The Megyn Kelly Show - What's Behind Massie's Big Loss, and Trump's Paxton Pick, with RCP, and Patrick McEnroe on International Players Invading College Tennis ｜ Ep. 1321

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00:01:00.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.260 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I've been chit-chatting with

00:01:16.180 some people here in the Red Studio and I'm putting my earrings on right now and I just

00:01:20.440 took my hair out of curlers like two seconds ago. It's been that kind of morning and I'm

00:01:23.800 thrilled to be with all of you. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Patrick McEnroe will be here later

00:01:29.380 in the show. He was here in the Red Studio, is here in the Red Studio, and is going to be coming

00:01:33.600 down momentarily. And there was another guy visiting whose identity shall remain nameless

00:01:38.100 until we actually unveil him on the show at a later date. But there's a lot going on,

00:01:42.700 and we're thinking of all of you. Patrick's actually going to be here to explain

00:01:46.200 why we may need to bring the America First movement to college tennis.

00:01:51.260 There's some weird shit happening at the college sports level that not many people are talking 0.67

00:01:56.520 about, but he's one of them. So we'll get to that. First, though, major developments in the 0.95

00:02:00.960 political world today. Seven term Republican Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massey has lost.

00:02:08.000 It happened. He went down. He was defeated in the Republican primary by his Trump backed

00:02:12.860 challenger, Ed Galrine, a 68 year old dairy farmer and retired Navy SEAL. Now, anyone who is even a

00:02:20.660 casual observer of politics knows that Massey has been a thorn in Trump's side throughout his second

00:02:25.140 term. He co-sponsored the Epstein Files Transparency Act. He voted against the one

00:02:30.040 big, beautiful bill. That was Trump's signature legislation to fund his entire agenda.

00:02:34.460 He's been very critical of the Iran war and the Trump administration's close ties with Israel.

00:02:40.120 All these things, you know, standalone could have had Trump turn on him. But,

00:02:45.560 you know, together, it was kind of no mystery why Trump was not his fan and found an opponent

00:02:51.740 to run against him. Trump and his political allies, as well as pro-Israel groups, made

00:02:56.460 ousting Massey a major priority, with over $32 million spent. So obscene. It's so obscene,

00:03:04.680 the numbers we're spending on these races. For Kentucky House District, number four to be exact,

00:03:10.680 Kentucky House District four, it now holds the record for the most expensive primary in U.S.

00:03:14.640 history. In U.S. history. With pro-Israel groups spending, well, at least $9 million alone against

00:03:21.700 Massey and a super PAC funded by pro-Israel billionaires like Paul Singer and Miriam Adelson

00:03:26.920 shelling out another nearly $7 million. So it's almost $20 million of the $31 million

00:03:35.540 spent on behalf of Israel. I mean, this is crazy. What are we doing? What, like, what are we doing?

00:03:43.240 Why are we allowing that? Even if you're pro-Israel, I mean, like, and of course I've 0.99

00:03:48.820 been pro-israel virtually my entire adult life i i don't want that determining american elections

00:03:54.920 why is that determining american we got we got our we got problems here we got bridges falling

00:03:59.200 down we've got roads that we can't drive on we got kids who can't get into college or buy homes

00:04:03.800 or get jobs when they get out of college we got grown adults who work very hard two jobs double

00:04:09.440 shifts can't take a vacation like can we not worry about israel in the election of our congressman

00:04:15.020 I'm like, maybe we worry about it, but it's like, you know, number seven on the list,

00:04:20.100 as opposed to number one, the thing that dominated the vast majority of the spending.

00:04:24.380 It's crazy talk that that spending, I mean, truly seems to have paid off because Galrain

00:04:30.600 not only beat Massey, who has won seven terms out there and like by a lot, but he beat him

00:04:37.560 by nearly 10 points.

00:04:38.620 So it wasn't particularly competitive.

00:04:40.780 Congressman Massey making a reference to this issue in his concession speech.

00:04:48.400 Watch.

00:04:49.200 I would I would have come out sooner, but I had to call my opponent and concede.

00:04:54.640 And it took a while to find Ed Galrine in Tel Aviv.

00:04:58.380 I did get the call through, though. 0.99

00:05:00.180 I have I have called and conceded the race. 1.00

00:05:02.940 We've been honorable the whole time and we're going to stay that way.

00:05:07.060 You know, welcome to the most expensive congressional primary ever in the 250 year history of this

00:05:15.200 country. It's not just the most expensive. This thing went on longer than Vietnam.

00:05:21.300 It started nine months ago and they didn't even have a candidate and they decided they

00:05:26.100 want to take me out. He's not wrong. That's true. Massey's defeat is another victory for

00:05:31.640 President Trump, who, despite his declining national favorability rating, has only strengthened

00:05:36.880 his grip on the Republican Party. I mean, it's actually a very interesting case study because

00:05:41.660 the president's poll numbers are way down. But when it comes to electing lawmakers, Republican

00:05:49.040 lawmakers, the Republican electorate is very clearly saying we want people who will support

00:05:55.920 his agenda. So they may not be thrilled with how he's doing on certain line items in the agenda,

00:06:02.700 But they still back the president. And that that also is shown in sort of the overall number of Republicans who are still behind President Trump, which remains, you know, 85, 82 percent of the party.

00:06:17.680 So you're seeing that there there was a very interesting exchange with Thomas Massey at one of his late rallies.

00:06:24.860 I think it might have been the day before the vote, where one of the gentlemen who attended

00:06:28.800 stood up and really gave him a hard time about the fact that he's not backing the president,

00:06:33.260 and he wants somebody who's going to back the president's agenda. And I think Massey was kind

00:06:37.640 of like, what if the agenda isn't even what President Trump promised, right? Like on Iran,

00:06:43.660 or arguably Epstein. And this gentleman seemed to want deference to the president,

00:06:49.600 And, you know, even if it didn't, like, he was basically trying to convince Massey that the president knows more than Massey knows. And that literally is true when it comes to something like Iran, given his position as the commander in chief and the classified briefings he gets, though it doesn't mean you can't oppose the Iran war just because you don't have all the same info.

00:07:06.880 So, um, but I do think that's, that was the frustration because as I mentioned, it was

00:07:12.240 thing after thing after thing.

00:07:14.460 So it was like, I think Kentucky voters may have given Massey a pass on one thing or two

00:07:20.400 things.

00:07:20.720 Cause he, all along he's been not big on spending us into debt.

00:07:24.960 Um, and he's had like a couple of core issues and he's been reelected so many times.

00:07:28.980 I think it was when he, he just continuously started challenging the president and started

00:07:33.380 to look more like part of the opposition that Kentucky voters said no. And then you can't

00:07:40.540 dismiss some 20 million of the 31 million spent coming from Israel and pressuring people

00:07:46.220 with these ads, manipulating people with, you know, bought and paid for ads by Israel proponents.

00:07:52.820 That there's no question that played a role. Absolutely no question. Once again, Miriam

00:07:57.360 Maddelson got her way. The president's preferred candidates also won in Indiana in some state

00:08:04.720 Senate primary races and in the Louisiana GOP Senate primary. And legislators in the Hoosier

00:08:12.440 state opposed his redistricting plan that favors Republicans. Also, Senator Bill Cassidy voted to

00:08:20.180 impeach Trump back in 2021. And the president yesterday endorsed a big candidate in Texas.

00:08:26.460 This is a big deal. So we've been watching this Texas Senate race and John Cornyn is up for reelection and he's sort of a more traditional Republican, right?

00:08:38.700 I mean, you could argue milquetoast is another word with all due respect to the senator.

00:08:42.200 He's a very nice man. But, you know, like our pal Jesse Kelly was getting progressively angry about this one because he does not want Cornyn.

00:08:50.660 And he's seen as a swamp creature by a lot of people on the right.

00:08:53.660 Whereas Ken Paxton, while he's got some, he's been in some, you know, weird ethical, legal

00:09:00.040 troubles, which he's resolved most of, he seems more like a product of the base.

00:09:09.120 And, you know, Jesse and many other like real red meat Republicans want Ken Paxton.

00:09:15.980 And they're mad at Senator Cornyn because he would not support the SAVE Act.

00:09:19.700 Well, he'd support the SAVE Act, but he wasn't saying, let's get rid of the filibuster so we can make sure we pass it, which requires voter ID.

00:09:27.420 And I do believe that's probably one of the reasons why Trump just swooped in and endorsed Ken Paxton.

00:09:33.020 Trump signaled that he did it because he thought that Paxton was more loyal to him than Senator Cornyn has been.

00:09:39.560 Cornyn pointed out he's voted with the president 99% of the time.

00:09:42.140 But Trump pointing out that he felt Cornyn was a little slow to endorse him in the 2024 primaries.

00:09:52.620 You remember he was primate and Trump was facing, you know, DeSantis and Nikki Haley and others.

00:09:58.460 And he didn't think Cornyn got on his team early enough.

00:10:00.900 And he also thought maybe he didn't say enough or do enough in the actual presidential contest once he became the nominee.

00:10:07.760 Trump this morning, President Trump also showing no signs of retreating from his pro-Israel

00:10:14.140 policies.

00:10:15.120 Watch this.

00:10:16.100 If you said to Prime Minister Netanyahu about Iran and how long to hold off on strike. 0.96

00:10:20.820 He's fine. 0.64

00:10:21.200 He'll do whatever I want him to do.

00:10:23.080 Don't forget, he was a wartime prime minister.

00:10:25.960 And he's not treated right in Israel, in my opinion.

00:10:29.520 I'm right now at 99% in Israel.

00:10:32.440 I could run for prime ministers.

00:10:33.640 So maybe after I do this, I'll go to Israel, run for prime minister.

00:10:38.520 I had a poll this morning.

00:10:39.660 I'm 99 percent.

00:10:41.540 So that's good.

00:10:42.780 I mean, that's wonderful.

00:10:43.940 But he's at 38 percent in America, which is his country.

00:10:47.460 So that's something we need to fix.

00:10:50.820 I'm so thrilled that the Israelis are super happy.

00:10:54.300 There was another trend that caught our eye last night.

00:10:57.020 Young voters all flock to Republican Thomas Massey.

00:11:01.100 I mean, all of them.

00:11:02.300 If you were under the age, if you were 55 or under, you voted for Thomas Massey.

00:11:07.920 And Gal Reign's support was from individuals eligible for Social Security.

00:11:13.840 It was the 65 and up crowd, which is very interesting.

00:11:17.080 Nothing against the 65 and uppers.

00:11:18.880 It's just there's clearly a divide within the Republican Party from the older and the younger.

00:11:25.680 And unfortunately for Thomas Massey, the older vote.

00:11:28.900 I mean, as we all know, the seniors, they vote. 0.97

00:11:31.880 That's why you're never allowed to touch Medicare.

00:11:33.660 You can never say you're touching Medicare because seniors vote way more than the young people.

00:11:38.620 So, look, I mean, this is the big data poll from Friday.

00:11:42.060 It essentially showed a tied race.

00:11:44.340 But Massey was up 81.5 to 18.5 among voters 18 to 29 years old, meaning 81 percent of them were voting Massey.

00:11:54.240 Less than 20 percent wanted Galrain.

00:11:55.900 These are Republicans with the 18 to 29 year old crowd.

00:11:59.760 While Gal Reign led 61% to Massey's 39% for voters 65 and older.

00:12:08.520 This is within the Republican Party.

00:12:10.320 So the older Republicans are extremely pro-Trump and remain pro-Israel.

00:12:16.660 Like those same divides covered the Republican Party on the issue of Israel as well.

00:12:21.720 And the Iran war, for that matter.

00:12:23.140 It's very interesting how it's breaking out.

00:12:24.960 Now, that data also tracks with what we saw from the crowds for each candidate last night.

00:12:30.960 Here's Massey's. Watch.

00:12:32.700 Massey! Massey! Massey! Massey! Massey! Massey! Massey! Massey! Massey!

00:12:38.860 It's a packed room. Massey! Massey! Massey! 0.99

00:12:43.760 And a lot of enthusiasm for a congressman who they know well.

00:12:48.180 Obviously, not everybody in that crowd was young, but a healthy portion of them were.

00:12:52.240 Now we're going to check in here with Galrine. Let's watch.

00:12:55.920 All right.

00:12:56.940 He's like mingling.

00:12:59.180 Kind of looks like the church bazaar.

00:13:03.220 You know, like fair amount.

00:13:06.480 I'd say like dozens showed up.

00:13:10.320 Yeah, I don't know.

00:13:11.080 Most of them do appear older.

00:13:12.760 And during his speech, there was an effort to get a USA chant going.

00:13:16.160 At the end, it didn't go so well.

00:13:18.560 Thank y'all for coming tonight.

00:13:19.800 Thank y'all.

00:13:22.600 USA.

00:13:23.720 USA.

00:13:24.960 USA USA USA thank y'all I know he seems kind of sweet he's like a farmer a former Navy SEAL I'm

00:13:33.100 sure he's a good man there's been a lot of speculation about whether that's true and what

00:13:36.520 his real background is because he had I think eight possibilities to debate and wouldn't we

00:13:41.560 know very little about him um so some people are speculating like he was handpicked by the

00:13:46.940 president he was plopped in there president Trump had said just give me a warm body he hates Massey

00:13:51.940 Give me a warm body.

00:13:53.160 He got a warm body.

00:13:54.680 And, you know, in Kentucky, Donald Trump had no problem getting that warm body elected.

00:13:59.900 So we don't know that much about Gal Reign.

00:14:03.020 We do know he's going to vote with the president in lockstep.

00:14:05.800 I mean, he's pretty much said that.

00:14:07.800 And that's what Trump wanted.

00:14:08.740 And that's clearly what the voters of Kentucky wanted.

00:14:10.680 And they're entitled to it.

00:14:11.840 If that's what the majority there wanted in the Republican Party, good for you.

