The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump's Huge Win, Haley Drops Out, and MSNBC Melts Down, with Vivek Ramaswamy and Rich Lowry

00:00:00.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.320 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. A massive news day and we are

00:00:16.980 going to try our best to get it all jam-packed into today's show for you. Former South Carolina

00:00:22.620 Governor Nikki Haley officially bows out of the GOP presidential race. She was still running.

00:00:28.360 We didn't talk about it a lot. She wasn't really putting points on the board. She won

00:00:33.360 D.C. and yesterday she won Vermont. But it was obvious that this was over for her long before

00:00:40.880 she actually made it official this morning. And guess who's here to discuss it? Her campaign trail

00:00:46.400 nemesis, Vivek Ramaswamy. He comes on live in just a bit. Plus, MSNBC's top anchors mocking voters who,

00:00:55.660 these losers who are worried about illegal immigration. Let me tell you that Rachel

00:01:02.360 Maddow with her $30 million a year for one hour of work a week, she doesn't have to worry about

00:01:11.680 the illegals the way you losers do. And she thinks it's funny that you're so afraid. Not just her,

00:01:17.740 but her millionaire colleagues, Joy Reid and Jen Psaki, they also think your fear is funny.

00:01:24.880 You amuse them with your fright for your children, maybe on college campuses trying to get fit so they

00:01:32.000 can go out and have a nursing career and have some fear about illegals. You're so scared. You're so weak.

00:01:39.340 You're so weak. That's MSNBC. As they like to say in their motto, this is who we are. We'll get to it

00:01:45.740 a lot today. And Ashley Merchant, defendant Michael Roman's attorney in the Georgia case against Trump,

00:01:55.280 testifies herself before a Georgia State Senate committee that's investigating Fulton County

00:02:01.120 District Attorney Fannie Willis. And while there was actually a lot of interesting stuff that just

00:02:05.260 happened in that hearing, it started off slow, and then it got spicy. And we're going to bring you

00:02:10.440 a second episode today just on that. We thought we'd squeeze it into the back of this show, but there's

00:02:14.920 too much. So it's a packed day. We've got a packed lineup. And we begin today with Rich Lowry, editor in

00:02:22.640 chief of National Review. Rich, great to have you back. So it's official. Nikki's out. She left. She did not

00:02:32.300 actually endorse Trump, but she did mention him. Play a little bit of that here in SOT 1.

00:02:38.480 I congratulate him and wish him well. I wish anyone well who would be America's president.

00:02:45.660 Our country is too precious to let our differences divide us. I have always been a conservative Republican

00:02:53.820 and always supported the Republican nominee. But on this question, as she did on so many others,

00:03:02.360 Margaret Thatcher provided some good advice when she said, quote, never just follow the crowd.

00:03:09.920 Always make up your own mind. It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and

00:03:16.980 beyond it who did not support it. And just a nit, Rich, it's it's as somebody who reads a lot of

00:03:24.280 prompter and has for, you know, the past 20 years, there really is sort of an art form to it. And she

00:03:29.700 doesn't have it. You know, every sentence can't sound like you're addressing a third grade class.

00:03:40.280 As Margaret Thatcher said, this is the way it should be. That's that's a pretty good impression.

00:03:47.520 Right. It's just annoying. You can tell she's reading and what it telegraphs is. This is not

00:03:51.720 sincere. This is inauthentic. I don't believe she believes anything she's saying. This is just

00:03:56.840 something someone wrote for her. Maybe she does believe I'm just saying this is the effect of a

00:04:00.700 listener. And it is one of the reasons why she didn't she didn't resonate, because this is how she

00:04:05.240 kind of always sounds. But anyway, she's gone. So what do you make of it? Well, she she overperformed.

00:04:11.200 She ran a good campaign, a much better campaign than any of the other non-Trump candidates, including

00:04:15.900 very much Ron DeSantis. I just counted her at the beginning, didn't pay a lot of attention to her.

00:04:20.380 And she kind of shouldered her way in with some some debate throwdowns with your your future guest

00:04:27.440 here, Vivek Ramaswamy, and then just owned a part of the party. Now, a 25 percent, 30 percent

00:04:34.700 part of the party. But that that was more than DeSantis had. It was enough when the conditions

00:04:39.460 were just just right to get kind of close to Trump, you know, in New Hampshire and respectable

00:04:44.280 in South Carolina. But she could spend a lot of money and a lot of time in those places.

00:04:48.860 And she was from South Carolina. New Hampshire lined up ideologically for pretty well. But that

00:04:54.180 wasn't true of the rest of the calendar. And as the contest started coming more quickly,

00:04:57.960 then her results were kind of regressing towards her national poll standing against Trump,

00:05:04.400 which is like 15 percent. So she was she was maybe she was there a couple of places last

00:05:08.380 night. But she she did better than that. But that's where she was heading. And this was

00:05:12.380 clearly there was nothing there's no reason to stay in. I'm surprised she lasted this long

00:05:17.680 and she's gotten out. I'm not sure how this this non endorsement, you know, Trump's got to earn

00:05:21.740 a thing is going to work. Is he really going to earn it? You know, in her terms, is she just

00:05:28.800 done with being a Republican politician is not going to endorse? I don't know. So she may have created

00:05:33.440 a kind of a box cannon for herself there. She's a politician, so she's going to endorse eventually.

00:05:39.420 And she's going to take a post in his cabinet or administration if he offers it. That's my

00:05:44.220 prediction. They never put money on a politician holding to principle like that's just not where

00:05:52.040 the smart money is. They protect themselves and their political longevity. And I get it. That's a

00:05:57.340 different game they're in. But there's zero chance she's not going to ultimately endorse him

00:06:01.180 and go back and kiss the ring if he wins. Yes, she wants she wants a political career.

00:06:07.020 Yeah, I would think she wants to run again 2028. And yeah, she has to endorse. Given that I would

00:06:14.040 have just endorsed today. You know, I don't I don't see that. I'm not sure how much leverage she has

00:06:18.920 over Trump. I just would have done it in the way DeSantis did, you know, do it in a dignified way,

00:06:25.620 do it in a way you know, you're not gonna be the veep. So you're not gonna be standing behind

00:06:28.920 Donald Trump like Tim Scott, you know, with pom poms and all that. But just do it and get it over

00:06:33.380 with. And then the question is done and you move on. And, you know, Nikki Haley's proposition clear

00:06:38.300 thought here is she'll be the I told you so candidate if Trump loses. Now, there's some

00:06:42.820 chance that that he will lose. But no one's going to want to hear I told you so. It's gonna be 10

00:06:47.940 years since she was UN ambassador. And, you know, her favorable ratings weren't that high this time

00:06:52.820 around. I just don't see I don't see a future for her, unless it's with a position with with Trump,

00:06:58.780 which would be awkward, given what she said, it's not just like, I don't like the way he conducts

00:07:02.600 himself, or I don't like his trade policy. It's like, he's not up for this anymore. You know,

00:07:06.980 so that's a little hard to get harder to get around. And yet, you know, Trump is very good

00:07:11.000 at forgiving people and moving on what basically the way it goes with Trump generally is he does

00:07:14.860 something outrageous, then they say something not nice about him. And then he forgives them because

00:07:21.480 he wants them for some reason, and he's willing to look past their responsive slight after he

00:07:27.980 attacked them. That's generally the pattern. But that's, you know, whatever. So I think they'll

00:07:32.660 probably make up because he really does need her voters. He needs every single Republican he can get

00:07:38.500 to win this race and independents who are more attracted to her. I don't think he's gonna kiss

00:07:43.580 her ring, though, at any point soon. He didn't last night. He didn't mention her. He was he was

00:07:48.740 posting on truth, social negative things about her. And so I think there's room for them to make

00:07:54.300 up. But this is for what it's worth. This is how he sounded last night wasn't about her. It was about

00:07:58.480 how things are going to go for him on a go forward basis. And he took a shot at Joe Biden. Here it is.

00:08:06.520 I think it's SOT 7. And they're coming from rough places and dangerous places. And we had that

00:08:13.140 shutdown. We had everything going so beautifully when Joe Biden goes to the beach because somebody

00:08:18.900 on his staff thinks he looks very good in a bathing suit until he can't get his feet out of

00:08:25.640 the sand or lift the chair, which weighs about nine ounces. Joe Biden, if he would have just left

00:08:31.580 everything alone, he could have gone to the beach. He would have had a tremendous success at the border

00:08:35.540 and elsewhere. He's so good at picturing like he calls up the image we all have in there. You know,

00:08:45.100 everyone's on that picture. Yeah, the skeletal figure struggling with the lawn chair. And that's

00:08:50.980 fine. You know, I think mockery has a place in and in politics. And he's absolutely right about the

00:08:55.480 border. And this this is just I wrote about this the other day, February 2nd, 2021. Within two weeks

00:09:01.720 of being inaugurated, Biden's issues, this executive order that just this is one executive

00:09:06.060 order. He had many others on the border, but must have repealed 10, a dozen Trump proclamations,

00:09:12.080 policies, statements. Most important, Biden made it his policy to repeal remain in Mexico

00:09:16.540 and the safe third country agreements. Safe third country goes within days. Blinken says it's gone.

00:09:21.940 And then there's a legal struggle over remain in Mexico. But they fought to end remain in Mexico.

00:09:26.180 They fought in court to end remain in Mexico. Mayorkas had to reissue an executive order repealing it.

