The Megyn Kelly Show - Tucker Carlson on Interviewing Fuentes, America First, and Demons and UFOs - ＂Megyn Kelly Live＂ From New York

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00:00:30.360 Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.

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00:01:00.900 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:02.620 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:06.300 Oh, it's so great to be here so close to home.

00:01:15.720 God bless White Plains.

00:01:17.860 Yes.

00:01:19.180 Know it and love it well.

00:01:20.380 Been to them all many times.

00:01:22.320 Many times.

00:01:23.540 I am a lifelong New Yorker, as you may know.

00:01:26.280 Born and raised my whole life in the state of New York, upstate New York, and then down

00:01:30.180 in New York City.

00:01:30.740 Yeah, Bethlehem, right?

00:01:32.480 Hometown.

00:01:33.960 And it's so exciting to be back home with you.

00:01:35.840 This one's, like, special to me because I see so many familiar faces who I live with and

00:01:40.880 dine with and spend my life with and my kids, too.

00:01:44.280 So, thank you.

00:01:45.180 Thank you for showing up.

00:01:45.920 This one's special to me.

00:01:46.820 I wish we had some better news to discuss.

00:01:55.220 My God, what a shit show.

00:01:58.460 All right, of all the ones who were elected, Jay Jones?

00:02:01.500 Really?

00:02:02.520 Can you believe?

00:02:04.720 Like, that's the one that hurts the most.

00:02:06.600 I mean, obviously, Zoran Mamdami is an extremely controversial leftist, communist, Islamist.

00:02:14.300 There are a long list of things that are wrong with him.

00:02:16.640 But who in, like, Virginia, which not so long ago was kind of red?

00:02:21.220 I mean, when I first got to Fox, it was red back in 2004 and a little while thereafter,

00:02:25.680 that would elect a man who gets off on fantasizing about murdering Republicans and their kids.

00:02:31.780 Like, what does it say about us?

00:02:33.620 Truly, how do we break bread with those people?

00:02:36.080 Like, the ones who said, yeah, he's for me.

00:02:38.120 He didn't say he's going to kill Democrats.

00:02:40.440 But truly, like, who, I believe fully in my heart that the Republicans would not vote for such a person.

00:02:47.320 If they had a Republican on the ticket who had said those things, yes,

00:02:50.800 I think Republicans would have held the line against a person like that.

00:02:55.120 I mean, it's like one thing to have a controversy, to say something dumb that's controversial.

00:02:58.700 This is in a field of its own.

00:03:00.780 I want them dead, and I want their children dead.

00:03:03.320 I was saying this on the show today.

00:03:04.460 I don't even, like, I don't know how to explain that to my own children.

00:03:07.720 Like, how a state like Virginia elected that man as their top law enforcement officer.

00:03:13.440 It's beyond.

00:03:14.960 But look, the problems are so much deeper than Jay Jones, right?

00:03:17.620 The Republicans have got to learn to win without dad.

00:03:22.640 Right?

00:03:23.960 You're not going to have Trump on the ticket ever again.

00:03:27.600 I know what Steve Bannon says.

00:03:29.660 Trust me.

00:03:30.740 Trump's not going to be on the ticket ever again.

00:03:32.540 There's the whole matter of the Constitution.

00:03:34.460 He's going to be around.

00:03:35.600 He's going to be very influential.

00:03:37.120 You know, he's got the big gorilla claw that he's going to use to boost or not boost certain people.

00:03:42.160 But these Republicans, I mean, honestly, I hate to burst your bubble, but don't get too excited about them.

00:03:47.200 Truly.

00:03:47.840 Like, do you really believe the Republican Party knows exactly how to win without Trump?

00:03:52.820 No.

00:03:53.360 Me neither.

00:03:54.380 It's depressing.

00:03:55.920 So the only silver lining that I see coming out of last night, well, there are two.

00:04:00.720 There is the fact that we will have Zoran Mamdani to kick around for four years.

00:04:04.760 As the poster boy for Democrats.

00:04:06.620 That's going to be very useful.

00:04:08.440 And I will tell you this.

00:04:09.680 Having seen a bunch of Republicans around the administration and, you know, adjacent to and in over the past month or two,

00:04:15.440 many of them were excited about him winning.

00:04:18.700 Like, they don't really love New York the way we all love New York, being close to New York.

00:04:22.820 And they just see this as such a political win for Republicans, having this guy as the poster child.

00:04:27.500 It was good enough having the squad for as long as we've had it.

00:04:30.780 But this is next level.

00:04:32.180 He's going full communist.

00:04:33.660 And he's praising the crazy Islamist, you know, mosque imam who celebrated the World Trade Center bombing in 93.

00:04:40.520 Like, this is mana from heaven for Republicans.

00:04:43.780 So that's one of the silver linings.

00:04:45.140 But the second silver lining, as I see it, is we've got a year until the midterms.

00:04:50.520 So the Republicans have time to get their shit together and realize they need a new game plan for how to win.

00:05:00.300 Scott Pressler cannot do it all on his own.

00:05:05.940 God bless Scott Pressler.

00:05:07.600 He's here tonight.

00:05:08.740 Rock star.

00:05:10.480 American patriot.

00:05:11.740 Yes, right there.

00:05:13.080 We love you.

00:05:14.300 We don't deserve you.

00:05:15.420 Scott Pressler is to purple states what Ronan Farrow was to Me Too type men.

00:05:26.160 You see him move in on your territory and you're like, oh God, this isn't going to end well for me.

00:05:31.920 He did it in Pennsylvania and he nearly did it in New Jersey.

00:05:36.380 What's up?

00:05:37.060 What's our next state, Scott?

00:05:38.460 Where are we going next?

00:05:43.680 California.

00:05:44.820 Yes.

00:05:46.400 California.

00:05:48.120 Yes.

00:05:48.800 Let's do California.

00:05:49.880 Those poor souls out there.

00:05:51.200 Almost 40% of the state Republicans are in California.

00:05:53.800 37 and change.

00:05:55.440 And they're about to have no representatives.

00:05:57.020 I mean, absolutely none.

00:05:58.080 And then another, an additional five.

00:06:00.280 I mean, they already have none.

00:06:01.280 But they're about to have an additional five who are Dems who go out and try to purport to represent them.

00:06:05.660 You have absolutely, you know how Washington, D.C. has those license plates represent, or taxation without representation because they don't actually have actual lawmakers representing them.

00:06:14.340 California needs that.

00:06:15.260 The California Republicans genuinely have taxation without representation there.

00:06:19.720 It's really sad.

00:06:20.760 Yet another thing that we need to think about rectifying.

00:06:23.220 So, look, we've got Zora Mondani to push around for four years.

00:06:26.400 He's going to ruin New York.

00:06:27.900 It's quite a high cost to pay.

00:06:29.800 But let's be honest.

00:06:30.760 Bill de Blasio already ruined it.

00:06:33.640 The people in this room know.

00:06:35.780 It used to be a great town.

00:06:36.900 Now it's one big city bank in CVS.

00:06:39.660 So, he's going to take it from bad to worse.

00:06:42.020 But ideally, somebody will learn a lesson at some point.

00:06:45.360 But in four years, those 29-year-olds who voted him in will be in their 30s, maybe earning a little bit more and maybe a little bit more rational.

00:06:52.000 In the meantime, we have Connecticut.

00:06:53.660 I know it's not the solution to all our problems.

00:06:58.740 Ned Lamont sucks, too.

00:07:01.080 I know.

00:07:02.040 But we can't all move to Florida.

00:07:04.540 We live in the Northeast.

00:07:05.900 We like the change of seasons.

00:07:07.460 We like our fall leaves.

00:07:08.880 We like our snowy mornings.

00:07:10.620 That's how we're built.

00:07:11.620 Am I right?

00:07:12.060 That's the problem.

00:07:15.820 So, in any event, I got it.

00:07:18.200 That's all I got for you.

00:07:19.300 I have nothing else to make you feel better.

00:07:20.800 We're together.

00:07:22.120 We're in a...

00:07:22.720 It's the Ann Coulter line that I love.

00:07:24.500 I saw her at the Republican National Convention back in 2012.

00:07:27.840 We're all in the Fox News green room.

00:07:29.620 And she comes in.

00:07:30.780 And she's been, you know, a diehard Republican her whole life.

00:07:33.120 A diehard conservative.

00:07:34.240 Stories of her, like in college, where she got rid of the little alligator on her IZOD shirt and replaced it with an elephant.

00:07:41.600 That she sewed there.

00:07:43.520 She's not kidding around.

00:07:44.680 And even as a young person.

00:07:45.700 So, she walks in.

00:07:46.720 And I'm like...

00:07:47.280 And everybody kind of knew Mitt Romney was not going to win against Barack Obama.

00:07:50.780 But she comes into the Fox News green room bursting with positive energy.

00:07:54.620 I'm like, Ann, how you doing?

00:07:55.860 She goes, I'm great.

00:07:58.200 I'm in a sea of Republicans.

00:08:01.100 And that's how I feel tonight.

00:08:06.140 All right.

00:08:06.720 So, let's get this party started.

00:08:07.840 We're going to do...

00:08:08.500 We're going to take some questions.

00:08:09.560 We'll do a little Q&A.

00:08:10.500 And then we'll bring out the man of the hour.

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00:09:04.520 And let me know what you think.

00:09:06.420 RiverbendRanch.com.

00:09:07.360 Let's do some questions if you guys have them.

00:09:13.000 It's hard for me to see.

00:09:13.700 Yeah, there we go.

00:09:14.260 Okay.

00:09:14.600 Hi there.

00:09:15.740 Hi, Megan.

00:09:17.320 I'm Megan.

00:09:18.360 Hi.

00:09:18.680 Yes, we've met.

00:09:19.320 Nice to see you.

00:09:20.060 Yes.

00:09:20.580 I love you.

00:09:22.020 You are an inspiration to me.

00:09:23.860 You make me a stronger American.

00:09:26.860 Thank you.

00:09:27.400 Thank you very much.

00:09:28.360 Oh, that's beautiful.

00:09:30.260 We all know how entertaining the clips of The View can be.

00:09:34.320 Yes.

00:09:34.680 But might it be more beneficial to ignore their ridiculous dialogue?

00:09:40.300 What?

00:09:40.680 Which would result in their show being canceled.

00:09:43.840 No, it wouldn't.

00:09:45.340 We need something to laugh about.

00:09:47.700 Right?

00:09:48.320 If you guys watch and listen to my show, which I assume you do because you're here, we have

00:09:52.160 to laugh.

00:09:53.260 What are we if we don't laugh at the news?

00:09:56.220 Like, you can't take the news too seriously.

00:09:58.360 And that's why I love those morons so much.

00:10:01.180 I mean, that's what's been so shocking about the Corrine Jean-Pierre media tour.

00:10:06.780 Like, when you are too dumb for The View, what, where do you go from there?

00:10:14.000 I genuinely don't know.

00:10:16.260 That's it.

00:10:17.140 You're already at bottom.

00:10:18.460 So no, I'm not giving up my mocking of them.

00:10:20.860 But thank you for the suggestion.

00:10:23.720 Hi.

00:10:24.560 Hey, Megan.

00:10:25.300 Thanks for coming out.

00:10:26.220 I just had a quick question for you.

00:10:28.000 You touched on it a bit in the beginning.

00:10:30.400 Obviously, Zoran Mamdani is going to be the next mayor.

00:10:33.860 Is this an early Christmas present to the GOP?

00:10:37.820 Like, what size is it?

00:10:39.100 Stocking stuffer, main gift?

00:10:41.000 How big of a gift is this going to be in the midterms?

00:10:43.360 That's a good question.

00:10:44.300 I feel like this is one of those electronic Jeeps that you get that you can ride on the

00:10:49.120 street.

00:10:49.460 That's the level of present this is.

00:10:51.400 You know, like the one where your kid is like, that's what this is.

00:10:54.740 You couldn't ask for better.

00:10:56.220 I mean, Abigail Spanberger, I said on the show today, she's like Melba Toast.

00:11:01.200 She's like the most boring, untalented politician ever.

00:11:05.060 She's completely non-threatening.

00:11:07.120 She's feckless.

00:11:08.440 She's going to trans all of Virginia.

00:11:10.680 But so were all of the Democrats.

00:11:12.940 Like, for some reason, Virginia has become ground zero in that fight.

00:11:16.280 But Zoran Mamdani is like, he's out there and he's like vibrant and he commands the microphone

00:11:21.460 and he knows how to talk to a camera.

00:11:23.380 So he's going to be on camera all the time saying all the crazy shit.

00:11:27.540 It really is a Christmas gift in November if you don't love New York.

00:11:32.860 That's why everyone in this room is conflicted.

00:11:35.100 Hi.

00:11:35.600 Go ahead, hon.

00:11:36.200 Hello, Mrs. Kelly.

00:11:37.420 What advice would you give to a seventh grader who has a trans teacher who is a biological

00:11:42.060 female but makes everyone call her a him?

00:11:45.440 Oh, boy.

00:11:50.380 That's complicated.

00:11:52.580 And I'll answer this honestly because this is my own.

00:11:56.680 So, you know, I don't say the preferred pronouns anymore.

00:11:59.260 I used to because I thought it was polite.

00:12:01.540 Yeah.

00:12:02.020 But now I no longer believe in it at all.

00:12:04.660 But this is a different situation because she's an authority figure over you and, you know,

00:12:09.280 you're a student.

00:12:10.960 So if looking at this person directly, I would just try to avoid pronouns altogether.

00:12:16.400 I would just completely try to avoid them.

00:12:18.160 But if you have to say them, I think in a student teacher situation, I would say them

00:12:22.020 because you're sort of subordinate to her in some ways.

00:12:26.160 And it's a very, that's a tough situation to ask a young girl like you to say the proper

00:12:30.960 pronouns when she's not going by them anymore.

00:12:34.060 But I think you need a nightly reminder to yourself.

00:12:36.080 I really think when you say your prayers at night, you need to ask God to remind you

00:12:39.360 so that your brain can remember what is real.

00:12:42.860 What is real?

00:12:44.340 That you've been asked to go along with this charade and you will do it to be respectful

00:12:48.320 to this one individual.

00:12:50.660 But when you are at home, I strongly urge you not to use those preferred pronouns so your

00:12:54.980 brain can remember what you're actually dealing with or just refer to that teacher by their

00:12:58.400 last name, you know, when you're not in their presence.

00:13:01.420 I think directly, though, you could show that teacher the respect of doing it given the

00:13:04.780 relationship.

00:13:05.240 But you just remember because pronouns are rohypnol.

00:13:08.100 And what they do to your brain is they dull it.

00:13:10.600 They dull its natural sense of urgency and safety and danger.

00:13:14.100 And you, especially as a young girl, must have those honed.

00:13:17.420 So do not let that sense get honed.

00:13:19.800 Practice it every night and remind yourself of what's real.

00:13:22.440 Thank you.

00:13:24.980 Hi there.

00:13:27.460 Hello, Megan.

00:13:28.080 Thank you very much.

00:13:29.680 I've been a gay conservative for 25 years.

00:13:32.080 I've served under Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

00:13:34.000 God bless you.

00:13:34.460 Fight the good fight.

00:13:36.060 My question of you is how can I help my fellow gays come out of the closet politically?

00:13:42.660 What is the word I can use to get them to come?

00:13:45.040 And I know there are people on the religious right that don't want me in this movement,

00:13:48.320 but I'm going to be here anyway.

00:13:49.720 And I want to help the others come out as well.

00:13:53.360 We love you.

00:13:54.480 And we do want you in this movement.

00:13:56.320 And don't listen to those haters.

00:13:57.760 They don't speak for us.

00:13:59.820 The conservative movement has been welcoming gays and lesbians for a long, long time now.

00:14:04.480 And it is only a very small, fringy group that doesn't want you.

00:14:08.140 So don't listen to them.

00:14:09.180 Don't give them a bigger microphone than they pretend to have.

00:14:11.800 You know, your fellow, like, gay conservatives, I think they're waking up bit by bit.

00:14:17.240 I really think we're seeing more and more of them.

00:14:19.640 And I really think that the craziness of the TQ crowd has driven quite a few LGBs over to the political right.

00:14:28.400 Because they realize we love lesbians.

00:14:31.300 We love gays.

00:14:32.560 Bys, I don't totally understand.

00:14:34.000 I think those are usually gays.

00:14:36.020 But the point is, the point is, we're not trying to trans you.

00:14:39.980 We're not trying to change you from, we love our butch lesbians.

00:14:43.680 Great.

00:14:44.540 Awesome.

00:14:45.100 The lipsticks are fine, too.

00:14:46.600 We love our effeminate gay boys.

00:14:48.860 That's fine.

00:14:49.540 That's awesome.

00:14:50.500 We don't think they're secretly girls.

00:14:52.620 Only the Democrats think that.

00:14:54.440 It's truly like, they have that law in Colorado where it's like, you can't have conversion therapy now.

00:14:58.920 And they consider conversion therapy no longer what we used to think,

00:15:01.920 which is like, you take a gay person and try to make them straight.

00:15:04.880 Technically, it's that.

00:15:05.740 But they also say, it's when you take a kid who comes in and says, I might be trans, and say, yes, you're trans, you're trans, you're trans.

00:15:11.320 That's what they want.

00:15:12.180 They think if you say, are you sure?

00:15:14.400 Let's talk about what's bothering you.

00:15:16.020 And you want to have a discussion about it.

00:15:17.860 They say that's conversion therapy.

00:15:20.040 They want to convert little boys who might have any gender confusion into girls.

00:15:25.960 That is completely bigoted.

00:15:27.620 And I think the more we make that argument to our gay and lesbian liberal friends, the more likely we are to get them to step a little bit to the right and a little bit to the right and a little bit more.

00:15:40.300 So this is their tent.

00:15:42.160 Thank you.

00:15:48.260 Hi, Megan.

00:15:49.200 Hi.

