Tulsi Gabbard on Investigating the Leaks, Fighting the Deep State, and Whether She'll Run in 2028 ｜ Ep. 1061
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 12 minutes
Words per Minute
172.31978
Summary
Tulsi Gabbard is the first woman to become Director of National Intelligence, a position she has held since she was appointed by President Bill Clinton in 2016. She is also a former member of the House of Representatives, where she served as a key vote on the Armed Services Committee.
Transcript
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We like to walk that fine line between techno thriller
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Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
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We have a very special program for you this morning.
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When I first met Tulsi, she was still a Democrat.
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When she first came on this show, we didn't even have video.
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And you could hear her with the birds tweeting in the background
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And the two of us were wondering what our next move was in life.
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She had been ostracized by the Democrats and the Democrat Party.
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And here we are five years later, both in very different places.
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She's now running at the top of 18 intelligence agencies.
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And I'm down here interviewing her at the office of the Director of National Intelligence.
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So many did not want her to get this post because while Hillary Clinton and others accused her
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of being Putin's puppet, etc., what crushes them about Tulsi Gabbard is she's no one's puppet.
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She won't be bought, she won't be bullied, and she won't be cowed in saying how she really feels
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by the military-industrial complex or anyone else.
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So we just completed a fascinating hour-long talk about so many different things.
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It's Tulsi like you've seen her a bit before, you know, still straightforward and moving and
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honest in her commentary, but in a brand new, really big role.
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This July, there is a global summit of BRICS nations in Rio de Janeiro, the bloc of emerging
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As BRICS nations push forward with their plans, global demand for U.S. dollars will decrease,
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bringing down the value of the dollars in your savings, potentially.
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While this transition won't happen overnight, the Rio Reset in July marks a pivotal moment
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when BRICS' objectives move decisively from theoretical possibility toward inevitable reality,
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Tulsi Gabbard, I'm so excited to be here with you.
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Yes. So we're sitting here in the lobby of the buildings known as Liberty Crossing of the
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Office of Director of National Intelligence. This organization was formed because of the disaster
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of the intelligence community that could have prevented the attack on 9-11 had there been
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an integration of intelligence. Had the CIA been talking to the FBI and all of these different
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people who had different pieces of information but weren't talking to and sharing that information
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intelligence with each other followed by the intelligence failure of the Iraq war that
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ultimately led to the creation of this organization. So we're sitting here in the lobby. This is the
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very first interview that's ever been done in this lobby and potentially in this building anywhere.
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It's a special day. And this is the 20th anniversary of the founding of this organization.
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As a result of all that. Now you oversee 18 intelligence agencies.
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Can I just ask you as a practical matter, you come in, you had a background in intelligence when you
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were in the House. It's not like you'd never touched it.
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In, I was on the Armed Services and the Foreign Affairs Committee. So it was interesting as a member of
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Congress there for eight years on those subject matter committees, I was a customer of intelligence.
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intelligence very frequently, some of the highest levels of intelligence as well as kind of the
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broader intelligence briefings that we had. And so I, at that time, experienced a level of
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frustration that's common if you were to ask most members of Congress in that the briefings that we
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received then more often than not were things that we had already read about in the newspapers,
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seen on the news the night before, and just didn't get much value from it to better inform the
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decisions that we had to make related to our military or military operations or foreign policy
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decisions. And, and that was, you know, I, I left Congress and my last day was January 3rd of 2021.
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And as I was going through the confirmation process for this job, and I was meeting with the
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different senators, it was interesting that they expressed that same frustration to me. And many of
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these senators were members of the intelligence committee, which really spoke to, um, how much
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work, uh, there is to do still. So you show up here, you get confirmed. Yeah. I mean, what's the
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first thing that happened as a practical matter? Do you say like, let me see the JFK files? Like,
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what do you do? I have a long list of things I'm working through. Uh, but honestly, the, the first thing that
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I did was actually, uh, uh, uh, send out an email to, uh, all the people who work here and said,
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I'll be down here in this lobby where we are right now. Uh, I think it was at 12 o'clock. And, uh,
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if you're free, I'd love to come and introduce myself and say, hello. Uh, it was standing room
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only here. I was grateful, uh, to be able to have the opportunity to just immediately address those who
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work here, uh, intelligence professionals, analysts, people who are subject matter experts in
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different areas, some of the support staff who are here and kind of keep the lights on.
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Um, and, and they gave me a very warm welcome. And I laid out, uh, who I am, my background and the
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mandate that the American people delivered, uh, by electing Donald Trump and, and why I'm here,
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the purpose that we all are here for to serve the American people, to ensure their safety, security,
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and freedom first and foremost. And let me just tell you this. I got a number of notes.
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I told them, let me know what you think is, is going right. Let me know what you think needs
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fixing. You can find my email address. You can find my number. And I started to get notes from
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people, one of which came from a guy who has worked here since its founding. And it, it really, uh,
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I'll never forget it because he said, not once has any other director ever come and done anything
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like this. Wow. And second, he said, I'm so happy that you're here. Uh, and the changes that you seek
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to make now I can finally breathe. Oh wow. So a simple gesture of coming and saying, this is who I am.
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Um, I look forward to working with you to serve our country, to refocus the intelligence community
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back on its core mission, to get rid of the distractions, the weaponization and all of the
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other noise, um, that has undermined the trust that the American people, uh, may have had long
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ago in the intelligence community. Um, it, it just speaks to, uh, the vacuum of that leadership
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that unfortunately has existed for so long. So how do you, I have no doubt that the people
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in this building like you as a person, but you have to fight the deep state's loathing of your
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boss, right? I mean, there's no question. There's a fair amount of loathing by Democrat, you know,
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lifers that work in these buildings for him. Yes. And that's why I think we see leaks, you know,
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whether it's at the Pentagon or from here and you've had a couple and you've handled them very well
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and very firmly, but how do you battle that? I mean, it's like they have an agenda. Yeah. Well,
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I'm sure there are people who work here and within the intelligence committee community, uh, who,
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who probably don't think or speak very kindly of me either specifically because, uh, again,
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through the president's leadership and the mandate of the American people, I know exactly what I need
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to do here, uh, and how, uh, deep the rot is, uh, within the intelligence community that has to be
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rooted out. So yes, bringing about transparency and accountability, shining a light in areas,
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uh, that, that haven't seen the light in a very long time, if ever really pushing for the
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declassification of, of documents that the president has listed in several of his executive orders,
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uh, and reminding people here, uh, especially in the area of declassification, uh, there's so much
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protection. We've got to hold on to all the secrets instead of really thinking about what
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is in the best public interest. Uh, and so obviously starting with the assassination documents related
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to president John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. is the starting point,
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but there are many other areas where we have to bring about transparency. We have, in order to achieve
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accountability, uh, and deliver that to the American people, reminding people here every single day
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that the American taxpayers pay for this building. Yeah, there are secrets. Exactly. They keep the
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lights on. They are the ones who, who are funding your paycheck. That's paying for your rent, your
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mortgage, your ability to feed your family, that the American people are who we work for. So any other
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level of protectionism of like, well, we don't want this agency to be embarrassed by what we are going
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to expose in the truth to the American people. It's a wrongheaded mindset and speaks to the,
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the huge culture shift, the mindset shift that has to take place here. And this is,
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this is the bigger thing that we are tackling here and that the, that the president is tackling
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and we're attacking across the entire federal government. Did we learn something new in the RFK
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and JFK documents in particular? My, I didn't follow it that closely to be honest, but my takeaway was
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most people thought it didn't add that much. Am I wrong? Um, I gotta say I'm not someone who has
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studied these over the years. So I'm probably about where you are. Yeah. There were new, uh, pieces of
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information. Did you get a briefing from somebody who said, holy God, it really was the CIA? Uh, no.
