The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump's Action-Packed Day One, and Ridiculous Media Spin on Elon ＂Salute,＂ with Charles C.W. Cooke and Rich Lowry

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00:00:31.200 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.780 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show

00:00:45.960 and the first full day of President Trump's second term.

00:00:49.380 Do you feel relieved?

00:00:50.540 I feel euphoric and also just like crazed.

00:00:54.200 My brain, I feel like somebody put my head like in some sort of a blender.

00:00:59.160 Like, I want to tell you that we had a wonderful trip.

00:01:04.300 Like, actually seeing Trump, you know, take the oath of office.

00:01:08.060 I mean, I actually didn't witness it in person.

00:01:09.940 I mean, via, you know, television like you guys.

00:01:12.400 But being there for it, being at the rally, all this stuff was euphoric.

00:01:16.680 I mean, it was just the dawn of a new day and you could feel it in every way, shape and form.

00:01:21.340 But the logistics around the inauguration festivities around D.C. were just extremely challenging.

00:01:31.440 And it was the talk of the town because you'd show up at any event and they had this place locked down totally understandably.

00:01:37.020 My God, how many assassination attempts do you need to have on a president before they start to lock down cities?

00:01:42.440 But it was so challenging to get from A to B, whether it was, you know, the arena where, you know, I was speaking for Trump.

00:01:52.800 So you'd think, you know, it'd be a little easier to get in.

00:01:55.500 But at turn after turn after turn, you had Secret Service at every block and then the next block and the next block.

00:02:01.440 And then you just try to get through and try to get through and try to get through.

00:02:03.300 And civilians, you know, people who are not speaking, times that by 100.

00:02:07.980 And then at the balls, you know, you'd go, but you couldn't get anywhere near the actual ball unless you happened to be at the right hotel and got on the right shuttle bus and then whatever.

00:02:18.000 If you were somebody like me or most people, you had to walk maybe four or five, six long blocks in.

00:02:24.700 And I mean, it was like just over zero with biting windchill.

00:02:28.820 And the ladies are in ball gowns, yours truly included.

00:02:33.120 So we're freezing, right?

00:02:36.120 So, of course, I did have my new fur coat.

00:02:39.480 By the way, I was right.

00:02:40.940 PETA did send me an email about it.

00:02:43.540 And I'm going to tell you something.

00:02:45.140 I kind of love PETA.

00:02:47.240 I am somebody who eats animals and wears animal products.

00:02:52.200 But I have a soft spot in my heart for these guys because they've been trying to convert me for many, many years.

00:02:57.480 And they do it really nicely.

00:02:59.440 Like, they're not jerks about it.

00:03:02.440 Anyway, I'll tell you about that.

00:03:03.780 But I did wear my fur.

00:03:05.300 And I have to tell you, it made a big difference.

00:03:07.600 It really did keep me warm, at least on the areas that it was covering.

00:03:11.380 But that doesn't include, you know, the bottom of your legs and your hands and your face and your head and so on.

00:03:17.320 And I was with my family, too.

00:03:18.740 So we were all so cold and everybody was so cold.

00:03:22.200 So then you get to the eventual destination.

00:03:24.900 And, you know, you go to an inaugural ball.

00:03:26.420 There are thousands of people there, you guys.

00:03:28.300 Thousands.

00:03:28.800 The one we went to was in Union Station.

00:03:31.220 And we're like, how are they going to have a coat check for thousands of people?

00:03:36.160 Well, that was a good question because it was full.

00:03:40.340 But, you know, shortly after they got started.

00:03:41.980 So then everybody's in there wearing their coats over their ball gowns.

00:03:46.560 And there's tuxedos in it.

00:03:48.040 That's slightly awkward, too.

00:03:49.820 So then we just wound up dumping our coats in a big pile.

00:03:52.600 And I was thinking, well, that seems irresponsible with my new fur,

00:03:56.480 which Maureen Callahan told me to say was vintage and passed down from my mom.

00:04:01.120 Anyway, we did it because I didn't want to carry it around.

00:04:05.000 Nobody stole it, but it just.

00:04:06.440 OK, that's enough complaining.

00:04:08.120 I needed to get it off my chest.

00:04:10.180 We flew back early this morning.

00:04:11.880 I'm not going to lie.

00:04:12.740 My daughter, Yardley, got very bad motion sickness.

00:04:15.180 So there was vomit in my morning today.

00:04:17.820 Then my son got a bloody nose in the car on the way, like the altitude and the extreme cold.

00:04:23.500 Um, then Sarah, my hairstylist, who's also a friend and amazing, had a mishap with the

00:04:30.520 airplane tray table, which hit her in the head as she was dealing with a migraine.

00:04:33.940 So it's been that kind of a morning.

00:04:35.620 I literally just got into my place at 1130 and smacked on some makeup.

00:04:41.540 I still thankfully have my overnight hair from yesterday evening.

00:04:45.300 So pulled it together.

00:04:47.100 One final thing.

00:04:48.440 The highlight of the trip for me was all of you.

00:04:52.440 I met so many MK show viewers and listeners and what a joy, what a true joy.

00:05:00.120 You know, I have this image in my head of like who watches the show, who listens to the show.

00:05:04.260 And I picture very savvy, smart, street smart, book smart, both people listening to the show.

00:05:10.620 And in my mind, I've got to tell you, you're all very attractive.

00:05:13.660 And I think I'm right.

00:05:15.340 Everybody I met who listens to the show or watches the show, every single person was beautiful.

00:05:20.300 I'm like, this is wonderful.

00:05:21.560 I appreciate the fact that such lovely people in every sense of the word are tuning in.

00:05:28.320 And I feel like we all did this together.

00:05:32.120 So notwithstanding the logistical challenges of DC in trying to protect the president and the

00:05:38.060 cabinet and the Supreme court on a weekend such as this, I had a wonderful time because of all

00:05:44.040 of you and all of you are the reason president Trump was sworn in as 47 on Monday.

00:05:49.700 So thank you.

00:05:51.420 Okay.

00:05:51.960 So we were busy.

00:05:53.700 And as much as we started to complain about fatigue, we would just think about Donald Trump

00:05:58.800 and we would stop.

00:06:00.380 I don't, how does he do it?

00:06:04.100 How does he do it?

00:06:05.560 We were talking like, I, I'm 25 years younger than Trump.

00:06:08.920 Sarah, my hairstylist who I mentioned, she's 34.

00:06:13.580 We were exhausted.

00:06:15.500 Abigail Finan.

00:06:16.280 We weren't sure.

00:06:16.980 We talked this morning, whether she's 37 or 38.

00:06:19.620 What did we settle on abs?

00:06:21.540 We think she's 38.

00:06:22.620 Um, he, he, he energizes us under the table and not the bullshit kind of statement like that.

00:06:31.180 Like they say about Joe Biden for real.

00:06:33.840 I mean, he actually does.

00:06:35.260 The man is tireless.

00:06:37.600 How does a 78 year old keep up the schedule he kept up yesterday?

00:06:41.060 He, he's a true extrovert.

00:06:43.580 He is energized by socialization, by attention, by interacting with other people.

00:06:50.800 And maybe it's just that like at heart, I'm more of an introvert.

00:06:53.720 So I find it more exhausting, but he, I'm in awe of how he handles this demanding schedule.

00:07:01.260 He's cut to be president.

00:07:03.000 He's cut out of the perfect cloth for the job.

00:07:05.580 Um, so he yesterday got right to work as he said he would.

00:07:08.800 We talked about this in the show a bit yesterday.

00:07:10.300 He signed dozens of executive orders throughout the day.

00:07:13.480 He started at that little desk at the Capitol one arena and he kept it going late into the

00:07:19.320 evening, uh, sitting in the oval office, like taking questions.

00:07:23.860 Like you were just over for tea.

00:07:25.360 You know, he's just like, yeah, fire him at me.

00:07:27.260 The part we'll get to it, but Peter Doocy firing questions to him about whether Joe Biden

00:07:32.620 left him, you know, the note that they all leave one another, the presidents and in the

00:07:36.640 resolute desk.

00:07:37.620 It's so classic Trump it's casual.

00:07:39.800 It's off the cuff.

00:07:42.140 Yeah, sure.

00:07:42.660 I'll tell you all the presidential secrets.

00:07:44.500 Sure.

00:07:44.580 But he typical Trump, he knew exactly where to draw the line.

00:07:48.720 He actually didn't divulge all the secrets, but he had some fun with it.

00:07:53.500 It's just, you can tell there's a new energy in town.

00:07:56.160 You can tell things are changing immediately and there'll be controversies and already there

00:08:01.200 are.

00:08:01.420 And I don't care.

00:08:02.260 I've got to tell you, I don't care.

00:08:03.440 I'm still, I'm still busy being euphoric over the fact that he's in there, that he's

00:08:07.980 going to close the border and that he knows the difference between a man and a woman.

00:08:11.460 Um, we did find out more details on that beautiful executive order on women yesterday.

00:08:20.860 I'm going to say on, on biological sex, because, you know, you've heard us talk about this,

00:08:25.860 but gender is not a thing.

00:08:26.820 Gender is made up.

00:08:27.800 Biological sex is real.

00:08:28.960 And that's really what this order says.

00:08:30.760 We, I didn't know who drafted it because I got to read the whole thing today.

00:08:34.940 It's perfection.

00:08:36.380 Okay.

00:08:36.680 You know, we talk about this issue on the show a lot.

00:08:38.480 It's perfection in my wildest dreams.

00:08:41.600 I couldn't have drafted something this beautiful on this issue.

00:08:44.900 And it turns out, and I tweeted out this morning who wrote this.

00:08:47.700 And it turns out it was may mailman of the independent women's forum.

00:08:51.720 Who's been on this show.

00:08:52.880 She came on after title nine on that barn burner of a show that we dropped that we had

00:08:57.280 very fierce women who've been standing up for women's rights.

00:08:59.960 And she was one of them.

00:09:02.300 This is a no bullshit attorney who works for IWF, who she's at the top of it.

00:09:07.520 And she wrote this thing along with beautiful editing.

00:09:11.440 I'm told by Stephen Miller, member white supremacist, Stephen Miller, who's been responsible for a

00:09:17.200 lot of the Southern border policies under Trump one.

00:09:20.000 And now under Trump two, that guy is a genius.

00:09:24.600 He's a genius.

00:09:25.620 He's I saw him on a Sunday.

00:09:26.960 He spoke before me at that Trump rally and he does not get enough credit for being, as

00:09:32.480 I called him publicly, sort of the magic behind the man.

00:09:35.600 There's Trump who's got ideas and goals and he's got, you know, the resolution to do something.

00:09:41.560 But then he needs policy guys to actually write it up and enact it.

00:09:45.480 That's Stephen Miller, among other very talented people.

00:09:48.900 So tip of the hat to May, to Stephen and anybody else who worked on that thing of beauty.

00:09:55.660 OK, today, Trump is attending a national prayer service.

00:09:58.920 That's before he meets with Republican congressional leaders and makes a major announcement about

00:10:03.100 infrastructure at 4 p.m.

00:10:05.360 Eastern from the White House.

00:10:06.340 That's interesting.

00:10:07.040 I don't think we were expecting a big infrastructure announcement.

00:10:10.300 So what's he going to say?

00:10:11.180 Can't wait to find out.

00:10:12.540 So much to get to.

00:10:13.660 We were brilliant on our own show.

00:10:15.480 If I do say so myself, it wasn't me.

00:10:17.580 It was my booker and my executive producer and my producers.

00:10:20.240 But we booked an N.R. day for today, the first full day of the Trump term, which is

00:10:25.240 ideal because you need super smart people who are politically savvy and no bullshit.

00:10:30.260 And that is why we have on Charles C.W.

00:10:32.500 Cook, senior editor at The National Review and host of the Charles C.W.

00:10:36.500 Cook podcast and Rich Lowry, editor in chief of N.R.

00:10:40.160 You can find all their work ad free with an N.R.

00:10:43.620 Plus membership.

00:10:45.940 Increased tariffs on our trade partners, tax cuts and regulation changes.

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00:11:54.740 Charlie and Rich, welcome back.

00:11:56.800 Wait, and I just want to say one more thing.

00:11:58.060 Okay, now truly is the time to get an NR Plus membership, but here's why.

00:12:02.840 Because in the dawn, in the era of Trump, there's nonsense everywhere in all publications.

00:12:08.620 You know, the Trump derangement syndrome's real.

00:12:11.600 The left is already going nuts.

00:12:13.720 Elon Musk is a Nazi.

00:12:15.100 That's their latest narrative.

00:12:16.120 And you can't trust them.

00:12:18.420 You know that.

00:12:19.660 Now, NR has its differences with Trump and has not been shy about them, including you

00:12:25.000 two guys.

00:12:25.920 But they're actual Republicans.

00:12:28.560 They're actual conservatives.

00:12:29.680 And they probably love 90% of the Trump agenda.

00:12:33.580 So you will find truly fair coverage at National Review.

00:12:39.080 You may occasionally, if you're a diehard Trumper, be ticked off that somebody says something

00:12:43.740 not that great about Trump.

00:12:44.700 You can handle it.

00:12:45.480 You're grownups.

00:12:46.140 We're not the left.

00:12:47.020 We don't cry in our soup over those things.

00:12:48.720 But you'll get actual coverage of real facts.

00:12:51.400 They don't deviate from facts just because they may have a beef occasionally with Trump,

00:12:55.880 which is not a constant thing with these guys.

00:12:57.700 So anyway, that's from the heart.

00:12:59.580 I'm not just saying it because you guys are here.

00:13:01.240 I've said it many times.

00:13:02.900 Welcome to the show, you guys.

00:13:04.920 Thanks, Megan.

00:13:05.560 By the way, you're recounting of what it was like last night in Washington is why I got jaded

00:13:09.820 about inaugurals a long time ago.

00:13:11.900 Too cold, too crowded, too inconvenient.

00:13:15.160 And the coat checks are always a nightmare, always been a nightmare for decades.

00:13:20.640 If Trump's really going to be effective in Washington, he'll fix the coat check situation

00:13:25.980 at inaugural balls.

00:13:27.280 But I think that's even beyond his powers, Megan.

00:13:29.760 The whole system needs to be redone.

00:13:31.820 I know it's pursuant to the Constitution.

00:13:33.540 We have to do this thing on January 20th.

00:13:35.480 June 20th would be so much more pleasant.

00:13:37.140 May in D.C. is absolutely gorgeous.

00:13:40.820 I mean, we wouldn't have wanted Joe Biden to stick around an extra few months so that

00:13:44.220 there's that problem.

00:13:45.340 It doesn't solve anything by moving it to November, you know, the 6th or whatever, the

00:13:49.740 day after the election, because it's still going to be cold then.

00:13:52.040 But January 20th in D.C. is not great.

00:13:55.840 And I don't know what the solution is other than finding some arena that holds a couple

00:14:00.580 at 500,000 people where we can all join together.

00:14:04.260 Charles, what did you make of the past three days?

00:14:09.520 Well, a lot happened in the past three days.

00:14:12.620 Right.