00:15:49.460 I'm Molly from Minnesota, here with my husband.

00:15:51.980 I'm a mom of three, lawyer.

00:15:54.640 I love you.

00:15:55.120 So thank you for this opportunity.

00:15:57.440 My question is a tricky one.

00:16:00.280 It's about your view on what we're calling platforming.

00:16:03.840 Earlier this past summer, you challenged Charlie's decision to go on Gavin Newsom's podcast.

00:16:09.860 I think with the idea being that his presence there legitimized Governor Newsom's facade of being a moderate or kind of brought him into the national conversation.

00:16:23.340 But more recently, you did not publicly question Tucker's decision to give an amicable interview to Nick Fuentes, who espouses views that probably should not be legitimized.

00:16:39.660 And so my question is, how do you distinguish the two?

00:16:42.380 And what responsibility do you feel as an independent journalist to give or not give a platform to controversial or even like bad actors?

00:16:54.260 Thank you.

00:16:54.540 Thank you for that.

00:16:55.300 Totally fair question.

00:16:56.140 Just to correct you, though, I did not object to Charlie going on Gavin's podcast because it legitimized Gavin or enhanced his platform.

00:17:05.680 It was that I believe he's in training for 2028 to run against J.D. Vance, and I object to us helping him.

00:17:13.700 I don't think we should help.

00:17:15.300 He spent no time in our circles.

00:17:16.800 He doesn't give a shit how we feel about the world.

00:17:18.840 He's only spent his years mocking it.

00:17:20.420 And now that he wants to run for president, he wants to study us like lab rats, and he wants to get Bannon on there and Charlie on there.

00:17:28.080 I think he has Tucker on there because he wants to train in how to debate us, and I don't think we should help him.

00:17:33.020 I said it on my show.

00:17:34.280 It's like the Rocky versus Drago, Rocky 4.

00:17:38.160 Was that Rocky 4 or 5?

00:17:39.460 Right?

00:17:39.680 It's like, why would we help Drago?

00:17:41.160 We're on Rocky's side.

00:17:42.220 Like, somebody else can train him and put the sled behind him and all that crap.

00:17:45.000 So, that's what I objected to, not the platforming, because in general, I'm fine with platforming.

00:17:49.400 You know, I'm like the guys in the fifth column.

00:17:51.360 I don't even like that term.

00:17:52.560 What is platforming?

00:17:53.320 It's called interviewing.

00:17:54.480 You know, Diane Sawyer interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer.

00:17:57.580 Like, we do that as journalists.

00:17:59.860 Like, literally, Mike Wallace had the head of the KKK on 60 Minutes in a hood.

00:18:04.080 In a hood.

00:18:05.580 Now, generally, what you do is when you get somebody like that, you challenge them.

00:18:10.560 Right?

00:18:10.760 And I think some people thought maybe Tucker wasn't tough enough on Nick Fuentes in bringing up some of his old comments.

00:18:17.980 Not so old.

00:18:19.860 And I will tell you, while I rarely criticize Tucker because he's one of my dearest friends and I adore him,

00:18:26.180 I happen to know that I had a big event with Tucker coming up.

00:18:30.040 And if you just wait a few minutes, you might hear us have a very interesting conversation about that.

00:18:39.840 Hi there.

00:18:40.760 Hi, Megan.

00:18:42.460 My name is Donna.

00:18:43.780 It's not so much a question, but just wanted to say thank you.

00:18:47.880 In 2015, my son Michael was murdered by illegal gun violence at the age of 23.

00:18:56.080 He was my best friend.

00:18:57.220 And a lot of times, just to forget about what I was actually feeling, I would watch you on Fox, just to keep my mind busy.

00:19:07.560 And I just wanted to thank you.

00:19:08.760 Thank you for coming to Westchester, the White Plains.

00:19:11.060 We love you.

00:19:11.960 You're so sweet.

00:19:13.300 Thank you.

00:19:14.280 I'm so sorry about your loss.

00:19:18.120 I'll say a prayer for you and for him.

00:19:20.780 Thank you.

00:19:21.320 He's with the Savior, and he's in a great place.

00:19:23.520 And I'll bet he's looking at us right now and cheering you for getting up and saying that.

00:19:29.020 You know, I think you revealed something about yourself, though, and it's the reason why you're going to be okay.

00:19:35.200 And that is you chose to do something while you were grieving to get your mind off of it.

00:19:41.520 That's a very healthy thing to do.

00:19:43.320 Very healthy.

00:19:44.620 You know, we talk about this sometimes.

00:19:45.680 But people, these days, they want to ruminate.

00:19:47.900 They encourage one another to sit in their misery.

00:19:51.220 Now, obviously, when you first had a massive loss, that's going to happen.

00:19:54.300 And that's natural, and that's important.

00:19:56.020 But, you know, years as they go by, the more you want to ruminate and think about these things, the more unhappy you will be.

00:20:01.260 And I really think, I've said this before, but my husband, Doug, is a Presbyterian, and he's really now convinced me that the best method is to just push it down.

00:20:10.400 I know it's funny, but it's real.

00:20:12.740 I was raised in the crazy Oprah generation where we let it all hang out, and then we were 400 pounds.

00:20:19.720 This is not the way, my friends.

00:20:21.360 The way is to turn on the news and distract yourself.

00:20:24.100 Get your mind off of your problems for a little while.

00:20:26.960 It's frankly why I think true crime is so popular.

00:20:29.520 You know?

00:20:30.800 Like, I use it for that, too.

00:20:32.140 You can't think of anything when you're thinking about these terrible stories, and who murdered this poor lady?

00:20:35.740 By the way, it was always the husband.

00:20:38.080 But I thank you for sharing that with me.

00:20:39.700 Yeah, we'll take a couple more, and then we'll wrap it.

00:20:41.840 Hi, Megan.

00:20:42.680 Hi.

00:20:43.000 I'm Kate.

00:20:43.740 I run an election watchdog group in Maryland.

00:20:47.160 You have an incredible way with using data and your persuasive legal analysis to move the needle, and I really appreciate that about you.

00:20:57.740 One thing I'm wondering is, with all the stunning amount of evidence that our elections are not secure or even possibly safe, I'm wondering why you don't focus on elections every once in a while for the guests that you've been around.

00:21:12.820 Fair question.

00:21:13.560 That's a fair question.

00:21:14.500 You know, it's not something that I understand fully.

00:21:17.660 And to understand it fully, you of all people know this, you really got to study it.

00:21:23.200 So I kind of feel about it the way I feel about tariffs.

00:21:26.740 Like, I'll put a toe in, but I don't feel like I have the authority to go deep in because I don't fully understand it, so therefore I can't be an authority on it or explain it to my audience.

00:21:36.840 But I, like you, have serious questions about it.

00:21:39.780 I'm very much in the Trump camp of all this vote by mail is very dangerous.

00:21:45.220 I agree with him that the number of hands that touch the ballot make it—I realize it's convenient, trust me, but I don't think it's secure, and I would much rather we return to one day, one vote, right?

00:21:56.140 And the Democrats won't, too, because they know that Republicans are the ones who show up on the day of.

00:21:59.600 And by the way, then they can't cheat.

00:22:01.420 So it's a good suggestion, especially as we go forward in election year.

00:22:04.780 Thank you.

00:22:05.420 Thank you for what you do.

00:22:06.140 All right, we'll take one more.

00:22:09.600 Hi, Megan.

00:22:10.380 Thanks for being here.

00:22:11.180 My name's Maury.

00:22:11.960 I'm here with my wife, Amy.

00:22:13.600 I'm asking for you to play out Proposition 50 in terms of how it is for the Republicans and for Gavin Newsom.

00:22:20.440 Well, it's terrible for the Republicans.

00:22:22.520 You know Prop 50 in California where they changed—they weren't allowed to redistrict in California willy-nilly.

00:22:28.100 It had to be, like, done once every 10 years.

00:22:30.040 I can't remember what the limit was.

00:22:31.320 But they just changed that such that they can redo it now.

00:22:34.300 And it was a direct response to what happened in Texas with Greg Abbott redistricting down there, which, by the way, to me, too, looked like a naked power grab at first in Texas.

00:22:42.360 But the more I studied it, the more I actually was convinced they did gerrymander in Texas to create more black districts, which is racist and not allowed.

00:22:52.920 And the people who challenged that have had a lot—like, very good grounds to challenge that.

00:22:58.040 And I completely understand the lawsuits and actually support them saying that the original redrawing of the districts in Texas to allow districts to be drawn around racial lines is what was wrong.

00:23:08.620 And now they're trying to correct that.

00:23:11.340 And so what the Democrats did in California was not a tit-for-tat.

00:23:14.440 It actually doubled down on what the Democrats have already been the chiefs of, which is the redistricting in order to create gerrymandered seats for their people across the country.

00:23:23.740 So my only hope—and, like, you know I'm for fighting fire with fire when it comes to the law affair and some other things—is we've got to find a state where we can do that, too.

00:23:31.980 And we're just going to have to play this game where, like, you know, nuclear arms race until somebody says, uncle.

00:23:36.720 But I think it's going to be them because they've already squeezed almost all the districts they can out of their gerrymander schemes.

00:23:41.720 And I think Republicans have a few more to go.

00:23:44.400 So it's on.

00:23:45.520 Sorry, but it's on.

00:23:46.680 All right.

00:23:47.060 Thank you, sir.

00:23:48.020 Thank you all for listening to the Q&A.

00:23:49.780 It's so fun to talk to you.

00:23:51.140 I was saying on the show, like, I never get to talk to you.

00:23:52.880 I talk to you, but I never get you to talk to me.

00:23:54.920 So it's wonderful to see your faces and hear your questions and hear what's directly on your mind.

00:23:58.380 I am thoroughly enjoying the tour.

00:24:01.160 Okay.

00:24:01.740 Without further ado, you're going to love this.

00:24:03.880 Now, listen.

00:24:04.720 I'm going to tell you a few things about my guest tonight.

00:24:08.320 And then we have a really fun sizzle reel for him.

00:24:10.580 We've been working on it for a while.

00:24:13.000 So Tucker Carlson and I met, I think it was back in, like, 2009.

00:24:18.100 He started coming on Fox News as a contributor.

00:24:21.500 And as he likes to say, he's been fired from every place.

00:24:24.640 And so he wound up at Fox News.

00:24:26.200 I mean, it was an obvious place for him because he was always a conservative.

00:24:28.980 But had done his time at CNN and MS and other places.

00:24:31.920 And he comes over to Fox News.

00:24:33.480 And I found him fascinating right from the get-go because Tucker, even back then, had ways into the story and had ideas of what was the story that no one else had.

00:24:45.900 Right?

00:24:46.260 That is one of Tucker's greatest gifts to this day.

00:24:48.800 He finds ways into the story or he finds the story that no one else is talking about.

00:24:52.860 One thing you could never accuse Tucker of is being rote and repetitive of what you hear everywhere else.

00:24:59.980 And so for me, as an anchor at Fox News at the time, I think I was still doing America's Newsroom with Bill Hemmer.

00:25:04.680 He caught my attention immediately.

00:25:06.240 And then I had an afternoon show.

00:25:07.660 I was pregnant with my daughter, Yardley, at the time.

00:25:11.880 And Tucker would come on.

00:25:13.260 And then in 2013, he got hired as a weekend host at Fox & Friends.

00:25:19.180 And that is when I launched in the primetime with the Kelly File that same year.

00:25:23.540 And I started having Tucker on.

00:25:25.200 He was always great.

00:25:25.920 He was always funny.

00:25:27.220 He's so affable and such like a kind, happy warrior.

00:25:32.020 He's always been that way.

00:25:33.100 No matter how much crap rains down on Tucker, he never loses his sense of humor or his general sense of just being a good, happy person to have around.

00:25:41.540 He walks into the room.

00:25:42.620 The energy improves immediately.

00:25:44.400 So we had that back then.

00:25:46.320 And listen, those were not great years.

00:25:47.820 Those were the Obama years.

00:25:49.160 Like the news was boring.

00:25:50.980 Obama was boring, but we knew we didn't like him.

00:25:53.660 And Tucker was always super entertaining.

00:25:55.220 So I started to fall in love with this guy on the air.

00:25:57.040 You know, I just thought he was really special.

00:25:59.020 And then as our careers kept going, Donald Trump came on the scene.

00:26:02.140 And people don't know this about Tucker, but from the moment Trump came out politically in 2015 forward, Tucker was a Trump whisperer.

00:26:11.840 He didn't bill himself as that.

00:26:14.120 People didn't fully understand that's what he was, but I saw it.

00:26:18.460 And he saw the magic of Trump before anybody else did.

00:26:22.660 There were very few who could actually see it and articulate it.

00:26:26.220 And the ones who could and did are the ones who would drive that Trump wave to superstardom.

00:26:32.040 Very few.

00:26:32.780 It could have been superstardom in the political field or in the media field.

00:26:35.320 And that was Tucker Carlson.

00:26:37.040 Every time I had him on.

00:26:38.480 And I never knew whether he loved Trump or didn't love Trump.

00:26:41.400 I just knew he got Trump.

00:26:43.760 He was a Trump whisperer in a way very few were when Trump was being universally dismissed, including by me.

00:26:50.140 And so he helped me, I listened to him, and I learned.

00:26:55.440 And what he taught me, night after night, coming on the show, talking about Trump, was right.

00:27:01.200 And when Trump won and then became our president, and then slowly but surely over the next 10 years would build this massive support,

00:27:08.660 It wasn't a surprise to me because of Tucker Carlson, because I listened to somebody who was saying something very different from what everybody else was saying,

00:27:18.060 and he did not mislead me.

00:27:20.020 He was right.

00:27:21.500 And the thing about Tucker is he's been right about so much.

00:27:26.680 We could be here all night, but another one that we have to mention is COVID, right?

00:27:31.160 He was early, early on the train of, this is wrong, this is authoritarian, this is evil, what they're doing to us.

00:27:39.140 How are they closing the beaches?

00:27:40.400 How are they cutting down the basketball hoops?

00:27:42.560 Not that many people were saying that.

00:27:44.260 A couple, even on Fox.

00:27:46.180 But Tucker was, and he was in that role.

00:27:49.380 And he was in that primetime role because I left Fox, as you know, in January of 17.

00:27:55.820 Let's not even talk about what happened right after that.

00:27:57.800 I left Fox, and Tucker and I had become friends.

00:28:02.240 And Lachlan Murdoch asked me, who do you think should take your spot?

00:28:05.720 And I said, it absolutely has to be Tucker Carlson.

00:28:09.640 And he said, really?

00:28:11.020 And I said, absolutely, 100%.

00:28:13.080 I said, he's literally the only person who could do it.

00:28:15.760 And Tucker and I had a great talk.

00:28:17.060 I was in the hair salon.

00:28:17.920 I remember leaving Fox and getting my color done.

00:28:20.900 And he thanked me.

00:28:21.940 And I was like, of course.

00:28:22.880 You don't have to thank me.

00:28:23.580 You earned it.

00:28:24.540 You're the obvious choice.

00:28:25.700 This is before his career completely went juggernaut.

00:28:29.780 And we went on.

00:28:32.160 My career then hit the skids massively.

00:28:34.760 Tucker's completely reached lunar levels.

00:28:38.580 And then when the shit hit the fan for me at NBC, and I was the scourge of the nation,

00:28:44.160 being called a racist in every newspaper in America, all over online,

00:28:48.600 to the point where it was like active tears in my home every day.

00:28:51.800 But I said, Doug, you'll be fine.

00:28:53.040 No, no, it wasn't Doug.

00:28:57.740 Remember the Presbyterians.

00:28:58.960 Suffer down.

00:28:59.780 No, it was me.

00:29:01.340 There were almost no media figures who would stand up for me.

00:29:05.680 They didn't want to touch me with a 10-foot pole because I was totally toxic.

00:29:08.900 Now, I had friends in my life who were in media who were completely supportive.

00:29:12.340 Melissa Francis, I see you out there.

00:29:14.520 She's a dear friend, and she had my back.

00:29:16.120 But on the air, almost no one, literally almost no one, except for Tucker Carlson,

00:29:25.160 who got out there and kicked some NBC ass viciously like a boss.

00:29:33.540 And I have to tell you, when you're down on the mat, you know, bleeding,

00:29:39.260 and you have somebody do that for you, the gratitude is overwhelming.

00:29:46.220 And so I've had Tucker's back, and he's had my back,

00:29:49.780 and these are just a few of the reasons why I love Tucker Carlson.

00:29:55.800 Love.

00:29:56.360 I don't care what anybody says about him.

00:30:01.180 I will always have his back.

00:30:03.880 He's controversial.

00:30:04.940 So am I.

00:30:06.220 So are most people in media who take risks and do big swings for the fences.

00:30:10.140 Do we always hit the ball perfectly?

00:30:11.360 No, we don't.

00:30:12.160 But when you know a man's character, you know a man's character.

00:30:15.320 And Tucker is a great man.

00:30:19.120 Medicare's annual enrollment period is here, and let's be honest,

00:30:22.020 it's more confusing than ever.

00:30:23.680 Out-of-pocket costs going up for a lot of seniors,

00:30:26.520 and over a million people are on plans that are simply going away in January.

00:30:31.140 It might be tempting to ignore the flood of Medicare ads and mailers,

00:30:34.060 but doing nothing could mean that come next year,

00:30:36.900 the doctors you trust and the prescriptions you count on are no longer covered.

00:30:40.500 This is why you need to know about Chapter.

00:30:43.200 Chapter is the only Medicare advisor group who search every single plan nationwide,

00:30:48.800 and they will recommend what's truly best for you.

00:30:51.280 In fact, they've saved people an average of $1,100 a year.

00:30:55.000 They're fast, and their help is completely free.

00:30:58.040 In under 20 minutes, they will tell you if you're already in the right plan for you

00:31:01.400 or help you find one that actually works for your needs.

00:31:04.820 So don't wait.

