The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump vs. Judges, Clooney vs. MSNBC, and Legacy Media Failing in New Media, with Mike Solana, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis

00:00:00.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.300 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday. Yay, we made it.

00:00:18.480 Later today, Mike Solana is back with me in studio. I'm really looking forward to that. I really liked him the last time.

00:00:23.960 But we begin today with our legal eagles, our top legal team on Lawfare 2.0.

00:00:31.080 The biggest obstacles to Trump's second term agenda have not come from Congress or the media.

00:00:37.920 They have come from the courts. Judges slapping down injunction after injunction after injunction.

00:00:44.780 These are nationwide injunctions that stop the Trump agenda in its tracks.

00:00:49.400 Yes, they have blocked Trump's executive order ending birthright citizenship.

00:00:54.260 That one, that can be forgiven. That's a big one, okay?

00:00:57.700 But they have been out of control on virtually every one of his executive orders.

00:01:02.620 They've paused the ban on trans individuals in the military, saying, I guess they're the commander-in-chief now. 0.99

00:01:09.120 Trump's not.

00:01:09.780 They have halted his deportations of Venezuelan gang members under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:01:16.300 Those cases have raised fascinating legal and political questions.

00:01:20.400 And there are so many others that they have tried to stop him on his DEI agenda, on his gender agenda, on cleaning up our federal employee ranks and firing dead weight.

00:01:33.860 I mean, you name it, they've stopped it.

00:01:36.020 And this appears to be how we're going to be living for the next four years.

00:01:39.440 The only question is whether the Supreme Court's going to start doing its job and sending a message to the lower courts that no one elected them to do anything.

00:01:46.840 Literally nobody elected federal district court judges.

00:01:49.940 And they're not the president.

00:01:51.720 And they have a role, absolutely, they have a role in when there's overreach.

00:01:57.080 But in certain lanes, they actually don't.

00:01:59.440 Courts are not allowed to decide, quote, political questions.

00:02:05.140 Political questions from the dawn of time have been left to the other branches because those political branches are directly answerable to us. 0.99

00:02:15.240 So if they screw up a political question, we will fire their asses. 0.99

00:02:19.740 But we cannot fire federal district court judges. 0.99

00:02:22.200 They have lifetime tenure.

00:02:24.120 And so that's just part of why it's been so controversial what they've been doing to stop Trump.

00:02:30.900 I mean, the whole Trump second presidency in its crib.

00:02:34.220 Joining me now to debate, Dave Ehrenberg, former state attorney general, state attorney, I should say, for Palm Beach County, Florida, and now managing partner of Dave Ehrenberg Law, as well as a frequent contributor to the Legal AF YouTube channel.

00:02:47.940 And Mike Davis, founder and president of the Article 3 project, he lives his life saying Legal AF.

00:02:54.920 That's just, that's his, like, core motto.

00:02:57.140 You can see, you can see Dave on MSNBC, you can see Mike on Fox, but this is the only place you will see them together.

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00:04:08.980 Angel.com slash Megan.

00:04:12.040 Guys, welcome back.

00:04:14.180 Thank you.

00:04:14.580 Great to be back.

00:04:15.960 Okay.

00:04:17.640 I'm so happy to see you.

00:04:19.240 So we've got to kick it off with the trend to Aragua deportations.

00:04:23.860 And yesterday there was this hearing on in the court of Judge Boasberg, which is in the D.C. federal district court.

00:04:33.520 And he's trying to decide whether the Trump administration committed contempt of court because a month ago, after Trump put three plane loads of suspected Venezuelan gang members on planes, at least one plane of which had already been ordered to be removed by a federal district judge and said,

00:04:53.220 get out of here, you're going to El Salvador, the ACLU ran into court, said, Judge Boasberg, Judge Boasberg, please stop it.

00:05:00.700 It's unconstitutional.

00:05:01.880 And he said, you know what?

00:05:04.360 It might be.

00:05:05.560 Stop those planes and said to the Trump administration, if those planes are in the air, you turn them around right now.

00:05:11.980 I don't care if they've left U.S. airspace. 0.99

00:05:14.000 Tell them to turn their asses around, get those illegals back to America. 1.00

00:05:17.100 And with respect to two of those planes, they'd already left and they did not comply with an order to turn the flights around. 0.97

00:05:26.620 And with respect to the third plane, it had not yet left, but it did not have any illegals on it who were being deported under the controversial law that was in front of Judge Boasberg, which is the Alien Enemies Act.

00:05:40.080 So the Trump administration didn't feel like they had to do anything on that plane because they were like, these people have been ordered removed.

00:05:45.200 We're not using the Alien Enemies Act.

00:05:46.960 You really have no jurisdiction to say anything about those illegals, Judge.

00:05:50.580 So this judge is pissed off about the fact that we didn't turn those planes around and bring them back.

00:05:55.880 And he might hold the Trump administration in contempt.

00:05:58.440 But before we even get to that, Mike Davis, this judge did issue an injunction a month ago saying, and no more deportations under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:06:10.080 You turn those planes around and no more using the Alien Enemies Act to deport Venezuelan gang members, period, until I've decided whether there's really an invasion or a predatory incursion, which is what's required under the Alien Enemies Act for the president to be able to deport them in the way he has.

00:06:29.840 I will decide. And the Trump administration said, no, you won't.

00:06:34.880 You will not, because the jurisprudence interpreting this act has said there is no judicial review of that call.

00:06:41.960 And things didn't change in the past 250 years.

00:06:45.320 You didn't find new executive authorities as a district court judge.

00:06:49.360 You will not determine whether there's been a predatory incursion.

00:06:51.620 That's Trump's call, period.

00:06:52.780 And there's been legal precedent to that effect.

00:06:55.880 And Judge Boesberg said, oh, I will decide. 0.98

00:06:59.100 Screw you. 0.93

00:06:59.880 I don't accept this. 1.00

00:07:01.040 It went up to this D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals.

00:07:03.780 They ruled two to one for now to support Judge Boesberg and his restraining order against the Trump deportations.

00:07:11.200 And Trump went to the Supreme Court to say, reverse that restraining order.

00:07:16.560 This is an outrage.

00:07:17.820 These courts don't have review over me, not on this.

00:07:21.400 The high court hasn't issued any ruling.

00:07:23.540 They have asked for briefing on the case and briefing has come in.

00:07:26.520 The Trump administration appealed.

00:07:28.260 The ACLU filed its responsive appellate brief.

00:07:30.600 And now the Trump administration just filed its reply.

00:07:33.100 So it's fully briefed.

00:07:34.220 And we're awaiting a call by the Supreme Court on the underlying substantive case.

00:07:38.240 And then there's the second matter of whether they should be held in contempt.

00:07:41.500 That was a five minute recitation of a very complex legal case.

00:07:45.880 I hope I got it right.

00:07:47.520 Mike Davis, why do you say the Trump administration is right?

00:07:52.260 President Trump campaigned on the fact that he's going to cut waste, fraud and abuse.

00:07:56.840 He's going to secure our border and he's going to get these illegal immigrants, 1.00

00:08:01.380 particularly this vicious terrorist gang, Trendy Aragua, along with MS-13, the hell out of our country.

00:08:08.240 And President Trump is doing the unthinkable.

00:08:11.440 He's actually doing what he promised American voters he would do.

00:08:15.500 And he's doing it fast, right?

00:08:17.800 And President Trump won a broad electoral mandate.

00:08:21.380 He won 312 electoral votes, all seven swing states.

00:08:25.080 He won the popular vote.

00:08:26.780 He kept the House.

00:08:28.380 He won a comfortable majority in the Senate.

00:08:31.280 And he's exercising core article to power under our Constitution.

00:08:36.660 He's not stealing Congress's legislative power under Article I.

00:08:41.640 He's not stealing the Supreme Court's judicial power under Article III.

00:08:45.780 He is enforcing our laws.

00:08:48.980 He's repelling an invasion of our country, which he has the absolute constitutional right,

00:08:54.740 constitutional duty to do under Article II of our Constitution,

00:08:59.300 separate from any statute, separate from any case law, separate from any regulation.

00:09:05.360 He's doing what the Constitution requires.

00:09:08.100 And these judges are exercising jurisdiction.

00:09:12.340 They do not have this.

00:09:13.400 Judge Boasberg, I think it was four Saturdays ago, when he was not even the emergency docket judge,

00:09:19.560 opened up his courtroom.

00:09:20.880 He exposed an ongoing military, law enforcement, and intel operation.

00:09:26.980 He endangered American lives and the lives of our allies.

00:09:29.780 We saw the security blueprint in El Salvador.

00:09:32.500 We saw the massive number of soldiers, intel officers, law enforcement,

00:09:37.200 ready to take the most dangerous terrorist in the Western Hemisphere.

00:09:41.460 This judge ordered planes to turn around.

00:09:43.360 Did he know the fuel levels?

00:09:45.040 Did he know what the security footprint was back in America?

00:09:47.900 He did not have the power to do this.

00:09:49.380 He doesn't have the power to have this case, period.

00:09:52.180 But let alone to sabotage an ongoing military operation and expose it and endanger American

00:09:59.200 and allied lives.

00:10:00.080 This is why I'm calling for his impeachment.

00:10:01.940 And I don't say that lightly.

00:10:04.740 Dave?

00:10:06.580 Well, good to be back with you, Megan, and my friend Mike.

00:10:09.280 You know, Mike heads a group called the Article III Project.

00:10:12.420 You can see it on his wallpaper, as opposed to my background, which is of St. Bernard.

00:10:17.240 But it's called intellectual heft.

00:10:23.760 But, you know, as Mike would know, Article III, which is the judiciary, does not define the judicial power.

00:10:30.600 And so the Constitution does not limit the remedial powers of the federal courts.

00:10:35.600 And so you have Congress that could step in and put in regulations and limits.

00:10:41.900 But here, the judge is doing what a judge is supposed to do, and that is checks and balances, Marbury v. Madison judicial review.

00:10:49.100 And the judge here is saying that you can't use the Alien Enemies Act to deport these folks without more due process,

00:10:56.280 because, hold on, we're not at war with Venezuela.

00:10:58.880 There's not been a congressional act of war.

00:11:01.160 And so we're going to put a hold on this.

00:11:03.240 And the Trump administration has tried to play games with it by saying, well, we are complying with your written order,

00:11:12.300 but not your verbal order.

00:11:13.280 Also, when you came out with your order, the planes were already in international airspace.

00:11:17.740 You don't have jurisdiction.

00:11:19.540 You know, they're playing games with it.

00:11:21.760 And ultimately, it's going to be the Supreme Court that makes a decision here,

00:11:24.860 because the law is what the Supreme Court says it is.

00:11:28.000 So, so far, everything is actually going according to plan.

00:11:31.120 You know, I have to tell my folks on the left to say, hey, calm down.

00:11:34.120 This is not a coup.

00:11:35.520 This is actually the proper way to deal with this, where the administration appeals these matters all the way up to the Supreme Court.

00:11:42.480 And they have not said they're defying Judge Boasberg's order.

00:11:45.640 They're saying that Judge Boasberg's order doesn't apply because, you know, it was international airspace.

00:11:50.480 So, as of now, I'm trying to walk people off the edge.

00:11:51.840 And they're saying they didn't apply and that he didn't have the authority to issue them.

00:11:55.880 Both.

00:11:56.360 They're arguing both.

00:11:57.180 But they are complying.

00:11:58.260 They are proceeding as though he did have the authority.

00:12:01.760 Exactly.

00:12:02.220 That's why I'm trying to say that to the folks who are saying this is a coup.

00:12:05.720 No, no.

00:12:06.360 Actually, because they are saying that they are complying or if he doesn't have the power,

00:12:11.820 that actually is a legitimate argument they can take up to the Supreme Court as opposed to,

00:12:16.920 no, you do not have the authority to issue a ruling and we're going to ignore whatever ruling you come up with anyways.

00:12:23.560 That's different.

00:12:25.240 OK, but, Dave, how is it?

00:12:27.260 The federal district courts are allowed in the in the argument of the ACLU to decide whether there's been an incursion,

00:12:38.440 a predatory incursion by a foreign government.

00:12:40.900 How are they better positioned to determine that than the commander in chief and the sitting president of the United States?

00:12:47.900 Well, they're entitled to interpret the Alien Enemies Act.

00:12:52.680 And here the judge is saying there's not been a declaration of war.

00:12:56.820 And so this act does not apply, does not give the executive branch the authority to make.

00:13:02.780 You're not answering.

00:13:03.980 No, no, no.

00:13:04.780 So let me stop you there because there's three different ways that you can get Alien Enemies Act to apply.

00:13:09.320 Act of war, invasion or predatory incursion.

00:13:13.160 Trump cites, seems to be citing the latter two.

00:13:15.300 They don't seem to be arguing that we're necessarily at war with Venezuela.

00:13:18.760 But for sure, he's saying if you look at his declaration, it says invasion and predatory incursion.

00:13:23.420 So there's no question that you can have those other things without Congress.

00:13:28.380 Oh, and the executive branch has the ability to interpret that statute as it wants, just like the judiciary can say, no, no, no.

00:13:36.880 You've gone too far.

00:13:37.960 Article three gives the power of the judiciary to look at matters like this and say, no, this is our check.

00:13:43.080 This is our balance.

00:13:44.040 They're not allowed to decide political questions, Dave.

00:13:46.700 How is it not a political question whether we've suffered a predatory invasion from Venezuela? 0.99

00:13:52.420 You know who decides that, Megan?

00:13:53.720 It's the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:13:54.940 And it is telling that the Supreme Court has not jumped in.

00:13:56.920 They never questioned our declaration of war after 9-11.

00:14:00.660 They didn't question our declaration of war with respect to Iraq or Afghanistan.

00:14:04.520 The courts have typically been reluctant to go anywhere near that kind of political declaration because they understand when you're talking about political questions, the president is at the apex of his powers.

00:14:15.680 And the courts, to say they're at their nadir, they have nothing.

00:14:18.180 They have none.

00:14:18.820 Only Congress has the power to declare war.

00:14:21.960 The executive branch does not have—

00:14:23.720 Right, but this is something different.

00:14:25.560 Well, remember, the Alien Enemies Act says declaration of war, or as you correctly said, there has to be an invasion or a threatened invasion.

00:14:31.860 And the president doesn't have the unlimited, unchecked power to interpret that act to say, I'm going to decide there's an invasion.

00:14:38.600 Because if you give the president that kind of power, then Katie bar the door, there is no limit to executive power now.

00:14:44.060 We are Katie bar the door. 0.99

00:14:45.560 Let me read to you from Ledecky v. Watkins, 1948, interpreting the Alien Enemies Act.

00:14:53.700 They say, accordingly, we hold it, the full responsibility for the just exercise of this great power under the Alien Enemies Act and the declarations may validly be left where the Congress has constitutionally placed it, on the president of the United States.

00:15:05.900 The founders, in their wisdom, made him not only the commander-in-chief, but also the guiding organ in the conduct of our foreign affairs.

00:15:13.200 He who was entrusted with such vast powers in relation to the outside world was also entrusted by Congress almost throughout the whole life of the nation.

00:15:21.820 With the disposition of alien enemies during a state of war, such a page of history is worth more than a volume of rhetoric.

