The Megyn Kelly Show - Wesley Yang on Weaponized Fragility, Policing Debate Out of Existence, and The Successor Ideology

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.500 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.300 That dress?

00:00:21.080 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.800 Stop wondering.

00:00:27.000 Start winning.

00:00:27.940 Winners.

00:00:28.520 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.220 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.980 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.800 Today, Wesley Yang.

00:00:48.380 If you don't know him,

00:00:50.020 you're gonna love him in about two minutes.

00:00:53.380 And I hope you spend the entire time listening to

00:00:56.420 what for us was a longer interview.

00:00:59.020 It was almost two hours.

00:01:00.460 But pick, choose any part of it.

00:01:02.340 Listen to all of it.

00:01:03.280 You will love it and you will love him.

00:01:05.220 Because this is the guy.

00:01:07.040 At the end of our interview, I called him the Dr. House of wokeism.

00:01:10.420 He's the guy who can diagnose it.

00:01:12.260 He's the guy who will explain to you how we got here.

00:01:14.100 He says he's not an activist.

00:01:16.660 So he's not the guy who's actually gonna fight it or show us how.

00:01:20.160 He's not, as he says, a Chris Ruffo.

00:01:21.960 But he's the guy who shows us how they seize these institutions,

00:01:26.180 how they've shamed the majority,

00:01:28.340 which includes black people, brown people, white people.

00:01:31.680 There's very few people who are on board with this crazy woke ideology,

00:01:35.360 how they've shamed all those other groups into silence.

00:01:39.260 It was a fascinating discussion.

00:01:41.080 I said to my husband, Doug, last night, I'm like,

00:01:42.720 you know, the thing about Wesley Yang is

00:01:43.920 when he talks,

00:01:45.820 you can never accurately anticipate the end of a sentence.

00:01:49.620 There's very few people you can say that about.

00:01:51.980 He's just got different ideas.

00:01:54.200 He goes to different places.

00:01:55.340 He's done so much research.

00:01:56.580 He can take you to all different kinds of examples

00:01:58.700 that support the point he's making.

00:02:00.240 And I learned so much.

00:02:02.060 I said to my team when we just wrapped the interview,

00:02:04.560 I don't remember an interview in which I've said less,

00:02:07.420 which is a great sign, right?

00:02:08.760 It's a great sign because the guest is just on a roll.

00:02:11.340 You know, he was wonderful to listen to.

00:02:13.880 You're gonna love him.

00:02:14.700 He's coming up in one minute.

00:02:16.580 He is the author of the bestselling book,

00:02:19.180 The Souls of Yellow Folk.

00:02:21.320 Grew up in New Jersey, went to Rutgers,

00:02:23.840 wound up becoming a very successful writer,

00:02:26.020 both with this book and work for publications

00:02:28.140 like New York Magazine, Tablet, Esquire.

00:02:31.000 Now he's got a very successful Substack series

00:02:33.520 called Year Zero, and you've got to support him.

00:02:37.100 And just a quick note before we start the show,

00:02:39.860 you know, we've been putting out four shows a week

00:02:41.820 this summer, which has been great.

00:02:43.820 We've been doing really well,

00:02:45.000 and we appreciate you guys listening to it

00:02:46.560 and also upping our YouTube presence.

00:02:49.060 So if you want to see any of these, you know,

00:02:50.220 clips from some of our right now, it's just clips.

00:02:52.240 Soon it will be the whole show.

00:02:53.220 But go to YouTube.com forward slash Megan Kelly.

00:02:55.840 But this week, in advance of our big launch on Sirius,

00:02:59.140 which happens on September 7th,

00:03:00.620 we're going to cut back to just two episodes a week,

00:03:03.840 two episodes this week and two episodes next week,

00:03:06.300 because my team is overwhelmed with tons of work getting ready.

00:03:10.220 We've got to do dress rehearsals and all this stuff.

00:03:12.480 So I'm going to take a little bit of, not a break,

00:03:16.260 but we're going to be focused on other stuff

00:03:17.920 so that we don't totally fuck up to Sirius launch.

00:03:21.960 Anyway, just want to give you that heads up.

00:03:24.160 Quick ad, and then Wesley Yang.

00:03:26.160 I am an admirer of yours.

00:03:34.340 I feel like every once in a while,

00:03:35.960 you get sort of these people with an extra dose of wisdom,

00:03:39.900 and they get sprinkled throughout society.

00:03:42.220 When you stumble on one of them,

00:03:43.700 you hold on to it like a newfound jewel.

00:03:46.440 And you are one of those people.

00:03:48.160 And just in getting ready for this interview,

00:03:49.620 I was like, what is it in Wesley's background

00:03:51.960 that made him able to see and understand

00:03:55.200 in such a profound way what's happening in our society?

00:03:59.300 I think I get it on a gut level,

00:04:01.020 but I could never have articulated it the way that you do.

00:04:04.120 Do you know what the answer to that is?

00:04:05.940 What is it about your background

00:04:07.420 that made you so capable of seeing what's going on right now?

00:04:11.440 Well, so, you know, I am the child of immigrants.

00:04:17.760 Both of my parents came here in the 1950s.

00:04:20.380 My mother was, you could, she was a refugee,

00:04:25.900 and she was leaving, you know, sort of fleeing the Korean War,

00:04:29.420 which had, you know, destroyed her, you know, destroyed her family.

00:04:38.160 You know, she saw her brother killed by what was called family fire,

00:04:42.680 sort of, and by friendly fire,

00:04:45.380 her American forces confused him for the enemy.

00:04:49.260 And they bombed out both of their houses.

00:04:53.200 And so she was reduced from, you know,

00:04:56.960 prosperity relative to that time in Korea

00:04:59.580 to pauperdom and working in an orphanage.

00:05:03.620 And her ability to come to the United States

00:05:08.940 was something of a fluke

00:05:10.780 because back then the policy of the country,

00:05:14.080 as it had been for nearly 100 years,

00:05:16.100 had been almost entire, you know,

00:05:20.620 you could not really legally immigrate from Asia,

00:05:23.640 you know, until 1965.

00:05:27.080 And, you know, she taught the orphans

00:05:31.480 in the school how to sing and dance.

00:05:34.580 And a visiting, you know,

00:05:38.400 a group of American dignitaries,

00:05:39.920 including an American general,

00:05:41.080 were so moved by what they saw

00:05:42.600 that they wanted to know who had done this.

00:05:44.680 And it turned out to be my mother,

00:05:46.120 who was 15 or 16 at the time.

00:05:50.260 And various arrangements were made.

00:05:52.680 The general first wanted to adopt her.

00:05:54.880 That wasn't possible administratively,

00:05:57.180 but there were a couple of women

00:05:58.320 who were working in a civilian capacity

00:06:00.800 and they managed to sponsor her

00:06:05.440 and bring her over to the United States.

00:06:08.120 So, you know, I'm a first-generation immigrant.

00:06:12.280 My parents were born in 1930s

00:06:14.060 in a career that had been annexed by Japan.

00:06:19.740 And, you know, I grew up

00:06:21.720 a pretty unremarkable

00:06:24.080 sort of suburban American adolescence.

00:06:26.780 And, you know, the American suburbs

00:06:29.480 were the product of something that,

00:06:33.820 you know, when people talk,

00:06:35.840 when people talk about this thing

00:06:37.580 called structural and systemic racism,

00:06:40.040 they mean something like the suburbs, right?

00:06:42.640 They mean,

00:06:43.300 they mean like

00:06:44.780 areas that were built

00:06:47.340 under the pressure of integration

00:06:51.040 and which was a two-sided thing.

00:06:55.240 It also involved

00:06:56.320 enormous,

00:06:58.000 you know, spikes in crime

00:07:00.900 that happened in the cities.

00:07:04.160 But, you know,

00:07:04.900 they're talking about

00:07:05.680 areas that were built,

00:07:08.760 you know, largely to,

00:07:10.860 you know, produce a certain

00:07:12.500 racialized outcome, right?

00:07:17.160 And I grew up

00:07:18.480 sort of

00:07:19.000 in the midst of that.

00:07:21.040 On the one hand,

00:07:22.020 on the other hand,

00:07:22.780 there was

00:07:23.360 consciousness of the

00:07:24.920 civil rights movement,

00:07:25.640 but there was little consciousness

00:07:26.860 of how

00:07:27.400 recently America had changed.

00:07:30.860 So, you know,

00:07:32.340 I grew up

00:07:34.140 sort of

00:07:35.280 in college

00:07:37.100 encountering,

00:07:38.560 you know,

00:07:39.540 and grappling with

00:07:40.460 in a very serious way

00:07:41.540 many of the ideas

00:07:42.480 that took a couple of decades

00:07:44.240 to come to fruition,

00:07:45.500 to turn into activist movements,

00:07:46.860 and then to go mainstream.

00:07:48.740 And so I'm deeply familiar

00:07:49.980 here with the ideas.

00:07:51.160 And I'm also deeply familiar,

00:07:52.760 if you look at the essays

00:07:54.840 that are collected in my book,

00:07:56.680 with the sort of

00:07:57.920 complex of emotions

00:07:59.380 that are driving

00:08:00.300 this thing that

00:08:01.980 some refer to as

00:08:02.960 wokeism,

00:08:03.420 that I call

00:08:03.820 the successor ideology,

00:08:04.840 because they have to do

00:08:06.520 with

00:08:06.940 people's feelings

00:08:08.700 and their emotions,

00:08:09.440 and the sense

00:08:11.240 of being outsiders

00:08:12.280 and not included

00:08:13.240 within the mainstream

00:08:13.900 of American life.

00:08:14.840 And it's that

00:08:16.240 sort of sense

00:08:17.460 that

00:08:18.620 results in

00:08:20.440 the kind of

00:08:20.920 widespread

00:08:21.660 acceptance

00:08:22.720 among some

00:08:23.800 of

00:08:24.900 certain ideas

00:08:26.400 and certain remedies

00:08:27.260 and certain ways

00:08:28.640 to go about

00:08:29.520 fixing society.

00:08:31.760 And a lot of that

00:08:32.700 kind of,

00:08:33.360 you know,

00:08:34.040 vibrates through

00:08:34.740 some of my earlier work.

00:08:36.120 And there is a moment

00:08:37.260 where

00:08:37.800 those ideas

00:08:39.340 which I had grappled

00:08:41.020 with

00:08:41.320 in the 90s

00:08:42.460 sort of

00:08:43.020 came to prominence

00:08:44.540 within the media sphere.

00:08:45.900 They took over

00:08:46.340 the culture industry

00:08:47.280 and they've become

00:08:48.240 increasingly

00:08:49.000 influential

00:08:51.380 within Democratic Party

00:08:52.980 under the Trump years.

00:08:54.980 They radicalized

00:08:56.440 at the same time

00:08:57.460 as they became

00:08:58.100 mainstream.

00:09:00.600 And

00:09:01.020 because of my

00:09:03.500 very familiarity

00:09:04.500 with those things,

00:09:05.900 you know,

00:09:06.200 it put me in a position

00:09:07.060 to be able to

00:09:07.620 critically examine them

00:09:08.920 and

00:09:10.400 to,

00:09:11.440 you know,

00:09:11.700 to come up with,

00:09:13.040 you know,

00:09:13.820 what I'm still

00:09:15.020 kind of working out

00:09:15.960 as the right

00:09:16.600 response to them.

00:09:18.780 But,

00:09:19.340 you know,

00:09:19.500 the response

00:09:19.960 that I arrive at

00:09:21.020 is that,

00:09:22.020 you know,

00:09:23.360 we have to kind of

00:09:24.220 understand what's

00:09:25.420 driving it

00:09:26.020 and we have to

00:09:26.920 acknowledge

00:09:28.120 that there are

00:09:28.580 problems that are,

00:09:29.480 that we are

00:09:30.020 attempting to solve

00:09:31.040 by an adoption

00:09:32.380 of a political program

00:09:33.480 that calls for

00:09:34.340 the,

00:09:34.720 you know,

00:09:36.020 the gerrymandering

00:09:37.120 of various outcomes

00:09:38.940 by race.

00:09:39.600 and having

00:09:40.780 done that,

00:09:41.480 we then have

00:09:42.240 to be able

00:09:42.600 to exercise

00:09:43.220 judgment

00:09:43.720 and say

00:09:44.120 whether this

00:09:44.620 vision for the

00:09:45.240 country is the

00:09:45.820 right vision

00:09:46.260 for the country.

00:09:47.560 And,

00:09:48.060 you know,

00:09:48.320 I come to the

00:09:50.060 conclusion that

00:09:50.580 the answer is no,

00:09:51.900 but,

00:09:52.340 you know,

00:09:53.200 I tried to bring

00:09:54.420 some of my past

00:09:55.260 experiences as a

00:09:56.240 writer and a

00:09:56.760 person and as a

00:09:58.200 non-white person

00:09:59.700 living in this

00:10:00.240 country and

00:10:01.520 grown in this

00:10:02.440 country,

00:10:02.840 you know,

00:10:04.940 to bear

00:10:06.480 on the manner

00:10:08.200 in which I

00:10:08.740 addressed those

00:10:09.260 questions.

00:10:10.740 So,

00:10:10.880 would you say

00:10:11.560 that when you

00:10:12.060 were younger

00:10:12.820 and you were

00:10:13.260 grappling with

00:10:13.780 this,

00:10:13.960 because I've

00:10:14.340 read you,

00:10:14.820 you know,

00:10:15.000 you felt,

00:10:15.620 you felt yourself

00:10:16.500 like a bit

00:10:17.000 of a misfit,

00:10:18.200 like you

00:10:19.360 didn't belong.

00:10:20.940 So,

00:10:21.540 would the younger

00:10:22.540 you,

00:10:23.080 the 1990s,

00:10:24.180 you have been

00:10:25.900 attracted to

00:10:26.700 wokeism?

00:10:27.540 I don't think

00:10:28.700 I would have

00:10:29.320 been.

00:10:29.580 There's just

00:10:29.980 something a

00:10:31.500 little contrary

00:10:32.280 in my nature

00:10:33.680 where when,

00:10:34.940 when you have

00:10:35.440 people repeating

00:10:37.140 slogans and

00:10:38.260 so on,

00:10:38.720 it would have

00:10:39.460 turned me off

00:10:40.340 then as it

00:10:41.140 does now.

00:10:42.320 And I

00:10:42.880 definitely remember

00:10:43.540 sort of

00:10:43.900 encountering,

00:10:44.820 you know,

00:10:45.020 reading Susan

00:10:45.700 Sontag's essay

00:10:46.860 where she wrote

00:10:47.780 the famous

00:10:48.280 line,

00:10:49.640 you know,

00:10:50.160 that because

00:10:51.000 all of this

00:10:51.500 has a long

00:10:52.700 pedigree,

00:10:53.580 it just became

00:10:54.840 mainstream very

00:10:55.740 recently,

00:10:56.960 of, you know,

00:10:57.360 the white race

00:10:58.080 is the cancer

00:10:58.820 of human history

00:10:59.580 and thinking,

00:11:01.820 you know,

00:11:02.260 wondering if I

00:11:02.800 thought that was

00:11:03.260 right.

00:11:04.300 And,

00:11:04.700 and thinking,

00:11:05.860 no,

00:11:06.000 actually,

00:11:06.340 no,

00:11:06.480 I don't

00:11:06.680 think that's

00:11:07.060 right.

00:11:08.400 And yet,

00:11:09.200 I understood

00:11:09.740 the underlying

00:11:10.460 idea behind it,

00:11:12.320 right?

00:11:12.560 I mean,

00:11:12.840 there,

00:11:13.060 there's a,

00:11:13.640 there's a

00:11:14.220 civilization that

00:11:15.200 expanded,

00:11:16.060 that did so

00:11:17.160 through the

00:11:17.540 force of

00:11:17.900 violence,

00:11:18.360 and,

00:11:19.080 and that,

00:11:20.200 and that

00:11:20.520 tended to

00:11:21.360 disrupt

00:11:22.000 traditional ways

00:11:23.160 of being

00:11:23.580 as their

00:11:24.120 own,

00:11:24.820 as the

00:11:25.360 sort of

00:11:25.980 European ways

00:11:26.620 of being

00:11:26.960 had themselves

00:11:28.120 been disrupted,

00:11:29.180 and that

00:11:29.940 this entailed,

00:11:31.340 you know,

00:11:32.340 physical violence,

00:11:33.380 it also

00:11:33.800 entailed a

00:11:34.300 kind of

00:11:34.620 conceptual

00:11:35.020 violence.

00:11:36.960 And,

00:11:37.540 and I

00:11:38.900 understood all

00:11:39.480 of that,

00:11:39.920 and yet

00:11:40.220 the,

00:11:40.640 the kind

00:11:41.240 of,

00:11:41.860 the,

00:11:44.040 turning that

00:11:44.620 into a dogma,

00:11:45.500 and turning that

00:11:46.180 into a dogma that

00:11:46.900 would be a basis

00:11:47.460 of a politics,

00:11:48.260 I didn't,

00:11:49.220 you know,

00:11:49.640 I rejected it

00:11:50.740 even then,

00:11:51.200 and there

00:11:53.200 was,

00:11:53.620 there were,

00:11:55.400 you know,

00:11:55.980 a lot of the

00:11:56.940 press at the

00:11:57.380 time,

00:11:57.640 the serious

00:11:58.080 intellectual press

00:11:58.880 like Harper's

00:11:59.520 and the New

00:11:59.800 Republic,

00:12:00.700 grappled with

00:12:01.840 these questions,

00:12:02.520 and they

00:12:03.560 grappled with

00:12:04.120 them in ways

00:12:04.660 that I found

00:12:05.200 to be persuasive.

00:12:06.520 And so there's

00:12:06.940 an essay from

00:12:07.400 1996 that ran

00:12:08.540 in the New

00:12:08.840 Republic by,

00:12:09.820 by a guy called

00:12:10.460 Jeffrey Rosen,

00:12:11.520 who sort of

00:12:12.820 looked at the

00:12:13.780 O.J. Simpson

00:12:14.360 trial,

00:12:15.000 and he argued

00:12:15.880 that this trial

00:12:16.760 is actually a

00:12:18.360 instantiation of

00:12:20.140 the basic ideas

00:12:21.060 underlying this

00:12:21.880 newfangled

00:12:22.580 intellectual trend

00:12:23.580 within the

00:12:24.000 academy called

00:12:24.580 critical race

00:12:25.140 theory,

00:12:26.000 right?

00:12:26.280 And very

00:12:27.420 recently,

00:12:28.100 you know,

00:12:28.340 sort of the

00:12:28.600 New Republic

00:12:28.940 came into

00:12:29.500 new ownership,

00:12:30.140 and there was

00:12:31.080 an essay by,

00:12:33.300 that they ran

00:12:33.760 in their very

00:12:34.120 first issue,

00:12:34.760 sort of repudiating

00:12:35.680 the old New

00:12:36.400 Republic as a,

00:12:38.040 you know,

00:12:38.360 kind of like

00:12:38.780 racist,

00:12:39.280 white supremacist,

00:12:40.240 patriarchal

00:12:40.940 publication,

00:12:42.540 that specifically

00:12:44.020 singled that essay

00:12:44.900 out as a kind

00:12:45.740 of example of

00:12:47.060 how wrong the

00:12:48.660 old New Republic

00:12:49.240 was,

00:12:49.660 and I went

00:12:51.220 back to the

00:12:51.660 essay and I

00:12:52.060 looked back

00:12:52.440 at it,

00:12:52.800 and it was

00:12:54.100 a very

00:12:54.380 interesting and

00:12:54.920 very intelligent

00:12:55.440 essay.