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Okay. And those who are experts on this, who've studied this for a long time, uh, did not find what
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they were looking for. So yes, there was new, uh, intelligence and information that was declassified
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that had not ever been seen by the public before. Uh, there were new revelations that came through,
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but in both of those cases, and in a few days we're releasing another, I think 50 or 60,000 pages
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related to Senator Robert F. Kennedy's assassination. Um, because we had to go out and hunt and find those
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files stuck in other warehouses. Uh, but whether or not it delivers the quote unquote smoking gun,
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um, the important thing is that the transparency is there. Well, it's even more reason to release
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it. If it doesn't have anything, you know, it's like, you must've looked at some of this and said,
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why was this kept a secret for so long? Exactly. It just sends people spinning. Exactly.
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On the subject of documents that we'd like to see, but haven't COVID and its origins. Sure. You saw
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that just before we sat down tonight, the Chinese state council information office. I don't even
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want to know what that is, but it sounds bad. They have determined that COVID came from us,
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that it's more likely than not that COVID originated in the United States and not in China.
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I'm wondering whether you have any dispute with that based on what you've seen over here. The
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intelligence community has been responsible for trying to figure out in part how this thing started.
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So I created, uh, uh, kind of a special teams group, the director's initiative group that is
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focused on investigating, uh, a number of the president's top priorities and, and the things
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that the American people really deserve and want to know the truth about the origins of COVID-19 is
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one of them. So they're actively working on that. A lot of the work that's been done is on COVID.gov.
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Have you had a chance to look? Oh, he changed Trump changed it. It's quite a transformation of the
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website. Uh, for anybody watching, if you haven't seen it, check it out. It's the annoying website to
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which YouTube and all social media used to refer people with Fauci talking points. And now it's
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been completely completely reversed. Uh, so, so it's a lot, a lot of what's been found is, is already
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there. But the thing that, um, we are working with, uh, Jay Bhattacharya, the new NIH director on,
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uh, with, as well as Secretary Kennedy, um, is looking at the gain of function research,
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uh, that in the case of the Wuhan lab, as well as many others around, many of these other bio labs
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around the world was actually U.S. funded and leads to this dangerous kind of research that in
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many examples has resulted in, uh, either a pandemic or some other, uh, major health crisis.
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Let me ask you specifically, because we already know that EcoHealth Alliance was partnering with
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this Wuhan lab to create, to do gain of function research. That's right. We just have never been able
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to have somebody say it. And it was that exact experiment that led to this COVID bug. But it,
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have, have we gotten there? What's the new thing that you're digging in on? We, we are, we are
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working on that with, uh, Jay Bhattacharya and look forward to being able to share that hopefully
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very soon. Okay. That, that specific link, uh, correct between the gain of function research
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and what we saw with COVID-19. I mean, that would be extraordinary because just so the audience knows
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if that's true, if it was Peter Daszak's research with the Wuhan so-called fat lady,
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that caused this pandemic, then we did fund it. Then Anthony Fauci helped fund the pandemic.
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The thing that he denied over and over and over to Senator Rand Paul's questioning.
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That's right. Under oath. It, it, an under oath. Exactly. So it is, is it any wonder that he sought
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a preemptive pardon for anything during a certain period of time, uh, by President Biden before he left
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office? And then strong armed and smeared people like Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, anybody who came out
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and said, I don't know if that's natural. This actually smacks of lab. And the reason why this
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is so important is not just what happened in the past. It's because this gain of function research
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is happening in bio labs around the world. I got attacked. And I think you saw this. We've probably
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talked about on your show before when I warned against us funded bio labs in Ukraine, when the
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Russia Ukraine war kicked off for this very reason, who knows what kinds of pathogens are in these labs.
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And if release could create another COVID like pandemic. And for that, I was called a Russian
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asset. You're, you know, uh, trumpeting Putin's talking points, all of this nonsense simply for
00:16:28.520
speaking the truth and stating facts that by the way are still on U S embassy, Ukraine's website
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today about how the U S has funded these bio labs in Ukraine. Uh, but in order to, my point is in order
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to prevent another COVID like pandemic or another major health incident that could affect us in the
00:16:48.320
world. Uh, we have to, we have to end this gain of function research and provide the evidence that
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shows exactly why and how it's in our best interest, the American people's best interest to
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bring about an end to it. Can I just ask you one other question on that? Why did the intelligence
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community, why were they so reluctant to just say that, you know, under Joe Biden, it was, it was
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split. The FBI eventually said, well, we kind of think it was a lab. The department of energy said lab,
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but then the other agencies were like, no, we think more natural origin long past the point when it did
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not look like natural origin. They tested 80 or 90,000 animals. They never found this version of the
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virus. So what was going on with the Intel community? You know, it's a, it's a good question
00:17:27.540
and I don't have a specific answer to it, but I want to point to the contrast of how, um, in some
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cases they are very unwilling to come to, uh, express a view or a certain opinion on something. Uh, and in
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other cases, uh, even if they don't have, um, decisive or conclusive evidence per se, uh, they're very
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quickly to come to an assumption. And this, this gets to the real heart of the challenge here. And
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the problems that we've seen is the politicization of intelligence to meet a certain objective or to
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influence a certain policy. Uh, and that, that is what has been the problem. This goes all the way
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back to why this organization was founded. When you look at the so-called intelligence that really was
00:18:14.480
used to spur the Iraq regime change war. And look at what that has cost our country in lives and
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treasure. Look at what it's cost the world. Look at what, what Iraq is today. Now, essentially, uh,
00:18:28.840
a proxy of Iran when Iraq, that, that would not have happened had that regime change war, uh, not
00:18:36.400
occurred. That's right. So, so again, this is, this is really what is at the heart of needs of what needs
00:18:42.180
to be addressed within the intelligence community and why leadership matters so much. Just as a
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reminder to our audience, you were a young 21 year old state assembly person in Hawaii. And two years
00:18:55.740
after that, you signed up, you enlisted in the national guard and went, you were deployed to Iraq.
00:19:00.460
Yeah. So, you know firsthand, uh, about the blood. And I served in a medical unit and, uh, it was,
00:19:07.860
it was, uh, uh, a unit out of Hawaii, uh, brigade, um, infantry brigade combat team.
00:19:14.020
And my first task every single day was to go through a list of, uh, all of those who had, uh,
00:19:21.520
been casualties a day before those who were injured. I was the first one notified when there was someone
00:19:26.160
who was killed in action. And ultimately to make sure that those who were injured either got the
00:19:32.200
medical care they needed, that they were evacuated as quickly as possible. And then making sure that
00:19:37.660
they were getting that care all the way until they got home or getting them back out into the field.
00:19:43.020
But every day, uh, going through this list of names and thinking about those at home who I knew
00:19:52.380
because I heard from my parents, um, were worrying and, and terrified of their phone ringing and the most
00:20:03.500
terrible outcome, uh, of their loved one, their husband or wife or son or daughter or brother or
00:20:08.780
sister, uh, being in a position where they have paid the ultimate price and service to our country.
