition, but why the hell,

01:18:52.700 You know, there's a statement where he later said to the cops, and we're going to play the body cam, but he later says to the cops on scene, he was very apologetic for what he did last night, the night before Trump had been on The Five on Fox News, and it said, I don't think Tiger's going to play the Masters this year.

01:19:10.580 So he apparently outed a confidence that he received from Tiger.

01:19:14.040 And keep in mind, he knows Tiger from the golf course, their friends, and also Trump's now former daughter-in-law is dating him, Vanessa Trump, Don Jr.'s ex.

01:19:22.700 So it sounds like Trump said something he wasn't at liberty to say and had apologized to Tiger in that phone call.

01:19:30.040 So I suppose there's a chance that Trump called Tiger to apologize just in a few seconds after the rollover.

01:19:37.640 But I'm going to go with Tiger called him and asked for some help because he knew this was going to be a PR disaster and potentially a legal one.

01:19:46.400 Both were correct.

01:19:47.740 And here's the body cam footage showing what the cops heard.

01:19:51.120 get you to hang out down here with us please

01:19:53.640 thank you so much

01:19:55.440 all right you got it all right thank you

01:19:57.640 say again i just keep you down here with us please

01:20:03.500 yeah i was just talking to the president

01:20:05.420 oh yeah he was very apologetic for what he did last night

01:20:14.360 yeah so that was his manager uh with that exchange about very

01:20:20.880 apologetic for what he did last night there's no question he called him try to get himself out of

01:20:24.640 it and the whole thing has got privilege written all over it maureen you know you you and i rolling

01:20:29.600 a vehicle like eyes pupils dilated keeping our sunglasses on you think the cops would allow us

01:20:36.840 to keep our sunglasses on hell no showing up and walk away and just walk stroll all over that that's

01:20:42.420 a crime scene um what i love about that is it shows so i think he i think he was sure to try

01:20:50.020 to get the president on the phone so that he could be on the phone if he really was with the

01:20:56.540 president at the very moment when the cops were rolling up the way megan markle gets down on the 1.00

01:21:01.060 floor and cries and waits for harry to come home and catch her spontaneously on the floor crying 1.00

01:21:06.360 um so he's like he's he's like yeah uh just got just got off now what's interesting there is the

01:21:11.880 cop doesn't say who are you talking to no there's no provoking question he volunteers oh hey i was

01:21:18.740 just on the phone with the president right as one does it's like when they when the cop pulled

01:21:23.460 justin timberlake over in sag harbor two summers ago and he said hey what are you doing and jt goes

01:21:28.880 i'm on a world tour oh you know right but they they they want and um he should have said

01:21:35.760 bringing sexy back

01:21:37.560 oh it's hard to explain what i'm doing to the culture uh mr policeman i was just speaking to

01:21:47.340 my wife, Jessica Biel, but I'll get right back with you, officer. Here's the other thing.

01:21:53.080 He, I was on the nerve this morning. I was talking about the way The View was discussing

01:22:00.140 this and Sonny Hostin was saying these things about he's in pain. He's had all these surgeries.

01:22:07.760 By the way, he's had multiple surgeries on that leg he almost lost because of a crash.

01:22:11.960 he caused speeding, going 90 miles per hour in a 45 mile per hour lane in like a very twisty road,

01:22:19.260 you know? So it's like, and by the way, they didn't, they didn't give him a test then like

01:22:22.620 a breathalyzer or a urine test because they thought it was like near death and they thought

01:22:27.020 it would be disrespectful. But I mean, what are the odds that he was not on something for that

01:22:31.840 one too? What are the odds? I mean, talk about rehab and somebody who really needs rehab.

01:22:38.460 But Sonny Hostin was saying, oh, you know, it's this, it's that.

01:22:42.160 She had a million excuses for him.

01:22:44.620 I love to call Sonny America's preeminent race hustler. 0.80

01:22:48.500 Yeah.

01:22:48.900 So let's say this was a white athlete who had flipped his car not once but twice,

01:22:54.420 had been collared at least four times for driving under the influence.

01:22:58.060 Now, that's what we know of.

01:22:59.420 This is a habit for this guy.

01:23:00.820 That's true.

01:23:01.760 What other favors did he call in on other potential accidents?

01:23:04.200 Right, exactly.

01:23:05.180 or had covered up or, you know,

01:23:07.440 whatever he's donating to the local PD.

01:23:10.280 So they like look the other way.

01:23:11.500 You know, if this had been a white athlete

01:23:13.700 with this many passes,

01:23:14.880 Sonny would be screaming white privilege all day long.

01:23:17.980 That's very true.

01:23:19.160 That is 100% true.

01:23:20.980 And meanwhile, she's bitching about how her son 1.00

01:23:22.860 who was training for a marathon

01:23:23.900 was running in her very ritzy neighborhood.

01:23:26.160 And she felt the need to go down to the police station

01:23:28.660 to say, he's running, he's mine.

01:23:30.500 He's mine, don't you bother him. 0.95

01:23:32.760 Like it's just a bunch of racist cops 0.98

01:23:34.580 sitting in her Tony neighborhood 1.00

01:23:36.560 waiting to track down the black kids who are running. 0.93

01:23:39.960 I mean, she's a loom, but you're right. 1.00

01:23:41.660 She is a race hustler. 0.97

01:23:42.500 She wasn't always like this.

01:23:44.400 Here's more.

01:23:45.760 It's video.

01:23:47.320 He's there in the back of the squad car

01:23:50.000 and he's hiccuping and closing his eyes

01:23:53.140 like he's napping.

01:23:54.680 Here's Tiger.

01:23:55.980 All right, as you can see, he can barely,

01:23:57.020 look, he's hiccuping.

01:23:59.120 This is so weird, Maureen.

01:24:00.660 I mean, he looks so out of it.

01:24:02.200 He looks like he's nodding off.

01:24:03.420 Yeah, he is. Like, obviously he is severely impaired and got behind the wheel of a car like this. The cops, they're no idiots. Like, they knew he was impaired, even though he didn't fail the breathalyzer. They knew it was an alcohol and his, you know, walking test was a nightmare.

01:24:23.400 And then here's a picture of him with the, with the blanket over his head in the squad car.

01:24:30.200 And he looks like he is like in Mecca.

01:24:34.520 I know.

01:24:35.260 What is this?

01:24:36.720 What is this?

01:24:37.540 For the listening audience, I, you almost, you just, you gotta, you just gotta tune into the show to look at it.

01:24:41.800 It's, it's an hour and 30 minutes into the broadcast just about.

01:24:45.060 And he's got like, it looks like a Mother Teresa veil over the top of his head or like, you know, head covering.

01:24:50.360 and he's looking up to the heavens

01:24:52.140 and he's got his two hands

01:24:53.320 almost in the prayerful position.

01:24:56.700 I don't, there's something very eerie about that shot.

01:24:59.460 It's almost one of like religious supplication

01:25:02.140 slash mortification.

01:25:04.140 I truly believe if Andy Warhol were still with us,

01:25:07.240 this would be a triptych for the ages,

01:25:09.220 you know, or one of those four panel things he did.

01:25:12.660 This is the earlier though,

01:25:14.540 the earlier footage we were looking at of him

01:25:16.400 like nodding off and hiccuping.

01:25:18.000 You know, what he said he was on, he told the cops when they pulled those two pills out of his pocket, oh, those are narcos, which to me sounds like street lingo.

01:25:28.520 Oh, wait, we have that here.

01:25:29.700 Let's watch Sat 6.

01:25:31.780 I'm down, my phone, and all of a sudden, boom.

01:25:36.700 I'm going to just take a listen.

01:25:37.700 I'm going to just like take – is this comfortable for you?

01:25:39.980 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:40.460 You all right?

01:25:40.840 Okay.

01:25:41.160 Yeah, I'm cool.

