The Megyn Kelly Show - Truth About the Biden Cover-Up, and Revelations in ＂Original Sin,＂ with Jake Tapper, Alex Thompson, and Batya Ungar-Sargon

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00:01:01.260 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.300 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.580 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:16.120 Today, a deep dive into the decline of President Biden's cognitive health

00:01:21.220 while in office, including never before heard stories from those very close to the president

00:01:27.100 and a true reckoning about the media's role in the Democrat Party's attempted cover-up.

00:01:33.020 In minutes, I will be joined by CNN's Jake Tapper and Axios' Alex Thompson regarding their new book.

00:01:39.140 It's called Original Sin, President Biden's cover-up and his disastrous choice to run again.

00:01:47.760 This will be their first long-form interview.

00:01:50.520 The book does include some shocking new details, including from some of Mr. Biden's own cabinet secretaries,

00:01:56.700 who said that by 2024, the president could no longer be relied upon for being able to perform at 2 a.m.

00:02:04.880 if there were some sort of emergency.

00:02:07.460 He was not able to answer that call.

00:02:10.140 Another revelation from the book, a source close to Mr. Biden said, quote,

00:02:14.860 five people were running the country, and Joe Biden was at best a senior member of the board.

00:02:21.740 Who were those five people running the country?

00:02:25.020 And who exactly perpetrated this attempted cover-up?

00:02:29.800 We will ask for and receive names in just a moment.

00:02:33.720 But first, I'll look back at the president's decline that we reported on at the time that

00:02:40.420 was called nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

00:02:44.440 We hold these truths to be self-evident.

00:02:47.500 All men and women created by it go, you know the thing.

00:02:51.800 Signs of a slipping Joe Biden were everywhere, even in the run-up to the 2020 election.

00:02:57.200 For a politician long known for gaffes, this was something different.

00:03:00.780 Concerning brain freezes, like this one on CNN in April 2020.

00:03:06.300 You know, there's a, during World War II, you know, where Roosevelt came up with a thing

00:03:11.780 that, you know, was totally different than a, than the, it's called, he called it the, you know,

00:03:19.240 the World War II, he had the war, the war production board.

00:03:23.140 But raising questions about Mr. Biden's mental fitness back then was risky.

00:03:27.340 Just ask Laura Trump, who dared to go there in an interview with Jake Tapper weeks before

00:03:33.060 the 2020 election.

00:03:34.200 I think what we see on stage with Joe Biden, Jake, is very clearly a cognitive decline.

00:03:40.480 That's what I'm referring to.

00:03:41.740 It makes me uncomfortable to watch somebody on stage search for questions.

00:03:45.360 You are no, it's so amazing, it's so amazing to me that.

00:03:47.740 And try and figure out an answer.

00:03:49.660 A cognitive decline.

00:03:50.480 Well, when you're trying to tell me that what I was suggesting was a stuttering.

00:03:53.680 I think that you were mocking his stutter.

00:03:55.540 Yeah, I think you were mocking his stutter.

00:03:57.300 And I think you have absolutely no standing to diagnose somebody's cognitive decline.

00:04:01.160 Less than four and a half years later, it's Tapper doing the examining.

00:04:05.320 Starting in around 2019, 2020, there were two Bidens.

00:04:08.580 There was a Biden that was perfectly workable, serviceable, seemed fine.

00:04:12.460 And then there was a non-functioning one.

00:04:15.260 In his new book, Original Sin, co-authored with Axios' Alex Thompson,

00:04:19.780 the pair document the behind-the-scenes panic among Democratic officials over Joe Biden's decline.

00:04:26.140 Tapper claims he was on the case all along, but couldn't report fully until after the election,

00:04:32.400 when more people were finally willing to talk.

00:04:35.460 But it was a story most Americans had already seen with their own eyes.

00:04:39.980 The best way to get something done, if you hold near and dear to you that you like to be able to...

00:04:48.860 Anyway.

00:04:52.280 Forgetting the names of world leaders.

00:04:53.860 I want to thank that fellow down under.

00:04:56.960 Thank you very much, pal.

00:04:59.200 And then the moment that shocked even casual observers.

00:05:02.900 Jackie, are you here?

00:05:04.120 Where's Jackie?

00:05:05.020 Asking for Congresswoman Jackie Walorski, who had died in a car crash seven weeks earlier.

00:05:11.420 The president had publicly mourned her death when it happened,

00:05:14.840 even lowering White House flags in her honor.

00:05:17.500 But he remembered none of it.

00:05:19.940 Tapper did occasionally press White House officials...

00:05:23.000 Watch him, right?

00:05:24.140 Watch him.

00:05:24.720 And he...

00:05:26.280 They are watching him.

00:05:27.760 That's what I'm saying.

00:05:28.340 That's the 77% who are concerned.

00:05:30.300 No, no, no.

00:05:30.740 It is hard for us to keep up with this president.

00:05:33.840 The same president who couldn't remember the name of Hamas.

00:05:37.560 There's been a response from the opposition.

00:05:42.040 Then came the bombshell, her special counsel report.

00:05:46.260 Mr. Herr described President Biden as an elderly man with a poor memory who could not remember

00:05:51.460 when he was vice president or the year his son Beau died.

00:05:55.840 I think anybody sitting down for an interview like that where you're being asked specific

00:05:59.240 dates over and over again, you're not going to remember every single one.

00:06:02.100 In early June 2024, a Wall Street Journal story exposed concerns from members of Congress

00:06:07.780 about a diminishing president.

00:06:09.760 There's been a relentless focus in some news outlets on minor slips by our president that

00:06:15.880 I frankly think are typical of anyone who's keeping a demanding 14-hour-a-day schedule.

00:06:21.220 A coordinated message claimed conservative media was deceptively editing clips.

00:06:26.720 In major areas where people get their news, this lie or this concept about Joe Biden is being validated.

00:06:34.100 Fake videos of President Biden that are being referred to as cheap fakes.

00:06:38.540 They're cheap.

00:06:39.220 They're just distorted, out-of-context videos, chopped up in certain ways, constructed in certain ways.

00:06:44.280 He's far beyond cogent.

00:06:46.560 In fact, I think he's better than he's ever been.

00:06:49.300 Joining me now, Jake Tapper.

00:06:53.480 He's the host of The Lead with Jake Tapper on CNN and Alex Thompson.

00:06:57.820 Alex is a national political correspondent for Axios.

00:07:01.400 These days, it feels like nothing surprises us anymore, but not in a good way.

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00:08:09.060 Guys, welcome to the show.

00:08:10.720 Thanks, Megan.

00:08:11.540 Thanks so much for having us.

00:08:13.180 Yeah, great to have you.

00:08:14.100 All right, first of all, Jake, explain why it's called Original Sin.

00:08:18.020 It's called Original Sin because right after the election, we started talking to Democratic

00:08:23.580 sources who were telling us how horrible things were, not just in front of the cameras and

00:08:28.440 all those clips you showed, but how much worse it was actually behind the scenes.

00:08:32.000 And one of them said to me that the original sin was that Biden should not have run for re-election

00:08:39.060 to begin with, which then necessitated the cover-up of how bad things actually were.

00:08:46.880 And that term, Original Sin, just stuck with me.

00:08:50.520 Um, some, when Alex and I talked about doing the book, uh, I think the day before election

00:08:55.520 day, um, I, I already thought Original Sin would be the perfect title because it just

00:09:00.420 gets at how momentous a decision this way was, how momentous a mistake this was to run

00:09:07.260 for re-election.

00:09:07.780 And then, of course, the cover-up.

00:09:10.260 Alex, we understand that you originally had drafted a book along these lines, but then

00:09:15.060 the deal fell apart.

00:09:16.300 So how did it get revived?

00:09:18.460 When did publishers get interested in what you were trying to tell?

00:09:22.880 Well, my book project actually was different.

00:09:25.220 I mean, it was a Biden book, but it was with Simon and Schuster.

00:09:28.180 Um, they signed the deal in January of 2021 and it was supposed to come out before the

00:09:32.620 election.

00:09:32.960 And, you know, maybe there was, there was maybe going to be some age stuff, but it was

00:09:36.420 much more about the family dynamics and how they affected the president and the presidency.

00:09:42.700 Um, ultimately the book deal, uh, did fall apart.

00:09:46.140 Simon and Schuster canceled the book in October of 2023.

00:09:49.920 Um, there are a few reasons, uh, for that.

00:09:52.620 Uh, one was I was running behind, uh, two, uh, Biden books were not selling well.

00:09:58.880 And third, you know, there was a, uh, honestly like a, a difference of what sort of book we

00:10:04.720 were, we wanted.

00:10:05.800 And that was most manifest in sort of, uh, uh, debate, uh, or, you know, clash over the

00:10:12.920 title of the book.

00:10:13.720 And I wanted to call the book haunted because the thesis of the book was, he's haunted by

00:10:18.200 his son, Beau.

00:10:18.840 He's haunted by the Hunter stuff, by the Obama comparisons, by, um, the idea that Trump could

00:10:23.460 win again.

00:10:24.000 Um, and they wanted to call the book, uh, soul man or, um, shadow boxer.

00:10:29.720 And, um, I, uh, I said, no, and, uh, good hill to die on.

00:10:36.520 I just, uh, it was an expensive, it was an expensive hill to die on.

00:10:41.860 So I returned them.

00:10:42.960 I returned the advance.

00:10:44.000 And then, um, you know, I obviously had some Biden reporting and it was interested in trying

00:10:49.140 to revive some sort of project on Biden because I'd covered him for so long.

00:10:53.660 Um, and it was really, the book was Jake's idea, uh, about making it focused on this one

00:11:00.160 issue of the Biden presidency.

00:11:02.020 Yeah.

00:11:02.400 This is the issue.

00:11:03.600 Okay.

00:11:03.820 I got it.

00:11:04.220 Let me keep going.

00:11:05.000 Yeah.

00:11:05.100 Um, let's just, let's, let's go right to the controversy around the book and then we'll

00:11:09.160 get to the contents of the book, which I definitely want to spend time on.

00:11:12.440 As you know, um, this book, it's right in the, the subtitle, it involves coverage of

00:11:17.960 the so-called coverup.

00:11:19.260 But Jake, the criticism has been that you're complaining about a coverup about Joe Biden's

00:11:25.040 mental acuity that failed, that right-wing pundits saw, the right-wing in general saw,

00:11:31.220 that independent media saw and reported on.

00:11:33.960 And that was no mystery even to left-wing and so-called mainstream reporters who were not

00:11:40.540 fooled, but chose willful blindness instead of honest reporting and that you were part

00:11:47.160 of it.

00:11:47.700 How do you respond?

00:11:48.300 It's a, it's a, it's a tough and fair question.

00:11:53.240 Uh, I would say that Alex and I, after election day, um, interviewed more than 200 people, 200,

00:12:02.580 uh, mostly democratic insiders.

00:12:04.340 And all of these interviews were almost all of these interviews were after the election

00:12:08.580 and they justified to themselves what they had done in terms of misrepresenting how the

00:12:16.660 president was, not just, uh, to me and Alex and other reporters, but also just to each

00:12:22.660 other and to the world and to Democrats and to the cabinet, et cetera, by, by saying that

00:12:27.060 there was this existential threat of Donald Trump and only Joe Biden could be Donald Trump.

00:12:30.520 And that justified everything in their minds after that existential threat was over.

00:12:35.200 Cause the election was over and Donald Trump won.

00:12:37.080 They were, we found Alex and myself, um, remarkably willing to talk to us, uh, either off the record

00:12:44.260 or on background, or in some cases on the record about what they saw.

00:12:47.680 One of the things that emerged was that, uh, there were two Bidens.

00:12:53.400 One was the fine Biden, uh, serviceable, adequate.

00:12:57.940 And the other one was a, is a non-functioning Biden.

00:13:00.760 And that's the one we saw the night of the debate.

00:13:02.920 Uh, and that's the one we saw some clips of here and there, uh, that you just showed.

00:13:06.680 And that non-functioning Biden, the one that lost his train of thought in a significant way,

00:13:11.660 not in the way just that every human loses their train of thought, but in a way that shows

00:13:15.520 that he's having trouble, uh, articulating his very views.

00:13:19.600 Um, and the one who forgot the name of close aides, who was not able to come up with George

00:13:26.140 Clooney's name, didn't seem to recognize him, all that sort of thing.

00:13:30.080 That non-functioning Biden was, according to our reporting, showed up as, as far back as 2015,

00:13:37.940 uh, after the death of Bo, where one top aide said that that tragedy, the loss of Bo, um,

00:13:44.520 was like, uh, watching somebody pour water on sand.

00:13:47.420 That was the effect on his psyche.

00:13:49.040 And there were other moments, uh, 2017, 2018, you hear some, the, her report, one of the

00:13:54.020 reasons he came to that conclusion was because of the recordings they heard of Joe Biden in

00:13:57.900 2017, talking to his ghostwriter in which he was similarly inclined.

00:14:02.800 Uh, obviously in 2019, 2020, there were other moments like that.

00:14:06.120 Most of his campaign staff and others would say like, he's, you know, he's 78, he's 79.

00:14:10.320 He has senior moments, but he's fine.

00:14:12.480 He's fine.

00:14:12.760 Well, he wasn't fine.

00:14:15.080 And in, uh, in, throughout his presidency, um, that non-functioning Biden would show up

00:14:22.700 more and more and more.

00:14:23.640 And he was worse and worse and worse, really, uh, deteriorating tremendously.

00:14:29.760 Uh, the next time there was a really horrible family incident, which was when Hunter Biden's

00:14:35.120 plea deal fell apart in the summer of 2023.

00:14:37.560 And then obviously in June, he was convicted.

00:14:40.680 Um, and the thought, the fear of losing his son, not to jail, but maybe to another, to

00:14:46.520 a relapse, to an overdose, to a suicide, who knows?

00:14:48.660 It was a very real fear.

00:14:50.620 And, uh, the, the, the, the threat of losing a third child, um, really just diminished him

00:14:57.260 tremendously according to top aides.

00:14:58.920 So all of which is to say that this was a deterioration.

00:15:02.900 And this was a, this was a progression and look, knowing what I know now, obviously I feel

00:15:10.860 tremendous humility about my coverage, uh, that Laura Trump interview, for example, et

00:15:17.180 cetera.

00:15:17.460 She saw some, she saw something that I did not see at the time, a hundred percent.

00:15:24.500 And I own that.

00:15:25.820 I did ask Joe Biden, uh, to be transparent about his health records in an interview in

00:15:30.820 2020.

00:15:31.180 I did ask him about the fact that voters thought that he, he was not transparent at all.

00:15:37.480 No, he promised you that he would be transparent about his health records.

00:15:40.020 And then he wasn't.

00:15:40.900 And when you sat with him again, including one month, including one month after the Jackie

00:15:45.140 Walorsky thing, you didn't ask him about it.

00:15:47.900 You didn't follow up on the fact that he was falling up the stairs, that he was losing

00:15:52.360 his train of thought regularly, that he was slurring, that he was incomprehensible, that

00:15:56.240 he was getting lost on the white house lawn.

00:15:57.960 You sat right across from him and you asked none of that, notwithstanding the fact that

00:16:01.640 he had promised you he would be fully transparent about his health issues.

00:16:05.640 That's true.

00:16:07.380 But I did ask him about his age and the fact that the American people had concluded that

00:16:12.420 even though he said, whenever anybody brought up the subject of his age, watch me.

00:16:16.600 And I said, yes, they're watching you and they are concerned that you are too old for

00:16:20.820 this job.

00:16:21.520 So, you know, you, you know, as well as I do, that there's a way of, you can say, Hey, there's

00:16:26.700 this poll on your age.

00:16:27.840 Or you could say, you just forgot that Jackie Walorsky was dead.

00:16:32.520 You, you asked where she was moments after watching a videotape tribute to her.

