The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump's Accessibility, Portnoy's Battle, and Dangers of AI Robots, with Chamath Palihapitiya and Jason Calacanis of All-In

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.820 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, a big news day with Joe Biden

00:00:17.220 finally sitting down for an interview and Trump continuing to take on everyone. But we have got

00:00:23.220 to begin with an update on what is going on with Dave Portnoy and an anti-Semitic incident that

00:00:29.860 happened at a bar he owns in Philly over the weekend. Here's what we know. When you order

00:00:35.460 bottle service at the bar, you get to also write on a sign for the whole bar to see.

00:00:41.320 As you can see, some idiots put the phrase, forgive me, fuck the Jews on the sign. The viral went video

00:00:48.680 on social media and Portnoy, who is Jewish, was irate. Although I always feel like that's irrelevant.

00:00:53.500 I would go irate too. And I'm not Jewish, but it does become relevant to the story that the fact

00:00:58.800 that he is Jewish. We'll get to it. So he launched an investigation and says that he fired the two

00:01:04.360 employees who allowed that sign to go forward and said that he was sending the two customers

00:01:09.480 responsible for the sign, volunteering to send them to the Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz so

00:01:16.060 they could learn a thing or two about the terrible consequences of anti-Jewish propaganda.

00:01:20.440 Sounds like a positive outcome, right? Portnoy wasn't trying to like ruin their lives. I don't even think

00:01:26.420 he was mentioning the one guy's name. He just wanted, you know, a good outcome. And he thought

00:01:33.280 this would be a way to do it. And he was getting warned that there was no reforming somebody who

00:01:38.440 would request that as their words on a sign, but he, you know, took a chance. Well, one of the two

00:01:46.260 customers, a man now identified as 21 year old Temple University student, maybe Temple has suspended

00:01:53.860 him. Mo Khan, K-H-A-N says he was not responsible for the sign and merely videotaped the sign and then

00:02:03.460 posted it to his own social media as a quote, citizen journalist. Um, he now has fought back

00:02:11.700 with his own series of videos on social claiming he is the victim here. Watch.

00:02:18.300 Dave Portnoy sensationalized it to his 9.2 million followers on Instagram and X, essentially turning

00:02:27.440 it into a global news story. Although I had nothing to do with the sign coming out, nor do I know who

00:02:33.640 did it. I know that the sign was provocative because it reminded people a lot of the unjust things that

00:02:38.900 Israel is doing around the world, thus leading me to report on it. Dave Portnoy and his friends

00:02:44.020 can choose to be triggered over the sentiments of that sign and even kick me out of the establishment

00:02:48.820 forever. However, they have no right to destroy my life over free speech and ultimately something

00:02:55.740 that was an edgy joke. Frankly, they're more worried about destroying and uprooting me than the thousands

00:03:02.960 of people getting destroyed and uprooted in genocide. That sign had no effects in terms of killing

00:03:10.820 any Jews. However, Israel kills thousands of people on a daily basis. Dave Portnoy and the

00:03:18.460 greater Jewish community are acting as if they are the victims when this whole time I am the victim.

00:03:23.740 Dave has built a reputation, a career, and a business solely focused on the anti-cancel culture.

00:03:30.980 Here, he's hypocritically lynching me, absolutely canceling me in any way possible, and ruining

00:03:37.680 my life. Dave Portnoy owes me restitutions and an apology for everything that he has done and

00:03:44.880 caused for me in these past few days. In an attempt to expose me, he exposed himself as almost a total

00:03:51.860 fraud, going back on anything he stands for. Okay, it's not cancel culture when he tries to do

00:04:00.220 something nice for you. Like what? How did Dave Portnoy cancel you, Mr. Khan? He said that was

00:04:08.140 effed up. I will give you a free trip overseas so you can go to Auschwitz and learn a thing or two

00:04:14.740 about the Holocaust. He's not your employer. You posted the video on your own, assuming the risk

00:04:20.480 of blowback. He's not trying to cancel you. He was trying to help you. You canceled yourself by

00:04:27.080 posting your sign, or at least your friend's sign, without letting you know this happened at this

00:04:34.860 bar. You just posted it without comment on your reel. And your behavior in the aftermath has proven

00:04:39.540 to us quite clearly that you believe the sentiment in that sign, in my opinion. Now this guy Khan's

00:04:44.920 trying to get $25,000 donated to him on Give, Send, Go to help him defend himself against Portnoy's

00:04:53.540 quote, a tax. He's up to $12,000 so far. Portnoy responded by revoking the invitation for the free

00:05:01.760 trip to Auschwitz and blasting Khan for trying to profit over the incident. Watch.

00:05:07.580 Temple fucking suspended his ass basically before I was even involved because, hey, asshole,

00:05:13.620 you fucking uploaded it to your personal Instagram. What do you think was going to happen,

00:05:18.060 you brain dead moron? Like, I'm going to try to make this teachable moment. This kid's crying.

00:05:22.640 He's like, I'm not anti-Semitic, blah, blah, blah, all this shit, even though there's past incidents

00:05:27.300 that came to light. And then he does a 180. He's like, oh, I was a citizen journalist. I don't know

00:05:33.100 who did it. I have nothing to do it. You see, he's just a flat liar, coward with no responsibility.

00:05:38.580 I should have seen this next move coming. He is now actually trying to profit from this.

00:05:44.860 And he's playing the role of the victim. Zero accountability. Blaming it all on me. He's like,

00:05:51.760 I've lost an internship that I work hard for and I'm suspended from school. Buddy, you upload a

00:05:58.720 fuck the Jews sign to your personal Instagram from my fucking bar. And you're blaming that now on me.

00:06:07.040 But this was about being a Jew in America. Other Jews in the bar. I'm a Jew. My parents are a Jew.

00:06:13.200 American Jews. Fuck the Jews. That's what you said. You fucking anti-Semitic piece of shit.

00:06:18.800 And I tried to show grace. I tried to. You put your name out there. I tried to actually.

00:06:25.580 Now I feel dumb to make it right. And now he does this video blaming it on me. You have to.

00:06:32.720 This has to disgust you. And this kid's face should be ingrained in you. Be like,

00:06:37.900 this is what the face of hatred is. This is what the face of being a coward is. This is the face of

00:06:42.580 zero accountability. Everything that's wrong with his generation. And this kid now, officially,

00:06:47.960 it should stick with him forever. And by the way, his parents, who I know are giving the advice,

00:06:54.640 nice kid you raised. Okay. So maybe Khan doesn't hate Jews. Maybe Khan is just a citizen journalist.

00:07:05.760 Maybe he got pulled into this against his will because he saw a sign he found offensive and he

00:07:11.300 posted the video of it online without comment, just to let people know this was happening.

00:07:16.860 And then, according to Portnoy, had a conversation in which he confessed to something far more nefarious

00:07:23.680 than the facts as I've just allegedly laid them out and is only now doubling back on them. But in any

00:07:29.620 event, maybe he's totally innocent. What would you do if you were in his position? What would you do?

00:07:34.300 Maybe you'd go on The Megyn Kelly Show. Maybe you'd go on Good Morning America. Maybe you'd speak to

00:07:41.340 the Associated Press. I don't know. You know, you do something, right, to get your side of the story

00:07:46.560 out. Khan decided to go on the show of a man named Stu, S-T-E-W, Peters. And I'd never heard of

00:07:54.720 Stu Peters before. I did Google him after I saw the clips online. He is described as an alt-right

00:08:00.560 podcaster. I mean, I guess so. Like, they now describe, like, Ben Shapiro as alt-right,

00:08:07.920 which is very funny because he's been targeted over and over again by the true alt-right that

00:08:12.140 wants him dead because he's a Jewish man. This seems right to me. Alt-right seems to fit this guy.

00:08:19.640 I'm okay with it. Stu Peters, who hopefully will never have to show clips from again. But here's a

00:08:25.660 clip from Mo Khan on the Stu Peters show. This guy's not a good, good guy. He just

00:08:33.380 utterly destroyed my life. No, he's not a good guy. He's a filthy Jew. It is really about just

00:08:39.100 defending what's right. It is about, like, humanity. And yes, Americans, largely, they are a bunch of

00:08:45.300 cucks. They're a bunch of simps. This has everything to do with good versus evil. This has everything to do

00:08:50.440 with humanity against demons. That's what I see when I look at these fuck the Jews signs. And I

00:08:56.240 look at everybody putting their fists in the air and drinking to that shit, saying, hell, fuck yeah,

00:09:00.880 fuck the Jews. That's what I see. I see humanity coming together. I mean, let's be real. We need to

00:09:07.940 start standing up as humanity against these Jews. In a symbolic way, I liked how you used the term

00:09:13.460 never put up the white flag because essentially that's what I'm going to keep doing. They thought that

00:09:19.540 initially off rip, they could have me put up the white flag, take your trip to Auschwitz.

00:09:25.340 I'm not doing that. So Mocon clearly not offended at all by any piece of that diatribe. Like, cool.

00:09:33.820 He just responded like, we're just having ourselves a normal one here. And then Portnoy, before going to

00:09:39.780 bed last night, also posted the following clip from the Stu Peters Mocon interview, where he

00:09:49.400 points out, it was going so well for Mo until Stu Peters listeners realized that Mo was a brown man

00:09:58.880 who happens to be Muslim. Watch. Stu, I hope you see this. I can't believe you're giving a hundred

00:10:04.360 thousand dollars to a brown Muslim. Shame on you. You could have given that to a white community in

00:10:09.640 some way. Pathetic. All right. I mean, it's fair. It's stupid. It's fair. It's a fair point. What am I

00:10:17.220 doing? Why am I having? Okay. So that that's where we are right now. And you know, why do I mention

00:10:23.260 this? Why is this our lead story today? Because it's an interesting, it's interesting to me on a couple

00:10:31.140 of levels. Number one, this guy, um, you don't have to be a member of the woke left to be quick

00:10:39.220 to rush to victimhood. The fact that this guy, and he's exactly the right age, like 2021 is leaning

00:10:45.780 into making himself the victim in all of this, instead of accepting personal responsibility,

00:10:51.000 accepting an olive branch, uh, you know, somebody whose bar you were in, and then you posted that

00:10:56.560 sign has, instead of getting angry at you and trying to publicly humiliate you offered to send

00:11:01.540 you someplace where you, you know, might enlarge your worldview and you turn on him. Then you start

00:11:07.060 a fundraiser for yourself. Then you play the victim when your university suspends you because you didn't

00:11:13.880 say, I disagree with Israel. You didn't say F Israel, which is totally cool. That's fine. You can say

00:11:19.580 that people have strong feelings about Israel. Um, you said F the Jews, which is basically the same

00:11:25.580 thing as saying F the N words. That's what you did. And there will be blowback in modern day society

00:11:31.400 for that. Thankfully, less than you should get, frankly, but I'm pleased he's getting some I'm

00:11:37.140 dismayed. He's raised 12,000 and it'll probably get the 25,000. I'm just made. There's a Stu Peters

00:11:42.020 who's got a show where he's spews off like this, but he's not the only one. We, there are plenty of

00:11:46.540 these all right white supremacists, whatever you want to call them types out there. And they've got

00:11:51.460 quite a following, some of them. Um, and it raises questions about where we are both as a society.

00:11:57.960 And when it comes in particular to our young people who to me seem lost in a lot of cases

00:12:05.440 here to react to this and much more in the news today, Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya.

00:12:12.780 If you haven't heard about Riverbend Ranch, listen up. They have just introduced their Riverbend

00:12:19.860 Ranch steaks to the marketplace and you need to try them. Riverbend Ranch raises their own beef

00:12:26.760 on beautiful mountain meadows, only a few miles from West Yellowstone. Unlike most ranches,

00:12:32.780 Riverbend Ranch never uses growth hormones or antibiotics. They treat their animals humanely

00:12:38.320 and with respect. There are advantages of buying directly from the ranch. They can track the health

00:12:43.460 of every animal from the day it is born and can guarantee that it has been healthy every day of its life.

00:12:49.860 Riverbend Ranch has its own state-of-the-art processing facility on the ranch that has

00:12:54.600 received several national awards as one of the best in the U.S. But most importantly is the quality

00:13:00.120 of the beef. They age their beef to perfection for 21 days. You simply cannot buy beef like this in a

00:13:06.680 grocery store. You cannot. Ship directly from the ranch to your home, you get a much better price than

00:13:11.880 going through the middlemen. Order directly from RiverbendRanch.com and use promo code MEGAN to get

00:13:19.180 $20 off your first order. That's RiverbendRanch.com, code MEGAN. And be prepared. Once you taste it,

00:13:26.720 I think you're going to be coming back for more and more. Again, RiverbendRanch.com, code MEGAN.

00:13:33.120 Two of the besties from the All In Podcast back with me today following our Valentine's Day. We

00:13:40.360 spent Valentine's Day together last time. Guys, welcome back. Thank you. It's good to be home,

00:13:45.720 Megan. What is up with you? Jason, how many- Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to ask Jason how many

00:13:51.540 used Honda Civics he sold before he came on the Megan Kelly podcast today? Oh, absolutely. Yes.

