The Megyn Kelly Show - July 15, 2024


Trump Assassination Attempt Fallout, And Florida Docs Case Dropped, with Emily Jashinsky, Eliana Johnson, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, Sean Parnell, and More | Ep. 838


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 11 minutes

Words per minute

171.84277

Word count

22,522

Sentence count

1,478

Harmful content

Misogyny

30

sentences flagged

Toxicity

26

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A Florida judge dismisses a key part of the Mar-a-lago classified documents case against President Donald Trump. Megyn and her co-hosts, Mike Davis and Dave Ehrenberg, discuss why this is a victory and what it means for the future of the case.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:00:11.840 People, I can't even with this news day.
00:00:16.180 This is the list of soundbites that we were going to go to air with moments ago.
00:00:22.740 Then, we got the legal bombshell out of the Florida federal court.
00:00:30.160 Just buckle up.
00:00:31.700 I don't remember a news day this jam-packed in my time as a newswoman.
00:00:38.320 I don't remember one.
00:00:40.060 Welcome to the show, everyone.
00:00:41.100 I'm Megyn Kelly.
00:00:41.960 On Saturday night at a campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, former President Donald Trump
00:00:46.620 dodged a literal bullet, which grazed his ear in an assassination attempt that he survived,
00:00:53.120 but came within inches of taking his life.
00:00:56.300 This morning, Mr. Trump dodged perhaps the biggest legal bullet left in the lawfare chamber against
00:01:03.700 him as Judge Aileen Cannon dismissed the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case in full against him.
00:01:13.360 Oh, and by the way, the Republican National Convention kicks off today.
00:01:16.620 A more unified convention than previously planned.
00:01:19.580 Former Trump rival Nikki Haley now expected to take the stage.
00:01:22.880 DeSantis as well.
00:01:24.700 And Trump says he will name his VP pick any minute, any minute right now.
00:01:31.020 Reports by Forbes that J.D. Vance just left his, just left for, left his home in a motorcade.
00:01:39.880 Now, that's not typical of a U.S. senator, I think, but they are beefing up the security
00:01:47.720 for all potential Trump VPs.
00:01:50.700 So that doesn't necessarily tell us anything.
00:01:53.380 We're on edge waiting to hear the name.
00:01:57.200 We're going to cover it all, including shocking new reporting about the security failures leading
00:02:01.280 up to the assassination attempt and some stunning video that we have our hands on.
00:02:06.000 And I've watched this several times.
00:02:07.660 I can't believe my eyes.
00:02:09.180 But we begin with the breaking legal news out of Florida.
00:02:12.400 Joining me now, Mike Davis, founder of the Article 3 Project, live from the RNC site today
00:02:16.500 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
00:02:18.180 And Dave Ehrenberg, state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, where Mar-a-Lago is located.
00:02:24.380 Mike and Dave have been with us covering every twist and turn of this case.
00:02:27.420 Guys, welcome on this historic day.
00:02:29.440 Dave is overseas.
00:02:30.480 On your honeymoon, Dave, you're such a trooper.
00:02:34.740 Thank you so much for phoning in.
00:02:37.340 God bless and congrats.
00:02:39.800 Thank you, Megan.
00:02:40.820 I give all thanks to Sasha, my bride, because she allowed me to do your show.
00:02:46.740 She thinks that highly of you, Megan, and of Mike.
00:02:49.060 Oh, God bless you both.
00:02:51.060 Thank you so much for being here.
00:02:52.080 And Mike, what a day.
00:02:54.580 This was the case with the most legal peril.
00:02:58.680 The three of us have discussed it many times.
00:03:00.780 And it's not a partial victory.
00:03:02.540 It's a complete victory.
00:03:05.140 And it also may have a side effect of gutting what's left, the tatters of the January 6th
00:03:12.480 case, in which Jack Smith is also a special counsel.
00:03:16.480 So explain briefly why Judge Cannon just got rid of this case, Mike.
00:03:21.360 So we had the Office of the Independent Counsel under Ken Starr, most famously, that was created
00:03:29.360 by statute, a statute passed by Congress.
00:03:32.700 It's an office created by Congress, which is required under the Constitution.
00:03:37.400 And then once Congress intentionally allowed the Office of the Independent Counsel to lapse
00:03:43.080 because people were upset about Ken Starr's investigation of then-President Clinton, the
00:03:49.560 Justice Department just tried to do an in-run around the lapse of the Office of the Independent
00:03:55.600 Counsel.
00:03:56.060 And they created by fiat, by regulation, the Office of Special Counsel.
00:04:00.940 And they created this office that essentially, it's not presidentially appointed and Senate
00:04:07.580 confirmed like the Attorney General, like a United States attorney.
00:04:11.480 And this Office of Special Counsel essentially had jurisdiction that all over the country had
00:04:19.040 a pretty near full power of every U.S. attorney in this country.
00:04:24.780 And it had essentially an unlimited budget.
00:04:27.440 And that violates two provisions of the Constitution.
00:04:30.860 The Appointments Clause, which states that the offices must be created by Congress and they
00:04:39.220 must be appointed by the President, confirmed by the Senate.
00:04:42.720 And then it also violated the Appropriations Clause because with this essentially unlimited
00:04:47.140 budget, it's not that this office is not accountable to Congress, right?
00:04:51.420 So that's the problem.
00:04:52.780 And what needs to happen is if President Biden wants to bring these charges or the Attorney
00:04:58.740 General wants to bring these charges against President Trump, they need to do it through
00:05:02.540 a Senate-confirmed United States attorney.
00:05:05.520 They can do it through the United States attorney for the Southern District of Florida down in
00:05:09.840 Miami.
00:05:10.260 They can bring these charges if they want to refile them, but you can't do it through this
00:05:13.720 special counsel because this special counsel is not accountable to Congress.
00:05:18.380 It's not accountable to the Attorney General.
00:05:19.960 They actually made it where the special counsel is intentionally, they made it intentionally
00:05:25.180 where this special counsel is not accountable to the Attorney General on a day-to-day basis.
00:05:30.520 And that is clearly unconstitutional.
00:05:32.380 It's basically just a separations of powers thing.
00:05:35.080 It says, the court says, look, it's the President who gets to appoint people to these positions,
00:05:43.340 special counsel or U.S. attorney, that kind of thing.
00:05:47.080 And then the Congress weighs in with the confirmation.
00:05:49.220 And only for inferior offices can Congress create, you know, a process that might look
00:05:54.720 a little different.
00:05:55.720 And there is, that didn't happen here.
00:05:57.960 So Jack Smith has not been nominated by President Biden to do anything, nor any president prior,
00:06:03.700 you know, for this appointment.
00:06:05.020 And he certainly hasn't been confirmed by the U.S. Congress.
00:06:08.400 And nobody authorized payment to him.
00:06:10.480 And the Congress controls the purse strings.
00:06:11.960 So all of this is extra legal.
00:06:14.560 It's extra constitutional, which means it's unconstitutional.
00:06:18.300 But the thing is, Dave, other courts have taken a look at this argument in the past.
00:06:23.240 And it does appear that Judge Aileen Cannon is one of the few to find this way, right?
00:06:29.920 Other courts have been like, yeah, no, it's not a problem.
00:06:32.680 She's saying, you know what?
00:06:33.940 It is a problem.
00:06:34.640 And while she may look like a bit of an outlier, she's got something very helpful in her back
00:06:39.440 pocket, and that is Clarence Thomas's concurrence in the decision finding Trump has immunity
00:06:46.020 for most of the things alleged against him, which we read to our audience when it happened
00:06:49.740 as a very important piece of what might happen in getting rid of the Mar-a-Lago case.
00:06:55.340 And sure enough, Judge Cannon saw it, raised it, and felt as he did.
00:07:00.520 Right.
00:07:01.300 Notably, no other Supreme Court justice signed on to Justice Thomas's concurring opinion.
00:07:06.660 This position that Judge Cannon has taken is an outlier, as you correctly said.
00:07:11.220 I don't know of any other judge who has ruled her way.
00:07:15.140 Many other judges have found the opposite.
00:07:17.080 In fact, former President Trump thought this was such a reach of an argument that he did
00:07:23.100 not raise it in the D.C. election interference case or in this case.
00:07:27.300 He didn't raise it originally in the Mar-a-Lago case, except then the conservatives came in from
00:07:33.780 the outside and raised it. And then Judge Cannon allowed them not only to submit a brief, but then
00:07:39.780 to make the oral argument. And I mean, I think this case is definitely headed towards the Supreme
00:07:45.300 Court. It's going to go to the 11th Circuit, then the Supreme Court. And it is an outlier of an
00:07:50.580 opinion. I'm surprised by it. You know, I understand the argument that when they say that
00:07:56.520 Jack Smith is acting too independently. But remember, the rhetoric coming from Donald Trump
00:08:02.600 and his legal team has been Jack Smith is is a pawn for Joe Biden. Joe Biden and Merrick Garland
00:08:08.620 are pulling the strings here. So which is it? Is it that Jack Smith?
00:08:11.660 Well, those are political arguments. And this this this whole thing comes down to what is in
00:08:15.680 the Constitution. And, you know, there was a good piece in The Wall Street Journal by
00:08:19.940 former judge and then A.G. Michael Mukasey about it was July 7th. And he was pointing
00:08:27.080 out, you know, the actual language of the Constitution that, you know, Trump's going to
00:08:31.100 argue what he's going to argue. His rhetoric is kind of beside the point that he's pointing
00:08:34.940 to the appointments clause. And it's Article two, Section two, Clause two, which provides the
00:08:40.340 exclusive means for appointing officers of the U.S. All must be appointed by the president
00:08:46.760 and confirmed by the Senate if they are inferior officers. Like she said, OK, I'll accept for
00:08:53.240 purposes of this decision that Jack Smith is a special counsel is an inferior officer. She's
00:08:57.440 like, but I actually have questions about whether he would qualify. Then Congress may vest the
00:09:02.740 appointment in the president, the courts or the heads of departments like potentially an attorney
00:09:08.560 general. But they didn't. That's what Mike's saying. They didn't do that. There is not a special
00:09:13.880 counsel statute saying we will allow the A.G. to create this kind of special prosecutor and go out
00:09:19.460 there and take cases. And then also she she balanced them based on the appropriations clause saying
00:09:24.200 this prohibits money from the Treasury going out to people if it hasn't been appropriated by
00:09:30.520 Congress, which this hasn't. So that's how she got here. But let's and look, it'll be appealed to
00:09:35.480 the 11th Circuit, which is more conservative. And then it'll go up to the Supreme Court. Potentially
00:09:41.200 we'll see. But here's what I really want to get to, because the decision is what it is for today.
00:09:46.240 So what are the practice? I'll ask you this one, Dave, to start to start. What are the practical
00:09:49.900 effects of this decision now on this case, the election and January 6th, that case?
00:09:57.160 Well, this case was never going to go before the election. The trial was never going to happen
00:10:01.400 before the election once Judge Cannon got on it. And I I think that Judge Cannon doesn't get the
00:10:06.840 benefit of the doubt here because she has made very controversial rulings from the beginning
00:10:11.480 on this case that led her to be taken off the matter by the 11th Circuit. So this is going to
00:10:15.880 the 11th Circuit. And then I think it goes to the Supreme Court. But I think that Jack Smith now has
00:10:20.860 the ability to try to get Judge Cannon removed from the case. And as far as she's so fat, she found 1.00
00:10:26.060 exactly as a sitting justice of the United States Supreme Court found Clarence Thomas. She's such an
00:10:30.660 outlier and so crazy in her decision that a U.S. Supreme Court justice felt the need to 0.84
00:10:35.940 outline exactly this position. When a referee makes the calls every single time for the same team,
00:10:43.720 you have reason to doubt the impartiality of that referee.
00:10:49.580 Where was that argument with Judge Mershon back in the New York State Supreme? Please,
00:10:54.620 overwhelmingly, he ruled in favor of the prosecution. He gave Trump a few, but overwhelmed. That's not how
00:11:00.120 you go. Zero chance that Judge Eileen Cannon is getting DQ'd on this case at any point. That's my
00:11:05.300 view. Mike, so does January 6th go away too? Because Jack Smith, if he's illegal in one, he's illegal in
00:11:11.120 all. Well, this decision by Judge Cannon is only binding on that case in the Southern District of
00:11:19.320 Florida. It's not binding on Judge Chuckkin in D.C. It's persuasive. And I think that Trump can point
00:11:26.340 to it and ask for a dismissal. But look, here's the bottom line. These President Biden, these Biden
00:11:33.120 Democrats, they tried to bankrupt Trump. They tried to throw him in prison for the rest of his life.
00:11:40.920 They tried to throw him off the ballot. And now one of these anti-Trump people try to kill him. 0.98
00:11:47.900 President Trump is unstoppable, right? He's going to get elected in a landslide on November 5th.
00:11:54.080 He's going to take office on January 20th. And these federal cases are going to go away on day
00:11:59.580 one, as they should. Does this mean anything, Dave, for either the Hunter Biden prosecution,
00:12:08.520 which is different because it had a special prosecutor, but that special prosecutor is a
00:12:12.740 U.S. attorney. He has been appointed and confirmed. So in my view on that case is he's still legit.
00:12:18.360 He's okay. Or the Robert Herr investigation of President Biden, which has concluded without
00:12:29.420 charges. But there is some cleanup going on there right now as congressional Republicans try to get
00:12:34.920 the audio tape or videotape of his interview of Joe Biden. But he is not a federal officer at present,
00:12:43.360 right? And wasn't when he was acting as special counsel against Joe Biden. So does this have
00:12:48.700 any effect on those two? I agree with Mike. I think this is just confined to the Southern
00:12:54.260 District of Florida. And as it works its way up to the Supreme Court, then the breadth of the ruling
00:12:58.620 could potentially affect all future special counsels. It shouldn't affect the stuff in the past. I mean,
00:13:05.420 Robert Herr, John Durham, David Weiss, Robert Mueller. We've seen special counsels over and over again.
00:13:11.020 And this is the first time that one has been tossed out because of being unconstitutional. I must add
00:13:17.780 this. It's true that the federal regulations say that the attorney general does not provide the day-to-day
00:13:24.960 supervision of Jack Smith, but the AG does ensure that Jack Smith adheres to Justice Department protocols
00:13:32.600 and the AG can review major investigatory steps. So it's not a totally independent special counsel.
00:13:39.360 It's an inferior officer. And that's why I think the 11th Circuit is likely to overturn this.
00:13:43.940 But after the immunity decision, which I totally got wrong, I thought it was going to be much more
00:13:48.380 limited. And Mike Davis got it right. Who knows where the Supreme Court is going to go on this?
00:13:53.060 And the thing is, you're right that nobody joined Thomas in his concurrence raising this issue
00:13:57.020 about Jack Smith and whether he's an appropriate special counsel.
00:14:00.200 But one of the criticisms Thomas got for pointing this out was this wasn't raised in the immunity case.
00:14:05.960 So usually the Supreme Court won't opine on something that's not immediately before it and requiring them
00:14:10.300 to opine on it. It was sort of an extra add on. One of the reasons it was an extraordinary thing to
00:14:15.060 read. But the rest of the justices haven't tipped their hand at all. The fact that they didn't join him
00:14:20.560 in the concurrence doesn't surprise me at all because it wasn't before them. But I don't know that we're
00:14:25.160 able to say how they're going to decide this. But in any event, Mike, you tell me it's irrelevant
00:14:30.860 because Trump has dodged a serious bullet, legal bullet. He dodged an actual bullet pretty much
00:14:38.100 on Saturday. And this is this is huge that the obstruction piece of this case, forget the
00:14:45.200 withholding classified documents, the obstruction piece where he didn't turn over all the documents
00:14:49.280 when demanded was the most problematic of all the legal warfare against him. And it's for right now
00:14:57.560 gone. And if he does win in November, as you just predicted, all he has to do is pull that horse