00:09:31.220 And everyone knew it was going to blow up the border, open it up, create a disaster. They

00:09:35.960 were warned. It was predictable. And they did it anyway. And that's all going to be around Biden's

00:09:40.160 neck in November. So Karl Rove was over on Fox News last night, and he's not a big Trump fan.

00:09:47.640 He is a lifelong Republican, and he got George Bush, the second, 43, elected twice. But he was zeroing in.

00:09:56.460 And I realize Trump doesn't like this and Trump supporters don't like this, but let's talk about it.

00:10:00.400 Um, on the numbers that Nikki Haley did amass and sort of the missing Trump support in places like

00:10:07.640 Virginia, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Maine, and Vermont. Now, you know, Virginia matters in this race.

00:10:13.900 North Carolina matters in this race. And, um, you know, he's pointing out, let's say, uh, in Virginia,

00:10:20.980 a third of the vote went to Nikki Haley, a quarter of the vote in North Carolina went to Nikki Haley.

00:10:27.920 And his point was, there really is still some work to be done to unify the Republican Party.

00:10:33.740 Now, Rich, all along, I've been saying, I get it, but you and I, in acute and memorable ways,

00:10:40.980 both lived through 1516. And the Republican Party, it was extremely divided over Trump back then.

00:10:51.920 And the party came home. He got over 90, I think it was 93% of the Republican vote turned out for him.

00:10:59.100 I would submit they are less divided over Trump now than they were back then. And I know if there's

00:11:04.620 another option on the ballot, they're like, I prefer her. There's some 30%. They say, I prefer her.

00:11:10.240 But this, I do not believe tells us that when it's Trump v. Biden, that they will say,

00:11:15.720 I won't vote Trump or I will stay home and just allow Biden to ride in.

00:11:21.100 Yeah. So I had this experience, this coming home experience in my own family in 2016. My mom,

00:11:26.100 she was quite elderly then. She would vote early in Virginia. And she was kind of a moderate

00:11:31.200 Republican, didn't really like Trump, but hated Hillary. And she called me like,

00:11:35.360 what can I do? I don't want to vote for either of them. And I looked and I didn't lobby her to do

00:11:39.420 this or push her to do this. I said, what about this guy? Ed McMullen's on the ballot there in

00:11:42.320 Virginia if you want another option. So she goes, votes early, you know,

00:11:45.280 three weeks before the election, whatever it is for Ed McMullen. And then like a week before the

00:11:49.220 election, he calls me, Richie, who's that idiot you had me vote for? I want to vote for Trump.

00:11:52.760 You know, so she felt that coming home and she was a suburban, relatively moderate Republican.

00:11:57.380 And that happened all around the country. And it was enough to get him over the top.

00:12:01.540 So I basically agree with you. The party's more united now. And Steve Karnacki actually wrote an

00:12:06.660 interesting piece over at NBC about this weird disconnect where you look at the primaries and Haley

00:12:13.520 does well among independents or wins independents in these primary races. And then you look at the

00:12:18.020 national polling as Biden and Trump is winning independents. So how does that make sense? And

00:12:22.060 his explanation was the independents who are going and voting against Trump in these primaries are the

00:12:26.980 most committed anti-Trump independents. The average independent does not share the same view. And I

00:12:33.300 think the same thing is true of the Republicans voting for Haley. That's not the, you know,

00:12:40.040 she's winning 30% in these states and Trump's winning 90% in the national polls. So I think

00:12:46.120 they're more committed to being anti-Trump, but a lot of them will come home anyway. But none of that's

00:12:51.740 to say that Trump should be giving up any of these votes. He needs every single one he can,

00:12:56.060 because unless something crazy happens, this is going to be a close election.

00:12:58.740 Well, and not only that, I do believe Trump cares what happens to the country, but I know for a

00:13:03.840 fact he cares about what happens to him. And if he doesn't win, there's a very good chance he's

00:13:08.940 going to go to jail. So, I mean, he really does need to win. Although it is sort of an interesting

00:13:15.040 question to think if he doesn't win and therefore he cannot pull Jack Smith's DOJ off of these two

00:13:23.600 federal cases, what happens? I think the Democrats see it through. I don't think the Democrats take

00:13:29.320 the pedal off the floor on the criminal prosecutions. They're committed to getting

00:13:34.660 Trump, whether he's in the White House or not. Yep. Yeah. So if Trump loses, our friend and

00:13:41.700 colleague, Charlie Cook, wrote a piece arguing this the other day. His legacy is totally wiped out.

00:13:46.800 I mean, Biden will get Supreme Court appointments. You know, everything that's been reversed will stay

00:13:52.400 reversed. And he'll be known, you know, not to all the supporters, because Trump will argue this

00:13:57.120 the second election is rigged too, but he'll be a two time loser. And that's very unusual. It's hard

00:14:01.780 to do that. You know, a couple of people in American history, you can, can say, say the same. So the

00:14:06.760 stakes are huge. Then there's a legal thing. And I'm just, I've been radicalized against Jack Smith.

00:14:11.580 This is so wrong, what he's trying to do. The idea that he would really have Trump in a courtroom,

00:14:16.100 you know, whether it's in DC and or in Florida over the classified documents thing from July until

00:14:22.620 November of a presidential election, it's insane. It's insane. And he knows exactly what he's doing.

00:14:29.480 And you saw it in the reaction when the Supreme Court took up the immunity pleas. You know,

00:14:33.080 the left-wing commentators are like, well, justice won't be done. And this is very bad. But they're

00:14:36.540 also like, oh my God, Biden could lose because Trump's not going to stand trial and be convicted.

00:14:41.120 And that's just a rank distortion of our system. Oh yeah. It was, I mean, we talked about yesterday,

00:14:47.340 Andy's piece where he was quoting Politico and they're saying, you know, well, what could happen

00:14:51.780 for is Chutkin could, once she gets the green light, we assume in the summer by the Supreme

00:14:56.380 Court to go ahead with these cases that Trump's not immune for everything and potentially not immune

00:15:00.460 for the cases going up there. She could just, you know, floor it. She could floor it in that

00:15:05.180 litigation. They could have the trial going on in October and all the way up through November 5th.

00:15:11.300 And that Trump could be allowed to campaign potentially on weekends when he's, you have to

00:15:17.540 sit there as a criminal defendant. You have to be, or nothing happens on a Friday in Washington, D.C.

00:15:22.980 Or they said, Rich, possibly they do half day trials and he could just campaign in the mid-Atlantic

00:15:28.280 states. Yeah. Virginia really worked Virginia hard. Yeah. It's insane. It's so, it's so deeply

00:15:35.720 wrong. And it's also going to delegitimize the election either way. So let's say he doesn't get

00:15:39.440 the trial. Trial doesn't get off the ground. It doesn't happen before the election. What,

00:15:42.440 what are Democrats going to say? This is an illegitimate election. He's an illegitimate

00:15:46.120 president because it's really important central trial to our history and to our fate of a nation

00:15:50.440 didn't happen. And the Supreme Court helped stop it from happening. Right. So let's blow the whole

00:15:54.700 thing up. Trump, he doesn't have to have any other rigged argument, except if this goes to trial and

00:15:59.720 he's convicted and he loses, he'll just say the justice system was rigged against me and he'll,

00:16:04.120 he'll have a legitimate case. Yeah, he'll be right for sure. This time he'll have a far more

00:16:09.280 legitimate claim this time around than he did the last time around. And it really was rigged against

00:16:13.300 him. So he won't, he will definitely not be calling himself a two-time loser. I think we can both

00:16:16.940 agree on that. Yeah. Charles' piece is about, you know, the perception. Okay. So in the meantime,

00:16:23.140 or on the other side of the aisle, we're getting a report now. Uh, this is from Axios that Biden,

00:16:30.240 first we heard earlier, uh, that CNN was saying Biden's direction delivered to his senior most

00:16:36.160 staff is to significantly ramp up the campaign's efforts to highlight the quote, crazy shit Trump

00:16:40.460 says, which we were mocking on this show. Cause it's like, Oh, no one's ever tried doing that

00:16:44.260 before. Gee, I'm sure that'll get it done. Okay. But now today there's a piece in Axios,

00:16:48.880 Biden's new strategy, colon, go for Trump's jugular. Biden is privately pushing for a much

00:16:54.700 more aggressive approach to 2024. Go for Trump's jugular. He's convinced he will rattle Donald

00:16:59.940 Trump. If he taunts him daily, Biden has told friends, he thinks Trump is wobbly both intellectually

00:17:05.900 and emotionally and will explode. If Biden mercilessly gigs and goads him quote, go haywire in public.

