The Megyn Kelly Show - Tulsi Gabbard on Investigating the Leaks, Fighting the Deep State, and Whether She'll Run in 2028 ｜ Ep. 1061

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00:00:57.160 Where your story takes off.

00:01:00.760 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:02.660 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.060 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:13.860 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.420 We have a very special program for you this morning.

00:01:18.360 All about Tulsi Gabbard.

00:01:20.980 When I first met Tulsi, she was still a Democrat. 1.00

00:01:24.140 And it was early on in her career.

00:01:28.540 When she first came on this show, we didn't even have video. 0.52

00:01:31.100 It was an audio-only podcast.

00:01:32.920 And you could hear her with the birds tweeting in the background

00:01:36.200 from her home state of Hawaii.

00:01:38.000 And the two of us were wondering what our next move was in life.

00:01:42.280 This podcast was fledgling.

00:01:44.080 She had been ostracized by the Democrats and the Democrat Party. 0.96

00:01:48.240 And here we are five years later, both in very different places.

00:01:52.680 She's now running at the top of 18 intelligence agencies. 0.83

00:01:58.180 And I'm down here interviewing her at the office of the Director of National Intelligence.

00:02:02.940 So many did not want her to get this post because while Hillary Clinton and others accused her 0.98

00:02:10.700 of being Putin's puppet, etc., what crushes them about Tulsi Gabbard is she's no one's puppet.

00:02:17.580 She won't be bought, she won't be bullied, and she won't be cowed in saying how she really feels

00:02:24.180 by the military-industrial complex or anyone else.

00:02:28.720 So we just completed a fascinating hour-long talk about so many different things.

00:02:34.940 It's Tulsi like you've seen her a bit before, you know, still straightforward and moving and

00:02:40.160 honest in her commentary, but in a brand new, really big role.

00:02:44.780 Enjoy.

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00:03:57.200 Tulsi Gabbard, I'm so excited to be here with you.

00:04:00.000 There's significance to where we are. Why?

00:04:02.300 Yes. So we're sitting here in the lobby of the buildings known as Liberty Crossing of the

00:04:09.320 Office of Director of National Intelligence. This organization was formed because of the disaster

00:04:16.080 of the intelligence community that could have prevented the attack on 9-11 had there been

00:04:23.820 an integration of intelligence. Had the CIA been talking to the FBI and all of these different

00:04:29.640 people who had different pieces of information but weren't talking to and sharing that information

00:04:34.500 intelligence with each other followed by the intelligence failure of the Iraq war that

00:04:40.300 ultimately led to the creation of this organization. So we're sitting here in the lobby. This is the

00:04:45.500 very first interview that's ever been done in this lobby and potentially in this building anywhere.

00:04:52.960 So I'm honored.

00:04:53.480 It's a special day. And this is the 20th anniversary of the founding of this organization.

00:04:58.800 Wow. Yeah. Your role was created after 9-11.

00:05:01.400 Yes.

00:05:01.980 As a result of all that. Now you oversee 18 intelligence agencies.

00:05:05.620 Yes.

00:05:05.720 Can I just ask you as a practical matter, you come in, you had a background in intelligence when you

00:05:10.200 were in the House. It's not like you'd never touched it.

00:05:12.380 In, I was on the Armed Services and the Foreign Affairs Committee. So it was interesting as a member of

00:05:16.840 Congress there for eight years on those subject matter committees, I was a customer of intelligence.

00:05:22.720 intelligence very frequently, some of the highest levels of intelligence as well as kind of the

00:05:27.120 broader intelligence briefings that we had. And so I, at that time, experienced a level of

00:05:34.380 frustration that's common if you were to ask most members of Congress in that the briefings that we

00:05:39.260 received then more often than not were things that we had already read about in the newspapers,

00:05:44.540 seen on the news the night before, and just didn't get much value from it to better inform the

00:05:51.180 decisions that we had to make related to our military or military operations or foreign policy

00:05:55.600 decisions. And, and that was, you know, I, I left Congress and my last day was January 3rd of 2021.

00:06:03.180 And as I was going through the confirmation process for this job, and I was meeting with the

00:06:08.020 different senators, it was interesting that they expressed that same frustration to me. And many of

00:06:14.540 these senators were members of the intelligence committee, which really spoke to, um, how much

00:06:21.260 work, uh, there is to do still. So you show up here, you get confirmed. Yeah. I mean, what's the

00:06:27.020 first thing that happened as a practical matter? Do you say like, let me see the JFK files? Like,

00:06:31.820 what do you do? I have a long list of things I'm working through. Uh, but honestly, the, the first thing that

00:06:38.540 I did was actually, uh, uh, uh, send out an email to, uh, all the people who work here and said,

00:06:45.260 I'll be down here in this lobby where we are right now. Uh, I think it was at 12 o'clock. And, uh,

00:06:50.540 if you're free, I'd love to come and introduce myself and say, hello. Uh, it was standing room

00:06:56.140 only here. I was grateful, uh, to be able to have the opportunity to just immediately address those who

00:07:02.000 work here, uh, intelligence professionals, analysts, people who are subject matter experts in

00:07:07.100 different areas, some of the support staff who are here and kind of keep the lights on.

00:07:12.020 Um, and, and they gave me a very warm welcome. And I laid out, uh, who I am, my background and the

00:07:19.720 mandate that the American people delivered, uh, by electing Donald Trump and, and why I'm here,

00:07:26.040 the purpose that we all are here for to serve the American people, to ensure their safety, security,

00:07:32.040 and freedom first and foremost. And let me just tell you this. I got a number of notes.

00:07:36.840 I told them, let me know what you think is, is going right. Let me know what you think needs

00:07:42.020 fixing. You can find my email address. You can find my number. And I started to get notes from

00:07:46.960 people, one of which came from a guy who has worked here since its founding. And it, it really, uh,

00:07:53.840 I'll never forget it because he said, not once has any other director ever come and done anything

00:07:58.880 like this. Wow. And second, he said, I'm so happy that you're here. Uh, and the changes that you seek

00:08:06.300 to make now I can finally breathe. Oh wow. So a simple gesture of coming and saying, this is who I am.

00:08:18.360 Um, I look forward to working with you to serve our country, to refocus the intelligence community

00:08:23.240 back on its core mission, to get rid of the distractions, the weaponization and all of the

00:08:29.100 other noise, um, that has undermined the trust that the American people, uh, may have had long

00:08:35.380 ago in the intelligence community. Um, it, it just speaks to, uh, the vacuum of that leadership

00:08:43.360 that unfortunately has existed for so long. So how do you, I have no doubt that the people

00:08:47.700 in this building like you as a person, but you have to fight the deep state's loathing of your

00:08:54.800 boss, right? I mean, there's no question. There's a fair amount of loathing by Democrat, you know,

00:09:00.200 lifers that work in these buildings for him. Yes. And that's why I think we see leaks, you know,

00:09:06.840 whether it's at the Pentagon or from here and you've had a couple and you've handled them very well

00:09:10.940 and very firmly, but how do you battle that? I mean, it's like they have an agenda. Yeah. Well,

00:09:16.560 I'm sure there are people who work here and within the intelligence committee community, uh, who,

00:09:21.600 who probably don't think or speak very kindly of me either specifically because, uh, again,

00:09:27.780 through the president's leadership and the mandate of the American people, I know exactly what I need

00:09:32.760 to do here, uh, and how, uh, deep the rot is, uh, within the intelligence community that has to be

00:09:40.600 rooted out. So yes, bringing about transparency and accountability, shining a light in areas,

00:09:47.380 uh, that, that haven't seen the light in a very long time, if ever really pushing for the

00:09:54.580 declassification of, of documents that the president has listed in several of his executive orders,