00:14:13.080 We had Joe Biden's absolutely bizarre exit from the presidency, not just the pardons yesterday,

00:14:22.560 but his declaration of a 28th Amendment that doesn't exist and his refusal to enforce

00:14:28.320 the tick tock bill he signed.

00:14:30.160 Then we had a whirlwind inauguration day with a whole bunch of executive orders, most of

00:14:36.400 them good, most of them welcome, a couple of which I think are illegal.

00:14:41.460 And then Trump's own pardons last night of pretty much everyone involved with January

00:14:46.840 6th.

00:14:47.260 So it really is a time for news.

00:14:50.980 I did notice certain journalists complaining that there was too much news for them to cover.

00:14:55.480 But of course, it must be quite the transition from them.

00:14:58.080 They took four years off.

00:14:59.920 And now those are the same people who probably associate with the progressive staffers on Capitol

00:15:05.580 Hill who wrote that letter demanding a 32 hour work week.

00:15:09.880 And, you know, 40 hours was just too much for them.

00:15:12.360 And even they got shamed so much, even by fellow Democrats, that they had to withdraw their stupid

00:15:16.580 letter.

00:15:18.100 Yeah, I mean, that was just preposterous.

00:15:19.660 So it's a very weird side trend in our politics at that moment, which is progressives trying

00:15:24.060 to unionize everything as if they're coal miners, people who work in congressional offices

00:15:28.600 or newspapers talking about the travails of their day.

00:15:33.640 They need a 32 hour week.

00:15:34.960 But anyway, so an enormous amount happened.

00:15:38.080 And it was odd because at one level, there was a massive amount of change yesterday.

00:15:43.540 You saw the shifts in policy, legitimate shifts in policy of areas that have been delegated to

00:15:50.320 the president by Congress on sex, as in sex versus gender, as you say, on energy, on foreign

00:16:00.960 policy, on immigration.

00:16:04.420 But then there was some continuity.

00:16:06.240 Both Trump and Biden refused to enforce the TikTok bill.

00:16:10.740 And both Trump and Biden issued some questionable pardons.

00:16:13.900 And both Trump and Biden tried to change the Constitution by fiat.

00:16:17.560 So it was a mixture of continuity in government and change.

00:16:24.320 It's so funny that neither one of those was like a huge headline.

00:16:29.000 You know, like the media totally ignored this brand new amendment, the constitutional amendment

00:16:34.660 that Biden just declared by tweet.

00:16:36.520 And I wouldn't even say that Trump with a birthright citizenship is the lead in most papers.

00:16:42.200 It's like the Constitution can't be amended by presidential fiat and it can't be undone

00:16:48.400 by presidential fiat either.

00:16:49.700 Trump and I actually, you know, we got into this when I interviewed him about a year ago.

00:16:53.640 Like, it's really tough to undo birthright citizenship.

00:16:58.260 But he's he's at least got an argument on like Biden.

00:17:01.660 You know, Rich, the argument on birthright citizenship is that subject to the jurist and sub

00:17:05.620 born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

00:17:08.480 And that's what even some very smart legal scholars will say that actually is an opening

00:17:13.700 and it's worth having the argument.

00:17:16.680 Yeah, there's ambiguity.

00:17:17.500 There's there's an argument about it.

00:17:18.840 Probably need Congress to do it rather than do it by executive order, even if there is an

00:17:23.100 opening there to say illegal aliens, their children aren't aren't natural born citizens.

00:17:30.520 But just the last 24 hours, complete show of force and completely what we were told was

00:17:37.240 going to happen.

00:17:38.140 And I think there's just been this through line of consistency and pretty much everything

00:17:43.220 Trump said over the last year or two that he's going to do what he said in his inaugural

00:17:47.320 address he was going to do and what he did.

00:17:50.060 And maybe you can say, you know, J.D.

00:17:51.920 Vance and others, Pam Bondi said there was going to be a case by case evaluation.

00:17:55.080 The January 6th defendants.

00:17:56.280 I think that would have been a better idea instead of this this sweeping pardons.

00:18:00.640 But you can't be surprised that he pardoned these people in some form or are the right

00:18:04.680 because it's exactly what he said he was going to do.

00:18:07.820 And the contrast is not the first time that J.D.

00:18:10.520 is trying to say, like, this is what Trump's going to do.

00:18:12.960 And then Trump does his own thing.

00:18:14.240 So, like, I'm not saying J.D.

00:18:17.360 doesn't know what's going on, but when it comes to Trump, only Trump can speak for Trump,

00:18:22.380 you know, like trust Trump's word.

00:18:23.880 And, you know, even if he said to J.D. in the moment, I'm not going to pardon everyone.

00:18:29.840 I'm going to like not I'm going to leave like the alleged violent offenders still in prison.

00:18:35.600 Maybe it changed his mind.

00:18:36.700 And technically he didn't pardon everyone.

00:18:38.680 He pardoned almost all of them.

00:18:40.100 And then he commuted the sentences of the ones who were sort of in the worst category.

00:18:44.520 Sorry, keep going, Rich.

00:18:45.380 I interrupted.

00:18:45.880 Yeah, no, just a deeper point, though, is that you wouldn't you're not surprised, right?

00:18:48.780 You said he was going to do this.

00:18:50.040 Now, so he's he campaigned on what he wanted to do, and now he's doing it probably sets

00:18:54.980 a new standard, right?

00:18:56.240 We've the old FDR standard is what are you going to do in your first hundred days?

00:19:00.580 Now, the new standard probably be what are your first 100 executive orders going to be?

00:19:05.460 And maybe it'd be better if we still had to focus more on what you're going to get through

00:19:09.460 Congress in the first hundred days.

00:19:11.220 But the energy is unstoppable.

00:19:14.020 I remember someone, a reporter who's significantly younger than Trump, traveled with him in 2016.

00:19:20.400 It was just totally exhausted, dragging around.

00:19:23.440 And he recounted there's just one moment where he saw a little bit of fatigue on the part of

00:19:27.880 Donald Trump.

00:19:28.540 He'd done a rally in Las Vegas that was stopped at 2 a.m.

00:19:33.360 Eastern Standard Time where they'd started the day or something like that.

00:19:36.380 When they got in the car leaving the rally, Trump said, this guy, don't speak, and closed

00:19:41.240 his eyes to arrest us briefly.

00:19:43.460 But he's a complete force of nature.

00:19:45.900 He's unstoppable.

00:19:48.120 That's what I say to Doug in the mornings when we wake up and he pops right out of bed

00:19:52.680 and he's ready to chit chat and get the day started.

00:19:55.620 And I'm a much slower riser.

00:19:58.060 It takes me a while to become alert.

00:20:00.120 And that's what I say.

00:20:01.500 Don't don't don't speak.

00:20:03.080 Don't speak.

00:20:03.800 Does anyone know that movie reference?

00:20:05.020 Don't speak.

00:20:05.860 Don't speak.

00:20:06.820 I'll give you a clue.

00:20:08.280 Diane Wiest says it.

00:20:10.300 You can email me, Megan, at megankelly.com.

00:20:14.400 OK, so the J6 pardons, they are freaking out about.

00:20:18.000 They're very upset.

00:20:18.780 But it just feels like they've waived the right to really make this a thing after Joe

00:20:26.700 Biden's preemptive pardons for his entire family, for Fauci, going back to 2014.

00:20:34.380 OK, again, we talked about this on the show yesterday, but why does Fauci need a pardon

00:20:38.540 going back to 2014?

00:20:41.100 I really think it has to do with that's the gain of function research back then and how

00:20:45.560 deeply his hands were in it through Peter Daszak's group and this Wuhan lab.

00:20:50.020 Anyway, the point is, they've seen it and you see the list of presidential pardons.

00:20:54.820 Have you guys seen this tweet that's going around?

00:20:56.220 It's like Bill Clinton, you know, 800 George W.

00:21:00.080 Bush, 400 Joe Biden, 8000.

00:21:04.160 It's like how can they complain, Rich?

00:21:06.940 Yeah, well, they wanted to get the 8000 number right or thousands to try to pretty up the

00:21:13.280 one that this was all about, Hunter Biden and the family business and by extension now the

00:21:18.440 other family members.

00:21:20.360 But they wanted to create the sense that this just extremely merciful president just happens

00:21:25.480 that his his his son was one of the one of the thousands of of people who have benefited

00:21:31.280 from his pardons and commutations.

00:21:34.440 And, you know, I would think if you're a Fauci or a Millie, you wouldn't want the pardon.

00:21:39.760 It it doesn't it's not formally a statement of guilt, but there's an odor of guilt about

00:21:44.440 it.

00:21:44.600 But both of them actually said they they did want it just for peace of mind.

00:21:48.200 But the better way to do this, if in the off chance they were getting prosecuted, just

00:21:52.440 fight it.

00:21:53.320 Right.

00:21:53.660 What what crime?

00:21:54.740 I think he's hasn't been honest in front of Congress and the gain of function stuff was

00:22:00.420 was bad.

00:22:01.640 But is he really committed a crime?

00:22:04.160 You know, what crime is Liz Cheney committed that that this speech and debate clause wouldn't

00:22:08.980 cover even if there is a crime there?

00:22:11.640 So it's just typical of of what we saw the last four years.

00:22:15.760 The guy who's warning about the rule of law and what a threat his potential successor is

00:22:20.140 is going to be to it is not playing by the rules himself at all.

00:22:25.980 And the statement about how inconvenient and trying the process is, you know, it's like

00:22:31.040 just just having to go through the legal process after one is indicted.

00:22:34.920 That's reason enough for me to do this is like, hello, preacher, you're the one causing

00:22:40.680 this ailment in the Republican Party.

00:22:42.960 I mean, tell it to Steve Bannon, you know, tell it to Donald Trump.

00:22:47.040 I'll tell it to Paul Manafort.

00:22:48.440 Yeah, like we could keep going.

00:22:49.380 There are a lot of people under Trump who have been in the crosshairs of Biden's DOJ.

00:22:54.820 And, you know, one person Biden did not did not pardon is himself.

00:22:58.120 So it's like, just be careful.

00:23:00.560 Like, you don't want to poke this bear too much.

00:23:02.680 Um, here is Simone Sanders, who's a spokesperson.

00:23:07.500 She used to be with Bernie Sanders.

00:23:08.620 And she went on to this White House and her take on MSNBC yesterday.

00:23:14.100 And one, um, a senior Dem state legislator from out West text me and said, you know,

00:23:20.040 he, he literally just let his private militia out of jail.

00:23:22.960 He said he's instilled a sense of loyalty.

00:23:25.100 These are, these people feel loyal to him.

00:23:27.280 And their lawlessness is now going to, is now going to go unchecked and he can now call

00:23:32.220 on them again to do what they would like.

00:23:34.880 His private militia just got out of jail.

00:23:36.920 What do you think, Charles?

00:23:39.440 Well, I wouldn't put it like that.

00:23:41.160 And I think that's an extrapolation that is typical of MSNBC because they always think

00:23:46.720 everything is some great fascist plot.

00:23:49.420 And Elon Musk was hinting at this for reasons unknown when he waved at the crowd yesterday.

00:23:56.020 But I do think it's pretty bad.

00:23:57.740 I do think a lot of the people who were involved in January 6th committed crimes and behaved

00:24:06.240 in a way that is completely unbecoming of a republic with the encouragement at the time

00:24:11.140 of the president.

00:24:13.540 And I think if we were looking at this the other way around, and we were talking about,

00:24:19.500 say, rioters from the summer of 2020, and the Democratic president had issued these mass

00:24:28.420 pardons, some of which covered people who had been violent and antagonistic towards the

00:24:33.620 police, we would say that that is corruption and it's partisan.

00:24:37.820 And it is.

00:24:38.840 I do agree with you from a political perspective that the decisions that Joe Biden made at the

00:24:43.800 end of his presidency are just utterly inexplicable.

00:24:47.140 He was, he says, inspired to run for president because of Donald Trump and his desire to restore

00:24:54.460 dignity and honor to the White House and respect the rule of law and all of that.

00:24:58.080 And he ended his presidency by being more lawless than really any president in modern times, and

00:25:05.980 thereby pulling the rug out from under anyone who wants to complain about this.

00:25:09.640 But two wrongs do not make a right.

00:25:11.780 And I think that the abuse of the pardon power that we have seen over the last five days should

00:25:15.980 make a case for its being restricted.

00:25:19.020 You have to do that with the constitutional amendment, of course.

00:25:21.700 It would be almost impossible because no president wants to give it up.

00:25:25.360 But I would favor that.

00:25:26.680 I'm with the anti-federalists on this.

00:25:28.180 I think it was a mistake to put it in.

00:25:29.520 And even if it wasn't, I think it is now a mistake to have it in the constitution.

00:25:33.720 I would get rid of it.

00:25:35.260 Yeah, I take your point.

00:25:36.880 I mean, just as somebody who practiced law for a long time, it just feels odd to have

00:25:40.760 a president then swoop in and undo all the all the things that, you know, it's supposed

00:25:45.660 to be used sparingly to to write a miscarriage of justice.

00:25:49.640 And I actually do think on most of those J6 pardons, that is what happened.

00:25:54.480 I just think that the administration, the Biden administration lost its mind over J6, you

00:26:01.100 know, the insurrection stuff and overcharged so many of these defendants and really did

00:26:06.840 get too zealous.

00:26:09.580 I mean, just treated them like they were dangerous felons when really they had meandered into

00:26:15.480 the Capitol building, in many cases thinking it was OK and failed to draw enough distinction

00:26:20.900 between those people and the people who actually did assault cops.

00:26:24.040 I'm with you.

00:26:24.860 I don't really have a ton of sympathy for the people who assaulted the police officers,

00:26:28.880 and I don't think that they deserved commutations.

00:26:31.940 But I think the vast majority of these J6 defendants were political prisoners in a way,

00:26:37.120 Rich, and that they were they were made to pay a price that the left was just frustrated

00:26:41.560 they couldn't make Donald Trump pay.

00:26:43.060 Yeah, I'm open to the idea there's over sentencing here and overcharging that the charge of parading,

00:26:50.700 right, was basically walking through the the Capitol seems to be stretching the law just

00:26:54.540 to find an offense.

00:26:56.180 But these pardons cover people who fought with cops, assaulted cops.

00:27:01.380 And anyone who does that, I don't care whether they're on the right or left in between political,

00:27:05.980 not political, deserves to go to jail.

00:27:08.980 And, you know, you can follow a sentence.

00:27:10.640 But that's a case by case evaluation.

00:27:14.320 So agree.

00:27:15.220 I mean, I think everybody sitting on this panel is generally, well, not Charlie,

00:27:18.660 but you and I, Rich, are pro-law enforcement.

00:27:20.500 Charlie doesn't want cops or the FBI or really laws.

00:27:23.420 I like now.

00:27:24.240 Hang on, hang on.

00:27:25.180 It's the FBI.

00:27:26.360 I think the FBI doesn't fit within our system because it's federal.

00:27:29.500 I have no issue with cops.

00:27:31.260 I've never had an issue with cops.

00:27:33.040 I saw what you did there, Megan.

00:27:34.380 I like it.

00:27:34.960 I'm a localist, though.

00:27:36.200 I like the more local the cop, the more I like them.

