The Megyn Kelly Show - Tulsi Gabbard on How Washington Really Works, Clashing with Clinton and Kamala, And Her Political Future ｜ Ep. 69

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00:01:01.380 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.280 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:06.800 Hey, everyone. It's Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.840 Today, we're excited because we have Tulsi Gabbard.

00:01:19.900 She's here by popular demand.

00:01:22.020 Not just yours, but mine too.

00:01:24.040 And we're excited because she, well, she said yes, I think,

00:01:26.340 because she's got something exciting to promote,

00:01:28.140 which is she is launching her own podcast.

00:01:31.820 And it's going to be, this is Tulsi Gabbard podcast.

00:01:34.940 You're going to want to check that out.

00:01:35.840 But we talk about it all.

00:01:37.500 Man, she gives us the inside dish on Nancy Pelosi,

00:01:43.000 on what it was like when she got to Washington,

00:01:45.580 on the bizarre and really unfortunate instructions she was given

00:01:49.060 as soon as she got there when it came to any sort of working across the aisle

00:01:53.340 with Republicans, some stuff with Kamala Harris.

00:01:56.060 We're going to get into all of it.

00:01:57.140 I think you're going to enjoy this exchange because this was sort of like

00:01:59.680 a conversation that needed to happen.

00:02:02.300 She and I have both been wanting it to happen for a long time

00:02:04.580 and it didn't disappoint.

00:02:06.280 So stay tuned for her in just one second.

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00:03:43.120 And now, Tulsi Gabbard.

00:03:47.380 Tulsi, how are you?

00:03:49.500 Aloha, Megan.

00:03:50.340 I'm good.

00:03:50.800 How are you?

00:03:52.120 Aloha.

00:03:52.840 I'm so good.

00:03:54.040 I'm so happy to be speaking to you.

00:03:57.280 Likewise.

00:03:58.360 This is, I've been looking forward to this.

00:04:00.560 I've been listening to a lot of your podcasts.

00:04:04.020 And I think, if I'm remembering correctly,

00:04:06.460 I was on your show a couple of times back when you were at Fox.

00:04:09.700 So it's great to reconnect.

00:04:11.780 Yeah, likewise.

00:04:13.320 You know, I, of course, have been watching you for years

00:04:16.220 and with great interest over the past couple of years.

00:04:19.340 And even just in reading up for this moment,

00:04:22.820 this is what I walked away with.

00:04:25.480 This is a woman who is an independent thinker

00:04:29.100 who doesn't like people trying to control her.

00:04:32.640 And I thought, I'm home.

00:04:35.340 Yes.

00:04:35.980 This is my sister from another mother.

00:04:36.960 You can relate, huh?

00:04:38.520 Yes, yeah.

00:04:40.400 Yeah.

00:04:40.980 Right?

00:04:41.260 Can I have it right?

00:04:41.980 Yes, you do.

00:04:43.340 I think that's a very accurate assessment.

00:04:46.320 I'd like to say that this is the way I've always been,

00:04:48.520 but especially, I think, coming through,

00:04:52.100 working within the political world,

00:04:54.760 you know, where there are so many different pressures,

00:04:57.180 whether it's amongst, you know,

00:04:59.900 leaders in Congress and the media,

00:05:02.300 and, you know, pick your pressure point.

00:05:04.680 Yeah, I think for myself, shock, right?

00:05:10.320 Draw my own conclusions.

00:05:11.560 And Washington doesn't like that.

00:05:12.820 No, no.

00:05:14.160 I think that that started to become clear very quickly

00:05:18.140 when, you know, I first got elected to Congress in 2012,

00:05:22.320 was sworn in in early 2013.

00:05:23.940 And, you know, I think for the Democratic Party,

00:05:27.460 I kind of checked a lot of the boxes.

00:05:31.660 You know, she's a woman, she's a woman of color, 0.92

00:05:34.100 she's a veteran, she's this, she's that.

00:05:36.160 And, you know, I was kind of the cool kid at school for a while

00:05:40.340 and the rising star and all of these different things

00:05:43.960 until I actually started to, you know,

00:05:47.940 once they started listening to what I was saying

00:05:50.020 and understanding, like, hey, I'm not here

00:05:52.200 just to punch the ticket

00:05:54.360 and be a puppet in someone else's hands.

00:05:59.200 You know, I'm here to do a job,

00:06:01.140 to serve my constituents in Hawaii,

00:06:03.060 to serve the people of our country

00:06:04.460 and speak the truth and fight for what's right,

00:06:08.460 whether that is in line with the party

00:06:13.900 or one party or another or not

00:06:16.020 and whether that's something

00:06:16.820 that's politically advantageous or not.

00:06:19.420 And at that point, you know,

00:06:21.860 it was kind of a tangible stepping back

00:06:24.380 on the part of a lot of the party leaders

00:06:27.520 and the people in Washington

00:06:29.020 who really care about being the cool kids at school,

00:06:31.980 who care about the popularity and the acceptance

00:06:34.260 and all the other stuff

00:06:35.600 instead of caring about what actually matters.

00:06:38.460 Most, which is, you know,

00:06:39.660 what every member of Congress

00:06:41.300 has been sent there to do, to serve. 0.87

00:06:43.900 That's so gross.

00:06:45.180 You know, I can almost see Nancy Pelosi saying, 0.94

00:06:47.980 oh, good, she's a combat veteran.

00:06:49.620 She knows how to take orders. 1.00

00:06:52.000 She'll do as told when I get her in here.

00:06:55.340 So, you know, I'll praise her.

00:06:57.220 I'll say things like, she's an emerging star

00:06:59.840 and I'll help her become, you know,

00:07:01.920 I think you were the number two person on the DNC

00:07:04.380 shortly after you got elected.

00:07:05.600 But then as soon as they realize,

00:07:08.520 oh, wait, she's fiercely independent

00:07:11.260 and like you say, isn't going to be my puppet.

00:07:14.600 Like the mean girls in middle and high school, 0.98

00:07:17.460 they turned.

00:07:19.200 Yeah.

00:07:19.760 Yeah.

00:07:20.000 And that was funny.

00:07:20.940 You mentioned as vice chair of the DNC,

00:07:22.740 I was asked, I got a phone call

00:07:24.860 just a few weeks after being sworn in

00:07:28.340 as a member of Congress asking, you know,

00:07:30.300 what would your answer be

00:07:31.660 if you were asked to serve as vice chair of the DNC?

00:07:35.040 I'm like, what is, what is that?

00:07:38.260 You know, what is, what is the job?

00:07:39.840 What are you, what are you actually asking me to do?

00:07:42.120 And, and, and that's,

00:07:44.080 and I think that's really what it came down to

00:07:45.860 was like, okay, well, you're this, you're this,

00:07:47.780 you're this, you fit all these different categories.

00:07:50.560 And, and, you know, it was kind of the,

00:07:53.280 the motivation I think for asking me to serve in that job.

00:07:57.760 And I, and I accepted in the hopes that I could actually do something to help fix

00:08:01.500 the process and provide transparency, fairness, and openness to,

00:08:08.260 to voters to be able to make the best informed decisions.

00:08:11.680 And, and so I did that for a little while.

00:08:14.140 You know, it reminds me just the other night we watched,

00:08:16.600 it's an older movie, but we just watched it because it was on The Firm.

00:08:20.480 You know, I don't know if you ever read that John,

00:08:21.960 that John Christian book.

00:08:23.520 It's a favorite.

00:08:24.240 Yeah.

00:08:25.060 Right.

00:08:25.340 So we were watching it stars, Tom Cruise, and it's like the star recruit

00:08:31.160 comes into the organization, has all these trappings thrown at him.

00:08:37.140 Everything looks, you know, white shoe and red leather and, you know,

00:08:41.960 wow, this is like next big phase of my career.

00:08:45.060 And then in that case, spoiler alert,

00:08:47.160 he finds out he's surrounded by a bunch of criminals

00:08:49.240 and that his life is never going to be the same again.

00:08:52.380 I'm like seeing some parallels.

00:08:53.900 I have seen a few.

00:08:56.580 Yeah.

00:08:57.380 Yeah.

00:08:59.120 I, yeah, I could, I could see the parallel as well.

00:09:03.260 Perhaps not in the specific life threatening way that happened in the book,

00:09:07.000 but certainly if you're looking at it through a political life context,

00:09:12.640 you know, what one example of that was when I actually resigned as vice chair of the DNC

00:09:18.060 for a few reasons, but primarily because in 2016 in the democratic primary,

00:09:23.900 you know, you had Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton as a soldier and as a veteran had deployed twice in the Middle East.

00:09:32.760 It was obviously at a very personal level, incredibly important to me that voters be best informed about their foreign policy records

00:09:41.680 and what kind of commander-in-chief they would be, you know, what kind of judgment they would exercise.

00:09:49.500 And I saw that in that, in that primary election, there was very, very little attention, if any,

00:09:56.780 being placed on that issue and that question by the media and by the Democratic Party and the debates and whatnot.

00:10:05.220 And so, you know, I resigned as vice chair in order to endorse Bernie Sanders specifically around this,

00:10:14.680 this issue of difference between the two of them in that Hillary Clinton is, you know, 0.98

00:10:21.440 she's got a strong track record of being, being a war hawk and interventionist and,

00:10:26.460 and her direct actions have gotten us into a lot of wars that have been counterproductive,

00:10:32.320 both to our national security, but, but also, um, interest of, of humanity and peace.

00:10:38.620 Whereas, you know, Bernie Sanders leans, leans more on the non-interventionist side.

00:10:42.160 So I resigned so that I could actually speak out on these issues and, and bring their differences to the forefront

00:10:46.980 so that voters could, um, make a better informed decision for themselves.

00:10:51.780 But I'll never forget, you know, I announced that decision on, uh, meet the press on Sunday morning.

00:10:57.680 And then on Monday, went back to work in Congress and just the look on the faces of my colleagues

00:11:04.340 who were coming and they're like, you're giving me hugs.

00:11:07.060 And they were like, Tulsi, um, I hope you realize what you just did.

00:11:12.040 Uh, the Clintons keep a list.

00:11:14.020 They will never forgive you.

00:11:15.220 Hillary Clinton will be elected president and, um, good luck because.

00:11:21.780 You have just written your political kind of, um, this, this, this is a political death wish.

00:11:28.480 And, and some of this was coming from people who had, you know, endorsed president Obama very early 0.98

00:11:33.660 in 2008 and had directly experienced many years of trying to get off of the Clinton, uh, shit list 0.99

00:11:42.220 for lack of a better word. 0.94

00:11:44.100 And, uh, and so it was, you know, I, I, I chuckled to myself as all of these people were coming to me

00:11:49.720 so concerned about my future and, and unfortunately only focused on the politics of it.

00:11:57.420 You know, whether what they were saying was true or not was to me, not the issues like,

00:12:01.820 Hey, listen, listen to what I'm saying here, that we have a really important decision.

00:12:06.720 All of us as Americans about, you know, who we're going to choose to serve as our commander

00:12:11.280 in chief and what kind of decisions they're going to make and, and the impacts that that will have

00:12:14.860 on the lives of my brothers and sisters in uniform, the lives of the American people,

00:12:19.340 the lives of people in other countries.

00:12:20.800 And that's the real issue that you should be focusing on.

00:12:24.740 Um, but, but, you know, it wasn't, it was, it was about kind of the, those,

00:12:29.740 those political consequences, um, and that being the Clinton's.

00:12:34.100 Exactly. Exactly. I, I even, there was, there was an MSNBC reporter who I did an interview

00:12:38.920 at some point after that. And they're like, aren't you afraid of what the Clintons will do to you?

00:12:44.880 They asked me that.

00:12:49.000 Like we are, you know, it's because Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who is the chair of the DNC

00:12:54.040 when you were vice chair is a Clinton person. She always has been, she did a very poor job of hiding

00:12:59.140 that when she was supposed to be neutral running that whole debate process before we knew Hillary. 1.00

00:13:04.100 Would officially be the nominee. And this, and even before you resigned to sort of say what you

00:13:10.860 wanted to say about Bernie, et cetera, we found out through WikiLeaks, which was one of the fun

00:13:16.560 revelations of the WikiLeaks dump that you didn't, you didn't have anything to do with, but that you

00:13:20.800 had privately written her a note saying, you're not being neutral. Like we're in a position where

00:13:27.580 we're supposed to be helping Democrats decide who their nominee is going to be. And you've got your

00:13:33.180 thumb on the scale. This is only two years into your stint as a Congresswoman and as vice chair

00:13:39.980 on this committee that took guts. Was that, was that at all scary? Because this is before you did

00:13:45.440 the meet the press. I'm out of this position. No, uh, it, it, it wasn't, it wasn't scary because,

00:13:52.340 you know, I, I, um, I'm not scared of Debbie Wasserman Schultz or, or the DNC infrastructure.

