The Megyn Kelly Show - Trans Ideology Harming Women, and Dangers of ＂Affirming＂ Care, with Kellie-Jay Keen ＂Posie Parker,＂ Cat Cattinson, and More ｜ Ep. 529

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00:00:02.860 Someone is trying to frame us.

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00:00:30.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.080 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.840 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:47.360 It's been a great 24 hours in the Kelly Brunt household.

00:00:50.360 I gotta tell you, I began the day completely joyful

00:00:52.740 as I remain to this moment.

00:00:55.320 You know, the people who say like they don't want kids

00:00:59.060 because they just want their free life.

00:01:00.400 That's fine.

00:01:00.880 You can do that.

00:01:01.900 But my God, you don't know what you're missing.

00:01:04.280 You can just have the highest highs when it comes to children.

00:01:07.220 And I've had them in my house the past day or so.

00:01:10.240 Our oldest son came home from school and won the middle school spelling bee.

00:01:14.340 All of his friends cheered for him.

00:01:17.140 Even his last competitors cheered and they all got along and they supported one another.

00:01:22.700 It was just so uplifting.

00:01:24.520 You know, there's just those little moments where you're like, that's so cool.

00:01:26.880 It's so great that today's my daughter's 12th birthday.

00:01:30.160 She woke up to a bunch of balloons that we put in her room overnight. 0.51

00:01:33.800 And when she got to school, her friends were outside waiting for her and gave her a big hug.

00:01:38.860 She had a thousand watt smile when she got out of the car and went over to them this morning.

00:01:43.740 It was just so uplifting to see.

00:01:46.600 And then my little guy was in the was in the lower school talent show where I went this morning.

00:01:51.200 And these boys, my gosh, the boldness.

00:01:54.380 One kid got up there like third or fourth grade and he just danced for a whole song.

00:01:59.180 And he was amazing.

00:02:01.780 Other kids like this one kid played piano.

00:02:03.860 It was like magic coming out of his fingers.

00:02:05.480 It was I was almost in tears just at their courage, the fun, the support with the boys for one another.

00:02:12.620 Of course, they said the pledge because we have chosen the right school for our family.

00:02:17.720 Little Thatcher did a basketball trick shot thing. 1.00

00:02:21.640 It was just can I tell you, they're not they're not massive events.

00:02:24.980 It's just the small moments.

00:02:26.600 Right.

00:02:26.800 Those are the ones like that can bring the biggest joy.

00:02:29.580 So I come to you today in a great mood and just happy to be alive and happy to be able to talk to you about the small things and the big things.

00:02:39.760 And the fact that I have two boys and a girl is relevant to today's discussion.

00:02:46.120 They are one of the reasons why on the issue we're going to be going after today.

00:02:50.540 I confess to you, I am becoming more of an activist than just a straight commentator and for good reason, for really good reason.

00:03:00.900 I mean, our entire culture is under threat right now.

00:03:03.440 The very definition of womanhood is under attack and womanhood matters. 0.95

00:03:09.880 The word woman matters. 0.96

00:03:11.900 The fact that we have a Supreme Court justice who can't define it matters.

00:03:16.140 And there are few people on the globe today who saw that earlier than or who have done more to maintain that norm than our guest.

00:03:27.620 All right.

00:03:27.820 Now, she is here by popular demand.

00:03:30.480 She is a British woman who has put it all on the line to defend women's rights.

00:03:34.800 And my God, have they come for her, her family, her reputation at times, even her own life has been at risk.

00:03:41.900 Her name is Kelly J. Keene.

00:03:45.020 She sometimes goes by the moniker Posey Parker, which can be confusing because there's a very famous actor named Parker Posey.

00:03:51.840 She was in some of the Christopher Guest movies.

00:03:53.880 No relation.

00:03:54.900 This is Posey Parker.

00:03:56.340 But her real name is Kelly J. Keene.

00:03:58.440 And that's what we're going to call her.

00:03:59.880 A few years ago, Kelly J. started traveling internationally with her message, including right here to the USA on a tour called Let Women Speak.

00:04:08.040 It's a platform to allow regular women, real women, also known as women, often in very liberal cities, to talk about how they feel women's rights are being trampled on by trans activists who are the fiercest, most rabid activists of them all.

00:04:27.160 Kelly J. recently made international headlines when an event she was holding in New Zealand had to be shut down after some 5,000 of these activists showed up.

00:04:39.060 And to say they treated her with scorn, disrespect and threatening behavior isn't the understatement of the year.

00:04:46.500 The scenes from the event are disturbing.

00:04:48.180 She had to be escorted out by security, who had abandoned her for much of this event, after being swarmed by the angry mob.

00:04:54.880 At one point, she was doused in tomato soup and water.

00:04:58.940 She was actually in fear for her life for good reason.

00:05:02.100 Watch and listen to some sounds and sights of this mob and what she was up against.

00:05:18.180 So, for the listening audience, the mob is dozens deep.

00:05:32.000 I mean, you can barely see Kelly J. in there.

00:05:34.040 And then on this second video, she's being escorted out.

00:05:37.540 You can see she's wet from having been doused with something.

00:05:42.680 She looks concerned.

00:05:43.900 This is an incredibly brave woman, and even she looks scared.

00:05:48.360 And they threw tomato soup on her and on and on it goes. 0.80

00:05:51.920 No one has been arrested because they don't give a damn.

00:05:56.000 These even entire countries are so scared of what Kelly J. is saying.

00:06:01.240 They just rather have her be assaulted and and not say anything about it. 1.00

00:06:05.660 Kelly J. Keene is the founder of Standing for Women, and she joins me now.

00:06:09.920 Kelly J., what a pleasure.

00:06:11.080 I'm so glad to meet you.

00:06:12.080 Thank you for being here.

00:06:13.900 Oh, likewise.

00:06:14.920 Thank you so much.

00:06:16.760 I'm so sorry for what happened to you.

00:06:18.820 I understand when you go to these events, you've got to know something's coming.

00:06:21.620 You know, there's going to be some sort of a protest.

00:06:23.080 I think what you didn't expect was absolutely no police presence, no intervention on your behalf.

00:06:28.780 Am I right?

00:06:30.900 Yeah, 100 percent.

00:06:31.760 I mean, I did go through the mob to get to the middle where I where I assumed the police were in a sort of safe, cordoned off area so women could gather and speak.

00:06:42.680 And I was really quite shocked when I got in the middle that there was not a single officer visible at all.

00:06:49.180 These people attacking you are the same ones telling us, be compassionate, be compassionate, you know, find your kindness.

00:06:58.740 What's wrong with you if you don't agree with their message?

00:07:01.560 I mean, this is one of the reasons why they're so easy to reject, is it not?

00:07:07.360 Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:08.400 I mean, it feels like sometimes you're being metaphorically beaten to death with a be kind sign and we are peaceful and loving as they sort of step on your face. 0.75

00:07:18.900 So it's, yeah, it's it's the ultimate in hypocrisy and just gaslighting.

00:07:27.300 So I was interested to read that you and correct me if I'm wrong, started speaking out publicly about this as early as 2018 or 2019.

00:07:36.680 And in this in the evolution of this story, that's early.

00:07:41.240 Yeah, well, I knew about this in 2015.

00:07:43.600 I started speaking out in 2016, but seriously, with a message of a woman is an adult human female in 2018.

00:07:54.260 But there were, you know, there were women writing books about this in the 1970s.

00:07:58.780 Janice Raymond wrote a book called The Transsexual Empire that talked about the danger that this particular ideology posed to women.

00:08:06.980 So I'm quite late.

00:08:08.200 But, yeah, this new incarnation of trans activism and the attack on women's rights.

00:08:13.920 Yeah, I've been speaking about this seriously since 2018.

00:08:17.200 I'm so late.

00:08:18.200 I was on the other side for much of my professional career.

00:08:21.920 I explained this to the audience the other day.

00:08:23.240 I had a trans person in my family.

00:08:24.900 It was an absolute nuclear bomb that went off somebody by marriage.

00:08:28.760 And I don't get into exactly who it was because that person has children.

00:08:31.860 It's not my secret to reveal.

00:08:33.460 But the point is, it was absolutely devastating for that portion of my family.

00:08:39.800 And I felt bad for the person because this was back in, like, I mean, right after the turn of the century, you know, the early 2000s.

00:08:47.080 And nobody was really coming out as trans or having surgeries.

00:08:50.640 So the bullying was pretty enormous.

00:08:52.520 And I felt bad.

00:08:53.520 It was still a small collection of people who were doing it.

00:08:56.180 And I said, you know, just leave them alone.

00:08:57.300 Let them live.

00:08:57.800 And it was still, in my view, limited to just the generally, like, genuinely gender dysphoric people.

00:09:05.880 You know, the few people, the very few people who are actually born with this confusion as opposed to what's happening right now.

00:09:11.320 But I am very, I see it very differently now.

00:09:15.340 So how did you have the clarity that early on to see the dangers of what's happening here?

00:09:20.220 Well, I think I came across some leftist groups.

00:09:25.880 So I used to be on the left.

00:09:27.040 And I was on an online forum that was supposed to be just for women. 0.91

00:09:30.420 And actually, it was late, supposed late transitioning males that started coming in this group, supposedly for women in 2015.

00:09:38.440 And they were just acting like entitled men.

00:09:41.240 And so it was very difficult to leap into this notion that they actually were women.

00:09:46.920 And what was really interesting is how much women fawn over those men. 0.88

00:09:52.140 So those men will do things like do soft-focused pictures.

00:09:57.100 When all women were talking about politics, they would put soft-focused portraits of themselves. 1.00

00:10:02.720 And then nobody was allowed to at all say that they were men.

00:10:09.860 We had to all say that they were gorgeous and beautiful.

00:10:12.680 And this just felt so uncomfortable.

00:10:15.000 It was such a big lie that I started speaking up.

00:10:18.580 And as soon as I did, I was just shouted at.

00:10:23.200 It was horrendous.

00:10:25.000 And so I just knew then I'm not allowed to talk about it.

00:10:28.520 Therefore, I want to talk about it.

00:10:29.800 And I want to understand why I'm being silenced on this issue.

00:10:33.780 Were you just, I mean, are you just a spicy Brit?

00:10:36.000 You know, are you just somebody who's like, the more you tell me I can't, the more I will?

00:10:39.040 Well, probably.

00:10:43.180 I think, look, I was a stay-at-home mother.

00:10:45.740 I was really, really happy with staying home with my four kids.

00:10:50.340 And I'm happily married.

00:10:52.140 And nothing had really got my goat, if you like, as much as this.

00:10:55.680 And then this was like, you know, I've got a, I'm a really confident woman.

00:10:59.800 I'm very outspoken.

00:11:01.240 I'm really sort of, you know, out there.

00:11:03.320 And I will, I will speak my mind, but I've got a daughter who's an introvert. 0.99

00:11:06.940 She won't be telling a man in her space to get out.

00:11:09.900 And so I just thought, well, I need to step up.

00:11:13.000 And if I'm not going to do it, then who is going to do it?

00:11:15.940 And I guess a few years later, we, we realized that it had to be me.

00:11:22.340 It's spun out of control.

00:11:24.640 How did we get from the point I referenced from 2002, right around there, where it was

00:11:32.060 still very rare and very much the subject of scorn to come out as trans person to where

00:11:39.260 we are now, where if, even if you say biological sex is real, you could be labeled a bigot and

00:11:45.240 lose a job.

00:11:48.000 Well, I think we've got here through so many, there's so many threads to this.

00:11:52.220 There's number one, the amount of money the medical industry make from lifelong patients

00:11:58.500 when they transition them as children.

00:12:01.000 You've got I Am Jazz that's sold as entertainment, which is just watching the slow decline of

00:12:06.360 a very confused man, used to be boy, now man, just watch his life slip away in front of him.

00:12:14.760 I think that's, that's not helped culture.

00:12:17.300 You had Caitlyn Jenner that came out and was celebrated within six months.

00:12:21.060 He was woman of the year, and he'd only been one for six months. 0.51

00:12:24.900 And I use that loosely because I don't call any men women.

00:12:29.540 And it's just been this consistent, be kind throughout our schools.

00:12:35.880 Media has been horrendous.

00:12:37.740 Your media is so sewn up, a lot of your mainstream media, that people aren't even allowed to raise

00:12:44.460 questions. So I think it's, it's all of these threads, um, that are, that are leading to this.

00:12:51.340 And, um, and now here we are.