00:27:39.000 Okay.

00:27:39.240 So, yeah, so we are, I think we're all generally pro-cop and it doesn't matter whether it's

00:27:43.980 a J6 cop or it's another cop, like, don't want to see them getting assaulted by bullies

00:27:48.220 or criminals.

00:27:49.280 But the thing that does give me some pause on this is how the left just, like, they

00:27:55.940 completely let all of the cop assaulters on their side, Antifa, et cetera, get away with

00:28:04.520 every single one for the better part of a year post-George Floyd or at least half a year.

00:28:11.680 And we all sat there stunned and horrified that there wouldn't be charges.

00:28:18.120 2,000 cops were injured at the hands of those post-George Floyd protesters.

00:28:23.320 And the left was like, hmm, you broke the social contract, so you deserved it.

00:28:27.100 So it is galling to see people who were, I don't know, I think in a lot of cases temporarily

00:28:33.200 insane, post-COVID, post that year of George Floyd and so on, just weren't themselves.

00:28:38.780 And I'm not excusing assaulting police officers.

00:28:42.100 I'm just saying, like, if you're going to have empathy for anybody, it might be the people

00:28:46.440 at that point in America who'd just been driven to a boiling point.

00:28:49.560 And so, but they get nothing.

00:28:50.880 They get the book thrown at them and there's absolutely nobody around to feel sorry for them

00:28:54.940 or put their behavior in any sort of cultural, societal context.

00:29:01.080 Yeah, it's totally hypocritical.

00:29:03.100 They were insistent that there's an insurrection, right?

00:29:05.780 Almost immediately, that became the mandatory way it had to be described.

00:29:10.140 The term was used, you know, thousands of times just in the initial days after the riot.

00:29:16.500 And the truth is, you know, it wasn't Nancy Pelosi's fault, but if someone had had the

00:29:23.040 National Guard there or 100 more police officers or just more of a show of force, it never would

00:29:28.460 have happened.

00:29:29.300 It never would have happened.

00:29:30.500 It was a riot that ran out of control.

00:29:32.860 Doesn't mean that there weren't a lot of bad actors.

00:29:34.600 Doesn't mean that there weren't people who, a very small group that really wanted to do

00:29:40.340 this and was determined to do this.

00:29:42.900 But a riot, a element of a riot, just the crowd psychology is there are a couple leaders

00:29:48.540 who get it going and then everyone else kind of loses their minds.

00:29:53.160 There's a great book written about this English soccer thugs.

00:29:58.180 And the author pointed out, things are kind of under control until there's the sound of

00:30:04.480 shattered glass.

00:30:05.500 And that immediately just sets off this ativistic instinct in people.

00:30:10.660 OK, all the rules are gone.

00:30:12.380 Now, that doesn't that doesn't make riots good.

00:30:14.720 They're bad.

00:30:15.820 I don't want anyone who's punching cops, whether Antifa or a J6 loyalist to Donald Trump getting

00:30:24.280 off scot-free.

00:30:25.880 So, again, I would have done a case by case evaluation the way J.D. and Pam Bondi were

00:30:30.260 talking about.

00:30:31.200 But now this is done and it's not going to be popular.

00:30:34.340 But there's so many other things that have happened in the last 24 hours.

00:30:37.620 I think it kind of gets worried.

00:30:39.240 I feel like it's let's move forward.

00:30:40.720 I will say this.

00:30:42.320 Joe Biden pardoned how many criminals in the past month, including, you know, Glenn Youngkin

00:30:48.720 is jumping up and down about this in Virginia, including two convicted cop killers.

00:30:53.640 Where's the left jumping up and down about that?

00:30:56.580 There were no cop, zero cop killers on January 6th, even though the left is still trying to

00:31:02.100 peddle the lie that there were.

00:31:03.980 There were no no cops were killed on January 6th.

00:31:07.100 But they but they were killed in the past in Virginia and elsewhere.

00:31:09.920 And at least two cop killers in Virginia were let out by Joe Biden without so much as an

00:31:14.220 explanation.

00:31:15.280 Where's that headline?

00:31:16.460 New York Times.

00:31:17.740 Here is Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey peddling the lie.

00:31:21.480 You'll hear it at the tail end here again that cops died that day.

00:31:25.820 But the people he pardoned, his family members, did not before the naked public eye beat police

00:31:33.380 officers, try to overthrow our government, lead to the death of police officers.

00:31:38.760 This is not about left or right in our country.

00:31:41.080 We can't just say this is a tit for tat or their side did it so my side can do it.

00:31:45.340 No, this is about the values and principles that we should all be looking to uphold.

00:31:50.300 The president of the United States of America has just pardoned people who physically attacked,

00:31:57.320 violently led to the death of officers like Sicknick.

00:32:01.060 And we should be talking about that.

00:32:04.200 OK, there's that's not true.

00:32:06.800 That is not true.

00:32:07.640 Brian Sicknick died of natural causes.

00:32:11.500 That is what the Emmy found.

00:32:13.100 And the only person who died that day was Ashley Babbitt, who was shot by a police officer on Capitol

00:32:18.400 Hill who's five foot one.

00:32:20.300 OK, that's it.

00:32:22.520 He's wrong.

00:32:23.600 He said the people Joe Biden just pardoned didn't kill any police officers or attack.

00:32:27.660 Yes, they did.

00:32:28.680 As I just pointed out, Biden did pardon cop killers.

00:32:32.240 He maybe he doesn't know about it because the media won't talk about it, Charles.

00:32:35.360 But you and I both know Biden just pardoned a whole host of actually dangerous criminals.

00:32:41.820 The left just doesn't care.

00:32:43.580 They I don't know if it's because they want those people back on the street because it's

00:32:47.480 a Democrat who did it.

00:32:48.560 But they're much more obsessed with cops being battered by J6 defendants, which, again,

00:32:54.900 we all agree is not a good thing.

00:32:56.240 But we had there's a scale in the criminal law and actually shooting dead to cops is by

00:33:01.820 anyone's measure worse than having a fistfight with them on Capitol Hill.

00:33:06.160 I think that there are just a huge number of people on the left who don't know much about

00:33:13.380 the country they live in.

00:33:15.080 As I say, two wrongs don't make a right.

00:33:17.060 So don't interpret this as a justification of what Trump did.

00:33:20.760 But they don't know that those pardons were issued.

00:33:24.680 Right from the beginning of Joe Biden's presidency, he was a character, an avatar, creation of

00:33:32.260 a political movement that needed him to be a certain way.

00:33:35.680 Last time I was on the show, we went all the way through the number of times it was said

00:33:40.780 on television that Joe Biden's refusal to pardon his son said so much, showed so much.

00:33:45.780 It was illustrative of the moral virtue of those left of center within the Democratic

00:33:52.080 Party, and it just wasn't true.

00:33:54.780 He, little did we know at that point, then made it much, much worse at last minute, pardoning

00:34:00.620 members of his family, blanket pardons that go back 11 years.

00:34:05.700 I just think that one of the issues that the left has, and one of the reasons they lost

00:34:10.860 the last election, despite Donald Trump's behavior after the 2020 election, was because

00:34:17.500 they don't know much about the country they live in.

00:34:19.880 They don't know much about the people who live in it.

00:34:21.940 And they don't know much about how its politics work, because they're constantly fed this

00:34:26.260 narrow set of news.

00:34:28.640 It would not shock me if Cory Booker didn't know that those pardons were issued.

00:34:34.240 I look at that guy, who I think is a fraud.

00:34:37.020 I'm not pretending he's some oracle.

00:34:38.420 Spartacus?

00:34:38.940 I look at that guy, and he strikes me more as a naive than as a liar.

00:34:45.700 I think he doesn't know.

00:34:46.620 I think he doesn't know.

00:34:47.980 Yeah, there's no way he knows.

00:34:49.480 And as a lot of people repeat the lie about Charlottesville and Trump, who just don't

00:34:53.480 know.

00:34:53.800 And I was struck, Megan, by an interview with Pete Buttigieg on Squawk Box several months

00:34:58.300 ago, and they were pushing him about the border Joe Kernan was, and why did you reverse all

00:35:03.220 this Trump stuff that was working?

00:35:04.600 And he said, no, we only reverse child separations.

00:35:08.020 Child separations happen for about 10 days.

00:35:10.300 Then they were stopped in reverse during the Trump administration.

00:35:15.040 So everything that was thrown out the window by Biden was totally different, was working,

00:35:20.660 and was humane and not immoral.

00:35:22.760 But he didn't know.

00:35:23.960 And he's supposed to be one of the smartest Democrats in the room because they live in

00:35:28.900 this information bubble.

00:35:30.060 Let me give you some facts on the two guys and the crime I'm talking about that Biden

00:35:36.540 just commuted the sentences of.

00:35:38.640 All right.

00:35:39.280 Without explanation, we don't know why these cop killers suddenly got a free pass out of

00:35:43.740 jail.

00:35:44.620 Again, the left won't tell you this.

00:35:46.080 They're just going to focus on proud boys, proud boys.

00:35:48.960 Glenn Young can call this to the public's attention, releasing the following statement

00:35:52.620 just a day or two ago after Biden did it, saying, OK, he announced clemency of violent

00:35:59.220 criminals, Ferron Claiborne and Terrence Richardson, two men who admitted to being responsible for

00:36:04.560 the brutal killing of Officer Allen Gibson, a Sussex County police officer.

00:36:09.640 Quote, this is Youngkin, I'm beyond outraged and in utter disbelief that President Biden

00:36:14.140 would announce clemency for Ferron Claiborne and Terrence Richardson, two men who admitted

00:36:18.140 to being responsible to brutally killing Officer Allen Gibson, a hero and dedicated servant

00:36:24.520 to the community, said Youngkin.

00:36:25.840 What makes this even more unconscionable is the Biden U.S.

00:36:29.760 attorney advised the White House not to commute these sentences as they are violent offenders.

00:36:36.220 The pain and sorrow this clemency causes the Gibson family is unimaginable.

00:36:39.860 To know that the men who took Officer Gibson's life will walk free is not just a grave injustice.

00:36:44.900 It's a heartbreaking blow to those who continue to mourn his sacrifice.

00:36:49.000 This is despicable.

00:36:50.320 A grim day for justice and for the families who trust that our system will hold the guilty

00:36:53.600 accountable.

00:36:54.000 I've seen cop after cop on CNN talking about how sad they are that Trump did this with

00:36:59.100 the J6 defendants.

00:37:00.620 Where are the families of this cop?

00:37:03.480 Why don't why don't I see them on CNN talking about how they feel that their father's and

00:37:10.440 husband's killer was just a killers were just allowed out?

00:37:14.280 And here's just a little color for you.

00:37:16.380 It happened in 1998.

00:37:17.380 The officer put on his bulletproof vest, said goodbye to his eight-year-old daughter,

00:37:23.900 Chrisana, and Officer Gibson, the now decedent, found Terrence Richardson and Ferron Claiborne

00:37:30.000 engaged in a drug deal behind an apartment building.

00:37:32.580 They both attacked Officer Gibson and Richardson, disarmed him, and fatally shot him in the stomach

00:37:38.940 right below his bulletproof vest, leaving that eight-year-old girl without a dad.

00:37:45.100 I'm sorry, but it's just really tough to get worked up about the Proud Boys guy or the

00:37:51.520 guy even with the, what was it, the flagpole, when no one gives two craps about this.

00:38:03.880 It's like, it's not even and it's not right.

00:38:07.060 Okay, that's J6.

00:38:09.140 Let's move on.

00:38:09.900 Um, gosh, there's a lot to go through.

00:38:12.580 Let's talk about the border crackdown because it's already happening.

00:38:16.340 It's in full swing.

00:38:17.880 They already got their notifications on the CBP one app.

00:38:21.600 Um, all appointments are canceled.

00:38:23.140 You will not be coming in and, and seeking asylum here.

00:38:26.200 President Trump has declared an emergency at the border, has declared an invasion,

00:38:30.060 which gives him all sorts of powers.

00:38:31.760 And now what I'm seeing on the media and on social media is videos like this one of migrants

00:38:39.360 weeping in Juarez after they found out this had happened.

00:38:43.880 Satu.

00:38:44.240 I would like, that's what the next year, two, three, four are going to look like on most

00:39:10.000 cable channels and broadcast news channels, Rich, because at heart, the elite news media

00:39:17.480 doesn't want this to happen, even though the country overwhelmingly does.

00:39:22.380 Yeah, totally.

00:39:23.040 So look, I sympathize to migrants.

00:39:24.720 They're desperate people.

00:39:25.640 And that woman thought she was going to get in the United States and win life's lottery.

00:39:28.780 And that was pulled, pulled away for her.

00:39:30.820 Now for good reasons, right?

00:39:32.040 I'm very strongly supportive of a secure border and interior enforcement.

00:39:37.960 And this app was way around our laws that the Biden administration fashioned.

00:39:42.680 So they could say the number of illegal immigrants was going down the same time.

00:39:47.940 They're getting exactly the same people into the country through a pretext that they came

00:39:54.500 up with through this app.

00:39:56.400 So, you know, Trump invoked these emergency powers, you know, he's going to be sending

00:40:03.420 troops to the border.

00:40:04.600 That's not really the issue.

00:40:06.520 More manpower helps at the margins.

00:40:08.600 But you have to change the policies that let people into the country to abuse our asylum

00:40:14.320 process and never leave.

00:40:16.300 So you need to exclude them.

00:40:18.020 So that's why Remain in Mexico was so important.

00:40:20.700 That's why these so-called safe third country agreements were so important, right?

00:40:24.680 If you say you're politically persecuted in Honduras, what we would say is, oh, well, Guatemala

00:40:28.620 will take you.

00:40:29.720 And then the person from Honduras would say, actually, maybe I'm not that politically persecuted.

00:40:33.900 I'll just stay home.

00:40:35.060 So all that work needs to be re-implemented.

00:40:37.760 Now, those countries might not be interested in doing it.

00:40:39.480 Certainly Mexico isn't.

00:40:41.120 But that's where the tariffs and other cajoling and bullying comes in to get them to resign

00:40:46.700 on the dotted line and cooperate with us.

00:40:48.800 No, it's like the government offering a homeless person free stay at the days in.

00:40:54.220 And they're like, no, I want to be at the Ritz.

00:40:57.500 That's us, the United States.

00:40:59.120 Well, sorry, you got to stay the days in Guatemala or Mexico.

00:41:03.020 You can't come to the Ritz-Carlton on the taxpayer's dime.

00:41:06.900 It's that's not no longer going to be a thing.

00:41:10.840 Charles, happy to hear your thoughts on the immigration and what's happening.

00:41:13.860 But I also want to get to Trump pulling us out of the Paris Climate Accords and what

00:41:18.720 he's doing on the Green New Deal and the green energy policies that the left pushed through.

00:41:23.880 Here's Trump pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord at Capital One Arena at that desk when

00:41:29.500 he appeared yesterday.

00:41:30.580 Sot One.

00:41:30.960 But I'm immediately withdrawing from the unfair one sided Paris Climate Accord ripoff.

00:41:41.820 The United States will not sabotage your own industries while China pollutes with impunity.