00:14:01.240 Um, but I was very concerned about, um, this, this tilting of the scales. And I think one of those

00:14:08.120 emails that got released or was discovered in that WikiLeaks dump was an email from, um, a couple of

00:14:16.720 guys who were CAA agents. And it was an email to me, um, that basically threatened me for, um,

00:14:30.500 my, my support of an endorsement of Bernie Sanders and that they would never do anything again to

00:14:36.020 support me and that they regretted ever trying to fundraise for me, just all of these different

00:14:40.680 things. And it was not a very veiled threat. But the thing that, that was interesting was that I

00:14:46.380 obviously got that email and, and responded to them, but the WikiLeaks showed that they forwarded

00:14:52.320 that email to John Podesta with a line that says hammer dropped. And it was, you know, uh, again,

00:15:01.160 connections, consequences. And were they Hillary's agents? They, I honestly don't know the answer to

00:15:09.300 that, but one of them, Michael Kivas was his name. Uh, he's, he's extremely well known to, I, I,

00:15:15.180 yeah, I mean, he's very tight with Hillary. He's very tight with her. I've heard he's kind of like

00:15:19.720 president Bill Clinton's son. He never had is what I'm told. So yeah, I know, I know they're pretty

00:15:25.180 tight. I knew him a bit when I was at CAA and he was extremely tight with the Clintons. It doesn't

00:15:29.360 surprise me. I mean that, that language and putting it in writing does surprise me. I was just saying

00:15:34.800 this after a different agency, UTA canceled Gina Carano for a nothing, a nothing perceived sin. 1.00

00:15:41.640 Um, how disgusting these agencies are. God, they make my stomach turn. I'm sorry, but there are so 0.91

00:15:47.740 many sleazy people in these agencies that I would just say to you and anybody else listening, just

00:15:53.920 get a good lawyer to represent you. I've got the greatest, by the way, if you need a recommendation,

00:15:57.720 I've got the greatest lawyer on earth. I'll take you up on that. He's awesome. He's a protector and

00:16:03.380 he's a, he's just, he's a, he's a defender of women. I mean, he's represented me. He represented

00:16:08.600 Gabrielle Union and her fight against ABC, NBC. I'm sure he'd love to represent you too, but

00:16:13.520 you need a fighter who really does have your best interest at heart. And these agencies only care

00:16:18.960 about themselves. That's, I digress, but that's disgusting. And I'm sure they'll come back on 0.96

00:16:24.440 bended me now that you're launching a podcast and let's face it, Hillary Clinton's not going anywhere. 1.00

00:16:30.020 Right. So you mark my words, it's only a matter of time before somebody, Kivas or somebody else 0.88

00:16:34.500 comes back and says, hi, hi, how are you? Love to be in business with you.

00:16:40.540 That's one of the interesting things that I've seen. I was having a conversation with a friend

00:16:44.400 of mine yesterday who is, who is kind of going through a little bit of cancellation himself.

00:16:49.780 But I was just saying, look, you know, you learn through these experiences as I have through

00:16:54.620 different phases, especially of my political life, who's real and who's fake and who's sincere,

00:17:04.400 whether it's in their friendship or support or, you know, being there for you and you for them

00:17:10.620 versus those who really are just, you know, put your finger to the wind and at the closest sign of

00:17:16.580 trouble, like nowhere, nowhere to be found. And, you know, you mentioned Gina Carano. I'm really,

00:17:22.460 really proud of her. I just met her personally recently through a zoom call, of course, but

00:17:28.300 just a couple, like a few weeks before this whole thing broke where she was fired by Disney.

00:17:35.660 And I just, I'm really proud of the strength and the courage and the resilience that she has shown

00:17:42.840 in the midst of being canceled in a very, very public way that impacts her, you know, her livelihood.

00:17:48.020 Um, and she's not, she's not sitting back and taking it or cowering or trying to backtrack or

00:17:53.380 do anything that unfortunately we see happen too often. I know it's, I mean, it's traumatic. I sent

00:17:59.680 her a note too, after the whole thing is, it's just having been through that myself. I know it's

00:18:03.980 traumatic. And one of my biggest takeaways is, and you know, my audience has heard me say this before,

00:18:09.200 and I'm sure, you know, this from being in politics, the people who want to believe bad things

00:18:13.700 about you are going to believe them and the people who don't require no convincing, you know, it's

00:18:19.200 like, it's almost a war. You don't have to fight. I heard a saying one time about, um, apologizing

00:18:23.760 for your kids on an airplane saying, um, the people who get it require no apology. And the people who

00:18:29.740 don't get it will never be assuaged anyway. So, so don't worry about it. Yeah. But there is a

00:18:37.920 collection of people. It's not just women, but there's certainly a lot of strong women, strong, 0.76

00:18:42.680 independent minded women, I think gathering in this sort of circle of other, right. Of just like 0.98

00:18:49.780 other not going along with party lines one way or another. And it's growing not just in number,

00:18:56.460 but in strength in like a good way, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, um, I think that's, that's true.

00:19:02.880 And, and, uh, it was Megan McCain who introduced me to Gina and it was, it was that it was like, Hey,

00:19:08.820 you know, we, we can agree on some things, disagree on other things. None of that really

00:19:12.460 matters. Let's stand together and, and just support each other as being, um, you know,

00:19:18.940 women who are, who are standing up and, and willing to, to speak the truth, um, regardless

00:19:25.180 of, of the fire or the consequences, um, that, that may come our way. And, and it's, it's encouraging

00:19:30.360 to see. And, and, and especially for those like you and others who have such an incredible

00:19:36.520 platform, you know, it, it inspire, I think it inspires other people, men and women from

00:19:43.060 across the, the political spectrum, ideological spectrum to say, Hey, you know, we, we too

00:19:49.720 can speak up, you know, that, that there is, um, there is strength and, and there is power

00:19:57.760 in standing up against this cancel culture and these attacks on our, our free speech,

00:20:04.460 our fundamental right to free speech. And it's incredible that this, this fundamental,

00:20:11.220 um, pillar of our democracy and our country is so heavily under attack, you know, from all

00:20:18.720 sectors of power. And, uh, really, you know, people say, Hey, well, what do I do? Keep speaking,

00:20:25.280 keep standing up, you know, your real feelings, cower. Exactly. Exactly. There is a market for

00:20:32.520 reason. It's really, it's like this, the sane and the insane, the reasonable and the unreasonable,

00:20:38.320 the tolerant and the intolerant. It isn't a left or right thing. It's about those other things.

00:20:43.380 And like, there's more on our side. There's, there's more people in the field of reason.

00:20:48.460 And I think it's, they are scared, but it's refreshing for them in a way it was refreshing for

00:20:52.820 me before I launched this show to listen to people doing it, saying it, living it. And I know, I mean,

00:20:58.780 you've been living it publicly. You'll, you'll be loving it when you're doing it on your podcast too.

00:21:03.900 But just to give, get, put some meat on those bones. Um, we talked about how you sort of bucked

00:21:09.960 the party and we're pushing back on old Debbie when she was running the DNC. And I read at the time,

00:21:16.720 you said you told the New York times, because you were kind of saying, why are we only having six

00:21:21.260 debates to figure out who the democratic nominee is going to be? You know, we last go around,

00:21:25.560 we had 26. And the time before that we had 15. So what are we doing? And of course that was Debbie

00:21:30.420 and others trying to protect Hillary, who is not so good in the debates. And you said to the times

00:21:35.820 of the time, they banned me. They banned me for, from going to the other debates. I, I didn't know

00:21:41.040 I'd be relinquishing my free speech in coming to this job and not bending the knee.

00:21:46.400 Exactly. Exactly. It was, it was, and that was kind of the, the, um, irony about that whole

00:21:53.400 situation and how it played out was not only were the debates limited to those six and they were on

00:21:59.620 terrible, terrible days, uh, where viewership was likely to be very low, but she also, and this was

00:22:06.360 a unilateral decision. There was no discussion with the other officers, the DNC or anything, you know,

00:22:10.360 Donna Brazil, the other officers, all of us were caught off guard when we learned about this

00:22:14.600 through a press release, but not only was it limited, but she instituted this rule that said,

00:22:22.180 if any of the candidates participate in a non DNC sanctioned event, a debate or forum where you have

00:22:30.660 more than one candidate on the stage at any time, then they are banned from all future DNC sanctioned

00:22:36.420 events. So this punitive measure put in place essentially to punish candidates from seeking

00:22:43.500 opportunities to go and connect with voters, to talk about real issues in a substantive way.

00:22:49.700 And especially in a way that, you know, the way these debates are set up and, you know,

00:22:53.700 very well from having moderated them, you know, what, what does a voter really get from a 60 second

00:22:59.640 response to a question and, and how they're really set up for, you know, this reality TV.

00:23:06.300 And so my raising this issue as a vice chair of the DNC, I raised it internally first, uh, got,

00:23:12.720 got no, there was no room for any constructive dialogue around this decision was made and that

00:23:18.780 was it. And so I raised it publicly because I felt so strongly about how counter to a strong and vibrant

00:23:25.300 democracy this decision was. And then, uh, got a message from, uh, kind of her Debbie's chief of staff

00:23:33.400 to my chief of staff basically saying like, Hey, if Tulsi is going to keep up like this and publicly

00:23:38.540 criticizing these decisions, uh, she, she's, she really shouldn't come to, uh, this was, this was

00:23:44.460 right before the very first, uh, democratic primary. She really shouldn't come to, uh, I think it was

00:23:48.380 Vegas for, for the debate and, you know, tickets had been purchased. Like it was every, every, you know,

00:23:53.680 the whole thing I was, I was going to go and, and sit in the crowd and, you know, my, my speaking up

00:23:59.140 was, I guess, uh, uh, a hair too far for them and, and God forbid that there be discussion around how

00:24:07.160 the DNC is, is running what was supposed to be a neutral primary. And frankly, having gone through

00:24:12.480 a primary myself now in 2020, I will tell you things have, have not gotten better. If anything,

00:24:17.840 they've gotten worse. I love how your response to that was to go tell the New York times.

00:24:22.540 It's like, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be controlled by you. I'm just not like my response

00:24:28.960 to your saying, I should stop speaking out about the shitty way in which this is being run is to

00:24:33.200 go tell the New York times. You're even shittier than I thought. Speak out more. I've never done 0.99

00:24:39.860 well with people who try to threaten me. Right. I know me neither. Or, or just tell me that I can't.

00:24:46.000 I mean, it just makes me want to do it 10 times more, even if I wasn't that committed to it initially,

00:24:50.120 once you tell me that I can't do it, it's like, all right, now we're going to go. So I can see the

00:24:54.620 bloom coming off the rose here between you and the party. You know, you can start to see how it starts

00:24:59.540 to chip away a bit. Um, what had you seen, let's just back up a little, cause I am curious when you

00:25:05.060 first got there, you know, you're, you're young, you're, it was 2013, right? So that's seven or eight

00:25:13.620 years ago. So you're 32 around there. Yeah, I was a 31 turning 32 and, and, uh, April of 2013.

00:25:21.800 So are, you must be somewhat wide eyed. I, I realized you were, you know, a combat combat veteran

00:25:27.520 and had served two tours of duty over in Iraq, but let's put that to the side for the second and say,

00:25:33.020 okay, this is a new battlefield. Did you arrive optimistic, hopeful, you know, describe your

00:25:40.260 attitude when you first got there? Um, well, I had worked as a, uh, legislative aid for one of

00:25:47.580 Hawaii's U S senators, Senator Daniel, Daniel Akaka back, uh, between both of my middle East deployments,

00:25:53.820 uh, 2000, when was it 2006 to 2008 timeframe. And he was the chair of the veterans affairs committee at

00:26:01.620 the time. And so I, um, uh, you know, they, they asked if I would come in and work with him on

00:26:06.980 issues related to veterans affairs. And, and I worked with him on, uh, other issues,

00:26:11.460 energy and natural resources. And, and, um, it was, that was my first real exposure to Washington

00:26:18.880 as a staffer. And it was, it was interesting to kind of see the dynamic there and to see the

00:26:24.180 dynamic in the Senate at that time. Uh, so I, I wasn't coming in completely fresh. I had a perspective,

00:26:33.160 but, but coming in at the time that I did, you know, fast forward to 2013, uh, very quickly saw

00:26:41.220 how much more partisan the environment was then than when I was there, uh, working as, as a member

00:26:49.640 of his staff. Um, you know, I, I came in with a very clear sense of purpose. You know, I, I ran for

00:26:57.360 Congress because coming out of both of those deployments to the middle East, I, I wanted to

00:27:04.300 find a way to be in a position where I could actually influence policy as it relates to the

00:27:11.160 military, as it relates to foreign policy, the issues of war and peace, rather than just being

00:27:17.340 on the, you know, the receiving end of those decisions, uh, made by those in power. I wanted

00:27:22.260 to take those experiences that I had had to actually influence, uh, those decisions. And that was,

00:27:27.100 you know, one of the main reasons I ran for Congress and, and understanding the responsibility

00:27:32.000 and carrying that responsibility with me in my heart every day of, of my brothers and sisters

00:27:39.340 in uniform and, and who I was there, um, to serve. So while, uh, that, that was my focus going in

00:27:48.420 and going in noting that, you know, yeah, Democrat elected from Hawaii there to serve my, all of

00:27:55.280 my constituents and all of the American people, regardless of political party and to do my best,

00:28:00.220 um, to make those decisions that would best serve the American people in our country.