01:25:41.900 I'm so cool. 0.99

01:25:43.860 I don't feel anything out of the asshole. 0.99

01:25:45.840 We're going to have our medic come and check you out, all right? 1.00

01:25:47.660 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:48.000 He's getting the, like, follow my finger to the left and right testing sticker.

01:26:03.140 He's doing some fist thing.

01:26:08.720 He's getting arrested now.

01:26:18.000 and you're under that unknown substance.

01:26:20.060 Okay, so at this time you're at the risk for DUI.

01:26:22.280 Yes, sir.

01:26:23.240 Get a bag.

01:26:24.500 Get a bag.

01:26:25.140 Yeah, please hold it.

01:26:27.220 Can you just take that?

01:26:28.460 Yeah, that's a narco. 0.80

01:26:30.620 It's narco?

01:26:31.400 Yeah.

01:26:31.920 There are the pills right out of his pocket.

01:26:34.920 You were saying about narco.

01:26:36.060 It's a narco, he says.

01:26:37.120 So he's, it seems just my opinion that he's addicted to opiates.

01:26:43.560 That's a fancy way of saying heroin.

01:26:45.960 Your doctor gave you some heroin and pill form.

01:26:48.740 I think Tiger Woods, he was nodding off

01:26:50.940 in the back of that patrol car.

01:26:52.300 I think we should start speaking about him

01:26:54.080 in the appropriate parlance.

01:26:55.980 Tiger Woods is a junkie.

01:26:57.740 He may be one of golf's greatest players ever,

01:27:00.420 if not the greatest, he's also a junkie.

01:27:03.340 And I think the culture really needs to begin 0.99

01:27:06.400 and the media needs to begin discussing this,

01:27:09.080 like the public emergency and menace it is.

01:27:11.860 He should not be giving back his license.

01:27:13.640 Absolutely not.

01:27:14.420 And he should be facing prison time.

01:27:16.700 So we did on, I really loved doing this segment,

01:27:20.040 this Tiger segment we did.

01:27:21.460 I ended it with, do you remember when Robert Downey Jr.

01:27:24.260 was going crazy in the 90s?

01:27:26.640 And he, the final straw was he was,

01:27:29.780 a stranger came home and found Robert Downey Jr.

01:27:34.380 passed out in their child's bedroom.

01:27:36.400 Oh God.

01:27:36.960 On drugs.

01:27:37.720 This was in Malibu.

01:27:38.340 Wait, a random person went to their own home

01:27:41.340 and he was in their child's bedroom?

01:27:43.780 Passed out.

01:27:44.420 Oh, my gosh.

01:27:45.540 On drugs.

01:27:46.560 And this guy had been given pass after pass because he was Robert Downey Jr.

01:27:50.700 And he was a rich white movie star and sure he had a drug problem, but who was he hurting?

01:27:55.740 At his sentence, which was filmed in court and televised, the judge said, I'm out of reasons.

01:28:02.120 You are a threat to the rest of us.

01:28:04.420 I'm going to make this very unpleasant for you. 0.99

01:28:06.840 You're going to prison.

01:28:08.380 And then Robert Downey Jr. is seen visibly smirking and laughing while he's being led away in handcuffs.

01:28:14.540 Smash cut to a few months later,

01:28:16.100 he's doing an interview from behind bars.

01:28:18.100 And he says, you know, when you get here

01:28:20.800 and you see razor wire and armed guards,

01:28:23.940 it really sinks in that you have been separated

01:28:27.020 and removed from society

01:28:28.380 because society needs protection from you.

01:28:32.060 And it's not an ego bath.

01:28:34.200 And it's not supposed to be one.

01:28:35.740 And that's what Tiger Woods needs.

01:28:37.280 I'm sorry, that's what he needs.

01:28:38.740 He does.

01:28:39.080 He needs some serious, tough love right now.

01:28:41.860 That story reminded me of something not exactly on point, but somewhat related.

01:28:45.560 When our kids were really young, we had a nanny.

01:28:48.640 She was not living.

01:28:50.920 Oh, it wasn't our nanny.

01:28:52.500 Our nanny was like on vacation or something. 0.98

01:28:54.200 And it was like a part-time babysitter who would come sometimes to like sub.

01:28:58.480 She was a younger gal. 0.95

01:28:59.560 She was like 22.

01:29:00.900 And she showed up late that day.

01:29:02.700 And I remember being like, I had to go to work.

01:29:04.320 And I was like, where is she?

01:29:05.520 She showed up late. 0.99

01:29:06.200 It was a little weird.

01:29:07.000 She wasn't the most responsible person.

01:29:08.840 And then I couldn't find her.

01:29:10.720 like a half an hour into, I'm like, where'd she go? I got to tell her what's going on today,

01:29:15.140 the plans. Couldn't find her anywhere. I found her in Yates's, that's our oldest,

01:29:21.760 in his bed under the sheets asleep. I'm like, oh my God, what are you doing in my child's bed

01:29:31.140 under his, he wasn't there, like under his sheets. She's like, oh, I feel terrible.

01:29:36.080 I'm like, all of one reason why you shouldn't be in my child's bed with your head on his pillow.

01:29:43.060 You would have stripped that bed.

01:29:44.540 We did.

01:29:45.420 I mean, your part-time babysitter clearly had a night before showing up.

01:29:52.060 It was great.

01:29:52.720 We did.

01:29:53.080 We're like, you need to go home.

01:29:54.800 You're good.

01:29:55.180 We're good.

01:29:55.660 We got this.

01:29:56.520 But it was a shocking sight.

01:29:57.900 That is shocking.

01:29:58.900 That is shocking.

01:30:00.680 Hello.

01:30:01.740 Hello, ma'am.

01:30:05.180 All right.

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01:31:42.580 We are back now with Maureen Callahan and a major win for Justin Baldoni just in time for their trial.

01:31:52.380 His and Blake Lively is coming up in May. The judge threw out her sexual harassment claims against him. He kept her retaliation claim and another claim. But the main claim that he sexually harassed her is out because she was basing it on an agreement that he never actually signed and no one from his company actually signed.

01:32:16.600 And it took all this litigation and a hundred and what, 40 page opinion for the judge to say that.

01:32:23.400 And this is just a harbinger of things to come, Maureen, because she's got more humiliation waiting for her if they actually do go to court on this thing. 0.61

01:32:31.860 They had a big mediation.

01:32:33.760 They brought, they couldn't, they got nowhere.

01:32:36.060 They hate each other so much now.

01:32:39.280 And I know her lawyer.

01:32:41.540 He's my lawyer too, Brian Friedman.

01:32:42.980 And it's a funny story between the two of us.

01:32:46.600 I met him. He was opposing counsel on a case in which I was getting sued. It's a long story,

01:32:52.840 but a former agent of mine, it went away, but he was representing the agency. And so he had to

01:33:01.680 take my deposition. And I was like, I can't stand this bastard. He's such a bastard because I'd been 1.00

01:33:05.740 watching him. And then when he took my deposition, we totally bonded. I fell in love with the guy 1.00

01:33:10.040 instead of like hating him. I'm like, he's so good. And I really related. We talked about

01:33:13.160 everything. I had nothing to hide. So it was like, anyway, that's Brian Friedman. But before we got

01:33:18.060 rid of the case, we had a mediation and he showed up and he was such a prick at that mediation again

01:33:22.500 before the deposition and he wouldn't budge at all. And I remember being like, why is he such a 0.51

01:33:26.500 prick? He he's all the way here from California. He's not even like discussing. They were supposed 0.98

01:33:31.400 to be mediating. Like, why am I here? And the message that came back from him was, I really

01:33:37.240 love New York this time of year. I was like, I hate him. Now keep in mind, I literally love him.

01:33:42.520 more than 1%. He's like in my top 1% of people on earth. But that's what Blake Lively is now up

01:33:50.420 against. So I'm sure the mediation didn't go better for her than it went for me. And she's

01:33:57.140 going to have to face him in court. He's going to cross-examine her, which should be her worst

01:34:03.900 nightmare. She should be under the covers at night praying somehow she can get out of this.

