The Megyn Kelly Show - Tucker Carlson, Shawn Ryan, Bill Maher, Charlamagne, and More： Most Memorable Interviews From 2024

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:12.180 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and Happy New Year.

00:00:17.700 Welcome 2025. And before we officially say goodbye forever to 2024, we do want to look back at some of the memorable moments that we had on the show together with you guys this year.

00:00:29.120 With some familiar friends and those who made their first appearance on the program.

00:00:33.980 There was a feisty and fun and interesting interview with Bill Maher back in May.

00:00:40.440 Tucker Carlson's newsmaking interview during the Democratic National Convention.

00:00:44.880 On the eve of RFK Jr.'s endorsement of Donald Trump.

00:00:49.200 And also my first sit down ever with Riley Gaines.

00:00:53.040 I also want to bring you one of the interviews I thought about for weeks and months after it happened with Sean Ryan.

00:01:00.560 Oh, that was the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Love this guy. What a year he's had too.

00:01:04.860 We had Charlemagne Tha God on for a lengthy interview earlier in the year.

00:01:09.560 And then to close this out, Charlie Kirk.

00:01:12.240 He came on the Friday after the election finally able to exhale after all the work he and his team put in to help Trump reclaim the White House.

00:01:20.200 That was a great one. Enjoy. And we'll be back tomorrow with the conclusion to our True Crime Christmas series.

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00:02:29.960 You and I are very similar.

00:02:32.440 I feel like you're kind of a four and I'm a six on the ideological scale.

00:02:35.560 We have a lot of overlap, but you're definitely still going to vote Democrat and I'm definitely going to vote Republican.

00:02:41.400 But there's enough commonality to make us shake our heads yes when the other one speaks a lot.

00:02:45.640 So you're going to vote for Trump?

00:02:46.920 I am going to vote for Trump, yeah.

00:02:48.140 Yeah, I mean, I can't even understand that.

00:02:51.760 And I understand that Biden is deeply flawed, but he does believe in our way of life.

00:02:57.240 And, you know, I mean, I was the one who was saying from the very beginning when everyone was laughing at me that Donald Trump will never give up power.

00:03:04.280 And he didn't.

00:03:05.220 He still hasn't conceded the last election.

00:03:07.300 I don't know what could possibly be more fundamental to you or anyone than you have to concede elections.

00:03:14.120 And he hasn't conceded the last one.

00:03:16.100 He's plainly not going to concede this one.

00:03:18.420 He now has all of his sycophants around him parroting his party line, which is when they ask them, will you abide by the election results?

00:03:28.320 Yes, if it's a free and fair election, which is another way of saying if we win.

00:03:32.460 You really think this is a place this country should be?

00:03:35.780 I'm not going to defend the election denialism.

00:03:38.100 I'm not one of those people who believes that.

00:03:39.740 But what's more important?

00:03:40.540 What kind of country do we have?

00:03:41.840 How about my daughter not going into a locker room and seeing a man's penis?

00:03:45.200 That's important, too.

00:03:46.260 And I mean, I mean, how about young men on college campuses getting due process when they get accused falsely of rape?

00:03:51.140 Well, yeah, I think that's a false equivalency.

00:03:53.960 I think these things are what do you mean?

00:03:55.660 I think these things are important.

00:03:57.640 And but you can you can handle these things through the normal due process of our system.

00:04:04.040 But if we lose the system itself, come on, we didn't.

00:04:08.620 We didn't so far.

00:04:10.060 He tried it.

00:04:10.800 It failed.

00:04:11.920 Right.

00:04:12.400 And now he's had four years to put in place people who will make it work again.

00:04:16.500 I don't know if there'll be a John Raftenberger in Georgia, a noble Republican who stood up to him.

00:04:22.520 He thought last time that he could count on someone being just a Republican to do his bidding.

00:04:29.840 And what he found out was that there are a lot of decent people who are Republicans, which is something I'm trying to tell the Democrats all the time.

00:04:36.500 You can't hate you can hate Trump.

00:04:38.560 You can't hate everybody who likes him.

00:04:40.100 And you certainly can't hate half the country.

00:04:42.120 And Republicans is not a byword for bad people.

00:04:46.420 And a lot of them stood up.

00:04:48.200 I mean, even ones who I don't like very much.

00:04:52.580 Mitt Romney, McConnell, obviously Liz Cheney, Chris Christie.

00:04:58.980 There were Mike Pence.

00:05:00.980 These are what I call as good as it gets Republicans for the people who don't like Republicans.

00:05:07.160 They full throatedly said Trump lost that election.

00:05:11.420 No two ways about it.

00:05:13.280 McConnell said it wasn't even a particularly close election.

00:05:16.320 A lot of people said it.

00:05:17.020 A lot of people said it.

00:05:17.720 But look, I agree with you that the majority of the Republican Party doesn't believe that.

00:05:21.640 But I do think there's a difference between it was stolen, you know, the nonsense with Dominion voting machines and all that versus it wasn't fair.

00:05:31.980 And what wasn't fair?

00:05:33.980 The election started.

00:05:35.500 What wasn't fair?

00:05:36.240 Well, the election suppression of the Hunter Biden left.

00:05:38.760 It's just just for one.

00:05:40.000 Oh, for fuck's sake.

00:05:41.380 Really?

00:05:42.440 Oh, then then you're then we're not as alike as you think.

00:05:46.080 That's that's a stupid non story.

00:05:48.420 I mean, yes.

00:05:49.180 Who?

00:05:49.540 There are polls that show some 10 to 12 percent of the electorate says they would have changed their mind had they seen it, had they known about it.

00:05:55.880 It wasn't right.

00:05:56.520 It wasn't right to suppress it.

00:05:57.900 But nobody gives a fuck about but Hunter Biden's dick.

00:06:02.360 Nobody.

00:06:03.120 You're talking about yourself.

00:06:04.400 I'm telling you there.

00:06:05.340 There are data to show people did care.

00:06:07.760 They they say they would have changed their vote.

00:06:09.920 Nobody who was going to vote for Trump anyway or Biden anyway.

00:06:14.760 I mean, it wasn't about Hunter Biden's man parts.

00:06:17.460 It was about the scandal of his corruption and his dad's corruption.

00:06:22.420 Bill, I used to think that that Hunter Biden was a hot mess and Joe Biden was embarrassed by him but had to deal.

00:06:28.860 Now, I really think he was doing Joe Biden's bidding.

00:06:31.940 Joe Biden is the bad guy who sent his drug addled son out there to collect money.

00:06:37.020 That's what the laptop shows.

00:06:40.080 And that's more important than what I was bringing up about not abiding by election results, not not respecting what always made this country great.

00:06:49.000 The peaceful transference of power.

00:06:51.160 I don't disagree with you on that.

00:06:52.260 You're not going to get me to say it was a great thing.

00:06:54.120 But I don't have to get you to agree.

00:06:56.020 Disagree.

00:06:56.680 You're obviously someone who looks at an elephant in a mouse and cannot tell which one is bigger.

00:07:01.380 I disagree.

00:07:02.480 I know.

00:07:03.020 That's projection by you because I look at Joe Biden.

00:07:05.540 That's how I see you.

00:07:06.300 Well, let's talk about.

00:07:08.160 Why are you telling me this?

00:07:09.460 I mean, this is just typical right wing talking points.

00:07:14.140 The evil Hunter Biden and the evil Joe Biden.

00:07:17.860 And do I like them?

00:07:19.540 No, I don't particularly like that.

00:07:20.860 I think they're very flawed.

00:07:21.980 Listen, listen.

00:07:22.360 It's not nearly on the scale.

00:07:23.980 You're misstating my argument.

00:07:25.580 You're misstating my argument.

00:07:26.620 Hunter Biden just now on the laptop was brought up as evidence of how the election was not fair.

00:07:31.560 He's not a reason necessarily to not vote for Joe Biden.

00:07:35.120 The reason not to vote for Joe Biden is his policies.

00:07:38.160 You're not woke.

00:07:39.200 He's as woke, or at least his policies are, as they come.

00:07:42.280 The open border bill.

00:07:44.040 How could anybody vote for somebody who keeps this border open with the number of rapes and the number of murders and the numbers of crimes going on with these immigrants?

00:07:51.280 But again, these are the normal sorts of issues we've always had in this country that should be taken care of through the normal process we've had.

00:08:01.800 You're talking about the difference between this and something fundamental, which is our democracy.

00:08:10.120 The fact that you have to respect who wins an election or else you don't have the kind of country we've always had before.

00:08:17.880 I mean, I feel like we keep going around the rose bush about this, and we're not going to make any progress.

00:08:24.380 So let's stop talking about it.

00:08:26.460 But, you know, I just I mean, you keep saying sort of I'm nuts because I don't see the difference between the elephant and the mouse.

00:08:32.660 And I'm telling you, I identify them differently than you do.

00:08:35.460 Hillary Clinton, of course, is the original election denier.

00:08:38.180 I'm sure you voted for her in 16.

00:08:40.000 Well, she's not an election denier.

00:08:41.660 She absolutely was the OG election denier.

00:08:44.220 She first of all, she came out before the sun had risen to concede the election to Trump and then spent the next four years saying he was illegitimate.

00:08:55.160 He was an illegitimate president.

00:08:56.840 She.

00:08:57.400 OK, well, first of all, saying she didn't say he was an illegitimate.

00:09:00.800 She did.

00:09:01.300 You tell me exactly what she said.

00:09:02.780 She said those exact words repeatedly.

00:09:04.580 OK, I mean, she conceded the election, whether whether you're interpreting her disappointment at went at losing it as the same thing as Trump not conceding it.

00:09:18.420 I don't know that that's where you're getting it from.

00:09:20.600 But again, it's a tremendous false equivalency.

00:09:23.380 You could ask Hillary Clinton right now who won that election.

00:09:26.400 She will tell you Donald Trump won.

00:09:28.240 And now she knows she has to because of what Trump has done.

00:09:31.540 She came out that night.

00:09:33.180 She conceded the election.

00:09:34.700 In her dark purple suit and conceded the election.

00:09:36.660 Correct.

00:09:37.100 And then spent the next four years trying to convince us it was not legitimate.

00:09:41.280 Just saying, look, it's not the same as Trump.

00:09:42.960 What Trump did was far more severe.

00:09:45.240 I'm not going to deny that.

00:09:46.440 But don't try to tell me that Hillary Clinton wasn't an election denier and Jamie Raskin and a whole host of Democrats who are now in prominent positions on Capitol Hill.

00:09:54.760 It doesn't make it great what Trump did, but they don't have clean hands either.

00:09:59.400 But you bypassed the immigration question.

00:10:01.420 I mean, like that a lot of Republicans.

00:10:02.960 I'm not bypassing it.

00:10:03.220 I think it's a disaster.

00:10:04.340 I think I think.

00:10:04.940 So how would you put this guy back in there for four more years to leave the doors open?

00:10:08.420 And like it was so much better under Trump?

00:10:10.780 Yes, it was better under Trump.

00:10:12.340 Are you kidding me?

00:10:13.020 It was somewhat better.

00:10:14.360 Oh, Bill.

00:10:14.960 It was somewhat better.

00:10:16.160 Go look up the immigration rates.

00:10:17.720 Yeah, I know.

00:10:18.100 Illegal immigration rates.

00:10:19.040 I agree.

00:10:19.600 For 2020, for 19 to 20.

00:10:21.660 I'm not defending Biden on immigration.

00:10:23.340 I don't I don't understand why it's so difficult in this country to stop people coming through the border.

00:10:29.140 I don't.

00:10:29.700 And I watched that 60 Minutes piece.

00:10:32.280 They did on it a couple of months ago.

00:10:33.680 And they had films of people coming through this hole and the border patrol just watching them and basically waving.

00:10:42.220 I don't understand why.

00:10:44.080 I don't understand why this country can't accomplish something like that.

00:10:47.140 It doesn't seem like it's impossible.

00:10:49.040 But so many things in this.

00:10:50.660 Well, that's what's so aggravating.

00:10:51.780 We can accomplish it.

00:10:52.580 We can we can stop what's happening at the southern border.

00:10:55.100 We just won't under Joe Biden.

00:10:56.880 And he keeps pretending like he has no agency on it.

00:10:59.260 But he does have agency.

00:11:00.380 There are a lot of executive orders he could do just like Trump did.

00:11:03.160 He won't.

00:11:04.180 And you know why?

00:11:05.180 It's because of the people who use the word latinx who are trying to lecture him that it's not humane to enforce our borders.

00:11:11.920 Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:11:13.600 The left wing, because they're so afraid always of being called racist, they let that color every issue and very often wind up with terrible policies that wind up not helping people.

00:11:30.160 Don't you think that's what's happening to him on the trans issue, too, which is my big issue?

00:11:33.680 Yeah, I think I think I think I think what Joe Biden is, is a guy who does not want to fight with the left wing of his party.

00:11:39.420 He sees that as I don't think he understands a lot of what's going on in the left wing.

00:11:44.300 I mean, I don't doubt if he heard the word trans before he was president, but that's that's what he has chosen to do.

00:11:53.060 He does not want to fight with AOC.

00:11:54.760 He thinks that's where the energy in the party is and he's not completely wrong.

00:11:58.000 So he just kind of goes along with that kind of stuff.

00:12:01.920 Yeah, that's that's one thing that's not great about him.

00:12:04.540 But again, in this country, maybe gender is not binary, but politics is you only get two choices.

00:12:11.040 That's right.

00:12:11.480 You get Donald Trump, a criminal election denier who is going to transform this country into an authoritarian place like we've never seen before.

00:12:22.200 Or you get Joe Biden with all his flaws.

00:12:24.700 Also a criminal.

00:12:27.280 OK, what is his crime again?

00:12:29.380 Special Counsel Robert Hurst said he committed felonies, but he wouldn't indict him because he was a well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory.

00:12:35.880 He couldn't get a conviction in front of a jury.

00:12:39.020 And what was that crime?

00:12:40.220 That was the classified documents all over his basement, his garage, everywhere.

00:12:45.100 Well, OK, again, a false equivalency.

00:12:47.700 They both had classified documents.

00:12:49.280 Here's the difference.

00:12:50.800 Immediately, Biden, he shouldn't have had them.

00:12:53.460 Immediately, he said, oh, sorry, my bad and gave them back.

00:12:56.740 That's why he didn't get charged with obstruction.

00:12:58.880 But Trump has two classified documents pieces to his case.

00:13:02.320 One is you had them.

00:13:03.540 And the second is you obstructed justice when we demanded them back.

00:13:06.120 So, OK, against Biden, you don't get charged with obstruction.

00:13:09.360 But number one, where's the where's the classified documents charged against him?

00:13:12.140 He's also a felon.

00:13:15.680 You got your story.

