The Megyn Kelly Show - Truth About SCOTUS and Trump, EPA Fraud Uncovered, and Tariff Drama, with Lee Zeldin, Tom Bevan, and Carl Cannon ｜ Ep. 1045

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:12.080 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.280 President Trump's tariffs are now in effect and the media is seizing the moment to fan the flames of doom and gloom. 0.99

00:00:22.400 This is Trump says countries are calling him up and quote, kissing his ass, trying to make a deal. 0.98

00:00:27.700 Also, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem finds another chance for a bizarre photo op. 0.99

00:00:34.740 She's very obsessed with having her flowing locks appear out of her little baseball caps as she tries to appear like a tough guy, 1.00

00:00:42.940 holding a gun in a way that's inappropriate and potentially dangerous.

00:00:47.300 And I just, I'm over it. I'm really over it.

00:00:49.760 Could you just please be the DHS Secretary and stand by Trump's agenda and stop trying to make it about you and your weird glam shots?

00:00:59.120 Later in the show, we're going to be joined for the first time by Lee Zeldin.

00:01:02.800 I'm actually really looking forward to this.

00:01:04.100 He's administrator of the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency.

00:01:07.380 They're doing a lot right now, man.

00:01:08.680 They're embattled.

00:01:10.200 You know, the left, that's one of their pet causes. 0.88

00:01:12.620 And Lee Zeldin is like, he's a tough mofo. 1.00

00:01:16.080 He's like, bring it.

00:01:17.760 So it's going to be fun to talk to him.

00:01:19.820 But we're going to start in a minute with a real clear politics crew.

00:01:23.560 I'll bring them on in one sec.

00:01:24.680 But I'm going to start with a legal update for you.

00:01:28.540 Because one of the cases that we've been discussing at length here on this program

00:01:33.660 is this case involving the Venezuelan gangs and Trump's effort to deport them using the Alien Enemies Act.

00:01:40.500 And we didn't get to this yesterday because we did Maha with Dr. Mark Hyman.

00:01:45.120 Well worth your time if you haven't seen that episode.

00:01:47.040 But I really wanted to talk about what happened at the Supreme Court.

00:01:49.980 So Trump won.

00:01:51.860 He's allowed to resume the deportations of these suspected gang members.

00:01:57.760 There is a silver lining of sorts for his opponents.

00:02:03.700 They will be getting more due process than they had been.

00:02:07.840 But make no mistake about it, Trump won this battle.

00:02:12.580 And it was for really important reasons.

00:02:14.760 And while I've watched the media coverage over the past two days,

00:02:18.200 I've seen what I think are in some cases dishonest declarations of victory by the left.

00:02:24.180 And in other cases, just probably misinformed declarations of victory by the left.

00:02:29.700 I think Trump got virtually everything he wanted.

00:02:33.000 I mean, really, he got everything he wanted in this Supreme Court ruling.

00:02:38.320 The one point on which the Trump administration, quote, lost or like didn't, I don't know,

00:02:45.360 didn't get a sweeping declaration allowing them to proceed unbridled,

00:02:50.240 was on a point they had already conceded in their appellate briefs.

00:02:54.320 And it was whether these detainees have the right to any due process at all.

00:03:00.320 And the Trump administration's briefs, the DOJ in their briefs, had admitted,

00:03:05.560 yes, they do get some due process.

00:03:08.560 But it's about as minimal as one can demand under the law.

00:03:13.000 It's not the full due process you or I would get.

00:03:16.200 Let's say, God forbid, we got arrested and had to defend ourselves in criminal court.

00:03:20.180 So it is something much closer to what we give your average suspected illegal before we kick

00:03:27.680 them out of the United States.

00:03:29.040 You can file what's known as a habeas petition and go to immigration court.

00:03:34.580 You don't have the right to counsel.

00:03:36.480 You don't have really any of the rights that you would have, as we understand that term due

00:03:41.440 process in our criminal courts.

00:03:43.220 So it is not the level of protection that the detainees, the alleged gang members, lawyers,

00:03:49.780 the ACLU wanted nowhere near.

00:03:54.180 It is the level that the Trump administration had said, at best, this is what they get.

00:03:59.960 But it's also true.

00:04:01.820 It is a level above what was actually afforded.

00:04:05.060 We we believe to most of these immigrants in this case.

00:04:08.400 I actually remain a little confused on that, to be honest with you, because we deported

00:04:13.660 a bunch of people who we said are gang members, Tom Homan, even yesterday, saying, let me assure

00:04:20.120 you, ICE has investigated all the people who are who are on these flights and is without

00:04:26.380 doubt that they are Trenda Aragua gang members from Venezuela, like period.

00:04:32.580 They're not waffling.

00:04:33.740 They're not saying maybe that's what he is saying.

00:04:36.600 And many of the people who were removed, at least on that third flight, were not deported

00:04:43.380 under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:04:44.940 They were just deported because they had removal proceedings already and they failed.

00:04:49.360 They failed to contest their removal orders.

00:04:53.500 You know, an immigration judge listened to them and said, get out.

00:04:57.700 You don't have the right to be here.

00:04:59.320 I don't know whether they were gang members or what was adjudicated.

00:05:01.600 But the point is that immigration judges had already heard them out and said, you failed

00:05:07.060 to convince me you don't get asylum.

00:05:09.440 You have no right to be here.

00:05:10.860 Leave. 0.99

00:05:11.460 But what's been happening under the Biden administration is then there's no step to step

00:05:15.760 to there.

00:05:16.760 So it's like, get out.

00:05:18.020 Then they walk out the back of the courthouse and nobody looks for them.

00:05:21.160 No one stops them.

00:05:22.160 There's no bus.

00:05:23.180 There's no plane.

00:05:24.020 And then they continue living here.

00:05:26.840 So what's happened under Trump is we're not finding all those people.

00:05:30.660 Tom Homan's finding all those people who do have lawful orders of removal.

00:05:35.680 And at least some of them wound up on that third plane and were shipped out to El Salvador.

00:05:42.540 Bye.

00:05:43.360 Who cares?

00:05:44.620 Goodbye.

00:05:45.740 We could have put them right back into U.S. prisons.

00:05:49.680 We could have continued detaining them in U.S. prisons.

00:05:53.120 We didn't.

00:05:54.360 We let them go out the back door and now we shipped them off to Venezuela. 0.84

00:05:58.360 So the only ones who are controversial, I mean, everyone's controversial to the left,

00:06:02.860 but between us normal people, are the ones who are said to be Venezuelan gang members,

00:06:09.520 but haven't had a hearing, who Trump rounded up through Homan, et cetera, and put on planes

00:06:16.960 and shipped off to El Salvador, some two plane loads of them.

00:06:20.700 And now it's going to resume, but under the Supreme Court ruling, they're going to have

00:06:25.660 to, if the immigrants demand it, provide them with notice that this is why they're being 0.99

00:06:30.640 removed and the opportunity for a habeas review, which again is something that happens in an

00:06:37.300 immigration court and provides a very low level of due process.

00:06:41.740 Now, you would not know that if you've watched or read a lot of the media coverage.

00:06:48.180 On the one hand, they want to lament the evil Supreme Court that side with Trump,

00:06:53.380 sided with Trump to allow the resumption of deportations that pulled the case away from

00:06:59.200 the very strange Judge Boesberg, who really wants you to call him President Boesberg.

00:07:04.760 Um, and that guy lost jurisdiction of this case.

00:07:08.960 Ha ha.

00:07:09.800 The Supreme Court was really clear on that and said, um, wherever this is going to get

00:07:14.100 decided for these immigrants, it's not going to be in Washington, DC.

00:07:17.480 You have to decide these habeas claims in the jurisdiction in which the detainee is being

00:07:22.240 held. 1.00

00:07:22.960 That's Texas, you idiots. 1.00

00:07:25.620 And that's what Trump had been saying all along. 1.00

00:07:27.580 But the ACLU, they didn't like that.

00:07:31.540 They knew exactly how things were going to go for them down on a Texas habeas court.

00:07:35.100 And I think we all know, I don't dispute it.

00:07:37.940 Not a lot, not, not, not, uh, the same as it's going to go in front of Judge Boesberg

00:07:42.960 in a civil case, um, a class action, which they brought, they knew exactly how to play

00:07:48.580 this, right?

00:07:49.520 Get it in front of this now leftist judge.

00:07:51.820 He wasn't always on the left.

00:07:52.860 He was originally a Bush appointee, but got elevated to the federal bench by Obama.

00:07:58.500 And, um, and they, they played Judge Boesberg to perfection.

00:08:03.540 He did exactly what they wanted at every turn.

00:08:05.380 He gave them hook, line and sinker, what they wanted and ruled against the government at

00:08:09.020 every turn.

00:08:09.500 And now the Supreme court has said, this was forum shopping.

00:08:12.120 This does not belong in the DC district court.

00:08:14.300 Judge Boesberg does not have jurisdiction.

00:08:16.080 Goodbye.

00:08:16.680 You've lost it all, sir, including they didn't rule this way, but it's going to be as well 0.99

00:08:21.020 as his stupid contempt hearing for the government. 0.99

00:08:24.300 And he's lost jurisdiction of this case. 0.99

00:08:25.980 It's going down to Texas, if at all.

00:08:28.520 Now these individual plaintiffs, really, there's only five individual plaintiffs in this case

00:08:31.940 are going to have to refile habeas claims in Texas.

00:08:35.500 And just let me tell you what they did.

00:08:37.000 Okay.

00:08:38.000 It's so annoying as I watch everybody misrepresent the facts of this case. 0.99

00:08:40.700 It drives me fucking nuts. 0.74

00:08:42.460 Anyway, what happened was these five plaintiffs, they, they filed a class action purportedly 0.97

00:08:48.080 representing, you know, all immigrants who fall under the alien enemies act.

00:08:52.500 But the way it works is there are five who are named who you deal with.

00:08:56.780 Those five have never been deported.

00:08:58.460 They got pulled off of these planes pursuant to judge Boesberg's order.

00:09:02.660 Those five originally filed a habeas action.

00:09:06.940 Only they did it in DC.

00:09:08.220 And that was 100% because the plaintiffs, the ACLU and so on, they wanted to get a judge

00:09:12.880 like Boesberg.

00:09:13.560 They're all like Judge Boesberg at the DC federal court level.

00:09:18.500 So they filed a habeas position.

00:09:20.260 They knew that the case was going to be limited to habeas given the nature that these are immigrants. 1.00

00:09:25.260 But they tried to swing for the fences by also making it into a class action and saying,

00:09:30.180 Trump has violated the Administrative Procedures Act, which is a federal act.

00:09:35.140 And that would have potentially kept it in DC in front of this DC judge.

00:09:39.700 Well, the DC judge understood, I think, that that was probably a no-go zone, that the latter

00:09:45.500 claim, I mean, he probably knew.

00:09:47.220 But in any event, he definitely knew that if it was a habeas case, it was probably going

00:09:52.100 to have to stay in Texas, be refiled in Texas.

00:09:54.780 So he said to them, you sure you want to keep the habeas piece of this?

00:09:59.780 You sure?

00:10:00.380 Like, might be better for you if that weren't in here.

00:10:02.620 In response to which the ACLU said, if we need to get rid of the habeas, we'll do it, 0.75

00:10:08.760 judge.

00:10:09.100 We'll do it.

00:10:10.340 So he was like, wink, wink.

00:10:12.740 Yeah, you should do it.

00:10:13.400 So they dropped the habeas part of their petition and just kept it a class action based on the

00:10:17.420 civil claim, which kind of removed the specter of the Texas court from, you know, luring over

00:10:25.800 them as they litigated before their very favorite judge, Judge Boesberg, with the illegal immigrant

00:10:32.240 activist daughter who works for these groups trying to maintain presence in the United

00:10:38.260 States, even if they're gang members, illegal gang members, no conflict.

00:10:42.560 OK, so they proceed in front of Boesberg and they get everything they want.

00:10:45.480 But then by the time it made it up to the appellate court level, and I haven't gone back to look

00:10:51.560 at all the briefs at the district court level, but definitely by the time it made it onto

00:10:54.560 appeal, the U.S.

00:10:56.080 government was saying a couple of things.

00:10:58.240 One, the reviewability of the Alien Enemies Act is very limited.

00:11:05.020 Go look at that case from 1948.

00:11:06.760 This is a 1798 statute.

00:11:08.800 But go look at that 1948 case, Ludecky.

00:11:11.820 In that case, the court, I've read you the excerpts many times, says it's almost not

00:11:17.140 reviewable.

00:11:17.700 There's a couple of small things that we could review, but they're limited.

00:11:21.520 And that's because we shouldn't be deciding political questions in the judicial branch.

00:11:26.820 And a question about, you know, invasion and whether we need to ban certain groups of

00:11:31.880 people from the United States, that's up to the president, not up to unelected judges.

00:11:37.360 So the government maintained that very, very limited justiciability over this act.

00:11:44.780 That was number one.

00:11:46.280 And number two, they do not in any world deserve the same due process as, you know, an American 0.93

00:11:53.400 citizen would get.

00:11:54.780 Okay.

00:11:55.040 So that was number two.

00:11:56.300 And that, but then they, they made clear to the courts, but they can, the government conceded

00:12:01.520 they can have due process in a habeas proceeding.

00:12:06.440 Okay.

00:12:06.880 So what did the Supreme court decide the other day?

00:12:10.100 Literally exactly what the Trump administration had been arguing.

00:12:15.080 I mean, I pulled it here just for some of the quotes.

00:12:18.040 Okay.

00:12:18.180 They say, let's see, this is from the U S Supreme court's decision the other day.

00:12:23.060 Um, they say, first of all, we grant the application of the government of the DOJ.

00:12:27.760 We vacate the temporary restraining orders that judge Bozberg entered.

00:12:31.420 They say the detainees, um, want equitable relief against this alien enemies act proclamation,

00:12:38.860 and they don't want to be removed under this alien enemies act.