01:34:09.880 And I tell you, Maureen, I don't know what's left of her reputation to ruin because I feel like most of the country now gets what she has done to this guy.

01:34:18.100 I think it was more weighted towards her, maybe 65, 35 when it first started.

01:34:22.900 And now I think it's exactly the opposite.

01:34:25.060 And it's only going to go more in his direction if we go to trial.

01:34:27.920 But how do you see it?

01:34:29.620 I think this is so, I feel like it's over.

01:34:33.300 It's over.

01:34:33.760 The judge tossed the meat of her complaint, the spine of her, the only stuff that had real teeth. 1.00

01:34:39.500 And I actually, I remember reading this New York Times story when it came out.

01:34:42.920 And I actually, I think that the court of public opinion was more like 90-10, you know?

01:34:48.360 It was so detailed.

01:34:49.660 It's true.

01:34:50.080 And the things she was alleging were so awful and specific.

01:34:54.540 And when the things-

01:34:55.420 And cherry picked.

01:34:56.200 And cherry picked.

01:34:57.380 And then as we all began to hear Justin's side of the story, and I feel like it's been a very effective, I don't know if it's Brian, I don't know if it's publicist, Justin has the both.

01:35:08.760 it's brian effective drip drip drip an effective um releasing of information in a very in a way

01:35:17.740 that's very consumable when people are ready to hear it i think what also has really helped um

01:35:23.380 damn blake lively's claims were the release um in the last batch uh that i i forget who broke it but

01:35:32.340 all of her emails to her A-list friends, such as Matt Damon, Ben Affleck. 0.99

01:35:37.300 Oh, ridiculous.

01:35:38.840 Hey, listen, this movie's been a mess, but you know, like I'm taking control of it and 0.78

01:35:43.240 I just need you to call this studio head and say, hey, give it to Blake.

01:35:47.860 I think those were exhibits in the motions for summary judgment on the proof that it

01:35:50.940 had been amassed by each side so far.

01:35:54.220 What wasn't in those documents, in any of those emails or text messages was, guys, I

01:36:00.380 need your help.

01:36:00.980 He's sexually harassing me.

01:36:02.820 I can't show up to work.

01:36:04.640 I'm just trying to breastfeed my newborn.

01:36:06.620 And he's walking in on me.

01:36:08.000 And he's showing me photos, images of his wife giving birth.

01:36:11.200 I need your help.

01:36:12.040 I'm just a girl in distress on a movie set.

01:36:15.340 I've got my dragons.

01:36:17.080 I've got my dragons.

01:36:18.400 Taylor Swift, that friendship is burned to the ground.

01:36:21.160 She's going to show up in a federal courthouse in lower Manhattan in May. 1.00

01:36:25.640 It's going to be a media circus.

01:36:28.460 Yes.

01:36:28.740 In June, Taylor Swift is getting married.

01:36:31.900 Oh, yeah.

01:36:32.500 It's going to be, this is not a good year for, I predict, I predict Ryan Reynolds will be filing for divorce before the year is out.

01:36:39.640 I don't know about the timing, but I don't think that marriage will last because clearly she's a very small person.

01:36:44.460 Although maybe he's very small too and just does a better job of hiding it.

01:36:47.620 Rarely is there that big a gulf between partners, you know?

01:36:50.940 They're very well matched.

01:36:52.300 I think they may be.

01:36:53.500 So, but she is clearly, she's been caught lying.

01:36:57.000 I mean, that's really the thing.

01:36:57.940 Like the thing about the breastfeeding is a great example.

01:36:59.620 Like he, we walked into my trailer and me breastfeeding and then his side produced the

01:37:03.260 text message of her being like, yeah, you can come to my trailer. 0.51

01:37:05.780 FYI, I'm breastfeeding, but it's fine.

01:37:07.340 So like, you omitted a few things.

01:37:09.920 So now it's down to the retaliation claim.

01:37:12.000 And this is why I think she's doomed because that claim is a, is based on the PR that she 1.00

01:37:19.380 claims was unleashed against her after she complained about the sexual harassment, which

01:37:24.820 again, she's now lost on the sex harassment, that he hired a PR firm and that there's these

01:37:31.120 snarky messages amongst his PR team. That's how this case first opened in the New York Times

01:37:35.880 because they got all the messages. And the message is like, you know, we're going to sink her and,

01:37:41.240 you know, she's dead and whatever she's done. And as soon as Brian Friedman came out and

01:37:45.700 contextualized those, and he did that on this show. And Steve, can you find that episode number

01:37:50.460 so we can refer the audience.

01:37:53.620 We went through each one of them.

01:37:55.540 And what you actually see is Justin Baldoni

01:37:58.680 was in a defensive crouch 1.00

01:38:00.600 because this bully bitch was all over him. 1.00

01:38:06.080 She had wrested control of his movie from him. 1.00

01:38:07.940 She had made him go downstairs in the basement

01:38:09.940 for the premiere of his movie.

01:38:11.400 She had been threatening him.

01:38:13.260 He understood full well that his career was probably done 0.98

01:38:16.380 because she was such a bully. 0.90

01:38:17.900 And she had threatened the dragons, 0.96

01:38:19.300 Taylor Swift and Ryan Reynolds had her back and could crush anybody. And he hired a PR firm just

01:38:25.340 in case she was coming for him. She made everybody in the cast unfollow him on Instagram. So he saw

01:38:32.500 it coming. Like she is going to try to ruin me because I didn't let her steal the movie and I

01:38:36.780 did try to fight back. And so he, of course, what should he do? The episode is 977. So worth your

01:38:43.160 time. Like on the weekend, just you can go back and look at it. But what should he have done?

01:38:48.220 And were the PR hacks who are always nasty behind the scenes supposed to speak the Queen's English in coming up with their potential plan if Blake had unleashed on Justin what they would do to try to protect him?

01:39:00.860 Should they have said, well, we might issue a strongly worded letter to the New York Times?

01:39:06.120 Right. Of course, they sound like PR hacks because that's what they were.

01:39:08.900 So I just think she's in trouble.

01:39:10.400 All she's left with is that sad little piece of her claims.

01:39:13.980 Exactly. So she can attempt to destroy his career and reputation so he can never work again. And he's supposed to not fight back. In some substance, that's how I understand it to be.

01:39:27.040 She can be as vicious and malicious as she cares to be, and no one is to push back in the interest of saving themselves. 0.99

01:39:36.200 So what I love for Blake is that she is done, because I do not see how another director gets in league with her and doesn't think she's going to try to pull some shit like this. 0.99

01:39:46.140 Yes. 0.99

01:39:46.780 Who would trust her?

01:39:48.120 Meanwhile, I would happily put money in Justin Baldoni's pocket.

01:39:51.960 I'll go pay.

01:39:53.240 I'll pay to see whatever he does next just as a vote in the culture.

01:39:57.320 Like, I don't like this.

01:39:58.640 And by the way, Blake is hurting other women.

01:40:01.600 Every time someone this high profile lies about sexual harassment, you set the rest of real victims back. 1.00

01:40:08.440 So fuck her. 1.00

01:40:09.560 Yeah. 1.00

01:40:09.980 Fuck her. 1.00

01:40:10.460 She got up at the Time 100 and told this whole speech, gave this whole speech about her mother's alleged sexual assault, which was just so cynical. 1.00

01:40:21.700 Blake has not suffered anything like that, and we all know it.

01:40:25.840 So she took her mother's alleged experience to have, like, stolen valor, you know, for herself.

01:40:32.080 Like, my poor mom.

01:40:33.400 Okay, it's not you.

01:40:34.260 It's allegedly your mom.

01:40:36.000 And we all know what you're doing.