00:15:03.160 back by the bridle and say, we're not pursuing this case anymore within the DOJ. And then it's
00:15:08.760 officially done. There'll be no appeal. Any appeal in process will be ended. It's truly over.
00:15:14.980 I would say this, that President Biden should be very happy that the Supreme Court and the Fisher case
00:15:22.480 ended those political persecutions of those January 6th defendants. I think President Biden should be
00:15:28.140 very happy. The Supreme Court said that the President of the United States is immune from
00:15:32.900 criminal prosecution for his official acts. And I think President Biden should be very happy
00:15:36.700 that Judge Eileen Cannon said that the special counsel is unconstitutional under both the appropriations
00:15:44.280 clause and the appointments clause. Because guess what? President Trump's going to be back in
00:15:49.480 office on January 20th. And Joe Biden is the biggest winner of these cases.
00:15:55.600 Donald Trump weighing in, telling Brett Baer, I'm thrilled that a judge had the courage and wisdom
00:16:00.000 to do this. This has big, big implications, not just for this case, but other cases as well. The
00:16:04.380 special counsel worked with everyone to try to take me down. This is a big, big deal. It only makes
00:16:09.100 this convention more positive. This will be an amazing week. My God, I mean, I think we can all agree
00:16:15.220 it's already been an amazing week. Let me ask you, Dave, Lawrence Tribe, you know, leftist
00:16:23.160 lawyer at Harvard and professor, and he is saying DOJ must appeal right away and then said an alternative
00:16:30.920 path would be for the DOJ to abandon the special counsel regulation and just refile the case without
00:16:37.280 a special counsel in D.C. Like go through a U.S. attorney, just refile the case in D.C. Or I guess
00:16:42.640 they could refile it in Florida, too. I'm assuming he doesn't like that jurisdiction because it would
00:16:47.200 go back to Judge Aileen Cannon, who he doesn't like. But even he says that would be optically
00:16:51.940 terrible and set a terrible precedent. Do you think that will happen? Democrats are so worried
00:16:58.260 about optics because from the beginning, Jack Smith could have filed this case in D.C., but they didn't
00:17:04.380 like the optics of that. They want to do it where the crimes allegedly occurred in the Southern
00:17:09.000 District of Florida. I thought that was a good move because if he filed it in D.C. and if they
00:17:12.540 go ahead and refile this in D.C., then I do think that Trump and his legal team would have
00:17:17.420 a valid claim that there's a venue problem here because the obstruction that's being alleged
00:17:21.620 occurred at Mar-a-Lago in South Florida. The illegal retention of documents really occurred
00:17:27.340 down there. And so I think it is possible they could refile this in D.C. under Merrick Garland and
00:17:33.180 the attorney general's office. But I think then they would be buried in venue arguments for months to
00:17:39.280 come. And then, of course, you're right. If Trump becomes president again, then this whole thing goes
00:17:42.920 away. You guys, I mean, I think this is the day we can officially say he did it. He did it, Mike.
00:17:49.540 He pulled the inside straight. Yes, there was a conviction in New York. He's not going to jail
00:17:53.400 for that. I just I show me otherwise he's not. Maybe they'll get a jail sentence. It'll be suspended.
00:17:57.900 Trump's not going to serve any real time on that. Georgia's gone for now and probably will stay gone
00:18:04.320 because it's going up in appeal, whether she was improperly left on the case, Fannie Willis, because
00:18:08.620 of her affair with Nathan Wade. An absolutely self-inflicted error that she never should have done.
00:18:14.940 I'm sure she's kicking herself and so are Democrats for such a stupid move in a case. And now January 6th 1.00
00:18:21.840 has been gutted by the immunity decision and the January 6th Supreme Court decision, not to mention
00:18:25.660 potentially this alien cannon decision, which could be persuasive. And the worst case of all for
00:18:30.220 Trump, Florida just went away. He did it. Mike Davis. He's he's Teflon Don. He he dodged the real
00:18:38.100 bullet. He dodged these legal bullets. I would make one clarification. President Trump has not been
00:18:43.160 convicted in New York yet. He has been found guilty by a jury. And I actually think that this
00:18:48.380 well, until the judge convicts in sentences and they the judge has moved back the date from back to
00:18:55.640 what was September 18th. I actually think there is a reasonable chance that Judge Mershon
00:19:00.120 declares a mistrial in that New York case because of the presidential immunity decision where they
00:19:06.440 they got evidence from President Trump's top White House staffers, co-picks, and then President Trump's
00:19:13.760 deputy chief of staff for operations. They got Madeline, I forgot her last name, but they they got
00:19:18.640 evidence from those two White House officials that is subject to presidential immunity and that the
00:19:25.160 Supreme Court made it made very clear in its decision that you can't use evidence that is
00:19:29.800 subject to presidential immunity that for that legal ground alone, there should be a mistrial.
00:19:35.460 Dave, what do you make of my assessment? Like he he fought as somebody famous once said he fought the
00:19:42.380 law, but the law did not win. It's my take on the famous face. It's incredible.
00:19:47.360 It is. Remember, it's it's not there was nothing nefarious about getting Judge Cannon as his judge.
00:19:54.540 That was just bad luck for Jack Smith. Jack Smith asked for this to go to the West Palm Beach
00:19:58.660 division that limited the number of judges. And once they got Judge Cannon, this case was never
00:20:02.960 going to be heard before the election. And then as far as the other cases, yeah, Fonnie Willis,
00:20:07.220 that was a self-inflicted wound there. The case in New York did happen. I don't have to disagree with
00:20:12.180 Mike. I think Judge Mershon is going to sentence him in September. But then I thought the strong
00:20:18.280 case in D.C., the election interference case, I thought that would go before the election, too.
00:20:22.100 And then the Supreme Court stepped in and said, no, not so fast. So, yeah, he has been lucky. And
00:20:27.700 sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Good gracious. What a time. Mike, Dave, thank you,
00:20:35.080 Dave. Enjoy your honeymoon and all of our best to your beautiful bride. She's a lucky woman.
00:20:40.560 When we come back, we turn to former President Trump surviving the assassination attempt at a
00:20:46.280 rally on Saturday. We have two former Secret Service security experts joining us to get into
00:20:52.460 exactly how this happened and how we're going to get to the bottom of it. And then the incredible
00:20:59.880 media meltdown.
00:21:01.360 Our nation today at a crossroads facing a moral dilemma less than 48 hours after the attempted
00:21:11.180 assassination of former President Donald Trump. It's a story, if we're honest, that we feared we
00:21:16.080 would have to report on one day and not just us. A lot of you wrote in to us about it. Some of our
00:21:20.480 friends in more right-leaning and honest media talked about it and then got ridiculed and ripped.
00:21:26.280 What happened in tiny Butler, Pennsylvania on Saturday evening threatens to undermine
00:21:30.860 everything we hold dear. There are serious questions about this tragedy that killed one,
00:21:36.760 injured others, including the former president and presumptive nominee of the Republican Party
00:21:42.440 in this presidential race, Donald Trump. An investigation into the security failures
00:21:46.680 is already underway on multiple levels, both internally at the Secret Service and now several
00:21:51.360 House and Senate committees are doing a deep dive in which there will be hearings and testimony that
00:21:56.820 is compelled of those involved. But we cannot ignore the unhinged rhetoric from politicians and yes,
00:22:02.740 some in the media around this event. We're going to look into all of that. But first,
00:22:07.840 I want to walk you through what we've learned about the attack. And thank you for joining us on our
00:22:11.720 Saturday evening live stream as things were unfolding. For those of you who missed it and would like to
00:22:16.360 watch it. It's posted on YouTube still under live. Here's what we know so far for sure. As Mr. Trump
00:22:23.700 delivered remarks, a would-be assassin managed to climb onto a rooftop that was about a football field
00:22:29.660 and a half away from him. Anywhere between 130 and 150 yards are the estimates. Separated a killer
00:22:36.440 from the former president of the United States. Mr. Trump almost died on Saturday. Almost died very
00:22:41.960 clearly. He almost got his head shot off on national television. That's what happened. Keep that in mind 0.58
00:22:49.600 as you read the media and their write-ups of this event. Eagle-eyed spectators actually noticed the
00:22:55.740 man. They noticed the civilian. He was not any sort of black outfit, bulletproof vest. He wasn't trying
00:23:01.520 to impersonate Secret Service. And they called out to law enforcement for help. You can hear the alarm in
00:23:06.840 their voices. And they're like, he's right there. He's right there looking for any law enforcement
00:23:11.060 unseen, which yes, was outside the Secret Service security perimeter, but within
00:23:15.680 eyesight of where the president was then speaking and couldn't find anybody.
00:23:23.220 However, eventually someone got the word because based on the video we're about to show you,
00:23:28.180 law enforcement did get involved moments hereafter, but dragged its feet. Watch this.
00:23:32.480 Look, they're all pointed. Yeah, someone's on top of the roof. Look, there he is right there.
00:23:41.900 Right there, you see him? He's laying down. You see him? Yeah, he's laying down.
00:23:52.260 What's happening?
00:23:52.940 Yeah, look, there he is. Because we have millions and millions of people in our country that-
00:24:06.040 Shooter's readjusting his body position. Getting comfortable in position.
00:24:10.460 Right up here, he's on the roof, he's right on. We have people that should not be here.
00:24:15.720 Right here, right on the roof.
00:24:16.600 It's much tougher than him.
00:24:18.360 They have to- Again, adjusting.
00:24:20.200 That video is horrifying. There's no other word for it. A killer lying in wait. The people down
00:24:28.180 below, these are middle-aged women, men. They all see it. If you watch the video, you'll see,
00:24:34.120 I don't know, maybe 10 who are looking at him, pointing, saying, there he is, there he is. And if
00:24:38.700 you look behind them, they are 15, 20 feet away from the back of the Trump crowd. How is that outside
00:24:46.960 the security perimeter, by the way? There appears to be little to no urgency from the people tasked
00:24:53.040 with protecting the former and possibly future president. How is it that for that amount of time
00:24:57.640 that we just saw on video, we don't know how long it went on prior to that. No one from law enforcement
00:25:04.000 swarmed the area, nevermind the rooftop. What's more, we've learned that one officer, local cop,
00:25:10.900 actually did confront the shooter. We believe it was in response to these civilians. Went up on the
00:25:17.020 roof, we're told, but retreated when the gunman pointed a rifle at him, which allowed the gunman
00:25:23.180 to then open fire, reportedly, immediately thereafter, on Mr. Trump and the crowd. It's truly
00:25:29.960 unbelievable. And yet the former president survived, perhaps only thanks to God, who I believe must have
00:25:37.000 been protecting him that day. There's no other logical explanation. A man was killed trying to
00:25:43.580 save his wife and his daughter, and it's horrific what happened to him. The leader of our country,
00:25:51.060 former and possibly next, was spared. We're going to show you a clip now. You will hear Mr. Trump
00:25:56.820 speaking. And then he slightly tilts his head to the side. And I do mean slightly. He was gesturing
00:26:04.400 toward the slides he had brought to show the illegal immigration problem off to his right.
00:26:11.020 And that is why he tilted his head ever so slightly. Shots ring out. He grabs at his right
00:26:17.120 ear. The time is 6.11 p.m., roughly six minutes into his speech. Watch. Take a look at what happened.
00:26:27.580 Look at this, an inch or two in the other direction, and we could be talking about the
00:26:32.880 unimaginable. Within seconds, his Secret Service detail would surround him. An image from the scene,
00:26:39.200 widely circulated over the weekend, shows a female agent here on screen left,
00:26:44.140 crouching down behind all the other agents who are protecting Trump. And it does appear
00:26:48.760 that she is frozen in fear. That's an assumption. We'll wait to hear her explanation about why she's
00:26:56.000 there. Were there concentric circles that you're supposed to form around the president? I don't know.
00:27:00.380 Doesn't look good. This is a woman who is trained to take a bullet for her protectee. 1.00
00:27:05.860 She appears to be the one leader who was unable to holster her weapon in separate video. According
00:27:11.140 to a published transcript from CNN, a female agent is also heard asking, what are we doing? What are we
00:27:15.700 doing? Where are we going? It is unclear whether that's the same agent as well. Listen here.
00:27:19.860 A male urgent agent is then heard instructing people to take the former president to a spare
00:27:44.820 limousine. Less than a minute after the first shots ring out, law enforcement confirms the
00:27:49.840 shooter's down, taken out by a sniper. And that brings us to the moment that will go down in
00:27:55.020 history. As the agents attempt to move him, Mr. Trump tells them to wait, wait. He doesn't know
00:28:01.380 whether there's a second shooter. By the way, neither do the Secret Service. And with blood dripping down
00:28:07.380 his face, he lifts his fist into the air, the same fist that just touched his bloody head where he took
00:28:16.260 a bullet that grazed his upper right outer ear and mouths the words fight over and over. Watch.
00:28:24.820 Trying to tell the crowd he was okay. They would be okay. We would be okay. He understood on some
00:28:44.440 internal level what they needed and what the rest of us needed. Who would have the presence of mind and
00:28:51.580 the courage to do that? I heard someone online. I can't forgive me. I can't remember where I heard
00:28:56.680 it. It was a podcast saying he reacted the way every man alive wishes and hopes and praise he would
00:29:04.960 react. God forbid they found themselves in that situation. I think that's right. Our country still
00:29:10.600 does value courage, bravery, resilience, temerity, strength. And it's one of the reasons people love
00:29:17.160 Trump. He's the embodiment of it. For our YouTube audience, if you haven't seen this, please go look
00:29:23.060 at this moment as Mr. Trump lifts his fist in the air with the American flag waving behind him.
00:29:29.920 Not for nothing, but he was shot at 6.11 p.m. A couple of people have sent this to me. 6.11 p.m.
00:29:38.300 You read Ephesians 6.11 in the Bible. It reads as follows in part. Put on the full armor of God
00:29:48.880 so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 6.11, he was shot and that's 6.11.
00:29:57.340 Listen to that. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's
00:30:03.420 schemes. I'm almost emotional reading it. It's just what happened to him and our country this weekend
00:30:10.240 is extremely grave and extremely important. And we are all so lucky it wasn't worse than it was.
00:30:21.180 We'll get into the victim of this attack and the disgusting attacks on him still. His memory,
00:30:27.560 50-year-old firefighter, father of two young girls who are grieving today along with his widow.
00:30:32.320 And they attack him for his politics, for a silly political joke he made online one time.
00:30:41.300 Where is their soul? Where are their hearts? Today, Mr. Trump is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin for
00:30:47.740 the opening of the Republican National Convention. He says he's tossed out his original speech and will
00:30:53.020 call for a new effort at national unity. Tucker Carlson has apparently spoken to the president
00:30:58.340 and said he's changed. He thinks he's changed. Taking a bullet in the face will do that to you.
00:31:05.220 In a statement released on Sunday, the former president also acknowledged it was God alone 0.94
00:31:09.320 who prevented the unthinkable from happening to him. He paid tribute to the other victims and said,
00:31:14.300 in this moment, it is more important than ever that we stand united. And he went on to say,
00:31:18.820 I truly love our country. He told the New York Post he is supposed to be dead today.
00:31:23.720 As for the man who tried to kill him, here's what we've learned. 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks was
00:31:29.460 identified by the FBI on Sunday. The feds say he was not known to the agency prior to the attempted
00:31:35.300 assassination. As you know, we normally do not name mass shooters on this program because they desire