00:10:00.040 uh, and reminding people here, uh, especially in the area of declassification, uh, there's so much

00:10:07.460 protection. We've got to hold on to all the secrets instead of really thinking about what

00:10:12.280 is in the best public interest. Uh, and so obviously starting with the assassination documents related

00:10:17.540 to president John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. is the starting point,

00:10:23.700 but there are many other areas where we have to bring about transparency. We have, in order to achieve

00:10:30.420 accountability, uh, and deliver that to the American people, reminding people here every single day

00:10:36.780 that the American taxpayers pay for this building. Yeah, there are secrets. Exactly. They keep the

00:10:44.020 lights on. They are the ones who, who are funding your paycheck. That's paying for your rent, your

00:10:50.360 mortgage, your ability to feed your family, that the American people are who we work for. So any other

00:10:56.840 level of protectionism of like, well, we don't want this agency to be embarrassed by what we are going

00:11:03.420 to expose in the truth to the American people. It's a wrongheaded mindset and speaks to the,

00:11:08.560 the huge culture shift, the mindset shift that has to take place here. And this is,

00:11:14.640 this is the bigger thing that we are tackling here and that the, that the president is tackling

00:11:18.760 and we're attacking across the entire federal government. Did we learn something new in the RFK

00:11:23.060 and JFK documents in particular? My, I didn't follow it that closely to be honest, but my takeaway was

00:11:28.880 most people thought it didn't add that much. Am I wrong? Um, I gotta say I'm not someone who has

00:11:36.700 studied these over the years. So I'm probably about where you are. Yeah. There were new, uh, pieces of

00:11:42.540 information. Did you get a briefing from somebody who said, holy God, it really was the CIA? Uh, no.

00:11:48.840 Okay. And those who are experts on this, who've studied this for a long time, uh, did not find what

00:11:56.060 they were looking for. So yes, there was new, uh, intelligence and information that was declassified

00:12:01.280 that had not ever been seen by the public before. Uh, there were new revelations that came through,

00:12:06.620 but in both of those cases, and in a few days we're releasing another, I think 50 or 60,000 pages

00:12:12.780 related to Senator Robert F. Kennedy's assassination. Um, because we had to go out and hunt and find those

00:12:19.200 files stuck in other warehouses. Uh, but whether or not it delivers the quote unquote smoking gun,

00:12:28.100 um, the important thing is that the transparency is there. Well, it's even more reason to release

00:12:32.960 it. If it doesn't have anything, you know, it's like, you must've looked at some of this and said,

00:12:37.140 why was this kept a secret for so long? Exactly. It just sends people spinning. Exactly.

00:12:41.880 On the subject of documents that we'd like to see, but haven't COVID and its origins. Sure. You saw

00:12:47.380 that just before we sat down tonight, the Chinese state council information office. I don't even

00:12:52.700 want to know what that is, but it sounds bad. They have determined that COVID came from us,

00:12:58.060 that it's more likely than not that COVID originated in the United States and not in China.

00:13:06.140 I'm wondering whether you have any dispute with that based on what you've seen over here. The

00:13:10.220 intelligence community has been responsible for trying to figure out in part how this thing started.

00:13:14.840 So I created, uh, uh, kind of a special teams group, the director's initiative group that is

00:13:22.000 focused on investigating, uh, a number of the president's top priorities and, and the things

00:13:27.100 that the American people really deserve and want to know the truth about the origins of COVID-19 is

00:13:32.500 one of them. So they're actively working on that. A lot of the work that's been done is on COVID.gov.

00:13:38.420 Have you had a chance to look? Oh, he changed Trump changed it. It's quite a transformation of the

00:13:44.280 website. Uh, for anybody watching, if you haven't seen it, check it out. It's the annoying website to

00:13:49.260 which YouTube and all social media used to refer people with Fauci talking points. And now it's

00:13:54.540 been completely completely reversed. Uh, so, so it's a lot, a lot of what's been found is, is already

00:14:00.760 there. But the thing that, um, we are working with, uh, Jay Bhattacharya, the new NIH director on,

00:14:07.600 uh, with, as well as Secretary Kennedy, um, is looking at the gain of function research,

00:14:15.540 uh, that in the case of the Wuhan lab, as well as many others around, many of these other bio labs

00:14:21.340 around the world was actually U.S. funded and leads to this dangerous kind of research that in

00:14:28.260 many examples has resulted in, uh, either a pandemic or some other, uh, major health crisis.

00:14:36.220 Let me ask you specifically, because we already know that EcoHealth Alliance was partnering with

00:14:40.220 this Wuhan lab to create, to do gain of function research. That's right. We just have never been able

00:14:44.840 to have somebody say it. And it was that exact experiment that led to this COVID bug. But it,

00:14:51.440 have, have we gotten there? What's the new thing that you're digging in on? We, we are, we are

00:14:55.720 working on that with, uh, Jay Bhattacharya and look forward to being able to share that hopefully

00:15:00.420 very soon. Okay. That, that specific link, uh, correct between the gain of function research

00:15:05.720 and what we saw with COVID-19. I mean, that would be extraordinary because just so the audience knows

00:15:09.800 if that's true, if it was Peter Daszak's research with the Wuhan so-called fat lady,

00:15:14.840 that caused this pandemic, then we did fund it. Then Anthony Fauci helped fund the pandemic.

00:15:20.000 The thing that he denied over and over and over to Senator Rand Paul's questioning.

00:15:25.920 That's right. Under oath. It, it, an under oath. Exactly. So it is, is it any wonder that he sought

00:15:32.120 a preemptive pardon for anything during a certain period of time, uh, by President Biden before he left

00:15:39.300 office? And then strong armed and smeared people like Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, anybody who came out

00:15:46.480 and said, I don't know if that's natural. This actually smacks of lab. And the reason why this

00:15:52.380 is so important is not just what happened in the past. It's because this gain of function research

00:15:57.840 is happening in bio labs around the world. I got attacked. And I think you saw this. We've probably

00:16:03.580 talked about on your show before when I warned against us funded bio labs in Ukraine, when the 0.84

00:16:09.900 Russia Ukraine war kicked off for this very reason, who knows what kinds of pathogens are in these labs. 0.80

00:16:16.100 And if release could create another COVID like pandemic. And for that, I was called a Russian

00:16:21.940 asset. You're, you know, uh, trumpeting Putin's talking points, all of this nonsense simply for

00:16:28.520 speaking the truth and stating facts that by the way are still on U S embassy, Ukraine's website

00:16:33.640 today about how the U S has funded these bio labs in Ukraine. Uh, but in order to, my point is in order

00:16:41.100 to prevent another COVID like pandemic or another major health incident that could affect us in the

00:16:48.320 world. Uh, we have to, we have to end this gain of function research and provide the evidence that

00:16:53.980 shows exactly why and how it's in our best interest, the American people's best interest to

00:16:59.100 bring about an end to it. Can I just ask you one other question on that? Why did the intelligence

00:17:02.280 community, why were they so reluctant to just say that, you know, under Joe Biden, it was, it was

00:17:08.240 split. The FBI eventually said, well, we kind of think it was a lab. The department of energy said lab,

00:17:13.280 but then the other agencies were like, no, we think more natural origin long past the point when it did

00:17:17.560 not look like natural origin. They tested 80 or 90,000 animals. They never found this version of the

00:17:22.660 virus. So what was going on with the Intel community? You know, it's a, it's a good question

00:17:27.540 and I don't have a specific answer to it, but I want to point to the contrast of how, um, in some

00:17:35.320 cases they are very unwilling to come to, uh, express a view or a certain opinion on something. Uh, and in

00:17:42.900 other cases, uh, even if they don't have, um, decisive or conclusive evidence per se, uh, they're very

00:17:52.040 quickly to come to an assumption. And this, this gets to the real heart of the challenge here. And

00:17:56.900 the problems that we've seen is the politicization of intelligence to meet a certain objective or to

00:18:03.320 influence a certain policy. Uh, and that, that is what has been the problem. This goes all the way

00:18:09.340 back to why this organization was founded. When you look at the so-called intelligence that really was

00:18:14.480 used to spur the Iraq regime change war. And look at what that has cost our country in lives and 0.82

00:18:22.440 treasure. Look at what it's cost the world. Look at what, what Iraq is today. Now, essentially, uh, 1.00

00:18:28.840 a proxy of Iran when Iraq, that, that would not have happened had that regime change war, uh, not

00:18:36.400 occurred. That's right. So, so again, this is, this is really what is at the heart of needs of what needs

00:18:42.180 to be addressed within the intelligence community and why leadership matters so much. Just as a

00:18:48.240 reminder to our audience, you were a young 21 year old state assembly person in Hawaii. And two years

00:18:55.740 after that, you signed up, you enlisted in the national guard and went, you were deployed to Iraq.