00:20:15.020
And, and this is, this is such an important thing because too often, as you know, very well covering
00:20:21.900
all of these issues for so long that you have politicians who debate whether do we go to war here
00:20:27.980
or there or there, do we go topple this government or that government? Uh, and, and too often it is so
00:20:35.100
detached from the real consequences that come from those decisions. Uh, and, and we see the same
00:20:44.540
reflected here at times, again, when we have people who are working within the intelligence community
00:20:50.060
who perhaps in some cases have become too, too detached from, um, the impact of their work on
00:21:00.860
those who are making life and death decisions for our country and, and the potential to either go to
00:21:06.380
war or to prevent war as president Trump is trying to do on many fronts. And you have those who are
00:21:12.380
co-opted by the military industrial complex abusing their position to, to, to feed or manipulate
00:21:19.340
intelligence, uh, as we saw with the Iraq war to, to start a new war. This is this, this, uh,
00:21:27.340
intelligence community, the work that gets done in places like this every single day has that power
00:21:34.700
to be the, the fodder, the fuel, the seed that can lead to yet another unnecessary. You, you're overseeing
00:21:41.900
the group that could cause it. Yes. Pete Hex says overseeing the group that would have to do it. Right.
00:21:47.820
And both of you are in very powerful positions and advising president Trump about the risks and
00:21:52.540
rewards. Right. There was a New York times article within the past month saying you, he, J.D. Vance,
00:21:59.100
and his chief of staff, Susie Wiles were all together in urging him to not go too far on our actions
00:22:09.100
against Iran, that we should not give Netanyahu what he wanted by either participating in or boldly
00:22:15.900
and robustly supporting Israel bombing Iran, that that's a proxy for us. And we, there's no way we
00:22:20.620
wouldn't be heavily involved. And that is not a position that the United States wants to be in.
00:22:25.340
And president Trump did not do it. He did not give Netanyahu the answer he wanted. I know you're not
00:22:31.340
going to get into the specifics of what you advise the president, but can you, can you explain your view
00:22:35.900
of the dangers of barreling toward a potential conflict with Iran? Yeah, the, the, um, the New
00:22:47.580
York times article was a result of an unfortunate, um, unauthorized, uh, and illegal leak of, of a very
00:22:56.140
private conversation between the president and his advisors. Uh, I won't get into the details,
00:23:02.860
but it was a very robust discussion that really speaks to, uh, president Trump's care and thoughtfulness
00:23:10.240
as he makes, uh, his decisions around these very serious issues of war, uh, and peace. Um, you know,
00:23:18.460
ultimately what we're doing is providing the president with the facts, the intelligence. Here is
00:23:24.620
what the intelligence is telling us, uh, as, as the secretary of defense, here are the options that are on the
00:23:31.220
table and the likely outcomes that could occur. If you go with course of action, a B or C, and
00:23:37.460
ultimately it's the president who, who makes the decision. And he has made it clear time and time
00:23:42.620
again, uh, that his goal with Iran, first of all, they cannot be in a position where they can develop
00:23:48.720
or have a nuclear weapon and that he believes and is confident in, um, the, the opportunity that this
00:23:56.580
moment provides to be able to achieve that outcome through peaceful means, through diplomacy and
00:24:02.320
through negotiations. And he knows that that's what's in the best interest for the American people,
00:24:08.820
On the Iran front, uh, here's the argument that the more neocon crew makes. All right. This is from
00:24:17.320
Mark Dubowitz of Defense of Democracies, one of these think tanks in Washington that wants a hard line
00:24:23.600
toward them. He recently tweeted quote, the Islamic Republic is weaker than ever hated by most Iranians
00:24:28.980
hammered by the IDF and Mossad. It's terror armies, meaning Hamas, the Houthis and Hezbollah air defense
00:24:34.120
missile production capability are in ruins. Never a better time to dismantle its new program and finish
00:24:39.540
off the regime. Will another president blink? How is he wrong? Uh, first of all, the military option
00:24:49.380
is always on the table. Uh, the president often talks about peace through strength and he means what
00:24:54.780
he says when he talks about his objective, which is also prime minister Netanyahu's objective. And I
00:25:00.820
think many countries in the world would agree that Iran cannot be in a position to have a nuclear weapon
00:25:06.080
or to develop a nuclear weapon. That is unequivocal. How we get there is really the question. The president
00:25:13.640
is of the mind as he has been consistently through his first term in office as he is now. If there is
00:25:19.620
a way to achieve what is in our best national security interests through peaceful means, through
00:25:25.660
negotiations, not blind trust, like, okay, we're just going to believe whatever they say, not at all.
00:25:31.060
Uh, any deal that is potentially made with Iran will have to come with a very, very rigorous set of,
00:25:38.080
of verification means nothing like the failure that was the JCPOA that president Obama, uh, negotiated
00:25:47.060
the deal that president Trump, uh, through his, uh, very talented and exceptional ambassador in Steve
00:25:55.820
Whitcoff, um, is negotiating is a deal that will best serve the security interests of the American
00:26:02.100
people. Do you feel the push Tulsi, the push of this like strong neocon strain that's
00:26:08.060
still within the Republican party and probably in this age, these agencies, that's much more hawkish
00:26:14.920
on an issue, including war in the middle East, which we've just done for 20 years.
00:26:20.660
Yeah, of course the pressure's there. The debate is happening in the public, which I think is a good
00:26:25.520
thing. It's a positive thing that we're hearing from different elements. Yes. Even within the
00:26:31.140
Republican party, even if they're leaking, I mean, because we're hearing from them that way,
00:26:34.800
the, the leaks should not, the leaks have to end. Uh, if the president can't have the confidence
00:26:40.860
that he can sit in a room with his closest advisors without it leaking to the public,
00:26:45.580
then that, that is something that really undermines, um, uh, his being best served with the best possible
00:26:54.360
information, with debate, robust debate around the table, which you look at the team of people he's
00:26:59.600
assembled. He likes that debate because he sees the value in hearing different perspectives so that
00:27:05.060
he can make that best informed decision. But when we look at this debate that's happening kind of in
00:27:10.300
the, in the, the, the public town square, whether it be digital or TV or, or whatever the platform
00:27:15.140
is there, uh, I think it's important for the American people to see the contrast and the difference
00:27:21.300
between the neocons who are very ready to rush into war, uh, without allowing what president Kennedy
00:27:27.860
spoke about in his historic speech at American university, which was, uh, to choose peace,
00:27:34.400
to do the hard work of diplomacy, to recognize the true cost and the serious cost of war, and that it
00:27:42.440
requires strong leadership to do the hard work of diplomacy in order to achieve peace, however,
00:27:48.560
and wherever possible. And that it's not something that you just go, okay, good. We got peace. And
00:27:55.200
then you walk away. No, it requires consistent engagement and that strong leadership that once
00:28:00.460
again strikes that balance and recognizes that we cannot be prosperous unless we are at peace
00:28:06.600
as a nation and ensuring our nation's security. Uh, we have the, the strongest and most capable
00:28:14.160
military in the world. Right. And I can say as someone who still serves in the army reserve and
00:28:19.280
has now for 22 years, you're too busy for that. And my, a little bit, but my, you know, those who
00:28:26.000
I've had the privilege of serving alongside, I had the chance to go and do some PT with Pete Hegseth
00:28:30.840
the other day. You still got it. Are you still there? Uh, you know, I'm giving the kids a run for
00:28:36.360
their money and I'm, I'm good with that, but, but it's recognizing again, yes, we have the capability
00:28:43.840
to defend our safety, security, and freedom anywhere, anytime, but it takes a strong leader
00:28:50.160
and a strong president to choose peace and diplomacy, recognizing that war and the use of our military
00:28:58.020
because of the sacrifices of these young men and women from all across the country that is required
00:29:04.920
when you go to war. President Trump takes that very seriously. And I mean, I appreciate as a mother
00:29:09.200
of an 11, 14 and 15 year old, I appreciate that. I do not want somebody with their foot on the gas
00:29:15.360
pedal, recklessly pushing us into yet another war. And I think I speak for most people in the country on
00:29:21.180
that. Um, the leaks, we touched on it. It must be very disconcerting to be in a private meeting with
00:29:27.900
the president with only top, top people. And then a day later, see it on the pages of the New York
00:29:33.500
Times. Clearly, I assume you trust your fellow cabinet members and so on implicitly, but everyone
00:29:39.740
has to speak to a staff about what happened and what needs to happen. And I wonder how rattling that
00:29:46.720
is because you're in the same position in a way that Pete Hegsteth is in where people underneath you
00:29:52.920
appear to be leaking even top secret information that you can go to jail for leaking.
