00:00:30.000All right, quick huddle. You know what gets people into trouble in this business? Thinking they need to have all the answers themselves. That's where things start breaking down. Because the best decisions usually come from looking at the problem from more than one angle. That's how you spot the blind spots. With Purpose Investments, you get better systems, better conversations, better people around you. Because one point of view is missing the point. Let's bring it in.
00:00:53.240The full pep talk series from Purpose Investments is up now on Spotify and Apple Music, built for advisors who are in the thick of it.
00:01:00.880Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:01:12.560Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Wednesday. We have a great show for you today.
00:01:17.660the thief has been identified. We now know who stole that New York Knicks trash can in the viral
00:01:24.660video from the championship parade. Who steals the trash can? I mean, how much of a low life do
00:01:29.540you have to be to pick up a full trash can, dump all of the trash on the sidewalk of the city
00:01:36.440you're supposed to be celebrating, and then steal the trash can? You're not going to believe who it
00:01:43.220was. Actually, you will totally believe it, but you're going to eye roll. Plus, Chamath Palahapitiya
00:01:49.600is here. I never say it right, but we are French math from the All In podcast. He's going to be
00:01:54.880here to tell us what we need to know about the latest with AI, and he's got some really helpful
00:02:00.660insights on it. But we begin today with the Democratic Party taking a giant leap to the left
00:02:06.120last night in New York City as voters rejected the establishment candidates and delivered
00:02:11.620victories for the three candidates backed by socialist mayor Zoran Mamdani in primaries
00:02:18.420for House seats. Okay, this was not the general election, but New York being what it is,
00:02:23.220it might as well be. And boy, are we going hardcore left in Manhattan. It's very interesting
00:02:30.400to me because when Mamdani got elected, I know tons of Republicans who are actually operatives
00:02:36.200within the party who were saying they couldn't wait to make him the face of the Democrat party.
00:02:41.900And they thought that would be very good for Republicans. Depends on where you are,
00:02:46.820because in New York, he's, he's a hero. I mean, he's becoming extremely strong and formidable
00:02:55.400as a kingmaker within the Democrat party. And, you know, New York is not considered extreme
00:03:03.040by most Democrats. Like it's how they see their own party and how they see the world and generally
00:03:09.480where they'd like to take their own party. The far left is ascendant within team blue. And there
00:03:15.780are some key reasons why that's so. Let me just give you a couple of the updates. And I'm going
00:03:20.260to bring in Mark Halperin to talk about what this all means. In New York house district, uh, seven
00:03:26.700state assembly woman, Claire Valdez, defeating Brooklyn borough president Antonio Reynoso after
00:03:32.740campaigning on her staunch opposition to Israel. In New York 10, former city comptroller Brad
00:03:40.480Lander defeating incumbent Dan Goldman, who's been such a thorn in the president's side and so
00:03:46.020blindly loyal to Joe Biden and was trying to tell us that he did so great at the debate. I mean,
00:03:51.620that's how much of a loyalist he was. A lot of good it did him. He lost by more than 30 points
00:03:56.300last night. Lander saying, we need to reset our relationship with Israel. Now he wasn't quite as0.98
00:04:03.580extreme on the issue of Israel as some of these other candidates, but Dan Goldman was super pro
00:04:07.560Israel. So the contrast was stark. Um, and that, but the candidate who takes the cake last night
00:04:16.000is, all right, this is a tough one. I got to, it's helpful if I can see it written down. Okay.
00:04:22.280it's dara it's very tough dariliza oliva chevalier and she beat a five-term incumbent chevalier we're
00:04:36.000going to go with she beat a five-term incumbent who's also chair of the congressional hispanic
00:04:41.060caucus but not woke enough for mom donnie's new york city and once again israel was key here she1.00
00:04:50.040hates Israel and AIPAC. And it was not afraid to say it. And she wasn't afraid to say a bunch of
00:04:57.800other crazy shit either. I mean, like this woman is out there. If this is the future of electoral1.00
00:05:03.560politics in Manhattan, thank God we moved and it cannot spread. I mean, honestly, like my own views
00:05:11.420on Israel have changed, but my God, this person, she wants to abolish the police, prisons, ICE,
00:05:20.540the US Senate, the Supreme Court. This is as radical as you can go. And she just won
00:05:30.800the Democrat primary in New York for New York 13. Now, if she's elected as she is expected to be
00:05:40.380in her deep blue district. They're not going to go with a Republican in the general.0.99
00:05:44.700She will be one of, if not the most radical far left candidates in the history of Congress.0.85
00:05:49.980Someone described her as AOC, but left, like as if AOC is not left. They're both Democrat
00:05:56.720socialists, a party that really should, should be in the dustbin of history, but instead is
00:06:03.080ascendant. This woman's a 32 year old community organizer. Cause we needed another one of those0.94
00:06:08.180in electoral politics, and a PhD candidate at the at CUNY City University of New York.
00:06:14.180Chevalier is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America and a recent convert to Islam at age
00:06:18.30032. You'll be shocked, shocked, shocked to hear she went to Columbia University. Not only are
00:06:23.780they making you an anti-Semite if you come out of Columbia University, they're making you actually0.77
00:06:28.160convert to Islam. I mean, they've really gone next level at Columbia. I would never send my0.78
00:06:35.760child there. I've told my children, you want to go to Columbia? You can pay for it yourself. No,
00:06:39.540we're not paying for that. You're not going there. Not that they want to, but I'm just saying it's
00:06:43.340like in New York, which is close to us. You'd think we'd normally like take a look at a school
00:06:47.060like that. It's a hard, hard pass on that place. Uh, she calls the notorious protester at Columbia,
00:06:54.380Columbia university, Mahmoud Khalil. Remember that guy, a friend and her campaign website
00:06:59.280says that she quote provides legal aid to victims of police brutality for the public
00:07:05.080defender's office in Harlem. Now that last part, that's kind of standard Democrat fare.
00:07:10.440It's this other crazy stuff that has her standing out in a field of wackos. All right, here's just0.94
00:07:16.100a sampling of her now deleted social media posts dug up by the New York Post and by CNN. In June
00:07:21.620of 2020, she responds to a tweet about what it means to abolish the police. Quote, it means ending
00:07:27.720police, full stop, period. No more police at all, ever. I love her honesty. It's very harmful
00:07:35.680to the work black abolitionists have been doing for decades to dilute this movement.0.89
00:07:41.320If you are not fully on board yet, it's fine to just say that, unquote. Full, no more cops. She0.84
00:07:48.640wants to abolish policing. December 23rd, 2019, quote, I forgot to get napkins, so I just wiped
00:07:55.620my hand on the American flag behind me, unquote, just lovely. Why is it like, if you're a Democrat
00:08:02.380socialist, why do you have to hate America too? And why is in this faction on the left that's
00:08:08.560growing, that's like got questions about Israel. I mean, they really, the left really can't stand
00:08:12.760Israel. Why do you have to hate America too? Like that I don't get. Even I get why Israel's
00:08:17.640extremely controversial now, even within a large faction of the Republican party. But like,
00:08:21.460How does that take you to America hatred? For the leftists, at least the extreme ones, it does.
00:08:28.560And she's exhibit A. In June 2021, when Kamala Harris encouraged migrants from Central America0.54
00:08:34.460to stop making the dangerous trek to the U.S., Chevalier wrote, quote, I have no nuance to add.0.99
00:08:42.500Fuck Kamala Harris. Well, in that week and all, I mean, she's, is she all wrong about everything?1.00
00:08:48.480maybe there's like some piece on Kamala's Venn diagram on which we can find common ground with
00:08:54.940our soon to be new elected congresswoman from New York. There's a lot more, but I want to bring in
00:09:00.320Mark Halpern now. He's host of Next Up with Mark Halpern right here on the MK Media Network. You
00:09:05.920can find Next Up by just searching wherever you get your podcasts and then downloading and make
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00:10:20.400Megan. Mark, your reaction on kind of the bombshells that happened in these three races in
00:10:26.460New York last night. Well, I think it's easy to overstate it, but it's easier to understate it
00:10:32.260because it's not just New York, it's Michigan with Maine with Graham Plattner. It's probably
00:10:36.260going to be Michigan with Dr. El-Sayed. And the energy and power in the Democratic Party is with
00:10:42.360this wing of the party. It's not it's Israel. It's anti-establishment. It's anti-ice. It's0.90
00:10:48.160pro-radicalism. And Democrats have ignored this for 10 years. For 10 years, since Bernie Sanders
00:10:56.680had the nomination stolen from him by the establishment in 2016, the parties pretended
00:11:02.060it as best they could, that they weren't being dominated by the energy and power of the radical
00:11:06.380wing of the party, the progressive wing. They speak for tens of millions. It's not like they
00:11:10.800don't have followers. But I don't think they're a majority of the party, but they're the loudest
00:11:14.900and angriest on the national town square. And what we saw last night with these three winners
00:11:20.020backed by Mondami, two incumbents beaten and one open seat, is they can win primaries in New York.