01:40:37.740 You're trying to cast yourself with the basking of the Me Too, you know, glow of comfort and sorrow and support from your fellow women and others who are here.

01:40:46.980 And you're a glamour. 0.98

01:40:48.320 You're a faker.

01:40:49.200 You've undermined any Me Too claims that are out there

01:40:52.180 because people are more skeptical of them 0.98

01:40:54.180 when they have liars like you, our opinion. 0.98

01:40:56.840 Stand by, we have more to do. 0.98

01:40:59.600 We're not wrapping it up.

01:41:01.040 We're gonna take a quick commercial break

01:41:02.380 and then we will be right back with Maureen Callahan.

01:41:04.820 Don't forget to go and subscribe to The Nerve

01:41:06.200 while I have you.

01:41:07.300 Oh, and by the way, also go to megankelly.com.

01:41:10.380 Today is the day we send out

01:41:12.120 the greatest American news minute of all time.

01:41:15.760 Strudwick, he's always the number one most clicked on item.

01:41:18.060 Only when Trump was shot was he second, okay?

01:41:21.540 People love the Strubwick updates.

01:41:23.660 I got video.

01:41:24.840 I caught him in the act.

01:41:26.700 There's an eyewitness.

01:41:28.100 It's a whole crime scene.

01:41:29.940 Just go to megankelly.com and sign up now. 0.53

01:41:48.060 from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly,

01:41:53.340 Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megyn Kelly channel,

01:41:59.820 Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app. Maureen Callahan of The Nerve is our guest today. Go and

01:42:12.100 become a troublemaker. You can check it all out. Go to podcasts, go to YouTube, and you can just

01:42:16.780 go to thenervshow.com if you want links to all of those things. I do want to get to Michelle Obama

01:42:22.560 because we teased it at the top, and it's an important message from Michelle. She's got

01:42:28.000 something new and innovative and shocking to tell us. It does relate to her marriage. She had on

01:42:36.420 Steph Curry, the basketball star, and his lovely wife, Aisha, who came on my show when I was at

01:42:43.140 NBC. She's a chef and she was so effervescent. She was like sparkling in her personality. She 0.52

01:42:49.780 was very warm, very sweet. I've never met him, but they went on Michelle's loser podcast.

01:42:55.940 Unfortunately, someone misled them. And here's the first exchange I'm going to show you in

01:43:00.140 17. Aisha, I love that you are plain spoken in life and sort of like me, but sometimes,

01:43:08.320 you're stating what feels like the obvious sometimes in life, and then people interpret

01:43:15.400 that the wrong way, right? And I love your vulnerability and your honesty because I think

01:43:27.380 that's what helps people. It's one thing to be hashtag relationship goals, but it's another to

01:43:35.300 tell the truth about what it takes. And I tend to do that when I talk about the challenges of

01:43:40.560 marriage and that it's not all that. It's like, I love my husband. I like my husband. But we also

01:43:47.740 want to be a part of helping couples understand that it does take work and it is hard, even in

01:43:53.920 the best marriages. These are what we call lies. You know who I feel most sorry for there is Craig.

01:44:03.700 Brother Craig. Sitting there like a lump on a log. I got to hear this shit again.

01:44:09.240 All right. It's nonstop. And I'm sorry, but let's just have some real talk. Aisha is sitting next 1.00

01:44:16.460 to, and he is a huge star. Steph Curry is adored. People love him. I do believe it's very, this is

01:44:25.640 the deal when you're a woman married to a pro player at that level. Part of the deal is you

01:44:30.580 look the other way. Michelle Obama wants to have a real conversation about that. I'm all in.

01:44:36.260 Everyone would listen to that. Instead of this generic boilerplate, marriage can be hard work. 1.00

01:44:40.220 I mean, you know, I just love to remind people it's not all that, you know, I mean.

01:44:44.200 And then she's got to make it about herself, Hoda, right? Like, yeah, just why don't you just

01:44:51.420 interview your guests instead of being like, she's working at her own issues, you know, like

01:44:56.280 you have to be honest about how hard it is. And then there's blowback and people misunderstand

01:45:00.720 you. I try to do that on this show. I don't, I don't sugarcoat anything, even though I definitely

01:45:04.900 like Barack and I love Barack. Oh, sure. Sure. Jan, sure. No one believes that. Like no one

01:45:10.220 believes that. And as we're watching her and listening to her, so we don't know this. I just

01:45:15.820 believe that she's on a GLP one. Oh, and yeah, probably she's a lot thinner than she used to be, 0.99

01:45:21.920 But it's not just that she's lost a lot of weight.

01:45:24.680 It's that now her face is beginning to become very wizened and she's beginning to have some skin sagging, like real drooping.

01:45:34.060 What does wizened mean?

01:45:35.620 It's like, think of like the Wicked Witch of the West, like old and dry and like you've got some folds in there.

01:45:41.400 Oh, no, you don't want that.

01:45:42.220 Yeah.

01:45:42.980 Starting to hide it with the hair.

01:45:44.920 Exactly.

01:45:45.900 That's a great catch.

01:45:46.960 She's trying to hide what's going on there with the hair.

01:45:49.540 and then she's losing all of her muscle mass 1.00

01:45:52.260 because the GLP-1s eat that up.

01:45:53.960 They eat up your muscles.

01:45:55.720 But what I feel like we're seeing

01:45:57.320 is the outsides matching the insides

01:45:59.220 where it's just this constant,

01:46:01.200 it's a war of attrition in there

01:46:02.740 and she's always going to lose

01:46:04.340 because Michelle Obama is not interested in being happy.

01:46:07.200 Yeah.

01:46:07.500 She's not.

01:46:08.260 My producer watched the whole thing.

01:46:09.660 I wasn't going to do that.

01:46:10.660 I love you, but not that much.

01:46:12.980 And she said,

01:46:14.020 the whole exchange is Michelle Obama

01:46:16.920 saying something super negative

01:46:18.760 and Ayesha Curry just being like, 0.98

01:46:20.900 oh, well, it's fine.

01:46:22.080 You know, like she's positive and optimistic

01:46:24.960 and I think actually does love her husband,

01:46:27.700 unlike her interviewer,

01:46:29.540 who is none of those things

01:46:31.300 and is not in love

01:46:32.960 and sees her marriage and her children

01:46:35.180 as sources of misery.

01:46:37.260 So it was a complete mismatch here.

01:46:39.200 Let's take another look at some of the exchange

01:46:41.760 in SOT18.

01:46:43.340 And it gets easier over time.

01:46:45.780 I mean, I've been saying this a lot.

01:46:48.760 It's like I'm 62 now and it wasn't until my 50s that I felt like I could claim what I know.

01:47:00.260 I understand.

01:47:01.180 You know, and I think that may be a woman thing, right? 0.99

01:47:04.360 I mean, men are encouraged to, you know, like you're a man at 20.

01:47:09.460 It's like you don't know anything, you know?

01:47:11.380 I mean, you both were the men in high school.

01:47:14.400 You didn't know anything, you know?

01:47:15.800 But you're handed that, you know, you're encouraged to be that, right?

01:47:22.120 Whereas us as women, we're always second-guessing ourselves and wondering,

01:47:26.620 he doesn't really like me.

01:47:28.000 And we don't get to make the first move sometimes in life, you know?

01:47:32.860 And I'm trying to figure out what that is, because it's not that I wasn't confident.

01:47:37.560 But it took me a while to be like, I know what I'm talking about.

01:47:43.600 Oh, my God.

01:47:44.600 do you? I think you should go back to the way you were in your forties. You were right then,

01:47:49.720 not now. I truly don't know what she's talking about. Because I'm listening to her say,

01:47:55.040 we as women, I wasn't able to, I don't know what claim what I know means.