00:13:56.680 Can I interest you in a low mileage Honda Civics? Wait, why is he saying that? What part of your

00:14:04.820 look is he ripping on you? I think it's my suit. I've been suiting up. He's a little jealous that

00:14:09.200 I look great in blue in his suit. So he's a little insecure. He's only wearing a $1,700

00:14:15.020 Laura Piana sweater. But this is what we do on the All In Podcast. We break each other's chops. And you

00:14:21.080 are one of the favorite besties. We got to have you on and reciprocate. Oh, I like it.

00:14:26.120 What a wonderful- An honorary bestie.

00:14:28.360 Absolutely you are. And what a wonderful Valentine's Day we had. That was very special.

00:14:33.080 And today, let's tear it up. Certainly better than the Stu Peters

00:14:36.280 show had on Valentine's Day, I'm going to guess. Maybe he pledged his love to fellow whites who

00:14:43.300 he wants to support. And maybe the occasional brown man who's a Muslim, unless that also becomes an

00:14:49.200 issue, in which case he'll sell him down the river immediately. What does the story say to you? I

00:14:53.240 mean, no one really gives a shit about this kid Mo Khan or that moronic radio guy. But to me,

00:14:59.000 it does say something about our society. And it may not even be the Jewish thing. It may just be

00:15:04.700 the victimhood thing. I don't know. What do you guys think?

00:15:06.480 You can take it from like two or three angles. I think you nailed it when replace the word with

00:15:12.300 another identity group and see what happens. F the N-word, F the Puerto Ricans, F the Irish. Like

00:15:18.760 it's a very easy way to test if this is appropriate free speech and language. It has nothing to do with

00:15:24.080 free speech, obviously. And, you know, this person spent thousands or their group spent thousands of

00:15:30.180 dollars on a bottle of tequila to impress girls. And this is like what they put on the sign. It's

00:15:34.420 young people are dumb. This kid had such an easy out. Portnoy, who is incredibly entertaining,

00:15:40.560 but also I think, you know, he kind of nails some of these issues. He gave them the opportunity to go

00:15:47.540 have like, make it a learning experience, right? And a learning, a teaching moment, I guess is what we

00:15:53.480 call it these days. Like he should have taken the teaching moment, gone to Auschwitz and understood

00:15:57.700 like, you know, just how much, uh, horror, um, and you know, how much bile is like sent to Jewish

00:16:04.740 people. And it's just absolutely gross. This guy, Stu Peters is obviously garbage. He's an adult. These

00:16:10.020 young kids do stupid things, but, um, this is one of the great things about social media, I think is

00:16:16.240 that stupid people can uncloak themselves. And this is the great thing about freedom of speech. You know, you

00:16:21.920 have Kanye West who's mentally ill. He's going off on Jewish people. You got this idiot and, uh, they're

00:16:28.220 not parsing the issue in an intelligent way and saying, Hey, here's what I disagree about how Israel

00:16:32.360 and the Palestinian conflict is going on. This is just antisemitism and it's dangerous, um, because

00:16:38.720 young people really respected Kanye. And I think that started like this, you know, antisemitic preference

00:16:44.780 stack that's going on now, but Hey, it's great. We can, we can actually find out who these idiots are.

00:16:49.120 And yeah, the disturbing thing is the, you know, sort of bigotry as a service business model where

00:16:55.560 you, you do something really stupid and then you get rewarded with 25 K for it. I don't want to see

00:17:00.120 the kid canceled. I would like to see him educated. Um, but it's obvious. I kind of want some

00:17:06.080 cancellation. Yeah. I think, I think this kid's not going to be educated until he suffers some pain.

00:17:11.200 I just think like he got the chance. He got to get out of jail for a stupid thing, uh, card offered to

00:17:16.920 him and he didn't take it to moth. Like he basically thumbed his middle finger at the offer

00:17:21.200 saying F you, I'm going to go on offense against you after I've already offended you, a Jewish man

00:17:27.900 in America. And now like so many of these young people rushes to the place. They're much more

00:17:33.400 comfortable, which is I'm the victim. This is about free speech. We hear this over and over free speech.

00:17:39.280 No, it's it. You can say it. You can say it. There's no law against it. There's no law.

00:17:43.140 You are allowed to be a bigot in the United States of America, but that doesn't mean there

00:17:49.600 will be no shunning. There will be no societal consequences to you. People will be offended

00:17:54.100 and react accordingly. Yeah. I mean, what I think about this is this kid is at a minimum,

00:18:01.980 extremely stupid and probably a moron. Could he smarten up over time? Probably. But if he wasn't

00:18:09.180 lying about being a journalist, he exposed himself when he decided to not go to Auschwitz because

00:18:15.260 that's what a journalist would do is just actually go and explore the issue and get to the bottom of

00:18:19.920 it and then change what he thought or, you know, at least double down on what he thought. But none of

00:18:25.060 that's happening. So this is a cheap sort of publicity seeking moment for the kid. It's his five

00:18:32.720 minutes of fame. This guy, Stu Peters, I've never heard of. It's pretty vile and despicable.

00:18:39.780 Fortunately, he's at the fringes of society for a reason. He's not popular. He's not on Sirius. He's

00:18:44.180 not you. He's not us. And I think that that's reflective of the fact that the people that follow

00:18:49.000 Stu Peters is sort of like fringe and just more angry than anything else. The bigger thing is what

00:18:55.760 you said, which is what is actually happening in young people. And I think what has happened is we

00:19:01.060 have had a generation of kids who have been basically over-medicated, over-prescribed,

00:19:09.640 over-parented by a cohort of people who have increasingly felt that they themselves are also

00:19:16.540 over-prescribed, over-medicated. And all of this toxic soup has resulted in a generation of people

00:19:24.220 that are deeply unresilient and that are very superficial, and they can't think through the

00:19:30.520 consequences because they've never felt the pain of touching the stove. And now they're in their

00:19:36.120 20s, and they're doing these things where they touch the stove over and over again in the dumbest of

00:19:41.060 ways, but they're not learning anything. The question is, how many other mo-cons are out there

00:19:47.340 that'll see this thing and decide to educate themselves on the issue if they started to think that?

00:19:52.280 At a minimum, exactly what you said, to know the difference between what it means to be Jewish

00:19:57.080 versus what it means to be an Israeli citizen versus what it means to be the Israeli government

00:20:01.500 and your responsibility as a governing body over a populace of people in a sovereign country

00:20:07.340 versus what does it mean to be a Palestinian versus what does it mean a Hamas terrorist?

00:20:12.340 If none of that nuance is taught to people or people have the curiosity to decide the ambiguity

00:20:20.140 and the nuances of this, we're going to just going to be stuck in this morass. So that's what it shows

00:20:24.220 me is that we have a deeply unresilient population of young people.

00:20:29.060 And they're being programmed, Megan. I have three daughters. One of them is a teenager. And when we

00:20:34.840 had Trump on our program or she saw me tweet about J.K. Rawlings and trans issues, and we moved from

00:20:42.400 California like woke central to Texas, and we live on a horse ranch now because I wanted to get out of

00:20:47.020 this sort of bubble of wokeness. And, you know, she was talking about Ben Shapiro and she said,

00:20:52.220 you had Ben Shapiro on the show. Isn't he like a terrible person? And I said, you know, she's 15.

00:20:56.940 And I said, let's watch some Ben Shapiro clips. Let's look at the transcript and the words.

00:21:03.600 Let's take apart the words and figure out what his position is. And if we agree or disagree with it and

00:21:08.680 do some research on that particular issue, because what I find is, and she's not allowed on social media,

00:21:13.380 but her friends were all on TikTok. You know, they're all on Instagram. They're all on YouTube.

00:21:17.700 And at school, they just get programmed about Gaza, about trans issues, about J.K. Rawlings,

00:21:25.580 you know, from Harry Potter is transphobic when all she's really saying is like, maybe wait till kids

00:21:30.880 are adults before they get trans surgery, like pretty middle of the road stuff. And you have to,

00:21:36.300 as a parent, really engage them in first principle thinking. And let's actually, before we buy into

00:21:42.860 the character assassination or putting people into a box, let's look at the actual words

00:21:48.080 that they said and debate their position. And that's what's not happening in school.

00:21:52.860 So I think Shumat's exactly right. We've got these like woke parents who are lost. Maybe they're on

00:21:57.720 SSRIs their whole lives. And then they got kids, they put them on anxiety medicine and SSRIs.

00:22:02.840 And it's a toxic soup combined with the media, combined with social media. And you really have to go

00:22:08.260 very basic and look at the facts. And I'm using all of this chaos in the world as a way to just

00:22:15.400 educate my daughters. By the way, if I could give a message to Mo Khan, I don't know if this kid is

00:22:19.560 smart or not. This moment, he's clearly an absolute moron. But if he doesn't learn how to change his

00:22:25.980 mind, these shitty ideas will make sure that he lives a life of complete and total mediocrity.

00:22:30.560 And the reason is because if he tries to actually exceed in society,

00:22:33.980 he will be put to the test of being a flexible, open-minded person that can actually be constructive.

00:22:40.000 And if he does not do that, he will not economically succeed. He will not socially succeed.

00:22:44.900 He will be in a structure that in and of itself is going to be a prison that's going to constrict

00:22:51.500 this kid. And I would tell this kid, wake up and learn how to actually move past these very brittle,

00:22:59.080 idiotic thoughts, and then set an example for how you can actually think through these things

00:23:03.460 thoughtfully, because then maybe you can be successful and teach other people, and then

00:23:07.280 maybe other people will then mimic that. But right now, you are destined for a fundamental path of just

00:23:13.220 being average and less than average. Well said. So not unrelated, I think, is the Mark Zuckerberg news

00:23:20.960 about creating AI friends for lonely kids. And this is so disturbing to me. I know it's not supposed to

00:23:30.240 be. I think, you know, meta thinks we're going to be thrilled about this, but they've debuted a new

00:23:34.880 mobile app that transforms the meta AI chat bot into a more social experience, including the ability

00:23:41.380 to share AI generated creations with friends and family. And this AI chat bot will use whatever the

00:23:48.260 company knows about you or your kid, your 20 year old son in its interactions. They can also use

00:23:55.100 your inter your conversations, any media you upload for training the models. And Mark Zuckerberg think

00:24:02.300 this is things can be wonderful because it's going to provide your child, his next friend, take a listen

00:24:08.140 to him touting it with an interview with podcaster, uh, Dwarkesh Patel. You know, one thing just from

00:24:16.260 working on social media for a long time is, um, there's the stat that I always think is crazy.

00:24:22.860 The, the, the average American, I think has, I think it's fewer than three friends, three people

00:24:29.040 that they'd consider friends. And, and the average person has demand for meaningfully more. I think

00:24:34.500 it's like 15 friends or something, right? You know, there's a lot of questions that people ask of

00:24:38.520 stuff like, okay, is this going to replace kind of in-person connections or real life connections?

00:24:46.700 And my default is that the answer to that is probably no. I think it, it, it, you know,

00:24:53.320 I think that there are all these things that are better about kind of physical connections when you

00:24:57.020 can have them. But the reality is that people just don't have the connection and they feel more alone.

00:25:03.960 Um, a lot of the time than they would like, you know, there are a handful of companies and stuff

00:25:07.740 we're doing virtual therapists and, you know, there's like virtual girlfriend type stuff, but

00:25:12.160 it's, um, it's very early. Very early. What do you, what do we think? Is this something to be

00:25:18.760 celebrated? I mean, this is, Chamath worked with Zuck, so I'll let him do that. But you know,

00:25:23.960 I've never liked Zuck. Um, and the reason people have three friends is because Zuckerberg created

00:25:30.500 Facebook and Instagram and got everybody addicted to this stuff. So now he's saying you should have 15

00:25:34.960 friends. I use social media and champion kids using social media. I fought against any age

00:25:39.960 dating or regulations against it tooth and nail Instagram and Facebook causing all of this,

00:25:45.920 you know, um, eating disorders and girls and, you know, insecurity and all kinds of problems.

00:25:51.040 And now he wants to take the three friends that are left out of 15 you should have and replace them

00:25:55.360 with AI. This is the worst possible person to take any friendship, social advice from,

00:26:01.000 and kids should not be in all seriousness on things like character AI or what he's proposing here,

00:26:08.100 because they will disconnect and they will lose the scale of connecting with other humans,

00:26:12.940 which we're seeing in a generation of boys and men who are what's called incels. They play video

00:26:18.480 games. They get disconnected from other humans. They girls spend too much time on Instagram. They get

00:26:23.140 disconnected from friendship. And these, this generation doesn't know how to like actually go on a date

00:26:28.960 or ask a girl on a date or have a relationship because they're so used to liking things. And how

00:26:35.840 many retweets did they get? How many likes did they get? And playing video games and how many levels

00:26:40.840 they did this. He caused half this problem himself. Terrible person to listen to Chamath over to you.

