The Megyn Kelly Show - Truth About Ashley Biden's Diary, and the State of Men, with Ryan Grim, Joel Pollak, and Coleman Hughes

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

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00:01:48.400 Today, we're taking a deep dive into a story that the media refuses to fully cover and the

00:01:53.520 White House wants entirely buried.

00:01:55.760 Ashley Biden's stolen journal.

00:01:58.880 She's the president's daughter.

00:01:59.820 She's the president's only child with his wife, Dr. Jill Biden, and she's an adult.

00:02:05.800 She's about 40 years old.

00:02:07.680 And the protection around this story has reached very bizarre levels.

00:02:11.980 All right.

00:02:12.560 Because this has become a national story.

00:02:14.660 She has made it a national story, and yet the media refused to report on it.

00:02:20.280 A few weeks ago, two people pleaded guilty to a federal conspiracy charge regarding the

00:02:25.840 president's daughter's stolen diary.

00:02:27.660 The police made headlines, but what did not is what's actually written in the diaries

00:02:33.200 that have now become a federal case.

00:02:36.020 Now, we have held off on reporting the details while covering this story in the past, too,

00:02:41.240 since there were questions about whether this diary did truly belong to Ashley Biden.

00:02:46.960 But now that two people have admitted to stealing it and are cooperating with the DOJ, and the

00:02:52.860 DOJ seems totally fine with this reporting by multiple media outlets that it was indeed

00:02:58.600 to Ashley Biden's diary and comes very close to explicitly admitting that itself in its

00:03:04.260 charging documents were good.

00:03:06.300 We're fine.

00:03:07.340 We all know that this if this was a diary belonging to Ivanka Trump, the details would have been

00:03:11.880 printed the minute they were posted online.

00:03:14.420 The second holding off would never even have occurred.

00:03:17.980 It wouldn't have it would have been out of the question for most of these outlets who have

00:03:23.080 a history of reporting on the Trump kids as if they are totally fair game.

00:03:27.400 But when it comes to Joe Biden's kids, well, you know what they did with Hunter and now they

00:03:32.640 do the same with Ashley, even though she is the one who is effectively making this again

00:03:37.340 a national story.

00:03:39.400 Joining me now, two journalists not afraid to cover this story, not to mention many others

00:03:44.060 involving Biden and his children.

00:03:46.100 And you can go beyond that.

00:03:48.160 Ryan Grimm is the D.C.

00:03:49.680 bureau chief at The Intercept and writes the bad news substack.

00:03:54.400 And Joel Pollack is a senior editor at large for Breitbart News and a host on Sirius XM Patriot

00:04:00.320 channel, which is also great, just like the Triumph channel where I am.

00:04:07.700 Ryan and Joel, welcome to the show.

00:04:09.200 Great to have you.

00:04:10.160 Good to be here.

00:04:10.840 OK, so let's just start with the actual decision to talk about the diary, OK, because let's

00:04:18.020 just cover why we're covering it and why nobody else is covering it.

00:04:22.540 And Ryan, you have a history of covering things people refuse to cover.

00:04:26.020 And thank God for doing that.

00:04:27.840 It's one of the things that drew us together.

00:04:29.620 I think the first time I really got to know your reporting was with Tara Reid.

00:04:33.280 Um, and that's another story the media buried because it reflected badly on Joe Biden.

00:04:38.480 But anyway, if you look at the history of news outlets reporting on things that have

00:04:42.420 been stolen, things that have been wrongfully obtained by a different source, not the reporter

00:04:47.800 reporting on it, but some bad guy does something bad and steals documents or hacks, emails,

00:04:53.440 et cetera.

00:04:54.000 That person may be in trouble with the law.

00:04:55.680 But typically the press has absolutely no, no problem ethically or otherwise in printing

00:05:01.520 the things.

00:05:02.220 Otherwise, we wouldn't have had Pentagon Papers or Glenn Greenwald's reporting on the Snowden

00:05:07.040 documents or all the reporting that was done, for example, when the Sarah Palin emails

00:05:12.520 were hacked.

00:05:13.700 That's just I'm just teeing it up for you, Ryan, on whether you want to comment on that.

00:05:16.620 My point is simply there's a pattern and there's a history of the media having zero problem

00:05:21.080 doing this.

00:05:21.740 Uh, what's happening here is they don't like what the, what the stolen, uh, parcel says

00:05:29.640 about their favorite president.

00:05:30.800 Yeah.

00:05:31.320 The, the Ellsberg, the Daniel Ellsberg Pentagon Papers case is, is probably the best example

00:05:36.040 because, you know, that's become, you know, a canonical, uh, in our culture, uh, as something

00:05:42.680 that, something good that was done, you know, that, you know, there have been moved, there's

00:05:46.760 still movies being made about the heroic decisions by the New York Times and the Washington

00:05:51.620 Post to, you know, push against the force of this, of the state, the, the rogue president

00:05:57.140 Nixon to, to plow ahead and publish these documents that had been stolen by Ellsberg, you know, from

00:06:04.240 the Rand Corporation and leaked and leaked to these newspapers.

00:06:07.100 And so once, once you have, uh, kind of lionized that you, you can easily walk backwards from

00:06:13.740 there and see like how important it is that the, that press freedoms not be restricted

00:06:19.780 based on where the information came from.

00:06:22.320 Because if you can only publish information that was that where you can prove that the

00:06:28.180 entire chain of custody, you know, was, was completely kosher and lawful from start to

00:06:32.940 finish very quickly.

00:06:34.880 You give the government power to, to censor and to stop publication of, of information that

00:06:40.500 that they don't want out by simply saying that's the, those are stolen or hacked materials

00:06:45.420 or maybe stolen or hacked materials.

00:06:47.020 And so therefore you can't publish on it.

00:06:49.320 And like you said, yes, the Snowden stuff, uh, you, you could, you know, you could argue

00:06:53.560 that the Podesta emails that, you know, appear to, you know, that were hacked one way or another,

00:06:58.640 whether you believe it was, it was Russia, which does seem to be, you know, that, that does

00:07:03.100 seem to be where the evidence is, but somebody hacked John Podesta.

00:07:06.480 Podesta didn't just, you know, leak his own emails to WikiLeaks.

00:07:09.740 Uh, you know, the, the news media covered those, uh, the news media has covered other,

00:07:14.240 you know, stole, you know, stolen and hacked documents.

00:07:16.480 And so I think it's incumbent on reporters to do, do what they can to verify the information.

00:07:21.880 If you, especially in our era where you're going to start seeing, uh, you know, you know,

00:07:26.900 bad actors, some, some States, some non-state actors who are going to be falsifying information

00:07:31.620 and trying to muddy the waters that way.

00:07:34.220 So, so you use your, your journalistic techniques to verify, to verify the information.

00:07:39.760 And then once you've done that, then as long as it's newsworthy, you report on it, uh, what,

00:07:44.400 whether it was stolen is not, uh, is not the question.

00:07:47.280 Now journalists can't, can't participate in the theft and we can get into that later.

00:07:52.960 Yeah.

00:07:53.700 You can't help.

00:07:54.560 If you help, you're in as much legal trouble as the thief is, or if you, you know, incite

00:08:00.440 the thief to go get it or what have you.

00:08:02.960 But, um, if you're just a good faith recipient of the stolen goods as a journalist, you can

00:08:08.960 go ahead and publish it.

00:08:09.880 And we've seen that repeatedly.

00:08:10.860 That's how Trump's taxes wound up in the New York times.

00:08:13.740 That's how Sarah Palin's emails wound up a national news story in 2008.

00:08:17.940 And I remember at the time, uh, going on O'Reilly and O'Reilly was mad that Sarah Palin's private

00:08:22.680 information was being published.

00:08:23.720 And he asked me as a young legal analyst, uh, is this, is this legal?

00:08:27.640 Shouldn't, shouldn't they not be allowed to do this?

00:08:29.500 And I explained to him at the time, it's illegal for the hackers.

00:08:33.000 It's not illegal for the press to then report on what's in there.

00:08:36.200 And so that brings us to question number two, when it comes to Ashley Biden's diary, and

00:08:39.560 that is, um, is it relevant?

00:08:42.180 Is there anything in there that's relevant and newsworthy?

00:08:44.040 And secondly, what about the general policy, unwritten policy of the press to say hands

00:08:50.960 off a presidential candidate's children, that the candidate is fair game, but the children

00:08:56.880 we tend to leave alone.

00:08:58.220 And I would say to you, Ryan, this is not a minor.

00:09:01.400 This is not Sasha and Malia Obama, um, or a young Chelsea Clinton.

00:09:05.360 This is a, an adult, um, whose diary has information that is, that raises a serious question about

00:09:14.980 the character of Joe Biden, of her father.

00:09:18.500 And so it is newsworthy.

00:09:20.540 And on top of that, even if you think, well, it still doesn't pass the test of, you know,

00:09:24.860 we don't touch a president's child in the news.

00:09:28.400 Two things.

00:09:29.460 Number one, they violated that with the Trump children ad nauseum.

00:09:31.640 And number two, she's the one who's made it a national news story by allowing this prosecution

00:09:36.780 of James O'Keefe.

00:09:38.680 Well, he hasn't been prosecuted, but he's been raided and of the two people who stole

00:09:42.900 it.

00:09:43.300 So what's your take on that, Ryan?

00:09:45.040 I do think that there are newsworthy components of it.

00:09:49.540 Uh, and I think people can, uh, disagree about the level of the, the newsworthiness because

00:09:55.060 there, there, it's not, it's not exactly clear what, you know, what, what she's saying.

00:10:00.280 And she says as much in the diary.

00:10:02.140 And so for people who haven't, you know, we'll get to that, we'll get to the content in one

00:10:05.520 second.

00:10:06.020 So, so yeah, so I think the general rule should be sure if it, that the children are private

00:10:12.100 citizens to the extent that their private lives don't intersect, uh, with either, you know,

00:10:17.740 implicating their, their public relatives, uh, in some type of, uh, wrongdoing or whether

00:10:24.520 they implicate some sort of corruption relative to their, their, their parents or other family

00:10:29.460 members who are, who are public.

00:10:30.780 So in other words, if, if she's just, let's say, uh, going through a really difficult time

00:10:36.660 in her life and going into, into, into rehab, uh, I, I don't necessarily, uh, you know, see

00:10:42.440 that as something that alone that is worth reporting on unless it represents some hypocrisy

00:10:47.600 on how, uh, you know, on how the public figure relates to say the drug war or something, something

00:10:53.540 like that.

00:10:54.060 But in general, I think you want to give, uh, the, the kids of these politicians some, you

00:10:58.360 know, privacy to live their lives.

00:10:59.320 But if, if, if it, like I said, if it implicates wrongdoing or if it implicates corruption, then,

00:11:06.220 then I think it's newsworthy.

00:11:07.300 Well, and on top of that, again, now she's made it a federal criminal matter that is widely

00:11:15.200 reported in all the news outlets.

00:11:16.740 And that's what, that's really what was the final straw for us, which was, you cannot have

00:11:20.640 the entire media reporting on an FBI raid of a journalist's home, journalists who work

00:11:26.740 for him on their homes.

00:11:28.140 And then going after criminally these two people for the theft of a diary, which we all know

00:11:35.780 they would never be doing if this were not the daughter of a president, and then expect

00:11:39.940 everyone to not delve into what is it about this diary that is so explosive.

00:11:45.060 They, they refuse to answer the question.

00:11:47.640 So it has become a national story.

00:11:49.740 It is news.

00:11:50.980 And if she really didn't want that, she should have strongly discouraged the FBI from pursuing

00:11:56.380 the matter at all.

00:11:59.080 It's become, it's become a press freedom issue for sure.

00:12:01.940 And I think that that's separate from the, the, you know, the contents of the subject

00:12:06.520 matter discussed in the diary.

00:12:08.240 But the question of, you know, whether or not, you know, the, the, the raid of, uh, project

00:12:14.120 Veritas founder O'Keefe was appropriate.

00:12:17.040 And, you know, the, the, the general, the general tenor of, of the kind of DOJ's posture toward

00:12:22.700 this, I think is, is, is quite concerning from, from a press freedom perspective, because

00:12:27.580 depending on, uh, like, as we were talking earlier, you know, project Veritas says it

00:12:32.920 had no role whatsoever in, in the theft of these, of, of the diary that a source came

00:12:38.000 to them, uh, with the diary.