00:41:50.300 Well, and he went on about China and just what a massive polluter they are and like, what are

00:41:53.920 we doing to ourselves here?

00:41:55.080 I love everything about that.

00:41:58.860 I love what he said, which was coupled in his inauguration address with a promise to drill

00:42:05.220 baby drill and use the energy that is imperative.

00:42:09.520 I like the policy.

00:42:11.840 We should never have been in that agreement.

00:42:13.560 We should not be in any agreement that restricts our ability to grow our economy.

00:42:19.280 And I like it as a matter of constitutional hygiene.

00:42:21.860 If this were a treaty that had been ratified by the Senate, then the president could not

00:42:26.200 have stood there yesterday and announced that.

00:42:28.660 But they rarely are, these arrangements.

00:42:32.560 They're executive agreements.

00:42:34.580 And the thing with executive agreements, irrespective of the merits, is that they can be pulled out

00:42:39.540 of just as easily as they can be made.

00:42:42.300 And Donald Trump demonstrated that neatly.

00:42:45.100 This is the side of the new administration that I absolutely love.

00:42:48.900 That was legal.

00:42:50.080 It was good for our constitution.

00:42:51.420 It was good for the country.

00:42:53.020 It's good policy.

00:42:53.840 And the way he characterized it is just so important.

00:42:57.600 This is a matter of debate in Britain, too, where the British, who have even less of an

00:43:04.120 impact on the global climate than the United States, are destroying their country.

00:43:10.720 They're destroying their economy.

00:43:12.080 They're making old people spend their winter shivering in the corner because of guilt over

00:43:19.380 a problem that is mostly now the product of the developing world.

00:43:24.580 I don't, by the way, begrudge them that.

00:43:26.920 I mean, it's really the height of hypocrisy to turn around and say, especially to India

00:43:30.780 and China, you can't develop in the way we did.

00:43:33.400 But the British, the United States, France, Germany, for us to be doing what we have done

00:43:39.820 over the last 5, 10, 15 years in the name of climate change, while China is bringing on

00:43:45.240 hundreds of coal power stations every year, is preposterous.

00:43:48.900 And I'm glad that Trump came out and said it as bluntly that he did.

00:43:51.480 He pulled out of the WHO, too.

00:43:55.620 He pulled the United States.

00:43:56.260 I don't know exactly know what that means, to be honest, Rich, like that we're no longer

00:43:59.600 participating in the World Health Organization.

00:44:01.560 I suppose it's the funding because he accompanied it by pointing out that we've got but a fraction

00:44:08.780 of the population that China does, and yet we pay 90 percent of the cost versus what China

00:44:15.760 pays.

00:44:16.560 I may have botched that a little bit, but that's basically what Trump was saying, that why are

00:44:20.320 we the pocketbook for all these world initiatives?

00:44:25.860 Yeah, an institution that's been disproportionately influenced by China and wasn't playing it

00:44:32.540 straight on the origins of COVID.

00:44:35.120 I just have to say, going back to the Paris Accords, it's so enjoyable to think about all

00:44:40.860 these European observers being so outraged, one, that we're pulling back out, and two, that

00:44:46.580 this American president is doing it in front of a roaring and cheering crowd.

00:44:52.260 It was also amazing to watch Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have to sit within feet of Donald

00:45:00.300 Trump when he completely excoriated their miserable misgovernance over the last four years.

00:45:08.580 Now, every president, when a president of another party is coming in, it's no fun to be at the

00:45:13.600 inauguration, but to be within feet of him when he speaks of what they've done in such

00:45:19.960 harsh and unsparing terms was kind of another of the incredible spectacles we saw yesterday.

00:45:26.400 It was amazing.

00:45:27.220 But I love the climate initiatives that Trump is pushing through.

00:45:30.820 I mentioned this a little yesterday, but the wind, the unnecessary, wasteful, toxic, terrible,

00:45:39.380 ocean-polluting, animal-killing wind turbines are all getting a second look.

00:45:45.420 Anything that required federal approval for a land lease, which almost all of them have,

00:45:50.980 that aren't built already, is getting reviewed.

00:45:53.960 And there's a guy in New Jersey, you guys know, Rich, you've been there.

00:45:59.600 There's a guy in New Jersey that we own property in New Jersey, and that's where we spend our

00:46:02.960 summers.

00:46:03.240 And this has been a very big deal for all people in New Jersey.

00:46:06.580 For a long time, they're going to move massive windmills along the coast less than 10 miles

00:46:12.140 from shore, where you can see them, you can hear them.

00:46:14.380 It's going to ruin, you know, just the serenity of the shore, which is one of the jewels of America.

00:46:19.300 That is an absolute jewel.

00:46:20.980 Well, the Jersey Shore, I realize I've got a bad reputation thanks to Snooki and our friend

00:46:24.260 The Situation, who we love, but the vast majority of the Jersey Shore is white sand beaches and

00:46:29.620 absolutely beautiful ocean front.

00:46:32.020 And why would we ruin it on this very ineffective, inefficient, toxic green energy program when

00:46:39.420 we have-

00:46:40.060 And drive the whales insane, Megan.

00:46:42.000 And that's a real thing.

00:46:43.500 That's a real thing.

00:46:44.200 President Trump was mocked for that, but go look at Michael Schellenberger.

00:46:47.480 He did a whole documentary on how these poor whales really are being driven insane.

00:46:51.960 And Congressman Jeff Van Drew, he's from New Jersey, he actually tweeted out,

00:46:56.780 stopping offshore wind remains our top priority.

00:47:00.200 With President Trump back in office, we'll work together to end the Green News scam and

00:47:04.040 shut down these disastrous offshore wind projects.

00:47:06.220 And now, indeed, what's going to happen is they're all getting reviewed, all of these

00:47:11.520 leases.

00:47:12.200 That's just one of them, because he also mentioned yesterday our stoves, our vehicles, and hello,

00:47:20.660 Charlie, he mentioned the light bulb.

00:47:23.400 Is it possible Trump is bringing back the incandescent bulb?

00:47:27.860 I mean, that is a perfect example of what I was just talking about, right, which is that

00:47:33.440 you look at the supposed problem that we face, and then you look at the solution, which is

00:47:38.660 to change our light bulbs.

00:47:40.600 It's just, it's so petty.

00:47:44.040 I am one of those odd people who's not bothered by LED light bulbs.

00:47:48.800 I don't like the mandate.

00:47:50.060 But one thing I really, really loved, Megan, was the reversal of the EV mandate.

00:47:55.560 Electric vehicles, if people want to buy them without subsidies, that's fine.

00:48:01.980 But they don't.

00:48:03.980 The vast majority of people don't want this, which is why it's a mandate.

00:48:08.320 Also, the Biden administration knows that the vast majority of people don't like this,

00:48:13.020 which is why the Biden administration has lied about it, pretending that it's not a mandate.

00:48:18.260 It's just a mechanism by which it will be illegal not to do it up to two thirds or 70% within

00:48:24.800 10 years, which is a mandate.

00:48:26.800 The idea here is to make it unaffordable for car companies to produce gasoline cars.

00:48:33.100 Well, I may not care about light bulbs so much.

00:48:36.020 I love gasoline cars.

00:48:38.060 I'm something of a petrol head.

00:48:39.880 I am in that regard part of a long tradition from my country of birth, England, and a long

00:48:45.180 tradition of my adopted country, the United States.

00:48:47.580 This is a place that people love to be able to choose whatever they want to buy.

00:48:53.940 And what they want to buy is not electric vehicles.

00:48:56.660 So that was a great moment yesterday as well.

00:48:59.580 I hate the LED light bulbs.

00:49:02.280 Hate.

00:49:02.940 They are so unflattering.

00:49:04.600 They are blinding.

00:49:05.500 It is an FBI via vase of making you talk.

00:49:08.880 Maybe that's more KGB.

00:49:10.680 Kind of light.

00:49:11.580 I'll tell you, here in my studio, I asked them to give me a good light above the desk

00:49:15.900 for when I just want to work here.

00:49:17.260 I'm not on the air.

00:49:18.120 And they put one in and I almost never use it.

00:49:20.300 I'm going to show you.

00:49:20.940 Let me see if I can capture it.

00:49:22.400 What happens when I turn it on?

00:49:23.780 It truly is like an interrogation light.

00:49:27.680 So much.

00:49:29.020 Who wants to work like that?

00:49:30.600 Oh, yeah.

00:49:31.100 That's true.

00:49:33.040 So I miss the incandescent bulb.

00:49:35.480 It's a much nicer mood setter.

00:49:37.500 It's like a warm amber glow, which you can crank up if you want.

00:49:42.220 It is not an equivalent of bamboo shoots under the fingernails approach to lighting.

00:49:49.240 And you should be able to choose, right?

00:49:50.840 Choose what you want.

00:49:52.060 It's the same thing with electric vehicles.

00:49:53.380 People don't have anything against electric vehicles.

00:49:55.500 They just hate the idea that they're going to be forced to buy them.

00:49:58.080 And look, thanks to Elon Musk and others, they found a market.

00:50:00.680 It's a niche market.

00:50:01.740 Affluent people buy them as their second or third car.

00:50:05.280 They can be great products, but they're not practical or affordable for most people.

00:50:11.240 And if you look at climate change in general, if we're going to beat climate change and the

00:50:15.460 climate is changing, there's a man-made element, it's going to be adaptation.

00:50:20.120 It's going to be greater technical proficiency.

00:50:22.820 The greatest thing we've done to reduce emissions is the technological innovations, fracking, right?

00:50:27.320 This opened up more reserves of natural gas.

00:50:29.420 That's the fundamentally American response to this kind of challenge.

00:50:34.580 Not to mention, we don't have enough charging stations.

00:50:36.680 Just ask the people in California who are told not to use the ones they have because ones had burned.

00:50:42.280 All right, Rich and Charlie, stay with us.

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00:52:58.920 Now, here I am in my studio, and my son just came home from school.

00:53:02.740 What are you doing home?

00:53:03.540 Wait, this is too early.

00:53:04.440 Everything okay?

00:53:05.360 Yeah, all good.

00:53:06.480 Okay.

00:53:07.060 You got out early today?

00:53:08.740 Yeah.

00:53:09.460 Awesome.

00:53:09.840 Okay, I got to do this now, and I'll talk to you in an hour.

00:53:13.160 All right, I love you, honey.

00:53:14.460 Love you.

00:53:15.320 That was my son, Yates, back early from school.

00:53:17.820 He seems fine now.

00:53:19.760 I guess there's news there.

00:53:21.360 I did want to tell you this.

00:53:23.940 Last night, okay, Charlie Cook is back with me,

00:53:26.500 so is Rich Lowry from National Review.

00:53:27.920 At that ball that we went, we went to the Starlight Ball, and it was like, I can't get over the social media of some of these people.

00:53:38.280 Like, they talk about, like, it being your prom.

00:53:41.680 I don't understand how you get to be, you know, in your 40s or 50s and still, like, treat this like it is like a debutante ball.

00:53:50.560 You know, I understand taking fun snaps with your family, with your friends at the thing, or if you see, like, a public figure you like.

00:53:57.240 But I'm sorry.

00:53:58.640 This brings me to Lauren Sanchez again.

00:54:01.120 She's going to be married to Jeff Bezos.

00:54:03.460 She showed up at the swearing-in ceremony with her breasts hanging out, you may have noticed.

00:54:09.660 And she was at this thing.

00:54:12.720 I didn't see her while there, but she posts all over social media.

00:54:16.620 I think she thinks she's American royalty.

00:54:18.900 Look at this.

00:54:20.000 Look at this.

00:54:20.600 It's like the dress is spread out, exactly the right lighting.

00:54:24.380 It's like she's sort of in amber glow.

00:54:27.140 Like, what?

00:54:28.940 Can I tell you?

00:54:30.060 Look at this.

00:54:30.660 The close-up with the hands covering the mouth, perfectly curated, like, oh, with the big lips that are also fake.

00:54:37.240 Everything about this woman is just fake.

00:54:39.840 So I am in a position to judge, I believe, because I am the opposite of this, you guys.

00:54:46.280 The woman who helped me with my clothing, because I can't choose things like that by myself, her name is Molly.

00:54:51.960 She's always like, send me a picture.

00:54:53.720 Send me a picture.

00:54:54.440 I literally have no pictures.

00:54:55.920 I don't take any pictures of myself with these things.

00:54:58.440 I will pose for pictures with others.

00:55:00.240 But it occurred to me last night, right before we left, oh, I should take, like, a picture with my family.

00:55:05.320 So I took one standing next to my daughter, Yardley.

00:55:08.600 I did post it on Insta, and I blurred her face because I don't show my kids.

00:55:12.300 But this is all I have.

00:55:13.860 I have one.

00:55:15.980 We're standing together.

00:55:17.620 My daughter is several inches taller than I am now.

00:55:20.340 She's only 13.

00:55:21.300 This is it.

00:55:22.180 This is all I got.

00:55:23.480 Why?

00:55:23.960 Because I'm a normal person who doesn't obsess over curating her image so everybody can admire me.

00:55:32.320 All the world around.

00:55:35.460 I don't get how you can be engaged to the world's richest man or one of them and still be this needy of attention.

00:55:42.540 Who would like to take that?

00:55:45.860 Over to Charlotte.

00:55:47.060 Well, you're at a slight disadvantage here, Megan, because you're talking to two men.

00:55:55.200 And I do think that this is probably a predominantly female thing.

00:56:00.140 And if it's not, we're not the sort of men who take pictures of ourselves all the time.

00:56:05.640 I think I'm pretty comfortable saying that of Rich.

00:56:10.420 How do you know, Charlie?

00:56:11.580 How can you say it with confidence?

00:56:13.260 I have known you for 12, 13 years.

00:56:15.720 I have very rarely seen you at events with a phone stuck in your face, taking selfies.

00:56:23.060 I mean, I agree with you.

00:56:25.320 I agree with you.

00:56:26.700 This is a strange thing.

00:56:28.020 And the main reason that I have always thought that this is odd behavior is that when you get into that mindset, you stop enjoying the moment.

00:56:39.520 I know that is a cliche, but it's true.

00:56:41.800 Not just because you spend so much time taking pictures and posing for pictures, but because you're constantly thinking, how do I look?

00:56:50.240 There's nothing wrong with trying to look nice.

00:56:52.180 You should look nice, especially if you go to a ball.

00:56:54.360 That's one of the points.

00:56:55.420 It's not a criticism of that.

00:56:56.860 But if you take it to that extent, you're actually not going to have any fun.

00:57:04.080 So I've never quite understood this.

00:57:07.140 I am very slightly.

00:57:08.920 I'm 40.

00:57:09.740 I'm very slightly too old for it.

00:57:13.880 I think this kicked in three or four years.

00:57:16.440 So is Lauren Sanchez.

00:57:17.360 She's my age.

00:57:18.440 Exactly.

00:57:18.800 Well, that's very true.

00:57:19.760 That's very true.

00:57:20.700 But, you know, I also was lucky in that I very slightly missed the point at which my entire childhood and college years were filmed, which would not have been a very good thing for me.

00:57:30.680 I don't have a portrayal on the Internet of me being 17.