00:16:39.040 You lowered the flags at the white house after she died.

00:16:43.360 This happened 13 days before you sat with him.

00:16:46.160 There is a way of pressing a man like that on the actual infirmities to bring it home

00:16:51.440 to him and to the audience.

00:16:52.900 And you didn't do it.

00:16:54.720 That's correct.

00:16:55.380 I didn't.

00:16:55.920 And like I said, I feel humility about my coverage.

00:16:58.400 I mean, it's not like I was asking him his favorite movie or his favorite color.

00:17:01.820 We were talking about Putin.

00:17:03.800 We were talking about other issues of national importance.

00:17:06.680 But yeah, I mean, of course I've said, I look back at my coverage with humility and, and

00:17:13.660 I wish I did cover the issues of age and acuity, but I wish I had covered them much more.

00:17:20.080 And I wish, I mean, of course, in it's May, 2025.

00:17:27.040 Do I wish that in that 10, 15 minute interview I had with Biden in October, 2022, that this had been the only subject because I had then.

00:17:38.300 Well, it wasn't just that though, Jake.

00:17:39.520 It wasn't just that.

00:17:40.240 I mean, you sat with him a couple of times in the course of his presidency and these issues were not pressed.

00:17:44.580 Well, there was at least that time.

00:17:46.320 And then there was the time at the beginning and, but separate and apart from that, you covered the Biden's presidency.

00:17:52.460 No, no, no.

00:17:52.820 Let me, let me just finish my point.

00:17:54.260 I'm just saying I had one interview with him during his.

00:17:56.800 I had one interview with him during the presidency.

00:17:58.400 And it was 13 days after the Jackie Walorski thing, but you covered the Biden presidency aggressively throughout the four years.

00:18:03.800 And you didn't cover mental acuity hardly at all.

00:18:07.680 I mean, time and time again, when issues came up, you seem to be running cover for the president.

00:18:13.000 I don't think that's true.

00:18:14.780 Well, I mean, we'll start with the Laura Trump issue that you referred.

00:18:17.380 Here it is.

00:18:18.440 This happened in 2020.

00:18:21.500 Joe Biden, as we all know, has worked to overcome a stutter.

00:18:24.400 How do you think it makes little kids with stutters feel when they see you make a comment like that?

00:18:28.960 First and foremost, I had no idea that Joe Biden ever suffered from a stutter.

00:18:36.500 I think what we see on stage with Joe Biden, Jake, is very clearly a cognitive decline.

00:18:42.120 That's what I'm referring to.

00:18:43.380 It makes me uncomfortable.

00:18:44.460 You are.

00:18:47.080 That's so amazing.

00:18:48.280 You're trying to tell me that what I was suggesting was.

00:18:51.020 I think that you were mocking his stutter.

00:18:52.880 Yeah, I think you were mocking his stutter.

00:18:54.620 And I think you have absolutely no standing to diagnose somebody's cognitive decline.

00:18:58.480 And it's very concerning to a lot of people that this could be the leader of the free world.

00:19:03.620 That is all I'm saying.

00:19:04.620 I genuinely feel sorry for Joe Biden.

00:19:06.840 I appreciate it.

00:19:07.620 I'm sure it was from a place of concern.

00:19:09.080 We all we all believe that.

00:19:10.060 Laura Trump, thank you so much.

00:19:12.860 Do you want to apologize to Laura Trump now?

00:19:16.540 I've already apologized to her.

00:19:17.880 I called her months ago.

00:19:19.800 And what did she say?

00:19:22.300 I mean, I don't want to disclose the contents of a private conversation, but I thought the conversation went well.

00:19:27.620 And she said she has said this publicly, so I feel fine sharing it.

00:19:32.420 She said that she would never mock anybody's stutter.

00:19:34.720 But I mean, you know, after we did the research for this book and I realized how bad his acuity issues were, I like I mean, I I called Laura Trump and I said you were you were right.

00:19:51.080 She was totally right.

00:19:52.920 That's the thing, because when I watched that clip and I'm giving voice to what a lot of people watching the show are feeling, Jake, I feel angry because she was right.

00:20:01.620 And not only did you not allow her to make her comments, but you you seem to try to humiliate her.

00:20:07.880 You had a hostility toward the position, but she was totally right.

00:20:12.080 Right. And then you lectured her on how she was in no position to diagnose cognitive decline, which you guys do at length, including on page four of your book.

00:20:23.280 You describe at length his cognitive decline, which is all she tried to do with you.

00:20:27.260 But you had such a visceral reaction to her.

00:20:29.980 And my feeling is that's because you didn't want to hear it.

00:20:34.120 Now, I mean, we can I'm happy to talk about this.

00:20:37.020 I didn't come here thinking that you weren't going to ask me about this.

00:20:39.620 I'm happy to talk to you about it. The first time I saw the coverage of Laura Trump's comments, which were interpreted as her mocking Joe Biden's stutter, was in January 2020.

00:20:52.600 I read it in conservative media. I read it in the Daily Mail.

00:20:56.120 And that's where I saw that her comments were being interpreted that way.

00:21:01.300 After those comments were publicized, it got a lot of coverage.

00:21:07.420 And Sully Sullenberger wrote an op-ed in The New York Times criticizing her about this.

00:21:13.660 So that's the context for that, that I was following up on a story that had been out there months before.

00:21:24.500 This is also in the context of October 2020, a very intense time.

00:21:29.620 People on the Biden side are saying crazy things about Trump.

00:21:32.660 People on the Trump side are saying crazy things about Biden, including Don Jr.

00:21:36.220 suggesting that Joe Biden is a pedophile.

00:21:37.780 So that is the larger context.

00:21:41.100 But as I said, her comments have aged well.

00:21:45.240 My comments have aged poorly.

00:21:47.700 I own that.

00:21:49.420 But I think what is significant is, in addition to me owning that, the reporting that Alex and I have done, which is beyond just.

00:21:59.440 And when I say just, I don't I don't mean to diminish it, but the comments of Joe Biden making gaffes, saying things stupid, tripping are all important and all deserved to be aired and all deserve scrutiny.

00:22:14.660 But as you know, Megan, because even though you look 30 years younger than me, we're roughly the same age.

00:22:19.880 Joe Biden has been saying stupid things for decades.

00:22:22.040 I get what you're saying, but but that but this minimizes it, too, because it was more than saying stupid things.

00:22:29.140 But I'm just I'm telling you, like over here in my ecosphere, we were covering all of these.

00:22:34.140 It wasn't just falling down.

00:22:35.460 It was getting lost.

00:22:36.860 It was some of the stuff you report in your book.

00:22:38.840 We knew and we were reporting on like the multi jump cuts in the videos of him or it was obvious he couldn't get through a one minute take.

00:22:47.820 So they had to use those.

00:22:49.320 It was clear to us that he was using teleprompter.

00:22:52.040 In and and there was some reporting on that at the time, all of which the White House was denying.

00:22:56.580 Now, with the current White House, I have some connections with the Joe Biden White House.

00:23:01.140 I had none.

00:23:02.300 But you did.

00:23:03.460 You did.

00:23:04.180 And so while you've been in Washington 30 years, Jake, you guys, you and CNN have White House connections.

00:23:10.940 But there was no effort, none to get to the bottom of this.

00:23:14.140 And now this book like there was a cover up.

00:23:17.140 It's like you there was a cover up and there was an attempted cover up.

00:23:20.780 It could only ever work if you allowed it, if the press allowed it.

00:23:25.840 Some of us tried not to.

00:23:27.080 And some of us were complicit.

00:23:28.340 First of all, the Biden White House did not like me.

00:23:36.120 OK, this is I do not have great connections with the Biden White House.

00:23:39.760 Well, clearly, you have a lot of sources.

00:23:41.060 You say you talked to over 200 sources for this book.

00:23:43.040 So you have some you could have called and worked.

00:23:46.280 I know that's the point is that they were not being honest.

00:23:50.380 That's the point.

00:23:50.860 The Wall Street Journal get it in June of twenty twenty four.

00:23:53.480 And Jake Tapper and CNN couldn't find sources for this story then before he dropped out.

00:23:58.660 Annie Linsky and Siobhan Hughes did an amazing job in their reporting and and they should be heralded.

00:24:06.460 And I heralded them.

00:24:07.380 I had them on my show right after the debate to talk about their great reporting.

00:24:11.540 But Annie Linsky.

00:24:12.580 But you did not put them on when they published that story, which was before the debate.

00:24:19.020 Correct.

00:24:19.640 I don't know what the booking situation was, but it wasn't because I didn't want them.

00:24:22.740 I'm sure I said that day let's book.

00:24:24.640 I'm sure I said that day let's book.

00:24:26.500 Did they?

00:24:27.220 Yeah, you put on a Democrat and and you allowed the Democrat to rip on the report as a Rupert Murdoch sponsored hit piece.

00:24:35.560 No, no, no.

00:24:36.140 It's just again that's going to do if we're going to do this.

00:24:40.760 Let's just stick to the facts here.

00:24:42.620 OK, when there is a damaging report, that's what I've been doing all along.

00:24:47.880 I'm talking about what you just didn't miss the biggest story of the century when it comes to presidential politics.

00:24:53.760 And one of us did.

00:24:56.140 OK, so the there is a difference.

00:25:01.560 OK, between the clips of Joe Biden falling on a stage at the Air Force Academy graduation, there is a difference between the clip of Joe Biden embarrassingly forget forgetting that a Republican member of Congress who he's talking about has died.

00:25:19.100 Those are embarrassing.

00:25:20.880 Those are important.

00:25:22.420 But there is a difference between that and the investigative journalism that Alex and I were able to do and only able to do after the election.

00:25:31.420 And I know you know this because you've been talking about the scoops in the book and you've been talking about I don't diminish the importance of the book.

00:25:37.600 I don't. I have supported the importance of the book and we'll talk about the contents of the book at length.

00:25:43.140 But there is no way we can have that conversation with an audience that is as skeptical of your ability to tell the story as mine is without addressing your role in this.

00:25:54.100 Right. Like Alex is a different story.

00:25:55.640 But, you know, you've watched the coverage since it came out that you wrote this book.

00:26:00.120 There are this allegion of articles about how comparing you in some instances to like OJ instead of if I did it, this is if I hid it, that like you are not the right messenger to bring the story about the cover up because you helped.

00:26:17.360 You allowed it. You allowed it. And you likely did that out of a desire to help Joe Biden and hurt Donald Trump.

00:26:25.800 You didn't want to do anything that might improve Trump's chances.

00:26:29.860 I do not think that that is accurate. I do not think that that is true at all.

00:26:35.400 The idea that Siobhan and Annie do their piece and we have on the co-chair of the Biden campaign is not me trying to cover for the Biden campaign.

00:26:44.180 That is me putting the questions of the reporting that were made to him and saying things like, so you really haven't seen any moment or you would acknowledge that you wouldn't you acknowledge that he's lost a step.

00:26:55.480 He's 81, et cetera, et cetera. Like I said before, do if I had known then what I know now, would I have been more aggressive?

00:27:06.040 Yes, of course. How did I know? And you didn't know.

00:27:08.860 I'm just curious because when I saw that Wall Street Journal report in June of 24, I scoffed at it like, OK, it's it's an attempt, but it's lame.

00:27:18.680 Everybody on the right wing ecosystem and the independent media ecosystem knew it was a lame attempt that only scratched the surface.

00:27:24.880 We had all been discussing his serious cognitive problems for years by that point.

00:27:30.380 Jake, in June of 2022, this show did a full two hour program on his cognitive decline.

00:27:37.320 I heard it. It was I know we want to pretend I'm mentioning the Wall Street Journal out of as a courtesy.

00:27:42.800 But those of us on this side of the aisle had been reporting in depth on his multiple problems and the obvious lies we were being told for years, for years.

00:27:50.680 You really want the audience to believe you were fooled?

00:27:56.300 What do you mean I was fooled? I'm not saying I was fooled.

00:27:59.240 I'm saying we all saw these moments before the camera and they were obviously concerning and he was obviously aging and that was significant.

00:28:07.760 But the people at the White House. I'm trying to answer the question.

00:28:12.080 But so the people at the White House, when I would call, when others would call, when Alex would call, would lie.

00:28:17.620 He's fine. He's fine. He's fine. You'd call Democrats and say, what are you seeing behind the scenes here?

00:28:23.180 Because this is concerning. He's fine. He's fine. This is just a moment.

00:28:27.480 He's 79. He's 80. He has moments like that, but he's fine. His decision making is fine.

00:28:31.420 They're still saying that they're still saying that. And let me defend Annie and Siobhan there for a second,

00:28:37.180 because you just said that their Wall Street Journal story just scratched the service.

00:28:41.060 They got what they could get in June 2024. And I went back and Alex and I went back to report some of the same things that they reported on.

00:28:52.020 For example, there was a meeting in the White House about Ukraine funding in January 2024.

00:28:57.420 And we were able to get people to say things as a Democratic member of Congress that I look, I don't know who Annie and Siobhan's sources are, but they were not able to get them to do that.

00:29:09.160 I assume that, you know, they had dozens of sources for that article, but not one of the Democrats that they talked to would even talk on background.

00:29:17.920 It is a complicated thing to try to get to.

00:29:21.580 But your commentary on your show. Yes, I'm going to bring you in.

00:29:25.240 But your commentary on your show, Jake, consistently ran in one direction.

00:29:29.840 Occasionally you would ask some tough questions. I mean, here you are on September 2023 saying that Biden was sharp mentally.

00:29:38.060 September of 2023. You said. Hold on.

00:29:41.780 You said he's sharp mentally. I think the question is physically right.

00:29:45.100 He's sharp mentally. And then you pointed out that his opponent, Donald Trump, was only a couple of years younger than he was.

00:29:50.400 There are many examples where you're doing that kind of coverage.

00:29:53.480 OK, so let's let's be honest and and full about what you're talking about.

00:29:58.820 Frank, there's no problem with honesty on this show.

00:30:03.100 OK, yeah. Frank, let's watch it. Let's watch it.

00:30:05.980 Yeah. Frank Ford came on with a biography about Joe Biden for came on to talk about his biography with Joe Biden.

00:30:12.240 And I'm trying to summarize what his conclusions were.

00:30:16.880 So he is saying that Biden was.

00:30:19.220 Where is the part where you say he's not sharp mentally, Frank?

00:30:23.820 We've seen the following 10 examples in the past year.

00:30:27.340 Never mind three years.

00:30:31.540 Where I wasn't.

00:30:32.900 I've already said I wish I had covered this more aggressively.

00:30:36.380 Frank Ford had come to the show to talk about his book about President Biden.

00:30:40.940 This was in September 2023.

00:30:44.560 And I interviewed him about his book.

00:30:49.560 And that was the end of that.

00:30:51.160 Now, I suppose in retrospect, I say again, I wish I had been more aggressive.

00:30:56.060 I do.

00:30:56.520 But our reporting suggests, and like I said, we've talked to more than 200 people, Democratic insiders, that the real deterioration of President Biden.

00:31:07.360 And yes, there was a degression, a regression, whatever you want to call it, deterioration since 2015.

00:31:12.660 But it really started to intensify in the summer of 2023 when Hunter Biden's plea deal fell apart and Joe Biden was terrified about what that effect would have on his son.

00:31:26.900 I accept that.

00:31:27.760 I accept that it got worse in 2023.

00:31:29.360 And people close to him say that was a real demarcation.

00:31:34.580 And in October 2023, there is the last cabinet meeting for almost a year.

00:31:41.420 And cabinet secretaries tell us that that began, that fall 2023 began what they call a weird period where they were kept at bay, where they were kept away from President Biden.

00:31:53.060 And now we're getting a substance, which I do want to talk about.

00:31:55.280 I'm about to switch to that.

