The Megyn Kelly Show - Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk and More - Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments

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00:01:00.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:13.120 Hey, everyone. It's Megyn Kelly, and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your friends and family.

00:01:18.700 Today, we are bringing you some of the most memorable moments from the Megyn Kelly live tour, which came to an end last week.

00:01:25.820 It was so great to see the tens of thousands of you across the country.

00:01:30.820 And now, we want to look back at some of what you may have missed.

00:01:34.260 We had Donald Trump Jr. kick us off on night one. That was amazing. In Texas, he was fired up and in rare form.

00:01:42.440 I spoke with Tucker Carlson in New York, followed by Ben Shapiro in Florida on back-to-back nights.

00:01:47.800 That made tons of news earlier this month.

00:01:50.080 We had so much fun with Piers Morgan in Miami and Link Lauren in Texas.

00:01:54.440 And, of course, it came to an end last weekend in a powerful interview with Erica Kirk in Arizona.

00:02:01.400 So go check out some of the memorable moments. Have a great weekend. Listen to it here.

00:02:06.000 And I will see you Monday with Mark Halperin.

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00:03:16.080 Before you go, you have to do your best Donald Trump.

00:03:18.780 We're going to have to do some Donald Trump, guys.

00:03:22.660 All right, let's talk about why we're here, right?

00:03:27.540 I mean, we were going to do this tour, we announced this tour two days before Charlie was killed, and then the question was raised by basically everybody, do we still do this tour?

00:03:37.000 And I know how I felt, and I know how you felt.

00:03:40.040 It's not exactly how my husband felt.

00:03:42.160 But we're here, and it's more important right now to be here than ever.

00:03:48.340 A hundred percent.

00:03:49.420 I mean, the best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to actually be out here, to doing this, to be unafraid, to not back down.

00:03:58.160 I think...

00:03:58.880 Yeah.

00:04:00.400 Thank you.

00:04:00.900 I know I was supposed to do something with him literally the week after that, and as you mentioned sort of in the intro, you know, I met Charlie, I think he was 19 or just turned 20, and it was 2015 at the beginning of that cycle, and a couple friends of mine actually from Texas were like, you know, you have to meet this guy, he's great, he's charismatic, and he knows everything about politics.

00:04:24.160 I'm like, wow, that sounds great, because no one here knows anything.

00:04:29.160 I've told you this before, but it was like, when they were like, you're colluding with Russia, I'm like, guys, if you knew what was going on in that campaign, like, we couldn't collude to order a cheeseburger, okay?

00:04:37.060 So, like, relax.

00:04:39.860 Slow your roll.

00:04:40.540 Relax, Adam Schiff, like, give me a break.

00:04:44.280 But, you know, they're going on and on about how great this guy is, and they're like, okay, well, he just turned 20.

00:04:50.300 I'm like, just, okay, enough.

00:04:52.720 Like, stop.

00:04:53.380 We're good.

00:04:54.160 If there's one thing we had no shortage of, it was guys that didn't know what the hell they were doing.

00:04:59.280 We didn't need someone else who also didn't know what the hell they were doing.

00:05:03.440 But these guys were persuasive, and I sat down, and in five minutes, I was like, oh.

00:05:09.800 Describe that Charlie versus the Charlie we knew before he was taken from us.

00:05:15.040 Honestly, it was the same.

00:05:16.100 You just knew it was a generational talent.

00:05:18.260 You know, I don't know much, but I think, you know, if there's one thing I've probably proven to be fairly,

00:05:24.160 really decent at in the last decade or so, it was sort of just understanding talent, and I recognized it in an instant.

00:05:30.380 I mean, it was literally five minutes.

00:05:31.840 I'm like, okay, interview's over.

00:05:33.480 Like, you're traveling with me.

00:05:35.740 And, you know, he spent the next, you know, six, seven months.

00:05:38.980 It was everything.

00:05:39.640 I mean, he'd be making calls.

00:05:42.140 I mean, I have great pictures of Election Day 16, and I think I did, it was close to like 75 radio interviews.

00:05:49.060 We were just sort of moving east to west.

00:05:50.600 As the polls were shutting down, I'm, you know, screaming at Sean Hannity, be like, just get me on in western Florida because there's a time difference there,

00:05:57.080 and I can still get a couple people to the polls because, you know, whatever wasn't showing up.

00:06:01.080 And, you know, Charlie was basically just in the background operating, you know, my Twitter and other social media handles from my desk in my office as I'm going through this.

00:06:09.960 And it was just such an amazing experience.

00:06:12.720 But, again, he perhaps got better, but he was always so good, he was just going to be better than everyone else anyway.

00:06:19.700 It didn't take much maturation.

00:06:22.540 He just always had it.

00:06:24.520 In the past couple of years, Don, you've been subpoenaed and investigated more than any human on earth.

00:06:31.500 So is your family.

00:06:32.900 So is your dad.

00:06:34.560 Your dad, they tried to throw him in prison, not to mention the impeachments and all the investigations.

00:06:39.580 And the civil lawsuits.

00:06:41.340 And then on top of that, they actually tried to kill him repeatedly.

00:06:45.660 Twice.

00:06:46.080 Yeah.

00:06:47.420 You saw your dad get shot in the ear.

00:06:49.820 You saw three of his supporters get shot, one of whom died, two others of whom got shot as well.

00:06:56.140 And then Charlie got shot and killed and taken from us.

00:06:58.920 This is your life over the past couple of years.

00:07:02.040 How has that changed you?

00:07:05.140 Honestly, it's hard.

00:07:06.140 I mean, there's an element, I guess, you know,

00:07:07.980 I got some of that Trump gene that it just makes you sort of go harder.

00:07:12.540 It's not normal.

00:07:13.520 It's not always.

00:07:14.020 It's not normal.

00:07:14.800 It's not normal.

00:07:15.440 It's not always good.

00:07:16.240 I have that for better or worse.

00:07:17.740 I think, you know, yeah, I've been more subpoenaed than probably just about any human being.

00:07:23.360 And our family certainly has.

00:07:24.860 I think I've done more hours of congressional testimony, you know, for treason, right?

00:07:30.100 I mean, you know, a crime punishable by death that became like my average Tuesday.

00:07:34.960 You know, it was like, oh, they're going to try to kill you again, Don.

00:07:37.940 I'm like, it's fine.

00:07:40.380 Can I catch lunch first?

00:07:42.960 Most of us are like, I got to get those Halloween decorations up.

00:07:45.760 It's coming.

00:07:46.580 I'm on deadline.

00:07:47.600 Yeah, no, it was my lawyer.

00:07:48.900 It's like, you're the greatest witness ever.

00:07:50.200 It's like, it's not because I'm actually good at it.

00:07:52.000 I've just done it so much.

00:07:53.220 Eventually, you're going to develop some sort of talent for it.

00:07:55.320 I mean, it's, you know, do you miss it a little, you know, not that so much.

00:08:02.820 No, but, you know, not that, but it, but it was interesting, right?

00:08:07.160 I think, you know, at the end of each one of these election cycles and now, you know,

00:08:11.980 you know, three presidential cycles and then, you know, six midterm cycles, we combine them

00:08:16.880 all or whatever it may have been.

00:08:18.960 There was a time sort of at the end of 16, especially, and at the end of 20, you're,

00:08:24.820 you're in the throes of it.

00:08:26.440 And I think it was October, 2020, I think I did 104 rallies that month.

00:08:33.060 So that's four a day.

00:08:34.220 And I don't mean like, you know, a lunch or a breakfast.

00:08:36.360 I mean like, you know, 300 to 10,000 people in a room, four times a day, 31 days straight.

00:08:44.200 And it's sort of brutal.

00:08:45.340 And at the end of it, you're like, I just sort of want to be done with it.

00:08:48.660 16, especially, right?

00:08:49.680 Because I got sucked out of like the world in which I lived, you know, real estate.

00:08:54.040 And I was, you know, behind a desk or on a job site.

00:08:56.740 And I was like, sort of want to go back to that.

00:09:00.000 And for about a week, it was great.

00:09:02.480 And you were non-controversial before all this too.

00:09:04.920 Yeah, no, I mean.

00:09:05.780 The Trumps were beloved.

00:09:06.680 Not the same level.

00:09:07.780 Yeah.

00:09:08.000 Before that, no, it was, it was awesome.

00:09:09.640 I could live in New York City.

00:09:10.580 I got invited to the cool person parties.

00:09:12.220 That all went away.

00:09:12.960 So, but no, honestly, but there was a component of that that was also cathartic, right?

00:09:19.400 It was, you know, that obligatory lunch you all do with some friend you haven't seen in

00:09:23.700 10 years, but you do it once every other year.

00:09:26.080 You go and you're like, why am I here?

00:09:28.240 You know, we don't really stay in touch.

00:09:29.520 And it's like, you'd see all these people and they'd text you like, I love what you're

00:09:34.060 doing.

00:09:34.360 And you're like, oh, wow, that's great.

00:09:35.160 And you're like, look on their Facebook pages and you're like, Trump's a terrorist.

00:09:38.500 He's a Nazi.

00:09:39.400 So I'm like, I hate these people so much.

00:09:41.580 So I'm like, well, which one is it?

00:09:43.220 Because you can't be my friend and also do that.

00:09:46.020 Like you can disagree with me politically.

00:09:47.720 I mean, I had friends that didn't agree with a lot of what we were doing, but they'd still

00:09:50.800 like, I'm writing a check to your campaign because I just believe in you.

00:09:53.860 And even if we don't agree on much politically, like you're still a friend.

00:09:56.520 And like, those guys are great.

00:09:58.280 Those guys were.

00:09:59.220 You can handle the honesty.

00:10:00.180 Yeah.

00:10:00.500 That, that I can deal with.

00:10:01.640 It was the guys like clout chasing on one side and then kissing your ass on the other.

00:10:06.520 That I didn't appreciate.

00:10:07.980 But do you, I wonder, because you talk about the gene, you've got the gene.

00:10:11.340 And it is a crazy gene.

00:10:12.460 It's a great gene.

00:10:13.760 And I really have been thinking about this a lot because I, now at this point in my life,

00:10:17.960 I think a lot about how do we handle trauma?

00:10:20.280 Like what's the best way of handling trauma?

00:10:22.100 And I really have come over to my husband's Presbyterian way of just shoving it down.

00:10:27.620 I really do believe, honestly, like leaning into your traumas and they call it ruminating

00:10:33.160 is very bad for you.

00:10:35.000 We've really, we were raised by Oprah and we were raised by wolves.

00:10:39.900 She misled us.

00:10:41.360 The Trump gene is the way.

00:10:43.540 Well, yes and no, right?

00:10:44.840 I was sort of getting there before and it, you know, I sort of ramble, but, um, you know,

00:10:50.160 you, you get there and it, it feels wrong, but you also then suppress all of it.

00:10:53.780 And it's just like, it doesn't matter.

00:10:55.540 Put it aside.

00:10:56.460 Go back and fight.

00:10:57.500 Doesn't matter.

00:10:58.240 Put it aside.

00:10:58.980 Go fight.

00:10:59.500 Like literally in your dad's case, in the moment where the bullets are still flying.

00:11:03.040 Correct.

00:11:03.360 And, you know, we all sort of did that to some extent, him more than anyone, but then

00:11:07.480 you go back and you're, you know, I have five young kids, you know, and kids, you know,

00:11:11.400 they have some sort of problem.

00:11:12.500 I'm like, well, they're literally trying to jail me.

00:11:14.680 They're trying to shut down our businesses.

00:11:16.040 They just tried to kill grandpa.

00:11:17.200 Like, you know, it's just, you know, whatever they're going through is still a big thing

00:11:21.900 for them, but you can't even think of it as a big thing.

00:11:24.240 Cause it's like, give me a break.

00:11:24.960 It's nothing, but it, but it's big for them.

00:11:26.460 And so, uh, you, you definitely put a lot of that sort of emotion aside.

00:11:30.420 It's like, you've just been a beast in a cage prodded for a while that you'd sort of

00:11:33.680 adjust to that normalcy, but it makes it actually very hard to be sensitive to other

00:11:38.480 people's ideas and emotions of that movie free solo.

00:11:41.760 Did you see the movie free solo?

00:11:42.980 A hundred percent.

00:11:43.520 Were the, you guys see this aside on an airplane once where the guy, I used to do a little

00:11:46.620 bit of free class.

00:11:47.180 So yeah, I have that underdeveloped sense of self-preservation and pretty much, I'm a

00:11:50.240 pilot.

00:11:50.720 I do the trimix diving.

00:11:51.820 So this guy's like climbing mountains, like the most dangerous mountainsides in the world

00:11:55.060 without any suspension, without any rope whatsoever.

00:11:58.580 And it's extremely dangerous.

00:11:59.940 And they talk in the, in that film about how you can kind of burn out your adrenal gland

00:12:03.960 and that's not necessarily a good thing.

00:12:06.360 Or it's already underdeveloped.

00:12:07.660 So it takes that much more stimulus to actually get any sort of excitement out of life.

00:12:11.400 And that's what it was like.

00:12:12.400 So like after 16, you know, you, you, you work so hard, you, you sort of become like

00:12:16.260 I mean, there's something cool about being pseudo rock star, right?

00:12:19.980 You're on a stage and people are loving it.

00:12:21.680 And you sort of feel like, wow, I'm actually decent at this.

00:12:23.400 This is kind of cool.

00:12:24.740 So, but you get like, I got to go back to my regular life.

00:12:27.540 I'm so over this.

00:12:28.300 And like two weeks back at a desk and I was like, yeah, no, this isn't going to work

00:12:31.860 for me anymore.

00:12:32.580 No, no, I was, I was, no, no, like, like borderline depressed.

00:12:35.440 Like I was like, this, this sucks.

00:12:37.220 Like I literally just remade my whole life after that and got, stayed more involved in this

00:12:42.220 and just, uh, it was sort of game changing.

00:12:44.780 So what I thought was sort of like going to be my destiny for, you know, the rest of

00:12:49.780 my career, it was like, yeah, no, that's not going to work.

00:12:52.700 Like I literally would not be able to be satisfied sitting at a desk and doing that forever anymore.

00:12:56.300 And so it changed everything.

00:12:57.600 Well, that leads me to my next line of inquiry, which is, is any Trump going to be running

00:13:02.740 for office at any point soon?

00:13:07.420 You know, this is always the trick question, right?

00:13:10.460 Because if you say no, then you decide to do something at another stage in life.

00:13:13.580 I appreciate the applause.

00:13:15.080 And, you know, someone said, you know, a bunch of friends sent me a poll last week.

00:13:19.620 It's, you know, JD and I are the only guys in double digits.

00:13:21.840 I'm like, I haven't really been, you know, out there all that much for it.

00:13:25.080 But you're the heir.

00:13:26.220 But still, well, you know, who knows?

00:13:29.060 You know, honestly, the heir is whoever deserves it, really.

00:13:31.000 You know what I mean?

00:13:31.320 There's not an heir.

00:13:32.020 Contrary to what we've seen, this isn't a monarchy, right?

00:13:35.220 Like, I know, I know they like doing the whole no kings thing and dressing up like, you know,

00:13:41.920 Bozo the Clown.

00:13:42.880 And I think that's supposed to be effective.

00:13:44.420 I don't know.

00:13:44.880 It doesn't seem to move the needle much for me.

00:13:47.200 But, you know, it also is sort of ironic that they're talking about not having kings with a president that was elected in a landslide, won the electoral college, won the popular vote, won all seven swing states in a historic fashion, before that actually left office.

00:14:10.520 I mean, you know, if you're, he's like a really shitty king, actually.

00:14:13.560 I mean, if he's a king, he's doing a lousy job.

00:14:16.980 Because a king wouldn't have done that.

00:14:19.620 A king wouldn't have allowed himself to be prosecuted and persecuted and almost jailed, almost assassinated.

00:14:26.700 A king probably wouldn't allow those protests to happen.

00:14:30.080 And if he was a king, the government would be open and not shut down by Democrats who want to make sure that we're funding health care for illegals.

00:14:35.940 That's right.

00:14:36.320 But, you know, the narrative, as we all know, the narrative doesn't always have to line up with reality.

00:14:44.940 Was that a long way of saying no?

00:14:49.040 You have to see.

00:14:51.100 You know.

00:14:52.080 So not never.

00:14:53.560 No, not now.

00:14:57.160 Not now, but not never.

00:14:58.160 There may be a time.

00:14:59.140 And if it's required of me and I can do that for my country, it's an honor.

00:15:01.720 The fact that I have this kind of reaction is.

00:15:06.320 Thank you.

00:15:10.980 Listen, just that kind of reaction, like that sort of, I mean, that's the greatest honor I could receive, right?

00:15:16.760 So it means a lot to me.

00:15:18.380 And I see that.

00:15:19.700 And it's, I don't know that I have the ego, actually, which is ironic.

00:15:23.440 I understand.

00:15:23.920 Coming from a top.

00:15:25.420 You'll get there.

00:15:26.200 But there is like a level of hubris you actually need to be president.

00:15:28.760 I think that I'm like, I don't know.

00:15:29.740 You'll get there.

00:15:29.940 I'm a regular guy.

00:15:30.540 I fight to get where we want to go.

00:15:31.820 But after that, I'm okay going in the background.

00:15:33.620 But what was so great about the last four years under Biden was it's actually what we needed as a country for everyone to understand how fragile our democracy is, how fragile the republic really is, how fragile even our economy is, and how the world really needs a strong America.

00:15:58.320 And so it wasn't just the first four years of Trump that showed us that.

00:16:01.980 It was how quickly it all disappeared and went away that woke up so many people.

00:16:06.480 But in that, there was a sort of component of trial by fire, not just for the American people who got it and experienced it because you saw it with your own eyes every day, but for those in the cabinet now, for those who were able to be fighters and were subject to the same lawfare and whatever.

00:16:27.660 So now we actually, for the first time in modern history, we have a bench.

00:16:33.360 We have a bench of guys that can do this.

00:16:35.300 And if I'm part of that, that's an honor.

00:16:36.680 But it's not like, you know, even in, you know, after the first term, you're like, well, man, who's next?

00:16:44.800 You know, it wasn't going to be Mike Pence.

00:16:47.040 Mike Pence was perhaps like a necessary thing to sort of consolidate other parts of the Republican base that are like, well, this guy from New York, how do we make this happen?

00:16:56.540 How does, you know, perhaps I don't want to say necessary evil, but like you sort of needed.

00:17:01.380 No, he made sense at the time.

00:17:02.440 It made sense at the time, but it was never going to be the future of the party, right?

00:17:05.640 Like, that was never real.

00:17:08.940 And, you know, now it's great to be like, to see a JD and to see, honestly, you know, Marco's done a great job.

00:17:14.860 He's a star.

00:17:15.360 Marco's a star, too.

00:17:16.200 And more importantly, they're guys that aren't just sort of playing a role on TV.

00:17:23.860 They've actually changed their worldview to understand that sort of America first, MAGA, however you want to look at it, is actually the future of the Republican Party.

00:17:32.940 They're not guys that are dying to go back to the old ways and playing a role.

00:17:36.440 They actually believe it.

00:17:37.700 They get it now.

00:17:38.980 And that's incredible for the future of our country.

00:17:41.180 Okay, now, since you and your dad are very similar in many ways, what, and you're talking about how you were bored sitting at your desk for two weeks, what does Donald Trump post-presidency do with his time?

00:17:55.240 Oh, God.

00:17:57.660 I don't know, Megan.

00:18:01.940 Yeah, no, you know, it's an interesting one.

00:18:04.820 It's like, this was always during the campaign.

00:18:06.640 It's like, you know, are we working him too hard?

00:18:09.400 And it's like, no, no, no, keep him going, because there's nothing sometimes more scary to us that we're having, you know, perhaps clean up some messes, you know, getting the call at, like, 5 o'clock in the morning, like, did you see the tweet that went out three hours ago?

