The Megyn Kelly Show - Tulsi Gabbard on the Afghanistan Withdrawal Hearing and the ‘Woke-ification’ of the Military

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.320 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. What a day we have for you.

00:00:18.400 Joining me today, one of my listeners' most requested guests, and we interviewed her not

00:00:23.240 long ago and still is one of our most downloaded episodes because everybody's interested in what

00:00:27.460 Tulsi Gabbard has to say. Tulsi is a former 2020 presidential candidate on the Democratic side

00:00:33.480 and former congresswoman from Hawaii. She is also a member of the U.S. Army Reserves,

00:00:38.780 currently serving as a civil affairs officer for a California-based unit. She's here with me and

00:00:44.360 we're very happy because there's a lot of breaking news right now. At this hour, the Democrats are

00:00:49.280 scrambling to try to save President Biden's domestic agenda as Biden's top defense officials are

00:00:55.240 testifying right now before the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee. And boy, they're getting it

00:01:00.740 from both sides, seeing a lot of intra-party fighting. The Democrats taking aim as well,

00:01:07.720 because Afghanistan has been a little bit less partisan than so many of the other issues that

00:01:11.440 we debate in our society. So lots to discuss. Tulsi Gabbard, thank you so much for being here.

00:01:16.400 Thank you, Megyn. Always great to talk to you.

00:01:18.680 So it's been interesting watching this morning. Some Democrats sort of running cover for Biden,

00:01:23.800 like Elizabeth Warren, but a lot saying, you know, got real concerns about how this went down.

00:01:29.780 And I want to ask you about the biggest sort of reveal, which isn't a shock, but it's still

00:01:36.120 interesting to hear it actually said on the record and on camera, which is these generals basically

00:01:41.340 putting the lie to Biden's crazy bald face claim to George Stephanopoulos that no, no general,

00:01:49.780 none of his guys, top military guys told him not, not to pull all the troops out. And here's how,

00:01:56.840 so look, first, let's just listen to what Biden said to George Stephanopoulos in mid-August.

00:02:01.660 Top military advisors weren't against withdrawing on this timeline. They wanted you to keep about

00:02:05.400 2,500 troops.

00:02:06.300 No, they didn't. It was split. That wasn't true. That wasn't true.

00:02:10.440 They didn't tell you that they wanted troops to stay?

00:02:14.100 No, not at, not in terms of whether we were going to get out in a timeframe, all troops.

00:02:20.560 They didn't argue against that.

00:02:22.580 Okay. I don't even know what that dance was on the second part of his answer, but he's saying,

00:02:27.420 no, they were split. And they were questioned by Tom Cotton, the generals today about the troop

00:02:33.540 levels and whether they advised Joe Biden, um, whether anybody advised him that it was a good

00:02:38.840 idea to pull all the troops and hear some of that. Uh, president Biden last month in an interview

00:02:43.080 with George Stephanopoulos said that no military leader advised him to leave a small troop presence

00:02:50.020 in Afghanistan. Is that true? Uh, Senator Cotton, I, uh, I believe that, uh, well, first of all,

00:03:02.420 I know the president to be an honest and forthright man. Uh, and secondly, it's a simple question,

00:03:09.640 secretary Austin. He said no senior military leader advised him to leave a small troop presence

00:03:13.560 behind. Is that true or not? Did these officer and general Miller's recommendations get to the

00:03:19.820 president personally? Their input was, uh, was received by the president and considered by the

00:03:25.560 president, uh, for sure. Uh, in terms of what they specifically recommended, Senator, they just,

00:03:30.880 as, as they just said, uh, they're not going to provide, uh, what they recommended in confidence.

00:03:38.060 And if you listen to more, Tulsi, the, uh, general Milley chairman of the joint chiefs for the first

00:03:42.500 time, acknowledged publicly that he advised president Biden not to withdraw all the troops

00:03:46.120 from Afghanistan. Um, general McKenzie, who was running CENTCOM said the same thing, told him not to

00:03:50.900 withdraw the troops. Lloyd Austin's death said, I advise him not to withdraw. I was against withdrawing

00:03:56.380 the troops. They all said, we, we made very clear when our positions, uh, and our positions at the

00:04:02.000 time, well, they wouldn't repeat their exact quote to the president. They said our position at the time

00:04:05.560 was do not withdraw all the troops. That's all of his top military advisors. They were not split.

00:04:10.400 They were uniform. They told him not to do it and he did it anyway. And then he lied to George

00:04:15.880 Stephanopoulos about it. Am I wrong? Uh, no. I mean that, that seems like a very clear kind of sequence

00:04:21.520 of those events. I think it just, it, it points to what a failure, uh, this withdrawal has been.

00:04:28.600 I think failure is a generous term to use. It's been an utter and absolute disaster. Uh, so, you

00:04:35.740 know, I mean, I think, I think this is, this is kind of one, one issue or one layer of that, but

00:04:40.880 we've got to go back and look at, you know, this, this agreement, um, that was made with the Taliban

00:04:46.760 without the Afghan government. We've got to go back to the fact that, uh, we, the United States

00:04:52.720 have been propping up this Afghan government now for the last 20 years, uh, go to the issues around

00:04:59.240 how, uh, the, the problems that can occur when the United States goes into another country on a

00:05:05.840 nation building mission and tries to create an American style democracy and create a military.

00:05:12.040 That's a, uh, close to a mirror image of the U S military when, uh, it's completely out of touch

00:05:19.280 with just the reality of, of this country, their culture, their history, their hierarchy, their

00:05:25.020 tribalism, how, how they have traditionally worked, the things that they care about, the things that

00:05:29.980 they will be able to sustain for their own security, uh, and their own stability in their own future.

00:05:35.560 So I think that, uh, I mean, there's, there's so much, there's so much to cover here, uh, but going,

00:05:41.540 going to the disaster of how this withdrawal was executed. Um, yeah, I mean, from, from start to

00:05:50.200 finish, I find it inconceivable, Megan, I find it inconceivable that these military leaders and this

00:05:58.500 administration and the state department, uh, are saying that they were completely, completely surprised by,

00:06:04.640 uh, how quickly the Afghan government fell and how quickly the Taliban took over. And the fact that

00:06:10.720 a massive evacuation of, of non-combatants of American citizens, green card holders, Afghan

00:06:17.860 partners, allies, these, these SIVs who worked with, uh, American troops on the ground. The fact that all

00:06:24.060 of this was such a shock is completely inconceivable to me. And I don't believe it for a second.

00:06:29.640 Hmm. That's because there's so much being dissected right now. And you hit on a couple of points,

00:06:34.520 uh, and we can get to all of it, but one of them is they didn't spare president Trump. They said the

00:06:38.980 agreement that he struck with the Taliban really undermined the fighting capacity or will of the

00:06:44.220 Afghan army. And that was sort of the beginning of the end of the beginning of the disaster that

00:06:48.240 we're looking at now. The general seemed to be in agreement on that. Um, but they did all go in

00:06:52.980 on that, on that point real quick. I think the key thing there is, is that how do you have an

00:06:58.640 agreement about the future of a country without that country's leaders being involved with that

00:07:03.100 agreement? Yeah, it's a problem. It's, it's set up for failure from the start. So they all condemned

00:07:08.080 that all these military leaders. And then, and then they said that they, they were very clear when

00:07:14.000 they found out that Biden, president Biden wanted to stick to this withdrawal date, that that was not a

00:07:19.380 good idea that we should not be taking out all the troops. We only had 2,500 troops there when

00:07:23.400 president Biden took over and they all thought we should leave them as just as a residual force.

00:07:29.480 And they made clear that they conveyed that result, that, that advice, he overruled them and said,

00:07:35.600 you have till September 1st, basically to get everybody out. And given that amount of time

00:07:40.840 and the very few troops they had, they had to make choices. What do we defend? They were talking

00:07:46.100 about why they had to abandon Bagram. It's air base. It was basically, they had to choose between

00:07:51.380 the embassy where all of our diplomats were and the air base. And they were making an assessment.

00:07:56.880 They said that the Afghan troops would hold the Bagram and sort of make, keep it secure for a while

00:08:02.500 after we left. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Things fell one after the other. And then it wasn't until August 25th,

00:08:10.200 August 25th, that Biden went to them and said, so could we come up with a plan that would allow

00:08:16.580 us to stay past, uh, the 31st of August? You heard Tom Cotton saying, are you, is this insane? Wait,

00:08:23.200 we have, we have Tom Cotton asking that question here. Listen, I was asked to make an assessment,

00:08:29.720 provide best military advice. I'm sorry. My time is limited here. You just get,

00:08:33.800 you gave me the answer that I needed here. August 25th? That's correct. Kabul fell on August 15th.

00:08:40.160 That's correct. You were not asked before August 25th? On August 25th, I was asked to provide best

00:08:45.740 military assessment as whether we should keep military forces past the 31st. Secretary Austin,

00:08:51.040 was anybody asked before August 25th if we should keep troops at the Kabul airport?

00:08:55.040 This is, uh, the president tasked us to, to make, to provide an assessment on whether or not, uh, we

00:09:05.040 should extend our, our presence, uh, beyond August 31st. And as General Milley just said, that assessment

00:09:11.820 was, uh, was made, we tasked him to make that assessment on the 25th and, uh, he came back and

00:09:17.600 provided his best military advice. Secretary, Kabul fell on August 15th. It was clear that we had

00:09:24.600 thousands of Americans, it was clear to members of this committee, we're getting phone calls that

00:09:27.460 we had thousands of Americans in Afghanistan behind Taliban lines on August 15th. And it took 10 days

00:09:32.840 to ask these general officers if we should extend our presence. I suspect the answer might be a little

00:09:37.260 different if you were asking them 16 days out, not five days out. Hmm. So explain, explain to the

00:09:44.260 audience, Kelsey, what he's, what the point he's trying to make, Tom Cotton. Um, I mean, the point is,

00:09:51.120 the underlying point here is, is a clear lack of leadership. It, it, it makes no sense to me when

00:09:59.180 this house of cards has fallen, it's already fallen. The house of cards being, being the Afghan

00:10:06.540 government, uh, the Taliban has already come in and taken over. And I, I, I don't know how you explain

00:10:12.980 a 10 day gap between that happening and a question saying, Hey, military leaders, what's your advice

00:10:19.060 on whether or not we should extend our troops presence there? Uh, you know, the, the whole place

00:10:25.640 is falling apart. They're quickly trying to get people out. Um, you know, I, I would like to see

00:10:31.920 if what, what, what more is there to the story, but, uh, given that exchange right there, it, it again,

00:10:38.220 just points to this utter disaster in the execution of this withdrawal. Um, to be, to be clear, you know,

00:10:44.500 I have long said and continue to agree with the fact that this withdrawal needed to take place.

