The Megyn Kelly Show - Truth About Kirk Investigation and Robinson Trial, Iran Questions, with Curt Mills, and Josh Duhamel on Keeping Politics Out of Hollywood ｜ Ep. 1281

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00:00:30.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.320 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We've got a big show for you

00:00:46.340 today. Savannah Guthrie is speaking out in her first interview since her mother went missing.

00:00:51.620 Where's the lady? We never found the lady. Plus, actor Josh Duhamel will be here,

00:00:58.220 And that'll be interesting for us. But first, we've got to tell you more about the shocking and senseless murder of 18-year-old Loyola University Chicago student Sheridan Gorman, this poor girl.

00:01:09.660 It happened after 1 a.m. last Thursday while she was out with friends. And unlike the left and corporate media, we have to discuss the alleged culprit, 25-year-old Jose Medina, an illegal immigrant from Venezuela.

00:01:21.880 By the way, we have a big follow up for you on that terrible older woman who said, I'm wrong place, wrong time. 0.81

00:01:28.400 This guy chased her, chased her at 1 a.m. in the morning, wearing a mask, a black mask and shot her in the back.

00:01:36.660 Oh, it's a wrong place, wrong time thing.

00:01:38.920 That's what you say when like you you took a Ferris wheel that broke and you were badly injured.

00:01:48.680 That's wrong place, wrong time where you like got hit by lightning.

00:01:51.880 wrong place, wrong time. This was a girl living her life like every normal 18 year old in America 1.00

00:01:58.840 who got targeted by an illegal for assassination, who chased her. He clearly wanted her dead for

00:02:05.300 no apparent reason. It is not a wrong place, wrong time. And we were all over that older

00:02:10.620 woman yesterday. We'll tell you what happened in a second. The guy was apprehended by Biden's

00:02:16.740 Border Patrol in May of 2023, but then released into the country. This is not an anomaly. That's

00:02:22.860 what Biden did throughout his term as president. Most of them were just let in. If you got

00:02:28.160 apprehended by Border Patrol, then they just turned you around and said, oh, OK, here's your

00:02:32.060 court date. And no one ever shows up for their court date ever. The very next month, he was

00:02:37.000 arrested for shoplifting at a Macy's in Chicago, which should have led to a phone call by the

00:02:43.860 chicago pd to ice saying yo we haven't found an illegal here and we caught him for shoplifting

00:02:50.640 but we're going to turn him back out because we don't prosecute crime in chicago and you should

00:02:54.740 you might be interested in picking him up but chicago is a sanctuary city and illinois is a

00:02:59.440 sanctuary state which means they don't cooperate with ice they won't call even if there's an ice

00:03:05.120 detainer on somebody where they know ice is saying please hold the guy which wasn't the case here but

00:03:09.840 even if that is the case, they don't call. They say F off, pound sand. No. So needless to say,

00:03:15.840 when he got pinched for a shoplifting arrest, Chicago PD did not call the feds. Not that under

00:03:21.680 Joe Biden, the feds would have done anything. It was the feds that released him to begin with.

00:03:25.620 So he was released from local custody and a warrant was eventually issued after he failed

00:03:31.380 to appear in court, according to ABC7 Chicago. So what we have here is multiple acts already

00:03:37.680 of lawlessness. He came into the country illegally. He then shoplifted. He then didn't

00:03:45.360 show up for his court date and an arrest warrant was issued for him. And now he's killed somebody,

00:03:52.560 not just any somebody, but a beautiful 18-year-old girl with her entire life in front of her just

00:03:58.540 trying to get an education in Chicago. He's been charged with first-degree murder, that's the right

00:04:03.120 charge and other felonies over Sheridan Gorman's murder. He missed his detention hearing Monday.

00:04:11.400 This time, it's a pattern for him. It's allegedly because he has tuberculosis and is in the hospital.

00:04:19.380 I don't know what to root for. You know, it's like, do we root for the tuberculosis to get him?

00:04:25.420 There's no chance he has health insurance. I'm sure we're giving him treatment on the taxpayer

00:04:31.340 or dime in Chicago? Or do we root for him to get well again so that he can be tried, found guilty

00:04:37.640 of murder, and hopefully be behind bars for the rest of his life, which will be justice, I suppose,

00:04:43.480 as close as we can get, but will do nobody any good. It doesn't bring Sheridan Gorman back. It

00:04:48.600 doesn't ease her mother Jessica's pain. It maybe prevents the next girl from getting murdered by 1.00

00:04:55.060 this fucker who never should have been here to begin with. Forgive me. Now, yesterday, we told 1.00

00:05:00.840 you about this Chicago alderwoman, Maria Haddon. She represents the district where this murder

00:05:05.940 occurred. Now, you would think your first reaction if you represented the district would be, oh, my

00:05:10.440 God, I'm so sorry. Let me at least walk you through the multiple efforts I've done to make my district

00:05:15.680 safer. That wasn't it. We played you a clip from her interview with Fox 32 Chicago last week. We

00:05:22.140 played it yesterday. She gave the interview last week. Sheridan was murdered on Thursday,

00:05:25.920 where she said of Sheridan's murder, quote, it sounds like this might have been a wrong place,

00:05:29.700 wrong time running into a person who had a gun. All lies. I mean, like literally all lies.

00:05:36.340 As we promised you yesterday, we called her office. We did indeed call to find out if she

00:05:43.040 had anything to add. After we now know from the criminal complaint that Sheridan was shot in the

00:05:50.300 back while fleeing, not just from any random person, but from an illegal immigrant who was

00:05:57.960 dressed in all black and wearing a black mask. Wearing a black mask doesn't sound like he was

00:06:03.460 exactly up to any good that night on the pier along Lake Michigan as young Americans were

00:06:12.300 minding their own business, celebrating life. This guy sitting there with his tuberculosis

00:06:19.860 and dressed in all black with a loaded revolver

00:06:25.160 and wearing a mask, obviously covering his face.

00:06:29.760 And then for no reason,

00:06:31.640 there was no report of an altercation,

00:06:33.700 of a teasing, of anything.

00:06:37.060 Not that any of that would justify this,

00:06:38.680 but I'm just saying there doesn't appear

00:06:40.120 to have been any trigger other than

00:06:41.780 he saw a gorgeous young female American 1.00

00:06:46.200 and decided to take her life.

00:06:48.280 And she ran.

00:06:49.240 she knew she was in danger. She ran and he chased her and shot her in the back like a disgusting 0.99

00:06:55.840 pig coward. Well, the Alderwoman, wrong place, wrong time. Her office didn't answer. And guess 1.00

00:07:04.020 what? Her voicemail was full. We called many times. Then we sent her office an email and

00:07:09.920 got no response. But just a few hours after that, Alderwoman Hadden releasing a statement on

00:07:17.340 Facebook. Yeah, because now that the national media is after her, she realizes she's got skin

00:07:23.960 in the game. She did finally apologize for her wrong place, wrong time remarks. Her statement

00:07:31.580 reads in part, quote, my comments were never intended to blame the victim or to imply that

00:07:36.120 Sheridan should not have been out enjoying the park or that it was her fault she was shot.

00:07:39.580 I sincerely apologize for any additional pain my comments may have caused. However,

00:07:44.940 she once again fell down on the messaging. First of all, she made no mention of Medina's name

00:07:52.280 because he has to be protected, you see, unlike what he did to Sheridan. He gets protected.

00:07:59.320 Or that he is an illegal immigrant, only writing, quote, the person who shot Sheridan

00:08:06.200 is the only one responsible for her death. What person might that be, alder woman? 1.00

00:08:11.260 the illegal Jose Medina? You don't want to say it because what? It projects Hispanic? People might 1.00

00:08:19.600 know he's from Venezuela and here unlawfully, thanks to sanctuary city policies, you prefer 0.99

00:08:27.140 and promote? She referred to him only as the masked man, the suspect, and the person never

00:08:34.800 saying his name or that he was here illegally. She said the community is grieving a life cut

00:08:40.540 short by gun violence. Yes, this is about the gun. Leave it to a progressive in Chicago to

00:08:48.860 always make it about the gun. Same thing on the South side of Chicago. It's just gun violence. 0.64

00:08:53.480 If we can get rid of the guns, the gang members over there killing each other, not allowing 12

00:08:59.180 year old boys to grow up, it would all stop. Has nothing to do with the thug gang mentality

00:09:06.260 that we've cultivated and allowed there for decades now.

00:09:10.140 And this guy, you know, had he not had access to a gun, she'd be alive. 0.80

00:09:14.980 He seemed pretty determined to kill her.

00:09:17.320 I'm going to guess that if Medina had a knife on him, Sheridan would still be dead. 1.00

00:09:24.240 This isn't about gun violence, you asshole. 1.00

00:09:28.160 And by the way, grieving a life caught short by gun violence. 1.00

00:09:30.920 Yes, by whom?

00:09:32.220 Thanks to whom?

00:09:33.240 You missed that in your statement.

00:09:36.260 And Haddon, also appearing to take a shot at yours truly and others in what she calls conservative media, writing, quote, the fact that some media outlets are intentionally creating soundbites to misconstrue my words during this tragedy is also unfortunate.

00:09:53.740 It is unfortunate for you, and it's thanks to your own behavior.

00:09:57.460 You have yourself to blame, madam. 0.92

00:09:59.760 She actually tries then to claim that she was taken out of context with her wrong place,

00:10:06.040 wrong time comment.

00:10:07.120 See, now, let me tell you something, sister.

00:10:09.380 This is where things go really off the rails.

00:10:11.840 Because when you apologize for something, you say you're sorry, and then you S-T-F-U.

00:10:18.080 You don't then try to say, I'm deeply, deeply sorry, but I was taken out of context.

00:10:23.180 But people are wrongfully spinning my words.

00:10:26.340 Then why are you sorry?

00:10:28.060 Why would you be sorry?

00:10:28.980 if you've been taken out of context,

00:10:30.820 if it's the media's fault.

00:10:32.720 That's a me problem, if that's what's happening.

00:10:34.780 That's not a you problem.

00:10:35.580 Why would you apologize?

00:10:37.900 Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

00:10:40.420 Either you did something wrong or I did something wrong.

00:10:43.780 And I'm here to tell you, older woman,

00:10:45.900 I did nothing wrong.

00:10:47.880 I have you dead to rights.

00:10:49.460 And now your attempt to wiggle 1.00

00:10:51.360 on your inane, disgusting comment is failing 1.00

00:10:55.040 because unlike most other media, 0.99

00:10:57.280 We actually do our homework here on the show. 0.99

00:10:59.240 We went back and took a look at the entire interview, and you are screwed because you're lying to cover up your insensitivity. 0.97

00:11:07.720 I'm going to quote her statement directly, okay? 0.98

00:11:09.980 This is part of her alleged apology to try to get out of the culpability for saying wrong place, wrong time.

00:11:15.700 She said, the interviewer—this is on the Facebook post last night.

00:11:19.860 The interviewer asked me whether Sheridan was targeted by the shooter and whether this was related to the duck walk killer who terrorized our community in 2018.

00:11:34.040 I replied, no, that this seemed to be a senseless wrong place, wrong time tragedy, unquote.

00:11:41.800 Well, we pulled the tape and we didn't hear anything from Haddon or Fox 32 Chicago's Anita Blanton about a duck walk killer.

00:11:53.380 Here is the full exchange from last Thursday where Haddon made the wrong place, wrong time comment.

00:11:59.820 Watch.

00:12:00.740 We found out like, OK, this is a masked individual that pops out while she's with a group of her friends.

00:12:08.540 should other people be concerned about their safety right now or do we think that this is a

00:12:14.640 targeted um incident so from from what from what i've been told so far right from what police know

00:12:22.220 from from speaking to the students who were with her um it seems she might have that as they were

00:12:30.740 just out you know people go out to the beach all the time right and they go out on the pier they

00:12:34.740 walk around so that the kids were out doing normal normal things people do in the neighborhood

00:12:38.980 and it sounds like this might have been a wrong place wrong time running into a person who had

00:12:45.000 a gun they might have startled this person at the end of the pier unintentionally um uh but that's

00:12:51.760 that's all we know so it it from what i've been told um what police investigation has turned up

00:12:58.600 so far what they've been able to share with me and with loyola university we don't believe there

00:13:04.080 cause for broader community concern at this time. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing was teed up

00:13:11.420 by that reporter or anybody else about the duck walk killer and whether this is part of a serial

00:13:16.060 killer thing that happened back in 2018. Nothing. You're fucking lying. Just own it. And that

00:13:22.480 bullshit about she might have startled, you're just making shit up. He was there lying in wait 1.00

00:13:27.260 with a gun dressed in black and a mask and chased her and shot her in the back. Stop trying to 0.97

00:13:33.480 minimize it. You are hashtag part of the problem, madam. She doesn't care. She doesn't. 1.00

00:13:40.940 We read you her resume yesterday. This is like a DEI obsessed leftist progressive. I guarantee you

00:13:48.700 if Sheridan Gorman were black, her messaging would be entirely different. She's going back

00:13:53.960 to her priors because the perp here is a Hispanic from Venezuela and the dead American is a young,

00:14:00.500 beautiful white girl from Westchester, New York, from Yorktown Heights. Screw you, 1.00

00:14:06.300 Alderwoman. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Along with Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, 1.00

00:14:10.540 a Democrat who has been no better. We told you yesterday about his statement where he

00:14:15.180 also failed to acknowledge that the accused killer happens to be in the country illegally.

00:14:20.660 Does anyone think that's relevant? Does anyone think it might be worth a mention

00:14:24.920 to point out that this guy was an illegal. And then Pritzker was asked about his message

00:14:31.460 to Sheridan's parents. Okay. Cause he decided to offer some empathy. Thanks so much

00:14:36.780 for her parents and to blame Donald Trump. What do you say to Sheridan's parents,

00:14:44.600 Tom and Jessica Gorman, when they blame policies, including those in Illinois for their daughter's

00:14:49.600 Well, this has been a terrible tragedy, and I know that the Gorman family has suffered mightily.

00:14:56.020 I agree, there have been real failures.

00:14:58.760 Those failures, of course, extend beyond the borders of Illinois.

00:15:03.240 It's their national failures, a failure to have comprehensive immigration reform, 0.98

00:15:07.940 a failure of the president to follow his own edict to go after the worst of the worst.

00:15:14.020 And in my view, we have a lot of work that we need to continue to do.

00:15:18.820 But it is the job of the federal government to go after immigration enforcement.

00:15:26.960 The nerve.

00:15:29.700 The absolute gall.

00:15:33.340 To blame the absence of comprehensive immigration reform.

00:15:39.060 Not a word about Joe Biden.

00:15:41.020 The guy came in under Biden in 2023. 0.98

00:15:43.400 Not a damn word. 0.96

00:15:45.420 It's about Trump and the absence of comprehensive immigration reform. 0.96

00:15:50.980 And then at the end, Trump and his policies.

00:15:56.620 Not only did Trump, of course, obviously, run on reversing Biden's open border, which he did, and on deporting all the illegals.

00:16:06.100 But then he tried.

00:16:07.720 Trump tried.

00:16:09.460 He tried sending ICE to Chicago.

00:16:12.700 not any place in Illinois, to Chicago. And the reason that didn't work out is because of that

00:16:18.160 man, Governor Pritzker. Had this man allowed Trump to send ICE into Chicago to clean up Joe

00:16:28.220 Biden's illegal immigration problem, Sheridan Gorman might still be alive. The reason Trump

00:16:34.060 was stopped from doing that is that fat bastard. It was Governor Pritzker who stopped it. 1.00

00:16:40.260 In fact, in the last few months, his attacks on Trump's immigration policies have been non-stop.

00:16:50.360 Here's just a small sample.

00:16:52.580 What President Trump is doing is unprecedented and unwarranted.

00:16:57.660 It is unconstitutional.

00:17:00.160 It is un-American. 0.86

00:17:02.220 Find a family who's enjoying today sitting on their front porch and ask if they want their neighborhoods turned into a war zone by a wannabe dictator.

00:17:13.180 Our small businesses suffer when our residents and visitors who are shopping and eating are made to feel unsafe by the jackbooted thugs roaming around a peaceful downtown.

00:17:22.580 Make sure that you understand that the ICE officials don't have a right to knock down doors and to take people away.

00:17:29.700 We're thinking of you and doing everything we can to protect you.

00:17:32.820 So this is dangerous.

00:17:34.160 They shouldn't be doing it.

00:17:35.320 It's anti-American.