00:12:55.060 When I saw the mob attacking you, when I saw the mob here in the States attacking Riley Gaines

00:13:00.360 a week ago today, I think it was, uh, out at San Francisco State University, I thought to myself,

00:13:05.640 who are these people?

00:13:07.140 How are there thousands attacking you?

00:13:09.420 How are there hundreds on this campus attacking her? 0.99

00:13:12.060 This is a disorder.

00:13:13.900 It was recognized as a psychiatric disorder up until about yesterday by the American Psychiatric

00:13:18.360 Society, um, under pressure from these activists, they now just call it gender dysphoria, but it

00:13:23.660 was recognized as a psychiatric disorder, gender dysphoric disorder.

00:13:27.200 Um, how, how have they multiplied it in so many numbers when we know net net, it's still

00:13:34.780 a relatively small percentage of the population.

00:13:39.360 Well, to be brutal, uh, when it comes to boys, I think it's online pornography.

00:13:43.880 I think that is totally corrupting, um, most things that, that our young men are doing.

00:13:49.220 And I think, um, online pornography, when I've talked to mothers of teenage boys who start

00:13:53.580 identifying as girls, that is the route for a lot of boys.

00:13:57.600 Um, and for girls, we know that social contagion actually exists. 0.66

00:14:01.560 We watch girls, groups of girls starve or cut themselves.

00:14:05.820 Um, and this is just the latest in a long line of, uh, self-loathing of females. 1.00

00:14:11.260 And, you know, even girls that don't call themselves trans, they might call themselves non-binary 0.96

00:14:15.720 or gender non-conforming, having their breasts sliced off. 0.95

00:14:18.820 And your country, uh, as opposed to mine, it will do that. 1.00

00:14:23.020 It will slice the breasts off of teenage girls. 1.00

00:14:25.840 It's, it's just barbarism. 1.00

00:14:27.760 It's so just evil.

00:14:30.940 In, in, in the UK, are they not doing, um, surgeries on minors or cross-gender procedures?

00:14:37.400 No, we, I don't think we ever have, but we certainly, we don't even give puberty blockers,

00:14:42.440 uh, anymore, uh, to under 16s.

00:14:45.220 So we really, we're very lucky, you know, there's a lot of criticism for the National

00:14:49.740 Health Service.

00:14:51.120 Um, but it's, it's got parameters on the basis of how much money it can spend.

00:14:56.840 Um, and you're not restricted by that.

00:14:58.980 So, yeah, I mean, fancy cutting off.

00:15:02.080 There's hospitals.

00:15:03.020 I, I spoke to a nurse and they were doing about six surgeries a day on teenage girls,

00:15:07.780 just one hospital in your country.

00:15:10.220 Well, there was news, uh, out of Washington state just this morning that yesterday, the

00:15:15.680 house, the state house, again, this is the state legislature, uh, passed a bill that would

00:15:21.300 not, that would make it okay for homeless shelters to not notify the parents.

00:15:27.740 If a teenager shows up there who says they're trans, who says they're fleeing the safety and

00:15:34.240 security of their home with their parents, because their parents are not affirming them.

00:15:37.240 So this, the homeless shelters under this bill could keep the teen, uh, continue, continue

00:15:42.320 the quote affirming care and not tell the parents that's where we are.

00:15:47.040 It's just so, I, it's, I think if you tell someone that doesn't know anything about this

00:15:52.200 issue that that is happening in the United States of America, I think they think you were

00:15:57.120 insane because that's such a long way off of child safeguarding.

00:16:01.940 And what is the right and proper thing to do, uh, with regards to kids?

00:16:06.420 I mean, just changing pronouns at school, I think it's bad enough, but a child that's 1.00

00:16:10.640 clearly so distressed that they've run away from home is now offered a safe sanctuary in

00:16:16.760 a place where nobody loves them.

00:16:19.340 Nobody cares what happens to them, uh, but they can totally, uh, lie to parents or not tell

00:16:25.000 parents, uh, that they've been found.

00:16:27.140 I think it's like, what on earth is going on where we have arrived at a point where that

00:16:33.500 would be even, uh, suggested, let alone actually happening.

00:16:39.480 Right.

00:16:39.560 Approved by a significant majority in the, in the house in Washington state.

00:16:43.200 So two other news items.

00:16:44.860 One is in the state of California today.

00:16:47.600 There's news that, um, a woman who is suing a school district for transitioning her child,

00:16:52.880 who is a girl without the mother's knowledge or approval or involvement of any kind.

00:16:58.300 So she's suing good for her. 1.00

00:17:00.300 And she spoke at the school board meeting saying, how dare you?

00:17:03.140 How could you do this without my approval?

00:17:05.720 Um, and change her pronouns. 1.00

00:17:07.700 And by the way, the girl was just distressed because there'd been a death in the family.

00:17:10.960 That's what, that's what it was about.

00:17:12.240 And, and went to a guidance counselor and said, I, you know, maybe I'm a boy.

00:17:15.280 I don't know what's wrong with me.

00:17:16.440 And affirmed within moments, you are a boy.

00:17:19.860 And then the school worked with this girl without the 11 year old.

00:17:22.880 Without the parents notice, uh, notification or involvement to change her sex, quote unquote, 0.89

00:17:27.860 right?

00:17:28.080 Change her gender. 0.98

00:17:28.940 So now the mother suing and spoke out at the school board meeting saying, how dare you?

00:17:33.100 But they voted to keep the policy because they had a trans activist named squeaky St.

00:17:40.380 Francis at Chino Unified is a public school who said the following, look at this person.

00:17:45.580 I will speak loud for those who cannot speak.

00:17:48.560 I am a proud, he, she, they, them, whatever.

00:17:55.500 Every child needs to control when they out themselves.

00:18:01.760 If you take away this ability, this control from these children to out themselves, you are

00:18:10.700 forcefully putting them into a possibly violent household.

00:18:17.640 All right.

00:18:18.220 For the listening audience, what we have there is this enormous man who, you know, is clearly

00:18:23.540 obese, um, in a dress with a beard, with very long hair.

00:18:28.220 Um, that, that person convinced them to keep the policy as is, keep the parents out.

00:18:34.160 The policy remains a firm without the parents' knowledge.

00:18:38.080 I mean, come on, Megan, if you or I are looking for advice about how to raise our kids, um, we're

00:18:44.480 looking at that man also.

00:18:45.480 I mean, it's just, it's, I don't understand what people are seeing.

00:18:51.280 I, I just, I sometimes look at the propaganda in both our countries and I just have no idea 0.99

00:18:58.780 how so many people are so stupid that they can be convinced by such blatant, um, erosion 1.00

00:19:07.500 of child safeguarding. 1.00

00:19:08.920 Because it doesn't really matter whether you agree with this ideology or not.

00:19:12.180 Um, I don't, but it doesn't really matter if you do or not.

00:19:15.280 We've had child safeguarding that should be rigid, really un, unwavering, uh, in order

00:19:22.580 to protect children.

00:19:23.580 That's the whole point of it.

00:19:24.940 And we're just throwing it all away.

00:19:27.400 So that was San Bernardino, California.

00:19:30.200 Um, and the thing about the children is the most important thing.

00:19:34.320 I mean, it's important at every level, but to maintain the fact that there is such a thing

00:19:37.900 as a woman and it's not changeable.

00:19:39.800 But when you start to deal with kids, we're in a different territory.

00:19:43.440 And so that leads me to my last news item before we get to a broader discussion, which

00:19:46.420 I'm looking forward to with you.

00:19:48.460 Um, there's, do you know, have you heard about this?

00:19:51.020 The show that it's a YouTube show called Mr. Beast.

00:19:54.480 This guy, Mr. Beast.

00:19:55.820 My son watches it.

00:19:57.580 Yes.

00:19:57.900 So most kids watch it.

00:19:59.580 The guy's got 144 million followers.

00:20:03.060 Mr. Beast is a guy named Jimmy Donaldson.

00:20:04.980 Who's a genius.

00:20:06.160 He's only 24 years old.

00:20:07.440 I saw him speak recently.

00:20:09.160 He was utterly charming.

00:20:10.440 He's obviously brilliant.

00:20:12.180 He puts out fun, mostly pretty universally positive content, you know, giving away money,

00:20:18.640 helping cure blind people, fun contests that result in helping the weak or the poor.

00:20:23.340 Um, and people love it and it's gone international.

00:20:26.260 That's why he has 144 million followers.

00:20:28.400 But now one of the main characters on the show, like one of his best buddies has gone

00:20:35.320 trance.

00:20:36.400 Uh, his name is Chris Tyson and Chris Tyson, who was the manliest character on the Mr.

00:20:45.660 Beast offerings on YouTube.

00:20:47.360 He was a mountain man.

00:20:48.840 If they went camping, he was the one who would put up the tent.

00:20:51.260 And this is a picture for the, the, the people who are watching it on YouTube, the before

00:20:55.260 and after this is Chris on the right after two months of what he says is hormone replacement

00:20:58.800 therapy.

00:20:59.860 Um, I, on old people like me, that's an appropriate remedy for menopausal women who want to get 0.99

00:21:06.460 their fire back on a man. 0.53

00:21:08.200 It transforms you into something that looks very odd, but closer to female. 0.96

00:21:13.360 Um, and so here he is now, he was married with, he has a two-year-old son.

00:21:19.220 He's a, that's over.

00:21:20.620 The wife's now divorcing him.

00:21:22.720 He's online defending his choices saying my son is awesome, has absolutely no problem with

00:21:27.540 this.

00:21:27.720 My two-year-old's totally on board and Mr.

00:21:30.440 Beast continues to feature him during the midst of this transition.

00:21:35.140 Like it's an, like it's nothing.

00:21:36.780 And there was a great, great piece.

00:21:38.920 Uh, help me out.

00:21:39.780 Debbie was in the federalist.

00:21:40.860 Where did we see this piece?

00:21:42.060 Yeah.

00:21:42.220 The Federalist.

00:21:43.560 Um, and, and she writes, Mr. Beast is introducing millions of children to transgenderism without 0.88

00:21:49.540 parental consent.

00:21:51.200 Talking about how bit by bit you're seeing this guy transition that millions, my kids

00:21:55.260 watch this to see him give money away or, you know, see him do silly things like eat

00:21:59.240 burgers on, you know, all hours and then reward people with dough for watching him.

00:22:04.760 Not to see this guy slowly, but surely purporting to change into a woman with his long, long 0.99

00:22:11.320 nails. 0.99

00:22:12.320 And this is what the writer on the federalist says.

00:22:14.600 Jimmy's complicit.

00:22:15.580 Mr. Beast is complicit in projecting this adult content into millions of homes, quietly

00:22:20.440 slipping this into his programming.

00:22:21.980 And further, both Jimmy and this other guy have made their support public for Chris Tyson.

00:22:29.300 Um, he is grooming an unsuspecting generation of children into uncritically accepting transgender 1.00

00:22:34.500 and trans activism at a vulnerable age.

00:22:37.240 And worse, it's unmonitored access that Jimmy, Mr. Beast has to millions of kids across the

00:22:42.780 globe.

00:22:43.060 Most parents, like me, didn't even know this was a thing until about two minutes ago.

00:22:49.400 So what do you make of it?

00:22:52.060 Well, my kids are a little bit older.

00:22:54.120 So my youngest is 14.

00:22:55.500 And what he seems to think is that, uh, Mr. Beast looks entirely uncomfortable, uh, with

00:23:03.460 the whole situation, but is fearful from the, the vitriol, um, and the cancelling that he

00:23:09.840 might receive if he actually takes any stand whatsoever.

00:23:13.380 Now, my son, uh, all my kids are well aware of what a woman is.

00:23:19.000 And so maybe they're not so persuaded and, uh, maybe other kids are going to watch this

00:23:25.380 man, um, and see this sort of transition in real time.

00:23:30.160 Uh, and I probably agree from a safeguarding, from a parent point of view, it is not at all

00:23:35.480 appropriate to be parading what I would consider a man's fetish in front of an audience of kids.

00:23:42.120 It's just not appropriate.

00:23:43.380 There it is.

00:23:44.740 Okay.

00:23:45.060 Let's talk about that.

00:23:46.680 You've been making this point and this is so illuminating to me because we learned this

00:23:51.800 with Leah Thomas and you went to watch Leah Thomas swim at one of these NCAA tournaments.

00:24:00.440 Good for you because this is, you've made this your business and it's been very illuminating.