00:18:23.340 Like, no, what happened?

00:18:26.240 Don't worry, you're on CNN in a couple hours.

00:18:28.360 What are the talking points?

00:18:29.240 It's like, honestly, we don't know.

00:18:30.760 Figure it out.

00:18:31.900 You know, the scariest Donald Trump is a poor Donald Trump.

00:18:35.100 So we...

00:18:35.400 Real.

00:18:37.400 Real.

00:18:38.520 I got to figure out...

00:18:39.760 We all have to figure out how to keep him busy, but...

00:18:43.280 He could pull the Obama, not leave Washington, and be the shadow president for the next day.

00:18:48.260 You know, that would be fun.

00:18:51.800 Listen, I think one way or the other, he's always going to keep busy.

00:18:55.040 I mean, you know, you even see the passion of what he has now as he's, you know, doing additions to the White House.

00:19:00.100 I mean, he's always going to be a builder at heart.

00:19:01.760 And I think because he's a builder, it's why he understands how to do these things.

00:19:05.440 It's also why he's so able to relate to regular people.

00:19:09.600 You know, he still always sort of defaults back to his roots of being a builder, someone who creates.

00:19:15.080 And so, you know, I imagine he'll always remain politically active because he, too, likes the action.

00:19:19.980 And the party likes him.

00:19:21.920 They don't want him to go.

00:19:22.700 Yeah.

00:19:22.900 So it's like, they're going to want him around.

00:19:24.680 He's remade that party, and he's always going to have an incredible influence there.

00:19:28.100 And so it'll be interesting to watch, though.

00:19:31.360 Yes.

00:19:31.620 But we've got to keep him busy one way or the other.

00:19:33.660 Yes.

00:19:34.120 I'm going to actually take up golf despite all the things that I don't want to do.

00:19:37.820 I just got to go play golf with him because if he's alone and bored, it's going to be problems.

00:19:42.580 Get him away from the true social.

00:19:47.240 Let's talk about the lawfare that's happening now.

00:19:50.420 What happened to your dad was deeply wrong.

00:19:52.480 It was immoral.

00:19:53.240 It was criminal.

00:19:54.660 It really was criminal what was done to him.

00:19:57.180 And you guys saw that, you know, now, before Trump took office, he filed a couple of complaints

00:20:02.460 with the DOJ seeking to be made whole on all the money he had to spend to defend himself.

00:20:09.940 And the media has gone nuts with it.

00:20:11.400 Oh, my God.

00:20:11.900 It's conflict of interest.

00:20:12.700 How could he?

00:20:13.140 How could he?

00:20:13.860 Do you know, if you listen to AM Update, you do know this, do you know how much those losers

00:20:18.560 Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, those two FBI lovers who were tweeting,

00:20:23.240 you know how much they got from the DOJ?

00:20:25.740 $2 million.

00:20:28.720 For perjuring themselves and setting up a president.

00:20:33.960 For plotting actively against him.

00:20:36.100 So they filed a complaint because they were mad their tweets got released.

00:20:38.720 And Merrick Garland's DOJ paid out.

00:20:40.440 So why shouldn't Trump file a complaint and get paid out for all of his heartache?

00:20:45.220 But I'm just speaking of the lawfare and how widespread it was and how bit by bit your dad's

00:20:50.120 trying to make good.

00:20:51.580 The lawfare that is being unleashed against his enemies, we've had lots of debates about it.

00:20:56.320 I'm totally in favor of it because I really think they deserve it.

00:20:58.960 It's accountability to me.

00:21:00.340 But what's your reaction?

00:21:02.200 Because the argument against it by smart people is two wrongs don't make a right and it's not

00:21:07.780 going to stop them.

00:21:08.740 You know, when they get back in power, they're going to do it again.

00:21:13.200 It's actually a nuanced sort of answer because like, you know, I guess the normal Don Jr.

00:21:16.900 response would be like, just go after him.

00:21:18.500 But these guys did break the law.

00:21:21.760 They actually did.

00:21:22.520 There's a difference between what they did to my father, where they're literally going back and

00:21:27.860 literally changing the statute of limitations for a short period of time to be able to try to get

00:21:34.500 him when they're venue shopping.

00:21:36.860 You notice he was only sued in Atlanta, New York, D.C.

00:21:41.320 You know, there's a difference between creating a thing, you know, the steel dossier.

00:21:47.200 Making it up.

00:21:47.640 When it's manufactured to end a result, that's different than John Bolton taking home classified

00:21:56.120 documents and breaking the law and doing that.

00:21:58.380 That's not lawfare.

00:21:59.460 That's actually called enforcing the law.

00:22:02.200 So there's two different things.

00:22:04.120 Now, the corollary to all of that is, generally speaking, there's no one weaker than a Republican

00:22:13.680 in Washington, D.C.

00:22:16.020 No, no, no.

00:22:16.540 You've seen it.

00:22:17.980 You know, you can be the most diehard red meat guy and you get to Washington, D.C.

00:22:23.400 and all of a sudden you're like, wow, I love the perks.

00:22:25.720 I love getting my ass kissed.

00:22:27.280 I love being invited to the cool person party.

00:22:30.420 You know what?

00:22:31.760 They leave me alone if I'm like 85 percent Republican.

00:22:36.760 If I fold when it actually matters to my constituents but can be beneficial to the Democrats, you have

00:22:45.180 an easy existence.

00:22:46.600 The Washington Post isn't doing their hit pieces.

00:22:48.880 I look at those hit pieces in the badge of honor.

00:22:50.600 Chief Justice John Roberts comes to mind.

00:22:52.020 Yeah.

00:22:52.360 Well, no, of course.

00:22:53.220 Robert.

00:22:53.600 But by the way, you know, how many strong Republican senators do we have?

00:22:57.480 Like three?

00:22:58.020 You know, that you'd actually want to be in one of these political fights with?

00:23:01.400 I mean, it's pretty plentiful.

00:23:04.580 And so there's a component of me that believes I'd love none of this to ever happen.

00:23:09.880 I'd love it to actually be fair.

00:23:12.600 That's not ever been the case.

00:23:14.740 And until we actually start fighting the same way the Democrats do, it's never going to

00:23:19.140 stop because they're more than happy to take their wins.

00:23:22.200 You know, they talk about democracy.

00:23:23.600 It's all a soundbite.

00:23:25.620 You know, they talk about all these things.

00:23:27.280 They're so great.

00:23:27.640 Until it happens to them, and it's like, well, this is different.

00:23:30.140 You know, rules for thee, but not for me.

00:23:32.220 Unprecedented.

00:23:32.580 They actually keep using that word as people get indicted on the left.

00:23:36.540 This is unprecedented.

00:23:37.260 Unprecedented.

00:23:37.620 And I'm like, what were you doing to me, to my father, to half the Republican Party?

00:23:42.020 You know, what did you do to Peter Navarro?

00:23:43.660 What did you do to Steve Bannon?

00:23:45.240 You know, that was unprecedented.

00:23:47.340 Roger Stone.

00:23:48.320 Roger Stone.

00:23:48.860 Now that it's happening back to them, it's unprecedented all of a sudden.

00:23:53.060 You know, they can get away with that.

00:23:54.460 And they've gotten away with it because they also control still the mainstream media narrative.

00:23:58.840 They control a vast majority of tech.

00:24:02.060 You know, I think what Elon's done is great to at least people can finally see like, oh, wait a minute.

00:24:06.700 And it's not actually unprecedented, but it's hard to believe there are people that see that and they're like, oh, my God, it's unprecedented.

00:24:13.260 Like, did you, like, not turn on a TV for a solid eight years?

00:24:17.660 You've been asleep.

00:24:18.200 Like, eight years when, you know, Trump, what, 96 indictments?

00:24:22.880 They wanted to put my father away for 750 years?

00:24:25.960 I mean, he's a young and vibrant 79.

00:24:30.280 But I think even for a high-energy guy like Donald Trump, like, 750 years, maybe a lot.

00:24:39.360 I'm not sure he gets through that.

00:24:40.980 By the way, does he sleep?

00:24:42.240 Because you hear the reporters on Border Air Force One, like, you can't fall asleep because he might come back at any second.

00:24:47.080 He's constantly, like, talking to his cabinet officials.

00:24:49.060 And, like, you don't want to be the reporter who's asleep when he comes back for the fourth time and you miss the big scoop.

00:24:54.440 Honestly, like, I've rarely seen him sleep.

00:24:58.520 If he does, it is like three hours a night.

00:25:02.000 But it's been his whole life.

00:25:04.020 It's like, so I remember, you know, coming out of, you know, the Wharton School of Finance and starting to work in the business and stuff like that.

00:25:10.520 And, you know, young 20-year-old guy in New York City, I'd go out and I'd be partying with my buddies.

00:25:15.960 I'd probably get home at...

00:25:17.960 Twelve.

00:25:20.280 Like, 10.30.

00:25:23.100 10.30.

00:25:24.240 Let's just say that for...

00:25:26.960 And Saturday morning, my phone would ring.

00:25:31.040 You know, Don, why aren't you in the office?

00:25:34.820 I'm like, why aren't you in the office?

00:25:38.040 He's like, I'm in the office.

00:25:39.560 That's why I know you're not in it, Don.

00:25:42.080 I'm like, shit.

00:25:43.340 Nightmare.

00:25:44.020 I'm like, I'm stumbling over their hairs everywhere.

00:25:46.480 I'm hungover as hell.

00:25:47.460 And I'm like, we're going to get to the office.

00:25:50.140 And on a Saturday, sometimes Sunday.

00:25:53.200 He's just built this way.

00:25:54.140 He's just always been that way.

00:25:55.980 I mean, perhaps the most...

00:25:57.980 I've sort of been impressed with his stamina that way for most of my life.

00:26:02.600 But I mean, even, you know, this last election, the days prior to the election, I mean, I

00:26:07.480 saw him go two all-nighters in a row.

00:26:10.560 Yeah.

00:26:10.840 Like, it was all day, seven events.

00:26:13.480 And I'd speak at some of them.

00:26:14.860 But when he's there, he's speaking for an hour.

00:26:17.420 Yes.

00:26:17.940 I mean, it's slated for an hour.

00:26:19.500 And sometimes it ends up being two and a half.

00:26:21.980 The weave.

00:26:22.440 But, you know, you got six of them.

00:26:24.400 You know, and we're in Michigan, and it's 2.30 in the morning.

00:26:30.000 And that's 3.30.

00:26:31.440 By the time you dealt with the time difference or wherever we end up, I think it was Michigan

00:26:34.200 was the last one.

00:26:35.460 And he's still going strong.

00:26:37.640 He had six of these speeches, five of these speeches for two hours apiece.

00:26:41.300 It's 2.30 in the morning.

00:26:42.040 He's going strong.

00:26:42.440 He gets on the plane, and he starts playing music.

00:26:46.180 And I'm like, I just want to go to bed.

00:26:47.960 And I literally, for the love of Christ, please just turn off the music.

00:26:51.640 And he's blasting Elton John.

00:26:54.940 It's wild.

00:26:56.100 And then we get there, and it's election day.

00:26:58.240 And I get home.

00:26:59.920 It's 6 a.m.

00:27:02.280 I try to get, like, an hour or two.

00:27:04.420 I get home.

00:27:05.280 I take a shower.

00:27:06.160 I'm about to go to bed.

00:27:07.160 And I turn on the TV quickly.

00:27:09.020 And he's doing interviews.

00:27:10.000 I'm like, no, I felt like I'm not, like, living up to, you know, this day.

00:27:17.960 I literally had, like, two hours till my next thing.

00:27:20.440 I'm like, I just can't go to bed because I can't let this guy outdo me.

00:27:24.260 Let's talk about it.

00:27:25.200 Let's talk about why Nick Fuentes.

00:27:27.900 I interviewed Fuentes.

00:27:29.840 Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in

00:27:36.520 an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes, like, three weeks ago.

00:27:41.080 It mostly wasn't public, but Fuentes was attacking my father, a subject I have, like, literally

00:27:48.460 no sense of humor.

00:27:49.300 My father passed in March and, you know, was really kind of the patriarch, not kind of,

00:27:55.380 he was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family.

00:27:58.740 And, you know, some of what Fuentes was saying about my dad was, you know, true, okay, which

00:28:03.160 made it worse.

00:28:03.660 But I was just so offended by that.

00:28:06.900 I couldn't deal with it.

00:28:08.440 And my son and my wife.

00:28:11.640 So, you know, I was really mad at Fuentes.

00:28:13.840 And then I did an interview and just out of the way, I was so mad at it, like, popped

00:28:17.200 out and I attacked Nick Fuentes in this interview.

00:28:20.980 This was last month, I think, ish.

00:28:23.700 And then I got all these calls from people saying, do you know anything about, I don't

00:28:27.680 know anything really about Nick Fuentes other than he's attacking my dad, my wife, and

00:28:30.960 my son, and it was like, actually, Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator

00:28:36.540 among young men.

00:28:38.640 Like, period.

00:28:39.180 He's got five million subscribers on Rumble.

00:28:41.020 It's bonkers.

00:28:42.180 And I didn't know any of them.

00:28:43.080 I mean, I'm 56, so I'll just, like, state the obvious, you know?

00:28:46.800 He's not our demo.

00:28:47.620 My oldest child is 31, like, much older than Nick Fuentes.

00:28:50.380 So I kind of missed a lot of this stuff.

00:28:52.580 I pride myself on not missing things.

00:28:53.880 I totally missed that.

00:28:55.540 Really?

00:28:56.380 And then it turns out that, you know, he has no advertisers.

00:28:59.180 They've been trying to cancel him since freshman year in college.

00:29:02.220 Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut him down freshman year in college.

00:29:05.440 And it didn't work.

00:29:06.700 In fact, it had the opposite effect.

00:29:08.020 So I was like, hmm.

00:29:09.540 And so I talked to a million people I know, like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes

00:29:12.960 to hear, like, what is this, actually?

00:29:16.900 And so I decided to do it.

00:29:19.260 And I thought it would be controversial.

00:29:21.360 I didn't think it would become what it's become.

00:29:23.760 I'm not going to offer any defense other than, you know, it's kind of interesting.

00:29:28.640 I've literally, I mean, I've interviewed anybody.

00:29:30.320 I've been doing this for 34 years.

00:29:31.980 So I've interviewed everybody, most of them bad people, to be honest.

00:29:35.660 I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil War, all cannibals, every

00:29:42.700 single one of them.

00:29:43.420 It tasted human flesh.

00:29:45.120 And first of all, I kind of like them.

00:29:46.340 I'm just being honest, because I like people.

00:29:48.240 Don't agree with cannibalism.

00:29:49.920 Pretty opposed.

00:29:51.140 For the record.

00:29:51.640 But I'm just that way.

00:29:52.700 I just like people in the closer.

00:29:54.020 If you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, like, it's hard to not see the human

00:29:57.300 in the person, even if he's a cannibal.

00:29:58.740 Did the Liberian cannibal smell good?

00:30:01.300 Kind of rank, to be honest.

00:30:02.960 Actually, during the interview, this is, I'll never forget this.

00:30:06.340 I was in Africa for, to cover the Civil War, and I'm interviewing this guy, and he was

00:30:10.440 like, you know, commander butt naked, or it wasn't actually commander butt naked, who

00:30:14.440 was a famous militia leader during that war, who fought, needless to say, butt naked.

00:30:17.880 But I'm interviewing this guy, and his cell phone goes off, and it's the Woody Woodpecker

00:30:22.440 theme song.

00:30:23.880 Da-da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da-da, and I was like, oh my gosh, you're human.

00:30:27.220 It was, like, hilarious.

00:30:28.100 Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial.

00:30:31.200 Like, I interview people who are hated, and in some cases, like, demonstrably evil, and I

00:30:35.940 ask them, why did you do that?

00:30:37.200 And what, you know, what's your account of yourself?

00:30:39.580 Like, tell me who you are.

00:30:40.340 What do you believe?

00:30:41.140 And I wanted to, that was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Fuentes, like,

00:30:45.160 what is this?

00:30:46.160 Tell me.

00:30:47.440 You know, I'll give you two hours.

00:30:48.940 I have only watched your clips for, like, a minute long.

00:30:51.220 I want to hear, like, why don't you describe what you think?

00:30:53.440 Because I think that's the small role that I play, which is to get documentary evidence

00:30:58.860 of people describing what they think.

00:31:00.060 I did it with Putin.

00:31:01.160 I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world, because I'm interested.

00:31:05.160 Not because I agree with him, because I think it's interesting.

00:31:06.720 And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nick Fuentes, and it's this, and

00:31:12.080 I said it, which is, I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country

00:31:16.080 from Belgium to Congo to Israel, because they're foreign countries.

00:31:20.560 Yes.

00:31:21.160 And I'll never give up that right.

00:31:23.940 In fact, it's an obligation, I would say, and to be reasonable about it, and not, you

00:31:27.820 know, but what's in America's interest?

00:31:29.740 Totally legitimate.

00:31:30.640 It is totally illegitimate, and very specifically, unchristian to attack people.

00:31:37.600 For their DNA.

00:31:39.040 Like, I hate this group.

00:31:40.580 You wanted him to hear that.

00:31:42.160 He has, we all have to hear that.

00:31:44.440 And because that is the basis of Western civilization.

00:31:49.040 Western civilization is derived from the New Testament.

00:31:52.540 It is based on Christian ethics, and the core difference between the West and the rest

00:31:56.440 of the world, not just Israel, but every other country, is that we don't believe in

00:32:01.220 collective punishment because we don't believe in blood guilt.

00:32:03.780 We don't believe that you were born guilty, and we also don't believe that you were born

00:32:07.200 virtuous.

00:32:08.260 We believe that God created every person as an individual.

00:32:11.020 God did not create communities.

00:32:13.740 Every woman gives birth to a human being, and every person has the spark of God inside

00:32:17.720 him.

00:32:18.600 I mean, that's what we believe as Christians.

00:32:20.020 And every person has the possibility of redemption.

00:32:23.100 And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form.

00:32:29.440 But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of

00:32:33.840 Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians.

00:32:37.220 He was murdering Christians.

00:32:39.380 He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament.

00:32:42.340 But he was on the way to go murder more Christians, that he met Jesus, and then he became the great

00:32:46.720 evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament.

00:32:49.740 So he's my personal hero, but he's also living testament to the truth about people, which

00:32:55.760 is each one of us was born as an individual, and we will face God alone at the end to account

00:33:01.380 for our lives.

00:33:02.260 And along the way, there is always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you

00:33:06.280 look like, or what your religion is, that you can change, and that you can be saved by

00:33:12.280 Jesus.

00:33:12.760 That is Christianity in three sentences.

00:33:15.880 And so that is reflected, even for people who aren't Christians, that is reflected in

00:33:21.740 an ethical framework and a legal code that is the only truly unusual and great thing about

00:33:27.960 the West, which is we do not punish the innocent.

00:33:32.100 We only punish the guilty.

00:33:33.880 We do not, you commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail.

00:33:38.240 We don't execute your cousins.

00:33:40.040 We don't commit genocide against your whole tribe.

00:33:43.040 We punish you because you did it.

00:33:45.440 We treat each person as an individual.

00:33:47.680 That is Western civilization, and that's a Christian understanding.

00:33:50.940 It does not derive from any other religion.

00:33:53.220 Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim, and that's the base of our justice system,

00:33:59.240 which, again, even non-Christians appreciate, that's why they move here, because it's self-evidently

00:34:03.620 more humane.

00:34:04.420 That's where the idea of human rights come from.

00:34:06.180 They're not collective rights.

00:34:07.620 It's not that your tribe has rights and his tribe does, and it's you as an individual have

00:34:10.640 rights.