00:17:13.740 As one advisor put it, other sources tell us that Biden is looking for a fight. Now, this actually

00:17:20.400 is a little bit more interesting to me, Rich, because, you know, Trump does not like to allow

00:17:25.860 attacks on him to pass unresponded to. And I do think he has a history of proving he can be easily

00:17:32.240 goaded into these fights. Yep. And it probably makes more sense than talking about infrastructure,

00:17:37.720 right? Everyone's in favor of infrastructure. So polls strongly and they think, Oh, infrastructure's

00:17:41.800 our, our Trump card, but who really cares deeply about infrastructure, right? No one opposes bridges,

00:17:46.460 but that doesn't mean you're going to vote for a guy because he's spending more money on bridges,

00:17:50.920 certainly at the presidential level. Uh, so this, this does make sense. Obviously Trump hates being

00:17:57.340 criticized. He has to, you know, as he always, as I said in 2016, I'm a counter puncher. He is,

00:18:03.120 you know, he can barely let anything go. So I don't think this is a crazy strategy. The problem

00:18:07.520 though, maybe for the white house is having broadcast it, maybe you create an extra incentive

00:18:12.760 for Susie Wiles and Chris Lasavita and the smart people around Trump to say, Mr. President, don't

00:18:18.100 go there. See what they're trying to do. Look at this news article about what they're trying to get

00:18:21.880 you to do. Talk about the economy tonight instead. I don't think they'll have a hundred percent success

00:18:27.120 on that. Uh, if history is any guide, but Steve Bannon in, in 16, a kind of crucial final weeks,

00:18:33.720 you know, the reports, he was in the plane with Trump on the plane with Trump and kept on saying,

00:18:38.420 they're trying to get you to, to say X, Y, Z instead, stay, stay on message. Just talk about

00:18:43.400 trade. Talk about how the elites ruined the working class. And he had some, some success

00:18:47.960 there at the end. So it's never going to be perfect keeping Trump on message, but I think having

00:18:52.380 broadcast it, this is, they want to get him off message. It might be a little easier to keep him on.

00:18:57.000 Yeah, that's right. Okay. So meanwhile, I don't know if you're aware of this, but voters on the

00:19:01.780 Republican side are not voting on the economy. So they shouldn't be touting that they're voting

00:19:05.880 on race and racial animus. So says Joy Reed. This is her big master takeaway from last night's,

00:19:13.120 um, basic nomination of Donald Trump. Take a listen, Sato. But Republican voters don't vote

00:19:19.660 that way. They don't vote based on economics or based on the benefits they're getting economically

00:19:24.300 from the president. They're increasingly from the tea party on they're voting on race. They're voting

00:19:29.540 on this idea of an invasion of Brown people over the border. The idea that they can't get whatever

00:19:34.820 job they want. A black person got it. Therefore drive all the blacks out of the colleges, get rid

00:19:39.280 of DEI. That is what they're voting on. They're just voting specifically on racial animus at this

00:19:45.040 stage. It isn't about economics. No. You see the blacks want to, or the Republicans want to get all the

00:19:52.720 blacks out of the colleges. Didn't you guys have an article on that national review? How do we get the

00:19:58.500 blacks out of universities? This is so absurd. It's so insulting, but it's kind of hard to get

00:20:03.860 insulted by Joy Reed now. She's just such a comical figure. Yeah. Well, they look, look through

00:20:08.940 everything and everything through racial means and want to preserve all these, uh, poisonous racialist

00:20:16.220 arguments and structures in American life. And the idea that there's only like white people that

00:20:21.580 care about border security is deeply insulting. I mean, we, plenty of, uh, Latinos care about as

00:20:29.480 well. Plenty of, uh, African-Americans care about it as well. And it's a, it's a top, you know, um,

00:20:35.580 top issue, maybe the top issue, depending on the poll for a reason. Right. And it's, it doesn't just

00:20:41.520 affect, um, border States. Rachel Maddow was mocking people in Virginia, caring about the border.

00:20:46.500 It's like, Oh yeah, Virginia has a border with West Virginia, but these migrants come in and

00:20:51.380 they go everywhere. Right. Why is Eric Adams exercised about illegal immigration? New York

00:20:56.200 state isn't, isn't a border state, right? It doesn't border Mexico. So this is like totally

00:21:02.500 out of touch. And, but it's a sign of where the left is. And this is a reason Biden has gone on for

00:21:08.560 three years or more now without fixing a totally unsustainable situation at the border. That's bad for

00:21:14.600 the country and, and catastrophic for his political prospects. It's, uh, everything is reduced to

00:21:20.300 race. We don't, you don't, you're upset about illegal immigration. You don't like Brown people.

00:21:23.940 You're upset about illegal immigration. You want blacks out of colleges. What, what, what are you

00:21:28.360 saying? All the blacks in the colleges are illegal immigrants. I mean, if I said that you'd be calling

00:21:33.660 me a racist pig, Joy Reed, it's no better when you say it. Um, then here's the comment that you just

00:21:40.140 referenced. I mean, the most disgusting comment of the night and that's saying something because

00:21:44.260 MSNBC is really giving itself a run for its money each night. Uh, they all triple down on who could

00:21:48.880 be the worst. And in this particular clip, you've got three of the faves. You've got Joy Reed, Rachel

00:21:53.760 Maddow and Jen Psaki scoffing. I mean, just sneering at this notion that Virginia voters are going to

00:22:02.800 vote based on immigration or care about immigration. Look at this. I mean, if you look at some of these

00:22:08.900 exit polls, I mean, I live in Virginia, immigration was the number one issue. Of course. I mean,

00:22:13.920 again, these could change in, in Virginia. Virginia does have a border with West Virginia.

00:22:19.420 Very contested. What? I mean, when I was in New Hampshire, people were talking about the Northern

00:22:25.520 border as a threat because Trump has indoctrinated people with this fear of people who do not like,

00:22:32.240 look like them being a threat to that. You know, I mean, and every, you know, every election cycle,

00:22:37.520 when, and there's, it's particularly when there's a democratic incumbent, we get reminded about the

00:22:41.100 borders and the borders become a thing again. But they, the only difference now is they,

00:22:46.580 they drop the every four years part. And now, I mean, all the programming about cities of crime

00:22:52.340 and crime. Meanwhile, on earth one, the FBI reports that violent crime in America is at a 50 year

00:23:00.040 low. And migrant crime is not a thing. And migrant crime is not a thing. And you live on earth one.

00:23:08.540 I like, there's so much to do there, Rich. Migrant crime is not a thing. Tell it

00:23:12.660 to the family of the 14 year old girl in Campbell County, Virginia, who was just sexually assaulted

00:23:19.040 by an illegal from Venezuela. Who's now been arrested and charged, uh, after he crossed illegally

00:23:25.560 into El Paso, Texas in September of 23, this past September and released into the United States

00:23:30.620 by the feds. Um, Stephen Miller online responds one in eight, about one in eight Virginia residents

00:23:37.240 today was born in a foreign country. One in four very young people has a foreign born parent in

00:23:43.580 Virginia and Fairfax County, uh, public schools, roughly 20% of students struggle to speak English.

00:23:49.580 Migration has completely reshaped the Commonwealth of Virginia, where I used to live as well. This

00:23:56.220 is, they laugh and sneer at their own peril. They'll learn in November what the truth is.

00:24:02.260 Yeah. Well, Rachel Maddow should, should go to South side of Chicago and, and meet with the

00:24:07.620 local residents who are outraged. You know, we, we also saw these clips or clips from the community

00:24:13.360 meetings or, uh, interviews on the street. Migrants are being moved into their community center,

00:24:18.640 right? They want the community center for their teenagers. They're at risk teenagers,

00:24:22.320 the kind of people that Rachel Maddow is supposed to care about. And there's no reason that people

00:24:28.040 from another country should just walk into the country and, and go to their community center.

00:24:32.060 That's how they feel. And it's totally commonsensical and reasonable. Do they not listen to anything

00:24:37.400 that Brandon Johnson says, or Eric Adams says, these cities being overwhelmed with the housing and the

00:24:43.620 costs associated with it from illegal immigrants? So this is a national crisis. It's not a manufactured

00:24:50.900 thing. If Trump didn't exist and no Republican was talking about the border at all, people would still

00:24:56.640 feel this way, right? Cause they see it all around them. And even, you know, Steven is absolutely right

00:25:02.400 about how immigration's changed the demographics of Virginia. But even if you never, you know,

00:25:07.660 you're someplace in the middle of the country that literally never, you never encounter an immigrant,

00:25:11.620 it doesn't mean that you can still not be outraged by what's happening at the border, right?

00:25:16.000 There are tons of people who are outraged and fearful of climate change, who will never encounter

00:25:20.480 a climate change event that's in any way threatening to them, right? So this is, this is ridiculous. It

00:25:28.260 just goes to just how radical they've gotten on this issue. Joe Biden, 20, 30 years ago, did not sound

00:25:33.360 the way he does now on the border. He says, we have to stop illegal immigration. Bill Clinton said,

00:25:37.500 we have to stop illegal immigration. But even doing that now is, is considered a nasty and retrograde

00:25:44.560 and only people in the throes of deep racial fantasies believe in it. That's a, that's a crazy

00:25:50.820 place. To say in the wake of Lake and Riley's murder, you know, days ago, a week ago on the

00:25:58.240 university of Georgia campus, that migrants, they're not linked to crime. They are, they are too. And we

00:26:03.960 talked about this on our show yesterday, pivoting on what I heard on your show, the editors with

00:26:08.020 Charles CW Cook saying even one is too many American citizens committing crime is one thing.

00:26:13.180 We don't applaud it. We don't want it. We try to punish it in certain jurisdictions,

00:26:17.140 but we don't have to deal. We shouldn't have to deal with illegals coming over here and committing

00:26:22.400 crime. Even one is too many. And, and the, as, as this girl, her family is still mourning that,

00:26:28.360 that, that grave is freshly dug and they are out there sneering about how migrants don't commit

00:26:34.640 crime. Yeah. And it's, it's entirely avoidable, right? That's what makes it so maddening and

00:26:41.100 outrageous at any number of junctures that, that guy, he never should have gotten the country in

00:26:45.020 the first place. He should have been deported at any number of junctures. If we're just following

00:26:49.260 our own laws, it never would have happened. And that's, that's a huge deal to anyone who has an

00:26:55.460 ounce of common sense, but that doesn't apply to many people on the set at MSNBC.