00:12:42.300 They challenge the government's interpretation of the act and assert that they do not fall

00:12:46.340 within the category of removable alien enemies.

00:12:49.020 They say, we do not reach those arguments challenges to removal under the alien enemies

00:12:54.640 act, a statute, which largely precludes judicial review, citing Ludecky must be brought in habeas.

00:13:04.360 So here's the court saying, if you have a challenge, you have to bring it in habeas.

00:13:08.420 And they get to later saying that means Texas here, but they noticed they, they know

00:13:12.280 in their own opinion that this statute quote, largely precludes judicial review.

00:13:18.540 The court didn't have to get to what pieces of it are precluded entirely because they, they,

00:13:25.320 they didn't really have to go there in this piece, but here's some more of what they did

00:13:30.040 say.

00:13:30.280 They touched on it.

00:13:31.000 They go on to say, although judicial review under the alien enemies act is limited, we have

00:13:37.100 held that an individual subject to detention and removal under the statute isn't

00:13:42.260 entitled to judicial review as to questions of interpretation and constitutionality of

00:13:49.420 the act.

00:13:49.980 So if you want to say this whole act is unconstitutional, you can bring that and interpretation of the

00:13:55.860 act.

00:13:56.160 Like, what does it mean?

00:13:57.580 A court is allowed to, to speak to that.

00:13:59.860 This is what it means.

00:14:00.680 It means the president can invoke it when there's been an act of war and invasion and incursion.

00:14:07.220 And there's still an open debate about whether the court can second guess a president's decision

00:14:14.020 that an invasion has happened.

00:14:16.540 That has not yet been decided.

00:14:18.720 And, you know, we'll see how that turns out.

00:14:21.320 I've argued that they, they should not second guess that.

00:14:23.800 How can a court decide what an invasion is more than a president?

00:14:27.040 We've had smart legal scholars come on and say they disagree.

00:14:29.680 So we'll, that one's still up for grabs.

00:14:32.200 And then you, they say you can also have a court review whether an individual is in fact

00:14:37.420 an alien enemy, 14 years of age or older.

00:14:40.820 That was what we said.

00:14:42.340 That's what the law said.

00:14:43.980 But Trump's order basically just said anybody who's a Trenda Aragua member from Venezuela

00:14:48.600 and over 14, he said alien enemies defined to include all Venezuelan citizens, 14 years

00:14:55.920 of age or older, who are members of Trenda Aragua within the United States and not actually

00:15:00.580 naturalized or lawful permanent residents of the United States.

00:15:03.480 Okay.

00:15:04.220 So basically what they're saying is detainees are entitled to notice and an opportunity to

00:15:10.580 be heard appropriate to the nature of the case.

00:15:13.520 And what that means here is habeas.

00:15:15.040 They say the notice must be afforded within a reasonable time and in such a manner as

00:15:20.080 will allow them to actually seek habeas relief in the proper venue before such removal occurs.

00:15:25.380 Okay.

00:15:25.520 That didn't happen here.

00:15:26.640 They were, they were not given that here.

00:15:28.520 So that's progress.

00:15:29.940 That's some progress for the ACLU.

00:15:31.540 Now they definitely have something in writing saying it has to happen beforehand and that'll

00:15:35.940 happen now.

00:15:36.540 But again, the government had already conceded that point in its briefs saying we'll do that.

00:15:42.080 But let's just be clear on what's happening here.

00:15:44.760 This is not in any way what the ACLU wanted.

00:15:49.080 They wanted a full due process style, um, grant that would mirror what you or I would get

00:15:58.380 in a criminal court before these people got labeled Venezuelan gang members and shipped

00:16:04.040 off to El Salvador.

00:16:05.000 And the court has made really clear that's not going to happen.

00:16:08.100 And you don't have to take my word for it.

00:16:12.480 The advocate groups for the illegals themselves are making really clear that they're unhappy

00:16:18.020 with this decision.

00:16:20.440 So the media may want to tell you that the Trump administration got slapped for not providing

00:16:25.060 more due process.

00:16:25.880 That's not what happened.

00:16:26.720 They said they deserve a little, a little more due process.

00:16:31.500 But here's, for example, um, the reaction from some of the, uh, immigrant groups who

00:16:37.360 have been, the representatives who have been speaking out about this.

00:16:39.700 First of all, uh, it's, they point out that the Supreme court has ruled that due process

00:16:45.880 and immigration cases is not the same as in criminal cases.

00:16:49.480 Uh, you get notice and opportunity to be heard and that's it.

00:16:52.960 You don't get a lawyer.

00:16:54.140 You don't get all this stuff guaranteed to you.

00:16:55.560 But here's an organization, uh, Vera, V E R A.org that says, okay, the Supreme court affirmed 0.94

00:17:02.900 notice and hearing are required.

00:17:05.380 So good, but they limited it to these small procedural safeguards.

00:17:12.700 And they said these limited procedural safeguards, uh, do little to blunt the harm to immigrant

00:17:20.920 communities who will have no meaningful way to defend their rights.

00:17:26.120 The Supreme court's affirmation of due process rights in the habeas context is entirely quote

00:17:33.400 hollow.

00:17:34.960 So that's where we are.

00:17:37.340 It's interesting to me because even in Sonia Sotomayor's dissent, she tries to overstate

00:17:42.600 what the court has held.

00:17:44.280 Like, well, look, we have to be really clear now.

00:17:46.520 Everybody's getting total due process and we can review any poor part.

00:17:50.920 Of the alien enemies act that we want.

00:17:52.940 I mean, she totally overstates what the majority actually held in its opinion.

00:17:56.660 What they actually held was there's limited review and very limited review under the alien

00:18:03.100 enemies act.

00:18:04.760 And when it comes, it's going to have to come in a, in the context of a habeas proceeding

00:18:09.280 that must be followed filed in the jurisdiction in which the, the complaining person is being

00:18:16.640 held.

00:18:17.260 That's it.

00:18:18.300 This is a very good ruling for Trump.

00:18:20.300 Now, what he, what he has to do is basically give these people notice.

00:18:24.720 If they do not say, I want a habeas proceeding and let's face it, not all these illegals who 1.00

00:18:31.160 are getting rounded up are in contact with the ACLU.

00:18:34.560 Then he can ship them out.

00:18:35.680 He actually can ship them right out.

00:18:37.460 But if they demand a hate, a habeas proceeding, they, they will get, go to immigration court

00:18:42.340 where they will not be entitled to counsel.

00:18:44.500 They will probably be representing themselves and they will be up against the government who

00:18:48.600 says, or Tom Homan type people.

00:18:50.420 This is why I think he's a Venezuelan gang member, immigration court judge.

00:18:54.720 And more than likely they will be on the next plane to El Salvador.

00:18:57.880 That's how this is going to go.

00:18:59.700 Sorry if you don't like it, but that's how it's going to go.

00:19:02.440 They have very low, little due process rights.

00:19:06.400 That's been the law for a long, long time.

00:19:09.160 And while Trump may have pushed the boundaries of just how little, little means, he's gotten

00:19:16.140 a very, very favorable ruling here.

00:19:18.120 And you can bet there's going to be a bunch more, there's going to be many more planes

00:19:23.160 that are going to be taken off with Venezuelan illegals very soon. 0.60

00:19:27.100 By the way, Judge Bosberg, you know, he was about to hold the Trump administration in

00:19:31.980 contempt for sending those first two planes, notwithstanding the fact that he had issued

00:19:35.660 an oral order saying, don't send and turn them around.

00:19:39.360 And Trump said, well, you know, they're in international airspace.

00:19:41.880 We're not turning them around now.

00:19:43.400 And they also said, you only issued that order orally by the time you'd written, issued

00:19:47.960 it, you know, in written form, it was too late, whatever.

00:19:51.440 Even after the Supreme court's ruling, that guy kept the contempt hearing scheduled for

00:19:56.580 yesterday morning for like over half a day, he was actually still going to go forward

00:20:01.660 with it.

00:20:03.480 Finally, he postponed it.

00:20:05.580 And now he wants briefing on whether he can still do it.

00:20:08.040 He will let go of this case with his cold, dead hands.

00:20:11.600 But Judge Bosberg, I have some advice for you.

00:20:14.600 If you want to be commander in chief, you should throw your hat in the ring.

00:20:17.580 Stephen A. Smith was on the program a couple of weeks ago saying he's probably not going

00:20:20.920 to be running for president.

00:20:22.080 Now he's already talking about maybe he will.

00:20:24.100 He's going to stop talking like that.

00:20:25.180 He said, thinks maybe he has to do it.

00:20:27.980 You should throw your hat in the ring.

00:20:29.420 Judge Bosberg, got a whole family of activists, got the wife who runs the abortion clinic.

00:20:33.700 You got the daughter who spends her life trying to help illegals who are gang members stay 0.99

00:20:39.200 in our country reportedly.

00:20:41.540 And now you got you.

00:20:42.960 You're very politically active.

00:20:44.480 I love it.

00:20:44.920 You should do it.

00:20:45.460 Just not as a judge in a robe.

00:20:47.220 OK, so you've been reversed by the U.S.

00:20:50.480 Supreme Court in a pretty quick smackdown, all things considered.

00:20:53.980 And I really hope it's a lesson to all district court judges, because the thrust of Sotomayor's

00:21:00.560 and the three liberals' main dissent was, what are we taking this for so quickly?

00:21:05.320 We don't need to decide this now, because they love the delay of the nationwide injunctions.

00:21:10.840 They're like enjoying everything.

00:21:12.760 And maybe if we put it on the normal appellate and Supreme Court's certainly schedule, we'll

00:21:17.680 get to it in like three years after the Democrats have won the House in the midterms.

00:21:22.660 But thankfully, the majority of the court took it and the majority of the court reversed

00:21:27.400 Bosberg and he's been slapped down.

00:21:29.640 And so have a couple of other district court judges this week.

00:21:31.900 Trump's on a little winning streak right now with the Supreme Court, three this week and

00:21:35.460 one before.

00:21:36.340 So he's gotten four good ones.

00:21:38.480 And I hope these district court judges are paying attention because they really don't

00:21:42.300 like to get reversed.

00:21:44.760 OK, that's where we kick it off today with our pals from the Real Clear Politics podcast,

00:21:49.620 Tom Bevan, who's co-founder and president of Real Clear Politics, and Carl Cannon, Washington

00:21:54.240 Bureau chief, who are here and they've been covering all this on their show, too.

00:21:59.000 Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona,

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00:23:01.060 Guys, great to see you.

00:23:02.340 Good to be with you, Megan.

00:23:03.640 Well, you did Albany Law School proud, I'll tell you that.

00:23:07.140 Thank you.

00:23:08.100 Thank you, Carl.

00:23:09.080 I mean, I wanted to ask you, like, do you get it?

00:23:11.560 Like, I know it's very complex, but did you follow?

00:23:14.480 Yeah, Tom went to Princeton.

00:23:15.880 He got it.

00:23:16.460 I went to the University of Colorado.

00:23:17.560 I got about half of it.

00:23:18.820 Actually, Megan, I covered the courts for many years, and you did a good job, Sunrise.

00:23:26.460 You did.

00:23:27.240 It is complex, Tom.

00:23:28.800 I mean, and it's hard, you know, but we've been covering it, like, really in-depth on

00:23:32.340 the show, so I knew the audience could handle it.

00:23:34.060 But these nuances are important as the lawfare plays out and as the media manipulations bubble

00:23:41.160 up, you know, like, we won, no, we won, no, you know, understanding nuance is important.

00:23:47.720 Totally.

00:23:48.260 And, you know, I'm shocked that you were shocked that it didn't get reported that way in the

00:23:53.420 media.

00:23:53.920 I mean, we've both been in this game long enough to know that the media is not always going

00:23:59.640 to report everything in a sort of fair and objective way, and this is another example

00:24:05.940 of that.

00:24:06.260 But I think you're right.

00:24:06.860 And look, this is, I think it was important for the Supreme Court to step in here, not

00:24:12.300 just in this case, but the other ones you mentioned, to put some of these lower court

00:24:17.740 judges sort of back in their lane, back in their place.

00:24:20.200 I mean, this has gotten out of control.

00:24:21.520 We've talked about this on our show.

00:24:22.520 The number of nationwide injunctions that have been issued just in the first two months of

00:24:27.220 the Trump administration, and two-thirds of all of them that have been issued were,

00:24:31.260 you know, issued in the last nine years since Donald Trump took office.

00:24:35.300 So this was a real problem.

00:24:37.220 It had been getting out of control, and I think John Roberts recognized that.

00:24:41.760 And so I think the Supreme Court was right to step in here and just, you know, basically,

00:24:45.820 again, not, as you point out, with some caveats, and there's still some things to be worked

00:24:51.940 out in the court, but at least to get the system sort of back in balance, because it had gotten

00:24:56.040 way out of hand with the way these judges had been just sort of trumping, no pun intended,

00:25:01.460 all of Trump's policies at a national level. 0.97

00:25:04.500 It's just ridiculous.

00:25:06.060 And Trump has accurately perceived a green light on the deportations of these Venezuelan 1.00

00:25:14.380 gang members who are not, I mean, some of the left-wing press would have you believe,

00:25:17.620 like, your last name is Garcia, and they're putting you on a plane.

00:25:20.800 It's not what's happening.

00:25:22.800 You know, the DHS group, ICE in particular, and Tom Homan are being very careful in deciding

00:25:29.060 who goes, that will they be 100% perfect?

00:25:31.500 I don't know.

00:25:32.820 I don't know.

00:25:34.240 I know the one guy who got deported, who wasn't supposed to be deported, was totally fine to

00:25:40.080 deport, just not to El Salvador.

00:25:42.620 That's what all the expenditure of energy is on that one guy this week who they found.

00:25:48.620 So he had a non-removal order to El Salvador, because that was the country that he sneaked 1.00

00:25:54.880 in from.