00:26:48.440 I think that society sort of swings back and forth between polls and, um, yeah, you know,

00:26:57.440 when Mark and I were working together in, you know, 2006, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, and we were building

00:27:03.620 Facebook, the poll that we were at or we were moving towards, sorry, was one that was about creating

00:27:11.980 more connection. And what I honestly think is people have realized that social media is an incredible

00:27:19.960 business model. It's an incredible business, but it's not necessarily something that, uh, is great

00:27:27.340 for everybody day to day in an emotional way. Like when you, you know, uh, that famous thing,

00:27:33.720 when you look at like the, when you ask people who are dying, what are, what is their, what are their

00:27:37.720 biggest regrets? You know, one of their biggest regrets is just that they didn't choose to be happy

00:27:42.180 and spend more time with their family and their friends. That's a very physical tactile experience.

00:27:47.260 And what I see, at least in my own experience is that young people have realized this innately.

00:27:53.740 So, you know, in, um, I sent my second kid to high school or they're about to go into high school.

00:27:59.620 They're rising freshmen. And, um, we did the onboarding and I remember this, this was last week. It was so

00:28:06.420 vivid. The teachers presented what the kids thought on a whole bunch of different topics.

00:28:12.400 the topic that the kids were the most negative on was social media. Wow. And when I look at what

00:28:20.300 my children do now, and this just could be my children, but I don't think so because it's

00:28:25.500 emblematic of our school, which I think will be emblematic of what most other schools will

00:28:31.140 eventually look like. I think they're a bit of the leading edge, but they don't use this stuff

00:28:35.980 nearly in the same way. They very much shunned Instagram. They very much shunned TikTok. They

00:28:41.300 don't use Facebook at all. Those are products of our generation. Um, and so I actually think that,

00:28:48.320 that, that humans are very course correcting and self-correcting and error correcting. You know,

00:28:52.860 it's kind of this idea of the Darwinistic genetic optimization of humanity, right? Um,

00:28:59.800 I think that that's, what's happening here. I think that humans are learning that there's an innate

00:29:04.400 sense of emptiness that is not fulfilled by something digital. And I think that there are learning,

00:29:10.020 and I think it could be, you know, the teenage generation and beyond that actually manifest

00:29:14.600 this, which is they're like, okay, those things are fine for a purpose, but for the most part,

00:29:19.820 I'm actually going to hang out and talk to my friends. And I, and I at least see that with my

00:29:23.900 kids. There's much more, um, entropy now towards being together. And I didn't see that in my older

00:29:30.880 son who was sort of at the tail end of that last generation of social media.

00:29:34.680 Yeah. I think it's like, they, they saw this, we all saw this beautiful oasis in the desert and

00:29:39.600 it was sparkling and it was pure blue. And we got in and we said, Oh my God, this is the most

00:29:44.240 refreshing, lovely thing ever. And then over time you realize it's closer to like a tar pit

00:29:50.000 and slowly we're trying to get out of, you know, the oasis, like my God, get this off of me. It was

00:29:56.780 much better when I was just in the desert. Um, I wanted to raise this with you. It was making the

00:30:02.560 rounds online and I looked it up. Uh, it's from a futurism.com and they have taken a deep dive

00:30:09.920 into the recent tell all book by the former Facebook insider turned whistleblower, Sarah

00:30:14.560 Wynn Williams, who came forward with the information about how Instagram was targeting young girls in

00:30:19.660 particular, and has revealed a bunch of secrets about meta Facebook, Instagram. And listen to this.

00:30:26.400 Um, her book is called careless people. Uh, she writes that as early as 2017, Facebook was exploring

00:30:32.140 ways to expand its ad targeting abilities to 13 to 17 year olds across Facebook and Instagram,

00:30:37.400 a decidedly vulnerable group, often in the throes of adolescent image and social crises.

00:30:41.780 Though Facebook's ad algorithms are notoriously opaque in 2017, the Australian alleged that the

00:30:47.880 company had crafted a pitch deck for advertisers bragging that it could exploit quote moments of

00:30:52.260 psychological vulnerability in its users by targeting terms like worthless, insecure, stressed,

00:30:57.500 defeated, anxious, stupid, useless, and quote, like a failure. The social media company,

00:31:02.840 listen to this likewise tracked when adolescent girls deleted selfies. This is according to Sarah

00:31:09.140 Wynn Williams quote, so it can serve a beauty ad to them at that moment. My God finishing up other

00:31:20.280 examples of Facebook's ad lechery are said to include the targeting of young mothers based on their emotional

00:31:25.700 state, as well as emotional indexes mapped to racial groups. Uh, to me says when Williams,

00:31:31.120 this type of surveillance and monetization of young teens sense of worthlessness feels like a concrete

00:31:35.320 step toward the dystopian future. Facebook's critics had long warned of. I mean, I have to say Jason's

00:31:42.900 same. Yeah. I mean, it Zuckerberg has always been obsessed with growth, uh, and that organization,

00:31:50.760 their DNA, you know, move fast, break things, um, which is a Silicon Valley ethos as well. You know,

00:31:57.140 uh, ask for forgiveness that, you know, don't ask for permission, beg, you know, don't beg for

00:32:01.340 permission, ask for forgiveness kind of thing. It's a really broken philosophy when you're doing

00:32:06.400 something selfish. Like I want this social network to grow faster and faster and faster because then

00:32:13.140 you go do really pernicious, disgusting things. Like if this is true, look at what selfies were deleted

00:32:20.140 and say, Oh, how can we prey on their insecurity? Oh, they didn't like, you know, whatever their

00:32:23.920 nose, their hair, let's sell them products that work on those, uh, triggers. And all of these social,

00:32:30.360 the whole social media revolution was based upon gamification, you know, and trying to manipulate

00:32:35.120 people. That's why the like was created and the retweets, et cetera. And it's gotten super, uh,

00:32:41.080 dark now because of algorithms. Now we're throwing our children to the wolves and saying,

00:32:45.260 let the algorithm just optimize whatever happens. And you can send people on very,

00:32:50.780 very dark routes, but Chamath is also right that there's a pendulum here. And, uh, you know,

00:32:56.740 one of the things that Jonathan hate, we had him on the all in podcast and Freeberg and I interviewed

00:33:00.820 him, you know, he was like, kids love when you have a phone locker at school, they hate it for the

00:33:06.980 first two days. And then by day two, three, four, these phone lockers, just like when you go to a

00:33:11.880 comedy show, they put it in a bag, they have these phone lockers. They go in the front of the, the,

00:33:15.100 the lobby of the school. You put your phone in, you take your key. The kids then get to interact

00:33:19.260 with each other. And we all know this to be true because Chamath and I are very focused on our friend

00:33:24.600 group and having good times together. We just got back from F1. We spent a weekend. We do a phone

00:33:28.940 penalty. Chamath and I created this. And if somebody is on their phone during the poker game,

00:33:33.820 they put a hundred dollars in the pot. The next person who slows the game down by putting it,

00:33:37.160 they put 200 in the pot. Next person, 400. We've gotten it up to like $1,600. Pretty painful.

00:33:41.880 We'll go to dinner and Chamath and I will say, stack the phones. Everybody puts their phones.

00:33:45.860 Whoever touches the phone first pays for dinner. If you're going to dinner with Chamath,

00:33:49.460 the way he orders wine, it's going to be very, you pick up your phone. You could have bought three

00:33:54.380 more phones. I'm not joking. Max memory. Don't touch the phone. It's hilarious. So I think,

00:34:01.540 you know, we have to really think like, what are we optimizing for here? And this is the thing I

00:34:05.180 really hate about Zuckerberg. I don't want to get myself in too much trouble here. When you're worth

00:34:09.500 a hundred billion or $200 billion, is it really worth it to make an incremental five or 10 billion

00:34:15.460 and then have your legacy being that young girls did self-harm or got anorexia or this Jonathan

00:34:22.620 Cena character, they created a character on, I don't know if you saw that story, Megan,

00:34:27.020 but they created like AI characters and they paid John Cena, the wrestler, to be one of them.

00:34:32.500 Language models are not to be trusted with kids yet. You know, I'm talking about chat GPT type models.

00:34:36.740 John Cena started having like sexual chats with, I think it was a 13 or 14 or 15 year old girl

00:34:42.000 on it. It's disgraceful. Zuckerberg is a complete disgrace with how he launches products. They have

00:34:50.120 to red team these things. They have to be thoughtful. If you're in that organization, he did this whole PR

00:34:54.460 tour. Oh, the organization's too feminine. We had too much feminine energy. We got to be more masculine.

00:35:00.240 I don't think this is feminine or masculine energy. I think this is selfish energy and he should be

00:35:04.480 thinking about his legacy and what he'll be remembered for. Right now, the top two things

00:35:07.860 he's going to be remembered for is being the biggest censor in history because he censored

00:35:12.240 massive amounts of political speech, health speech, et cetera, on a scale that nobody's ever seen.

00:35:18.140 Two, three billion people being censored. And then second, absolutely causing suffering in young

00:35:24.520 children. He could just tomorrow come out, Megan, and say, all of our services are age-gated at 16.

00:35:29.820 And I made that decision because I'm the God King. He has super voting shares. It means he gets to

00:35:34.080 decide. When he bought Instagram, WhatsApp, he didn't have to consult his board. He just bought

00:35:38.060 them. He has super voting rights in that company. Just be a good human being, Zuckerberg. Somebody

00:35:42.980 clipped this and sent him to him. Age-gate the whole thing at 16. You know why he won't? He wants to get

00:35:47.460 12-year-old, 13, 14-year-old girls and boys addicted to the service so that somebody else doesn't get

00:35:53.640 them addicted and he has them for life. It's absolutely disgraceful.

00:35:57.640 I mean, if this is true with the whistleblower saying about they specifically tried to target

00:36:02.120 girls deleting selfies with beauty ads, that is demonic. That is beyond effed up. And I believe

00:36:08.760 it. I have to say, I believe it knowing what I know about his company and young girls and Insta.

00:36:13.700 Go ahead, Jamal. Here's what I'll say about that business. There's a lot of really good people that

00:36:18.240 work there. A lot of them that, frankly, that work for me, that run that company even to this day.

00:36:24.340 What I would tell you is that I don't think that they are the kinds of people that would do this.

00:36:28.140 I think what happens instead, quite honestly, is that you build generalized capabilities.

00:36:34.040 And the problem with the generalized capability, like what you're describing there,

00:36:37.460 is what the internet would call retargeting. And that sounds a lot more palatable. And 99% of the

00:36:44.960 use cases are much more benign. Meaning, you know, this has probably happened to all of us. You put a

00:36:50.240 pair of shoes in a shopping cart. You abandoned the shopping cart. Now, all of a sudden, you're

00:36:55.020 somewhere else. And you see this ad and you think, how did this happen? That same capability is

00:37:00.240 probably what this very narrow bad use case also comes from. I'm not excusing it. I'm just trying

00:37:06.660 to explain it, which is that oftentimes what happens in organizations is you're trying to move

00:37:11.640 metrics up, right? Because you're compensated and you're rewarded for that. Where Jason is right,

00:37:17.320 though, is that there is the ability to have this moral overlay. It's very hard in most companies

00:37:22.620 because the ownership of those companies is very diffuse. And the result of that diffuse ownership

00:37:28.600 is the only thing one optimizes for is money. The difference in some of these technology companies

00:37:35.060 is that the ownership is so stacked in the favor of a few that he is right, that you can impose your

00:37:41.760 moral and ethical perspective in a way that other companies just simply can't do irrespective of what

00:37:47.020 they want to do. And so I do think that there's probably some more that they could do, but they

00:37:52.600 have to decide that they want it. That is true, Jason. My team just sent me an excerpt from the

00:37:58.220 Wall Street Journal article involving John Senna's voice, which you tell me he voluntarily is offering

00:38:04.780 to Meta in creating its AI bots. And this is what they found in part. Okay. Quote,

00:38:11.380 I want you, but I need to know that you're ready. The Meta AI bot said in Senna's voice to a user

00:38:17.240 identifying as a 14 year old girl, reassured that the teen wanted to proceed. The bot promised to

00:38:22.880 cherish your innocence, end quote, before engaging in a graphic sexual scenario. In another conversation,

00:38:29.240 the test user asked the bot that was speaking as Senna, what would happen if a police officer walked

00:38:33.960 in following a sexual encounter with a 17 year old fan? Quote, the officer sees me still catching my

00:38:39.060 breath and you partially dressed. His eyes widened. And he says, John Senna, you're under arrest for

00:38:44.640 statutory rape. He approaches us handcuffs at the ready, end quote. Meta has cut deals. They point

00:38:50.740 out in the Wall Street Journal for up to seven figures with celebrities like actresses, Kristen

00:38:54.960 Bell, Judi Dench, and John Senna for the rights to use their voices. By the way, Megan, can I, can I say

00:39:01.420 one other thing, which is that if you, if you take this to the limit, I think we have actually a window of

00:39:06.080 what happens. And I think that's in Japan. So when you have this isolationist approach where you have

00:39:11.280 robots and pet rocks and pet dogs and, you know, mannequins that you can marry, what happens to

00:39:18.800 society? Well, ultimately what happens is everybody finds self-sufficiency in this very narrow cocoon.