00:27:00.320 Meanwhile, here's Corrine Jean-Pierre on the subject of Lake and Riley's murder. Listen.

00:27:05.420 Will President Biden publicly address Lake and Riley's murder allegedly at the hands of

00:27:11.060 an illegal immigrant who was released by law enforcement multiple times on Thursday night?

00:27:16.240 This is such a tragic story and obviously situation. I don't have anything to share

00:27:22.960 about the president's speech as it relates to that particular question that you have.

00:27:27.200 I would be remiss if I did not continue to say that Republicans rejected a bipartisan proposal

00:27:33.460 that came out of the Senate. I mean, she's just going to keep doing it. By the way, just FYI,

00:27:39.820 Bill Malugian of Fox News reporting. CPB reports another 7,000 migrant encounters at the southern

00:27:47.840 border yesterday. That's the fourth day in a row of 7,000 a day. The slow months are right now. These

00:27:56.500 are the slow months of January, February, early March. And he says now that's likely in the rear view

00:28:02.680 and the annual spring surge is being teed up, which means we're going up from 7,000. And I guess

00:28:08.760 they're just going to sit there going, the Republicans, they didn't like the deal.

00:28:14.600 Yeah, that's exactly what they're going to do. I don't think they're going to get much mileage

00:28:17.280 out of that a little bit. But this is one thing, you know, Trump says he's going to solve the war

00:28:21.100 in Ukraine in 24 hours. He's not going to do that. But the border crisis will, at least initially,

00:28:25.760 for like the first three months, if Trump's elected, end, right? There'll be an enormous,

00:28:29.940 like biblical wave if Trump wins in November, December, January. Then as soon as he's in office,

00:28:34.360 it'll just stop. And then it'll start up again, and he'll have to actually implement policies for

00:28:39.980 more rational order. But this is one thing, the difference couldn't be more stark. You either

00:28:44.160 get a continued border crisis with Biden, or it ends with Trump. And Democrats are so,

00:28:50.780 I don't think they really, on top of having a kind of cracked lunatic morality when it comes to borders,

00:28:56.020 they also don't know what happened. I think Pete Buttigieg was on Squawk Box yesterday and was pushed on

00:29:02.260 Biden reversing Trump policies. And he said, either he was lying through his teeth or just doesn't know.

00:29:08.220 So, you know, the only thing Biden ended was the separation of child separation, right? So Trump

00:29:14.580 tried that for about a week. There was outrage over it. It was a debacle. And he ended it in about a

00:29:20.160 week, you know, years ago. This is the one thing that Biden didn't reverse because it was already

00:29:24.900 reversed. He reversed all the stuff that was working and that didn't have any significant

00:29:29.040 humanitarian consequences. But here's a guy who's supposed to be plugged in, who thinks all they

00:29:33.380 did was end child separations. And they kind of view everything Trump did as child separation. It

00:29:38.380 was inherently wrong and had to go just because Trump did it without any sort of rational consideration

00:29:44.300 of the consequences. Well, so, yeah, I mean, he changed it because he thought we were being

00:29:49.740 inhumane. We wanted to be more humane when Joe Biden took office, not about the kids, but about the

00:29:54.740 border, about border enforcement. And we've seen what that's gotten us. You know, we've

00:29:58.300 gotten deaths of American children of innocence going for a jog. We've seen fentanyl crossing

00:30:03.680 the border and record levels. We've seen record level levels of border crossings to the point

00:30:07.980 where, as you point out, school centers are being shut down. Schools are being taken over

00:30:11.040 by illegals coming in. You can't even speak English in half of these classrooms because you

00:30:15.640 have to have a different person who can speak all the languages, at least in New York.

00:30:19.240 That's his humane policy. And same thing on crime. They wanted to do this out in San

00:30:23.160 Francisco. We need to be more humane in our crime enforcement. And look where we are just

00:30:26.840 a couple of years later. Chesa Boudin, that prosecutor has been booted because crime was

00:30:30.900 just too rampant. And now you see the ballot initiatives out in San Francisco that these

00:30:35.060 that the San Franciscans approved to have to make it easier on cops to make arrests and to pursue

00:30:44.020 felons. And there's a couple other ballot initiatives out there, too, that show that city's

00:30:48.100 not quite as blue as it once was. So what did you think when you saw that?

00:30:52.160 I mean, it just shows you can push anyone too far. You can push even San Francisco too

00:30:57.960 far. And the level of disorder that they have to put up with on their streets and the sense

00:31:01.780 of threat is just intolerable. And it doesn't matter whether you're conservative in the middle

00:31:05.800 or progressive. If you're scared, if you're disgusted by what you see, if you see human

00:31:11.560 feces on the sidewalk, you're going to react. And so you've seen a reaction even in San Francisco.

00:31:18.100 I don't think it's as you know, we're not going to see it other places. Unfortunately,

00:31:22.060 the other cities are just going to seem content to think beneath the waves. But it is a sign that

00:31:26.880 people can be pushed too far.

00:31:29.520 On that front, just breaking New York Times, Governor Kathy Hochul amid a series of violent

00:31:34.600 crimes on the subway said she would deploy 1000 members of the state police and National Guard

00:31:38.840 to the transit system. But there's no crime, Rich. We're at 50 years, year lows. There's nothing to worry

00:31:45.860 about. We don't know why they have every single deodorant in Walgreens locked up. It's a mystery

00:31:52.180 that they're jumping off the shelves themselves. It's always a pleasure, my friend. Thank you for

00:31:56.860 being here.

00:31:57.400 Thank you so much. Talk soon.

00:31:59.140 All right. See you soon. When we come back, Vivek Ramaswamy. So much I want to talk to him

00:32:04.140 about. And we have more MSNBC insanity queued up for him. Stand by.

00:32:12.700 Joining me now, Vivek Ramaswamy, former 2024 presidential candidate and author of Capitalist

00:32:19.260 Punishment. Vivek, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you.

00:32:23.080 It's good to see you, Megan.

00:32:24.040 So your main rival, I mean, I guess it's fair to say Nikki Haley in the presidential race is now

00:32:29.700 officially out several months after pretty much everybody else got out. Your reaction to her

00:32:36.120 bailing out without endorsing Trump?

00:32:39.580 Look, I'd say better her getting out of the race late than never. I'd say that she's irrelevant in

00:32:44.320 this race going forward. So I prefer not to waste a ton of airtime, you know, adjudicating Nikki Haley.

00:32:50.080 But I'll say I'll share with you what my thoughts are is she's a representation of a strand in the

00:32:56.420 Republican Party that still continues to exist. I mean, Nikki Haley was a representation of many

00:33:00.720 other candidates who filled that same ideological vision, which I think is more interesting than,

00:33:05.440 you know, talking about her as an individual. I think that vision is one in which you have the

00:33:10.300 United States playing an interventionist role in the world, taking actual liberties and infringing

00:33:15.720 on them at the margin when necessary to advance certain national security driven agendas,

00:33:21.400 what you'd call the neoconservative vision. And that's different than I think the future

00:33:25.240 direction of the Republican Party that I'd like to see in the direction that it's headed,

00:33:28.960 which is more of a libertarian nationalist movement that says the people we elect to run

00:33:33.020 the government should be the ones who run the government and that they owe their sole moral

00:33:37.280 duty to the citizens of this country rather than another one. So I think that ideological divide

00:33:43.140 continues to persist and continues to outlive Nikki Haley's candidacy. And I think will be an

00:33:48.460 interesting area of intra party debate going forward. But for the rest of this year, I think you're going

00:33:53.480 to see amended over at least temporary alliance to say that it's worth beating Joe Biden. And I think

00:33:59.140 it is worth beating whoever the Democratic candidate is going to be. I personally think it's not going

00:34:02.280 to be Biden, but I think that's what we're going to see for the rest of this year. But that's not

00:34:06.140 going to change the underlying ideological fissure. And I do think it is that within the Republican

00:34:10.860 Party, that's going to have to be resolved, I would say even more clearly in the years to come.

00:34:16.700 Okay, so what about that? Because as the party is still somewhat divided, you know, America First,

00:34:21.660 MAGA, that's a large portion of it. It's Trump's party, clearly. There's still this other faction. You

00:34:26.980 know, there's definitely still a number of Republicans who are more, I don't know if you want to call it

00:34:31.540 Ronald Reagan aligned, George W. Bush aligned, but just sort of different policies, certainly when it comes to

00:34:36.340 international conflicts and so on, she would say she's in that vein. So that's why some people say,

00:34:41.200 oh, he should make her his VP, because the party must unite. The number one thing is to beat the

00:34:46.760 Democrats. And if they have to swallow this medicine, they don't want to swallow to get the big W,

00:34:53.480 then do it. What do you make of that logic? Well, I'd say a couple of things. First is I do think we

00:34:57.760 need to dispense with the Reagan analogy. George W. Bush, fine. Reagan, not fine. I think a lot of the

00:35:04.400 neoconservatives of the modern 20 years have managed to co-opt and rewrite Ronald Reagan's

00:35:09.520 legacy. Reagan was actually an America First conservative. He believed in strength. I think

00:35:13.040 America First today ought to and does believe in strength as well, the power of a strong military.