00:17:36.460 It's un-American. 0.82

00:17:37.360 It's an attack on the American people by the president of the United States.

00:17:41.000 ICE needs to take it down about three notches.

00:17:44.680 ICE is a bunch of untrained and unqualified people. 0.96

00:17:47.560 It's like it's become some sort of secret police force for Donald Trump.

00:17:51.420 He actually had the nerve, notwithstanding that, to say this is a failure.

00:17:55.540 This was happened. This happened because of Trump's failure to go after the worst of the worst.

00:18:01.760 Oh, my God. He fought him in the media. He fought him in the courts.

00:18:07.420 He did everything within his power to get Trump and ICE out of Illinois and out of Chicago in particular.

00:18:15.920 And by the way, this guy Medina would not have been on the list of the worst of the worst because all he had prior to this was a shoplifting arrest.

00:18:25.420 Even under Tom Homan's protocol, that would not qualify.

00:18:31.440 It's unbelievable the nerve of this guy to actually try to blame this on Donald Trump.

00:18:36.700 I like I'm stunned.

00:18:37.860 I guess I shouldn't be.

00:18:38.960 I should be more cynical by this point in my news career.

00:18:42.020 I just it's stomach turning.

00:18:43.680 A girl is dead.

00:18:44.700 Take some responsibility.

00:18:46.040 Change your policy.

00:18:46.780 Do something.

00:18:48.460 Do something resembling anything to keep your citizens, the Americans safe.

00:18:55.120 This isn't even touching on his refusal to fight crime in his state.

00:19:01.820 Never mind the disgusting Chicago mayor who's 10 times worse than either this alder woman or the governor, if that's even possible. 1.00

00:19:08.860 But Pritzker wants a national future right now.

00:19:11.900 Pritzker wants to be the Democratic nominee.

00:19:15.240 There are some Democrats running.

00:19:16.740 There's not one I would vote for.

00:19:18.080 But there are some Democrats running, I'm sure, who are like decent people who have just diametrically opposed political views to those of my own and maybe many of yours.

00:19:27.900 But this this level of dishonesty, gaslighting, refusals to take responsibility when you're watching young 18 year old American girls get shot to death is beyond effed up.

00:19:38.120 Like, this is incredibly cynical and dark and really exposes a depraved moral character, a depraved moral character.

00:19:48.440 And are we surprised? 0.55

00:19:49.480 This is the same family that's been shoving the transgender ideology on our kids in schools for years now, for decades now. 1.00

00:19:57.700 That's his family, the Pritzkers. 0.99

00:19:59.720 There's something sick about them.

00:20:02.380 Literally, they don't care about the health and wellness of American children.

00:20:06.320 Whether it's an 18-year-old girl named Sheridan Gorman or your children going to their schools, not wanting to be transitioned by teachers with an agenda without the inclusion of parents on even the notion that there is gender confusion by a child.

00:20:23.980 This is like the Pritzkers are villains, in my view.

00:20:28.080 This is an evil family.

00:20:31.020 He's not the only Democrat with an extreme position on immigration.

00:20:34.600 That, you know.

00:20:36.320 Here's House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries saying he still, still doesn't know whether Medina should be deported.

00:20:46.900 And he appears to know nothing about this case.

00:20:51.280 An illegal immigrant has been charged with murdering a college student in Chicago last week.

00:20:55.920 Do House Democrats believe if he's convicted, he's someone who should be deported?

00:20:59.620 I'll look into the case.

00:21:01.700 He doesn't know anything.

00:21:03.460 I bet he knows who Alex Freddie is.

00:21:06.320 I bet he knows the name Renee Good. 0.96

00:21:09.200 Does he know the name Rachel Morin?

00:21:11.960 Do you think he knows that name?

00:21:14.960 You know, he might know Lakin Riley by this point,

00:21:18.200 since we have an act named after her, an actual law.

00:21:21.760 Do you think he knows Jocelyn Nungari?

00:21:23.360 Do you think he keeps up to date on the latest young American girl 1.00

00:21:28.460 shot to death by an illegal that his party allowed into this country? 0.92

00:21:34.260 It was a very easy question.

00:21:36.320 A young American teenager was murdered, and he's not sure that if the suspect is convicted, he should be deported.

00:21:44.060 It should be the easiest yes of his political career.

00:21:49.040 Like, aren't you somewhat politically savvy?

00:21:51.160 Isn't that how you become the House Minority Leader like Hakeem Jeffries?

00:21:56.080 But that's him pandering to his Democrat base.

00:22:00.580 The pander is to never attack an illegal, right?

00:22:04.320 You don't.

00:22:04.960 Why would you do that?

00:22:06.020 We're on the side of the illegals over on Team Blue. 0.90

00:22:08.620 Definitely the answer is, I don't know.

00:22:10.320 At a minimum, it's, I don't know.

00:22:11.260 It's definitely not, yes, I want him gone.

00:22:13.140 My God, why would you say that?

00:22:14.180 That's political suicide on the left.

00:22:17.760 The heartlessness with which this is happening

00:22:21.460 and being handled is stomach turning.

00:22:26.000 And there should be accountability for them

00:22:27.660 at the ballot box and on the phone lines right now.

00:22:31.960 I mean, honestly, to me, it's, you know, we're going to talk about the Iran war later.

00:22:39.060 It's not good.

00:22:40.440 Trump's approval ratings are in a free fall.

00:22:43.080 He's losing double digits, young men, independents, and so on.

00:22:47.560 You still have, of course, you have to vote Republican.

00:22:50.380 I'm sorry.

00:22:50.900 Like, I don't care how mad you are at the Republican Party.

00:22:53.600 This is what you get death on the American streets if you vote Democrat.

00:22:58.860 I'm sorry. 0.90

00:22:59.680 If the Democrats weren't so insane, if it were like your granddad's Republican Party or Democrat Party, maybe, maybe. 0.89

00:23:07.400 But they don't care. 0.95

00:23:10.960 They're the ones who caused it.

00:23:12.000 They opened the borders without a thought for what it would do.

00:23:15.400 And now that it's catching up with them, that's what you get from Hakeem Jeffries.

00:23:19.240 I don't know.

00:23:19.620 I'll look into it. 0.99

00:23:20.380 Who the fuck is Sheridan Gorman? 0.99

00:23:21.700 It's really what he's saying. 1.00

00:23:23.760 I find this disgusting.

00:23:26.180 And who was it, you guys?

00:23:27.240 we have, there's a soundbite who is like, oh, it was Chris Murphy. Do we have that cut,

00:23:34.720 Chris Murphy? It's a soundbite that's circulated in 2024. He's from my new home state, Connecticut.

00:23:42.620 So he said this in 2024, but it's getting recirculated now. This is just, this is the

00:23:48.520 perfect evidence of the leftist attitude on this issue. Listen to this.

00:23:53.160 Well, I mean, Chris, that's been a failed play for 20 years. So you are right that that has

00:23:58.580 been the Democratic strategy for 30 years, maybe. And it has failed to deliver for the people we

00:24:05.480 care about most, the undocumented Americans that are in this country. Undocumented Americans are

00:24:14.180 the people we care about most. There is so much that's wrong with that. He won't say illegal,

00:24:20.060 won't say illegal alien or illegal immigrant, an undocumented American. No, Senator.

00:24:27.440 The problem is they're not American. There's no such thing as an undocumented American.

00:24:34.540 If you are an American, you are documented. You have a birth certificate, probably a passport

00:24:40.580 and a driver's license proving that you are an American. That undocumented American is not a 1.00

00:24:46.960 thing. And what you're really trying to say is a nicer, dressed up, fake, lying term for illegal 0.69

00:24:53.600 immigrant. And those are not the people you should care about most. As one of your constituents, 1.00

00:24:59.740 Senator, I urge you to care about my children and the other children of Connecticut more than you

00:25:07.000 care about the, quote, undocumented. I demand that you take steps to protect the Americans,

00:25:14.620 actual Americans who live in this state and in all this country before you sing to us about the

00:25:22.580 people you care the most, the undocumented. What the F? It's exactly that attitude that got Sheridan 1.00

00:25:30.540 Gorman killed that made people like Chris Murphy not object to Joe Biden's open border. Governor

00:25:35.940 Pritzker fight tooth and nail to keep ice out of Chicago and Illinois where they might have caught

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00:26:58.500 There's a lot happening in the news right now. And of course, since Trump's attentions are

00:27:01.720 international, so are most of the news media. But this is an important story.

00:27:06.920 This is an, it's just the latest in an ongoing dark saga.

00:27:14.040 And let's just be honest of, in too many cases, young American girls getting killed by these

00:27:22.480 monsters.

00:27:24.040 It's not all girls.

00:27:25.280 Of course, we did a long piece on YouTube, which is still up there.

00:27:29.540 I urge you to go look at it, highlighting some of the men too, the men and the women

00:27:32.920 and the young ones who have been killed in America by these illegals. 0.91

00:27:36.060 Oftentimes it's police officers who are just trying to do their jobs.

00:27:40.300 Oftentimes it's innocents, all stripes and sizes, who get killed by drunk driver illegals. 1.00

00:27:49.300 But the ones who get attacked on the street tend to be young American girls. 1.00

00:27:54.900 Girls like 12-year-old Jocelyn Nungare, who was sexually assaulted by two of them before they threw her over a bridge in Texas.

00:28:03.540 Girls like that. 1.00

00:28:04.260 um i refuse to stop calling attention to this i told you yesterday that

00:28:12.500 sheridan's mom jessica we found out is one of our megan kelly show community members she's one of us

00:28:19.180 she's one of us she's she sat here day by day just like you guys do and god bless you and thank you

00:28:25.160 and watch this show and supported it and learned from it and participated in it and actually went

00:28:31.880 so far as to show up at our White Plains tour stop in the fall, dressed in her red, white, and blue.

00:28:38.780 She and her sister and her friend wearing the Charlie Kirk Freedom t-shirt. And that day,

00:28:45.700 just like all the rest of the days, especially in the fall, we were all mourning the loss of

00:28:50.840 Charlie. And clearly she and her family and friends felt it too, in their Freedom shirts

00:28:56.820 and their stars and stripes.

00:29:00.700 Her love of this country ought to be sustained and verified,

00:29:03.800 and we ought to be worthy of it,

00:29:05.880 and we ought to elect leaders who are worthy of it.

00:29:10.200 Hakeem Jeffries, you're not it.

00:29:11.680 Chris Murphy, not you either. 0.99

00:29:14.080 Governor J.B. Pritzker, you are despicable. 1.00

00:29:18.700 Despicable. 0.99

00:29:20.820 Okay, I want to turn the page.

00:29:23.320 I want to just talk about this one story before we bring on.

00:29:25.880 a guy I've been wanting to talk to over a long time. His name is Kurt Mills. He runs the American

00:29:31.060 Conservative, which is a publication that's all about being a conservative. But they're more

00:29:37.600 non-interventionalists, so he's got some views we want to discuss. But before we get to that,

00:29:42.820 something extraordinary happened yesterday with many friends of this show about Charlie Kirk.

00:29:49.260 You know, not even indirectly, pretty directly. Michael Schellenberger, you know him. He comes

00:29:54.900 on all the time. Love him. Great reporter. He interviewed Joe Kent, the now former counterterrorism

00:30:00.760 chief who quit over the Iran war and has been making the media rounds, including on this show

00:30:06.200 last Friday. And Schellenberger zeroed in with Joe Kent on Joe's suggestion that the Charlie Kirk

00:30:15.020 investigation has been mishandled by the feds. It's in the hands of the Utah state authorities

00:30:19.660 now, but the FBI was very much involved in this. And he suggested to me, to Tucker, to others,

00:30:27.040 that there were potential international connections to Charlie's murder

00:30:32.980 around Tyler Robinson, in tandem with Tyler Robinson, unclear. He's not saying Tyler did

00:30:40.460 not pull the trigger. That were not adequately investigated, in his view. We talked in part

00:30:46.860 about a group chat that Charlie was part of prior to his death

00:30:51.560 in which he lamented what was happening

00:30:55.160 with the pressures being put on him by Jewish donors.

00:30:59.240 He was angry.

00:31:00.500 He wanted to stop.

00:31:01.940 And he made clear that he was considering giving back donations

00:31:05.860 he had received from Jewish donors

00:31:08.380 because he was so sick of being pressured

00:31:11.240 not to have people like Candace at his events,

00:31:13.960 not to platform people like Tucker.

00:31:15.860 And here is in part what was written in the texts that Joe has been discussing, Joe Kent, and that we now know were provided to Joe Kent by Andrew Colvett of Turning Point after Charlie's death.

00:31:29.540 Because Andrew thought as well, this may suggest an Israeli link to Charlie's death, and I ought to tell the FBI about it, or in this case, the feds.

00:31:39.580 I happen to know that Andrew sent this text chain, not just to Joe Kent, but to one other fed.

00:31:45.020 So, you know, those of you who are like, that must mean Joe Kent is the leaker because it got leaked to Candace Owens.

00:31:51.240 Not necessarily.

00:31:52.600 It could have been somebody who worked for Joe Kent.

00:31:54.520 It could have been Joe Kent.

00:31:55.300 He denied it.

00:31:56.100 And it could have been this other Fed who Andrew provided the text chain to.

00:32:00.420 But here's what Charlie wrote.

00:32:01.600 This is 48 hours before he died.

00:32:03.620 Just lost another huge Jewish donor.

00:32:06.020 Two million a year because we won't cancel Tucker.

00:32:08.520 I'm thinking of inviting Candace.

00:32:10.820 Ugh.

00:32:11.900 Then Charlie writes, Jewish donors play into all the stereotypes.

00:32:16.160 I cannot and will not be bullied like this, leaving me no choice but to leave the pro-Israel 0.57

00:32:22.140 cause.

00:32:23.560 And then the person he's corresponding with says, please don't invite Candace.

00:32:26.420 That might feel good short term, but it's not good long term in my opinion.

00:32:30.120 Like all groups, you're going to get a wide variety of opinions that that nasty free will

00:32:35.600 thing that God bestowed on us makes life frustrating at times and goes on.

00:32:40.200 Okay, so this was turned over to the feds investigating Charlie's death.

00:32:43.940 And in Joe Kent's view, the possibility of an Israeli connection of some sort, whether

00:32:48.640 a domestic or an actual international, like an Israeli, an actual Israeli, was not adequately

00:32:55.380 looked into.

00:32:57.340 And I happen to know that there is at least one other lead on that front, which I'm not

00:33:02.600 at liberty to divulge because it was given to me off the record and you cannot report

00:33:07.060 off the record information.

00:33:08.640 That's all I'm going to say about it.

00:33:10.060 I have worked for a long, long time to get it on the record, and I cannot get the permission.

00:33:14.040 That's fine.

00:33:14.680 But I am guessing—I've never spoken to Joe Kent privately.

00:33:17.820 None of my information comes from him.

00:33:19.620 But I am guessing that Joe Kent knows of this thing that does raise questions about Israelis.

00:33:26.800 Again, not to impugn Israelis at all.

00:33:28.820 I'm just saying it's not completely made up out of whole cloth.

00:33:32.440 There was at least one other suggestion that should have been run down.

00:33:36.960 That's all I'm going to say.

00:33:38.360 I don't believe the Israelis killed Charlie. I think it was Tyler Robinson. I think if he had help, it was by Trans Tifa. But I don't begrudge anyone asking these questions because I've read the Charlie text chain and I know some other things.

00:33:54.680 And I just think it's prudent.

00:33:56.500 It's prudent given how important Charlie was to the conservative movement and to the Israel issue and his evolving state of mind on the issue, which was a threat to Israel and those who support it, you know, politically, I mean, that you would have to look into that.

00:34:14.440 You would.

00:34:15.020 He was assassinated by somebody.

00:34:17.200 So in any event, Joe Kent believes that too.

00:34:21.000 And Schellenberger asked him about whether now he's made himself a potential witness for the defense, meaning Tyler Robinson, at Tyler's eventual trial for Charlie's murder.

00:34:37.140 Listen here.

00:34:38.420 I mean, have you thought about that that Robinson's defense attorneys may, you know, call you to be a witness?

00:34:46.920 Yeah, no, I've considered it.

00:34:48.920 I understand.

00:34:49.260 I think it's just a lot of people that look at Tyler Robinson and go, this is not shocking at all.

00:34:54.600 There's no there's nothing missing from this.

00:34:57.240 There's no there's no evidence that he had accomplices.

00:35:02.320 And now you're just kind of speculating.