00:24:04.520 Leah Thomas, we now know, thanks to the daily wires reporting has auto-gynophilia where you

00:24:09.560 get off, you're turned on as a man by dressing as a woman. 1.00

00:24:13.100 It arouses you. 0.99

00:24:15.260 That's not trans. 1.00

00:24:17.060 That's not, you know, from two, I knew I was born in the wrong body. 0.99

00:24:19.900 That's like a sexual fetish. 0.99

00:24:21.320 It's a kink. 0.98

00:24:22.400 And Leah Thomas should have been nowhere near those female swimmers getting off while in 1.00

00:24:27.560 his women's bathing suit, crushing them in the pool lane. 0.70

00:24:30.860 But it seems like a fair percentage of these so-called trans people are actually working 0.99

00:24:37.940 out their sexual kink on us. 0.97

00:24:41.420 I mean, can you speak to that? 0.98

00:24:42.660 Yeah, 100%.

00:24:44.960 I think most men, teenage boys is a totally different thing.

00:24:49.080 And even some of those teenage boys will have auto-gynophilia.

00:24:53.000 But yeah, these men are aroused by themselves as women.

00:24:57.080 We call women that experience this with their husbands, we call them trans widows because 1.00

00:25:01.460 they really do.

00:25:03.180 They are victims of the most appalling, coercive control within that relationship.

00:25:08.600 It's really, really abusive.

00:25:10.600 And so these women know and have been speaking about this for a long time.

00:25:13.780 But what often happens with trans widows is they're called stunning and brave and how

00:25:18.360 wonderful they are to accept their husbands.

00:25:20.580 And they find it really, really difficult to speak about the reality of living with these

00:25:24.900 men.

00:25:25.940 But yes, of course, a man in his 50s who remains heterosexual but claims that all of a sudden

00:25:34.060 he's got gender dysphoria.

00:25:36.240 No, I'm not buying any of it. 0.91

00:25:37.640 And I think we also know that men with a fetish of paedophilia, they will do something like

00:25:46.380 join a church so they've got access to children and they will do that for their entire lives.

00:25:52.200 So I think we have to be really mindful to understand if somebody is controlled and compelled

00:25:57.640 by fetish, there's pretty much nothing that they won't do to be able to exercise that fetish.

00:26:05.140 And autogynephilia will include the desire to make you and I uncomfortable in female-only

00:26:11.320 spaces.

00:26:11.920 They will get off and enjoy themselves knowing that we find it uncomfortable, awkward, that

00:26:18.500 our speech is compelled.

00:26:20.060 All the things that are happening to us as women in our society is part of, I believe,

00:26:25.820 is part of this sexual fetish.

00:26:27.120 This is making my blood boil and sounds so exactly right. 0.88

00:26:30.360 And by the way, back to the guy on Mr. Beast, Chris Tyson, it was outed last night on the

00:26:36.700 internet that this guy's tweets, even prior to this becoming public, are deeply disturbing.

00:26:43.300 You may or may not be surprised to learn a fair amount of misogyny on there, going after women

00:26:48.380 repeatedly, these privileged, entitled C-words, you know, he's got an issue with the sex he

00:26:54.540 now claims he is, he shares.

00:26:57.600 He appears to have expressed a, quote, extreme affinity for deeply problematic anime.

00:27:06.440 And I'll get the actual, I want to figure out where we got this, but it was all over the

00:27:12.020 internet yesterday, finding his old tweets.

00:27:14.100 He sent out a tweet in 2016 that reads, now he's deleted it last night after it went

00:27:18.140 more public, nothing gets my knob cranking like some lowly, L-O-L-I. 1.00

00:27:24.360 Lowly is apparently female, childlike characters in anime. 0.96

00:27:28.660 It's become synonymous with pedophilic depiction of sexualized young girls or babies in anime.

00:27:37.560 So to your point, there's something wrong with this guy.

00:27:42.080 This is extremely creepy.

00:27:44.480 And he put it out there publicly.

00:27:47.040 And now we're seeing him suddenly say, oh, I'm trans, accept me, and let me beam right

00:27:53.240 into your child's bedroom on his YouTube as he's just trying to watch Mr. Beast's antics.

00:28:01.000 Yeah, well, Lowly is Lolita after the book about pedophilia, for want of a better word.

00:28:08.300 So it's massive, like hentai and anime, that whole thing is, it just really blurs childlike

00:28:19.940 images and sexualized behavior.

00:28:23.120 It really is, the whole thing, I think, with anime is dangerously close.

00:28:28.420 But you've got other places where kids get groomed online.

00:28:34.300 It might be Bronies, which is adult men who like My Little Pony, the kid's toy.

00:28:41.160 There's a lot of crossover.

00:28:42.660 Furries is another thing.

00:28:45.380 You know, take a deep dive into this world and you don't come up feeling very great about humanity,

00:28:52.440 I can promise you.

00:28:53.380 And right, I mean, this is not like, as a rule, just a bunch of very super well, mentally

00:29:00.360 well people who, you know, just were, quote, born in the wrong body.

00:29:04.700 That's how it's being sold.

00:29:06.060 If you want to be honest about it, the truth for many is a lot darker.

00:29:11.740 And we better start getting honest about that truth because that truth is showing up in our

00:29:16.860 locker rooms, in our swim meets, in our most beloved children's programming.

00:29:23.540 And parents need to be aware.

00:29:25.680 All right, so stand by because we're going to pick it up more.

00:29:28.800 I love to hear you talk about the pronouns and why you don't say them.

00:29:32.660 This is something I've been struggling with.

00:29:34.040 A lot of people do.

00:29:35.340 How we should be having our kids handle that issue is more and more they're being asked.

00:29:40.340 Our totally normal kids are being asked to say their pronouns.

00:29:43.360 We'll pick it up there right after this quick, quick break.

00:29:45.740 Don't go away.

00:29:46.860 Now streaming on Paramount+.

00:29:48.780 Someone is trying to frame us.

00:29:51.740 Until our names are cleared.

00:29:54.280 We're fugitives from Interpol.

00:29:56.060 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

00:29:59.520 Espionage.

00:30:00.120 You're still as good a shot as you used to be.

00:30:03.260 Better.

00:30:03.980 Is there love language.

00:30:05.440 We like to walk that fine line between techno thriller and romantic comedy.

00:30:10.740 We make up our own rules.

00:30:12.600 NCIS Tony and Ziva.

00:30:13.960 Now streaming on Paramount+.

00:30:16.860 Just two corrections from our earlier blog.

00:30:22.160 I want to tell you it was Chico Unified Schools in California out of Chico, California.

00:30:26.780 And the source for that Chris Tyson reporting on his tweets was Redux magazine.

00:30:31.640 So Kelly J, let's get into it.

00:30:32.840 Let's talk about.

00:30:33.780 Can we talk about the pronouns?

00:30:34.660 Because I know you don't say them.

00:30:35.900 And this has been an ongoing debate.

00:30:37.120 Matt Walsh doesn't believe in saying them.

00:30:39.100 You know, I don't think Ben Shapiro, my pal over at Daily Wire, says them.

00:30:42.140 I've been saying them.

00:30:43.540 I've been saying them.

00:30:44.400 And I've run into a brick wall when I've gotten to Dylan Mulvaney.

00:30:47.220 Because I see that Dylan Mulvaney is a faker.

00:30:50.140 Just like as clear as the day is long.

00:30:51.780 Dylan Mulvaney wants to be famous.

00:30:53.200 Dylan Mulvaney's out there.

00:30:54.840 Just completely patronizing us.

00:30:57.460 It's bastardizing us.

00:30:58.880 And I refuse.

00:30:59.620 I don't believe Dylan Mulvaney has any sort of disorder.

00:31:02.820 I believe Dylan wants to be a star.

00:31:04.320 So I've run into it now.

00:31:06.020 Why do you not say the pronouns that they choose?

00:31:09.260 So, okay.

00:31:10.640 So the pronouns are like a gateway drug, if you like, to accepting this ideology.

00:31:16.460 So you've got, there's a really good essay called Pronouns Are a Hypnose.

00:31:21.320 And what it talks about is the fact that once you say she, it's really difficult to police our boundaries successfully.

00:31:31.060 So if I'm out to dinner and there's somebody at the table and it's she all night, it's very difficult to say she can't use the women's toilets. 1.00

00:31:40.100 She can't run in the girls' athletics.

00:31:43.720 She can't swim in the girls' swim team.

00:31:46.940 And so I just think we, it's not a courtesy.

00:31:52.560 It's damaging for women. 1.00

00:31:54.740 Every time we allow these men to creep into our language, we erode a little bit of our own boundaries.

00:32:00.220 And so I just absolutely refuse to do it.

00:32:03.080 I don't care how much effort.

00:32:04.540 I don't care whether they've had surgery.

00:32:06.720 As far as I'm concerned, there is no man on this planet that deserves the pronoun she, her.

00:32:11.700 So what do you tell your kids, because now they're asked in various forums, what are your pronouns?

00:32:21.120 My children really have avoided it.

00:32:23.320 I've sort of told them it's not their hell to die on and it's social suicide.

00:32:27.700 So if they're really asked directly, they can say it.

00:32:31.080 But, you know, I've been doing this a long time.

00:32:34.780 So my children were primed before this ideology-infested schools.

00:32:40.840 So they haven't yet been asked their pronouns.

00:32:44.480 But, you know, it's, you can say your own pronouns if you like.

00:32:48.340 I just think you can say, look, that's not an ideology I go along with.

00:32:51.760 That's what my kids say.

00:32:53.540 I've told my kids, because we're in a, you know, woke hell in the Northeast United States.

00:32:58.740 I've told my kids, you can just simply respond.

00:33:01.080 I don't feel comfortable talking in those terms.

00:33:02.960 Yeah.

00:33:04.940 And, look, I think you can try and avoid those conversations completely as a teenager.

00:33:10.840 But I said to my children, you don't have to lie.

00:33:13.960 So if somebody says, do you think that person is a woman? 0.75

00:33:16.380 You don't have to say yes.

00:33:19.460 But you could say, I don't think it's appropriate to talk about it.

00:33:23.040 I think it causes too much division.

00:33:25.140 There's many ways to avoid the conversation.

00:33:26.800 But, look, I just think with the pronouns, it's almost okay what you want to do personally.

00:33:34.380 But if you're advocating for others, if you have a platform to speak, such as in the media,

00:33:41.220 and you're an incredibly strong and successful woman like you, then I think it would be great if you held the line. 0.85

00:33:50.980 Because so many women look up to you that I think I would really love to see you hold that line quite tight.

00:33:58.760 But I've really been wrestling with it lately.

00:34:01.480 I'll have a lot of my viewers and audience say, use the right pronoun, meaning the biological pronoun.

00:34:07.180 And I just never wanted to be disrespectful.

00:34:09.120 But it's gone beyond a matter of compassion or respect at this point.

00:34:14.240 You know, as I said at the top of the show, we're playing for much higher stakes now.

00:34:18.680 Womanhood itself is under threat.

00:34:21.200 Our spaces, our wellness, our safety, you know, from prisons to locker rooms and so on.

00:34:27.220 We had a debate on the show recently when it hit the news that somebody had gone into a YMCA.

00:34:32.760 A 17-year-old girl took to the microphones out at the San Diego YMCA saying,

00:34:36.800 I saw a man, a naked man, in the locker room.

00:34:40.500 And I don't think I should be subjected to that, nor should my six-year-old sister.

00:34:44.120 Then the person came out who was the man, who was a trans person. 0.92

00:34:48.320 And this guy was saying, I had the surgery, and there's no way she saw a penis. 0.89

00:34:54.840 Now, we don't know whether that's true or not. 0.58

00:34:56.660 But what if the person did have a surgery?

00:34:59.220 What if it's a biological man who had the surgery, now looks like they have female anatomy?

00:35:04.600 Should that person be allowed to use the female locker room? 1.00

00:35:08.300 No, because it goes back again to fetish. 0.95

00:35:10.680 And so there will be some men that actually do have their genitals inverted and removed, 0.97

00:35:18.880 and they will still do it for a fetish. 0.86

00:35:21.160 And look, it's not for women to make men feel more comfortable about themselves.

00:35:25.900 It's women's faces are for women to feel comfortable about ourselves, 0.90

00:35:29.840 and to feel that we have safety and dignity and privacy.

00:35:33.220 So I just think under no circumstances should women be expected to move over.

00:35:39.940 Because every time we do, every time we include men in our space,

00:35:43.260 we exclude so many women who then won't be able to go to that space. 1.00

00:35:47.400 There are more victims of sexual assault, more female victims of sexual assault in the United States of America 0.99

00:35:52.000 than there are men pretending to be women.

00:35:54.260 How do you know if it's the fetish thing, or if it's actual gender dysphoria,

00:36:01.660 which a very, very small percentage of the population does suffer from?