00:13:17.120 You know, I look, if you see it that way, that's that's that's what I have to deal with.

00:13:22.560 I'm just saying you're asking me why I see it differently than you do.

00:13:25.900 The contest.

00:13:26.680 It's not convincing.

00:13:27.240 And I'm telling you.

00:13:28.100 It's not convincing.

00:13:28.940 It's fair.

00:13:29.560 Fair enough.

00:13:30.160 I mean, they both should not have had classified documents.

00:13:33.820 One by the toilet.

00:13:34.760 One by his Corvette.

00:13:36.640 OK.

00:13:37.140 One.

00:13:38.500 One.

00:13:39.500 Multiple.

00:13:40.380 Many.

00:13:40.760 No, I'm talking about one person.

00:13:42.180 OK.

00:13:42.420 One of them.

00:13:43.220 OK.

00:13:43.560 I'll copy.

00:13:44.020 Right.

00:13:44.300 One Trump.

00:13:45.100 One Biden.

00:13:46.100 They both did that.

00:13:47.540 The difference is Goofus and Gallant.

00:13:49.820 Goofus said anything I touch is mine forever.

00:13:53.240 Go fish.

00:13:54.500 And the other one said, oh, yeah, my bad.

00:13:58.000 And I'll immediately return them.

00:13:59.700 That's very funny.

00:14:00.400 You're taking me back to my childhood with that reference.

00:14:02.060 But that why can't the difference be one actually had the ability to declassify documents

00:14:07.500 and keep them because he'd been the president and one didn't because he should have been

00:14:11.480 looking at documents only in a skiff while a sitting U.S. senator.

00:14:15.920 And clearly he stole classified documents that he wasn't entitled to and never had the

00:14:20.720 ability to declassify them.

00:14:23.260 Yeah.

00:14:25.200 Maybe you know more about that than I do.

00:14:27.180 I don't remember that part of it.

00:14:28.340 And I always don't trust anything I hear until I vet it from the other side, because

00:14:33.900 everybody sort of has their one-sided view of it and narrative is more important than

00:14:37.860 truth.

00:14:38.520 I know this is the right wing narrative.

00:14:41.040 I'm not like that, Bill.

00:14:42.460 I care about facts.

00:14:43.840 I practiced a lot for 10 years.

00:14:45.140 I want to get the cases right.

00:14:49.380 The reports are that you and Don Jr.

00:14:53.280 and maybe one other have been working behind the scenes to convince RFK, Jay, that there's

00:14:58.660 no path forward for him in this particular race, which is whether you tried that or not,

00:15:02.680 that appears to be the case, and that he should drop out and endorse Donald Trump and potentially

00:15:07.820 get a role in his administration.

00:15:11.400 He has announced that he's going to be making an announcement on Friday.

00:15:14.700 And when asked about this, he just refused to confirm or deny for now, but did say, I'm

00:15:18.780 not going to say anything about Donald Trump when asked to condemn some of Trump's comments

00:15:23.820 on climate change.

00:15:25.480 So what would you like to say about these reports?

00:15:28.160 Well, I mean, I, I definitely didn't broker anything.

00:15:32.260 That's not my role in life.

00:15:33.740 I'm not good at that.

00:15:36.020 I would never, I just wouldn't do it, you know, go to Bobby and say, you know, you can

00:15:42.740 get this and go to Trump and say, you should do that.

00:15:45.220 I mean, you know, my only role just in general is knowing a lot of people, liking a lot of people.

00:15:52.840 Um, I always try to connect people just in general, you know, you should meet so-and-so,

00:15:58.180 you know, so that, but I am not a political actor, not good at it.

00:16:03.000 I don't really understand politics.

00:16:04.740 Most of my political predictions are wrong.

00:16:08.600 You know, I stay at 35,000 feet, which is the only place I'm comfortable or competent.

00:16:14.140 And the second, you know, I've been lured into saying, oh, this race and this state is going

00:16:20.040 and go that way, I get humiliated because I don't really understand it for you.

00:16:23.340 Same.

00:16:23.880 Um, so no, I didn't, I didn't broker anything.

00:16:27.120 I, I know them both well, and I really like Bobby Kennedy.

00:16:30.840 I always have, I don't agree with him on everything, obviously, but I like his spirit,

00:16:36.760 which is, um, inquisitive, pretty honest.

00:16:40.700 I would say actually for a politician, very honest, brave.

00:16:44.220 Um, I have a lot of the, I share a lot of the concerns he's articulated about health

00:16:50.180 and the environment.

00:16:51.120 I really care about the environment.

00:16:52.800 I think climate change is not human caused.

00:16:55.140 I disagree on that.

00:16:56.240 I think that's ridiculous.

00:16:56.960 Actually, um, climate is changing, but we're not doing it.

00:17:00.640 Uh, but I'm very concerned about the quality of the air and water and the soil.

00:17:05.900 Very concerned.

00:17:06.580 I think we all should be in the more, you know, the more you are concerned.

00:17:08.900 I'm really concerned by some of the drugs people put in their bodies as a 22 year long

00:17:14.760 sober person.

00:17:16.140 Um, I really love sobriety.

00:17:18.440 I, you know, went to an AA meeting recently with Bobby Kennedy had the best time ever.

00:17:22.220 So we have a lot, and I, and I'm a sportsman.

00:17:24.840 I love hunting and fishing.

00:17:26.300 And so does he.

00:17:26.960 So we have just a lot in common personally.

00:17:29.420 And, um, that's the basis of our friendship and of my affection, uh, for him on the political

00:17:34.880 question.

00:17:35.380 I've already said, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

00:17:37.500 And I really don't, but this is my one insight, which I do think is true is I have no idea

00:17:42.360 if he does endorse Trump and these are two big personalities.

00:17:45.520 So I'll kind of believe it when I see it, but if that happens tomorrow, um, I think it'll

00:17:50.920 help Trump probably.

00:17:52.560 I don't really know, but I know for a fact that Bobby running third party would hurt Trump

00:17:57.200 because there is a big overlap in their voters and it's not on all the issues.

00:18:01.360 They disagree on a bunch of issues, but anyone who thinks the current system is corrupt,

00:18:06.300 um, is going to, is not voting for Kamala Harris because she is of course the physical embodiment

00:18:12.420 of corruption.

00:18:13.320 And so you're voting for Bobby Kennedy or Donald Trump.

00:18:16.240 That's the bottom line.

00:18:17.340 And so I think if he stayed in the race, it would definitely hurt Trump.

00:18:20.800 That's my analysis for what it's worth.

00:18:22.740 There's a New York post report out today.

00:18:25.740 That isn't, well, no, two days ago it hit, uh, talking about where, how Bobby Kennedy is

00:18:32.080 affecting this race between Harris and Trump.

00:18:34.140 And it's very telling.

00:18:35.680 Um, they're looking at some, some recent polling and saying that take Arizona, Trump leads, uh,

00:18:42.720 Kamala Harris by one point in Arizona and Bobby Kennedy, they're taking 5%.

00:18:47.740 So, I mean, important enough that he could definitely sway that race in Michigan, um,

00:18:55.560 showing Trump, uh, it's basically tied 45 to 44 Kennedy drying 4% of the vote, Nevada,

00:19:04.340 another nail biter saying Trump leads Harris.

00:19:07.160 They are 43 to 42, 6% behind Bobby Kennedy, North Carolina, um, 47 to 44 in Trump's favor.

00:19:17.740 2% backing RFKJ.

00:19:20.780 So it is really interesting how tight it is.

00:19:24.960 Pennsylvania, Harris reads, leads Trump by two points and Wisconsin.

00:19:29.640 She leads him by four points.

00:19:31.420 Kennedy's at 4% and 3% respectively.

00:19:34.640 So this guy, he may not have the votes that he had maybe, you know, six months ago when

00:19:41.340 he was pulling more like 11%, but he truly could swing this election.

00:19:45.700 If the people getting ready to vote for him did what he asked them to do and voted for,

00:19:52.420 let's say in this case, Trump.

00:19:54.260 Yes, I think that's right.

00:19:55.720 And there's, there's a whole kind of demographic in this country, um, that's meaningful in numbers

00:20:01.440 and it's non-liberal nature, people kind of old fashioned hippie types.

00:20:06.080 They're not all into neoliberalism.

00:20:08.800 Um, actually, a lot of them still believe in civil liberties.

00:20:11.660 They appreciate nature.

00:20:13.180 They don't want to see it despoiled with chemicals.

00:20:15.480 They don't think Monsanto is like a great company necessarily.

00:20:19.180 Um, and they look at Kamala Harris and, and who's not even a real person.

00:20:24.220 I mean, it could be anybody, but they look at that machine financed by the banks and pharma.

00:20:29.880 And they think to themselves, you know, I don't have anything in common with these people.

00:20:33.840 And they maybe look at Trump and they're like, who's that guy?

00:20:36.300 He's weird.

00:20:36.840 I don't like him either.

00:20:38.340 But there are a lot of like right-wing hippies actually, particularly in rural areas.

00:20:42.840 They have guns.

00:20:43.620 They, they live in rural areas.

00:20:44.800 Of course they use guns.

00:20:45.760 And so I think those are all potential Trump voters.

00:20:50.240 There are some style problems that turn them off to Trump, but they're definitely not on

00:20:55.580 the side of like black rock at all.

00:20:58.200 And Bobby Kennedy, and I live near a lot of people like this.

00:21:02.140 I share a lot of their views.

00:21:03.440 So I, I'm very familiar with this demographic.

00:21:06.100 And I think that Bobby Kennedy is a, is a pretty good way in to voting for Trump for them.

00:21:12.840 He has credibility with them and for good reason.

00:21:16.640 I share your concerns about what's happening with the environment and the toxins and the

00:21:20.140 food supply and all that.

00:21:21.180 And I, it's funny, Tucker, you'll laugh because I, I, so I recently decided that I was going

00:21:28.120 to stop getting pedicure.

00:21:30.600 Like I get a pedicure, but I don't get toe polish.

00:21:32.980 I don't get toenail polish.

00:21:34.400 Yeah.

00:21:34.760 And I'm like that, you know, I don't want the top.

00:21:36.400 Would you look at me?

00:21:37.360 Would you look at the number of toxins I have on me right now in my hair?

00:21:41.600 I'm like, not to mention the Botox.

00:21:43.960 It's like, what a Charlotte and I am.

00:21:46.020 But you know, it's like around the edges, Tucker, we do what we can to try to minimize

00:21:49.920 the toxins coming in.

00:21:51.260 That's totally right.

00:21:52.340 That is where I draw the line.

00:21:55.300 No, I mean, if I'm being honest, I come from a family like that.

00:21:58.520 Like what's in your toothpaste?

00:22:00.340 What's in your deodorant?

00:22:01.280 I mean, I, you know, I'm 55.

00:22:03.180 I grew up in California in the seventies where people were really concerned about this stuff.

00:22:08.080 A lot of them were kind of dippy liberal people that we made fun of.

00:22:13.140 And, you know, I still make fun of them.

00:22:15.400 On the other hand, those concerns turned out to be absolutely real.

00:22:19.680 And if you look at the rates of chronic illness in this country, I mean, it's destroying the

00:22:25.380 country.

00:22:25.680 And I got a conversation last week with a woman called Casey Means, who's a physician.

00:22:31.300 I saw that.

00:22:31.660 She's Callie's sister, right?

00:22:33.800 Callie's sister.

00:22:34.520 Callie's a friend of mine and a wonderful guy, a wonderful guy.

00:22:37.860 But his sister is one of the most powerful people I've ever interviewed in my, you know,

00:22:41.480 in 33 years of interviewing people.

00:22:43.180 I've met very few people like Casey Means.

00:22:46.800 First of all, she has the credibility, the authority.

00:22:48.960 She's top of her class at Stanford Medical School.

00:22:50.840 She's a surgeon.

00:22:51.640 Okay, which is the highest level of medicine, obviously.

00:22:55.080 And she left it all because she thought the system was so corrupt.

00:22:58.240 But the compelling part of the interview for me was just the litany of health statistics

00:23:03.740 that she threw out there.

00:23:05.100 And the country's actually dying.

00:23:07.140 And I sense that.

00:23:08.520 I've read about it before, but I've never seen those stats collected in one place in

00:23:13.180 the way that she did.

00:23:14.620 And it's an emergency.

00:23:16.040 It's an emergency that I would say supersedes all other emergencies.

00:23:19.140 Sperm counts are down to zero in a lot of men.

00:23:22.240 Like, you can't continue the species.

00:23:24.140 So what is causing this is the obvious question.

00:23:26.440 Autism rates out of control to a much higher level than I ever realized.

00:23:31.460 And so for all the people who said, you know, how dare you speculate about what causes autism?

00:23:36.440 Okay, I don't know what causes autism.

00:23:38.560 I will freely concede that.

00:23:40.140 But something is causing autism, actually.

00:23:42.360 It's not just that the measurements have changed.

00:23:44.100 We're counting autism cases.

00:23:45.200 No, no.

00:23:45.900 The absolute number of autism cases is to an emergency level.

00:23:50.160 And that's true for a lot of chronic conditions.

00:23:54.260 And nobody cares.

00:23:56.360 And so I'm just saying, as a political matter, there are a lot of people who care.

00:23:59.760 And we put that interview up the other day.

00:24:01.900 It's kind of an obscure topic.

00:24:03.100 It has nothing to do with the election or the Ukraine war or inflation.

00:24:06.220 And the response that we got suggested to me that a lot of people sense this is going on and they want someone to talk about it.

00:24:14.100 And I hope if Bobby endorses Trump, and of course I hope he does, that he'll spend the next couple of months talking about this stuff in public because somebody needs to.

00:24:23.080 This is one of his favorites.

00:24:24.360 I mean, for sure.

00:24:24.900 This is he's come on the show many times and I've argued with him about why he doesn't pick up my favorite culture issues.

00:24:30.200 And he tells me what his favorite issues are.

00:24:32.360 And that's that's important, too.

00:24:34.040 You know what he's pushing?

00:24:35.720 He's right.

00:24:36.420 Nobody else is really talking about.

00:24:38.180 And so it would be fascinating to see him come into a Trump administration with his unique views and experience.

00:24:46.000 I mean, he made his bones as an environmental lawyer.

00:24:48.600 Yes.

00:24:49.040 And he's a true expert on that stuff.

00:24:51.580 And I think Trump would listen to him on the things that he really is an expert on.

00:24:55.380 And maybe we would have a different approach on some of this stuff.

00:24:57.520 So we'll know soon.

00:24:59.000 I think it would be a great move for him.

00:25:01.620 Well, we got 24 hours or so to figure it out.

00:25:04.420 OK, I got to talk to you.

00:25:06.040 So much has happened since you last came on.