00:31:56.360 But let me let me just ask you, because when we got to leading up to the debate, which you anchored that June 27th debate, 2024, there was a ton of news leading into that debate in that month.

00:32:07.060 And we look back at your coverage and found that you ignored it.

00:32:11.560 Not only did you ignore the Jackie Walersky moment when you had him 13 days later, but you ignored the freeze up that he had at the Juneteenth celebration.

00:32:20.300 You ignored what happened at the G7 when he wandered off and Georgia Maloney, prime minister of Italy, had to go find him.

00:32:26.660 You ignored the freeze up at the George Clooney L.A. fundraiser.

00:32:31.260 You didn't cover it.

00:32:32.700 You only covered it after the debate, after George Clooney wrote his op-ed.

00:32:38.920 Jake, nobody made you do that.

00:32:41.320 There was your network at every turn was telling us those were, quote, cheap fakes.

00:32:46.720 And you were not combating that narrative.

00:32:48.680 You were it's CNN was actively misleading us on what our very eyes were showing us.

00:32:55.480 That's the truth.

00:32:56.720 That's the record.

00:32:58.780 I will.

00:33:01.060 Acknowledge that after I was named moderator, co-moderator of the debate, I tried to make sure that my coverage was fairly vanilla, both about Trump and about Biden,

00:33:14.540 because I just wanted to get to the debate and, you know, the Biden people and the Trump people.

00:33:21.020 I'm kind of frankly surprised that either one of them agreed to have me as a moderator because both sides disliked me so much.

00:33:30.600 But, yeah, I remember that moment and I remember that moment, the glitch at the immigration event and not getting much attention outside of conservative media at all.

00:33:41.160 And Alex and I are here to say that conservative media was right and conservative media was correct and that there should be a lot of soul searching, not just among me, but among the legacy media to begin with.

00:33:56.960 All of us for how this was covered or not covered sufficiently.

00:34:00.300 One hundred percent.

00:34:03.260 So.

00:34:05.200 I mean, I'm not here to defend coverage that I've already acknowledged.

00:34:08.820 I wish I could do differently.

00:34:10.640 Mm hmm.

00:34:11.240 Let me bring Alex in.

00:34:12.400 Thank you for your patience, Alex.

00:34:13.800 And apologies for the.

00:34:15.660 I think he's fine.

00:34:16.480 I think he's fine.

00:34:17.200 You may not be aware of this based on what just happened.

00:34:19.720 But Jake and I are actually friends.

00:34:21.040 And this is all said in the context of I know what my audience wants to hear asked.

00:34:27.040 And Jake has told me before he wanted the opportunity to answer these questions.

00:34:31.520 So, Megan, Megan, we didn't come on the show thinking that this was going to be a softball interview.

00:34:39.720 I understand.

00:34:41.080 Like, listen, listen.

00:34:43.340 As a the first one, nobody flagellates Jake Tapper more than Jake Tapper.

00:34:47.940 OK, like I I get it.

00:34:49.700 I understand I am fallible.

00:34:52.080 I make mistakes.

00:34:53.280 It's not just the Biden coverage.

00:34:54.620 I mean, I go back and I look at like I wish I had been covering terrorism more before 9-11.

00:34:59.480 I wish that I had covered the WMD with more skepticism.

00:35:02.220 And there's, you know, a million things.

00:35:04.240 This is definitely among them.

00:35:06.880 And conservative media absolutely has every right to say we were hip to this and the legacy media was not.

00:35:14.620 Now, I do not accept that I was part of a cover up.

00:35:18.540 I do not accept that I was just providing cover for Joe Biden.

00:35:23.060 I think a lot of these clips are not fair.

00:35:25.600 The one that is fair is the Laura Trump clip.

00:35:28.040 And I own it.

00:35:29.120 And I regret it.

00:35:30.340 And I've told her that privately.

00:35:32.320 And that's completely fair.

00:35:34.940 But what we uncovered after the election, what people were willing to tell us after the election was so shocking.

00:35:44.540 And, yeah, the Jackie Walorsky thing is awful.

00:35:46.580 But I would posit that President Biden not being able to come up with the name of his national security advisor in December 2022 is important information.

00:35:58.140 And I would also posit.

00:35:59.200 I'm not arguing that the book has no place in importance.

00:36:02.220 Let me ask Alex something.

00:36:03.240 So you may be aware the hard time I've given you on this show is not because of your coverage of the Biden mental decline.

00:36:10.440 I've given you a hard time over the past couple of weeks because you you were honored by the White House Correspondents Dinner for covering this story, which honestly is like getting the award for being the thinnest kid at fat camp.

00:36:23.060 I mean, there was literally no competition at the White House Correspondents Association dinner that they would even consider.

00:36:31.080 You know, they're not going to give awards to anybody in the right wing ecosphere who covered this from the beginning.

00:36:35.400 With all due respect to you, Alex.

00:36:37.140 But when you got up there, you actually got up there and said we, myself included, missed a lot of this story.

00:36:45.820 And we bear some responsibility for faith in the media being at such lows.

00:36:50.100 But we, the media, did not miss this story.

00:36:53.060 Alex, we did not miss this story.

00:36:55.320 We were all over this story.

00:36:56.960 We were night and day covering this story.

00:36:59.420 The we.

00:36:59.820 Correct.

00:37:00.060 We knew you hated the we after he said it.

00:37:02.980 We talked about this.

00:37:03.920 It was insane.

00:37:04.660 It was an insane comment to make.

00:37:06.640 Who are you talking about?

00:37:07.340 He meant the we in the room.

00:37:08.120 He was talking about the people in the room.

00:37:08.720 Be quiet.

00:37:09.180 It's not your turn to talk anymore.

00:37:10.520 It's Alex's turn.

00:37:11.260 Thank you.

00:37:12.160 Who is we?

00:37:12.460 Thank you.

00:37:13.540 I can defend myself.

00:37:15.420 No, we were the people in the room.

00:37:17.380 I mean, like, I was getting, it was the White House Correspondents Dinner.

00:37:20.560 I was talking to the people in the room that covered Joe Biden.

00:37:23.180 All right.

00:37:23.200 So here's my follow up.

00:37:24.000 Got it.

00:37:24.560 Here's the follow up.

00:37:25.220 We, we, if that's who we is, did not miss the story.

00:37:30.940 We in that room intentionally chose not to cover the story or dig into the story, which

00:37:38.740 is a massive story that we have missed in Original Sin.

00:37:44.800 All right.

00:37:45.320 I'm glad you asked me this question because I heard you rip me to shreds the night out,

00:37:49.460 the Monday after the dinner.

00:37:51.420 And at first I was, I was, I meant to say was congratulations and.

00:37:54.400 Um, and, um, at first I was defensive, but then I was, you know, I thought about it also,

00:38:00.700 you know, from your all perspective, especially like the missed part.

00:38:04.760 And like your readers, your readers that were saying, Hey, there's a problem here or not

00:38:10.900 your readers for your listeners saying there's a problem here.

00:38:13.200 And I'm not seeing it reflected in the media and.

00:38:17.920 And after the debate happens, everyone to be like, Oh my God, there's a problem.

00:38:22.340 Um, I'd be pissed too.

00:38:23.520 Cause you would feel like you weren't listened to.

00:38:25.260 And that, um, and I'm sure that a lot of people felt that it was because, um, some reporters

00:38:31.740 let their own personal politics get in the way.

00:38:35.060 And let's be honest, like a lot of newsrooms in DC and New York are more liberal than not.

00:38:40.860 And they, I mean, I'll just say for myself, I think some of them let their own personal

00:38:46.040 politics get in the way.

00:38:47.220 But in terms of the missed part, uh, the reason I said missed is because I think there were

00:38:52.420 a lot of really great reporters on this beat.

00:38:55.600 And I know you may disagree.

00:38:56.920 I know your listeners may disagree, but I was in the white house, you know, every day.

00:39:00.360 And I think, um, a lot of them really do try and do some really great work every single

00:39:07.140 day that sometimes you also use on this show from the New York times and others.

00:39:12.220 And I felt that basically saying that, uh, calling everyone in the room, not a good faith

00:39:19.640 reporter, I didn't think was fair.

00:39:21.700 And so I was, I said, miss to sort of give grace for both.

00:39:27.940 Well, that's sweet.

00:39:29.220 I I'm less graceful than you are and, uh, less forgiving, but that's fine.

00:39:33.460 Takes all kinds.

00:39:34.640 Let's go.

00:39:35.300 Let's do some substance.

00:39:36.220 Okay.

00:39:36.600 Of the book is we still have some time and I want to get into it.

00:39:39.040 You guys write in original sin out today, the Biden coverup may not be unique, but it

00:39:44.540 is arguably the most consequential.

00:39:46.820 So what do you mean by that?

00:39:48.420 How, how so Alex?

00:39:49.540 Well, we've seen this before Wilson, uh, you know, and Edith Wilson, his wife after a stroke

00:39:58.460 FDR was incredibly sick during the 1944 campaign.

00:40:01.740 Um, you know, we obviously know a little bit more now about JFK, um, and Ronald Reagan.

00:40:08.660 I'd say two reasons.

00:40:10.040 One is, you know, the FDR one wasn't as consequential because he won.

00:40:14.600 Um, we, so you mean amongst health coverups.

00:40:18.040 That's what you mean.

00:40:18.720 Yes, that's what I meant.

00:40:21.140 I think that's what we mentioned in the book.

00:40:22.620 Um, yeah, sorry.

00:40:24.300 All right, let's keep going.

00:40:25.280 Um, you, you write that you spoke with at least four cabinet secretaries of Joe Biden's

00:40:30.440 and that they said he could not be relied upon to quote, perform at 2am during an emergency.

00:40:35.460 So, and here's just a little bit more, they said access, by the end of 2024, quoting here

00:40:42.100 from your reporting, access dropped off considerably in 2024.

00:40:45.080 And one of the cabinet secretaries, number one, you referred to said, I did not interact

00:40:49.460 with him as much.

00:40:50.500 I didn't get an explanation.

00:40:52.180 Instead, that cabinet secretary would brief other senior white house aides who then briefed

00:40:57.280 the president.

00:40:57.860 Yes, the president is making the decisions, but if the inner circle is shaping them in such

00:41:01.320 a way, is it really a decision?

00:41:03.420 Are they leading him to something?

00:41:04.920 Said this one, a different cabinet secretary, number three, October, 2023, the cabinet was

00:41:10.800 kept at bay with the exceptions of Lloyd Austin and Antony Blinken quote for months.

00:41:15.820 We did not have access to him.

00:41:17.420 There was clearly a deliberate strategy by the white house to have him meet with as few

00:41:20.500 people as possible or as necessary at one rare meeting during that time.

00:41:24.600 Cabinet secretary three was quote shocked by how the president was acting.

00:41:27.620 He seemed disoriented and out of it, his mouth.

00:41:31.320 Agape.

00:41:32.560 All I can think when I see that word, agape, Jake, is that debate that you hosted that I

00:41:37.660 just, that's what it was the whole time, agape to the point where I, when I was reading,

00:41:43.620 I listened to my news oftentimes on like these apps that will read you at the article and

00:41:48.540 the news readers, the AI news readers pronounce that word agape.

00:41:52.900 And all I heard for like, I must've heard 200 times agape the day after that debate.

00:41:58.880 So it was a pattern.

00:42:00.280 The cabinet secretaries were saying it, you saw it, we all saw it.

00:42:04.440 And yet, what did they tell you behind the scenes about what, if anything, they did about

00:42:09.400 it?

00:42:12.180 Well, nothing.

00:42:13.700 I mean, that's, that's the thing.

00:42:15.320 Uh, there is very little in terms of actual action that happened.

00:42:21.280 And one of the reasons for that, I think is because by the end of 2023 and then throughout

00:42:26.980 2024, so many people had been sequestered off from president Biden, uh, that there weren't

00:42:36.180 people that had any reliable information about his current condition.

00:42:41.100 And it's actually one of the interesting parts of the post debate coverage.

00:42:47.220 There are people in the white house that the communications effort, uh, communications

00:42:51.760 office of the Biden white house are trying to get them to go out and defend the president,

00:42:56.860 uh, and say, you, you know, I, I just met with him.

00:43:01.340 He's fine, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:02.160 And they had not seen him in weeks or even months.

00:43:06.680 They could not attest to his fitness when Ron Klain, the former Biden white house chief

00:43:13.080 of staff is calling around and trying to rally Democrats after the debate to speak about Biden's

00:43:20.480 acuity.

00:43:21.680 Many of them tell Klain, I haven't seen him in a year or I haven't seen him in a year and

00:43:27.660 a half.

00:43:28.720 Um, now Klain and Klain interprets that as his successor, Jeff Zients is managing the

00:43:35.380 portfolio poorly and should be doing more to have like, you know, make nice with Congress

00:43:41.220 stuff.

00:43:41.780 But Alex and I interpret that as they are hiding Biden from as many people as they can.

00:43:47.420 So there aren't as many people who have seen him.

00:43:50.280 I, and actually Nancy Pelosi, as we write about in the book, has a, has a private and

00:43:55.260 secret meeting with Biden after the debate where she's urging him to look at the polling

00:43:58.400 information.

00:43:59.280 And I don't know when the last time she had had a one-on-one with him was because she suggests

00:44:04.860 that after she stepped down as democratic leader, after the midterms of 2022, she barely

00:44:11.960 saw him.

00:44:12.600 And this is a theme throughout, uh, 2023, especially the last half of 2023 and 2024, how many people

00:44:21.220 didn't have access to him?

00:44:22.600 How many people didn't see him?

00:44:24.580 And that, and this, this was by design you write in the book that, uh, Alex, I'll bring

00:44:28.500 you in because there was a so-called what you write as about as a politburo surrounding

00:44:33.540 him.

00:44:33.820 It was four people plus Biden to make five.

00:44:36.500 Can you tell us who those people were?

00:44:38.440 And is the theory then that those are the four people who did know and worked as this,

00:44:44.380 as sort of cabal to keep everybody else at arm's length so that they wouldn't also have

00:44:49.560 full knowledge of his deterioration.

00:44:54.920 That to me.

00:44:56.420 Yeah.

00:44:57.380 Okay.

00:44:58.100 Um, so the people that we're naming would be Mike Donilon, Steve Reschetti, Mike Donald's

00:45:03.560 his top political advisor, Steve Reschetti's his top legislative advisor.

00:45:06.440 Um, Ron Klain, when he was chief of staff, Bruce Reed, uh, his basically longtime policy

00:45:13.440 advisor, um, you can, those are sort of the four, they were known as a politburo, gray

00:45:18.880 hairs, poobahs, and they were with him the most of anybody.

00:45:22.940 Now, if you were to ask them, and I still think even if you put them on truth serum today,

00:45:27.000 they would say he was fine.

00:45:29.120 Um, you know, I think, um, I don't know if they're lying or lying to themselves or it

00:45:36.080 doesn't matter.

00:45:36.580 Then there's this other sort of group that aren't the politburo, but are just as powerful.

00:45:40.920 And they were the ones that kept the schedule, uh, affected personnel and really built the

00:45:46.720 bubble.

00:45:47.080 And that would be Annie Tomasini, who was deputy chief of staff and previously Oval Office

00:45:51.900 operations.

00:45:52.720 And then Anthony Bernal, who was the top aide slash enforcer for First Lady Jill Biden and

00:45:59.720 had incredible influence to the point that even people in the Biden White House would

00:46:05.000 refer to her as one of the most powerful First Ladies in history.

00:46:08.420 You write about this guy, Bernal, a lot, and it's, it's, you suggest, Jake, it was very

00:46:13.900 tough to find anybody with a nice word to say about this guy who is Jill Biden's top person.

00:46:19.340 Yeah.

00:46:19.780 And he, he acknowledged that he had a tough reputation.

00:46:21.960 He was the chief of staff for Jill Biden and perhaps the most powerful First Lady chief

00:46:27.140 of staff in, in the history of this country.