00:12:55.940 It suggested

00:12:57.040 that this idea

00:12:57.860 of differential

00:12:58.460 justice,

00:13:00.020 that there are

00:13:00.980 no longer

00:13:01.460 impartial standards

00:13:02.360 that can be

00:13:02.820 applied,

00:13:03.920 you know,

00:13:05.260 was actually

00:13:06.340 very well done

00:13:07.000 and actually

00:13:07.380 seemed,

00:13:07.960 you know,

00:13:08.560 quite convincing

00:13:09.200 to me that

00:13:10.120 if this doctrine

00:13:12.380 were to be

00:13:13.440 embedded,

00:13:14.300 you know,

00:13:14.980 as the basis

00:13:15.560 of public law

00:13:16.500 or as the

00:13:17.400 basis of

00:13:17.880 governance,

00:13:18.440 right,

00:13:19.520 we would be

00:13:20.140 departing

00:13:20.800 from,

00:13:21.420 you know,

00:13:22.960 from the

00:13:23.860 hard-won,

00:13:25.160 you know,

00:13:26.280 legacy of

00:13:28.040 what,

00:13:29.580 you know,

00:13:29.840 took hundreds

00:13:30.320 of years,

00:13:31.000 beginning with

00:13:31.500 the Magna

00:13:31.860 Carta,

00:13:32.420 right,

00:13:32.880 for us to

00:13:34.160 construct,

00:13:35.420 and so

00:13:38.300 I was

00:13:40.840 persuaded at

00:13:41.440 the time,

00:13:42.000 it was an

00:13:43.540 intellectual

00:13:43.960 movement that

00:13:44.700 seemed to be

00:13:45.300 on the margins

00:13:45.840 of academia,

00:13:47.120 not part of

00:13:47.720 the mainstream

00:13:48.180 of either,

00:13:49.420 even the left

00:13:50.260 itself,

00:13:50.880 because there

00:13:51.300 was a concerted

00:13:52.060 movement among

00:13:52.660 leftists at

00:13:53.220 the time to

00:13:53.840 hold it at

00:13:54.900 bay,

00:13:55.920 it seemed to

00:13:56.760 go kind

00:13:57.680 of in

00:13:58.900 abeyance

00:13:59.460 in terms of

00:14:00.300 public,

00:14:01.360 in terms of

00:14:01.920 the public

00:14:02.260 conversation,

00:14:03.580 the aughts

00:14:04.240 were consumed

00:14:05.240 with,

00:14:05.840 you know,

00:14:06.560 the war on

00:14:06.960 terror,

00:14:07.240 then the

00:14:07.460 financial crisis,

00:14:08.420 and then we

00:14:08.720 had the

00:14:08.960 Obama

00:14:09.240 presidency,

00:14:10.360 and toward

00:14:11.260 the end

00:14:11.760 of that

00:14:12.040 presidency,

00:14:13.060 you know,

00:14:13.480 activist

00:14:13.860 movements

00:14:14.700 suddenly

00:14:16.040 emerged

00:14:16.720 that kind

00:14:18.900 of brought

00:14:20.320 these ideas

00:14:20.900 that had

00:14:21.160 been percolating

00:14:21.980 slowly

00:14:23.040 through various

00:14:24.780 institutions,

00:14:26.000 you know,

00:14:26.280 through the

00:14:27.480 educational system,

00:14:28.860 I mean,

00:14:29.560 among,

00:14:30.160 especially the

00:14:31.240 education schools,

00:14:32.340 which teachers

00:14:33.560 and administrators

00:14:34.240 are educated,

00:14:35.580 and the ideas

00:14:36.260 that one had

00:14:36.820 encountered in

00:14:37.380 the 1990s

00:14:38.260 and rejected

00:14:39.660 ultimately as

00:14:40.380 the wrong

00:14:41.020 path,

00:14:42.220 suddenly then

00:14:43.840 emerged all

00:14:44.340 at once

00:14:44.860 as the

00:14:46.800 kind of

00:14:47.240 new ruling

00:14:48.100 orthodoxies

00:14:49.060 within the

00:14:50.800 cultural,

00:14:51.660 you know,

00:14:52.320 within the

00:14:52.700 culture industries

00:14:53.520 and increasingly,

00:14:55.220 you know,

00:14:56.120 within the

00:14:57.060 sort of

00:14:57.480 functionaries

00:14:57.980 of the

00:14:58.220 federal

00:14:58.440 government,

00:14:59.220 and in

00:15:00.280 all other

00:15:00.700 sort of

00:15:01.000 non-profit

00:15:01.560 entities

00:15:02.020 that share

00:15:02.860 in what

00:15:03.460 is increasingly

00:15:04.220 a single

00:15:05.320 sensibility,

00:15:06.220 a single

00:15:06.560 consciousness,

00:15:07.420 there's a

00:15:07.820 new language

00:15:08.560 that is being

00:15:09.060 spoken,

00:15:10.360 you know,

00:15:11.220 including,

00:15:11.640 you know,

00:15:12.380 as we

00:15:12.820 know,

00:15:13.240 the sort

00:15:13.520 of House

00:15:13.800 of Representatives

00:15:14.420 recently issued

00:15:16.420 a directive

00:15:17.540 saying that

00:15:18.040 we're going

00:15:18.280 to remove

00:15:18.840 gender-specific

00:15:19.740 language,

00:15:20.300 such as

00:15:20.600 mother and

00:15:21.000 father,

00:15:21.880 when we

00:15:22.120 talk about

00:15:22.520 families,

00:15:23.740 but that

00:15:24.940 was presaged

00:15:25.980 by struggle

00:15:28.880 sessions

00:15:29.440 throughout the

00:15:30.140 non-profit

00:15:30.580 sector,

00:15:31.180 such as,

00:15:32.280 you know,

00:15:32.600 whether Planned

00:15:33.480 Parenthood was

00:15:34.260 going to be,

00:15:35.360 you know,

00:15:36.460 a heavily

00:15:36.820 politicized

00:15:37.460 movement,

00:15:38.060 A,

00:15:38.320 and whether

00:15:38.740 it was going

00:15:39.520 to think

00:15:41.420 of itself

00:15:41.960 as an

00:15:43.220 institution

00:15:43.680 that was

00:15:44.940 in the

00:15:45.180 service of

00:15:45.560 women,

00:15:46.060 right,

00:15:46.940 as opposed

00:15:47.460 to people

00:15:48.820 who menstruate,

00:15:50.320 pregnant people,

00:15:51.800 other forms,

00:15:53.260 right,

00:15:53.860 other forms

00:15:54.820 of language

00:15:55.600 suggesting

00:15:56.380 that it is

00:15:57.580 or sort

00:15:58.120 of enacting

00:15:59.080 the dogma

00:15:59.480 that is

00:15:59.760 politically

00:16:00.120 incorrect

00:16:00.760 to say

00:16:01.160 that it is

00:16:01.440 women who

00:16:01.900 get pregnant,

00:16:02.980 right,

00:16:03.300 because sort

00:16:05.020 of,

00:16:05.880 you know,

00:16:06.680 right,

00:16:07.880 and so

00:16:09.140 there's this

00:16:09.860 new language

00:16:11.300 that is,

00:16:12.320 I think it's

00:16:12.900 perplexing to

00:16:13.860 most people

00:16:14.540 that encounter

00:16:15.240 it,

00:16:16.280 and it's

00:16:18.460 also,

00:16:19.000 it has a

00:16:19.660 coercive edge

00:16:20.220 to it,

00:16:20.720 right,

00:16:20.920 so it's

00:16:21.220 perplexing to

00:16:21.860 them,

00:16:22.040 but it also

00:16:22.660 comes with

00:16:23.940 the voice

00:16:24.300 of authority

00:16:24.840 because it

00:16:25.860 is organs

00:16:26.420 that have

00:16:26.740 been invested

00:16:27.200 with authority

00:16:27.740 that speak

00:16:28.300 with it,

00:16:29.280 and there

00:16:30.520 is danger,

00:16:31.560 and so as a

00:16:32.200 result,

00:16:32.520 we have

00:16:33.200 we have

00:16:34.100 polls,

00:16:34.960 you know,

00:16:35.640 showing that

00:16:36.960 62% of the

00:16:37.840 American public

00:16:38.640 you know,

00:16:40.860 doesn't,

00:16:41.680 you know,

00:16:42.400 hides their

00:16:42.860 true public

00:16:43.640 opinions for

00:16:44.300 fear of,

00:16:46.380 and so this

00:16:47.000 is a way

00:16:47.780 of going

00:16:48.160 about producing

00:16:48.800 cultural change

00:16:49.740 and a way

00:16:50.760 of going

00:16:51.180 about producing

00:16:51.700 political change

00:16:52.780 that ultimately

00:16:54.820 the last decade

00:16:56.420 we've seen

00:16:57.180 the,

00:16:59.080 we've seen

00:16:59.540 the results

00:17:00.000 of it,

00:17:00.260 we've seen

00:17:00.520 the power

00:17:00.960 of it,

00:17:01.280 and we've

00:17:02.240 also seen

00:17:02.920 the tremendous

00:17:04.360 backlash that

00:17:05.200 it can produce

00:17:05.940 and we see

00:17:07.540 how rapidly

00:17:09.180 you can

00:17:09.620 polarize a

00:17:10.320 society in

00:17:11.040 just a few

00:17:11.620 years through

00:17:12.460 a certain

00:17:14.300 kind of

00:17:14.880 heavily

00:17:15.720 moralized

00:17:16.580 and politicized

00:17:17.680 approach to

00:17:19.260 thinking about

00:17:19.740 things,

00:17:20.140 and so what

00:17:20.520 begins very

00:17:21.080 simply,

00:17:22.200 so I want

00:17:22.640 to give you

00:17:22.900 a simple

00:17:23.200 example,

00:17:23.660 like in

00:17:23.900 2015,

00:17:25.900 the University

00:17:27.400 of Maryland's

00:17:28.680 diversity

00:17:29.120 office,

00:17:29.560 so sort

00:17:29.940 of mid-level

00:17:31.120 minor

00:17:31.580 functionaries

00:17:32.400 within the

00:17:33.060 diversity

00:17:33.540 bureaucracy

00:17:34.160 that has

00:17:34.720 been created

00:17:35.220 in just a

00:17:35.780 few years

00:17:36.140 ago,

00:17:37.220 you know,

00:17:37.700 decreed that

00:17:38.360 the correct

00:17:39.000 term to

00:17:39.540 refer to

00:17:41.020 people residing

00:17:43.520 within the

00:17:43.880 United States

00:17:44.360 who are not

00:17:44.720 citizens and

00:17:45.840 who do not

00:17:46.980 have a legal

00:17:47.480 status as

00:17:48.740 permanent

00:17:49.580 residents or

00:17:50.140 otherwise,

00:17:50.900 is undocumented

00:17:52.080 citizens,

00:17:53.220 right?

00:17:53.380 And so,

00:17:53.940 in language,

00:17:56.220 undocumented

00:17:56.780 citizens?

00:17:58.400 Yes,

00:17:58.740 right,

00:17:58.940 so that's a

00:17:59.660 paradox,

00:18:00.120 right?

00:18:00.640 But it's a

00:18:02.340 paradox that

00:18:03.600 has a

00:18:05.860 purpose and

00:18:06.940 that enacts

00:18:07.620 in the

00:18:08.400 medium of

00:18:09.280 language an

00:18:11.160 opening of

00:18:11.560 our borders,

00:18:12.540 right?

00:18:13.160 Right,

00:18:13.460 right.

00:18:13.980 Simply by

00:18:15.040 policing that

00:18:15.820 term and

00:18:16.320 saying this

00:18:16.680 is the

00:18:16.960 correct term

00:18:17.600 and using

00:18:19.840 a different

00:18:20.260 term is a

00:18:21.040 kind of

00:18:21.660 microaggression

00:18:22.620 or something

00:18:23.440 for which

00:18:24.000 you can

00:18:25.100 be reported

00:18:26.060 or scrutinized.

00:18:28.140 They have

00:18:28.940 already initiated

00:18:30.200 a whole

00:18:30.680 political project

00:18:31.440 that lies

00:18:31.820 behind it,

00:18:32.700 right?

00:18:32.940 And of

00:18:33.200 course,

00:18:33.460 and now

00:18:33.920 there are

00:18:34.660 some cities

00:18:36.260 in California

00:18:37.300 and other

00:18:38.000 sort of

00:18:38.340 progressive

00:18:38.720 cities that

00:18:39.980 are talking

00:18:40.360 about extending

00:18:41.340 voting rights

00:18:42.000 to the

00:18:42.640 undocumented,

00:18:43.520 right?

00:18:44.360 And so

00:18:47.080 this is a

00:18:48.260 moralized,

00:18:50.320 administrative,

00:18:51.160 bureaucratized

00:18:52.360 way of

00:18:52.920 saying we're

00:18:53.300 not going

00:18:53.560 to have

00:18:53.780 the debate,

00:18:54.300 we're going

00:18:54.480 to police

00:18:54.880 the debate

00:18:55.300 out of

00:18:55.680 existence even

00:18:57.120 before any

00:18:57.620 of you know

00:18:57.940 that a

00:18:58.200 debate exists.

00:18:59.180 Oh,

00:18:59.360 I like that.

00:19:00.120 I want to

00:19:00.580 remember that.

00:19:01.140 We're not

00:19:01.400 going to

00:19:01.600 have the

00:19:01.940 debate,

00:19:02.320 we're going

00:19:02.540 to police

00:19:03.100 the debate

00:19:03.720 out of

00:19:04.200 existence

00:19:04.680 before you

00:19:05.320 even know

00:19:05.960 it's on

00:19:07.040 the table.

00:19:07.720 That's so

00:19:08.320 well said.

00:19:09.020 That's exactly

00:19:09.820 what's happening.

00:19:11.060 Right.

00:19:11.380 And so the

00:19:11.760 answer is

00:19:12.340 supplied to

00:19:13.240 you and

00:19:13.900 then consequences

00:19:15.060 real or

00:19:16.060 imagined and

00:19:16.620 in many cases

00:19:17.240 all too real

00:19:18.140 are there for

00:19:19.260 those who

00:19:19.580 take the

00:19:19.920 contrary opinion.

00:19:20.760 everybody else

00:19:22.260 remembers,

00:19:23.500 oh,

00:19:23.860 you know,

00:19:24.200 I am a

00:19:24.840 citizen of

00:19:25.980 a sovereign

00:19:26.460 entity and

00:19:27.620 that entity

00:19:28.340 by virtue

00:19:29.760 of being

00:19:31.320 a nation

00:19:32.020 state,

00:19:32.700 right,

00:19:32.960 has the

00:19:33.340 right to

00:19:33.800 let in

00:19:34.260 or keep

00:19:35.500 out whom

00:19:36.560 it chooses,

00:19:37.580 right?

00:19:39.040 That was

00:19:39.800 that most

00:19:40.920 people think

00:19:41.420 that that's

00:19:41.760 right.

00:19:42.940 That has

00:19:43.660 always been

00:19:44.160 the case

00:19:44.540 until very

00:19:45.020 recently.

00:19:45.520 we have

00:19:48.380 enacted a

00:19:48.960 kind of

00:19:49.240 opening of

00:19:49.900 our border

00:19:50.380 in thought

00:19:51.040 and then

00:19:52.100 we make

00:19:52.540 it so

00:19:52.960 that nobody

00:19:54.040 who wants

00:19:54.500 to be a

00:19:55.140 part of

00:19:55.440 the conversation

00:19:56.140 is able to

00:19:57.620 take a

00:19:57.960 contrary

00:19:58.240 position that

00:19:59.560 they are

00:19:59.900 immediately seen

00:20:00.660 as suspects,

00:20:01.720 right?

00:20:01.940 And so no

00:20:02.620 one within

00:20:03.060 the political

00:20:03.540 class represents

00:20:04.460 that position

00:20:05.180 and if it

00:20:05.620 turns out

00:20:06.240 as often

00:20:07.000 to be the

00:20:07.720 case,

00:20:08.360 oh,

00:20:08.500 it's actually

00:20:08.840 like a

00:20:09.360 fairly popular

00:20:10.000 position that

00:20:10.760 like we can

00:20:11.360 have a

00:20:12.140 border and

00:20:13.120 we can

00:20:14.140 keep out

00:20:15.960 some people

00:20:16.880 if we want

00:20:17.440 to and we

00:20:17.860 can let in

00:20:18.320 some people

00:20:18.760 if we want

00:20:19.280 to.

00:20:19.960 Like it's

00:20:20.400 part of the

00:20:21.000 legitimate

00:20:21.280 function of

00:20:21.940 a nation

00:20:22.220 state to

00:20:22.840 define the

00:20:24.500 difference

00:20:24.820 between a

00:20:25.260 citizen and

00:20:25.660 a non-citizen

00:20:26.280 and in

00:20:27.800 fact that

00:20:28.140 is what

00:20:28.920 makes a

00:20:29.360 nation state

00:20:29.840 a nation

00:20:30.220 state.

00:20:32.000 If nobody

00:20:33.360 in the

00:20:34.080 political

00:20:34.420 class or

00:20:35.060 the chattering

00:20:35.480 class is

00:20:36.160 willing to

00:20:36.820 represent that

00:20:37.420 position but

00:20:38.040 there's 30

00:20:38.820 to 45%

00:20:40.420 of the

00:20:40.680 country that

00:20:41.240 believes that

00:20:42.240 to be true

00:20:42.780 or even

00:20:43.220 more of the

00:20:44.020 country that

00:20:44.400 believes that

00:20:44.740 to be true

00:20:45.220 then that

00:20:46.100 creates an

00:20:46.580 opening for

00:20:47.600 someone from

00:20:48.400 outside of

00:20:49.040 the political

00:20:49.500 or chattering

00:20:50.120 classes to

00:20:50.860 emerge and

00:20:52.860 represent this

00:20:53.860 thing that is

00:20:54.300 unrepresented.

00:20:55.480 So it's this

00:20:56.420 problem of

00:20:57.160 what's called

00:20:57.780 preference

00:20:58.860 falsification,

00:20:59.840 right?

00:21:00.440 You create

00:21:00.940 these systems.

00:21:02.480 Preference

00:21:02.720 falsification,

00:21:03.820 right?

00:21:04.000 So there's a

00:21:04.460 theory that

00:21:06.060 in repressive

00:21:08.160 systems that

00:21:09.820 impose consequences

00:21:11.160 on people who

00:21:11.880 take the

00:21:12.200 wrong positions

00:21:13.020 only the

00:21:15.500 quote-unquote

00:21:16.640 right positions

00:21:17.460 are going to

00:21:17.820 be represented

00:21:18.700 by people

00:21:20.400 in suits

00:21:21.200 who are

00:21:23.120 authoritative

00:21:23.600 figures within

00:21:24.400 political parties

00:21:25.720 and on the

00:21:27.520 media.

00:21:28.860 These other

00:21:29.900 things go

00:21:30.400 unrepresented

00:21:31.120 but there's a

00:21:34.340 false, but

00:21:35.440 that consensus

00:21:37.160 that we see

00:21:37.760 represented is a

00:21:38.800 false consensus

00:21:39.480 and that

00:21:40.020 creates an

00:21:40.480 opening for

00:21:41.460 the demagogue

00:21:42.640 to come along

00:21:43.880 and be like,

00:21:44.360 oh, I'm going

00:21:44.660 to represent

00:21:45.020 this thing

00:21:45.480 that other

00:21:45.920 people are not

00:21:46.440 willing to

00:21:46.740 represent.

00:21:47.420 And in many

00:21:47.800 cases, that

00:21:49.480 position may

00:21:51.360 actually be the

00:21:51.900 correct position,

00:21:52.680 right?

00:21:53.080 Like if we were

00:21:53.740 to have that

00:21:54.160 debate, we

00:21:54.700 might decide,

00:21:55.340 oh, yeah,

00:21:55.700 you know, we're a

00:21:56.260 nation-state, we

00:21:56.840 have borders, it's

00:21:57.540 okay to police

00:21:58.300 those borders,

00:21:59.260 right?

00:21:59.560 And not only

00:22:03.140 might that

00:22:04.080 thing prevail

00:22:05.400 politically, it

00:22:06.120 might be the

00:22:06.520 correct position,

00:22:07.620 right?

00:22:07.920 But we have

00:22:08.520 ruled out the

00:22:09.820 possibility of

00:22:10.620 deliberation and

00:22:11.720 debate.

00:22:12.600 And so the

00:22:13.000 impossibility of

00:22:13.880 us to have a

00:22:14.400 real deliberation

00:22:16.380 or debate is

00:22:17.520 one of the

00:22:17.860 reasons as a

00:22:18.500 serious intellectual

00:22:19.220 who wants to

00:22:20.040 get to the

00:22:20.840 root of things

00:22:21.560 that I

00:22:23.360 oppose this

00:22:24.980 kind of

00:22:25.440 politics.

00:22:27.100 Up next,

00:22:28.120 how things

00:22:28.600 have gotten

00:22:28.900 so nuts that

00:22:29.960 we took a

00:22:30.380 system called

00:22:31.080 blind auditions

00:22:32.280 in the

00:22:32.920 orchestra world

00:22:33.720 and decided

00:22:34.880 that they

00:22:35.160 were racist.

00:22:36.520 Heather

00:22:36.880 McDonald

00:22:37.240 mentioned this,

00:22:37.980 Wesley's got

00:22:38.400 some more on

00:22:38.960 it, and

00:22:39.340 we'll get

00:22:39.640 into that

00:22:40.080 and Kendi

00:22:40.660 in one

00:22:41.360 minute.

00:22:45.580 When I

00:22:46.140 talk about

00:22:46.500 successor

00:22:46.820 ideology, to

00:22:47.440 give you an

00:22:47.820 example,

00:22:48.880 something

00:22:49.160 happened in

00:22:50.200 the 80s

00:22:50.960 and 90s,

00:22:52.300 orchestras,

00:22:53.660 we're talking

00:22:54.180 about like,

00:22:54.840 you know,

00:22:55.520 orchestras that

00:22:56.160 play classical

00:22:57.960 music.

00:22:58.240 they had a

00:23:00.540 diversity

00:23:00.880 problem.

00:23:01.700 They were

00:23:01.960 too white,

00:23:02.400 they were

00:23:02.540 too male,

00:23:03.400 and so what

00:23:04.420 we're going

00:23:04.640 to do is

00:23:05.300 we're going

00:23:05.700 to have

00:23:06.100 blind

00:23:06.400 auditions,

00:23:07.600 right?

00:23:08.720 And we're

00:23:10.260 not going

00:23:10.580 to allow

00:23:11.180 our biases

00:23:12.180 based upon

00:23:12.960 knowing the

00:23:13.420 identity of

00:23:14.160 the player

00:23:14.700 to affect

00:23:16.260 our judgment.

00:23:17.140 We're only

00:23:17.660 going to hear

00:23:18.100 the way they

00:23:18.580 play, and

00:23:19.080 on the basis

00:23:19.600 of what we

00:23:20.100 hear and

00:23:20.720 not what we

00:23:21.240 see of who

00:23:21.980 the player

00:23:22.340 is, are

00:23:23.800 we going

00:23:24.260 to arrive

00:23:25.800 in our

00:23:26.100 decision.

00:23:27.540 And moving

00:23:28.740 to blind

00:23:29.460 auditions was

00:23:30.700 a boon to

00:23:32.320 women.

00:23:33.340 It turned

00:23:33.800 out to be

00:23:34.120 the case

00:23:34.680 that unconscious

00:23:36.340 bias based

00:23:37.460 upon seeing

00:23:38.480 a woman

00:23:38.860 versus a

00:23:39.400 man may

00:23:40.760 have been

00:23:41.200 affecting the

00:23:42.220 way people

00:23:42.620 were making

00:23:43.060 choices.

00:23:45.500 But there

00:23:47.120 was recently

00:23:47.700 a piece in

00:23:48.180 the New York

00:23:48.500 Times arguing

00:23:49.380 that we have

00:23:49.820 to end

00:23:50.460 blind auditions

00:23:51.960 because while

00:23:52.600 it did

00:23:52.980 help women,

00:23:54.340 it actually

00:23:55.020 didn't help

00:23:55.660 other

00:23:56.160 underrepresented

00:23:56.920 minorities.

00:23:58.080 And so

00:24:00.080 we have to

00:24:01.600 stop being

00:24:02.160 impartial and

00:24:02.840 only listening

00:24:03.480 to the music

00:24:04.300 and we have

00:24:05.100 to see who

00:24:06.680 it is so

00:24:07.260 we can know

00:24:07.900 who to

00:24:08.340 favor specifically

00:24:09.380 on the basis

00:24:10.180 of their race.

00:24:12.400 And that's

00:24:13.360 the difference.

00:24:14.600 On the one

00:24:14.980 hand, we're

00:24:15.320 saying, well,

00:24:16.100 let's get rid

00:24:16.680 of discrimination

00:24:18.560 and bias.

00:24:20.320 The other

00:24:21.100 hand, we're

00:24:21.600 saying this

00:24:22.780 very move

00:24:23.620 that we

00:24:23.920 made to

00:24:24.380 get rid

00:24:24.660 of discrimination

00:24:25.560 and bias,

00:24:26.720 right, has

00:24:29.040 to be reversed

00:24:30.240 and we have

00:24:30.900 to go back

00:24:31.520 to looking

00:24:32.020 at the

00:24:32.320 color of

00:24:32.720 people's skin

00:24:33.380 in order

00:24:34.060 to equalize

00:24:35.380 outcomes

00:24:35.980 through a

00:24:36.640 political

00:24:36.980 process.

00:24:38.440 And this

00:24:38.860 is this

00:24:39.420 is Kendi,

00:24:40.120 right?

00:24:40.420 The only

00:24:41.140 remedy of

00:24:42.240 past

00:24:42.620 discrimination

00:24:43.180 is present

00:24:44.400 discrimination.

00:24:44.900 Like if

00:24:45.300 the numbers

00:24:46.080 of black

00:24:47.540 and brown

00:24:47.900 people aren't

00:24:48.980 on par

00:24:49.720 with the

00:24:50.240 numbers of

00:24:50.760 white

00:24:50.940 people,

00:24:51.560 it's a

00:24:52.380 racist

00:24:52.660 system and

00:24:54.020 you have

00:24:55.420 to discriminate

00:24:56.040 in order

00:24:56.580 to remedy

00:24:57.060 it.

00:24:57.620 Right.

00:24:58.040 And so

00:24:58.540 that's an

00:24:59.560 example,

00:25:00.160 that's a

00:25:00.480 clear example

00:25:01.060 of one

00:25:01.480 where we're

00:25:02.420 going to

00:25:02.580 try to

00:25:02.880 be more

00:25:03.220 impartial,

00:25:04.080 we're going

00:25:04.420 to remove

00:25:05.200 information

00:25:06.220 about people,

00:25:07.240 you're going

00:25:07.460 to judge

00:25:07.900 them only

00:25:08.560 on the

00:25:08.900 quality of

00:25:09.400 their playing

00:25:10.080 versus

00:25:12.300 we're going

00:25:13.260 to make

00:25:13.480 sure to

00:25:13.780 know who

00:25:14.080 you are

00:25:14.440 so that

00:25:14.760 we can

00:25:15.060 give

00:25:15.560 preferences

00:25:16.760 to people

00:25:19.700 so that

00:25:20.280 we can

00:25:20.780 see them

00:25:21.180 so that

00:25:21.460 we can

00:25:21.700 discriminate

00:25:22.060 in their

00:25:22.460 favor.

00:25:23.360 Can I

00:25:23.920 just add,

00:25:24.580 I want you

00:25:25.400 to continue,

00:25:25.940 but can I

00:25:26.220 just add,

00:25:26.540 it's one

00:25:27.020 thing to

00:25:27.300 see it

00:25:27.520 in an

00:25:27.700 orchestra

00:25:28.000 where maybe

00:25:28.900 the music

00:25:29.300 won't be

00:25:30.320 quite as

00:25:30.820 well played

00:25:31.380 if you

00:25:32.020 don't just

00:25:32.340 go for

00:25:32.640 the most

00:25:33.020 quality

00:25:33.320 players.

00:25:33.920 It's

00:25:34.160 another

00:25:34.440 when you

00:25:34.720 look at

00:25:35.040 a field

00:25:35.400 like

00:25:35.580 medicine,

00:25:36.460 right,

00:25:36.780 or science,

00:25:38.040 like I

00:25:38.340 don't,

00:25:39.260 or pilots

00:25:40.260 as we're now

00:25:40.960 seeing it,

00:25:41.380 Delta.

00:25:41.620 I just

00:25:43.180 want the

00:25:43.440 most

00:25:43.600 qualified

00:25:44.040 surgeon

00:25:44.600 operating

00:25:45.200 on me.

00:25:45.720 I don't

00:25:46.040 care about

00:25:46.760 skin color

00:25:47.420 or lady

00:25:48.060 parts.

00:25:48.700 I care

00:25:49.220 about

00:25:49.440 quality,

00:25:50.300 skill,

00:25:51.260 devotion,

00:25:51.900 training,

00:25:52.620 right?

00:25:52.860 So like

00:25:53.140 this has

00:25:53.980 real life

00:25:54.520 implications

00:25:55.060 as we're

00:25:55.480 seeing across

00:25:56.160 disciplines

00:25:56.620 right now.

00:25:58.040 Right.

00:25:58.260 So there's

00:25:58.580 this deeper

00:25:59.100 underlying

00:25:59.580 question

00:26:00.180 that it

00:26:01.180 was like,

00:26:01.600 well,

00:26:01.900 you know,

00:26:02.100 let's work

00:26:02.560 on the

00:26:03.440 underlying

00:26:04.420 capacity

00:26:05.020 of the

00:26:06.320 group,

00:26:07.280 also their

00:26:08.140 interests and

00:26:09.020 the choices

00:26:09.440 that they

00:26:09.800 make.

00:26:10.480 So there

00:26:10.760 was a

00:26:11.060 there was

00:26:11.340 a great

00:26:11.640 there was

00:26:11.880 a very

00:26:12.060 funny

00:26:12.320 photo that

00:26:13.100 that was

00:26:13.960 announcing the

00:26:14.620 fact that

00:26:15.100 the US

00:26:16.100 math Olympiad

00:26:16.960 team defeated

00:26:18.180 China for the

00:26:18.800 first time in

00:26:19.220 several years,

00:26:19.940 right?

00:26:20.260 And it was a

00:26:21.200 photo of

00:26:21.720 four,

00:26:22.860 I mean,

00:26:23.500 the US,

00:26:24.020 the photo of

00:26:24.400 the US math

00:26:24.980 Olympiad team

00:26:25.460 was a photo

00:26:25.920 of four Chinese

00:26:27.220 guys,

00:26:27.580 right?