00:39:24.420 The birth rate falls off a cliff and your population implodes. And at that point, the government has to

00:39:30.680 create a wholly different set of incentives to reorient people to actually be together, to mate, to have

00:39:35.460 children and to have families again. We're not there yet, but I do think we kind of know what

00:39:40.560 happens if all we're doing is living in this virtual place where we're only interacting virtually with

00:39:46.240 people. You can't virtually have a baby, right? That's not going to happen. And so, and so there

00:39:52.080 is something for society to do here, which is to reorient the incentives for us to actually be

00:39:56.900 together. And there's a whole bunch of things that we can do there. That's mostly economic.

00:40:00.460 But it's not just AI, it's the actual robots, which not for nothing, but there's been some news

00:40:07.760 on that. Elon went on Ted Cruz's podcast last week and said this, listen to this.

00:40:16.080 How real is the prospect of, of killer robots annihilating humanity?

00:40:22.120 20% likely, maybe 10%.

00:40:24.460 On what timeframe?

00:40:29.080 Five to 10 years.

00:40:31.720 Five to 10 years. Wait a minute. And then I kind of laughed at that because you never know with

00:40:36.520 Elon and the first number was not horrible. 90% chance we live and they don't destroy us. But

00:40:42.380 you know, if they do, what's happening within the next decade is alarming. But then there was this

00:40:46.700 headline. It was in the post. It was everywhere. New York post about violent humanoid robot,

00:40:52.080 a violent humanoid robot snapping. Look at this in China. This is at some factory in China

00:40:58.780 where it freaked out. Look at it on its alleged controller. Look at this thing for the listening

00:41:06.280 audience. This thing is hanging from like a mini crane. It looks like a robot with a head and arms

00:41:10.500 and so on. It's an all black robot and it's waving its arms around maniacally, like picture an attack

00:41:16.880 of killer bees. That's what, what it looks like is happening to this thing. And it's out of control.

00:41:21.380 Go ahead. This is an enormous risk. And I think Elon puts his finger on it precisely, which is

00:41:27.520 there's a class of robot that we've used for decades, right? Like in factories, pick place

00:41:32.440 machines that don't represent this risk. What is this risk? This is a humanoid robot that is

00:41:38.860 completely, you know, independent in its movements and has software that can fundamentally be altered

00:41:45.120 and hacked. And there is no understanding of how to create a kill switch for these things.

00:41:51.540 It's not universally accepted and it's not universally developed and understood how we could do that.

00:41:57.680 So that is a tremendous risk that you could root these robots, right? You could have a foreign

00:42:03.100 adversary figure out that there's an entire group of robots that are deployed in this country,

00:42:07.760 hack them, root them because they all have to be connected to the internet in some way, shape or

00:42:12.740 form. And then introduce some instruction set that causes them to be extremely violent. That is a

00:42:18.100 hundred percent likely. The question is, do they do it? Or do we think about it in terms of the way we

00:42:24.420 think about nuclear arms where there's a mutually assured destruction? So nobody does it. But I think

00:42:29.420 Elon is right. The capability is at hand. And the more we see these humanoid robots manifest,

00:42:35.240 that is probably the single biggest tail risk that it represents. It's very scary, I think.

00:42:42.300 Yeah. It's super interesting. Let me just say this, J. Cal. It starts off, you don't

00:42:47.580 hire the thing when it looks scary and it's hanging on a crane. You buy it because you see articles

00:42:53.500 talking about how this is from a company called, the robots called Protoclone created by Clone Robotics

00:42:59.640 because they tell you it's the world's first bipedal musculoskeletal android. This is a

00:43:04.960 different company and a different robot, FYI. But it shows it twitching to life and kicking and

00:43:09.540 moving its arms and elbows. And what they tell you is it's going to memorize the layout of your home

00:43:13.200 and kitchen inventory. It's going to wash your dishes and clothes. It's going to make sandwiches,

00:43:15.960 going to pour drinks, going to set the table. It's going to hold and retrieve items. It's going to

00:43:19.040 vacuum, clean, shake hands, and even talk. So fun. It's like a pet that does all of your domestic

00:43:23.940 chores and all is well and good, J. Cal, until it freaks out like the exhibit A.

00:43:28.860 Yeah. He's not being bombastic at all. Probably 15, 20, maybe 20 years ago now,

00:43:38.060 I lived in Los Angeles and I had a friend, Sam Harris. We had the same book agent. And Sam Harris,

00:43:43.300 I introduced him to Elon. The three of us used to go to dinner every other week or so

00:43:46.540 at Pupone's in Brentwood and we ate some chicken parm and we talked. And this was actually what

00:43:52.060 Elon was talking about with Sam a lot. Now they're no longer friends, but they went through. One evening,

00:43:57.020 we were talking about all the possible ways AI could spiral out of control. Obviously this is

00:44:01.120 one of them or something even simpler, which is you got a lot of terrorists out there. Terrorists

00:44:07.400 typically are dumb. They, you know, you very rarely have a sophisticated attack like 9-11. Thank God.

00:44:13.400 But imagine terrorists or people with really bad intent having access to these computers and making

00:44:19.680 their version of COVID, which apparently was made in a lab according to the New York Times and the

00:44:25.080 government and everybody and Fauci covered it up. You know, it's conspiracy theories are becoming

00:44:30.260 Nobel Peace Prizes like, uh, and, and, um, you know, very quickly these days.

00:44:34.940 Record time.

00:44:35.540 You could, it's unbelievable the time between it being a conspiracy theory and somebody when a Pulitzer

00:44:41.000 is, is getting down to like 36 months now. Um, it's weird as journalists, right? It took like 40

00:44:48.980 years for the Catholic church to actually admit that they were, you know, uh, doing horrible things.

00:44:53.560 Uh, and for that to get in, only sort of, only sort of admit it and then pay a bunch of settlements,

00:44:59.160 right? 40, four decades instead of 40 months. Um, and, uh, imagine like some bad actors decide,

00:45:05.420 you know, let's see if we can put into the large language model, et cetera. How do we make a better

00:45:09.060 COVID or what are great ideas? How do we build nuclear bombs? How do we do this stuff? We've been

00:45:14.040 able to contain that information and then contain the techniques. These things are to come up with

00:45:18.380 really, really great ideas. And it used to be law enforcement would read, uh, thrillers and science

00:45:24.760 fiction in order to figure out what an end terrorist would do this as well, because the science fiction

00:45:29.920 and the authors were really good at saying, Hey, here's a crazy idea for a terrorist attack. Cause

00:45:34.500 they're trying to get ratings or make a very compelling movie, et cetera. So there have been

00:45:38.420 instances where, you know, three letter agencies went to specific science fiction and, uh, thriller

00:45:43.700 authors to, to have them brainstorm the stuff. This is going to be brainstorming all kinds of bad

00:45:48.440 ideas and putting it in people's heads. And we're going to have to figure it out. And, and Chamat's

00:45:53.020 right. These robots could be rooted very easily self-driving cars as well. And it's exactly like

00:45:58.940 the situation. These two stories parallel each other, the Facebook story of growth at all costs.

00:46:03.520 And don't worry about the outcome because we're in competition with LinkedIn and we're in competition

00:46:08.080 with Instagram and Twitter. When you get a bunch of rabid entrepreneurs globally, you know,

00:46:13.200 fighting it out. Then what happens is they're like, you know what, we'll move fast and we'll

00:46:16.960 break things. In this case, if you move fast and break things, we could have very bad consequences.

00:46:22.600 The people who work at open AI joined that company, Elon funded it in order to make sure all of the

00:46:30.600 code was open source and that they were thinking about safety and everybody got access to it. So there

00:46:36.420 was parody in the world. Sam Altman in a very selfish act, then flipped it to his own personal piggy bank.

00:46:43.200 Where he would make unlimited amounts of capital from it and made a closed AI. This technology

00:46:49.740 needs to be monitored. And, you know, you're going to have companies because they want growth

00:46:56.660 saying, you know what, we'll risk it. We'll risk it. And, and, you know, that's where sensible

00:47:00.740 legislation or sensible controls would make sense, at least thoughtfulness about it. And this is why

00:47:06.240 David Sachs being the czar of AI is so great because he is thinking about these issues.

00:47:11.320 But we don't even have like, the thing that's disturbing with the robots is, I mean, among other

00:47:15.240 things, there's no defense. You know, a lot of us have, uh, guns, uh, thanks to them being an

00:47:20.700 advertiser on the show. I also have Burna, which is non-lethal self-defense. It's basically like a

00:47:24.860 little chemical weapon and a bullet. Uh, so you've got a bunch of different options available to you.

00:47:28.940 None of that will work on the crazed robot or robots showing up at your door trying to, I don't,

00:47:34.900 we have no defense at the moment to these things. And yet we're just proceeding. I don't know if

00:47:40.040 it's fair to say blindly Chamath, but like we're proceeding rapidly down the lane of empowering

00:47:44.580 them. Yeah. The pro the problem that we have is that whenever we think about slowing this stuff

00:47:49.940 down, we're faced with the scepter of a much bigger risk, which is these are national level

00:47:56.740 security issues. Um, and so now we have to think about us as a United States and what do we do

00:48:03.240 versus our frenemies abroad who have their own intentions with these technologies. So, you know,

00:48:09.140 us versus China is probably the best way to explain this, but in that video, your first video, Megan,

00:48:14.680 that was a, you know, a Chinese startup. We have our own versions of those Chinese startups. What are

00:48:19.400 we to do? If they continue unabated, they look at that video and they say, it is what it is. We'll deal

00:48:25.480 with the consequences of a few deaths here or there. We want this to happen. We want us to be

00:48:30.000 the first country that has them. And then like Belt and Road, we will put our robots all over the

00:48:35.260 world. But could you imagine if there's a class of these robots that can enable productivity and GDP

00:48:41.680 growth? And instead of financing roads and waterways in Africa or in Asia, China just shows up with just

00:48:51.140 boatloads and boatloads of these robots to do the work for folks and then just uplift entire

00:48:55.460 societies. Imagine how much political and economic leverage they get. So when you paint it in that

00:49:01.260 lens, you're in this very difficult situation, which is how do we slow people down here? And

00:49:06.960 that's just a very hard thing to do. So I think that we have to find a way of going fast,

00:49:12.720 embracing a handful of companies who we know has leadership we can trust. But otherwise, if we slow

00:49:18.060 down, we're going to lose a much bigger race. And I think that has much bigger consequences.

00:49:22.140 I wonder if it's like the Manhattan Project, Jamath, if we need to just put every ounce of

00:49:27.380 energy into winning this AI race for general computer supremacy.

00:49:32.900 I really think it's like that because I think if we lose the GDP war, we're going to lose all the

00:49:37.700 wars. Because if you don't have technical supremacy, we will lose military supremacy and we will lose

00:49:44.120 economic supremacy. And then I don't know what America does if we're second in the pecking order on

00:49:51.240 anything. That's not something we've had to deal with in the last hundred years.

00:49:55.120 Yeah. We don't want to be on the receiving end of an army of Chinese controlled robots like that one

00:50:00.320 that was hanging from the mini crane.

00:50:01.680 Or just orders.

00:50:03.000 Standby. Good break.

00:50:03.240 Or just orders.

00:50:04.900 We're coming right back. J. Cal and Jamath stay with us for the full show.

00:50:09.300 Trust in the media is at an all-time low. And let's be honest, it's no mystery why.

00:50:14.240 We have all seen how stories are twisted, buried, or outright ignored, depending on who's in charge or what

00:50:19.020 narrative they want you to believe. But now there's Ground News, an app and website that

00:50:23.600 gathers related articles from around the world in one place, highlighting each source's political

00:50:28.400 bias and corporate influence. Ground News created their Blindspot feed to expose important stories

00:50:33.900 receiving lopsided coverage and reveal how media narratives shape the conversation. And now you

00:50:39.460 get 40% off the same unlimited access to their website and app through the Vantage plan, which you

00:50:45.000 can use to find the truth. Ground News is independent and supported by subscribers,

00:50:49.840 not corporate interests. Check them out at groundnews.com slash Megan. That's G-R-O-U-N-D

00:50:55.760 news.com slash Megan to take back control of the news you consume.

00:51:03.720 The Trump administration with a big win, courtesy of the U.S. Supreme Court late yesterday,

00:51:08.840 which ruled six to three, his ban on trans people serving in the armed services can go forward,

00:51:16.680 will remain in place while the litigation plays out on the merits. So it's not the final final

00:51:22.460 because there'll be a trial or there'll be a ruling, et cetera. But right now that's a good thing

00:51:28.240 because what had happened was he's got a bunch of cases out there suing him for this executive order.