00:14:16.160 You do have to show up. 1.00

00:14:17.100 Good for the old people. 1.00

00:14:18.300 They showed up and they voted what they wanted. 1.00

00:14:19.840 The young people didn't. 0.52

00:14:20.520 So you get nothing. 0.57

00:14:22.020 So you get nothing.

00:14:24.360 There's also a video of one of Gal Reign's election parties.

00:14:27.880 This was taken after the election was called by the media.

00:14:31.660 I mean, it's not it's not a group of young voters.

00:14:34.160 We saw maybe one man who looked under the age of 30.

00:14:39.120 Yeah, so it's like young people, if that's what you want, you should have shown up. 0.98

00:14:42.520 Like, who's got time for your complaints if you didn't show up?

00:14:45.720 Joining me now to break it all down, what it means for today and for the midterms,

00:14:49.860 are pals from RealClearPolitics. Tom Bevin is the co-founder and president of RCP. Carl Cannon

00:14:56.360 is the Washington bureau chief at RealClear. And Andrew Walworth is RealClear's chief content

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00:16:03.120 Megan, M-E-G-Y-N to get 30% off your first subscription order. You do that when you're

00:16:08.940 checking out. That's A-R-M-R-A dot com slash M-E-G-Y-N or just enter that code Megan when

00:16:17.200 you're checking out. So guys, it is a very big deal that Massey lost and it does say a lot about

00:16:26.280 our politics. I kind of gave the back of the envelope on my take. Carl, I'll start with you

00:16:30.840 on this. What's your take on what it means? Well, you got it right about Kentucky Republicans want

00:16:36.940 someone who will follow, do what the president says. He's the head of the Republican Party. He's

00:16:42.480 the head of the RNC. We have that phrase in journalism, titular head of the Republican

00:16:46.560 Party. That's not enough for Trump. He's the boss. And Massey bucked him on everything that

00:16:51.420 was important to him. In terms of Israel, Megan, it's important to remember not one nickel of that

00:16:57.140 money came from Israel. It came from Americans, many of them were Jewish, AIPAC, who support

00:17:04.140 Israel, but this wasn't just about this war. Those donations were largely about Israel.

00:17:14.900 Thomas Massey was the only vote, 420 to 1, on a non-binding resolution condemning attacks,

00:17:23.120 anti-Semitic attacks on people when two people, a beautiful young couple, was killed in Washington,

00:17:28.200 D.C. There were other attacks around the country on on Jews, not Israelis, American Jews. And

00:17:36.140 Massey wouldn't. He's the only one. Ilya Omar voted. I mean, didn't vote with Tom Massey. AOC

00:17:42.620 didn't vote with Tom Massey. None of the other libertarians voted. He this thing where he's this

00:17:47.480 and this Tel Aviv crack. What does AIPAC stand for again, Carl? Well, I'm talking about

00:17:52.220 anti-semitism and i have to tell you you you think i get it but you think to pretend this is all

00:17:57.500 about that vote and i condemned that shooting it was horrific and i condemn all anti-semitism

00:18:01.400 what i'm saying is that this guy is very openly on this show for years but what does a pack stand

00:18:06.140 for um american israeli something committee action committee yeah political action yeah

00:18:14.100 yeah well it's not american interest it's not american jewish people it's about america and

00:18:20.420 Israel. That's what they're pushing for. You don't have to take my words for it. What are you saying 0.55

00:18:28.160 here? No, of course, I support American Jews and I've defended American Jews and I put my record

00:18:32.540 of defending American Jews up against yours any day, Carl, any day of the week. I will always

00:18:37.460 protect American Jews. However, AIPAC has admitted it. Here is their tweet. Ed Galrain's victory in

00:18:44.340 Kentucky and Clay Fuller's win in Georgia ensures two outspoken pro-Israel voices are positioned to

00:18:51.240 fill seats previously held by outspoken detractors Thomas Massey and MTG. Our community was proud to

00:18:58.220 help pro-Israel candidates win these races. That's from APACT. I rest my case.

00:19:04.140 Fine. But what I'm saying is that Massey was different than all these other people

00:19:08.400 uh who questioned the war he this guy wouldn't i said on our show he wouldn't even vote for a

00:19:14.260 a resolution you know congressional medal for jack nicholas he's just a very contrary person

00:19:19.780 who i thought until recently was a principal person but this this that that crack in tel

00:19:25.800 aviv to me that's anti-semitism voting against an anti voting against a resolution that every

00:19:31.520 how is that anti-semitism every other person on him being obsessed with israel which i mean you

00:19:37.500 make the case that gall reigns not but that's what the knock is about but i'm not talking about

00:19:41.720 israel right now i'm talking about an anti-semitic resolution he's the only person in the house who

00:19:48.500 you're flip-flopping now let's go back to his you saying the knock the comment about tel aviv is

00:19:53.860 anti-semitism how oh he's just he's you know that's what that's what he's saying this guy's

00:19:58.940 a tool of israel he's not you know he's a navy seal by the way oh and megan on our show your

00:20:04.080 arguments falling apart i'm bringing somebody else in i said i'll say it again when i saw

00:20:09.160 massey say that it made me long for the days when we had duels in this country 200 years ago we had

00:20:14.480 duels i would like to see a duel between a navy seal and this guy uh who never you know who likes

00:20:21.560 to talk crap about people but never even played sports let alone fought i think you and i are 0.95

00:20:26.840 going to a duel today tom and andrew are going to be our second pistols or knives 0.98

00:20:32.800 remember that and butch gassinson that's he neither well let's get the rules straight 0.53

00:20:38.960 newles and rules in a knife fight and he kicks him in the nuts so i'm gonna stand down now megan

00:20:44.260 okay no i like it it's fine we kicked it off with some spice tom i'll get your thoughts on it

00:20:49.660 uh well listen after that I don't know um so much to choose from look I think uh

00:20:58.080 obviously this was a fraught race for Thomas Massey and and you know JD Vance explained it

00:21:03.700 well the other day about how you know and he was friends with Massey and worked with Massey on some

00:21:08.140 stuff and and Massey went from being sort of and and you pointed this out in your intro Megan that

00:21:12.740 he went from sort of being this iconoclastic guy to being sort of almost with the opposition and

00:21:18.300 he made a lot of enemies, including the president of the United States. And when you do that,

00:21:22.720 you can expect that the party's not going to be there for you and that the party will challenge

00:21:27.540 you. Yes, there was a lot of money spent in this race. And I think it is important to point out,

00:21:34.500 there is a schism within the Republican Party. There's no question about it.

00:21:37.680 And the age difference of the voters is something that I think Republicans need to

00:21:44.440 pay attention to and not just ignore. However, I would also say money's important to a certain

00:21:52.400 degree, but especially in a smaller race, when you get beyond a certain amount, there's

00:21:58.040 diminishing returns, right? If you spend 5 million, okay, that helps you get volunteers

00:22:02.940 and get on air and all that stuff. But the difference between 5 million and 20 million

00:22:07.860 or 20 million and 25 million, you're not getting a lot more out of that, right? Obviously,

00:22:13.880 the airwaves were blanketed with ads. Everybody knew it. An extra couple million in ads is not

00:22:19.480 going to put you over the top necessarily. And he won this race pretty handily. So as you mentioned,

00:22:24.820 it's pretty clear the voters in Kentucky wanted someone who was going to be with the president

00:22:30.420 and with the president's agenda on a whole host of issues, including, it seems, the war in Iran,

00:22:36.320 even though he is, as you point out, that's not necessarily a popular position writ large among

00:22:45.120 the public. And you look at our RealClearPolitics job approval rating, he's under 40% for the first

00:22:49.720 time in his second term. He's approaching his all-time low. And his disapproval rating is at

00:22:54.880 an all-time high in his second term. So again, I don't know. I did think, by the way, I'll just

00:23:02.340 be on the record here, Megan, I did think the Tel Aviv thing was like a low blow. I mean,

00:23:06.620 he didn't need to do that. He could have been a classy guy and he could have conceded graciously.

00:23:11.060 And I thought that was kind of bullshit on his part. I don't dispute low blow. 0.99

00:23:16.900 Okay. Yeah. I don't think, like that's, yeah, it wasn't like a classy thing to do.

00:23:22.500 I mean, this is not BLM 2020. We're not doing that here.

00:23:27.240 Well, I'm just saying like, let's keep going. And look, it tells you a lot about a person,

00:23:31.120 and how they handle moments of defeat and crisis and adversity, right?

00:23:35.880 And to me, that was him kind of showing that, you know.

00:23:39.860 I mean, we're talking, like, Donald Trump is the person on the other side of this fight, really.

00:23:48.020 And he didn't handle his loss particularly well back in 2012.

00:23:53.380 He staged one lousy riot at the Capitol.

00:23:56.340 Well, he also didn't lose by 10 points, Megan. 1.00

00:23:58.640 I mean, Massey got his ass kicked. 1.00

00:24:00.340 I mean, really. 1.00

00:24:01.120 And he did. He got his ass kicked. No question. I mean, it wasn't close. There was a huge surge in turnout, by the way, if what I'm seeing online is true. They had some 20,000 more voters, Andrew, I think, than they had the last time around. 1.00

00:24:16.600 some people you know it being the republican party are crying foul about that right like that those

00:24:22.920 numbers don't add up that's too suspicious why are those numbers so off in 2020 they had 84 000 votes

00:24:29.180 come out for the race between massey and his challenger then massey crushed it there 68 000

00:24:33.960 to 16 in 2020 they had 66 000 votes 2024 52 000 votes and yesterday they had 104 000 votes

00:24:45.600 Galrein winning by 57,000 in the last count and Massey 47,000.

00:24:49.860 So I, you know, I'm not sure why we had so many more votes here in a non-presidential

00:24:55.160 election year, but this race had $32 million spent on it.

00:24:58.340 So I'm going to put my money on that.

00:24:59.740 That would be my, that's the Occam's razor, right?

00:25:02.180 I mean, that's, you spend that kind of money and you make it this important.

00:25:05.400 You have the president out there talking about it and that drives people to the polls.

00:25:09.400 I mean, it wasn't close.

00:25:10.320 It was 54 to 45%.

00:25:12.260 So if it had been right on the edge or something, you might say that the money made a difference or something.

00:25:19.860 But I think that occasionally the voters speak, and I think they spoke loudly in this case.

00:25:25.260 The other thing about it is that why Trump cared so much about this race, it wasn't just Israel.

00:25:31.800 I mean, this guy voted against the big, beautiful bill.

00:25:36.200 And Trump is looking at, if you want to give him some credit for foresight.

00:25:41.240 And Epstein.

00:25:41.340 And Epstein, thank you. But he's looking at what's going to happen this fall. And they may

00:25:46.580 be in the minority, or they may have this tiny, even a smaller majority. And he's seen how hard

00:25:51.720 it is to get anything done on the Hill with the minority they have there now. So every vote's 0.99

00:25:57.840 going to count. So to me, this isn't just about revenge. A lot of the press are calling it part

00:26:02.600 of the revenge tour. This was really trying to secure a vote that he can count on in the fall.

00:26:08.820 And if you look at it that way, you know, spending 20, 30 million dollars, whatever the final number was on the Republican side, might have been a good investment.

00:26:19.460 I don't know.

00:26:21.480 Well, I think it also has another benefit to Trump, which is, you know, I don't have to hurt everyone.

00:26:29.140 I just have to hurt a couple of very prominent examples and then the rest will fall in line.

00:26:34.180 You know, he wants the rest of the Republican Party to fall in line.

00:26:38.260 And if he can make an example out of Thomas Massey or even John Cornyn, I'm not sure it's not it's not the same situation, but he has said Cornyn is not getting my endorsement and Ken Paxton is because I didn't think Cornyn was sufficiently pro-Trump in the 2024 election cycle.

00:26:54.880 So if he can just sort of say to people, you know what, I do have a long memory and I do keep track. And if you if you buck me on the big, beautiful bill, you rub my face in Epstein, which I clearly made clear I wanted to go away and you you made it into a thing where I then had to kind of sign this law to make it look like I also wanted transparency.

00:27:17.620 but I'd made clear prior to that I didn't. I'm going to hurt you. Like I have every right to

00:27:22.040 swoop into your primary as the biggest person in Republican politics and hurt you. And Massey

00:27:27.720 knew that Trump could do that. He assumed the risk for sure that Trump would do that.

00:27:34.260 And the only real question I have is, would Massey have gone down if it had just been that alone and

00:27:40.720 not all this pro-Israel money? And I wish we could know that. I really do. I wish we could know that,

00:27:46.500 you know did did trump have the juice and the power to make him lose just because he did get

00:27:52.260 so much more active about trying to bring him down this time because he's done it we talked

00:27:55.960 about indiana but i think a nine point spread is part of the answer to your question megan i think

00:28:01.900 i don't he could have done it on his own i think i think it would have happened either way yeah we

00:28:06.220 could ask senator cassidy that's unfortunate for israel that they spent all that money

00:28:10.040 Well, Cassidy, Cassidy was annoying. I'm glad Cassidy's gone. Honestly, like he was so annoying. I sat in that RFKJ confirmation hearing and he thought he was already HHS secretary. What Cassidy did, like he was so disrespectful and he was like, he is not Maha at all.

00:28:32.480 Our viewers called his office and said, you better vote for him.

00:28:35.500 And it got so bad that they disconnected the phone lines and called us and begged us to stop having our audience call. 0.88

00:28:42.020 But like we have a lot of Maha moms and dads watching this program who are much more on Team Kennedy than they are on Team Cassidy. 0.96

00:28:50.220 So farewell. 0.99

00:28:51.500 I'm not going to miss him.

00:28:53.080 Now, what about Cornyn Paxton?

00:28:55.320 That's interesting.

00:28:56.080 That's also really interesting, right?

00:28:57.980 Like who wants to take the first crack at that?

00:29:00.400 Tom has an interesting take on that.

