The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump's Compelling VP Pick of J.D. Vance, and Biden Refuses to Lower the Temperature, with Charlie Kirk, Hogan Gidley, and David Plouffe ｜ Ep. 839

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:11.720 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. 48 hours after nearly being

00:00:17.540 assassinated, Donald Trump shows up at the RNC in Milwaukee with a bandage on his ear and a defiant

00:00:23.600 smile on his face. It was a huge day for the GOP as Mr. Trump announced Ohio Senator J.D. Vance as

00:00:32.900 his running mate, ignoring the DEI urges within his own party to go with a woman or a minority.

00:00:39.000 In a minute, I'm going to be joined by Turning Point's Charlie Kirk, who also spoke last night

00:00:44.560 at the convention and was there for it all. I'm very excited to speak with him. But first,

00:00:49.520 take a look at Mr. Trump's entrance last night, coming out like he was a UFC fighting champ.

00:00:55.540 And I had to start again, just my children and my life. My purpose, and that is

00:01:04.900 to elect Donald J. Trump as the next president of the United States.

00:01:09.860 He is here tonight to show his courage, his defiance against somebody who tried to kill

00:01:20.500 him. You will not take this man down. He has the courage, the strength, and he will be

00:01:28.060 the next president of the United States.

00:01:30.620 What a way to begin. There is so much news happening and we have a packed show.

00:01:50.640 We're going to get into President Biden's interview last night with Lester Holt, where despite his

00:01:54.540 own calls to lower the temperature during an Oval Office address to the nation, he did

00:01:59.260 anything but. Even Lester was taken aback. But first, we have to talk about J.D. Vance.

00:02:06.120 Now, I first met J.D. back in 2017, about a year after his book, Hillbilly Elegy, became

00:02:11.420 a New York Times bestseller. The book dropped in the middle of the 2016 election cycle. It was

00:02:16.840 J.D.'s personal story of growing up in Appalachia, dealing with grave family turmoil, poverty,

00:02:25.160 societal decay, abuse, family addiction, and eventually his path to a better life.

00:02:31.700 Though not explicitly a political book, it did help explain to coastal elites some of

00:02:37.540 why Trump's message to the forgotten men and women of middle America, to working class Americans,

00:02:44.260 helped propel him to victory. J.D. was quickly deemed the voice of the Rust Belt.

00:02:50.940 He spent his earliest years in the backwoods of Jackson, Kentucky, a hillbilly born to

00:02:56.960 a proud hillbilly family, as he says. He writes that at various points, his family threatened

00:03:02.180 to cut off his ear, stabbed and shot random transgressors. You got to read the book and

00:03:07.580 believed it was a sin punishable by grave bodily injury to insult someone's mother. When J.D.

00:03:13.780 was still young, his family moved to Middletown, Ohio, a steel town north of Cincinnati, once

00:03:19.600 booming but eventually a casualty of globalization. J.D. watched as the jobs dried up and the basketball

00:03:26.960 courts grew covered with weeds. My home, he writes in Hillbilly Elegy, was a hub of misery.

00:03:34.120 Vance's mother and father divorced when he was just a toddler, his father up and left,

00:03:39.420 abandoning him. His mother, Beverly, was addicted to drugs, eventually heroin. She brought man after

00:03:47.680 man into the home, some abusive to her in front of her young son. J.D.'s childhood was full of trauma

00:03:55.960 like this, which I asked him about. Being sworn at, insulted, or humiliated by your parents.

00:04:01.880 Sure. Check. Being pushed, grabbed, or having something thrown at you. Check. Having parents

00:04:06.940 who were separated or divorced. Check. Living with an alcoholic or a drug user. Check. Living with

00:04:12.860 someone who is depressed or attempted suicide. Check. Watching a loved one be physically abused.

00:04:18.380 Check. Check. You're batting a thousand. Yeah. J.D.'s mother, angry with him once after a fight, 0.98

00:04:28.100 apologized to her son, and then after the apology, put him in a car, began driving erratically,

00:04:34.640 and threatened to crash and kill her terrified little boy. As she began accelerating, J.D. jumped out

00:04:40.800 of the car and ran for help. This is in the book, and he told it to me as well. The police were called by

00:04:46.300 a concerned neighbor, and 12-year-old J.D. watched as the authorities took his mother away.

00:04:52.260 I remember I was just really sad and felt very lonely because I'm sitting in the back of this

00:04:58.420 police cruiser. They've just arrested my mom. The relief of having survived another day was gone,

00:05:05.640 and then I just wanted somebody to come and take me away, and that was actually Lindsay. That was who,

00:05:14.280 sorry. Why does that particular moment bring tears?

00:05:22.980 One, it's just such a crystal clear memory, and so it's hard almost not to feel the same way that

00:05:28.620 I felt as a 12-year-old kid sitting in the back of that police cruiser. But I also think that that

00:05:33.180 moment is kind of a microcosm of my entire life, is that there was this brief moment of terror

00:05:42.000 into feeling really lonely, and then there was Lindsay. I would die for that kid,

00:05:50.800 and I know he would too. Lindsay, J.D.'s sister. She's five years older than J.D., but at the time

00:06:02.820 of that incident, she was only 17. It was after this that J.D. went to live with his strict,

00:06:09.000 no-nonsense, gun-toting grandma, and we do mean gun-toting. She had 19 loaded guns all over her 0.95

00:06:17.460 house. Known to the family as Mamaw, she was perhaps the most consequential in a series of 0.93

00:06:24.040 strong women who saved J.D. from what could have been a dark path.

00:06:29.440 Mamaw, when she died, I think the number is 19 handguns loaded that we found in her house at

00:06:37.880 various places. She also wasn't afraid to threaten using it. Yeah, she said, look, you're going to

00:06:42.740 come and stay with me, and if anybody has a problem with it, they can talk to my gun.

00:06:48.440 Mamaw, who told J.D. never to believe, quote, these fucking losers who think the deck is stacked 1.00

00:06:53.920 against them. You can do anything. It was so iconic that Ron Howard made her character the

00:07:00.580 star of his movie based on J.D.'s book. She was played by Glenn Close.

00:07:06.320 Jen, I never win. Well, if you don't like it, find some lame-ass loser to play with. 1.00

00:07:13.880 You gotta take care of business. You gotta go to school. You gotta get good grades to even have a

00:07:18.540 chance. Mom was the best in her class. What's the point? I'm talking about a chance. You might

00:07:24.380 not make it, but you sure as hell won't if you don't try. Why do you even care what I do?

00:07:28.980 I ain't gonna live forever.

00:07:33.180 Who's gonna take care of this family when I'm gone?

00:07:37.440 It wasn't easy. There were many more ups and downs in his childhood, but J.D.'s grandparents,

00:07:42.780 Mamaw, and his granddad, who lovingly called J.D. things like shithead,

00:07:47.460 and taught him how to take and deliver a punch, drilled into this little boy the importance of

00:07:53.620 good grades as a pathway to a better life. And eventually, J.D. found his way. He enlisted in

00:08:02.080 the Marines. He served overseas in Iraq, where Mamaw and Lindsay wrote to him every day. He came home

00:08:07.980 a more disciplined young man, slimmed down, motivated. He applied to and was accepted at

00:08:14.160 Ohio State University, which he completed in two years, less than half the time expected,

00:08:20.220 earning summa cum laude honors and completing a double major. And then the seemingly impossible

00:08:27.180 admission into Yale Law School, one of the most competitive programs in the country.

00:08:33.200 That is where he met his future wife, Usha, and another hugely influential woman in his life,

00:08:40.420 his professor and my friend, Amy Chua, author of Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. Chua convinced

00:08:47.500 J.D. to write down some of his incredible childhood stories in a memoir, and also to consider marrying

00:08:54.120 Usha, whom she could see was very, very good for J.D. When I interviewed him in 2017, he had just

00:09:01.300 returned from a post-law school stint in San Francisco, working for investor Peter Thiel,

00:09:06.660 and was determined to do something locally now, back in his home area, to help his home community.

00:09:13.600 I spent a fair amount of time with J.D. and Usha, just as she was about to have her first

00:09:18.240 of three babies, and simultaneously head off to clerk for Chief Justice John Roberts. She's an

00:09:24.820 overachiever, too. And I asked about whether politics might be in their future.

00:09:29.720 What do you think? Should he run for office?

00:09:32.940 I think someday, if the time is right, and if he really feels that that's the best way that he

00:09:37.860 can contribute to his home, then I think that would be a great idea.

00:09:41.340 Why do you get uncomfortable when that idea comes up?

00:09:44.200 I just, I think that, you know, when people ask me if I want to run for office,

00:09:48.380 part of me wonders, like, do they think I just give off a used car salesman vibe?

00:09:53.260 Don't you think it's more born of hope that you could be a, you could be a real change agent?

00:09:58.240 Yeah, no, I think that's the optimistic take on it. I'm very flattered when people ask me,

00:10:02.820 and you never say never, but it's just not something that I think about doing right now.

00:10:08.120 Never say never is right. Less than eight years later, he's in line to become potentially the

00:10:13.880 next vice president of the United States and the Republican Party's future. The man who could

00:10:19.360 carry on Trump's political legacy. His story is the definition of the American dream. It's

00:10:25.480 inspirational. As with most stories like JD's, there are some realities to this path out of trauma

00:10:33.380 that are not all rainbows and unicorns. And that led to what I think is the most poignant part

00:10:39.440 of our time together. A discussion about how it's all affected him and his enduring bond with one of

00:10:47.600 the women key to his survival of these traumas. His sister, Lindsay. Do you think he's dealt with

00:10:56.840 this stuff? I think that he thinks that he has. I think that this book, writing it was a very good

00:11:05.700 step. When I finished the book, I felt a little worried about you. I wondered if you had really

00:11:15.040 dealt with everything. That's interesting. And when I met with Lindsay, she wondered too.

00:11:22.600 What do you think? That's a really good question. I've never been asked this. I think that the

00:11:28.060 honest answer is that I probably haven't dealt with everything, but that that's part of growing up and

00:11:37.180 living your life is you're constantly dealing with this stuff and you're constantly working through it.

00:11:41.320 The book is not an effort to sort of finally work through all of these things that happened when

00:11:47.080 I was a kid. It's the beginning of an effort that will probably take me for the rest of my life. And

00:11:51.680 I'm okay with that. Wow. Yesterday, this was J.D. Vance on stage in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,

00:11:58.680 as he accepted the nomination for vice president of the United States on the GOP ticket.

00:12:05.140 Delegates and alternates, ladies and gentlemen, I am proud to announce that

00:12:10.760 Senator J.D. Vance has the overwhelming support of this convention to be the next vice president of

00:12:17.700 the United States. Wow. I'm not going to lie. That brought a tear to my eye. I have a very soft spot in

00:12:29.860 my heart for this guy, 39 years old and the embodiment of the American dream.

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00:13:47.000 further. Text MK to 989898 now. Joining me now, Charlie Kirk, the founder and CEO of Turning Point

00:13:54.020 USA. He's also the host of The Charlie Kirk Show and author of the brand new book,

00:13:58.300 Right Wing Revolution, How to Beat the Woke and Save the West. Charlie, welcome back. I know you

00:14:03.540 also spoke yesterday, but my God, J.D., I'm thrilled that he's the pick. How about you?

00:14:10.120 I couldn't be happier. Thanks, Megan, for having me. I was pushing for this for quite some time. I was an

00:14:16.160 early endorser of J.D.'s Senate primary when he was at one or two percent in the polls in Ohio,

00:14:21.780 and nobody thought he had a chance, and he was up against the establishment and tens of millions

00:14:26.780 of dollars, and that's a story worth telling as well. I was getting very emotional watching that

00:14:31.620 video because J.D.'s a dear friend, and I hope your audience understands the more you get to know

00:14:37.700 J.D. Vance, the more you're going to like him. His family is extraordinary. He is a good, smart man,

00:14:44.580 and I put it in that order. He is a decent person of high integrity, wonderful family. He's in it for the

00:14:50.820 right reasons. There are some really important similarities that J.D. Vance has with President

00:14:56.740 Trump, such as being a class traitor. It's important to remember, Megan, that when that

00:15:01.700 book came out, he was so celebrated by the left-wing elite. He was the keynote speaker at the Aspen Ideas

00:15:09.000 Festival. He was on every major left-wing network of being celebrated as the guy who can explain why

00:15:16.320 Donald Trump has such a big following. J.D. Vance, over a series of years, made a decision to forsake

00:15:23.300 that type of popularity and to go into not just a career in politics, but to get into a pattern of

00:15:31.140 advocacy that led him into politics. It is an extraordinary rise. You said it so perfectly, Megan,

00:15:38.500 only in America, and only in America is it possible where a young man, and he's older than me, but he's

00:15:46.340 relatively young in the modern political dynamic, can come from absolute poverty, be abused, raised by

00:15:52.160 his grandmother, had all the odds stacked against him to become the nominee for vice president of the 0.90

00:15:58.480 United States for the front-runner and former president. How did we get here? Well, I mean, we got

00:16:03.580 here first and foremost through divine providence, and I'm sure we're going to talk about that over the

00:16:07.320 last week, just the fact that this convention is still going on in its current form or fashion.