00:31:40.600 infamy and we decline to help. We've made an exception given that this is a presidential
00:31:44.940 assassination. The name is already ubiquitous. The feds say there was no indication of mental health
00:31:50.600 issues, though. I've got to be honest, tough to believe. Let's wait. He had a limited social media
00:31:56.120 presence. Also interesting. His politics are unclear, but we're going to learn more about all
00:32:00.920 of that. State voting records show he was a registered Republican, but federal election
00:32:05.880 commission documents show a donor with the same name, age and address gave money to a democratic
00:32:11.240 fundraising group on January 20th, 2021, the day of President Biden's inauguration. All right,
00:32:15.340 I am. I am telling you this because the moronic left wing press has spent the past two days saying 0.98
00:32:21.380 he's a registered Republican. He's a Republican. You absolute inane idiots. Yeah, he seemed like a 0.98
00:32:28.600 big Donald Trump fan, didn't he? What are you saying? Like he he secretly was a Republican,
00:32:34.800 so we can't blame this on Democratic rhetoric. What is your point? He loved Trump. Is that what
00:32:41.900 he killed him out of love? Is that where we're going to go? I mean, like, just stop. Just stop
00:32:47.400 that. I don't understand the insanely stupid argument that is being made over that. And the 1.00
00:32:55.680 same outlets that are reporting he was a registered Republican are nine times out of 10 ignoring the
00:33:00.780 fact that he was making donations to the Democrats, at least this one. All right. So I don't know why he
00:33:06.840 registered Republican. I don't know why he donated to a Democrat group. I do know he shot Donald Trump
00:33:13.380 to just stop. Stop. CNN and The New York Times reporting that the man's father is a registered
00:33:21.100 libertarian. His mother is a registered Democrat. My mom's a registered Democrat, too. That doesn't
00:33:25.500 tell us what his politics are. Both parents are licensed professional counselors, which is sort of
00:33:30.340 interesting. According to state records, the shooter was from an affluent area. He used a gun that
00:33:34.940 had been legally purchased by his father. His father told the local press, I don't want to talk
00:33:41.580 until I know what the hell is going on. And I've spoken to law enforcement. The shooter has been
00:33:46.000 described as a loner, was apparently rejected by his high school's rifle team. Here's a former
00:33:51.740 classmate. I didn't have any interaction with him, but he was like a kid that was always alone. He was
00:34:00.160 always bullied every day. He was just an outcast. Yeah. I mean, he would sit alone at lunch. I mean,
00:34:09.820 he was just an outcast. And you know how kids are nowadays. So they're going to see someone like
00:34:14.980 that and they're going to target him because they think it's funny or whatever. So it's the best way I
00:34:19.460 can describe it. It's honestly kind of sad. Like, I don't want to say this is what provoked it, but
00:34:26.540 you never know. And you said he was a loner? Yeah. I want to say he was a loner more because he was
00:34:34.620 just, he was quiet, but like he was just bullied. Like he was bullied so much, so much. He was just
00:34:42.720 made fun of, I guess, for the way he dressed or his appearance. How did he dress? Like they were
00:34:49.060 just saying jeans. He'd wear hunting outfits sometimes. He would always wear a mask even
00:34:57.340 after COVID. He wore a mask. The shooter did belong to a local gun club, which has a 200 yard
00:35:05.000 rifle range. Remember, he fired at former President Trump from less than that. Various news outlets have
00:35:10.700 reported that he had explosive material found both in his car and at his home. And there are some
00:35:17.720 reports that law enforcement believes he may have expected to survive the shooting and unleash further
00:35:22.560 carnage. Now, as we continue to piece together what went wrong, we are faced with a choice.
00:35:28.120 Who do we want to be as a nation? Perhaps we can glean the answer from another tragic event
00:35:33.800 at another time when our nation seemed irretrievably broken. On the night Abraham Lincoln was
00:35:40.040 assassinated. He wore a wool and silk line coat. It was the same coat he had worn just a month prior
00:35:46.400 to deliver his second inaugural address. Inside are stitched the words, one country, one destiny.
00:35:55.500 Are we one or are we not? Are we worth saving or aren't we? Do we want what's best for our nation,
00:36:04.220 for our children, or don't we? Is this the country we want them to grow up in?
00:36:10.860 Let's hope for all of our sakes we can find our way back to one country, one nation, under God,
00:36:18.240 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Can't help feeling that bit by bit, these horrific
00:36:25.400 events, as awful as they are, may eventually, not immediately, push us closer to that. Just don't
00:36:32.240 think that the reasonable, normal American citizen wants to live like this. Joining me now,
00:36:41.400 we bring you three experts to analyze the Trump assassination attempt on Saturday. Sean Parnell
00:36:46.480 is a decorated combat veteran and host of Battleground with Sean Parnell. Sean has been on the program
00:36:51.900 many times. He was within feet of Trump at the rally on Saturday and has spoken, had spoken on stage
00:36:57.820 earlier that afternoon. Charles Marino, former Secret Service agent and author of Terrorists on
00:37:03.820 the Border and in our country. And John Spears, a special forces sniper and sniper trainer for law
00:37:10.260 enforcement and military and author of Warlord of the Unraveling. Guys, welcome all of you to the show.
00:37:16.620 Thank you so much for being here. Sean, you were one of the first people I thought of on Saturday. I
00:37:20.220 knew you'd be there. Tell us what you experienced and what stands out to you now, 48 hours out.
00:37:26.280 So much, Megan. And your intro is fantastic. And you mentioned spirituality and faith and religion.
00:37:32.580 And let me tell you, I've been on the stage with President Trump five times now. And from the moment
00:37:38.480 that I walked into that rally, and people can call me crazy or whatever, but there was something
00:37:43.860 different. There was something in the air. And the reason why I know this is because on June 10,
00:37:49.740 2006 in Afghanistan, and I've not really told this story before, I was blown up and wounded pretty
00:37:55.360 seriously, fractured my skull, got blown up by a rocket-propelled grenade. And I was unconscious,
00:38:02.140 but I felt something. I didn't know if I had already died or what, but I felt like something was
00:38:07.680 beckoning me to get back in the fight, something like a spiritual presence that really felt like my
00:38:12.480 grandfather, who I lost the day before I went to Afghanistan. When I was on that stage speaking,
00:38:18.440 I felt that same damn thing. And people for 48 hours have been sending me images of the flag because 0.95
00:38:28.900 I guess the wind had blown it and kind of got it tangled, but sent me images of the flag from
00:38:34.960 different angles, just convinced that there was something going on. It was surreal, call it an omen,
00:38:40.780 say it was something spiritual. I don't know, looked like an angel. And they fixed the flag moments
00:38:48.400 before Trump came out on that stage. And again, I just talked to the president 30 minutes prior before
00:38:54.800 he walked out, but there was something in the air. I mean, again, people call me crazy or whatever,
00:39:00.580 but there was something different about that day. And you're right. President Trump,
00:39:06.600 he called for this. Oh, Hey, you know, you got my favorite immigration graphic. You know,
00:39:11.140 I go off script. I tell my people like, I hate this teleprompter stuff. And they get the graphic
00:39:15.400 up there. He looks once cause he's got these screens behind him. It was right there with him.
00:39:20.700 And he looks twice and then six shots ring out. And I could hear the bullets, just the trajectory of
00:39:28.100 the bullets. I could hear them going supersonic cracking through the air right above my wife and I,
00:39:31.980 and I saw president Trump grab his ear. A second later, the secret service was on him. And then
00:39:36.740 I heard thump, thump of the counter sniper team. Then another couple of rounds, which was almost
00:39:40.740 simultaneous. And those rounds hit people directly behind me. It was a crazy chaotic day,
00:39:48.020 but I wanted to bring up the faith component because I don't care what people say, think fully
00:39:55.380 everyone has different beliefs in this country. And we welcome that, but there was something in the
00:39:59.880 air that day and it felt different. Wow. I believe you. And you were not only so close to the
00:40:07.360 president, Sean, but you were close as I understand it to some of the, the other victims who were hit.
00:40:14.580 The, the man, uh, who died is, uh, named Corey Comparatori, age 50, husband, father of two.
00:40:23.260 And, um, his daughter, Alison posted, uh, on, I think it's Facebook today saying in part, he was
00:40:32.840 the best dad a girl could ever ask for. Uh, my sister and I never needed for anything. He could
00:40:39.140 talk and make friends with anyone, which he was doing all day yesterday and loved every minute of
00:40:42.960 it. He was a man of God, loved Jesus fiercely, and also looked after our church and our members
00:40:49.580 as family. He died a real life superhero. She says, the media is not going to tell you how quickly
00:40:54.880 he threw my mom and me to the ground. They are not going to tell you that he shielded my body
00:40:59.860 from the bullet that came at us. He loved his family. He truly loved us enough to take a real
00:41:05.520 bullet for us. And I want nothing more than to cry on him now and tell him, thank you. Oh God,
00:41:12.480 this is hard to read. This poor young woman. I don't know how old she and her sister are. They look
00:41:17.000 like they're maybe in their mid to late teens, um, firefighter already in public service and,
00:41:23.240 um, gone too soon, age 50, just for going to a political rally to support a candidate.
00:41:30.380 He jumped on his family, Sean. I want to ask you what you saw in terms of those around you
00:41:34.260 and what your instincts were in terms of protecting those around you. There's no, it's no accident.
00:41:39.200 You've been in combat. Yeah. By hundreds of times in firefights. And I'll tell you something that
00:41:46.260 we often talk about the exceptional nature of this country and the fact that we are indeed an
00:41:50.820 exceptional nation, but we're made exceptional, not because necessarily of our political leaders,
00:41:57.100 although some are inspirational and great, larger than life. Certainly Trump was that day,
00:42:01.800 but our nation is exceptional because of the people. And Corey was one of those people. And there
00:42:06.780 were so many patriots that day that stepped up to help other people. You know, the pathway to a
00:42:15.000 meaningful life is acts of service through others with nothing, no expectation of anything in
00:42:20.700 return. And the people at that rally that day stepped up Megan in a way that I'd never seen
00:42:25.840 before. And when the shots rang out, I hear the rounds crack overhead and everybody in the crowd
00:42:34.680 just kind of froze for a second. And I heard people saying they're just fireworks. And I said,
00:42:40.780 they're not fireworks. It's a sniper. Everybody get down. Everybody get down. And people looked
00:42:45.300 at me like I was crazy. I already had my wife. Been lots of been in lots of firefights in my day, 1.00
00:42:50.940 but I've never been in one with my wife. But I got her down in the prone on the ground flat. 1.00
00:42:57.240 And there was a, uh, my friend, JD Longo is the mayor of Slippery Rock Marine combat fed his wife
00:43:02.320 was pregnant. And to my right was 95 year old Mrs. Fogle, whose son is languishing in a Russian prison
00:43:09.600 has been completely ignored by the Biden administration. Everybody froze. And in that
00:43:15.040 moment, I, one thought was going through my head and that was trying to ascertain the position of
00:43:20.640 the shooter. And within seconds it was two, one of two locations, water tower or building. And then
00:43:29.440 immediately, immediately I checked myself and I said, there's no way because the secret service would
00:43:36.540 almost certainly have those places on lockdown. And the next question was, you know, you have to
00:43:40.540 ascertain the location of the shooter to figure out whether or not you can move people and how you move
00:43:45.880 people, right? How you use cover and concealment to get people out safely. Because the reality was
00:43:52.180 secret service had their mission. They were on the present, right? You had local law enforcement,
00:43:56.420 SWAT and CERT teams that were on looking for an on the shooter. Some were helping with casualty
00:44:00.680 evacuation. But the truth is they were stretched way too thin. And the real question was you had
00:44:06.120 30,000 plus people there, one exit. How the hell do you get those people out of there? And when you
00:44:12.280 get shot at for the first time, everybody has this experience at some point you sit down and you say to 0.99
00:44:19.940 yourself, like, holy shit, someone just tried to kill me. That's never met me before. They tried to wipe 0.99
00:44:29.140 out everything that I was, that I am now, everything that I ever will be. And it takes a long time to
00:44:36.980 wrap your mind around the existential enormity of that. And, you know, not everybody in the crowd,
00:44:43.500 but I'm sure there had been people in the crowd that had been shot at before, but there were likely
00:44:46.840 30,000 people in that crowd that were experiencing something like that in that moment and needed to
00:44:52.280 figure out a way to get them out of there. But, and the last thing I'll say is this, because I didn't
00:44:58.260 see Trump fully stand because the secret service was around him, but I heard the crowd erupt in
00:45:02.740 cheers. And I knew that president Trump had showed himself to the audience, but what does it say
00:45:08.560 about the strength of the people whose life was in danger? And by the way, we were operating under
00:45:13.760 the assumption. And when talking with the law enforcement, as we were helping with evacuation
00:45:16.780 and helping with the casualties and helping with wheelchairs, we were operating under the assumption
00:45:20.800 that there were two shooters because there were two big pieces of machinery behind president
00:45:24.680 Trump and a hydraulic line on the one behind him had popped and, and, and, and broken. So we thought
00:45:30.580 there might be another shooter out there, but every single person in that crowd stayed there with
00:45:35.340 them. They didn't rush. They didn't stampede. They didn't hurt anybody. And damn it like that right
00:45:40.420 there is what makes this country exceptional, not the evil shooter who tried to do something terrible 0.99
00:45:45.240 that will forever have altered the trajectory of this nation. But the people in that crowd that day
00:45:50.480 supported one another. And to me, that's a major part of this story could not have said it better
00:45:55.920 myself, Sean. That's exactly right. You know, it's the old Mr. Rogers look for the helpers and the
00:46:00.500 helpers were everywhere that day from the emergency doctor who tried to save the life of this poor man
00:46:07.160 as he was dying and then realized it was not possible to those who didn't cause a panic. If they had
00:46:14.800 caused a panic and, and, you know, run for their lives and there'd been some sort of a massive herd
00:46:19.120 trying to get out, people always get hurt and sometimes killed in those scenarios. And that
00:46:23.480 is also to Mr. Trump's credit for refusing to exit that stage until he held up his fist
00:46:28.160 to show everyone he was okay. And reminding them what the mission is here, right? To fight,
00:46:34.260 fight for what you believe. That's leadership. Megan, that's leadership. That that's what it
00:46:38.100 means to be a leader. You know, it, it, to show people to stand up in that moment where the rubber
00:46:43.080 meets the road to show them that you are there with them. And in that moment, Trump exhibited
00:46:48.480 the leadership that this country desperately needs. And within 12 hours of someone trying to kill him,
00:46:54.840 the guys out there saying, no, we need to unite. We need to come. Think about that.
00:46:59.660 That's leadership. And Trump proved it on that stage.
00:47:02.600 And by the way, uh, you know, a credit to all of those who helped those in the crowd who were older,
00:47:08.720 who were scared, who didn't know what to do. And, uh, I've got to give a shout out to,
00:47:14.020 you know, my, some of my colleagues in the press who were there, the New York times featured an
00:47:18.940 interview with a guy named Doug Mills today, their photographer. And that man did a great job
00:47:22.960 of taking the pictures that we continue to show. They are iconic photos. And he talks about how
00:47:28.140 he was scared. He's covered presidents back to Reagan and, uh, he's never been present for such