00:10:49.960 Uh, it should have taken place long ago. When you look back at the Afghanistan papers that were

00:10:55.000 revealed back at the end of 2019, it shows how for so long, the initial mission of going into

00:11:01.120 Afghanistan to go after the jihadist terrorists, Al Qaeda, who had declared war and attacked us on 9 11

00:11:07.640 was a clear and necessary mission. Our special operators, our, uh, service members went in,

00:11:14.760 uh, essentially decimated Al Qaeda at that time, very quickly within months. And then, uh, then

00:11:22.320 president Bush shifted the focus away from that very clear and necessary mission towards, Hey,

00:11:29.360 let's go topple Saddam Hussein and go to war, uh, in Iraq and, and have this other regime change

00:11:33.900 mission and history played on from there. But when you look at Afghanistan, uh, very clearly some

00:11:39.380 leaders at the highest levels within our Pentagon, within the state department, within leadership

00:11:44.040 across different administrations really didn't know what our objective was, uh, in Afghanistan,

00:11:50.760 what, what we were trying, uh, to accomplish. So when we look at this within the context of that

00:11:56.680 history, um, and I've talked to a lot of my friends who are still serving today, a lot of my veteran

00:12:02.220 friends who've deployed to Afghanistan many times, they agree that this withdrawal needed to take

00:12:07.140 place, but it is heart wrenching and, and, and maddening to see how completely disastrous

00:12:15.900 this execution of the withdrawal was and continues to be. It's not in the headlines every day now,

00:12:22.500 uh, but it's, it's still happening. We still have American citizens there. We still have green card

00:12:27.840 holders there. We still have some of our Afghan partners and allies there who are still

00:12:31.860 stuck and who are still unable to get out. But can I ask you, I understand president Trump when we

00:12:37.580 had 15,500 still over there saying, we're not doing that. We're getting our guys and gals home,

00:12:42.040 but I don't really understand as well. We can't keep 2,500 there. Why not? Why not? There weren't

00:12:47.300 protests in the street here. That's not a forever war. That's being strategic, keeping an eye on Al

00:12:52.100 Qaeda, making sure they don't reestablish a foothold. Right. I mean, Dan Crenshaw was on the program

00:12:56.880 saying that you, you know, people like these pinpoint strikes, you know, we go in, we get

00:13:01.560 bin Laden, we get out. Like they love missions like that. Cause the, the, the risk of blood and

00:13:05.860 treasure American is lower. He's like, how do you think we were able to do that? We had advanced

00:13:10.840 teams. We had a presence there. We had troops on the ground, boots on the ground that helped us

00:13:14.400 understand where to go, how to get in, how to get out. You can't do that as a Navy seal, which he is,

00:13:18.520 um, without some sort of meaningful force there. So what was wrong with 2,500?

00:13:23.160 I think you've got to look at that within the larger context of the Afghan government

00:13:27.700 and, uh, the Afghan military forces and the Taliban and the reality of that threat on the

00:13:33.820 ground there. And, uh, what would be required of the American people, our taxpayer dollars

00:13:39.620 and our servicemen and women to be able to sustain that, uh, how much we have been putting

00:13:45.100 in to, to prop up this corrupt government. So I, I agree that we need to make sure that we

00:13:51.940 keep an eye on, uh, any growing or budding presence of, of, uh, other jihadist terrorist

00:13:58.640 groups, Al Qaeda, ISIS, et cetera, and make sure that we maintain the capability to go in

00:14:04.040 and eliminate that threat as early as possible before it's allowed to metastasize and grow

00:14:09.280 again and, and, and grow into an increased threat. Uh, but we have, and, and we have the

00:14:14.860 capability, uh, to do that just as we have in different parts of the world, uh, uh, with this

00:14:21.200 over the horizon, um, with this over the, over the horizon, very targeted strategic strike

00:14:27.200 and using our special forces, our special operators to be able to go in and carry out

00:14:31.400 these missions. I think that's critical.

00:14:33.340 I know. I mean, I w I would like to believe that over the horizon will work just as well,

00:14:37.900 but too many people who I trust have said that's a bunch of bull. We don't have anywhere near

00:14:42.800 the Intel capabilities that we need. Now there was a report today in the wall street journal

00:14:46.960 denied. I should say by, I think it was Millie, um, just now that we're negotiating with the

00:14:53.360 Russians that the Russians made us an offer saying, Hey, you can use our bases to spy on

00:14:57.360 Afghanistan. And, uh, that were that Millie actually spoke with his Russian counterpart about

00:15:02.680 it. My God, what? I mean, okay, but he's denied it. So I don't know that it's true. Um, and there's

00:15:09.320 a real question about whether, you know, how safe we can keep people when you got people like

00:15:12.520 Millie saying 12 to 24 months, we're likely to see an attack back here. Um, thanks to Al Qaeda

00:15:18.580 from some base in Afghanistan. Uh, my guest today is Tulsi Gabbard, former presidential candidate,

00:15:23.460 former Congresswoman from Hawaii. General Millie was defiant today in his defense of his call to

00:15:30.020 his Chinese counterpart while president Trump was still in office. And he speaks to that Nancy Pelosi

00:15:35.940 phone call to him in which she allegedly told general Millie that Trump was crazy. How he

00:15:42.520 responded. We'll play you that moment. Uh, and we'll get Tulsi's response too.

00:15:51.440 Welcome back to the Megan Kelly show. Everyone. My guest today is Tulsi Gabbard,

00:15:55.240 former 2020 presidential candidate and former Congresswoman from Hawaii. Uh, Tulsi. So let's

00:16:00.700 just talk about some of these Biden deceptions because it's not just the acclaim about nobody

00:16:05.720 told me that they didn't want to withdraw all the troops, which we now know is just completely

00:16:09.520 untrue. Um, but he was cross-examined or the, the generals were cross-examined on a couple of

00:16:14.100 other Biden statements today, including the statements. We will stay until we get out all

00:16:18.680 Americans. Well, that did not turn out to be true at all. He told Americans in mid August that Al Qaeda

00:16:23.980 was gone from Afghanistan and both general Millie and general McKenzie. Again, McKenzie is Frank

00:16:32.160 McKenzie, general Frank McKenzie, head of central command, which oversees Afghanistan.

00:16:35.180 Said Al Qaeda was absolutely present in Afghanistan when president Biden said that. I mean, he just

00:16:41.540 throws these things out there like, Oh, Al Qaeda is gone. Oh, great. It's that's a significant

00:16:46.960 lie. It's not true. And he said it, uh, so cavalierly. Uh, and then they, he was, they were

00:16:52.560 asked about Biden's claim that this operation was quote, an extraordinary success. And the generals,

00:16:58.500 all of them did their diplomatic best not to outright call him a liar, but had to admit it was nothing of

00:17:04.420 the sort. And so you tell me why we have a president who decides to lie on significant

00:17:10.620 matter after significant matter, but that's not something he repeatedly gets called out on the

00:17:16.200 press by the press for, like we saw with president Trump. You know, all of those statements that you

00:17:20.620 just read out align also with the phone conversation that's been widely reported that he had with the

00:17:26.960 Afghan president Ghani, where he basically told him, Hey, why don't you make it sound better than it

00:17:33.560 actually is on the ground in Afghanistan? Make it look like it's a better situation than it actually

00:17:38.860 is. Why he is as the president United States, our commander in chief trying to paint this rosy picture

00:17:47.200 that is not a reflection of the reality on the ground, uh, is, is beyond me, but is also just,

00:17:54.780 I mean, it's, it's irresponsible and counterproductive, uh, to say that, that anything

00:18:00.420 that happened with this withdrawal was an extraordinary success. I mean, a kid in grade

00:18:06.360 school who watches the news, you know, in the evenings with mom and dad over dinner could tell

00:18:11.640 you that that is absolutely not the case. 13 Marines are dead. Not to mention the drone strike we

00:18:17.980 dropped on a bunch of civilians, including seven children, the nerve to come out and call it an

00:18:23.000 extraordinary. So the nerve, right? There's hyperbole, there's looking on the bright side,

00:18:27.960 there's not creating panic when news is bad. And then there's just outright telling us not to believe

00:18:33.200 our lion eyes. And it's outrageous because we're talking about American military personnel.

00:18:38.920 It's, it's, I don't think there are words enough to convey, um, the feeling of, uh, betrayal

00:18:47.080 and anger and heartbreak that my brothers and sisters in uniform feel those who, uh, deployed to

00:18:56.000 Afghanistan, not once, not twice, but multiple times, those who have been spending these last

00:19:02.700 several weeks, uh, sleepless nights working day and night on their own, working their own contacts

00:19:09.920 on their cell phones, nonstop doing their very, very best to try to get, uh, their Afghan partners

00:19:16.840 out to try to get American citizens out. Uh, they getting phone calls, phone calls from people in

00:19:23.400 the state department saying, Hey buddy, can you help us get this person out? Getting phone calls from

00:19:28.100 people high up in this administration saying, Hey, can you give us a hand? Cause we, we need your help

00:19:33.420 Sergeant so-and-so to get somebody out of Afghanistan, utter, utter failure and, and,

00:19:40.340 and a betrayal betrayal to, to, uh, the, the thousands, uh, who put their lives on the line,

00:19:47.200 uh, in service to our country. And now even general Milley, and it was interesting to see the generals

00:19:52.120 kind of try to dance to protect Biden. I would say the only one who I didn't feel was doing that was

00:19:56.620 general Frank McKenzie, who seemed to me like the straightest shooter. The other two seemed to be

00:20:00.420 trying to thread the needle so they didn't say anything bad about Biden, uh, which is not really

00:20:04.620 their job. A couple of senators pointed out, it's not, it's not your job to run cover for president

00:20:08.240 Biden. Um, but in any event, they, um, general Milley made clear that American credibility around the

00:20:15.440 world has been damaged by the way we left. I think that that might even be an exact quote, American

00:20:19.320 credibility around the world, uh, that it's been damaged and there's really no getting back from

00:20:24.600 what do we do? How do we get that back? Start another war and then live up to the promises on

00:20:29.800 not betraying anybody who helps us. I mean, once that ship has sailed, Tulsi,

00:20:34.460 how do you, how do you recall it? Well, you know, the very first thing that has to be done

00:20:40.420 is being honest and being straightforward, being straightforward with the American people

00:20:46.240 and with the world and taking ownership and responsibility for the disaster that has and

00:20:52.360 continues, uh, that, that has been playing out and, and is continuing, uh, as we speak.

00:20:57.980 That's the very first step towards, uh, being able to earn that kind of credibility before being able

00:21:05.900 to earn that kind of trust that our commander in chief needs to have, uh, from the American people

00:21:12.860 and from our force. Let's talk about Milley and his phone call to his Chinese counterpart under

00:21:19.180 president Trump. Um, and what he allegedly did with the generals underneath him when it comes to

00:21:25.520 stopping a crazed Trump from launching nuclear weapons in his waning days in office made like

00:21:31.540 that sounds like an insane story, but it actually appeared in Bob Woodward and Bob Costa's latest

00:21:36.420 book. And that I wouldn't say it was an outright denial. Uh, that's not really what we heard from

00:21:42.660 general Milley today. In fact, it was more of a defense saying I was ordered to do all that.

00:21:49.580 I was totally fine within the chain of command because the then secretary of defense, uh, told

00:21:54.980 me I should. So here is, um, let me just make sure I have the right thing. This is general Milley

00:22:00.440 defending his phone call to his Chinese counterpart. Listen, with respect to the Chinese calls,

00:22:05.520 I routinely communicated with my counterpart, general Lee, with the knowledge and coordination

00:22:11.780 of civilian oversight. I am specifically directed to communicate with the Chinese by department of

00:22:19.160 defense guidance, the policy dialogue system. These military to military communications at the highest

00:22:25.340 level are critical to the security of the United States in order to deconflict military actions,

00:22:31.180 manage crisis and present, prevent war between great powers that are armed with the world's most

00:22:37.240 deadliest weapons. The calls on 30 October and eight January were coordinated before and after

00:22:44.500 with secretary Esper and acting secretary Miller staffs and the interagency. The specific purpose of

00:22:52.160 the October and January calls were to generate or were generated by concerning intelligence, which caused

00:22:58.980 us to believe the Chinese were worried about an attack on them by the United States. I know I am

00:23:07.160 certain that president Trump did not intend to attack the Chinese. And it is my directed responsibility.

00:23:14.880 And it was my directed responsibility by the secretary to convey that intent to the Chinese.

00:23:22.580 My task at that time was to deescalate. My message again was consistent, stay calm, steady and deescalate.