00:19:00.460 Yeah. So, you know firsthand, uh, about the blood. And I served in a medical unit and, uh, it was,

00:19:07.860 it was, uh, uh, a unit out of Hawaii, uh, brigade, um, infantry brigade combat team.

00:19:14.020 And my first task every single day was to go through a list of, uh, all of those who had, uh,

00:19:21.520 been casualties a day before those who were injured. I was the first one notified when there was someone

00:19:26.160 who was killed in action. And ultimately to make sure that those who were injured either got the

00:19:32.200 medical care they needed, that they were evacuated as quickly as possible. And then making sure that

00:19:37.660 they were getting that care all the way until they got home or getting them back out into the field.

00:19:43.020 But every day, uh, going through this list of names and thinking about those at home who I knew

00:19:52.380 because I heard from my parents, um, were worrying and, and terrified of their phone ringing and the most

00:20:03.500 terrible outcome, uh, of their loved one, their husband or wife or son or daughter or brother or

00:20:08.780 sister, uh, being in a position where they have paid the ultimate price and service to our country.

00:20:15.020 And, and this is, this is such an important thing because too often, as you know, very well covering

00:20:21.900 all of these issues for so long that you have politicians who debate whether do we go to war here

00:20:27.980 or there or there, do we go topple this government or that government? Uh, and, and too often it is so

00:20:35.100 detached from the real consequences that come from those decisions. Uh, and, and we see the same

00:20:44.540 reflected here at times, again, when we have people who are working within the intelligence community

00:20:50.060 who perhaps in some cases have become too, too detached from, um, the impact of their work on

00:21:00.860 those who are making life and death decisions for our country and, and the potential to either go to

00:21:06.380 war or to prevent war as president Trump is trying to do on many fronts. And you have those who are

00:21:12.380 co-opted by the military industrial complex abusing their position to, to, to feed or manipulate

00:21:19.340 intelligence, uh, as we saw with the Iraq war to, to start a new war. This is this, this, uh,

00:21:27.340 intelligence community, the work that gets done in places like this every single day has that power

00:21:34.700 to be the, the fodder, the fuel, the seed that can lead to yet another unnecessary. You, you're overseeing

00:21:41.900 the group that could cause it. Yes. Pete Hex says overseeing the group that would have to do it. Right.

00:21:47.820 And both of you are in very powerful positions and advising president Trump about the risks and

00:21:52.540 rewards. Right. There was a New York times article within the past month saying you, he, J.D. Vance,

00:21:59.100 and his chief of staff, Susie Wiles were all together in urging him to not go too far on our actions

00:22:09.100 against Iran, that we should not give Netanyahu what he wanted by either participating in or boldly

00:22:15.900 and robustly supporting Israel bombing Iran, that that's a proxy for us. And we, there's no way we

00:22:20.620 wouldn't be heavily involved. And that is not a position that the United States wants to be in.

00:22:25.340 And president Trump did not do it. He did not give Netanyahu the answer he wanted. I know you're not

00:22:31.340 going to get into the specifics of what you advise the president, but can you, can you explain your view

00:22:35.900 of the dangers of barreling toward a potential conflict with Iran? Yeah, the, the, um, the New 0.99

00:22:47.580 York times article was a result of an unfortunate, um, unauthorized, uh, and illegal leak of, of a very

00:22:56.140 private conversation between the president and his advisors. Uh, I won't get into the details,

00:23:02.860 but it was a very robust discussion that really speaks to, uh, president Trump's care and thoughtfulness

00:23:10.240 as he makes, uh, his decisions around these very serious issues of war, uh, and peace. Um, you know,

00:23:18.460 ultimately what we're doing is providing the president with the facts, the intelligence. Here is

00:23:24.620 what the intelligence is telling us, uh, as, as the secretary of defense, here are the options that are on the

00:23:31.220 table and the likely outcomes that could occur. If you go with course of action, a B or C, and

00:23:37.460 ultimately it's the president who, who makes the decision. And he has made it clear time and time

00:23:42.620 again, uh, that his goal with Iran, first of all, they cannot be in a position where they can develop

00:23:48.720 or have a nuclear weapon and that he believes and is confident in, um, the, the opportunity that this

00:23:56.580 moment provides to be able to achieve that outcome through peaceful means, through diplomacy and

00:24:02.320 through negotiations. And he knows that that's what's in the best interest for the American people,

00:24:06.760 uh, and for the world.

00:24:08.820 On the Iran front, uh, here's the argument that the more neocon crew makes. All right. This is from

00:24:17.320 Mark Dubowitz of Defense of Democracies, one of these think tanks in Washington that wants a hard line

00:24:23.600 toward them. He recently tweeted quote, the Islamic Republic is weaker than ever hated by most Iranians

00:24:28.980 hammered by the IDF and Mossad. It's terror armies, meaning Hamas, the Houthis and Hezbollah air defense

00:24:34.120 missile production capability are in ruins. Never a better time to dismantle its new program and finish

00:24:39.540 off the regime. Will another president blink? How is he wrong? Uh, first of all, the military option

00:24:49.380 is always on the table. Uh, the president often talks about peace through strength and he means what

00:24:54.780 he says when he talks about his objective, which is also prime minister Netanyahu's objective. And I

00:25:00.820 think many countries in the world would agree that Iran cannot be in a position to have a nuclear weapon

00:25:06.080 or to develop a nuclear weapon. That is unequivocal. How we get there is really the question. The president

00:25:13.640 is of the mind as he has been consistently through his first term in office as he is now. If there is

00:25:19.620 a way to achieve what is in our best national security interests through peaceful means, through

00:25:25.660 negotiations, not blind trust, like, okay, we're just going to believe whatever they say, not at all.

00:25:31.060 Uh, any deal that is potentially made with Iran will have to come with a very, very rigorous set of,

00:25:38.080 of verification means nothing like the failure that was the JCPOA that president Obama, uh, negotiated

00:25:47.060 the deal that president Trump, uh, through his, uh, very talented and exceptional ambassador in Steve

00:25:55.820 Whitcoff, um, is negotiating is a deal that will best serve the security interests of the American

00:26:02.100 people. Do you feel the push Tulsi, the push of this like strong neocon strain that's

00:26:08.060 still within the Republican party and probably in this age, these agencies, that's much more hawkish

00:26:14.920 on an issue, including war in the middle East, which we've just done for 20 years.