00:25:56.020 And he had a deportation order issued against him, Carl.

00:25:59.600 They said, you're being deported, sir.

00:26:01.700 Get out.

00:26:03.040 And like within two weeks of having to leave, only then did he try to claim asylum.

00:26:09.460 Actually, it was too late for him to claim it.

00:26:11.220 So he just claimed, please, you can't remove me.

00:26:14.000 Please don't send me back home to El Salvador, because there's this gang that's trying to

00:26:17.000 kill me and my family.

00:26:18.200 And the immigration court had mercy on him and said, all right, we'll give you a non-removal 0.90

00:26:22.720 order to El Salvador, and he's been here ever since.

00:26:25.140 This is just a few years ago.

00:26:26.760 But by the way, you could still remove him to El Salvador if the conditions there that

00:26:30.940 required him to have a non-removal order had changed favorably in a way that would be

00:26:35.200 safer for him.

00:26:36.080 And they have.

00:26:37.200 The gang that was totally devoted to getting this guy and his family allegedly has been

00:26:41.920 eradicated by Maduro or whoever it was in El Salvador.

00:26:46.140 And so he like this, even this guy, like their poster boy was definitely deportable.

00:26:52.720 ICE is not making massive mistakes at it.

00:26:54.980 Like they want you to believe that these are Keystone Cops and they're not.

00:26:58.560 Well, his name was Garcia.

00:27:00.240 It is Garcia, actually.

00:27:04.020 And that's not the reason.

00:27:05.980 No, but your analogy.

00:27:08.440 So look, he lived in this case.

00:27:12.180 Let's talk about the politics of it for a second.

00:27:14.680 And we'll get back to the legal of it.

00:27:17.520 He's a dad of three, lives in Silver Spring, in Prince George's County in a house.

00:27:24.380 You can look it up, you know, with Zillow, you can find out where he lives.

00:27:26.860 His wife works.

00:27:27.740 He's got three children.

00:27:29.340 The youngest is five years old and is a nonverbal autistic child.

00:27:35.200 He's apparently working.

00:27:37.000 It doesn't sound like he was really in any gang.

00:27:40.200 And he was.

00:27:41.180 And I'm not sure.

00:27:42.560 I'm also I'm skeptical, as you are.

00:27:44.680 That his life was threatened.

00:27:45.920 I'm also skeptical.

00:27:46.880 He was an MS-13, which the government keeps saying without any evidence whatsoever.

00:27:51.020 Well, wait, are you aware of the fact that a lower a lower court judge, an immigration

00:27:55.520 judge and an appellate judge both found evidence to support his gang affiliation?

00:28:02.120 This was in 2019.

00:28:04.160 What they they well, there was there was a one person alleged he denied it.

00:28:08.440 It wasn't kind of it wasn't a hearing.

00:28:10.620 As you point out, these immigration courts don't have they're not set up, you know, guilt

00:28:14.940 or innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.

00:28:16.980 But but but but but America, look, I'm talking about the politics of it, though.

00:28:22.080 Here's a guy taking care of this kid.

00:28:24.240 He's picked up.

00:28:25.060 He's got he's got this Biden administration did nothing for four years now.

00:28:28.160 Maybe he should have paid closer attention to the election, to the campaign as it was

00:28:32.840 unfolding.

00:28:33.460 But he's there running an error.

00:28:34.940 And suddenly he's in El Salvador in prison.

00:28:38.200 And yes, they can deport him to El Salvador.

00:28:40.940 But he's never even been charged with a crime and whatever the government wants to say.

00:28:46.480 And, you know, the Justice Department lawyers have been a little bit they're not quite known

00:28:50.920 what to say.

00:28:51.760 And one of them was removed for not being a passionate advocate.

00:28:55.440 They first said it was an administrative error.

00:28:57.460 Then they said they couldn't do anything about it.

00:28:59.820 His his lawyer says, well, they couldn't do anything about it, but they didn't try to do

00:29:03.320 anything about it.

00:29:03.980 And the idea that he's in a that that because of the United States law enforcement, he's

00:29:09.120 in a prison, a person in prison who's never even been charged with a crime.

00:29:13.240 I think it makes Americans very uncomfortable.

00:29:15.300 It makes me uncomfortable.

00:29:17.040 And could he have been deported?

00:29:18.500 Yeah, but he wasn't just deported.

00:29:19.800 He was sent to prison straight from the streets of Maryland to a maximum security prison in El 0.99

00:29:24.940 Salvador.

00:29:25.480 It seems Kafkaesque.

00:29:28.080 Well, I don't I don't know if you're right.

00:29:32.680 I'll give you the latest stats, which you, of course, already know, because you are at

00:29:36.900 Real Clear Politics, which does all the polling and posts all the polling.

00:29:41.420 But there is a Wall Street Journal poll just out.

00:29:45.180 Fifteen hundred registered voters.

00:29:46.760 And the question is, it does all sorts of approve or disapprove questions on illegal immigration.

00:29:52.480 And we'll get into some of them.

00:29:54.200 But here's here's this one in favor or oppose deporting illegal immigrants who are suspected

00:30:01.460 foreign gang members to El Salvador without a court hearing to determine whether they belong

00:30:08.180 to a gang.

00:30:09.800 Total favor.

00:30:11.380 Fifty five percent oppose.

00:30:13.820 Forty three.

00:30:15.340 OK, forty three.

00:30:17.080 So and then if you just boil it down to deporting illegal foreign gang members to El Salvador,

00:30:21.960 sixty two percent favor.

00:30:23.660 Thirty two percent oppose.

00:30:24.760 But even like they got specific here, if illegal immigrants who are suspected foreign gang members

00:30:31.100 to El Salvador without a court hearing that you got fifty five percent of the American

00:30:37.520 populace is in favor of that, Carl.

00:30:39.300 I don't know if this is a political problem to bring Tom in.

00:30:41.940 Is it is it is this particular issue a problem politically for President Trump?

00:30:46.160 Well, the numbers suggest that it's it's not.

00:30:51.780 And of all the issues that that people are polling on right now, the economy, inflation,

00:30:57.720 foreign policy, he's got the highest marks on on immigration.

00:31:00.820 And in part because of the work that he's done, I think, securing the border and deporting

00:31:06.540 folks.

00:31:06.840 So we'll see.

00:31:08.720 Does it become a problem if more cases like this arise?

00:31:11.640 Maybe.

00:31:12.620 But right now, I think I know it does look, Carl, we talked about this on our show, the

00:31:18.920 you know, the students that Tufts University and some of these other folks.

00:31:23.060 And again, part of this, too, Megan, is I don't think we're as the public, we're not

00:31:27.880 getting enough good information about exactly, you know, who these people are, what they

00:31:32.340 may have done, what they're accused of.

00:31:33.940 And I think the administration could actually do a better job of being a little bit more

00:31:37.460 transparent because, you know, if we just rely on the mainstream media to inform us, I think

00:31:44.340 we will end up being thinking to ourselves, my gosh, the administration's totally overstepped

00:31:48.440 their bounds and they're just taking people off the street. 0.96

00:31:50.260 You would think it's a bunch of gay hairdressers. 1.00

00:31:52.420 That's what that's what the media wants you to believe. 0.97

00:31:53.980 It's just a bunch of innocent gay hairdressers that they threw on planes. 1.00

00:31:58.460 Now they're in this. 0.97

00:31:59.260 I don't have to worry about that.

00:32:00.360 So, well, here's the other thing.

00:32:04.720 If you look down the list of polling in this Wall Street Journal poll, my God, it's very

00:32:08.660 favorable for Trump on immigration.

00:32:10.700 There's only one area in which Carl is right.

00:32:13.940 The American public is against the deportations.

00:32:16.700 And I'll get to it.

00:32:17.960 But just quickly, approve or disapprove of the job he's doing handling immigration.

00:32:22.140 52 percent approve.

00:32:23.020 47 percent don't approve or disapprove of the job he's doing handling border security.

00:32:27.820 53 percent approve.

00:32:28.960 43 percent don't.

00:32:30.360 Um, favor.

00:32:33.420 Do you favor detaining and deporting millions of undocumented migrants?

00:32:37.800 53 percent favor.

00:32:39.120 45 percent don't.

00:32:40.520 Do you favor detaining and deporting undocumented immigrants, even if they have lived in the U.S.

00:32:46.340 for 10 or more years, pay taxes on earnings and have no criminal record?

00:32:51.980 Favor.

00:32:53.240 33 percent oppose 63.

00:32:56.080 That's where the American public draws the line.

00:32:59.180 Because they're with him.

00:33:00.000 I read you the 55 and 62.

00:33:01.780 They're like, any gang affiliation, get out.

00:33:04.160 We have no we don't care. 0.99

00:33:05.360 Couldn't give a shit if you wind up in that El Salvadorian prison. 0.99

00:33:08.620 I mean, the American public is like really clear, like, get out. 0.99

00:33:11.320 But the one thing they don't want to see, Carl, is immigrant, illegal immigrants who have lived here for 10 years or more who pay taxes on their earnings and have no criminal record. 1.00

00:33:23.260 Oh, that's Kilmar Garcia.

00:33:25.760 He's right on the cusp.

00:33:26.800 I think he came here like 10 years ago.

00:33:30.060 Something like 2016.

00:33:31.740 So he's he's he's close.

00:33:33.480 If they let him alone for another six months, he'd have been he'd have been safe in the poll.

00:33:37.320 Well, I haven't seen an individual poll on him, but I bet you they want him gone, too, because when they find out that two not one, but two judges, two courts have said we find the gang evidence credible and you're getting deported.

00:33:51.040 Get out.

00:33:51.780 They found that in the context of saying you got to leave, sir. 0.99

00:33:55.200 We don't really give a shit what your problems are. 0.97

00:33:57.040 We'll give you the do you the solid of saying you don't have to go back to El Salvador. 0.99

00:34:00.480 But, you know, like they say at 4 a.m. in the bar, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

00:34:05.280 Go ahead, Tom.

00:34:05.860 But well, I was just going to say and look, a lot of this is we are have arrived at this place where Trump has the support to do this.

00:34:15.600 The majority support across the board, even in cases where, you know, we're not holding hearings or whatever because of what Biden did.

00:34:22.040 I mean, this is a this is a clear reaction to four years of Joe Biden just throwing open the borders and, you know, denying it to the American people saying, oh, the border's safe.

00:34:29.940 It's not a problem.

00:34:30.620 It's not a crisis.

00:34:31.600 And then also once the folks are here, you know, denying that actual crimes were, you know, Lake and Riley and what was going on in Aurora, Colorado with the with the gangs and the like.

00:34:41.300 And so the American people just completely fed up with it and they wanted action taken.

00:34:46.560 And that's what's Trump Trump.

00:34:48.040 That's what he ran on.

00:34:48.940 That's what he's doing.

00:34:49.580 And that's why he's still got majority support.

00:34:53.000 OK, before we leave the topic of illegal immigration, can we talk about Kristi Noem and these ridiculous photo ops? 1.00

00:34:59.940 I why is why?

00:35:02.100 Why does she have to keep doing this? 1.00

00:35:03.920 Just there?

00:35:04.700 She's doing a great job.

00:35:06.140 Like her actual performance as DHS secretary, in my view, anyway, has been amazing.

00:35:12.380 Just stop trying to glamorize the mission and put yourself in the middle of it as you cosplay ICE agent, which you're not.

00:35:24.280 I can't stand these photo ops, you guys.

00:35:28.000 I think they diminish ICE.

00:35:30.320 They diminish DHS, CPB.

00:35:34.040 She, she's not an agent. 0.61

00:35:36.080 She is an administrative policy person appointed by Trump because she was very loyal to him.

00:35:43.140 Fine.

00:35:44.000 But stop with the glam. 0.99

00:35:45.980 I mean, she looks like I look right now, but she's out in the field with her gun being like, we're going to go kick some ass. 1.00

00:35:54.880 No one wants you there. 0.99

00:35:56.160 First of all, nobody ever wants the extra lady who doesn't actually belong. 1.00

00:35:59.560 They just don't.

00:36:00.640 I just pro tip as somebody who whose brother is a cop.

00:36:05.440 They don't want you there, even if, you know, you're an attractive lady who just wants to. 0.91

00:36:09.440 They don't want you.

00:36:10.520 There are lives on the line.

00:36:12.140 Get like they may say that you can come because you're DHS secretary.

00:36:15.240 But these guys are going to be much safer if you have nothing to do with it.

00:36:18.900 And sure, sure enough, she went on one of these raids and somebody tried to kick her.

00:36:22.480 It's like she she's looking for an opportunity to to have that happen.

00:36:25.800 And I have had it up to here with all of this.

00:36:28.900 Carl, am I wrong?

00:36:30.840 No, you're not wrong.

00:36:31.800 But Kristi Noem has a recent history of being very bad at public relations. 1.00

00:36:36.060 I happen to know something.

00:36:37.540 I have an inside knowledge about this.

00:36:39.560 You know, she that thing that she put in her book about shooting dogs or her dog. 0.99

00:36:44.720 Yeah.

00:36:45.660 Well, she put that in her first book, which came out a few years ago.

00:36:50.240 But the editors there took it out.

00:36:52.180 They said, what is wrong with you?

00:36:53.760 We're not putting that in your book about shooting dogs.

00:36:57.180 But what happened was that editor left and she went back to the same publishing house.

00:37:02.020 It was now run by kind of younger people and they didn't stand up to her.

00:37:05.660 And she saw the opportunity.

00:37:07.360 She said, ah, I'm going to put that back in.

00:37:09.220 Boy, that belongs in my book.

00:37:10.600 So let's just say public relations is not her natural forte.

00:37:15.800 Well, why why doesn't somebody save her from herself? 0.97

00:37:18.380 I mean, someone in the administration has got to pull her aside and say, enough. 0.90

00:37:23.440 All right.

00:37:23.760 Just stop.

00:37:24.420 Stop wearing the ice jacket.