00:36:07.140 Well, I think the point is that you don't know.

00:36:09.600 I mean, I would say it's at least 90% of men who claim to be women do it for a sexual fetish.

00:36:17.120 But I could be completely wrong.

00:36:18.900 It could be 50-50.

00:36:19.740 It doesn't actually matter, because I still don't want them in our spaces.

00:36:24.260 You know, my husband's a really nice man, a really, really lovely man.

00:36:28.700 And I don't want him in female spaces either. 1.00

00:36:31.320 And he doesn't want to go in.

00:36:33.060 You know, decent men don't want to make women and girls feel uncomfortable by using our space.

00:36:38.960 There is not a man, I would, I say that there are not men who don't have predatory tendencies

00:36:45.580 who want to enter into female spaces, 1.00

00:36:48.100 knowing it would make some of those women in that space uncomfortable. 1.00

00:36:51.640 So I just, you know, it doesn't really matter what their motivation is.

00:36:56.140 They just have to stay out.

00:36:57.840 Yeah. 0.79

00:36:58.420 I knew somebody whose spouse said that they wanted to start dressing as a woman during sex.

00:37:06.920 And the person thought, well, you know, I guess if this gets him off, what, who does it harm?

00:37:14.220 Well, that person's now a full-blown transsexual, like had the surgery, the whole bit. 0.99

00:37:19.020 But it began, as you are saying, he got off on putting on women's clothing,

00:37:24.080 and that's what turned him on.

00:37:26.160 So, I mean, it is very problematic to allow these people into the very spots where we change our clothes,

00:37:33.300 we take our pants down to use the toilet, we send our little girls. 1.00

00:37:38.080 We're being asked to pretend it's not part of the dynamic.

00:37:43.140 Yeah.

00:37:43.300 I mean, many of the spokespeople in the United States, you've got a man called Alok, 0.81

00:37:48.800 who says that little girls, five-year-old girls, little girls are kinky. 1.00

00:37:54.060 You know, a lot of these men talk about rape fantasies, 1.00

00:37:56.720 how the ultimate in being a woman is to be submissive and be raped. 0.99

00:38:02.200 These are a lot of men that are now seen by the Biden administration, for example, 0.98

00:38:08.340 as people that should be spokeswomen. 0.95

00:38:10.740 It's ludicrous. 0.96

00:38:13.340 It's like, it's a little bit like the Catholic Church of old, 0.99

00:38:17.540 and I don't want to cast any aspersions amongst Catholics because I have very many good friends,

00:38:22.220 and I know the majority of Catholics are really decent human beings.

00:38:25.420 But there were some men that used the advantage of unfettered access to people,

00:38:29.840 to women and children, just by putting this robe on. 0.95

00:38:34.560 I don't see transgenderism as any different.

00:38:37.340 Once you say you're part of the LGBTQ plus community, which let's face it might be that you once fancied a man in a dress 0.98

00:38:45.940 and you're a man yourself, you don't even have to do anything to be queer. 0.55

00:38:50.320 You could just say you're queer. 0.99

00:38:52.460 Once you do that, you can pretty much do whatever you want.

00:38:56.760 Nobody's going to ask you any questions whatsoever about your motivations, your motives,

00:39:02.500 and whether you're fit to be wherever you want to be.

00:39:06.460 I heard you interview with our friend Peter Boghossian, and you had such a great line.

00:39:13.760 I had never heard somebody say it this way.

00:39:16.480 You said, I prefer not to be part of someone's sexual fetish.

00:39:20.520 Yes, exactly right.

00:39:22.300 I think that's true of all those women on the Leah Thomas swim team. 0.99

00:39:25.240 If they could have found the way of saying that, that's exactly, I prefer not to be part of someone's sexual fetish.

00:39:32.620 It's not that you won't get blowback for that, but that's really what's going on there.

00:39:37.420 I don't think men really understand it.

00:39:39.880 You and I were women of enough experience in the world to know what it's like to feel a man looking at you with a particular sort of gaze.

00:39:50.980 And I don't mean that it's all men everywhere you go, but we know what it feels like.

00:39:56.480 There's a difference between someone looking at you and someone looking at you in a really sexual, kind of uncomfortable way.

00:40:04.160 And I don't think many men understand it, but I think we do.

00:40:08.800 And so we know that we don't want that gaze for our daughters, for any women that we care about, for vulnerable women, or even for ourselves.

00:40:17.620 I don't want to be sort of looked at like that.

00:40:21.260 And so that's why I think it's often, women get it. 1.00

00:40:26.200 We know creepy men, and I consider most of those men that call themselves women, creepy men. 0.94

00:40:32.900 There used to be a time where you could get away from them.

00:40:36.160 Even when you go to prison, you could make sure you went to the women's prison and that they wouldn't be in there. 1.00

00:40:40.200 And now they're getting the creepiest of all men, men who have been convicted of sex crimes, moved into their prison.

00:40:45.140 One actual thing that's happening out in places like California, it's insane.

00:40:50.240 Let's talk about, let's back up on the definition of a woman. 0.99

00:40:52.800 I know you've answered this a million times, but for our audience who hasn't heard you, you know, since our Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson can't say it, can you?

00:41:00.220 What is a woman? 1.00

00:41:02.580 It's an adult human female.

00:41:05.560 And why is it important to define a woman that way?

00:41:09.100 Well, back in 2018, I was trying to work out what is the nucleus of this?

00:41:18.040 Like, what is right at the center of this erasure of women? 0.97

00:41:22.720 And I was like, well, it's the language.

00:41:24.960 We're being called cervix havers and menstruators and birthing persons.

00:41:29.140 In the United Kingdom, for example, any of our cancer literature about cervical cancer, we are referred to as cervix havers, not women.

00:41:37.100 Now, that's pretty appalling anyway.

00:41:40.060 But when you think about women who speak English as a second language, they don't know their cervix havers. 0.99

00:41:45.020 They know that they're women, though. 1.00

00:41:46.320 So it's also quite dangerous.

00:41:48.820 And I just think it's really important that if you can't talk about us, then you can't protect us.

00:41:57.800 If when you talk about women, we have no idea who we're talking about, then you have no chance of protecting our rights and our language and our spaces, because we have to then start talking in caveats, like a woman, you know, an adult human female.

00:42:11.880 And it just becomes quite preposterous.

00:42:15.240 And this isn't happening to men's language.

00:42:17.320 So testicular cancer in the UK, when they write about testicular cancer, they talk about men.

00:42:24.000 So it really is just happening to women. 1.00

00:42:26.520 And it couldn't be, you know, I just think that this latest incarnation of misogyny is kind of misogyny in stilettos.

00:42:35.960 It's just so bad.

00:42:38.260 Right.

00:42:38.720 It's actually it's it's misogyny on steroids or maybe on estrogen, as the case may be.

00:42:44.980 So, yeah, how would you refer to like a Caitlyn Jenner?

00:42:49.720 Would you call Caitlyn Jenner a trans woman, just a biological man?

00:42:53.260 How would you if you were trying to explain to somebody what happened with Bruce?

00:42:56.500 Now, Caitlyn Jenner, what would you say?

00:42:59.140 I would just say it's it's a man who calls himself a woman. 0.72

00:43:04.400 OK, so you don't use the term trans woman or trans man.

00:43:09.380 No, not at all.

00:43:11.220 How come?

00:43:11.940 No.

00:43:13.920 I just I'm not just not calling a man a subcategory of women because they're not.

00:43:18.620 They're just men and they behave like entitled men.

00:43:22.540 You know, I've I've been in a room with Caitlyn Jenner and I'm sure he's a very nice human being to a point.

00:43:29.660 But he uses women's spaces. 1.00

00:43:31.760 And so, no, he doesn't.

00:43:35.160 He's not a woman. 1.00

00:43:36.040 He's not a subcategory of woman.

00:43:37.460 And there is nothing about him that I feel is remotely womanly.

00:43:42.700 And so, no, I wouldn't use that word.

00:43:44.960 It's a very special word.

00:43:46.320 We're quite special human beings.

00:43:47.960 We give birth to babies.

00:43:49.880 I'm not sharing that with men.

00:43:52.600 Yes, fascinating.

00:43:53.320 I've I've I've been a lot softer on Caitlyn than I have been on somebody like a Dylan because he seemed to kind of get into our lane and be quiet about it.

00:44:00.520 I don't know, not too quiet in the beginning, but since and has been defending women's sports and so on.

00:44:05.760 It doesn't seem like somebody who's constantly desperate for attention and to take over all our spaces.

00:44:10.240 So to me, I kind of see Caitlyn differently.

00:44:13.600 But I see your point about the pronouns and the acceptance of anybody who's trying to do this as gateway drugs as, you know, once you open that door, it's a very slippery slope.

00:44:25.120 Yeah. And it's, you know, we don't we we sort of language isn't about offering kindness or courtesy.

00:44:32.820 Language is about accurate description.

00:44:34.800 So we all know what we're talking about.

00:44:36.640 And so I just I don't see it makes any sense to call a man any subcategory of women.

00:44:43.600 Do you ever have an encounter with a trans person who's not a hater of you, right, who's not trying to throw tomato juice all over you, where you go with the actual pronoun, the correct pronoun, and there's an awkwardness? 0.60

00:44:58.980 I mean, how does that go?

00:45:01.180 Well, you'll be surprised to know, Megan, I don't have a lot of friends who call themselves trans.

00:45:06.580 But look, the people I have met who are sort of around in that culture will be de-transitioners. 1.00

00:45:15.220 And then it's it's just heartbreaking.

00:45:19.340 It's so heartbreaking to watch somebody who kind of looks like a man, but not quite like a man and is is a man, but has identified as a woman for a short time or quite a long time.

00:45:32.820 And it's really damaged.

00:45:34.120 So that's when that's when pronouns are quite tricky, actually, because sometimes you'll be standing in front of somebody, particularly girls, because they get facial hair, who is definitely female, looks a little more male because of the facial hair, which I think is far more of a trick.

00:45:51.780 I think girls pass as men more easily than men ever pass as women. 0.81

00:45:57.140 So sometimes I will trip on pronouns in those situations.

00:46:01.280 But I still wouldn't do it.

00:46:04.220 I mean, we rarely use pronouns about somebody when you're in front of them anyway.

00:46:08.400 So it's it's a situation that doesn't come up often.

00:46:11.500 But I would I just really don't see these men as women.

00:46:15.960 And so my natural kind of language would be to use male language. 0.95

00:46:20.800 And so to the women out there or men who are feeling inspired by what you're saying and looking for the courage to join you or find the right language to articulate their positions as you do.

00:46:31.320 What's your message?

00:46:32.140 I think you just have to speak the truth.

00:46:35.580 And I think it's it's a fundamental human need not to go insane to speak the truth.

00:46:41.560 If you have to open your mouth and lie, then I think it does something to our psyche.

00:46:47.340 I think it's really damaging.

00:46:48.920 It's specifically like particularly for children.

00:46:51.080 I think it's horrendous to force children into this sort of compelled speech.

00:46:56.180 But I say to people, if you're in a work situation and it's essential for you to keep your job, to use this compelled speech, then you should say in your own head what you know to be true.

00:47:10.340 Just so you don't feel gaslit and you don't, you know, sell a little bit of your soul every time you open your mouth, because I can't I can't imagine what it would be like to be in sort of an office situation and have to use this nonsensical language and and know that you're sort of being compelled to do it.

00:47:31.980 It must be just soul destroying.

00:47:34.080 Yeah, it is.

00:47:34.980 And finding the voice to articulate your genuinely held beliefs is liberating.

00:47:39.520 Kelly J, please come back.

00:47:41.360 It's such a pleasure to meet you.

00:47:43.560 Thank you.

00:47:44.700 Oh, to be continued.

00:47:46.260 Wow.

00:47:47.060 So nice to meet her.

00:47:49.080 Haters.

00:47:49.700 I don't care.

00:47:50.660 She's an important voice in this whole debate, and I'll be listening a lot more to her.

00:47:57.300 Supporters of so-called gender affirming care often proclaim that this approach is the approach.

00:48:05.000 It can reduce emotional distress.

00:48:07.020 It can improve a sense of well-being.

00:48:08.480 It will reduce the risk of suicide in trans-identifying people.

00:48:13.360 But is any of that true?

00:48:15.140 A new documentary, Affirmation Generation, The Lies of Transgender Medicine, takes on these claims and turns them upside down with real stories from real people who have been failed by gender-affirming care.