00:29:59.780
That's right. But they clearly have such an agenda. It's worth it to them. Yeah. So how has that
00:30:03.900
affected you? And you're dealing with it with a firm hand, but how has it affected you when this
00:30:07.500
happens? Uh, you know, you mentioned that that example of that New York Times article, there,
00:30:12.300
there were a number of things in that article that were completely inaccurate, which speaks to again,
00:30:17.600
and there, there is an investigation that's underway to try to figure out the source of this leak or
00:30:23.040
sources of this leak around that specific incident. But, but the effect is, um, I mean, it, it makes
00:30:30.320
things much harder in, in constantly questioning and looking over your shoulder. Okay. Who's in the
00:30:35.580
room? I have to be careful about everything that I say, uh, because, um, ultimately we're in a situation
00:30:42.920
where these things being leaked, either by people who are just trying to, um, show a reporter that
00:30:50.620
they're important or chasing clout of some sort, or the most dangerous of which is those who are
00:30:57.800
trying to ultimately undermine the president's policies. Uh, and, and this is not just like,
00:31:04.120
okay, we don't like Trump or someone who, who's has a problem with president Trump and his policies.
00:31:08.600
Really what is happening when they do that is they're undermining our democracy because what
00:31:14.160
they're doing in whatever tactic they use is saying, well, uh, I'm doing what's best for the
00:31:21.000
country and I know what's better for the country than the majority, the vast majority of the American
00:31:26.080
people who chose this duly elected president, uh, Donald Trump. And that, that's where I, you can
00:31:32.740
agree or disagree with his policies, but when people cross that line who are in these positions of power
00:31:38.540
and influence, uh, they are actually undermining our democracy and our security in doing so.
00:31:43.900
You've referred three people now to DOJ for criminal prosecution. Do you think they will be prosecuted?
00:31:50.200
That's the goal. That's the goal. The only way we bring about accountability is, uh, by doing the
00:31:57.360
work of, of conducting these investigations. Uh, the department of justice and the FBI obviously have
00:32:03.000
different tools that they can use in order to, um, to find the truth and to, to seek out that evidence
00:32:10.620
so that we can actually prosecute these crimes. Do the people know they've been referred? Like,
00:32:14.360
are they, do they still work here? In some cases, uh, in some cases they know, in other cases, they are
00:32:19.120
likely not aware. We have another 11 cases that we are still conducting our own internal investigations
00:32:25.300
around. Some will be sent to the department of justice, uh, for further investigation and
00:32:30.420
prosecution for criminal charges because it is a crime, federal crime, uh, and others, um, depending
00:32:37.080
on the situation will be dealt with, uh, internally where people will be fired and have their security
00:32:41.540
clearance revoked. One of the leaks was, it spoke to what Trump is trying to do with the deportations,
00:32:48.580
not the securing of the Southern border, but the deportations. And he has declared under the alien
00:32:53.020
enemies act and invasion or incursion in part saying that the Venezuelan government has dispatched
00:32:59.880
Trenda, Aragua, this gang to come into the United States and commit mayhem. And one of the things
00:33:06.600
that was leaked from someone in the Intel community was that didn't happen. There is no official link
00:33:13.660
between the Venezuelan government and Trenda, Aragua. Therefore, it's not an incursion. It's not an
00:33:18.120
invasion. It's a very clear why somebody would leak that to try to undermine the president's use of the
00:33:23.540
alien enemies act. Is that one of the leaks being investigated? It is being investigated.
00:33:27.480
There's a few things to add to that to kind of color out the picture. Uh, one of the most often
00:33:33.420
tactics that, uh, these leakers use is they will take, let's say it's a six page top secret classified
00:33:41.900
document and they will pull a line from page one and a line from page two and a line from page three
00:33:48.040
that, that when put together supports the narrative that they are trying to push, but is not at all
00:33:53.640
reflective of the, uh, of the kind of conclusive analysis in that report. And, uh, that's exactly what
00:34:03.540
happened in this case. So they, they very selectively and intentionally left out what was really the
00:34:09.740
most important thing, which was that the FBI very clearly is the intelligence element that is responsible
00:34:15.940
for domestic security. So it shouldn't be a surprise then that they are the element that said, yes,
00:34:23.160
uh, the Maduro, uh, Venezuelan government is supporting trend. They are agua and their criminal
00:34:29.560
activities here enabled by president Biden's four years of open borders where they very freely came
00:34:35.780
in and out of our country. And we're able to, to begin to control territory here in the United States.
00:34:42.080
Uh, the CIA doesn't collect intelligence here in the United States because that, that is not,
00:34:48.680
uh, within their writ or their authorities. So, um, again, this is why we look at the ways that
00:34:54.800
intelligence leaks are politicized is by the selective picking and choosing, uh, and, and very clearly
00:35:02.000
leaving out the thing that actually, uh, supports what the president is doing here.
00:35:06.880
I'm listening to you. I, I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of a judge trying to overrule effectively
00:35:16.820
you and president Trump on whether it's been an incursion on whether the Intel supports this link
00:35:24.640
without having any access to any of these materials. I mean, when you see the courts really trying to get
00:35:32.520
involved in this and seeming to be on a road towards saying we, we are allowed to declare whether there
00:35:38.140
is an incursion or they're not, how, what's your reaction? I mean, it's such a dangerous thing. And
00:35:43.000
again, it's, it's preposterous in my view that these judges, the judicial branch obviously plays an
00:35:48.800
important role in our three, you know, co-equal branches of government, but they should understand
00:35:53.900
what their role is. And these activist judges who now somehow believe that they're in the position
00:35:58.640
of making policy by undermining the president's legal authorities and orders, uh, bestowed upon
00:36:06.680
him by the American people. He did the hard work and put his name on the ballot and ran for office.