00:11:26.640As you said, that's a special beast. But they also want a primary in Michigan with Graham
00:11:30.460Plattner in Maine, rather. They may win a primary in the Michigan Senate race. And it's going to be
00:11:36.280fascinating in the context of the midterms and then the presidential to see if the wing of the
00:11:40.700party that says, we don't want to be a socialist party. We don't want a hostile takeover of the
00:11:46.920Democratic Party by the Socialist Party. We're going to have to stand up to that wing of the
00:11:51.120party. We'll see if anybody does it. Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries have known for a decade what's
00:11:55.920happening and they do not have the nerve and the courage and the skill to stand up to that wing of
00:12:02.320the party so we saw yesterday a specific new york city manifestation of it but it's happening
00:12:08.260everywhere within the party and it has been for a decade the the i've i've read a lot of analysis
00:12:14.780today as i'm sure you have too and people from both sides of the aisle seem to be coming to the
00:12:18.740same conclusion which is there was no issue that was more front and center in these races than
00:12:23.860Israel. And if you are running as a Democrat, like the conclusion, Jeremy Carl of the Hoover
00:12:32.040Institute in Claremont wrote as follows. Israel and in particular, AIPAC are absolutely toxic
00:12:38.040in a Democrat primary, especially anywhere vaguely progressive. Israel was arguably the0.83
00:12:43.980central issue in all three of these primaries. And the candidate that was more hostile to Israel,
00:12:48.500one in each expect a lot of Democrats to swing much harder against both AIPAC and Israel going
00:12:55.460forward. Do you agree with that, Mark? Well, I largely agree, although in Maryland last night
00:13:00.380in a less watched primary, a Democrat who got tons of money from AIPAC, who was the establishment
00:13:05.980choice of Steny Hoyer, the retiring leader whose district it is now, that guy won. And so it's not
00:13:15.940and maryland's not a you know a conservative state it's a very liberal state so it's not a
00:13:20.520hundred percent but i agree that uh israel and and and american jews and apac have very quickly
00:13:28.560become in both parties a very a very emotional issue and i agree that uh it's it's it takes a
00:13:36.780lot there's some exceptions like congressman godheimer of new jersey it takes a lot for an
00:13:41.400official to go out of his or her way to speak out against this some of them maybe choose to hide
00:13:47.740and not speak out for or against this this trend but there's no doubt now that if you were to say
00:13:55.100in any democratic primary almost anywhere in the country if there's a if there's a single litmus
00:14:00.320test if there's a single emotional issue that could make or break candidacy it would be this
00:14:05.860and and opponents of apac would say well yeah the guy in maryland won but they had to spend millions
00:14:10.980of dollars to get him the nomination. Why do you say American Jews too? Because I see that Israel's
00:14:17.160clearly an issue and AIPAC is clearly an issue, but I think only, you know, weird bigoted people
00:14:25.740extend it to American Jews as part of the issue. Yeah. It's a very difficult thing to discuss
00:14:30.820because, um, it's uncomfortable and there's not a lot of polling data on it because posters don't
00:14:35.920want to poll on it. Um, I'm, I'm writing a piece of that. Like, what do you mean? Like,
00:14:39.980how do you like the Jews? Yeah. Yeah. Do you know, do you feel favored? And it's a tough1.00
00:14:44.620thing to pull. It's an awkward thing to ask. And are people going to be honest? Here's what I
00:14:49.600draw on. If you look at human history, as long as there have been Jews, how have the Jews been
00:14:56.060treated? Not that well. A lot of people don't like Jews. So I just, I don't think you can take
00:15:02.120it out of the equation. Now, I've got relatives who are Jews who are very angry at Israel. So
00:15:08.420it's not it's not that everyone with a strong position about israel is anti-semitic of course
00:15:14.280and and the point of view of being of questioning netanyahu of questioning israel's activities of
00:15:20.400questioning apex activities those are all legitimate conversations to have and the views
00:15:25.280of tens of millions of people but you can't you can't ignore human history you can't ignore that
00:15:31.620some of this you can't quantify it some of it for some people and i would say not an insignificant
00:15:37.440significant number of people is driven by this. Let me give you something that falls in the cracks
00:15:42.040between just a public policy view of Israel and anti-Semitism. The Democratic Party has become a0.60
00:15:48.240very secular party. The polling data is quite clear on that. Jews, some people say it's an
00:15:54.060ethnicity, but it's also a religion. And so I think you're going to see some people say,
00:16:00.280well, I've had negative feelings towards Jews because they're religious. That's not quite
00:16:06.960anti-Semitism, but it is a point of view that I think animates some of this for some people.
00:16:13.220It can't just be about Israel and Netanyahu. It just can't be because it's far too powerful and
00:16:18.980far too emotional. There are plenty of public policy issues that involve human rights, that
00:16:24.100involve violence. Why don't they feel this way about China? Why don't they feel this way about0.97
00:16:30.980Putin. So I don't think you can ignore for some people that this is a, this is an element within
00:16:37.960the, within the party. And I'd say for some people within the Republican party as well.
00:16:43.400I mean, I think, unfortunately, there are some people who conflate those two things,
00:16:47.300but I think the vast majority of people in America who are critical of Israel have come
00:16:50.440to it. Honestly, they watched what happened in Gaza for two freaking years. They've,
00:16:54.300they've watched them drag us into this Iran war. They're, they're mad about it. You know,
00:16:58.700it's like they don't want to fight Israel's battles. They don't want them getting us into0.96
00:17:02.220trouble. They don't want AIPAC having this much control over our lawmakers. Get out. Go back to
00:17:08.480your own country and lobby your lawmakers. Get out of ours. And they're having feelings like that.
00:17:12.740Even people like me, who had been very pro-Israel, have turned on it because of things like that.0.73
00:17:17.500It has nothing to do with Jews. All of my best friends are Jewish. And honestly, they feel the
00:17:24.220way i do like my closest friend in the world who's who's jewish culturally religiously and all that
00:17:29.920she couldn't care less about how you feel about israel you know it's like there's only like a
00:17:35.120certain strain of american you could be jewish you could be christian that makes israel like the
00:17:40.520stakes for which the relationship plays you know like you can't we can't be friends any longer if
00:17:46.080you're not going to support israel that's it's a very and and it doesn't it's not based at all on
00:17:49.920whether that person is Jewish. I agree with you 100% that that's the dominant thing and that
00:17:55.120those positions are perfectly reasonable, well within intellectual understanding and political
00:18:01.580discourse. I'm just saying that there's some of this, can't quantify it. You look at how Jews
00:18:09.000have been treated through human history, you just can't say, well, America's the first country in
00:18:13.240the world that doesn't have anti-Semitism. That just, it's got to be part of it.0.82
00:18:17.600Oh, no, we haven't. We do. We haven't. But I just I would submit that is not what this is about, because look what's happening within the Republican Party. Was the Republican Party 20 percent anti-Semitic all along? And now it just happens to dovetail with their opposition to Israel. They were just latently like keeping their anti-Jew feelings quiet. I don't I don't believe that.
00:18:38.240What could it be? Like what else has happened in the world over the past couple of years that we saw directly affect Democrat support go right down, independent support go off a cliff?
00:18:49.360No more independent support, Israel. And even Republicans start to turn. Could it could it be Gaza? Could it be Iran?0.84
00:18:56.380You know, it's like whatever. OK, let's keep going with it. Because one thing that is absolutely on the ascendance is Democratic socialism, which is, you know, we thought that was.0.98
00:19:06.140I don't know. I thought Mom Donnie was more of a one off because New York's been going further and further left.
00:19:13.160And I was among those people who thought, oh, he'll be a great poster boy to run against for Republicans.
00:19:19.440Well, I don't know. Here's Harry Enten, your pal of whom I am a fan, talking about the Democrat socialists versus the regular Dems in Congress and popularity.