00:25:09.220 J.D. Vance became Trump's running mate.

00:25:11.260 I also heard you had something to do with that.

00:25:13.800 That is brilliant.

00:25:15.160 And I totally support that move.

00:25:17.200 I know some Republicans are still they have their noses in a joint, but hopefully they're seeing what a great pick he was now when he's so deftly handling the media.

00:25:25.360 He's everywhere.

00:25:26.140 Last night he was in five different networks, you know.

00:25:28.820 And meanwhile, Tim Walsh will only go in front of the golden microphone with her, as you say, not even real people.

00:25:35.680 So what do you make, though, of the media pile on against J.D.?

00:25:41.300 Started with an interview he gave to you a couple of years ago or with a childless cat lady.

00:25:45.660 Right.

00:25:46.060 I comment. Nobody wanted to report the context, you know, a snarky remark.

00:25:50.000 But, you know, we went back and played the whole context of the original remarks that he'd made, what you guys were discussing.

00:25:57.200 Nobody does that, though.

00:25:58.280 So now they've demonized this guy as a woman hater, even though all his major role models and mentors and the people, the loving people in his life have been women.

00:26:06.520 And as you say, he hates IVF, even though he's on record as saying he's pro-IVF, he's against the ban.

00:26:13.340 Like all the stuff that they've been doing to him has been particularly nasty.

00:26:17.400 So what do you think of it?

00:26:19.760 Well, I mean, the childless cat lady thing I felt bad about, I'm pretty sure I haven't went looked at the tape again, but I'm pretty sure I egged him on to say something like that.

00:26:28.320 And I think it's a mean thing.

00:26:30.200 I think I'm responsible for that.

00:26:31.900 And I have a tendency to get way over my skis and get mean.

00:26:37.120 And I regret that.

00:26:38.160 You know, it's very ugly.

00:26:39.220 And I'm ashamed of the many, many times when I've said nasty things like that.

00:26:43.680 I feel sorry for childless people, whether they have cats or not.

00:26:46.720 And I mean it as someone who has four children who are the root of my happiness.

00:26:50.920 You know, I really feel compassion.

00:26:53.280 And the whole point, well, the intended point, I may have distorted it in, you know, getting cable newsy and being nasty to people.

00:27:00.920 But the whole point is we should be encouraging people to experience the things that make them the happiest.

00:27:07.080 And I think any parent will tell you, as hard as it is having kids, like that is one of the main sources of happiness for people from the beginning of time.

00:27:15.000 And if we're discouraging that or making it impossible for people to have kids, that's on us.

00:27:19.340 That's a major sin.

00:27:20.260 And we should try to make it better.

00:27:22.200 So I just want to say that, that I felt bad about that.

00:27:24.640 And many other nasty things I've said over the years where I diminish people or make fun of their appearance.

00:27:29.080 That's totally wrong.

00:27:30.460 So I'm sorry.

00:27:31.380 But I would say of J.D. Vance, it was hilarious because he's so weird.

00:27:35.920 He hates women.

00:27:36.420 But he's like one of the only politicians I know, and I know a lot of politicians, who has a happy normal marriage.

00:27:42.520 He actually cares what his wife thinks.

00:27:43.920 She's his partner, like actual partner.

00:27:45.460 She's very smart and a really nice person, a cool person.

00:27:48.780 And he isn't like a normal happy marriage.

00:27:50.660 If you brought, and I've actually been around it in private, if you brought a camera into J.D. Vance's household, you would see like a husband who loves his wife, a father who loves his children.

00:28:01.320 Like you really would.

00:28:02.380 Like you can't say that for almost any other politician on either side.

00:28:06.560 And I don't want to be mean.

00:28:08.520 I've already said I don't want to be mean.

00:28:09.720 But like that, that Walls guy is a creep.

00:28:12.420 I'm just telling you that as someone who went to boarding school in the 80s.

00:28:15.000 Like I know exactly who that guy is.

00:28:16.940 And I'm sorry.

00:28:17.940 It's just, you know, I hope I'm wrong.

00:28:20.020 I don't think I am.

00:28:21.320 And honestly, Tucker, why is he so obsessed with transing children?

00:28:25.480 Making it possible for them to separate from their parents and have their body parts chopped off.

00:28:30.640 Hello?

00:28:31.520 Yeah.

00:28:32.000 Well, I lived in a boys dorm in a New England boarding school in the 1980s with a lot of guys like Tim Walls, okay?

00:28:38.660 So I saw that guy and I'm like, oh, wow.

00:28:41.240 I know exactly you're a creeper, as we used to call him, for sure.

00:28:45.560 And, you know, I guess I probably shouldn't.

00:28:48.220 I definitely shouldn't suggest what I'm suggesting without evidence.

00:28:52.240 I don't have evidence beyond what I've seen.

00:28:53.640 So I just want to say that I'm probably, again, over my speech.

00:28:55.860 Are you mean like a pervert?

00:28:57.100 I got it when you say creep.

00:28:57.960 I just, there's something wrong with that guy.

00:28:59.480 He's a weirdo.

00:29:00.240 He's a weirdo.

00:29:01.080 And you can tell watching him.

00:29:03.040 And I'm sorry.

00:29:04.060 I just lived long enough that I know that your gut level perceptions are rooted in truth.

00:29:09.100 They're not always precisely true.

00:29:10.780 I've gotten many things wrong.

00:29:12.060 Like the details are unknown to me.

00:29:13.560 But I look at that guy and I'm like, you're a weirdo.

00:29:16.060 And everyone's like, no, he's so normal.

00:29:17.820 No, not normal.

00:29:19.140 Sorry.

00:29:20.060 And so-

00:29:20.620 Well, there's another thing.

00:29:21.900 There's another thing about Tim Walls that hasn't gotten as much airtime.

00:29:24.840 And it's true.

00:29:25.640 He actually did remove, they were coming up with the Minnesota human rights law and revising

00:29:31.600 it, renewing it.

00:29:32.880 You know, this class is protected.

00:29:34.620 You can't discriminate against these people.

00:29:36.280 And you can't discriminate against gays and lesbians.

00:29:38.440 And the law had said, to be clear, pedophiles get no protection under this law.

00:29:45.200 Pedophiles do not fall under the definition of a protected class.

00:29:48.780 And they removed that language.

00:29:51.480 They removed that language under Tim Walls.

00:29:54.560 That the pedophiles.

00:29:55.600 So it made it more ambiguous.

00:29:57.440 Now, some of the LGBTQ community said, well, we removed that because we don't want to be

00:30:00.940 associated with it.

00:30:01.580 We don't need to say that right after you're talking about gay people.

00:30:04.180 We shouldn't even be in the same breath as pedophiles, but it did make it more ambiguous.

00:30:08.820 And some objected saying, why would we take this out and make it less clear that we're

00:30:12.760 not trying to protect pedophiles?

00:30:14.060 In any event, it remained out.

00:30:15.400 And Tim Walls signed that bill.

00:30:16.720 I'm not saying he's a pedophile.

00:30:18.120 I'm just saying you don't hear about this stuff from the mainstream media because they're

00:30:20.800 so determined to tell us he's our dad.

00:30:23.320 And by the way, what is he doing in a high school setting with children talking to them about

00:30:28.720 their sex lives?

00:30:29.360 Tell us about mental toughness and how your dad made sure you had it.

00:30:37.680 Well, I am so fortunate to have, I didn't realize this at the time, but of course, as

00:30:41.740 you get older, I realize now how fortunate I am to have two amazing parents who love each

00:30:48.200 other very much, who taught me how to be an independent thinker, how to call out an injustice

00:30:54.680 when you see it.

00:30:55.820 Um, so I could not be more grateful for my parents who were both high level athletes.

00:31:00.760 Uh, my mom, she was a division one softball player.

00:31:03.040 My dad, uh, he's an sec hall of famer, football player, uh, went on to play for the Eagles.

00:31:09.320 Um, it's been a good bit in the NFL.

00:31:11.580 And so, um, them having that background inclined, uh, was a big part in me playing sports, I guess

00:31:19.660 I'll say, but when I was young, probably eight years old, um, my dad, he did some different

00:31:26.580 business endeavors.

00:31:27.420 And so I went with him on a business trip to Memphis, Tennessee, and I will never forget

00:31:33.380 we're at this hotel.

00:31:34.880 I normally, of course, you know, never really traveled with just my dad.

00:31:38.260 It was always all of us as a family, but it was a fun little bonding trip.

00:31:41.480 So we're at this hotel and he says, Riley, come, come down to the lobby with me.

00:31:45.460 And I'm like, okay, you know, what are we doing?

00:31:48.000 He takes me to the, the pool at this hotel.

00:31:51.180 It's outside.

00:31:52.020 It's in the middle of December.

00:31:53.360 And he's like, jump in.

00:31:54.760 I'm like, dad, I'm not jumping in that pool.

00:31:57.440 It's freezing.

00:31:58.000 He pulled back the tarp.

00:31:58.880 He said, no, you're going to jump in.

00:31:59.860 This is your first lesson of mental toughness.

00:32:02.480 Uh, you're going to jump in and you're not going to say you're cold.

00:32:05.800 You're not going to, to shiver.

00:32:07.520 And I'll tell you when you can get out.

00:32:09.360 I'm like, dad, this is child abuse.

00:32:11.000 You can't make me do that.

00:32:11.920 I'm calling mom.

00:32:13.320 Um, but I listened to him.

00:32:15.220 I jumped in, uh, confused.

00:32:17.360 You know, what is this for?

00:32:19.200 Finally, after five minutes or so of treading in the water, he said, okay, you can come out.

00:32:23.020 And then we go back to the room.

00:32:24.580 I'm still shivering.

00:32:25.380 I'm like, dad, what was that about?

00:32:27.620 He said that, like I said, you need to learn mental toughness because physical toughness.

00:32:32.220 Yeah, it's important, but mental toughness will take you further.

00:32:35.220 Um, there's no such thing as cold, Riley.

00:32:38.840 He said, there's such thing as an absence of heat, but there's no such thing as cold.

00:32:42.840 It's a mental state.

00:32:43.760 You think you're cold.

00:32:44.700 He said, you're not really.

00:32:45.800 And I will never forget that.

00:32:47.340 It has stuck with me since.

00:32:48.860 And every time when I was swimming or practicing and I began to, you know, your legs burn, you

00:32:53.840 feel your body filling with lactic acid.

00:32:56.280 You're tired.

00:32:56.880 You're in pain.

00:32:57.360 I thought to myself, pain isn't real, just a feeling that I'm having.

00:33:00.700 It's fleeting.

00:33:01.240 It's in the moment, but not real.

00:33:04.700 So this is the difference between you and virtually everybody.

00:33:06.840 I mean, I remember talking to some Navy SEALs about this and that's how they get through

00:33:10.400 training.

00:33:10.720 Like I, I don't feel the pain.

00:33:12.040 I don't feel the lactic acid.

00:33:13.520 I tried that at my very next workout and it was not true.

00:33:17.380 It's not true.

00:33:18.800 We mere mortals do feel pain.

00:33:20.820 But it's those lessons that I learned when I was young, my dad was right because they

00:33:27.180 have transcended beyond athletics.

00:33:30.460 I'm able to do what I do now with a smile on my face, with an incredibly light heart,

00:33:36.780 not worrying, not caring, not feeling anxious or stressed about what we're up against because

00:33:44.500 I know what I'm standing for is the right thing.

00:33:47.400 This brings me to something I've always wanted to ask you.

00:33:49.460 So my audience knows I used to be on the wrong side of this whole issue, you know, and I

00:33:55.240 played clips of myself at NBC feeding into all of this.

00:33:59.380 You know, I, I was still in the mindset of be compassionate.

00:34:03.300 It's a very small group.

00:34:04.480 They're very badly bullied and using the pronouns, even when I launched the show, um, not so much

00:34:10.020 on the other stuff, but on the pronouns I was still using, uh, when I launched the show.

00:34:13.220 And then I started, you know, I remember when you, I like, it was a defining moment for

00:34:19.200 me to watch you kind of go off on, it was, it was very powerful.

00:34:24.240 It was very fiery, but I needed to see that.

00:34:26.480 So I don't know if, if you know, just how many people you've inspired and influenced since

00:34:32.640 taking that stand.

00:34:34.160 That was a big decision for me to turn on the pronouns.

00:34:37.300 Naturally.

00:34:37.620 And, you know, like you, there've been so many women who've inspired me.

00:34:40.720 You're one of them, but Kelly J Keene, Helen Joyce, Abigail Schreier's book.

00:34:45.580 There's just been, you know, all these other great women who were to this party nice and

00:34:49.840 early and have been waving the flag saying, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:34:53.540 Um, JK Rowling, how, how brave she's been all of it.

00:34:56.840 But I always wanted to ask you about when you were swimming and Leah Thomas, you found out

00:35:04.320 you're going to have to swim against him.

00:35:06.260 So what, how did your mind work at the time to say, I'm going to do it?

00:35:12.420 So we found out in about November of 2021, actually, let me take you a little further

00:35:18.120 back.

00:35:18.380 So I finished my junior year, um, at university of Kentucky, ultimately placing seventh in

00:35:23.980 the country, which it wasn't the best time, but I was proud of this.

00:35:28.000 You're top eight.

00:35:28.580 You're an all American.

00:35:29.320 It's a pretty high honor, but I knew I was capable of more.

00:35:32.700 So it was kind of right then and there that I placed seventh, my junior year that I set

00:35:36.600 a goal for my senior year to win a national title.

00:35:38.840 And so I'm right on pace to achieve this goal about midway through my senior season.

00:35:43.940 I was ranked third in the nation in the 200 freestyle trailing the girl in second, a girl

00:35:48.280 I knew very well, uh, by a few one hundredths of a second, but the summer who was leading

00:35:54.780 the nation by body links, might add was a summer that none of us had ever heard of before.

00:36:00.460 Not me, not my teammates, not my competitors, not my family, not my coaches, none of us.

00:36:05.200 It was the first time we became aware of a summer named Leah Thomas.

00:36:09.120 Lots of red flags at the time.

00:36:10.820 Keep in mind, we hadn't seen a photo of this person or else things probably would have been

00:36:14.240 a little more clear.

00:36:15.740 Um, but we really continued to stay in the dark until an article came out disclosing that

00:36:22.520 Leah Thomas is actually Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at UPenn before

00:36:27.280 deciding to switch to the women's team.

00:36:29.060 Whereas you said ranked, I mean, was mediocre at best, but he was a less than average male

00:36:35.260 swimmer still competing at the division one level.

00:36:37.560 So obviously he was a good swimmer.

00:36:39.720 Yeah.

00:36:39.880 But just not compared to the other men, but not when it came to national rankings or achievements.

00:36:45.300 Um, when I found out about this, naturally we were shocked.