00:36:11.400
If these judges want to run for office and be president, go ahead and do that. Go make your
00:36:15.820
policies, go state your views and your opinions, but they are politicizing the bench and, and, you know,
00:36:22.880
showing how through their activism, uh, they are undermining really, frankly, their own
00:36:28.200
credibility in doing this. And again, another thing that undermines the American people's faith
00:36:33.540
and trust that these institutions, that the, the, the judicial branch in some of these cases
00:36:39.160
is actually, uh, doing their job. You do a presidential daily brief every day. You don't
00:36:44.680
do a judicial daily brief every day. You don't sit with judge Boseberg or the U S Supreme court
00:36:49.500
and tell them all the things that he hears. No, that's what's so absurd. It's crazy. What one more
00:36:54.320
thing I'll add on that, because you mentioned of, of leakers within the intelligence community,
00:36:59.020
unfortunately we have them and they have been there for, uh, far too long and we are trying
00:37:03.780
to root them out. But there's also another source of leaks, uh, in, uh, coming from, uh, Congress
00:37:09.960
where, uh, certain staffers and members of Congress have access to this very same intelligence. And,
00:37:17.660
uh, as you can imagine, uh, some may find it in their interest to selectively leak intelligence,
00:37:24.100
once again, to, to support the talking points that they are delivering that are undermining the
00:37:30.240
president's actions to root out these cartels and these gangs to keep the American people safe.
00:37:38.020
When we just take a step back and look at the arguments that many of these Democrats in Congress
00:37:43.340
are making and how hard they're fighting and these judges, it makes zero sense, uh, in, in really
00:37:50.240
president Trump's mission is very clear. We are trying to make our country safe. We're getting
00:37:54.700
rid of the most dangerous of gangs and criminals and cartels. How is this not the most bipartisan
00:38:01.500
issue? They say they need due process. They need more due process. Right. But, but not when they
00:38:06.560
illegally came across the border. We didn't get any, you, you guys have been helping with that. I want
00:38:12.500
to ask you about this is that this is the national counterterrorism centers, border security
00:38:16.720
has actually helped president Trump quite a bit in, in nabbing a bunch of these gang members from
00:38:24.520
what I can see, um, leads on approximately what? 750 individuals in the U S who have ties to some of
00:38:30.080
these gangs like Trenda, Aragua, MS 13, and also the Sinaloa cartel. Can we spend some time? Let's
00:38:37.440
first speak about that. Sure. And then let's spend some time on the cartels, which I saw you recently
00:38:41.560
listed as your number one security concern above Iran, above China, above Russia, the cartel. So
00:38:50.220
let's do it in that order. Sure. The, the, the winds at the border and how you guys are helping.
00:38:54.440
So, so as we started the conversation, we talked about why this organization exists. Um, the ODNI
00:38:59.760
exists to be that integrating element, pulling together information in this case from the DEA,
00:39:06.080
who's been focused on these cartels for a very long time because of their counter narcotics trade.
00:39:10.580
Uh, the intelligence that the FBI has collected is they're looking at the criminal activities that
00:39:15.500
these cartels are conducting right here in communities all across the country. Um, you look
00:39:21.420
at, uh, the databases that we already have in place and have had in place for a very long time
00:39:26.500
in, in, uh, being able to keep track of known and suspected Islamist terrorists from different parts
00:39:33.360
of the world who may be trying to come into our country or did come in under Biden. Well, that's exactly
00:39:39.040
the point. And so, uh, this is kind of the nucleus for all of the intelligence and information that's
00:39:45.700
being collected about all these different individuals. And it allows us, our national
00:39:50.000
counterterrorism center, great people who work there. They, they deliver almost every day on keeping the
00:39:56.440
American people safe. In some of the examples that you mentioned, uh, of, of providing information on
00:40:03.020
these over 750, uh, individuals who we know are members of these three major cartels, uh, just
00:40:11.000
yesterday identifying almost 600 people, uh, who are known or suspected terrorists who illegally came
00:40:18.300
into our country, who applied for asylum under Joe Biden's administration and who were then released
00:40:24.240
out into our country. And so being able to get their names and, and work with the FBI, work with
00:40:30.460
Department of Homeland Security, uh, for the cartels working with the DEA so that we can find
00:40:36.100
them and either prosecute them or immediately deport them, uh, and get them out of our country and to
00:40:42.100
stop, uh, stop them from, uh, entering into our country in the first place, either by legal or
00:40:47.340
illegal means. And before we get to the cartels, what's your level of confidence? And you can't speak
00:40:52.080
for DHS, but within the intel community, the ones that you guys are identifying, what's your level of
00:40:57.340
confidence that they actually are gang members or cartel members? Because some of the public
00:41:02.880
have been led to believe it's very willy nilly. You're picking up random hairdressers and deporting
00:41:08.980
them. Yeah. How high is the bar before you communicate to the Tom Homans of the world?
00:41:14.940
It's this one and that one and the other one. When it's by the time it comes to us here at our
00:41:19.960
National Counterterrorism Center, uh, extensive work has already been done by the DEA, by the FBI
00:41:27.400
in order for their names to even be entered, uh, into our system. So my level of confidence is high
00:41:33.800
because it's high, uh, uh, it's high because of the work that I know that these DEA agents are doing,
00:41:39.920
that these FBI agents are doing. Uh, my office as the director of national intelligence, we have 12
00:41:45.660
regional, um, representatives, uh, all across the country. And I've been spending time getting out to
00:41:51.900
them and having conversations, not only with them, and it's usually the FBI special agent in charge of
00:41:57.220
that, that FBI office, but we have people from every element of the intelligence community, every element
00:42:03.420
of, of, um, uh, you know, Department of Homeland Security, DEA, all of the domestic law enforcement
00:42:09.660
agencies. And, and they are working together as a team, sharing that information, working together
00:42:16.580
on these cases to be able to identify who these people are and ultimately to track them down and
00:42:21.440
deport them or arrest and prosecute them on the subject of the cartels. Yes. The fentanyl remains
00:42:29.660
the number one killer of Americans. I think it's 18 to 44 now. I mean, it's, it's not just the super
00:42:36.020
young. It's like, those are the main years of your life. That's when you're totally thriving.
00:42:40.120
You're making a family number one killer. And we just did a long special on this the other day,
00:42:46.060
because yesterday was national fentanyl awareness day. And we were talking with these documentary
00:42:51.060
makers about how they'll flood the border on one side so that the border agents will go over here.
00:42:56.840
And then they'll send the fentanyl over on screen, right. Where nobody's covering it because that's
00:43:02.100
their main goal is to get the fentanyl into a country that's desperate for it, where we have
00:43:05.940
some, we're 4.5% of the world and we're 40% of the fentanyl consumers. So it's crazy.