00:37:26.500 Stop going on TV.

00:37:28.140 And by the way, Tom, a bunch of gun enthusiasts.

00:37:30.980 And, you know, you you put this out to people on the right in particular.

00:37:33.900 They will look at everything you do with a gun are ripping her.

00:37:37.480 Because if you look at the gun, it's pointed right at the head of that guy right next to her.

00:37:44.280 I don't I think this is an ice worker right at his head.

00:37:46.620 Now, her finger's not on the trigger.

00:37:48.820 But a bunch of, you know, gun enthusiasts are like, you don't point a gun at your compatriot's head for a photo op.

00:37:57.300 Right.

00:37:57.640 It's not pointed as a dog.

00:37:59.520 Well, she actually she actually knows how to handle a gun, as we know from not just cricket, but, you know, she's from South Dakota. 1.00

00:38:05.440 But a pheasant hunting and the like, I mean, just cricket.

00:38:08.160 Yeah.

00:38:09.460 She shot a goat, too. 0.99

00:38:11.340 But, you know, look, I totally agree with you.

00:38:14.180 And I'll forgive her the first, you know, I guess when she went out on this on this, you know, raid or whatever.

00:38:23.300 I think a lot of Trump officials wanted to show that they were sort of taking action and show themselves in action.

00:38:28.960 They're actually responding.

00:38:29.900 They're not just sitting behind a desk.

00:38:30.960 Pete Hegseth went and worked out with the troops and things of that nature.

00:38:34.140 And so I think that was serving a purpose. 0.93

00:38:36.460 But, you know, standing at the prison again in front of all those guys, I mean, that was ridiculous. 0.98

00:38:41.680 This one's ridiculous. 0.86

00:38:43.260 And ironically, she's, you know, Trump hires or hired a lot of his people. 0.94

00:38:48.180 He likes people who have media experience, who can go on TV and handle, you know, questions from from the mainstream media folks and the like.

00:38:56.220 And so I think maybe she thinks that this is this is what Trump wants to see her and for her to be out front and making headlines and being in the newspapers.

00:39:06.080 But to your point, I think it's I think it's a bit over the top and not doing her or the administration any favors with these the way that they're just sort of sort of comically staged.

00:39:16.680 Here is a post from Jonathan T.

00:39:18.960 Gilliam.

00:39:19.400 He's been on the show.

00:39:20.180 Christian Navy SEAL.

00:39:21.400 Well, not this one, I think, but earlier ones multiple times, Christian Navy SEAL, FBI agent, Air Marshal, among the his other accomplishments.

00:39:30.220 These social media posts devalue everything you are doing right.

00:39:34.280 Secretary Noem, are you the secretary of Homeland Security or are you a social media influencer?

00:39:38.360 Because if you are the boss, you wouldn't be slinging a weapon and kicking in doors.

00:39:43.700 So unless you you are issued that weapon, you should not be holding it for posts and pics.

00:39:49.520 Screwing around with guns for social media would get anyone that works under you fired.

00:39:54.380 I can't understand why you and others in the administration continue to parade yourselves in such an unprofessional, juvenile, self-serving way.

00:40:01.600 You aren't running for office.

00:40:03.040 You're running a federal agency.

00:40:04.660 Do that or resign.

00:40:06.580 Here she was, because that photo op we just showed included video, and here's how she described the big mission she was about to go on.

00:40:16.220 Here we are with Marco and Brian today.

00:40:18.440 They're letting me roll with them.

00:40:19.600 We're going to go out and pick up somebody who I think has got charges of human trafficking.

00:40:26.080 Earlier had an op that swept up somebody who was wanted for murder.

00:40:30.260 So we appreciate the good work that they do every day, and we appreciate them working to make America safe.

00:40:36.580 So, Carl, she doesn't even know who they're arresting, someone who I think is wanted for human trafficking. 0.97

00:40:43.940 That's just a bad—that's just a dumb mistake.

00:40:46.760 This undermines—look at how we spent the first 40 minutes of the show, what we were talking about, right?

00:40:51.220 Like, are we getting the right people?

00:40:53.960 Who's on board those flights to El Salvador?

00:40:56.680 She's the secretary of DHS.

00:40:58.520 It is not helpful to Team Trump in these courts every day to have the DHS secretary being like,

00:41:05.500 I think—I think he did human trafficking.

00:41:08.500 And next thing you know, that guy's in El Salvador in prison.

00:41:10.520 Well, that's what—I hate to keep harping on poor Abrego Garcia, but that's—the White House press secretary accused him of engaging in human trafficking.

00:41:21.040 He was never—that just came out of nowhere. 0.92

00:41:23.680 This seems to be a go-to phrase for them because they think people will hear it and go, well, gosh, yeah, shoot him. 0.97

00:41:29.980 Don't even send him—don't even send him to El Salvador. 1.00

00:41:32.760 You know, human trafficking, murderers.

00:41:34.420 But I—to your point, in all seriousness, she should use very precise language.

00:41:40.000 They should be careful about the law, and she—she shouldn't even be standing over the gun.

00:41:44.460 She should—she should be doing—she's been doing what you said.

00:41:48.100 Megan, I—I guess I'd nominate you for the job right now.

00:41:51.000 Could you take her job?

00:41:52.480 Well, you know what?

00:41:53.000 I would do it the way a prosecutor does it.

00:41:56.280 It's fine for a prosecutor to go to the scene as the cops are collecting evidence and doing the jobs that they are experts at.

00:42:03.340 But I—you don't see prosecutors trying to act like they're the forensic expert on the scene and dissecting the body or making sure that nobody gets near the scene.

00:42:16.060 They're there because they're the ones who are going to have to argue it in court, and they just want to make sure they can say they were there, that there's nothing really abnormal happening.

00:42:24.900 That's fine.

00:42:26.200 But that's—she's doing much more than that.

00:42:27.960 She's actually going on these raids with them.

00:42:30.000 She's cosplaying ICE agent. 0.99

00:42:31.880 And she, of course, is doing it with, like, 25 pounds of hair, only to be outdone by her 30 pounds of makeup and false eyelashes. 1.00

00:42:42.060 There's no false eyelashes on an ICE raid.

00:42:44.740 I just—I can't.

00:42:45.900 You guys, I'm sorry.

00:42:46.600 I'm over it.

00:42:47.220 Okay.

00:42:47.540 Let's keep going.

00:42:48.580 Wait, wait, Megan.

00:42:49.300 Tariffs?

00:42:49.740 Yeah, go ahead.

00:42:50.100 Wait, wait.

00:42:50.560 If you take that job, would you—and you have to give up this podcast, would you—you'll come on our podcast.

00:42:56.360 Yes, I will.

00:42:58.080 I will come on your podcast.

00:42:59.240 Okay.

00:42:59.740 All right.

00:42:59.880 I mean, look, that's the irony here is I don't really love Christy.

00:43:03.940 No, my audience knows that. 0.98

00:43:05.300 She lost me with the—well, a few things, but really shooting the puppy in the face was ridiculous. 0.93

00:43:10.960 And then the alleged affair with Corey Lewandowski, that's very bad, while she's parading herself as this family woman. 0.63

00:43:16.120 And she came on the show, and she really had me.

00:43:17.860 She had me as this, like, family woman, and I read her book, and then, like, just so many things.

00:43:23.940 But anyway, I am past that.

00:43:26.220 I am totally rooting for her as DHS secretary. 1.00

00:43:29.620 But I wish she would stop this nonsense.

00:43:31.840 It's not about—it's not a job in which she should showcase her vanity, right?

00:43:36.680 It's a job in which she should just keep us safe. 0.99

00:43:38.680 And she's doing a good job of that, but she's undermining it by this PR stuff. 1.00

00:43:42.620 Okay.

00:43:43.560 The tariffs.

00:43:46.240 Okay, it's everywhere.

00:43:47.240 You can't avoid tariff talk.

00:43:49.400 It's so hard.

00:43:51.020 It's like, for those of us who just want to, like, give it a chance, well, you can't.

00:43:54.400 You can't.

00:43:54.920 You must talk about tariffs day and night, night and day.

00:43:58.800 Okay, so we're going to do that.

00:44:01.020 Trump went to the National Republican Congressional Committee dinner last night.

00:44:05.000 And I would say he made some comments that are not particularly helpful to those who have been critical of this whole thing.

00:44:12.740 Listen to Sot 4B.

00:44:13.760 And I do think that the war with the world, which is not a war at all, because they're all coming here. 1.00

00:44:20.500 Japan is coming here as we speak. 0.99

00:44:22.740 They're in a plane flying, lots of them, all tough negotiators.

00:44:26.080 But things that people wouldn't have given us two years ago, wouldn't have even thought of it two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, seven.

00:44:33.240 They're giving us everything.

00:44:34.600 They don't want tariffs on themselves.

00:44:38.400 And it's very simple.

00:44:40.200 We're making deals.

00:44:41.340 And people are paying tariffs.

00:44:44.080 Countries are paying tariffs.

00:44:45.820 Right now, China's paying a 104 percent tariff.

00:44:50.420 Think of it, 104 percent.

00:44:52.180 Now, it sounds ridiculous, but they charged us for many items, 100 percent, 125 percent.

00:45:00.820 Many countries have.

00:45:01.780 They've ripped us off left and right.

00:45:04.060 But now it's our turn to do the ripping.

00:45:08.120 That's OK.

00:45:09.080 We're going to make our country even stronger, stronger than it ever was.

00:45:13.560 I'm not going to lie.

00:45:17.480 I'm amused.

00:45:18.140 I actually am very amused by him.

00:45:19.720 But, you know, the terms like war on the world and then he undid it.

00:45:24.300 And then it's our turn to do the rip in like we're ripping we're ripping people off.

00:45:27.400 That plays into the messaging that's coming from even his right wing detractors and people, even Maria Bartiromo, who actually is one person I really trust on this.

00:45:37.260 She it's hard to find somebody really trust on that because she's definitely not afflicted by TDS, but she totally understands the markets and has got a lot of, you know, presumably billionaire friends who are melting down over it.

00:45:49.860 So I found her reporting to be very steady on it.

00:45:55.000 Politically, though, I haven't seen a recent poll, but I do wonder how this is going to affect him.

00:46:00.140 You guys have thoughts on that, Tom?

00:46:01.180 Yeah, I mean, it's it's definitely the way that this has gone, the hysteria that's gone surrounded this over the last week or so with the market, you know, the way it's gone down can't be positive for Trump.

00:46:16.420 I mean, it just I'm sure his supporters are going to be, you know, when you look at the internals of these polls, most Republicans are going to stick with him on this and give him at least the benefit of the doubt and see how this plays out over the coming weeks and months.

00:46:30.580 But in Democrats, you know, they hate him.

00:46:33.280 They'll always hate him.

00:46:34.100 They hate him for this, even though some of them actually supported tariffs not too long ago.

00:46:38.280 But we'll leave that aside for now.

00:46:40.460 But I think independents are probably being, you know, this creates a lot of anxiety and nervousness.

00:46:46.040 And and, you know, so I think it's probably a drag on his numbers overall.

00:46:51.180 If you look at his readings on the economy and inflation, they are underwater.

00:46:56.540 And again, that was the top issue in the election.

00:46:58.440 They've always been good, which is a contrast, right?

00:47:01.040 Because they've always been good.

00:47:02.680 Yeah.

00:47:02.900 And so he's he needs to, you know, I think this is another thing about the administration.

00:47:07.940 When you talk about Doge, you talk about this.

00:47:09.820 I think the administration, you know, they could have benefited from prepping the public for what, you know, and saying, look, here's the problem.

00:47:16.340 Right.

00:47:16.840 Lay it out and say, OK, here's what we're going to do about it.

00:47:19.180 You know, on this date, we're going to impose these tariffs and then we're going to negotiate.

00:47:22.240 We're going to do this and that could have done the same with Doge.

00:47:24.860 Instead, they're just breaking stuff.

00:47:26.760 And there's a there's a benefit to that.

00:47:28.380 But there's also the downside to that, which is that, you know, you get reactions from the media, you get reactions from Democrats.

00:47:34.820 Things are portrayed.

00:47:37.000 If mistakes are made, those become bigger.

00:47:40.320 And so in that sense, they just went ahead with the tariffs.

00:47:43.080 I don't think the public was really prepared for what happened afterwards.

00:47:46.080 And now they're trying to play catch up on the public relations aspect of this.

00:47:50.780 I mean, there's there's pushback, Carl.

00:47:54.820 We saw Elon Musk does not seem to be a fan of the tariffs, but there are a lot of defenders now.

00:48:01.340 We have we'll talk about this in a minute, but we have Kevin O'Leary out there defending it.

00:48:04.580 Of course, Scott Besson, Howard Lutnick and so on.

00:48:08.160 Well, he had the president hasn't made it very clear on what a country would have to do to avoid tariffs.

00:48:15.120 And I think this is picking up on what Tom was saying.

00:48:18.660 You know, he he said he seems to think that if there's a trade imbalance with the United States, that's de facto evidence that they've been cheating.

00:48:26.120 And it might be that or it might be that they just make a product we want or we don't export to that particular country.

00:48:33.520 He I think he should give an Oval Office address to explain his rationale, walk through what he hopes to gain by this, what countries can do to avoid tariffs and what his philosophy is on, you know, free trade versus fair trade.

00:48:46.680 I would listen to that speech.

00:48:48.120 I would be very curious because he's made all these statements and he hasn't put it together in a coherent policy.

00:48:54.240 He could do it himself.

00:48:54.920 He's been proselytizing on this issue for 40 years.

00:48:58.560 He actually would need no speechwriter and no prep.

00:49:01.140 I think you're right.

00:49:02.000 He could be well served by it.

00:49:03.060 Stand by, guys.

00:49:03.680 We'll be right back.

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00:50:15.940 Wanted to get that Kevin O'Leary soundbite in because it was interesting from CNN.

00:50:20.380 Watch.

00:50:21.000 104% tariffs in China are not enough.