00:35:06.000 And and but more than because of who you are, that that could actually end up derailing the prosecution of the guy that murdered Charlie Kirk.

00:35:16.360 Yeah, I'm sure that's fair criticism.

00:35:17.820 uh i i just i from from my vantage point i i don't see i did not see i should say i did not

00:35:26.860 see the the investigation being thoroughly done i i don't think what i'm gonna say is gonna knock

00:35:32.460 the uh the defensive socks off or the juries so i am confident in in what i know and what i'm saying

00:35:39.360 and if i end up having to go play that role then you know i'll do it but it seems to me that

00:35:47.760 But, you know, your testimony, you know, will be incredibly important to the Robinson defense.

00:35:54.100 Yeah, I mean, then honestly, so be it if it gets us to the truth.

00:35:58.640 So he says he has no desire to testify for the defense in this prosecution.

00:36:02.900 But if called to talk about what he knows in terms of whether the feds investigated this or not, he'll do it.

00:36:11.460 Now, I just want to follow up with we asked Joe Kent when he was on about this issue.

00:36:17.760 because the FBI was investigating this case

00:36:20.560 along with the Utah authorities

00:36:21.960 and kind of asked him what he had to do with it.

00:36:26.020 Why was the National Counterterrorism Center involved?

00:36:28.780 Because what happened was

00:36:29.980 he apparently looked at some FBI file

00:36:32.200 and got his hand slapped by Kash Patel, reportedly,

00:36:34.860 who didn't want him butting in,

00:36:36.840 like a turf war kind of thing.

00:36:38.460 And I asked him about that.

00:36:40.080 Here's a little bit of that exchange

00:36:41.240 when he sat down with me less than a week ago

00:36:43.340 and sought 25B.

00:36:46.400 Would that have been your job, Joe, to consider that piece or Kash Patel's?

00:36:52.120 A combination.

00:36:53.300 But if there is foreign involvement, that's where the National Counterterrorism Center comes in.

00:36:57.820 Because we have more robust and broad authorities to investigate the foreign angle,

00:37:02.520 the FBI has the more broad and robust authorities to investigate the domestic angle.

00:37:07.980 So who has the ability to shut you down from that?

00:37:10.080 so really the way it happened was initially it was just like hey the FBI says you guys can't

00:37:15.880 look into the case file and when the case file is kind of where all the data is and uh you're done

00:37:20.340 you guys can't work here anymore you guys can't work on this case anymore um we argued that we

00:37:25.340 should still be involved in that case and we won the argument we got kind of put back on

00:37:29.620 the case um but then after a while uh the government has a great way of making things

00:37:35.200 just die in process. And so essentially all of our requests, our ability to investigate,

00:37:40.360 it was cut off. Our requests to investigate were kind of taken away and sort of died in the process.

00:37:46.660 So you get it. It would have been his job to investigate the international connection, if any,

00:37:51.980 and Kash Patel's job to investigate what was happening domestically. And he felt that there

00:37:58.480 was a bit of a turf war going on and that they were slow rolled right out of the case, even once

00:38:02.480 they'd been restored as having permission to look into it, that the government has a way of making

00:38:08.200 that very difficult for you. And he felt that that was done to him. Clearly, he's speaking about the

00:38:12.100 FBI. I haven't spoken to Kash Patel. I'm sure he would deny that, though. I feel compelled to say.

00:38:19.080 So Andrew Colvett and Blake Neff, who were also on this show two weeks ago, who worked for Charlie

00:38:26.020 and are now doing Charlie's show in the wake of his death were not happy with that exchange

00:38:32.180 between Schellenberger and Joe Kent. And here's some of their reaction yesterday.

00:38:37.660 I'd be shocked if Robinson's attorneys don't use this.

00:38:40.720 Well, of course, this is the obvious result of this.

00:38:43.380 That's what infuriates me is he's like endlessly. He's like someone who's vague posting on Facebook

00:38:48.380 where he's like, there's there's things I might know. People should know I might.

00:38:53.000 but I can't tell you what those are.

00:38:54.340 But I can't say what you actually think happened.

00:38:56.580 This really does have a potential

00:38:58.560 to not only taint a jury pool,

00:39:01.000 but to undermine the very prosecution of Tyler Robinson,

00:39:04.640 who I am 100% convinced pulled the trigger

00:39:07.800 and killed Charlie Kirk.

00:39:09.060 I am for asking questions.

00:39:11.100 This is why I shared the group chat

00:39:13.180 with Joe Kent in the first place.

00:39:15.180 I'm not afraid of the answer to those questions.

00:39:18.240 If Israel had a hand in killing Charlie, I want to know.

00:39:21.220 What I'm telling you is that we've had six months plus since that time to track down all those leads, none of which have been corroborated, none of which have actionable evidence behind.

00:39:30.900 You have to have facts and the recklessness with which these accusations are being thrown out now has real world implications.

00:39:38.480 OK, I completely understand Andrew and Blake being upset about this.

00:39:43.960 They do not want to do anything to shore up Tyler Robinson's defense, and I grant them total and complete grace on that reaction.

00:39:51.940 But as a legal matter, they really don't need to worry, okay?

00:39:57.400 And I'm going to get to why in one second, but before I do, taint to the jury pool, that's always something you have to worry about somewhat.

00:40:05.440 But in case after case after case, we have seen very, very ubiquitous media coverage, and it can be handled in voir dire by prosecutors.

00:40:16.720 That's what they will do.

00:40:17.620 That's what they would have done in the Brian Kohlberger trial, where they would have explored the many, many media exposés on the case and the many, many theories that were circulating all over social media that Kohlberger didn't do it.

00:40:30.900 there's a large faction that maintains that to this day, they were very loud on social media

00:40:36.000 and had all sorts of theories and podcasts and so on about how he wasn't the killer. Now he's,

00:40:39.580 of course, admitted he was, but that was something that the prosecutors were going to have to deal

00:40:44.400 with. And prosecutors state to state in today's day and age have to deal with that anyway,

00:40:48.980 because it's a true crime community now. I was just talking to my, well, I'll reveal this news

00:40:55.980 later, but we may have a little true crime news for you coming up. But it's growing, and it's

00:41:01.160 very popular, and it happens in cases that you know about and cases that you don't, where there

00:41:05.020 are very strong local, there's very strong local interest in it and becomes a podcast thing or

00:41:11.220 internet fodder in some way, shape, or form. It can be dealt with taint, but the notion that

00:41:17.200 it's going to go beyond that, that it's going to undermine the very prosecution of Tyler Robbins,

00:41:22.600 as Andrew said. And he said, who I'm 100% convinced pulled the trigger and killed Charlie.

00:41:27.720 Me too. Same. And Andrew and I have talked about it many times, privately and publicly.

00:41:32.380 The notion that it's going to undermine the prosecution, I think, is incorrect. And I think

00:41:37.420 in Andrew and Blake's defense, they were set up to get to this point by the way Schellenberger,

00:41:41.680 who I love, presented this. He presented it as, I've spoken with a constitutional law attorney,

00:41:49.240 and that person says this is definitely going to play a role

00:41:53.180 and this is going to potentially help Tyler Robinson at trial.

00:41:57.620 I think Schellenberger spoke to the wrong person.

00:42:01.120 He spoke to, sorry, yeah, he spoke to the wrong person.

00:42:04.960 He shouldn't have spoken to a constitutional con law lawyer.

00:42:07.820 He should have spoken to a criminal defense attorney

00:42:09.320 or a prosecutor, criminal prosecutor,

00:42:11.820 talked to an actual criminal prosecutor or defense attorney.

00:42:14.680 This is not coming into evidence.

00:42:16.620 It's not coming into evidence.

00:42:18.600 It's just not.

00:42:20.020 The only way this theory about whoever, I don't even know who it necessarily would be.

00:42:24.280 Is it Israel?

00:42:25.260 Is it Jewish donors to Turning Point if you go off the Charlie text? 0.62

00:42:29.520 I don't know who exactly the people who completely buy this theory think it is, but let's say

00:42:35.360 it's one of those groups.

00:42:36.800 The only way that's coming in is if there is actual evidence to support it.

00:42:41.280 A text expressing consternation by Charlie is not going to open that door.

00:42:47.040 It is not. Now, Joe Kent saying there were six major leads that pointed to the Israelis that

00:42:54.820 were not pursued. And here's what they were and can get really specific at maybe a pretrial

00:43:00.760 hearing where they could get into that. Maybe that could open a door. That's not what he has.

00:43:05.200 That's not what he has at all. In fact, Schellenberger really pressed him on like,

00:43:07.720 what other evidence is there? And he didn't cite any. He wasn't able to say, trust me,

00:43:12.920 there's a lot. He seemed to just be saying, like, I got shut down on the investigation. There was

00:43:18.180 something there. I wanted to pursue it. And I smelled something, but I wasn't allowed to do

00:43:22.100 anything. Well, that's not going to be enough. I mean, I'm sure Tyler Robinson's attorneys are

00:43:26.820 going to be sad that it's not enough. But my own instincts as a lawyer for 10 plus years, a

00:43:32.740 litigator, and I've tried cases. And then I checked with Arthur Idala, who is a legit trial

00:43:39.320 attorney, criminal defense, had one time been a prosecutor, and Matt Murphy, longtime criminal

00:43:43.740 prosecutor, so I've got both sides weighing in with me, and a couple of others who I called,

00:43:47.880 all agreed, not one wiggled at all, saying there is not a chance in hell that this gets admitted

00:43:54.440 by the Robinson defense, and even less chance that Joe Kent gets called at a witness.

00:43:59.480 Unless there's some treasure trove of other evidence that Joe Kent remembers,

00:44:05.040 Oh, gee, there were those six clues.

00:44:06.560 It was the Israelis that I did send to cash 1.00

00:44:09.720 and he didn't let me pursue.

00:44:10.820 That's not what's happening, though, here.

00:44:13.600 Okay, so I don't think they need to worry

00:44:16.120 about what's going to happen at the Charlie trial.

00:44:17.900 And the last thing is, though, on this,

00:44:20.300 I also don't think this settles the matter

00:44:22.340 about whether someplace said clues might be present

00:44:27.220 or why we haven't actually bothered to know.

00:44:31.760 we haven't bothered to actually investigate because I believe Joe Kent that he was effectively

00:44:38.420 shoved off of this. I don't know by whom. Um, I believe it for many reasons and I don't know

00:44:45.920 why that happened. Um, but I'll tell you that, you know, when I talked to Joe Kent personally,

00:44:52.320 he talked about there being additional leads that were not investigated. And that's why

00:44:57.860 when Andrew says, we've had six months plus since that time that I sent this to the FBI,

00:45:04.880 well, to Joe Kent and maybe another Fed, to track down all those leads, none of which have been

00:45:11.200 corroborated, none of which has actionable evidence. That presumes facts not in evidence,

00:45:22.140 that there has been an investigation of this angle of the story.

00:45:26.420 And I would submit we just don't know whether that's true.

00:45:29.660 What we know from Joe Kent is there wasn't.

00:45:33.940 And it's one of the many questions I think I still have about this case.

00:45:38.320 Why? Why would you shut that down?

00:45:40.240 It's not the only one.

00:45:41.340 Where's the arrest of the Trans Tifa mob that clearly knew about this beforehand?

00:45:46.540 Who's investigating that?

00:45:48.620 Why does it take six months to figure out whether all the people posting that

00:45:52.680 Charlie Kirk was going to get shot on September 10th, whether they, how they knew that.

00:45:59.160 Like, at least come out and tell us why, why hasn't there been an arrest? Have you investigated

00:46:04.280 anybody? Who, who have you spoken to? How did they know this? Did they all just get lucky?

00:46:09.580 All right. So it's not to stop with like the, it's an antisemitic. It's not fucking look at

00:46:15.380 Charlie's texts, all right? 0.96

00:46:16.640 It's just, let's just know.

00:46:20.380 Nothing should be off limits.

00:46:22.740 So I love Andrew and I love Blake,

00:46:24.420 but I think that they're not right,

00:46:26.360 that everything has been investigated.

00:46:28.480 And here's Joe Kent, again, less than a week ago,

00:46:31.300 to me directly, 25A.

00:46:33.340 And all I can really truly say

00:46:35.700 is that there were additional leads

00:46:37.500 that we needed to run down and fully investigate.

00:46:41.260 And then that's just simply was not done.

00:46:43.720 And basically from the time that Tyler Robinson turned himself in and was arrested and his fingerprints were found on the rifle, they basically, they being the FBI, said, hey, this is now going to go over to the Utah law enforcement and we are not investigating anything further.

00:47:00.920 And there was a lot of back and forth about that because there were still, and again, not just my opinion and the opinion of the National Counterterrorism Center, there was other leads for us to run down.

00:47:11.060 and I even spoke with members of the FBI

00:47:13.980 who were kind of at the ground level

00:47:14.840 and they agreed with me

00:47:16.020 and wanted to continue to investigate

00:47:19.080 and so all I can say with authority right now

00:47:22.000 is that there were additional leads

00:47:23.500 for us to run down

00:47:25.240 the scope that we had of foreign involvement

00:47:27.420 we did not get an opportunity

00:47:29.780 to run down all of those potential leads

00:47:32.880 and I think Charlie Kirk deserves justice

00:47:35.140 and I think people deserve the truth

00:47:37.120 about what happened on that day

00:47:38.780 I'm not trying to be cryptic

00:47:39.800 what I'm saying

00:47:40.960 is that there were things that we still needed to investigate that were not investigated.

00:47:46.680 So to sum up, in my view, this is a matter of government accountability, responsibility,

00:47:55.480 and open-mindedness to a real investigation that would cover any and all clues around who might

00:48:03.720 have had involvement. But I do not think in any way, shape, or form, as it looks right now,

00:48:09.460 this results in any help to Tyler Robinson. You cannot just say there were things the government

00:48:15.740 should have run down in my view, but they didn't and get that in front of a jury. That's not going

00:48:21.360 to happen. So I think there was a level of alarm yesterday on this that was perhaps not warranted,

00:48:29.520 though completely sincere and understandable. And I think we should take a deep breath on the

00:48:36.580 trial of Tyler Robinson, which I think will be well handled. I think he will be convicted. There

00:48:41.120 is a mountain of evidence against him. And the only questions I have are what's been done to

00:48:47.360 investigate Trans-TIFA and why haven't those leads that Joe Kent mentioned, again, at least one of

00:48:53.820 which I've been told about, not by him, off the record, why aren't they being investigated?

00:49:01.600 Like, where is the definitive answer on that?

00:49:05.420 Because Joe Kent just left the counterterrorism a week ago.

00:49:09.120 He left as chief a week ago, and he would know if they'd been investigated.

00:49:14.060 So the answer cannot be we looked into it, because it was his group that would have been

00:49:16.740 charged with it.

00:49:17.800 His group would have been charged with it.

00:49:19.100 And what you heard him say there was they were effectively shut down on it.

00:49:23.680 Okay, so that's where that stands.

00:49:26.360 Love to get your thoughts on it.

00:49:27.820 up next. I've never spoken to Kurt Mills, but I'm looking forward to. He is here. He is extremely

00:49:33.480 smart and knowledgeable. And I think we're all about to learn a lot. If your dog is scratching

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00:50:34.040 off your order. BetterWild.com slash MK. Joining me now, Kurt Mills. He's the executive director

00:50:46.260 of the American Conservative. Kurt, thanks so much for joining us. Big fan and love the

00:50:52.580 publication. In the model of Pat Buchanan, who has been my own sort of sage over the past year,

00:50:59.080 I've done a lot of reading of Pat Buchanan, and my God, he called so much of what we're

00:51:03.460 experiencing right now, and interestingly, was diminished on the world stage by being

00:51:08.000 called an anti-Semite, Kurt. Patterns repeat themselves. Indeed, indeed. I would like to say 0.98

00:51:14.620 that we improve as a species, but I think the jury's out. Yeah, the same. Let me kick it off

00:51:20.320 with this. General Stanley McChrystal gave an interview to the New York Times. He was,

00:51:26.960 for our younger audience, the guy who commanded our troops in Afghanistan from like 2003 to 2008

00:51:33.320 and was very badass, was the one who really killed like the worst of the worst in terms of the enemy

00:51:40.680 and was almost universally beloved by the troops, you know, Air Force guy, like army,

00:51:46.500 and then ultimately commanded the Air Force.

00:51:48.480 And he got booted by Barack Obama

00:51:51.260 because he said something negative about Joe Biden,

00:51:56.620 I think it was.