00:36:50.480 Um, but really when I think about how I felt, it was like this, this overwhelming sense of

00:36:56.780 relief, like, Oh, that makes sense.

00:37:00.480 Duh.

00:37:00.720 It's a man.

00:37:01.340 That's why he's beating everyone in the country by so much in multiple events.

00:37:05.140 Duh.

00:37:06.080 And I didn't think much about it because I thought surely, I mean, it didn't even cross

00:37:10.140 my mind that the NCAA wouldn't see a problem with this.

00:37:12.620 They won't let him compete with us at NCAAs that the pinnacle of our sport, they'll put a

00:37:18.020 policy in place.

00:37:18.800 I'm sure they already have one in place.

00:37:20.440 This isn't really an issue.

00:37:21.640 He's a man.

00:37:22.820 Uh, so I was, I was very relieved, um, until I found out that the NCAA did not see it that

00:37:28.900 way.

00:37:29.160 They didn't see it the same way that me, again, my teammates, my coaches, uh, anyone

00:37:33.420 with any amount of brain activity saw this issue.

00:37:35.940 They saw no problem with it, but even still those three weeks, I mentioned how we found

00:37:41.460 out about three weeks before that meet in March of 2022, even after finding out leading

00:37:47.140 up to that meet, I am almost ashamed to admit it, but I still felt this like sheer sense

00:37:55.100 of curiosity, almost intriguement.

00:37:57.400 You know, what is this going to look like?

00:37:59.540 Is he as tall as Instagram pictures make him look, uh, is he going to sandbag it?

00:38:04.020 Will he be in our locker room?

00:38:05.040 I mean, there were so many questions that we didn't have answers to that there was a

00:38:09.440 sense of intrigue, but I'm ashamed for feeling intrigued.

00:38:12.780 I really am because upon getting to that meet, um, seeing the tears that I saw from the girls

00:38:20.000 who placed ninth and 17th and missed out on being named an all American by one place, seeing

00:38:24.780 the tears from the moms in the stands watching as their daughters are being obliterated in

00:38:29.840 the sport that they once loved, feeling the extreme discomfort in the locker room, hearing

00:38:33.960 the whispers, because that's what they were.

00:38:36.440 They were whispers of, of anger and frustration from these girls who just like myself had worked

00:38:42.860 our entire lives to get to this meet.

00:38:45.780 Uh, I remember specifically actually when my feelings really shifted because, um, this was

00:38:51.240 like a week long meet and you swim prelims in the morning.

00:38:54.040 You have to qualify top 16.

00:38:55.360 You come back that evening, you swim finals, and that's where you'll achieve your overall national

00:38:59.200 ranking.

00:39:00.000 And so that first day of competition, I'm watching prelims of the 500, um, which is the

00:39:06.640 event that Thomas would that evening go on to win a national title in, and I'm watching

00:39:10.360 prelims.

00:39:11.020 There's about eight heats or so.

00:39:12.980 Um, my team was sat next to Virginia tech, one of the swimmers from Virginia tech.

00:39:18.140 She swam in one of the earlier heats.

00:39:20.160 She had just finished.

00:39:21.280 She came back to the pool deck, stood by me.

00:39:24.100 I knew her.

00:39:24.900 I didn't know her that well.

00:39:26.680 I really only knew her name and what event she swam.

00:39:29.200 Uh, we're watching the final heat swim.

00:39:32.700 This is the event where she knew she was right on the cusp of making top 16.

00:39:37.600 The final heat concludes Thomas is swimming.

00:39:40.360 Thomas dominates.

00:39:41.260 She looks up at the scoreboard and she realized she placed 17th.

00:39:44.100 And I will never forget because she looked at me again, not even really knowing her.

00:39:49.060 And she grabbed me, my hand with tears running down her face.

00:39:52.960 And she said, Riley, I just got beat by someone who didn't even have to try.

00:39:56.160 I mean, I have chills telling it again.

00:39:57.720 I have to, I have chills listening.

00:39:59.120 And that's when those feelings shifted to utter heartbreak.

00:40:02.320 And I realized the severity of what we were dealing with.

00:40:05.440 This wasn't just a circus or a funny ha ha, like SNL skit moment anymore.

00:40:09.220 This was real life.

00:40:10.200 And that's when, that's when I decided what cowards we have leading us, our coaches, even

00:40:17.460 coaches who I love and respect and who knew this was objectively wrong.

00:40:22.340 And then it was very hard for you to say anything about it as the competitors that they knew

00:40:26.680 what would happen to you.

00:40:27.480 Of course.

00:40:28.300 Yeah.

00:40:28.700 But they were more worried about their own heights.

00:40:30.240 Of course.

00:40:31.060 And again, I understand because the risk and the threats, they're real.

00:40:33.940 I'm not sitting here saying that it's easy.

00:40:35.740 Well, actually I am.

00:40:36.800 It is easy to say that there are two sexes.

00:40:39.620 That's not hard to say.

00:40:41.140 But very few have said it, right?

00:40:42.260 Paula Scanlon spoke out.

00:40:44.240 You Penn swimmer, you spoke out.

00:40:46.480 But almost no one, no one else that I know of.

00:40:49.680 No, there's been very, very few.

00:40:51.660 People think it's either, either, of course, they're terrified.

00:40:55.120 They're scared.

00:40:55.660 They believe it when, when their universities or administrators tell them they won't get

00:40:59.040 a job or they'll not, they won't get into grad school or they'll lose their friends.

00:41:02.680 Or people genuinely think it's not their problem.

00:41:05.240 They think, oh, well, I'm done competing.

00:41:06.680 It happened to me, but I'm moving on.

00:41:09.360 It's, it's onto the next thing.

00:41:10.500 It won't happen again.

00:41:12.320 Really?

00:41:12.720 It basically felt like I was surrendering to evil and, uh, and I was trying to convince

00:41:25.180 myself to be fine with it.

00:41:26.780 Um, so we're staying in this nice resort in Sedona, uh, they got a, uh, guarded gate and

00:41:35.240 I pay attention to that kind of stuff because of my background.

00:41:37.400 And, uh, a lot of the guys knew me that worked in there for the, from, from my podcast and,

00:41:43.740 and wanted to talk.

00:41:44.780 Well, this, we were there for a week.

00:41:46.400 The last day I walked through and it's this old, uh, old man in there.

00:41:52.440 Um, and he's wanting to talk to me and me and my wife had gone up to a hike.

00:41:56.240 Cause I was like, I just, I gotta get the hell out of here.

00:41:58.280 Maybe a hike will make me feel better.

00:41:59.720 Walk back down.

00:42:01.400 And, and this guy starts trying to talk to me.

00:42:04.780 It's dark at this point.

00:42:05.760 I had already kind of surrendered.

00:42:07.060 Like I've done, I didn't feel good, but I'd kind of made my decision.

00:42:10.840 Like I'm not doing this anymore.

00:42:12.980 And, um, I'm kind of looking at him over the shoulder, like, I'm, I'm, I'm not in the

00:42:18.660 mood to like strike up a conversation.

00:42:20.800 And, but my wife starts talking to him and I'm like, shit, I just want to go to my room.

00:42:28.600 So I turn around and this guy, this guy read my mind from front to back.

00:42:38.040 And I mean, like, I've never had that happen.

00:42:42.380 It wasn't, it, it, I mean, it was descriptive.

00:42:45.960 It was, it scared the shit out of me because I was like, how are you?

00:42:50.020 How, how are you in my head?

00:42:53.040 And, uh, he started rattling off all these thoughts that I was having on that entire

00:42:57.400 hike.

00:42:57.740 And he's like, this stuff that's going on in China, that's not your fight anymore.

00:43:02.260 And this stuff that's going on with the kids, that's not your fight either.

00:43:07.120 And this stuff that's going on with the trans community, that's not your fight.

00:43:10.920 And, and I, my, I had shut down.

00:43:14.100 I was like, well, how was this guy in my head right now?

00:43:18.000 So freaked me out.

00:43:20.320 We're walking back to, to our bungalow.

00:43:23.100 We were in a place where it was like, kind of like a duplex and, um, we're on one side,

00:43:28.160 somebody else on another side.

00:43:29.400 We got there, we got, when we got to Sedona, uh, my best friend that I was referring to

00:43:36.220 earlier, his name's Gabe.

00:43:37.480 He, he died of a, of a heroin overdose, uh, later on.

00:43:42.380 But, uh, Gabe was a seal.

00:43:45.140 Gabe was a pro hockey player.

00:43:47.200 Gabe was a fighter.

00:43:48.640 Uh, we was into MMA.

00:43:50.060 Gabe was at the agency with me.

00:43:51.760 And no matter where Gabe was, Gabe was always, always known as a protector, like no matter

00:43:58.420 what unit he was in, no matter what, who he was with could be the, the, the, the manliest

00:44:05.220 of all men.

00:44:06.060 Like everybody knows Gabe has got you.

00:44:10.200 And, and he was my best friend.

00:44:13.440 Well, we get there and we see this guy and he looks identical.

00:44:16.400 He could be Gabe's identical twin.

00:44:18.220 I mean, you could see differences, but same brow line, same jaw line, same build, same

00:44:23.500 walk, same three day shadow, same everything, uh, muscular.

00:44:29.280 And me and my wife are both like, man, that looks exactly like Gabe.

00:44:33.440 And everywhere we would go, this guy was at, if we were at the pool, this guy was at the

00:44:38.700 pool.

00:44:38.960 If we were going on a hike, this guy was coming back from a hike.

00:44:41.520 If we were out in town, getting dinner, he was out in town, getting dinner.

00:44:44.740 And, and we, we had always thought it was weird because I'd, I'd kind of had a breakdown

00:44:50.860 on the plane, uh, to Sedona.

00:44:54.660 And so I was in a vulnerable spot.

00:44:57.120 My wife knew it.

00:44:57.940 I was in a vulnerable spot.

00:44:59.260 I knew it.

00:45:00.220 Uh, I was with my buddy Dave and he knew it.

00:45:03.980 And it was just odd that Gabe, who's always known as a protector is like every, this guy

00:45:09.200 that looks identical to him is, is everywhere.

00:45:11.260 Well, it turns out right from that gate, we walked to our bungalow and it turns out this

00:45:19.480 guy and his family is staying right across the, the thing from us.

00:45:24.520 And we hadn't seen him all week.

00:45:26.160 And I'm like, that was weird.

00:45:27.680 And on the way back, I'm telling Katie, I'm like, holy shit.

00:45:30.400 Like, I think, I think that was God that was reading my mind.

00:45:34.220 And she's like, yeah, Sean, that was God.

00:45:37.720 And I'm like, I can't believe this.

00:45:40.380 Like, how is this happening?

00:45:42.140 And, and she's like, Sean, God's always been around you.

00:45:45.540 You just don't make time for him.

00:45:48.240 And, uh, I knew that to be true.

00:45:50.960 So we get to the bungalow, Gabe staying across the way or the, the lookalike, whatever, uh,

00:45:57.140 you want to call it.

00:45:58.040 He's, we find out he's staying right across.

00:46:00.160 This is all within like 10, 15 minutes.

00:46:02.080 Then we go in and I, I am, I'm crying and I'm like, I can't believe this is happening.

00:46:07.660 And right before, also right before we went to Zona, uh, a good friend of mine, uh, his

00:46:13.980 name was Dan Cirillo died.

00:46:16.400 Uh, he was kind of the only, he was a seal, uh, and a businessman and he lived in Franklin.

00:46:22.900 And I don't have a lot of people that I can relate to, uh, where I live now in Franklin.

00:46:31.260 And Dan is one of those guys that, that he's very successful.

00:46:36.800 He owned a couple of hospitals.

00:46:38.360 He owned a, a, a big security business.

00:46:41.800 And he's like one of the few people that I can sit down with and talk business and talk

00:46:45.980 friends.

00:46:46.340 And he doesn't need anything from me and I don't need anything from him.

00:46:49.180 And those, you know, those relationships get hard to come by.

00:46:52.940 And, uh, so we hit it off really fast.

00:46:56.020 And then he died on a hunting trip with his son, had a heart attack.

00:46:59.300 Oh God.

00:47:00.080 And, um, and, uh, but Hey, I mean that if there's a way to go, good on him.

00:47:06.860 But, uh, anyways, his daughter who I had never met, I'm having this breakdown in the, in the

00:47:13.700 hotel and, uh, his daughter, I heard my phone go, go off while I was talking to Katie.

00:47:22.000 And as soon as we kind of finished what we were talking about, about what was going on,

00:47:26.460 I checked my phone and it's from his daughter and, and, uh, it's this text.

00:47:36.040 I'd never even met her before.

00:47:38.440 And, uh, she says, she must've got my number from her dad's phone.

00:47:44.100 And, and, uh, she said, Hey Sean, um, this is Taylor, Dan's daughter.

00:47:50.720 And I just walked into my dad's gun room for the first time since he had passed away.

00:47:55.600 And he grabbed me by the arm and told me that I needed to contact you because you knew a side

00:48:04.360 of him that nobody else knew.

00:48:06.800 And that he wanted me to tell you that he loves you just the way that you are and that

00:48:13.720 you're doing exactly what you should be doing.

00:48:16.120 And then, uh, I'm trying not to lose it right now, but, um, but, uh, so that was like the

00:48:24.560 third thing all within, like I said, 10, 15 minutes.

00:48:28.680 And I was like, Holy shit.

00:48:30.700 Like there's no denying this one.

00:48:34.440 Exactly.

00:48:35.640 And, uh, no brick wall.

00:48:37.500 Yeah.

00:48:38.440 And so, you know, I grew up Catholic and never really took church seriously.

00:48:44.300 Uh, I never did.

00:48:47.960 And then when I left home, I never really went back and, and it kind of lost faith.

00:48:52.040 And, uh, I'm not saying I wasn't a believer.

00:48:54.060 I just didn't really care.

00:48:55.780 And I didn't think about it.

00:48:56.940 And, uh, I had definitely no time for, for God.

00:49:01.680 And so I took that as a, I mean, that was like a slap in the face.

00:49:06.460 And I, I decided I needed to get serious about faith and at least look into it.

00:49:10.680 And, and so I started looking into it and, and it's, and it's been great.

00:49:14.920 And, and, you know, to be honest, it's the only thing I can find that makes any damn

00:49:18.760 sense anymore.

00:49:19.480 And it's all, it's all in that book.

00:49:22.200 Everything we're seeing happening right now is in that book.

00:49:24.620 Is that how you started just reading the Bible?

00:49:26.480 I did.

00:49:27.080 I did.

00:49:27.680 I started trying to read it from front to back and, and, uh, I wasn't really getting

00:49:32.700 anywhere.

00:49:33.100 And then some shocking stuff in that old Testament, if you go that way.