01:47:59.280 Right. Like, okay, so you have things you know, but you can't claim them. But if you know them,

01:48:05.520 they're inside of you. So who else would be claiming those things? Like, I don't get it,

01:48:09.960 right? And then she says, you know, we're not told to understand ourselves when I'm thinking

01:48:16.060 back to, you know, she grew up on Oprah like the rest of us. The Oprah industrial complex was all

01:48:23.220 about the self-actualization of women. Claim it. Knowing oneself, living your best life,

01:48:29.080 being authentic, finding joy. Like she's spouting a lot of nothing. And then if she, so she's

01:48:35.240 claiming, poor Steph Curry, he's sitting there. She's like, in my fifties, I could claim one and

01:48:39.280 know he's like yeah right on i'll just do what brother craig does yeah right on sure sure sure

01:48:46.240 sure sure sure sure and uh she's just she's nobody nobody really knows what to say to her

01:48:50.920 because no i don't understand what it is she's actually saying no it's like uh sorry uh it's

01:48:55.820 like um my brother he he'll laugh we'll be sitting with my mom and she'll get like on a tear about

01:49:01.060 some memory or something like that and there's like a couple people whom my mom my mom definitely

01:49:06.260 doesn't like who have wronged her the course of her life. And she, she, she will go into a thing

01:49:10.860 where she likes to talk about them. And my brother will sometimes just to get her going to be like,

01:49:14.880 how's, and he'll throw up and he'll look at me and I'll go, put another log on that fire.

01:49:20.980 That's a brother cracker. That's what Steph Curry's doing. Yeah. Right. Sure. Right on.

01:49:26.360 And everything from her is negative morning. Like, do we ever run a positive sign where

01:49:30.480 Michelle Obama was like, I'm so grateful. My life is so amazing. I've had so many gifts and I just

01:49:35.380 want to share with my audience how great life is and how like your life can be awesome too.

01:49:41.520 And about looking on the bright side when, when life deals you lemons. No, she's like,

01:49:46.660 when you get a big glass of lemonade, you find the seed floating in there and you complain about it.

01:49:52.680 You got to wonder what those production meetings are like, you know, or like how they're, I don't

01:49:57.940 like, I, it truly, like you just said, it boggles the mind. This woman spends summers on yachts with

01:50:04.380 the likes of Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks. She travels the world at a moment's notice. She has

01:50:11.460 access to anything and anyone she wants. She doesn't have to worry about another bill in her

01:50:16.200 life. She doesn't own a yacht, Maureen. And you know why? Because it's racist. Because she's black 1.00

01:50:21.080 and this is a racist country. That's obviously it. All right, now wait, this woman is not rich, 1.00

01:50:27.120 but what she's saying is rich. Melissa Gilbert has sat down with George Stephanopoulos

01:50:33.920 The interview is going to air next week, so you haven't seen it yet, but they released a tease, a clip, and it's about her husband, Timothy Busfield, who's under arrest and facing charges for allegedly behaving inappropriately with young children, molesting one and inappropriately touching another, which he denies, and we've reported that the parents of said children are definite grifters, in my opinion.

01:51:00.640 They have a long history of fraud and related charges behind them.

01:51:03.920 Doesn't mean their children are lying, but it is an important piece to the story.

01:51:08.380 However, in the course of this proceeding, multiple women have come forward with stories about Timothy Busfield, where he did pay out a settlement, where they did go on record, where he begged them for apology, where he had to stave off criminal charges by promising to go into rehab and so on.

01:51:25.760 So we've learned a lot about her gross husband.

01:51:28.960 doesn't mean he's a child molester doesn't make him a good guy because there's a slew of women 1.00

01:51:34.120 who have come forward um she goes out there and says the following in this preview clip watch

01:51:40.400 what is this whole episode been like for you hell this has been the most traumatizing experience

01:51:48.000 of our lives um our life as we knew it is done we are grieving what we had we all of our plans

01:51:56.660 all of our dreams, all of our ideas, all of our projects. For Tim, it's done. He's canceled.

01:52:02.980 And this will never, even if he's exonerated, he will always be that guy,

01:52:08.280 the last person in the world who would hurt a child. And believe me, if I thought for a second

01:52:14.380 that Tim Busfield hurt a child, he'd have a lot more to worry about than prison.

01:52:19.120 Oh, do you care about the women? I mean, some of the women who have accused him were 16 and 17.

01:52:24.280 I guess, okay. She lectured me about how those are also victims, which I agree with, of Jeffrey Epstein's, women of that age, 15, 16, whatever. I agree. I never said otherwise. She misrepresented me. But now she excludes that age group and saying he would never hurt a child. What's a 16-year-old?

01:52:43.640 That's so interesting.

01:52:44.260 Right now, he never heard a child.

01:52:45.460 Oh, that's so interesting.

01:52:46.220 Okay, and here's the other thing.

01:52:48.020 What kind of a way of talking is that

01:52:50.100 when this trial has yet to be held?

01:52:52.840 We don't know.

01:52:53.920 We, the public, do not know

01:52:55.600 whether those boys are telling the truth or not.

01:52:57.540 They haven't had their day in court.

01:52:59.480 And she's out there styling the both of them

01:53:02.280 as the victims here.

01:53:04.260 He's done, our lives are over as we knew it.

01:53:06.420 We have projects, projects in the work, Maureen.

01:53:09.240 Like what?

01:53:10.140 I don't know, but like, so tone deaf too.

01:53:12.320 Like, what's been alleged is that he has molested at least one boy and behaved inappropriately with the brother, too. 0.99

01:53:19.060 No one gives a shit about your projects. 0.98

01:53:21.060 Can you speak to the young women who have come forward? 0.99

01:53:23.140 Can you say anything to the boys?

01:53:25.460 I mean, I guess you think they're fraudsters, but they haven't had their day in court.

01:53:28.600 She just wants to paint herself as a victim before the trial's even taken place.

01:53:34.280 I've had a huge problem with her since this story broke and these charges were brought and he was arraigned.

01:53:40.280 And she showed up at that courthouse in her best little house on the prairie dresses.

01:53:46.660 And I say, when she says we have projects, and I say like, what?

01:53:49.580 Because I mean like, who cares?

01:53:51.360 First of all, you don't – she's like, part of this is about reinforcing that they're power players in Hollywood. 0.97

01:53:56.860 You know, the priorities are so out of whack.

01:54:00.060 They're just so completely absent.

01:54:01.600 And it wasn't part of this also, didn't what we learn have to do with Timothy saying to some of these younger women that part of the reason he was acting out was because he and his wife no longer had sex?

01:54:17.540 Yeah.

01:54:18.020 He's humiliated.

01:54:19.240 No, it wasn't her.

01:54:19.980 No, it was her.

01:54:20.480 It was her?

01:54:21.000 It was Melissa Gilbert.

01:54:21.940 What?

01:54:22.380 Yeah.

01:54:22.560 They got married in 15, if memory serves.

01:54:24.940 And I thought these claims predated that.

01:54:26.860 Oh, they do.

01:54:27.840 Oh, they do.

01:54:28.900 Before they ever got married.

01:54:30.280 Like back when he was, I think, in San Francisco.

01:54:32.980 Didn't he run like a children's theater?

01:54:34.320 Yes, he ran a children's theater.

01:54:35.640 And one of the alleged victims was one of the young girls who was there.

01:54:39.600 Not young.

01:54:40.040 I mean, whatever, 16.

01:54:42.240 We're saying the guy, there's some stuff that does not make one feel good, okay?

01:54:47.280 And Melissa Gilbert put herself back on Instagram nearly immediately with her lifestyle thing, 0.97

01:54:55.040 like trying to sell women on domesticity and wifedom. 1.00

01:54:59.500 Are you kidding me?

01:55:00.860 Yeah.

01:55:01.340 Are you kidding me?

01:55:02.640 What is she out here trying to do? 0.54

01:55:04.020 She had been on the phone with the police

01:55:06.960 when they recited the charges that were coming against him.

01:55:11.380 They told him, you've been accused of sexual touching

01:55:14.800 that's inappropriate with not one, but two boys.