00:35:18.960 Strength is different from intervention. Often forgotten in Reagan's legacy was his decision

00:35:22.900 to exit Lebanon when actually there was a catastrophe in Beirut. Today's neoconservatives

00:35:27.660 would say that was running with, you know, them firing at your back. What Reagan actually asked

00:35:32.100 in the face of a crisis was whether or not our presence there advanced American interests. And

00:35:37.280 so this rewriting of Reagan's legacy in the modern neocon mold, I do think is an error. It's just

00:35:43.560 factually inaccurate. And I do think the likes of Nikki Haley who have tried to appropriate that mantle

00:35:48.140 do it only to find that that mantle doesn't actually fit the vision they're advancing. I think it's much

00:35:52.380 closer to a George Bush post 9-11 view. Now to the question that you ask about VP, look, that's

00:35:57.900 Donald Trump's decision to make, who he makes as vice president. But I will say this is coherence

00:36:02.360 is really important in a governing agenda. I think one of the learnings from the first term,

00:36:06.460 and I do think Donald Trump and many of the people around him appropriately have, I think,

00:36:10.720 taken a lot of learnings from that first term to go even further to advance America First in the

00:36:15.400 second term, is that you need people who are aligned with the core principles, right? There's good

00:36:20.100 room for reasonable debate. Debate's always a good thing within any organization, including an

00:36:24.900 administration. But if the fundamental principles aren't aligned, the John Boltons, the Nikki Haley's

00:36:30.240 of the world that were in that first administration, I think that that's going to frustrate advancing the

00:36:35.520 agenda of Donald Trump as the next president more than it will advance it. So that's my personal

00:36:39.960 opinion when it comes to a Nikki Haley. But it's less about her and more about the need for alignment

00:36:45.760 to advance a coherent agenda. And I think Donald Trump understands that. I think it's actually going to

00:36:50.640 be a unifying agenda. The beauty of the America First vision, Megan, is it's not strictly a partisan

00:36:55.940 Republican versus Democrat divide. You go to places like the south side of Chicago, where I visited

00:37:01.600 during the campaign, I saw more alignment for our view on making sure that we're funding American

00:37:07.460 border protection more than Ukrainian border protection, making sure that we're actually

00:37:11.560 funding. They better pay attention, Vivek, because Charles Barkley was on CNN saying he's going to

00:37:17.140 punch any black person in the face who's going to vote for Donald Trump. If I see a black person

00:37:23.360 walking around with Trump mugs, I'm going to punch him in the face. Charles. No, Gail. Gail. You really

00:37:29.220 can't say that because, A, you don't mean that. Oh, I mean that sincerely. I'm going to just tell you

00:37:34.340 something. And then you will be arrested for assault. And then what? I'm going to bail myself

00:37:38.400 out and go celebrate. Look, there's no question that Biden's going to win the black vote. But

00:37:44.280 there's no question Trump's share of it is polling higher than we've ever seen with a Republican

00:37:49.040 presidential candidate. Go ahead. Yeah. And look, I think that that's actually promising where this

00:37:53.580 old school vision of the Republican Party of, you know, a narrow set of ideological agendas relating

00:37:59.060 to economic policy and foreign policy intervention. And we expand that aperture to say, no, no,

00:38:04.220 this is about all Americans first, actually. America first includes all Americans. That's a

00:38:09.880 powerful vision. It transcends black versus white. I'll tell you, a lot of black Americans rightly

00:38:14.800 look at illegal migrants in schools ranging from Chicago to New York, being converted to

00:38:19.320 encampments for migrants in the inner city, rightly asking, what the heck about me when you're

00:38:23.520 spending $7,000 per migrant per month, forking over $200 billion to Ukraine while we have Americans

00:38:29.640 struggling here at home? I think that's a powerful vision. It's a vision that goes back to

00:38:34.180 even George Washington's vision for this country in 1776 that are going to bring a lot of orphaned

00:38:39.900 Democrats and independents and libertarians along with us. That I think that's actually far more

00:38:44.960 promising as a future of the Republican Party than reciting slogans memorized in the post 9-11

00:38:50.000 era from Dick Cheney and George Bush, which is what certain Republican candidates I think today are

00:38:55.140 still trying to cling on to. I think that's withering away and it's going to melt away to

00:38:58.920 irrelevance. But I do think that that's, you're asking about the last candidate exiting from the

00:39:03.600 Republican primary field. I think that's the most interesting takeaway is what it has in terms of

00:39:08.500 implications for the future of a Republican Party, where we're seeing that ideological vision

00:39:13.340 kindly go to the dustbins of history where it should.

00:39:16.100 Uh, okay. We've got to get a little bit of the reaction that we saw in the media last night to

00:39:21.660 Donald Trump essentially securing the nomination, not officially in terms of delegates, but it says

00:39:25.540 it's done. Um, it was a freak out, but it, it was, I've covered a lot of these Vivek. I mean,

00:39:31.980 I've covered a lot of super Tuesdays. This is more like a snoozer Tuesday because we knew it was going

00:39:36.040 to happen. And what happened, like the rhetoric being employed in this clip, you watch, it's got all of

00:39:42.280 our favorites in there is beyond anything I've heard, even with respect to Trump here. It is in

00:39:47.000 slot six. What's wrong with you people? Why do you hate America? Why do you vote for a guy that says

00:39:53.760 America is terrible? That it's a third world country. So this is not somebody who cares about

00:40:00.600 anything other than himself. There's something so heavy about covering what could be the last election.

00:40:06.140 And we're not, you know, I think talking in hype hyperbolic terms because Trump is now running

00:40:12.600 as a guy who said, quote, I'll be a dictator on day one. He has remade the party in his image. There

00:40:17.980 are, there are still some Republicans who are trying to take it away, like take it back,

00:40:21.940 right? That's over. That's over. There's no back that party, that party doesn't exist anymore.

00:40:26.240 And that we're actually going to be covering a general election between these two men where one

00:40:30.140 isn't running on a promise to continue to have elections at all.

00:40:35.320 Okay. Kicks off with why do you, why do you hate America if you're supporting Trump? And then you

00:40:40.300 heard this is just so heavy as this could be the last election we ever have. He's not going to leave.

00:40:47.340 We heard Rachel Maddow say the same the other night. Yeah. So look, I think that it's a bit Orwell-y

00:40:52.220 and a bit of projection here where you do have a political party and a movement that is literally

00:40:57.000 trying, but for the Supreme Court, to remove one of the two major candidates from the ballot

00:41:01.860 in states across this country. And that means you don't have a nation left, right? If you want a

00:41:05.460 patchwork framework where certain states can disallow certain presidential candidates while other ones

00:41:10.600 allow them, we don't have a country left. So if we wanted to adopt the histrionics, I think we would

00:41:15.460 have a stronger case in the reverse direction. A political party in power, where literally the

00:41:19.880 prosecutorial force of a department of justice reporting into the U.S. president, who's one of those two

00:41:24.760 candidates on the ballot, is using the apparatus of that federal government to go after his political

00:41:29.680 opponent in the middle of an election. So I think you're seeing a lot of projection here. The lack

00:41:34.540 of self-awareness is stunning. But I do think, Megan, it's the beginning of the next layer of

00:41:39.920 histrionics you're going to see to do whatever they can to keep this man out of the White House.

00:41:45.020 And I continue to believe that though people have a lot of complacency in the Republican camp

00:41:49.700 after Super Tuesday, I think the real race hasn't really even begun. I don't think Biden is going to

00:41:56.040 be the nominee. I think they are already planting the seeds, laying the breadcrumbs that make it

00:42:00.380 evident that they're preparing to move him out of the way. What I see right now is the Democrats

00:42:04.320 seeing an advantage though in prolonging that as much as possible. The more Republicans fall into the

00:42:09.400 trap, and I do see it as a trap, and I do see some Republicans falling into it, of focusing the agenda

00:42:14.820 on defeating Biden, talking about his age, talking about his frailty, his mental errors, his lack of

00:42:21.340 mental acuity, even some of the corruption relating to Biden, his relationship with Hunter,

00:42:25.740 all worthy topics to interrogate about any US president. But the more we fall into the siren

00:42:30.940 song of that as our trap, as a lightning rod for our message, in some ways, the better it is for the

00:42:36.160 Democrats if you get to this summer, all of that political capital, energy, messaging capital,

00:42:41.340 and even just raw inertia, right? A force moving in a certain direction, if that's your message,

00:42:46.680 criticizing Biden as your agenda, they pull the rug out. It's not Biden as the nominee.

00:42:51.420 That then by the middle of the summer works to the Democrat advantage. So I think that's exactly

00:42:55.180 what's happening is they're slow playing the switcheroo that's coming this summer. Republicans

00:42:59.580 to some extent are falling into that trap by focusing the message on Biden, when in fact Biden's going to

00:43:05.280 be about as irrelevant as Nikki Haley. That is so interesting. Well, we know that Biden's

00:43:10.340 message is all about Trump and Trump will be the nominee. So maybe it's smarter. There's no switcheroo

00:43:14.520 coming on the Republican side unless Jack Smith manages to get Trump in jail before November,

00:43:19.440 which is looking less and less likely and nearly impossible. But this is fascinating. I do want to

00:43:23.440 talk to you about, because I know you think the switcheroo is coming. Just this week, Michelle

00:43:27.540 Obama's office put out a statement saying she's not running. She does not want to be president.