00:46:29.940 Uh, he is somebody that enforced what Jill Biden wanted.

00:46:33.400 And at the end of the day, one of the things that was interesting when, when we wrote this

00:46:37.340 book and researched this book was trying to figure out why was there no discussion of

00:46:41.780 whether or not he should run for reelection?

00:46:44.140 Why was it just a foregone conclusion that he was going to run for reelection, especially

00:46:47.320 after he had made this kind of vague promise that he would be a one-term president?

00:46:51.960 And it came down to two people, one of whom spoke for Biden, that's Mike Donilon, and the

00:46:56.800 other one spoke for First Lady Jill Biden, and that's Anthony Bernal.

00:47:00.280 And basically they communicated to the rest of the staff, um, Bernal would say, you run

00:47:07.320 for two terms, you serve for two terms, you don't do one.

00:47:10.360 And, uh, and Mike Donilon would say, you know, Biden's made the decision he's running.

00:47:15.120 That's it.

00:47:15.840 There's no discussion.

00:47:16.840 And when people would try to raise it, although nobody directly with Joe Biden, but when people

00:47:21.300 would try to raise, you know, Anita Dunn said something like, are we sure this is a

00:47:25.060 good idea?

00:47:25.680 A different pollster was like, shouldn't we, um, figure out if like, this is even a good

00:47:29.960 idea.

00:47:30.120 This is the politics of it all.

00:47:31.380 This is not whether or not he should or should not have been president.

00:47:34.020 This is about, uh, whether or not he could get reelected, which is a different level

00:47:38.020 here.

00:47:38.720 Um, they would say the decision's been made, the decision's been made.

00:47:42.540 And, and so there were, there was a small group of people running the train.

00:47:46.780 And I think that it's not a star chamber so much because they weren't like, it wasn't

00:47:51.700 like five of them in a room, uh, making these decisions, but definitely Rashetti and Donilon,

00:47:56.860 definitely Bernal and then different individuals hopping in and out, whether Jen O'Malley Dillon,

00:48:02.520 who was a deputy chief of staff and then ran the campaign, whether Anita Dunn, whether

00:48:07.060 Ron Klain or Jeff Zients, the chiefs of staff all played different roles.

00:48:11.220 Well, how about, can you follow up Jake on what you said earlier?

00:48:13.620 Because just this week, Jake Sullivan, the national security advisor was out saying, geez,

00:48:17.960 what I saw at that debate shocked me.

00:48:19.560 But you have reporting in this book that Jake Sullivan was well aware that Joe Biden was

00:48:24.820 having some serious memory problems going back years.

00:48:27.900 In December, 2022, um, the day, uh, that, um, and I'm, her name is escaping me, which is

00:48:35.280 ironically what we're talking, Brittany Greiner, the name, I'm sorry, I'm not a big WNBA fan.

00:48:39.400 The, the time that Brittany Greiner gets out, that gets out of Russian, uh, control, uh, Russian,

00:48:45.920 uh, you know, she was a prisoner in Russia.

00:48:48.740 Um, Biden is outside the Oval Office, uh, with, and Jake, Jake Sullivan, his national

00:48:55.580 security advisor and Kate Benningfield, his communications director are there and he can't

00:49:00.400 come up with their names.

00:49:01.360 This is December, 2022.

00:49:02.900 He calls Jake, Steve, Steve, and then he calls Kate Benningfield press.

00:49:08.480 And then he beckons them to come with him.

00:49:10.700 So I don't know.

00:49:12.060 Uh, I saw in that same interview that, uh, that Jake said he did, Jake Sullivan said he

00:49:15.680 didn't remember that.

00:49:17.420 Um, I can't attest to what people remember, what they don't.

00:49:20.320 I just know that that happened.

00:49:21.980 That happened.

00:49:22.760 And you also report Alex, that there was interference run by, I think this same Politburo, this cabal

00:49:28.300 against the white house residents staffers so that they would not witness what the inner

00:49:35.740 circle was witnessing with his deterioration.

00:49:38.640 Can you fill that out a bit?

00:49:39.800 Yeah, the resident staff were really stunned with how, especially the first lady's office

00:49:45.720 took over really through Bernal and Annie Tomasini.

00:49:48.440 Both of them also unusual had resident staff passes, which is not normal for aides in the

00:49:55.340 white house to be able to go like to and from they would, you know, just had certain powers

00:50:00.800 to the point that a lot of the resident staff, you know, they felt they were being kept at bay,

00:50:05.400 that they were not trusted and that they often were there just twiddling their thumbs.

00:50:10.180 They would have to go.

00:50:11.040 They often went home early.

00:50:12.520 They didn't have a lot to do.

00:50:14.240 And there was a feeling among some in the resident staff that this was about hiding his

00:50:20.280 deterioration.

00:50:21.140 And we quote one resident staff, um, you know, official that said he would just sometimes

00:50:26.620 look at you and I'm paraphrasing.

00:50:28.140 He would just sometimes look at you like he doesn't even know you, even though I was seeing

00:50:32.240 him every day, they would, um, keep somebody out of the elevator.

00:50:37.380 Uh, there was the elevator is the elevator in the white house normally manned?

00:50:40.480 Cause you seem to be reporting that they ejected that person from that post.

00:50:44.560 Yes.

00:50:45.040 They basically said your services will no longer be necessary.

00:50:48.800 And they, again, it was part of this larger pattern of, uh, where we are taking over the

00:50:54.980 residents.

00:50:55.420 Now your services are needed sometimes, but not as much as they almost always are.

00:51:01.200 But how about Jill Biden, Alex?

00:51:05.920 I mean, she was first and foremost a protector, um, and she and loyalty enforcer and she would

00:51:14.280 had tremendous, uh, control over, um, over the schedule over keeping, you know, that circle

00:51:21.280 very, very close.

00:51:22.460 And I think, um, you know, even though she would never admit that, uh, you know, that he

00:51:27.540 has any problems, I think by her very actions, you saw it on the view, but privately to, you

00:51:32.900 know, jumping in with answers, trying to help him along, guiding him, introducing.

00:51:37.120 So he remembers who they are, you know, that by her actions shows that she knows that he

00:51:42.660 needs help, that he needs someone to pick up the slack.

00:51:44.920 All right, we'll pick it up there.

00:51:46.860 We have to get into the presidential debate and what Jake's reaction was when he had that

00:51:51.520 onstage meltdown.

00:51:52.980 And what is, uh, the reaction from these guys to the announcement about Joe Biden's cancer

00:51:58.200 diagnosis on the eve of their pub date.

00:52:01.500 Stand by.

00:52:02.220 We'll be right back.

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00:53:41.720 All right, Jake, so I have been in the front row of a presidential debate in big moments.

00:53:47.020 Oh, I remember. I remember.

00:53:48.940 And one of the interesting things is always like,

00:53:52.640 what's the dynamic between the anchors on the set when you know big news is being made?

00:53:57.580 So walk us through that moment when he completely fell apart with the,

00:54:01.740 I killed Medicare, and everybody was left with their own agape moment.

00:54:08.940 Presumably your viewers and listeners know the agape reference by now.

00:54:13.360 So that front row seat was really disturbing.

00:54:20.580 And again, as you say, we have all, we all watched President Biden age.

00:54:26.500 We all watched his gaffes.

00:54:28.080 We all watched these moments that were uncomfortable and obviously

00:54:32.800 representative of a decline going on.

00:54:37.640 But there was something about that debate that was utterly shocking.

00:54:41.620 And maybe, maybe you and your listeners were not shocked.

00:54:44.060 Maybe, maybe you thought that this was going to happen and this was all,

00:54:47.980 you know, I think it was one of those shocked, but not surprised moments for us.

00:54:52.720 So he comes out and, you know, he's obviously shuffling as,

00:54:58.060 had been going on with him for years because of his degenerative spine.

00:55:03.580 And although, by the way, that was another thing that the White House wasn't being honest about.

00:55:07.060 They were saying it had to do with his,

00:55:08.980 like breaking his ankle or something in December, 2020 and not wearing the boot.

00:55:13.120 And his refusal to wear the, the, like the foot cast or support.

00:55:17.340 Not true.

00:55:17.820 Yeah, it was another lie.

00:55:18.460 Yeah, not true.

00:55:19.660 So he comes out and he, he has a cold also.

00:55:22.780 And he sounds, so even his voice, obviously you go back and listen to him in 2020,

00:55:27.020 his voice is much deeper and more and stronger.

00:55:30.320 And then, you know, he comes out, it's, it's, it's thinner, it's readier.

00:55:33.440 He obviously is coughing a lot, but there was something about that.

00:55:36.700 My first text to my, my producing team read phlegm and I saw that same word in your book

00:55:42.520 referencing what, what you were thinking.

00:55:44.420 It was phlegmy.

00:55:45.100 He was definitely very phlegmy.

00:55:46.940 So, so it was, it was a few minutes in, I mean, his first answer was not good,

00:55:52.960 but that, you know, that wasn't ultimately particularly surprising.

00:55:57.340 I think it was the second answer, the second long answer in that

00:56:00.400 economics block that we did where he just completely lost his train of thought.

00:56:06.060 Um, in such a way that he was like grasping for words and look, he has those crutches

00:56:12.920 where he starts wandering off and then he says, anyway, because he's lost his train of thought.

00:56:17.440 That's something that we've seen, but this was something else.

00:56:20.580 This was something more shocking.

00:56:22.540 And he said, then he says, we finally beat Medicare.

00:56:25.980 And I, presumably he was trying to say we finally beat COVID, but, um, it was really shocking.

00:56:32.120 Uh, also interesting at the, at the time was Trump obviously was very Trumpy during the debate.

00:56:38.480 He did his thing.

00:56:40.080 If you like it, you like it.

00:56:41.360 If you don't, you don't.

00:56:43.120 For Trump, given what was going on to his left, he was fairly restrained.

00:56:50.320 He wasn't really commenting on the self-immolation that was going on.

00:56:54.960 I think he only made one comment that night about Biden's incoherence.

00:56:59.060 He said something like, I'm not really sure what he just said, and I'm not sure that he

00:57:02.780 does either or something like that.

00:57:04.700 I'm paraphrasing, but it was shocking.

00:57:06.980 Get to the text that you sent to your control room and the correspondence between you and

00:57:10.580 Dana.

00:57:11.560 So, so we have, um, iPads cause you can't communicate, obviously, uh, talking to your control

00:57:17.580 room during a debate.

00:57:18.920 We have iPads where you can write on them.

00:57:20.580 And I recommend it if you don't have one, by the way, it's fantastic.

00:57:24.100 And, and, um, I wrote, cause I had no idea who was back there.

00:57:28.180 So I tried to keep it clean.

00:57:29.380 I wrote, holy smokes.

00:57:31.160 Now what I was thinking was, holy fuck.

00:57:33.300 I mean, it was just shocking, but I kept it clean.

00:57:36.760 Dana wrote, Dana writes to me on a piece of paper.

00:57:40.080 He just lost the election.

00:57:42.240 Um, and I, it was just, I mean, it is, I don't think this is hyperbole at all.

00:57:46.760 Uh, the worst debate in the history of presidential debates going back to 1960.

00:57:52.600 I just can't think of anything even remotely close to it.

00:57:55.560 And then you saw him immediately after you write in the book and he seemed like unaware

00:58:01.060 that something extremely problematic had just occurred.

00:58:06.800 Well, it was just, first of all, Jill helps him down from the stage.

00:58:10.720 It's like a one, it's a one step stage.

00:58:13.520 Maybe it was a little distracting cause there were weird lights or whatever, but that looked

00:58:17.460 weird too.

00:58:18.580 But they come over to the table.

00:58:21.220 Trump, Trump is long gone.

00:58:22.340 He's probably, he's probably in the air at that point.

00:58:25.240 And, um, he, they come over and they really didn't seem to have any idea that this had been

00:58:32.400 as bad as it was.

00:58:34.340 And it was very awkward.

00:58:35.860 He said something about, sorry about, sorry about my cold.

00:58:38.300 And, and I can, you like, he tried to like say something about how much Trump lies.

00:58:43.400 And then he said something like, uh, I guess, I guess we'll go see what the commentators

00:58:47.680 have to say or something like that.

00:58:49.040 And he and Jill wander off.

00:58:50.520 And it was just one of these, you know, sometimes you think like, did I just see that?

00:58:56.500 Was that, did, did I just witness this 90 minute event during it?

00:59:00.240 And also I'll just, I'll just say, um, so I'm 56.

00:59:04.500 So I'm now at the age where like, I love sleep.

00:59:08.080 Like sleep is something that when you're a kid, you hate it so much.

00:59:10.860 But when you're an adult, you're like, I can't get enough of it.

00:59:13.420 And I even thought as this debate started, why are we starting at nine?

00:59:19.000 This is so late.

00:59:21.260 Um, and then when Biden started to fump around, I thought, man, starting this at nine was really

00:59:27.520 a bad idea.

00:59:28.180 Why didn't they ask for like five?

00:59:29.480 Agreed.

00:59:30.300 We never should have agreed.

00:59:31.560 Following up on a point from earlier, Alex, because we talked about the cabinet secretaries

00:59:35.580 unnamed and we talked about the Politburo protecting him and you gave us the names.

00:59:41.200 There is a suggestion in the book, though.

00:59:42.920 It's never written explicitly that president Biden wasn't always making the calls as president.

00:59:47.780 Is that, is that what you're reporting that, that he was not in full command of the decision

00:59:52.660 making for those four years?

00:59:54.840 Well, some members of the cabinet told us that they felt that one of them put it to us

01:00:03.060 this way is because what happened is they closed ranks.

01:00:06.900 They had the cabinet members come in and brief senior staff and then they, and then the senior

01:00:12.260 staff would brief the president.

01:00:13.700 And one member of the cabinet put it to us this way.

01:00:16.700 Yes, the president is officially making the decision, you know, putting the sign dotted line.

01:00:21.620 But if the, if the decision is framed in a certain way, is it really a decision?

01:00:27.640 And are really they the ones making the decision?

01:00:30.220 And there was a feeling that, that they were, you know, putting their hand on the scale one

01:00:36.520 way or another.

01:00:37.260 And, you know, some people also felt that this began, you know, as early as 2021 when, you

01:00:44.060 know, the Biden administration, you know, went pretty far to the left of where Joe Biden

01:00:49.320 had been for a lot of his career.

01:00:51.580 And many people attributed to that, um, to Ron Klain, who is more progressive being chief

01:00:57.420 of staff.

01:00:57.900 And they felt some people, um, including in the cabinet felt that if Biden had been 20

01:01:02.460 years younger, um, it may have been different.

01:01:05.160 One cabinet member said, you know, he's an old man.

01:01:08.040 He's got four to six hour, good hours a day.

01:01:10.780 And if that's the case, sometimes things are missed.

01:01:14.920 You know, he's not in the weeds as much.

01:01:17.460 Yeah.

01:01:17.940 And the decisions have to be made by other people.

01:01:19.880 Wait, wait, let me, let me keep going because I only have you for seven more minutes.

01:01:22.280 I know you got to, you got to date with somebody else.

01:01:24.480 Um, follow up to you on this, Alex.

01:01:27.220 So right before you guys launched your book, as you know, on Sunday night, they came out

01:01:33.000 with an announcement that he's suffering from prostate cancer.

01:01:36.180 That's metastasized to his bones.

01:01:39.000 We've had multiple doctors come out and say that has to be at least a five to seven year

01:01:43.420 run.

01:01:44.140 Some have acknowledged is a very, very small percentage who could potentially have like

01:01:49.120 that had prostate cancer that went into the bones, but extremely rare.

01:01:52.760 Anyway, what do you make of the timing of that announcement?

01:01:56.000 And do you think it's any accident that it came in between you releasing the her audio

01:02:01.320 tapes and on Axios on Saturday and you guys releasing your book today?