00:50:23.900 I'm advocating 400%.

00:50:25.780 I do business in China.

00:50:28.180 They don't play by the rules.

00:50:29.400 They've been in the WTO for decades.

00:50:31.360 They have never abided by any of the rules they agreed to when they came in for decades.

00:50:35.780 They cheat.

00:50:36.500 They steal.

00:50:37.060 They steal IP.

00:50:37.760 I can't litigate in their courts.

00:50:39.960 They take product, technology.

00:50:41.980 They steal it.

00:50:43.320 They manufacture it and sell it back here.

00:50:45.380 Tariffs?

00:50:45.680 What would that look like?

00:50:46.660 I want Xi on an airplane to Washington to level the playing field.

00:50:51.600 This is not about tariffs anymore.

00:50:54.220 Nobody has taken on China yet.

00:50:56.180 Not the Europeans. 1.00

00:50:57.360 No administration for decades.

00:50:59.480 As someone who actually does business there, I've had enough.

00:51:02.940 I speak for millions of Americans who have IP that have been stolen by the Chinese. 1.00

00:51:08.500 I have nothing against the Chinese people.

00:51:12.000 The government cheats and steals.

00:51:15.460 And finally, an administration.

00:51:17.480 You may not like Trump.

00:51:18.660 You may not like his style or his rhetoric.

00:51:20.500 Finally, an administration that puts up and says, enough.

00:51:26.440 America is the number one economy on earth with all the cards.

00:51:29.620 We will not have that forever. 0.76

00:51:31.180 It's time to squeeze Chinese heads into the wall now. 1.00

00:51:35.020 So, on the front of the politics of the tariffs, this is the way to go.

00:51:43.220 Like, there's not a lot of Americans who are going to be crying in their soup over the loss of our relationship with China.

00:51:51.120 I think most Americans at this point would like far less of a relationship with China.

00:51:55.180 We would like China to stop owning our agricultural fields, our movie industry, our sports industries, produce every single toy that our children play with. 0.99

00:52:06.780 And we have no idea with what standards.

00:52:08.800 So, now they want to play hardball with Donald Trump and they think somehow that's going to work to their benefit.

00:52:13.980 I don't think so, Carl.

00:52:16.140 Well, what Kevin O'Leary said, this theft of intellectual property has been a problem for 20 years.

00:52:22.160 It's under-reported, under-discussed.

00:52:25.840 Everybody, people I know in business, I used to cover the Silicon Valley when I first came to Washington.

00:52:30.940 San Jose Mercury was my home paper.

00:52:33.880 And this is, what he said is literally true.

00:52:36.380 Companies go there, American companies, the innovation is stolen and then sold back to us.

00:52:44.440 And we're supposed to think that that's okay because China has a billion people and it was poorer than us. 0.87

00:52:52.160 And they're trying to catch up.

00:52:53.360 Well, I think they've caught up and they should be made to pay by the rules.

00:52:57.260 This is what I was saying before.

00:52:58.960 This is the kind of thing Donald Trump ought to talk about.

00:53:01.540 He had to leave Canada out of the discussion.

00:53:04.960 And if Vietnam wants our help, you've got to figure a way to work with them. 1.00

00:53:08.840 And I think a focus on cheating, on dishonest business practice, I think that's a winning argument.

00:53:18.120 And I think it's a truthful and effective argument.

00:53:21.080 Yeah.

00:53:21.720 No, it's much harder to sell the, to Carl's example earlier, Tom, like, I don't know, somebody's importing like dragon fruit here, like some sort of weird papayas that we don't grow domestically.

00:53:35.000 And so there's a trade imbalance because we just don't export that much to them and we need their, you know, tropical fruits.

00:53:41.160 That's a little tougher to sell than, look at these guys.

00:53:44.160 Everybody knows the Chinese have been taking advantage of us for a long time. 1.00

00:53:47.560 And now they decided to play hardball.

00:53:49.560 They actually came out because Trump raised the tariffs on China.

00:53:54.140 And then they decided to raise a reciprocal 34% on us.

00:53:58.600 And Trump said, all right, I'll do you one better.

00:54:00.940 I'm adding another 50% on top.

00:54:02.780 And so now he's raised the levy on them to 104%.

00:54:07.220 And China comes out and says, we firmly oppose it.

00:54:13.320 It's a mistake upon a mistake.

00:54:14.760 And their ministry vowed to escalate their retaliation on the United States import or exports.

00:54:22.120 So I just don't see this going well for them.

00:54:25.500 I, and meanwhile, I don't know if you saw, but Scott Besson is out there today saying our entire focus is on Main Street.

00:54:32.220 We don't really care that all these Wall Street, you know, belly acres, you know, you had your day in the sun and I'm one of you.

00:54:38.420 And I'm telling you, you had your day in the sun.

00:54:40.800 Our mission focus on Team Trump for the next three plus years is going to be Main Street, Main Street, Main Street.

00:54:49.240 Yeah, I saw that clip of him.

00:54:50.740 And that's, that's obviously a good message for the administration.

00:54:53.080 But he also said in another clip, I think it was this morning, it might have been on Maria's show.

00:54:58.440 When he was talking about tariffs with the Chinese, he was like, listen, you know, we import five times more, right, than China imports of our goods.

00:55:07.760 So they're the surplus country, so they can raise their tariffs all they want. 0.99

00:55:10.880 Who gives a shit, right? 0.97

00:55:11.780 We're going to, we are the country that had, we have the leverage and the Trump administration is willing to use it. 0.99

00:55:17.960 I mean, this is like a high stakes poker game where they're just shoving chips in, I'll raise you, no, I'll raise you back.

00:55:22.700 But we have more chips than they do.

00:55:24.760 They cannot stay with us if we continue to do this.

00:55:27.400 Now, is it going to cause pain?

00:55:29.320 And perhaps, I mean, the other concern that people are talking about is, is this going to, you know, if we're, you know, if we're getting after Vietnam and some of these other countries, is that going to drive them into the arms of the Chinese and away from us? 0.95

00:55:42.220 Those, I think, are legitimate questions.

00:55:43.960 But at the end of the day, I mean, I think Kevin O'Leary is right.

00:55:47.120 We have been, and this is what Trump has been saying for a long time.

00:55:49.980 We've been taken advantage of by the Chinese in particular for so long, we've just come to accept that that's the sort of normal course of things. 1.00

00:55:58.980 And so finally, we're saying, even as they have cheated and stolen, not just IP, but the way they dump products, they manipulate their currency, I mean, they do a whole host of things which are really underhanded and not what you want in a, you know, a legitimate trading partner.

00:56:16.180 So we're trying to reset this, and I think if we can do it, if the Trump administration can do it, it'll be a huge win for the country in the medium and long term.

00:56:25.600 I don't think the Chinese understand the American sentiment toward China right now, right?

00:56:30.080 After the balloon gate over the United States, about which we did absolutely nothing, and Americans are still wondering about that.

00:56:37.840 Frankly, I'm still wondering about all the drones over New Jersey.

00:56:40.320 I don't believe any of the explanations we've gotten so far.

00:56:42.320 I don't think they're particularly popular as a country in America, and I think it actually is going to really work well for President Trump to take them on.

00:56:53.580 As far as if we zoom out, we read the polls on immigration.

00:56:57.460 He's doing very well.

00:56:58.640 The polls on tariffs, I haven't seen them lately, but you're telling me less well, which dovetails with what I would have expected, because the American populace is told over and over and over, they're bad.

00:57:08.200 He's ruining the economy.

00:57:09.060 It's a one-man wrecking ball on what was a healthy economy.

00:57:12.160 That's what you hear everywhere.

00:57:13.620 But overall, Trump maintains his popularity, which to me means he won't be changing any of these policies anytime soon.

00:57:21.660 Here's CNN's Harry Enten on that.

00:57:25.480 I think there was this concern among some folks that Donald Trump would come in for a second term and kind of be a lame duck. 0.91

00:57:31.700 He ain't no lame duck.

00:57:32.980 If anything, he's a soaring eagle.

00:57:34.540 What am I talking about here?

00:57:35.920 Let's talk about Trump executive orders in 2025.

00:57:38.340 He's already signed 111 so far.

00:57:41.760 That is the most at this point in a presidency in at least 100 years.

00:57:47.220 In fact, it's the most in any single year, and we're only in April, since Harry S. Truman in the early 1950s.

00:57:53.440 86% of the American public believes that Trump's approach to presidential power is completely different from past presidents compared to only 14% who believe it is in line with precedent.

00:58:05.260 And we're talking about at least 79% of Democrats, independents, and Republicans.

00:58:10.140 So Trump's presidential power is too much, the right amount, too little.

00:58:14.940 Well, 47% say too much, but then you get 36% who say the right amount.

00:58:19.560 Then you get 17% who say too little.

00:58:21.840 So you're essentially dealing with a majority of the American public, 53%, who do not say that Trump has too much power.

00:58:28.280 They either say he has too little power or the right amount of power.

00:58:32.380 So the idea, that argument that Donald Trump is, quote, unquote, a king, that I don't think holds with the American people.

00:58:38.780 That's really remarkable, Tom Bevin, if you think about the number of outlets continuing to use words like fascist, authoritarian, right, dictator, some of which we heard in these non-organic hands-off rallies over the weekend, right?

00:58:56.780 They're doing all they can through lawfare, through media, through protests to get the message out there that he's acting like a dictator.

00:59:04.320 It's not sticking.

00:59:05.300 The majority of the populace still thinks he's using presidential power appropriately, and of a hefty amount of them, nearly 20% thinks he hasn't gone far enough.

00:59:14.980 Right, and there is this disconnect between folks in the media and certainly the Democrats when they say, well, you know, I don't think that this is what Trump voters voted for.

00:59:24.200 You know, they're having buyer's remorse than that he talked to a Trump voter.

00:59:26.540 They're like, this is exactly what I voted for, and I would vote for it again, you know, twice if I could.

00:59:31.500 I mean, they love what he's doing, and that number about – he has taken a completely different approach.

00:59:37.280 It is a different political environment than he was in, obviously, in 2016.

00:59:41.040 He's got better people around him.

00:59:43.440 The machinery around him is more efficient.

00:59:46.120 He knows what he's doing.

00:59:47.260 They've been executing at a rapid pace. 0.96

00:59:49.860 And because I – look, at some point he is going to be a lame duck, right?

00:59:53.620 I mean, that's just a fact, unless he ends up, you know, amending the Constitution and getting a third term.

00:59:59.880 But then that moment is rapidly approaching, especially if Democrats manage to take control of the House next November.

01:00:07.580 So he is trying to get a lot done, and as much and as fast as he can do.

01:00:12.580 And as Harry pointed out and as the polls show, by and large, the public is with him.

01:00:17.940 And he has a lot more leeway this time around than he did in his first term.

01:00:23.720 This – Chadwick Moore, who – he's been on the program.

01:00:26.240 He wrote a biography on Tucker.

01:00:27.600 He tweeted this out just today, yesterday, saying, this is what I voted for, this and tariffs.

01:00:34.300 And the tweet was from Trump's Truth Social that reads as follows.

01:00:38.920 Sloppy J.B. Pritzker, the rotund governor from the once great state of Illinois, who makes Chris Christie look like a male model, and whose family wanted him out of the business because he was so pathetic at helping them run it, has presided over the destruction and disintegration of Illinois at every level, never before seen in any state.

01:00:58.360 Crime is rampant. 0.84

01:00:59.320 People are sadly fleeing Illinois.

01:01:00.960 Unless a change is made at the governor's level, Illinois can never be great again.

01:01:03.980 Tom, that's your state.

01:01:04.900 I bet you agree with almost every word, if not every word.

01:01:08.920 Well, yeah, Trump obviously has a way with words.

01:01:12.380 But, I mean, he is right about the fact that Illinois is suffering.

01:01:18.940 It's suffering.

01:01:19.580 Chicago, largest city, obviously, is in not great shape.

01:01:23.060 And J.B. Pritzker has been in office for two terms now and thinks of himself as presidential material.

01:01:30.120 And he has portrayed himself as this guy – Illinois is going to be the refuge for abortions and all the folks, the LGBTQ folks. 0.77

01:01:37.300 Like, we're leaning into the woke stuff.

01:01:39.760 Meanwhile, you know, people are fleeing.

01:01:42.300 Taxes are high.

01:01:44.180 And it just hasn't been a great situation for the state of Illinois.

01:01:49.240 But nevertheless, I mean, to me, Pritzker is one of those guys that is sort of a classic example of a guy who was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.

01:01:58.060 He really hasn't distinguished himself, if you look at the statistics in the state.

01:02:03.340 And yet, he is constantly mentioned as one of the top-tier candidates for the Democrats in 2028.

01:02:09.460 So we'll see how that plays out.

01:02:11.000 His family is dying to trans everyone's child, that post I'm told from this past June.

01:02:16.460 And that's how he's distinguished himself as far as I'm concerned.

01:02:18.840 I got to run because I have Lee Zeldin, EPA administrator.

01:02:21.660 I can't wait to ask him some questions.

01:02:23.180 Love listening to you guys.

01:02:24.380 Check out the Real Clear Politics podcast.

01:02:26.520 I really enjoy it.

01:02:28.220 And our regards to Andrew, who was not able to come today.

01:02:31.240 See you soon.

01:02:31.980 Thanks, Megan.

01:02:32.980 Okay.

01:02:33.760 Up next, as I said, Lee Zeldin of the EPA is here.

01:02:36.640 We've got a lot to go over.

01:02:38.480 Stand by.

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01:04:56.640 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

01:05:01.860 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and

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01:05:55.660 We've been telling you about Trump's efforts to dismantle the USAID agency that's funneling

01:06:06.300 your taxpayer money all over the world to left-wing causes.

01:06:09.680 And the Department of Education, of course, is another target of Team Trump on the, to

01:06:14.160 put it mildly, slimming down program.