00:49:37.180 Yeah.

00:49:37.700 And, um, but then turns out, uh, as it turns out, my entire team, I'm really close with

00:49:44.380 my team, uh, my podcast team, the guys that, that work for me and, and make it what, what

00:49:51.060 it is.

00:49:51.480 And, uh, turns out one guy's was raised Southern Baptist, super well-versed in the Bible.

00:49:57.620 My editor, Darren, uh, grew up a Jehovah's witness and, uh, escaped, escaped it.

00:50:04.760 But, but knows, I mean, knows that book from front to back.

00:50:09.320 Um, um, my it guy, Adam, uh, devout Catholic knows it all.

00:50:16.640 So everything, Elijah, my production manager, he's the Southern Baptist guy, and they kind

00:50:23.180 of started pouring into me and, and a lot of my buddies that were in the seal teams,

00:50:29.320 uh, Eddie Penny really kind of paved the way for all of this.

00:50:33.580 I think, uh, Eddie Penny was, uh, we were a team two together and then he went on to dev

00:50:39.660 group and, uh, just like, Oh, mom.

00:50:43.220 Like, I mean, not who you would expect to come to faith, but he was my Christmas episode,

00:50:51.180 uh, a couple of years ago.

00:50:53.240 And ever since he came on and gave his testimony of how he came to everybody that's been on

00:51:01.840 the show has brought it up.

00:51:03.600 And, um, and he became kind of a mentor of mine.

00:51:07.200 So I called Eddie and told him and I said, Hey, this is what happened.

00:51:11.160 I don't really know where to start.

00:51:14.100 I don't really know what this means.

00:51:16.200 Uh, and we had a conversation and, uh, he goes, he was like, Oh man, he's like a lot

00:51:24.300 of us have been praying for this to happen.

00:51:26.460 Wow.

00:51:26.920 And that kind of freaked me out.

00:51:28.500 I was like, well, what do you mean?

00:51:30.480 And, uh, he's like, we've been waiting for this.

00:51:32.800 He's like, you have a big voice and, and this needs to happen.

00:51:37.960 Um, and so that was at about midnight.

00:51:41.280 Um, now I'm getting into some other kind of weird synchronicity, uh, coincidences.

00:51:46.300 And so about 12 hours later, I had a meeting that Adam, uh, my T guy had scheduled with

00:51:53.220 me at noon.

00:51:53.840 And Eddie was telling, Eddie was telling me during the conversation, he was, he was talking

00:52:01.300 about guardian angels and all this other stuff that was spiritual warfare, stuff that I know

00:52:05.740 like nothing about.

00:52:07.200 Well, fast forward 12 hours.

00:52:09.540 I'm talking to Adam.

00:52:10.800 I didn't know what this meeting was.

00:52:11.960 I thought it was about email marketing or something.

00:52:14.340 And, uh, he wanted to talk to me about spiritual warfare and guardian angels.

00:52:20.640 And I was like, it was literally like almost the exact same conversation as I had had with

00:52:27.340 Eddie Penny.

00:52:27.940 You're like, that's not on the dropdown menu of message manager.

00:52:31.380 I know.

00:52:31.860 Meeting manager.

00:52:32.280 And they're not friends.

00:52:33.620 I mean, Adam is with all due respect.

00:52:36.320 They hadn't coordinated those two guys?

00:52:38.360 Eddie is a built like a shit brick house, a dev group operator.

00:52:43.040 And Adam is a IT computer nerd who I love to death.

00:52:49.060 And, uh, so no, they don't, they don't, there's no cross pollination.

00:52:52.940 They're not friends.

00:52:53.720 I've never spoken exact same conversation at noon, come home for lunch from my studio to,

00:52:59.520 uh, to be with the wife and kids.

00:53:01.540 And, um, Adam, uh, and, and anyways, I go back to work.

00:53:08.100 I look at my clock in my truck and it says it's 444.

00:53:12.580 I look at the odometer.

00:53:14.340 It says 444 miles left to E.

00:53:17.160 And this is four hours and 44 minutes after my conversation with Adam about guardian angels.

00:53:23.020 So I look up the meaning of 444 and it is your guardian angels want you to know that they have got you.

00:53:33.860 And I'm just, I'm like, holy shit, man.

00:53:38.700 Like we just had two conversations about guardian angels and now I'm saying 444 everywhere within.

00:53:45.120 I saw Gabe.

00:53:45.740 Yeah, and, and, and it's in the meaning of it, supposedly, according to Google is your guardian angels want you to know that they've got you.

00:53:56.620 And, um, and so I've been in it ever since.

00:53:59.200 And, and, uh, I've had some great mentors and started going to church that didn't last very long.

00:54:06.180 And, uh, and, uh, now we have, we have a, a group of, there's four families, including us, uh, a lot of trust, very close, uh, friends of ours.

00:54:17.760 And we, we just have a discussion every week, every, every Tuesday.

00:54:22.460 So when I get home today, that's, that's, that's what we're doing.

00:54:26.460 And, uh, it's cool.

00:54:28.240 You get to ask the tough questions.

00:54:30.320 You can't, you don't need to be embarrassed.

00:54:32.040 You're not going to offend anybody.

00:54:33.240 You don't feel judged like you're going to church every, you know, I always feel like I'm being judged.

00:54:38.580 Oh, hello, we're Catholic.

00:54:40.160 Yeah.

00:54:41.040 Built in.

00:54:42.120 And, uh, and, uh, and there's none of that.

00:54:44.340 And, um, man, you know, when you, when you kind of take all of the BS, the religion kind of injects into, uh, end of your journey of building relationship with, with the creator and Jesus.

00:55:00.260 It's, it's really interesting and it can be a lot of fun.

00:55:04.340 I know what you're saying.

00:55:05.480 I, my audience knows I've been having a not unrelated struggle on that exact score.

00:55:11.520 Really?

00:55:12.260 Yeah.

00:55:12.920 Yeah.

00:55:13.320 I'm, um, I'm Catholic, lifelong Catholic.

00:55:15.740 And I started the process of having my first marriage annulled.

00:55:19.960 And instead of like bringing me closer to God or setting me in a path that I thought would land well, it really has kind of alienated me.

00:55:28.940 And, um, it's caused a bit of a crisis of faith, you know, like who are these middlemen I have to go through in order to have a clean relationship with God?

00:55:37.540 That, that doesn't make any sense to me.

00:55:39.760 I think God loves me and God sees me in a loving marriage with three wonderful kids who have two great parents who are in love and he's thrilled.

00:55:50.540 And he will accept me into his kingdom when it's all said and done.

00:55:55.460 And if he doesn't, it's certainly not going to be because I didn't get a paper, I got a paper divorce from Dan, but I didn't get an annulment from a priest, you know, and then Mary dug in a Catholic church.

00:56:06.820 It doesn't make any sense to me.

00:56:09.700 So that's sort of where I am right now.

00:56:11.820 I'm still wrestling with it.

00:56:12.720 I got tons of great feedback, by the way, thank you to my audience because so many thoughtful emails on it, you know, from Catholic, um, listeners, but also just Christian listeners who don't believe in that, you know, middleman thing either.

00:56:26.140 I haven't resolved it.

00:56:28.320 Well, I'll keep my opinion to myself, but the middleman is a lie.

00:56:38.280 There are no middlemen.

00:56:41.100 It's just about you and your relationship.

00:56:44.040 And that's it.

00:56:45.860 No, you know that.

00:56:48.800 And when you think like that, I mean, it's a, it, it gives me a sense of peace, you know, and then you start looking at all of the things.

00:56:55.440 All the stuff that's going on, like trans visibility day being declared on Easter Sunday.

00:57:00.700 Like, you can't, like, you can't tell me these aren't signs, you know, and this is all, like I said, this is all in there.

00:57:07.520 I'm still reading through it.

00:57:08.540 I'm not through it all yet.

00:57:09.620 I don't claim to be an expert, but, but, you know, I see things.

00:57:14.480 I have a team to lean on who's well-versed in this stuff and very fortunate and, and it's everything we're seeing happen is in that book.

00:57:26.020 And when you can, when you come to that realization, it's really odd, but all the stuff that like, all the stuff that was bothering me, and it still does bother me.

00:57:39.020 But at the same time, it makes me stronger because up, that was supposed to happen, you know, up, that's in that book, up, like, really, like trans visibility day, a confusion of genders on Easter Sunday, making a mockery of the resurrection, like, that was in there.

00:58:02.240 Yep.

00:58:02.500 And, and, and, so.

00:58:06.260 So how do you feel now?

00:58:07.240 Do you feel a difference physically, you know, like emotionally?

00:58:10.400 Oh, yeah.

00:58:10.920 Now versus during the Chinese trial balloon period, which was dark?

00:58:15.860 Oh, yeah, definitely.

00:58:16.520 I mean, I'm at, I'm at peace with it.

00:58:19.380 I mean, I'm still going to fight the good fight, and I'm still going to bring truth and uncover corruption and tell these stories, and I'm not going to bend a knee to anything.

00:58:27.340 And, and, and, but, you know, it, it, but seeing it all happen, it's, it is actually making me stronger, because I found something in a world of nothing that makes any sense at all, not a damn bit of sense.

00:58:44.880 It's, this makes all the sense in the world.

00:58:47.280 It's, it aligns with the values that I've always had, or maybe I align with its values, you know, but, but it, yeah, it's helped me.

00:58:57.080 And, and then you start learning about, you know, maybe forgiveness is for you and not for the people that did something bad to you that was unjust.

00:59:11.600 You know, it's, it's, it's for your sense of peace, not for theirs.

00:59:16.020 You know, you can, you can go on and waste all that bad energy, hating somebody and talking shit about them and, you know, complaining, you know, I got screwed over and I'm a victim and da, da, da, da, da.

00:59:27.180 But the minute you forgive them, that's off your plate.

00:59:30.020 And it just, it, it's, it's, it's like a cleanse.

00:59:34.140 Amen.

00:59:39.020 God bless you.

00:59:40.960 Thank you so much.

00:59:45.380 I saw you on the view yesterday where they were trying to zero in on you and Biden and this presidential race.

00:59:52.180 And those ladies really, really, really wanted you to say that you endorse him.

00:59:57.680 You didn't want to do it, but eventually you admitted, okay, it's, it's kind of a binary choice here.

01:00:03.200 I mean, it's basically a binary choice and that you're not going to vote for Trump.

01:00:06.840 So why wouldn't you just be explicit about it?

01:00:10.400 I wondered about the hesitation.

01:00:11.740 Simply because I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a fan.

01:00:16.920 And, you know, I don't think that, you know, an endorsement, like people think that me not wanting to endorse means that I'm not voting, which I think is the strangest, strangest thing ever.

01:00:26.400 But there was another moment in that conversation where I even said, hey, there's third party candidates.

01:00:30.740 Whoopi told me she'll beat my behind if I bring up, you know, third party candidates.

01:00:35.180 So I just think it's kind of strange where we are as a culture and as a society where it's almost like there's either one of two extremes.

01:00:43.220 And if you're a person who just, you know, simply chooses to be objective, simply, you know, chooses to look at, you know, both candidates and say, hey, I think there's some right things here.

01:00:53.080 There's some wrong things there.

01:00:54.200 There's some good things here.

01:00:55.120 There's some, you know, good things over here.

01:00:57.340 Like just me being able to explore both options are all options that are out there.

01:01:02.540 For some reason, it bothers people.

01:01:05.220 And I don't understand why.

01:01:06.380 They were really pressing you.

01:01:08.300 They were like, dude, do Biden a solid.

01:01:10.740 They wanted you to go to your audience and say, vote for Biden.

01:01:13.880 And it was very strange.

01:01:15.340 Like, you know, you've got some magic wand that's going to turn this thing if you just say I endorse.

01:01:20.920 Can I ask you about third parties?

01:01:22.260 Would you consider RFKJ?

01:01:25.720 I mean, I've looked at all of them.

01:01:27.180 I've looked at RFK.

01:01:28.160 I've looked at Marianne Williamson.

01:01:29.460 I've looked at Cornel West.

01:01:31.100 Like, I've looked at all of them.

01:01:32.120 I've been looking at third parties since, you know, 2016.

01:01:37.720 Like, you know, like 2016, people would say we didn't have the best options, right?

01:01:41.520 But I felt like Hillary Clinton was, you know, overly qualified to be president.

01:01:45.580 But it's not like I didn't explore everything.

01:01:47.220 I explored—after President Obama, I explored everything.

01:01:50.060 I explored conservatives.

01:01:51.700 I explored, you know, the Green Party.

01:01:53.680 I explored Democrats.

01:01:54.920 I feel like that's what you should do as an American citizen.

01:01:58.200 You know, I don't think the two-party system, you know, has been the best thing for us here in America.

01:02:04.100 And I don't think there's anything wrong with exploring everything.

01:02:06.780 I'm actually shocked that there hasn't been a third-party candidate that's been able to come along and, like, really galvanize people.

01:02:13.240 Especially being that America seems to be, you know, so disappointed in the choices that we have now.

01:02:19.120 Mm-hmm.

01:02:19.920 Do you think that there's, like, more pressure on you to, quote, endorse because you're Black and there's a presumption that you have some influence with Black voters who, not by huge margins, but by some margins, are migrating from the Democrat to the Republican Party, or at least from Biden to Trump?

01:02:37.760 I think people—I don't know if people are—and I see the numbers, like I think I said, what, 22 percent of people, 22 percent of Black people may vote for Donald Trump.

01:02:47.200 I think that number is overstated a little bit.

01:02:49.100 But my guy, Tim Ryan, you know, who used to be a congressman in Ohio, Tim Ryan always—well, a senator in Ohio, I'm sorry.

01:02:56.000 Tim Ryan used to always—he talks about the exhausted majority.

01:02:59.580 And I think that's what most people are in this country.

01:03:02.680 We're the exhausted majority.

01:03:04.580 So it's not even just about being tired of, you know, Democrats or being tired of Republicans.

01:03:09.260 People are just tired of politics, period, you know?

01:03:12.780 And I think that's what you're seeing a lot of now.

01:03:15.780 Like, even, you know, having the conversation about, you know, who I'm choosing to vote for.

01:03:20.840 Listen, I've said it over and over what I think about both candidates, right?

01:03:26.280 And it's only May.

01:03:27.920 I don't know what's going to happen between now and November.

01:03:31.220 I don't think much is going to change.

01:03:32.760 But if these people want people to be—if these parties want people to be more energized about their candidates, maybe they should just run better candidates.

01:03:40.580 You know?

01:03:41.960 I don't think it's rocket science.

01:03:44.820 You—in the book, you write about your background.

01:03:48.180 You grew up pretty poor in a single, wide trailer and spending most of your time running around through the woods.