00:16:12.800 But secondly, it's a testament to J.D. J.D. did not want this, Megan. I hope everyone understands in

00:16:17.840 the audience, you know, almost everyone who was going for vice president had, like, war rooms, and

00:16:22.400 they had, you know, lobbying campaigns, and they were going after this to try to buddy up to Trump for

00:16:28.320 the last nine months or 10 months. When J.D.'s, his name was first floated to become Trump's vice

00:16:33.800 president, potentially, in February and March, he's like, me? Like, what? He's like, yeah, I love Trump,

00:16:38.580 but like, what? And this is a guy who didn't ask for it. He didn't plan for it. He's not full of that

00:16:44.460 kind of naked political ambition that I find to be so disgusting and repulsive. Things just kind of come

00:16:51.300 to him, and people see in him the best of the Trump movement, forgotten America, someone who lived

00:16:57.800 that story and who will fight for those voters in Washington, D.C. You know, I said this before to

00:17:04.200 our audience here, and I said this isn't like a said in a romantic way, but my time with him,

00:17:10.060 and we were there for a few days, led me to believe that this is a beautiful man. He's a beautiful man,

00:17:15.280 and I think that opening shows you what I mean. He's thoughtful, he's soulful, he's reflective,

00:17:21.400 he's introspective, and I happen to love the fact that his good character, his survival was shaped by

00:17:29.320 women. It was his mamaw who got him through this, this childhood and her strength. His sister,

00:17:37.120 with whom he has such a loving and dear relationship to this day, loved Lindsay. And then I love the fact

00:17:43.360 that it's Amy Chua at Yale Law School, who's like one of the only non-woke, amazing, like normal

00:17:50.880 professors at Yale Law School who would help him take the next step. You know, that she saw in him,

00:17:57.340 this is not just the next generation of lawyer. This is a special guy whose voice needs to be heard

00:18:03.020 well beyond the Yale Law School campus and the campuses of white shoe law firms in America.

00:18:09.680 She helped steer him, and she helped Usha, too, who had, you know, two federal clerkships,

00:18:14.180 including, as I said, for the Supreme Court. So to me, that speaks so well of him, like that,

00:18:19.580 the Republican Party, as you know, still gets demonized by the Democrats as like a bunch of

00:18:24.880 just moronic, burly men, you know, toxic men who want to take away the rights to abortion.

00:18:31.500 And like, yes, J.D. is pro-life, but that is a man who respects women and whose very character

00:18:37.280 was shaped by strong women. Without a doubt. And I mean, it's important to understand that the men

00:18:44.660 and J.D.'s life failed him. And who's who filled the void? As you went, you went through the list

00:18:50.920 beautifully. And so look, and J.D. has a huge heart. He just he he radiates sincerity. And you

00:18:58.000 know that because I mean, I'm around. Look, honestly, Megan, I'm gonna have to go through

00:19:01.020 some sort of detox. I'm here at the RNC right now. And there are so many political creatures

00:19:05.800 crawling around here. It's so disgusting. You know, it's always about it. No, I mean, honestly,

00:19:10.160 it's like always about an angle. And I want something from you. And they just they just ooze

00:19:14.420 that sort of stench of, you know, I'm trying to game the system with J.D. It's completely different.

00:19:20.620 And it's not just me. I'm going to tell you a true story. So this is the middle of the Veep

00:19:24.520 stakes. We have our people's convention in Detroit, Michigan, and we have nearly 10,000 people there.

00:19:31.300 And I was like, hey, J.D., we're doing a straw poll for the vice presidency. If you want to try to make

00:19:35.900 it, you know, I think you'll do very well because the audience likes you. It's like, yeah, you know,

00:19:39.920 it's my 10 year wedding anniversary. He's like, that's a top priority for me. He said,

00:19:44.360 but let me see what I can do. So he prioritizes the wedding anniversary and he texts like the day

00:19:48.640 before. He's like, OK, I think I can make it on Sunday. I said, great. So my team calls me and

00:19:53.980 they said, hey, J.D.'s coming. But he's driving himself from Columbus. It's like, what do you mean

00:19:59.700 he's driving himself? This is a U.S. senator, Megan, with who might be the next vice president United

00:20:05.160 States or the selection for VP, who literally got in a car early on Sunday morning, drove three and a

00:20:11.020 half hours to Detroit by himself, staffed himself, was so warm to all of our staff, probably on almost

00:20:16.320 no sleep, you know, took every picture, signed every every book that was asked of him, gave an

00:20:21.260 amazing speech, got back in the car so he could be back at dinner in Columbus, Ohio. I mean, like

00:20:26.840 that's that's so unheard of. I mean, there are people that come and speak at our events that are

00:20:32.120 running for dog catcher and they come with an entourage and a posse that makes, you know, most

00:20:37.000 rappers look as if they're understaffed. J.D. Vance is, you know, driving himself. And it's just

00:20:42.300 like he's like, yeah, it's just like I'm a regular guy. He doesn't think of himself as if he's, you

00:20:46.400 know, better than you or that he's part of some sort of, you know, high society class. And I think

00:20:52.640 that he adds a dynamic and an element to the Trump ticket that will grow as time goes on. People are

00:20:59.580 going to deepen their understanding of what the MAGA agenda really is. And also there is a youthful

00:21:05.600 dynamic, which I am so pleased that the data is screaming at us right now. Please put somebody

00:21:12.000 on the ticket under the age of 50. Please put somebody on the ticket under the age of 50. And 0.53

00:21:17.020 now you have Biden, 81, Trump, 78, Kamala Harris, either 58 or 59, late 50s. And now J.D. Vance,

00:21:23.500 39. I mean, that is a serious contrast who can really be a communicator to 35 year old voters

00:21:31.180 who are struggling to buy a home and struggling to build a family. And so I think this was the

00:21:36.700 best pick that Donald Trump could make. And more than anything else, he has a decent and a good

00:21:43.100 person. And that is so hard to find in American politics. That's right. He when I interviewed him,

00:21:49.080 it was seven years ago, he was 32. He was there. He wasn't even old enough to run for president at

00:21:53.400 that point. And now here he is seven years later, you know, saying yes to potentially filling the

00:21:59.360 most important role in the nation. God forbid something should happen to President Trump if

00:22:03.260 this ticket wins. I do want to say Usha, an absolute star. And not only is she brilliant,

00:22:11.420 I mean, truly brilliant. She went to Yale undergrad and then she went to Yale law school and she might 0.66

00:22:14.780 have done a stint to Cambridge too. I can't remember. But, um, so she is a very successful

00:22:19.540 lawyer in her own right. But when he talked about her, he talked about how she too was one of these

00:22:26.140 strong women in his life who helped him in the next chapter. She helped him understand how to manage

00:22:32.300 his emotions, how to find calm in the storm, how to not let anger dictate how he responds in any given

00:22:39.840 moment. You know, he talked about how there was, um, if he has road rage and he wants to get out

00:22:44.900 and settle it hillbilly style, you know, Usha was kind of like showing him in the beginning of their

00:22:50.320 relationship, there was another way JD and was teaching him like conflict resolution in a

00:22:56.060 relationship and to, to, to sever what had become as it does with a lot of people who grew up in a

00:23:02.040 household, like he did almost an addiction to trauma, you know, like you need to recreate it

00:23:08.020 probably. So you get a different result, but also because it gives you an adrenaline surge.

00:23:12.020 You know, at first he talked about how, and he wrote in his book, how he was scared when he heard

00:23:16.240 all the fighting going out on his house, his mother being abused and would cover his ears and cry when

00:23:21.560 he was really little. And then he got to this point that's even more dangerous where he put his ear up

00:23:26.460 against the door to hear it. And those scars needed to be addressed before he could have a healthy

00:23:33.160 relationship with Usha. And so she helped him, you know, she's been helping him learn how to be,

00:23:39.260 as they say, quote, in relationship in a healthy way. It's just, as I see this man stand out there

00:23:43.880 last night, you know, slimmer, he looked great. I love the beard, um, just more together. He stepped

00:23:51.180 in with his leadership role. I see the product of all these chapters of his life, which he's been very

00:23:56.040 awake for and paying attention, you know, to where they're taking him and where his life could go.

00:24:01.900 And I do believe he's on a journey of self-discovery that it would be an honor for the rest of us to

00:24:07.120 watch unfold in its next chapter before the United States. This is, they don't come much better than

00:24:12.400 this, Charlie. No, they don't. And there's so many similarities with Donald Trump and then so many

00:24:17.200 differences. And so Donald Trump, of course, was born, uh, in a different life with a different

00:24:23.120 upbringing. Right. And there, but in the same way, they're both class traitors and they both seem,

00:24:28.780 see the world very similarly. And I just think it's this hopeful Testament that you could still

00:24:34.180 make it in this country and that there still is a fighting chance. If you have at least one or two

00:24:40.240 people that are willing to pour into you, I guarantee you, Megan mama is going to get a 1.00

00:24:44.320 mention in the vice presidential acceptance. I guarantee it. I guarantee his book to her.

00:24:50.160 Yeah. We need more mama. The stories about her unbelievable. I remember talking to him,

00:24:54.420 he came on again and we talked, um, you know, on this show, but he, um, there's a story about how

00:25:00.480 the, the grandpa papa, he was boozing and staying out too late and not treating mama. Right. And let

00:25:09.780 me tell you, it's not a good idea. You should not treat mama poorly. And she said, if you do this again,

00:25:15.820 I'm going to kill you. And he came home that her husband drunk yet again, misbehaving. And she set

00:25:23.320 him on fire. Now this is not a recommendation, but he was okay. But this is just to underscore

00:25:31.220 mama was quite a woman. And this is JD's, you know, this is the person who made him tough, 1.00

00:25:38.500 but also loving, you know, weirdly. I mean, she was the most affectionate and kind to JD who I

00:25:45.020 mentioned. She was calling him shithead things like, but she absolutely adored this kid and would

00:25:50.160 not let him set a low bar for himself, you know, helped him get a library card, made sure that he

00:25:54.900 was getting access to the right books, you know, taught him morals like the poor don't steal from

00:25:59.580 the poor. That's the lowest form of low, um, taught him how to take a punch. She, because there is 0.87

00:26:04.800 in hillbilly culture a thing. And in other cultures, you know, you don't let certain things

00:26:08.640 happen. You have to fight. And he writes in the book about how he was afraid of it. And so she

00:26:13.040 punched him in the face because she's, and he was taken aback and she said, was that so bad? And he

00:26:18.560 said, actually, no. And she said, well, that's what it feels like. So you'll be okay. And the next day

00:26:22.840 he went to school and he stuck up for a kid who was being bullied and he punched the bully in the fit in

00:26:27.080 the gut. And that bully never bothered him or the other kid again. So it's like, it's kind of street

00:26:32.120 justice. And I know today people will be like, Oh, but it produces someone of extraordinary

00:26:37.960 character. And to me, it's exciting that he could be, you know, the vice president is an important

00:26:43.560 position in some ways, but it's more about him taking the baton from Trump next gen. You know,

00:26:49.040 Trump is term limited, obviously, if he wins again and we need somebody else to be the standard bearer

00:26:53.600 pretty soon. Yeah. And just honestly, let's, let's make sure we give credit to president Trump.