01:06:16.400 But today we are going to take you inside what the administration is doing to fix one

01:06:19.660 of the left's favorite agencies, the Environmental Protection Agency, or EPA.

01:06:25.660 We started learning about the rampant overspending and possible corruption in the waning days

01:06:30.380 of the Biden administration.

01:06:32.200 That is when Project Veritas caught an EPA staffer on tape saying the agency was spending

01:06:38.860 as much money as possible before Trump took office, likening it to throwing gold bars off

01:06:45.180 the Titanic.

01:06:46.440 Watch.

01:06:47.180 Now we're just trying to get the money out as fast as possible before they come in and 0.99

01:06:49.980 like fuck it up. 0.95

01:06:51.000 It truly feels like we're on the Titanic or throwing like gold bars off the... 0.98

01:06:55.500 That's tough, man.

01:06:57.080 Who are the gold bars going to?

01:06:59.020 Trump profits, states, tribes.

01:07:01.820 We gave them the money because it was harder.

01:07:03.800 If it was a government-run program, they could take the money away.

01:07:06.700 No.

01:07:07.320 If Trump won, because it was an experience policy against Trump winning.

01:07:12.960 Until the Trump people come in and tell us we can no longer give our money.

01:07:16.560 Unbelievable.

01:07:17.540 That EPA staffer is no longer with the agency.

01:07:20.800 And joining me now for the first time, the 17th administrator of the EPA, Lee Zeldin.

01:07:26.580 Lee, welcome to the show.

01:07:27.380 Great to have you.

01:07:28.320 Great to be with you, Megan.

01:07:29.180 So I think most of us in the Northeast are still in your debt, very much so for giving

01:07:34.780 Kathy Hochul a run for her money and coming within a few points of actually beating a Democrat 0.97

01:07:40.600 to become the governor of New York.

01:07:42.120 We're just crying in our soup that you didn't actually get it across the finish line in the

01:07:45.800 end.

01:07:46.000 But what Yeoman's work, you're really the reason that New York started thinking maybe

01:07:50.800 we could win here if they're Republicans.

01:07:52.680 And many people credit you with the five seats they picked up in that midterm.

01:07:58.220 Yeah, and that was actually four years ago yesterday that we started that campaign.

01:08:03.380 We started 19 months to the day before the election.

01:08:06.120 We worked hard.

01:08:06.760 It's a big state.

01:08:07.900 But we made the rounds and found that there were a whole lot of independents and Democrats

01:08:13.040 who are prioritizing issues that transcended partisan loyalty.

01:08:17.500 And they wanted to save the state.

01:08:19.760 And we were happy to do it.

01:08:21.060 And things happened for a reason.

01:08:23.820 It's funny how things work out.

01:08:25.940 And while the silver lining of that campaign was how we were able to keep the House for

01:08:32.220 the two years, the final two years of President Biden's time in office, here we are now.

01:08:37.020 And obviously, I wouldn't have this opportunity to help fight for a strong, great president and

01:08:45.440 a golden age of America serving in his cabinet.

01:08:47.820 If I was up in Albany, I'd be watching from there.

01:08:50.700 I know, but Albany meets you so badly.

01:08:52.880 Like, as a lifelong New York State gal, it's just so sad what's happened there.

01:08:57.020 It's becoming California in so many ways, even though it's got very deep pockets of red, 0.93

01:09:01.860 like in upstate where I grew up.

01:09:05.260 Before we move on to EPA, let me just ask you two political questions, if you don't mind.

01:09:09.160 You it was believed that that Andrew Cuomo would probably be your stiffest competition

01:09:15.620 for that gubernatorial race.

01:09:17.020 But his career ended in tatters after the Me Too allegations and after, you know, he basically

01:09:22.340 killed a bunch of people in the New York nursing homes after ordering COVID positive patients

01:09:27.540 to go in there and not be screened.

01:09:30.200 Lee Zeldin, he's coming back.

01:09:31.900 He now has decided to run for mayor of New York.

01:09:35.260 And as you know, the person who wins mayor of New York is the person who wins the Democrat

01:09:39.160 primary with all due respect to Curtis Lee, who's running on the GOP side.

01:09:43.820 You know, that New York is just so Democrat, so blue.

01:09:46.280 And he's way up.

01:09:47.540 He's got 30 percent of the vote by the latest polls.

01:09:49.920 Mayor Adams down like four or eight percent.

01:09:52.420 His next closest somebody has 10 percent.

01:09:55.040 I can't believe New Yorkers are about to do this, but it appears they're about to restore

01:09:58.540 this guy to power.

01:09:59.360 What do you think of it?

01:09:59.980 It shows how quickly people can forget.

01:10:03.400 I mean, he's out there talking about issues as if he wasn't the governor when so many of

01:10:09.440 these laws were getting passed to protect criminals across the state.

01:10:14.040 And now he's out there advocating for public safety as if he wasn't the governor when they

01:10:18.540 were pushing for cashless bail and these other laws like raise the age and qualified immunity,

01:10:24.360 which was gaining legs under his watch.

01:10:26.660 And all these members of the parole board who've been releasing cop killers and you get this

01:10:31.940 clean slate.

01:10:32.860 You know, he ends up resigning.

01:10:34.380 And then a few years later, he's treated as if none of that ever happened.

01:10:38.080 And the irony is that it's not just that he isn't owning his past record.

01:10:43.580 He's taking the opposite position.

01:10:45.340 And I think it's just important for voters to get informed on their options and to not

01:10:50.940 forget because we've been here once and don't come back to us a year after Andrew Cuomo gets

01:10:56.780 elected mayor of New York City and and act as if his own record didn't give you forewarning.

01:11:03.680 Yeah, I'm honestly like I'm I shudder to think what.

01:11:07.640 Well, and I kind of know what my friend Janice Dean is thinking about this. 0.76

01:11:11.660 You know, she she and her husband, Sean, can't stand this guy.

01:11:15.320 His both of Sean's parents were killed in New York City nursing homes because of him, because

01:11:19.420 of that order for which he's taken no accountability.

01:11:21.860 He's lied over it.

01:11:23.160 I know you're you know, Janice, a bit, too.

01:11:25.480 That's who I think of.

01:11:26.340 I think of the actual families who suffered as a result of his inane decisions about which

01:11:31.600 he was warned.

01:11:32.480 It's not like people had no idea that they knew they knew it would happen.

01:11:36.320 And he did it anyway.

01:11:39.180 Yeah.

01:11:39.780 And during the final days and weeks of Andrew Cuomo's time as governor, there was this increased

01:11:45.320 impeachment push amongst the ranks of the Democrats who were serving in the state legislature.

01:11:50.300 And they were talking about it as if the only cause of this were the sexual assault, abuse,

01:11:57.940 harassment allegations.

01:11:59.660 And meanwhile, that we can't forget that what actually was taking root at even a bigger level

01:12:06.060 at that time was an investigation that came out of the Federal Department of Justice.

01:12:11.380 You had thousands of families.

01:12:12.700 You mentioned Janice Dean and her family and what they went through.

01:12:17.300 And there were thousands of families who wanted answers and justice for their deceased loved

01:12:22.580 ones.

01:12:22.980 And I think that was part of the calculation of some of these members of the state legislature

01:12:28.180 who were coming out in favor of trying to get Andrew Cuomo out under the cover of some

01:12:33.980 of these complaints that were being brought forward by women who also didn't want to talk 0.99

01:12:40.500 about the deadly nursing home order and cover up.

01:12:42.940 Yes, I totally agree with you.

01:12:45.260 It's sad to me to see my city that I lived in for 17 years take this leap off of a bridge

01:12:53.780 with this guy. 1.00

01:12:54.440 It's just a stupid, reckless thing to do, in my view. 1.00

01:12:58.180 And speaking of my New York roots, this is something else you and I have in common. 0.98

01:13:02.160 It was mentioned by my guest in the first hour, but you too are a graduate of the Albany

01:13:07.480 Law School.

01:13:08.060 Right, and of course, as I was going through Albany Law School, there was a tremendous

01:13:14.240 amount of pride.

01:13:16.320 And in the years after I graduated for this famous alum, who I have the pleasure of being

01:13:21.820 able to speak to right now live on air.

01:13:24.900 But yeah, and actually, just before I was at Albany Law School, I was at the State University

01:13:28.760 of New York at Albany, which I believe that your family might have some roots there as well.

01:13:34.060 Yeah, my dad taught there.

01:13:34.840 Exactly.

01:13:35.620 Yes, oh, that's so great.

01:13:36.440 Well, I love Albany Law School.

01:13:38.420 I always say, like, I loved my four years at Syracuse, but nothing prepared me for life

01:13:42.780 better than those three years at Albany Law School.

01:13:44.920 It was just a very special place.

01:13:47.080 It was extremely valuable when it came to legal education.

01:13:49.880 They were really practical and hands-on and smart.

01:13:52.580 And they continue to produce some of the best lawyers in the country, even though it's a

01:13:56.220 small law school, but they mostly service New York State.

01:13:59.640 So these people wind up, in many cases, going to these big New York City law firms and ruling

01:14:03.920 the world, but I don't think I'd be where I am today had I not had those three years there.

01:14:09.680 I'm sure you feel the same.

01:14:11.780 Yeah, absolutely.

01:14:12.820 I had an opportunity to come back to Albany for four years when I was in the State Senate,

01:14:17.440 six years in the Army Reserve.

01:14:19.200 But some of the best memories of life were during those years of college and law school,

01:14:23.620 doing Army ROTC at that time.

01:14:26.920 And Albany isn't what we remember it.

01:14:30.680 This is the same for a lot of these small cities across all of upstate, as you well know.

01:14:37.500 Unfortunately, it seems like their heydays are in the past.

01:14:40.040 And a lot of that are the consequences of these decisions that won't tap into economic

01:14:45.140 opportunity, that won't reduce the cost of living.

01:14:48.420 So these jobs end up going, these big manufacturing companies that I'm sure you remember aren't

01:14:53.460 there anymore.

01:14:54.780 And President Trump talks about it a lot, because as you're a New Yorker remembering your roots,

01:14:59.940 President Trump has experienced the same thing.

01:15:02.360 And he scratches his head wondering, in the southern tier of New York, how can it be that

01:15:06.960 we don't extract natural gas where right across the border in Pennsylvania, Republicans and

01:15:12.860 Democrats together all got the memo, they're tapping into it, and they're prosperous for

01:15:17.640 it.

01:15:18.180 So unfortunately, I think Albany and some of these other cities aren't what we remembered

01:15:22.560 as not that long ago.

01:15:24.200 I know.

01:15:24.960 Well, I still go up there all the time because my mom lives there.

01:15:26.940 She lives in a suburb, and my brother's still up there, one of my brothers, my other brother's

01:15:31.560 in Atlanta, and was a police lieutenant there.

01:15:34.640 My mom was a nurse.

01:15:35.360 So they went through all of this and watched the city go up and down.

01:15:39.640 Let's talk about Trump and the big announcement yesterday, because natural gas is one thing.

01:15:43.420 And then there's coal, the forgotten coal miner.

01:15:45.720 And this is what I thought about when Trump came out and prioritized this, both during the

01:15:51.600 campaign and once he was president.

01:15:56.500 I thought about Hillary Clinton and when he first was running for president against her.

01:16:01.820 And she promised to devastate the coal industry. 1.00

01:16:05.280 She wanted to kill coal. 0.98

01:16:06.040 Do we have that?

01:16:06.740 I'm just wondering if we have that on tape.

01:16:08.860 Yeah, we do.

01:16:09.480 Here it is.

01:16:09.820 Watch this.

01:16:10.060 I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean,

01:16:17.780 renewable energy as the key into coal country, because we're going to put a lot of coal miners 1.00

01:16:23.860 and coal companies out of business.

01:16:26.220 Right, Tim?

01:16:27.160 And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people.

01:16:32.160 Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives

01:16:38.240 to turn on our lights and power our factories.

01:16:41.360 Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels.

01:16:45.840 But I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy

01:16:51.280 that we relied on.

01:16:52.420 OK, the coal industry did not vote for Hillary Clinton.

01:16:57.800 Barbara Streisand would later say to me directly at a party, I don't understand.

01:17:02.560 She literally said, how could the coal miners vote for Trump?

01:17:07.000 I said, Barbara, Barbara, she promised to put them all out of work. 0.95

01:17:11.940 What are you saying?

01:17:13.420 But they didn't understand.

01:17:14.760 They thought Republicans, you know, people like Barbara Streisand say Republicans.

01:17:18.340 Well, they hate coal miners. 0.93

01:17:19.400 They hate working class. 0.99

01:17:20.600 So how would they ever vote for him?

01:17:22.140 Hello.

01:17:23.240 And in comes Trump.

01:17:24.900 And yesterday, I'll just play one soundbite.

01:17:27.820 There's so many to choose from.

01:17:28.940 But take a listen to Sat 9.

01:17:30.140 Today, we're taking historic action to help American workers, miners, families and consumers.

01:17:38.780 We're ending Joe Biden's war on beautiful, clean coal once and for all.

01:17:43.080 And it wasn't just Biden.

01:17:44.560 It was Obama.

01:17:46.320 And there were others.

01:17:47.280 But we're doing the exact opposite.

01:17:50.660 And all those plants that have been closed are going to be opened if they're modern enough or they'll be ripped down and brand new ones will be built.

01:18:00.560 And we're going to put the miners back to work.

01:18:03.320 And I said I was going to do this.

01:18:05.160 And I've said it loud and clear.

01:18:07.780 And it's time to do it.

01:18:10.160 And we need it.

01:18:11.400 It's quite an image, Lee, of those guys in the hard hats who have been kicked around for far too long standing behind the president.

01:18:18.220 So what does this mean as a practical matter?

01:18:19.960 And you can feel it being in the room there with these workers.

01:18:24.700 They've been waiting a long time to have people out there like President Trump defending, sticking up for their livelihood, for their family, for their community.