00:31:05.780 Call Chapter now at 27 Medicare.

00:31:08.980 That's 27 Medicare, and get the peace of mind you deserve.

00:31:12.640 It's finally here.

00:31:18.740 All right, let's get this party started.

00:31:20.660 Megyn Kelly live on tour across America.

00:31:24.120 I was like, we have to go, and then after what happened to Charlie,

00:31:26.860 I'm like, we definitely have to go.

00:31:28.600 The best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to be out here,

00:31:31.760 to be unafraid, to not back down.

00:31:34.800 Stand firmly.

00:31:36.080 Do not waver on the truth.

00:31:38.120 Next stop, White Plains, Jacksonville, Miami, and Atlanta.

00:31:42.020 So go get your tickets right now before they sell out.

00:31:44.160 MegynKelley.com.

00:31:45.280 Presented by Y Refi and SiriusXM.

00:31:52.160 All right, I'm going to bring them out in one minute,

00:31:54.680 but first, enjoy this.

00:32:00.040 Hi, Tucker.

00:32:00.860 This is kind of surreal,

00:32:01.680 because I remember watching you in 2004 on CNN.

00:32:05.260 What?

00:32:05.560 I never worked at CNN.

00:32:08.480 There is no religious movement

00:32:10.380 that threatens peaceful civilizations more than this cult within Islam.

00:32:15.040 Have you heard of AI, dude?

00:32:17.320 I'm Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

00:32:20.180 Hello, thank you.

00:32:21.280 I never did that.

00:32:22.700 That's totally, that's AI, man.

00:32:24.540 Rachel Maddow joining us from New York.

00:32:27.160 Hi, Tucker.

00:32:27.720 Nice to see you.

00:32:28.820 Great to see you.

00:32:30.040 I've done a lot of shameful things.

00:32:31.500 I'm not going to pretend.

00:32:32.220 Dancing the cha-cha-cha, Tucker Carlson and his partner, Elena Grinenko.

00:32:40.100 I can't believe I just did that.

00:32:42.300 Joining me now with more, Tucker Carlson.

00:32:44.540 I had a great time in cable news.

00:32:45.780 I really enjoyed it.

00:32:47.000 People who are affecting your lives ought to have to answer pretty straightforward questions

00:32:50.100 about what they're doing.

00:32:51.320 What country is this?

00:32:53.020 Well, it's a country in a lockdown.

00:32:54.600 The whims of our political leaders are now unquestioned law.

00:32:59.300 Dissent has been banned.

00:33:01.020 Would you like me to read your quote?

00:33:02.320 That people who disagree with you ought to potentially go to jail?

00:33:05.000 You said that.

00:33:05.960 Yes, I'm a specious.

00:33:07.040 Okay.

00:33:07.740 You got me.

00:33:09.760 What are you?

00:33:11.640 The capital.

00:33:12.420 Can you just do that again?

00:33:13.360 I think you perfected it.

00:33:14.500 I liked everyone I worked for, including the people who fired me, which was everybody

00:33:22.600 I worked for.

00:33:24.000 Like, on what grounds could I be mad?

00:33:25.380 I don't know.

00:33:25.900 Like, some corporate person didn't like me?

00:33:28.100 Well, I don't like corporate people, so we're even.

00:33:31.540 It's just nice not to have anybody telling you what you can say.

00:33:35.040 The creation of COVID was probably not what they told us.

00:33:39.060 This question appears to be subtle.

00:33:41.360 It is quite pesky.

00:33:44.500 I'm asking at the behest of his family, and they think it was a murder.

00:33:49.120 I think now, you know, there's a need for people who are honest.

00:33:52.500 What motivates you to keep going?

00:33:54.540 Who the hell knows?

00:33:55.760 I don't know.

00:33:57.060 The audience can tell if you're trying to tell the truth, and that's kind of the main

00:34:01.900 thing they want, I think.

00:34:03.500 Don't patronize me and lie to me.

00:34:05.440 Just be straightforward.

00:34:08.420 Devil without a cause.

00:34:10.140 And I'm back with the beaver.

00:34:11.860 Hands and back.

00:34:12.880 Slash and burn.

00:34:13.900 And I'm strong.

00:34:15.020 Step back.

00:34:15.880 I'm no Rogaine in the probate.

00:34:18.800 Go.

00:34:19.380 Just one half the living room.

00:34:21.740 With a great big day.

00:34:22.800 Yeah.

00:34:23.400 Yeah.

00:34:23.880 Yeah.

00:34:24.320 Yeah.

00:34:24.460 Yeah.

00:34:24.780 Yeah.

00:34:25.080 Yeah.

00:34:25.360 Yeah.

00:34:25.680 Yeah.

00:34:25.980 Yeah.

00:34:26.360 Yeah.

00:34:26.580 Yeah.

00:34:26.860 Yeah.

00:34:26.960 Yeah.

00:34:27.460 Yeah.

00:34:27.700 Thank you.

00:34:28.540 Woo-hoo.

00:34:31.480 I'm so happy we are having this moment.

00:34:34.140 Well, I'm so grateful to be here.

00:34:36.360 Oh.

00:34:36.680 I didn't think I'd ever leave my house again.

00:34:38.640 We had Nazi week this week.

00:34:40.100 Yeah.

00:34:40.280 Yeah.

00:34:40.560 Yeah.

00:34:40.780 Yeah.

00:34:40.820 Yeah.

00:34:40.860 Yeah.

00:34:40.880 Yeah.

00:34:41.640 Yeah.

00:34:42.280 I have Nazi week about once a year.

00:34:44.580 Have you?

00:34:45.120 Have you?

00:34:45.400 For like 30 years.

00:34:46.660 And now I'm just like, I can't.

00:34:48.800 You have any big interviews lately?

00:34:50.940 How's everything going?

00:34:52.080 I literally went on a hunting trip and my wife had put Starlink in her hunting camp, which

00:34:56.360 I was totally opposed to, but there was a sense that like I needed to be in touch.

00:35:00.720 And my phone went off.

00:35:02.380 We're like on the Canadian border and hunting with my college roommates.

00:35:05.500 And all of a sudden I checked my phone and you have 400 texts.

00:35:08.540 And they're like, Nazi!

00:35:09.400 And I was like, oh, turning this off.

00:35:11.280 I still haven't replied yet.

00:35:13.080 Unsubscribed.

00:35:13.560 No, I've been through this before.

00:35:15.060 Yes.

00:35:15.460 Yes.

00:35:15.760 Of course you have.

00:35:16.560 I mean, everybody has.

00:35:17.440 As I was, you know, just recounting, I was a racist in literally every newspaper in the

00:35:21.820 country.

00:35:22.760 It's like, this is what they say.

00:35:23.900 They go to the worst possible place to paint anything you do as an attempt, I think, to

00:35:27.580 delegitimize you.

00:35:28.800 So let's talk about it.

00:35:29.880 Let's talk about why Nick Fuentes.

00:35:32.580 I interviewed Fuentes.

00:35:34.540 Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in

00:35:41.220 an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes like three weeks ago.

00:35:45.760 It mostly wasn't public, but Fuentes was attacking my father, a subject I have like literally

00:35:53.160 no sense of humor.

00:35:54.000 My father passed in March and, you know, was really kind of the patriarch, not kind of,

00:36:00.080 he was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family.

00:36:03.420 And, you know, some of what Fuentes was saying about my dad was, you know, true, okay, which

00:36:07.860 made it worse.

00:36:08.360 Um, but I was just so offended by that.

00:36:11.580 I couldn't deal with it.

00:36:12.780 And, uh, and my son and my wife.

00:36:16.120 So, you know, I was really mad at Fuentes and then I did an interview and just out of

00:36:20.800 the, I was so mad at like popped out and I attacked Nick Fuentes, uh, in this interview.

00:36:25.560 This was last month, I think ish.

00:36:28.060 And, um, and then I got all these calls from people saying, do you know anything about,

00:36:32.180 I don't know anything really about Nick Fuentes other than he's attacking my dad, my wife,

00:36:35.580 and my son.

00:36:36.520 And it was like, actually, Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator among

00:36:42.080 young men, like period.

00:36:43.860 He's got 5 million subscribers on Rumble.

00:36:45.720 It's bonkers.

00:36:46.800 And I didn't know any of, I mean, I'm 56, so I'll just like state the obvious, you know?

00:36:51.480 He's not our demo.

00:36:52.300 My oldest child is 31, like much older than Nick Fuentes.

00:36:54.880 So, I kind of missed a lot of this stuff.

00:36:57.320 I pride myself on not missing things.

00:36:58.600 I totally missed that.

00:37:00.180 Really?

00:37:01.080 And then it turns out that, you know, he has no advertisers.

00:37:04.440 They've been trying to cancel him since freshman year in college.

00:37:06.920 Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut him down freshman year in college and it didn't work.

00:37:11.200 In fact, it had the opposite effect.

00:37:12.700 So, I was like, hmm.

00:37:14.240 And so, I talked to a million people I know, like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes to

00:37:17.900 hear what, like, what is this actually?

00:37:21.100 Uh, and so, I decided to do it.

00:37:23.840 And I thought it would be controversial.

00:37:26.080 I didn't think it would become what it's become.

00:37:29.220 Um, I'm not going to offer any defense other than, you know, it's kind of interesting.

00:37:33.280 I've literally, I mean, I've interviewed anybody.

00:37:35.000 I've been doing this for 34 years.

00:37:36.660 So, I've interviewed everybody.

00:37:38.240 Most of them bad people, to be honest.

00:37:40.120 Right.

00:37:40.180 I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil War.

00:37:46.520 All cannibals, every single one of them.

00:37:48.120 It tasted human flesh.

00:37:49.700 And first of all, I kind of like them.

00:37:51.040 I'm just being honest because I like people.

00:37:52.940 Don't agree with cannibalism.

00:37:54.620 Pretty opposed.

00:37:55.840 For the record.

00:37:56.460 But I'm just that way.

00:37:57.360 I just like people.

00:37:58.180 And the closer, if you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, like, it's hard to not see

00:38:01.660 the human in the person, even if he's a cannibal.

00:38:03.420 Did the Liberian cannibal smell good?

00:38:05.960 Kind of rank, to be honest.

00:38:07.640 Actually, during the interview, this is, I'll never forget this.

00:38:11.020 I was in Africa for, to cover the Civil War.

00:38:13.500 And I'm interviewing this guy.

00:38:14.640 And he was like, you know, commander butt naked.

00:38:17.340 Or it wasn't actually commander butt naked, who was a famous militia leader during that

00:38:20.740 war, who fought, needless to say, butt naked.

00:38:23.040 But I'm interviewing this guy.

00:38:24.280 And his cell phone goes off.

00:38:25.400 And it's the Woody Woodpecker theme song.

00:38:28.600 Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

00:38:30.480 And I was like, oh my gosh, you're human.

00:38:31.920 It was, like, hilarious.

00:38:32.500 Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial.

00:38:35.960 Like, I interview people who are hated, and in some cases, like, demonstrably evil.

00:38:40.440 And I ask them, why did you do that?

00:38:41.900 And what, you know, what's your account of yourself?

00:38:44.260 Like, tell me who you are.

00:38:45.020 What do you believe?

00:38:46.880 And I wanted to, that was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Fulentz.

00:38:49.600 He's like, what is this?

00:38:50.880 Tell me.

00:38:52.120 You know, I'll give you two hours.

00:38:53.600 I have only watched your clips for, like, a minute long.

00:38:55.900 I want to hear, like, why don't you describe what you think?

00:38:58.080 Because I think that's the small role that I play, which is to get documentary evidence

00:39:03.540 of people describing what they think.

00:39:04.740 I did it with Putin.

00:39:05.840 I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world.

00:39:08.360 Because I'm interested.

00:39:09.840 Not because I agree with him, because I think it's interesting.

00:39:11.840 And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nick Fuentes.

00:39:16.020 And it's this.

00:39:16.640 And I said it, which is, I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country

00:39:20.780 from Belgium to Congo to Israel, because they're foreign countries.

00:39:25.320 Yes.

00:39:25.840 And I'll never give up that right.

00:39:28.620 In fact, it's an obligation, I would say.

00:39:31.080 And to be reasonable about it and not, you know, but what's in America's interest?

00:39:34.440 Totally legitimate.

00:39:35.000 It is totally illegitimate and very specifically unchristian to attack people for their DNA.

00:39:43.720 Like, I hate this group.

00:39:45.140 You wanted him to hear that.

00:39:46.860 He has.

00:39:47.340 We all have to hear that.

00:39:49.220 And because that is the basis of Western civilization.

00:39:53.760 Western civilization is derived from the New Testament.

00:39:57.260 It is based on Christian ethics.

00:39:58.820 And the core difference between the West and the rest of the world, not just Israel, but

00:40:03.140 every other country, is that we don't believe in collective punishment because we don't believe

00:40:07.380 in blood guilt.

00:40:08.480 We don't believe that you were born guilty.

00:40:10.720 And we also don't believe that you were born virtuous.

00:40:12.240 We believe that God created every person as an individual.

00:40:15.720 God did not create communities.

00:40:18.340 Every woman gives birth to a human being.

00:40:20.640 And every person has the spark of God inside him.

00:40:23.300 I mean, that's what we believe as Christians.

00:40:25.000 And every person has the possibility of redemption.

00:40:27.760 And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form.

00:40:34.020 But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of

00:40:38.500 Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians.

00:40:41.900 He was murdering Christians.

00:40:44.040 He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament.

00:40:47.200 But he was on the way to go murder more Christians than he met Jesus.

00:40:50.500 And then he became the great evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament.

00:40:54.440 So, like, he's my personal hero.

00:40:55.700 But he's also living testament to the truth about people, which is each one of us was born

00:41:02.120 in as an individual, and we will face God alone at the end to account for our lives.

00:41:06.960 And along the way, there is always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you

00:41:10.960 look like, or what your religion is, that you can change and that you can be saved by Jesus.

00:41:17.460 That is Christianity in three sentences.

00:41:19.560 And so, that is reflected, even for people who aren't Christians, that is reflected in

00:41:26.420 an ethical framework and a legal code that is the only truly unusual and great thing about

00:41:32.660 the West, which is we do not punish the innocent.

00:41:36.800 We only punish the guilty.

00:41:39.500 We do not…

00:41:40.400 You commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail.

00:41:42.940 We don't execute your cousins.

00:41:44.720 We don't commit genocide against your whole tribe.

00:41:47.360 We punish you because you did it.

00:41:50.220 We treat each person as an individual.

00:41:52.400 That is Western civilization.

00:41:53.920 That's a Christian understanding.

00:41:55.640 It does not derive from any other religion.

00:41:57.960 Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim.

00:42:02.480 And that's the base of our justice system, which, again, even non-Christians appreciate

00:42:05.440 that's why they move here, because it's self-evidently more humane.

00:42:09.100 That's where the idea of human rights come from.

00:42:10.880 They're not collective rights.

00:42:12.320 It's not that your tribe has rights and his tribe does, and it's you as an individual

00:42:15.140 have rights.

00:42:15.560 And that idea is not only being challenged in our country, it's being disregarded.

00:42:24.900 It's disregarded in DEI.

00:42:27.040 It's disregarded in affirmative action.

00:42:28.920 Identity politics is a refutation of that idea.

00:42:31.440 We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for

00:42:35.420 the same reason.

00:42:36.500 That is anti-Western.

00:42:37.860 It's evil.

00:42:38.420 And it leads, in the end, inexorably to genocide.

00:42:45.300 That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s under the Nazis.

00:42:51.280 It's the root idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994.

00:42:55.220 It's the root idea, just saying, behind what's happening in Gaza right now, where it's like,

00:43:00.140 we're going to kill the kids too.

00:43:01.120 We don't care.

00:43:02.320 And we're going to, by the way, move everyone out because they're a people that is fundamentally

00:43:07.200 opposed to us.

00:43:09.060 Yeah, well, I'm not for that.

00:43:10.560 Sorry.

00:43:11.060 Because that's not the Western understanding of justice.

00:43:13.360 We punish the guilty alone.

00:43:15.280 We do not punish the innocent.

00:43:17.180 Period.

00:43:18.740 And that's not racism.

00:43:21.000 And in fact, it's the answer to racism.

00:43:23.800 It's the answer to anti-Semitism.

00:43:25.720 It's why anti-Semitism is wrong.

00:43:28.020 It's why racism is wrong.

00:43:29.920 No, you're not better than me.

00:43:32.320 No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born.

00:43:35.000 You're the same as me because we were both created by God.

00:43:38.280 Period.

00:43:39.500 So the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes, any tribe, including my tribe,

00:43:46.860 is prima facie immoral.

00:43:48.800 And yet, it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics.

00:43:54.220 And I reject it.

00:43:55.120 I reject it when it manifests as anti-Semitism.

00:43:57.260 I reject it when it manifests as anti-white racism, which has been pretty common.

00:44:01.540 I know we're not supposed to say it, but it's real.

00:44:03.380 But I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are.

00:44:06.880 I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral.

00:44:09.520 It's anti-Christian.

00:44:10.700 And that is the destruction of the West.

00:44:12.880 And so when I see these people, we're defending Western.

00:44:14.640 When Mark Levin's like, we're defending Western civilization.

00:44:16.800 Or Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're

00:44:20.260 Palestinian so we can defend Western civilization.

00:44:22.940 I'm like, no, no, no.

00:44:23.940 You're the enemy of Western civilization because collective punishment is the enemy of Western

00:44:29.600 civilization.

00:44:30.720 Period.

00:44:32.140 Wow.

00:44:34.040 That's what I wanted to say.

00:44:35.500 And I said it.

00:44:36.400 And they called me a Nazi.

00:44:37.660 And I'm like, actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason.

00:44:42.180 But wait, what I hear you saying, sort of, is that you wanted to reach him.

00:44:48.040 You wanted him.

00:44:48.800 Of course I want to.

00:44:49.420 I want to reach him and everyone watching.