01:55:17.980 And she knew the whole thing.

01:55:19.740 And she was running around trying to cloak herself in glory

01:55:22.020 as like the protector of young people who are molested,

01:55:26.080 whether it's by Epstein or somebody else.

01:55:27.760 and she knew her, her husband was about to be charged with molesting two young boys. She's a

01:55:32.300 hypocrite. She's, she's fake news, honestly, like her whole image and her squeaky little voice. 1.00

01:55:38.800 Our lives have been ruined. No one gives a shit. Okay. No one, no one cares. Speak to the slew of 0.99

01:55:44.320 women who have come forward. How about their lives? What happened to them? I also don't believe 0.78

01:55:49.000 that if the guy is exonerated, he's like absolutely done. Like, I just don't believe it.

01:55:53.760 Like if it's proven that this is a fraud, that, you know, like the anger, the public

01:55:59.040 anger is going to veer towards the parents.

01:56:01.280 Either way, these children are victims, right?

01:56:03.220 They were victimized either by him or by the parents.

01:56:05.880 And children have no business in show business, period.

01:56:08.780 This is like, do we have to learn this lesson a million times over?

01:56:11.960 She, with her public moralizing, I think that's all projection.

01:56:16.700 I think it's deflection and projection.

01:56:18.920 This is the most attention she's gotten in many, many years.

01:56:22.200 She's enjoying it.

01:56:24.620 She's sitting down with George Stephanopoulos.

01:56:26.500 If she were treating this with the gravity it deserves,

01:56:28.880 she would be keeping her mouth shut

01:56:30.140 and her face off of our screens.

01:56:31.720 Yep.

01:56:32.020 No, she's desperate for attention, 1.00

01:56:33.260 which she has been since she was a child.

01:56:35.920 We've got to finish by talking about Love Story.

01:56:38.400 Please.

01:56:39.820 We talked about this before it had really launched

01:56:43.460 when you were on, I don't know, a time or two ago.

01:56:46.820 And my opinion, I was saying this to you in the break,

01:56:50.040 of the two actors playing JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette has changed dramatically. Now I'm

01:56:56.120 totally in favor of them. Now I actually think they are good choices. I love the guy playing

01:57:01.200 JFK Jr. I do too. He's very hunky and he actually is very good. Very good. Um, and I'm, I'm in,

01:57:07.880 and I even think like Doug was like, why is his voice so weird? He, Doug didn't like his voice.

01:57:11.440 I'm like, that's kind of how JFK Jr. sounded. That was his voice. He nailed the voice, right?

01:57:15.780 He didn't have like a deep, resonating, manly voice.

01:57:19.600 He sounded like this guy.

01:57:21.320 It's not bad, but it's not.

01:57:22.840 It's a weird voice.

01:57:23.780 It's a weird voice.

01:57:25.000 And the woman playing Carolyn Bessette, I think, is doing a great job. 0.73

01:57:28.620 Sarah Pidgeon, is that her name?

01:57:30.400 She's very interesting.

01:57:31.360 She's very beautiful to look at.

01:57:32.340 So anyway, I've actually come to really enjoy the series.

01:57:34.660 I'm in episode five.

01:57:35.900 I totally agree with everything you say about Ryan Murphy. 0.99

01:57:38.220 He's disgusting and likely a misogynist. 0.95

01:57:41.500 But I want to get your take on it because what do you think? 0.99

01:57:44.680 And I know, of course, how it ends because I lived it.

01:57:47.240 I watched in 1999 from the Hamptons.

01:57:50.420 Oh, really?

01:57:51.080 Yeah, I was out in the Hamptons when that plane went down.

01:57:53.560 But what do you think is the overall gulf between the way they're being portrayed, these two, by Ryan Murphy on the screen, and the way they actually were in real life?

01:58:03.740 There's something about JFK that he does get right, JFK Jr., which is this sort of shaggy dog, like aimless, like I'm a himbo.

01:58:13.060 He was a himbo. 1.00

01:58:14.680 He was a himbo who didn't really know what he was doing and everything in his life was falling apart. 1.00

01:58:20.980 What they, they shy away from the, see, I think if they had really gone in on the, on the truth, they, I think they're kicking themselves.

01:58:30.600 They would have had two or three seasons.

01:58:32.100 Yeah.

01:58:32.320 This thing is a cultural phenomenon.

01:58:33.500 It's very rare in like our atomized culture where you get something where everyone's kind of obsessed with it.

01:58:40.020 Yes.

01:58:40.180 And everyone is and was, and I get it, but they completely ignore her drug use, which was very heavy, which was a real problem. They completely ignore both of them cheating on each other. They don't really get deep into how damaged both of these people were. They were very damaged people who brought out the worst in each other. And it sort of builds on itself from there as we approach the inevitable end.

01:59:06.600 I know you've also said you think there's a misogynistic like tinge in the way they portray the actual crash because effectively Ryan Murphy at the very beginning of the series, and I'm not on the last episode, but I've heard you talk about it.

01:59:23.320 And of course, I know what actually happened.

01:59:25.520 They blame her.

01:59:27.000 They blame Carolyn Bissette.

01:59:28.420 For getting her nails done.

01:59:29.560 For being late.

01:59:30.700 They try to give themselves a little bit of an out.

01:59:33.040 Here's the thing.

01:59:33.900 This is where I think representation sometimes matters.

01:59:38.660 It's Ryan Murphy.

01:59:40.160 It's under his umbrella.

01:59:41.520 And then the showrunner is a man.

01:59:43.400 The creators are a man.

01:59:44.420 And I think you really need a woman in there, a woman who knows what she's talking about.

01:59:47.980 They try to give themselves an out by having Carolyn's mother after the crash in a conversation with Caroline Kennedy that never took place say, you understand the media is blaming my daughter for getting her nails done.

02:00:00.520 Are you aware of that?

02:00:01.380 And Caroline says in a very sort of humbled way, I don't – well, she says I don't read the papers anymore, you know, whatever.

02:00:07.860 But nonetheless, they open the series with that, and they end the series with her sister telling JFK Jr., don't be upset with her that she's running late tonight before they took off.

02:00:20.220 And we get it.

02:00:21.360 We get it.

02:00:22.080 Reinforcing it.

02:00:22.680 And then the way that he chooses to depict the crash, we talked on the nerve, and we showed the photos, and we showed one of the Navy divers who led the recovery of what was left of those bodies.

02:00:35.460 There's very little left.

02:00:36.640 I heard the clips on your show.

02:00:39.720 Yeah, Ryan Murphy depicts it as they hit a little turbulence that night.

02:00:44.940 You have to let me know when you actually watch the finale because I'm going to die to know what you think of it.

02:00:50.140 but um even people who are obsessed with them as a couple and and their quote-unquote love story

02:00:57.540 we're like we don't want to see what went on in the cockpit like don't try to dramatize it like

02:01:02.000 that's kind of a sacred thing like don't dramatize it we have a little bit of it forgive me but uh

02:01:06.480 here's that 22

02:01:07.360 it's okay just breathe

02:01:14.740 John, just breathe.

02:01:22.620 Just breathe.

02:01:39.640 What is that?

02:01:41.600 It's a little light jazz as you're about, you know, like, what is it exactly?

02:01:46.220 And she's sort of very, she's in this very sort of like Zen yoga master way saying, just breathe.

02:01:53.700 There's no chance that happened.

02:01:54.880 Which is like a callback to an earlier part of the series where he goes to her after his mother has died.

02:02:00.840 And he's having like a panic attack.

02:02:02.600 Yes, that's right.

02:02:03.340 Just breathe, right.

