The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump's Massive Bronx Rally, and Nathan Wade's New Lies, with Jesse Kelly, Andy McCarthy, and Phil Holloway

00:00:00.640 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.040 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:16.080 While I have you, I'm going to start the news in one second, but I want to tell you that this week

00:00:20.820 we taped a show for Monday, which is Memorial Day. And as we do every year, we sat down with

00:00:26.560 a veteran and talked about his experience and who he is and his thoughts on life and our

00:00:32.320 politics and our country and so on. And this week it was Sean Ryan, who has a very successful

00:00:39.760 podcast of his own, who's a former Navy SEAL, former CIA contractor. And I have not been able to stop

00:00:47.200 thinking about Sean Ryan since I sat down with him. It's not like he was in tears and we had this,

00:00:55.700 you know, it wasn't that it was just him. Um, all I want to tell you is I know you'll be busy on

00:01:04.160 Memorial Day, but if you get some time, download it and listen to it. Or if you come back on Tuesday

00:01:10.140 morning and you know, you're looking for some content because most people will be off on Monday

00:01:14.240 and they will not have pre-taped a show for you, download it. Uh, he is a special guy.

00:01:20.720 I just listened to it and check it out for yourself and would love to hear your thoughts

00:01:26.080 after you do. Uh, you can email them to me, Megan at Megan Kelly.com. Okay. Um, former president

00:01:33.140 Donald Trump, he held a campaign rally in the Bronx last night. As you know, he's had to stick

00:01:39.020 around the New York area because of this trial and it was pretty extraordinary. We'll get to why

00:01:44.120 and the pictures of it in just a bit, but we were expecting by now, this is Friday, of course,

00:01:50.140 to have received critical information from judge Mershon in president Trump's business records

00:01:55.120 trial. Earlier this week, the judge indicated he would release jury instructions by Thursday night.

00:02:00.320 That's last night. Jury instructions are the guidelines given by the judge to the jury about

00:02:05.020 the law. They are going to have to apply to reach a decision in the case. And ideally we'd like to see

00:02:10.200 the verdict form too. How is it going to be laid out? What are the choices going to be, uh, for the

00:02:15.560 jury? The way those things are crafted determines how the case is decided folks. There's nothing more

00:02:19.980 important, but even though the judge promised that these would be released last night as of now

00:02:25.720 crickets. So what does that mean ahead of closing arguments on Tuesday? Joining me now, two of our

00:02:33.100 favorite legal all-stars, Andy McCarthy, former chief assistant U S attorney and a national review

00:02:38.760 contributing editor and Phil Holloway, legal analyst and host of inside the law YouTube show.

00:02:46.460 Andy, Phil, welcome back to you both. So why wouldn't these, I'll start with you on it, Phil,

00:02:52.860 be made public? Why aren't we entitled to see the jury instructions? This is our courtroom.

00:02:58.240 This judge works for us and this proceeding is public. This isn't a secret what the jury is going

00:03:04.320 to be instructed. Why don't we get to see it? Well, great to be with you again, as always, Megan,

00:03:09.340 look, you only think he works for us. He works for his own interests. Apparently the jury charges,

00:03:16.140 as you mentioned, are very critical because this is the instructions the jury will have with them

00:03:22.700 in the jury room when they're trying to figure out what in the world, I can't even figure out exactly

00:03:27.620 what the state's theory of the case is. But this man, and I'm speaking of Merchant here,

00:03:33.700 he has shown every step of the way, in my view, that he's literally standing on the scales, tipping

00:03:39.420 it in favor of Alvin Bragg. I don't expect that he's going to release the jury charges. He doesn't

00:03:44.960 have to. He has to give them to the parties, of course, and they can suggest last minute revisions

00:03:50.700 and edits. But unless we get it from any of the lawyers on the case, I am not going to hold my

00:03:56.680 breath waiting on Merchant to allow any more sunshine to get into this case. Sunshine being

00:04:04.540 the best disinfectant because the whole thing reeks right now. He's going to keep this as

00:04:09.360 non-transparent as he possibly can so that the public is going to be left in the dark, I'm afraid.

00:04:15.060 What could be more important, Andy? This is it. The whole case comes down to how he instructs the

00:04:23.300 jury and, as I said, the verdict form that walks them through exactly what they're going to have to

00:04:28.520 answer. Well, nothing could be more important, Megan, but I think he's not releasing it for a

00:04:35.100 reason that's both obvious and alarming, it seems to me. And that is because his refusal to release it

00:04:44.260 underscores how ridiculous it is to have the evidence in a case close on Tuesday and then send

00:04:53.460 the jury home until the following Tuesday to marinate for a week in the publicity. And what

00:05:00.240 he would say to anyone who made that argument is that, no, no, no, I've instructed them. They're not

00:05:06.520 to look at publicity in connection with the case. If he didn't think that was an illusory instruction,

00:05:13.400 he would just release the jury charge. But he knows that when he releases the jury charge,

00:05:20.000 it's going to generate a great deal of commentary and controversy about what's gone on in this case.

00:05:27.240 As we know, because we've tracked this so closely, Alvin Bragg, the district attorney, elected Democrat

00:05:34.240 in Manhattan, has been very cagey from the very beginning. He didn't want to put the so-called

00:05:39.660 other crime that elevates this into a felony in the indictment. The judge hasn't made him do that.

00:05:47.420 He's been cagey to this day about planting his feet about what the theory is. And he's still

00:05:53.820 allowed to be cagey. And the judge is helping him. So if they put the charge out, we're all going to

00:06:00.140 know what the, you know, he's finally going to have to plant his feet and say, this is the other

00:06:04.860 crime. And there's going to be an explosion of publicity about that. And the judge knows that,

00:06:11.740 you know, he sent the jury home with instructions. But you really think that all 18 jurors, the 12

00:06:17.700 jurors and six alternates, nobody is going to be exposed to publicity about the jury charge and the

00:06:24.200 and finally getting the government's theory of the case. I just think he's showing that he knows very

00:06:30.700 well that it was idiotic, that it was in terms of like how you manage a trial. It was ridiculous to

00:06:36.820 send a jury home for a week. How about that, Phil? These the jury, a lot of our viewers have written

00:06:42.580 in saying, why isn't the jury sequestered at this point? They're going home for one of the biggest

00:06:46.900 weekends of the year for holidays, for seeing family, ideally for remembering our veterans, too.

00:06:53.300 But that's Memorial Day weekend tends to be very busy and very social. And so the odds of these

00:06:59.720 jurors, all of whom live in Manhattan, not bumping into dozens of people who say guilty, right? Don't

00:07:07.640 forget. Don't forget us next week. Do the right thing. Only democracy is riding on this. I mean,

00:07:13.140 they're going to run into several of those people. Well, I understand that, you know, there's the

00:07:18.000 holiday weekend and that sort of thing, but it's preposterous to wait an entire week between when

00:07:24.200 every side rested and to come back for closing arguments. It's just, to me, it makes no real

00:07:31.200 sense. There's got to be a way to have managed this trial logistically so that this would not happen.

00:07:36.800 You know, they're going to be watching the news. And of course, if he were to release those jury

00:07:41.560 charges, people like me and Andy and you and others in the media would be able to pick it apart.

00:07:47.800 And I'm sure we would be able to expose it for what it is. It's my understanding that he may not

00:07:53.140 even make them agree on what the so-called other crime is. I guess you can pick from a smorgasbord

00:07:58.500 of other crimes, whichever one you think might fit if you're on the jury. But in any event, over this

00:08:05.080 long weekend, these people are exposed not only to the media, but they're exposed to their family,

00:08:10.800 their friends, their co-workers, and everybody knows they're on the Trump trial. And we all know that

00:08:16.560 jurors oftentimes don't listen to the judge's instructions. They do talk about the case. They

00:08:21.980 do listen to what their friends and their family say. And look, if you were in a Trump-hating

00:08:26.640 office building, let's say, and you're exposed to your co-workers, you're going to feel immense

00:08:33.060 pressure, social pressure, to conform and do what your co-workers and your peers might want you to do

00:08:40.360 because everybody else there sort of hates Trump. And this is the problem that I've had all along

00:08:45.940 with this case where the jury's not being sequestered. Of course, it's expensive. It costs

00:08:51.960 money. But look, this is what justice requires. The criminal justice system, if it's not fundamentally

00:08:58.320 fair, it's not a justice system. It's simply a system. Substantive due process means fundamental

00:09:04.560 fairness. And every step of the way, this judge has gone out of his way to make this an unfair trial.

00:09:11.240 Think about compare and contrast what happened with the witness Costello, Bob Costello, and he's

00:09:16.940 just in rapid fire sustaining objections without asking what the basis for the objection even is or

00:09:23.360 giving the other side a chance to respond. Contrast that with Stormy Daniels and all of the salacious

00:09:28.700 information that he let come in, most of the time over objection. And so you can just see instance

00:09:35.180 after instance after instance. And this thing with the jury charges is just the latest instance of

00:09:40.460 extreme judicial bias. I think it's just unconscionable the way this judge is behaving.

00:09:46.180 So we're going to get to Costello and how they wrapped up this case in a second. But I do want to,

00:09:50.240 I was going to, I was going to say this because we have a discussion about Fannie Willis coming up in

00:09:53.120 just a bit. She's on a media tour. So is Nathan Wade. I'm actually dying to get Phil's take on this.

00:09:57.600 But I'm going to play it for you, Andy, because we pulled this soundbite from The View. And Sunny

00:10:03.320 Hauston is a former federal prosecutor. And every once in a while, she'll say something that makes

00:10:08.600 sense because she has some knowledge of the law, though she's so hard partisan. It just clouds

00:10:14.920 everything. But listen to this particular soundbite. They're reacting to the media tour of Fannie in

00:10:22.000 particular, I think, here. And they're, she's angry. She's angry at her over the risks of having

00:10:30.840 this affair with Nathan Wade. And I'm going to tie it together with the Trump New York trial at the

00:10:36.160 end. But just listen to the soundbite. My father told me when I first started out in the business

00:10:41.740 community that, listen, an office romance is professional suicide. I think that this was one

00:10:48.220 of the biggest unforced errors almost in our nation's history. You do not have an office

00:10:54.400 affair when our very democracy is on the line and you can do something to prevent it from going

00:11:02.920 over the edge. It was a stupid, stupid thing to do. But, you know, love is funny. Yeah. Or lust is

00:11:10.180 funny. Both are funny. Because you, you, you can't always predict it. And then you're thinking and

00:11:19.240 you suddenly are in it and you think, oh my God, I don't want to be here. Can you fall in love after

00:11:22.880 you save democracy, though? So there, look at the, look at the consternation at Fannie and Nathan for

00:11:31.560 having an extramarital affair in his case, because they needed to save democracy. Think about how these

00:11:39.020 people and others like them around Manhattan, around the country are going to react if any single

00:11:46.100 juror is the holdout. And you and I both know the overwhelming odds are that all 18 of these jurors

00:11:53.800 and the alternates are Democrats and probably active Democrats and probably read the New York

00:12:00.020 Times every day. And probably most of the people they know and hang out with are Democrats that this

00:12:05.320 is the kind of pressure, right? You're there to save democracy. That's what these trials are about.

00:12:13.860 Well, first off, the view can spare me and their two viewers the talk and the hyperbole

00:12:21.640 about democracy being on the line. I mean, that's just outright propaganda. Fannie Willis, if you believe

00:12:28.740 Robin Yurdy, who testified at the disqualification hearing, that affair started back as early as 2019

00:12:34.860 before she even took office. So if you, if you look at this in the bigger context, if that's true,

00:12:40.540 she and Nathan Wade were already an item. And by the time she took office or was elected, I guess,

00:12:46.020 in the transition period, he was running her transition team, according to testimony we heard

00:12:51.520 yesterday. So he's been part and parcel of all of this from the very beginning. Of course, she's going

00:12:57.840 to bring him into it because- Well, yeah, but I'm not trying to get a comment on Fannie. We're going

00:13:02.340 to do that in a minute. I'm like this. Let me bring it to you, Andy. You see my point, right? That

00:13:07.140 that you, Sonny Hostin inadvertently there just lays out the whole stakes of these criminal

00:13:13.620 prosecutions in the eyes of Democrats. And the same judgment that applies to Nathan and Fannie for

00:13:19.440 putting it at risk is going to apply to any juror who doesn't do the quote right thing and find this

00:13:27.320 guy guilty so he can be stopped. Yeah, well, look, I'm glad you're not asking me to recuse myself

00:13:34.580 because I met my wife of 31 years when we were both prosecutors in the U.S. Attorney's Office.