00:34:11.640 And that idea is not only being challenged in our country, it's being disregarded.

00:34:20.460 It's disregarded in DEI.

00:34:22.100 It's disregarded in affirmative action.

00:34:24.240 Identity politics is a refutation of that idea.

00:34:26.640 We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for

00:34:30.740 the same reason.

00:34:31.600 That is anti-Western.

00:34:33.220 It's evil.

00:34:34.140 And it leads, in the end, inexorably to genocide.

00:34:40.600 That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s under the Nazis.

00:34:46.580 It's the root idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994.

00:34:50.140 It's the root idea, just saying, behind what's happening in Gaza right now, where it's like,

00:34:55.460 we're going to kill the kids, too.

00:34:56.480 We don't care.

00:34:57.680 And we're going to, by the way, move everyone out because they're a people that is fundamentally

00:35:02.520 opposed to us.

00:35:04.440 Yeah, well, I'm not for that.

00:35:05.840 Sorry, because that's not the Western understanding of justice.

00:35:08.660 We punish the guilty alone.

00:35:10.580 We do not punish the innocent.

00:35:12.520 Period.

00:35:12.920 And that's not racism.

00:35:16.320 And in fact, it's the answer to racism.

00:35:19.240 It's the answer to anti-Semitism.

00:35:21.020 It's why anti-Semitism is wrong.

00:35:23.320 It's why racism is wrong.

00:35:25.220 No, you're not better than me.

00:35:27.600 No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born.

00:35:30.320 You're the same as me because we were both created by God.

00:35:33.660 Period.

00:35:34.800 So the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes, any tribe, including my tribe,

00:35:42.020 is prima facie immoral.

00:35:44.700 And yet, it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics.

00:35:49.520 And I reject it.

00:35:50.420 I reject it when it manifests as anti-Semitism.

00:35:52.560 I reject it when it manifests as anti-white racism, which has been pretty common.

00:35:56.840 I know we're not supposed to say it, but it's real.

00:35:58.740 But I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are.

00:36:02.140 I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral.

00:36:04.800 It's anti-Christian.

00:36:06.000 And that is the destruction of the West.

00:36:08.180 And so when I see these people, we're defending Western.

00:36:09.860 When Mark Levin's like, we're defending Western civilization.

00:36:12.260 Or Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're

00:36:15.560 Palestinians so we can defend Western civilization.

00:36:18.240 I'm like, no, no, no.

00:36:19.260 You're the enemy of Western civilization because collective punishment is the enemy of Western

00:36:24.920 civilization.

00:36:26.000 Period.

00:36:27.460 Wow.

00:36:29.340 That's what I wanted to say.

00:36:30.800 And I said it.

00:36:31.720 And they called me a Nazi.

00:36:32.980 And I'm like, actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason.

00:36:37.500 But wait, what I hear you saying, sort of, is that you wanted to reach him.

00:36:43.360 You wanted him.

00:36:44.100 Of course I want to.

00:36:44.740 I want to reach him and everyone watching.

00:36:46.360 But were you trying to help him in a way?

00:36:50.000 I want to tell the truth as I understand it with the ever-present knowledge that I'm kind

00:36:55.460 of a buffoon and I'm often wrong.

00:36:57.020 I supported the Iraq War.

00:36:58.340 I remind myself of that every single day.

00:37:00.900 I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors and judgments.

00:37:03.900 I've been carried away by enthusiasm and particularly by anger.

00:37:06.480 However, many times in my life.

00:37:08.280 So with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay?

00:37:12.640 You always have to remember that because I'm not God.

00:37:15.100 I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can in every venue, in

00:37:19.880 every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can.

00:37:23.800 And that's why Nazi Week doesn't bother me anymore because I'm not a Nazi.

00:37:27.300 I'm a Christian.

00:37:28.220 Of course.

00:37:28.620 So what about, I don't want to spend the whole time on this, but I am curious.

00:37:34.560 The main criticism, as I understand it, has been, well, yes, platforming.

00:37:38.040 They say that.

00:37:38.540 I don't accept platforming as a valid objection.

00:37:41.360 What is that, a verb?

00:37:42.100 By the way, you take a noun and you make it into a verb and nobody says anything?

00:37:46.060 As a former editor, I say no.

00:37:47.680 Yeah, I agree.

00:37:48.840 Honestly, but like, as far as I know, Nick Fuentes hasn't eaten anyone.

00:37:52.520 You know?

00:37:52.660 I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people and he was platformed by Diane Sawyer.

00:37:56.540 We have a member, a sitting member of Congress.

00:37:58.480 I spoke to the Speaker of the House about this today.

00:38:00.240 We have a sitting member of Congress from Florida called Randy Fine who was literally

00:38:04.660 texted or put on Twitter, we should kill them all.

00:38:08.080 Every single one.

00:38:09.380 Someone texted a picture of literally of a dead baby and he laughs at it.

00:38:13.180 And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military

00:38:16.840 committing genocide and that's cool?

00:38:19.560 It's not cool.

00:38:20.580 No.

00:38:20.720 And let's just be honest.

00:38:22.660 That is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said.

00:38:27.840 Period.

00:38:29.640 So the main pushback has been when you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan,

00:38:34.720 et cetera, these journalists went after them, like exposed the terrible things.

00:38:38.840 And Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things.

00:38:43.280 Big time.

00:38:43.840 Including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all, in my opinion.

00:38:46.560 Yeah.

00:38:46.760 I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust,

00:38:49.820 likening it to baking cookies in the oven and there's no way you could have gotten to six

00:38:55.100 million, seems to be his theory.

00:38:56.540 He seems to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.

00:39:01.660 He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms.

00:39:06.220 So what do you say to those people?

00:39:08.840 Why didn't you raise any of that?

00:39:11.080 You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it.

00:39:14.220 You're not my editor.

00:39:15.580 Buzz off.

00:39:16.560 I mean, I don't know.

00:39:17.360 You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes?

00:39:18.560 I'll give you a cell.

00:39:19.260 Call him.

00:39:19.620 And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever.

00:39:22.840 That's up to you.

00:39:23.520 I got the same thing with Putin.

00:39:24.440 Why aren't you yelling at him?

00:39:26.000 Okay.

00:39:26.560 Why?

00:39:27.120 So I can show that I'm a good person?

00:39:29.100 I care about what my wife thinks, my children think, and God thinks.

00:39:32.420 And that's it.

00:39:33.120 I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you.

00:39:36.240 You may think I'm a terrible person.

00:39:37.720 Okay.

00:39:38.160 I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand what people think.

00:39:43.120 And I'm committed to that.

00:39:45.520 And if you don't like it, don't watch.

00:39:46.860 That's my view.

00:39:47.480 But that doesn't mean that I share the views.

00:39:49.360 I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes.

00:39:53.200 I mean, please.

00:39:54.900 And I don't, you know, I'm not telling them even in private because I'm not into that at all.

00:39:58.780 But I will say, just since you brought it up, one thing that did bother me was the Usha Vance thing.

00:40:04.780 And I did actually, I generally make it a practice not to be like, you said this and da-da-da-da-da,

00:40:10.300 and the internet tells me or, you know, the ADL says you said this.

00:40:13.400 It's like, why don't you just tell me what you do think?

00:40:15.740 Like, why don't you speak for yourself?

00:40:17.480 Because we're adults.

00:40:18.720 That is my approach with everybody, whether I like him or don't like him.

00:40:22.700 But the Usha Vance thing did upset me because I know Usha Vance, and I love Usha Vance.

00:40:26.780 And I was really offended by that, just personally because I know her, right, in a normal way.

00:40:32.680 And I did think about that.

00:40:34.040 Like, that pissed me off.

00:40:35.800 And I'm just being as honest as I can be.

00:40:38.920 I didn't want to repeat it.

00:40:40.380 Yeah.

00:40:40.640 No, you're always in that position.

00:40:41.780 Actually, you know.

00:40:42.220 As a journalist, you're always there, like, do I repeat it?

00:40:44.200 Well, if you know the person.

00:40:45.100 And spread it?

00:40:46.580 Well, kind of.

00:40:47.340 And it's, like, so wounding.

00:40:49.000 And I mean, he attacked my wife, as I said.

00:40:51.520 So I don't, I don't know.

00:40:54.260 I'm sensitive on that.

00:40:55.280 So let me ask you this.

00:40:55.680 They made the wrong call, by the way, probably.

00:40:57.520 So now, having done it, what do you think of him?

00:41:00.620 About Fuentes?

00:41:01.440 Yeah.

00:41:04.300 I think, um, it's so funny.

00:41:08.980 I did not make Nick Fuentes.

00:41:11.700 Nick Fuentes is, well, he's just enormously gifted as a broadcaster.

00:41:16.440 I mean, it's unbelievable.

00:41:17.640 His talent is, I mean, I have done that job.

00:41:20.980 Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously.

00:41:22.960 But, I mean, I've sat in front of a camera and talked.

00:41:25.080 He's really good at it.

00:41:26.880 He has not been canceled.

00:41:28.180 He can't be canceled.

00:41:30.040 So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of, like, what place does he occupy?

00:41:35.400 What does he say about our society?

00:41:38.040 And I'm not making excuses for anybody else's views.

00:41:41.960 I'm just saying as a factual matter, if this is the most popular person among young men,

00:41:47.480 young white men, then we need to, like, start thinking about why that is.

00:41:52.360 And we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which is destroy them, actually.

00:41:59.500 And no one wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever.

00:42:05.540 No one ever wants to repent.

00:42:06.860 They all want to cast stones.

00:42:08.160 They don't see the plank in their own eye.

00:42:09.660 This is including me.

00:42:10.320 It's just humans are like this.

00:42:11.900 And they want to be, like, Nazi.

00:42:13.200 And it's like, oh, yeah, okay.

00:42:14.800 Great.

00:42:15.000 Great.

00:42:16.200 But, like, how did this happen?

00:42:18.280 Why are they listening to him?

00:42:19.380 Kind of.

00:42:20.120 Can I ask you?

00:42:20.820 And part of the reason is because the Republican Party completely betrayed its voters by obsessing over Israel.

00:42:27.840 That's just a fact.

00:42:28.600 Like, what is this?

00:42:29.220 It's a country of nine million people.

00:42:31.440 I'm not against Israel.

00:42:32.780 I visited on vacation.

00:42:34.160 I've always liked.

00:42:34.940 Jerusalem is my favorite city in the world.

00:42:36.400 I'm not against Israel.

00:42:37.480 But, like, why is that the center of our conversation?

00:42:39.920 It's nine million people, no resources.

00:42:42.360 The only strategic value Israel has is the extent to which we have to defend Israel.

00:42:46.920 But take that out, and there's no value at all.

00:42:49.220 I'm not against it.

00:42:49.960 I'm just saying, like, we're a country of 350 million people.

00:42:53.000 We're the most important country in the world.

00:42:54.740 And our politics is, and every, practically every member of Congress spends all day talking about Israel.

00:42:59.640 And if you're a normal person, you're like, I don't hate Israel.

00:43:01.860 I certainly don't hate Jews.

00:43:03.260 But what the hell is this?

00:43:04.960 And then it's like, shut up.

00:43:06.060 You can't talk about it.

00:43:07.100 Why?

00:43:07.280 Can I clarify what you mean?

00:43:08.580 Because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men, I was with you.

00:43:12.960 Both parties have abandoned young men, especially the Democrats, though, for so many other reasons.

00:43:17.420 But why Israel?

00:43:18.320 You're saying the focus?

00:43:19.120 Because all the energy, yeah.

00:43:20.820 I mean, look, Trump is elected.

00:43:23.000 I campaign for him.

00:43:25.460 And I love Trump.

00:43:26.580 I just want to say that.

00:43:27.780 And I talked to him the other day, and I love Trump.

00:43:30.920 And I've known him for 25 years, and I, I mean, I could write many books on Trump.

00:43:35.160 And they would be positive, basically.

00:43:37.140 But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit?

00:43:40.120 Bibi.

00:43:40.440 Then he comes again.

00:43:41.100 Then he comes again.

00:43:41.680 And it's like, the energy of the administration and of the entire U.S. government is all of a sudden about Iran.

00:43:48.520 A war with Iran?

00:43:49.580 Really?

00:43:50.480 How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime?

00:43:54.200 Zero.

00:43:54.600 Because that's the number.

00:43:55.540 How many people do you know who've died of a drug OD?

00:43:57.600 Some.

00:43:58.320 Maybe you have a nephew who did.

00:43:59.940 So, like, what is this?

00:44:00.980 I know you want to have regime change in Iran.

00:44:03.120 I'm not mad at Israel at all.

00:44:05.280 It doesn't, I'm not actually mad at Israel.

00:44:07.560 I'm mad at our leaders for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's country.

00:44:14.480 And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government works for you because you own the government.

00:44:24.300 Because it's a, it's a democratic republic.

00:44:26.480 Like, what the hell is going on?

00:44:28.000 And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi.

00:44:30.480 You're an anti-Semite.

00:44:31.320 Well, actually, I'm not.

00:44:32.580 And I'm in a really great place to say that because I actually, I'm really, I'm not.

00:44:37.500 And no matter how many times they say that, it, like, doesn't bother me because it's, I think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me because I'm pretty reasonable.

00:44:46.220 Like, who, who would disagree with what I'm saying?

00:44:47.940 I'm just, maybe you do.

00:44:50.200 Okay, you do, but you do.

00:44:52.640 You disagree with what I'm saying.

00:44:53.520 But, like, what is the answer?

00:44:55.360 Why would the U.S. government spend all this time?

00:45:00.320 No, I'm, it's a sincere question.

00:45:02.200 Why is the overwhelming majority of the U.S. Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby?

00:45:07.700 Like, what?

00:45:09.100 Like, what is the answer?

00:45:10.140 Why is that okay?

00:45:11.960 And they want, they don't, they want to prevent you from asking that question because there really isn't a good answer other than shut up.

00:45:20.640 And if there's, if that's the only answer, I just, by my temperament and my age, I'm just not going to shut up because that's not hate.

00:45:28.560 It's sincere.

00:45:29.360 What is that?

00:45:30.120 What do you make of the folks who say Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East?

00:45:34.260 They're in a very tough neighborhood.

00:45:35.460 They have our shared Western values.

00:45:37.240 They have our back, we have their back, and that we have much more in common with the people in Israel than we do with some of these surrounding countries.

00:45:45.140 I would say, what are you talking about?

00:45:46.460 Who are pushing things like Sharia law, which I've heard you comment on.

00:45:48.780 Okay.

00:45:49.820 What's happening in Gaza, which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists, they've said that, too.

00:45:59.320 This is not a left-wing talking point.

00:46:02.060 Have you read?

00:46:03.100 Guys are fiery tonight.

00:46:04.940 It's just a fact.

00:46:05.780 Read Ben-Gavir, Smotrich, on this.

00:46:09.080 These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying, starve them out.

00:46:14.520 Kill them.

00:46:15.160 Kill their children.

00:46:16.300 This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel saying this out loud.

00:46:20.120 That is not Western.

00:46:21.260 That's Eastern.

00:46:22.420 That is totally incompatible with Western civilization.

00:46:25.920 We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances, or else we're as bad as the people we're fighting.

00:46:33.580 And that, by the way, the U.S. government has done the same, and I've complained about it a lot.

00:46:39.100 And no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government.

00:46:42.040 So why is it verboten to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away?

00:46:46.360 What the hell are you talking about?

00:46:48.120 That is a great question.

00:46:48.840 I just believe in the principle.

00:46:50.800 And second, tell me why they're our most important ally.

00:46:54.860 Right down the road, you've got countries that have, like, the bulk of the world's energy supply.

00:46:59.700 That's not an important ally?

00:47:01.400 What?

00:47:01.720 But if you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America, you don't want to make unnecessary enemies.

00:47:07.660 I like Israel for the eighth time.

00:47:09.980 How many people have been there on vacation just because they like it?

00:47:12.360 I have.

00:47:12.780 I took my kids.

00:47:13.660 I'm not against it.

00:47:14.540 I don't want it to get hurt.

00:47:16.200 But from a geostrategic point of view, your duty, if you're running the State Department or running the White House or a member of Congress,

00:47:23.540 is to serve the people who elected you in your country.

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00:49:36.340 I would hate for people to believe that the Nick Fuentes sort of, my problems with Nick Fuentes are about me because they really are not.

00:49:43.980 They are about the fact that Nick Fuentes is a truly horrifying person who believes truly horrifying things.

00:49:51.840 And again, there is a reason why Charlie Crick despised him.

00:49:55.460 There is a reason why every mainstream political commentator has been highly critical of him.

00:50:02.540 It's the reason why.

00:50:03.660 These are not arguments.

00:50:04.720 This is not a person who's making arguments.

00:50:05.960 He is a Hitler-loving troll.

00:50:08.260 And I say that advisedly.

00:50:09.920 He literally says on his show that he loves Adolf Hitler.

00:50:13.820 Okay?

00:50:14.040 So the reason this has come up in recent weeks is because Tucker, your guest last night, decided to have him on last week and to completely gloss him, in my opinion.

00:50:24.120 And you can make up your own opinion as to what you think Tucker was doing during that interview.

00:50:27.480 But I know what it looks like when Tucker Carlson decides to be an aggressive interviewer or when he decides to ask difficult questions of people.

00:50:33.040 Tucker is eminently capable of doing that.

00:50:35.020 And he did it to Ted Cruz quite thoroughly.

00:50:37.340 But he decided for any number of reasons, and I try not to attribute motivations to people, that he was going to treat Fuentes with kid gloves.

00:50:46.480 That he was going to not ask him about any of the things that I've just mentioned.

00:50:49.600 I mean, literally any of them, and to essentially normalize Fuentes, act as a sort of gateway drug or as a, what I've called Tucker, as an ideological launderer of bad ideas over the last couple of years.

00:51:02.020 And this is not coming from a place of animus for Tucker on a personal level.

00:51:06.860 I've known Tucker for a very long time.

00:51:08.640 Tucker, whenever we're in personal situations, we get along great.

00:51:11.440 I think I saw that Tucker talked about how we were at Charlie's Memorial in the vice president's box together.

00:51:16.140 And he's correct.

00:51:16.660 I mean, we saw each other.

00:51:17.820 We said hello.

00:51:18.460 We talked.

00:51:18.920 It was very friendly.

00:51:20.020 And all of that.

00:51:20.900 And it's also true that a couple of days after Charlie's murder, he reached out and he called me and he said, listen, I know that we're at odds.

00:51:27.060 And we've been at odds for a number of reasons, mainly political.

00:51:30.900 I mean, again, on a personal level, I'd go fishing with Tucker any time.

00:51:34.320 The real question is, for me, I got into this business because I care about the ideas and I care about the ideals.

00:51:41.000 And so when you're determining what is conservatism, what should the future of America look like, and where do you draw the lines, those are the questions that I need to answer.

00:51:49.600 In my job.

00:51:50.600 For me, my business is really not about friendship.

00:51:54.060 I have lots of friends, people who I love, with whom I disagree on politics and don't believe they should be leaders in the conservative movement, for example.

00:52:01.340 And that, to me, is the real question.

00:52:03.500 In any case, Tucker reached out.

00:52:05.020 He said, you know, we've had a bunch of disagreements.

00:52:07.340 And, you know, what if we could put those aside and align toward the DSA in particular, is what he mentioned.

00:52:12.820 And I said, you know, Tucker, you're totally right.

00:52:15.640 Let's do that.

00:52:16.200 That would be great.

00:52:17.640 In fact...

00:52:17.860 What, the TSA?

00:52:18.880 The DSA, DSA.

00:52:20.040 The Democratic Socialist of America.

00:52:20.960 What, the TSA?

00:52:22.140 How did that bring you together?