00:48:28.900 Joining us now to discuss are executive producer, Joey Bright, detransitioner, Kat Cadenson, and therapist, Stephanie Nguyen, who are all featured in the documentary.

00:48:39.980 Thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:48:41.520 Great to have you here.

00:48:42.740 Thank you, Megan.

00:48:43.320 Great to be here.

00:48:43.900 So, Joey, let me start with you.

00:48:46.400 You are the EP of this documentary and somebody who was pulled into this world of affirming care yourself eventually.

00:48:57.220 What made you want to do this film?

00:49:00.040 Because I knew that if I were eight years old today and living in California and I was a very rambunctious tomboy, I also knew I was very attracted to other girls.

00:49:10.620 And if I were in elementary school today and said anything about feeling like a boy or I wanted somebody to call me Mike or whatever at school and they started doing it and I told my parents and they said, no, no way, I know that I could complain to the school.

00:49:28.740 And now in California, as of just a couple of weeks ago, there's a new bill that passed.

00:49:34.800 I could contact CPS or the school could contact CPS and I would end up in the foster care system.

00:49:41.980 Child Protective Services.

00:49:43.540 You had a very different experience because you're not, you know, you weren't born in 1996.

00:49:49.920 Right.

00:49:50.460 Where you went to a therapist.

00:49:52.640 Right.

00:49:53.180 So you went to a therapist who you credit with saving your life because things used to look very different.

00:49:57.900 Tell us what your therapist said to you.

00:50:00.680 Yeah, I was really hoping that I could somehow I knew that it was going to take some sort of a medical process of some way.

00:50:07.440 And I'd heard about testosterone and I deliberately found a lesbian therapist who I knew herself was gender nonconforming. 1.00

00:50:15.900 And I went to the first session and I told her that I knew that I was really a man and I needed her help.

00:50:21.440 And she looked at me and she had sort of a smirk on her face and she said, you're not a man.

00:50:28.260 You're never going to be a man. 0.97

00:50:30.160 You're a lovely butch woman. 1.00

00:50:32.180 And I want to help you to learn to love yourself.

00:50:34.920 I hope that I can help you on that journey.

00:50:36.440 I love that.

00:50:38.660 I love that. 0.62

00:50:39.660 You're a lovely butch woman. 1.00

00:50:40.820 I've been saying for so long, our tent is very big.

00:50:44.600 The women tent is very big.

00:50:47.380 You can have the long blonde hair with a pretty pink sweater or you can have the short hair with the black glasses. 0.98

00:50:53.800 It doesn't it doesn't make you a man if you look more butch. 0.96

00:50:58.400 Right. 0.93

00:50:58.640 Or if you happen to want to get it on with women. 0.89

00:51:01.340 Mm hmm.

00:51:02.060 Mm hmm.

00:51:02.420 And we were targeted.

00:51:05.400 What do you mean?

00:51:05.980 We were targeted with street grade testosterone by some kind of salesperson that I regretted later that I didn't ask him for a business card.

00:51:14.840 But instead, I told him to get the hell out of here when he approached a group of us outside of a pop up lesbian bar back in the 90s. 0.89

00:51:23.160 And I had a little he had a little blue plastic vial with pills.

00:51:28.460 And I after I told him to get the hell out of here and he he did, I yelled to him, you know, what's in there?

00:51:37.400 And he said, testosterone.

00:51:41.340 I got what you want.

00:51:42.660 I got what you need.

00:51:43.740 That's exactly what he said to us.

00:51:45.360 That's scary.

00:51:47.000 And as you point out, if you had been in today's medical care system, you could have you could have a disfigured forearm right now because they cut it up to make a fake phallus.

00:51:56.680 You know, they you could have been the victim of top surgery you didn't want or need.

00:52:00.320 You could have been stuffed full of hormones that you didn't want or need that are genuinely life changing and potentially damaging and could render you render you infertile.

00:52:10.580 So, I mean, that's I assume why you want to make the film.

00:52:14.880 Yes, that and many reasons.

00:52:17.520 I mean, when I was first being an advocate for women's rights and child safeguarding, the child safeguarding really pumped up because I had never thought that they were going to go after kids.

00:52:29.860 I thought they were just experimenting with lesbians, you know, that that was a hated, targeted area. 1.00

00:52:37.800 And along comes the Internet and a lot more time.

00:52:41.100 And then along comes all of this grooming.

00:52:43.960 And I just put all the all this stuff together and it just made me more and more to the point where in 2021 I helped to orchestrate over 13 protests against pediatric gender clinics.

00:52:56.440 And no big I contacted everybody to come and film us.

00:53:01.800 And it wasn't until the very last protests that we had at Los Angeles Children's Hospital in October of 2021 that Fox News showed up.

00:53:12.860 And I had been talking to the producer.

00:53:14.860 They shot a lot of footage, but they're the only ones in terms of mainstream media.

00:53:20.720 Good for them.

00:53:21.460 Honestly, it's moments like, of course, I work at Fox for 17 years, but it's moments like that.

00:53:25.500 I want people to remember as Fox is getting dragged in the news for the lawsuit and the Dominion.

00:53:30.960 And that'll all play out in a court of law the way it should, I'm sure.

00:53:33.520 But that's why Fox News is so important, because they will tell the stories like this one that the rest of the media will ignore for ideological reasons.

00:53:42.520 Before I bring in our other two guests, I want to show the audience a little clip from Affirmation Generation.

00:53:47.480 I want to tell them as well that it is available at AffirmationGenerationMovie.com.

00:53:53.460 AffirmationGenerationMovie.com.

00:53:55.800 Here's a bit of a clip on the comorbidities that detransitioners featured in the film suffer from. 0.91

00:54:03.760 I knew there was something more than just depression and anxiety and autism.

00:54:10.240 I felt like it was something else.

00:54:12.280 And initially, I thought that something else was filled by gender dysphoria.

00:54:16.580 I think that being sexually assaulted absolutely contributed to my gender dysphoria getting stronger and wanting to be a woman even less.

00:54:28.040 I was diagnosed with ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, traits of borderline personality disorder, traits of post-traumatic stress from childhood bullying.

00:54:39.560 I had suffered from an eating disorder.

00:54:41.700 I had had a suicide attempt.

00:54:43.340 From the time I was 11 or 12, I developed anorexia nervosa.

00:54:48.500 And then years later, it led me to develop body dysmorphia, which I falsely, wrongly attributed to being gender dysphoria.

00:54:59.760 And it's one thing, right, Kat?

00:55:02.960 You're featured in that montage saying that you had a sexual assault in your history, that you had an eating disorder.

00:55:09.560 It is one thing for you to go through those traumas and then get confused about what the source of your anxiety is.

00:55:15.780 You know, is it gender? 1.00

00:55:17.420 Is that going to make me feel better?

00:55:19.000 It is quite another for all the professionals around you to uniformly be pushing you to, quote, change your gender, transition your gender.

00:55:31.040 So tell us how your journey sort of evolved from your anxieties to, yes, you're in the wrong body.

00:55:37.580 Yeah, so I want to contrast my experience with Joey's a little bit because I was a person born closer to 1996, not in 1996, but, you know, definitely a different era in terms of how the medical field responds to gender dysphoria.

00:55:53.740 And I was even in the early wave of transitioners and detransitioners. 1.00

00:55:59.600 I started identifying as trans when I was 13 after finding an online website and forum for FTM people, which is, you know, in the trans community, that's female to male transgender people.

00:56:12.180 So women who take testosterone, get double mastectomies, et cetera. 0.98

00:56:15.700 And, you know, I also had I had trauma from being bullied and I had a lot of mental health conditions.

00:56:25.380 I'd started to develop an eating disorder and I started to attribute all of my other problems to, well, it's just because I'm born in the wrong body.

00:56:33.880 And it just it felt like an easier fix somehow within like actually confronting my issues.

00:56:39.040 I don't think I was capable of it at that point.

00:56:41.080 And the first gender therapist I saw was when I was 17 years old.

00:56:46.920 And, you know, rather than like Joey's therapist who tried to help her accept herself as she she was, my therapist affirmed me within the first two appointments and started calling me he him.

00:56:58.960 He told my parents during appointment three that he thought I should start testosterone at 17.

00:57:04.540 And, you know, thankfully, they they were not on board with that.

00:57:08.020 And, you know, I still had a lot of problems.

00:57:11.140 I wasn't very stable.

00:57:12.520 And so, you know, not having, you know, the trans community will say it's awful.

00:57:17.240 They didn't affirm me.

00:57:18.260 But, you know, if they had, I could be infertile right now.

00:57:21.260 I could have so many more health issues if I had started that young.

00:57:24.880 But I ended up starting later on when I was in my late 20s.

00:57:29.020 And at that point, I just called up Planned Parenthood to, you know, I thought there would be a process, which is what the trans community will also say often is like you have to go through therapy or you have to live for a certain amount of time as your preferred gender.

00:57:43.700 But I was prescribed testosterone after just 30 minutes, you know, despite bringing up my comorbidities, I was just instantly affirmed and I got my prescription the same day.

00:57:54.080 So things have changed a lot from when Joey went to her therapist and and I had my experience with gender care.

00:58:02.120 That's shocking.

00:58:03.040 I mean, they're where are the Joey therapists?

00:58:05.680 You know, that's they're gone. 0.98

00:58:07.120 You know, the person like you're just an awesome, beautiful, butch lesbian. 1.00

00:58:10.820 Live it. 0.99

00:58:11.280 Love it, sister.

00:58:12.040 Welcome.

00:58:13.160 They're gone because and I want to bring in Stephanie for a minute here. 1.00

00:58:17.060 Stephanie, thank you for being here.

00:58:18.120 You're a therapist because the the entire psychiatric community, the mantra, the commitment is a firm period.

00:58:30.180 Exactly.

00:58:30.740 As therapists, we've been sold a bill of lies and we've essentially been convinced when it comes to gender not to do our jobs, not to explore the root causes of our patients distress, not to favor our patients long term health and well-being, but instead to just agree with their self-diagnosis and enforce their delusions and lead them down a medical pathway instead of investigating psychological treatments for psychological conditions.

00:58:59.560 Is it true that this quote gender affirming care is the only care that is officially recommended by the American Association of Academy of Pediatrics?

00:59:10.440 Well, I don't know about the AAP, but it's certainly not true that that's the only form of treatment.

00:59:16.640 I think Joey's story can attest to that.

00:59:18.660 Traditionally, up until very recently, the approach that was used was one called watchful waiting, which simply means that if a young person is presenting with gender related distress, no intervention is needed.

00:59:30.220 Just give that person time to mature and develop because as stories like Joey's will attest to many of the people who grow up feeling like they're somehow different, they're gender atypical, grow up to be gay and lesbian, and they need time to figure that out.

00:59:44.740 They need to struggle through their identity in adolescence, just as all of us struggle through matters of identity and belonging in adolescence and eventually come to terms with their sexuality.

00:59:52.820 There can also be many other reasons for gender related distress, like the ones that Kat has talked about.

00:59:57.760 And increasingly, as this has become so popular, we see that young people with almost any form of mental distress have learned because of social influence to attribute that distress to their gender when there could be many other causes.

01:00:12.400 So watchful waiting is a traditional approach, and there are many approaches to therapy that can help people grapple with whatever is causing them distress.

01:00:21.940 I believe in treating the root cause of the issue.

01:00:24.660 Many of these young people have treats of borderline personality disorder due to complex trauma, for example, and so dialectical behavioral therapy would be the gold standard of care.

01:00:32.820 There are many options besides so-called gender affirming care.

01:00:36.040 And the deep problem about this is it's not like taking a Benadryl when you need a Tylenol.

01:00:41.380 They set you down a path that's going to create so many more problems for you.

01:00:47.620 Meantime, they haven't addressed the problem that really brought you into the therapist's office.

01:00:52.300 So now you just have a Santa scroll-like list of issues that have not been addressed, that have been exacerbated.

01:00:59.960 And Kat, that brings me back to you because can we just spend a minute on the sexual assault and why that was a comorbidity that needed to be addressed, the trauma from that?

01:01:09.980 But do you think that did lead you, was it related to your gender questioning?

01:01:17.120 At the time, it was very subconscious, but I think it really strengthened my gender dysphoria.

01:01:24.080 I already suffered from gender dysphoria from when I was young for various reasons.

01:01:30.180 But it happened when I was in high school.

01:01:33.220 I was sexually assaulted, and I definitely think that that exacerbated my distress and made me feel more urgent about wanting to medicalize and appear as a man.

01:01:46.040 And at that point, I think it was when I asked my parents to take me to the gender therapist.