00:51:57.240 I think he was actually ripped on the vice president

00:51:59.040 and Barack Obama recalled him.

00:52:00.680 In any event, very, very well-respected general.

00:52:03.760 So he sat down and gave an interview to the New York Times

00:52:06.060 and said something that really jumped out at me

00:52:08.980 about people who are, quote, enjoying this war

00:52:12.560 and what he says to them.

00:52:14.980 Here it is in Sat 19.

00:52:16.500 We could bomb Iraq pretty easily. We could even take Baghdad with relative ease. We could get rid of the existing government. But once we wanted to change the reality on the ground, who actually controlled things, how things worked. Now you're not at 30,000 feet, you're at six feet. And you're the same height as your potential opponent. 0.81

00:52:41.460 And I tell people about this war, if you like this war, enjoy this first part, because this is the best part.

00:52:49.760 Because everything after this will be harder.

00:52:52.640 You see the reality that all of the resentment you create through what you do now, at some point, comes back to you.

00:53:03.380 I think that for everyone we kill in bombing Iran, they have a brother, sister, father, mother.

00:53:08.720 and they are unlikely to go, oh yeah, it's okay. You killed my father, but yeah, it was 0.92

00:53:14.660 geopolitical necessity on your part. That's not the way we respond. And so sometimes it's

00:53:21.800 necessary. I don't deny that some wars are just and required, but no wars that I'm familiar with

00:53:31.060 are neat, clean, or produce the kind of outcome we actually want. They produce this messy thing

00:53:37.220 that might be better than before the war, but it's not a lot better.

00:53:42.160 So in short, we're risking a lot.

00:53:44.840 And for what game?

00:53:46.300 And he seems to be asking that same question here.

00:53:49.720 Similar question to what you've been asking.

00:53:52.120 Let me ask it this way to kick things off.

00:53:54.860 How do you think it's going right now in Iran?

00:53:58.500 Well, look, I think General McChrystal is a good man.

00:54:02.000 He's probably much more establishment than I am.

00:54:04.420 It's very interesting to see how he evolved over the last 15 years when he was ousted from the administration or from the leadership in the military.

00:54:13.080 He was criticizing Barack Obama and also Joe Biden, really Joe Biden more than anyone else.

00:54:19.000 Back then, Joe Biden, say what you will, fought internally against the surge that the Obama administration, the early Obama administration was trying to do in Afghanistan.

00:54:27.540 Something that I think, you know, years as the years have wowed on, something Barack Obama himself didn't really even really believe in.

00:54:34.420 And so I think it's big to see McChrystal say this.

00:54:38.440 His contemporary at the time, David Petraeus, before the Iran war, warned against this war pretty much.

00:54:45.760 He said that it was actually remarkable that the U.S. had been so lucky in the Maduro raid that no special forces members had been killed, that could easily have been killed.

00:54:55.920 And so it is heartening to see, for better or worse, the sort of general class, the retired general class, complain about some of the maneuvers here, which is not something that we saw nearly as much in the global war on terror, at least in the 2010s.

00:55:10.640 General Mattis is also out there ripping on it. That was Trump's Pentagon chief, and he's also expressed major doubts about whether we can accomplish our goals in this war. Keep going.

00:55:19.680 I think, look, I think the war is not going well.

00:55:22.120 If you define it as, I mean, the basic U.S. definition was we wanted everything in the world with no costs. 0.85

00:55:30.140 You know, we wanted to kill the leadership of Iran. 0.99

00:55:32.260 We wanted to replace it peacefully with our people.

00:55:35.300 We wanted to keep Israel on side and we wanted to keep the MAGA coalition together.

00:55:40.080 That was basically the White House's goal.

00:55:42.840 And that's obviously failed spectacularly.

00:55:45.300 The Iranian goal is survival.

00:55:47.960 And then additionally, within the Iranian government itself, there are probably partners, sorry, there are probably forces within the Iranian government that are actually pretty happy by how this has gone, all things considered.

00:56:00.340 There were basically two views on Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader.

00:56:04.640 View number one, he was keeping the system together.

00:56:07.140 And view number two, which I'm more persuaded by, which was that he was an 88 or 87-year-old

00:56:12.260 jaredocrat that was in the way of more ambitious, younger people, including maybe his son,

00:56:18.640 depending on his position.

00:56:20.860 I mean, basically, the Iranians have developed into a junta. 0.97

00:56:25.320 They are run by the Revolutionary Guards.

00:56:27.420 and they have discovered a new toy,

00:56:29.780 which is that they can shut down the Strait of Hormuz.

00:56:32.060 They always theoretically knew that,

00:56:34.060 but it's one thing to know something in theory

00:56:36.320 and to see it in practice.

00:56:37.820 So as I zoom out here on March 25th,

00:56:41.480 it is hard to see how the United States

00:56:44.020 is better off for this war.

00:56:45.700 And if that is the goal,

00:56:46.760 if the goal of a war is to have strategic gains,

00:56:49.960 this war was a clear error.

00:56:52.900 It seems like notwithstanding some of these setbacks

00:56:55.580 because this drone program that the Iranians have has been incredibly pesky, to put it mildly,

00:57:01.600 we're getting ready to double and triple down.

00:57:05.060 Now, there's the big question.

00:57:06.320 The big question right now is whether Trump is actually going to use all the ground troops

00:57:10.660 who are currently en route to the Middle East.

00:57:13.840 Today, it's been reported that the Pentagon is expected to order roughly 3,000 troops

00:57:19.180 from the Army's elite 82nd Airborne Division to the Middle East in the coming hours,

00:57:23.880 according to the Wall Street Journal.

00:57:25.580 Um, and then there was another unit that had been dispatched.

00:57:30.700 We had Marines already and sailors on route.

00:57:32.980 And what people are asking is, are we actually going to use them?

00:57:36.500 Or is this just a scare tactic by Trump to improve our hand at whatever negotiating table

00:57:44.780 we may or may not be at?

00:57:47.080 Remains unclear exactly who's negotiating with whom and how, but do you think we actually

00:57:51.780 are going to start unleashing thousands of american ground troops in iran i think at this

00:57:59.680 point given how this has gone uh every time that president trump has mobilized military assets he's

00:58:04.520 eventually used them it might take a you know uh he initially started mobilizing these assets in

00:58:09.780 january he used them by the end of february so i said i think base case we are going to do it

00:58:14.860 um i think that there is a mobilization um and an effort to try to potentially take this this

00:58:20.700 thing called Carter Island, which is, you know, in the Persian Gulf right off the coast of

00:58:24.800 mainland Iran, I think his military value and financial value is dubious and overstated.

00:58:31.480 But I think hawks on Iran are going to persuade Trump to try to, you know, take it piece by piece.

00:58:37.920 And I think you could see it be a potential mass fatality event. What is mass fatalities? I mean,

00:58:43.780 there could be hundreds of Americans killed and trying to take this thing. Yeah, it's very,

00:58:48.220 very, very, very, very worrying. I'm not sure the decision is made. I think Trump probably changes

00:58:54.500 his mind on how to approach this war hour by hour. He's a day-to-day player. But I think that

00:59:00.680 the base case that there is going to be some movement, I think they're, you know, they keep

00:59:04.480 trying to move the over to window on this. And I think at the beginning of the war, you know,

00:59:09.040 they said that, well, maybe we do a little ground troops. And remember, before the run-ups of the

00:59:14.080 that was always seen as, oh, only the realists and the restrainers are making all this noise

00:59:20.500 about ground troops. No one's talking about ground troops. No one's talking about ground

00:59:23.560 troops. Well, lo and behold, March 1, the administration was talking about ground

00:59:27.020 troops. And I think they were for a reason. It's mission creep. That's what people are

00:59:32.560 worried about on this. It's the very same term my husband texts me when I'm inside the grocery

00:59:38.560 store. And I said, I only had to go in for one item. And 45 minutes later, he's still waiting

00:59:42.860 for me outside. Mission creep. Only here we're talking about life and death. And there is a real

00:59:48.800 question about, no, it's just a minor incursion. You know, basically this small excursion is how

00:59:53.580 President Trump phrased it. And now we've got literally thousands of American troops on their

00:59:58.980 way to Iran. And, you know, there was another former military guy. This is former CIA officer

01:00:05.940 Mark Polymeropoulos, who is making the rounds on podcasts. And he said this yesterday, similar to

01:00:11.500 what you just said. Here it is, SOT20. There's some very good open source intelligence sites

01:00:15.840 that we've seen a flow of the special operations commands, kind of lead elements, Army's Delta

01:00:20.760 Force, SEAL Team 6, the Task Force 160, that's the U.S. Special Operations Aviation, 75th Ranger

01:00:26.820 Regiment. They also have been going to the Middle East on C-17s, multiple flights over the last 48

01:00:32.560 hours. So we're seeing the deployment of what are ground forces. And so I think that's something

01:00:38.160 that, you know, one should take note of, in particular because in the past when Trump has

01:00:42.940 done this, whether it's the Venezuela operation with Maduro or the initial kickoff in Iran,

01:00:49.320 you know, when he moves military assets, he actually uses them. And in particular, we also

01:00:53.700 have to remember that the Marine Expeditionary Unit, the one coming from the Pacific, that will

01:00:59.100 be on station by Friday in the area, too. So that's another contingent of Marines. So there

01:01:06.560 are forces, there are ground forces flowing to the region. The reason I think Trump would not do it

01:01:13.760 are mostly political, right? The polls are overwhelmingly against this, including

01:01:20.120 Republicans. Only a smattering of Republicans want to see ground troops unleashed in Iran.

01:01:25.220 So Trump knows that. And also, I think notwithstanding the fact that he seems to have

01:01:29.100 been dazzled by the presentations made to him by the military industrial complex and its supporters

01:01:33.400 at Fox News and elsewhere, I do think that he's fundamentally anti-war.

01:01:38.460 Like, I think he got excited about what happened in Venezuela.

01:01:41.620 He got excited about what we did in Iran in June.

01:01:44.100 He had people he trusted and watched too much on Fox News get in his ear about how amazing

01:01:48.580 this could be for us.

01:01:49.540 But I think, like, at his core, I think he is anti-war.

01:01:53.960 And does he really want to be the guy that commands 3,000 to 5,000 American ground troops

01:01:59.000 in Iran, where he knows that death toll and those Dover, you know, dignified transfer ceremonies

01:02:04.420 are going to go up in a way that will be truly difficult for the nation and him?

01:02:09.480 Look, I'm very concerned. I would have agreed with you fully a month ago. But I think at this

01:02:16.620 point, structurally, what is going on here is that until President Trump tells Israel and he

01:02:22.800 tells Benjamin Netanyahu, no, this war will not end. And so you alluded to it. There's a potential

01:02:29.820 Islamabad track to negotiate a settlement of this war. But the reality is the Iranians are not going 0.98

01:02:37.660 to agree to the exact same package they turned down a month ago. They feel, I don't want to say

01:02:45.780 strengthened, but emboldened by how they've done the last three weeks. And if Trump is not willing

01:02:52.280 to broker an America first peace deal with the Iranians, then I think he will have to go to war. 0.97

01:03:00.740 He will have to keep he's already at war. He will have to escalate in the war.

01:03:04.240 And that's just my concern. And, you know, I'm not sure it's the die is cast. I'm not sure it's

01:03:08.840 fait accompli. You already have elements within Israeli society clearly anxious that Trump is

01:03:15.400 going to cut bait. You have neoconservatives in the United States, the Wall Street Journal

01:03:18.900 editorial board, certain members of Fox News, basically the Murdoch machine that are nervous

01:03:24.980 about it. So like, you know, I think it's always very dumb to think the history is written. 0.94

01:03:28.780 But I do think that unless he tells Netanyahu no, unless he tells Israel no,

01:03:35.120 they're going to keep marching on this.

01:03:38.580 No talk of Israeli troops on the ground, by the way, just the Americans.

01:03:43.440 Here's, I want to run this by you, Victor Davis Hanson, who we love,

01:03:46.980 who went through a very scary surgery recently

01:03:50.000 for a cancer scare he had involving his lung

01:03:54.460 is now getting back out there.

01:03:56.260 He's gonna come on the program soon.

01:03:57.620 He's not yet healthy enough

01:03:58.540 to do like a full hour sit down with us

01:04:00.220 and he will be here just as soon as he is.

01:04:02.520 But he's done bit pieces,

01:04:04.160 you know, where he's appeared here or there for 10 minutes.

01:04:06.580 And we got to hear him just a little bit on Hannity.

01:04:09.600 This is on Thursday, so it's a few days old.

01:04:11.940 But here's how he described how things are going.

01:04:14.220 He's an honest broker and he's a war expert.

01:04:16.980 And we love him. So I want to get your reaction as a more skeptical person around this war

01:04:20.880 to what he's saying. It's not 22. And when people say, well, we didn't have an imminent threat,

01:04:26.000 we didn't have an imminent threat when they took our hostages, when they blew up our barracks.

01:04:29.900 Nobody said we better attack around because we need an imminent threat when they blew up our

01:04:34.040 embassy. They never they always acted spontaneously with surprises and we never knew what they were

01:04:39.780 going to do. So the idea you have to have a telegraphed imminent threat, it's not the nature

01:04:44.860 of that regime it's lying disguise and dissimulation and that's their pattern for the last 47 years

01:04:51.500 but nobody's taken them seriously every president said we're going to deal with this all seven of

01:04:56.040 them and all seven of them did not and then all seven of them when they got out of office said

01:04:59.980 i regret that i didn't there's enough evidence to see how things are really going it's with

01:05:06.160 europeans would never agree to go anywhere near around unless they thought the tide was turning

01:05:11.100 and they think that we're going to win.

01:05:14.160 Otherwise, they would keep still.

01:05:16.200 And the reason that the Pepto nations of the Gulf survive 1.00

01:05:19.740 is they have their finger in the wind

01:05:21.120 and they're very attuned to the climate.

01:05:24.040 And when you have Al Jazeera praising the United States bombing campaign

01:05:28.100 and saying that it's been underestimated

01:05:30.200 and it's brilliant and effective,

01:05:31.880 you get the feeling that they think not only should the United States finish the job,

01:05:35.900 but it can and will finish the job.

01:05:38.380 And then when you start to see tactical aircraft,

01:05:41.100 like warthogs and apaches that means that they're offering almost ground and sea support to to hit

01:05:48.740 targets there's there's nothing there's no defense at all when you have that type of aircraft flying

01:05:54.700 at will in iranian airspace so you put it all together and i think it's pretty clear that

01:06:00.360 this robo dope strategy that they have that we're going to tire before they are is dependent on

01:06:07.440 just public opinion, the midterms in the United States. And if Trump sees it through, and I think

01:06:14.200 he will, I think they're going to fall pretty soon in two, three, four weeks. What do you make of

01:06:19.920 that, Kurt? Yeah, I hope it gets better. But I think that's a dissembling and inaccurate portrait

01:06:24.420 of what's going on. I mean, first of all, there's just basic facts he got wrong. I'm not aware of

01:06:28.480 any president who has been president during the Iranian, really Islamic Republic's existence

01:06:33.720 that stated that they regretted that they didn't go harder on it.

01:06:37.100 In fact, it's the opposite.

01:06:39.560 Carter's presidency was destroyed by a failed special forces raid.

01:06:44.220 Carter's presidency was destroyed by trusting the Hawks

01:06:46.980 and not working out a pragmatic deal with the new leadership in Iran.

01:06:50.760 Reagan didn't say anything of this sort.

01:06:53.020 Clinton ditto.

01:06:54.520 George W. Bush fought the Iran Hawks, to his credit,

01:06:57.600 in his second term after making a mess of the world in the first term.

01:07:01.160 um obama signed a deal with the iranians um biden uh while probably more hawkish on iran than obama

01:07:07.880 um didn't say anything of the con to the contrary and and his relationship with netanyahu helped

01:07:13.480 undermine him uh with the gaza protests so i mean if anything it's it was trump who was the first

01:07:19.480 president to relent to israeli pressure on iran so i don't know what he's saying seeing there

01:07:24.200 you know secondarily like look you know passes some prologue and uh mr hansen's a nice man but

01:07:29.940 he was a vociferous champion of the Iraq war. You know, he was,

01:07:33.580 he's the opposite of, of Pat Buchanan or the founder of our magazine. Um,

01:07:37.460 and you know, I think, uh, military,

01:07:39.860 military historians occasionally can lapse into becoming war fetishists.