00:29:03.780 Well, we talked about it on our show.

00:29:06.160 And look, the polls show that Paxton was leading, you know, and I think the writing was on the wall that Paxton was going to win this regardless.

00:29:13.760 Just for the audience there, they had a vote and neither one got a majority.

00:29:18.560 So they were going to go to a runoff in like a couple of weeks, Paxton versus Cornyn.

00:29:23.040 And that's what Tom said. He thought Paxton was going to win.

00:29:25.140 Oh, it's on Tuesday.

00:29:25.600 If you remember, right when they went to the runoff, Trump basically said, kind of said, offered this deal to Cornyn that if you push the SAVE Act and vote for the SAVE Act, Save America Act, that I will turn around and endorse you if you bring that to the floor and get that, you know, push that over the finish line.

00:29:41.520 And that didn't really happen, but, you know, and Trump sort of held off.

00:29:45.780 And then now here he is with just a couple weeks left.

00:29:50.160 And you look at the polls.

00:29:51.060 I mean, a couple of them have it tight, but a couple of them, I mean, the majority have Paxson ahead.

00:29:55.360 And so I think Trump was, you know, hopping on a bandwagon a little bit. He hates to be involved in losers, right? And the MAGA base clearly is behind Paxton. And so I don't even know if he had endorsed Cornyn, whether that would have moved the needle for him enough to, you know, get him over the finish line.

00:30:13.540 So I think Trump decided that he was just going to go with the guy's going to be a winner.

00:30:17.520 And by the way, if you look at the general election, I know people say, and Carl said

00:30:20.380 this and thinks this, which is perfectly fine, that John Cornyn would be a better general

00:30:25.420 election candidate.

00:30:26.400 The polling that we have thus far shows that basically Paxton and Cornyn run essentially

00:30:33.400 the same against Tallarico.

00:30:34.960 I mean, they're within like a point of each other.

00:30:36.480 They're both at 44, 45.

00:30:38.620 Tallarico is at 44, 45.

00:30:40.600 He's obviously got a whole host of issues, James Tallarico does, to be – Trump just said the other day, like, he's a vegan.

00:30:49.060 He can't win.

00:30:49.460 Vegans can't win in Texas, which is probably true, actually.

00:30:52.720 I believe he said vegan.

00:30:54.940 Trump is so unfamiliar with, like, veganism.

00:30:57.700 He's such a red meat American guy.

00:30:59.140 He was like, he's a vegan.

00:31:00.180 He's a vegan.

00:31:00.840 That's not even a thing.

00:31:03.560 But I think he is right about that.

00:31:04.920 And so, you know, Paxson obviously has some baggage as well, and that'll get aired during

00:31:09.140 a general election campaign, but he's not that much worse.

00:31:12.480 Texans aren't going to get out.

00:31:13.600 Yeah, exactly.

00:31:14.020 I mean, if you're looking at independents, like, okay, I got Ken Paxson, and then I got,

00:31:17.440 you know, I got James Tallarico.

00:31:18.940 That's the choice I'm facing.

00:31:20.880 Who thinks God is non-binary. 0.97

00:31:22.180 Exactly.

00:31:22.740 I think a lot of Republicans, or a lot of independents even, are going to, you know,

00:31:27.480 decide that it's going to be an uphill battle for Tallarico, I think.

00:31:31.060 Carl, here is here's Trump on Tallarico from Friday on Air Force One, South 12.

00:31:36.840 Where are you on the Texas Senate race?

00:31:39.360 Well, I'll maybe make a decision.

00:31:41.320 I know them both very well.

00:31:43.280 I like them both a lot.

00:31:45.180 And, you know, my record of endorsements is extraordinary.

00:31:49.160 I think the Democrats have a weird, a weird candidate. 1.00

00:31:54.980 Six genders. 1.00

00:31:56.840 A real hit on Jesus. 1.00

00:31:58.900 He's a vegan.

00:31:59.440 all of a sudden he's not a vegan he was a vegan home now all of a sudden he said texas doesn't

00:32:04.360 like vegans i i do believe either one of them will easily win the race you're right he said vegan

00:32:11.960 it makes it it sounds like you know it's a cross between vegan and pagan he's a vegan

00:32:18.200 it sounded even worse it's like a weird religion that doesn't eat meat

00:32:22.440 burgers so much. He's like, what even is that? Why? I don't even know what it is.

00:32:28.940 But here's the other thing. So James Tallarico went on the most annoying podcast in America.

00:32:38.340 And that's saying something. It's hosted by that weird lady who invented IT cosmetics. I'm sure 0.87

00:32:45.700 you're all familiar with it um she her name is jamie kern lima and she not for nothing but she 0.97

00:32:53.820 was a news anchor who was not happy with how her skin was looking on camera and so that was that's 0.57

00:32:58.140 what led her to create this brand of cosmetics that gave more coverage it's a huge hit she wound

00:33:02.440 up selling it for a billion dollars and now she lives out with the duchess of duplicity in montecito 0.97

00:33:07.680 and that's how people may know that she has a podcast because she conducted the most annoying 1.00

00:33:13.460 interview ever of Meghan Markle on that show. I mean, if I had known I was going to go here,

00:33:19.040 I probably would have pulled up one of those clips. Can she talk like this? It's your skin

00:33:24.020 crawls. Meghan Markle has never been so likable because she's across from this bizarre, strange 0.99

00:33:31.660 person. And now, probably not coincidentally, James Tallarico, who's also weird and unlikable,

00:33:38.680 goes across from her as well truly it's actually kind of a brilliant strategy just find the least

00:33:44.200 likable interviewer you can and launch your campaign on their show or you know do some

00:33:50.040 sort of big long sit down with them um here is that's this is i'm actually going to try to get

00:33:56.680 on michelle obama's podcast now that i think it's gonna be really good for me okay here he is on

00:34:03.260 Jamie Curran-Lima's show, this guy, Tallarico, who Paxton or Cornyn will have to take on.

00:34:07.820 The most popular question that we got asked is, are you single? Are you single? So you have a

00:34:17.120 girlfriend of many years. I do. And she is my rock. She is my best friend. I don't know if I

00:34:28.360 could have gotten through the last six months of this crazy race if she hadn't been by my side. 1.00

00:34:35.960 So yeah, thanks for asking about her as well. I mean, at the moment she's in Canada, 1.00

00:34:41.860 but she is real. She's my rock. Maybe we're in love. Maybe it actually is a rock that he just

00:34:47.980 calls his girlfriend. Megan, did you ever think you would long for Jasmine Crockett?

00:34:53.040 no exactly oh my gosh i like that guy i have news for his girlfriend girlfriend don't go through it

00:35:05.400 if you're real run it's not going to end well um i think your friend james has got something he'd

00:35:12.500 like to discuss with god like behind closed doors when nobody's looking but the question is can he

00:35:17.780 win because when we first got a look at this guy we all said there's no way this guy's winning in

00:35:22.220 in Texas. But Texas is getting more liberal, sadly, thanks to all of the, you know, new arrivals

00:35:28.280 there. And they didn't, they did elect somebody like a Jasmine Crockett. And the more moderate 0.87

00:35:36.120 wing of the Republican Party is worried now about Ken Paxton's chances. And I, I know they were

00:35:43.800 loyal to Cornyn and they like Cornyn, but I think Murkowski, Collins, Thune are genuinely concerned

00:35:51.900 that Paxton could lose.

00:35:55.040 Should they be?

00:35:56.120 I think so.

00:35:57.400 Yeah, I think they should.

00:35:59.200 I mean, I think it's a,

00:36:02.540 I think that,

00:36:03.580 I know Tom talked about the polls,

00:36:05.760 but I don't quite believe the polls.

00:36:08.100 I think that he is a worse candidate

00:36:09.600 for the state at this point.

00:36:12.860 And this fall, you know,

00:36:15.820 it's possible that Tallarica could pull it off.

00:36:19.420 I just think that it's, you know,

00:36:21.080 you can't totally dismiss that possibility the way you would have a couple years ago.

00:36:24.320 Well, anything's possible, Andy, of course.

00:36:26.300 Right, well, yeah.

00:36:26.720 Like, is it likely?

00:36:28.200 No, I would not say it's likely, but if you were sitting in the Senate,

00:36:32.420 and, I mean, the President of the United States of your party

00:36:37.260 is endorsing challengers to your fellow senators,

00:36:43.080 yeah, that's upsetting.

00:36:44.820 That's upsetting because, you know,

00:36:46.520 but for the grace of God, go I.

00:36:48.260 I mean, I think the other interesting thing about this is that,

00:36:50.900 You know, you are sort of ending up with a number of senators for the next six, seven months who are unleashed from any and probably a little pissed off, you know, to put it lightly, at the president.

00:37:04.700 That's so true.

00:37:05.580 You know, how's that going to look?

00:37:06.520 I mean, so you've got Cassidy, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, who you've mentioned.

00:37:11.520 Tom Tillis of North Carolina is already going or is, you know, is out.

00:37:16.420 Now you add Cassidy and Cornyn.

00:37:18.400 And so when you're talking about things like the ballroom or the War Powers Act, if you're the president, you're losing a lot of votes in a close Senate.

00:37:31.320 I saw Gretchen Carlson, my old colleague from Fox News, was on X today urging Massey, who's been at the center of the Epstein disclosures, insisting on the Epstein disclosures and getting a fair amount, not all, but a fair amount of them, urging him to go on the floor and just read all the names out loud.

00:37:49.080 Yeah, you know, he did say, he said, one of the things he said is, I've got seven months left.

00:37:53.300 I mean, it's not like he's gone tomorrow.

00:37:56.400 He's here for seven months.

00:37:57.520 But can I go back to James Tallarico for just one second?

00:38:01.320 I mean, he's a 45 percent. And so, yes, could he get the extra five percent? Sure. But I mean, we're talking about this. The general election has not even started yet. And when it starts, right, he's going to have to stand on stage one on one against Ken Paxson and answer Ken Paxson's questions or the questions of the moderators. There will be millions and millions of dollars spent.

00:38:23.340 He's obviously, Tallarico has shattered fundraising records. He's flushed with cash. He's going to be able to expose PACs and all of his warts. But Republicans are going to have plenty of money, too. And they're going to expose some of these positions to a broader audience that James Tallarico has on, as you said, Megan, on God, on all of these other transgender issues, on guns, on all of this stuff, immigration.

00:38:48.140 and and so once that happens i think this race is gonna is gonna take on a different flavor and

00:38:54.400 it's gonna look a little bit i still think it's an uphill battle for him uh in a state where there

00:38:58.580 are still more it has it has obviously moved to the left but still a lot more republicans than

00:39:03.760 democrats in texas and and even the some of the democrats that are in texas outside of like austin

00:39:08.200 and some of the mean they're they're not like far left democrats um unless they're living in the

00:39:14.040 cities but tom won't this largely be about turnout and the democrats what we've seen so far is they

00:39:20.980 are turning out their voters and they may turn out in texas and if you've got someone like ken

00:39:25.320 paxton uh are independents going to turn out and vote for him i mean sure he'll he'll carry the

00:39:30.400 maga base but is that going to be enough in texas this next time around i think it is i mean that's

00:39:34.920 the thing i think i think the maga folks would look can i say one thing about about ken paxton

00:39:38.520 Tom he's he's spicy he's fun to listen to like if he actually gets on a debate stage with Tallarico

00:39:46.560 we're all going to want to watch that because he's used to fighting he's started many fights he's been

00:39:52.380 the recipient of many rhetorical and litigation punches like he'll be prepared to spice things up

00:40:00.460 and keep it keep it rough he's not going to let anybody bully him whereas Cornyn you know kind

00:40:06.300 of like quiet he as i said in the beginning and i don't mean that to be mean but like a little bit

00:40:10.340 more milk toast i think you could say which is why he's got like the susan collins and murkowski's

00:40:15.060 of the world like oh no not cornyn keep going tom you can use the word gentleman instead of

00:40:19.140 milk toast megan yeah there we go i don't know i call my husband a gentleman but he's not milk

00:40:24.960 toast he's also spicy but but in a in a midterm election and you're right turnout matters and

00:40:29.880 and mega voters are going to turn out for kim paxton i i don't know that they would have turned

00:40:33.820 out for john cornyn they might have been like oh right well jesse kelly would not have exactly

00:40:38.480 so here's the other thing though tom trump is not as popular as he was in texas previously you know

00:40:43.920 eight years ago when beto o'rourke was running against ted cruz trump was uh i saw a poll this

00:40:49.740 morning on cnn he was you know plus four popularity statewide now he's you know minus three so you know

00:40:56.860 the being the mega the mega handle may not be as potent as it was in texas even in you know

00:41:04.280 relatively recent elections okay my friend has just emailed me to remind me that it's pronounced

00:41:10.900 it cosmetics not it so it's it it's it just back to jamie lee and kerna because it's that kind of 1.00

00:41:17.020 day let's just look we my crack team has found one of the clips between this late this lady and

00:41:21.840 Meghan Markle. Watch this. Just look at this. Are you in love now more than ever? More than

00:41:27.100 you've ever been? Yeah. I mean, you have to imagine at the beginning, everyone is like

00:41:32.380 butterflies. And then we immediately went into the trenches together. Yeah. Right out of the gate,

00:41:41.420 like six months into dating. So now seven years later, when you have a little bit of breathing

00:41:46.840 space you can just enjoy each other in a new way and that's why i feel like it's more of a honeymoon

00:41:52.820 period for us now yeah do you think you'll be married forever yes i have a letter he's also

00:42:02.560 a fox if you haven't noticed my husband's very very handsome but he's his heart is even more

00:42:08.220 beautiful i love that your eyes are sparkling right now oh

00:42:12.700 i threw up in my mouth megan i went to journalism school and i have to tell you those are the

00:42:20.420 questions we were taught to ask people are you gonna be married forever this is what i love

00:42:27.420 about being on megan's show though we're talking politics and then suddenly we're commenting on

00:42:31.820 like megan markle and some random podcaster that we've never heard of at least i've never heard of

00:42:36.460 It's a strategy. 0.55

00:42:37.960 Two villains, Tallarico and Meghan Markle,

00:42:41.340 choosing the least likable person they can find to interview them.