00:26:59.200 There was a aggressive lobbying campaign against JD Vance, the likes of which I could,

00:27:06.660 I could write a short book and I have text messages to prove it. Uh, cause I was pushing

00:27:11.400 for JD both privately and publicly. It's not a mystery. And I was using every ounce of political

00:27:18.060 capital I had with president Trump and the team, uh, to try to make the case for JD. And I'll tell you

00:27:24.620 some of the worst people as Tucker Carlson said in this entire American political system,

00:27:30.480 we're doing everything they could to prevent JD from becoming VP. Why? Well, because JD has a

00:27:37.760 contrarian, but I believe correct view on the Ukrainian conflict that we should not send hundreds 1.00

00:27:43.120 of billions of dollars unrestricted to a foreign nation. He's not a Johnny come lately. 0.93

00:27:47.900 No, he's not. And by the way, I think they're most angry that he's being proven right. And that

00:27:53.940 he has exposed them all as frauds and liars and that his whole perspective is let's stop the killing

00:27:59.980 and also are the homeland must be prioritized above foreign abstractions. But president Trump,

00:28:07.700 you know, he gets knocked a lot. And I think this last week has really been hopefully a clarifying

00:28:12.600 moment for people of the media has been lying to you about Donald Trump repeatedly. You know,

00:28:17.900 how many times have we heard, Oh, Donald Trump is a coward who can't stand up for himself. Okay.

00:28:21.380 He got shot. And the way he responded when he got shot was one of the most heroic, unbelievable,

00:28:26.180 uh, just moments in American history. We're always told that, Oh, Donald Trump is going to choose

00:28:31.840 people around him that just confirm him because, you know, he's, uh, he's not willing to stand up for

00:28:37.620 what he believes in. Wow. I mean, he basically said, look, I want to now create a multi-generational

00:28:46.360 movement that goes beyond me. That's a big deal, Megan. I mean, that's not a, that's not a light

00:28:52.680 decision. Think about it. He could have chose some of the other people in the running that were closer

00:28:57.280 to him in age that had no charisma that could raise a bunch of money. And that was, they were

00:29:02.700 interesting as watching paint dry, you know, exactly who I'm talking about, right? These,

00:29:06.980 these finalists, okay, that would have been the safe pick, but then honestly, there's no guarantee

00:29:13.160 that the movement, excuse me, that Donald Trump built would continue that it would survive what

00:29:19.680 Donald Trump did. And this is why they were howling and screaming these neoconservative neoliberals

00:29:26.200 that wing of the party that I just can't stand because now they know that all of a sudden there has

00:29:31.780 been a cementing of this worldview. And for someone who's 30 years old, who has been trying to make

00:29:38.260 sure that this change in the Republican party is permanent, not temporary. This is one of the biggest

00:29:44.000 deals imaginable. So credit to president Trump. He stood up to some very, very powerful people.

00:29:49.700 He, uh, understood it and, and saw the game 10, 20, 30 years, uh, down, down the path. And he picked an

00:29:58.280 extraordinary man. Um, and he trusted his instinct and he trusted his instinct. I don't know, it was a

00:30:05.040 month or two ago on the show. Cause all things for me relate back to Willy Wonka and the chocolate

00:30:08.740 factory, my favorite movie. And, uh, I was saying this pick for Trump could be like Willy Wonka needing

00:30:16.000 to go outside of the industry to find a child, not an adult who would want to do everything his own

00:30:22.300 way. Not that JD is a child, but I was making the point that like you could get somebody who you,

00:30:26.120 who, who would take the baton and continue the traditions as you've established them in this

00:30:29.900 very successful venture, or you could bring in somebody else who would want to do everything

00:30:34.100 their own way. And I think ultimately he chose somebody who would take the baton and continue the

00:30:39.000 MAGA tradition and the way that Trump has created it. And I think that was, that's exactly what the

00:30:44.340 party needed because I think the rest of the Republican party is going to, and already is

00:30:48.620 coming home to Trump as they did in 16. And I do think, you know, he should do something to keep a,

00:30:55.920 the movement alive, but also to win back some of the male slippage that he suffered in 20 versus 16.

00:31:03.940 He did not need to get a big boost with Hispanic men or black men. He's doing very well with those.

00:31:10.220 He does well with white men too, but there had been some slippage from 16 to 20. And for once

00:31:15.320 you had a leader who said, I see that. And I actually care. I care about white men. 0.63

00:31:19.720 I want them to feel invigorated and see the future. I'm not doing a diversity pick. I'm not doing a

00:31:24.980 woman because people tell me I have problems with suburban women. I'm doing what I think is right.

00:31:29.340 So credit to Trump. I've got to keep, you go with it, but I have so much else to get to.

00:31:33.340 I love it. The fact that you have to pick based on affirmative action criteria is stupid. And Trump

00:31:39.220 basically threw out the whole DEI worldview by saying no competence and merit over characteristics

00:31:45.260 that don't matter. Yes. Okay. So, um, already the media has got the knives out for JD and they're

00:31:52.620 thrilled, right? Because they were, they would have been terrified of one of these more establishment

00:31:55.580 picks, um, who they secretly, you know, would love instead of Trump. So with JD, they know what you

00:32:01.800 and I know they saw what we just discussed. They know his life story is extremely powerful and will

00:32:06.840 resonate with a lot of voters. So they're trying to make him into some demon, you know, scary

00:32:11.920 conservative, which he's really not. He's nationalist populist and he's conservative, but he's, I don't,

00:32:18.140 he's not like Ted Cruz conservative. Now there's anything wrong with Ted Cruz. Um, and already Joe

00:32:23.360 Biden's out, you know, the new and reformed Joe Biden, who's going to lower the temperature is out with

00:32:26.820 an ad about JD. And it happens to use a piece of my interview with JD Vance that we just excerpted

00:32:33.820 from back from when I was at NBC. Let me show you, it's just a six second clip. Here it is.

00:32:40.060 Absolutely. I've criticized a lot of Trump's rhetoric and I'm not a big fan of some of the

00:32:44.420 things that he said, but there were. Okay. I'm not a big fan of some of the things that he said.

00:32:49.800 First of all, the campaign tweeted out that what he actually said was, I'm not a big fan of his,

00:32:53.560 a big fan of Trump. That's not what he said. There is a distinction between I'm not his fan

00:32:59.640 and I'm not a big fan of one of some of the things that he has said. So just, just for clarity. But

00:33:04.200 secondly, take a look at the longer clip in this exchange between yours truly and JD.

00:33:09.960 Do you think that it explains why when the so-called coastal elites were getting very upset over the many

00:33:17.140 offenses that Trump caused some of the sexism, some of the foul mouth language that this was not

00:33:24.660 particularly shocking because a lot of these folks had grown up around that? Absolutely. I've criticized

00:33:30.180 a lot of Trump's rhetoric and I'm not a big fan of some of the things that he said, but there was

00:33:34.820 almost a sense where people were offended by Trump, not because of the substance of what he said, but

00:33:41.220 because of how he said it. Good society people should not talk in this way. And I just never

00:33:47.860 quite understood that, that criticism. Completely bastardized by the Biden campaign like that,

00:33:56.980 as are half of the things they're saying about him. However, having said that, Charlie, he was

00:34:01.300 critical of Trump in 2016 because virtually everybody was critical of Trump 2016. The media wants to

00:34:07.780 pretend there's no evolution on Trump from 16 to 24. I think that this was act and I, I, in my private

00:34:14.660 and public lobbying campaign for JD Vance, I decided to lean into the negative as one of the leads

00:34:20.100 because I, of course, going to come up. So I was talking to the president multiple times about this

00:34:24.340 and I said, Mr. President, everyone around you is going to say that JD said bad things about you.

00:34:28.500 I think that's exactly why you should select him. He said, well, what do you mean? I said, because

00:34:32.180 there's a lot of people in the country that have said negative things about you that have grown and

00:34:37.060 seen who you are and they want you as president again. And now you have a VP that can connect to

00:34:42.660 them and say, I was a skeptic. Now I'm a believer. I was someone that wasn't sure. And now I am a

00:34:47.860 committed devotee, not just someone in DC who always just has perfectly tailored talking points.

00:34:54.500 And so I thought this was actually a differentiator that was an olive branch to the part of the country

00:35:00.980 that might've said, Oh, I, who's this Trump guy? I don't get it. And all of a sudden they would look

00:35:04.340 and they'd say, wow, maybe all of my operating assumptions have been incorrect. Maybe I have

00:35:10.980 been focusing on the wrong things where Trump micro might bother me. Okay. Trump might say words

00:35:17.060 I don't like and tweet stuff, but Trump macro is the best president of our lifetime where we have

00:35:22.100 peace and prosperity and we have a border and we don't have men's and women's sports, all this stuff.

00:35:25.940 And I think JD Vance is, is a perfect person to be able to tackle that. Cause if we are being honest,

00:35:34.660 if we want to beat Joe Biden in November, I think that having a vice president who can kind of joke

00:35:40.740 and be like, Hey, how many in this audience have been Trump skeptics before Megan? I bet a lot of

00:35:44.900 hands would go up and he can, cause he, cause he's that talented. Yeah, exactly. JD Vance is that

00:35:52.020 talented. He's that smart. He can like shrug it off and say, Hey, if we were only going to buy people

00:35:56.980 that, um, were behind Donald Trump when he got down the escalator, we would not win many electoral votes,

00:36:02.420 right? But politics is about addition, not subtract, subtraction, multiplication, not division.

00:36:07.860 So I think it's a, actually an, a potential huge positive for the campaign. It's amazing when you

00:36:14.820 look at, you know, the, the, now they're trying to paint him as like this, as I said, crazy, crazy

00:36:19.460 guy. We pulled just the bills that he sponsored that are in committee right now. Let me give you

00:36:24.180 a list. All right, quickly. Um, he's only been in the Senate for a year and a half, the protection of

00:36:28.660 women and girls in sports act. It's obvious from its name, what that's about protecting minors from 0.96

00:36:33.140 medical malpractice, meaning the, these surgeries that were performing on underage people,

00:36:37.140 cutting off penises. He's against it. Same protect children's innocent act to present,

00:36:42.180 to protect children from some of these crazy drugs that are sterilizing them.

00:36:45.620 The border safety and security act of 2023. Yes. Suspend the entry of aliens, uh, in order to 1.00

00:36:51.220 achieve the operational control of the border. Correct. The death tax repeal act. Thank you.

00:36:55.620 Yes. If we want to pass money to our children upon our death, shouldn't we be able to without

00:36:58.740 the government taking half? Yes. Uh, the English English language, English language unity act of 2023

00:37:04.420 to declare English as the official language of the U S kids online safety act to protect children

00:37:08.980 on the internet and endless wars act. Correct. Um, Kate's law stop illegal reentry act to increase

00:37:16.580 penalties for individuals who illegally reenter the U S after being removed, secure the border act,

00:37:21.060 uh, schools, not shelters act to stop people from using schools as a shelter for aliens who are not

00:37:26.660 here lawfully. Uh, the Lake and Riley act to require the sec, uh, the Homeland security department to

00:37:31.940 actually force these sanctuary cities to cooperate. I could go on these, these, these, these are not

00:37:38.580 extreme. I've virtually everybody listening to the show and I have plenty of people who are not

00:37:42.820 Republicans listening would agree with all of those Charlie. Totally. And this is what's important

00:37:48.740 is that JD Vance is going to be smeared as this like radical conservative. Okay. Yes, he is a

00:37:54.980 conservative, but he's someone that is not as ideological as you would imagine. He wants a

00:38:01.220 restoration of the normal. And that's why he's so well liked in Ohio. So wait, what did we just go

00:38:05.780 through the list of? Okay. We believe in borders that we should have a unified language. We believe

00:38:11.060 that men should not be in female sports and that children should not be victims of

00:38:15.220 unproven and medieval medical experiments. These are this wars. Yes. And no endless wars. And also

00:38:23.300 this is what's really important is that those are things that he knows are losing issues for the

00:38:29.620 Democrats. And it's a fun and important new wrinkle to the MAGA agenda that is beyond just what we saw

00:38:37.380 in 2016 and 2020 specifically the trans issue with the children, men and women's sports. And I think

00:38:44.580 you're going to hear more about that, uh, Megan in the coming days, uh, at the convention as this

00:38:49.140 culminates. And so, yeah, and look, he's only been there for quite some time, but you know what you

00:38:53.620 saw and all that led that legislative pattern, a pattern of moral clarity that JD Vance was not

00:38:59.780 going there to try to get committee assignments that is there to do a job and that he's there to

00:39:04.500 fulfill the mandate from his voters. And he's there to do the right thing. And he will do that as vice

00:39:09.540 president and he will be steady and wise counsel to Donald Trump to reinstitute title nine the way it

00:39:16.100 should be. There'll be no men and female sports. I mean, just imagine the first week of a Trump 0.65

00:39:21.140 Vance presidency. It, the 90% of this executive garbage that Joe Biden has done with the men and

00:39:28.820 female sports, all that will be undone. And JD Vance will make sure it happens. 1.00

00:39:33.460 Mm hmm. And Trump has come fully come on board to where you and I are on the gender stuff.

