The Megyn Kelly Show - Unanswered Questions： Idaho College Murders and Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly Show Special - Part Five ｜ Ep. 692

00:00:00.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.860 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I'm Megyn Kelly. All week, we've been bringing you a special

00:00:18.280 edition of the show, where we take you inside the murder case that has captivated the country

00:00:23.120 for the better part of a year. The story of the quadruple murder in Moscow, Idaho, and of suspect

00:00:29.680 Brian Kohlberger. Today, we conclude our series. We brought you the details of the murder, the arrest,

00:00:36.560 the potential paths for the prosecution and defense when the trial begins next year,

00:00:40.580 and we examined the dark side of Kohlberger and his past. And now, some of the unanswered questions

00:00:47.840 that are still swirling about this unfathomable crime. As this concludes, I would love to hear

00:00:54.840 your thoughts on all of it. What stands out to you about this case? Have you made up your mind

00:00:59.980 about Kohlberger's guilt? And if not, why not? What lingering questions do you still have?

00:01:06.580 This case will be front and center in 2024. We'll be covering the trial as it happens.

00:01:11.180 Remember, cameras will be in the courtroom for this one, which will be absolutely fascinating.

00:01:15.680 Email me your thoughts on this program, on the Kohlberger case at megan, M-E-G-Y-N, 0.99

00:01:24.340 at megankelly.com. All right? Megan at megankelly.com. And if you go to megankelly.com and sign up there

00:01:31.740 for our weekly email, we'll provide you with behind-the-scenes details on the reporting of this

00:01:37.940 case. As with our previous episodes, today's features the writing and the reporting of legendary

00:01:45.320 crime journalist and author Howard Bloom. Bloom has been reporting on this case for nearly a year.

00:01:50.760 He's written compellingly about it for Air Mail News. His forthcoming book on the case will be

00:01:55.380 published in the spring by HarperCollins. Keep that on your radar. But for now, big questions include

00:02:01.340 the following. One, assuming it was Kohlberger, as the police allege, why? Why did he do it? What

00:02:09.480 could his motive have been? Was he targeting a specific victim and then the crime spun out of

00:02:16.280 control? Two, if it was Kohlberger, is it possible he had help? Could there be an accomplice in the

00:02:24.540 picture here? And three, what about the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany

00:02:31.240 Funk? What did they see? Why didn't they call the police right away? And what are they up to now?

00:02:38.220 As we tackle those questions, one name in particular stands out as a person who has been at the forefront

00:02:44.080 of asking questions and pushing for answers. It's not a podcaster or a crime reporter, although there

00:02:51.420 have been plenty of those too. It's a dad. A father with a deep and tragic connection to this story.

00:02:58.100 The four victims in the case, Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kurnodal, and Maddie Mogan.

00:03:05.680 All their parents have spoken out on behalf of their children, but one father in particular

00:03:10.600 seems to have led the push for answers. And that is Steve Gonsalves, Kaylee's dad. Within weeks,

00:03:18.080 he was out on all the national news channels.

00:03:20.240 You can't imagine sending your girl to college and then they come back in a, you know, in an 0.63

00:03:27.040 urn. It was fast. And nobody suffered and nobody felt like that kind of pain.

00:03:36.780 Every day that goes by and you don't hear anything, what does that do?

00:03:40.540 Just tells me statistically I'm going to have to do more work myself. I'm not going to sit here

00:03:45.960 and just be a crybaby dad. It's going to be a cold case if we don't do something within the next

00:03:51.680 week or two. He stayed on it, talking after Kohlberger's arrest and arraignment.

00:03:58.960 I'm just like everyone else. I want to know exactly what's going on. I want to see all the

00:04:03.220 evidence. All the information will come out, but it doesn't have to come out in multiple times in

00:04:07.740 multiple ways. And continuing to push for the facts to get out to the public and to his family.

00:04:14.580 He and his wife, Christy, spoke to a local news outlet.