00:19:34.880Among Democrats themselves, the Democratic Socialists of America have a higher net favor
00:19:40.440than the Democratic Party does, at least those who are members of Congress. I mean,
00:19:44.200just take a look here. Dem Socialists of America, plus 17 points. Democrats in Congress,
00:19:49.320plus four points. No wonder that Dem Socialists are getting nominated across the political map0.74
00:19:54.420in different primaries, because simply put, they are more popular than the Democrats currently in
00:19:58.720charge. OK, I'm just thinking back to when I was sitting here and Zora Mamdani was sitting there
00:20:02.680when he was running and I asked him about capitalism. Yes. And he had no problem saying
00:20:07.800that he had real issues with it. OK, he wasn't afraid to say it. By the way, he ended up winning.
00:20:12.600It didn't hurt him. How do Democrats today view socialism compared to capitalism? There's a reason
00:20:18.960why it didn't hurt him. And that is simply because this is one of the biggest political changes I've
00:20:22.900seen during my lifetime. Match up socialism, capitalism among Democrats. You go back 16 years
00:20:29.040ago, 2010, capitalism and socialism right there. Favorable rating, 51 percent, 50 percent. Look at
00:20:34.500it now. Socialism clearly in the lead among Democrats. Sixty six percent of them view
00:20:39.420socialism favorably. Just 42 percent view capitalism favorably. No wonder Mom Donnie had
00:20:43.820no problem blasting it. Oh, my Lord, Mark. Sixty six percent view of the Democrat Party
00:20:51.260views socialism favorably. Only 42 percent view capitalism favorably. So like you get out of the
00:20:58.520Israel thing. And the differences become really, really stark on where we all stand, even within
00:21:05.560the Democrat Party. So what's what's a Democrat to do? You not only have to be against Israel
00:21:10.400and AIPAC, which most of them are over on Team Blue, but you also have to be against capitalism
00:21:15.460now. This is where the media being liberally biased for Democrats, ironically, does not do
00:21:21.360Democrats any favors, because this has been growing, as Harry's data showed, for a couple
00:21:27.820decades. In the post-Bill Clinton era, the Democratic Party has moved further to the left
00:21:32.960than it has ever been in our lifetimes, at least. And the press doesn't cover it. The press doesn't
00:21:37.640say, well, you know, they can't be distracted from attacking Donald Trump and the Republican Party,
00:21:42.980pointing out the flaws there. They don't cover this. But this is an incredible development
00:21:48.480to have a party move this far to the left and have most of its leaders either ignore it or cater to
00:21:54.860it and um you know you you when when democrats wonder why donald trump has been able to win
00:22:01.620uh two presidential elections and get very close in the third um they don't really do any soul
00:22:07.260searching to say well maybe it's because we've become a party of social of socialists uh a
00:22:12.940religious socialists and it's it's right there they're leading in it's right there in the data
00:22:18.540And and it'll be interesting to see if anybody stands up to them in the midterms, if anybody within the party or if anybody stands up to them within within the context of the 2028 presidential election.
00:22:31.620But they have moved really far to the left on economics, on law enforcement, for those who say abolish ICE, on cultural issues like on trance.
00:22:42.000And no mystery why Donald Trump, who's got his own deep flaws as a candidate in terms of unpopular positions, no mystery why he's able to win.
00:22:52.500Because they have, as was said in the previous era, they're so left, they've left America on a range of important issues.
00:23:00.240Here is this Chevalier who was asked recently about some of her very controversial deleted tweets, some of which we read at the top.
00:27:51.800You know, he got he got screened. He didn't come close. And remember, he got the endorsement of Nancy Pelosi. He got a ton of favorable press coverage. He was from the start an unserious person. It's my congressional district. It's filled with very serious people. And the guy who won is a perfectly serious establishment candidate.
00:28:10.540But I was dubious about his prospects from the start, and I don't know exactly why he failed, but I'm certain that part of why he failed was because he was a clown and had no business thinking he should be a member of Congress.
00:28:24.400And this generation of Kennedys maybe is not as distinguished as some of the previous ones.
00:28:46.360For a first-time candidate, Mr. Schlossberg seemingly had it all.
00:28:50.040A scion of the Kennedy family, once America's most famous political brand,
00:28:54.600young and handsome, much like his grandfather, the progenitor of Camelot.
00:28:59.840He was well-connected, earning endorsements from Democratic royalty,
00:29:04.380like former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and old money rich,
00:29:07.680able to pour his own fortune into a campaign he said was in part about the evils of money
00:29:13.000in politics. And in an age in which Democrats have often played catch up with Republicans online,
00:29:20.000Mr. Schlossberg had a vibrant and social media presence presenting an oddball and decidedly
00:29:26.700opinionated persona that drew attention whenever he posted. He literally was talking about, forgive
00:29:32.380of me, jizz cocktails. All right. There was nothing vibrance and just oddball, just a little oddball.
00:29:39.820Yeah. Oddball's a good euphemism. Two more. When early polls showed him in front of a crowded
00:29:45.200field of candidates in New York City's 12th congressional district, it seemed the race
00:29:48.460was his to lose. As it turned out, he lost it. Schlossberg's defeat also comes as the Kennedy
00:29:54.320family has also grappled with the defection of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Mr. Schlossberg's cousin
00:29:59.880to a Republican administration where he serves as the health secretary under President Trump.0.52
00:30:05.680Even People Magazine's headline wasn't as ridiculous as this New York Times one.
00:30:09.680The People Magazine headline was Jack Schlossberg loses his first election
00:30:12.900in heated Manhattan congressional primary. New York, the defeat dampens dream of a renewed
00:30:18.680Camelot. This guy was never going to be delivering a renewed Camelot, Mark Halperin.
00:30:23.200No, he's a cuckoo Kennedy. He's not like, there's literally nothing about,
00:30:28.620to extent anybody sees anything appealing about him and i did not there's nothing kennedy-esque
00:30:33.740about his appeal he's he's just kind of like was kind of like a quirky kooky outsider and young
00:30:40.940but he's not a good candidate and he was not kennedy-esque he was just happened to be named
00:30:45.420uh you know be a member of the kennedy family but man what a what a misguided thing you know
00:30:51.340there's all these democratic consultants now like the people who got platner in the race
00:30:55.100who and Mondami's consultants who are just they're just enablers of candidates who don't
00:31:00.480necessarily think through whether the person can actually win. In the case of this guy,
00:31:04.680I mean, they they should they should refund his money.
00:31:09.140Well, the man who showed up at President Trump's State of the Union this past year
00:31:14.560with a sign that read black people aren't apes, as if President Trump needed to be told that0.99
00:31:22.960al green has lost his seat in the u.s congress he's out finally mark he was sort of a shitster0.98
00:31:29.860at a lot of these state of the union addresses for republicans that is he's out nancy mace0.85
00:31:35.860she's out too she lost um jasmine crockett's going are all the shitsters going um matt gates
00:31:43.700is already gone um he's already gone yeah mtg's gone it's a good point we're losing a lot of them
00:31:50.220uh Bobert still there uh uh you know uh Jamie Raskin you count him in the same category0.58
00:31:57.560he's a bit of a shit stir I don't know I mean we've we've lost a lot of them we've lost a lot0.67
00:32:03.300of them true we have yeah we've lost gone but not forgotten um wait who's the other one that0.99
00:32:11.180was going to talk about who did you just say Deb or I've heard oh George Conway George Conway
00:32:16.700didn't make it either did even worse than he was running for that he did worse than even the uh
00:32:20.680the quirky kennedy yeah and he was running for the same seat now last but not least
00:32:25.440i saw you tweet out this morning post on x you know just when i thought i couldn't be shocked
00:32:32.340in in politics president trump manages to shock me um because today he was all set to have this
00:32:41.000big signing ceremony for a new signature piece of legislation on affordability, attacking the
00:32:48.120housing market inequities, trying to, among other things, ban big firms like BlackRock from swooping
00:32:54.200in and buying up big blocks of houses, making it tougher for some people to buy affordable housing.
00:33:00.080And this was going to address some affordability concerns. And more importantly, in politics,
00:33:07.780going to make it look like he was addressing affordability concerns for average Americans.