00:39:40.260 He's gotten it. I think he just wasn't paying attention to a lot of that stuff early on,

00:39:43.860 but he's there now. And you hear even the New York times was doing a thing on Trump saying,

00:39:48.340 yeah, on the gender stuff, he's going to crack down. He, but LGB rights are safe under Trump. 1.00

00:39:53.560 He's not going to mess with LGB, but yes, on this trans stuff with minors and girl sports,

00:39:58.260 Trump is on team GOP fully, which is good. Um, I want to move on to Trump and the assassination

00:40:04.820 attempt, which is almost disappeared from the mainstream media 72 hours after it happened,

00:40:10.060 Charlie. It's amazing how the left wing press has moved right on. They do not want anything

00:40:14.100 that's going to make Trump look strong, look sympathetic, look good, look heroic. Certainly

00:40:19.200 not. And, um, in the wake of the media reporting, we are getting some shocking facts on the secret

00:40:25.560 service failure. Now, um, the latest headlines are that the shooter was spotted by law enforcement

00:40:31.900 nearly 30 minutes before the shots were fired. We show the audience, the video yesterday showing

00:40:38.300 the people being like, he's up there, he's up there, he's on the roof. But now we know it was

00:40:41.620 nearly 30 minutes. He was spotted before he actually unleashed fire and the secret service

00:40:48.300 while saying that local law enforcement was told of a suspicious person by rally attendees.

00:40:53.200 Um, it's unclear whether or when this was relayed to the secret service. So there's still more

00:41:00.680 questions than answered about how this massive failure took place. What do you make of it?

00:41:07.460 I hope it's incompetence, Megan. And I'm, we are flirting with potential either gross negligence

00:41:15.040 or malevolence. And so let me just read this reporting from Sean Davis, who's legit from the

00:41:20.280 Federalist, by the way, this guy is, he's the real deal. Secret service had snipers inside the

00:41:25.340 building. The assassin used, they took pictures of him. They watched him pull out a range finder

00:41:30.300 to get the exact distance to Trump. They radioed the secret service command post about the assassin.

00:41:35.680 They all knew that he was there. Who gave the order to do nothing until the assassin shot Trump,

00:41:41.440 killed an innocent man on stage and fired a round after round after round.

00:41:44.880 This is a mainstream reporting now where multiple secret service agents were indifferent about an

00:41:52.300 assassin climbing on a roof and having an unobstructed 120 yard shot of Donald Trump.

00:41:57.800 We keep on hearing that it's incompetence. That's pretty hard to believe at this point.

00:42:03.580 Were there people that just didn't care about the protection of Donald Trump? Are these people

00:42:08.460 that are that stupid? I mean, is it, is this, is this really, is this what we're supposed to just

00:42:14.580 believe that this is just a failure of intellect or that this is all DEI? And so here's a very simple

00:42:20.720 question. As soon as there was commotion or chatter, why don't you pull Donald Trump off stage?

00:42:26.720 Put him in a vehicle.

00:42:27.860 You should say, Hey, put him on stage right now. We got some weird stuff going on.

00:42:31.140 In fact, they're saying we're blaming local law enforcement garbage. That is, that is nonsense.

00:42:37.920 And still we have no resignations. We have no firings. We probably have a great coverup going on.

00:42:44.660 And I am incredibly cynical and jaded in the short term. When it comes to this,

00:42:49.420 nobody was fired. No one was fired from the Afghanistan withdrawal. Nobody was fired with

00:42:55.140 our handling of COVID and all the lies associated. In fact, the opposite, all those people are making

00:42:59.160 more money than ever. And they've ascended in high society. No one was fired or held accountable from

00:43:05.080 the signing of that letter for the Hunter Biden laptop or the coverup that ensued there. Why should

00:43:10.120 we believe that anyone should be fired when Donald Trump got shot? Megan, I was watching a lot of

00:43:16.140 mainstream networks. What the calisthenics that they have to go through with their diction and their

00:43:21.880 vocab choices to not say the term Trump got shot is, is unlike anything I have ever seen. I mean,

00:43:28.600 it's as if, or the a word assassination. That's right. They're saying, uh, yes, at the incident,

00:43:33.960 uh, Oh, Oh, the incident, CNN said that he fell on stage when this happened. Yes. These,

00:43:40.280 these are bad people. Okay. The media is full of bad people. They're not incompetent. They're not just

00:43:46.340 partisans. These are bad human beings who deep down many of them. If you could read their private

00:43:53.240 thoughts, they wanted Donald Trump to actually die on that stage. And only by the grace of God and by

00:44:00.520 divine providence and the turning of a head and a slight gust of wind, did it just hit his ear?

00:44:06.280 I would, I wonder how many registered Democrats in this country actually know that Donald Trump got

00:44:11.540 shot, not just had shrapnel at him. I actually, I think that would be a very interesting thing to find

00:44:17.260 out, but Megan, we actually have Keith Olbermann out there suggesting he wasn't shot at all and

00:44:22.200 that he's made the whole thing up. These people are just are, I keep on using that word. They're

00:44:27.700 repulsive. They are the lowest of the low. And again, I just, there's so many elements here to

00:44:33.780 unpack. You have Barack Obama and Bill Clinton. I'll say, you know, thoughts and prayers. Oh, really?

00:44:39.480 You said he was Hitler. Basically many of you, like if Hitler got shot at, would you say thoughts

00:44:45.160 and prayers for Vlad for Hitler or for Vladimir Putin? You guys compared to Putin repeatedly. So

00:44:50.800 which, so one of those is a lie, either he's not Putin or Hitler, or you actually don't mean thoughts

00:44:56.880 and prayers for Donald Trump. And you hope that he got his, his brains blown out. This was, we were,

00:45:02.260 we were anywhere between one inch to two inches, Megan from civilizational chaos. Yeah. We were one,

00:45:09.480 I mean, they, they say it would have been a civil war. No, yeah. I hope you were, I hope you're

00:45:14.300 wrong. And I think you're right. They say football is a game of inches. The civilization is now a game

00:45:19.280 of inches. It was, it was scary on so many levels. I, I want to say this, all the reporting we've seen

00:45:26.740 so far is that it was local officials in that building and not the secret service. I realize Sean

00:45:32.260 is reporting it was secret service. We had a secret service, former guy on the show yesterday and a

00:45:36.640 security expert with ties to all these folks who are, you know, investigating this and involved.

00:45:41.080 And they seem to say it's, it was the local authorities, but they were not giving the secret

00:45:45.520 service a pass. They were saying, nonetheless, the local authorities and the area outside the

00:45:50.880 perimeter is ultimately the responsibility of the secret service as well. Just because some pieces get

00:45:56.520 delegated doesn't mean it's still not on the shoulders of the secret service. Whose main mission

00:46:00.140 is to protect the life of the president. Uh, so we'll find out, but yes, now the reporting is pretty

00:46:04.720 universal that there were at least three agents of some sort, local or secret, um, inside the building

00:46:09.980 and people were calling attention to this guy and nothing was done until a moment before he fired the

00:46:17.340 trigger at Trump. You know, one cop hoisted another cop up who looked on the rooftop and got threatened

00:46:23.440 with the gun and went back down as opposed to taking on the gunman, which I realized easy for me to

00:46:28.180 say, but I'm not in law enforcement. I'm not courageous like that. That's why I sit at an anchor desk all day.

00:46:32.740 How did he get on the roof? I mean, yeah, well, there's some reports. I don't know whether this

00:46:39.100 drove that, but that he climbed a ladder that may or not may or may not have, doesn't look like there

00:46:42.800 was a ladder there because, um, how, why did the cop have to hoist somebody? Um, did he have help?

00:46:48.340 All of this needs to be investigated. Yes. And so first of all, I don't trust any of the investigators.

00:46:52.480 I bet they're actively covering things up and destroying evidence because that's what they do.

00:46:56.580 The, the, the secret service director, who's another DEI pick where her experience before this

00:47:01.640 was protecting Pepsi cans and potato chips, not an exaggeration. She was the head of Jill Biden's 0.99

00:47:07.620 favorite. Yeah. Jill Biden's favorite, who is a DEI pick. And she has been more concerned about

00:47:13.840 diversifying the secret service. You saw the people around Donald Trump. They're not exactly people

00:47:19.160 that you would want to be protecting a president United States. They can't holster a weapon. They

00:47:23.320 weren't even strong enough to be able to bring Donald Trump to the vehicle. The secret service

00:47:26.980 director, Kim Cheadle says this snipers weren't on the roof where Thomas crook shot because it was

00:47:32.140 sloped and unsafe. That's right. That, that, that, that is, that is something that, um,

00:47:39.960 she should be fired immediately. Well, of course, but she's, but even if she's fired, 1.00

00:47:43.500 she'll keep her pension and she'll go get hired at a corporate job for security. I, her goal was to 1.00

00:47:48.420 make 30% of the secret service female. And I want to just make one more point here, Megan.

00:47:52.860 You were so kind to me when I made my, uh, my remark about DEI and black pilots,

00:47:58.920 which got taken out of context, you gave me an opportunity to defend myself and the media came

00:48:02.860 after me hard and you were very kind to me. The point I was making back in February is the same

00:48:07.200 point. Now I will get people killed. Okay. This is not a joke that the fact that you start hiring

00:48:13.840 based on characteristics that don't matter is one of the reasons why Donald Trump felt too,

00:48:20.360 it was two inches away from getting his brains blown out and this country on the brink of a

00:48:25.280 second American civil war. It's terrifying. I, I still can't quite believe that it happened and

00:48:33.120 that the media wants to move on so quickly, even from this, but I understand why polling wise and,

00:48:37.680 you know, electorally speaking now, Charlie, the news is that they're stuck with Biden.

00:48:43.120 They're going to keep him. You know, they know they can't push him out now because the GOP is

00:48:46.960 completely united and they can't have divisions within the Dem party. I think that's still good

00:48:52.280 for Republicans for team Trump. What do you think? Cause there is some polling coming out now. There

00:48:57.700 was something from morning consult showing that Biden actually went up post assassination attempt

00:49:04.920 of Trump and five 38 is reporting that Joe Biden is ever so slightly more likely to win

00:49:11.880 than Donald Trump. So how do you stand on all of that? Yeah. I mean, it's probably a good thing

00:49:17.720 to run against Joe Biden. Remember, we have not really had an opportunity to take the case against

00:49:21.720 Joe Biden recently. He's had a lot of uninterrupted TV time. I think that we're going to be fine when

00:49:26.740 it comes to that kind of contrast. I still give us a 50 50 shot of winning this election, but let me

00:49:31.760 tell you one thing that we need to be cautious about. And we predicted this on our podcast last week

00:49:35.940 and we are proven correct. You're going to see Joe Biden, the Bernie Sanders populist.

00:49:41.000 He says that he's going to freeze rents at 5% across the country. He's making some very radical

00:49:46.420 left-wing promises. Why? The donors are turning on him. The oligarchs of the Democrat party are

00:49:51.520 turning on him, but the people that aren't turning on him is AOC and Bernie Sanders. They're giving him

00:49:57.200 counsel and the counsel is lean in to the most revolutionary, radical ideas of the Democrat party,

00:50:03.880 which will reinvigorate your base, expand your margins, and be able to have two populists

00:50:09.500 running in this election. That's my biggest concern, Megan, is that Joe Biden starts promising

00:50:14.900 free stuff, starts doing mass amnesty before the Supreme Court can reverse it, starts giving out

00:50:20.120 loan forgiveness before the Supreme Court can reverse it. That is the biggest concern, is that Joe Biden

00:50:25.840 no longer being puppeteered or controlled by his donor masters is a Joe Biden that politically

00:50:33.520 could be far more dangerous than I think people realize.

00:50:38.560 Charlie Kirk, a lot to think about. The battle's not over. Four months to go, and there's a lot

00:50:44.040 yet to be done. Great to see you. We'll see you out in Milwaukee. We're on our way.

00:50:49.480 Thank you. Talk to you soon. Thanks.