00:26:27.800 I think there

00:26:28.260 was also a

00:26:28.720 white guy in

00:26:29.080 the picture.

00:26:30.200 But,

00:26:30.300 but,

00:26:30.700 so that

00:26:32.080 photo,

00:26:32.960 that photo

00:26:35.460 represents

00:26:36.420 actually what

00:26:40.060 it means for

00:26:40.680 diversity

00:26:41.020 to be our

00:26:41.440 strengths,

00:26:42.720 right?

00:26:43.420 Like,

00:26:44.020 we have to

00:26:44.560 be able to

00:26:45.080 see that,

00:26:47.000 you know,

00:26:48.000 cultures,

00:26:50.480 by virtue of

00:26:51.620 making different

00:26:52.240 choices about

00:26:53.000 what people,

00:26:53.900 you know,

00:26:55.040 pursue and

00:26:55.680 are interested

00:26:56.160 in,

00:26:56.740 not just

00:26:57.260 cultures as

00:26:57.820 a whole,

00:26:58.360 as sort of

00:26:59.020 large entities,

00:27:00.180 but specific

00:27:01.740 immigrant cohorts

00:27:02.600 that come here

00:27:03.160 for specific

00:27:03.720 reasons,

00:27:04.980 right,

00:27:05.320 which happen

00:27:05.780 to be,

00:27:06.300 you know,

00:27:06.700 weighted,

00:27:07.060 you know,

00:27:07.260 people are

00:27:07.600 coming from

00:27:08.420 STEM-motivated

00:27:10.080 cultures in

00:27:10.560 the first

00:27:10.860 place,

00:27:11.160 but also

00:27:11.760 people that

00:27:13.440 seek opportunity

00:27:14.460 here that

00:27:15.640 happen,

00:27:16.800 a self-selecting

00:27:17.580 cohort that

00:27:18.040 are also

00:27:18.460 interested in

00:27:19.200 the STEM fields,

00:27:20.620 they're going to

00:27:21.040 result in

00:27:21.540 heavily racially

00:27:22.480 disproportionate

00:27:23.240 outcomes.

00:27:23.680 And this is

00:27:24.360 the problem

00:27:25.860 with the

00:27:27.220 Kendian

00:27:27.560 framework,

00:27:27.980 which says

00:27:28.520 that there

00:27:29.700 will always

00:27:30.180 be a,

00:27:31.280 you know,

00:27:32.380 a distribution

00:27:33.160 that represents

00:27:33.840 the same

00:27:34.300 distribution as

00:27:35.300 the overall

00:27:36.180 U.S.

00:27:36.560 population as

00:27:37.300 a whole in

00:27:38.180 every sector

00:27:39.220 and every

00:27:39.520 corporation.

00:27:40.160 But there

00:27:40.480 should be

00:27:40.680 13% Black

00:27:41.960 membership on

00:27:42.840 that team.

00:27:43.960 And this,

00:27:44.280 of course,

00:27:44.460 is nonsense

00:27:44.840 because throughout

00:27:45.520 Silicon Valley,

00:27:46.360 you have all

00:27:46.760 of these companies

00:27:47.240 putting out these

00:27:47.840 diversity reports

00:27:48.600 saying like,

00:27:49.220 oh,

00:27:49.280 we have,

00:27:49.760 you know,

00:27:49.960 we've made

00:27:50.600 no progress

00:27:51.200 or we've gone

00:27:51.740 backwards on

00:27:52.320 diversity.

00:27:52.700 And all of

00:27:54.480 them show

00:27:55.040 that,

00:27:55.640 you know,

00:27:56.140 Asian Americans

00:27:56.720 are represented

00:27:57.320 at those

00:27:57.700 companies by,

00:27:58.560 at a factor

00:27:59.120 five or six

00:28:00.060 times the

00:28:01.140 representation of

00:28:01.840 Asian Americans

00:28:02.260 in the population.

00:28:03.440 Now,

00:28:03.560 why is that,

00:28:04.240 right?

00:28:04.500 Like,

00:28:04.780 is that,

00:28:05.200 are Asians

00:28:06.020 being favored?

00:28:08.040 Are they a

00:28:08.720 privileged caste

00:28:09.660 that is

00:28:10.100 disproportionately

00:28:11.420 represented at

00:28:12.540 such high numbers

00:28:13.400 at these

00:28:13.720 desirable jobs

00:28:14.880 because of

00:28:17.600 some invidious

00:28:18.380 pro-Asian bias?

00:28:19.380 Of course,

00:28:19.940 that is not

00:28:20.600 the case,

00:28:21.140 right?

00:28:21.440 Like,

00:28:21.780 Asians are

00:28:22.300 represented

00:28:22.840 there relative

00:28:24.440 to the

00:28:26.120 rate at

00:28:26.960 which these

00:28:27.820 people focus

00:28:29.620 on STEM

00:28:30.420 education,

00:28:31.400 prepare themselves

00:28:32.200 with the

00:28:32.640 specific skill

00:28:33.760 sets that are

00:28:34.380 most relevant

00:28:35.560 to these

00:28:36.040 corporations

00:28:36.660 having to do

00:28:38.260 with,

00:28:39.280 you know,

00:28:39.680 I'm not going

00:28:40.100 to say,

00:28:40.580 I'm not going

00:28:40.940 to posit an

00:28:41.540 absolute

00:28:42.100 inferiority or

00:28:44.160 superiority of

00:28:45.100 the culture,

00:28:45.580 which is what

00:28:45.960 they happen to

00:28:46.460 be into,

00:28:47.080 man,

00:28:47.520 right?

00:28:47.720 This is what

00:28:48.180 Victor Davis

00:28:48.680 Hanson has

00:28:49.200 been making

00:28:49.540 this point

00:28:50.000 about American

00:28:51.240 professional

00:28:52.000 basketball teams

00:28:52.700 which are not

00:28:54.220 13% black.

00:28:55.880 And so,

00:28:56.220 under the

00:28:56.540 Kendi rule,

00:28:57.120 do we have

00:28:57.520 to switch

00:28:58.320 it up so

00:28:58.760 that we have

00:28:59.120 more white

00:28:59.580 players?

00:29:00.180 I mean,

00:29:00.780 different people

00:29:01.820 focus on

00:29:02.320 different things,

00:29:03.020 develop different

00:29:03.640 skills.

00:29:04.380 It is in part

00:29:05.280 cultural.

00:29:06.000 It's not all

00:29:06.940 race-based or,

00:29:08.440 you know,

00:29:08.720 just because of

00:29:09.300 the cisgender,

00:29:10.440 heteronormative,

00:29:11.460 whatever it is,

00:29:12.020 you've got the

00:29:12.780 term down.

00:29:13.220 But the new

00:29:15.740 sort of,

00:29:16.400 what is it,

00:29:16.900 successor

00:29:17.240 ideologists just

00:29:19.140 refuse to see it

00:29:19.840 that way.

00:29:20.720 Right.

00:29:20.920 So they have a

00:29:21.800 dogmatic approach

00:29:22.820 to things.

00:29:23.720 And so the

00:29:24.480 aphorism that

00:29:25.380 really captures it

00:29:26.140 best is the

00:29:27.200 statement by a

00:29:27.960 woman named

00:29:28.420 Kimberly Crenshaw,

00:29:30.000 who is,

00:29:30.820 you know,

00:29:31.000 she's a law

00:29:31.820 professor and she

00:29:32.880 coined the term

00:29:33.480 intersectionality.

00:29:34.520 And she said,

00:29:35.280 the question is

00:29:35.960 not whether

00:29:37.040 racism functioned

00:29:38.220 here,

00:29:38.440 but how did

00:29:39.740 racism function

00:29:40.680 here?

00:29:41.080 So we begin

00:29:41.640 from the

00:29:41.960 assumption

00:29:42.260 that racism

00:29:44.780 is there.

00:29:45.760 And it's an

00:29:46.520 overall worldview

00:29:47.300 that proceeds

00:29:47.900 from this idea

00:29:48.640 that we are

00:29:49.980 all,

00:29:50.480 every one of

00:29:50.880 us,

00:29:51.180 subject to a

00:29:51.820 vast socialization

00:29:52.740 project,

00:29:53.600 process,

00:29:54.640 that instills,

00:29:56.160 you know,

00:29:57.200 the biases of

00:29:58.040 race and biases

00:29:58.820 of gender

00:29:59.380 within us.

00:30:01.560 And that

00:30:01.960 society is,

00:30:03.340 you know,

00:30:03.920 a matrix of

00:30:04.600 these interlocking

00:30:05.300 oppressions that

00:30:06.020 work together to

00:30:07.100 favor some and

00:30:08.660 not favor others.

00:30:10.300 We have these

00:30:11.240 clear examples

00:30:12.440 from the

00:30:13.460 worlds,

00:30:14.240 you know,

00:30:15.440 where that

00:30:17.560 deviate from

00:30:19.600 this pattern,

00:30:21.220 you know,

00:30:21.480 especially with

00:30:22.800 the example of

00:30:23.500 the Asian

00:30:23.720 Americans,

00:30:24.080 but not just

00:30:24.480 with the

00:30:24.700 Asian Americans,

00:30:25.420 right?

00:30:25.660 Like this

00:30:26.480 kind of

00:30:26.860 whiteness

00:30:27.420 critique of

00:30:28.480 American society

00:30:29.420 sort of began

00:30:30.300 in the 80s

00:30:30.820 and 90s in

00:30:31.320 academia.

00:30:31.740 It took

00:30:32.340 decades for

00:30:33.040 it to kind

00:30:33.520 of make

00:30:34.240 its march

00:30:34.640 through various

00:30:35.040 institutions

00:30:35.500 and become

00:30:35.980 dominant at

00:30:36.880 precisely the

00:30:37.520 moment where

00:30:38.040 it is provably

00:30:38.880 not true,

00:30:39.640 right?

00:30:39.920 So like,

00:30:40.760 you know,

00:30:41.040 so like the

00:30:41.520 top 10,

00:30:42.860 you know,

00:30:43.520 earning ethnicities

00:30:44.640 in the country,

00:30:46.660 you know,

00:30:47.160 like eight out

00:30:47.880 of nine of

00:30:48.280 them are

00:30:48.500 non-white

00:30:48.920 ethnicities.

00:30:50.600 So,

00:30:50.700 and so,

00:30:52.080 you know,

00:30:52.240 we have this

00:30:52.660 claim that,

00:30:53.360 you know,

00:30:53.680 meritocracy is

00:30:54.480 a myth,

00:30:55.060 meritocracy is,

00:30:57.320 and I'm not

00:30:58.240 saying that we

00:30:58.700 should take a,

00:30:59.820 you know,

00:31:01.820 a simplistic

00:31:02.400 approach to

00:31:03.460 meritocracy.

00:31:04.080 There are many

00:31:04.460 factors,

00:31:05.300 right,

00:31:05.540 other than

00:31:06.260 merit that

00:31:06.860 determine

00:31:07.180 people's

00:31:08.460 outcomes in

00:31:09.440 life,

00:31:09.680 and some

00:31:10.000 of those

00:31:10.540 have to

00:31:11.500 do with

00:31:12.260 like where

00:31:12.640 one comes

00:31:13.080 from,

00:31:13.360 which also

00:31:13.720 is correlated

00:31:14.240 with race

00:31:14.700 and so on

00:31:15.120 and so forth,

00:31:16.220 but the

00:31:16.560 reality is

00:31:17.480 is that

00:31:18.020 the group

00:31:21.900 whose income

00:31:22.380 grew the

00:31:22.760 fastest in

00:31:23.260 America between

00:31:23.780 the years

00:31:24.080 2014 and

00:31:24.760 2019 were

00:31:25.800 Hispanic

00:31:26.220 Americans,

00:31:26.640 and the

00:31:27.660 group whose

00:31:28.000 income that

00:31:28.680 grew the

00:31:29.180 second fastest

00:31:29.820 in those

00:31:30.280 years from

00:31:30.700 a higher

00:31:31.000 base were

00:31:32.380 Asian

00:31:32.620 Americans,

00:31:33.600 and so

00:31:34.160 America's

00:31:35.780 non-white,

00:31:36.440 non-black

00:31:36.760 diversity

00:31:37.380 is the

00:31:40.180 group that

00:31:40.580 is actually

00:31:41.040 most invested

00:31:41.920 in a

00:31:42.760 continuation of

00:31:43.680 systems that

00:31:44.340 are generally

00:31:45.020 meritocratic,

00:31:45.920 that are

00:31:46.180 generally have

00:31:47.100 to do with

00:31:47.740 the status

00:31:48.220 quo,

00:31:48.600 that generally

00:31:49.820 predate the

00:31:51.660 equity agenda.

00:31:52.880 These are the

00:31:53.300 groups that

00:31:53.700 are drawn

00:31:55.980 here by the

00:31:56.820 promise of

00:31:57.380 the system

00:31:57.840 as it

00:31:58.160 exists,

00:31:58.800 and these

00:31:59.320 are the

00:31:59.540 groups that

00:32:00.580 have flourished

00:32:02.280 here as a

00:32:03.160 result of the

00:32:03.760 system as

00:32:04.840 it exists.

00:32:06.000 Okay, but you

00:32:06.440 tell me,

00:32:06.840 because now

00:32:07.600 what we hear

00:32:08.180 from the

00:32:09.000 wokes is

00:32:10.880 they're white

00:32:11.960 adjacent.

00:32:12.880 Once they

00:32:13.320 develop any

00:32:14.020 sort of power,

00:32:14.720 thanks to

00:32:15.060 hard work,

00:32:15.660 thanks to

00:32:16.120 elbow grease,

00:32:17.300 Asians,

00:32:18.580 Hispanics,

00:32:19.320 they're trying

00:32:19.960 to grab

00:32:20.500 these groups

00:32:21.240 into their

00:32:22.480 coalition of

00:32:23.720 aggrieved

00:32:25.320 minorities saying,

00:32:27.380 you belong on

00:32:28.300 our side,

00:32:29.140 and if you

00:32:29.440 disagree,

00:32:30.260 that's because

00:32:30.680 you're white

00:32:31.100 adjacent,

00:32:32.100 and you sort

00:32:32.720 of sold out

00:32:33.160 to the man.

00:32:34.740 So, I

00:32:35.600 mean, this

00:32:36.580 is the whole

00:32:36.960 thing, right?

00:32:37.520 So the

00:32:37.800 whiteness

00:32:38.300 approach to

00:32:39.080 American history

00:32:39.740 says that

00:32:40.640 groups that

00:32:42.920 were not

00:32:43.180 really white,

00:32:44.340 the Germans,

00:32:45.100 the Irish,

00:32:45.780 the Eastern

00:32:47.000 Europeans,

00:32:48.180 that were

00:32:49.720 not, you

00:32:50.480 know, America

00:32:50.780 was at first

00:32:51.300 a white

00:32:51.600 Anglo-Saxon

00:32:52.260 Protestant

00:32:52.700 country.

00:32:53.200 It did not

00:32:53.480 think of

00:32:53.760 itself as

00:32:54.140 otherwise.

00:32:55.100 But by

00:32:55.740 the 1840s,

00:32:57.700 there were

00:32:58.200 as many

00:32:58.600 Catholics as

00:32:59.200 there were

00:32:59.440 Protestants in

00:33:00.140 this country.

00:33:00.620 And so there

00:33:02.080 were successive

00:33:02.560 waves of

00:33:03.200 immigrants that

00:33:04.400 were not a

00:33:05.200 part of the

00:33:06.120 mainstream of

00:33:06.760 American culture.

00:33:08.340 The sort of

00:33:08.800 theory is that

00:33:10.160 they integrated

00:33:11.760 into this thing

00:33:12.680 called whiteness,

00:33:13.560 and they

00:33:13.800 integrated, and

00:33:14.620 in the process

00:33:15.120 they did that by

00:33:15.880 sort of walking

00:33:16.620 over the heads

00:33:18.240 of American

00:33:18.780 Black people.

00:33:19.300 And to

00:33:20.580 some degree

00:33:21.060 there is

00:33:21.400 something to

00:33:21.860 this, you

00:33:22.600 know, sort

00:33:23.000 of as a

00:33:23.400 historical matter.

00:33:25.280 And so the

00:33:25.760 great fear of

00:33:27.540 this movement

00:33:28.020 who see this

00:33:28.780 dimension in

00:33:29.600 American history

00:33:30.220 is that

00:33:30.920 Hispanics and

00:33:32.100 Asians will

00:33:32.920 intermarry,

00:33:34.540 that they will

00:33:35.060 join the

00:33:37.360 white majority

00:33:38.020 as a kind of

00:33:39.580 coalition of

00:33:40.200 the ascendant

00:33:40.720 over Blacks.

00:33:42.580 And so the

00:33:42.940 whole purpose

00:33:43.740 of ethnic

00:33:44.200 studies and

00:33:44.800 the whole

00:33:45.060 purpose of

00:33:45.560 this successor

00:33:46.300 coalition is to

00:33:47.700 disrupt that,

00:33:48.460 right, and to

00:33:48.880 hold on to

00:33:49.380 these groups

00:33:49.940 and create a

00:33:52.060 new governing

00:33:52.660 American majority,

00:33:54.880 part of that

00:33:55.840 governing American

00:33:56.420 majority was

00:33:56.920 also the

00:33:57.560 expansion of

00:33:58.760 kind of the

00:33:59.400 civil rights

00:33:59.980 protected classes,

00:34:02.520 right, to

00:34:03.280 first of all

00:34:05.300 to, you know,

00:34:06.080 LGBTQ and

00:34:07.140 then the

00:34:07.660 expansion of

00:34:08.640 that, so

00:34:09.460 that more and

00:34:10.000 more young

00:34:10.460 people have

00:34:11.200 pathways out

00:34:13.220 of, right,

00:34:14.580 the kind

00:34:16.760 of

00:34:17.360 Eurocentric

00:34:19.180 cis-heteropatriarchal

00:34:20.680 system, right,

00:34:21.840 into new forms

00:34:22.540 of identification.

00:34:23.100 And there's

00:34:23.860 plenty of

00:34:24.780 evidence

00:34:25.200 culturally,

00:34:27.000 you know,

00:34:27.600 because now

00:34:28.160 the percentage

00:34:28.700 of sort of

00:34:29.420 Gen Z

00:34:29.920 who declare

00:34:30.860 themselves some

00:34:31.560 form of

00:34:32.060 queer, right,

00:34:32.700 is up to

00:34:33.320 like 15,

00:34:34.120 20%.

00:34:34.580 This is how

00:34:35.140 we got

00:34:35.420 demisexual.

00:34:36.360 I heard you

00:34:36.760 and Andrew

00:34:37.040 Sullivan talk

00:34:37.580 about this.

00:34:38.040 It's like,

00:34:38.380 yes, you get

00:34:38.880 some weird

00:34:39.400 new term

00:34:39.980 that's not

00:34:40.380 really a

00:34:40.740 thing.

00:34:41.420 You glom

00:34:41.800 onto it so

00:34:42.680 that you

00:34:42.940 sound special

00:34:43.640 or like a

00:34:44.200 minority,

00:34:44.620 and now

00:34:45.320 suddenly you're

00:34:45.820 part of the

00:34:46.340 new coalition,

00:34:47.240 even though

00:34:47.580 you're white

00:34:48.480 as white bread

00:34:49.020 can come.

00:34:50.360 So demisexual

00:34:51.160 was coined,

00:34:52.580 I believe,

00:34:53.140 in 2006

00:34:53.880 on a blog,

00:34:55.520 right,

00:34:55.760 like a live

00:34:56.400 journal,

00:34:56.740 some random

00:34:57.120 person was

00:34:58.160 like,

00:34:58.340 yeah,

00:34:58.520 you know,

00:34:58.840 I have to

00:35:00.460 be emotionally

00:35:01.260 attached to

00:35:02.740 a person

00:35:03.320 to be sexually

00:35:05.380 aroused by

00:35:05.880 them, right?

00:35:06.260 Like,

00:35:06.460 I'm not

00:35:06.700 interested in

00:35:07.140 my next

00:35:07.440 stance.

00:35:07.800 And so

00:35:07.920 basically...

00:35:08.900 I heard

00:35:09.100 Andrew say

00:35:09.580 in your

00:35:09.760 discussion,

00:35:10.240 you mean

00:35:10.660 you're a

00:35:10.960 chick.

00:35:11.980 Right.

00:35:12.420 No,

00:35:12.740 so,

00:35:13.220 you know,

00:35:13.460 we took sort

00:35:14.180 of like being

00:35:14.960 a normal

00:35:15.340 chick and

00:35:15.840 in order

00:35:16.180 to valorize

00:35:17.000 it within

00:35:17.320 the new

00:35:17.600 system,

00:35:17.880 we had

00:35:18.200 to reclassify

00:35:19.400 it as a

00:35:19.780 form of

00:35:20.120 queerness,

00:35:21.120 right?

00:35:21.440 Because

00:35:21.820 queerness

00:35:22.660 now has

00:35:23.460 the sort

00:35:23.780 of mandate

00:35:24.260 of heaven

00:35:24.800 within the

00:35:25.420 system of

00:35:25.880 the successor

00:35:26.380 ideology.

00:35:27.140 That's right.

00:35:27.620 You're special.

00:35:28.000 And so

00:35:28.160 it's like,

00:35:29.380 you know,

00:35:29.720 why is it

00:35:30.340 that people

00:35:30.700 who are

00:35:30.980 concerned

00:35:31.460 with the

00:35:32.560 question of

00:35:33.060 police brutality

00:35:33.880 mostly affecting,

00:35:35.240 you know,

00:35:35.680 sort of young

00:35:36.100 black men

00:35:36.660 still ensconced in

00:35:38.240 the inner

00:35:38.480 cities,

00:35:39.100 why do they

00:35:39.720 have to say

00:35:40.480 our movement,

00:35:42.600 you know,

00:35:42.880 no one is

00:35:43.360 free unless

00:35:44.100 the black

00:35:44.580 trans woman

00:35:45.340 is free,

00:35:45.980 you know,

00:35:46.280 like why do

00:35:46.860 they have to

00:35:47.320 sit like,

00:35:48.140 is that really

00:35:48.740 what 20-year-olds

00:35:50.780 black men living

00:35:51.620 in the inner

00:35:51.940 city really think?

00:35:52.600 Is that a concern

00:35:53.480 of theirs?

00:35:54.080 No,

00:35:54.540 it is not a concern

00:35:55.320 of theirs.

00:35:56.040 But it is a

00:35:56.940 concern of this

00:35:57.840 overall cultural

00:35:59.160 formation,

00:36:00.240 this overall

00:36:00.980 fantasy of

00:36:02.160 oppression,

00:36:03.160 and of the

00:36:04.100 unity of

00:36:04.820 oppression.

00:36:05.180 And so there's

00:36:06.080 this idea

00:36:06.680 that kind

00:36:10.160 of,

00:36:11.320 you know,

00:36:12.040 Ibram X.

00:36:12.560 Kendi was

00:36:13.120 like,

00:36:13.440 you know,

00:36:13.620 unless you're

00:36:14.040 supporting,

00:36:14.720 you know,

00:36:15.000 black trans lives,

00:36:15.740 you're not

00:36:15.960 truly anti-racist,

00:36:17.300 right?

00:36:17.580 Like you cannot,

00:36:18.360 and if you

00:36:19.100 are,

00:36:20.220 and,

00:36:20.980 you know,

00:36:21.200 you can't be

00:36:21.720 anti-racist

00:36:22.420 without,

00:36:22.760 and of course,

00:36:23.800 none of this

00:36:24.220 is true.

00:36:24.560 This is all

00:36:24.980 shown,

00:36:25.800 you know,

00:36:26.200 in the data

00:36:26.800 that,

00:36:27.740 you know,

00:36:28.240 the group in

00:36:29.080 the Democratic

00:36:29.540 coalition who is,

00:36:30.700 you know,

00:36:30.920 who is most

00:36:31.340 skeptical of

00:36:32.060 trans ideology,

00:36:33.200 you know,

00:36:33.500 are black

00:36:34.300 Americans.

00:36:37.000 There's no

00:36:37.560 actual basis

00:36:38.100 for any of

00:36:38.580 this,

00:36:38.780 but it

00:36:39.000 exists as

00:36:39.680 this kind

00:36:40.200 of,

00:36:40.540 it exists

00:36:41.500 as this

00:36:41.820 kind of

00:36:42.120 galvanizing

00:36:42.760 fantasy

00:36:43.400 that has

00:36:44.660 now,

00:36:45.080 that has

00:36:45.600 a,

00:36:45.820 that has

00:36:46.200 a constituency

00:36:47.600 behind it

00:36:48.580 that has

00:36:49.320 power within

00:36:49.960 the actual

00:36:50.520 levers of

00:36:50.960 the Democratic

00:36:51.320 Party,

00:36:51.840 like the

00:36:52.420 young activists

00:36:53.300 who are

00:36:53.980 attracted to

00:36:55.320 these ideas

00:36:55.920 and who base

00:36:56.520 their identity

00:36:57.180 upon it

00:36:57.960 are the

00:36:58.700 ones who,

00:37:00.180 you know,

00:37:00.520 staff Democratic

00:37:01.380 Party campaigns.