00:43:16.000
Sounds good. Taking on the cartels, evil, very dangerous. Also sounds like a nightmare of a
00:43:24.460
never ending war that could turn into some sort of homegrown terrorism problem here in the United
00:43:30.480
States. So how do you calculate the risks here? Well, first of all, it's, I mean, it's already
00:43:37.000
happening. These cartels are already finding their emplacements here, having their own version of a
00:43:45.360
headquarters in different cities and towns across the country. The capabilities of these cartels,
00:43:52.520
we are not underestimating at all. It is quite an eye-opening thing when we look at how their
00:44:03.260
operations are running and their capabilities. And I won't go into detail here, but it really speaks to
00:44:09.420
why President Trump recognized this as this greatest domestic threat, which goes back to the annual
00:44:16.740
threat assessment and where I detailed this and why, and also how the Department of Defense is now
00:44:24.460
working with Department of Homeland Security really to secure our border and will play an integral role
00:44:31.020
in going after and defeating these cartels, working very closely with Mexico and their government and
00:44:40.540
their officials. Can you just speak to, it's not just coming from the southern border, right? Now they're going
00:44:46.180
around, they're using the northern border, right? They're sending, they're shipping things in from
00:44:51.060
the west coast, the east. I mean, it's, we like to think of ourselves as isolated, but we're really
00:44:55.920
not that isolated from these cartels. That's right. And that's, that's where taking this very expansive
00:45:02.740
approach all at once is so essential. No one, no one is naive at all in thinking that this is just
00:45:09.900
going to be like, oh, we'll conduct a few operations and then just knock this all out. But, but also
00:45:16.040
thinking through very carefully, kind of the lessons learned from, you know, the last like war on
00:45:21.840
drugs that, that ultimately ended up just being a prolonged war that, that we never really saw much
00:45:28.460
progress on. Number two on the list was China. Number three was Russia. If memory serves, number four
00:45:35.340
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I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest,
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00:48:50.380
Big news today as President Trump announces that he has struck this deal with the Ukrainians for a
00:48:57.260
minerals deal where we're going to have access to some of their rare earth materials. And it's not
00:49:05.100
necessarily a repayment for all of the aid that we've given them, but it gives us a reason to be
00:49:11.420
involved in Ukraine, to look out for Ukraine. And President Trump thinks it'll be a deterrent to
00:49:15.560
Putin in starting things back up again if he's able to put this to bed.
00:49:19.620
The critics say, these are former Biden people, there's nothing to be gained in Ukraine. They
00:49:27.220
don't have the rare minerals that we need. That's why we're all buying the stuff from China to begin
00:49:31.520
with. So we've bought a pig and a poke. What do you say? I don't know why they can't find a single
00:49:38.900
thing that they can agree with the president on. Not a single thing. You know, this deal was very
00:49:46.080
important to the president to get done. And today was a big day. A lot of work went into getting
00:49:51.600
this deal signed today because he values the fact that, as he talked about earlier in the cabinet
00:49:59.100
meeting today, about how the American taxpayer has provided overall, when you look at all of the aid
00:50:05.040
that's been given to Ukraine since the Russia-Ukraine war started, $350 billion. And when you look at some
00:50:12.440
of the deals that some of the other European countries made with the aid they provided with
00:50:16.220
Ukraine, A, either they used frozen Russian money, so they weren't using their taxpayer dollars. They
00:50:23.900
found a way to give them, you know, frozen money from Russian funds. And in other areas, they said,
00:50:29.740
okay, we'll loan you this money and we'll figure out a payback plan for the future. But not us,
00:50:36.080
not the Biden administration. This money was just given and that's it. So President Trump
00:50:44.360
understood that, was very, very, very bothered by it, that the American people are just out of
00:50:50.520
pocket on this without any means of any kind of repayment whatsoever. And so this minerals deal is a
00:51:00.340
way for the American people to get some form of, not return, but some kind of a repayment based on
00:51:08.420
the taxpayer dollars that have been expended and used to pay for someone else's government to be run,
00:51:14.740
to pay for someone else's infrastructure, even outside of all of the weapons system,
00:51:18.440
while we still have communities here who have failing infrastructure, who have poisonous water,
00:51:24.560
who have people still in Western North Carolina who are homeless and don't have the
00:51:30.100
basic needs that they have. And so this deal, yes, of course, he wouldn't have made the deal
00:51:36.760
if they don't have these rare earthen minerals that still need to be mined. But of course, we checked.
00:51:45.680
He's not going to go and make a blind deal based on just a handshake. And so this is a win for the
00:51:51.280
American people. And it's a win for the Ukrainian people, because this joint partnership is something
00:51:56.720
that is mutually beneficial for the people of both of our countries.
00:51:59.600
You think about the things we could have used some of that money for with all due respect to the
00:52:03.280
Ukrainians. I mean, we're talking about the southern border, how porous it is, more agents,
00:52:08.280
maybe at the northern border, more agents, maybe to inspect some of the cargo that gets shipped in,
00:52:13.300
maybe some treatment programs for people who get addicted to this poison and will be dead,
00:52:17.640
if you play the odds, within 18 months. Maybe more immigration judges so we can give all that due
00:52:23.620
process the Democrats want us to give. You know, like there's so many other ways we could have spent that
00:52:28.540
money. So I want to go back on you remember the tragic wildfire that hit my home community of Lahaina.
00:52:38.420
It was I didn't live there, but it was within my district when I was in Congress. And how many
00:52:44.000
lives were lost and an entire town just razed to the ground. And when I went there just a couple of
00:52:51.580
days after that fire happened and went out and talked to the people there on West Maui and the
00:52:57.700
fact that so many of them not connected to each other, completely different conversations, different
00:53:02.900
households, different locations said, gosh, if only we were Ukraine, maybe somebody would pay attention
00:53:10.120
to us. And that that just speaks to what we're talking about here. And so this is this community of
00:53:16.020
Lahaina now, who is only now, by the way, just starting to rebuild homes in communities and places
00:53:23.840
where they have lived for generations. We talk about Western North Carolina and the very, very,
00:53:30.060
very slow rebuild process that's going on there, that people who lost their homes are still paying
00:53:35.360
property taxes and mortgages for the land and the home that they have that they are not able to
00:53:41.460
live on in any way at all. You look at. I don't think I'd do it. Well, I don't think I'd be doing
00:53:48.500
it. That's the thing is, is those are two of many examples. You have a level of poverty in West
00:53:56.620
Virginia that I think many Americans would would not see if but going to a third world country on the
00:54:04.400
other side of the planet. The needs that we have here are very real. And part of the dissatisfaction
00:54:10.860
that the American people have had for so long in our government is that the government, by and large,
00:54:15.280
FEMA is a great example. You take all of this money, so much of this money, and it feeds into
00:54:20.280
this bureaucracy. And you have all these officials going to places like Western North Carolina. I went
00:54:25.500
there and and you hear the angst in people's voices when they say, no, FEMA hasn't been here.
00:54:31.060
And they're hoarding supplies here or there. They're saying, hey, here you go. Here's 500 bucks. Like,
00:54:36.420
what a freaking insult that is. And then they see what's going on with, oh, we sent another 50 billion
00:54:43.480
to Ukraine today. And the next, oh, we sent another 100 billion. And and how people are celebrating that
00:54:48.820
when they're not even looking at what's happening in our own backyard. And this is this is what I saw
00:54:53.820
and experienced when I was helping President Trump during his election campaign was that there was a
00:55:00.240
spark of hope in people's hearts when they saw that he was addressing the very things that they were
00:55:06.580
most concerned about their health and well-being, securing our borders, not allowing boys to play
00:55:13.300
in girls sports or allowing them into girls bathrooms, things that are common sense and address
00:55:19.920
the everyday needs of the American people, our security, him being the president of peace and trying
00:55:24.860
to prevent war. This is a shift. This is the beginning of a shift to what we are all seeking
00:55:33.020
to bring about, which is in this 250th anniversary of the founding of our country. How about let's have
00:55:38.660
a government that actually serves the people, a government that is of by and for the people?