00:52:23.200 The Democratic Socialist of America.

00:52:24.500 And the reason I'm taking...

00:52:24.940 No, that I know.

00:52:25.540 Yes.

00:52:26.020 And the reason that I'm taking out my phone...

00:52:26.760 TSA only divides people.

00:52:28.300 Is because...

00:52:28.360 Is because...

00:52:29.140 Yes.

00:52:29.840 The reason I'm taking out my phone is because it's...

00:52:31.640 I don't just...

00:52:32.500 You know, I like to evidence what I'm saying with, you know, actual evidence.

00:52:37.900 So I texted him.

00:52:39.540 And the text exchange was very nice.

00:52:41.500 I mean, here's what the actual text exchange went like after the call.

00:52:44.140 So I texted him and I said, thanks so much for calling.

00:52:46.400 It means the world.

00:52:47.020 It truly does.

00:52:48.040 Should we do a show together?

00:52:49.260 Talking about the DSA threat, Democratic Socialist of America threat, and orienting in the same direction.

00:52:54.040 Happy to do whatever it takes to bring everyone back together for the fight that matters.

00:52:57.140 And Tucker then wrote back, thanks, man.

00:53:00.100 I appreciate it.

00:53:00.860 I'm going to spend the next week or two thinking about how to be most effective.

00:53:03.600 The country is clearly on the brink.

00:53:05.700 I reached out repeatedly.

00:53:07.420 After that, nothing happened.

00:53:10.080 And again, I thought it was a good idea at the time.

00:53:13.440 I think I felt differently after I saw what he did with Nick Fuentes and after he proceeded, in my opinion, to spend the subsequent weeks doing literally nothing to fight the left.

00:53:23.420 Again, I say this with sadness because Tucker used to be, I think, a deeply important part of the conservative push to win.

00:53:33.260 The number of times that Tucker Carlson has mentioned Zoran Mamdani since October 5th on his show is once.

00:53:39.720 And it was in the context of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson talking about the appeal of Zoran Mamdani.

00:53:44.960 Just by way of contrast, not because I'm a perfect representative here, but because you've talked about Zoran Mamdani a lot.

00:53:50.660 A lot of us have.

00:53:51.660 Since October 5th, I did 17 separate shows on Zoran Mamdani, including four in the last week before the election.

00:53:57.700 Because when you're orienting against the left, you really should orient against the left.

00:54:01.440 Okay, so, a lot in there.

00:54:08.920 I think, just to be clear, so the breakdown from the, like, detente after Charlie was him interviewing Fuentes.

00:54:16.700 Like, was that the next thing that happened that led to the blow-up?

00:54:20.260 I mean, yes.

00:54:21.520 I mean, I had not spoken a word.

00:54:23.340 So it wasn't that he attacked you, like, or you had something?

00:54:25.720 No, I don't care about people attacking you.

00:54:27.540 I don't think Tucker cares about people attacking him.

00:54:29.240 I mean, again, we're professionals, we're in a business where people comment on what we say publicly.

00:54:35.380 Again, this is why I think you and I differ on our angle with regard to, for example, Candace Owens.

00:54:40.960 I think that what Candace Owens is doing right now is evil.

00:54:43.660 It is evil, what she is doing right now.

00:54:45.840 Okay, and I say that, again.

00:54:48.320 But what, like, I didn't opine on whether it's evil or not, but my position is it's really none of my business.

00:54:54.920 I have a question.

00:54:56.300 Why is it none of your business?

00:54:57.420 I mean, you comment on these things for a living.

00:54:59.680 I'm not mother of the internet.

00:55:00.940 No, but if this were on the left and somebody were accusing Charlie Kirk of his wife having murdered him, I assume that you would be talking about it.

00:55:08.160 Is that what Candace is accusing Erica of?

00:55:10.300 Yes.

00:55:10.800 Of murdering her own husband?

00:55:12.400 She's accusing TPUSA insiders and other members of the right wing, including Seth Dillon, of being involved in the murder of Charlie Kirk, yes.

00:55:20.760 Okay.

00:55:21.180 Like I said, I don't take in that content, which is an honest statement.

00:55:24.300 I don't have time to watch Candace's show.

00:55:25.600 I believe you, I believe you, but the point that I'm making is that friendship should not, in our business, I think it's important.

00:55:31.360 Listen, friendship should not trump.

00:55:33.740 We don't even know each other.

00:55:34.580 I understand, but even with Tucker, friendship should not trump our manifest requirement to speak out when people do and say things that are both detrimental to conservatism and morally wrong.

00:55:44.940 Okay, so I don't totally disagree, but I think the way of handling that, at least for me, is much different.

00:55:50.860 So I saw things go south between you and Tucker, at least from my vantage point, when you disagreed on Israel.

00:55:57.920 That was obvious.

00:55:59.020 Well, let me just make my point.

00:56:00.400 Sure.

00:56:00.480 So he was saying things that were critical of Israel and our policy towards Israel, and then you did one show where you did what I thought you should have done, if you disagreed with him, which clearly you did, which is say what you believe and what you think is factual and, like, educate your audience on what you think are the real facts and give them the evidence for it.

00:56:17.360 But you named him, and it felt like an attack, and that, to me, was the beginning of the end, where he was like, now it's on, because he felt personally attacked by you, as opposed to just challenging his idea.

00:56:29.440 I think you named him, and you kind of diminished him, and, you know, he's an 800-pound gorilla, and if you mess with a gorilla, he's going to fight, and to me, that's where it started to go south, because I remember that day being like, oh, shit, I don't want to see this.

00:56:42.900 But here's the thing, I would urge everybody to go back and listen to the show that you're referring to, where I criticized Tucker's ideas, not Tucker as a person.

00:56:49.200 Tucker then responded by claiming that I do not love America, that is a direct quote, that I do not love America, because I was spending too much time covering the October 7th attacks, and then proceeded in January to then say that I wanted his children to die in a foreign war.

00:57:05.120 Okay, so those are a different...

00:57:06.120 That's a rhetorical point.

00:57:07.220 No, it is not.

00:57:08.200 I'm sorry, it's not.

00:57:08.960 An attack on motivation is a very different thing from an attack on an idea.

00:57:12.020 His point was that you were sounding like a neocon, and he's upset with anybody who wants us to get too involved in Israel's conflict, because he feels it endangers American children.

00:57:21.880 Okay, the idea that, number one, the idea that I want the United States to be directly involved in Israel's conflict is not true.

00:57:29.340 I get it, no, I know that, Ben.

00:57:30.420 I've been urging Israel to get off of American aid for literally as long as I have been active in politics.

00:57:34.940 But I'm making clear what his point was.

00:57:36.500 No, no, but my point is that that's not his point.

00:57:39.040 And again, none of this blew into...

00:57:40.460 So we disagree.

00:57:40.840 Well, no, we disagree on the interpretation of what Tucker has been doing for the past two years.

00:57:46.580 And it's very difficult for me to believe that Tucker is merely anti-Israel when, for example, today, in his newsletter, I mean, I can directly quote it if you'd like, in his newsletter today, he claimed that Zoran Mamdani is not anti-Semitic.

00:58:01.720 This was his newsletter today, this morning.

00:58:03.980 I mean, I'm happy to read the text.

00:58:06.720 It's pretty, it's a little extraordinary because, again, it is kind of shocking stuff.

00:58:11.080 So here's what Tucker Carlson wrote in his newsletter today, or what his newsletter says under his name.

00:58:16.400 He said,

00:58:16.780 If we're talking about fighting the left, defending Zoran Mamdani, who literally said that Hamas, he has no opinion whether Hamas should disarm, who posed alongside the 1993 World Trade Center unindicted co-conspirator,

00:58:37.520 who wouldn't have disarm globalized the Enzifada, who suggested that whenever there is a New York Police Department boot on somebody's neck, it's an IDF lacing the strings,

00:58:46.460 to suggest that that's not anti-Semitic in any way, no way.

00:58:49.420 Okay, but listen.

00:58:49.980 Listen, I'm going to give you a defense of Tucker here, and I don't need to defend Tucker, because I'm not Tucker.

00:58:54.780 Tucker can perfectly well defend himself.

00:58:56.720 But I'll just say, I think in general, because I know him, and I listen to him, and I understand generally where he's coming from,

00:59:01.320 he would say his problems are with Israel, and he would say that that shot that Mamdani laid against the IDF is a shot against the IDF,

00:59:09.440 and Israel, and how he thinks they're pro-war, not against Jews.

00:59:14.000 All I can say is, when Tucker Carlson finds himself in complete alignment with Zoran Mamdani,

00:59:19.200 it is very difficult for me to believe that he does not agree with Zoran Mamdani.

00:59:22.780 I think Tucker is in a place right now of the same place that Charlie was getting to toward the end of his life,

00:59:28.400 the same place that some people had tried to drive me, which is, you're under withering, non-stop accusations of being something you know you're not.

00:59:37.940 But from some people who you love, and who you've been protecting, at least in my case and Charlie's case, for two years,

00:59:45.360 who you've been completely defensive of.

00:59:47.320 And Charlie and I both felt, because we talked about this on my show, like, what's happening here?

00:59:52.500 Why are they dropping charges of anti-Semitism against us when we love Jews and we're both open Semites?

00:59:57.960 We're Zionists.

00:59:58.960 So, Megan, you may notice, I'm just talking about me here.

01:00:02.120 Are there people who are overzealous? Sure.

01:00:04.080 Have I ever attacked you?

01:00:05.140 No, no, never.

01:00:05.760 Did I ever attack Charlie publicly about any of this?

01:00:08.060 No, no, no.

01:00:08.520 Okay, he and I had disagreements behind the scenes.

01:00:09.880 I'm just saying it's a mentality, right?

01:00:10.380 That you're like, you get defensive, and I think Tucker's feeling defensive.

01:00:13.040 By the way, I waited to attack Tucker until he glossed Nick Fuentes, who is, that has nothing to do with Israel.

01:00:19.260 Nick Fuentes hates Jews.

01:00:21.140 I'm not saying you didn't have a right to go after him.

01:00:23.600 I mean, I think you did what you thought was right.

01:00:26.320 And you felt, and he mentioned you a few times in his interview with Nick Fuentes.

01:00:29.560 He did, but again, I don't think it's about that.

01:00:31.020 Because if he had not mentioned me in that interview with Nick Fuentes, I still would have said something about it.

01:00:34.460 Because again, glossing people who are white supremacists is bad electorally on a pragmatic level.

01:00:40.580 A right wing that embraces its own fringes will end up in the same position as a left wing that has embraced its fringes.

01:00:45.620 That's why I want to get into it.

01:00:47.180 It embraces.

01:00:48.740 Yes.

01:00:49.020 So now having spoken to Tucker, I actually see that interview very differently.

01:00:53.460 And I did listen to the interview, and I knew what Nick Fuentes was.

01:00:57.020 And I think he did show himself to be who he is.

01:00:58.800 It wasn't his most vile stuff, but you got the feel for what this guy was.

01:01:02.300 But I really think Tucker was talking to him, Ben, to put like a bumper on this guy.

01:01:08.180 Because what Tucker was urging him the whole time was to understand that collective punishment for any one group of people is wrong.

01:01:15.180 It's deeply immoral, and it's anti-Christian, which this guy is supposed to be.

01:01:19.480 And reminding him of how deeply immoral that is, that you should not be looking at a group of people, whomever it is.

01:01:27.020 The left does it to everyone, whites mostly, but like this collective shame, white men in particular.

01:01:33.980 And there's a group of people, like Nick Fuentes, that does it to groups of Jews.

01:01:38.980 And he was making the case throughout the whole interview in the way that Tucker does.

01:01:42.960 He's not like you or me.

01:01:44.020 He's not like pointed and cross-examining.

01:01:46.120 That is not true.

01:01:47.040 And was making...

01:01:47.560 That is fundamentally untrue.

01:01:49.140 No, no, no.

01:01:49.500 Ask Senator Ted Cruz whether that is true.

01:01:50.940 He gave it to Ted Cruz because Ted Cruz is a politician.

01:01:54.080 That's...

01:01:54.380 Oh, yeah.

01:01:55.020 Well, hold on.

01:01:55.480 Hold on.

01:01:55.780 So only politicians get cross-examined?

01:01:57.360 You don't...

01:01:57.780 Well, look.

01:01:57.960 It depends on the person.

01:01:59.040 Tucker would never cross-examine a person who is not a politician.

01:02:01.800 That's his rule?

01:02:02.320 Tucker has excoriated public figures who purport to speak for us and represent us for many years.

01:02:10.420 Nick Fuentes is a podcaster civilian.

01:02:13.180 Okay.

01:02:13.480 I just have a question.

01:02:15.160 We all in our industry are constantly excoriating people who are in our industry.

01:02:19.400 It happens all the time, every single day.

01:02:22.860 Okay.

01:02:23.080 Okay, again...

01:02:23.440 But we're talking about his interviews.

01:02:24.840 Again, we can agree to disagree on your interpretation of what Tucker was doing there.

01:02:29.100 I think everybody should watch and determine for themselves what they think Tucker was

01:02:33.160 doing in that interview, and I urge you to watch it back-to-back with the Ted Cruz

01:02:36.660 interview to determine whether you think that that was an aggressive Tucker Carlson

01:02:40.160 interview, and you can judge for yourself.

01:02:41.460 You don't have to take my opinion.

01:02:42.500 I didn't say it was aggressive, and I don't think he would say it was aggressive.

01:02:44.800 And I think his point was, this guy, first of all, he's become a behemoth, sadly.

01:02:48.980 He's got five million viewers on Rumble.

01:02:51.420 He's got a million followers on X.

01:02:53.100 I agree.

01:02:53.440 This is all before Tucker Carlson, and he was platformed, I hate that verb, but he

01:02:57.000 was platformed by Patrick Beck David, and he went on Dave Smith's show, and he went on

01:03:00.120 another big show.

01:03:00.880 He's been getting more and more purchase in the political ecosphere, including right

01:03:06.400 wing.

01:03:06.820 And I think that's bad.

01:03:07.680 Patrick Beck David has a huge show.

01:03:09.340 I know, but did you know that Patrick Beck David had him on?

01:03:12.040 Did his life blow up?

01:03:13.500 Patrick Beck David did a significantly more aggressive interview with Nick Fuentes than Tucker did.

01:03:17.300 Okay, but my point is simply, he's growing.

01:03:19.560 He's growing in stature.

01:03:20.620 And so, what I saw Tucker do was not whitewash his ideas, but try to put bumpers up on the

01:03:26.460 guy.

01:03:26.740 I know Tucker well, and I think that was his approach.

01:03:29.040 And the way, if you want to put a bumper up on Nick Fuentes, is it helpful to say, you're

01:03:34.940 fucking vile, you're an anti-Semite, you hate, no it isn't.

01:03:37.760 Yes, it is.

01:03:38.360 That doesn't put a, no it isn't.

01:03:39.940 That makes the audience feel good, because you have hand-to-hand combat, but it doesn't

01:03:43.580 help change that guy's view, or his extremeness at all.

01:03:47.580 Okay, I'll tell you what doesn't change Nick Fuentes' view.

01:03:50.620 Tucker Carlson with his arm around Nick Fuentes, grinning for the camera, while Nick Fuentes

01:03:55.340 tweets out, America first, and then triumphantly goes on the air the next day to explain that

01:03:59.600 he has essentially used Tucker Carlson as a vehicle for manipulating other people.

01:04:06.140 Okay, that's what Nick Fuentes is saying.

01:04:07.860 Not me.

01:04:08.700 Nick Fuentes.

01:04:09.600 Okay, and Nick Fuentes, and by the way, I will, again, say that Tucker Carlson, when you

01:04:13.940 say to somebody in an interview, do you condemn anti-Semitism?

01:04:17.160 And then the person says, sure, which is what Nick Fuentes said.

01:04:20.560 He said, I'm not an anti-Semite, which is blatantly untrue.

01:04:23.140 A responsible journalist would then follow up, demonstrating that that is false.

01:04:27.880 Tucker did not do that.

01:04:28.860 He allowed him to get away with that, and then he allowed him to talk about, quote-unquote,

01:04:32.260 organized a jury, followed by Nick Fuentes being treated to a disquisition by Tucker Carlson

01:04:38.100 about why Christian Zionists of all human beings on Earth are the people that he hates the most.

01:04:42.440 He took that back.

01:04:43.640 You can't take that back.

01:04:45.320 You can, too.

01:04:45.440 How do you take that back?

01:04:46.600 He did.

01:04:47.380 How?

01:04:48.040 Because he went, he spoke to...

01:04:48.920 Then he should explain why it was wrong.

01:04:50.680 He should explain why Christian Zionists are actually wonderful people.

01:04:52.820 Tucker is very quick to self-flagellate, and he went on with Dave Smith the next day, the

01:04:58.720 next week, whatever, Monday, Tuesday this week, and said, that was stupid.

01:05:02.220 I didn't mean that.

01:05:03.020 He said, I'm angry at people like Lindsey Graham.

01:05:05.320 I'm angry at people like Ted Cruz, because he thinks they run headfirst in these conflicts,

01:05:09.520 and they don't think about what's going to happen to American kids.

01:05:12.180 If we're talking about firing inside the tent, what everything Lindsey Graham, okay, and

01:05:15.760 I'm not a huge Lindsey Graham fan, he votes with the President of the United States 100%

01:05:18.840 of the time, and Tucker spent yesterday's show excoriating him as a psychosexual death

01:05:24.040 worshiper.

01:05:25.160 Does that sound like firing outside the tent?

01:05:27.480 Again, these are the questions...

01:05:28.620 I've got to say, I'm not offended.

01:05:29.520 Again, the questions that I'm asking here, I'm not asking you to do anything, Megan.

01:05:33.360 No, I know.

01:05:33.820 Okay, I'm not.

01:05:34.580 I know.

01:05:34.640 Our beef is not with each other.

01:05:35.480 I'm not.

01:05:35.760 Okay?

01:05:36.760 When I draw a line with regard to what I believe Tucker Carlson is doing to the conservative

01:05:40.800 movement and what he is fomenting, that is because that is my...

01:05:43.940 And everyone can make their own decision as to whether they think that I am right or whether

01:05:46.900 I am wrong, and where they choose to draw the line with regard to the conservative movement.

01:05:50.740 The question for me is always whether somebody's statements are forwarding moral values that

01:05:56.400 I think are worthwhile.

01:05:57.160 I did not get into this business for the money or for the clicks.

01:05:59.620 You didn't either?

01:06:00.500 Neither did he.

01:06:01.700 What was that?

01:06:02.320 Neither did he.

01:06:02.960 I mean, he may not have.

01:06:04.120 That's fine.

01:06:04.960 I certainly did not.

01:06:05.920 I'm only going to speak for myself.

01:06:07.360 And what that means for me is that if I see somebody breach basic moral values by having

01:06:13.340 on a Nazi, and in my own view, you can take your own view, in my own view, gloss the Nazi,

01:06:20.160 then I'm going to speak out about that, and I'm going to point out that there is a long

01:06:23.260 pattern of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of the last two years,

01:06:27.680 ranging from traveling to Russia to sniff the bread and explain why the Russian regime

01:06:32.240 is actually wonderful, two, saying last week that the Venezuelan regime of Nicolas Maduro

01:06:39.240 is actually not that bad because they're being attacked by, in his words, Globo Homo.

01:06:45.360 Tucker's made the point.

01:06:46.100 I'm not going to be here to be Tucker's defender, but he's made the point that Maduro is culturally

01:06:49.820 conservative.

01:06:50.500 Who gives a shit?

01:06:51.960 The guy's a communist dictator.

01:06:54.300 Everyone in his country is eating dog.

01:06:56.020 He's shipping fentanyl to the United States to kill Americans.

01:06:59.580 Why do I give a shit whether he's anti-LGBTQ rights?