00:57:36.640 So we're not going to see pictures of you like this, Charlie.

00:57:38.760 You did not show up to the National Review cruise like this.

00:57:44.120 No, I do.

00:57:45.480 There is a photograph of me at a music festival when I was 18 years old, semi-passed out, which is in a vault.

00:57:52.320 And we'll stay there.

00:57:53.240 I'm glad I don't have 300 more of them.

00:57:54.040 Well, if you ever run for vice president, I'm sure the left would be happy to parade it all over the papers like they did of J.D. Vance at that one Yale party.

00:58:01.000 And no doubt my constitution and ineligibility for office, which would be probably a bigger hurdle.

00:58:07.300 But no, I just I don't understand it.

00:58:10.220 There's a certain narcissism about it that is inexplicable.

00:58:13.560 Unless you say she's older than I am and she's married or about to be married to Jeff Bezos.

00:58:18.540 I find it bizarre.

00:58:20.000 We almost discussed this on the editors, Megan, but we left it on the cutting room floor.

00:58:24.540 But we agreed with you about Lauren Sanchez and how she dresses.

00:58:28.360 And Mark Zuckerberg was collateral damage here.

00:58:30.700 I don't think he meant to ogle her, but kind of looked at the right or wrong place, depending on how you look at it.

00:58:39.320 And was probably like, wait a minute, is she wearing a bra?

00:58:42.300 Right.

00:58:43.660 Every woman alive sitting next to her would have been caught in that same Mark Zuckerberg pose where you're like, oh, my God, I see breasts at an inauguration.

00:58:51.980 There they are.

00:58:53.040 Put the girls away.

00:58:53.980 It's only going to take about 50 minutes, Lauren.

00:58:57.680 They can go inside for 50 minutes.

00:58:59.660 You can bust them right back out after this.

00:59:01.780 It was shocking.

00:59:02.800 I will say, though, the Trump family, absolutely impeccable in their style.

00:59:07.820 They showed up, Trump and Melania and most of the other Trumps at all the balls doing the dance.

00:59:14.400 And it's always a sweet moment.

00:59:15.980 You know, I don't.

00:59:17.480 The only other inaugural ball I ever.

00:59:19.220 This is something.

00:59:20.000 What's that?

00:59:20.420 I love the Melania hat.

00:59:22.560 You like the hat?

00:59:23.640 Yeah.

00:59:24.000 You didn't like it?

00:59:24.700 Me and you, Megan.

00:59:25.360 I loved it.

00:59:25.900 I didn't like it.

00:59:27.340 What?

00:59:27.860 What didn't you like about it, Rich?

00:59:29.980 Because it did seem like a way, a weird way to kind of hide.

00:59:34.460 Look, she looks great in anything.

00:59:36.480 And she's a real.

00:59:37.840 Anything.

00:59:38.520 Style horse, right?

00:59:39.860 And I thought her.

00:59:41.040 I'm not a dress guy, but the inaugural dress was was stunning with that Z white Z on the black dress.

00:59:47.060 But I wasn't a fan of the the hat.

00:59:49.480 Certainly notable.

00:59:50.140 I laughed when somebody online said she looked like the Hamburglar.

00:59:54.180 I thought that was actually very funny with that hat.

00:59:56.980 It was not true.

00:59:57.860 I thought she looked like perfection.

00:59:59.580 I I can't get over how beautiful this woman is.

01:00:03.040 But Trump did, Charlie, tell a funny story at by his helicopter about the helicopter at the Capitol after his speech.

01:00:12.000 Take a listen here.

01:00:12.600 I shouldn't say this.

01:00:15.360 I'm going to get hell when I say this.

01:00:17.440 But her feet are absolutely aching.

01:00:20.760 You know, those heels.

01:00:22.520 She said, darling, I love you so much, but my feet are killing me.

01:00:27.560 I said, honey, let me just see how far it is.

01:00:30.560 I asked the person.

01:00:31.680 Oh, not that long.

01:00:32.640 Maybe four or five hundred yards.

01:00:34.220 That's five foot wall fields.

01:00:36.520 I said, can you make it?

01:00:37.920 She said, we're going to make it no matter what.

01:00:40.360 We're going to make it because we have to go.

01:00:42.080 Right.

01:00:44.300 Right.

01:00:44.740 And then we went out to the helicopter, though, just prior to this and said goodbye.

01:00:53.180 And it's a custom and the wind is blowing like crazy.

01:00:56.460 And with the hat that she's wearing, she almost blew away.

01:01:00.020 We almost lost.

01:01:03.100 She was being elevated off the ground.

01:01:06.160 She almost blew away.

01:01:07.520 No.

01:01:08.040 So we all appreciate it because you you've been a great first lady.

01:01:12.380 She almost blew away.

01:01:15.800 OK, but Charlie, without asking you, you can tell me how you feel about the hat.

01:01:19.500 But whose opinion I really want is MBD.

01:01:21.860 I feel like he'd have strong feelings on it.

01:01:23.560 But I do think Trump has a point about what a great first lady she is.

01:01:27.860 I she's my kind of first lady where she stays out of it.

01:01:31.440 She doesn't think she's secretly the president.

01:01:35.400 Yeah, there's a great Bill Burr segment about this.

01:01:38.040 So I encourage your listeners to go look up and it is a strange development in first ladydom

01:01:47.760 when they get involved in politics.

01:01:51.760 She's she's a good first lady.

01:01:53.420 I'll be honest with you.

01:01:54.200 It's not something I've thought a great deal about.

01:01:55.980 I do think her hat was exquisite.

01:01:58.000 So I'm on your side on this.

01:02:00.160 The outfit was great.

01:02:02.180 I think it's very classic.

01:02:03.780 I mean, it's it's got that 20s, 30s look.

01:02:08.700 It's it could be on the front of a ladies magazine from a PG Woodhouse novel.

01:02:15.200 And that's a compliment.

01:02:16.980 I thought it was absolutely terrific.

01:02:18.820 You've ruined it for me now by saying that the Hamburglar would wear a similar hat.

01:02:23.220 Now that's all I'm going to think of.

01:02:25.220 But this, Megan, this would be a sign that the vibe.

01:02:28.120 The vibe shift is really deep is right.

01:02:32.160 We have these entrepreneurs behind Trump.

01:02:34.660 We have Coke giving him commemorative bottle meta changing its policies, all that.

01:02:39.440 But the real sign of the vibe shift would be if a glossy magazine actually put the model

01:02:44.560 who's the first lady of the United States and looks fantastic on a cover.

01:02:48.960 Right.

01:02:49.220 It didn't happen the first time.

01:02:50.760 Maybe it'll happen this time around.

01:02:52.700 She's truly one of the most beautiful people on Earth.

01:02:55.180 And just the picture of class, she's been you could not have asked for more from a first

01:02:59.600 lady.

01:02:59.940 And I'm sure she's going to be just as great this time.

01:03:03.120 Trump and Vance showed up at, among other places, the commander in chief ball and thought

01:03:07.500 it might be fun to do the YMCA dance with swords, which is worth looking at.

01:03:11.360 Here it is.

01:03:14.100 It's just video.

01:03:15.300 Why do we don't?

01:03:15.900 Why didn't we have the sound here?

01:03:17.200 There he is doing his dance.

01:03:19.040 They whipped out swords.

01:03:21.420 You can see J.D. Vance like, what do I do?

01:03:23.500 Do I pick up this or do I do I do a sword fight with the president's really adding something

01:03:28.440 to it?

01:03:28.780 You guys look at the hips.

01:03:30.000 He went a little Elvis there.

01:03:31.340 He doesn't normally put the full wiggle into it.

01:03:33.980 But I think I think he was feeling pretty good.

01:03:37.260 You guys, I think this is what's his happiest.

01:03:40.800 Yeah.

01:03:41.000 Melania Trump backed off just a little bit because the sword was waving around her face.

01:03:46.720 This goes to what a fascinating and weird and dynamic place America is, right?

01:03:53.760 If someone had told you in 1977 when they came up with an idea of a disco band that would

01:03:59.100 cater to gay disco fans called the village people to invoke Greenwich Village.

01:04:03.880 And then, you know, 40 decades, 40 years later, whatever it is, the right wing president who's

01:04:10.900 supposed to be a cultural warrior troglodyte, according to his enemies, would adopt their

01:04:15.200 song as his anthem, make a dance craze around it, and they'd be performing at his inaugural

01:04:22.040 events.

01:04:23.860 Who would have thunk it?

01:04:25.400 It's amazing.

01:04:27.280 Spectacular.

01:04:27.840 We, we saw them at, uh, we went to Charlie, uh, Kirk's turning points, uh, ball on Sunday

01:04:33.820 night, pre inauguration, which was very fun.

01:04:36.420 Met so many great people there.

01:04:38.060 Absolutely loved them.

01:04:39.000 And, uh, the YMCA was performed by the village people.

01:04:42.100 And it was, I can't believe like how much energy those guys put into the performance.

01:04:48.220 You know, it's like they lean in.

01:04:51.800 And I mean, especially the guy who plays the, the native American character with a full headdress,

01:04:56.260 you know, and what I didn't understand when I was watching him is that, you know, that

01:04:59.960 iconic now iconic photo, or he's like leaning back and president Trump is laughing is that

01:05:05.220 actually he was doing a double Nazi salute.

01:05:07.620 And really we never should have celebrated that.

01:05:10.060 It wasn't just the one, it was two, two Nazi salutes, just like Elon Musk.

01:05:16.100 Is this the stupidest controversy you've seen in a while?

01:05:19.240 Like I'll show the audience what he did.

01:05:21.900 It's a lie that the left is telling about him.

01:05:24.040 He said something really sweet to the Capital One arena and these just crazy loons tried

01:05:30.160 to turn him into a Nazi because of it.

01:05:33.340 Here it is.

01:05:34.860 Some, some elections are, you know, important, some are not, but, but this one, this one,

01:05:40.780 this one really matters.

01:05:45.260 And I just want to say thank you for making it happen.

01:05:48.820 Thank you.

01:05:56.420 My heart goes out to you.

01:05:59.520 It is thanks to you that the future of civilization is assured.

01:06:06.040 Thanks to you.

01:06:06.820 Well, that has the left all a Twitter.

01:06:12.700 Hold on.

01:06:13.220 I want to get, I want to get some of the examples here.

01:06:15.880 Here is.

01:06:16.660 Okay.

01:06:18.440 So CNN first weighed in trying to make this a thing.

01:06:21.680 Let's play that.

01:06:23.980 He is a hero to them.

01:06:25.060 I just want to look at that salute that he gave again.

01:06:27.520 Just if anybody missed it, we'll just show it again.

01:06:30.620 He's just wrapped up here.

01:06:31.800 You can hear the.

01:06:34.860 There.

01:06:35.220 All right.

01:06:39.860 So we just, we just showed that we just showed that.

01:06:43.460 Right.

01:06:44.000 It's worth it.

01:06:44.780 It was quick.

01:06:45.660 I think our viewers are smart and they can take a look at that, but it certainly was.

01:06:50.560 It's not something that you typically see at American political rallies.

01:06:53.700 Put it that way.

01:06:54.100 No, no, it was not something that you usually would see.

01:06:57.080 Oh my God.

01:07:00.340 Okay.

01:07:01.420 So of course they try to make it a thing.

01:07:03.260 Twitter starts going nuts to the point where the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League, which is

01:07:09.660 very, I'm sorry.

01:07:11.400 They're like the Southern Poverty Law Center.

01:07:14.520 They just, I don't put any weight in what these guys say anymore.

01:07:19.620 But they, even they, they're typically repeating the leftist line.

01:07:25.600 Even they came out and defended Elon leading to AOC's tweet as follows in response to the

01:07:32.380 ADL.

01:07:32.900 Just to be clear, you are defending a Heil Hitler salute that was performed and repeated

01:07:37.980 for emphasis and clarity.

01:07:39.720 People can officially stop listening to you as any sort of reputable source of information

01:07:43.380 now.

01:07:43.920 Well, we're kind of on the same page there.

01:07:45.980 You work for them.

01:07:47.340 Thank you for making that crystal clear to all.

01:07:50.080 And you had others like Jerry Nadler trying to, you know, just espouse the seriousness

01:07:55.780 of this moment, how deeply disappointing it was, Rich.

01:07:59.060 They're actually trying to run with this.

01:08:02.160 Yeah.

01:08:02.380 So what's the theory?

01:08:03.660 This libertarian American entrepreneur is a secret Nazi.

01:08:07.640 So he accidentally did a Nazi salute when he was just being very emphatic or that he's just

01:08:14.140 trying to make this a thing.

01:08:15.100 He's just openly a Nazi.

01:08:17.020 What is it?

01:08:17.380 I mean, both are completely absurd.

01:08:20.580 It's poisonous.

01:08:22.160 It's beneath contempt.

01:08:23.800 So by the way, he was just showing enthusiasm.

01:08:26.420 And that's been one of the amazing things about Elon since he entered that rally in Pennsylvania

01:08:32.160 where he exposed his midriff jumping into the air like, I know, Kool-Aid commercial or something.

01:08:38.020 Just how into this he is.

01:08:40.000 I mean, he's a grown man.

01:08:41.160 He's extremely accomplished, right?

01:08:43.600 He's founded several companies that any one of them would be world historical on their

01:08:47.940 own.

01:08:48.340 He's done multiples and there might be more to come.

01:08:51.280 And he's just so joyful and ecstatic about this election and this political phenomenon.

01:08:58.980 It's amazing to see.

01:09:00.060 He's touching his heart and then hand out to the audience while he's saying, I give my heart to you.

01:09:11.100 And still we get, here's the Nadler tweet.

01:09:13.040 I never imagined we would see the day when what appears to be a Heil Hitler salute would be made

01:09:19.000 behind the presidential seal.

01:09:20.720 This abhorrent gesture has no place in our society and belongs in the darkest chapters of human history.

01:09:27.360 I urge all my colleagues to unite in condemning this hateful gesture for what it is, anti-Semitism.

01:09:35.100 By Elon Musk, same man who toured Auschwitz recently, who went over to Israel with Ben Shapiro to see

01:09:43.980 firsthand what Hamas did to the suffering Israelis.

01:09:48.000 Like that's, that's who is an anti-Semite now, because while saying, I give my heart to you,

01:09:53.200 he made that gesture.

01:09:54.900 Yeah.

01:09:55.320 So Chris Murphy asked about it this morning in Elise Stefanik's hearing.

01:10:00.560 Bill Kristol is now riffing on it.

01:10:05.920 You know, it, it's an amazing thing.

01:10:08.120 As Rich says, because I don't know what the idea is supposed to be here.

01:10:12.000 So let's assume that it's a Nazi salute.

01:10:14.460 So why?

01:10:16.280 Why, why, why would he do that?

01:10:18.020 Well, what is the aim?

01:10:19.180 To signal on CNN that they are what?

01:10:26.980 I mean, it's a silly idea.

01:10:28.540 It's unfortunately an indicator that the press has not learned anything.

01:10:35.560 And that's what surprised me about it.

01:10:37.180 I would have thought after this election that there would have been more than two hours between

01:10:41.880 the inauguration of Donald Trump and the return to that sort of silliness.