00:44:51.040 But were you trying to help him in a way?

00:44:54.680 I want to tell the truth as I understand it with the ever-present knowledge that I'm kind

00:45:00.160 of a buffoon and I'm often wrong.

00:45:01.700 I supported the Iraq War.

00:45:03.040 I remind myself of that every single day.

00:45:05.620 I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors and judgments.

00:45:08.580 I've been carried away by enthusiasm and particularly by anger.

00:45:11.160 However, many times in my life.

00:45:12.960 So with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay?

00:45:17.320 You always have to remember that because I'm not God.

00:45:19.780 I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can in every venue, in

00:45:24.580 every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can.

00:45:28.480 And that's why Nazi Week doesn't bother me anymore because I'm not a Nazi.

00:45:31.980 I'm a Christian.

00:45:32.900 Of course.

00:45:34.380 So what about, I don't want to spend the whole time on this, but I am curious, the main

00:45:39.780 criticism, as I understand it, has been, well, yes, platforming.

00:45:42.740 They say that.

00:45:43.200 I don't accept platforming as a valid objection.

00:45:45.940 What is that a verb, by the way?

00:45:47.380 You take a noun and you make it into a verb and nobody says anything?

00:45:50.740 As a former editor, I say no.

00:45:52.360 Yeah, agreed.

00:45:53.540 Honestly, but like, as far as I know, Nick Fuentes hasn't eaten anyone.

00:45:57.200 You know?

00:45:57.360 I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people and he was platformed by Diane Sawyer.

00:46:01.240 Dude, we have a member, a sitting member of Congress.

00:46:03.160 I spoke to the Speaker of the House about this today.

00:46:04.900 We have a sitting member of Congress from Florida called Randy Fine, who has literally

00:46:09.340 texted or put on Twitter, we should kill them all.

00:46:12.760 Every single one.

00:46:14.060 Someone texted a picture of literally of a dead baby and he laughs at it.

00:46:17.880 And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military committing

00:46:21.940 genocide and that's cool?

00:46:24.320 It's not cool.

00:46:25.120 And let's just be honest, that is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said.

00:46:32.520 Period.

00:46:34.320 So the main pushback has been when you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan, etc., these

00:46:40.300 journalists went after them, like exposed the terrible things.

00:46:43.540 And Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things.

00:46:47.960 Big time.

00:46:48.520 Including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all, in my opinion.

00:46:51.240 Yeah.

00:46:51.460 I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust.

00:46:54.480 Likening it to baking cookies in the oven and there's no way you could have gotten to

00:46:59.580 six million, seems to be his theory.

00:47:01.240 He seems to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.

00:47:06.360 He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms.

00:47:11.820 So what do you say to those people?

00:47:13.540 Why didn't you raise any of that?

00:47:15.820 You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it.

00:47:18.880 You're not my editor.

00:47:20.260 Buzz off.

00:47:21.180 I mean, I don't know.

00:47:22.040 You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes?

00:47:23.260 I'll give you a cell.

00:47:23.940 Call him.

00:47:24.720 And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever.

00:47:27.520 That's up to you.

00:47:28.200 I got the same thing with Putin.

00:47:29.120 Why aren't you yelling at him?

00:47:30.760 Okay.

00:47:31.340 Why?

00:47:31.820 So I can show that I'm a good person?

00:47:33.860 I care about what my wife thinks, my children think, and God thinks.

00:47:37.100 And that's it.

00:47:37.880 I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you.

00:47:41.000 You may think I'm a terrible person.

00:47:42.440 Okay.

00:47:42.860 I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand what people think.

00:47:47.880 And I'm committed to that.

00:47:50.240 And if you don't like it, don't watch.

00:47:51.580 That's my view.

00:47:52.380 But that doesn't mean that I share the views.

00:47:54.040 I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes.

00:47:57.880 I mean, please.

00:47:59.600 And I don't, you know, I'm not telling them even in private because I'm not into that at all.

00:48:03.000 But I will say, just since you brought it up, one thing that did bother me was the Usha Vance thing.

00:48:09.500 And I did actually, I generally make it a practice not to be like, you said this and da-da-da-da-da.

00:48:15.000 And the internet tells me or, you know, the ADL says, you said this.

00:48:18.100 It's like, why don't you just tell me what you do think?

00:48:20.640 Like, why don't you speak for yourself because we're adults?

00:48:23.500 That is my approach with everybody, whether I like him or don't like him.

00:48:27.220 But the Usha Vance thing did upset me because I know Usha Vance and I love Usha Vance.

00:48:31.220 And I was really offended by that, just personally because I know her, right, in a normal way.

00:48:37.380 And I did think about that.

00:48:38.720 Like, that pissed me off.

00:48:40.480 And I'm just being as honest as I can be.

00:48:43.600 I didn't want to repeat it.

00:48:45.080 Yeah.

00:48:45.340 No, you're always in that position.

00:48:46.480 Actually, you know.

00:48:46.920 As a journalist, you're always there like, do I repeat it?

00:48:48.880 Well, if you know the person.

00:48:49.780 And spread it?

00:48:51.280 Kind of.

00:48:52.040 And it's like so wounding.

00:48:53.700 And he attacked my wife, as I said.

00:48:56.220 So I don't know.

00:48:58.940 I'm sensitive on this.

00:48:59.960 So let me ask you this.

00:49:00.380 Maybe I made the wrong call, by the way, probably.

00:49:02.180 So now having done it, what do you think of him?

00:49:05.320 About Fuentes?

00:49:06.120 Yeah.

00:49:08.980 I think, it's so funny.

00:49:13.640 I did not make Nick Fuentes.

00:49:16.400 Nick Fuentes is, well, he's just enormously gifted as a broadcaster.

00:49:21.140 I mean, it's unbelievable.

00:49:22.340 His talent is, I mean, I have done that job.

00:49:25.180 Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously.

00:49:27.640 But I mean, I've sat in front of a camera and talked.

00:49:29.760 He's really good at it.

00:49:31.540 He has not been canceled.

00:49:32.900 He can't be canceled.

00:49:34.740 So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of like, what place does he occupy?

00:49:40.080 What does he say about our society?

00:49:41.420 And I'm not making excuses for anybody else's views.

00:49:46.640 I'm just saying as a factual matter, if this is the most popular person among young men, young white men, then we need to start thinking about why that is.

00:49:57.040 And we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which is destroy them, actually.

00:50:04.200 And no one wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever.

00:50:10.240 No one ever wants to repent.

00:50:11.540 They all want to cast stones.

00:50:12.860 They don't see the plank in their own eye.

00:50:14.340 This is including me.

00:50:15.020 It's just humans are like this.

00:50:16.580 And they want to be like, Nazi.

00:50:17.880 And it's like, oh, yeah, okay.

00:50:19.500 Great.

00:50:20.780 But like, how did this happen?

00:50:22.980 Why are they listening to him?

00:50:24.080 Kind of.

00:50:24.560 And part of the reason is because the Republican Party completely betrayed its voters by obsessing over Israel.

00:50:32.540 That's just a fact.

00:50:33.320 Like, what is this?

00:50:33.920 It's a country of nine million people.

00:50:36.120 I'm not against Israel.

00:50:37.480 I visited on vacation.

00:50:38.860 I've always liked Jerusalem.

00:50:40.000 It's my favorite city in the world.

00:50:41.120 I'm not against Israel.

00:50:42.300 But like, why is that the center of our conversation?

00:50:44.600 It's nine million people, no resources.

00:50:47.060 The only strategic value Israel has is the extent to which we have to defend Israel.

00:50:51.580 But take that out.

00:50:52.660 There's no value at all.

00:50:53.800 I'm not against it.

00:50:54.660 I'm just saying, like, we're a country of 350 million people.

00:50:57.720 We're the most important country in the world.

00:50:59.500 And our politics is, and every, practically every member of Congress spends all day talking about Israel.

00:51:04.320 And if you're a normal person, you're like, I don't hate Israel.

00:51:06.560 I certainly don't hate Jews.

00:51:08.100 But what the hell is this?

00:51:09.480 But wait.

00:51:09.780 And then it's like, shut up.

00:51:10.720 You can't talk about it.

00:51:11.780 Why?

00:51:12.400 Clarify what you mean.

00:51:13.260 Because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men.

00:51:17.060 I was with you.

00:51:17.640 Both parties have abandoned young men, especially Democrats, though.

00:51:20.180 For so many other reasons.

00:51:22.120 But why Israel?

00:51:23.020 You're saying the focus?

00:51:23.800 Because all the energy.

00:51:25.200 Yeah.

00:51:25.500 I mean, look.

00:51:26.380 Trump is elected.

00:51:27.700 I campaign for him.

00:51:30.080 And I love Trump.

00:51:31.260 I just want to say that.

00:51:32.460 And I talked to him the other day.

00:51:33.540 And I love Trump.

00:51:34.480 And I've known him for 25 years.

00:51:37.400 And I, I mean, I could write many books on Trump.

00:51:40.020 And they would be positive, basically.

00:51:41.820 But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit?

00:51:44.800 Bibi.

00:51:45.120 Then he comes again.

00:51:45.780 Then he comes again.

00:51:46.360 And it's like, the energy of the administration and of the entire U.S. government is all of

00:51:52.080 a sudden about Iran.

00:51:53.200 A war with Iran?

00:51:54.260 Really?

00:51:55.160 How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime?

00:51:58.900 Zero.

00:51:59.280 Because that's the number.

00:51:59.980 How many people do you know who've died of a drug OD?

00:52:02.300 Some.

00:52:03.020 Maybe you have a nephew who did.

00:52:04.480 So, like, what is this?

00:52:05.720 I know you want to have regime change in Iran.

00:52:07.820 I'm not mad at Israel at all.

00:52:09.980 It doesn't, I'm not actually mad at Israel.

00:52:12.240 I'm mad at our leaders for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's

00:52:18.300 country.

00:52:19.060 And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government

00:52:26.600 works for you because you own the government because it's a democratic republic.

00:52:31.160 Like, what the hell is going on?

00:52:32.660 And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi, you're an anti-Semite.

00:52:36.000 Well, actually, I'm not.

00:52:37.300 And I'm in a really great place to say that because I actually, I'm really, I'm not.

00:52:42.220 And no matter how many times they say that, it, like, doesn't bother me because it's, I

00:52:46.000 think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me because I'm pretty reasonable.

00:52:50.820 Like, who, who would disagree with what I'm saying?

00:52:52.640 I'm just, maybe you do.

00:52:54.880 Okay.

00:52:55.300 You do, but you do.

00:52:57.340 You disagree with what I'm saying.

00:52:58.200 But like, what is the answer?

00:53:00.060 Why would the U.S.

00:53:01.180 government spend all this time?

00:53:04.980 No, I'm just a sincere question.

00:53:06.880 Why is the overwhelming majority of the U.S.

00:53:09.540 Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby?

00:53:12.380 Like what?

00:53:13.780 Like, what is the answer?

00:53:14.960 From APAC.

00:53:15.320 Why is that okay?

00:53:16.620 And they want, they don't, they want to prevent you from asking that question because there

00:53:22.380 really isn't a good answer other than shut up.

00:53:25.320 And if there's, if that's the only answer, I just, by my temperament and my age, I'm just

00:53:31.160 not going to shut up because that's not hate.

00:53:33.240 It's sincere.

00:53:34.060 What is that?

00:53:34.800 What do you make of the folks who say Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East?

00:53:38.940 They're in a very tough neighborhood.

00:53:40.140 They have our shared Western values.

00:53:41.980 They have our back.

00:53:43.280 We have their back.

00:53:44.220 And that we have much more in common with the people in Israel than we do with some

00:53:48.040 of these surrounding countries.

00:53:49.820 I would say, what are you talking about?

00:53:51.580 Who are pushing things like Sharia law, which I heard you comment on too.

00:53:54.540 What's happening in Gaza, which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists.

00:54:02.780 They've said that too.

00:54:03.960 This is not a left-wing talking point.

00:54:06.740 Have you read?

00:54:07.800 Guys are fiery tonight.

00:54:09.640 It's just a fact.

00:54:10.480 Read Ben-Gavir, Smotrich, on this.

00:54:13.780 These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying, starve them out.

00:54:19.220 Kill them.

00:54:19.840 Kill their children.

00:54:21.000 This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel saying this out loud.

00:54:24.800 That is not Western.

00:54:25.940 That's Eastern.

00:54:27.100 That is totally incompatible with Western civilization.

00:54:30.600 We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances or else we're as bad as the people we're fighting.

00:54:38.260 And that, by the way, the U.S. government has done the same and I've complained about it a lot.

00:54:43.320 And no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government.

00:54:47.000 So why is it verboten to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away?

00:54:51.060 What the hell are you talking about?

00:54:52.600 That is a great question.

00:54:53.760 I just believe in the principle.

00:54:54.780 And second, tell me why they're our most important ally.

00:54:59.540 Right down the road, you've got countries that have, like, the bulk of the world's energy supply.

00:55:04.400 That's not an important ally?

00:55:06.080 What?

00:55:06.880 If you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America, you don't want to make unnecessary enemies.

00:55:12.340 I like Israel for the eighth time.

00:55:14.680 How many people have been there on vacation just because they like it?

00:55:17.040 I have.

00:55:17.480 I took my kids.

00:55:18.360 I'm not against it.

00:55:19.180 I don't want it to get hurt.

00:55:21.000 But from a geostrategic point of view, your duty, if you're running the State Department or running the White House or a member of Congress, is to serve the people who elected you in your country.

00:55:31.400 So you need to think seriously, as you do with your own children, what's good for them?

00:55:35.380 And one thing that's good for them is being allies with countries that have a lot of energy because it makes civilization run.

00:55:41.700 That's why.

00:55:42.980 Et cetera, et cetera.

00:55:43.800 So, like, that doesn't even make any sense.

00:55:47.260 Okay.

00:55:47.620 I think we've covered the Israel thing.

00:55:50.120 I mean, those are not Nazi views.

00:55:52.760 No, those are not Nazi views.

00:55:53.140 This is why they hated Trump from day one.

00:55:54.900 When he said America first, a lot of smart people thought, whoa, if you put America first, then you're going to put Israel second.

00:56:02.600 And that's why they hated Trump.

00:56:04.060 That's why they hate me.

00:56:05.660 But most people in both parties, at least conceptually, will agree with that because there's no real argument against putting your own country first because that's the purpose of your government.

00:56:15.300 But here's my own view.

00:56:16.520 You know, so here we are.

00:56:18.180 We're 20 minutes in.

00:56:19.940 And we've already devoted a lot of time to the topic of Israel and whether somebody's an anti-Semite and all that.

00:56:24.620 And I just feel like this is taking over the discussion on the right.

00:56:28.500 It's taking – and it shouldn't be.

00:56:30.020 We have our own problems here at home.

00:56:32.580 With all due respect, I care about Israel.

00:56:34.700 Israel, I've given Israel a wide berth as it's conducted its response to the attack, the horrible attack that happened on 10-7.

00:56:42.160 But it's been two years now.

00:56:43.980 President Trump has managed to wrap this up, for the time being at least.

00:56:46.600 And we really have our own problems that we need to worry about.

00:56:49.760 Yes, you think?

00:56:50.560 So let's talk about some of our problems.

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01:00:15.000 What do you think of Zoram Mamdani?

01:00:17.080 And what do you think of Jay Jones winning in Virginia, notwithstanding what he said?

01:00:25.940 Well, that just kind of tells you, Jay Jones is a big Israel guy, by the way, which maybe is why he's not the subject of Nazi Week.

01:00:31.200 But, I mean, of course, right?

01:00:35.300 This is a guy, the new attorney general of Virginia, the chief law enforcement officer in the Commonwealth of Virginia, who fantasized and then not only fantasized, defended the fantasies of murdering someone else's kids with a gun because the parents of those kids disagreed with him.

01:00:48.800 This is the collective punishment that I'm talking about.

01:00:51.360 This is the brain virus that's taking over our country, that whole groups are guilty.

01:00:55.640 This is the root of, again, of anti-Semitism, of the anti-white stuff, of the tribalism that will destroy this society and every other society that falls prey to it.

01:01:03.780 And he, as a chief law enforcement officer, whose core duty is to administer the law impartially, fairly, evenly to every American citizen, has already admitted that he's basically a Hutu.

01:01:17.280 And no one seems to care.

01:01:19.440 Okay?

01:01:19.680 So that's, like, the scariest thing I can imagine.

01:01:21.420 Honestly, that's the scariest thing.

01:01:22.300 As for Mamdani, I mean, you know, there are a lot of things to say, I won't go on about it, but I just found it, speaking of Israel, taking over the conversation, this is a guy who said in public and then defended a statement that we're going to tax whites more because they're white?

01:01:37.960 Yeah.

01:01:38.500 And nobody cared.

01:01:39.560 They're like, oh, but he doesn't have the right views on Israel.

01:01:41.820 What?

01:01:42.200 Again, be quiet about Israel.

01:01:44.880 I don't care.

01:01:45.680 I don't have to care.

01:01:46.720 I'm not bad for not caring.

01:01:47.800 So, shh.

01:01:48.580 What I care about is my country.

01:01:49.720 I don't think they think he has the right views on Israel.

01:01:51.060 I don't think he does have the right views on Israel, but I don't care about his views on Israel because we're not in Israel.

01:01:55.360 We're in the United States.

01:01:56.580 And he said, I'm going to tax white people more because they're white.

01:02:03.300 And, like, nobody cared.

01:02:05.720 And it's like, what the hell?

01:02:07.400 Bottom line, without getting all worked up, I will say it's our biggest city.

01:02:12.120 It's 8 million people.

01:02:13.100 Cities are incredibly complex organisms.

01:02:15.080 It takes centuries to build.

01:02:16.660 My ancestors helped build New York, by the way, but can be destroyed very, very quickly.

01:02:20.280 Look at Johannesburg, 30 years, and it's a husk.