00:55:45.200
We were talking about Russia briefly. You and I have talked before about how Hillary Clinton labeled you
00:55:49.880
a puppet of Putin, a Russian asset. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, shamefully, said the same. And
00:55:57.400
I saw recently President Trump withdrew Hillary Clinton's security clearance, which you had to do.
00:56:03.540
Yes. That must have been a little fun. Right? It was just a little fun.
00:56:10.580
I smiled. Of course you did. You're only human. Yeah, I am. So yeah, that's over for her.
00:56:17.280
Um, and a number of other people, by the way, when you look at the 51
00:56:21.520
Mark Zaid, I love that intelligence officials who signed that Hunter Biden disinformation letter,
00:56:26.740
um, and, and never apologized for it, never held themselves accountable for it. Yes. Mark Zaid,
00:56:32.580
you had Letitia James and, and others. Why did she even have one? Well, some of them didn't have
00:56:37.740
clearances, but they had access to classified information. And so we took away that access for
00:56:43.060
those. Yeah. Alvin Bragg didn't have clearances. Yes. Okay. Um, and, and there, there are more to
00:56:48.880
come. And this is part of what we're doing in our investigative work as we go back and look,
00:56:53.120
for example, at Crossfire Hurricane and how there were assistant U.S. attorneys who were knowingly
00:57:00.680
using manufactured, uh, testimony that they would interview a witness, for example,
00:57:06.800
and know that the witness was lying to them either because they set up the lie or they knew that the
00:57:12.420
witness was lying, took that lie and used it as evidence to get a warrant, uh, under FISA to go
00:57:19.200
and surveil on Americans, uh, which is completely illegal. And so these are the kinds of things,
00:57:26.720
um, those types of people, those assistant U.S. attorneys or those FBI agents that were involved
00:57:33.180
in this kind of stuff. These are crimes that need to be prosecuted. And these people need to be held
00:57:39.380
accountable. Will that happen? That will happen. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's called the Foreign Intelligence
00:57:44.640
Surveillance Act. That's right. That's what it's supposed to be used for. Yeah. It's a good reminder.
00:57:47.620
Yeah. Um, on the subject of saving money, you're doing some of that right here. Yes. And in part,
00:57:53.820
it relates to enacting President Trump's DEI directives and pulling back on some of the nonsense
00:58:00.020
that I know you and all the other agencies were spending money on, not you, you, but the,
00:58:04.300
this, the Intel community. Can you speak to a little bit of like what you found? Cause you're
00:58:08.580
doing your own Doge. You're doing dig. Yes. Um, so that's under you. You didn't out. So this is not
00:58:14.260
one of the areas that Elon and Doge came into. You did it on your own. And I understand why there's a
00:58:18.420
lot of, they are helping us. They have incredible tools and a lot of lessons learned through the work
00:58:22.500
that they've done. Okay. And so they are helping us and allowing us the opportunity to be able to apply
00:58:27.120
those here. So we're not trying to reinvent the machine at all. And we're able to get after the
00:58:31.680
things we're looking for. So how much is going out the door on DEI programs and hires and so on?
00:58:38.040
Uh, so there was a DEI office that was immediately shut down and that alone was a savings of around
00:58:43.660
$20 million. But the thing that we just announced today, in fact, was the closure of this, uh, office
00:58:50.600
of human capital, completely different part of the organization. Uh, and one that sounds like,
00:58:57.000
okay, well, maybe this is like talent management. You're trying to go out and see, well, where's the
00:59:00.320
best talent and where are the gaps we need to fill, which is what I thought. Uh, but it turns out that
00:59:05.720
it was an office where the previous administration kind of hid a bunch of their DEI people knowing that
00:59:12.180
this action was going to be taken by president Trump. And there was a slush fund there that they
00:59:18.580
would use to fund people millions of dollars to go to DEI conferences and talk to other DEI people.
00:59:25.600
Uh, and so we shut that down at a savings of $150 million today. But the thing that I think a lot of
00:59:32.760
people would be surprised by when people talk about DEI and you hear, you know, whether CNN, MSNBC,
00:59:37.920
they talk about DEI and they criticize the president for his action and the actions that we are all taking
00:59:43.040
to get rid of this, claiming that we're against diversity and all of this other crap.
00:59:46.720
When I came in here, I was able to talk with some of the people who work here.
00:59:52.740
DEI was such a priority that, uh, it was baked into the incentive structure for people to advance
00:59:59.860
professionally here. And I would imagine it was very similar across the federal government where some
01:00:05.120
employees told me that they were put in a position where they had to spend half of their time working
01:00:11.160
on DEI initiatives in order for them to be able to put it on their annual evaluation and therefore
01:00:18.340
be noted as, Oh, well, you are more likely to get promoted if you are spending the significant amount
01:00:24.260
of time on this diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives. And for me, I'm like, how in the
01:00:29.400
world would you spend half of your time on that? Right.
01:00:31.600
What were you creating? Like I, and I don't really know the answer to that, but I do know the answer
01:00:37.100
to our national security on that question, because what that means is in the, the office of the director
01:00:43.260
of national intelligence. And we have people here who work from all across of these, uh, 18 intelligence
01:00:48.620
elements being put in a position where they're told if you want to get promoted, if you don't, if you
01:00:54.720
want to advance in your career, the priority is not, are you delivering the best quality intelligence
01:01:00.280
assessments and analysis to best inform the president's most critical decisions? No, you
01:01:06.780
will advance professionally. If you show that you're dedicating half of your day towards these
01:01:12.460
DEI initiatives, your implicit bias, exactly, exactly. And so when we look at why this was a priority for
01:01:18.000
the president, this is not some superficial thing. There are national security implications to what the
01:01:24.520
Biden administration was doing in centering almost their entire administration around DEI
01:01:29.840
initiatives. You can take this towards any domestic agency. Look at the department of education.
01:01:34.620
Shouldn't they be focused on educating our kids? Well, wasn't there a group, which Intel agency was it
01:01:39.680
that had the people talking about transgender surgeries and non-binary this? And there's the
01:01:46.220
national security agency. Yeah. There's sex groups, polyamory. Yeah. I mean, on and on.
01:01:51.120
This is, this is, this is a great example. So, so there was a, a, a, uh, someone who snuck into that chat,
01:01:58.260
um, that was not a part of, that was not an employee there and they screenshotted what they saw and leaked it
01:02:05.660
out on X. Uh, and again, this is a chat group that was created and administered by the NSA, one of the
01:02:12.620
premier intelligence collection, uh, entities that we have. And, uh, it, it was obscene. It was obscene.