00:26:20.660 Yeah, of course the pressure's there. The debate is happening in the public, which I think is a good

00:26:25.520 thing. It's a positive thing that we're hearing from different elements. Yes. Even within the

00:26:31.140 Republican party, even if they're leaking, I mean, because we're hearing from them that way,

00:26:34.800 the, the leaks should not, the leaks have to end. Uh, if the president can't have the confidence

00:26:40.860 that he can sit in a room with his closest advisors without it leaking to the public,

00:26:45.580 then that, that is something that really undermines, um, uh, his being best served with the best possible

00:26:54.360 information, with debate, robust debate around the table, which you look at the team of people he's

00:26:59.600 assembled. He likes that debate because he sees the value in hearing different perspectives so that

00:27:05.060 he can make that best informed decision. But when we look at this debate that's happening kind of in

00:27:10.300 the, in the, the, the public town square, whether it be digital or TV or, or whatever the platform

00:27:15.140 is there, uh, I think it's important for the American people to see the contrast and the difference

00:27:21.300 between the neocons who are very ready to rush into war, uh, without allowing what president Kennedy

00:27:27.860 spoke about in his historic speech at American university, which was, uh, to choose peace,

00:27:34.400 to do the hard work of diplomacy, to recognize the true cost and the serious cost of war, and that it

00:27:42.440 requires strong leadership to do the hard work of diplomacy in order to achieve peace, however,

00:27:48.560 and wherever possible. And that it's not something that you just go, okay, good. We got peace. And

00:27:55.200 then you walk away. No, it requires consistent engagement and that strong leadership that once

00:28:00.460 again strikes that balance and recognizes that we cannot be prosperous unless we are at peace

00:28:06.600 as a nation and ensuring our nation's security. Uh, we have the, the strongest and most capable

00:28:14.160 military in the world. Right. And I can say as someone who still serves in the army reserve and

00:28:19.280 has now for 22 years, you're too busy for that. And my, a little bit, but my, you know, those who

00:28:26.000 I've had the privilege of serving alongside, I had the chance to go and do some PT with Pete Hegseth

00:28:30.840 the other day. You still got it. Are you still there? Uh, you know, I'm giving the kids a run for

00:28:36.360 their money and I'm, I'm good with that, but, but it's recognizing again, yes, we have the capability

00:28:43.840 to defend our safety, security, and freedom anywhere, anytime, but it takes a strong leader

00:28:50.160 and a strong president to choose peace and diplomacy, recognizing that war and the use of our military

00:28:58.020 because of the sacrifices of these young men and women from all across the country that is required

00:29:04.920 when you go to war. President Trump takes that very seriously. And I mean, I appreciate as a mother

00:29:09.200 of an 11, 14 and 15 year old, I appreciate that. I do not want somebody with their foot on the gas

00:29:15.360 pedal, recklessly pushing us into yet another war. And I think I speak for most people in the country on

00:29:21.180 that. Um, the leaks, we touched on it. It must be very disconcerting to be in a private meeting with

00:29:27.900 the president with only top, top people. And then a day later, see it on the pages of the New York

00:29:33.500 Times. Clearly, I assume you trust your fellow cabinet members and so on implicitly, but everyone

00:29:39.740 has to speak to a staff about what happened and what needs to happen. And I wonder how rattling that

00:29:46.720 is because you're in the same position in a way that Pete Hegsteth is in where people underneath you

00:29:52.920 appear to be leaking even top secret information that you can go to jail for leaking.

00:29:59.780 That's right. But they clearly have such an agenda. It's worth it to them. Yeah. So how has that

00:30:03.900 affected you? And you're dealing with it with a firm hand, but how has it affected you when this

00:30:07.500 happens? Uh, you know, you mentioned that that example of that New York Times article, there,

00:30:12.300 there were a number of things in that article that were completely inaccurate, which speaks to again,

00:30:17.600 and there, there is an investigation that's underway to try to figure out the source of this leak or

00:30:23.040 sources of this leak around that specific incident. But, but the effect is, um, I mean, it, it makes

00:30:30.320 things much harder in, in constantly questioning and looking over your shoulder. Okay. Who's in the

00:30:35.580 room? I have to be careful about everything that I say, uh, because, um, ultimately we're in a situation

00:30:42.920 where these things being leaked, either by people who are just trying to, um, show a reporter that

00:30:50.620 they're important or chasing clout of some sort, or the most dangerous of which is those who are

00:30:57.800 trying to ultimately undermine the president's policies. Uh, and, and this is not just like,

00:31:04.120 okay, we don't like Trump or someone who, who's has a problem with president Trump and his policies.

00:31:08.600 Really what is happening when they do that is they're undermining our democracy because what

00:31:14.160 they're doing in whatever tactic they use is saying, well, uh, I'm doing what's best for the

00:31:21.000 country and I know what's better for the country than the majority, the vast majority of the American 1.00

00:31:26.080 people who chose this duly elected president, uh, Donald Trump. And that, that's where I, you can

00:31:32.740 agree or disagree with his policies, but when people cross that line who are in these positions of power

00:31:38.540 and influence, uh, they are actually undermining our democracy and our security in doing so.

00:31:43.900 You've referred three people now to DOJ for criminal prosecution. Do you think they will be prosecuted?

00:31:50.200 That's the goal. That's the goal. The only way we bring about accountability is, uh, by doing the

00:31:57.360 work of, of conducting these investigations. Uh, the department of justice and the FBI obviously have

00:32:03.000 different tools that they can use in order to, um, to find the truth and to, to seek out that evidence

00:32:10.620 so that we can actually prosecute these crimes. Do the people know they've been referred? Like,

00:32:14.360 are they, do they still work here? In some cases, uh, in some cases they know, in other cases, they are

00:32:19.120 likely not aware. We have another 11 cases that we are still conducting our own internal investigations

00:32:25.300 around. Some will be sent to the department of justice, uh, for further investigation and

00:32:30.420 prosecution for criminal charges because it is a crime, federal crime, uh, and others, um, depending

00:32:37.080 on the situation will be dealt with, uh, internally where people will be fired and have their security

00:32:41.540 clearance revoked. One of the leaks was, it spoke to what Trump is trying to do with the deportations,

00:32:48.580 not the securing of the Southern border, but the deportations. And he has declared under the alien

00:32:53.020 enemies act and invasion or incursion in part saying that the Venezuelan government has dispatched

00:32:59.880 Trenda, Aragua, this gang to come into the United States and commit mayhem. And one of the things 0.96

00:33:06.600 that was leaked from someone in the Intel community was that didn't happen. There is no official link

00:33:13.660 between the Venezuelan government and Trenda, Aragua. Therefore, it's not an incursion. It's not an

00:33:18.120 invasion. It's a very clear why somebody would leak that to try to undermine the president's use of the

00:33:23.540 alien enemies act. Is that one of the leaks being investigated? It is being investigated.

00:33:27.480 There's a few things to add to that to kind of color out the picture. Uh, one of the most often

00:33:33.420 tactics that, uh, these leakers use is they will take, let's say it's a six page top secret classified

00:33:41.900 document and they will pull a line from page one and a line from page two and a line from page three

00:33:48.040 that, that when put together supports the narrative that they are trying to push, but is not at all

00:33:53.640 reflective of the, uh, of the kind of conclusive analysis in that report. And, uh, that's exactly what

00:34:03.540 happened in this case. So they, they very selectively and intentionally left out what was really the

00:34:09.740 most important thing, which was that the FBI very clearly is the intelligence element that is responsible

00:34:15.940 for domestic security. So it shouldn't be a surprise then that they are the element that said, yes,

00:34:23.160 uh, the Maduro, uh, Venezuelan government is supporting trend. They are agua and their criminal 0.98

00:34:29.560 activities here enabled by president Biden's four years of open borders where they very freely came

00:34:35.780 in and out of our country. And we're able to, to begin to control territory here in the United States.