00:28:06.560 Um, and so, you know, it, it was, it was a bit of a shock to me within, I would say the first week

00:28:14.240 of being in Washington, even prior to being sworn in, you know, they bring all the members of Congress

00:28:19.080 in for orientation and, you know, ethics briefings and all kinds of stuff. And very quickly within a

00:28:25.880 few days, um, this group of 84 members of Congress that, that were just elected were separated and we

00:28:34.200 spent a few days together and it was great to get to know each other, Republicans and Democrats who

00:28:38.340 got to know each other's families a little bit and learn more about each other. And it was,

00:28:41.960 it was amazing until we were separated into camps. You know, Democrats went here, started meeting in

00:28:48.820 different places, Republicans met in different places and, and very directly the, um, narrative

00:28:55.780 and the directive rather was kind of set from the leadership that, Hey, this is about winning the

00:29:02.940 next election. And, uh, you know, for example, we don't want you working with, with Republicans too

00:29:09.060 much or specific Republicans who we have targets on, because if you give them a bipartisan win,

00:29:14.080 then it makes them look better and more likely they'll be able to win in the next election. Uh,

00:29:19.860 you know, if you've got bills that are coming before you to vote on, and you know, if you've got a

00:29:25.520 Democrat bill and Republican bill that are, you know, virtually identical, you know, you vote yes on

00:29:30.900 the Democrat bill and vote no on the Republican bill. And, and just the, the hard partisanship line was set

00:29:36.700 from the get go. Like, Hey, this is our team. That's their team. We're the good guys. They're

00:29:41.160 the bad guys. Uh, don't, you don't help the quote unquote enemy. And, um, that, that was,

00:29:51.320 that was very, uh, a stark confrontation with the priorities of the leadership. And, and I talked

00:29:59.160 with some of my Republican friends and, and they were given, uh, similar, similar lines, which is,

00:30:04.600 which is at the heart of what is so wrong and broken with Washington now is, uh, and has been,

00:30:10.420 but is getting worse is, is the motivation behind the decisions that are being made. Uh, everything

00:30:16.060 from what legislation is allowed to come to the house floor, uh, whose bills are pushed forward

00:30:22.080 and whose aren't the consequences of, of having well-intentioned members of Congress from both

00:30:31.220 parties who do want to work together, who do want to find bipartisan solutions that will actually fix

00:30:37.300 real problems. If, if that is not in line with what the party wants, then, then you have threats

00:30:43.620 of like, if you do this, you know, we're not gonna, we're not gonna back you up with any money or support

00:30:47.900 in your reelection. Uh, if you do this, you know, you're, you're not going to get the committee you

00:30:52.700 want, or, uh, you know, you'll get yanked off the committee that you're on and, and you are definitely

00:30:57.560 not going to be prom queen. Right. Exactly. That's really what it comes down to. If we're

00:31:02.240 being serious, seriously, it's like, no, it is, it is, it's like high school. Is this Pelosi

00:31:08.900 maneuvering? Like, let's just go back to that time. But at that time, was it Pelosi maneuvering on

00:31:12.820 the Dem side? And can't remember who the, um, house leader was on the Republican speak. It was

00:31:18.680 Speaker Boehner at the time. Okay. It was speaker. Uh, when I got elected. And so we, the Democrats were

00:31:23.500 the minority Republicans had the majority. And, uh, uh, so yeah, I mean, Pelosi was the minority

00:31:30.420 leader at the time. And, and she, she's been in leadership on the Democrat side since I got elected.

00:31:35.880 Um, but I think, I think, um, you know, I've, I've worked with her on different issues. She has been

00:31:42.980 very respectful of my service in the military and, and being a veteran. Um, I,

00:31:51.740 you know, I, I asked her for help when we were dealing with some COVID issues out here in Hawaii

00:31:57.520 and she was very helpful with that. But I think the issue with her leadership, uh, and, and the team

00:32:07.100 around her, uh, is the same issue that I have with, with the leadership overall from both parties,

00:32:13.260 which is, is, um, no matter kind of the, the rhetoric that comes out, really what it all boils down to

00:32:20.980 is about political power and, um, winning, winning the, the, getting, getting those political wins,

00:32:29.080 uh, without really any serious regard to the consequences, uh, of those decisions and how

00:32:37.800 that will. Right. Exactly. And, and how, how ultimately what's the cost? The cost is the negative

00:32:44.120 consequence on the American people who struggle or suffer as a result of their needs being ignored

00:32:52.840 and dismissed. Yeah. More with Tulsi in just one second. But first, do you hate doing your taxes?

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00:34:30.720 I've been saying for a long time, we're just going to have to forge on without lawmakers. We're going

00:34:34.120 to have to find a way to make private industry and ourselves solve our problems. Are you in Hawaii

00:34:39.160 now? I am. Because I can hear the beautiful birds tweeting behind you and here on the Upper West Side

00:34:46.160 of Manhattan. I think somebody just got shot outside the window and the sirens are coming. It's very

00:34:50.140 like, no, no, no, no, not really. There's a bit of a juxtaposition here. I'd take you to the beach

00:34:58.800 with me if I could, but that might be a little distracting for both of us. I would love to go.

00:35:03.280 Trust me. I mean, having, um, our, our, the place we go is our place on the Jersey shore. And while my

00:35:08.680 husband is like you, he jumps right in the ocean. As soon as we get there, the beaches aren't quite

00:35:12.920 the same. That was when I was in DC working, uh, working for Senator Akaka. I, I couldn't,

00:35:20.620 and I've heard you talk about this in, uh, I, uh, I think it was with Tim Dillon. You were talking

00:35:25.080 about your first experiences kind of in the social scene in DC and kind of how gross it is. So I stayed

00:35:32.140 away from it at all costs. And every, if it was warm outside, I was either driving to Virginia beach,

00:35:37.260 the Jersey shore somewhere. I was going to the ocean wherever I possibly could. Perfect. Perfectly

00:35:43.320 smart decision. Now, speaking of Akaka, who you worked for back in 06. So it was his seat that

00:35:50.380 Maisie Hirono got. And then she had been a congresswoman from Hawaii and you, you took that

00:35:55.400 seat. Um, can I ask you about her? Because I, I'll just be honest. She seems like a nutcase. 1.00

00:36:01.160 Um, she, she's come out and said men should be presumed guilty when they get accused in a 0.88

00:36:06.860 me too situation. Presumed guilty. Hello. She walked out of an Antifa hearing rather than

00:36:13.020 answer Ted Cruz's question of whether, you know, she would condemn them or ask some questions.

00:36:18.200 She called Gorsuch, Alito and Thomas, the three horsemen of the apocalypse. And then she's the

00:36:24.060 one who scolded Amy Coney Barrett for using the term sexual preference, you know, saying it's not a

00:36:29.480 preference. It's inborn, which is like, I mean, now who can keep track? Like the things change,

00:36:33.240 like the, the ideology on this, the messaging. But anyway, she wanted an apology from Amy Coney

00:36:38.020 Barrett for saying sexual preference. And then a reporter got in her face and said, well, should 1.00

00:36:42.720 Biden apologize for saying sexual preference? Cause he said that just a couple of months ago.

00:36:46.440 And I wrote down the exchanges. I just thought it was so crazy. She said, well, he isn't up for a

00:36:50.660 spot in the Supreme court reporter. Uh, no, he's, he's up for a spot in the white house. Her response.

00:36:56.580 Oh, stop it. The world is in flames.

00:36:58.380 Like she just seems like a nutcase. She, she is, she is a partisan politician. And, and I think 0.98

00:37:04.880 those examples that you cite and the contradictions are, um, the, the, the examples that, that prove

00:37:11.680 the point of the double standard and the hypocrisy that we see too often where, uh, you, you have one

00:37:18.300 standard for people who you like or people who are on your team and the complete opposite standard for

00:37:24.700 those who you don't like, or don't agree with, or who are not on your team. And, you know, it, it,

00:37:31.220 it boggles my mind to see whether it's her or other politicians in Washington constantly doing this,

00:37:39.300 having this, this very blatant double standard. And to me, the most offensive thing about that is

00:37:44.980 it's, it's based on this assumption that the American people are so stupid that they can't see it, 1.00

00:37:51.620 that they can't see the double standard that, that they're pushing forward and, and how blatantly, 1.00

00:37:57.420 um, partisan their actions and their words are. There was, there was one other, um, situation where,

00:38:07.540 uh, I think it was Senator Hirono as well as, uh, Senator Harris, who in questioning another, uh,

00:38:15.900 court nominee under, um, president Trump. But I think you saw some of the same with Amy

00:38:21.540 Coney Barrett as well, this very blatant religious bigotry and it caused, it caused some waves, uh,

00:38:28.620 here in Hawaii and, and, and also in some national press when I pointed out very publicly, uh, how

00:38:37.500 unconstitutional and dangerous their line of questioning was, uh, in both of those cases in

00:38:45.600 really making the point that there should be some kind of religious test for someone to serve

00:38:54.520 in our government, which again is, is, is directly undermining and counter to our constitution that

00:39:01.740 says there shall be no religious test. And the dangerous consequences of that on our society, when

00:39:09.220 you have United States senators who are, you know, essentially weaponizing religion for their own

00:39:14.700 selfish gain and, and their own political gain, um, you know, it, it, it points to a deeper kind of,

00:39:24.520 uh, corruption and, and ultimately a lack of, a lack of appreciation by our elected leaders for

00:39:31.620 our constitution, which we're seeing more and more being pushed to the forefront now where there,

00:39:38.420 because they don't understand it or care for our constitution, they're so easily, um, taking

00:39:46.300 actions or setting policies or, or saying things that act really, truly undermine, undermine our

00:39:52.360 constitutional rights and these in inalienable rights that have been granted to us by our creator

00:39:58.780 that cannot be taken away by any, any person. You know, it's like, I'm, I'm used to politicians

00:40:04.200 saying what they want to say to sort of feed their side, but I would say usually they try to stay at

00:40:09.380 least within the bounds of the law. Like I see somebody like Ted Cruz, he's an operator, obviously,

00:40:13.940 but he also understands constitutional law. And I see him trying to stay within the bounds though,

00:40:20.800 while being a partisan for, for someone to come out and say, all men should be presumed guilty.

00:40:26.960 And then of course, crickets, when Joe Biden got accused by Tara Reid, you know, of a sexual assault

00:40:32.820 in the halls of con crickets, right? Even today we're talking about, um, Andrew Cuomo. Now he has

00:40:38.040 an accuser who's finally gone on the record. This woman said she'd been, uh, harassed by him a couple

00:40:42.960 months ago, but she wasn't ready to tell her story. And now she's come out and she's, she's telling it.

00:40:47.900 And it's a, you know, he stopped me, shoved his tongue down my throat. It's pretty blatant.

00:40:52.200 Wow. Hello, Maisie. Do you think Andrew Cuomo should be like, it's just, that's what,

00:40:57.000 that's what killed the Me Too movement. The hypocrisy when we got to, you know, um,

00:41:02.720 Brett Kavanaugh, which suddenly it was just all women must be believed. They must be believed.

00:41:06.600 And you saw it get weaponized against him. I feel like going partisan, that knee jerk instinct to go

00:41:13.220 partisan and nuts, like throw away the constitution. It explains a lot of what we see in Washington.

00:41:19.960 Yes, completely. And in, in that specific example of, of the Me Too movement, which is one of many

00:41:27.320 examples that, that prove your point here is who suffers as a result of that people who are true 0.91

00:41:37.100 victims of sexual assault, who have been, um, uh, you know, cast aside or ignored and, um,

00:41:46.580 have been looking for ways to pursue justice now get caught up in this, this broader, uh, partisanship

00:41:57.680 of exactly what you said. Well, well, you know, all men should be presumed guilty, uh, you know,

00:42:06.360 believe all women, uh, you know, I, these are very, very serious, serious and, and often heartbreaking

00:42:13.940 situations that, that, that must be taken seriously. And for, for those who, frankly, both men and women,

00:42:22.780 uh, who have been victims of this kind of, um, assault and, and victims to predators, they just,

00:42:31.840 they're, they're the ones who lose the most because of this.

00:42:35.400 Have you ever found yourself on the receiving end of a Me Too type situation?