01:03:55.380 And had a very hardworking mom, had a more complicated relationship with your dad.

01:03:59.580 Did you ever think that that kid, right, who was learning how to catch a rattlesnake on his spare time, would be in the position now where it's like, your magic words of, I endorse this candidate would be so important, right, to political TV shows and pundits?

01:04:16.560 No, not on that aspect.

01:04:18.720 I always knew that I was, you know, here to do something.

01:04:22.260 I always felt that in my spirit.

01:04:23.700 I used to be in my grandmother's yard in Monks County, South Carolina.

01:04:26.620 And the field, like, there used to be a field in front of her yard that used to separate my grandmother's house and, like, my cousin Gloria's house.

01:04:34.620 And it's—back when I was smaller, the field seemed so big, but it's actually not that big.

01:04:38.800 But I used to always be acting like I was on a stage.

01:04:41.280 And I used to be acting like, you know, I was performing, right?

01:04:44.600 And it was always like I was in a rock band.

01:04:47.480 And then, you know, as I got older, it was like I was a rapper.

01:04:50.960 So I always knew that I was, you know, supposed to be delivering some kind of message.

01:04:55.920 And this might sound kind of crazy to some people, but I remember meeting a medium back in 2006.

01:05:03.580 And, you know, he said to me, he goes—you know, he was just talking to me, and he said, you know, you're going to achieve a lot of your goals relatively easy.

01:05:09.800 But I just want you to know that, you know, when you get the way you're supposed to go, you're here to deliver a message.

01:05:15.300 And that same medium told me that he saw, like, a microphone in my future, and he was talking about radio.

01:05:22.520 And he said—he was naming different radio personalities.

01:05:26.140 And it was not spooky at the time, but it was just like, hmm.

01:05:30.160 He even told me I was going to have a daughter.

01:05:32.340 And that was in 2006.

01:05:33.520 I didn't have my first daughter until 2008.

01:05:35.680 So long story short, I always knew—

01:05:37.960 And you ended up having four.

01:05:39.140 Long story short, I always knew that I was here to, you know, be on a platform of some sort.

01:05:45.760 But I didn't know that it would be—I didn't know I would be Captain Savor Joe in an election.

01:05:52.060 You know, I think—I read the book, and I really enjoyed it.

01:05:55.700 And I think what makes you special is your extreme ability to be introspective, reflective about your life,

01:06:03.420 to keep challenging yourself, to keep changing, keep growing.

01:06:07.820 And you're very, very honest about what you perceive as your own shortcomings,

01:06:12.460 whether it was early on in your marriage, something you addressed,

01:06:16.060 whether it was the life lessons you took from your dad and your uncle and your sort of growing up,

01:06:20.540 which you realized as an adult weren't so great.

01:06:23.120 Or even right down to—we don't have to get into it—but, like, the size of certain man parts that you just, like,

01:06:28.600 Howard Stern style, put it out there, Charlemagne.

01:06:32.120 I have to say, you're a brave man.

01:06:35.560 I don't know if you call it brave.

01:06:37.120 I just—I think that we lack self-awareness, man.

01:06:39.340 And I think that one of the main reasons that, you know, a lot of people just aren't being honest with themselves,

01:06:44.920 which is why the book is called Get Honest or Die Alying,

01:06:47.400 is because it's so easy to be real with other people, but it's so hard to be real with yourself.

01:06:53.140 And, you know, they have all of these cliché terms, like, I keep it real.

01:06:55.680 But usually the people who keep it real can only do that with others.

01:06:59.260 But, man, when that mirror gets in front of them,

01:07:01.580 it's very hard for them to have those, like, super honest conversations with they self.

01:07:06.280 And my whole life, that's what I've, you know, challenged myself to be, just honest.

01:07:10.960 Because, you know, my dad used to always tell me something when I was young.

01:07:13.640 He was like, man, when you lie to me, you're not lying to me.

01:07:17.180 You're lying to yourself.

01:07:18.580 And that's something that just always stuck with me.

01:07:20.980 And you can kind of tell the people who are lying to their self in our society.

01:07:25.820 And I went away on a spiritual retreat, you know, earlier this year, me and my wife.

01:07:29.920 And one of the things that came up for me during that time away was stop lying to yourself

01:07:35.400 and stop volunteering those lies to other people.

01:07:38.560 And that's literally what I wrote this book for.

01:07:41.260 I wrote this book for people to stop lying to themselves

01:07:43.140 and stop volunteering those lies to other people.

01:07:45.220 All right.

01:07:46.540 I've got to read you this because my fourth grade boy was at an end of year ceremony just

01:07:52.360 two days ago.

01:07:53.480 And my husband and I went and their fourth grade teacher read to this class of boys the

01:07:57.420 following poem, which speaks exactly to what you're saying.

01:08:00.040 I cried.

01:08:00.540 I'm not going to lie.

01:08:01.280 You're a dad.

01:08:02.040 You can be able to relate.

01:08:03.240 But it's called That Guy in the Glass.

01:08:05.400 It's by Dale Wimbrough.

01:08:06.980 And it goes as follows.

01:08:08.620 When you get what you want in your struggle for self and the world makes you king for a

01:08:12.020 day, then go to the mirror and look at yourself and see what that guy has to say.

01:08:17.120 For it isn't your mother, brother or friends whose judgment you must pass.

01:08:20.560 The person whose verdict counts most in your life is the one staring back at the glass.

01:08:26.980 You can go down the pathway of years receiving pats on the back as you pass.

01:08:31.360 But your final reward will be heartache and tears if you cheated that guy in the glass.

01:08:39.220 That's exactly what you're saying.

01:08:40.560 That's the theme of your book in some ways.

01:08:42.840 Powerful words.

01:08:43.920 Whoever that was who wrote that, they remixed Michael Jackson's Man in the Mirror.

01:08:47.540 I just want you to know I'm talking about the man in the mirror.

01:08:53.940 Yeah.

01:08:54.360 I'm asking him to change his way.

01:08:57.020 That's all that is.

01:08:58.420 But whoever wrote that is absolutely positively true.

01:09:00.640 The hardest thing for us to do is look in the mirror every day and be honest with ourselves.

01:09:05.280 And I literally challenge myself every day.

01:09:08.360 I wake up every day.

01:09:09.320 And before I'm honest with anybody else, before I'm telling anybody else about what I think

01:09:14.500 they may be doing wrong, or if I give them compliments on what they're doing right, I

01:09:18.780 talk to myself first.

01:09:20.580 That inner voice in your head, the things you tell yourself are really the most important.

01:09:26.060 And that's what I do every morning.

01:09:27.260 It's something you've worked at.

01:09:30.720 You've cultivated.

01:09:31.640 I, you talk in the book about the therapy you've been through all the way down to, I

01:09:37.120 don't know if this, this didn't exactly come from your therapist, but you have a spiritual

01:09:41.220 guru in your life as well.

01:09:42.480 And the tree hugging, you're a tree hugger, but not exactly in the green new deal sense

01:09:49.120 in a different kind of way.

01:09:50.700 Explain.

01:09:50.900 Yeah, it's a, it's a chapter called tree hug the block.

01:09:54.780 And, you know, I just talk about the benefits of, you know, doing things like forest bathing,

01:09:59.240 you know, walking around in your yard with your shoes off and your socks off and just

01:10:03.780 doing grounding exercises, you know, going up to trees, putting both hands on the trees,

01:10:08.260 putting your forehead on the tree, taking a few deep breaths, you know, saying a prayer,

01:10:12.140 you know, sometimes, you know, just, just sitting shirtless with your back to the tree.

01:10:17.760 You know, uh, me and one of my spiritual advisors, her name is Yadi Alba.

01:10:21.380 We laugh because, you know, she always says, you know, lay down in the ground, face, face

01:10:25.220 down, ass up.

01:10:26.320 Right.

01:10:26.900 And just, just let the, let the earth just feel the earth.

01:10:30.220 And man, you'd be surprised how when you're stressed out or if, you know, you're, you know,

01:10:34.420 battling like about a depression or your anxiety levels are high, you'd be surprised how that

01:10:38.660 just brings you right back to center.

01:10:41.000 And, you know, we used to laugh, you know, back at, back in the day at the people who used to

01:10:44.640 consider themselves, you know, tree huggers.

01:10:46.820 And you'd be like, oh man, they just high.

01:10:48.900 Everything, everything is great when you're high.

01:10:51.040 And guess what?

01:10:51.860 Megan, they right.

01:10:52.840 You know, when you're walking around doing some grounding in the backyard, even when you're

01:10:57.700 not high, it really does feel great.

01:10:59.740 And it really does bring you back to center in a real way.

01:11:02.060 I like the beach too.

01:11:03.760 I like walking, you know, barefoot on the beach.

01:11:05.700 You know, I would hope I'm, I would hope the only time you're walking on the beach is

01:11:09.600 barefoot, but walking on the beach barefoot, going in the ocean, you know, you know, being

01:11:13.920 in the ocean, looking right up at the sun, saying a prayer directly from the water to

01:11:17.320 the sun, man, all of that brings you back to center in such real ways.

01:11:21.380 I know you say in the book, if you, if you're feeling self-conscious about hugging a tree

01:11:25.980 of actually hugging a tree, putting your face up against the tree, start small, maybe just

01:11:30.780 sit with your back up against the tree.

01:11:32.380 So people don't think you're crazy, but you could kind of graduate to a full five minute

01:11:36.120 hug of a tree and it actually could be transformative.

01:11:39.020 That's such a beautiful way of dealing with anxiety, which you admit you have dealt with

01:11:43.660 for years versus just taking a pill, which is what the medical community will push on

01:11:48.280 you these days.

01:11:49.440 Oh, absolutely.

01:11:50.500 You know, I'm not, I'm not against, you know, anybody who needs medication, you know,

01:11:54.340 for certain things, but, you know, personally I've, I've, I've never had to use it.

01:11:58.640 I remember my father, even when I was young, when they were trying to put me on like

01:12:01.400 Ritalin as a child, you know, my father was like, no, he, you know, back then though,

01:12:05.720 it wasn't, you know, he don't need Ritalin cause he don't need to just be on medication.

01:12:09.460 It was, he don't need no Ritalin.

01:12:10.740 He needs that beat.

01:12:11.660 Right.

01:12:11.920 So, but even now it's like, I don't, we don't, we don't necessarily, medicine shouldn't

01:12:16.900 be the first option all the time.

01:12:19.600 You know, I feel like, you know, this is a glorious earth that we, that we're on.

01:12:23.260 And like, there's a lot of natural remedies and holistic remedies that we could be, you know,

01:12:27.680 tapping into that bring us those same results.

01:12:30.480 A lot of those things in the pharmaceutical, pharmaceutical world too.

01:12:35.260 So how did you make it so big in radio and now podcasting too, with the kind of anxiety

01:12:42.720 that you suffer from?

01:12:44.480 And as you were growing up, you talk about how it was very much social anxiety.

01:12:48.600 How, how did you get over that?

01:12:50.120 How do you deal with that to this day?

01:12:52.040 That's the strangest thing about anxiety, right?

01:12:54.580 Like anxiety creeps up on you at weird times.

01:12:58.120 It's those times when you're just literally laying on your couch at home.

01:13:03.100 And then all of a sudden you get up and you start checking to see if all the doors are

01:13:07.100 locked, right?

01:13:08.460 Or, or, you know, um, like, like you can be laying on the couch and there's a ceiling

01:13:13.960 fan going and you just start thinking to yourself, what if that ceiling fan, you know, flies

01:13:18.000 off and like cuts my head off?

01:13:19.900 Like it's just the stupidest, strangest things.

01:13:22.120 But when it comes to like getting in front of a microphone and talking to millions of

01:13:27.960 people, yes, there's a level of anxiety there, but for some reason it doesn't give you, you

01:13:33.900 know, those same panic attacks of just going through regular everyday life.

01:13:40.080 I have no idea why I'm able to get in front of a microphone and, you know, talk to millions

01:13:45.960 of people effortlessly, but I can't be in a party with 50 people without wanting to go

01:13:52.740 home, you know, cause I'm already having a panic attack.

01:13:55.720 Cause I'm thinking about, you know, the worst possible scenarios happening.

01:14:00.540 I am too, but it's usually that guy over there is going to come over here and talk to me.

01:14:03.860 It's not about the ceiling fan.

01:14:04.980 It's like, Oh God, I don't want to deal with him.

01:14:07.500 That is actually another reason I wrote this book.

01:14:10.400 That's, that's, that's why I think small talk sucks because I don't think they understand

01:14:14.020 when you're a person who's already dealing with anxiety and you've had to say prayers

01:14:19.300 and do breathing exercises and, and, and, and put your beads on, right.

01:14:23.600 And all your, all your other things just to show up in the world.

01:14:27.740 The last thing I want to do is have a meaningless conversation with a stranger,

01:14:33.040 like at least come into my life or come up to me and bring me a conversation of value

01:14:39.080 that may ease, you know, whatever it is I got going on.

01:14:42.980 I tell a story in the book about, I tell a story in the book, how I was at the airport

01:14:47.180 and, you know, you know, I'm a person who's been attacked in the street a couple of times,

01:14:51.360 right?

01:14:51.580 Like right here, right here in New York city, you know, just for things that I've said on

01:14:54.740 the radio, like, you know, back in the day though, not, not anything recently, but like

01:14:57.640 over a decade ago.

01:14:58.920 And, but I'm still, you still have that PTSD from things like that.

01:15:01.880 So I'm at the airport and this guy comes up to me and he's trying to talk, but he's

01:15:07.740 like, not really saying anything.

01:15:10.120 So automatically I'm on alert.

01:15:12.500 And then he finally goes, he's stuttering and he's telling me that he has a speech impediment.

01:15:18.160 So he's asking me to bear with him while he gets out what it is he's trying to get out.

01:15:24.420 He cut the small talk, you know, and he told me exactly what it was from the beginning.

01:15:29.860 So that one little moment eases my anxiety and lets me know, okay, this person isn't,

01:15:35.020 isn't, isn't a foe.

01:15:36.120 He's not, he's not any type of opposition in any way, shape or form.

01:15:39.100 He just has something he wants to say to me and it's hard for him to get out.

01:15:42.360 And if that, if that individual who has a speech impediment can let me know that we

01:15:47.720 can do the same thing.

01:15:48.720 We should be able to tell people, Hey man, I don't want to talk about that right now.

01:15:53.000 And if we ever linked social anxiety to the hatred of small talk, I have to say, I too

01:16:01.440 hate small talk and have a fair amount of social anxiety, not anxiety in the regular lane,

01:16:06.460 but social anxiety.

01:16:07.880 And I, I had never linked the two.

01:16:10.720 This is actually an insightful thought that one is causing the other.

01:16:15.940 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM.