00:33:13.800They're going to have the big signing ceremony. And President Trump just canceled it and said he
00:33:19.380won't be signing it. So he's got he it's it's passed, but he's not going to sign it because
00:33:26.680he says he's insisting that they push through the Save Act, which is going to require universal
00:33:32.780voter ID and tighten screening procedures before you can vote in an election. And I get it. Almost
00:33:40.640all of his party wants the SAVE Act passed, but it has zero chance of passing Mark Halpern. It's
00:33:47.280not going to get, it won't get a vote. If it did get a vote, it wouldn't pass. They don't have the
00:33:53.060votes to pass it, even if they could get it past a filibuster. So it has, so he's tanking legislation
00:34:00.820that actually could be good for people and for him and Republicans politically in the name of
00:34:05.780a different piece of legislation that's very popular on the right, but has zero chance of
00:34:09.240going anywhere. What do you make of it? Well, they could get it passed if they could get it
00:34:12.420passed the filibuster. They just can't get it passed the filibuster and they can't get Republicans.
00:34:16.140I don't think so. They don't have the votes. They have 50 votes to pass.
00:34:19.980No, they don't. No, they do not. They don't. No, Collins is against it. Murkowski is against it.
00:34:26.980Tillis is against it. And so is McConnell. That's what they could pass.
00:34:29.960a, they could pass a version of it, not the version they voted on previously. They could
00:34:33.520get a lot of what he wanted, I believe, but they can't do it because they can't get, they
00:34:38.580can't break the filibuster. You know, maybe he'll change his mind again, but this was
00:34:45.240kind of, there was going to be a bipartisan signing ceremony. This bill is an incredible
00:34:49.160piece of legislation. Policy experts love it. The left loves it. MAG is fine with it
00:34:53.820or enthusiastic. It lost five Senate votes and very few House votes. And the president
00:34:59.900was going to be able to go up to Capitol Hill and say, I'm signing into law a bill that will help
00:35:05.660with affordability on housing, which is one of the, as you know, one of the big areas people
00:35:09.760really care about. And he's chosen to scuttle it for, as you said, a piece of legislation that
00:35:14.220cannot pass. So it's confusing. It's confusing why he did it. But the president likes leverage,
00:35:22.380and I guess he thinks he has leverage here, but he doesn't. And maybe they'll reschedule it. But
00:35:26.960it's just a very odd decision that caught many Republicans on Capitol Hill by surprise.
00:35:33.300It's the old cutting off the nose to spite the face routine. Like, this is a win. Like,
00:35:38.740go take your win. You can't get the thing you're threatening. Like, we wish you could,
00:35:44.420but you can't. It's very odd. So why not take a win? The president has had a rough news cycle.
00:35:49.720I mean, people are behind the settlement of this around war, but the past few months have
00:35:54.360been rough, rough on the president's poll numbers. This is a win. Maybe he'll change his mind and
00:35:58.780sign it, but it's not, it's going to, it's going to not get the same kind of coverage it would
00:36:02.580have gotten. It was going to get triumphal coverage. Donald Trump goes to Capitol Hill,
00:36:06.760signs a popular piece of legislation on affordability and housing, uh, with massive
00:36:11.400bipartisan support. And he's just, for now, at least he's choosing to put a damper on it.
00:36:18.040It's confusing. I don't get it. It's very confusing. All right. But as we close out
00:36:23.140the segment. We're glad Al Green is gone. We're glad Schlossberg and Conway did not make it.
00:36:28.640We're not so grateful for these weird, radical Democrat socialists ascending into New York
00:36:35.840politics because it's probably a harbinger of things to come on a nationwide level. Do we agree?
00:36:41.400Good summary. Outstanding. All right. We agree. There's something for everyone in that one.
00:36:45.720Mark Halperin, a pleasure as always, my friend. Great to see you, Megan. Thank you.
00:36:49.080All right, don't forget to go subscribe to Next Up with Mark Halperin so you can get Mark's and his favorite guests insightful political analysis.
00:36:58.760Political season's starting to gear back up, guys.
00:37:00.880So now's a great time if you haven't subscribed to go and do it Next Up with Mark Halperin.
00:37:05.660And next up right here on the MK Show, we will be joined by Chamath of the All In podcast.
00:37:10.900He's a billionaire, so he's going to have thoughts on all of these things and the economy and the affordability issues and AI and all of it.
00:39:08.440And the radical the radical nature of these three.
00:39:12.200I'm just going to play another soundbite from this woman, Chevalier, who take a listen to what she said here in SOT54 comparing Israel and the United States.
00:39:23.980And I've seen a lot of similarities, not just in the way things are done, but also in the very institutions that are enacting that violence.
00:39:31.180The tear gas that was being dropped on Palestinians in Gaza in 2014 was the same tear gas that was being dropped on black protesters in Ferguson in 2014.
00:39:39.420And that memory, that summer for me, was incredibly formative because it showed me that connection is not only one that is like, but it is the very same system.
00:41:32.260When social media really started to proliferate and the currency became about attention, the outrage machine and the attention you could get from that trumped everything else.
00:41:46.120It just cascaded through all of society.
00:41:48.940and now what you're seeing is the next generation of that which is a much more refined form of
00:41:54.040outrage that i think like when you unpeel what they're saying beyond the articulate words and
00:41:59.420the well-presented nature is really scary and this is the kind of insidious thing that i think
00:42:04.860we have to confront so what has happened in those three countries they have veered so far off course
00:42:12.000over many years of allowing this outrage to build up and they've manifested in completely
00:42:18.620open borders, economic policy that didn't make sense. A lot of the things that people are talking
00:42:23.640about now have been experimented in those countries and have turned out clearly to be a
00:42:28.100pretty abysmal failure. But what have those countries interestingly done in the last six
00:42:34.380months? All three have instituted a ban on social media for kids 16 and under. And I think this is
00:42:44.480a huge thing. Why? Because we, you look, Megan, you have children same age as my children. We all
00:42:51.020know habits engender behavior. If you want kids to eat well, you can't feed them candy when they're
00:42:57.360kids. If you want kids to learn how to sleep well and manage their body and exercise, you have to
00:43:01.600teach those habits as a kid. If you want them to speak a second language, you have to speak that1.00
00:43:06.080language at home. There are just basic rules that then guide these children as adults. I think if
00:43:12.020you deprive an entire generation of social media, I think you'll see the incentives change because
00:43:18.040their desire to be fed by this attention outrage machine will be less than this current generation
00:43:26.360of people that live on it. And I think in that, they'll hopefully be able to sort through
00:43:31.340what is normal and what is clearly crazy. Even when it's presented by people that look and sound
00:44:08.820A couple of thoughts on that. One, I hope you're right on the social media. I'm concerned it's more like you had no cocaine your entire life and then you had cocaine and you're like, holy crap, this stuff's amazing. Watch me go. Thank God this is finally introduced to me. That worries me about the social media thing.
00:44:28.940um secondly on what's happening on the left i actually think what we saw last night in new
00:44:35.860york is not that far afield from what we saw with trump's election and then re-election
00:44:40.640where there is a segment of the population that is just so
00:44:44.440done with the systems as they are now this feels so unserved by government by the choices that
00:44:53.080their you know predecessors have made they can't buy a house they can't get a meaningful job
00:44:58.120they can't take a vacation that they're just willing to try something different and so even
00:45:02.900though maybe they knew maybe they didn't that this this woman's party for example the chevalier but
00:45:08.360all three of them are democratic socialists as i said a moment ago wants to defund the pentagon
00:45:13.240abolish the u.s senate he wants universal amnesty wants uh to replace the president and the supreme
00:45:18.300court with something else wants no no more policing no more incarceration it's uh kind of0.60
00:45:24.680like it's like a dystopian version of idiocracy meets the handmaid's tale it sounds insane
00:45:30.040yes but they're like that socialism stuff in the middle of all that sounds good well this is where
00:45:37.540i don't want to read one more article about sam altman or elon and his trillion dollars sure i
00:45:43.500want to take a vacation sure uh this is where i think you're you're bringing up something really
00:45:48.880important. I don't want to completely dismiss where they're coming from in their rhetoric,
00:45:55.260because to your point, what they're also able to do beyond capture the outrage to get distribution,
00:46:01.760that's a lot of, you know, a lot of the stuff that they say initiates that way. But then underneath,
00:46:07.140what are they speaking to the economic insecurity of a plurality of Americans, clearly, and they're
00:46:12.480able to exploit it and take advantage of it and give their version of what should happen,
00:46:16.900which is essentially some version of let's dismantle and take from people that are making
00:46:22.240things and redistribute that which on you know we know doesn't work and it's never worked and
00:46:28.680i think it never will work so what can we take away from them to your point that is actually
00:46:33.640worth taking away it is that we are at this moment where people have been beating the drum
00:46:39.880since Trump won around economic insecurity.