00:34:42.080 Uh, the CIA doesn't collect intelligence here in the United States because that, that is not,

00:34:48.680 uh, within their writ or their authorities. So, um, again, this is why we look at the ways that

00:34:54.800 intelligence leaks are politicized is by the selective picking and choosing, uh, and, and very clearly

00:35:02.000 leaving out the thing that actually, uh, supports what the president is doing here.

00:35:06.880 I'm listening to you. I, I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of a judge trying to overrule effectively

00:35:16.820 you and president Trump on whether it's been an incursion on whether the Intel supports this link

00:35:24.640 without having any access to any of these materials. I mean, when you see the courts really trying to get

00:35:32.520 involved in this and seeming to be on a road towards saying we, we are allowed to declare whether there

00:35:38.140 is an incursion or they're not, how, what's your reaction? I mean, it's such a dangerous thing. And

00:35:43.000 again, it's, it's preposterous in my view that these judges, the judicial branch obviously plays an

00:35:48.800 important role in our three, you know, co-equal branches of government, but they should understand

00:35:53.900 what their role is. And these activist judges who now somehow believe that they're in the position

00:35:58.640 of making policy by undermining the president's legal authorities and orders, uh, bestowed upon

00:36:06.680 him by the American people. He did the hard work and put his name on the ballot and ran for office.

00:36:11.400 If these judges want to run for office and be president, go ahead and do that. Go make your

00:36:15.820 policies, go state your views and your opinions, but they are politicizing the bench and, and, you know,

00:36:22.880 showing how through their activism, uh, they are undermining really, frankly, their own

00:36:28.200 credibility in doing this. And again, another thing that undermines the American people's faith

00:36:33.540 and trust that these institutions, that the, the, the judicial branch in some of these cases

00:36:39.160 is actually, uh, doing their job. You do a presidential daily brief every day. You don't

00:36:44.680 do a judicial daily brief every day. You don't sit with judge Boseberg or the U S Supreme court

00:36:49.500 and tell them all the things that he hears. No, that's what's so absurd. It's crazy. What one more

00:36:54.320 thing I'll add on that, because you mentioned of, of leakers within the intelligence community,

00:36:59.020 unfortunately we have them and they have been there for, uh, far too long and we are trying

00:37:03.780 to root them out. But there's also another source of leaks, uh, in, uh, coming from, uh, Congress

00:37:09.960 where, uh, certain staffers and members of Congress have access to this very same intelligence. And,

00:37:17.660 uh, as you can imagine, uh, some may find it in their interest to selectively leak intelligence,

00:37:24.100 once again, to, to support the talking points that they are delivering that are undermining the

00:37:30.240 president's actions to root out these cartels and these gangs to keep the American people safe.

00:37:38.020 When we just take a step back and look at the arguments that many of these Democrats in Congress

00:37:43.340 are making and how hard they're fighting and these judges, it makes zero sense, uh, in, in really

00:37:50.240 president Trump's mission is very clear. We are trying to make our country safe. We're getting

00:37:54.700 rid of the most dangerous of gangs and criminals and cartels. How is this not the most bipartisan

00:38:01.500 issue? They say they need due process. They need more due process. Right. But, but not when they

00:38:06.560 illegally came across the border. We didn't get any, you, you guys have been helping with that. I want

00:38:12.500 to ask you about this is that this is the national counterterrorism centers, border security

00:38:16.720 has actually helped president Trump quite a bit in, in nabbing a bunch of these gang members from

00:38:24.520 what I can see, um, leads on approximately what? 750 individuals in the U S who have ties to some of

00:38:30.080 these gangs like Trenda, Aragua, MS 13, and also the Sinaloa cartel. Can we spend some time? Let's

00:38:37.440 first speak about that. Sure. And then let's spend some time on the cartels, which I saw you recently

00:38:41.560 listed as your number one security concern above Iran, above China, above Russia, the cartel. So

00:38:50.220 let's do it in that order. Sure. The, the, the winds at the border and how you guys are helping.

00:38:54.440 So, so as we started the conversation, we talked about why this organization exists. Um, the ODNI

00:38:59.760 exists to be that integrating element, pulling together information in this case from the DEA,

00:39:06.080 who's been focused on these cartels for a very long time because of their counter narcotics trade.

00:39:10.580 Uh, the intelligence that the FBI has collected is they're looking at the criminal activities that

00:39:15.500 these cartels are conducting right here in communities all across the country. Um, you look

00:39:21.420 at, uh, the databases that we already have in place and have had in place for a very long time

00:39:26.500 in, in, uh, being able to keep track of known and suspected Islamist terrorists from different parts

00:39:33.360 of the world who may be trying to come into our country or did come in under Biden. Well, that's exactly

00:39:39.040 the point. And so, uh, this is kind of the nucleus for all of the intelligence and information that's

00:39:45.700 being collected about all these different individuals. And it allows us, our national

00:39:50.000 counterterrorism center, great people who work there. They, they deliver almost every day on keeping the

00:39:56.440 American people safe. In some of the examples that you mentioned, uh, of, of providing information on

00:40:03.020 these over 750, uh, individuals who we know are members of these three major cartels, uh, just

00:40:11.000 yesterday identifying almost 600 people, uh, who are known or suspected terrorists who illegally came

00:40:18.300 into our country, who applied for asylum under Joe Biden's administration and who were then released

00:40:24.240 out into our country. And so being able to get their names and, and work with the FBI, work with

00:40:30.460 Department of Homeland Security, uh, for the cartels working with the DEA so that we can find

00:40:36.100 them and either prosecute them or immediately deport them, uh, and get them out of our country and to 0.99

00:40:42.100 stop, uh, stop them from, uh, entering into our country in the first place, either by legal or 1.00

00:40:47.340 illegal means. And before we get to the cartels, what's your level of confidence? And you can't speak

00:40:52.080 for DHS, but within the intel community, the ones that you guys are identifying, what's your level of

00:40:57.340 confidence that they actually are gang members or cartel members? Because some of the public

00:41:02.880 have been led to believe it's very willy nilly. You're picking up random hairdressers and deporting

00:41:08.980 them. Yeah. How high is the bar before you communicate to the Tom Homans of the world? 1.00

00:41:14.940 It's this one and that one and the other one. When it's by the time it comes to us here at our

00:41:19.960 National Counterterrorism Center, uh, extensive work has already been done by the DEA, by the FBI

00:41:27.400 in order for their names to even be entered, uh, into our system. So my level of confidence is high

00:41:33.800 because it's high, uh, uh, it's high because of the work that I know that these DEA agents are doing,

00:41:39.920 that these FBI agents are doing. Uh, my office as the director of national intelligence, we have 12

00:41:45.660 regional, um, representatives, uh, all across the country. And I've been spending time getting out to

00:41:51.900 them and having conversations, not only with them, and it's usually the FBI special agent in charge of

00:41:57.220 that, that FBI office, but we have people from every element of the intelligence community, every element

00:42:03.420 of, of, um, uh, you know, Department of Homeland Security, DEA, all of the domestic law enforcement

00:42:09.660 agencies. And, and they are working together as a team, sharing that information, working together

00:42:16.580 on these cases to be able to identify who these people are and ultimately to track them down and

00:42:21.440 deport them or arrest and prosecute them on the subject of the cartels. Yes. The fentanyl remains

00:42:29.660 the number one killer of Americans. I think it's 18 to 44 now. I mean, it's, it's not just the super 0.99

00:42:36.020 young. It's like, those are the main years of your life. That's when you're totally thriving.

00:42:40.120 You're making a family number one killer. And we just did a long special on this the other day,

00:42:46.060 because yesterday was national fentanyl awareness day. And we were talking with these documentary

00:42:51.060 makers about how they'll flood the border on one side so that the border agents will go over here.