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01:17:20.280 Charlie, congratulations.

01:17:23.100 Thank you.

01:17:24.120 Well, as Kamala Harris would say, we did it, Joe, but we did it, Megan.

01:17:28.480 And your speech was awesome, by the way.

01:17:33.120 Thank you for your support and how amazing that was.

01:17:36.360 I really believe that moved votes and not to mention just your podcast here.

01:17:41.140 I think it held the line with sane women in this country and gave them an understanding

01:17:46.380 of the stakes and gave them an understanding of really what we are up against.

01:17:50.900 And so you deserve a lot of credit to Megan, because this was really a coalition.

01:17:54.820 Um, there's so much to unpack from this election.

01:17:58.500 Uh, part of it is also how alternative media was able to crush, uh, the major propagandist

01:18:05.200 networks.

01:18:06.000 And you look at four years ago during COVID, all of our alternative media was largely censored,

01:18:11.160 but we won this time podcast and shows like this one, Joe Rogan, my show, um, the all in

01:18:17.380 podcast, uh, the left couldn't keep up with it.

01:18:20.060 And president Trump, to his great credit, uh, built a once in a lifetime unity ticket, which

01:18:26.740 I think the media completely underestimated from Bobby Kennedy to Tulsi Gabbard.

01:18:32.140 Um, and then finally, of course, it cannot be repeated enough.

01:18:36.080 God bless Elon Musk.

01:18:37.340 I mean, that guy put it all on the line.

01:18:39.700 I mean, it wasn't just like he wrote a check and hoped it would get better.

01:18:43.660 He lived in Pennsylvania the last 45 days of the election.

01:18:48.220 He personally would host town halls across the state of Pennsylvania.

01:18:53.480 He was giving away a million dollars a day to random citizens to help encourage citizen

01:18:58.140 participation.

01:18:59.220 And so there's a lot of people that deserve credit.

01:19:01.800 We all kind of played a small role.

01:19:03.820 Uh, and that's why it feels so different than 2016.

01:19:07.020 2016 was just lightning in a bottle, took him by surprise.

01:19:10.700 It was a movement.

01:19:11.380 This was really 30 or 40 different people that went all in that.

01:19:16.900 We just called the bluff of the Democrats and we beat the most powerful thing ever to exist

01:19:22.840 in the history of the world.

01:19:24.780 It's pretty awesome.

01:19:25.820 Praise God.

01:19:26.480 Oh, it's amazing.

01:19:27.580 And you are so generous and kind to be giving me any credit when you truly deserve actual credit

01:19:34.060 for getting Donald Trump elected.

01:19:35.300 I mean, truly you're one of a handful of five that really made the difference and we need

01:19:40.060 look no further than the youth vote.

01:19:42.200 That wasn't the exclusive reign of your influence, but man, when have young people come out for

01:19:50.460 the Republican?

01:19:52.060 I mean, like never.

01:19:53.440 And especially in today's day and age where he's been totally demonized all over TikTok and

01:19:59.220 the sources of information that they use, but you reached billions.

01:20:05.180 I mean, obviously there's not that many people voting in this election, but I mean, the number

01:20:09.280 of views of your videos going out onto these college campuses, you know, uh, challenging them

01:20:15.500 saying, go ahead.

01:20:16.440 Like, why are you voting for her?

01:20:17.980 Let's walk through it.

01:20:18.960 That would go viral every time we have to look at some of them.

01:20:21.600 Cause like I said, it's just so fun right now.

01:20:23.880 Uh, here's one woman who was very much determined, uh, to believe that Donald Trump is a racist

01:20:30.180 and here's Charlie dismantling her.

01:20:32.480 Sought to.

01:20:33.840 You've got to give me a good reason, at least two, why you don't like Trump.

01:20:38.320 He's racist.

01:20:39.720 Oh my God.

01:20:40.920 Yup.

01:20:41.580 Boomy.

01:20:43.200 Can you, can you define what does it mean to be racist?

01:20:49.100 Do you, do you want me to look up a definition?

01:20:51.140 No, no, I want you to, you, you said he's a racist, so you must, you must have a definition

01:20:55.100 of racism in your mind.

01:20:56.580 Tell me what that definition is.

01:20:59.220 Okay.

01:20:59.900 So.

01:21:01.520 I'm going to make, make you guys wait on this.

01:21:05.000 Ooh, zero knowledge.

01:21:06.860 Guys, please don't heckle.

01:21:08.220 It's hatred towards another race, right?

01:21:11.220 So when has he ever exhibited that?

01:21:13.300 Give me clear and specific examples.

01:21:16.060 You got one?

01:21:16.580 Um, well, yeah, I heard someone say he told, uh, told.

01:21:28.960 Yes.

01:21:30.200 Okay.

01:21:30.640 But let me just help you out here.

01:21:32.320 Uh-huh.

01:21:33.900 What you think he's a racist, because the media has told you he's a racist, because you

01:21:38.540 can't give me an example off the top of your head.

01:21:40.420 And even when you phone a friend of the audience, not, I'm not criticizing you.

01:21:44.000 Maybe the media is lying to you.

01:21:47.340 Wow.

01:21:48.380 Truer words were never spoken.

01:21:49.720 How many exchanges do you think you had like that on college campuses?

01:21:53.080 Oh, I mean, we, we, we had hundreds this semester.

01:21:55.720 That particular video, by the way, received over 60 million views on TikTok alone, uh, 60.

01:22:01.000 And that's just, and, uh, so we tallied it up.

01:22:03.380 It was again, billions of views.

01:22:04.680 That means that target young voters were watching our content six, seven, eight, nine,

01:22:09.280 10 times.

01:22:10.760 And so, so Megan, we do these tours.

01:22:12.480 I visited 25 college campuses, uh, this semester, which is the most I've ever done.

01:22:17.540 And over the summer, we said, how do we make a difference?

01:22:19.920 And we were doing these videos in the spring.

01:22:22.040 And I came up with the idea.

01:22:23.200 I said, man, I think the election is going to be as hot as a pistol.

01:22:26.040 I think there's going to be a lot of interest.

01:22:27.980 Why don't we do the most tours ever?

01:22:29.420 But instead of the traditional evening events, why don't we do these kinds of dialogues and

01:22:33.920 these exchanges to try to see if we can, um, show the world, the contrast of ideas and

01:22:40.360 to see which ideas are better.

01:22:41.640 And to kind of create, um, this digital movement of people that are want to make up their mind.

01:22:48.940 And, and Megan, it was way more successful than I could have ever imagined.

01:22:52.440 And part of it was how unscripted it was.

01:22:55.660 There was, there was no, anyone could come up at any time.

01:22:58.620 A professor, a professional debater, you could bring notes, you could bring 10 friends with

01:23:03.580 you.

01:23:03.780 It doesn't, there's no rules, right?

01:23:05.460 And so that's very interesting to an audience, both digital and in person.

01:23:09.600 And it was so real when so much of this campaign on the Democrat side was fake and synthetic.

01:23:16.940 And so here we were with the most real thing you can do, which is set up a table and talk

01:23:22.200 to people that are 180 degrees opposed to you.

01:23:25.680 And so we started doing these events in early.

01:23:28.400 The first one we did was university, Wisconsin, Madison, and we drew 2000 people.

01:23:33.520 And I said, I've been doing this for 12 years.

01:23:35.840 Okay.

01:23:36.600 I've done more in college campuses than I think anybody in this space, not, you know,

01:23:40.600 belittling anybody, but it's been the fields of which I've been working for 12 years.

01:23:44.160 We'd be lucky to get like a hundred people and a lot of protesters, right?

01:23:48.380 We drew 2000 people in Madison as our first one in September.

01:23:51.540 And I turned to my team, I said, is this an anomaly?

01:23:53.660 Is there something happening at Madison that I don't know?

01:23:56.320 And all of a sudden we did three or four more and it was becoming the rule.

01:23:59.940 And I said to my team, I said, guys, something is happening on these campuses and the media

01:24:05.820 was ignoring it.

01:24:06.620 In fact, we were mocked on social media by all this, the intelligency of the political

01:24:12.340 establishment, right?

01:24:13.980 And the left saying, oh, you know, the, the polls show that younger voters are going to

01:24:17.860 go for Kamala than ever before.

01:24:19.000 And I said, well, maybe, but what I'm seeing is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

01:24:23.820 And not only that, Megan, our ground game and our ground team was registering these kids

01:24:27.600 to vote, we were getting thousands and thousands of these first time voters.

01:24:31.500 So it wasn't just like, okay, let's put on a show and we leave.

01:24:34.720 We were translating the support into votes, which is kind of the, was the operating thesis.

01:24:41.380 It was our, our, our theory of the case, if you will, as we were going into this.

01:24:45.760 And then finally, as a kicker, you know, we had Mark McKinnon go to one of our campus stops

01:24:51.200 who's a fair guy, but he's definitely not a Trumper.

01:24:54.320 And he was a Bush guy.

01:24:55.480 He did the circus.

01:24:56.380 Uh, and I, I've always had respect for him and he, he started to see this stuff on social

01:25:00.740 media and to his credit, to his credit, unlike anybody else, he's like, I need to see this.

01:25:04.640 I don't believe, he was almost like, I don't believe it.

01:25:06.840 So he went to the university of Georgia and we drew 5,000 people, Megan, 5,000 people, uh,

01:25:12.340 at the university of Georgia.

01:25:13.360 And he went and he was like, I said that Kamala was going to win, but now I'm second guessing

01:25:18.800 myself based on what he saw.

01:25:20.540 I was like, yeah, Mark, I mean, there's something happening here.

01:25:23.060 And now the exit polls, we won the youth vote in Michigan.

01:25:26.300 We almost won it in Wisconsin.

01:25:28.660 In Pennsylvania, we don't know, but we almost flipped center county, which is Penn state.

01:25:33.680 We got within one point of it, which usually it's a 20 point Democrat victory there.

01:25:38.300 And we went to Penn state and did a massive event.

01:25:40.700 We did five events in Penn state, by the way, um, this cycle for obvious reasons.

01:25:45.160 And it's, it's, it's tempting to say that it was a landslide, which it was, however, let

01:25:51.080 me kind of humble the audience a little bit.

01:25:53.200 Donald Trump won by less than a point, Wisconsin, about 28,000 votes.

01:25:58.000 He won by a point ish point point 1.2 in Michigan.

01:26:03.020 And then he won by one point in Pennsylvania.

01:26:06.240 And so Megan, it is conceivable that without this record movement of youth vote, he doesn't

01:26:12.520 win.

01:26:12.940 And I'm not saying that because I'm, you know, in that space, but we're talking about

01:26:18.640 a point and a half across three states.

01:26:20.980 Now the Sunbelt states were more generous and were more decisive.

01:26:25.000 But as you know, everyone was saying, if you can't win a Rust Belt state, Kamala is president.

01:26:29.760 So you could say that the kids are all right.

01:26:32.560 And the kids put Donald Trump back in the white house.

01:26:35.560 It's incredible.

01:26:36.700 I mean, no one's really paid that much attention to them before.

01:26:39.620 It's one of those things where Republicans have always assumed they're not gettable.

01:26:42.860 And then along comes Charlie Kirk.

01:26:44.800 I mean, I don't mean to go totally biblical on you, but I really feel like this is destiny.

01:26:49.680 And I've been thinking about you this past week so much because I know we talked about

01:26:53.860 this in 2016.

01:26:54.660 You were like Don Jr.'s assistant.

01:26:57.880 You were helping him with bags.

01:27:00.040 I was getting diet Red Bulls for, oh, no, no, a sugar-free Red Bulls for Don Jr.

01:27:04.460 I was, you know, I had no Twitter followers.

01:27:06.420 We had Turning Point, but it was a small thing.

01:27:08.920 And yeah, eight years ago, I was a bag carrier.

01:27:12.980 It's incredible.

01:27:13.900 OK, so this is what made me think of you, among other things, the obvious.

01:27:17.480 I know you saw this clip.

01:27:19.400 Her disgusting, gross elitism and her complete out-of-touch nature with respect to the rest

01:27:25.600 of the world, Sonny Hostin, goes on The View and decides now would be a great time to dump

01:27:31.300 all over the so-called uneducated, not non-college educated, the uneducated, which is what you

01:27:39.180 are in Sonny Hostin's view, including you, Charlie Kirk, because she's conflating, right,

01:27:45.300 people who didn't go to college with people who are uneducated.

01:27:48.400 We've got to look at the clip, and then I need your reaction.

01:27:51.880 What we did not have is white women who voted about 52%, right, for Donald Trump.

01:27:58.460 Uneducated white women is my understanding.

01:28:00.760 You have Latino men actually voting more for him.

01:28:04.500 And you have, and black men was not the story, were not the story here, because they voted

01:28:08.940 almost 80% for the vice president.

01:28:10.900 So why do you think that uneducated white women voted against their reproductive health

01:28:15.800 freedoms?

01:28:16.440 And why do you think Latino men voted in favor of someone that's going to deport, says he's

01:28:22.520 going to deport the majority of his community?

01:28:24.240 I don't think white women like being called uneducated white women.

01:28:26.620 I think the economy matters, national security matters.

01:28:29.340 But when you put people in these boxes, I think that's a takeaway from this, right?

01:28:34.120 Okay, it's amazing.

01:28:36.420 She's specifically there referring to the women, but of course, it's the non-college educated

01:28:39.880 men as well who voted for Donald Trump and the nerve of this woman to whom the country

01:28:44.120 has given so much to try to dump on people who didn't go to college.

01:28:48.560 Look at you.

01:28:49.260 Look at your achievements.

01:28:50.440 How do you like the so-called uneducated now, Sonny?

01:28:54.340 Yeah, and again, by the way, rarely do you get the answer to a question in the question.

01:29:01.360 And her whole question is exactly why there was a rebellion against them.

01:29:05.480 Listen, just because you didn't go to college doesn't mean you're stupid.

01:29:09.880 And it doesn't mean that you don't have wisdom.

01:29:11.640 I always differentiate between knowledge and wisdom.

01:29:14.120 You can go to college and get a bunch of irrelevant facts about how men can allegedly give birth

01:29:20.500 or whatever they teach.

01:29:21.940 I mean, it's or about North African lesbian poetry.

01:29:25.480 Okay, that stuff's fine, I guess.

01:29:27.520 Or, but I said this to our team.

01:29:31.200 I said working people, the muscular class, including working women in the sense of, you

01:29:38.380 know, waitresses and women that work for Amazon.

01:29:40.960 And there's a lot of women delivery drivers.

01:29:44.200 They are so in favor of Trump and they don't want to be called stupid or uneducated.

01:29:49.760 And I've said this for so long and it's finally manifested, which is that it is laced into how

01:29:55.840 we do our public opinion polling.