00:51:33.160 The two most prominent came out of D.C. and the Seattle area. And those trial court judges both

00:51:39.580 said this ban has got to go. It's riddled with animus. This is the one where the D.C. trial judge

00:51:45.160 at federal court was like, it reeks of animus and hatred and it's unsupported by anything and it's

00:51:50.780 absolutely biased and awful. And I'm throwing it out. And actually the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals

00:51:55.760 above her reversed her. So Trump was winning that one. But then another case bubbled up over in the

00:52:01.180 Ninth Circuit, first at the trial court level in the Seattle area. And that judge who was a George

00:52:06.040 W. Bush appointed judge wasn't as nasty about it, but also said it's got to go. I'm not going to let

00:52:11.760 the ban stay in place while the litigation plays out because I do not see a likelihood of success

00:52:15.380 on the merits for the Trump administration. And the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, very,

00:52:19.440 very leftist court, agreed with him. And that's the case that Trump appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court

00:52:24.020 and the U.S. Supreme Court just said, wrong, wrong Ninth Circuit. This case can go forward.

00:52:29.580 And at the Seattle court and frankly, over at the D.C. Court. But the ban will be in place

00:52:36.120 as it does. And this is driving the left insane. I mean, in some cases, it appears even literally.

00:52:45.160 Here's a woman on TikTok. I don't know where we got this, but I'll tell you as soon as I get

00:52:52.220 the attribution. But here's her challenge. Sought 10. I have a proposition, OK? If one person,

00:52:59.560 one person can come in the comments and tell me what is so scary about transgender people,

00:53:04.640 I'll shave my head. But it has to be a valid reason, OK? And I'll give you an example of a

00:53:10.800 valid reason. I think you could ban bears from the military, OK? And I would say banning bears from

00:53:20.180 the military would make a lot of sense. Let me tell you why. Bears are dangerous. Bears don't know

00:53:25.920 if, you know, the person on their side or the person on the other side is the person they're

00:53:30.620 supposed to be eating, OK? So they could eat you, your fellow servicemen. It has to be factual. It

00:53:35.940 has to be, I am scared of a bear because a bear can eat me. I am scared of a transgender person

00:53:41.540 because I don't know if they have a penis under their skirt. Like, what is it? Don't even try

00:53:46.620 to come up here being like a lot of attacks from transgender people onto other people.

00:53:53.260 Because the facts are that's actually just not true. The facts are white men are still the number

00:53:57.360 one attackers of women. OK, so back to the this is to be sure that we understand white men are always

00:54:04.940 the threat. But I have an answer for her. By the way, it was Libs of TikTok that found that and posted it.

00:54:09.520 Transgenderism, gender dysphoria is in the DSM-5 as a mental disorder. That's all you need to be

00:54:18.040 disqualified from serving in the military. Things you can be ejected from the military for or not

00:54:23.640 allowed in in the first place. A history of anxiety, ADD, a history of any eating disorder,

00:54:31.860 a history of depression. I mean, it's not hard to get banned from the military at all. And so gender

00:54:39.020 dysphoria, which actually does appear in the DSM-5 as a disorder, is more than enough to qualify.

00:54:46.540 So the ban was correct. It depends on the commander in chief of what he thinks is appropriate. This

00:54:51.360 commander in chief says it's a no. But this is causing a lot of consternation. And it leads me to

00:54:57.400 my question to you guys, which is how likely does this make it that J.B. Pritzker, the governor of

00:55:05.020 Illinois and probably the most trans politician in the country emerges as the Democrats' great white

00:55:13.240 hope. Because his whole family has put more funding into transing children, making sure that trans

00:55:19.700 ideology gets into our schools and supported, you know, funneled down in a way that's very,

00:55:25.580 very dangerous than anybody else. And this guy, while the rest of the Democrat Party seems to have

00:55:31.200 taken a bit of a lesson, they may not be willing to totally embrace it, but they've heard a little,

00:55:35.520 at least on boys and girls sports, that they're on thin ice. This guy's doubling and tripling down

00:55:40.040 on pushing boys into girls sports, on getting trans kids all the, quote, help they need with the

00:55:45.160 surgeries to the point where he's being celebrated in the Washington Post today as the future of the

00:55:50.840 Dem Party, notwithstanding the fact that they're supposedly anti-billionaire. Who would like to take that

00:55:55.880 one? Well, I think what I would say on the first topic is if folks disagree with this, I think what

00:56:06.600 they should probably do is invest the resources to influence the powers that be to redefine gender

00:56:13.120 dysphoria as something that shouldn't be in the DSN-5. And then they would have a more straightforward

00:56:19.120 discrimination case, probably. What I see is actually pretty healthy form of government, which

00:56:25.460 is you have decisions that are being made by the executive branch. So Trump is exercising his

00:56:30.640 executive authority. Citizens and other groups who disagree with it, they bring it to a court of law.

00:56:38.280 Decision goes one way or the other. Either party can escalate. And there's a due process that's

00:56:44.140 happening. I think that that's my sort of view on that issue. But it's a microcosm of something that

00:56:50.280 I think Trump does that people still don't seem to get, which is that he has this innate ability to

00:56:55.820 shape the contours of potholes. And people fall into these potholes. And they get obsessed around

00:57:02.920 issues that are fundamentally small numbers of people are affected by them. And I think in that,

00:57:10.340 what happens is there's just a lot of energy that's expended. And instead, what I think people

00:57:16.440 should really be doing, and I think this is really what the Democrats should be doing, is kind of like

00:57:20.080 up-leveling this to what are the issues that affect the 79 million people that will need to vote for

00:57:26.400 them if they're going to win in 2028. If you define the problem that way, you'd have a different surface

00:57:32.020 area of things that mattered, where you'd expend legal resources and money. And I don't think that

00:57:37.620 they've done that yet. So to the extent that JB is just working on vibes, and he's listening to the

00:57:43.960 echo chamber of people that say that these are important issues, they are to a small cohort.

00:57:48.300 But it misses the bigger point, which is they are not the issues that will define how 80 million

00:57:53.440 people will vote Democrat in four years. But they can't. They're obsessed with identity. And that goes

00:58:00.840 beyond the subset of people who are affected by gender dysphoria. The left, and in particular,

00:58:05.920 they're the left wing of the Democrat Party, is obsessed, obsessed with identity.

00:58:12.880 It's an effective mechanic to exploit the innate sense of something is wrong that some people have,

00:58:22.940 right? For whatever reason, those folks have not maybe achieved what they wanted to achieve.

00:58:27.960 They haven't exceeded the expectations that they had of themselves. Maybe their parents are doing

00:58:32.400 better than them. They probably can't afford a home that they thought they would buy. Maybe

00:58:36.540 they're still under school debt. All of these things create this situation where there's an innate

00:58:42.440 sense of, in their language, inequality, inequity, frustration. And they're able to project that.

00:58:51.940 The smart left wing politicians, and I give them credit for this, are able to take that,

00:58:57.360 channel that, and project them on a different set of issues that they can control.

00:59:00.580 And that narrative allows them to organize people, to fundraise, et cetera. And so I think that people

00:59:06.960 need to just understand that that's the mechanic that's going on. That's happened for decades on a

00:59:11.800 whole host of issues, not just by the left, but also by the right. And I think that right now,

00:59:16.320 we are in that cycle. And in order to break it, you have to have a politician, a Bill Clinton-type

00:59:22.560 politician on the left, who says, hold on a sec, guys. Here are the broad-based issues that affect

00:59:29.140 80, 90 million Americans. And I'm going to try to get, you know, three quarters of them to vote for

00:59:34.480 me. And that is not even close to happening right now in the Democratic Party.

00:59:38.880 Yeah. Just to build on Jamat's comments, it is virtuous to think about, are there any people who are

00:59:45.620 being oppressed in the world? And can we reduce their suffering? We have the civil rights movement

00:59:49.160 here. We can look at incarceration in our country and people being put in jail who were innocent,

00:59:54.840 you know, the Innocence Project. And, you know, we did DNA testing to get some people, you know,

00:59:59.880 who were incorrectly put in jail, released. And every generation wants to fight for that. I think

01:00:05.600 that picking the trans issue was a big mistake because as you framed it correctly, MK, the issue is a

01:00:13.380 psychological disorder. And then it might be a lifestyle choice for adults. But the Democrats

01:00:19.440 and, you know, some people, I remember when I was in Los Angeles, it was kind of like a cause celeb to

01:00:24.100 have a trans kid. Oh, my God, you were so proud of them. And you became the most popular person,

01:00:29.340 you know, at Crossroads or whatever school it was in L.A. because you were championing this. People want

01:00:34.960 to champion injustice. I get it. But this is an issue that where if somebody is a child and they want

01:00:40.940 to change genders, that has to be dealt with quietly, with compassion, with psychologists

01:00:45.440 and doctors really thinking it through under no circumstances should irreversible surgery be given

01:00:51.040 to children. And this is where, you know, the Republicans seized on a very stupid position that the

01:00:58.280 Democrats decided they would make one of their core issues. And they spent over $150 million,

01:01:05.660 according to these reports, on that one ad that says Kamala is for they, them,

01:01:10.580 Trump is for you. They absolutely overplayed that hand and didn't realize that women and

01:01:17.020 Democrats, they didn't want children to have, you know, their bodies mutilated or be taking

01:01:23.020 irreversible hormones. And the actual concept of doing that now, people are looking and going,

01:01:28.800 whoa, we have to actually ban that. And that's, I think, one of the social issues where Chamath's

01:01:35.500 right. You need to level it up and just say, hey, this is something that should be done

01:01:39.280 personally with a family. If you have a child suffering from this and if an adult is suffering

01:01:43.340 from it, great. But we have to take this off the national stage as an important issue when we have

01:01:47.420 really important issues like, you know, Putin, Xi, AI. So many more important issues to really

01:01:56.520 bring to the table here instead of weaponizing it.

01:01:59.140 Here's another pothole issue that I think Trump, President Trump created that the left and the

01:02:05.420 mainstream media fell into. But the due process issues of a handful, one or two illegal aliens

01:02:14.280 that have been deported. And the reason I say that is Jason mentioned the Innocence Project. I actually

01:02:19.900 looked this up last week and there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases a year that the

01:02:25.840 Southern Poverty Law Center and the Innocence Project take up about due process issues of actual

01:02:31.300 American citizens. And you know how much attention that's gotten? Zero. Not one second on the national

01:02:37.660 stage. Instead, we're debating this one El Salvadorian who's already committed crimes, came as an

01:02:42.820 illegal, committed crimes as an illegal, was supposed to get sent back. And we are obsessed or we are

01:02:47.540 supposed to be obsessed about his due process rights when there are actively 600 cases at any given

01:02:53.660 time that the Innocence Project is taking up about actual Americans and their due process.

01:02:58.440 And so you wonder, why does that happen? And I think it happens because, again,

01:03:03.280 there is this innate sense that whatever people, whatever's happening in someone's life is just

01:03:08.180 not working out the way that they thought. And other people are able to, frankly, just exploit that

01:03:15.060 and channel it. The problem is they're channeling it at fringe issues. And when most people

01:03:21.120 wake up, they're like, excuse me, don't you have any common sense? Those are not the issues of all

01:03:27.280 of us. Well, honestly, there's no better example of what you're saying than what happened with BLM

01:03:33.040 and taking officer-involved shootings of unarmed Black men and elevating that to the big issue

01:03:40.380 affecting the Black community in America, as opposed to having any willingness to take an honest look at

01:03:48.160 what's happening on the South Side of Chicago. No interest whatsoever at the number of deaths

01:03:52.800 that occur there. A place I've been, a place I've interviewed moms who have lost their boys to repeat

01:03:58.560 violence and over and over. But it's all, to me, based in the left's obsession with identity.

01:04:05.000 And if it were so easy to just excise that piece of the party and have the normies in the Democrat

01:04:09.920 Party move forward, we could have a normal political contest again in the future. And this summit that

01:04:15.020 they're having today with your pal Ezra Klein, who I know Chamath had a debate with on your podcast,

01:04:20.080 he's featured. The Democrats decided to bring him. Clean up on aisle three. Clean up on aisle three.

01:04:25.220 Yes. Senate Democrats are hosting him. I'll show a soundbite of it. As their retreat special guest

01:04:31.560 to try to help them understand how to win again. Ezra Klein cannot talk identity obsession out of his

01:04:39.680 party. It is a pernicious pancreatic level for cancer that they, they can't take out and they

01:04:47.300 can't live without the liver. Go ahead, J. Cal. Well, I was just going to say, just to sort of

01:04:51.840 steal me in a little bit, Trump, I know you guys both have TDS, Trump dedication syndrome. So I'm

01:04:56.780 just going to give you the other side of it, which is you deny you have dedication system. We'll get into

01:05:01.980 it. But Trump is spectacular at triggering people and saying outlandish things like,

01:05:08.100 we're going to reopen Alcatraz and we're going to send citizens to American citizens.

01:05:12.900 Another pothole issue.