00:47:35.000 a thing. And yet he continued to press his shutter. And that's the reason we have the images we have.
00:47:40.420 And we know some of the trajectories of the bullets. I mean, it had to have been very scary
00:47:44.380 for the photogs in particular, who are within a couple of feet of the president, but did their
00:47:49.660 jobs and documented true history in the making. We're going to take a quick break and we will be
00:47:54.740 back. Sean, thank you. Chuck and John stay with us. And we're going to start the next segment,
00:47:57.820 uh, so much to digest with them on where we went so wrong.
00:48:01.940 This just breaking from Reuters. This is their reporting that the Trump campaign will announce
00:48:11.100 its pick for Donald Trump's vice presidential running mate at around 4 30 PM Eastern today
00:48:16.500 during the Republican national convention in Milwaukee, citing a source familiar with the
00:48:21.740 matter. We'll see whether that pans out, but, uh, if that's true, we only have a couple of hours
00:48:26.280 to wait for what it's worth. Uh, we know that at least Marco Rubio, JD Vance, Doug Burgum and Glenn
00:48:35.380 Youngkin are all in Milwaukee. I can't, there's a lot, there's a lot going on today. Are you feeling 1.00
00:48:42.880 it too? Um, and one of the things that's going on going to go on today, tomorrow and in the weeks
00:48:50.180 to come is an investigation into how this happened. How did this happen? Yes. We're looking into the
00:48:56.840 shooter and they're trying to get his phone unlocked right now with court permission. Um,
00:49:01.160 the FBI is trying to see what's on there. That's critical. It doesn't look like so far they found
00:49:05.700 any sort of a manifesto, something that would make it obvious. He had a very limited social media
00:49:10.920 presence. He was on one of the lesser known, uh, social media companies, and there was very little
00:49:17.220 on there and he hadn't been using it for months. Again, we reported to the, uh, at the top of the
00:49:21.640 hour, he's not known to have had mental health problems though. Again, put an asterisk on that,
00:49:26.500 right? We'll see. We'll see about that. I mean, clearly anybody who does this to innocent civilians
00:49:31.520 and tries to assassinate a president has got some mental issues. That doesn't mean they're legally insane, 0.65
00:49:36.740 uh, but we'll find out. And they're trying to unlock that phone, which will be a treasure trove of
00:49:42.100 information. And I have pretty high confidence they'll be able to do it. But at the meantime,
00:49:46.420 we need to figure out how the secret service went wrong and local law enforcement went wrong.
00:49:51.680 Obviously there was a catastrophic failure. And here with me to help in that analysis is Charles
00:49:58.040 Marino, former secret service agent and author of terrorists on the border and in our country.
00:50:02.560 And John Spears, special forces sniper and sniper trainer for law enforcement and military and author
00:50:07.920 of warlord of the unraveling guys. Thank you again for being here. So Chuck is a former secret
00:50:13.680 service guy. Let me start with you. Can I ask you a question? We were just talking with Sean about how
00:50:18.600 a lot of the crowd looks stunned. Some, um, went down immediately to protect themselves or their
00:50:24.760 family, cover their family members. President Trump one second, it took him to go down. Is that part of
00:50:31.180 the training when you have a president, you know, by the secret service, like you hear gunshots?
00:50:36.160 Cause I just don't think, I don't know if it's a human instinct as soon as you hear it
00:50:39.720 to drop down as quickly as he did. Yeah. If you actually listen closely,
00:50:44.640 Megan, you can hear the agents as they're responding to cover him, yelling at him to get
00:50:50.920 down. And the reason why they're telling him to get down is because there's armor there on that stage
00:50:57.360 behind that stars and stripes pipe and drape. So they're, they want him to immediately get behind
00:51:03.220 that and then pile their bodies on top of his to give him the protection. That's that inner ring
00:51:09.840 of the concentric rings of security that you were talking about. That's the last line of defense for
00:51:15.940 the secret service. They trained for a whole host of scenarios, including the worst case scenario that
00:51:22.320 we saw yesterday, the attempted assassination. So there's a lot of training there, but the work
00:51:28.840 of the secret service, the efforts are put in on the front end, which is why we send agents out
00:51:35.380 to do protective advance of sites prior to any protectees going there. That is to be on the
00:51:42.100 proactive side and to identify and mitigate threats like the building that the shooter ultimately got
00:51:49.120 on top of. The secret service is responsible for creating the overall security plan. So whether we're
00:51:56.580 talking about the inner, the middle or the outer ring of security, they own that they are responsible
00:52:03.680 for coordinating that they are, are responsible for working closely with state and local law
00:52:09.660 enforcement who are supporting them to make sure that the plans are implemented effectively. And that
00:52:17.240 is where we see the gap. If this outer perimeter was where the rooftop was, and we know that that's the
00:52:23.220 case, the secret service doesn't get a pass by saying, well, that was outside the perimeter and
00:52:27.240 we handed that over to local Pennsylvania state troopers or local law enforcement. They're also
00:52:31.920 responsible for that too. That's exactly right. Especially since that building is naturally going
00:52:38.380 to come up to the attention of the counter snipers. So it's going to fall within the security plan and
00:52:45.320 only being, you know, 125 yards away with a direct line of sight to the stage. That's just outside that
00:52:54.240 middle ring of security. So absolutely, you're going to have your attention drawn to it as an agent,
00:53:00.840 as you're standing on the stage where the president's going to stand and you look out and you see that
00:53:05.980 elevated threat there. So you've got to go out as an agent and make sure that in your overall security
00:53:12.360 plan, you are drawing attention to that building, to local police and making sure that you are helping
00:53:19.100 them implement a plan to post that building, to secure it, to put somebody on the roof, whatever
00:53:24.920 way you need to do it, you need to make sure nobody had access to that building. And that's where we see
00:53:29.900 the fail. Anytime you see agents having to respond the way they did within that inner circle, that means
00:53:36.820 something failed in the overall security plan and failed catastrophically, which we of course
00:53:43.640 saw with our own eyes. So what have these reports Chuck that, you know, we, we showed the video
00:53:49.680 earlier of all of the people, the civilians on the ground saying he's right there. You can tell it's
00:53:54.880 not a sharp shooter shooter. He's got, you know, tan shirt and white pants, or maybe it's the reverse.
00:53:59.780 He's keeps moving his body to readjust. Like he's getting comfortable. I mean, you can just tell
00:54:03.720 even I, as a lay person can see, this is not a security official. And these lay people themselves
00:54:08.460 were very clued into this guy did not belong up there and appeared to be a threat. Maybe they saw
00:54:12.420 the rifle. It's just, you don't hear them say that during the clip, if I recall correctly.
00:54:17.080 So what of this report that they were the ones who saw my God, the guys up there. And then I don't
00:54:23.200 know if local law enforcement heard them say that or local law enforcement was already on it. They
00:54:28.480 certainly didn't appear to be already on it. And that they went up there and this guy turned his
00:54:33.100 rifle on them and the guy went back down the ladder and then started shooting. Maybe I've
00:54:38.580 watched too much TV, but in my head, as this plays out, of course it shouldn't have been allowed in the
00:54:44.220 first place. But once you're up there as a cop and you see a guy with an AR-15, you don't go back
00:54:50.220 down the ladder. But what's right. Tell me what's real. Yeah, look, the threat should have been engaged
00:54:55.600 right there. I'm convinced the shooter was on a suicide mission as he was making his way to the
00:55:01.220 building. If he had been confronted by law enforcement, the shooting would have started
00:55:05.520 between him and the law enforcement officers. I think the fact that he made it to the roof
00:55:10.140 and was spotted by a police officer up that ladder and no action was taken is really dereliction of
00:55:16.600 duty, if true. But the reporting of a suspicious person with a weapon started much sooner. So it tells
00:55:23.220 me that amongst the investigation, we're going to find that there was a significant gap in
00:55:28.280 communication because if the president's detail had known that there was a suspect armed who could
00:55:35.600 not be found by local law enforcement within the area, then you would not bring the former president
00:55:41.180 to the stage. You would actually keep him in the armored car until the situation was resolved.
00:55:47.480 So it tells me there's a communication breakdown. But as far as the investigations that are going to come
00:55:54.460 out of this, Megan, I can tell you, it's going to expand well beyond just what happened at that
00:56:01.840 site. You're going to see people looking at the HR hiring practices of the Secret Service.
00:56:08.860 You're going to see them looking at training. You're going to look at them looking at operations
00:56:13.560 and resourcing. Was the former President Trump detailed given all the resources that they needed to
00:56:20.340 match the threat level? They're really going to be under the microscope. And there's no way to
00:56:24.300 sugarcoat it. They've got a very, very rough road ahead. And rightfully so.
00:56:29.360 All those questions we're going to get into here. And yes, I agree. I mean, just on what we've heard
00:56:34.360 so far, there are real questions about whether he was adequately staffed. And let's just be honest
00:56:38.800 about five foot five women standing in front of a six foot three man as his protector. It's absurd. 0.93
00:56:45.120 It's not a question of sexism. My God, this is a joke. You don't put a five foot five woman in front 1.00
00:56:51.320 of a six foot three man as his protector. The headshot was right there. Had there been another
00:56:55.780 shooter, it would have been easy to take him out. I mean, the circle around President Trump was
00:56:59.740 exposed to had a massive flaw in it. This is later when they were getting him into the car. And here's
00:57:04.540 the one woman who can't reholster her weapon. Again, I hate to be so critical because I can't 0.98
00:57:10.380 holster a weapon, but I am not working as Secret Service. Let me just bring in John because you're a
00:57:16.560 former sniper. And John, all credit to the sniper for taking out the shooter quickly. I'm sure this
00:57:22.760 is not an easy thing to do. But a lot of people are wondering, if you're the sniper, I guess he would
00:57:28.260 be called a counter sniper, the guy up there working on behalf of the good guys. Why wouldn't that guy
00:57:34.020 have noticed another man on a rooftop 150 yards away, not even? Does he have an obligation to do
00:57:42.400 something before and to notice this before shooting starts? We can answer all of that pretty easily
00:57:51.320 by applying rational knowledge about how these public venue operations are carried out. Right now,
00:58:00.020 what's going on is there are two prevailing narratives, not even 72 hours after the failure
00:58:06.440 at the event. And these two narratives are very destructive to the country. One is that the
00:58:15.760 factory building about 125 yards from the venue podium where President Trump was speaking, that that
00:58:24.760 building was somehow outside the security perimeter. And we can deconstruct that. That's absolutely false.
00:58:31.860 The other narrative that is still prevailing is that the reason there's some perceived delay in the
00:58:41.000 counter sniper successfully engaging the shooter is that there was some order from Secret Service at a higher
00:58:49.000 level to not shoot, or that there are policies or procedures in place that keep them from responding to a
00:58:57.860 threat unless they're a threat unless they receive permission. And both of those narratives that are still
00:59:04.200 persisting are very harmful to the country. The answers behind why those things aren't true may not
00:59:13.960 necessarily be complementary to the local law enforcement involved, but it's way less damaging than letting the
00:59:22.960 country believe that any of those things that happen were purposeful or or or purposeful negligence because
00:59:30.960 that is absolutely not what happened. Yes, because just to just to add to that, there was a report from
00:59:37.040 a woman named Susan Crabtree. She's the White House and National Political Correspondent for Real Clear
00:59:42.740 Politics. And she citing a source in the Secret Service community has reported quite a few things. And one of them
00:59:50.840 is that it it is not protocol for Secret Service to shoot until after the target has shot first. And then NBC News
01:00:04.420 came out this morning and reported as follows. The roof, this is again, citing a Secret Service, I believe,
01:00:11.880 source. They say this roof was a well-known high priority vulnerability. It had been identified a day before
01:00:18.820 during a security walkthrough. The counter sniper team, two people were on site and they said counter
01:00:27.340 snipers do not need permission to shoot prior to engaging a suspect and said protocols here were not
01:00:36.600 followed. Now, I don't know what that means, but what do you take away from that, John?
01:00:40.180 Rules for use of deadly physical force never require a threat to fire first before returning
01:00:51.440 force to end that threat. That simply does not exist. That's completely false. I don't want to speak
01:00:58.820 about specific policies or procedures of any agency, but I mean, is a general principle rules for use of
01:01:09.320 deadly physical force is that a threat is evident, that they have the intent, the means, and the
01:01:16.280 opportunity to present that kind of deadly threat. And a person who's not supposed to be where they're
01:01:25.320 observed with a weapon, and of course, as a lawyer yourself, you understand what it means to evince
01:01:33.020 a deadly intent. Uh, that requires no level of authorization at any higher level. Uh, sworn
01:01:41.180 officer. Does that mean this guy, this sniper didn't see him? Like I got to imagine your secret
01:01:47.040 service sniper. You're up there. You see this guy with an AR 15, not in any sort of law enforcement
01:01:53.560 gear. And presumably, you know, where your fellow law enforcement officers are stationed on nearby roofs
01:01:58.100 and you don't, it does, it has to mean he didn't see him, doesn't it? Unless he just misunderstood the
01:02:04.860 threat. I will provide you what is likely the explanation for the events that we saw. Um,
01:02:14.420 you know, having spent 20 years working with law enforcement, special operations, snipers, and public
01:02:20.840 venue support, uh, for SWAT, uh, I can tell you what is most likely what happened. Part of this starts
01:02:29.120 with the fact, believe it or not, that secret service is such a professional organization
01:02:35.840 that demonstrates such a high level of respect for local agencies that they work with. So it's very
01:02:43.960 uncommon for secret service to work with a local SWAT counter snipers and micromanage them or over
01:02:52.440 instruct them, right? Most likely what happened is they said, okay, that factory building, you local
01:03:02.100 sniper counter sniper team are going to occupy secure and take that building as your overwatch position as
01:03:09.960 part of the operational plan. Check. What they are unlikely to say is, Hey guys, you're going to
01:03:18.120 observe from the roof, right? You're not going to go inside the building and try and observe and control
01:03:24.960 the scene. Right. You know, you're not going to set up an area where you have dead space where you can't
01:03:31.520 visually access your area of responsibility. Right. I mean, we know it's a hot day, but you're not going to
01:03:38.020 do that. Right. I mean, secret service, uh, they're, they're the highest level of professionals,
01:03:43.920 just like about all of the federal agencies I've ever worked with. And they don't go into a local
01:03:50.260 scene and micromanage like that. So it's what we call, there's a lot of implied tasks and implied
01:03:57.860 competence working with the local agencies. So I can definitely, is that possible that there was a local
01:04:05.180 law enforcement officer in that building responsible for that building who just didn't secure the roof?
01:04:17.580 Um, I won't tell you how I know that, but I will leave it that my conjecture based on
01:04:24.660 knowledge and experiences that there was a basic lack of tactical acumen. And that is most likely what
01:04:32.880 happened, which is why you do not see a counter sniper team on that building.