00:23:32.220 We are not going to attack you. So there you have it on the record. Intel was was suggesting that they

00:23:40.940 the Chinese were worried about an attack by us. It was in the course of my normal duties. I talked to my

00:23:47.000 Chinese counterpart all the time. And by the way, I was directed to do it by Mark Esper, then secretary

00:23:52.620 of defense. Would that excuse this? Yeah, this is something that that in my experience, both in

00:24:02.260 uniform, but also having served in Congress for eight years, largely on the armed services and foreign

00:24:08.400 affairs committees. This is not an uncommon thing for military leaders, for commanders to make sure that

00:24:17.680 those lines of communication are open between themselves and their military counterparts, whether

00:24:22.520 they be allies, partners, or even those that we may have adversarial relationships with for the for that

00:24:28.620 purpose of preventing miscalculations, preventing misunderstandings that could lead to conflict or

00:24:36.520 that could lead to war. And I think that's a that's a very important function that that our military

00:24:42.580 plays that even as things may be heating up on the the diplomatic side or the non military side,

00:24:48.840 those lines of communication from military leader to military leader are are very important and

00:24:55.220 critical. OK, but what what the book, the Woodward Costa book peril is the name of it reports is that

00:25:01.300 that he said this is a transcript, quote unquote transcript. I don't know if it's exact, but it's what

00:25:06.000 they report in their book. Generally, this is Millie on October 30, 2020. Generally, I want to assure you

00:25:12.200 that the American government is stable and everything is going to be OK. We are not going to attack or

00:25:17.960 conduct any kinetic operations against you. You and I have known each other for now five years. I could I could

00:25:23.660 be with you on it. So far, I could say, OK, you know, he's he they got some intel. He's trying to say

00:25:29.160 we're not we're not planning an attack contrary to what you may be here. Then there's this. If we're going to

00:25:34.560 attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time. It's not going to be a surprise. What? Yeah, I don't

00:25:40.920 you're in the military. I'm not. But that's that doesn't seem normal. No, no, period. And and that's

00:25:48.740 the part where I don't know if if General Millie was asked or if he commented on that in the course

00:25:53.720 of this hearing. Not that I've heard so far. Yeah. And that's really the issue is, you know, I don't

00:25:58.760 know the source for for the Woodward book. I haven't read the book myself, but any but any military

00:26:04.880 leader making that kind of statement, it just doesn't make sense because let's say that were

00:26:11.300 to happen. What would be the first thing that the country you're saying, hey, we're going to come

00:26:17.840 and attack you or we're going to launch a nuclear attack or we're going to do this, take this

00:26:21.920 aggressive action against you. What's the first thing they're going to do? Take a preemptive action

00:26:25.500 against us. So to me, it doesn't make sense. I don't want to comment on it because I don't I

00:26:31.800 haven't heard General Millie comment on it. And I think he did admit he should in question in

00:26:37.600 questioning by Marsha Blackburn as Republican senator, Tennessee, he did admit that he spoke

00:26:41.260 to Bob, Bob Woodward for his new book. He said he's unsure if he is accurately portrayed in the

00:26:47.940 book. But that's I mean, it'd be pretty extraordinary if he owns the first half of that,

00:26:52.340 but then not the second half. That's where Woodward went off the rails. And that's that's what's

00:26:56.920 problematic about the call. So hopefully they're breaking in just a few minutes for lunch.

00:27:01.680 But hopefully today or when they resume over the House side with the same kind of questioning

00:27:05.740 tomorrow, someone's going to get specific with him and make him say whether he said that.

00:27:11.580 Now, the second piece of reporting in the Woodward book that got Millie in some trouble,

00:27:17.040 though Biden standing behind him, is a January 8th call from Nancy Pelosi in which Nancy Pelosi

00:27:22.840 reportedly said she thinks Donald Trump is crazy and she wanted some assurances from Millie.

00:27:30.260 OK, so here's I'm just now trying to report what was said initially.

00:27:35.220 Two days after the Capitol riot, Speaker Pelosi reportedly initiated a call with General Millie

00:27:39.260 aimed at preventing a, quote, an unhinged President Trump from accessing nuclear codes.

00:27:43.920 So she calls out of the blue because it's two days after the riot and says Trump is crazy that

00:27:48.580 they say Pelosi circulated a letter noting, quote, the situation of this unhinged president

00:27:52.920 could not be more dangerous. And we must do everything that we can to protect protect the

00:27:57.240 American people from his unbalanced assault on our country and our democracy.

00:28:00.620 She said Trump should not be allowed to initiate military hostilities or access the nuclear launch

00:28:05.320 codes to order a nuclear strike. CNN reported that after her call with General Millie, Pelosi told

00:28:11.480 her caucus she received assurances about safeguards should Donald Trump decide to launch a nuclear

00:28:16.980 weapon. And General Millie's spokesman at the time said Millie answered her questions regarding the

00:28:21.140 process of nuclear command authority and then summoned senior officers to review the procedures

00:28:26.120 for launching nuclear weapons, saying the president alone could give the order.

00:28:29.500 But crucially, that he, Millie, also had to be involved. Looking each in the eye, Millie asked

00:28:35.580 the officers to affirm that they had understood the author's right. Again, this is citing Woodward

00:28:42.400 and Costa in what he considered, quote, an oath. And then just another piece of it tells the

00:28:48.760 according to reporting on the book Peril, Millie agreed with Pelosi's evaluation that Trump

00:28:53.800 was unstable. The call again, quote, air quote transcript, because I don't know if it's a

00:28:59.120 real transcript obtained by the authors shows Nancy Pelosi telling General Millie referring

00:29:04.260 to Trump. And this is a quote now in the same context. He's crazy. You know, he's crazy.

00:29:09.680 He's crazy. And what he did yesterday is further evidence of his craziness. Millie replied, quote,

00:29:15.920 I agree with you on everything. And then summoned the senior officers. So here is Millie today

00:29:24.500 responding to some of that. Later that same day on 8 January, Speaker of the House Pelosi called me to

00:29:30.360 inquire about the president's ability to launch nuclear weapons. I sought to assure her that nuclear

00:29:36.760 launch is governed by a very specific and deliberate process. She was concerned and made very or made

00:29:44.820 various personal references characterizing the president. I explained to her that the president

00:29:50.540 is the sole nuclear launch authority and he doesn't launch them alone and that I am not qualified

00:29:58.420 to determine the mental health of the president of the United States.

00:30:04.060 Your thoughts on that? I mean, I definitely don't want to get into litigating what was written in a book

00:30:12.480 versus what General Millie said. What I can comment on is the fact of, again, having served on the Armed

00:30:19.540 Services Committee, I am very familiar with the process and the layers of actions that would need

00:30:28.620 to take place should a nuclear strike be ordered. And there are a number of layers.

00:30:35.200 Can we talk about that? Because a viewer once or a listener once called me and asked me about that,

00:30:39.480 would Millie be involved in that at all? And frankly, I didn't know the answer.

00:30:43.320 General Millie, or the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, whoever that may be,

00:30:48.180 is not within that chain of command. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is that chief military

00:30:56.060 advisor to the president, but he is not within. And that's why he said he, I'm sure that's why he said

00:31:03.060 he's not best qualified to answer those questions. And it's why he had to call in and bring in

00:31:08.620 the general officers who are actually very specifically responsible and who hold that command

00:31:15.580 over executing that kind of directive. So the answer to that is no, which is why what you read about him

00:31:26.160 calling in, uh, calling in the, the different chiefs of the services and saying that he must

00:31:31.680 be involved. If that's true, um, that's not the way that, that the process is, is set up.

00:31:37.240 Cause he's saying not part of chain of command, but part of the chain of communication and the way

00:31:41.860 the Woodward communication spins it is this was his chance to say to those who might actually be

00:31:47.480 responsible for pressing codes or what have you. Um, nothing happens until you run it by me that this

00:31:53.320 was his assurance to Pelosi, you know, he was going to sort of run it, um, notwithstanding what a

00:31:58.620 crazed president Trump might say. And I don't like, I'm not sure whether Millie's going to get away with

00:32:05.260 answering again, the way he just did there. I mean, the question is really, were people forced to take

00:32:10.080 an oath to run this by you as Bob Woodward is reporting? Yeah. Again, can't comment on the Woodward

00:32:16.620 book, but I know with regards to the process, yes, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is that

00:32:22.060 communicator, uh, providing information and advice and so on to the president of the United States.

00:32:27.700 But when you're talking about the execution of a military, a legal military order, uh, the chairman

00:32:34.380 of the joint chiefs of staff is not within that chain of command. It's, I mean, it's really pretty

00:32:41.340 out of line for Nancy Pelosi, right? I mean, it's like, what are you, what are you doing? You're calling

00:32:46.100 up the chairman of the joint chief to say he's crazy. He's crazy. He cray cray. Like, what is she doing?

00:32:51.400 Um, that, that part doesn't surprise me. I, I don't, I, you know, I, I, and it doesn't surprise

00:32:59.980 me, Megan, because having, um, you know, been a member of Congress through, through the Trump

00:33:05.560 administration and through the Obama administration, the end of the Bush administration, um,

00:33:10.460 the hysteria, the hysteria around Donald Trump, uh, was, I mean, it was off, it was off the

00:33:22.340 charts so much so that, uh, Hey, you can agree with some of his things. You can disagree with

00:33:27.760 some of his decisions or his positions or things that he says, but it's important as elected leaders

00:33:33.160 in our country, responsible for serving all of the American people, not just people of your party

00:33:38.360 or people of your district, but responsible for serving all of the American people to be level

00:33:44.240 headed and to be able to examine each issue, um, on their, on their merits, uh, or, or not.

00:33:51.860 And unfortunately, uh, a lot of folks and the democratic party were so consumed by their hatred

00:33:59.240 of Donald Trump that it got to a level of hysteria where I think that, you know, you, you lose that

00:34:05.780 kind of objectivity that really the American people deserve, uh, in our decision makers,

00:34:11.400 uh, in our policy makers. It shows her hysteria, not any lunacy by Donald Trump. Even if she had

00:34:18.240 called, I don't know, somebody involved in elections and said, I'm really worried that Donald Trump

00:34:22.960 is going to try to mess with the tallies of the dominion voting machine. I'd say, all right, now,

00:34:28.860 now maybe I don't think she's a lunatic for raising this because he was so focused on it and he was

00:34:33.120 making all these claims to his lawyers another way, but he's going to launch a nuclear weapon.

00:34:36.880 Like what, what do you, what do you say? Like it does. Even if you have, even if you have that,

00:34:43.580 even if you have that concern, uh, I think, I think the, the concern, uh, under any administration

00:34:49.780 around, around, uh, national security decisions, foreign policy decisions, I think we, we should

00:34:55.080 keep in mind the fact that, uh, you know, for, for us and, and, and Russia, for example, we still have

00:35:01.000 a lot of nuclear missiles pointed at each other that can be launched within minutes notice. So,

00:35:06.540 so as from, from the national security and foreign policy perspective and trying to prevent nuclear

00:35:11.040 war, all of our leaders should understand what that process is, what the legal authorities are,

00:35:17.000 uh, and, and act responsibly in the best interest of the American people to try to prevent nuclear war.

00:35:22.240 That's one thing. And I think that's an important thing, something that I, I care and,

00:35:26.480 and have worked a lot on. It's another thing to, um, kind of allow your hyper partisan politics and,

00:35:34.500 and hysteria to cloud your judgment as a leader. That's where we, that's where we get into dangerous

00:35:40.060 territory. And that's where we've seen so much of the toxicity and the divisiveness over the last,

00:35:45.180 you know, I would say under the Trump administration, but it's continuing on now still,

00:35:50.620 it's tearing our country apart. It's undermining people's faith in our democracy and our leadership.