00:48:53.060Like, honestly, the people who are suffering in New York City, this woman Chevalier,
00:48:57.140what's she going to be able to do for them?1.00
00:48:58.560nothing but she's going to be able to create a lot of chaos and slow things down and gum up the
00:49:03.840system and you know i mean you talked with mark about the housing bill that just passed
00:49:08.880there is the potential for government in moments to do some really useful and good things
00:49:16.400there was an enormous amount of upside i think in the one big beautiful bill it cleaned up a
00:49:25.280bunch of regulation, it cleaned up a bunch of grifty, you know, tax credit schemes that were
00:49:30.900just bogging down the economy and just wasting money. In this housing bill, I read, I don't know
00:49:37.060much about it, but I read one very clever feature, which I thought, wow, this makes so much sense.
00:49:41.740You know, everybody rails about how hard it is to get local state governments to do anything,
00:49:47.380you know, to get a permit to do anything. And they had two things, Megan, that I thought was
00:49:50.520brilliant. One was, if you have a building to the left of you and a building to the right of you,
00:49:54.680You don't need an economic and environmental review because clearly these two buildings had to go through all of this for years. So just build what you want to build. And second, if I'm just buying from a home builder and I'm just taking a pattern that they've built 10 times, why do I need all these extra permits?
00:50:09.700So there are ways that governments can just step in in very tactical, precise ways to just get out of our own way.
00:50:19.020And what it turns out is other Americans are very clever and industrious and are then able to make things for you that you want.
00:50:27.540That's where I think government plays a huge role.
00:50:29.960And I think when you whack back regulation and regulatory capture, you generally allow you and me and all of the other people in this country to just take care of ourselves and each other.
00:50:42.040And it always works out better that way.
00:50:45.820Unfortunately, they've been sold a bill of goods on what the next gen DSA candidate can do for them.
00:50:53.000And they're about to learn the hard way.
00:53:53.860But at this point, you know, how could you support how could I or any American voters support a political party that's not loyal to the United States that puts the interest of a foreign country above those of its own citizens like that's that's you know, it's not possible to vote for people like that.
00:54:09.900that I'm not going to. And I think I voted Republican my entire life. I worked at Fox
00:54:14.840News, CNN, MSNBC. I've been a consistent defender for 35 years of the Republican Party. I mean,
00:54:23.160very consistent defender. But there's no defending this because it's immoral. And it's exactly the
00:54:28.540opposite of what a political party in a democracy is charged with doing, which is representing
00:54:34.700its own voters, its own citizens, its own nation. And they're not doing that. So no, I'm out. And
00:54:40.400if I'm out, then I think a lot of other people are out. Wow. It's the can't be censored podcast.
00:54:46.820Yeah, pretty extraordinary. There is a growing wing within the GOP that I think feels the way
00:54:51.660Tucker does. But what do you see happening here on on the red team as we go into these midterms
00:54:58.640and then beyond? Because, you know, right now there's there are thought pieces out on how,
00:55:02.860for example, over on the blue team, Josh Shapiro's out. The Democrats are not going to vote
00:55:08.360for even a Jewish man, never mind a Jewish man who supports Israel. That's extreme. But I do
00:55:15.960wonder what it's going to do to Republican politics going forward. Yeah, I share these
00:55:20.060same concerns with you. I find this incredibly concerning. Many of my closest friends are Jewish
00:55:25.920And I love Israel. I had the honor of working there very early in my career. I would spend time in Tel Aviv, spend time in Jerusalem. The people are unbelievable. Frankly, most of the people I've ever met in the Middle East have been unbelievable.
00:55:43.860like in every country there, UAE, Israel, particularly those two countries have spent
00:55:48.220more time than any place else. So this idea that, you know, we have an issue with Israel needs to
00:55:56.660be separated from, do we have an issue with the current leadership of Israel versus Israelis
00:56:02.440versus Jews? And I think that's a really important distinction that we have to make.
00:56:07.480I think that people are hitting a level of exhaustion with BB. And I think it's important
00:56:18.540to acknowledge that and then ask the question, is it time for what more does BB need to accomplish
00:56:26.880at this point where he can sort of say, okay, in his view, not defending it, but in his view,
00:56:32.540whatever he felt needed to be done, maybe he can say he can declare victory and step to
00:56:37.460the side so that Israel can find a firmer footing on the global stage. Because I think what is0.77
00:56:43.200happening, unfortunately, is that that leadership is creating a schism where it's forcing us to
00:56:52.340make very difficult decisions. I don't know if you've been watching, but America versus Europe
00:56:58.360is sort of falling along these lines as well about what's happening. I think it's very complicated
00:57:05.500and it's super concerning but i think if i could tell people that are watching um please think
00:57:12.080about whether you're actually anti-israel or anti-jew or whether you're just very frustrated
00:57:17.340with bb and i think that's a very reasonable claim to have but i would encourage you to not
00:57:23.080project that onto jews particularly jews in america uh jews at large or israelis at large
00:57:29.300These are, by and large, incredible human beings and people. And you can be upset with a leader, and that's allowed. And I think that that's reasonable. And there's enough fodder there where, you know, you can not be super happy with Bibi. But I would just try to make that distinction because it needs to be made.
00:57:49.380But it's a little more than Bibi because I'd be thrilled to see Bibi go.0.84
00:58:11.740I've been a critic of CARE for many, many, many years.
00:58:15.040By the way, no one ever gave me a hard time over that.
00:58:16.880But you become a critic of AIPAC and you get flooded with trolls in your in your ex account.
00:58:21.940But these foreign lobby groups, I mean, these these groups that are lobbying basically on behalf of a foreign country and their interests.
00:58:29.000And AIPAC is I mean, they are like NRA level in terms of their influence and control and how ubiquitous they are and how many politicians they've touched with their money that it's like now that's long.0.74
00:58:41.260That predates Bibi and it'll go on after Bibi.
00:58:43.460And that that's something people hold against Israel.
00:58:45.740Like, stop. Stop with the constant interference in our politics.
00:58:49.040You're bringing up a really important historical example when you make the comparison of AIPAC to NRA.
00:58:55.800In what way? Both of those organizations were incredibly sophisticated.
00:59:01.280They had huge ground games. They had an incredible fundraising apparatus.
00:59:07.280But what happened ultimately to the NRA?
01:01:25.560A lot of what I did there was the early table setting of AI.
01:01:30.080And then this next phase of my life, I was an investor and invested in a lot of AI related efforts and space and other things. But two years ago, I started a business in AI and I've spent most of my time. Now, maybe the question is, I didn't have to do that at 50 years old. I'm tired, exhausted, quite honestly, but why do I do it?
01:01:51.220I'm being really honest with you, not hyperbolic when I say this. It is the most important and
01:01:56.840powerful economic leveler I've ever seen. What does that mean? Going back to how we talked about
01:02:04.360we want to even the starting line, not even the finishing line. What is the most incredible thing
01:02:10.600that you could do to even the starting line? Well, imagine you and I, Megan, had to run the
01:02:14.020100-meter dash against Usain Bolt, but we were both given an exoskeleton that allowed us to run
01:02:19.920as fast as he did. That is an example of just trying to analogize what AI is in your pocket
01:02:28.040or in my pocket or any of your viewers' and listeners' pockets. It's not about knowledge
01:02:32.900anymore. It is about literally taking all of the expertise and intellect of the smartest humans
01:02:39.460that have ever lived and compacting that in a way where you can have that beside you effectively as
01:02:46.600your partner, as your analyst, as your doctor, as your co-founder, as your co-parent. So it allows
01:02:54.140you to do things that, frankly, we weren't able to do before. The reason we're here and why so
01:03:01.100many people have a negative view on AI has nothing to do with the product itself. It has everything
01:03:06.120to do with the personalities and the insecurities that have spilled out into the open amongst the
01:03:11.400players in this play and i think it's important to make sure we tell that story honestly because
01:03:18.120it would be a shame if this technology got negatively painted because of infighting and
01:03:25.440rancor and the kind of stuff that we're dealing with now you have for example like you talked
01:03:30.300about it with mark you know in the race where george conway got crushed and schlossberg was
01:03:35.520a nothing burger the real two candidates in that race was a pro ai person that was funded in a way
01:03:43.020from organizations that wanted to see progressive approaches to ai progressive i define as like
01:03:49.040let a thousand flowers bloom and then a bunch of doomers and the doomers said lock it all down
01:03:55.740let the government decide who gets it and how could you imagine if the government
01:03:59.880decided how you got access to healthcare information. Is that insane as it sounds?