01:07:04.740 This is the number one thing about Nicolas Maduro?

01:07:06.680 You know how far down the list you have to get before you can get to anything remotely

01:07:09.600 recommendable about Nicolas Maduro?

01:07:11.340 I did ask him yesterday about the criticism that he didn't give Nick Fuentes a hard time,

01:07:19.840 right?

01:07:19.980 He didn't bring up the stuff that we were talking about.

01:07:23.000 No, he didn't.

01:07:24.220 And here's what he said.

01:07:26.580 It seemed to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.

01:07:30.780 He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms, which I mean, so what do you

01:07:37.300 say to those people?

01:07:37.960 Why didn't you raise any of that?

01:07:40.180 You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it.

01:07:43.340 You're not my editor.

01:07:44.700 Buzz off.

01:07:45.620 I mean, I don't know.

01:07:46.480 You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes?

01:07:47.700 I'll give you a cell.

01:07:48.300 I'll call him and go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever.

01:07:52.000 That's up to you.

01:07:52.820 I agree with him.

01:07:55.540 By the way.

01:07:55.840 No, I agree.

01:07:56.420 I agree with him.

01:07:57.040 I agree with him.

01:07:57.880 He did the interview that he wanted to do for a reason.

01:08:02.800 Well, who has it worse?

01:08:03.880 Get out of my shot!

01:08:04.800 The Katie Porter staff or the Meghan Markle staff?

01:08:07.900 Yeah.

01:08:10.320 Who would you rather work for?

01:08:14.060 Katie, right?

01:08:15.320 Or Meghan, because at least you could, like, spy on them and see their weird little life.

01:08:19.060 Do we have to?

01:08:19.960 Do we have to?

01:08:20.520 We definitely have to.

01:08:21.240 There's only one Meghan I can actually still be civil to, and it's the one sitting to my

01:08:24.940 left.

01:08:26.320 The other one.

01:08:27.100 You know, she's getting back into acting, Piers.

01:08:29.140 I'm sure you saw that.

01:08:30.580 She's shooting a movie now.

01:08:32.380 She's playing herself in a movie.

01:08:33.840 Yeah, she's, she's, which is, I guess, acting.

01:08:37.040 Yeah, look.

01:08:39.000 I'm actually genuinely curious.

01:08:40.800 Are there any fans of Meghan Markle in tonight?

01:08:43.920 No.

01:08:45.560 Oh, hang on.

01:08:47.240 There is one lone hand that's raised up here.

01:08:50.700 Subversive.

01:08:51.280 Actually, that's one, but that is one more than I expected.

01:08:56.460 I have to be honest.

01:08:58.460 Do you think she's going to make it in the acting world?

01:09:00.100 I mean, remember, I used to do a show called Good Morning Britain in Britain, and I love

01:09:03.280 that show.

01:09:03.840 That was a great show.

01:09:04.560 And in five years, we trebled the ratings.

01:09:06.800 It was on fire.

01:09:08.320 Like, everyone loved it.

01:09:09.580 And then came the Oprah Winfrey wine-a-thon, as I call it.

01:09:12.880 You and I were on together the morning after that.

01:09:15.520 Yes.

01:09:15.700 Remember that?

01:09:16.300 Yes.

01:09:16.580 I had no show.

01:09:17.440 I was sitting in my living room.

01:09:18.860 We took that thing down.

01:09:20.580 Well, because there were certain things she said in that, and Halfwit Harry, her husband.

01:09:26.080 And one of the things they said was that the Archbishop of Canterbury had secretly married

01:09:32.660 them in their back garden three days before the wedding on TV.

01:09:36.200 So we did a quick check, because I thought, that can't be right.

01:09:39.000 And we did a quick check.

01:09:40.000 It turns out that had the Archbishop of Canterbury secretly married them in their garden, he would

01:09:45.880 have broken the law and been sent to prison.

01:09:48.820 So I thought, yeah, old Princess Pinocchio is off on a good one here.

01:09:54.220 And then the rest of it was, and all the racism claims turned out to be bullshit.

01:09:58.440 The mental health claims were bullshit.

01:09:59.940 All of it was bullshit, designed to damage and attack the royal family, the monarchy,

01:10:05.560 and all of it.

01:10:06.020 And it made me puke.

01:10:07.200 Let's not forget the Oprah performance.

01:10:10.640 Oh, yeah.

01:10:10.880 What?

01:10:11.280 What?

01:10:12.320 What?

01:10:12.580 What?

01:10:13.080 What?

01:10:13.620 These people?

01:10:14.400 What?

01:10:15.900 How dark your baby was going to be?

01:10:17.940 It was ridiculous.

01:10:19.440 And you know who they were talking about, by the way?

01:10:20.960 Because they accidentally put the names of the alleged racists in a, I think it was a

01:10:26.320 Danish copy of the book by Omid Scobie, this little rat bag who writes books supporting them.

01:10:33.720 And the two members of the royal family who apparently expressed concern about the skin colour of their unborn child were King Charles, Prince Charles at the time, and Catherine, William's wife.

01:10:48.840 Now, how likely do you think it is that either of those two people expressed negative concern about the skin colour of an unborn child?

01:10:59.100 Yeah.

01:10:59.640 Zero.

01:11:00.000 Absolutely big, fat zero.

01:11:02.640 Yep.

01:11:02.940 And yet, that was what they told the world in that interview.

01:11:06.040 That's why I thought it was so disgusting.

01:11:09.140 And, all right, in the end, I was told that 57,000 people complained to the television regulators at Ofcom in the UK.

01:11:18.240 A world record, I'm proud to say, complained about me for not believing Princess Pinocchio.

01:11:25.060 So, I was then told by my bosses, look, by the way, rule one here, never apologise, never clarify, never do anything.

01:11:33.280 I can verify that.

01:11:34.220 But it doesn't work.

01:11:35.180 We know this.

01:11:36.040 So, we did a clarification the next day, and it made no difference.

01:11:39.600 The complaints kept coming in.

01:11:41.040 And eventually, my bosses said, can you just apologise to Meghan Markle, or you're going to have to, you know, maybe lose your job.

01:11:47.740 I went, I'll take the job option, thanks, I'll leave.

01:11:50.700 And I walked off into the sunset.

01:11:52.600 That's right.

01:11:53.480 Because two things about the woke mob, and she's the high priestess of wokery, and her husband's the high priest, halfwit of wokery.

01:12:03.600 And the truth about it is, never bow to the mob, never grovel, never apologise, never give them an inch.

01:12:10.860 And when you have something that's a point of principle, stand up for yourself and walk the fuck out.

01:12:15.180 Yes, yes.

01:12:17.600 Amen.

01:12:18.520 Preach.

01:12:19.720 I know you've lived it, I've watched it.

01:12:21.980 She's a bully, and her acting career, whatever she's trying to do, is going to fail, just like everything else she touched fails.

01:12:27.860 I thought, didn't you think the Dodgers video clip from their living room?

01:12:32.020 Oh my God.

01:12:32.800 With her waltzing around.

01:12:34.860 Yes.

01:12:35.820 Like a hyena.

01:12:36.640 Literally like a hyena with a spear in its back, wasn't it?

01:12:40.180 Eeeh, eeeh, eeeh.

01:12:42.080 And Harry's face.

01:12:43.280 The halfwit sat there like he was doped out of his brain, which he probably was.

01:12:47.120 And the whole thing was so cringe, wasn't it?

01:12:50.000 It was awful.

01:12:50.980 Terrible.

01:12:51.540 I really want there to be a season three, though, of With Love, Megan.

01:12:54.800 Don't you want to see another, do you want to see another Maureen Callahan parody?

01:12:58.260 We got to do it.

01:12:59.820 We did a little parody of it.

01:13:01.260 Ours was Fuck Off, Megan.

01:13:03.720 And I think I can channel her better than she can channel her.

01:13:06.620 I think I'm a much more likable version of her.

01:13:08.520 As I said in the parody, as she's encouraging people to drink more, people tend to like me better when they're intoxicated.

01:13:15.660 And I think that's really been her experience.

01:13:17.680 So I don't think the acting career is going to do it.

01:13:19.480 But the name of the movie is Close Personal Friends.

01:13:23.060 And I thought, how ironic Pierre is, because she has none of those.

01:13:27.140 None.

01:13:28.460 Right?

01:13:28.920 I mean, like, you see the parade of people who go through her little TV show.

01:13:32.540 And it's all like, oh, this is the person of my closest and dearest friends.

01:13:35.720 And they're sitting there.

01:13:36.460 And she's like, oh, do you have children?

01:13:40.240 That is your best friend.

01:13:41.680 What was your name again?

01:13:44.860 It's amazing.

01:13:46.040 You mentioned British television, how poorly you were treated.

01:13:49.020 And it was disgusting.

01:13:50.560 And the UK is even walker than we are.

01:13:53.140 And they're very annoying.

01:13:54.500 And they're way more Muslim than we are, radical Muslim.

01:13:57.100 And way more pro-immigrant.

01:13:58.580 It's bad.

01:13:59.120 It's bad.

01:13:59.560 You guys are a canary in the coal mine in a lot of ways for us.

01:14:02.420 But we saw something happen on the BBC this week that made international headlines.

01:14:06.440 And it was absurd.

01:14:08.000 So this woman, this presenter, as you say, was doing a report about various groups who might

01:14:16.400 be affected by some medical policy.

01:14:18.400 And the list included, should have included, pregnant women.

01:14:23.060 But instead, this happened.

01:14:25.180 We have the soundbite.

01:14:26.120 Let's watch it.

01:14:30.600 London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has released research which says that nearly

01:14:35.360 600 heat-related deaths are expected in the UK.

01:14:39.660 Malcolm Mistry, who was involved in the research, says that the aged pregnant people, women, and

01:14:46.300 those with pre-existing health conditions, need to take precautions.

01:14:52.340 Would you believe for that they're trying to give her the Piers Morgan treatment?

01:14:58.180 They just upheld 20 complaints against her.

01:15:01.400 Imagine who those 20 people are, right?

01:15:04.120 Just imagine.

01:15:05.760 Stuck in their dungeon at home, right?

01:15:07.960 In their joyless, woke dungeon.

01:15:10.080 And decided to complain about a woman presenter being forced to read the words, pregnant people.

01:15:16.300 Well, how many times have you seen a pregnant man in your life?

01:15:23.620 How many times do you think you'll see a pregnant man in the rest of your life?

01:15:28.100 Here's a spoiler alert.

01:15:29.620 You won't.

01:15:30.660 There aren't any pregnant men.

01:15:33.040 It is bullshit.

01:15:35.980 It's so mad.

01:15:37.100 You know the irony, Megan?

01:15:38.520 The irony, I tell that story in my book, Woke is Dead, about that incident.

01:15:44.220 And I say, wasn't it great that the BBC didn't bow to the mob and actually didn't take any

01:15:50.920 action against her?

01:15:52.020 As my book is published in America now, they come back and they punish her.

01:15:57.560 I mean, you literally couldn't make it up.

01:15:59.320 Yes.

01:15:59.720 No.

01:16:00.080 I mean, is she going to lose her job over this?

01:16:01.960 I don't think so.

01:16:02.840 But it's just, I wish every female presenter at the BBC stood up and walked out until they

01:16:08.380 withdrew the ruling against her.

01:16:10.800 Yeah.

01:16:11.020 Because no woman should have to be made to read out the words, pregnant people.

01:16:15.760 And what she got...

01:16:16.340 It is actually about the, it's about the complete disintegration of gendered language that benefits

01:16:23.120 women.

01:16:23.840 You know, we talked about...

01:16:24.480 Of truth.

01:16:24.840 It's about the disintegration of truth.

01:16:26.320 It became birthing people.

01:16:27.960 I mean, what does it mean?

01:16:29.020 Nothing.

01:16:29.820 Right?

01:16:30.200 Nor is chest feeding a thing.

01:16:31.440 That's also a lie.

01:16:32.220 Chest feeding.

01:16:34.940 Chest feeding.

01:16:36.820 What the fuck is that?

01:16:39.320 It's also known as child abuse.

01:16:42.900 This poor woman, her sin in that video was not just that she corrected the term pregnant people,

01:16:49.160 but then they said she made a face.

01:16:51.940 She made a face that expressed personal opinion.

01:16:56.600 Meanwhile, the people are all over the BBC expressing opinions, especially on race, like

01:17:01.760 when they watch sporting events and so on.

01:17:03.540 Of course.

01:17:04.060 There's never any discipline.

01:17:05.480 It's only on something...

01:17:06.320 That's a hypocrisy.

01:17:06.820 Yeah.

01:17:06.940 It's a really bad misstep by the BBC.

01:17:08.940 I actually like the BBC.

01:17:10.240 They did a lot of great stuff.

01:17:11.320 You're the one.

01:17:11.540 But honestly, they've grown very woke.

01:17:14.520 And this is an example of why, although I say woke is dead, it's an aspiration.

01:17:19.100 It still pokes his head up, and you've got to rebel it.

01:17:21.740 The reason I think it's dead, the story recently of Graham Linehan, the comedian.

01:17:25.600 Yeah.

01:17:25.980 Irish comedian.

01:17:26.300 He came on our show.

01:17:27.540 Pretty fearless guy.

01:17:29.320 He winds people up with the way he says stuff.

01:17:31.420 Fair enough.

01:17:31.860 He can be very abrasive.

01:17:33.200 But he's fought a pretty lonely battle on behalf of women's rights against a trans activist,

01:17:37.880 and it's cost him everything.

01:17:39.280 It cost him his marriage, his home, his job, his livelihood.

01:17:42.940 He was the creator of Father Tate, one of the great comedies.

01:17:46.380 And yeah, we should give him a round of applause, actually.

01:17:48.960 Yeah, go, Graham.

01:17:50.180 And not all heroes wear cakes, right?

01:17:54.280 They can come in all guises.

01:17:56.080 And he's an unlikely hero.

01:17:57.540 But he became one for me because the other day, he comes into Heathrow Airport.

01:18:01.780 It's the first time he's been back to the UK since he put two jokes on X, on his X account,

01:18:08.140 in April.

01:18:09.320 And one joke was, to summarize it, was a bit of a lame gag, but, you know, is it really that terrible?

01:18:15.640 He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman's changing room, and he said,

01:18:22.260 what the best thing to do is kick them in the balls.

01:18:24.540 Now, look.

01:18:27.220 Some will find that funny.

01:18:28.900 Some will think it's a bit over the top.

01:18:30.900 All right.

01:18:31.820 You know, if you go to any comedy club in the world, you'll hear jokes like that every 10 seconds.

01:18:35.700 That was the joke.

01:18:36.620 He sat there on his X account.

01:18:38.420 People either laughed or didn't laugh, as we've done tonight.

01:18:41.660 But when he came into Heathrow three, four weeks ago, five armed police officers were waiting

01:18:48.040 to arrest him and take him to the cells for his joke.

01:18:52.960 Five armed police.

01:18:54.640 And in that moment, I realized my country, which was, you know, Winston Churchill fought

01:18:59.680 World War II with the help of the Americans before you all remind me.

01:19:03.840 And thank you.

01:19:05.040 Thank you.

01:19:06.000 We're pretty proud of that.

01:19:07.320 Thank you.

01:19:09.020 No, genuinely thank you.

01:19:10.400 It was a great team effort.

01:19:11.640 We repelled them together.

01:19:12.660 It was great.

01:19:14.020 But, you know, that war was fought to save us from the Nazis, who would have killed free

01:19:18.300 speech in a second.

01:19:19.580 What are we doing in the United Kingdom?

01:19:21.820 And several hundred people have been arrested for tweets and social media posts in the last

01:19:26.940 couple of years.

01:19:27.580 It is completely ridiculous.

01:19:28.960 You cannot have a free democratic society if you don't aggressively defend freedom of

01:19:36.240 speech and freedom of expression.

01:19:37.980 It is the cornerstone of a democracy.

01:19:41.840 It's, I mean, obviously we love our First Amendment, and I know you and many other Brits

01:19:45.840 are jealous of it.

01:19:46.780 I mean, the First Amendment is being eroded day by day, even here, but at least we have

01:19:50.400 it.

01:19:50.620 It's a very important principle of how we live the way we do.

01:19:54.300 I think the woke mind virus is uniquely tied to a deep unhappiness.

01:19:58.960 You know, you never meet a super happy, woke person.

01:20:01.280 They're joyless.

01:20:02.060 Right.

01:20:02.440 Utterly joyless.

01:20:03.520 And that brings me...

01:20:03.900 They never laugh at any jokes.

01:20:05.580 Have you noticed?

01:20:06.260 Yeah.

01:20:06.840 That's true.

01:20:07.220 Nothing is ever funny.

01:20:08.820 No book is ever a good read.

01:20:10.940 They're all toxic.

01:20:12.320 Every movie is toxic.

01:20:14.580 Everything, clothing you wear at Halloween is toxic.

01:20:17.120 And they are toxic.

01:20:18.120 They are, and they themselves are the toxic ones.

01:20:20.740 They become toxic.

01:20:21.800 So they're always deeply unhappy, which brings me, of course, to Michelle Obama.

01:20:28.900 Again, to quote Stephen L. Miller, Red Steez on X, I regret to inform you we've disappointed

01:20:34.940 the Obamas again.

01:20:35.960 She's been out there promoting her new fashion book.

01:20:42.140 I know all you ladies look up to Michelle Obama as a fashion icon.

01:20:45.060 Do you not?

01:20:46.400 Anna Wintour told us she is.

01:20:48.540 Hello.

01:20:49.600 She was on the cover of Vogue four times.

01:20:51.460 Melania Trump, zero.

01:20:53.920 Not as first lady, anyway.

01:20:55.300 When she was an actual supermodel in Mary Trump, they gave her one.

01:20:58.200 In any event, so Michelle Obama's been doing a book tour to promote her fashion book.

01:21:01.760 And the latest, she's been making all sorts of news for the wrong reasons.

01:21:05.620 And the latest bit that she offered was how tough it was to be first lady because of the

01:21:13.840 hair, makeup, and wardrobe team she had to deal with.

01:21:19.420 Here's just a little sampling of what she's been saying.

01:21:22.740 The job of first lady is an interesting job, non-job.

01:21:27.700 You know, it doesn't come with a real salary or a job description.

01:21:34.200 No one technically elected the first spouse, I'll say.

01:21:40.140 We've only had first ladies.

01:21:43.120 You're supposed to be aspirational, but representational, reachable, approachable.

01:21:50.640 You're supposed to be feminine, but not too sexy.

01:21:54.500 Barack wears the same suit, changes his tie, buttons up.

01:21:59.060 You know, his decision or a man's decision is, do I go with a striped shirt or a plain

01:22:03.540 white shirt?

01:22:04.520 Yes.

01:22:04.800 Do I go with a red tie or blue tie?

01:22:07.320 If the day is long and there are a lot of events, which was always a challenge for me

01:22:13.620 with Barack.

01:22:14.620 If we'd go from Air Force One to a hike to, you know, a fundraiser, what do I wear?

01:22:24.480 Hold on.

01:22:25.560 Stand by.

01:22:26.040 There's another one.

01:22:27.280 SOT 3.

01:22:28.340 Stand by.

01:22:31.160 I was accused of being angry.

01:22:35.760 It was shocking to me.

01:22:37.700 Well, I didn't, I didn't really have that choice this first lady, right?

01:22:41.840 Yeah.

01:22:42.140 Every day, every time I was up, as we called it, you know, I was up for the public.

01:22:47.720 Yes.

01:22:48.260 And the days were, were long.

01:22:50.180 So as you mentioned, to save time.

01:22:53.540 Yes.

01:22:53.960 You know, I, I know having a glam team, a trifecta, it feels like a luxury, but it was

01:23:00.060 a time.