00:12:39.720 And if, and if that's the case, and if there's still then a prosecution, then that ends up

00:12:45.480 putting journalists across the board on notice, uh, because you already have that, the precedent

00:12:51.420 being set with, with WikiLeaks where WikiLeaks, uh, did not participate in, in the hack of

00:12:57.160 the documents.

00:12:57.640 The, the only claim, uh, that, that they make when they're prosecute in the prosecuting

00:13:02.600 Assange is that, uh, Chelsea Manning said, do you want me to look for any more information?

00:13:07.980 And Assange very carefully said, and I, the, the quote was something like, in my experience,

00:13:13.800 curious eyes never run dry.

00:13:15.460 Some, some, something very close to that.

00:13:17.740 That's not good.

00:13:18.240 Just which, which is just generally saying, look.

00:13:21.420 I, I'm interested, I'm always interested in information.

00:13:24.180 So if that alone, just expressing a general interest in information, uh, counts as, you

00:13:30.180 know, a criminal conspiracy to commit hacking, uh, to, you know, and that, that puts you as

00:13:35.100 somebody who's now a collaborator in this crime, then any journalist who, you know, who, who's

00:13:41.720 receiving information from a source and asking for ways to verify it and, uh, and otherwise

00:13:47.620 doing what is generally considered to be basic reporting has, you know, can now be criminalized.

00:13:53.060 Yeah.

00:13:53.240 Is guilty.

00:13:53.740 And we have to talk about chilling effect.

00:13:54.880 All right, Joel.

00:13:55.260 So the other piece of it is that I mentioned, um, just a moment ago was the media's glee in

00:14:01.620 reporting on the Trump children knows no bounce, no bounce, right?

00:14:06.920 Like there's been absolutely no respect afforded to them.

00:14:09.080 And again, I get it, they're adults, at least one of them actively participated in the administration,

00:14:14.820 but it goes beyond, oh, did Donald Trump Jr.

00:14:19.020 coordinate with the Russians?

00:14:20.380 Oh, did, did Ivanka Trump belong at whatever summit?

00:14:23.220 They've got Mary Trump, the, the cousin of the, the Trump kids running around on every

00:14:31.220 show and in every publication to push her book, which is sold somewhere over a million

00:14:36.520 copies, I believe, talking about who the Trump children are and what kind of a father Donald

00:14:43.580 Trump was, how he wasn't.

00:14:46.220 I just pulled it just, I was just like one Google search before I came on the air that

00:14:49.860 the children, this is from Mary Trump, they believe the way to get their father's attention

00:14:53.280 is through cruelty and subservience.

00:14:56.540 The Guardian reported reporting about how Trump was a distant father who never changed

00:15:01.180 diapers and instead encouraged the jump up, we could keep going.

00:15:04.620 But this has been totally fair game with the adult children of Donald Trump without any

00:15:08.760 ethical or moral pause.

00:15:11.680 I think that's correct.

00:15:12.760 I think there is a double standard and it's reinforced all the time.

00:15:16.080 This week we saw the New York attorney general, Letitia James, sue the Trump children over

00:15:22.840 real estate valuations.

00:15:24.740 Meanwhile, conservatives and perhaps Americans in general are asking when there's going to

00:15:29.440 be some sort of legal action about Hunter Biden's lobbying and his overseas business interests,

00:15:35.100 which don't really seem to have led prosecutors to any civil or criminal prosecutions or suits.

00:15:42.720 So there is definitely a double standard.

00:15:44.960 I will say that my entry into this story is very much on the First Amendment free speech

00:15:50.340 side and less on the question of the substance of what Ashley Biden wrote, because this issue

00:15:57.020 really exploded, I think, as a First Amendment issue, not just because of the FBI raid last

00:16:02.920 November at O'Keefe's home, although that was important, but because after that raid, the

00:16:07.880 New York Times started publishing legal memos that were written to James O'Keefe by his

00:16:13.460 attorney and they didn't say where they got those, they were evidently leaked by somebody.

00:16:19.120 Now, they could conceivably, I guess, have been leaked by somebody within James O'Keefe's own

00:16:24.680 Project Veritas organization, but it's hard to imagine that.

00:16:28.520 The timing is odd.

00:16:29.540 James says no.

00:16:29.840 You have this federal raid, all these materials seized, and then suddenly the New York Times,

00:16:35.580 which at the time was being sued by O'Keefe and still is being sued,

00:16:38.820 in state court in New York for defamation, the New York Times starts publishing all kinds

00:16:43.420 of confidential legal information, communications from O'Keefe's lawyer to O'Keefe and to Project

00:16:51.120 Veritas.

00:16:51.640 So a New York judge rightfully stepped in and applied or appointed a special master.

00:16:57.440 You know, we've seen that issue come up a lot with Mark Olago, but this special master

00:17:01.480 is meant to go over the evidence that was seized.

00:17:04.700 And the judge basically said, we have to make sure that there's no leaking going on from

00:17:10.100 the FBI or the DOJ into the New York Times for the purpose of this state court litigation.

00:17:16.260 So it's really not just about the federal authorities violating press freedom, potentially, by going

00:17:24.040 after O'Keefe and targeting him for what he was publishing or what he had in his possession,

00:17:29.300 because Project Veritas didn't actually end up publishing Ashley Biden's diary or running

00:17:34.020 a story about it that happened elsewhere.

00:17:35.980 And I'm sure we'll talk about that in a minute.

00:17:37.760 But it's also a question about the New York Times getting access to confidential information

00:17:44.160 about the plaintiff in a lawsuit against the Times.

00:17:47.580 And it looks like that information had to have come or very likely came from a government

00:17:53.040 source.

00:17:53.580 So now not only is the raid potentially a violation of press freedom, but now you see federal authorities

00:17:59.480 using their privileged access to information about O'Keefe and about Project Veritas to

00:18:04.460 assist another potential media ally, the New York Times, at least if you imagine that the

00:18:09.620 left-leaning Times and the politicized Department of Justice are on the same political side now.

00:18:14.320 So there are so many free speech and First Amendment press freedom issues wrapped up in this.

00:18:19.940 And that's when I started writing about it.

00:18:21.720 The question of the substance, and I know we're going to get to that in a minute, is a very

00:18:26.020 complicated one because we're talking about a diary.

00:18:29.640 Now, I keep a journal.

00:18:31.500 I've done so for 22 years.

00:18:33.920 I would be horrified if somebody found one of my journals and published its contents.

00:18:39.480 Why?

00:18:39.540 What's in there?

00:18:40.860 Exactly right.

00:18:41.700 I mean, there's all kinds of stuff in there.

00:18:43.540 I mean, I use it as part of a creative process.

00:18:45.900 So I have things that are as boring as what I'm planning to do that day, sorting out my own

00:18:51.720 internal thoughts about what's on the schedule.

00:18:53.860 And then I have things, ideas and thoughts and what I dreamed about last night or whatever

00:18:58.740 it is, but things you would only tell a therapist.

00:19:01.240 It's private, right?

00:19:01.960 So it's chilling to know not only that someone else could come into possession of something

00:19:06.620 like that, and we all have personal things in our lives, whether they're diaries or other

00:19:09.800 things, but also that that would become public knowledge.

00:19:12.780 And it's sort of a nightmare to imagine that this other person out there has access to your

00:19:18.740 innermost thoughts, particularly as in Ashley Biden's case, when she was struggling with addiction

00:19:23.540 and where apparently keeping the journal was part of the process of going through recovery

00:19:30.500 and rehabilitation.

00:19:31.640 And so you need to be able to be completely open with yourself.

00:19:36.160 And I suppose with the people who are helping you through rehab, we want people to be able

00:19:40.980 to go through that process, whether they're famous or obscure.

00:19:44.020 But and so we do have a privacy interest also.

00:19:47.480 I mean, that's also a right that that we take very seriously, whether it's vis-a-vis the

00:19:52.200 government or vis-a-vis other people who want to honor that.

00:19:55.640 So it may not be a legal question or even from a journalistic point of view, an ethical

00:19:59.020 question.

00:19:59.440 But there is a moral question involved as well in the publication.

00:20:02.660 No, I get it.

00:20:03.440 I get it for sure.

00:20:04.340 And I also have a journal and I definitely would not want to see it in the press.

00:20:07.560 But there there's a reason this all went down.

00:20:10.540 I mean, the reports have been from James, who came on this show and detailed in great

00:20:16.080 detail how he came into contact with the people pushing the diary and so on, that they originally

00:20:21.800 claimed that it was abandoned.

00:20:23.240 She was at some friend's house or a halfway house.

00:20:25.460 I've heard it described different ways down in Florida.

00:20:27.700 And she left.

00:20:28.800 She she moved out, I gather, and left it behind for some long period, which I imagine you would

00:20:34.740 never do, Joel, with your journal.

00:20:36.360 And nor would I ever do.

00:20:38.300 You mean, like, it's very scary to leave possession of something like that behind and move on without

00:20:43.840 it.

00:20:44.160 And there is a risk in doing that, not to excuse the thieves who have now said they did

00:20:48.640 steal it.

00:20:49.560 But I'm just saying that there's that was a problem.

00:20:52.240 That's how this thing happened.

00:20:53.720 And then secondly, the police will always sit you down, the feds, the prosecutors, and always

00:20:59.440 say to you as a crime victim, here are the upsides of going after the bad guys.

00:21:03.540 And here are the downsides.

00:21:05.020 The upsides are justice.

00:21:06.360 Potentially someone pays for their wrongdoing.

00:21:08.840 The downsides are things that you may not want out about yourself and your personal situation

00:21:13.540 are going to have to be testified to on a stand.

00:21:15.980 People are going to learn things about you in this situation that you did not want the

00:21:18.820 public eye.

00:21:19.740 And in particular, in a case like this, and then the victim gets to decide whether they

00:21:24.720 want that out there.

00:21:25.780 So very clearly, this is my very educated guess, Ashley Biden approved this.

00:21:31.840 She approved going after these guys for stealing it and potentially of James O'Keefe.

00:21:35.940 And she knew that this was going to get out.

00:21:38.300 I mean, it was already released.

00:21:39.300 I realized that.

00:21:39.980 But can I ask you about that?

00:21:41.240 We're now reporting on it everywhere without reporting the contents.

00:21:45.120 Go ahead, Joel.

00:21:45.440 So what we know from public reporting is that the Biden campaign went to federal authorities

00:21:50.820 and perhaps Ryan has some information about this.

00:21:53.800 But I don't know whether she personally said she wanted them to pursue the case.

00:21:57.800 We know that the Biden campaign did so.

00:21:59.600 They wouldn't have consulted with her.

00:22:01.260 She is the victim.

00:22:02.500 There's just no way.

00:22:03.900 I mean, it's like the case where the wife accuses the husband of beating her.

00:22:07.360 And then she says, wait, never mind.

00:22:08.620 I don't want you to go after him.

00:22:10.720 Yes, the D.A. could still go after him.

00:22:12.980 And sometimes the D.A. will because she says this is a matter of public safety.

00:22:16.360 And I'm there to uphold justice, irrespective of whether the victim wants it.

00:22:20.840 But in ninety nine point nine nine percent of cases without the victim, you don't do it.

00:22:24.900 You just don't.

00:22:25.580 But in point in point zero one percent of cases, the victim's father is the president

00:22:31.100 of the United States.

00:22:32.160 Right.

00:22:32.920 And so there is no way Joe Biden would authorize this if his daughter did not want it.

00:22:38.340 Well, I don't know.

00:22:39.980 We can say that for sure.

00:22:42.200 I mean, look, we're all just guessing.

00:22:44.260 But I feel like my guess is a well-educated guess.

00:22:47.860 And like you said, it was already up.

00:22:48.980 And I actually think there's a there's a there's a journalistic ethics violation,

00:22:53.200 I would call it, in publishing the entire diary.

00:22:55.580 So I think that publishing the newsworthy content.

00:23:00.340 I'm with you on that, because when you get your hands on the diary and we're going to

00:23:03.200 talk about the newsworthy portions right now.

00:23:05.980 But, you know, like, let me put it this way.

00:23:07.740 If you get somebody's diary under all these circumstances we've discussed and the person

00:23:11.200 is like, so and so is so dreamy.