00:42:44.300 There's a reason.

00:42:45.160 And the high voice, I can't even do it.

00:42:46.800 My voice is naturally low.

00:42:48.640 My mother's is even lower.

00:42:49.860 I can't even get up to that.

00:42:51.000 We are the little actors.

00:42:52.260 Like, your eyes are sparkly.

00:42:54.040 It's so embarrassing.

00:42:55.560 That's where Tallarico went, and there is a reason for that.

00:43:00.280 I want to ask about the following.

00:43:03.500 In the news everywhere right now is this slush fund. That's what they're calling it, that Trump got with the DOJ. And I find this situation very interesting. So Trump sued the government for a man who worked in the IRS leaking Trump's tax returns, which he did.

00:43:25.700 That guy just got convicted of that and sentenced and Trump sued and it went in front of a court

00:43:33.960 who said, wait a minute, you're suing an agency that is part of the executive branch and you are

00:43:39.780 ultimately in charge of. So you're kind of suing yourself. So I'm not sure I actually can hear this

00:43:44.220 case because article three of the constitution, which empowers our federal courts, requires me

00:43:48.720 to only hear a case if there's an actual case or controversy, which requires that the parties be

00:43:53.440 adverse. I have to be adverse. How can they be adverse if they're really the same person?

00:43:57.960 It's you suing you. You're in charge of the lawsuit and of its resolution. And she said,

00:44:03.880 I'm going to issue a ruling on this in a day. Well, this is Monday. She's going to issue the

00:44:09.040 ruling on Wednesday. And on Tuesday, Todd Blanche, who is Trump's former personal attorney,

00:44:18.140 right, who's spent the past decade trying to represent Trump's personal interests,

00:44:21.600 who's now running the doj temporarily decided to settle the case with trump before the mean judge

00:44:28.520 could throw it out of court saying there's no case or controversy here and therefore i have

00:44:32.080 no jurisdiction and they settled it for a mere 1.8 billion dollars that the government is now

00:44:39.400 going to pay out technically it's a it's it's what is it 1776 is that what 1.776 yeah was

00:44:47.080 It's an homage to the founding.

00:44:52.200 So Trump says, you know, you don't have to pay me directly, although it is still a possibility that the Trumps could file for redress in this fund because they have been the victims of lawfare.

00:45:06.200 But what he said is, I want you to use the money for remuneration of people who have been the victims of lawfare.

00:45:12.960 And we're going to appoint a five-person board that Todd Blanche is going to appoint, but I get to oversee.

00:45:21.080 I, the president, can fire them if I don't like them or what they do.

00:45:25.360 And they're going to approve the disbursements.

00:45:28.700 You have to submit a claim.

00:45:30.320 You have to make your case as to why you deserve something.

00:45:32.720 I'm thinking about somebody like a Steve Bannon, you know, who was put in jail for contempt of Congress,

00:45:37.680 whereas Merrick Garland was found in contempt of Congress and didn't serve one day because he was

00:45:41.960 the AG. He decided not to prosecute himself, but he was happy to prosecute Steve Bannon. He should

00:45:45.980 file. I heard a liberal station say, is James Comey going to file? Letitia James? Could they,

00:45:51.840 you know, like they could make the case. They've been the victims of lawfare.

00:45:57.120 But now the left and some of the right are really mad that $1.8 billion of taxpayer money,

00:46:03.180 it's already a slush fund, whatever you want to call it, at the DOJ, which is meant to cover

00:46:07.160 government payouts that we actually do have to pay when the government loses in any given lawsuit.

00:46:11.960 But basically, we just agreed to give it all to this new fund under Todd Blanche, who clearly

00:46:18.200 wants to win the favor of the president because he wants to be the real attorney general, not just

00:46:22.340 acting. So there is some self-dealing going on here. But the thing that jumped out at me, guys,

00:46:26.140 is I don't like it. I'm not going to lie. I don't love it. I'd like to see individual plaintiffs who

00:46:32.040 feel they've been harmed by lawfare, and there are a lot of them, file a case and get the remuneration 0.90

00:46:36.620 They ought to, just like those losers, those losers, Lisa Page and Peter Strzok did.

00:46:41.320 They sued and got paid out of the same similar slush fund saying our private texts were released. 0.98

00:46:48.620 Nobody cried a tear in the leftist media for them.

00:46:51.200 So this is a bigger payout.

00:46:52.700 It's going to involve more people.

00:46:54.900 But this was created by Barack Obama.

00:46:58.720 Tom, Barack Obama is the one who started the practice of having his DOJ go after these big corporate interests and then extracting a settlement that they then had to pay to Barack Obama's favorite environmental group or Hispanic voter group or insert your favorite cause.

00:47:21.880 like so much of the stuff that Trump does that's controversial that we may or may not love.

00:47:26.300 It started with Barack Obama and the same media that's now ripping Trump to shreds for doing it

00:47:31.760 said nothing, nothing when Barack Obama started it and was the one to cross the norm and create

00:47:39.460 the new normal where our government officials do this to us. So I really have no tolerance

00:47:44.500 for their cries and protestations about what Trump is doing that unlike those other bullshit things 0.97

00:47:50.340 Obama did actually do have the chance of helping someone who's actually been hurt.

00:47:54.120 Your thoughts? Yeah, look, we end up this is the problem. We end up in this sort of tit for tat

00:48:01.400 cycle, right, where, you know, somebody will will do something and break some norm or set some new

00:48:08.900 precedent. And then and then the next administration will go. And look, we saw it with pardons.

00:48:15.820 wait till Trump gets the pardon

00:48:18.620 when he's leaving office

00:48:20.100 imagine who he's pardoning

00:48:21.440 and one of the components of this deal Megan 0.91

00:48:23.640 which is also outrageous

00:48:24.880 is that the IRS has agreed to never audit

00:48:28.620 any of the Trump family members

00:48:30.560 or any of their businesses ever

00:48:32.160 for all of eternity

00:48:33.580 which seems patently unconstitutional

00:48:37.580 or illegal or something

00:48:38.760 at least unethical

00:48:39.560 I'm not sure that one's going to hold up

00:48:40.300 yeah exactly

00:48:40.780 so yeah I don't like it either

00:48:44.240 um and and so you can you can hold these two thoughts in your head at the same time one

00:48:48.860 yeah it's it it seems kind of like a sketchy deal and i wish the president wouldn't do it

00:48:54.400 necessarily i agree with you i mean as far as people who have actually been harmed and had

00:48:59.260 you know had their livelihoods taken away or as businesses including real clear politics by the

00:49:05.220 way who who was actively discriminated against during covid for all this misinformation and

00:49:11.300 censorship stuff that went on um we you know would love to have a or trump himself exactly

00:49:18.320 but like bring your case and get a settlement individually through through the proper channels

00:49:22.660 and means and and a jury have a jury award you uh and recognize that you were you were harmed in

00:49:28.940 that way um but again so don't like it but at the same time to point out uh it's perfectly reasonable

00:49:35.440 to point out hey this isn't like some something new under the sun that obama started this and

00:49:39.640 you're right i mean the media it's we see this time and time and time again right trump will do

00:49:44.240 something and the media will go absolutely batshit crazy over it and they'll be like oh well

00:49:48.760 obama did this or the democrats did it and they didn't care and we're not talking like 50 years

00:49:53.580 ago we're talking like six months ago or a year ago two years ago five years ago 10 years ago

00:49:57.260 so there is this double standard that constantly plays out and it is infuriating

00:50:01.480 kim strassel had a great piece in the journal on this pointing out that for example volkswagen

00:50:07.560 was required during the Obama administration

00:50:09.820 to invest $2 billion in zero-emissions technology.

00:50:15.540 $2 billion.

00:50:16.860 The Obama administration paid $380 million

00:50:19.700 via the Agriculture Department

00:50:21.600 to settle a class action suit

00:50:23.140 brought by Native Americans. 1.00

00:50:25.160 Oh, gee.

00:50:26.220 There's a list of government-approved non-profits

00:50:29.340 that the Justice Department maintains,

00:50:32.420 and these are the beneficiaries

00:50:34.080 that are pushed by places like the Obama administration and the Biden administration.

00:50:38.880 And they're almost all liberal activist groups like the National Council of La Raza, the National Urban League.

00:50:45.220 I could keep going. All that was fine. That was all fine, Carl.

00:50:49.500 Only this gets scrutiny by the media.

00:50:51.280 I agree with every word you said, Megan. That might surprise you. Every word.

00:50:55.660 The only thing I would add, though, is that the cognitive dissonance to me isn't that the Democrats are being,

00:51:03.160 or the media is being hypocritical it's that trump himself is using lawfare to go after

00:51:08.360 james comey and other people and he's pretty open about it and if they're gonna stand on principle

00:51:13.260 and say lawfare is wrong and the american and the people were harmed by it should be recompensed by

00:51:17.480 the government then they should stop doing it now okay i'm not gonna lie i'm kind of enjoying what's

00:51:23.940 happening james comey but i take your point i take your point all right we've decided instead

00:51:29.120 Instead of a duel at dawn, we're just going to send you to Jamie Kern-Lima's show now.

00:51:33.460 You have to go over there.

00:51:35.840 You have to sit with that nutcase and then get back to us on how it goes and see if your eyes sparkle while you're there.

00:51:44.380 Guys, thank you.

00:51:46.220 Anytime, pal.

00:51:47.140 Good to be with you.

00:51:48.300 Great to see you all.

00:51:49.200 All right, coming up, a first-time guest on the show, Patrick McEnroe.

00:51:53.580 Yes, the tennis great, the face of American tennis is here.

00:51:58.260 and he's got a thing or two to say

00:51:59.700 about what we're doing to college athletes.

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00:53:29.760 All right, full-time thoughts. Craig, who stood out?

00:53:32.220 Brazil's lime cheesecake started bright, didn't let up.

00:53:34.760 Nah, for me, Italian cappuccino was the standout in the box.

00:53:37.820 But if we're talking decadent performance, that's all France.

00:53:40.660 Chocolate creme brulee had the richest finishes.

00:53:43.040 Canadian fireworks really showed up big too.

00:53:44.860 And Mexico's caramel churro ice cap gave me chills.

00:53:48.320 We are, of course, talking about Tim's taste of the globe lineup.

00:53:51.500 New globally inspired Timbits and Ice Cat flavors available at Tim Hortons for a limited time.

00:53:55.960 Pick some up today and while you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily.

00:54:03.240 Now we turn to the world of tennis and sports.

00:54:06.380 Patrick McEnroe is a former professional tennis player and current sports broadcaster.

00:54:10.940 He's really, truly one of the best known faces of U.S. tennis.

00:54:14.160 And he's here today to discuss a major issue he sees in college tennis today, and it affects more than just tennis.

00:54:20.500 More foreign players and less Americans are taking all the spots.

00:54:25.680 So what's behind this, and what are we going to do about it, if anything?

00:54:29.800 Patrick got kind of tired of just sitting around complaining about it, wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal,

00:54:34.000 and is actually pressing for real change in the college athletics level.

00:54:38.600 He's the host of Holding Court with his brother, John McEnroe,

00:54:42.480 but his show is called Holding Court with Patrick McEnroe on SiriusXM Mad Dog Sports Radio.

00:54:46.860 Patrick, welcome to the show.

00:54:47.800 Thank you.

00:54:48.140 Thank you for having me.

00:54:48.880 So the SiriusXM show, it's just you, but you hold a different one with your brother.

00:54:52.120 I'm doing a show with my brother called The Mac Zone coming up from Paris during Roland Garros, the French Open.

00:54:57.320 Okay.

00:54:57.620 So we're going to be doing that with our friends at Turner Sports.

00:55:00.580 So we're looking forward to it.

00:55:01.040 We started it last year.

00:55:02.200 It's just kind of a way to do something a little bit different in the tennis world.

00:55:05.740 Now, are you the junior brother or the senior brother?

00:55:08.660 I'm the junior.

00:55:09.360 Actually, I have two brothers.

00:55:10.420 John's the oldest.

00:55:11.180 I have another brother, Mark, in the middle.

00:55:12.760 Okay.

00:55:13.040 And then I was a young—I'm still the youngest, although I'll be 60 in a couple months.

00:55:17.260 So we grew up in Queens, and we just so happened to get lucky, Megan, that our parents moved—

00:55:24.480 you know, when my dad became a partner at his law firm when he was quite young,

00:55:28.760 they moved to sort of the nicer part of Douglasson, which is called the Douglas Manor.

00:55:32.720 and this particular area had a little tennis club called the douglasan club and john was eight and a

00:55:38.980 half at the time and it was playing all the other sports basketball soccer baseball football was

00:55:45.000 very good at all sports and he decided to try tennis because they only had tennis and swimming

00:55:50.220 in the summer so the kid the kid who was like a college kid who was running the program after

00:55:55.380 about a month in the summer he saw my parents at the club you know at the snack bar and he said

00:55:59.620 Now, you know, Mr. and Mrs. McEnroe, your son's like crazy hand-eye coordination for tennis.

00:56:04.760 And they're like, oh, great.

00:56:06.200 Because my parents had never played tennis, knew nothing about it.

00:56:08.820 And he said, no, no, you need to do something.

00:56:10.940 You need to take him somewhere because he's got incredible talent.

00:56:14.680 So they took him to a place called the Port Washington Tennis Academy,

00:56:18.020 which is now actually part of our John McEnroe Tennis Academies that we run all around New York.

00:56:22.820 And anyway, there's a great coach there named Harry Hopman,

00:56:26.340 who's a legendary coach from all the Australian greats.