01:02:20.660
Yes. It was about all of those things. It was talking about sex toys and sex tricks for people
01:02:26.740
who had gone through, uh, you know, some kind of transgender surgery or during the work day. This is,
01:02:33.060
this is during the work day on an intelligence hosted work chat group. Uh, and the supervisors,
01:02:43.180
obviously, as soon as I found out about it, I said, anybody who's involved with this is getting
01:02:46.760
fired and getting their security clearance revoked, uh, which, which there were some movies like,
01:02:51.880
oh gosh, aren't you like, that seems extreme. Like, no, imagine you're in any office and you're
01:02:57.320
having these kinds of sexually explicit conversations in the workplace. It is how, I don't care what your,
01:03:03.060
sexual orientation or whatever your private choices are. This cannot be happening in the workplace
01:03:08.140
and it must not be happening in our premier intelligence, uh, agency that has people who
01:03:14.440
have the highest clearances, uh, that, that anyone can hold. The, the plot thickens as many of the
01:03:22.080
leaders feigned shock and surprise at this revelation. Well, this chat group had existed for over two years
01:03:29.320
that this kind of stuff was happening in. And again, this is where transparency and accountability
01:03:34.300
matters so much. As soon as I made that announcement, uh, that we will be investigating
01:03:39.680
and holding these people accountable. I started hearing from people who are within the workforce
01:03:43.400
saying, I work at the NSA. I filed a written report with evidence of what was going on in these
01:03:49.080
chat groups a year ago, two years ago, two years ago, when this thing first kicked up. And basically
01:03:54.300
because of president Biden's DEI initiatives, they were essentially told, shut up. It's none of your
01:04:00.760
business. Wow. And then there was the coverup and then there was the leak. So this is one example of
01:04:07.400
many, how we can see, um, what the ramifications have been, uh, when we have in the last administration,
01:04:15.440
one that is seemingly focused on everything, but the most important things. Speaking of the last
01:04:22.580
administration, one question for you on signal gate, as I heard you say this recently, is this
01:04:28.300
the first administration to use signal for confidential chats? Absolutely not. I mean, you actually saw
01:04:35.560
something that told you this was in fact being used by the Biden administration who are out there all
01:04:40.760
over X and other social media, ripping everyone who was on that signal gate thread to shreds.
01:04:46.980
That is correct. So there's no question in your mind, this was used during the Biden administration
01:04:50.900
by officials. I know for certain that it was believed to include national security officials.
01:04:56.740
Is there another way to communicate? Like do, are we stuck with signals? So, so the main, the main means
01:05:01.580
of communication for all of us, like this, in this building, this entire building is a secure,
01:05:06.300
uh, facility. That means that if you go outside of this lobby, there's a bunch of lock boxes over
01:05:13.000
there where you got to lock your phone in, you got to lock your, uh, Apple watch or your aura ring,
01:05:18.300
anything that your aura ring. Wow. Anything that transmits a signal gets locked up by everyone who
01:05:25.220
works here and everyone who visits here before you leave this lobby. How are you supposed to count your
01:05:29.440
steps? Good luck. Take, take the stairs. Old fashioned way. Exactly. But, but so, so the vast
01:05:37.320
majority of the communication that happens is through secure telephones and secure computers and
01:05:42.160
things that are built in, uh, to our work environments. However, I do have to leave the
01:05:48.080
building at times and things have to keep moving and rolling. Same goes for those who work in the
01:05:54.160
White House and those who work across the administration. So at times for practical purposes,
01:05:58.360
you have to be able to communicate on the go. Signal, um, has been recognized by the federal
01:06:04.120
government during the Biden administration, by the way, in December of 2024, uh, as the, uh, preferred,
01:06:12.260
uh, messaging app because it provides that end-to-end encryption, uh, that makes it, you know,
01:06:19.380
nothing is completely secure, but it is the most secure option if you need to use it.
01:06:23.840
You feel like it was unfair to Pete and Mike Walls? I mean, they, they took the brunt of it.
01:06:27.660
Yeah. I mean, you know, it shouldn't have happened. Uh, there are sensitive conversations
01:06:31.720
that, that, that occur in these signal chats. Um, but ultimately it was not at all what, uh,
01:06:40.620
those who are opposing the president's policies and those in the media made it out to be. And I can
01:06:46.200
tell you that there are some of the most vocal critics of that whole situation who also use signal
01:06:53.520
and communicate things that they would not want released publicly as well.
01:06:56.860
Not surprised. Exactly. As I've listened to you over this hour, I've had one thought recur to me
01:07:03.380
over and over and over, and it is first female president. That is what I, I like, I look at you
01:07:08.920
and I see it and I know they put you through the meat grinder, uh, the last time, but that was the
01:07:14.520
other side. Now you've crossed over. And so I just wonder.
01:07:20.360
Thank you for not saying transition. People use that where it's like, okay, that's one of those
01:07:25.300
words that's like for a certain thing. But notwithstanding how rough that was when you,
01:07:34.080
when you ran for president the first time, have you ruled out ever doing it again? Could we
01:07:38.980
potentially see a Tulsi 2028 try? Um, I will never rule out any opportunity to serve my country.
01:07:49.720
Uh, I would not have, if, if we had talked a year ago, uh, the thought would not have crossed my mind
01:07:56.840
that I would be here and that we would be having this conversation. My decisions in my life have,
01:08:04.300
have always been made around how can I best be of service to God? How can I best be of service
01:08:08.840
to our country? And, um, that, that is what has led me here. I'm grateful for this opportunity
01:08:16.120
and I will continue to chase those opportunities where I can make the most positive impact and be
01:08:21.880
of service. And now you and I sit here having done something the two of us back in 2016 never would
01:08:29.320
have thought we would have done, which was stood up on a stage and endorsed Donald Trump. Yeah.
01:08:33.680
Now you're working for him. I endorsed him too. Yeah. And it was so great. I was there. I remember it
01:08:39.820
was, uh, it was such a powerful, it was such a powerful, uh, moment and, and speech that you
01:08:45.760
delivered because of your history with him. You are very generous to even mention that what you did
01:08:51.160
for president Trump was huge and seeing you up there and announcing like your partisan change,
01:08:56.160
you, you know, with Trump, it was this, that was like the team of rivals or the Marvel universe
01:09:02.460
coming together. The Avengers. Yeah. The Avengers. You're one of them. You're one of the most,
01:09:06.180
and the, the, the gray streak is part of it. It just works. But I wonder if you do decide to do
01:09:11.700
something, you know, in the future running for president or individual executive leadership,
01:09:16.360
what have you learned from him? Like what do you, what would you want to take away from
01:09:21.820
the kind of leader Trump is? He's a very bold leader. And as we see, he's making decisions,
01:09:30.080
um, without care for what the media chirps about him or what his, uh, so-called critics may say about
01:09:40.140
him. And, um, and, and he's quite masterful at it, by the way. Um, you know, he's, he's been, uh,
01:09:50.260
so effective at connecting with the American people, uh, in ways that I think a lot of the,
01:09:57.140
the politicians or the, the so-called political pundits here in Washington, DC, uh, never really
01:10:04.640
understood. And maybe a lot of them still don't. Um, but it really comes from a place of care,
01:10:11.160
um, his care for the American people. He doesn't need to do this. He didn't need to put himself
01:10:15.840
through all this. He didn't need to put himself in a position where there were two assassination
01:10:19.680
attempts, uh, on his life. And, uh, the kind of bold change that we're seeing happening now
01:10:26.440
across the government, um, it's never happened like this under any other president. So I really
01:10:33.300
respect, uh, his boldness and his courage in doing things that sometimes people don't other,
01:10:40.160
don't understand or see what, uh, how it's going to turn out.
01:10:44.440
Those are things we see in you too. Boldness, courage, and you share something else with him,
01:10:49.400
which is fearlessly independent. That's, what's going to take you forward.
01:10:54.600
Thank you so much. It's so good to see you. Thank you very much.
01:10:58.960
I mean, all of you are going to get in this environment.
01:11:02.740
Yeah. My money's on you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Megan.
01:11:04.960
Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.
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