01:07:44.560 And I think his strategic analysis is just wrong. Um,

01:07:48.280 I think he knows a lot about world war II and about ancient history,

01:07:51.320 and he gave you way more details about those battles than I can,

01:07:54.680 but his perspective, his prescriptive analysis is atrocious. I mean,

01:07:58.720 we would have done a lot better the last 25 years by just doing the opposite of what Victor Davis

01:08:02.920 Hanson wanted geopolitically. Oh, my beautiful VDH took a beating there, but he'll be back on and

01:08:09.220 we'll ask him directly. Now, I take your point. You're basically saying he's way more hawkish

01:08:13.620 than you are. And then that one quarter of the Republicans are and that he hasn't always been

01:08:19.700 right, like backing the war in Iraq, which I also did and have lived to regret. I mean, in my

01:08:26.260 defense, I knew nothing. I was a young Fox News anchor. I did as instructed by my bosses who are

01:08:30.680 still pushing war on us all these years later, not to excuse myself, but just to contextualize it.

01:08:37.720 The consequences to Trump politically are already being felt and they are significant. And, you know,

01:08:45.660 as somebody who is an American conservative, I imagine you're alarmed about what I'm seeing and

01:08:52.220 what you're seeing in these polls as well. Like, I don't think it's all about the Iran war. I think

01:08:57.120 it has largely to do, mostly to do with the economy, but being, looking like you're distracted

01:09:01.840 and focused on, you know, Iran instead of Illinois is not a great thing for any American president.

01:09:08.080 And Harry Anton over at CNN just did a rundown of the numbers. And in particular, the numbers on

01:09:15.180 American men and how it's going for Trump with American men. Hold on. We have it here.

01:09:21.680 sought 12. Donald Trump and Republicans won in 2024 because of support from male voters. The

01:09:29.080 only way they can win, given the gender gap in this country, is support from male voters. And

01:09:33.960 male voters are abandoning Donald Trump. In November of 2024, he beat Kamala Harris among

01:09:38.960 them by 13 points. By 13 points. Look at where he is now on his net approved rating. Down he goes.

01:09:44.500 It's a 20-point shift away from Donald Trump. He is now seven points underwater at this particular

01:09:50.860 point among men. I think it is very difficult for Republicans to do well in this midterm cycle

01:09:55.960 if Donald Trump is underwater with men. And look right here. Whoa. Yikes. Yikes. Yikes. Yikes. Men

01:10:03.440 under the age of 25 on Trump. He won him in 2024 by five points. Look where he is now. The net

01:10:09.840 approver waiting way down there. Down we go to negative 19 points. That's nearly what is that

01:10:16.280 nearly a 25 point switcheroo against the president of the United States. When it comes to men under

01:10:22.680 the age of 45, those men that had switched their allegiances over to the Republican Party are

01:10:28.060 seeing what the president is doing. They don't like what the president is doing. And they have

01:10:31.800 very much soured on the president of the United States. That is no bueno. No, I mean, it's a stake

01:10:40.240 in the heart of what Trump is supposed to be about. And, you know, it's not as if he should

01:10:44.200 advance the concerns exclusively of men under 45. But no one can really deny that that was, 0.98

01:10:50.400 in a lot of ways, his base and why he was reelected in 2024, why he did better than he

01:10:55.060 did in 2020, and why he did better than he did in 2016. And I think it belies, sorry, it reveals

01:11:01.120 how sort of radical the war contingent actually is. It's basically older Americans, older

01:11:08.540 conservatives, who, again, supported a lot of these mistaken wars in the 2000s and in the past,

01:11:14.720 And frankly, it is a bunch of cynical careerists and a lot of foreigners. 1.00

01:11:20.360 This war is extremely popular in Israel.

01:11:22.980 It's over 80 percent support in Israel.

01:11:25.860 It's under 30.

01:11:26.620 It's under 40 percent in the United States.

01:11:28.100 And as you mentioned, for any escalation, ground troops, et cetera, et cetera, it gets

01:11:32.300 dismal.

01:11:33.540 It gets dismal from there.

01:11:35.540 The numbers just go down even further.

01:11:37.840 Last night, there was a there's a special election in Florida in a House district that

01:11:42.260 includes Mar-a-Lago.

01:11:43.260 state house district 87 in palm beach and um it's it's a local election like a state house not not

01:11:49.740 federal and it's been vacant since since august of last year trump won this district at the

01:11:54.640 presidential level by 11 points last november of november 2024 uh last night a democrat won

01:12:01.360 uh she's a business owner a military spouse running for office for the first time she 1.00

01:12:05.480 defeated the heavily favored republican john maples um who john maples had received trump's

01:12:12.520 complete and total endorsement. And her own explanation on why she won was everyone's feeling

01:12:17.740 the affordability crisis. And the last thing Florida families needed when they're struggling

01:12:23.540 is $4 gas. That's the problem. That's the other problem for Republicans, whether you want this

01:12:30.940 war or support it or don't, is you don't want to lose the midterms and you really don't want to

01:12:36.840 lose the White House over to the Democrats in 2028. And the harbingers at the state special

01:12:44.420 election level are all bad, universally bad across the board, like multiple red cities 1.00

01:12:50.400 that Trump won in November of 24, now going Democrat in these special elections by double

01:12:57.180 digits, sometimes as much as like 19 or 20 points to the Dem in a Trump won district.

01:13:03.700 So these are warning signs that we need to pay attention to if we don't want a bloodbath

01:13:06.800 in November and then the following presidential election.

01:13:09.160 And they're not getting better thanks to this war.

01:13:11.840 Yeah, I mean, I also I think people are underrated to the degree to which Americans are increasingly

01:13:15.660 independent, like literally registered independence.

01:13:17.720 I believe the numbers are approximating about 40 percent, depending on what surveys you

01:13:22.500 believe.

01:13:23.220 So even if you see the polling of just, quote, Republican voters, it's a smaller and smaller

01:13:28.280 slice of the country than ever before.

01:13:30.320 Same thing with Democrats, smaller and smaller slice of the country than ever before, at least in the modern era.

01:13:36.140 And so, you know, that's how you're going to get these wild swings where Trump can win a district by 11 to 15 points and lose it by five points less than 14 months later, less than 16 months later.

01:13:47.960 And so, you know, I would not be sitting pretty and sanguine in the White House that Trump is commanding a majority of Republican supporters on any given issue.

01:13:58.460 The reality is George W. Bush left the presidency at 22% approval rating.

01:14:02.880 What does that tell you?

01:14:03.840 Over half Republicans supported him even as the economy tanked, and he lost two foreign wars.

01:14:09.960 It's just sort of the nature of partisanship.

01:14:11.700 Over 80% of Democrats backed President Joe Biden in June of 2024, and the Democratic leadership cooed him 30 days later.

01:14:20.020 So these surveys of support are interesting only so far as they go.

01:14:26.540 There are tons of Americans who want to trust the president. There are tons of Americans who want to who are glad that Kamala Harris is not the president. But I think mapping the enthusiasm for this war, mapping the enthusiasm for six dollar gas is a tricky business. And I would not be overconfident if I were President Trump's political advisers.

01:14:45.440 Well, that's the problem because you don't win election with just your party only. And even if you just look at Republicans, the latest poll out today from Reuters shows one in four Republicans opposes this war. It only has 75 percent approval rating across the entire Republican Party.

01:15:03.520 So that's not even even if you got every single one of those, you know, three quarters of Republicans to go out there and vote for him, that doesn't win you an election.

01:15:11.660 You need all of the party and some independents generally to win.

01:15:15.820 And what we have here is he's got 25 percent of Republicans now opposing him.

01:15:21.340 We saw a poll the other day saying also 25 percent of the electorate that put him in office, which does include independents, are against this war.

01:15:30.420 So it's like he can say that the MAGA loyalists love the war, but he needs more than that to stay in office, to keep Republicans in office.

01:15:38.400 So you've got 25 percent of those who put him in office opposing the war.

01:15:41.680 You've got 25 percent now of Republicans who are opposing the war as it goes on.

01:15:45.240 And you have 69 percent of independents opposing the war, 69 percent of independents.

01:15:52.580 Obviously, 93 percent of Dems oppose.

01:15:54.400 They'd oppose anything he does.

01:15:55.500 But you cannot win an election with 69 percent of independents and 25 percent of Republicans opposing you.

01:16:03.480 I think the independent numbers, by some surveys, are worse than the Democratic numbers.

01:16:08.060 There is a contingent of basically older Zionist sort of, I don't know, Biden wing Democrat.

01:16:14.920 Basically, you see it in you see the leadership choices of Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.

01:16:20.280 They're a little loath to overcriticize the Iran war.

01:16:23.580 You would think the congressional Democrats would be all in on opposing this, but they're actually not.

01:16:28.580 It's actually the independents that are driving, you know, the opposition, I think, most vociferously in the country.

01:16:34.560 They just don't have representation in Congress, unfortunately.

01:16:38.220 But they do vote.

01:16:39.640 It's true.

01:16:39.840 They do vote.

01:16:40.760 And they vote in the midterms and they vote in the presidency.

01:16:44.400 Yeah, they have a representative sitting right here.

01:16:47.200 I've been a long-term registered independent for many, many years.

01:16:50.680 Same here.

01:16:51.040 Yeah. I always say I would not put on anybody's team jersey. I just there's too many like scoundrels in each party who don't represent my interests and nor do I sign on to anybody's uniform party platform. I like being able to say I'll make my decision, you know, when it's time.

01:17:04.700 What you're what you're seeing right now is that you have a sort of empire strikes back moment of the Bushwing Republican Party.

01:17:11.360 And they're using Trump as kind of a figurehead and mascot.

01:17:14.260 It's a it's a MAGA drag act.

01:17:16.580 And, you know, these these these forces very much want to, you know, once Mr.

01:17:22.320 Trump leaves the scene, once he doesn't run for that third term, you know, they thank him for his service.

01:17:27.160 They thank him for the Iran war.

01:17:28.600 And then they want to knife J.D. Vance.

01:17:30.420 and then they want to put Marco Rubio up or Ted Cruz up and go back to business as usual

01:17:35.180 circa 2015. That's exactly right. I mean, the nerve of Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin,

01:17:40.900 both of whom are two original never Trumpers to now cloak themselves in MAGA gear and act like

01:17:46.600 they've been with Trump all along. And really, Trump is just doing the bidding of the Republican

01:17:50.820 Party when Trump ran as a restrainer, as somebody who is against war. And now they look at people

01:17:56.980 like you and like me who believe Trump on that and who would really like to hold him to it 0.98

01:18:01.440 as some sort of turncoats, you know, unpatriotic, disgusting. It's like, 0.96

01:18:06.320 wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're still where Trump said he was the entire time he ran

01:18:12.400 and governed the first time. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it is heinous and disturbing

01:18:19.400 for the country that the command center, the nerve center seems to be of the White House's

01:18:26.220 media operation at this point are people like Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro, the Foundation for

01:18:32.280 Defense of Democracies, Barry Weiss's media outfits. These are people who also sifferously

01:18:38.480 oppose Trump. They oppose Trump more, in my opinion, than Hillary Clinton. The Clintons

01:18:43.440 wanted Trump to be the nominee, right, to their error politically. But the Never Trumpers actually

01:18:51.240 burned their party cards. Sometimes literally, not actually an analogy, they actually burned

01:18:56.380 their party cards. And they opposed Trump. And why? Because, you know, it wasn't so much,

01:19:01.040 they said it was about his character and the bankruptcies and the divorces and all this stuff.

01:19:04.640 But I think they would have lumped it if he had been with them on foreign policy. And he was loud,

01:19:10.220 rude, and unsparing on the mistakes of the Bush presidency, on the Iraq war, on the necessity,

01:19:16.900 the lack of necessity of these foreign wars, how America was getting ripped off on the world stage,

01:19:21.840 how it was wasting its time in the Middle East. He was unsparing on that in 2016, and he was

01:19:26.780 unsparing in 2024 as well. In a lot of ways, Trump is best as a politician as an insurgent.

01:19:33.180 I mean, that 2020 campaign was pretty lame, honestly. The 2016 and 2024 campaigns were better

01:19:37.960 because he was articulating this message. And it is a complete act of retroactive continuity

01:19:44.140 to try to argue that he always ran

01:19:46.420 as a sort of Marco Rubio circa 2015 Republican.

01:19:50.000 The two hated each other.

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01:21:01.620 Well, you know what people will say.

01:21:02.940 Well, he always made clear that Iran couldn't get a nuclear weapon.

01:21:06.400 Sure.

01:21:06.800 And that's really what led to this war.

01:21:08.660 Well, yeah, but I mean, there's been a willing conflation between no nuclear weapon and everything else that was on the table.

01:21:16.860 So, number one, the guy that he just killed, the supreme leader of Iran, not to trust him, but he had issued a fatwa in the early 2000s against nuclear weapons.

01:21:25.440 So we just potentially removed the most major impediment within the Iranian system to them actually launching for a bomb.

01:21:32.160 His son or whoever is running Iran now, this sort of junta of eight or nine people in the IRGC, they may just lunge for a crude weapon at this time or even try to buy it from North Korea or something like this.

01:21:42.960 So, number one, we've made it more likely that the Iranians will get a nuclear weapon. 0.97

01:21:46.660 Number two, there was a willful conflation in the negotiations by the Israelis, by the neoconservatives, by opponents of any diplomacy.

01:21:57.800 And I would include the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who cast a lot of doubts on diplomacy throughout this process.

01:22:04.280 There was a willful conflation between no nuclear weapon and no nuclear enrichment.

01:22:10.160 The Iranians wanted to maintain a pittance of enrichment to basically save face with their own population. 0.98

01:22:16.660 somewhere around 3.5%, lower than Obama's JCPOA. That is well, well, well below weapons grade,

01:22:24.780 approximately 90%. It's a fake issue. And they knew, in my opinion, that Trump is not a details

01:22:30.920 man. He said it himself, the deal can be a page long. And there was a conflation between no

01:22:36.560 enrichment and no nuclear weapon. They've been enriching since the end of JCPOA for years,

01:22:42.820 and they haven't gotten a nuclear weapon.

01:22:45.320 Right, exactly.

01:22:46.120 And so now we don't know.

01:22:47.020 It's not an imminent threat.

01:22:48.180 It's running Iran right now.

01:22:48.980 It's not an imminent threat.

01:22:50.060 I mean, VDH is wrong.

01:22:51.380 If it was an imminent threat,

01:22:52.540 then it's been an imminent threat

01:22:53.380 every day since Ayatollah Khamenei

01:22:55.980 came down the plane in 1979.

01:22:58.380 And I'm 35 years old

01:22:59.740 and I haven't lived in mortal fear

01:23:02.460 of the Ayatollah all 35 years of my life.

01:23:05.500 Yeah, he hasn't been in front of lobe for you.

01:23:08.720 It hasn't been for most people.

01:23:09.340 I got through the 90s, the 2000s, yeah, so.

01:23:11.500 What do you make, Kurt, of the very active campaign to silence any critics of this war

01:23:18.800 as anti-Semites? Because not a day passes where a detractor, somebody who's got questions about

01:23:24.340 this, doesn't get called that word. The latest yesterday was the despicable Josh Hammer decided

01:23:30.640 to take a shot at Tulsi Gabbard. I mean, seemingly out of nowhere, because he found out that she

01:23:36.640 had joe kent working for her um as her chief of staff for a period of time and therefore decided

01:23:43.060 to go for her here it is in sat 23 multiple people around the same time let last fall on

01:23:49.140 the exact date that tulsi gabbard who is the director of national intelligence and she was

01:23:55.060 joe kent's boss as the director of the national counterterrorism center he works under tulsi

01:23:59.460 gabbard i was told by numerous people who are very much part of the conservative ecosystem in dc

01:24:04.840 These are well-sourced people, strong connections to the White House.

01:24:07.860 They told me to be strongly on the lookout for Tulsi Gabbard and her office.

01:24:13.140 They basically said that Tulsi Gabbard is running something of a shadow operation from her office, that she is personally – I was told this – I've met Tulsi, you don't know her well.

01:24:23.900 I was told she's personally actually very anti-Semitic and that she is heavily involved in a lot of the anti-Semitic influencer operations.

01:24:31.240 As a woman who watches the MK show and came to one of my tour stops, the redheaded libertarian 0.98

01:24:37.980 set on X, I was told by people close to the White House that you are a gay vampire, Josh Hammer. So 0.99

01:24:43.660 I mean, let's just go with that. Like, I've been told, I've been reliably told she's an anti-Semite

01:24:48.480 and she's running an anti-Semitic op out of the DNI's office. I mean, what is this, Kurt?