00:13:40.360 But, you know, look, you can't, I've taken the last couple of days, Megan, to actually read the

00:13:48.040 transcript. And I actually wish I had had more time to do it earlier. But they're pushing the

00:13:58.700 envelope in various ways that you would never do in a normal case, because the ethos of this whole

00:14:08.960 thing is that they're on a higher mission, that this is about removing, you know, this obstacle,

00:14:16.720 this threat to democracy. And this is like across the board, people who, you know, people who are

00:14:23.060 normally or in my experience with them or reading about them or commenting on them have always seemed

00:14:30.760 to be, you know, sensible or at least borderline sensible in the past. All of that prudence and

00:14:38.140 caution has gone out the window in order to get this done. I think that, you know, we were talking

00:14:44.320 a second about the jury leaving for a week. I think part of the reason is they want the reason that he

00:14:53.540 gave him a week off is they want Trump convicted. And it's it's simply well known that when there are

00:15:02.540 when there are scheduling problems in a trial and jurors are inconvenienced, they generally don't

00:15:07.540 hold that against the defendant, because the defendant is not a voluntary participant in the

00:15:12.360 proceedings. In this case, they would hold that against the prosecutors, and they would hold it

00:15:17.360 against the judge who was taken every Wednesday off in the trial, the jury would realize they wouldn't

00:15:21.820 need to be sequestered and sitting over Memorial Day if it hadn't been for the way the prosecutors and

00:15:27.420 the judge organized this case. So he gave them a week off because if you don't give them a week off

00:15:33.380 and they get angry, they might that may be the kind of thing that would cut to Trump's benefit. And

00:15:38.680 nothing in this case is allowed to cut to Trump's benefit. I actually think that the enormous hole in

00:15:46.600 the case is that the other crime, I think we should assume, is a federal campaign finance violation,

00:15:55.780 no matter which theory you you cut, that's what they're that's where they're going, right? So in

00:16:00.560 going through the evidence, I don't think there's a shred of evidence that Trump was even thinking

00:16:05.460 about the campaign finance laws until the Federal Election Commission sent a letter to Michael Cohen

00:16:12.920 in February of 2018, which is long after all the acts that have been alleged as crimes in the case

00:16:19.460 took place. So there's no evidence they were even thinking about this. And Merchant knows

00:16:25.560 that the evidence of Michael Cohen's guilty plea and of David Pecker's entering into a non-prosecution

00:16:33.540 agreement is inadmissible against Trump. And yet he let the prosecutors not only open on those things,

00:16:40.440 he let them say it time and time and time again, that Cohen had pled guilty, that Pecker had entered

00:16:49.220 this arrangement with the Justice Department, that AMI, Pecker's company, had paid a fine to the

00:16:56.740 Federal Election Commission. And each time the prosecutors refer to it as the crime they committed

00:17:02.340 with Trump and the crime that Trump directed them to permit. Now Merchant knows, as well as the three

00:17:09.580 of us do, that that is not admissible evidence. It's utterly improper evidence. And he let it in on the

00:17:15.840 pretext that it was necessary for the jury to weigh the credibility of Cohen and Pecker, which is

00:17:23.000 preposterous because they're government witnesses. The government has no interest in impeaching their own

00:17:29.280 witnesses and testing the credibility of their own witnesses. That's the benefit of the defense.

00:17:34.580 And the defense didn't want that information in because it's obviously galactically prejudicial

00:17:40.540 against Trump. And so is exactly the jury confusion that we have in the case.

00:17:46.780 It's working. That's working. Because you may have seen, I interviewed Bill Maher earlier this week,

00:17:52.020 and I think he's an honest broker. He's a liberal, of course, and he doesn't like Trump at all,

00:17:57.060 but he's not a dishonest guy. But he was confused about it. He said in the interview,

00:18:01.900 Michael Cohen went to jail for three years for a campaign finance violation. And I said,

00:18:09.800 no, he didn't. And no, he didn't, Bill. He did not. That was tacked on at the end on top of these

00:18:16.040 other crimes he was pleading guilty to that were already sending him to prison, like the taxi

00:18:20.000 medallion and the tax. But my point is that if the Bill Maher's of the world believe that, who I think,

00:18:26.900 even though he hates Trump, I think he's searching for actual info, though clearly in the wrong places

00:18:32.440 sometimes, that they believe, and I'll bet you the jury believes, Michael Cohen went to jail for

00:18:37.740 three years for this so-called underlying crime he committed, quote, with Trump.

00:18:43.180 Yeah, look, the due process protections that they are bulldozing to get this guy,

00:18:48.740 those are our due process protections. And if they could take them out against Trump,

00:18:55.280 they can take them out against anyone. And that's what ought to have people upset. Look,

00:18:59.920 I don't care if Trump commits a serious crime. It's fine by me if he gets convicted.

00:19:05.400 What I'm jacked up about with respect to this thing is it's a due process travesty. They are making

00:19:11.780 up a crime, and they're politicizing the system to get their political enemies. And if people think

00:19:18.060 that Trump is their only political enemy and that this is all sui generis and they would only do it

00:19:24.560 against Trump and never against anyone else, you're out of your mind.

00:19:29.060 So, Phil, the way this is going is the prosecution is going to argue, you know,

00:19:35.380 everybody has the closing arguments on Tuesday, that the Access Hollywood tape came out in October

00:19:43.100 of 16. There was a total freak out and panic on the campaign that that's when Stormy came forward

00:19:50.240 and threatened to go public with their alleged affair, that Trump had a meltdown over it saying

00:19:55.000 there was testimony. Guys may think this is actually kind of cool, but the women are going

00:20:00.040 to hate it and hate me. And I can't have this get out, pay her off $130,000. That's why Michael

00:20:07.480 Cohen took out the home loan and paid her the $130,000, and that it was agreed per handwritten

00:20:16.040 notes by Allen Weisselberg, the CFO of the Trump Organization, who was not called to testify by

00:20:20.580 anyone, who's sitting in Rikers right now, that Cohen would be repaid in the amounts that we've

00:20:27.440 all gone over, $130,000 times two, so that they could take out the taxes of it. Then the $50,000,

00:20:33.480 he allegedly reimbursed this group, Red Finch, which did polling on Trump, which we'll get to in a

00:20:38.420 minute. You know, we've talked about this before, but it was a lie, and he defrauded Trump out of

00:20:41.880 some $60,000, we'll explain in a second, and then some other monies in there. And that this was all

00:20:48.140 agreed by Trump, by Allen Weisselberg, by Cohen. Trump blessed it and understood that it was going

00:20:55.280 to be repaid under a, quote, retainer agreement with Michael Cohen as his lawyer in 2017 through 18,

00:21:01.420 even though Trump knew very well Michael Cohen wasn't going to be doing much legal work, if any,

00:21:06.120 for him over that time. This wasn't retainer for legal expenses or services. It was a reimbursement.

00:21:12.600 We have Trump tweets that say it was a reimbursement. He uses that word.

00:21:19.620 And so I'm giving you all the things that the jury's going to be sold in the prosecution's closing.

00:21:24.840 And so Trump knew. He ordered the payment. He understood how it was going to be documented.

00:21:29.700 He understood it was going to be falsely documented. And he also understood that this was

00:21:36.380 to help his campaign. That was his main goal, to help his campaign, because women were going to hate

00:21:42.740 this news and information about him. And somehow that makes it a campaign finance violation,

00:21:49.100 notwithstanding what we all know about campaign finance violations at this point. It doesn't matter

00:21:52.960 what was in his head. Only matters the nature of the payment. Guarantee that will not appear in any

00:21:57.780 jury instruction. They're going to show the jury. I mean, I just pulled him for fun.

00:22:02.740 Trump checks that say retainer with Donald Trump's signature on them. They say retainer,

00:22:09.420 and they're going to say that was a lie. It wasn't a retainer. It was reimbursement. They're going to

00:22:14.340 show the jury, the Allen Weisselberg handwritten notes that, that show the monies laid out.

00:22:21.120 And that's the entirety of the case. There it is. Chicken scratch. Weisselberg shows the plus 50

00:22:29.880 paid to Red Finch. And it's got the, all the numbers laid out there for Cohen and what he would

00:22:37.020 get. That's their case. And if the jury believes Michael Cohen, that Trump blessed it, that he had

00:22:43.700 a phone call with Trump, that Trump was at that Weisselberg meeting and that they got explicit about how

00:22:48.920 this is going to go down. They have enough to convict based on the way this jury instruction

00:22:55.260 is likely going to be fed to them with wrong descriptions of the law. Am I wrong?

00:23:00.340 No, I think you're right. And see, it doesn't matter because Trump, first off, it's okay for

00:23:06.180 a political candidate to do things to help their campaign. It's okay for a campaign to do things

00:23:12.200 to influence an election. That's what campaigns do. Andy's point about this case being a

00:23:18.880 due process travesty is very, very well taken. This, what you just went through, Megan,

00:23:25.340 shows clearly why the jury really needed to hear from a campaign finance expert. And we know that,

00:23:33.160 of course, the judge has his thumb on the scale in favor of Alvin Bragg, and of course,

00:23:38.980 would have curtailed this man's testimony to the point that it would have been absolutely useless.

00:23:44.860 That in and of itself, I think, is reversible error. You've got to let a criminal defendant

00:23:50.040 put on a defense, and you've got to let expert witnesses give opinion testimony when they know

00:23:57.040 more about a subject than the layperson on the jury knows. So the judge was wrong about all of that.

00:24:03.460 He's going to be wrong in how he sets up his jury instructions, no doubt. And at the end of the day,

00:24:09.720 when Donald Trump wrote a check to Michael Cohen or Michael Cohen's law firm for purposes of even if

00:24:19.020 it was to reimburse him to pay for a non-disclosure agreement, those are legal expenses. And when

00:24:26.640 you're a bookkeeper at the Trump organization or whatever, and you've got a drop-down menu for

00:24:31.140 how do you categorize these things, you just put it in there in whatever way makes the most sense.

00:24:37.940 And it doesn't mean that it's a falsified business record. You can parse these things

00:24:43.880 every way from Sunday, but at the end of the day, Donald Trump, even if he made a campaign

00:24:48.700 contribution, he's allowed to do that without limitations, I understand.

00:24:53.240 But Michael Cohen's not.

00:24:54.460 They needed to hear from this.

00:24:56.100 There's a cap on what Cohen could have donated to Trump. That's how they're getting to it.

00:24:59.840 Yeah. Well, so that may be, but at the end of the day, if they're trying to say that Cohen made a

00:25:08.420 campaign contribution that was illegal, well, that's on Cohen. Trump, if the money's coming

00:25:13.140 from him and it's meant to be a campaign contribution, it should be perfectly legal.

00:25:17.440 I don't see the crime.

00:25:19.440 Well, what about that?

00:25:20.440 They're going to say he was in on it and that he was trying to conceal it, right?

00:25:23.980 Because all they have to show is that he was trying to falsify business records in order

00:25:28.220 to conceal an underlying crime.

00:25:32.420 But the other crime is the one that-

00:25:34.520 Wait, let Andy speak it. Go ahead.

00:25:37.500 Well, I think Phil is right about what the caps are, but the crime that they've alleged is causing

00:25:43.520 these other violations.

00:25:45.780 So the way they're going to hook this into the case, more than likely, is this New York

00:25:53.900 election law statute that makes it a crime to conspire by unlawful conduct to affect the

00:26:00.800 outcome of an election or influence an election.

00:26:03.260 So what they're going to say is that it's a conspiracy to defeat the campaign finance laws.

00:26:09.440 And even though Trump, and I expect the defense is going to highlight this because they haven't,

00:26:14.060 the judge hasn't left them with much, they're going to try to say that, look, Trump is the

00:26:18.640 candidate. It doesn't make any difference. He doesn't have any ceiling. But what they'll come

00:26:24.040 back, the prosecutors will come back with, and this will be borne out, I'm sure, by the jury

00:26:29.060 instructions that we're not allowed to see, is that it's alleged that Trump caused Pecker to

00:26:38.000 violate the campaign finance laws in connection with the McDougal non-disclosure agreement.