01:18:36.060 And if you're sitting around a candidate and it's a campaign team, you're looking at the latest poll and you're trying to figure out the right message,

01:18:43.980 strangulating the economy is never a good idea for anyone around that table. 0.96

01:18:48.460 And if someone is naive, dumb enough to talk about it, you would expect the rest of them to try to stop them. 0.98

01:18:56.620 And in this case, President Trump gets elected. 0.99

01:18:59.160 He campaigned on this issue.

01:19:00.780 So a mandate was earned and he won big, not just the Electoral College, but also the popular vote.

01:19:06.960 And President Trump comes in.

01:19:08.340 He declares an emergency, an energy emergency, signs an executive order, creates a National Energy Dominance Council

01:19:15.640 with also Doug Burgum from Secretary from the Department of Interior, Chris Wright from the Department of Energy, myself and other agencies.

01:19:23.820 And we're working together to unleash energy dominance and permitting reform, making America the AI capital of the world, all of these priorities and working together.

01:19:33.320 Four weeks ago today, EPA announced what amounts to the largest deregulatory action in the history of the country.

01:19:40.740 One agency, largest deregulatory action ever, trillions of dollars of regulatory relief coming over the course of 2025.

01:19:49.400 For which industries?

01:19:51.040 Give me a couple examples.

01:19:52.060 All, yeah, so coal, coal is certainly one, it's a big one, but you also have it impacting mobile source energy, vehicles.

01:20:02.660 You have other forms of stationary source energy that Hillary Clinton was talking about in that segment to get rid of. 1.00

01:20:09.220 And what's so important to understand what Hillary Clinton was saying was the concept of getting rid of baseload power

01:20:16.580 and replacing it with what is intermittent sources of energy.

01:20:20.760 When Hillary Clinton says get rid of coal and natural gas and whatnot, she is, and talking about moving towards these other forms,

01:20:30.900 that you're talking about something like wind.

01:20:33.300 Now, wind is an intermittent source.

01:20:36.000 You can use it to substitute, I'm sorry, to supplement your baseload power, but it's not a substitute for it.

01:20:42.600 So these deregulatory actions that we announced are with regards to a number of Biden-era regulations from the last year or two of his time in office

01:20:53.820 that didn't just accidentally result in these companies needing to go out of business.

01:21:01.220 It was intentionally drafted to destroy these coal plants.

01:21:05.720 Yes, you heard it in the Hillary soundbite.

01:21:08.640 The Democrats, Obama, Hillary, and Biden, and I'm sure Kamala, too, have made it a mission to ruin coal.

01:21:16.960 They hate oil, too.

01:21:18.140 I mean, they don't like any sort of fossil fuel energy.

01:21:21.200 Obviously, Kamala Harris had said she wanted to ban fracking and then lied and said that she had reversed herself on that. 1.00

01:21:25.780 But in any event, they've been on a mission to make us reliant on windmills and solar panels.

01:21:31.620 This is their big, and depending on the car, batteries, no longer Teslas.

01:21:36.640 But this is, you know, this is the backbone of American energy and industry since our founding and since the industrial age.

01:21:44.720 So this is how the New York Times is pitching it, though.

01:21:47.780 This is in their write-up.

01:21:49.420 They talk about how coal is a pollutant, of course.

01:21:52.000 The most polluting of all fossil fuels when burned accounts for roughly 40% of the world's industrial carbon dioxide emissions,

01:21:57.200 the main driver of global warming.

01:21:58.380 Then they say over the past two decades, the use of coal has fallen precipitously in the U.S.

01:22:03.460 Like, gee, it just fell out of favor, Lee.

01:22:05.900 I don't know.

01:22:06.280 Like, people just naturally moved away from it.

01:22:07.940 They say as utilities have switched to cheaper and cheaper electricity sources like natural gas, wind, and solar power.

01:22:16.480 That transition has been the biggest reason for the drop in U.S. emissions since 2005.

01:22:21.360 Now, you tell me you know much more about this than I do, but my understanding is the reason that there has been a lot of switching to wind and solar

01:22:29.520 is because the government has been propping up those industries, notwithstanding the fact that almost nobody wants them.

01:22:36.220 Amen.

01:22:38.860 And during the Obama administration, he was putting out regulations out of the Biden EPA that were intentionally trying to get rid of coal.

01:22:48.280 President Trump gets elected.

01:22:49.460 He comes into office.

01:22:50.300 He reverses it.

01:22:51.060 Supreme Court weighs in in West Virginia versus EPA.

01:22:54.020 They say that what the President Obama, EPA, did was unconstitutional.

01:22:59.660 President Biden comes in, and then he goes back to what Obama was trying to do by design, getting rid of these sources of energy to force America to move towards wind power.

01:23:11.840 Now, what that does is it harms the economy, the people who can least afford it, Americans who are faced with the decision of whether or not to heat their home,

01:23:20.180 fill up their fridge with groceries, get prescription drugs that they need.

01:23:24.440 Instead of saying all of the above, they have to pick and choose.

01:23:27.380 If you want to get an electric vehicle, go get an electric vehicle.

01:23:30.680 But maybe for your neighbor, they don't want an electric vehicle.

01:23:33.720 They want a gas-powered vehicle.

01:23:35.120 One of the other consequences of this energy policy is that it's eliminating choice.

01:23:41.120 In a state like New York, they would ban gas hookups on new constructions statewide.

01:23:46.600 We were just talking about how they wouldn't allow the safe extraction of natural gas.

01:23:51.580 They won't approve all sorts of essential new pipelines to transport these sources of energy.

01:23:56.860 This is all by design.

01:23:59.060 President Trump comes in, and when he talks about a solution for energy, we're talking about national security, the environment, the economy, considering it all.

01:24:09.680 We need to protect the environment and grow the economy.

01:24:12.580 This isn't a binary choice anymore.

01:24:14.340 All of the above also means choosing both protecting the environment and protecting the economy, protecting opportunity with a golden age for all of America.

01:24:24.500 This is the path, I believe strongly, not the one that seeks to suffocate the economy, cutting out all these sources of energy with no substitute.

01:24:32.080 The last thing I would say is that some of these Democrats are now talking about how they agree with President Trump that we should make America the AI capital of the world.

01:24:39.820 Well, how the heck do you think that's possible if you keep getting rid of all of these baseload power?

01:24:45.840 Yeah, we need energy for that.

01:24:47.300 Okay, you mentioned wind.

01:24:48.580 We've got to spend a minute on it because this is the bane of my existence.

01:24:52.440 We spend our summers at the Jersey Shore, and there has been a massive dispute there.

01:24:58.100 You cannot go two feet without seeing a sign about the windmills that are coming, the wind turbines on the wind farm that are coming to South Jersey.

01:25:06.600 Unfortunately, I don't think this particular group of wind turbines is going to be stopped by President Trump's executive order, which he issued right upon taking office, saying anything that's not yet been permitted and that's still in process of being permitted is halted on wind turbines.

01:25:23.280 We're stopping.

01:25:24.220 He's the offshore ones in particular are stopping because for, among other reasons, they're apparently killing a bunch of whales and they're toxic.

01:25:32.040 Last summer in Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard, one fell.

01:25:35.240 The blades of these things are the size of a 747.

01:25:39.000 Like, it's longer.

01:25:40.040 The wingspan is longer than the wingspan of a 747.

01:25:43.560 Anyway, they fell into the ocean.

01:25:45.840 There was toxins everywhere.

01:25:47.380 People couldn't go swimming.

01:25:48.620 That's just one, one windmill, one turbine.

01:25:52.800 So how are we going to stop more of these things from polluting our land because they take up so much land, polluting our waters, killing our animal, our sea life like our whales, because it's full steam ahead for the ones that weren't swept up in the EO.

01:26:08.520 Right. And at these different agencies, we're implementing President Trump's guidance to us that he doesn't want any more permits for any of these windmills.

01:26:19.120 Now, there have been a lot of windmills over the course of not just months and years, but even decades that have gone up around America.

01:26:27.180 And I think that there's somewhat of a difference in the way that some Democratic governors talk about this versus others.

01:26:35.660 We've spent a lot of time talking about how this is not a substitute for baseload power.

01:26:42.080 Some Democratic governors agree with that, and they say that out loud.

01:26:46.180 Well, they need to get the memo to the rest of the people out there who are articulating this as if it's a substitute because it's not.

01:26:52.760 As far as some of those windmills that are already up or they're much further along with approvals already secured, that's not something that I received any guidance from President Trump that's different from what he's already put out.

01:27:08.140 We stand by ready to implement his agenda.

01:27:11.060 That's our job is to implement the Trump mandate, and that's why there haven't been any new approvals since he put that EO out.

01:27:17.200 Good. Let's stop it. I don't care if they got the permit right in this case.

01:27:21.400 They got it right before Trump took office, but it's not yet built, and it shouldn't be.

01:27:25.200 It's such a pollutant. It's a disgusting eyesore. 0.99

01:27:28.140 It's one thing you've put these off where nobody can see them.

01:27:30.440 But I mean, the East Coast is it's absolutely gorgeous.

01:27:34.820 It's the Gold Coast of America. It's spectacular.

01:27:37.300 Why would we litter it with these ugly, disgusting windmills that if they fall, because there will be accidents, ruin the swimming, endanger the sea life?

01:27:45.720 You heard Trump talking about how they kill the whales on Joe Rogan.

01:27:48.480 He's right. They mocked him. He was totally right about it.

01:27:51.320 It's torture for these poor whales who are underwater as they can hear the click, click, click, click, click, click, click of hundreds or thousands of these things.

01:27:59.800 It's just one of Trump's many right headed priorities.

01:28:02.300 Priorities. Let's talk about the Doge efforts at EPA, because it seems like EPA is a big area for Doge and that Elon and team have found over $20 billion in waste, fraud and abuse so far at EPA, Lee.

01:28:17.320 I've canceled now $22 billion worth of grants.

01:28:20.600 And to give you an idea of how that compares to the agency's budget, our operating budget is about $10 billion a year.

01:28:27.340 Yet somehow, through Congressional Democrats and their Inflation Reduction Act and some of their other appropriations through Congress, over $60 billion was obligated and spent through EPA in 2024.

01:28:41.780 And that number is going to go down by over 65 percent in 2025.

01:28:47.420 So $22 billion worth of grants.

01:28:50.040 Now, you'll hear terms from Democrats like environmental justice or climate change, and they'll define it in a way that there might be Republicans and independents that would agree with.

01:29:02.440 You say environmental justice, a great argument to be made in support of it is that there are communities that have been left behind and they need funding and support, attention in order to deal with it.

01:29:13.040 It's long overdue.

01:29:14.400 OK, a lot of us can agree with a definition like that.

01:29:17.420 Here's the problem.

01:29:18.060 In the name of environmental justice, they will get a dollar appropriated, and instead of spending that dollar to actually remediate that environmental concern, they will spend the money to some left-wing activist group to tell us that we need to spend a dollar remediating an environmental issue.

01:29:36.620 So we have been canceling all of these grants.

01:29:39.340 I'll give you one example.

01:29:40.500 $50 million went to the Climate Justice Alliance.

01:29:44.040 They say that climate justice runs through a free Palestine. 0.84

01:29:48.060 I come in office, I cancel that grant.

01:29:50.440 Yes, Climate Justice Alliance said that through $50 million, we're not even talking about spending $100,000, which that would be too much.

01:29:59.480 They say that climate justice runs through a free Palestine. 0.84

01:30:01.700 I say that if you're going to spend $50 million in the name of environmental justice, the $50 million should be spent remediating environmental issues in communities, again, not sending it to left-wing organizations.

01:30:14.580 I'll tell you one of the other issues that we've seen in the bigger picture is with $20 billion through the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund created in the Inflation Reduction Act, Democrats parked $20 billion at an outside bank to give to eight pass-through NGOs.

01:30:31.540 Many of them were brand-new, the $2 billion NGO that is connected to Stacey Abrams, President Trump talks about a lot.

01:30:39.720 They only received $100 in 2023.

01:30:42.440 They got $2 billion in 2024.

01:30:44.600 Self-dealing, conflicts of interest, unqualified recipients, and less EPA oversight than what we need for the taxpayer with all sorts of different facts and evidence to back it up.

01:30:55.740 And yet congressional Democrats in the media, others in the media, want to make believe, like, there are no problems with any of that.

01:31:03.240 We canceled that $20 billion.

01:31:05.600 Okay, let me ask you about this, because Stacey Abrams responded to this on MSNBC on March 6th.

01:31:10.020 And this soundbite's going to begin with her discussing a program to replace energy-inefficient devices in Georgia, a program that was run by Rewiring America.

01:31:21.000 One of the groups, including hers, was another one, who got this huge grant, this $2 billion EPA grant.

01:31:28.920 Watch.

01:31:30.280 Okay, so what is this organization?

01:31:32.800 What is your relationship to it, and what does it do?

01:31:34.980 In 2023 and 2024, I led a program called Vitalizing DeSoto.

01:31:43.060 We worked in a tiny town in South Georgia to demonstrate that by replacing energy-inefficient appliances with efficient appliances, you can lower your cost.

01:31:54.080 And, in fact, we accomplished that.

01:31:55.700 For 75 percent of the community, they got appliances that are lowering their bills right now.

01:32:01.600 We had one woman who saw her electric bill cut in half from $180 to $98. 0.88

01:32:07.420 That's what we delivered.

01:32:08.980 And based on that program, a coalition of organizations, famous organizations, came together and said to the EPA, if we can do this here, we can do this for millions more Americans.

01:32:23.780 Let us invest the money of America in lowering the cost for Americans.

01:32:28.200 And the EPA said, okay, great, go for it.

01:32:31.600 So her explanation, in part, is that it wasn't just her little group, but it was groups like the United Way and Habitat for Humanity, and that's why this $2 billion grant made sense.

01:32:44.760 Her organization received $500 million of the $2 billion.

01:32:50.200 What qualifies this NGO to receive $2 billion?