01:24:54.820 Yeah, I mean, look, I hope VDH gets better. And I know that Josh is not well. I mean,

01:24:59.680 he presents with the visage and the self-control of an insane person. That was like a vintage Alex

01:25:07.380 Jones segment, but at least Alex Jones is hilarious. Josh is- And smart. And yeah,

01:25:13.820 Josh is charmless, unfortunately. And most of his columns are a declaration of war against

01:25:20.200 the English language, and this is no exception. So, I mean, look, it's just factually inaccurate.

01:25:25.220 it. Number one, I mean, the story of Director Gabbard, unfortunately, is he just hasn't been

01:25:31.380 terribly effective. She doesn't have a strong relationship with Trump. I think that's part of

01:25:35.340 why Kent resigned. The idea that this woman is anti-Semitic is just, well, you're right, 1.00

01:25:42.260 there's a conflation of any criticism of Israel with prejudice towards Jews, but it's just not

01:25:46.780 who she is. If anything, honestly, and this may be a bit in the weeds, if anything, her views on

01:25:53.040 Middle Eastern politics are actually a pretty hard line against Sunni political Islam I mean

01:26:01.700 if you listen to her speeches over the years she's basically backed the Israeli line vis-a-vis Hamas

01:26:08.260 and you know like it's just not accurate he is just doing a character assassination of her

01:26:16.060 And, you know, to what effect? I mean, I don't actually think the ODNI is actually that effective. They didn't stop the war. I think that's why Kent left.

01:26:27.940 Well, it's also an indictment, an attempt to indict Joe Kent, right, who's become very inconvenient for the Josh Hammers of the world, who they've dubbed him an anti-Semite.

01:26:38.920 There's an active campaign underway to try to cancel yours truly.

01:26:43.100 And the sin that I have committed is I'm friends with Tucker Carlson.

01:26:46.240 I mean, literally, like, you need to cancel now for your refusal to cancel somebody.

01:26:51.100 It's like they've gotten really desperate, and especially since the war started, it's gone times 10 to try to silence any critics of it, which is very weird.

01:27:00.760 Like, I listen to you.

01:27:02.600 I listen to a lot of critics of the war.

01:27:04.380 I am a critic of the war.

01:27:05.840 I'm still a Trump supporter.

01:27:07.300 But I have no problem hearing people who support the war justify it, say why they believe in it.

01:27:13.680 Like, there are two sides to it.

01:27:15.360 I totally get that and respect the other POV.

01:27:17.840 I don't share it. But what's with the attempt by people like Josh to try to cancel, diminish, smear anyone he perceives as less than full throttle and support?

01:27:30.200 The story is older than I think you're implying, frankly. I mean, it's interesting that the free press is now the home of sort of anti-woke, anti-culture, cancel culture. That's how it was founded in 2020, 2021, 2022.

01:27:44.020 But the reality, if you look at someone like Barry Weiss's career, she actually came about on the scene at Columbia University by trying to cancel and get defrocked pro-Palestinian professors. 0.96

01:27:57.000 I mean, this is an old, old, old, old playbook that goes way back.

01:28:02.760 This happened to the magazine, our magazine's co-founder, William Buckley, who I'm sure is still liked by a lot of conservatives.

01:28:09.900 I'm not a fan.

01:28:11.280 Um, uh, Bill Buckley oversaw something called in search of antisemitism, which is basically

01:28:18.080 a witch hunt book that went after Pat Buchanan and Gore Vidal, uh, just for their criticisms

01:28:23.140 of Israel.

01:28:24.920 And this was the early nineties, early nineties.

01:28:27.840 It's, it's ubiquitous right now.

01:28:30.800 And what you mentioned, Barry Weiss at Columbia, there's a debate amongst some in the American

01:28:37.220 Jewish community about, once we saw the explosion of anti-Semitism, actual anti-Semitism post 10-7

01:28:42.600 on so many of the college campuses, I mean, like the ripping off of people's yarmulkes,

01:28:46.640 they're getting in the faces of Jewish college students who are trying to cross the quad,

01:28:50.440 screaming, you know, globalize the Intifada. That was crazy ass shit. Pulling down the pictures of 1.00

01:28:54.120 the hostages who are still fighting for their lives. That was crazy. That was deeply wrong.

01:28:59.200 But we have seen a debate unfold in the wake of all of that about whether the answer is to put

01:29:06.640 Jewish Americans into the category of DEI, like keep DEI and just put Jews in there too. 0.98

01:29:15.060 So it's like blacks and gays and trans and Jews. And then there were many of us who said, 0.94

01:29:20.980 that's the last thing we should be doing. The answer is to eradicate DEI, DEI and dividing us

01:29:27.380 by skin color or religion or whatever. That's the problem. And the solution to the problem is not to

01:29:33.060 enlarge the problem itself. And to me, it seems clear that we lost that debate that, you know,

01:29:39.860 being Jewish or forget Jewish, it's about like being pro-Israel, making Israel like a huge thing 0.93

01:29:45.940 in your life and judging others by their opinions on Israel. That's kind of gotten shoved into like

01:29:50.940 a DEI category where now you get called an anti-Semite. We were always told we criticize

01:29:55.140 Israel and it wasn't anti-Semitic, but it turns out it turns out that's just not true, Kurt.

01:29:58.800 I think the administration and facets of the administration are basically doing DEI for Jews only, actually.

01:30:05.940 They are preserving the DEI playbook and tools, but just for Jews and just for against critics of Israel's wars. 0.65

01:30:18.460 And I mean, I think case in point, I believe the administration is resuing Harvard.

01:30:21.640 And like, look, every single thing that happened on the campus protests in the past years is not defensible.

01:30:27.260 There's obviously above zero anti-Semitism in the country, but it's a country of 330 million people.

01:30:33.640 There's the First Amendment. There's the right to protest.

01:30:36.700 Sometimes protests get out of hand and trying to smash these, I think, is going to be hugely counterproductive.

01:30:43.520 It's not working. Israel's approval rating goes down and down and down and down in every survey.

01:30:50.380 And the Republicans, I mean, base case, one of the huge reasons they got thrown back into power that Mr. Trump was reelected president was that people were fed up with the woke cancel culture of the early 2020s.

01:31:04.980 And for this administration to come in and now to try to, you know, pseudo criminalize speech critical of Israel, I think, you know, doesn't pass the laugh test for the American people.

01:31:15.200 And there's going to be a major lane, in my opinion, for anti-war Democrats who want to run against this.

01:31:21.420 And then also, in my opinion, eventually right wing anti-war critics as well.

01:31:25.460 I think the administration is making a huge error on this.

01:31:27.560 And I think, you know, look, I don't I'm not sure it's so much being driven by Trump himself.

01:31:31.740 But, you know, he's he's a coalition manager.

01:31:34.160 He's a sort of boss tweed figure. And there are elements of his coalition that want to do this.

01:31:39.560 And like, look, I don't want to start a huge fight with this, but like, you know, there's someone like the Laura Loomer woman who's, you know, an utter fanatic and basically just has some sort of operation that is just trying to get people fired for their views on whether or not the Americans support should support a foreign war.

01:31:56.980 A war, by the way, that she criticized when Trump criticized it two years ago. 0.97

01:32:02.560 I just think shows how cynical and nasty and stupid, but also I'm very confident on the 1.00

01:32:08.700 wrong side of history of all this is. 1.00

01:32:11.020 The Israeli hard line is running out of time in the United States and they know it.

01:32:15.760 I hope you're right because I tell you, this is not good for American Jews. 1.00

01:32:19.740 And I have, I mean, truly, I know it's like cliche, but look, literally virtually all

01:32:23.280 of my closest friends are Jewish.

01:32:24.380 I mean, it's 80% of them.

01:32:26.440 And to a person, even the ones who are really pro-Israel will say, these people don't represent me.

01:32:34.200 I don't judge people by how they feel about Israel, never mind how they feel about this war.

01:32:39.720 And I don't need everybody and their mother to get sued over anti-Semitism because they have the wrong poster board.

01:32:46.520 Like, I just don't think that normal American Jewish people are running around thinking, how does it affect Israel?

01:32:54.420 And how can I shut down other people's viewpoints that I find mildly offensive, even about Judaism?

01:32:59.540 You know, it's like I had a long talk with a friend of mine.

01:33:01.520 I was like, look, you know, the number of like very, very conservative men I've had on this podcast.

01:33:06.320 I mean, I like too many to count.

01:33:08.360 Do I think all of their views are perfectly equal when it comes to women? 0.99

01:33:12.980 And there's absolutely no sexism in their worldview.

01:33:16.160 No, I do not think that. 0.99

01:33:17.980 I don't give a shit. 0.99

01:33:19.880 Like, who cares? 0.99

01:33:21.560 Like, okay, so we differ on a couple of issues.

01:33:24.160 You may be more this way and I may be more that way.

01:33:26.420 And neither one of us is perfect.

01:33:28.000 Nobody has the perfect, absolutely lovely worldview on everybody.

01:33:32.140 The point is, like, when do we start shutting down speech,

01:33:35.160 shutting people out of the national conversation,

01:33:36.800 and hurling the nastiest allegations as defining of one's personhood?

01:33:41.820 When do we do that?

01:33:43.080 And against whom?

01:33:44.440 And for what purpose?

01:33:45.160 And what we're seeing right now is that allegation, the same way it was weaponized by the BLMers in 2020 to be, you know, everybody's racist, is being weaponized right now by a certain contingent of Israel firsters to shut down any debate about this war or the Israel lobby, AIPAC, in America and their influence over our Congress. 0.78

01:34:04.860 No doubt. I mean, I think you're picking up on a macro dynamic, which is the increasing separation of the American Jewish community from the interests of Israel or from the Israeli community, frankly.

01:34:16.700 And this has been going on for a number of years. You know, people like Mr. Hammer are in a minority of Jews, a minority of Jews vote Republican. 0.54

01:34:26.060 And then within that, a minority of Jews vote Republican are inclined towards these types of politics, in my view.

01:34:32.440 And it is a it is a cynical attempt. I mean, and by the way, it's not just driven by by Jews. I mean, people like Senator Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, Cotton, they clearly they clearly revel Rupert Murdoch clearly revel at the opportunity to call someone racist for once.

01:34:51.840 Like, I mean, I just think I think we shouldn't use this conversation at all, not to imply that there there aren't genuine bigots and racists in this country.

01:34:59.540 And and frankly, some of them are pretty separate or pretty strident critics of me because I try to advance a principled criticism of Israel, principled non-interventionism. 0.68

01:35:13.640 And I think there are people who actually want to agree with Benjamin Netanyahu, that they want the conversation to be about Jews.

01:35:21.460 And I think that plays into all the wrong people's hands.

01:35:25.860 And I think you can totally criticize the government of Israel.

01:35:30.220 You can totally argue that the United States should have nothing to do with this and that does not make you a bigot.

01:35:36.420 In fact, some of the most brilliant and principled critics of Israel for decades now are Jews and have been Jews.

01:35:46.560 mm-hmm yeah i do think that they try to make an example of certain well-known people as a warning

01:35:54.140 to others like losing its effectiveness it's losing its effectiveness it is i mean i mean

01:35:58.880 you're to go after tucker carlson who um we both know um this is going after the second most

01:36:04.820 important conservative in the country um it's not going to work and i mean and tucker's power

01:36:11.520 only grows as a result of it. Like his show is on fire. People are thirsting for an alternate

01:36:16.880 viewpoint. And I think, I'm sure he has a lot of independents and Democrats listening too, but

01:36:21.020 I think there's a large strain of Republicans who would like to hear their own opposition to this

01:36:25.940 war embodied by, you know, smart conversations. Then I'm, I don't focus on Israel anywhere near 0.93

01:36:32.880 as much as Tucker. I just don't have the interest, but I'm also a critic of this war. And it's been

01:36:37.360 interesting. We've had some audience say, I'm not interested in this. And we've had tons of

01:36:41.320 new audience come and say, oh, I'm very interested in hearing this discussion.

01:36:44.300 I'm a bit of an Iran nerd. I like talking about this stuff. But the reality is, it's not us 0.98

01:36:51.420 driving this. This is all the administration is doing because of our relationship with Israel,

01:36:56.340 right? I mean, this is an administration that's ostensibly supposed to be about immigration and

01:37:00.460 trade protection. And yes, there are people working on that. But what is sucking up all

01:37:04.860 of the oxygen is the Iran war, is Israel issues. And it wasn't just a Trump story. It also happened

01:37:11.300 to Joe Biden. This relationship is bipartisan in being, I think, a pretty bad bag of goods

01:37:17.860 for whoever the president of the United States is, unless we make a clean break with the Israelis. 1.00

01:37:23.940 So, Kurt, last question. What do you think is going to happen this week? Do you think Trump

01:37:27.680 actually does unleash these troops? Or do you think he takes the off ramp because he's feeling

01:37:32.100 the pressure at home with the gas prices and these politics that we went over and just declares a

01:37:36.420 victory and gets the hell out? I think we're probably going to do some sort of military

01:37:39.760 operation unless uh trump is able to will into existence this potential pakistan uh side dialogue

01:37:48.880 and i think you know there's basically one man a lot of it's rumor at this point but there's one

01:37:53.440 man that potentially could come in as a sort of duex machina and that is vp jd vance if he does

01:37:59.760 meet with some of these iranians in south asia i think that's a game changer because i think the

01:38:03.600 the Iranians are done meeting with Wyckoff and Kushner. Yeah, that's right. Because we bombed 0.95

01:38:09.520 them the last time they were in the midst of those negotiations and they therefore no longer

01:38:13.700 trust them. Kurt, great, great discussion. Thank you so much for coming on. All right. And coming

01:38:19.080 up next, I'm going to keep the party rolling with actor Josh Duhamel, who is here live. Can't wait

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01:39:53.400 more. It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM

01:40:00.420 app. From small town North Dakota to the bright lights of Hollywood, actor Josh Duhamel first

01:40:11.200 rose to fame on the daytime soap opera, All My Children, before making the jump to the big screen,

01:40:17.020 starring in everything from romantic comedies to the Transformers franchise.

01:40:20.680 But these days, life looks a little different. As a father of two with another on the way, DeMell has traded the hustle and bustle of Hollywood for a quieter off-the-grid life in Minnesota, embracing the role he says matters most, being a dad.

01:40:36.800 And now he's channeling that real-life experience in his latest project.

01:40:41.640 In his new film, Preschool, which he directed and stars in,

01:40:45.120 he plays one of two fathers locked in an over-the-top battle

01:40:49.040 to secure a coveted spot at an elite preschool.

01:40:53.680 The film spirals into a hilarious and relatable look

01:40:56.800 at just how far parents will go for a little junior.

01:41:00.740 Here's some of the trailer.

01:41:01.960 I will make absolutely sure that you have every opportunity that life has to offer.

01:41:06.200 Welcome to Pugsley's Academy of Excellence.

01:41:08.500 We only accept the best here.

01:41:10.100 A prepared child is a successful child.

01:41:12.040 Oh, my God. Excellent.

01:41:15.320 Unfortunately, this year, we only have one slot.

01:41:20.500 I know they have a strategy.

01:41:22.020 I just have to figure out what it is.

01:41:24.580 We need to know what Dylan's up against.

01:41:26.240 We are a brilliant team.

01:41:27.540 There isn't a single problem we can't fix.

01:41:30.100 We're just getting started, Doc.

01:41:31.260 he's been in fights

01:41:37.100 what's best for our children

01:41:41.300 that is amazing and very real he's also here to break some news about the business he founded

01:41:50.400 gatlin we'll get into that in just a bit josh welcome to the show megan i'm so happy to be

01:41:55.480 here i've been hoping to meet you for a very long time so here we are thank you thank you so much

01:42:01.060 it's great to have you. Big fan, and I'm an even bigger fan, of your lifestyle and character

01:42:06.820 choices. I feel like you are one of those few rare beings in Hollywood that gets there,

01:42:14.360 makes it big, and says, what the hell is this? I'm out. You keep your career going,

01:42:20.040 but when it comes to passing on values to the next gen, you've decided on something more sane.

01:42:25.400 So let's start there. Why are you not raising your family in Los Angeles?

01:42:29.700 Well, we do spend part of our time here. I have a 12 year old who lives in Los Angeles, but he also comes with us out to Fargo, North Dakota and the cabin that you see there all the time.

01:42:41.780 We spend most of the summer out there and a big part of the winter, too.