01:04:40.400 Wow. Chuck, your reaction to that, that, that they just local law enforcement was supposed to cover the
01:04:48.380 building. They didn't. And secret service may have been just too deferential to local law enforcement
01:04:52.680 in their expected expertise. Yeah. So, um, to the point I made earlier, uh, that would still be
01:05:01.660 unacceptable and fall back to the secret service because as the overseer and creator of the plan,
01:05:07.740 you're responsible to make sure anything that you're requesting, especially at a special, uh,
01:05:13.020 interest location like that building, that those things are implemented. So if it's possible that a
01:05:19.300 police officer or two were assigned to that building, uh, and they didn't show up and they didn't do what
01:05:24.440 was asked and it was identified as a significant threat to the protectee, then that's still a
01:05:30.800 problem. As far as the use of force curriculum, um, it's actually broader for the secret service
01:05:37.440 while they're conducting their protective mission. There is no policy in the secret service while
01:05:43.100 conducting protection that says you have to wait to be fired upon first. Um, that's absolute nonsense.
01:05:49.860 So you have free reign to do what's needed if there's an identifiable threat. Um, so that goes
01:05:57.520 back to the communication as to whether or not permission was sought. I don't know about that.
01:06:03.180 However, there needn't be permission sought. If there was a threat, an imminent threat that was
01:06:08.440 identified, the counter snipers are clear to take that out. Chuck, do you think that the counter
01:06:15.440 sniper, you know, the one that we've continued to see on the top of the other rooftop, maybe my team
01:06:19.200 can lay in some graphics here and some videos so we can see what we're talking about. Um,
01:06:23.640 was that a secret service guy or was that a Pennsylvania guy? It was a hybrid. Um, you had,
01:06:30.800 you had two special operations teams there. You had the counter snipers that you see,
01:06:35.740 and then you have the counter assault team that you saw come to the stage heavily armored with the
01:06:42.260 helmets on. That was also a hybrid. So what you have is a secret service component. You had a two man
01:06:48.800 team on the counter assault team. You had a split two more, two man team on the counter sniper team,
01:06:54.340 and they were supplemented by either local and state, uh, law enforcement.
01:07:00.260 So we don't know the guy who actually shot the shooter. We don't know whether that was
01:07:05.800 a federal agent or a local agent. We don't.
01:07:09.400 Hmm. And we don't know why he didn't shoot him prior to the shooter beginning his shots.
01:07:18.220 We don't go ahead. John saying he's got his finger in the air. What? Yeah.
01:07:23.860 Well, it's again, helping to deconstruct these, these two, uh, terrible narratives that are out
01:07:29.800 there. You know, right now, the biggest thing that we have to fight is, is this, uh, terribly
01:07:36.520 destructive idea that there was conspiracy or that law enforcement at any level was waiting to seek
01:07:44.920 permission to engage a threat or something, uh, like that. Chuck alluded to it earlier or flatly said
01:07:52.080 it. The problem with these interagency operations almost always comes down to unreliable
01:08:01.540 intraoperative communication. So, uh, I am revealing no source known only to me. I am,
01:08:13.060 I am betraying no confidence from people, uh, on the scene who have spoken to me of which there have
01:08:19.880 been several who have been students of mine over the years who are in that factual job, uh, and we're
01:08:26.900 there. I'm betraying nothing. Uh, this morning secret service has already in a polite way introduced the
01:08:35.180 idea that there's a local law enforcement failure that contributed to this. One of the local chief law
01:08:43.160 enforcement officers already revealed these, these issues, um, that, uh, the counter snipers assigned to the
01:08:56.120 building probably saw the shooter access the roof, but weren't able to do anything about it, that they
01:09:03.720 contacted patrol on the ground. And, you know, this has already been revealed by one of the local chief
01:09:10.820 law enforcement officers is that one patrol officer was forced to heft another officer from a position to
01:09:20.200 access the roof to see the shooter. And before that officer could engage the shooter, he fell there,
01:09:27.920 there was no ladder involved. So, so that's already been revealed and out in the media. We know that's
01:09:33.420 the case. It's just what Chuck was talking about that the communication problems between these agencies
01:09:40.920 that are kind of thrown together, uh, uh, it's very difficult. So what I saw of the videos of the
01:09:49.860 counter sniper who successfully identified in very, very rapidly engaged the shooter was that he didn't
01:10:00.320 have, uh, audio communication to guide him onto the threat. You see him take his eye out of the optic
01:10:08.500 to get visual access to the scene and then get back on the optic and immediately drove that optic to the
01:10:17.820 threat. And, you know, as evidenced by the audio, the shooter, unfortunately got any shots off,
01:10:24.500 but the threat was eliminated by that counter sniper is faster, faster than any other human could have
01:10:32.340 ever done. It was, it was amazing. Keep going. Yes. The problem was with the interoperative communication
01:10:40.960 and having those counter sniper teams aware of the fact that there was a threat on the roof. And,
01:10:48.100 and the other thing that probably in many of us have been in that experience before the other thing
01:10:53.720 that likely added to a delay was the counter snipers knew that at the factory building, that that's being
01:11:01.980 occupied by good guys, by another counter sniper team. And there was most likely a delay that was due to
01:11:10.480 what we would call deconfliction, right? It takes some amount of time to visually acquire what you're
01:11:17.860 trying to find, to process it and say, Hey, who's on the roof? Is that a bad guy or is that a good guy?
01:11:26.240 And that deconfliction and that extra amount of time, uh, you know, was a human and a systems error,
01:11:35.120 you know, very much a systems error that, you know, it, when we look at failure of multi-agency
01:11:42.700 operations, uh, and critical incident failures in law enforcement, the, the inability to have good
01:11:51.600 interoperative communication between the different elements is always a leading cause that's identified
01:11:58.680 in the after action. Now, Chuck, do you agree? Am I wrong on that? No, stand by, stand by. I want to,
01:12:04.340 I want to tell you the report to which John is referring. Um, the local Pennsylvania sheriff
01:12:09.100 defended the armed officer who encountered the would-be Trump assassin on the rooftop moments
01:12:13.500 before the shooting, claiming it was the right call to retreat after the gunman pointed the weapon
01:12:18.260 at him. Butler County Sheriff Michael Sloop confirmed Monday that a local officer made contact
01:12:22.800 with crooks after being hoisted up to the roof by another officer, but fled when the sniper pointed
01:12:29.620 his AR style assault rifle at the officer. Quote, I would have done the same thing. Absolutely.
01:12:35.000 Said the sheriff quote, all I know is the officer had both hands on the roof to get up on the roof,
01:12:39.280 never made it because the shooter had turned toward the officer and rightfully and smartly the officer
01:12:44.400 let go. So was being hoisted, got a gun pointed at him, let go to save his own life. And then
01:12:52.520 the shooting proceeded, um, by the bad guy as follows, as we all saw. Why are you shaking
01:12:58.000 your head? No, John. Well, that, I mean, that's very accurate, but at the heart of all of this,
01:13:03.220 the root cause is, uh, very inadequate assets being dedicated to president Trump and the campaign.
01:13:13.820 That is the basic discussion now. So let me go with you on that, Chuck, because you mentioned it and I,
01:13:20.440 we've got to, we've got to look at the head of the secret service and this, uh, look, I have
01:13:25.380 absolutely no pardon for the female secret service officers who looked incompetent. They looked 1.00
01:13:31.480 incompetent in the video that we've all seen. Um, not necessarily on the stage. The one woman there 0.99
01:13:37.040 seemed to be doing her best to protect him just like the male agents, but she was too short.
01:13:41.200 But however, when they were bringing the president over to the vehicle, the secure vehicle to get him
01:13:45.600 away, it looked like it would look like a bunch of sorority sisters who were hung over the one with 1.00
01:13:51.420 the ponytail whipping around. She didn't know where she was going. The other one who couldn't
01:13:54.220 reholster her weapon. Um, not, not one of these women inspires any confidence. And by the way, 0.88
01:14:00.420 if they're 30 years old, it would be a lot. I mean, they seem very young and they don't seem in
01:14:05.040 control or command at all. Look at this woman. She doesn't know what she's doing. She's got it. 1.00
01:14:08.820 She gets her sunglasses back. Okay, great. Um, this woman on the left looks like the one who was 0.98
01:14:13.040 crouching earlier, though. I can't say it for a fact. Okay. But, and I want to talk about the
01:14:16.880 diversity effort, but before we go there, Chuck, the whole weekend, all I could think of was fine.
01:14:23.040 Let's have that discussion, but let's first talk about who didn't secure the scene.
01:14:26.540 The person who didn't make sure the rooftop was adequately secure is the person we need to be
01:14:33.860 talking about. And I have no idea whether that's a female or a male. Do we know any, but then anything
01:14:39.420 about who that is? We don't, you're referring to what's called, who was the site agent who did the
01:14:45.500 protective advance ahead of time and who was there to run the show of the day of? We don't know who
01:14:51.020 that person was, the level of experience, the gender. We don't know any of that. Um, I can continue 0.91
01:14:58.520 here with the DEI program. If you'd like, um, the director of the secret service, Kim Cheadle,
01:15:05.840 uh, has created a program known within the secret service as the 30 for 30. Uh, that is the director
01:15:15.160 wants to achieve 30% female agents and officers within the secret service by the year 2030.
01:15:24.680 To expand hiring, they're aiming to have 30% women recruits by 2030 and even allowed YouTube
01:15:31.660 influencer, Michelle Kare to train with ages. But I'm very conscious, uh, as, uh, as I sit in this
01:15:39.520 chair now of making sure that we need to, uh, attract diverse candidates and ensure that we are
01:15:45.160 developing and giving opportunities to everybody in our workforce, um, and particularly women.
01:15:51.060 This program has created great contention within the secret service. And some of the questions that
01:15:59.260 are going to be asked of the director is have standards for hiring, for training, for assignments
01:16:07.540 been lowered to achieve this program. It's a very straightforward question. And now the director
01:16:17.280 is in a position where she's going to have to prove that it hasn't. And I hope it hasn't,
01:16:24.520 but unfortunately I don't think speaking honestly, that's going to be the answer.
01:16:30.480 Mm-hmm. I mean, it looks obvious. It's so absurd to try to paint this as female empowerment. Is it
01:16:37.540 female empowerment to take a bunch of women who are obviously unqualified for the job and let them 1.00
01:16:42.040 publicly humiliate themselves and endanger the lives of a president and his fans? Is that female 1.00
01:16:48.300 empowerment? That's a national embarrassment for womankind. No one gets uplifted by such a decision, 1.00
01:16:54.320 whether it's on a secret service detail or a Boeing plane, diversity, equity, inclusion have no place
01:17:01.220 in jobs that relate to safety and security. And frankly, they have no place anywhere,
01:17:06.540 but certainly not in those jobs, not in an OR, not in a cockpit and not in front of the president's
01:17:12.180 protective detail. It's deeply wrong. Look, I used to live in Arlington and there was a woman in my
01:17:19.340 whatever townhouse unit who was about six foot two and strong. She was built and she was a secret 0.96
01:17:28.760 service agent. And I remember thinking like that kind of makes some sense to me. I could see that
01:17:33.760 as long as she's weapons trained and she can do all the other stuff. And then you get the occasional 0.69
01:17:37.220 female firefighter who matches that description too. But it's what less than one half of 1%. 1.00
01:17:43.560 Those are the only ones who should even be considered. And the women who look like me 0.92
01:17:49.000 or on the smaller side and could easily be run over by a five foot seven male have no business being 0.98
01:17:58.100 there, Chuck. This wasn't necessary. I've worked with females my entire career and the females that I 1.00
01:18:07.040 worked with were fantastic. They were as trained as I was, as capable as I was, both physically and
01:18:14.660 with a firearm. And there was great comfort and trust when you were serving on protection details of
01:18:21.160 which I served on many. So, you know, to divide the agency like this has not been helpful. But this is
01:18:29.820 where the director has focused since her time as director. And I think that's going to come up
01:18:36.440 because I don't think the priority of this director's attention has been placed where it
01:18:42.660 needs to be. And that is getting the most qualified people into the agency and focusing on the operations
01:18:50.140 of the agency, which is a no fail mission. You got to show up to work and get it right 100% of the
01:18:57.260 time each and every day. The Secret Service is not the type of agency that needs to be kinder,
01:19:04.960 gentler, gentler, and softer. That's not it. That's not what the Secret Service does each and
01:19:11.780 every day. What you wanted to see with former President Trump being taken off that stage,
01:19:18.260 I can appreciate the visual of the fist raised in the air. But if I'm there, his feet don't touch the
01:19:25.620 ground. He loses all say on being evacuated from that very dangerous situation. And unfortunately,
01:19:34.620 I fear when it's looked at that the answer was that they were incapable of doing so because they
01:19:41.280 had incapable people around him. He talked today to the New York Post and Byron York about the fact
01:19:49.680 that he you hear him in the tape saying, where are my shoes? Get my shoes. And he said he was hit so
01:19:54.480 hard by the Secret Service. He was hit right out of his shoes. He was wearing shoes when he began the
01:19:59.400 speech. But then they they listened to him when he said, wait, wait. Right. And I see I take your
01:20:04.920 point. And in that particular moment, they should be in charge, not him, because they knew that they
01:20:09.900 had shot the one sniper, but they didn't know that there was another sniper. How many more? The
01:20:16.620 assumption is always there's more. The assumption is it could be a diversionary attack. It could be split
01:20:22.960 tactics. It could be everything. So so the assumption is you get them up as soon as you can.
01:20:28.900 You get notified the threats down. At least the identified threat is down and you move them. You
01:20:33.980 get them out of there. Forget the shoes. Forget stopping to reassure the audience. I get it. But at
01:20:41.800 that point in time, it becomes my show and we're moving. It could it could have taken a moment where
01:20:49.080 he dodged a bullet all but dodged a bullet and turned it into a situation where he actually did
01:20:54.620 take a bullet. I mean, I see the danger. I've got to ask you about resources, because again, this is
01:21:02.220 only from this one reporter who you guys are both saying does not have her facts right about shooter
01:21:07.480 protocol, sniper protocol, that absolutely the Secret Service can shoot any threat without being shot
01:21:12.120 upon. But she also did report and it's gotten a lot of traction online that one of the reasons there
01:21:19.040 may not have been appropriate resources for President Trump there was because and she is 0.92
01:21:24.980 sourcing two sources within the Secret Service community saying the only permanent agent from Trump's
01:21:32.120 detail during the rally was special agent in charge Kern and that all others were temps. Pittsburgh,
01:21:40.100 U.S. Secret Service field office had a Jill Biden visit and designated a lot of resources to her 1.00
01:21:47.560 according to at least one of her sources. She says the advanced work only occurred one day beforehand
01:21:52.860 because of a lack of resources. Where were the resources? It was the Jill Biden visit. Let me get your
01:21:59.880 reaction to that first, Chuck. Is that that possible? Right now, the Secret Service is denying that
01:22:05.020 on the record saying that is not true. She's wrong on that as well. Yeah, I got to tell you, it's not
01:22:12.140 uncommon to have more than just one visit fall under a geographic area controlled by the same field
01:22:19.620 office. The Secret Service historically has been able to walk and chew gum regarding resources, even if