00:23:14.540 Mrs. Ashley Pollack, you know, like and with the hearts around it, you know, this is not

00:23:20.880 relevant.

00:23:21.260 Nobody needs to know about, you know, her private hopes and dreams and her love relationships

00:23:25.760 and who cares.

00:23:27.220 But the stuff about him is on point.

00:23:30.720 It's relevant.

00:23:31.240 And we're going to get into it.

00:23:32.080 OK, so the most newsworthy part of this, Ryan, is the part about.

00:23:38.480 What she calls her own sex addiction and how she says she got this sex addiction, and this

00:23:47.040 is the paragraph in which she mentions Joe Biden.

00:23:50.820 I'm trying to get to the actual exact quote.

00:23:53.540 I don't know if you have it in front of you.

00:23:54.640 OK, I've got it.

00:23:57.020 I'm going to read this.

00:23:58.220 It was from an entry, January 30th, 2019, where she says, I've always been boy crazy.

00:24:07.620 She writes about some things she did when she was younger, which you don't know, whatever.

00:24:10.960 You can read all this on the Internet.

00:24:12.140 It's just this is only my choice about what to report.

00:24:14.700 She says, I was hyper sexualized at a young age.

00:24:18.360 What is this due to?

00:24:20.240 Was I molested?

00:24:21.100 I think so.

00:24:22.740 I can't remember the specifics, but I do remember trauma.

00:24:26.440 I remember not liking the blank house at some some family's house.

00:24:30.280 I remember somewhat being sexualized with a female cousin.

00:24:35.940 I remember having sex with friends at a young age.

00:24:39.820 Showers with my dad.

00:24:41.760 Probably not appropriate being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be.

00:24:46.340 And she goes from there.

00:24:47.440 The shower the showers with her dad, which she describes as probably not appropriate, is newsworthy.

00:24:55.580 And it's especially newsworthy because it fits into a greater pattern of bizarre behavior by Joe Biden with young women that the media has also been reluctant to cover.

00:25:08.360 What do you make of it, Ryan?

00:25:10.320 I think the I think it's newsworthy in a sense that I think the public has a right to know that that particular piece of of information in there.

00:25:18.280 I think some on the right have have exaggerated its its newsworthiness because by by not noting that, you know, the ambiguities in it.

00:25:28.400 Like, I think I'm not sure, probably inappropriate and focus instead just on that one line.

00:25:36.420 But I still think that that's for the public to to work out that that that is something that that is that would that crosses the bar of of newsworthiness even as but whereas a lot of it isn't like a lot of like like you said, like what she did as a as a kid or or in high school or whatever with her marriage.

00:25:56.080 Not like not. Yeah. Her marriage. None. None of that is the public. Does the public have a real right to as far as I mean, I'm just going to be honest.

00:26:04.920 I do want to know more about showers with her father that she thinks were probably not appropriate, Joel.

00:26:09.560 I think that's fair game that we've watched this. I Ryan interviewed Tara Reid.

00:26:14.980 I interviewed Tara Reid. Almost nobody else in the media would talk about Tara Reid, Joe Biden's sexual harassment accuser who came forward during the campaign.

00:26:22.920 You can disbelieve her all you want. Fine. That's your prerogative. But that's newsworthy.

00:26:27.080 The media completely snuffed out that story. He was also accused by another person of Lucy Flores of having behaved, touched her inappropriately.

00:26:36.340 We had Betsy DeVos on the show not long ago. Betsy DeVos, the former education secretary under Trump, who said she was in a wheelchair at one point.

00:26:44.260 And Joe Biden came over, put his hands on the wheelchair, put his forehead down to hers and started rubbing her forehead.

00:26:49.320 And she felt trapped and inappropriate. It was he's got a pattern of this.

00:26:53.780 We've all seen the videos of him with a young girl sniffing the hair.

00:26:57.040 And I'm sorry, may make you feel uncomfortable, but it is worthy of discussion as to whether this guy's got a pattern of inappropriate behavior toward women, especially young ones.

00:27:06.840 I agree. And I think that's what makes it newsworthy.

00:27:10.920 What's interesting is that Project Veritas decided not to publish it, despite its newsworthiness for all the reasons you mentioned, as well as the fact that it did actually become part of the campaign in 2020,

00:27:23.280 because Joe Biden was eventually pressured to come out and admit that he had been a touchy feely sort of person.

00:27:32.180 He didn't say toward women or younger women in particular.

00:27:34.640 He just said, that's the way I am with everybody, with men and women.

00:27:37.920 And I'm going to try to be different.

00:27:40.280 The Andrew Cuomo defense.

00:27:41.960 Right, exactly.

00:27:43.500 So I think it's relevant from that point of view and newsworthy.

00:27:47.720 The question is, from the perspective of Project Veritas, why wasn't it published?

00:27:53.340 And we don't know the full answer to that.

00:27:55.920 And from the limited reporting there's been about that, it appears that they made a strategic decision that it would look somewhat cheap or it would be a cheap shot, they said, to publish that.

00:28:07.200 And I guess then you have to look at it in terms of what the role of Project Veritas is.

00:28:12.380 And I come from Breitbart, which is very open about its conservative views and conservative editorial standpoint.

00:28:20.760 So there is a kind of advocacy journalism that strives to be accurate, but certainly has an agenda or an ideology.

00:28:30.060 And Project Veritas decided that it would not be to their benefit or the benefit of the cause for which they do their journalism for them to publish this.

00:28:39.440 Obviously, there were differences of opinion over that because it's now emerged that somebody at Project Veritas leaked the diary to another publication, hoping it would be published.

00:28:49.420 I think it would have...

00:28:50.540 And it was, it was.

00:28:51.300 And it was.

00:28:52.040 And I know we're going to get to that, but I think for a long time it wasn't clear whether Project Veritas had publicly made the decision not to publish, but then privately, secretly leaked to someone else so that it would come out.

00:29:05.440 And I think we now know that wasn't the case, but I think it would have looked worse in terms of the case they're now facing or they may face in the future from the federal government if they had played this kind of double game where they're going to maintain a kind of moral stance in public about this kind of material and then in private leak it to other publications.

00:29:26.160 It appears that didn't happen and that there was actually an unauthorized leak.

00:29:30.900 And I'm confused about the reasons because as I recall, when James came on this show, he said the reason we didn't publish it is because we could never satisfy ourselves that in fact it was Ashley Biden's.

00:29:42.280 You know, that they had done a few things to try to confirm that, but they never got it to the point where he was comfortable saying...

00:29:49.700 Can I say something about that?

00:29:50.620 Well, but can I just say, let me just finish and then I'll give it back to you.

00:29:53.680 But now the New York Times is reporting that what actually happened was they did satisfy themselves that it was hers.

00:30:01.320 They got her on the phone.

00:30:03.220 Some of James's people, his journalists, got her on the phone saying, oh, we think we found it.

00:30:10.260 We want to return it to you.

00:30:11.380 And everybody involved felt that they had sufficient confirmation from her.

00:30:14.840 She was like, oh, God, yes, please give it to me to proceed based on the assumption this did indeed belong to her.

00:30:23.520 And then they report that James allegedly went to then candidate Joe Biden and wanted an on-camera interview with him in which he was going to present the diary.

00:30:35.000 And that never happened.

00:30:37.020 And then James did not publish it.

00:30:39.700 And then James went down to the authorities in Florida and returned it saying, we believe it may be stolen property.

00:30:46.800 And then one year later was raided.

00:30:50.060 At this point, Joe Biden had become president.

00:30:52.600 Go ahead, Joel.

00:30:54.180 So the point I was going to make is that when you are known for the kind of journalism that Project Veritas is known for, which is undercover journalism, right?

00:31:02.900 Their major scoops happen when they are able to place an undercover reporter inside an organization who has a video camera or a microphone and they can record what people are really saying when they think nobody else can hear them.

00:31:17.460 They can observe how left wing organizations or government organizations are really working.

00:31:24.360 And I think the risk that they were worried about was that someone might be trying to do that to them.

00:31:31.580 I think that they are hypersensitive to the risk of being reported on in the way that they have become known for reporting on others.

00:31:40.560 So I think that they might have been hypercautious with regard to the diary because there's nothing worse for their credibility than to be fooled, let's say, by someone who's planting something with them that would discredit them.

00:31:54.380 And I suppose if it's something so really sensational and personal, it would look so much worse if they had published it and it turned out not to be real.

00:32:03.840 So I think they were very sensitive to that issue, partly because of the way they do their own journalism.

00:32:08.900 And can I add to that real quick?

00:32:10.140 Yeah, go ahead, Ryan.

00:32:10.880 And so I interviewed the publisher of the National File, which is the conservative publication that ended up actually posting the diary.

00:32:21.220 And he said that his source at Project Veritas disputed O'Keefe's public claim and said that they absolutely did verify that the diary was authentic and that O'Keefe saying that they couldn't verify it was just cover.

00:32:37.680 Because what Veritas is also known for is fearless journalism and not flinching in the face of power.

00:32:46.540 And so to say that you have verified the diary and then to have flinched at publishing it might have been some type of a blow to their brand or to their credibility.

00:32:57.600 And so publicly, internally, O'Keefe told staff this would be a cheap shot.

00:33:03.320 That's why we didn't publish it.

00:33:05.100 I think that's accurate.

00:33:06.100 But publicly, he said, we couldn't verify it.

00:33:08.960 We would have.

00:33:09.960 You know, we're not afraid to publish whatever, you know, whatever we have, but we couldn't verify it.

00:33:14.740 So I think that that was not true.

00:33:16.580 I think I think that Joel's right that they're on guard for, you know, for getting punked.

00:33:22.460 But I don't think that that's what happened here.

00:33:24.820 Well, that would make sense.

00:33:25.460 I mean, if James came to the conclusion that this doesn't make them look good and isn't doesn't rise to the level of warranting publication and the and he was honest with his staff about that.

00:33:36.100 I can understand that.

00:33:37.420 And then publicly, I can understand a lot of people who run businesses have a different message outwardly than they do when they're dealing with their own staff about their reasoning.

00:33:44.680 And then a couple of guys got ticked off and leaked it so that it did hit.

00:33:49.540 It did hit before the election.

00:33:50.820 It was the month before the election and, of course, got no coverage and nobody cared.

00:33:54.600 And I don't I don't think in any way this would have been a deal breaker for his election, his electoral chances.

00:33:59.160 But again, it's kind of not the point.

00:34:01.740 You know, it's like they were already working on suppressing another story about one of Joe Biden's children a month before the election, Hunter Biden.

00:34:09.520 So I'm sure the media had no interest in this.

00:34:11.680 And, you know, this is a problem at many levels with the FBI, with the media and so on.

00:34:16.900 We're going to pick it up because Joel's been doing a lot of reporting on Hunter Biden.

00:34:20.660 And we've got an update on that case.

00:34:22.680 Where is that case?

00:34:23.480 By the way, lots of indictments of Trump, not a one of Hunter Biden, as we continue with Ashley and Hunter Biden right after this break.

00:34:37.580 So before we move on from Ashley, the thing that really galls me about this whole thing is how the media has absolutely no interest in it.

00:34:45.080 Right. They know it's going to reflect poorly on Joe Biden.

00:34:47.640 They've ignored it.

00:34:48.620 And it reminded me, Ryan, of what they did to Tara Reid.

00:34:51.780 First, they tried to totally ignore her.

00:34:54.120 Then when she finally came forward, she gave you an interview that I read.

00:34:57.660 That was really interesting.

00:34:59.140 She gave me an on-camera interview.

00:35:01.200 They tore this woman to shreds.

00:35:05.980 This is I'll never forget doing this interview because of right in the height of the covid pandemic, the lockdown.

00:35:10.340 And I got on a flight.

00:35:11.800 I was in Montana.

00:35:12.480 I got on a flight to go out to see her.

00:35:14.040 And it was there was literally nobody in the airport.

00:35:15.960 I mean, it was truly a ghost town in the airports that I was going to, including Denver, which I had to, like, connect in.

00:35:22.400 I mean, Denver is a massive airport.

00:35:24.420 Nobody was there.

00:35:25.380 It was so weird.

00:35:26.740 You know, I took an overhead shot at one point.

00:35:29.560 Just it was an eerie ghost town.

00:35:30.960 In any event, I went.