00:43:32.580 She's not running for president. So do you believe that? And if they do the switcheroo,

00:43:38.220 how and with whom? Well, the lady doth protest too much, I would say right there. We'll see about

00:43:44.660 that. And you know which lady is not protesting too much as Hillary Clinton. She is vying for this

00:43:49.440 in every which way she knows how. It's kind of funny actually to watch, right? But I care less

00:43:55.340 about which specific person it is. If you believe in the modern left's religion, it has to be somebody

00:44:00.900 who checks off at least one identitarian box, which is why I think they're going to have a tough time

00:44:04.920 putting Gavin Newsom there unless they make Kamala Harris the VP again, which allows them to stomach

00:44:09.140 that. But I'm not in this and I wouldn't, you know, I'm not some sort of analyst that has

00:44:13.920 a particular opinion in the betting markets of whether it's going to be Gavin or Michelle

00:44:17.700 or Hillary Clinton or somebody else. And I think in some ways we still risk falling to that same

00:44:23.000 trap if we obsess over that question versus what I think the Republican Party needs to be doing,

00:44:27.160 which is focusing on our own affirmative agenda, irrespective of who we're running for,

00:44:32.300 running against on the other side. And first of all, I think that's necessary because I think

00:44:36.460 it's not going to be Biden. We had, you know, even in the very debate that you moderated and

00:44:40.220 I participated in, we had the Beat Biden Pledge. And I told Ronna McDaniel, this was a pretty silly

00:44:45.160 pledge where we are not focusing on our own agenda or even focusing on our nominee, but instead focusing

00:44:50.480 on beating Biden when he's not going to be the nominee. I've thought this for a long time,

00:44:54.240 but I think that that's a bit of a trap that the Republicans are falling into. And it's an easy trap to

00:44:58.940 fall into because it's a lot easier to criticize an individual than it is to actually articulate

00:45:04.360 and affirm an agenda and a vision of your own. But that's what I think we need to level up and do

00:45:10.720 in these coming months, such that when that switch does come mid-summer, late summer, who knows when

00:45:16.500 it is, it matters less who they put up because we've already immunized ourselves against the effect

00:45:21.720 of that to say that, okay, you have that politic, internal democratic politic game going on over there.

00:45:27.040 We're running there. We're focused on a nation with borders, actually behaving like a nation on

00:45:32.480 economic growth and the pursuit of excellence without apologizing for it on a national identity

00:45:37.240 grounded in the 1776 principles that set our country into motion. We'll go straight down the

00:45:42.420 list. That's what making America great again is all about. You hear the subtext of that a lot in

00:45:48.500 Trump's message. And I would say in the last couple of months, maybe even more clearly. And I think

00:45:52.760 that's a good thing. I think of the Republicans out there, Donald Trump has been doing a better job

00:45:57.800 about incorporating messages relating to free speech, relating to national identity, relating to

00:46:03.820 national unity in his themes. Even in this past week, his reaction to the Supreme Court, I thought,

00:46:09.260 was amongst the better speeches he has given. I think that any candidate has given. The way he handled

00:46:14.720 that, I thought, was well done. That's the direction we need to go even further in that direction to

00:46:20.920 protect ourselves against the otherwise bait and switch trap that the Republicans are going to

00:46:25.360 fall into. I got to tell you something. You mentioned the founding fathers. And at this

00:46:29.780 moment, we have to say a little prayer as we go to break. Then we'll come back because little

00:46:33.660 Thatcher Brunt, my 10 year old, is right now, right at this moment, starring in the afternoon

00:46:38.980 performance at his school of the American Revolution. And he, it's an all boys school. So the boys have to

00:46:47.020 play girls roles too, but he is starring as Betsy Ross and he's going to have to wear a little

00:46:51.700 bonnet, Vivek. And I'm sorry, but it's like basically all I can think about. I'm going to

00:46:55.760 the evening performance. I cannot wait. This is the theater event of the season.

00:47:00.360 I'm excited. Tell him congratulations. And hopefully Nike doesn't cancel him for the Betsy

00:47:04.560 Ross performance, you know, but that's good. You know, it's so crazy. It's like, thank God,

00:47:08.960 as you know, we left our insane New York city schools, which are pushing all sorts of things,

00:47:12.680 including to hate America on us and on our kids. And we're so happy that we're at this school that

00:47:17.220 actually is teaching the children about the States and about the models and what they mean

00:47:20.580 and about the founding fathers and doing a whole play called the American Revolution and showing

00:47:24.940 them, you know, who was King George, who's John Jay, who's Roger Sherman, all this stuff,

00:47:29.020 even Betsy Ross. So, um, maybe I'll run a little clip that doesn't actually show, uh, the faces tomorrow

00:47:34.780 because I cannot wait. All right. Stand by because there's much, much more to do with you. I,

00:47:38.380 I want to talk about you and what's going on in your life. And we, I got to get Vivek's take on

00:47:42.640 that insane MSNBC clip. Stand by, uh, Vivek stays with us. And remember, you can find the Megan

00:47:47.540 Kelly show live on Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon East and go to youtube.com

00:47:53.620 slash Megan Kelly. If you'd like to watch the show instead of just listen, I'm Megan Kelly,

00:47:59.160 host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative

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00:48:56.140 So, Vivek, I've got to get your take on the sneering, ridiculous

00:49:06.760 disdain showed by the MSNBC anchors last night on the subject of illegal immigration and how this is

00:49:17.500 becoming a bigger issue in places like Virginia, which they refuse to accept. Look at this.

00:49:22.660 I mean, if you look at some of these exit polls, I mean, I live in Virginia. Immigration was the

00:49:28.000 number one issue. Of course, I mean, again, these could change in, in Virginia. Virginia does have

00:49:33.100 a border with West Virginia. Very, very contested area. Build the wall. What? I mean, when I was in

00:49:38.800 New Hampshire, people were talking about the northern border as a threat because Trump has

00:49:44.800 indoctrinated people with this fear of people who do not like, look like them being a threat to them.

00:49:50.140 But, you know, I mean, and every, you know, every election cycle, when there's, particularly when

00:49:54.760 there's a Democratic incumbent, we get reminded about the borders and the borders become a thing

00:49:59.200 again. But they, the only difference now is they, they drop the every four years part. And now,

00:50:04.860 I mean, all the programming about cities, the spread of crime and crime.

00:50:09.220 Meanwhile, on Earth One, the FBI reports that violent crime in America is at a 50-year low.

00:50:16.480 And migrant crime is not a thing. And migrant crime is not a thing. And you live on Earth One.

00:50:23.880 I don't, like, Rachel Maddow makes $30 million a year for doing one hour of television a week.

00:50:29.680 All those women sitting up there are multimillionaires, Vivek. You and I

00:50:32.900 well, no, they're not the ones who are going to have to deal with the consequences of what's

00:50:37.900 happening at our southern border. The influx, 7,000 a day right now, never mind what's been

00:50:42.500 happening since Biden took office. Look, I'd love it for them to face down the mother of a 22-year-old

00:50:49.400 young woman who was killed by an illegal migrant who should have never been in this country in the

00:50:54.020 first place and who was released, who should have never been released in the first place either.

00:50:58.380 And that condescension, the sanctimony around it, I think is what's bothersome. It's one thing if

00:51:02.840 you're undereducated or if you have a policy difference to say that notwithstanding the

00:51:06.660 cost of illegal mass migration, here's still the case for it. By the way, I haven't heard

00:51:10.420 anybody make that case, but at least respect somebody, even if I disagreed with them,

00:51:15.000 who actually took the problem seriously and still made an argument for it. But that's not what we've

00:51:19.060 seen from anybody on the left. What we now see is this level of derision. And I'm the kid of

00:51:24.200 legal immigrants to this country, Megan. And I can tell you that most kids of legal immigrants

00:51:29.160 and most legal immigrants themselves find this type of discourse insulting. People have waited

00:51:35.320 for years to come to this country the right way. And yet you have millions. Now it'll be close to 12

00:51:40.860 million, maybe more by the end of Biden's term. That's actually something that is an insult to the

00:51:46.580 fraction of those numbers that we're actually recruiting to this country who we'd actually want

00:51:50.360 to have here. I played tennis the other day. Megan, you'll appreciate with my shirt on this

00:51:54.940 time. It's a discussion for another day. But because I knew you had some feedback on that the

00:52:00.060 first time around. But I was playing tennis with a guy who is, he's like a phenom in every respect.