01:22:27.100 they needed to fly them in. So I don't know why that would have been the problem. I think they would have
01:22:32.820 been both adequately staffed and the capability was there from a resourcing standpoint for sure.
01:22:40.520 So I can't comment on that. I can tell you that it doesn't surprise me. It does not surprise me,
01:22:47.700 sorry, that they're both, that they are both having to be staffed significantly. One's the first lady 0.90
01:22:54.800 and one is the former president and the presumptive nominee for the Republican Party. So they're both
01:23:01.560 pretty high level. Yes. What do you make of that report, John? I, you know, I don't know whether
01:23:08.440 it's true, but she's also in there reporting that many of the, those working around President Trump
01:23:14.360 were temps were, I don't know what that really means within this context. Well, DHS Secretary
01:23:21.100 Mayorkas is providing the same level of protection to President Trump that he's providing to the border.
01:23:26.160 Um, you know, I'm not the expert that Chuck is on, on dignitary protection, but a basic principle
01:23:34.280 of body bunker as a tactic, putting yourself around the principle to shield them with your body from any
01:23:43.860 ballistic threat, a basic requirement for that technique is that the people providing the body bunker
01:23:51.940 are as big or bigger than the principle to provide them the protection. And exactly what you pointed
01:23:59.180 out, Megan, what you're seeing is just the prima facie evidence that Trump has been assigned the B team
01:24:07.020 or, or less. You know, the last time we had a situation like this, I believe Teddy Roosevelt was
01:24:15.620 president, um, running for reelection as a former president. And the same thing happened. He was
01:24:23.600 almost killed by an assassin. I don't need a, I don't need Chuck's background to know that woman was
01:24:30.340 too small to be protecting Donald Trump. That it's obvious. Uh, there's no offense. I actually don't
01:24:37.140 give a shit if she's offended or not. She's too small. She's not the right person for the job. Doesn't 1.00
01:24:40.880 mean she can't be behind the scenes doing tactical planning in an office. That's, I don't care about
01:24:45.840 that, but same with, with firefighters, you know, and then we've seen this in the New York city police
01:24:50.040 officers who, you know, we said dancing like many of these women are obese. Many of the men are obese 0.83
01:24:56.600 too, but men have a natural advantage of strength when it comes to their female counterparts. It's just, 0.91
01:25:02.700 we've crossed the Rubicon into a lack of safety for civilians. And in this case, a former president
01:25:09.660 in the name of equity. And it's disgusting. I hope this is part of the beginning of the end, 0.95
01:25:14.920 Chuck. Um, I do wonder about the Dan Bongino reporting because he is definitely in a position
01:25:20.860 to know he's got a lot of secret service context still, and he was on body protection for Obama
01:25:24.720 and he's reporting and sticking very certainly to his reporting that, um, the agency officials,
01:25:35.060 and I think this means the secret service officials denied requests for more security
01:25:40.040 from secret service supervisors on Trump's protective detail. So I, that's either DHS he's
01:25:46.060 talking about or senior secret service, but that, that secret service supervisors wanted more
01:25:51.640 protection for Trump and that it was denied. This spokesman for the secret service, Anthony
01:25:57.720 Guglielini denied that such a request and denial took place though. I will tell you as a lawyer,
01:26:04.140 I noticed some wiggle room in his answer. He says, that's an untrue assertion that a member of the
01:26:08.200 former president's team requested additional security resources. All right. So he's saying that
01:26:12.740 a member of the former president's team and that those were rebuffed. And then he says,
01:26:17.140 in fact, we added protective resources and technology and capabilities as part of an increased campaign
01:26:27.320 travel tempo. I don't know whether that means agents or whether he can just say, you know,
01:26:32.780 we had to give him a few more laptops and guns, you know, what, what do you, what's going on here?
01:26:38.540 Um, yeah, very, uh, very gray statement. Uh, you know, I can tell you that the emails, uh, once they're
01:26:46.820 requested, which they will be, uh, from places like the office of protective operations, uh, are going to
01:26:53.940 show whether or not requests were made and if they were denied and what those requests were. Um, former
01:27:01.020 president Trump, as we know is a very high profile person by nature. Um, and along with that profile
01:27:08.180 comes an increased threat level. That's just the way it is. The more vocal you are, the more people
01:27:15.100 don't like you. That's just the way it is. And the secret service has to pay attention to that
01:27:20.720 and adapt. So if there were requests made and they were denied, uh, this is not going to help,
01:27:27.660 uh, with the general theme of what happened. Will these congressional investigations, uh, house
01:27:35.060 oversight, house Intel, and forgive me, I can't remember the committee in the Senate, but also
01:27:39.580 the Senate, which is controlled by Democrats. I mean, it's kind of interesting that they too have
01:27:42.820 said, we've got to investigate what went wrong here. I don't know that I trust the secret service
01:27:46.420 to investigate itself, but do you believe these congressional investigations will get to the
01:27:51.340 bottom of this Chuck? I mean, I'm, I don't know why Kim Cheadle hasn't tendered her resignation
01:27:55.320 already. Yeah. You know, there's all, there's also a request now coming out of Congress for,
01:28:01.300 uh, an independent commission, uh, to look at this similar to the Warren commission.
01:28:06.360 So, uh, I think there's going to be a lot of developments here. I think that type of request
01:28:11.120 would be very hard for Democrats to push away. I think this needs to be a bipartisan issue. Uh,
01:28:20.020 and I think this is a good way for agencies like the FBI and others to say, let us do our work.
01:28:26.860 We'll present you with our findings. Uh, and then you can take those into consideration,
01:28:32.360 but as far as the secret service doing an investigation of itself right now, uh, I think
01:28:39.160 it doesn't matter. I think the only way, uh, the secret service is reviewed, uh, is by independent
01:28:46.400 agencies, uh, or outside agencies. Well, and Chuck, let me follow it up with their kind of underground
01:28:53.760 at the moment. You know, we've had a couple of pressers now from the Jersey, sorry, I keep saying
01:28:59.120 New Jersey, it's Pennsylvania state officials, the sheriff and so on secret service. Wasn't there
01:29:04.000 secret service held a presser to tell us what they're doing at the RNC PS. The headline is
01:29:09.060 they're not increasing security. They feel it's already adequately covered. They haven't spoken.
01:29:12.840 I mean, I I'm not sure this is the kind of thing where it's like you got caught having an affair when
01:29:16.980 you were up for a cabinet position, just go underground and say nothing. It's not one of those events.
01:29:21.200 So what do you make of their utter silence right now? Oh, I've said from the start, I think it's a
01:29:27.560 strategic error. I think you've got to come out and you've got to face the music. Um, you've got the
01:29:33.380 line that there is an ongoing investigation. Uh, but I think the media and the American public just
01:29:40.000 want to be reassured, uh, that former president Trump is being protected the way he needs to be
01:29:46.540 protected. Um, I think you can talk about that maybe not in totality, but I think you can come
01:29:53.200 out and reassure the American public that yes, everything that's, that needs to be done is being
01:29:59.120 done. Uh, acknowledge that there was a failure in the overall security plan. There's no running away
01:30:05.580 from that. I think you get that over with. You take the hit from a PR standpoint. You say there's
01:30:11.900 ongoing investigations. You can't comment to more on too much more on that. And then you reassure the
01:30:18.060 American public that everything's been fixed. Uh, and he's going to have the highest level of
01:30:22.520 protection along with everybody else that the secret service protects. I don't know why they're
01:30:27.560 burying their heads in the sand. Trump today, just today is calling for RFKJ to receive secret
01:30:34.900 service protection too. And if Joe Biden denies that now, I mean, he's just absolutely heartless.
01:30:39.440 He's going to have to provide it. This is just too hot, a political culture at the moment. You
01:30:44.420 guys have been wonderful. Thank you for educating us both and giving us so much of your time. Chuck,
01:30:48.800 John, all the best to you. Thank you, Megan. A pleasure. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan
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01:31:55.020 After a historic news weekend here in America, the media has proven itself to be
01:31:59.240 incompetent yet again. That's one word for it. Corrupt. Biased is another. Aren't two others.
01:32:05.840 A stunning headline from the front page of the Denver Post declared,
01:32:10.420 gunman dies in attack. What in the actual F? When we first saw this headline circulating,
01:32:16.940 we thought it was a joke, but it's real. That's how they're describing an attempted presidential
01:32:21.300 assassination. And the New York Times at first went with Trump hurt, but safe after a shooting.
01:32:26.800 You know, like he was just, you know, it was a drive by, like he was in on the South side of
01:32:30.320 Chicago. No, there was no mention of an assassination attempt. Then there's Forbes for the W who in a
01:32:37.340 now deleted article asked reader Sunday, will surviving gunfire be Donald Trump's next appeal
01:32:42.120 to black voters? It was from a DEI writer. That's their beat. Everything must be seen 0.99
01:32:46.760 through the DEI perspective. Here to discuss it all and more, two of our favorites best known on this
01:32:53.040 show as the EJ's Eliana Johnson, editor in chief of the Washington free beacon and co-host of the
01:32:57.500 podcast ink stained wretches with Emily just chinsky as well. She's DC correspondent for
01:33:03.240 unheard ladies. Welcome back to the show. Eliana, I know you've got your time is short. Um, the media,
01:33:08.500 I pointed out the heroic behavior of, for example, the New York times photographer who
01:33:13.280 continued to press the shutter despite grave danger all around him and got us these iconic photos,
01:33:18.240 but the print journalists who actually have to write copy different story. It's amazing. Um,
01:33:24.200 you know, we, I spent part of the weekend writing an editorial about this, trying to process this
01:33:29.000 and thinking about the role of the press, which in past shootings, whether it was, um,
01:33:36.220 the 2021 shooting at a spa in Georgia, the media jumped to tell us this was symptomatic of right-wing
01:33:43.400 anti-Asian hate or Sarah Palin's use of a crosshairs imagery on a map, um, that was attributed where
01:33:51.100 they said when Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot, that Palin was responsible for this.
01:33:56.260 Um, you know, I have no doubt that if it was an assassination attempt on Biden, that we'd be hearing
01:34:02.380 how the rights rhetoric was responsible for this, but instead, or we're not getting that in the news
01:34:09.420 coverage. And the other interesting thing about this is I think there's no institution in American
01:34:14.240 life that's done more to empower Trump or help his rise and now resurrection, uh, than the media,
01:34:21.400 um, in the belief that he's the weakest Republican standard bearer. And Trump, um, showed in his
01:34:28.180 response to this, how, how foolish that that is because he really did show grace under fire. 0.84
01:34:33.620 Can you believe the fact that MSNBC took Joe Scarborough off the air this morning? His show 0.88
01:34:42.400 did not air reportedly because they're so worried that he or one of his panelists will say something
01:34:48.280 incendiary about Trump who's still recovering from this attempted assassination. The network,
01:34:54.520 once that hit push back saying, Oh no, we're just enrolling breaking news coverage. Well, why what's
01:34:59.220 wrong with him? He can't do rolling, but you have lots of reporters who can go on his show.
01:35:02.000 They don't trust him because they know he's hashtag part of the problem. Eliana.
01:35:08.200 It is look credit to the management of M of NBC and MSNBC that, um, had a moment of sanity here
01:35:16.860 because they're right. Um, I think it's true that either one of the two hosts of that show,
01:35:22.600 Joe Scarborough or Mika Brzezinski, or one of their many, many guests, uh, would have said something
01:35:27.980 that would have tarnished the reputation of NBC or MSNBC, um, and, and their flagship show.
01:35:35.700 But it is incredible that they have to pull that show from the air because they can't trust what
01:35:40.160 the people are going to say to talk about major political news, which is their job.
01:35:44.120 Right. Newsflash. I think you better have a talk with Jen Psaki too, who was on meet the press over 0.99
01:35:49.120 the weekend talking about how scared she is about the journalists here and how we really need,
01:35:55.480 you know, president Biden to be a healer. Okay. President Biden is also hashtag part of the
01:36:00.140 problem. And yes, it's fine to worry about journalists in general, but in this particular
01:36:03.720 instance, the person in danger is Donald Trump, Jen Psaki, not random journalists. It's just absurd
01:36:10.740 the way they approach these stories. So Eliana, as we go into this news cycle this week with the RNC,
01:36:17.240 and we have a more unified type candidate. That's the way Trump is thinking. Do you think the media
01:36:24.380 will respond accordingly by softening its coverage of him? I think the coverage will be a bit softer,
01:36:30.220 but it's also turned softer on Biden, um, where you see there is no more talk of pushing Biden off
01:36:37.400 the ticket. But I do think it's going to be difficult for them to go into this convention and be vicious
01:36:41.700 and nasty, which is what every bone in their body is, uh, is telling them they want to do. Look,
01:36:47.240 everything right now is coming up Trump, um, starting with his response and the photographs
01:36:54.200 captured of that attempt, which are historic, um, and ending with this morning with the dismissal of
01:36:59.820 the document case, the decision by judge Eileen Cannon down there. Um, and so things continue to
01:37:06.380 move in his direction. And I do think the, the media coverage will be less, uh, vicious and nasty
01:37:10.780 because of it. We'll continue to have losers like Keith Olbermann. I'll tell you in the next block 0.98
01:37:15.640 what he's saying. Eliana, thank you. Emily, thank you for sticking around. There's so much to cover.
01:37:21.500 Very grateful to have you. And I'm sorry that it took us two hours to get to the audience any other
01:37:25.840 day. You'd be the whole show as you always are, but my God, you understand today. Very extraordinary
01:37:30.560 afternoon. Well, and it was such fascinating content, listening to people with knowledge of what
01:37:34.760 happens inside the secret service and people who law enforcement passed with protecting the
01:37:39.060 president. So it was, uh, riveting to even just listen to. Thank you. And it's interesting because
01:37:44.220 that guy, John too, well, while he was very careful about not disclosing exactly what his knowledge
01:37:48.720 was based on, he's very well connected, uh, to all the players in this case. So we were grateful to
01:37:53.240 have him as well. Um, so here's how I see the news today. All right. You've got, okay. You've got
01:38:02.200 president Trump surviving an assassination attempt and creating one of the most iconic photos and
01:38:07.060 moments of all time, leading even some Democrats to say, I got to vote for that guy. I there's no,
01:38:13.000 that is a super human kind of strength that we all witnessed there. You can have that guy,
01:38:18.100 or you can have the guy who falls up the stairs trying to get on the air force one who can't keep
01:38:24.160 his words together, who can't spit sentences out, who has to go to bed at eight, who can only work
01:38:29.920 four to six hours a day. I mean, truly like the contrast could not be more stark. And then he
01:38:36.060 comes into today with the RNC about to, you know, get going. It's going to be a celebration of Donald
01:38:41.520 Trump and finds out that the most problematic of the four legal cases against him is done.
01:38:46.860 It's dead at least for now and probably forever. Um, and that that could also affect Jack Smith's role
01:38:54.800 in what's left of the January 6th case, which was already on life support today, just a matter of
01:39:00.760 moments. He's going to be announcing his vice presidential pick, which will imbue the campaign
01:39:04.940 with another round of enthusiasm, not from the media, not from the left, but from Republicans,