02:02:03.960 and um you know those girls in in reality she and her sister were strapped in back to back

02:02:10.520 with him so their backs were to his back yeah so as the plane is in its graveyard spiral

02:02:16.140 the g-forces the gravity would have been pushing them down on their like there was they they knew

02:02:21.760 they knew what was happening you know this this to me is so irresponsible it's because it's not

02:02:27.900 just a cultural document there are people who don't know anything about this and think it's all

02:02:31.860 true. They're going to think that this is how it happens. And their relatives are still alive.

02:02:35.980 This isn't something that happened a hundred years ago. It was 26, seven years ago. So their

02:02:42.120 families have to see this. And it's disrespectful to portray the actual moments before the death

02:02:48.100 when you have no idea, especially when you're Ryan Murphy, you're not known for your care and

02:02:53.500 class and portraying any sort of an event. And her mother is upset, I guess, about the way her 0.97

02:03:00.740 daughter was portrayed in the media that that's we pulled the clip that you're referring to 0.97

02:03:04.340 uh let's play it and then you can tell us what what's happening here so this is um it's a made

02:03:07.980 up scene between carolyn beset's mother and caroline kennedy sat 24 some of the media are

02:03:14.360 saying they crashed because carolyn was getting her nails done delayed their takeoff not that

02:03:23.300 your brother wasn't equipped to fly at night and took off anyway but that she held them back

02:03:29.040 her vanity.

02:03:31.820 Are you aware of that?

02:03:36.520 I stopped reading the news.

02:03:38.780 Well, I have nothing left to protect

02:03:40.360 but their legacies.

02:03:43.760 There are images of your brother

02:03:45.820 beaming around the world

02:03:48.020 on the cover of every newspaper

02:03:50.340 and magazine.

02:03:52.240 Carolyn's photo is usually on the inside

02:03:54.520 and Lauren is practically a footnote, 1.00

02:03:57.120 but she wasn't famous,

02:03:58.340 So I guess her face doesn't sell papers.

02:04:03.660 What's so crazy about this morning, you and I have been talking about this since you wrote Ask Not, is that John F. Kennedy Jr., in your view, clearly had a death wish.

02:04:13.420 And I've heard you say this is almost a murder-suicide, like maybe not, you know, an intentional, I'm going to go murder, you know, but he lived so recklessly in so many ways and was obviously very depressed.

02:04:23.280 and in the way that some people

02:04:25.520 who are very, very depressed

02:04:26.660 just take huge unnecessary risks with their lives

02:04:29.480 because they feel unimportant to them.

02:04:31.780 They don't really care if they end.

02:04:33.520 To me, that seems like why that jet went down.

02:04:37.240 I put it together both on the nerve

02:04:39.560 and ask not why I think that.

02:04:43.220 And a lot of it comes from his historical record

02:04:47.100 of not just placing himself in grave mortal danger,

02:04:50.140 but bullying his girlfriends into doing it with him.

02:04:52.500 Yes.

02:04:53.280 So it's a pathology.

02:04:55.180 It's a pathology.

02:04:56.840 And on the mini tomorrow, I read a bit from Camille Paglia, who I love.

02:05:03.140 And she gave an interview after that crash in which she spoke about all the ways in which it seems like it's so symmetrical that it almost really does feel deliberate.

02:05:16.180 Like he crashed the plane in view of Jackie's Martha's Vineyard estate.

02:05:21.460 He crashed it right there.

02:05:23.500 And the paper, the plane's registration papers washed up on Jackie's beach.

02:05:28.440 And Camille says, you know, it's like he never got over her.

02:05:31.680 And I think there's truth to that.

02:05:33.660 And his life was falling apart on all fronts.

02:05:36.360 He was, his marriage was failing.

02:05:38.100 His magazine was failing.

02:05:39.500 He was a laughingstock.

02:05:40.540 That was the first professional endeavor he had really undertaken.

02:05:44.140 And he was a middle-aged man at the time.

02:05:46.160 So that was a huge humiliation.

02:05:48.100 His sister was no longer speaking with him.

02:05:50.840 His business partner had cut him out of his life, and his best friend and cousin was dying

02:05:55.740 of cancer.

02:05:56.300 He would be dead in a matter of weeks.

02:05:58.420 That's five major catastrophes for someone who had never heard the word no, had zero

02:06:06.640 internal resources, and had been warned repeatedly that night, don't go up.

02:06:13.140 Don't go up.

02:06:14.720 He knew he didn't know how to fly that plane at night.

02:06:17.020 Oh, God.

02:06:17.660 All I keep thinking of is they say you marry the person who has both the best and worst

02:06:24.900 characteristics of your parents.

02:06:28.100 And who knows if there was something inside of him that needed to reenact his dad's assassination

02:06:35.780 in a way.

02:06:36.480 How fascinating.

02:06:37.740 With like, not only would he die, but he needed his female witness. 0.98

02:06:41.780 you know, because he did keep endangering his girlfriends and taking these massive risks that

02:06:48.020 could have led to his own death. And maybe in his mind, at some deep level, it was like,

02:06:51.420 I'll die and she'll be there. She'll, you know, I'm reenacting the same way my dad went out.

02:06:57.580 And yet he killed his bride and her sister in the process.

02:07:02.480 Well, that is a fascinating theory. It never occurs to me, but in thinking about it,

02:07:09.500 It also, a death that young, at the height of your beauty and masculine power.

02:07:16.000 Now, Camille says something also very interesting, that she found it kind of unbelievable that

02:07:21.340 at the age of 38, he had yet to produce an heir, to produce a child, when in mythology

02:07:27.000 such as the Kennedys, heirs are crucial to the realm.

02:07:32.460 But perhaps he thought an early death, a tragic death like that, a violent one, would

02:07:39.060 confer upon his legacy things his actual life never would.

02:07:43.440 Yes.

02:07:44.260 Yes.

02:07:44.900 And that's back to your theory that it was in some ways intentional at some level inside

02:07:50.340 of him, intentional.

02:07:51.940 He wanted it.

02:07:52.660 And it, whatever that sickness was that he was dealing with caused him to take reckless

02:07:58.440 risks before this event that did cost him his life and, and obviously that night.

02:08:05.340 So it's like, I agree with you because it's, I don't think he actually wanted to bring that

02:08:10.800 plane down, but he was completely oblivious to the fact that it might like not, not oblivious,

02:08:17.540 but like impervious. Didn't care. Didn't care. It was like, fine, we're doing it. I don't,

02:08:22.160 I don't really care in the same way. Like a drunk 17 year old will get behind the wheel of a car

02:08:28.080 drunk and drive at 90 miles an hour because they're depressed and they're drunk or whatever, 0.98

02:08:33.780 You know, like take these crazy ass risks, young teenage men in particular. 0.97

02:08:38.160 That's what I see him doing. 0.98

02:08:39.960 And you never, we never hear about like the sister.

02:08:42.860 The sister, yeah, she was completely forgotten.

02:08:45.300 I actually didn't realize there was another sister.

02:08:48.300 Yeah, Lauren is a twin.

02:08:50.320 I don't, I didn't even realize that.

02:08:52.120 The mother has a point in this fictional scene about like- 0.93

02:08:54.440 There was a lot of emotional truth in that scene, a lot.

02:08:57.600 And Lisa lives a very quiet life.

02:08:59.660 She's an academic.

02:09:00.780 She has a longtime partner.

02:09:04.120 She's been with him forever.

02:09:05.980 For a long time, I don't know if this still holds, every summer she leaves the States to avoid coverage of the anniversary of the crash.

02:09:13.000 Yes, you told me this the last time you were on.

02:09:15.660 And once again, it struck me as like, wow, and it makes a lot of sense.

02:09:19.580 But yeah, and what about speaking of the sisters, what's the real truth about Caroline Kennedy? 0.99

02:09:24.920 Apparently, from what I've heard from people who know her raging bitch. 1.00

02:09:28.420 She seems it. 0.99

02:09:29.460 They tried to humanize her a little bit towards the end there. 1.00

02:09:33.260 But, you know, this is so – talk about symmetrical, what you were just saying, you know, the way in which either a depressed or like a reckless 17-year-old will get behind the wheel and the drug – it kind of circles back to the beginning of our talk today about Tiger Woods.