01:10:46.100 But there weren't.

01:10:47.460 This came straight back.

01:10:49.340 This is now the conversation piece for a particular sort of resistance type.

01:10:54.940 And now you have a second day of it from people who really should have spent the time and thought

01:11:02.800 whether or not they wanted to jump on this bandwagon.

01:11:05.480 And the fact that Chris Murphy, one day later, in a controlled setting, like the United States Senate,

01:11:13.200 chose to bring this up, to ask Elise Stefanik about it, on the record, in a hearing that is supposed to be about her nomination,

01:11:24.720 suggests to me that they are essentially irredeemable.

01:11:27.880 That the people who have got themselves into this mindset cannot get out of it.

01:11:32.840 I do not mean people who dislike or criticize Donald Trump.

01:11:37.180 I mean the people who have never been able to distinguish between Trump as he actually exists,

01:11:43.480 and Trump as they have projected him from the beginning, as this Hitler-esque figure.

01:11:51.700 Yeah, I mean to borrow from what Rich just said about YMCA, it is extremely surprising that that song went from what it was in 1977 to what it is now.

01:12:01.840 It's not 100% surprising that Donald Trump would pick it up though, because he's the campest president we've ever had.

01:12:07.940 He is camp.

01:12:08.760 Donald Trump is a camp theater kid.

01:12:12.220 He is not Adolf Hitler.

01:12:13.880 There are many, many things to criticize him for.

01:12:16.540 I do so.

01:12:17.340 I've done so on this show.

01:12:18.440 I will continue to do so.

01:12:19.900 But the idea that he and Elon Musk are secret Nazis, that they're trying to send secret...

01:12:25.400 I mean, you know, there was this weird movement that coalesced on the right around Trump at the end of his first term,

01:12:31.720 and then especially in the aftermath of the election, QAnon.

01:12:35.860 It was stupid conspiracy theory, bizarre internet phenomenon.

01:12:40.500 Well, the left has their own version, which others call BlueAnon.

01:12:45.380 I think David Harsany wrote a book about this.

01:12:47.760 This is BlueAnon.

01:12:49.080 I mean, this is lunacy conspiracy theories, except that instead of being in the fringes of the internet reported on in the press,

01:12:57.060 it's representatives of people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Chris Murphy and Bill Kristol and the anchors at CNN.

01:13:03.540 And they are not going to do very well over the next four years if this is their habit still.

01:13:09.060 They're not...

01:13:10.520 I've said before, they're not changing.

01:13:12.620 I don't expect change.

01:13:14.020 They're going to go right back to their Trump derangement syndrome and further decrease and erode their credibility.

01:13:19.900 Here, we did find the Bill Kristol tweet saying to Caroline Levitt, who's the new press secretary,

01:13:26.880 Elon Musk has an office in the White House.

01:13:29.740 Does the president support his salute yesterday?

01:13:32.540 In quotes.

01:13:33.460 Has anyone at the White House asked Musk what he meant by it or suggested he clarify what he meant?

01:13:39.380 Is it fine if other White House staffers offer such salutes?

01:13:42.520 And Elon just tweeted out, not in response to Kristol, but just in general,

01:13:46.860 frankly, they need better tricks, better dirty tricks.

01:13:50.380 The everyone is Hitler attack is so tired.

01:13:53.620 Rich, how true is that?

01:13:55.180 We just saw Hitler sit down with Barack Obama and they were kidding each other like old college chums.

01:14:00.580 Hitler glad-handed with Bill Clinton.

01:14:02.860 Hitler...

01:14:03.260 I mean, they just tried to pull this unsuccessfully with Trump.

01:14:07.120 And no sooner does he get sworn in than they try it with Elon.

01:14:12.520 Yeah, it's tired.

01:14:15.800 It was tired 50 years ago.

01:14:18.880 They always use this.

01:14:21.840 And the honorable thing to do is to say, I don't like Elon Musk.

01:14:26.620 And I think he's run his platform in a disgraceful way.

01:14:30.020 And he shouldn't be on board with this crude and reactionary president.

01:14:36.560 But he didn't do a Hitler salute, right?

01:14:39.180 That's the honorable way to make their case.

01:14:42.520 But they can't.

01:14:43.540 And they're stuck in this mode of thinking where some of them believe it, as we were talking about earlier, because they're in an information bubble.

01:14:51.040 And some of them just think it works.

01:14:53.120 And it doesn't.

01:14:54.380 Not sure it ever did, but it certainly doesn't now.

01:14:56.540 That's an interesting question.

01:14:58.860 Like, who really believes?

01:15:02.100 Does Bill Kristol really believe that Elon did a Heil Hitler salute?

01:15:07.700 Or does he just see an opportunity to stir up hatred against an administration that he hates and tried very hard to defeat?

01:15:15.480 I don't know.

01:15:16.220 I do think that you can get so crazed with TDS that you can no longer be a fair arbiter or an honest broker of information.

01:15:24.420 That's the distinction I was trying to make about NR, which you don't hate Trump, but you guys, you know, Charlie's not a huge Trump fan, I think it's fair to say.

01:15:32.020 But such a fair journalist commentator, you know, would never play fast and loose with the facts just to hurt Trump.

01:15:38.960 That's, you're still, you're an honest broker.

01:15:41.680 Bill Kristol, I don't know.

01:15:43.520 He's so crazy, it almost doesn't matter.

01:15:46.280 Here's Rachel Maddow with her, like, typical sanctimonious, like, I'm sorry to have to bring you this, but here's the latest of these terrible people.

01:15:57.700 This, this is what, this is what happened with these disgusting opponents.

01:16:01.600 Watch, here she is.

01:16:02.540 This is him today, twice, throwing something that looks like what is politely called the Roman salute.

01:16:10.020 And maybe this is not what he meant when he did it.

01:16:13.060 Who among us knows what is in the hearts of men?

01:16:15.520 But the Roman salute is a thing.

01:16:18.060 And that is what it looks like Elon Musk was doing, which added a nice blood-curdling chill to the day for many people today.

01:16:26.460 Go ahead.

01:16:27.900 He does it twice.

01:16:30.280 And again, maybe that's not what he meant.

01:16:32.540 Maybe he doesn't know what that is.

01:16:35.940 That happened today.

01:16:38.900 That happened today.

01:16:40.100 Who among us knows what's in the hearts of men?

01:16:43.680 Who among us does know, Rachel?

01:16:45.380 I, like, she, maybe she should ask Elizabeth Warren.

01:16:48.900 Here she was at her DNC 2016 speech.

01:16:53.240 Thank you, Massachusetts, for the great honor of serving as your senator.

01:16:58.920 Thank you.

01:16:59.220 There's an arm up.

01:17:00.260 Oh, look it is.

01:17:01.100 She put the palm down.

01:17:02.540 The palm is down.

01:17:05.460 Who among us knows what's in the hearts of women?

01:17:08.900 Rich Lowry.

01:17:09.380 Yeah.

01:17:10.620 So any politician or anyone else who does kind of an extended wave when you're sticking your arm up, if you happen, as Elizabeth Warren did there, to turn your palm down, you can be accused of a Roman salute.

01:17:24.720 At least Rachel Maddow did say, I don't know whether this is what he meant, but she still says, in effect, that's what he meant or insinuates it.

01:17:33.480 And by the way, MSNBC, between Rachel Maddow and Joy Reid has employed two of America's most prominent conspiracy theorists over the last several years.

01:17:44.300 And these are the people who are, they claim to say, they claim to be all about the facts and hate election denialism and conspiracy theories, but that's what they serve up in huge heaping servings every night in primetime.

01:17:59.300 Now, Rachel, for some reason, doesn't have to do the show most of the time, but Joy Reid does does more than enough herself.

01:18:06.300 OK, so it's not just Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris.

01:18:13.420 This is her South Carolina Democratic Party event in September of 2024.

01:18:16.660 Watch.

01:18:18.440 That's back before Roe v.

01:18:20.260 Wade was enacted because we're not going back.

01:18:23.640 We're not going back.

01:18:25.300 Oh, there it is.

01:18:26.740 Palm down.

01:18:27.580 Nazi salute.

01:18:28.580 And then you've got lives of tick tock that put together a screen grab of a bunch of Democrats doing the the Roman salute.

01:18:37.700 Or are they?

01:18:38.620 I mean, how can we know what's in the hearts of men and women?

01:18:42.620 What can we put on the board?

01:18:43.860 Hold on.

01:18:44.160 We'll see it in one second.

01:18:45.760 Here we go.

01:18:46.620 Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama are the president of the United States.

01:18:51.140 Is that Kamala at the bottom?

01:18:52.380 My eyes can't quite see.

01:18:54.400 Yes, that's Kamala.

01:18:55.220 Three top Democrats, a Harris, a Clinton and an Obama, all with the Roman salute, which, by the way, Rachel Maddow did not once but twice on her show and imitating what what what Elon allegedly did.

01:19:08.420 And she did it wrong.

01:19:09.140 She didn't do what Elon did, touching his heart.

01:19:11.260 And, you know, she did an actual Heil Hitler situation thinking that's fine.

01:19:16.260 OK, misrepresentative.

01:19:18.000 And by the way, CNN should be really careful because they just had to pay five million dollars plus in a settlement of a defamation lawsuit that they just found were found liable in a jury trial for.

01:19:29.140 So you should really be careful about throwing around the Heil Hitler accusations.

01:19:33.540 But they won't be just for good measure.

01:19:35.460 Before we close the segment out here is Democratic senator from Connecticut.

01:19:38.640 He's daring me.

01:19:39.720 He's daring me.

01:19:40.620 I don't actually want to run for Senate.

01:19:42.060 I love my current job, but he's daring me to take his seat.

01:19:45.140 Here he goes.

01:19:47.040 What do you think of Elon Musk, perhaps the president's most visible advisor, doing two Heil Hitler salutes last night at the president's televised rally?

01:19:59.560 No, Elon Musk did not do those salutes.

01:20:02.360 I was not at the rally, but I can tell you I've been at many rallies with Elon Musk, who loves to cheer when President Trump says we need to send our U.S. space program to Mars.

01:20:13.000 Elon Musk is a visionary.

01:20:14.380 I'm looking forward to his work in Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, and look forward to looking how we can be more efficient and effective.

01:20:23.080 But that is simply not the case.

01:20:25.980 And to say so is the American people are smart.

01:20:28.780 They see through it.

01:20:29.540 They support Elon Musk.

01:20:30.860 She's a crusher.

01:20:33.040 She's so great.

01:20:34.200 I love her.

01:20:35.540 And by the way, he is so lucky that there is a privilege for what you say in the conduct of your legislative abilities and performance, because that is defamation.

01:20:43.720 He said flat out that he did two Heil Hitler salutes, which he did not.

01:20:47.480 So if he said that not inside the Senate building, he would be sued for defamation.

01:20:52.360 And by the way, there was who was it?

01:20:56.380 Oh, it was.

01:20:58.400 It was the other it was Dick Blumenthal of Connecticut, the other Democratic senator from Connecticut, I believe.

01:21:03.720 I'm trying to think it was either him or Tim Kaine.

01:21:05.880 It was Tim Kaine who said the other day that Pete Hegseth, that there was a long history of Pete Hegseth's problems with women and alcohol and stated it as an affirmative fact, as opposed to the anonymous reports, which have been unsubstantiated.

01:21:23.900 Same thing.

01:21:24.400 Now, I actually went and did some homework on it to figure out whether you could sue a senator for a tweet.

01:21:31.120 And the answer is maybe it's not as clear as when they do it in their capacity on Capitol Hill.

01:21:37.700 There is some case law saying even when they're off Capitol Hill, if the tweet is in support of the legislative agenda, they have some protection, but it's less clear.

01:21:45.920 So the senators ought to be very careful about pushing this nonsense around, because who among us really knows what's in someone's heart, guys?

01:21:56.380 You know, I don't know.

01:21:57.300 I think the thing is, we talked about this a bit on the show yesterday.

01:22:01.380 We won a whole election, so we don't have to do this nonsense anymore.

01:22:04.040 We're done.

01:22:04.580 The American people are done.

01:22:05.840 We're very, very over the Hitler, the everyone's a closet racist.

01:22:10.760 Everyone's a closet sexist.

01:22:12.300 And, like, it's almost become just kind of sad now.

01:22:16.320 You know, I don't think Elon Musk sweated one bead of sweat over this.

01:22:22.300 I don't think most people would at this point anymore, Charlie.

01:22:25.340 I just feel like we're over it, and the American people are over it, and they know that.

01:22:31.560 Yeah, and you know why that is a big deal?

01:22:34.200 Well, it's not because we're talking about it or because it's facile or even because it's defamatory, although all those three things are true.

01:22:44.060 It's because I assume that at some point in the future, the American left wants to win again and advance its agenda.

01:22:51.820 And this is just not the way to do it.

01:22:54.840 And not just because there's been a vibe shift, as people keep saying, perhaps there has, but because this distracts from criticisms that might be made of Donald Trump and his agenda that could be persuasive to Americans, that will at least be necessary for the Democrats to get off the map.

01:23:18.460 And I don't think they've quite worked that one out, that the little bubble that they live in is not just silly, but it's really hurting them and their ability to project politically.

01:23:31.680 I mean, Chris Murphy is supposed to be exercising his duty as a senator to evaluate whether or not Elise Stefanik deserves his vote.

01:23:40.460 Now, of course, we all know for various partisan reasons that he's going to vote against her.

01:23:45.240 But if those comments are aired on television or if they make it down into the newspapers of the general public, they would do nothing.

01:23:57.120 You really think there are people out there who are looking at the new administration and wondering if the secret Nazis who are persuadable that Elon Musk deliberately did a Roman salute?

01:24:08.460 It's nonsense.

01:24:08.980 But there are things that both because we have a divided country, people have different ideological views, and because Trump will make mistakes and do things that are illegal or a bad idea that could be pushed out into the voters and be useful to the Democrats.

01:24:26.960 That's not one of them.

01:24:27.760 But it's crowding it out today.

01:24:29.460 That's what they've decided to do today.

01:24:31.500 Right in the middle of a bunch of Senate hearings, right in the middle of a bunch of executive orders, many of which really represent profound policy change, and right in the middle of a bunch of pardons that probably, although I agree with Rich that they're not going to have a huge effect politically, are probably not that popular.

01:24:47.780 So what are they talking about?

01:24:49.120 They're talking about whether or not Elon Musk did a Nazi salute, which nobody thinks he did and really makes you sound very stupid if you say aloud.

01:24:57.400 And I just find that baffling.

01:24:58.600 They don't realize the fever broke.

01:25:03.320 America woke up from its crazy ass 10 years that went extra crazy.

01:25:10.200 It's supercharged crazy post-George Floyd, and we're done.

01:25:14.140 We're over it.

01:25:15.580 Get on board with reverting to being normal Americans who don't cast these kinds of aspersions on their fellow citizens at every comment or get left behind.

01:25:27.380 It's up to them.

01:25:29.400 All right, we're going to take a quick break.