00:04:19.020 It's been almost a year. I mean, it's hard to believe, right? How are you guys doing? I think

00:04:24.380 people would love to know that. I think we're doing the best we can. And I think that that is

00:04:32.440 to be thankful to all the people that are wondering about us. They really get us through,

00:04:40.380 you know, co-workers, friends. They're like family now. And, um, I think it'd be much harder

00:04:47.540 without all the love and support. Yeah. We've got a page where we're able to talk to people all

00:04:54.260 across the world that this has made an impact and change in their life. So that helps.

00:04:59.440 Behind the scenes, Steve has been active too, doing his own detective work before and after

00:05:06.560 co-workers arrest. He says he needed to know if all the facts were uncovered. He needed to keep

00:05:11.560 pushing. As Howard Bloom writes, among those Steve tracked down early in the case was Hunter Johnson,

00:05:19.340 Ethan Chapin's frat brother and best friend. Just before noon on November 13th, Hunter Johnson had been

00:05:27.000 summoned by the two distraught survivors to the King Roadhouse, where he had discovered Ethan's

00:05:32.620 body. Days later, he gave his eyewitness account to Kaylee's dad, Steve, as a soldier might.

00:05:39.520 Straightforward, factual, and without either embellishment or emotion. It was only when he

00:05:45.340 finished that the two men, both overwhelmed, at last convulsed into tears. Steve also made a point

00:05:52.900 of knocking on the doors of the houses adjacent to the murder scene and interrogating the neighbors.

00:05:57.800 He was going where he felt he had to go, but his mission had not produced the desired result.

00:06:03.600 Over a month had passed since the murders, and there had been no arrests, only vague statements

00:06:09.380 about a missing Hyundai Elantra that had been spotted near the King Roadhouse the night of the murders.

00:06:15.000 The authorities had yet to name a suspect. It was infuriating. The prospect of his daughter's

00:06:20.000 murder becoming one more cold case was torture. But as much as he needed to see a perp being let

00:06:26.520 off in handcuffs, Steve Gonsalves was also chasing after something else. He needed to know why.

00:06:34.260 Why these kids? Why this house? Why had this nightmare enveloped his family's life? For his own peace of mind,

00:06:41.980 he required a motive. And without this knowledge, nothing in his life from November 13th onward

00:06:48.980 would ever make sense. He did posit to Court TV in June that perhaps jealousy was a factor.

00:06:58.200 They're just two girls that were always happy, always filming. So I think maybe he just seen that

00:07:04.880 happiness and there's something in him that was jealous of the fact that two people could love each

00:07:10.180 other. It'd be like the best friends. And I think that really rubbed him wrong and got him thinking

00:07:17.980 about, well, why do they have this great life? And I don't. And I think that's whoever he picked,

00:07:24.780 that'll be the backstory is just a jealousy of their lifestyle.

00:07:32.480 Steve remains open to the possibility that others might also have been involved here,

00:07:37.120 according to texts provided to Bloom. It seems to Steve quite possible that there were more

00:07:43.700 perpetrators in the house on King Road on the night his daughter and her friends were killed.

00:07:48.080 And if there were, they must still be at large. He is furious that Kohlberger's trial,

00:07:54.340 which had been scheduled to start on October 2nd, has been postponed indefinitely. He fears,

00:07:59.520 he's complained, according to Bloom, that the trial will not occur for many months or even years.

00:08:03.780 And he's particularly incensed by the no-nonsense gag order that severely limits what the law

00:08:10.000 enforcement authorities, the lawyers, and even the families of the victims can publicly say about

00:08:15.500 the case. It is not just that he deems this a violation of his fundamental constitutional rights.

00:08:22.220 Rather, the paucity of specific intelligence has created a vacuum that is being filled by rumors,

00:08:28.100 half-truths, and crackpot lies. And once these malignant seeds are planted, they grow tall and

00:08:34.940 wild on the internet. Steve needs answers, not rumors. And so despite the arrest of a suspect,

00:08:41.880 he has not abandoned his quest. He has a clear mission, as he told News Nation in May.

00:08:48.320 I feel like we have a mission, we have a job to do, we have things that have to happen.