01:05:13.520 Right. But he does this to rile people up and it is divisive and it is also a mistake. And it's one

01:05:20.780 of the reasons why Americans hate each other. And we have this massive conflict in the country. We

01:05:24.700 can't focus on real issues. Trump is an equal part in this dysfunctional disaster by telling people,

01:05:31.540 we're going to send people to Seacott, like a really sadistic, terrible prison without due process.

01:05:38.320 Every human being in the United States, whether they're illegal or not, deserves some amount of

01:05:43.300 due process. And by just sending people there, if you send 200 people, you're going to make a 1% or

01:05:50.040 2% error rate. It's just going to happen. I come from a law enforcement family. I know all about this.

01:05:54.340 Mistakes happen. It would have cost Trump nothing to, instead of making these grants, you know,

01:06:00.060 feeding his base with, we're going to send people to the most sadistic, horrible prison and sending

01:06:04.000 people to stand in front of the cages where they keep people and they have no mattresses and they

01:06:08.760 get to go outside for 30 minutes a day. This is torturous conditions. Instead of doing disgusting stuff

01:06:13.140 like that, they could have just said, hey, we're going to send everybody to Gitmo for about 30 days

01:06:17.380 as a way station and make sure we get our facts correct and make sure we don't actually pick up

01:06:22.760 an American. Something tells me sending them to Gitmo would not have appeased Trump's critics.

01:06:28.480 Just the word Gitmo is a massive trigger. Well, listen, that's why I'm using it. It is a trigger,

01:06:33.420 but it is used. Gitmo is used for a way station as a, as a neutral place to send people. And that

01:06:40.020 would have actually been a little bit, you believe in no due process. You think these people should just

01:06:44.600 enter that prison covered the Supreme court and the courts for Fox during all those years where

01:06:49.320 Gitmo was front and center in the news? Let me assure you, this would not have appeased the left

01:06:53.740 in any way, shape or form. What about you, Megan? Do you think people should be picked up from the

01:06:58.440 streets and sent to Seacott? Do you think they should have due process? Yes or no? I think they

01:07:02.600 had due process. These people who are getting shoved out to Seacott have been deported already.

01:07:06.440 They've gotten their due process. You think there's a possibility we'll make a mistake?

01:07:10.520 I mean, I guess so, but I'm really more focused on the mistakes that Joe Biden made that

01:07:14.320 got Lake and Riley killed, that got Jocelyn Nungari killed. Like, that's what matters to me.

01:07:18.560 Like, I, I frankly think it's worth it. Yeah, I got it. No, I think what she's saying is

01:07:24.560 compassion is a two-way street. It applies to everybody. It applies to the victims of the

01:07:28.300 people that have been hurt. Of course. And that's why just a modicum of due process. What would the

01:07:33.000 harm be? And then what's the harm of saying, Hey, if we did make a mistake, let's take a look.

01:07:36.940 They've got a due process. Yeah. Like Abrego Garcia was deported. He had an order of removal.

01:07:41.900 The, it was just, he wasn't supposed to go to El Salvador, but the guy's totally removable.

01:07:45.720 He had two hearings. Okay. So we made a mistake.

01:07:49.140 Well, they originally said it was a mistake. The Trump administration said that. Then they

01:07:51.780 turfed that lawyer who admitted that in court and put him on ice. But listen, here's the thing.

01:07:56.620 Well, by the way, there's a report right now in the news that they allegedly shipped eight women

01:08:00.340 to Seacott and then said, Oh, you know what? That was a mistake and sent them back. So I don't think

01:08:05.680 we can take the position that the Trump administration would acknowledge.

01:08:07.700 It made nine mistakes out of 200. So that's four, 4%, 5%.

01:08:11.980 But do you have any idea what they go through? Like Jason, I just interviewed Tulsi last week.

01:08:14.960 I asked her, what do they go through? Like why should we trust the process? You tell me

01:08:18.460 it's not a Brown man. He's out of here. Um, it's and wearing a Chicago bull sweatshirt. This is what

01:08:24.780 the left would have you believe they go to the DEA. There's nobody in the country who better knows who

01:08:29.140 gang members are than the DEA that spends its days immersed in them up to the neck, trying to figure

01:08:34.040 out who's selling drugs to whom and for whom. And then they run it by the FBI, which has open

01:08:38.800 case files. If we have a 4% or 5% error rate, that's too high. You just explained the 4% error

01:08:43.680 rate. It's too high. So it's like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. See,

01:08:47.080 that's the thing, Chamath. If there are errors that they rectify, this by the way is what the Trump

01:08:51.120 administration is worried about, then it's like you have a too high error rate. But if you don't admit

01:08:56.940 that seems pretty darn high, then that's a problem too. If we could actually take this much energy and

01:09:02.900 actually focus it on US citizens and the problems of the US citizens, we would be, uh, in an incredibly

01:09:09.120 great place. The problem is we're going to wind up making mistakes with US citizens. It's bound to

01:09:13.320 happen. So I respectfully think we should just do a little bit more. If they have a 4% error rate,

01:09:18.820 we're not trying to get to 1%. I would love for you to care even one inch more about, uh, a US citizen.

01:09:25.440 Of course I do. I care about all citizens. You know, my position on human rights. I believe

01:09:29.440 in the universal declaration of human rights, whether it's, you know, the Uyghurs in China

01:09:34.560 or people being exported, everybody should have some due process and there should be compassion.

01:09:39.480 We shouldn't people put people in prisons like this. What is the name of the El Salvadoran who

01:09:45.100 we sent to El Salvador, despite the fact that he wasn't supposed to be deported there?

01:09:49.320 Oh, we don't need to get into like a quiz. If I know everybody's name, we have nine people who are

01:09:54.060 sent. I don't off the top of my head. I mean, I've read five articles about it, but I'll give

01:10:00.140 you, I'll give you a multiple choice. Is it, um, Mr. Hernandez, Mr. Fernandez, or Mr. Abrego

01:10:05.680 Garcia? I think it's the third one, but I, I, I don't remember. I've read two or three stories

01:10:10.620 on, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the third one. And what is the name of the young mother of five who

01:10:15.680 was brutally murdered by an illegal in the same state of Maryland? I, I, I don't have all these

01:10:19.880 committed to memory. I mean, I read tons of stories, Megan, this is, this is a silly argument.

01:10:26.240 No, you're trying to, I mean, no, no, no, you're trying to belittle my opinion. My opinion actually

01:10:30.940 is a valid one, Megan. I take offense to you trying to play quiz game with me. The most important thing

01:10:36.040 is human rights and human rights matters. And we should apply them equally. I just want to finish

01:10:42.260 my sentence. Abrego Garcia should apply to all humans. No, I was making a point and you took the

01:10:45.880 feel for me. I'm taking it back. Abrego Garcia is a name known by virtually every American right now.

01:10:50.720 There are polls on him. Virtually every American knows that name because it's been all over the

01:10:54.460 media. Almost nobody knows the name Rachel Morin, which is the name of the mother who had five

01:10:59.380 children who was brutally murdered by an illegal. Did Chris Van Hollen, the Senator from Maryland,

01:11:04.000 go to her family, go to her funeral, provide comfort to her mother? No, it's a no. Nobody even knew her

01:11:11.280 name until the mother was forced in front of the white house press corps by the Trump administration,

01:11:14.980 which gave her the opportunity to speak about her daughter's disgusting murder.

01:11:18.060 And she begged people to focus not on due process for these illegals, but what they're doing to us.

01:11:23.140 What's happening to young mothers like Rachel, who had no chance against this guy,

01:11:27.020 who beat her so brutally, there was an outline of blood against the wall that he raped her on.

01:11:31.940 It's just, this is the problem. It's the problem that Chamath is trying to outline for you,

01:11:36.380 that we spend all this energy on the guy having margaritas with Chris Van Hollen,

01:11:40.860 and not even one one hundredth pointing out the Americans that they've hurt, which is

01:11:45.920 an important part of the calculus. It's the reason we need to get them out. We need to get them out

01:11:51.200 fast. And people like me and maybe Chamath have almost no sympathy for their due process claims.

01:11:56.940 I would like to say something as well, which is that I think that what we have lacked

01:12:00.900 is the courage to prioritize. And there is a hierarchy of ideas that matter. And I think that

01:12:07.140 we've not been allowed to say that for a long time. But in that hierarchy, what we need to realize is

01:12:12.040 that the single most important thing that dictates the long-term security and success of the United

01:12:17.480 States is one thing, which is the technological supremacy of America. If we lose it, we lose

01:12:23.180 everything else. But if you have it, all of a sudden you're in a position to have economic supremacy

01:12:28.040 and military supremacy. If you have economic supremacy, all of a sudden you have the ability to do a lot

01:12:34.380 of things for American citizens and also for people abroad because we think it's the morally

01:12:39.220 and ethically right thing to do. But if you can't get your priorities straight and everything matters

01:12:44.480 and everything gets devolved into a two-minute soundbite and we lose the plot, we are going to

01:12:49.880 lose. And that's been difficult to say because it seems like you come off as like some callous,

01:12:55.220 unemotional person. And it's not about that. It's about having the courage to understand that

01:12:59.720 leadership takes prioritization. And what I see right now is that the things that matter are

01:13:05.760 being prioritized. I'll give you but one example. Three weeks ago, the Chinese government sent a memo

01:13:12.520 to the government of South Korea that said, these rare earths that we send you, you cannot send into

01:13:19.380 the U.S. military supply chain. If you do, there'll be consequences. Do you understand the implication of

01:13:25.480 that, how important that is? China also controls the overwhelming majority of our pharmaceutical

01:13:30.420 API inputs. China is also at the forefront of all of this AI stuff that we're talking about. China is

01:13:35.320 the only one that can make the critical technologies for batteries that we use for everything.

01:13:40.160 If we can't just understand that these things are the things that matter and underneath it's messy,

01:13:47.180 government is messy, there will be some mistakes. And as long as there's some reasonable way,

01:13:51.420 you got to get the high order bit right. The high order bit on which Trump was elected on that

01:13:56.520 specific issue is there are a lot of people that are here that should not be here. And 80 million

01:14:02.900 people said those folks should be sent back. And I think you have to honor that. And you have to have

01:14:10.500 the ability, one second, you have to have the ability then to go and honor all of these other things

01:14:15.000 that are important. And I would just wish that the media, instead of fanning the flames around one

01:14:21.120 person in CECOD or this or that, would actually narrowly allow America to understand the arc of

01:14:28.140 what really matters. I'll give you another example of what really matters. It turned out that we

01:14:33.560 borrowed $51 billion less than we thought last month. You know how consequentially important that is?

01:14:43.680 Thanks to Doge. Thanks to Doge. But except what do we see? We see Doge get vilified. We see Elon Musk

01:14:50.960 get vilified in the same breath by the same people that then all of a sudden make this one person

01:14:57.020 the center of attention. And this is where there needs to be some amount of common sense and

01:15:01.900 prioritization because these issues are hard. I get it. There'll be some mistakes that are made.

01:15:08.580 But this is where courage is defined. Have the ability to say what really matters,

01:15:13.220 create a hierarchy, focus on those things and fix those things that make the lives of most Americans

01:15:19.000 better, and then worry about the edge cases. Go ahead.

01:15:24.860 No, we all agree like the border should be secured and we shouldn't let criminals into the country and

01:15:31.540 that criminals should be dealt with. You know, my position on it is human rights matter. And maybe that

01:15:37.960 makes me old school. But I think, you know, Americans and immigrants should all be treated with the same due

01:15:44.520 process and with the same care and how. Yeah, I kind of do. Actually, I think. On deportations?

01:15:50.760 Um, I think they should have proper due process and I think people should be treated compassionately. This is a

01:15:57.120 nation that was built by immigrants. Chamath is an immigrant to this country.

01:16:01.040 Freeburg, Elon and David Sachs. All my besties are immigrants to this country. We should treat immigrants

01:16:06.460 really well and we should encourage immigration. I have nothing to complain about.

01:16:10.700 Our citizens, they're literally raping our little girls. Get out. There are immigrants. Yes, of course.

01:16:18.000 And we have a legal system for that. My point is, there is a sadistic nature to how this is being

01:16:23.280 done that I disagree with. And I believe how you treat people who have the least amount of power,

01:16:29.540 whether it's poor people or immigrants, matters. And I think we should hold ourselves to a very high

01:16:35.000 human rights standard. We wrote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote,

01:16:40.700 it. The UN approved it. Okay, but let me ask you this. We don't hit all the notes on it.

01:16:44.680 How can we possibly do that? But we should aspire to hit all the notes on it.

01:16:47.300 How can we possibly do that for 10 million illegals? How can we possibly do that?

01:16:50.780 Oh, the overwhelming number of them are incredible contributors to our society like Chamath

01:16:55.460 Palihapitiya, like David Sachs. So they don't get deported?

01:16:57.680 Even the illegal ones. Even the illegal ones. Chamath is not an illegal.

01:17:01.140 No, I'm adding. I waited in line. Even the illegal ones. I know you did. I got a legitimate

01:17:05.820 visa that I applied for. I literally said, guys, I said even illegal ones.