01:32:54.660 It didn't exist before this Inflation Reduction Act.

01:33:00.680 They only received $100, and then they get $2 billion?

01:33:06.160 Now, when the grant agreement was drafted by EPA, they put a provision on page 7 that says that they had 90 days to complete training called how to develop a budget.

01:33:17.360 This isn't some standard requirement that went to every contract all of the time.

01:33:23.360 This was a decision by the EPA that this organization needed to complete a training called how to develop a budget.

01:33:30.040 If they need to still complete that training to learn how to develop a budget, how do you give them $2 billion?

01:33:37.800 On top of it, it gets even worse.

01:33:39.960 On page 1 of the grant agreement, it says that they have 21 days to start spending the $2 billion.

01:33:46.780 So, let me get this right.

01:33:48.840 You have 21 days to start spending $2 billion, but then you're given an additional 69 days to complete your how to develop a budget training.

01:34:00.960 It's wild.

01:34:02.120 So, EPA knew that this was something that we should have a problem with, that these folks had qualification challenges.

01:34:10.540 The EPA said they couldn't spend the money themselves, so they had to park it at this outside bank.

01:34:16.760 And the problem is, once the $2 billion goes through the NGO, EPA isn't even a party to the account control agreements after that.

01:34:25.880 EPA loses all sorts of oversight where I can't sit before you and answer all sorts of basic questions about what happens to the money.

01:34:35.100 Stacey Abrams just wants us to take her word for it. 1.00

01:34:37.460 But I don't know what in her qualification says that we should just be, you know, sending over $2 billion to her and her friends to let them spend as they wish with reduced oversight.

01:34:48.820 One other example was $5 billion went to another organization that was the former employer of the director of the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund for the Biden-EPA.

01:35:00.820 The self-dealing and conflicts of interest included Democratic donors, former Biden and Obama officials.

01:35:06.240 And as you pointed out here at the top of the segment, playing that clip of a Biden-EPA official, it was in their words that they were throwing gold bars off the Titanic.

01:35:15.940 Gold bars are tax dollars.

01:35:17.500 Off the Titanic meant they knew they were wasting it.

01:35:20.540 This is unbelievable.

01:35:22.860 So this is, are these just Democratic slush funds, rewards to Biden donors, that kind of thing?

01:35:29.480 Or is it more the green agenda?

01:35:31.800 Let's give out as much as we possibly can before we get kicked out so that people will continue pushing solar panels. 0.66

01:35:38.040 Yeah, it's kind of all of the above.

01:35:39.520 It's a green slush fund to their friends, getting out the door as part of their agenda before President Trump gets sworn into office.

01:35:46.680 And that's why I am so upset and concerned and frustrated and motivated to do something about the abuse of these terms, climate change and environmental justice.

01:35:59.140 Don't tell me that you're advocating for some community that needs to have clean air, land and water.

01:36:05.640 And in order to get there, you need to remediate environmental concern and then spend a dollar not on fixing that, but instead give it to your friends.

01:36:12.860 You know, there are people who are talking about climate change in a way that is trying to justify what is, you know, tens of billions of dollars or into the trillions of dollars, if you want to talk about the Green New Deal.

01:36:27.080 And they don't care about the fact that the people who can least afford it are the ones who get harmed the most.

01:36:31.960 They're not respecting choice and the ability of the American consumer to decide what kind of a vehicle to have, how they want to heat their home or to be even able to afford to be able to pay the bills for this stuff.

01:36:43.460 So this is about getting back to common sense.

01:36:47.020 And I don't want I don't think that the wool should be pulled over the eyes of Americans, Americans across the spectrum, conservatives, moderates, liberals, Republicans, Democrats, independents.

01:36:57.560 We all want a clean environment.

01:36:59.600 We all want clean air, land and water.

01:37:01.920 Stop trying to turn it into a wedge issue where you have to choose to either go with whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing or you're an outcast who wants to change the air back to the way it was a half a century ago.

01:37:15.600 Right.

01:37:16.800 OK, a couple other points before we have to go.

01:37:19.280 This just hit.

01:37:20.080 Very interesting news.

01:37:21.880 Donald Trump is suspending all tariffs except against China for 90 days.

01:37:25.760 Wow.

01:37:25.980 He just posted this on Truth Social.

01:37:29.260 Based on lack of respect that China has shown to the world markets, I'm hereby raising the tariff charge to China by the U.S. to 125 percent, 125, effective immediately.

01:37:39.100 At some point, hopefully in the near future, China will realize that the days of ripping off the U.S. and other countries is no longer sustainable or acceptable. 0.93

01:37:45.220 Conversely, and based on the fact that more than 75 countries have called representatives of the U.S., including the Departments of Commerce, Treasury and the USTR, to negotiate a solution to the subjects being discussed relative to trade, trade barriers, tariffs, currency manipulation and non-monetary tariffs,

01:38:00.720 and that these countries have not, at my strong suggestion, retaliated in any way, shape or form against us.

01:38:05.880 I have authorized a 90-day pause and a substantially lowered reciprocal tariff during this period of 10 percent, also effective immediately.

01:38:13.440 Thank you for your attention to this matter.

01:38:15.020 And the markets, of course, have just jumped up by thousands of points.

01:38:20.380 Not a shock, I guess.

01:38:22.560 Your thoughts on that, Lee?

01:38:23.480 That's breaking news.

01:38:24.320 The Dow's now up over 2,200 points.

01:38:26.860 Yeah, that's amazing news to hear about that reaction.

01:38:32.120 I think that it's an important message to the rest of the world.

01:38:36.740 And I think that we've already learned this lesson the first time President Trump was in office.

01:38:41.380 He wanted to renegotiate NAFTA.

01:38:44.820 And he was told that that was impossible.

01:38:47.820 You weren't going to be able to get it done.

01:38:48.980 And we ended up with the USMCA, which was better.

01:38:51.480 He was engaged in tough negotiations with China.

01:38:54.480 And he was told that that was impossible.

01:38:57.380 There's no way that you're going to be able to break this impasse that's been around for a long time.

01:39:02.020 And we were making tremendous progress.

01:39:04.040 And then, of course, COVID hit.

01:39:05.360 And that impacted the trade between our countries.

01:39:09.420 President Trump is not looking at this stuff one move at a time.

01:39:12.820 When it comes to trade, he's really thought through it.

01:39:14.620 And he's talked about it for decades.

01:39:16.240 So, for President Trump, I think it's something that he's earned more trust and faith as it relates to trade.

01:39:23.840 We're dealing with these deficits, these trade imbalances.

01:39:26.700 And I believe that our American economy is going to grow stronger for it.

01:39:30.460 The message to these other countries is to work with us, to do your part on your end.

01:39:35.400 And it will be the best for everyone.

01:39:37.040 A rising tide lifts all boats.

01:39:38.700 And that certainly applies to trade and the economy.

01:39:41.980 All right.

01:39:42.620 I have one more question for you on media bias, which I know you've been experiencing since taking this job a couple of weeks ago as part of your deregulation effort at the EPA,

01:39:54.660 trying to roll back these incredible saddles and bridles that were put all over our energy industry.

01:40:00.660 Bill Weir, a guy who admits that he's reading little letters to his infant child, who's now a couple of years old,

01:40:08.920 and he renewed his terrible letter about how on your birthday you'll be breathing dirty air and drinking dirty water. 0.98

01:40:16.100 I mean, this guy, he's a nutcase. 0.97

01:40:18.180 He's an environmental nutcase. 0.88

01:40:21.720 And they've, of course, at CNN, thought he was an appropriate choice to cover the EPA and you.

01:40:26.120 So I'm sure you're going to get really fair and balanced coverage.

01:40:28.440 And here's an example of that, where he decided to fact check one of your deregulatory announcements on March 12th.

01:40:38.740 They were putting out press releases with such a flurry, about 31 different actions and rollbacks,

01:40:43.740 that some of them had typos or placeholders at the top.

01:40:47.640 We have one of those there.

01:40:48.760 Trump EPA announces zero, zero, zero.

01:40:51.380 You can see there.

01:40:52.480 It's sort of shoot first, fill out the press release later.

01:40:56.280 You did something most administrators wouldn't do.

01:41:02.380 You went on X and said, this is completely fake news.

01:41:06.660 You corrected him and explained exactly what that was, that those weren't zeros,

01:41:11.700 that this was an actual environmental regulation that you were trying to get at.

01:41:16.000 And eventually he issued a half-hearted, okay, he got me there.

01:41:20.280 But what do you make of, Bill, we're in CNN and the media coverage you've gotten so far?

01:41:27.300 It was actually entirely about shooting first, coming from his report.

01:41:32.660 And he should have done his homework.

01:41:34.480 And quite frankly, if he's the expert, he should know, because this is a big regulation and it's called Quad OBC.

01:41:42.100 And he doesn't even know that we're talking O's. 0.56

01:41:44.720 He's talking about them as if they're zeros.

01:41:47.540 We're citing existing text.

01:41:51.080 And this is what we're going back and looking at.

01:41:54.140 So for him, you know, he decided that, you know, this was going to be an easy fact check

01:41:59.400 because he didn't know what he was talking about.

01:42:01.220 And there was a whole lot of arrogance here.

01:42:03.000 It's important for people to do their homework.

01:42:04.500 We have been attacked with this deregulatory announcement and in a way where people will post pictures, videos of, you know, land, water from the 60s or 70s.

01:42:19.620 And they'll claim that this is what we're going to go back to.

01:42:22.220 We're talking about regulation from, you know, the last year or two.

01:42:26.560 If the Biden EPA puts a new regulation in in 2023 and 2024, and we're talking about going back and revisiting it,

01:42:35.520 if you want to be accurate, post pictures and video from a year or two ago.

01:42:39.660 You can't go back to showing us water quality from the 70s and say that's what's going to happen if we change some regulation from 2024.

01:42:48.300 So before I let you go, what's been the biggest surprise to you?

01:42:51.980 You have been in New York state politics and then, of course, we're a New York state congressman.

01:42:57.640 I mean, a federal congressman from the east end of Long Island, I believe.

01:43:01.840 Right. And you go you do that for many, many years.

01:43:05.340 And then you get tapped for this job, which is a very, very important job.

01:43:08.940 And you get in there, you start kicking the tires of the agency.

01:43:11.380 You got those. You got a bunch of stuff you got to help President Trump do to roll back the regulations.

01:43:16.700 So between all of that, the spending and the regulatory, you know, approach and so on, what's been like the biggest surprise?

01:43:25.560 The biggest surprise is how much we can do at once.

01:43:28.840 You know, I was coming in here.

01:43:30.360 I knew that there was a lot of work that we were going to have to tackle.

01:43:32.980 We have a four year term to get it done.

01:43:35.420 And you wonder how much can you get done in the first 100 days in the first year?

01:43:41.360 And everything that we're talking about here, whether it's canceling twenty two billion dollars worth of grants, it's the deregulatory actions that were discussed.

01:43:50.500 There's a whole lot of different actions that we are undertaking to to better protect the environment that we're proud of.

01:43:56.620 The hazardous material removal response in Los Angeles after the wildfires is a perfect example of that.

01:44:03.160 The super fun cleanup that cleanups that were involved in across the country, the good work to protect human health and the environment and power the great American comeback.

01:44:12.260 We're not picking and choosing what to tackle first.

01:44:15.220 We want to fix everything and we want to do it right now.

01:44:18.720 It's been a surprise just how much we're able to do it once.

01:44:22.400 And I'm all for it. I'm here for it.

01:44:24.460 I'm happy to be an honor to be part of it, part of this cabinet, which I think President Trump did a great job filling with talent.

01:44:30.420 And here at EPA, we have all the talent we need to make America proud.

01:44:35.120 Ah, please come back and update us on your efforts.

01:44:37.840 It's great to see you and all the best to you.

01:44:40.600 Thanks, Megan.

01:44:41.940 Wow. Don't you feel better knowing he's in there?

01:44:44.280 Gosh, I do.

01:44:46.320 I just like we have been so strangled by especially environmental regulations.

01:44:53.320 I mean, you wouldn't do it any differently if you really wanted to put a harness on the American economy.

01:45:00.540 And thank God now with Trump and Zeldin in there, I think we'll really start to see some changes.

01:45:05.780 And now, you know, look, Trump's trying this thing with the tariffs.

01:45:08.900 We'll talk more about that one tomorrow.

01:45:10.720 But he's doing so much in many areas to try to get the economy going, to try to rev up the engine

01:45:17.280 that that's powered America for decades now.

01:45:21.160 And this is just one great example.

01:45:22.440 All the things that Lee Zeldin was talking about.

01:45:24.760 OK, so that's it.

01:45:25.880 Would love to know your thoughts on that interview and on Andrew Cuomo.

01:45:30.200 Why are they?

01:45:30.840 Why are you doing this to us, New York?

01:45:33.500 Why?

01:45:34.440 OK, we'll be back tomorrow with Stu Bergeer.

01:45:37.560 Thanks for listening.

01:45:38.600 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:45:43.200 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

01:45:45.680 Oh, no.

01:45:46.460 Bye.

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01:45:50.960 Bye.

01:45:51.300 Bye.

01:45:54.380 Bye.

01:45:55.760 Bye.

01:45:56.900 Bye.

01:45:57.400 Bye.

01:45:57.520 Bye.

01:45:58.400 Bye.

01:45:58.740 Bye.

01:46:03.020 Bye.

01:46:03.600 Bye.

01:46:03.920 Bye.

01:46:04.400 Bye.

01:46:06.400 Bye.

01:46:07.280 Bye.

01:46:07.360 Bye.

01:46:07.500 Bye.

01:46:07.600 Bye.

01:46:08.460 Bye.

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01:46:12.020 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 09, 2025

Truth About SCOTUS and Trump, EPA Fraud Uncovered, and Tariff Drama, with Lee Zeldin, Tom Bevan, and Carl Cannon ｜ Ep. 1045

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