00:35:32.300 I did my own hair and makeup just for the record because you couldn't get hair and makeup during the covid pandemic.

00:35:36.520 And as a reminder, here's how that went and what she accused Joe Biden of doing when she was his intern.

00:35:44.740 It happened very quickly.

00:35:46.220 I remember I remember being pushed up against the wall and thinking the first thought I had was, where's the bag, which is an absurd thought.

00:35:57.540 But that's what I thought was the bag.

00:35:59.400 Yeah, because I was handing it to him and he had his hands under underneath my clothes and it was it happened all at once.

00:36:13.620 So he had one hand underneath my shirt and the other hand I had a skirt on and he like went down my skirt and then went up.

00:36:23.800 And I remember I was up almost on my tippy toes.

00:36:25.900 And when he went inside the skirt, he was talking to me at the same time and he was leaning into me and I pulled this way away from his head.

00:36:37.660 I remember.

00:36:38.620 And so he was kissing my neck area and he whispered, did I want to go somewhere else in a low voice?

00:36:45.180 He said some other things.

00:36:46.840 I can't remember everything he said.

00:36:48.840 Um, but he said, um, something vulgar and I asked what he he said, I want to fuck you.

00:37:02.440 Hmm.

00:37:04.420 You can believe Tara Reid or not believe Tara Reid, but that's that is a newsworthy story.

00:37:08.960 And what I see right now, right now is reporting on E.

00:37:13.000 Jean Carroll and her lawsuit against President Trump over something that happened 20 plus years ago, allegedly on a plane and the media runs.

00:37:20.380 And by the way, I've interviewed the Trump accusers so everyone can just take a seat on the left.

00:37:25.060 He said, what about the Trump accusers?

00:37:26.440 Well, I think I might be one of the only reporters on earth who's interviewed both Trump accusers and Biden accusers.

00:37:31.400 I don't care.

00:37:32.540 My politics don't enter into this.

00:37:34.380 So, um, the media loves to report any story to this day on women accusing Trump, but Tara Reid gets shut down and the Ashley Biden diary to me, Ryan, fits right into the same pattern.

00:37:48.260 Yeah, I think everyone should be everyone should be heard, you know, who has, you know, who has a credible and credible enough claim.

00:37:55.940 Uh, and I, the, the, I think the media is having a hard time for, with the Ashley Biden diary for a lot of the reasons that, that you say, but also the, like, like we were talking about earlier, you, in order to like do, you know, do a, you know, an on-camera interview with Ashley Biden, she'd have to agree to participate in an on-camera interview.

00:38:17.980 For instance, uh, all you can do right now is, is point to that, that one line in, in the diary, though, that line is an, it's a newsworthy line.

00:38:28.540 Uh, it raises all sorts of questions about, uh, the obvious questions.

00:38:33.460 Uh, but without, without more, it, it does become difficult, um, to know, you know, how to, how to advance the story.

00:38:42.340 Hmm.

00:38:42.780 I don't think it's difficult.

00:38:43.820 I think it's pretty on the nose, how the questions that need to be raised.

00:38:46.900 You can't always answer the questions as a journalist, but it's our job to raise them.

00:38:51.240 It's, that's our, it's literally part of our job.

00:38:54.140 Joel, you've been raising questions about the Hunter Biden situation.

00:38:57.200 We're in the news today as Letitia James, once again, going after Donald Trump in a civil case and not just Donald Trump, but his children as well, as you pointed out, claiming that they overstated the value of certain real estate assets in order to get favorable loans.

00:39:11.320 The banks are not complaining.

00:39:12.920 The banks are not claiming that they were defrauded.

00:39:14.360 The banks are not claiming that Donald Trump misled them.

00:39:17.240 But Letitia James has swooped in to say she's mad about it and is pursuing them.

00:39:22.180 Meanwhile, nothing, nothing on Hunter Biden.

00:39:24.840 And as far as I can tell, I went back just to look at the dates.

00:39:27.420 The, the computer repair guy who got the laptop, that was 20, hold on, I wrote it down.

00:39:33.660 Um, it was April of 2019 that Hunter Biden left the laptop at that, at that store.

00:39:41.300 Uh, John Paul Mac Isaac, he's a computer guy.

00:39:43.940 He says in December of 2019, after he contacted them, Giuliani got involved, all that, two FBI guys came and took the laptop, December of 2018.

00:39:54.240 And we now know that the grand jury had already opened an investigation into Hunter Biden as early as 2018, prior to the laptop even coming on their radar.

00:40:05.660 And yet here we are, 2022, closing it out, Joel, nothing, nothing on Hunter Biden, no indictment, nothing.

00:40:12.860 Why?

00:40:13.300 What's the update?

00:40:13.800 Well, it's very interesting that the month in which the FBI seized or took possession of Hunter Biden's hard drive from the Mac store was also the very moment when the House of Representatives was busy impeaching Donald Trump over the phone call in which he asked the president of Ukraine to investigate the alleged connections between Hunter Biden and Burisma and all of that.

00:40:40.500 And the story of Hunter Biden's hard drive isn't just newsworthy because of the drug use and the sex and so forth.

00:40:49.860 The leading story that came out of that, the first story the New York Post published was about Hunter Biden arranging a meeting between then Vice President Joe Biden and one of the other board members on the Ukrainian energy company Burisma.

00:41:05.080 So it really was about substantiating the accusation that Hunter Biden had profited from selling access to his father to this energy company.

00:41:15.580 That's something that Joe Biden denied.

00:41:17.580 That's something that the impeachment investigation deliberately wouldn't allow questions about or tried to minimize.

00:41:24.200 And that's the point at which the FBI took possession of the hard drive and then set on it rather than moving ahead with an investigation.

00:41:29.840 So what was newsworthy there was that it substantiated the allegation that Hunter Biden had used his father's position to enrich himself.

00:41:41.100 And it raised questions about whether Joe Biden had also benefited directly or indirectly from allowing his son to do that.

00:41:49.860 Biden had already said on the campaign trail, and I was actually in the room when he said it in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

00:41:55.660 I was covering the Democratic primary in 2019 and 2020, and Mark Caputo, I think it was from Politico, asked the question in a press scrum about his family's business interests.

00:42:06.860 And Joe Biden said unequivocally he had never discussed any of his family's business interests.

00:42:13.900 And here was an email on the hard drive proving that he had, in fact, done so or that he very likely did so.

00:42:19.900 I mean, he's meeting the business associate of his son from Ukraine.

00:42:25.040 So this was very, very important.

00:42:28.180 It's the reason that the laptop was a story.

00:42:31.060 The pictures of Hunter Biden, the lifestyle stuff, that's human interest.

00:42:35.300 It does have some broader newsworthiness just because if that stuff is out there, if the laptop is abandoned somewhere, maybe foreign intelligence might have it.

00:42:44.020 You might be able to blackmail the president.

00:42:46.000 And it's the same reason people raised for defending some of the reporting on Russia collusion.

00:42:49.920 You know, if Trump had been cavorting with prostitutes, as the Steele dossier suggested, then it was important to know whether that was true because Russia might have compromising information on Trump.

00:42:59.320 And that's the newsworthiness angle of that story, although it didn't pan out to be true.

00:43:02.620 But the Hunter Biden story was suppressed, and it was suppressed even though it was directly relevant to the very same kinds of questions that were being asked about Donald Trump and that had been asked for many years.

00:43:15.480 And in that vacuum, we weren't really seeing any reporting on Hunter Biden.

00:43:19.660 And that's one of the reasons that conservative filmmakers had stepped forward.

00:43:24.820 We've got the mysonhunter.com movie by Robert Davi, which is based on real material on the hard drive.

00:43:33.860 It's based on Hunter Biden's autobiography.

00:43:35.920 That's another difference, by the way, between that case and the Ashley Biden case.

00:43:39.380 Hunter Biden wrote a book about his own experiences, reviewing a lot about his drug use and about his past, obviously hiding some things, concealing or trying to explain away.

00:43:49.600 She wrote a book about hers, too.

00:43:50.880 She just thought hers was going to stay private.

00:43:52.580 They both wrote a book.

00:43:53.680 She just thought hers was going to stay in her dresser.

00:43:55.720 Wait, let me shift gears because I only have a couple minutes left.

00:43:58.400 The New York Post, Miranda Devine reporting earlier this month that the FBI agent, this guy, Tim, is it Tibalt?

00:44:05.640 T-H-I-B-A-U-L-T, basically buried the Hunter Biden investigation at the FBI.

00:44:12.680 She reported that Bobulinski, member Tony Bobulinski, who was in on this whole thing with Hunter,

00:44:17.740 and he he was sort of the guy in all these meetings with Hunter who was saying, you know, Joe Biden's the big guy and these these folks are, you know, corrupt.

00:44:26.840 He spent over five hours being interviewed by the FBI in October of 2020.

00:44:31.960 He gave them contents of three cell phones, encrypted messages and all sorts of emails and financial documents,

00:44:37.240 and that he was allegedly told that this guy, Tibalt, was going to be his point man.

00:44:44.600 That's the one who at the FBI you should contact.

00:44:47.040 He's got this.

00:44:48.840 And Bobulinski, according to Devine, was never contacted again, nor was he brought before the Delaware Grand Jury investigating Hunter.

00:44:57.240 That was a big question.

00:44:58.000 We had we wondered, had he testified in front of them?

00:45:00.680 And she's reporting, nope, he never got contacted by the FBI again and reminded me I had Senator Ron Johnson on this program not long ago.

00:45:07.960 And I asked him about Bobulinski and listen to what he said.

00:45:11.220 We were actually going to do a transcribed interview with Tony Bobulinski, but the FBI, I'll say, convinced him to interview them first.

00:45:22.720 And I warned him, said, if you want your information out, don't go to the FBI.

00:45:28.320 That's just going to be a black hole.

00:45:29.880 And quite honestly, that's what ended up happening there.

00:45:31.700 So, you know, past that press, that press conference, we didn't get a whole lot more information in terms of eyewitness testimony from Tony Bobulinski, unfortunately.

00:45:41.480 That guy, Tibalt, Joel, has now retired from the FBI just this month amid an investigation of special counsel into his anti-Trump social media posts

00:45:49.680 and after Republican senators suggested he buried the Hunter Biden material that would have damaged Joe Biden's candidacy.

00:45:56.880 I'll give you the last word.

00:45:57.600 I think there are real questions and concerns about the degree to which the Department of Justice has become politicized, has been politicized.

00:46:05.220 And there are other questions about the degree to which left leaning media seem perfectly OK with that.

00:46:11.080 You know, we started this discussion by referencing the Pentagon Papers, which was a very important investigative story.

00:46:17.500 And now we have this complete trust in the CIA, the FBI, the DOJ.

00:46:22.900 We're seeing conservatives starting to question those institutions.

00:46:25.300 But we see the media simply accepting their word.

00:46:29.100 And it's a very, very serious problem if the Department of Justice is on one side of the political spectrum or the other.

00:46:36.960 Yeah, that's right.

00:46:37.680 We need to be able to believe in these institutions.

00:46:40.140 And the more you hear about the FBI in particular, the more it's tough.

00:46:45.940 Ryan, Joel, thank you guys both so much.

00:46:48.320 It's been a pleasure.

00:46:49.780 Thanks, Megan.

00:46:50.220 Thank you.

00:46:51.060 All right.

00:46:51.340 We're going to be right back with our pal Coleman Hughes, who's been just crushing it on the podcast front lately.

00:46:56.420 Really interesting stuff going on over there.

00:46:58.140 And don't forget, folks, you can find the Megan Kelly show and we can find it on video at YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly, including the full video show and clips.

00:47:07.900 And you can email me right now at Megan at Megan Kelly dot com.

00:47:14.920 It's Megan at Megan Kelly dot com.

00:47:17.560 That's how you can reach me and subscribe for that weekly email from me at Megan Kelly dot com.

00:47:23.240 OK, you'll get tomorrow's American News Minute.

00:47:28.140 Today, we welcome back one of my favorites, Coleman Hughes.

00:47:34.460 Coleman is the host of Conversations with Coleman, which you should definitely download right now if you haven't done it already.

00:47:39.680 And he is a brilliant thinker with a unique philosophical perspective.

00:47:43.620 It's even more mind blowing because he's only 26 years old.