00:15:29.680 And they go on to say, all systems of government, this is quoting from an earlier case, suppose they are to be administered by men of common sense and common honesty.

00:15:37.960 In our country, as all ultimately depends on the voice of the people, they have it in their power.

00:15:44.820 And it is to be presumed they generally will choose men of this description.

00:15:48.580 But if they will not, the case, to be sure, is without remedy. 0.99

00:15:52.300 If they choose fools, they're talking about as leaders, they will have foolish laws. 0.99

00:15:56.040 If they choose knaves, they will have knavish ones. 0.99

00:15:58.660 But this can never be the case until they are generally fools or knaves themselves, which, thank God, is not likely ever to become the character of the American people. 0.94

00:16:05.780 The whole thing is about how if we effed up in picking the wrong leader, politics is the remedy, not courts. 0.96

00:16:14.260 Megan, there are several laws at play here.

00:16:19.060 It's the Alien Enemies Act, which we've already discussed.

00:16:21.660 And then there are the conventions against torture.

00:16:24.220 The ACLU is resting a lot also on the fact that this prison where they're sending these folks to violate federal law on torture.

00:16:31.900 I don't think that's their best argument, quite frankly.

00:16:33.680 I think the Alien Enemies Act is a better argument.

00:16:35.760 But because of these outstanding questions, the judge has a right to weigh in and to make that decision and impose an injunction.

00:16:43.520 And then it goes to the Circuit Court of Appeals, which it did.

00:16:46.560 Judicial review, two to one decision.

00:16:48.680 They said the judge did not act improperly.

00:16:51.780 And now it goes to U.S. Supreme Court.

00:16:53.280 So to me, this is happening the way it should be happening.

00:16:56.640 And the fact that U.S. Supreme Court has not jumped in already tells you that this is not an easy question where the president just gets unlimited and unchecked.

00:17:04.720 John Roberts is missing a hefty pair.

00:17:08.260 I'm sorry.

00:17:08.740 But that's what it tells me.

00:17:09.960 You tell me, Mike.

00:17:10.860 John Roberts could have said by himself he had the power to say, no, that temporary injunction that was just upheld by the Court of Appeals is lifted.

00:17:20.980 No, you're not doing that.

00:17:22.360 And there could have been a slapdown.

00:17:23.620 But now he wants to bring it to the whole court.

00:17:25.320 OK, fine, we'll do that.

00:17:26.620 But the Supreme Court should ASAP issue an order slapping down the district judge and the Court of Appeals for not understanding the difference between a legal question and a political one.

00:17:37.320 Yeah, we're in very dangerous territory when you can have a district court judge in America sabotage an ongoing military operation, order the president to turn around planes, bring back 200 of the worst terrorists in the Western Hemisphere back to America.

00:17:55.260 Without knowing if we have the security capability in place like they did in El Salvador.

00:18:00.680 This is very dangerous when judges weighed in to these commander in chief powers of the president.

00:18:06.360 So I would say this to the chief justice, John Roberts, and I would say this to Justice Amy Coney Barrett.

00:18:12.340 They failed to do their job when Judge Ali on the D.C. District Court ordered the president ordered the president to issue two billion dollars in checks in foreign aid without the president being able to do a national security review to make sure that we're not funding, for example, Hamas terrorist under the guise of Gazan humanitarian relief.

00:18:38.420 Right. And so all that did was embolden these activist judges. 1.00

00:18:42.960 And now we see Judge Bosberg taking the judiciary to the brink by threatening to hold in contempt of court Trump administration officials for not abandoning a military operation and not endangering the lives of American and their allies and landing those damn planes, which is what they had to do in this circumstance. 0.94

00:19:06.800 And so Judge Bosberg is going to take us to the brink. And this could be stopped and this could be stopped today if the chief justice, John Roberts, would do his damn job and get his judicial house in order and get these judicial saboteurs, these activist judges in line. 0.96

00:19:24.020 There was an amazing, amazing piece posted to National Review this week, co-authored by John Yoo and Robert J. 0.95

00:19:33.020 Delahunty, both of whom are very well respected attorneys.

00:19:37.280 John Yoo was instrumental in the Trump administration.

00:19:39.500 My friend, Grant Greenwald, Greenwald would really want me to tell you that his defense of some of the overreaches on torture and so on were inexcusable.

00:19:48.620 That is some people's view of John Yoo.

00:19:50.580 I think he's brilliant. And in this co-authored piece on National Review, they lay out they lay it out so clearly.

00:19:59.000 I urge everybody to go and read it. The title of it is standby.

00:20:03.300 The courts overstep in the messy clash with Trump over Trend de Aragua.

00:20:07.580 And here is what they say in part. OK, I'm going to read from it.

00:20:10.580 The two to one decision by the Court of Appeals upholding Bosberg intrudes into the province of the elected branches of government over war and national security.

00:20:17.340 A federal court has never before overruled the decision of a president or Congress that the United States has suffered an attack or an invasion.

00:20:25.020 They go on to say judicial review does not extend to every constitutional question.

00:20:30.560 The Supreme Court itself has long recognized that there are certain political questions which the Constitution itself has committed to the final decision of the president or Congress or which have no legal standards that the courts can apply.

00:20:43.700 That's the problem here. There's no Judge Bosberg does not know better than Trump whether an invasion has happened.

00:20:51.980 He doesn't. There are no legal standards for him to use in determining that.

00:20:56.640 That is a call by the chief executive, by the commander in chief who is getting intelligence briefings, who has classified information coming to him on a daily basis of what the Venezuelans are doing.

00:21:06.980 And as we pointed out in another piece that we discussed earlier this week, which we mentioned by Bart Marquois, there is evidence that the Venezuelan government works with Trenda Aragua and has intentionally sent them here.

00:21:21.480 Quoting here from the piece, the Venezuelan, this is from this is from a law enforcement high level investigator who is actually on the ground saying, quote,

00:21:29.980 The Venezuelan regime has assumed operational control of Trenda Aragua, has trained 300 of them.

00:21:35.800 They've given them paramilitary training, training them to fire weapons and how to conduct sabotage.

00:21:40.580 They have given them all a four to six week course.

00:21:43.360 They put these 300 guys through that course and then they were deploying them into the United States at 20 separate states in 20 separate states.

00:21:51.160 And by the way, the Alien Enemies Act, Dave, only requires that there be an attempted, an attempted predatory incursion.

00:22:00.560 We're there.

00:22:01.920 How how do you say Judge Bozberg is better positioned with zero, zero presidential daily briefs, zero access to classified information that he gets from Tulsi Gabbard and all those around him who head up the Pentagon and the national intelligence branches

00:22:18.120 to make a call on whether we're suffering from an attempted predatory incursion.

00:22:23.020 How is he better suited than the commander in chief?

00:22:25.240 Well, I'm thankful that there is a judge out there and judges in the appellate court who actually are trying to constrain the unlimited power of the executive branch,

00:22:34.100 especially when you have these intelligence folks who apparently aren't such so good at their jobs that there are people out there who are sent to this prison who are not gang members.

00:22:43.340 And so that's where the judge should be stepping in to at least to check the power of the federal government to make sure that they're complying with the law of the people.

00:22:52.440 Right. But still.

00:22:53.160 So but just just for the record, that's twice you've gotten out of bounds on alien enemies.

00:22:56.720 Once you've said they basically get a habeas review, which is a different thing.

00:23:00.080 And secondly, you said that this may be torture, which is a different thing.

00:23:04.720 On the big, big question of whether Trump can use the Alien Enemies Act to summarily deport suspected Venezuelan gang members.

00:23:12.300 It's a win for President Trump.

00:23:14.000 And once that's a win for President Trump, we can nitpick about whether an individual guy gets a habeas review, et cetera.

00:23:19.460 But it's a huge win for the Trump administration.

00:23:21.380 And it's very important one because what the left is to ACLU right now is trying to do is clip the wings of our sitting commander in chief.

00:23:28.300 Go ahead.

00:23:28.600 Well, I'm glad that he's targeting this dangerous gang, but I'm not glad that there are individuals who have been deported who are not members of the gang without any due process.

00:23:39.260 And so I actually like the fact that there are judges out there who are trying to slow down this process to make sure they get it right.

00:23:45.980 And that Alien Enemies Act is not absolute.

00:23:49.120 It doesn't give the president unlimited authority without any check.

00:23:52.160 There's still Marbury versus Madison judicial review.

00:23:54.900 There are still Article three judges out there.

00:23:56.660 You keep saying that.

00:23:57.720 Right.

00:23:57.920 But also, can I just say, I'm reading here again from the John Yoo piece.

00:24:02.260 OK, recognizing these limits to the judicial role is no dereliction of duty.

00:24:08.220 In Marbury versus Madison, the very case that first declared the power of judicial review, in that case, the court said, we say what the lies.

00:24:14.480 The courts are the ones who say what the law is.

00:24:17.320 Chief Justice John Marshall used his own discretion, quote.

00:24:21.320 Quote, OK, he says for his decisions, quote, he, the president, is accountable only to his country in his political character and to his own conscience, end quote.

00:24:33.700 His choices cannot be questioned in court because, quote, the subjects are political, end quote.

00:24:38.560 These issues, quote, respect the nation, not individual rights and being entrusted to the executive.

00:24:44.480 The decision of the executive is conclusive.

00:24:46.900 They, too, understood, Dave, that if it's a political question, it is not the courts that have the final say.

00:24:53.160 The unitary executive theory, where pretty much the president is the most powerful of the three branches of government.

00:25:00.780 And I get it. And John Roberts seems to agree with that, that he was the one who authored the immunity ruling.

00:25:05.040 So it is telling that that same John Roberts is not moving to protect President Trump from judicial review because he knows what the lower courts know.

00:25:14.680 And that is the executive branch's domination is not absolute here.

00:25:18.480 The executive branch does have power, but they are checked by the other two co-equal branches of government.

00:25:23.820 And this is the first time in history that Congress has stepped back and emasculated itself and given all of its power to the presidency, to the executive branch.

00:25:30.940 So I'm glad that there are judges out there who are at least doing their job to slow down this unquestioned.

00:25:36.660 I mean, it was the Congress of 1798 that did that, Dave.

00:25:40.700 He makes it sound like it's Mike Johnson, Mike Davis.

00:25:44.620 You know, like it was the Congress of 1798 that said we are choosing to give the executive these extraordinary powers and without judicial review.

00:25:52.680 And the Supreme Court in interpreting that act said there's no judicial review of this.

00:25:59.140 It's a political question that we are out of our lane if we try to take on.

00:26:02.740 Mike, let me get you to weigh in on it.

00:26:04.180 Let me just read you just another little snippet from the John UPs.

00:26:07.280 Again, well worth everyone's time.

00:26:08.720 He goes on to say, courts have studiously avoided second guessing the decisions of the elected branches of government.

00:26:15.320 Federal judges refused to rule on the legality of not just the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but every war in American history, even the Guantanamo Bay cases.

00:26:22.600 There they deferred to the decision of President George W. Bush, etc.

00:26:26.620 Now he goes on to say the following.

00:26:28.000 In the case by the D.C. Circuit that affirmed the temporary restraining order against Trump's deportation powers under alien enemies, he says the D.C. Circuit ignored the judiciary's traditional deference on questions of war.

00:26:43.420 Judge Karen Henderson's opinion, Karen, Karen, sorry.

00:26:48.040 She displayed little modesty in rejecting the claim that Trenda Uragua's conduct qualified as an invasion.

00:26:54.380 Based on her review of the history of the 1798 Act, she concluded that an invasion, quote, required far more than an unwanted entry to constitute an invasion.

00:27:03.980 There had to be hostilities.

00:27:05.660 She observes that, quote, in every instance in the Constitution, in laws and debates of the time, invasion is used in a military sense.

00:27:13.880 Same goes, she concludes, for predatory incursions.

00:27:17.000 U goes on.

00:27:18.200 On this ground alone, the Supreme Court should grant emergency review of this case.

00:27:21.620 Federal judges do not have the capability, the understanding or access to information to make sensitive decisions on whether a foreign actor represents a national security threat, nor can they judge the harms that could arise from action or inaction.

00:27:39.440 Courts are not designed to make policy decisions involving probabilities and risks, which are characteristic of war and national security.

00:27:47.400 I would say, Mike, I would say this judge, Karen Henderson, lovely lady, but she's like this 80 year old judge, Republican appointed judge who hires all these liberal law clerks, all these liberal law clerks, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. 1.00

00:28:06.460 And it's time for Judge Henderson to step down, and it's time for Judge Henderson to step down and retire.

00:28:13.940 And this case is a perfect example.

00:28:16.340 She's just clearly wrong here, and she's dangerously wrong here.

00:28:21.240 When you have judges taking on the president's commander in chief role and trying to second guess the president when he's trying to expel foreign terrorists who are working with enemy countries to sabotage America.

00:28:36.440 That is his constitutional duty as commander in chief to get these terrorists the hell out of our country.

00:28:42.900 And any judge who thinks that they have the power to second guess and get in the way should not be on the bench.

00:28:50.680 OK, now let's talk about the individual rights.

00:28:53.120 I really feel very strongly, contrary to what you say, Dave, contrary to the argument I had with Charles C.W. Cook on this podcast two weeks ago.

00:29:02.060 Trump has this power under the Alien Enemies Act, and it's really clear.

00:29:05.180 And I think these judges are way out over their skis. 0.52

00:29:08.100 And I actually do have hope that the Supreme Court is going to slap them and hard and remind them that they're unelected judges, that nobody elected them to do anything.

00:29:15.800 They're not commander in chief.

00:29:17.020 Judge Bozberg's had his fun playing mini commander.

00:29:20.140 He's not.

00:29:21.340 However, on the right to individual review where one person says, wait, I'm not Trenda Aragua.

00:29:29.060 That actually can be heard.

00:29:31.180 And the administration has conceded that.

00:29:34.200 They've conceded that.

00:29:35.460 And actually, if I went back and did a dive, my God helped me into other cases interpreting the Alien Enemies Act, including one that came down in 1813.

00:29:45.060 Gentlemen, this is how I spent my morning.

00:29:46.480 This is how much I love you.

00:29:47.760 1813 cases I was looking at where the court later clarified in a case called Lockington v.

00:29:53.920 Smith, that judicial review, they had said that judicial review into whether an individual is actually an alien enemy is OK.

00:30:01.900 Like that that we will allow not to whether the president had the power to declare it or use it, but individual circumstances like I'm not Trenda Aragua.

00:30:10.340 Yes, you can have judicial review.

00:30:11.440 And then they went back in Lockington in 1813 and said that review need only be available subsequent to incarceration.

00:30:20.820 So Trump did no wrong.

00:30:22.440 He did no wrong putting them on a plane and shipping them off to this El Salvadorian prison. 0.64

00:30:26.900 But now, and this is why the administration is conceding it, they will have to give individual hearings where the person is claiming I'm not Trenda Aragua.

00:30:37.860 And I don't exactly know how that happens.

00:30:40.880 I don't I'm not sure.

00:30:42.760 I don't know.

00:30:43.680 I don't even know what the procedure for that would be, Dave.

00:30:46.040 Do you have any idea?

00:30:46.840 I don't know once they're in another country.