01:01:51.300 And of course, my parents thought it was just, oh, here's a specialist that will help her work through her issues and help her accept herself. 0.98

01:01:58.460 And that wasn't what happened at all.

01:02:02.780 Yeah.

01:02:03.060 Abigail Schreier writes about that in Irreversible Damage, which I'm sure you're all familiar with,

01:02:07.000 saying how the parents need to be very careful before just taking your kid into a therapist on this.

01:02:13.100 You've got to find the right therapist because otherwise you're just going to get a firm, a firm.

01:02:17.180 You need to find a Stephanie who's open-minded to wherever this is going to go 0.99

01:02:21.300 and understands that the vast, vast majority of kids who express any sort of dysphoric feelings are going to outgrow them.

01:02:28.180 What are the percentages?

01:02:29.140 I've heard so many different numbers on that, Stephanie, of the number of kids who will outgrow it.

01:02:36.260 Oh, anywhere between 65% to 98%, depending on the study you look at.

01:02:41.580 You have to consider the underlying factors.

01:02:44.100 So back in Joey's day and age, you know, when she was growing up before the cultural environment was what it was for Kat when she was growing up, for example,

01:02:53.020 of course, the percentages of gender dysphoria were lower in general,

01:02:57.240 but they were primarily associated with kids who would grow up to be gay or lesbian.

01:03:01.740 They were associated with gender non-conforming children.

01:03:05.240 And so the studies show that the desistance rates are going to be higher depending on the psychosocial support.

01:03:12.840 So a kid growing up in an environment that supports them coming to terms with their sexuality is ultimately more likely to grow their gender dysphoria 0.66

01:03:19.440 than a kid growing up in a society with rigid gender roles that they can't relate to.

01:03:25.620 Now that it's become a social contagion, I think the desistance rates, if the kids were simply left alone, would be much, much higher

01:03:32.460 because there are so many kids who wouldn't have had gender dysphoria a generation ago.

01:03:36.760 The only reason they have any problem with their sexed body now is because of social influence. 0.92

01:03:41.380 And it's really tragic that we're making this trend into a lifelong medical condition for these kids.

01:03:46.740 I think the desistance rates, if kids were allowed to grow out of it at this day and age, would be very, very high.

01:03:52.560 And the other dynamic is once they start down the road of transition, it's very hard to stop

01:03:57.200 because the trans community will guilt you into staying with them. 0.96

01:04:02.020 And they see you, Kat, I'm sure you know this firsthand, as a turncoat of sorts.

01:04:05.140 It's very strange how it's like leaving a cult.

01:04:07.920 You know how the cult, the first rule of leaving a cult is the cult has to turn on the escapee.

01:04:14.540 Yeah, I think that the trans, I won't say every trans identifying person, but, you know,

01:04:22.320 a lot of them do feel like detransitioners are a threat to them because, you know, the argument is that,

01:04:28.500 of course, gender affirmation is the only treatment and that just this very, you know,

01:04:33.620 at first it was no one detransitions, then it was a tiny, tiny percentage detransition.

01:04:38.560 And, you know, I don't think they'd be trying to hide the number of detransitioners if they 1.00

01:04:43.180 didn't feel it was a threat to their ideology.

01:04:45.220 And that adds just another layer of stress, Joey, to these people like Kat who have recognized

01:04:50.960 they're not actually trans, they didn't need any of these treatments, and now they've got 0.94

01:04:56.660 people turning on them.

01:04:58.060 And again, as we discussed, all the underlying problems have gone unaddressed, new problems

01:05:02.200 have been added, and now you've got a group of very active bullies trying to shame you. 0.99

01:05:08.200 I'd like to address the issue that you brought up about the AAP in that just this past October,

01:05:13.780 our duty, which is a group here in the U.S. now, we protested in front of the conference

01:05:22.300 for the American Academy of Pediatrics.

01:05:25.060 It is very much the affirmation model is the only model that they are recommending.

01:05:30.660 There's a doctor named Julia Mason. 0.91

01:05:32.280 She co-authored a piece called Resolution 27, which basically was begging the AAP to pay attention

01:05:41.300 and say, you know, look what Sweden is doing.

01:05:44.760 Look at what all these other countries are doing.

01:05:46.680 Countries that were promoting this idea of a sex change, which we all know isn't real

01:05:52.020 anyway, and they won't even listen to it.

01:05:55.400 They didn't publish it.

01:05:56.520 They would not promote it or anything.

01:05:59.540 And so Resolution 27 is something that's popping up now and again as we are planning

01:06:05.400 more protests coming up in San Diego in May.

01:06:10.940 Joey, what are the countries that we just had on a guest who was telling us in the UK

01:06:14.880 they will not do these procedures on a minor.

01:06:17.440 They won't even do the hormones on a minor. 0.95

01:06:19.960 The United States very different.

01:06:21.080 I've heard Sweden mentioned a few times as a country that's like the UK and saying no.

01:06:25.560 What are the countries that have said no to this?

01:06:27.900 I'd need help from Kat and Stephanie on this one.

01:06:30.040 I don't know all the countries, but I know there are at least six, I believe, at this

01:06:33.500 point.

01:06:35.220 Sweden, Finland.

01:06:37.280 Megan, have you covered what happened at the Tavistock Goods Clinic yet?

01:06:40.780 Yep.

01:06:41.300 Yes.

01:06:42.180 Horrifying.

01:06:44.260 And now it's closed.

01:06:47.460 Yeah.

01:06:47.940 So why do you think any thoughts from any of you on why are these countries over in Europe

01:06:52.640 so far ahead of us on reaching sanity on this issue?

01:06:57.400 What is it?

01:06:57.840 Is it just wokeism is more ingrained here in America?

01:07:01.620 This the takeover of identity as the be all end all.

01:07:06.340 Like what?

01:07:06.860 Why?

01:07:07.160 Why are we not willing to accept progress on these issues and realize we've made a mistake?

01:07:13.240 Well, for one thing, Megan, all the countries that have reversed their policies have done.

01:07:18.400 As far as I know, all of them have done systematic reviews of the evidence, which is exactly

01:07:22.580 what, as Joey mentioned earlier, Dr. Julia Mason has called for and the AAP has suppressed.

01:07:30.220 What's the matter with AAP, Joey?

01:07:32.100 So go ahead.

01:07:32.820 You go ahead, Kat, and then I'll bring in Joey.

01:07:34.380 Go ahead.

01:07:34.580 Oh, quickly, I just wanted to say, I also think it has to do with the political polarization

01:07:39.080 here and the two party system.

01:07:41.300 Like, for instance, in the UK, there are more political parties with more nuanced views versus

01:07:46.080 like, for instance, people on the left here.

01:07:48.360 A lot of them will support, you know, children transitioning, for instance, because they're

01:07:52.240 like, oh, well, it must be the right thing to do because I'm on the left and the left

01:07:55.380 supports gay rights and women's rights, etc.

01:07:58.240 And they think anything that the conservatives are saying must be bad because it's so polarized

01:08:04.300 here.

01:08:04.800 And I don't think it's quite the same in countries like the UK.

01:08:07.460 So people are able to look at things from a more complex perspective.

01:08:12.560 And you're all of the left, are you not?

01:08:14.120 Like, politically?

01:08:17.600 Disaffected.

01:08:18.120 I've been red-pilled.

01:08:20.620 Yeah, less so than I used to be.

01:08:23.600 I don't think after you've talked to politicians, like I've testified in front of the California

01:08:27.720 Senate.

01:08:28.240 For instance, and shared my story.

01:08:30.440 And I was gaslit and told that that couldn't have happened to me because trans people have 1.00

01:08:34.560 to go through months or years of evaluation and therapy before getting hormones.

01:08:39.820 And so they refused to believe my story.

01:08:42.300 They're really rude to me.

01:08:43.640 And I just realized they're not able to see a reason.

01:08:46.780 They're not objective.

01:08:47.680 They have an agenda.

01:08:48.640 And so I don't really trust either political party at this point.

01:08:52.860 Yeah.

01:08:53.120 I'm in the same boat as Kat and Joey.

01:08:55.200 I was always very liberal until a few years ago.

01:08:58.240 And now I'm politically homeless.

01:08:59.440 And I had a very similar experience to Kat.

01:09:01.400 Of course, they weren't gaslighting me based on my personal experience.

01:09:04.340 But I sat right next to my friend, detransitioner Camille Kiefel, who gave her testimony.

01:09:08.280 And I watched these Democrat state representatives who seemed very confident that they were on

01:09:17.160 the right side of history, just dismissing her experience.

01:09:19.880 And when you've been through something like that, it leaves you feeling without a team.

01:09:24.340 Yeah.

01:09:24.840 Yeah, I know.

01:09:25.600 It can get you voting for the 800-pound gorilla orange man bat. 0.95

01:09:29.260 Like, that's really what it's like.

01:09:31.680 Rick Grinnell came on the show, and he said a line, which has stayed with me.

01:09:34.760 He's like, these people must be stopped.

01:09:36.480 They can't even tell you what a woman is. 1.00

01:09:37.980 It's like, well, I've never heard somebody boil down the argument for Republicans better

01:09:40.980 than that.

01:09:43.000 But Joey, what is it?

01:09:44.260 There's too much money.

01:09:45.500 I can't say this enough.

01:09:47.040 Jennifer Billick, who's in the film as well, she's an artist turned like accidental investigative 0.71

01:09:52.800 journalist, starting in 2013 in New York, where she was involved in the green movement.

01:10:00.320 And colleagues of hers had asked her, hey, we'd like to come to New York and do a talk.

01:10:04.440 Can you find us a place to gather?

01:10:07.540 Remember, this is 2013, New York City.

01:10:10.460 She said, no problem.

01:10:11.940 Great.

01:10:12.240 She started to look at one venue that would say, yes, sure, and then all of a sudden get

01:10:18.200 a phone call, sorry, we can't give you the venue, no real reasons, go to another venue.

01:10:24.940 She fell through a few of those, from what I understand, and then she thought, what is

01:10:28.960 going on here?

01:10:30.320 All of these normal conference rooms and things like that where you can rent space, we're turning

01:10:36.220 them down.

01:10:36.800 Why?

01:10:37.080 Because the organization that she was trying to get a meeting space for believed in biological

01:10:44.120 reality.

01:10:46.560 And that is some of the beginnings.

01:10:48.840 We're talking 2013.

01:10:50.680 Since then, Jennifer started doing writings about this.

01:10:55.000 She's got the 11th Hour blog.

01:10:57.380 It is an undeniable breakdown of people like the Pritzker family, the money that was given

01:11:03.640 to the Obama campaign, which had I known then what I know now, I don't know if I would have

01:11:09.880 been one of those Obama warriors because I was really heavy into the Obama scene in the

01:11:15.120 Bay Area, recruited a lot of people to vote for Obama.

01:11:19.720 I had no idea that there were already things in place to be able to push the whole bathroom

01:11:26.500 issue.

01:11:27.000 Remember how that was such a big deal?

01:11:28.640 You know, it was like the bathrooms.

01:11:29.640 And it started with that, and it just went from there.

01:11:34.520 And Jennifer Pritzker, Martine Rothblatt, there are so many wealthy, mostly men, there are a number

01:11:42.380 of women, with huge investments in, guess what, big pharma, medical appliances, Stryker Corporation. 1.00

01:11:52.300 We're talking this, the tentacles of this is, it's so huge, but it's captured all of our

01:12:00.640 media, and we've exported it.

01:12:03.980 You know, if you wonder why other countries haven't stopped, haven't backed off, this is

01:12:08.980 what's going on.

01:12:10.000 And unfortunately, and I don't know, Megan, if you've studied much about the agenda, UN

01:12:15.520 Agenda 2030, but everything that we're doing is falling right in line with the fact that

01:12:22.900 it looks like we have maybe six and a half years to maintain the humanity that we now

01:12:28.960 know.

01:12:30.060 And I know it might sound tin hat, but all people have to do is really read the UN Agenda 2030,

01:12:37.300 which is supposed to be about sustainability all over the globe.

01:12:40.660 Part of the sustainability is the removal of sex, the replacement with the word gender

01:12:49.380 so that it becomes this amorphous thing.

01:12:53.160 And it's about population control and all kinds of stuff.

01:12:56.720 But Kelly J, I mean, that's one of Kelly J's issue is, is, you know, and I'll get to that

01:13:01.300 with her the next time she comes on.