01:04:06.780Because that's exactly what they're saying. And yet that organization, funded by NPROPIC,
01:04:13.600raised $21 million than they spent in that election. And they still lost. Thank God.
01:04:20.660So we have to now take the narrative back. We have to paint the reality. There's going to be
01:04:27.080some initial dislocation, but there's some huge pockets of wins right now that are happening
01:04:32.140economically. There are construction foremen, managers, engineers, plumbers, electricians.
01:04:38.780These folks are making hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
01:04:43.220Those economic benefits spill into the communities in which they're in. The taxes that are paid on
01:04:48.200these things are funding hospitals and schools at a level that hasn't happened before.
01:04:53.540the data centers you're talking about building and paying taxes on yeah all of this stuff is
01:04:59.280happening but where none of it gets told uh instead what it's being told is hey watch out
01:05:05.240the sky is falling and the problem with chicken little is you you don't believe him after a while
01:05:10.180because it turns out that the sky doesn't actually ever fall what is actually happening is he is
01:05:15.840projecting his insecurities into the public light to essentially gatekeep this technology
01:05:22.120by saying, it doesn't matter, you know,
01:06:16.480You don't worry about putting a generation out of work. That's what worries me. I think the details we're we're marching toward eliminating millions of white collar jobs. I don't think so. Without a whole lot of thought about it. I'll give you one. Here's Citadel CEO Ken Griffin in an interview in May. Listen to this at 45.
01:06:38.600Let me just share a few thoughts with you on this.
01:06:42.840Number one is, in the last few months, there has been a step change function in the productivity of the AI toolkit.
01:06:53.080It is profoundly more powerful than it was just nine months ago.
01:06:59.580And for us at Citadel, that has allowed us to unleash a much broader array of use cases for AI.
01:07:08.600And it has been really interesting to watch, to be blunt, work that we would usually do
01:07:15.320with people with masters and PhDs in finance over the course of weeks or months being done
01:07:21.920by AI agents over the course of hours or days.
01:07:26.900So these are not mid-tier white-collar jobs.
01:07:31.120These are like extraordinarily high-skilled jobs being, I'm going to pick a word, being
01:07:38.560automated by agentic AI. And I got to tell you, I went home one Friday actually fairly depressed
01:07:47.720by this. What do you make of it? I think that Ken Griffin is an incredibly brilliant investor
01:07:55.320and businessman. I think he's built an incredible business. And I think if you date stamp what he
01:07:59.700said and look 18 months from now, I will bet any amount of money, two things are true. One is that
01:08:07.840he actually has more people working at Citadel, not less. And two, his assets under management
01:08:12.700have gone up, not down. And on the margin, I suspect three, he's made more profits.
01:08:18.260What does that actually show? I think it's very reasonable for people to look at something that's
01:08:24.960incredibly powerful like this and not fully understand its totality. And I understand that.
01:08:30.580And I think it's extremely prudent for someone like Ken Griffin, who is very trustworthy,
01:08:34.180to actually paint a balanced approach. But I suspect when you ask him how to refine his opinion,
01:08:43.460you know, and as he refines his opinion, if you, you know, are able to ask him this exact same
01:08:47.320question, Megan, in a year and just ask precisely, did your business grow or shrink? Did the number
01:08:52.180of people go up or down? Did your AUM go up or down? And the people in your organization making
01:08:57.020more or less, I suspect the answer is more on all counts. And the reason I know this is in my
01:09:03.540business, that's what I see. I don't see myself displacing engineers or product managers or
01:09:11.060designers. Our business, 8090, we go in and we work with the largest organizations in America,
01:09:19.140the Global 1000, the most prestigious, big, complicated businesses, and the US government.
01:09:26.200In all of these cases, when we go in and we work with them and we use AI to improve their business,
01:09:32.140they grow more. They end up hiring more. They end up paying these people more. And you're right
01:09:39.400that people move up the stack in their capability in terms of the skills that they offer. Like I
01:09:45.340suspect when the Megyn Kelly show implements AI, using AI to maybe make short form clips for you,
01:09:52.100using AI to help market your show better, to sell ads, I suspect what happens is you will grow more,
01:09:58.400even more. I mean, you've had incredible success, but you'll be even more successful
01:10:01.960it'll auto translate you into umpteen languages now people all over the world will watch you
01:10:07.040your team will get bigger they're invariably going to ask that you pay the more you're going
01:10:12.840to have to do that um it's going to be a win and i think that there are going to be umpteen examples
01:10:19.180of this is why i'm saying we're in a moment in time where there's a vacuum and this vacuum has
01:10:23.960been filled by misdirection and misinformation by a small cohort of people that need two things
01:10:31.800They want absolute control, and they want all of the money because the way that they've approached this technology is extremely expensive.
01:11:15.100So for whatever set of decisions that Anthropic has made, they need all the money, all of it.
01:11:20.560So, when they talk to investors, they're trying to present this picture of this is going to be cataclysmic. You need to be on our side. And also, we need to make sure that we stage gate this because a bevy of competitors makes their access to capital harder.
01:11:36.500I think if everybody understood those incentives and at least thought about them for one second when you heard the Doomer narrative, you would probably balance what they're saying and say, maybe they're saying what's right, or maybe this is a very fancy soundbite to advance their agenda and take a second to understand their agenda and judge for yourself.
01:11:56.520Is it true that Anthropic went from $1 billion to $44 billion in revenue in 17 months?
01:12:07.780So this is a very complicated question. And the reason why is they're very opaque in how they
01:12:17.560report revenue. And they have every right to. So let me be clear. They're not a public company.
01:12:22.520they're not subject to public reporting standards. They publish what they feel like they should
01:12:27.420publish. And frankly, they publish what, you know, the minimum that they can get away with
01:12:32.760to their investors. It is very hard to really know underneath the hood what that revenue means.
01:12:39.660Meaning, is it actually recurring where you and I are on the long-term contract and we have to pay
01:12:44.960this? Is it one-time revenue? Is it coming from a handful of folks? Is it coming from a long tail?
01:12:50.660What is true is that their revenue is going absolutely parabolic, again, because the quality of their business is undeniable. The quality of what they've built is undeniable. And so they've had enormous success. I can't speak to the actual numbers because there's a level of opacity that, you know, for a person like me.
01:13:10.120Well, let me get at it a different way, because it seems to me the level of investment in
01:13:18.120companies like Anthropic and beyond has, I don't know, triple, quadruple?
01:13:32.360So if I were to ask you, separate apart from whether it's good or bad, if I were to ask
01:13:35.760you you take any industry in america and inject it with five six hundred billions in in investments
01:13:43.200what's going to happen to that industry i mean it's a great question okay it's about to take
01:13:46.840over so let's let's let's postulate this so or let's hypothesize i think we people hate going
01:13:53.140back and looking at history but i think history is sometimes a very useful teacher here um you know
01:13:58.700the level of investment that we're seeing is probably most reasonably approximated to two
01:14:04.800different parts of the business life of the United States. The first was there was an incredible
01:14:11.380investment cycle that we Americans went through when we were building transportation infrastructure
01:14:18.160in the 1800s and the 1700s, everything from canals and then canals that transitioned to,
01:14:23.380you know, major railroads with the invention of steam engines and whatnot. And that was on the
01:14:28.720scale on an inflation adjusted basis of what we're talking about. Another example is the
01:14:34.780you know, major highway infrastructure system, also on the same order of magnitude of this.
01:14:40.080So to your point, one of the things that's so odd this time around is we've transitioned from
01:14:45.160public support and public investment, right? By the way, many of the canals that were built in
01:14:50.140the United States were underwritten by private investors. However, they had state backstops.
01:14:55.960Same thing for some railroads. But this time around, it's all privately financed.
01:15:00.720And so you're looking at a level of investment and you're wondering, well, how do we make this thing equitable and fair?
01:15:07.000Because the canals and the railroads were ultimately available to everyone.
01:15:11.800The highway system in the United States is available to everyone.