01:42:45.080 It's just, you know, to your point, it was like, you know, my wife is from North Dakota, very much a family girl, very close to her family.

01:42:54.080 I am the same. And it was just a chance for us to, I don't know, give them something else besides the big city.

01:43:02.420 You know, when I bought that place 17 years ago, it was a way for me to sort of relive my youth in a way.

01:43:10.300 Because I grew up in the outskirts of Minot, North Dakota, out in the woods, like Huck Finn.

01:43:15.020 And so when I bought this property, I think that was the initial impetus for it.

01:43:19.080 And then as I went on, I had Axel and now Shepard.

01:43:22.660 And we have a little one on the way after a little girl on the way in June.

01:43:26.700 I really want them to be able to experience the things that I did, to get dirty, to figure out things on their own, to get off their iPads and to just explore.

01:43:38.520 And I think that that's, it's, it's really been a huge blessing. We, it's our happy place out

01:43:42.460 there and we, we, I could live out there year round if, if, if I could. So what you're saying

01:43:48.000 was the draw to Minnesota was not Tim Walsh. No, it was not Tim Walsh. It was not Tim Walsh.

01:43:56.100 Thank God. Then we can continue getting to know each other. That's thrilled to hear that. All

01:44:03.820 right. So you start off as this rural kid and grow up, you know, dirt under your fingernails,

01:44:09.240 like I did actually up in Syracuse, New York too, like in the Creek a lot of the time and making

01:44:13.580 mud pies. And I think that develops a good person on a number of levels. But then you decide to try

01:44:18.440 your hand in modeling first. So I'm told, and I'm told you actually made it so big that you

01:44:24.260 beat Ashton Kutcher for male model of the year back in what, the mid 2000s?

01:44:30.800 Yeah, that was the late 90s, but I didn't actually make it big.

01:44:33.340 He did.

01:44:33.640 The late 90s, okay.

01:44:34.360 I won a competition that was sort of like Zoolander in a lot of ways. 0.71

01:44:40.400 When I really look back at it now, it was ridiculous.

01:44:43.200 But it was what I thought was my rocket to stardom.

01:44:48.020 And it didn't turn out so much that way.

01:44:49.920 It was four years of grinding, and I won the thing,

01:44:54.960 and I thought that I was going to go on and do great things,

01:44:57.280 but it didn't turn out that way.

01:44:59.680 Ashton, on the other hand, went on and did that 70s show and got a Calvin Klein cam and just a

01:45:05.380 bunch of different things. So I was pretty bitter at him for a while. But we've buried the hatchet.

01:45:12.620 We laugh about it now. Well, you have the chiseled good looks, which will always help

01:45:18.400 you as a male actor and a male in general in life. And it's no accident that you started on

01:45:23.400 All My Children, right? Where it's like, back then, I'm sure they were like, he's hot. If he

01:45:27.660 can act at all. He's hired and it would turn out that you could do it all. And then, which is why

01:45:32.760 he became a big movie star. But I do want to take us back as somebody who used to watch all my

01:45:36.980 children a lot back in the day. Not the more. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. When I was growing up, I loved

01:45:41.740 all my children. Uh, I watched general hospital. I had a few that I really liked, but here you are,

01:45:47.960 um, in the following stop 52. Good morning, Rosalie. The meal and the company were so

01:45:54.440 charming the other day i thought i'd see what your breakfasts were like did you happen to bring

01:46:00.120 a different credit card this time i'm afraid not no huh but you were so clever about it before

01:46:09.960 i don't dare manager's here today what a shame i mean we had such a great time

01:46:18.040 When you talked about Tuscany, I felt like I was there.

01:46:23.700 Yeah, I started telling you about Switzerland.

01:46:25.820 You were asking me about skiing in Chamonix.

01:46:28.020 Because I've read about Chamonix.

01:46:30.140 But you've been there.

01:46:32.480 Oh, well.

01:46:34.040 Wait.

01:46:36.640 You don't have to go.

01:46:38.360 I got paid this morning.

01:46:40.040 Oh, no.

01:46:40.360 This will be on me.

01:46:41.300 I couldn't let you do that, Rosalie.

01:46:43.580 Be my pleasure.

01:46:46.820 Really.

01:46:48.040 You talk me into it.

01:46:49.740 And of course, I can return the favor sometime.

01:46:52.840 I'll be right back with the menu.

01:46:55.300 Oh, my God.

01:46:56.200 That's hilarious.

01:46:57.560 That's amazing.

01:46:58.600 So many stories.

01:46:59.620 Okay, so that scene was the most impressionable moment of my,

01:47:07.860 or easily my late 20s into my mid-30s.

01:47:10.480 Even now, I remember that scene like it was yesterday.

01:47:13.200 I couldn't tell you what I said in a movie last week or anything that I did

01:47:18.940 like recently, but that scene, because I was so nervous.

01:47:22.640 I knew I was going to be on TV for the first time.

01:47:25.280 All I could think about was, oh my God, I'm going to be on TV.

01:47:27.840 All my friends back home are going to see this.

01:47:30.060 What am I going to do?

01:47:30.660 So I would just, and I was the breathing.

01:47:33.680 I couldn't, I feel it now.

01:47:36.500 It's like I regressed back to that moment because that was like the one time

01:47:41.300 and my leather duster and my mohair mock turtleneck.

01:47:45.700 With like one too many buttons undone.

01:47:47.840 It was like, and so I remember just being so nervous

01:47:50.620 that I had to remember these lines

01:47:51.960 and I was going to be on TV and it was just terrifying.

01:47:55.420 That, the girl, by the way, is Elizabeth Banks.

01:47:58.540 Do you know who that is?

01:47:59.600 I thought that was Elizabeth Banks. 0.91

01:48:01.640 I was like, that looks exactly like Elizabeth Banks,

01:48:04.280 who also, of course, went on to become a huge star.

01:48:06.100 Yeah, that was her first job too,

01:48:08.780 which we also laugh about that

01:48:10.460 because we were so,

01:48:12.900 oh, thanks for bringing that one out, Megan. 0.93

01:48:14.900 Holy crap. 0.94

01:48:15.460 I was not expecting that. 0.92

01:48:16.180 Well, it's funny because I could be wrong,

01:48:19.200 but I think I spent last week with Elizabeth Banks

01:48:22.140 where we went on vacation for our kids spring break.

01:48:27.160 Justin Timberlake was 100% there.

01:48:29.260 Yeah.

01:48:29.840 He's married to Jessica Biel, who we also saw.

01:48:32.180 And she was with a hot blonde 1.00

01:48:34.800 who looked remarkably like Elizabeth Banks. 1.00

01:48:37.220 And those two just starred together

01:48:38.560 in one of those Netflix, you know, docu-series or not a docu-series, but like a series. It was

01:48:43.700 really good. And she looks amazing. If it in fact was Elizabeth Banks, she looks awesome.

01:48:47.440 So you guys have both made it big. Probably was. I don't know, but all right. So then you parlay

01:48:53.940 that into a movie career. And so like you could act, you got a bunch of Emmy nominations,

01:48:58.680 won one, and then you decide there could be bigger things in store for me. I'm going to try my hand

01:49:05.100 at the big screen and not only do you get cast in big movies but like the transformers like you 1.00

01:49:11.160 can't that is that just an actor's utmost dream any man on earth would love to star in this no

01:49:17.200 yeah that was uh it was a big decision actually to leave all my children because i did it for

01:49:22.280 three years it was for the first time i felt like i had something i felt like i belonged in some way

01:49:29.320 although i it took me forever until recently to actually feel like i belonged in this business

01:49:33.860 because I felt like an outsider for so long, but to leave all my children,

01:49:39.120 because it was the first time I was in New York city, straight from North Dakota.

01:49:41.980 It was like, I was making a little money for the first time.

01:49:45.040 And they offered me a contract to stay for three more years.

01:49:48.580 And I decided, you know what? No, I'm going to, I'm going to,

01:49:51.060 I'm going to go try my hand and see what happens.

01:49:54.800 And I left and moved back to Los Angeles. And, and that shortly after that,

01:49:58.980 I got lost. I got Las Vegas. And then I got a win at eight with Ted Hamilton.

01:50:03.440 And then shortly after that was transformers. So, you know, it was, it was, you know, I guess

01:50:08.900 I just trusted that I could do it. It was a, it was a scary move at the time, but, um, you know,

01:50:15.820 I, I guess if I were to give advice to any young person out there, just believe that you can go do

01:50:21.360 it. You know, you just gotta, you really gotta just trust. But was that the before and after

01:50:25.200 like that? The transformers thing had to be like, where, okay, now everybody knows you.

01:50:30.580 that was that was a big one because that production was gigantic it was uh you know

01:50:37.280 michael bay had all the toys the helicopters and all the cameras and we had jets flying over we had

01:50:43.300 dod involved and we were on you know it was just it was because my stuff especially because i did

01:50:47.120 all the all the military stuff and so it was it was a big sort of collaboration with the u.s

01:50:54.180 military to pull all that off and they were really uh helpful in in doing all that so it was that

01:51:00.700 stuff in particular she was and it was like massive explosions everywhere and it was uh

01:51:05.180 it was unlike anything i'd done before so at the time i felt like it was i felt like a tiny cog in

01:51:12.640 a giant machine uh looking back at it now it was 10 i did four of them see one two three and i did

01:51:18.240 four of them. Uh, and you know, it was, it was, it was a huge boost to my career to say the least.

01:51:26.300 Well, of course, since we subjected you to the all my children clip, we will do the honor of

01:51:31.120 now playing a Transformers clip, the later version of Josh. Here it is.

01:51:39.120 F-22 is your steel weight.

01:51:40.960 Moma! 0.97

01:51:50.000 Incoming!

01:52:00.860 What's arm set is free?

01:52:04.680 Moma! 0.97

01:52:10.960 okay for the listening audience josh is decked out in his like camo with his uh bike and so on

01:52:30.960 and and i the question i have for you coming out of that is probably not the one you expect but

01:52:35.400 it seems to me if you get cast in a film like that which is testosterone central and you feel

01:52:40.940 like such a badass with the military and the guns and the camo and the pogs. And you're making it

01:52:47.380 big in Hollywood at the same time with the recognition going through the roof, it might be

01:52:51.520 a time for like church, God, a normie romantic partner, like something or someone to ground you

01:53:00.960 and remind you you're human. Don't get too big. Don't indulge too much in the excesses that are

01:53:07.040 now going to become available to you. Did that happen to you? Wow. What a, what a question,

01:53:12.160 million. So I'm so glad I'm here today. Um, it, it, uh, yeah, the truth is there are a lot of

01:53:19.700 pitfalls in this business and, you know, it, it, it, I'm not going to say I was perfect,

01:53:25.540 you know, but I did know that I, that none of this was real, you know, fame can come and go

01:53:34.200 as it can go as quickly as it comes. I did know that. And I have a really tight knit group of

01:53:40.040 friends back home and family that I leaned on heavily during those times. So I always stay

01:53:46.220 very close to North Dakota, very close to my friends. I got a group of 20 friends that were

01:53:50.840 still every day on a thread. So I think that helped me stay grounded. It helped me sort of

01:53:57.880 keep perspective on everything but you're right it can be it can be a lot you know and thankfully

01:54:04.220 if you go back to all my children and the the bit that I did before that you know it wasn't like it

01:54:09.180 all happened immediately it was like it was sort of a slow burn and it still feels like a slow burn

01:54:14.120 I don't feel like not any of it happened quickly but yeah I mean in in God family friends home

01:54:26.200 Those are all things that really sort of kept me and I think still keep me in this business

01:54:30.600 today because it's easy to burn out.

01:54:33.640 Well, I ask it because I spent a fair amount of time talking over the past year to Charlie

01:54:39.580 Sheen, and he's been so honest about his rocket propulsion to super fame and how he didn't

01:54:48.840 really have that force to ground him and really started to feel like I can do whatever the

01:54:53.980 hell I want.

01:54:54.520 There are absolutely no limitations on me, which was not good for him, right?

01:54:58.520 He's still dealing with the fallout from that.

01:55:00.420 So why, though, the temptation was there for you, didn't you succumb in the way my pal

01:55:07.500 Charlie did, Charlie Sheen, or others, you know, who are less able to say no to those

01:55:12.900 indulgences?

01:55:13.360 I don't know.

01:55:14.000 I'm probably not the, you know, the spokesperson for it, but I've had enough experience in

01:55:22.600 this business now to know that i was again very lucky to have a very tight-knit group of friends 0.95

01:55:28.200 uh a very a family that wasn't afraid to put my ass in check if i needed to be 0.86

01:55:33.780 um there you go but it can be it can be a very enticing uh an intoxicating thing you know because 0.98

01:55:42.720 you got a lot of stuff thrown at you and if you don't keep some kind of perspective on what

01:55:47.720 reality is and i always and i always knew this and i watched this growing up this before i even

01:55:53.340 wanted to get into the business is that i'd see guys rocket to stardom and then burn out quickly

01:55:58.120 um and i didn't want to be that guy i wanted to try to stay as humble and as appreciative

01:56:05.060 and also i had a lot of jobs before this i didn't get into this business until i was 27 or 8 years

01:56:10.260 old and so i worked construction i worked in warehouses i worked a lot of like grunt labor

01:56:16.580 jobs for a long time. And I think that that real life experience is great as those jobs are. I

01:56:23.820 didn't want to go back to them because I was, I felt so lucky to even be in this position. I still

01:56:27.420 do. So I think that, and it just reminds you, it reminds you of what real life is like.

01:56:32.240 One of the things I've noticed, you know, what happens in Hollywood, if you, if you succeed

01:56:39.340 is not only do you, you know, you become recognizable and the fans love you and all

01:56:43.860 that money, but then you get like an entourage that surrounds you with the most obsequious,

01:56:49.980 absurd messaging about how amazing you are, which I also think is a damaging force, right? It's like

01:56:55.880 your agent and your manager and like, whatever, it just seems like such a fawning, ridiculous, 1.00

01:57:01.800 I think the thing you said about having a family that's ready to kick your ass, 1.00

01:57:06.040 that's the best possible influence, no? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, 1.00

01:57:09.640 I think that that could, it's a good message for a lot of people in the entertainment business

01:57:15.240 these days. I just feel like, you know, because you have a platform doesn't mean that you get

01:57:18.240 to preach to everybody. Um, ah, thank you. Tell that to the Oscars. I think I, I honestly believe

01:57:25.400 that, you know, it's, we're very fortunate to be in this position and I spent a lot of time in the,

01:57:29.440 you know, in the Midwest. So I get to see what they actually think about, you know, us and

01:57:36.460 they're not afraid to tell me and you know i i have this i'll never forget this i was going to

01:57:44.440 play golf with a buddy in georgia about 10 years ago and he's uh he meets me at the airport with

01:57:52.260 a t-shirt that says uh nobody cares what actors think and i was like damn that's that's really

01:58:00.800 funny that's really good and that always stuck with me because it's true they don't i mean on

01:58:05.040 My job, and I don't, that's why I don't really take, I don't really, I have real strong opinions

01:58:09.820 about things, but I don't really talk about it because it's, it's like, why, you know,

01:58:13.360 why would I, you know, alienate half my audience?

01:58:16.820 Because I respect, I respect their views on things, but I'm not going to preach to them.

01:58:22.240 They can believe what they want to believe.

01:58:23.700 I'm just here to, you know, make cool stuff.

01:58:27.780 I mean, speaking from people who are more, you know, on the right side of the aisle,

01:58:31.820 I feel like that's all we want.

01:58:32.980 You don't need to share our points of view on the big issues of the day, but we do definitely do not want to be lectured by Hollywood leftists.

01:58:41.380 I don't think you're a leftist, but in any event, we don't want to be lectured about how we're worse than them because we don't share their values.

01:58:47.420 You know, it's like, I think more and more they're starting to get it.

01:58:50.160 You know, like a couple of actors and actresses have made public statements about how like, I don't want to alienate, you know, Jennifer Lawrence said it and she's been an outspoken progressive.

01:59:00.000 But she's like, I'm going to stop doing that because I don't actually want to alienate my fan base.

01:59:05.540 I'd like my art to speak for me.

01:59:07.580 We saw Sidney Sweeney, you know, declined to get drawn in when they made a controversy around her jeans ad.

01:59:14.080 And then we've seen it a couple of the awards show, not really the Oscars, but maybe it was the Globes before that.

01:59:18.680 A couple of the actors on the red carpet being like, I just want to act.

01:59:21.740 I don't want to talk politics.