01:13:02.880 She she's like, I, I don't accept gender. 1.00

01:13:05.800 Gender's not, it's a made up thing. 0.99

01:13:07.580 Sex is what we should be talking about. 1.00

01:13:09.360 Biological sex is what's real and gender is a made up thing that's now being used to 0.98

01:13:14.080 control the way we speak.

01:13:15.120 And so on.

01:13:15.540 You agree with that, Joey?

01:13:17.000 Absolutely.

01:13:17.560 I mean, it was a way in growing up again in the 50s and 60s.

01:13:21.100 Gender is a social construct.

01:13:22.920 It's something that the minute, you know, Jazz Jennings as a child, as a little boy who

01:13:29.140 happened to do something or have some behavior that his mother decided was more girly, you

01:13:35.860 know, what is that?

01:13:36.800 That's gender. 1.00

01:13:37.460 That's what we do when we have boys that are sensitive and they care about others the

01:13:42.680 way that girls are conditioned to do. 1.00

01:13:44.600 And if you have a girl that wants to play baseball, she might be a little rough house. 1.00

01:13:48.800 All of a sudden, that's where gender came in. 1.00

01:13:51.440 And that's all related to John Money.

01:13:54.060 Yes.

01:13:54.340 The weirdo at Johns Hopkins who tried to split up those twin boys and raise one as a girl.

01:13:58.580 Um, but wait, this is so interesting to me because I, when I was at NBC, I did all these

01:14:04.660 shows on, on gender dysphoria, kids and so on, uh, shows for which I feel I, I need to

01:14:12.840 atone.

01:14:13.860 I really do.

01:14:14.740 I just, I just feel like I blindly jumped into be supportive and be kind to be compassionate.

01:14:20.080 And even with kids without stopping to realize what it was, I was platforming and even advocating.

01:14:28.960 Um, I've really had my eyes open since then.

01:14:31.480 But in any event, um, I, I used to be told on those shows by activists on the other side

01:14:38.120 of this issue.

01:14:39.080 Gender is a social construct.

01:14:40.380 It's nothing but a social construct. 0.89

01:14:41.980 And I remember thinking that's ridiculous.

01:14:44.040 That's not true. 0.82

01:14:44.820 Gender is real.

01:14:45.660 You know, if you're a woman, you're a woman. 1.00

01:14:46.860 If you're a man, you're a man.

01:14:47.840 But I think I was conflating things, right?

01:14:50.420 Like you're on the opposite side of this and you're saying the same thing, but for very

01:14:54.900 different reasons.

01:14:55.480 So can you just explain that, Joey, to people who are confused?

01:14:58.860 Well, the whole thing is, again, to use Jazz Jennings as an example of the poster boy for

01:15:05.700 children becoming medicalized at an first socially, this idea that as a girl, for me, I was a really

01:15:15.720 rough and tumble girl.

01:15:17.060 And I used to look at bugs under microscopes and, you know, things like that.

01:15:21.760 And everybody decided I was a tomboy.

01:15:24.020 And so I got called a tomboy.

01:15:26.400 So there's that whole thing of starting to move me socially towards this idea that I had

01:15:33.360 to have boy in there somehow because I was doing things that were what I would say now

01:15:38.440 is just natural exploration.

01:15:40.920 And for a boy to grab a doll or to start having fantasy play where they're in a play or they're

01:15:49.360 doing these things that we see somebody, I don't even want to say his name now, stealing

01:15:53.880 every company that they can to advertise as a very, you know, as a girl.

01:16:00.640 The whole thing of being a girl or being a boy, these are things that since I grew up in

01:16:07.780 the 50s and once I became a feminist and started looking at that, that was a much broader way

01:16:14.960 for me to see how kids could be raised, which is let them have their natural exploration,

01:16:21.280 let children gravitate towards things like playing with the playing with trains or playing

01:16:26.660 with with dolls or or anything like that.

01:16:30.120 But what we have now is all being dictated to children through a device, whether it's something

01:16:36.560 they have in their hands or they are looking at like a computer, like like I'm looking at

01:16:42.060 right now, the kinds of stuff that is coming across the screen and that children are getting

01:16:46.800 access to is unbelievable.

01:16:50.800 I mean, the idea of pornography and children getting exposed to pornography and they don't

01:16:54.880 even know what it is through YouTube, YouTube kids.

01:16:58.480 And then they get through YouTube kids.

01:17:00.960 They get interested in the influencers who are on their own or even even Mr. Beast.

01:17:08.140 We were just talking about that with Kelly J.

01:17:09.700 Mr. Beast has got this guy who's transitioning in front. 1.00

01:17:12.520 He's got one hundred and forty four million subscribers.

01:17:15.260 I heard Mr. Beast say at a thing, an event I attended a long ago, he wants to have a billion,

01:17:19.980 which sounded like a great ideal.

01:17:22.680 You know, go for it.

01:17:23.500 You've been so successful.

01:17:24.520 You spread joy.

01:17:25.780 You know, you do these fun videos.

01:17:27.460 No.

01:17:28.120 So quietly, he's one of the main stars of the show is going from a biological man to

01:17:34.440 dressing like a woman, hormone replacement therapy, showing off his long manicured nails, 0.98

01:17:39.720 left his wife saying his son has absolutely no problem with his two year old.

01:17:43.920 I'm sure the two year old has absolutely no.

01:17:45.380 Sure.

01:17:45.760 OK, this is happening with a main character on one of the most popular YouTube shows.

01:17:50.880 No, literally the most popular YouTube show that is out there.

01:17:54.560 And I just say I've said this before, but I just want people to understand even yours truly.

01:17:58.180 When I was a little girl, grew up in the 70s, total tomboy, I was the only girl on the all

01:18:02.940 boys baseball team.

01:18:04.920 This is my favorite picture of myself, even now in my age.

01:18:07.480 That's my favorite picture of myself right there in the 70s.

01:18:10.360 Little girl, tomboy on a tire swing, jeans, dirty, blue sweatshirt, boy haircut.

01:18:17.860 I look like a boy.

01:18:19.140 Joey, they would have been transitioning me to they, you know, Stephanie's brethren in

01:18:24.540 the therapeutic field would have said, yeah, sure.

01:18:26.960 All the signs are there.

01:18:28.180 And as anybody can see, you know, now I turned out to be a rather feminine woman, but certainly

01:18:33.020 in some ways I've always considered myself a little bit more male.

01:18:36.340 Like I think I have more than my fair share of testosterone.

01:18:38.720 It's probably why, you know, I've done OK in my field and had some, you know, weird public

01:18:43.680 moments that people are aware of.

01:18:45.120 But that's fine.

01:18:45.700 I'm still in the tent.

01:18:46.940 I'm still in the tent.

01:18:48.040 And the problem is, Stephanie, they're not allowing for that now.

01:18:51.820 And I don't even know if they're allowed to.

01:18:54.140 So if you're a therapist now and you say, let's explore whether you've had a sexual

01:19:01.500 trauma or your parents are getting a divorce or you have an eating disorder or you're autistic,

01:19:06.660 are could you are you in trouble?

01:19:08.400 Could you be violating a standard of care?

01:19:10.180 Well, I don't think you're actually violating any standard of care.

01:19:14.560 I think that's a highly defensible move.

01:19:16.360 However, most therapists have been intimidated out of doing that because of the bans on so-called

01:19:22.960 conversion therapy.

01:19:24.340 Now, conversion therapy used to mean these horrifically abusive practices.

01:19:29.180 If you if you look at the Wikipedia page for conversion therapy, you will see a history

01:19:33.220 of physically torturing people to try to decondition homosexuality. 0.86

01:19:38.160 But now it's been redefined to this acronym sexual orientation and gender identity change

01:19:44.400 efforts.

01:19:44.920 So they've lumped sexual orientation and gender identity together.

01:19:48.000 And they've used this very vague term change efforts to say that any therapist who is suspected

01:19:54.860 of trying to change the gender identity of their patient is guilty of conversion therapy.

01:20:01.500 So that puts a therapist in an ethical bind from the moment the client sets foot in our

01:20:07.360 office or a virtual office, if you're like me and you work online, because we have to

01:20:11.620 decide what do I call my patient?

01:20:13.680 What name and pronouns do I use for my patient?

01:20:16.700 So if I and I don't work with this population anymore because I have a public presence, so

01:20:21.520 I work with detransitioners and concerned parents instead. 0.99

01:20:24.540 But if I were just an ordinary therapist without a public presence and I had a client coming to

01:20:28.460 me saying that they wanted to be called the name and pronouns of the opposite

01:20:31.320 sex, I would have a dilemma right from the beginning. 0.64

01:20:33.100 Do I agree and collude with the client's current sense of self or do I challenge that?

01:20:40.380 This is a challenge we face right from the start.

01:20:43.940 And the fear of every therapist is that if they show any skepticism toward the client's

01:20:51.240 so-called identity, that the client could perceive them as trying to change their identity, even

01:20:57.280 if the therapist is trying to help them get to the root cause of their gender dysphoria,

01:21:01.540 the client could take offense to that and file a complaint.

01:21:04.420 And so the system is really stacked against therapists.

01:21:07.160 Most therapists have worked very hard to get our licenses and our careers are really important

01:21:12.160 to us.

01:21:12.840 And so is doing right by people and frankly, being a little too agreeable some of the time.

01:21:18.220 So that's why many therapists live in fear or go along with what's being asked or simply

01:21:23.060 avoid working with this population altogether, which is tragic because these young people 1.00

01:21:26.480 really do need our help.

01:21:28.380 Yeah, you're worried you're going to lose your license and your livelihood if you do

01:21:32.160 your job the way you're supposed to do it.

01:21:35.220 I can understand why a therapist wouldn't take the risk, but you're right.

01:21:37.960 Then they should just get out of the business of helping these kids because they can't.

01:21:41.920 What they've been told effectively is you can't.

01:21:44.240 You can't help them.

01:21:44.960 And as a parent, if my child ever expressed any of this dysphoria, et cetera, I would never

01:21:50.720 take them to a therapist, I would do my homework and get them to somebody like you.

01:21:54.540 But God, you have to work so hard.

01:21:56.100 Most parents are working hard.

01:21:57.380 They've got jobs.

01:21:58.140 They've got their lives.

01:21:58.920 They're not listening to these discussions.

01:22:01.520 They don't know this stuff.

01:22:02.700 They haven't read Irreversible Damage.

01:22:05.360 So that's the problem.

01:22:06.480 All right, we're going to talk a little bit more about what happened to Kat when she got

01:22:08.920 drawn into this whirlwind.

01:22:11.400 And then I really do want to follow up on the autism thing, Stephanie, because I know it's

01:22:16.580 like you have an autistic kid.

01:22:18.060 You put them in this system and before you know it, they're exiting, being told they're

01:22:21.740 trans when that may not be it at all.

01:22:24.700 And it's happening more and more.

01:22:26.000 And I feel like to that population in particular, it's just so unfair to all the populations

01:22:30.220 who aren't.

01:22:31.020 It is unfair.

01:22:32.580 Stand by more with the stars of the documentary Affirmation Generation.

01:22:36.880 Again, you can get it at affirmationgenerationmovie.com.

01:22:40.900 We'll be right back.

01:22:43.440 Clinicians, you know, we've been sold a bill of lies. 0.54

01:22:45.660 And I honestly feel for all my colleagues who are still doing the affirmation thing who

01:22:52.240 really think they're doing the right thing.

01:22:54.640 They really think they're on the right side of history.

01:22:56.340 I understand that.

01:22:57.800 That's going to come crashing down at some point.

01:22:59.820 And it's going to be really hard to reckon with what they've done.

01:23:02.020 Same with the teachers, doctors and parents.

01:23:04.600 We're rushing to make a permanent medical transformation.

01:23:10.560 I can't think of anything that I've seen in my time as a therapist that is more terrifying

01:23:19.640 and destructive.

01:23:21.320 I don't know what the long term impact will be.

01:23:24.180 Affirmation Generation, The Lies of Transgender Medicine. 1.00

01:23:30.260 Again, available to you at affirmationgenerationmovie.com.

01:23:34.660 The executive producer of this movie, Joey Bright, is with us today, along with the

01:23:38.440 transitioner, Kat Katenson and Stephanie Nguyen, who is a therapist whose soundbite you heard

01:23:44.260 in part there.

01:23:44.840 So let's first spend some time with Kat, because I want to hear, Kat, sort of how quickly you

01:23:53.460 got therapized with hormones and so on.

01:23:56.180 What age was it when you first had that first meeting where you were basically affirmed?

01:24:00.760 Yeah.

01:24:01.280 So it was age 17 when my gender dysphoria had increased in severity, and this was correlated

01:24:09.140 with being sexually violated.