00:47:46.460 We're going to dig into the state of men in this country, why young adults are apparently miserable.

00:47:51.500 And we're going back to that Canadian teacher.

00:47:54.560 Welcome back, Coleman.

00:47:55.580 Great to have you.

00:47:56.860 Great to be on again, Megan.

00:47:58.720 Have you seen the the Canadian shop teacher?

00:48:00.880 Have you seen this person?

00:48:02.280 You know what I'm talking about?

00:48:03.360 Yes, I have.

00:48:04.220 I have.

00:48:04.700 OK, so another picture of this person has just been released.

00:48:08.840 I gather it's by the pool, which we will show the audience.

00:48:13.020 So if you look at YouTube dot com later, you can see this.

00:48:15.340 And I have to tell you, this is absurd.

00:48:17.420 I mean, this is like this person's in bright orange, like bike shorts, a bright yellow T-shirt with the blonde wig.

00:48:24.320 And again, this enormous set of breast prosthetics that is down to below his navel.

00:48:30.000 Now he's he's a she now because he's transitioned to female.

00:48:35.520 And this is apparently this person's idea of what women look like and how they behave.

00:48:39.740 And it isn't.

00:48:40.460 And of course, they've got the crazy fake nipple prosthetics on there just as for an added insult.

00:48:45.440 And I have to tell you, as a woman, this really irritates me.

00:48:48.020 I'd love to be able to say this is not what women look like.

00:48:50.920 But then you look at like the Kardashians and I think, oh, I know I'm not sure I can make that argument.

00:48:55.920 But still, I feel offended by his caricature of women.

00:48:58.840 And I feel really offended that he brings it into shop class by the circular saw with young children.

00:49:05.460 What's your take on this one?

00:49:06.880 So my take on this is that, you know, I'm not sure it has to do with the trans issue.

00:49:11.800 What it has to do with is the fact that.

00:49:15.440 If you look so distracting that no one in class can focus, then you shouldn't be a teacher.

00:49:21.700 You shouldn't be hired.

00:49:23.320 And it's it's cause to be fired.

00:49:25.660 Like if if I were a teacher and I showed up to school every day in a full clown costume, not on Halloween.

00:49:33.900 And that made it impossible for me to teach a class because no one could take me seriously or no one could take their eyes off of the the ostentatious displays, you know, on my body.

00:49:46.020 That would be enough cause for firing.

00:49:48.160 And if you showed up to a job interview in a clown costume, you know, no one would hire you.

00:49:52.660 So to show up with just gigantic prosthetic breasts, whether you're trans or not, like for all I care, it could be a cisgender woman that that just showed up with something impossible to ignore.

00:50:06.540 That makes it impossible for kids to focus.

00:50:09.540 You can't be a teacher.

00:50:10.840 I'm sorry.

00:50:11.800 Well, you're exactly right.

00:50:13.400 You you may or may not be surprised to learn you've hit the legal standard directly on on the head, at least in America, Canada.

00:50:21.940 I don't know.

00:50:22.700 But in America, the courts have repeatedly found in their seminal U.S. Supreme Court case saying if it's a distraction, it can be ruled out of acceptable bounds.

00:50:33.620 So you can children children don't lose all of their free speech rights when they cross the, you know, the schoolhouse threshold.

00:50:40.820 But if what they're trying to say elevates into a distraction, the school can quiet it down, can snuff it out.

00:50:48.620 And that's what this person is.

00:50:49.620 But the Canadian authorities and apparently Canada law is all about protecting one's expression of one's gender identity.

00:50:57.960 And so this really could be taken to an even further extreme than this one.

00:51:02.120 We were talking yesterday about what if somebody wanted to wear a fake male prosthetic bulging out of their pants?

00:51:07.420 You know, I mean, that's OK, because that that would be as offensive as this.

00:51:11.800 And yet they seem to think you're a bully if you object to this.

00:51:14.600 Right. I mean, I think there comes a point where you have to be in touch with common sense.

00:51:21.500 And, you know, the purpose of a classroom is to get kids to learn.

00:51:25.260 It's a hard enough task already to have something so distracting is it's just a nonstarter.

00:51:31.080 And the way that this is framed as a trans rights issue, I just think that's the wrong framing of the issue.

00:51:37.000 Once it gets framed as a trans rights issue, it becomes this sacred space where you cannot critique anybody.

00:51:43.320 You cannot make common sense observations about, you know, what a classroom requires.

00:51:50.160 And and so I just think this whole this whole framing it just because this person is trans, I have no problem with trans people.

00:51:57.840 I call people what they want to be called as a matter of courtesy.

00:52:00.340 And and I would even agree trans people face a lot of discrimination. Right.

00:52:04.960 But this is not that this is, you know, you have to be able to run a school and run a classroom by some common sense ideas.

00:52:15.060 And the people I want to deny that are just living in a different world.

00:52:18.400 But it has something to do with it, because if this were a biological woman who was just really well endowed or who had chosen to get breast implants of this size, it would it would be different.

00:52:32.620 You couldn't say, don't bring those breasts into class.

00:52:36.340 You know, they're on her.

00:52:37.580 They're part of her.

00:52:38.360 This, as we understand it, is a prosthetic that he is putting under a sweater with enormous nipples that no actual breasts anywhere truly have.

00:52:49.080 So clearly, this is a person looking for attention of a sexual nature parading around children.

00:52:56.340 And so, like, there's there is an element to this connected to this person's biological sex that we wouldn't we wouldn't have if this were a biological woman.

00:53:06.080 Well, the way I would put it is the reason it's so distracting is because it's clearly a prosthetic and it's all of that is noticeable.

00:53:14.980 Right.

00:53:15.560 If you just had a cisgender woman, which is, say, a typical woman who happened to be very well endowed, it actually wouldn't be that distracting to kids because we're used to what a typical woman looks like.

00:53:28.900 And that's just inherently not as distracting as seeing someone that your mind knows was born a male have gigantic prosthetic breasts and impossible nipples.

00:53:41.700 Right.

00:53:41.840 All of that contributes to actually all of that is the reason why it's so distracting.

00:53:47.120 Right.

00:53:47.820 It just says to me, this is a choice.

00:53:50.360 If you have naturally enormous breasts, you know, like that's your thing.

00:53:55.000 What?

00:53:55.160 OK, but like to put them on display with the fake nipples, which are so in your face is a choice.

00:54:02.740 He clearly is making this choice for a reason that he can take that up with his therapist.

00:54:07.880 But it disturbs me that this person wants to parade around like that in front of children, even though they say this is a great shop teacher.

00:54:15.620 It's unfortunate because if this person had just continued teaching shop and how to make, as the guys were saying yesterday, just want to make a birdcage, a little birdhouse, then we wouldn't be discussing this person as a as a national news story.

00:54:29.960 All right.

00:54:30.100 There's a related story in the news today that I want to get your take on.

00:54:32.560 I don't know.

00:54:34.100 It's another thing.

00:54:34.840 I was like, I feel uncomfortable, but I have to say how I feel, which is I'm not in favor of this person being featured at the Forbes Power Women Summit.

00:54:44.660 Most Powerful Women or Women Summit.

00:54:46.320 I don't know.

00:54:46.560 It's Forbes.

00:54:47.000 They're sort of trying to draft on on the back of the Fortune Most Powerful Women Summit, which is a thing that a lot of women go to.

00:54:53.340 So now Forbes is getting in on the deal and they have invited because it's 2022 someone who is a trans woman.

00:55:01.080 OK, so this person is named Dylan Mulvaney and this person, I guess, has there's a TikTok video and this person is very famous.

00:55:11.620 It's got like seven million followers on TikTok about the the 66 days or this is day 66 of girlhood with Dylan skipping around outside, basically acting like a moron here.

00:55:21.980 Here's a clip.

00:55:24.300 Day 66 being a girl.

00:55:26.140 And today I'm in nature.

00:55:28.500 Trees.

00:55:28.980 I love them.

00:55:30.800 Water.

00:55:31.480 Lakes.

00:55:32.100 I love them.

00:55:33.640 Heels.

00:55:34.200 They're my hiking heels.

00:55:35.380 I love them.

00:55:36.520 OK.

00:55:41.100 Bridges.

00:55:42.280 Love them.

00:55:44.920 Coconut water.

00:55:46.000 Love it.

00:55:46.620 Not nad.

00:55:47.300 Just love it.

00:55:48.840 Wind turbine.

00:55:50.000 Love it.

00:55:50.920 Meadows.

00:55:51.720 Love them.

00:55:53.060 The hills are alive.

00:55:55.620 The sun.

00:55:56.820 The sun.

00:55:57.260 Oh, I'm scared of getting Lyme disease.

00:56:01.160 I'm scared of getting Lyme disease.

00:56:02.940 Love you.

00:56:04.480 Oh, she freaks out.

00:56:07.540 There's a bug.

00:56:08.240 Did you see that?

00:56:10.040 I got to get out of here.

00:56:12.540 Did you see that?

00:56:14.360 There's a dragon.

00:56:15.220 Oh, my God.

00:56:16.240 Never again.

00:56:16.980 Get me out of here.

00:56:18.040 Love you.

00:56:18.580 Yeah.

00:56:19.680 I don't even know if that's a joke or if it's that's real.

00:56:22.680 Like the bit with the the bug at the end.

00:56:24.880 But here's the thing.

00:56:26.460 Dylan is not a woman.

00:56:28.620 Dylan is a trans woman.

00:56:30.040 And there is a difference.

00:56:31.640 And Dylan has been acting like a woman for a very short time and doesn't know Jack about

00:56:38.320 what it is to be a woman.

00:56:39.500 And I don't think she'd be speaking at the at the Forbes women's summit.

00:56:44.680 I just think we're getting to the point now where we've lost sight of what it actually

00:56:49.740 is to be a woman.

00:56:52.480 What's your take?

00:56:53.240 Reminds me of the Dave Chappelle joke.

00:56:56.660 I think I think it was the Chappelle joke about.

00:57:05.020 Oh, God.

00:57:05.780 How am I blanking on her name right now?

00:57:08.080 Woman of the year time woman of the year from 2016 2017.

00:57:12.100 Caitlyn Jenner.

00:57:12.920 Yeah.

00:57:13.120 Caitlyn Jenner that, you know, she had been she became woman of the year after one year

00:57:18.160 of being a woman.

00:57:19.500 Right.

00:57:19.900 And almost almost any woman that's lived a lifetime as a woman being a girl as a child

00:57:27.240 being, you know, someone like yourself that has been extremely successful in industries

00:57:35.460 dominated by men and and some of the things that the challenges you've had to face in your

00:57:41.740 career and that many women women like you have had to face and overcome all of that is,

00:57:48.280 I think, at the core of the difference between a cis woman's experience and a trans woman's

00:57:54.360 experience.

00:57:55.380 And for what it's worth, it goes the other way.

00:57:57.140 I don't think cis women know what it's like to be a trans woman.

00:58:00.060 No.

00:58:00.540 And I wouldn't expect to be named trans woman of the year or be honored at a trans women

00:58:05.920 conference.

00:58:07.500 That's right.

00:58:08.020 And so it is a bit of a mockery and it smacks of Forbes trying to signal that they're not

00:58:16.620 bigoted against trans people and going along with a popular trend right now that has very

00:58:24.360 little to do with actually supporting and uplifting women.

00:58:28.240 Now, I mean, it's fine that this TikTok star is funny and has a following and is sort of like

00:58:34.280 weird in this funny way and absurdist.

00:58:37.160 That's all cool.

00:58:38.840 That doesn't mean she should be speaking at a conference that is aimed at highlighting the

00:58:45.400 challenges women face because she probably knows very little about that.

00:58:49.340 Exactly right.

00:58:50.040 This is why it's so infuriating when they talk about Rachel Levine, who's in the Biden

00:58:54.740 administration, as the first female admiral to obtain this position.

00:58:59.600 Meanwhile, it's like Rachel Levine lived until her late 50s as a man, went to medical school

00:59:06.340 as a man back in a time when it was very hard for women to get into medical school.

00:59:10.940 And now they want us to celebrate Rachel Levine as this woman who's crossed barriers.

00:59:15.800 It's like she didn't cross any barriers.

00:59:17.920 She was a man her whole life till 10 years ago.

00:59:20.720 And now she gets to the top of our mountain and she's like, look at me, ladies, I did it.