00:52:05.320 He was top 200 in the world, much better than I am. Good pianist. He's a concert pianist. He does a

00:52:11.040 Rubik's Cube in 30 seconds. He's gone to Harvard Business School in Princeton, some of our best

00:52:14.660 institutions. I don't like him. Too much. I'm just saying it's at the level of almost too much,

00:52:20.500 right? But it'd be the kind of person who you would think if he's got a successful real estate

00:52:24.600 job, whatever it is in this country, 15 years, has not gotten a green card. The sad part of this is

00:52:30.880 the best advice somebody could give him if it were the legal thing to do would be to board a flight to

00:52:35.880 Mexico and cross the southern border to get into this country. That's how broken immigration is in the

00:52:40.500 United States. It's broken in both directions. And so anyway, I think that level of condescension for

00:52:45.500 what I do think is appropriately the number one issue that the next administration, without asking

00:52:51.400 Congress for permission or for forgiveness, by the way, the next administration can address by

00:52:55.900 enforcing the laws on the books. That I think is insulting to Americans to say that the administration

00:53:01.460 doesn't have an obligation to do it. And I also think that that's part of why the Biden administration

00:53:05.700 is now scrambling to reverse the script and pretend to care about this issue by putting

00:53:10.480 up what I view as an artificial piece of legislation to say that a Republicans shot it down when the

00:53:15.280 real failure is to enforce the laws that are already on the books. And I think that that's

00:53:19.540 something achievable. And I think it'll be a win for the country. The nerve to say, oh, they trot this

00:53:24.520 out every four years. This is what the Dems do with some police involved shooting or unfortunate death

00:53:31.540 of a black person being arrested. They trot that out every four years and put it on loop. This is their

00:53:37.620 trick. That's why Rachel Maddow has it at the ready. And she's projecting it onto Republicans

00:53:41.800 saying they do this with immigration. The reason immigration has become the number one issue even

00:53:45.580 amongst Democrats is because of the numbers you just cited, the 12 million who have crossed the

00:53:50.080 southern border. That's why Mayor Eric Adams in New York City just said we have to stop being a

00:53:54.840 sanctuary city now. We can't do it anymore. That's why you have Democratic mayors across the city saying,

00:53:59.520 uncle, uncle, we give up. That's not a Republican talking point. That's happening.

00:54:04.460 Um, they, she can ignore it all she wants in her high rise condo and her multiple houses,

00:54:09.160 however she's living, but the family of Lake and Riley and others are going to have to live

00:54:13.260 with it in a very different way. And it's disgusting that the absence of heart or any

00:54:17.000 empathy they showed there. Um, all right, let me move on. Cause I don't have you for that long.

00:54:20.740 And I want to ask you about this, your battles with the press as you were running for president

00:54:26.380 were among the best we've seen. It was my own personal favorite of just your campaign. You went

00:54:32.760 into the lion's den repeatedly and you were very good at it. And no matter how disdainful the

00:54:38.960 interviewer, this is how we found them. You took them on, you stood your ground and out on the

00:54:44.660 campaign trail, your critics would come and fight with you and you'd welcome them in. You'd say,

00:54:47.640 come inside. Let's have the debate. I want to hear you with the media. You knew how gross they are

00:54:52.280 and you battled them. We put together some highlights that we thought we'd take it down memory

00:54:56.020 lane here. Let's watch. Do you believe punctuality is a vestige of white supremacy, Dasha?

00:55:02.080 Look, because if you don't, then you have a disagreement about many of the people who

00:55:04.700 are defining those terms or the written word or the use or the nuclear family. This is,

00:55:09.380 these aren't my words. These are the words of intellectual proponents from Ibram Kendi

00:55:12.660 to the Iona Presleys to BLM that have said, these are vestiges of white supremacy. So

00:55:16.940 we can't have it both ways. We have to have an honest discussion.

00:55:21.020 As a racist or conspiracy theorist.

00:55:24.900 What's wrong with what's wrong with people of color?

00:55:26.640 First of all, let me just pause right there. Let me just pause right there. This is a legitimate

00:55:30.920 discussion for us to have. And my view is I don't care about skin color.

00:55:33.620 That language, they live like vermin. Do you believe that that is, as your Republican colleague

00:55:40.440 Chris Christie has said, neo-Nazi rhetoric?

00:55:42.960 This is a classic mainstream media move. Pick some individual phrase of Donald Trump.

00:55:51.540 Focus on literally that word without actually interrogating the substance of what's at issue.

00:55:56.680 The word?

00:55:57.180 If you are a black skin and you live in this country, then you can disagree with me. But

00:56:01.380 we're not. You mentioned that there are three different shades of melanin in here.

00:56:03.840 Don, I think we have to be able to talk about these issues in the open, regardless of the

00:56:06.680 color of our skin. Black Americans today to say that, compare that to 1865 and 1964.

00:56:11.400 I think to you to compare it to 1865 and 1964, you have equal rights to this country.

00:56:16.480 So good. All right. So what did you learn, Vivek? Because you were not a stranger to media

00:56:21.140 before you ran for president. You'd been out there, but not in this way. You know, contentious

00:56:25.240 exchange after contentious exchange. So what, how do you view the media now, having been through that

00:56:31.500 washing cycle?

00:56:33.360 Well, so I actually learned to draw a really important distinction, Megan, and you alluded

00:56:38.760 to it where sometimes you'll go to college campus and you'll have somebody who asks a

00:56:42.600 question from the audience or even not a college campus elsewhere who earnestly disagrees with

00:56:47.000 you, maybe even a protester at an event. I view that as largely in a different category

00:56:52.380 from the so-called disagreements you get from much of the mainstream media, because one of

00:56:56.680 those is earnest and the other of those is cynical. And so the way I think to deal with

00:57:01.840 earnest disagreement is to actually engage your opponent, to give them a chance to speak

00:57:07.520 as long as you get to be heard in return and actually try to change minds. At the very early

00:57:13.120 stages of the campaign, I wrongly approached my interactions with the media with that same

00:57:18.640 assumption of good faith. Probably one thing I would do differently over the course of this

00:57:22.980 campaign, if I were to do it again, is there's all these times you would spend having relationship

00:57:27.300 building or off the record conversations with the person on the other side, treating them

00:57:31.580 as though they're a human being. And many of them maybe individually are, but they're still

00:57:35.060 in organizations that then won't print the kind of reporting that they otherwise are beholden

00:57:39.300 to do. That was a mistake. And so I quickly learned that over the course of the campaign.

00:57:43.180 If you're dealing with a good faith actor who disagrees with you, the right answer is not

00:57:46.780 to shut them down, but to give them the space to actually speak even when they disagree.

00:57:50.400 By contrast, 99 out of a hundred times, when you're dealing with the mainstream press, especially

00:57:56.140 covering someone like a presidential candidate, you have to throw that assumption of a good

00:58:00.680 faith assumption out the door and understand that everything they do is designed to achieve

00:58:05.900 a cynical portrayal of either you or what you stand for, because that's their job. That's

00:58:10.020 their function. That's what their bosses and their organizations and their incentive structures

00:58:13.740 reward. And once you see it that way, you're able to actually smoke that out for the

00:58:18.860 public to see. And I think once the public sees it, that itself is a, I don't mean to

00:58:24.500 be self-important about this, about me or anybody else doing it. That itself is a form of public

00:58:28.240 service right now, revealing and holding the media accountable because the media is supposed

00:58:32.320 to hold the government accountable. When the media fails to do that, the real question

00:58:35.960 is who's holding the media accountable. And it comes back around, I think, to political

00:58:40.200 candidates who were able to see through that smoke screen and call it out. And I tried to do

00:58:44.360 the best job of that I could, especially in that latter half of the campaign.

00:58:47.940 Well, it was very interesting to watch because you went everywhere and did battle, as I say,

00:58:52.040 in the lion's den. DeSantis did something else. He said, we're not dealing with these people.

00:58:56.380 They're not honest brokers. I'm not even going to deal with them until his campaign was really

00:59:00.420 flailing. And then he said, okay, I'll go everywhere. I'll try it. And kind of went back to

00:59:04.600 the DeSantis we saw during COVID, where he was much more pugilistic. He would engage.

00:59:08.560 But it was too late. So we know that, to pugilistic, that would be a fair term for Donald

00:59:14.160 Trump. So what does he do with this media that you and I are describing from this point forward?

00:59:19.560 I mean, I've never seen a media so dedicated to defeating a candidate. I mean, notwithstanding

00:59:23.900 their own self-interest, they know their numbers are going to go up if he wins.

00:59:26.840 They are going to do their level best to ruin him over the next nine months. So what would you

00:59:32.040 advise him to do now? I'd say stay the course. Because at this point, especially in the media's

00:59:36.680 relationship with Donald Trump, the people of this country have seen through the act for what it is.

00:59:43.180 And so in some ways, the more that mainstream press, especially against the backdrop of these

00:59:47.660 politicized prosecutions, is unfairly depicting Trump, I think people have now been trained to

00:59:52.420 see through it. I don't think people are sheep, not forever, at least, Megan. And so in 2015,

00:59:56.880 that might have been one thing. I think today, I think most people understand, fool me once,

01:00:01.660 shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. And understand a lot of what they've been fed about the

01:00:06.240 Russia collusion hoax was a lie. The next lie they're fed, they're not going to be force-fed

01:00:10.880 that and swallowing quite as easily. They see through these prosecutions. I mean, look at the

01:00:15.280 likes of Alvin Bragg or Fannie Willis, or the likes of, you know, even just the other prosecutors who

01:00:20.300 are bringing these cases. These aren't the luminaries who we once thought they were presented to be.

01:00:25.060 Letitia James. I mean, think about just Fannie Willis, Letitia James, Alvin Bragg. You hear these

01:00:30.800 people actually speak and make their case or look at the history of what they've said, and then look at the

01:00:34.380 way they're bringing these cases against Trump. I think people are able to see for themselves and

01:00:38.560 draw their own conclusions what's behind this. And the same goes for the media's prosecution of

01:00:43.280 Trump as well. And so my advice would be, don't really fall for the bait of falling into the trap

01:00:50.120 of airing the grievance against the media, because I think people already have that native grievance for

01:00:55.220 themselves of having been duped once eight years ago by a press that lied to them. And again, even four

01:01:00.480 years ago that suppressed stories that they were told were false, Russian disinformation, like the

01:01:05.480 Hunter Biden laptop story, or the fact that COVID or the origin was actually in a lab in China,

01:01:10.560 people have been lied to enough that I think people have a good sixth sense now, much of our

01:01:14.900 electorate does, to see that if that media is actually going after Trump with that agenda driven

01:01:20.260 of an angle, in some ways it has a reactionary backlash that could cause many independents to

01:01:25.180 actually run to Trump rather than away from him. And so I think in that sense, at least,

01:01:29.420 he's going to be in a good spot. It's already happening. So how about you? You were very,

01:01:36.520 very busy over the past year and a half. I mean, you were running for president. You were everywhere.