00:37:02.640 There was this

00:37:03.100 moment when

00:37:03.760 Elizabeth

00:37:04.120 Warren started

00:37:05.020 to tweet

00:37:06.200 about birthing

00:37:07.500 people and

00:37:08.720 people who

00:37:09.680 menstruate and

00:37:10.360 so on.

00:37:10.920 And it,

00:37:11.700 you know,

00:37:11.960 and of course,

00:37:12.500 you know,

00:37:12.680 everybody who

00:37:13.060 uses the term

00:37:13.920 latinx,

00:37:14.660 and it was so

00:37:15.600 surprising,

00:37:17.100 you know,

00:37:18.000 it was surprising

00:37:18.420 to me.

00:37:19.660 And it's like,

00:37:20.360 well,

00:37:20.460 how did this

00:37:21.180 happen?

00:37:21.480 How is a

00:37:21.820 person who's

00:37:22.380 seeking a

00:37:22.760 broad-based

00:37:23.160 appeal to

00:37:23.800 the,

00:37:24.160 you know,

00:37:24.540 to the

00:37:24.940 American

00:37:25.320 electorate

00:37:25.780 such that

00:37:26.040 they can

00:37:26.260 win the

00:37:26.540 presidency

00:37:26.980 would think,

00:37:29.020 right,

00:37:29.400 that this is

00:37:29.820 the way to

00:37:30.200 do it?

00:37:30.500 And the

00:37:30.720 answer is

00:37:31.140 they live

00:37:31.560 within an

00:37:32.000 echo chamber

00:37:32.540 and an

00:37:34.320 intellectual

00:37:34.740 bubble that

00:37:35.940 is created

00:37:36.420 by their

00:37:36.760 actual

00:37:37.060 staffers,

00:37:37.800 right,

00:37:38.100 like,

00:37:38.560 and that

00:37:39.320 is then

00:37:39.840 in turn

00:37:40.580 sustained by

00:37:41.920 media that

00:37:42.680 is increasingly

00:37:44.740 staffed by

00:37:45.500 those who

00:37:46.040 accept all

00:37:46.880 of this as

00:37:47.220 axiomatic.

00:37:47.860 So not so

00:37:48.280 long ago,

00:37:49.000 there was a

00:37:49.520 news piece

00:37:50.040 published at

00:37:51.520 CNN where

00:37:52.680 they said,

00:37:53.200 like,

00:37:53.300 there's no

00:37:53.640 way to,

00:37:54.280 there's no

00:37:54.680 commonly agreed

00:37:55.580 upon way to

00:37:56.220 determine the

00:37:57.700 sex,

00:37:58.440 not the

00:37:58.700 gender,

00:37:59.060 the sex of

00:38:00.140 a child

00:38:00.500 at birth,

00:38:01.340 right?

00:38:01.540 This was

00:38:01.900 not an

00:38:02.160 op-ed piece,

00:38:03.000 this was

00:38:03.300 not by

00:38:04.020 some gender

00:38:04.520 studies

00:38:04.820 professor,

00:38:05.220 this was

00:38:05.500 by one

00:38:06.360 of their

00:38:06.600 young

00:38:06.920 reporters

00:38:07.460 stating as

00:38:08.600 fact,

00:38:09.500 right,

00:38:09.840 that there

00:38:10.060 was no

00:38:10.480 agreed upon

00:38:11.060 way to

00:38:12.000 determine the

00:38:12.700 sex of

00:38:13.020 someone at

00:38:13.320 birth.

00:38:14.200 And that

00:38:17.340 represents,

00:38:19.180 A,

00:38:20.240 the,

00:38:20.600 you know,

00:38:22.020 the echo

00:38:22.660 chamber

00:38:23.080 sensibility

00:38:23.760 that has now

00:38:24.300 been created

00:38:24.900 among a

00:38:25.400 certain cohort

00:38:25.840 of young

00:38:26.140 people,

00:38:26.620 and then

00:38:26.960 the kind

00:38:28.100 of capture

00:38:28.640 that echo

00:38:29.140 chamber

00:38:29.420 sensibility

00:38:30.000 by organs

00:38:30.620 of the

00:38:30.860 media,

00:38:31.500 which in

00:38:31.800 turn represents

00:38:32.340 the capture

00:38:32.860 of that echo

00:38:33.400 chamber

00:38:33.680 sensibility

00:38:34.380 capturing the

00:38:35.640 Democratic Party

00:38:36.260 at large.

00:38:37.920 And now we

00:38:39.500 have this

00:38:39.740 question.

00:38:40.160 Interesting,

00:38:40.480 because I was

00:38:40.920 going to ask

00:38:41.380 you,

00:38:41.640 who's in

00:38:42.420 control,

00:38:42.940 right?

00:38:43.100 Like who's

00:38:43.440 in,

00:38:43.700 who's running

00:38:44.040 central command?

00:38:45.480 And it's

00:38:46.220 dispersed,

00:38:46.800 I think is what

00:38:47.280 you're saying.

00:38:47.760 It's,

00:38:47.980 it's young

00:38:48.420 people throughout

00:38:48.980 the Democratic

00:38:49.540 coalition,

00:38:50.240 the universities,

00:38:51.120 the media.

00:38:52.040 It's not like

00:38:52.460 there's one

00:38:53.000 guy behind the

00:38:53.820 curtain saying,

00:38:54.540 and now we

00:38:55.200 will go by,

00:38:55.880 by the way,

00:38:56.240 I didn't know

00:38:56.600 it was Latinx,

00:38:58.420 but there's

00:38:59.200 not one guy

00:38:59.860 doing that.

00:39:00.560 It's,

00:39:00.900 it's more

00:39:01.500 dispersed and

00:39:02.140 they're coming

00:39:02.540 up through

00:39:02.940 academia and

00:39:04.120 taking over.

00:39:05.160 It's various,

00:39:05.500 it's various

00:39:06.700 moral entrepreneurs

00:39:07.800 who are

00:39:10.940 paid salaries

00:39:11.720 by state

00:39:12.180 universities to

00:39:13.360 imagine terms

00:39:15.320 like undocumented

00:39:15.980 immigrants and

00:39:17.900 undocumented

00:39:19.480 citizens,

00:39:20.680 undocumented

00:39:20.980 citizens,

00:39:21.760 right?

00:39:22.360 And,

00:39:23.060 and,

00:39:23.600 and whose

00:39:24.400 job is to

00:39:26.340 create an

00:39:28.340 ever more

00:39:28.960 elaborate

00:39:29.580 picture of

00:39:31.960 ways that we

00:39:32.540 can fight

00:39:32.900 oppression.

00:39:34.300 And so,

00:39:35.160 you know,

00:39:35.420 the,

00:39:35.660 the,

00:39:35.940 the theory

00:39:36.440 is,

00:39:36.780 is that the

00:39:37.100 oppression

00:39:37.460 is present

00:39:38.500 at the

00:39:38.840 level of

00:39:39.620 prisons and

00:39:40.380 policing and

00:39:41.220 of murder

00:39:41.880 and brutality,

00:39:42.540 but it's also

00:39:43.540 present in

00:39:44.300 the,

00:39:44.720 you know,

00:39:45.360 the,

00:39:45.540 the color

00:39:46.120 of the,

00:39:46.640 the color

00:39:47.280 of the eye

00:39:47.720 shade at

00:39:48.340 the market,

00:39:48.920 you know,

00:39:49.400 at the,

00:39:49.800 at the makeup

00:39:50.280 counter,

00:39:51.240 you know,

00:39:51.440 the color

00:39:51.840 of a band-aid.

00:39:53.080 And so,

00:39:54.320 and so that

00:39:55.380 was,

00:39:55.660 that whole

00:39:56.600 kind of

00:39:57.000 project of

00:39:57.780 critiquing every

00:39:58.500 aspect of

00:39:59.040 daily life

00:39:59.620 to find all

00:40:00.600 of the

00:40:00.880 hidden kind

00:40:01.740 of racist

00:40:02.180 messaging that

00:40:03.660 is there

00:40:04.120 consciously or

00:40:04.780 unconsciously

00:40:05.540 embedded in

00:40:06.020 the world

00:40:06.260 around us

00:40:06.820 that,

00:40:07.200 that,

00:40:07.720 that inevitably,

00:40:09.060 you know,

00:40:09.420 disadvantages

00:40:09.920 some and

00:40:10.640 helps others,

00:40:12.100 a kind of

00:40:12.540 invisible force

00:40:13.600 that elevates

00:40:14.540 some to power

00:40:16.060 and keeps

00:40:16.540 other down.

00:40:17.920 It's a

00:40:18.540 powerful

00:40:19.000 intellectual

00:40:19.900 framework,

00:40:20.380 but it is

00:40:21.160 above all

00:40:21.880 really productive

00:40:23.140 of discourse,

00:40:24.020 right?

00:40:24.260 And it's

00:40:24.800 a way to

00:40:25.160 like build

00:40:25.700 contents.

00:40:26.860 And so,

00:40:28.000 you know,

00:40:29.340 online news

00:40:31.260 outlets that

00:40:32.100 in the early

00:40:32.800 tens needed

00:40:35.480 to,

00:40:36.540 you know,

00:40:37.500 face the

00:40:37.880 kind of

00:40:38.180 problem with

00:40:39.240 the kind

00:40:39.560 of failure

00:40:40.020 of the,

00:40:41.120 you know,

00:40:41.580 original clickbait

00:40:42.600 media model,

00:40:44.160 you know,

00:40:44.520 needed to hire

00:40:45.160 people for cheap.

00:40:46.160 And so they

00:40:46.520 would take

00:40:46.900 on,

00:40:47.340 you know,

00:40:48.420 young staffers

00:40:49.780 who were full

00:40:50.580 of these ideas.

00:40:51.280 They'd pay them

00:40:51.700 very little,

00:40:52.220 but they would

00:40:52.540 pay them in the

00:40:53.260 kind of moral

00:40:53.760 prestige that

00:40:54.500 came with this.

00:40:55.620 And so it was

00:40:56.000 originally like

00:40:56.660 salon.com and a

00:40:57.520 couple of other

00:40:57.960 publications that

00:40:58.840 started to do this

00:40:59.540 and it became a

00:41:00.060 business model.

00:41:01.580 All of those

00:41:02.320 companies failed,

00:41:03.400 right?

00:41:03.680 Because there was

00:41:04.200 a gigantic glut

00:41:05.300 of these kinds

00:41:06.380 of takes where

00:41:07.100 we,

00:41:07.540 this thing is

00:41:08.020 problematic,

00:41:08.680 that thing is

00:41:09.140 problematic,

00:41:09.760 white supremacy

00:41:10.260 in knitting,

00:41:10.880 white supremacy

00:41:11.320 in pottery,

00:41:12.340 white supremacy

00:41:12.900 in the outdoors.

00:41:14.400 Like that became

00:41:14.920 a kind of

00:41:15.520 content generation

00:41:16.980 machine that

00:41:18.260 generated lots

00:41:19.580 of engagement,

00:41:20.160 not just in the

00:41:21.540 form of like

00:41:22.140 people who are

00:41:22.620 into it,

00:41:23.040 but also

00:41:23.400 through online

00:41:24.900 culture wars,

00:41:25.860 which then like

00:41:27.300 generated this

00:41:29.040 cohort of ironic,

00:41:31.340 but also,

00:41:32.960 you know,

00:41:33.260 pretty messed up

00:41:34.360 young,

00:41:35.300 you know,

00:41:36.240 trolls,

00:41:38.000 which,

00:41:38.520 you know,

00:41:38.780 and all writers

00:41:39.700 and that kind of

00:41:41.520 discourse that rose

00:41:42.280 up in response to

00:41:43.380 this.

00:41:43.720 And they sort of

00:41:44.800 grew in proportion

00:41:46.000 to one another.

00:41:46.740 and then eventually

00:41:48.400 Steve Bannon

00:41:50.340 and the Trump

00:41:50.800 campaign to some

00:41:52.480 degree encouraged

00:41:54.500 or,

00:41:55.120 you know,

00:41:55.540 tapped into

00:41:56.200 support from

00:41:58.180 this cohort.

00:41:59.320 All of it then

00:42:00.080 turned into a

00:42:01.500 kind of narrative

00:42:02.220 of,

00:42:03.020 you know,

00:42:03.300 literal fascists

00:42:04.060 in the White

00:42:04.460 House and then

00:42:05.440 the identification

00:42:06.040 of policies at

00:42:08.580 the border and

00:42:09.160 so on,

00:42:09.880 that,

00:42:10.320 you know,

00:42:10.460 there's this kind

00:42:10.980 of confirmation

00:42:11.560 bias.

00:42:13.160 you know,

00:42:13.340 Trump would say

00:42:13.820 something about,

00:42:15.600 you know,

00:42:15.760 he would call

00:42:16.200 MS-13 animals

00:42:18.260 in the context

00:42:19.280 of,

00:42:20.160 you know,

00:42:21.700 like a specific

00:42:22.460 very grisly murder

00:42:23.440 that they had

00:42:24.040 committed.

00:42:25.600 But,

00:42:26.160 you know,

00:42:26.700 you know,

00:42:26.920 that would be

00:42:27.480 truncated and

00:42:28.320 then,

00:42:28.660 you know,

00:42:29.220 he would be

00:42:30.360 shown to be

00:42:31.420 referring to all

00:42:32.420 of those immigrants

00:42:33.040 as animals and

00:42:34.000 so,

00:42:34.640 you know,

00:42:35.040 literal Nazi in

00:42:35.860 the White

00:42:36.100 House.

00:42:36.820 And so this

00:42:37.140 whole process

00:42:38.000 of what was

00:42:40.020 online beefing,

00:42:41.600 what those of

00:42:42.060 us who had

00:42:42.620 witnessed this

00:42:43.840 online,

00:42:44.400 not just on

00:42:44.860 Twitter,

00:42:45.240 but like the,

00:42:46.020 you know,

00:42:46.520 predecessor all

00:42:47.420 going all the

00:42:47.860 way back to

00:42:48.260 the news

00:42:48.600 groups,

00:42:49.020 there was

00:42:49.420 certain kind

00:42:50.120 of style

00:42:51.300 of online

00:42:52.020 beefing that

00:42:53.340 then Trump

00:42:54.020 kind of tapped

00:42:54.980 into and

00:42:55.820 then brought

00:42:57.480 into the

00:42:58.180 mainstream and

00:42:58.860 brought into

00:42:59.160 the office.

00:43:00.100 And then in

00:43:00.960 response,

00:43:01.840 there was this

00:43:02.740 sense that there

00:43:03.320 was a state of

00:43:03.840 exception that we

00:43:04.540 were under,

00:43:05.300 that the promise

00:43:07.060 of democracy

00:43:07.640 had failed with

00:43:08.620 the election of

00:43:09.460 the demagogue

00:43:10.020 and the sort

00:43:11.960 of usual

00:43:12.360 standards and

00:43:13.200 practices of

00:43:13.960 the media

00:43:14.480 were,

00:43:16.540 you know,

00:43:16.720 would only be a

00:43:17.440 form of colluding

00:43:18.180 with him and

00:43:18.680 they had to,

00:43:19.360 they had to,

00:43:20.140 they had to kind

00:43:21.820 of line up in

00:43:23.460 the war against

00:43:24.100 him and,

00:43:25.560 and,

00:43:25.900 and there was a

00:43:26.560 moral imperative

00:43:27.140 to do all of

00:43:27.700 this and they

00:43:28.200 needed a kind of

00:43:28.980 underlying

00:43:29.640 explanation and

00:43:30.980 there were a

00:43:31.240 couple of

00:43:31.560 different underlying

00:43:32.180 explanations.

00:43:32.840 One of those

00:43:33.220 underlying

00:43:33.520 explanations had

00:43:34.960 to do with,

00:43:36.620 well,

00:43:36.800 you know,

00:43:37.000 let's,

00:43:37.420 let's talk

00:43:38.180 about,

00:43:38.880 you know,

00:43:39.700 what the housing

00:43:40.320 crisis and

00:43:41.480 what,

00:43:41.960 you know,

00:43:42.380 and,

00:43:42.620 and what the

00:43:43.360 policy of opening

00:43:45.040 our economy to

00:43:45.840 China did to

00:43:46.740 the,

00:43:47.020 you know,

00:43:47.380 sort of de-industrialized

00:43:48.360 parts of the

00:43:48.800 country,

00:43:49.140 that was one,

00:43:50.280 you know,

00:43:50.900 left-leaning,

00:43:51.580 but it also had

00:43:52.140 kind of a right

00:43:52.940 populist tint to

00:43:53.960 it,

00:43:54.500 you know,

00:43:54.720 both people

00:43:55.160 would talk about

00:43:55.640 this.

00:43:55.880 And then there

00:43:56.140 was this other

00:43:56.740 idea that like

00:43:57.840 deep underneath

00:43:58.720 it,

00:43:59.920 that Trump was

00:44:00.700 one manifestation

00:44:01.660 of,

00:44:02.700 of,

00:44:03.220 you know,

00:44:03.740 of white supremacy

00:44:04.420 that was,

00:44:05.260 you know,

00:44:06.460 at the,

00:44:07.540 at the very

00:44:07.940 foundation of all

00:44:08.780 the systems of

00:44:09.360 this country.

00:44:10.300 And so there's

00:44:10.760 this great

00:44:11.300 conversation that

00:44:12.500 was leaked

00:44:13.080 between the New

00:44:14.640 York Times's

00:44:15.260 editor,

00:44:16.220 Dean Bacquette

00:44:16.840 in 2019,

00:44:18.360 where a

00:44:20.740 staffer then

00:44:21.580 says,

00:44:22.440 you know,

00:44:23.840 we're having

00:44:24.420 these conversations

00:44:25.160 about what it

00:44:25.880 isn't,

00:44:26.260 isn't racist,

00:44:27.060 but I feel like

00:44:27.620 racism isn't

00:44:28.300 everything.

00:44:29.100 When we report

00:44:29.840 on science,

00:44:30.480 when we report

00:44:30.880 on culture,

00:44:31.780 when we do

00:44:32.500 our national

00:44:33.000 reporting,

00:44:33.520 we have to be

00:44:34.100 looking at the

00:44:34.840 ways that this

00:44:35.500 is at the

00:44:36.300 foundation of all

00:44:37.720 the systems of

00:44:38.420 our society.

00:44:38.880 That was the

00:44:39.400 alternative to

00:44:40.920 the more

00:44:41.360 class-based

00:44:42.300 reckoning with

00:44:43.660 what the Trump,

00:44:45.020 you know,

00:44:46.220 phenomenon meant.

00:44:47.800 And the,

00:44:48.920 the sort of,

00:44:50.220 the great and

00:44:50.800 the good in this

00:44:51.700 society went with

00:44:52.940 option B.

00:44:54.260 And,

00:44:54.840 and it was at

00:44:55.580 that moment,

00:44:56.360 right,

00:44:56.760 that you see Dan

00:44:57.400 Bacquette comes

00:44:58.720 from a,

00:45:00.200 you know,

00:45:00.420 he's the black

00:45:01.220 editor of the

00:45:01.820 New York Times,

00:45:02.420 and he comes

00:45:03.020 from a previous

00:45:04.540 idea of what the

00:45:05.480 role and the

00:45:06.060 vocation of the

00:45:06.660 journalist was.

00:45:07.380 you could see

00:45:08.360 that he's a

00:45:08.860 little wary,

00:45:09.500 his response,

00:45:10.380 he tries to

00:45:10.940 kind of hold

00:45:11.600 at bay,

00:45:12.720 but he also

00:45:13.600 reassures her,

00:45:14.540 and he's like,

00:45:15.180 look,

00:45:15.480 one of the,

00:45:16.720 we did the

00:45:17.720 whole Mueller

00:45:18.180 thing,

00:45:18.960 many people

00:45:19.580 here believe

00:45:20.400 that that was

00:45:20.840 what was going

00:45:21.460 to remove him.

00:45:23.900 Now we're

00:45:24.680 shifting towards

00:45:25.900 looking at the

00:45:26.760 racial dimension,

00:45:27.620 and that shift,

00:45:30.820 which Bacquette

00:45:31.560 attempted to

00:45:32.500 kind of describe

00:45:34.060 in a relatively

00:45:35.640 moderate or

00:45:36.360 neutral way,

00:45:36.980 despite,

00:45:37.660 you know,

00:45:38.100 sort of openly

00:45:39.520 declaring that

00:45:40.680 his,

00:45:41.780 that one of the

00:45:42.720 purposes of the

00:45:43.280 Times is to

00:45:44.040 try to undermine

00:45:44.740 the president

00:45:45.780 through,

00:45:46.540 you know,

00:45:47.180 through an

00:45:48.000 agenda-based

00:45:48.680 focus on race.

00:45:50.600 He still was

00:45:51.760 wary of saying,

00:45:52.720 like,

00:45:52.980 every story has

00:45:53.980 to be a

00:45:54.300 meditation on

00:45:55.100 race,

00:45:55.480 right,

00:45:55.860 and,

00:45:56.680 but such is

00:45:59.040 the underlying

00:45:59.860 momentum of

00:46:00.540 these ideas that

00:46:01.460 when they moved

00:46:02.020 in that direction,

00:46:02.760 they moved

00:46:03.640 there fully,

00:46:04.660 because there's

00:46:05.440 this,

00:46:05.860 there was this

00:46:06.400 kind of ready-to-hand

00:46:07.660 toolkit that

00:46:09.500 they didn't

00:46:10.740 necessarily,

00:46:11.940 they weren't

00:46:12.380 necessarily intending

00:46:13.320 to take up,

00:46:14.420 but,

00:46:14.780 like,

00:46:15.180 immediately,

00:46:16.340 the kind of,

00:46:17.320 the people who

00:46:18.100 make their living

00:46:19.060 by inventing

00:46:20.120 new ways to

00:46:21.020 construe

00:46:21.600 ourselves as

00:46:22.500 oppressed and

00:46:22.980 oppressing,

00:46:24.200 were just there

00:46:25.740 to supply them

00:46:26.860 an endless

00:46:27.480 amount of

00:46:28.200 stuff,

00:46:28.960 and there was

00:46:29.820 actually no way.

00:46:30.660 And outrage,

00:46:31.220 and threats

00:46:32.500 of somebody's

00:46:33.700 position,

00:46:34.160 and so on.

00:46:34.560 I mean,

00:46:34.680 I'll just give

00:46:35.340 you one other

00:46:35.820 example.

00:46:36.440 I mean,

00:46:36.560 there's a million,

00:46:37.200 but this one I

00:46:37.860 found interesting

00:46:38.840 and right in line

00:46:39.480 with what you're

00:46:39.880 saying,

00:46:40.180 where the young

00:46:40.580 people drive

00:46:41.240 the change

00:46:42.020 inside the

00:46:42.500 organization.

00:46:43.180 This one's

00:46:43.480 from Publishing.

00:46:44.720 A good friend

00:46:45.300 of mine is

00:46:47.120 with a very

00:46:47.740 well-known

00:46:48.260 publishing company

00:46:49.340 and told me

00:46:50.000 this story,

00:46:50.600 and it's

00:46:50.840 somebody our

00:46:51.420 viewers would

00:46:52.460 know who

00:46:52.840 told me

00:46:53.100 this story.

00:46:55.760 Somebody had

00:46:56.380 pitched a book

00:46:56.940 or had written

00:46:57.680 a book about

00:46:58.540 a woman in,

00:46:59.740 I think it was

00:47:00.100 the 1920s,

00:47:00.860 1930s,

00:47:01.720 who wanted

00:47:02.260 to be a

00:47:02.620 surgeon in

00:47:03.220 America and

00:47:04.460 felt she had

00:47:05.300 to go as

00:47:07.040 a man.

00:47:07.500 She had to

00:47:07.880 portray herself

00:47:10.340 as trans,

00:47:10.980 right?

00:47:11.540 Nobody knew

00:47:12.180 that she was

00:47:12.520 actually a woman.

00:47:13.360 She wasn't

00:47:13.760 trans.

00:47:14.260 She just had

00:47:14.680 to pretend

00:47:15.420 she was a

00:47:15.840 man because

00:47:16.220 you couldn't

00:47:16.540 get into

00:47:16.780 medical school

00:47:17.340 back then

00:47:17.760 as a woman.

00:47:18.740 So she did.

00:47:19.420 She cross-dressed

00:47:20.920 as a man,

00:47:21.500 and she passed

00:47:22.080 as a man,

00:47:22.620 and she had

00:47:22.960 a very successful

00:47:23.620 career.

00:47:25.040 So this is a novel

00:47:25.440 based upon an

00:47:26.140 actual person,

00:47:26.840 the historical fiction.

00:47:27.640 So it's not

00:47:27.940 really a novel,

00:47:28.420 it's nonfiction.

00:47:29.320 I think it was

00:47:29.800 either nonfiction

00:47:30.820 or it was a novel

00:47:31.400 based on real life.

00:47:32.860 So she had a

00:47:34.580 very successful

00:47:35.080 career posing

00:47:35.960 as a man,

00:47:36.540 as a surgeon.