00:42:56.840 And then they'll send the fentanyl over on screen, right. Where nobody's covering it because that's

00:43:02.100 their main goal is to get the fentanyl into a country that's desperate for it, where we have

00:43:05.940 some, we're 4.5% of the world and we're 40% of the fentanyl consumers. So it's crazy.

00:43:16.000 Sounds good. Taking on the cartels, evil, very dangerous. Also sounds like a nightmare of a

00:43:24.460 never ending war that could turn into some sort of homegrown terrorism problem here in the United

00:43:30.480 States. So how do you calculate the risks here? Well, first of all, it's, I mean, it's already

00:43:37.000 happening. These cartels are already finding their emplacements here, having their own version of a

00:43:45.360 headquarters in different cities and towns across the country. The capabilities of these cartels,

00:43:52.520 we are not underestimating at all. It is quite an eye-opening thing when we look at how their

00:44:03.260 operations are running and their capabilities. And I won't go into detail here, but it really speaks to

00:44:09.420 why President Trump recognized this as this greatest domestic threat, which goes back to the annual

00:44:16.740 threat assessment and where I detailed this and why, and also how the Department of Defense is now

00:44:24.460 working with Department of Homeland Security really to secure our border and will play an integral role

00:44:31.020 in going after and defeating these cartels, working very closely with Mexico and their government and

00:44:40.540 their officials. Can you just speak to, it's not just coming from the southern border, right? Now they're going

00:44:46.180 around, they're using the northern border, right? They're sending, they're shipping things in from

00:44:51.060 the west coast, the east. I mean, it's, we like to think of ourselves as isolated, but we're really

00:44:55.920 not that isolated from these cartels. That's right. And that's, that's where taking this very expansive

00:45:02.740 approach all at once is so essential. No one, no one is naive at all in thinking that this is just

00:45:09.900 going to be like, oh, we'll conduct a few operations and then just knock this all out. But, but also

00:45:16.040 thinking through very carefully, kind of the lessons learned from, you know, the last like war on 0.73

00:45:21.840 drugs that, that ultimately ended up just being a prolonged war that, that we never really saw much

00:45:28.460 progress on. Number two on the list was China. Number three was Russia. If memory serves, number four

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00:47:45.440 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest,

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00:48:50.380 Big news today as President Trump announces that he has struck this deal with the Ukrainians for a

00:48:57.260 minerals deal where we're going to have access to some of their rare earth materials. And it's not

00:49:05.100 necessarily a repayment for all of the aid that we've given them, but it gives us a reason to be

00:49:11.420 involved in Ukraine, to look out for Ukraine. And President Trump thinks it'll be a deterrent to

00:49:15.560 Putin in starting things back up again if he's able to put this to bed.

00:49:19.620 The critics say, these are former Biden people, there's nothing to be gained in Ukraine. They

00:49:27.220 don't have the rare minerals that we need. That's why we're all buying the stuff from China to begin

00:49:31.520 with. So we've bought a pig and a poke. What do you say? I don't know why they can't find a single

00:49:38.900 thing that they can agree with the president on. Not a single thing. You know, this deal was very

00:49:46.080 important to the president to get done. And today was a big day. A lot of work went into getting

00:49:51.600 this deal signed today because he values the fact that, as he talked about earlier in the cabinet

00:49:59.100 meeting today, about how the American taxpayer has provided overall, when you look at all of the aid

00:50:05.040 that's been given to Ukraine since the Russia-Ukraine war started, $350 billion. And when you look at some

00:50:12.440 of the deals that some of the other European countries made with the aid they provided with

00:50:16.220 Ukraine, A, either they used frozen Russian money, so they weren't using their taxpayer dollars. They

00:50:23.900 found a way to give them, you know, frozen money from Russian funds. And in other areas, they said,

00:50:29.740 okay, we'll loan you this money and we'll figure out a payback plan for the future. But not us,

00:50:36.080 not the Biden administration. This money was just given and that's it. So President Trump

00:50:44.360 understood that, was very, very, very bothered by it, that the American people are just out of

00:50:50.520 pocket on this without any means of any kind of repayment whatsoever. And so this minerals deal is a

00:51:00.340 way for the American people to get some form of, not return, but some kind of a repayment based on

00:51:08.420 the taxpayer dollars that have been expended and used to pay for someone else's government to be run,

00:51:14.740 to pay for someone else's infrastructure, even outside of all of the weapons system,

00:51:18.440 while we still have communities here who have failing infrastructure, who have poisonous water,

00:51:24.560 who have people still in Western North Carolina who are homeless and don't have the

00:51:30.100 basic needs that they have. And so this deal, yes, of course, he wouldn't have made the deal

00:51:36.760 if they don't have these rare earthen minerals that still need to be mined. But of course, we checked.

00:51:45.680 He's not going to go and make a blind deal based on just a handshake. And so this is a win for the

00:51:51.280 American people. And it's a win for the Ukrainian people, because this joint partnership is something

00:51:56.720 that is mutually beneficial for the people of both of our countries.

00:51:59.600 You think about the things we could have used some of that money for with all due respect to the

00:52:03.280 Ukrainians. I mean, we're talking about the southern border, how porous it is, more agents,

00:52:08.280 maybe at the northern border, more agents, maybe to inspect some of the cargo that gets shipped in,

00:52:13.300 maybe some treatment programs for people who get addicted to this poison and will be dead,

00:52:17.640 if you play the odds, within 18 months. Maybe more immigration judges so we can give all that due

00:52:23.620 process the Democrats want us to give. You know, like there's so many other ways we could have spent that

00:52:28.540 money. So I want to go back on you remember the tragic wildfire that hit my home community of Lahaina.

00:52:38.420 It was I didn't live there, but it was within my district when I was in Congress. And how many

00:52:44.000 lives were lost and an entire town just razed to the ground. And when I went there just a couple of

00:52:51.580 days after that fire happened and went out and talked to the people there on West Maui and the

00:52:57.700 fact that so many of them not connected to each other, completely different conversations, different

00:53:02.900 households, different locations said, gosh, if only we were Ukraine, maybe somebody would pay attention

00:53:10.120 to us. And that that just speaks to what we're talking about here. And so this is this community of

00:53:16.020 Lahaina now, who is only now, by the way, just starting to rebuild homes in communities and places

00:53:23.840 where they have lived for generations. We talk about Western North Carolina and the very, very,

00:53:30.060 very slow rebuild process that's going on there, that people who lost their homes are still paying

00:53:35.360 property taxes and mortgages for the land and the home that they have that they are not able to

00:53:41.460 live on in any way at all. You look at. I don't think I'd do it. Well, I don't think I'd be doing

00:53:48.500 it. That's the thing is, is those are two of many examples. You have a level of poverty in West

00:53:56.620 Virginia that I think many Americans would would not see if but going to a third world country on the 0.97

00:54:04.400 other side of the planet. The needs that we have here are very real. And part of the dissatisfaction

00:54:10.860 that the American people have had for so long in our government is that the government, by and large,

00:54:15.280 FEMA is a great example. You take all of this money, so much of this money, and it feeds into

00:54:20.280 this bureaucracy. And you have all these officials going to places like Western North Carolina. I went

00:54:25.500 there and and you hear the angst in people's voices when they say, no, FEMA hasn't been here.

00:54:31.060 And they're hoarding supplies here or there. They're saying, hey, here you go. Here's 500 bucks. Like,

00:54:36.420 what a freaking insult that is. And then they see what's going on with, oh, we sent another 50 billion 0.69

00:54:43.480 to Ukraine today. And the next, oh, we sent another 100 billion. And and how people are celebrating that

00:54:48.820 when they're not even looking at what's happening in our own backyard. And this is this is what I saw

00:54:53.820 and experienced when I was helping President Trump during his election campaign was that there was a

00:55:00.240 spark of hope in people's hearts when they saw that he was addressing the very things that they were

00:55:06.580 most concerned about their health and well-being, securing our borders, not allowing boys to play 1.00

00:55:13.300 in girls sports or allowing them into girls bathrooms, things that are common sense and address 0.98

00:55:19.920 the everyday needs of the American people, our security, him being the president of peace and trying

00:55:24.860 to prevent war. This is a shift. This is the beginning of a shift to what we are all seeking 0.54

00:55:33.020 to bring about, which is in this 250th anniversary of the founding of our country. How about let's have

00:55:38.660 a government that actually serves the people, a government that is of by and for the people?