01:01:41.800 You went to every event. You spoke so many different places. You were doing a podcast at the same time.

01:01:45.360 You still have your companies. You're a family man. I'm exhausted just thinking about it, Vivek.

01:01:49.920 Honestly, I can't. So now it's somewhat the calm after the storm. I know you're out there

01:01:56.080 stumping for Trump and talking to him and his team, but it's got to be instead of zero to 60,

01:02:02.080 60 to maybe 30. So how's that feeling for you? What does life look like now?

01:02:07.640 So I'm not natural in this new temporary habitat I've been in the last six weeks, but I have really

01:02:13.020 enjoyed a lot of time taken with the family, maybe making up, if I'm being honest with it,

01:02:17.140 for I think especially in the late part of last year, my kids are young and we don't get that time

01:02:22.320 forever. And so now I'm doubling down and really making sure that we're getting the extra time

01:02:28.360 that we might've missed in December and January. But I am enjoying that and relishing that for what

01:02:33.860 it is. Look, a lot is going to depend on what happens in the next 10 months. I'm intensely focused

01:02:38.380 on making sure Donald Trump is elected decisively as the next president. I'm doing whatever I can to

01:02:44.240 be helpful on that front. And I hope to be involved in whatever future that entails in the next

01:02:49.120 administration. But I think we can't take that for granted. I've also learned over the course of

01:02:54.320 my life, politics aside, Megan, that whenever I have made elaborate personal plans for myself,

01:03:00.240 and I've lived in phases of my life where I've done this, you know, okay, if thing X goes this way,

01:03:05.300 then I'm going to do that. If not, I'm going to do this. It never works out according to that plan.

01:03:09.800 Anyway, most of your plans are stupid, or at least most of mine have been stupid when it comes to

01:03:14.500 long-term life planning. And so, you know, I'm at my best where I'm called by a sense of purpose and

01:03:20.020 the same purpose that led me to run for president, which is my level of care and love of this country

01:03:25.280 and gratitude to this country, right? I'm not in a phase of my life where I need to accumulate more

01:03:29.840 things for myself. To the contrary, this country has allowed my wife and I both independently and

01:03:35.660 together to have lived an American dream that either of our parents would have never imagined when

01:03:40.720 they came to this country. That's what called me to run for president, to have the biggest possible

01:03:45.320 impact that I could by using the gifts that I've been given. The people of this country made a clear

01:03:50.360 decision that it's going to be Donald Trump leading the Republican Party to do that next.

01:03:54.640 But whatever I do next, I think is going to still be guided by that same purpose. And to tell you the

01:04:00.060 truth, whatever specific form it takes, I'm open to that. Inside government, be that after Trump's

01:04:05.780 reelected and be it outside government in the meantime, even this next year, there's a lot of impact to be had.

01:04:10.520 And so I started Strive a few years ago. I'm proud of everything that Strive has accomplished.

01:04:16.120 I have written a number of books. I enjoy writing. Maybe I'll write another one, even if it's not

01:04:20.560 published, even if it's just for me. Writing is something that helps me, I think, anchor what my

01:04:25.360 actual convictions are. And spending time with family, that's going to be plenty for a number of

01:04:30.860 months ahead. You know, in a way, it was a blessing not to win and certainly not to win the presidency at

01:04:36.940 this young age, because I look at somebody like Barack Obama or even Bill Clinton back in his day,

01:04:42.080 and I almost feel like it came too soon for them. I'm all for young presidents. Don't get me wrong.

01:04:46.460 I mean, we look at what's happening with Joe Biden now, but but what happens when it's over?

01:04:51.700 You know, Barack Obama is kind of kicking around out there. Like he did a podcast, which is fine.

01:04:56.140 Obviously, I have nothing against podcasts, but like he was the president of the United States for eight

01:05:00.160 years. He was the leader of the free world. Bill Clinton's got the Clinton initiative.

01:05:04.200 I just I think it's very hard to find that level of adrenaline flow and achievement and fulfillment

01:05:10.380 once you've had at a very young age. So I my own hope for you is that you continue with your

01:05:15.800 businesses and maybe you continue in government, you know, serving in a Trump administration,

01:05:19.060 what have you, and that you throw your hat back in the ring at a point where there's not so much

01:05:24.840 runway on the other side that everything else is a disappointment. It's an interesting perspective,

01:05:30.260 Megan. I've always lived my life in chapters where the chapters that I'm in are not necessarily

01:05:37.240 resembling the chapters that came before. And so, you know, I thought about that before running for

01:05:41.180 president. And I would have I would have been if I was elected this time after two terms, I would

01:05:44.880 have been, what, 48 when I left the White House. Our kids wouldn't our kids wouldn't even be in high

01:05:50.220 school yet. And so that's amazing. Are you going to the movies yet? I like I always forget just how

01:05:55.300 young you are. No rated R movies. No, we're we're four years old. My my older son just turned four.

01:06:02.520 We took him to the Daytona 500 as his gift. And so he he was thrilled about that. My younger son is

01:06:08.160 about a year and a half. And so that's it. Are you 39? I keep forgetting exactly. I'll be I'll be 39 in

01:06:14.740 August. Yeah, it's a baby. Such a baby. You have so much you can do. It's insane to me that you've

01:06:21.140 done as much as you've done at 39 that you're the kind of person that makes my assistant Abigail

01:06:25.760 fine and depressed. Right. I'll tell you, you know, you look, look to Thomas Jefferson or look to

01:06:31.760 Alexander Hamilton. He was Alexander Hamilton was 21 or 22 when he was one of our founding fathers.

01:06:37.160 Thomas Jefferson was 33 when he wrote the declaration. Well, one thing is people are living

01:06:41.160 longer. What happened to that? Let's let's start with that. Life expectancy has gone up. Although

01:06:44.940 Jefferson lived, I think, well into his early 80s. I think part of what's happened is we have this

01:06:51.060 culture that tells you you're not allowed to do certain things because you're in certain lanes

01:06:55.840 at certain times. And think about Benjamin Franklin, right? The guy invented the Franklin stove.

01:07:00.240 He invented the lightning rod. It was actually a major discovery at the time. The Franklin stove was

01:07:04.760 a big breakthrough in the field of thermodynamics. He invented the bifocal spectacle.

01:07:08.740 Absolutely. Dabbled in a remedy for the common cold. And he was a co-signer of the Declaration

01:07:14.940 of Independence. I think if you look at Thomas Jefferson, the same thing, the polygraph,

01:07:18.740 the swivel chair. There's a number of inventions that are credited to Thomas Jefferson. Nearly

01:07:23.440 bankrupted himself, by the way, spending even on the library, public libraries in the United States

01:07:29.080 to the wine cellar in the White House. Today, you have public officials trying to enrich themselves

01:07:33.300 privately. Here, this guy was using his limited private fortune, almost bankrupted himself

01:07:37.780 several times over through his public service for the country, the Lewis and Clark.

01:07:42.380 And don't forget Betsy Ross.

01:07:43.180 Sending people out West.

01:07:44.300 Betsy Ross, right? Of course, your son won't forget Betsy Ross today, right?

01:07:47.700 And so I think we're in a moment where we can bring back that founding spirit, especially for

01:07:52.860 young people to tell them, your son included, and the people in that play with them, that you can

01:07:57.220 achieve anything you want in this country. You don't have to be some expert that has a degree in

01:08:02.560 whatever you're doing at a given time. You don't even have to define yourself based on what you do.

01:08:08.320 You can actually define what you do based on who you actually are. And that might be something

01:08:13.020 different at different phases of your life. Be it an entrepreneur, a U.S. president, a parent,

01:08:17.480 or a grandparent, you can have different phases of your life where you do different ones of those

01:08:21.760 things. And so I was never worried about what came after the post-presidency, personally. But

01:08:26.840 suffice to say, I take your well wishes in a good sense. And I'm not going in. Yeah, silver lining.

01:08:31.920 Is what I'll tell you. Yeah. Good. Well, and by that, what we really mean to say is you're going

01:08:36.620 everywhere. And we look forward to watching it and covering it. Vivek, all the best to you.

01:08:41.300 Good seeing you. Thanks, Maggie. Likewise. Well, so great to talk to him, right? So I actually kind

01:08:47.240 of love it when they get off the campaign trail and they go back to like normal human. That's not a

01:08:51.480 politician where we can just have normal conversations. You know, everything changes when people run for

01:08:54.740 president. And as a journalist, you have to, you have to treat him differently, but it's great to

01:08:58.260 have him back on because we started friends. Wonderful to see him. Thanks for listening to

01:09:06.160 The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 06, 2024

Trump's Huge Win, Haley Drops Out, and MSNBC Melts Down, with Vivek Ramaswamy and Rich Lowry ｜ Ep. 739

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