01:02:23.100 It's a joke, and it was a beautiful city.

01:02:25.240 Look at Gary, Indiana, Detroit.

01:02:26.800 Look at almost all of our cities, Baltimore.

01:02:28.760 And that could happen to New York City very soon.

01:02:31.160 In fact, it will.

01:02:31.840 I have a child who lives here.

01:02:32.780 Call me today.

01:02:33.340 I was like, I'm leaving.

01:02:34.260 Not an ideological person.

01:02:35.520 It's just like, we know where this is going because it's happened in dozens and dozens.

01:02:40.200 In fact, it happened to almost every single big city we had.

01:02:42.920 And now it's happening to our biggest city, and it's just the greatest tragedy.

01:02:45.900 And I feel like it doesn't have to happen.

01:02:50.260 It doesn't have to happen.

01:02:51.920 It's just like your house.

01:02:52.940 If you allow, as the father, as the patriarch in your family, chaos to break out, and you

01:02:57.240 don't settle it down and set limits and say, I mean, I would say my family, you know, I'm

01:03:02.800 all about no.

01:03:03.360 That's my job.

01:03:04.020 I don't like saying no, but that's my duty.

01:03:06.160 Someone has to be like, no, we're not doing that.

01:03:08.540 We're not, you know, pissing in the street.

01:03:10.440 We're not having sex in an ATM vestibule.

01:03:13.940 We're not pushing people in front of subway cars.

01:03:15.820 We're not smoking drugs in the park.

01:03:18.040 Like, how about no?

01:03:19.360 And because no one is willing to say that, it just inexorably falls apart.

01:03:23.760 And I think it's the saddest thing I've ever seen.

01:03:27.580 How do you think, what letter grade would you give Donald Trump so far?

01:03:36.180 Well, as always, I just give him, like, huge style points.

01:03:40.440 He's just hilarious.

01:03:42.320 He's just unbelievable.

01:03:45.040 He's just, and he never gets credit for it, you know?

01:03:48.940 People always say Trump is always seeking credit for everything, but in my view, as a

01:03:53.580 middle-aged man, every middle-aged man wants to be thought of as funny.

01:03:57.120 And the core unmet desire in the heart of every long-married man is to have his wife laugh

01:04:01.660 at his jokes.

01:04:03.160 And it, of course, it doesn't happen.

01:04:04.680 It can't happen.

01:04:05.380 It's some rule of nature.

01:04:06.960 It's like Sisyphus.

01:04:08.640 Yes, the rock never gets to the top for some reason, but you keep pushing it.

01:04:12.440 And I feel like Trump is a victim of that very, very sad, very rarely recognized syndrome,

01:04:19.340 the unrecognized comedian syndrome.

01:04:22.140 I think he's freaking hilarious.

01:04:24.300 I just do.

01:04:24.700 He's amazing.

01:04:25.160 I think sealing the borders is a wonderful achievement.

01:04:32.860 Yep.

01:04:33.480 Yes.

01:04:35.440 I think, you know, you could argue both ways on sending troops to cities and how it was

01:04:42.060 done and will it work or whatever, but just saying out loud that crime and disorder are

01:04:47.560 the most basic enemies of civilization is so important.

01:04:50.820 And it's like, you can say you're civilized, but if your wife is getting mugged, if your

01:04:56.640 kids are afraid to go to school, you're not civilized.

01:04:58.800 You're living like animals.

01:04:59.900 Even animals don't live like that.

01:05:01.200 So just to have him say that is hugely reassuring to me and hugely important.

01:05:07.600 Telling the truth is often more important than really doing anything.

01:05:11.820 And then I would say tariffs kind of open question.

01:05:14.000 I'm certainly rooting for him.

01:05:15.260 But the foreign policy stuff, it's like every president struggles with this.

01:05:18.960 You just get swarmed.

01:05:20.260 And it seems so important and imminent.

01:05:21.920 We have to do this.

01:05:23.040 And like, actually, I have found in life, a lot of the time it's like, don't just do

01:05:28.680 something, sit there.

01:05:30.080 Like, actually, don't take action is often the wisest response to what appears to be a

01:05:34.000 crisis.

01:05:34.400 Just calm down.

01:05:35.140 What do you think about threatening boots on the ground in Nigeria?

01:05:39.100 I mean, it's like deranged, you know?

01:05:41.340 No.

01:05:42.180 Have you been to Nigeria?

01:05:43.340 I have.

01:05:43.980 No.

01:05:44.120 Yeah, no.

01:05:45.240 I mean, they're slaughtering Christians.

01:05:46.560 Yeah, they are.

01:05:47.560 Christians are being killed in a lot of different places, and I hate it.

01:05:52.440 But boots on the ground may not be the right way to do it.

01:05:55.920 I just, you know, I'm 56, so I was, you know, what, 32 or something when 9-11 happened.

01:06:03.000 And I spent the next 10 years, like, traveling to all the places and seeing all the stuff.

01:06:06.880 And I can just tell you what you already know, which is our response just was totally

01:06:10.780 counterproductive in a very deep sense, counterproductive.

01:06:14.020 And really bad for America.

01:06:15.280 I'm sad about that.

01:06:15.900 I supported it.

01:06:16.640 I'm not blaming anyone.

01:06:17.560 But that's just true.

01:06:19.060 So we haven't figured out how to make things better by inserting troops.

01:06:24.400 You can certainly overthrow people.

01:06:26.840 You can, you know, you can force Hitler to kill himself.

01:06:31.000 You can make the, you know, emperor resign or whatever.

01:06:34.260 You can do those things.

01:06:35.100 You can do the kind of obvious things.

01:06:38.640 But the fine motor skills are tough, are really tough.

01:06:41.700 Like, how do you change attitudes and tribalism?

01:06:43.880 I mean, I think in a specific case of Nigeria, I was talking to a friend of mine who lives

01:06:46.420 in Nigeria yesterday, who said, you know, it's anti-Christian.

01:06:49.980 Of course, Christians get martyred all the time, including in Azerbaijan.

01:06:54.320 But in this case, it's primarily tribal, different tribes.

01:07:00.200 But whatever.

01:07:00.800 It's complex.

01:07:01.540 I don't, you know, I don't know.

01:07:03.140 Doesn't seem like a good morass to start.

01:07:05.740 Speaking of which, Dick Cheney died.

01:07:08.120 I knew him well.

01:07:10.660 How do you think he'll be remembered?

01:07:14.280 You know, probably, I mean, I'm just really loathed to, I have great respect for death.

01:07:19.980 I've seen a lot of it and I'm opposed to it.

01:07:23.020 I will just say that.

01:07:24.320 And, but I have reverence for it and I just don't, I, it's, if you're not like back on

01:07:30.800 your heels a little bit in the face of death and just acknowledging that there are mysteries

01:07:34.460 no human mind can comprehend and sort of humble in the face of it, then you're not really

01:07:39.960 in touch with your best parts.

01:07:41.800 It's not, you're not fully human.

01:07:42.840 So I would, I just don't criticize people when they die.

01:07:45.480 And I will say one charitable thing, which he was an amazing fly caster.

01:07:48.940 Amazing.

01:07:50.020 He could drop a dry fly in the top of a beer bottle at like 40 feet, which if you're a dry

01:07:55.460 fly fisherman and I am, is like ridiculous.

01:07:57.900 Standing in a boat.

01:07:59.380 So, and I also, I've been hunting with him.

01:08:01.960 Good shot.

01:08:02.680 Um, when he wasn't, when he wasn't drinking, um, he was, no, well, he did shoot Harry Whittington

01:08:09.560 in the face.

01:08:11.100 Um, but, but like if that had been a quail and not a lawyer from Austin, I think the quail

01:08:16.520 would have been dead.

01:08:17.540 Um, Harry took quite a few pellets from the 28, uh, that day, tough man, by the way, lived

01:08:22.300 another 20 years, but, um, he raised a really repulsive daughter, which I think is bad.

01:08:28.400 And just on the downside, you know, I've got a bunch of daughters, they're just fine people

01:08:33.180 and I'm more proud of them than of anything in my life.

01:08:35.720 And if I had a daughter, you know, like Liz Cheney, I don't believe in suicide, but I

01:08:41.100 would consider it.

01:08:41.920 Oh, wow.

01:08:44.760 Okay.

01:08:46.140 While we're on the subject of Republicans, we talked to Trump, we talked Cheney.

01:08:49.940 No, in the way that a father feels responsible for having like a warmonger daughter, like

01:08:54.200 your daughter worships violence?

01:08:55.820 Like what?

01:08:56.540 How many daughters worship violence?

01:08:57.880 Not a lot.

01:08:58.360 So if yours is, you know, it's on you.

01:09:03.020 Uh, JD Vance, is he 48?

01:09:08.200 Um, so a lot of the Nazi week was really about attacking JD.

01:09:12.560 Like how could you, I'm not an advisor to JD Vance, by the way, I'm a podcaster, just

01:09:16.540 to be clear.

01:09:17.700 Um, I'm the least Bengali-like person you've ever met.

01:09:20.580 I can't plan a birthday dinner.

01:09:22.240 I'm not strategic in my thinking.

01:09:23.600 I'm the last person you would go to, like, what do we do?

01:09:25.940 I don't know.

01:09:26.580 Um, so I'm not, no, it's true.

01:09:30.740 And so I'm, I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow.

01:09:33.020 So like no one asked me for my strategic advice ever, and no one should, including JD.

01:09:37.240 So I have no role in that.

01:09:38.940 But I love JD as a man, and I find it amazing the guilt by association.

01:09:46.320 Like you know Tucker Carlson, therefore you're a Nazi too.

01:09:49.740 It's like, again, that's going back for the eighth time to the kind of thinking that will

01:09:54.340 wreck this country, and that is not Western, which is collective guilt.

01:09:58.460 JD didn't do anything.

01:09:59.880 JD is the opposite of a Nazi.

01:10:01.540 JD is a wonderful, humane person, and a wise person, and above all, a normal person who

01:10:07.560 understands what's the country.

01:10:08.280 And I hate politicians.

01:10:10.100 You're never going to hear me say that about any politician, probably, other than him.

01:10:12.980 And I've known them all, well.

01:10:15.200 And he's an amazing person.

01:10:16.840 So I grieve to think that he is being tarred by guilt by association because I know him.

01:10:23.080 I, of course, I hesitate even to say it because I don't want to hurt him, but I, we already

01:10:27.000 heard what I said about him.

01:10:27.980 So I think he's a, and I think he's, he's done such an amazing job for Trump.

01:10:31.840 How'd you like to be vice president?

01:10:33.220 Yeah.

01:10:33.820 Tough.

01:10:34.880 Is there anybody else who could do it besides JD?

01:10:37.360 You know, I don't, I don't really know.

01:10:40.740 I think there's, I think this, there's a mad scramble.

01:10:43.160 It's never what, it's never what they say it's about.

01:10:46.180 I think there's a huge scramble.

01:10:47.840 I don't think I know because I'm in the middle of it, um, to define what the Republican party

01:10:51.960 is after Trump.

01:10:53.100 That's what it is.

01:10:53.700 Trump is not ideological.

01:10:55.140 So there's, you know, what does MAGA mean actually?

01:10:57.720 Well, MAGA means America first is what it means.

01:10:59.840 And so, but is this going to be an America first party or will the Republican party devolve

01:11:06.000 into, revert to what it was before Trump, which is, you know, libertarian economics, neoconservative

01:11:11.140 foreign policy, pro-censorship.

01:11:13.480 And the pro-censorship people are out in force this week, like platform, you can't, you,

01:11:18.280 dinner with the person, never speak again.

01:11:20.140 Like, how is that different from the woke stuff?

01:11:22.220 It's exactly the same.

01:11:23.440 It's so embarrassing.

01:11:24.900 Oh my gosh.

01:11:25.520 It is.

01:11:26.240 No, it's, it's, it's woke on the right.

01:11:27.980 And then, and then they actually want you to say the thing.

01:11:30.660 I mean, they're, they're doing it to me just because we're friends.

01:11:33.160 I can't imagine what they're doing to JD.

01:11:34.920 It's ridiculous.

01:11:36.000 Are you watching what they did to Kevin Roberts at Heritage because he defended free speech?

01:11:40.940 Kevin Roberts, do you guys know this, this piece of the story?

01:11:43.100 Kevin Roberts at the Heritage Foundation came out and defended Tucker because there was a

01:11:46.060 rumor, there was an untrue report that Heritage, Heritage was piling on Tucker after his interview

01:11:51.260 of Nick Fuentes and was like canceling Tucker, was going to pull down the Tucker pictures

01:11:54.840 at the Heritage Foundation.

01:11:55.940 So the head of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts went on and did a video and said that

01:11:59.420 none of that's true.

01:12:00.480 We love Tucker and we're going to continue to support Tucker and we don't really believe in

01:12:04.580 cancel culture and, you know, kind of get off our back.

01:12:06.920 That's a, that's a Democrat thing.

01:12:08.680 All hell broke loose at the Heritage Foundation and they basically forced him to go on sort

01:12:13.420 of an apology tour in the days thereafter and people are leaving the Heritage Foundation.

01:12:18.060 Now people are like judging you on whether you're leaving the foundation or you're staying

01:12:21.220 there.

01:12:21.480 It's like, all he did was say, I am not going to disavow Tucker.

01:12:25.260 I'm not canceling Tucker.

01:12:26.460 I love Tucker and I believe in free speech and I don't think we should cancel.

01:12:29.380 This isn't cancellation.

01:12:30.680 It's disavowal.

01:12:32.200 It's, you know, you're, you're normalizing Tucker.

01:12:34.740 Hello.

01:12:35.460 Tucker's been normalized.

01:12:36.780 He's good.

01:12:37.380 He is normal.

01:12:38.400 He's got his own views on these matters that are very controversial that a lot of people

01:12:41.820 disagree about.

01:12:42.920 Doesn't make them bad people.

01:12:44.200 And they're now dragging him like in Game of Thrones, you know, shame, shame style.

01:12:49.600 They're also scaring the crap out of people.

01:12:52.000 I mean, people I really love and know well have called me and be like, you're a Nazi

01:12:56.700 or I'm never talking to you again.

01:12:58.620 And it's, I'm not even really stung by it.

01:13:01.620 I'm saddened by it.

01:13:02.760 Like you, it's very easy to scare people.

01:13:04.920 Very, very easy.

01:13:05.860 I had it tonight.

01:13:06.780 Someone came up to me and people are calling you a Nazi and I'm Jewish and I didn't, you

01:13:11.360 know, my friends are saying, how can you meet him?

01:13:12.720 And I'm like, oh, I felt so bad because these are sincere people who are not trying to make

01:13:17.500 some political point about the Republican party.

01:13:18.920 They're like, they have been told that there is someone who's going to hurt them and it

01:13:23.820 scares the crap out of people.

01:13:25.220 I mean it.

01:13:25.860 Like, I think that's evil.

01:13:27.120 And by the way, I've thought a lot about this because I was a TV show host my whole life

01:13:30.480 and you can scare the crap out of people on TV.

01:13:33.040 And I've done it, by the way, and I'm ashamed of it.

01:13:35.240 You get out there and you're like, oh, they're coming for you.

01:13:37.720 And like, are they really coming for you?

01:13:40.080 If they're not, don't say that because you have the ability to really whip people into a

01:13:45.160 frenzy and it hurts them.

01:13:47.240 It makes them unreasonable.

01:13:48.740 Actually, it makes them hateful.

01:13:50.560 Everything about it is bad.

01:13:52.500 And they're doing that in a huge way.

01:13:54.120 I mean, they, some group like is now demanding that Heritage have mandatory Shabbat dinners

01:13:59.240 for every Heritage employee because.

01:14:02.200 Does that stop one from becoming an anti-Semite?

01:14:04.260 No, it creates it.

01:14:05.160 I mean, what?

01:14:06.020 And then one kid was like, well, I don't know.

01:14:08.240 I'm not, I'm Catholic.

01:14:09.640 I have a religious observance on Friday night and they're like, you're an anti-Semite.

01:14:14.040 It's like, dude, you are really playing with fire.

01:14:16.360 This stuff is so bad.

01:14:17.580 It makes people dislike each other and don't do that.

01:14:20.820 Why are we doing that?

01:14:22.120 Look, in all seriousness, like the challah bread, that's enough to make you convert.

01:14:27.180 Honestly.

01:14:27.740 I've eaten so much of it in my life.

01:14:30.080 The brisket and the challah.

01:14:31.340 I had to buy new pants.

01:14:32.480 I used to go over all the time for Shabbat dinner with my Jewish friends in my old building

01:14:36.460 and it was amazing.

01:14:37.520 I'm not against it.

01:14:38.380 I'm just saying.

01:14:38.900 No, I'm joking.

01:14:39.960 Emphasizing our differences, telling people that everyone hates you.

01:14:44.620 You've seen this happen on the left.

01:14:46.400 That's what identity politics is.

01:14:48.520 It's telling a group, everybody hates you, therefore you have to support us.

01:14:52.980 Well, and by the way, the more, the more they look at you and say that over and over

01:14:57.280 and over and over and over again, the more you have to feel they're trying to make

01:15:00.800 you become the thing.

01:15:02.480 Well, yeah, and by the way, luckily, I'm not a paranoid person or afraid for my safety

01:15:06.940 just by my temperament.

01:15:08.040 I'm not, but they are calling for violence, actually, against me.

01:15:12.520 And what?

01:15:13.280 I mean, Charlie Kirk was just martyred.

01:15:14.740 Like, stop.

01:15:15.420 And censorship calls for violence are exactly what we said we were against last month.

01:15:21.900 Okay, let me ask you about this.

01:15:23.200 So what is going on?

01:15:23.940 Let's talk just for one minute about Ben Shapiro because he, too, is under threat.

01:15:28.440 I know you both very well, and I also really care about Ben.

01:15:32.480 And he's, you cannot see Ben without six armed guards.