00:30:50.480 And I do think he did wrong in that they put him on the plane after the judge said, you can't do this anymore.

00:30:57.360 So they knew what the judge ruled.

00:30:58.620 And they were, like I said, they were playing games.

00:31:01.120 But just to be clear, it appears they only did that with plane number three.

00:31:05.540 Planes number one and two were already airborne when the judge issued that.

00:31:09.440 Right.

00:31:10.000 But the ruling refused to turn the planes around.

00:31:12.200 That is true.

00:31:12.720 Right.

00:31:13.200 Correct.

00:31:13.520 And just because you're in international airspace doesn't mean the judge's ruling doesn't apply to you.

00:31:16.980 Or else, wow, that'd be fun.

00:31:18.480 Every time there's a judge's ruling, you just send the people into international airspace and then torture them for whatever you need to do.

00:31:25.060 Also, you know, you're right.

00:31:26.500 I don't know what the process is now.

00:31:27.780 It's uncharted territory now that they're in an El Salvador jail.

00:31:31.860 And I don't know.

00:31:33.260 But, you know, there is something that we haven't mentioned yet.

00:31:37.260 It's the War Powers Act, which is of 1973, which does show that Congress has a say in all of this.

00:31:43.100 Now, what's unusual now is that Congress has decided to give up their rights and say, you know what, we're going to step back.

00:31:48.740 We're not going to have any power now, which is why I think the judges have stepped up more aggressively than Mike would have liked.

00:31:56.500 I mean, that's all very sweet, but they don't have the power, Mike.

00:32:00.860 I mean, here's the issue.

00:32:02.260 Even if these terrorists are entitled to some sort of judicial review, it was not in the D.C. district court.

00:32:10.660 It was not with Judge Bozberg.

00:32:12.060 He wasn't even the emergency judge four Saturdays ago when he opened up his courtroom, when he exposed this ongoing military operation, when he endangered American and allied lives.

00:32:23.520 I mean, this was a very high-stakes operation.

00:32:27.040 And separate from that, look at the foreign policy implications of this.

00:32:31.920 El Salvador president takes this high risk to take these terrorists, and then he has the planes turn around.

00:32:40.220 What foreign leader would want to cut a deal with the president of the United States if they're going to be humiliated because an activist judge decides that they're going to be the commander-in-chief on Saturday and sabotage and abort the operation?

00:32:55.920 And you've undermined that leader in his country.

00:32:58.960 I mean, separate from the security issue, you're damaging the president's ability to conduct foreign affairs.

00:33:05.520 Here's what's really crazy.

00:33:06.920 As far as we can see, nobody, including the ACLU, I raised this question repeatedly this week saying I'm looking into the legality of shipping them out.

00:33:17.640 I mean, not that.

00:33:18.940 I accept he has the power, as I've just argued for the past half hour plus.

00:33:23.280 But is it legal to put them in prison?

00:33:25.640 Like, that to me is an interesting question.

00:33:27.160 How do they wind up in prison without due process on criminal charges against them, you know, for being gang members, for committing alleged crimes?

00:33:38.000 How do you—like, I get how you deport them.

00:33:40.040 You can ship them back to where they came from.

00:33:42.560 That's no problem.

00:33:43.300 You can ship them back to where they were born.

00:33:45.660 The law recognizes that.

00:33:47.860 I just don't know how you can ship them into a prison.

00:33:50.260 But here's the weird thing.

00:33:52.040 As far as I can tell, literally nobody's even arguing that that's an issue.

00:33:57.000 Like, literally nobody.

00:33:58.220 Even the ACLU is not making that their argument.

00:34:00.440 Dave, they're saying, well, they're putting them into jails in which they could be tortured.

00:34:06.100 But they're not saying they're putting them into jails.

00:34:09.080 Right.

00:34:09.880 Right.

00:34:10.460 I noticed that, too, Megan.

00:34:11.820 And they're holding their hat on the torture because that's an infamous prison where they have been put, but not on the fact that they're in a jail to begin with.

00:34:21.340 So that is something I must—I guess you must have found some sort of ambiguity in the law that would allow the administration to deport people into prisons.

00:34:29.800 But, you know, this is a notorious prison.

00:34:31.580 And I didn't like—I don't know what you guys thought, but I didn't really love the image of Chrissy Noem standing in front with her Rolex watch in front of those—

00:34:39.720 I just—it gave me North Korea vibes.

00:34:42.320 I didn't like that the United States was putting out a propaganda video like that.

00:34:44.760 I did not like it, and I did a big bit on it.

00:34:47.380 But, you know, people disagree.

00:34:49.280 I would say my audience is split.

00:34:50.340 I actually expected them to be totally against me and you, Dave, on that and say, you know what.

00:34:54.740 But actually they were about—they were about, I'd say, 55 percent in our camp and 45 percent in defense of her.

00:35:01.120 And the reason they are, I think, Mike, is like cases like the one that just came down today out of South Carolina,

00:35:07.540 where another illegal was out there driving a car without a driver's license, of course, ran a stop sign,

00:35:15.020 and killed some college student with his whole life in front of him.

00:35:18.040 You know, just run over and then abandoned, hit and run in the middle of the night.

00:35:24.140 That's why. 1.00

00:35:24.900 That's why people don't give a shit. 0.99

00:35:26.780 You know, that's why it's like I—as soon as I have my, like— 0.99

00:35:30.400 I don't know if it's just my human heartstrings that get pulled when I see the Chrissy Noem thing

00:35:35.380 with the guys behind her, like human props, just makes me uncomfortable.

00:35:39.700 Then they go out the window, you know, because like, look what these guys are doing to us.

00:35:44.500 They're killing our kids.

00:35:46.420 So what would the left do?

00:35:49.100 You know, it's like that's one of the problems here, Mike, as we look at this.

00:35:51.240 It's like, what are the other solutions?

00:35:52.820 Trump is cleaning up a mess.

00:35:55.340 Look, for four years, the Biden Justice Department persecuted Trump supporters

00:36:00.480 who trespassed into the Capitol, and I didn't hear the left losing any sleep

00:36:05.660 over Trump grandmas in the D.C. gulag.

00:36:09.460 But the second we have the most vicious terrorist in the Western Hemisphere,

00:36:14.380 Trendea Raguel, along with MS-13 gang members who were sent to our country from Venezuela

00:36:19.980 to sabotage our country. 0.63

00:36:22.280 They are kidnapping.

00:36:23.440 They are robbing. 0.99

00:36:24.620 They are raping. 1.00

00:36:25.620 They are torturing. 1.00

00:36:26.620 Look, Joe Biden let 15 million illegal immigrants into our country.

00:36:31.880 I used to be a lot more liberal when it comes to immigration, legal immigration.

00:36:38.060 I'm pretty anti-immigration right now, and I just have very little sympathy

00:36:41.740 for any of these Trendea Raguel or MS-13 terrorists.

00:36:47.780 Mm-hmm.

00:36:49.140 Let's keep going, because there's other cases, too.

00:36:51.340 Can we spend a minute on this Judge Reyes, Mike Davis, who has decided

00:36:55.560 the Trump administration is synonymous with animus.

00:36:59.020 Pete Hegseth, as the sec-deaf, cannot say trans people cannot serve in the military 0.89

00:37:03.720 because it's full of animus, meaning hatred, against trans people.

00:37:08.820 And she says, I know I'm going to be taking up an appeal,

00:37:12.420 but I'm basically doing the right thing because I'm standing up for trans people

00:37:16.220 and animus, animus, animus.

00:37:19.120 And you say?

00:37:20.600 This is insane.

00:37:21.720 What we're dealing with are people who have gender dysphoria. 1.00

00:37:26.400 They have severe mental illness.

00:37:29.300 And, you know, you can have compassion for people with gender dysphoria, 0.98

00:37:33.020 but to have a judge force severely mentally ill people into our military

00:37:38.420 undermines our troop readiness.

00:37:41.280 It undermines, once again, it undermines the president's commander-in-chief powers.

00:37:46.700 And, you know, this is not the same as letting black people into the military. 0.94

00:37:50.480 This is not even the same as letting gay people into the military. 0.98

00:37:53.560 You're dealing with a severe mental illness, and you're putting them into our military. 0.96

00:37:59.980 It's not appropriate for these judges to do this.

00:38:03.300 And this is another instance, once again, where the chief justice needs to get his judicial house

00:38:09.380 in order, or Congress is going to do it for him.

00:38:12.840 This judge went on about how, oh, we've always had disadvantaged groups,

00:38:16.760 marginalized persons who haven't been allowed to serve.

00:38:20.360 But, you know, that doesn't make it right to do that now against trans people.

00:38:25.040 She's the one who questioned Pete Hegseth's service.

00:38:28.160 She's like, oh, you know, I don't even know if he's really been in active combat.

00:38:31.600 Meanwhile, he served three tours of duty.

00:38:34.060 She's like, I'm going to defer to the joint chief's commander of the last administration

00:38:38.600 instead of our current sec def and our current commander-in-chief.

00:38:41.680 What do you think of Judge Reyes, Dave?

00:38:45.020 I read the ruling, Megan, and here's the part that I thought was interesting,

00:38:49.560 is that the Secretary of Defense and the administration decided not to say

00:38:53.940 transgender individuals cannot serve. 1.00

00:38:56.500 They didn't say that. 0.98

00:38:57.480 They said, we are classifying gender dysmorphia as a medical condition,

00:39:02.600 like heart disease, that keeps you out of the military.

00:39:06.560 You know, like flat feet, which I don't know if flat feet still keeps you out,

00:39:09.300 but I definitely have it.

00:39:10.420 So here's the thing.

00:39:11.660 If you wanted to keep out transgender service members from the military, then say so. 1.00

00:39:16.700 But they didn't do that because I guess they thought they would be repudiated by the court.

00:39:19.920 So instead, they came up with a ruse.

00:39:21.880 And the ruse was really bad.

00:39:23.220 It's like, no, no, we're not against transgender individuals.

00:39:25.540 We just think that gender dysmorphia makes you unable to be a fit service member. 0.99

00:39:30.440 And yet there's a history of people who have served very capably

00:39:33.720 who are transgender service members.

00:39:36.040 And so I think the argument that they did was a fake argument, a ruse, and the court saw through it.

00:39:41.660 So I don't have an issue with the court's ruling.

00:39:43.960 It will be taken up on appeal.

00:39:45.200 And ultimately, it will get to the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:39:47.780 Will, what do you think of that one?

00:39:49.060 Is that one going to get reversed?

00:39:50.320 I'll start with you on it, Dave.

00:39:51.200 I think the way that the ruling came out where they said, if you want to ban transgender individuals,

00:40:00.000 say so and make an argument for doing so.

00:40:02.020 But you can't do it through this other method of just saying, we're going to classify gender dysmorphia

00:40:07.460 as a condition that makes you incapable of serving, like having terrible asthma or something.

00:40:13.360 So I think in that case, that argument will fail before the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:40:17.440 And I think Judge Reyes will ultimately be upheld.

00:40:19.740 Mike?

00:40:22.300 When you're dealing with transgender, you never know, because my former boss, 1.00

00:40:26.540 Neil Gorsuch, gets a little weird on these cases.

00:40:28.660 So who knows how he's going to rule that day.

00:40:32.360 But I think if you follow the law, the president, as the commander in chief,

00:40:36.240 has the constitutional duty to make sure that our troops are ready to fight and win wars.

00:40:41.500 And when you put severely mentally ill people in the ranks, 0.97

00:40:45.260 that undermines the president's commander in chief powers.

00:40:48.180 Back on the initial case we were discussing, Mike, do you think, because it certainly sounded

00:40:53.540 from that hearing yesterday, that Judge Bosberg, who's trying to determine whether Trump is in

00:40:58.060 contempt of court, the Trump admin, because of the planes not turning around midair,

00:41:02.520 he we reported on our AM update show this morning.

00:41:07.320 Margo Cleveland, who listened to the whole thing for the Federalist, was saying what he was the way he was speaking was.

00:41:12.800 It's not a question of whether it's just a question of who exactly violated my order.

00:41:16.960 And that's all I'm really looking to find out and was getting very angry.

00:41:21.380 This is our reporting based on our readings of the various news reports was getting very angry at the Department of Justice for not saying

00:41:27.560 specifically who they told to stop the planes and who refused that instruction based on the judge's order.

00:41:36.080 And he kept taking his glasses off and throwing them on the table.

00:41:39.920 He was reportedly scowling and scoffing, says Julie Kelly, who was watching the whole thing.

00:41:44.880 So it certainly looks like he's going to hold the Trump administration in contempt of court.

00:41:50.480 So if you assume he does that and then they appeal and I guess the D.C.

00:41:53.820 Circuit, maybe this panel or another could potentially uphold it.

00:41:57.420 What does that look like?

00:41:58.640 How do you what what what what do they do?

00:42:01.720 Find him somebody going to jail for a few days?

00:42:03.640 Like, what does it even look like?

00:42:05.040 I would say this to D.C.

00:42:06.620 Obama Judge Jeb Boesberg.

00:42:08.920 You should step back from the brink here because you are going to light on fire the federal judiciary's legitimacy.

00:42:16.360 And that's all the judiciary has is its legitimacy.

00:42:19.540 Once it loses its legitimacy with with the American people, it loses everything.

00:42:24.640 It doesn't have an army.

00:42:25.980 It can't enforce its orders.

00:42:28.140 It has to do it through the executive branch.

00:42:30.340 And this is the one case.

00:42:32.000 And I've never done this before.

00:42:33.560 Not only have I called for Judge Boesberg's impeachment, this is the only time I have ever publicly advocated that you ignore an order of a course, because not only is this so, so illegal, what this judge did by trying to interfere and sabotage and undermine the president during a military operation.

00:42:52.520 And it's so dangerous what he did.

00:42:55.240 So it's it's highly illegal and highly dangerous.

00:42:58.240 He put American and allied lives in grave danger by exposing this operation.

00:43:03.100 He undermined the president's ability to conduct foreign affairs.

00:43:07.000 And I would say this.

00:43:07.860 I was a law clerk before.

00:43:09.280 I don't think that the law clerks that Judge Boesberg hires are Green Berets. 0.81

00:43:14.140 They can't turn around planes and they're not going to be able to enforce this order.

00:43:17.600 So if he holds if Judge Boesberg holds Trump officials in contempt, I think that the president, if it's criminal contempt, the president should pardon immediately.

00:43:27.000 And if it's civil contempt, I would say to Boesberg, piss off, go enforce your own order.

00:43:31.720 That's the danger here, Dave, is the Supreme Court, John Roberts in particular, very conscious of the fact that there's no police power by the high court.

00:43:40.980 And on a question as tenuous as this, right, like, as I said before, Trump at his apex and the courts at their lowest.

00:43:49.560 Do we think John Roberts would take the risk of saying.

00:43:53.740 Yeah, you you have to stop deporting under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:43:58.800 And, yeah, I can I affirm the contempt holding that Judge Boesberg is likely about to hand down.

00:44:05.500 I mean, it's it's very, very thin ice.

00:44:08.760 I think, Megan, that this Supreme Court is going to uphold Judge Boesberg.

00:44:13.960 I think they're tipping their hand by their inaction so far.

00:44:16.760 They could have acted and reversed that injunction already.