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00:52:34.560 It's a big week. Tomorrow, we will be coming to you live from the RNC in Milwaukee. And boy,

00:52:45.200 do we have some great interviews lined up for you. This, as the GOP celebrates and President Biden

00:52:51.800 finds himself on the defensive, trying to re-energize his campaign. He had a testy exchange

00:52:58.600 with Lester Holt of NBC News last night. We'll get to that. But the bigger issue for Team Biden

00:53:04.080 is still voter sentiment. A brand new New York Times poll taken after the debate, but before

00:53:10.500 the president's news conference after NATO last Thursday, and before the assassination attempt

00:53:16.720 against former President Trump, finds the Biden campaign is struggling in two must-win states,

00:53:21.880 at least. In Pennsylvania, Mr. Trump is ahead of Joe Biden, 48 to 45. In Virginia, it's the reverse,

00:53:32.220 President Biden leading former President Trump by three points. But this is a state Mr. Biden won

00:53:36.500 by more than 10 points in 2020. So he's up, but not by much. Joining me now, Hogan Gidley,

00:53:45.200 former national press secretary for the Trump campaign. He's now vice chair at the Center for

00:53:49.080 Election Integrity. And David Plouffe, who's a former White House senior advisor to then President

00:53:53.620 Barack Obama. He now hosts the campaign managers with Kellyanne Conway and David Plouffe. Hogan,

00:54:02.100 David, great to see you both. David, it's been so long. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you.

00:54:06.780 It's great to see you, Megan. Okay, so there's a lot going on today. Can I just ask you, let me kick

00:54:12.720 it off here, Hogan, because the RNC is still underway. We've got another big night tonight.

00:54:15.860 Right. And what I'm seeing in the news right now, people reacting pretty strongly to people like

00:54:21.860 Amber Rose, who got up there. She's a rapper in her own right. She's, I think, best known for being 1.00

00:54:28.040 Kanye West's ex-girlfriend. She's got 24 million followers on Instagram. She is of mixed race,

00:54:37.840 which is relevant to her appearance at this RNC because she got up there and talked about how she

00:54:44.320 used to hate Donald Trump, thinking he was a racist, and then rethought it. I'm gonna get

00:54:50.960 your reaction to her first. It's not 25. And I believe the left-wing propaganda that Donald Trump

00:54:56.240 was a racist. My father said, no, he's not, Amber. What are you talking about? And when I insisted,

00:55:04.320 he said, prove it. So to prove my father wrong, I did my research and looked into all things Donald

00:55:11.700 Trump. I realized Donald Trump and his supporters don't care if you're black, white, gay, or straight.

00:55:18.340 It's all love.

00:55:22.260 So I let go of my fear of judgment, of being misunderstood, of getting attacked by the

00:55:27.500 left, and I put the red hat on, too. Thank you.

00:55:30.940 I want to thank my father, who's in the audience tonight, for opening my eyes. He served over 20

00:55:37.440 years in the U.S. military. Thank you for your service, Dad.

00:55:42.340 Okay, so Hogan, what did you make of it? Because I've seen Van Jones say this was

00:55:47.020 very effective for the Republicans and scares him as a Democrat. But then I've seen commentators

00:55:52.380 like the Daily Wire's Matt Walsh saying, why would you have, he called her, I think, a slut

00:55:56.960 like that up there at the Republican convention? Well, look, first things first, when she came

00:56:03.700 into the hall, there were a lot of people around me who said, now, who is this? They had no idea,

00:56:07.840 despite her 25 million followers, as you just pointed out, still. To be honest, same.

00:56:12.880 Yeah, it's just a million more than me, so that's fine. But listen, she was so dynamic in her

00:56:19.440 conversation with the people in that hall because, like so many out there now, she was on the side of

00:56:26.000 hating Donald Trump. And if there's one thing Donald Trump loves more than a day one supporter,

00:56:31.740 it's a convert. He loves the convert because he can tell that story. And putting her up there was

00:56:37.380 so savvy politically. But I'll tell you, some of the biggest applause lines of the night came from

00:56:42.800 her when she was talking about her switch and being tested by her own father, pushing her to actually

00:56:48.560 defend her position. She couldn't do it. And she went down the rabbit hole and started figuring out

00:56:52.540 what Donald Trump was about. She realized the commentary from the left, the accusations,

00:56:57.400 didn't have any merit at all. And it was a really interesting conversation to have in that hall

00:57:02.840 because, as you know, that doesn't happen much on the Republican side to see someone like that.

00:57:07.320 And while the Matt Walshes and others are offended by it, and I get a lot of the opposition to it,

00:57:12.680 Donald Trump doesn't, will never, he does it now, but will never have more political capital,

00:57:17.560 I think, than he does right now. And working to use that to try and broaden out that tent and get

00:57:23.540 voices on his side that he hasn't had before, that the Republican Party hasn't had before,

00:57:28.120 I think is really savvy.

00:57:30.420 Van Jones, the quote was something to the effect of, she's a bunker buster for the Democrats.

00:57:38.340 That's what he said about her. I'm trying to find the exact language, David, but he was saying

00:57:42.980 that she's a threat because she's appealing to disaffected Democrats who are not in love with

00:57:48.660 Joe Biden and still might be flirting with, I like Trump, but I'm afraid to say it.

00:57:55.100 Right. So having been responsible for conventions in the past, I think sometimes we can,

00:57:59.960 they all seem big in the moment, the speeches, and then the question is,

00:58:03.040 is there any lingering? I always look at it as, is somebody going to vote or behave differently

00:58:07.640 based on an event, in this case, a convention speech? So I think it was a smart pick.

00:58:12.020 I think generally politicians don't break through on social media because most people are going to

00:58:17.400 witness the Republican convention, at least up until Thursday night, through podcasts,

00:58:21.780 through social media, through TikTok and Instagram. So if someone like that is now going to be posting

00:58:26.260 frequently between now and the election day and both messaging, that can be effective. So I think,

00:58:32.140 you know, that was always our challenge in the conventions I was part of is, you know, obviously the

00:58:36.680 networks want to cover the big names, but it's the real people, particularly when it's a,

00:58:40.640 somebody who surprises people. Like I'm surprised that person's at the Republican convention. I'm

00:58:45.800 surprised that person's at the Democratic convention. And to Hogan's point about growth,

00:58:49.620 I mean, that's necessary. You know, Megan, you and I talked a lot back in 16, Donald Trump won that

00:58:54.780 in kind of a black swan event, but he won it with less than 47% of the vote, obviously a terrible 18 for

00:59:01.100 the Republican party. He lost in 20, again, not getting over 47% of the vote and a bad 22 that he was in

00:59:08.020 part responsible for. So I think the question is, no, I don't think J.D. Vance's selection that

00:59:13.720 suggests he's focused on growth, but that has to be where it is. And his poll standing now is

00:59:18.740 stronger than we've seen in the last two elections because there are polls, they could be wrong, but

00:59:23.520 he's at 47, 48, 49, as opposed to 45, 46. So just speaking as a practitioner, particularly when you

00:59:31.120 have some wins behind your back, and I agree with Hogan that he does, that's the moment when you

00:59:35.800 want to capitalize and give people a permission structure. Because, you know, this race, my

00:59:41.400 guess is, will tighten. We'll talk about whether it's Harris or Biden or somebody else. I don't

00:59:45.840 think it'll stay this wide, but Trump has a real lead right now. It's the most significant

00:59:50.360 concern, I think, for Democrats in a presidential race since 1988 to caucus George H.W. Bush going way

00:59:56.440 back. So Trump should do everything he can right now to solidify his gains. There's no question one

01:00:01.160 of his strengths right now is with Black voters, particularly men. He's over 20 percent in most

01:00:07.240 polls. Hispanic voters, he's over 40 in some. Young voters doing better. What's interesting about that

01:00:13.000 is, of course, he's outperforming Republican candidates pretty dramatically. Biden's

01:00:18.800 underperforming Democratic candidates pretty dramatically. So I think for Trump, he's probably most

01:00:24.720 focused on locking in some of those gains with younger voters and voters of color, but probably

01:00:30.060 wants to see some of that transfer to his party as well in the weeks to come. You know, Frank Luntz,

01:00:36.600 longtime focus group runner who's on Fox News a bunch of times and now he's been everywhere.

01:00:42.160 But he does that. He makes his living by polling groups of voters and having them react live to various

01:00:47.540 events. He does both. And he just sent out a post on X, which struck me. He writes,

01:00:52.880 Last night, voters saw a Republican Party that they and I have never seen before.

01:00:57.140 A stage filled with hardworking taxpayers, African-Americans, working women, union members

01:01:01.860 and delegates dancing in the aisles, speeches bashing corporate America and the status quo.

01:01:07.620 We witnessed the realignment of American politics, Trump style. Hashtag GOP convention.

01:01:13.300 Hogan, I think he's exactly right. I mean, it's pretty extraordinary to see those groups as described

01:01:17.000 at the Republican Party versus just four to eight years ago. Well, I guess it would have to be eight

01:01:21.500 years ago. Yeah, there's no question. And even the rhetoric Donald Trump had back in 2016 about

01:01:26.420 people coming across the southern border, so many Republicans in the establishment said it's going

01:01:30.660 to kill him with Hispanics. But we saw gains with Donald Trump over someone like Mitt Romney or even 0.98

01:01:35.840 George W. Bush. And now it's gotten even bigger. People are looking at Donald Trump and realizing

01:01:40.700 regardless of your race, religion, color or creed, the policies are what matters. And when you see

01:01:45.840 exorbitant prices for gas and for groceries, that happened because we had a change and a shift in

01:01:52.960 economic policy from from the Trump administration to the Biden administration. And when you start to

01:01:57.960 see so many different faces and so many different attitudes and beliefs show up at a Republican

01:02:01.900 convention, you realize what Donald Trump has done to build out and broaden out that tent. We were joking.

01:02:08.900 I had some friends we were talking about backstage that we'd never seen anything like this before at a

01:02:12.720 Republican convention. And that's true. I don't think anyone could have done it except for Donald

01:02:17.520 Trump. But he's willing to go into these places. We've seen how many campaign stops in areas that, you

01:02:24.540 know, no Republican would dare try. Never would you see that before. And he goes right in there. And people

01:02:30.140 love him and people hug him. But David's right, too. What does that mean ultimately for getting out the

01:02:35.260 vote, getting those people to turn out to the polls? Because all of this stuff and Donald Trump has had a

01:02:40.280 string of incredible victories. The Republican Party has had a new cycle like I've never seen

01:02:45.660 in my 25 years in politics. So I'm just waiting for some shoe to drop at this point, if I'm being

01:02:49.960 honest. But it continues to kind of snowball. It's that Haley Barber thing. The good get better

01:02:55.020 and the bad gets worse. The good is getting better right now for Donald Trump. And to showcase

01:03:00.200 everything after an assassination attempt, you see a big victory in court. Now we're at this

01:03:05.820 convention. The first night was a home run. And you mentioned single moms who couldn't make 1.00

01:03:09.960 ends meet. A person with on fixed income and he was having trouble with the prices. Amber Rose,

01:03:15.300 you had the head of the Teamsters Union, for heaven's sakes, coming here and talking directly

01:03:19.120 to Republican voters. You're seeing a shift. It really has been impressive. Let's play that because

01:03:25.200 the Teamsters president showed up at the Republican National Convention. And it was very interesting to

01:03:31.760 listen to him talk about Trump. He had the old like, whether you like him or not, kind of precursors

01:03:37.320 to his remarks. But he landed it. It was kind of fun to watch Trump's reaction to watch 24.

01:03:42.940 No other nominee in the race would have invited the Teamsters into this arena.

01:03:49.240 You can have whatever opinion you want. But one thing is clear. President Trump is a candidate

01:03:56.540 who is not afraid of hearing from new, loud and often critical voices. And I think we all can agree

01:04:05.160 whether people like him or they don't like him. In light of what happened to him on Saturday,

01:04:12.100 he has proven to be one tough SOB.

01:04:15.940 And then Trump smiled after he said that last part. David, what did you make as a Democrat of

01:04:25.140 the Teamsters president showing up at the RNC?

01:04:29.320 Well, again, it's a moment. And I think one question will be, what does the Trump campaign

01:04:33.140 do with that? Are they going to advertise using those words? Are they going to try and reach

01:04:36.660 union members, Teamsters and others? We'll see. That is going to be an important battle.

01:04:41.300 You know, I think the service unions, Democrats still dominate in terms of electoral performance.