01:15:35.740 He said on the Daily Wire not long ago, and I think it was a great line, he said, if they

01:15:38.840 kill Matt Walsh, God forbid, everybody will know who did it, some crazed leftist.

01:15:43.540 He said, if they kill me, it'll be like an Agatha Christie novel, like a mystery, where

01:15:48.940 they won't know.

01:15:49.480 It could be alt-right, could be far left.

01:15:51.480 But, like, he's got a lot of haters.

01:15:53.760 And so there was this one brief shining moment after Charlie died where you guys kind of

01:15:58.020 buried the hatchet, and you...

01:15:59.880 I called him.

01:16:00.640 I called him and Mark Levin, who I know well.

01:16:04.520 He's obviously a lunatic, but he's a person.

01:16:06.820 And I didn't want to fight.

01:16:08.140 Well, he obviously is.

01:16:09.420 But I didn't want to fight with him at all.

01:16:11.800 And I said to both of them, I called him the day after, or two days after Charlie was killed

01:16:15.700 from my backyard, because I was really thinking about it and praying about it.

01:16:18.760 And I was like, we agree on a lot, like a lot, actually.

01:16:22.320 And I'm not that interested in the topic of Israel.

01:16:25.080 I would be so glad never to hear the name again.

01:16:27.380 I mean, I would be so glad.

01:16:28.320 I would never mention it again.

01:16:29.340 Let's just...

01:16:30.140 I'm not for more forever wars.

01:16:32.000 Let's just stop that pressure, and I'll never mention it again.

01:16:34.500 I'll never think about it again.

01:16:35.560 You obviously care about it much more than you.

01:16:36.880 That's fine.

01:16:37.360 But take that off the table, and we agree on a lot.

01:16:39.340 So, let's, you know, not attack each other.

01:16:43.940 And they didn't abide by those terms, but that's fine.

01:16:47.200 They were under no obligation.

01:16:47.720 Mark Levin was literally attacking you within days of that.

01:16:50.260 I remember when you had that conversation.

01:16:51.520 No, I know.

01:16:51.660 That's fine.

01:16:52.440 Within days.

01:16:53.320 That's fine.

01:16:54.000 I don't care with Mark.

01:16:54.900 He's also out there calling me an anti-Semite.

01:16:56.340 I don't even know what...

01:16:57.000 I know at least what the accusations against you are.

01:16:59.240 I have no idea what I did.

01:17:00.500 Is anyone thinking through the damage this is doing, like downstream?

01:17:03.960 I don't think that Levin...

01:17:05.920 Again, there are things that Levin says that I agree with completely.

01:17:08.740 I don't hate Mark Levin, but...

01:17:10.000 Enough about him.

01:17:10.440 Because he's truly...

01:17:11.160 I mean, Mark Levin, you're like, oh, Mark Levin's angry again.

01:17:13.560 What a shock.

01:17:14.600 But is there any way that you and Ben Shapiro can actually find your way to detente?

01:17:22.400 I'm not against Ben Shapiro.

01:17:24.080 He did, like, a 40-minute thing yesterday calling me dangerous and all this stuff.

01:17:27.860 It's like, I didn't watch it, because why?

01:17:30.860 But I got a lot of texts about it, and it's like, I'm not...

01:17:34.100 I don't think Ben Shapiro is driving a lot of this stuff.

01:17:36.740 I don't consider him, like, the world's greatest force for evil.

01:17:41.280 I don't feel that way at all.

01:17:42.480 I don't actually think about him ever.

01:17:44.320 So I'm not attacking him.

01:17:47.200 I saw him at Charlie's memorial service backstage.

01:17:51.720 It was totally nice.

01:17:52.960 And he looked a little uncomfortable, but I wasn't uncomfortable.

01:17:57.360 I'm like a lunatic.

01:17:58.120 I was, like, prattling on and telling obscene jokes and all this stuff, and he was totally nice.

01:18:02.820 A little appalled, but nice.

01:18:04.760 And so I don't want to have a war with Ben Shapiro.

01:18:07.280 I don't know if...

01:18:08.620 Does he really think that me doing an interview in which I explain that anti-Semitism is wrong

01:18:13.720 to one of the lead purveyors of anti-Semitism, that that somehow makes me a Nazi?

01:18:17.200 Like, what is the argument here?

01:18:18.720 I'm going to ask him tomorrow night.

01:18:19.920 No, but I don't even understand what the argument is.

01:18:22.200 All I know is that the right, and I've been on the right since before Ben was born, is

01:18:27.120 acting like the left in such an amazingly precise way that I'm like, what the hell is

01:18:32.920 going on?

01:18:33.740 And I tell you this, I'm against that.

01:18:37.060 I was against it when the left did it.

01:18:38.300 I'm against censorship.

01:18:39.280 I'm against identity politics, no matter who does it, period, because that violates my

01:18:44.360 principles.

01:18:44.940 And I'll never be on board with that.

01:18:46.400 I don't care if my own kids run for office.

01:18:48.700 If they engage in censorship and identity politics, I'm out.

01:18:52.000 If it's all about their tribe, if this is about who's ever tribe, we're done.

01:18:57.100 This has to be about our common American-ness.

01:19:00.340 We're all American citizens.

01:19:01.580 And if our politics is not about that, it can't continue, period.

01:19:07.300 One of the things I know about you is in the last few years, you've really leaned into

01:19:13.160 your Christianity.

01:19:15.000 And when reading the Bible, you've been studying it, you've been getting more and

01:19:18.680 more faithful.

01:19:20.260 So how did that happen?

01:19:21.500 And was it related to, in a weird way, this is kind of a weird left turn, but was it all

01:19:26.300 related to leaving Fox and becoming an independent in the journalism world?

01:19:31.840 I wonder if those two things dovetail.

01:19:33.640 I don't know.

01:19:34.600 I always feel guilty talking about Christianity because I'm such a bad Christian that it's like,

01:19:39.240 oh gosh, I don't want to discredit what I believe in by somehow purporting to speak on behalf

01:19:47.760 of it.

01:19:48.740 So with that caveat, no, it was before I left Fox and really what happened, I mean, I've

01:19:54.460 been a baptized Christian my whole life, but I lived in a very secular world my whole life

01:19:59.840 and had very secular attitudes, and I still do in some ways.

01:20:02.780 I'm trying to get rid of them.

01:20:04.160 It's hard.

01:20:05.460 But it was watching, it was while I was still at Fox, and it was watching the nature of

01:20:11.080 politics.

01:20:11.640 And I always thought politics was, I covered it my whole life, I thought it was about

01:20:15.020 what's best for the country or best for people.

01:20:18.460 We have different visions of what's best, right?

01:20:21.800 Left has one, right has another.

01:20:23.380 All of a sudden, people were proposing things that under no circumstances could ever be good

01:20:27.280 for people, ever.

01:20:27.920 They weren't even bothering to make it, it was abortion, really.

01:20:30.840 Used to be people would be like, well, abortion's sad, but there are cases where, like, are

01:20:34.040 you really going to try and force a 13-year-old to have a baby?

01:20:36.760 And I'd be like, I get it, I get it.

01:20:39.220 All of a sudden, people were just like, no, abortion's just good.

01:20:41.020 It's just good to have an abortion.

01:20:42.340 Shout your abortion.

01:20:43.180 We're going to bring an abortion truck to the Democratic National Convention, because

01:20:46.180 more abortion's just good.

01:20:48.080 And I'm like, that's not really politics, actually.

01:20:50.920 That's a kind of religion.

01:20:52.140 That's human sacrifice, actually.

01:20:54.160 You're telling me that it's just good to have an abortion?

01:20:56.280 And I saw that, it didn't make...

01:20:58.600 And I was trying to understand it in secular terms, like, who's for that?

01:21:02.420 Even people who are super pro-choice are like, I wouldn't want my...

01:21:05.680 You know, it's sad.

01:21:07.520 But they were not saying that.

01:21:08.920 They were extolling it.

01:21:10.060 They were celebrating it.

01:21:11.040 And I was like, wow, that's spiritual.

01:21:13.460 And there were a lot of issues.

01:21:14.340 The trans issue.

01:21:15.080 I'd always been pretty liberal on that.

01:21:16.540 You want to dress up like a girl?

01:21:17.780 Okay.

01:21:18.680 You look dumb, but I'm not mad about it.

01:21:20.420 I mean, because I grew up in California around a lot of rich liberals, and there were some

01:21:26.520 weird behavior, and I was like, yeah, whatever.

01:21:29.400 But all of a sudden, they're like, no, we have to castrate your kids.

01:21:32.320 And I was like, why would you do that?

01:21:33.640 So then I just realized that their evil is real, like supernatural evil, and that this

01:21:38.260 battle between light and dark that every culture has described, every religion describes

01:21:42.220 in great detail from the beginning of recorded history is real.

01:21:45.540 And it's only in my country, in the West, since the Second World War, that we've just

01:21:49.640 decided we're God, and we don't think in those terms.

01:21:52.300 And so we're blind to what's actually happening, that so much around us is a manifestation of

01:21:56.500 the ongoing, ever-present, eternal, spiritual war between good and evil.

01:22:02.400 And everyone else in the world knows this except me.

01:22:04.820 And I was like, holy smokes, it's real.

01:22:07.840 And then I was like, I hate church, because I don't trust any religious leaders, because

01:22:12.500 I know too many of them.

01:22:13.460 And so I'm just going to, which is totally unfair, by the way, but that was my thought.

01:22:18.240 Like, you know, I know these people, no thanks.

01:22:20.680 And my own church had become totally pagan and crazy.

01:22:23.620 So I was like, I'm just going to read the Bible at home and just like read the whole

01:22:26.380 thing, like I would read War and Peace or Anna Karenina, just like cover to cover, took

01:22:30.320 me a year and a half, and I'm going to see what's in it.

01:22:32.580 And it just blew my freaking mind.

01:22:35.160 I was like, wow, it's real.

01:22:36.640 I can't believe this.

01:22:37.700 I'd never read it.

01:22:38.440 I'd never read the whole thing.

01:22:39.600 I'd read like, you know, whatever the, and the greatest of these is love.

01:22:43.460 And, you know, because I've been to a lot of weddings, but I'd never just like gone

01:22:48.840 Genesis to Revelation.

01:22:50.980 And it, and that, that is like the central text in our civilization.

01:22:55.340 And I hadn't read it.

01:22:56.500 And I'm a reader.

01:22:57.180 I love to read.

01:22:58.540 I don't know how that happened, but that completely changed my life.

01:23:01.780 And now I like send Bibles to people, like some kind of street preacher.

01:23:05.560 It was funny because I started.

01:23:07.300 Have you read the Bible?

01:23:08.520 They're like, what?

01:23:09.400 Get away from me.

01:23:10.760 A couple of years ago, I started, you know, the podcast Bible in a Year.

01:23:14.480 Yeah.

01:23:14.940 Father Mike Schmitz.

01:23:15.920 Love him.

01:23:17.080 Susie does that.

01:23:17.940 I love it.

01:23:18.380 My wife does that.

01:23:18.760 It's very helpful.

01:23:19.560 It's a great way to go through it.

01:23:20.460 And I think he's brilliant.

01:23:21.520 And, you know, it starts Old Testament.

01:23:23.700 And we were in some chapters there where the kids would walk into the room and you'd be like,

01:23:28.500 following him down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down.

01:23:30.340 It was worse than the datelines.

01:23:31.760 I put the dateline on.

01:23:32.560 They could listen to that.

01:23:33.260 But some of the stuff in the Old Testament, you know, there's some stories in there that

01:23:37.120 are kind of disturbing.

01:23:38.360 Kind of rattled my cage.

01:23:39.600 Yeah.

01:23:39.900 Like, I was shocked by some of that.

01:23:41.180 Yeah.

01:23:41.720 It was like I needed a, you know, a warning on the audio tape.

01:23:45.540 But you had a story on somebody else's podcast that completely caught my attention, which

01:23:52.540 you said you think you were attacked by a demon.

01:23:56.620 And I have to tell you, like, a lot of people mock this.

01:23:59.340 They rolled their eyes.

01:24:00.120 But I look at, like, what happened to Charlie, what happened in the wake of Charlie, what happened

01:24:08.380 at the Ascension School in Minneapolis where that man went in there and shot a bunch of

01:24:13.840 little children praying at their church school?

01:24:17.760 And I challenge anyone to tell me there aren't demons among us.

01:24:22.540 Well, I never thought there were.

01:24:23.700 I thought it was, I thought the whole thing was, like, bizarre.

01:24:26.480 Because what happened?

01:24:27.500 Because, like, culturally, I'm just not from a world where people are attacked by demons.

01:24:31.700 And, in fact, when it happened the next morning, when I saw the blood on my sheets, I was like,

01:24:36.900 I actually called someone who works for me who's a very sincere, lifelong evangelical.

01:24:41.000 And I'm like, have you ever heard of this?

01:24:41.820 And she's like, oh, yeah, it happens all the time.

01:24:43.000 And I was like, what?

01:24:44.320 Not to Episcopalians it doesn't.

01:24:47.120 Stuff it down.

01:24:47.920 Yeah, no, it was, well, yeah, I mean, I'm not embarrassed at all.

01:24:52.100 And I don't care if I'm mocked.

01:24:53.960 Don't get anything out of making this up.

01:24:56.000 And I'm not making it up.

01:24:56.920 But what happened?

01:24:57.760 I was, I had this crazy experience where I was in the truck with someone coming back

01:25:01.400 from quail hunting.

01:25:02.740 And I had, all of a sudden, this, we were talking about someone I despise.

01:25:06.500 And all of a sudden, I had this crazy empathy for the person.

01:25:09.140 Like, really intense empathy.

01:25:10.680 Like, I could understand why this person was doing these horrible things.

01:25:14.480 And I said to the person in the truck, this is a family dispute, right?

01:25:17.000 So I was, said to the person, maybe my brother, and I said, I think I know what's happening

01:25:23.380 here.

01:25:23.560 This person feels this way, that way, this way.

01:25:25.260 And my brother goes, how did you know that?

01:25:27.980 I said, I don't know.

01:25:28.820 It just, like, and my brother goes, I think, like, God is, like, speaking through you or

01:25:32.560 something.

01:25:32.900 And I felt total, true empathy for this person I truly hate.

01:25:37.780 It was, like, the craziest thing that's ever happened to me.

01:25:39.740 I have no idea where it came from.

01:25:41.020 My brother's, like, I think that's from God.

01:25:42.200 Like, there's no way you could, I said, well, that's kind of wild.

01:25:44.040 So then I get home.

01:25:45.280 We have this huge dinner party, which we always have dinner parties.

01:25:48.400 And I forget about it.

01:25:50.600 And I'm telling you this because they're twinned.

01:25:52.140 The one leads to the other.

01:25:53.380 I had this profound experience with God, like, profound and beautiful and unexpected.

01:25:58.880 And then I go to bed with my wife and four dogs who sleep in the bed.

01:26:02.520 My wife's had four children.

01:26:03.900 My dogs are hunting dogs.

01:26:05.600 All five of them wake up like that.

01:26:07.700 Like, they, you know, they are, we have no home invaders in my house.

01:26:11.380 I wake up at 2.30 in the morning.

01:26:13.720 I check my, and I couldn't breathe at all.

01:26:16.420 My throat was closed.

01:26:17.900 It wasn't like I was apnea or I was strong as I couldn't breathe.

01:26:20.060 So I get up, I stand in the doorway of our bedroom, and I'm like, wow, I'm dying.

01:26:24.180 I can feel myself starting to gray out.

01:26:27.120 And then I started walking in the backyard, and then it slowly came back.

01:26:31.220 Like, my throat kind of opened up a little bit.

01:26:32.640 I was, like, really weirded out.

01:26:34.300 I walk back in, and my wife wakes up.

01:26:36.560 She goes, what is going on?

01:26:37.700 I said, I don't know.

01:26:38.200 I can't breathe.

01:26:38.960 I feel better now.

01:26:40.700 And all of a sudden, I had this horrible pain underneath my arms, like, on the side of my chest.

01:26:47.280 Like, bad.

01:26:47.940 I thought I'd been, like, ripped with a knife or something.

01:26:50.120 It just was very intense.

01:26:51.500 So I go into the bathroom.

01:26:52.580 I flip on the light, and I have claw marks on both sides, on right and left side, on my ribs.

01:27:00.800 And they're bleeding.

01:27:03.040 And they're claw marks.

01:27:04.140 They're literally claw marks, you know, four on either side.

01:27:06.700 I put my fingers in them, don't fit my fingers.

01:27:08.140 And I sleep on my side.

01:27:09.220 So how could, and by the way, no one woke up.

01:27:13.140 So I show my wife, and she's like, oh, my gosh.

01:27:16.920 And then I have this, like, crazy intense desire to read the Bible.

01:27:20.180 So I read the Bible, and I pass out in, like, two minutes.

01:27:22.940 And I wake up, and the next morning, I thought, man, did I have a wild dream.

01:27:26.980 And then I see blood in my sheets, and I go in the bathroom, and I have these.

01:27:30.220 Bloody marks.

01:27:32.240 And my wife goes, I think you were attacked by some supernatural being.

01:27:36.520 And I was, like, trying to be logical about it.

01:27:37.940 And I was like, yeah, I definitely was.

01:27:39.060 And then I called one of my producers.

01:27:41.420 She's like, oh, yeah, that's pretty common.

01:27:44.220 I was like, what?

01:27:46.240 And I've had a couple other experiences, not that crazy, but where you really feel God's presence,

01:27:53.100 which is marked by peace and true empathy, love for other people, which doesn't come naturally to me.

01:28:00.100 I'm kind of a dick, obviously.

01:28:02.900 But you know it when God is acting through you, and then they're followed by some wild attack.

01:28:10.200 Like, I've had a couple things.

01:28:12.300 It's just like, well, anyway, I'm not an expert on this.