00:44:20.320 I do think the interpretation that this administration is making on the Alien Enemies Act is overbroad.

00:44:25.700 But we'll see what the Supreme Court says.

00:44:27.480 And as far as that's very interesting what you just said, the tipping of the hand.

00:44:31.480 Keep going.

00:44:32.760 And as far as the contempt, I actually agree with Mike on that.

00:44:35.360 I don't think Judge Boesberg wants to go down that road because if he does issue contempt against administration officials, it's up to the marshal's office to enforce it.

00:44:45.860 And the marshal's office is under the executive branch.

00:44:48.820 Now, there is something obscure in the law that says that if the marshal's office doesn't want to do it, you can actually go to like local sheriffs.

00:44:56.000 But can you imagine that happening?

00:44:57.580 They'll go to the local sheriff to arrest the lawyers for DOJ. 0.70

00:45:00.740 No, I that I think I think Judge Boesberg realizes that.

00:45:03.920 So I think any sanction will be something so minor it won't cause much of a ripple.

00:45:08.460 Yeah, this is going to be it, Davey.

00:45:10.400 How long till we hear the left start to say, like, this is our chance to get Trump back in jail?

00:45:16.740 This is Judge Boesberg.

00:45:19.720 He's going to do it.

00:45:21.280 Yeah, I I don't think I just don't understand how it could even work.

00:45:24.580 Can I ask you, Mike Davis, what since the Trump administration is conceding that there's an individual habeas right?

00:45:30.460 And all that means for the listening audience is you have the right to say, like, I've been detained wrongfully.

00:45:35.560 If they say, Megan Kelly, you committed a murder and you're in jail, you know, here's you're being arrested here.

00:45:39.760 You have the right to say, I'm not Megan Kelly.

00:45:42.640 I am.

00:45:43.660 I'm Karen, whatever.

00:45:44.840 And so the Trump administration is admitting, is conceding, at least in the Boesberg case, that there is an individual habeas right for people to challenge being labeled Trenda Aragua under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:46:00.380 So how should that go down?

00:46:02.580 Because what's happening is we're shipping them off to this El Salvadorian prison, which is not great.

00:46:07.580 I mean, even our own State Department and others talk about what happens in these El Salvadorian prisons, and it's very unattractive.

00:46:13.440 I mean, they're housed like animals, like in like a pigsty with like 100 people in a cell and no mattresses.

00:46:20.020 And the cleanliness has got questions, at least reportedly.

00:46:24.440 OK, so how does it happen and who offers them a hearing?

00:46:29.700 And like, you know, a lot of ink has been spilled this week on this Kilmar Abrego Garcia, this guy who was found by a lower judge and then a higher appellate court in the immigration system to have ties to MS-13.

00:46:41.020 But the media would just tell you he's a father.

00:46:43.140 He's a father of a little boy and he's married to an American citizen.

00:46:46.120 He got pulled out of obscurity and sent to this prison.

00:46:49.660 It's a lot more complicated than that.

00:46:51.120 But if this guy wants to have a hearing on whether he's really Trenda Aragua, how does it happen?

00:46:56.160 It's a good question.

00:46:57.180 I mean, he could file a habeas petition in Texas where the planes took off.

00:47:02.860 Maybe we can come up with a good solution.

00:47:04.640 Maybe we can send Judge Boesberg and his law clerks down to that El Salvadorian prison and he could be the prison lawyer and he can handle all these.

00:47:12.020 It's an amazing idea.

00:47:13.700 And I think it'd be a good way we can impeach Boesberg and make him the prison lawyer in El Salvador.

00:47:18.620 Yeah.

00:47:19.220 It's like a form of president.

00:47:20.820 You're president of the prison.

00:47:22.360 Clearly, you're looking for executive authority.

00:47:24.700 You know, but we do, I think, I think there needs to be some established procedure.

00:47:28.980 And again, under the 1813 Supreme Court interpretation of all of this, they it's OK if they don't give him a hearing before they deport him under Alien Enemies Act.

00:47:38.440 He's fine there.

00:47:39.140 And even before they imprison them.

00:47:41.060 But at some point, if these individuals are saying they're not Trenda Aragua, we're going to have to hear those claims in some way, shape or form.

00:47:47.840 And, Dave, the other question is what they're supposed to be paid.

00:47:51.600 We paid them six million bucks to house these prisoners for a year.

00:47:58.540 So what happens after the year?

00:48:00.180 Does anybody know?

00:48:01.280 Do they like.

00:48:03.200 They just get that out.

00:48:04.540 I don't think El Salvador wants them milling about.

00:48:07.340 Now, that's the contract expires at the end of the year.

00:48:10.180 They have to renegotiate like any other contract.

00:48:12.640 It's a pretty good deal for the administration.

00:48:15.200 Fair.

00:48:15.560 But right. But let's just hope that they get it right, because any person who's wrongfully detained there really is a tragedy, because that is a terrible facility.

00:48:23.720 And you would hate for innocent people to be sent there.

00:48:26.900 And hopefully there will be some due process where they will have hearings.

00:48:29.880 But like I said earlier, it were an uncharted territory here.

00:48:32.900 And and so I might guess as good as mine as to what the next step would be.

00:48:37.060 You know, Mike, today on Instagram, I saw this young gal who was talking about medical tourism and she went to Turkey.

00:48:44.960 And in one day had every test you could have done on your body scan and blood tests and so on and dental work.

00:48:51.140 I mean, you name it, they did it.

00:48:52.620 And apparently she only paid 800 bucks for this in Turkey. 1.00

00:48:55.100 So it's medical tourism.

00:48:57.060 I mean, what I feel like Trump is engaging in in penal tourism where he's getting this.

00:49:03.800 You know how much it would cost to house 300 prisoners here in the United States for a year?

00:49:09.560 Way more than six million bucks.

00:49:11.280 This is like the Turkish. 0.91

00:49:12.800 This is the equivalent of the Turkish day spa. 0.98

00:49:15.040 I would say to these illegal immigrants, particularly these terrorists, there's a new sheriff in town. 1.00

00:49:20.740 And if you come to America, we're not going to put you up in four star hotels anymore. 1.00

00:49:24.360 We're going to put you in an El Salvadorian prison. 1.00

00:49:27.380 Yeah.

00:49:27.800 Times have changed.

00:49:28.980 You guys are the best.

00:49:30.000 I've missed you.

00:49:30.960 Thank you so much for coming back.

00:49:33.240 Thank you.

00:49:33.640 Thanks for having us back, Megan.

00:49:35.220 All right.

00:49:35.640 You guys see you soon.

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00:50:43.220 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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00:51:44.140 Welcome back to The Megan Kelly Show.

00:51:45.820 We are continuing to get incredible details about the downfall of former President Biden's campaign and presidency from two new books.

00:51:54.640 One of the new details includes Hollywood actor George Clooney once raging against Morning Joe's Mika Brzezinski.

00:51:59.980 I love this story.

00:52:01.480 I love it.

00:52:02.360 It's for so many reasons, which we'll get to.

00:52:04.740 Joining me now to discuss that and so much more is Mike Solana.

00:52:07.860 Mike runs a news outlet called Pirate Wires.

00:52:10.380 Last time he was on our show, we got a huge response from our viewers and listeners, so we are glad to have him back on.

00:52:15.760 Great to see you again.

00:52:16.520 Thanks for having me back.

00:52:17.760 Okay.

00:52:18.120 So I love this George Clooney story.

00:52:20.520 And let me make sure that I have the proper attribution so that I protect the innocent, the good reporters who are actually bringing this stuff out.

00:52:29.020 Hold on.

00:52:29.300 Where is it?

00:52:29.720 Where did I put it?

00:52:31.140 Where is it, Deb?

00:52:31.860 Oh, it's in the original.

00:52:32.720 It's in the AM update.

00:52:33.600 Sorry, guys.

00:52:34.660 Okay.

00:52:35.580 So this is the Whipple book that we talked about the other day.

00:52:44.020 This Whipple book is, let's see, Chris Whipple, and it's called Unchartered, How Trump Beat Biden, Harris, and the Odds in the Wildest Campaign in History.

00:52:53.340 Well, new nuggets are breaking.

00:52:56.920 Tara Palmieri, who's got her own substack and podcast now, she's been on the show.

00:53:01.620 So she got a copy and released a couple of the nuggets, and so did The Guardian.

00:53:06.800 But hers was a really interesting nugget.

00:53:09.860 And she's apparently in this book, they reveal that George Clooney saw Morning Joe one day right after his op-ed, and Mika Brzezinski was suggesting that Barack Obama was behind the George Clooney op-ed.

00:53:27.080 That was basically making Clooney seem like Obama's puppet.

00:53:29.660 But here's the Mika clip.

00:53:31.780 I'm going to walk you through it.

00:53:32.540 Watch it.

00:53:32.880 It's not 22.

00:53:34.600 This wasn't George Clooney.

00:53:36.600 But, well, what do you mean?

00:53:39.000 It just wasn't.

00:53:40.000 Come on.

00:53:40.680 Well, who do you think it was?

00:53:42.180 Matt Damon?

00:53:43.000 It was not Matt Damon.

00:53:44.480 Who do you think it was?

00:53:44.780 It wasn't Julia Roberts either.

00:53:46.180 Who do you think it was?

00:53:47.600 You can say the name.

00:53:48.960 You won't melt.

00:53:49.680 It's not Voldemort.

00:53:51.800 Are you saying you think Barack Obama put him up to this?

00:53:54.800 I think that Barack Obama has a lot of influence.

00:54:00.300 Okay.

00:54:01.420 Literally everyone thinks that he put him up to it.

00:54:03.440 I mean, this is like, but here's what is reported.

00:54:06.600 Whipple writes,

00:54:07.240 At 10.05 a.m. after Morning Joe had wrapped that show,

00:54:11.620 one of the show's producers walked into his Manhattan apartment.

00:54:14.060 His phone started buzzing and he answered.

00:54:16.080 The voice was familiar.

00:54:17.880 How the F could you let her link me with Barack Obama saying he made me write the op-ed?

00:54:22.880 It was George Clooney.

00:54:24.740 The producer pushed back.

00:54:26.400 Listen, I didn't do that, he said.

00:54:28.360 You F'd me! 0.79

00:54:29.600 Only with the real word, Clooney shouted.

00:54:32.360 You're my friend.

00:54:33.540 You should have stood up for me.

00:54:34.740 Oh my God, you little baby, you man child.

00:54:37.560 Okay, that was me.

00:54:39.240 George, the producer said,

00:54:40.840 This is not an effing movie.

00:54:42.740 There's no script.

00:54:44.080 It's not, it's just not a movie where you go script page to script page.

00:54:48.320 F you, replied Clooney.

00:54:50.260 F yourself, said the producer.

00:54:52.720 The exchange of F-bombs lasted about five minutes before Clooney hung up.

00:54:56.060 A few minutes later, he called back for another round of cursing and arguing.

00:54:58.980 The actor called a third time just after noon and the shouting match went on.

00:55:02.740 The producer had had enough.

00:55:03.840 This is a morning talk show on a cable channel, he shouted at Clooney.

00:55:07.480 Nobody gives an F what we say, or if we say he should get out or if he should stay in.

00:55:12.680 Nobody effing cares.

00:55:14.100 It's skywriting.

00:55:15.340 It's effing gone.

00:55:16.820 George, I told you before, we'll try and take care of it tomorrow morning.

00:55:20.080 I promise you.

00:55:21.780 I don't know whether I trust you, replied Clooney.

00:55:24.680 Well, F you, said the producer.

00:55:26.200 If you don't trust me, stop effing calling me. 0.99

00:55:28.840 Okay, we just got, we got to spend a minute on how pathetic these characters come across. 0.99

00:55:33.520 Right? 0.92

00:55:33.920 Like, I'm tough and I'm telling George Clooney to F off, but I promise we'll take it back tomorrow.

00:55:38.480 I've got you.

00:55:39.120 Please don't hate me, George Clooney.

00:55:40.600 What I don't understand is why he, I mean, presumably he wants people to know that he's

00:55:45.120 associated with Barack Obama.

00:55:46.320 So maybe the interesting tell here is actually that Obama has declined in relevance.

00:55:50.600 Is that like really the reason that he's angry?

00:55:53.020 It's like, don't tell me that I'm, that I'm like Obama's patsy.

00:55:56.160 Well, why not?

00:55:56.900 Like that would be, that would carry some weight for a George Clooney previous era, but maybe

00:56:01.160 not as much anymore.

00:56:02.000 Well, you saw in the recent poll of democratic front runners or leaders, who is the leader

00:56:05.380 of the democratic party?

00:56:06.700 Barack Obama only got 4%.

00:56:07.880 I know.

00:56:08.380 And I really thought it was him until, until that, until that poll, I think AOC had 10%.

00:56:13.520 So that's, that's not good for, that's not really good for the Democrats to be honest.

00:56:18.640 Well, I can understand why as a man, you would feel totally emasculated by what is probably

00:56:24.940 the truth, which is you were just the puppet to a more important man's opinions.

00:56:30.280 You know, you may think that your president, he thinks he's a journalist now because he played

00:56:34.220 one in a movie years ago.

00:56:35.460 He's out there lecturing journalists on how to do journalism and be great at the end of

00:56:39.360 his new Broadway play.

00:56:40.360 Um, maybe he thinks he's president too, because I guess he doesn't want to be subject, subjugated

00:56:45.480 to Barack Obama.

00:56:46.720 Cause he was apparently genuinely pissed off.

00:56:48.920 And what's so funny about this is he's like, he's worried that Mika Brzezinski's implication

00:56:55.960 on morning Joe is going to hurt his reputation.

00:56:59.000 Somehow, somehow it's like, it's going to hurt his street cred with what the leftists who watch

00:57:04.380 MSNBC, George, I have news for you.

00:57:06.640 We all believe it.

00:57:08.180 She's not alone.

00:57:09.260 We know this is what, what has happened.

00:57:12.160 Why does he care?

00:57:12.900 I mean, do you think that maybe he has some kind of political ambition?

00:57:15.400 I think so many of them do.

00:57:16.820 He thinks, you know, there's this wide open space.

00:57:20.500 There is no leader in the democratic party.

00:57:22.340 It's going to be me.

00:57:23.140 I'm going to, I'm going to roll out there.

00:57:24.700 And yeah, Stephen A.

00:57:25.420 Smith says he's going to do it.

00:57:26.420 Maybe.

00:57:26.960 Yeah.

00:57:27.320 I mean, he says he's not going to do it.

00:57:28.520 Oprah.

00:57:28.820 It's like ever since Trump ran, people think, well, anyone can do it.

00:57:31.760 You know, if Trump can do it, anyone can do it.

00:57:33.320 That they had, they never like, they never recovered from that original assumption about things.

00:57:37.060 And so now they're still trying to get people to go.

00:57:38.820 I mean, it might be better than what they have now.

00:57:40.760 I don't know.

00:57:41.420 On the dem side.

00:57:42.080 Yeah.

00:57:42.220 So here's the follow-up.

00:57:44.820 This Tara Palmieri had on the author, Whipple, and asked him whether Obama did tell Clooney

00:57:54.120 to write the op-ed.