01:04:48.480 You know, some of the building trades unions, it's more competitive. And so Biden's numbers right now,

01:04:53.460 as challenged or they are, you know, are being held up in part because he's doing really well

01:04:58.440 with seniors, including, you know, white seniors, you know, middle aged voters, including a lot of

01:05:04.200 union members. So that's been a place where you've not seen the erosion that we've seen amongst

01:05:08.420 younger voters and some voters of color. Although, you know, there's plenty of union voters

01:05:12.980 who are voters of color. And, you know, that's going to require a lot of sophisticated data analysis

01:05:18.360 to see what's happening there. But listen, I'm surprised because I've been studying Republican

01:05:22.800 conventions for longer than I'd like to admit. And I don't remember a single one that was really

01:05:27.940 focused on growth, you know, speaking to people who may disagree with you on a lot of issues,

01:05:33.940 really going back, Megan, historically to the 92, you know, convention, which is such a disaster

01:05:39.060 with Pat Buchanan and George H.W. Bush. McCain, I didn't think did a good job of that. Romney did

01:05:44.120 not do a good job of that at 12, although he probably would have been a good candidate to do

01:05:48.700 that. But it was really talking to the base. And Trump, I think, is in a place right now where he's

01:05:54.100 got to worry about turnout for sure. But you're less focused on the base right now. You're more focused

01:05:59.940 on growth. And so any voices that, you know, I think add to that ability to create a permission

01:06:04.800 structure is smart. Now, Democrats will have a response, most importantly, in the campaign.

01:06:09.720 Most of the unions are supporting Biden. Almost all of them are. They're going to spend real money

01:06:13.280 out there, you know, driving a message both for Biden against Trump. So, again, we don't want to

01:06:19.080 overreact, in my humble view, as a practitioner to a moment like that, because we'll see what effect

01:06:25.400 really the question will be is, what does the Trump campaign do with it?

01:06:28.900 You know, that's interesting. That's fascinating to listen to somebody who's actually helped get a

01:06:32.700 guy elected twice. Talk about, OK, this is how significant it is versus could be if it's used

01:06:39.240 properly. Next. Well, it's going to happen next. Randy Weingarten shows up. What's happening? This

01:06:45.900 is an unusual Republican convention. In the meantime, I want to shift a little and talk about Joe Biden,

01:06:52.620 because there was a report by CNN's John King yesterday that I was thought was very interesting

01:06:57.860 about the polls and how it's going over on Team Blue. And I'm trying to find my sheet. Here it is.

01:07:08.040 OK, so it's the headline piece on CNN is private efforts by private efforts to nudge Biden to step

01:07:14.440 aside. Continue. And he's gotten his hands on this. Well, reports about polling memos from,

01:07:23.760 quote, seasoned and respected Democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg, sharing his take that Biden

01:07:29.120 is on track to lose the election and that these polls by Stanley Greenberg, these memos are being

01:07:34.960 shared with top Biden aides and indeed maybe Biden himself as the private efforts to get Biden to step

01:07:42.580 down. Continue reporting that the public calls have quieted since the assassination attempt on on

01:07:48.120 President Trump because the Democratic Party wants to look unified. And it's just the timing feels off

01:07:53.520 now in the wake of that. But that behind the scenes, the effort remains robust. Quote, lose everything

01:07:59.040 is how one Democrat described a polling memo Greenberg sent to Biden's inner circle. Quote,

01:08:03.960 devastating was the one word answer of a second Democrat close to the White House who's familiar

01:08:08.260 with the Greenberg memos saying, look, he he's not going to he's not going to win. And the vast

01:08:14.420 majority of the party does not see him as up to serving for more years. So do you know this guy,

01:08:19.320 Stanley Greenberg, David? And what do you make of this report? I do. If I recall, Stan was pretty

01:08:25.340 critical of Barack Obama and his election prospects. So I take it with a grain of salt.

01:08:30.240 That being said, as a Democrat, obviously, you don't like where the race is right now.

01:08:36.180 And I don't think we should engage in something that I think we've seen Republicans,

01:08:40.100 not Hogan and Megan, you guys are the exception, but engage in, you know, cherry picking polls,

01:08:46.160 I think on balance, the public polls that are, I think, trustworthy, and then certainly the private

01:08:52.240 polls that have been covered. And I certainly see some are concerning. Now, when I talked to

01:08:57.240 Kellyanne Conway, she'll be the first person to tell you and Kellyanne knows this electorate quite

01:09:01.680 well, Joe Biden could still win. We had Jason Miller from the Trump campaign on our podcast

01:09:05.800 a couple of weeks ago. He said the same thing. Why is that? Well, it's because we live in a

01:09:10.900 divided country and Donald Trump is still a challenged political figure, even though he has

01:09:16.340 had a good few weeks here politically, the debate really, I think, changing the race most dramatically

01:09:22.140 in the near term. But, you know, he still has a pretty low ceiling. That being said, I think what

01:09:28.380 you're seeing is Democratic candidates for the Senate, Democratic candidates for the House,

01:09:33.320 other folks running for state and local office, have seen erosion at the top of the ticket.

01:09:38.600 Now, do I think that Joe Biden is going to lose Pennsylvania by five to seven? I don't believe

01:09:44.360 that. I think it will be closer than that. But at the end of the day, the deficit here is real. And

01:09:49.580 it's not just the head to head. As you know, his approval rating is in the 30s, anywhere from 70 to 80%

01:09:55.420 of the public's concerned about his fitness for office. We don't have a lot of energy for young 0.99

01:09:59.320 people. This doesn't bring me any joy in saying this, but I've always believed in life. But

01:10:03.800 certainly in politics, you know, if you don't face the truth and admit where you are, it's hard to

01:10:12.240 smartly course correct. So I think that debate will continue. I agree with you. It probably settles

01:10:17.680 down this week publicly, maybe through Thursday. I think you'll then see more people come out. I mean,

01:10:22.360 right now, I think Joe Biden is the odds on favorite to be the nominee. There'll still be folks raising

01:10:27.760 questions. So we'll ultimately see. And the question for me is if Biden is the nominee,

01:10:32.140 the thing that stresses me out is the calendar, as it always did when I used to run campaigns.

01:10:38.080 And by the way, people start voting in battleground states in about 80 days.

01:10:41.980 So you don't have to November 5th. You got to change the structure of the race between now and 0.90

01:10:48.020 early October, and you can't waste a day. And so I think the Lester Hold interview last night,

01:10:52.840 you know, Biden had some good moments. But I think when he was talking about Lester not

01:10:57.740 asking him questions about issues and things, listen, every candidate gets frustrated by the

01:11:02.440 press. Donald Trump certainly gets frustrated by the press. But a good candidate takes a question,

01:11:07.160 can respectfully answer the question, and then move it to the message you want to drive.

01:11:11.300 And right now, we're stuck in this dynamic where I think Joe Biden's on the defensive.

01:11:16.740 Most incumbents around the world, I don't care who you are in today's politics, cannot win a

01:11:22.800 referendum. You've got to turn it into a choice and a searing choice. Joe Biden failed to do that

01:11:28.020 in the debate. A little bit better, I thought, in his press conference last week. Last night in the

01:11:31.860 interview, I didn't think great. So that's the question is, and I think Democrats are continuing

01:11:35.640 to wrestle. And I'll just end here, Megan. As most, you know, weighted decisions in life are,

01:11:41.000 it's not like there's a good option and a bad option. You know, there's risk with change. So if Joe

01:11:45.480 Biden were to step down, let's say Kamala Harris is the nominee or someone else, I think she would be the 0.98

01:11:49.980 odds on favor to replace him. There's no guarantee. The one thing we learn every presidential cycle,

01:11:54.560 you've covered a lot of them, is there's candidates that look on paper like they will walk into the

01:11:59.560 White House, Ron DeSantis being the latest example. And this presidential stage chews people up. Very

01:12:05.820 few people come out stronger.

01:12:07.620 Jeb Bush.

01:12:08.620 Right. I mean, it's just the graveyard is littered, Democratic and Republican. So we'll see. But the

01:12:14.860 one thing I'd say is a different Democratic candidate, you know, may not do as well with

01:12:19.740 seniors as Joe Biden. And that's a big issue. They may not do as well in some working class areas.

01:12:24.420 So there's risk. But again, there's a delta right now between Democrats running for Senate

01:12:29.200 and Joe Biden with younger voters, with Black voters, Hispanic voters. So I think that's what

01:12:33.960 a lot of Democrats are wrestling with is, is that something that gets better if we had a different

01:12:38.720 candidate? But at the end of the day, only one person with the voting shares here,

01:12:42.600 one. And it's Joe Biden.

01:12:46.160 Hogan, David mentions Joe Biden with Lester Holt last night and the answer where he kind of got

01:12:51.140 all over Lester and tried to dodge on his own debate performance and instead turn it around

01:12:55.100 on the media for not making that debate about Trump. Here's that soundbite watch.

01:13:03.580 In your last TV interview, you were asked if you had watched the debate. Your answer was,

01:13:08.160 I don't think so. No. Have you since seen it?

01:13:11.040 I've seen pieces of it. I've not watched the whole debate.

01:13:13.800 Are you seeing what they saw, which was moments of, frankly, that appeared to be, you appeared

01:13:19.740 to be confused?

01:13:21.580 Lester, look, why don't you guys ever talk about the 18 to 28 lies he told?

01:13:28.120 Where are you on this? Why didn't the press ever talk about that?

01:13:32.580 I just asked the question because the idea that you may or may not have seen what some of these

01:13:38.980 other folks have seen. You're not on the same. I'd have to see. I was there.

01:13:45.080 I'd have to see it. I was there. By the way, seriously, you won't answer the question,

01:13:49.720 but why didn't the press talk about all the lies he told? I haven't heard anything about that.

01:13:53.500 We have reported many of the issues that came up during that debate.

01:13:56.780 No, you haven't.

01:13:57.380 We'll provide you with them.

01:13:58.800 God love you.

01:13:59.740 Okay.

01:14:00.000 Here's part of the problem with that, Hogan, as I see it. Not only is it obviously a dodge,

01:14:04.720 but you can't attack Lester Holt because Lester Holt is not a hateable figure. He's a sweet guy.

01:14:10.680 You know, trust me, even I had a very negative experience at NBC, but not with that guy. He

01:14:14.240 was actually very sweet to me the whole time. Like you can't make a villain out of him. That's not

01:14:18.700 going to be an option for you when you're on the ropes like Joe Biden was there. And he says,

01:14:22.620 you know, I don't have to watch it. I was in it. The question that he's asked was,

01:14:26.180 did you watch it? That's what Stephanopoulos asked him. And he said, I, he, he wasn't sure.

01:14:32.000 So it's now he's landed on, I didn't have to watch it. I was there, but you couldn't even remember

01:14:37.600 days after whether you'd seen it. Anyway, what did you make of it?

01:14:41.440 Well, so many things wrong with that, obviously. Uh, listen to watch someone of the left,

01:14:48.180 like Joe Biden, complain about the media is so rich on its face. The left has been coddled by

01:14:56.120 the mainstream media, the press, the legacy media, whatever you want to call them,

01:15:00.480 especially Joe Biden. I mean, the guy's been in office for half of a century.

01:15:04.140 They've been carrying his water that entire time. They've been covering up for his mistakes,

01:15:09.040 his problems, his bad policies for the last four years. And that problem on the debate stage was

01:15:15.280 now the veneer was all the American people saw it with their own eyes and the press kind of had to

01:15:19.640 pretend as though they didn't know anything about it. And, and that this is all new information for

01:15:24.260 them when it obviously wasn't. And so to watch Joe Biden attack someone like Lester Holt, and you

01:15:29.280 said, yes, he's a very likable figure. I was with him this week, a more sweet man. There is not on

01:15:34.860 this planet. And, and, and Joe Biden couldn't say, Hey, I called those things out on stage. Cause he

01:15:40.880 didn't. The issue in that debate was the way Joe Biden looked the way he responded, the slack jaw,

01:15:47.020 the staring off into the distance that has long been his problem, but it was on the,

01:15:51.200 on the main stage for all the world to see. And you talked about falling off that presidential

01:15:56.280 stage. Yes. No lights burn hotter. No stage is bigger than that of the presidential. And in all

01:16:01.880 deference to my good friend, Rick Perry, you can oops yourself off that stage in a hurry. There's a

01:16:06.580 long way to go though, between now and the election. David's absolutely right. A lot is going to change.

01:16:11.620 There will be ebbs and flows, of course, but moments like this for Joe Biden do not help him.

01:16:17.140 Yes. He had some flubs in here. Yes. He had some mistakes. We know he's frail. We know he's feeble.