00:59:25.940 And we're all like, what the hell?

00:59:27.180 How'd you get there?

00:59:27.860 You got helicoptered in.

00:59:29.800 We don't get any of the credit for having the blood, sweat and tears, literally, that

00:59:34.320 come with living one's life as an actual woman.

00:59:38.080 It really irritates me.

00:59:39.900 And just like the stuff we've talked about in the past, Coleman, about like people who

00:59:43.740 are obsessed with racial differences and shoving them down our throats all the time.

00:59:47.180 It causes alienation, right?

00:59:49.460 It's like so undermining to the growing acceptance most people are having of trans men and women

00:59:56.440 who, for the most part, just want to be left alone and don't need to be celebrated in these

01:00:00.940 summits, etc.

01:00:01.960 Yeah, my impression is that most trans people are not like this TikTok influencer, right?

01:00:11.480 Most trans people that have no media profile, they want to be left alone.

01:00:16.420 They want to live their life, live expressing their gender identity and just having a life

01:00:21.940 like the rest of us, I think.

01:00:23.240 Um, they don't, they're not necessarily going in for these absurd stereotypes of the gender

01:00:29.580 they're transitioning to.

01:00:31.740 And it's good to keep that in mind.

01:00:34.420 It's, uh, it's also just, it's good to know like how different this would be on any other

01:00:39.780 topic like race, for example.

01:00:41.240 If you lived your life as a white person for 50 years and then transitioned to being black,

01:00:48.280 you wouldn't be getting awards, right?

01:00:50.200 That you would be an object of fascination.

01:00:53.480 But, um, yeah, this is, this is a trend right now.

01:00:57.420 And we have to remember it's a trend that like 95% or more of people are not a part of.

01:01:06.260 This is a trend.

01:01:07.480 If you think this is a big thing, it's because you are living your life in the elite bubble

01:01:12.340 where Twitter is real life and, uh, TikTok is real life.

01:01:16.380 And, you know, the vast majority of the electorate left and right are not living on a plane where

01:01:23.160 this kind of trend is, uh, the, the right thing in their minds.

01:01:27.960 And that's always something you have to keep in mind.

01:01:30.160 No, it's very true.

01:01:32.000 Um, before we leave the topic of trans people, the Atlantic made a bunch of news this week

01:01:38.960 and got a lot of people reeling, um, people on the left and the right, uh, on, because they

01:01:44.680 have the, have this piece that is titled separating sports by sex doesn't make sense.

01:01:51.840 Um, now this, this is something for the Atlantic.

01:01:54.900 Maybe you see this in some far, far left.

01:01:57.180 And I realized the Atlantic is left leaning, but like, this is pretty established far left.

01:02:01.380 Um, they make the following points, uh, is by Maggie Mertens, maintaining the binary in youth

01:02:09.160 sports reinforces the idea that boys are inherently bigger, faster, and stronger than

01:02:13.340 girls in a competitive setting, a notion that's been challenged by scientists for years.

01:02:18.740 Those sex differences in sports show advantages for men.

01:02:22.380 Researchers today still don't know how much of this to attribute to biological difference

01:02:26.800 versus the lack of support provided to women athletes to reach their highest potential.

01:02:35.140 Part of the reason why we have this belief that boys are inherently stronger than girls.

01:02:38.660 And even the fact that we believe gender is a binary is because of sport itself, not the

01:02:43.280 other way around says a university of British Columbia professor, uh, in sociology who she

01:02:49.840 interviewed for this piece.

01:02:51.320 I'm sorry, Coleman, but this is like beyond the pale.

01:02:54.980 Now they're arguing that if we could just be more encouraging to little girls to be boys

01:03:01.320 and to play in boy sports and vice versa, that somehow the girls are going to grow to be six

01:03:06.660 foot two, they're going to get larger femurs, their hearts are going to enlarge like a man's

01:03:11.680 is, and somehow we're going to generate the testosterone needed to have the muscle strength and all the

01:03:17.800 other things that come with testosterone.

01:03:19.160 Like this is absolutely absurd to appear in a place like the Atlantic.

01:03:21.900 So in the past five years or so, there's been this question of why don't people trust experts?

01:03:30.280 Why don't people trust the experts?

01:03:31.760 People have been banging their head against the wall about why the, you know, the so-called

01:03:37.320 rubes and uneducated masses of this country don't trust experts.

01:03:41.900 This article in a nutshell is the reason, right?

01:03:47.780 You could, you could not have a high school degree.

01:03:50.060 You could be like my grandmother and have a third grade education.

01:03:54.680 And you know, based on, on every single, you know, day of your life, just witnessing the world

01:04:01.960 that men are quite a bit stronger, especially in the upper body than women.

01:04:06.620 And that there's just no competition between your average man and your average woman at

01:04:11.340 something like an arm wrestle or, you know, a sport like basketball or football.

01:04:15.700 And then it's actually dangerous for men and women en masse to compete against each other

01:04:22.460 in contact sports.

01:04:23.600 This is among the most obvious things you could possibly know about human beings.

01:04:30.820 They challenge that too.

01:04:32.140 In this piece, they say, um, what's the difference between a man competing against a woman in

01:04:38.280 whatever the sport may be, let's say wrestling or swimming, what have you versus a woman competing

01:04:43.500 against a woman who's a lot taller than she is and a lot more muscular than she is.

01:04:49.320 Well, listen, there's some truth to that.

01:04:51.200 I mean, if you want to get really deep and philosophical about it, it's all luck at the

01:04:55.960 end of the day.

01:04:56.460 It's like Usain Bolt was born with a better package of genetics than both you and me.

01:05:01.900 Neither of us would be a match for him, um, in a, in a hundred meter dash.

01:05:07.460 And a lot of that has to do with our genetics at, but at the end of the day, the reason we

01:05:12.600 segregate gender in sports is because if we didn't, women would not have a league to participate

01:05:19.100 in, in 90 plus percent of sports.

01:05:22.300 There may be a few at the edge where strength doesn't matter so much, but in 90% of sports,

01:05:27.680 women would not have a league.

01:05:29.840 And that actually would be a gender injustice for all the women out there that really love

01:05:34.660 to compete, which there are a lot of women out there that love to compete.

01:05:39.220 And the only way for that to happen is us for, for, for us to have women only leagues.

01:05:44.000 Like it doesn't work to just say we could segregate everything by weight class, right?

01:05:49.140 And maybe the 120 pound weight class would effectively be the women's weight class.

01:05:53.540 No, there's going to be 120 pound man.

01:05:55.820 That's going to dominate that weight class.

01:05:57.860 The only way to make it so that women have a field to compete is, is to gender segregate.

01:06:03.280 And I'd love to hear from all the female athletes in the world that make their living or, or just

01:06:08.180 the female athletes that don't make their living, but who love to compete and love sports as a

01:06:12.240 hobby.

01:06:12.740 I'd love to hear what they have to think about the idea of getting rid of gender segregation,

01:06:17.520 right?

01:06:17.860 These X, these so-called experts are so out of touch with the real world and which, with

01:06:23.480 what actual people want and value.

01:06:26.520 And that's why they've lost all credibility.

01:06:29.920 And then to look back at the women, as this article suggests and say, it's not, it's not

01:06:36.720 the biological differences between you and the man that make the man better, faster, stronger.

01:06:42.540 It is the lack of support provided to female athletes to reach their highest potential.

01:06:49.500 I'm telling you, Coleman, the messaging to young girls and to young boys is almost universally

01:06:56.000 negative.

01:06:57.360 Young girls are told being a woman is to be me too, to get unequal pay, to be introduced

01:07:05.320 into the patriarchy.

01:07:07.060 And if you, you know, if you see biological differences between you and your male athletes,

01:07:13.740 it's because the system screwed you.

01:07:17.100 They didn't support you and your efforts to reach your full potential.

01:07:20.920 Okay.

01:07:21.280 And young boys, which we'll get to in a minute, are being told you're part of the problem.

01:07:26.060 You're toxic.

01:07:27.660 You should shut up and take a seat and let the women go by you.

01:07:31.920 Meanwhile, as I know you just discussed in a recent podcast, the boys enter school at

01:07:36.820 a less mature age with more disadvantages facing them.

01:07:40.420 They tend to be more active and get disciplined more readily because of their natural tendencies

01:07:45.580 to just be, you know, active and energetic.

01:07:48.500 And they're sort of put behind the eight ball from the beginning, but they're held up as

01:07:52.240 privileged to the rest of the world.

01:07:54.440 So we get it from all sides.

01:07:56.400 But I do think telling young girls the reason you can't beat the boys is because the system

01:08:00.020 effed you is deeply problematic.

01:08:03.320 Well, yeah, it, it, it, first of all, it's, it's wrong on the facts and it, it encourages

01:08:08.040 an attitude of, um, ungratefulness, entitlement, the idea that the world is against you.

01:08:16.260 I think, you know, most of us know that that attitude is one of the least helpful attitudes

01:08:21.400 for living a happy and productive life, right?

01:08:24.740 It's like every religious tradition at its best teaches that you should be, you know,

01:08:31.420 count your blessings, uh, think about what you're thankful for every day, not, not focus

01:08:37.240 all day on, uh, you know, the, the small ways in which you may, you may be disadvantaged,

01:08:42.780 right?

01:08:43.540 That's even useful if you come from a lot of disadvantage, right?

01:08:46.960 If you come from a lot of disadvantage, it's still useful to, to dwell on the positive because

01:08:51.420 that's what leads to a successful mindset.

01:08:54.700 The worst thing you can do is teach someone to be, um, ungrateful and angry at things that

01:09:02.040 aren't even there, right?

01:09:03.720 You're, you're literally, you're feeding the evil side of human nature, the unhelpful side

01:09:08.640 of, of our personalities, the self-pitying and the wallowing.

01:09:11.500 It's, it's the opposite of what you ought to do to, uh, to raise self-possessed and well-adjusted

01:09:18.440 adults.

01:09:20.020 Think about it.

01:09:20.400 Think about somebody like Serena Williams, right?

01:09:23.080 The tennis queen who did not have a father who in any way looked at her and thought,

01:09:28.760 you can't do it.

01:09:30.180 You're less than right.

01:09:31.640 To the contrary, this guy, both Serena and Venus were raised to be tennis stars and dominant.

01:09:40.340 And they were, they were, they crushed women's tennis.

01:09:43.560 And in no, at no point did the system message to these girls, like you are not going to be

01:09:49.540 able to play tennis more so than their own parent message to them.

01:09:53.820 You will, you'll be number one.

01:09:56.300 They, they get crushed.

01:09:57.560 They get crushed by the 532nd player.

01:09:59.780 And they did.

01:10:00.720 There was a playoff where they played, Serena played against some guy who was like barely

01:10:04.060 ranked and he killed her.

01:10:05.360 Um, it's not because Serena Williams sucks at tennis, not at all, right?

01:10:09.620 It's because there are inherent biological advantages that men have over women.

01:10:13.160 And this is why, by the way, you're not going to see, you are not going to see trans women

01:10:17.240 get into women's tennis.

01:10:19.480 It's not going to happen because it would devastate women's tennis and women's tennis would be

01:10:22.960 over in the course of a week because some no name guy could in a day, declare himself

01:10:28.100 a woman crossover and crush everybody and wind up getting all the prize money from all the

01:10:32.940 major grand slams and so on.

01:10:34.320 So it's just absurd to think about looking at a little Serena and saying, if only you

01:10:39.920 had had better support around you, you could have been the world's number one tennis player,

01:10:45.660 not just the women's.

01:10:48.640 Yeah.

01:10:49.280 I mean, the solution to this may be to have a separate trans league that is separate

01:10:53.880 from both the men's and the women's league, um, because there is this problem.

01:10:59.120 There are trans athletes that love athletics and have every right to compete.

01:11:03.520 And we want to create a society where they can compete in that sport too, but we can't

01:11:08.320 do it by destroying women's sports.

01:11:10.420 That's just not, that's absolutely absurd.

01:11:13.340 Um, and it denies biology.

01:11:16.440 It denies, it denies justice to women that have been practicing their sport from 4am every

01:11:24.160 day since they were a child to just come in and have someone who has gone through male

01:11:29.380 puberty, just destroy them with relatively little, little effort.