00:55:45.200 We were talking about Russia briefly. You and I have talked before about how Hillary Clinton labeled you

00:55:49.880 a puppet of Putin, a Russian asset. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, shamefully, said the same. And

00:55:57.400 I saw recently President Trump withdrew Hillary Clinton's security clearance, which you had to do.

00:56:03.540 Yes. That must have been a little fun. Right? It was just a little fun.

00:56:10.580 I smiled. Of course you did. You're only human. Yeah, I am. So yeah, that's over for her. 0.97

00:56:17.280 Um, and a number of other people, by the way, when you look at the 51

00:56:21.520 Mark Zaid, I love that intelligence officials who signed that Hunter Biden disinformation letter,

00:56:26.740 um, and, and never apologized for it, never held themselves accountable for it. Yes. Mark Zaid,

00:56:32.580 you had Letitia James and, and others. Why did she even have one? Well, some of them didn't have

00:56:37.740 clearances, but they had access to classified information. And so we took away that access for

00:56:43.060 those. Yeah. Alvin Bragg didn't have clearances. Yes. Okay. Um, and, and there, there are more to

00:56:48.880 come. And this is part of what we're doing in our investigative work as we go back and look,

00:56:53.120 for example, at Crossfire Hurricane and how there were assistant U.S. attorneys who were knowingly

00:57:00.680 using manufactured, uh, testimony that they would interview a witness, for example,

00:57:06.800 and know that the witness was lying to them either because they set up the lie or they knew that the

00:57:12.420 witness was lying, took that lie and used it as evidence to get a warrant, uh, under FISA to go

00:57:19.200 and surveil on Americans, uh, which is completely illegal. And so these are the kinds of things,

00:57:26.720 um, those types of people, those assistant U.S. attorneys or those FBI agents that were involved

00:57:33.180 in this kind of stuff. These are crimes that need to be prosecuted. And these people need to be held

00:57:39.380 accountable. Will that happen? That will happen. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's called the Foreign Intelligence

00:57:44.640 Surveillance Act. That's right. That's what it's supposed to be used for. Yeah. It's a good reminder.

00:57:47.620 Yeah. Um, on the subject of saving money, you're doing some of that right here. Yes. And in part,

00:57:53.820 it relates to enacting President Trump's DEI directives and pulling back on some of the nonsense

00:58:00.020 that I know you and all the other agencies were spending money on, not you, you, but the,

00:58:04.300 this, the Intel community. Can you speak to a little bit of like what you found? Cause you're

00:58:08.580 doing your own Doge. You're doing dig. Yes. Um, so that's under you. You didn't out. So this is not

00:58:14.260 one of the areas that Elon and Doge came into. You did it on your own. And I understand why there's a

00:58:18.420 lot of, they are helping us. They have incredible tools and a lot of lessons learned through the work

00:58:22.500 that they've done. Okay. And so they are helping us and allowing us the opportunity to be able to apply

00:58:27.120 those here. So we're not trying to reinvent the machine at all. And we're able to get after the

00:58:31.680 things we're looking for. So how much is going out the door on DEI programs and hires and so on?

00:58:38.040 Uh, so there was a DEI office that was immediately shut down and that alone was a savings of around

00:58:43.660 $20 million. But the thing that we just announced today, in fact, was the closure of this, uh, office

00:58:50.600 of human capital, completely different part of the organization. Uh, and one that sounds like,

00:58:57.000 okay, well, maybe this is like talent management. You're trying to go out and see, well, where's the

00:59:00.320 best talent and where are the gaps we need to fill, which is what I thought. Uh, but it turns out that

00:59:05.720 it was an office where the previous administration kind of hid a bunch of their DEI people knowing that

00:59:12.180 this action was going to be taken by president Trump. And there was a slush fund there that they

00:59:18.580 would use to fund people millions of dollars to go to DEI conferences and talk to other DEI people.

00:59:25.600 Uh, and so we shut that down at a savings of $150 million today. But the thing that I think a lot of

00:59:32.760 people would be surprised by when people talk about DEI and you hear, you know, whether CNN, MSNBC,

00:59:37.920 they talk about DEI and they criticize the president for his action and the actions that we are all taking 0.89

00:59:43.040 to get rid of this, claiming that we're against diversity and all of this other crap.

00:59:46.720 When I came in here, I was able to talk with some of the people who work here.

00:59:52.740 DEI was such a priority that, uh, it was baked into the incentive structure for people to advance

00:59:59.860 professionally here. And I would imagine it was very similar across the federal government where some

01:00:05.120 employees told me that they were put in a position where they had to spend half of their time working

01:00:11.160 on DEI initiatives in order for them to be able to put it on their annual evaluation and therefore

01:00:18.340 be noted as, Oh, well, you are more likely to get promoted if you are spending the significant amount

01:00:24.260 of time on this diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives. And for me, I'm like, how in the

01:00:29.400 world would you spend half of your time on that? Right.

01:00:31.600 What were you creating? Like I, and I don't really know the answer to that, but I do know the answer

01:00:37.100 to our national security on that question, because what that means is in the, the office of the director

01:00:43.260 of national intelligence. And we have people here who work from all across of these, uh, 18 intelligence

01:00:48.620 elements being put in a position where they're told if you want to get promoted, if you don't, if you

01:00:54.720 want to advance in your career, the priority is not, are you delivering the best quality intelligence

01:01:00.280 assessments and analysis to best inform the president's most critical decisions? No, you

01:01:06.780 will advance professionally. If you show that you're dedicating half of your day towards these

01:01:12.460 DEI initiatives, your implicit bias, exactly, exactly. And so when we look at why this was a priority for

01:01:18.000 the president, this is not some superficial thing. There are national security implications to what the

01:01:24.520 Biden administration was doing in centering almost their entire administration around DEI

01:01:29.840 initiatives. You can take this towards any domestic agency. Look at the department of education.

01:01:34.620 Shouldn't they be focused on educating our kids? Well, wasn't there a group, which Intel agency was it

01:01:39.680 that had the people talking about transgender surgeries and non-binary this? And there's the

01:01:46.220 national security agency. Yeah. There's sex groups, polyamory. Yeah. I mean, on and on.

01:01:51.120 This is, this is, this is a great example. So, so there was a, a, a, uh, someone who snuck into that chat,

01:01:58.260 um, that was not a part of, that was not an employee there and they screenshotted what they saw and leaked it

01:02:05.660 out on X. Uh, and again, this is a chat group that was created and administered by the NSA, one of the

01:02:12.620 premier intelligence collection, uh, entities that we have. And, uh, it, it was obscene. It was obscene.