00:26:44.060 And that he caused Cohen, Cohen, by the way, has already pled guilty to causing Pecker to do it

00:26:50.060 in the federal case. And what they're going to say is that Trump caused both of them to violate

00:26:55.760 their caps. And the one other thing I want to add, Megan, because I think I got this wrong when we

00:27:03.180 were talking with Dave last week, I was puzzled about the checks because I saw pictures of the

00:27:09.620 checks and the checks don't say retainer on them. They just, they don't say anything. And I realize

00:27:14.780 now having read the transcript that the checks came with a stub, you know, Dave and I were in

00:27:20.160 different places and it's the stub that says retainer. So he's right about that.

00:27:24.260 Just to show it up that you can see it, the check is at the bottom with Donald Trump's name

00:27:28.440 and it doesn't say retainer, but the stubs do the retainer retainer. Yep. Keep. Yeah. Well,

00:27:35.140 the, the, all right. So just, just not for nothing guys, but here we are two actual trials,

00:27:41.680 the trial lawyers I'm looking at there. I have also tried cases, but not in the realm of you two.

00:27:46.620 And, um, we still don't know what the hell, what, what this case is about. The jury's about to get

00:27:54.160 the case and we still don't know what's the underlying crime. What exactly was the proof of

00:28:00.320 it? What must he prove? How will the jury verdict form read? How will the instructions read? It's,

00:28:06.320 it's going to be so confusing for these lay people sitting in the jury box to try to figure any of it

00:28:14.200 out, especially without having heard from Brad Smith, the election law expert. But I'll tell you

00:28:19.120 this. I heard on another podcast, it was by the Washington post, something I thought was interesting.

00:28:26.360 And the, the commentator, Washington post analyst said, well, Trump's got a chance because juror number

00:28:35.620 two said he reads truth social for his news. And that made my ears perk up because,

00:28:44.200 if true, that is actually is quite big. Anybody who goes to truth social for their news

00:28:50.140 is hardcore MAGA. So I pulled that juror's profile and it is as follows. Juror number two is a married

00:28:58.820 man who works in investment banking. He has an MBA in finance. He described himself as someone who

00:29:04.980 quote, reads basically everything and said that while he doesn't hold any strong beliefs or opinions,

00:29:10.640 he does follow the news and sees Trump's truth social posts via Twitter. He told the court that

00:29:19.380 he had not read any of Trump's books, but had seen quotes from the art of the deal. Now, gentlemen,

00:29:25.260 if this is Trump's last best hope to stop a guilty verdict, I don't, I don't like his chances,

00:29:34.000 Bill. We all see Trump's truth posts, truth social posts on Twitter. If you get your news from Twitter,

00:29:39.340 you see them there because everyone who is pro Trump will repost them. And also people who are

00:29:44.360 anti-Trump will repost them. If that's his last best hope, I'm concerned.

00:29:51.340 Well, look, I've said all along that I think that this case may very well come down to one or two or

00:29:57.620 maybe three individuals who can at least understand that they have not had any proof beyond a reasonable

00:30:04.760 doubt. They might dislike Trump. They may hate him. They may think, yeah, well, maybe he should be

00:30:09.460 in prison. But if they're intellectually honest and they leave their bias at the door of the courtroom,

00:30:14.980 like they're instructed to do, then we might actually get to a hung jury. And I think that

00:30:20.420 might be the best thing. Look, I mean, when he won like 12% of the vote there, if you take 12% of this

00:30:26.040 jury, and if that 12% maintains their position throughout the deliberations,

00:30:31.100 then it will be a hung jury. But I'm afraid of the judge, however, sending them back time and time

00:30:36.900 and time again. If they come out and they say, we've got questions or we're stuck, we can't,

00:30:40.580 we can't unanimously reach a verdict. He's going to tell them to go back. And it's normal to do that

00:30:45.440 once or twice, or maybe even three times before you give them the so-called dynamite charge.

00:30:50.220 But these people are done. They're tired of this case. They want to get over with. So if the judge

00:30:54.740 keeps saying, go back, go back, keep working, keep working, keep working, at some point,

00:30:59.480 he's going to bully them into reaching a decision. So if you only have one or two individuals that

00:31:05.900 are holding out for not guilty, at some point, the judge is going to wear them down by making

00:31:10.740 them continue to deliberate. And so that could actually push them over into a conviction. The

00:31:15.960 judge has so, so, so much control over this at this point, considering the bias that he's shown,

00:31:21.680 it doesn't bode well for Trump.

00:31:23.020 Well, on the Trump side, Andy, yeah, go ahead.

00:31:27.280 I was just, I am not as down having grown up in, in the city. I'm not as down on Manhattan juries

00:31:36.580 as you guys seem to be. I don't think that it's completely rigged against Trump. I think if you

00:31:44.980 think that 18 people like randomly picked in Manhattan, they all have to, you know, be activist

00:31:51.400 Democrats. You can't say that in one breath. You'd have to say then that you didn't think

00:31:56.540 Trump could draw 18 people at Crotona Park in the Bronx last night. And anybody who saw that rally

00:32:03.180 has to know that there's, you know, Trump doesn't, I'm not, I'm not trying to suggest that New York

00:32:09.400 is great for Trump, but you know, the idea that it's a, it's a total clean sweep against him and that,

00:32:17.600 you know, he couldn't conceivably get favorable jurors on the, on that jury. I'm not buying it

00:32:22.840 until I see it. I just, I just don't think it's so. And I actually think the dynamic that we,

00:32:29.840 you know, look, there's an anti-Trump dynamic here. There's no doubt about it. But the other

00:32:34.020 thing going on in New York is, you know, we have people assault police officers on the street

00:32:39.560 and they're back out on the street in an hour. We have real criminals who don't get prosecuted.

00:32:46.520 We have bragged time and again, taking felonies and either pleading them down to misdemeanors

00:32:52.040 or not prosecuting the cases at all. These people are committing crimes on the streets

00:32:57.440 that these jurors have to go home to. And every day they come to court, the only safe place to be

00:33:03.800 in Manhattan is that courthouse because that's where the cops are. And what they're seeing is

00:33:09.300 they don't have police protection where they want to have it. And they see at Bragg's, at Bragg's

00:33:14.700 prosecution table, the resources being poured into this between the number of prosecutors,

00:33:21.860 the number of investigators, the number of security personnel. If I'm a jury, I'm pretty pissed off about

00:33:27.980 that, I have to say. Because to take this dog's breakfast of a case and throw those kind of

00:33:35.180 resources at it, when we have crime in New York from 2019, you know, the surge in crime beginning

00:33:42.700 in 2019 and the heights that it's at compared to how it was, say, you know, 2015, 2016, that's what

00:33:51.860 people are angry about in New York. And I think it, you know, I'm not convinced that there aren't going

00:33:57.800 to be three or four people, if not more, on that jury who are angry about that.

00:34:03.080 It's amazing. I mean, it did go 87 percent for Joe Biden in 2020. But as you point out, things on

00:34:08.200 the ground in Manhattan have gotten far, far worse since 2020. So there is a chance that even people

00:34:14.540 who pulled the lever for Biden back then are more open minded to Trump. There's a there there's crime

00:34:21.460 all over New York. There's a bigger criminal in the courtroom right now. And his name is Michael

00:34:27.040 Cohen than than Donald Trump even arguably is. And this came out on the cross examination. We

00:34:33.100 talked with our audience about it before, but just getting the transcripts now of what happened

00:34:38.000 when he admit that he admitted that he stole from Trump. Here's a bit of what what was said.

00:34:45.660 OK, it was brought up during direct examination. The prosecutor Hoffinger said, did you pay Red Finch,

00:34:51.900 this company who he was supposed to get to rig some polls for Trump and also create a women for

00:34:56.600 Cohen hashtag on Twitter? OK, she says, did you pay Red Finch less than 50,000 because he sought

00:35:03.420 50,000 reimbursement from Trump? Cohen, I did. Hoffinger, then why did you ask them for 50,000

00:35:09.800 back? Cohen, because I didn't feel like Trump got what he paid for. Hoffinger, were you going to keep

00:35:17.000 the rest for yourself? Cohen, that's what I ended up doing. So she fronted it, but not effectively

00:35:24.760 enough, because when Todd Blanche got up there, I mean, he just ripped him a new one. He got up

00:35:31.920 there and said, so you stole from the Trump organization. Cohen, yes, sir. Blanche, you didn't

00:35:37.260 just steal the 30,000 because he actually only billed Red Finch 20 grand, but he asked Trump for

00:35:44.700 50 grand reimbursement. So he was getting 30,000 in his own pocket. And Blanche is saying, you didn't

00:35:52.340 just steal that 30 because it was grossed up thinking that you would have outlaid 50 grand to

00:35:58.080 this to this company. They paid you back 100 grand and really you'd only outlaid 20. So if they wanted

00:36:05.500 to make you whole, they should have paid you back 40,000, which means you, you stole more than just

00:36:13.160 the 30,000. You stole 60,000 from Donald Trump. Isn't that true? Yes. And they go on to say, hold

00:36:19.260 on. Um, okay, you stole, right? And then did you ever have to plead guilty to larceny? As Todd Blanche,

00:36:29.000 Trump's lawyer. No, sir. Cohen says, I mean, he brought it home absolutely perfectly. And

00:36:35.860 the jury was left with in the final impressions of Cohen seeing not only did he obviously lie

00:36:42.400 about, I think was obvious calling Trump through his bodyguard to allegedly get his approval of the

00:36:50.040 stormy payment. That was made clear by the defense in texts. It really did not seem like the prosecution

00:36:55.480 had seen from Cohen to Keith Schiller, the bodyguard was about Cohen's harassment problem

00:37:02.060 with a 14 year old boy. He was texting him. I've got this problem. I need to speak with you. Where

00:37:06.600 are you? And then he called him for 90 seconds. And now he wants that jury to believe that was so he

00:37:11.600 could talk to Trump and tell him all about the stormy lie, uh, the stormy payment. And it seems like

00:37:16.220 an obvious lie. Um, they've got multiple other lies by Cohen where he was just caught red handed.

00:37:22.620 And he, according to those inside the courtroom, he looked dumbfounded when confronted with his text

00:37:27.520 to Keith Schiller. It did not seem to those in observance inside the room that either he or the

00:37:33.840 prosecution knew those texts were coming, putting the lie to his magic 92nd phone call to Trump.

00:37:41.560 Um, and while he's got Trump on tape agreeing to the Karen McDougal payment, he does not have Trump

00:37:47.080 on tape agreeing to the stormy Daniel payment. The prosecution didn't call in Weisselberg to back

00:37:52.980 Cohen up. It comes down to Michael Cohen and Michael Cohen is not a credible witness in any way,

00:38:00.300 shape or form. Andy, I heard you saying on your podcast on national review with rich,

00:38:05.260 they should have just ended there. Just end with your star witness. The other side star witness

00:38:12.360 admitting he committed larceny. Don't call a single additional witness as the defense.

00:38:20.120 Let that be the jury's last impression before they go home for a week.

00:38:25.560 Yeah, Megan, you know, I think two things. I think, um, this is where you really wish you could

00:38:31.300 be in the courtroom and see how things are, are hitting the jury. Because I have to say,

00:38:38.060 I feel like I was unfair to Susan, uh, Susan Hoffinger. I think it is. Um, and I don't,

00:38:45.260 I hate to say that because I think, you know, going through the whole transcript, I think what

00:38:49.720 they're doing here is so dishonest the way they're putting in this inadmissible evidence. They know

00:38:54.720 it's wrong. The judge knows it's wrong and they're doing it anyway. But I, on our podcast, my podcast,

00:39:01.260 I kind of said, uh, not kind of said, I did say, uh, cause I was relying on the reporting that this

00:39:07.300 was a sensational bombshell of a revelation that came at the end of the cross-examination

00:39:14.960 and that, uh, Blanche had really hit a home run. And I was, I'm going with that based on

00:39:22.060 the reporting, which suggested to me that the jury had first heard about this during, uh, cross.