01:23:00.640 It was time.

01:23:01.160 This necessity.

01:23:02.480 Yes.

01:23:02.880 There's absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and makeup and have clothes

01:23:09.280 ready that fit, you know, because where, where is the woman that can live off the rack?

01:23:18.420 Right.

01:23:19.180 No one can live off the rack.

01:23:21.560 I'm sorry, but you have, you have to subject yourself to the burdens of a hair, makeup and

01:23:27.080 wardrobe team.

01:23:27.780 And by the way, by the way, how rich have they become since they left office?

01:23:30.700 I mean, this is the deal, right?

01:23:31.880 Hundreds of millions.

01:23:32.140 They serve their country on a not insignificant sum of money.

01:23:36.120 I think it's about $400,000 a year to press a guess.

01:23:38.680 And they live in unparalleled luxury the entire time they're in office.

01:23:42.460 And when they leave, they make hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars.

01:23:46.300 Has anyone got a tiny violin for me?

01:23:48.420 Yes.

01:23:48.720 So I can start playing here.

01:23:49.980 Yes.

01:23:51.020 Ridiculous.

01:23:51.620 Not for nothing, but did you see that hideous outfit she was wearing?

01:23:56.080 I'm sorry.

01:23:56.660 That's what having too much money does for you.

01:23:58.580 I've just never met somebody so ungrateful in all my life.

01:24:03.160 And what did she start it off with?

01:24:04.560 People said I was hateful.

01:24:06.100 Because you are.

01:24:07.380 She can't stand America.

01:24:09.040 She definitely can't stand Barack.

01:24:11.000 And I don't think she likes herself very much either.

01:24:13.760 So she's been doing this nonstop tour.

01:24:15.380 And I just think there's a strain.

01:24:17.180 She's woke.

01:24:18.420 He's woke.

01:24:19.880 There's a strain in the woke that leads you to be absolutely miserable, which is why they too should be praying for woke to die.

01:24:27.560 And it's why I know this audience is not woke, because you seem so happy.

01:24:31.160 Yes.

01:24:31.740 I mean, look.

01:24:32.420 Totally joyful.

01:24:33.460 Genuinely happy people.

01:24:34.180 Or it may be, having come from England recently, where it was pouring with rain and freezing cold, as it is for about eight months of a year.

01:24:43.120 It may just be because of the weather.

01:24:45.360 Yeah.

01:24:46.040 Go Miami.

01:24:47.120 The Florida weather.

01:24:48.500 Enjoy it while you're here.

01:24:49.760 I will.

01:24:50.200 Thank you, Piers Morgan.

01:24:51.040 My pleasure.

01:24:51.420 Love you so much.

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01:28:06.820 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly.

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01:28:40.380 Kim Kardashian is in the news.

01:28:47.140 Forgive me.

01:28:47.880 I try not to ever say her name.

01:28:50.020 But she's in the news because she came out on the show with an admission that she has a brain aneurysm.

01:28:58.660 And it's a sympathy ploy.

01:29:00.300 Like, oh my God, I have a brain aneurysm.

01:29:02.500 You know, something's going to happen to me, and I'm so worried.

01:29:04.600 Well, it turns out they taped this episode long before it actually hit air.

01:29:09.800 And from the time she tried to get everybody worked up on her new victimhood status, because we know this is such a currency,

01:29:16.820 she showed up in New York City for the launch of her Skims partnership with Nike.

01:29:21.980 She went to that fashion show overseas where she had pantyhose all over her face.

01:29:26.260 She's been on virtually every red carpet known to man.

01:29:29.100 She's been doing talk shows.

01:29:30.140 She's been doing comedy shows.

01:29:31.480 There's really no stopping her from her public appearances.

01:29:35.000 And as it turns out, the brain aneurysm is like some teeny tiny little vein thing that virtually everybody has.

01:29:41.120 And it's really not a big deal.

01:29:42.100 It just needs to be monitored from time to time.

01:29:43.980 She just played it up because she, like so many of these celebrities, wants to lean into victimhood status.

01:29:49.060 Your thoughts on whether we should be moved by Kim's story?

01:29:53.160 I always had a brain aneurysm watching when she was selling the Merkins last week,

01:29:57.080 when she was selling those fake bush panties.

01:29:59.560 I'm like, oh, I'm too gay for this.

01:30:01.340 With the fur?

01:30:01.540 Yeah, with the fur.

01:30:02.360 I will say she did have like a red curly one for little orphan Annie.

01:30:06.560 I thought that was generous.

01:30:07.840 She had a red one for Lindsay Lohan.

01:30:09.180 I thought that was nice.

01:30:10.020 But yeah, no, Kim Kardashian.

01:30:11.360 I mean, I have to say, having grown up in the 70s, I don't remember it ever going that far.

01:30:14.600 I said, Bush is back in office, honey, with that.

01:30:18.480 Anheuser-Busch, Jenna Bush-Hager.

01:30:20.440 Okay, there was a lot of Bush going on.

01:30:23.320 So no, I don't give a shit about Kim Kardashian.

01:30:25.700 I think, honestly, Kim Kardashian, you guys, she has built a career and made billions of dollars off of giving women body dysmorphia.

01:30:36.920 When Kim came into the game, everybody had to get a big ass.

01:30:40.200 So girls went out there and they put themselves in harmful situations to get big asses.

01:30:44.500 They went to foreign countries.

01:30:45.660 They got injections.

01:30:46.860 Now all the Kardashians are on Ozempic.

01:30:48.880 What are those girls supposed to do from around the way who went and got big asses?

01:30:52.860 Yes.

01:30:52.980 So yeah, they've just built this career off of giving women body dysmorphia and then went to fake Bush panties.

01:30:58.400 So you spend millions of dollars on laser hair removal to just drop a merkin?

01:31:04.300 That's a scam right there.

01:31:06.240 That's a scam.

01:31:07.700 And a scandal, really.

01:31:09.060 It's true.

01:31:10.280 Now she's got sheets over her head like freaking Islam or something.

01:31:13.840 I don't know what's going on with her.

01:31:14.960 Oh, it's all the rage in New York City.

01:31:17.980 Let's talk about Michelle Obama.

01:31:19.480 Michelle Obama, just, I know you're all watching her podcast.

01:31:28.020 You're the ones.

01:31:30.480 Michelle Obama wants you to feel very sorry for her because it's very hard being Michelle Obama.

01:31:36.580 Everybody wants a piece of Michelle.

01:31:39.040 It's very hard to be so famous.

01:31:40.960 Michael, big Mike.

01:31:43.400 That's what they're saying.

01:31:45.220 I will say she might have more testosterone than me, that bitch, honestly.

01:31:50.480 Honestly, she might be packing more than me, that whore.

01:31:56.800 Okay, so she's upset because it's hard to be so famous.

01:32:00.420 And she's upset because it was very expensive to live in the White House.

01:32:05.440 They had to pay for their own food.

01:32:07.000 Who has to pay for their own food?

01:32:09.140 What kind of world is this?

01:32:10.300 And just as soon as you start working up your sympathy glands for Michelle Obama, you see her just recently out on Steven Spielberg's yacht, cruising around the Mediterranean, while she literally wants you to feel sorry for her.

01:32:26.540 So do you?

01:32:27.080 No, do I feel sorry for Michelle Obama?

01:32:30.340 Hell no.

01:32:31.000 I have this place where I send women I call the unbearables, the insufferables.

01:32:35.300 I send them in my mind to a place called Bitch Island.

01:32:38.260 Okay, I want to send Michelle Obama to Bitch Island.

01:32:41.780 Meghan Markle, Kathy Griffin.

01:32:43.700 That's where I send them in my mind.

01:32:45.480 The women of The View.

01:32:46.600 Rosie.

01:32:47.280 Rosie.

01:32:47.600 They could host a show on Bitch Island.

01:32:49.680 But Michelle Obama, right?

01:32:51.620 She comes from humble beginnings.

01:32:53.640 And it's always the people who say they came from humble beginnings that forget so quickly.

01:32:57.980 Like she says she grew up on the south side of Chicago.

01:33:00.360 She's a round-the-way girl.

01:33:01.560 She's Michelle from the block.

01:33:02.880 She's Michelle from the block.

01:33:03.980 But then she's like, can you believe I had to pay for my own caviar in the White House?

01:33:09.560 And I'm like, what?

01:33:10.420 People are starving.

01:33:11.400 We have an invasion at the border.

01:33:12.760 I can't even take her seriously, Michelle Obama.

01:33:14.860 But it's always this victim card.

01:33:16.660 And I think on the left, these Democratic elites have realized playing the victim card

01:33:21.160 is profitable.

01:33:22.040 It gets you views.

01:33:23.020 It gets people tuning in.

01:33:24.140 But we're just all tired of it.

01:33:25.460 We're so tired of it.

01:33:27.240 Is Katie Porter on Bitch Island?

01:33:32.080 No, I am Katie Porter's number one fan.

01:33:34.580 Now, I need her to do more interviews with the Helga Oktoberfest haircut.

01:33:39.800 I need Katie Porter.

01:33:41.340 I'm not in a position to opine on hair.

01:33:43.500 I get it.

01:33:43.800 But listen, Katie Porter, that woman, she looks like those women in the circus who could

01:33:48.220 like lift 500 pounds, Katie Porter.

01:33:51.040 He's not wrong.

01:33:51.920 Right.

01:33:52.300 So I need Katie Porter out there more.

01:33:54.000 I'm really into her.

01:33:55.140 Like, the more interviews, the better with Katie Porter, right?

01:33:57.580 Yes, 100%.

01:33:58.560 Keep her talking like Kamala Harris.

01:34:00.620 Keep her on the road every time she opens her mouth.

01:34:02.680 It's a gift.

01:34:03.400 It's a gift to us.

01:34:05.800 She might.

01:34:06.660 We have news about that.

01:34:07.380 We'll talk about it in a minute with Mark Halpern on Kamala Harris standby.

01:34:10.280 So yeah, I love Katie Porter because I, like, the funny thing for me in watching all those

01:34:14.600 clips is I understood her anger.

01:34:16.740 Like, when the staffer got in the back of the shot, you know, and was like, get out of

01:34:19.580 the fucking shot.

01:34:20.520 It was like, the person was in the shot.

01:34:23.660 I would have been like, get, Abby, get out of there.

01:34:25.440 But I would have said it lovingly, you know, harshly, but lovingly.

01:34:30.660 There's a way.

01:34:31.720 You shouldn't swear at your employees is a bad habit.

01:34:34.480 On camera.

01:34:34.940 Yeah.

01:34:35.280 But now the ex-husband's coming out on camera.

01:34:37.700 That's always bad.

01:34:38.700 The ex-husband's now coming out saying she's a master manipulator.

01:34:41.660 And now I'm like, all right, well, this is getting a little really interesting, but

01:34:44.480 also untoward because should we really be taking the ex-husband's word?

01:34:48.360 I do.

01:34:49.300 But should we be?

01:34:50.640 Oh, God.

01:34:51.220 I don't have any ex-husbands in the audience tonight, do I?

01:34:54.100 No, I don't know if we should take his word.

01:34:55.940 I heard that she poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on his head.

01:34:59.920 And that's when I knew I loved her.

01:35:01.380 When I poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on her husband's head, I said, oh, this woman's

01:35:06.520 interesting.

01:35:07.180 Allegedly.

01:35:07.760 Allegedly.

01:35:09.400 Kamala Harris, I hear you've been enjoying her book tour.

01:35:13.820 Is it just me or is Kamala Harris's book tour going longer than the campaign?

01:35:17.780 It's going longer and longer and longer.

01:35:21.380 And I have these nicknames for Kamala.

01:35:23.000 I call her Cabernet Kamala.

01:35:24.980 I call her Kamalamity.

01:35:27.000 I think the sequel.

01:35:29.260 Yeah, I think the sequel to 107 Days should be 12 Steps, maybe.

01:35:35.000 I think Bill W. could be the co-author.

01:35:37.460 And if that offended you, call your sponsor.

01:35:40.460 You could do the foreword.

01:35:41.460 Yeah, you could do the foreword.

01:35:42.780 But yeah, no, Kamala Harris, I hope this book tour continues.

01:35:45.400 I want her to run.

01:35:46.580 And what's interesting, in this book, Kamala Harris talks about choosing her running mate.

01:35:51.040 And she says, I did not choose Pete Buttigieg because he was gay.

01:35:55.880 And I thought, okay, you don't choose Pete Buttigieg because he's gay.

01:36:00.100 But then you choose Tim Walls, the gayest man in captivity.

01:36:04.100 Okay, Tim Walls, Tim Walls, Mr. Jazz Hands.

01:36:07.980 He walks into every room like Bob Fosse.

01:36:10.420 Okay, sorry to get heated.

01:36:11.940 But Tim Walls, this man with a questionable internet search history.

01:36:15.840 Okay, I was speaking to a room of gays last week.

01:36:19.980 I was speaking to a room of gay Republicans.

01:36:21.280 Room of gays.

01:36:21.600 Yeah, I said, who do you think has slept with more men?

01:36:24.900 Everyone in this room combined or Tim Walls?

01:36:27.360 Okay, there is something going on there.

01:36:30.480 And they said, we chose Tim Walls because he's the pinnacle of masculinity.

01:36:34.180 I said, no, Michelle Obama is in your party.

01:36:38.420 Not Tim Walls.

01:36:41.780 He could use a few more testosterone.

01:36:43.700 I mean, really, like the thing with the camo hat was too much.

01:36:46.200 When he couldn't load the gun.

01:36:47.520 I mean, you people down in Texas must have been horrified.

01:36:49.440 We were down in Texas, Doug and I, about a couple years ago with a bunch of friends.

01:36:53.600 And we were going to go motorbike riding, like dirt bike riding in the woods.

01:36:57.760 It was like midnight.

01:36:58.700 It was dark.

01:36:59.300 We were going up to the woods.

01:37:00.360 There were like 15 of us on these motorbikes.

01:37:02.480 And it was summer.

01:37:03.420 So everybody had on shorts and a t-shirt.

01:37:05.380 And our host looked around and he says, is anybody carrying?

01:37:08.400 I'm like, carrying?

01:37:09.220 We're wearing like tiny shirts and shirts.

01:37:11.100 Literally every man was like, I am, I am, I am, I am.

01:37:14.260 Like, I'm in Texas.

01:37:15.880 I'm not in New York anymore.

01:37:17.140 Yeah, I think some of my...

01:37:21.140 I never felt so safe in my life.

01:37:23.680 If anyone tries to F with us tonight, we got some Texas patriots in the audience.

01:37:28.420 I think we're good.

01:37:29.660 I think we're good.

01:37:30.540 God bless Texas.

01:37:31.760 Don't mess with it.

01:37:32.640 Although they are trying to mess with it.

01:37:34.140 What's with Austin?

01:37:35.580 Oh.

01:37:36.940 Yeah.

01:37:37.820 Yeah.

01:37:39.640 I don't get it.

01:37:40.740 I see my MAGA ladies on the front row right here.

01:37:43.580 I got my Trump ladies.

01:37:44.480 Now, who did you vote for in the Trump hat?

01:37:47.160 I love it.

01:37:48.700 I mean, we did get Jasmine Crockett.

01:37:51.300 Oh, y'all heard of this woman, Jasmine Crockett?

01:37:55.480 Okay.

01:37:57.260 Jasmine Crockett, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point.

01:38:02.560 I mean, she's become one of the most uncouth and articulate women in politics.

01:38:06.680 And it's all a caricature.

01:38:07.860 It's all a facade with Jasmine Crockett.

01:38:10.980 When you look up her background, right?

01:38:12.240 She grew up in St. Louis.

01:38:13.560 She went to private school.

01:38:14.700 She says she passed the bar exam.

01:38:17.080 I don't know if she was sitting at a bar or if she actually passed the bar exam.

01:38:21.160 I would like to see proof.

01:38:21.980 Yeah.

01:38:22.320 She says she's an attorney, Jasmine Crockett.

01:38:24.800 You pull up these old videos of her.

01:38:26.620 She's talking like Eliza Doolittle or Queen Elizabeth.

01:38:29.220 She's like, how do you do?

01:38:30.660 Would you like crumpets and scones?

01:38:32.760 You look up Jasmine Crockett now.

01:38:34.380 She's like, this mofo crack-a-lacka-checka-pooka-pooka-pooka-pooka.

01:38:38.400 What the hell happened to Jasmine Crockett?

01:38:40.960 This is identity theft, okay?

01:38:42.880 Identity theft.

01:38:43.820 But the Democrats.

01:38:45.040 Okay.

01:38:45.200 This is why I can't stand the Democrats.

01:38:46.620 We got some characters on the right.

01:38:48.280 We love Trump.

01:38:49.040 We've got big personalities.

01:38:50.440 But the Democrats are a bunch of overgrown theater kids.

01:38:53.420 They don't want to work.

01:38:54.600 They want to twerk and post dancing videos and sing.

01:38:57.700 And the Democrats in D.C., okay, they're always breaking into song on the Capitol Steps.

01:39:02.180 Yes.

01:39:02.440 They're running and dancing. They remind me of that show Glee. Remember that show Glee where

01:39:06.160 they're running and singing and dancing and there's no plot? That is the Democrat party.

01:39:09.980 The rapid response choir. Nothing terrifies Trump more than the rapid response choir.

01:39:16.440 No. And you've got all these beta males like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Cory Booker. It

01:39:21.420 is beta male, beta male, beta male. Speaking of Cory Booker, what did the gays say about Cory

01:39:25.980 Booker? Well, my lawyer has told me not to opine on that tonight. He was knocking on my dressing

01:39:33.440 room door. Remember those engagement photos that hit of him and his fiance? We're joyful. We're

01:39:42.200 definitely really in love. I was going to say they look like Michelle and Barack's engagement

01:39:46.920 photos. So maybe it's true love. Unclear. All right. So I did read in my, in my,

01:39:55.980 you know, avid following of spot on that, um, you are really happy for George Clooney,

01:40:00.780 who has found Italy just too tough an environment in which to raise his children at Lake Como is

01:40:06.100 really unfortunate, I guess. And now has moved to France because he wants his kids to grow up in a

01:40:11.980 place that's not obsessed with celebrity culture. Absolutely, Megan. And I know this will resonate

01:40:16.820 with a lot of folks in the audience tonight. People in Texas, Arizona, Florida, they talk about this all

01:40:21.400 the time. These liberals in states like California, they vote for every democratic candidate. They

01:40:27.040 shill for Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris. The second those policies come home to roost and they've got

01:40:32.300 homelessness and crime running amok on the streets, they flee. They move to red states and then they

01:40:37.540 bring their policies to the red states. You're fleeing these blue states to come to red states and

01:40:41.880 you're bringing the same policies. We've had it. Okay. We've had it. Yeah. And that's with George

01:40:45.820 Clooney as well. Completely agree. He's such a charlatan. He's dying to be a journalist. He's

01:40:51.720 not a journalist. He's got a lot of thoughts about journalism. He of the left. He wants to be hailed

01:40:55.520 as a hero because he wrote that one op-ed telling Joe Biden to drop out after the debate when we all

01:41:00.280 knew he was totally infirm. He's like, aha, I have a big reveal for you. We're like, we already saw the

01:41:04.760 end of this movie. No, Megan, these Democrats got kudos and bona fides for saying, you know,

01:41:09.940 Joe Biden might be in decline. And this is like fall of 2024. The Mars Rover could see that Joe

01:41:15.560 Biden was in decline. Okay. Like these Democrats are writing op-eds. Y'all are so brave. Oh,

01:41:21.020 you're just so brave calling out Joe Biden. I'm like, the guy is non-compass mentis. He's walking

01:41:25.500 off into bushes. We can see with our own eyes what's happening. Yes. We did not need George

01:41:29.840 Clooney's op-ed. Now the one person I think it would be the worst. I mean, like I would work for

01:41:36.500 Katie Porter before I'd work for this person has to be Meghan Markle. She literally just lost her

01:41:45.360 10th head of publicity in, I think it's three years since she opened her little as ever business

01:41:53.380 or whatever she's calling it these days. She cannot keep a staff. All of the people writing

01:41:57.880 bios on her talk about what a nightmare she is, how nasty she is. She's smart enough not to get

01:42:01.700 caught on camera. Get out of there. You fucking bitch. She's smart enough not to do that. Like

01:42:06.240 Katie Porter, but she's apparently even meaner than her because she cannot keep anyone in her

01:42:11.740 employ. And she continues to try to mislead us into believing she's got this Netflix series deal,

01:42:17.160 even though season two was a fake. It was just an extension of season one that she tried to spin

01:42:21.140 as a second season. And now she's trying to spin what's been changed into like, and we want a third

01:42:26.200 season into, we'll take a first look as low as though that's a, like a victory, like a promotion.