01:25:30.660 When we come back, we've got to talk about what Trump did in the Oval Office last night and that amazing exchange with Peter Doocy, which is just stunning and really fun to watch.

01:25:40.900 Okay, stand by.

01:25:41.620 Rich and Charlie stick with us.

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01:27:19.960 Canada Life.

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01:27:22.840 Advice.

01:27:27.000 Okay, so while we've been talking, something extraordinary happened.

01:27:31.400 Trump went to the National Prayer Service.

01:27:33.320 Hold on, let me get this up.

01:27:34.260 My team just texted it to me.

01:27:35.940 He goes to the National Prayer Service in Washington, D.C.

01:27:38.240 He's there with, I think, the First Lady.

01:27:40.500 I saw J.D. Vance.

01:27:41.340 And this Bishop of Washington, it's a woman in the Episcopal Church, Marianne Edgar Buddy,

01:27:50.680 decides to take the opportunity with the newly sworn in president to lecture him on, I believe, LGBTQ rights

01:27:59.840 and how he really needs to soften, and illegal immigrants.

01:28:04.860 Listen to this woman.

01:28:05.580 In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now.

01:28:18.800 There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children, some who fear for their lives.

01:28:25.520 And the people, the people who pick our crops and clean our office buildings,

01:28:31.440 who labor in poultry farms and meatpacking plants, who wash the dishes after we eat in restaurants

01:28:37.660 and work the night shifts in hospitals.

01:28:39.780 They may not be citizens or have the proper documentation.

01:28:45.160 But the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals.

01:28:51.660 Oh, my God.

01:28:52.900 Trump, just at the end there, Trump looks off to the side and goes, you can see him like, all right.

01:28:58.300 Just FYI, this woman, according to the Daily Mail, has a long history of criticizing Trump in his first term,

01:29:04.680 especially after he stood next to the Episcopal Church holding the Bible after clearing protesters out of Lafayette Square.

01:29:10.420 In an interview with CBS the next morning, Buddy slammed Trump's actions, calling them antithetical to the teachings of Jesus

01:29:15.660 and everything that we stand for as a church.

01:29:17.900 She also condemned Trump while attending an outdoor Black Lives Matter protest in 2020,

01:29:22.140 wearing a mask during the coronavirus pandemic.

01:29:24.280 Quote, I've given up speaking to President Trump.

01:29:26.720 We need to replace President Trump.

01:29:28.600 I'm sorry, but who told President Trump he should go here?

01:29:30.900 This is a failure of the team.

01:29:33.420 With all due respect, he should not have been placed in the position of having to sit there

01:29:36.960 and be lectured to by this woman who clearly hates him, Rich.

01:29:40.960 Peak Episcopalian right there.

01:29:43.480 I hate to say that's an Episcopalian sermon.

01:29:47.380 I'm sorry, but you're right.

01:29:49.800 Inveying against Republican policy.

01:29:52.200 I imagine she thinks she's speaking truth to power, but that's not the time or the place.

01:29:59.380 And it's just bizarre to hear a Christian minister or bishop going on about gay rights like that.

01:30:09.900 But again, that's that's that's transgender children, which is not a thing.

01:30:13.700 That is a made up thing.

01:30:15.160 Those are kids who are dealing with most likely their parents' mental illness,

01:30:19.740 but in some cases their own societal struggles who need therapy from someone who's objective

01:30:24.960 and not trying to push them out of their biological sex, which is not possible.

01:30:30.440 Charles, I can't believe that.

01:30:31.560 I mean, I can believe it, but it's just so annoying.

01:30:33.300 And to Rich's point, I told my audience like a year or so ago, less than I've been going through

01:30:38.940 this process to try to get my first marriage annulled in the Catholic Church.

01:30:42.300 And it created a bit of a crisis of faith for me because, you know, you got to deal with

01:30:46.140 the middleman.

01:30:46.700 And why am I dealing with the middleman?

01:30:47.800 And why do the middleman have all the say over me and my relationship with God?

01:30:51.380 And it led me to have a Woody Allen-esque.

01:30:55.180 It's a good insight.

01:30:56.100 Is that what you said?

01:30:56.660 It's a very, very Protestant insight.

01:30:59.180 Yeah, it is a Protestant.

01:31:00.420 So it led me to go on like that journey.

01:31:02.600 I think I can't remember which movie it was of Woody Allen's where he goes and he tries

01:31:05.460 out all these religions.

01:31:06.320 But I did kind of dip a toe in Episcopalian to see if I could feel better when I was over

01:31:12.360 there.

01:31:12.940 It was a hard no.

01:31:13.760 The one service I showed up for was a female pastor and it was all about transgender children

01:31:22.400 and how we have to accept transgenderism and we have to be great with transgender kids.

01:31:28.340 It was like, I'm out.

01:31:29.760 I left mid-sermon.

01:31:32.260 And sure enough, how did he get put in this position?

01:31:34.260 All right.

01:31:35.960 So when Trump was sworn in yesterday, I said to my wife, I said, we're now going to get

01:31:43.600 a whole litany of really annoying people saying annoying things that they didn't during the

01:31:49.880 Biden years.

01:31:50.520 And she said, well, what sort of thing are you thinking of?

01:31:52.840 And I said, I don't know.

01:31:54.120 But every day, last Trump administration, there was something that was profoundly stupid

01:31:59.740 or annoying that someone said.

01:32:02.000 And then within 24 hours, we've got perfect examples of this that I couldn't have remembered

01:32:06.820 or imagined.

01:32:07.540 But Elon Musk is a Nazi doing a Nazi salute.

01:32:10.780 And he's lectured in a church service by a female Episcopalian about transgender children.

01:32:18.200 That is exactly what happens when Trump is president.

01:32:20.880 This is a free floating thought.

01:32:22.360 Why is it that people on the left who think that they are the great friends of illegal immigrants

01:32:29.900 can only talk about them like that?

01:32:32.940 They only ever talk about them as people who do menial tasks.

01:32:37.900 They say they pick things and clean things.

01:32:41.760 And that's the only thing that seems to come to mind as a defense.

01:32:46.420 You know, I don't agree with illegal immigration.

01:32:49.280 I want us to crack down on it very, very strongly.

01:32:53.740 But I would feel a bit weird if I talked about other people like that.

01:32:57.440 Like that was their only role in the world was-

01:33:00.440 Who's going to do my nails if you get rid of all the illegals?

01:33:03.960 That's not the argument.

01:33:05.560 I mean, that's such a dispiriting argument.

01:33:10.220 The argument is they're people, but they came into the country illegally and they shouldn't.

01:33:14.660 And we have control over our borders and the people who live here want to get some say

01:33:19.240 over who joins them.

01:33:20.260 That's the argument for having borders, that borders make a nation.

01:33:23.580 The argument is not, well, who's going to do all the menial work?

01:33:27.360 But even a priest or a bishop or whatever she is said that.

01:33:31.340 It's so weird to me.

01:33:32.520 They need to work on that.

01:33:32.920 By the way, it's so false.

01:33:34.400 It's like, you're so worried about the children.

01:33:37.040 Where are you in standing up for girls in sports?

01:33:39.660 Which the vast majority of the American population wants to do now.

01:33:43.420 It was President Trump who signed that EO protecting them yesterday.

01:33:47.360 It's President Trump who will restore young men's due process rights on college campuses.

01:33:51.520 What about those children?

01:33:53.160 Does she care about them?

01:33:54.440 Does she care about the young girls who are tied to rape trees along the southern border

01:33:57.940 by these gangs who bring people across?

01:34:00.480 Is that because cracking down at the border will save them?

01:34:03.100 But I didn't hear that in her, quote, sermon.

01:34:05.420 That was the least godly little bit of advice I've heard in a while.

01:34:08.480 And I'm in news, so it's saying something.

01:34:11.140 All right, we've got to get to Peter Doocy.

01:34:14.280 He goes to the Oval Office when Trump is just like, you know, freestyling and signing executive

01:34:20.020 orders and taking questions from the press and listen to this exchange in SOT 4.

01:34:26.560 President Trump, did President Biden leave you a letter?

01:34:30.660 He may have.

01:34:34.460 Don't they leave it in the desk?

01:34:36.700 I don't know.

01:34:38.480 Oh.

01:34:41.140 Thank you, Peter.

01:34:42.160 It could have been years before we found it.

01:34:45.500 Wow.

01:34:46.280 Thank you.

01:34:47.260 Can you read that on the outside?

01:34:49.400 Maybe we should all read it together.

01:34:51.060 Let's read it.

01:34:52.060 Well, maybe I'll read it first and then make that determination.

01:34:54.840 That sounds great.

01:34:56.720 Peter, thank you very much.

01:34:58.140 I may not have seen this for months.

01:34:59.680 How are you talking about it tomorrow?

01:35:01.280 The unification of our country.

01:35:06.740 You know, I didn't know that he gave a pardon to his family because he did it during my speech.

01:35:14.640 He didn't tell you this in the letter?

01:35:16.500 No, he didn't tell me.

01:35:17.640 No, no.

01:35:19.680 You know what's so interesting about that, Rich, is it does show that Trump, it's such a great example of how he breaks the norms, you know, part one of that exchange.

01:35:28.060 But how he knows where to draw the line.

01:35:30.840 He did not actually read the letter on camera to Peter Ducey.

01:35:34.240 And also when asked what they talked about privately earlier in the day, he went generic.

01:35:41.580 We talked about unification.

01:35:42.840 He respected the relationship and the confidentiality, even though he was very irritated about those pardons and was saying, I didn't know he did that.

01:35:51.280 Yeah.

01:35:51.720 He's just he's so funny.

01:35:53.720 He's so entertaining and spontaneously, too.

01:35:56.840 Right.

01:35:57.040 You get some politicians who can say funny lines because someone writes them for for him or her and then he or she can read them.

01:36:04.760 This is a guy just sitting there.

01:36:05.980 And the way he reacts, it could have been lost for years.

01:36:09.140 It could have taken us years, Peter, to find it.

01:36:11.120 It's hilarious.

01:36:11.980 Right.

01:36:12.440 And he's just coming up with that spontaneously.

01:36:15.680 And again, as we were talking about earlier, just the contrast with Joe Biden, just this total openness, just hanging out with the reporters, signing executive orders.

01:36:24.760 And and making it work for him is just it's a total contrast to what we've seen in the last four years where Biden had to be controlled and his underlying condition had to be hidden.

01:36:36.360 Completely.

01:36:37.600 I've got to ask you this off topic, but in the news, Vivek Ramaswamy is the first victim of Doge, the department he was co-heading with Elon.

01:36:47.760 Elon, they're so good at creating government efficiencies, they got rid of the second partner in charge of finding them.

01:36:55.300 He's officially out now, Charlie, and Politico reporting that it was because he he got on people's nerves everywhere in Mar-a-Lago, they say, and burned bridges.

01:37:06.900 That's what they said. They burned a bunch of bridges and he finally burned Elon.

01:37:10.340 And it doesn't seem to be wrong because now it's appeared in The Washington Post and Politico and elsewhere, CBS, that Elon had enough of Vivek.

01:37:19.220 And so they turfed him and they're citing, you know, Trump allies with this and nobody's pushing back and nobody's saying it's fake news.

01:37:26.560 So he's out.

01:37:28.480 Are you surprised?

01:37:29.540 And what do you make of it?

01:37:30.360 Yeah, I mean, as you know, Megan, I'm a huge fan of Vivek's and I can't imagine a circumstance in which he would get on somebody's nerves or make them want to exile him to the governorship of Ohio, which seems to be his next aspiration.

01:37:47.420 I look, I wrote that piece about three years ago.

01:37:53.380 I stand by it.

01:37:54.620 He still comes across like that.

01:37:57.420 But the only thing I would add is I do wonder if there was a more substantive side to it.

01:38:03.100 I do wonder if he perhaps had different ideas about the administration than Trump or than Elon.

01:38:10.840 It's a very broad coalition.

01:38:13.020 It's a coalition that has managed to bring in Republicans across the spectrum, but also Robert F.

01:38:20.060 Kennedy Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard and others.

01:38:23.240 And Vivek has a lot of ideas of his own.

01:38:26.020 Some of them are good.

01:38:27.760 And I wonder whether he ever played his hand in advancing them.

01:38:32.140 I mean, this is a problem you have, an inevitable problem, when you put lots of people who've been very successful and who are very intelligent together.

01:38:42.840 And Vivek is a very intelligent man, like Elon Musk is.

01:38:46.120 And, you know, how many days do you think it would take for a room filled with Donald Trump, Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk before they started to get irritated with each other?

01:38:57.360 I mean, it's almost inevitable.

01:38:59.800 Big personalities in there.

01:39:01.640 I mean, I think Vivek will see whether he will be attractive to the people of Ohio as their next potential governor.

01:39:07.900 It's the same group that elected Mike DeWine, who refused to appoint Vivek to J.D. Vance's Senate seat.

01:39:16.020 But it's a very red state now.

01:39:17.800 It's very pro-MAGA.

01:39:19.120 But how hard will Trump campaign for him?

01:39:22.060 I don't I'm not sure if these reports are true.

01:39:24.720 Trump was very nice to him at the inauguration.

01:39:26.940 He had a good seat in there, but it does appear that there's been some sort of a fracture between Vivek and Elon and Elon is now running Doge without Vivek.

01:39:37.400 They did report that the last straw was reportedly that long tweet storm or tweet.

01:39:43.480 That's just a long tweet that he pushed out a couple of weeks ago talking about how, yeah, mediocrity in the American culture and how we need less, less like prom kings and football stars and more.

01:39:55.160 Yeah.

01:39:56.360 Mathletes, which I don't know.

01:40:01.500 I like Vivek, but no, wrong.

01:40:03.260 And it didn't go over well with Cora Maga either, which doesn't like that kind of commentary.

01:40:08.460 It's more nuanced than that.

01:40:09.820 I'm not being fair to Vivek, but in any event, this was reportedly the straw that broke the camel's back.

01:40:15.840 We'll see.

01:40:16.460 I mean, I like I like the I like the efficiencies that they're finding.

01:40:20.380 And I guess we'll find out together how many people go.

01:40:23.240 Trump's already firing people by tweet, like explicitly saying you're fired.

01:40:28.220 Hold all of us from the last administration.

01:40:30.020 And it's joyful to watch.

01:40:32.080 All of it is joyful to watch.

01:40:33.820 Guys, thank you.

01:40:34.820 Thank you both.

01:40:35.640 Thank you.

01:40:36.720 They delivered just like I knew they would.

01:40:38.680 I such smart, thoughtful guys, aren't they?

01:40:41.080 And I really like their commentary on the hat.

01:40:43.640 I thought that was our highlight today.

01:40:46.760 Here's what we're going to do.

01:40:47.840 I am going to update a story I mentioned in my comments at the Trump rally on Sunday.

01:40:55.180 Um, I got an extraordinary response from someone I mentioned, and you'll hear it in just a minute.

01:41:03.860 Don't go away.

01:41:04.540 And we're back tomorrow with Nicole Shanahan.

01:41:07.160 Your business doesn't move in a straight line.

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01:41:37.480 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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01:42:41.100 Before we go, an update on a woman I mentioned during my remarks at the Trump rally the day before his inauguration this past Sunday.