01:28:15.200 I'm hardly a theologian, of course.

01:28:18.440 I would never pretend to be an expert on anything.

01:28:19.820 I can only say what happened to me.

01:28:21.200 It was 100% real.

01:28:23.000 And it completely changed my view of the world.

01:28:26.060 Well, what did you learn from your conversation with Lee Strobel, who wrote a book on the supernatural

01:28:31.300 and who also wrote The Case for Christ?

01:28:33.760 Many of you guys recommended that book to me, and it really was amazing.

01:28:36.960 And Lee Strobel came on your show in September on his new book, which is about the supernatural.

01:28:43.460 Yes.

01:28:43.780 It's about miracles.

01:28:44.540 It's about angels.

01:28:45.620 It's about demons.

01:28:46.580 It's a great read.

01:28:47.860 But was there something in there that spoke to you?

01:28:49.720 Everything about it, I mean, I grew up in a church, I'll just admit it, with shame,

01:28:53.740 in the Episcopal Church, where all the supernatural stuff was taken out.

01:28:58.120 And at a certain stage in my life, I was like, why am I going to church?

01:29:00.600 I love hanging in bed with my wife and dogs on Sunday morning.

01:29:03.400 Like, why am I?

01:29:04.320 And we wear ties to church.

01:29:05.460 Like, why am I doing this?

01:29:06.320 There's nothing in here that's like, be nice to your neighbor?

01:29:08.780 Okay.

01:29:09.720 Like, if it's not supernatural, then what's the point?

01:29:12.660 And when I read the Bible, it's like, it is about the supernatural.

01:29:17.120 Like, that's the whole story.

01:29:18.520 It's true.

01:29:18.680 It's like God intervenes supernaturally, bigger than, above nature, and that's why it's different

01:29:25.900 from every other book.

01:29:27.660 And the New Testament, especially, is filled with Jesus casting out demons.

01:29:31.000 I literally didn't know that.

01:29:32.280 I knew there was the, you know, crazy guy in the cemetery who broke his chains, but I didn't

01:29:35.780 really realize that not only was Jesus, but also disciples were casting out demons that

01:29:39.820 were possessing people and causing them to hurt themselves.

01:29:42.540 And as someone who had, you know, a drug and alcohol problem, like, I know kind of that

01:29:47.000 weird, I've seen it a lot in others also, that weird desire to harm yourself.

01:29:52.100 By the way, there's a reason they call it his demons.

01:29:54.620 He's fighting his demons.

01:29:55.260 It is totally real, because ultimately, evil, we always think of evil as like something that

01:30:01.160 like diabolical people do to gain, like, I'm screwing you, I'm killing you so I can take

01:30:07.320 your gold.

01:30:07.860 But what we never acknowledge is true, which is evil flows through people and destroys the

01:30:13.760 people, not just the victims, but also the person through whom it flows.

01:30:19.220 People who are possessed by evil are themselves destroyed every single time.

01:30:23.080 And of course, I've lived a life, so I've seen a lot of that.

01:30:25.900 And now, in retrospect, I understand what it was.

01:30:28.760 And so much of what we experience is from outside of ourselves.

01:30:33.020 We are acted upon constantly, constantly by the spiritual realm.

01:30:38.300 And Lee Strobel just affirmed what I was beginning to realize, which is we are the subject of massive

01:30:46.740 supernatural influence all the time.

01:30:49.940 And every other civilization from the beginning of time has acknowledged this and written about

01:30:55.080 it and left artifacts that point to that belief.

01:30:57.800 And only in the last 80 years have we just foreclosed that possibility.

01:31:01.760 And we've embraced this, the dumbest religion ever created, scientism, which is like, oh, I can't

01:31:07.360 measure that.

01:31:08.200 It's not real.

01:31:09.360 Oh, shut up.

01:31:11.540 That's like insane, actually, when you say it out loud.

01:31:14.460 But that is our state religion.

01:31:16.480 It's mandated, by the way.

01:31:17.720 If you don't believe it, you can't serve in high office, you're mocked, you're literally

01:31:21.060 disqualified from professions.

01:31:22.720 If you don't embrace scientism, which is like the fakest thing ever invented, like I would

01:31:28.060 always, like as a kid, study these weird religions.

01:31:30.060 I'm like, that's insane.

01:31:31.200 Nothing is as insane as scientism.

01:31:34.840 And so once you discard it, and you're like, yeah, it's nice to measure things in a lab.

01:31:38.520 Is that the sum total of truth?

01:31:39.780 Obviously not.

01:31:41.200 What is true?

01:31:42.140 Then you realize, like, holy smokes, the spiritual battle is totally real.

01:31:46.300 And we, we are the subjects of it.

01:31:50.540 And that will lead us to UFOs.

01:31:54.520 All right.

01:31:55.380 Now, I know you're into this topic.

01:31:57.400 And I know you know people who know a lot about this topic, and who may not be able to

01:32:02.660 provide everything they know in a public setting.

01:32:05.180 So what do we know?

01:32:08.540 Well, I mean, we know beyond question that there are objects and phenomena, aerial and

01:32:15.620 undersea that can't be explained by science, and that seem to defy the laws, well, measurably

01:32:21.860 defy the laws of physics, and that are not experimental aircraft created by DARPA or the DOD, or by the

01:32:30.600 Russians or the Chinese.

01:32:31.560 Like, we know that.

01:32:32.520 There have been many testimonies to this effect under oath in the Congress in the last two years.

01:32:38.320 So, like, that's not even a question.

01:32:39.540 Are they, are they real?

01:32:40.260 Yeah, well, obviously they're real.

01:32:41.540 What are they is the question.

01:32:43.660 And I've been down the rabbit hole on this.

01:32:45.680 And just because of my job, the one upside to having a gig like this, as you well know, is if you're

01:32:50.360 curious about something, you actually have access to people who know or say they know.

01:32:53.880 And you just call them up and be like, hey, come to my house.

01:32:55.360 Tell me what you know.

01:32:56.360 I'm working on a story about it.

01:32:57.780 I've never done really a story on this because I came to a hard and fast conclusion on it, which I can't prove.

01:33:03.300 But I, I sincerely believe it, which is that these are spiritual phenomenon, obviously.

01:33:07.680 They've been here forever.

01:33:08.980 There's a lot of evidence of that in the written record going back thousands of years.

01:33:14.580 They're angels and demons, of course.

01:33:16.680 And that would be obvious and was obvious to every, everyone else.

01:33:20.020 What's so interesting, one of the reasons that this topic will drive you crazy and why I opted out and do no research and talk to no one about it.

01:33:26.700 I've, I'm, I'm out.

01:33:27.880 I know what I think.

01:33:28.480 I don't need to, I don't want to know anymore.

01:33:29.620 Is because there is such, and this is a matter of record, a concerted, decades-long disinformation campaign by the U.S. government to obscure what's happening.

01:33:37.960 And if you look at that, and I grew up the son of a federal employee in a world where there was a lot of this stuff, so I, I do know a lot about this.

01:33:47.140 And one of the ways to discredit the truth is by flooding the zone with lies.

01:33:53.580 So rather than just denying UFOs are not real, well, you can't deny that anymore.

01:33:57.360 They are real.

01:33:58.200 What you do is you create a bunch of fake stories leading people in the wrong direction.

01:34:03.240 You flood the zone.

01:34:04.180 There's so many conspiracy theories that no one believes anything.

01:34:06.620 But the way to know what the truth is, is by figuring out what they're trying to prevent you from believing.

01:34:14.400 And if you look at the U.S. government propaganda, DOD propaganda, on the question of UFOs, UAPs, the one thread that connects all of it is that these are not supernatural.

01:34:25.460 These are little green men from Mars.

01:34:27.660 They're weather phenomenon.

01:34:28.820 They're experimental aircraft.

01:34:30.820 The one thing that they don't want you to believe is that they are spiritual entities.

01:34:35.960 Why would that be so threatening to them?

01:34:37.520 Well, that's a great question.

01:34:38.780 That is the question.

01:34:40.520 And there, there's an awful lot of thinking on this, on this, on this matter.

01:34:44.240 And I don't know the answer.

01:34:46.620 And I have, I, you know, I have theories on it.

01:34:48.740 I don't have a firm belief on it.

01:34:50.500 There's certainly an awful lot of highly informed speculation that there are very dark reasons that they don't want because they're participating in it.

01:34:56.420 And there have been technology transfers that are, you know, consistent with what we know about spiritual forces, which is always a deal.

01:35:03.680 So, you know, bow down before me and all of this will be yours.

01:35:07.360 I mean, it's kind of the core story in the New Testament, and it's the template for our own lives.

01:35:12.920 In fact, we face this all the time in our own lives.

01:35:15.620 You don't need to be interested in UFOs to recognize that so many times you reach a juncture in your life, in my life, where it's like, I could do this and I would get a lot out of it.

01:35:24.320 I'd become more powerful.

01:35:25.560 I'd get to have sex with someone I want to have sex with.

01:35:27.680 I'd become richer.

01:35:28.520 If only I violate what I believe, if only I bow down and worship you.

01:35:34.940 And there is a lot of informed speculation that the U.S. government has participated in this and that defense technology, in particular nuclear technology, is the product of that.

01:35:45.160 And I don't know if that's true.

01:35:46.000 I will say one extremely interesting thing that no one seems to know is that it's not exactly where nuclear technology came from.

01:35:52.120 But who would we be cutting a deal with in this scenario?

01:35:56.960 So that's why I don't speculate about it, because I don't know the answer, obviously.

01:36:03.200 You know, what we're seeing, these phenomena, are spiritual phenomena.

01:36:07.900 And one of the reasons that I came to that conclusion was because of an incredibly kooky story that's not kooky at all.

01:36:14.040 It's 100% real, which is cattle mutilations.

01:36:16.060 And cattle mutilations are a consistent feature of life in the West, not just in the United States, but going back hundreds of years in Europe, farmers would find their cattle, their sheep, slain and dismembered in a way that no butcher could replicate and drained of all of their blood.

01:36:31.840 And clearly, this is a ritual sacrifice of an animal, which is described in not just the Old Testament, but many sacred texts and many religions.

01:36:38.620 And it was the basis, of course, of all of the ancient human sacrifice cults, which were, like, in every country, not just in Latin America, but my ancestors.

01:36:47.440 You know, the Norse sacrificed people.

01:36:49.300 So, like, sacrificing people or animals to please the gods is the one consistent feature of all religion going back to the beginning of recorded history.

01:36:59.500 And why is that? Because there's something there.

01:37:01.880 Why would people on continents separated by oceans they could not traverse reach the same conclusion about the nature of the spiritual realm, the exact same conclusion, if they weren't responding to something that was actually real?

01:37:15.800 Well, of course, they were.

01:37:17.280 And so, there is something about…

01:37:18.480 Christianity is fundamentally the story of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, tortured to death, to atone for human sin.

01:37:26.360 And, of course, biblical Judaism is the story of sacrifice to do the same.

01:37:30.740 So, anyway, whatever.

01:37:31.720 Cattle mutilations are ritual sacrifice, clearly.

01:37:36.400 And what is that?

01:37:37.680 Who's doing it?

01:37:38.460 Like, and if the more…

01:37:39.380 I did a documentary on it, and my whole staff was like, now you're freaking crazy.

01:37:43.180 Cattle mutilations.

01:37:44.020 Well, it turned out the FBI investigated it twice because the value of the livestock killed was so high that ranchers in Idaho complained to the FBI.

01:37:54.320 Well, we need an investigation.

01:37:55.260 Senators got involved.

01:37:56.020 There's a lot written on this.

01:37:58.080 And it's like, well, what is that?

01:37:59.660 Well, the one thing the U.S. government was absolutely intent on you not thinking was that this was some kind of ritual sacrifice.

01:38:06.400 Fascinating.

01:38:06.900 So, I don't know.

01:38:08.460 Are you in a place now where you feel free to do whatever the hell you want?

01:38:13.740 Does it seem like I do?

01:38:14.720 Yes, it does seem like it.

01:38:16.360 I just went on about cattle mutilations without any embarrassment.

01:38:19.080 I told you I got attacked by a demon because I did.

01:38:22.100 Okay, you don't have to believe me, but that happened.

01:38:24.640 Before I came out here, there's a video, like a sizzle reel of some of what I'm doing now.

01:38:29.900 And you had a sizzle reel.

01:38:31.160 And one of the things in that reel was me wearing this shirt that reads free, free, free.

01:38:35.240 And I did put it on and took a picture of it just before I launched this show.

01:38:39.040 And you and I had a conversation not long after I was doing this.

01:38:42.500 You were still at Fox.

01:38:43.840 And this is before they unceremoniously booted you out of there for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

01:38:48.660 Oh, thank you, God.

01:38:50.400 Exactly.

01:38:51.060 But before that happened, you and I talked.

01:38:54.040 And I said, you got to get out of there.

01:38:56.680 And you got to come over to this lane.

01:38:58.460 You got to come independent.

01:38:59.660 Like, you can say whatever you want.

01:39:01.140 And you were envisioning what life could be like then and whether you'd be happy doing something that's not live and not like, you know, you're sort of on point every night.

01:39:11.280 And I look at you now, you seem happier than ever to me.

01:39:15.460 Oh, totally.

01:39:17.320 And you are such an inspiration to me.

01:39:20.860 And without getting into, like, inside TV, TV is its own, like, biosphere.

01:39:25.220 Like, when you work in television, like, you don't know anyone outside of television.

01:39:28.320 Like, your whole world is this thing, right?

01:39:30.180 And it's not hard, like, stringing electrical lines, okay, but it's a pretty all-absorbing gig, right?

01:39:36.820 You're putting on a show.

01:39:37.840 You're in charge of a show for an hour, five days a week.

01:39:40.220 Like, it's a lot.

01:39:42.020 And you just lose perspective.

01:39:44.020 And it was an article of faith.

01:39:47.660 It was in the catechism in television that if you leave a big network, like, that's it for you.

01:39:51.980 You're doing infomercials at best, buddy, with wife number three.

01:39:56.080 Like, you're SOL.

01:39:58.140 And, oh, I've known, like, only, like, 100 people that happened to.

01:40:01.860 So everyone knows that's what happened.

01:40:03.680 And then you had, like, the craziest career.

01:40:07.200 I won't even get into it, but, like, that was, like, unbelievable.

01:40:10.300 And you were such an incredible advocate for me at Fox.

01:40:13.380 And such a loyal friend in the way that nobody else in the whole channel ever was.

01:40:16.580 So I was, of course, like, very closely watching what was happening to you.

01:40:20.520 And what NBC did was, like, one of the worst things I've ever seen them do to anybody.

01:40:23.840 And that's saying a lot.

01:40:25.460 And then you, like, became this, like, even bigger, happier.

01:40:29.100 And we talked on the phone, obviously, a lot about it.

01:40:31.060 And you were, like, this is amazing.

01:40:33.560 And you were the first person ever to kind of beat the law.

01:40:38.420 Like, you didn't go away.

01:40:40.120 You got bigger.

01:40:41.000 And you're way happier.

01:40:42.240 And you're beholden to no one.

01:40:44.480 I was, like, that's the most.

01:40:46.380 And especially after.

01:40:47.800 I'm not even going to.

01:40:48.440 It's, like, what he said about Usha Vance.

01:40:50.260 I don't even want to repeat what NBC did to you.

01:40:52.160 But what they did to you was, like, it was, like, an assault.

01:40:55.900 It was insane.

01:40:57.480 And you just, like, shook it off and built this thing.

01:41:00.260 And I was, like, man, it is possible.

01:41:03.120 But then I couldn't get out of my contract, of course.

01:41:05.460 And I was thinking about how to get out.

01:41:07.420 And then God intervened and just had them fire me for no reason.

01:41:10.760 And I called my wife.

01:41:12.360 She was walking our many dogs.

01:41:13.840 And I was, like, the president of Fox, I won't name her, Suzanne Scott, just called me.

01:41:18.460 And she just fired me.

01:41:20.880 And I had the biggest show in all of cable TV.

01:41:24.240 Huge.

01:41:24.740 And my wife's, like, why?

01:41:27.380 And I said, I don't know, man.

01:41:28.520 It was weird.

01:41:29.160 She wouldn't tell me.

01:41:30.780 And my wife goes, thank you, God.

01:41:33.600 Literally, that's the first thing she said.

01:41:34.980 I was, like, wow.

01:41:36.140 She knew.

01:41:37.000 She's a very faithful, in-tuned person.

01:41:38.960 And she knew this was the greatest blessing.

01:41:41.600 And it really was.

01:41:42.380 And within, like, 10 minutes, I was sad about our staff.

01:41:46.260 But they came with me.

01:41:47.720 And the one's right there.

01:41:49.280 And they were great people.

01:41:51.640 And so it was within, like, 10 minutes, I was in a good mood.

01:41:54.980 And I haven't stopped.

01:41:55.940 Even during Nazi week, I was in a good mood.

01:41:59.380 What's the biggest difference in your life?

01:42:02.920 You don't.

01:42:03.640 Like, I never.

01:42:04.500 Like, you.

01:42:05.040 Like, you were huge at Fox.

01:42:06.960 So, like, they weren't messing with you.

01:42:08.360 Like, you could do whatever you.

01:42:09.240 I mean, I'm just guessing.

01:42:10.020 Well, I think I know it's true.

01:42:10.940 They didn't want to mess with you.

01:42:12.420 And they never mess with me.

01:42:13.720 Not one time did they tell me what to say.

01:42:15.200 I would always say, if you don't like what I say, just fire me, okay?

01:42:17.880 The exercise of the option in the end.

01:42:19.220 But it wasn't that.

01:42:22.780 It wasn't.

01:42:23.380 Like, I never went to any meeting.

01:42:24.500 I never went to one meeting of any kind.

01:42:26.700 In 15 years at Fox, no.

01:42:27.720 One meeting.

01:42:28.340 Because I don't like meetings.

01:42:30.180 But.