00:42:42.660 Um, nothing as serious as, as many, many of those, uh, who, who really, really, you know, have, have very

00:42:51.260 serious situations of assault. Uh, look, I'm, I'm in the military and in politics. Um, there's,

00:42:59.140 there's been situations that, you know, maybe have been a little bit uncomfortable and, and there was,

00:43:03.640 there was one particularly in the military where, uh, a fellow soldier was, was making some very

00:43:09.280 unwelcome, unwelcome kind of, uh, physical advances. And, and it was somebody that I worked with every

00:43:15.860 day. And, um, I made clear that those advances were unwelcome and they continued. So I reported it

00:43:24.080 to my commander and, uh, credit to him. He took immediate action, uh, in making it so that, um,

00:43:32.800 I, I was no longer working with this person and this person was not going to be in a position

00:43:40.400 where, uh, anyone else may be, um, subject to those unwelcome kinds of advances. So, you know,

00:43:48.960 and to me that, that was, that was sufficient. That was exactly what should happen in those kinds

00:43:54.400 of situations. Um, but, but again, I mean, I, I, superior or, or, or no, a peer equally positioned

00:44:00.800 appear. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just wasn't going to sort of take no for an answer. Yeah,

00:44:05.240 pretty much. You know, it happens everywhere. There's, there's no industry that doesn't get

00:44:09.320 affected by it. And, you know, sometimes as you say, it's, it's not, it's not always a sexual thing.

00:44:14.040 I mean, I, I look at you, I see a beautiful woman, a strong woman, you have a good voice,

00:44:19.060 you have a nice presence, plus you're tough, you know, served in the military. I know you got three

00:44:23.960 brothers. I think all that probably helped you, but you know, it can definitely, I don't know,

00:44:30.520 lead people to treat you a different way. And I think Congress is pretty disgusting anyway. I don't 0.53

00:44:38.060 know. I think you tell me and no offense, but I do think a lot of the people who are attracted to

00:44:42.740 Congress have outsized egos and, and really don't have the intellect to back it up. So you're not one

00:44:49.260 of them, but I think, you know, if you find yourself in your position immersed around them,

00:44:53.300 it would be pretty unpleasant. Yeah. You know, I, I, after being in Congress for a few months,

00:45:00.020 somebody, somebody from home, I think here in Hawaii asked me, maybe it was an interview. I don't

00:45:05.400 really remember, but they're like, so how's it going? Are you fitting in yet? And my immediate

00:45:10.240 response is like, no. And I never want to fit in here for that reason. It's just, you know,

00:45:19.000 the moment you start fitting in, in a place like Washington, DC, where it is such a bubble that

00:45:25.480 is so far removed from the reality of the everyday lives of, of people, whether it's, you know,

00:45:31.300 people here in Hawaii or people in any part of the country, country, then, you know, you know,

00:45:37.520 you've taken a wrong turn and you care about, you care about the wrong thing. So yeah, I made it a

00:45:43.840 point to, um, I made it a point to get out and get back home as much as possible. Uh, my husband,

00:45:51.900 my husband, he's, he's not a fan of Washington, DC at all. What's his, what's his story?

00:45:57.380 He is, uh, he's a cinematographer, uh, and loves to surf. Like I do grew up out here, born in, uh,

00:46:03.680 born in New Zealand, uh, family moved to Hawaii when he was young. And, uh, so, so spent his life

00:46:08.980 growing up out here, but he's never, um, he's never been interested in any, any of the political

00:46:15.920 trappings whatsoever. I've asked him like, Hey, we got this invitation to go to a congressional

00:46:20.660 spouses event. And he says, please do not make me go. Oh my God. And then you're like, how would

00:46:27.660 you like to be the second gentleman? He's like, Oh yeah, that was the conversation. Trust me.

00:46:32.540 And the immediate answer to that was not yes at all. Right. Right. Who's right. If your last name

00:46:42.260 isn't Clinton, I think most people would think, why do I want to do that? But, but I think that,

00:46:47.260 that right there goes to the distinction between the two kinds of people that I've come across who,

00:46:51.660 who serve in Washington, DC in different positions are those who hunger for that, um, status,

00:46:58.380 who would love to be in these positions, who, who want the title and the glitter and the, you know,

00:47:04.240 the unfortunate pedestal that, that politicians are often put on, especially in Washington versus

00:47:11.260 those who cringe at all of that, but go through, you know, go through the campaigning and go through,

00:47:20.420 um, all of the things that are required to operate in the political world because of this sense of higher

00:47:27.460 purpose and mission of service and kind of endure the other stuff that you have to endure in order

00:47:35.460 to be able to be in a position to make change. And, um, I, I've been, uh, I'm grateful to have been

00:47:43.880 able to, to actually become friends with and work with some of those folks, uh, in Washington,

00:47:47.920 but unfortunately I would say that's, it's not the prevailing motivation. And, and that's just

00:47:54.480 evident by, it's evident by the results and evident by the fact that there are too many people there

00:47:59.320 who are afraid and therefore so easily kind of, uh, put in a position of kowtowing to the wishes of

00:48:09.860 those in leadership or, or, or the most powerful. And, and that's really where voters, that's, that's

00:48:15.440 where we, we get the, we get the decision of like, how do we change this? I think is the next logical

00:48:19.820 question. And, and this is where, you know, I would think we as voters can, can do more to make

00:48:25.460 those decisions about what kind of people and what kind of leaders we're sending to Washington.

00:48:31.660 So, um, who's the worst one? Who's your least favorite lawmaker? 0.91

00:48:37.940 You know, I don't, I don't, I like there's, there's no single name. There's no single name

00:48:42.820 that comes to mind at all. I I've really, I've been able to work.

00:48:46.080 Does it rhyme with Daisy?

00:48:47.780 No, no, no, no. You know, I, I want to tell you something kind of cool that I did first,

00:48:54.120 first, um, one of the first things I did when I went to Congress in, as a way to try to break

00:48:58.960 through the partisanship, uh, and actually build relationships because there's so much vilification

00:49:04.960 and kind of a dehumanizing that happens there that makes it easier to, you know, draw the line and,

00:49:11.100 and, um, uh, kind of in, in sight, the divisiveness and, and, and polarization that we see.

00:49:20.300 And, and it's easier to do when you don't see other people as like people who also have families

00:49:25.300 and lives. And, and so one of the things, the first things that I did was, um, you know, in Hawaii,

00:49:30.940 we, we like to give these gifts of aloha. Uh, and I thought, what, what can I do to reach out

00:49:36.040 to, to my new colleagues? Cause I didn't, I didn't really know anybody there and,

00:49:39.860 and wanted to find a way to introduce myself so that I could work with them. And,

00:49:43.200 and so my, my mom makes this incredible macadamia nut toffee, which I'll have to send you some.

00:49:50.560 It's, it's amazing.

00:49:51.680 Those are two of my favorite things on earth.

00:49:53.540 Oh, really?

00:49:54.560 Yes. What kind of a genius thought to combine them?

00:49:58.360 I don't know.

00:49:59.660 But she's got this, she's got this, um, secret family recipe. I don't even have it,

00:50:04.700 but I called her from DC and I said, mom, I have an idea. Would you help me by making 434 boxes of,

00:50:12.620 of your toffee for every single member of Congress? And, you know, she's, she's a wonderful,

00:50:19.360 obviously she's my mom. She's amazing. And, you know, raised, raised five boys or five kids with

00:50:24.340 my dad. And, uh, she's like, yeah, of course, I think that's a great idea. And I, I said, okay,

00:50:29.240 awesome. Thank you. I have one more favor to ask on top of that. She's like, yeah.

00:50:34.880 Can you make another 435 bigger boxes of toffee for the staff of every member of Congress?

00:50:41.480 Wow.

00:50:42.180 And she, she paused. There was a very pregnant pause in the phone. She's like, honey, 0.96

00:50:48.940 yes, I will do it, but it's going to take a little bit longer.

00:50:53.100 Oh, what a doll. Both of you.

00:50:54.200 Thank you so much. No, it was, it was amazing. And so she was in Hawaii and she, you know,

00:50:59.140 she's like stirring two pots of toffee at the same time, pouring it, chopping the Mac nuts. 0.93

00:51:03.360 My dad self-appointed as the quality control testing guy and tasted a little, a little piece

00:51:08.320 out of every pan. And, and as they were, as they were doing that, I was just, uh, I just started

00:51:12.900 handwriting, you know, short, short personal notes, um, to introduce myself to all of my colleagues,

00:51:18.140 Democrats and Republicans and saying, I really look forward to serving with you. And the incredible

00:51:23.060 thing, Megan was that as we started to deliver these, these little gifts of Aloha, um, the res,

00:51:32.020 the response was, was virtually immediate. And again, I was Democrat and the minority freshmen,

00:51:36.880 you know, no real place in the hierarchy of Congress whatsoever. But I started to see senior

00:51:45.940 ranking Republicans, chairman of powerful committees, people from other States and who I normally probably

00:51:53.060 had the opportunity to interact with making that long walk from the Republican side of the floor

00:51:58.020 to the Democrat side, looking for me and just saying, thank you. And, and often, often saying,

00:52:06.220 like, I love the toffee. Do you have any more? Cause I ate it all and I need to take some home

00:52:12.000 to my family. But then most importantly, just saying, Tulsi, tell me, tell me about your district.

00:52:18.340 Tell me what you're interested in working on here. I am the chairman of the transportation committee,

00:52:22.780 or this committee, or this is something I'm doing. And let's find a way to work together.

00:52:28.360 You won't tell me who the worst was. I'm going to continue guessing. Um, but was there,

00:52:32.820 was there someone who was the best? Was there somebody who really surprised you as a truly

00:52:36.940 standout person that we should be really grateful is serving the country in this way?

00:52:40.740 There are, there's more than one. No, there's more than one. There, there, there are different

00:52:46.200 people who, um, I mean, look, Trey Gowdy became a very good friend of mine and, uh, there, there's a

00:52:53.500 whole other story that, that is kind of the background to that friendship where, um, when I

00:53:00.700 mentioned his name to people, they think it's as, whether they're Democrat or Republicans, they think

00:53:06.040 it's the most unlikely friendship, but when it came down to it, they want to know about his hair.

00:53:09.960 Of course. I mean, he lets people know about his hair, so there's not much of a mystery there.

00:53:14.640 I know, but I still have questions. They're unresolved. Right. Right. Um, but, but our

00:53:20.900 friendship and we did, we worked together on civil liberties legislation and some other things,

00:53:25.180 but our friendship came down to, uh, I, I had a threat on my life at one point where as a long time, 0.99

00:53:31.980 years long stalker who culminated in saying, I'm going to hunt you down and cut your head off with

00:53:38.980 a sword, the got Capitol police protection and, and they were hunting, you know, I was, I was had 0.98

00:53:45.580 security until they found him. Uh, and then the, the actual, you know, court process started and it

00:53:51.480 got to a point where I, I thought I was going to have to go testify in federal court, uh, against him.

00:53:56.300 And I'd never, I've never done that before. So I was thinking in, in kind of my war gaming hat came

00:54:03.140 on. It's like, okay, I need to prepare. What kind of questions are they going to ask? You know,

00:54:07.080 how's this whole thing going to work out? And so I called Trey and, and we didn't know each other

00:54:10.360 very well at the time, but he was friendly. And so I sat with him on the house floor and told him

00:54:14.760 the situation. I said, would you help me prepare for this? Given his long history in the courtroom

00:54:20.140 and immediately he, he's fantastic. And immediately he said, Tulsi, I will help you prepare whatever

00:54:28.340 you need. Let me know. And I don't care whatever day is set for you to appear in court. I will drop

00:54:35.260 everything and I will physically go with you into the courthouse and support you. And that meant the

00:54:41.440 world to me. And it's those kinds of people like Trey, uh, very good friends of mine, Mark Wayne

00:54:50.920 Mullen from Oklahoma. He's a Republican. Joe Kennedy from Massachusetts is a dear friend,

00:54:55.940 Kirsten Sinema from Arizona, Jason Smith from Missouri, Kevin McCarthy. You know, we've developed

00:55:01.180 friendships, not because we agree on everything politically. Um, but these are all people who

00:55:06.480 came to our wedding and, and are, I'm very close to because of who they are as people

00:55:11.700 and, and the respect that we have for each other in knowing that regardless of differences in politics,

00:55:18.400 um, that, that care comes from a place of wanting to do what we feel is best to serve our country.

00:55:31.080 We're going to get back to Tulsi in just one second. We're going to talk about her feelings about

00:55:34.540 Hillary Clinton, who called her a Russian asset. I'll share my own thoughts on Hillary actually.