00:56:29.620 And he had gotten a fight with his federation.

00:56:31.520 He came to America, ended up in Port Washington.

00:56:34.420 He sees my brother.

00:56:35.540 He goes for a tryout to get a scholarship.

00:56:38.800 He says, we'll take him.

00:56:40.060 He said, he's going to be number one in the world.

00:56:42.000 No way.

00:56:42.460 Now, apparently, Megan, he said that to all the parents of their kids. 0.98

00:56:45.660 This one time he happened to be right. 0.98

00:56:47.680 Wow.

00:56:48.120 So I just did whatever my brothers did.

00:56:49.580 I was one year old at the time.

00:56:51.620 Yes.

00:56:52.080 And I just followed whatever my two brothers did.

00:56:54.720 So we played soccer and basketball.

00:56:56.360 And at the club, they had a wall.

00:56:58.200 And I would just go down there.

00:56:59.360 Before I could even ride a bicycle, I would go down on my tricycle and I would hit against the wall for just hours and hours.

00:57:05.680 Yep.

00:57:06.040 And is that what made the difference?

00:57:07.960 That sort of?

00:57:08.840 I think it was like, you know, we obviously, I obviously started playing a lot at a young age.

00:57:14.400 So that tends to be the route that professional.

00:57:18.600 How young?

00:57:19.920 Well, usually less than five.

00:57:22.560 Really little.

00:57:23.180 And so I said, John was a freak in that he didn't start to lose eight and a half.

00:57:26.440 and but because he was such a freak of nature the way he you know his coordination he was able to

00:57:32.300 you know become number one-on-one most players that you see playing on tv at wimbledon in the

00:57:36.360 u.s open they've probably started playing tennis around five or six years old and they do other

00:57:41.920 you know we encourage our academy kids to do other things to do other sports not specialize so young

00:57:46.960 but it is becoming more and more difficult because the level is getting better and better

00:57:52.720 you know, as kids, you know, in all sports, you know, travel soccer teams and travel across. And

00:57:56.960 so they feel pressured to do more at a younger age. There's the economic side of it, which we're

00:58:03.820 all guilty of, you know, whether it's our tennis academy or the people running travel soccer teams,

00:58:08.860 you know, so that pressure is there. And then as kids just play more, you know, the average kid

00:58:14.320 gets better. And so the bar gets raised for everyone. So what I'm seeing and what I've seen

00:58:19.600 in college tennis and as you rightly mentioned it's starting to happen in a lot of other sports

00:58:24.420 as well but tennis is like the canary in the coal mine on this story because the numbers for

00:58:28.780 division one college tennis of international players um is well over 60 percent of division

00:58:37.420 one uh players and the numbers have gone up exponentially in the last like 20 years so to me

00:58:43.780 it's not it's not a I love having international players in all sports and I think there's just

00:58:50.020 there just needs to be a balance because what I've seen in the last 10-15 years it's just

00:58:54.640 continue to go down this path and and then now working at our tennis academy where I run into

00:59:00.120 parents and the parents are you know their kids aren't going to be professionals Megan right but

00:59:04.160 their goal for many of these kids is can I play in college am I good enough to play in college and

00:59:09.900 You know, I'm getting a lot of pushback on all my accounts.

00:59:13.080 You know, oh, Patrick, you know, you're a loud mouth

00:59:15.460 and you're just trying to get attention for yourself.

00:59:17.720 And, you know, American players just need to get better.

00:59:20.740 They need to be better.

00:59:21.720 Our kids need to get better.

00:59:22.940 And I'm like, isn't that professional sports?

00:59:26.380 Is that supposed to be what college sports is about?

00:59:29.780 I personally don't think it is.

00:59:31.300 You have to be at the top of your game just to get in?

00:59:32.980 Just to get in and get a place to play, a place to participate.

00:59:37.060 Now, of course, it's not about participation.

00:59:39.040 I mean, these kids that are training, the international kids oftentimes have already

00:59:43.540 played professionally for a couple of years in Europe.

00:59:46.020 That's the difference.

00:59:47.060 A lot of those European kids go right out into the pro leagues or try to make it pro. 0.88

00:59:50.760 And they're really good, but they can't quite make it to the top echelon. 0.90

00:59:54.740 So now you have somebody who's played a little bit of pro and is 25 or 24 years old as a

00:59:59.760 candidate against a 17-year-old high school kid, American.

01:00:03.680 That to me, there's just something that doesn't, just not right, that that's continuing to

01:00:07.940 happen.

01:00:08.140 So the eligibility rules have to be tightened.

01:00:11.440 I don't believe that you should be playing any sport in college, whether it's Carson Beck, who was a quarterback at the University of Miami.

01:00:17.140 He transferred from Georgia.

01:00:18.700 He's 25, 26 years old.

01:00:21.140 And in tennis, you're seeing more that happen quite often in college.

01:00:25.520 10. You know, if they can't get these things under control, then I think you have to start

01:00:31.220 talking about the possibility of should there be some type of quota system of international cap on

01:00:36.800 how many or at least a cap for American players to get spots on teams. And maybe there's a way

01:00:42.220 to incentivize the university to say, hey, if you have X number of Americans, we'll give you some,

01:00:47.160 you know, part of your NIL money can go to that sport. And maybe it's different for each sport

01:00:51.280 because, but as I said, tennis is the sport now

01:00:55.060 that has by far the most international players

01:00:57.780 in the lineups of, I mean, I'm watching,

01:01:00.500 this is what prompted me to get involved

01:01:02.340 because I was sitting at home about a month ago

01:01:05.540 and I'm waiting for the Knick game,

01:01:07.260 the playoff game to come on on a Sunday.

01:01:08.940 And I see on my screen, college tennis.

01:01:12.280 So it was on ESPN SEC network.

01:01:14.840 So I turn it on and it's between Texas and Mississippi State.

01:01:18.320 It's the finals or semi-finals?

01:01:20.840 Finals of the SEC tournament, men's tournament.

01:01:23.740 I hear the guys commentating, the other ESPN guys.

01:01:26.460 I know them.

01:01:26.840 I text them.

01:01:27.300 Hey, you guys sound great.

01:01:28.200 I said, by the way, just for my own interest, how many Americans are on the court?

01:01:31.300 There are 12 players on the court, six from each team.

01:01:34.320 One.

01:01:35.320 Okay.

01:01:35.920 So my mind starts clicking.

01:01:37.260 I just put a tweet out with no commentary, just a fax.

01:01:41.560 I'm here.

01:01:42.180 I'm watching the SEC final.

01:01:44.160 There's 12 players on the court.

01:01:45.940 There's one American.

01:01:46.760 and that created like this groundswell um and then i found out i was wrong there was actually 1.00

01:01:53.580 two because someone of course corrected me right away said no pat you're an idiot you don't know 0.98

01:01:57.720 what you're talking about there's two there's two americans one guy had a very spanish sounding name 0.99

01:02:03.720 and then i looked him up and it turned out he was from florida so and then i anyway then i went to

01:02:09.420 the acc championship match which is also two heavyweights in tennis university of virginia

01:02:14.680 and wake forest by the way university of virginia just won the title but they were playing in the

01:02:20.160 acc final one american so you got you got 20 so you got 24 players in four big time tennis schools

01:02:28.060 on these two big conferences and you've got a total of three americans and then i i started

01:02:33.500 you know a lot of people started reaching out to me positive and negative and then i found well in

01:02:38.440 the big east tournament you which was between i think it was st john's and de paul not tennis

01:02:43.520 powerhouses, Megan. Okay. None of their players have any thought about being professional tennis

01:02:48.880 players. No offense, gentlemen. No offense. Exactly. Exactly. And same numbers. Wow. Same

01:02:55.420 numbers. Even at the less competitive colleges. Correct. And so this is what I'm hearing. I've

01:03:00.720 been hearing from parents. You know, one parent said to me, who's, who's the son is actually got

01:03:06.420 a division one scholarship at a, at a lower level tennis school. And she said to me, she said,

01:03:11.580 patrick my son would never have put himself through you know all the training all the

01:03:18.060 tournaments of course the expenses for the family it's an expensive sport um and if he didn't think

01:03:24.380 that he could possibly play division one he said and he said she said trust me when i tell you this

01:03:29.380 it's it's very similar from all the kids because they all know that the chances of them being pro

01:03:35.200 is one percent, right? But that's the carrot that's there. And so I'm worried now that the

01:03:44.360 elite players find their way through the program. Because a lot of people say, well, we, the United

01:03:49.980 States, has the most American male players in the top 100 in the rankings. And the same for the

01:03:55.020 female players. Wait, what do you mean? In the world, in the professional ranks. Oh, okay, okay.

01:03:58.800 So quite a few of them now came through the collegiate ranks. Ben Shelton, who's the highest

01:04:04.340 ranked american player emma navarro who was in the top 10 peyton sterns played at the university

01:04:09.760 of texas so i i got a list of players that played in college so for them in a way the foreign

01:04:16.300 competition has possibly helped them because they're the elite player but they're the they're

01:04:20.760 the less than one percent i'm worried about the 99 and i'm worried about the pipeline of players

01:04:26.200 that will come through the system of tournament tennis and have that goal and i think that goal

01:04:32.520 is i don't think i know it's getting much harder to reach let's control some of the issues with

01:04:38.080 the age eligibility you know international players can also get designated as an olympic

01:04:44.160 potential olympic athlete by countries and then therefore they don't have to practice the you know

01:04:49.400 the 20 hours a week you know it's a 20-hour rule to practice for for division one tennis okay and

01:04:55.660 so if you get this whatever they call it um marker that you are now able to you come from

01:05:02.340 I'm making up the country, Croatia, and Croatia says, you know, this person could potentially be

01:05:07.220 an Olympic athlete for us one day. By the way, not just tennis, swimming, gymnastics, water polo,

01:05:13.860 you name it. They can practice as much as they want with their college teams. I'm like, wait a

01:05:19.360 second. How does that make any sense? So they don't have to practice with their team? Well,

01:05:22.620 no, they can practice with their team, but the American kids can only practice 20 hours if they

01:05:28.400 haven't been designated as a possible Olympic athlete, which is, of course, it's much more

01:05:31.800 difficult to get that designation by their governing body for whatever sport that is so

01:05:36.800 there's all sorts of things that are happening and you know i i'm getting ready to go to washington

01:05:42.000 with some some people that i know because there's people behind the scenes trying to get um some of

01:05:47.360 these issues addressed um and i'm i'm looking forward to get you know just be part of that

01:05:52.420 conversation so how can we figure out let let there's got to be some guardrails here because

01:05:58.320 again, I'm all for international play. I played tennis my whole life. I traveled the world. I've

01:06:03.180 been very lucky to travel and continue to travel. I have some of my great friends that are from all

01:06:07.480 over the world. It's one of the great things about being in tennis. You see them a couple

01:06:10.400 times a year. You reminisce about when we were teenagers playing. So very blessed to be able to

01:06:16.020 do that. But at some point, what are American universities supposed to be about? If they're

01:06:21.300 only about winning, which I think we've, we've, we've taken that step in football and certainly

01:06:28.140 basketball, that it's just about winning. So the schools are going to pay whatever they have to

01:06:32.720 pay to get these athletes to play. Okay. But is it the same for all the Olympic sports? Because

01:06:37.180 if it is, then I believe in 10 years, we're going to be looking at a much different outlook of what

01:06:43.360 our sports look like. We're not going to have any Americans on our Olympic teams. Who will be on

01:06:48.800 them? Well, I remember, Megan, when I went to Stanford as a freshman, and I was one of the top

01:06:53.420 junior tennis players, and I got a scholarship to go to Stanford. Our parents were very into us

01:07:00.240 being educated well and went above and beyond to give us great opportunities. So we had the

01:07:05.440 opportunity to play tennis, to use that as a way to get further educated. Now, of course, my brother

01:07:10.980 ended up being number one. I ended up being a reasonably successful player. But for me, when I

01:07:15.160 went to college i didn't know i could be a professional but i got to stanford i played

01:07:20.140 number six on the team my first few months of the season because i had all these guys ahead of me

01:07:24.340 that were had also been you know number one recruit but then i was walking around the campus

01:07:28.400 and i'd go to the i meet people in my dorm or i'd go to the swimming pool there were olympic

01:07:33.380 athletes olympians gold medalists swimming on the stanford swimming team playing on the water

01:07:40.200 polo team so i got like you know that will wake up i'm just a tennis player who's a decent you

01:07:44.380 know national tennis player my point is that you bring up a great point our university system has

01:07:50.400 been the training ground for many of our olympic athletes over the years and i think we we want

01:07:56.260 that to continue and you know there's a competitive side of me that wants americans to do well uh i

01:08:02.620 realize that some are saying well you're you know your american players are soft and they just got

01:08:07.180 to get better there's got to be some guardrails about who can get these opportunities and we have

01:08:13.880 to take pride and continue to train our best kids and give the kids the opportunity that maybe that's

01:08:20.460 still there if parent if people like the parent i spoke to at our tennis academy think that's not

01:08:25.500 there anymore then i'm worried about what the future of these other sports other than the big

01:08:30.320 two looks like for the american youth because if you think about it these colleges make all their

01:08:35.680 money off of football and basketball correct when it comes to athletics and all the other sports

01:08:39.020 are kind of an inconvenience to them but are necessary by the they have to have i think at

01:08:43.680 16 under the law. But the other reason I think they have them still is it spurs alumni donations.

01:08:51.440 If you get a team going, let's take Wake Forest, who won the championship last year.

01:08:55.400 Last year, right.

01:08:57.060 It feels good to go back to Wake Forest as an alum. Of course.

01:08:59.820 If you played there on the tennis team and you helped win a national championship,

01:09:03.360 you're going to give more money. And if you support that player or you know that player,

01:09:06.840 you're going to give more money and so on. And it feels good for the people who are there to

01:09:09.660 see their team win the championship. So it can be a money-making opportunity with the donors,

01:09:14.220 like the alums, but it's not a money-making opportunity in the moment for the school.