00:39:29.200 And then it turned out, as you just pointed out, it's not, I don't think she did a great job

00:39:35.540 fronting it, but she got all the underlying facts out. And I was assuming that this made a great impact

00:39:42.000 on the jury because it was the first time they were hearing it. So I now have to say to myself,

00:39:47.500 if it wasn't the first time they were hearing it, and maybe the, you know, the people who were, um,

00:39:53.620 reporting this particular, the people who were sympathetic to Trump, who were reporting it,

00:39:57.520 maybe they were making it into a bigger bombshell than it actually played in the courtroom. I just

00:40:02.480 don't know. Cause I didn't get to see the jury. Uh, and I must say, I thought Costello was going to

00:40:09.040 be a better witness. I think it's unfortunate. He got into the, to the fracas that he got into with

00:40:14.820 the judge. The thing I liked about, well, the thing I liked about Costello or the conception of

00:40:21.880 Costello as a witness is that the government's witnesses were uniformly unsavory. The main

00:40:29.120 witnesses I'm talking about, you know, Stormy, Pecker, Cohen. Uh, and I thought, you know,

00:40:35.280 here's Bob Costello, who's a likable guy and who has made a very nice 50 year career for himself

00:40:41.920 talking to New York juries. Um, and that I thought he would, he would make a much better impression,

00:40:47.660 but I just think he got into it with the judge. Uh, and I don't think it was all his fault as the,

00:40:54.220 as the, uh, reporting suggests, but look, it's the judge's courtroom and you can't be disrespectful

00:40:59.220 to the judge. That's just a bad look, no matter what you're getting disrespectful over. And the

00:41:06.200 thing that I thought he'd bring to the table as a big asset, uh, I'm not sure it worked out that way.

00:41:12.220 Plus it got into all this stuff about Giuliani, which I don't think that really helped the defense

00:41:18.740 at the end. So I guess as you're looking at it, your point is correct that, you know, they should

00:41:24.780 have stopped right there. And then they had beaten up Cohen. They want to look at the jury in the eye

00:41:29.360 at the end and say, we didn't put on a case. Cause after that case that the prosecution put on,

00:41:34.380 we didn't have to do anything. Their own case shows that they have no case. Um, but you know,

00:41:40.740 can't re unring the bell at this point. No. And I mean, we'll show you here's,

00:41:45.060 here's a bit of Costello on Fox last week. He had testified before the grand jury. So Trump was

00:41:50.300 familiar with Costello in his story. He represented Michael Cohen for a time. He'd before he'd been

00:41:54.460 the, I think the chief assistant DA and he was the chief assistant DA. He was, what was he? Was he

00:42:00.480 the chief assistant US attorney? Deputy chief of the criminal division, which is like the number two job

00:42:05.980 in the criminal division. It was a long time ago. It was like 77 to 86 around there, but fine. He

00:42:11.900 knows the, he knows the office. He's very well respected, sober, smart guy. And he was representing

00:42:18.040 Cohen for a period of time. And that's when Cohen made all sorts of admissions about all the stuff

00:42:22.640 he did not have on Donald Trump. He was saying to him, Hey, Matt, now might be a good time to

00:42:27.240 consider using it. If you've got it. And Cohen kept telling him over and over, I got nothing. I got

00:42:31.580 nothing. And so he testified to that in front of the grand jury. Didn't help Trump. He went before

00:42:36.160 Congress two weeks ago while Cohen was on the stand. Didn't help Trump. And he went on Fox and

00:42:41.000 friends or Fox and Trump liked him. And, and I think insisted that they call him. Here's a flavor

00:42:48.220 for how Bob Costello has been sounding and why the Trump team probably thought it was going to be

00:42:53.040 useful to put him in front of the jury. Here's Fox. How I can get out of this because he saw these

00:42:59.220 enormous legal problems coming his way. They were so bad in his mind that he was willing to

00:43:04.760 kill himself. And so I kept on going back and suggesting to him, listen, Michael, if you have

00:43:09.760 something truthful on Donald Trump, now is the time to cooperate. And he kept on saying over and

00:43:17.400 over again, 10 to 20 times, I swear to God, Bob, I don't have anything on Donald Trump. I even said to

00:43:23.320 him, Michael, think about this. Isn't it easier to cooperate against Donald Trump if you have truthful

00:43:28.740 information than it is to kill yourself? Well, the answer is obvious. That was his moment in time.

00:43:34.440 If he had something truthful to say, I'm willing to cooperate, but he didn't take that. He kept on

00:43:40.600 saying, I have nothing on Donald Trump. So as you know, Andy, that's not how it went.

00:43:47.900 When he actually took the stand and testified in court, there was a tension. You guys should listen

00:43:53.620 to Andy's podcast because he goes through the whole history of, you know, tension between federal

00:43:57.480 prosecutors and state prosecutors and sort of the dynamics leading into this moment to judge

00:44:01.980 Mershawn would likely have had a chip on his shoulder about this big federal prosecutor coming

00:44:06.620 in, you know, like he's the, he's the tough guy. And then there was a misunderstanding potentially

00:44:11.960 about him, an objection being sustained and Costello not listening, but Mershawn's a soft talker.

00:44:18.680 But, but really what happened after that is Costello was angry and showed it. And the thing is,

00:44:24.940 Sandy, the jury in all likelihood likes the judge and they probably like the judge a lot more than

00:44:30.400 they like Bob Costello, who they don't know. That's, that's probably right. Um, and I, just one

00:44:37.820 other thing about Costello, which, which I think is part of what got him so hot, Megan, you, you point

00:44:43.540 out that he testified in the grand jury, but it didn't help Trump. And I think Costello's theory about

00:44:50.020 that is he gave the prosecutors a meeting, which he didn't have to do before he went into the grand

00:44:57.100 jury. And he gave him like, he says between two and 300 documents that backed up what he was saying

00:45:03.420 about Cohn, you know, emails, messages, and all that stuff. And then he says, when he went into the grand

00:45:08.820 jury, the prosecutors intentionally didn't ask him the questions that would have elicited the

00:45:15.020 information that he had given them, uh, in his, in their office the day before, and that they cherry

00:45:21.360 picked like two or three documents out of the 300 that he gave them. So he thought that they gave the

00:45:28.920 grand, the grand jury a completely, you know, skewed and dishonest depiction of what he would have

00:45:34.660 been able to say. But this, this should point out to people that the grand, the prosecutors run the

00:45:41.460 grand jury. There's no judge. There's no anything, you know, prosecutor decides what the grand jury

00:45:46.040 hears. And unless the grand jury rebels and they say they want to hear, you know, more evidence and

00:45:51.140 more information, they're going to get whatever version of events the prosecutor decides to give

00:45:55.420 them. So the last impression the jury had fell was of Costello alienating the judge for team Trump

00:46:02.360 on really the one witness they called, they called one like junior lawyer. Um, instead of Michael

00:46:09.760 Cohen admitting he'd committed larceny, he wasn't prosecuted. And by the way, I forgot to read

00:46:15.840 arguably the most interesting part of that cross where Cohen in trying to explain why he stole

00:46:22.500 $60,000 from Trump said as followed as follows. I was angered because of the reduction in my bonus.

00:46:31.300 And so I just felt it was almost like self-help went on from there. It was self-help Phil. How many times

00:46:39.260 have you tried that with your clients? Well, it doesn't. Well, I mean, if I tried it, I'd be in

00:46:43.060 prison, but, uh, same reason, but listen, I would have in hindsight, obviously, which is 2020. Uh,

00:46:50.960 I don't think anybody really could have foreseen that the judge was going to, uh, look, I see it a

00:46:56.800 little differently. I put most of this kerfuffle on judge Mershon and his particular bias, uh, because I

00:47:03.560 also watched that Fox interview. I played it on my show and I think Costello comes across really,

00:47:09.600 really well. He's polished. He's articulate. He does, but he was scoffing at the judge's rulings

00:47:15.140 openly. Well, I mean, I get that point, but I put most of it on the judge. The judge shouldn't have

00:47:20.420 been making the stupid, ridiculous, illegal rulings in the first. Phil's in favor of the scoffing.

00:47:25.900 But no, look, he, he knew, Costello knew that Michael Cohen had lied to this jury. And so normally

00:47:31.840 that's the kind of thing, if you've got a witness that knows a, another witness like Michael Cohen,

00:47:36.720 not only that he's a general liar, but he's lied in this specific case, of course, as a defense

00:47:41.320 lawyer, you're going to want to bring that. But if they had been able to foresee that the prosecutor

00:47:45.780 would have been making objections and the judge was not going to even require them to give a basis

00:47:51.020 for their objection or let the other side even respond, that he was simply going to say, sustain,

00:47:55.920 sustain, sustain before they even got the words out of their mouth. If they had been able to foresee

00:48:00.760 that, they, of course, would not have called it. But I think at the time they made the right

00:48:05.840 decision, of course, with the 2020 vision of hindsight, it was probably correct to have done

00:48:11.360 what Andy suggested and just end on the note of having torn a new one for Michael Cohen based on

00:48:18.080 his, his thefts and everything else. Yeah, that's, I honestly, it's like, so you're the biggest felon in

00:48:25.020 this courtroom, you who committed larceny, who stole $60,000 from the victim, Mr. Trump over there,

00:48:31.380 and you did it for self-help. No further questions. That's it. Goodbye. You're done.

00:48:37.080 Have a happy Memorial Day. It didn't end that way, but Cohen has been bloodied up and bruised

00:48:41.960 pretty badly in this case. And there's, that's the big question. Does the jury disregard all of that

00:48:47.300 and say, well, I believed him on the core things. And does the jury then say the core things have been

00:48:51.920 proven within the confines of the law I'm being given. Andy, thank you for being here. Phil sticks

00:48:57.800 around and we're going to take up the latest on Nathan and Fannie and Joy Reid. It's unbelievable.

00:49:07.280 We have got to talk about Nathan Wade, the Randy prosecutor down in Fulton County, Atlanta,

00:49:15.100 who decided to have an affair with his co-prosecutor on the case, Fannie Willis,

00:49:19.920 and his rehabilitation tour on the media. Only too happy to help MSNBC's Joy Reid just the other

00:49:28.700 night. Now to folks who have not been closely following this case, those poor folks would

00:49:34.260 have walked away very confused after this interview and maybe even feeling sorry for Nathan

00:49:41.560 Wade and for Fannie Willis, given how Joy Reid framed this scandal. I mean, story.

00:49:49.340 The reason there's no trial date in Georgia is because a lawyer for one of the defendants,

00:49:53.740 Mike Roman, who worked for the Trump campaign, found a novel way to stall it.

00:49:58.000 One that didn't involve the criminally accused Donald Trump, but did involve, actually devolved

00:50:03.620 into a salacious sideshow about a black woman's personal life. It was an attempt to have DA Fannie

00:50:09.540 Willis removed because of an alleged improper romantic relationship with a special prosecutor

00:50:15.100 she'd hired, Nathan Wade. And just like that, the focus shifted from Donald Trump trying to

00:50:20.340 overturn his loss to the judgment and character of Fannie Willis over a consensual workplace romance.

00:50:26.400 Okay. For those of you keeping track at home, it is not okay to talk about a black woman's personal

00:50:33.080 life, but it's fine to have testimony about whether a former president, white man, was wearing a condom

00:50:39.560 when he allegedly banged a porn star. Got it? Joy Reid's rules, we're just playing by them.

00:50:45.020 Not surprisingly, time and time again, Joy Reid failed to call out Nathan Wade when his narrative

00:50:51.200 did not add up. When you were brought into the case, you came in November 1st, and this was after,

00:50:57.460 you know, there was the investigation, there's a special grand jury that then gets impaneled in

00:51:03.560 May of 2022. At the time that you were brought on to the case, from then through the time of the

00:51:09.380 grand jury, before you were brought on, did you have a personal relationship with, or a personal

00:51:14.000 intimate relationship with DA Willis? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Our relationship was professional.

00:51:18.720 Um, our relationship, uh, grew organically over time. Um, it was something that was not deliberate

00:51:27.760 or intentional. Um, I made the statement earlier that, uh, workplace romances are, um, as American

00:51:37.020 as apple pie, right? Um, that was not to make light of the situation. Apple pie, just a red-blooded

00:51:45.680 American man who couldn't keep his hands off Fannie Willis. Absolutely no romantic relationship,

00:51:51.060 he says. Absolutely none. Prior to the grand jury being impaneled in May of 2022. That's what he just

00:51:57.420 said. That'll come as news to the old version of Nathan Wade, who testified under oath at the

00:52:03.460 hearing to have him and Fannie disqualified from the Trump prosecution in Atlanta when he said that

00:52:08.820 old Nathan Wade, that his affair started at least two months prior to May of 2022.

00:52:15.280 When did your romantic relationship with Ms. Willis begin?

00:52:19.160 2022.

00:52:20.380 When? In 2022.

00:52:22.520 Early 2022.

00:52:25.620 So you were appointed in November of 2021?

00:52:28.980 Yes, ma'am.

00:52:29.740 And your relationship started early? What's early? January? February?

00:52:32.640 Around March. Around March. Even his lover, D.A. Fannie Willis, put the date months earlier than

00:52:40.840 Nathan Wade is now telling Joy Reid. In November of 2021, I hired him. I do not consider our

00:52:49.300 relationship to have become romantic until early of 2022. Because I don't know what date and time.

00:52:55.240 I'm saying sometime between February and April of 2022. And very early April of 2022. Because I know

00:53:01.620 that trip that I discussed with you was like the first week of 2022, that the relationship had

00:53:06.500 become romantic.

00:53:08.740 Okay. The point is, he's still lying. They lie because they know they've done wrong. And he

00:53:14.360 continues to lie. And a decent, I mean, even a journalist at all, you don't even have to be

00:53:19.580 decent. Just do your basic job. Journalist would know to ask these questions and would have her facts

00:53:26.040 ready, madam. Of course, all of these dates are lies. They're obvious lies. Because we know from

00:53:33.800 their many texts and overnight visits, hello, long before he was hired in 2021, that these two were

00:53:41.600 having an affair while Nathan Wade was still married, well before she even hired him. They're just allowed

00:53:46.460 to spew their lies with impunity on MSNBC. There was little to no pushback when he skirted questions,

00:53:53.980 no pushback on well-documented lies in his divorce documents under oath. And adding insult to injury,

00:54:02.640 Joy Reid and Mr. Wade decided the judge's order, decrying, and I quote, the odor of mendacity that Wade

00:54:11.300 and Willis' testimony left in the court was really code because it was actually about race.

00:54:19.340 He didn't have to add. He could have simply said, I find for the district attorney, she can remain on the

00:54:24.700 case. But he added some additional comments about the odor of mendacity and other things. Do you think

00:54:29.280 that was unneeded?

00:54:30.560 I don't think that it was necessary. I think many legal analysts and experts have said that, you know, that

00:54:37.600 entire piece of his order was, I think, just to prove a point. Judges have a tough job. Sometimes personal

00:54:48.340 feelings come out. In odor of mendacity, in all fairness, could be, could come from a lack of

00:54:54.800 understanding. We could have cultural differences. I may not understand why a certain culture does a

00:55:02.320 certain thing. So it could be suspicious to me. Right. So we'll give him that benefit.

00:55:08.140 Cultural differences, lack of understanding. It was personal. That's why Judge Scott McAfee said the

00:55:19.200 stench of lying was in his court after they testified. Like he didn't understand, I guess, how black people

00:55:26.340 cheat on their wives and lie about it under oath. Is that his point? Is that a black thing, sir, that

00:55:31.440 this poor judge just didn't understand? What are you saying? He didn't get how black men go

00:55:37.680 and hang out at Porsche dealerships from midnight to 5 a.m. when they're closed and most definitely

00:55:43.060 are not at the home of their extramarital affair partner, who they then text as soon as they return

00:55:46.960 home. Was it poor Judge McAfee's personal feelings about you that made him assume those things?

00:55:54.120 Was it cultural differences that left Judge McAfee thinking maybe Nathan Wade and Fannie Willis

00:55:59.160 were the liars, those two, and not Robin Urte, who said they started their affair years before?

00:56:05.620 In 2019, she said it started years before they admitted on the stand and that she'd seen it with

00:56:11.020 her own eyes and been told about it personally by Fannie Willis, who was then her best friend.

00:56:14.960 Wait, she's black, too, by the way. Did Robin Urte not understand these cultural differences to which

00:56:21.420 you refer, Mr. Wade? How offensive. You lied, sir. You lied under oath. We all saw it.

00:56:28.020 You should have been disbarred. And there is nothing about our culture that makes a white

00:56:34.660 judge incapable of detecting the odor of mendacity when it's staring him in the face and nose in his

00:56:42.160 own courtroom. And you know it. That would have been a nice follow-up, Joey Reed, but you didn't

00:56:46.860 do it. But Nathan Wade is always the victim, folks. You see, he's always the victim, even as he was asked

00:56:51.920 about abandoning his spousal and child support obligations.

00:56:56.560 I'm keeping up with all my responsibilities, contrary to what people believe. I have not

00:57:02.480 shirked any responsibilities. I've paid spousal support. I don't have minor children,

00:57:07.980 so there's no reason to pay any child support. I am doing everything that I'm supposed to do

00:57:14.160 and still dealing with the threats that are coming daily.

00:57:18.400 Oh, the threats. Poor me. And yet legal filings in his divorce case say quite the opposite.

00:57:24.020 We actually reached out to Joycelyn Wade's legal team. Joy Reed, you should have done that

00:57:30.100 after this appearance. And let's just say they do not agree with Nathan Wade's version of the

00:57:34.880 events, telling us in part in an exclusive statement, quote, Mr. Wade continues his campaign

00:57:40.440 of deceit in the media. The evidence will show unequivocally that he is not meeting his court

00:57:45.200 ordered financial obligations to his wife. And Joycelyn is also adamant in speaking with us

00:57:50.460 that they did not have an agreement to divorce when their youngest graduated high school,

00:57:55.300 as Nathan Wade claimed to Joy Reed. In other words, he was cheating. He was cheating when he

00:58:01.220 bedded Fannie Willis, his work partner. Hello. Joycelyn's legal team telling us that's,

00:58:07.700 quote, yet another lie Nathan Wade persists in telling. Phil Holloway is back with me now.

00:58:13.900 Phil, do you believe the nerve of this guy? Well, you know, the odor of describing that testimony

00:58:19.980 as having the odor of mendacity was, I think, very generous on Judge McAfee's part. It's a lot

00:58:26.320 kinder than saying, you know, I think these people lied in my courtroom under oath. I think they

00:58:30.920 committed perjury. So I guess if you want to be really specific about it, I guess that's what

00:58:37.140 Mr. Wade wanted the judge to have said in lieu of the odor of mendacity. But Joy Reed, by the way,

00:58:43.520 you know, Joy Reed needs to be educated and made aware that when Ashley Merchant raised this issue,

00:58:50.560 she is doing what the law requires her to do, which is to be a zealous advocate for her client.

00:58:55.400 If she uncovers information that the prosecutor on the case has acted improperly and in a way that

00:59:01.580 could result in her disqualification, she has no choice ethically but to raise that issue.

00:59:08.180 Speaking of the divorce and all the pleadings there, I can't wait for the hearing that's coming

00:59:12.620 up, I think, maybe next month because, look, Judge Henry Thompson, who's handling that divorce case,

00:59:18.060 I've known him for 25 years, very laid back, very practical man. But he's, look, how many times can

00:59:25.720 you be asked and made aware, actually, if you're a judge that somebody is not following your orders

00:59:30.380 before you have to do something more drastic? And so it's apparent from the pleadings that

00:59:36.120 Mr. Wade is not taking care of his obligations, particularly with respect to health care costs

00:59:42.660 that are incurred by Joycelyn Wade. And she now alleges she-

00:59:46.800 Spent all the money going to see the world with Fannie Willis.

00:59:49.800 And she still says, she being Joycelyn Wade and her lawyer, she says the money's still coming in.

00:59:54.880 She alleges in a recent filing that he's not been truthful with the court in Cobb County,

01:00:00.140 with Judge Thompson, in the context of his legal pleading. So you talk about the odor of

01:00:05.420 bandacity, the odor is apparently drifting over the county lines because Joycelyn Wade says he's lying

01:00:11.320 once again in his pleadings up there.

01:00:14.420 Now, it's drifting all the way up here to Connecticut. It's beyond just counties.

01:00:18.980 Here's Joy Reid on really, because Fannie Willis was also there. She, of course,

01:00:23.340 went to MSNBC for her media rehab tour. And take a listen to Joy Reid's take on this. Watch,

01:00:28.740 South 12.

01:00:30.080 Team MAGA could not prove an actual conflict of interest since there was not.

01:00:34.160 But because America is always America, the victory for DA Fannie Willis also came with a scolding

01:00:39.760 for a professional black woman about her judgment. Judge McAfee called a speech she gave in January

01:00:46.320 at Bethel AME Church, accusing her critics of racism legally improper, adding that the effect was to

01:00:52.420 cast racial aspersions. Meanwhile, defendant Donald Trump has launched numerous openly racist attacks

01:00:58.540 on Fannie Willis without admonition. In fact, Judge McAfee actually suggested a possible gag order

01:01:04.660 against Fannie Willis, who, I will remind you, has faced a torrent of racist abuse and threats

01:01:10.420 for prosecuting Trump.

01:01:13.220 Wow. You see, because America is America, it came with a scolding. The black woman had to be

01:01:20.900 scolded by this judge who threatened to gag her, where it's really Donald Trump spewing all

01:01:27.700 of the racist threats. That's her take on the world.

01:01:32.180 Joy Reid needs to understand that it's about Fannie Willis and the choices and the decisions

01:01:36.940 that she's made. She's the one who decided to go into the well of that church to make racial

01:01:42.540 aspersions about the defendants in the case. You're not supposed, if you're a prosecutor,

01:01:46.980 you are not supposed to be making derogatory comments in the sphere of sort of the general public

01:01:53.680 or a court of public opinion, particularly when you're making those comments in the well

01:01:57.800 of a church that's right in the heart of where the jury will be taken from. This is Fulton County.

01:02:03.420 You're going to get the jurors. She's speaking to the potential jurors. That's why it's more

01:02:08.060 than just an actual or even a perceived conflict of interest. It's improper for the prosecutor

01:02:13.880 to make these extrajudicial statements that way and to refer to the defendant's counsel as lying

01:02:20.600 and being racist. It's absolutely 100% improper. The judge has given the Georgia Court of Appeals

01:02:26.820 everything that it needs in terms of the recipe to disqualify Fannie Willis. I am still scratching

01:02:32.940 my head. I don't understand why he did not at that point, but I'm convinced that the Court of Appeals

01:02:38.020 most likely will. That's my prediction. And Joy Reid needs to educate herself and understand that

01:02:44.160 prosecutors have a different obligation than a criminal defendant, certainly, and they have a

01:02:49.280 different obligation from other lawyers. They have a special obligation to do justice, whatever

01:02:54.960 that requires. And it doesn't necessarily, well, it never includes going into the well of a church

01:03:00.500 and telling the jury pool that someone that you're actively prosecuting is a racist and casting those

01:03:07.800 kind of aspersions. It's improper. It's against the rules of ethics. Fannie Willis knows it's against

01:03:12.580 the rules of ethics. I guess Joy Reid is the only one that doesn't.

01:03:15.760 Now we've seen Fannie Willis file an appeal on Judge McAfee's dismissal of the six counts against

01:03:21.700 Donald Trump. He dismissed them saying he didn't plead these counts against him for encouraging somebody

01:03:27.160 to violate their oath of office, particularly enough. He didn't really plead them with enough

01:03:31.660 specificity to give the defendants notice of what it is they're being charged with. She's really just

01:03:36.420 filing this because the Court of Appeals has already taken the appeal of McAfee's refusal to

01:03:41.180 disqualify her. So when do these appeals get heard, Phil? And what's the earliest we could find out

01:03:47.280 whether Fannie's remaining on this case once and for all?

01:03:50.580 Well, they're submitting briefs in the very near future. You've got a number of the defendants for

01:03:55.360 some reason that I can't understand. Not all the defendants joined in this motion. So the ones who did

01:04:00.380 join in this motion, they're going to be submitting their briefs in the coming weeks and then the

01:04:04.220 responsive pleadings, of course, by the prosecutor. I think it's going to probably be August, Megan,

01:04:08.880 when we're going to hear oral arguments. And then they've got actually a long period of time that

01:04:13.480 they can wait to issue a ruling. My prediction is that it's going to be sometime in the October-ish

01:04:18.840 timeframe that we may get a ruling on this. It takes two of the three judges on the panel of the

01:04:25.260 Court of Appeals to reverse Judge McAfee. But remember, whoever loses can then ask the Georgia

01:04:31.660 Supreme Court to take up the issue there. So we're not done with the appeal.

01:04:38.860 No matter how they rule this fall.

01:04:42.420 And is the case proceeding? You and I were not sure whether they would stop the trial against Trump

01:04:48.180 while she is still, Fannie, in jeopardy. Is it proceeding right now? Do we know?

01:04:54.340 As of right now, it's not. And of course, you have the election. Willis and, of course,

01:04:58.700 Judge McAfee both were involved in the election that just took place this week on the 21st.

01:05:05.180 McAfee won. Willis won her primary. McAfee's in for four more years of his own now at this point.

01:05:11.140 I think that he's not doing a whole lot. He's going to wait and see what the Court of Appeals

01:05:15.780 does. Because if he starts hearing pretrial motions and conducting other litigation related

01:05:21.420 to this case, and it turns out that Willis is not supposed to be the prosecutor on it,

01:05:26.160 then it will all have been for nothing and it will have been a big waste of time. I do think he's

01:05:30.380 going to issue some rulings based on hearings that he's already had. It's my understanding

01:05:35.840 there's a slew of them ready to be handed down. So we'll be looking for those things and to see

01:05:41.540 what they are. We don't know, but we'll see in the next days or even weeks how he's going to rule

01:05:46.700 and some of the other pretrial motions that he heard before the case was docketed at the Court

01:05:51.280 of Appeals.

01:05:51.780 One of the things Nathan Wade said the other night on MSNBC was that he does not think this case gets

01:05:57.680 tried before the election. And from what you just told me, it doesn't sound like they'll be able to

01:06:01.680 try it even before the next president is sworn in. So that's a big loss for her. He should have kept

01:06:08.620 it in his pants and she should have upheld her duty to be an ethical person. And when asked about it,

01:06:13.520 should have thought about that same thing. Phil, always a pleasure, my friend. Great to see you.

01:06:18.560 Happy to be here, Megan. Happy Memorial Day.

01:06:20.360 Thank you. You too. Phil Holloway, everybody. We love him. Up next, Jesse Kelly's here. And oh,

01:06:25.580 we have a lot to get through with Jesse. This is going to be a fun half an hour. Stay with me.

01:06:29.540 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest,

01:06:35.520 and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal,

01:06:39.380 and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel

01:06:44.600 featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love, great people like Dr. Laura,

01:06:50.360 Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream The Megan

01:06:56.700 Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love

01:07:03.640 the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast, and more.

01:07:10.720 Last night, former President Donald Trump held a rally in the Bronx, and to AOC's dismay,

01:07:38.000 it brought major turnout. That plus Pride Month starts next week. Oh, my God, it never ends.

01:07:44.360 What is Walmart doing? Not the right thing. Here to discuss it, Jesse Kelly, host of The Jesse Kelly

01:07:50.280 Show, and I'm Right on The First TV. Jesse, my friend, great to see you again.

01:07:56.380 Oh, it's always a pleasure, Megan. After all, it's Memorial Day weekend. Great weekend.

01:08:00.620 Yes. Thank you for your service on that front, my friend. There's a lot to get to. So Trump

01:08:06.280 goes to the Bronx. AOC is publicly rejoicing at the massive storm we got yesterday morning here in

01:08:14.160 the Northeast and in New York, where it was lightning and it was thunder and it was just a

01:08:18.260 complete downpour. And she was saying God is good on Twitter. And then, like a phoenix,

01:08:24.340 the sun rose from the ashes, the clouds parted, the rain stopped, and all the people crowded in

01:08:33.260 in the Bronx, New York to see Donald Trump. Then she had the nerve, AOC, to say, well,

01:08:41.600 I can't wait to hear from my fellow Bronxites about how they really feel about Donald Trump.

01:08:48.200 And here is some of that. Sot44. Did you ever expect Donald Trump to come to the South?

01:08:54.420 Not really. No, never. Nobody else, I think, had done this. I think it's a good thing.

01:08:59.460 I think I definitely am surprised. I never, I don't think I, I don't think I would have,

01:09:05.180 you know, expected him to come to the Bronx. So I didn't expect it, to be honest,

01:09:08.940 right here at Cortona Park in the South Bronx. But us people, we love Trump.

01:09:14.240 I don't know of any president that's ever come to the Bronx. Period.

01:09:18.020 Yeah, did you ever expect him to come here?

01:09:19.720 No, not at all. Not at all. And I'm so excited.

01:09:23.260 No, we never expected him to come here. But it's not like they say,

01:09:26.060 not everybody dislikes him. We love him here, and we're glad he showed up.

01:09:29.540 So it wasn't a good day for AOC. And then when asked about her in particular,

01:09:36.320 it went even more south. Sot45.

01:09:38.480 AOC says if you're not a Democrat, you don't belong here in the Bronx. What do you say?

01:09:42.320 I disagree with that. I don't think she should be here in the Bronx.

01:09:45.500 I actually don't know any Democrats living in the Bronx.

01:09:48.260 Look, AOC, look at the tremendous support from Mr. Donald J. Trump.

01:09:52.720 You need to tell her that she needs to stay out of the Bronx, because look at all the people around.

01:09:56.820 Everybody's here for Trump.

01:09:58.160 I am a Democrat, and I belong here.

01:10:02.020 And who are you voting for?

01:10:03.860 Donald J. Trump.

01:10:05.280 What has AOC done for the Bronx?

01:10:07.260 She's done nothing for the Bronx.

01:10:08.800 Nothing. Nothing's changed. Nothing's gotten any better.

01:10:11.140 Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

01:10:14.660 Let her come to the Bronx and let her come among us people that struggle.

01:10:18.200 She doesn't even know what struggle is.

01:10:21.060 Credit to Fox News for that second soundbite.

01:10:23.080 Sarah Hernandez with Turning Point Action for the first one.

01:10:25.240 Your thoughts, Jesse?

01:10:27.240 Well, I have a couple thoughts, Megan.

01:10:28.960 And one, I'm happy and everyone will probably enjoy it.

01:10:32.300 And the second thought is everyone will probably hate what I'm about to say.

01:10:35.200 So let's start with the good stuff.

01:10:36.800 So it's like normal.

01:10:39.180 Yeah, it's pretty much.

01:10:40.240 Pretty much.

01:10:41.260 Look, it's a good thing that Trump, because he's stuck in New York because of this ridiculous trial crap,

01:10:47.120 it's a good thing that he's making the most of it and getting people excited.

01:10:51.280 And these kind of things do get people excited and rallies and crowds and stuff like that.

01:10:55.580 That stuff, it is good.

01:10:56.940 It's wonderful.

01:10:57.600 And it's wonderful to see someone like that visit an area like the Bronx where most presidential candidates will never even go.

01:11:03.920 However, this stuff doesn't translate into power, Megan.

01:11:09.020 This is the problem I have with so much of the voting public right now.

01:11:13.040 There are rallies and there are chants and there's cheers and there's great video.

01:11:16.760 And I love Trump and whatnot.

01:11:18.400 But it does not translate into power.

01:11:20.220 And power is what actually matters.

01:11:21.720 We can interview a thousand people on the streets in the Bronx to talk about how much they love Trump and how much they hate AOC.

01:11:28.580 AOC sails to re-election every single time.

01:11:31.620 And Donald Trump will not win the Bronx in the upcoming presidential election.

01:11:35.200 He won't win New York either.

01:11:37.180 So I'm glad there's momentum and I'm glad it's exciting.

01:11:40.180 But these people, how do you vote?

01:11:42.240 Do you vote?

01:11:43.200 Do you go to the polls?

01:11:44.180 Do you work for campaigns at all?

01:11:46.080 Have you run for office, school board, local election?

01:11:48.620 Are you involved in any way?

01:11:50.760 Showing up to a Trump rally for 15 minutes, having a couple beers with a couple patriots and talking on the camera about how much you hate AOC does not save the country.

01:11:59.840 Looks great.

01:12:00.600 Sounds great.

01:12:01.340 Doesn't save the country.

01:12:02.400 It's not power.

01:12:04.160 It's not a bad point.

01:12:05.380 But, man, it is a buzzkill.

01:12:07.180 There's, of course, because it's Trump, a debate about what the crowd size was.

01:12:11.680 Somebody on the campaign said there were 25,000 people there today.

01:12:14.980 The NYPD is estimating it was between 8,000 and 10,000.

01:12:17.680 And that's either way a shit ton of people.

01:12:21.800 That's a lot of people for a Republican in the Bronx.

01:12:26.160 I mean, I do see it as a glimmer of hope, just that people's minds are changing.

01:12:30.100 And, you know, a lot, a lot of minorities showed up, black and brown faces.

01:12:34.260 It's just, I'm just going to say I haven't seen anything like this in New York.

01:12:37.480 This is the state I grew up in and spent 50 years of my life in.

01:12:40.180 I haven't seen anything like this.

01:12:42.020 I do think there's a, it's, it's a harbinger of something, Jesse.

01:12:45.480 I agree, Megan, that it is a harbinger of something.

01:12:49.720 And I, I've been, I've been really paying attention to this a lot recently about, about

01:12:54.300 what's happening.

01:12:55.040 What are we seeing with each party with beyond the presidential race?

01:12:58.320 Like, what's the 30,000 foot view thing?

01:13:00.540 And I think what's happening right now is we're having a big party realignment on both sides,

01:13:05.860 where the Democrats are figuring out who they are, who they want to be.

01:13:09.160 Republicans are figuring out who they are, who they want to be.

01:13:11.580 And more importantly, the voters are figuring out where they belong.

01:13:15.580 And some voters on each side are deciding they don't like traditionally where they've

01:13:20.840 been and considering a move, maybe not necessarily to the other party.

01:13:25.880 Every disenfranchised Democrat's not going to start registering GOP, but maybe they leave

01:13:30.560 the Democrat party.

01:13:31.420 We're seeing a big party realignment happening.

01:13:34.600 And this America first movement on the right is a good thing.

01:13:37.580 And we'll bring in new people, that's for sure.

01:13:41.180 But, you know, there is, if I, if I want to be King Sinek again, Megan, this is why the

01:13:45.840 border is open as well.

01:13:47.500 You see, you pointed out how many black and brown people were at this rally and you're

01:13:50.980 seeing a lot more of that.

01:13:52.300 Hey, we're mad about this.

01:13:53.360 We're mad about that.

01:13:54.320 But maybe, just maybe the Democrats, while they're figuring out who they want to be,

01:13:59.980 maybe they're figuring out that they don't have to pretend to give a crap about black

01:14:03.580 people anymore because they just imported about 10 to 12 million illegals who are going

01:14:08.000 to vote Democrat for the rest of their lives and then keep vote Democrat after they're

01:14:12.220 dead.

01:14:12.900 They're all going to be, that 10 million turns into 50 million.

01:14:15.600 They'll all be American citizens.

01:14:17.100 They'll all vote Democrat forever.

01:14:18.660 They keep stashing all these illegals in these black neighborhoods in the big cities because

01:14:23.080 those are the poor neighborhoods and you always stuff the illegals in the poor parts

01:14:26.440 of town.

01:14:27.240 The black people keep getting mad about it.

01:14:29.080 I don't know that the urban black voter has fully accepted and understood yet that they're

01:14:34.360 being replaced.

01:14:35.520 You can show up at these town halls and scream and yell and I'm mad at Eric Adams and Brandon

01:14:39.640 Johnson in Chicago sucks and I'm super mad about it.

01:14:42.780 Maybe they don't give a crap because maybe you just got replaced.

01:14:46.800 It's amazing that the numbers down at the border right now and Fox's Bill Malugian went down

01:14:51.620 there, did a report on how there wasn't a single one.

01:14:55.380 They were flooding across the border.

01:14:56.280 It wasn't a single one from Mexico.

01:14:58.660 It was guys from the Middle East, all of fighting age.

01:15:02.820 I know people think this is a conspiracy theory.

01:15:05.020 Bill Malugian is a straight news reporter who is actually documenting this and actually

01:15:08.620 picked up the passports of these guys as they had crossed.

01:15:12.760 In fact, we've got, we've got some of that and saw it.

01:15:14.980 I think it's 51.

01:15:15.800 Watch.

01:15:16.060 India.

01:15:17.060 India.

01:15:18.060 India.

01:15:19.060 India.

01:15:20.060 India.

01:15:21.060 India.

01:15:22.600 Turkey.

01:15:23.060 Yeah.

01:15:24.060 Turkey.

01:15:25.060 Okay.

01:15:26.060 India.

01:15:27.060 India.

01:15:28.060 Where are you guys from?

01:15:29.060 Turkey.

01:15:30.060 Turkey.

01:15:31.060 Turkey.

01:15:32.060 Turkey.

01:15:33.060 Where are you guys from?

01:15:34.060 China.

01:15:35.060 China.

01:15:36.060 Ecuador.

01:15:37.060 India.

01:15:38.060 India.

01:15:39.060 India.

01:15:40.060 India.

01:15:41.060 India.

01:15:42.060 India.

01:15:43.060 India.

01:15:44.060 India.

01:15:45.060 India.

01:15:46.060 India.

01:15:47.060 India.

01:15:48.060 India.

01:15:49.060 Iran. Why'd you come? No freedom. No, no freedom. Yes. And here's a follow up for you, Jesse. He

01:15:57.020 asked them, how easy was it for you to get in? Look at this. Stop 52. Did you have to pay a

01:16:03.480 cartel? Yes. How much? Around 10,000. 10,000? Yes. In fact, the American people is right,

01:16:10.300 completely true. Who come into this country? They don't know. Okay, I'm good. But how if they're

01:16:15.360 not good, how they have killers, psychopaths, no guarantee of that. Why? Like, no, no security

01:16:21.280 check. No background check. No security. No security check. No background check. You're

01:16:26.140 worrying about who's crossing the border? Yes, yes. Of course, maybe it helps. I'm like,

01:16:30.600 people are not looking normal. My God, Jesse. Megan, honestly, it's the story on the planet,

01:16:39.820 and it's been the story on the planet for 20, 30 years, probably the last half century. Leaders

01:16:44.920 of Western civilizations, it's not just America, but Western civilizations replacing their own

01:16:51.000 citizens. And people watching this, listening to the great Megan Kelly show, need to understand

01:16:55.380 why you're being replaced. It's not just the boats. It's not that they want someone picking

01:17:00.420 the fields of the strawberries and things like that. The people who lead Western civilization

01:17:05.480 now, these evil leaders we have, not just Joe Biden, the Mitch McConnells of the world,

01:17:10.000 the elites on both sides. They are so unbelievably aggravated with the citizens, the actual citizens

01:17:17.240 of the country. Why? Because the citizens love their country. I love America. You love America,

01:17:22.340 Megan. I want America taken care of. I want America prosperous. I want the American people

01:17:26.400 to do well. I want what's best for America because I want what's best for America. When politicians

01:17:31.880 screw up America, I get angry about it. Well, politicians don't want to have to deal with somebody

01:17:37.000 like me. They don't want to have to deal with somebody who's going to hold them accountable

01:17:41.340 for actually doing something. So what are they going to do? Well, it's a pretty easy thing

01:17:46.400 to do. If you're mad about me and me loving my freedoms, I want to be able to say what I

01:17:51.660 want. I want to be able to own guns and eat a double cheeseburger at my leisure. Well, you

01:17:56.000 just replace me. If they'll open the borders, you tell the entire planet that the borders

01:18:00.160 are open and you flood the country with a bunch of dirt balls. And sure, they're going

01:18:03.760 to murder and rape a bunch of people and they have, and they will continue to do so,

01:18:07.200 but they will vote Democrat until they die. And all their children remember will be American

01:18:13.240 citizens. This is not an accident. I cannot stress this point enough to people. You see

01:18:18.200 this from so many normal people and I understand what they go through. You know, they have good

01:18:21.780 hearts. They couldn't fathom being that evil. So you'll see, you'll hear things like, wow,

01:18:26.240 Joe Biden really screwed up on the border. Well, they really stumbled on the border. I can't

01:18:31.060 believe how bad they've messed up on the border. Messed up? What? Joe Biden's been insanely

01:18:36.480 successful with his border plan. He has done his border plan. Ooh, the letter. They threw

01:18:42.940 open the border so much that we're actually emptying Venezuelan prisons and flying people

01:18:48.880 directly from Venezuela into the United States of America without even having to troop them through

01:18:54.580 Mexico. The taxpayer is paying for Venezuelan illegals to fly into the country and reside

01:19:01.260 near you and I. It's not an accident. It's not a stumble or a bumble. They didn't trip and stub

01:19:06.440 their toe and open up the border. They opened it up on purpose because they're trying to replace the

01:19:12.340 American citizen who's angry about what they're doing. And they've been very successful.

01:19:16.240 One of the things that helps your argument is that he could, he could change border policy like that.

01:19:23.560 He could, he could issue the same executive orders that Donald Trump had in place today. And he knows

01:19:29.200 that this issue has become huge, even for Democrats. And we're just what, five, six months out from an

01:19:34.520 election. So why wouldn't he do that right now? Why wouldn't he up against these massive poll deficits,

01:19:41.720 at least in the swing states? It's, it's relatively massive. Nevada, he's backed by 10 and Trump's

01:19:46.960 over him by 10 and the state that's gone blue and blue over and over anyway. Why wouldn't he do it

01:19:51.540 now? He's got to have an ideological reason for not doing it. Well, again, we're more talking about

01:19:57.380 the dirty communists surrounding that old cadaver. Joe Biden isn't actually doing this, but look,

01:20:02.520 this is something you've talked about before, Megan. I mean, gosh, you know, all this stuff,

01:20:06.040 the Cloward Piven strategy is from what the sixties, maybe the seventies, the Cloward Piven

01:20:10.500 strategy has always understood. This is for those who don't know an idea come that the communist

01:20:16.340 professors came up with the Cloward Piven strategy. How do we destroy America? They wanted to burn it

01:20:21.440 down so they could rebuild it into some communist hellhole like communists always do. And mass

01:20:26.520 unchecked immigration was always a central part of that because it doesn't matter how big and powerful

01:20:33.320 a country is. You fill it up with millions of people with no loyalty to it. They bloodsuck the

01:20:38.700 system drive, healthcare money, school money, just everything. Housing market, it's wrecking the

01:20:43.140 housing market. You can collapse a nation of any size or strength. Joe Biden, the reason he won't back

01:20:48.780 off of this, and this is like you pointed out, this might be the issue that loses in the election.

01:20:52.840 Even if Joe Biden loses the election, okay, so after four years, he embarrassed himself a thousand

01:20:58.220 times. He can't talk, screwed everything up. Inflation's bad. The normal American would look and say,

01:21:03.120 Joe Biden was a failed president. But if Joe Biden successfully imports 15 million illegals,

01:21:08.780 who will then turn into, like I said, 50, 60 million votes for eternity for Democrats,

01:21:13.940 Joe Biden at the end of his four year term will be the most successful Democrat president in the

01:21:18.680 history of the United States of America, because he will have ensured a permanent Democrat majority.

01:21:24.240 And that's if some mass deportation doesn't happen. Now, picking up on your cadaver remark,

01:21:30.000 there was a soundbite yesterday, I have to say, like, I don't, you know, it's like kind of easy

01:21:35.940 to startle the elderly. You shouldn't do it. You shouldn't. It's not nice, but it's kind of too

01:21:42.480 easy. And including in the case of our president, here he is, as the press is shouting questions at

01:21:47.880 him, a joint press conference with the president of Kenya. Watch this. Oh,

01:21:53.540 if you're listening, I beg you to go to YouTube and watch this part of the show.

01:22:04.280 You know, we talk about a lot of things, Megan, but isn't it, isn't it just kind of,

01:22:13.200 it's not that I like Joe Biden, but isn't it kind of mean what the people around him allow? I mean,

01:22:19.820 honestly, everyone has known somebody with, let's just call it dementia. That's what we all assume

01:22:24.480 he has. And it's an awful thing. It's an awful thing. Anyone who's experienced it, it's an awful

01:22:29.360 thing. And you need rest. You know, you really need rest. You need a calm environment. You need,

01:22:33.860 they focus on the paint job for people who have dementia. You need calm music. You need rest. You

01:22:39.320 need a care environment. Instead, he's in the most high stress environment humanly possible where

01:22:44.600 people are shouting at him at all times. And so he just, he always has this look on his face,

01:22:50.120 just like that, Megan, where we just, where a cat just jumped on his back or something.

01:22:54.460 And I set aside my dislike for the man. And I just marvel that his wife won't step in and stop all

01:23:01.920 this. It must be good being first lady. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Standby. Let's watch it once

01:23:07.280 more. It's not good. It's bad. It's bad. All right. Wait, just because we're having a laugh,

01:23:19.660 I'm going to take a left field turn here and say, have you seen the wheel of fortune clip

01:23:24.580 that's making the rounds? No. Oh, I've got a gift for you, my friend. This, I woke up to this on my

01:23:31.140 phone. I played it for Doug and the two of us, we got to laughing. You know how like something's

01:23:35.480 get funnier, the more you think about them and the more you watch them. This was one of those. It's

01:23:39.500 funny the first time too, though, here, this just happened on wheel of fortune. Um, let's play it.

01:23:44.260 tomorrow's right in the butt. No, no, this is the best. Yeah. That's right in the butt.

01:24:08.160 No, you know, I sympathize a little bit, Megan, because I can't do like people's minds work

01:24:22.140 differently. And mine's very slow. Anyway, as everyone can tell, mine just doesn't work that

01:24:26.080 well. And I can't do, I've never been able to do wheel of fortune. And my wife's amazing at it.

01:24:30.820 She'll look at something like that and she'll just be able to, she'll just do it. And you could have

01:24:34.900 that whole thing done, but one letter and I wouldn't be able to get it. So I sympathize

01:24:38.480 because that's totally something that would come out of my mouth on national television

01:24:41.880 and band. You know, cause wheel of fortune is famous for its, for its anal sex references.

01:24:47.760 That's, that's a thing.

01:24:52.080 Oh gosh. I love the woman next to him. What?

01:25:00.540 Oh my God. I'm dying. Yeah. I knew, you know, I'm really secretly a 12 year old boy at heart. So

01:25:04.760 I live for that crap. Um, okay, wait, I've got to get to so many things. Let's talk about Walmart.

01:25:10.200 It's doubling down. Target has decided to go full LGBTQ, all the letters. I'd only half of its

01:25:17.980 stores this year in pride month because it got such pushback, but you're still going to be seeing the

01:25:22.560 tuck at bathing suit and half of the targets of America. It's baloney. So what does Walmart do with

01:25:28.560 this huge opportunity to say, we're not going to do that. You know, we support our gay customers,

01:25:32.860 but they don't have to come to Walmart for this stuff. Um, no, they're going a different way.

01:25:37.300 Here's their, uh, announcement via Instagram of their pride. Always collection 54.

01:25:44.860 We're people have magic that we can share. We're lucky enough to be in the Walmart pride collection

01:25:51.480 this year. Total dream come true. It's not every day that I see my products in a Walmart.

01:25:56.220 It's important to me to share my art. No one can make the art that you make. No one can say the

01:26:02.380 things the way you say them. There's a lot of opportunity to uplift with a bit of playfulness

01:26:07.620 and imperfection. The world needs to hear what you have to say and your story.

01:26:14.000 Do we, do we have to hear it at Walmart? Queer people have magic, Jesse. They're going to include a,

01:26:19.200 like a day planner that has beyond gender and queer magic printed all over it. So you can look

01:26:26.340 forward to discussing that with your children while you're just trying to pick up some summer

01:26:29.840 shorts. Yeah. Look, this, this infection in the corporate world of all this cultural Marxist

01:26:36.840 filth, Megan is it's the second most damaging thing they ever took over after the education system. Of

01:26:42.380 course, it was the education system that led them to taking over the corporate world.

01:26:45.900 And what's terrible about it is now we have, we, we exist in this system where

01:26:50.520 all the elites, I'm talking about, you know, fortune 500 companies in the government,

01:26:54.640 they've all partnered with each other against the consumer. They've all decided that they're,

01:26:59.840 if they just support each other, you know, they always have to be there for each other

01:27:02.880 because these stupid consumers and their values, they're going to get angry at them from time to

01:27:07.380 time. And so what happens is this creates confusion in people where someone like Walmart or do

01:27:12.660 something stupid like this? Cause Walmart's a family place. I mean, my goodness, Megan, I'm,

01:27:17.280 I'm, I invented white trash, right? I grew up in Walmart. I still go to Walmart all the time. I

01:27:21.400 mean, I won't be now, but look, I am who I am. I can't help it. And, and it's a family place. So

01:27:27.180 people look at something like that and they say, why would Walmart do this? They're going to get

01:27:30.500 boycotted. Don't they know people will be angry. They're not worried about people being angry.

01:27:36.020 They understand they have to check several boxes to stay in the club. And now if you want to stay

01:27:42.200 in the club, you have to talk about how man-made climate change is destroying everything. White

01:27:46.960 people are evil and everything has to be gay. And as long as you check all those boxes, then even if

01:27:52.400 the consumer, that pesky consumer gets mad about your tucking shorts or chest binders, sick freak

01:27:58.640 stuff you put out there in the show or in the store, you don't have to stress that because you will

01:28:03.740 always have access to capital because you're part of the club. Government will be there.

01:28:08.320 These major financial institutions will be there to bail you out. So they don't have to worry about

01:28:12.140 Megan Kelly. They don't have to worry about Jesse Kelly. Although they'll scoff at us because why

01:28:16.960 Merrill Lynch will be there to bail you out if you need them. Yeah. Meanwhile, you're right. Like

01:28:21.020 the middle-class families, working-class families are using Walmart, a lot of them as their main grocery

01:28:25.940 store. They're just trying to pick up dinner for the night. They got to walk by queer magic and

01:28:30.380 beyond gender merch and have to explain that to their three-year-old in the front of the cart.

01:28:35.140 It's ridiculous. It's not just Walmart. NBC, my old hot, has just put out a documentary wanting,

01:28:42.100 I guess, to support Pride Month by showing us how gay all the animals are. The animals are gay

01:28:49.260 and transgender and queer. This is just for you. It was posted by NWokeness on X. Watch.

01:29:00.060 Is there for their trailer?

01:29:01.780 The paparazzi really are everywhere.

01:29:03.820 Everything you were taught as a kid is wrong.

01:29:05.760 You make me want to dance.

01:29:07.280 Gay penguins. Bisexual lions.

01:29:10.000 Sex-changing clownfish.

01:29:11.860 This is a queer planet.

01:29:14.280 Queerness has always existed. It's only in humans that we have such a stigma about it.

01:29:18.380 The idea of just having two fixed sexes is clearly out of style.

01:29:24.360 Mother nature is pretty open-minded.

01:29:28.640 Sex is not just her reproduction.

01:29:31.620 It's clear that no matter where you look on our planet, nature is full of queer surprises.

01:29:38.320 To be honest, we should all probably get laid a little more than we do.

01:29:41.520 It's got animal porn.

01:29:47.240 It's showing animals that clearly, like, have just gotten off with the euphoric look on their faces.

01:29:52.180 It's showing, I guess, purported male lions doing it to other male lions or trying to.

01:29:56.800 It's called Queer Planet.

01:29:59.140 And you heard it.

01:29:59.920 They're positing that just two sexes is clearly out of style, Jesse.

01:30:05.120 It's so gross.

01:30:07.520 And isn't it weird?

01:30:08.720 Doesn't it make you feel old, Megan?

01:30:10.380 Not that I would ever, of course, call you old.

01:30:12.260 But I'm 42.

01:30:13.900 And it makes me feel like I'm 92.

01:30:16.680 And that when I was a kid, I'm not ancient, right?

01:30:18.980 When I was a kid, my folks could, and they did if it was a Friday night and they had people over.

01:30:23.840 They'll kick me and my cousins if we weren't allowed outside anymore downstairs.

01:30:27.220 And you would just turn on ABC, NBC on Friday night, and you'd watch Family Matters or Her Full House or something like that.

01:30:34.240 And it would be some sitcom with a family there teaching values and right and wrong.

01:30:39.160 Megan, we don't have cable in my house anymore.

01:30:41.480 You can't let your kids watch freaking commercials now, let alone the actual shows.

01:30:46.740 It's like it happened in five minutes on us.

01:30:49.940 Overnight, everything just turned to crap.

01:30:53.140 It makes me feel ancient.

01:30:55.700 Does it make you feel old?

01:30:57.620 Yeah, and it makes me feel disgusted.

01:30:59.780 First of all, I feel like the lions have been wrongfully impugned in this documentary.

01:31:03.580 How do we know the male lion is gay?

01:31:05.200 Maybe he just mistook the other male lion for a female.

01:31:08.200 I mean, my strutwick would hump just about anything.

01:31:10.520 And everyone's spayed and neutered in my animal planet, in my house.

01:31:14.040 He doesn't know what he's doing.

01:31:15.260 I think he's been wrongfully accused.

01:31:17.360 I want confirmation.

01:31:18.460 As soon as he can dance well, we'll know.

01:31:21.000 But until then, the jury's still out.

01:31:23.160 I don't want to see this crap all over my stores and my television and everywhere I go for the next month.

01:31:32.200 But it's about to unfold, as you know, in earnest.

01:31:34.880 Well, let's be honest, Megan, as we go into Pride Month, everyone needs to understand what's actually happening here.

01:31:41.640 Propaganda works.

01:31:42.760 There's been a million polls that have been put out on this of the number of people identifying as LGBTQ.

01:31:48.440 I don't even know how many stupid friggin' letters they've added to this thing by now.

01:31:52.380 But if you go by generation, the younger you get, the numbers are eye-popping.

01:31:57.080 You know, the older generation, it's something like 1%, 2%.

01:31:59.480 You get down to the younger generation today, it's 20%, 25%.

01:32:03.500 Why?

01:32:04.060 Are 20%, 25% of people all of a sudden somewhere on the rainbow spectrum?

01:32:07.940 Of course they're not.

01:32:09.020 Propaganda works.

01:32:10.400 Propaganda's very effective.

01:32:11.420 And the purpose behind the propaganda, especially the LGBTQ stuff and the feminist stuff, is to destroy the actual foundation of Western society, and that's the nuclear family.

01:32:21.620 It's not Western society.

01:32:22.760 I shouldn't have said that.

01:32:23.740 It's every society in history.

01:32:25.480 The Romans talked about this.

01:32:26.920 The Greeks.

01:32:27.540 I mean, you name it.

01:32:28.520 A man marrying a woman, making a bunch of babies, and raising them is really the foundation of every single society.

01:32:36.460 You have guys like Caesar Augustus, not exactly some born-again Christian, lamenting the immorality of Rome.

01:32:42.540 Why?

01:32:43.220 He understood he needed families, strong families to build a strong Rome.

01:32:48.720 This is an attack on the family.

01:32:50.160 You turn a woman into a feminist, no man wants to date her.

01:32:53.340 She'll be alone forever.

01:32:54.480 He'll hate women.

01:32:55.300 She'll hate men.

01:32:56.080 They don't get married.

01:32:56.780 They don't make babies.

01:32:57.940 You tell some 18-year-old he's trans, he cuts his penis off.

01:33:01.400 Two years later, he regrets it, but now he's stuck like that for life, and he's never going to be a dad or a husband.

01:33:07.160 It's incredibly sad what we're doing to young people, especially with how many are coming out now, Megan, having gone through all these things and regret it.

01:33:17.100 You and I have talked about this before, but these young girls, Chloe Cole and others, I mean, I saw a speech Chloe Cole gave.

01:33:23.780 I'm as cold-hearted as it comes.

01:33:25.540 I dang near got choked up, Megan.

01:33:27.060 She had had her breasts removed and had gone through all these things, and she was talking about how what she went through at, yeah, 15 years old, and now she'll never breastfeed.

01:33:36.900 And you could just tell, like, it ached at her, and my heart broke for her.

01:33:40.980 I mean, I did so many stupid things at 15.

01:33:44.020 What if you've done something permanent like that that would affect the rest of your life?

01:33:48.140 It's awful.

01:33:49.000 It's abuse.

01:33:49.620 It's really, really wrong.

01:33:50.520 So on the trans front, there was big news from the Senate Judiciary Committee this week, where Joe Biden has now managed to confirm some 200 federal judges.

01:34:02.500 And Ted Cruz got up in the grill of this one magistrate judge, that's sort of a lower-level federal judge, who was up for the full district judge.

01:34:11.000 Her name is Sarah Netburn, Southern District of New York, very prestigious jurisdiction.

01:34:15.840 She's going to get confirmed because the Dems control the Senate.

01:34:18.040 And this woman had ordered a male posing as a female to leave the male prison and move to the female prison.

01:34:27.900 By the way, just FYI, thanks to Biden's DOJ, misgendering is expressly forbidden with these prisoners.

01:34:34.040 Taxpayers have to subsidize cosmetic surgeries, hormones, and even bras for men.

01:34:38.860 And there are approximately 1,980 transgender offenders in federal prison, half of whom are in for sex offenders, including this guy who raped a little boy, a 9-year-old boy and a 17-year-old girl.

01:34:53.800 And her justification was, well, there's no history of sexual assault while he was in the male's prison.

01:34:59.600 Because his target victims weren't in there.

01:35:03.500 You just moved him to the female prison.

01:35:05.400 I've got to play Ted Cruz.

01:35:06.660 Watch this.

01:35:07.120 A minute ago, you said that when this man decided that he was a she, you said this individual was, quote, I wrote it down, sober and entirely a female.

01:35:21.740 That phrase struck me as remarkable.

01:35:24.160 Did this individual have male genitalia?

01:35:25.800 Sorry, what I meant to say was hormonally a female.

01:35:28.720 Okay, but that's not entirely.

01:35:30.600 Did this individual have male genitalia?

01:35:33.400 Yes.

01:35:33.860 So you took a 6'2 serial rapist, serial child rapist with male genitalia, and he said, you know, I'd like to be in a women's prison.

01:35:49.420 And your answer was, that sounds great to me.

01:35:52.320 Do they have a right not to have a 6'2 man who is a serial rapist put in as their cellmate?

01:35:59.720 Do those women have a right to that?

01:36:01.280 Every person who's incarcerated has the right to be safe in their space.

01:36:05.620 But now the women are not safe because because of her, this guy's been moved into the female prisons.

01:36:12.300 They are not safe in what we've done to women and children in the society breaks my heart, Megan.

01:36:18.940 I probably shouldn't wrap it up like this, but I should know, I should let you know that last night, actually, on my radio show, I was talking about you specifically and Ted Cruz.

01:36:28.200 I lumped you both together.

01:36:29.680 And I told everyone, because we were playing some of your Bill Maher thing, and I told everyone, I said, look, you can love or hate Megan Kelly, Ted Cruz.

01:36:36.200 I'm friends with both of them.

01:36:37.140 I love them both.

01:36:37.800 But you don't ever think that you're more prepared than they are because they're going to make you look really, really, really stupid if you do.

01:36:44.100 And for some reason, people continue to make this mistake with you, and they make this mistake with Ted Cruz.

01:36:48.720 You're not going to be more prepared than Ted Cruz is when you walk into something.

01:36:52.840 And if you act like you are, he's going to make you look really, really, really bad.

01:36:56.180 I've seen him do it so many times.

01:36:57.620 And you, actually.

01:36:59.060 It's amazing.

01:36:59.740 Now this same man posing as a woman says he now lives in fear of being attacked by the women.

01:37:06.200 He's upset he's being housed with the worst of the worst female offenders.

01:37:10.820 And that women have, quote, made it clear he's not welcome.

01:37:15.660 Oh, my God.

01:37:17.020 We've lost our ever-loving minds.

01:37:18.920 Thank God for people like Jesse Kelly who still know the truth and speak it.

01:37:22.720 Good to see you, my friend.

01:37:24.420 You too, Megan.

01:37:25.040 You're the best.

01:37:26.240 And thanks to all of you for joining me today and all week.

01:37:28.680 Don't forget, Sean Ryan on Monday.

01:37:30.520 God bless our soldiers, especially those who have fallen and the families who have made the ultimate sacrifice.

01:37:35.120 Please keep them in mind this Memorial Day weekend.

01:37:40.880 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:37:43.160 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 24, 2024

Trump's Massive Bronx Rally, and Nathan Wade's New Lies, with Jesse Kelly, Andy McCarthy, and Phil Holloway ｜ Ep. 801

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