01:29:58.700 And she played into it perfectly because I've said this for a decade.

01:30:02.600 And finally, I have a piece of evidence to show this more than anything else, that we

01:30:06.900 look at how we elect our leaders in two buckets, stupid and smart.

01:30:11.880 And the stupid people are the people that don't have a certificate from Yale.

01:30:15.320 And the smart people are $200,000 in debt because they went to Drake.

01:30:22.000 And so the breakdown though, is that Donald Trump, which by the way, is just smart politics

01:30:28.820 because there's more people that didn't go to college than did go to college.

01:30:32.540 And I know that's really hard for the Democrats to realize because everyone in their circle

01:30:36.680 went to college, but the majority of the country actually does not have a four-year college

01:30:41.460 diploma.

01:30:41.860 The majority of the country are people that have two-year technical degrees or community

01:30:46.260 college, or they just went into the workforce right out of high school.

01:30:49.340 And so Donald Trump gave these people a voice because they're tired of being told that they're

01:30:54.540 stupid just because they didn't go into debt to go study that something that doesn't matter

01:30:59.740 to find jobs that don't exist.

01:31:02.040 And these people, by the way, Megan, both men and women, we call them, as I said, the muscular

01:31:07.120 class.

01:31:07.620 They are the ones that kept the economy alive to great personal risk for themselves and their

01:31:13.120 family during COVID.

01:31:15.020 They're the ones that delivered you your Uber Eats for three months on straight while you

01:31:20.500 in the laptop class were able to keep on doing your job by opening your laptop in the comfort

01:31:25.960 of your home while the Amazon trucks were still delivered and the supply chain went uninterrupted.

01:31:31.280 Those people have felt belittled, they have felt talked down to, and Donald Trump communicated

01:31:38.120 with them better than any candidate since Ronald Reagan in 1988.

01:31:42.500 And the final point I'll say is this, is, Sonny, do you guys thought that abortion was going

01:31:49.560 to be this quasi-zealot religious issue?

01:31:53.600 I'm pro-life.

01:31:54.500 If people in the audience aren't, that's fine.

01:31:56.180 What I'm saying, though, what gives me promise, and I think we can all agree on this, is that

01:32:01.800 there are other issues that should animate and drive our politics other than this very

01:32:07.340 divisive one.

01:32:08.460 And I was really encouraged by that, Megan, very encouraged, because the media was forcing

01:32:14.320 this as an up or down vote on a referendum on a highly complicated, very emotional, very

01:32:21.400 personal issue, and it turned out the American people were like, yeah, actually, these other

01:32:26.300 six things matter more, and good for them.

01:32:29.960 By the way, Sonny Hostin, I think, went to Notre Dame, her son's at Harvard, her daughter's

01:32:35.500 at Cornell, she's married to the Ivy League, and that's why she looks down on everyone else

01:32:41.900 as a bunch of stupid losers who didn't vote the right way because they're not as smart as

01:32:48.200 she is.

01:32:49.020 I spent many years across from Sonny Hostin on the set of Bill O'Reilly.

01:32:53.420 She is not as smart as she thinks she is.

01:32:55.840 In fact, I defy you to show me one debate we ever had that she won.

01:32:59.340 There isn't one.

01:33:01.280 So I'm not done with the Charlie Kirk homage.

01:33:05.160 Oh, boy.

01:33:05.720 We put together a little bit of you on your college tour just so the audience can see

01:33:09.840 some of the hard work you were doing.

01:33:11.940 Let's play Sop 1.

01:33:14.020 Can you tell me her greatest accomplishment?

01:33:16.060 No, I can't.

01:33:16.800 Can you tell me a single accomplishment?

01:33:19.780 I cannot.

01:33:20.800 I want to leave.

01:33:25.440 What is Kamala Harris' greatest accomplishment?

01:33:32.840 Could you please explain why under a Trump presidency it would be more beneficial to me than

01:33:39.200 a Harris presidency?

01:33:40.340 I want to try to win you over as a liberal for Donald Trump.

01:33:42.880 Why should I vote for Trump?

01:33:45.160 There's no guesswork in this election.

01:33:46.860 We know the type of president that Trump was and that he will be.

01:33:49.540 There are three things I want you to think about when voting for Trump.

01:33:53.040 Homeownership, border, war.

01:33:54.940 Three objective things.

01:33:56.500 When I decide, just in case, can I have a hat?

01:33:59.320 You can have a hat.

01:34:00.360 So which way are you leaning?

01:34:01.800 Can I get a hat?

01:34:03.440 That's a good answer.

01:34:04.680 How are you leaning this election?

01:34:05.760 Well, after what you said, Trump, let's go.

01:34:13.080 All right.

01:34:13.580 And two points on that, Charlie.

01:34:14.740 So we had a bunch of kids from my son's high school here with me in studio on election night.

01:34:20.400 And, you know, maybe like whatever, 15 of them.

01:34:22.720 And they were all Trump supporters where there was no screening, like we're only taking the

01:34:28.040 Trump supporters, but that just happened to be how it worked out.

01:34:31.100 And that third point, war, was a big one for all of them.

01:34:35.680 They're actually really worried about this neocon strain in the Democrat party because

01:34:42.480 they're the ones who are going to have to go fight it.

01:34:45.080 And so you were tapping into exactly the right thing.

01:34:47.860 And then one other cue point, my kids are in school all day and therefore do not listen

01:34:52.860 to my show every day.

01:34:53.800 They listen to it here and there and they get clips on social media.

01:34:57.260 And we were talking this week about who I had coming on today.

01:35:00.160 And I told him, Charlie Kirk.

01:35:01.960 And my son and my daughter, she's 13, he's 15, go, you know, Charlie Kirk.

01:35:08.360 I'm like, yes, I know Charlie Kirk.

01:35:11.120 Yes.

01:35:11.820 Could we meet Charlie Kirk?

01:35:13.300 I think I could arrange it at some point.

01:35:14.680 But that's how young, like a 13-year-old girl, she's seen your clips.

01:35:19.140 She's been influenced by you.

01:35:20.620 They watched you on that show.

01:35:22.040 Where do they surround you when you debate all the people?

01:35:24.940 Jubilee.

01:35:25.580 They watched you there.

01:35:26.220 That was something.

01:35:26.960 I mean, you're making a huge difference, not just in today's voters, but in the next

01:35:31.640 up and coming ones who are going to be voting four years from now, Charlie.

01:35:35.360 It's huge.

01:35:36.360 I do feel there's something divine going on.

01:35:38.580 You were chosen for some reason.

01:35:40.180 Well, I'm humbled.

01:35:41.820 And I said this, well, thank you, Megan.

01:35:43.280 And I'd love to meet your kids.

01:35:45.360 And I just, I said this on election night.

01:35:48.700 God gave us grace as a nation.

01:35:50.900 I'm humbled by it.

01:35:52.660 I say praise God.

01:35:54.560 I'm just a small part.

01:35:55.800 And he used what we were doing.

01:35:57.800 I mean this.

01:35:58.840 I had zero expectation that what we were going to do was actually going to move the dial this

01:36:04.900 much.

01:36:05.320 We did it out of obedience.

01:36:06.660 We did it out of, hey, let's play the role.

01:36:09.340 You know what it's like on a campaign, right, Megan?

01:36:11.400 Oh, we can move, you know, a couple hundred people and do your part.

01:36:15.260 And it all adds up.

01:36:16.380 I had no idea that this thing was going to set off the way it did.

01:36:20.880 And, I mean, we look at, we look at these youth vote numbers.

01:36:25.960 It's not normal.

01:36:27.460 It's not.

01:36:28.640 It's the best performance by a Republican since 1988.

01:36:33.340 And allow me to say one other thing about the youth vote that I think you'll really

01:36:36.140 appreciate, Megan, which is the Democrats underestimated how much pent-up rebellion

01:36:42.200 energy was there because of how they were treated and lied to during COVID and the political

01:36:48.640 correct regime that coupled with COVID.

01:36:51.800 So they lost proms, graduations.

01:36:54.540 They had to wear masks.

01:36:55.800 They were on Zoom class.

01:36:56.940 And then during it, they were propagandized with the most ferocious, aggressive, misleading

01:37:03.240 left-wing propaganda on race, on sexuality, on gender, on America that we've ever seen.

01:37:10.680 And so now, four years later, this Gen Z was like, you know what?

01:37:15.600 You guys in charge, the same people that were trying to lock up Trump, you guys materially

01:37:21.860 messed up my life and I don't like you.

01:37:24.320 And I think the Democrats misread the vibe, you know, for all about, you know, they're

01:37:30.600 about the vibe.

01:37:31.600 They misread it.

01:37:32.960 And we happened to read the room.

01:37:36.140 We saw it.

01:37:37.080 And again, these kids were disproportionately punished for doing nothing wrong during COVID

01:37:44.400 for extended periods of time.

01:37:46.900 And the Democrats just shrugged their shoulders.

01:37:49.300 Oh, kids will get over it.

01:37:50.400 Think about it, Megan.

01:37:51.200 You know, you remember probably years 13 through 17 more than years, you know, 23 through 27.

01:37:57.940 Those are your formative years.

01:37:59.660 And they were robbed by these kids, from these kids.

01:38:03.360 And so we played into that in the best possible way.

01:38:06.960 And Donald Trump became this ascendant symbol of we're going to take back the country so that

01:38:14.200 you can have a better future.

01:38:15.840 And as I said, at almost every campus stop, you guys represent the first generation since

01:38:20.860 George Washington to have it worse off than your parents.

01:38:23.900 It is a breakdown of the social contract.

01:38:26.300 You are the most depressed, anxious, suicidal, drug addicted, psychiatric drug addicted, alcohol

01:38:34.240 addicted generation in history.

01:38:36.160 You guys deserve better.

01:38:38.060 We do politics basically for one reason, to leave a better future for our kids.

01:38:42.660 All the other stuff is fine, but that's really why we do this, right, so that you can keep

01:38:46.460 this beautiful experiment going.

01:38:48.280 And we failed in that.

01:38:49.880 And this next generation had a say to try to make sure that they could also have access

01:38:54.200 to the American dream like their parents.

01:38:55.980 And they spoke decisively.

01:38:57.900 And every Democrat right now is scratching their head, going through precinct by precinct,

01:39:02.580 wondering why there are safe spots of college campuses like Dane County, Wisconsin,

01:39:07.380 like Center County, Pennsylvania, like Arizona State, like University of Arizona in Tucson,

01:39:13.620 why they moved 20 to 25 points in Donald Trump's direction.

01:39:18.840 Well, it's amazing.

01:39:19.960 Just the right combination of recognizing what the issues were as created by the Democrats

01:39:24.180 and then getting in there and doing the work to exploit them, to reach out to these kids,

01:39:28.600 to say, let me let me give you the proper framework for it.

01:39:32.140 You know, I mean, I feel like that's half of what I do on this show.

01:39:34.860 Let me give you the framework for what's being done to you right now.

01:39:38.000 Because they just take out their fire hose and they train it on you.

01:39:43.320 And most people are just like on their heels getting completely pummeled by the fire hose

01:39:47.240 of information about what terrible people they are and why they have to believe boys can become

01:39:51.920 girls or whatever your issue is.

01:39:54.040 And it does help to have somebody like you go on and say, let me put in perspective what

01:39:59.280 you're feeling, like the stuff about the anxiety.

01:40:01.240 That's not normal.

01:40:02.160 You don't have to live like this.

01:40:03.440 This has been done to you.

01:40:06.860 I do want to show you something that's happening on college campuses, a few things.

01:40:10.960 But before I move on to that, this is worth playing.

01:40:15.160 At the moment, Trump announced or that it was announced that Trump won,

01:40:19.960 sought three and Charlie's reaction.

01:40:24.440 Let's go.

01:40:26.000 There it is.

01:40:26.620 Everybody should remember this moment.

01:40:33.300 Look, I'm going to echo Charlie from earlier.

01:40:35.940 Remember where you were when this happened.

01:40:38.600 Remember where you were when you realized that the Uniparty and all of these, you know,

01:40:43.960 just the establishment, you said it's time to actually participate.

01:40:48.400 And look what you guys have done.

01:40:49.720 And if anyone deserves to get tears in his eyes, it's Charlie.

01:40:54.980 I think we all agree.

01:40:56.100 I think Erica was chopping some onions or something in the break room.

01:40:59.280 No one has worked harder than Charlie for this.

01:41:01.180 We got to hear some words here from you, Charlie.

01:41:03.960 You put all this together, my man.

01:41:05.340 Let's hear it.

01:41:06.080 I am just humbled by God.

01:41:09.180 It's all God.

01:41:11.200 It's all God.

01:41:11.820 Oh, that is emotional to watch.

01:41:15.960 I share your feeling, Charlie.

01:41:18.380 I felt it that night, too.

01:41:20.880 I just I was humbled and blown away because I throughout this entire thing, I'm getting

01:41:27.400 emotional thinking about it.

01:41:29.220 And I'm sure you agree, Megan.

01:41:30.600 I said there's no way they're going to let us do this, that something's going to happen.

01:41:34.780 Right.

01:41:35.200 And again, call it paranoia.

01:41:37.060 Call it just trying to be ahead of the curve.

01:41:40.680 And I'm sitting in the seat right here where I saw Trump got shot.

01:41:45.640 And like they tried to kill him and indict him.

01:41:49.260 And it's like at every turn, I'm like, here we go.

01:41:51.460 The regime is striking back.

01:41:52.860 Right.

01:41:53.740 And it's just you don't think you're actually going to get there because we've been programmed

01:41:59.540 to just say that like powerful people get what they want.

01:42:02.660 Right.

01:42:03.480 And it's yeah, he was one millimeter from this whole country just going into bedlam.

01:42:09.900 And what if one of these trials would have went differently?

01:42:12.800 Right.

01:42:13.120 What if Jack Smith would have rushed his cases?

01:42:16.280 And I mean, like a million different things.

01:42:18.280 Right.

01:42:19.100 And there you go.

01:42:20.380 And you hear the words that Donald Trump is president elect.

01:42:23.740 I just again, glory be to God is all I can say.

01:42:26.760 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:42:32.080 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:42:34.600 I just again, glory be to God is all I can say.

01:42:36.940 Thank you.

01:42:37.580 Thank you.

01:42:38.900 Thank you.

01:42:41.220 Thank you.

01:42:43.580 Thank you.

01:42:47.500 Thank you.

01:42:54.740 Bye.

01:42:55.420 Bye.

01:42:56.520 Bye.

01:42:58.880 Bye.

01:42:59.520 Bye.

01:43:00.240 Bye.

01:43:01.400 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 01, 2025

Tucker Carlson, Shawn Ryan, Bill Maher, Charlamagne, and More： Most Memorable Interviews From 2024

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