00:08:52.440 And when I see those things happening, that helps me understand that we're going in the right

00:08:59.100 direction. And that's always better than just sitting and waiting for who knows what's going

00:09:05.440 to happen. And it's not simply vanity, the belief that one middle-aged guy with only a background in

00:09:12.200 IT can get to the bottom of things in a special way. It's fear that propels him, the fear that if he

00:09:20.080 waits passively for the cops finally to share what little they have managed to uncover,

00:09:24.620 it might be too late. The remaining unidentified perpetrators will have gone to ground and justice

00:09:31.060 will not be secured. Nor will he ever get the terrible satisfaction of knowing the whole story.

00:09:36.980 He will never achieve the state of grace that comes, he wants to believe, with understanding a

00:09:41.900 motive. He will never know the answer to the question at the beating heart of this case.

00:09:46.540 Why? And so for the past year, he has plowed on. It has not been easygoing or always fruitful.

00:09:55.700 For one cruel example, early on, an enticing tip came his way, according to the texts from a source

00:10:01.580 he described as a, quote, jailhouse snitch. That's who gave him the tip. It was a tale that offered to

00:10:08.320 tie up all the loose ends of the case. And spurred on by that promise, both Steve and the private

00:10:13.200 detective he had hired fanned out with their inquiries into several states, energized by the

00:10:18.540 intoxicating possibility that he was on the verge of accomplishing what the professionals had failed

00:10:23.120 to do. But in the bitter end, it was nothing more than an elaborate con, a malicious scheme to squeeze

00:10:30.220 some money out of a grieving family's misery. The experience was demoralizing.

00:10:36.160 As for the rumors of a drug deal gone bad being the underlying motive, Steve had been told by the

00:10:43.140 authorities that the toxicity reports on all four of the victims established that they had no drugs

00:10:48.620 in their system. Besides, if they wanted to score some pot, there was no need to get involved with a

00:10:54.100 street dealer. The kids, he pointed out, could go down a street and in eight miles, there was a store

00:10:59.940 where they could easily make a buy, despite the fact that marijuana remained illegal in Idaho.

00:11:06.060 Christy, his wife, went with them once to check it out. He texted the friend, reports Bloom.

00:11:13.340 News Nation's Brian Enten asked prosecutor Bill Thompson in November 2022 if drugs were involved

00:11:19.660 in the case, and the veteran DA made no bones about the answer.

00:11:24.120 Could drugs be involved in all of this? I have not heard that there's any suspicion

00:11:31.200 that drugs played a role in the killings. So not like a drug deal gone bad or something like that?

00:11:36.320 I am not aware of anything like that, no. What else did Steve learn as he did his own

00:11:43.880 investigation into his daughter's murder? Kohlberger had purchased a dark blue Dickies

00:11:49.900 long-sleeved work uniform at the Walmart in Pullman, Washington, not long before the murders

00:11:55.680 was one thing he learned. The authorities had a copy of the $49.99 receipt, and they also now had a

00:12:03.120 theory to explain how Kohlberger had managed to escape from the crime scene without a scratch

00:12:08.560 and without leaving an incriminating drop of blood in his getaway car or his apartment.

00:12:14.080 Perhaps he had worn the work uniform during the murders and then had disrobed before he got behind

00:12:19.040 the wheel of his Hyundai Elantra for his circuitous drive back to his apartment. Perhaps the

00:12:24.980 authorities hypothesized he had stuffed the work suit into a plastic garbage bag and then shoved it

00:12:30.840 into his trunk. Only authorities could find no sign of the Dickies outfit. The police had looked high

00:12:37.400 and low, but they could not find it just as they could not locate the murder weapon. They had a receipt

00:12:44.180 for a K-bar knife he had purchased, Brian, online months before the killings, but this too had seemingly

00:12:52.680 vanished. And as long as these two crucial pieces of evidence remained unavailable, what the killer wore

00:12:59.860 and what the killer used, Steve feared the building case against Kohlberger would remain more open than

00:13:06.320 shut. Even more troubling, if true, was what Steve had learned from people who had spoken to members of

00:13:11.560 the grand jury who had been presented with the prosecution's case. It's centered on the alleged

00:13:16.780 behavior of the two roommates who had miraculously survived the night unscathed. We made a reference

00:13:22.720 to it earlier. How, he wondered, could they have been so blissfully unaware, sleeping? Through the savage

00:13:29.900 pre-dawn stabbing murders of four people in a narrow house with paper-thin walls. Steve had been told that

00:13:37.440 the two survivors allegedly had not only been awake while the killings had taken place, but that they

00:13:44.060 had heard everything. More astonishingly, his grand jury sources alleged that the two girls had been

00:13:51.640 texting one another as the murderer methodically went from one room to the next. Of course, if that's true,

00:13:59.220 police will have seen the records. All of those texts will have been recorded. The possibility that two

00:14:06.400 people had a sense of the horror while it occurred and had not acted, calling neither friends nor 9-1-1

00:14:11.700 left Steve floored. Again, this is according to Bloom. And no less confounding, they had, if his sources

00:14:19.280 were as knowledgeable as he believed, then let hour after hour tick away before they finally decided to

00:14:24.880 summon friends. It added an entirely new band of mystery to a crime that was already bound by so many

00:14:32.140 unanswered questions. Wracked by frustration and despair, all Steve could do was send a disheartened

00:14:38.840 text to one of his fellow internet detectives, quote, there is so much more to this story than is in the

00:14:44.420 media. The time gap between when at least one roommate heard and possibly saw the intruder and when 9-1-1

00:14:52.760 was called remains one of the strangest things about this case. Why neither Dylan nor Bethany, who was also home

00:15:01.500 that night, called 9-1-1 until more than seven hours after the murders remains unclear. In the end, while we do not

00:15:08.980 know precisely who made the 9-1-1 call, we know it was not ultimately one of those roommates who called the police

00:15:15.080 at all. It was a friend calling from Dylan Mortensen's phone. Murders around 4 a.m. and no phone call until

00:15:22.800 almost noon. Sure, it was a weekend. College kids, they sleep late and tend to sleep soundly. But we have to go

00:15:31.180 back to the affidavit, where we learned that while roommate Bethany Funk was sleeping through the entire

00:15:36.240 ordeal, at least according to what she told police, Dylan Mortensen was awake. A reminder, here's what we

00:15:43.500 learned. And the initials DM are for Dylan Mortensen. DM stated, this is from the police affidavit, she originally

00:15:50.180 went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor. DM stated she was awoken at approximately

00:15:55.840 4 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Gonsalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were

00:16:03.280 located on the third floor. A short time later, DM said she heard who she thought was Gonsalves say something to the

00:16:10.080 effect of, there's someone here. A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Zanna

00:16:17.360 Kronodal's phone show this could also have been Kronodal, as her cellular phone indicated she was

00:16:24.380 likely awake and using TikTok at approximately 4.12 a.m. DM stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not

00:16:33.300 see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. DM stated she opened her door

00:16:39.620 for a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kronodal's room. DM then said

00:16:46.100 she heard a male voice say something to the effect of, it's okay, I'm going to help you. At approximately

00:16:53.440 4.17 a.m., a security camera located at 1112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest

00:17:01.000 of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a

00:17:08.640 loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4.17 a.m. The security camera is

00:17:16.940 less than 50 feet from the west wall of Kronodal's bedroom. DM stated she opened her door for the third

00:17:23.180 time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the

00:17:30.100 person's mouth and nose walking toward her. DM described the figure as 5'10 or taller, male, not

00:17:36.140 very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past DM as she stood in a

00:17:43.840 quote, frozen shock phase, end quote. The male walked toward the backsliding glass door. DM locked herself in

00:17:52.000 her room after seeing the male. DM did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators

00:17:57.920 to believe that the murderer left the scene. So, a frozen shock phase. That appears to be the phrase

00:18:05.520 given by Dylan to police as outlined in that affidavit. But what else do we know? First, very early on,

00:18:11.780 questions about Dylan's actions that night became a public conversation, even among those closest to

00:18:16.560 the victims. Initially, the attorney representing the Gonsalves family, Shannon Gray, defended Dylan's

00:18:23.080 action saying that Dylan must have been scared to death and was still a victim in this case when he

00:18:28.880 called into Fox News in January. No, no 911 calls. I mean, that raises a great many issues. How are you

00:18:38.440 kind of sorting that together? Well, you remember, she's a victim in this case. She is. Everybody kind

00:18:46.180 of forgets that, you know, she is still a victim in this case. And the fact that she was able to give

00:18:51.640 some additional identification, I think, is beneficial to the case. She was able to, you know,

00:18:56.620 give kind of height and build and what they looked like a little bit, bushy eyebrows, things along those

00:19:03.220 lines. And in regards to going back into her room and she was scared. She was scared to death, and rightly so.

00:19:10.100 But according to the Daily Mail, Ethan Chapin's sister-in-law posted on Reddit that D, which we understand

00:19:20.700 to mean Dylan Mortensen, quote, supposedly called all the girls in the house after crying and screaming

00:19:27.360 stopped and no one answered. And she still didn't call the police. She goes on, quote, she needs to explain

00:19:36.380 herself and her actions that night. We don't have anything more from the sister-in-law on that,

00:19:44.620 but you can bet if she knows something along these lines, she may be a witness.

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00:20:39.940 The reason Dylan and Bethany did not call 911 remains a mystery to this day,

00:20:44.560 one of the biggest of the case. Perhaps it is what Dylan told police the next day,

00:20:49.500 that she was just paralyzed with fear. For seven hours? Multiple reports suggest

00:20:56.360 that we expect a trial. We will hear from both roommates in their own words, as both women

00:21:02.240 would likely testify. How helpful their testimony will be for the prosecution or the defense

00:21:07.800 remains to be seen. Kohlberger's defense team tried to subpoena roommate Bethany Funk in April

00:21:13.800 to testify at Kohlberger's scheduled preliminary hearing. After fighting this subpoena,

00:21:19.140 she eventually agreed to be interviewed at home in Nevada. The Kohlberger defense initially alleged

00:21:25.360 that Bethany Funk had information that is, quote, exculpatory to the defendant,

00:21:31.000 meaning potentially supportive of his innocence. We don't know why they might believe that or whether

00:21:36.840 they really do. But what we do know is that if either roommate talks at trial, we will see it.

00:21:42.760 Cameras will be there. The televised nature of this trial is something I discussed with former

00:21:48.000 prosecutor Marsha Clark earlier this year. She brought her OJ Simpson trial experience into her 0.93

00:21:53.860 answer. The downsides are huge. You know, the problem that you face, of course, is that it turns

00:22:01.140 into a circus. Now, in fairness, if you have a judge who knows how to keep the guardrails on,

00:22:06.680 it can be fine. But if he doesn't and he just lets the cameras, you know, be turned on 24-7,

00:22:13.120 it's a nightmare. And you wind up having people come forward who just want the limelight and really

00:22:17.460 have nothing to say. Or you have people that are afraid of the limelight and have something to say

00:22:22.040 and don't want to come forward. You have lawyers who are, you know, stumping for camera time and

00:22:27.060 FaceTime and, you know, and extending things interminably with no real argument to make because they want to

00:22:33.960 be famous. You have prosecutors who probably do the same thing in some instances. And, you know,

00:22:39.680 you have a judge who sits down for a six-part interview with the news anchor to talk about his life

00:22:45.280 in his past. So I don't know where I pulled that one from. So I do. So, I mean, it causes these kinds of

00:22:53.100 distortions and it does cause a circus. So, you know, I understand the problem. Fred Goldman said,

00:22:59.240 and he changed my mind. But the world would never know what the evidence really was. The world would

00:23:06.240 never know and bother to read the newspapers after the fact about all of the evidence that we were

00:23:10.700 able to produce. A huge, overwhelming amount of evidence of guilt. He was right. You know, if you

00:23:16.480 have the people moving around in the courtroom, people pay attention in a different way. So, you know,

00:23:22.080 I've come down on the side of having a certain kind of thing where you allow the cameras in the

00:23:27.140 courtroom when the jury is in the courtroom. So that what is disseminated to the public is what

00:23:31.540 the jury sees. But when the jury is not there and you're having hearings about the evidence that

00:23:36.520 should and should not come in, et cetera, that kind of thing, then you should not have cameras in the

00:23:41.000 courtroom. You can have print reporters. That's fine. But having the cameras in the courtroom should

00:23:45.620 be banned when the jury's not there. And with that kind of caveat, I think it's a good thing.

00:23:52.080 In the one year since the murders, Bethany and Dylan have kept a low profile.

00:23:57.140 They have not spoken publicly a single time. We know Bethany lives in Nevada while Dylan was

00:24:02.960 recently seen in social media posts partying with friends at a University of Idaho sorority

00:24:08.360 and at Halloween parties. Now we turn to unanswered question number two. How likely is it that Brian

00:24:16.980 Kohlberger acted alone if he is indeed the perpetrator? Is it possible he had an accomplice or

00:24:23.800 more than one accomplice? Much of this speculation stems from the fact that Kohlberger is someone

00:24:28.940 with no known criminal history. And yet in what appears to be his first serious crime ever,

00:24:36.160 he brutally stabs four individuals to death, killing them without detection and commits this

00:24:41.120 heinous act in less than 15 minutes. Initially, one of the storylines that led some to believe there

00:24:46.820 might be another person involved was when Kohlberger's defense team filed a motion early on in the case,

00:24:51.680 requesting, among other things, information about a potential, quote, co-defendant in the case.

00:24:57.700 This seemed to connect to an early question from Kohlberger himself to police in Pennsylvania when

00:25:03.040 he reportedly asked them after he'd been arrested if they had arrested anyone else.

00:25:08.460 We quickly learned, however, that there was no co-defendant and the prosecution was and appears to be

00:25:14.540 working under the assumption that Kohlberger acted alone. And now we look to unanswered question

00:25:20.520 number three. And it's really the big one. Why? What possibly could be the motive for this brutal

00:25:27.840 and horrifying act? And along those same lines, does any evidence point to any of the four victims

00:25:35.160 as being the specific target of the murderer here? On that question, here's what we know.

00:25:41.100 First, we know, based on reporting from NewsNation, that Kaylee Gonsalves, that her injuries were

00:25:47.460 considered, quote, significantly more brutal than those of her roommate and best friend, Maddie Mogan.

00:25:55.420 We have just confirmed. NewsNation is learning that Kaylee Gonsalves' injuries were significantly

00:26:03.500 more brutal than her best friend Maddie's injuries, which may end up being a very, very important piece

00:26:10.520 of evidence when it comes to determining who the target was in this attack.

00:26:16.960 Does that indicate a particular focus by the killer on Kaylee? But then again, those murders occurred

00:26:23.320 in Maddie's room, not Kaylee's. In fact, Kaylee had recently moved out. She was only visiting her best

00:26:30.900 friend the night of the murders. So if Kaylee was the main target, how could the killer have known

00:26:37.480 that she was even in the house, never mind exactly where? In September, Kaylee's family told CBS

00:26:44.240 further details about what they have been told by authorities. Kaylee's mom said it appeared Maddie

00:26:51.580 was killed first, and that perhaps Kaylee was awakened by that attack and tried to escape.

00:26:57.640 The bed was up against the wall. The headboard was touching the wall, and the left side of the bed

00:27:04.780 was touching the wall. And we believed that Maddie was on the outside and Kaylee was on the inside.

00:27:11.100 According to Coroner Mabbitt, the killer's first victim was Maddie, says Steve.

00:27:16.600 And then from Maddie, he moved on to your daughter. You believe she had awakened at that point?

00:27:24.040 Yes.

00:27:24.380 Yeah, there's evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation.

00:27:29.400 The way the bed was set up is what...

00:27:32.020 She was trapped.

00:27:32.820 She was trapped.

00:27:35.260 There are reports of defensive wounds found on Kaylee's body, on Zana Kurnodal's too, reportedly.

00:27:42.200 No such reports about Ethan or Maddie. But what does any of that mean for motive or targeting?

00:27:49.040 Kaylee's parents told CBS News they believe an Instagram account belonging to Brian Kohlberger

00:27:55.040 was following Kaylee and Maddie.

00:27:59.680 They believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram and immediately took these

00:28:06.400 screenshots.

00:28:07.920 From our investigation of the account, it appeared to be the real Brian Kohlberger account.

00:28:12.480 Among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves, in addition

00:28:20.180 to several people with the name Kohlberger.

00:28:25.200 However, that has not been corroborated and others have disputed it. In court, they'll have

00:28:30.120 to prove it. But whether there was a connection or not still does not explain motive. If it was

00:28:37.480 Kohlberger, why did he do it? As we told you in episode three, Kohlberger was a criminology

00:28:44.220 student. His past several years had been spent studying crimes in detail. While at DeSales getting

00:28:50.900 his master's degree, he posted a questionnaire to Reddit, which we went over. In retrospect,

00:28:55.820 it appears ominous.

00:28:57.640 Hello, my name is Brian, and I'm inviting you to participate in a research project that seeks

00:29:02.800 to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing

00:29:07.960 a crime. In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent

00:29:14.260 criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience.

00:29:20.260 To the average citizen, these questions may sound bizarre, but experts say it is not unusual

00:29:25.780 for criminologists to want to better understand the criminals they study.

00:29:30.700 Or maybe it's just the reason many criminals commit a murder. Maybe that's what was at issue

00:29:38.420 here. Psychosis, rage, jealousy, untreated mental illness, or evil.

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00:30:44.980 and get three months free. Offer details apply. As Howard Bloom writes at the end of one of his

00:30:54.340 many excellent pieces on this case, maybe it was a matter of deep-seated envy and resentment from a

00:31:00.980 man whose life had been plagued with anger, disconnection, and an inability to feel human.

00:31:07.420 As Bloom writes, he yearned for the fun he saw at that house. Can you imagine looking at that wild

00:31:14.100 night all the happy frivolity from some hideout in the shadows, and at the same time knowing deep in

00:31:20.320 your dark heart that you would never be a part of anything that exuberant, that beautiful? It would

00:31:26.780 be hell. A hell of unsatisfied desire that could plunge someone deeper and deeper into a tormenting

00:31:33.000 rage. An envy that would be an all-consuming sickness. And in the end, there would be no way out.

00:31:38.860 Just the deed. There are other questions that remain in this case, like where the murder weapon

00:31:46.640 is as we've gone over, and the clothes he must have worn. So far, we believe the police may not have

00:31:53.860 any of that evidence. Perhaps they were dumped along the oddly circuitous wooded drive Kohlberger

00:32:01.640 allegedly took from the murders back home to WSU. As we look back on this case and this week,

00:32:10.060 I want to leave you with some final thoughts from past guests who have been on this show about this

00:32:15.340 case, this suspect, and what is to come. Couldn't imagine him not leaving DNA behind because it's such

00:32:23.800 a violent crime scene. He stabbed four people multiple times. And the chances of either the

00:32:31.320 knife not slipping and cutting him, or one of those victims fighting back and potentially getting his

00:32:36.340 DNA under their fingernails, or just dropping a single hair seems highly unlikely to me.

00:32:42.520 The sheath, if I'm the defense lawyer, does not bother me because somebody, you can have an

00:32:48.320 explanation for that. There's an innocent explanation for that if it's on the button. Somebody else

00:32:53.620 had the knife, obviously, some other person. The bushy eyebrows, that doesn't bother me. If,

00:33:00.360 in fact, as you posit, that there is victim's DNA in his apartment, that's a real problem. I don't

00:33:08.820 know that it's game over, but that's a real, real problem. When people hear DNA nowadays, they do get

00:33:14.980 that. Largely, it goes right. And largely, it doesn't tag somebody else. It doesn't tag the wrong

00:33:22.460 person. And I'm sure they're going to be very careful in handling the samples, I would imagine,

00:33:27.380 knowing that that's going to probably be the most significant evidence that they get,

00:33:31.900 the kind you're talking about. The defendant's DNA all over the room, the victim's DNA in his room,

00:33:38.160 that sort of thing, that kind of combination is, I think it's a knockout punch if that's what they

00:33:42.940 come up. When those handcuffs went on, him, essentially, if he's the guy, his life is over.

00:33:52.860 Life as he knew it is gone. Your level of confidence on a scale of one to 10,

00:33:59.520 that they've got the right guy and he'll be convicted. Let's go down the line. Phil?

00:34:04.020 10. 10 plus. Wow. Bill? 10. Mike? 10 plus plus plus.

00:34:15.780 And now my final thoughts. I believe Brian Kohlberger committed this crime. A life of

00:34:21.840 darkness, deep unhappiness, and of being mentally unwell likely all contributed to a sick fascination

00:34:27.720 with death and what he may have seen as the power that comes from taking a life. The phone,

00:34:33.100 car, and touch DNA evidence may be enough, particularly when coupled with the fact that

00:34:37.860 back home in Pennsylvania, Brian Kohlberger was disposing of his trash in the neighbor's garbage

00:34:44.380 cans. And when police effected the arrest raid, they allegedly caught him wearing gloves,

00:34:50.740 stuffing his own garbage into little Ziploc baggies. Who does that? But this is not an easy case

00:34:57.400 for prosecutors, notwithstanding those facts. The killer was careful. No murder weapon,

00:35:03.820 no bloody clothes. There are some indications that no additional DNA has been found to link

00:35:09.840 Kohlberger to the crime scene, nor any link from the victims to anything found in Kohlberger's

00:35:16.800 apartment. The eyewitness here, the roommate, has only an amorphous description. The killer's medium 0.98

00:35:23.220 build and his bushy eyebrows, which will not be enough to qualify as a definitive ID. The car and

00:35:29.520 phone evidence will be mercilessly attacked and picked apart at trial, as will the one minuscule spot

00:35:36.760 of touch DNA on the knife sheath. The jury may wind up confused. That's a defense attorney's goal.

00:35:43.320 In short, the prosecution likely needs more. Maybe they have it. They have held their cards very close

00:35:49.660 to the vest in this case, and certainly the defense would not be leaking the most incriminating evidence

00:35:54.480 against their client Kohlberger. In death penalty cases like this, however, jurors sometimes like to

00:36:01.440 have zero doubts, even though the legal standard, of course, is beyond a reasonable doubt. Does the

00:36:08.100 prosecution have enough to meet this burden? It's not yet clear. For now, we must hope that the DA

00:36:15.340 has more than the office has made public, in particular on the DNA front. And as we wait,

00:36:23.060 we keep the victim's families in our prayers. Kaylee, Maddie, Ethan, and Zanna.

00:36:30.580 Thank you all so much for joining me today and all week. Again, would love to hear your thoughts.

00:36:35.880 Email me, megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com with your thoughts on the case or the special.

00:36:41.400 In the meantime, my family and I will be enjoying Christmas week on vacation, and I hope you're

00:36:48.080 doing the same. It's been a busy but rewarding 2023. Thanks to all of you. My team and I are so

00:36:55.660 grateful for your support of this show, you downloading it, you spreading the good word,

00:37:00.240 and we can't wait to spend 2024 together. It's going to be a huge and important year. All the best to you

00:37:07.700 and yours this holiday season. Merry Christmas and have a great weekend.

00:37:16.020 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 22, 2023

Unanswered Questions： Idaho College Murders and Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly Show Special - Part Five ｜ Ep. 692

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