01:42:31.240 No, first look is like, well, you can tell them that we've made you a first look deal.

01:42:35.260 No, Meghan Markle, these two little hucksters over in Montecito, I cannot stand them. Okay. I call her

01:42:41.260 the Duchess of Scamalot, the Duchess of White Castle. And my thing with Meghan Markle is this.

01:42:46.940 She is still dining out on her Royal Highness title. She's been gone six years. You know what

01:42:52.540 I'm saying? She's still dining out to sell her jams, jellies, and dog biscuits and whatever other

01:42:57.000 crap she's selling. But my thing with Meghan Markle is this. I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

01:43:01.860 There are so many of us who are excited. This American girl is going to marry this ginger prince,

01:43:06.680 the most eligible bachelor on earth. She goes in there. She can't stand it, but more than six

01:43:11.620 months. They abscond to the US and in the queen's final dying days, what does she do? She goes and

01:43:17.120 accuses them all of racism. She shanks them. She stabs them in the back and they welcomed her with

01:43:22.440 open arms. So I will never respect Meghan Markle for that. That's not how you treat people who welcomed

01:43:26.700 you with open arms. Right. I gave you a life and a career. Come on. She's not a good person.

01:43:31.600 How long do we give that marriage? Oh God, maybe 45 more minutes. We'll check after the show.

01:43:36.880 It's not going to be long. All right. So tell us a little bit about you, Link, because

01:43:39.860 your political rise has been rapid and really impressive. And it was because the RFKJ campaign

01:43:47.420 found you, right? It was your own talents that got you noticed. Well, thank you. And can I just say,

01:43:51.960 I'm on stage with Megyn Kelly right now. This is really cool.

01:43:55.500 I was on her show the first time one year ago this month. Okay. And they passed on me. Megan

01:44:03.380 might not even know this. I had people reaching out. Hey, you guys should have Link. I would send

01:44:07.480 cold emails. I said, if we can meet, we will hit it off. So be tenacious people out there because

01:44:13.100 now I'm on the tour. I did not know that. So I know that obviously you were Miss Arizona.

01:44:19.540 Yeah. Hello. Nicely done. Very, very top selection. And that you were a business woman in New York

01:44:28.340 when you first got interested in Turning Point. So what were you doing in New York?

01:44:32.420 So to go back a little bit further, I mean, right now, first and foremost, I'm a daughter to the king,

01:44:40.620 to the most high. That's the most important title, if you will. And my husband,

01:44:50.860 in August, before all this happened, he had a event where he had some donors at. And one of the first

01:45:01.940 questions they asked was, God forbid, if something happens to you, like, what would happen next to

01:45:12.740 Turning Point? And Charlie made a really interesting point. He said, companies, you know, example,

01:45:19.860 Apple, Apple, Macintosh, he said, they're founder-led. He said, but what I have built is, will one day,

01:45:32.120 if I'm not around, be vision-led? And he had made mention at the end, like, you know, Erica will do a

01:45:38.620 great job running it. And when I watched that video this week, it really put into perspective

01:45:45.500 my youth and what I went through growing up and what I witnessed, you know, my mom having her own

01:45:54.900 company and being a single mother and watching her be the blueprint of, you know, I'm not afraid of

01:46:03.580 raising my children alone because I saw my mom do that. I'm not afraid of being a CEO because I saw my

01:46:11.560 mom do that. The only thing that I fear to be fully transparent with you is being out of the

01:46:18.080 alignment of God's will, because I feel like that is a very dangerous position to be in. And so for me,

01:46:25.840 growing up, when I was in New York, it was one of those moments where I really trusted God. That's

01:46:33.480 where I needed to be. I prayed on it at first because originally I was living in LA. And I said,

01:46:39.380 Lord, if this is where you need me to be, make it so clear. Bought a one-way ticket to New York.

01:46:45.080 One suitcase, my mom was like, what are you going to do when you're there? I was like,

01:46:48.380 I'll figure it out once I get there. I just know that's where the Lord needs me.

01:46:51.940 And so many people questioned that. They said, you're such a strong Christian. Why would you go

01:46:56.320 to such a dark city? And I said, the more that you take the light out of a dark place, the darker it

01:47:02.280 gets. So that's where I'm going. And I was there.

01:47:06.140 Yeah. But when I moved to New York, my brother said, why would you want to move to New York? And

01:47:11.560 I said, it's the big city of dreams. And he said, scary, nasty, wake up in the middle of the night,

01:47:16.140 screaming dreams. So I get it. But so you were working in New York for a while and then you went

01:47:23.240 back to Arizona to apply for the turning point job. So I was in New York. I was a casting director.

01:47:31.080 I was assigned with a modeling agency. I had just gotten my real estate license three months prior

01:47:38.760 to meeting Charlie and rewind a little bit. I went to turning points office opening for their first

01:47:48.540 building. And Tyler was, he runs turning point action now. And he said, you need to meet the CEO.

01:47:58.500 I said, okay, great. Met him very quickly, shook his hand, said, hi, nice to meet you. Neither of us

01:48:04.280 thought anything of it. Looking back now, he apparently sat down with Tyler and said, we need

01:48:10.520 to hire her. Tyler said, we need to hire her. And he goes, mm-hmm. And he's like, where'd she live?

01:48:16.820 And Tyler said, New York. He's like, okay, I'm going to have a Fox News hit. And then I'm going to sit

01:48:22.220 down with her and interview her in New York. So lo and behold, he comes to Manhattan. And I thought

01:48:29.920 I was so career minded. My mother raised me to, and this is why I can relate a lot to

01:48:39.300 the Manhattan mindset of a lot of young women where it's career oriented. Because my mom used

01:48:48.380 to tell me, don't feel like you need to rely on a man for life and work. And so my mindset,

01:48:58.120 my healthy marriage example was my grandparents. But my mindset was career, career, career.

01:49:06.960 When I met Charlie, the only reason I sat down with him, because I thought it was a consulting

01:49:12.480 position for work. I was not thinking, I did not date in Manhattan. I saw the pits of hell

01:49:18.180 of the dating pool through my roommates. And I was not touching that with any longest pole

01:49:25.420 you can imagine. I stayed far away from the dating pool in Manhattan. So I viewed it as

01:49:31.340 obviously the job interview that it was supposed to be. And the Lord knew. I just, Charlie, in

01:49:39.040 some way, similar to how, you know, he sees things in a lot of people, in some way, beautifully

01:49:47.420 saved me from a huge mistake of putting career over family and career over husband. Because

01:49:57.640 it's easy to do when, as a female, when you see bright lights, big city. But he, the Lord

01:50:06.180 used him. The Lord used him. How long did it take you to fall in love

01:50:09.340 with him? He, that's the funny thing is it was, it's so interesting because when we were

01:50:18.640 sitting there, I fell in love with how brilliant he was to be able to articulate what he believed

01:50:26.620 in. And when he said, I'm not going to hire you, I'm going to date you. I knew that was

01:50:34.120 the Lord because there were so many times where I said, my future husband that's out

01:50:40.840 there, he will literally, it will be, the only reason why I look up is because the Lord

01:50:46.680 says to look up. And that was something to look up to when someone's like, I'm going

01:50:50.020 to date you. And so I just, but honestly, it was the constant consistency of, I'm here

01:50:58.880 for you. You know, the little texts in the morning and then it just continued to grow

01:51:03.980 in a beautiful way. So yes, love at first sight. Yes, obviously. But I, again, my mindset

01:51:09.600 wasn't there. His was. So you think of it, you're in an interview, you have to totally

01:51:13.640 do a 180 of a mindset. But I honestly, where like the depths of the love started was when

01:51:20.620 we were playing basketball together at the gym, just shooting around together.

01:51:24.720 By the time we saw that video where he introduced you as his fiance and the two of you were staring

01:51:31.020 at each other. Oh, I was upset. I'm still obsessed with him.

01:51:34.480 Not break your gaze. I mean, that, that's, I think as the kids would say, hashtag goals

01:51:38.780 for virtually everybody who wants love in their life. So you, you did get married.

01:51:43.880 Yes. You have two kids, two precious babies.

01:51:47.100 Yes. And you told me this in private, but how many kids did you guys want to have?

01:51:53.660 We wanted to have four. Yeah. And I was praying to God that I was pregnant when he got murdered.

01:52:04.320 Oh, wow. I thought of that once. Just like whether it was meant to be or whether we'd,

01:52:10.980 I know, we'd get news like that. I was like, oh goodness, that would be the ultimate blessing

01:52:16.020 out of this catastrophe. Um, so now when I see young couples, I tell them, please, like,

01:52:25.540 don't put it off. Especially if you're a young woman, don't put it off. You can always have a

01:52:31.780 career. You can always, you know, go back to work. You can never just go back to having children.

01:52:39.820 And they grow so fast and so quickly, but I just, I was praying. Both of us were, we were

01:52:47.740 really excited to just expand our family. Thank God you have the two. I know. Thank God. You

01:52:53.160 know, I know one day they'll find out right now. They're just, you know, little loves. And one day

01:52:58.740 they'll find out that they're Charlie Kirk's children and they'll know what that means.

01:53:04.180 So I wanted to ask you, Erica, because you are so faithful, whether you, you had any premonition

01:53:20.700 that something was going to happen to Charlie, because I really do see you as connected more

01:53:26.360 so than the average, than the rest of us to God. And I just wondered, did you have any sort of a

01:53:31.660 feeling? We always, we see the thing is, is that I guess we just operate differently. We always knew

01:53:39.460 there were threats. We always knew that there were people out there that hated us with deep, deep

01:53:47.820 passion of hate, but it didn't scare us. Never. He was never afraid of that. Neither was I. Obviously

01:53:56.240 we protect our children. You know, we, we don't show their faces on the internet. So that's very

01:54:01.580 intentional, but I think we lived our life in such a way where if that was our last day, it was our

01:54:11.000 last day. Like we always lived as if it was the last day. That's why Charlie's speeches were so good

01:54:16.100 because he didn't know if that was going to be his last speech. And he was so intentional about

01:54:24.740 every word. Every word had a meaning and, and every speech had a connection point for the students

01:54:35.640 and for whoever he was speaking to. And that's why he never missed the opportunity to weave the gospel

01:54:40.380 into what he was saying. Yes. That's what made him so much more powerful, powerful than the rest of us.

01:54:44.500 Yeah. If you see the difference between Charlie Kirk and many of, you know, the right-wing pundits

01:54:49.140 or commentators, it's that he supercharged the message that the rest of us were saying

01:54:54.460 with biblical references, with faith-based wisdom, which made it 10 times more powerful. And people

01:55:01.340 knew it. You know, it's one of the things we're all missing right now. But, but to answer your

01:55:06.780 question, um, you know, we, we always knew there were threats. We always knew that that

01:55:11.660 could be a possibility. Um, but obviously, you know, but we never lived in fear of when

01:55:21.420 that day would be. We just trusted the Lord every day.

01:55:25.840 Okay. You know, now, of course, in the wake of Charlie's death, many are living under threat. I

01:55:32.280 mean, the, the, the nutcases have gotten very loud and, and emboldened. And I just wonder

01:55:38.220 whether it was the kind of threat like environment that you needed to actually worry that something

01:55:43.860 could happen. Or was it just the din of like, there are haters out there. You get these nutcase

01:55:48.220 letters sometimes, you know, what was it something like, no, it's actually getting really serious

01:55:53.300 and we need to worry. Or was it just the din of like, no, I mean, you would see, obviously

01:55:59.320 leading up to that, there was several shootings, there was several individuals with guns on campus.

01:56:04.460 So you, you knew that the threat was there and things were starting to heat up. But again,

01:56:10.540 it wasn't anything that, um, you know, you would think any different.

01:56:15.900 Acute.

01:56:16.380 No, no.

01:56:17.220 I know that the morning he died, he went back into your room. He had slept in your daughter's

01:56:22.600 room because he got up in the middle of the night and she got up in the middle of the

01:56:25.320 night and there was a switcheroo.

01:56:26.100 They all got snacks.

01:56:26.840 We've all been there.

01:56:27.740 Yeah.

01:56:28.440 But he came back into your room and he got his necklace and he got his wedding ring,

01:56:31.920 right?

01:56:32.120 In the morning.

01:56:32.500 And his necklace had a cross on it and it had St. Michael's medal.

01:56:37.080 Yeah. I wear it every day. It's right here.

01:56:39.780 Wow. Oh, it's so beautiful.

01:56:42.400 Yeah.

01:56:43.680 And Erica, I, help me understand. I, I genuinely don't understand. I've asked Frank Turek this,

01:56:49.220 I've asked everyone I can ask this question. I don't understand how you can be wearing

01:56:53.820 your cross and your St. Michael's medal and be shot to death. I feel as Charlie felt that

01:57:00.440 that's a, that's armor. You know, we wear that to protect us and we believe God will

01:57:05.500 protect us. How have you squared that?

01:57:07.920 The Lord is so powerful and we're not meant to understand all of his ways, but there's mercy

01:57:24.860 in that, knowing that God uses evil for good. I don't know what exactly that is,

01:57:34.020 but I do know that the Lord will use it. And if that means revival, the Lord, I, I, I told

01:57:47.520 people, I said, I have never found more comfort in the statement that I will be done.

01:57:53.220 Explain that. Why?

01:57:54.140 Because it shows that control is an absolute illusion.

01:58:02.560 The Lord knows the number of hairs on our head and he knows the number of our days.

01:58:10.520 And that's why Charlie was so intentional of making sure everyone knew that their role in

01:58:15.660 life was so important and that you guys are all the missing puzzle piece to,

01:58:21.140 to this whole story. And we used to explain it when we would have dinner sometimes about

01:58:30.120 how when you look at a tapestry on one side, you see all of these hanging threads and it

01:58:36.800 doesn't make any sense. They're all different colored threads all over the place. But when

01:58:41.960 you turn that tapestry around, you see how beautifully woven together and how intentional every thread

01:58:50.080 of God is to that tapestry. And yes, I fully believe that you put on the full armor of God

01:58:59.620 every single day. I mean, henceforth, all of my bracelets and rings, like everything has meaning

01:59:05.080 to me. And that's why I always wear my bracelets, always wear my rings, always wear my, my necklaces.

01:59:10.740 And it's one of those things where we will never understand God's ways fully. We're not meant to.

01:59:21.120 We wouldn't be, our mortal brains would not be able to even compute what he has designed and put

01:59:29.860 together. Um, but what I do know is that the Lord spoke through Charlie in so many ways

01:59:41.540 and I still feel so deeply connected to him. Yeah. And I know that the Lord used such evil

01:59:54.920 to bring about something that will eventually come to good. It's already started. I've seen it.

02:00:08.740 I am a big believer in signs. You know, I think when you lose somebody, if you ask for a sign,

02:00:15.120 do you guys believe in signs? Have you gotten any from him? You know, it's so interesting. When we first

02:00:22.520 started dating, this is personal, but I share it only because maybe it'll be a sign for you to know

02:00:31.000 that Charlie's with you and something. Um, when we first started dating, we would walk, we were

02:00:37.420 walking to dinner one night and this happened a lot. The lights would start to flicker and he'd look

02:00:43.820 up at the light and be like, you know, it's so weird. This happens to me a lot. And I was like, really?

02:00:47.260 And he's like, yeah. So our whole dating and whole marriage, anytime we'd be a room and a light started

02:00:53.980 to flicker, he would just look at me and wink. It was like our little thing. It's power.

02:00:58.780 Yeah. It's a total frequency thing. And so the night everything happened when we were in Utah,

02:01:07.580 I was in a hotel room by myself, um, in the, one of the bedroom portion by myself and the bathroom light

02:01:14.200 was on and it just was a strobe light all night, just flicker. And I was like, part of me couldn't

02:01:21.400 sleep because it was a strobe light. The other part of me couldn't sleep because of how just my world

02:01:25.800 has just crumbled. And the other part of me couldn't sleep. Cause I was like, baby, I feel you.

02:01:29.480 I know you're here. Um, so that was, you know, some signs, but another sign too, is just my,

02:01:36.280 my daughter, you know, just saying little things and like, okay, I see you. Is she starting to get it?

02:01:43.240 Um, I, yes and no. I, we talk, I make, I, we talk about heaven. I make it really exciting.

02:01:57.120 Um, I tell her daddy had so much fun today. Everyone who has written letters and sent gifts

02:02:03.640 to my children. Thank you. I tell her my son, he's only a year and a half, but I tell both of them,

02:02:10.100 um, um, daddy is telling all of his friends to send you gifts and letters. And, you know,

02:02:18.240 daddy is orchestrating from heaven to make sure that you always feel so loved. And the other day

02:02:24.040 she was like, tell me about daddy's day in heaven. So just, we talk about that at night. And then

02:02:29.860 sometimes I'll say, well, tell me what you think he did in heaven today. And, um, we just, I just try

02:02:35.740 to make it exciting because it is, it is, heaven is, heaven's our home. And so I just want her to

02:02:46.040 know that daddy is having so much fun and building a place for her and our family in heaven.

02:02:53.180 How do you, yeah. I know that you haven't watched the video and you shouldn't watch the video and

02:03:06.120 you don't ever watch that video and you don't want the kids to watch the video. Yeah. But

02:03:10.460 how do you, how are you going to handle it when they get older, Erica, and they start to learn

02:03:13.920 about the haters, right? Cause there does have to come a time where that needs to be put in the

02:03:19.100 proper perspective. Charlie was so tough. He, it was hard to get him rattled about these attacks,

02:03:27.340 but, and I can speak to this, having, having my own children, two of whom are backstage,

02:03:33.660 you know, there comes a time where you have to sort of help your kids understand the terrible

02:03:38.700 negative messages that are out there about someone they deeply love. How, have you thought

02:03:44.280 about that at all? Like how are you going to walk them into that? You know, it's, I've first and

02:03:50.660 foremost want my children to have a childhood. Um, so that's another reason why I don't put them on

02:03:54.820 the internet. Uh, it's another reason why I don't expose them to certain screen time. Um, I've said

02:04:01.200 it before, some of the shows that the only shows that would watch is Charlie, uh, Bob Ross, cause he

02:04:07.660 has a very nap inducing voice. And then, uh, you know, every now and then it would be some of Charlie's

02:04:14.960 events, but I want them to be children first. And I want to teach them so much about God and Jesus

02:04:25.360 so that when they do get older and they do see the hate, they also understand how much good is still

02:04:32.840 out there. And they also understand that they could be the antidote to the evil. Um, and they

02:04:40.680 can pray for those people and not be afraid. I'd never want them to be afraid, but I want them to

02:04:47.200 also see that that evil is because they or their parents or their loved ones is actually doing

02:04:54.960 something to make a difference. Because if, if you're not getting attacked or slandered or

02:05:02.320 whatever else out there, you're just looking a lot like the rest of the world. And I would want them

02:05:09.760 to know that that's okay. You know, I, I have been called so many names. I have been slandered and

02:05:19.240 none of that means anything to me. It's all just noise. Um, crazy. It's unbelievable. Watching

02:05:27.480 people turn on you has been one of the most unexpected, strange, terrible things. And I

02:05:35.440 know you get this cause you have a very, you have a thick skin and a soft heart. The thing is, is that

02:05:41.360 the more that people, and it gets outlandish more and more crazy as, as time goes on because there's

02:05:47.320 just a void that apparently needs to be filled. But I'm okay with the world not understanding me.