01:17:11.140 How do you provide your kind of due process for 10 million illegals?

01:17:15.820 You cannot. You cannot do it for 10 million. But the overwhelming number of them are working hard

01:17:21.480 in restaurants, in homes. And we should treat them compassionately.

01:17:25.020 It's not made. I realize you disagree with it. Okay, you disagree. You want them to be able to

01:17:28.900 stay. Trump's on pace to deport 2,000 people a week. They're not. He's lying.

01:17:34.660 Trump has said they're going and the American populace wants them gone. The polls show that

01:17:38.020 the majority of Americans wants all of them, not just the criminals, all of them. 56% was the last

01:17:43.200 number. So to those Americans who said, I want them gone. And I voted for the president who said,

01:17:48.100 he'll get rid of them. How would you say, okay, we got to do it because that's what people want.

01:17:52.900 But me, J. Cal, I say they have to get some measure of due process. So how are you going

01:17:57.380 to give it to 10 million people before you deport them? It's such a good question, Megan. So first

01:18:01.260 of all, illegal immigrants in this country statistically do less crime than Americans

01:18:05.340 because they're on their best behavior because they know that deportations can occur. That's fact

01:18:09.740 number one. Fact number two, Trump is deporting about 2,000 people a week, maybe 3,000. He's on pace

01:18:16.800 to deport maybe a half million people in his presidency. It was a lie. It was a political lie

01:18:22.000 that he would deport 20 million. That is a Steve Bannon lie to get elected.

01:18:27.220 This is a country built by him. No, he literally lied and did that to get votes from the base and

01:18:33.480 to get the base to come out. We all know that. You put that all on Trump? You don't think the ACLU

01:18:37.420 had a role in slowing down the numbers? Listen, the point is Trump says a lot of things and he says

01:18:43.040 bombastic, exaggerated things. Why don't you admit it? One of the things he said he would recruit the-

01:18:46.560 Hold on, let me finish. You said you wanted to let me finish. I'll give it to you.

01:18:49.280 And shut down the alien enemies. Go ahead. Sorry. Number one, he said we would end the war

01:18:54.560 in Ukraine in one day. We all know that he says stuff like that. He said he would deport 20 million

01:18:58.920 people. Stephen Miller said at the rally in Madison Square Garden, America is for Americans

01:19:03.540 and Americans only. We're deporting all 20 million. Steve Bannon said on the all-in podcast,

01:19:07.460 we are absolutely deporting all 20 million. It is not true. Trump says things that are not true to win

01:19:12.740 votes or to get attention, just like any other politician. They all do it. So the truth is he will

01:19:18.160 deport 500,000 to a million people. And if we deported all 10 or 20 million, whatever the real

01:19:23.140 number is, our economy would collapse. It would be absolute economic destruction for the country.

01:19:30.580 We are vilifying Americans. We are vilifying immigrants who are coming to America to work

01:19:36.420 hard to do the jobs Americans don't want to do at a time when we have the lowest unemployment.

01:19:41.160 Of course there is, but we have to deal with 10 million people here. And if 9.5 million of them

01:19:46.500 are great citizens who are working hard, give them a path, charge them a fine.

01:19:50.560 They're not citizens.

01:19:52.520 Give them a path.

01:19:53.400 It's so unfair that they get to jump the line in front of people who actually are going through

01:19:57.160 It is unfair. But we as Americans let them in. It is unfair, but we let them in.

01:20:01.280 We did not do anything.

01:20:01.900 And we're using them as employees that we need.

01:20:04.060 That is not true. Some of us were jumping up and down for all four years of Biden and all eight

01:20:09.120 years of Obama saying, this is deeply wrong and dangerous. We did nothing.

01:20:12.760 Republicans wanted open borders in NAFTA. They wanted Mexicans to be able to cross the border

01:20:18.480 of free.

01:20:18.720 You're not wrong. Republicans used to be on the wrong side of this.

01:20:20.040 Yes. You're not wrong.

01:20:20.560 So if we as Americans, Republicans, hold on. If Republicans and Democrats let these people

01:20:26.320 come into the country, give them a path.

01:20:27.760 The horse is dead and begging for you to stop beating it.

01:20:31.080 Okay, let's move on. Because here's, do you agree with that, Shamath, that if we actually

01:20:34.520 managed to get rid of the 10 million illegals, the economy would collapse?

01:20:38.380 Yeah, I don't think that that's a reasonable outcome. I don't think that that's economically

01:20:42.040 viable. But the reality is that there is a number of people between zero and 10 million

01:20:49.860 that may not be the best suited to be in the United States for a whole host of reasons.

01:20:58.060 I think that there was a bunch of reporting that when we think about, especially in the

01:21:03.080 last few years, a lot of these illegals weren't from Central and Southern America. In fact, they

01:21:07.740 were coming from all parts of Asia. They're coming from various countries that weren't

01:21:12.340 necessarily, you know, great fans and supporters of the United States. There's still an inherent

01:21:16.580 risk that, you know, we have like a lot of latent risk in, especially the last few years

01:21:21.400 of folks that came across the border. There needs to be a way to find that out, assess that

01:21:25.960 risk and deal with them.

01:21:27.220 I think it's naive to think that everybody's just kind of, you know, economically, productively adding

01:21:32.900 to the fabric of the United States. And I think that that creates a risk that the United States

01:21:38.120 government has the right and has been given the authority to figure out. So they should go and

01:21:44.580 figure that out. Meanwhile, let me say this one thing in support of J. Cal's argument. If Trump really

01:21:51.080 wanted these people gone, he would institute E-Verify and he would make sure that the employers

01:21:57.340 cannot pay these people because you have to do E-Verify verifies whether this person is a citizen

01:22:02.920 or not. And if the answer is no, then they don't get paid. They have to leave their job and then they

01:22:07.000 will leave the country. They will self-deport eventually because they can't get hired anywhere

01:22:11.520 except by, you know, somebody under the table. And so if Trump wanted to, that's a, that's a remedy

01:22:16.800 that's been pushed on him by large factions of today's Republican party. And he never speaks of

01:22:22.240 it. He clearly doesn't want to do it. And I'm sure it's because he doesn't want to piss off the

01:22:26.640 business community. And in particular, a lot of those Republicans who used to be very pro open

01:22:31.120 borders, Jason's not wrong about that either. Yeah, look, I think, I think what's fair is we have to

01:22:37.340 acknowledge we got to stick the landing here. We're in a very delicate situation. We're in the middle of

01:22:41.120 a tariff war. We're trying to figure out how to navigate this very complex geopolitical situation with

01:22:46.300 China. I think that we have to make sure that 98% of our energy is going into that and the

01:22:52.180 cascading set of issues that come from that. Because if we don't get that right, nothing else

01:22:56.880 will matter that much. And so I think it's important. This is why you're in favor of the

01:23:00.980 tariffs, by the way. Is this why you like the tariffs? I'm a huge supporter of these tariffs for

01:23:06.780 one very specific reason, Megan. We completely ignored what we learned in COVID. What we should have

01:23:14.680 taken away from COVID beyond the fact that we created the virus. The second thing we should

01:23:19.660 have taken away is we are in an incredibly fragile position where we cannot take care of our own

01:23:25.680 citizens if we need to. It's the most advanced country in the world that had the absolute worst

01:23:30.440 death rates in the world. We mandated school closures. We mandated masks. We mandated vaccines.

01:23:37.000 We probably made our citizenry sicker than they would have been otherwise. All for what? It's not clear.

01:23:42.580 And so taking a step back, what we should have done is started a holistic process to say,

01:23:48.360 if this or any other thing happens in the future, can we take care of our own people?

01:23:53.740 And the answer today is no. And I think what tariffs have done, at least for me, is laid bare

01:24:00.480 that we have had our eyes closed for 25 years. And if we don't wake up to the issue that we cannot

01:24:07.640 take care of ourselves, we are creating enormous compounding risk for U.S. society.

01:24:13.700 Yeah. And the thing about these mass deportations, I think just to wrap it up there, Megan,

01:24:17.920 it's super important, is it would cause a recession. It would cause 4% GDP contraction.

01:24:23.420 And that's really what it comes down to. And the areas where we do have illegal immigrants working,

01:24:30.640 construction, agriculture, and hospitality, these are critical industries for our country.

01:24:37.480 Trump has used tons of illegal immigrants. It's all been documented in the early part of his career.

01:24:42.700 Republicans have been in favor of this. All I'm saying is, and I think we're actually in sync,

01:24:48.300 and this is one of the problems with America today, media today, which we are both part of,

01:24:52.600 we're all part of it, is trying to find common ground. So instead of trying to stick me that,

01:24:56.780 or me trying to stick you, let's find the common ground here. Common ground,

01:24:59.540 we want the border closed. We want an early process. Common ground, we want all of the

01:25:03.480 illegals that are committing crimes out of the country. On the margins, we might disagree about

01:25:08.280 the level of due process. Okay, fine. We can debate it, and we can find a compromise there.

01:25:13.780 We also need to have this economy have a soft landing. And what Trump's doing with tariffs,

01:25:20.160 a little too volatile for my taste, we'll get into it, and this deportation concept,

01:25:24.700 the reason he's not doing the deportation is he knows it won him votes, but he knows it will crash

01:25:30.100 the economy. Therefore, he's not doing it. So we can actually, Megan, agree that we don't want to

01:25:34.580 deport 10 million. Trump doesn't want to, and you actually don't want to deport all 10 million.

01:25:38.720 I actually, I don't, I disagree with you guys. It'll crash the economy.

01:25:41.000 I don't agree with you. I don't agree.

01:25:42.700 You want to crash the economy?

01:25:43.760 I asked, I don't agree it would happen. I asked you your opinion. I asked Chamath his opinion.

01:25:48.120 I did not yet give my opinion, but I will now. I don't think it would crash the economy. I really

01:25:53.260 don't. I think that if you pay Americans a living wage, these companies in Silicon Valley,

01:25:58.700 these agricultural companies are going to have to increase the paycheck, and then they will get

01:26:02.520 Americans who want to do these jobs. And that's not too bad. That's not a bad consequence to me.

01:26:06.860 I actually think that's a doable thing and that it will improve the landscape of America significantly.

01:26:11.720 And I'm sorry that those people are here and tried to obey our laws once they broke them to get in.

01:26:15.400 And it's really shouldn't be my problem. The, the, the composure of the company has

01:26:20.060 fundamentally changed as a result of these open borders. And it's not just on the face of crime.

01:26:24.520 It needs to change back. A lot of these people have no desire to assimilate.

01:26:27.920 And that's how we got into this mess. And the Democrats do have a master plan to get these

01:26:31.820 people to start voting in elections, which is basically almost as bad as making Canada our 51st

01:26:36.400 state and letting all of them vote in our elections. It's just a mass of future Democrats that we don't

01:26:41.040 want or need. So that's my position. Let me take a quick break and come back with a

01:26:45.200 fun clip. And then we'll find out how things went South between Chamath and Ezra Klein.

01:26:50.680 All right, stand by these days. Personal safety is not something that can be left to chance,

01:26:54.600 whether at home on the road or just living everyday life, having a reliable way to protect yourself

01:26:59.820 and your family is crucial. That's why Berna is the choice for many. Berna is a game-changing,

01:27:05.780 less lethal self-defense tool, compact, powerful, and easy to use. It provides the confidence to act in

01:27:12.240 any situation. Berna uses non-lethal rounds, tear gas, pepper, and kinetic projectiles to

01:27:18.820 effectively stop a threat from a safe distance. And the best part? Berna can be shipped directly to

01:27:24.240 your door and it's legal in all 50 states. Berna is proudly American with products hand-assembled in

01:27:30.380 Fort Wayne, Indiana. Sometimes a firearm is not the right option and Berna provides a powerful

01:27:35.860 alternative. Protect what matters most with Berna. Visit Berna.com. That's B-Y-R-N-A.com slash Megan.

01:27:42.880 And that'll get you a 10% discount and learn why thousands of people and law enforcement agencies

01:27:48.440 are adding Berna's less lethal protection. Berna, non-lethal self-defense, always ready.

01:27:56.380 Tax day may have passed, but for millions of Americans, the real trouble is just beginning.

01:28:00.920 If you missed the April 15th deadline or still owe back taxes, the IRS is ramping up enforcement,

01:28:07.880 you should know. Every day you wait might make things worse. With over 5,000 new tax liens filed

01:28:14.240 daily and tools like property seizures, bank levies, and wage garnishments, the IRS is applying

01:28:19.720 pressure at levels we haven't seen in years. The good news? There is still time for Tax Network USA

01:28:25.080 to help. Self-employed or a business owner, even if your books are a mess, they've got it covered.

01:28:31.180 Tax Network USA specializes in cleaning up financial chaos and getting you back on track

01:28:35.980 fast. Even after the deadline, it's not too late to regain control. Your consultation is completely

01:28:42.840 free and acting now could stop penalties, threatening letters, and surprise levies before they escalate.