00:47:37.220 And then when

00:47:37.520 she died,

00:47:38.560 it came out,

00:47:39.520 right?

00:47:39.820 And now this

00:47:41.320 was a look

00:47:41.860 at this woman's

00:47:43.000 life.

00:47:43.860 So the editor

00:47:45.860 at the publishing

00:47:46.360 house said,

00:47:46.780 this is a great

00:47:47.060 story,

00:47:47.540 and we definitely

00:47:48.000 want to publish

00:47:48.460 this book,

00:47:48.960 and ran it by

00:47:49.820 a couple,

00:47:50.780 you know,

00:47:50.960 the young editors

00:47:51.680 at this

00:47:53.120 publishing house,

00:47:54.000 and they

00:47:55.160 were deeply

00:47:56.640 offended

00:47:57.560 because the

00:47:59.360 woman didn't

00:48:00.860 own being

00:48:01.940 trans.

00:48:02.340 She was basically

00:48:02.920 a poser trans.

00:48:04.020 She wasn't a

00:48:04.500 real trans person.

00:48:05.840 She was a fake

00:48:06.600 trans person,

00:48:07.380 and they found

00:48:08.260 it very deeply

00:48:08.900 offensive to

00:48:09.700 actual trans

00:48:10.600 people.

00:48:11.380 And so the

00:48:12.140 editor said,

00:48:13.040 maybe I'm just

00:48:13.880 dealing with two

00:48:14.460 lunatics here.

00:48:15.300 I'm going to

00:48:15.580 open this up to

00:48:16.180 a wider group

00:48:16.900 of people,

00:48:17.460 and had a

00:48:18.500 greater group

00:48:19.200 of young editors

00:48:20.280 read it.

00:48:20.760 And their

00:48:21.880 response was to

00:48:22.860 get him in

00:48:24.020 trouble for

00:48:25.020 forcing him to

00:48:26.140 read, forcing

00:48:26.840 them to read

00:48:27.580 such an openly

00:48:28.680 bigoted manuscript.

00:48:30.320 Needless to say,

00:48:31.440 the book did not

00:48:32.380 make it, and I

00:48:33.980 don't know what

00:48:34.340 ultimately happened

00:48:35.000 with it, but

00:48:35.600 that's the

00:48:36.840 situation these

00:48:37.960 more reasonable

00:48:39.100 older school

00:48:40.020 people are in

00:48:40.880 right now.

00:48:41.740 You don't know

00:48:42.100 what landmines

00:48:42.720 you're about to

00:48:43.120 step on.

00:48:44.140 So that's the

00:48:44.520 second aspect of

00:48:45.800 what I call

00:48:46.740 success for our

00:48:47.300 ally.

00:48:47.580 First of it is,

00:48:48.780 we have to know

00:48:49.320 your identity so

00:48:50.120 that we can

00:48:50.580 discriminate against

00:48:51.540 or for you.

00:48:52.760 Second is,

00:48:53.960 against or for

00:48:54.860 you, I like

00:48:55.340 that.

00:48:55.560 Right.

00:48:55.920 The basis of

00:48:57.560 censorship is

00:49:01.240 this idea of

00:49:02.620 emotional harm and

00:49:03.640 trauma, right?

00:49:04.640 And this is

00:49:06.660 something where

00:49:07.740 they got him in

00:49:09.840 trouble on the

00:49:10.540 basis of

00:49:10.980 employment law

00:49:11.860 that has to do

00:49:12.620 with harassment,

00:49:13.500 right?

00:49:13.860 And so you have

00:49:14.360 this existing

00:49:14.920 legal toolkit,

00:49:16.040 and you use

00:49:20.460 it, you code

00:49:22.200 your claims to

00:49:23.360 say that this

00:49:24.320 makes me feel

00:49:25.300 unsafe, you

00:49:26.080 know, there's

00:49:27.660 specific legal

00:49:28.360 language that you

00:49:29.080 use when you

00:49:29.880 make these

00:49:30.240 claims.

00:49:31.640 But that

00:49:33.280 legal language

00:49:34.520 that is kind

00:49:35.120 of, in many

00:49:35.940 cases, used as

00:49:37.500 a weapon, also

00:49:39.960 penetrates people's

00:49:41.160 souls.

00:49:42.140 It makes it so

00:49:43.140 that they really

00:49:43.620 are vulnerable at

00:49:44.520 this level,

00:49:45.280 right?

00:49:45.620 And so, like,

00:49:46.140 you are taught

00:49:46.660 to read things as

00:49:47.940 if your emotional

00:49:49.800 well-being is on

00:49:50.620 the line at all

00:49:51.240 times, in part

00:49:52.960 because if you

00:49:53.860 get offended, you

00:49:54.680 can then use this

00:49:55.500 as a weapon to

00:49:56.120 destroy your

00:49:56.640 enemies.

00:49:57.740 But, like, that

00:49:58.420 habit of reading

00:49:59.080 actually, like,

00:49:59.760 penetrates your

00:50:00.400 emotions so that

00:50:01.200 you actually are,

00:50:01.980 like, emotionally

00:50:02.640 traumatized and

00:50:03.520 harmed.

00:50:04.380 So it seems like

00:50:05.060 there is this

00:50:05.500 kind of law of

00:50:07.000 conservation of

00:50:07.840 oppression, right?

00:50:08.780 Like, as we

00:50:09.280 become, as, like,

00:50:10.800 people have, like,

00:50:11.480 less and less to

00:50:13.040 actually, um,

00:50:14.520 you know, be,

00:50:16.340 you know, less

00:50:17.160 and less likely

00:50:17.740 to encounter

00:50:18.820 sort of overt

00:50:19.960 expressions of

00:50:20.660 prejudice as these

00:50:21.400 things become

00:50:21.980 utterly taboo on

00:50:22.780 the basis of

00:50:23.360 social death.

00:50:24.800 There is this,

00:50:25.900 there is this,

00:50:27.440 uh, increased

00:50:28.700 sensitivity, you

00:50:30.020 know, to the

00:50:30.560 microaggression,

00:50:31.440 right?

00:50:31.680 And those who

00:50:32.200 sort of experienced

00:50:33.100 actual legalized

00:50:35.120 systemic discrimination

00:50:36.560 simply were not

00:50:38.040 in a position

00:50:38.580 where they could

00:50:40.220 feel, right,

00:50:41.940 the sting of the

00:50:43.380 microaggression.

00:50:44.040 And so you

00:50:44.500 have all these

00:50:44.940 reports, right,

00:50:45.680 in New York

00:50:46.060 Times where

00:50:48.480 they, they go on

00:50:49.240 hunts for

00:50:50.000 oppression and

00:50:50.880 they, and they

00:50:52.140 report them

00:50:52.720 breathlessly and

00:50:53.900 in order to do

00:50:55.120 their reporting,

00:50:55.640 they, they

00:50:55.980 interview a lot

00:50:56.840 of people and

00:50:58.240 they come up

00:50:58.700 with the best

00:50:59.100 thing they can

00:50:59.540 come up with,

00:51:00.140 right?

00:51:00.340 Like, they

00:51:00.640 print the most

00:51:02.220 damning thing

00:51:02.940 that is fit to

00:51:03.520 print, right?

00:51:04.600 And, and so

00:51:05.680 after the, the

00:51:07.040 great sort of

00:51:07.940 racial reckoning

00:51:09.140 at, at

00:51:09.740 Conde Nast, there

00:51:10.540 was an example

00:51:11.160 where there

00:51:12.580 was, uh, you

00:51:13.860 know, uh, an

00:51:14.920 editor, I think

00:51:15.620 of Bon Appetit,

00:51:16.660 right?

00:51:16.980 And he, what

00:51:17.880 did he do?

00:51:18.420 He, in 2004, he

00:51:19.700 wore a costume

00:51:20.940 that was seen as

00:51:22.420 making reference

00:51:23.780 to Latino

00:51:25.180 identity, Latinx

00:51:26.140 identity, right?

00:51:27.280 And that was

00:51:27.560 seen as like an

00:51:28.100 active, and of

00:51:28.980 course, like you

00:51:29.420 don't lose your

00:51:29.900 job simply because

00:51:31.260 somebody has

00:51:32.060 some thing, you

00:51:32.820 lose it because

00:51:33.340 like other people

00:51:34.040 dislike you, have

00:51:34.800 agendas against

00:51:35.420 you, and, you

00:51:36.800 know, you can't

00:51:37.400 marshal a coalition

00:51:38.420 on your behalf.

00:51:39.800 Oh, tell me about

00:51:40.840 it.

00:51:41.400 They did a, like

00:51:42.000 a wider piece

00:51:43.020 about all the

00:51:43.780 problematic things

00:51:44.800 that happen, and

00:51:45.540 the example that

00:51:46.260 they show was an

00:51:48.000 editor at another

00:51:48.940 magazine had a, you

00:51:50.560 know, had a black

00:51:51.220 assistant, and he

00:51:52.960 gave her a copy of

00:51:54.020 the book, The

00:51:54.480 Element of Style,

00:51:55.980 right, by E.B.

00:51:56.740 White, which is

00:51:57.160 like the standard

00:51:58.000 We all have to

00:51:59.280 read it.

00:52:00.040 Standard guy.

00:52:00.680 She was offended

00:52:01.300 by it and took it

00:52:02.220 to mean as a racial

00:52:03.060 microaggression

00:52:03.680 suggesting, right,

00:52:05.400 that like she needed

00:52:06.740 to improve her work,

00:52:08.040 which A, it doesn't

00:52:09.800 necessarily mean that,

00:52:10.560 B, your editor,

00:52:12.680 right, his job is to

00:52:15.060 get you to be better

00:52:15.860 at your work, right,

00:52:16.780 like that is, that

00:52:17.520 is within his area of

00:52:19.060 competency, and, and,

00:52:21.080 and, and there's really

00:52:23.040 no reason to think that

00:52:24.300 it is a microaggression

00:52:25.240 of any kind, racial or

00:52:26.340 otherwise.

00:52:27.220 What's revealing about

00:52:28.520 it is that it made the

00:52:29.820 cut, right, because if

00:52:32.000 they had anything better,

00:52:33.680 right, like, yeah,

00:52:34.880 yeah, it would have been

00:52:35.400 front and center.

00:52:35.880 There's actually nothing

00:52:37.220 there.

00:52:37.620 There's just a person

00:52:38.860 who has been schooled

00:52:40.680 to, to take offense,

00:52:42.120 to believe that nothing

00:52:43.540 has changed, to believe

00:52:45.000 that this thing that

00:52:46.120 happened to her is the

00:52:47.520 moral equivalent of Jim

00:52:49.260 Crow, and that the same

00:52:51.200 degree of, of, of, of,

00:52:53.920 of umbrage is, is, is,

00:52:56.540 is, is merited, and above

00:52:58.640 all that, like, there will

00:53:00.180 be people within the

00:53:01.000 culture who's going to

00:53:01.740 just take it at face value,

00:53:02.660 right, there will be

00:53:03.400 people in the culture

00:53:03.960 who present that to you

00:53:05.140 and expect you to nod

00:53:06.820 your head sagely and

00:53:08.420 piously and be like,

00:53:09.620 oh my God, like, what

00:53:10.700 was done to this person?

00:53:12.560 And so it's, it's, you

00:53:15.940 know, going back to this

00:53:17.020 thing, like, you know,

00:53:19.060 I wrote an essay, you

00:53:20.220 know, sort of about sort

00:53:21.180 of Asian American male

00:53:22.880 rage, right, and it has

00:53:24.260 to do with the kind of

00:53:25.120 like emasculation of the

00:53:26.100 Asian American male,

00:53:27.020 which is a trope within

00:53:28.000 Asian American study,

00:53:28.780 but it's also like a part

00:53:29.600 of the experiences of

00:53:31.060 Asian Americans.

00:53:31.560 And there was a study

00:53:32.480 that was done by, you

00:53:34.620 know, the Freakonomics

00:53:35.360 guy, Stephen Dubner, I

00:53:36.600 guess, and, you know, he

00:53:37.560 looked at online dating,

00:53:38.700 and he reached the

00:53:39.380 conclusion that an

00:53:40.660 Asian American male, in

00:53:41.560 order to be on parody

00:53:42.440 with his otherwise

00:53:43.900 similar white counterpart

00:53:45.580 in terms of the amount

00:53:46.400 of responses that he

00:53:47.160 would get, would need to

00:53:48.400 make $367,000 more a

00:53:50.440 year, right, to, like,

00:53:51.380 be seen as on parody.

00:53:53.020 Oh my God, this is like

00:53:53.840 the, this is like the

00:53:54.800 SAT, you know, I read, I

00:53:56.280 read that you did an

00:53:56.940 article about this,

00:53:57.500 right, the Asians that

00:53:58.180 die score higher in

00:54:00.000 order to get in.

00:54:00.660 They score, they score

00:54:01.480 300 points higher, uh,

00:54:03.280 to, you know, uh, 300

00:54:05.340 points higher than, than,

00:54:06.600 than the, the otherwise

00:54:07.780 equivalent white, uh, you

00:54:09.680 know, white candidate,

00:54:10.500 and then 420 points

00:54:12.340 higher than the

00:54:12.980 otherwise equivalent

00:54:13.920 black candidate, right?

00:54:15.500 And so, uh, or 120

00:54:17.100 points.

00:54:17.260 So the same is true in

00:54:17.940 online dating.

00:54:18.620 The Asian men really

00:54:19.400 have a lot of very high

00:54:20.420 hoops to jump through

00:54:21.100 to get the same results.

00:54:22.040 Well, and so it's like,

00:54:22.920 look, we have this, we

00:54:23.880 have this statistics-based

00:54:25.380 account of systemic

00:54:27.440 problems, right?

00:54:28.640 And like, I don't

00:54:30.560 look, that, that, that

00:54:31.700 study, I'm sure you can

00:54:33.120 kind of poke methodological

00:54:34.820 holes in it and so on,

00:54:36.220 but I don't think any

00:54:36.880 Asian American man who's

00:54:37.760 been on an online dating

00:54:38.560 app will dispute that

00:54:40.440 like, it's, it is

00:54:41.680 documenting to some

00:54:42.740 degree, something that

00:54:43.400 is real, right?

00:54:44.840 And, and, and, and

00:54:45.660 can I just ask, even

00:54:46.540 if the, even if the

00:54:47.460 women on there are

00:54:48.400 Asian, are, are Asian

00:54:49.600 women putting, yeah,

00:54:51.260 no, I mean, as well.

00:54:52.960 Okay.

00:54:53.340 Cupid actually found that

00:54:54.700 there was a stronger

00:54:55.440 white male bias among,

00:54:57.280 you know, among Asian

00:54:58.140 American women who are

00:54:59.480 on the site, right?

00:55:00.560 So that's a self, that's

00:55:01.620 a self-selecting group,

00:55:02.680 but like those who are

00:55:04.100 using online dating,

00:55:04.960 right?

00:55:05.220 Like this, so like, this

00:55:07.320 is all a part of the

00:55:08.120 same thing.

00:55:08.420 We have all this kind

00:55:09.100 of like database and

00:55:11.020 race-based information

00:55:12.480 where we're able to look

00:55:13.620 at disparities between

00:55:14.680 people that document

00:55:15.780 what people feel to be

00:55:17.880 real, right?

00:55:19.860 Disparities that aren't

00:55:21.580 captured by, and that you

00:55:23.400 can't legislate out of

00:55:24.400 existence, right?

00:55:25.280 Like the Civil Rights

00:55:26.080 Act of 1964 said you, but

00:55:28.160 like there are all of

00:55:28.700 these things that exist in

00:55:29.520 people's minds that you

00:55:30.500 can't, that you can't

00:55:32.320 legislate out of

00:55:32.880 existence.

00:55:34.160 My only response though

00:55:35.780 is like the right answer

00:55:37.140 is not the one that we

00:55:38.360 have, have, have chosen,

00:55:40.420 which is to kind of make

00:55:41.560 it so that an accusation

00:55:44.900 as dumb as giving me the

00:55:47.320 elements of the style is a

00:55:48.680 racial microaggression,

00:55:50.120 right?

00:55:50.460 And that's inevitably what

00:55:51.960 happens when you kind of

00:55:54.020 remove any idea of like

00:55:56.280 proportionality, uh, you

00:55:57.900 know, and, and, and you

00:55:59.120 sort of put ideas of due

00:56:00.820 process into, and then

00:56:02.600 you just create this kind

00:56:03.820 of fantasy world, as you

00:56:06.360 know, right, where you can

00:56:08.860 be punished for saying

00:56:09.600 something, something is

00:56:10.340 true, and you can be

00:56:11.440 punished for denying

00:56:12.380 something that is false,

00:56:13.380 right?

00:56:13.740 Like this is not the

00:56:15.100 answer, right?

00:56:16.240 Like, and above all sort of

00:56:18.520 like, how is it that the

00:56:20.180 Asian man is in a position

00:56:21.780 and sort of, I've kind

00:56:23.200 of made the sort of

00:56:24.440 argument that the Asian

00:56:25.300 man is actually like in a

00:56:26.260 position to restore reason

00:56:29.100 and sanity on these issues

00:56:30.140 precisely because he knows

00:56:31.480 something about like the

00:56:33.140 structural analysis of kind

00:56:35.240 of racial inequality that

00:56:36.580 appears in ways that like,

00:56:38.800 you know, that, that don't,

00:56:40.760 that, that, that laws are

00:56:42.100 powerless against on the one

00:56:43.260 hand, right?

00:56:44.280 But like, he also is on the

00:56:45.920 other side, right, of this,

00:56:48.740 he also is on the other side

00:56:50.140 of this attack on racially

00:56:52.180 disproportionate things in

00:56:54.420 tech and other areas of

00:56:56.180 life, and he also gets no

00:56:58.980 sucker from the successor

00:57:00.440 coalition on the issues

00:57:01.980 that trouble him, right?

00:57:03.600 Because, because sort of,

00:57:05.380 if you criticize those

00:57:06.860 online dating figures, what

00:57:10.040 you're criticizing is the

00:57:11.000 preferences of women, right?

00:57:12.940 And so the Asian male who

00:57:13.900 does that finds himself,

00:57:16.100 you know, the, obviously the

00:57:17.380 most, you know, the most

00:57:18.900 despised and at the bottom

00:57:19.980 of the system, so it

00:57:21.080 reveals a kind of hypocrisy

00:57:22.600 within it, which is not to

00:57:23.960 say that even if it were the

00:57:25.140 case that like this, this

00:57:26.840 system were on my side, I

00:57:28.060 would be on its side, but it

00:57:29.380 makes it easier, right?

00:57:31.500 Like to both be able to say

00:57:33.120 like, oh, we want to be able

00:57:34.980 to talk about like both

00:57:36.180 dimensions of this, right?

00:57:37.400 Like we, like culturally, you

00:57:39.300 know, we should be able to,

00:57:40.340 as a cultural project, you

00:57:41.980 know, like microaggressions are

00:57:43.420 real, it can be annoying to

00:57:44.840 have to constantly, you know,

00:57:46.900 whatever, deal with, you

00:57:49.560 know, people who want to

00:57:51.360 know like where you're really

00:57:52.700 from or whatever, not that

00:57:53.840 like it's only happened to me

00:57:54.760 a few times and it never

00:57:55.700 offended me in any way, but

00:57:56.960 there are those who now say

00:57:58.440 that like, oh, there's an

00:57:59.700 insinuation or an

00:58:00.780 implication here that like

00:58:02.060 we're not real Americans.

00:58:03.340 And, you know, there is

00:58:04.900 actual history behind that.

00:58:06.340 There is a reason to feel

00:58:07.320 that way, but like it's

00:58:09.100 actually kind of unhealthy

00:58:10.200 to encourage people to feel

00:58:12.960 that way.

00:58:13.520 Up next, Weaponized

00:58:15.820 Fragility.

00:58:17.400 That's, that's a good book

00:58:19.080 name.

00:58:20.040 That's, that's what we

00:58:21.040 should, oh, I wish I had

00:58:22.220 thought of that.

00:58:23.220 Well, Wesley's got to write

00:58:24.100 that book, but that's a

00:58:24.940 great book name, Weaponized

00:58:26.440 Fragility.

00:58:27.460 And we'll get into, well,

00:58:28.580 you know what it is, but

00:58:29.520 he's going to put some meat

00:58:30.240 on those bones.

00:58:30.820 And then a great discussion

00:58:32.940 on what we do about this

00:58:35.460 and where it's going next.

00:58:37.140 Our good friend is, is

00:58:44.980 black.

00:58:45.780 He has such an amazing

00:58:47.540 attitude about himself,

00:58:48.640 even when we've seen him

00:58:50.000 be the discrim, the, the

00:58:51.240 victim of a discriminatory

00:58:52.440 remark or what seems to be

00:58:54.160 people who are looking at

00:58:55.280 him differently for no good

00:58:56.320 reason.

00:58:57.200 His instincts are always,

00:58:58.700 I'm amazing.

00:58:59.680 It's definitely not about me

00:59:00.880 or my skin color.

00:59:01.840 You know, like, and his life

00:59:03.360 reflects that attitude.

00:59:04.600 His success reflects that

00:59:06.140 attitude and no matter

00:59:07.460 what your color, creed,

00:59:08.440 whatever it is, I believe

00:59:10.260 the opposite's true.

00:59:11.120 The more you lean into

00:59:11.800 victimhood, perceived or

00:59:12.940 actual, the more you're

00:59:14.400 going to get negative

00:59:15.220 results in your life.

00:59:16.180 And that's what we're

00:59:16.880 creating right now with

00:59:18.000 young people.

00:59:19.440 So there, there's this

00:59:20.060 divergence between like

00:59:21.320 the, the optimal approach

00:59:23.020 for systemic and

00:59:24.120 structural approaches.

00:59:25.440 Right.

00:59:26.280 So like the, the optimal

00:59:27.340 individual approach is to

00:59:30.040 let stuff roll off you.

00:59:30.940 Right.

00:59:31.660 Um, and, and, and just

00:59:33.060 kind of, and, and the,

00:59:35.740 but, you know,

00:59:36.140 but that sort of leaves

00:59:37.340 intact the structural

00:59:38.320 dimension.

00:59:38.860 Right.

00:59:39.840 And so it's like, well,

00:59:41.060 I think we should be able

00:59:41.660 to talk about the

00:59:42.200 structural dimension, but

00:59:43.080 like the actual remedy

00:59:45.240 and practice where like

00:59:46.880 everybody is automatically

00:59:48.580 guilty and so on.

00:59:49.740 And is also is like much

00:59:53.520 worse, right?

00:59:54.300 Like you, you can divide

00:59:56.040 and destroy a polity,

00:59:59.240 right?

00:59:59.920 Like through, you know,

01:00:01.880 by taking these approaches

01:00:03.360 too seriously and, you

01:00:04.980 know, which we're, we're

01:00:05.920 going to see what's going

01:00:06.640 to happen, but certainly

01:00:07.480 there is like dangerous

01:00:09.380 potential, um, as, as,

01:00:12.160 as these things emerge.

01:00:13.020 And moreover, it's like

01:00:15.020 moreover on the whole,

01:00:17.280 it's like, how do you

01:00:19.380 strike that balance?

01:00:20.120 It's hard to do, but

01:00:21.920 certainly the approach

01:00:23.060 that we have right now is

01:00:24.360 like, makes it impossible

01:00:25.280 to strike that balance.

01:00:26.080 If you posit the existence

01:00:27.240 of people who are, you

01:00:29.060 know, so fragile that,

01:00:30.620 that anything that touches

01:00:31.720 them is immediately is

01:00:33.180 cause for emotional harm

01:00:34.440 and you get to call the

01:00:36.080 HR department and so on

01:00:37.340 that does a couple of

01:00:38.080 things, right?

01:00:39.160 Like it, it, but one of

01:00:40.860 the things that it does is

01:00:42.100 that it actually molds

01:00:43.060 people who feel this way.

01:00:44.480 It changes their structure,

01:00:45.780 their feeling.

01:00:46.320 It makes them more fragile

01:00:47.380 and it makes all of society

01:00:48.900 more fragile.

01:00:49.520 And the continuation of

01:00:51.460 that, you know, as it

01:00:53.860 increasingly gets

01:00:55.420 expressed, you know, in a

01:00:58.240 politics of the kind of

01:00:59.300 weaponized fragility, right?

01:01:01.540 Uh, you know, you know,

01:01:04.560 I, you know, I have no

01:01:05.880 problem, you know, even

01:01:07.840 knowing the things that I

01:01:08.860 know that I just described

01:01:10.300 and talk about, you know,

01:01:11.980 that like it's a hundred

01:01:13.440 percent the wrong path and

01:01:14.640 one and all reasonable

01:01:15.900 people must like stand in

01:01:17.240 opposition to it.

01:01:18.920 Weaponized fragility.

01:01:20.080 I like that too.

01:01:21.440 There is, um, a push in

01:01:23.860 every area.

01:01:24.440 It seems right now to sort

01:01:25.520 of lean into one's

01:01:26.700 fragility and, and sort of

01:01:28.240 capitalize on the joy of

01:01:30.840 believing it's not your

01:01:32.800 fault.