01:42:30.540 You didn't get dragged into the mandatory sexual harassment training we all had to do after Bill O'Reilly.

01:42:36.460 I worked at NBC.

01:42:37.840 There's nothing about sexual harassment you can tell me.

01:42:40.000 Like, I've seen it.

01:42:41.320 At Fox, they used to joke that people were using it for tips.

01:42:43.980 No, it's totally right.

01:42:45.440 And, no, I never participated in that.

01:42:47.780 I found it totally insulting.

01:42:48.980 I just refused.

01:42:49.900 And they just.

01:42:50.340 Or the COVID.

01:42:51.180 They tried to make all my staff take the COVID jab.

01:42:54.500 And I was like, no.

01:42:55.900 I'll quit if you do that.

01:42:57.340 And so.

01:42:58.300 They were nice to me.

01:43:01.000 They tried to.

01:43:01.640 One time they tried to make me denounce somebody.

01:43:03.340 And I was like, how about no?

01:43:04.540 And they're like, okay.

01:43:05.680 Okay.

01:43:05.980 So, it wasn't that they were weak.

01:43:10.020 But I could still.

01:43:11.140 I didn't realize the degree to which I could sort of picture, like, some kind of, like, grumpy standards person standing in the control room during my show.

01:43:19.340 So, harrumphing is I said something forbidden.

01:43:21.660 And that does kind of, like, get in your head a little bit.

01:43:23.640 I didn't even realize.

01:43:24.340 I thought I was totally free.

01:43:25.860 But I wasn't.

01:43:26.900 Yeah.

01:43:27.540 And when I left, I was like, man, I can say whatever I want.

01:43:30.880 And actually, it made me feel less angry, you know?

01:43:34.200 Like, less just mad.

01:43:35.480 I'm not.

01:43:35.920 I'm way less mad.

01:43:37.080 Yes.

01:43:37.400 I completely relate to that.

01:43:38.840 I have to tell you, it took me a while.

01:43:40.640 Like, I always said Fox, you know, got a lot of great gifts out of Fox, no question.

01:43:44.700 But it is like a cult.

01:43:46.520 And it takes a while after leaving the cult to realize that you were in a cult.

01:43:50.880 And one of the first signs that you're out of the cult is you do start feeling free, free, free.

01:43:56.000 And you are lighter in your, just in your body, in your step, in your approach to life.

01:44:01.220 And before you know it, this thing creeps over you.

01:44:03.100 And I think they call it happiness.

01:44:05.580 It's amazing.

01:44:07.320 It comes upon you.

01:44:08.420 And you don't realize, like, because you know this very well, as well as I do,

01:44:12.440 the life of a cable news primetime anchor is an embattled life.

01:44:15.700 Oh, man.

01:44:16.540 It is constant.

01:44:17.360 And it is toxic.

01:44:18.260 It really is a nonstop toxicity.

01:44:20.800 And you do what you can to shield yourself from it.

01:44:22.420 But it's just nonstop.

01:44:23.560 It comes from inside the building.

01:44:24.860 It comes from outside the building.

01:44:26.000 It comes from your side.

01:44:26.780 It comes from the other side.

01:44:27.760 You're not seeing your family.

01:44:28.980 It requires an enormous commitment of hours.

01:44:31.100 And you are winning.

01:44:33.300 And you're making money.

01:44:34.660 And you're powerful.

01:44:35.960 And you're miserable.

01:44:38.200 And it's truly, like, the fact that you can now make it in this independent lane

01:44:44.260 where you can have a direct relationship with the public,

01:44:47.600 where you can be known, where you can have a talk like this,

01:44:50.960 where you can say, I don't like being called these names.

01:44:53.680 This is what I was trying to do.

01:44:54.700 We can go on for an hour and a half.

01:44:56.080 This is a show that we're taping right now.

01:44:57.540 It's going to air tomorrow.

01:44:58.620 And people will listen.

01:44:59.780 They'll listen to an hour and a half of this.

01:45:01.640 They'll listen to the stuff about the demons and the UFOs.

01:45:04.520 Because these conversations are searching and they're earnest.

01:45:08.720 There's room for thought and development and exploration and saying,

01:45:13.300 wait, I think I was wrong.

01:45:14.240 And now you've changed my mind.

01:45:15.640 Oh, great.

01:45:16.000 I'm less wrong today than I was yesterday.

01:45:17.240 All of that can happen in this forum and not in the other.

01:45:20.120 And all of it is part of being free, free, free.

01:45:23.400 Totally.

01:45:24.260 That is such a beautiful description of it.

01:45:26.780 It is a cult.

01:45:28.460 There are great things about it.

01:45:29.760 I mean, I saw the world and met fascinating people and had a great time.

01:45:33.040 And I punched out years ago and moved to Maine.

01:45:35.160 And I didn't want to go to their dumb newsroom and do their dumb sexual harassment.

01:45:40.660 I'm alive.

01:45:41.580 Unconscious racism.

01:45:42.720 Yeah, I'm out.

01:45:43.320 I'm such a rule follower.

01:45:46.880 I went to all of them.

01:45:47.820 No, I was like, no, leave me alone.

01:45:50.840 When they fired Ollie North and turned his office into a Muslim prayer room,

01:45:55.220 I was like, no.

01:45:56.280 What?

01:45:56.960 Yeah.

01:45:57.560 Seriously?

01:45:58.100 Yeah.

01:45:58.580 And I'm moving to Maine.

01:45:59.500 Oh, my God.

01:46:00.220 But anyway, so it wasn't that.

01:46:02.580 It was, I really thought it was, like, important.

01:46:05.240 It's almost like when I was a kid, you'd see pictures of, like,

01:46:09.380 people from, like, your parents in the early 70s.

01:46:11.500 And they had, like, the long freedom strips and the weird haircut and the polyester shirts

01:46:15.080 with the super long collars.

01:46:16.360 And you'd be like, God, they look like such tools.

01:46:18.420 Did they know how absurd they looked?

01:46:20.500 Do you know what I mean?

01:46:22.280 And that's how I feel about television.

01:46:24.760 Like, it's so dumb.

01:46:26.760 I never watched it.

01:46:27.840 We never had television.

01:46:28.740 We never watched television anyway at all.

01:46:30.900 We were always against television.

01:46:31.740 But I always thought, well, this is so impressive.

01:46:34.100 And it's like, no, it's also fake.

01:46:36.880 It's also stupid.

01:46:38.760 No one's being fully honest.

01:46:40.440 Like, also, no one's watching.

01:46:41.900 Who cares what's on the cable TV?

01:46:44.880 And when I left, they're like, well, you can never do cable TV.

01:46:47.340 And I was like, yeah, oh, really?

01:46:49.620 Damn.

01:46:50.860 You know, it's like, why would I ever do that?

01:46:52.880 I can't believe I spent so much time doing that.

01:46:54.900 I felt so embarrassed.

01:46:56.320 Oh, good evening.

01:46:57.500 Welcome to my stupid show.

01:46:58.920 So, it's so pompous.

01:47:01.740 Yes.

01:47:01.900 And I was so pompous.

01:47:03.840 It does feel stupid.

01:47:05.080 When you've left it, it feels a little dumb.

01:47:07.380 I can't believe I did that.

01:47:08.060 Like, I tried to take the, you know, bombing of Iran and reduce it to a four-minute segment.

01:47:13.180 Like, what a disservice that we do to the audience there.

01:47:15.300 Well, also, you don't end up talking about things you know nothing about.

01:47:17.900 That is the great joy in having the job that I have now.

01:47:22.600 I hope I have it forever because you choose what you talk about.

01:47:25.180 And I don't like talking about things I don't understand.

01:47:27.760 And I just don't.

01:47:28.380 Same.

01:47:28.920 And you in television, you have no choice.

01:47:30.960 Like, this happens.

01:47:31.720 It's the news of the day.

01:47:33.320 And ultimately, our show was, like, obviously not like other shows.

01:47:37.340 And it got big enough that I was just like, I'm not doing the news of the day.

01:47:39.500 I'm doing the news I want to do because I don't want to talk about stuff I don't understand.

01:47:42.980 Yeah.

01:47:43.520 All right.

01:47:43.920 I want to end it on this.

01:47:45.220 There are a lot.

01:47:46.600 We spent a minute earlier on young men.

01:47:49.780 And I have two young men in my house and a daughter, too.

01:47:54.440 My kids are 16, 14, and 12.

01:47:57.240 The oldest and the youngest are boys.

01:47:59.320 And tonight, we have a bunch of young men who are in high school with my oldest and some young women, too.

01:48:06.780 And I'm still worried about them.

01:48:09.320 And so, these young guys who are here tonight, they were throwing out merch to the audience earlier.

01:48:16.360 What do you want these young guys to know?

01:48:18.100 Oh, thank you.

01:48:18.720 That's sweet.

01:48:19.120 What do you want these young guys to know about their future as young men in America?

01:48:25.160 I want them to know that society can't exist without you.

01:48:27.940 You're essential.

01:48:28.540 And you've been told the opposite in subtle and explicit ways that you're not needed and that your innate qualities, your basic nature, is somehow offensive.

01:48:43.860 And that's a lie.

01:48:46.280 And it's destroyed.

01:48:48.460 You know, I'm not passing the buck.

01:48:49.900 Like, you know, there are a lot of things that young men do that I did that are just their fault.

01:48:53.400 I was always telling my kids, no, I think it's your fault.

01:48:56.440 You know, I'm big on blaming kids.

01:48:59.920 But it's also true that we're the product of the society that we grew up in to some great extent.

01:49:04.480 And the message to young men has been like, yeah, we don't really need you.

01:49:08.120 Like, what you're designed to do, act with certainty and aggression, make decisions, create, you know, express your feelings physically.

01:49:18.900 You know, these are all verboten.

01:49:21.940 And so I just think it's really important to say to men, no, you're absolutely vital.

01:49:26.320 And to say to men about women that men and women need each other.

01:49:29.700 They were created for each other.

01:49:30.940 And I know that there are so many impediments to finding the right person.

01:49:35.420 And I know that because I talk to young men and young women a lot because I really care about the topic.

01:49:39.200 And I find that young men are very hostile to young women.

01:49:42.060 And young women are very contemptuous of young men.

01:49:44.000 And it breaks my heart, you know, that the symbiosis that is necessary for growth, the most basic growth in life between a man and a woman, it's the center of everything.

01:49:54.320 We're created for it.

01:49:55.660 All mammals are.

01:49:57.520 Has been really poisoned.

01:49:59.140 And it makes me sad.

01:50:00.300 But I just want, and I'm not quite sure how to fix it, by the way.

01:50:03.260 I don't have a simple solution.

01:50:04.800 But I think it starts with telling the truth, which is that men and women were designed for each other.

01:50:09.600 And when they are together in harmony, they create a whole.

01:50:13.920 That is true.

01:50:15.020 A whole.

01:50:15.520 W-H-O-L-E.

01:50:18.460 And so that is absolutely essential.

01:50:21.420 It has been everything good in my life comes from my wife and my relationship with my wife.

01:50:26.480 And I've been, and that's not like some, oh, I've got the best wife in the world.

01:50:29.580 No, that's real.

01:50:30.220 Though I do.

01:50:31.300 But it's not even that.

01:50:32.500 It's like no man can fully become himself without a woman and no woman can become fully herself without a man.

01:50:37.880 They need each other.

01:50:39.080 And the most poisonous lie I ever told was told in about 1965 that women just don't need men.

01:50:44.880 And then at some point, men decided they don't need women.

01:50:48.080 And that's when things really fall apart.

01:50:50.060 It's like so basic.

01:50:51.060 And without getting too personal, I know something about your personal life.

01:50:54.840 And you have a balanced, happy personal life.

01:50:58.300 At the core of your life is your family.

01:51:00.380 Not in some sentimental BS way, but in a real way, a day-to-day way.

01:51:05.100 And that is your strength.

01:51:06.560 I've just seen it.

01:51:07.420 And I know that that's true for me.

01:51:08.800 I'm not embarrassed at all.

01:51:10.440 And so finding that is the most important thing.

01:51:13.860 And all good things flow from it, beginning with, and primarily, most importantly, children, but also, as someone whose children are all grown, every other good thing.

01:51:22.860 So whatever you can do to do that is so...

01:51:25.400 And when you find it, do not dick around.

01:51:28.220 Don't dick around.

01:51:29.260 And maybe you're 40 when you find it.

01:51:30.640 You can't, you know.

01:51:31.780 It's one of those things you have to find.

01:51:33.300 But when you do find it, I found it at 15.

01:51:35.340 I don't want to get married at 22, which I did.

01:51:38.660 But I was totally an idiot in every way.

01:51:41.140 But part of me was like...

01:51:42.320 I even said to my girlfriend at the time, like, I don't want to get married.

01:51:45.500 What?

01:51:46.620 But if we don't get married, I'll, like, run into you in some airport 20 years from now.

01:51:51.080 We'll both be married and we'll commit adultery.

01:51:52.440 And I want to kind of cut out the middleman in this.

01:51:56.180 Like, I had no choice.

01:51:57.040 I found the right girl, right?

01:51:58.640 And I'm not from a culture where people get married at 22, like, at all.

01:52:01.760 That was like, what?

01:52:03.500 Are you from Appalachia?

01:52:04.680 Like, what are you doing?

01:52:06.620 But I did because it just happened.

01:52:08.720 So that'd be my advice.

01:52:09.840 When you find the right woman as a young man, that is the most important thing.

01:52:15.400 So pursue that single-mindedly.

01:52:18.740 That's great advice.

01:52:19.840 It's amazing.

01:52:20.440 I'll tell you quickly.

01:52:21.320 One of Tucker's executive producers at the time told me, he'd been on the road a lot.

01:52:25.860 We saw each other at a Turning Point event a couple years back.

01:52:28.820 And he told me, when Tucker's unhappy, whenever, you know, he gets unhappy, he said it's rare.

01:52:35.320 And we're on the road traveling.

01:52:36.680 We know exactly what to do.

01:52:37.820 Susie needs to come.

01:52:39.000 She needs to come be with him.

01:52:40.440 Yeah.

01:52:40.760 We call it the celibacy rule.

01:52:42.300 And I would, it was the, yeah, I would always say, like, I'm not, it's just not good for, it's not, I'm just totally joking, sort of, not really, but in part about that.

01:52:51.460 But, no, it's just the balance.

01:52:53.240 You need the balance.

01:52:54.200 Like, that is, you're just out of whack, right?

01:52:58.460 You're not meant, man is not meant to be alone.

01:53:00.680 And neither is a woman.

01:53:02.340 And that's just a fact.

01:53:03.240 And I don't know why.

01:53:04.400 Yeah, I think it's very sinister, by the way, that we tell young people and old people and all people that that's not true.

01:53:09.920 Like, you're better off alone, really.

01:53:11.240 In what world are you better off alone?

01:53:13.120 No.

01:53:13.520 And it's just such an easy society to live in.

01:53:15.940 That's changing.

01:53:16.580 I think things are getting crazy.

01:53:17.700 And all of a sudden, I'm going to be like, actually, we kind of need men.

01:53:19.720 A lot of home invasions recently.

01:53:21.120 I need a man.

01:53:21.840 You know, like, it'll become obvious men's utility, I think, soon.

01:53:25.280 Yeah.

01:53:25.520 But for the past 80 years, it's been like, well, maybe it's just more efficient to be alone.

01:53:31.360 You know what I mean?

01:53:32.020 Like, you're a much better Citibank employee if you don't have dependents or whatever the thinking was.

01:53:36.980 But it's really hurt a lot of people.

01:53:38.920 No, when we launched the tour, and we started two weekends ago, right?

01:53:41.600 We started out in Texas.

01:53:44.380 And Doug and I talked about, like, do I go alone?

01:53:47.580 Like, should the family come?

01:53:49.220 Do you want to come to the kids at school?

01:53:50.860 And Doug said, I want to come for the first leg, at least.

01:53:53.780 You know, I want to see, like, I want to make sure everything's safe.

01:53:56.100 I want to see what this feels like.

01:53:57.800 And he did.

01:53:58.460 He came with us through Texas.

01:54:00.420 And he's here tonight.

01:54:01.660 And my kids are here tonight, too.

01:54:03.500 And they wanted to meet all of you.

01:54:06.940 And we both felt so much better.

01:54:09.580 You know, because the first weekend out, it was a little disconcerting because we didn't know, is the security going to be okay?

01:54:14.740 Is the audience going to be okay?

01:54:15.900 Like, is everything safe?

01:54:16.880 Obviously, we're all still thinking about Charlie.

01:54:19.360 And I have to say, like, Doug felt much better seeing how it was all being handled.

01:54:23.360 Sorry for all the security he had to go through.

01:54:24.760 And I felt much better just having him with me.

01:54:28.220 And it's like, if you can find love in your life, it's just, of course, you get the benefits of love and connection and family, children, raising kids together.

01:54:35.520 But you also get the benefits of, in those tougher times or where you're uncertain or you're unsteady, you've got this life partner who's got you, you know, who's just got you.

01:54:45.560 And I love that you have that.

01:54:47.220 I want all of you to have that.

01:54:48.600 I want you boys and girls to have that.

01:54:51.600 And I love all of you for having me, too.

01:54:55.300 Thank you.

01:54:56.040 Thanks for being here.

01:54:57.660 Thank you, Tucker Carlson.

01:54:59.200 Love you.

01:54:59.920 You're the best.

01:55:00.100 Thank you, Megan.

01:55:01.160 The best.

01:55:02.760 God bless you guys.

01:55:04.100 Thank you, White Plains.

01:55:05.520 We'll see you tomorrow on the show.

01:55:10.060 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:55:12.300 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:55:18.600 We'll see you tomorrow on the show.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 06, 2025

Tucker Carlson on Interviewing Fuentes, America First, and Demons and UFOs - ＂Megyn Kelly Live＂ From New York ｜ Ep. 1188

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