01:11:34.040 Um, so I think, I mean, the solution to this may be to have separate trans leagues for,

01:11:39.920 for sports where, uh, you know, strength is, is a component.

01:11:45.120 I'm in favor of that.

01:11:46.200 I think that's fine.

01:11:46.860 I think that we should find a way for trans athletes to compete a way that's fair to,

01:11:51.360 to everybody.

01:11:52.000 Like, and it's always the women who get screwed.

01:11:54.460 There's just no trans men who are beating biological men, cis men.

01:11:59.280 There's that doesn't happen.

01:12:00.400 Right.

01:12:00.660 So it's like, although they, women are inherently better at certain things that are in the athletic

01:12:04.900 field than men.

01:12:05.440 And I'd learned this when I went to camp Lejeune and pretended to be a Marine for a story I

01:12:09.020 did at, uh, NBC, which is super fun and hard.

01:12:12.280 Um, they told me that women tend to be better at, uh, at better snipers.

01:12:18.240 Like they would have their breathing is slower and more controlled.

01:12:21.600 And I guess their aim can be better.

01:12:23.060 Meanwhile, Rob O'Neill is like, I've got a shiver down his spine right now.

01:12:26.060 Like, bring it.

01:12:26.940 But I'm just saying, that's what they told me at camp Lejeune.

01:12:29.940 So I'm just not saying that you could never beat a man as a woman, but come on, let's get

01:12:34.440 real.

01:12:35.000 Okay.

01:12:35.200 Let me, um, shift to something that's related.

01:12:37.620 New Harvard study.

01:12:39.080 Young people are miserable.

01:12:40.380 I mean, absolutely miserable.

01:12:41.800 And this is basically your age group.

01:12:43.880 You're so young.

01:12:44.740 It's hard for me to believe those who are 18 to 25 are basically at an all time low when

01:12:50.760 it comes to happiness.

01:12:51.700 They felt they were worse off, um, across all these dimensions, happiness, health, meaning,

01:12:57.540 character, relationships, financial stability, uh, et cetera.

01:13:01.060 Worse than any previous generation or group between those ages has ever felt and social

01:13:08.920 connectedness reported to be the lowest in this group as well.

01:13:12.220 So ironic given the advent of social media and the iPhone and all that, which you've grown

01:13:17.600 up with.

01:13:18.280 So you're, you know, on the cusp of that, you're 26, but what do you make of the massive

01:13:23.140 unhappiness amongst this age group?

01:13:25.820 Yeah, so the, the first explanation that comes to my mind, and this partly comes from the

01:13:32.780 psychologist, Jean Twenge, who wrote a book called iGen a few years ago.

01:13:39.340 Uh, she was early noticing this trend of people roughly my age and younger, just, you know,

01:13:47.160 taking a sharp decline in happiness and life satisfaction right around the time that iPhones

01:13:53.500 come onto the scene, uh, in combination with social media and iPhones, what this does is,

01:14:01.140 you know, roll the clock back to 2005.

01:14:04.840 If something terrible happens in Topeka, Kansas, I'm not going to learn about it, right?

01:14:11.780 It's going to be in the local Topeka newspaper the next day, and there will be time enough

01:14:17.060 for journalists to really assess what happened and present, present the facts to you.

01:14:23.140 Now, now look at what happens today.

01:14:25.500 Something horrible happens in Topeka, Kansas.

01:14:27.700 It's in my newsfeed within minutes, probably a video of it.

01:14:32.040 So what, what this dynamic creates when the speed limit of information has, has like been

01:14:39.600 increased by a thousand fold, it's that now people feel that horrible things are happening

01:14:46.460 in the world every single minute.

01:14:48.140 It creates this atmosphere of fear, this sense that, um, every problem is a thousand times

01:14:54.300 bigger than it actually is.

01:14:56.380 You combine that with the fact that people are substituting real life interactions for phone

01:15:03.900 interactions, which are not nearly as high quality, right?

01:15:07.260 Um, all of the, the highlights, uh, all of the trends that Gene, uh, highlights in that

01:15:12.460 book are, um, teens are going out less than they used to.

01:15:16.400 They're, they're having sex less than they, than they used to, right?

01:15:18.960 They're experimenting with real life in every domain less than they're less than they used

01:15:25.020 to.

01:15:25.180 They're staying in their house, they're on TikTok, they're reading articles about how scary the

01:15:30.820 world is.

01:15:31.300 And all of that is, is substituting what in an earlier generation would have been going

01:15:37.160 and hanging out with friends, talking to people face to face and living the kind of life that

01:15:43.180 we as animals were meant to live, right?

01:15:45.760 We're meant to talk to people face to face and people are just doing less of that.

01:15:50.140 And it's, it's having a clear effect on mental health.

01:15:54.360 You layer in all the things we just discussed, you know, the negative messaging to young girls

01:16:00.540 and to young boys and you factor in cancel culture, the obsession with identity, the messaging

01:16:06.460 that it's good to be a victim, not as great to be a victor, you know, that it's just, these

01:16:12.580 kids have a lot to get past to find that happiness wall, you know, to just get over all these barriers

01:16:20.040 that people place between them and wellness and happiness.

01:16:24.060 This reminds me of the discussion I heard you having with Roland Fryer, brilliant economics

01:16:29.700 professor at Harvard, who's now been turfed off of his lab, at least has been turfed because

01:16:34.060 of some bullshit Me Too allegations because they didn't like his reporting on race, which

01:16:39.360 was totally fair.

01:16:40.340 But anyway, he wasn't towing the party line.

01:16:42.300 Anyway, Roland, who started all these charter schools that are just crushing it, was telling

01:16:46.940 you and we, and I learned myself when I was reading his experiments and his approach,

01:16:50.420 kids come in, disadvantaged, rough life, kids of color, and he believes very strongly the

01:16:58.280 response is, I know, it's sad, I'm sorry.

01:17:00.540 Anyway, this is the bar to which you're going to be held.

01:17:02.960 It's way up here.

01:17:07.140 That's exactly right.

01:17:08.220 I think, I mean, I would give a shout out as well as to Roland, to Ian Rowe, to my friend

01:17:12.660 Ian Rowe, who-

01:17:13.420 Yeah, he was just on yesterday.

01:17:15.120 Yes, that's right.

01:17:16.120 Yeah.

01:17:16.380 Who, who for many years ran a charter school in the, in the South Bronx.

01:17:21.840 And, you know, I, I asked him this question, what do you make of this idea that if kids

01:17:26.160 come from a disadvantaged background, you have to, you have to give them a pass, right?

01:17:30.860 If they show up late to class, you have to say, oh, well, I know he only has one parent

01:17:35.360 in the home and he comes from a poor neighborhood and there's crime in his neighborhood and his

01:17:38.920 brother's in a gang.

01:17:39.800 So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just give the kid a pass.

01:17:42.660 I'm gonna show some mercy.

01:17:43.560 Um, what Ian said to me, and I, I think is, is true is that, you know, in life, you often

01:17:50.720 have no idea how high you can fly until somebody demands it of you.

01:17:56.040 You, like you, you, I could, I can say this of my own education.

01:18:00.520 Um, you know, when I was in sixth grade, I went to a much more rigorous private school

01:18:04.280 than I had come from.

01:18:05.300 The school I came from, everything was easy for me.

01:18:08.260 And then suddenly I went to a much more difficult school and I really thought that I was going

01:18:13.360 to fail under the, the, this, like this sudden jump in expectations.

01:18:19.340 But what actually happened is it lit a fire under me and I, I just excelled much more than

01:18:26.260 I thought was ever possible.

01:18:27.980 So, so the truth is most people don't know how good they can get at a skill, whether that

01:18:34.420 is a school-based skill or something else until somebody demands that they meet a certain

01:18:41.120 level.

01:18:41.540 And then you realize you can actually fly much higher than you thought possible.

01:18:45.740 And this is doubly true.

01:18:47.340 This is doubly and triply true for kids that come from chaotic, poor neighborhoods where they

01:18:53.920 don't know anyone who's been to college.

01:18:55.640 And, um, the, the boilerplate expectations they have for themselves is to be impressed if

01:19:03.440 they finish high school.

01:19:04.500 Um, right?

01:19:05.860 Like if, if that's your level of expectations, you more than anyone need someone to come into

01:19:10.620 your life and tell you that you can actually achieve here, right?

01:19:14.800 Cause no one will tell you that you won't get that evidence from your environment until

01:19:18.220 someone comes in and sets the bar high for you.

01:19:21.320 So you're not doing kids any favors by quote, showing them mercy on, on these kinds of things.

01:19:27.400 It's so true.

01:19:28.700 I mean, I'll just tell you a story in my own life where, you know, my dad died when I was

01:19:33.900 in high school.

01:19:34.420 I went off to college to Syracuse.

01:19:36.440 My mom was still grieving and in a dark place emotionally.

01:19:40.400 And, uh, I was doing fine at Syracuse.

01:19:42.500 I was applying myself, but I hadn't really considered future plans very much.

01:19:47.400 And a teacher I had, a professor I had, um, pulled me aside one day and said, and it was

01:19:53.880 actually right around, it was like right around when the Iraq war broke out, the first Iraq

01:19:57.360 war, the Gulf war.

01:19:58.480 Uh, and I remember he pulled me aside and I'd done a long piece, I think on that or the

01:20:02.880 international environment.

01:20:03.780 And he said, I assume grad school's in your future.

01:20:06.520 And literally to that point, I had not considered grad school at all.

01:20:10.360 I'm like, Oh, should it be?

01:20:12.100 Could I go to grad school?

01:20:13.200 Yeah, but maybe I'll go to grad school.

01:20:14.640 It could be something as small as that, right?

01:20:16.420 Like you just have somebody look at you with a different set of eyes and expectations.

01:20:22.820 And then that reflection you see back and, you know, it's bam, you know, you're off to

01:20:29.220 the races.

01:20:30.020 Um, all right, let me pause it there as I have much, much more with Coleman Hughes coming

01:20:33.600 up after this quick break, such a delight having him back on the subject of children and their

01:20:42.280 struggles as the mother of three of them.

01:20:44.520 And two of whom are boys.

01:20:46.260 I had a particular interest in your discussion with Richard Reeves, um, on September 20th,

01:20:51.800 who wrote the unique struggle of a man, right?

01:20:54.800 Is that, that's the title of his new book?

01:20:56.320 I think.

01:20:56.980 I think, uh, that that's a subtitle.

01:20:58.520 I think of boys and men is the boys and men.

01:21:01.020 Okay.

01:21:01.320 Yeah.

01:21:01.500 Yeah.

01:21:01.620 Yeah.

01:21:01.780 Um, right.

01:21:03.160 I'm trying to find, uh, boys and men, why the modern male is struggling.

01:21:06.140 And then it goes on to say that.

01:21:07.180 Okay.

01:21:07.780 So Richard Reeves, um, posits that the, that little boys and younger, younger boys are basically

01:21:17.120 being screwed over by a, by an age that is super focused on girls and women and their

01:21:22.120 empowerment and has completely misunderstood and ignored and then shamed young boys.

01:21:29.560 What did you learn from him that you thought was interesting?

01:21:32.280 So one of the most interesting things I learned from him was our education system is tilted

01:21:40.020 against boys.

01:21:41.780 Now, obviously 50, 60, 70 years ago, the problem with our education system is that we weren't

01:21:48.960 allowing girls to compete with the boys.

01:21:51.080 We, you know, there was this expectation that boys would go to college and women didn't have

01:21:55.080 to.

01:21:56.380 And in the effort to correct that, we have ended up over-correcting to the point where our

01:22:01.340 K through 12 and even college education system, uh, it is tilted to benefit girls rather than

01:22:08.500 boys.

01:22:08.900 So boys are much less likely to graduate high school.

01:22:12.240 Uh, they're less likely to enroll in colleges to the point where colleges have to practice

01:22:17.000 a kind of affirmative action to keep for men to keep a 50, 50 ratio.

01:22:21.900 Now, why is this happening?

01:22:23.740 The reason is the reason this is happening is because, um, the way our education system

01:22:29.640 is structured, we ask kids to sit still for six hours a day, uh, and look at the whiteboard

01:22:36.520 and regurgitate answers and, uh, be disciplined in a way that is easier for the average young

01:22:43.860 girl than it is for the average young boy.