00:55:40.380 Uh, and also on Kamala Harris, boy, those two dusted it up big time. And so how did that work

00:55:46.080 out? What does Tulsi think about her now? Uh, but first we get back to that. I want to talk to you

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00:57:13.040 slash MK. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. And now before we get back to Tulsi, we're going to

00:57:19.440 bring you a new feature. We're starting a new feature on the Megyn Kelly show that we are calling

00:57:23.780 from the archives, where we find a clip from our archives and bring you an update to the story.

00:57:29.380 Today, we're jumping way back. Not really to episode 59, where I was joined by Chris Ruffo

00:57:35.560 and Jody Shaw. When I talked to Shaw, she was quote on leave from her employer, Smith college

00:57:41.600 after Jody went public with incredible allegations of racism against Smith. You remember what they were

00:57:46.300 doing to her? And she's like, stop making my pigmentation all I'm about and all my colleagues

00:57:50.740 are about. This is absurd. Well, Shaw's on paid administrative leave no longer. She has now 0.96

00:57:57.320 officially resigned. But before I tell you about what happened, take a listen to just some of my

00:58:01.400 conversation with Jody. What happened after you released it? Because I know you said you'd been

00:58:05.340 speaking with other staff. What happened in your life, in your world? It's interesting. You know,

00:58:11.300 I didn't know if two people would watch it and that would be it. Or if, you know,

00:58:14.980 thousands of people would watch it. And it was it was the latter. I all of it's it's interesting

00:58:21.520 what happened at Smith because, you know, we're all remote at this point. All of the people I had

00:58:26.640 spoken to regularly about this kind of thing, you know, kind of whispering on the side, being careful,

00:58:32.920 no, you know, closed doors and other people this really bothered also and said, well, we should do

00:58:40.660 something but nobody, nobody, everybody's afraid of losing their job. And so I did something. And

00:58:47.200 then none of those people are in contact with me now, except for one, one person texted me and said,

00:58:54.720 good job. No way. They all made very clear. I remember texting one and she made very clear she

00:59:04.180 did not want to be associated with me anymore. And I kind of understand that because it's kind of like

00:59:10.780 guilt by association. Like they know other people have seen us together before. And now my gosh, like

00:59:17.040 I have to, like people are going to know that I'm, I'm speaking with Jody and I don't want that

00:59:23.220 association anymore. I mean, there is real terror. There is terror. But on the other hand, a lot of

00:59:29.540 Smith staff and faculty have reached out to me, you know, on the down low and we are now in touch and I'm

00:59:38.540 now in communications. I will say there is still, there are only few who will put their name on it. It is,

00:59:48.660 it is a high terror situation, which is very concerning to me because if we are already at that level, I'm very

00:59:56.660 concerned if this keeps going, like if we're already at a level where we can't say anything, then it,

01:00:03.300 how is this going to progress? Well, last week Shaw resigned in a letter that was first published by

01:00:09.560 our pal, Barry Weiss, another former guest from episode 54. She's got her own sub stack, which you

01:00:15.420 should subscribe to. Let me read you just a part of what Jody Shaw wrote. I wanted to change things

01:00:21.860 at Smith. I hoped that by bringing an internal complaint, I could somehow get the administration

01:00:27.200 to see that their capitulation to critical race orthodoxy was causing real measurable harm. When

01:00:34.220 that failed, I hoped that drawing public attention to these problems at Smith would finally awaken the

01:00:38.980 administration to this reality. I have come to conclude, however, that the college is so deeply

01:00:44.060 committed to this toxic ideology that the only way for me to escape the racially hostile climate

01:00:49.340 is to resign. It is completely unacceptable that we are now living in a culture in which one must

01:00:55.860 choose between remaining in a racially hostile, psychologically abusive environment or giving

01:01:02.760 up their income. Oh, what shoes she did right now. She's out of a job. Good for Jody, by the way, 1.00

01:01:10.700 it takes courage. She told us in the program, you know, she's, she's going to work plowing driveways,

01:01:16.780 taking care of people's yards, whatever she can to, to pay the bill. She's got two kids to look after 0.92

01:01:21.500 too. And good luck to her with what comes next. We're going to keep you updated on this and keep

01:01:25.820 you updated on other interviews from the archives. And now back to Tulsi.

01:01:36.080 The truth is while you were handing out macadamia nut toffee in the house,

01:01:40.940 Kamala Harris was over in the Senate with a little Tulsi Gabbard voodoo doll. 1.00

01:01:44.580 You probably needed 100 more of those boxes because these would be your, your opponents

01:01:55.040 up on the stage when you decided to throw your hat in the big ring and run for president

01:01:59.700 this last go around. And this is when you really started to emerge as a truly, truly national figure,

01:02:07.280 like a boss and in the, in your party, or at least in the national media. I'm not sure. Actually,

01:02:12.480 I'm curious whether you think I'll ask you that in a second. It ultimately helped you with Democrats

01:02:15.980 or hurt you with Democrats. I do think it helped you with the nation running. Um, and let me, so let

01:02:20.980 me take you forward to, there were, there were a bunch of debates that time around you, uh,

01:02:26.180 appeared in the first, you appeared in the second, you didn't qualify in the third, although you

01:02:29.240 should have, but they decided no, cause you were doing too well. Um, you appeared in the fourth

01:02:34.040 and, um, it was, I think at the fifth debate, if I'm not, I don't know, maybe it's the fourth,

01:02:41.100 whatever. It doesn't matter. It was the, it was the fall of 19, I think where you and Kamala Harris

01:02:48.680 got into it. If you don't mind, I just want to refresh the audience's memory just by playing a

01:02:52.680 little back and forth. Here, listen. I think that, um, it's unfortunate that we have someone on the

01:02:58.760 stage who is attempting to be the Democratic nominee for president of the United States,

01:03:03.380 who during the Obama administration spent four years full time on Fox News criticizing President

01:03:09.100 Obama, who has spent full time, who has spent full time criticizing people on this stage

01:03:16.140 as affiliated with the Democratic Party. What Senator Harris is doing is unfortunately

01:03:22.080 continuing to traffic in lies and smears and innuendos.

01:03:26.720 There are too many examples to cite, but she put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations 1.00

01:03:33.060 and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.

01:03:36.740 She blocked evidence. She blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from death row 0.92

01:03:44.080 until the courts forced her to do so. She kept people in prison beyond their sentences to use them 1.00

01:03:49.540 as cheap labor for the state of California. I did the work of significantly reforming the criminal

01:03:55.880 justice system of a state of 40 million people. And I am proud of making a decision to not just give

01:04:01.520 fancy speeches. Senator Harris, when you were in a position to make a difference and an impact in

01:04:06.660 these people's lives, you did not. And worse yet, in the case of those who were on death row,

01:04:12.520 innocent people, you actually blocked evidence from being revealed that would have freed them

01:04:17.560 until you were forced to do so. There is no excuse for that. And the people who suffered under your

01:04:23.160 reign as prosecutor, you owe them an apology. My entire career, I have been opposed, personally

01:04:29.460 opposed to the death penalty, and that has never changed. I think you can judge people by when they

01:04:33.680 are under fire. And it's not about some fancy opinion on a stage, but when they're in the position

01:04:38.200 to actually make a decision, what do they do? And fuego. So what do you think the fallout from that

01:04:46.460 was? Well, first of all, I think that across the board, it was recognized in that clip you just

01:04:54.940 played, pointing to Kamala Harris's record, a very clear weakness and vulnerability in not only her

01:05:04.700 record, the facts. I was simply reciting well-known, well-reported facts, not opinions.

01:05:11.840 She didn't even rebut them. She really just kind of said, I'm proud of my record. And then after the

01:05:16.540 fact, when asked, like, oh, what about her, you know, what Tulsi was saying about you, and I quote,

01:05:20.960 she said, well, I'm obviously a top-tier candidate. And a lot of other people are trying to make the stage

01:05:26.660 for the next debate. Again, non-responsive, obnoxious, and non-responsive. Go ahead.

01:05:31.660 And the media allowed her to get away with it and did not press the point of not only her record,

01:05:41.380 but the point that I was making inciting her record was one of leadership and integrity. And

01:05:48.640 when you are in a position to make change, she failed to do so. And for her to run for president,

01:05:57.760 standing proudly on that record that I pointed out, in her words, proud of her record, then there needs

01:06:05.060 to be some very clear examination of exactly what kind of leader and commander-in-chief

01:06:10.000 that she would be. You know, the fallout, there were a lot of different obstacles and challenges

01:06:17.740 that I faced simply because I was willing to say things that no other candidate was willing

01:06:24.480 to say in pointing out the truth. And, you know, another example, one of the main reasons why I

01:06:33.100 ran for president was because of something that we went through here in Hawaii in January of,

01:06:40.260 this was January of 2019, when we had that missile scare.

01:06:47.260 And it was for, for, for, for those who might not remember, it was, it was early on a Saturday

01:06:55.220 morning when our civil defense alerts and alarms started ringing and people got text messages on

01:07:02.020 their phones and the radio started blaring this message that said missile incoming, seek immediate

01:07:08.700 shelter. This is not a drill. And if you can, you know, for, for, for everyone who's listening,

01:07:16.720 just, I asked, just stop and pause for a moment. Think about where you are at this moment. If you got

01:07:21.220 that message, how would you feel and what would be running through your mind? Cause

01:07:26.440 Oh, I'd be like, how did that crazy guy on YouTube get my cell phone number?

01:07:31.160 Right. But for us out here in Hawaii, we're dealing with a very real nuclear capability and

01:07:39.240 threat from North Korea. And so it was, Hey, you've, you've got 15 minutes to live potentially. And,

01:07:47.120 uh, you know, so it was, you know, people racing to try to get to their children. Uh, you know,

01:07:52.760 there, there's a guy who footage was later released of him lowering his, his little girls,

01:07:58.880 probably about eight years old down a manhole thinking that that might be the only place she

01:08:03.560 might be safe. Uh, another parent who sent me an email afterward about his experience in,

01:08:12.360 you know, where we're, we live on the Island of Oahu and he had one child and one part of the

01:08:16.840 Island and another on the other side. And he was in the middle and trying to decide,

01:08:21.940 which of my children am I going to choose to spend the last minutes of my life with?

01:08:29.440 Oh my God. Just absolutely, absolutely terrifying. And this, this, the reality of this, uh, nuclear

01:08:40.860 threat and the, this experience that we all went through was, was a major motivation for me to run

01:08:46.860 for president to bring this issue to the forefront, to, to make sure that no other family or person in

01:08:55.240 this country goes through what we went through to bring the reality of this existential threat of,

01:09:01.400 of, uh, nuclear war and this track that we are on, that's pushing us, you know, leaders pushing us

01:09:06.480 closer and closer to this brink and the consequences of that, uh, you know, really the consequences of

01:09:12.160 nuclear war, utter destruction. And so these are the issues that I was bringing to the forefront,

01:09:17.700 this new cold war and nuclear arms race and the need for real leadership to, to walk us back from

01:09:22.780 the brink. But, um, what I found was that, you know, the mainstream media, they were not interested

01:09:29.400 in, in talking about this or covering it. They were not interested in really talking about

01:09:35.800 serious issues that we face in this country. And instead it really was from the get go for me and

01:09:43.360 my campaign from day one, when I announced my candidacy, as I was on my, on the stage giving my

01:09:50.080 announcement speech, NBC immediately put out an article timed for that moment, um, trying to undermine my

01:09:59.440 character and, and create this caricature that would endure throughout the campaign that somehow

01:10:04.700 Tulsi Gabbard is a favorite of the Russians and no proof, no evidence, no, no base to any of this,

01:10:10.920 but bringing these, these smear attempts and tactics forward to try to undermine, uh, my candidacy and

01:10:18.440 create this narrative that they would hope would cause voters to not pay attention to the substance and,

01:10:24.840 and the real issues that I was bringing forward because, you know, they, they just, they weren't

01:10:29.460 interested. So what you're saying is NBC smeared a powerful independent woman by whom they felt

01:10:36.740 threatened that NBC did that? Sounds, sounds familiar, huh? It's strange to hear. I think you and I have,

01:10:43.340 have more in common than we might, might've realized. Talk about that over drinks in Oahu. Exactly.

01:10:49.240 One of these days. There you go. So, well, that's, that was the thing about your candidacy is that you

01:10:55.020 were electric. You were just fun to watch because you could tell you really didn't give an F. It was

01:11:00.800 just like, boom, here's another truth bomb and boom. And I'm not loyal to this party. I'm loyal to the

01:11:06.900 voters. That's, that's who I'm loyal to. And I can totally relate to that because I always felt like

01:11:11.720 I'm not loyal to Republicans when people would always make news when I get up in the business of a

01:11:16.740 Republican on Fox. Like I got news for you. I'm not loyal to those people. I'm a registered

01:11:20.640 independent just because I work at Fox. I don't feel loyalty toward them. I feel loyalty toward

01:11:24.540 my viewers, toward the truth. And, and it's, it can cause problems in one's life as a, as a news

01:11:30.960 person or as a politician, certainly. And certainly as a, as a, somebody running for the democratic

01:11:35.340 nomination, but there's, um, there's a moral clarity to it that helps you sleep at night. And so what,

01:11:42.040 but the, but the biggest problem for your campaign wasn't it, you didn't catch fire with the voters,

01:11:45.940 but I think it's in part because of this, the second thing, which is the media and the total

01:11:51.000 blackout, the ones who are writing about you, of course, this is the mainstream press is left wing

01:11:55.300 writing bad things. And the ones who control the airwaves weren't giving you any airtime.