01:39:09.940 no matter who it is. Some will be a little disappointed. Some will be excited, but net net,
01:39:13.740 these things tend to have a positive uplifting effect. And against all that, what you have on the
01:39:19.120 democratic side is president Biden before the Trump shooting, holding a conference call with
01:39:26.020 angry house Democrats who are saying, get out. We, we can't win with you. And reportedly so inept
01:39:32.900 on this call that I'm going to repeat what Jake Sherman of punch bowl news reported during the call 0.91
01:39:40.360 with the progressive caucus. The president said, said out loud that his staff had passed him a note to
01:39:46.680 quote, stay positive. You are sounding defensive. I didn't read the note allowed to participants on
01:39:53.720 the call. I'm sorry. And then last night from the oval, he got out there and tried to strike this
01:40:01.480 conciliatory tone. Let's go for unity and continued to screw up his words. Instead of saying, we'll decide
01:40:09.320 our differences at the ballot box repeatedly said at the battle box and the transcription person at the
01:40:15.240 one. There's just, and here's the end of my synopsis. Now there's reporting via Axios that some of the
01:40:22.740 top senior leadership among the dams who were most rabid about getting Biden out have resigned themselves
01:40:29.480 to the reality in their view that Donald Trump just won this election, that he's going to get a second
01:40:34.740 term and that there's really no point in expending any more further political capital in trying to get
01:40:40.220 Biden out because the conclusion here in their view is foregone. I mean, it's, they know what it's
01:40:47.140 going to be. So what do you make of this chain of events and where it leaves us? It's just, it's
01:40:52.120 such a knot to untangle, but it's really the most remarkable state of affairs. I think in modern
01:40:58.300 American political history, it's crazier than 2016, the night that Donald Trump actually won the election.
01:41:03.960 I think right now we're in a moment that's actually even crazier than that, because as you just laid out,
01:41:08.060 Megan, the sitting president of the United States had a cognitive breakdown in front of the entire
01:41:12.340 country. The last two weeks have been spent with donors actually revoking, saying they are not
01:41:18.140 giving more money to the democratic party. You have high profile Hollywood stars, democratic lawmakers
01:41:24.620 saying that they can no longer support the sitting president of the United States, not because of
01:41:29.160 policy differences, but because he is too old. He's not capable of handling his duties. And then on top of
01:41:35.620 that, you have this historic moment, as you just laid out, Megan, of the former president of the United
01:41:40.220 States getting shot in the head, just grazing his ear, obviously, but being millimeters away from
01:41:47.380 death on national television at a campaign event. And all of this is playing out as that former president
01:41:54.160 goes into the pomp and the circumstance of the nominating convention. And so just psychologically,
01:42:00.620 Megan, I'm trying to imagine what it's like to be Donald Trump right now. You survive by millimeters.
01:42:05.520 In front of the entire world, a bullet actually hits your ear. Those iconic photographs are snapped.
01:42:12.980 And then you head into Milwaukee with a huge legal weight just about off your shoulders. A vice
01:42:19.180 presidential announcement to make. And Donald Trump obviously revels in this type of pomp and
01:42:24.120 circumstance. And then you're being coronated as the Republican nominee. I mean, you have to imagine
01:42:29.520 that the trauma almost has him, you know, going back and forth, oscillating between the trauma of
01:42:37.480 that and the stress that it can put on your life, but also kind of walking on air with all of this
01:42:42.920 politically, personally laid out in front of him this week. I've been thinking about that picture
01:42:47.920 we just showed with the fist up in the air, this iconic picture with the flag overhead and the Secret
01:42:52.420 Service trying to get him off stage, the blood on his face. And I think Donald Trump's whole life in a way
01:42:57.180 prepared him for this moment. You know, he is incredibly strong. He is a fighter in the fighter flight
01:43:03.760 contest. Fight always wins with Donald Trump. And it's, of course, made him controversial. I mean, I have
01:43:10.700 been on the receiving end of some of that myself, and it can be somewhat alarming for those who find
01:43:15.520 themselves on the wrong side of him. But net net, it's what made him president. It's what made him,
01:43:21.240 you know, incredibly rich and successful. It's what made him not roll over and, you know, get into
01:43:27.060 the fetal position when he got indicted four times. It's what made him an effective president. It's what
01:43:32.200 made him stand behind Brett Kavanaugh when no other sitting president would have stood by that guy being
01:43:37.380 accused of being a serial rapist by these loons who we didn't necessarily know were all loons at the
01:43:42.220 time. Donald Trump didn't care. He stood by his nominee and he got him onto the bench.
01:43:46.180 All of it. And it's what made him able in that moment to raise the fist. Not only that, but he's a
01:43:54.020 natural born performer. He he hosted the number one show on television for a decade. He's really talented
01:44:01.360 in front of the camera, has a natural showman's instinct for what works. I've told the audience
01:44:05.880 before, he always sits down in an interview and says the lighting's like this. What about this? There's a
01:44:09.640 shadow here. Move that. He understands almost like a reality show would that there's a camera on him at all
01:44:15.280 times and that it matters how he behaves. And on top of that, Emily, you've got his connection with
01:44:21.300 the UFC. And before that, the WWE, you know, he loves going to these events where it's raucous and
01:44:29.080 it's rowdy and it's rough and going into the ring, you know, pretending he's in the fights himself,
01:44:36.360 the showmanship of that and what people like to see in a in a battle, you know, a physical battle
01:44:42.800 where people could actually, you know, throw blows and all that. So we sort of got a lifetime of being
01:44:48.400 around conflict and understanding how to own the moment. I just think all of this fed into
01:44:55.220 this extraordinary thing we saw where actually under fire, he was able to maintain his composure,
01:45:05.260 his strength, his messaging to the people, raise his fist in defiance and say, fight.
01:45:14.080 The WWE point is fascinating. And on top of that, I just want to add what a lot of people have already
01:45:20.000 heard on the audio that was being picked up by the presidential mic that was still on after Donald
01:45:24.760 Trump and the bullets were flying by him, flying towards his ear and all of that. You heard him say,
01:45:30.180 let me get my shoes. And many people have pointed that out at this point. But I think it was a very,
01:45:34.460 very conscious effort on Trump's behalf to understand he had cameras enrolling right in
01:45:41.940 front of him. He turned to the crowd very intentionally. He didn't just mouth fight
01:45:45.460 into the Secret Service people's face, into their heads as they were covering him. He intentionally
01:45:50.840 sort of, you can see this, maneuvers himself so that he's looking out at the crowd and saying,
01:45:55.840 fight. He wanted to have those shoes on. He told Byron York after Byron said, it looked like you
01:46:00.340 wanted to keep speaking. He said, yeah, I did. That Byron had picked up on something accurate.
01:46:05.280 And that's no surprise. And that's when you mentioned the WWE UFC point, that really,
01:46:11.500 I think the images of somebody with blood streaked across their face and a fist up in the air,
01:46:16.820 the parallel is, it's almost eerie, Megan. But it was very much Donald Trump knowing that he had
01:46:23.220 cameras on him, that there were video cameras, and that there were actual cameras. And it's reality
01:46:29.360 television. And the last point I would make is that he's extended the reality television onto
01:46:34.880 truth social as well. He's been reacting, like we see people who are in the public eye do,
01:46:42.420 not presidents so much, but he's been reacting, dictating through reporting, we know. He's been
01:46:46.560 dictating his truth social posts about all of this. He posted one not long after the shooting,
01:46:51.520 a couple of the next day, just kind of bringing people into his mindset, like he typically does.
01:46:56.860 Sometimes it gets him in trouble. Sometimes it works really well for him. But in this case,
01:47:00.600 I think it's been working well for him because it's, it's inviting people into the moment with
01:47:04.600 him. It matters. You know, we, I've heard Charles CW Cook, who I love over at national review,
01:47:11.120 not a Trump fan say many times fairly that in some ways, Donald Trump might not be the most
01:47:16.700 effective spokesman for America. In some ways he can't go in depth on our historical importance
01:47:23.560 and our founding fathers and all. I mean, I, if he can, I've never seen it. So I, I understand the
01:47:28.200 point, but he gets the visual and the strength of our country and how that should be portrayed in
01:47:35.700 our commander in chief better than anyone. And that matters too, especially because the other choice
01:47:45.420 couldn't be weaker, both physically and cognitively. And just in his presentation,
01:47:54.280 you know, you have the chance to send this guy bloodied up with a fist in the air to go stand
01:48:00.920 up to she and Putin if necessary, or you've got the other guy who, I mean, truly is only working a
01:48:08.540 smattering of hours needs to go night, night by eight and is at the point now where his own staff
01:48:14.800 is referring to his big boy press conferences, because this one, he's actually going to take
01:48:19.300 questions off prompter. That's just one is provocative and one is scary to our adversaries.
01:48:26.880 It's the choice could not be more clear. I can't wait to see the polls to see how this event has
01:48:35.880 affected people who were on the fence, right? That small group that we all say, well, they're
01:48:40.260 not going to go, you're not going to vote for Trump now. By now they know Trump, you know, he's got a
01:48:44.720 ceiling or, or does he? Yeah. And Biden is clearly trying to get himself in front of camera. And I
01:48:52.280 think that's his only choice given that his sort of dominant, um, characteristic right now as people
01:48:58.940 perceive him is weakness is royalty. He wants to project this image of leadership that he's on top of
01:49:05.100 the situation. We saw those photographs actually from the situation room released after he was
01:49:09.700 briefed with vice president Harris. And that's what he's trying to do. And I think that's really his
01:49:14.100 only choice at the same time though, he can't get through an oval office address without saying
01:49:18.480 battle box, um, without saying former Trump instead of former president Trump. So it might not be serving
01:49:24.640 him well because it continues to emphasize the split screen. I don't know if you've seen this meme
01:49:29.340 that's pinging around Megan, but it has Joe Biden versus stairs. It's a picture of Joe Biden falling
01:49:34.060 down. And then next to it is a picture that says Donald Trump versus bullet of a picture of him
01:49:38.940 standing up with his fist in the air. Uh, that stuff that's pinging around Tik TOK and the 0.87
01:49:44.060 meme sphere and pop culture world is going to be really powerful. I suspect, uh, like you do that
01:49:49.580 it's going to show up in the numbers and Joe Biden doesn't have any other choice. There's nothing he can
01:49:56.820 do to mitigate that going forward. And the RNC has been in this sort of Trumpian way, uh, prepared
01:50:03.800 for the moment that Donald Trump now is going to take advantage of it's in Milwaukee. Uh, again,
01:50:09.140 I'm, I'm from not far from Milwaukee. This is intentionally chosen, brilliant, brilliantly
01:50:13.540 chosen for Republicans. We can't take for granted how smart of a choice it was to hold this convention
01:50:18.580 in Milwaukee. He has the teamsters president speaking. He has the mayor of East Palestine,
01:50:23.480 Ohio speaking. Uh, and they also remember even in Butler, Pennsylvania, they were at a farm show.
01:50:30.260 That's where he did this rally. I mean, it's, it's really fascinating how the Republican messaging
01:50:36.760 is now draped in ways that we've come accustomed to with these trappings of Trumpism, uh, that are now
01:50:44.540 they've set the stage for something really powerful, quite literally set the stage.
01:50:48.580 Mm-hmm. The, uh, just a dip into vice presidential news. I hate to spend too much time on it because
01:50:54.520 by the time our podcast hits, people will know who it actually is. But, um, right now CNBC reporting,
01:51:00.420 it's not Rubio. And there was an earlier report that no one knew that the, all the last like finalists
01:51:07.900 were saying as of up until today that not, not one had heard whether they were the choice or not.
01:51:17.180 I don't know if that's true, but if so, I think it's like you, Megan, I think that can only mean
01:51:21.380 one thing. It's, it's you, it's Trump Kelly 24. I got enough problems. I don't need to add that to
01:51:28.600 the list. Um, here, uh, you mentioned Biden last night and I do need to play some of that because
01:51:34.420 he attempted to, you know, be the sober leader from the oval office. There were first reports that
01:51:41.600 he was going to put this on tape that he couldn't even do a two minute address from the oval office
01:51:45.740 live. And, um, then we heard, no, no, he's going to do it live. And I've, I got to tell you, like,
01:51:51.180 I have my doubts on whether he had originally planned on doing it live, whatever he did it live.
01:51:56.740 He did screw up his words. And here was the message right now. He got a lot of praise for
01:52:01.380 this message, but I've got a different take on it. Watch. I want to speak to you tonight about the
01:52:06.620 need for us to lower the temperature in our politics tonight. I want to speak to what we do know.
01:52:13.280 A former president was shot, an American citizen killed while simply exercising his freedom to
01:52:20.360 support the candidate of his choosing. Violence has never been the answer. Whether it's with
01:52:25.720 members of Congress of both parties being targeted and shot, or a violent mob attacking the Capitol on
01:52:31.240 January 6th, or brutal attack on the spouse of former Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi,
01:52:36.520 or information and intimidation on election officials, or the kidnapping plot against
01:52:43.600 the sitting governor, or an attempted assassination on Donald Trump. And in America, we resolve our
01:52:50.160 difference at the battle box. Now that's how we do it at the battle box, not with bullets.
01:52:57.120 The power to change America should always rest in the hands of the people, not in the hands of
01:53:01.880 would be assassin. Okay. First of all, the need to both sides, the attempted assassination of a former
01:53:12.000 president is abhorrent. This is in a category of its own and does not deserve to be mentioned in the
01:53:21.000 same breath as what happened in Nancy Pelosi's husband out in San Francisco with some deranged
01:53:27.460 druggie or the plot against Gretchen Whitmer, which we know involved an unhealthy amount of
01:53:34.880 his federal agents trying to lure people into threatening Gretchen Whitmer, um, or January 6th.
01:53:42.780 If you're going to go January 6th, why don't you mention BLM and all the riots they held, right? Like
01:53:48.220 the presidential attempted assassination is in a league of its own. And he knows that. So the attempt to
01:53:54.620 both sides, it is repulsive. And not only that, Emily, but the nerve for him to say, we're going
01:54:03.680 to, we really need to lower the temperature as it's his DOJ that is prosecuting Donald Trump in not one,
01:54:13.440 but two federal cases. One of which just got dismissed this morning. No, thanks to him. He didn't
01:54:18.560 say, and therefore I am withdrawing the law fair against Donald Trump. And after the past
01:54:24.420 just few days, since his non-compass mentis performance at that debate, when he started
01:54:30.260 to go in a downward spiral and panic, the rhetoric he's been using against Trump has gotten more
01:54:35.860 severe pointed and problematic than ever. Here's just some of what we've heard from Joe Biden recently.
01:54:43.860 Donald Trump is Donald Trump is a convicted criminal. 0.87
01:54:47.160 Donald Trump was found liable for sexual assault. Here's what the judge wrote, quote, 0.99
01:54:53.880 Mr. Trump raped her. 0.95
01:54:57.160 No, I mean, Mr. Judge is lying, not mine. 0.99
01:55:00.280 Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations
01:55:06.820 of our republic. But there's no question. The Republican Party today is dominated, driven and
01:55:13.480 intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans. And that is a threat to this country.
01:55:21.900 And then, of course, saying we need to put him in a bullseye. Like,