02:05:54.880 I'm okay with that. I'm okay with, with they, you know, I, I don't want to look like the world.

02:06:04.720 We're, we're, as Christians, we're called to be in the world, not of it. And if they could understand

02:06:10.100 me, then I'm not doing something right. That's well said.

02:06:17.320 Okay. Forgive me. Did you see people didn't understand the hug that you and JD had?

02:06:23.140 They, they went to the weirdest places, Erica. Oh my gosh, you guys, please. So for those of you

02:06:30.280 who know me, I never, I, I'm a very, I love, I hug is like, whoever is like hating on a hug

02:06:39.040 needs a hug themselves. I will give you a free hug. Anytime you want to hug. My love language is touch

02:06:45.940 if you will, but seriously that hug. So I will give you a play by play walking. They just played

02:06:52.860 the emotional video. I'm walking over. He's walking over. I'm starting to cry. He says,

02:06:59.320 he's so proud of you. And I say, God bless you. And I touched the back of his head.

02:07:04.140 And anyone who have, I've hugged that I have touched the back of your head. When I hug

02:07:08.660 you, I always say, God bless you. That's just me. If you want to take that out of context,

02:07:14.860 go right ahead. Again, that to me shows that you need a hug more than anyone else. Um, so

02:07:19.980 if anyone, they were acting like you touched the back of his ass.

02:07:23.640 I feel like I wouldn't get as much hate if I did that versus, but no, seriously. So

02:07:31.200 now when I go and hug people, I'll bring them back in and be like, I obviously didn't give

02:07:34.580 you the right hug. Like, come, let me touch the back of your head. Let's go. I don't know

02:07:38.180 what to do with my hands. Can't touch the head. What can I touch? I know. Not me. I'm always

02:07:43.240 like, if you touch the back of my head, I'm like, oh, she's feeling the extensions. Damn.

02:07:48.720 That's another thing. People think my hair is fake. It is very real.

02:07:51.820 My hairstylist told me your hair is real. She was like, oh no, that's all real.

02:07:55.680 This is real. I've had some women, they like come and touch the back of my head. I'm like,

02:08:00.360 what are you doing? They're feeling for the weave. They're patting the weave.

02:08:05.340 I know. How is that real? Have you just been growing it out your whole life?

02:08:10.980 We want to know. My mother. Okay. So I was, I loved sports growing up. I was the,

02:08:19.580 my, I started playing basketball when I was five. My first coach, he was Charles Barkley

02:08:26.700 of all people, which is amazing to have as your five-year-old YMCA coach.

02:08:32.420 Good to see you with your little Charles Barkley doll.

02:08:34.860 No, it was great. He's an awesome man. His daughter was, was a dear friend. Um,

02:08:38.940 and so I loved sports and my mom, I was swimming all the time. I was always super active. And since

02:08:46.580 my mom worked, um, I was always at the boys and girls club always. And I was the last kid to get

02:08:54.680 picked up from the boys and girls club every single day. And the poor counselor or whatever

02:08:59.200 you want to call him that had to stand with me at waiting for my mom to pick me up every day.

02:09:03.240 I, I, I loved sports. I loved basketball so much. It was such a good escape for me as a, as a child.

02:09:11.420 And, and I remember my hair from swimming was so ratted because I have very coarse hair and my mom

02:09:19.960 hated combing my hair. And so her solution was a bowl cut straight across traumatizing to this point.

02:09:30.620 My hairdresser knows when we get a trim, it is literally like a fraction of my hair.

02:09:38.860 I will never have hair shorter than my shoulders. Charlie loved my hair though. He, he just,

02:09:44.000 he loved how long it was.

02:09:45.580 So what you're saying is you have long, thick, coarse hair that takes you a while to grow out

02:09:50.140 and take care of. And you're not black or named Michelle Obama, which is fascinating. That can

02:09:56.460 happen with all the conspiracy theories out there. I'm not going to touch that one either.

02:10:00.120 Hopefully you haven't been paying too much attention to the news cycle, but they know what

02:10:05.820 I'm talking about. No, but the, the, my hair to get back to that is something that, um, I just,

02:10:13.220 I, it was, I'm not going to cut it. I'm not going to, you know, he liked it. He liked it. He liked it

02:10:19.420 long and here we are. And, but my mom, if you ask my mom, she'll tell you it's when you,

02:10:27.440 she grew up from the standpoint of a Lebanese Italian background and you're supposed to shave

02:10:32.580 your kid's head when they're two. And then it's supposed to grow back really thick after that.

02:10:37.520 I was a product of the shaved head. So if you would like to try that on your two-year-old

02:10:41.580 unsolicited advice, does it work on the 55 year old?

02:10:45.240 I have no idea. You guys tell me. I don't know. Am I going to try? You know, you raised the issue

02:10:51.220 of the girls. If you see us shaved head by December, you know why. Oh yeah. We all look

02:10:56.140 like Britney Spears. The headline, well, they went full skinhead. Right. Yeah. And are listening

02:11:00.220 to Nick Quintus. That's the last thing. That'll be. Yeah. It's a no. Yeah. Um, while we're on the

02:11:06.800 subject, because you really were a very strong female athlete. Can I ask you your position on that?

02:11:11.980 Because no. Yeah. Yeah. Like, because this is obviously a dominant thing. We had Megan Rapinoe

02:11:16.600 in the news just this week saying people are, they don't really mean it. They don't actually

02:11:20.340 have an objection to men playing in women's sports. They're just using it like as an issue.

02:11:24.400 She made all her money. She's sitting pretty, but she wants your daughter to play against boys.

02:11:28.940 Your thoughts on it. So, well, you can take this as a twofold. So if you're looking at it from

02:11:38.420 the sports angle where you're playing up against men, I mean, I know this has been said before,

02:11:48.860 but then what's the point of female sports? But to me, being an addict, I played in college.

02:11:56.820 I worked so hard for that scholarship. I knew my strengths as a point guard. I hated driving the

02:12:05.240 plane. Always. I always shot the three. That was like my thing. I'm not driving to have someone

02:12:10.860 who's like six, seven, just pat. This is not happening. Oh, she said it.

02:12:14.640 So for me, sports has a very special place in my heart. But as a mom now and watching my daughter

02:12:29.980 compete, it's just, I know they say, you know, life isn't fair. I get that. Life's not fair.

02:12:39.260 But there's certain things that are really special. And women's sports is one of them. And it's really,

02:12:49.160 some people look down on it. Some people think it's not. But you know, those girls have worked

02:12:53.240 so hard for their position. And to have it taken away from them by someone who couldn't rank in their

02:13:01.020 own sport than field, it's demoralizing. And it also weighs on the whole topic of being a woman,

02:13:13.920 being proud to be a woman, being proud to be a strong female athlete. And I wouldn't want that

02:13:19.060 taken away from anybody. That's right. Having the glorious chance of accomplishment. I mean,

02:13:23.480 we'll never win if we're playing against biological boys. We'll never have that glorious feeling of

02:13:28.480 crossing the finish line first or being the one who has the game winning shot because it's always

02:13:32.940 going to go to a man. It's just one of the basic things. They always talk about the unfairness of

02:13:36.720 it and the safety of it. But just think about that, like the glorious feeling of winning, which I never

02:13:41.500 had because I wasn't an athlete. But you had it. I don't know. I feel like politics somewhat is form of

02:13:47.220 a athletic feat. So it's, you know, I had it like when Don Lemon got fired. It's, it depends.

02:13:56.160 That was your moment. Yeah. You know, we all look for our moments. Yeah, we feel good.

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02:16:38.440 prepared to defend. I want to ask you about the book that you're holding in your hands. Yes, Charlie's

02:16:43.880 book. I took the dust cover off because I carry his book everywhere. Stop in the name of God. It's coming

02:16:49.240 out soon. Charlie's coming out with a book. Yeah. He's coming out with a book. Stop in the name of

02:16:55.580 God, which is a great title. Stop in the name of God. And what is it about? It took him a year and a

02:16:59.420 half to write it. And this book, I mean, when I'm reading it, I'm like, I did not even know you knew

02:17:06.600 that. It is so powerful. Overarching theme of it is the power of honoring the Sabbath and the

02:17:15.620 importance of rest. And reading this, and I even brought one of his journals with me to read out of

02:17:22.580 it because the thing that's so interesting about reading this book and reading this journal, and I

02:17:27.940 know a lot of you that are Christians will understand this, they tell you that when you read the Bible,

02:17:32.820 it's the living word of God, and it is. And you see the Lord in technicolor when you read the Bible and

02:17:41.920 you actually understand those words. And so for me, reading Charlie's journals and reading this book,

02:17:53.260 it's like he's, I mean, he's still, he's present with the Lord, but it feels like he's still fully here.

02:18:00.600 And that's what's so powerful about this book. And I watched him as a wife completely transform

02:18:08.380 into an already, I mean, he was already amazing and incredible, but I totally elevated him when he

02:18:16.100 was honoring the Sabbath and when he really took that seriously, that time to rest seriously. And

02:18:22.640 I just can't help but think, like everything, and to go to your point of signs, I don't think

02:18:30.520 anything is by coincidence, but to have this be his last book and to him totally master what it means

02:18:40.820 to rest with the Lord, it's all full circle now because it's the ultimate Sabbath where he is right

02:18:46.920 When did you get to read it? When? Yeah. As much as I can, driving into the office or...

02:18:52.500 No, but I mean, was it written in its entirety before Charlie died? Yes. It was. Yes, it was. He finished

02:18:58.240 writing this, I believe, in July, June or July of this year. So you had read it? Mm-hmm. But to read it in a

02:19:06.560 book format and not an email format that he would send me is... Something. Night and day difference, yeah.

02:19:12.060 What are the pages that are folded over? The one that I, well, all of them are amazing, but the one

02:19:16.440 that I wanted to read was the part about sleeping because Charlie, his adrenaline was always going

02:19:25.260 and it was very hard for him to turn his brain off at night, henceforth snacks at like 2 a.m.

02:19:31.200 Didn't you tell me olives and bananas? Not together, not together, but you know. But he was like

02:19:36.960 even snacking in a healthy manner. He was snacking. Almonds, yeah. Also, we do have to discuss the fact

02:19:41.980 that you said he only had mint chocolate chip ice cream once a year. Twice. His birthday and 4th of

02:19:47.900 July. 4th of July and his birthday, right? And no ice cream any other day? His self-control and

02:19:53.620 self-discipline was phenomenal. And to the point, too, where when I was pregnant, 70% of the reason why

02:20:00.760 no one saw me when I was pregnant was because of this situation. The other 30% was because I just

02:20:06.340 was with my babies. But 70% of it was, I'm really hungry. I think I, should I have a milkshake? Baby,

02:20:14.540 get that milkshake. But I don't know if I should have that milkshake. You need the milkshake. I'm

02:20:18.940 going to go and get you that milkshake. Do you want a hot fudge sundae too? I'm going to get that.

02:20:22.180 And an out burger? No questions. I'll be right back. Animal style. So he'd come home. He loved it

02:20:28.140 because he loved driving around at night. So he'd come home with the In-N-Out burger, animal style,

02:20:33.000 protein style, whatever, mixed in with the hot fudge sundae, the chocolate shake. And he would

02:20:37.340 be so excited to give it to me and watch me eat it. But that was because he was living vicariously

02:20:42.780 through me. So no joke, I got to like 190 pounds. I was like, I am literally going to weigh more than

02:20:49.640 you by the end of this pregnancy. And he'd be like, baby, you look great. You look, don't worry about

02:20:54.560 that. That's just baby weight. I mean, granted, it does go away. It takes a lot of work.

02:20:57.980 He's just watching me. And I'm like, I will enjoy this hot fudge sundae while you wish that you

02:21:04.660 could have. But he was so self-disciplined and he was so good about eating. He was biohacking was

02:21:11.060 his love language of being healthy, eating clean. He could not operate on fast food the way that he

02:21:17.760 was in general. Like that's why he never drank. That's why he never, it wasn't from, you know,

02:21:22.820 a motive of I'm better than whoever. It was from the motive of, I need to operate as if I'm going

02:21:29.000 to war every single day. And I can't operate on this type of food. And speaking of the sleep,

02:21:36.000 that's very. Right. So the sleep was important because I was like, he, he loved his sleep.

02:21:40.840 And something that I was very intentional about was when he came home, I would always let him sleep in

02:21:47.040 always on the weekends. I would take the kids, go for a walk, whatever it took. And I would want him

02:21:52.080 to wake up when it was time to wake up. Cause I knew how important rest was for him. And so when I

02:21:56.780 read this in the book, I just, it was on my heart to share it with you. Um, cause it, the title of it

02:22:02.600 says, Jesus slept, Elijah slept, and so can you. And he said, so start tonight, close the laptop,

02:22:11.080 power down the phone, let the dishes wait, pull the shades, dim the lights, and give your body

02:22:19.080 permission to do what it was created to do to rest. Let your bed become an altar of trust as your head

02:22:25.900 touches the pillow and whisper to God, I release it all to you. You don't need to check one more email.

02:22:33.160 You don't need to prove anything. You don't need to carry the weight of the world. It already has a

02:22:37.360 savior. And it's not you sleep is not a distraction from your purpose. It is part of your purpose.

02:22:44.300 It is a sacred rhythm that restores your mind, heals your body and quiets your soul.

02:22:49.860 The Sabbath is your weekly reminder that you are not a machine. You are a beloved child and children

02:22:56.780 sleep well when they know their father is near. So go ahead, embrace the gift, make your Sabbath a day,

02:23:04.520 not just of rest, but of sleep, deep, joyful, and replenishing sleep. You're allowed. And more

02:23:11.680 than that, you're invited. Rest isn't weakness, it's worship. And tomorrow will be better because

02:23:17.660 you trusted God enough to rest today. Wow. He was keeping the Sabbath.

02:23:24.460 He was. So with that, since today is his Sabbath, I wanted to read to you from his journal.

02:23:33.460 Oh, wow. Is that it right there? Yeah. Wow.

02:23:37.460 In his handwriting. A note that he wrote to himself to honor the Sabbath. He said,

02:23:46.700 Dear Lord, thank you for a wonderful week. Thank you for your endless protection and provision.

02:23:54.720 Father God, thank you for your mercy and grace. Lord, I did better this week despite the challenges

02:24:01.540 of travel. I miss my wife. It's hard to be away from her for a few days.

02:24:08.980 Thank you for giving us a roadmap of what it means to be obedient and put Christ first.

02:24:14.640 Lord, I have realized the following.

02:24:17.700 The battle against the mind is Satan's playground.

02:24:21.540 He dwells and prowls to destroy.

02:24:23.960 The more in alignment we walk in your command and teachings, the more joy and blessing we experience.

02:24:33.960 Lord, thank you for showing us the way, the truth, and the life.

02:24:38.520 Thank you for blessing our organization.

02:24:42.520 I pray for resolution amongst the divides that Satan is attempting.

02:24:48.040 Lord, we pray for blessing for the people who feel they have been wronged.

02:24:51.920 Father God, we ask for your guidance, wisdom, and direction, your comfort, and your healing.

02:25:04.940 We love you, Lord.

02:25:06.780 Thank you for another Sabbath.

02:25:09.340 CK.

02:25:11.760 Wow.

02:25:12.200 Erica, I know you touched on it earlier, but I, one of the reactions I have to hearing that

02:25:28.200 is like, I get angry.

02:25:32.120 How can that man have been taken?

02:25:34.940 How, he was all goodness.

02:25:38.160 The left who are bastardizing his memory have no idea what they're talking about.

02:25:42.060 Charlie was all goodness.

02:25:45.260 I know we can't understand God's plan, but have you had bouts of anger?

02:25:50.400 You know, I think about what the kids are going to miss, what you got gypped out of,

02:25:54.500 what poor Charlie now is going to miss.

02:25:57.540 And I feel angry.

02:25:59.260 Sadness, of course, obviously, but yes, against the accused shooter.

02:26:03.420 But just, I know you don't ever feel angry against God, but I kind of do.

02:26:10.500 I mean, how do you make sense of that?

02:26:12.880 And do you have any anger when you think about it?

02:26:15.180 Not towards the Lord, but in general?

02:26:19.280 The enemy would love for me to be angry.

02:26:22.800 He would love it.

02:26:25.120 He would love it.

02:26:26.040 Because it would distract me from building what Charlie entrusted to me.

02:26:35.760 Raising our babies.

02:26:39.360 Turning point.

02:26:42.140 Being there for the team.

02:26:44.600 Being there for what the future holds.

02:26:47.780 And if I had any amount of anger in my heart and spirit,

02:26:50.540 the Lord would not be able to use me.

02:26:52.280 And every single day, just how Charlie did, stood on stage,

02:26:57.360 he would say, here I am, Lord, use me.

02:27:00.060 And if I had that anger in my heart, that foothold from the enemy,

02:27:05.460 he wouldn't be able to.

02:27:08.600 I know at Charlie's memorial, right across the way here,

02:27:15.600 there was that extraordinary moment where you forgave his accused killer.

02:27:18.940 And, I mean, I looked and I said,

02:27:22.860 that's the most powerful, strongest thing I've ever seen anybody do in my life.

02:27:27.940 And then somebody helped me understand because I thought I could never do it.

02:27:31.320 I could never do it.

02:27:32.120 And somebody said to me, forgiveness is an action, not an emotion.

02:27:37.020 And I was like, okay, that's getting me closer to feeling like I could do it.

02:27:40.560 If I don't actually have to feel loving in my heart toward the person.

02:27:44.220 But I wonder, like, how do you, if you could say something to him,

02:27:51.140 if you could, like, if you say something to his parents, like, what would it be?

02:27:54.860 Would it be anger?

02:27:56.100 Would it be sympathy?

02:27:57.740 What would it be?

02:28:00.060 That's a good question.

02:28:01.920 It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be sympathy.

02:28:07.180 It wouldn't be anger.

02:28:08.140 How do you put this?

02:28:25.800 Anything that I could ever wish upon him or that family

02:28:32.600 would pale in comparison

02:28:38.360 of the justice of God.

02:28:43.520 And so I would look at them

02:28:45.640 almost like

02:28:50.320 I'm so glad I'm not you.

02:28:56.880 I am so glad I'm not you.

02:28:58.920 And I pray that

02:29:02.660 you know, you figure out

02:29:05.920 a way to be right with the Lord, but

02:29:08.500 our God is, our God is sovereign, but he's also very just.

02:29:15.280 We serve a very just-filled God.

02:29:22.160 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

02:29:24.220 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:29:28.920 Thanks for listening.

02:29:31.820 Thanks for listening.

02:29:32.760 We'll see you next time.

02:29:33.040 We'll see you next time.

02:29:38.600 Bye.

02:29:38.620 Amen.

02:29:38.800 Bye.

02:29:40.520 Bye.

02:29:45.320 Bye.

02:29:45.760 Bye.

02:29:45.800 Bye.

02:29:46.280 Bye.

02:29:46.400 Bye.

02:29:54.480 Bye.

02:29:55.680 Bye.

02:29:56.140 Bye.

02:29:56.640 Bye.

02:29:57.260 Bye.

02:29:57.380 Bye.

02:29:58.720 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 28, 2025

Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk and More - Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments

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