01:15:16.060This is why, again, I go back to if we're making this level of investment and I thank the private actors in America that are stepping up and our partners abroad who are stepping up.
01:15:27.460How do we make sure that it's available to everybody?
01:15:29.940Like this is the last thing we should gatekeep. Could you imagine if the highways could only be used by certain people at certain times that were judged by a private company? That is insane. And so we're making the investment. The jobs are being created. The profits are being spread out. All of that is good.
01:15:46.060And what is scary is that now we may marry that with gatekeeping. And that's to the benefit of the few that are making the system. And I can understand it logically in the sense that that's a capital incentive. Okay, reasonable. But we have to be smart enough to see through that, not fall for the doomerism, balance the perspective and say, you know what, it's great that you're doing it, you're going to build a great business, you're going to be rewarded, but we're going to keep this thing fundamentally open.
01:16:14.400And I think we have to do that. And we have to make sure we draw the line and see the forest from the trees. Do not fall for the doomer narrative. It is laced with their own personal incentives.
01:16:24.580i'm worried about the computers eliminating a bunch of jobs number one so our kids don't have
01:16:33.080meaningful places to go because i hear you saying that the companies are going to add jobs but like
01:16:36.280that's not what a lot of other people are saying and i i see i can see it i can see i was a lawyer
01:16:40.840for almost 10 years first second third year lawyers their work is getting eliminated i mean
01:16:47.500a computer can do that now ai can do that now but then how do you become a senior lawyer without
01:16:51.820having been a first second and a third year lawyer like you can't have but that's just one field like
01:16:56.040graphic design gone no no a lot of the pieces of the medical industry can we pick can we pick these
01:17:02.300these are not true can i debunk these let's let's give you i'll give you a couple examples yeah yeah
01:17:06.120okay so i'll give you three examples and i'll end with lawyers but let me start with animators
01:17:11.200there's an incredible story that jeffrey katzenberg tells jeffrey katzenberg is
01:17:15.020famous incredible entrepreneur executive investor ran dreamworks he was at disney he was the
01:17:21.680number two person at disney uh working for michael eisner who was the ceo at the time and he flew up
01:17:26.600to silicon valley from los angeles and he uh went to meet steve jobs this was after steve was you
01:17:33.980know sort of deposed from apple and started this company called next computer and he had bought a
01:17:39.880small company called pixar and steve was working to make a movie but didn't have enough capital
01:17:45.380so jeffrey says i'll finance you let's do it first he said i want to buy you and steve said no
01:17:52.220And so Jeffrey says, great, let me finance you
01:17:54.120and let's do a three or four picture deal.
01:17:56.920And Steve says, great, go back to LA, get the deal done.
01:18:44.880In fact, what it did was it opened the aperture for what was possible.
01:18:48.100Second example, we had all of this dumerism in the medical field around doctors and radiologists specifically. And it's this idea that using AI, you can get to absolute precision. Why do I need a doctor visually inspecting with their eyes, whether I have a tumor or not? Oh my God, give it to a computer. The computer will absolutely know with surety.
01:19:13.340Lo and behold, what turns out to be true?
01:19:15.960We implement these systems, and the computer needs the human judgment to sit on top of it.
01:19:24.880And now, what has happened in radiology?
01:19:28.400The number of jobs have far exceeded the number of jobs before AI.
01:19:35.580So AI, now in two markets, have grown the pie of jobs.
01:19:40.680I'll give you a third example now, which is we'll end with lawyers. Unless humans stop populating the earth and passing laws and politicians seeking power, unless that happens, the body of law is only growing. There's this positive entropy where it just keeps growing. I'm not saying it's right. In fact, I think it's wrong, but it just happens.
01:20:02.500even when you feed it into an AI, you need more human supervision and human judgment.
01:20:09.500So you're right. The tedium of the lawyer goes away. And there's a lot of tedium in a lot of
01:20:15.600jobs. But that's what AI does really well. It deals with the tedium. And now imagine if you're
01:20:20.380a second and third year associate, instead of having to like sit there and like grind out
01:20:24.660T's and C's deep into page 98 of a contract, that tedium is done for you. And instead your
01:20:30.440partner is saying, all right, Megan, frame up this deal. Tell me the broad strokes. That's how
01:20:34.060we shape this thing. And then you're like, well, look, these two laws conflict with each other.
01:20:38.380What's our interpretation? What's our human judgment? That's what's happening. And if you
01:20:42.480look inside of the best law firms, and I'm fortunate to get to work with many of them,
01:20:47.240the number of people that they're hiring is going up. And in fact, the amount that they're charging
01:20:52.040me is going up. And I'm just like, what choice do I have? And so in all of these examples,
01:20:59.160what i see on the ground all the places where people say the jobs are going away it's just not
01:21:04.520true i think that we have to also take a step back and say why do we think this is true and i think
01:21:13.360this speaks to a very different thing silicon valley for many years had these kind of like
01:21:20.880quirky nerds you know we kind of toiled in obscurity every now and then we would poke our
01:21:28.000had you would point at us and say look at this exotic animal at the zoo and then we would we
01:21:32.680would go back to you know you know my office in menlo park and palo alto and redwood city and
01:21:37.980mountain view you know these are these little quaint towns and we would just grind away in
01:21:42.140obscurity that's what it used to be i think in this last cycle we have done two things that have
01:21:48.760really hurt us one is we've become deeply unserious in how we manifest our character outside of
01:21:55.380Silicon Valley. We have built, by and large, except for a few people, a lot of unserious
01:22:01.700things. Some people specifically have done things that have completely collapsed trust
01:22:08.700and respect. We've lost our last generation of leaders who were incredible, like people like
01:22:14.520Steve Jobs. Everybody would have followed him everywhere. And the vacuum is being filled,
01:22:20.820but it's few and far between we have that next generation but a few of them jensen huang who
01:22:25.940runs nvidia unbelievable elon musk who obviously who runs spacex unbelievable but there's a vacuum
01:22:32.200you know mark benioff who runs salesforce unbelievable so we have a few but not nearly
01:22:37.640as many as we had before and the rest of them are a little bit kind of goofballs and you know0.97
01:22:42.200they're the decisions they make are just dumb and you know how they show behind the scenes kinds of0.98
01:22:46.960people. Yeah. And like the things that they've allowed to happen inside of their companies,1.00
01:22:51.180the stealing of the information, it's all bad. So I think a lot of why people also mistrust AI
01:22:58.180is they say, well, hold on. If the next generation of leaders of this technology
01:23:02.440look like this last generation, I don't like that. I don't want to see this next generation
01:23:08.040of those folks. I want to go back to the 2000 to 2010 era. I want Mark Benioff, Steve Jobs,
01:23:14.920Jensen Huang, Elon Musk. I want those people. Fundamentally earnest, good, honorable people,
01:23:21.720predictable, consistent. And that's what we need. We need a reset. And I think if we do that,
01:23:28.220you are much more likely to believe the positive sum view of AI. Instead, again-
01:23:32.840All right, wait, let me ask you one other question about it before we move on from this topic.
01:23:37.240What about what about the risk of like literally AI launching like the nuclear codes, launching missiles, doing something to actually attack?
01:23:48.780Great question. Great question. OK, let's let's break that one down.
01:23:53.860Everything runs on software. So the missile codes, when you say, you know, let's let's figure out like some doomsday scenario where somebody gets access to the code codes.