01:02:07.000 I can tell you, and I wrote in a story with Mark Caputo this morning that some people that

01:02:14.540 even worked in the Biden White House, um, are suspicious of the timing and are, they are

01:02:19.920 skeptical of it.

01:02:20.960 I don't want to get into skepticism.

01:02:23.180 I try to just report and not speculate.

01:02:25.300 Um, but I can tell you that, you know, some people that worked for him, um, were, uh, felt

01:02:32.100 very strange about the sudden, uh, timing of this.

01:02:37.220 And, um, you know, I'm going to continue to report it out.

01:02:41.020 It's obviously very sad.

01:02:42.500 And I also think, you know, we framed this book as a, as a tragedy of a man undone.

01:02:47.180 Um, and I think this just further shows that tragic element and also, you know, what, how

01:02:54.220 risky, uh, it was for him to run for reelection at such an old age.

01:02:59.460 Is that an oh shit moment?

01:03:01.420 Is it all an oh shit moment where you're like, oh my God, the whole book is about his health

01:03:05.980 and a coverup.

01:03:06.840 And we miss the fact that he, he's got cancer.

01:03:10.060 He's got terminal cancer.

01:03:11.400 I mean, like, like, I don't know.

01:03:12.900 Is that, do you feel like, what's your odd?

01:03:15.480 What, what, what are your, what do you think the odds are?

01:03:18.020 Because your whole book is about how he covers up about his, his health problems.

01:03:21.780 So, I mean, I mean, you're in an interesting position now as reporters who are continuing

01:03:26.240 to report on politics and whether you give credence to this story that he just found out

01:03:34.100 and he didn't know while he was the sitting president.

01:03:36.200 How are you going to, how do you handle that?

01:03:38.820 I certainly, I certainly understand the skepticism.

01:03:41.480 And I think if there's anything, this book instructs us as we should be very skeptical

01:03:46.360 and we should also demand more from our leaders when it comes to health records.

01:03:50.600 There was a moment in the book where Senator Debbie Stabenow, a Democrat of Michigan is with,

01:03:58.120 is alone with first lady Jill Biden.

01:04:00.080 This is after the debate before, but before Biden drops out.

01:04:02.880 And Senator Stabenow says something like, we don't know what's wrong with Joe Biden.

01:04:10.140 We don't know if there's a condition, but you do.

01:04:14.780 And first lady Biden doesn't answer the question.

01:04:18.160 And then later fumes about the temerity of Senator Stabenow saying that.

01:04:24.440 And I think what we've learned in the last couple of days about President Biden's health,

01:04:29.620 and obviously I know all of us wish him the best in his fight against prostate cancer.

01:04:35.500 What I think it gets at is the difficulty of hard reporting and investigative journalism

01:04:41.140 when it comes to health issues.

01:04:43.760 Observations and punditry are important and necessary,

01:04:50.800 but the deep investigation of what is going on behind the scenes

01:04:57.360 and what is going on in terms of somebody's health, that is very tough.

01:05:02.100 And as we all know, we don't have subpoena power.

01:05:04.760 We can't break into doctor's offices.

01:05:07.200 I have no reporting on when he found out about this.

01:05:11.340 All we have, all the world has, is their word.

01:05:15.400 And if you believe their word, then you believe their word.

01:05:17.640 And if you don't, you're left with your skepticism.

01:05:20.360 Yeah, there's certainly reason to doubt their word.

01:05:22.380 Question for you, Jagan, on the reportage front,

01:05:25.520 is what do you do with these cabinet secretaries

01:05:28.000 who didn't tell the truth about Biden's mental acuity,

01:05:33.420 but now have told the truth to you,

01:05:36.120 and then they want to come on your show?

01:05:38.080 Maybe some of them will run for president.

01:05:39.540 I mean, now that you know, right, that they are not honest brokers,

01:05:44.320 like you actually know, what do you do about that?

01:05:47.760 It's interesting.

01:05:49.640 I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

01:05:52.540 It has been interesting watching some of the Democrats

01:05:56.960 and, you know, who talk to us for the book

01:05:59.860 and what they say publicly versus what they say privately.

01:06:04.340 That has been interesting.

01:06:05.560 Yeah, I saw the one congresswoman who we quote in the book,

01:06:08.680 Susan Wilde, former congresswoman from Pennsylvania,

01:06:10.840 was out there tweeting something like,

01:06:13.940 fuck Andrew Yang, like we need to move forward

01:06:16.580 and focus on Trump and not Biden.

01:06:20.020 And she's quoted in the book during a meeting,

01:06:22.060 a Zoom meeting of the ranking Democrats,

01:06:25.760 saying something like,

01:06:26.820 Biden can't come to my district,

01:06:28.160 and he makes us all out to be liars.

01:06:30.100 And it's just when it was pointed out to her

01:06:33.260 that what she said, according to the book,

01:06:36.620 was very different than what she was saying now,

01:06:39.920 she, at least to her credit, fessed up to it.

01:06:42.560 She didn't deny it.

01:06:43.600 But it is weird watching the dance between people

01:06:47.620 who know how bad it was and are just keeping quiet

01:06:51.580 or trying to change the subject

01:06:53.500 and those who know how bad it was

01:06:55.380 and are lying to the public.

01:06:57.960 Well, I mean, one of them is Hakeem Jeffries,

01:07:01.500 who you point out in the book.

01:07:02.920 He knew he was there when Biden was having

01:07:06.140 one of his many problems.

01:07:10.380 And now he's out there like,

01:07:12.900 we're moving forward.

01:07:14.260 We're moving forward.

01:07:15.000 Chuck Schumer, too.

01:07:15.660 Like, we're moving forward.

01:07:16.680 They knew Chuck Schumer's all over your book

01:07:18.820 with big meetings where he went to Joe Biden,

01:07:23.000 which was previously reported,

01:07:24.180 but a lot of details about him saying,

01:07:26.600 you're not being told the truth.

01:07:27.980 You've got to get out.

01:07:28.720 You're going to lose.

01:07:29.480 You're going to bring us all down.

01:07:30.520 And now he's like, forward, moving forward.

01:07:32.020 Anyway, OK, let me keep going

01:07:33.300 because there's two other things

01:07:33.940 I want to ask you about.

01:07:35.760 Jake, we had, we played a soundbite

01:07:37.980 from Mark Halperin's show

01:07:39.220 where he interviewed a guy named Rufus Gifford,

01:07:42.560 who is the campaign finance chair

01:07:44.920 for Joe Biden's campaign.

01:07:46.360 And he was at the now infamous Clooney fundraiser

01:07:49.120 for Biden in June of 24.

01:07:51.460 And he took issue with your reporting.

01:07:54.680 We played the audience's soundbite.

01:07:55.800 I won't waste time on it now.

01:07:56.720 But he says it didn't happen, what you report.

01:08:00.200 Clooney did not walk in there.

01:08:01.940 Sorry, Biden did not walk in there

01:08:03.600 and go sort of through a bunch of people saying,

01:08:06.020 nice to see you.

01:08:07.120 Nice to see you.

01:08:07.540 Thanks for being here.

01:08:08.200 Thanks for being here.

01:08:08.920 He said that was impossible

01:08:10.140 because he got there.

01:08:12.820 He was announced by his handler.

01:08:15.500 And immediately the handler said,

01:08:17.820 you know, George Clooney,

01:08:19.460 you know, Julia Roberts.

01:08:20.680 He said, nice to meet you and moved on.

01:08:22.120 And he poured cold water on that story of your book.

01:08:25.260 Care to respond?

01:08:26.980 We're pretty confident about the sourcing

01:08:28.880 and the event as described.

01:08:31.700 And, you know, we just went through as a country

01:08:36.080 years and years of the Biden people lying and denying.

01:08:41.440 And I'm not particularly interested

01:08:43.700 in pretending any of it is credible.

01:08:47.100 We are very sure of our story.

01:08:48.900 It wasn't just in our book.

01:08:49.880 It was thoroughly fact-checked in The New Yorker

01:08:52.900 who did an excerpt of it.

01:08:55.660 And we stand by it.

01:08:57.120 And I don't really care what Rufus says.

01:09:00.620 And now, do you care what the ladies of the view say?

01:09:03.780 Because that's kind of in your,

01:09:06.420 not your personally,

01:09:07.600 but it's in the left-wing ecosphere.

01:09:09.580 And they are having a very negative reaction,

01:09:12.440 I'm sorry to tell you,

01:09:13.700 to Original Sin.

01:09:14.900 They don't like your book, guys.

01:09:16.660 And they don't appreciate that it's being published now.

01:09:19.460 And I wonder if-

01:09:20.460 Have they read it?

01:09:22.120 Have they had you on?

01:09:23.400 Have they invited you to come on to discuss it?

01:09:25.520 They have not.

01:09:26.940 They have, we have gone to them many number of times

01:09:29.480 and said, we would love to come on the show to discuss.

01:09:32.220 They obviously were where President and First Lady Biden

01:09:35.800 went for their pre-bottle of the book.

01:09:38.140 And we thought it would only be fair to have us on.

01:09:43.480 But the view, and for that matter, Fox News,

01:09:47.140 seems to enjoy using our scoops,

01:09:50.480 talking about everything we learned

01:09:52.060 in the months of investigative journalism

01:09:53.660 and what we're revealing in this book.

01:09:55.740 But they're declining to have us on to discuss it,

01:09:58.800 which is regrettable

01:09:59.900 because I think this is an important thing

01:10:02.280 for people to come to terms with

01:10:04.700 when it comes to the view

01:10:06.200 or to explore in terms of the depth

01:10:08.600 of what we, Alex and I, have been able to find out

01:10:10.360 in terms of Fox News.

01:10:12.200 I will say that there is clearly a contingent

01:10:16.100 of people on the left

01:10:17.320 who want to bury their head in the sand on this issue

01:10:21.520 and pretend it didn't happen

01:10:22.880 and pretend that it's not part of the reason

01:10:27.880 why Donald Trump and the Republicans

01:10:29.880 control the White House and the House and the Senate

01:10:31.520 and why Democratic poll numbers are in the toilet.

01:10:35.200 I think that is part of why Democrats are where they are,

01:10:39.860 this gaslighting.

01:10:41.020 Mm-hmm.

01:10:42.040 There was a comment by David Axelrod

01:10:43.520 that we should set aside the discussion of your book

01:10:46.880 and the allegations in it

01:10:48.180 because of the diagnosis news.

01:10:51.080 Jake, do you disagree with David Axelrod?

01:10:54.900 Well, if I didn't, I don't think I'd be here.

01:10:57.360 I mean, I think what happened to the country-

01:10:59.820 I'm pleased to hear you do.

01:11:01.180 I think we need to be discussing this.

01:11:04.280 I think, obviously, we have sympathy for President Biden,

01:11:08.220 both in terms of the prostate cancer

01:11:09.640 and in terms of whatever other health issue he is grappling with.

01:11:14.360 And we talked to many neurologists who spent-

01:11:17.200 You talk about how you were on a text chain with your producers

01:11:20.080 the night of the debate.

01:11:21.220 We talked to one of the top neurologists in the world

01:11:23.860 who is on a text chain with a number of other top neurologists,

01:11:29.060 and they spent much of 2024

01:11:30.700 trying to figure out what was wrong with Joe Biden,

01:11:33.840 whether it's Lewy body dementia or Parkinson's

01:11:37.500 or something Parkinsonian, and they don't know.

01:11:39.680 Then they're not qualified to say from a distance.

01:11:41.400 But it's a serious question.

01:11:43.300 And the larger issue of transparency and groupthink,

01:11:46.880 questions for the Democratic Party and the public and the news media,

01:11:50.840 these are all really important conversations to have.

01:11:53.100 I don't think that our story, I don't think that our book is mean.

01:11:56.900 I think it is just accurate and clear-eyed.

01:11:58.960 And I think this is a conversation the country needs to have,

01:12:01.280 not just about President Biden, but about all presidents.

01:12:04.040 It's like I tell my kids.

01:12:06.380 It is not mean to say something that is true,

01:12:11.020 but not necessarily complimentary.

01:12:13.240 I mean, if it's true and you are not saying it

01:12:15.960 with the intention to hurt somebody, it's not, quote, mean.

01:12:19.460 They're not going to get away with that.

01:12:20.860 Sorry, Alex, you wanted to weigh in.

01:12:22.120 Go ahead.

01:12:23.400 I actually just wanted to say one more thing

01:12:26.580 about the media coverage and this question,

01:12:29.180 which is, you know, Jake, when Jake came to me with this idea,

01:12:34.120 you know, on every beat, there are some suck-ups,

01:12:36.900 there are some people that are lazy.

01:12:38.760 But I never felt that Jake, even if he fell short on the age issue,

01:12:43.140 I never felt he carried the water for the Biden people.

01:12:45.720 And I hope your listeners who may be skeptical of Jake,

01:12:49.120 at least, like, give the book a chance.

01:12:50.520 Yes, I don't think we've convinced them that Jake did not run cover for Joe Biden.

01:12:55.520 I'm going to be honest.

01:12:56.360 But I do think we may have convinced them to buy the book,

01:12:58.880 which is the purpose of your visit here.

01:13:00.840 And that's fine.

01:13:01.420 I mean, it's a big media landscape.

01:13:03.240 They don't have to watch the lead.

01:13:04.820 They can take it for what it's worth.

01:13:07.080 I do want to ask you one question about Naomi Biden before I let you go, guys.

01:13:09.820 She weighed in.

01:13:10.420 This is the president's, former president's granddaughter.

01:13:13.120 She called it a silly book.

01:13:14.160 She says it's a political fairy smut.

01:13:17.620 It is political fairy smut for the permanent professional chattering class.

01:13:21.720 A bunch of unoriginal, uninspired lies written by irresponsible,

01:13:24.660 self-promoting journalists out to make a quick buck,

01:13:27.680 relying on unnamed anonymous sources, pushing a self-serving false narrative.

01:13:32.820 Alex, care to take that on?

01:13:34.300 I mean, I think the book very much shows the Biden family is very tight knit,

01:13:41.920 and I wasn't surprised to see it.

01:13:44.340 That being said, I think we stand completely behind our reporting.

01:13:48.740 All right.

01:13:49.360 And, Jake, I'll close with this.

01:13:50.840 You've gotten so much blowback in the days that led up to today.

01:13:55.940 Had to hire the crisis PR agent.

01:13:58.420 How are you feeling so far?

01:14:00.820 All right, whatever.

01:14:01.620 But you've gotten a lot of blowback.

01:14:02.960 So how are you feeling today?

01:14:05.040 Was it worth it?

01:14:05.780 I just want to – yeah, telling the truth is always worth it.

01:14:09.920 We hired Risa Heller because she's a political bro, and months ago we did this.

01:14:14.840 Well, you had a PR agent through your publisher.

01:14:18.460 Yeah, and they're great, but this is a very controversial political book,

01:14:23.200 and we felt like it needed the eyes of a smart political team

01:14:27.300 in addition to the great publicists at Penguin.

01:14:29.960 I get it, but you're not denying that you've had massive blowback, are you?

01:14:33.640 I mean, you've been under attack for days now.

01:14:36.980 Oh, the left and the right are mad.

01:14:39.700 Exactly.

01:14:39.920 The left is like, why are you covering this?

01:14:43.360 You should be covering Trump.

01:14:44.660 Your book is full of lies, and the right is doing what you illustrated earlier with your tough questions.

01:14:52.260 I will say this.

01:14:54.100 People were shocked on June 27, 2024, because there was to a degree a cover-up of how bad his decline had been.

01:15:03.240 So even if, and not if, even though many folks, including you, were covering this,

01:15:12.340 it still was shocking what people saw on June 27.