00:57:56.080 And Whipple has a story about Obama's former chief of staff, Bill Daley, and what he confessed

00:58:04.820 to Whipple about whether Obama was really behind the George Clooney op-ed.

00:58:10.820 Right?

00:58:11.100 Do you follow me?

00:58:11.540 So this was Obama's former chief of staff speaking to the author of the book, who was

00:58:16.900 on this podcast.

00:58:18.440 And here is how that went.

00:58:21.240 Did you ever get down to the bottom of whether Obama did, in fact, tell George Clooney to

00:58:27.700 publish that op-ed?

00:58:28.960 I don't think anybody knows for sure.

00:58:32.120 I asked his chief of staff, his second chief of staff, Bill Daley, what he thought.

00:58:38.160 And Daley said, I said, do you think he gave Clooney a green light?

00:58:43.300 And Daley said, I don't think he would have given him a red light.

00:58:46.340 So he wouldn't have stopped it, is basically what he's saying.

00:58:51.260 Obviously, I mean, that's an implicit admission by the guy, Obama's former chief of staff.

00:58:54.860 Okay.

00:58:55.200 So it just shows how thin-skinned this Hollywood A-lister is. 0.95

00:58:59.220 And then this morning show producer who's trying to be like, I told him to F himself.

00:59:03.800 I told him to F off.

00:59:04.980 And then I told him, we'll fix it tomorrow.

00:59:06.160 Please don't be mad at us.

00:59:07.100 Please don't.

00:59:07.500 George Clooney can't be mad at me.

00:59:08.940 Okay.

00:59:09.540 Very chummy relationship, by the way, right?

00:59:11.300 Like, I thought we were friends.

00:59:12.060 Like, I thought I could trust you.

00:59:12.880 Well, you know what?

00:59:13.700 That was your first mistake because you shouldn't trust cable news producers.

00:59:16.760 They're only there to do one thing.

00:59:18.300 Put points on the board.

00:59:19.240 Not befriend Hollywood celebrities.

00:59:21.480 Okay.

00:59:21.660 There's more.

00:59:22.980 In that Whipple book, he details how, like the meltdown around the presidential debate

00:59:30.580 where Joe Biden imploded.

00:59:32.140 And he gets into great detail about how bad it was.

00:59:35.120 He spoke with Biden's former chief of staff who said, we were terrified.

00:59:42.680 I expected a disaster.

00:59:44.420 He couldn't make it through either of the debate preps.

00:59:47.100 He wasn't sure.

00:59:48.460 He didn't seem to be aware of the fact that he was president.

00:59:51.120 He thought he was president of NATO.

00:59:53.660 Yeah.

00:59:54.200 And yet they sent him off on stage.

00:59:56.480 And apparently Joe Biden's sister, Valerie Biden, had a complete meltdown after seeing

01:00:04.720 him on stage that night, blaming everyone around him.

01:00:07.920 Probably not Jill, Dr. Jill, but everyone else.

01:00:10.800 And here's a bit from that in that podcast.

01:00:13.380 Same podcast.

01:00:14.180 Is that 24?

01:00:15.820 30 a.m.

01:00:17.120 That evening, one of Joe Biden's best friends picked up his phone and saw that Valerie was

01:00:23.560 on the line.

01:00:24.800 She was distraught.

01:00:25.480 distraught.

01:00:26.280 She was in tears and she was furious and she could barely contain herself.

01:00:31.500 She said, what did they do to my brother at Camp David was her opening line.

01:00:37.360 And she, again, couldn't go on much more than that.

01:00:41.160 She was so distraught.

01:00:43.280 She clearly was lashing out and blaming people other than Joe Biden, namely his debate team.

01:00:50.620 And she called back the next morning to, again, called Biden's friend.

01:00:54.780 And said, how could they have done this?

01:00:58.620 How could he have arrived just minutes before the debate?

01:01:02.320 How could they not have given him decent makeup?

01:01:06.500 You know, how did he wind up looking like Dorian Gray?

01:01:08.800 And indeed he did.

01:01:11.900 So what do you think?

01:01:13.020 I think it's interesting.

01:01:13.900 All these people are coming out now because there's a couple of books, as I mentioned,

01:01:16.520 trying to do like the deconstruction of what happened with the debate and Biden's presidency,

01:01:20.720 et cetera. 0.95

01:01:21.280 Is this a save your own ass effort or what is this? 0.99

01:01:24.940 I think. 0.96

01:01:26.960 I mean, I think there's this power struggle and no one knows who's going to who's going

01:01:30.680 to be in charge of the Democratic Party.

01:01:32.260 I think the Biden stuff.

01:01:33.400 I mean, as we were going through these details, it's it really was shocking.

01:01:36.840 I mean, I was shocked watching that debate.

01:01:38.700 I had been criticizing.

01:01:40.180 I've been saying, oh, this man has dementia or whatever.

01:01:41.720 But I didn't realize it was like dementia, dementia.

01:01:44.100 Same.

01:01:44.380 Same.

01:01:44.480 I mean, that was way worse than I thought.

01:01:46.260 And then you can't help at that point.

01:01:48.560 But then think about everybody associated with him.

01:01:51.440 And there's a lot of anger.

01:01:52.420 I think that there's probably even more anger on the Democrat side.

01:01:55.540 So I think these people are all positioning themselves to seem sort of like not the bad

01:01:59.440 guy here.

01:01:59.980 They want to come out and be associated with whoever the new fount of power is going to

01:02:04.100 be.

01:02:04.320 But it's not going to be anybody associated with Biden.

01:02:06.340 And I think I think roughly it's that.

01:02:08.200 Yeah, that's that makes sense.

01:02:09.260 There was a young woman who worked in the White House under Biden who was on CNN.

01:02:13.400 She's a no, she was a campaign aide named Ashley Allison. 1.00

01:02:17.060 She went on CNN on Wednesday.

01:02:18.620 Listen to this woman.

01:02:19.540 Saw 25.

01:02:21.620 Ashley, do you feel lied to?

01:02:23.500 Yeah, I do.

01:02:24.960 I think I think it I hadn't been around the president before that debate.

01:02:29.340 And I worked for Joe Biden.

01:02:33.640 And if the people around him knew that he was not capable, it is unacceptable to me that

01:02:40.380 they allowed him to go onto that stage.

01:02:42.160 I deserve better as a voter, not even as a Democrat, as a voter and as an American.

01:02:47.160 I do. 0.99

01:02:49.560 This is ridiculous. 0.95

01:02:51.300 We all knew. 0.96

01:02:52.740 Yeah.

01:02:52.880 I mean, we knew he was in bad shape.

01:02:54.400 I agree with you.

01:02:55.100 We didn't know it was DEFCON one, but we knew it was like two or three.

01:02:58.900 We knew it was bad.

01:02:59.560 And we were calling for a primary before in other.

01:03:01.860 There were some Democrats were like, hey, should we like think about this?

01:03:05.040 Should we maybe run some other people?

01:03:06.800 But I do.

01:03:07.860 You I think that there's like a positioning now to say, you know, I was also misled.

01:03:12.320 I was like the New York Times on covid.

01:03:14.000 We were misled.

01:03:15.180 We who who could have done this.

01:03:17.340 Who is responsible for this?

01:03:18.800 That's just for fingerprints.

01:03:19.860 Yeah.

01:03:20.140 And that's good.

01:03:20.580 They're going to jockey around and figure it out.

01:03:22.160 I mean, isn't the new book.

01:03:22.980 It's Jake.

01:03:23.600 Jake Tapper is one of the guys.

01:03:24.920 Yeah.

01:03:25.020 It's just like it's I'm going to reserve judgment until I read that book comes out.

01:03:28.440 I am excited to see what he has to say about it, but it's a tough pill to swallow.

01:03:32.180 I'll give you a prediction.

01:03:33.300 He's going to say he was all over the mental acuity problem and he'll probably have some

01:03:37.860 examples.

01:03:38.740 I think the other the other guy was the other writer on that.

01:03:41.340 I think.

01:03:41.700 Yeah.

01:03:41.920 Alex Thompson.

01:03:42.700 Alex was I think he has more credibility.

01:03:45.120 He would have been fine.

01:03:45.700 No, nobody would have like that guy's ability to cast this stone is unquestioned because he

01:03:51.060 was pretty tough even on the Kamala thing.

01:03:52.600 It was he was tough all along.

01:03:53.600 He's like a normal reporter should be.

01:03:54.900 Um, Jake's co-partnership on it complicates it.

01:03:59.100 And for as many times as he may have mildly pointed it out, um, they didn't have the story.

01:04:05.760 The left wasn't interested in the story.

01:04:07.160 It's like I asked the New York Times when I sat down with them last week or whatever

01:04:10.480 it aired last week, where was Peter Baker?

01:04:12.900 Why wasn't, you know, where was your intrepid White House reporter figuring out that neurologists

01:04:16.440 had visited the White House more than 10 times in a year?

01:04:18.920 Well, I think at that point they were just pot committed.

01:04:20.760 They were like, this guy's running against Trump.

01:04:22.800 Trump is Hitler in their mind.

01:04:24.520 And so it doesn't matter.

01:04:26.040 We have to run him.

01:04:26.820 And I think that that's really what the story would have been had he not stepped down and

01:04:31.220 he ran.

01:04:31.860 It would have been that way all the way until the election, even after they have a debate.

01:04:35.400 I think the other piece of it is the left is losing its mind over Trump right now.

01:04:39.260 They're so angry at what he's doing.

01:04:42.200 It's like all their pet favorite causes, you know, being attacked one by one.

01:04:46.600 And so it's like, how do we get in this position?

01:04:50.200 Yeah.

01:04:50.540 Who who let the infirm guy get all the way to that June debate? 0.93

01:04:53.680 And they can't blame him.

01:04:55.800 Right.

01:04:56.080 They can't blame him.

01:04:56.640 He has dementia.

01:04:57.240 They should.

01:04:57.600 They should be talking about Dr. Jill.

01:04:59.060 Dr. Jill.

01:05:00.360 She's a medical.

01:05:01.100 Oh, wait.

01:05:01.340 No, she's not.

01:05:02.460 But she she knew better than anybody.

01:05:04.920 And she shoved him weekend at Bernie style out onto that stage. 0.71

01:05:08.140 You think it was her?

01:05:08.700 You think that she's blame her?

01:05:11.020 She's not the only one, but she's the number one person to blame. 0.98

01:05:14.540 It's disgusting.

01:05:15.880 I would never want this done to me by my spouse.

01:05:18.320 And I would never do this to my spouse.

01:05:19.720 Never that you're supposed to be looking out for them in sickness and in health and be

01:05:24.640 able to step away from power, which she couldn't.

01:05:27.420 OK.

01:05:29.440 Where was I going after that?

01:05:30.820 There's so much to get to today.

01:05:32.920 I guess we'll go to.

01:05:36.780 Donald Trump and tariffs, because the Trump agenda, they're very upset about, yes, tariffs

01:05:42.140 and DEI and all of that.

01:05:43.680 This is something we talked about this a little bit before we got to air.

01:05:46.560 I think we both have the same view on it, which is you tell you say what you're you can't

01:05:49.740 make me care about tariffs.

01:05:50.740 You cannot make me mad about them.

01:05:52.680 It's not going to happen.

01:05:54.000 You can scream.

01:05:55.140 You can yell.

01:05:55.960 You're getting it from all sides right now.

01:05:57.500 You're getting this sort of just classically presenting globalists.

01:06:00.240 You're getting Democrats.

01:06:01.080 Obviously, you're getting more libertarian leaning Republicans who wanted sort of anti

01:06:05.200 woke stuff, but not this.

01:06:07.520 And they're all disincentivized to gin up as much hysteria as possible.

01:06:10.700 But it has been 10 years of this now.

01:06:13.640 And and it just started.

01:06:15.480 It's the beginning of Trump's term.

01:06:16.780 He has a lot of there's a lot of reason for him to kick up a bunch of chaos and create

01:06:20.980 a bunch of leverage and begin some kind of negotiations that I don't know really anything

01:06:24.240 about at this point.

01:06:25.000 And and it's OK to just sit down and be like, let's see how it goes.

01:06:29.160 Yeah, like, I think that's fine to just take it day by day.

01:06:31.700 I don't know why we have to go to, you know, DEF CON one.

01:06:34.380 Yeah, as you were saying before, I don't I agree.

01:06:36.280 It's like, let's just take a chill pill while we can still afford them.

01:06:39.700 They're made in China.

01:06:40.520 Calm down.

01:06:41.000 Just sim the myrrh, as Bill Hemmer used to say, sim the myrrh, calm down.

01:06:45.240 They won't.

01:06:46.200 But it is interesting to me because Trump always says I ran on this and he is doing only stuff

01:06:51.080 he ran on.

01:06:51.620 Really, everything he's doing is a promise made, promise kept.

01:06:55.280 Yeah.

01:06:55.680 This one in particular has been a lifelong issue for Trump.

01:06:58.940 This clip has been circulating on social media.

01:07:01.440 I saw it on X a couple of times and it was back when we still liked Oprah in 1988, when

01:07:06.220 she was still somewhat self-deprecating and likable. 1.00

01:07:08.160 Not not her billionaire actress self like what with Meghan Markle, what they wanted to know

01:07:14.440 how dark your baby was going to what we don't like that version. 0.99

01:07:18.460 However, fat, fun Oprah was great.

01:07:23.380 Thin, bitter, too rich to relate to, Oprah is not great.

01:07:27.660 So Oprah had Trump on in 1988 when he was, by my math, 41 years old.

01:07:34.300 Wow.

01:07:34.940 And listen to this exchange.

01:07:37.880 What would you do differently, Donald?

01:07:39.740 I'd make our allies, forgetting about the enemies, the enemies you can't talk to so easily.

01:07:43.780 I'd make our allies pay their fair share.

01:07:46.140 We're a debtor nation.

01:07:47.020 Something's going to happen over the next number of years with this country because you

01:07:50.140 can't keep going on losing $200 billion and yet we let Japan come in and dump everything 1.00

01:07:54.900 right into our markets and everything.

01:07:56.560 It's not free trade.

01:07:57.880 If you ever go to Japan right now and try to sell something, forget about it, Oprah.

01:08:01.300 Just forget about it.

01:08:02.180 It's almost impossible.

01:08:03.340 They don't have laws against it.

01:08:04.440 They just make it impossible.

01:08:05.940 They come over here.

01:08:06.760 They sell their cars, their VCRs.

01:08:08.540 They knock the hell out of our companies.

01:08:10.320 And hey, I have tremendous respect for the Japanese people.

01:08:12.980 I mean, you can respect somebody that's beating the hell out of you, but they are beating

01:08:16.180 the hell out of this country.

01:08:17.820 Kuwait, they live like kings.

01:08:19.120 The poorest person in Kuwait, they live like kings. 1.00

01:08:21.640 And yet they're not paying.

01:08:22.700 We make it possible for them to sell their oil.

01:08:25.160 Why aren't they paying us 25% of what they're making?

01:08:27.840 It's a joke.

01:08:28.720 This sounds like political presidential talk to me.

01:08:31.980 And I know people have talked to you about whether or not you want to run.

01:08:34.140 Would you ever?

01:08:35.960 Probably not.