01:16:22.420 We know he's fragile. That to me is not really the issue because while the American people see that

01:16:28.380 they're more concerned about how his policies have impacted their lives and how their own economies

01:16:32.960 are bad because of him. And when he goes up on a, on a friendly like George Stephanopoulos

01:16:37.900 or like Lester Holt and botches that simple task, 93% of the news coverage on Donald Trump by every

01:16:45.340 available measure and every, uh, uh, available data point was negative 93%. And this guy has one bad

01:16:52.860 cycle and he's complaining about it. I just find that to be so rich. And one more thing.

01:16:57.620 Totally brought upon himself that, you know, that was not a media generated controversy.

01:17:01.580 Yes. It's, it's his fault. And I'll say this because as we look at this convention and I'm

01:17:06.260 here and people are walking by. So if you hear something, I'm sorry, they're just loud and they're

01:17:09.420 excited. But watching Republicans try to expand and grow this tent is fascinating because we're in July.

01:17:16.600 Joe Biden is still trying to shore up his base. He's still going to black churches and trying to say,

01:17:21.560 remember me, I'm Joe Biden. It's July. People will start voting in a few months. And so when he has

01:17:27.620 opportunities to try and turn the narrative, when he has an opportunity to try and say, no, I promise

01:17:32.380 I'm a steady hand. I can make this country better. I can make your life better. He doesn't do it.

01:17:37.300 He complains. And it is a serious issue, not just for Joe Biden, but for the Democrats writ large.

01:17:43.500 80 days. That is the phrase I'm going to be taking away with me today. 80 days. It's such a short

01:17:49.280 window to turn an aircraft carrier around if we believe that, you know, I'm mildly interested in

01:17:55.880 these national polls, but I'm much more interested in the likely voters in the battleground states,

01:17:59.700 which have been consistently strong for President Trump. And I have yet to see that changing,

01:18:04.580 especially in the blue wall states in, you know, Michigan and Wisconsin, Minnesota, that whole region

01:18:12.380 there. And then Pennsylvania, where, you know, J.D. Vance is from. That's basically his territory.

01:18:18.000 Ohio is right next to Pennsylvania. That's where he grew up. And that's another play that's going to

01:18:22.420 work well there, that white working class in those states. I think they're going to respond well to

01:18:26.200 J.D. And I know the media is jumping all over him about, oh, you know, you didn't like Trump.

01:18:30.520 He said terrible things about Trump, which he did for sure. He did not like Trump. But his life story,

01:18:35.900 I think, is a big part of why he was chosen. It's absolutely inspirational. I think all those people,

01:18:41.540 once they hear that, are going to be very moved, as I was by J.D. Vance. He's he's an inspirational

01:18:48.480 figure. Now, the media, let's see if they let that through. But I want to stand on Joe Biden for a minute.

01:18:53.380 So here's the thing. There's a bit of a quandary right now for the Democrats, David, because

01:18:57.140 forgive me for putting it this way, but because of the assassination attempt, because they want to

01:19:03.820 continue slugging Donald Trump as hard as humanly possible. But it's a little hard because the

01:19:12.920 nation's sympathies are with him at the moment. We all saw what happened on Saturday. I think most

01:19:17.580 humans were inspired by the way he handled it. And then you had Joe Biden come out in the White

01:19:22.460 House and say, we've got to lower the temperature, lower the temperature. So but then he goes on with

01:19:26.180 Lester and it didn't seem like a lowering of the temperature moment. He brought up a lot of tropes

01:19:32.100 about Donald Trump that have been debunked. So you tell me what they're supposed to do with this.

01:19:37.300 Let's let's watch a little bit of that. There's there's no place at all for violence

01:19:44.700 in politics in America. None. Zero. For example, you know, the January 6th, you know, the attack

01:19:52.340 on the Capitol. I watched what happened in Charlottesville, Virginia. He said they're very fine

01:19:56.400 people on both sides. But have you taken a step back and done a little soul searching

01:20:01.960 on things that you may have said that could incite people who are not balanced?

01:20:07.480 My my my opponent is engaged in that rhetoric. He talks about to be a bloodbath if he loses,

01:20:12.760 suspend the sentences of all those who were arrested and sentenced to go to jail because

01:20:18.400 of what happened in the Capitol. This doesn't sound like you're you're turning down the heat,

01:20:22.700 though. You've talked about. No, no, no, no. Look, when I'm turning down, we have to stop

01:20:27.380 the whole notion that there are certain things that are contrary to our our democracy that

01:20:35.760 we're for. So so what what can you and what will you do at least things you can control

01:20:41.820 to lower down the temperature, the rhetoric out there?

01:20:46.960 Continue to talk about the things that matter to the American public. It matters whether or

01:20:52.560 not you accept the outcome of elections. It matters whether or not you, for example,

01:20:58.560 talk about how you're going to deal with the border instead of talking about people as being

01:21:03.000 vermin. And I mean, those things matter. That's the kind of language that is inflammatory.

01:21:11.700 So, I mean, just for the record, the fine people thing has been debunked over and over and over,

01:21:15.440 including by left wing fact checkers. That's not what Trump said. The bloodbath thing was a comment

01:21:20.940 made by Trump in the economic context where he's talking about how China wants to take advantage of

01:21:25.380 us by building plants in Mexico and hurting American workers and that if they if they think 0.75

01:21:30.440 they're going to get away with that, they're not. And if he's voted in, it'll be a bloodbath for the

01:21:35.600 economy. He was obviously talking about the automobile industry and the tariffs that he was going to

01:21:39.220 bring in. Biden wouldn't. But he continues to misuse those things. I don't know that the average

01:21:43.800 American knows that. I don't know. What do you make of this pickle of which I speak?

01:21:47.560 Well, Megan, I'm sorry to disagree with you on your program, but listen, you only have to

01:21:52.820 you know, basically an eight year old's Google search skills to see really for the last I mean,

01:21:58.520 even going back to the 80s with Donald Trump and some of the things he did in New York. But

01:22:01.660 his rise has really been fueled by, you know, personal attacks, kind of embrace of violence.

01:22:07.420 I remember back in 2020, there were some folks in Texas trying to run the Biden campaign

01:22:11.860 bus off the road and Trump tweeted, God love Texas. I mean, this is someone comfortable with

01:22:17.300 you know, kind of visuals of violence, you know, attacking immigrants, attacking Muslims. So,

01:22:24.060 you know, it's a little rich for me. But but I think where Trump would like to turn the race,

01:22:29.000 certainly his team is, is basically, hey, we need to be more unified. So stop attacking me. That's

01:22:33.900 how he'll define unity. And I think Democrats, you know, you want criticisms and attacks in contrast to

01:22:40.820 be within bounds. But, you know, on things like, should we have a peaceful transfer of power?

01:22:45.980 Should the person who like if Joe Biden loses this election, he will say I lost the election.

01:22:51.300 He'll call Donald Trump and concede to him and cooperate with the transition. Donald Trump didn't

01:22:56.140 do that in 20. And he said he likely wouldn't do it this time. J.D. Vance's vice president said,

01:23:00.720 unlike Mike Pence, he would have not done his constitutional duty. So these are real issues. And I will tell you

01:23:06.540 in the research I've seen, yes, inflation is an important issue. Health care, by the way, a place where

01:23:12.080 Democrats have a large advantage is an important issue. Foreign policy, immigration. But the notion of

01:23:18.400 basically the person who gets the most votes shouldn't win. If you think about the swing voters and when I

01:23:24.820 say swing voters, you know, this election is a little bit different. You've got the traditional suburban

01:23:29.240 women who are swing voters. You've got some exurban men and women that are swing voters a little bit older. 0.97

01:23:34.080 You also have swing voters who are in their 20s and early 30s who are of color. But that is something that's

01:23:39.400 problematic. So I think what Biden has to do and the Democrats have to do is, you know, be within bounds. But

01:23:45.000 listen, one thing that has struck me just as an observer of information for the last couple of decades is how

01:23:50.500 quickly these major events and they're important and they still, you know, deserve a lot of coverage. And

01:23:57.040 obviously, we want to know exactly what happened with the shooter. You know, I'm not sure by this weekend is

01:24:01.040 Donald Trump going to be out there, you know, basically giving a peace and love speech. I highly

01:24:05.320 doubt it. So I think this election will remain spirited. I hope everybody who's got a microphone,

01:24:11.180 particularly elected officials in those seeking office, take a beat to say, OK, we can disagree

01:24:16.520 about issues without perhaps maligning people's motives to the extent that that might have been

01:24:23.040 the case pre-Saturday. But I think this is going to be a fierce debate. And I do think what worries me,

01:24:27.380 you're right. J.D. Vance, I think, is a talented communicator, obviously a very good writer. I do

01:24:33.140 think that he is now the heir apparent to Donald Trump. Things he has said about the Constitution,

01:24:39.460 about abiding by election results, I think, are deeply concerning, not just to people like me,

01:24:44.060 but to voters. So that'll be interesting. But I would just say this as a practitioner,

01:24:48.180 the vice presidential candidate really matters very, very little unless you make a massive mistake.

01:24:54.540 It is. It's the thing that the media right, left, center spends a lot of time on. And it's

01:24:59.800 incredibly important from the governing standpoint. And by the way, Donald Trump's 78. So it could be

01:25:05.320 from an actuarial standpoint, his nominee, J.D. Vance, becomes president. So it's important to kick

01:25:09.860 the tires. But in terms of the campaign, it's very much about the two contenders at the top of the

01:25:14.780 ticket, in this case, actually more than two, because you've got third party candidates. And I would just

01:25:18.860 say that's, Megan, which is what's the win number in the state you mentioned, Pennsylvania,

01:25:23.160 Michigan. It's not going to be 50. And that's what concerns me as a Democrat, is if Trump really

01:25:29.460 is at 47, 48, 49, that could be enough to win. So Joe Biden has to get him back down

01:25:35.900 to 44 to 46 to have the chance of winning.

01:25:40.240 But that's such a, but Hogan, the thing is, and he, look, there's no question Trump has said

01:25:45.160 incendiary things too, and his supporters have too, but Trump is the one who got shot in the face.

01:25:49.040 You know, I mean, that's just the reality of the situation. And as we go forward now,

01:25:55.500 you know, Joe Biden says he's going to be kinder and gentler and all that, or lower the temperature,

01:25:59.220 but it was literally days before the assassination attempt that he was out there calling Trump a

01:26:02.860 racist. Sorry, rapist, rapist. I'm sure he's calling him a racist too, but rapist, which is

01:26:09.540 about as incendiary as one can get. So I do still think he's not going to get away with that. Like

01:26:14.640 there, there will be media calling some attention to him going to places like that.

01:26:19.380 I sure hope so, because they have it in the past. Listen, milquetoast Mitt Romney,

01:26:23.860 Joe Biden said would put black people back in chains. He said Mitt Romney was going to re-enslave

01:26:29.440 black people. So this guy is not some, you know, soft handed, genteel gentleman. He is a tough,

01:26:35.640 bare knuckle political brawler and says stuff all the time. Quite frankly, it isn't true.

01:26:39.880 You just talked about this showing the clip from Lester where he says, no, basically look,

01:26:45.260 Trump, he's Hitler. He's a racist Charlottesville. He said, there's going to be a bloodbath. There's

01:26:50.900 going to be fighting. He incited a riot, but we need to bring the temperature down guys.

01:26:54.920 You just did. Had he said, listen, everyone needs to bring the temperature down. Starting with me,

01:27:00.800 I'm going to do it. I'm going to be the leader here on top of that. I'm going to make sure the

01:27:03.660 president of the United States, former president Donald Trump has a lot of secret service.

01:27:06.580 I'm going to make sure JFK has it as well. It would be more. RFK, RFK. Correct. It would be more.

01:27:14.780 It would be better for the American people to see that kind of Joe Biden, but that's not who he is.

01:27:20.260 And the left has a real problem here because for so long they've been saying Donald Trump,

01:27:24.800 Republicans, we're a threat to democracy. We're Hitler. We're racist, all these things.

01:27:29.920 But now if Joe Biden is going to abide by his own standard, which is bringing down the rhetoric,

01:27:35.700 what does he have to run on? All he does is go around saying that the right is full of racists

01:27:42.240 that are threats to our very democracy. If he's going to lower the temperature,

01:27:45.560 he's got to be the Larry Hagman character in primary colors. You actually have to go out there

01:27:51.560 and have the measured tone. And this is all ignoring the thing that I think many of us can't

01:27:56.980 get past. And it's not just that Joe Biden is old. It's that he does not appear to be all there.