01:24:02.640there's not some keypad somewhere that you can get access to where you can just go and type in
01:24:08.320a bunch of codes that are guessed by Anthropic. There's a lot of software. Now, what's incredible
01:24:15.600today is OpenAI and Anthropic have created a level of proficiency where we are able to take
01:24:23.980those models, point it at all of that mission-critical code, and say, inspect it line by
01:24:30.620line, letter by letter, and tell us where all the holes are. And what would you expect that they are
01:24:36.080finding? That, again, there is an enormous amount of tedium that goes into writing code, okay? And
01:24:42.440as a result, humans have littered these code bases with thousands and thousands and thousands of
01:24:49.460preventable errors. And it exists in every single code base, in every single company, for every
01:24:53.860single use case you can imagine. All of that is slowly getting undone. So at some point in the
01:25:00.140near future, because we're pointing these technologies at the most critical infrastructure
01:25:05.320first, what we will know is that these things are incredibly hardened. Now, that's the point about
01:25:12.460protecting ourselves. That's defense. What about offense? I do think that there needs to be levels
01:25:19.580of KYC, which what is that? That means know your customer to use some of these most advanced
01:25:25.920technologies like the best example is and and this is a horrible example but it paints the case
01:25:30.560you know when timothy mcveigh did that act of domestic terrorism and blew up that um
01:25:36.960federal office building in oklahoma what did we find out from that we found out that
01:25:43.540uh we needed to have much stricter guardrails you can go and buy fertilizer but the minute
01:25:48.380that you're trying to buy two tons of fertilizer all these you know uh red lights go off and you
01:25:54.520have to submit your driver's license. And we write that information down. And we keep that
01:25:58.800in storage. That's the kind of KYC that's incredibly important. Why? Because it allows
01:26:05.960us to backtrack and say, you're allowed to have fertilizer. But beyond a certain point, that can
01:26:11.580go from being a tool to being a weapon. Similarly, with AI, it's not unreasonable to say that there
01:26:18.380is a class of model that you should be able to use at your home. Why? Because you want to help
01:26:23.640manage your health, you want to help your kids, you want an AI tutor, go at it. You don't need
01:26:28.500any identification. But there's going to be a certain class of model, to your point, Megan,
01:26:32.780that could create a biological weapon, that has enough intelligence to maybe manufacture a bomb.
01:26:39.580You should be forced to put your driver's license, your passport. We should know who you are.
01:26:45.720And that's a reasonable expectation to use that class of model. We do this in many other
01:26:50.880parts of our society today. And I think that's how we should deal with this, is just have a
01:26:57.520reasonable know-your-client KYC infrastructure. It's a different example. If you wanted to send
01:27:03.340me 50 million bucks, you could probably do it because you and I are known actors. You wanted
01:27:07.860to send it to a random account in Colombia, all kinds of alarm bells go off, and you're going to
01:27:13.900get a call from Treasury because these infrastructure says you have to identify.
01:27:18.840We need all this tracking information.
01:27:20.920Otherwise, you're not allowed to do those things.
01:27:22.460That happens in so many parts of our society today.
01:35:47.440Yeah. So I think that that probably made a certain class of Americans feel equally uncomfortable,0.80
01:35:53.700whether it's for religious or other reasons. So every president in recent memory has
01:36:00.720essentially tried to find a part of the American culture that they want to amplify.
01:36:05.540And it necessarily does upset other parts of the American culture. I think, though, that when you're somebody that's public, you have to have the wherewithal to see that and actually say, well, we did one thing one way and the president who's sitting now did one thing the other way.
01:36:22.420And actually in both of these things, there's a little bit more balance and we should all just move on. What I find problematic is I think that we look at these kind of like media folks, actors, and they're not what they used to be.
01:36:40.260And I think that we almost like ask them, like they have some sort of cultural anchoring in shaping how we should think about things.
01:36:48.580And they used to have that power making.
01:36:52.120I think more people care what Jake Paul thinks than what Larry David thinks.
01:36:55.820You can debate whether that's right or wrong, but that's just the nature of where we are.
01:37:00.080And so part of it as well is you have a person that's just a little bit out of the center stage now.
01:37:05.560And so, you know, they kind of step into this thing without thinking about it logically.
01:37:09.420The logical thought should be there are things that happened in Biden that a lot of people didn't like, and there are going to be things that that President Trump does that other people don't like.
01:37:19.080And in the end of it, as long as it's fair to some cohort of people that gets seen, that's what's reasonable.
01:37:24.800And when you're the president of the United States, you have that power.0.96
01:37:28.440Yeah, I think, Larry David, I don't I don't see a ton of Republicans like after we had trainees on the White House lawn showing their fake boobs saying.0.96
01:37:37.280Well, I mean, sorry, sorry. There's nothing Joe Biden could do to make me feel un-American. I feel disgusted with his choices.0.76
01:37:45.080No, you're right. I mean, let me be very specific. There is somebody in nipple tassels on the White House lawn. And you have to compare that and say, what's worse, UFC or somebody exposing their bare breasts in public? And I think for me personally, the latter is much more offensive. And so without having the wherewithal to actually remember these things and just, you know, just let the TDS guide your decision, I think is very simple and reductive and I think misses the mark.
01:38:12.000yeah i don't like ufc because i don't like violence so i don't like boxing i don't like
01:38:17.500any violent i can't i can't handle it it's not a class thing like it clearly is for no i like box
01:38:23.020i'm the same as you i like boxing um i get very nervous at ufc but when i see blood i get very
01:38:29.400squeamish even when i get my blood drawn i get squeamish so i'm like not built for ufc it's
01:38:35.720been amazing on the child your children's birth i can't even talk about i mean i can't i can't talk
01:38:42.180about just five times okay five times i just i couldn't i couldn't deal with it it's better you
01:38:49.720know like there's something to be said for the with the cigars in the waiting room role that
01:38:53.800men traditionally played for for some guys i get it uh let's end it on a happy note and that brings
01:38:58.920me to josh josh is from england and he has the following message to americas to americans in the
01:39:05.020wake of all the World Cup celebrations that have brought so many from the UK over here.
01:39:10.660America, you deserve and are owed an apology.
01:39:14.260And I'm going to say sorry on behalf of all the countries outside America and their media
01:39:19.220and the narrative they paint about America.
01:39:22.020Hundreds and thousands of fans for the World Cup are now seeing America through their own
01:39:27.000eyes, realizing the narrative they've been fed is false.
01:39:30.600And they're now realizing America is not the place that they thought it was.
01:39:34.820And I am sorry the media in these countries outside of America paints you the way they do.
01:39:41.360America is rich in culture, scenery, the people are amazing.
01:39:46.180And the media in the countries outside of America paint this weird narrative that it's a place that you shouldn't go.
01:39:52.200But now the tides are changing. There is a shift that is happening.
01:39:56.460I'm sorry you've been painted in this light for so long, and I'm so happy America is finally receiving the flowers that it deserves.
01:40:06.360You know what, Schmuth, hearing him and others like him, yes, it's reminding me, I think that the World Cup has done more to renew American patriotism than the 250th and the celebrations that have happened so far around.
01:40:19.680I think people are loving the reaction from all these, you know, foreigners, our friends from across the pond coming and watching them discover America for the first time.
01:40:30.780I don't know if you've seen it, but it's like you see like people from Korea or Japan who come to the U.S. for the first time, you know, very little English using a translation app.
01:40:40.380But, you know, sampling American food or I saw this one great clip of these Norwegian fans going to Bass Pro Shops for the first time and just totally being out of control.
01:40:50.740Germans tasting ranch sauce at like Hobie's.
01:41:06.740We have had people push a narrative that has mischaracterized America abroad, but we've also had, you know, a media inside the United States that has pushed an error that has tried to mischaracterize it from within.
01:41:19.220And whenever you can have a moment where people can let their guard down and see what it's truly like, what you realize is this is the most special and incredible place on earth.
01:41:31.000and it has a set of rules that were made by men 250 years ago that were divinely inspired and i
01:41:39.820think we should be so thankful for that and you know i owe everything to this country and i'm just
01:41:45.500so proud to be an american and so it makes me very happy to see that and uh you know uh i hope more
01:41:53.260people come away with that and i also hope that people in america start to think for themselves
01:41:58.220please think for yourself it's not nearly as bad as everybody says it is it's pretty freaking
01:42:03.720awesome yeah that's right it's it is pretty freaking awesome and i'm looking forward to
01:42:08.460celebrating it big we're going big even bigger than normal this year on july 4th further updates
01:42:13.300to follow chamath thank you congrats you are by the way you're absolutely steamrolling everybody
01:42:18.860so congrats on your success it is unbelievable i i see from neil mohan and youtube and all these
01:42:24.200other guys. You are destroying people. Your reach is crushing and you deserve every single bit of
01:42:32.980it. Really proud to call your friend. Thank you. Thank you. Likewise. Say hi to Sachs and don't
01:42:39.700forget my buddy Jason. My friend Jason. It's been too long. I miss him. We'll see you soon.
01:42:45.680Tomorrow we're going to be joined by the guys of Real Clear Politics. There's a lot to discuss
01:42:50.120with them. Can't wait to hear their reaction to some of that political news we went over and much,
01:42:54.740much more. Thanks to all of you for joining us today and every day. We do appreciate it.
01:42:59.560And you can give me your thoughts on today's show on AI. I'd love to hear from you. Megan
01:43:02.920at MeganKelley.com. See you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.