00:35:55.160 Uh, and it's set us, setting us down or making it so that we are continuing down this kind of

00:36:00.820 dangerous downward spiral. And there's, there's a whole host of issues we can talk about, uh,

00:36:04.920 with that, the direction of our country. I want to talk to you about, um, general Milley in general.

00:36:10.500 Uh, and he was asked today again by Tom Cotton, who really was punching him up pretty good, um,

00:36:16.060 about why he hasn't resigned even under his version of things. Why has he not resigned given the debacle

00:36:21.180 that was the Afghanistan withdrawal, given the fact that he's pretty clear. He told the president not

00:36:26.780 to do this and the president did it anyway. And it resulted in such an awful, you know, a scenario

00:36:31.300 and we'll play the soundbite of what Milley said when it comes to why he didn't resign. And,

00:36:36.560 and then there's the separate question of, we appear to have a very woke general, um, in this

00:36:42.180 position and whether general Milley is going to withstand the test of time, uh, given all he said

00:36:46.980 about white rage, et cetera. And then later we're going to get to Biden's domestic agenda with Tulsi

00:36:51.460 Gabbard. So stay tuned for that. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly show. Everyone, my guest today,

00:37:01.660 Tulsi Gabbard, former 2020 presidential candidate and former Congresswoman from Hawaii, a Democrat,

00:37:08.280 uh, who like yours truly isn't truly a hard partisan. I mean, just, you know, you, you call him

00:37:13.660 as you see him and that's, what's gotten you in such trouble when one of the things we love about

00:37:16.680 you. Um, or let's talk about Milley and whether he should resign given what's reported in the

00:37:22.220 Woodward book, given the fact that he's sort of admitting that the president didn't take his advice

00:37:26.600 and then this debacle followed Tom Cotton, put it right to him. Why, why not resign? And here's

00:37:32.000 what he said. But if all this is true, general Milley, why haven't you resigned?

00:37:35.040 Senator, as a senior military officer, um, resigning is a really serious thing. It's a

00:37:45.820 political act. If I'm resigning in protest, my job is to provide advice. My statutory responsibility is

00:37:51.400 to provide legal advice or best military advice to the president. And that's my legal requirement.

00:37:56.600 That's what the law is. Um, the president doesn't have to agree with that advice. He doesn't have to

00:38:01.680 make those decisions, uh, just because we're generals and it would be an incredible act of

00:38:07.820 political defiance for a commissioned officer to just resign because my advice is not taken.

00:38:12.840 This country doesn't want generals figuring out what orders we are going to accept and do or not.

00:38:19.720 That's not our job. What do you make of that? Um, civilian control of our military in our country

00:38:27.040 is essential. I think the question about resignation as an act of political defiance is one thing I would

00:38:37.660 here. Here's what I would, um, here, here's what I think is important to see. There needs to be

00:38:45.060 accountability for the disaster, uh, and, and the tragedy that the execution of this withdrawal from

00:38:53.200 Afghanistan was and continues to be. So I think the, the better question to ask rather than why don't

00:39:01.340 you resign as an act of political protest is who is going to be held accountable? Who needs to resign,

00:39:08.240 uh, because of what we've seen play out, who is going to be held responsible?

00:39:15.740 They can't answer that because it's Joe Biden.

00:39:17.880 Well, obviously that the commander in chief is ultimately responsible, but again, I'll, uh, in

00:39:23.340 addition to that, I will go to the fact that, uh, general Milley, secretary Austin, they're all

00:39:30.180 sitting there saying that they were completely surprised, completely surprised by how quickly

00:39:35.620 the Afghan government fell by how quickly the Taliban came and took over and that this massive

00:39:42.100 evacuation effort would have to occur. Uh, the reality is that there are commanders on the ground

00:39:48.900 who a month before who, who in July said, Hey, Kabul is going to fall by next month and we need to have

00:39:56.620 an evacuation plan ready to execute. Why wasn't that heated? There are commanders on the ground who

00:40:02.780 months before said, Hey, things are going to go to shit really quickly. We need to be prepared and

00:40:08.500 have a plan in place for that worst case scenario of the Afghan government falling and the Taliban

00:40:14.680 taking over and an evacuation having to occur. And this is where in, in one part of the hearing,

00:40:20.020 I think someone asked, uh, the, the, the witnesses there today, uh, whether or not in their plans,

00:40:27.540 in their tabletop exercises, did they include that possible eventuality, the fall of the Afghan

00:40:35.020 government? And I believe secretary Austin said, no, that was not included. Uh, I'm, I'm a lieutenant

00:40:42.140 colonel, uh, in the army reserves, obviously here speaking to you today as a civilian, but I can tell

00:40:47.460 you from my military training as an officer and as a leader, when you go through the most basic levels

00:40:54.380 of training and planning, it's called the military decision-making process. One of the things that you lay

00:41:00.380 out is what's the most likely course of action and what's the most dangerous course of action,

00:41:05.860 meaning what's the absolute worst case scenario that could possibly occur. And you plan for both

00:41:11.240 of those and other possibilities in between. So how, again, it's inconceivable that given what

00:41:18.820 commanders on the ground were telling their leaders and sending up the chain of command about

00:41:23.040 what they foresaw happening in Kabul and in Afghanistan with regards to the government and

00:41:28.500 the Taliban and just the basic planning requirement that you've got to plan for that most dangerous,

00:41:34.820 that most terrible possible course of action. Uh, how, how can secretary Austin sit there and say,

00:41:41.440 no, in our exercises and our tabletop rehearsals and exercises, we did not run through and plan for

00:41:49.440 that possibility that the Afghan government would fall and the Taliban would take over.

00:41:54.060 Well, and they're also clever about it, Tulsi, right? Cause they're like,

00:41:56.980 no one said it was going to be in 11 days. Oh, exactly. Okay. Sure. Well that excuse. So maybe

00:42:03.000 15, maybe 15 days, 16. And then you heard that, you heard that from general Milley when, uh,

00:42:09.280 when Tom Cotton said, you know, Kabul fell on August 15th, general Milley said it was August 16th.

00:42:14.160 Like, come on, give me a break. That makes a big difference. Now, wait, I'm being told by my team

00:42:19.420 that, um, Senator Josh Hawley really got into it just a minute ago. I think with Milley, um, I had,

00:42:23.900 I don't know about what, but I trust my team. You got it with, Oh, Austin, secretary of defense,

00:42:28.080 Austin. Let's listen to what happened. Please don't tell me that we're not leaving Americans

00:42:32.000 behind. You left them behind. Joe Biden left them behind. And frankly, it was a disgrace.

00:42:37.340 Let me ask you this though. Senator, thanks for your help and, and continuing to help get, uh,

00:42:42.100 American citizens and Afghans who have helped us out of the country. But as you've seen,

00:42:46.460 we've continued to facilitate. Well, actually, I didn't ask you a question, but since you seem

00:42:50.940 to want to address the issue. So, so since you do, isn't it true that you've left Americans behind

00:42:56.120 on August the 31st? There are Americans. There were Americans that were still in, uh, in Afghanistan

00:43:02.760 and still are. We continue to work to try to get those Americans out. It's another failed promise by

00:43:07.940 Joe Biden who said we would not do that. He said we would get everybody out. We clearly didn't.

00:43:12.060 And now the press is basically telling us it's time to move on. They won't continue to cover it

00:43:17.640 because they'd much rather shift to a story that's more favorable to him.

00:43:21.340 Yep. And I, you see that happening from within the administration themselves, uh, in wanting very

00:43:27.160 quickly to shift the attention to just about anything else other than this tragedy of the

00:43:32.580 withdrawal, uh, in, in Afghanistan, uh, worse, worse. And it's a shame that secretary Austin refused

00:43:39.000 to appear before the U S Senate foreign affairs committee when secretary Blinken was there,

00:43:43.540 even though the senators from both parties had, had requested, uh, that he be there because what

00:43:49.760 we see as a result is secretary Blinken says, well, I don't know. You've got to ask secretary Austin

00:43:54.380 and, and today secretary Austin, or, Oh, I don't know. You've got to ask secretary Blinken.

00:43:59.520 It's such crap where these guys are playing like finger pointing games when there are such high

00:44:05.180 stakes and there needs to be answers and accountability, uh, for the American people.

00:44:10.140 If you talk to the veterans and those who've been volunteering their time and energy to conduct this

00:44:16.180 massive evacuation on their own time, on their own dime, because of the failure of this administration

00:44:22.260 to do so properly, you, and I've heard this from different groups of people completely separate

00:44:26.960 from each other, how the state department was actively standing in their way, actively blocking

00:44:33.360 their efforts at evacuation. So, so it's worse than this administration's failure to do its job

00:44:41.380 and fulfill its responsibility to the American people, to our, to our partners and to our allies,

00:44:45.920 but to actively go that next step and stand in the way of those who are filling the gap and stepping up

00:44:51.980 and making it happen again is, is, uh, I don't know what other word to call it other than,

00:44:57.940 other than, uh, betrayal. That's what part of what's so infuriating is it's like, okay, we get it.

00:45:03.760 We get that Austin, that Millie, that McKenzie all went in and said to Joe Biden, don't do this.

00:45:07.860 Do not, we are not ready to do this. Do not pull out all the troops. Do not do it by, uh, August 31st.

00:45:13.380 This isn't going to end well. And Joe Biden, who's the commander in chief said, you're, you've been

00:45:17.580 heard and you've been overruled. Now go do it. But you're talking about endangering our troops. I mean,

00:45:22.940 and not to mention our diplomats and the other American citizens who are left in Afghanistan. And one

00:45:27.160 would like to think that somebody in Millie's position, somebody in Austin's position would

00:45:30.960 have done something, would have, you know, jumped up and down, done massive leaks to the press,

00:45:35.460 something, I don't know, but to say, you can't do this. You're going to endanger the lives of American

00:45:40.120 military personnel. Instead. Now we just see sort of the, you know, the coat hanger shoulders like,

00:45:45.280 well, I tried, I tried to tell him, you know, we did the best we could. And like you say,

00:45:49.500 now nobody is being held accountable. Nobody. They're all going to keep their jobs.

00:45:53.560 Yeah. That, that's the travesty here. And I think that's where it's important that we,

00:45:57.700 the American people don't allow this to go and, and like be swept away as though it never happened,

00:46:03.800 as though this is not still a continuing crisis with American citizens who are still overseas,

00:46:09.720 which by the way, we don't know how many the state department will give us a straight number.

00:46:13.840 They say, ask the DOD, the DOD says, well, the state department's in charge of the evacuation.

00:46:18.100 Yeah. We keep getting, we keep getting misled. All right. Let me pause you right there. Cause

00:46:21.820 we're going to pick it up. Um, one other question I want to ask you about Afghanistan,

00:46:24.340 and then we're going to turn to domestic issues like COVID next. Stay tuned for that.

00:46:33.580 Welcome back to the Megan Kelly show. Everyone. My guest today is Tulsi Gabbard,

00:46:37.560 a former 2020 democratic presidential candidate and former Congresswoman from Hawaii. Okay. So let's

00:46:43.260 just talk about general Milley for a minute and our woke military. And I, I realized he's said he

00:46:49.100 doesn't like that claim, but there's plenty of evidence for it and it's growing increasingly

00:46:54.180 disturbing. So general Milley, of course, uh, came out, he expressed support for black lives matter.

00:46:59.480 He, um, in, as reported by Carol Lenning and Philip Rucker of the Washington post in their book,

00:47:04.800 I alone can fix it. He said, president Trump was preaching the gospel of the furor in his rhetoric

00:47:10.440 about the illegitimacy of the 2020 election that he, Milley feared a Reichstag moment in the period

00:47:15.560 immediately prior to the Capitol riot. He reportedly referred to Trump supporters in November, rallying

00:47:21.080 on Trump's behalf as quote, brown shirts in the streets saying the quote, these guys are Nazis.

00:47:26.520 They're proud boys. These are the same people we fought in world war II and said in the, the Woodward

00:47:32.820 book reportedly in peril on their Capitol riot, that it was indeed a coup attempt, nothing less than

00:47:39.200 treason. Same guy said he wants to understand white rage and I could go on. So, I mean, I feel like

00:47:46.080 this guy's shown us his politics, which you're really not supposed to do in that position.

00:47:51.020 And it's the reason Biden won't can him, even though it definitely appears he did the thing

00:47:56.480 with the Chinese and with Nancy Pelosi that he was not supposed to do.

00:48:00.040 I have never throughout my life seen a chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff talk so much and opine so

00:48:10.420 much to authors and leaks and become so politically involved as General Milley. And it really does

00:48:18.120 directly undermine his ability to be a neutral military advisor to any president and for people to

00:48:28.580 recognize and trust him as such. I think that's, that's a very, a very big problem.

00:48:35.540 You know, again, to me, in my mind, this is, this is, this is unprecedented.

00:48:40.200 Mm hmm. Then you've got, um, Admiral, uh, okay, hold on a second. Let me get, let me get it. Two,

00:48:46.400 two examples. Admiral Michael Gilday, Chief of Naval Operations, bristled, uh, when he was questioned

00:48:51.900 about why they're having the military read Ibram X. Kendi's How to Be an Antiracist. They're having

00:48:56.820 the sailors read that, uh, just as General Milley defended it as well. And then the defense secretary,

00:49:02.260 Lloyd Austin, who we've been watching here all afternoon, he initiated sessions for military

00:49:06.560 members to attend, uh, to discuss extremism in the ranks after the Capitol riot. It included

00:49:13.340 establishing a, uh, counter countering extremism working group. Okay. That's what he wanted to do.

00:49:19.580 Counter extra sounds good on paper. What did he do? Well, he got this guy, Bishop Garrison,

00:49:24.420 a senior advisor to Austin, um, and the head of the Pentagon's countering extremism working group

00:49:30.260 to start talking to our troops about how to do this. This is a guy who in July, 2019 tweeted,

00:49:36.740 this is a quote support for president Trump. A racist is support for all of his beliefs.

00:49:42.360 He's dragging a lot of bad actors, misogynist extremists, other racists out into the light,

00:49:49.020 normalizing their actions. If you support the president Trump, you support that there's no

00:49:54.260 room for nuance with this. There is no more, but I'm not like that talk. This is the guy who's going

00:49:59.840 to be training our troops on how not to be an extremist. I mean, what's gone like, was the

00:50:05.760 military always like this and we just didn't know? Like, like what? Promoting and propagating the,

00:50:12.260 yeah, no, the answer to that is no. And, and the fact that, uh, this, this woke ism and this focus

00:50:21.040 on quote unquote extremism is being, um, uh, kind of inculcated throughout our, our military,

00:50:28.660 but, but even worse that so many members or, or, or extremism is, uh, being used as an accusation

00:50:38.140 against people in the military. Uh, let's start with the basics, Megan. What is, what is extremism?

00:50:44.040 How is it defined? Because I've listened to a lot of these briefings and I've listened to a lot of

00:50:48.620 leaders talking about extremism now in the military because of those decisions that, that, that, that

00:50:53.600 were made at the highest levels, that this is now a big focus extremism in the ranks. What is extremism?

00:50:59.000 Is it holding strong views on a particular topic? One could assume that for an individual, for an

00:51:07.020 American to say, I am willing to die for my country. Some might say that's kind of extreme.

00:51:14.180 That's an extremely strongly held commitment to service to our country, to our constitution,

00:51:21.800 to the ideals and freedoms that we hold dear. What is extremism? If you are a deeply religious person,

00:51:29.160 if you are very disciplined in your religious or spiritual practices, could that be considered

00:51:35.580 extreme? Some could argue, yes, it could be. And so for this term to be so, uh, loosely

00:51:43.880 paraded about in such a negative light without any very specific definition on exactly what they're

00:51:50.040 talking about, what they're essentially doing is casting this broad, um, brush across people in

00:51:56.880 the military and saying, well, Hey, this is a real issue. Extremism in our ranks without any kind of

00:52:02.540 definition. What they're doing is, um, I mean, it's, it's offensive. It's offensive and it dishonors

00:52:08.380 that very decision that every single man and woman who serves in our military and wears the uniform

00:52:13.660 has made saying, yes, I'm willing to die for my country. I'm willing to die to support and uphold

00:52:19.020 and defend, uh, our constitution. And so for our military leaders to, um, forcibly, uh, exert this,

00:52:28.060 this wokeism, uh, on our military and to jump on this bandwagon, which appears to be very popular these

00:52:34.360 days, uh, in, in this administration and in, uh, kind of, uh, the mainstream media, uh, and the woke

00:52:41.620 leaders, uh, it's, it's, it's dangerous and, and it undermines, it undermines the cohesion, uh, that's

00:52:48.140 necessary within our ranks. It's crazy to have him go. I mean, a military leader, all people go right

00:52:52.940 to the Nazi place, right? Like these are brown shirts and it's, it's not totally dissimilar to,

00:52:58.520 from what we're hearing about these border patrol agents now down in Texas, the, the lie that they

00:53:04.360 whipped people, which they did not. And the singling out of these guys who don't make a lot

00:53:09.480 of money, who are just trying to control an uncontrollable situation that they had no hand

00:53:13.320 in creating, right? Joe Biden created it and he takes no accountability, but now these guys are

00:53:18.280 probably going to lose their jobs. You know, their lives are going to be ruined. They're being dragged

00:53:22.040 through the mud by Joe Biden who's saying, you know, I'm basically, I'm going to get them before the

00:53:25.560 investigations even happened. Trust me, they'll pay. Um, they don't care that all, you know,

00:53:30.360 Ilan Omar, all the squad calling them out as racist brown shirts. We've heard terms like that

00:53:35.900 for these guys too. I mean, they just throw these terms out. Like it's going to have no impact on

00:53:40.040 their lives. Exactly. And that's where, you know, I, I consider Joe Biden a friend and it, it,

00:53:45.960 it pains me to see, uh, how deeply divisive, um, our country is continuing to become under his

00:53:54.700 leadership and specific to these, these customs and border patrol officers, as you said, who are

00:54:00.620 carrying out, uh, his, his policy doing their job under his administration. The first thing that he

00:54:07.660 says is I'm the president, I'm responsible. And then goes on to say how horrible these officers are

00:54:15.580 and that they will be, he says, there's going to be an investigation, but I guarantee you they're

00:54:20.400 going to be punished. They will be punished. And so for Joe Biden and all of his, his lofty speeches

00:54:27.040 about democracy and, and criticizing autocrats and how we can't afford to be an autocracy in this

00:54:33.320 country, he is in that moment, that living embodiment of what we fear, which is the loss of our democracy

00:54:40.500 and moving towards autocracy with the president of the United States, completely dismissing the rule

00:54:44.780 of law, the idea that we are innocent until proven guilty and single-handedly on national television,

00:54:51.760 acting as judge, jury, and executioner, taking away any hope that these civil servants, these customs

00:54:58.520 and border patrol officers may have of a fair hearing of a fair investigation and a fair outcome and

00:55:05.960 analysis of their actions. We don't even need an investigation. You can see on the tape, they didn't

00:55:10.500 do anything. I mean, it's like people are just making that up because they saw something that

00:55:14.440 looked like a whip and then stopped to remind themselves that they're all Yankees who have

00:55:18.020 never been south of the Mason Dixon and don't understand a rain when they see one. But there

00:55:22.760 is nothing to suggest. There's no whipping. They continue to show the same video saying it's whipping

00:55:27.840 and it's not. And it's because it goes in line with their belief about a border patrol agent,

00:55:33.980 same way as they, anybody who showed up at the Trump rally, right? I get if you were storming the

00:55:38.200 Capitol, you're problematic on some level. But anybody who showed up at the Trump rally on

00:55:42.480 January 6th, the so-called stop the seal, steal. I know people, I know very smart, professional

00:55:48.060 people who were there who did not riot, but they were there because they love Trump and they believe

00:55:52.240 there was some shenanigans. They're not brown shirts. How offensive to just go and throw these

00:55:57.840 terms out willy-nilly like they mean nothing. They mean something. These Democrats who throw them

00:56:03.860 around are the ones who are making them meaningless. And this points, all of these examples point to

00:56:10.000 leadership and the lack of it, how we have people in positions of power, the Biden-Harris

00:56:18.260 administration, political leaders, leaders in the media, people who are in these great positions of

00:56:23.660 power and influence who do not care about the detrimental effect that their words and their actions

00:56:31.680 are having on the American people, our security and our democracy, and are solely focused instead

00:56:37.340 on their power, their profits, their selfish political interests, and willing to do whatever

00:56:44.380 it takes to increase that power, for the media to increase their profits without a care again for how

00:56:50.520 this is not only damaging to us as the American people now, but the real toxic and divisive impact that

00:56:57.920 this is having that their actions and their words are having on our country as a whole for the long

00:57:03.800 term. Two points on that. Just an update for our audience on, we call them our moral arbiters over at

00:57:10.000 CNN. Don Lemon, we did a big thing on his law, his sexual assault lawsuit against him. And then Chris

00:57:15.020 Cuomo has been accused by his former executive producer of grabbing her rear end, only to be horrified

00:57:20.600 to see her husband was sitting right behind her and caught him. So he apologized in an email form,

00:57:24.720 which she published in the New York Times. Then we hit news hit last night that Chris Cuomo was

00:57:29.420 accused by his current she was up until recently his current executive producer. She said he bullied

00:57:35.300 her right out of the job. CNN found another place for her to go. But this these are our moral arbiters

00:57:40.120 who are saying everybody's a racist, everybody's a sexist. These same guys who are behind the scenes

00:57:44.440 are allegedly doing this stuff to vulnerable people want us to believe that they know better that we

00:57:50.300 should be listening to them. And honestly, Tulsi, the same is true of someone like Ilhan Omar,

00:57:55.160 who would love to see the Israelis lose funding for their Iron Dome and see bombs rain down on them

00:58:02.500 while she has the nerve to say things like this about the Border Patrol. This is a butted soundbite

00:58:08.700 of her. And listen, Congress must do the work of investigating and ensuring accountability of the

00:58:14.700 egregious and white supremacist behavior of Border Patrol agents in Del Rio, Texas.

00:58:21.200 What we witnessed takes us back hundreds of years. What we witnessed was worse than what we witnessed

00:58:28.800 slavery. Cowboys with their reigns again whipping black people. Because I was not aware that whips,

00:58:40.280 which come from the slave era, slavery era, were part of the package that we issue to any sort of law

00:58:46.780 enforcement. And I am quite appalled. You know, when it comes to our immigration policy for so many years,

00:58:54.600 cruelty has been very much embedded in it. There is obviously systematic racism at play here.

00:59:04.160 Ayanna Pressley, Maxine Waters, and then ultimately Ilhan Omar. Systematic racism is at play. And this is

00:59:10.400 worse than slavery, says Maxine Waters. Help me. Racism and identity politics is the tool that they are

00:59:21.800 weaponizing, that they are using to divide us, to tear us apart as Americans for their own political

00:59:30.020 gain, to get them more clicks, to get them more fundraising, to get them, you know, reelected to

00:59:36.560 their positions or to get to a higher position. Again, without any regard, without any regard for

00:59:42.500 the impact that that's having on the American people.

00:59:44.960 Wait, so that's very interesting to me. Because so what you're saying is it's not a genuinely held

00:59:49.100 belief by them? Because I look at somebody like a Joy Reid. She sees everything through a racial lens.

00:59:53.520 I mean, I dismiss everything she says. But these women that we, you know, the butted soundbite of

00:59:57.260 the politicians, you're saying it's not sincere that they're doing it for votes and clicks.

01:00:02.520 I can't see how it is sincere when they are so directly dismissing facts. You know, I can have a

01:00:09.480 disagreement with someone on their views. But if I see that they are sincere and objective and looking at

01:00:16.060 the facts, I mean, you use the situation on the border as, as a perfect example, if you look at

01:00:20.960 this situation, and you take a sincere examination of the facts and what has actually occurred, then

01:00:27.060 you and I can come to a different conclusion on what needs to happen or what should happen.

01:00:31.020 That I understand. But to have them stand there and deliver a press conference, making these

01:00:37.040 accusations and pointing to systemic racism and, and pointing to things that that actually just did

01:00:43.500 not happen, that that can only point to another another motive. And their motives, I think,

01:00:50.920 are very clear, again, to racialize everything. Everything these days is about race. There's not

01:00:57.980 a single thing that anyone can say people can't criticize Vice President Kamala Harris for her

01:01:03.780 positions on issues or her lack of leadership without being called racist, or sexist. There are so many

01:01:10.220 examples of this throughout our politics today. And it is an intentional decision to use race and

01:01:17.900 identity politics to separate us, to divide us, to foment fear and anger and hatred for their own

01:01:26.620 political gain, for them to be able to continue to hold power to sit on their high horse and cast

01:01:31.100 judgment on others who don't hold their same puritanical views on things. And therefore,

01:01:40.460 they feel they're in a position to judge, to judge everyone else. It's such a dangerous thing.

01:01:45.180 Obviously, it makes me so angry to sit there and hear that because it's irresponsible at best,

01:01:52.780 but at worst, it is having a detrimental effect on our country at a time now and always where we need

01:02:02.700 to find areas where we can be united. We can and must stand united on our constitution. We can and

01:02:08.700 must stand united on Dr. King's wonderful speech about how we should judge each other on the contents of

01:02:14.140 our character, not on the color of our skin, that we can have different ideas on how we solve the

01:02:18.780 challenges we face. But when we see each other as children of God, as brother and sister, as fellow

01:02:24.460 Americans and treat each other with that respect that goes with that recognition, then we can

01:02:29.420 actually solve problems. Then we can actually move forward rather than what we're seeing now with

01:02:34.300 political leaders only focused on how they can either preserve power or get power back and are willing

01:02:39.980 to sacrifice our country, sacrifice our country in their selfish, uh, uh, selfishly expeditious aims.

01:02:50.620 I was thinking about you on this because we talked the last time about how, uh, I want to make sure I

01:02:56.300 say it right. You're the first Samoan American and the first Hindu member of Congress, right? And so you

01:03:01.180 were this rising star of the democratic party. Everybody loved you until you started having these more

01:03:05.980 heterodox views on certain things and pushing back on the, these narratives and maybe wanted Bernie

01:03:11.660 Sanders to get a fair shake and not to put the thumb on the scale only for Hillary Clinton on the

01:03:16.140 democratic national committee. And then one of our moral betters, uh, Hillary Clinton, uh, really took

01:03:21.820 aim at you and suggested your Russian asset when you were running for president and so on. And now you

01:03:27.020 were one of the first people I thought of the other week when the John Durham investigation, he had to

01:03:31.020 get his indictment against this one guy filed or other, otherwise the statute of limitations was

01:03:35.660 going to run. And so what he's, we got our first real peek at where the John Durham investigation

01:03:40.940 into how Russiagate started is going where his investigation and where it's going is that Hillary

01:03:46.540 Clinton is behind it. That Hillary Clinton is the one who put out what she knew to be false propaganda

01:03:53.100 about Trump, the Russians, people around Trump and the Russians suggesting that there was some,

01:03:56.940 some, some server in Trump tower that connected with a Russian bank. And this is how they were

01:04:02.620 back channeling with Putin about how to get Trump elected and so on. It was her, it was the DNC, it was

01:04:08.300 her operatives. And she had so many people from lawyers to political operatives doing her bidding. It's

01:04:14.140 no, it's no wonder that's how she tried to take your legs out. She just went right back to her favorite

01:04:18.140 go-to the Russian thing, Russia, Russia, Russia. And so many on the left side of the aisle in particular

01:04:24.060 fell for it and still believe it, Tulsi, still believe it. So your thoughts on that,

01:04:28.940 on what we saw with the Durham investigation? Well, first of all, Megan, I'm sure that you were

01:04:34.460 just as impressed as I was to see how the mainstream media covered this story and blasted it all over

01:04:41.260 their airwaves, right? Right, right. Every headline. It's huge. Revealing the truth. Shock. Amazing.

01:04:46.620 Yeah. Maybe in an alter universe that occurred. But it's people like you and others who've been

01:04:53.500 really drawing attention to this, which is not such a big reveal for those of us who've been

01:05:01.780 involved directly with it. I mean, it points to, and the reason why, why isn't the mainstream media

01:05:10.140 covering this? Why aren't they pointing to Hillary Clinton and holding her responsible and accountable

01:05:16.540 for her actions and those of her associates, their collusion with the deep state? I know you've

01:05:23.840 talked before about how this guy was, you know, supposedly duped the FBI, duped the FBI about who

01:05:32.240 he was working for. They claim they had no knowledge of it, working with the mainstream media to sell

01:05:37.600 these lies. I mean, it points to the playbook that they use, the power elite. It points to the playbook

01:05:43.980 that they use to silence, censor, and eliminate those who they view as a threat to their power.

01:05:51.980 Those who are outsiders, Democrats and Republicans, people like me, people like Donald Trump, who dare

01:05:56.740 to challenge them, who won't toe the line, who's not going to go along with the establishment talking

01:06:01.440 points and policies, and who dare to say, hey, you know what? I'm putting country first. I don't care if

01:06:08.620 you're a Democrat or Republican in power. I'm interested in putting our country and the interest

01:06:13.120 of the American people first. They see people like us who are outsiders as threats. And this,

01:06:18.720 this, the actions that are being shown now through this indictment of what we saw play out throughout

01:06:24.640 the last elections, this is, this is exactly what they do. And the worst part about it is they get

01:06:31.660 away with it. And so they keep doing it. And they're working in cahoots with each other to

01:06:36.820 accomplish that. It reminded me of what we saw when Time's Up just imploded. I mean, the entire board was

01:06:42.220 forced to resign. Everybody, they're all gone. Alyssa Milano, Gretchen Carlson, they're all gone

01:06:47.240 because their leaders were exposed as being more interested in rubbing elbows with power

01:06:52.440 than actually helping any woman, especially any woman accusing a Democrat like Andrew Cuomo,

01:06:57.940 who Time's Up decided to help like Joe Biden, who remember they wouldn't help Tara Reid because

01:07:04.360 she has no money and needed somebody to help her, you know, tell her story or just run cover for her

01:07:09.220 because she was being assaulted in every single way that the press and her finances and so on.

01:07:14.260 And they were like, oh, we don't take political cases. And it turns out Anita Dunn, who's doing

01:07:18.560 comms for Joe Biden is behind the scenes, pulling all the strings, making sure she doesn't get her

01:07:22.560 help. So it's like to your point, wherever you look, these Democrats who are trying to tell us that

01:07:27.800 they're, again, our moral betters are secretly are interested in one thing, and that's maintaining

01:07:32.060 power. And that's something to remember when you see the Ayanna Pressley's out there and the

01:07:35.660 Ilhan Omar's out there. Is this a sincerely held belief or is this somebody who wants votes and is

01:07:42.060 manipulating, I would say, earnest people, right? I know a lot of liberals, all right? They're earnest

01:07:48.040 and they really, a lot of them really believe this is like BLM and yay and, you know, but they're

01:07:52.940 getting manipulated by grifters just to make sure that they vote correctly.

01:07:57.800 And this is this is the big untold story around our elections and influence in our democracy is is

01:08:06.600 the power of these people and the and the power of the media that they decide who gets to be heard

01:08:13.960 from and who doesn't. They decide whose character they want to smear and who they want to uplift and

01:08:20.700 put in front of the American people. You know, of course, they're not going to point the mirror at

01:08:25.780 themselves to say how big of a problem they are in influencing our democracy, but it is completely

01:08:31.500 a disservice to the American people who are busy working hard every day, trying to support their

01:08:36.880 families, live their lives and want to make that best informed decision about who they want to lead

01:08:42.280 our country, that that the information that they're receiving is absolutely manipulated and not with their

01:08:49.420 interests in mind. It's within the interest of this power elite who will do anything and everything to maintain

01:08:55.660 their stranglehold on power.

01:08:59.900 Up next, we're going to talk about how a bunch of teachers, bus drivers and military members are about to get

01:09:05.220 fired unless they take the vaccine, even if they have natural immunity. I want to get Tulsi's take on that.

01:09:10.840 And then we're going to talk about whether President Biden's domestic agenda is completely imploding

01:09:15.080 this week, thanks to infighting between the so-called squad, you know, the far left progressives and the

01:09:21.440 more moderate Democrats. And then in 20 minutes, we're taking your calls. What are your thoughts on

01:09:25.620 General Milley's testimony today? Do you believe him that he didn't actually talk about President

01:09:32.680 Trump being crazy with Nancy Pelosi? That was all her. That was he didn't weigh in on this. This guy who

01:09:37.680 reportedly talked about Trump supporters is Nazis. Let me know your thoughts. 833-44-MEGYN. That's 833-446-3496.

01:09:52.840 Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show, everyone. My guest today is Tulsi Gabbard,

01:09:56.620 former Democratic 2020 presidential candidate and former congresswoman from Hawaii.

01:10:00.580 And I would love to hear from all of you. Call me at 833-44-MEGYN. That's 833-446-3496.

01:10:11.120 Should General Milley be forced to resign? What do you think? Call me. Let me know. Okay. So let's

01:10:17.840 talk about what his critics are describing as the collapse of his domestic agenda. It hasn't happened

01:10:24.420 yet, but there's an interesting fight brewing on Capitol Hill right now about money. There's the

01:10:31.780 $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill that the Republicans are supporting too. And then there's

01:10:38.480 the $3.5 trillion. I said trillion on the first one, I hope. $1.2 trillion infrastructure and $3.5

01:10:46.440 trillion spending bill. And that's got all the Democratic wish list in it. Now, the progressives

01:10:53.360 are basically threatening that they're not going to support the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill

01:11:01.260 unless everybody gets behind the $3.5 trillion spending bill. And Nancy Pelosi was forging forward

01:11:10.680 with a vote, a standalone vote on just the, um, she wasn't going to forge it forward with the $1.2

01:11:17.520 trillion infrastructure package. And now she is now she's reversed herself, Biden and Schumer.

01:11:22.820 They all said one cannot pass without the other one should not pass without the other,

01:11:27.660 which was the progressive line. And now they're, they're folding. And it seems like they're only

01:11:32.220 focused on the $1.2 trillion infrastructure. And they realized $3.5 trillion spending is in serious

01:11:38.600 jeopardy because of people like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. And you tell me what all of this

01:11:43.740 means for America and for the average person sitting at home.

01:11:47.100 I think, I think it's important to look at, um, you know, some of the things, or I guess what these

01:11:52.780 two major spending bills represent and kind of the difference, uh, between the two, as you said,

01:11:57.840 this $3.5 trillion is kind of the Democratic party's wish list of all the things, uh, including

01:12:04.140 things like immigration reform, including things like what they're now calling quote unquote human

01:12:09.940 infrastructure, uh, a term I had not heard before, uh, this introduction of this. Right. I mean,

01:12:16.960 because, and, and I think the reason why they've tried to brand this in this way is because, uh,

01:12:22.680 you know, Democrats and Republicans, Americans across all political persuasions recognize, Hey,

01:12:28.280 yeah, my roads are in really crappy condition. Uh, we've got a lot of bridges that really do need

01:12:33.080 to be addressed. There are basic infrastructure needs that we've, that are, uh, have been kind of

01:12:38.700 extreme in this country for a long time. We need to invest in our basic infrastructure. So I think

01:12:45.020 they're saying, Oh, well, Hey, let's pull a fast one on the American people and say, well, this is

01:12:49.860 infrastructure too. When we talk about, uh, immigration reform, when you talk about, uh, uh,

01:12:56.600 how to address environmental issues or what they're calling the climate, the climate change package,

01:13:01.200 uh, which is essentially AOC's green new deal, what they're talking about with regards to,

01:13:06.000 um, you know, free, uh, childcare for all America, all of, all of these, um, social proposals that

01:13:14.280 they have, they've packaged into this thing they're calling human infrastructure, which it just, it

01:13:18.940 doesn't make sense, but it's also something that, uh, if they have these policy proposals that they

01:13:24.260 want to put forward, they need to make sure that they stand alone and have the debate that the American

01:13:30.000 people deserve about how their taxpayer dollars are spent. You don't, you don't put them in a three and a half

01:13:36.000 trillion dollar spending bill, slap a sticker on it that says, Hey, this is human infrastructure.

01:13:41.360 And if you don't like it, you don't support people, I guess humans. I don't know what their logic is.

01:13:46.680 Uh, and, and we're not going to go and fix your bridges unless you support this, this, uh,

01:13:53.440 comprehensive democratic party policy proposal, essentially. Uh, so it's no surprise to me.

01:14:00.020 It's massive. It's massive, basically trying to blackmail Nancy Pelosi and the more moderate

01:14:05.240 Democrats, if you consider her moderate, um, into giving them the 3.5 trillion. Just today,

01:14:11.500 we were looking at a report on what's in there to your point. One of the things is money for,

01:14:16.440 and I quote tree equity, tree equity. They want to make sure trees are planted in all the right

01:14:24.660 neighborhoods. Um, bias training, of course, all that DEI stuff is in there. And it seems to me

01:14:31.660 that the squad, she's calling their bluff. Like they're about to lose unless, unless they fold

01:14:38.320 and vote, you know, the way Nancy Pelosi wants them to. Um, I'm not sure what's going to happen

01:14:44.660 here because they might wind up with nothing if they don't, I don't know the Republic. There might

01:14:49.320 be so many Republicans who support the 1.2 trillion that that gets through even without the squad.

01:14:54.660 And it doesn't look right now today on this, this Tuesday, you tell me like the squad's going

01:14:59.480 to get their 3.5 trillion. Am I wrong? Uh, I don't think you're wrong. Uh, you never,

01:15:04.180 you never know what happens in Washington. Uh, but I don't, I don't see how that happens given

01:15:10.180 there are a few sensible Democrats, uh, who are holding the line and saying, yeah, this does not

01:15:15.200 make sense, uh, to the American people. It does not make sense to try to shove this massive package

01:15:21.000 through, which by the way, I saw in, in the house, uh, that their budget committee had passed it out

01:15:27.200 unfinished. So, so for members to say that they know what they're voting on or that it is a

01:15:34.080 responsible piece of legislation, I think is just, is just not true. Uh, you know, you mentioned tree

01:15:40.020 equity. I don't know what tree equity is. I don't either, but I like trees. I think we should plan more

01:15:44.680 trees. Uh, uh, one of my former colleagues, Bruce Westerman from Arkansas, he also agrees. We do need

01:15:51.480 to plant more trees. These are kind, you know, there are things that we can agree on. He introduced

01:15:55.740 a bill that says, Hey, we need to plant more trees. Let's invest in our environment. He's a

01:16:00.380 conservative Republican. I'm a Democrat. I said, yeah, man, I support that. But when, again, when you

01:16:05.140 try to shove all of these different things, uh, in, in a three and a half trillion dollar spending bill,

01:16:11.200 it takes away the accountability to the American people of knowing where their taxpayer dollars are

01:16:17.240 going, how much more debt these people are going to put our country and future generations in, uh,

01:16:23.020 and, and for what it is a completely irresponsible thing to do. And, um, I hope that there is, there is

01:16:30.060 a basic infrastructure bill that's passed because I think that it does have bipartisan support to a

01:16:34.540 certain degree. No one's ever going to agree on everything, but I think it would be very, very

01:16:39.400 irresponsible and detrimental to, to shove through this, this major spending package.

01:16:44.360 And again, partisan politics on all of it, right? A Biden's out there saying the cost will be zero.

01:16:51.160 Okay. Three point where they're going to spend 3.5 trillion in addition to 1.2 trillion in addition

01:16:55.500 to all the trillions that we've already spent during the COVID year. He says, we will pay for all we

01:16:59.320 spend. That's nonsense. There aren't enough rich people to tax. There just aren't. That's not true

01:17:05.860 what he's saying. Yeah. Show me the math, show me where the money's going to come from. And if your

01:17:13.020 answer is, we're just going to keep printing more money than the impact on the American people is

01:17:17.120 we're going to continue to see inflation rise. We're going to continue to see prices on basic

01:17:21.700 household necessities continue to rise. And so to say that there is no impact on the American people

01:17:28.040 is just, uh, it's, it's, it's false and it's disrespectful to us, the people to think that

01:17:35.340 we're even going to believe that for a moment. It will be. I mean, I love, um, the national

01:17:39.580 review podcast, the editors, I listen to those guys all the time and they have been very skeptical

01:17:43.600 that the Republicans or anybody could do anything to stop this 3.5 trillion dollar spending. They

01:17:48.180 had all eyes on Joe Manchin for a long time. Joe Manchin, sure enough, pull push back after

01:17:52.940 Afghanistan. It was like chips were taken out of the Goodwill bank for Joe Biden. Chris, Kirsten

01:17:58.040 Sinema too. She started piping up one by one that the dominoes started to fall. And now suddenly what

01:18:04.180 seemed to be an inevitability, uh, when it comes to spending the American people's money, uh, doesn't

01:18:10.300 appear to be a foregone conclusion at all. So it's a big week when it comes to money. Uh, I want to talk

01:18:16.120 about COVID cause it's also a big week. Every week seems to be when it comes to COVID couple of

01:18:20.200 headlines to run by you. Number one, Pfizer has submitted the data regarding its vaccine being

01:18:25.120 allegedly safe and having a robust response in five to 11 year olds. And I understand living in

01:18:30.840 New York now I'm in Connecticut, but I was living in New York for 17 years. There are a lot of people

01:18:35.200 who are like, I want it for my kid. I want it. I want it. You want it for your kid. I get it. Okay,

01:18:39.640 fine. I'm okay. If Pfizer says, and the FDA says five to 11 year olds can have it. What, what makes me

01:18:46.160 nervous about this is because if the FDA gives them, it'll, it would just be emergency use

01:18:50.300 authorization. It wouldn't be the full Megillah yet. Um, they're going to mandate it. That's

01:18:55.280 what's going to come next. They're going to mandate it. And the next thing you know, I've now got my,

01:18:59.460 my oldest son just had his birthday. So I have an eight, 10 and 12 year old. We already just got the

01:19:04.700 email from the school about my 12 year old and, um, my eight and 10 year old are going to be forced

01:19:09.080 to get this damn jab once this, once they make it permanent after emergency use. And I feel like my

01:19:14.100 choice is going to be taken away and I don't want that. Yeah. I think that's, that's the key point

01:19:19.000 there is choice. Um, you know, I, I chose to get the vaccine, uh, early on back in whatever it was,

01:19:25.380 March or April. That was my choice. Um, anytime you have the government trying to exercise their

01:19:33.720 mandate and force people to do something, force people to get this vaccine, uh, you, you take away

01:19:40.740 people's individual right to choose. And you also kind of spur, uh, a reaction from people saying,

01:19:49.080 hold on a second. You're not even allowing me the possibility of examining information,

01:19:54.140 doing my own research and making the decision that's best for me and for my family. And Oh,

01:19:58.480 by the way, you're going to tell me that if I don't do what you're telling me to do,

01:20:02.460 that I'm going to lose my job or that I can't go out to eat with my family, uh, that I,

01:20:08.660 that I can't, you know, go into certain places that I can't get on a plane and fly somewhere.

01:20:14.880 And my kid can't go to school. It can't go to school. This is, um, I mean, all of this,

01:20:21.560 all of these rules and things that they're putting out are a means for government control. And where

01:20:27.820 does it end? Where does it end? And so again, for me, yeah, my personal choice, I got the vaccine.

01:20:33.920 I'm glad I got it. Other people for whether it's religious reasons or personal reasons,

01:20:39.840 or because they've had COVID and their antibodies, uh, are, are so strong that they don't feel that

01:20:45.640 they need to get the vaccine. Um, you know, medical reasons. I mean, there's so many different

01:20:50.700 situations that, that individuals will take into account. Uh, they, they need to be able to make

01:20:56.060 their own personal choice and they should not be put on trap, you know, lists essentially to dictate

01:21:04.280 what they can do and where they can go. That it's, it's just set such, such a dangerous, uh, precedent.

01:21:10.840 It's so crazy where, okay, today, for example, New York city has set this Friday as its vaccine

01:21:16.800 deadline for all school staffers. So they say there's roughly 7,000 teachers who are about to be fired,

01:21:21.640 roughly 17,000 department of education staffers. Overall, these are, you know, janitors and so on.

01:21:27.480 These are not rich people who are going to lose their job. By the way, no unemployment insurance.

01:21:31.240 Our government, our governor has said, you don't get unemployed. You get fired and you get no

01:21:35.080 unemployment insurance. These people have already been through hell these past couple of years,

01:21:38.660 thanks to COVID. And it doesn't matter if they have natural immunity. Meanwhile, I look at what

01:21:43.280 just came out of the news in Italy, Italy's pushing vaccine passports for lack of a better term,

01:21:49.100 right? If you want to be in Italy, if you want to work in Italy, you got to have had the

01:21:51.440 vaccine unless you can show that you've got the antibodies from natural immunity. They recognize

01:21:57.100 that's another way of protecting oneself. And it's the only benefit of having gotten COVID.

01:22:02.460 Then you look at the UK, they say, we don't feel comfortable giving the vaccine to 12 to 15 year

01:22:07.720 olds. That's we're not there yet. Um, as 16 and up one, we recommend one jab, one jab, because all the

01:22:14.360 complications come after the second jab. You say you take either of those positions here in America,

01:22:18.840 you're an anti science freak who wants to kill people. Yeah. And that there's, there's, there's

01:22:24.240 two things I want to say on this. Number one is exactly that the, the, how this coat, how everything

01:22:29.840 surrounding COVID has become politicized where, Hey, if, if I want to go out or if I, if I say,

01:22:36.140 yeah, I want to wear a mask or if I'm going to get the vaccine, then, uh, obviously I'm a Democrat,

01:22:41.180 right? Or if you don't want to get the vaccine, or if you don't want to wear a mask,

01:22:45.200 then you're Republican and both sides are, are attacking each other because these are the

01:22:49.940 characterization, characterizations, uh, that are being put out there. And there's no, there's no,

01:22:55.560 uh, understanding really between the two, you're either for or against your, this, or you're that.

01:23:00.720 And these, these two sides are pitted against each other. So politicizing this, I think is,

01:23:05.240 uh, from the very beginning, been a big problem. Uh, the, the lies that we've been told from the very,

01:23:11.820 very beginning, uh, about COVID, uh, have, uh, furthered kind of the distrust that people have

01:23:20.080 from the very beginning with Fauci saying, well, masks don't work. Masks don't work. Meanwhile,

01:23:26.980 his real motive was, Hey, we've got to save these N95 medical grade masks for our healthcare workers

01:23:32.340 because they need it for protection because they work. Yeah. The so-called noble lie.

01:23:38.580 Exactly. The hypocrisy and, and the lies and the, the, uh, you know, the recent thing. Well,

01:23:44.160 Hey, big tech and, and some in our government, they don't want us talking about natural immunity.

01:23:48.240 Why? Why aren't they looking at the studies from Israel? Why aren't they doing studies themselves

01:23:52.440 to recognize, Hey, these antibodies that come from those who have had COVID, uh, you know,

01:23:58.220 natural immunity is a scientific effect. It's not some made up thing. We should talk about it. We

01:24:03.720 should examine it. We should study it. And so you look at how you, they wonder,

01:24:07.460 why are people so distrustful of things that are coming out of our government?

01:24:10.820 It's because of the lies and the misinformation, disinformation that they're prop, they themselves

01:24:15.540 are propagating the stuff around the monoclonal antibodies, Regeneron, the things that, you know,

01:24:20.440 we see DeSantis doing in Florida, the federal government and the Biden Harris administration,

01:24:24.620 criticizing, criticizing, criticizing rather than recognizing, Hey, this is a scientific treatment

01:24:30.180 that if administered very early on in one's infection can prevent serious implications

01:24:35.920 and hospitalization of fact, why is it? And then now that they've seen how it's been successful

01:24:40.720 in places like Florida, now the federal government, the administration said, okay, well now we want

01:24:44.880 to make sure that everybody has access, uh, to, to Regeneron, which, which really leads to,

01:24:50.560 uh, the, the point here about how, um, you know, we, we need to make sure that the American people

01:24:58.080 are getting facts, uh, that they're able to make the best decision, uh, for themselves, uh, and,

01:25:03.600 and that they have the freedom to do so. You mentioned the Biden Harris, uh, administration,

01:25:08.620 a couple of things on that. She's the borders are that's not going so well. She came out publicly

01:25:15.120 and said, I was the last person in the room with Joe Biden when he decided to pull out all the troops

01:25:19.300 from Afghanistan. Okay. No, when to hold your tongue. That was probably not one of those moments

01:25:23.580 he wanted to wave the flag and say, I did it on. Okay. Um, and I also don't think she's commented

01:25:29.220 on Afghanistan since I may be wrong. That's right. No, no, she's gone. She's gone quiet. You know,

01:25:33.420 she's the end, which is obviously a political calculation. But in the meantime, you look at the

01:25:36.980 guy in the top spot, uh, there was a poll out pew, uh, Biden's dropped 11 points since just last

01:25:44.460 March. When, when people were asked, do you believe the term mentally sharp describes Joe Biden?

01:25:50.180 Well, people are really starting to doubt him. The longer he is out there and exposed to the

01:25:54.940 American people, the more doubts people have about his mental acuity, his age and so on.

01:25:59.180 There's been tons of examples that would give you reason to doubt. And frankly, just some of the

01:26:03.000 things, things we discussed, like, are these lies or are these like the signs of a guy who no longer

01:26:07.260 remembers what was said or what the facts are? Cause the fact that he would say Al Qaeda was gone from

01:26:11.180 Afghanistan in mid August is really kind of nuts and seems like more than a lie. It seems like just

01:26:15.960 insanity. That's just like, what are you, what? Of course they're not. Everybody knows that. But

01:26:20.100 anyway, um, so what do you think now about his old one-term promise, whether she is the standard

01:26:26.800 bearer and whether we're going to see a Harris Trump race in 2024? Um, we'll see what 2024 brings.

01:26:35.820 It's, it's 2021. Now, uh, I feel like a lot happens in the span of a week, what to speak of a month

01:26:42.080 or, or, or the coming years. Um, I think it's important that, that we recognize what the American

01:26:48.840 people are seeing and what they're saying in some of these polls is that unfortunately, uh,

01:26:54.540 president Joe Biden is not keeping his promise to unite the American people, to bring us together

01:27:01.420 around our shared ideals. And instead, uh, the Biden Harris administration is choosing again,

01:27:08.320 as we talked about earlier to use race and identity politics to divide us for political reasons. Uh,

01:27:14.600 you see how his, uh, they're, they're open. Essentially it's an open border policy, uh,

01:27:20.040 that that's having such a detrimental effect in a, in a humanitarian creating a humanitarian crisis,

01:27:25.500 as well as a security crisis where, you know, we have all of this vetting, these vetting procedures

01:27:30.660 in place for people who want to fly into our country. They've got to go through customs. They're

01:27:35.060 checked off of terror watch lists. You've got all of these visas. They've got all these different

01:27:39.340 things. But if someone really wanted to come here, really all they'd have to do is get into Mexico

01:27:43.680 and come across the border. Uh, and, and the security, the threat, the security threat, um,

01:27:50.160 that that poses, you look at the impact on the economy, how inflation is continuing to rise.

01:27:54.100 We're talking about these massive spending bills that no one is talking about what the actual costs

01:27:58.880 and implication on our economy, uh, will be should these bills are passed. Uh, you know, you look at,

01:28:04.700 you look at big tech, you look at, uh, the, the woke ism, the cancel culture, you look at all of

01:28:09.460 these different things. And sadly, uh, for our country's sake, it's pointing how the leadership

01:28:14.860 under the Biden Harris administration is taking us, uh, in, in the wrong direction. And it's something

01:28:20.360 that they are going to both of them, regardless of where they are, who's running, both of them will

01:28:25.360 have to be held to account for, uh, come 2024. Yeah. And even before that in the midterms, uh,

01:28:31.320 next time, Tulsi Gabbard, what a pleasure. Great to see you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

01:28:36.960 Tulsi's leaving us now, but I'm still taking your calls and that's next. Call me now.

01:28:40.840 833-44-MEGYN. You can still get here. You can get on the queue and I'll speak with you in two minutes.

01:28:47.240 833-446-3496.

01:28:50.320 Welcome back, everybody. The phone lines are open. Call us at 833-44-MEGYN. Uh, let me start

01:29:00.620 in Virginia with Andrew, who's got some thoughts on a presidential ticket that are interesting. Hey,

01:29:06.020 Andrew, what's on your mind?

01:29:07.540 Well, first of all, thank you for the unnamed mention in the show today. I, I'm glad I was able

01:29:12.780 to add. I was the guy who called about Millie being out of, uh, the chain of command.

01:29:17.240 Oh, yeah. Oh, you got on twice. Look at you.

01:29:21.460 But the other thing is, this is exactly why when the democratic, um, uh, nomination process was going

01:29:29.440 on, I kept looking at my wife. I go, if they're smart, don't nominate Tulsi. And it would be even

01:29:35.520 hard for me to choose between Tulsi and Trump. She is, is brilliant. She is the middle road Democrat

01:29:43.260 that my parents were. Uh, and, and I'm telling you, I don't care if it was Gabbard and Crenshaw

01:29:49.100 or Crenshaw and Gabbard. I would vote that ticket in, in a heartbeat. And then maybe exactly what

01:29:55.660 heals this country, because both of those people come at it. First of all, both former military,

01:30:01.120 that probably has a lot to do with it, but they also come at it. Common sense. Dan Crenshaw says stuff

01:30:05.940 all the time that I go, Oh, as a Republican, it just makes me mad. But he, but he's, he's honest.

01:30:13.680 Yes. He's why he's why. His only problem as a politician is he may be too honest, but we can't

01:30:19.420 beat that out of him. We've got, we've got to reward that. Even if it goes against, you know,

01:30:23.680 your sensibility of the day, you, you do need honest brokers. That's what she is. That's why she

01:30:27.720 didn't last in the democratic primary because people like Hillary Clinton were horrified. She was telling

01:30:32.960 the truth about things like them. But I like that idea. Tulsi and Dan Crenshaw. I agree. I'd vote

01:30:38.760 for that too. All right. Thank you, Andrew, for your, your, how about that twice? Andrew's got luck

01:30:42.740 of the draw. Um, let's go to, let's see, Will in Pennsylvania. What are your thoughts, Will? How

01:30:47.580 are you doing? Ah, it's great to talk to you again. Now we got twice, twice. I'm going to try and say

01:30:53.000 this in 30 seconds. You guys are so lucky. Go ahead. Yeah, go. Yes, we are. We are. Cause it's you

01:30:58.360 that we get to talk to. First of all, in 30 seconds, I'll try and get this, uh, set. It's

01:31:03.540 not so much the general. I mean, it's obviously Woodward and what he wrote and crazy Nancy. I mean,

01:31:09.060 let's remember she ripped up those papers right during the state of the union. That's how crazy

01:31:13.840 she had. Secondly, fully vaccinated. It should become our identity when we're not vaccinated.

01:31:20.960 Cause back when I took a flu shot a couple of years ago, I said, you know, that's the last one.

01:31:25.320 This doesn't do to be any help. I'm sick and tired of this hurting our, our children. I have

01:31:29.760 a 16 year old son. It's killed him in high school already. And I feel so bad for your three young

01:31:34.620 ones. So let's just say, Hey, we're, I'm a truck driver. I'm willing to get fired because I am fully

01:31:40.900 vaccinated. I had my last one and that's what I'm writing on the paperwork. I'm already fully

01:31:44.920 vaccinated. Same. I'm fully vaccinated. And I think it's different for adults than it is for kids.

01:31:49.580 I don't want to see mandates for adults either, but I really don't want to see them for children

01:31:53.140 and they're coming. Uh, okay. How about, let's see, Pam in Texas, what's on your mind, Pam?

01:31:58.780 Oh, Megan, it is so good to talk to you. I'm so thrilled you're on the radio and you're a segue

01:32:05.680 to my other favorite person, Dr. Laura, but I want to, I'm just so happy you're on the air. I just

01:32:12.080 love you to death. And I'm just so pleased that you have this show. Well, I wanted to talk to Tulsi

01:32:18.600 and ask on behalf of 1 million other conservatives, the big question of why she can still be a member

01:32:29.740 of the Democratic Party since they are against everything she stands for. She's the opposite,

01:32:35.960 polar opposite of everything and every initiative. And I just don't understand why she doesn't,

01:32:42.520 if nothing else, become an independent. I mean, not that she has to get an R behind her name,

01:32:47.460 but I would have voted for her. I mean, she is definitely somebody. Yeah. She can definitely

01:32:53.760 get crossover votes. I don't know. I don't want to answer for her, but I did hear her on special

01:32:57.460 report with Brett Baer and she, he asked her a question about that. She said she's still a

01:33:01.180 Democrat. And I think just knowing what I know about her, she is definitely more, uh, liberal when

01:33:07.880 it comes to economic policies. You know, she likes, um, like free college tuition, quote, free

01:33:13.940 college tuition and Medicare for all. And when it comes to the economy and spending,

01:33:18.720 I think she's probably more blue than she is red, but she's bred on a lot of things. And that's what

01:33:23.740 we need, right? We need more people who are blue and red, who are purple. We don't need all hard,

01:33:28.720 hard partisans going into elected office. That's one of the problems with redistricting and corporate

01:33:32.960 money and so on. Anyway, listen, thank you for your calls. I want to tell you tomorrow, don't miss

01:33:36.480 the show. Former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, who General Milley said, authorized him to have

01:33:42.380 that phone call with the Chinese. Pompeo is going to be here to respond. Download the show today on

01:33:46.900 Pandora Stitcher, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly to watch it.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 28, 2021

Tulsi Gabbard on the Afghanistan Withdrawal Hearing and the ‘Woke-ification’ of the Military ｜ Ep. 169

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