01:15:16.460 And the only other point I'll say is I'm not disagreeing with the fact that conservatives were right on this

01:15:25.240 and that people in the legacy media, including myself, should have been paying closer attention and more attention.

01:15:31.460 I'm granting all of that.

01:15:33.320 But the reason why I think there is interest in this book is because people want to know more

01:15:40.060 beyond what they saw in front of the camera.

01:15:43.080 They want to know how this happened, and I think that is what we provide

01:15:47.660 through this deeply sourced, unflinching account of what really went on behind the scenes.

01:15:53.880 I got to steal one more minute because I just want to explain to the audience, Jake,

01:15:57.980 how Jake Tapper and Megyn Kelly became friends,

01:16:01.480 because it's a very unlikely friendship in the eyes of a lot of people.

01:16:05.640 But we've both been in media for a long time.

01:16:09.020 We were at Fox and CNN together.

01:16:11.560 We were friends even before you went to CNN.

01:16:13.740 I remember texting with you about the decision when you were leaving ABC.

01:16:17.080 Where would you go?

01:16:18.120 What did you want to do?

01:16:19.820 We've bonded over news and its insanity.

01:16:22.660 We've bonded over the Philadelphia Eagles and your shared love with my husband, Doug,

01:16:27.540 of that very complicated football team.

01:16:30.560 And I just I want people to understand, like, notwithstanding that we have political differences

01:16:34.420 and we have differences in the way we see news stories.

01:16:36.820 Like, there's still room for mutual respect and kindness and friendship.

01:16:41.900 And I think that's to our credit.

01:16:43.540 I consider you a friend.

01:16:47.340 I don't necessarily agree with everything you do or say, but that doesn't really matter.

01:16:52.200 And I think it's interesting what you've done and impressive what you've built since that, you know,

01:17:01.100 you know what I think about what happened to you at NBC.

01:17:04.000 It's flattering to you and not to them.

01:17:07.480 But, yeah.

01:17:08.400 And look, I mean, one of the things that you've said to me or said about me is that I might not always succeed,

01:17:15.000 but I try to be fair.

01:17:16.420 And I am trying to be fair.

01:17:17.780 And I am not infallible.

01:17:19.640 And I have said I wish I had covered things differently.

01:17:22.860 There's a million things I wish I'd covered differently.

01:17:24.960 This is obviously significant, more significant.

01:17:27.260 I wrote a book about it with Alex.

01:17:28.480 I mean, like, I think this is a big deal, but this book isn't me trying to do anything other than what happened.

01:17:36.500 We need to know what happened.

01:17:38.300 And if somebody had written this book, I would have bought it and I would have interviewed them, but they hadn't.

01:17:44.320 And Alex and I got to work knowing that there would be a huge blowback both from the right and from the left.

01:17:52.760 And it was just important for us to tell the story of what happened.

01:17:56.680 Well, listen, I appreciate it because I did learn a lot.

01:18:01.260 And I did find the debate absolutely shocking, though, as I say, not entirely surprising, right?

01:18:05.820 It's like the extent to which he had deteriorated was shocking.

01:18:11.320 And by the way, before you go, thank you for all you do for our veterans as well.

01:18:15.180 Guys, good luck with it.

01:18:16.240 I'm sure it's going to be a big success.

01:18:18.080 It is called Original Sin, President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again.

01:18:24.840 And it is available right now.

01:18:26.600 All the best to you both.

01:18:28.220 Thanks, Megan.

01:18:28.940 Appreciate it.

01:18:29.800 Thanks.

01:18:30.820 See you soon.

01:18:31.920 Up next, Batya Unger-Sargon is here.

01:18:34.420 She's been watching, and she'll react to our exchange.

01:18:37.900 Don't go away.

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01:20:06.920 Our friend Batya Angersargan is here now.

01:20:13.600 She's a free press columnist and author of the book Second Class, How the Elites Betrayed

01:20:19.460 America's Working Men and Women.

01:20:21.260 Batya, last week I interviewed your hero, Sean O'Brien of the Teamsters.

01:20:26.940 I thought of you.

01:20:28.140 He was just as awesome as you believe he is.

01:20:30.880 And today, I don't think these were your heroes, but it was an interesting hour and a half.

01:20:36.160 Your thoughts?

01:20:37.140 Well, first of all, you were heroic.

01:20:38.700 That interview was a masterclass in how to be both fair but also vigorous and representing

01:20:45.120 your audience in the pursuit of truth.

01:20:47.760 So, Megan, huge kudos.

01:20:49.660 I enjoyed every minute of it.

01:20:51.200 It was just truly so inspiring.

01:20:53.680 And as you always do, a masterclass in real journalism, a few things really stood out to

01:20:58.720 me.

01:20:59.060 The first being that he acknowledged that conservative media had gotten this right, that

01:21:06.260 conservatives across the country, Republicans, realized this.

01:21:10.180 In fact, a lot of Democrats realized this.

01:21:13.000 My question that was left unanswered was, OK, so what are you going to do going forward to

01:21:20.180 increase your humility a little bit vis-a-vis conservatives and Republicans who got this

01:21:25.620 right?

01:21:26.460 Why did they get it right?

01:21:27.940 I think we know the answer to that.

01:21:29.740 Right.

01:21:30.400 Exactly.

01:21:31.400 Right.

01:21:31.960 You know, he's talking about bringing humility to that moment with Laura Trump.

01:21:34.980 But that moment was, as you pointed out, Megan, fueled by contempt for how conservatives

01:21:41.140 and Republicans see the world.

01:21:43.820 And that question, really, he could not answer you, Megan, which is he admits that he should

01:21:48.740 have done a better job at the time.

01:21:50.260 OK, why didn't you?

01:21:52.500 And of course, Megan, the answer is very clear, because the interests of the legacy media and

01:21:57.480 the interests of the Democratic Party in covering this up were one and the same.

01:22:01.960 The mainstream media gaslit the American people because they didn't want Donald Trump to win.

01:22:07.780 They have chosen a side.

01:22:09.540 And I think that this is such an important point going forward, because in a way, Joe Biden

01:22:14.880 is really being scapegoated here.

01:22:17.020 The reason that Jake Tapper got the access now was because all of the people who did the

01:22:23.040 covering up were certain that he, like the mainstream media, is still on the side of the

01:22:28.860 Democratic Party.

01:22:29.800 And so it is in their interest to act like all of the crimes were at Joe Biden's feet and

01:22:35.600 his little coterie.

01:22:37.000 And if we just put all of the crime there, we can move forward.

01:22:40.860 And it's a way, really, Megan, of hiding the fact that the Democrats have actually nothing

01:22:46.160 to offer the American people going forward in terms of a platform.

01:22:49.660 So if they can only scapegoat Joe Biden enough, maybe nobody will notice.

01:22:54.340 It's a bit of like a laundering of what really went down, right?

01:22:58.580 It's like, had we known, we definitely would have done something.

01:23:02.420 But this cabal around him was hiding it.

01:23:04.880 But there's a little truth in that story, because I believe there was this cabal, this

01:23:08.860 Politburo, Mike Donilon and Steve Ricchetti, as he points out, and the others, who were

01:23:13.820 hiding the worst of the worst of it.

01:23:16.380 I do believe that.

01:23:17.480 If you read the book, you'll walk away believing that, too.

01:23:19.880 Doesn't mean we were in the dark, but they were actively working to cover up just how

01:23:25.440 bad he had gotten and to run him again.

01:23:28.360 I mean, they wanted to keep it a secret so that we would put him back in the office.

01:23:31.980 And I believe, I don't have the proof yet, but I believe he was also diagnosed with a

01:23:37.360 terminal illness, and they hid that from us, too.

01:23:40.960 Yeah, I don't think anybody could possibly believe at this point that it's an accident

01:23:46.280 that the horrifying and truly sad cancer diagnosis was discovered, you know, the day before this book

01:23:54.880 was supposed to come out.

01:23:55.940 That just beggars believe at this point.

01:23:57.900 I mean, no, no, they think we're fools.

01:24:01.280 Yeah.

01:24:01.900 And I think that the fact that they they've gotten to this place where the lies have finally

01:24:06.280 caught up with them is very significant.

01:24:09.220 And I don't want to minimize what President Biden himself did in, you know, defrauding

01:24:14.180 the American people in this way, what Jill Biden did, what that inner Cotterian cabal did.

01:24:18.820 But I struggle, Megan, to point to a single policy decision that Joe Biden made that I don't

01:24:25.620 think a president Kamala Harris would have made or President Gavin Newsom or a different

01:24:30.700 person would have made had he not run again.

01:24:33.780 And had there been an open primary, those policies he enacted that were deeply unpopular,

01:24:38.820 those are the Democratic Party's policies.

01:24:41.940 And so in a way, I think this is a bit of a distraction from that.

01:24:44.400 Of course, it's hugely criminal what happened here and worthy of discussing.

01:24:48.800 But at the end of the day, the reason that there are people who are now willing to speak

01:24:52.780 to someone like Drake Tapper is because they're hoping we won't realize the bigger problem here.

01:24:58.200 The the the news I referenced on Hakeem Jeffries, he's out there now, the Democrats

01:25:02.160 leader in the House, saying it's completely inappropriate, entirely inappropriate for

01:25:07.120 Republicans to be discussing these, quote, conspiracy theories around Joe Biden and his

01:25:12.800 cancer diagnosis in connection now with these books.

01:25:17.380 And, you know, given the news that that he has cancer, this is totally inappropriate.

01:25:21.300 These are conspiracy theories that guy knew he knew.

01:25:24.800 And the book points out.

01:25:25.920 Here's just one example from Chapter 11.

01:25:27.680 Now that we're liberty to discuss the contents of the book, there was a meeting with President

01:25:32.820 Biden on Ukraine and House and Senate Democrats and some GOPers January 17th, 2024.

01:25:39.720 And let's see.

01:25:41.740 Hold on.

01:25:43.140 Let's see.

01:25:44.080 He stumbled over words.

01:25:45.140 He started sentences, then stopped abruptly.

01:25:46.880 He trailed off months later when the Wall Street Journal reporters began hearing that the official

01:25:51.000 readout of what happened at the meeting did not reflect reality.

01:25:54.140 The Biden White House circled the wagons and enlisted allies to push the narrative that

01:25:58.660 in the meeting, Biden was, quote, incredibly strong, forceful and decisive as leader Hakeem

01:26:03.080 Jeffries insisted.

01:26:04.880 After reading Jeffries, quote, a House Democrat who had been at the meeting responded, quote,

01:26:08.440 that's not true.

01:26:09.440 A second House Democrat who was also there, quote, it was a disaster.

01:26:12.740 It was a shit show.

01:26:14.500 One unnamed senior administration official.

01:26:16.220 I can just never forgive this guy.

01:26:18.000 Now this guy's running out there trying to tell us to shut up and stop talking about any

01:26:22.520 of this, including the cancer diagnosis or were conspiratorial ghouls.

01:26:27.420 Yeah, I mean, obviously this is insanity, right?

01:26:30.760 It's good to know what happened.

01:26:33.140 It's good to know who lied and who is still lying and who is still carrying water for Joe

01:26:38.580 Biden.

01:26:39.020 But to me, Megan, the people who are now willing to come out against Joe Biden, kind

01:26:45.900 of like George Clooney, who when this became undeniable to the American people, only then

01:26:52.000 was he willing to admit what the rest of America had already seen with their own eyes.

01:26:56.980 Those people who are now coming out against Joe Biden, now that he has no power, like to

01:27:03.060 me, there's something about that that is also deeply disturbing because, of course, the reason

01:27:08.880 they're doing it now is it's a power grab, right?

01:27:11.780 They want power back.

01:27:13.260 Jake Tapper wants us now to trust him again on his show because he's willing to talk about

01:27:20.000 somebody who can no longer hurt him for telling the truth about him, right?

01:27:24.220 Biden is down and out.

01:27:26.220 He has cancer.

01:27:27.720 He is no longer a threat to anybody in power in the Democratic Party.

01:27:31.580 That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be talking about what went down there.

01:27:35.460 But what it does mean is the people speaking the loudest now about everything that happened.

01:27:40.940 Ask yourselves why they're willing to do that now.

01:27:43.480 And it's because they're trying to get trust back from the American people by now telling

01:27:48.960 the truth about someone who can no longer hurt them for doing so.

01:27:51.620 But they will never reevaluate, for example, how they talk about Donald Trump.

01:27:55.980 And that is very upsetting because, of course, the people who don't want to talk in this negative

01:28:01.840 way constantly about Donald Trump are the people who knew the truth about Joe Biden and were willing

01:28:05.660 to admit it.

01:28:06.220 Who could see it and had no problem admitting it.

01:28:09.340 They could see it, too.

01:28:10.640 But they did have a problem admitting it.

01:28:12.300 I do want to tell you this one thing.

01:28:13.760 On the George Clooney delay from between the time he saw an infirm Biden at that fundraiser

01:28:20.000 and then not publishing that op-ed in The New York Times until weeks later, nearly a month

01:28:24.100 later, they write that George had compartmentalized his encounter with the president at that L.A.

01:28:31.500 fundraiser, chalking it up to the president's 81 spins around the sun and the long fucking

01:28:37.300 trip from Italy.

01:28:38.160 This is obviously straight from Clooney.

01:28:40.300 That's my own speculation, even if Biden had flown in on Air Force One.

01:28:44.240 But then the debate had confirmed all the fears he had shoved aside those that he had

01:28:49.860 compartmentalized, Bhatia.

01:28:52.540 And yet the compartment opened up and the compartments began speaking to one another.

01:28:57.640 And then George Clooney to the rescue with his op-ed in July.

01:29:02.000 It's amazing.

01:29:04.300 I mean, Clooney really emerges from this as one of the chief villains, along with President

01:29:08.440 Obama.

01:29:09.840 He knew.

01:29:11.260 He knew and didn't tell until everybody else knew.

01:29:14.340 That moment where George Clooney, we assume, or somebody told Tapper and Thompson that George

01:29:22.620 Clooney had not recognized Joe Biden at the fundraiser.

01:29:25.840 And then, of course, on Mark Halperin's show, as you pointed out, there was another version

01:29:30.140 of that story told.

01:29:31.560 You know, it's possible that both versions are true, Megan, because it's possible that what

01:29:35.860 happened is, is George Clooney just did not get the reception that he felt he was owed

01:29:41.920 and interpreted that as Joe Biden not recognizing who he was.

01:29:45.920 Right.

01:29:46.420 You know, the absolute arrogance here that he should be the one to decide the future of

01:29:52.100 the Democratic Party, him attempting to get credit for basically stabbing Biden in the

01:29:58.740 back after he could no longer hide what he had access to, what he knew because he was

01:30:04.840 so wealthy and such an elite.

01:30:06.600 I mean, this to me really was the cherry on the cake here.

01:30:10.660 And now, again, laundering his trying to launder his reputation for what purpose to get power

01:30:18.100 back?

01:30:18.720 That's what this he knows.

01:30:20.240 Clooney knows he's vulnerable.

01:30:21.440 That's that's my belief is he definitely talked to Tapper.

01:30:24.220 Tapper interviewed him about his show on Broadway.

01:30:27.760 And so they definitely we know that they've spoken.

01:30:31.000 And I don't know that they've spoken about this, but it certainly seems like they have.

01:30:34.620 And that's his that clearly I feel like we've now been given George's defense to not coming

01:30:39.100 up.

01:30:39.440 I compartmentalized it was like hidden trauma.

01:30:43.120 Maybe he did some like psychedelics that brought out what the trauma of what happened at that

01:30:48.340 fundraiser.

01:30:48.900 Oh, no, wait.

01:30:49.580 It was the debate that ruined his electoral chances.

01:30:53.240 There was no worse actor.

01:30:55.480 Whatever your feelings about Tapper, no worse actor in covering up the Biden dementia than

01:31:01.620 Joe Scarborough.

01:31:03.220 Number one.