02:09:47.260 He's depressed.

02:09:48.560 Yeah.

02:09:49.040 He's angry.

02:09:50.900 He is as emotionally and psychologically stunted as JFK Jr. was.

02:09:56.560 His parents did it to him. 0.83

02:09:57.840 The culture did it to him.

02:09:59.460 The media allows this.

02:10:01.100 We see prominent media people, you know, and what does he do?

02:10:04.560 He gets behind the wheel.

02:10:05.440 He's reckless.

02:10:06.460 He wants to, this is the other thing Camille says, which again, I just love her.

02:10:11.040 She says, I'm a libertarian.

02:10:12.940 You want to destroy yourself, destroy yourself.

02:10:16.480 That's your right, but you have to keep it to yourself.

02:10:20.720 You cannot risk other people.

02:10:22.800 Yeah.

02:10:23.060 And not only was JFK Jr. risking the lives of Lauren and Carolyn, but of everybody down

02:10:28.100 below, you know, he didn't know.

02:10:29.460 who the remnants of that plane would fall on, you know, who else would be killed if a plane

02:10:33.960 comes down out of the sky. God only knows how many people could be killed. Some people on the water

02:10:38.220 or debris nearby and on land. Um, and tiger, of course, that one's obvious, but yeah,

02:10:43.980 you're exactly right. So it's like another, he's another one who you said, they never said no to

02:10:48.080 him. They also never let him fail. Right. It's like the bar exam doesn't, doesn't, won't prop

02:10:53.000 you up. You pass or you fail. That's it. And so finally he got the help he needed to pass it. He

02:10:56.980 passed it the third time, but the whole country was trying to prop him up to be the next JFK,

02:11:02.360 to be, you know, the next member of Camelot, restore the legacy. And therefore he couldn't

02:11:07.440 fail. Like he couldn't, there was nothing he could touch that could go, that wasn't going to

02:11:11.340 be golden. They needed it. They needed to reenact his dad's life and which ruined him.

02:11:16.660 And that's why I think, well, to what you just said, like who else he could have harmed, you

02:11:20.580 know, it's, it's not reported, but it is in the NTSB report. And I talk about it and ask not,

02:11:25.100 He almost smashed into a packed American Airlines jetliner that night before he crashed the plane.

02:11:30.820 It was only the pilots of that jetliner who avoided that because John Jr. had cut off all of his comms, which, again, the suicidality right there.

02:11:39.900 But what was that last thing you just said about we could – oh, we needed him to be – we needed JFK Jr. to be like this president.

02:11:49.320 That's why I think Ryan Murphy's love story is dangerous in a way, because it is a reaffirmation

02:11:55.900 of this as a fairy tale, right?

02:11:58.260 And it keeps us mentally juvenile, like as a culture, like, well, we needed him to be

02:12:03.520 great.

02:12:03.920 Like, he wasn't great.

02:12:04.980 It wasn't enough that he's just like survived what he did and could just like have a life

02:12:09.560 of any like real consequence.

02:12:11.840 He had to be great.

02:12:13.320 He had to be our next president.

02:12:14.680 He had to be perfect.

02:12:16.220 And nobody could withstand that, right?

02:12:18.820 No, this is why, like, I always make fun of my mom, Linda, but she, the messaging in my house was, you really don't seem special at all, but we're open-minded to specialness.

02:12:29.700 Oh, wow.

02:12:30.480 Yeah, like, if it manifests, cool, but if not, that's fine, too. Like, we love you.

02:12:34.880 Oh, that's interesting. I get that. I get that.

02:12:37.060 And I never felt any pressure, none. I felt no pressure at all.

02:12:40.980 Well, I think that's really healthy.

02:12:42.260 It was. It really was. I mean, I think a lot of parents are afraid to do that to their kid because they think their kid will wind up a loser, right?

02:12:48.260 Like you'll just play to the lowest common denominator.

02:12:50.580 Like I'm not meant to be anything and I'm not anything.

02:12:53.260 That's not how it was.

02:12:54.480 And I think if you're driven, you're driven.

02:12:56.160 Like it's, your drive is gonna, it's gonna come.

02:12:57.960 Yeah.

02:12:58.180 It happens with a lot of people

02:12:59.300 when they're a little bit older,

02:13:00.560 when they get, you know, a little bit more mature.

02:13:02.040 Yeah.

02:13:02.760 But I really don't think the constant,

02:13:04.340 like, first of all, the constant,

02:13:05.840 you're amazing, you're great, you're brilliant

02:13:08.320 and you can do anything

02:13:09.280 is necessarily the right messaging.

02:13:11.860 I confess, I do do a fair amount of some of that

02:13:15.320 with my kids, you know?

02:13:16.300 Like I'm not like my mom.

02:13:17.340 I don't tell them they're not special.

02:13:19.640 I can't do it, Maureen.

02:13:21.420 Well, I do it to my godchildren, but I feel like I get to do that as their godmother because

02:13:26.220 I don't have the day-to-day grinding it out of making sure those kids don't. 1.00

02:13:31.820 Jackie's whole thing was like, don't be an asshole. 1.00

02:13:35.540 Her bar was like, just don't be a prick. 1.00

02:13:38.820 All these cousins are killing people and maiming people. 1.00

02:13:41.480 Just be decent.

02:13:42.400 You know, but he had all this, it's what Polly calls the Nazi interrogation booth of mega celebrity.

02:13:51.020 Oh.

02:13:51.540 Isn't that a phrase?

02:13:52.400 How does that work?

02:13:53.340 What do you mean?

02:13:54.020 Like her thing is like, he from a very young age, JFK Jr. was placed in what the culture was like this Nazi interrogation booth where you are going to answer to us and you are going to become who we see you to be.

02:14:08.700 you know and like we saw it in the 80 at the 88 democratic convention when he gave that keynote

02:14:13.400 speech yeah he delivered a fine speech it was not it wasn't barack obama coming out of nowhere

02:14:18.680 you know speaking like in tongues it wasn't that but but the media went aflame and they were like

02:14:24.500 he's our next president oh they were like this is the reincarnation you know it's on like we're

02:14:28.400 gonna get the the fairy tale ending to the story that we wanted camelot's back we can pick up where

02:14:33.960 we left off and it's like we never had to suffer any of that pain this guy's gonna make it come

02:14:38.160 true and we can revel in the new Camelot without having to think about how the first one never

02:14:43.100 really existed. Exactly. Read, ask not, if you don't believe me and, um, and didn't, and didn't

02:14:48.620 end well. And, and, and was, it just wasn't Camelot. That was a lie that, that Jackie put

02:14:52.600 out there intentionally to re to paint over his narrative in a way that she thought would be

02:14:58.000 beneficial to him and their family. All right, we got to go. But once again, my friend, wonderful

02:15:02.140 to see you great discussion and everybody become a troublemaker subscribe to the nerve you'll love

02:15:08.920 every minute I'm looking forward to that interview tomorrow I will be listening to you

02:15:12.100 thank you Megan thank you for all of your support of what we're doing over at the nerve oh Karis I

02:15:19.360 love it I love you I love you too thanks for being here thanks to all of you for listening

02:15:23.940 have a great great weekend and we will see you again on Monday Emily Jashinski is coming out

02:15:29.840 on Monday, and we have something very fun and special to show you with Emily Jashinsky. I'm

02:15:35.720 not going to tell you what it is, but we spent a lot of time with her behind the scenes, and

02:15:40.080 let's just say there's a big reveal. Okay, that's it. Have a great weekend, and we'll see you then.

02:15:45.980 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 03, 2026

Tiger Woods DUI Crash Video, and Truth About ＂Love Story,＂ with Maureen Callahan, Plus American Jet Shot Down in Iran ｜ Ep. 1288

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