01:24:12.360 And my parents took me to a gender therapist.

01:24:16.580 He is the head honcho of gender care in Sacramento, which is the area I lived at the time.

01:24:23.740 And he basically, like, so to back up a little bit, I'd had a history of severe eating disorders.

01:24:30.100 So I had already previously been to an inpatient treatment center for that.

01:24:34.920 And I was used to being really, like, pressed on and questioned by therapists and having, like,

01:24:40.480 everything that came out of my mouth be, like, questioned.

01:24:43.820 And that was the exact opposite of what he did.

01:24:46.700 And so, like, you know, when I just said, well, you know, I really hate being a girl.

01:24:50.400 I feel like I should be a boy.

01:24:51.560 I want to be a boy.

01:24:52.340 And he just said, okay, man.

01:24:55.480 And he started calling me, like, he, him.

01:24:57.420 And it was, like, immediate affirmation.

01:24:59.800 And, you know, there was a part of me that was happy about that.

01:25:03.520 But then there was, like, a part of me that was also, like, well, this is kind of odd.

01:25:07.300 And by appointment three, he told my parents, he asked both my parents to come into his office.

01:25:12.240 And he told them, I think that he, he should start testosterone.

01:25:19.000 That would be my professional recommendation.

01:25:21.400 And my parents were shocked.

01:25:23.620 You know, they thought he was going to be working with me on, like, psychological issues.

01:25:26.660 And so, they didn't take me back to see him again.

01:25:32.080 Yeah, go ahead.

01:25:32.860 Uh-huh.

01:25:33.860 Oh, well, I was just going to say, part of me was honestly, like, a little bit relieved.

01:25:37.600 Just because it felt, like, too fast, even to me.

01:25:39.840 And I had some other things I was dealing with.

01:25:41.620 Like, you know, I always wondered what would happen to my singing voice.

01:25:45.900 And that was also this huge passion of mine.

01:25:48.020 And, like, you know, actually, like, a fundamental goal was to be a singer.

01:25:51.460 So, anyway, I'm, it was crazy, though, like, how fast the process went.

01:25:58.100 How long after that did you begin testosterone?

01:26:02.680 So, it was a long process for me.

01:26:06.960 Like, it was 2008 when I saw that therapist at age 17.

01:26:10.900 So, I was still ahead of, like, the current wave of people who were, like, transitioning and detransitioning. 1.00

01:26:16.160 Um, but after my bad experience, uh, so when I was 23, so four years later, and at this point was when I was living on my own independently, um, I did pursue going on testosterone.

01:26:29.060 Again, I was prescribed a megadose of injectable testosterone, um, intramuscular.

01:26:35.560 And, um, I was not given any instructions on, like, how to, to do it.

01:26:40.660 I mean, I, I was, like, sent home with a packet on how to do it, but, like, no one injected it for me or, like, showed me how to do it.

01:26:47.460 And, um, so I, like, injected this megadose of testosterone.

01:26:51.040 It was really scary and traumatic.

01:26:53.480 Um, I was, like, you know, worried I would, like, hit a vein and that I could die or something, which actually is possible if, if you're injecting intramuscularly.

01:27:02.520 Um, and that was when I was 23, and then, like, after injecting, I had all of these, um, aggression.

01:27:10.640 Like, like, I had emotional instability.

01:27:13.020 Um, I got hot flashes.

01:27:14.840 I just, like, it just really scared me.

01:27:17.420 And I was, like, you know what?

01:27:18.300 I still think that I'm trans, but I'm just not going to medicalize.

01:27:22.020 Like, this seems like a nightmare.

01:27:23.960 Um, but then I went back to my university in California, and the ideology there was, like, um, another thing I had been worried about is that I wouldn't pass.

01:27:32.520 Pass as a man, um, because I'm only five foot two, and I'm, like, very petite and, like, very feminine looking.

01:27:38.260 And my family had told me, like, you can't pass.

01:27:41.500 You're not going to pass as a man. 0.61

01:27:42.980 Um, but then when I got to my university at, um, in California, like, people were, like, oh, trans is beautiful.

01:27:50.920 You know, like, don't worry about it if you can't pass.

01:27:53.040 Like, you're going to find your authentic self.

01:27:54.640 Like, and then I started thinking, well, maybe I could be happy if I transitioned.

01:27:57.820 And then finally I had a really traumatic breakup of, like, a long relationship.

01:28:02.760 And that kind of, um, I think triggered me to be, like, okay, I'm going to do this.

01:28:07.800 I'm going to medicalize or I'm going to start taking testosterone.

01:28:10.820 And so I came out as trans in 2019 publicly.

01:28:15.240 And then in 2020 was when I finally started, I went full steam ahead with my medical transition and started injecting testosterone.

01:28:24.220 You mentioned the voice, uh, the documentary, you spend some time on that.

01:28:29.020 Your voice did change.

01:28:30.760 Uh, we've cut a couple of clips from the piece so we can talk about it.

01:28:34.580 Here is your voice before the testosterone in clip 11.

01:28:45.240 My God, it's amazing.

01:28:59.920 Uh, incredibly beautiful.

01:29:01.960 Everything about that is beautiful.

01:29:03.580 Uh, and then this is 2.5 months into testosterone.

01:29:09.740 I have often dreamed of a far off place.

01:29:15.240 Where a great warm welcome would be waiting for me.

01:29:20.640 Where the crowds will cheer when they see my face.

01:29:25.980 And a voice keeps saying, this is where I'm meant to be.

01:29:35.520 Kat, can I tell you, that makes me so sad.

01:29:37.740 That makes me so sad.

01:29:38.780 You still, you look beautiful.

01:29:40.360 You look like a man.

01:29:41.880 Uh, and your voice sounds so much lower.

01:29:43.460 But it makes me sad to see that because I feel like that was done to you and not by you.

01:29:51.740 Yeah.

01:29:52.400 Um, you know, I really, um, I, I do wish that.

01:29:57.540 But like, because I actually asked the doctor, you know, at Planned Parenthood, like I, I said,

01:30:01.960 you know, I am a semi-professional singer.

01:30:05.080 It's also just very therapeutic for me and a big part of my life.

01:30:08.860 And, you know, what can I do with the testosterone?

01:30:10.680 Like, can I start at a lower dose?

01:30:12.080 Like, you know, what can I do to preserve my voice?

01:30:14.760 And basically what I was told is that my voice would get deeper, but I wasn't told about all the issues that I'd have with my voice.

01:30:21.180 And like, I've been dealing with persistent pain, um, since starting testosterone basically.

01:30:27.140 Um, and you know, I've been getting some tests done to actually see what that is, but yeah, I definitely don't feel like I was prepared for the changes that happen.

01:30:35.640 And, and people always like, you know, I've been really jumped on by trans activists and been told I was stupid for like not expecting the voice changes.

01:30:43.060 But like, no one told me I would be in pain, um, or the extent of like how difficult it would be to sing.

01:30:48.720 And, you know, thankfully I've been retraining my voice for two years and I actually really love my voice again now.

01:30:54.280 Like I have been able to.

01:30:55.300 We have a clip of that too.

01:30:56.320 We have a clip of that too.

01:30:57.520 Here's your current voice.

01:30:59.220 Let's take a listen.

01:31:05.640 Good choice.

01:31:28.260 Good choice of songs.

01:31:30.040 Do you expect it to return to the way it once was?

01:31:33.680 I mean, entirely or no?

01:31:35.640 Um, no, I, I, at this point, I don't think it's ever going to be exactly the same as it was, but, um, I've actually regained quite a bit of the upper range as well.

01:31:47.260 Um, like later in that song, I actually jump up an octave to like the closer to the original key.

01:31:53.280 Um, but it's the tonal quality is like very different and it feels very different.

01:31:57.940 And then also when I go, when I'm trying to sing for a long period of time, my voice gets more fatigued and it's, it's harder to bring it up.

01:32:05.560 Because basically what happens when you take testosterone is you end up with, um, thicker vocal folds.

01:32:12.780 They're like thicker and heavier, but your diaphragm and your lung size, your lung capacity and all of that, um, stays the same.

01:32:19.340 And so it's actually harder to create enough air pressure to bring that voice higher.

01:32:24.740 And there's some other anatomical issues that can happen as well.

01:32:28.000 And, you know, I really am fortunate that I stopped testosterone after only a few months because, um, I think if I would have kept going, I probably would have lost that upper register, um, like for good.

01:32:40.340 And, um, it was gone for quite a while to begin with.

01:32:43.340 And I didn't know if it would come back and I'm very thankful that it has.

01:32:47.060 No, thank God.

01:32:48.500 Um, it, it would have gone else a different way.

01:32:50.920 Had you been listening to those around you?

01:32:53.200 Um, can we spend a second, Stephanie and our final moments on.

01:32:57.600 Autism and frankly, eating disorders.

01:33:00.280 You know, I, I'm not a therapist, but I, you know, we mentioned Dylan Mulvaney.

01:33:04.520 I think Dylan Mulvaney is clearly got an eating disorder.

01:33:06.640 I mean, there's the person has absolutely no weight on them.

01:33:09.520 And I feel like I'm not surprised to hear Kat saying she was struggling with one too.

01:33:14.080 It's like everything gets channeled into gender.

01:33:16.100 Now, even something as serious as autism, which should not be confused with gender, but what, what's the connection there and what's happening there?

01:33:24.440 Well, it really makes sense.

01:33:25.620 If you think about the experience of the typical autistic child and let's take an autistic girl, for example, um, autistic girls have an especially difficult time in adolescence.

01:33:36.640 It's because female social behavior, let's admit it is confusing. 1.00

01:33:41.100 It's, it's complicated and subtle and self-contradictory, especially if you think about middle school and high school girls.

01:33:47.980 And so if you're an autistic girl, especially undiagnosed, uh, you're not able to track what's happening socially.

01:33:55.100 You're not picking up on those cues and then you become bullied and excluded.

01:33:59.840 You don't understand all the social messages going by, but you know, you don't fit in, you know, you can't keep up with these female ways of relating. 1.00

01:34:07.120 You probably also have, uh, sensory issues.

01:34:10.360 So things like dressing in a stereotypically feminine fashion or spending lots of time on uncomfortable beauty procedures just doesn't make any sense or feel good.

01:34:20.480 And so then you're coping with a lot of anxiety and shame because things aren't going well for you, but you don't understand why.

01:34:26.060 Then this ideology steps in and it says, here's why you don't feel like a girl.

01:34:30.540 It's because you're not one.

01:34:31.680 You were born in the wrong body.

01:34:33.020 You were really meant to be a boy.

01:34:34.440 And that is just so seductive because it offers relief from all of that stress and shame that they've been carrying.

01:34:41.720 And it offers a concrete path forward with steps that they can understand going to the therapist, getting a letter, getting puberty blockers, binders, injections, and so on.

01:34:53.800 It's a path that they understand.

01:34:55.260 And that's very appealing to these autistic girls.

01:34:58.240 Oh my God.

01:34:58.680 I was always thinking it was the parents who are like, oh yes, let's do gender dysphoria.

01:35:02.500 That's a better diagnosis than autism.

01:35:03.900 You raise a much more complicated and pernicious problem, which is they're tapping into the insecurities of the person who may be on the spectrum in an appealing way.

01:35:13.540 This is sick.

01:35:14.460 You can learn much, much more thanks to these amazing women at AffirmationGenerationMovie.com, an important film, a brave film, as are its makers and participants.

01:35:25.500 Thank you all so much for sharing and speaking out.

01:35:28.160 All the best to you.

01:35:29.460 Wow.

01:35:29.980 Thanks, Megan.

01:35:31.400 And thanks to our audience for having us.

01:35:33.040 Yes, any time.

01:35:35.020 And thank you to our audience for sharing the journey with us this week.

01:35:38.520 It's been a big one, right?

01:35:39.520 We've been talking about this issue a lot because it's important and I appreciate you doing it with me.

01:35:44.160 Have a great weekend.

01:35:45.000 We will be back on Monday.

01:35:46.360 In the meantime, check out the American News Minute.

01:35:48.740 Go to MeganKelley.com and you can celebrate Stredwick's birthday and see what mischief he caused on it.

01:35:55.620 It's sort of an evolution.

01:35:56.860 You'll see.

01:35:57.840 Naughty as ever.

01:35:58.520 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:36:04.200 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 14, 2023

Trans Ideology Harming Women, and Dangers of ＂Affirming＂ Care, with Kellie-Jay Keen ＂Posie Parker,＂ Cat Cattinson, and More ｜ Ep. 529

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