01:31:04.460 There were plenty of people at CNN.

01:31:05.680 Oliver Darcy.

01:31:06.320 Brian Stelter, Chris Eliza.

01:31:08.700 Believe me, I've been neck deep in all of their sins in preparation for this interview.

01:31:13.580 But Scarborough blew them all out of the water with his this is the best Joe Biden ever, ever

01:31:18.600 roll the tape.

01:31:19.840 Well, guess what?

01:31:20.580 He went on Mark Halpern's show next up part of the MK Media Network.

01:31:23.780 It drops later today.

01:31:25.660 We have a sneak preview for you of Mark pressing him on this issue.

01:31:30.960 This is fun.

01:31:31.480 Watch.

01:31:31.720 But looking back at that, do you say, well, it was misleading to say best by never without

01:31:37.820 caveating and say, except on the days when he's not the best Biden.

01:31:42.580 Well, but I never I never saw those days.

01:31:45.400 Personally, you did.

01:31:46.240 You did because you saw him address a dead congresswoman and you saw him in South Carolina.

01:31:50.260 A dead congresswoman.

01:31:51.040 Yeah.

01:31:51.660 Yeah.

01:31:51.920 Well, I mean, I can show you the RNC clip reels.

01:31:55.500 There were plenty of days in public when he when he was not the best Biden ever.

01:31:59.580 And of course, he stumbled and he stumbled and he stumbled and bumbled around, Mark.

01:32:04.000 I mean, yeah, he he certainly did.

01:32:06.340 Donald Trump did.

01:32:07.440 Other politicians did.

01:32:08.880 Based on what I saw with Biden, based on the time that I spent with Biden, based on the

01:32:14.520 hundreds of hours that I talked to people who talked to Biden and people that worked

01:32:19.200 with Biden and and were with him day in and day out.

01:32:23.900 Good friends that I know that I that I trusted before Biden was president, that I trust now

01:32:29.220 that Biden's not president.

01:32:30.320 I mean, put in the proper context, I'm just not going to freak out and melt down on the

01:32:34.580 on on one or two clips here or there.

01:32:38.400 That's a lie.

01:32:39.620 Every word of that is a lie.

01:32:42.840 And he's still lying, Batya.

01:32:44.760 Yeah, I think the thing that is most important to keep in mind is that none of this would

01:32:50.600 have been possible if we had a functioning media that had respect for the American people.

01:32:57.160 It is their utter contempt for anyone who doesn't vote for their chosen people that allowed this

01:33:05.280 to happen, because as you pointed out, Megan, again and again, you had this story.

01:33:11.640 You were showing the clips.

01:33:13.760 Anybody listening to your program or any conservative media was exposed to this so

01:33:20.160 that even Democratic voters understood that he was too old.

01:33:25.680 And it is their utter contempt for Republicans, for people who vote for Trump, for working class

01:33:32.360 people, for the normies of this country who are looking at this, looking at the footage

01:33:37.620 and saying this is not OK, that allowed this to happen.

01:33:42.140 And so what I want to know is, what are you in the media going to do to correct the character

01:33:49.540 defect that has allowed you to think you are so much better and so much more important

01:33:55.500 than average working class Americans that you can tell them not to believe what they're

01:34:01.020 seeing with their own eyes?

01:34:02.540 And of course, Megan, this all has to do with the class divide and the fact that journalists

01:34:07.340 are part of the elites, that the vast majority of American journalists are in the top 10%.

01:34:13.200 These are people who have degrees from elite institutions, which actually make them much worse at their job

01:34:20.660 because they think they are so much smarter and so much better and so much more educated than average people.

01:34:28.380 The people telling the great American story absolutely hate the American people.

01:34:34.940 That is the only way you end up in a situation like this, Megan.

01:34:39.620 Well, this gets to really the heart of the issue because I don't forgive any one of those Biden aides

01:34:47.340 for covering this story up and lying and misleading.

01:34:50.660 But I'm also not shocked.

01:34:53.400 I mean, politicians lie.

01:34:55.520 The circles around them lie.

01:34:57.560 It's happened since the dawn of time.

01:35:00.460 But it is the press's job to try to expose those lies.

01:35:04.920 It is our reason for being to press those who are in power to get to the truth.

01:35:12.500 And the more blowback you get, the more you generally know you're right over the target.

01:35:16.520 And the book actually has a story of some unnamed female reporter who got her cage rattled pretty

01:35:22.440 significantly by the White House as she was about to come out with an article on the mental acuity.

01:35:27.660 Alex Thompson got brushed back from the White House, too.

01:35:30.560 There's a story about the James Rosen moment at that presser where Biden showed up at the White

01:35:35.080 House briefing room and James asked him directly, people don't believe you can do this job with

01:35:40.560 respect. What are they what are they getting wrong and how Jill Biden freaked out after it and yelled

01:35:47.860 at the staff? Why didn't somebody stop him? Why didn't somebody interrupt like they were going to

01:35:51.680 try to interrupt the report in the middle of his question? Ridiculous. So whatever, that's what

01:35:56.260 they do. But the press's job is to test these claims and to make sure we're not being spun and that

01:36:03.500 were not part of the lying conspiracy. You know, Watergate was a group of officials lying to us,

01:36:11.920 doing bad things and then lying to us about what they did. And the reason we know that it happened

01:36:16.120 is because you had a press corps that wanted to investigate Republicans and did. But we're just

01:36:22.960 missing part two right now, at least in the so-called legacy press. And that's why people are having such a

01:36:29.280 difficult time with his book, at least in so far as Jake is one of the authors, because they're like,

01:36:32.760 you can't investigate yourself. And the book without the chapter that has his mea culpa

01:36:38.700 isn't persuasive to people. And I think beyond that, Megan, it's not like the press doesn't know how to do

01:36:49.440 it when there's a Republican president in office. Yeah. And I think that is what is so upsetting to so

01:36:57.540 many Americans is we see you guys do this every single day. If there is a Republican in office,

01:37:05.420 suddenly you remember how to do good journalism. Suddenly you remember that you should not give the

01:37:11.280 benefit of the doubt to people with power, that it is your job to represent the American people.

01:37:16.420 Of course, they go too far. Right. I mean, their their their attacks on the Trump administration

01:37:20.340 are completely in excess of what I think average Americans would think are appropriate.

01:37:24.280 But it's just become so clear that the vast majority of the legacy mainstream media are in

01:37:31.440 the can for one of the political parties and yet want the respect of being the fourth estate

01:37:38.380 holding power to account when actually what they're doing is attacking Republicans because it is in their

01:37:45.660 interests to do that because they are on the side of the Democrats. And the reason they're on the side of

01:37:50.940 the Democrats is not just because of liberalism, but because Democrats represent the elites and they

01:37:56.040 are part of the elites. And that really, I think, is the take home message here.

01:38:02.020 There there was an exchange on Jake's show yesterday about the about the former president's

01:38:07.980 diagnosis. And just to your question about whether there'll be a new leaf turned over. And the discussion

01:38:15.100 was all about how hard the Bidens have had it, what a difficult life he's had, you know, suffered a lot

01:38:20.360 of tragedy and so on. There was not deep probing. There was no probing into the timing of the

01:38:26.220 announcement, even though it's Jake's book that was coming out the next day. I just don't think there's

01:38:32.000 any desire from anyone, anyone on CNN, never mind MSNBC or any of these so-called mainstream outlets.

01:38:38.980 I mean, one of the places they dropped an excerpt of this book was the Atlantic. You'd be hard

01:38:44.340 pressed to find an online publication that ran more cover for the Biden dementia story than the

01:38:51.560 Atlantic. They're absolutely disgusting. They didn't see a Biden dementia story that they didn't

01:38:57.740 try to shit all over and run cover for. The whole thing is just this messy cabal that will not change

01:39:03.520 and it will not learn. And my own feeling about it at this point is like, I, I don't know if I even

01:39:09.960 want it to like, we do need a robust press. There weren't, they weren't wrong that like, I do use

01:39:15.400 reporting. I see in the New York times from time to time, you know, it's not all untrustworthy if it's

01:39:20.340 not political. Um, but I, I kind of enjoy making fun of them and necessity being the mother of all

01:39:28.080 invention. We've created a whole new lane, Batia, where we can have honest discussion. So it's not as

01:39:33.320 important that they change. A hundred percent. And I think at the end of the day, this book,

01:39:39.140 even though I believe that, you know, Alex Thompson and Jake Tapper did their best to report what people

01:39:43.720 told them 200 sources, it's a good number. Those sources spoke to them because the democratic party

01:39:49.600 is trying to launder itself right now by scapegoating Joe Biden. When the problem is so

01:39:54.560 much deeper, it's that average Americans cannot trust the mainstream media to be honest.

01:39:59.560 Yeah. And they know it. They know it. That's why our lane is doing so well. You're a star. Thank you

01:40:07.720 so much for playing today. It's a pleasure seeing you. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you for everything

01:40:12.660 you do. I'll see you soon, Batia. I want to give you some of the highlights of this book that we

01:40:16.860 didn't get to. Um, they weren't necessary to be discussed with the authors, but there is some

01:40:21.420 interesting stuff in here. So I'm going to give you some juicy nuggets. Stand by. We'll be right back.

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01:42:51.900 I just wanted to give you some of the highlights of this book, Original Sin. And maybe you'll buy it,

01:43:01.880 maybe you won't, but I want to give you a couple of the highlights because I did find them very

01:43:04.980 telling. And what was so satisfying about it for me and reading it was so many of the stories that

01:43:10.920 you and I have been discussing for years now, right? Like we knew, like I said to them about the

01:43:16.060 jump cuts in those Biden videos. Like you knew, you knew. It was like, do we have that, Deb?

01:43:20.720 We're going to, we're going to show you the example. And it's been confirmed in this book

01:43:25.700 that they had to videotape him so many times from so many different camera angles and then try to

01:43:30.480 splice it together because he couldn't spit out two sentences. Do we have it? Let's watch.

01:43:34.480 Donald Trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then he hadn't shown up for debate. Now he's

01:43:39.240 acting like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice.

01:43:44.100 So let's pick the dates, Donald. I hear you're free on Wednesdays.

01:43:48.260 Yeah. So that's, we're not surprised, but it is confirmed in this book that that's what he was,

01:43:55.260 that's what they were doing. They were trying to get enough cuts of him that they could make it

01:43:58.860 usable. And sometimes it didn't work. Sometimes it did. And then they would cringe when they saw

01:44:03.780 people like us discussing how it was obvious. They were really hoping they could pull the wool

01:44:07.900 over. There was this discussion with TJ Ducklow. It's SOT 6. It's from September, 2020. We played

01:44:18.220 this. This is back when we were just babies, the show. And we talked about it where he was a deputy

01:44:24.380 campaign or deputy press secretary for the Biden campaign. And Brett Baer got in his grill about

01:44:31.980 whether Biden was using a teleprompter during campaign events. Watch.

01:44:36.360 Has Joe Biden ever used a teleprompter during local interviews or to answer Q&A with supporters?

01:44:42.660 Brett, we're not going to engage. This is, this is straight from the Trump campaign.

01:44:46.060 But yeah, they're using it.

01:44:47.140 And what it does, and what it does, Brett, is it's trying to distract the American people.

01:44:50.880 I'm just.

01:44:51.320 Brett, they talk about it every day because they don't have a coherent argument for why Donald Trump

01:44:55.380 deserves reelection.

01:44:56.400 But you can't answer the question.

01:44:58.060 Brett, I am not going to allow a Trump campaign to funnel their questions through Fox News and get

01:45:02.980 me to respond to that.

01:45:04.740 It was true. He was using a teleprompter both at campaign events and to deal, even at private

01:45:13.220 fundraisers, some of which if he had to do online, he would use a prompter. And if he did it in person,

01:45:18.960 the use of no cards. And they actually reported that they would

01:45:22.140 write down the Q's and the A's. President Biden would have both. And then the donors at these

01:45:29.360 donor events would be given the pre-written Q's from the Biden team. It was just a question of like,

01:45:35.920 who would get which one? But no one came up with their own question.

01:45:39.640 Nothing would get asked that hadn't been pre-screened and come up with by Biden's staff.

01:45:45.220 We talked a little bit with the guys about how they were cleansing the White House of as many

01:45:50.400 resident staffers as they could so that they couldn't see Biden in the elevator and elsewhere.

01:45:55.000 They report that one senior White House aide left, quit because this person didn't think Biden should

01:46:01.520 run again, confessed that, quote, we attempted to shield him from his own staff. So many people did

01:46:07.880 not realize the extent of the decline beginning in 2023. So this person had had enough of the cover

01:46:12.240 up, but admitted that they'd been attempting to shield everybody. The White House staff treated him

01:46:17.400 as, quote, very delicate. Many of his own aides were kept at arm's length. He met mostly with that

01:46:23.540 so-called Politburo and his top national security aides. They do indict in that way Jake Sullivan

01:46:29.520 and Antony Blinken as on the inner circle and people who knew. There were note cards handed out for all

01:46:37.340 cabinet meetings. And there, too, he increasingly relied more on cards and pre-scripted exchanges,

01:46:44.940 even when it was in private. Four cabinet secretaries told them, quote, the cabinet meetings were terrible

01:46:50.400 and at times uncomfortable. And they were from the beginning. I don't recall a great cabinet meeting

01:46:55.660 in terms of his presence. They were so scripted. A second cabinet secretary told them, I hated the

01:47:01.240 scripts for these meetings. You want people to tell you the truth and have a real dialogue? Those

01:47:05.960 meetings were not that. David Axelrod, when he came out at one point and made a comment, you may

01:47:11.060 remember this, about Joe Biden's age and whether, like, that he'd be closer to 90 than 80 by the end

01:47:16.800 of his second term. Remember that? He got his hand slapped by Chief of Staff Ron Klain. There's nobody

01:47:22.000 else, Ax. There's nobody else. He's the only one who's beaten Trump. And you hear that a lot in this

01:47:27.060 book. That's why they did the big cover-up. They thought only the master Joe Biden, who beat Trump in

01:47:32.440 2020, could beat him again. And by the way, Mike Donilon is all over this book, too. He's the one who,

01:47:39.060 at the bitter end, was not showing Biden his polls. Chuck Schumer had to go in there and tell

01:47:43.680 Biden the truth. And this guy Mike Donilon knew. In 2019, Biden was forgetting Mike Donilon's name

01:47:49.700 on an eight-day bus tour in Iowa. A guy had been with him for 30 years. And Joe could not remember

01:47:55.300 his name. He knew. Okay, going on. Back in 2020, when they were campaigning him the first time around

01:48:03.360 during COVID, they read that voters were coming out of Biden's events less likely to support him.

01:48:10.040 Precinct captains disappeared or said no thanks after attending a Biden rally. They did report,

01:48:17.280 as you heard in the interview, that the first signs were after Bo died in 2015, which I believe

01:48:21.720 that can have a way of deteriorating somebody's mental health in general. In March of 2020, March 2nd,

01:48:28.620 they refer to this time he forgot the words of the Declaration of Independence. I'm just going to read

01:48:32.680 you what he actually said. It's on tape, but I'll read it because it's just kind of, sorry, amusing.

01:48:37.960 We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women are created by the, you know, you know,

01:48:43.720 the thing. April 2020 on CNN. This is on CNN. He struggled to explain the coronavirus. You know,

01:48:52.780 there's a, during World War, you know, where Roosevelt came up with a thing that, you know,

01:49:00.220 was totally different than a, than the, it's called he, it, the, you know, the World War II.