01:01:33.740 Whatever's gone, gone wrong

01:01:35.160 in your life is not your

01:01:36.320 fault.

01:01:36.660 You have an escape route

01:01:38.260 here where you can blame

01:01:39.520 society.

01:01:40.020 You can blame skin color.

01:01:41.180 You can blame just

01:01:41.960 generally others.

01:01:43.240 And there was an article,

01:01:44.760 um, in persuasion in

01:01:46.680 August, August 13th, when

01:01:48.380 therapists become activists

01:01:49.520 and talking about how

01:01:50.820 there's now trouble in

01:01:52.180 training of therapists who

01:01:54.380 are being told, uh, more

01:01:56.660 and more to understand, to,

01:01:57.980 to encourage their

01:01:58.700 patients, to understand

01:01:59.540 their problems are

01:02:00.420 because of an, of an

01:02:02.160 oppressive society.

01:02:03.800 And here's a quote from

01:02:04.760 it, which is just, just

01:02:05.480 extraordinary to me.

01:02:06.500 One colleague of mine, uh,

01:02:08.240 who works in a prominent

01:02:09.080 psychiatry department

01:02:10.060 told me that during a

01:02:11.480 group discussion of the

01:02:12.780 growing problems of stress

01:02:13.800 and suicide in black

01:02:14.780 youth, her colleagues were

01:02:16.360 unwilling to discuss

01:02:17.680 explanations that

01:02:19.100 pointed to factors

01:02:19.920 coming from, um, coming

01:02:22.920 from within beleaguered

01:02:24.880 communities, thus

01:02:26.120 participants who pointed

01:02:27.040 to fear of police

01:02:28.020 aggression and societal

01:02:29.560 discrimination were

01:02:30.680 greeted with nods.

01:02:31.600 But when she suggested

01:02:32.700 aggression, um, or when

01:02:34.560 she suggested that they

01:02:35.460 also consider bullying

01:02:37.320 by classmates, chaos in

01:02:39.120 the home or

01:02:40.040 neighborhood violence, she

01:02:41.640 was ignored.

01:02:42.980 Anyone who, anyone who

01:02:44.340 has taught in one of

01:02:45.060 those schools knows

01:02:46.220 that, you know, at, at,

01:02:47.680 at a minimum, there is

01:02:48.460 a mix of factors at work

01:02:49.740 here, right?

01:02:50.460 Like you, you have a lot

01:02:52.160 of, you have a lot of

01:02:53.400 like traumatized kids that

01:02:54.420 have absent parents or,

01:02:55.740 or, or non-functional

01:02:57.500 parents and it manifests

01:02:59.280 in the classroom and, uh,

01:03:01.340 it, and, and the kids

01:03:02.400 who have these emotional

01:03:03.180 problems that come in

01:03:04.280 prevent other kids from,

01:03:05.640 uh, you know, from, and

01:03:07.040 so a fix that says, oh,

01:03:08.780 we're just going to like

01:03:09.440 look at these figures.

01:03:10.260 We're going to conclude

01:03:11.260 that like on the basis of

01:03:12.520 like racial disparities in

01:03:14.180 student discipline and

01:03:15.020 suspension, that there

01:03:15.720 must be racism at work.

01:03:16.920 And we're going to issue a

01:03:18.400 mandate that is going to,

01:03:20.560 uh, prevent teachers at

01:03:22.360 the classroom level, right.

01:03:23.640 From being able to

01:03:24.900 discipline their kids,

01:03:27.340 right.

01:03:27.760 Is to make that problem

01:03:29.980 worse for everyone else.

01:03:30.920 Like who are not the

01:03:31.860 discipline problems

01:03:32.540 themselves to them as

01:03:34.360 this school becomes

01:03:35.420 increasingly dysfunctional

01:03:36.720 may join the ranks of

01:03:38.140 those, you know, who,

01:03:39.460 who have, uh, emotional

01:03:40.720 problems that make things

01:03:41.780 worse.

01:03:42.040 Right.

01:03:42.340 And now when they go to

01:03:43.100 their therapist, they're

01:03:43.920 going to be told it's not

01:03:44.640 your fault.

01:03:45.100 It's not your fault.

01:03:45.640 You know, and Brit Hume

01:03:46.560 always used to say, and I

01:03:47.380 love the expression, I've

01:03:48.540 stolen it.

01:03:49.040 Uh, winners take

01:03:50.340 responsibility, bloomer losers

01:03:52.140 blame others.

01:03:53.380 And what we're doing now is

01:03:55.540 telling everyone nothing's

01:03:57.160 their fault.

01:03:57.680 You, you need to take no

01:03:59.260 responsibility.

01:04:00.480 And, and that leads me to

01:04:01.980 the big question, Wesley,

01:04:03.400 which is something I

01:04:04.580 discussed with my husband

01:04:05.440 and our, our friend Hayden

01:04:06.760 the other day, which is

01:04:07.600 where does this go?

01:04:10.240 What's what, what do all

01:04:12.220 these systems get replaced

01:04:13.680 with when you get rid of,

01:04:15.100 you know, as Andrew was

01:04:16.500 summarizing his discussion

01:04:17.940 with you, which I highly

01:04:19.280 recommend on his sub stack.

01:04:20.880 Um, if you get rid of due

01:04:23.500 process rejection of even

01:04:25.820 an attempt, I'm quoting him

01:04:26.920 now at objectivity, a

01:04:28.220 belief in active race and

01:04:29.740 sex discrimination in the

01:04:30.820 name of quote equity to

01:04:32.400 counter the legacy of the

01:04:33.360 past, the purging of

01:04:34.400 ideological diversity and

01:04:35.920 the replacement of liberal

01:04:36.880 education with left

01:04:37.980 indoctrination.

01:04:38.940 If we do that as part of

01:04:40.520 the successor ideology, then

01:04:43.320 what, what do we replace

01:04:45.040 it with?

01:04:45.320 Well, it's a kind of like

01:04:47.980 bloodless inner Sovietization

01:04:50.000 of our society.

01:04:51.320 Right.

01:04:51.740 And the thing that is of

01:04:52.780 interest is that, you know,

01:04:54.540 Marx always, uh, said that

01:04:58.240 it was going to be in the

01:04:59.620 advanced industrial economies

01:05:01.100 that will be, you know, that

01:05:02.760 will be ripe for a transition

01:05:04.300 to, you know, the final stage

01:05:06.220 of history.

01:05:07.100 And, you know, in, in reality,

01:05:09.000 it ended up being, uh, you

01:05:10.740 know, uh, partially industrialized

01:05:13.500 societies like Russia and China

01:05:15.000 that ended up going through

01:05:16.380 communist revolutions and the

01:05:17.680 revolutions were so violent

01:05:18.860 because you had to make up

01:05:22.400 so much, like, because the

01:05:23.280 class structure and the

01:05:24.380 developmental structure of the

01:05:25.520 economy were, were, were in

01:05:27.160 such rudimentary phases that

01:05:28.620 you had to use violence, right?

01:05:31.100 In order to lash people into,

01:05:33.360 into that final stage.

01:05:35.240 Right.

01:05:36.060 But, but, but Marx's original

01:05:38.760 idea, right.

01:05:39.800 Was that, that it would

01:05:41.640 happen, it would happen

01:05:42.940 naturally as, as, as, as, um,

01:05:45.180 as, as society, you know, as

01:05:47.260 wealthy, uh, societies that had

01:05:49.660 a surplus, um, you know, they

01:05:51.920 would move, they would move

01:05:53.680 through democratic means toward,

01:05:55.980 um, toward, uh, you know, the,

01:05:59.780 the, the post-class society.

01:06:01.320 And so what I see happening is,

01:06:04.100 you know, there's, there's this

01:06:04.980 kind of privatized entrepreneur,

01:06:06.680 like moral entrepreneurs who

01:06:08.960 act as kind of political

01:06:10.640 commissars, right.

01:06:11.640 And so you, you have, and what

01:06:13.620 you have is you have a, you

01:06:15.320 have a season of protests and

01:06:18.260 they have a set of demands and

01:06:20.140 the demands are more mental

01:06:21.840 health faculty that are trained

01:06:23.400 in, you know, trauma-informed

01:06:25.120 approaches and, and, and, and

01:06:27.540 more diversity, uh, czars and

01:06:29.940 more, uh, people in the ethnic

01:06:32.780 studies department and the gender

01:06:34.240 studies department.

01:06:34.960 And so in order to placate

01:06:37.100 that, that, you know, to get

01:06:38.720 the, to get the, uh, to get

01:06:40.720 the protest to go away, they

01:06:41.780 bring in, they hire all of

01:06:43.560 these people, right.

01:06:44.620 And, and then those people act

01:06:46.480 as a constituency on behalf of

01:06:48.620 hiring more such people

01:06:50.360 because, and, and those people

01:06:51.820 are always redefining the

01:06:53.580 problem such that the problem

01:06:54.700 never goes away.

01:06:55.320 Right.

01:06:55.900 They, they, they, can I just

01:06:57.280 tell you just, I, I I'm loving

01:06:58.920 this, but I just want to tell

01:06:59.640 you, there was just a, an, an

01:07:00.940 article about Harvard West

01:07:01.960 Lake out in California and

01:07:03.780 they had, I think it was five

01:07:04.800 diversity czars or officers

01:07:07.140 inside of the school.

01:07:08.220 And guess what they

01:07:09.140 determined when they took a

01:07:10.320 hard look at how Harvard

01:07:11.220 Westlake was doing, they

01:07:12.240 needed another diversity

01:07:13.220 czar.

01:07:13.700 They brought in the sixth

01:07:14.580 and it's all from the same

01:07:16.160 group.

01:07:16.560 It's self-fulfilling.

01:07:17.660 It's, it's completely, you

01:07:18.980 know, back scratching of

01:07:20.440 oneself in one's own pocket.

01:07:22.020 Uh, but it's, it's corrupt

01:07:23.880 and it's dishonest.

01:07:24.760 Well, I mean, the kind of

01:07:26.780 the kind of consultant grift

01:07:29.020 that is endemic in the

01:07:30.260 defense department and other

01:07:31.840 bureaucratic agencies, they've

01:07:33.360 just, they've, they, they've

01:07:34.360 just turned it toward

01:07:35.360 themselves.

01:07:36.360 Right.

01:07:37.180 But okay.

01:07:38.140 So this is ongoing grifts.

01:07:40.580 Um, and they're, and they

01:07:42.040 inculcate their ideas in young

01:07:43.400 people so that they

01:07:44.180 reflexively see the world in a

01:07:45.860 certain way.

01:07:46.380 Right.

01:07:46.840 And so, uh, one of the

01:07:48.440 struggle sessions at the New

01:07:49.640 York times that has exerted a

01:07:51.760 pall over the whole newsroom is

01:07:53.260 the, is the firing of Don

01:07:54.600 McNeil, who, you know, he's

01:07:55.660 this older white guy, a

01:07:56.640 veteran of the paper, um,

01:07:58.520 reporter, the COVID

01:08:00.400 reporter.

01:08:00.800 And he actually, you know, he

01:08:02.080 won a Pulitzer prize as part

01:08:03.300 of the team for their

01:08:04.160 coverage.

01:08:05.180 Uh, so, so that the paper

01:08:07.220 both forced his, the paper

01:08:09.500 both forced his, his, his,

01:08:12.280 um, his resignation on the

01:08:14.180 one hand, while they were

01:08:15.600 telling the Pulitzer team,

01:08:18.200 Oh, well, we disciplined him

01:08:19.240 and which they did.

01:08:20.560 They, they, they already

01:08:21.360 disciplined him without firing

01:08:22.540 him.

01:08:22.860 Right.

01:08:23.740 Uh, but,

01:08:24.600 you know, for using the N

01:08:25.700 word in a, in a conversation

01:08:27.040 where he was just repeating

01:08:29.260 the term talking about,

01:08:31.280 because there was a, there

01:08:32.180 was an instance where the

01:08:33.060 students that he was on a

01:08:34.700 trip to Mexico city, squiring

01:08:36.980 them around, you know, they

01:08:38.320 have some programs at times

01:08:39.480 where they get the reporters

01:08:40.260 to do this squiring around

01:08:42.300 these young people, most of

01:08:43.660 whom were, you know, uh, not

01:08:47.160 graduates, but they were, you

01:08:48.120 know, they were enrolled at

01:08:48.940 places like Dalton and so on.

01:08:50.160 Um, and, and, um, so you

01:08:52.940 know, you have these like

01:08:53.600 privileged white kids, they

01:08:54.340 were all white kids and who

01:08:56.260 were debating him about some

01:08:57.820 classmate of theirs who was

01:08:59.560 punished, canceled, whatever

01:09:01.020 for using the N word.

01:09:02.360 And so he repeated the word

01:09:03.940 in order to say, well, he used

01:09:06.040 that word, but like, what was

01:09:07.840 the context and, and, and why

01:09:09.480 was he canceled?

01:09:10.260 Right.

01:09:10.980 He, and he used the word in

01:09:11.940 order to identify it.

01:09:13.000 Right.

01:09:13.420 And, and, and in the

01:09:14.760 conversation, he was not

01:09:15.880 deploying it against the

01:09:17.560 person or applying it to any

01:09:19.800 right entity.

01:09:21.240 And, and, and so the times

01:09:22.760 initially they said like,

01:09:23.980 intent does not matter when

01:09:24.920 you use words like that.

01:09:25.900 Later on, a few days later,

01:09:27.360 they had to backtrack and

01:09:28.280 say like, oh, actually like,

01:09:29.260 of course, intent matters

01:09:30.240 despite the fact that we just

01:09:31.700 publicly declared that it

01:09:33.120 doesn't.

01:09:34.080 Um, but like, so what

01:09:35.940 happened there, right?

01:09:36.760 Like Don McNeil ran up

01:09:38.560 against people who accepted

01:09:40.820 as axiomatic, right?

01:09:42.160 Like all of these dogmas

01:09:43.280 that were taught to them by

01:09:45.220 their, you know, the, by

01:09:46.120 the people of color

01:09:46.820 conference, by the, by the

01:09:48.380 whole sort of nonprofit

01:09:49.500 industrial grift.

01:09:52.100 All right.

01:09:52.680 So like, it's a grift for

01:09:54.820 some people, but like, it

01:09:55.920 becomes the actual

01:09:56.800 worldview of many of the

01:09:58.500 people that are exposed to

01:09:59.960 it, not everyone.

01:10:01.160 And there's that preference

01:10:02.440 falsification problem where

01:10:03.900 not that many people believe

01:10:05.700 it, but if it used to be

01:10:06.940 the case, like in the class

01:10:08.060 of 2013, that, that, that

01:10:09.900 emerged into, into

01:10:11.980 journalism and other

01:10:13.020 professional entities

01:10:14.280 transform those places

01:10:15.860 overnight.

01:10:17.580 You know, I talked to

01:10:18.740 people from those

01:10:19.800 graduating cohorts and I'm

01:10:21.080 like, what percentage

01:10:21.820 really buy this stuff?

01:10:23.540 And they're like, 10% are

01:10:24.720 really passionate about it.

01:10:26.360 Like 5% have the stones to

01:10:30.620 actually be publicly

01:10:32.000 opposed to it.

01:10:33.820 30% are kind of friendly

01:10:35.340 toward it.

01:10:35.860 And the rest are just kind

01:10:36.960 of keeping their heads down

01:10:38.100 and surviving day to day

01:10:39.740 in the midst of what they

01:10:41.560 know is insanity, but like

01:10:43.740 that they know that they

01:10:44.680 can't do anything about.

01:10:46.140 Right.

01:10:46.620 They can't safely do

01:10:48.040 anything about.

01:10:48.940 So that like, you know,

01:10:49.520 10% of those cohorts.

01:10:51.980 So, oh, but now we're going

01:10:53.440 to start at K through 12.

01:10:55.020 Well, what percent of those

01:10:55.960 cohorts are going to buy into

01:10:57.220 it?

01:10:57.420 Not all of them, but let's

01:10:58.740 say we increase that 10% to

01:11:00.300 30%, right?

01:11:01.820 Now we see the change in this

01:11:03.480 country and its institutions

01:11:04.760 that have happened in five

01:11:06.060 years with 10% of a few,

01:11:08.780 right?

01:11:09.120 Like graduating cohorts of a

01:11:10.420 handful of colleges.

01:11:12.620 And the change is quite

01:11:14.160 stark, right?

01:11:15.560 And so, so the, uh, uh, so

01:11:19.740 what happens when the cohorts

01:11:21.260 are 30% true believers and

01:11:23.220 70% who have been trained

01:11:24.900 from kindergarten to know

01:11:28.140 that like, there are terrible

01:11:29.180 consequences that come from

01:11:31.320 like standing in opposition

01:11:32.280 to these ideas.

01:11:33.220 Well, we know that like the,

01:11:34.760 we know that that's going to

01:11:35.660 be enough to transform

01:11:36.900 things by orders of

01:11:37.980 magnitude more than has

01:11:39.900 already happened.

01:11:41.440 And so, you know, like, is

01:11:44.340 it going to result in total

01:11:45.400 failure?

01:11:45.760 There's this book called,

01:11:47.020 um, disabling America,

01:11:48.560 which is about the various

01:11:51.580 ways, the expansion of the

01:11:54.820 civil rights movement beyond

01:11:56.540 its original purpose, right?

01:11:58.180 Because the civil rights act

01:11:59.920 and the government apparatus

01:12:01.800 that was built around it was

01:12:04.060 designed to get rid of Jim Crow

01:12:05.920 and, and, and that was a,

01:12:08.720 was a good purpose.

01:12:09.660 It was a necessary purpose, but

01:12:11.780 then now it, but nobody

01:12:14.600 anticipated it in 1964 that a

01:12:17.360 judge would be determining what

01:12:19.700 bathroom, a high school in

01:12:21.700 Fairfax, Virginia, you know,

01:12:23.840 like that's a degree of

01:12:25.900 intervention that no one had

01:12:27.740 anticipated, but that like

01:12:29.540 emerged smoothly from the

01:12:31.800 matrix of the way bureaucratic

01:12:34.160 creep, legal mission creep,

01:12:36.700 right?

01:12:37.160 And, and, and just like

01:12:39.080 empowering through the force

01:12:41.720 of law, a set of legal on and

01:12:43.400 moral entrepreneurs who have

01:12:44.780 this paranoid echo chambered

01:12:47.660 vision of the world.

01:12:48.520 Um, and then who occupy certain

01:12:51.520 choke points of, uh, of various

01:12:55.480 institutions as society, what

01:12:56.780 they could do and, and, and

01:12:58.420 they could, they can, they can

01:13:00.020 conjure from out of nowhere, um,

01:13:03.860 some, a new identity that nobody

01:13:06.300 has heard of that everyone has to

01:13:09.500 tiptoe around, has to treat

01:13:11.480 piously or terrible consequences

01:13:13.720 will be imposed on them either by,

01:13:17.180 you know, online, uh, activists

01:13:20.520 or by the force of law.

01:13:23.400 Right.

01:13:23.760 And, and so the grow, the goal

01:13:25.020 eventually is to like embed

01:13:26.380 themselves within the law.

01:13:27.600 You know, the American Bar

01:13:28.760 Association is now considering a,

01:13:30.900 um, you know, a, uh, a measure

01:13:33.640 sort of that would mandate all

01:13:35.480 accredited law schools to, uh, to,

01:13:39.380 um, teach higher, uh, you know,

01:13:43.860 DEI consultants and teach people

01:13:46.620 anti-racist training.

01:13:47.960 And, and so increasingly they're,

01:13:50.540 they're trying to make it so that

01:13:52.040 if you want to participate in

01:13:53.640 certain desirable portions of

01:13:55.300 society, you must say the words

01:13:58.280 and, um, and, and your silence is

01:14:01.080 violence, right?

01:14:01.920 And so there's this at the, at the,

01:14:04.980 at the kind of highest level of, um,

01:14:08.240 of abstraction, you know, the

01:14:09.680 successor ideology says that we need

01:14:11.560 a radically less disciplinary society

01:14:13.460 of the street so that we'll, you

01:14:15.700 know, we're going to abolish police

01:14:16.720 and prisons, uh, in order to have a

01:14:19.500 totalizing solution to racial

01:14:21.700 disparities in, in, uh, in, in, in,

01:14:23.920 in law enforcement.

01:14:25.020 And what happens to crime?

01:14:26.360 I mean, it's like, truly, this is

01:14:28.020 what I'm confused about.

01:14:28.960 So, okay, let's get rid of the

01:14:29.860 police.

01:14:30.200 Let's get rid of the prisons.

01:14:31.560 And a radically more disciplinary

01:14:33.540 society of the workplace, bedroom,

01:14:35.720 and boardroom, because the real

01:14:37.080 problems in our society are Eurocentric,

01:14:40.620 racist, heteropatriarchy, right?

01:14:42.460 And so, and so a kind of redefinition

01:14:45.380 of where the evil is and a

01:14:46.920 redefinition of what has to be done

01:14:48.360 and, and, and what has to be done,

01:14:50.240 of course, in so far as one of the

01:14:52.960 premises of the movement is that we

01:14:54.440 all went through this vast

01:14:55.580 socialization process that made us

01:14:58.140 the, you know, the racist, sexist

01:15:00.440 bigots that we are, there needs to

01:15:02.020 be a research, a vast re-

01:15:04.100 socialization process starting at

01:15:06.540 infancy, right?

01:15:07.560 Anti-racist baby, right?

01:15:08.700 Starting at the very beginning and

01:15:12.340 in order to produce new people who

01:15:15.660 are cleansed of the problems of the

01:15:17.180 past.

01:15:17.600 And so what we've done is we've

01:15:19.120 taken the energy behind civil rights

01:15:21.720 and abolition and the kind of

01:15:23.060 righteous moral energy behind it.

01:15:25.120 And we've applied it to what we've

01:15:27.480 classified as a new sets of new set

01:15:29.560 of problems that we claim are as bad

01:15:31.840 as the old sets of problems.

01:15:33.240 And those problems are the existence

01:15:35.320 of police, the existence of prisons,

01:15:36.840 the existence of standardized tests, the

01:15:38.420 existence of borders, the existence of

01:15:42.640 binary differences in gender.

01:15:47.160 So we've taken all of these either.

01:15:49.900 So we've taken all of these institutions

01:15:52.940 without which a modern society can't

01:15:54.460 function, right?

01:15:55.680 Or police and prisons or these

01:15:59.400 practices without which, you know, you

01:16:02.260 you can't run a functional, you can't

01:16:04.680 run corporations functionally, the

01:16:06.240 meritocracy and so on.

01:16:07.720 We've declared them to be part of an

01:16:10.460 overall vast system of white supremacists

01:16:13.260 and cisgender patriarchal violence.

01:16:16.720 And we've said that, like, the purpose of the

01:16:20.080 American state and the purposes of American

01:16:21.880 corporations is to fight against these

01:16:24.280 things.

01:16:25.100 And yet we've somehow and we somehow sold all

01:16:27.080 those corporations on the idea that, like,

01:16:29.500 they're involved in this fight, too.

01:16:31.240 Right.

01:16:31.580 And and and and obviously in the process of making

01:16:39.680 that transition, you know, the original kind of

01:16:43.000 like ultimate radicalism of, you know, of these

01:16:47.200 movements is not going to be expressed, but it's

01:16:49.300 going to take a different form.

01:16:50.600 And that's what I mean when I say kind of soft,

01:16:53.320 bloodless inner Sovietization.

01:16:54.960 Like there's just going to be we're going to have a

01:16:57.080 more administrative society where if sometime in

01:17:01.420 the past, you know, you had to pledge allegiance or

01:17:05.620 whatever.

01:17:05.900 And to some people, that was an oppressive

01:17:08.480 imposition.

01:17:09.300 Now we will have to say various words.

01:17:12.440 People are already doing that.

01:17:14.060 Um, and and and and the point is, is that the goal is

01:17:19.640 to close the space in which people can manifest

01:17:24.160 resistance, in which people can speak resistance, in

01:17:27.000 which people can think.

01:17:28.960 And it's presented in such a way where, oh, this is

01:17:31.140 just benign.

01:17:31.620 This is just being a good person.

01:17:32.620 This is not being a shitty person.

01:17:33.960 Like, well, like, why do you want to why do you want

01:17:36.140 to exclude trans people and non-binary people by

01:17:39.160 insisting on a distinction?

01:17:41.020 Can it be stopped?

01:17:41.820 OK, because let's let's take white men out of it.

01:17:44.060 Even though we shouldn't.

01:17:44.840 White men should be able to voice their opinion on

01:17:47.260 this as well.

01:17:48.400 Um, but let's let's take all of us oppressed groups,

01:17:51.080 right?

01:17:51.340 You're you're Asian.

01:17:53.000 I'm I'm a woman.

01:17:55.200 We have at least a couple of points on the oppressed

01:17:57.740 scale.

01:17:58.920 Um, Andrew's gay.

01:18:00.460 I don't you know, all these things used to matter.

01:18:02.360 I don't know.

01:18:02.720 We're sort of less and less.

01:18:03.920 You have to have like the intersectionality.