01:02:20.660 Yes. It was about all of those things. It was talking about sex toys and sex tricks for people

01:02:26.740 who had gone through, uh, you know, some kind of transgender surgery or during the work day. This is,

01:02:33.060 this is during the work day on an intelligence hosted work chat group. Uh, and the supervisors,

01:02:43.180 obviously, as soon as I found out about it, I said, anybody who's involved with this is getting

01:02:46.760 fired and getting their security clearance revoked, uh, which, which there were some movies like,

01:02:51.880 oh gosh, aren't you like, that seems extreme. Like, no, imagine you're in any office and you're

01:02:57.320 having these kinds of sexually explicit conversations in the workplace. It is how, I don't care what your,

01:03:03.060 sexual orientation or whatever your private choices are. This cannot be happening in the workplace 0.83

01:03:08.140 and it must not be happening in our premier intelligence, uh, agency that has people who

01:03:14.440 have the highest clearances, uh, that, that anyone can hold. The, the plot thickens as many of the

01:03:22.080 leaders feigned shock and surprise at this revelation. Well, this chat group had existed for over two years

01:03:29.320 that this kind of stuff was happening in. And again, this is where transparency and accountability

01:03:34.300 matters so much. As soon as I made that announcement, uh, that we will be investigating

01:03:39.680 and holding these people accountable. I started hearing from people who are within the workforce

01:03:43.400 saying, I work at the NSA. I filed a written report with evidence of what was going on in these

01:03:49.080 chat groups a year ago, two years ago, two years ago, when this thing first kicked up. And basically

01:03:54.300 because of president Biden's DEI initiatives, they were essentially told, shut up. It's none of your

01:04:00.760 business. Wow. And then there was the coverup and then there was the leak. So this is one example of

01:04:07.400 many, how we can see, um, what the ramifications have been, uh, when we have in the last administration,

01:04:15.440 one that is seemingly focused on everything, but the most important things. Speaking of the last

01:04:22.580 administration, one question for you on signal gate, as I heard you say this recently, is this

01:04:28.300 the first administration to use signal for confidential chats? Absolutely not. I mean, you actually saw

01:04:35.560 something that told you this was in fact being used by the Biden administration who are out there all

01:04:40.760 over X and other social media, ripping everyone who was on that signal gate thread to shreds.

01:04:46.980 That is correct. So there's no question in your mind, this was used during the Biden administration

01:04:50.900 by officials. I know for certain that it was believed to include national security officials.

01:04:56.740 Is there another way to communicate? Like do, are we stuck with signals? So, so the main, the main means

01:05:01.580 of communication for all of us, like this, in this building, this entire building is a secure,

01:05:06.300 uh, facility. That means that if you go outside of this lobby, there's a bunch of lock boxes over

01:05:13.000 there where you got to lock your phone in, you got to lock your, uh, Apple watch or your aura ring,

01:05:18.300 anything that your aura ring. Wow. Anything that transmits a signal gets locked up by everyone who

01:05:25.220 works here and everyone who visits here before you leave this lobby. How are you supposed to count your

01:05:29.440 steps? Good luck. Take, take the stairs. Old fashioned way. Exactly. But, but so, so the vast

01:05:37.320 majority of the communication that happens is through secure telephones and secure computers and

01:05:42.160 things that are built in, uh, to our work environments. However, I do have to leave the

01:05:48.080 building at times and things have to keep moving and rolling. Same goes for those who work in the

01:05:54.160 White House and those who work across the administration. So at times for practical purposes,

01:05:58.360 you have to be able to communicate on the go. Signal, um, has been recognized by the federal

01:06:04.120 government during the Biden administration, by the way, in December of 2024, uh, as the, uh, preferred,

01:06:12.260 uh, messaging app because it provides that end-to-end encryption, uh, that makes it, you know,

01:06:19.380 nothing is completely secure, but it is the most secure option if you need to use it.

01:06:23.840 You feel like it was unfair to Pete and Mike Walls? I mean, they, they took the brunt of it.

01:06:27.660 Yeah. I mean, you know, it shouldn't have happened. Uh, there are sensitive conversations

01:06:31.720 that, that, that occur in these signal chats. Um, but ultimately it was not at all what, uh,

01:06:40.620 those who are opposing the president's policies and those in the media made it out to be. And I can

01:06:46.200 tell you that there are some of the most vocal critics of that whole situation who also use signal

01:06:53.520 and communicate things that they would not want released publicly as well.

01:06:56.860 Not surprised. Exactly. As I've listened to you over this hour, I've had one thought recur to me

01:07:03.380 over and over and over, and it is first female president. That is what I, I like, I look at you

01:07:08.920 and I see it and I know they put you through the meat grinder, uh, the last time, but that was the

01:07:14.520 other side. Now you've crossed over. And so I just wonder.

01:07:20.360 Thank you for not saying transition. People use that where it's like, okay, that's one of those

01:07:25.300 words that's like for a certain thing. But notwithstanding how rough that was when you,

01:07:34.080 when you ran for president the first time, have you ruled out ever doing it again? Could we

01:07:38.980 potentially see a Tulsi 2028 try? Um, I will never rule out any opportunity to serve my country.

01:07:49.720 Uh, I would not have, if, if we had talked a year ago, uh, the thought would not have crossed my mind

01:07:56.840 that I would be here and that we would be having this conversation. My decisions in my life have,

01:08:04.300 have always been made around how can I best be of service to God? How can I best be of service

01:08:08.840 to our country? And, um, that, that is what has led me here. I'm grateful for this opportunity

01:08:16.120 and I will continue to chase those opportunities where I can make the most positive impact and be

01:08:21.880 of service. And now you and I sit here having done something the two of us back in 2016 never would

01:08:29.320 have thought we would have done, which was stood up on a stage and endorsed Donald Trump. Yeah.

01:08:33.680 Now you're working for him. I endorsed him too. Yeah. And it was so great. I was there. I remember it

01:08:39.820 was, uh, it was such a powerful, it was such a powerful, uh, moment and, and speech that you

01:08:45.760 delivered because of your history with him. You are very generous to even mention that what you did

01:08:51.160 for president Trump was huge and seeing you up there and announcing like your partisan change,

01:08:56.160 you, you know, with Trump, it was this, that was like the team of rivals or the Marvel universe

01:09:02.460 coming together. The Avengers. Yeah. The Avengers. You're one of them. You're one of the most,

01:09:06.180 and the, the, the gray streak is part of it. It just works. But I wonder if you do decide to do

01:09:11.700 something, you know, in the future running for president or individual executive leadership,

01:09:16.360 what have you learned from him? Like what do you, what would you want to take away from

01:09:21.820 the kind of leader Trump is? He's a very bold leader. And as we see, he's making decisions,

01:09:30.080 um, without care for what the media chirps about him or what his, uh, so-called critics may say about

01:09:40.140 him. And, um, and, and he's quite masterful at it, by the way. Um, you know, he's, he's been, uh,

01:09:50.260 so effective at connecting with the American people, uh, in ways that I think a lot of the,

01:09:57.140 the politicians or the, the so-called political pundits here in Washington, DC, uh, never really

01:10:04.640 understood. And maybe a lot of them still don't. Um, but it really comes from a place of care,

01:10:11.160 um, his care for the American people. He doesn't need to do this. He didn't need to put himself

01:10:15.840 through all this. He didn't need to put himself in a position where there were two assassination

01:10:19.680 attempts, uh, on his life. And, uh, the kind of bold change that we're seeing happening now

01:10:26.440 across the government, um, it's never happened like this under any other president. So I really

01:10:33.300 respect, uh, his boldness and his courage in doing things that sometimes people don't other,

01:10:40.160 don't understand or see what, uh, how it's going to turn out.

01:10:44.440 Those are things we see in you too. Boldness, courage, and you share something else with him,

01:10:49.400 which is fearlessly independent. That's, what's going to take you forward.

01:10:54.600 Thank you so much. It's so good to see you. Thank you very much.

01:10:57.200 Good luck with everything.

01:10:58.200 Thank you.

01:10:58.960 I mean, all of you are going to get in this environment.

01:11:02.740 Yeah. My money's on you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Megan.

01:11:04.960 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - May 01, 2025

Tulsi Gabbard on Investigating the Leaks, Fighting the Deep State, and Whether She'll Run in 2028 ｜ Ep. 1061

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