01:12:02.340 That's exactly right. And, and that's where, that's where, you know, the, the evidence of this

01:12:08.800 kind of facade of a democracy comes to the forefront because you really have these corporate media

01:12:14.980 interests who are, are, uh, who most care about ratings and entertainment and how they can create

01:12:22.780 conflict, um, you know, on a debate stage or, uh, push, push a narrative that they think will get more

01:12:29.480 eyeballs to their, to their screens. Uh, and I put social media in this category as well, uh, combined with

01:12:37.720 a, uh, a party that, uh, pre-selecting who they wanted voters to hear from. And so that's where

01:12:47.500 you saw a lot of, Hey, you know, they're changing the standards for the debates as they go along.

01:12:52.420 Um, you know, just as, you know, Hey, okay, we're, we're ticking up a little bit in the polls where we

01:12:56.480 think we're going to qualify for another debate. Oh, sorry. Rules changed, you know, the day before

01:13:02.060 or right, right when, uh, you know, those new polls were coming out and, and just other things,

01:13:07.240 you know, the democratic, uh, the DNC saying, Hey, you know, all presidential candidates, if you

01:13:12.100 want to be featured in any of our, our, um, publicity that we're putting out, then you got

01:13:17.380 to fork up. I think it was something like $175,000 to the DNC just to be included in their, you know,

01:13:24.800 social media videos or whatever. And I'm just like, no, I'm not going to do that. You know, I got,

01:13:30.060 you know, people across the country who were giving, you know, five bucks, 10 bucks contributing

01:13:34.980 to my campaign because they believe in the kind of leadership that I'll bring in the message and

01:13:39.160 the truth that I'm, I'm sharing with voters. And, and they're certainly not giving me a whole bunch

01:13:44.940 of money to go and then pass it on to, uh, to the DNC. And, and so ultimately that's where we saw

01:13:51.640 time and time again, even, even small thing, it's not that small, but things that, that went

01:13:57.140 unnoticed. For example, you know, CNN had a bunch of town halls where they featured different

01:14:02.280 candidates. Um, they, they only gave me one. Most of the other candidates had more than one.

01:14:09.820 And someone called me one day and said, Hey, you know, I'm going through my, um, CNN, it's not DVR,

01:14:16.080 but if you go to CNN's, I guess, digital library, they had, uh, you could replay the town halls of all

01:14:23.140 the different candidates. They're like, you're not on here. Like, it's just not, it doesn't exist.

01:14:28.980 There's no option to find your town hall, but I can find every single other Democrat who ran

01:14:33.600 for president on here. And so there, there were, there were things like that and more,

01:14:38.340 more forward blatant things that made it very clear that if the media makes a decision not to allow

01:14:45.700 voters to hear from you, then, um, a voters really don't have the ability to make an informed decision

01:14:54.260 in a true democracy. And, and then be the reality is that if you want to, if you want to talk about

01:15:00.720 issues, if you want to get information to people so they can make this informed decision, then

01:15:04.240 clearly running for office is not the way to do it unless you, you know, you're, you're able to

01:15:09.420 sell fund and you've got hundreds of millions of dollars to actually buy the time to get in front of

01:15:13.560 people. Well, think about it. I mean, like the, what you're saying is a theme, right? Like you're,

01:15:18.380 you're vice chair of the DNC and you can see that they're trying to rig the process to make Hillary

01:15:22.880 win only six debates because she was bad at them when everybody knew what would happen if she were 1.00

01:15:26.940 too exposed. And then, you know, any pushback on that and you get silenced, you get the muzzle

01:15:31.640 slapped on you. And then you join the campaign and you say things that are unorthodox in the democratic

01:15:36.340 party. And suddenly you, you stop getting invitations from the CNNs of the world. And suddenly the

01:15:41.320 debate criteria change and you get pushed off the debate stage. And then you're like, well, where

01:15:46.420 can I go? Who's going to put me on national television? And Fox news is like, we'll take you

01:15:50.120 and they put you on. And then the, your fellow Democrats use that against you on the debate stage

01:15:55.060 by saying, this is somebody who's been on Fox news multiple times. I mean, right. It must've been

01:15:59.320 so frustrating for you. It was incredibly frustrating and, and really a feeling of helplessness.

01:16:04.900 Um, both because of, of the blackouts, uh, the media blackouts and the, the kind of just exactly

01:16:13.780 what you talked to like, Oh, you're going on Fox news, Fox news, Fox news. Well, I haven't gotten

01:16:17.680 any invitations to talk on CNN or MSNBC lately. Happy to go and talk to everyone, whoever will listen

01:16:24.060 and give me a platform. Uh, but using that, using that as a point of, of criticism. And then, like you

01:16:29.920 said, the, the, the coverage that, that I often got was, um, smears or lies or attempts

01:16:36.800 to destroy my reputation, even, even undermining my, my loyalty to the country that I'm willing

01:16:47.300 to die for, which was the most, most hurtful thing, uh, for me, both when Hillary Clinton

01:16:54.600 said it, uh, that, that's not the Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset. And when the media, uh, pushed

01:17:01.880 that narrative. All right, let me stop you there. Cause I want to play some sound bites. So the

01:17:06.920 audience is with us. So true to the threat that had been recognized by your friends at MSNBC years

01:17:14.340 earlier, Hillary Clinton did lie in wait for you all those years. That's what I think. Um, just everyone

01:17:21.700 knows how she operates. She's a snake. And by the way, her daughter's a snake too. I don't care. I 0.98

01:17:26.500 said it. Um, and you run for president and she's over there in the wings and no longer having a 1.00

01:17:34.960 chance to be president. And she goes on the podcast, I think of David Plouffe who worked for her, for her

01:17:40.320 husband or no, who worked for Obama, worked for Obama. Yeah. And says this, I'm not making any

01:17:45.460 predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who's currently in the democratic

01:17:49.380 primary and are grooming her to be the third party candidate. She's the favorite of the Russians.

01:17:55.280 They have a bunch of, you know, sites and bots and other, uh, ways of supporting her so far. Uh,

01:18:04.160 and I'm that that's assuming Jill Stein will give it up, which she might not. Cause she's also a 1.00

01:18:10.540 Russian, uh, asset. And there we go. Now, as they say, and Bob's your uncle, the Tulsi Gabbard is, 0.59

01:18:18.440 uh, is a Russian agent thing was off to the races. And do you think that was what really gave it

01:18:26.200 fuel? I know it had been buzzing around a bit before that, but was that the moment?

01:18:30.980 There's no question to have former secretary of state, you know, former presidential candidate,

01:18:37.500 former U S Senator, former first lady using her platform to make this incredibly offensive 1.00

01:18:45.940 offensive and baseless accusation, uh, that continued to be cited over and over and over and

01:18:56.200 over again. Uh, that again, personally wasn't incredibly, um, hurtful, but also hurtful in the

01:19:05.940 sense that someone of her influence would so easily make that accusation against, I, I still wear the

01:19:13.960 uniform. I'm still serving in the army reserve, someone who wears the country's uniform, who's

01:19:18.120 deployed twice to the middle East, who serving as a member of Congress and, you know, you know,

01:19:24.920 in rooms where we receive top secret national security briefings to a member of the armed services

01:19:30.660 committee to, to so easily toss that out. Um, may sent, sent the message very clearly that

01:19:41.560 if they can do this to me, they can do this to anyone who dares to criticize her or the establishment,

01:19:53.640 the mainstream dares to speak the truth about issues, especially directly related to our national security

01:20:03.560 and, and when and where our men and women in uniform are sent into battle. Um, this, you will be punished.

01:20:12.360 You will be punished. You will be smeared and your patriotism will be, um, impugned.

01:20:22.080 And that was, you know, I mean, I, I had people who as, as I was traveling and campaigning, I remember there

01:20:27.640 was a woman who came up to me in South Carolina at a small little event in a very small rural community.

01:20:33.500 And she was, she was, um, uh, older African-American woman. She came up to me and, and she grabbed my 1.00

01:20:40.660 shoulders and looked me in the eye. Our faces were just a few inches apart. And she said, Tulsi,

01:20:46.940 I need to know, are you working for Russia? She was completely serious and concerned.

01:20:58.300 Because of what she had heard. And I, you know, I very seriously, I looked her straight

01:21:05.640 in the eyes and I said, I am willing to die for my country.

01:21:14.200 What that country is. We'll talk about later. No, I mean, like, it's just so absurd.

01:21:19.740 It is absurd and dangerous.

01:21:22.020 So both parties do this. Of course, we saw this done to Obama, that he was a Muslim,

01:21:26.760 that he really was an American when he was running. But the difference is the leadership

01:21:31.420 on the GOP side, then John McCain at the time stood up and said at that now famous town hall,

01:21:37.600 no, ma'am, no, he's not, you know? And now you have the head of the democratic party, at least

01:21:44.080 she was for years saying fanning the flames with absolutely zero basis. It's just, she just wanted

01:21:51.460 to hurt you. And then, and then, as you know, and as you point out her media allies, I mean,

01:21:56.580 honestly, I, I, I sort of said that they are allies, the Democrats, but that's the same thing.

01:22:01.360 You know, the media, the Democrats are the same thing. Run out to do her bidding. And the view 0.99

01:22:06.040 was parroting her lines about you. And then they made the stupid blunder of having you on 1.00

01:22:14.060 and letting you rest control of the microphone. And let's just play that. So the audience could hear 1.00

01:22:20.200 you've been skeptical, skeptical, uh, more than a lot of the Democrats about the impeachment inquiry.

01:22:25.680 Were you surprised by what he did yesterday? Uh, well, look, the facts are important and,

01:22:31.180 uh, we'll get to that. I want to start with something that I think is also important,

01:22:34.060 uh, about facts because recently on your show here, some of you have accused me of being a, 0.97

01:22:42.040 uh, a traitor to my country, a Russian asset, a Trojan horse, uh, or a useful, a useful idiot, 0.95

01:22:49.560 I think was the term that you used, which basically means that I'm naive or, or lack intelligence to 1.00

01:22:55.300 know what's going on. I want to let, I want to let your viewers know exactly who I am.

01:23:00.080 All right. Set the record straight. I am a patriot. I love our country. I am a strong and

01:23:06.740 intelligent woman of color. And I have dedicated almost my entire adult life to protecting the

01:23:14.580 safety, security, and the freedom of all Americans in this country. It was the attacks on 9-11.

01:23:19.420 That was amazing. You, you won over that audience. They were, they were on your side when you were

01:23:28.080 done. Yeah. I think they saw through it. How dare they? And, and by the way, Hillary Clinton's 0.97

01:23:36.020 husband spent the late sixties and early seventies doing everything he could to avoid getting drafted

01:23:40.840 and going to serve our country in Vietnam. You, uh, you, you took the opposite route. You saw a

01:23:47.060 conflict going on and said, put me in coach. Let me go help my country. You know, so the nerve for

01:23:52.140 her to turn around and look at you as a traitor to your country, as someone not willing to serve,

01:23:57.120 as someone willing to serve an adversary, it's, it's gotta be deeply offensive.

01:24:02.560 It, it was, it was deeply offensive, personally hurtful, um, hurtful to my candidacy. And the most

01:24:12.980 dangerous part of it was again, the message that was sent loud and clear, whether you're someone who

01:24:21.100 wants to run for office or you're someone who is speaking up and daring to speak the truth and,

01:24:28.080 and challenge the kind of, of, uh, uh, warmongering record that Hillary Clinton has, then these very 0.99

01:24:37.360 powerful people who have such control over our politics and our media will punish you. There

01:24:44.740 will be consequences and direct personal consequences that speak to smearing your character and your

01:24:51.600 reputation, which, which, um, those things are not, you know, how do you, how do you fix that?

01:24:58.080 What, once you have someone in that position of power and influence coupled with the media

01:25:02.480 perpetuating that lie, what do you do? I mean, and this is where I felt like I felt like I was in

01:25:08.800 the middle of a war where the other side had aircraft carriers and fighter jets and nuclear submarines.