01:49:07.840 He had the war, the, uh, the production board. That was April, 2020 on CNN. Okay. That was,

01:49:17.840 by the way, before the, um, Laura Trump interview. That was before the Laura Trump interview,

01:49:24.920 which was in October of 2020. So it was no mystery that Joe Biden was deteriorating and there was

01:49:30.920 plenty of speculation and there should have been more about his cognitive decline. They talk about

01:49:36.100 how it came as a surprise to everybody in the white house that he was announcing a second run

01:49:40.540 that you can run it again. Cause there was this understanding that he was going to be a

01:49:44.000 transitional president and only be one term. Uh, and it was kind of announced to them by Joe's top

01:49:49.420 guy and by this guy who is Jill, Jill Biden's chief of staff. And, um, they get into the,

01:49:57.040 this meeting with French president, uh, Emmanuel Macron, where she let the cat out of the bag for

01:50:04.360 apparently the first time. It was, um, a meeting in December of 2022 between Macron, uh, Nancy Pelosi,

01:50:12.540 her daughter, Alexandria, Alexandra Pelosi was there. Jill was there. And they write that

01:50:18.720 Jill started talking about getting in shape for the upcoming campaign. You know, you got to beat your

01:50:24.800 best. And Joe looked totally clueless and didn't seem to have any idea what she was talking about

01:50:29.960 because Alexandra Pelosi looked at him and said like, Oh, do you have an announcement to make?

01:50:32.960 Are you, he looked totally clueless. So not surprisingly, she was pushing it from the beginning.

01:50:39.900 She wanted him out there and she didn't care how badly that race horse was hurt. She wanted it to

01:50:46.860 run on the bad leg. That's Jill Biden. Oh, and by the way, they report that before state visits

01:50:54.700 from foreign leaders, Jill Biden's team asked for talking points with which national security

01:51:01.380 officials were like, what, why does the first lady need talking points before a state that you're

01:51:07.260 supposed to like look pretty and be diplomatic? You're not the president's sweetheart. And you're

01:51:12.260 not a doctor either. Um, that she frequently asked white house personnel like rear Admiral, uh, John

01:51:19.860 Kirby, who was a spokesperson over at the Pentagon to attend her briefings about state dinners. She

01:51:25.800 thought she was president guys, those pictures of her with like his jacket behind the, her, her chair

01:51:32.780 at his desk. She really, she might've been president. To be honest, she might've been

01:51:38.140 she and that Politburo were making the calls. Um, they let's see going forward. Oh, this is a great

01:51:47.340 story about the Biden victory fund razor. Okay. I got to find this one in my notes here so I can read it

01:51:54.660 to you exactly. So this is a group of Hollywood people watching the debate in June of 2024. And

01:52:01.860 those people included among others, Rob Reiner, um, Jane Fonda and Doug Emhoff, Kamala Harris's

01:52:09.700 husband was there. They report a few minutes into the debate and the obvious meltdown. Rob Reiner in

01:52:15.480 the main living room stated plainly, we are fucked a few seats away. Jane Fonda was equally distraught.

01:52:22.840 Reiner became angry. Soon he was venting, standing full of fury. He seemed to be looking at Doug Emhoff

01:52:30.320 daggers quote. We're going to lose our fucking democracy because of you. Reiner yelled because of

01:52:38.740 me. Emhoff thought. So obviously they talked to Emhoff because how else would they know what was in

01:52:44.000 his head? Uh, Biden victory funds finance chair, Chris Korge was overheard saying we are totally fucked.

01:52:51.920 This is over. It's over all over. Donors were putting their heads in their hands. That's a bit

01:52:59.380 of color. Don't you think that's kind of interesting. Oh, and Hakeem Jeffries, who's now like move

01:53:04.360 forward. There's nothing to see here. Um, there was a debate watch party sponsored by the caucus vice

01:53:10.920 chair, Ted Lieu. And, um, after the debate, a number of Democrats, they report surrounded Hakeem

01:53:15.960 Jeffries worried. What just happened is not acceptable. One of them said something has to be

01:53:21.800 done. They wondered, does he have a bad illness? Is there some sort of psychological thing that

01:53:27.280 that's temporary? Some believe there was no way he could stay in the race after what they had just

01:53:31.640 seen. And Jeffries told them calm is an intentional decision. So, I mean, he knew he was trying to quiet

01:53:38.780 the troops. Um, let's see reaction from Biden's own staff during the debate inside the white house and

01:53:45.020 at campaign headquarters. Some aides were defiant. Others were panicking. Many were feeling fury. Is

01:53:50.540 he okay? Devastated the realization of the worst case scenario. Um, okay, let me keep going because

01:53:59.760 there's more. Oh, I love this one. And they talk, they get, have a lot of examples of how poorly he was

01:54:04.640 doing. This one dovetailed perfectly with so many that we had seen. You remember when he kept reading

01:54:09.800 the things out loud, like, please clap, you know, like, and, uh, like the, the anchor directions or

01:54:17.560 the, like the teleprompter directions. He kept reading them out loud, like applause. I shouldn't

01:54:24.760 laugh, but I'm going to, um, here's one I hadn't known about. There was a progressive caucus meeting

01:54:31.700 with him Saturday, July 13th, uh, 2024 Pramaya Jayapal. Remember her? She was one of the squad

01:54:38.880 had reached out to the president's team to set up a zoom call with a congressional progressive

01:54:45.140 caucus. The Biden team set it up for that day throughout the call. Biden was defensive and

01:54:50.120 angry in a way that many members of the congressional caucus, um, progressive caucus had never seen

01:54:56.400 before he insisted that he was the real progressive in the room. It was insane. One of them later said

01:55:02.940 Jayapal was texting Biden's team during the meeting and she let them know that it wasn't going well.

01:55:08.920 He was getting way too defensive. A staffer in the room with Biden got the message, wrote it out and

01:55:13.920 handed it to him. Biden read it aloud. Stay positive. You are sounding defensive.

01:55:20.420 Oh my God, you guys. I mean, okay. You're not shocked, but I mean, it's, it's no, it's good to

01:55:30.720 know these details. Is it not? I'm enjoying it. Um, Biden began prepping his team began prepping

01:55:38.500 with news of the day cards for him in late 2021. It began with a presidential cue card with news of the

01:55:44.060 day, uh, in case reporters asked him something by 2023, the news card had morphed into several cards a

01:55:49.960 day, each bearing information that Biden's own AIDS sometimes felt was quote elementary. Here's the

01:55:56.480 part about the cameras. Um, Biden often couldn't make it through one or two minutes on camera doing

01:56:03.080 video addresses or keynoting an event, uh, without stumbling to compensate AIDS began filming him with

01:56:09.900 two cameras instead of one. If Biden messed up, the edit was less obvious with the jump cut.

01:56:13.600 Other politicians use jump cuts, but Biden AIDS noted to themselves how much more often they had to use

01:56:18.760 them for the president. When they recorded videos, much of the footage was still unusable. The man could

01:56:23.860 not speak, said one person involved. It wasn't his stutter. It was his inability to find words, to remember

01:56:28.820 what he was saying, to stay on one train of thought. AIDS would sometimes make videos in slow motion to blur

01:56:34.700 the reality of how slowly he actually walked. We know that was a Steven Spielberg recommendation. And just think

01:56:42.700 about the irony that these guys are messing with videos in this way, being advised by the greatest

01:56:48.200 filmmaker probably of all time, um, certainly of modern America on exactly how to fool us. And then

01:56:55.400 their media allies are running out there saying the real videos of Biden, a hot mess are the cheap fakes.

01:57:00.300 Those are the cheap fakes, not this shit they were putting out to us. Every shoot they write was

01:57:05.380 anxiety inducing, um, for Biden's team doing the videos without the extra camera would have been

01:57:12.180 impossible. At times the president has such trouble communicating that the videos were unsalvageable

01:57:17.280 and the team just opted not to release them. At other times they released videos whose heavy editing

01:57:22.460 was so obvious that they immediately regretted putting them out. In April, 2024, the campaign held a

01:57:29.480 staged town hall with a high school within in a high school gym to film a campaign commercial. Biden

01:57:35.180 took these prepared questions for about 90 minutes while the campaign cameras rolled. The campaign

01:57:40.120 ultimately decided the footage was not usable. It was not usable. He had trouble pronouncing the names of

01:57:46.380 world leaders. Staff began writing president slash prime minister of X country rather than writing out

01:57:51.220 the names of the leaders. We saw all that. Um, he, they would try to avoid Q and a, uh,

01:57:59.480 if they had Q and a, they would pregame it so that they knew, um, exactly what was going to be asked.

01:58:05.760 They talk about how he tripped on the sandbag and then they did the shorter walking paths and the short

01:58:09.680 steps to air force one. We knew all that. Um, they do talk about threats to press saying the Biden

01:58:18.360 campaign and white house operatives had a modus operandi for attacking any journalists who covered any

01:58:23.460 questions about his age and listing a core of social media influencers, progressive reporters, and

01:58:28.360 Democrat operatives to besmirch as unprofessional and biased those in the news media investigating

01:58:33.800 this line of inquiry. Um, they do talk about, as I mentioned, one female journalist who they made

01:58:43.080 damn sure was not going to write this piece. That's a little bit later. Hold on. The reporter reached

01:58:50.060 out to a member of the white house press office to say she was going to report that he was having

01:58:53.080 serious and disturbing moments, forgetting names and facts, seemingly very seriously confused at

01:58:58.320 meetings. And Steve Ricchetti called her, disputed the reporting and talked to her off the record.

01:59:05.960 So she couldn't use any of what he said or even attribute it, but he told her everything the others

01:59:10.320 were saying was false and that he was at the meetings as a counselor to the president. The message

01:59:16.940 from the white house was clear. This reporter believed if she went forward with a story from anonymous

01:59:21.200 aides, the white house would aggressively dispute it on the record and portray her as a liar.

01:59:26.060 The tacit threat worked. Um, they talk about a Biden fundraiser in 2023 where he retold the same

01:59:35.320 story within three minutes of telling it the first time. And this was within his working hours

01:59:42.440 between 10 and four. That was all true that, you know, four to six hour work day. True.

01:59:48.080 Shortly after 4 PM on a Wednesday, September 20th, 2023, for example, New York times reporter,

01:59:54.040 Michael Shearer was among the small pool of white house reporters permitted to attend a Biden fundraiser

01:59:57.820 at the Manhattan home of Carrie Fowler and Amy Goldman Fowler before a roughly a crowd of roughly

02:00:03.780 two dozen donors. He stumbled through remarks reading from note cards. He referred to the J six

02:00:08.200 insurrection as, as happening on J eight, January eight. How do you not know J six happened on J six?

02:00:14.860 It was on January eight, according to him and had trouble making basic arguments, but the biggest

02:00:19.260 shot came when he told his campaign origin story. He wasn't planning on running for president,

02:00:24.380 um, after the Obama administration, but then came Charlottesville. He told the very fine people

02:00:29.780 on both sides lie. He told the donors, and I mean this sincerely, that's when I decided I was going to

02:00:34.600 run again. Um, he talked about the Nazi signs, a young woman who was killed, a young woman who was

02:00:40.700 killed. Next Biden went through a story about his family meeting to discuss whether he should run.

02:00:45.020 And after describing some of the conversation, he said, you know, you may remember that, you know,

02:00:49.560 these folks from Charlottesville, as they came out of the fields and carrying those swastikas

02:00:54.140 and the torches. And in addition to that, there was white supremacists. Anyway, they were making the

02:00:59.520 big case about how terrible this was. And a young woman was killed in the process. He then noted my

02:01:04.600 predecessor and I, as I said, he said, there are very fine people on both sides. He,

02:01:09.100 the same exact story, the young woman, the fine people, the torches, the swastikas three minutes

02:01:15.760 later. So I decided I would run. The room sheer noticed was stone cold, silent. Two days later,

02:01:25.720 as the white house press secretary was asked about the president repeating the same story,

02:01:28.620 mere minutes apart. Karine Jean-Pierre said, quote, the president was making very clear

02:01:32.460 why he decided to run F this woman. She added that he was speaking from his heart

02:01:38.140 and doing so in an incredibly passionate way. Villain. She knew. And she lied.

02:01:48.140 A couple more. The wheelchair stories in here. We talked about that the other day.

02:01:52.260 This guy, Dr. O'Connor, we believe he's the one who did all the physicals and may or may not have

02:01:57.120 done the PSA test. He had been consistent in his assertion that Biden's gait had changed largely

02:02:03.360 because of significant spinal arthritis in addition to mild post fracture foot arthritis and a mild

02:02:09.900 sensory periphery neuropathy of the foot or the feet. Biden's team was offering new explanations

02:02:16.080 that were more politically palatable. Multiple people close to the white house explained he walked

02:02:21.180 this way partly because of his refusal to wear an orthopedic boot while suffering a hairline fracture

02:02:27.860 in his foot before taking office. Lies. All lies. There's a history of him lying about his health

02:02:35.780 and there's no reason to believe his current stories. They get into the cognitive exam so they

02:02:41.640 didn't think that they were necessary. Threatening. I talked about. Oh yeah. Congressman Mike Quigley

02:02:50.700 after the, you know, the big state of the union. Oh, he's so strong. He's back. Wow. Look at him go.

02:02:56.280 He tell, they tell the story that Congressman Mike Quigley, who had not been this close to Biden since

02:03:00.540 they were in Dublin almost a year before, put his hand on the president's back. He could feel his ribs

02:03:05.820 and his spine. It was like touching Mr. Burns from the Simpsons. The president's voice was soft and

02:03:12.000 breathy. His eyes were darting from side to side. It again, disconcertingly reminded Quigley of his late

02:03:18.140 father. There were a couple of memories like that with various people where being with Biden reminded

02:03:25.120 them of their elderly parents, of somebody who they knew who had Alzheimer's, et cetera.

02:03:32.300 And here's one more Kamala Harris after the debate, when the pressure was on for him to leave

02:03:38.320 and some of his loyalists backed him, the democratic governors came to the white house. Remember that

02:03:43.100 when they all went by planes, trains and automobiles, their goal was to have a candid conversation with

02:03:47.920 president about what was going on in the different states and how they viewed the race. Before

02:03:52.100 everyone got a chance to speak, the vice president wrapped up the meeting. We have to have the

02:03:56.880 president's back, Harris said. It's our fucking democracy at stake. That's what this is all about,

02:04:04.000 you guys. This is all about a little thing called the TDS. And once you get the TDS, it's very,

02:04:13.480 very hard to get rid of the TDS and to interpret anything in your world without it being severely

02:04:20.460 clouded by the TDS. This is about our fucking democracy. We will drag this infirm old man across

02:04:29.360 the finish line if it kills us. And we will not talk about agape or any of the multiple problems

02:04:37.140 that we are seeing. And God knows how many of them may have known about a possible prostate cancer

02:04:43.280 diagnosis that may have already been circulated amongst his top team. I don't believe for one

02:04:49.840 minute he just found out about it. I just don't. The press, the aides, top Democrats, surrogates in

02:04:59.140 the media, they all went along with the lie because of the TDS. And only now are they coming to grips

02:05:08.560 with what they did to their party themselves and the faith and trust that some people had at one

02:05:16.480 point in the Democrat party. This story is not going away. All of these people who are going to be

02:05:23.020 running for president the next time around will be asked what they knew. And anyone from inside the

02:05:29.700 administration is going to be held to account. I mean, Pete Buttigieg, he didn't know. Really?

02:05:36.440 I can't wait until he comes under questioning because you know what? CNN is likely to get a

02:05:41.060 debate. And I bet you we'll see Jake Tapper sitting there. And I wonder if he sees any of these four

02:05:47.000 cabinet secretaries who spoke to him, whether he will ask them about their role in the cover-up.

02:05:55.380 Won't that be an interesting moment? Thank you all for listening. More on this

02:06:00.680 ongoing story in the days ahead. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

02:06:06.040 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:06:17.000 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 20, 2025

Truth About the Biden Cover-Up, and Revelations in ＂Original Sin,＂ with Jake Tapper, Alex Thompson, and Batya Ungar-Sargon ｜ Ep. 1076

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