01:08:37.140 But I do get tired of seeing the country ripped off.

01:08:39.600 Why would you not?

01:08:40.560 I just don't think I really have the inclination to do it.

01:08:43.700 I love what I'm doing.

01:08:44.560 I really like it.

01:08:45.620 Also, it doesn't pay as well.

01:08:47.160 No, it doesn't.

01:08:48.760 But, you know, I just probably wouldn't do it, Oprah.

01:08:51.540 I probably wouldn't.

01:08:52.440 But I do get tired of seeing what's happening with this country.

01:08:54.880 And if it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally because I really am

01:08:58.700 tired of seeing what's happening with this country, how we're really making other

01:09:03.220 people live like kings and we're not.

01:09:04.840 People are tired of seeing the United States ripped off.

01:09:07.180 And I can't promise you everything, but I can tell you one thing.

01:09:09.800 This country would make one hell of a lot of money from those people that for 25 years

01:09:13.820 have taken advantage.

01:09:14.680 It wouldn't be the way it's been.

01:09:17.120 And you know what's interesting about that clip, among other things?

01:09:20.040 That was 1988 before we decided to really open the floodgates to trade with China.

01:09:25.220 And then, of course, by the time he ran in 15, all he was talking about was China.

01:09:29.220 Yeah.

01:09:29.680 Well, he was right.

01:09:30.320 That was one of the in Silicon Valley around in 2015, 2016.

01:09:34.220 That was the one thing at that time that you were allowed to talk about because you remember

01:09:37.840 like Peter was run out of town.

01:09:38.940 You could not talk about Trump at that time, but you could talk about China.

01:09:41.620 Everybody was already keyed into China.

01:09:43.120 And that was one where it was this thing that you would hear.

01:09:46.500 You know, I don't agree with them on everything.

01:09:48.100 But China, which is very interesting.

01:09:50.020 That's true.

01:09:50.700 That was it was like he was super, super early to it.

01:09:52.880 And I was just thinking while we were watching that clip.

01:09:54.740 You're right.

01:09:55.240 That was just before the China stuff happened.

01:09:58.060 China just retaliated or they said they were going to retaliate.

01:10:00.500 Yeah, they said.

01:10:00.960 But as of coming to air, they hadn't announced what exactly they're doing.

01:10:04.560 So I saw a bunch of things.

01:10:06.680 But the one that stood out the most was they're going after rare earth metals or they're saying

01:10:09.680 they're going to.

01:10:10.540 What's interesting about that is that is a strategy they've been on for for decades.

01:10:15.240 OK, so they're subsidizing their mining facilities and more importantly, their processing

01:10:20.240 facilities.

01:10:20.740 While we have been regulating our processing facilities, our EPA makes it almost impossible

01:10:25.420 to process things over here.

01:10:26.520 People think that rare earth metals means they're like super rare.

01:10:30.060 They're all over.

01:10:30.760 We have them in Texas, in California, in Alaska.

01:10:32.740 We just found a huge store of them in Maine.

01:10:34.800 We can't process them.

01:10:36.060 And this trade stuff actually like if all ignore all the other tariffs, this one thing

01:10:41.100 with China, it really does matter because now it's being used as a weapon against us because 0.72

01:10:46.760 we allowed them to subsidize their industries and because we didn't tariff in response.

01:10:50.980 Because we regulated our own out, they can now hurt us in this way.

01:10:54.700 So, yeah, I think on this stuff, he's correct.

01:10:57.500 Yeah.

01:10:57.720 Just getting this in.

01:10:58.540 China has responded.

01:10:59.600 China's finance ministry said it will match his plan for 34 percent tariffs on goods from

01:11:04.640 China with its own 34 percent tariff on imports from the United States.

01:11:08.140 I mean, literally, like we almost send them nothing.

01:11:10.040 That's like, OK, but Trump's not wrong.

01:11:12.540 We import from China so much more than they import from us. 0.99

01:11:15.200 They're like, screw you. 0.86

01:11:16.040 We don't want to depend on you at all. 0.99

01:11:17.500 Here's the second thing.

01:11:18.940 Separately, China's Ministry of Commerce said it was adding 11 American companies to

01:11:22.440 its list of unreliable entities, essentially barring them from doing business in China or

01:11:27.080 with Chinese companies.

01:11:28.460 I mean, isn't this good?

01:11:29.340 I anchored a presidential debate at which we were pressing every single candidate up

01:11:33.240 there about whether their companies had done business with China, why they did business

01:11:37.520 with China.

01:11:38.020 Because if you do business with a Chinese company, you're doing business with a CCP. 0.90

01:11:41.340 Xi Jinping.

01:11:41.980 Yes, you have to.

01:11:42.940 That's how it works.

01:11:43.720 That's why when we talk about TikTok and we're like, this is a Chinese company, you're

01:11:48.260 run by the CCP.

01:11:49.540 That's how it works when you are doing business in a communist country.

01:11:53.760 And it just you know what?

01:11:54.400 It reminds me like there can all the other tariffs aside again.

01:11:57.240 And I think you almost do have to decouple them because we're just in the beginning of

01:11:59.860 the negotiations there.

01:12:00.840 But on China for them to be like, you know, we're retaliating in this unprecedented 0.52

01:12:04.880 active trade war.

01:12:06.080 Do you know how many tech companies are banned in China?

01:12:08.360 It's like Google, YouTube, Wikipedia, Twitter, Facebook, like the whole industry, not just

01:12:14.320 tariffed.

01:12:14.980 It's an embargo.

01:12:16.200 They have been waging trade war against the United States, either obviously or in the case

01:12:21.260 of like the rare earth metal strategy, sort of quietly for decades while we've thought

01:12:25.380 like, oh, we're just playing along.

01:12:27.300 And now one person says this is unfair and they're like grasping their pearls.

01:12:33.080 It's like like when an Islamist blows something up and then everyone says, hey, like it seems 1.00

01:12:37.180 like there's a problem with Islamism.

01:12:38.360 And they're like, that's that's you know, that's violent rhetoric.

01:12:41.140 It's like, well, what about the violence?

01:12:42.700 Then that's kind of how I feel with the China trade stuff.

01:12:45.080 It's just ridiculous that I have to sit here and and take it seriously.

01:12:48.800 I'm excited to see what Trump can do.

01:12:50.680 And I understand people are in they're feeling uncertain because they rely on their 401ks.

01:12:57.680 You have retirees who have are on a fixed income.

01:13:00.180 I get all of that, but I think we just have to hold just hold the line, hold the line.

01:13:05.540 That's what Trump is asking.

01:13:06.720 I believe that he will do something to watch out for the most most vulnerable.

01:13:10.920 Like last time he did that when certain farmers got hit on his trade and his tariffs in Trump

01:13:16.960 1.0, I mean, now his government quote handouts.

01:13:20.380 But if he's going to take away, he's going to have to be in a position to replenish just

01:13:23.980 to get us through the hard period if it gets that bad.

01:13:26.340 Not into government handouts, but my point is like, if we're going to actively hurt our

01:13:29.960 own farmers, they may need help just to get them through the bridge, whatever.

01:13:33.500 We'll see where it goes.

01:13:34.700 But I believe he's not just going to let Americans suffer.

01:13:37.500 The whole point of doing this is to make America Americans prosper.

01:13:41.860 Right.

01:13:42.200 It's to reshore manufacturing is what he says.

01:13:44.880 I think there's like, are we doing trade deals or reshoring American manufacturing?

01:13:49.480 I don't know.

01:13:50.040 They're not antithetical, but like, I don't know.

01:13:51.940 They're the same strategy.

01:13:53.880 I'm willing to just sort of wait, though.

01:13:56.220 And then on the on the you just mentioned something, you know, you're not into government

01:14:00.520 handouts.

01:14:00.900 I agree.

01:14:01.760 But this is the complicated piece of the puzzle is that China really is.

01:14:06.120 And so if you're competing on a global stage, you know, and you have China massively subsidizing

01:14:10.560 industry and blocking American industry from competing, what do you do?

01:14:14.080 Like, it's not a fair it's not like, oh, be a capitalist.

01:14:16.400 Europe is doing the same your massive, massive fines on American companies like that's not

01:14:22.140 a capitalist system.

01:14:23.420 So what is the the correct way to navigate if your competitor is massively subsidized

01:14:30.000 by one of the wealthiest countries in the world?

01:14:31.740 And it's like, I think that I don't think the protectionism stuff is so crazy when that's

01:14:39.420 the when that's the terrain.

01:14:40.520 It's just like I think it's a different set of rules.

01:14:42.300 Well, we have a big, beautiful body of people from whom to buy and sell goods right here

01:14:47.200 in the United States.

01:14:47.920 So, I mean, that's one of his goals.

01:14:49.500 He's not cutting off all trade.

01:14:50.600 He doesn't want to cut off all trade with all foreign countries, but he's playing some

01:14:54.340 hardball.

01:14:54.800 And I heard an assessment on this morning's The Daily from their European correspondent

01:14:58.720 suggesting, look, it may actually end with Europe before it even begins.

01:15:02.360 They'll come to Trump.

01:15:03.460 They'll strike a deal. 0.98

01:15:04.540 The Europeans are feckless and have no power and no backbone. 1.00

01:15:08.440 I'm sorry, but it's true. 0.93

01:15:09.560 So it's a lovely place to visit, but I think they will come hat in hand and try to work

01:15:14.900 something out with him.

01:15:15.900 And Mexico and Canada didn't get this particular round of sanctions or tariffs.

01:15:21.000 They got an earlier round and actually are already changing their behavior.

01:15:24.980 So it's Asia. 0.97

01:15:26.380 You know, it's Asia, really, that we have to watch. 0.99

01:15:28.360 And not even all of it.

01:15:28.980 I saw Vietnam also made a bunch of they've they changed a bunch of their tariffs around.

01:15:33.560 I don't know.

01:15:34.120 Anticipating.

01:15:34.340 Yeah, like who knows what they were making a point about Vietnam and these other places,

01:15:37.460 which is when Trump dropped the tariffs on China first time around, China outsourced

01:15:43.000 its its manufacturing plants to countries like Vietnam.

01:15:47.060 They do that in Mexico, too, so that they wouldn't be hit by the tariffs we put on China.

01:15:50.560 So they've been doing an end around Trump.

01:15:52.320 And that's why he did a sweeping like now it doesn't matter if you moved it to Vietnam.

01:15:55.720 We're getting them, too.

01:15:56.620 Yeah, I think it's really bad in Mexico because we have especially great trade deals with Mexico.

01:16:00.560 And so that, yeah, it's like that.

01:16:02.880 I think, listen, I don't I don't know.

01:16:05.980 Again, you can't make me care about tariffs.

01:16:07.660 I'm going to just like chill out and see how it goes.

01:16:09.480 I'm caring mildly based on this conversation.

01:16:10.700 But like, that's it mildly.

01:16:12.120 But like, we'll see.

01:16:14.140 That's right.

01:16:14.400 It's fine to say we'll see.

01:16:15.420 So speaking of the Trump agenda that the left is melting down over tariffs, yes,

01:16:19.060 DEI, gender, you know, you name it. 0.89

01:16:21.180 We could spend all day.

01:16:23.660 Coincidentally, reemerges Kamala Harris, who decided to pop up this week at the Leading 0.99

01:16:31.500 Women Defined Summit.

01:16:33.740 What a terrible name for a summit.

01:16:35.140 The Leading Women Defined Summit in California and had this to say, SOT26.

01:16:41.740 Each day in these last few months in our country.

01:16:44.820 And it understandably creates a great sense of fear.

01:16:52.400 So she's.

01:16:53.740 Because, you know, there were many things that we knew would happen.

01:16:58.840 We knew.

01:16:59.740 Many things.

01:17:00.380 I'm not here to say I told you so. 1.00

01:17:07.620 Kamala Harris, dumb as ever. 1.00

01:17:09.900 I mean, or she looks drunk to me. 1.00

01:17:12.100 She always looks drunk.

01:17:13.060 Like, I mean, I don't want to throw around any crazy charges here, but that's not coherent.

01:17:17.620 Doesn't she always?

01:17:18.940 But why?

01:17:19.580 The thing is so irritating about her is like the way she talks. 0.65

01:17:23.740 Like she's really sharing something important.

01:17:27.220 I think it's just the wrong context.

01:17:29.100 If she just could have a Bravo reality television show or, you know, she talks about wanting

01:17:34.880 a restaurant in Napa Valley and she had this whole.

01:17:37.400 That sounds great.

01:17:38.420 I'm here for it.

01:17:39.020 Do that.

01:17:39.460 I would go.

01:17:40.180 I think she'd be really good at it.

01:17:41.500 I think she's just not good at this.

01:17:43.220 I think this is not the thing for her.

01:17:45.300 I don't know who told her to do this.

01:17:47.240 I feel like there's a person inside of her just who is really fun.

01:17:50.820 And like I would get drunk with who's dying to get out.

01:17:54.160 And I'm just like, let this woman live her life. 1.00

01:17:56.220 Like, why do you she's going to run for governor now? 1.00

01:17:58.280 Like, why are you making her do that? 1.00

01:17:59.580 Well, she hasn't until what June to decide if she's going to throw a hat into that ring 1.00

01:18:03.980 or keep her hat out of that ring and potentially just go for the presidential contest next time 1.00

01:18:08.900 around.

01:18:09.160 It will be fun to watch.

01:18:10.360 Here's one more from her again.

01:18:11.920 Always trying to sound like she's got all the answers.

01:18:14.480 Here she is in SOT 27.

01:18:15.460 Fear has a way of being contagious.

01:18:21.740 When one person has fear, it has a way of spreading to those around them and spreading.

01:18:34.780 And we are witnessing that, no doubt.

01:18:36.940 But I say this also, my dear friends, courage is also contagious.

01:18:45.040 Courage is also contagious.

01:18:47.480 What is happening is wrong.

01:18:50.920 The courage to say that there is a way that we must chart to get through this.

01:19:00.440 Understanding our power in the democracy we still have,

01:19:06.000 if we hold on to it.

01:19:07.680 Oh, my God.

01:19:10.020 Courage is contagious.

01:19:12.840 Nothing's being said.

01:19:15.820 Okay.

01:19:16.600 She said, what's wrong?

01:19:19.560 We have to be able to say what's wrong or that this is not right or whatever it is.

01:19:23.080 It's like super vague thing.

01:19:24.640 You're right.

01:19:24.920 Nothing's being said.

01:19:25.800 It reminded me of Cory Booker.

01:19:27.480 Yeah.

01:19:27.740 His 25 hour, the sort of last stand in Washington,

01:19:30.500 where all of the coverage is super glowing.

01:19:33.140 It's like, finally, someone is fighting.

01:19:34.700 Someone is standing up against the thing.

01:19:37.000 And there are no particulars about what you're actually fighting for.

01:19:40.100 No, no idea.

01:19:40.620 What are you talking about?

01:19:41.420 No idea.

01:19:41.940 You're not saying anything.

01:19:43.300 Why did you stand there, sir?

01:19:44.460 Why?

01:19:44.840 And that's, I mean, Kamala, why am I, I'm like, I'm like defending Kamala right now.

01:19:48.260 I'm like, because I do think I'm like, I'm really rooting for her.