01:25:18.760 And I'm sitting here with a squirt gun trying to fight back. Yeah. You know, I hate to say this,

01:25:28.080 but it reminds me a little of Trump and in a way you remind me a little bit of Trump and I'm sure

01:25:34.640 you're not a Trump fan, but let me just explain, like he's anti-establishment. He's somewhat of a

01:25:40.160 populist. He's an anti-interventionalist. He's definitely an unconventional politician. He

01:25:45.920 doesn't, you know, I, I was at the debate where Brett asked him, you know, everybody up here, raise

01:25:50.800 your hand if, if you might not, or if you, if you will definitely support the ultimate Republican

01:25:56.440 nominee, whoever it is, even if it's not you. And he was the only one like, no, I'm not promising.

01:26:02.400 That's like you, you would have the guts to do that too. I don't, do you see what I'm talking about?

01:26:08.020 Do you see any similarities between you and Trump?

01:26:09.800 Uh, I, I hesitate to agree with that, but, but look, there, there, there are, um, there are

01:26:16.760 things that, that Trump did, uh, as president that, that substantive issues that I agreed with

01:26:21.780 him on things that decisions that he made that I agreed with him on. There are substantive things

01:26:25.620 that, that he obviously spoke of and did that I strongly disagreed on. And I, I spoke out in both

01:26:31.620 of those instances. Uh, I did the same with, with president Obama. You know, there were things that

01:26:37.120 he did. I disagreed with, and, and I was oftentimes one of the only Democrats, if not the only

01:26:41.640 Democrats to speak out and say, Hey, this is wrong. This is not what we should be doing. And then

01:26:45.940 similarly, you know, if there were things I agreed with, I also spoke out on that just being a fair

01:26:50.540 arbiter and, and again, staying focused on issues. Um, and just, and just by the way, that was one of

01:26:55.780 the things Kamala Harris tried to use against you on the debate stage. She's like, she spent four years 1.00

01:27:00.020 going on Fox news to criticize president Obama. So you didn't spend four years doing it, but when you

01:27:03.880 disagreed with him, you spoke up, that's what we want. We don't want these automatons in these

01:27:08.520 positions who are just loyal to the party, loyal to the party and cult followers. Really? I mean,

01:27:12.740 that's kind of what it becomes is, is if you're, if you're guy or gal is in charge, then, you know,

01:27:19.300 you automatically put on these blinders that, that, that everything that is done is, is good and,

01:27:25.120 and, and cannot be criticized. I mean, that that's, that's ridiculous. And, and it flies in the face of 0.97

01:27:30.500 what I think we, the American people would hope is that when we vote for somebody, we're voting for

01:27:35.080 someone who will lead, who will lead and serve and put the interests of the American people first,

01:27:40.680 not the political party. That's not who we take an oath to. And we take that oath of office.

01:27:45.380 That oath is to support and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies,

01:27:52.420 foreign and domestic. There is no political party mentioned in there at all. And that again is,

01:27:58.640 that's, that's where our leadership has gone. So gotten so far from, you know, you take that oath

01:28:05.620 every time you're, you're elected or reelected, but are, are, are, are, you know, are they really

01:28:11.260 listening to and taking to heart what that means? And, and unfortunately we're seeing more and more

01:28:16.460 that that's not the case. What do you think this, that, that comment we're sent here to lead

01:28:21.120 reminded me of AOC? Cause I know she ripped on you after you voted present on the first impeachment 1.00

01:28:26.080 vote. You were, you'd already left by the time the second impeachment came. Who knows if Trump had

01:28:30.560 won re-election, how many impeachments could we have had? We could like once every quarter.

01:28:35.960 Um, yeah. Anyway, you voted present. I understood your explanation was basically you, you thought he

01:28:40.420 hadn't behaved well, but you weren't ready to say it was an impeachable offense, that phone call with

01:28:44.360 the Ukrainians. Um, and, and primarily just to add, add quickly to that, that because look,

01:28:51.080 we're, we're in the midst of, of a campaign for president and, and I saw shenanigans on both sides,

01:28:58.160 Democrats and Republicans were playing the partisan line on this whole issue of impeachment, both sides

01:29:03.440 unwilling to, to really be reasonable and actually examine the facts. Um, and, and therefore what the

01:29:10.760 Democrats are doing, we're, we're, we're pushing towards actually trying to undermine the American

01:29:15.140 people's ability to make the decision for themselves. And obviously I was running for president and I

01:29:19.800 believe that Donald Trump should not be reelected as president. And I was running to bring the

01:29:24.540 leadership that I could bring, but understanding the importance of the American people making that

01:29:28.880 decision and not setting this precedent of, uh, that, that, that our founding fathers actually

01:29:35.500 warned against if, if impeachment were pursued for partisan interest, then you're, you're undermining

01:29:40.300 the foundations of our democracy where voters will lose faith that, that, that their votes actually

01:29:46.620 matter. Because what, what's the point if you vote and you elect somebody and the losing party

01:29:51.960 immediately starts to move to, to, to, you know, throw that, that person out of office, what's the

01:29:57.540 point of having an election? Exactly. And that, that was what, that was the point that I was trying to

01:30:01.940 make. All right. So what'd you think of her ripping on you for voting present saying we are set here to 0.99

01:30:08.380 lead. She didn't listen to what I was saying. I don't, you know, I, I honestly, I didn't give it,

01:30:14.160 I didn't give it a much mind. Um, she's somebody who does buck her own party. You know, she comes 0.99

01:30:19.980 at it from the, she's farther left than somebody like Pelosi. Uh, so she's not, she's no way a 0.69

01:30:26.320 Republican. She doesn't have positions that, you know, she could work across the aisle on for the 1.00

01:30:30.260 most part. But what do you think, what do you think of her? She gets a lot of attention. She's

01:30:34.520 smart at using social media, but very, very polarizing. Um, look, I think when it comes right

01:30:40.000 down to it, uh, even as her positions may differ from the democratic leadership in some areas,

01:30:48.360 uh, now that she's been in Congress for a little while, it's become clear that, um, you know, she,

01:30:56.460 she's towing the line and playing the same partisan game that too many other politicians are playing. 1.00

01:31:01.300 And, uh, you know, there, there's been some recent examples of that where there've been some overtures.

01:31:05.460 I think recently Ted Cruz reached out on Twitter and said, Hey, let's work together

01:31:10.340 on an issue. And she, she basically said, screw you. You tried to murder me. She said, 0.99

01:31:17.460 exactly. Exactly. Lord. So I, you know, it's just, yeah, I, I, you could say that. I think,

01:31:27.160 I think that's been one of the, you know, you've seen it from her and we've seen it from some other

01:31:30.540 people in the aftermath of January 6th. Unfortunately, members of Congress painting

01:31:36.340 themselves as the victim and drawing attention to themselves rather than saying, okay, how can

01:31:43.620 we be a part of the healing solution to help unify a country that's been so torn apart?

01:31:53.640 Well, she was, yeah, she's done exactly the opposite of that. I mean, she was one of the

01:31:57.720 ones saying, let's get a list of all the Trump supporters. Let's punish the people who are in

01:32:01.620 the, in the administration. I know you've been pretty outspoken about that, which is how wrong

01:32:06.140 this like punish the Trump inner circle and not just the inner circle, but condemn everyone who

01:32:12.540 voted for him as awful, right? Nazis, Hitlers, white supremacists, whatever you want to say. 0.99

01:32:17.420 Um, I don't know. It doesn't seem to have stopped. They, they still seem determined to dismiss 0.97

01:32:22.800 all Republicans as awful. They want to cancel Fox news. They continue to go after any conservative,

01:32:27.820 you know, like podcasting and websites and parlor was taken down. I just, it's all part of the same

01:32:33.840 thing. Demonization of other and silencing of other. I think it's one of the greatest threats we face as a

01:32:40.500 country right now. I completely agree. And it, it, it, it threatens and undermines that constitutional

01:32:49.460 foundation that our country was built upon. And that dehumanization, uh, that vilification,

01:32:56.720 um, goes straight to the heart of it. You know, we, we, our, our founders created this institution

01:33:04.420 in our government that would be a government of by and for the people. And in order for that to work,

01:33:12.620 that depends on a free society with an open marketplace of ideas where we, every one of us

01:33:19.720 has that freedom of expression, that freedom of speech. We can debate issues. We can discuss them.

01:33:24.960 We can argue our points in this, in this open marketplace of ideas, one party arguing their

01:33:30.940 ideas being superior. The others arguing theirs is superior. And ultimately we, as voters, we,

01:33:37.940 the people get to cast our votes based on what we're hearing and the decisions that we feel

01:33:42.120 would best serve America. But what we're seeing now, which is so incredibly dangerous is that the

01:33:49.220 people who hold these positions of power are trying to censor and filter what we can hear,

01:33:56.000 uh, what we can read, what we can safely talk about without fear of losing our jobs or, or being, 0.99

01:34:02.060 you know, canceled and, and pretty directly showing us that, you know, they think that we're too stupid

01:34:11.580 to actually gather information, to be discerning, to process it and form our own opinions, 0.73

01:34:18.520 which really exposes their fear, you know, that, that they don't want us to hear other views

01:34:24.280 because, you know, we might actually agree with them and their fear and insecurity that they don't

01:34:31.700 actually have confidence in the strength of their own positions, their policies, their values or

01:34:36.300 philosophies. And so, so, you know, they're, they're worried that they won't be able to convince

01:34:41.100 the people, um, that their way is the right way. So what's the alternative? And the alternative is

01:34:47.100 like, well, we're just going to silence the other side and force you to only hear this view that,

01:34:53.620 that we deem as acceptable. And, and when you actually like, like describing this, is this a

01:35:00.860 democracy? No, this is what we have, what we see happening in dictatorships in other countries.

01:35:05.840 But I think that's interesting. It's not, it's not, it's not just that they don't like what Fox

01:35:12.260 News is saying or Republicans or right-leaning people are saying, it's that they're afraid it

01:35:18.900 will win. Like that's, that's a, that's a good next step in the argument, right? Like they're afraid

01:35:23.820 it will have power and it will pull people over. And I think, you know, you, you've talked about

01:35:30.380 this, but I think it lines up with something you said earlier and this same theme, which is

01:35:35.400 at all costs, avoid giving the other side a win. And, and like when criminal justice reform was

01:35:41.500 pushed through by the Trump administration and Jared Kushner working with Van Jones, who is

01:35:45.100 no fan of Trump instead of saying like, yeah, right on. Okay. We're going to get one of our goals

01:35:50.520 accomplished in this Republican administration. Bring it. You've said that behind the scenes,

01:35:55.620 they were like, hell no, don't, this will give Trump a win. We don't, we don't want him to have

01:36:00.040 this. Yeah. And, and, you know, people's lives be damned families separated from their loved ones who

01:36:08.680 are, you know, either wrongfully incarcerated or, or, or incarcerated for far too long for a, you know, 0.69

01:36:14.660 a minor nonviolent drug violation. You know, we, we don't actually really care about them.

01:36:18.740 What we care most about, they say, is that we must stop Trump from being able to stand at a podium

01:36:26.660 and saying to the American people, Hey, look what I did for you. And it was heartbreaking,

01:36:31.920 especially that, that, that bill, the first step act, as it was going through the process, it was,

01:36:36.280 it was a rare, but really beautiful example of, of, you know, a progressive Democrat,

01:36:42.380 um, Hakeem Jeffries in the house working with a very conservative Republican, Doug Collins,

01:36:49.240 uh, from Georgia. I'm friends with both of them. And they teamed up to work on this legislation,

01:36:54.620 working with the white house, working with Jared Kushner, Van Jones, the, the, the Koch foundation,

01:37:00.600 bringing together this, this incredible coalition of people who normally are at each other's throats

01:37:07.700 saying, this is an opportunity to make some real change that will literally change people's lives

01:37:15.400 and getting attacked on both sides from members of their own party who are more interested in the

01:37:21.480 politics of it rather than actually doing something. And so, you know, on the Senate, uh, in the Senate,

01:37:27.440 you had, you know, uh, Senator Kamala Harris and Cory Booker trying to, uh, attack the effort. And then

01:37:33.320 you had Senator Tom Cotton trying to attack the effort. You had, you had these forces coming in

01:37:37.680 who, um, who, who cared more about the political consequences than they cared about passing legislation

01:37:46.380 that, um, that, that literally, uh, has, has, I mean, has sent people home to their children and

01:37:52.560 their grandchildren. Uh, it's changed thousands of people's thousands of people's lives. And thank God

01:37:58.440 if you don't support it, right? Like I get that position. Like I don't support it. I don't want to let

01:38:02.520 criminals out early. I think they got what they deserve that, that we've heard that many, many

01:38:06.020 times when it comes to criminal justice reform, but I, I support it. I just don't want it to happen

01:38:11.520 under Trump because he'll use it when he runs again is disgusting. And, and it's, it's one of 0.63

01:38:17.480 those things where it's like, and they, they don't understand why the American people are so willing

01:38:23.720 to believe that the Democrats would cheat to get him not elected. You know what I mean? Like the,

01:38:28.400 one of the reasons the Republican voters have such skepticism over the last election

01:38:31.940 is they believe these Democrats would do anything to defeat him, anything. And it's examples like

01:38:39.540 that, that back it up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is, it is, it is transparent. Um, I think more and

01:38:50.940 more increasingly transparent, uh, to voters, this win at all costs, uh, mentality. Yeah. You know,

01:38:57.980 which goes to a whole other issue, just mentioning quickly on, on election integrity, uh, which,

01:39:02.820 which kind of speaks to this same point because, um, election integrity is incredibly important.