01:09:18.760 And we actually know somebody who was on that winning team. And he was telling us that they

01:09:23.280 were like, we made it into the finals. Like we're going to the national championship.

01:09:26.920 This is so amazing. Right. And the school was kind of like, uh, it's going to cost us a lot

01:09:31.380 of money to ship you guys. Cause if you could wrap it up quickly, it's not like making the

01:09:36.720 finals on the football team. So what does this just start at square one with like asking these

01:09:43.400 colleges to answer that question? What is the purpose of college athletics, sport to sport?

01:09:50.260 What is the purpose? Right? Because I think that's part of the reason why I put this trying to get

01:09:55.640 the conversation out there that I think we need to have this conversation with people like you

01:10:00.740 and people in the mainstream to start to understand. Because if we just wanted to be

01:10:05.660 like professionalized as it is in football and basketball and everybody loves to see their team

01:10:10.680 win you know there's there's the illinois basketball team just by the way that made the

01:10:15.780 final four i believe half about half of their team were international players okay so now maybe

01:10:21.080 they're not going to care in those it'll never happen in football because we're the only country

01:10:25.240 that plays football yeah we've got no one else plays we got that yeah but in basketball you know

01:10:29.800 the golf numbers are going up particularly women's golf collegiate golf the numbers are going up

01:10:34.080 Because, again, and not only are they getting, you know, there's great coaches in all these colleges, but I know tennis well.

01:10:41.820 Great coaches, great facilities, great competition for these players.

01:10:46.040 So if you're an international player who's on the cusp of maybe becoming a pro or not, you're like, well, I could go and I can train for a few years.

01:10:53.760 And I can play professional tournaments in the offseason, of which they're allowing them to do that more and more.

01:10:59.980 And now I can actually make a little money.

01:11:01.820 Can you believe it?

01:11:02.680 I mean, there's college tennis players, some, not like in football and basketball, making six figures.

01:11:08.480 Because of the name, image, and likeness thing?

01:11:10.260 Yeah, exactly.

01:11:10.640 And because what you mentioned, if they have a good donor base at some of these schools, and someone wants to donate, make it up another million dollars to the tennis program, they can then use that money to recruit players.

01:11:22.720 They can steal a player from another competitive college, too, with that money.

01:11:26.740 The portal is crazy, what's going on in every sport.

01:11:29.740 So that's, to me, also something that needs to be reined in a little bit.

01:11:34.280 I mean, maybe you can transfer once throughout your career.

01:11:38.100 They keep moving from the highest bidder to the highest bidder because these schools can now say, oh, I'm going to give you $500,000 under the name, image, and likeness permission policy.

01:11:49.400 And they say, great.

01:11:50.440 But really, it's nine times out of ten just a slush fund that donors put together.

01:11:54.840 It really doesn't have anything to do with NIL.

01:11:56.880 And I covered the NCAA basketball tournament quite a bit on my radio show.

01:12:02.080 And I called it, you know, the disappearance of the mid-major, you know, the Cinderella.

01:12:05.480 There's no more Cinderella's in basketball.

01:12:07.680 I heard you say this.

01:12:08.860 I thought this was very interesting during the NCAA tournament because it was like,

01:12:11.460 what ever happened to the Cinderella story?

01:12:13.100 And why isn't it there?

01:12:14.040 It's because of the name, image, and likeness thing.

01:12:15.880 Yeah, so if you're, let's say, a mid-major team and you've got a couple of players that are really good,

01:12:21.320 guess what's going to happen to them once everybody sees them on the national stage and your team does well?

01:12:25.780 What do you think is going to happen to them

01:12:26.900 after their freshman year of college?

01:12:28.700 Get poached.

01:12:29.100 They're going to get poached by one of the big,

01:12:30.540 big-name universities with a big slush fund.

01:12:33.140 And those teams are just going to continue to get better.

01:12:35.680 And then it's going to push out, you know,

01:12:37.680 the little guy who had that chance.

01:12:39.500 It's part of what made the NCAA tournament amazing,

01:12:42.160 that you could see someone, you know,

01:12:43.460 St. Mary's or St. Joe's, you know,

01:12:45.360 upset a number one or two seed.

01:12:47.800 That, you know, that's the business side of it.

01:12:50.220 And I don't think that's going to change

01:12:51.640 just because there's so much money involved in those sports.

01:12:54.060 But that's having a trickle-down effect into sports like tennis and Olympic sport.

01:12:59.040 You know, maybe people say, who cares?

01:13:00.360 We don't care about tennis.

01:13:01.300 Tennis isn't popular.

01:13:02.940 Well, I care about it.

01:13:04.280 Tennis is popular.

01:13:04.820 Yeah, and I know people care about their, like you said, their sports, whether it's swimming, whether it's gymnastics, whether it's golf.

01:13:10.860 And I think this is an issue that we need to keep talking about and say, okay, if we can't come up with some – I've given you some idea of what some of the solutions could be.

01:13:19.960 if you're if you're pick a number 23 or 24 i would say you're done playing college tennis

01:13:26.360 i don't care if you were injured for two years yes i don't care if you serve like a lot of

01:13:29.940 these initiatives in the military their military service you get to a certain age you're done

01:13:35.100 i think that's reasonable because truly if you take a 25 year old you know student from abroad

01:13:40.820 who's been playing professional tennis for a couple of years and now wants to come to stanford

01:13:45.080 and play against your kid who's 17 or 18,

01:13:48.680 and he and his parents or she and her parents

01:13:50.740 are thinking that they'll further develop

01:13:53.120 over those four years.

01:13:54.500 Like, they're going to get crushed.

01:13:56.080 There's no competition between somebody

01:13:57.480 who's that physically developed

01:13:58.640 and been on the pro circuit

01:13:59.980 and a high school junior or senior.

01:14:02.380 Someone sent me a great message

01:14:03.940 about this particular topic

01:14:05.960 when they said, imagine yourself

01:14:08.180 as an incoming freshman.

01:14:11.020 Patrick McEnroe is a young, hot recruit,

01:14:13.220 but I'm going to play number six on the team.

01:14:14.620 playing against yourself at 24 when i made the semifinals the australian open and you know beat

01:14:21.280 boris becker in australian you know what i'm saying like that version of myself against the

01:14:25.580 18 you know i'd win 6-1 6-1 yeah the old and so to me that's that that's happening far too often

01:14:31.860 um in the collegiate game and again it's not it's not it can't be to me about just winning

01:14:41.400 Well, because I also look at the number of donations

01:14:43.580 that they may be getting off of having a winning tennis team.

01:14:46.440 I'm not picking on Wake Forest.

01:14:47.700 I have no idea whether they got donations or didn't.

01:14:49.520 Or let's do UVA because they won it this year.

01:14:52.440 Let's say they got some amount of donations coming in from alumni

01:14:55.940 who feel great about UVA tennis because they won the national championships.

01:15:00.140 It can't be that big.

01:15:01.340 It's not going to be that much.

01:15:02.340 It can't be that big.

01:15:02.820 Is that worth the sacrifice of our American boys and girls?

01:15:06.860 I don't think so.

01:15:07.780 Why wouldn't we say, because you point out in your op-ed,

01:15:09.740 I didn't mention the op-ed, but you wrote a piece in the Wall Street Journal called

01:15:13.200 Where Are All the Americans in American College Tennis?

01:15:16.920 And you guys should Google it.

01:15:18.140 It hit on me first.

01:15:19.520 But one of the points you were making is, no, it cannot be all about winning,

01:15:23.260 especially because we're in tennis.

01:15:24.480 We're not in basketball.

01:15:25.520 We're not in football.

01:15:26.660 So what is it about?

01:15:28.040 Okay, maybe alumni donations.

01:15:29.680 That doesn't seem like a big enough number to justify the sacrifice of all of our boys and girls' development.

01:15:34.280 So what about that?

01:15:35.480 Like there used to be, you posit, a commitment to the development of American kids in tennis and other, you know, sort of less than top tier sports in terms of money making and and like the nurturing and just the like the joy that that brings to American kids who want to play tennis at the college level.

01:15:55.620 And like you, maybe you want to use it to get into an institution that they otherwise couldn't, right?

01:16:00.460 But instead, we're giving all those spots at Stanford now, the one that you had at Harvard, wherever, to kids from other countries who probably aren't even going to stay here.

01:16:09.160 And they're definitely not going to be donating a bunch of money back to that school.

01:16:12.640 They're going to go home and bring all of that to their home country.

01:16:14.840 I think a lot of them can't even get a visa to work here. 0.88

01:16:17.200 So I think they have to leave when they're done.

01:16:19.620 So no, you don't get that same commitment.

01:16:21.800 I mean, I love my years at Stanford.

01:16:23.480 You know, some of my best friends are still my buddies I met there, not on the tennis team.

01:16:27.400 You know, guys have played football, other sports.

01:16:29.380 And we have a text chain.

01:16:31.320 We communicate all the time.

01:16:33.500 And that's going around, happening all over the country with people.

01:16:37.160 And that's a connection that we all have with our universities.

01:16:40.800 And it's unique.

01:16:41.620 You know, in other countries, there's no sporting programs in Europe and France and Italy and Germany where, you know, they go to university there and they go to university to learn a trade.

01:16:52.220 They don't go to play tennis.

01:16:53.480 to play soccer. And there's these sort of semi-professional leagues that have been ongoing

01:16:57.900 in other sports in Europe, whether it's in soccer, where they basically get brought along as

01:17:04.640 professionals. And by the way, there's professional leagues in Europe that have caps on how many

01:17:13.000 international players they can have. Even in La Liga, which is like the biggest league in Spain,

01:17:19.840 You know, there are caps on how many non-Spanish players.

01:17:22.900 They take care of their own. 0.90

01:17:23.760 And this is professional sports.

01:17:25.460 Yes.

01:17:26.460 They're taking care of their own.

01:17:27.660 This is exactly like the Chinese thing that Trump just announced. 0.69

01:17:30.500 Where we're going to now, first he said, we're going to let 300,000 people, students come over to our universities.

01:17:34.820 And people on the right freaked out about it.

01:17:36.720 And then he upped it to 500,000.

01:17:38.820 Okay. 0.53

01:17:39.040 So now it's 500,000 Chinese students who are going to come into our American universities and take a spot that otherwise would have gone to an American. 0.98

01:17:45.340 and they're probably going to go back home 0.94

01:17:48.380 with those educations.

01:17:49.660 Guess how many students we have

01:17:51.080 that are American at a Chinese university?

01:17:53.240 Zero. 0.60

01:17:53.880 Guess how much Chinese farmland Americans own?

01:17:58.220 Zero. 1.00

01:17:59.000 It only goes one way

01:18:00.460 and there's no protectionism.

01:18:02.580 Like even the Europeans have figured out

01:18:04.220 to protect their professional sports league.

01:18:05.820 I mean, I think we as Americans

01:18:09.040 like the fact that we can be a little more welcoming

01:18:12.380 than some of the countries you just mentioned.

01:18:14.080 And to me, that's important to us as a country.

01:18:16.380 Nor do our people really want to go to China.

01:18:18.000 Well, that's another issue.

01:18:19.860 But again, I've said this before,

01:18:21.700 and I'm going to say it again because I believe it.

01:18:24.100 I like having international players.

01:18:26.040 I like having international students at campuses.

01:18:28.980 But there's got to be some limits.

01:18:30.980 That's all I'm saying.

01:18:31.920 There's got to be some limits.

01:18:32.820 And if we can't figure out a way,

01:18:35.260 at least in the athletic side of the equation,

01:18:38.380 to limit or I should say increase the opportunities

01:18:42.440 for our kids then i think we have to at least start talking about is it 20 is it 30 of you know

01:18:51.320 the roster for i'm making it up university of virginia stanford by the way stanford actually

01:18:56.220 has a lot of americans on their team which is unusual the two teams that made it to the sweet

01:18:59.840 16 in men's center stanford and ohio state all of their players were american wow okay because they

01:19:06.200 the coaches there decide they want but and again i'm not in no way am i blaming the coaches of the

01:19:10.920 other universities they're just trying to get the best players to win of all the other ones in the

01:19:14.900 sweet 16 i gave you the numbers earlier it's like three or four americans yeah i we talked to one of

01:19:20.380 my producers is married to a former uh d1 player at usc and uh who won all sorts of awards all

01:19:26.040 american and his dad was the coach for years at usc tennis dick leach my i don't don't know of 0.95

01:19:32.320 his okay what's his name lauren what is it peter smith oh peter smith he came after dick leach 0.97

01:19:37.400 Oh yeah, he played you and he lost to you. 0.95

01:19:39.100 Peter Smith, yeah.

01:19:39.960 I think he played at, was it Cal or he might've played at Cal.

01:19:42.620 That's in my pattern.

01:19:43.080 Anyway, when he was at-

01:19:44.960 Long Beach State.

01:19:45.340 Long Beach State, yeah, yeah.

01:19:46.680 So he, she gave me some of the notes from her husband

01:19:49.540 and from his dad in preparation for this.

01:19:52.400 And he said that one year when he was coach of USC

01:19:55.740 and they won the national championship-

01:19:57.200 A bunch of times.

01:19:57.440 Yeah, like four or five times under his leadership. 0.53

01:19:59.500 But one year he went all American.

01:20:01.840 And he said it was the worst year they ever had.

01:20:03.700 Yeah, that's the reality.