01:18:05.760 Now you have to have at least two at a I don't know

01:18:08.740 if one puts you on the scale anymore, unless it's

01:18:10.880 skin color.

01:18:11.580 And you surely have felt the consequences visited on

01:18:13.740 you may may have, you know, been determined in part by

01:18:16.380 gender.

01:18:16.880 Right.

01:18:17.800 Definitely.

01:18:18.320 Who knows?

01:18:18.900 I mean, I just feel like, OK, so if the coalition that

01:18:21.760 they mean to protect, right, if people in the LGBTQ

01:18:25.160 community, people of color, minorities, women, whatever,

01:18:28.800 more and more start saying we don't believe in this, we

01:18:33.000 don't support you.

01:18:33.760 And as you point out earlier, most people do that, you

01:18:36.760 are not bored with this stuff.

01:18:38.660 The moment you do that, you become adjacent, you become an

01:18:40.860 enabler, you lose, you lose all, all legitimacy.

01:18:44.300 You, you look at like the Hispanics who voted for

01:18:46.360 Trump.

01:18:46.540 However, right.

01:18:47.720 So here's the thing.

01:18:48.600 Right.

01:18:49.000 So back in 1996.

01:18:51.240 Right.

01:18:52.140 California was had it was already they had made the demographic

01:18:58.660 tip.

01:18:59.260 Right.

01:18:59.400 They were less than 50 percent white.

01:19:00.740 Right.

01:19:01.200 But their electorate, because of the lag in registration and so on,

01:19:04.840 was was still majority white.

01:19:06.060 And so they voted to deny benefits to legal immigrants.

01:19:11.240 And they which was immediately overturned by a judge.

01:19:15.080 But they also voted to forbid affirmative action in hiring or

01:19:19.260 government contracting or other areas where racial preferences

01:19:22.140 were in place.

01:19:23.800 Right.

01:19:24.560 But, you know, the idea was, OK, you know, we already have this

01:19:28.380 demographic shift.

01:19:29.600 We're going to wait a couple of generations and then we'll come

01:19:32.520 back, take a second bite at the apple and, you know, we'll bring

01:19:35.160 back, you know, a racially gerrymandered society, you know, by

01:19:38.720 law.

01:19:40.240 And so, you know, in 2020, you know, they they issued a

01:19:45.660 referendum that would over they issued a referendum for a state

01:19:48.980 constitutional amendment that would overturn the previous

01:19:51.180 referendum that forbade affirmative action.

01:19:54.680 And the idea was to discriminate on the basis of race.

01:19:58.100 Yeah.

01:19:58.280 Well, now we have this like more diverse coalition electorate and

01:20:02.060 they're going to support it.

01:20:03.880 And of course, all the great and good of California society, all its

01:20:06.260 corporations lined up in support of it.

01:20:09.100 The spending of those who supported this measure to bring it back, you

01:20:15.540 know, outspent those who opposed it by a factor of nine to one.

01:20:20.980 But by an even greater supermajority than had had initially

01:20:26.340 forbid affirmative action, they shot down this attempt to bring it back.

01:20:29.860 And the supermajority with the Hispanics and Asians voted against it at even

01:20:37.640 greater numbers than than what Americans did.

01:20:40.840 So this is one of the few times a policy, this policy, which is mostly entirely the

01:20:47.480 purview of, you know, of CEOs and and college presidents.

01:20:52.240 And so it's not subject to democratic control.

01:20:55.560 But whenever they do subject it to democratic control, everybody always proceeds from the

01:21:02.140 basic moral intuition that like, you know, we're not we don't really support.

01:21:07.620 Right.

01:21:08.300 Like a society gerrymandered by race.

01:21:11.140 And it turned out to be the case that like the new nonwhite immigrants, nonwhite black

01:21:15.700 immigrants to the country are even more supportive of that than white Americans.

01:21:19.600 Right.

01:21:20.620 Like even more likely to reject that framing.

01:21:23.280 And I'm not saying I necessarily oppose affirmative action.

01:21:27.460 I take a kind of pragmatic view of things and I say, well, you know, at the margins, you

01:21:32.940 know, we want to ensure diversity where we can.

01:21:36.060 To some degree, we should be able to practice it, but it turns out to be the case, right?

01:21:41.880 That like when you actually ask people and give them a chance to manifest their preferences,

01:21:46.680 including Asian Americans and Hispanics, you know, they, for the most part, prefer a society

01:21:52.140 where you get where you are on the basis of the sweat of your brow rather than one where

01:21:57.180 a political entity discriminates in your favor for or against you on the basis of your

01:22:02.480 immutable identity.

01:22:03.200 For the most part, that intuition still exists, right?

01:22:08.080 Like within society.

01:22:09.960 And of course, like when you pull black people on whether they support affirmative action,

01:22:14.260 they're split 50 50 for the most part.

01:22:15.940 And so there's a lot more dissent within that community, right?

01:22:19.000 Then there is else than one would guess.

01:22:22.320 So who's in the now 10, you know, in the future, soon to be 30% of successor ideologists?

01:22:29.820 At this point, mostly people who directly, right?

01:22:35.520 Like make their living through the activist, nonprofit, federal government,

01:22:41.100 diversity, equity, and inclusion structure that's ever growing instructors.

01:22:45.520 So we have, we have a lot of like women college graduates who there's an ongoing national jobs

01:22:51.780 program on their behalf, right?

01:22:53.600 And, and, and so like much of this just really comes down to that, right?

01:22:58.740 Are they so well organized and so powerful that they've managed to cow all of media,

01:23:03.200 all of corporate America, all of sports?

01:23:05.620 I mean, these are, yes, these are amazing women.

01:23:08.280 I mean, you got to tip your hat to them.

01:23:09.860 The answer is yes, because they wield the kryptonite of the racism accusation, right?

01:23:16.560 And that kryptonite is in this context, especially the context that was radicalized by Trump.

01:23:23.240 And Trump was a necessary, I think, condition for the total takeover,

01:23:27.520 because he presented a plausible picture to many liberal normies who would not otherwise

01:23:34.460 have gone for this stuff, right?

01:23:37.540 Like he was the person that they could frame as the, the kind of fulfillment of all of their prophecies, right?

01:23:45.980 That in fact, the country remains at its core.

01:23:49.580 There's this thing at our core that we haven't purged.

01:23:52.640 He, or the caricature of him.

01:23:54.840 I mean, it's not to excuse anything and everything Trump ever did or said,

01:23:58.100 but, but as you point out earlier, they also made a caricature of him.

01:24:01.700 And then on top of everything, we haven't even mentioned the name George Floyd,

01:24:05.100 which really just, I mean, that, so I don't, I remember somebody asking me shortly after George

01:24:10.680 Floyd, do you think that this is going to stay, you know, this craziness we're going through right

01:24:14.020 now?

01:24:14.320 And I was like, I don't think so.

01:24:16.760 Dumb, wrong answer.

01:24:18.640 I mean, George Floyd was just the last light on the fire that, and it's, it continues to glow that

01:24:24.820 fire.

01:24:25.160 It's burning now.

01:24:25.820 So the University of California Regents, they told their, they told, they set up a commission

01:24:32.760 of their faculty to study whether or not the SAT was racist or whether they should keep

01:24:38.380 it, right?

01:24:38.820 And they, they, in like March of 2020, they, that faculty committee issued their recommendation,

01:24:45.520 which was to keep the SAT, right?

01:24:47.900 Like they studied it, they're experts and they concluded it's not racist.

01:24:53.720 It actually helps, uh, underrepresented minorities of promise be discovered.

01:24:59.360 It doesn't, um, you know, it is useful.

01:25:03.240 It actually tells us important information that we need and evaluate our candidates.

01:25:07.000 Ergo, we should keep the test, right?

01:25:08.840 That was that recommendation.

01:25:09.800 And that recommendation, you know, was likely going to, you know, be acted upon because they

01:25:16.380 had been empowered with that purpose to provide the decisive, relevant, um, analysis, March

01:25:22.780 2020, right?

01:25:23.820 And then like a few months later, you know, this thing is out there, like, you know, the

01:25:28.020 country explodes into, you know, several months of chaos and the thing is out the window,

01:25:33.700 right?

01:25:34.400 And so you have all of these other effects, ultimately the defund thing, there've been

01:25:40.920 some experiments with it, but, you know, but it's overwhelmingly unpopular, including

01:25:45.740 with, including with black people, right?

01:25:48.080 So like they did it, like, you know, Reuters did a poll and they found that 80% of black

01:25:53.500 respondents wanted the same amount of police protection or more, right?

01:25:58.580 So it doesn't have support anywhere within the society.

01:26:02.420 Um, and it doesn't have, you know, it doesn't have support among the relevant demographic

01:26:10.420 on whose ostensible behalf, this proposal is being made by a handful of radical activists

01:26:16.000 in their midst to pretend to represent them without actually being representative of their

01:26:20.100 views at all.

01:26:21.000 Right.

01:26:21.900 And so that the democratic party is bowing to those poll numbers and now they're saying,

01:26:26.240 oh, it's Trump that defunded the police or whatever Republican, because they, you know,

01:26:30.280 and so like they, they, they are refunding the police and all of these cities, which is

01:26:34.380 hopeful, right?

01:26:35.040 It's like, okay, let's put this, these strategies to the test.

01:26:37.760 Let's do what these crazy people want.

01:26:39.900 It's failing and it makes, but, but when you have so many institutions being controlled by

01:26:46.160 the messaging of these people, you know, I have three kids in K through 12 education

01:26:50.840 right now.

01:26:51.240 It's terrifying what they're teaching these kids.

01:26:53.220 It's, I, I just don't, I don't know where it's going.

01:26:57.520 And I wonder whether each of these organizations will suffer a backlash like defunded police

01:27:01.800 did.

01:27:02.840 I'm just curious, how are your kids and the other students that they're friends with?

01:27:06.580 How are they, how are they, like, are they buying it?

01:27:08.640 Are they like, what?

01:27:09.580 No, I mean, my kids roll their eyes because they have me and my husband, you know, and so

01:27:13.840 we counter program at home and we don't, we're careful not to be too ideologically hard the

01:27:18.860 other way because we don't want when they get to their teenage years, rebellious teens

01:27:22.660 to say, guess what?

01:27:23.840 I'm suddenly trans and I'm, I'm joining BLM and I believe in birthing people.

01:27:28.640 You know, we don't want to create a situation where just to irritate us.

01:27:31.760 They do that, but we talk to them about both sides and the reasoning and the way things used

01:27:36.420 to be and what's happening right now.

01:27:38.020 And they're smart and they get it.

01:27:39.320 And we don't let them spend hours and hours on YouTube where they get indoctrinated and

01:27:43.340 so on.

01:27:43.640 And they tell us what they're hearing in class and which Wesley is one of the, it is the reason

01:27:48.460 we pulled our kids out of these New York City private schools.

01:27:50.740 I mean, we just, we just pulled them.

01:27:52.160 We're moving them now when we were pretty open in seeking new schools with the administrators

01:27:56.160 about what we did not want.

01:27:57.960 Were you able to find non, non taken over alternatives?

01:28:01.800 Well, I mean, we're, we're just getting started, so we'll see.

01:28:04.080 But right now I'm hopeful about where we're going because we, we sort of did a cards on

01:28:08.020 the table with the administrators of the new school saying, just want to look, we're

01:28:12.680 fine with people who are progressive.

01:28:15.340 We're not okay with indoctrinating ideology being shoved down the throats of our children.

01:28:20.080 That's, that's not the school's job.

01:28:22.060 And I think our schools that we're going to agree with that, but I just, we're in the

01:28:26.920 minority now, right?

01:28:28.000 Like you, you see the news every day.

01:28:30.340 So I just, I wonder if it's reversible when it comes to media, corporate America, sports,

01:28:35.340 Hollywood, um, you know, the universities K through 12, like I don't think 10, 15 years,

01:28:41.600 where are we on this?

01:28:42.600 I'm not sure if it's reversible, but like, look, there was an inflection point, right?

01:28:47.080 Where in comedy, comedy hit it earlier, right?

01:28:50.300 Where you're not allowed to like anyone who's funny.

01:28:52.340 And literally the only person you're allowed to like is this like lesbian haranguing you

01:28:57.860 about abuse.

01:28:59.340 Right.

01:28:59.760 And, and, and not like everybody, everybody who's funny still has huge audiences.

01:29:07.220 And anytime they do anything, but you know, like Chappelle with Netflix and so on, like

01:29:11.340 it's a, it's a massive success.

01:29:13.060 Right.

01:29:13.460 And then, and so you have this kind of like rotten tomatoes phenomenon where like the

01:29:17.940 critics all panned him, but like, you know, it's, it's like a hundred percent from the

01:29:22.560 populace.

01:29:23.200 And so this goes with the affirmative action thing that I was talking about previously,

01:29:25.900 you know, that like, there's this solid consensus among those who deem themselves the

01:29:30.040 elite.

01:29:30.340 And then, and then they, you put it to a vote and of course the people put it to a vote,

01:29:35.420 but then the UC system, they got rid of the SAT.

01:29:37.860 And so they're going to annul the vote, right?

01:29:39.600 Like in practice, and they're just going to go ahead and do whatever they want.

01:29:42.760 And so this is what I mean, like successor ideology, we have to understand is not about

01:29:47.100 winning elections.

01:29:47.680 Like a bunch of democratic candidates in the primary in 2020 made the mistake of thinking

01:29:51.680 that they could run an election by like being like, Oh, I'm Christian Gillibrand.

01:29:55.320 I'm a white woman.

01:29:55.960 I can help white women understand.

01:29:58.000 My pronouns are she, her.

01:29:59.720 Right.

01:30:00.120 Yeah.

01:30:00.280 All that stuff.

01:30:01.360 Right.

01:30:01.700 And all of them, many of whom were seen as like serious candidates at the start, like,

01:30:06.800 you know, dropped out very early on when their polling was in the low two to 3%.

01:30:11.620 So what does that mean?

01:30:12.740 That means that like, even the democratic party primary electorate, it's most dedicated

01:30:19.160 partisans have no more taste for this than anybody else does.

01:30:23.260 Right.

01:30:23.400 So like, even though this, this is, this fails at the, you know, this fails at the electoral

01:30:29.260 booth, why do they then exercise so much power?

01:30:33.400 It's because it is a system that's based upon seizing choke points in various bureaucracies,

01:30:38.940 right?

01:30:39.120 Like the American Bar Association, the American Medical Association, right?

01:30:42.640 The staff of the staff of the Lancet and the, and the New England Journal of Medicine.

01:30:48.580 Right.

01:30:49.120 And so, so it isn't about seeking, it's a category mistake to think that this thing is

01:30:55.460 going to have their president, which is why sort of Kamala, which why everybody's now freaking

01:30:59.900 out about Kamala Harris, in addition to her, just like, you know, by all accounts, just being

01:31:03.800 like a horror, you know, horrible person, you know, from all of her staffers, 30 people

01:31:09.900 do not go on the record.

01:31:11.800 You know, do not talk to reporters to say that you're a horrible person if you aren't.

01:31:16.420 And, and, and when you are the hope of the, you know, when you are the hope, you know,

01:31:21.900 when you are the sort of designated next nominee, it's one of the reasons why people know that

01:31:25.700 she's like a serious liability because she doesn't have any record other than her identity

01:31:30.820 based appeal.

01:31:31.700 Right.

01:31:32.100 And, and so they know that she's a problem, but it doesn't matter because ultimately the

01:31:37.860 system, like, like these moral entrepreneurs don't thrive by winning elections.

01:31:42.000 They thrive by capturing the person who runs the office of civil rights, right.

01:31:47.820 Within the education department and so on.

01:31:50.020 And so that other level is where all of their power is concentrated when a Democrat wins, usually

01:31:59.720 by other appeals.

01:32:00.620 And so they, you know, they use a guy like Biden who clearly, you know, you know, does,

01:32:05.780 is seen as, as not being identified, you know, with the successor coalition.

01:32:11.100 But they're part of his coalition.

01:32:13.180 And so when a client comes time to give out the job, when a client comes time to give out

01:32:17.300 the job, like the sex, they tried to cancel him with their, you know, with Kamala tried

01:32:21.800 to cancel him, right.

01:32:22.780 With, you know, with his record, which indeed actually is quite problematic, right.

01:32:27.580 Like, like the, the, the, the, the great irony of this great awokening was that it resulted

01:32:33.860 in the, in the installment into office of the man who is as responsible as Bill Clinton, as

01:32:41.400 any other single person for the, for the, for the 1994 crime bill that is held to be the

01:32:47.180 basis of mass incarceration, as we understand it.

01:32:49.620 So you have all of these ironies, you know, they don't win elections, but the march through

01:32:55.480 institution keeps going through what can happen?

01:32:58.120 What actually stops that?

01:33:00.440 That's the question that you're asking.

01:33:02.600 And the, the, the only thing that I can think of, if one were to actually wanted to reverse

01:33:08.960 this would be like, you know, it would, it would be the right would have to become as radically

01:33:20.880 illiberal as the left has, and they would have to win power.

01:33:24.700 And they would have to purge the people who are purging everybody else.

01:33:28.440 Like, that's actually the answer.

01:33:30.380 And I don't know.

01:33:31.140 Cancel the cancelers?

01:33:32.120 I don't, I don't know.

01:33:33.140 Like people who don't believe in the idea of free speech and discussion, right.

01:33:37.240 Like there has to be a criteria, a litmus test, but like, we're not going to take you

01:33:40.780 on because if we do, you're going to dominate everybody else and you're going to cancel everyone

01:33:44.020 and replace them because this is the pattern, right.

01:33:46.860 And, and so how does one coexist in a liberal society with deeply illiberal ideologies and

01:33:54.600 those who support it?

01:33:56.480 Popular support of the kind that I've described has some role.

01:33:59.420 And the fact that like, oh, people are not really actually into this, including people

01:34:05.460 of color, including black people, right.

01:34:07.720 Like they don't actually buy this unity of all oppression narrative because it is simply

01:34:13.600 not true, right.

01:34:16.260 You know, that means something, but it actually means less than you would think.

01:34:22.140 That's what we've learned because it's all about like specific incentives.

01:34:27.720 It's like, how did that, how did that publisher, why did that publisher who wanted to publish

01:34:32.140 this thing that clearly was fine and was not offensive?

01:34:36.040 Why did that book get killed?

01:34:37.040 I don't know if he faced consequences, maybe he did or didn't, but certainly the mere fact

01:34:40.920 of being reporting is a kind of punishment itself, like the process is a punishment and,

01:34:45.400 and, and, um, sends a message to him and to everybody else about what they're allowed

01:34:49.780 to do and not do.

01:34:51.240 And so I did, but I just feel like a social Darwinism, Darwinism will win out in the end.

01:34:57.400 You know, that the fittest will ultimately prevail here.

01:35:00.040 The people who are mentally tough, the people who fight for these ideals over time, they just

01:35:05.300 have like the kids are going to have to see what nonsense this is and how they don't

01:35:09.660 want to live in this non-free world.

01:35:12.620 It's not in their DNA as Americans that the kids are going to fight back.

01:35:16.340 The kids are going to see that this is bullshit and start, start fighting.

01:35:20.280 And it's not cool to be woke at some point that's going to happen.

01:35:23.640 And like, we can't just have surrendered to this nonsense, wokeism in every institution.

01:35:29.760 And then that's the norm forever in America.

01:35:31.940 I just, it doesn't sound like us.

01:35:34.000 There's, there's certain green shoots that people point to, right?

01:35:37.820 There, uh, there's polling that shows that, uh, Gen Z, for example, are, are more concerned

01:35:44.940 about or more opposed to cancel culture, uh, than any other generational cohort.

01:35:49.340 Uh, this is often because like young Gen Z people will often have like five or six friends

01:35:54.460 who have been canceled.

01:35:55.240 Um, and, and, uh, but, uh, at the same time, like they're opposed to cancel culture, but

01:36:02.040 like, they just asked the question, are you opposed to cancel culture?

01:36:05.040 Right.

01:36:05.240 They don't define what it means.

01:36:07.120 So for many of them, the baseline, like many of the hyper progressive views are their baseline.

01:36:11.880 Right.

01:36:12.300 And so like they define cancel culture as the, maybe the excessively punitive or vindictive

01:36:18.080 approach, but like, you know, they definitely all just believe, right.

01:36:23.560 That like, that Trump's a racist and yeah, all these deplorables who supported him are

01:36:28.820 terrible.

01:36:29.360 Well, even more than that, they believe, they believe that like trans women are women, right?

01:36:34.600 Like, and you are a bigot if you, if you dissent from that.

01:36:37.860 And, and so like, you know, famously, um, you know, the, the author of the book, uh, the

01:36:43.860 African author of the book, uh, Chimamanda Adichie, who, you know, she was a, she was a,

01:36:49.620 I saw this Twitter world.

01:36:50.800 She was, yeah, no, she was a celebrity of the previous, she was a celebrity of the circa

01:36:55.420 2017 successor coalition as the author of the book, we should all be feminists.

01:37:00.100 Um, but you know, she made the public statement, you know, trans women are trans women.

01:37:04.580 That was her statement.

01:37:05.820 She was saying trans women are fine and I'm going to treat them as they want to be treated.

01:37:10.640 And they're actually entitled to that treatment, but they're not women.

01:37:16.200 There's something other than women.

01:37:17.680 They are another category of thing that I'm going to recognize.

01:37:21.000 I'm going to give rights to them.

01:37:22.540 I'm going to be kind to them, but they're not this other thing, right?

01:37:27.400 This other thing actually has a meaning.

01:37:29.140 Like that's what she was saying.

01:37:30.300 And of course she, you know, she, she, uh, her prior celebrity within the successor coalition

01:37:36.040 means nothing, right?

01:37:37.220 It doesn't, doesn't give her the ability to carry anyone along with her.

01:37:40.900 The author of the handmaid's tale, right?

01:37:43.140 Wrote a piece called, am I a bad feminist?

01:37:44.780 Because she defended the due process rights of a professor who is accused of rape.

01:37:49.600 And, you know, you have to get into details of these things, but she reached the conclusion

01:37:54.840 based upon, you know, close scrutiny of the determination that was made by the university

01:38:01.280 that found him to be not culpable of what he was accused of, right?

01:38:05.240 Like she made the determination that like, oh, this person is determined to a process.

01:38:09.020 This is what the process found.

01:38:10.860 We should accept that the process was probably accurate.

01:38:17.160 And I think her own judgment was that like, if you look at actually, if you actually look

01:38:20.660 at the process, like pretty much seems like he was wrongly accused of something that he

01:38:25.840 did not do.

01:38:26.480 But in any case, she was like, you know, we live in a society of laws, there are processes

01:38:31.840 and this person was down to be guilty, like that actually matters, right?

01:38:35.420 And of course, on the basis of that, the authors of the handmaid's tale, right?

01:38:39.180 Like, is this like, is this problematic figure from the previous generation?

01:38:44.540 So, so like, what is like, you know, will, is normalcy going to return?

01:38:53.980 So like, look, we went through that crossover that I described in comedy and in other areas,

01:39:01.640 right?

01:39:01.960 And so like, and so like, we have people on Substack who are kind of, you know, who are

01:39:07.420 not part of, including myself, Wesley Yang.substack.com, who are not really part of this and who

01:39:12.580 are scrutinizing it and who are resisting it, right?

01:39:15.440 And, and the people at the top of that leaderboard, you know, they make a million a year, right?

01:39:18.980 Like they make 10 times what the kind of journalists at BuzzFeed make.

01:39:22.020 And so what does this show?

01:39:24.640 This shows that there is popular demand for this, right?

01:39:27.420 And this popular demand encompasses audiences that are possibly multiples the size, right?

01:39:33.600 Of the, of what manages to deem itself mainstream, and that still has control over disciplinary

01:39:40.020 society.

01:39:40.680 And so the question is, is there a way to detach that small and shrinking, but still quite

01:39:48.780 large audience, right?

01:39:50.160 There was a poll recently that found that like 65% of the public doesn't really buy mainstream

01:39:56.280 media, but that 35% encompasses, you know, we know that the 35% encompasses all the great

01:40:04.440 and good of this society, right?

01:40:06.360 And all those who aspire to graduate from Ivy League colleges and become the, the, the,

01:40:12.780 the, the, and so the question is, is there a preference cascade?

01:40:16.840 Because, you know, there, there, there, there, there are inflection points and there are moments

01:40:21.140 where someone takes a stand and, and, and, and people feel safe.

01:40:26.380 There's a structure where people are safe and they feel, you know, the, the example of just

01:40:30.960 within the private schools, I think is instructive, right?

01:40:34.180 It's like, one would think that, you know, you could go on TV, you could say the insane things

01:40:39.040 that are being taught there and then people would be empowered and they would awaken and

01:40:43.560 they would, and they would, they would alter the dynamics, but we see that there are institutional

01:40:47.780 factors that have prevented that from happening, right?

01:40:49.700 And that we see that all of the movement within those institutions are such that it's about

01:40:53.680 entrenching the powers.

01:40:55.000 And so ultimately, like the answer will have to be alternative structures of legitimacy.