01:39:09.760 This is something that for, for, you know, the years leading up to 2020, um, I, and, and some others

01:39:15.380 were, were very focused on, especially when there was a demonstrated vulnerability in electronic voting

01:39:22.180 systems that left it open to hackers, easily being able to go in and manipulate vote counts.

01:39:29.380 And once we recognize this vulnerability, you know, I introduced legislation called the Securing

01:39:34.260 America's Elections Act, um, that very simply said, if you're using an electronic system, because states

01:39:40.600 are in control of administering elections, if you're using an electronic system, you need to have

01:39:45.960 a voter verified paper backup of the vote, every vote that's cast, uh, or just have paper ballots.

01:39:53.740 And this, this legislation would have helped provide funding to states to be able to implement

01:39:58.780 this in time for, you know, monumental election in, in 2020. And, and, you know, for all, all of those

01:40:07.720 who may be talking about election integrity after the fact, uh, where were they in actually passing

01:40:14.880 my legislation or legislation like it to fix it, to actually prevent the problem again, real solutions

01:40:23.560 versus partisan rhetoric, uh, and noise, I think is the difference. Yep, exactly. Do you have any doubt

01:40:32.380 that Joe Biden was fairly elected president? No, I don't have any doubt. You don't. Okay. So you

01:40:38.460 accept that election results is fair. Yeah. Yeah. I accept the election results is fair. Do you look at the

01:40:44.400 vote counts? Um, you know, I, I just, you know, every step of the way you, you progressively started

01:40:50.980 to see that, that Joe Biden won the election, there was no cracking. Yeah, no, but, but I, I, and I will

01:40:59.040 also mention, um, that the issue of election integrity, uh, preexisted any of that and ensuring that

01:41:10.020 people have confidence in the outcome of our elections is integral to people having confidence

01:41:14.640 in our government and who we are as a country. Yeah. Right. The results. Yeah. So speaking of

01:41:20.420 confidence, what do you think of Joe Biden's? Is it a lot of us are wondering about his mental

01:41:26.540 faculties and whether he's all there? Um, I don't, I don't have any, um, question or concern there.

01:41:36.220 You know, I've, I've known him for a long time and got to talk to him, you know, before I ran for

01:41:39.680 president and during the campaigns. Um, the thing that, that I am most concerned about is something

01:41:46.560 you touched on a few minutes ago, which is, uh, he delivered a very powerful message of unity in his

01:41:52.640 inauguration speech. And he talked about reaching out to all Americans, including those who did not vote

01:42:01.260 for him. And he has a great responsibility to carry out that promise, which is what our country needs

01:42:12.060 most right now is that kind of unifying leadership. And my concern is that, you know, here we are a

01:42:19.980 little over what a month out from the day that that speech was delivered. And what I see from, uh,

01:42:27.820 the leadership there in Washington is that it's going from bad to worse. Uh, you know, you, you

01:42:35.680 actually see, and again, it's, it's hard to, I, my last day in Congress was January 3rd and here we are

01:42:41.880 now several weeks later and you actually have, you know, Nancy Pelosi saying that, you know, Republicans

01:42:49.200 are the enemy within it's, it's, it's, it's mind it's, it's, it's hard to fathom how quickly things have gone

01:43:00.960 from bad to worse and how, how, you know, if you follow that train of thought that Republicans are the enemy

01:43:12.340 within walking the halls of Congress, according to Nancy Pelosi and AOC and, and other Democrats,

01:43:20.720 then naturally, if anybody works with Republicans or reaches out to them or has a conversation with

01:43:27.040 Republicans, then they're traitors. You have to be considered traitors. And it, it's, it's, it's, um,

01:43:36.640 it makes me sad. It makes me so sad. And, and it's so disheartening, uh, to see this happening because

01:43:45.200 it, it defies, you know, those, those quotes that are beautifully written in the halls of Congress

01:43:52.500 that speak to the heart and the core of, of the United States of America and who we are and what we,

01:44:00.000 what we together stand for and to see this happening. Um, it, it is, it, it, it's, it's

01:44:07.860 heartbreaking. Is that why you didn't run again? I didn't run again because I made that decision in

01:44:15.780 October. I think it was October of 2019. Uh, because I, I, it was a practical decision. I had

01:44:20.980 to make a choice. I was either going to continue running for president or, uh, run for reelection.

01:44:25.100 I couldn't do both. Um, I would have failed at doing both if I had, if I had tried. And I, I,

01:44:31.900 I, you know, I was running for president for very real reasons and, uh, chose to pursue that path.

01:44:38.100 And so announced at that time that, that I wasn't running again.

01:44:41.860 So now what, right. I mean, yeah, you're starting a podcast, which is exciting,

01:44:45.820 but like, what's the, what is that the, is that the plan or is there a bigger plan or are we going to

01:44:51.460 see you back on the national stage when it comes to 2024? Um, the short answer is, is, um,

01:45:00.740 I don't know. I'm not thinking about, I'm certainly not thinking about 2024, um, at all right now. I'm,

01:45:08.060 I'm really focused on how I can best continue to serve. You know, my, my core motivation

01:45:15.440 has always been and continues to be, how can I use my life somehow or other in, um, service of God to

01:45:26.560 be pleasing to God and what better way to be pleasing to God and make him happy than to work

01:45:32.460 for the wellbeing of, of God's children and, and, and, uh, this planet. And that's, that's for me,

01:45:38.260 it's something that I realized from a young age. That's what makes me most happy in my life. And,

01:45:44.160 and not knowing, um, you know, how, how much time I have in this life, I want to make the most of,

01:45:54.260 of it and know that, you know, whether my time comes, you know, in a week or if it comes in 20 years,

01:46:03.420 that at whatever point that comes, then I, I will find peace in knowing that I've done all I can,

01:46:09.580 uh, to be pleasing to God. And there's so many ways to be of service, whether it's in political

01:46:13.200 office, outside of political office. And, and I'm excited right now, you know, I'm continuing to

01:46:17.280 serve in the army reserves as a civil affairs officer. I'm excited about, uh, launching my podcast.

01:46:22.680 Uh, it's, it's going to be called, this is Tulsi Gabbard because it will be me unfiltered and,

01:46:28.040 and, um, having, you know, conversations and addressing issues that I think are, are really

01:46:33.980 important. And that again, as, as we have pointed out so clearly, the media, the mainstream media

01:46:39.940 is not interested in talking about. And, and so it'll be an amazing opportunity to be able to speak

01:46:45.220 directly to people and with people and, and kind of bringing to the forefront, something that I did

01:46:51.780 experience, the most amazing thing I experienced in the presidential campaign, but also throughout my

01:46:56.700 time serving in the military and traveling to different parts of the world is that, you know,

01:47:02.840 what we may have very different backgrounds may come from different places. You may worship

01:47:07.000 differently. We may, you know, have different views or different politics that, that we really have,

01:47:12.620 uh, so much more in common than, than we do, um, different. And that when we can get back to that

01:47:20.980 place, then my gosh, like, you know, there there's, there's so much good that can be done and so much,

01:47:30.240 um, progress that we can make just as people. Well, I mean, I think a, you're going to be a big

01:47:37.080 success because you have authenticity and, you know, it's gotten you in trouble and it's going to

01:47:42.660 make you successful, right? Like it's the flip sides of the same coin. You're authentically you,

01:47:48.060 no matter the circumstances. I think people will love that. And I think, you know, I relate to what

01:47:53.200 you just said because I, you're clearly not far left. I say you're center left and I'm a center

01:47:58.240 right. And I, I see you, I feel like I'm right over here at six and you're over there at four.

01:48:03.000 And I think most of the nation is with us here. Most of the nation is, you know, between three and

01:48:08.100 seven. And, but like the ones with the loudest microphones are way over there at nine and 10 and

01:48:12.740 one and two, and it's annoying. So it's good to have more people like you out there to just to

01:48:19.160 remind folks, it's not all a bunch of lunatics out there driving policy, driving the national

01:48:24.540 discussion. You know, there are a lot of things that you sound more like a Republican on and,

01:48:28.760 and maybe, you know, I, I might sound more like a Democrat on some of the social issues in particular.

01:48:34.160 Oh, and by the way, my, my executive producer reminds me, we wanted to ask you a question from one of

01:48:39.380 our listeners. One of our Instagram followers actually submitted this and it's by the way,

01:48:45.060 the Instagram is at, at Megan Kelly show. If you want to submit a question and here's the question

01:48:50.000 to you, would you ever consider being on a bipartisan ticket for president slash vice president? That's

01:48:57.120 from Tamari 12. I would. And here's why my mission has always been putting country first.

01:49:04.520 So if I have the opportunity to serve my country in a way that I feel I can make a real difference,

01:49:10.960 of course I would consider that opportunity very seriously. Oh, I'd love to see that.

01:49:16.800 Being limited by the confines of, of partisanship flies in the face of the core of my being and,

01:49:26.000 and who I am. And, um, so that that's an easy answer. Would you do it if the top of the ticket were Trump

01:49:34.520 no? And, and, and there's, there's, there's a whole lot of reasons why. Um, I was so excited

01:49:43.640 for my followup. I just thought of that one. Well, again, there's a, again, my, my, of course there

01:49:51.140 are limits and, and I, you know, whether if I were asked to be on a ticket by a Democrat or a Republican,

01:49:57.300 I would, it would not be an immediate, uh, yes or no in either case, because I would want to focus on,

01:50:07.320 uh, look, I'm, I'm not interested in being somebody's arm candy. I'm not interested in

01:50:11.460 being, uh, you know, okay, well, we'll, we'll put you out there up front and, but you don't actually

01:50:15.980 get to do anything. I would want to make sure wherever I am in politics, outside of politics,

01:50:20.940 that I'm in a place where I can actually, um, make the kind of positive change that I am seeking

01:50:29.320 to do with my life. And if that's not the case, I really don't care about the title or the job.

01:50:34.580 If I can't do something with it, that's positive, that will serve our country, then

01:50:38.640 pass and I'll go, I'll, I'll find some place that I can.

01:50:42.800 Now I got to end with this and forgive me if this is an inappropriate question. Um, but you,

01:50:47.640 you're almost 40, right? You turn 40 in like a week, April something or a month. Yeah. A month.

01:50:53.920 Okay. Um, you got married just a couple of years ago. You got some time off. So what do you think?

01:51:02.860 Do you, is motherhood in your future plans? God willing, as they say, this, this is maybe a,

01:51:11.100 a longer conversation we can have another time, but, uh, my husband and I will be celebrating our

01:51:16.340 sixth anniversary also in April, a few days before my birthday. And, um, you know, I, I,

01:51:23.700 I would love, we would both love to be parents. I'd love to be a mother and, and you, you, I think

01:51:29.540 especially could, could, um, understand the very real conversation around the choices that we make,

01:51:36.620 uh, as women in our lives. And yeah, but I, you know, things are lining up for you perfectly right

01:51:42.740 now. I mean, not that it's any of my business, but as I speak in a capacity as a friend and not an

01:51:48.520 interviewer, this is the time you got like a couple of years, even if you decide to do something in

01:51:53.040 2024, uh, go for it. I had my kids for what it's worth at age 38, 40 and 42. So it definitely can be

01:52:02.920 done. I mean, I'm, I think I'm probably more tired than like my assistant Abigail who had her kids a lot

01:52:08.200 younger than I did. Um, but that's what, you know, you get help for and you don't have to do it all

01:52:12.980 on your own. And you, you just, you are one of those human beings who must reproduce. There can 0.97

01:52:18.100 Tulsi cannot be the end of the Tulsi gene pool. That just can't be. Thank you.

01:52:24.080 Well, I'm totally rooting for you. I can't wait until the podcast starts. When is it starting?

01:52:28.220 Um, I'm recording some shows actually this week. I'm trying to get a few recorded before we launch,

01:52:33.360 but I'm, I'm hoping it'll be in the next week or so. So soon, very, very soon.

01:52:38.200 Awesome. Can't wait. And good luck with it. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, Megan. It's been so

01:52:44.680 great to talk to you. Today's episode was brought to you in part by Norton 360 with LifeLock.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - February 26, 2021

Tulsi Gabbard on How Washington Really Works, Clashing with Clinton and Kamala, And Her Political Future ｜ Ep. 69

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