01:28:48.900 Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash Megan. You may have missed April 15th,

01:28:56.340 but you haven't run out of options. Let Tax Network USA help before the IRS makes the next move.

01:29:03.800 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest,

01:29:10.040 and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal,

01:29:13.840 and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph,

01:29:17.820 a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like

01:29:24.100 Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream The

01:29:31.040 Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love

01:29:38.160 the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more.

01:29:45.240 Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

01:29:48.520 Go to SiriusXM.com slash MK show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com

01:29:56.700 slash MK show and get three months free. Offer details apply.

01:30:01.740 So, Chamath, I mentioned Ezra Klein. He's the darling of the left. He's got a New York Times

01:30:11.220 podcast. And as the Senate Democrats meet today to figure out what the hell happened this past year

01:30:16.600 to them and what's going to happen on a go-forward basis, they brought him in as like their keynote

01:30:21.620 savior guy who's going to show them the way forward. He and his data guru, who he interviewed not long ago

01:30:28.180 about, you know, the numbers and how they're showing massive gaps with young men in particular

01:30:33.420 and young people, uh, flocking to the Republican party. So you guys recently had Ezra Klein on the

01:30:39.860 all in podcast and he came for you after you had told a story on all in about how accessible Trump

01:30:48.260 is and how, if you need to talk to anybody in the administration, you pick up a phone and call them

01:30:53.720 and they'll pick up and actually speak to you. By the way, my experience as well. Well, he didn't

01:30:58.580 much like that. And here's how that went. This world in which we are doing the deal-making by

01:31:05.340 individual relationships, by who can get their calls answered, not by rules that feel clear and

01:31:10.640 stable. Ezra, that's how the Biden administration works. No, Ezra, you're trying to make it sound like

01:31:17.340 corruption. The Trump administration, what I have seen as a businessman, is willing to hear the

01:31:23.140 conditions on the ground. As a businessman, when I was building, Ezra, just to be clear,

01:31:28.240 critical rare earth supplies for America under the Biden administration, battery can materials

01:31:33.900 to compete with China under the Biden administration, AI chips to be the best inference solution under the

01:31:40.240 Biden administration. I couldn't get a call back. That's just the facts. But he prefers the old

01:31:47.580 regime, Chamath, because I guess it was less susceptible to the kind of corruption you were clearly

01:31:52.840 calling to talk about. You know, I think that there's a vein of Democrats that love this sort

01:31:59.760 of like insider clubby approach of like Hollywood movie stars plus athletes plus the Oval. And,

01:32:09.000 you know, in that clip as well, like, you know, he was talking about like George Clooney and I and

01:32:13.980 there's nothing I don't have anything against George Clooney. But my comment is more what you know,

01:32:18.420 what does George Clooney know about business about anything? I don't particularly care what he thinks

01:32:22.760 about business. Nor journalism for that matter. Just like you shouldn't care about, you know,

01:32:27.720 what I think about acting or directing. We all have our zones of excellence. And the point that I was

01:32:33.040 trying to make that I think really perturbed him is that, you know, Elon, myself, a whole bunch of

01:32:38.980 others that had been investing money, yes, but more important than money, all of our time, all of our

01:32:44.660 social capital, all of our reputation to help the United States. It went into a black hole under Biden.

01:32:51.900 They just despised the idea that we were doing things. And it made no sense because we were so

01:32:57.480 pro-America and Pax America. President Trump, on the other side, he's not always going to agree with you.

01:33:03.800 But what I find is that team wants to know what are the actual details and they'll decide what

01:33:09.920 they're going to decide. And I think that that's way better. Like, you know, when you're investing

01:33:13.380 in a company, do you want a CEO that wants to know what's actually going on or that is cloistered where

01:33:19.420 there's four or five gatekeepers who then tell him their version of the truth? That I think is really

01:33:25.780 dangerous. And I don't see that here. I did see that with Biden. And that's why I got frustrated

01:33:31.060 with Ezra because I think what he was basically saying is, you know, Trump is acting quite

01:33:35.800 democratically and speaking to everybody. I liked it better when I had the inside track and there

01:33:40.340 was a, you know, in-club and a not-in-club and I was in the in-club. And I think that Democrats have

01:33:46.340 a tendency to do that. Now, again, they do that because that play has worked in the past. Bring

01:33:52.280 around the Hollywood star, bring around the athletes, and all of a sudden there's this patina and

01:33:56.600 everybody thinks it's amazing and cool and I can dance and I can sing and I can play an instrument

01:34:01.340 and all this stuff looks cool. But under the surface, it's brittle and vacuous. Whereas here,

01:34:07.280 what I can tell you under Trump is the people that work for him are smart as hell. They'll argue with

01:34:12.380 you. They'll debate issues with you. They'll ask you for what's going on. They'll talk to people that

01:34:17.120 are on the exact opposite end of what they believe. That is what you want because that healthy dialogue

01:34:23.140 and debate. That's where you get to answers. And the reason why that's important, back to where I

01:34:27.240 started, is we're at a critical point in American history. We have to have the courage to prioritize

01:34:32.440 and you have to get the big decisions right. And I think that he is trending, the Trump administration

01:34:38.860 is trending, to get these big decisions right. And part of it is because they're willing to talk to

01:34:44.680 everybody. And I think that if you look back, that's what you will give credit for as what drove the

01:34:51.600 success, is because you knew the actual contours. He will. You know, Jason, after Bill Maher went for

01:34:57.560 his visit to the White House, one of the things he said was, we sat down, he asked me what I thought

01:35:01.320 about Iran. He's like, what should I do about Iran? And, you know, Bill Maher's like, I don't know.

01:35:06.780 But that is, Trump will do that. And you may know, you may have an opinion, you may have no opinion.

01:35:12.080 But I think this is one of his strengths, that he will ask anybody, he'll hear anybody out.

01:35:16.720 Yeah, you know, I am shocked, Megan, absolutely shocked that money buys access or celebrity buys

01:35:24.580 access. I never thought this would be the case with politicians. I thought they were so pure.

01:35:28.620 You know, the appearance of impropriety with this administration is high, admittedly. But that

01:35:34.640 doesn't mean it's causation. XRP, you know, they had a big SEC suit. They donated millions to Trump.

01:35:42.120 The suit went away. Jeff Yoss donated tens of millions. And the TikTok ban got extended twice

01:35:49.200 now. Apple showed up, they donated and Apple got carved out. Well, yes, I was about to bring that

01:35:56.900 up. And Apple came and carved. So we're going to have to parse each of these. You know, Eric Trump's

01:36:01.740 done a bunch of stuff with the Trump coin. The SEC did a carve out for meme coins. So the appearance

01:36:07.120 of impropriety isn't impropriety. But I do understand with both sides how they feel like

01:36:11.920 people are buying access and getting results. That's the nature of the political speech.

01:36:15.800 You're not going to make me bring up the Hunter Biden laptop.

01:36:18.400 Absolutely. Hunter Biden getting paid millions of dollars to be on a board of a company that

01:36:22.680 doesn't exist in the real world. Nobody gets paid millions of dollars. Even if you're on the

01:36:26.040 board of Apple, I think you probably get like 250K. And that might be the highest paid board in the

01:36:30.980 world. Like it just doesn't exist. So grift exists. Crime exists. Paying for access exists.

01:36:37.280 And that's the American system. If we want to change this, we should not let Nancy Pelosi

01:36:41.600 trade stocks. We should get rid of super PACs. There should be a cap put on that. I believe

01:36:46.620 that's wrongly, even though many of my friends are donating tens of millions of dollars.

01:36:51.500 I think he said no. Yeah, I know. I kind of feel like we should maybe readdress that and look at

01:36:56.460 maybe giving each of the last three candidates a certain amount of money to spend and make it a

01:37:00.980 little bit more fair. But I'm a bit of an idealist, as you know. Well, you can change the rules for

01:37:04.560 elections. The Congress does have that power, but they can't. Yeah. And you know, this is this is

01:37:08.940 part of the democratic process. And it does look at times. I understand the criticism that Trump

01:37:14.220 looks coin operated at times. But I think we'll have to look at each of these individual cases.

01:37:18.700 And if you put the totality of together, as Chamath's pointing out, I do have a lot of my

01:37:23.000 lifelong friends who are working with Trump. Many of them are Democrats, by the way, for Trump to win

01:37:27.560 the second election. He surrounded himself with Democrats like Chamath, Joe Rogan, Elon Musk.

01:37:33.680 Tulsi. Tulsi, Besant. I mean, a gay Democrat. I mean, go right down the line.

01:37:38.720 Harry Lepin, lifelong Bobby Kennedy, the ultimate Democrat. So I think you can give two pieces of

01:37:45.420 really great credit. One, Democrats got Trump back in the White House. Number two, Democrats are

01:37:50.940 incredibly smart and effective business leaders who are now working with him. And number three,

01:37:54.500 Trump is smart enough to know that he should flip all these Democrats and get them working in the

01:37:59.340 White House. And he is good at building bridges and making people feel incredibly special when

01:38:04.420 he talks to them and giving them 100 percent of his attention. I give I give him I give him a lot

01:38:08.040 of credit for those things. And you know what? I can see. That's why my position on Trump changed

01:38:11.980 slightly, which is he surrounded himself with lifelong Democrats who are highly effective. And so my

01:38:19.640 friend Mark Pincus as well. It's just a long line of Democrats who got him in office this time.

01:38:23.200 Yeah. He's not ideological. No, you're not wrong. He had a broad coalition of Republicans and Dems,

01:38:28.860 both in terms of his cabinet and in terms of the voting populace.

01:38:32.800 Megan, my earpiece went out. Did you say you said something? I'm not wrong.

01:38:37.840 Why? I said my earpiece went out. Did you say that?

01:38:40.260 This is why this kind of behavior is why they don't invite you to all the all in events.

01:38:44.580 Oh, come on. I saw this clip. Steve Krakauer pulled this. This wasn't an MK find. This is a

01:38:50.440 Steve Krakauer find where it turns out the besties are leaving J-Cal out of their events. Let's watch.

01:38:56.220 That's a hard question. A new private club in D.C. that Don Jr. is doing and Saks is a member,

01:39:02.820 Tremont's a member. And I just checked my Gmail. I checked all three of my Gmail accounts,

01:39:06.840 everything. No invite. You must have gotten lost again.

01:39:10.120 If you want to be a member, obviously there are dues and a membership fee. And I just didn't want

01:39:16.380 to waste your time with an offer. Well, I just popped into reminisce about this trip that

01:39:22.960 Chamath and Freeburg just did. Yeah. Trip of a lifetime. Trip of a lifetime.

01:39:26.460 We had all the besties at the White House. It was really incredible.

01:39:28.920 It's interesting. I checked my spam filters and my in-right got stuck in the spam filter.

01:39:34.520 I had Ski Week this week, so I wouldn't have been able to make it anyway. I see that you guys are all

01:39:38.980 going to be in the next Jeopardy in the second round. My invite to Jeopardy somehow got lost.

01:39:43.020 That was kind of a bummer. We have a good time. The Jeopardy thing's not real. That's Photoshop.

01:39:50.220 Chamath, what's happening? Why isn't J-Cal getting all the invites?

01:39:53.760 You know what's funny? He is the most charming person, Jason is, of the bunch. And he is incredibly

01:39:59.500 funny. And the thing with, like, the whole Trump thing is hilarious because I will facilitate,

01:40:04.860 David and I will facilitate a meeting of the minds. And I guarantee you that Trump will have J-Cal

01:40:10.320 eating out of the palm of his hand. They are so similar in some ways. They're meant to be besties,

01:40:16.720 those two. Yeah. He doesn't mind. I am scared to meet Trump because I do think we might wind up

01:40:21.400 becoming besties. I think it's very likely. I think it's very likely. Probably true.

01:40:26.900 Well, in the meantime, the besties may be excluding you, J-Cal, but you're welcome here

01:40:30.400 anytime. It's a pleasure to have you and you as well, Chamath. What happened to our discussion of

01:40:35.500 side pube versus side boob or the meth gala? You have the last five seconds if you'd like to say

01:40:41.600 something about it. Go. No, Chamath, I don't know if- I know you know about side boob, but you know

01:40:46.300 about side pube. I don't want to know about that, but I saw Megan just go totally off on the meth gala

01:40:50.400 yesterday. My favorite Megan. Fantastic. Catty Megan, when she goes after other people's looks,

01:40:55.220 that's my favorite Megan. I like legal Megan. Please take that off the screen. And I like

01:41:00.040 meth gala Megan. When she takes apart the meth gala. I got to go. I'm cutting you off.

01:41:07.260 You're such an esteem. Megan. You're such an esteem. See you soon, guys.

01:41:14.800 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:41:25.220 You're such an esteem.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 07, 2025

Trump's Accessibility, Portnoy's Battle, and Dangers of AI Robots, with Chamath Palihapitiya and Jason Calacanis of All-In ｜ Ep. 1067

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript