The Megyn Kelly Show - VA Gov Race Ramifications and Texas Abortion Case Before SCOTUS, with Rich Lowry and Alan Dershowitz ｜ Ep. 193

00:00:00.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.860 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We've got a jam-packed show 0.60

00:00:15.780 for you today. Right now, the justices at the U.S. Supreme Court are hearing arguments on the

00:00:20.580 controversial Texas abortion law, how the court rules could shape legal battles for years to come

00:00:26.500 on this issue. Alan Dershowitz is here to analyze that, plus the new lawsuits piling up against

00:00:32.060 President Biden's vaccine mandate, the forcible touching charge against now former New York State

00:00:38.220 Governor Andrew Cuomo, and whether Alan thinks Alec Baldwin will be held criminally responsible for

00:00:45.720 the Rust movie shooting. Alan's actually been involved in these kinds of cases before. He was

00:00:50.400 involved in that Brandon Lee shooting years ago, in that case, I should say, and has got some thoughts

00:00:55.740 on all of that as Alec Baldwin finally takes to the microphones and speaks out on it. But we're

00:01:00.240 going to begin today with Rich Lowry, the editor of National Review, who joins me to discuss the

00:01:04.660 Biden administration possibly paying millions of dollars to families who illegally crossed our

00:01:10.500 southern border, protesters shouting down a bride because Senator Kyrsten Sinema was at her wedding.

00:01:16.600 It's so rude. And the new polls ahead of Election Day tomorrow, tomorrow now in Virginia and elsewhere,

00:01:23.100 but allies around the Commonwealth, the VA, that have Democrats very worried. So we're going to start

00:01:28.980 there. Welcome, Rich. Good to have you. Hey, thanks for having me.

00:01:32.360 Okay, so the latest polls on the Virginia race, which I know you guys have been watching carefully,

00:01:37.240 the Fox News outlier, I think it's fair to say, had him up, Youngkin, the Republican, up 0.8,

00:01:44.300 up 0.8 percentage points. That's outside the polls margin of error, however, and people should

00:01:49.680 know, I've heard you say this, too. But I know these guys all on the Fox News polling unit very

00:01:53.040 well, work with them for years. These are legit nonpartisan pollsters. This isn't like,

00:01:57.300 you know, Hannity's polling unit. This is like a very good, very well-respected polling unit.

00:02:04.320 And they they've got him up, the Republican, up eight. Washington Post, which was done a week earlier,

00:02:10.060 had McAuliffe up by one. But one month earlier, had McAuliffe up by five. In August, McAuliffe was up

00:02:17.580 6.6. And most of these polls up five, six, seven, eight. So it's been a big swing. And virtually all

00:02:24.920 these polls show the same thing, which is education has made all the difference. So you tell me whether

00:02:31.480 the DOJ's little stunt backfired, among other things.

00:02:37.680 Oh, definitely backfired. So the Fox poll is interesting. I think prior to this one,

00:02:42.000 they had McAuliffe up seven, which was an outlier the other way. Now they have

00:02:45.020 Youngkin up eight, which is an outlier pro. Youngkin, my guess is, well, the Youngkin internal

00:02:51.580 polling has him up three or four. And I wouldn't be surprised if Youngkin wins by about three

00:02:55.480 tomorrow night. And what crystallized things for him, he spent months and months just laying the

00:03:01.140 groundwork to play defense on the idea that he's a new Trump, that he's some sort of hateful figure,

00:03:06.560 a white nationalist, just with these bio ads. But if you've been around politics, you look at one of

00:03:11.440 these things, you kind of roll your eyes, right? He's like, you know, my dad got fired, which is

00:03:15.560 terrible. Then I worked as a teenager, you know, cracking eggs at a diner. And then I practiced

00:03:20.300 basketball, got a scholarship, built a business, raised four kids. And I'm nothing like a politician,

00:03:24.500 you know, when this is obviously the best work of the political consultants he hired. But it defined

00:03:30.700 him as kind of a suburban dad, this kind of unthreatening figure. So when they come in at the end

00:03:35.160 here and say he's Trump, he's white nationalists, have guys holding tiki torches outside his campaign

00:03:40.460 bus in Charlottesville on a white nationalist reference. Just none of that works. And he's

00:03:45.020 hit education since the beginning of the campaign. But two things have really supercharged that issue

00:03:49.920 for him. One, McAuliffe's gap. I'm not sure it was real gaps, what he believes, that parents

00:03:55.820 shouldn't have, shouldn't determine what is taught in schools. McAuliffe doubled down on this for a

00:04:01.740 while until they realized it was a desperate mistake. Now he's playing defense on it. And as you

00:04:05.500 mentioned this, this Merrick Garland memo, which is completely indefensible, the school board

00:04:10.680 association, National School Board Association that kicked it off with a letter has apologized

00:04:15.360 and retracted the letter incredibly enough. But this has just made parental involvement,

00:04:21.720 the legitimacy of parents protesting, all that made it a live political issue. And Youngkin's

00:04:27.100 taken advantage of it.

00:04:28.900 Merrick Garland has not backed down notably, even though the school board association withdrew the

00:04:32.860 letter and apologized. Merrick Garland stands by his intention to investigate and potentially

00:04:38.120 prosecute threats, threats, violence and threats of violence, violence and threats of violence,

00:04:43.000 of which there have been basically none, none. I mean, if you look at the addendum, and I know you

00:04:47.960 guys took a close look at it, so did we on that school board association letter. We went through it

00:04:51.900 in great detail on Friday for people who want to hear it. But there are no threats or violence or

00:04:55.600 violence that were brought to the DOJ's attention. The only thing they had was that one case in

00:05:00.380 Virginia with Scott Smith, the dad upset that his daughter had been raped. He's the only one facing

00:05:04.800 criminal prosecution, which he should not be. So we'll see. But clearly what we're talking about

00:05:09.820 now is voter backlash. And just to put a point on it, the OK, parents backed McAuliffe by 10 points

00:05:18.960 two weeks ago, according to the Fox News poll. So parents were behind Terry McAuliffe by 10 points

00:05:24.460 two weeks ago when it came to education. Now they're going for Youngkin by 14, a 24 point swing.

00:05:33.000 I mean, very clearly something big is happening in Virginia when it comes to education. And this is

00:05:38.660 not a bright blue state. It's no longer red. But that's this is one of the reasons why I know you've

00:05:45.880 been saying this would be huge. It would point to a viable path ahead for the Republican Party in swing

00:05:52.960 states like Virginia if Youngkin manages to pull this off. Yeah. So what Youngkin has done, he's

00:05:58.760 shown there's a there's a model where you can win the Trump base. And Youngkin, you know, he's he's a

00:06:05.300 he's a smart guy. He ran a really serious business CEO of the Carlisle Group. So he's been deft about

00:06:10.840 this. He's kind of played along with some of Trump stuff, said, you know, Trump Trump Trump is

00:06:16.560 Trump's the reason he's running in some respects. So he's kept the Trump voters. At the same time,

00:06:22.880 he's kept some distance from Trump himself. He hasn't had Trump in to campaign for him. He

00:06:27.940 hasn't doesn't talk about God of his way to talk about Trump on the campaign trail. And as I said,

00:06:33.760 he's defined himself kind of as a nice suburban police wearing suburban dad. So you can you need

00:06:39.620 both in a state like Virginia. You're not going to win with if the Trump voters hate you. They don't

00:06:43.800 hate Youngkin. They're supporting him. But you're not going to win if you're a 2020 obsessive

00:06:48.720 MAGA hat wearing true blue Trumpist because you're not going to win the suburbs. And he's not

00:06:55.180 that. So he's made huge gains in the suburbs. And you don't need to win Loudoun County. Loudoun

00:07:00.200 County, astonishingly enough, is ground zero for this education fight. Biden won Loudoun County by

00:07:05.000 62 with 62 percent of the vote. This is an outer suburb. This isn't like an inner suburb that's been

00:07:10.860 a blue forever. So he is talking about winning Loudoun County, which would speak to kind of landslide for

00:07:18.160 him, I think. But if you just take the edge off Loudoun County and other places, that should be

00:07:22.900 enough to get him over the top. Now, deep red states, this is not what you're going to do,

00:07:27.640 right? You're never going to get through a primary unless you're you're a real Trump fan.

00:07:31.380 But in swing states, it shows that this is possible. And for me, it's just it's an obvious

00:07:36.700 common sense path just that just requires a little deafness and a little acuity as a campaigner.

00:07:43.620 Youngkin's had that. Mm hmm. So what's been really interesting because of the dynamic you're

00:07:48.020 just outlining is that, yeah, Youngkin has not been mentioning Trump. Trump now is going to have

00:07:52.200 a tele. I really want to say tele-tubby. It's not right. He wants to have a tele-rally,

00:07:58.100 tele-town hall for Youngkin. And Youngkin's not going to participate. Again, smart political moves,

00:08:04.140 irrespective of his feelings about Trump one way or the other. We don't really care. He's just

00:08:07.860 politically trying to keep that arm between the two of them. But but McAuliffe, I mean,

00:08:12.920 so somebody put together a mashup of McAuliffe talking about, well, it seems like he's talking

00:08:20.720 about Trump, but he's trying to attack Youngkin. Listen to this.

00:08:24.880 Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump.

00:08:43.000 Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump. He keeps invoking

00:08:48.080 Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Trump, Donald Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump.

00:08:56.580 Have you made this race too much about Trump?

00:09:00.380 No.

00:09:02.280 So that was from the young camp, I guess.

00:09:04.900 Pretty effective.

00:09:07.100 Yeah.

00:09:07.480 So and I would almost date you can almost hear in McCall's voice when he knows he's losing that kind of horser version of the Donald Trump.

00:09:14.340 That's McCall.

00:09:15.320 Who knows he's losing.

00:09:16.720 And Terry McAuliffe, you wouldn't know it over the last two months or so ago or so, is an incredibly irrepressible personality.

00:09:25.480 Everyone likes being around him.

00:09:26.740 There's a reason Bill Clinton spent hours and hours playing cards with Terry McAuliffe.

00:09:30.880 He's a hugely entertaining guy.

00:09:32.540 But you can just tell, even if you weren't looking at any polls, he sounds exhausted.

00:09:37.060 He sounds desperate.

00:09:38.720 And he sounds angry.

00:09:40.580 And this thing from over the weekend where all of a sudden you're saying, no, this race isn't about Trump.

00:09:44.520 I don't think I've taught that much about Trump.

00:09:46.160 And he's kicking away what has been his main line of attack against Youngkin for months, clearly because they know it's not working.

00:09:54.600 And they're just desperate to have a guy on the ballot who's just not.

00:09:58.500 And, you know, maybe he will be in 2024, but Trump's not on the ballot in Virginia.

00:10:02.620 He's not going to be on the ballot anywhere in 2022 either.

00:10:04.900 Well, and Youngkin's, you know, whole approach to this, just sort of like maybe I'm a little avuncular, maybe I'm a little boring, I'm a little milquetoast, is working, which is why I know you wrote fear the fleece.

00:10:16.580 You do need to fear the fleece, his little fleece sweater vest that he's been wearing that, you know, Obama came out after and McCullough came in, like, you know, to try to paint him as some sort of crazy extremist white supremacist in a fleece vest.

00:10:30.380 There's zero evidence for this.

00:10:32.020 Biden came out and said that.

00:10:33.420 And it's not it's not working, but they do need to fear the fleece a little because it's sort of that softer, gentler, more more Commonwealth of Virginia, like gentlemanly approach that's working.

00:10:46.540 Yeah. And it's it's not to your point is kind of a Commonwealth of Virginia sort of style.

00:10:52.760 This is the model that give or take is always work for Republicans in state level races.

00:10:56.660 Going back to George Allen, what is, you know, basically a red state, but George Allen, Bob McDonald, Jim Gilmore, they all made themselves acceptable to the center and then ran on kind of practical cost of living type issues.

00:11:10.760 And Youngkin has done that with a greater emphasis on education, as we talked about.

00:11:14.820 And what he's managed to do is, one, avoiding seeming like Donald Trump and two, avoiding seeming like Mitt Romney, because this would be the other line of attack on him.

00:11:23.640 He's a vulture capitalist. He's a just a soulless business guy.

00:11:27.860 And he has a profile that, you know, if you just read the bio, is very similar to Mitt Romney, but he's made himself softer.

00:11:34.900 He's defined himself not as, you know, a jobs creator and a businessman, an entrepreneur, but instead as a suburban dad.

00:11:41.140 And that's just been just right for this race, just right for the state. 1.00

00:11:45.020 Especially because it's really parents rights that are now going to join this.

00:11:47.840 And I know it's so crazy, Rich, to be talking about a race this tight where education seems to be what's going to turn it for the Republican, for the Republican.

00:11:56.640 I mean, I would say as a parent who's been very outspoken on the lunacy being unfolded in our schools from the mask and vaccine mandates to the critical race theory to the trans stuff. 0.86

00:12:06.340 I'm so delighted to see parents standing up and actually having an impact.

00:12:11.440 You know, it's not so much about Youngkin for me.

00:12:13.060 It's that parents in a purple state have had enough and are trying night and day in the context of this race to draw a line on how far they will let crazy far left agendas permeate their schools.

00:12:27.600 Yeah. And with Youngkin, he's talked about it from the beginning, and it hasn't just been critical race theory.

00:12:33.440 He's obviously hit that hard, justifiably so.

00:12:35.760 But it's been excellence and standards.

00:12:38.580 There's a school down there called Thomas Jefferson High School, which has been a big focus because there's been an effort to undermine the merit-based admissions there because it supposedly has the wrong, quote-unquote, composition of the student body because it's heavily Asian-American.

00:12:53.480 He's hit that from the beginning. He's hit school safety. He's hit this kind of explicit content that parents are worried about and obviously hit CRT.

00:13:01.800 But if you talk to the Youngkin people, what they will say is it used to be all this was kind of too disparate, you know, and you have a bunch of people in the room, and only some of them would be into the academic standards, and some of them would be into the safety, and some of them would be into the CRT.

00:13:13.440 But McAuliffe really helped them tie a bow around it and the legitimacy, the question of the legitimacy of parent involvement, parent protest.

00:13:24.000 And when we say that, they say everyone in the room applauds, whereas, you know, maybe only a quarter of the room is into the, you know, defending Thomas Jefferson University and high school and the standards, but they all support parental involvement.

00:13:36.600 And just getting on the wrong side of parents, that's a cardinal rule of American politics.

00:13:41.120 Whatever the issue is, don't do it. And Terry McAuliffe has.

00:13:45.360 Yeah, and they're doing it at the state level and at the federal level, as we discussed.

00:13:49.440 So, meantime, the Lincoln Project guys, always on admission to double down on their just terrible behavior from their previous attack ads or complaints or whatever it is.

00:14:02.200 What is this group still out there for? I mean, I don't understand how the Lincoln Project even still has a platform with its, you know, support of this pedophile who they covered up for and this attack of a woman who tried to go public with them and Steve Schmidt admitting what he did with this woman.

00:14:16.240 I mean, like the number of attacks on this pedophile supporting organization should have really rendered them irrelevant long ago.

00:14:22.880 And yet Democrats seem to love so much all their attacks on Trump and any Trump supporter and Ivanka Trump still and Jared.

00:14:30.100 It's like, OK, move on. They can't. And so I was surprised.

00:14:34.580 And Stuart Stevens is part of the Lincoln Project. And I used to say I used to have him on the Cali file all the time before he went like crazy.

00:14:41.020 I mean, he's just gone so hard into Trump derangement syndrome.

00:14:44.540 You can't listen to the guy anymore, like all those guys at the Lincoln Project.

00:14:47.200 And they staged this. I don't know. It was like a fake rally.

00:14:54.120 It was like a fake little rally trying to imitate the tiki torches and the white supremacists that happened in Virginia in 2017.

00:15:02.940 And they now they're like, oh, it was all, you know, it was sort of intentionally fake and we knew sort of we'd be outed.

00:15:10.900 That's not how it unfolded.

00:15:12.240 They wanted this to look like an actual Youngkin rally of white supremacists.

00:15:17.460 And only when they got caught did Stuart Stevens come out and say, OK, yeah, it was us.

00:15:22.580 And, you know, we own it and we think it's great.

00:15:24.580 But they tried to pull a fast one on Virginia voters.

00:15:28.660 Yes. First of all, the purpose of the Lincoln Project and the purpose of it was you had a bunch of Republicans that hated Trump and mainstream media loved it.

00:15:35.200 I mean, they're they're on Morning Joe all the time.

00:15:38.380 They're on CNN all the time, kind of pumping up what they were doing.

00:15:40.940 And so I sort of thought after the 2020 presidential election, they'd kind of go away.

00:15:45.620 But they they're still going.

00:15:47.420 I mean, they raised money hand over fist.

00:15:49.700 Some of it went to ill purposes, apparently.

00:15:52.480 And 2020 and they're still going is basically indistinguishable from any Democratic campaign group now.

00:15:59.480 But yet they had these four or five people, one black guy, one woman.

00:16:04.300 I mean, they weren't very plausible white nationalists.

00:16:06.500 I'm not sure they meant it to be taken seriously or not.

00:16:10.100 But the fact is, people did.

00:16:12.120 And if it was just a joke, they punked their own side because you had Democratic operatives, including McCall's staff and left-laying journalists promoting this as a real thing.

00:16:24.600 You know, Joe Lockhart, former Clinton press secretary.

00:16:27.100 How can Glenn Youngkin tolerate this?

00:16:29.720 It shows how hateful he is.

00:16:31.520 And a lot of these tweets were deleted without explanation.

00:16:34.480 But it was a thing among people who are either too cynical to, you know, take five seconds to try to understand what was going on there or too credulous.

00:16:44.640 And they promoted it.

00:16:47.440 But this this backfired massively.

00:16:51.240 The McCall campaign says they had nothing to do with it.

00:16:54.340 You know, who knows?

00:16:55.220 They jumped on it really quickly for having nothing to do with it.

00:16:57.640 But it was clearly an embarrassment.

00:16:59.740 Mm hmm.

00:17:00.300 Yes.

00:17:00.620 It's it's so, yeah, the several members of the McAuliffe team had retweeted the original item as though or real.

00:17:06.860 This is from the Wall Street Journal editorial campaign communication staffer Jen Goodman calling the Tiki Torch photo disgusting and disqualifying.

00:17:14.020 McAuliffe spokesperson Christina Fralich said this is who Glenn Youngkin supporters are.

00:17:19.580 So far, no apology for that smear.

00:17:21.820 Um, and the press, uh, as the journal goes on to say, seems content to pretend it's all an intra GOP struggle, a squabble.

00:17:30.940 The Washington Post calling the Lincoln Project an anti-Trump Republican group.

00:17:36.440 That's a joke.

00:17:37.400 I mean, even Stewart has long ago renounced his role as Republican operative and all the Republicans that he worked to get elected.

00:17:43.380 This is not a Republican group.

00:17:45.000 This is I don't even know what it is.

00:17:47.020 It's hard left Democrat now.

00:17:48.720 And they they're not only not Republican, but they've been supported by the left leaning press at every turn.

00:17:56.740 And before I get you to comment on that, I just want to give you here's a here's a this is from Grabian.

00:18:01.720 They do a great job of butting together soundbites to give you the flavor.

00:18:05.040 And this is the media and how the media feels about the Lincoln Project behind this stunt.

00:18:09.440 Not not since this stunt was pulled, but this is sort of the cozy relationship they have.

00:18:14.140 Listen, the Lincoln Project is like watching a Jay-Z Nas rap battle.

00:18:18.400 I mean, they don't let up on this president.

00:18:20.220 The Lincoln Project, founded by members of the GOP, dedicated to seeing Donald Trump defeated.

00:18:26.940 Their ads are terrific.

00:18:28.080 They're smart.

00:18:28.880 They're super fast, which is great.

00:18:31.200 They troll Donald Trump.

00:18:32.900 The Lincoln Project has just been hammering Donald Trump.

00:18:35.400 I think he's starting to feel for the first time, you know, what it likes to be losing.

00:18:39.640 Take a look at this new ad taunting Trump from the Lincoln Project.

00:18:43.500 Well, they're out with a devastating new TV ad.

00:18:46.120 Here's the Lincoln Project's latest ad.

00:18:48.440 Let's take a look at part of a new ad.

00:18:49.760 I want to play an ad.

00:18:50.760 Here is the latest ad.

00:18:52.100 And when I say new, this one's new.

00:18:54.060 They're not Republicans, nor are the media who support them.

00:18:57.740 Yeah.

00:18:58.060 And a lot of those ads, they were they just ran in the Washington, D.C.

00:19:01.840 media market as a way to troll Trump, one.

00:19:06.580 But two, make sure the journalists saw it and would talk about it.

00:19:10.680 And it got played on Twitter so they could raise more money.

00:19:13.660 But I think it was someone, one of these former Obama guys, Dan Pfeiffer, pointed this out at

00:19:17.780 some point.

00:19:18.400 This is not helping winning an election.

00:19:21.080 You know, you're not running any of this stuff in battleground states.

00:19:23.640 And that kind of shamed them into at least making the show of running some of these ads

00:19:27.860 elsewhere.

00:19:28.620 But this is always a Twitter and cable TV phenomenon.

00:19:32.120 They're not Republicans anymore.

00:19:33.340 And just the test of that, if you're supporting Terry McAuliffe over Glenn Young, who is not

00:19:38.580 Donald Trump in any single way, you're just you're not a Republican anymore.

00:19:43.040 Full stop.

00:19:44.300 And most of the leadership has come out and said that themselves.

00:19:47.740 It's just the media now that insists on still branding them as Republicans as though this

00:19:51.200 is an inter-party squabble.

00:19:53.040 And it's anything but.

00:19:54.200 I mean, look at the numbers, as I say, 24 point swing on the issue of education.

00:19:58.260 That is not something that that's not some Republican interest squabble over.

00:20:02.680 This is like actual politics playing out in the polls and the Lincoln Project desperate

00:20:07.540 for relevance after its pedophilia scandal, still pushing out ads, trying to act like there's

00:20:11.880 some impartial arbiter.

00:20:13.440 All right.

00:20:13.560 We've got much more with Rich Laverty Go.

00:20:15.060 The Let's Go Brandon media cycle to hear about this thing on Southwest.

00:20:18.900 Did it actually happen with this pilot?

00:20:21.000 The media's reaction to it and how protesters going after not just Senator Sinema, but a

00:20:26.100 wedding she's attending, the bride and mother of the bride, most unhappy. 0.70

00:20:30.220 And then the big, big payouts our government's considering making to the families of children

00:20:35.500 who entered this country unlawfully with their parents approval.

00:20:39.520 And now we're getting ready to pay millions of dollars to them.

00:20:41.980 Stand by for that.

00:20:45.060 So, Rich, there's been a bit of a dust up on the Let's Go Brandon front, which is now

00:20:54.060 sort of a euphemism for FU Biden based on this race car.

00:20:58.780 It was a NASCAR event where the NBC reporter hearing all the crowd chant FU in the actual

00:21:05.680 explicit terms, Biden said to the race car driver, Brandon, somebody, oh, they're chanting.

00:21:11.180 Let's go.

00:21:13.580 Let's go, Brandon.

00:21:14.680 Anyway.

00:21:15.220 Yeah, they weren't.

00:21:16.520 So now it's become a thing.

00:21:17.520 And according to one, as far as I can tell, it's only one AP reporter named Colleen Long who's

00:21:22.580 reporting this.

00:21:23.600 So we haven't actually confirmed whether this happened, an important note to this story.

00:21:27.360 But she says she's that there was a Southwest Airlines pilot who allegedly said over the

00:21:33.740 mic to everybody on the plane, let's go, Brandon.

00:21:37.280 Um, so he, he said it and that it was explicit and now people are losing their minds.

00:21:44.520 Um, there's one person, for example, Matt Taibbi has a great post at his sub stack, which

00:21:49.140 everybody should subscribe to, um, pointing out how, for example, Juliette Kayyem, she's 1.00

00:21:53.840 a former Homeland security official at CNN and now at CNN and says, if Southwest air doesn't

00:21:59.000 do anything, every passenger on that flight has standing to file a complaint with the FAA

00:22:03.640 and they should do so Southwest will then be compelled to investigate or defend him.

00:22:08.020 Have fun with that.

00:22:09.080 No messing around in the air, bright line rule.

00:22:12.200 And then he goes on to point out, this is kind of funny to relive.

00:22:15.560 You remember the number of reporters and civilians in, in front of microphones who said the nastiest

00:22:22.180 things about Trump, right?

00:22:23.660 Don't remember Juliette Kayyem's outrage or anyone else's.

00:22:26.800 I mean, the, the, so Robert De Niro, Taibbi points out, drops the F bomb at the Tony

00:22:31.660 Awards, um, him and he really went after Trump.

00:22:35.020 He said F Trump and they loved it.

00:22:37.500 USA Today celebrated the moment.

00:22:40.040 Uh, Vox De Niro told the Tony's audience F Trump.

00:22:43.820 He got a standing ovation points out when Samantha Bee went on TBS and called Ivanka Trump a

00:22:48.500 feckless C word. 0.99

00:22:49.920 Oh, she said it, the actual word.

00:22:52.100 She was forced to apologize, but the immune immediately saw a New Yorker column, um, saying

00:22:58.140 she should not have apologized.

00:22:59.220 Sally Field, the actress said she was wrong to use the word because the C words are beautiful,

00:23:04.980 nurturing, and honest. 0.60

00:23:06.680 The Daily Beast headline was a visual high five complete with a damn about that word on 0.89

00:23:12.180 Ivanka. 0.96

00:23:13.040 Jim Gaffigan, the least potty mouth comedian on the planet, Taibbi writes, went off on Trump,

00:23:18.260 uh, not pre, not, not long prior, uh, well, well into his presidency.

00:23:22.260 And Forbes came out and said, oh, it was a fourth wall experience revealing a man who simply

00:23:26.240 wants things to go back to normal.

00:23:28.180 The Washington Post called that De Niro speech, one of the hits of the Tony Awards.

00:23:31.920 I could go on.

00:23:32.800 So if you want to say F Trump or Trump's an effort or Ivanka's a C word, go for it. 0.54

00:23:37.520 But if some pilot may or may not have said, let's go, Brandon, the G rated version of

00:23:42.900 all of that, we need investigations.

00:23:45.740 Complaints ought to be written to the FAA and so on.

00:23:48.400 Yeah.

00:23:48.740 So first of all, you know, saying F the president, it's vulgar, but it's also been the norm throughout

00:23:54.480 all of American political life.

00:23:57.360 You know, they didn't have exactly that vulgarity, but, you know, ask Martin Van Buren or John

00:24:01.720 Quincy Adams or Andrew Jackson, whether he was subjected to derision and abuse.

00:24:07.280 And the answer is yes.

00:24:08.700 And in all cases, and they all hated it, but it's part of living in a free country.

00:24:12.560 And the thing about let's go, Brandon, it's a joke version of Joe Biden.

00:24:20.220 And it's not just the jive, but Biden is making fun of this whitewashing or misunderstanding,

00:24:25.620 whatever it was, of the phrase.

00:24:27.800 It's funny.

00:24:28.880 It's meant in a relatively lighthearted way.

00:24:33.000 And as you say, we're not sure whether the pilot actually said this.

00:24:36.280 There's been some people saying maybe he said let's go Braves.

00:24:39.340 But then, you know, there's an audio out there kind of suggesting that.

00:24:43.120 But then the audio actually might have been from another flight.

00:24:45.860 So so who knows?

00:24:47.340 But the idea that this guy is Juliette Kayyem was suggesting, you know, could have been experiencing

00:24:53.120 a mental health crisis and was seething with anger such that they couldn't be trusted to

00:24:58.000 fly a plane is absurd.

00:25:00.540 And you have this other analyst at CNN.

00:25:03.020 I I can't say her name.

00:25:05.380 I don't want to mispronounce it.

00:25:07.060 And she's a Yale professor compared it to saying long live ISIS.

00:25:11.420 Right.

00:25:11.780 When someone if a pilot said that everyone would freak out because ISIS is a terrorist

00:25:16.120 group.

00:25:16.700 And if someone loyal to ISIS might be subject to committing a suicide attack.

00:25:21.000 So saying clearly what must have been a jokey way.

00:25:25.040 Let's go.

00:25:25.560 Brandon is nothing like that.

00:25:28.240 So this is just what drives people so crazy.

00:25:30.780 What's good for the goose is never good for the grant gander.

00:25:34.140 And in this case, it was, you know, F your guy for me, but not F our guy for thee.

00:25:40.180 Yeah, that's right.

00:25:40.960 This reminds me of back when I was practicing law. 0.72

00:25:43.420 One of my fellow lawyers in my firm, we were up against just the nastiest woman. 1.00

00:25:49.160 God, she was so nasty. 1.00

00:25:50.480 And she was just a bottom feeder. 1.00

00:25:52.660 I mean, on everything, she'd stab you in the back and she wouldn't give you an extension 0.99

00:25:55.760 and she'd swear at you and call you names. 0.99

00:25:58.460 And she'd always do it outside the presence of the judge.

00:26:00.640 But anyway, none of us liked her.

00:26:03.120 And her name was Doris.

00:26:04.980 And one of my partners went into court and she won a motion.

00:26:10.660 It was a small motion, but she won.

00:26:12.060 And she looked at him and she said, it's not so fun now, is it? 1.00

00:26:16.140 And he looked at her and said, fuck you, Doris. 1.00

00:26:19.780 No, he said, no, no, wait, wait, wait. 1.00

00:26:21.540 Let me, I did it. 0.55

00:26:22.200 He goes, blow me, Doris. 0.98

00:26:24.020 That's what he said, blow me.

00:26:25.700 And she was like, enjoy your complaint before the ethics board. 0.91

00:26:29.860 So he came back to the office.

00:26:30.960 He's like, she's going to report me to the ethics board.

00:26:33.080 And I'm like, wait, are you sure it was blow me?

00:26:35.980 Maybe it was you're below me, Doris.

00:26:39.700 Let's go through it again.

00:26:41.660 Let's make sure.

00:26:43.420 That's classic.

00:26:44.540 And I'm sure, you know, I haven't gone and done the forensics on this, Megan.

00:26:48.160 But I imagine if you look at every TikTok video and Instagram video and Twitter video

00:26:51.840 of people saying, let's go, Brandon.

00:26:53.260 And they're smiling, right?

00:26:55.300 They're not seething with anger and hatred.

00:26:58.580 It's something they think is lighthearted.

00:27:02.220 Yeah, exactly.

00:27:02.820 It's an inside joke.

00:27:03.740 It's kind of like a funny, you know, you're in the in crowd.

00:27:07.080 You know what it means.

00:27:08.300 People are saying, like, my mom has no idea what that means.

00:27:10.440 She'd be asking me, what is that?

00:27:12.280 So it's kind of the people are still enjoying knowing and using it.

00:27:16.520 And who knows whether the guy actually said that or not.

00:27:18.400 OK, Kyrsten Sinema back in the news, harassed again.

00:27:23.000 The DOJ 100 percent is going to go after you if they think you've threatened a school board

00:27:27.200 member by overstaying your time at the mic.

00:27:30.660 But they most definitely are not going to go after you if you harass Kyrsten Sinema in

00:27:34.480 a bathroom or if you show up at a wedding she's been asked to officiate.

00:27:39.840 Keep in mind, this is the Democrat from Arizona who is holding up this.

00:27:43.920 It was a three point five trillion dollar spending bill that was going to pay for all

00:27:48.740 of Joe Biden's domestic wish list items.

00:27:51.640 Now it's down to maybe, I don't know, half that.

00:27:54.220 We have no idea where it's going to go, but it's going somewhere.

00:27:57.040 Anyway, they're still mad.

00:27:57.880 The Democrats are mad that she didn't she's not getting behind the full three point five 1.00

00:28:01.580 in addition to the one point five, one point two trillion dollar infrastructure.

00:28:05.000 I mean, the numbers are just mind boggling.

00:28:06.600 So just to put her terrible behavior in perspective, it's OK.

00:28:11.200 So she goes out to officiate a wedding of a friend's daughter.

00:28:16.340 And the tearful mother of the bride has to come out and beg these protesters to be quiet

00:28:24.900 and not ruin the wedding.

00:28:26.560 Here's a little bit of that.

00:28:27.760 Hi, thanks for ruining my wedding.

00:28:29.460 I really appreciate it.

00:28:30.400 You know what?

00:28:31.220 She's ruining our wives. 1.00

00:28:32.720 That's my story.

00:28:34.100 It's just my wedding.

00:28:35.140 I know.

00:28:36.020 I'm beautiful.

00:28:36.580 You are.

00:28:36.820 Well, I really wish I could enjoy my wedding without you ruining it.

00:28:39.760 I know you do.

00:28:40.840 Could you just go down to the corner for an hour?

00:28:44.540 How about it's my daughter's wedding?

00:28:47.640 Just for an hour.

00:28:49.200 Just let her get married, please. 0.50

00:28:51.700 This person is not my daughter.

00:28:54.020 My daughter is getting married.

00:28:55.480 Will you tell her that we think that we're going to sell out?

00:28:59.180 I don't know.

00:29:00.020 Listen, tell her.

00:29:00.900 We don't like what you're doing to our country.

00:29:04.520 I'll let you invite that.

00:29:06.360 You know what?

00:29:07.320 Tell her.

00:29:07.680 You've really corrupted the whole country.

00:29:08.780 Tell her.

00:29:09.460 I don't disagree with any of you people and your point of view and your rights.

00:29:14.120 It's my daughter's wedding.

00:29:16.460 So throw her out. 1.00

00:29:17.460 Please just go down to the corner for one hour.

00:29:20.740 Please.

00:29:21.880 It's my daughter's wedding.

00:29:23.580 Shame.

00:29:23.980 Shame.

00:29:24.060 Just one hour.

00:29:24.600 Shame.

00:29:25.120 Shame.

00:29:25.440 Shame.

00:29:25.720 We're going to leave.

00:29:27.160 We're going to leave.

00:29:27.720 We're going to leave.

00:29:28.520 We're going to leave.

00:29:29.160 Shame.

00:29:31.760 Shame.

00:29:32.480 They're doing the Game of Thrones shame rant on her. 0.99

00:29:35.460 Yeah.

00:29:36.020 This is one of the worst aspects of our public life at the moment is there's no separation

00:29:40.440 between the public and the private sphere.

00:29:44.180 And Kristen Sinema should be able to go to the bathroom without being harassed. 1.00

00:29:47.540 You should be able to go to a wedding, I guess, make sure she was officiating at this

00:29:50.080 wedding without the wedding being disrupted.

00:29:52.960 And there's just it's thuggish, goonish behavior. 0.69

00:29:56.720 And that lacks all common decency.

00:29:59.820 This woman who's getting married, you know, it's a day she'll remember the rest of your life. 0.84

00:30:05.120 And why are you blighting it?

00:30:06.660 What's possibly being accomplished there?

00:30:09.080 What is this besides a expression of just witless malice and sheer destructiveness and

00:30:17.160 lack of consideration for for other people?

00:30:19.720 So, you know, the people on the right can do this, too.

00:30:22.920 You occasionally have people showing up with bullhorns in people's houses.

00:30:26.580 It's just it shouldn't happen.

00:30:27.960 No one should do it.

00:30:29.980 It's wrong.

00:30:31.080 It's un-American. 0.82

00:30:32.220 Eventually, someone's going to get hurt.

00:30:33.840 We've already seen, you know, we had congressmen shot up at a baseball field as a function

00:30:38.840 of partisan hate.

00:30:40.420 But we could see more of that coming unless people just kind of back off.

00:30:43.980 And I'll just say the last thing I'll say about this, Megan, is, you know, if you're

00:30:47.240 in the public sphere, when people abuse you, even if, you know, they're out of out of

00:30:52.200 bounds, it's kind of hard to take.

00:30:53.840 You know, it can get under your skin.

00:30:55.380 It can rattle you.

00:30:56.360 And just something that I've been really struck by is just how utterly composed Kristen

00:31:01.560 Sinema has been throughout this.

00:31:03.620 That bathroom incident.

00:31:04.940 You know, she she goes in the stall. 1.00

00:31:06.420 She does her business, comes out washing her hands.

00:31:08.120 Excuse me.

00:31:08.720 You know, I know it's totally unflappable.

00:31:11.920 There's an airport video where she was talking to Tim Scott at National Reagan Airport when

00:31:16.560 they're leaving, leaving Washington, D.C.

00:31:19.260 for the weekend.

00:31:20.020 And again, someone's trailing her, harassing her.

00:31:22.020 And she says, you know, sorry, Tim, I'm sorry, you have to put up with this.

00:31:25.380 So I think she's she's been really impressive and a very, very interesting and unusual lady.

00:31:31.100 I like witless malice.

00:31:32.320 That's exactly right.

00:31:33.140 If that had been me coming out of the bathroom stall and they'd come over to me, I would

00:31:35.620 have rubbed my hands all over them.

00:31:37.460 I would have.

00:31:38.000 Right.

00:31:38.300 Before you get to the sink, you come over to me before I wash my hands.

00:31:40.880 Your business.

00:31:41.620 Too bad.

00:31:42.160 You got my business.

00:31:42.920 Now you're now you're in it.

00:31:44.020 Now you're really in it.

00:31:45.620 But can I you guys have been making the point on the editors, which I love the editors, the podcast.

00:31:50.020 About how, you know, they keep pointing at her as like Bernie Sanders and others will

00:31:55.640 point at her and Manchin and say it's just not right for two senators to be able to hold

00:32:00.740 up the will of the people, you know, to hold up this three point five trillion dollar spending

00:32:05.480 bill on all these Democrat wishlist items in addition to the one point two trillion.

00:32:09.720 The numbers are mind boggling.

00:32:11.580 We've never passed money or bills like with this amount of spending in them before.

00:32:15.460 Never.

00:32:16.740 This is like crazy beyond wartime spending.

00:32:20.020 And they make it sound like she and Manchin have some obligation to the country to fold.

00:32:27.780 But it's not two senators upholding the will of the people.

00:32:32.080 Yeah, it's 52.

00:32:33.300 So you take 50, 50 cents, track two Democrats and you have 52 against.

00:32:37.620 That's a majority.

00:32:38.860 That's not anti-majoritarians.

00:32:40.420 The definition of majoritarianism.

00:32:43.120 And the reason why they're having so much trouble getting this agenda through, obviously, is they're

00:32:48.680 acting as though they have FDR, LBJ style majorities and they just don't.

00:32:53.800 FDR came in 1932 with a 200 seat majority in the House and 58 senators and went up astonishingly

00:33:01.680 enough in 1934.

00:33:03.180 I think in 1934, Republicans are down to 89 members of the House and 16 senators.

00:33:10.020 I mean, the Republican Party basically then vaporized.

00:33:12.740 Yeah.

00:33:12.960 And in that circumstance, you get to do what you want, more or less.

00:33:17.280 Even then, you know, party coalitions can be complicated.

00:33:23.000 So even then, you don't just get to do, you know, work your absolute will, but you get

00:33:28.040 to force historic change through.

00:33:30.540 And when you, Joe Biden, and you lost seats in the House in 2020 and have a 50-50 tie and

00:33:38.300 certainly are going to lose the House next year, it's going to be really hard to pass

00:33:42.600 through a transformational agenda.

00:33:44.560 And they kind of fooled themselves.

00:33:46.180 There's a lot of wishful thinking.

00:33:47.420 There's a lot of wishful commentary in the press about how amazing Joe Biden was.

00:33:52.060 Now the cold reality is slapping them in the face, and they'll probably still get these

00:33:56.660 two bills, the infrastructure and the reconciliation bill.

00:33:59.380 But as we've seen, they're going to be much reduced, and understandably so.

00:34:03.960 Meantime, the country's not behind Joe Biden.

00:34:06.280 The latest Gallup poll shows his approval rating at 42%, which apparently is lower than

00:34:11.180 any other modern first-year president at a similar point in time, with the exception of

00:34:14.500 Trump, who is at 37%.

00:34:16.420 And 71% of the American people believe the United States is on the wrong track.

00:34:22.900 That's up eight points since August.

00:34:26.120 So since Afghanistan, I mean, it was falling during that.

00:34:29.540 It's kept going in the wrong direction for Joe Biden.

00:34:33.160 That includes 93% of Republicans who think we're on the wrong track, 70% of independents,

00:34:38.000 and even 48% of Democrats.

00:34:41.980 People have no confidence in him, and they don't feel optimistic about the country, and

00:34:47.940 they don't think he's competent or effective, nor do they say he's uniting the country.

00:34:52.500 I mean, it's fail, fail, fail, fail.

00:34:56.380 So what do you make of that?

00:34:57.020 Besides that, it's all going great.

00:34:58.140 Yeah, other than that, it's wonderful.

00:34:59.560 Yeah, he came in at a weak place because he was a default president.

00:35:04.380 70% of Biden's voters say they were voting against Donald Trump rather than for him.

00:35:10.420 And Joe Biden's been around a very long time in Washington, and no one ever said, that's

00:35:14.980 the guy.

00:35:15.680 That's the guy we need leading this country.

00:35:17.640 He just happened to be in the right place at the right time, survived the Democratic

00:35:20.920 primaries, primarily because it wasn't Bernie Sanders.

00:35:23.480 So he's kind of a double default president.

00:35:25.460 And then he thought conditions would just lift him.

00:35:29.340 You know, the economy would be roaring, the pandemic would be crushed.

00:35:33.520 And obviously, those two things have been much more complicated than he counted on.

00:35:37.740 And then he just violated what should be a cardinal rule.

00:35:40.620 Don't create unnecessary debacles.

00:35:43.820 He did it at the border, and he did it in Afghanistan.

00:35:47.340 And when you run as the guy based on norms and calm and competence, it's especially important

00:35:53.040 not to create unnecessary debacles.

00:35:56.320 So he's, you know, I don't think the bottom is probably falling out.

00:36:00.160 But 42%, you're getting close, you know, and if these bills go down, or there's some other

00:36:07.760 debacle lurking here, you know, he could get into the high 30s.

00:36:12.680 And then you could see, you know, all bets are off what happens in the House then, you know,

00:36:17.300 40, 50, 60 Republican pickup could be conceivable in certain circumstances.

00:36:24.540 You think?

00:36:26.060 Yeah, if he takes another lurch down.

00:36:29.040 Now, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

00:36:30.300 I think he'll probably get these bills.

00:36:32.480 And maybe he kind of floats up a little bit from that.

00:36:35.660 But it's easier to see how more things can go wrong than how they're going to work out

00:36:42.320 for him the next six or 12 months.

00:36:44.380 He continues to stumble on his words at virtually every appearance, does not instill confidence

00:36:49.260 when it comes to his mental competence.

00:36:51.420 And his VP doesn't either.

00:36:54.740 She is a uniquely uninspirational figure if you look at how the public reacts to her,

00:37:00.420 even Democratic crowds.

00:37:02.260 We're going to show you a bit of that after this quick break so you can see for yourself.

00:37:05.780 I mean, you've seen it before.

00:37:06.720 You will see it again momentarily.

00:37:08.340 And then we're going to talk immigration and about these massive payments we're apparently

00:37:11.840 considering paying out now to families who sent their children across our southern border,

00:37:16.400 willingly sent their children across our southern border, got separated and now want

00:37:19.800 the American taxpayer to pay half a million dollars per person, per person.

00:37:25.420 It's more than Gold Star families get paid. 1.00

00:37:27.540 That's in one minute.

00:37:28.740 Also, remember, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111 every

00:37:34.680 weekday at noon east and our full video show and clips you can watch as well when you subscribe

00:37:40.060 to my YouTube channel, which is YouTube.com slash Megyn Kelly.

00:37:43.480 If you prefer the audio version, you want to share it with somebody who missed it, you can

00:37:46.220 subscribe, download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts

00:37:50.920 and post a review while you're on there because I still read them all.

00:37:54.720 I have read every single Apple review and there's, I don't know, 21,000 now.

00:37:59.940 So I've read them all.

00:38:00.640 It's a fun way of keeping in communication with you guys.

00:38:03.240 Check it out and post a comment and I promise you I will read it.

00:38:09.720 So Biden's approval numbers are down.

00:38:11.980 Optimism and direction of the country is down.

00:38:15.100 And his number two is not making people feel more inspired than he is.

00:38:19.280 That's for sure.

00:38:19.980 So she gets involved.

00:38:20.760 They're all involved now in trying to rally the troops for Terry McAuliffe back to Virginia.

00:38:24.720 And, um, gosh, every appearance she does, she fails. 0.73

00:38:27.920 I mean, it's, it's awkward.

00:38:29.280 She just, she can't land it.

00:38:31.060 You know, she's just not well received by Democrats.

00:38:34.500 I mean, this isn't Kamala Harris in front of a bunch of Republicans.

00:38:37.540 So here she is trying to fire up the McAuliffe crowd.

00:38:41.340 Watch and listen.

00:38:42.100 Tell everybody, you know, to vote tomorrow.

00:38:45.180 Nothing like saying you want to meet me tomorrow.

00:38:48.440 What you, what you doing tomorrow?

00:38:51.020 You got any plans tomorrow?

00:38:53.420 Tomorrow's a good day.

00:38:54.640 It's going to be a good day.

00:38:57.520 But the point is.

00:39:00.740 To find smattering, smattering of applause.

00:39:05.380 Your thoughts.

00:39:07.340 Yeah.

00:39:07.740 So she's just not very good.

00:39:10.240 I mean, there's a reason why she was at 3% in the polls and was one of the first Democrats

00:39:15.200 to, to drop out.

00:39:16.600 And then she won this great lottery ticket by getting selected as Biden's Veep.

00:39:22.240 And this, Megan, has to be what the scenario that keeps Democrats up at night.

00:39:26.080 Something happens to the Biden, right?

00:39:28.880 God, God forbid we all wish him well.

00:39:30.420 But for some reason, he can't run again in 2024, chooses not to run again in 2024.

00:39:35.720 And then Kamala Harris is either already president or is, you know, running as a sitting vice

00:39:41.840 president for the party's nomination.

00:39:44.200 How would you turn her away?

00:39:46.020 Right.

00:39:46.220 The first African-American vice president, first woman vice president, the historic figure

00:39:52.520 at the time when the party is absolutely obsessed with woke identity politics.

00:39:57.180 At the same time, everyone knows she just is not very good at this.

00:40:02.360 I mean, she can't even keep staffs. 1.00

00:40:03.680 Her own staff doesn't like her.

00:40:05.540 So that that's that scenario where, you know, you're running Kamala Harris against Donald

00:40:11.760 Trump against anyone is the single worst possibility for the Democratic Party.

00:40:18.840 It's like the point about how Terry McAuliffe, he's he's good at retail politics as a general

00:40:24.380 matter, not this past month or two, but as a general matter, he's well-liked and he can

00:40:28.800 fire you up and he can make you laugh.

00:40:30.940 She's the opposite.

00:40:31.680 She like even what is she saying?

00:40:34.420 See you tomorrow.

00:40:35.820 You know, that's a good day.

00:40:37.260 It's going to be a good day to say see you tomorrow.

00:40:39.360 What is she saying?

00:40:40.240 How is that her message to try to fire up the crowd? 0.97

00:40:43.340 She just doesn't get it.

00:40:44.600 She's not able to connect on a human to human level in a way a politician generally must 0.99

00:40:51.280 to ascend to an office like that.

00:40:53.320 So it does speak to the real predicament these Democrats are in.

00:40:57.080 Yeah, it's it's Hillary. 0.99

00:40:58.920 It's the same problem Hillary Clinton has. 1.00

00:41:00.480 There's just a lack of relatability there that goes back at the end of the day to a

00:41:05.760 lack of sincerity.

00:41:08.000 And, you know, very often politicians fake sincerity.

00:41:11.520 Right.

00:41:11.900 But but they have you have to be good at good ones.

00:41:14.180 If you're not good at it, people feel it's false and no one's going to like you, even

00:41:18.960 the people who agree with you on every single issue.

00:41:22.060 And Kamala Harris just has this problem in it in a huge way. 1.00

00:41:25.940 And it's not something you know, you either have or you don't at a certain level.

00:41:29.760 And it's not something that she's going to learn or not something that she's going to

00:41:32.920 get better at.

00:41:33.920 This is just the way the way she is. 0.99

00:41:36.080 Yeah.

00:41:36.260 Like Barack Obama had or Bill Clinton had or Trump had.

00:41:39.720 You know, I mean, they all had that ability.

00:41:41.040 OK, let's talk about immigration, because it's sort of a stunning headline that I think 0.88

00:41:47.880 we get the journal reporting that the DOJ, HHS and Homeland Security are all meeting about

00:41:53.580 a plan considering paying about four hundred and fifty thousand dollars per person, potentially

00:42:00.140 almost a million per family, because apparently most of these kids who were sent across the

00:42:03.420 border either came alone or came with one alleged parent.

00:42:06.600 They've filed a lawsuit, a lot of these folks who came across the southern border illegally

00:42:11.540 through the ACLU, demanding three point four million dollars per family.

00:42:15.580 They want the American taxpayer to pay them for the family separation policy that Trump

00:42:19.160 put into place, which was meant to deter this kind of behavior.

00:42:22.620 He didn't want more illegal immigrants coming across and it was working. 1.00

00:42:26.600 The total payout could top one billion.

00:42:29.460 The ACLU alleges the children suffer trauma and anxiety.

00:42:32.700 You know, you could very well argue they should take that up with their parents who made this

00:42:37.560 reckless decision.

00:42:38.880 One of the government attorneys apparently trying to defend against the ACL lawsuit actually

00:42:43.920 objected, threatening to remove his name from the pleadings because he found this so objectionable

00:42:48.240 that we were going to pay half a million dollars to people breaking our laws when we only pay

00:42:52.920 a hundred thousand dollars to the families of those who lose their lines in their lives in

00:42:56.620 the line of duty, Rich.

00:42:58.120 So you tell me how this is going to play politically and whether this could ever really happen.

00:43:02.040 Yeah, it would be it would be a debacle for them politically. 0.71

00:43:06.960 And look, this was a bad policy.

00:43:09.100 It was a mistake.

00:43:10.380 The idea was you'd have zero tolerance, meaning that everyone who came across illegally would

00:43:15.180 be prosecuted, at least notionally charged with the crime.

00:43:20.240 And while you're doing that to the adult, the child would be off somewhere else.

00:43:24.260 And then they're instantly reunited.

00:43:26.220 At least that's at the time.

00:43:27.220 That's the way the idea was presented to me.

00:43:29.460 And I supported it because that seemed reasonable to me.

00:43:32.540 But what happened is, you know, if you're holding the adult for a certain period of time while

00:43:38.080 he or she is awaiting the court proceeding, you can only keep the child in a certain facility.

00:43:43.260 You know, there's a strict time limit on that before HHS takes them.

00:43:46.920 And then they're resettled somewhere in the country.

00:43:48.680 So you had this unsustainable situation where these kids were kind of disappearing in the

00:43:52.840 in this bureaucratic mall.

00:43:54.920 And that was wrong.

00:43:55.840 And it should have ended.

00:43:57.240 And it didn't.

00:43:58.200 And this this was at a time when the Trump administration was just desperate to find

00:44:02.820 some solution at the border.

00:44:03.880 This wasn't it.

00:44:04.440 They ended up with the solution remain in Mexico and associated policies that Biden undid.

00:44:10.400 But the the the forcing element in this this problem, obviously, is folks coming across 1.00

00:44:17.760 the border illegally in the first place.

00:44:20.400 And the idea that that the United States government should pay them from having mistaken policy to

00:44:26.240 try to discourage them from breaking our laws and violating our sovereignty, doing something

00:44:30.800 they never should have done in the first place is really hard to take.

00:44:34.380 And just the disparity you point out between what these payments would would in theory be

00:44:39.420 and what we pay the families of the fallen.

00:44:41.580 Dan Crenshaw hit this as as well in a viral tweet a week or so ago.

00:44:46.920 That is just totally unsustainable.

00:44:49.800 And Peter Doocy of Fox News shattered, shattered a question overseas to Biden about this yesterday

00:44:56.460 or today.

00:44:57.400 And Biden didn't say anything is going down the elevator sort of scratched, scratched his head

00:45:01.700 somewhat awkwardly.

00:45:03.300 So I'd be surprised if they do this, if they do do this, it will supercharge the the what's

00:45:09.920 already a pretty fierce backlash by the administration.

00:45:13.440 As a lawyer, I'd say fight, fight the case, because you've got assumption of the risk.

00:45:18.060 Trump was implementing these policies at the time.

00:45:20.660 A lot of these people made the decision to come.

00:45:22.860 And Stephen Miller told us on the record that these parents were given the option to return

00:45:26.560 home with or without the children and most shows without.

00:45:29.840 So there's a legal case to be fought there.

00:45:32.180 Rich Lowry, always a pleasure.

00:45:33.800 Be sure to check him out on National Review.

00:45:35.460 Love National Review.

00:45:36.300 Love the editors.

00:45:37.340 And we'll talk again soon.

00:45:38.800 Coming up, Alan Dershowitz on Alec Baldwin vaccine mandates and more.

00:45:42.800 A big day at the U.S.

00:45:49.400 Supreme Court.

00:45:50.700 The justices are now hearing arguments regarding that controversial Texas abortion law and another

00:45:56.240 case that could soon be in the hands of the justices.

00:45:59.640 President Biden's vaccine mandate.

00:46:01.920 The lawsuits against it are piling up.

00:46:04.040 And joining me now to discuss it all.

00:46:05.600 Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus at Harvard Law School and author of the new book, The Case

00:46:11.680 for Vaccine Mandates.

00:46:13.820 So you know what side he's on.

00:46:15.700 That's one thing about we love about Alan.

00:46:17.060 He never hides what size he was that he's on.

00:46:19.320 Alan, great to have you back.

00:46:20.340 Thanks for being here.

00:46:21.360 Thanks for having me on.

00:46:22.420 All right.

00:46:22.640 Let's start with what's happening before SCOTUS today.

00:46:24.700 The Supreme Court taking up this controversial law down in Texas where they tried something

00:46:29.660 we had never seen before, which was to pass a basically a private right of enforcement

00:46:35.940 of a law that said you can't have an abortion later than six weeks. 1.00

00:46:39.880 And the average term of pregnancy that leads to an abortion is around 16 weeks.

00:46:45.620 So this is well before the average time a woman would seek an abortion.

00:46:49.360 The federal law at the Supreme Court level has already been recognized to extend to a 24

00:46:53.000 week ability to abort a fetus.

00:46:55.920 And Texas got around it by saying we're going to make it six weeks.

00:46:58.960 We're going to tie it to a heartbeat.

00:47:01.020 And we're going to say instead of having a state official come after you, if you violate

00:47:06.180 that as a mother, we're going to allow a private right of enforcement by a cab driver, anybody 1.00

00:47:11.700 who aids or abets, anybody could bring it against a cab driver, et cetera, who aids or abets

00:47:18.040 in the performance of the abortion.

00:47:19.780 Finally, it goes up before the Supreme Court.

00:47:22.120 And so far this morning, the reports are not totally unexpected, but it looks like Alito

00:47:28.860 and Gorsuch are the ones who are potentially open minded to upholding the Texas law.

00:47:35.860 Clarence Thomas always says nothing, but I'm going to guess he's with them.

00:47:39.220 Justice Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts suggested he's not totally unsympathetic.

00:47:43.700 He said, I share some of the concerned concerns voiced by Alito and Gorsuch.

00:47:47.240 But you tell me that's four at best.

00:47:50.560 I don't know about Amy Coney Barrett.

00:47:52.100 You know, she's a she's a potential vote for that. 1.00

00:47:54.320 But this is a crazy law.

00:47:55.980 I mean, it's really this is out there.

00:47:58.180 And whether you think based on what I've just said, it has any chance of being upheld.

00:48:02.660 Well, the argument that's being made is an argument I made the day the law was passed.

00:48:07.280 And I wrote it in an article on The Hill.

00:48:09.920 And that is, if this law is upheld, then any liberal state can pass a similar law saying

00:48:15.600 anybody who owns a gun can be sued.

00:48:17.900 Anybody who participates in a gay marriage can be sued. 0.96

00:48:21.260 Anyone who does anything that the conservatives don't like and the liberals like can also be

00:48:28.060 the subject of this.

00:48:29.200 What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

00:48:31.280 And it doesn't pass the shoe on the other foot test.

00:48:34.140 So this is not just about abortion.

00:48:36.180 It's about whether any state can circumvent the Supreme Court's decision by simply allowing

00:48:42.380 a bounty to be offered to anybody outside the state or in the state who wants to earn

00:48:47.360 $10,000 for challenging the lawsuit.

00:48:50.240 And that was raised even by Justice Thomas, who's very concerned about the Second Amendment.

00:48:56.140 Well, what if this was used in New York?

00:48:58.260 If New York passed a statute saying anyone who tries to possess a gun consistent with the

00:49:03.800 Second Amendment and Heller or helps anybody get a gun can be sued for at least $10,000

00:49:09.440 plus their legal fee.

00:49:11.100 So my prediction, the court will not uphold this.

00:49:15.300 And there will be probably two or three votes.

00:49:18.020 I'm not even sure about Thomas.

00:49:19.680 But I don't think they're going to get five to uphold this terrible precedent, forgetting

00:49:24.960 about abortion, terrible precedent that would have completely undercut the civil rights movement,

00:49:31.260 the anti-segregation movement.

00:49:32.760 All Mississippi had to do is pass a statute saying that anybody who went to grades in school

00:49:37.220 can be sued by anybody who doesn't like it.

00:49:40.220 And if that were to be upheld, that would be the end of the Supreme Court's power in the

00:49:44.980 area of segregation, gay rights, religious rights.

00:49:47.980 It's an obvious end around what's been recognized as a constitutional right.

00:49:52.580 You may not agree that it's a constitutional right, but the Supreme Court has so held.

00:49:56.260 It's an obvious end around that.

00:49:58.420 That's not the way the system is designed to work.

00:50:00.780 You may like it on this case if you're pro-life, but you will not like it when it's used by

00:50:05.760 the Democrats, as you point out, or as Kavanaugh actually raised today, conservative

00:50:09.340 justice appointed by Trump when it comes up, for example, on a gun right.

00:50:12.800 Kavanaugh said, to your point earlier, anyone who sells an AR-15 is liable to a private

00:50:17.640 citizen for a million dollars?

00:50:19.140 Would such a law be subject to this?

00:50:21.640 So all the justices are struggling with what this means and what they term the floodgate

00:50:27.140 issues on this.

00:50:28.060 The two liberals, Breyer and Sotomayor, two of the three, Kagans and other, are pressing 0.99

00:50:33.300 all sorts of hypotheticals that could lead to private citizen end arounds when it comes

00:50:39.520 to race integration of schools.

00:50:40.760 As you mentioned, the right to same-sex marriage.

00:50:42.720 There's no end to what an angry citizenry could do.

00:50:47.340 It would lead to the complete erosion of predictability on our constitutional rights in the law, and

00:50:53.380 not just for judge-made law like Roe, but actual rights as documented in the Bill of Rights.

00:50:59.520 Sure.

00:51:00.200 I mean, you could do it with the First Amendment.

00:51:01.780 Anybody who engages in hate speech, even though hate speech is protected by the First Amendment,

00:51:06.880 can be sued.

00:51:08.680 So this is not an abortion case.

00:51:10.720 The abortion case will be argued.

00:51:12.440 This is not an abortion case.

00:51:14.460 This is a case about whether states can circumvent rights by allowing private citizens to bring

00:51:21.060 lawsuits that would make it impossible for people to exercise their rights.

00:51:25.700 Nobody's going to take a chance.

00:51:27.980 No cab driver, no Uber driver, no doctor is going to take a chance that he can be or she 0.98

00:51:32.840 can be ruined completely by a lawsuit.

00:51:35.540 Now, you know, once the lawsuit comes up, it'll probably be struck down as unconstitutional.

00:51:39.600 But in the meantime, and we all live in the meantime all the time, thousands of women 1.00

00:51:44.220 are being chilled out of being able to get abortions now.

00:51:49.460 And by the time the Supreme Court rules, they may be beyond the period where even under the

00:51:54.120 Supreme Court, they can get abortions. 1.00

00:51:55.760 So it will have succeeded in undercutting a woman's right to have an abortion before a 0.99

00:52:01.280 certain amount of time passes.

00:52:02.440 They can.

00:52:04.040 I mean, obviously, they can go to another state outside of sexist. 0.97

00:52:06.900 But given the socioeconomic situation that a lot of women are facing, not everybody's 1.00

00:52:10.940 got the money for that.

00:52:11.800 And everybody's got the time to drive all the miles and so on.

00:52:14.560 So, I mean, you know, as a lawyer, I look at this and say, I get that you don't like

00:52:18.500 it.

00:52:18.640 This is not the way to do it.

00:52:19.740 This is there is a real case coming up that's going to challenge Roe versus Wade out of

00:52:23.120 Mississippi.

00:52:23.740 The court's going to hear it.

00:52:24.820 They're going to get to the the bare bones of whether Roe should stand.

00:52:27.720 Casey, which reinterpreted it in 1992.

00:52:30.080 This is not the way.

00:52:31.500 OK, so let's switch gears.

00:52:33.060 The case for vaccine mandates that by Alan Dershowitz.

00:52:38.240 And so I didn't read the whole book, but I there it is.

00:52:42.100 But I've read the outline that my team did.

00:52:44.640 Why don't why don't you summarize?

00:52:46.840 Because I know you're measured on it.

00:52:48.880 You're not you're not saying in every case they can do it.

00:52:51.960 You're basically saying it has to be a balancing test on whether they can do it.

00:52:55.480 So give us sort of the bottom line version on whether you think they can do it here with

00:52:59.800 respect to the covid situation.

00:53:01.760 Well, it always should be a last resort.

00:53:04.120 Making people do anything to their body should always be a last resort.

00:53:07.680 The first thing we should do is make sure that vaccines are available to everybody.

00:53:11.500 Second thing we should do is use the bully pulpit of the president. 1.00

00:53:14.420 And today, lots of, for example, black doctors are getting on television and urging members

00:53:19.880 of the African-American group community to get vaccine.

00:53:23.160 That's the way to do it, to make sure it's available.

00:53:26.660 Second, you can limit coming to places based on not being vaccinated.

00:53:31.420 For example, somebody may say, I have a right to go to the theater not being vaccinated.

00:53:35.440 Well, I have the right to go to the theater and not catch your illness.

00:53:39.000 So it's a balancing right.

00:53:41.060 And I think the courts will and have upheld that.

00:53:43.600 For example, Indiana University restricted coming on the campus.

00:53:47.160 That will be upheld.

00:53:48.400 The last question and the hardest one will be, what if nothing works and we really have

00:53:54.100 to compel people to get a vaccination like Massachusetts did in Massachusetts versus Jacobson

00:54:00.740 in 1905?

00:54:01.520 Of course, they only had a fine and there was a state statute that was passed.

00:54:06.560 I don't know how the court will come out on that.

00:54:08.900 I think it's a last resort.

00:54:10.680 I do think that there's a strong case for compelling vaccination if nothing else will

00:54:16.840 work to stop the pandemic.

00:54:18.180 George Washington required every single soldier fighting for the revolution to have a smallpox

00:54:24.520 vaccine, saying that we're at greater risk of losing the revolution based on smallpox than

00:54:30.660 we are in losing the revolution based on British victories on the battlefield.

00:54:36.580 That's not a precedent.

00:54:37.740 But it tells us that I think decent people should favor vaccination if vaccination can help prevent

00:54:46.120 the spread of disease.

00:54:47.160 In the book, I give a hypothetical.

00:54:48.940 What if we develop a 100% foolproof vaccine?

00:54:52.980 No side effects.

00:54:55.040 It cures cancer and heart disease, but it has no effect on communicable diseases.

00:55:02.220 Everybody should take it.

00:55:03.300 But the government should not be allowed to compel people to take a vaccine that merely

00:55:08.680 saves their own lives.

00:55:10.880 Only when the vaccine will help prevent the spread to others who don't want to get the

00:55:16.820 disease should the government have the power to do that.

00:55:19.400 That's not me speaking.

00:55:20.460 That's John Stuart Mill.

00:55:21.960 That's many great philosophers over time.

00:55:24.840 And I think that's the right approach.

00:55:26.840 Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

00:55:29.440 And your right to sneeze on me without being vaccinated ends at my nostrils and my lungs.

00:55:37.240 And so we have to strike an appropriate balance.

00:55:40.040 And the balance is last resort.

00:55:42.460 You don't do it unless it's absolutely essential.

00:55:45.020 Then there's the question of exceptions.

00:55:46.800 Should there be a religious exception? 0.85

00:55:48.260 Wait, before we get to that, let's table that for one second and just stick with part

00:55:52.120 one before we get to the exemptions.

00:55:54.260 So I feel like that would have been a stronger argument, you know, the mandate, because we

00:56:00.820 have to protect public health and your right to sneeze and sort of infect me ends at my

00:56:04.460 nose when we were dealing with the alpha variant versus the delta, because the delta can be

00:56:10.680 spread by the vaccinated as well as by the unvaccinated.

00:56:14.340 I actually thought it was kind of interesting just this weekend and getting ready for this

00:56:17.740 segment.

00:56:18.020 I read an article in The Lancet, this respected medical journal, citing a study by the Imperial

00:56:22.960 College of London, et cetera, and other researchers.

00:56:25.800 And what they concluded is the vaccinated are just as infectious as the unvaccinated.

00:56:33.700 They are just as infectious.

00:56:35.920 So you do not prevent my sneeze from causing you covid by the fact that I'm vaccinated or

00:56:44.420 unvaccinated.

00:56:45.260 It just it that's not the way delta works.

00:56:47.740 And I think it undermines the case for vaccine mandates.

00:56:50.320 What say you?

00:56:51.960 Well, what say I is that there are disputes about that study and about other studies.

00:56:57.820 There are other studies that say the fewer people get the disease at all, the lower the

00:57:03.000 rate of spreading.

00:57:04.480 And if you have initial vaccinations, even against the first variant on that, it will prevent

00:57:11.200 or help prevent the spread.

00:57:12.540 It's not 100 percent.

00:57:14.440 It's a question of the balance of probabilities.

00:57:17.700 But we know from demographic experience that countries in which there is massive vaccination,

00:57:24.180 New Zealand, Israel, Denmark, some of the countries have a much lower rate, not only of the spread

00:57:30.540 of the disease, but of hospitalization and of death.

00:57:34.080 But that's a different story.

00:57:35.260 Lower risk of hospitalization and death speaks to did I get the vaccine to protect myself from

00:57:39.320 being hospitalized or dying?

00:57:40.740 Yes, I did.

00:57:41.740 So Megyn Kelly is better protected versus somebody who doesn't have the vaccine and didn't have 0.67

00:57:46.620 COVID.

00:57:47.340 But I think it's it's a tougher argument to make when I can infect somebody.

00:57:53.800 Now, maybe not for the same amount of time.

00:57:55.240 I see the argument like you are.

00:57:56.660 If you're vaccinated, you are still less likely to catch COVID.

00:58:01.580 The time you can spread it is shortened.

00:58:04.960 But when you do get infected, these so-called breakthrough infections, as they have been dubbed,

00:58:10.080 Jen Psaki just announced she got one. 0.97

00:58:12.300 You are just as efficient a spreader as the unvaxxed.

00:58:17.620 And as you know, the courts have sort of a sliding scale where you look at how necessary

00:58:21.920 is it?

00:58:22.440 How much protection would it give if we mandated it?

00:58:24.900 And I think the fact that you can spread it really, really well as a vaccinated person

00:58:28.780 undermines the case for vaccine mandates.

00:58:30.720 I make that case in my book.

00:58:32.460 Even before some of this data became available, I said in my book, if it turns out that the

00:58:38.540 spread of the disease is not slowed down by the third vaccine or by the second vaccination

00:58:44.000 or even by the first vaccination, that strengthens the case against the mandate.

00:58:48.040 I acknowledge that.

00:58:49.460 It has to follow the science.

00:58:51.660 It has to follow the data.

00:58:53.560 And it would be unconstitutional, I think, for mandate vaccination if the data shows that

00:59:01.800 there is no effect whatsoever on preventing the spread to other people.

00:59:05.860 I don't think that's what the data is now showing.

00:59:07.860 I don't think we're at no effect whatsoever.

00:59:09.400 I think that overstates the Lancet argument.

00:59:11.400 Yeah, but so let's let's switch to exemptions because there's been some interesting legal

00:59:16.240 precedent, you know, back and forth.

00:59:18.520 I continue to follow it.

00:59:19.780 It's I would say in general, it's going for the mandates, the legal precedent that we've

00:59:24.880 seen so far.

00:59:25.460 It was not just Jacobson from 1905, but the more recent cases to challenge mandates, the

00:59:31.140 challenges have been losing.

00:59:32.840 But here and there you see a win.

00:59:35.100 So what's your take on what we've seen so far from the courts on the exemptions?

00:59:38.560 Let me start.

00:59:39.320 Medical exemptions, of course.

00:59:40.680 I've had members of my own family that have been medically exempt because of preexisting

00:59:46.060 conditions, et cetera.

00:59:47.140 And that should be done.

00:59:48.160 And that's being done for the most part.

00:59:50.100 And it should be broadened to make sure that nobody has to take a vaccination if it in any

00:59:55.800 way endangers their health.

00:59:57.240 I think the religious exemption is largely a phony.

01:00:00.560 And I have challenged rabbis, priests and ministers to show me where in the Jewish religion, in

01:00:07.520 the Protestant, in the Catholic or in the Muslim religion, there is any prohibition on

01:00:12.340 vaccination.

01:00:13.080 I know the Jewish religion best.

01:00:14.820 The Torah commands, commands that anybody who has an infectious disease must be taken out

01:00:20.400 of the camp and put in the outskirts of the city until the infection dissipates.

01:00:25.620 In Jewish law, there's a concept called pichoch nefesh, the saving of life.

01:00:30.200 And that's why 99% of rabbis say take the vaccine.

01:00:33.680 99% of priests, 99% of ministers say take the vaccine.

01:00:37.760 Now, if you're a scientist or a Jehovah's Witness and have a longstanding historical

01:00:42.760 objection to any medical intervention, I would give that exemption some support.

01:00:49.940 But if you're a mainline Catholic, Protestant and Jew, you're misusing your religion to try 1.00

01:00:57.340 to have a political decision.

01:00:59.720 That's number one.

01:01:00.320 Number two, the Supreme Court has held in a case called Seeger versus the United States,

01:01:03.960 a conscientious objector case, that if you're going to have a religious exemption, it has

01:01:09.360 to apply to non-religious ideological exemptions if the ideology fits the place that religion

01:01:16.520 would fit into the life of somebody who is traditionally religious, which means the religious

01:01:22.160 exemption can basically eliminate the mandate because anybody can then say, oh, my God, I

01:01:28.180 don't believe in God.

01:01:29.100 I'm not a traditional this.

01:01:30.580 I'm not that.

01:01:31.100 But for me, it's so important.

01:01:34.060 It's just like it would be if it were religious. 0.58

01:01:36.440 And so the very fact that we've expanded the religious exemption to include people who are

01:01:40.660 not religious make the religious exemption much, much harder to apply without gutting

01:01:46.120 the entire process.

01:01:48.200 So I get I get the objection to the religious exemption.

01:01:50.740 I do.

01:01:51.560 I take myself pre-COVID and I think about all the kids who more and more who are showing

01:01:56.440 up at school in New York City with measles, you know, a disease they did not have to get

01:01:59.920 and it's highly contagious.

01:02:01.140 And I remember being like, oh, you know, if they would just get the vaccine, we wouldn't

01:02:05.680 have to deal with this.

01:02:06.580 I don't want my kid next to another kid with measles.

01:02:09.020 So I get it.

01:02:10.220 But I do also see the difference with the COVID vax because it's newer.

01:02:14.480 And if you take it to the opposite extreme, let's say, you know, we know that the COVID

01:02:19.860 vaccines were tested, not they don't have in them, but they were tested on clones of

01:02:26.280 stem cells that at one point were linked to fetuses.

01:02:30.420 I'm told it was voluntary abortions 50 years ago.

01:02:34.800 But we still have those stem cells and clones of them were used to test the vaccines here.

01:02:40.140 I that's the reality.

01:02:43.060 Let's say it came out that the vaccines actually had stem cells in them from aborted fetuses.

01:02:49.700 Don't you think Catholics could come out, even ones who hadn't objected to the MMR vaccine 1.00

01:02:54.580 and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:02:56.940 No, no, no, we're not.

01:02:58.320 I'm not putting that in my body.

01:03:00.120 Certainly not Catholics, maybe Protestants, certainly not Catholics.

01:03:04.560 Catholics take their guidance from the Pope and from the Vatican.

01:03:08.140 The Pope is infallible.

01:03:10.180 The Pope has said, get vaccines.

01:03:13.220 Now, I never signed on for that.

01:03:14.460 I never signed on for Pope infallible.

01:03:16.140 I didn't sign that clause in my Catholicism class.

01:03:18.580 You're not a real Catholic. 0.91

01:03:20.200 If you didn't sign on for infallibility, you're like me.

01:03:24.440 I don't sign on for rabbinical perfection. 0.65

01:03:27.360 That's why, you know, I'm a secular Jew and you're a kind of secular Catholic.

01:03:32.580 You have to sign on for Pope infallibility.

01:03:34.820 You have to sign on for the Vatican telling you what you're going to do if you're otherwise

01:03:39.480 become a Protestant.

01:03:40.780 Protestants talk directly to God.

01:03:42.600 They don't need the intervention of a Pope or a hierarchy.

01:03:45.860 That's why there was a revolution of the Reformation.

01:03:49.760 But if you're going to say the Catholic Church says don't take vaccines, you've got to cite

01:03:55.480 the Vatican.

01:03:56.140 You've got to cite the Pope.

01:03:57.040 You've got to cite your priest.

01:03:58.360 If you can't do that, I don't think you have a Catholic objection.

01:04:01.480 I don't know if you're right.

01:04:02.960 So now that we've broken down my Catholicism, I don't think you're right because we are 1.00

01:04:06.940 seeing some of these religious exemptions upheld.

01:04:09.960 There was just a ruling in New York.

01:04:11.460 I think there was one in the Tenth Circuit where more and more they're saying you do have

01:04:15.080 to allow, I might be wrong about the Tenth Circuit, but New York, certainly there was

01:04:18.060 one saying you've got to allow for a religious exemption.

01:04:20.080 You can't have these vaccines without it.

01:04:22.580 Religion is prevailing.

01:04:23.560 The Supreme Court today has a six to three majority to overrule a previous decision written

01:04:30.260 interestingly enough by Justice Scalia, which says that religion is no special status.

01:04:35.500 If there's a law of general application, even if it violates your religious rights, you have 0.90

01:04:40.300 to comply with it.

01:04:41.580 I think there are now six justices, at least five, that are prepared to overrule that decision

01:04:46.640 and say that if you have a special religious exemption, you may have a right under the Constitution

01:04:52.020 not to do it.

01:04:52.660 So if you're asking me to predict what the Supreme Court will do, I'm on your side.

01:04:56.200 If you're asking me to tell you what I think is right, I think that the medical exemption

01:05:01.440 is right.

01:05:02.260 I think the traditional religious exemption for people who have a longstanding objection

01:05:06.640 to any medical intervention is right.

01:05:09.080 But when you get a couple of Jews here and there, a couple of Catholics here and there,

01:05:12.460 and some Protestants saying our interpretation of the religion goes against everything that

01:05:18.760 the established religion says, but we want to have our own interpretation.

01:05:22.660 There, I'm skeptical.

01:05:24.000 Let me tell you something crazy.

01:05:25.620 At our school, one of our schools that our boys go to, the medical exemption is as follows.

01:05:34.640 If your son has an adverse reaction to the first shot, then we will recognize a medical

01:05:41.360 exemption.

01:05:41.780 I mean, it's insane.

01:05:43.220 It's like, what if we have a blood clotting problem in our family?

01:05:46.160 What if he already has had myocarditis and we don't want to take the risk of having it

01:05:50.000 get worse?

01:05:51.200 The answer is no.

01:05:52.280 He has to take it or it gets expelled.

01:05:54.440 I mean, that's insanity, Alan.

01:05:55.880 That's insanity.

01:05:56.960 I can't take.

01:05:57.860 I personally cannot take the third shot because I do have a clotting issue.

01:06:02.760 I took the first two shots, but I can't take the third shot.

01:06:06.220 I want to take the third shot.

01:06:07.540 I'd like to, but my doctors have told me I can't take it because there may be some clotting

01:06:13.100 problems.

01:06:13.540 I think, as I said right in the beginning, there should be very broad medical exemptions

01:06:17.940 when in doubt exempt, because it really doesn't matter if a few people don't get the vaccine.

01:06:24.560 By the way, if you don't get it, you have to be more careful.

01:06:27.700 I've decided not to go to the opera because I can't get the third shot.

01:06:31.000 I wanted to go to the opera, but I'm making a personal decision because I can't get the

01:06:35.240 third shot. 0.60

01:06:36.060 I'm making decisions not to eat in indoor restaurants, not to go to the opera, not to go

01:06:40.780 to the theater.

01:06:41.300 I would have otherwise.

01:06:43.520 So you have to make sensible judgments about these things.

01:06:47.440 It shouldn't be political.

01:06:48.920 It shouldn't be ideological.

01:06:50.420 It's very upsetting to me that more Republicans are skeptical of the vaccine than Democrats.

01:06:57.400 That shouldn't be the case.

01:06:59.240 Skepticism should arise out of personal views, personal belief, personal experience, not ideology,

01:07:05.440 political.

01:07:06.740 And you're doing the right thing because I think you're 80 now, right?

01:07:10.680 And so you do.

01:07:12.720 Proudly 83.

01:07:13.860 Yeah, you got to be careful.

01:07:14.940 And so I support that.

01:07:15.960 You know, it's it's different when we're looking at young kids and it's like you have to get

01:07:19.080 it despite the fact that you might have a family history.

01:07:20.980 No, family history is not enough.

01:07:22.440 You, you is this, you know, 12 year old.

01:07:24.740 You have to have the history.

01:07:25.640 It's like, well, I have a history of nothing.

01:07:26.900 I'm a little boy.

01:07:27.940 Um, so as some of these policies are insane.

01:07:30.800 Um, anyway, we continue to see the cases come day by day.

01:07:33.720 I think it is going to play out legally.

01:07:35.640 And I think the law ultimately will wind up being a little bit more sympathetic towards

01:07:39.320 those objecting to the vaccine mandates, though.

01:07:41.260 They haven't exactly had a great record so far.

01:07:43.160 The thesis of my book is be careful, be balanced, be nuanced, don't be ideological, follow the

01:07:51.900 science, use mandates only as a last resort, recognize individual autonomy, all of that.

01:07:59.660 But in the end, I'm not an anti-vaxxer.

01:08:03.760 And that's what the thesis of it.

01:08:05.160 Yeah.

01:08:05.760 I mean, I'm not either, but I'm an anti-mandator.

01:08:08.660 More with Alan after this.

01:08:10.100 Alan, so two cases to go over.

01:08:17.180 And let's start with the one that's been all over the news these past couple of weeks.

01:08:21.040 And that's what happened to Alec Baldwin on the set of his movie where he shot the cinematographer

01:08:28.280 Helena Hutchins.

01:08:29.940 Just breaking now, New York Post, her final words.

01:08:33.700 It's chilling.

01:08:34.940 You recall she was shot by Alec Baldwin, who was on set and reportedly did not know

01:08:40.080 know that the gun that he had in his holster was loaded with what we're told was a live

01:08:44.780 round.

01:08:45.360 That means here a live actual bullet, which most of the experts say should have absolutely

01:08:50.780 no place on a movie set.

01:08:52.900 They've got just so the audience knows they've got blanks that go into guns that are a little

01:08:58.100 dangerous that that can that can make smoke and they look and sound like real bullets.

01:09:02.640 Then they've got dummies that just look like real bullets, but they wouldn't give you the

01:09:06.740 sound.

01:09:07.120 But that's just that's for like a gun like this where you could see the bullets in the

01:09:10.120 movie shot and they just want it to look like a real loaded gun because you can see

01:09:13.880 in a Colt 45 if the bullets aren't showing.

01:09:15.940 That's what a dummy round is.

01:09:17.200 Then there's a live round which should not be on a movie set.

01:09:20.000 And what the sheriff seems to be saying is this is a live round.

01:09:23.140 Alec Baldwin never should have had in that gun.

01:09:25.820 Somebody gave him the gun.

01:09:27.180 Somebody admitted that they didn't check the gun that the assistant director.

01:09:31.580 In any event, now we're learning that Helena Hutchins told a boom operator on the Russ

01:09:35.820 movie set as seconds after she was shot sad.

01:09:39.680 That was no good.

01:09:41.440 That was no good at all.

01:09:42.800 And within a few hours, she was pronounced dead.

01:09:46.500 Also being told that as soon as because the director, Joel Sousa, was also reportedly struck

01:09:51.920 by the same round.

01:09:52.840 He dropped to the floor, said, what the F was that?

01:09:55.100 That burns what the F just happened.

01:09:57.320 He had no idea and they are reporting that Alec Baldwin said before he fired the shot.

01:10:04.060 So I guess I'm going to take this out.

01:10:05.580 I'm going to pull it and go bang.

01:10:07.860 It was supposed to be loaded with dummy rounds.

01:10:09.800 He was practicing for the scene.

01:10:11.220 And now the sheriff's saying, Alan, that they are very much taking issue with the word accident

01:10:16.880 and that we should be talking about this in terms of potential crime.

01:10:22.400 Do you see criminal charges being brought?

01:10:24.140 Well, remember, I was involved legally in the two prior cases.

01:10:29.140 I was involved in the Twilight Zone case where Vic Morrow and two children were killed.

01:10:34.420 I helped to represent John Landis, the director.

01:10:37.660 He was acquitted.

01:10:38.720 And then I was involved as a consultant on the Brandon Lee case.

01:10:43.140 Those two cases should have led to never allowing a real gun, even with blanks on a set.

01:10:50.680 That should be the law.

01:10:52.320 Fake guns made out of wax, use CGI, use all kinds of special effects.

01:10:59.140 Never allow a gun on a set.

01:11:01.960 The Second Amendment doesn't apply to movie sets.

01:11:05.400 And so this was a homicide scene.

01:11:07.700 This was a homicide.

01:11:09.660 The question is, is anyone guilty of manslaughter?

01:11:13.740 Remember, the presumption of innocence doesn't operate about a set or an event.

01:11:18.220 There's a presumption that if somebody is killed like this, it was a crime.

01:11:23.120 It was not an accident.

01:11:24.400 But then every individual has a presumption of innocence and you have to focus on each individual.

01:11:30.380 Now, I can't see a strong case being made against Alec Baldwin.

01:11:34.360 He was given a gun saying it was a cold gun.

01:11:36.960 Although he was a producer.

01:11:38.120 I don't know what that really means in the context of a movie like this.

01:11:41.240 It's hard to pinpoint criminal responsibility on him.

01:11:45.220 The person handing him the gun, perhaps.

01:11:47.300 The person who is the armorer, perhaps.

01:11:49.760 You can't have a conspiracy here because nobody agreed to do anything that would have caused death.

01:11:56.320 But I think this should be a homicide investigation and the effort should be to see whether there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt that any individual engaged in manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, improper use of a gun.

01:12:09.620 But this is a homicide scene, not an accident scene.

01:12:13.100 And just to, you know, you're pointing out to get conspiratorial, but I guess we don't really know.

01:12:17.360 I mean, who knows whether somebody intentionally manipulated that gun, that the armorer wasn't union.

01:12:23.860 Yeah, I'm not impugning the union, but I'm just saying that would not be a voluntary manslaughter.

01:12:30.280 That would be murder.

01:12:31.040 But, you know, let's not presume anything.

01:12:34.400 Yeah, there's no there's no evidence that somebody intentionally tampered with a gun to create a murder. 1.00

01:12:38.960 Stupidity and malevolence. 1.00

01:12:40.260 I always opt for stupidity. 1.00

01:12:42.380 That's been my experience over time. 1.00

01:12:44.480 So in New Mexico, where this happened, they don't have a negligent homicide charge.

01:12:48.600 It would be involuntary manslaughter.

01:12:49.860 That means a person engages in a lawful act, but unintentionally kill someone in a negligent way or in a way not using due care.

01:13:01.060 It's a fourth degree felony.

01:13:02.440 You could get up to 18 months of prison slash probation.

01:13:06.360 So I do wonder, because you've got the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.

01:13:11.280 She would have been responsible for the gun initially. 0.91

01:13:13.060 She but then it was the assistant director, David Halls, who was apparently overseeing a series of onset mishaps with that gun and admits he did not check the the you're supposed to check the barrel and or the I actually don't know the word.

01:13:27.360 But you're supposed to check the bullets and look at each one of the six bullets.

01:13:30.860 And he admits he didn't.

01:13:32.420 And that's that's how he missed the live round.

01:13:35.180 What do you think?

01:13:36.120 I mean, do you think in a normal case that didn't involve celebrities, they would even be considering charging somebody here?

01:13:42.820 Oh, I think you have to consider charging.

01:13:45.200 The circumstances are such that you have to presume that there was a crime here in New Mexico.

01:13:52.540 Yes, negligence is enough, but it has to be a higher level of negligence than the ordinary civil negligence.

01:13:57.860 There's also another statute, a gun negligence statute, which creates a minor misdemeanor.

01:14:04.980 And that also requires a degree of negligence higher than a simple tort negligence.

01:14:11.000 So if you ask me in the end, do I think they're going to be criminal charges?

01:14:14.140 I think it's going to be very hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any particular person engaged in criminal negligence.

01:14:21.140 But the investigation ought to be a homicide investigation.

01:14:24.680 Mm hmm. And it's it's tricky because you're going to have everybody for the listening audience.

01:14:29.340 I'm pointing to my left and my right, but you're going to have everybody pointing at each other.

01:14:32.200 It was him. It was her. It was, you know, it was his fault, including folks are going to point at Alec Baldwin in two different roles.

01:14:38.320 Number one, he was this is according to Zack Knight, a pyrotechnic and special effects engineer who's a member of Local 44.

01:14:45.540 He said this is to the Daily Mail. He said Baldwin ignored the golden rule of gun safety by pointing the prop at someone.

01:14:51.560 The gun never should have been loaded, obviously, with live ammunition.

01:14:54.960 But he says every single person on a movie set has a right to inspect the weapon before it's fired.

01:15:00.860 And there's no reason to ever put a person in front of a weapon that's firing.

01:15:05.400 Anytime you see a movie where the barrel is pointed down the camera lens, there should not be an operator behind it.

01:15:09.280 And so apparently what they normally do is they train actors. You never just in cases, God forbid, something like this were to happen.

01:15:16.760 You know, you just never know. You just never point your gun at a real person on set.

01:15:23.440 And so Alec Baldwin is not off the hook legally yet. And this may explain his demeanor.

01:15:28.640 Of course, the shock of having taken a woman's life, even inadvertently, has got to be overwhelming.

01:15:34.080 Here he was this weekend in Manchester, Vermont, with his wife, Hilaria, dealing with the paparazzi who got him to make some comments. Listen.

01:15:42.380 I've been ordered by the sheriff's department in Santa Fe. I can't answer any questions about the investigation. I can't.

01:15:49.220 It's an active investigation in terms of a woman dying. She was my friend. She was my friend.

01:15:55.480 The day I arrived in Santa Fe to start shooting, I took her to dinner with Joel, the director.

01:16:01.800 We were a very, very, excuse me. We were a very, very, you know, well-oiled crew shooting a film together.

01:16:09.960 And then this horrible event happened. What are the questions that you have other than that?

01:16:13.480 You met with the, I forget her name at the moment, but you met with the family?

01:16:19.580 Yes, I met with the Hudson.

01:16:20.540 If you're spending this much time waiting for us, you should know her name.

01:16:23.120 Her name is Helena.

01:16:24.500 Helena Hutchins. I met with her husband, Matthew, and her son, yeah, that's right.

01:16:27.340 And how does that meeting go?

01:16:30.640 I wouldn't know how to characterize it. They're mortified.

01:16:33.600 You guys, you know what? No details.

01:16:35.780 Do me a favor. I'm going to answer the question.

01:16:39.280 Well, I appreciate that he was probably very upset.

01:16:41.240 The guy is overwhelmed with me. This is something that, you know, there are incidental accidents on film sets from time to time, but nothing like this.

01:16:51.700 This is a one in a trillion episode. It's a one in a trillion film.

01:16:56.060 And so he is in shock. He has a nine-year-old son.

01:17:00.240 You know, we are, you know, in constant contact with him.

01:17:02.840 Would you ever work on another film set that involves firearms of that nature?

01:17:06.900 I couldn't answer that question. I really don't have any, I have no sense of it at all.

01:17:10.060 I do know that an ongoing effort to limit the use of firearms on film sets is something I'm extremely interested in.

01:17:17.340 Do you think production will start up again on that?

01:17:19.060 No, I don't. So just do me a favor.

01:17:20.640 You know, my kids are in the car crying.

01:17:23.280 Because you guys are following them and we know.

01:17:24.920 As a courtesy to you, I came to talk to you.

01:17:26.880 I'm not allowed to comment on the investigation.

01:17:28.720 I talk to the cops every day.

01:17:30.320 My point is that, I'm just asking, we sat down as a courtesy now to talk to you.

01:17:35.040 Now please, would you just not follow us for the rest of it?

01:17:36.840 Just go home.

01:17:37.900 We gave you everything we could possibly give you.

01:17:39.460 Thank you.

01:17:40.280 Condolences. Thank you.

01:17:42.540 Now turn it off.

01:17:44.300 Okay. I have a couple of thoughts that I'll just make on my own.

01:17:46.660 You don't have to own these.

01:17:47.620 But the fact that he keeps shutting his wife up is just classic Alec Baldwin.

01:17:51.940 The fact that she tries to inject herself in every two minutes is classic Hilaria Baldwin, 1.00

01:17:56.200 who did the fake accent and pretended that she was Latina and she's not. 1.00

01:18:00.580 She almost slipped into her Latina accent there at the end.

01:18:03.420 Careful observers will hear her.

01:18:05.080 And the fact that he actually stopped and spoke with the paparazzi was not smart.

01:18:09.620 They follow you.

01:18:11.120 This is what they do.

01:18:12.360 But I don't think he should have been speaking at all.

01:18:14.320 I do think he got a couple of colonels in there, Alan, legally, that were probably intentional.

01:18:19.540 Like, this was a very, very well-oiled crew.

01:18:23.680 That's not what the news reports say.

01:18:26.220 That's going to hurt him.

01:18:27.460 That's going to hurt him.

01:18:28.320 This was not a well-oiled set.

01:18:30.480 This was a set filled with problems.

01:18:33.700 And if I were a prosecutor, I would have welcomed that statement as subject to cross-examination.

01:18:41.440 The other point is that he's not allowed to speak.

01:18:43.960 Of course, he's allowed to speak.

01:18:45.120 The sheriff can't stop you from speaking.

01:18:46.620 The sheriff has told him not to speak.

01:18:48.380 And either you speak or you don't speak.

01:18:50.240 But you don't go and speak a little bit and then say you can't answer the hard questions.

01:18:56.200 So I think it was a mistake for him to have allowed himself to be interviewed.

01:19:01.460 So he could get sued.

01:19:03.200 I mean, because the civil lawsuits, 100 percent are coming.

01:19:05.820 I mean, that's no money.

01:19:07.720 Yeah, that's a guarantee.

01:19:08.640 So how does that play out?

01:19:09.580 Because he he does raise a good point.

01:19:12.020 This is one in a trillion episode.

01:19:13.760 All right.

01:19:14.120 Now, I mean, it's not unheard of, as you pointed out at the beginning of this talk.

01:19:17.160 But it's extremely rare to be seeing something like this.

01:19:20.560 So I think that does help all involved.

01:19:22.280 You know, there's probably a reason the assistant director was lax in checking the gun, the armorer.

01:19:27.240 We have yet to hear her full story.

01:19:29.200 And Alec Baldwin, everyone's on there assuming there is zero chance there's a live round in this gun.

01:19:35.820 Does that help them as a civil matter?

01:19:38.820 It does.

01:19:39.720 It helped us a lot in the case involving John Landis.

01:19:44.820 We were able to prove that helicopters having their rudder delaminated had never happened before.

01:19:51.220 And the jury acquitted on that ground.

01:19:52.860 This is different.

01:19:54.160 There have been accidents involving guns.

01:19:56.680 And that's why you have to take such extraordinary precautions.

01:20:00.480 And if they didn't take all the precautions, then the one in a million, one in a billion doesn't operate.

01:20:06.000 The one in a million operates when the precautions are taken.

01:20:09.320 It doesn't operate when an assistant director hands you a gun saying it's a cold gun without having personally inspected it.

01:20:17.300 So I think he made a terrible mistake by talking about well-oiled.

01:20:21.620 It wasn't well-oiled.

01:20:23.260 It was a disaster.

01:20:24.760 And we know that people walked off in advance.

01:20:27.160 We know that there were complaints.

01:20:29.020 We hear that there were other incidents involving guns.

01:20:32.340 And we know that although killings are very rare, accidents involving guns are not that rare.

01:20:38.000 People get hurt by the percussion sound, by the blast.

01:20:43.480 There should never be a firing, even of blanks, on a set.

01:20:47.540 Everything should be CGI.

01:20:49.120 And if that means that one or two percent less realistic, too bad.

01:20:54.480 You sacrifice realism for life.

01:20:56.400 What about I think the reason he said that is because he's not just on that set as Alec Baldwin, the actor.

01:21:03.400 He's there as a producer.

01:21:05.080 So this is in part his production.

01:21:07.120 I don't know.

01:21:07.680 Generally, when you're Alec Baldwin, you get your name on there as a producer, even though you might not actually be the one who has effective control.

01:21:14.340 But I have heard reports that he did have control on this set and that people were very wary of upsetting him and so on.

01:21:19.080 And so I felt like that very, very well oiled crew was in his with his producer hat on, not wanting to get sued as the man, one of the men or women ultimately responsible for all the mistakes on the set.

01:21:31.540 He can't really win this by pointing at the assistant director because he's got a higher role.

01:21:36.160 He's not going to win this, first of all, civilly, because even if it was the assistant director of this in tort law responding at the superior, you're responsible for the people that you hired.

01:21:47.080 And so although his role as a producer was probably nominal, civil liability, if I were his lawyers, I'd be moving to settle immediately with payments of extraordinary amounts of money.

01:22:00.120 There's no way he can win a civil case.

01:22:02.920 But I think none of that necessarily leads to criminal liability.

01:22:07.920 So I think there will be a distinction.

01:22:09.880 But I hope that the fact that there might not be criminal liability will not affect the changes in the future.

01:22:17.320 The key is the future.

01:22:18.700 No real gun should ever be allowed on a set, period.

01:22:22.240 End of the sentence.

01:22:23.620 Every gun should be fake and every blast should be done by CGI.

01:22:28.260 You cannot allow real guns on a set.

01:22:30.720 And here there was rumors that there was hunting off the set.

01:22:33.480 You just can't do it.

01:22:34.840 It has to be 100 percent clear, 100 percent certain, no guns, no real guns on the set, even with blanks.

01:22:41.660 Remember that Brendan Lee was killed by a blank.

01:22:45.080 There was a blank in the gun.

01:22:48.180 And the blank had a little bit of a shard from a previous bullet.

01:22:52.100 And the shard, the tiny little shard, severed his aorta and killed him. 1.00

01:22:56.420 And that couldn't have been anticipated, which is why the defense won that case.

01:23:01.640 But once you know that, that's not an excuse the next time around.

01:23:06.260 42-year-old woman who was killed.

01:23:08.280 She's got a nine-year-old son.

01:23:09.320 I mean, it's just terrible that, you know, that was no good.

01:23:12.120 That was no good at all.

01:23:13.160 This poor woman. 1.00

01:23:14.660 Anyway, we'll continue to watch that and see what happens.

01:23:16.460 Now, on to Andrew Cuomo, our last topic.

01:23:19.300 He has been, well, charged.

01:23:22.600 The sheriff is charging him.

01:23:24.520 But the D.A. is saying, I am surprised I was not involved, which is very weird.

01:23:30.420 But the charge is forcible touching of a young woman named Brittany Camiso, who I'll put it in her words. 0.99

01:23:38.420 This is what she says Andrew Cuomo did to her.

01:23:40.500 You should know that the governor, now former, denies it.

01:23:43.140 Here she was speaking to CBS.

01:23:44.180 And the hugs at first were hugs.

01:23:47.880 And then they were hugs when he would pull me close to the point where he could feel my breast on his chest.

01:23:55.640 I then felt, while taking the selfie, his hand go down my back, onto my butt, and he started rubbing it.

01:24:06.420 Not sliding it. 0.66

01:24:08.200 Not, you know, quickly brushing over it. 0.99

01:24:12.080 Rubbing my butt. 0.98

01:24:14.020 And did you ask him, what are you doing? 0.99

01:24:17.040 Well, this was while I was taking the selfie.

01:24:19.960 I became so nervous that my hands were clearly shaking.

01:24:23.200 Came back to me.

01:24:25.000 And that's when he put his hand up my blouse and cupped my breast over my bra.

01:24:30.100 So forcible touching is a misdemeanor in the state of New York.

01:24:33.300 It involves touching one for the purpose of degrading or abusing her or for the purpose of gratifying one's sexual desire.

01:24:41.700 He says it never happened.

01:24:42.700 And she says she's got proof that she was at the governor's mansion on the day in question in December a few years ago.

01:24:49.280 And he says all your corroborating evidence shows is that you were in and out of the mansion as part of your job.

01:24:55.220 That's nothing.

01:24:56.200 Quote, this did not happen.

01:24:58.160 Your thoughts on how this is going to play out?

01:25:00.520 Well, first of all, we have to ignore anything that Letitia James has done, her report completely.

01:25:05.980 She is an opportunist who decided to run for governor. 0.62

01:25:09.120 And she decided to get rid of Cuomo as governor because he would have been reelected.

01:25:14.200 So, A, she should never be allowed to run for governor.

01:25:17.360 B, her report should be totally dismissed because it was so biased and so involved in a conflict of interest.

01:25:24.920 What it ends up being is a pure he said, she said case.

01:25:29.740 There's no corroboration.

01:25:31.180 The proof only establishes what Cuomo admits.

01:25:34.600 And that is that she was there.

01:25:36.280 She was there from time to time.

01:25:37.440 She may have been there on the day that she claims this happened.

01:25:40.580 I don't know how to assess that.

01:25:42.660 She has a story.

01:25:44.500 He has a denial.

01:25:46.260 If there's no further corroboration, that's the way it will go to a jury.

01:25:51.460 And but no, the thumb of should not be put on the scale based on Letitia James.

01:25:58.340 What she did was an absolute disgrace.

01:26:01.480 Remain in the case and file a report, completely one-sided report, intending to use the report to run for governor.

01:26:10.540 That's just not the way the legal system should operate.

01:26:13.240 Well, I admitted my bias on this because one of my closest friends, Janice Dean, really wanted Cuomo gone and did a great job of calling attention to the nursing home scandal, which is really what should have done it.

01:26:23.380 But I also say I have to say, I believe Brittany Camiso.

01:26:26.000 I don't question her.

01:26:27.280 I think she seemed very credible to me.

01:26:29.660 Her story aligns very well with that of the stories of many other women.

01:26:33.020 This guy's got a pattern.

01:26:34.220 He's a lech. 0.98

01:26:35.040 That's how he looks to me.

01:26:35.840 I'm glad he's out of office.

01:26:37.460 Criminal liability.

01:26:39.060 That's going to be a tough nut to crack.

01:26:41.840 But I always love talking to Alan Dershowitz about everything.

01:26:44.320 Agree or disagree.

01:26:45.300 Great, great insights and great television, as always.

01:26:48.420 Great to see Alan.

01:26:49.400 Thank you so much.

01:26:50.540 Tomorrow.

01:26:51.220 I love these guys.

01:26:52.340 The cast from Ruthless, a great podcaster, going to be with us for the first time.

01:26:56.180 In the meantime, go check us out on YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly. 1.00

01:26:59.220 You got to check out my being attacked by a bird clip from Friday and download the show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify and Stitcher.

01:27:05.480 See you tomorrow.

01:27:05.840 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:27:09.660 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 01, 2021

VA Gov Race Ramifications and Texas Abortion Case Before SCOTUS, with Rich Lowry and Alan Dershowitz ｜ Ep. 193

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