01:19:50.440 But, but, and she's not in Congress or whatever.

01:19:53.140 But, but Cory reminds me of her and they're doing the same thing, which is,

01:19:57.040 I don't think they believe in anything.

01:19:58.620 And I don't think they know what they're supposed to say.

01:20:01.400 They just have to sort of peacock strength or something.

01:20:04.720 And, and it's, it's honestly dangerous because what's going to happen is someone like AOC is

01:20:09.760 going to, is going to gain a lot more popularity because she's, I know what she believes in. 0.95

01:20:13.300 It's communism.

01:20:14.240 Yeah.

01:20:14.440 And she says it very plainly and openly.

01:20:16.340 Um, and that's very popular for like the Luigi Mangione left.

01:20:20.060 Yeah.

01:20:20.360 Oh my God.

01:20:20.760 Exactly.

01:20:21.140 Right.

01:20:21.440 Well, I, I don't think she's trying to project strength.

01:20:23.860 I think she's trying to project inspo.

01:20:26.020 I really think she wants to be 1988 Oprah and she thinks she's got the nuggets and that when

01:20:32.020 she delivers them, we're all really going to swoon.

01:20:35.020 And indeed the, the crowds in front of her try to write out of politeness or just because

01:20:40.500 they've been told by the Democrats, they need to love her.

01:20:42.700 But no one who's watching this on TV feels moved.

01:20:45.660 She's not an inspirational figure. 0.72

01:20:47.720 She very soon will fade away. 0.98

01:20:49.700 I mean, maybe she'll run for governor of California and win because they're lunatics out there, 1.00

01:20:53.920 but there's no way she's going to be president. 0.93

01:20:55.960 Yeah.

01:20:56.100 She couldn't lose as a Democrat, which is why it's interesting.

01:20:58.380 If they're willing to give it to her in California and she runs as a Democrat, she, I think it's

01:21:02.720 very likely that she'll be, she'll be the governor. 0.99

01:21:04.500 What about the fact that New York city is about to elect Andrew Cuomo as its mayor?

01:21:08.300 So it seems less crazy to me than Kamala as governor.

01:21:11.700 Um, but I acknowledge that it's also crazy.

01:21:14.480 I don't like, I get it because there's, there's a paucity of options for New York city mayor

01:21:20.740 who are running.

01:21:21.380 There's no, there's like, there haven't been a ton who've thrown their hat into the ring

01:21:24.400 and mayor Adams, while he just lost the indictment against him, thanks to Trump, by the way,

01:21:29.420 with prejudice, the judge insisted that it be dismissed with prejudice.

01:21:32.260 Um, he decided to switch parties and rise as an independent, but he, they're not going to reelect

01:21:37.220 him.

01:21:37.520 You know, the, the cozying up that was necessary for him to do with Trump to get the charges

01:21:40.920 dropped is why he can't get reelected as mayor.

01:21:44.380 I think they would reelect a crook, but they're not going to reelect somebody who's cozy with 0.92

01:21:47.660 Trump. 0.95

01:21:48.180 Right.

01:21:48.680 And so Andrew Cuomo now is 38%, which is what you need. 0.99

01:21:51.960 I mean, that's all you need is this divided field to get the damn nomination. 0.97

01:21:55.060 And then, you know, I don't remember like the last time we had a Republican, truly Republican 0.99

01:21:58.520 mayor, it was, I think Bloomberg had already declared himself an independent when he ran

01:22:02.400 and ran.

01:22:02.740 So it was Giuliani with nine 11, 25 years ago.

01:22:06.620 So I just, I can't get over the fact that the city is thinking about returning the guy

01:22:12.100 who did what he did to them on COVID.

01:22:14.960 He's, he did it.

01:22:16.460 It was his policies.

01:22:18.700 He doesn't apologize for them.

01:22:20.240 He's not sorry.

01:22:21.020 He's the one who ordered COVID positive patients into all the nursing homes so that the most

01:22:27.520 vulnerable and elderly amongst us were almost certain to die.

01:22:31.480 And some 15,000 of them did between nine and 15,000, depending on the count.

01:22:36.020 And they're, they're on track to reelect this maniac.

01:22:40.000 Yeah.

01:22:40.260 I think we've just memory holds COVID.

01:22:41.980 I think it's just, it's just a classic trauma response.

01:22:45.140 The whole country wants to forget it.

01:22:46.520 There's no reckoning.

01:22:47.620 You know, it's like this never comes up.

01:22:49.640 Um, did you get vaccinated?

01:22:51.660 I did get vaccinated.

01:22:52.740 Me too.

01:22:53.260 Yeah.

01:22:53.460 Does it bum you out when you see all these videos with people being like, you're going

01:22:56.440 to die soon from the vaccination?

01:22:58.380 Yeah.

01:22:59.160 I don't know what I think about anything anymore, which is the problem of COVID.

01:23:02.060 That's the great, that's the actual legacy of COVID.

01:23:04.380 We don't talk about it, but we all have evolved it because of it.

01:23:07.020 And I don't trust anyone now.

01:23:08.920 Um, yeah, to the point where I, I actually don't know that getting the vaccine was, I don't

01:23:13.440 know how I feel about that.

01:23:14.300 Oh no, I wish I didn't do it.

01:23:15.420 And that, that's a, that's why I'm even reluctant to say it.

01:23:18.840 It's just, um, but it didn't make me, it didn't make me anti-antivaccine.

01:23:22.320 I got, I told the audience, I got the shingles vaccine.

01:23:24.540 Then I'm very pro that because shingles seems like a hideous condition and you just get two

01:23:29.080 shots, six months apart and then you don't get shingles.

01:23:30.940 And I had the chicken pox when I was little.

01:23:32.580 So you can get painful shingles.

01:23:34.280 No, it's just new things.

01:23:35.520 I don't want to experiment with new things.

01:23:37.760 I would like other people who want to experiment can experiment and I'll learn from that and then

01:23:41.960 I'll decide.

01:23:42.540 But this was a massive experiment that we gave to the entire, I don't want to really speak

01:23:45.600 on this because I'm not a, I don't know.

01:23:47.180 I'm not even a base biologist.

01:23:48.640 I'm not a biologist at all.

01:23:49.700 I'm going to leave that to them.

01:23:50.720 I just know that I don't trust the people who told me I had to do it.

01:23:53.700 Yeah.

01:23:54.340 And, um, and I have questions, but I, I think that's why someone like Cuomo can, can get

01:24:00.040 up there and have a chance because people just don't want to face what happened during COVID

01:24:03.260 because it was too crazy.

01:24:04.340 I mean, a playground in New York city, locking up playgrounds, kids inside for what a year.

01:24:08.960 Um, maybe it wasn't as bad in New York as San Francisco.

01:24:11.380 I don't remember.

01:24:11.980 No, it was, it was just as bad.

01:24:13.940 It was insane.

01:24:15.440 I think it was just, it was just too big.

01:24:17.280 And then to face it is to face what, how you behave during COVID.

01:24:20.400 How many of those people who were voting for him were crazy COVID people who were yelling 0.77

01:24:24.640 at people in the street who didn't have their mask on.

01:24:26.720 I mean, that would happen to me. 0.92

01:24:27.680 And so I got yelled at in New York by some lunatic with a mask that read vote. 0.93

01:24:32.160 Yeah. 0.95

01:24:32.480 I wonder who they were voting for.

01:24:33.660 Yeah.

01:24:33.840 I mean, outside, outside for not wearing a mask.

01:24:35.840 Yeah.

01:24:35.920 I was outside to get it together.

01:24:37.200 But there was a mandate that you were supposed to wear a mask even outside if you weren't

01:24:42.020 able to socially distance.

01:24:43.080 I can't remember the particulars of it, but it was absurd.

01:24:45.280 Yeah.

01:24:45.400 I think you're right.

01:24:45.960 We've memory hold COVID.

01:24:47.460 Although I will say some good news on that front this week.

01:24:51.920 Fauci's wife just got fired from the NIH by the Bobby Kennedy crew.

01:24:56.320 So yay.

01:24:57.960 Good.

01:24:58.460 Goodbye.

01:24:58.980 She was making almost 300,000 bucks.

01:25:01.080 Do you think that there's a chance?

01:25:02.600 I know that Fauci got pardoned, but now that we're, we have all these books coming up about

01:25:06.340 Biden's dementia, the cognitive decline.

01:25:09.400 There's the question, and it seems increasingly legitimate, legitimate, Trump kicked it in

01:25:13.460 into the public sphere that maybe, you know, he wasn't signing these pardons.

01:25:19.600 How real do you think that is?

01:25:21.220 The fact that like Trump is going to try to undo the pardons?

01:25:23.780 Could he undo it?

01:25:24.320 And could Fauci?

01:25:25.380 I don't think so.

01:25:26.020 There's no requirement that a pardon even be in writing.

01:25:28.660 And Biden's on the air on camera defending them.

01:25:32.000 Okay.

01:25:32.620 So I don't think there's much there, even though I wish there were, because I do think

01:25:35.900 Anthony, my opinion is Anthony Fauci started the COVID pandemic.

01:25:40.100 He funded that gain of function research in the Wuhan lab.

01:25:43.000 We know that they were studying back coronaviruses to try to make them more dangerous.

01:25:47.820 What are the odds that that research we funded had absolutely nothing to do with the actual

01:25:52.500 virus?

01:25:53.000 There's been no proof of it, but we haven't looked.

01:25:55.000 I'm well beyond that at this point.

01:25:56.260 I think that it was, I mean, I'm, I don't want to say it was done on purpose by China,

01:25:59.800 but like Trump was very popular at the end of his term before COVID happened.

01:26:05.400 Very, very popular.

01:26:06.500 The stock market was ripping.

01:26:07.960 People would not even really, there was no more anti-Trump, like derangement, anima.

01:26:12.140 At that point, it was just kind of people had resigned themselves to it.

01:26:14.920 He was going to win.

01:26:15.980 And then there was a pandemic and he lost.

01:26:18.520 And who was being hurt the most by his trade policies?

01:26:21.400 China was being hurt the most by his trade policies.

01:26:23.800 I don't.

01:26:24.640 Yeah.

01:26:24.960 I mean, I'm just asking.

01:26:25.980 No, that's why people call it a pandemic.

01:26:27.520 But I mean, come on, like it just is a little bit too.

01:26:30.760 What, who would say it's beyond the Chinese?

01:26:32.980 Who would say that?

01:26:33.540 It's definitely not.

01:26:34.560 It's definitely not.

01:26:35.300 It would be smart.

01:26:36.460 It would be in within, there's a great book, uh, the hundred year marathon that talks about

01:26:41.160 the Chinese strategy against America.

01:26:43.400 And then actually, you know, we've been under this kind of secret war with China forever

01:26:46.660 and we just didn't realize it because Westerners think of war in a different way.

01:26:50.040 They're super charismatic.

01:26:50.760 And it's like that John Snow, you know, with a sword facing people.

01:26:54.500 It's like, that's how we think about war and courage and greatness.

01:26:57.520 Um, and the Chinese prize, um, intelligence and strategy and having to being able to defeat 1.00

01:27:03.980 an army without ever firing a bullet.

01:27:05.540 Like these are the stories that you hear about, um, in China.

01:27:08.720 And this is well within that is it's a very smart strategy rather than brute force.

01:27:14.160 Oh my God.

01:27:14.960 And, and careless in terms of, you know, absence of heart or empathy, even for their own people.

01:27:21.480 Yeah.

01:27:21.960 Yeah.

01:27:22.260 I mean, that's also communism.

01:27:23.540 What a shock.

01:27:24.100 Exactly.

01:27:24.500 Right.

01:27:24.700 Um, okay.

01:27:26.040 Speaking of heartless Kara Swisher, we have an update on Kara Swisher, who we both had

01:27:32.180 thoughts about love.

01:27:33.580 Um, one of my muses.

01:27:34.600 Yeah.

01:27:34.820 So she came to middling fame as a tech journalist.

01:27:39.720 I mean, let's be honest.

01:27:40.480 Most people have no idea who she is, um, as a tech journalist. 0.79

01:27:43.820 And I told the audience earlier this week, this story, I know you've seen it about how

01:27:48.720 she and I were friendly, not necessarily friends, but friendly.

01:27:51.780 And then she just did something so despicable around the death of my sister while we were 0.87

01:27:57.260 still friendly.

01:27:57.880 Like it wasn't like there'd been any frost between us. 1.00

01:28:01.420 She was such an incredible asshole that I completely changed my opinion of her. 1.00

01:28:06.080 And I told that story for the first time because she had once again, been attacking me and, 1.00

01:28:11.780 um, she responded to it on threads by saying, um, I guess MK discovered I'm an open lesbian.

01:28:21.100 That was her takeaway.

01:28:22.600 What?

01:28:23.200 Of course I knew she was an open lesbian from the moment I met her, by the way, Kara, you're 1.00

01:28:27.820 not hiding it.

01:28:28.780 Um, no, it was very clear.

01:28:30.320 I didn't care.

01:28:30.820 Like what?

01:28:31.160 I don't know what that was her takeaway. 0.71

01:28:32.500 She's, she discovered I'm an open lesbian and then she went on with the even more despicable 0.94

01:28:38.140 Don Lemon.

01:28:39.100 She's one of the people apparently who watches those four viewers, his YouTube show and,

01:28:44.040 uh, had another comment because he asked her about it and here it is.

01:28:48.220 I think I am uncomfortable about the whole thing because I think, you know, I'm like,

01:28:52.560 ugh, do we, should we be jocular?

01:28:53.820 Oh, we're starting on the white house correspondence dinner.

01:28:55.780 When things are this serious, that's one to, you know, if I run into some people, I feel

01:29:01.420 like there's going to be a beef and then it'll be, you know what I mean?

01:29:05.380 Like you could be at my back, the two of us and like, uh, like, you know, Megan Kelly

01:29:09.920 recently insulted me as she does to you quite often, by the way.

01:29:13.300 So you're used to it.

01:29:14.260 But I insulted her right back now. 1.00

01:29:16.060 I know, but I don't even speak to her.

01:29:17.840 Cause I think she's, I think she's flirting with me.

01:29:19.820 That's what I think is happening here.

01:29:21.340 But, um, but that's what my wife said.

01:29:23.420 Stop flirting with my wife. 0.96

01:29:24.340 Cause the thing she said, we're like, she takes the balls of tech people. 1.00

01:29:28.000 She goes for the jugular. 1.00

01:29:29.060 I'm like, Oh, tell me more.

01:29:32.260 Okay.

01:29:33.220 So see, she's suggesting that I have some sort of, uh, romantic affinity for her.

01:29:38.360 Kara, I'm sorry to break your heart.

01:29:39.880 It's a no, it's a hard no.

01:29:41.820 And if I ever were to embark on a crossover tour on my sexuality, which I haven't in 54

01:29:47.140 years, it would clearly not be you.

01:29:49.480 It would be like a Jillian Michaels type, you know, like the lipstick lesbian, not you who 1.00

01:29:54.560 looks more like a man, which is yes, I guess what I'm into men, but actual men with penises, 1.00

01:30:00.560 like my husband, this is a sick person. 1.00

01:30:03.220 So just to set the stage again, what an incredible fucker. 1.00

01:30:07.200 We were friendly. 1.00

01:30:08.360 I liked her.

01:30:09.260 I did was nothing but nice to her. 0.99

01:30:10.800 She fucking used the death of my sister as this excuse to like, she crapped on Abby when she said 1.00

01:30:16.480 she can't make your podcast because something personal happened. 1.00

01:30:19.060 She decided to say, Oh, she's afraid of me.

01:30:21.380 And when Abby had to reveal it was because I'd had a death in the family, she didn't say,

01:30:25.280 she didn't reach out to me and say, I'm so sorry.

01:30:28.460 She just said, Oh, well, I was only joking about her not wanting to be here.

01:30:32.080 Sorry.

01:30:32.840 That, and her response to my telling the story is, Oh, she finally found out I'm a lesbian

01:30:37.260 and she's attracted to me.

01:30:38.420 There's something wrong with this person. 0.98

01:30:39.980 Well, she's a narcissist. 1.00

01:30:41.680 I mean, that's what she's known for in tech is her deranged narcissism. 1.00

01:30:46.020 Like the way that she was talking publicly about your podcast or about your, the network that

01:30:49.980 you're doing was, um, you know, I told Megan about podcasts and it was very sort of like,

01:30:55.040 I knew nothing about podcasts.

01:30:56.080 I mean, she's not the first, this is not the first time she's done this.

01:30:58.160 I mean, she has this, this, uh, there's this almost position she takes where like she invented 1.00

01:31:02.680 podcasts and it's, it's bizarre.

01:31:05.560 I think that she covered business for so long.

01:31:07.780 I think she really wanted to be one of the business guys and she never was in our media

01:31:11.540 company failed.

01:31:12.260 This is what she had the red chair that she was in.

01:31:14.000 That was from the recode days.

01:31:15.640 Um, you know, she really wants to cling to this idea that it was this really important

01:31:19.560 thing and maybe it was briefly, but I see her now as, um, she's just another talking head

01:31:24.560 and how she viewed in the tech is industry with an eye roll. 0.97

01:31:28.880 And like, she's sort of a buffoon. 0.87

01:31:30.580 Should I tell you my Kara Swisher? 0.97

01:31:31.920 Yeah.

01:31:32.300 I first met Kara.

01:31:33.460 So I met Kara at Peter Thiel's book party.

01:31:35.700 So I was, uh, still am, but was working for Peter at the time.

01:31:38.220 It was, it was over 10 years ago now.

01:31:40.380 Um, and I'm introduced to her from a mutual friend.

01:31:45.720 She's super short. 1.00

01:31:46.660 That's the first thing I know is like, she's very small and she has, we're inside.

01:31:49.380 She has sunglasses on and, um, and we talk for whatever about whatever for, for a moment

01:31:54.900 or two.

01:31:56.000 Um, she looks at me, she's like, you're really smart.

01:31:59.000 And this was, this was great.

01:32:00.040 You're one of the good ones.

01:32:00.960 Um, we should get coffee.

01:32:02.240 And I was like, Oh, okay, cool.

01:32:03.420 Yeah, sure.

01:32:03.980 I'm like young, bright eyed, bushy tailed.

01:32:06.240 Like she is someone who's writing about tech.

01:32:07.780 I'm like, that's interesting.

01:32:08.840 Sure.

01:32:09.200 Kara.

01:32:09.500 Um, do you want my email?

01:32:11.700 And she's like, I'll find you.

01:32:14.360 And then she walked out. 1.00

01:32:16.080 Then that was the last I ever heard of her until, um, years later I was writing and, uh,

01:32:20.140 she attacked me online, but said, but he was, he's a good writer though.

01:32:23.840 Um, and I loved that.

01:32:25.220 I felt good about that.

01:32:26.100 She probably won't even remember that, but I will.

01:32:27.820 Cause I'm a fan.

01:32:28.500 I mean, uh, she's a very small person.

01:32:31.180 Honestly, like there's something wrong with her because you don't, you don't behave like

01:32:33.980 that.

01:32:34.240 Like, but don't you need a villain?

01:32:35.780 Like she, she, she, she gives us so many.

01:32:38.040 Yeah.

01:32:38.480 But she's like, she's like a fun one.

01:32:40.240 I mean, she's just easy to beat back against. 1.00

01:32:43.360 I mean, she's always saying the dumbest things ever. 0.99

01:32:45.520 Yeah. 0.99

01:32:45.880 Um, I find her, I enjoy it.

01:32:48.320 Yeah.

01:32:48.560 And I, well, listen, I don't think a lot about Kara Swisher, but she comes for me.

01:32:53.620 And how about Don Lemon?

01:32:54.900 Like, and I attacked her back.

01:32:56.960 Okay.

01:32:57.320 Guy, I know your 10 little lemon heads really enjoyed it.

01:33:01.280 Like jealous.

01:33:02.020 You're killing it.

01:33:02.720 And they know that. 1.00

01:33:03.620 Yeah.

01:33:03.840 And it's undeserved.

01:33:05.720 And you know, you have the wrong politics.

01:33:07.880 Um, they're all struggling in the media stuff.

01:33:10.000 It's kind of interesting you, and I think anyone who's, who's, who's sort of not on the

01:33:16.060 sort of consensus liberal side of things, it came up in a very difficult environment.

01:33:20.840 It was hard to, first of all, put out an opinion.

01:33:23.560 You were always being attacked.

01:33:24.600 So it was like training under 10 X gravity or something when you were giving your opinions

01:33:28.360 and then to have any kind of media, anything you had to build it from scratch.

01:33:32.320 And, um, they're used to the machine, just sort of feeding them.

01:33:35.920 Yes.

01:33:36.280 Now they're outside of that and they're struggling to gain the audience.

01:33:39.760 Kara has a bigger audience than I think Don is really struggling.

01:33:43.860 And, um, and I think that they look at you and they're like, you know, what does she have

01:33:50.040 that I don't have?

01:33:50.860 And it's like, well, a career doing this.

01:33:52.480 How much time do you have?

01:33:53.180 Yeah, exactly.

01:33:53.860 And they, they don't even, that's their real problem is they don't even understand what

01:33:57.220 they don't have.

01:33:57.780 So the, um, the Chuck Todd podcast, the Todd cast, he just left meet the press and NBC

01:34:05.240 and launched a podcast and got this long glowing profile in the New York times, uh, among other

01:34:11.180 places that promote him.

01:34:12.720 And even after that, what's the latest number, Debbie?

01:34:16.520 Uh, he has a following after again, glowing in the New York times, a following of 470 subscribers.

01:34:24.800 Oh, wow.

01:34:25.460 Not 470,000, not 4,700.

01:34:29.800 It's so strange.

01:34:30.540 Cause not all of them are like, like some of them do reasonably well, right?

01:34:33.940 It's like some of them.

01:34:34.900 Look, I'm sure he'll improve.

01:34:36.820 Oh, he's up to 518.

01:34:38.080 That's my staff and me who were checking it out this morning.

01:34:41.060 Um, we, of course, you know, you start slow and then you build over time, but that's unbelievable.

01:34:48.680 He hosted the meet the press for how many years?

01:34:52.080 And he, he just left.

01:34:53.700 It's not like, you know, when I started my podcast, I'd been off the air for almost three

01:34:59.220 years to two plus years.

01:35:00.520 Like he just left MSNBC and the, the Sunday show and nothing.

01:35:06.560 There are two kinds of people in these machines.

01:35:09.080 He is someone who is, it's like, he's operating on borrowed magic.

01:35:11.680 He's at an institution and he's benefiting from the brand of that institution.

01:35:15.620 And then you have, um, or you had a person like maybe Glenn Greenwald who, when he left

01:35:21.180 his company and started his sub stack, he removed all the reason everyone was reading.

01:35:27.220 That's so true.

01:35:27.860 And so all of these places, they, these huge institutions, they, they have people like

01:35:33.140 this who are, um, it's like the power of law.

01:35:35.460 Everyone is actually tuning in for this or that person.

01:35:37.800 And if they leave, the whole machine is threatened.

01:35:40.780 And, and those people have never had an easier time now plugging into sort of new, even things

01:35:45.080 like you're, you're a writer, you have sub stack, you can just start right away building

01:35:48.140 a business.

01:35:49.000 Uh, they're going to have a really hard time.

01:35:50.640 All these, these, these huge giants.

01:35:52.500 Yeah.

01:35:52.740 Yeah.

01:35:53.100 It's the difference between being a platform player, you know, like Don Lemon, it's like

01:35:57.320 only people ever reason anybody ever watched him is because he was on CNN and they had

01:36:01.680 on CNN.

01:36:02.300 And then I'm afraid that same is true for Chuck Todd, a platform player and, and being somebody

01:36:06.840 who has a genuine, powerful connection with their audience.

01:36:09.440 There are a couple of people on Fox news who I think could still do it.

01:36:12.100 Um, I definitely got felt could do it.

01:36:14.140 Jesse waters could do it, but I mean, for the vast majority of news talent, they're platform

01:36:19.800 players.

01:36:20.600 And when they come out into the sharky oceans, they find out it's a lot harder, you know,

01:36:25.500 to, to make it than it looks.

01:36:26.660 And, and, you know, something I was going to say right now under Trump, yes.

01:36:31.980 Now the social media companies are like, okay, we're going to restore a free speech.

01:36:35.220 Right.

01:36:35.620 I mean, from YouTube to Facebook, they're all starting to say that now.

01:36:39.440 I'm glad they're finally seeing reason, but let's be honest for the past five years,

01:36:46.480 they have been censoring everybody right of center on all of our opinions.

01:36:52.140 Only Elon, even Twitter was horrible until Elon, only Elon Musk in the time of war chose

01:36:59.100 the right side and stood up for free speech.

01:37:01.840 And honestly, it's because of him in large part, uh, and every, all of us who are out

01:37:08.240 there saying the things, even when you couldn't say the things that we preserved the right

01:37:12.740 to say the things.

01:37:13.840 So like, I'm thrilled that now these other tech companies are being like, okay, you can 0.84

01:37:17.640 say the things now, but I will always look at them as cowards. 0.85

01:37:21.540 Right.

01:37:22.340 And it's like, you have it for now that could change tomorrow.

01:37:25.600 I mean, who knows what's going to happen politically over the next few years.

01:37:28.480 So you have to build up as much as you can now and build up as much cultural power as

01:37:32.340 you can, and just get as many email addresses as you can and build your own little castle.

01:37:38.140 Yeah.

01:37:38.420 Because you just don't know what's going to happen with the platform.

01:37:41.380 On that, that reminds me, I, I, I need, I do need to remind my audience to send in your

01:37:45.640 email.

01:37:45.920 We never sell email lists.

01:37:46.860 So you don't have to worry about that, but we are trying to get an email list of our

01:37:49.760 subscribers just in case this happens to us.

01:37:52.040 You, if you would like to do that, please do it.

01:37:53.580 Just go to megankelly.com and you'll see there how to do it. 0.77

01:37:56.360 Um, but yeah, cause for that reason, belts and suspenders, like you don't, you never know

01:37:59.980 what big tech could do, what the next administration could bring.

01:38:04.040 But I'm just saying, it's like, you're right.

01:38:06.600 People like those two have been out there with the benefit of, you know, liberally controlled

01:38:12.240 outlets everywhere.

01:38:13.920 It's been ubiquitous around them.

01:38:15.060 And this is why the Snow White story, for example, has been so interesting, right?

01:38:18.580 Like it's cracking where we've infiltrated even Disney.

01:38:23.400 Now we're able to punish the wokest people at an institution like that with our dollars 1.00

01:38:28.700 and our voices in a way we could not have six years ago.

01:38:32.180 Yeah.

01:38:32.820 The Snow White thing is phenomenal.

01:38:34.600 Someone told me just before I came on that they, they got rid of, um, they canceled the

01:38:39.500 tangled one.

01:38:40.100 Yeah.

01:38:40.320 Yeah.

01:38:40.620 Yeah.

01:38:40.740 Like the next live action, which is disappointing to me because I was really looking forward to

01:38:44.760 them announcing that it was going to be sort of like a bald Rapunzel and they were going

01:38:47.760 to do like an, like have like an alopecia moment or something.

01:38:50.000 And it's like, this is like, it was just inevitable.

01:38:52.200 They would have found a way.

01:38:53.700 Uh, yeah.

01:38:54.340 I mean, it's, the Snow White thing is a perfect storm, right?

01:38:56.960 It's, I mean, it's, you had this obnoxious starring lady. 1.00

01:39:00.900 You had the dwarf drama, which went back and forth. 0.96

01:39:04.780 You had it in both ways.

01:39:05.720 You had it being, it was like, I don't know, bigoted against dwarves for having dwarves.

01:39:09.900 And then it was, it was bigoted against dwarves for not was the following backlash.

01:39:13.600 That's a can't buy man.

01:39:14.680 I mean, it just never, it was, it was, it was, uh, it was endless, but I think, yeah,

01:39:19.020 it's like Disney's going to have to figure it out.

01:39:20.780 Now they have to navigate culture and maybe they just never really knew what culture was

01:39:23.980 because of the platform censorship.

01:39:25.480 Now you can see it.

01:39:26.700 And it says, it's very just obvious that people are, are infuriated by this.

01:39:31.180 They're sharing the story with each other.

01:39:32.600 They don't want it.

01:39:33.500 And so what are you going to make for them?

01:39:35.460 If anything, now they have to deal with us.

01:39:37.880 It's like, there've been a couple of really important moments in getting to this point.

01:39:41.360 And yes, Elon buying X was a huge one.

01:39:43.640 I think conservatives holding the line on Bud Light was another huge one.

01:39:47.860 You know, they got that message loud and clear.

01:39:49.560 Eventually this Disney thing is important too.

01:39:51.880 It's not as big because we are, we won.

01:39:54.840 Trump has been elected.

01:39:55.880 We're still fighting.

01:39:56.660 The woke wars aren't over, but we got our president elected and, you know, the DEI's

01:40:01.040 executive orders and so on.

01:40:02.980 But that one was easy because she was so alienating and she just annoyed reasonable people all over 1.00

01:40:09.860 the country and probably all over the ideological spectrum.

01:40:11.980 And they've suffered.

01:40:13.920 Yay.

01:40:15.200 Yeah.

01:40:15.740 I don't, I mean, where do you think it, where do you, I guess, where do you think it goes from

01:40:19.640 here?

01:40:20.180 I think we're going to get tired of all the winning, like Trump says.

01:40:23.180 I'm looking forward to getting tired of all the winning right now.

01:40:25.660 I'm not tired.

01:40:26.180 I'm really enjoying it.

01:40:27.100 And I think our biggest problem is to get these judges out of the way so we can let the

01:40:31.220 wins unfold.

01:40:32.180 And that's why the Supreme Court needs to do its job.

01:40:34.220 And that's where we started the era and that's where we end it.

01:40:36.740 Mike, thank you.

01:40:37.640 Thank you for having me.

01:40:38.280 A pleasure.

01:40:38.820 Mike Solana, everybody.

01:40:39.820 Hope to see you again soon.

01:40:42.180 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:40:43.960 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 04, 2025

Trump vs. Judges, Clooney vs. MSNBC, and Legacy Media Failing in New Media, with Mike Solana, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis

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