01:42:50.240 Her name is Jody Shaw.

01:42:52.140 And I mention her for a reason, because in this whole cultural war we've been engaged in, you know, the left trying to force racist DEI policies on us at the federal government level, at the corporate level, in our universities, in the K-12 system.

01:43:09.460 It's just everywhere.

01:43:10.760 We've been winning, but it's thanks to soldiers, citizen soldiers, if you will, like Jody Shaw, who in many cases before the loudmouths among us, found the temerity to stand up and say, no, and to say, stop this.

01:43:29.760 So Jody Shaw worked in an administrative capacity at Smith College, and she was an alum of Smith, and one day, she didn't have a powerful position there, but one day she just reached the breaking point with the over the, I mean, Smith is as leftist as they come.

01:43:48.340 Not only is it, you know, an elite liberal institution, it's reportedly, I think, 50% lesbian.

01:43:54.040 And so this is an institution that supposedly prides itself on tolerance and so on.

01:43:59.540 But as you know, like most of those institutions, they get crazy on issues that are so-called woke issues.

01:44:06.660 So that's what was happening at Smith.

01:44:08.260 She one night took to Facebook and in a video went up there and let them have it in very measured but clear terms.

01:44:19.820 Here's a sample.

01:44:20.400 I ask that Smith College stop reducing my personhood to a racial category.

01:44:31.180 Stop telling me what I must think and feel about myself because I feel like you do that a lot.

01:44:37.520 I know you do that a lot, and I need you to stop doing that.

01:44:42.120 Stop presuming to know who I am or what my culture is based upon my skin color because you don't know that.

01:44:48.240 You don't know that about anybody except for yourself.

01:44:53.940 Stop asking me to project stereotypes and assumptions onto others based upon their skin color.

01:44:59.060 So after she did that, it became a national story because it was so compelling.

01:45:05.140 I mean, if you could still go back and be very, very compelled watching this whole thing, you really kind of can't tear yourself away.

01:45:11.580 She says everything so clearly and so well.

01:45:13.500 And after that happened, Smith, she accused them of making her life a living hell there.

01:45:19.280 They investigated her.

01:45:21.140 They came up with pretextual things she allegedly did wrong, which were obviously thin and unsupported, all of which we explored on this show when I had her on very early in our existence as she became sort of a hero to me as somebody else who was speaking out about this.

01:45:37.300 But she was so much like she was brave.

01:45:40.440 I had a show and I had an established sort of, well, bank account and other things.

01:45:44.740 Jodi didn't.

01:45:46.040 She took a great risk in doing this and she needed her job, as she explained to me when she came on.

01:45:53.300 I was I was on board with this, you know, systemic racism is is bad and it's a real problem.

01:45:58.520 And I have white privilege.

01:46:00.360 You know, I had all these voices in my head.

01:46:02.340 I had another voice that was telling me, no, you know, this is this is racial discrimination.

01:46:06.420 But I actually approached my director about a month before and I said, you know, I'm not comfortable discussing my race.

01:46:13.280 And I think I said, I'm not comfortable discussing my race or any other protected characteristic at work.

01:46:19.960 And she said, no problem.

01:46:21.740 Just just say that at the meeting.

01:46:23.840 Just say you're uncomfortable.

01:46:24.880 And so I thought, OK, great.

01:46:26.100 So I went to the meeting and, you know, the the hired facilitators who presumably have authority in this area asked us to discuss and paraphrasing.

01:46:39.180 Please talk about your understanding about your race slash culture as if they are one in the same in the context of your childhood years or your your adolescent years.

01:46:51.160 They there was it was like a three part question.

01:46:53.300 So everyone went around the room and did so.

01:46:56.380 And I was the last person to respond.

01:46:58.460 And I said, I'm not comfortable talking about that at work.

01:47:02.860 And so later in the presentation, one of the facilitators said, I want to be clear that any white person who expresses any discomfort in discussing their race when asked to.

01:47:16.860 I believe she said that you might you might you might feel like you want to comfort them because they seem uncomfortable, but don't because what they're doing is they're displaying white fragility.

01:47:27.180 On October 27th, 2020 was when you released your your video, your first Facebook video calling attention to all of this, the problems there.

01:47:36.360 What made you do that?

01:47:37.500 What was the final straw there?

01:47:39.120 Well, the whole time I'm thinking if, you know, I hope they investigate this complaint thoroughly because clearly nobody was even denying that these things had happened, that I was alleging in the complaint.

01:47:53.080 Uh, and, you know, I hope things can change.

01:47:56.340 But in my mind, I thought that was kind of my, um, the last gasp or the last thing I had that I could pull out, um, because I know the college does not like publicity, especially around anything having to do with race.

01:48:11.240 I read that you're a single mom.

01:48:12.900 Is that true?

01:48:14.420 Yes.

01:48:15.380 I mean, yes, I I'm divorced.

01:48:17.740 Okay, so you've got a child, you've got to support your child, you've got to support yourself.

01:48:23.820 You did not have a tenured position.

01:48:26.600 So if they fire you, what's the plan to pay the bills?

01:48:32.700 Well, I am going to be working in, I'm going to be doing maintenance.

01:48:38.280 I'm going to be painting sheds and removing snow and learning a trade, basically.

01:48:47.020 Why, why, why do this?

01:48:49.180 Why put your neck on the chopping block?

01:48:52.920 And was it worth it?

01:48:55.160 Uh, because I have, I actually have two kids.

01:48:58.180 It's really for them.

01:49:00.060 I don't think I would be doing this if it wasn't for them.

01:49:03.660 Um, because I'm very, very worried, Megan.

01:49:07.480 I'm very worried.

01:49:08.600 I do know a little bit about history.

01:49:13.500 I, I see something forming that seems dangerous to me.

01:49:19.340 Um, and I, I have two white boys, you know, and I want them to know that who they are is

01:49:28.400 more important than, than what they're, what they look like.

01:49:31.340 And I want them to grow up in a world that, you know, rewards their, their hard work and,

01:49:38.780 and not what they look like.

01:49:40.940 Well, she ultimately was forced out of Smith college and they engaged in a litigation.

01:49:47.180 I believed at the last I heard where she was trying to fight back and stand up from her

01:49:52.440 for herself, but she didn't know what was going to happen to her.

01:49:55.840 And that's a unique set of skills and getting bounced out of a college for being not woke

01:50:00.640 doesn't exactly open doors for you at other elite institutions like Smith.

01:50:07.000 So poor Jody was in a very tough position and I've never stopped thinking about her.

01:50:13.300 I've never stopped thinking about Andrew Gutman, who I mentioned in that, in those remarks,

01:50:16.200 Paul Rossi was another one I meant to mention.

01:50:18.600 They, these guys take real risks in being one of the first to stand up to their institutions.

01:50:22.900 He's a guy who was a teacher who stood up saying, stop doing this.

01:50:26.280 I just want to teach math.

01:50:27.440 Stop doing this.

01:50:28.240 Um, and I reached out to Jody before I gave those comments to see if she wanted to

01:50:33.780 just give me an update on her life.

01:50:36.080 I was curious about her.

01:50:37.900 I didn't hear back from her until today.

01:50:40.700 And she wrote me such a beautiful response.

01:50:43.000 I really wanted to share it with you.

01:50:44.300 I texted her and said, may I?

01:50:46.520 And she said it would be okay.

01:50:47.780 So I'm going to read you what she wrote.

01:50:50.020 Here it is.

01:50:51.440 Hi, Megan.

01:50:52.060 Thanks for reaching out.

01:50:53.020 And thanks for the shout out and kind words spoken at the pre-inauguration gathering.

01:50:58.240 I guess I should play those remarks for you before I get to the response.

01:51:02.600 Here's that piece of our story.

01:51:04.380 People like Jody Shaw.

01:51:06.400 You probably don't know that name.

01:51:08.460 But Jody Shaw was an administrative worker at Smith College.

01:51:12.180 She didn't make a lot of money.

01:51:13.160 Single mom, two kids.

01:51:14.300 And in late 2020, early 2021, she had had it with the DEI nonsense at Smith.

01:51:22.460 So she made a Facebook video and she posted it.

01:51:25.840 And little Jody Smith, who is sweet and quiet and not one to shake the tree, said,

01:51:34.400 I don't want to be forced to talk about my race at work anymore.

01:51:40.520 I don't want to be told that I have implicit bias because I'm white.

01:51:46.220 I don't want to have to enforce segregated dorms.

01:51:50.820 Please stop making me do this.

01:51:52.720 And Smith unleashed holy hell on her.

01:51:58.680 Smith, this super tolerant college, okay, made it, she alleged later, untenable for her

01:52:05.700 to stay.

01:52:06.520 She got forced out of her job.

01:52:09.220 And I'm honestly not sure whether Jody's fully recovered.

01:52:12.720 So she got hurt and she got hurt for all of you and for us and for the rest who are at

01:52:20.680 Smith.

01:52:21.560 She's a hero.

01:52:23.840 Okay.

01:52:24.360 So she says, thank you for the shout out and the kind words there.

01:52:27.260 What truly brought a tear to my eye was, I don't know if she has recovered.

01:52:32.940 It was a hard thing to go through, not just Smith, but also the highly public aftermath.

01:52:37.960 I am still trying to rebuild.

01:52:40.000 It's a hard loss.

01:52:41.160 Identity, tribe, sense of self, et cetera.

01:52:45.340 Also still contending with shame and all the other difficult emotions that accompany

01:52:49.600 a highly public humiliation.

01:52:52.800 I think lots of other people feel the same.

01:52:55.440 After he won the election, Trump said, we need to heal.

01:52:59.140 Indeed, we are a wounded and deeply divided populace and healing and reconciliation is in

01:53:05.780 order if we are to be strong again.

01:53:07.320 I am on a spiritual path now, still trying to stitch myself back together.

01:53:14.180 I'm writing a book, an attempt to explain what happened, why I did it, and how I'm trying

01:53:19.480 to move forward.

01:53:20.640 Feel the need to explain it all to the people who suffered the most as a result of my actions,

01:53:26.080 my kids, my siblings, and most of all, myself, just trying to make sense of it still.

01:53:33.340 I am very happy about Trump's victory, as I am sure you are too.

01:53:37.520 I hope you and your family are well.

01:53:40.300 What a beautiful person.

01:53:42.640 What a beautiful woman.

01:53:44.020 The way she says it, right?

01:53:48.060 She's trying to stitch herself back together.

01:53:51.300 That makes so much sense to me.

01:53:53.100 Still trying to stitch myself back together.

01:53:56.800 What these people did to us, our country and individuals like Jodi, was morally wrong.

01:54:05.660 I would go so far as to say it was evil, and it's still ongoing.

01:54:13.120 As I said in those remarks, we've won many battles, and we are winning the war, but it

01:54:17.660 is not over.

01:54:19.820 We haven't won it overall, and that's why you still have this pernicious ideology being

01:54:26.500 shoved down the throats of college students coast to coast.

01:54:29.540 Good luck finding one that's not openly conservative, which is only a handful, that's not doing this.

01:54:34.880 And that's the academy that she came out of.

01:54:39.100 The brutal scars that are left by this sort of indoctrination, these sort of really harmful

01:54:47.860 messages about you being an oppressor who's hurting others just by virtue of your skin color,

01:54:53.880 you being evil and bad just by virtue of the melanin you have, it's hard to recover from

01:55:02.100 just that.

01:55:02.660 Never mind what happens to you if you become the victim of a woke mob, you know, somebody

01:55:08.020 like Brett Weinstein.

01:55:09.100 He's changed forever as a result of what they did to him on Evergreen College, the shouting

01:55:13.860 down, the public humiliation and shaming.

01:55:17.500 Now, did he rise again better than ever?

01:55:20.020 Absolutely.

01:55:21.380 And I certainly hope that's what happens to Jodi Shaw.

01:55:23.460 I would like to submit that the same happened to me and that I've risen, come back better

01:55:30.380 than I was before.

01:55:33.200 But it's not a guarantee.

01:55:35.640 And, you know, I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones.

01:55:38.000 And I don't know if Jodi considers herself one of the lucky ones.

01:55:40.480 It sounds like she's still suffering and it sounds like her kids really had a lot to reconcile

01:55:46.260 with because, you know, they too are probably living in that circle and receive very negative

01:55:52.240 messages about their mom and maybe have their own questions.

01:55:55.880 So I just, as we celebrate Trump's victory, our victory, it's like remembering the fallen, you know,

01:56:05.220 when you actually do win a war.

01:56:06.900 It's like not forgetting the blood and treasure that was spent to get to this point.

01:56:12.980 And honestly, to hold those people accountable, it's not, I know people are like, you know,

01:56:17.540 unify and even Jodi mentions that, but like, I'm not ready to forgive the people who did this.

01:56:24.220 I'm really not.

01:56:25.060 Maybe it's, well, it's definitely not consistent with my, the Catholics, Catholic Church's teachings.

01:56:31.880 Somebody was saying after my episode with Billy Bush, I really should forgive Andy Lack,

01:56:35.640 that that's, you know, that's what we believe as Catholics.

01:56:38.740 And you become bitter if you hold on to the forgiveness, you know, it corrodes yourself,

01:56:42.100 not the other.

01:56:42.500 I guess it doesn't, it hasn't made me bitter.

01:56:44.040 I'm actually really enjoying the loathing I have for him.

01:56:46.540 I don't want to give it up.

01:56:49.240 And I just feel like they're, they're still doing it to us.

01:56:52.340 So I do see them more as enemies who must be defeated as opposed to people with whom I have

01:56:56.660 any intention of unifying.

01:56:58.380 They, they must be brought to heal.

01:57:00.760 And our new leader is the anti-wokester in chief who was onto this mission before the rest of us.

01:57:08.120 So I have total faith in his commitment to the mission and ability to carry it out.

01:57:11.880 But he needs help.

01:57:13.380 The best generals in the world, whether it was George Washington or Patton, needed troops.

01:57:18.760 And that's where all of us come in.

01:57:20.440 Don't let Jody or others stand alone.

01:57:24.620 You know, there's power in numbers.

01:57:26.060 And while our force is riding high right now and feeling euphoric, we can't get overconfident.

01:57:31.360 This stuff is everywhere still.

01:57:33.260 The nation submitted to it.

01:57:34.740 And on the LGBTQ trans stuff, they, they sneaked it into laws state by state.

01:57:40.440 So we have massive legislative battles to fight too.

01:57:42.980 It's going to require donations to the right groups, like independent women's forum, like

01:57:48.180 Alliance Defending Freedom.

01:57:50.220 And it's going to require patience and resolve to fight, which I know the people listening to

01:57:56.020 this show have.

01:57:57.100 So much love to you all.

01:57:59.140 Much love to you, Jody.

01:58:00.240 And 100%, you are welcome to come here when you write that book and update our audience

01:58:06.840 on how it's going.

01:58:08.640 See you guys tomorrow.

01:58:11.720 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:58:13.960 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 21, 2025

Trump's Action-Packed Day One, and Ridiculous Media Spin on Elon ＂Salute,＂ with Charles C.W. Cooke and Rich Lowry ｜ Ep. 987

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