01:20:05.460 Yeah, because these other guys-

01:20:07.340 like these stallions exactly and also you know i'll be honest tennis is more popular in europe

01:20:12.980 so there's more because that's all they have that's all they play soccer and tennis soccer

01:20:17.260 10 i mean there's you know basketball is getting bigger in in spain and in france and certain we

01:20:21.700 see the guy for the san antonio spurs not bad seven six one by ama from the spurs yeah he's

01:20:26.960 pretty darn good um but there's so there's more better players in europe just because there's

01:20:32.680 there's there's there's more numbers um but that being said the way they're sort of skirting

01:20:38.100 around these eligibility issues to me is a is a major problem with the age with the age with um

01:20:44.060 coming in after like you said they've played professionally semi-professionally for a couple

01:20:48.300 of years you know from the time they're 16 they start playing on the tour and then what what it

01:20:52.920 used to happen to a lot of these european players when i was a kid and when i was playing in europe

01:20:57.700 and the junior french open and all that they would either they would go on to the pro tour

01:21:01.440 and if they didn't make it, they'd quit, you know, at 2021.

01:21:05.000 They'd be like, I can't make it, I'm good,

01:21:06.420 but I'm not good enough to make it.

01:21:07.680 And it's hard to make money as a professional tennis player.

01:21:09.620 It's not like the other sports.

01:21:10.620 It's not as many numbers.

01:21:11.420 You have to be in the top 100, top tier.

01:21:14.400 So now they're saying, oh, I'll just go to college.

01:21:17.480 Yeah, and I can make money.

01:21:18.480 I can make some money.

01:21:19.560 Get a degree.

01:21:20.080 And you're seeing some European players now

01:21:22.980 that are very successful on the pro tour

01:21:25.700 that spent four or five years in college.

01:21:28.460 And now in their mid to late 20s,

01:21:30.900 they're kind of breaking into the top of professional tennis and i'm all for the story

01:21:35.000 is great i mean a great story is i don't care where you come from but i i do care that uh

01:21:39.800 it's limiting opportunities for our kids yeah and for the parents that are dedicated to it

01:21:45.100 with all due respect to djokovic and and and sinner um alcaraz we do we do want to see americans

01:21:52.260 dominate these tournaments and i like my husband knows james blake a bit yeah and he went to harvard

01:22:00.620 and really apparently like blew up at Harvard.

01:22:03.700 Like he was amazing,

01:22:04.740 way better than they thought he was going to be.

01:22:06.980 And I think after his sophomore year-

01:22:09.020 Then he went, I think two years.

01:22:09.540 Yeah, after his sophomore year,

01:22:10.680 he left and went pro and had a very successful-

01:22:13.100 Very successful.

01:22:13.580 Like he was number five in the world at one point.

01:22:15.080 So like these American universities

01:22:17.380 can actually help our boys-

01:22:19.340 Definitely, and girls, and girls.

01:22:21.180 Yeah, and girls, but like go from great to next level.

01:22:24.720 Totally. 0.81

01:22:25.180 And set them up for success on the pro tour,

01:22:26.800 which Americans do want to see.

01:22:27.840 I think most Americans would prefer to see

01:22:29.220 our boys and girls crushing it on the pro circuit, having gone through an American university,

01:22:34.920 then, you know, they had a great high school career that petered into nothing. And now we

01:22:39.340 have all foreigners dominating the Grand Slam tournaments. Yeah. I mean, there is a little

01:22:44.360 difference in that pro tennis is different in my view than collegiate tennis, but I get your point,

01:22:49.380 which is that, of course, I was just on a Zoom call with the press with my brother about our

01:22:53.480 Mac Zone show at the French Open next week. And one of the questions that we often get asked,

01:22:58.980 and we got asked again was, which American male can win a major? 1.00

01:23:02.900 Because, you know, you've got a sinner now. 1.00

01:23:04.420 Al Kras is injured, unfortunately, but those two have won the last nine in a row. 0.99

01:23:08.520 And we both said the same name, Ben Shelton, who played two years at the University of Florida.

01:23:13.700 His dad played on the tour when I was on the tour, Brian Shelton.

01:23:17.760 Great kid, great charisma.

01:23:19.740 Does he have a chance to win a major?

01:23:21.160 Yes.

01:23:21.500 Of course, we all, as American fans, would love to see that happen.

01:23:24.120 But here's a kid that played football as a youth, as a young kid, didn't go to tennis, you know, completely until he was 13 or 14.

01:23:32.320 His dad, he said, it was funny, he said to his dad once, hey, dad, I want to go play, you know, international tournaments.

01:23:38.500 And his dad looked at him and says, why?

01:23:40.400 He says, have you won all the tournaments in Florida?

01:23:43.620 Have you won all the tournaments in the U.S.?

01:23:45.180 When you do that, there's no one else for you to play, but, you know, so far you're not doing that.

01:23:49.060 So he's a great story because it's like all the things that we would love to see, you know, well-rounded youth doing different sports, then concentrating on tennis, going to play at the university.

01:23:58.560 His dad was a coach at Florida when he won it.

01:24:00.820 Great story.

01:24:01.960 So we want to see that and we want to have that be the opportunity for more of our kids.

01:24:08.100 Is it true that Yannick Sinner didn't really get serious about tennis until he was 14?

01:24:13.520 Do you know that?

01:24:13.940 I heard that about his backstory.

01:24:15.380 I would say that that's not entirely true because he was a world-class skier until the time he was 12.

01:24:22.980 So he skied and he played tennis, and he was also quite good at tennis.

01:24:27.600 I believe it was around the age of 12 that he made the decision.

01:24:30.780 He tells a very funny story about it.

01:24:32.780 He said he was a downhill racer, and he said, you make one mistake in the downhill and you're done.

01:24:38.600 Yeah.

01:24:38.900 He raced over.

01:24:39.980 In tennis, you can make some mistakes.

01:24:41.920 You're still okay.

01:24:42.620 You just lose a point.

01:24:43.920 It's true.

01:24:44.240 So he decided to stick with tennis.

01:24:45.980 But you can see when he plays, you watch him play.

01:24:48.820 He's very long and gangly.

01:24:50.980 Doug says he's like a praying mantis.

01:24:52.700 He's like a praying mantis.

01:24:53.800 He says, that's good.

01:24:54.340 Get him on TV with me.

01:24:55.520 Yeah, I know.

01:24:56.420 I do.

01:24:56.980 Actually, Doug would love that.

01:24:58.060 Yeah, but he slides around.

01:24:59.340 He was sitting in that seat here yesterday.

01:25:00.560 Yeah, I heard.

01:25:01.180 That was a big show.

01:25:02.120 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:03.540 So yes, you hear those stories.

01:25:06.560 Roger Federer was a great soccer player.

01:25:08.380 Yeah.

01:25:08.760 And played a lot of soccer in total.

01:25:09.980 Usually for someone that becomes an all-time, or even just a pro player, usually around 12, 13, you then kind of have to make the decision, okay, I'm going to go strictly with tennis. 0.86

01:25:20.720 And that's what Sinner did.

01:25:22.740 So I think it was around 12. 0.84

01:25:24.260 Okay.

01:25:24.620 I mean, he's incredible to watch.

01:25:26.100 Yes.

01:25:26.820 We're going to take a break and we're going to come back.

01:25:28.320 But when we come back, I want to ask you a couple of other questions and we'll continue this discussion.

01:25:31.700 I want to talk to you about steroids in sports, because that is another thing I hear from a lot

01:25:36.600 of moms I know about why they don't want their kids to push into college level athletics,

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01:28:33.200 Conditions apply.

01:28:34.120 See website for details.

01:28:36.000 All right, full-time thoughts.

01:28:37.460 Craig, who stood out?

01:28:38.460 Brazil's lime cheesecake started bright, didn't let up.

01:28:40.980 Nah, for me, Italian cappuccino was the standout in the box.

01:28:44.060 But if we're talking decadent performance, 0.95

01:28:45.980 that's all France.

01:28:46.880 Chocolate creme brulee had the richest finishes.

01:28:49.280 Canadian fireworks really showed up big too.

01:28:51.080 And Mexico's Caramel Churro Ice Cap

01:28:53.520 Gave me chills

01:28:54.560 We are, of course, talking about Tim's taste of the globe lineup

01:28:57.540 New globally inspired Timbits and Ice Cap flavors

01:29:00.100 Available at Tim Hortons for a limited time

01:29:02.040 Picks them up today

01:29:02.880 And while you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily

01:29:21.080 Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan,

01:29:25.720 Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the

01:29:32.740 Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app. Back with me now, Patrick McEnroe,

01:29:43.220 ESPN analyst and host of Holding Court with Patrick McEnroe on Sirius XM Mad Dog Sports Radio.

01:29:49.180 I would be remiss if I didn't play this soundbite that my team has cut of your brother, because we love this piece of him like all Americans do.

01:29:58.400 He's got a temper.

01:29:59.880 Yes, he does.

01:30:00.420 And we are here for it.

01:30:02.060 SOT 20.

01:30:03.280 You can't be serious, man.

01:30:05.020 You cannot be serious.

01:30:06.580 That's my question.

01:30:07.940 Question. 1.00

01:30:08.840 The question, jerk. 1.00

01:30:10.140 I was staying, waiting for him to play. 1.00

01:30:21.360 I've been complaining that he's taking too long.

01:30:23.840 Now, all of a sudden, I'm the guy that gets a penalty.

01:30:27.020 I wonder how that works.

01:30:28.260 Is that your judgment on that?

01:30:29.720 Hey, that's a brilliant judgment.

01:30:31.320 How did you come up with that?

01:30:33.000 How did you come up with such a brilliant decision?

01:30:34.880 That's right.

01:30:40.140 all the finger in the face yeah don't be doing that and he shoves it out of his face gotta love

01:30:47.100 it so you share in his tennis abilities do you share the temper i don't share in either megan

01:30:53.640 for better or worse uh you know it's funny because he's still uh saying those phrases you

01:30:59.900 know my dad tried to trademark you cannot be my dad was an attorney so he tried to trademark you

01:31:04.280 cannot be serious turned out you know not legal too bad but he's you know he's milked it for all

01:31:09.420 it's worth our guests in the first hour the real clear politics guys they actually added a segment

01:31:14.200 to their show because of that called you cannot be serious you're not you can be serious they

01:31:18.320 need to be they need to be paying john for that but my dad used to always say to him

01:31:22.540 first of all he'd say john why do you get so upset you know and my dad would start screaming

01:31:26.780 he was i you know irish um his family came from ireland and he was low uh only child grew up in

01:31:33.280 manhattan with nothing and he said incidentally he started yelling at john like we'd be having

01:31:37.800 dinner or something you know john says i wonder where i got it but he used to say but he in all

01:31:42.360 seriousness he used to tell john whatever you do don't use bad language so you'll notice in all

01:31:47.700 those clips john never you know connor's used to say the raunchy things oh did he big time yeah

01:31:53.380 and if you say you know the f word what do you get an automatic fine oh so so my dad was i said

01:31:58.660 never say the a bad word because that's how you get fined that's you get suspended so that's where

01:32:03.140 he came up with you know you're the pits of the world you cannot be serious those are euphemisms

01:32:07.740 for him yeah it's like he's thinking of something else he says you cannot be right so off camera

01:32:12.260 he's saltier uh no he's mellowed a little bit now he's mellowing but he's um he's he's definitely

01:32:17.700 got a little that rocker edge you know he loves to play guitar he loves art yeah he's always been

01:32:21.940 into art i love that he shoved jimmy connor's face oh yeah he wasn't he wasn't his finger out

01:32:26.380 of his face yeah they're probably still do that today the two of them you know they've been through

01:32:29.720 a lot together how do you think tennis has changed i mean as as i only got into tennis as a spectator

01:32:34.240 when I met Doug 20 years ago.

01:32:36.820 But I mean, the obvious thing is the outfits.

01:32:39.200 That's one thing.

01:32:40.040 The shorts are longer today.

01:32:41.540 But the rackets are so different

01:32:43.280 and so much more capable of power, I guess.

01:32:45.820 And Doug was telling me that there's been a debate

01:32:49.920 about whether they should change the rackets

01:32:51.860 because the serves have gotten so...

01:32:54.820 Dominant?

01:32:55.920 Yeah, like you can almost not hit them.

01:32:58.460 And is that a bad change?

01:33:00.000 The good thing is that the rackets

01:33:02.600 have also helped on the return of serve.

01:33:04.240 Okay. So there was actually a time, especially at Wimbledon in about around 2000, when Pete Sampras was dominating with his serve. And they actually changed the complexion of the grass on the courts at Wimbledon so that it made it a better bounce. It would bounce up a little more because they were worried about exactly that. The game becoming too fast is becoming about the big server.

01:33:24.780 that's actually gone back to where now you know the best players in tennis now are the ones that

01:33:29.980 are the best athletes that can move the best that can retrieve um balls that can obviously play

01:33:35.300 offense so the game is is essentially the same but it's sped up exponentially like if you watch

01:33:41.220 you know my brother playing borg from the u.s open it you know no offense it looks like it's

01:33:46.000 in slow motion compared to the speed and they were using wood rackets right now they were both

01:33:51.020 the best athletes, the best players of their day. And by the way, I believe they would still be the

01:33:55.080 best athletes if they grew up today because they just have the skill. And then you learn to use

01:34:00.960 the equipment that you're given. But definitely the rackets and the string technology has really

01:34:07.600 changed the nature of the game in the last 15 years. The ball, it almost grabs the ball. You

01:34:13.580 can control it. The harder you swing, the more control you have. You get the ball to jump,

01:34:17.080 to have a lot of spin on it so that's really the biggest difference now so but what does that mean

01:34:22.280 that means that the players have to be able to move quicker to get to the ball every point

01:34:26.940 consistently so you're seeing better and better athletes play the game yeah use the technology

01:34:31.560 that's available to them so to me it's much more exciting to watch i mean i love to to watch these

01:34:37.080 fun i mean carlos alcaraz what he's doing on a tennis court yes he's coming up with shots that

01:34:41.760 we used to think weren't even possible it's superhuman that's how it's superhuman and but

01:34:45.520 now what's what's happening megan like even at our you know tennis academy in new york city

01:34:49.600 the kids are watching it and then they're trying to emulate those shots now most of them can't

01:34:54.320 but over time you know that's how the game continues to evolve or alcaraz is on the dead

01:34:59.500 run and you know even great roger fetter novak jogowitz they would get there but they would

01:35:03.740 just kind of get it back now they get there and like i'm gonna hit a winner from that position

01:35:07.780 i'm sinner alcaraz and they can do it or you get um who's the guy with the between the legs that

01:35:12.040 all the kids. Nick Curios. Yeah. All the trick shots. I'm going to get there. I'm going to hit

01:35:15.680 between my legs. Yeah. He did a lot. We actually practice those now at our academy. Of course, 1.00

01:35:20.120 the kids love it. Yeah. They got to have some fun. That's why Curios was good for the game.