01:55:25.500 spare me to lower the temperature talk until you do it yourself.
01:55:28.560 And, you know, it's not just Joe Biden either. And at a moment of political violence against
01:55:36.320 the right, the right thing to do, the morally correct thing to do is give that its moment.
01:55:42.020 We know that's what the left would be demanding if the parties were reversed here. And I think
01:55:45.540 actually that's correct. I think it is correct. It's not to say that there isn't a culpability for
01:55:50.280 extreme rhetoric, quote, on both sides. I think we all know that our political rhetoric is at a high
01:55:57.100 level right now. We're all well aware of that. But when it happens against the right, against a
01:56:02.580 former president, against the nominee for the Republican Party, maybe pause. I mean, I thought
01:56:08.500 that was shockingly tasteless to invoke acts of violence against the political left or attempted
01:56:13.360 acts of violence against the political left at a moment where a man was slain, slaughtered in the
01:56:18.800 bleachers, his blood bleachers, his blood is smeared over the bleachers because he went to a Trump rally
01:56:24.800 in rural Pennsylvania to even think, to even think as Wolf Blitzer and Margaret Brennan,
01:56:32.160 both mainstream media figures, in addition to the president who made those invocations in his
01:56:37.680 Oval Office speech, shockingly tasteless. If it were reversed, the media would be calling their own
01:56:43.180 out for it. They'd be calling Joe Biden out for it. And frankly, they would be right. They would be
01:56:47.940 right to do that. They're not playing by their own rules. But that's not something we can come to
01:56:52.680 expect from them. It's just a matter of how Biden handles this going forward because his campaign is
01:56:58.900 predicated on the idea that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. And now a lot of people on
01:57:03.580 the left are saying, take the temperature down. Well, can you make the argument that he's a threat
01:57:09.160 to democracy while also making the argument the temperature needs to go down? Maybe. We certainly
01:57:13.860 haven't seen them attempt it yet so far. I'm really looking forward to Margaret Brennan condemning
01:57:18.780 the New Republic for merging Trump's face into Hitler's and the Washington Post for doing the
01:57:23.540 same. Jeff Bezos was out there condemning this attempted assassination on President Trump.
01:57:28.740 You know, it was so sad this shouldn't happen in our country. It was your publication that did the
01:57:33.660 same thing. Trump on one side with a profile right next to Adolf Hitler with their heads merging and
01:57:39.600 said, yes, it really is okay to compare Donald Trump to Hitler. Spare me your empty platitudes
01:57:45.920 in the wake of the man almost being murdered on national television. Who do they think they're
01:57:51.160 kidding? And Margaret Brennan of CBS, who I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but like traditionally
01:57:57.480 has been not the worst offender on this. Like of all the liberal media, she's usually not that bad,
01:58:04.600 was the worst. I really think she was absolutely the worst in how she reacted to this. Not only did
01:58:11.080 she have an actual Republican shooting victim, Steve Scalise sitting there, but she insisted
01:58:17.520 that he specifically instruct members of his party to rein in the rhetoric and not blame.
01:58:24.960 Like, first of all, Steve Scalise does not control all Republicans magically. And that's the wrong
01:58:30.240 question to be asking him. And then had this exchange with Robert Costa on their Saturday night
01:58:36.000 coverage. Watch this, Sat 16. And it should be noted, many of Trump's supporters on social media
01:58:41.680 tonight extremely angry. This is still a politically charged moment as much as it is a crime investigation
01:58:48.360 in a security moment. Many people already in this country very angry at the other side,
01:58:53.580 not just on a partisan red versus blue level, but we cover it all the time here at CBS News.
01:58:58.480 There's a visceral nature to the emotions that pour out on the campaign trail.
01:59:02.060 And to that point, Bob Costa, I was just texting with Robert O'Brien, the former national security
01:59:07.180 advisor to Donald Trump, who sent out a statement saying we've got to take the political temperature
01:59:13.560 down. He and Mike Lee, the senator, issued this jointly. We've got to take the political
01:59:19.360 temperature down as evidenced by what happened in Pennsylvania today. So two key Republican Trump
01:59:25.340 supporters calling for the rhetoric, the political violence, the threats of it to be lowered.
01:59:32.060 That is in stark contrast to the head of the Trump campaign, one of the top Trump campaign
01:59:38.280 officials you were reading statements from earlier. We are also looking at social media posts
01:59:44.280 from other Republicans who are quite angry.
01:59:48.120 Well, we're entering, though, a period of extreme political charge with the Republican National
01:59:52.440 Convention.
01:59:54.440 I mean, just talk about getting the focus wrong. That was not the story on Saturday night,
01:59:59.340 and it's not the story today.
02:00:01.920 And maybe stop texting Margaret Brennan. If she treats you like this, if she treats people like 1.00
02:00:06.840 this, maybe stop texting her. Stop trying to get your name mentioned on national television in the
02:00:11.900 aftermath of a tragedy. I'm not ascribing ill motives. I think it's just honestly a time for
02:00:17.080 for people to learn that if your former president, the former president of your party is nearly
02:00:23.920 assassinated on international television, and that's the response of somebody in the chair like
02:00:30.480 that in mainstream media. Maybe they're not capable of covering you with fairness. And maybe you should
02:00:37.380 think about tactically how you respond to that going forward. But I don't know how that's, you know,
02:00:42.520 I think it's a big lesson for everybody. I don't know if you remember, Megan, when those pipe bombs,
02:00:47.380 horrible situation, were sent to CNN newsrooms. You know, obviously a terrible incident, much,
02:00:53.620 much smaller scale than what we saw play out on Saturday. And the entire conversation was about
02:00:58.980 how horrible the right is. You weren't allowed to, you know, quote both sides of it. And again,
02:01:03.360 I think that's right. When something happens in one direction, it's appropriate to talk about that
02:01:08.800 and to remember that these are people too. But of course, now it's just both sides,
02:01:13.820 both sides, both sides. Those aren't the rules they play by. They're not the rules they demand
02:01:17.340 everybody else play by. But now, of course, we can only talk about how it's both sides,
02:01:22.800 not how the political right has been demonized in these ways.
02:01:29.000 Which is the story on the night that the political rights leader almost died. That's the story. You want
02:01:34.760 to get into rhetoric while the man is still got stitches in his ear or however he recovered from
02:01:39.420 that? Then let's do that. Let's talk about the rhetoric leading up to the assassination attempt.
02:01:44.060 What led to that? That's the story, not the anger in response to it and condemning it.
02:01:51.300 And a man died during his family.
02:01:54.140 Yes, exactly right. And Margaret Brennan was definitely part of the problem. 1.00
02:01:59.100 Jamie Gengel, oh my God, at CNN. Look at this. I'm so,
02:02:04.760 how clueless can you be? It's not 17.
02:02:09.560 I do want to say there was one thing that when I watched the tape, I found
02:02:14.600 odd because of all of the heated rhetoric. And that is that after he was hit,
02:02:22.300 former President Trump got up and said, fight, fight, fight. I think what we're hearing from people
02:02:29.200 is that's not the message that we want to be sending right now. We want to tamp it down.
02:02:36.080 You're an idiot. Exactly wrong on all fronts. It's exactly what we needed to hear. It's what 1.00
02:02:40.960 most normal people wanted to hear and were inspired by as one of the most inspirational moments
02:02:45.780 of our lives, of recent history, to see a man under fire like that coming out and saying,
02:02:52.180 I'm okay, and putting his fist in the air and saying, fight, continue fighting for our ideals.
02:02:57.020 What planet does this person live on? How bad is her Trump derangement syndrome
02:03:02.700 that she thinks it was a negative message?
02:03:06.020 Shouldn't we fight what led to a man having to shield his family and sacrifice his own life and
02:03:14.140 have his blood smeared all over those bleachers in the Butler Farm Show in Pennsylvania? Shouldn't
02:03:20.420 that be the reaction to anybody? The man was just shot at. Donald Trump was just shot at,
02:03:24.860 pushed to the ground by Secret Service. He stood up. That's fighting in and of itself. Should he not
02:03:29.500 have done that? I don't know, Megan. I'm curious what you think about whether or not this was in the
02:03:33.760 other direction if people would get suspended for saying things like that.
02:03:36.880 Yeah, they would. Absolutely, they would. But you get a total pass when you're on the left.
02:03:41.980 There's been no, I asked my team this morning, has there been any blowback on the New Republic for
02:03:45.860 that Hitler cover? Have they weighed in at all? Have they apologized? It was only eight or nine days
02:03:50.380 ago. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then you've got Representative Benny Thompson. You saw this,
02:03:55.480 I'm sure, Democrat, Mississippi, who he offered condolences. So sorry, this is sad.
02:04:01.180 You know, political violence, bad. And Benny Johnson, sorry, Thompson, is the same person who
02:04:09.280 tried to pull President Trump's Secret Service protection in light of his conviction in being
02:04:16.360 found guilty as a felon in New York State. It was called the Disgraced Act, denying infinite security
02:04:23.480 and government resources allocated toward convicted in an extremely dishonorable form of protectees act.
02:04:27.760 So he can spare me the kind words now. And not just that, but his staffer, Jacqueline Marsaw,
02:04:34.260 was out there. She's a field director for him. And she posted on Facebook,
02:04:41.340 I don't condone violence, but please get some shooting lessons so you don't miss next time.
02:04:46.420 Oops, that wasn't me talking. And then in a follow up post, she wrote,
02:04:50.520 that's what your hate speech got you. So now she's been fired. But what kind of an office is 1.00
02:04:55.580 Benny Thompson running where he thinks President Trump should have lost his security and he's got
02:05:01.240 staffers like this?
02:05:03.180 Yeah, I was going to say he's running an office that gleefully did a media debut for that bill,
02:05:08.800 that piece of legislation. They went across media and just were so smug and, again, gleeful about it.
02:05:14.920 If people go back and roll the tapes the way they talked about that bill, it was, I mean, again,
02:05:20.440 you would be forced to answer for this with, you know, not just involving firing a staffer who said
02:05:25.240 something insane afterwards, but for your own conduct and your own culpability in creating that
02:05:31.080 atmosphere by introducing a bill like that. So, I mean, it's just says so much that are, you know,
02:05:37.540 it's kind of too little to late from people like Jeff Bezos, because this should have been happening,
02:05:42.620 you know, a week ago, a month ago, a year ago, almost 10 years ago at this point,
02:05:46.940 as we were all reacting to the rise of populism, there was just no grace given to the people who
02:05:53.180 looked at Donald Trump and saw a hero, which is unthinkable to people in coastal newsrooms. I get
02:05:58.400 it. It's unthinkable to people in Hollywood, but there's just never been any grace. And the reaction
02:06:02.940 has always been counterproductive, even by the left's standards. If you hate populism, stop giving
02:06:08.620 reasons for people to love populism, because you are punching down at them relentlessly, relentlessly,
02:06:15.180 even when their champion is shot in the head, the punching down continues.
02:06:20.600 Two points. One, because I promised earlier, Keith Olbermann actually out there over the weekend,
02:06:26.400 suggesting Trump wasn't actually shot, saying the strangest parts of this are 12 hours afterward,
02:06:31.800 and no authorities are confirming Trump's assertion that he was shot. And there seem to be few media
02:06:36.760 questions as to why they haven't. What an idiot. Read the news. Confirmed multiple times by the Secret 1.00
02:06:41.320 Service by Trump himself, but he doesn't believe a word that comes out of Trump's mouth.
02:06:45.040 He can't deal with it. Anything would make Trump look sympathetic. It's just rejected.
02:06:48.780 And then there's Jack Black, emblematic of many people in Hollywood who, just like that staffer
02:06:55.540 for Thompson, got on stage at an event that he was playing for his band this weekend and said this.
02:07:01.500 Happy birthday to you. Make a wish. Don't miss Trump next time.
02:07:18.560 Don't miss Trump next time. To the laughter of, I guess, his Canadian crowd. Their big lamentation
02:07:25.940 today is not the rhetoric of the left, the president, never mind the right. It's that the
02:07:31.160 shooter missed, which takes us where, Emily, in the, in the call to unify and lower the temperature.
02:07:40.000 I mean, it's just the, the Keith Olbermann, just starting with him. Um, there was also an
02:07:46.760 advisor to Reed Hoffman who put out a memo, apparently to journalists after the shooting,
02:07:52.080 suggesting very seriously that it may have been staged. Dimitri Melhorn, uh, just jaw dropping
02:07:57.360 stuff from somebody who's really a part of the democratic mainstream is an ardent
02:08:01.160 Biden supporter, uh, even after the debate has doubled down on support for Biden. And I think
02:08:07.140 what that speaks to is how the left, uh, and the Jack Black quip too, how the left likes to act,
02:08:12.320 that it's only on the right that, you know, those toothless rubes see these elections as being 1.00
02:08:17.560 existential, that they really are, you know, that their ways of life are really threatened by who's
02:08:22.480 in the Oval Office and who's not. But the left sees it the exact same way. They don't just get,
02:08:26.900 they just don't get any flack for when they talk recklessly about it, except for people on the
02:08:31.640 right and left will point to that and be like, Oh, you know, you see Fox news did a bunch of
02:08:35.160 segments on, on the Jack Black thing. So, you know, it's, it's, we're even here and we're not,
02:08:41.020 we're not even at all. Um, because it's, it's, we, we all know you don't even need to do a study of
02:08:46.760 it. We all see it very plainly that there's a grave imbalance in how, uh, this is talked about from
02:08:52.020 one side to the other. Uh, Reed Hoffman himself, who was speaking at this muckety muck conference
02:08:58.200 out, uh, in Sun Valley this weekend, clearly called for someone to make a martyr out of Trump.
02:09:04.420 And I have several sources who were in the room who heard it. And now in the wake of all this and
02:09:09.020 his staffer, you know, suggesting the whole thing is a conspiracy theory that it, you know,
02:09:12.480 somehow made up or orchestrated. Um, he tries to come out and say, Oh, I didn't mean it that way.
02:09:18.100 His whole thing is I, you know, Trump said all these terrible things, bloodbath,
02:09:22.060 all the misrepresentations. And then, um, he said, Peter Thiel said, Oh, all my lawsuit work
02:09:27.300 against Trump was turning, uh, turning him into a martyr. And I replied that I wish that Trump would
02:09:33.480 martyr himself. And then he adds this meaning let himself be held accountable for his assaults on
02:09:40.120 and lies about women. Of course, I meant nothing about any sort of physical harm or violence,
02:09:45.500 which I categorically deplore what a joke. And I replied to him on Twitter as follows your very
02:09:54.120 attempt to both sides. It reveals your insincerity. I have multiple sources who were in the room when
02:10:00.240 you said it and everyone took away the same meaning. You want Trump dead. You're not fooling anyone. 0.99
02:10:08.040 None of these people are we're keeping the records and people's professional reputations ought to change
02:10:14.720 as a result of these reactions to an attempted presidential assassination. Tomorrow's going
02:10:20.780 to be a huge day. We're going to know Trump's VP pick. We're going to have the Lester Holt interview
02:10:25.320 of Joe Biden, and we're going to find out, I guess, what direction Democrats are going to go
02:10:31.420 now that they appear to be stuck with this guy against Trump, Trump, who's attained almost superhero
02:10:38.560 status. Emily, what a time to be in news. Seriously, it never stops, but it never comes
02:10:46.760 quite this fast. It's great to see you. Thanks so much. Thanks to all of you as well. We will be
02:10:53.720 here for you tomorrow. Busy week ahead. See you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly
02:11:00.560 Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.