01:22:45.840 The, the other part of this is that the vast majority of K through 12 school teachers are

01:22:51.340 women.

01:22:51.980 There are very few male teachers relative to, to feet, to female teachers and female teachers

01:22:58.400 are more likely to penalize, uh, the kind of behavior in a young boy that a male teacher

01:23:04.700 might, might recognize as, um, you know, boys being boys to use a phrase that, that, uh,

01:23:10.920 has been somewhat demonized.

01:23:13.000 So young boy, the young boys, they face a discipline structure that is skewed more towards

01:23:18.440 typical young girl behavior than typical young boy behavior.

01:23:23.160 And, uh, you, you know, another way you can see this is ADHD for every four boys diagnosed

01:23:29.620 with ADHD.

01:23:30.760 Only one girl is, is diet diagnosed with ADHD, which is an extraordinary ratio.

01:23:35.840 Uh, basically we're saying that a lot of typical young boy behavior,

01:23:40.680 like difficulty sitting still wanting to be active.

01:23:43.880 Uh, we're saying that that's a disorder that there's something wrong with that, that needs

01:23:48.540 to be medicated away.

01:23:51.340 And, uh, that's having downstream consequences for, for boys in the education system.

01:23:57.560 This is, um, this is one of the reasons why we chose to put our boys in an all boys school

01:24:02.060 and our daughter in an all girls school, because there are challenges on the, in the girls lane

01:24:06.720 too, historically, when it comes to, you know, girls are less likely to raise their hands

01:24:10.800 and math and science and so on.

01:24:12.940 But, but they merge, by the way, these two merge the, these schools that we're at in high

01:24:17.680 school, which I like to, at some point you got to be with the opposite sex and learn how

01:24:21.740 to navigate that.

01:24:22.820 But the boys, um, yeah, they're, they're antsy, especially the littles, you know, elementary

01:24:28.060 school, they are antsy.

01:24:29.700 And one of the things our all boys school does with the little guys is the first thing

01:24:34.640 they do is gym.

01:24:36.420 Like, that's brilliant, right?

01:24:38.300 They get there, they're in their seats, they've got the ants in their pants, they go, they

01:24:41.620 run them.

01:24:42.400 So then they can sit, you know, for a little while and then they have a different thing

01:24:45.360 later that's active and they, and they sit and they incorporate into some of the classes

01:24:49.260 like the teachers do fun, athletic games for the boys where I don't see that being done

01:24:55.780 in my girl's school.

01:24:56.940 Nor do I think all these girls need it as badly as the book, but like there is a different

01:25:00.600 approach.

01:25:01.480 And by the way, all of this underscores something you're not allowed to say anymore, but it

01:25:06.100 was a book that we read prior to making these selections, which is called why gender matters.

01:25:11.580 All of this underscores the fact that gender is real and it does matter.

01:25:16.940 Yeah.

01:25:17.540 Here's the other big point, uh, that, that Richard Reeves pointed out and all those, those

01:25:22.460 reasons for sending your kids to single gender schools make a lot of sense.

01:25:26.940 Another thing Richard points, points out that I think is common wisdom is that, uh, girls

01:25:32.380 mature faster than boys.

01:25:34.180 Um, I think most people that have kids have, have witnessed this, that an 11 year old girl

01:25:41.340 and an 11 year old boy on average, they're not at the same level of mental or emotional

01:25:46.240 maturity.

01:25:46.900 Um, and so, so what are the consequences of that fact?

01:25:52.340 Well, we start girls and boys at age five at the same level, doing the same homework,

01:25:58.920 expecting to show the same level of discipline.

01:26:01.840 And yet girls have an advantage because at any given age, they're likely on average to

01:26:07.620 be more mature, better able to sit still, better able to think long-term.

01:26:11.340 And, uh, that creates a natural imbalance.

01:26:14.840 Obviously men and women, uh, by the time we're 25 or so, our prefrontal cortexes have developed

01:26:21.860 and we're at the same level of maturity, but one gender gets there faster.

01:26:27.180 And we put a lot of weight on how good, how mature, uh, you know, uh, how disciplined you

01:26:34.200 are between the ages of zero to 18, which inherently advantages girls.

01:26:38.400 So Richard Reeves argues that we should quote red shirt, the boys, that boys should start

01:26:46.760 school a year later than girls on the grounds that on average, they mature more slowly.

01:26:50.880 So this is fascinating to me because we literally just had on Malcolm Gladwell.

01:26:56.100 He was here last week who is sorry that he, that his chapter in the book outliers has been

01:27:05.220 used as much as it has to red shirt kids based on different factors, not based on this gender

01:27:12.940 gap we're discussing, but based on, I want Johnny to be the star hockey player. And therefore,

01:27:19.400 if he has a birthday that's later in the year, I'm holding him back a year so that instead of being

01:27:25.720 the smallest, he'll be the biggest. And then it's led to this nuclear arms race where now,

01:27:30.680 even if, you know, Danny was born born in January of a year and therefore might be on pace to be the,

01:27:37.280 the biggest Danny's parents now hold him back. Cause Johnny just got a leg up. Cause now Johnny

01:27:42.980 comes in as a seven year old instead of a six year old. So they're like, Oh no, no, no. Danny's

01:27:46.800 going to be a huge seven year old. So he regrets not sort of making more clear in the, in the book

01:27:52.460 that he wasn't suggesting this. He was condemning this and doesn't really see this as a useful

01:27:58.160 thing. But Reeves is making a different point. He's saying it from an emotional maturity standpoint,

01:28:02.520 it makes sense to hold back your boy and not your girl. Well, he, well, he's making an even

01:28:08.140 bigger point, which is he's saying systematically we should, you know, kindergarten should start

01:28:14.100 at age six for boys in general. So I think he would get away, get, get out of that arms race issue

01:28:21.580 by making it a system wide thing. He might, he might. Yes. I guess that's right. It's an interesting

01:28:29.580 idea. Um, in any event, I think it's, it's, it's about time we started taking an honest look at our

01:28:37.080 boys. We've been so focused on our girls and that's good, but like they're half the population

01:28:41.800 and they're sweet. And who, if we just continue with this demoralizing and ruination of boys,

01:28:47.940 who are our girls going to marry? Who are they going to reproduce with? Who are they going to,

01:28:52.420 you know, just spend the rest of their lives with? Like, even if you only have girls, you need to

01:28:56.660 care about, care about this. Um, and I do think mothers of both girls and boys and dads too could

01:29:02.160 be particularly helpful in this. And the time we have left, can we spend a minute on crime?

01:29:06.760 We've talked about crime before, and I saw you tweet about this and I thought the same.

01:29:10.400 So New York city is having an epic meltdown when it comes to crime on the streets and so on.

01:29:14.300 Um, people are so fed up with even the new mayor and the soft on crime DA. And now we've got this

01:29:21.200 governor who clearly doesn't know what she's doing. She is not ready for prime time. She's,

01:29:24.980 she's been in massive disappointment in my view. Um, so she's got the subway problem solved.

01:29:30.780 Coleman, fear not. If you are one of the millions of New Yorkers who will not get on the New York

01:29:35.600 city subway. And I used to ride the subway, but I tell my friends who go in now, I'm like,

01:29:38.940 or tourists who I know are like friends who are like, I'm going to go visit. I'm like,

01:29:41.300 do not take the subway. Um, there's so much crime happening down there.

01:29:45.380 She's got the solution. She's going to put cameras down in the subways. Now I said to my

01:29:51.240 team, we were talking about this. Is anyone on the other side of the camera? You know,

01:29:56.000 even plugged in. Do we have any idea, but she thinks this is going to make people quote,

01:30:00.680 feel safe. What do you make of it? Well, what would make people feel safe

01:30:07.800 is if it were safe. Primarily, I think, um, you know, I, I ride the subway all the time. I've,

01:30:14.680 I've lived, I continue to ride, ride the subway all the time, but I will say as someone who's lived

01:30:19.720 in New York for eight years, I can say I've, I've never felt less safe than I have right now,

01:30:27.940 especially in, in, in neighborhoods at night neighborhoods that I would have described as

01:30:34.560 quite safe for most of my time in New York. Um, and you know, I had the luxury of like,

01:30:42.240 if push came to shove, I could, I could Uber places. Um, I, I probably don't have to take

01:30:48.540 the subway everywhere. Um, most people don't have that luxury. They have to walk the streets.

01:30:53.400 They have to take the subway and safety. To me, safety is the most important issue.

01:31:01.200 Like before the government tackles education, uh, inequality, any issue that you may care about,

01:31:11.140 the government's job is to keep you safe, right? What does it matter if, uh, you know,

01:31:17.240 you don't have as much money as your neighbor, if you can't guarantee you won't get mugged on the way

01:31:21.780 home? What, what does it matter if your kid's school is good, if they're not going to be safe

01:31:26.160 on the way there? Safety is, it, it is the first social justice issue before everything else.

01:31:32.800 So, um, you know, the, the, the, the dismissiveness that many people on the far left show towards

01:31:41.280 crime, that it's, it's all just, you know, a fantasy in our heads and, um, it's all just

01:31:47.700 old law and order rhetoric that is, you know, retrograde and racist that just has to, we,

01:31:55.040 we have to hammer that out of our consciousness as a society. Um, you know, crime is, it's the most

01:32:01.820 important social justice issue in, in my opinion. And it's something that we have to begin taking

01:32:08.660 seriously in all of our cities. Yeah. Well, I, so what I saw you tweeting about was this,

01:32:13.680 this video from the New York city subway in which a crime occurs, but a surprise hero enters the

01:32:22.380 scene. I'll play it for the YouTube audience and describe it for the listeners.

01:32:35.140 That's dancing. Oh, and then he steals, steals the money. He steals, he runs. And then guess who,

01:32:42.180 guess who gets him? Somebody wearing a, is it a, it's a Batman cape, isn't it?

01:32:47.460 Yeah. It's a Batman cape. Saves the day and gets the bad guy and gets the money back and returns it

01:32:55.100 to the guy with the guitar case open. Yay. But we don't have enough said guys.

01:33:00.920 Yeah. So obviously that, that video is staged and hilarious, but I think the reason it resonates so

01:33:06.580 much is because New Yorkers are feeling this crime wave. Like, let me tell you, for example,

01:33:12.860 I go to my local pharmacy to, you know, buy toothpaste and such over the past year or two.

01:33:21.140 Every time I go, there is new products behind class. Just it's to the point where I have to call

01:33:27.620 a staff member over to get almost any item in the grocery store, because there's so much shoplifting.

01:33:33.840 It's insane. And we really have to take it seriously.

01:33:37.400 It really is crazy. You're like, like everything deodorant is locked up and they say like ring

01:33:42.980 bell for a tenant. It's like, well, I just need the attendant to stay by my side for my entire

01:33:47.200 shopping trip. Like this isn't, this system does not work. Coleman Hughes, such a pleasure to see you.

01:33:52.460 Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me tomorrow. My pal, Melissa Francis will be here,

01:33:57.740 been wanting to talk about her incredible background and her story. And we'll do that for the first

01:34:03.800 time tomorrow. Uh, in the meantime, don't forget, go to megankelly.com. Sign up for my little email.

01:34:11.360 It comes on Fridays, summarizing the news of the week, give you some links to some pieces. If you

01:34:17.040 miss them on the show, I'll give you the update on strut. I'll give you one. That's not going to be

01:34:20.380 in the newsletter. There's a tree in my front lawn that produces weird little berries that are edible,

01:34:25.280 but not poisonous, but no, no human. We eat them, but strut will eat them. And we have to let them out

01:34:30.280 on the side lawn. Otherwise he'll be in the crate all day, right? This dog has to either be outside

01:34:34.300 or in a room supervised. So we let them outside. He's got the invisible fence and he eats these

01:34:38.340 berries all day long. So he wasn't dying. I figured it was okay. Well now every day when we wake up,

01:34:43.180 there's an enormous steamer waiting for us in his crate. And at the end of the day, there's vomit with

01:34:50.420 a bunch of hard berries in it. And if you can't get to the vomit where strut does, well, let's just say

01:34:55.900 it goes down second time around more tomorrow. See you then.

01:35:03.340 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 22, 2022

Truth About Ashley Biden's Diary, and the State of Men, with Ryan Grim, Joel Pollak, and Coleman Hughes ｜ Ep. 396

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