01:35:23.780 I know he's controversial, but he was. I think he was good for the game. It's a shame that he

01:35:27.800 didn't get it together from the standpoint of being able to be that showman, but also like be

01:35:32.880 more competitive and win and be like dedicated. So what's going to happen next? Because right now

01:35:38.440 Sinner, he seems to be the tops.

01:35:41.320 Alcaraz is out. 0.99

01:35:42.420 He's out of the French Open. He's injured, and he just announced yesterday

01:35:44.560 he's out of Wimbledon, which is a huge bummer

01:35:46.440 for the tournament. Such a bummer. He's got a wrist problem

01:35:48.440 and nobody really knows exactly what the

01:35:50.380 problem is, but it's obviously serious

01:35:52.580 because for him to take this much time off

01:35:54.320 and announce this far in advance

01:35:56.220 that he's not playing is not good.

01:35:58.260 These two guys have completely

01:36:00.300 distanced themselves from the pack in men's

01:36:02.480 tennis. Now you've got Sinner going

01:36:04.420 into Roland Garros as a huge favorite

01:36:06.560 to try to win it.

01:36:08.180 He almost won it last year in the epic match

01:36:10.060 that Alkares came back from match points down,

01:36:13.140 which is one of the greatest matches I've ever seen.

01:36:15.880 And I was lucky enough to be there live.

01:36:17.800 So it's about him and it's about everyone else.

01:36:19.960 Because, you know, the past 10 years,

01:36:21.380 we've had Federer and Djokovic and Nadal, right?

01:36:24.480 Those three dominated.

01:36:25.360 And we had a couple other guys,

01:36:27.120 like, you know, Andy Murray won three majors.

01:36:30.320 Stan Wawrinka.

01:36:31.680 Who?

01:36:32.360 He was a Brit, wasn't he?

01:36:33.320 Well, he's Scottish. 1.00

01:36:34.220 Oh, okay. 0.80

01:36:34.620 Well, he's a Brit, but he was-

01:36:35.760 But it's important.

01:36:36.060 since you're from ireland yeah we have to be careful yeah well he's very particular about

01:36:39.360 that he's scottish um but the brits love him and you know he was a great player and uh so you had

01:36:45.320 not only the big three but you had a couple other guys that could also you know get in the mix and

01:36:50.260 win a major and at the moment there's nobody i mean jokovic is 38 39 it's crazy where he's like

01:36:56.800 talking about and then he's he got to the finals and beat center in australia this year which to

01:37:00.900 me was one of the greatest performances of his career and this is a guy who's won 24 majors

01:37:06.000 He's won the most of anyone all the time.

01:37:08.420 He's stone cold.

01:37:08.520 Oh, he is.

01:37:08.980 He's like unflappable, that guy.

01:37:10.700 Ruthless.

01:37:11.200 He's just like, the ball goes where he wants it to go.

01:37:13.540 So now everybody in the tennis world is like,

01:37:16.060 okay, maybe this is Djokovic's shot.

01:37:18.300 Because most of us think,

01:37:20.080 probably can't beat Sinner and Alcaraz back to back.

01:37:22.960 He beat Sinner in Australia.

01:37:25.060 Alcaraz beat him in the final.

01:37:26.380 You know, kind of ran out of steam.

01:37:28.200 Alcaraz is, you know, almost 20 years younger.

01:37:31.160 But now if he's going in there thinking,

01:37:32.960 hmm, I just got to beat one of them?

01:37:36.000 You know, because that's why he's still playing.

01:37:38.540 Yeah, he's like, I'm Novak Djokovic, I can do this.

01:37:41.100 I can show the world that I can win one more.

01:37:43.660 Yeah.

01:37:44.100 And maybe, I don't think he can do it in Paris

01:37:47.360 because the clay is, you know,

01:37:48.760 still his most challenging service

01:37:50.980 despite the fact that he's won it three times.

01:37:52.800 This is why I call him the greatest ever

01:37:54.320 because his worst major is Paris, the French Open.

01:37:57.600 He's won it three times.

01:37:58.920 Nadal won Wimbledon twice.

01:38:00.960 And Federer only won the French once in his career.

01:38:03.220 but Djokovic has won everything, you know, a million times.

01:38:07.000 Don't you think the opinion on him has changed?

01:38:09.260 He used to be sort of like a...

01:38:10.380 The bad guy.

01:38:10.920 Yeah, the bad guy, like not that beloved.

01:38:12.760 And he really made people love him just by his tenacity, his strength, his skill.

01:38:17.860 I mean, his ability to see him when he's not the favorite now,

01:38:23.080 as we've seen in the last couple of years.

01:38:24.900 And I think that's what's drawn more of the casual fan to him

01:38:28.440 because it's always like, you know, the Federer fans and the Nadal fans,

01:38:31.800 I mean, they're insane.

01:38:32.920 like that's that's like the yankees or the dodgers you know i'm saying and so this guy

01:38:37.880 jokovic comes along you know with the edge and he's serbian and he's got the background and

01:38:42.560 he's he's just like in your face yeah and so he never had the popularity that those two have had 0.66

01:38:48.200 but now you know people respect him so much more and they also see that he he knows and he said

01:38:54.960 it publicly i'm not as good as sinner and alcaraz right now you know they're just better they're

01:38:59.540 faster they're stronger it's the modern version of the game but he's still out there killing

01:39:03.740 himself just to try to play with him he's like i got a few tricks still yeah he's got my sleeve

01:39:07.900 yes he does also i forgot to mention medvedev he's been fun to watch he is a little bit more

01:39:12.140 colorful with the language he's a little more yes he's got a little johnny mac he's got a little

01:39:15.580 johnny mac in the town yep and uh we'll see what he's got to offer usually doesn't do too well in

01:39:21.200 paris but at wimbledon he'd be a factor and he's one of the few guys that has won a major in the

01:39:26.560 last few years and won the US Open. We were there for that. That was exciting. So speaking of that

01:39:32.660 level of play, steroids, for parents who are out there wondering what percentage, and we're not

01:39:39.700 going to name anybody, of course, but like what percentage of the players are likely using them?

01:39:44.020 What would you guess? I would say it's pretty minimal. I mean, yeah, you know, tennis players

01:39:48.660 get tested all the time. You know, but aren't there ways around the test? There probably are.

01:39:53.780 But at the same time, it's pretty stringent, the testing protocol.

01:39:57.820 So I'm not a pharmaceutical expert.

01:40:00.440 So I can only surmise that they're doing as much as they can to keep it clean.

01:40:08.160 You know, there's no way for me to know if someone's using or not and not getting caught.

01:40:14.220 You know, if they're not getting caught, then to me, they're not using.

01:40:17.320 That's how I look at it.

01:40:17.980 Maybe I'm naive.

01:40:18.680 I can tell you this though, Megan, that tennis players have to let them know their whereabouts every single day of the year.

01:40:28.940 Oh, really?

01:40:29.260 So if you're on vacation in December with your family, you know, in Hawaii, they can come and show up at your hotel room at six in the morning.

01:40:39.020 Is that right?

01:40:39.440 And not only get a urine test, but get a blood test.

01:40:42.360 Where they watch you, right?

01:40:43.680 Yeah, they watch you urinate.

01:40:45.060 They do.

01:40:45.400 It's not like you can just sneak in the stall.

01:40:46.960 sneak in and you know grab someone else's which is a thing which is a thing which has been some

01:40:50.920 people have been caught doing that so that's why i say um you know people are always going to look

01:40:56.580 to get an edge right whether it's it you know hopefully it's legal you know there's also some

01:41:01.580 you know whether taking vitamins and all these supplements and recovery and to me that's the

01:41:06.800 biggest thing that's changed about at least professional tennis that i can see is that the

01:41:11.540 attention to detail for the recovery for the reason jokovic has been able to play this long

01:41:16.620 at this level, of course, it's because of his skill and his ability and his heart and his guts,

01:41:21.340 but it's also because you've learned how to take care of the body better than anyone, you know,

01:41:25.900 everything he eats, what he puts in his system. That doesn't strike me as, you know, and so the

01:41:31.220 bar has been raised. So I think all these players are trying to figure out, okay, what can I do

01:41:35.720 that's legal that will give me the best edge? Now there's players that have been caught doing

01:41:40.700 illegal stuff. Usually they, you know, usually in tennis, they take a steroid that would be

01:41:45.220 something that would help you in recovery. So it tends to be someone that's coming back from an

01:41:48.260 injury where they would take something that would help the recovery process. But it's not like a

01:41:53.520 steroid is going to help you with probably endurance or things. Maybe it just helps you

01:41:57.740 train harder. So I honestly don't think there's a huge problem in tennis. Again, maybe I'm naive.

01:42:03.480 I hope you're right.

01:42:04.260 Yeah, I think I'm right.

01:42:05.180 What percentage of the game would you say is mental versus physical?

01:42:10.500 Well, so to differentiate you from someone who's of an equal ability,

01:42:15.100 the mental part is huge.

01:42:16.740 But I tell this story to people.

01:42:18.540 Like when I played in my day, I was like a journeyman player

01:42:21.560 ranked between 25 and 30 and 50 and 70.

01:42:26.120 If I played Andre Agassi and he was playing, I had no chance.

01:42:30.800 I had no chance to beat him.

01:42:31.980 He was that much better.

01:42:32.580 He was just that much better than me.

01:42:33.600 It doesn't mean to mentally.

01:42:34.700 Now, if I played someone, you know, Boris Becker,

01:42:36.880 I had matched up a little better with him.

01:42:38.660 He had some issues.

01:42:39.340 He had some issues, but for Sinner and Alcaraz against 98% of the people they play against,

01:42:48.020 they're better. So they're not going to lose unless something very strange happens. But when

01:42:53.960 they play each other, someone of an equal ability, then the mental side becomes, you know, a much

01:42:59.580 bigger part of it. So there's certain genetic differences between players that differentiate

01:43:03.840 the top couple from the rest and but i'll tell you what i've seen and this is part of our earlier

01:43:09.380 collegiate tennis discussion there's a lot more really good players say from 50 to 350 400 whereas

01:43:18.640 in my day you know if you're outside the top 120 150 you know the level went way down now there's

01:43:25.500 just a lot more really good players but the but the difference at the top is still to me mostly

01:43:31.400 physical and then uh what differentiates you know the the greats from the all-time greats

01:43:36.760 when you look at Federer and Nadal Djokovic yeah they were better players but they were also just

01:43:42.400 they learned how to recover I think from losses better than it because tennis is a brutal sport

01:43:48.840 you know you're on your own and when you lose some of these epic you know matches that I've

01:43:52.600 seen between these players and they they had the ability to just kind of brush it off and say okay

01:43:57.460 What can I do to, like, in other words, not let it simmer, that loss, but kind of go back to it.

01:44:01.640 And even in the moment, every point lost is a disappointment.

01:44:04.220 Every tiebreaker lost.

01:44:05.900 That's what Federer talked about in his famous speech.

01:44:07.880 It was a great one.

01:44:08.480 Mentioned speech, yeah.

01:44:08.920 Every set lost.

01:44:09.840 But I will say watching our kids play and watching their classmates play their respective sports

01:44:16.320 really does give me such a newfound respect for the kids who devote themselves to athletics

01:44:21.640 because it is, you put it all on the line.

01:44:24.280 And even on a team sport, like we watch our lacrosse team, there are huge individual moments.

01:44:30.040 So you have both the team aspect and you have the time when it's you.

01:44:33.340 You've got the ball.

01:44:34.460 You're approaching the net.

01:44:36.160 You're approaching the crease.

01:44:37.740 You're going to throw it or you're not.

01:44:38.820 You're going to have the glory or you're not.

01:44:40.820 And it can make or break a person.

01:44:43.260 It's a real opportunity to grow your spirit.

01:44:45.580 Well, this is why I'm very committed to trying to help college athletics because you are 100% right.

01:44:51.720 And we were lucky enough to play team sports.

01:44:53.740 You know, we played on our soccer team at school all the way through high school, my

01:44:57.320 brother and I.

01:44:58.260 Wow.

01:44:58.880 And we love, obviously love tennis because we like the individual part, but the team,

01:45:04.620 the camaraderie and being part of a team and learning resilience.

01:45:09.660 That's it.

01:45:10.120 You know, I think that's the biggest thing.

01:45:12.400 The disappointment, as you said, in tennis, you get it all the time and you get it in

01:45:16.300 the team sports.

01:45:16.960 You know, when you're a team and like, just think about it, you missed a shot at the buzzer,

01:45:20.880 you know, to win the game or to, to have your team lose the game. I mean, that hurts. Yeah.

01:45:24.860 You got to go home and deal with that and deal with, and with your teammates.

01:45:27.720 But it will develop a mental tenacity that will help you in all aspects of your life. One of the

01:45:32.940 many reasons that we need some reform, uh, USTA, we need some reform at the NCAA level. Patrick

01:45:39.040 McEnroe. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. We'll see you guys tomorrow.

01:45:44.680 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:45:50.880 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 20, 2026

What's Behind Massie's Big Loss, and Trump's Paxton Pick, with RCP, and Patrick McEnroe on International Players Invading College Tennis ｜ Ep. 1321

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