01:28:01.560 He cannot put two sentences together. You see it every time. It's like, oh, like watching

01:28:07.880 the tightrope walker. Like, oh, this is scary. There was another moment with Lester just last

01:28:12.740 night. I'll play it. It's short.

01:28:14.420 What happens if you have another episode like we saw during the debate?

01:28:19.920 What happens if you have another performance on that part, on that level?

01:28:26.220 I don't plan on having another forest on that level. All right.

01:28:33.740 I have to tell you, my heart goes out to Lester. So awkward, uncomfortable. Happens every day when

01:28:38.340 he sits, right? So whether it's Stephanopoulos or Lester or these other interviews, he gave one to

01:28:44.040 another gentleman. There was a very awkward exchange about Zionism. We could go on, although we can't

01:28:49.120 right this second because we have to take a break. All right, we'll be right back. Hogan and David stay

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01:29:51.740 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open,

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01:30:50.280 Happy birthday to you. Make a wish. Oh, my God. Don't miss Trump next time.

01:31:08.200 Speaking of divisive rhetoric, that was a big example. Yesterday, when that video went viral,

01:31:14.540 people believed, and we said, that it was actor Jack Black. Turns out Black wasn't the one who made

01:31:20.980 the actual comment, don't miss next time. He was standing next to a bandmate who said that,

01:31:27.080 and that bandmate was a guy by the name of Kyle Gass. In response to the controversy,

01:31:32.100 and you can hear Black did not fix or attempt to in the moment, Black released a statement after the

01:31:38.720 fact, reading in part, I was blindsided by what was said. I would never condone hate speech or

01:31:43.520 encourage political violence in any form. Mr. Black then said he's made the decision to put

01:31:47.420 the band's upcoming tour on hold. Good call. Back with me now, Hogan Gidley and David Plouffe.

01:31:54.420 You know, you spend two minutes on TikTok or Insta or whatever, and you're going to see a lot of

01:31:57.660 people saying exactly what that bandmate said. Why'd you miss? Take better shooting lessons.

01:32:03.240 You know, it's just, it's so disheartening. It's kind of depressing, to be honest.

01:32:07.880 There is something interesting happening in the media, though, over at MSNBC. And Hogan,

01:32:12.520 I wanted to start with you on this one. So Joe Scarborough's show was pulled yesterday morning,

01:32:16.500 and NBC had told Scarborough and the world that that was because they were going to stay in rolling

01:32:22.380 breaking news coverage, which is the thing you do. We used to call it rolling thunder over at Fox

01:32:26.780 News. You just stay in rolling thunder where there's breaking news and, you know, all bets are off on

01:32:30.560 what the previously scheduled programs were. And they claimed that Scarborough had agreed to it,

01:32:35.220 along with his wife and co-host, Mika. Now today, we hear something very different,

01:32:39.340 because what happened after Scarborough was they went back to their normal lineup,

01:32:42.960 which, you know, makes clear they pulled just morning Joe, and for a reason. And here was

01:32:50.780 an extraordinary moment on his show this morning.

01:32:53.000 We were told in no uncertain terms on Sunday evening that there was going to be one news feed across all

01:33:03.980 NBC news channels yesterday. The Today Show would be Lester Holt, other people that you worked with

01:33:11.500 on Sunday, and that that was going to be one news feed across all NBC news channels. That did not

01:33:17.620 happen. We don't know why that didn't happen. Our team was not given a good answer as to why that

01:33:25.680 didn't happen, but it didn't happen. We were very surprised. We were very disappointed. And if we

01:33:31.360 had known that there wasn't going to be the one news feed from NBC news across all NBC news channels,

01:33:37.280 Willie, we obviously would have been in yesterday morning. Let me just say,

01:33:41.220 we next time we're told there's going to be a news feed replacing us,

01:33:45.060 we will be in our chairs. We'll be sitting here. Yeah. And the news feed will be us,

01:33:49.080 or they can get somebody else to host the show. Oh my God. I have secondhand embarrassment for how

01:33:56.340 awkward that was. AF, as the kids would say. So Hogan, what do you make of MSNBC basically

01:34:02.080 admitting they've got a host on in the morning who is so incendiary he can't be trusted to take air

01:34:07.220 the day and a half after a presidential assassination attempt? And following, of course,

01:34:13.620 the Ronald McDaniel debacle as well, this is not obviously a good look for MSNBC. And what you're

01:34:19.080 hearing kind of is that peek behind the curtain where, why did they really do this? And then all

01:34:23.600 these kind of leaks start coming out that they were afraid someone on that set was going to say

01:34:27.580 something about that assassination attempt that would make it appear as though the network or

01:34:34.060 Morning Joe itself condoned an assassination. That tells you a lot about what you need to know as it

01:34:41.340 relates to the mainstream media. And it also tells you a lot as it relates to bringing down that

01:34:46.500 rhetoric that Joe Biden is talking about. And while both sides are going to say, no, you do it. No,

01:34:50.560 you do it. There are problems in the media. There are problems with politicians who make claims all the

01:34:56.740 time that are way over the top and that obviously bring the temperature to a point that is set to boil

01:35:03.060 over at any moment. But this particular instance, I think, at MSNBC kind of encapsulates so many of the

01:35:09.540 complaints on our side of the aisle that say, wait, in a time where a former president was almost

01:35:15.260 shot through the head and killed on national television, you chose to pull your number one

01:35:20.920 rated show because you were afraid the cat would be let out of the bag. I think it's a really bad

01:35:26.380 look. And I think it is a very impactful, important statement about the overall tone and tenor of the

01:35:33.660 mainstream media. David Plouffe, if Joe Scarborough really does walk from that role, they should hire

01:35:40.800 you tomorrow. Who's who could do that show in his sleep, honestly, and with insightful analysis from

01:35:48.900 somebody who's actually been in the business of getting presidents elected. I think we should all

01:35:53.740 call their bluff and then you should slide right in. Well, that's kind of I'd have to get up too early.

01:35:59.620 And listen, that's I'm an MSNBC contributor. I don't have any visibility into the decision. By the

01:36:06.680 way, a decision to say we're just going to have one feed. You know, I could support that. Right.

01:36:12.160 You kind of want to have we do it sometimes, but you do it sometime. It's people who are, you know,

01:36:18.220 you know, have good sources and law enforcement. You've got people on the ground in Pennsylvania.

01:36:22.400 So I think the challenge here was, of course, it wasn't one feed. It was just one program. And perhaps

01:36:27.640 that they changed their mind as the day went on. That wasn't communicated. But you've got to trust

01:36:31.540 your talent. That's something I've learned in any kind of organization. You've got to trust your

01:36:36.200 talent. I will say this back to our previous discussion about, you know, civility and what's

01:36:42.480 in balance. Like as a political practitioner, I think what the Trump campaign likely will do is very

01:36:48.340 transparent to me, very cynical, which is they want to silence arguments against Trump because in the

01:36:55.800 research I've seen, they heard him. Project 2025 is interesting. That's by the way, Donald Trump.

01:37:00.480 I mean, Hogan knows him well, doesn't tend to run away from things. He's running away from that

01:37:04.560 like Hussein Bolt because he realizes the elements of it, which I think will make up the blueprint for

01:37:09.700 the Trump second term, you know, are very, very anathema to voters. I think, you know, his position

01:37:16.180 on health care, getting rid of the Affordable Care Act, 20 million plus people losing health care.

01:37:19.900 There's real challenges. Now, those tend to be issues. I do think, you know, respecting the results of

01:37:24.640 election. That's not something we should shy away from talking, even post assassination attempt.

01:37:29.820 But I think you'll see that an effort from the Trump campaign and other voices to say, hey,

01:37:34.580 you shouldn't be criticizing this guy. And again, my guess is we'll see what Trump's speech is

01:37:38.980 Thursday. By the way, if Trump, I'd be curious, you know, Hogan, your view on this, like if Trump

01:37:44.280 were to say Thursday night, listen, I've reflected on this. I can't believe I lost to Joe Biden. I still

01:37:50.860 can't believe it. But you know what? He won the election. That's why I'm running to defeat him.

01:37:55.680 I think I'll defeat him. What that would do is swing voters. And listen, Trump has the base. He

01:38:01.920 can say anything. That's not going to happen. I know, Hogan. Do you disagree with me?

01:38:08.040 He doesn't disagree with me. Practitioner. Of course, he's not. But he should. Because if you're

01:38:13.000 of course, but we've all been saying things about Trump should for eight, nine years and he doesn't

01:38:17.480 listen to us. But my point is, Megan, if you're in a window where you might have a permission

01:38:22.700 struck through the voters that previously weren't available to you. OK, what I used to write. I get

01:38:27.380 it. I get it. But if he were in that state of mind, we'd be talking about vice presidential

01:38:31.100 candidate Glenn Youngkin, Nikki Haley or Doug Burgum. He's definitely not, I think. Right. And

01:38:37.020 that's taking my sorry to rush you out, but I want to play the soundbite. We just got it on tape.

01:38:40.740 Charlie Kirk referenced it earlier. And the head of the Secret Service, Kim Cheadle,

01:38:44.340 did give an interview to ABC in which she did make a remarkable explanation for why they didn't

01:38:51.040 have snipers on the rooftop that was right there, 150 yards or less away from Trump.

01:38:57.980 Listen to the sloped roof, roof excuse. Roof have been secure, period.

01:39:04.440 That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there's a safety

01:39:10.520 factor that would be considered there that we wouldn't want to put somebody up on a sloped

01:39:14.320 roof. And so, you know, the decision was made to secure the building from inside.

01:39:21.100 I mean, oh, my God. That's just like that's why we're going to have weeks and months of hearings

01:39:26.960 now. Like I don't I there are many people who think that this was a conscious decision.

01:39:32.940 The Secret Service, somebody hated Trump. I am not one of those people.

01:39:35.620 But that level of incompetence is why people are scratching their heads. They don't understand

01:39:42.060 that. Well, I worked with the men and women of the Secret Service for years in the White House,

01:39:46.200 as you know, and more brave people. I mean, I was humbled by their performances every single day

01:39:51.500 when someone stormed the Treasury. They came in and got staff, too. I mean, they're everywhere all the

01:39:56.040 time. But there's no question. This is a systemic failure by the Secret Service at this point.

01:40:01.500 If there aren't some serious questions asked by journalists, if there aren't some serious questions

01:40:05.560 asked by Joe Biden, his FBI and others, I don't know that we're ever going to get to the bottom

01:40:09.940 of this. But I can say what's interesting was as soon as this happened, I thought to myself,

01:40:14.600 it didn't seem right to me right off the bat. And typically in years past, I would even say pre-Trump,

01:40:19.940 this thing may have gone on for months without anyone really offering too many questions

01:40:23.560 substantively. Within minutes, people were like, no, hold on a second. How does this happen?

01:40:28.540 Why was the guy this close? How come these other people with the video we shot, these other snipers

01:40:33.320 looked like they had the guy in his sights, but they let him fire the gun? All of these things

01:40:37.620 kind of come up and they bubble to the surface. And it really does go to kind of a bigger concern

01:40:43.020 that this rhetoric is really hot. And this does boil over in these ways. An attempt of an

01:40:50.180 assassination on a political person is so unforgivable in today's world. You cannot do that

01:40:58.300 to watch Donald Trump though, go down, stand up with blood on his face and put his fist in the

01:41:04.880 air and yell, fight, fight, fight to let the American people know he was okay. That is going

01:41:09.320 to be a statue. That is going to be a t-shirt. That is going to be a poster. That to me is one of the

01:41:14.060 most iconic images this country seen really since George Bush took that megaphone at 9-11 saying the

01:41:21.160 whole country, the whole country hears you and the world's going to hear us soon. The people who tore

01:41:24.840 these buildings down really, really impactful. Thank God he was okay. Only wish we could say

01:41:30.400 the same for all of the attendees and a prayer to those who are still suffering. I got to run

01:41:35.520 apologies guys. I'm up against the clock. All the best to you both. Hogan, great to see you again,

01:41:39.820 David. Please come back and we'll see you soon in Milwaukee ourselves. Tomorrow on the show,

01:41:44.480 we've got Ruthless, we've got Vivek Ramaswamy, and we've got Elise Stefanik. The fun begins in Milwaukee.

01:41:50.760 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 16, 2024

Trump's Compelling VP Pick of J.D. Vance, and Biden Refuses to Lower the Temperature, with Charlie Kirk, Hogan Gidley, and David Plouffe ｜ Ep. 839

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