01:41:01.120 Uh, and, and of course, part of the intensification of the moralization around this, the reason,

01:41:08.000 so they become like more powerful, they become more brittle, they be, but they become more

01:41:12.180 susceptible to building alternatives.

01:41:14.300 But like, I don't really see much in terms of like building alternatives.

01:41:17.240 I see people talking about Bitcoin and stuff like that.

01:41:20.180 And, uh, you know, I, you know, I don't know if there's an answer there.

01:41:24.420 I'm not adept enough, uh, in that world to see it.

01:41:27.080 I know that people who are a Bitcoin rich see themselves as kind of like they live in

01:41:31.240 our society, but not among us.

01:41:32.700 And that they're going to be the basis of the next revolution.

01:41:35.480 I'm skeptical, but just because like, I don't really know enough about it.

01:41:39.240 No, but if you look at our history, Wes, if you look at a country that did have the Jim

01:41:42.540 Crow South, right.

01:41:43.400 That, I mean, for God's sake, at one point did have slavery.

01:41:46.580 If we can change from, from being those people, right.

01:41:49.800 To having civil rights law, to having equality in the, in the country, not perfect, but pretty

01:41:54.380 damn good, um, then we can change from this nonsense back to, if not what we had before

01:42:00.200 with due process and free speech and respect for others and, uh, ideological diversity

01:42:04.920 and debate, something close to it.

01:42:07.560 I mean, I just don't believe that we as a society are going to settle on this absurdity

01:42:13.600 as our new reality and let the upper West side women in their Lululemon doormen protected

01:42:20.240 buildings succeed with taking away the police and pushing racial quote diversity on people

01:42:26.460 who are actually thinking more about merit and hard work.

01:42:31.560 The police thing is basically gone.

01:42:33.080 There'll be some more experiments around it, but like, you know, 2020 saw our murder rate

01:42:39.340 go above 20,000 in the country, reaching a level that it, that idea failed, that it had

01:42:45.280 not been at since like, you know, the late nineties.

01:42:48.000 And so on the other hand, like progressive prosecutors who are, you know, those, those

01:42:53.000 guys are going on strong, you know, the, the percentage of people for now, for now, but

01:42:58.060 the, the, it's going to come back to them too.

01:43:00.580 I mean, if you're light on crime and you're in a city where the crime rate is up, you know,

01:43:04.380 20, 30%, like it is in most of our major towns, you're going to get bounced out of

01:43:08.220 there.

01:43:08.560 I mean, that's just, well, that's why I'm talking about like social Darwinism.

01:43:11.220 Eventually people are going to say, I don't want that.

01:43:14.080 And they're going to say, and by the way, I'm allowed to have whatever the hell opinion

01:43:17.580 I want.

01:43:18.280 This is America.

01:43:20.180 Well, so, and, uh, and, you know, Eric Adams, of course, you know, ran, was the sole candidate

01:43:25.540 running on the strong sort of anti-crime.

01:43:27.440 And so, you know, he, he is cited by many as an example.

01:43:32.320 However, Larry Krasner in Philadelphia, which saw like 20, 30% rises in the murder rate and

01:43:36.560 other crimes and who was one of the part of the vanguard of, um, you know, he was up for

01:43:41.120 election and he won by even more than he did before.

01:43:43.700 And the reason behind this is that such a small percentage of the electorate actually

01:43:48.580 pays attention or votes, uh, in these prosecutor elections that successor ideologists have

01:43:54.960 showed that they can game the system.

01:43:56.680 They have much more energy, uh, you know, behind them and they can, they can win these races.

01:44:02.620 They can win, and this is what happened in San Francisco where nobody pays attention to

01:44:06.340 the school board elections until you suddenly find yourself right with, uh, with, uh, you

01:44:12.140 know, a vice president of the school board that like get rid, get, gets rid of merit-based

01:44:16.180 admissions at Lowell high school that, that, that, uh, votes to, you know, cover over a painting

01:44:22.120 because it was supposedly emotionally triggering because it included a, uh, you know, a picture

01:44:27.980 of a slave and an Indian on it, uh, like suddenly you find yourself, uh, you know, at the mercy

01:44:33.860 of all this, but like the overall kind of background progressivism of the city is such

01:44:38.640 that like, oh, it turns out like people are willing to like keep voting in crazy people,

01:44:43.520 even if they don't necessarily support them.

01:44:45.660 Now it is true that like, you know, we have parents that are, and I, you know, I'm going

01:44:50.500 to be reporting on this in my sub stack who are, you know, they're seeking the, uh,

01:44:54.260 the recall of the, of the DA, uh, and, and seeking a recall of the school board.

01:45:00.240 Um, and, and so ultimately in response, you know, to your question, people have to become

01:45:07.760 as passionate about their own values as their opponents are passionate about theirs.

01:45:14.180 So we, we have this problem where you have like 80% of the people believe something, but

01:45:18.920 they believe it kind of passively because it has never been challenged.

01:45:21.680 Right. And so they're not used to articulating a defense of due process.

01:45:25.920 Like, like we, we, we are a country that gives people due process.

01:45:28.800 Right. And, and, and you're a little taken aback.

01:45:31.280 There's like an aggressor's advantage to those who are saying, well, actually, you know, that

01:45:35.200 makes you like pro-rape or whatever.

01:45:37.000 And you are taken aback and you are not, you're not ready to kind of like defend the principle.

01:45:43.060 Um, because you're, and then it turns out that like, you're the one getting fired, not the,

01:45:48.020 not the other person. Right. And so, you know, in support of your idea, like people have to become

01:45:55.300 as passionate and defensive ideas, such as like, Oh, the ability to kind of like

01:46:00.740 share cultural practices.

01:46:03.860 They're getting the tools though. Look, just look at the past year in critical race theory,

01:46:07.180 because reading you is interesting. Cause I would have thought a lot of this was just thrown at us

01:46:11.360 after George Floyd. But the more you read Wesley Yang, the more you realize and listen to him,

01:46:15.800 even here, this has been coming for a while. And prior to the past year, we didn't even

01:46:21.300 understand. I think we sort of people who are not in the academic world, what is critical race

01:46:26.100 theory? What, and, and yes, it's being used as a bucket to encompass a lot right now that's

01:46:30.120 happening in the schools because there's not a better short form to just capture all the craziness

01:46:34.760 and racial division. But most people in America probably know what that is now or have a general idea

01:46:39.860 and didn't a year ago. So that's, it's happening, right? There are warriors on the side of reason

01:46:46.660 who are trying to give people the tools to fight back, whether it's, um, uh, Robert George's group

01:46:53.260 inside of Princeton for academic freedom, trying to help students and professors who are being

01:46:57.500 muzzled or forced to accept these crazy ideologies or, uh, fair, you know, foundation against intolerance

01:47:04.160 and racism, which is trying to help parents and schools learn the language and understand how to fight

01:47:07.920 back against this discrimination and so on. Like it's happening. It's just, it's the birth of it

01:47:14.260 right now because the, the problem has never become so in our faces during COVID and so on.

01:47:19.540 It's happening. And the democratic party knows that it's an electoral problem. And so, uh,

01:47:25.140 that's good. There is this problem where they know it's electoral problem,

01:47:28.180 but the response is going to be as with Biden, right? Like to get some acceptable figurehead,

01:47:34.240 uh, who, who then will be in a position to, you know, install their people, you know,

01:47:38.520 within the administration. And, and, and so it's really that, that, that, that, that is,

01:47:43.580 it is the issue. It's a matter of inter elite politics. And the question is whether inter elite

01:47:48.080 politics are totally lost. Right. And it feels kind of like they are on the other hand, like,

01:47:54.220 look, if you know, the inside of academia and legal academia and so on, you know, that there still

01:48:00.320 is a super majority of people who are, who don't really buy this stuff, but who are like,

01:48:04.960 are afraid to stand in opposition to it. So it's the same as if they supported it, but like,

01:48:08.460 people don't actually buy it. Okay. Like you go to the UC Berkeley sociality department,

01:48:14.120 a super majority of the people there don't buy it. And of course, and there was a poll about

01:48:18.040 political correctness, you know, and it found that like, you know, like 75%, like two, like 75% of

01:48:25.120 black people responding to the question, you know, do you think the correctness has gone too far?

01:48:28.520 Agree that it has. Okay. And like Hispanics, 82% of Hispanics agree with that. And like 89% of

01:48:37.080 Native Americans agree with it. In fact, Native Americans, like we're the group that like agreed

01:48:41.420 most strongly with the idea that like political correctness has gone too far. So like more than

01:48:45.520 white people, right? Like these other, like these other forms of non-white diversity, like are opposed

01:48:49.940 to what political correctness has turned into. And, you know, cause it's not just about like

01:48:55.180 politeness and so on. It's about, it's about, you know, saying the words and compelling speech

01:49:01.760 and belief and no one likes it. So the fact that it's like politically a liability and the fact that

01:49:08.600 democratic knows the democratic party knows that it's a political liability and the fact, uh, you know,

01:49:13.680 all, and the fact that like one, like everyone who is able to muster the kind of cojones to, um,

01:49:22.480 endure social death and then emerge on the other side, you know, like hugely profits, right? Like

01:49:29.500 everyone that manages to do those things. Um, all of this is in favor of the fact that like, we have

01:49:36.420 the raw material of real preference caste state. My only proviso is that, no, this is actually about

01:49:41.980 like elite politics, uh, in various, you know, in very restricted settings that manages to go on

01:49:50.940 remote control. And if you sort of look at the, you look at the politics of the white wing of the West

01:49:56.560 wing, it was, that was the politics that, that, you know, that presaged what successor ideology

01:50:04.160 became and, and sort of, as the country became more integrated, more diverse, you know, less bigoted.

01:50:09.480 And it actually turned out to be the case that like conservatives and Republicans are more likely

01:50:13.740 to be in racially mixed families than, than liberals are, uh, like as it became all of this. Yes. Yes.

01:50:19.880 There's some finding to this, to this effect. Um, and, uh, and so like all of the data always,

01:50:27.040 always upends the conventional wisdom. So, you know, we discover, you know, three percent of, uh,

01:50:33.580 Hispanics, you know, use the term, the tinks, uh, 97% do not, uh, you know, we, we find,

01:50:39.680 uh, you know, and, and we find that, um, uh, there was another, uh, amazing finding that, uh,

01:50:47.540 essentially it was a content analysis that showed that liberals

01:50:52.940 reduced the complexity of their speech when they talked to minorities and conservatives did not.

01:51:00.460 Basically like liberals proceed from the implicit assumption that they have to dumb themselves down

01:51:06.020 when they talk to people of color and in a way that, uh, conservatives do not. Uh, and so all of

01:51:14.320 the data and then the kind of 80% of blacks want as much or as more policing, all of the data always

01:51:21.020 shows always, it's always a bloodbath, right? Like when it comes to these questions. And yet my point is,

01:51:28.120 is that the nature of this policy is that it is counter-majoritarian, it is counter democratic at

01:51:33.520 principle and in practice. And so, and so it, it, it, it calls for not just like people figuring out

01:51:42.240 what they believe it calls for like taking effectual action at the level of education schools at the

01:51:48.680 level. Like it calls for, it calls for like cleaning the stables. And, and I am not, you know,

01:51:57.460 I'm not an activist. I'm not Chris Rufo. I'm not one of the people that is like seeking this war or

01:52:02.260 this fight. I am an intellectual who's, who stands at some degree and tries to produce understanding of

01:52:08.220 these things. But my understanding is, Oh, if you actually want to rid yourself of these things,

01:52:11.840 it's not enough to win elections. It's like, when you win elections, you have to know what you

01:52:15.780 have to do with your power. Trump had absolutely no idea what to do with his power. He found out

01:52:20.040 about critical race theory, watching Fox news, right? Like watching Chris Russo on Fox news on

01:52:24.940 Tucker, like two months before he left office and then suddenly whatever, like tried to make an issue

01:52:30.020 out of it and did some stuff around it. You know, threw together some hasty stuff about it. It's like

01:52:35.440 the next, and I think like there are certain candidates who are very conscious of this, right? Like

01:52:41.220 people like JD Vance and so on. And I, and I don't know to what degree that they are contenders,

01:52:45.160 but like they're coming in with a plan where like, they're going to enter, they're going to enter

01:52:50.020 government knowing how it works and knowing how to, knowing how to clean the stables. And like,

01:52:56.240 that actually is, is, is what it would have to take. You, you actually have to remove the source

01:53:01.680 of the, the power from where it emerges. And the source of that power is the media on the one hand,

01:53:10.920 it's the legal system on the other hand. And it's the, it's this kind of interest group that I've

01:53:17.880 described that, that includes kind of ideological hit men of various stripes.

01:53:26.460 Don't leave me now. We got more coming up in 60 seconds.

01:53:29.020 The media is being hobbled bit by bit. I mean, we see that daily. And then, I mean,

01:53:37.060 the numbers on cable news right now are dreadful. If I got anything that I'm seeing over on MSNBC or

01:53:43.080 CNN on any night I was on the Kelly, they would have fired my ass. I would have been so fired.

01:53:47.120 I never came close to these dismal numbers that you're seeing in the primetime CNN and MSNBC.

01:53:50.980 It's just horrible. So the people are having their say and moving to different platforms. Fox is still

01:53:56.040 hanging in there, but they're, they have a monopoly on the entire right wing. Right? So it's like,

01:54:00.380 of course they're going to do well, but though, though less well than they were under Trump.

01:54:04.280 But people like, you know, the podcast world, you've got the Ben Shapiros of the world.

01:54:08.420 I'm out there. You've got Candace Owens. You've got a lot of people in the podcast world who are

01:54:12.400 doing, not to mention Joe Rogan, sort of the God of podcasting, who's got huge numbers,

01:54:17.540 substack for writers. These alternate lanes are developing and becoming incredibly popular.

01:54:23.680 And soon it's going to be more popular. And then in the legal world, yes, we have more and more

01:54:29.140 judges who are being told in law school these days that they have to, you know, racism's got to be

01:54:34.000 the prism through which they see everything and so on, even though that's not allowed. I mean,

01:54:37.720 there's pushback on that too. The push you just talked about with the Bar Association,

01:54:41.540 the ABA is trying to mandate anti-racism and affirmative training. And already you're seeing

01:54:47.020 schools like Yale Law push back and say, not appropriate. And that's a, that's a liberal

01:54:50.780 organization. So there's promise. But my point I'm trying to make is the Supreme Court is conservative.

01:54:55.280 The Supreme Court has six conservatives on it right now. And they're, you know, for the most part,

01:54:58.980 pretty young other than, uh, C bones, Clarence Thomas. Um, I know, I mean, that's what we call

01:55:04.200 them anyway. Um, my point is they're still the ultimate authority on what the law is. And so as many

01:55:12.000 young justices as, you know, married judges who may be coming into the, uh, system leaning left,

01:55:17.940 they're not in control right now. Right. So there's, we have this funny moment where

01:55:22.540 this, this, the, the, the successor ideologists within government are willing to act in defiance

01:55:30.100 of previous limitations on the scope of affirmative action. Right. So they, they, um, they, um,

01:55:38.260 they gave out vaccines by race in Vermont. The federal government gave out, uh, you know,

01:55:42.560 bank loan forgiveness programs only for black people. Um, and you know, the courts, the courts

01:55:48.380 put a stop, put a place in injunction on that. Right. And they, but the point is, there's this

01:55:52.420 willingness in the government to push further, but it's happening at the same moment where like the

01:55:57.140 Harvard Asian American lawsuit is, is, is, you know, going to come up right in the next couple

01:56:02.520 of years. And then we're going to see what the court is willing to do. Right. So like Fisher versus

01:56:06.500 Texas, which many people saw, you know, this was a previous challenge in 2015. It came up in the

01:56:11.400 summer of 2015 to the very height of the black lives matter stuff. And, you know, Anthony Kennedy,

01:56:16.260 who had never written an opinion in supportive affirmative action was the fifth vote or the

01:56:20.920 fourth vote on a four, two decision. Uh, Scalia died in the midst of the deliberation and, and, uh,

01:56:28.680 and, and Kennedy made his switch, which happened right. Like at the height of, uh, at the height of,

01:56:35.740 uh, protest in the street. So what's going to be happening, right. When, when the Harvard Asian

01:56:42.080 American lawsuit, which is calling for, you know, a prohibition on affirmative action, you know, the,

01:56:48.480 the, the, the, the, the last in 2003, Sandra Day O'Connor, you know, wrote a previous decision

01:56:54.660 on affirmative action, sort of giving it a green light and another lease on life at the time when the

01:56:59.900 university of Michigan case challenging it. And she said, you know, this, this policy, you know,

01:57:06.040 we're going to look at sunsetting it around 2028. Um, and now it's 18 years after that. And we're,

01:57:13.500 we're closing in on 2028 and the Harvard Asian American lawsuit is coming to a six, three conservative

01:57:19.260 court that has Clarence Thomas sitting on it. And of course, his entire purpose of his career was to,

01:57:25.460 was to get a chance to do this. And, and so we're, we'll see if he, we'll see if he's going to do

01:57:31.240 Roberts, who's been a little squishier, um, not on some issues that are near and dear to conservatives,

01:57:37.400 not on this issue. I mean, I sat in the high court when they heard that case and he said, uh, shortly

01:57:42.960 after he ascended to the bench, he said, um, you know, the, the answer to discrimination is not more

01:57:47.720 discrimination. The way you stop discrimination is not by, to keep, is not, um, to keep discriminating.

01:57:53.120 And he, he's not going to have a tolerance for this. So the, at the top, the legal system is

01:57:58.960 still balanced in favor of a more conservative federalist society worldview. Right. And that

01:58:05.160 gives me comfort. So in 1980, in the early eighties, critical race theory started its march to

01:58:11.260 institutions, right? At the same time, the federal society started its kind of attempt to recapture

01:58:17.080 the court for conservatives. And in 2019, right around the time Kavanaugh was put in office,

01:58:23.100 both of those things, though, both of those marches through the institutions

01:58:29.220 pretty much attained their goals, right? Like conservatives finally, conservatives finally won

01:58:36.200 control of the courts. Liberals finally, or not liberals or, you know, sort of progressives,

01:58:42.160 successor ideologists took control of the educational system because that was the moment when New York

01:58:48.800 City started with this, uh, uh, culturally sustaining education, you know, one of the

01:58:54.960 many sort of new terms that we use to describe critical race theory derivatives, you know, basically

01:59:01.680 like race obsessed, focused education. Um, and, you know, in, you know, Seattle at that time

01:59:09.180 started introducing ethno mathematics, right? So sort of saying, like, we're going to move beyond

01:59:15.200 kind of traditional Western approaches to mathematics and we're going to focus on the self-esteem of

01:59:21.680 various learners. So like all of this stuff happened at the same moment, just like whiteness became the

01:59:27.780 focus at the same moment when like the, the kind of ethnic success of this country is such that like

01:59:34.060 eight of the nine highest earning income groups were non-white, right? Like ethnic groups in America

01:59:41.100 were non-white. So like, and, and, and, and the sort of the willingness to go beyond to drastically

01:59:47.400 increase the scope of affirmative action, even beyond what the courts had allowed, you know,

01:59:52.160 through various decisions over the decades that happened at the same moment where like the Harvard

01:59:57.120 Asian American lawsuit is arriving at a six three court. So, you know, we have different entities that

02:00:04.640 have different amounts of power over different institutions and we're going to test the, the

02:00:12.120 relative power of those entities as they come into confrontation with it, because if the

02:00:18.420 unrepresented, because we already have talk right about packing the court and so on for, you know,

02:00:23.660 for other reasons, if this court, right, like outlaws affirmative action, um, you know, God knows what

02:00:31.820 happens next. So there's not going to be packing the court. There's just no way that that's, there

02:00:35.660 is, I, I predict zero chance they pack the court. The more reasonable people in the Senate, I just

02:00:41.960 don't see Joe Manchin ever doing that. But the threat of that, because they didn't pack the court

02:00:46.580 under FDR, but the threat of it, you know, it's like resulted in this, this switch in time, right?

02:00:51.320 So I don't, I just don't see it. There's, there's less support now for that than there was back then.

02:00:55.620 And that was after, you know, FDR was beloved and had way more, way larger majorities of the

02:01:00.340 house and the Senate than he has now, than Biden has now. So anyway, that, that's a big moment also.

02:01:07.920 So, but it's like, Oh, you have to go to the basis. Yeah. Here's how I see it. Okay. So you're,

02:01:13.140 you say you're not an activist. I, I see that. Um, you're a diagnostician. You're like Dr. House

02:01:19.180 and you can see the patient that's very complex and that everybody else can identify like, well,

02:01:24.700 they've got, you know, pancreatitis and, you know, they've got a lung infection and they seem to have

02:01:28.600 this compromised immune system. And you're the guy who can see all of it together and say,

02:01:34.140 here's what's happening with this patient. And then you've got Chris Rufo, who's working on a

02:01:39.240 new form of chemotherapy and other people who are coming up with new treatments that will cure this

02:01:44.980 patient. And that's people, you can't come, you can't be a Chris Rufo without a Wesley Yang. You

02:01:51.220 can't, you need the Wesley Yangs of the world to tell us what is wrong. And here's how you frame

02:01:56.140 what's happening. And that's your gift. That's, that is why people do need to follow you on

02:02:00.540 Substack. And let me just give you the chance to say it again so that they actually understand

02:02:03.800 how to support you and how to keep up to date on this information. Cause I love how you're calling

02:02:10.240 it year zero of the successor ideology. It's sort of creepy and otherworldly and that's how this feels,

02:02:16.260 but how do they find you? Well, so I have a subset called Wesley Yang.substack.com. The title of it is

02:02:23.500 Year Zero. It's actually a reference to the Khmer Rouge when they came to power, they declared a

02:02:28.700 year zero and said that, you know, uh, all of the, you know, all of the, all of the, all of our

02:02:36.000 institutions in our society are corrupted by, by, by, by oppression and we're going to have a fresh

02:02:41.900 start. And, and so that's actually the premise, right. Of the successor ideology. It exists obviously

02:02:48.240 in a real world, in a real world that is, you know, has, has made Kendi a millionaire many times

02:02:54.100 over. And so, and, and, and where they obviously depend upon, uh, you know, uh, existing institutions,

02:03:02.200 you know, you know, including, you know, the great fortunes, you know, like Twitter gave him $10

02:03:06.440 million. Uh, so year zero is a kind of cultural formation and aspiration. Uh, you know, uh, it,

02:03:17.100 it, it isn't really, you know, the totalitarian nightmare that we're seeing, but it is a kind

02:03:22.120 of bloodless inner civilization where we have these, we have these new ideological commissars. And,

02:03:28.460 and it's a, to me, it's a fascinating subject. And, and in addition to people who are kind of

02:03:35.380 fighting it, you know, um, I'm treating it as a real sort of intellectual and, uh, sociological

02:03:43.320 entity. And, uh, it, it's aimed at those who, who, who want to see this thing, um, you know,

02:03:51.560 get to the root of it intellectually, uh, diagnose it, uh, think about it, but also tell the stories

02:03:57.500 behind it because every one of these stories and all of its details is fascinating, right? Because

02:04:03.000 as you know, Megan, you can be fired for saying something that is true. And when you are in a

02:04:09.300 situation like that, there's so many underlying, there's such, there's, there's, there's, there's,

02:04:16.040 there's such a series of phantasms, right? That has, that, that have, that have possessed various

02:04:23.000 people in positions of authority to make that possible. And, and, and, uh, and, and those,

02:04:28.700 you know, eventually, you know, I'm going to put it in a book form, but, but, but now, you know,

02:04:32.300 I'm, I'm doing reporting on it. At first, I'm kind of laying some theoretical groundwork to it. And,

02:04:37.780 uh, and, you know, Substack allows people to subscribe to individual writers and, uh, allows

02:04:45.600 people to be, you know, sort of micro patrons, right? In the way that kind of like, you know,

02:04:50.320 great monarchs of, uh, 17th century Europe, uh, you know, everybody can have their share in,

02:04:57.820 uh, this is what the internet, this infrastructure allows everybody to have their share in keeping

02:05:01.920 ideas and, uh, you know, space for someone at very minimum, just to say, you know, it's the other

02:05:09.360 people that are crazy. It's not you that are crazy. And there's actually like monetary, there's

02:05:13.300 monetary value in that. And there's a need for like, for there to be credible voices, uh, you know,

02:05:19.720 to, to fill that role. And that's the role that, you know, I seek to fulfill.

02:05:24.920 Very, very grateful. You've decided to do it. Wesley Yang, what a pleasure. Absolute pleasure.

02:05:31.340 Thanks so much.

02:05:36.140 Do not miss Thursday's show. The next time we're posting is on Thursday this week,

02:05:40.840 because we're going to take on artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence, and

02:05:46.520 whether the bots are going to be taken over the world soon. This is a disturbing, but must listen

02:05:52.780 episode. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:06:03.620 The Megan Kelly show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

02:06:10.840 Bye.

02:06:34.620 Bye.

02:06:35.460 Bye.

02:06:38.720 Bye.

02:06:38.940 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 23, 2021

Wesley Yang on Weaponized Fragility, Policing Debate Out of Existence, and The Successor Ideology ｜ Ep. 150

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