01:59:23.980 Do you think this is a growing trend?

01:59:25.700 It should be.

01:59:26.360 i mean it it makes perfect sense i mean why would you why if you really want to be successful in

01:59:33.880 this business why would you make half of your audience despise you by your political beliefs

01:59:39.360 um maybe they don't care i don't know i mean i i i i look at it as a business decision

01:59:45.740 you know i want i want i'm here just to make cool movies cool tv i'm here to make

01:59:51.720 cool stuff. And that's my, I'm the court jester. You know, if I want to, if I want to preach to

01:59:56.860 you about what I believe politically, I'll go run for office, which I'm not going to do, by the way.

02:00:01.000 Yes. Thank you. Or you can just email me. It's fine. It's Megan at MeganKelley.com.

02:00:06.700 In the midst of this crazy, successful career and life, you found time to marry one of the

02:00:13.820 most famous people on earth, the singer Fergie. And how did that change life for you?

02:00:21.720 Uh, it was, it was, it was a big, it was a, you know, it was a huge sort of shift because

02:00:29.820 suddenly I was, and she was a massive star at the time. And, and so it was a, it was a big

02:00:36.000 adjustment for me if I'm being honest. Uh, but you know, for instance, a very normal person at

02:00:41.860 the end of the day, good mom. Uh, we have a great relationship. Do you have to navigate the like

02:00:46.860 whose star is bigger and how does that make the other star feel like a lot of hollywood

02:00:53.300 actors who are in a you know a joint relationship have spoken of that dynamic yeah probably

02:00:59.300 it's it's probably my own ego more than anything i don't think it bugged her as much as it probably

02:01:03.880 did me um but you know she was she was a massive star at the time and it was a it was suddenly

02:01:11.160 you're you're you're uh sort of in that shadow a lot of times but at the same time is there the

02:01:18.200 same fear when you're when you're a man married to a female singer who's such a star is there's

02:01:22.820 the same fear as like a woman would have when married to a male rock star like he's going to

02:01:28.860 cheat on me because he has thousands of women throwing themselves at his feet is it like that

02:01:34.500 when the the spouse is a woman like does that happen to the female stars i don't know 0.61

02:01:39.780 i don't know the answer to that question it never crossed your mind

02:01:43.360 i don't know uh this is what's good about being josh damell you're like we're good

02:01:49.140 listen fergan i have a great relationship we we we we parent our son axel uh she's a great mom

02:01:58.240 i'm extremely happily married now with uh to my wife audra uh we have a beautiful son and a little

02:02:05.920 girl on the way. Um, and they have a great relationship with, which is what I really

02:02:10.040 care about is making sure that everybody's just copacetic. You know, I just want, I just want

02:02:13.840 peace. Uh, and I don't want to be infighting between everybody. And I think that, you know,

02:02:19.040 they've all been thankfully very civil in the way they approach this whole thing.

02:02:25.540 Well, it says a lot about all of you that you've managed to navigate that one. Cause that's,

02:02:28.940 that can be, that can be, it can go another way as you know, but thankfully it's not.

02:02:33.540 yeah that's that's amazing so now you've got a new baby this will be your first girl coming

02:02:39.420 yeah i got a little girl on the way all right so how are we feeling about that and about the pony

02:02:44.940 i had you know what's what's scarier about raising a girl i grew up with three sisters so

02:02:51.300 i knew that uh i i just figured i was i was gonna have girls you know i had a

02:02:56.320 my dog was a girl my three sisters were a girl i was you know everything around me was female

02:03:01.320 know and when i found out that i was gonna have a son axel it it almost surprised me

02:03:08.000 and then again when i had shepherd i was like well i'm a i'm a boy dad so when we when we found

02:03:15.200 out that we're having this little girl i think that it was i'm just i'm just i just can't wait

02:03:21.420 to meet her you know i just there's i think there's something about girls that is so different

02:03:26.180 than boys you know um i think that you know she's got a great mother audrey's an amazing mother

02:03:33.640 and you know i'm just excited to to meet her and and you know i don't know what to expect you tell

02:03:40.380 me you have you have two sons and a daughter right yeah i expect you to be putty in her hands 0.96

02:03:46.000 my daughter's the middle child okay but i expect yeah i expect she will rock your world

02:03:51.200 and I've, in my experience, at least girls come into the world knowing a lot, like she will know

02:03:57.320 a lot and have strong opinions, probably at an earlier age than your boys, they get there,

02:04:02.500 but it takes them longer. And I don't know, she's sort of like arrived as sort of a boss, 0.97

02:04:08.320 you know what I mean? Like together and with strong opinions and like good advice to give.

02:04:13.080 And it's, it's just totally different than the boys. You know, I think you'll find

02:04:18.000 it a completely different experience of course it's still parenthood but like girls are very 1.00

02:04:22.620 different and well they're more evolved super fun in their own way now my my girl's about to turn 15

02:04:27.600 so she's at like that age where like they get more assertive and you know the parents are more

02:04:33.240 of a liability than they are but like we're still good and it's it is very different from the boys

02:04:37.920 so i'm so thrilled you're gonna have both experiences yeah me too you know i i feel like

02:04:41.240 boys are just girls are just more evolved than boys honestly boys are like little cavemen my

02:04:46.840 little two-year-old is truly a cave you've seen the movie the last dinosaur spike that little

02:04:51.880 caveman yes yes right you know and i think that you know girls just have they're just they can 1.00

02:04:58.440 sit and they can play and they can focus on things where boys are just like all over the place

02:05:03.160 well i always think of the movie parenthood where the the little one is like ramming his head into

02:05:09.300 the wall with a bucket on it you know your boy will definitely do that you don't totally understand

02:05:14.340 why, but somehow it's meaningful to him. Meanwhile, your girl's doing like trigonometry. So I look

02:05:19.120 forward to that experience for you. Now, speaking of girls, is that your inspo? Because you started 1.00

02:05:23.480 a company, you didn't need to do this. You're sustaining your lifestyle, I'm sure with your

02:05:27.840 acting, but you just, you started like a, like a wellness brand focused first on men. And now just

02:05:36.480 in time for your baby girl, you're expanding it to women. So tell us what is the brand? What has

02:05:42.360 it been doing for men and why the expansion yes by popular demand we are now offering to women and

02:05:47.380 so the the way the company started was uh it's called gatlin uh and a friend of mine my co-founder

02:05:55.040 fabian calvo came to me with this idea to is like at the time was just a testosterone replacement

02:05:59.940 therapy company and i was like no way no way am i going to be in the face of a testosterone

02:06:05.380 replacement they all i do it but i'm not going to tell people that it's my dirty little secret

02:06:09.580 it. And, and the more I thought about it, the more I thought, you know what, this is really

02:06:16.260 improved my life in a lot of ways. It's helped me stay young and active and all the things that

02:06:22.600 it does. And I thought, why not be the guy that, that, that, you know, shines a light on this

02:06:29.040 thing and makes it okay for people to talk about. It doesn't have to be something taboo.

02:06:32.680 and we've built this beautiful company we've got uh you know it's fully concierge the website

02:06:39.800 just dropped the new website just dropped today uh we're now fully concierge so you have

02:06:46.160 fully guided uh licensed medical experts uh there to help with whatever questions you have

02:06:53.020 and what's the website it's called gatlin gatlin.com and megan the beautiful thing is i watched

02:07:00.100 you and commissioner fda commissioner marty mccary talk about hrt for women and that was one of the

02:07:08.380 impetuses for us to to get into the female space because i didn't know all this stuff i didn't 0.99

02:07:13.220 realize and also there was a girl that i work with on ransom canyon who was having troubles with

02:07:18.600 testosterone believe it or not um and some of her hormone levels were low and she talks about this

02:07:24.620 to me she doesn't tell anybody but she talked to me about it when she knew we had this company

02:07:27.920 and how that changed her life.

02:07:30.300 And I just thought, you know what?

02:07:31.700 We got to get into this space

02:07:32.760 because there's so many women out there 1.00

02:07:34.620 that can benefit from this.

02:07:37.360 HRT, you know, whether it's estrogen or progesterone

02:07:41.240 or even testosterone for women,

02:07:43.540 you know, naturally these things that we produce

02:07:45.720 start to taper off as we get older.

02:07:48.040 And there's so much science behind it now

02:07:50.840 that it really can prolong your youth.

02:07:54.360 It can keep you young.

02:07:55.440 It can keep you active.

02:07:56.660 It can keep you looking good.

02:07:57.920 It's cognitive, it's bone density, it's weight gain.

02:08:03.600 It's all these different things that they found

02:08:05.640 that actually can really improve your quality of life.

02:08:09.220 And I think that that's really why I got into this

02:08:12.200 was why not spread the word about it?

02:08:15.240 Yes, the brain fog, also sex drive.

02:08:18.500 I mean, this is like, I know you're married

02:08:20.560 to a young woman, but I would say like,

02:08:22.260 when you get into your 50s,

02:08:23.620 this can be an issue for a lot of women. 1.00

02:08:25.320 It doesn't tend to ever become an issue for men

02:08:27.540 until much later, but like there can be a mismatch and it's hormones, like go regulate your hormones,

02:08:33.780 talk to a hormones doctor, go to Gatlin, look into whether, you know, what are your levels?

02:08:39.240 How's your estrogen? How's your testosterone? Cause women have a certain level of testosterone 1.00

02:08:42.580 that wanes as we get older. And there's lots of things you can do. You can do like a cream there's,

02:08:48.240 but if you get even just your estrogen and your progesterone back to like good levels,

02:08:52.980 the drive can be restored and that issue can not just be something that you have to live with.

02:08:59.600 These are things that we don't talk about enough. But I want to stay for a second on the

02:09:03.580 testosterone for men because one of my guys who works security for me, he's also a huge fan. Now

02:09:10.740 he's younger, he's like 41 and he loves it too. What do you love about it? Like why should a man 0.90

02:09:17.200 be thinking about going on testosterone? Well, I think it's the same for all of us. As we get

02:09:21.060 older these these these these things that we actually naturally produce taper off and a lot

02:09:26.340 of guys you know starting in their late 30s uh that those levels start to fall off and you can

02:09:33.120 you can supplement that with testosterone replacement therapy for women it's you know

02:09:37.760 estrogen progesterone and even testosterone and you can actually maintain that youthful vigor that

02:09:44.660 you had in your 20s in early 30s and you can you don't have to go through what is traditionally

02:09:52.440 seen as perimenopause i mean eventually everything happens but you can definitely

02:09:58.260 prolong it and for me testosterone um you know muscle it helps you keep muscle on it it keeps

02:10:06.040 it helps me stay athletic uh sex drive um you know all those things that just make me feel

02:10:13.640 because I got, like I said, like we just talked about, I got young kids. I want to be able to

02:10:17.480 roll around in the dirt with them for as long as possible. I need to stay as young as possible for

02:10:21.900 them as anything, you know, I want it. I want, I want my career to go as long as possible,

02:10:26.960 but you know, for my kids, they need me and I need to be as, as, uh, as, as present as possible.

02:10:35.160 Yes. I love it. I have to say, so I'm, I'm doing HRT and I love it. And I will say like,

02:10:41.300 it's resolved so many things like that were going wrong with me that I had no idea were hormone

02:10:46.780 related. Like I had very annoying dry eye and it's gone. Like it's completely resolved. The

02:10:53.960 dry is like crazy. Who, who knew that that was related to hormones and other weird things that

02:10:58.740 suddenly are no longer present. You feel better. You look better. Your skin is better. You feel

02:11:03.400 more vibrant. The brain fog, like there's so many advantages to it, but people don't want to talk

02:11:07.600 about it because I don't know, it's a sign of getting older or for some, you know, you say

02:11:12.520 testosterone and you're like, what's going on down South? Well, no, like it, it'll help you

02:11:16.880 everywhere, including there, but like, there's no shame in getting older and having these things

02:11:21.720 happen. And you saying, no, I refuse. I'm going down swinging. Yeah. Well, I mean, you look

02:11:27.020 amazing, Megan. I mean, if, if anybody was a perfect poster child for, for HRT, it's, it's

02:11:34.700 you you really do look incredible and i think that it's i think that it's uh you know it's it's true

02:11:39.860 i mean all those things you just mentioned you can actually they're in the there's science

02:11:44.700 behind it the data is there this stuff works and you know get your levels checked uh find out

02:11:52.580 exactly what you where you're at we have a whole uh fleet of licensed medical experts the best in

02:12:01.080 the world that can walk you through this because you know it's a scary thing to get into in the

02:12:04.920 first you know the first you know just to step into it for the first time so uh you know we're

02:12:11.440 fully concierge uh we can we can walk you through this uh we have all the products all the products

02:12:17.980 are made right here or compounded right here in the u.s too so you're getting what you're buying

02:12:24.420 whereas some of these companies you don't know and that's why i think the fda is coming down on

02:12:28.580 some of these companies is because you can't just click and just have you know glp one center you

02:12:34.460 got to have a doctor sort of guiding you through this and helping you making sure that you're

02:12:38.060 getting what you're ordering and so we have the best products we have the best experts to help

02:12:42.880 them through it and um i'm so grateful i'm so grateful that you are an advocate for women and

02:12:49.460 a proponent of this stuff honestly well don't you think that we are it's the dawn of a new day

02:12:54.860 Like the days of accepting your traditional medicine doctor

02:12:58.820 being like, you're getting older, deal with it, are done.

02:13:02.280 Like, no, there are all sorts of options

02:13:05.660 when it comes to hormones or peptides

02:13:07.500 or what have you, supplements,

02:13:08.660 that can actually make you feel better, look better,

02:13:12.800 and weirdly, actually be biologically younger.

02:13:18.400 I mean, it's what, what's his name?

02:13:21.160 Brian, why can't I remember his last name?

02:13:22.880 The crazy guy online, he's been on the show,

02:13:24.400 who's refusing to age, but there are real life Johnson, Brian Johnson, real life options for

02:13:32.740 you to fight. It's not to say we're all winding up in the same place eventually, but you can look

02:13:38.660 good and feel good for so much longer thanks to this sort of, I don't know if you'd call it

02:13:43.220 alternative medicine. I think it's regular medicine that's just been looked down on for so

02:13:48.080 long. And I'll tell you something else, Josh, you know, you have to get the mammograms as you get

02:13:53.700 older. Um, and I, one of my doctors said to me, like, you know, um, getting older is not a disease.

02:14:01.540 Okay. I accept that, but you also don't have to go down without a fight. Like you can actually

02:14:07.900 stay looking, feeling, and in a way being younger for even longer. If you just do a little research,

02:14:14.120 check out Gatlin, talk to a hormones doctor, what have you, right? I mean, you're feeling it. And so

02:14:18.540 am I. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I couldn't have said it better myself. That's amazing. It's,

02:14:22.380 you know and the beauty of it is is once you once you get your levels checked you find out that

02:14:26.840 you're low and whatever and you get and you regulate to where you were in your 20s or 30s

02:14:32.500 whatever it is you start to look better you start to feel better which makes you want to eat better

02:14:36.540 which makes you want to work out which makes you a better sister brother mother son daughter it

02:14:43.340 just it just elevates you in my opinion because you feel so much better about yourself and because

02:14:49.060 of that you're willing to do the things you have that oomph that you didn't have that you've been

02:14:53.180 sort of falling off of for the last several years so uh yeah i recommend people get get their levels

02:14:58.980 checked um come to gatlin.com and we can we can we can get you back to the year you used to be

02:15:05.600 next thing you know you too could marry someone like the 32 year old audrey 1.00

02:15:11.100 this is all you have to do. Go to Gatlin.com and your life is going to improve. Josh,

02:15:19.900 I loved meeting you. Um, I want to tell the audience that you, your team has given our

02:15:24.080 audience a special offer, uh, for, to get 20% off your purchase. If you use the code MK at Gatlin.com

02:15:31.360 when you check out. So that's great. You get 20% off. Thanks so much for being MK 20, MK 20. Thank

02:15:36.200 you so much for being here. Megan, what a pleasure. I've been a fan for a very long time.

02:15:41.100 Oh, I'm grateful. And good luck with the movie, too. Everybody's got to check that out. Preschool was just released on St. Patrick's Day. What a guy, right? What a great guy. Thanks to all of you for joining us today. We will see you tomorrow. We'll do it all over again then.

02:15:57.060 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 25, 2026

Truth About Kirk Investigation and Robinson Trial, Iran Questions, with Curt Mills, and Josh Duhamel on Keeping Politics Out of Hollywood ｜ Ep. 1281

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